February 20, 2026 • 25 mins
Have you ever wondered why it is so hard to find the perfect red dot sight for your favorite handgun? In this episode, Stephen from Primary Arms explains how his team spent three years building a brand-new optic right here in the United States. He tells funny stories about how much work it takes to test these tools, including shooting thousands of rounds of ammo until the guns get too hot to touch!
Primary Arms wanted to make sure their new sight, called the HTX One, could fit on almost any gun without needing special screws. They even had to learn how to grow special crystals and make their own glass because no one else in the country could do it the right way. This new sight helps shooters find their target faster, even if they are holding the gun in a weird way. It is a very cool look at how a small idea in a barber shop turned into a big American success story. If you love cool gear and hearing about how things are made, you should check out this new optic today!
Links
Otis Technology: (00:20) otistec.com - Hosts are recording at their 40th-anniversary booth.
Primary Arms Optics: (00:48) primaryarmsoptics.com - Discussion of their new HTX One US-made optic.
Shot Show: (00:20) shotshow.org - The industry event where the podcast is being recorded.
Sig Sauer P365: (02:45) Reference to melting the frame during extreme 5,000-round testing.
Glock MOS: (18:40) Mentioned regarding the direct-mount capability of the HTX One.
Key Takeaways
US-Made Innovation: Primary Arms spent three years building a domestic supply chain in Houston to produce the HTX One, an optic featuring lenses and components previously unavailable in the American market.
Modular Chassis System: The HTX One uses an interchangeable chassis to fit multiple footprints like RMR and MOS, ending the frustration of incompatible screws and plates.
Ultra-Low Mounting: The design allows the optic to sit flush with the slide, enabling shooters to co-witness with stock-height iron sights and maintain natural muscle memory.
Brutal Durability Testing: Development involves firing up to 200,000 rounds annually, often heating firearms until triggers are untouchable and frames begin to melt.
Advanced LED Technology: The internal LED emitters require specialized crystalline growth in labs, a high-precision process vital for the optic's performance.
- The Vulcan Reticle: A patented 240 MOA outer circle acts as a visual guide to help shooters instantly find their center dot during awkward or high-stress presentations.Humble Origins: The company evolved from a small operation run out of a barber shop into a major industry innovator with products in over 1,100 retailers.
Key Words
HTX One, Primary Arms, Shot Show, Recoil Testing, Forbidden Popsicle, LED Crystals, Vulcan Reticle, Houston Texas, RMR Footprint, MOS System, Product Management, Domestic Manufacturing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna clap.
Because that's what they do.
I guess we gotta sing the audio.
Yes, yes, yes.
Alright, you want to startourselves?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts.
We are at the Otis TechnologyPodcast Booth at Chat Show 2025.
It's their 40th anniversary,which is super, super exciting.
And I'm here with Erica Chin, mysister from a different mystery.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Oh my gosh, it's been so much fun.
Yesterday we had, I mean, anamazing time here.
It went by really fast.
It did.
And I can't wait for todaybecause it's gonna be a good
day.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
And we're starting off great.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
We are already starting off on time, if nothing
else.
Yes, which is really a rarity.
Yes.
We're excited to talk to Stevenwith uh Primary Arms and hear
about all their new stuff.
They're very innovative.
Uh we had Uzge on last year, andum, she kind of told us about
the company and how manyproducts you you launched last
(01:05):
year.
We're so excited to hear aboutuh what you got new going on
this year.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
And tell us specifically like what you do in
the in the company.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
Sure.
So um I am the director ofproduct management now.
Um previously I was the directorof marketing, which was pretty
cool.
Um I like being more over on theproduct side.
That's kind of what I've done inthe industry with a couple of
different companies help developand kind of grow brands and
figure out which directionpeople need to go.
Good thing it's rugged.
Um so I get to like kind of takea look at market space, see what
(01:37):
customers are asking for, andthen guide our engineering team
in you know, whatever directionthat might be.
Um and probably the coolest partof the job is once we do get new
prototypes in and we get to kindof start that development
process and finalize and refine,I'm the one that gets to go out
and shoot them and use them andyou know let's tweak this.
Let's oh that's such a hard job.
(01:57):
It's super rough, super rough.
How many, how many roundsusually?
Um depends on the optic.
I average about 150, 200,000rounds a year now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
So that's that's a lot of trigger time.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Recoil testing, everybody's like, oh man, it's
so cool you get to go to therange and recoil test.
Like recoil testing is one ofthe most miserable things you
can do in the year.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
We did talk to someone yesterday about that,
that it's just it even the ideaof so many rounds, just like
trigger pulling, justeverything, your whole all time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
Everybody's had that nightmare, right?
Where you're you're trying toshoot something and you're
squeezing and squeezing andcan't pull the trigger.
Like when you're doing recoiltesting, we we developed this
little micro reflex a couple ofyears ago.
Like, cool, we need to put 5,000rounds on it on this 365.
Like, neat.
All right, go to the range.
Oh me.
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Just you, Steve.
Just you.
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Like melting frames, and it's the guns get so hot you
can't touch the trigger anymorebecause the trigger's actually
gotten hot to the point whereyou can't touch it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Which I I don't think a lot of people realize.
The person I don't remember,it's all a blur, who we were
speaking to yesterday that hadsaid that they had like an Nick
uh staccato.
Staccato that literally when heshoots and tests things, there's
an air conditioning unit that heputs the firearm next to because
it's got to cool down.
And I don't think averageshooters or consumers think
about the testing that it goesthrough and just the natural
(03:21):
things that happen, it's gonnaget hot.
SPEAKER_03 (03:23):
Oh, they they get real hot.
There's everybody knows theforbidden popsicle, but the uh
the forbidden trigger shoe.
When you put enough nine milthrough a 365 to get that
trigger shoe smoking on it, it'sthat's a lot of a lot of round
zone range.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Until your arms fall off.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
Yeah, you can always tell the the recoil test guys
are the because they're they'reforearmed on their dominant
side, it's just absolutelymassive because they're just
sitting there squeezing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
I'm picturing like a cartoon character from
Spongebob.
So when you guys go through theproduct development stage,
what's like the average timelinethat it takes to, you know, went
from conception of the idea toactually launching the product?
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
Usually it's anywhere from, you know, if
we're really cooking on it, it'sabout a year to 18 months worth
of development time.
