August 8, 2025 • 19 mins
Have you ever considered what it truly means to be a responsible gun owner? In a special episode recorded at SHOT Show 2025, the hosts of "Amateurs and Experts" sit down with CEO, Bill Kleftis, from Otis Technology. They learn about how Otis Technology has been making top-notch cleaning products for 40 years and how they're now offering a new, more affordable brand called Shooter's Choice for people who are just starting out.
He also shares his insights as a firearms trainer, emphasizing that being a responsible gun owner goes far beyond marksmanship. The conversation covers the critical importance of situational awareness, de-escalation, and first-aid training, states that avoiding a threat is always better than having to respond to one.
The episode touches on the unique challenges women face with concealed carry and highlights the need for dedicated training and products for this growing demographic. Kleftis also cautions against using low-quality cleaning products, which can compromise a firearm's reliability. The discussion concludes by reinforcing the need for responsible firearm ownership that includes a complete understanding of the legal, moral, and practical aspects.
A special thank you to Otis Technology for providing an amazing space to make podcast magic at SHOT Show 2025.
Otis Technology website: OtisTech.com.Bill Kleftis' email: firearmstrainer@verizon.net.
Takeaways:
- Otis Technology has been in business for 40 years, supporting the military for nearly 30 years.
- The Shooters Choice brand offers a more affordable option for new shooters.
- Proper firearm cleaning is essential for reliability and performance.
- Training goes beyond marksmanship; it includes situational awareness and adaptability.
- Gun ownership comes with significant responsibilities, including the potential for lethal force.
- First aid training is crucial for all gun owners, as they may need to render aid before using their firearm.
- Women are the fastest-growing demographic in firearms ownership and training.
- There are now more options for women to carry firearms comfortably and discreetly.
- Situational awareness is key to reducing risks and avoiding potential threats.
- Investing in quality firearm products is important for safety and effectiveness.
Keywords used during this episode: SHOT Show 2025, Otis Technology, firearms, Shooters Choice, US Military, Babes with Bullets, three gun match, law enforcement, everyday carry (EDC), USPSA/Ipsic, de-escalation, situational awareness, suicide prevention, first aid, non-lethal
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
We are women who hide the fish,shoot, archery.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
All the things.
All the things.
We're at SHAT Show 2025 rightnow from the Otis Technology
booth, our beautiful, stunning,amazing podcast booth.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
It's it's just, I mean, I wish everybody will
check out our um our socialmedia and you will see this is
top-notch.
It is, I mean, the design iswonderful.
We get to see everybody that'swalking by.
Everybody gets to see us.
And everybody gets to be.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
But if they walk by not I got I gotta pinch myself.
I can't believe I'm here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
Oh my gosh.
That's how we feel, really.
And we are here with BillCleftis, and he's with Otis
Technology.
And I'm so excited to be here.
I'm excited to be uh here withthe Bill and have you on our
podcast today.
Thank you so much for you.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Absolutely.
And I know that I mean uh Otisis always coming up with new
products, uh evolving.
Um what's what's happening hereat the SHOT Show?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Well, I'll tell you, it's it's uh, you know, Otis has
been in business for uh 40years, this is uh 40 year uh
yeah, 40-year anniversary, anduh, you know, been supporting
the US military for almost 30years.
Um it's it's uh it it really hasbeen a wonderful um opportunity
to be, you know, able to leadthe organization uh in the last
(01:44):
three three and a half threeyears or so that I've been on
board.
Uh it was really an easy choiceto join Otis because of its
reputation.
But I think what uh what whatwe've looked at is more of a
more strategic look into thefuture and and how do we serve
our customers better goingforward.
Uh one of the things that uh youknow, a number of years ago, we
(02:05):
actually picked up the shooter'schoice brand.
And I think that what we've beenover the last uh two or three
years now, what we've done isreally developed a two-tier
approach to uh bringing in themarket.
Uh certainly Otis will always bethe number one product that that
that that's built, combatproven, and continue to be
combat proven, designed andbuilt in upstate New York.
(02:27):
And then the shooter's choicebrand is what I'd call our best
value brand because you knowthere's a number of things that
are coming from overseas thatthat don't compare to our Otis
product at all.
But at the same time, peopleespecially first-time shooters
not knowing what I should bebuying, uh, we want to give them
a choice.
