July 28, 2024 • 39 mins
MARSOC is an abbreviation for Marine Forces Special Operations Command. While the Marines have fielded special operations forces before, (the “Raiders” conducted amphibious light infantry missions in World War II) there has always been some resistance within the Corps against establishing an elite unit within what many already consider an elite force.
The “Raiders” were disbanded in 1944. However, after the 9/11 attacks, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld directed the Marine Corps to establish a "proof of concept" unit that would report to US Special Operations Command. John A. Dailey was one of four team leaders selected to form the 1st Reconnaissance Company – Det. 1 for short. His Commander only gave him one prerequisite for the 86 men who would form the unit; “They must be tough rugged bastards with strong backs and hard feet”. “Tough Rugged Bastards” would become the title for John’s memoir of life in a Marine Special Operations Unit.
Dailey and his fellow Marines started from scratch, training for unknown missions in unknown locations. When they deployed to Iraq they adopted the name “Task Force Raider” in tribute to their WWII lineage. John shares some of the missions they conducted in Iraq. He emphasizes that their role providing personal security for high profile Iraqi elected officials was probably their most important mission.
Det. 1 quickly won over the naysayers who doubted the Marine’s ability to operate successfully in the fluid and unconventional special operations environment. John says the toughest moment was when Det. 1 was disbanded but recognizes the necessity of that in order for the operations to be “built to scale” and create MARSOC.
John knew he wanted to become a Marine at seven years old when he saw one in his dress blues at a Fourth of July parade. His story of how he came to be a Marine sniper due to a clerical error is quite humorous.
TAKEAWAY: “Leaders should give guidance that is as specific as necessary but as broad as possible. This stirs creativity and engenders ownership of the task.”
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
We all owe them, but very few of
us know them.
They are the men and women of our
military and first responder communities,
and these are their stories.
American Warrior radio
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Welcome to American Warrior Radio ladies and Gentlemen.
(00:26):
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(00:47):
If you don't anything think about military history,
you might recognize Edison raiders or Carlson raiders.
They were special operation forces established by the
Marine Corps during World war 2 to conduct
Amphibious light infantry warfare.
The raiders were distorted at 19 44.
There is interestingly enough some significant resistance within
the Marine corps towards as a concept of
having an elite unit within what many already
(01:08):
considered an elite unit. Fast forward 59 years
and the call came once again for the
Marines to establish a special force will be
permanently attached to Us special operations command. 86
man were selected to form the first force
rig reconnaissance company, debt 1 for short.
When they deployed Iraq the adopted the named
task unit rare tribute to their World war
2 lineage. Debt 1 was a proof of
(01:30):
concept unit that would lead to what is
now known as Mars.
Today on American Warrior radio, we're joined by
a man who bore part the responsibility for
standing up debt 1 He joined the marines
at the age of 17 and served with
them for over 20 years. His experience with
marine special forces and their role in the
Middle East is detailed at his new book,
tough, Rugged Bastards. Welcome to American World Radio,
(01:51):
John A Daily.
And thanks for having me on, and I
gotta get out of the way that Us
special Operations Command has
requested that I let everybody know that my
opinions are my own and do not reflect
theirs or anyone else's.
So okay. John, you it's great to have
you on American warrior radio. I did complete
your book. Your start with the marines
(02:12):
began when you were about 7 years old
at a fourth of July parade,
tell us that story.
Certainly. Yeah. It was
kinda special because of there's was the fourth
of July in 70 76. Right? So it
was a bi
of the nation that it was it was
very amped up. Right? It was
Everybody's parades parades were bigger that year, and
I was 7. Like, as you said.
(02:35):
So we had gone to a local. It
are the the nearest town, I guess, you
know, where my day played on a softball
team and we're
walking around
eating hot dogs, and I saw like on
the marine for the first time.
And he was in his... And and there's
a difference and I talk about this in
the book between, you know, what may have
actually happened and what in my mind happened,
(02:56):
You know? So you know, I can't recall
it any differently when I talked to my
dad. He doesn't remember the event happening at
all. But
you know, I I saw this marine. And
in my in my minds, I, he was
just
g, you know, veteran who had, you know,
big stack of ribbons, and, it was going
home for Vietnam, and that's
probably unlikely.
(03:16):
Alright. Because, you know, there were a lot
of a lot of folks corn, you know,
we're in the uniform at that time, you
know, especially but bathrooms with
you know, coming over Vietnam. So, it may
not be be that way. He may have
been a 18 year old kid that it
just got out of camp. But either way,
you know, that's in my mind, he will
always be, you know, that way, You know,
I looked at him, kinda saw him ask
(03:37):
my dad who had served in the navy.
There in Vietnam, at, you know, what is
that guy? And he said, that's a marine.
And the other thing that my dad will
never ever admit was said to was, like,
a little bit of of
jealousy and his in his voice that I
remember when he said that. So I I
went back and read, you know, just started
checking out books from the library because that's
(03:58):
you know, how we learn things back in
those days about the Marine corps and and
really kinda solidified my
position then and there that that was that
was what I wanted to do. John, I
finally I really, you kinda gave me as
my mom say a hurdle and reading your
book. Your your journey to force Recon
may have actually been due to a clerical
error.
(04:18):
Yeah. That... So so in the military or
especially in the rank for your Mo your
military occupational specially is designated by a 4
digit code. If it's o 3, it's infantry.
And then within the infantry, Mo, there there
are a lot of
There's an infantry, which is no 03:11. There's
mortar, there's machine gutter, you know, and and
I tank rifle, you know, down the line.
