August 30, 2026 • 23 mins
Are you curious about how women are making their mark in the world of shotgun sports? On this episode of the Amateurs and Experts Podcast, hosts Erica Chin and Maggie Reese chat with NRA Woman of the Year Anne Mauro live from the 2026 SHOT Show. Anne shares how she got started in clay target shooting and how using ill-fitting equipment early on inspired her to help design shotguns that fit women better. She explains that anyone can excel with the right instruction, proper equipment, and dedicated practice.
The hosts and Anne talk about overcoming obstacles on the range, including handling bad shooting days and learning the fundamentals of target flight. Anne highlights her work founding the University of Maryland shooting team and hosting an inclusive ladies' tournament at the NSCA Nationals in San Antonio. She encourages all new shooters to step up to the station and enjoy the sport, regardless of their skill level. To learn more about her annual tournament or get involved in clay sports, listeners can check out ScoreChaser.com or sign up for events with the National Sporting Clays Association.
Links
- Timestamp 19:38: Find registration details for the NSCA Nationals in San Antonio at ScoreChaser.com.
Key Takeaways
- Importance of Gun Fit: Factory shotguns are typically built for average-height men; improper fit causes physical discomfort, bruising, and poor target alignment, especially for women or smaller-framed shooters.
- Growing Female Participation: Women are increasingly becoming a major force in shooting sports, particularly in clay target disciplines.
- Dedication and Training: Developing high-level skill requires mastering basic target parameters (speed, angle, and distance) and maintaining focus through slump periods.
- Inclusive Opportunities: The NSCA Nationals Ladies Open in San Antonio provides an accessible entry point and supportive environment for women shooters of all skill levels.
- Collegiate Shooting Growth: Student-led shooting programs, such as the team Anne Mauro founded at the University of Maryland, play a key role in bringing young competitors into the sport.
Key Words Used
- SHOT Show
- Otis Technology
- Amateurs and Experts Podcast
- Anne Morrow
- NRA Woman of the Year
- Sporting Clays
- Trap
- Skeet
- Gun Fitting
- Length of Pull
- University of Maryland
- NSCA (National Sporting Clays Association)
- ScoreChaser
- Cole Gun Crafting
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
I'm Erica Chin and I'm here withMaggie Reese.
We are your hosts and we are at2026 Shot Show in the Otis
Technology Booth, this beautifuluh podcast booth that they
allowed us to be here.
And um we have one of the nicestladies out there.
(00:33):
I mean, I I kinda I have to saythat I I fangirl a little bit.
Um she's wonderful, she's a hugename in the industry.
She's done so much.
Um she's actually NRA woman ofthe year.
Um Anne Morrow.
Welcome, Anne.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me, Erica and Maggie.
(00:54):
It's a true pleasure to be here.
It's an honor.
It's I mean, it's an honor foruh me to be sitting across this
table from you.
Um like I said, I told Maggie, Isaid, oh my gosh, I I hope I
don't fangirl too much.
But there's always, I don'tknow, it's really cool to be
able to podcast with people.
And it just seems like everyyear I have at least one or two
(01:14):
people that I just like totallyfangirl about.
And you're it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Oh well that's that's it's and that's really
you know, I get I truly get, aswe were talking about earlier,
kind of, you know, a littlechuckle over it because I I
truly am very humble in what Iwhat I do and um and what I give
back because it's all aboutgrowing women in the sport.
Um you've done a great job ofit.
I've worked very hard at it andum you know and I absolutely
(01:39):
love what I do.
I love all the you know whatit's taken to get what's out
there today for women and it'samazing to see the growth of
women, um, especially in the theshotgunning sports, is my kind
of forte there.
So that's that's it.
But it's just you know, if westart somewhere and just all
throughout the whole industry,they start to see we're we're
becoming a force to be reckonedwith, which is good.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
See, I have the same experience.
Like when I started shooting,you know, and I won't say how
long ago that was, but it was awhile ago.
And when I would go to therange, I was the only woman
there.
Like it was just me, and menwould come up to me and say, Are
you like, are you looking foryour dad?
Are you looking for yourhusband?
Like, I'm not like I was justthe only kid out there.
(02:22):
So now we're getting to theplace where it's like, okay,
there's quite a few women andpeople are really embracing all
the different sports and and notbeing intimidated out of it.
Like they're finding their ownplace and their own growth, and
that's so exciting just to seechange over the years.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
And I've I've had that where you know you're
you're at the range and theycome up and they're like, oh,
oh, you've got a gun in yourhand, let me help you.
Yeah.
And then they try to truly doout with it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Because it is a very helpful sport, but it's also a
little bit like, hey buddy, Igot this.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
And I've had those where they come up and it's
like, oh, let me load that, letme show you.
I'm gonna stand right here withyou.
And I will, I actually I'm kindof bad in a way because I'll
play along with it.
And I'll actually fucking helptoo many people know me because
they're like, I don't know ifshe's but you know, back in the
day I could kind of just playthem a little bit, which is
probably a bad thing to do, butI had fun doing it.
(03:15):
And you know, they would sitthere and it's like, and this is
what you do, and here's what youdo, and then I would just load
and roll right into the mouth,you know, crush targets, and I
was like, Well, thank you.
You're a really good teacher.
I appreciate that.
And uh, you know, then they'relike, Oh, I guess you know
something, and it's like a thingor two.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So uh I had a funny moment, like I was shooting a
pistol match just like a coupleweeks ago, and I just I had a
smoke and run.
I'm not gonna lie.
I like I had a smoke and run,and it was really, really good.
And some guys were watchingbehind me and they and they say
to my squad mates, they're like,hey, you know, that that was
really good for a girl.
And my squad mates turned aroundand they're like, no, that was
just really good.
(03:52):
Period.
Like, and like there was noqualifier behind it.
Like, she smoked that run.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
You know.
And I've been um T T is abeautiful indoor range in Utah.
Um really cool sporting.
I mean, it's sporting claysindoors.
I mean, that's like unheard of.
