August 30, 2026 • 22 mins
Have you ever wondered how stepping outside your comfort zone can change your life? In this episode of the Amateurs and Experts Podcast, hosts Erica Chin and Maggie Reese sit down with Deb Ferns live at the 2026 SHOT Show. Deb shares how a dare from Ted Nugent led her to create the Women's Outdoor Media Association back in 2009. The group talks about how learning to shoot, fish, and hunt helps women gain real confidence that carries over into their daily lives and careers.
Deb explains how her all-volunteer team raises money at events like "She Never Quit" to help good causes, including buying special protective vests for police dogs. She also talks about passing the torch to new leaders so the organization can keep growing for years to come. Listeners who want to join an event or learn more can visit thewoma.org or email Deb directly.
Links
- Timestamp 13:20: Explore upcoming specialized clinics and special events at thewoma.org.
Key Takeaways
- Confidence Transfer: Mastering new, intimidating outdoor skills builds personal confidence that carries over into professional and daily life decisions.
- Ego-Free Mentorship: Top-level instructors achieve the best results by focusing entirely on student growth rather than personal accolades.
- Mission-Driven Leadership: Sustainable non-profit success relies on an all-volunteer structure and clear transparency regarding where funds go.
- Generational Succession: Organizations need to intentionally transition leadership to younger generations to stay dynamic and forward-looking.
- Living Outside the Comfort Zone: Embracing personal challenges allows individuals to fully utilize their inherent talents and potential.
Key Words Used
- SHOT Show
- Otis Technology
- Amateurs and Experts Podcast
- Deb Ferns
- Women’s Outdoor Media Association (WOMA)
- Babes with Bullets
- She Never Quit
- Hunting
- Shooting sports
- Mentorship
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
I'm Erica Chin.
I am here with Maggie Reese asmy co-host, and we are at 2026
Shot Show in the Otis Technologybooth.
That um is pretty cool,actually.
It's very uh professional.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
And we are here with Deb Ferns, the founder of the
Women's Outdoor MediaAssociation.
Yay! Uh Babes with Bullets.
Um there is a list when sheemails you, she has a whole list
of things.
What can I tell you?
Dog rescue, uh horse rescue.
Yes.
So um we're excited to have Debon because um I mean we're like
(00:57):
family.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Well, speak for yourself.
I'm this is the one I was likethe most nervous for because Dev
and I, we've I mean we've knowneach other for so long, and we
have so many stories, and mostof them cannot be told.
And some secrets.
(01:19):
Like we can some of this stuffshould just not go out to the
public.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Well, she was not far off based on that one,
right?
But you know, we always say,what's my favorite saying?
That's not my fault.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
That is Debs.
That's my go-to.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
It's not my fault.
Should we define Seafock?
Or Well, I'm the princess ofSuffolk, but you guys call it
Seafock, which is not as sexy.
And it's uh the cosmic forces ofchaos.
Yes, yes, yes.
Because if weird stuff happens,it's normally not my fault, but
(01:57):
somehow I'm always in themiddle.
Oh.
And then she has pictures toprove it.
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Which is amazing.
Yes, always.
SPEAKER_03 (02:06):
She's like, let me show you that picture.
Well, because people say if youdon't have a video or picture,
it didn't happen, right?
But anyway, and you guys haveall driven with me, so you know
in my van, in my motorhome,whatever, I've got an adventure
bell.
Yes.
And you have to ding theadventure bell when we leave the
driveway because we've also allslept with you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
See, and that was one of the things.
I was like, should that go out,like for public knowledge that
we've all slept in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
I think Deb is pretty open about it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
When we were doing babes with bullets, I would uh
look around a campfire and lookat all the different
instructors, everything, andthink, oh, I have slept with you
all.
And then Kixlik looks at me andgoes, Why do you have to say
that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
But see, I'm at the point now where I feel like I've
put in my time.
I I put in my time sleeping withyou.
Okay.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Maggie has refused to be in the same bed as Deb,
even though we wererochambeauing the other night
about it.
Too much flopping andeverything.
SPEAKER_03 (03:05):
So um, you know, well, basically what we do is we
make a pajama party fun.
Yes, right.
We do.
We make a pajama party fun.
And when we started uh the Womain 2009, right, um, it was
actually, I was having thatconversation with Ted Nugent,
and um he was like, if you wantsomething for women, he says you
have to build it.
(03:25):
And I thought to myself, thatsounded like a dare.
Challenge accepted.
Challenge accepted.
And so, and and really thinkabout it.
You gals have been with us foryears and years and years and
years.
Mission statement never changed.
Yeah.
To introduce more women andtheir stories in fishing,
hunting, archery, and shootingsports.
(03:48):
Yeah, right.
That's exactly what we're doing.
Yeah, when uh, you know, whenMaggie and I were in Namibia
together doing a hunt, right?
It was all about doing somethingdifferent.
We, you know, uh somethingoutside our comfort zone.
When we go hunting in a highfence in Texas, a lot 90% of
those girls have never been on ahunt before that we mentor.
(04:09):
It's no different, Maggie, thanwhat we do at She Never Quit,
with how many women we get at aShe Never Quit event held every
spring, they've not shot.
And even if they've shot theirgun, they've not shot like a
Henry.
Yes.
Or they haven't shot a shotgun,right?