Most stuff takes about twoyears, and some of the really
complex stuff.
Um, like we've got, I thinkthere's six projects we're
working on now that are goinginto their or well into their
(04:25):
third year by now.
Uh probably hit fourth.
So it it all depends on thecomplexity of the project.
Like our new HTX1, that was thatwas a three-year project from
ideation to release a CHAT showthis year.
SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Wow.
And how many phases does thatroughly include?
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Uh a lot.
Um just like HTX, because it'sit's we taught ourselves how to
make stuff in the US with HTX.
So just the housing alone.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And that's a big learning curve.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Yeah, because it it especially for this thing, it
didn't exist.
We can't call up like one-800glass and hey, we need you to
grind a lens for us becausethere isn't the technology or
the labor in the United Statesto build what we needed for
that.
So we had to this whole uhdomestic supply chain, we had to
build that from the ground up,and then you can't just do it
(05:14):
once because then you're puttingall your eggs in one basket.
You've got to do it twice so youhave redundancy.
So build two independent USsupply chains and then find
glass partners and glassmanufacturers that A have the
equipment, the ability to dowhat you need, and then are
willing to learn with you tomake what you need to make.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Which is fascinating to me in in so many levels, but
the idea that a company is like,hey, we believe in this idea,
it's never been done before, butwe we believe that we can do it,
and we're gonna take the massiveinvestment to do what it takes
to get there.
It's like building the spaceshuttle.
Like, yeah, we think we can getto the moon, but we're not
really sure, but we're gonnatry.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna throw all these parts at
it and just push a button andhopefully it doesn't go boom.
We'll see.
It's uh yeah, development,development time and the um, you
know, the time we put into itand then the cost to develop as
well.
We moved into a new buildingabout three years ago for
optics, and it we moved in therewith a sole purpose of standing
(06:12):
up US manufacturing.
So as we moved in, we startedbuilding out clean rooms and
assembly areas, and um, thatwhole thing was designed for
this product.
So for the last three years,it's just been pulling cash out
of the account for that buildingbecause we weren't producing in
it, and now that we are likefinally we can start recouping
some of that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
But that's amazing, and the amount of trial and
error because it's not like whenyou do something brand new that
it's gonna work the first time.
So it's like you think you dosomething and you're like, oh,
this didn't work, we gotta tweakthis or that didn't work at all.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
Yeah, what what looks good on paper and what
actually works are two verydifferent things.
And I feel bad our engineeringteam are some of the smartest
dudes I've ever met.
It's a tight crew and they'reextremely good at what they do.
Um, Bert, who's our seniordirector of engineering, he's
kind of the mad scientist wholike, hey, let's make this
really cool thing, and he doesall the initial design work, and
(07:08):
then the rest of the team has tofigure out how to build that.
And you just have a lot ofredesign into building that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Yeah, I'm thinking of I I know I keep bringing up
these analogies, but Apollo 13where he's like, we need this to
go into this.
And the team's like, all right.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
A and I have B, we need these things to make C, and
it needs to work right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
Because design engineers are really good at
designing stuff, but they'regenerally not experts in
manufacturing.
It's different sides of thebrain.
Yeah, you can you can designsomething that's awesome and it
will be great, but it isimpossible to manufacture.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's called blue sky design.
Where you're like, this soundsgreat, but the reality of it
actually functioning or gettingit there is not a thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:50):
It is.
I mean, just the tolerancesalone.
So the housing on this thing,the first time we sent this out
to bid, we had six shops comeback to us and just like, no,
we're good.
We're not gonna try it.
Um, and then there is a coupleof shops which were a little
nicer that said, well, we'llgive it a shot.
And then, you know, a month intoit, six weeks, two months into
(08:12):
it, when they're trying tomachine one, they come back
like, okay, first of all, wedon't have the labor to do this,
or our machines aren't capableof the stalwart, or we just
don't want to because it's sucha pain in the neck.
So they'll come back and shut usdown then.
So you kind of get excited,like, yeah, somebody's gonna
make it, and you see the outsidecut, and that's cool, but that's
not the hard part.
(08:33):
So then they come at you laterwhen you think you got the one,
and like, yeah, no, no, we'renot doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
Wow, but an emotional roller coaster.
Oh, it's it's and a create acreative emotional roller
coaster.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
It's it is.
You get excited, like, and thenyou come up with a solution,
you're like, all right, sweet,so we got this, so yeah, we can
make that, and then you get onebuilt, and for a while it was,
I'm sure our engineering teamhated giving them to me to like,
hey, yo, I need a sample to gomake video, and I gotta go out
to the range and run this thing.
And I'd come back from therange, and you could see them
all like, please don't come in,please don't come in.
I come in like, yo, so I brokethis and this and this.
(09:07):
We need to.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
And it's like in pieces in your hand.
Here you go.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
It's it's such a yeah, such an emotional roller
coaster.
Go out to the range andsomething stops working on it
and go back and fix it.
But that the team is really,really good at like figuring out
what went wrong in there, why itwent wrong, and how to fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:27):
And uh yeah, they've been able to do some incredible
stuff.
So that's phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
So just tell us about this.
Like, why is it such a big dealfor primary arms to have this
optic?
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Well, I mean, what's different?
Marshall started off sellingoptics kind of through ARV and
out of the back of his barbershop.
And he uh they started off likeon ARVOM and he's telling
people, you know, you don't haveto spend this ridiculous amount
of money to get a good dotthat'll do what you need it to
(09:59):
do.
You can get good quality forgood cost.
And somebody's basically toldhim, like, okay, well, let's see
you do it.
So he's like, okay, and he didit.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Came on, hold my beer.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Yeah, he went out and started off with the first
red dot and got him in, sold alot of them on ARPCOM, sold a
bunch um, you know, physicallythrough his his barbershop, kind
of in the back there, shippedthem all out of there, and then
it grew, moved into a location,and he started PA.com where they
sold all kinds of stuff as wellas optics.
And then, you know, moving overto primary arms optics, a lot of
(10:31):
it was overseas manufacturingmarkets.
So we'd go over to Philippines,China, Japan, uh meet up with
people like, hey, we have anidea for this thing.
Do you guys think you couldbuild it?
Um kind of leaning on theirengineers a little bit as well
as ours.