And the shooter's choice productis the is really the choice for
(02:50):
any of the new shooters that aremaybe uncertain looking at
whether they're buying it fromtheir local dealer or buying it
through Amazon, uh, they can seethat that we do have alternate
products that not necessarilyhave to rely on you know the
stuff that's coming from the FarEast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Oh.
So is that um shooter's product?
What where is that uh located,like your warehouse or your oh
no, it's it's uh so there's anumber of things.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Uh we we augment some of uh some of the uh uh
products in the shooter's choiceproduct line.
We augment both with uh um uhglobally sourced materials along
with some of the things that wedo and combine them into a
product called Shooter's Choice.
So the the Shooter's Choice linewas originally uh uh their focus
(03:40):
was uh uh chemicals and soforth.
So a lot of the chemicals wecontinue to support uh uh in the
Shooter's Choice line as well asexpand uh beyond uh the original
product offering.
But we've also augmented the thechemicals with other types of
cleaning uh uh items and brushesand kits and uh you know some of
(04:00):
the things that that ourcustomers are demanding out
there.
SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
And you guys have an awesome kit.
We um the first Babes withBullets three-gun match, it was
the first time I've I had evershot like a female-oriented
match.
It was actually the first time Iever shot a three-gun match,
like a on a big, big scale, nota local match.
It was amazing.
Uh Heather was out there and shewas so gracious, and I actually
(04:30):
won the um a huge kit.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yep, the range box, probably.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
It was so cool.
And this was like nine yearsago.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
And um, and I remember trying to pack it in my
suitcase.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
We could have shipped it for you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
You didn't have to take it.
It was fine.
And we actually, my husband andI, we we shoot and we still use
some of those things.
And it came with a little alittle range kit, and I mean, I
take that everywhere.
It's in my range bag.
Sure, sure.
Um, and then when I was um I wasin law enforcement, and I would
not go to the range withoutOtis.
(05:09):
And everybody was like, What doyou got?
What do you got?
I'm like, I'm not using thatstuff, you know, the department
issue.
I'm like, here's a here's aripcord, here's a and it was it
cleaned so well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And it does make a difference.
It does.
And when you have a firearm thatis you probably spend a lot of
money on, cleaning it is a verykey thing to make sure that it
continues to fire well.
And I think a lot of people takethat for granted.
And so why would you spend a lotof money on a firearm and then
use less expensive, like justpar core, like par substantial
(05:39):
materials?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Well, think about this, right?
Your your everyday carry isyou're you expect it to be
reliable when if you would haveto use it.
So absolutely.
So I I'm I'm even even when Idon't fire my firearm on a at
least on a monthly basis to makesure that it's clean, it's
operable, and so forth.
Because even just sitting in a apocket, if you're if you're
(06:01):
using a pocket holster or whathave you, uh you want to make
sure that there's no debris oranything that impedes the
function of the firearm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Yes, because you want it to go bang and not
click.
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Absolutely.
unknown (06:13):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
No, I'm it's funny because uh, you know, I've been
I've been competing pistolshooting, uh, USPSA, Ipsyc, uh
uh there's a number of differentevents, and three gunning for a
number of years.
And I I I can remember the firsttime that I three gunned, it was
it was it was a hoot.
I mean, you're your your bloodis pumping, and you just, you
(06:35):
know, and and it's funny becauseyou know, there's so much
attention on safety that anytime that you you dump the gun,
it needs to be in a safecondition, right?
So it's always safety, safety,safety.
Always, you know, at the end ofeach gun, you're you just want
to make sure they don't getdequeued between you know
between stages or during anevent, especially if you're
(06:55):
traveling somewhere that takes12 hours to get there.
The last thing you want to do isDQ on the first stage.
So absolutely.
Yeah, no, you know, and it'sgreat because uh we all started
at the same place, right?
We all started at the firsttrigger poll.
So I I also do our concealedcarry permits in uh a number of
counties uh in the area thatthat that we live in.
(07:18):
And I tell people the same thingthat you know it really comes
down if if you want thislifestyle, you have to be
proficient.
And it's more than justmarksmanship, it's really more
of an attitude uh as well,because it's not a magic wand,
it doesn't, you know, pulling itout doesn't stop the threat.
And and and you know, regardlessof the amount of training that
(07:41):
you go through, you need to beable to be adaptable, recognize
uh a potential threat, and youneed to be able to adapt and
adjust to the situation.
Uh, and that's a personaldecision that every every gun
owner needs to make on you knowwhether they are disciplined
enough and prepared for thatpotential threat.