Like a they want to try aMossburg shotgun or or a
(04:30):
Benelli, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Dad, the reason why I shoot is because of you.
I got in Babes with Bulletsthree gun match.
Yeah.
Was because of Babes withBullets.
Right.
Um my husband got me into threegun, and that's the only reason
why I got into three gun was togo to that match.
Um as far as hunting, you're theone that took me out hunting for
the first time when I was in my40s.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (04:52):
I mean, uh And you killed your you killed your
piggy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Yes, yes.
And so, you know, it isimportant for my life.
Wilma has been important becauseI've done a lot of firsts with
with you and the things thatyou're involved in.
Um, and I'm one of those ladiesthat, you know, didn't really
hunt and fish when I mean Ididn't hunt at all.
I fished a little bit when I wasa kid with like my grandfather
and my father.
(05:15):
But other than that, uh, Iwasn't exposed to any of that
until I met you.
SPEAKER_03 (05:20):
Well, you know, the adventure began.
It's all about paying itforward.
And you know, I met Maggiebecause she's been a competitive
shooter a long time.
unknown (05:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
And it it's it's funny how the circle just goes
around and around.
That's kind of been a a theme ofwhat we've been talking about on
these podcasts, is just womeninfluencing other women.
And but I'm sitting here and I'mlike, okay, well, I got to go
fishing with Erica, which wassuper, super fun.
I stopped screaming abouthalfway through the day.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:48):
And actually touched, like, touched a fish
and put it on her hook.
See, I like fishing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
I like the beer drinking part of fishing, I like
the standing there part offishing.
I did not like the hooking of mylittle bait fish, though.
And so I screamed the entiretime and it was like, oh, it's
wiggling and it it's slimy andit's got scales on it, and
Erica, what do I do?
And I dropped like 12 bait fish.
(06:14):
And the guys on the boat werereally not impressed.
And I kept thinking to myself,like, the whole time, like, they
would not believe me if I toldthem what I do for a living.
Because they like they here Ican't handle like a little bait
fish, you know.
But I had Erica to like be like,I'm gonna mentor you through
this.
Like we we got this.
You you can touch the fish, andit only took, you know, uh like
(06:36):
several hours, a couple oftimes, and and then I was so
proud.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Maggie all uh I mean she was baiting her own hook,
plus she got a couple of fishand she held them for pictures.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:49):
Oh, you broke right through that that spook ceiling
that's spooked about doing theold fish thing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
That's pretty cool.
I think one fell and you werescreaming because it was
flopping all over.
But I mean you got over it, youjumped right back in there and
held it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:02):
But you know, you've been hunting with me, Maggie.
We've hunted together severaltimes.
Well, furry animals.
SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
Furry animals, oh, okay.
Apparently I just can't doscales.
SPEAKER_03 (07:11):
Okay, you can't do you can do furry animals, but
not scales.
But you know, uh, one of thethings I want your the listeners
to understand, you know, Erica'sbackground really is LE.
You know, I mean that's reallyher background, and then she
came in her later 40s to startshooting sports and then
hunting.
Yeah.
Well, Maggie, yours is almostopposite.
You were doing shooting sports along time ago on several world
(07:34):
teams and all that.
Um, so you're coming now to, youknow, other things like fishing
and and you know, but of course,we've done a lot of hunting, and
what I want to tell women whenthey're scared, right, is we
will make this so much fun foryou.
You will forget the fear factor,you will forget the fear factor,
(07:56):
and you will absolutely fall inlove with being part of the
women's outdoor media.
Yeah.
Because the next thing you know,they're coming back, you know,
again, but now like a jam jamfrom Sheridan, but now she's
bringing friends that have nevertouched a gun.
Right.
And that that's what we did withbabes with bullets for 20 years.
Maggie, you were an instructor.
You know, many a time we hadwomen that that literally had
(08:20):
never they they would touch thegun on the table and say, it
doesn't look like this on themovies.
Yes.
You know, like they had nevertouched a gun.
And so I look at it after 20years of babes with bullets, but
you know, it was it was a greatrun while we did it, right?
And um, and the Walmart, Iprayed, I prayed hard to get a
(08:41):
board on Walmart that would wantto take over as I was stepping,
uh stepping to a different spotin my life, right?
When you're in your 70s, it'sdifferent than being in your 50s
or different.
Hey, we're not in our 50s.
I am yeah, yeah.
But but like I tell people, whenyou have a board.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
Sorry, Eric.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
When you have a board of nothing except people
that are all in your 70s, I'mgonna tell you that's not a
board that's looking for howthey're gonna go forward.
That's a board that's looking atwhat they've already done.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
Okay.
So I prayed and prayed and said,you know, God, if you want Woman
to keep going, you're gonna showme that it's gonna keep going.
And then Erica retired from herjob and took over being a
friend.
Yes, yes, yes, I told you girlsit helps to pray.
I told you, girls.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Yes, I did retire and uh just for them.
Everybody thinks.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Don't laugh.
Her husband thinks he said, youknow, she retired so she could
spend more time with you and thewomb.
I went, and who has a problemwith that?
He's like, Well, obviously youdon't, Debbie.
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
Yes, our uh my office is now the woman
headquarters is what he callsit.
Yes.
And he tells me, you know, youdon't have to put an event on in
order to talk to Deb every day.
I said, Oh, I know.