And then, you know, we grew somemore, brought our engineers in,
like, okay, this is what we wantyou to build, this is how we
(10:52):
want you to build it.
And uh you know, through qualitycontrol and making sure that the
assembly processes were right,we were able to kind of bump
that quality level up to thenext step and next step, and
kept growing like that, and likefinally it was uh nobody makes
this thing here, this is anawesome idea.
We don't want to send itoverseas, we want to make it
(11:13):
ourselves.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
So this is completely made in the USA.
SPEAKER_03 (11:17):
It is, it is.
They're the only there's part ofone component that isn't, and it
is the crystal on the LED.
So um LEDs, they're they don'thave glass on them, it's not
plastic.
You actually have to grow thecrystals for the LED.
Wow.
There's two places in the worldthat do that.
One's in Germany, one's inChina.
(11:37):
So we're growing our crystals inGermany, and then we're potting
and soldering them here tocomplete assembly on them, and
then we everything else is US.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
So my mind is blown.
You my mouth is hanging open.
Like growing crystals, I feellike I'm a smart person, but
right now I feel really dumb.
Yeah, you're growing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
I've never heard of growing crystals either.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
There's there's some other people in the States that
do it.
That's not the kind of crystalswe need.
I was just gonna say that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
I've heard of making crystal meth.
SPEAKER_03 (12:05):
Yeah, there's there's there's those guys um
slightly different tolerancevariations and chemical
compositions.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
They use cardboard tubes.
SPEAKER_03 (12:13):
Yeah, those bathtubs or something like that.
Didn't quite have that level ofprecision with the buckets.
Um so if you've ever like whenyou were a kid did the like rock
candy thing.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
I was just oh yeah, or the like the science kits,
like because nerd used to getthe like grow girl crystals and
like yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
We used to do that all the time.
I was I was a huge science nerdwhen I was a kid too, so it was
still ham.
Like I do ham radio, and everytime somebody's like, really,
you do that?
Like, what are you 90?
Like, no, dude, it's cool.
Super cool.
I don't need a cell phone aslong as the other person I want
to talk to has a radio.
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
You should get one.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
But yeah, it's a very similar process.
So you you actually grow thecrystal in the shape that you
want your LED to be.
And um, yeah, it's it's a very,very neat process to do.
But like I said, there's onlytwo places in the world that do
it.
So we literally can't have thatdone in the United States.
It's it would take years todevelop the infrastructure to be
(13:12):
able to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah.
That's that's my brain's alittle broke.
SPEAKER_03 (13:18):
Yeah.
We don't only make red dots, wegrow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
I know.
So now every time I see an LED,I'm like, where did this grow?
Can I wear it on a necklace?
SPEAKER_03 (13:31):
You could, they could grow those things big.
Someone like, have you ever seenlike the big um single point um
like studio lights?
Yeah, it's a big thing.
We have one so like each one ofthose little LEDs is grown.
Um the big ones that have like aginormous center emitter.
That is a crystal that's grown.
So it's yeah, it's you can makea big.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
I am going to fall down a rabbit hole later on
YouTube.
Oh my gosh, me too.
I want to grow crystals.
Me too.
SPEAKER_03 (13:57):
That's good.
Just make sure, make sure youyou do the cool one.
SPEAKER_01 (14:01):
But we're not here next year's game.
You don't know what happened tous.
So what happened to Jason Air?
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
Not the one you grow in your microwave.
unknown (14:12):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
Did you guys have that at Industry Day this past
week?
SPEAKER_03 (14:20):
We did not.
Okay.
Um, these have been we've had acouple of these kind of like
pocket samples at Shot Show forthe last couple years.
There's some um governmentcustomers that had interest in
it, so we were able to kind ofshow and tell with those guys,
and we've been working with afew different agencies um on uh
what their requirements are andwhat they need.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
So fitting their specs in that world.
SPEAKER_03 (14:45):
Um but outside of that, this thing's been really
close to the chest.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
So have they hit the market?
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
Uh they are at they're available for pre-order
at Select Dealers now.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:58):
And the first commercial units of these will
be shipping again in verylimited quantities uh starting
in April.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
So exciting.
Which is a whole other part ofthe process, is that you go
through two, three years ofproduct development, but then
you enter the actual marketingphase of packaging, how to
explain the product,advertising, getting it to
retailers.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
Especially with all the unique features in this
thing, like it's not just apistol reflex, it's not like
everybody else is out there.
There's some features in thisthat make this extremely unique,
and then teaching people, notonly like on the industry side
how we sell it to dealers, butteaching the dealers to explain
it to their customers so theyunderstand what it does and what
(15:42):
the advantages of the systemsare.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
Can can you talk a little bit about what those are?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
So I anybody that knows me or has had like a
single meeting with me knowsthat the one thing that I hate
more than anything else isfootprints and screws.
Because screw thread hitches anddiameters, everybody does
whatever they want and nobodyfollows a blueprint, which I
(16:10):
cannot stand.
So you have companies like,yeah, we've got a doctor cut on
our gun.
Like, cool, and then you haveyour doctor footprinted optic
and you go to throw that on thegun and it doesn't fit.
Like, okay, you don't have adoctor cut on your gun.
You thought this optic that youmodeled your cut after was a
doctor, it's actually 4,000shorter than a blueprinted
doctor cut, and you've cut10,000 slides too short to fit
(16:33):
anybody else's dot.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Mic drop.
SPEAKER_03 (16:35):
Yep, boom.
Good for you.
I hate you.
We will re-modify our dots so itfits.
And then you have othercompanies like we've got a RMR
cut on our thing, so we'll fitany RMR.
So we make an RMR footprintoptic, and then you get a bunch
of like customer calls comingin, like, yo, the screws don't
fit and nothing works, and thescrews that do fit the thing
(16:57):
don't fit in the holes in thedot, and because they didn't
follow the brute pin for thescrews, so they use their own
thing, or they change the threadpitch because why not?
So then that's why, like, nowwhen you buy a dot, you have a
packet of like 40 sets ofscrews, and then you gotta play
like magic numbers and figureout which screw goes in your gun
to mount all your stuff up.
Um so all that being said, likepreviously you had to kind of
(17:23):
fit your gun to the dot that youwanted.
So if you wanted something fromaimpoint or you wanted something
from Trigicon or you wantedsomething, whatever you wanted,
you had to make sure that yourgun had that cut to accept that
optic.