(08:03):
And training for it isabsolutely critical to be able
to make sure that that if thatsituation arises, you've got to
be at least comfortable enoughand proficient enough to do so.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
And then when you pull it, you need to pull the
trigger.
And we have a lot ofconversations with ladies that
you know just buying a firearmisn't enough.
You have to go training and notnot necessarily just training at
the range, because to yourpoint, you don't know what could
happen in training at the rangein a controlled environment.
Your emotions are calm, you knowyou're in a safe space, is very
(08:34):
different than being put out ofyour comfort zone in a dangerous
situation and having to havethat muscle memory work the same
way.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
One of the three there are three things that
unfortunately New York State isstill not a very uh friendly
state to uh to gun owners.
But uh in September of 22 theyforced a uh new requirement
where there's uh uh require 16hours of classroom uh
instruction and two hours oflive fire.
But one of the things, threethings that they added to the
(09:02):
requirements that I think areversatile and as well as
regardless if you're a gun owneror not, is uh de-escalation
techniques, situationalawareness, and suicide
prevention.
Oh wow.
And I go through a lot ofdetails to explain the people,
especially about situationalawareness.
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
I was just gonna say that everyone needs that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
You can't bury your head in a cell phone, you need
to be aware of yoursurroundings, head on a swivel,
and making sure that you aredoing everything you can to
resist to to reduce thepotential for a threat.
So, for example, why are you outat two o'clock in the morning?
Why are you drunk out at twoo'clock in the morning?
Why are you in a cityenvironment?
(09:44):
Why are you by yourself?
Why all these things compoundand the the the the situ what
you should be looking at is howdo I reduce my risk, not
necessarily how do I respond inthe in the event of a threat.
So it's absolutely critical thatthat people pay attention to
some of these things and andreduce that potential for
(10:05):
something to occur.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I always have conversations likewith the with even my family.
If you're gonna get a firearm,make sure that you could use it.
Uh have that, you know, likereally think about that.
If if it comes push to shove,are you gonna be able to pull
that trigger?
Right.
And um, if not, go get somethingelse.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
Yeah, I I even worry about our law enforcement uh uh
uh folks out there that you knowover the last few years there's
been so much negativity thatthat's been out there on the
airwaves that even if theyhesitate for a fraction of a
second, it could mean thedifference between whether they
go home or not.
Absolutely.
The same thing is true with usas for those of us that conceal
(10:49):
carry, you know, when you whenwhen you're when you're
confronted with a threat, nowyou have to make a decision.
Does this escalate to the pointwhere I have to stop the threat
with a firearm?
Because now when you have anEDC, you have the potential to
take someone's life.
So every conflict now is apotential armed conflict.
(11:09):
So you've got to be able tothink that through.
And regardless of the amount oftraining that you have, that
real life dynamic situation, asyou described, can can uh you're
you're gonna have to rely onintuition and whatever training
and response you've gone throughto try to reduce the threat.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
And the aftermath that yes, you might take a life,
but even if you are in theright, air quotes, does not mean
that you're not gonna go throughlitigation, investigation, all
of those other things.
Absolutely.
There's a lot of and obviouslyconcealed carry, we support it,
you know, your right to defendyourself, but you need to be
educated, just like any othertopic or any other element in
(11:52):
life, know every aspect of itbefore you get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Absolutely.
And it's and it's not just thelitigation, but uh, you know,
how is is your mind gonna beable to absorb it that you just
took a life?
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
It's it's funny you say that because in class I tell
people you may you may beat thecriminal case against you, and
then you may beat the civil caseagainst you, but then you have
the moral case, and you'regonna, in the back of your mind,
you're gonna say to yourself,did I really need to kill that
person to stop the threat,right?
It's a 17-year-old kid that hasbeen misguided and and you you
(12:25):
felt threatened, you killedsomeone, and you have to deal
with that for the rest of yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
So that unfortunately or fortunately,
you know, that delay could meanthe difference of whether you go
home or not.
And that's that's why I thinkthere needs to be more attention
placed on how do I reduce therisk instead of instead of
having to be trained for theevent.
The other thing that I also uhemphasize is first aid.
Chances are that you're gonnarender first aid to people
(12:54):
before you need to actually takea life.
So I'm a huge advocate of ofgetting people to get first aid
training, whether it's stop thebleed, uh regular first aid type
uh uh training, especially inour our area, uh trauma center
is so far away.