And sometimes it got to thepoint where he says, Has Deb
called you yet to tell you whatyou're doing for the day?
SPEAKER_03 (10:07):
But you know, I look at it and I say this um, you
know, because we are anall-volunteer board.
So, you know, the fact thatMaggie's on our executive board
and she brings such a wealth ofjust you know, the shooting
sport, she can help us with uhmaybe not fishing, but other
stuff, okay.
But um, I look at our board andI think how blessed are we?
Right?
Yeah.
How bl how blessed are we?
(10:29):
We have some super cool women.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Super cool women that are uh we're all
volunteers, right?
So when what we raise goes on tohelp other female uh veterans or
female law enforcement, and aweird one we're doing this year
that I love because I dored-collar dog rescue in Tucson.
I love the fact that we're doingsomething with the Spike
(10:51):
Foundation, which is to get theright vests for the canines.
Yeah.
So that female deputy isbringing up her dog to our
event, right, to tell the ladiesthis is where some of your money
is going.
And I think it makes such a hugedifference for people to say,
you mean you're an all-volunteercharity foundation that turns
(11:13):
around and gives the money youraise that she never quit to
other charities or to otherpeople.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes, that's exactly what we do.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
But it's it's because of just what you said,
because we can see where it'sgoing.
And it it's right in front ofus, and we can see where it's
going, and we can see that themoney is being utilized to
genuinely help other people andget them to a place where they
need to be in their careers andtheir personal life to support
them through uh maybe a personaltragedy.
Because we have a pretty diverselist of of charities that we
(11:45):
give to.
But um but it we always makesure that we can see where the
money is going.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
And it's very female-centric.
And I personally I really likethat as a mom with two daughters
and and having done so manyfemale-centric things with babes
with bullets and everything, andwe gave a lot of scholarships.
Hyviz helped us give a lot ofscholarships out for women that
couldn't afford babes withbullets.
Yeah.
And um, especially females, uh,their husbands were deployed and
(12:13):
they did not live in good areas,and they'd say we're scared.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
And uh we and Hiviz would say we'll give them a
scholarship.
I mean, that that whole pay itforward is kind of a
never-ending thing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Yeah.
I I love um that we all have Icall it the heart for Woma, you
know, the heart of Woma.
Yes.
And um, like law enforcementveterans, that's a I have a
heart for that.
Yes.
I have a heart to get women outthere and um and I think our
whole board does.
Yes.
You know, to to make thoseexperiences phenomenal for the
(12:46):
women so that they take thatback to their local areas, yeah,
their families, their children,and um give them the confidence
that yeah, I could do this.
You know, I never thought that Iwould be able to hunt, but you
know, just being out there withwith UDeb and and the different
places that I've been, um, it'slike wow, you know, if if
(13:08):
something came up in my areathat was like, hey, come hunt, I
would definitely be there.
SPEAKER_03 (13:13):
Yeah, well, and we're talking about doing one in
October already.
Yes.
October of 26th.
So, you know, one of the thingsI tell people, um, go to
thewoma, w a dot org.
Go there, look under our specialevents because we are gonna be
doing more.
We're doing firearms edition,yes, um, end of April up in
Idaho, Preston, Idaho.
Yep.
(13:33):
I think that one's, am I sayingit right, you guys?
Isn't that one sold out?
It's sold out.
Oh yeah, yes.
Yeah, we've got a wait list.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
We have a wait list.
But get on our wait list, youknow, and look at our other
events and and you know, andthen that helps us gauge too
what to plan for for the nextyear.
Right.
So well, something cute, justjust to make it lighthearted,
something cute is all of us aredog owners.
Yes, you know, obviously.
But me and Erica, we have weboth have the same name for our
(13:59):
dogs.
Yes.
Well, one of our dogs, my dogs.
Both Erica and I, we havepennies.
We actually have pennies.
Lucky pennies.
I know, I know.
So every time she's talkingabout her penny, I'm like, wait,
your penny or my penny?
Yeah.
And then our pennies met just acouple months ago.
So that was.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
Oh, that's right, because you went fishing.
Yeah.
And and they got along great.
Yeah, because they're luckypennies.
They're and then this year I'mgonna be taking my my uh uh
service dog, Mingus, who's amastador, and I'll have uh
Maisie, who's the medical fosterfail, right?
And um and I'll be taking themup to Idaho with me because I'm
(14:38):
in transition then of going frommy winter home up to a summer
home.
Yeah but you know, I want totell people that we are not a
one-trick pony, you know, we areuh uh hunting, fishing, shooting
sports archery, and we reallywork now to do uh a firearms
edition.
You know, and then uh sometimethe summer we're doing the
(15:01):
fishing edition.
Yeah, and then late October of26 we'll be doing the hunting
edition.
Yes.
And I think it's important forpeople to know that we've got
something for the women, youknow, um across the board.
And when we started this in 09,um we really did it thinking we
would be a 501c7, which is likean associate a media
(15:23):
association, but it evolvedyears ago.
What is this our 13th year doingshe never quit?
13th year, 14th year?
I always say the wrong number,so don't ask me.
I I well let's say this way it'sover a dozen years, yeah, right?
Yeah, and here we are, and so Ijust want to tell people um this
is a perfect Christmas gift, getthem on the wait list, right?
(15:45):
It's a perfect uh Valentine'sgift.