Um we fit our optic to your gun.
So it's not like looking at thebottom of this, there's no
(17:44):
defined footprint on it.
Can I touch it?
You sure can.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
After hours, after hours.
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
We're gonna do it after hours.
I wasn't gonna say it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
And it's only 826.
SPEAKER_03 (18:04):
Perfect way to start off shot day too.
Um so yeah, on there there'sthere's no defined footprint.
It doesn't really like, oh well,this will obviously go on RMR,
this will obviously go in MOS,whatever it is.
Um we developed a chassissystem.
So the chassis will actuallychange the footprint of the
optic to fit whatever cut youhave.
(18:24):
Uh the three that come with iton initial release are RMR A,
which is the traditional likeslap cut RMR that everybody has.
There's RMR B, which is morelike the Zev style that has like
the little raised-threadedbosses.
And then we've got the MOScompatible chassis as well.
So it'll direct mount toanything with RMR, which is
(18:46):
pretty much 95% of the guns thatare out there have some type of
plate or something for RMR.
Um, and then directly to uh theGlock MOS system as well.
Um and by doing that, it doesn'tmatter, you know, you're a
die-in-the-wool Glock shootertoday, but maybe in two years
you decide to switch over toSmith or you want to go over to
(19:08):
FN or you want to go over toCanak or whatever you want to
change to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
You can take it with you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:13):
Yeah, you can take it with you.
You don't have another new dotand another new footprint, and
it doesn't lock you into asingle footprint.
So just change the chassis, man,you can put it on whatever you
want.
Um, it also allows us to mountlower than any other enclosed
reflex out there as well.
So, like this thing on a GlockMOS, for example, the bottom of
(19:33):
the window sits flush with thetop of the slide.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah, because often mounts then just have you sit
higher and higher.
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
You have a really weird hideover bore problem on a
pistol, which you know wasn'treally a thing until recently.
Right.
And then you've also got um thatadjusted sight picture.
So you see a lot of people thathave dots, even when they're
kind of used to shooting, ifthey're they're good shooters,
they know the feel of their gun,they'll go present, and then you
(20:08):
see them pick their head up sothey can get the window.
Yes.
And it's unnatural for them, andit's more difficult to kind of
get that.
So they lose the dot in thewindow.
Um, they've got to putsuppressor height sights on, so
that's gonna pick them up aswell.
Um, with these, you canco-witness with stock height
sights, and it's a full sightpicture co-witness as well.
It's not like that's the liverof the front sight blue.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
I think that's the best way I've heard it explained
because when we were at IndustryDay, I was having a conversation
with somebody who isn't reallywell experienced with shooting
red dot.
And he was like, you know, thisis hard.
I was like, because I'm used toshooting iron sights.
Like I and red dot for me, Ijust can't get it down.
But the way that you explainedit makes perfect sense because
you're just you're not used toit.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
It's that muscle memory of getting set up and
yeah, you're going to those flatirons and then you're you're a
quarter inch below that window,so you've got to pick your whole
head up, move up.
But most of the time, peopledon't pick their head up, they
move the gun down, and when theydo that, they lead with a muzzle
so the dot will flash throughthe window and they get lost
again.
You are so smart.
You know what I like about this?
(21:09):
I shoot a lot of guns.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
I really like that the dot is uh very vibrant, but
it's not so big that I feel likeit's gonna cover a target.
SPEAKER_03 (21:18):
Yeah, it's it's technically it's a 3.86 MOA dot.
We call it 4 MOA because for allintents and purposes, it's 4
MOA.
Um we had a lot of customerfeedback.
They're like, oh, you shouldhave gone with one MOA, you
should have gone with two MOA,you should have gone with then
you should have built it.
Well, I can I can take this oneand show it to somebody and
(21:39):
they'll be like, dude, that'sit's a four MOA, way too big.
And I'll take another oneexactly the same dot size.
Yeah.
And be like, well, this is ourtwo MOA version and give it to
them like way better.
Oh yeah.
That's what I'm talking about.
Like, there's your dot.
Like my guy marketing.
Yep.
It's as big as you want it tobe.
(21:59):
Okay.
After hours.
Yes.
Another unique thing about thereticle that we're putting in
this, so we've got two versionsof it.
There's the dot only, which issuper complicated.
It's a dot.
And then there's our Vulcanreticle.
So anybody who's familiar withour Vulcan Reticle will know
it's a very large outer circlewith that same aiming point.
(22:20):
Like in this one, it is a 240MOA outer circle, well, 238 MOA
outer circle, 240.
And as long as you present thegun right, you can't see it.
It falls outside of the field ofview, so all you're looking at
is a dot.
But bad grip out of the holster,you're shooting with your
support hand, you're shootingaround a barricade, something
weird under a car, somethinglike that, where you would
(22:42):
traditionally lose that dot, youcan see the circle, and
hopefully most of us, dependingon which public education system
you're raised in, know how tofind the center of a circle.
So you know which way to drivethat gun to get it to center, so
you're not sitting there likefishing for that dot.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Right.
Yeah.
I and I do like that.
Yeah, I do like that.
Stephen, so if somebody wants toum get a hold of primary arms,
they want an optic like this,they want to be on the wait
list, they want to give money.
Uh, you know, take my money,give me a red dot when it comes
out.
How do they how do they findthat?
SPEAKER_03 (23:18):
For the money part, um, I've got a Zell phone number
that I'm happy to hand out.
Um, it's they can uh they canhit us up on any of our social
medias.
That's the best way to find outabout new stuff.
We pump it through social first.
Um so Instagram, uh I was gonnasay Twitter, it's not Twitter
anymore.
X.
X.
Um Facebook.
(23:39):
I don't know if we're banned onthat or not.
It's it depends on the day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Give it a few months.
IG.
We might be back.
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (23:46):
We'll see.
Hopefully.
Fingers crossed, we can dowhatever we want on X.
But um yeah, hit us up on oursocial media.
So Primary Arms Optics is ourhandle on everything.
Um you can go to our website,primaryarmsoptics.com.
Everybody knows uh the dot comside, which is actually a
customer of ours.
So um PA.com is a greatcustomer.
You can go find stuff on theirsor any of our other dealers
(24:08):
across the country as well.