You're gonna if you if if you'vegot a uh traumatic event, you're
gonna be taken out with ahelicopter.
(13:15):
So being able to, you know,apply a tourniquet, be able to
stop the bleed is is absolutelycritical to saving a life.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
I feel like that's one of those things that in
today's world, maybe a fewdecades ago, people knew more,
but it's like changing a tire.
People don't know thosenecessary everyday things that
you probably should know thatwould make a bad situation much
better.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Yeah, no, it's a good point.
Yeah, and even though thatperson might have tried to kill
you, uh rendering first aid ifthey need it is important.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
Absolutely.
You know, it's it's yeah,absolutely.
And it's tough, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
It's all it's all of the moral thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
It's the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
Um, there's a lot of non-lethal uh means nowadays
too, which make a lot of sense.
Um, you know, I'm a huge fan ofBerna.
Berna does a great job with alot of their non-lethal uh
firearms.
Um and but but again, when whenthe situation arises, you know,
do I do I use my non-lethal ordo I use my lethal, right?
And if you carry both.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Right.
And they and Berna, along with alot of other companies like Fox,
Mace, Saber, Pepper Spray,whether you have a coupaton, a
knife, can't be at the bottom ofyour purse.
Right.
It has to be able to get tooquickly.
And before I had my own company,I worked for Mace, and I would
have people talk to me all thetime and ask me, well, you know,
how how should I carry this?
(14:35):
Like how I can't tell you howyou're gonna be attacked, or let
alone if if you're going to be.
You know, we can't perceivethose things.
So it is about your proficiencyin whatever tool you want to use
and what you feel mostcomfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
It's funny because um I've I've had, I'd say that a
lot of my classes nowadays,especially when I was doing it
online during COVID, more than60% of the of my students were
females because it was a loteasier for them to be able to
participate in a four-hour classonline than it is to have to go
and show up.
And I can remember when my wife,before I was, before I was
(15:09):
actually doing instructing, uh,she was the lone the lone female
in a class of about 20 guys, andshe hated it, you know, and she
was saying, yeah, all the guyswouldn't be yucking it up, and
you know, she was by herself,and which is terrible.
But I think that, you know, oneof the things that I uh that I
really do believe, andespecially when you think about
it, women is the are the fastestgrowing subset when it comes to
(15:32):
firearm owners, and it's it'scritical.
The thing is, I'm not a hugepurse advocate because unless
you have your purse with you allthe time, that gun is not going
to do you any good.
So you have a lot of women thatwill leave their purse in the
car, they go inside the storewith a change purse.
The gun's not in your purse.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Wait, wait, hold on.
I have to get my gun out of mypurse, you know.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
Yeah, or you know, you go to your friend's house
and and the purse is in, youknow, hanging on one of the
chairs or it's in the bedroomwith all the other purses, and
you know, the 14-year-old kidthat lives in the house is
rifling through purses andlooking for money, but he found
a gun.
So uh I'm a huge advocate ofDean Adams, Dean Adams' website.
You know, they they have allkinds of different the options
(16:18):
today for women are so much morethan they were 25 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Which is nice because as women, we come in all
shapes, curves, sizes, andhaving a different structure,
apparatus, whatever, to carry iton your body where you feel that
you can get to it quickly andmost comfortably is very
important.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Well, and you have different events, you have
different events, right?
Yeah.
The clothes you wear in thewintertime will be different
than what you wear in the in thesummertime.
Or if you're at a formal event,what do you do there versus an
informal type of situation?
So the options today for bothmen and women are so much back
35 years ago, uh, it was outsidethe way that was it.
(17:03):
So uh you know, some of theoptions today with you know the
different types of corsets, thebelly bands, the uh uh sticky
holster.
Sticky holster, you know, is agreat I I actually I love the
sticky holster in the summertimebecause I could throw a uh
revolver in the sticky holster,put it in my cargo pants, and
I'm gonna begin again.
(17:23):
Nobody knows.
Nobody knows.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
Bill, it's been so great having you on our podcast.
Thank you.
Um, I mean, it's so informative.
I love it.
We we would love to have youback.
Yes, anytime.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
I'm uh I love this type of stuff.
You can see that I I lovetalking about this.
I'm pretty passionate about it,and uh would love to try to help
as you know as many people aspossible in making the right
choices.
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
So, Bill, how does how do people get a hold of Otis
or for you for uh training?