If we can't get them on thislist, we hold them over and see
if they want to do somethingelse with us.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but nowhere will they ever goand find such a lack of ego and
uh and a pelethra of wanting youto be better.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
Not I don't need it to make me better, right?
Um I I need it to make thembetter.
And when Maggie was aninstructor, Kay Mitchlich was
our head instructor, LisaMunson, I would say if we looked
at all of our instructors thatwere with Bays with Bullets that
we've now carried over to SheNever Quit, I would say if we
counted up state, national, andworld titles for all those
(16:31):
instructors, and I'm not kiddingyou, but I'll bet you we're in
the we're in the four to fivedozen, if not over a hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
I I would say over a hundred.
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
Over a hundred.
Yeah.
And I'm just saying, so you'rebeing taught and uh by the top
in the country.
In the country.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And what's the one thing they don't do?
They don't bring to the linewith them.
And I can tell you this becauseI've watched Maggie, I've
watched Lisa, I've watched, I'vewatched Keller with OA guns,
right?
They don't bring ego.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Do you know at uh she never quit a couple years
ago?
I was in a group, we were wewere all talking, and it was
some instructors, and I said, Idon't even know what I did to be
here.
Because I'm not a shooter, I'mnot an instructor, I'm not cool
like everybody, and um everybodysaid the same thing.
And I said, What?
(17:20):
Like I'm the least I I just saidyes, yes.
And that's how I got involved inthis group.
Yeah, and sometimes I'm justlike, I don't know how I'm still
involved in this group.
But I told her this morning.
Everybody said the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
I told her this morning, I said, Erica, you are,
and I don't know if you're gonnahave to believe this later, but
I go, you are president and headin charge.
Like you are like yeah.
I'm like, no.
Like you are!
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
You are HBIC.
You know what's funny is becausewe all work together so well, I
don't even feel like it.
It's just, you know, we we alljust come together, and that's
why I say it's just you know, wehave the the heart of Woma.
Yes.
You know, we all just cometogether, everybody works
together, and and we do this outof you know, out of our passion,
(18:08):
not our ego, not because we wantrecognition.
It's totally out of passion thatwe have to, like you said, make
other people better.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Yep, make other people better.
And the b bottom line is is Ihate to put it this way, but
sometimes help them make theirbetter life choices.
Um I think sometimes it's justgetting them over the hump.
So many women so scared to be ona gun range, so scared to do
take that first shot at a whileat a feral hog.
(18:37):
I mean, so and my thing is isthat what people don't see often
is that that confidencetranslates to so many other
confidences in their life.
Like I want to ask for thatpromotion at work.
Yeah.
I've got nothing to lose.
If I can do this, I can doanything.
(18:57):
Absolutely.
And and that's that's huge forme.
You know, that that's hugebecause you guys know how I feel
about this.
Um, your audience will be waytoo young to recognize the fact
that when I wrote my book, youknow, the Babes with Bullets
book, years ago, now I'm writinga second book about living
outside your comfort zone.
And I say, and I've used thesame quote both times.
(19:21):
And it was Irma Bombbeck, acolumnist from decades ago, who
said, When I stand before God atthe end of my days, I want to be
able to look at him and say, Iused every talent you gave me.
And I look at that and say,That's what I want.
That's what I want.
Because you girls know how womenknow how I feel.
(19:41):
I I feel we you got a checksitting on, you got a check from
God sitting on your dresser, yougot a check from God sitting on
your dresser, I got one.
Um are we cashing our check andand using that check he gave us?
Maybe it's that um, maybe it'sthat um you're a great
instructor and you're a goodshooter.
And you know, Maggie, noteverybody can do that.
(20:03):
So when people look at that andsay, well, I would have never
thought one would have equatedto the other, but it's all a
skill set, right?
And that's what I tell women allthe time, take that check and
cash it, because you don't knowwhat other gifts God has for
you.
And to quote a Helen Keller,right?
Life is either a daringadventure or nothing.
(20:25):
And I think I think if HelenKeller can make it, right, so
can I, right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Deb's life is a daring adventure.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I don't know if I, you know,every time I go hiking, you
know, I hike about four miles aday up in the mountains, right?
And every time I go hiking, um,I'm always bleeding, right?
And they go, What are you doing?
I said, Well, I said, you know,in some cases, you know,
everything in the desert sticksyou picks you and hurts you.
In some cases, you fall down thewrong the wrong uh wash and
(20:57):
scrape yourself on the but Ilooked at it and I just go long
way from long way from theheart.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
Deb, it's been nice having you on our podcast.
Well, I love it.
It's been, yeah, and thank youfor actually, you know, creating
the Woma and um just doing allthese things for women.
Um the podcast is amazing.
This is like my dream come true.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
So well, I want to tell you, you girls, you you
ladies, the ladies we've theyare they are the future.
They are the future.
You know, um Outdoor WritersAssociation of America is
pushing a hundred years old.
Wow.
Right?
100 years old, yeah.
And it's ebbs and flows.
You know, that's just the way itgoes, ebbs and flows.
(21:41):
And I look at the woman and Isay to myself, you know, thank
you, God, because I asked forcommitted women that wanted to
embrace other women's programs,and he brought me Ugirls.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Oh, thank you, Deb.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Um so check out thewoma.org.
Yep.
If people want to get a hold ofyou.
SPEAKER_03 (22:02):
All they have to do is it's deb at the woman.org,
right?