There's very few places aroundthe world that that do that.
And I'm talking actual clays,not not some video game that
you're shooting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
And um, I'm in my my little bay there that I'm in,
and it's so funny.
We go down, and I'm justcrushing these targets, and all
of a sudden you see the guys,they step back, they look, and
they're like, that's a girlthere.
And they just got a big kick outof it, and I got a kick, you
know, it's a lot of it's a lotof fun, but there's nothing we
can't do if we put our minds toit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
I've always been taught that, so yeah.
I think that you're being alittle like uh very humble when
you say that you've helped inthe women's sport.
Um, because if there's a ladyshotgun out there, you've
probably helped design it.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I've had a lot of help in a lot of the guns that
are out there, and or they havebeen um some of the other
companies that have picked upand have moved on, they've taken
parts and pieces, they'vedeveloped greater, they've
fine-tuned things, which iswonderful to see.
Um is there any such thing as aperfect shotgun for anybody?
No.
I mean it's all a matter of youknow, getting something fit
(05:12):
properly to you, and then um butthere's choices now, which is so
nice, because for the longesttime it was that standard, you
know, gun out of a box that wasmeant for the, you know, the six
foot tall, five ten, eleven,whatever man there.
Right.
And none of that ever fit me,and that's where this all really
kind of came about.
And standing barely five foottwo, I would I absolutely loved
(05:35):
when I first started shooting.
And um, I would have to take thebutt pad off a rental gun, and I
shot bare wood the first ninemonths I was learning to shoot.
But I loved it that much, andlike I said, I used to break
open those instant ice packs, Iput them down my arms because my
arms hurt so bad.
I was I mean, I was black andblue.
I was everything because nothingfit.
(05:55):
The grip never fit my hand.
Are we gonna design a gun whenI'm designing to fit me at my
stature?
No, but we find or designsomething that's more in the
middle for that average heightwoman that then we can cut down
slightly if need be, but alsoto, you know, lengthen the
length of pull if need be.
But then no matter what thebrand is, it's really because
(06:16):
there's so many great brandsobviously out there.
It's finding what works in yourbudget, finding things to get to
fit you the best, getting somegood instruction, and then just
getting out there and shootingand having a good time, then
learning.
It's a journey.
Nothing happens overnight withany of this.
You can't get upset withyourself.
We all have good days and baddays when we shoot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
I can't tell you how important that is because I'm
actually I just started shootingmore sporting clays and trap and
stuff like that.
And and I'm not good at all.
Like, you know, I'm not good atall.
But right now I'm shooting myhusband's shotgun.
And I'm like, you know, doingall this extra work because it
is not designed for me.
And it makes such a difference.
(06:56):
Like, I'm just I'm I'm waitingfor the dollars to roll in.
So I but once I get my ownshotgun, I know that I'm just it
it's gonna improve my scoreimmediately because it will be
designed for me.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
And when and I'm always when people say, Oh,
well, I'm not, I'm not good.
I'm not good.
It's not that you're not good,you just haven't learned certain
things yet.
Yeah.
And you have to learn, you haveto get that education, that
knowledge base, and thenpractice with it.
So, but fighting a gun that'seither way too long or too short
or something with you, that youknow, if you spend all this time
and you see, especially women,they spend a lot of time kind of
(07:29):
you know trying to get theirhead in the gun, trying to get,
you know, we're designedobviously differently through
the chest, everything.
Um, and and working with allthat, by the time we finally get
comfortable, well, that gunstarts to get happy.
And you know, that potentiallyeight-pound gun that you're
holding there, and then all of asudden by the time you call
pole, you're like, oh, you justthat breath comes out, you relax
your shoulders, everything goesdown, and it's like, gosh, all
(07:51):
that work, and I missed thatgun.
Now I gotta get back through,miss that target, and I gotta
get back in and do it again.
It wears you out.
SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Well, and that's I'm behind right now because I'm I'm
so tired, you know, lifting itup and chasing it like that I
can't catch up right now.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
And then you have to learn the fundamentals of that
target.
And every target has an angle, aspeed, and a distance to it, and
you've got to learn all thelittle nuances of everything.
And then with each sport, eachdiscipline, whether it's trap
has their own, ski has theirown, then when you get into the
international disciplines, youget into sporting clays and feet
and five stand.
I mean, there's just so manygreat games out there for us to
(08:27):
play in the sport.
And I'm all about the sport.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
So one thing that um we had talked about earlier,
like several months ago, was umhow you practiced and actually
shot without like you could youcould shoot without seeing the
target.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Oh, well there's there's a well you shoot by f
there's like a feel.
Are you talking about when wewere talking about how you feel?
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Yeah, instead of because uh well we were talking
about how um one of the veteransthat wanted to come out and
shoot with us uh couldn't she'sblind.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
And you were telling me how you basically were
practicing like that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
Yes, actually I had someone teach me, I'm actually
known for my distance shootingand for taking dropping targets.
And I would have very early onwhen I was learning, I had some
keep I mean, I would go to therange before it would even open,
and they would put me out thereas the sun was coming up, and
they would sit there and youknow, I would they would have me
(09:26):
watch the target in flight andwhat it would do, then they'd
put a little blindfold down andI'd listen for the machine to go
off.
I'd have my gun set just rightand then do because they was I'm
serious.
What is happening now?
Are you kidding me?
I'm not kidding me.
And then you would look becausethe targets were so at at a
(09:47):
distance, but you wereprogramming now.
Someone that can't see, youknow, because they're not
getting that visual, I wouldhave that visual prior, then I'd
shut down the vision.
Um it's just like when you'relearning to fly an airplane,
when you start to do yourinstrument ratings, do all this,
you know, you're you you have ahood down, so you don't get to
see anything around you to see,so you're flying in total, you
(10:07):
know, just you're yourinstruments.
This is what I'm not seeingwhat's outside to know what's
going on.
Um, and um so there was that,and you would then they were so
far, and you'd pull the trigger,and then you know, you'd then
lift up and watch, and thenpoof, you'd see that target
break, and it's like, wow.