So um we're I think we'recurrently in 1100 retailers or
something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Sweet.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Um, yeah, a lot of dudes out there.
If uh your favorite local gunshop doesn't have it, tell them
they need to.
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for for comingand and showing us the new
product uh product with uhprimary arms as well.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
And we'll gladly have you on again anytime you
guys come out with anotherproduct.
Yeah, because I want to talkabout the process again.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
And and I love this because it's made in the USA,
and um, except for that crystal,but um we'll supply the free.
We'll get our own crystalcompany going.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
And then we can be able to supply primary arms.
I think this is a good idea.
I think that's cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
Anyway, I think that it is I mean amazing that you
guys actually start to finishpretty much um build this in the
USA.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
Yeah, that's that's the that's its name take.
So HTX, Houston, Texas.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_03 (25:01):
Um we're super proud of it and we're glad we could
bring it out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
As you guys should be.
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (25:06):
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:08):
Thank you.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonna clap.
Because that's what they do.
I guess we gotta sing the audio.
Yes, yes, yes.
Alright, you want to startourselves?
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts.
We are at the Otis TechnologyPodcast Booth at Chat Show 2025.
It's their 40th anniversary,which is super, super exciting.
And I'm here with Erica Chin, mysister from a different mystery.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
Oh my gosh, it's been so much fun.
Yesterday we had, I mean, anamazing time here.
It went by really fast.
It did.
And I can't wait for todaybecause it's gonna be a good
day.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
And we're starting off great.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
We are already starting off on time, if nothing
else.
Yes, which is really a rarity.
Yes.
We're excited to talk to Stevenwith uh Primary Arms and hear
about all their new stuff.
They're very innovative.
Uh we had Uzge on last year, andum, she kind of told us about
the company and how manyproducts you you launched last
(01:05):
year.
We're so excited to hear aboutuh what you got new going on
this year.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
And tell us specifically like what you do in
the in the company.
SPEAKER_03 (01:13):
Sure.
So um I am the director ofproduct management now.
Um previously I was the directorof marketing, which was pretty
cool.
Um I like being more over on theproduct side.
That's kind of what I've done inthe industry with a couple of
different companies help developand kind of grow brands and
figure out which directionpeople need to go.
Good thing it's rugged.
Um so I get to like kind of takea look at market space, see what
(01:37):
customers are asking for, andthen guide our engineering team
in you know, whatever directionthat might be.
Um and probably the coolest partof the job is once we do get new
prototypes in and we get to kindof start that development
process and finalize and refine,I'm the one that gets to go out
and shoot them and use them andyou know let's tweak this.
Let's oh that's such a hard job.
(01:57):
It's super rough, super rough.
How many, how many roundsusually?
Um depends on the optic.
I average about 150, 200,000rounds a year now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
So that's that's a lot of trigger time.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Yes, it is.
Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Recoil testing, everybody's like, oh man, it's
so cool you get to go to therange and recoil test.
Like recoil testing is one ofthe most miserable things you
can do in the year.
SPEAKER_01 (02:21):
We did talk to someone yesterday about that,
that it's just it even the ideaof so many rounds, just like
trigger pulling, justeverything, your whole all time.
SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
Everybody's had that nightmare, right?
Where you're you're trying toshoot something and you're
squeezing and squeezing andcan't pull the trigger.
Like when you're doing recoiltesting, we we developed this
little micro reflex a couple ofyears ago.
Like, cool, we need to put 5,000rounds on it on this 365.
Like, neat.
All right, go to the range.
Oh me.
SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Just you, Steve.
Just you.
SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Like melting frames, and it's the guns get so hot you
can't touch the trigger anymorebecause the trigger's actually
gotten hot to the point whereyou can't touch it.
SPEAKER_01 (02:59):
Which I I don't think a lot of people realize.
The person I don't remember,it's all a blur, who we were
speaking to yesterday that hadsaid that they had like an Nick
uh staccato.
Staccato that literally when heshoots and tests things, there's
an air conditioning unit that heputs the firearm next to because
it's got to cool down.
And I don't think averageshooters or consumers think
about the testing that it goesthrough and just the natural
(03:21):
things that happen, it's gonnaget hot.
SPEAKER_03 (03:23):
Oh, they they get real hot.
There's everybody knows theforbidden popsicle, but the uh
the forbidden trigger shoe.
When you put enough nine milthrough a 365 to get that
trigger shoe smoking on it, it'sthat's a lot of a lot of round
zone range.
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
Until your arms fall off.
SPEAKER_03 (03:37):
Yeah, you can always tell the the recoil test guys
are the because they're they'reforearmed on their dominant
side, it's just absolutelymassive because they're just
sitting there squeezing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
I'm picturing like a cartoon character from
Spongebob.
So when you guys go through theproduct development stage,
what's like the average timelinethat it takes to, you know, went
from conception of the idea toactually launching the product?
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
Usually it's anywhere from, you know, if
we're really cooking on it, it'sabout a year to 18 months worth
of development time.
Most stuff takes about twoyears, and some of the really
complex stuff.
Um, like we've got, I thinkthere's six projects we're
working on now that are goinginto their or well into their
(04:25):
third year by now.
Uh probably hit fourth.
So it it all depends on thecomplexity of the project.
Like our new HTX1, that was thatwas a three-year project from
ideation to release a CHAT showthis year.
SPEAKER_01 (04:37):
Wow.
And how many phases does thatroughly include?
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Uh a lot.
Um just like HTX, because it'sit's we taught ourselves how to
make stuff in the US with HTX.
So just the housing alone.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And that's a big learning curve.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Yeah, because it it especially for this thing, it
didn't exist.
We can't call up like one-800glass and hey, we need you to
grind a lens for us becausethere isn't the technology or
the labor in the United Statesto build what we needed for
that.
So we had to this whole uhdomestic supply chain, we had to
build that from the ground up,and then you can't just do it
(05:14):
once because then you're puttingall your eggs in one basket.
You've got to do it twice so youhave redundancy.
So build two independent USsupply chains and then find
glass partners and glassmanufacturers that A have the
equipment, the ability to dowhat you need, and then are
willing to learn with you tomake what you need to make.
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Which is fascinating to me in in so many levels, but
the idea that a company is like,hey, we believe in this idea,
it's never been done before, butwe we believe that we can do it,
and we're gonna take the massiveinvestment to do what it takes
to get there.