That's my email, deb at thewoman.org, and uh check out the
events because that really tellsyou what's going on.
And if somebody's got a reallygood podcast worthy, um maybe
it's uh thermal, you know, uhscope, or maybe it's you know,
whatever, um, make sure youreach out because we do fill up
(22:26):
podcasts, and you'll bepodcasting again at uh NRA.
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
Yes, I believe so.
SPEAKER_03 (22:31):
Okay, so if you're gonna be podcasting again, open
up the door.
Let's get some new women in.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
We love it.
Have a great show.
Thank you.
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
I'm Erica Chin.
I am here with Maggie Reese asmy co-host, and we are at 2026
Shot Show in the Otis Technologybooth.
That um is pretty cool,actually.
It's very uh professional.
SPEAKER_03 (00:32):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
And we are here with Deb Ferns, the founder of the
Women's Outdoor MediaAssociation.
Yay! Uh Babes with Bullets.
Um there is a list when sheemails you, she has a whole list
of things.
What can I tell you?
Dog rescue, uh horse rescue.
Yes.
So um we're excited to have Debon because um I mean we're like
(00:57):
family.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Well, speak for yourself.
I'm this is the one I was likethe most nervous for because Dev
and I, we've I mean we've knowneach other for so long, and we
have so many stories, and mostof them cannot be told.
And some secrets.
(01:19):
Like we can some of this stuffshould just not go out to the
public.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24):
Well, she was not far off based on that one,
right?
But you know, we always say,what's my favorite saying?
That's not my fault.
SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
That is Debs.
That's my go-to.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
It's not my fault.
Should we define Seafock?
Or Well, I'm the princess ofSuffolk, but you guys call it
Seafock, which is not as sexy.
And it's uh the cosmic forces ofchaos.
Yes, yes, yes.
Because if weird stuff happens,it's normally not my fault, but
(01:57):
somehow I'm always in themiddle.
Oh.
And then she has pictures toprove it.
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Which is amazing.
Yes, always.
SPEAKER_03 (02:06):
She's like, let me show you that picture.
Well, because people say if youdon't have a video or picture,
it didn't happen, right?
But anyway, and you guys haveall driven with me, so you know
in my van, in my motorhome,whatever, I've got an adventure
bell.
Yes.
And you have to ding theadventure bell when we leave the
driveway because we've also allslept with you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
See, and that was one of the things.
I was like, should that go out,like for public knowledge that
we've all slept in.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
I think Deb is pretty open about it.
SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
When we were doing babes with bullets, I would uh
look around a campfire and lookat all the different
instructors, everything, andthink, oh, I have slept with you
all.
And then Kixlik looks at me andgoes, Why do you have to say
that?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
But see, I'm at the point now where I feel like I've
put in my time.
I I put in my time sleeping withyou.
Okay.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Maggie has refused to be in the same bed as Deb,
even though we wererochambeauing the other night
about it.
Too much flopping andeverything.
SPEAKER_03 (03:05):
So um, you know, well, basically what we do is we
make a pajama party fun.
Yes, right.
We do.
We make a pajama party fun.
And when we started uh the Womain 2009, right, um, it was
actually, I was having thatconversation with Ted Nugent,
and um he was like, if you wantsomething for women, he says you
have to build it.
(03:25):
And I thought to myself, thatsounded like a dare.
Challenge accepted.
Challenge accepted.
And so, and and really thinkabout it.
You gals have been with us foryears and years and years and
years.
Mission statement never changed.
Yeah.
To introduce more women andtheir stories in fishing,
hunting, archery, and shootingsports.
(03:48):
Yeah, right.
That's exactly what we're doing.
Yeah, when uh, you know, whenMaggie and I were in Namibia
together doing a hunt, right?
It was all about doing somethingdifferent.
We, you know, uh somethingoutside our comfort zone.
When we go hunting in a highfence in Texas, a lot 90% of
those girls have never been on ahunt before that we mentor.
(04:09):
It's no different, Maggie, thanwhat we do at She Never Quit,
with how many women we get at aShe Never Quit event held every
spring, they've not shot.
And even if they've shot theirgun, they've not shot like a
Henry.
Yes.
Or they haven't shot a shotgun,right?
Like a they want to try aMossburg shotgun or or a
(04:30):
Benelli, right?
SPEAKER_00 (04:32):
Dad, the reason why I shoot is because of you.
I got in Babes with Bulletsthree gun match.
Yeah.
Was because of Babes withBullets.
Right.
Um my husband got me into threegun, and that's the only reason
why I got into three gun was togo to that match.
Um as far as hunting, you're theone that took me out hunting for
the first time when I was in my40s.
Yep.
SPEAKER_03 (04:52):
I mean, uh And you killed your you killed your
piggy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:55):
Yes, yes.
And so, you know, it isimportant for my life.
Wilma has been important becauseI've done a lot of firsts with
with you and the things thatyou're involved in.
Um, and I'm one of those ladiesthat, you know, didn't really
hunt and fish when I mean Ididn't hunt at all.
I fished a little bit when I wasa kid with like my grandfather
and my father.
(05:15):
But other than that, uh, Iwasn't exposed to any of that
until I met you.
SPEAKER_03 (05:20):
Well, you know, the adventure began.
It's all about paying itforward.