And it wasn't like, oh, thispure luck, you could do it just
one time, and that was itconsistently.
(10:30):
And that's where I reallylearned a lot of the the
distance and that andeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
So that's so cool, but you know what?
What I really took away fromthat is that you were the first
person on the range.
And and the dedication, like youknow, like you have to have that
love and that passion and thatdrive to get out there and be
the first person on the rangeand to fight through the
equipment and the bruising andall of this, and just say, I
(10:57):
love it so much that I want toexcel.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Absolutely.
And it was a ch it still is achallenge, you know, to to this
day.
But we all have great days andbad days and all of that.
So how do you get yourself outof a bad day?
It's you know, this is what'sinteresting.
So um a couple years ago, goingback, I guess maybe it was like
three years ago, my dad he hebecame became like he had to
(11:21):
finally go into a place, and Iwas taking care of him and lost
my mom earlier.
We all deal with things in life,you know, life happens, bottom
line.
And there was a point in my lifewhere I could do nothing and
only had the time to just beable to shoot, and I was very
fortunate and could do just thatand shot at a really decent
level and everything, thenfamily things happen, and that's
(11:41):
what you do.
You're there.
My parents were always there forme, I was gonna be there for
them.
So now I'm getting back into theshooting part, which is the
exciting.
So it's getting back out there.
It's the, you know, it's it'sletting everybody know it's
okay, we all have things in lifewe have to deal with.
Now I'm back when people arelike, I'm so thrilled to see you
back out on the range.
(12:01):
That's so exciting.
But there there are those days,and even the best of the best
shooters will tell you they gothrough slumps at times.
Yeah.
They even the best of the best,they miss targets.
Everybody misses.
Like Babe Ruth, he he had morestrikeouts than he ever had home
runs.
Yeah.
But it's just one of, but yet hewas one of the greatest, you
know, obviously.
(12:22):
It's that dedication, thatpractice, it's mentally not
getting upset at yourself going.
I gotta work through this.
I have to.
I'd have many times I'd sitthere and I would I would go to
a range and it'd be like, ormeet with my coach, and it was
like, oh gosh, you know, I justI don't know what's happened.
I just I can't shoot anymore.
I just cannot shoot anymore.
And he's like, so let me getthis straight.
You know, last weekend you didreally great in this tournament.
(12:44):
You either won this or youplaced here, you did this or
that or whatever, and now all ofa sudden you can't shoot.
Like, come on.
And it's like look at the bird.
You know, look at the bird.
That's what it really came downto.
It's getting that focus back,but it's learning all those
fundamentals and working at it.
You just can't get upset atyourself.
We all want that instantgratification and like that, oh,
(13:04):
I've got to be like perfect outof the box.
Well, there is no such suchthing there.
You just you really have to workat it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
I think that what like that's I I I I'm I'm so
touched, like I don't even knowwhat to say because that's such
a great message in life aboutjust taking what it is that you
you you've got to do and and putit behind you and get through it
and then find your passion andkeep on working.
SPEAKER_02 (13:26):
Working at it and just moving forward.
It's um, you know, it's so funnybecause one of the quotes I gave
in my um speech at with thegolden bullseye, um, I had a
couple little quotes mixed inthere from obviously some of the
great one of my favorite oneswas from Calamity Jane.
Yeah, you know, I went to hergravesite, random, random thing,
timid.
Awesome, but it's like if a girlwants to be a legend, yeah, she
(13:49):
should just go ahead and be one.
I mean, that's you know, I mean,that's just what it is.
And it's like you just you getout there, we all, you know,
obviously being in thisindustry, we're outnumbered.
We walk around with the daggerson our back at times because
people are like, and it's like,I've worked really hard to get
to where I'm at.
Yeah.
And I'm not one of these peoplethat says, look at me, look at
me, anything like that.
(14:10):
And I continue to work hard, butit's for everybody out there
that there's this great sport,you know, for the Second
Amendment, for everything thatwe have, and that we've got, you
know, the one thing with theclay target sports, which is
which is what I do, it'sliterally a sport you'll have
for life.
I don't know of anything elsewhere, you know, I've got a
youth on one side and a seniorcitizen on the other side, and
(14:32):
we're all there.
We're all, you know, we have ourgreat days together, our days
where it's like, come on, youcan do this, our days cheering
each other on, like, oh man, youknow, you're you're gonna do
really good in this event andeverything.
And that's what's that's what'sreally so cool.
But another thing when youbrought back to like with the um
veteran you had that was blind,I was also too taught very early
on by a gentleman.
(14:54):
He sat there and he said, Ann, Iwant you to experience what it's
like for someone that'sdisabled.
And we were out shootingtogether, and I was like, Oh,
okay, I'm game.
And he sat there and he pulled achair up and he said, I want you
to sit in the chair, and I wantyou to see what it's like to
shoot a shotgun from a sittingposition.
And I was like, I'll do it.
(15:16):
So, and I did, and I really gotthat feel, and then lo and
behold, I had an event, andthere was a young girl who came
up and she was in a wheelchair,and she sat there, she's like,
No, no, I'll just stay overhere.
I'm just along with my friendsjust to to watch, and it's like,
no, you're gonna get up here andyou're gonna do this, and I'm
gonna be right here with you.
And I was able to get the gunin, you know, kind of wrap
(15:37):
myself around the back of her inthe chair and help guide her,
and it was just such aphenomenal experience, probably
more so for me, because I hadexperienced that to be able to
to know what to do, to make adifference.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Absolutely, and uh that kind of brings up the the
whole um Anne Morrow with acoach's heart, you know, like
you you have put yourself indifferent positions where you
could help people from you knowwhether they're sitting,
standing, um, you know, havedisabilities, you've actually
put yourself in that position sothat you can um still coach
(16:14):
them.
And um and and you also ledUniversity of Maryland, right?
And their program for a while.
They're not pride and choice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Still to this day, I started that program.