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
So in in the upstate uh New York area, um, I could
certainly uh my my uh email asfirearms trainer uh at
verizon.net uh for Otis, uh Otisproducts and so forth.
We're at OtisTech.com.
And uh I I totally you knowwould want everyone to you know
take a look at some of theproducts that we have.
(18:14):
Uh be careful to not get suckedinto you know buying some of the
cheaper products that you canbuy on Amazon.
You you get what you pay for.
SPEAKER_00 (18:21):
Uh we were just talking about that.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
You know, Otis products we make in Lions Falls,
New York.
Uh we are vertically integrated,so I mean we we take raw
materials and uh fabricate themso that they are meet the
standards that that we build toboth uh to the DOD and and uh
what we've been doing that hasbeen combat proven, and uh we
(18:44):
share that with uh the wholecommercial world as well.
So thank you for having me,folks.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
Have a great show.
SPEAKER_02 (18:53):
Thank you, you too.
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
We are women who hide the fish,shoot, archery.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
All the things.
All the things.
We're at SHAT Show 2025 rightnow from the Otis Technology
booth, our beautiful, stunning,amazing podcast booth.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
It's it's just, I mean, I wish everybody will
check out our um our socialmedia and you will see this is
top-notch.
It is, I mean, the design iswonderful.
We get to see everybody that'swalking by.
Everybody gets to see us.
And everybody gets to be.
SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
But if they walk by not I got I gotta pinch myself.
I can't believe I'm here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
Oh my gosh.
That's how we feel, really.
And we are here with BillCleftis, and he's with Otis
Technology.
And I'm so excited to be here.
I'm excited to be uh here withthe Bill and have you on our
podcast today.
Thank you so much for you.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Absolutely.
And I know that I mean uh Otisis always coming up with new
products, uh evolving.
Um what's what's happening hereat the SHOT Show?
SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Well, I'll tell you, it's it's uh, you know, Otis has
been in business for uh 40years, this is uh 40 year uh
yeah, 40-year anniversary, anduh, you know, been supporting
the US military for almost 30years.
Um it's it's uh it it really hasbeen a wonderful um opportunity
to be, you know, able to leadthe organization uh in the last
(01:44):
three three and a half threeyears or so that I've been on
board.
Uh it was really an easy choiceto join Otis because of its
reputation.
But I think what uh what whatwe've looked at is more of a
more strategic look into thefuture and and how do we serve
our customers better goingforward.
Uh one of the things that uh youknow, a number of years ago, we
(02:05):
actually picked up the shooter'schoice brand.
And I think that what we've beenover the last uh two or three
years now, what we've done isreally developed a two-tier
approach to uh bringing in themarket.
Uh certainly Otis will always bethe number one product that that
that that's built, combatproven, and continue to be
combat proven, designed andbuilt in upstate New York.
(02:27):
And then the shooter's choicebrand is what I'd call our best
value brand because you knowthere's a number of things that
are coming from overseas thatthat don't compare to our Otis
product at all.
But at the same time, peopleespecially first-time shooters
not knowing what I should bebuying, uh, we want to give them
a choice.
And the shooter's choice productis the is really the choice for
(02:50):
any of the new shooters that aremaybe uncertain looking at
whether they're buying it fromtheir local dealer or buying it
through Amazon, uh, they can seethat that we do have alternate
products that not necessarilyhave to rely on you know the
stuff that's coming from the FarEast.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Oh.
So is that um shooter's product?
What where is that uh located,like your warehouse or your oh
no, it's it's uh so there's anumber of things.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Uh we we augment some of uh some of the uh uh
products in the shooter's choiceproduct line.
We augment both with uh um uhglobally sourced materials along
with some of the things that wedo and combine them into a
product called Shooter's Choice.
So the the Shooter's Choice linewas originally uh uh their focus
(03:40):
was uh uh chemicals and soforth.
So a lot of the chemicals wecontinue to support uh uh in the
Shooter's Choice line as well asexpand uh beyond uh the original
product offering.
But we've also augmented the thechemicals with other types of
cleaning uh uh items and brushesand kits and uh you know some of
(04:00):
the things that that ourcustomers are demanding out
there.
SPEAKER_01 (04:05):
And you guys have an awesome kit.
We um the first Babes withBullets three-gun match, it was
the first time I've I had evershot like a female-oriented
match.
It was actually the first time Iever shot a three-gun match,
like a on a big, big scale, nota local match.
It was amazing.