And you know, I met Maggiebecause she's been a competitive
shooter a long time.
unknown (05:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
And it it's it's funny how the circle just goes
around and around.
That's kind of been a a theme ofwhat we've been talking about on
these podcasts, is just womeninfluencing other women.
And but I'm sitting here and I'mlike, okay, well, I got to go
fishing with Erica, which wassuper, super fun.
I stopped screaming abouthalfway through the day.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (05:48):
And actually touched, like, touched a fish
and put it on her hook.
See, I like fishing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
I like the beer drinking part of fishing, I like
the standing there part offishing.
I did not like the hooking of mylittle bait fish, though.
And so I screamed the entiretime and it was like, oh, it's
wiggling and it it's slimy andit's got scales on it, and
Erica, what do I do?
And I dropped like 12 bait fish.
(06:14):
And the guys on the boat werereally not impressed.
And I kept thinking to myself,like, the whole time, like, they
would not believe me if I toldthem what I do for a living.
Because they like they here Ican't handle like a little bait
fish, you know.
But I had Erica to like be like,I'm gonna mentor you through
this.
Like we we got this.
You you can touch the fish, andit only took, you know, uh like
(06:36):
several hours, a couple oftimes, and and then I was so
proud.
SPEAKER_00 (06:41):
Maggie all uh I mean she was baiting her own hook,
plus she got a couple of fishand she held them for pictures.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (06:49):
Oh, you broke right through that that spook ceiling
that's spooked about doing theold fish thing.
SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
That's pretty cool.
I think one fell and you werescreaming because it was
flopping all over.
But I mean you got over it, youjumped right back in there and
held it.
SPEAKER_03 (07:02):
But you know, you've been hunting with me, Maggie.
We've hunted together severaltimes.
Well, furry animals.
SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
Furry animals, oh, okay.
Apparently I just can't doscales.
SPEAKER_03 (07:11):
Okay, you can't do you can do furry animals, but
not scales.
But you know, uh, one of thethings I want your the listeners
to understand, you know, Erica'sbackground really is LE.
You know, I mean that's reallyher background, and then she
came in her later 40s to startshooting sports and then
hunting.
Yeah.
Well, Maggie, yours is almostopposite.
You were doing shooting sports along time ago on several world
(07:34):
teams and all that.
Um, so you're coming now to, youknow, other things like fishing
and and you know, but of course,we've done a lot of hunting, and
what I want to tell women whenthey're scared, right, is we
will make this so much fun foryou.
You will forget the fear factor,you will forget the fear factor,
(07:56):
and you will absolutely fall inlove with being part of the
women's outdoor media.
Yeah.
Because the next thing you know,they're coming back, you know,
again, but now like a jam jamfrom Sheridan, but now she's
bringing friends that have nevertouched a gun.
Right.
And that that's what we did withbabes with bullets for 20 years.
Maggie, you were an instructor.
You know, many a time we hadwomen that that literally had
(08:20):
never they they would touch thegun on the table and say, it
doesn't look like this on themovies.
Yes.
You know, like they had nevertouched a gun.
And so I look at it after 20years of babes with bullets, but
you know, it was it was a greatrun while we did it, right?
And um, and the Walmart, Iprayed, I prayed hard to get a
(08:41):
board on Walmart that would wantto take over as I was stepping,
uh stepping to a different spotin my life, right?
When you're in your 70s, it'sdifferent than being in your 50s
or different.
Hey, we're not in our 50s.
I am yeah, yeah.
But but like I tell people, whenyou have a board.
SPEAKER_01 (09:00):
Sorry, Eric.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
When you have a board of nothing except people
that are all in your 70s, I'mgonna tell you that's not a
board that's looking for howthey're gonna go forward.
That's a board that's looking atwhat they've already done.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
Okay.
So I prayed and prayed and said,you know, God, if you want Woman
to keep going, you're gonna showme that it's gonna keep going.
And then Erica retired from herjob and took over being a
friend.
Yes, yes, yes, I told you girlsit helps to pray.
I told you, girls.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
Yes, I did retire and uh just for them.
Everybody thinks.
SPEAKER_03 (09:39):
Don't laugh.
Her husband thinks he said, youknow, she retired so she could
spend more time with you and thewomb.
I went, and who has a problemwith that?
He's like, Well, obviously youdon't, Debbie.
SPEAKER_00 (09:50):
Yes, our uh my office is now the woman
headquarters is what he callsit.
Yes.
And he tells me, you know, youdon't have to put an event on in
order to talk to Deb every day.
I said, Oh, I know.
And sometimes it got to thepoint where he says, Has Deb
called you yet to tell you whatyou're doing for the day?
SPEAKER_03 (10:07):
But you know, I look at it and I say this um, you
know, because we are anall-volunteer board.
So, you know, the fact thatMaggie's on our executive board
and she brings such a wealth ofjust you know, the shooting
sport, she can help us with uhmaybe not fishing, but other
stuff, okay.
But um, I look at our board andI think how blessed are we?
Right?
Yeah.
How bl how blessed are we?
(10:29):
We have some super cool women.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Super cool women that are uh we're all
volunteers, right?
So when what we raise goes on tohelp other female uh veterans or
female law enforcement, and aweird one we're doing this year
that I love because I dored-collar dog rescue in Tucson.
I love the fact that we're doingsomething with the Spike
(10:51):
Foundation, which is to get theright vests for the canines.