Adam McGrath, obviously ofMaryland.
Um, very little, you know,they're they're near and dear to
my heart.
And that all came about thatthere were a group of just
students that were out at therange one day, and very, very
just informal.
There was no official team orclub or anything of any type.
And they said they knew of meand knew of my shooting, and
(16:43):
they said, Would you help?
And I sat there, I said,Absolutely.
And I had someone come up andthey said, Ann, you don't want
anything to do with them,they're not very good, and you
don't want that associated withyou.
And I was like, all the morereason.
I within the first year led themto their first regional
championship.
And last year during theCollegiate Nationals in Division
I they took the classicall-around um runner-up, which
(17:06):
was fantastic.
So um, you know, it's justreally they're they're the
future of our sport, right?
And whatever I can do to help,you know, obviously with that,
I'm I'm right there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
So and that's what makes you women of the year
every year in my heart.
But this year you um accepted anaward.
I was uh so honored andprivileged to be there and watch
you accept that award.
And uh can you tell us a littlebit about how how that felt?
That was it was so funny.
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
So when I received the call that I was receiving
this award, I was literallyblown away by it because it
truly is one of the mostprestigious awards in the whole
industry.
And you know, it's so funnybecause as they said, they said,
Ann, you you actually deservethis award every year for
everything you've done.
And they have like fourcriteria, and you have to just
meet one of the criteria.
Well, I checked the whole fourboxes, which is really cool.
(18:01):
Because like I said, I've behindthe scenes I've done amazing
work that I just don't evenpromote and put out there, but
it's just so that there's moreout there for all of us, which I
think is is so key to to have ineverything.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
So what do you say to a young young woman, young
girl who wants to get involvedin the sport?
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
Let's let's come right out here onto the range
and you just get him out thereand you get him started.
And I've had more um women, I dosome amazing events every year
at the NSCA, the NationalSporting Clays Association at
the Nationals every year in SanAntonio.
And I started with just a coupleladies that would come out
because they admired, they'relike, I'm so thrilled watching
(18:42):
you up there shooting, and theywould just sit on the back of
the golf cart while either theirhusbands or their children would
shoot.
It's like, no, no, no, no, getout of here.
Come on, if I can't.
You can't have you sitting thereand do this.
And I thought nothing of youknow, strapping a shotgun across
my back and traveling in thecountry and going to shoot.
And it was really great.
And then it was like, well gosh,if I can do this, I want to get
(19:02):
them involved.
I want them to know there's norule book, there's no guidebook
to go by, know anything when itcame to to doing any of this.
And then asked if I could run alittle program, they said, Ann
Ladies aren't gonna sign up.
Well, the first year, you know,sold out, I did one class, sold
it out.
Yeah, and now I'm to a point nowwhere I have, you know, close to
(19:23):
a hundred women every year inthe stadium now of all places.
Everybody that's everybody'sgoal to shoot the stadium, and I
always tell the ladies, you knowwhat, you're starting in the
stadium.
So it's really kind of cool andthey love that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
So is this an event that women can sign up for?
How do they find it?
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
So um it's on scorechaser.com and it's under
the NSCA Nationals in SanAntonio every October.
And um I have a ladies open,it's a tournament, it's just a
50 bird tournament that I havestarted a couple years ago
because the ladies, if they'reespecially if they're just
starting, for them to shoot themain event, there again, there's
targets, there's presentationsway out of their wheelhouse that
(20:01):
we don't want people getting sodiscouraged.
It's things you have to learn.
It's things that you can't stepup and go.
Yeah, you need the experience tothen see it again.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And um, so I started thisabsolutely fantastic crew that
works there on the grounds,everybody, and we put together
such a phenomenal tournament,amazing sponsors.
(20:21):
Um, this year what's soexciting.
Um, I'm with Cole Gun and uhFine Guns and Gunsmithing, and
they are we're actually doing umuh ladies uh Cole Pro that we're
gonna be designing out and willbe giving away, and not for the
top score, it's for just forparticipation.
Uh-huh.
Because we have ladies of alllevels of shooting that come to
(20:42):
this, and that's what it's meantto be.
That you get to just team up.
It's just all women's squads,it's just really, really
fantastic, and everybody's thereto cheer each other on, and you
know, you got this, or givinglittle pointers behind the
scenes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
That's that makes a difference to me because I I
mean I've been on both sides ofit.
I've I've been a femaleinstructor, but I I appreciate a
female instructor because youjust you need somebody who
explains it to you for yourskill level, for your body type,
for your experience, and who canbreak it down for a woman
because you are gonna shoot itdifferently than a man, which is
(21:17):
hard.
And um, and it just makes such adifference to be in a supportive
environment and have just abunch of women hearing you on,
and then a female instructor whoknows your stuff, and like I'm
sitting here going, what am Idoing in October?
You know, because this thissounds amazing.
Like because it really does makea difference when you have a
(21:37):
female instructor as a female.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
You know, it's so interesting, it's so funny
because all my instructors andcoaches have all only ever been
male.
And I wouldn't, which is sofunny because people sit there
and go, like, well, female canonly have a female, yeah, which
is and a lot of late they'remore comfortable around yes
women, which is totally fine.
I grew up with all all brothersand grew up in a neighborhood
with all guys.
(22:00):
I mean it's just what it is, allboys, that's what it is.
So for me to be with them, Imean I hang with them, it's all
good, it's totally fine.
And I don't mind they can, Imean, it it it can be it can
really be, you know, at timesthey're like, oh, I've had some
really phenomenal, phenomenalcoaching and experience, and
some of the best of the best inthe world that I've been able
(22:20):
to, you know, um, you know, takelessons with um or work with and
do things, and they've reallyjust all opened their their
wings and have been, becausethey know that I want to give
back.
Yeah.
And that's what it's all about.
It's about all of us growing thesport.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
So Anne, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, um,
how how would they do that?