Uh Heather was out there and shewas so gracious, and I actually
(04:30):
won the um a huge kit.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yep, the range box, probably.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
It was so cool.
And this was like nine yearsago.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
And um, and I remember trying to pack it in my
suitcase.
SPEAKER_02 (04:45):
We could have shipped it for you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
You didn't have to take it.
It was fine.
And we actually, my husband andI, we we shoot and we still use
some of those things.
And it came with a little alittle range kit, and I mean, I
take that everywhere.
It's in my range bag.
Sure, sure.
Um, and then when I was um I wasin law enforcement, and I would
not go to the range withoutOtis.
(05:09):
And everybody was like, What doyou got?
What do you got?
I'm like, I'm not using thatstuff, you know, the department
issue.
I'm like, here's a here's aripcord, here's a and it was it
cleaned so well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And it does make a difference.
It does.
And when you have a firearm thatis you probably spend a lot of
money on, cleaning it is a verykey thing to make sure that it
continues to fire well.
And I think a lot of people takethat for granted.
And so why would you spend a lotof money on a firearm and then
use less expensive, like justpar core, like par substantial
(05:39):
materials?
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
Well, think about this, right?
Your your everyday carry isyou're you expect it to be
reliable when if you would haveto use it.
So absolutely.
So I I'm I'm even even when Idon't fire my firearm on a at
least on a monthly basis to makesure that it's clean, it's
operable, and so forth.
Because even just sitting in a apocket, if you're if you're
(06:01):
using a pocket holster or whathave you, uh you want to make
sure that there's no debris oranything that impedes the
function of the firearm.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Yes, because you want it to go bang and not
click.
SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Absolutely.
unknown (06:13):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
No, I'm it's funny because uh, you know, I've been
I've been competing pistolshooting, uh, USPSA, Ipsyc, uh
uh there's a number of differentevents, and three gunning for a
number of years.
And I I I can remember the firsttime that I three gunned, it was
it was it was a hoot.
I mean, you're your your bloodis pumping, and you just, you
(06:35):
know, and and it's funny becauseyou know, there's so much
attention on safety that anytime that you you dump the gun,
it needs to be in a safecondition, right?
So it's always safety, safety,safety.
Always, you know, at the end ofeach gun, you're you just want
to make sure they don't getdequeued between you know
between stages or during anevent, especially if you're
(06:55):
traveling somewhere that takes12 hours to get there.
The last thing you want to do isDQ on the first stage.
So absolutely.
Yeah, no, you know, and it'sgreat because uh we all started
at the same place, right?
We all started at the firsttrigger poll.
So I I also do our concealedcarry permits in uh a number of
counties uh in the area thatthat that we live in.
(07:18):
And I tell people the same thingthat you know it really comes
down if if you want thislifestyle, you have to be
proficient.
And it's more than justmarksmanship, it's really more
of an attitude uh as well,because it's not a magic wand,
it doesn't, you know, pulling itout doesn't stop the threat.
And and and you know, regardlessof the amount of training that
(07:41):
you go through, you need to beable to be adaptable, recognize
uh a potential threat, and youneed to be able to adapt and
adjust to the situation.
Uh, and that's a personaldecision that every every gun
owner needs to make on you knowwhether they are disciplined
enough and prepared for thatpotential threat.
(08:03):
And training for it isabsolutely critical to be able
to make sure that that if thatsituation arises, you've got to
be at least comfortable enoughand proficient enough to do so.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
And then when you pull it, you need to pull the
trigger.
And we have a lot ofconversations with ladies that
you know just buying a firearmisn't enough.
You have to go training and notnot necessarily just training at
the range, because to yourpoint, you don't know what could
happen in training at the rangein a controlled environment.
Your emotions are calm, you knowyou're in a safe space, is very
(08:34):
different than being put out ofyour comfort zone in a dangerous
situation and having to havethat muscle memory work the same
way.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
One of the three there are three things that
unfortunately New York State isstill not a very uh friendly
state to uh to gun owners.
But uh in September of 22 theyforced a uh new requirement
where there's uh uh require 16hours of classroom uh
instruction and two hours oflive fire.
But one of the things, threethings that they added to the
(09:02):
requirements that I think areversatile and as well as
regardless if you're a gun owneror not, is uh de-escalation
techniques, situationalawareness, and suicide
prevention.
Oh wow.
And I go through a lot ofdetails to explain the people,
especially about situationalawareness.