Yeah.
So that female deputy isbringing up her dog to our
event, right, to tell the ladiesthis is where some of your money
is going.
And I think it makes such a hugedifference for people to say,
you mean you're an all-volunteercharity foundation that turns
(11:13):
around and gives the money youraise that she never quit to
other charities or to otherpeople.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes, that's exactly what we do.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
But it's it's because of just what you said,
because we can see where it'sgoing.
And it it's right in front ofus, and we can see where it's
going, and we can see that themoney is being utilized to
genuinely help other people andget them to a place where they
need to be in their careers andtheir personal life to support
them through uh maybe a personaltragedy.
Because we have a pretty diverselist of of charities that we
(11:45):
give to.
But um but it we always makesure that we can see where the
money is going.
SPEAKER_03 (11:50):
And it's very female-centric.
And I personally I really likethat as a mom with two daughters
and and having done so manyfemale-centric things with babes
with bullets and everything, andwe gave a lot of scholarships.
Hyviz helped us give a lot ofscholarships out for women that
couldn't afford babes withbullets.
Yeah.
And um, especially females, uh,their husbands were deployed and
(12:13):
they did not live in good areas,and they'd say we're scared.
SPEAKER_02 (12:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:16):
And uh we and Hiviz would say we'll give them a
scholarship.
I mean, that that whole pay itforward is kind of a
never-ending thing.
SPEAKER_00 (12:25):
Yeah.
I I love um that we all have Icall it the heart for Woma, you
know, the heart of Woma.
Yes.
And um, like law enforcementveterans, that's a I have a
heart for that.
Yes.
I have a heart to get women outthere and um and I think our
whole board does.
Yes.
You know, to to make thoseexperiences phenomenal for the
(12:46):
women so that they take thatback to their local areas, yeah,
their families, their children,and um give them the confidence
that yeah, I could do this.
You know, I never thought that Iwould be able to hunt, but you
know, just being out there withwith UDeb and and the different
places that I've been, um, it'slike wow, you know, if if
(13:08):
something came up in my areathat was like, hey, come hunt, I
would definitely be there.
SPEAKER_03 (13:13):
Yeah, well, and we're talking about doing one in
October already.
Yes.
October of 26th.
So, you know, one of the thingsI tell people, um, go to
thewoma, w a dot org.
Go there, look under our specialevents because we are gonna be
doing more.
We're doing firearms edition,yes, um, end of April up in
Idaho, Preston, Idaho.
Yep.
(13:33):
I think that one's, am I sayingit right, you guys?
Isn't that one sold out?
It's sold out.
Oh yeah, yes.
Yeah, we've got a wait list.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
We have a wait list.
But get on our wait list, youknow, and look at our other
events and and you know, andthen that helps us gauge too
what to plan for for the nextyear.
Right.
So well, something cute, justjust to make it lighthearted,
something cute is all of us aredog owners.
Yes, you know, obviously.
But me and Erica, we have weboth have the same name for our
(13:59):
dogs.
Yes.
Well, one of our dogs, my dogs.
Both Erica and I, we havepennies.
We actually have pennies.
Lucky pennies.
I know, I know.
So every time she's talkingabout her penny, I'm like, wait,
your penny or my penny?
Yeah.
And then our pennies met just acouple months ago.
So that was.
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
Oh, that's right, because you went fishing.
Yeah.
And and they got along great.
Yeah, because they're luckypennies.
They're and then this year I'mgonna be taking my my uh uh
service dog, Mingus, who's amastador, and I'll have uh
Maisie, who's the medical fosterfail, right?
And um and I'll be taking themup to Idaho with me because I'm
(14:38):
in transition then of going frommy winter home up to a summer
home.
Yeah but you know, I want totell people that we are not a
one-trick pony, you know, we areuh uh hunting, fishing, shooting
sports archery, and we reallywork now to do uh a firearms
edition.
You know, and then uh sometimethe summer we're doing the
(15:01):
fishing edition.
Yeah, and then late October of26 we'll be doing the hunting
edition.
Yes.
And I think it's important forpeople to know that we've got
something for the women, youknow, um across the board.
And when we started this in 09,um we really did it thinking we
would be a 501c7, which is likean associate a media
(15:23):
association, but it evolvedyears ago.
What is this our 13th year doingshe never quit?
13th year, 14th year?
I always say the wrong number,so don't ask me.
I I well let's say this way it'sover a dozen years, yeah, right?
Yeah, and here we are, and so Ijust want to tell people um this
is a perfect Christmas gift, getthem on the wait list, right?
(15:45):
It's a perfect uh Valentine'sgift.
If we can't get them on thislist, we hold them over and see
if they want to do somethingelse with us.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but nowhere will they ever goand find such a lack of ego and
uh and a pelethra of wanting youto be better.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:06):
Not I don't need it to make me better, right?
Um I I need it to make thembetter.
And when Maggie was aninstructor, Kay Mitchlich was
our head instructor, LisaMunson, I would say if we looked
at all of our instructors thatwere with Bays with Bullets that
we've now carried over to SheNever Quit, I would say if we
counted up state, national, andworld titles for all those
(16:31):
instructors, and I'm not kiddingyou, but I'll bet you we're in
the we're in the four to fivedozen, if not over a hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
I I would say over a hundred.
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
Over a hundred.
Yeah.