It's like building the spaceshuttle.
Like, yeah, we think we can getto the moon, but we're not
really sure, but we're gonnatry.
SPEAKER_03 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna throw all these parts at
it and just push a button andhopefully it doesn't go boom.
We'll see.
It's uh yeah, development,development time and the um, you
know, the time we put into itand then the cost to develop as
well.
We moved into a new buildingabout three years ago for
optics, and it we moved in therewith a sole purpose of standing
(06:12):
up US manufacturing.
So as we moved in, we startedbuilding out clean rooms and
assembly areas, and um, thatwhole thing was designed for
this product.
So for the last three years,it's just been pulling cash out
of the account for that buildingbecause we weren't producing in
it, and now that we are likefinally we can start recouping
some of that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:32):
But that's amazing, and the amount of trial and
error because it's not like whenyou do something brand new that
it's gonna work the first time.
So it's like you think you dosomething and you're like, oh,
this didn't work, we gotta tweakthis or that didn't work at all.
SPEAKER_03 (06:46):
Yeah, what what looks good on paper and what
actually works are two verydifferent things.
And I feel bad our engineeringteam are some of the smartest
dudes I've ever met.
It's a tight crew and they'reextremely good at what they do.
Um, Bert, who's our seniordirector of engineering, he's
kind of the mad scientist wholike, hey, let's make this
really cool thing, and he doesall the initial design work, and
(07:08):
then the rest of the team has tofigure out how to build that.
And you just have a lot ofredesign into building that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Yeah, I'm thinking of I I know I keep bringing up
these analogies, but Apollo 13where he's like, we need this to
go into this.
And the team's like, all right.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
A and I have B, we need these things to make C, and
it needs to work right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
Because design engineers are really good at
designing stuff, but they'regenerally not experts in
manufacturing.
It's different sides of thebrain.
Yeah, you can you can designsomething that's awesome and it
will be great, but it isimpossible to manufacture.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
It's called blue sky design.
Where you're like, this soundsgreat, but the reality of it
actually functioning or gettingit there is not a thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:50):
It is.
I mean, just the tolerancesalone.
So the housing on this thing,the first time we sent this out
to bid, we had six shops comeback to us and just like, no,
we're good.
We're not gonna try it.
Um, and then there is a coupleof shops which were a little
nicer that said, well, we'llgive it a shot.
And then, you know, a month intoit, six weeks, two months into
(08:12):
it, when they're trying tomachine one, they come back
like, okay, first of all, wedon't have the labor to do this,
or our machines aren't capableof the stalwart, or we just
don't want to because it's sucha pain in the neck.
So they'll come back and shut usdown then.
So you kind of get excited,like, yeah, somebody's gonna
make it, and you see the outsidecut, and that's cool, but that's
not the hard part.
(08:33):
So then they come at you laterwhen you think you got the one,
and like, yeah, no, no, we'renot doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
Wow, but an emotional roller coaster.
Oh, it's it's and a create acreative emotional roller
coaster.
SPEAKER_03 (08:44):
It's it is.
You get excited, like, and thenyou come up with a solution,
you're like, all right, sweet,so we got this, so yeah, we can
make that, and then you get onebuilt, and for a while it was,
I'm sure our engineering teamhated giving them to me to like,
hey, yo, I need a sample to gomake video, and I gotta go out
to the range and run this thing.
And I'd come back from therange, and you could see them
all like, please don't come in,please don't come in.
I come in like, yo, so I brokethis and this and this.
(09:07):
We need to.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
And it's like in pieces in your hand.
Here you go.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
It's it's such a yeah, such an emotional roller
coaster.
Go out to the range andsomething stops working on it
and go back and fix it.
But that the team is really,really good at like figuring out
what went wrong in there, why itwent wrong, and how to fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:27):
And uh yeah, they've been able to do some incredible
stuff.
So that's phenomenal.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
So just tell us about this.
Like, why is it such a big dealfor primary arms to have this
optic?
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Well, I mean, what's different?
Marshall started off sellingoptics kind of through ARV and
out of the back of his barbershop.
And he uh they started off likeon ARVOM and he's telling
people, you know, you don't haveto spend this ridiculous amount
of money to get a good dotthat'll do what you need it to
(09:59):
do.
You can get good quality forgood cost.
And somebody's basically toldhim, like, okay, well, let's see
you do it.
So he's like, okay, and he didit.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Came on, hold my beer.
SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
Yeah, he went out and started off with the first
red dot and got him in, sold alot of them on ARPCOM, sold a
bunch um, you know, physicallythrough his his barbershop, kind
of in the back there, shippedthem all out of there, and then
it grew, moved into a location,and he started PA.com where they
sold all kinds of stuff as wellas optics.
And then, you know, moving overto primary arms optics, a lot of
(10:31):
it was overseas manufacturingmarkets.
So we'd go over to Philippines,China, Japan, uh meet up with
people like, hey, we have anidea for this thing.
Do you guys think you couldbuild it?
Um kind of leaning on theirengineers a little bit as well
as ours.
And then, you know, we grew somemore, brought our engineers in,
like, okay, this is what we wantyou to build, this is how we
(10:52):
want you to build it.
And uh you know, through qualitycontrol and making sure that the
assembly processes were right,we were able to kind of bump
that quality level up to thenext step and next step, and
kept growing like that, and likefinally it was uh nobody makes
this thing here, this is anawesome idea.
We don't want to send itoverseas, we want to make it
(11:13):
ourselves.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
So this is completely made in the USA.
SPEAKER_03 (11:17):
It is, it is.
They're the only there's part ofone component that isn't, and it
is the crystal on the LED.
So um LEDs, they're they don'thave glass on them, it's not
plastic.
You actually have to grow thecrystals for the LED.
Wow.
There's two places in the worldthat do that.
One's in Germany, one's inChina.
(11:37):
So we're growing our crystals inGermany, and then we're potting
and soldering them here tocomplete assembly on them, and
then we everything else is US.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
So my mind is blown.
You my mouth is hanging open.
Like growing crystals, I feellike I'm a smart person, but
right now I feel really dumb.
Yeah, you're growing.
SPEAKER_00 (11:54):
I've never heard of growing crystals either.
SPEAKER_03 (11:57):
There's there's some other people in the States that
do it.