SPEAKER_00 (09:19):
I was just gonna say that everyone needs that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:24):
You can't bury your head in a cell phone, you need
to be aware of yoursurroundings, head on a swivel,
and making sure that you aredoing everything you can to
resist to to reduce thepotential for a threat.
So, for example, why are you outat two o'clock in the morning?
Why are you drunk out at twoo'clock in the morning?
Why are you in a cityenvironment?
(09:44):
Why are you by yourself?
Why all these things compoundand the the the the situ what
you should be looking at is howdo I reduce my risk, not
necessarily how do I respond inthe in the event of a threat.
So it's absolutely critical thatthat people pay attention to
some of these things and andreduce that potential for
(10:05):
something to occur.
SPEAKER_01 (10:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I always have conversations likewith the with even my family.
If you're gonna get a firearm,make sure that you could use it.
Uh have that, you know, likereally think about that.
If if it comes push to shove,are you gonna be able to pull
that trigger?
Right.
And um, if not, go get somethingelse.
SPEAKER_02 (10:28):
Yeah, I I even worry about our law enforcement uh uh
uh folks out there that you knowover the last few years there's
been so much negativity thatthat's been out there on the
airwaves that even if theyhesitate for a fraction of a
second, it could mean thedifference between whether they
go home or not.
Absolutely.
The same thing is true with usas for those of us that conceal
(10:49):
carry, you know, when you whenwhen you're when you're
confronted with a threat, nowyou have to make a decision.
Does this escalate to the pointwhere I have to stop the threat
with a firearm?
Because now when you have anEDC, you have the potential to
take someone's life.
So every conflict now is apotential armed conflict.
(11:09):
So you've got to be able tothink that through.
And regardless of the amount oftraining that you have, that
real life dynamic situation, asyou described, can can uh you're
you're gonna have to rely onintuition and whatever training
and response you've gone throughto try to reduce the threat.
SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
And the aftermath that yes, you might take a life,
but even if you are in theright, air quotes, does not mean
that you're not gonna go throughlitigation, investigation, all
of those other things.
Absolutely.
There's a lot of and obviouslyconcealed carry, we support it,
you know, your right to defendyourself, but you need to be
educated, just like any othertopic or any other element in
(11:52):
life, know every aspect of itbefore you get into it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Absolutely.
And it's and it's not just thelitigation, but uh, you know,
how is is your mind gonna beable to absorb it that you just
took a life?
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
It's it's funny you say that because in class I tell
people you may you may beat thecriminal case against you, and
then you may beat the civil caseagainst you, but then you have
the moral case, and you'regonna, in the back of your mind,
you're gonna say to yourself,did I really need to kill that
person to stop the threat,right?
It's a 17-year-old kid that hasbeen misguided and and you you
(12:25):
felt threatened, you killedsomeone, and you have to deal
with that for the rest of yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
So that unfortunately or fortunately,
you know, that delay could meanthe difference of whether you go
home or not.
And that's that's why I thinkthere needs to be more attention
placed on how do I reduce therisk instead of instead of
having to be trained for theevent.
The other thing that I also uhemphasize is first aid.
Chances are that you're gonnarender first aid to people
(12:54):
before you need to actually takea life.
So I'm a huge advocate of ofgetting people to get first aid
training, whether it's stop thebleed, uh regular first aid type
uh uh training, especially inour our area, uh trauma center
is so far away.
You're gonna if you if if you'vegot a uh traumatic event, you're
gonna be taken out with ahelicopter.
(13:15):
So being able to, you know,apply a tourniquet, be able to
stop the bleed is is absolutelycritical to saving a life.
SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
I feel like that's one of those things that in
today's world, maybe a fewdecades ago, people knew more,
but it's like changing a tire.
People don't know thosenecessary everyday things that
you probably should know thatwould make a bad situation much
better.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Yeah, no, it's a good point.
Yeah, and even though thatperson might have tried to kill
you, uh rendering first aid ifthey need it is important.
SPEAKER_02 (13:44):
Absolutely.
You know, it's it's yeah,absolutely.
And it's tough, right?
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
It's all it's all of the moral thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:52):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
It's the right thing to do.
SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
Um, there's a lot of non-lethal uh means nowadays
too, which make a lot of sense.
Um, you know, I'm a huge fan ofBerna.
Berna does a great job with alot of their non-lethal uh
firearms.
Um and but but again, when whenthe situation arises, you know,
do I do I use my non-lethal ordo I use my lethal, right?