And I'm just saying, so you'rebeing taught and uh by the top
in the country.
In the country.
SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (16:48):
And what's the one thing they don't do?
They don't bring to the linewith them.
And I can tell you this becauseI've watched Maggie, I've
watched Lisa, I've watched, I'vewatched Keller with OA guns,
right?
They don't bring ego.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Do you know at uh she never quit a couple years
ago?
I was in a group, we were wewere all talking, and it was
some instructors, and I said, Idon't even know what I did to be
here.
Because I'm not a shooter, I'mnot an instructor, I'm not cool
like everybody, and um everybodysaid the same thing.
And I said, What?
(17:20):
Like I'm the least I I just saidyes, yes.
And that's how I got involved inthis group.
Yeah, and sometimes I'm justlike, I don't know how I'm still
involved in this group.
But I told her this morning.
Everybody said the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
I told her this morning, I said, Erica, you are,
and I don't know if you're gonnahave to believe this later, but
I go, you are president and headin charge.
Like you are like yeah.
I'm like, no.
Like you are!
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
You are HBIC.
You know what's funny is becausewe all work together so well, I
don't even feel like it.
It's just, you know, we we alljust come together, and that's
why I say it's just you know, wehave the the heart of Woma.
Yes.
You know, we all just cometogether, everybody works
together, and and we do this outof you know, out of our passion,
(18:08):
not our ego, not because we wantrecognition.
It's totally out of passion thatwe have to, like you said, make
other people better.
SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Yep, make other people better.
And the b bottom line is is Ihate to put it this way, but
sometimes help them make theirbetter life choices.
Um I think sometimes it's justgetting them over the hump.
So many women so scared to be ona gun range, so scared to do
take that first shot at a whileat a feral hog.
(18:37):
I mean, so and my thing is isthat what people don't see often
is that that confidencetranslates to so many other
confidences in their life.
Like I want to ask for thatpromotion at work.
Yeah.
I've got nothing to lose.
If I can do this, I can doanything.
(18:57):
Absolutely.
And and that's that's huge forme.
You know, that that's hugebecause you guys know how I feel
about this.
Um, your audience will be waytoo young to recognize the fact
that when I wrote my book, youknow, the Babes with Bullets
book, years ago, now I'm writinga second book about living
outside your comfort zone.
And I say, and I've used thesame quote both times.
(19:21):
And it was Irma Bombbeck, acolumnist from decades ago, who
said, When I stand before God atthe end of my days, I want to be
able to look at him and say, Iused every talent you gave me.
And I look at that and say,That's what I want.
That's what I want.
Because you girls know how womenknow how I feel.
(19:41):
I I feel we you got a checksitting on, you got a check from
God sitting on your dresser, yougot a check from God sitting on
your dresser, I got one.
Um are we cashing our check andand using that check he gave us?
Maybe it's that um, maybe it'sthat um you're a great
instructor and you're a goodshooter.
And you know, Maggie, noteverybody can do that.
(20:03):
So when people look at that andsay, well, I would have never
thought one would have equatedto the other, but it's all a
skill set, right?
And that's what I tell women allthe time, take that check and
cash it, because you don't knowwhat other gifts God has for
you.
And to quote a Helen Keller,right?
Life is either a daringadventure or nothing.
(20:25):
And I think I think if HelenKeller can make it, right, so
can I, right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Deb's life is a daring adventure.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I don't know if I, you know,every time I go hiking, you
know, I hike about four miles aday up in the mountains, right?
And every time I go hiking, um,I'm always bleeding, right?
And they go, What are you doing?
I said, Well, I said, you know,in some cases, you know,
everything in the desert sticksyou picks you and hurts you.
In some cases, you fall down thewrong the wrong uh wash and
(20:57):
scrape yourself on the but Ilooked at it and I just go long
way from long way from theheart.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
Deb, it's been nice having you on our podcast.
Well, I love it.
It's been, yeah, and thank youfor actually, you know, creating
the Woma and um just doing allthese things for women.
Um the podcast is amazing.
This is like my dream come true.
SPEAKER_03 (21:20):
So well, I want to tell you, you girls, you you
ladies, the ladies we've theyare they are the future.
They are the future.
You know, um Outdoor WritersAssociation of America is
pushing a hundred years old.
Wow.
Right?
100 years old, yeah.
And it's ebbs and flows.
You know, that's just the way itgoes, ebbs and flows.
(21:41):
And I look at the woman and Isay to myself, you know, thank
you, God, because I asked forcommitted women that wanted to
embrace other women's programs,and he brought me Ugirls.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Oh, thank you, Deb.
SPEAKER_03 (21:55):
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Um so check out thewoma.org.
Yep.
If people want to get a hold ofyou.
SPEAKER_03 (22:02):
All they have to do is it's deb at the woman.org,
right?
That's my email, deb at thewoman.org, and uh check out the
events because that really tellsyou what's going on.
And if somebody's got a reallygood podcast worthy, um maybe
it's uh thermal, you know, uhscope, or maybe it's you know,
whatever, um, make sure youreach out because we do fill up
(22:26):
podcasts, and you'll bepodcasting again at uh NRA.
SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
Yes, I believe so.
SPEAKER_03 (22:31):
Okay, so if you're gonna be podcasting again, open
up the door.
Let's get some new women in.
Awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
We love it.
Have a great show.
Thank you.
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