That's not the kind of crystalswe need.
I was just gonna say that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:03):
I've heard of making crystal meth.
SPEAKER_03 (12:05):
Yeah, there's there's there's those guys um
slightly different tolerancevariations and chemical
compositions.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
They use cardboard tubes.
SPEAKER_03 (12:13):
Yeah, those bathtubs or something like that.
Didn't quite have that level ofprecision with the buckets.
Um so if you've ever like whenyou were a kid did the like rock
candy thing.
SPEAKER_01 (12:24):
I was just oh yeah, or the like the science kits,
like because nerd used to getthe like grow girl crystals and
like yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:32):
We used to do that all the time.
I was I was a huge science nerdwhen I was a kid too, so it was
still ham.
Like I do ham radio, and everytime somebody's like, really,
you do that?
Like, what are you 90?
Like, no, dude, it's cool.
Super cool.
I don't need a cell phone aslong as the other person I want
to talk to has a radio.
How about that?
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
You should get one.
SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
But yeah, it's a very similar process.
So you you actually grow thecrystal in the shape that you
want your LED to be.
And um, yeah, it's it's a very,very neat process to do.
But like I said, there's onlytwo places in the world that do
it.
So we literally can't have thatdone in the United States.
It's it would take years todevelop the infrastructure to be
(13:12):
able to do that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah.
That's that's my brain's alittle broke.
SPEAKER_03 (13:18):
Yeah.
We don't only make red dots, wegrow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
I know.
So now every time I see an LED,I'm like, where did this grow?
Can I wear it on a necklace?
SPEAKER_03 (13:31):
You could, they could grow those things big.
Someone like, have you ever seenlike the big um single point um
like studio lights?
Yeah, it's a big thing.
We have one so like each one ofthose little LEDs is grown.
Um the big ones that have like aginormous center emitter.
That is a crystal that's grown.
So it's yeah, it's you can makea big.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
I am going to fall down a rabbit hole later on
YouTube.
Oh my gosh, me too.
I want to grow crystals.
Me too.
SPEAKER_03 (13:57):
That's good.
Just make sure, make sure youyou do the cool one.
SPEAKER_01 (14:01):
But we're not here next year's game.
You don't know what happened tous.
So what happened to Jason Air?
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
Not the one you grow in your microwave.
unknown (14:12):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
Did you guys have that at Industry Day this past
week?
SPEAKER_03 (14:20):
We did not.
Okay.
Um, these have been we've had acouple of these kind of like
pocket samples at Shot Show forthe last couple years.
There's some um governmentcustomers that had interest in
it, so we were able to kind ofshow and tell with those guys,
and we've been working with afew different agencies um on uh
what their requirements are andwhat they need.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
So fitting their specs in that world.
SPEAKER_03 (14:45):
Um but outside of that, this thing's been really
close to the chest.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
So have they hit the market?
SPEAKER_03 (14:52):
Uh they are at they're available for pre-order
at Select Dealers now.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03 (14:58):
And the first commercial units of these will
be shipping again in verylimited quantities uh starting
in April.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
So exciting.
Which is a whole other part ofthe process, is that you go
through two, three years ofproduct development, but then
you enter the actual marketingphase of packaging, how to
explain the product,advertising, getting it to
retailers.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
Especially with all the unique features in this
thing, like it's not just apistol reflex, it's not like
everybody else is out there.
There's some features in thisthat make this extremely unique,
and then teaching people, notonly like on the industry side
how we sell it to dealers, butteaching the dealers to explain
it to their customers so theyunderstand what it does and what
(15:42):
the advantages of the systemsare.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
Can can you talk a little bit about what those are?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
So I anybody that knows me or has had like a
single meeting with me knowsthat the one thing that I hate
more than anything else isfootprints and screws.
Because screw thread hitches anddiameters, everybody does
whatever they want and nobodyfollows a blueprint, which I
(16:10):
cannot stand.
So you have companies like,yeah, we've got a doctor cut on
our gun.
Like, cool, and then you haveyour doctor footprinted optic
and you go to throw that on thegun and it doesn't fit.
Like, okay, you don't have adoctor cut on your gun.
You thought this optic that youmodeled your cut after was a
doctor, it's actually 4,000shorter than a blueprinted
doctor cut, and you've cut10,000 slides too short to fit
(16:33):
anybody else's dot.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Mic drop.
SPEAKER_03 (16:35):
Yep, boom.
Good for you.
I hate you.
We will re-modify our dots so itfits.
And then you have othercompanies like we've got a RMR
cut on our thing, so we'll fitany RMR.
So we make an RMR footprintoptic, and then you get a bunch
of like customer calls comingin, like, yo, the screws don't
fit and nothing works, and thescrews that do fit the thing
(16:57):
don't fit in the holes in thedot, and because they didn't
follow the brute pin for thescrews, so they use their own
thing, or they change the threadpitch because why not?
So then that's why, like, nowwhen you buy a dot, you have a
packet of like 40 sets ofscrews, and then you gotta play
like magic numbers and figureout which screw goes in your gun
to mount all your stuff up.
Um so all that being said, likepreviously you had to kind of
(17:23):
fit your gun to the dot that youwanted.
So if you wanted something fromaimpoint or you wanted something
from Trigicon or you wantedsomething, whatever you wanted,
you had to make sure that yourgun had that cut to accept that
optic.
Um we fit our optic to your gun.
So it's not like looking at thebottom of this, there's no
(17:44):
defined footprint on it.
Can I touch it?
You sure can.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
After hours, after hours.
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
We're gonna do it after hours.
I wasn't gonna say it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
And it's only 826.
SPEAKER_03 (18:04):
Perfect way to start off shot day too.
Um so yeah, on there there'sthere's no defined footprint.
It doesn't really like, oh well,this will obviously go on RMR,
this will obviously go in MOS,whatever it is.
Um we developed a chassissystem.
So the chassis will actuallychange the footprint of the
optic to fit whatever cut youhave.
(18:24):
Uh the three that come with iton initial release are RMR A,
which is the traditional likeslap cut RMR that everybody has.
There's RMR B, which is morelike the Zev style that has like
the little raised-threadedbosses.
And then we've got the MOScompatible chassis as well.
So it'll direct mount toanything with RMR, which is
(18:46):
pretty much 95% of the guns thatare out there have some type of
plate or something for RMR.