(04:40):
When I checked in, I was... To my
first unit after Boot camp happen after infantry
school. I was told to get off the
bus go report in which I did, and
there had been an error of assigning me
to the weapons company
instead of a, an infantry platoon. So the
rather than fix the error of the decision
was was made that the the easiest thing
(05:01):
to do would be to assign me to
the cyber platoon, which was not the easiest
for me because, you, everybody else who made
their way into the sniper platoon, generally spent
a couple of years in the infantry, the
had to try out,
and it was a it was a pretty
rigorous thing to get into a sniper tune.
So I'd kinda skipped the line in front
(05:21):
of,
quite a few people. So the the marines
in the platoon weren't weren't big fans of
me. Everybody else, you know, who had any
hopes of of joining the sniper platoon wasn't,
know big fans of me. But you know,
It's something that I I was... I knew
about. I knew that there were snipers, and
that's what I really wanted to do. So
I saw it as a as a gift.
(05:42):
And it just to became my mission then
to to proves that I I belong there.
John, Found it interesting this
idea that there were... There was quite a
bit of resistance both in war 2, and
apparently, when when that 1 was being stood
up again about the idea there shouldn't be
elite unit within
an already elite unit.
(06:03):
Is that just marine pride? Can you
enlighten a little bit?
Certainly. Yeah. I hit... And I can't speak
obviously, to the the full extent of of
world war 2, but there was a a
quote from a comment at le at the
time. That said the title marine should not
require any other addition to it. Right? So
the turn, there shouldn't be a term raider
(06:23):
or Commando, which was the first choice that
I get, marine should be enough for for
any task. And that's that's largely been true
across our history. But,
the Marine corps has, you know, always viewed
itself as, you United States is elite military
force. And so when you... Say that within
this Elite, you know, there will be another
elite. Then there's always been back, and that
(06:44):
was, you, in world war 2 and in
Vietnam, you know, post Vietnam, a lot of
the forced Recon were dis discounted.
Again, because the the idea was that any
marine should be able to do any task.
And that was part of the reason that
the corps
declines for the invitation to join Us so
come when it stood up in 19 87.
And then,
(07:05):
we're not terribly eager about it in, you
know, in 2003
when the... You know, we were told we
were gonna do it again. And those orders
came from who the sector of defense. Yes.
And I was Donald Rum filled at the
time. And he was out of it. I
think he. Meeting he was very shortly after
09:11 that
from what I gather, he recognized that
you know, what would become the global war
(07:26):
ontario was going to require
much greater participation by special operations forces. So
you know, very... Shortly after 09:11, he directed
that the the army special forces create more
at a Green race, and the navy create
more seals.
And this time, you told the marine corps
that that we were going to participate. It's
not a suggestion. It's an order. No. And
(07:47):
A was taken as the suggestion from you,
both the Marine corps and
and so calm. Yeah. There was a lot
of pushback, and then, ultimately, the decision was
that that, hey, will create a
a test bed unit, the proof of concept
unit, and that was attachment 1. John, something
I always asked those that particularly in uniform
(08:08):
at that time. Where were you on on
09/11/2001.
How did you hear about this?
U. So it's
1 of the probably more unusual tales, I
was setting in a pub in Darwin, Australia,
at Kid she,
Irish pub. And we had just
left, a few weeks before or on a
6 month, what where what was intended to
(08:28):
be a 6 month
deployment.
On onboard ship, you know, with an Ab
b, we would stop at ports and and
generally speaking, you would... You would stop places
you were train with with other militaries, in
some cases, you would train them.
But generally centered around the the Pacific and
the Middle East. And so our first stop
(08:48):
was Darwin, Australia. So I was... And it
was the first night that we had the
opportunity to go out town. So I was
setting at a table with my 3 team
leaders,
when the soccer game on television
switched the bartender started yelling, and we kinda
realized then that, you know, it was not
going to be your normal
deployment.
(09:10):
Interesting. I tried, John, we come back. I'd
like to talk more about the the challenges.
You were
1 of 14 team leaders handpicked by Marine
Recon Legend Colonel Robert Coats,
and he gave you
basically just 1 set of directions, and other
that, he'd be lifted up to you, but
I'm guessing there were some some challenges involved
(09:30):
with formula me, a new unit from nothing.
And having to train for an unknown mission
an unknown location. So we come back. I'd
like to talk with you more about that.
Ladies and Gentlemen, there's your host ben soon
we're talking with John Daly. Check is booked.
That's just being released soon, and it's called
tough rugged Bastards. I think I can say
it on the air Right, John.
(09:51):
No. Too late. We'll be right back.
(10:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio Ladies and
gentlemen. This is your host, Ben Garcia were
speaking with John Daly John was part of
4 team leaders
handpicked picked to bill what was then called
detachment 1. It's now known as Mars,
and he details this story in his new
book coming out called Tough rugged Bastards.
John,
my understanding is Colonel Robert Coach gave you
(10:35):
just a 1 sentence
direction.
And other than that, he gave me some
leeway on picking your team and what was
that statement he gave you?
What I I got his guidance, and I
walked down, I I wrote it down because
I said, hey, if I ever write a
book. This is the the title. So he
said,
we had known each other for a while,
but he said, hey, you have the authority
of to pick the guys that you want
(10:56):
on your team. My stipulation is that their
tough rugged bastards with strong backs and heartbeat
feet.
And that had always kind of been the...
Since I had known. I mean he had
been my commander at first force Recon, the
motto that we that we live by. Right,
be in, you know, tough rugged bastards. And
so it's
served as a a perfect title, I think
for the for the book. John Curious after
(11:18):
you have you, you know, you got your
14 team leaders just starting to pick your
team, but I had the... 1 of the
fellows who was responsible for standing up the
top gun training center. And
basically, he was given the orders to do
it, but no money came along with it.