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
So we have to figure that out, because as we were
talking a little bit earlier, Ido remain kind of this little
mystery person that I'm not onFacebook, I'm not on because as
we said, someone said, I can'tbelieve you're not on Facebook,
Ann, and someone said shedoesn't have to be, she's living
the life that we all claim andmake it look like we're living
on our Facebook pages andeverything.
So um we'll have to we'll haveto figure that out.
(23:00):
All right, they can't find youin Texas.
They can find me in Texas duringnationals, absolutely.
All right, yes, and definitelywith cold guns, you know.
I mean, I'm I'm with them, sothey can reach out there and
University of Maryland, all ofthat.
So yes, great, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Well, thank you very much for being on our podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:19):
Thank you so much, both of you, for having me.
We're at Shotshow, does it getany better?
I know, I know, it's fun.
It's a ton of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
It's such a great week.
And we get to see everybody thatwe hardly see, and you know,
it's just like our family,right?
Absolutely.
Yes, you're like the cool aunt.
You are like cool sister.
Yeah, there you go.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Have a great show.
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
I'm Erica Chin and I'm here withMaggie Reese.
We are your hosts and we are at2026 Shot Show in the Otis
Technology Booth, this beautifuluh podcast booth that they
allowed us to be here.
And um we have one of the nicestladies out there.
(00:33):
I mean, I I kinda I have to saythat I I fangirl a little bit.
Um she's wonderful, she's a hugename in the industry.
She's done so much.
Um she's actually NRA woman ofthe year.
Um Anne Morrow.
Welcome, Anne.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me, Erica and Maggie.
(00:54):
It's a true pleasure to be here.
It's an honor.
It's I mean, it's an honor foruh me to be sitting across this
table from you.
Um like I said, I told Maggie, Isaid, oh my gosh, I I hope I
don't fangirl too much.
But there's always, I don'tknow, it's really cool to be
able to podcast with people.
And it just seems like everyyear I have at least one or two
(01:14):
people that I just like totallyfangirl about.
And you're it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Oh well that's that's it's and that's really
you know, I get I truly get, aswe were talking about earlier,
kind of, you know, a littlechuckle over it because I I
truly am very humble in what Iwhat I do and um and what I give
back because it's all aboutgrowing women in the sport.
Um you've done a great job ofit.
I've worked very hard at it andum you know and I absolutely
(01:39):
love what I do.
I love all the you know whatit's taken to get what's out
there today for women and it'samazing to see the growth of
women, um, especially in the theshotgunning sports, is my kind
of forte there.
So that's that's it.
But it's just you know, if westart somewhere and just all
throughout the whole industry,they start to see we're we're
becoming a force to be reckonedwith, which is good.
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
See, I have the same experience.
Like when I started shooting,you know, and I won't say how
long ago that was, but it was awhile ago.
And when I would go to therange, I was the only woman
there.
Like it was just me, and menwould come up to me and say, Are
you like, are you looking foryour dad?
Are you looking for yourhusband?
Like, I'm not like I was justthe only kid out there.
(02:22):
So now we're getting to theplace where it's like, okay,
there's quite a few women andpeople are really embracing all
the different sports and and notbeing intimidated out of it.
Like they're finding their ownplace and their own growth, and
that's so exciting just to seechange over the years.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (02:39):
And I've I've had that where you know you're
you're at the range and theycome up and they're like, oh,
oh, you've got a gun in yourhand, let me help you.
Yeah.
And then they try to truly doout with it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:48):
Because it is a very helpful sport, but it's also a
little bit like, hey buddy, Igot this.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
And I've had those where they come up and it's
like, oh, let me load that, letme show you.
I'm gonna stand right here withyou.
And I will, I actually I'm kindof bad in a way because I'll
play along with it.
And I'll actually fucking helptoo many people know me because
they're like, I don't know ifshe's but you know, back in the
day I could kind of just playthem a little bit, which is
probably a bad thing to do, butI had fun doing it.
(03:15):
And you know, they would sitthere and it's like, and this is
what you do, and here's what youdo, and then I would just load
and roll right into the mouth,you know, crush targets, and I
was like, Well, thank you.
You're a really good teacher.
I appreciate that.
And uh, you know, then they'relike, Oh, I guess you know
something, and it's like a thingor two.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So uh I had a funny moment, like I was shooting a
pistol match just like a coupleweeks ago, and I just I had a
smoke and run.
I'm not gonna lie.
I like I had a smoke and run,and it was really, really good.
And some guys were watchingbehind me and they and they say
to my squad mates, they're like,hey, you know, that that was
really good for a girl.
And my squad mates turned aroundand they're like, no, that was
just really good.
(03:52):
Period.
Like, and like there was noqualifier behind it.
Like, she smoked that run.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
You know.
And I've been um T T is abeautiful indoor range in Utah.
Um really cool sporting.
I mean, it's sporting claysindoors.
I mean, that's like unheard of.
There's very few places aroundthe world that that do that.
And I'm talking actual clays,not not some video game that
you're shooting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
And um, I'm in my my little bay there that I'm in,
and it's so funny.
We go down, and I'm justcrushing these targets, and all
of a sudden you see the guys,they step back, they look, and
they're like, that's a girlthere.
And they just got a big kick outof it, and I got a kick, you
know, it's a lot of it's a lotof fun, but there's nothing we
can't do if we put our minds toit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
I've always been taught that, so yeah.
I think that you're being alittle like uh very humble when
you say that you've helped inthe women's sport.
Um, because if there's a ladyshotgun out there, you've
probably helped design it.
SPEAKER_02 (04:51):
I've had a lot of help in a lot of the guns that
are out there, and or they havebeen um some of the other
companies that have picked upand have moved on, they've taken
parts and pieces, they'vedeveloped greater, they've
fine-tuned things, which iswonderful to see.
Um is there any such thing as aperfect shotgun for anybody?
No.
I mean it's all a matter of youknow, getting something fit
(05:12):
properly to you, and then um butthere's choices now, which is so
nice, because for the longesttime it was that standard, you
know, gun out of a box that wasmeant for the, you know, the six
foot tall, five ten, eleven,whatever man there.