Um, and then directly to uh theGlock MOS system as well.
Um and by doing that, it doesn'tmatter, you know, you're a
die-in-the-wool Glock shootertoday, but maybe in two years
you decide to switch over toSmith or you want to go over to
(19:08):
FN or you want to go over toCanak or whatever you want to
change to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
You can take it with you.
SPEAKER_03 (19:13):
Yeah, you can take it with you.
You don't have another new dotand another new footprint, and
it doesn't lock you into asingle footprint.
So just change the chassis, man,you can put it on whatever you
want.
Um, it also allows us to mountlower than any other enclosed
reflex out there as well.
So, like this thing on a GlockMOS, for example, the bottom of
(19:33):
the window sits flush with thetop of the slide.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah, because often mounts then just have you sit
higher and higher.
SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
You have a really weird hideover bore problem on a
pistol, which you know wasn'treally a thing until recently.
Right.
And then you've also got um thatadjusted sight picture.
So you see a lot of people thathave dots, even when they're
kind of used to shooting, ifthey're they're good shooters,
they know the feel of their gun,they'll go present, and then you
(20:08):
see them pick their head up sothey can get the window.
Yes.
And it's unnatural for them, andit's more difficult to kind of
get that.
So they lose the dot in thewindow.
Um, they've got to putsuppressor height sights on, so
that's gonna pick them up aswell.
Um, with these, you canco-witness with stock height
sights, and it's a full sightpicture co-witness as well.
It's not like that's the liverof the front sight blue.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
I think that's the best way I've heard it explained
because when we were at IndustryDay, I was having a conversation
with somebody who isn't reallywell experienced with shooting
red dot.
And he was like, you know, thisis hard.
I was like, because I'm used toshooting iron sights.
Like I and red dot for me, Ijust can't get it down.
But the way that you explainedit makes perfect sense because
you're just you're not used toit.
SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
It's that muscle memory of getting set up and
yeah, you're going to those flatirons and then you're you're a
quarter inch below that window,so you've got to pick your whole
head up, move up.
But most of the time, peopledon't pick their head up, they
move the gun down, and when theydo that, they lead with a muzzle
so the dot will flash throughthe window and they get lost
again.
You are so smart.
You know what I like about this?
(21:09):
I shoot a lot of guns.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
I really like that the dot is uh very vibrant, but
it's not so big that I feel likeit's gonna cover a target.
SPEAKER_03 (21:18):
Yeah, it's it's technically it's a 3.86 MOA dot.
We call it 4 MOA because for allintents and purposes, it's 4
MOA.
Um we had a lot of customerfeedback.
They're like, oh, you shouldhave gone with one MOA, you
should have gone with two MOA,you should have gone with then
you should have built it.
Well, I can I can take this oneand show it to somebody and
(21:39):
they'll be like, dude, that'sit's a four MOA, way too big.
And I'll take another oneexactly the same dot size.
Yeah.
And be like, well, this is ourtwo MOA version and give it to
them like way better.
Oh yeah.
That's what I'm talking about.
Like, there's your dot.
Like my guy marketing.
Yep.
It's as big as you want it tobe.
(21:59):
Okay.
After hours.
Yes.
Another unique thing about thereticle that we're putting in
this, so we've got two versionsof it.
There's the dot only, which issuper complicated.
It's a dot.
And then there's our Vulcanreticle.
So anybody who's familiar withour Vulcan Reticle will know
it's a very large outer circlewith that same aiming point.
(22:20):
Like in this one, it is a 240MOA outer circle, well, 238 MOA
outer circle, 240.
And as long as you present thegun right, you can't see it.
It falls outside of the field ofview, so all you're looking at
is a dot.
But bad grip out of the holster,you're shooting with your
support hand, you're shootingaround a barricade, something
weird under a car, somethinglike that, where you would
(22:42):
traditionally lose that dot, youcan see the circle, and
hopefully most of us, dependingon which public education system
you're raised in, know how tofind the center of a circle.
So you know which way to drivethat gun to get it to center, so
you're not sitting there likefishing for that dot.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Right.
Yeah.
I and I do like that.
Yeah, I do like that.
Stephen, so if somebody wants toum get a hold of primary arms,
they want an optic like this,they want to be on the wait
list, they want to give money.
Uh, you know, take my money,give me a red dot when it comes
out.
How do they how do they findthat?
SPEAKER_03 (23:18):
For the money part, um, I've got a Zell phone number
that I'm happy to hand out.
Um, it's they can uh they canhit us up on any of our social
medias.
That's the best way to find outabout new stuff.
We pump it through social first.
Um so Instagram, uh I was gonnasay Twitter, it's not Twitter
anymore.
X.
X.
Um Facebook.
(23:39):
I don't know if we're banned onthat or not.
It's it depends on the day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Give it a few months.
IG.
We might be back.
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER_03 (23:46):
We'll see.
Hopefully.
Fingers crossed, we can dowhatever we want on X.
But um yeah, hit us up on oursocial media.
So Primary Arms Optics is ourhandle on everything.
Um you can go to our website,primaryarmsoptics.com.
Everybody knows uh the dot comside, which is actually a
customer of ours.
So um PA.com is a greatcustomer.
You can go find stuff on theirsor any of our other dealers
(24:08):
across the country as well.
So um we're I think we'recurrently in 1100 retailers or
something like that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:14):
Sweet.
SPEAKER_03 (24:15):
Um, yeah, a lot of dudes out there.
If uh your favorite local gunshop doesn't have it, tell them
they need to.
SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for for comingand and showing us the new
product uh product with uhprimary arms as well.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
And we'll gladly have you on again anytime you
guys come out with anotherproduct.
Yeah, because I want to talkabout the process again.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
And and I love this because it's made in the USA,
and um, except for that crystal,but um we'll supply the free.
We'll get our own crystalcompany going.
SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
And then we can be able to supply primary arms.
I think this is a good idea.
I think that's cool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
Anyway, I think that it is I mean amazing that you
guys actually start to finishpretty much um build this in the
USA.
SPEAKER_03 (24:56):
Yeah, that's that's the that's its name take.
So HTX, Houston, Texas.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_03 (25:01):
Um we're super proud of it and we're glad we could
bring it out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
As you guys should be.
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (25:06):
Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:08):
Thank you.
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