Because like, they had to sc
everything they could've just to stand this unit
up. Was it kinda similar? Was there still
some resistance within the course and, hey, you
(11:41):
know, maybe if we don't give these guys
a money, or we give them, you know,
old beat up on bees and and bad
weapons, they'll they'll just go away.
There probably was... You know, somebody I probably
thought of that. But, when it when the
decision came down, 1 of the things that
anybody who is, you know, in the military,
this not in soc calm, you thinks about
Soc is that there's a unlimited
(12:03):
volkswagen pool right of, of hundred dollar bills.
And that used to be the case since
it's less the case now. But the decision
there was reach was at the Marine corps
was going to have to fund us. You
know, fund this proof of concept unit.
And the Marine corps was
I guess required to fund us to a
certain level. And so we did have a
lot of money coming in. The problem that
(12:26):
we had initially was that even if you
have all the money in the world, you
can't.
You can't get things as as quickly as
you would like. So when we stood up
with roughly 86 men that we started with,
We were living in borrow buildings. We didn't
have weapons. We didn't have any equipment. And
the 1 thing that most
Reconnaissance marines own is a rock. Yeah. They're
(12:47):
they're pack. Mh. So that's that's the 1
thing that we could do is was you
know, build strong backs and hard feet by
doing a lot of hiking in the mountains
in and around Camp Pedal, California.
Now, John, we talk about So calm who
else would be included under that umbrella. Obviously,
the Navy seals, So that include green be
raise,
(13:07):
delta,
Yeah. Army special forces, the Green be race,
the Army Rangers, the the Air force has
the the combat control teams and the the
pair rescue teams.
So there's there's quite a every service is
represented.
And was there something
specifically that the marines trained on to distinguish
your skill sets from some of those other
(13:29):
groups? I mean, pair rescues are pretty
specialized.
But was there something that the you and
the marine strain specifically forward at more kind
of generic
break things.
There is a lot... A lot of that.
But our our specialty has in force reconnaissance
gotta by the name has always been deep
reconnaissance. So going far behind enemy lines to
(13:50):
gather information essentially. And as... You know, you
mentioned earlier, we thought we were going to
Afghanistan
where that would have been a primary mission.
As it turned out about halfway door training,
we were told that we're were gonna go
to iraq there was less of a requirement
for that and lower of a requirement for
hunting
high value targets. And in that case,
(14:11):
you know, the seals, you know, there us
in a whole lot of water. Yeah. To...
Mh. For them to to deal with and
with the army special forces. So it's All
all of us were really we're all trained
to do the... What's called a direct action
mission, essentially going to a bad guy's house
in the middle the night and
bringing him home with us 1 way or
another.
(14:32):
How were the missions assigned? Is it just
whoever, whatever team happened to be available in
that region at that time then when did
decide. Was gonna go to the seals. It's
gonna go to debt 1.
This is gonna go to Green be or
did you... Did you have integrated teams?
Somewhat. Most... A a lot of time we
would work together, but primarily, we we each
had our own sectors that we worked in,
(14:54):
and we were also
largely all responsible for, kinda developing our own
missions. So we would based on information that
we would pull off of an objective, a
target somebody's house
Right. We would use, you know, our intelligence
folks would, figure out that, hey. Here's numbers
on a cell phone or here's, you know,
information or here's components for a an Ie
(15:15):
id that this guy was building that leads
to this other bad guy that we do
about. So we largely
kinda developed our own targets as we went
I'm getting the sense that when that 1
deployed into a iraq, there was still some
controversy maybe about The reason you even existed,
was there 1 mission that you can think
(15:36):
of, John that sorta of
cut your teeth and and
built your reputation were other special operators will
sound Okay. Yeah. These guys are the real
deal.
I think probably the first mission that we
did because it it was it was so
outside of the norm, I think, and I
was fortunate enough to be picked for for
that mission, and it
(15:57):
What had happened was 1 of our intelligence,
marines had discovered through reading intel reports that
a number,
17 or 18
Iraqi citizens who were working for the Us
as interpreter had been killed, you know, over
the span of of several months.
And so he started digging into it and,
you know, trying to figure out what was
(16:18):
going on and discovered that,
all of the the deceased had interacted with
1 other interpreter,
and it so happened that that interpreter was
a woman.
And so the...
Because he was a is
not a terribly
you know, there wasn't a high likelihood of
violence on the mission, but it was... It
(16:40):
was a mission that had to be handled
somewhat delicate,
and it was also... Yeah, we we really
couldn't afford to screw up our first cut
them time out the gate. So I was
lucky enough to be picked to lead it
because based on a lot of restrictions, we
had a seal that went with us.
I had you know, 1 of other... 1
of my marines and a human intelligence, Marine
(17:02):
that went with me. And because as I
mentioned, it was a female, we had to
have a woman there to search her. So
the Polish special operations unit had called the
Ground that we were
nearby. We reached out to them. They had
a female operative that they they let us
borrow kindly enough. And
it really turned into, you know, driving through
(17:23):
baghdad dead and civilian clothes and civilian vehicles,
going from place to place trying to find
this this lady.
And,
It took up most of the day, but
eventually, we found her, you know, and the
the the man that she had with her,
brought them back to be questioned
and discovered that,
you know, she was, in fact,
(17:43):
responsible, but she was un wit responsible. So
she had,
been be fronted by, you know, a gentleman
that
you know, was asking,
you know, asking questions, you,
convince her to give him some,
basically, a a roster,
a phone
contact list of other interpreter, you know, with
(18:04):
their addresses.
And so they were being targeted
individually, She was unaware of it.