Right.
And none of that ever fit me,and that's where this all really
kind of came about.
And standing barely five foottwo, I would I absolutely loved
(05:35):
when I first started shooting.
And um, I would have to take thebutt pad off a rental gun, and I
shot bare wood the first ninemonths I was learning to shoot.
But I loved it that much, andlike I said, I used to break
open those instant ice packs, Iput them down my arms because my
arms hurt so bad.
I was I mean, I was black andblue.
I was everything because nothingfit.
(05:55):
The grip never fit my hand.
Are we gonna design a gun whenI'm designing to fit me at my
stature?
No, but we find or designsomething that's more in the
middle for that average heightwoman that then we can cut down
slightly if need be, but alsoto, you know, lengthen the
length of pull if need be.
But then no matter what thebrand is, it's really because
(06:16):
there's so many great brandsobviously out there.
It's finding what works in yourbudget, finding things to get to
fit you the best, getting somegood instruction, and then just
getting out there and shootingand having a good time, then
learning.
It's a journey.
Nothing happens overnight withany of this.
You can't get upset withyourself.
We all have good days and baddays when we shoot.
SPEAKER_00 (06:35):
I can't tell you how important that is because I'm
actually I just started shootingmore sporting clays and trap and
stuff like that.
And and I'm not good at all.
Like, you know, I'm not good atall.
But right now I'm shooting myhusband's shotgun.
And I'm like, you know, doingall this extra work because it
is not designed for me.
And it makes such a difference.
(06:56):
Like, I'm just I'm I'm waitingfor the dollars to roll in.
So I but once I get my ownshotgun, I know that I'm just it
it's gonna improve my scoreimmediately because it will be
designed for me.
SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
And when and I'm always when people say, Oh,
well, I'm not, I'm not good.
I'm not good.
It's not that you're not good,you just haven't learned certain
things yet.
Yeah.
And you have to learn, you haveto get that education, that
knowledge base, and thenpractice with it.
So, but fighting a gun that'seither way too long or too short
or something with you, that youknow, if you spend all this time
and you see, especially women,they spend a lot of time kind of
(07:29):
you know trying to get theirhead in the gun, trying to get,
you know, we're designedobviously differently through
the chest, everything.
Um, and and working with allthat, by the time we finally get
comfortable, well, that gunstarts to get happy.
And you know, that potentiallyeight-pound gun that you're
holding there, and then all of asudden by the time you call
pole, you're like, oh, you justthat breath comes out, you relax
your shoulders, everything goesdown, and it's like, gosh, all
(07:51):
that work, and I missed thatgun.
Now I gotta get back through,miss that target, and I gotta
get back in and do it again.
It wears you out.
SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Well, and that's I'm behind right now because I'm I'm
so tired, you know, lifting itup and chasing it like that I
can't catch up right now.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
And then you have to learn the fundamentals of that
target.
And every target has an angle, aspeed, and a distance to it, and
you've got to learn all thelittle nuances of everything.
And then with each sport, eachdiscipline, whether it's trap
has their own, ski has theirown, then when you get into the
international disciplines, youget into sporting clays and feet
and five stand.
I mean, there's just so manygreat games out there for us to
(08:27):
play in the sport.
And I'm all about the sport.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
So one thing that um we had talked about earlier,
like several months ago, was umhow you practiced and actually
shot without like you could youcould shoot without seeing the
target.
SPEAKER_02 (08:46):
Oh, well there's there's a well you shoot by f
there's like a feel.
Are you talking about when wewere talking about how you feel?
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Yeah, instead of because uh well we were talking
about how um one of the veteransthat wanted to come out and
shoot with us uh couldn't she'sblind.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:01):
And you were telling me how you basically were
practicing like that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:05):
Yes, actually I had someone teach me, I'm actually
known for my distance shootingand for taking dropping targets.
And I would have very early onwhen I was learning, I had some
keep I mean, I would go to therange before it would even open,
and they would put me out thereas the sun was coming up, and
they would sit there and youknow, I would they would have me
(09:26):
watch the target in flight andwhat it would do, then they'd
put a little blindfold down andI'd listen for the machine to go
off.
I'd have my gun set just rightand then do because they was I'm
serious.
What is happening now?
Are you kidding me?
I'm not kidding me.
And then you would look becausethe targets were so at at a
(09:47):
distance, but you wereprogramming now.
Someone that can't see, youknow, because they're not
getting that visual, I wouldhave that visual prior, then I'd
shut down the vision.
Um it's just like when you'relearning to fly an airplane,
when you start to do yourinstrument ratings, do all this,
you know, you're you you have ahood down, so you don't get to
see anything around you to see,so you're flying in total, you
(10:07):
know, just you're yourinstruments.
This is what I'm not seeingwhat's outside to know what's
going on.
Um, and um so there was that,and you would then they were so
far, and you'd pull the trigger,and then you know, you'd then
lift up and watch, and thenpoof, you'd see that target
break, and it's like, wow.
And it wasn't like, oh, thispure luck, you could do it just
one time, and that was itconsistently.
(10:30):
And that's where I reallylearned a lot of the the
distance and that andeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
So that's so cool, but you know what?
What I really took away fromthat is that you were the first
person on the range.
And and the dedication, like youknow, like you have to have that
love and that passion and thatdrive to get out there and be
the first person on the rangeand to fight through the
equipment and the bruising andall of this, and just say, I
(10:57):
love it so much that I want toexcel.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Absolutely.
And it was a ch it still is achallenge, you know, to to this
day.
But we all have great days andbad days and all of that.
So how do you get yourself outof a bad day?
It's you know, this is what'sinteresting.
So um a couple years ago, goingback, I guess maybe it was like
three years ago, my dad he hebecame became like he had to
(11:21):
finally go into a place, and Iwas taking care of him and lost
my mom earlier.
We all deal with things in life,you know, life happens, bottom
line.