And if you carry both.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Right.
And they and Berna, along with alot of other companies like Fox,
Mace, Saber, Pepper Spray,whether you have a coupaton, a
knife, can't be at the bottom ofyour purse.
Right.
It has to be able to get tooquickly.
And before I had my own company,I worked for Mace, and I would
have people talk to me all thetime and ask me, well, you know,
how how should I carry this?
(14:35):
Like how I can't tell you howyou're gonna be attacked, or let
alone if if you're going to be.
You know, we can't perceivethose things.
So it is about your proficiencyin whatever tool you want to use
and what you feel mostcomfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (14:47):
It's funny because um I've I've had, I'd say that a
lot of my classes nowadays,especially when I was doing it
online during COVID, more than60% of the of my students were
females because it was a loteasier for them to be able to
participate in a four-hour classonline than it is to have to go
and show up.
And I can remember when my wife,before I was, before I was
(15:09):
actually doing instructing, uh,she was the lone the lone female
in a class of about 20 guys, andshe hated it, you know, and she
was saying, yeah, all the guyswouldn't be yucking it up, and
you know, she was by herself,and which is terrible.
But I think that, you know, oneof the things that I uh that I
really do believe, andespecially when you think about
it, women is the are the fastestgrowing subset when it comes to
(15:32):
firearm owners, and it's it'scritical.
The thing is, I'm not a hugepurse advocate because unless
you have your purse with you allthe time, that gun is not going
to do you any good.
So you have a lot of women thatwill leave their purse in the
car, they go inside the storewith a change purse.
The gun's not in your purse.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Wait, wait, hold on.
I have to get my gun out of mypurse, you know.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
Yeah, or you know, you go to your friend's house
and and the purse is in, youknow, hanging on one of the
chairs or it's in the bedroomwith all the other purses, and
you know, the 14-year-old kidthat lives in the house is
rifling through purses andlooking for money, but he found
a gun.
So uh I'm a huge advocate ofDean Adams, Dean Adams' website.
You know, they they have allkinds of different the options
(16:18):
today for women are so much morethan they were 25 years ago.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Which is nice because as women, we come in all
shapes, curves, sizes, andhaving a different structure,
apparatus, whatever, to carry iton your body where you feel that
you can get to it quickly andmost comfortably is very
important.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
Well, and you have different events, you have
different events, right?
Yeah.
The clothes you wear in thewintertime will be different
than what you wear in the in thesummertime.
Or if you're at a formal event,what do you do there versus an
informal type of situation?
So the options today for bothmen and women are so much back
35 years ago, uh, it was outsidethe way that was it.
(17:03):
So uh you know, some of theoptions today with you know the
different types of corsets, thebelly bands, the uh uh sticky
holster.
Sticky holster, you know, is agreat I I actually I love the
sticky holster in the summertimebecause I could throw a uh
revolver in the sticky holster,put it in my cargo pants, and
I'm gonna begin again.
(17:23):
Nobody knows.
Nobody knows.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
Bill, it's been so great having you on our podcast.
Thank you.
Um, I mean, it's so informative.
I love it.
We we would love to have youback.
Yes, anytime.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
I'm uh I love this type of stuff.
You can see that I I lovetalking about this.
I'm pretty passionate about it,and uh would love to try to help
as you know as many people aspossible in making the right
choices.
SPEAKER_01 (17:45):
So, Bill, how does how do people get a hold of Otis
or for you for uh training?
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
So in in the upstate uh New York area, um, I could
certainly uh my my uh email asfirearms trainer uh at
verizon.net uh for Otis, uh Otisproducts and so forth.
We're at OtisTech.com.
And uh I I totally you knowwould want everyone to you know
take a look at some of theproducts that we have.
(18:14):
Uh be careful to not get suckedinto you know buying some of the
cheaper products that you canbuy on Amazon.
You you get what you pay for.
SPEAKER_00 (18:21):
Uh we were just talking about that.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:24):
You know, Otis products we make in Lions Falls,
New York.
Uh we are vertically integrated,so I mean we we take raw
materials and uh fabricate themso that they are meet the
standards that that we build toboth uh to the DOD and and uh
what we've been doing that hasbeen combat proven, and uh we
(18:44):
share that with uh the wholecommercial world as well.
So thank you for having me,folks.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (18:51):
Have a great show.
SPEAKER_02 (18:53):
Thank you, you too.
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