But once we... You know, what she realized
that she had kind of been the been
dupe into the. She was eager
to
you know, pass on his information, and, you
know, he was the first guy that we
went after and kinda just kinda shake a
(18:26):
tree and, you know, a couple bad guys
fallout out, you get those bad guys question
them, and they lead to other bad guys.
Yeah. When we come back to John Wanna
follow up on next, it sounds like a
lot of your missions, you know, 1 target
led to another target led to another, and
it's a
Not a very well planned way of doing
business, but it sounds like it's was quite
effective ladies. And gentlemen, is your host ben
garcia We're speaking with John Daly. Don't forget
(18:48):
you can find this podcast and 500 others
at american warrior radio dot com we'll be
right back.
(19:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio Ladies and
gentlemen. This is your host, Ben Garcia.
Just a reminder, you can protect your hearing
and increase the accuracy of your hunting rifle
with a suppressor from silence or central. They'll
walk you through the paperwork, file your paperwork
with the Atf and send your new sal
right to your front door. To get started,
go to silence or central dot com or
call 8666938882
(19:35):
today.
We're talking with John. Dale John is a
marine. There's no such thing as a form
of marine. Right, John?
Yeah. That's that's something that's ingrained into us
early on. You know, from the time you
join regardless of whether you see us spend
1 enlist or a lifetime here. You think
of yourself and consider yourself as a marine.
John, I've I've talked to a number of
(19:56):
other special operators who
when they were in country there, they load
working with the poles and they loved working
with the the Ukrainians.
What was your evaluation of
avocados who you worked with paul's quite a
bit. What was your evaluation of their special
operators?
They were top shelf always privilege to work
with them. Whenever we needed help quite often
(20:18):
and we were a relatively small unit, as
I mentioned. So once you that 86 ultimately
be employed with about a hundred
men.
But within that hundred men we're our, you
know, administration folks and
communicators and logistics
mechanics and across the board and, wow, a
lot of them were used, you know, on
missions to drive vehicles or or help out,
(20:39):
you know, we were limited, you know, in
what we could
quite often hit you know, maybe 2 separate
buildings
at a time or 2 compounds
at a time. But if it got bigger
than that and Often it would,
if we knew that we were tracking, you
know, several members of a of a larger
family or several members of a particular
organization, that we would reach reach out and
(21:00):
ask the the G,
the police special operations for a hand. Yeah.
That's... I mentioned before the break it seems
like you're going from Target to Target. You
also
you outlined several the missions that your team
participated participated when you were deployed there. And
when it was, I think the the target
was given the name x.
And
This was... I mean, you'd get intelligence that
he's here at this place at this time
(21:21):
you'd get there and in no x. But
you started to find these family members
that All had a very close resemblance to
to your target.
And then that... You... You you pull on
that thread, and that would lead to some
other cousin or Uncle somewhere and eventually, you
got them, I guess.
Yeah. I mean, there were the him and
the 2 targets that We started out knowing
(21:44):
them as x and z or both
members of Saddam
regime. We gone former regime element folks, and
they were I think both of them were
the initial deck of cards. Guys. So they
were tricky. Right. Didn't hadn't stayed alive that
long by, you know, being stupid. So they
were incredibly care people they would almost never
stay in the same house twice in a
(22:04):
row. They would always have people out on
got rooftops, even towns away watching
and reporting back if Us military were approaching.
And he would always use you managed the
slow away. We came close a lot of
times, but as you mentioned, we found that
there was a very, very strong family resemblance
within,
his
(22:25):
family, members even extended family members. So we...
Finally,
on a mission, we we grabbed a couple
of them realize that they bore the resemblance.
We brought them back questioning.
And,
you know, eventually, some of his family members
pointed about. Said, yeah. He's the guy. Well,
it's certainly not like in the movies John
obviously, but
There's 1 other lady, but you call it,
(22:47):
though, the 1 armed man.
And
that involved a very
long hot shower for you afterwards. Right. For
you as well, you and your weapon, both.
It did. Yeah, we... This this guy, you
know, bomb makers if they make bombs long
enough, There's, like, the bold bomb makers and
old bomb makers, but there there aren't many
bold holes bomb makers, I guess. And this
(23:08):
1 had lost 1 of his arms in
a explosion at some point earlier.
We had been after him for quite a
while, and we got some information saying that
he was at a particular location out of
the farmland,
and it was it was always tricky to
approach targets
out there because the the roads consisted of
(23:29):
le, essentially on with waterways on either side,
and they were fine for smaller vehicles, but
our big Hu
would have trouble sometimes on them, the the
sides would would start to pave away. And
on this particular night, we had gotten
relatively close to the target when
that that happened. So the
(23:50):
roles of the levy started to give on
underneath the vehicles and the the decision was
made to
drop the the marines were gonna be a
assaulting off and have them move on foot
to the target.
Because of that, there was obviously the concern
that he had hurt us, and it it
was going to take, you know, to take
them on foot quite a while to get
(24:10):
to the objective. So
myself with my driver went down 1 of
the levi, and I assumes never assumed, obviously,
but the the water away was shallow enough
that I could wait across as the marines
were approaching the objective an over a helicopter
that we had overhead,
identified that
(24:31):
individual. They didn't couldn't tell that it was
our target, but stuck out the back and
was running through the the fields.
I felt that I was in the best
position to get too over rapidly, so I
jumped
into the water way that wound up being
a much deeper than I thought. And it
was full of
all sorts of sewage.
And so I wound up trying to swim
(24:52):
my way across and in full body armor
and plates so weapon I did did make
it across, but, you know, as soon as
I climbed out, I could smell myself I
knew that the it wasn't great. Ultimately
was able to talk with the helicopter that
was above me, thankfully our radios or or
waterproof approved, and they were able to help
guide me
into this
individual. So when I approached him,
(25:13):
he stood up, and, you know, I saw...