And there was a point in my lifewhere I could do nothing and
only had the time to just beable to shoot, and I was very
fortunate and could do just thatand shot at a really decent
level and everything, thenfamily things happen, and that's
(11:41):
what you do.
You're there.
My parents were always there forme, I was gonna be there for
them.
So now I'm getting back into theshooting part, which is the
exciting.
So it's getting back out there.
It's the, you know, it's it'sletting everybody know it's
okay, we all have things in lifewe have to deal with.
Now I'm back when people arelike, I'm so thrilled to see you
back out on the range.
(12:01):
That's so exciting.
But there there are those days,and even the best of the best
shooters will tell you they gothrough slumps at times.
Yeah.
They even the best of the best,they miss targets.
Everybody misses.
Like Babe Ruth, he he had morestrikeouts than he ever had home
runs.
Yeah.
But it's just one of, but yet hewas one of the greatest, you
know, obviously.
(12:22):
It's that dedication, thatpractice, it's mentally not
getting upset at yourself going.
I gotta work through this.
I have to.
I'd have many times I'd sitthere and I would I would go to
a range and it'd be like, ormeet with my coach, and it was
like, oh gosh, you know, I justI don't know what's happened.
I just I can't shoot anymore.
I just cannot shoot anymore.
And he's like, so let me getthis straight.
You know, last weekend you didreally great in this tournament.
(12:44):
You either won this or youplaced here, you did this or
that or whatever, and now all ofa sudden you can't shoot.
Like, come on.
And it's like look at the bird.
You know, look at the bird.
That's what it really came downto.
It's getting that focus back,but it's learning all those
fundamentals and working at it.
You just can't get upset atyourself.
We all want that instantgratification and like that, oh,
(13:04):
I've got to be like perfect outof the box.
Well, there is no such suchthing there.
You just you really have to workat it.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
I think that what like that's I I I I'm I'm so
touched, like I don't even knowwhat to say because that's such
a great message in life aboutjust taking what it is that you
you you've got to do and and putit behind you and get through it
and then find your passion andkeep on working.
SPEAKER_02 (13:26):
Working at it and just moving forward.
It's um, you know, it's so funnybecause one of the quotes I gave
in my um speech at with thegolden bullseye, um, I had a
couple little quotes mixed inthere from obviously some of the
great one of my favorite oneswas from Calamity Jane.
Yeah, you know, I went to hergravesite, random, random thing,
timid.
Awesome, but it's like if a girlwants to be a legend, yeah, she
(13:49):
should just go ahead and be one.
I mean, that's you know, I mean,that's just what it is.
And it's like you just you getout there, we all, you know,
obviously being in thisindustry, we're outnumbered.
We walk around with the daggerson our back at times because
people are like, and it's like,I've worked really hard to get
to where I'm at.
Yeah.
And I'm not one of these peoplethat says, look at me, look at
me, anything like that.
(14:10):
And I continue to work hard, butit's for everybody out there
that there's this great sport,you know, for the Second
Amendment, for everything thatwe have, and that we've got, you
know, the one thing with theclay target sports, which is
which is what I do, it'sliterally a sport you'll have
for life.
I don't know of anything elsewhere, you know, I've got a
youth on one side and a seniorcitizen on the other side, and
(14:32):
we're all there.
We're all, you know, we have ourgreat days together, our days
where it's like, come on, youcan do this, our days cheering
each other on, like, oh man, youknow, you're you're gonna do
really good in this event andeverything.
And that's what's that's what'sreally so cool.
But another thing when youbrought back to like with the um
veteran you had that was blind,I was also too taught very early
on by a gentleman.
(14:54):
He sat there and he said, Ann, Iwant you to experience what it's
like for someone that'sdisabled.
And we were out shootingtogether, and I was like, Oh,
okay, I'm game.
And he sat there and he pulled achair up and he said, I want you
to sit in the chair, and I wantyou to see what it's like to
shoot a shotgun from a sittingposition.
And I was like, I'll do it.
(15:16):
So, and I did, and I really gotthat feel, and then lo and
behold, I had an event, andthere was a young girl who came
up and she was in a wheelchair,and she sat there, she's like,
No, no, I'll just stay overhere.
I'm just along with my friendsjust to to watch, and it's like,
no, you're gonna get up here andyou're gonna do this, and I'm
gonna be right here with you.
And I was able to get the gunin, you know, kind of wrap
(15:37):
myself around the back of her inthe chair and help guide her,
and it was just such aphenomenal experience, probably
more so for me, because I hadexperienced that to be able to
to know what to do, to make adifference.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
Absolutely, and uh that kind of brings up the the
whole um Anne Morrow with acoach's heart, you know, like
you you have put yourself indifferent positions where you
could help people from you knowwhether they're sitting,
standing, um, you know, havedisabilities, you've actually
put yourself in that position sothat you can um still coach
(16:14):
them.
And um and and you also ledUniversity of Maryland, right?
And their program for a while.
They're not pride and choice.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Still to this day, I started that program.
Adam McGrath, obviously ofMaryland.
Um, very little, you know,they're they're near and dear to
my heart.
And that all came about thatthere were a group of just
students that were out at therange one day, and very, very
just informal.
There was no official team orclub or anything of any type.
And they said they knew of meand knew of my shooting, and
(16:43):
they said, Would you help?
And I sat there, I said,Absolutely.
And I had someone come up andthey said, Ann, you don't want
anything to do with them,they're not very good, and you
don't want that associated withyou.
And I was like, all the morereason.
I within the first year led themto their first regional
championship.
And last year during theCollegiate Nationals in Division
I they took the classicall-around um runner-up, which
(17:06):
was fantastic.
So um, you know, it's justreally they're they're the
future of our sport, right?
And whatever I can do to help,you know, obviously with that,
I'm I'm right there.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
So and that's what makes you women of the year
every year in my heart.
But this year you um accepted anaward.
I was uh so honored andprivileged to be there and watch
you accept that award.
And uh can you tell us a littlebit about how how that felt?