You know, once Sleeve was gonna swing in
empty and so we realized that we we
had him so that we had We had
got our lawmaker maker, and he had left
so fast that he left his his fake
prosthetic arm
back at his house.
I'm just glad you didn't have to fire
your weapon. I I don't think it might
have...
It may not. I may not. I had
(25:35):
give it up on my rifle. I tried
to
know, I I checked it, and he was
it was not a great shape my pistol.
I had cleared out and felt that it
was he was in a better better position.
But,
Yeah. Was... Yeah. Luckily, there by equipment was
is coded. You know, I never smelled quite
the same. That.
(25:56):
Add smaller those smells you probably can't ever
get out of your your your mind once
you've... No and I took luckily the, you
know, a couple of shots of of, you
know,
and I bacterial, gamma ob
took care of any any lingering issues.
You got government left before the next break,
Job, but you you described in your book
(26:16):
tough rugged bastards that maybe your most important
mission was providing, personal security detail for
high profile
targets,
potentially highest profile targets in Iraq.
1 of the things I found that, you
know, I've had a lot of guests on
that take great pride in the fact that
we we go around the world and we
(26:36):
we try as best we can to help
other societies
in protecting some of these folks and then
eventually seeing those images of the the people
with their their purple fingers
at, you know, they had their first probably
free election and forever, what was going through
your mind when you realized you had a
very important role there.
(26:57):
That was, I, incredibly interesting. That's providing security
details. It is something that we do occasionally,
but it's generally not at that level. I
mean, there are other people that do that.
But we were tasked with providing security for
the Iraqi interim government.
And particularly we were responsible for the vice
president.
And he was occurred, which meant that almost
(27:21):
everyone else in Iraq wanted him dead The
idea that a Kurdish,
citizen would you know, hold a position like
that iraq was was not something that most
kinda ethnic. Ira... You know, Ira iraqis, I
guess we're we're happy
about. So it was we knew it was
gonna be a challenge and we look forward
to the, you know, the opportunity to 1,
(27:43):
accept the challenge, but 2 to play a
little role, sub small role in the idea
that,
Ultimately, Our iraqis would be able to choose
her own fate at the ballot ox. And
you... I mean, you hear are these stories
about marines that throw themselves on a grenade
to to say their fellow marines, but you're...
You kinda were putting in a secret service
position where your job was to take a
bullet for that vice president.
(28:05):
Yes. And mine... My particular job and my
my team was to do the advanced
security.
So we weren't the body bunker, that was
why we would call it. But
so our job was to drive ahead, plan
the routes to make sure that you know,
the routes were clear, make sure that the
venues that the vice president was gonna visit.
(28:26):
Were... Had been checked for bombs and and
things like that provide counter cyber.
Support.
But, yeah, The marines in that position were,
you know, kinda of painfully label there that
sure. Yeah. That's not a mission that we
we traditionally do and and jumping in front
of a bullet is not something that we're
trained for. John, we come back. I wanna
(28:48):
talk about some of the lessons I took
for your book a civilian ladies and gentlemen
as your host, Ben Be Garcia will be
right back.
(29:12):
Welcome back to the American Gloria radio ladies
and Gentlemen. This is Ben Garcia having a
great chat John Daly, John's got a new
book out that I also highly recommend is
called Tough Rugged Masters,
and it describes his time starting up what
was end detachment 1 would now better known
as is Mars kind of the precursor to
Mars.
John Ben gets a a dumb question every
(29:33):
show, and I wanna out of the way
now before we run out of time. Can
you describe for me what a special operator
starter pack is?
Early on when people think of special operations
in the War on terror. It's it's certainly
the
army
special forces, the Green be raise that were
in the mountains of Afghanistan, early on big
beards, Baseball hats, sunglasses.
(29:54):
And Matt, kinda continued on, you know, if
any special operations guide just given the opportunity
to grow a beer. They're gonna do it.
And there's... Yeah, there's a whole lot of
cargo pants and hiking boots and
oakley sunglasses and baseball hats with with Velcro
on the front bald.
Interesting. Okay. I try and take something from
every Offers book, and I found some very
(30:16):
interesting lessons in there
that could be adapted to the civilian world,
John. 1 1 of the things you talked
about that Colonel Coats kind of a lesson
and leadership where you you gave guidance that's
as specific as necessary, but also as broad
as possible.
In order to
stir creativity
and to en gender ownership of the task.
(30:37):
And there is 1 particular mission
where you were... Think it was maybe z
where he was... He was gonna be in
this restaurant crowded market all around, just a
real tough
location to do this, and you had a
brainstorming
session with your team, and I was just
fascinated for me to read about how you
walk through that. Okay. We can't just roll
up an armored home bees because they'll see
(30:58):
us coming in a mile away. So you
decided to use cargo vans instead. And, you
know, the guy was driving had to be
in indigenous clothing with that big bushy beard
and just some stuff. And I mean, your
team came up with us on their own.
Yeah. And I think 1 of the lessons
I definitely learned from Colonel Coats is that
You, mean, then there's a difference between
(31:18):
conventional
infantry mission and a special operations patient, there
has to be. There's greater risk, because there's
greater not only risk to life, but there's
risk if the mission fails.
And so
everybody has got to be fully engaged and
involved in the planning. And that means that
you've gotta let people have ideas and weigh
in and
there's certainly a time to, you know, to
(31:39):
say, shut up. We're doing a my away
because we don't have time. But whenever you
can, you make sure that everyone feels that
they're, contributing member the team. But you never
know what good ideas are gonna pop out.
And that was certainly the case this time.
The older you get the longer you've been
in the military, the harder is to think
out inside the box. And I think that
absolutely applies to any field of endeavor, You
(32:02):
know, the more you gender,
the idea that
everybody can can weigh in, you know, without
thinking they're gonna be ridiculed or or put
down or dismissed that I think you get
better better information, better ideas and a a
more cohesive team. Well, that's certainly a lesson
that can be learned out there in the
the business community, John. I'd I I there's
other you listed some of rules that you
(32:24):
live by in Mars, and I can see
some applicability of these as well, except for
maybe well else sales resort to un violence.
We we don't wanna have people learning that
an Mba school. It would... Not not encouraging
in that. No. No. At it, but I'm
a use... The things like you can't use
what you don't have
and say that compromise is mission failure. Could
you expo on that topic for me real
(32:46):
quick?
That was... There was something that, you know,
I came out of colonel coach mouth quite
a bit. Alright. The the mission, particularly on
a reconnaissance mission is to get in unseen
operate on scene and get back on scene
with the information. So, you know, failure to
do that, means that you failed at the
mission that you were sent in to do.
And on a reconnaissance mission, that's generally happening
(33:08):
in advance of some other mission. So if
we couldn't do that successfully. If we couldn't
go in, see what we needed to see
gathered the information we need together and,
ex infiltrate
without being then we would not only compromise
ourselves, but we compromise the the follow on
mission. Do you need to take chances, but
you have to take measured chances
and to make sure that you're able to
(33:29):
fulfill your job without screwing somebody else's. So
I I misread that. So you're not talking
about compromise like between 2 people, you're talking
about being compromised?
Correct. Okay. Alright. Yeah, the last 1 that...
I I love this. If you're you're aren't
living on the edge or taking up to
much room.
Yeah. That was that was generally the the
(33:50):
kind of the unspoken
and I think I heard it later and
and added it in or somebody came up
with it later, but
it was
it's just kind of the way that we
lived is is reconnaissance Marines. You know, we
train hard. We trained hard. We
you know, But I learned... You know, I
realized that a lot of the, like, late
(34:10):
nights sitting in somebody's garage, drank beer, you
know, I learned a lot from them. Right?
Those are probably some of the the, opportunities
I had to ask questions safety. You know,
might have been considered dumb questions during Workday.
So we... Yeah, I said we we really
believed in training hard and playing hard, and
it it created an incredibly close a community
(34:32):
that was was
wildly capable and very challenging circumstances.
John, you and your fellow marines clearly prove
the concepts
that was... I mean, your your sort of
the test case for that? That... What were
your feelings when when that 1 was stood
down.
But... Was that surprising?
If it was,
(34:53):
it was... I think in our heads, we
believed that
that we would just be told to to
replicate. Right? To go find more guys and
make a debt too and
and grow that way. But the
decision based on the success that we had
and Iraq was that a, a larger
organization was gonna be formed. So Mars, which,
(35:14):
you know, has a couple of thousand marines
in it. So there's... So there's no way
that we could have replicated our 86 been
set off to
to have done that. So we... You know,
it it needed to be built a little
more specifically and a little more deliberately.
So he was... He was absolutely a sad
day when the
ceremony that kinda rolled up our flag
(35:36):
took place but we also realized that it
was the start of something bigger.
So... And John Daly mind still mission success?
Absolutely. Absolutely mission success.
With the advent
of satellite imagery and drones and all this
other technology,
I'd I'd be curious on your. So for
(35:57):
example, for me, John, I always believe that
there should always be a pilot in the
cockpit.
I'm just not a fan.
Of unmanned
fighter aircraft, but
applying kind the same context to to surveillance
and reconnaissance, do you think they'll always be
a need for for human surveillance actually boots
on the ground.
(36:19):
I think there will, and it's definitely changing.
Warfare is changing, and
I think to the
soc calm units, and, you know, it's the
marine corps units that I've in around our
recognizing that and taking advantage of technology rather
than kinda be moaning the fact that it's
gonna put them out of work. You, I
(36:39):
don't think that will happen.
You know, I think there's always going to
be a requirement for tough rugged ambassadors. Right?
For for hard men and women that are
well trained
and are willing to do what the nation
requires. Well, and I'm I'm thankful every day
that there are people like that,
yourself, sir, and and others I've had on
and just met in my personal life. I
(36:59):
it's certainly something
I could never achieve. And, but I said
I'm glad there.
As the phrase go. There's... We can sleep
at night because there's rough men ready to
do violence on our behalf or something to
that extent. Something like that. Something like that.
1 thing you and I do have in
common though is Marcus Aurelius. And I found
it interesting
(37:19):
over the evolution of your career
how your
psychological
take on the world sort of evolved.
And
tell us a little bit more about that.
We've got just a couple of minutes left.
Certainly, I
I don't think I had read any of
the stoic until I got to Iraq and
the the...
(37:40):
Our navy boss, the seal commander who was
in charge of us, handed me a copy
or I stole it, maybe. I don't know
a copy of
meditations. And that really, you know, I really
started to see. I I had prior to
that
understood stoic to be just being s wick
in your demeanor. Right?
(38:01):
Flat affect, I guess, But, after reading that,
I came to realize how much of it
I believed already and how much I didn't
know
already. And so, I it we were talking
earlier, we, I think each have several copies
of of meditations, you know, heavily annotated and
marked and I go back to it at
least once the year, if not more, and
(38:22):
I think the
you know, Marcus
Absolutely. You know, I not just Marcus aurelius,
but Seneca and Epic hepatitis and the other
stoic are, have a lot to teachers today.