That was it was so funny.
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
So when I received the call that I was receiving
this award, I was literallyblown away by it because it
truly is one of the mostprestigious awards in the whole
industry.
And you know, it's so funnybecause as they said, they said,
Ann, you you actually deservethis award every year for
everything you've done.
And they have like fourcriteria, and you have to just
meet one of the criteria.
Well, I checked the whole fourboxes, which is really cool.
(18:01):
Because like I said, I've behindthe scenes I've done amazing
work that I just don't evenpromote and put out there, but
it's just so that there's moreout there for all of us, which I
think is is so key to to have ineverything.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
So what do you say to a young young woman, young
girl who wants to get involvedin the sport?
SPEAKER_02 (18:21):
Let's let's come right out here onto the range
and you just get him out thereand you get him started.
And I've had more um women, I dosome amazing events every year
at the NSCA, the NationalSporting Clays Association at
the Nationals every year in SanAntonio.
And I started with just a coupleladies that would come out
because they admired, they'relike, I'm so thrilled watching
(18:42):
you up there shooting, and theywould just sit on the back of
the golf cart while either theirhusbands or their children would
shoot.
It's like, no, no, no, no, getout of here.
Come on, if I can't.
You can't have you sitting thereand do this.
And I thought nothing of youknow, strapping a shotgun across
my back and traveling in thecountry and going to shoot.
And it was really great.
And then it was like, well gosh,if I can do this, I want to get
(19:02):
them involved.
I want them to know there's norule book, there's no guidebook
to go by, know anything when itcame to to doing any of this.
And then asked if I could run alittle program, they said, Ann
Ladies aren't gonna sign up.
Well, the first year, you know,sold out, I did one class, sold
it out.
Yeah, and now I'm to a point nowwhere I have, you know, close to
(19:23):
a hundred women every year inthe stadium now of all places.
Everybody that's everybody'sgoal to shoot the stadium, and I
always tell the ladies, you knowwhat, you're starting in the
stadium.
So it's really kind of cool andthey love that.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
So is this an event that women can sign up for?
How do they find it?
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
So um it's on scorechaser.com and it's under
the NSCA Nationals in SanAntonio every October.
And um I have a ladies open,it's a tournament, it's just a
50 bird tournament that I havestarted a couple years ago
because the ladies, if they'reespecially if they're just
starting, for them to shoot themain event, there again, there's
targets, there's presentationsway out of their wheelhouse that
(20:01):
we don't want people getting sodiscouraged.
It's things you have to learn.
It's things that you can't stepup and go.
Yeah, you need the experience tothen see it again.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And um, so I started thisabsolutely fantastic crew that
works there on the grounds,everybody, and we put together
such a phenomenal tournament,amazing sponsors.
(20:21):
Um, this year what's soexciting.
Um, I'm with Cole Gun and uhFine Guns and Gunsmithing, and
they are we're actually doing umuh ladies uh Cole Pro that we're
gonna be designing out and willbe giving away, and not for the
top score, it's for just forparticipation.
Uh-huh.
Because we have ladies of alllevels of shooting that come to
(20:42):
this, and that's what it's meantto be.
That you get to just team up.
It's just all women's squads,it's just really, really
fantastic, and everybody's thereto cheer each other on, and you
know, you got this, or givinglittle pointers behind the
scenes.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
That's that makes a difference to me because I I
mean I've been on both sides ofit.
I've I've been a femaleinstructor, but I I appreciate a
female instructor because youjust you need somebody who
explains it to you for yourskill level, for your body type,
for your experience, and who canbreak it down for a woman
because you are gonna shoot itdifferently than a man, which is
(21:17):
hard.
And um, and it just makes such adifference to be in a supportive
environment and have just abunch of women hearing you on,
and then a female instructor whoknows your stuff, and like I'm
sitting here going, what am Idoing in October?
You know, because this thissounds amazing.
Like because it really does makea difference when you have a
(21:37):
female instructor as a female.
SPEAKER_02 (21:39):
You know, it's so interesting, it's so funny
because all my instructors andcoaches have all only ever been
male.
And I wouldn't, which is sofunny because people sit there
and go, like, well, female canonly have a female, yeah, which
is and a lot of late they'remore comfortable around yes
women, which is totally fine.
I grew up with all all brothersand grew up in a neighborhood
with all guys.
(22:00):
I mean it's just what it is, allboys, that's what it is.
So for me to be with them, Imean I hang with them, it's all
good, it's totally fine.
And I don't mind they can, Imean, it it it can be it can
really be, you know, at timesthey're like, oh, I've had some
really phenomenal, phenomenalcoaching and experience, and
some of the best of the best inthe world that I've been able
(22:20):
to, you know, um, you know, takelessons with um or work with and
do things, and they've reallyjust all opened their their
wings and have been, becausethey know that I want to give
back.
Yeah.
And that's what it's all about.
It's about all of us growing thesport.
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
So Anne, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, um,
how how would they do that?
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
So we have to figure that out, because as we were
talking a little bit earlier, Ido remain kind of this little
mystery person that I'm not onFacebook, I'm not on because as
we said, someone said, I can'tbelieve you're not on Facebook,
Ann, and someone said shedoesn't have to be, she's living
the life that we all claim andmake it look like we're living
on our Facebook pages andeverything.
So um we'll have to we'll haveto figure that out.
(23:00):
All right, they can't find youin Texas.
They can find me in Texas duringnationals, absolutely.
All right, yes, and definitelywith cold guns, you know.
I mean, I'm I'm with them, sothey can reach out there and
University of Maryland, all ofthat.
So yes, great, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Well, thank you very much for being on our podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (23:19):
Thank you so much, both of you, for having me.
We're at Shotshow, does it getany better?
I know, I know, it's fun.
It's a ton of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
It's such a great week.
And we get to see everybody thatwe hardly see, and you know,
it's just like our family,right?
Absolutely.
Yes, you're like the cool aunt.
You are like cool sister.
Yeah, there you go.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Have a great show.
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