Yeah. As I'm glad you mentioned that I
can't pronounce it right, but a picnic or
whatever he was. That's he's he's discussing some
good stuff too it. He, I I just
love the fact that it's
It's worn so well over the thousands of
(38:43):
years is still still great advice, particularly for
some young people that are exploring their life.
John Daly, thank you so much for joining
us. In American Warrior radio, and I appreciate
your service, and I appreciate you being willing
to tell your story.
Well, thanks. Then. I appreciate your anime.
Ladies and gentlemen get a copy of his
book is called tough Rugged bastards that's coming
out, should be on books bombshell. Probably right
(39:04):
about the time you hear this broadcast. And
I definitely think you'll enjoy the book. Don't
forget. You can download this podcast. Number 500
others at american warrior dot com or Whatever
your favorite podcast platform is, we're on all
the all the major ones, you can find
this information, and please please share these important
stories as you just heard from for our
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still need to hear about this. This hero
(39:26):
and bravery. Until next time ladies and gentlemen,
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Welcome to American Warrior Radio ladies and Gentlemen.
(00:26):
This is your host, Ben B Garcia. We're
broadcasting to you from the silence or Central
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(00:47):
If you don't anything think about military history,
you might recognize Edison raiders or Carlson raiders.
They were special operation forces established by the
Marine Corps during World war 2 to conduct
Amphibious light infantry warfare.
The raiders were distorted at 19 44.
There is interestingly enough some significant resistance within
the Marine corps towards as a concept of
having an elite unit within what many already
(01:08):
considered an elite unit. Fast forward 59 years
and the call came once again for the
Marines to establish a special force will be
permanently attached to Us special operations command. 86
man were selected to form the first force
rig reconnaissance company, debt 1 for short.
When they deployed Iraq the adopted the named
task unit rare tribute to their World war
2 lineage. Debt 1 was a proof of
(01:30):
concept unit that would lead to what is
now known as Mars.
Today on American Warrior radio, we're joined by
a man who bore part the responsibility for
standing up debt 1 He joined the marines
at the age of 17 and served with
them for over 20 years. His experience with
marine special forces and their role in the
Middle East is detailed at his new book,
tough, Rugged Bastards. Welcome to American World Radio,
(01:51):
John A Daily.
And thanks for having me on, and I
gotta get out of the way that Us
special Operations Command has
requested that I let everybody know that my
opinions are my own and do not reflect
theirs or anyone else's.
So okay. John, you it's great to have
you on American warrior radio. I did complete
your book. Your start with the marines
(02:12):
began when you were about 7 years old
at a fourth of July parade,
tell us that story.
Certainly. Yeah. It was
kinda special because of there's was the fourth
of July in 70 76. Right? So it
was a bi
of the nation that it was it was
very amped up. Right? It was
Everybody's parades parades were bigger that year, and
I was 7. Like, as you said.
(02:35):
So we had gone to a local. It
are the the nearest town, I guess, you
know, where my day played on a softball
team and we're
walking around
eating hot dogs, and I saw like on
the marine for the first time.
And he was in his... And and there's
a difference and I talk about this in
the book between, you know, what may have
actually happened and what in my mind happened,
(02:56):
You know? So you know, I can't recall
it any differently when I talked to my
dad. He doesn't remember the event happening at
all. But
you know, I I saw this marine. And
in my in my minds, I, he was
just
g, you know, veteran who had, you know,
big stack of ribbons, and, it was going
home for Vietnam, and that's
probably unlikely.
(03:16):
Alright. Because, you know, there were a lot
of a lot of folks corn, you know,
we're in the uniform at that time, you
know, especially but bathrooms with
you know, coming over Vietnam. So, it may
not be be that way. He may have
been a 18 year old kid that it
just got out of camp. But either way,
you know, that's in my mind, he will
always be, you know, that way, You know,
I looked at him, kinda saw him ask
(03:37):
my dad who had served in the navy.
There in Vietnam, at, you know, what is
that guy? And he said, that's a marine.
And the other thing that my dad will
never ever admit was said to was, like,
a little bit of of
jealousy and his in his voice that I
remember when he said that. So I I
went back and read, you know, just started
checking out books from the library because that's
(03:58):
you know, how we learn things back in
those days about the Marine corps and and
really kinda solidified my
position then and there that that was that
was what I wanted to do. John, I
finally I really, you kinda gave me as
my mom say a hurdle and reading your
book. Your your journey to force Recon
may have actually been due to a clerical
error.
(04:18):
Yeah. That... So so in the military or
especially in the rank for your Mo your
military occupational specially is designated by a 4
digit code. If it's o 3, it's infantry.
And then within the infantry, Mo, there there
are a lot of
There's an infantry, which is no 03:11. There's
mortar, there's machine gutter, you know, and and
I tank rifle, you know, down the line.
(04:40):
When I checked in, I was... To my
first unit after Boot camp happen after infantry
school. I was told to get off the
bus go report in which I did, and
there had been an error of assigning me
to the weapons company
instead of a, an infantry platoon. So the
rather than fix the error of the decision
was was made that the the easiest thing
(05:01):
to do would be to assign me to
the cyber platoon, which was not the easiest
for me because, you, everybody else who made
their way into the sniper platoon, generally spent
a couple of years in the infantry, the
had to try out,
and it was a it was a pretty
rigorous thing to get into a sniper tune.
So I'd kinda skipped the line in front
(05:21):
of,
quite a few people. So the the marines
in the platoon weren't weren't big fans of
me. Everybody else, you know, who had any
hopes of of joining the sniper platoon wasn't,
know big fans of me. But you know,
It's something that I I was... I knew
about. I knew that there were snipers, and
that's what I really wanted to do. So
I saw it as a as a gift.
(05:42):
And it just to became my mission then
to to proves that I I belong there.
John, Found it interesting this
idea that there were... There was quite a
bit of resistance both in war 2, and
apparently, when when that 1 was being stood
up again about the idea there shouldn't be
elite unit within
an already elite unit.
(06:03):
Is that just marine pride? Can you
enlighten a little bit?
Certainly. Yeah. I hit... And I can't speak
obviously, to the the full extent of of
world war 2, but there was a a
quote from a comment at le at the
time. That said the title marine should not
require any other addition to it. Right? So
the turn, there shouldn't be a term raider
(06:23):
or Commando, which was the first choice that
I get, marine should be enough for for
any task. And that's that's largely been true
across our history. But,
the Marine corps has, you know, always viewed
itself as, you United States is elite military
force. And so when you... Say that within
this Elite, you know, there will be another
elite. Then there's always been back, and that
(06:44):
was, you, in world war 2 and in
Vietnam, you know, post Vietnam, a lot of
the forced Recon were dis discounted.
Again, because the the idea was that any
marine should be able to do any task.
And that was part of the reason that
the corps
declines for the invitation to join Us so
come when it stood up in 19 87.
And then,
(07:05):
we're not terribly eager about it in, you
know, in 2003
when the... You know, we were told we
were gonna do it again. And those orders
came from who the sector of defense. Yes.
And I was Donald Rum filled at the
time. And he was out of it. I
think he. Meeting he was very shortly after
09:11 that
from what I gather, he recognized that
you know, what would become the global war
(07:26):
ontario was going to require
much greater participation by special operations forces. So
you know, very... Shortly after 09:11, he directed
that the the army special forces create more
at a Green race, and the navy create
more seals.
And this time, you told the marine corps
that that we were going to participate. It's
not a suggestion. It's an order. No. And
(07:47):
A was taken as the suggestion from you,
both the Marine corps and
and so calm. Yeah. There was a lot
of pushback, and then, ultimately, the decision was
that that, hey, will create a
a test bed unit, the proof of concept
unit, and that was attachment 1. John, something
I always asked those that particularly in uniform
(08:08):
at that time. Where were you on on
09/11/2001.
How did you hear about this?
U. So it's
1 of the probably more unusual tales, I
was setting in a pub in Darwin, Australia,
at Kid she,
Irish pub. And we had just
left, a few weeks before or on a
6 month, what where what was intended to
(08:28):
be a 6 month
deployment.
On onboard ship, you know, with an Ab
b, we would stop at ports and and
generally speaking, you would... You would stop places
you were train with with other militaries, in
some cases, you would train them.
But generally centered around the the Pacific and
the Middle East. And so our first stop
(08:48):
was Darwin, Australia. So I was... And it
was the first night that we had the
opportunity to go out town. So I was
setting at a table with my 3 team
leaders,
when the soccer game on television
switched the bartender started yelling, and we kinda
realized then that, you know, it was not
going to be your normal
deployment.
(09:10):
Interesting. I tried, John, we come back. I'd
like to talk more about the the challenges.
You were
1 of 14 team leaders handpicked by Marine
Recon Legend Colonel Robert Coats,
and he gave you
basically just 1 set of directions, and other
that, he'd be lifted up to you, but
I'm guessing there were some some challenges involved
(09:30):
with formula me, a new unit from nothing.
And having to train for an unknown mission
an unknown location. So we come back. I'd
like to talk with you more about that.
Ladies and Gentlemen, there's your host ben soon
we're talking with John Daly. Check is booked.
That's just being released soon, and it's called
tough rugged Bastards. I think I can say
it on the air Right, John.
(09:51):
No. Too late. We'll be right back.
(10:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio Ladies and
gentlemen. This is your host, Ben Garcia were
speaking with John Daly John was part of
4 team leaders
handpicked picked to bill what was then called
detachment 1. It's now known as Mars,
and he details this story in his new
book coming out called Tough rugged Bastards.
John,
my understanding is Colonel Robert Coach gave you
(10:35):
just a 1 sentence
direction.
And other than that, he gave me some
leeway on picking your team and what was
that statement he gave you?
What I I got his guidance, and I
walked down, I I wrote it down because
I said, hey, if I ever write a
book. This is the the title. So he
said,
we had known each other for a while,
but he said, hey, you have the authority
of to pick the guys that you want
(10:56):
on your team. My stipulation is that their
tough rugged bastards with strong backs and heartbeat
feet.
And that had always kind of been the...
Since I had known. I mean he had
been my commander at first force Recon, the
motto that we that we live by. Right,
be in, you know, tough rugged bastards. And
so it's
served as a a perfect title, I think
for the for the book. John Curious after
(11:18):
you have you, you know, you got your
14 team leaders just starting to pick your
team, but I had the... 1 of the
fellows who was responsible for standing up the
top gun training center. And
basically, he was given the orders to do
it, but no money came along with it.
Because like, they had to sc
everything they could've just to stand this unit
up. Was it kinda similar? Was there still
some resistance within the course and, hey, you
(11:41):
know, maybe if we don't give these guys
a money, or we give them, you know,
old beat up on bees and and bad
weapons, they'll they'll just go away.
There probably was... You know, somebody I probably
thought of that. But, when it when the
decision came down, 1 of the things that
anybody who is, you know, in the military,
this not in soc calm, you thinks about
Soc is that there's a unlimited
(12:03):
volkswagen pool right of, of hundred dollar bills.
And that used to be the case since
it's less the case now. But the decision
there was reach was at the Marine corps
was going to have to fund us. You
know, fund this proof of concept unit.
And the Marine corps was
I guess required to fund us to a
certain level. And so we did have a
lot of money coming in. The problem that
(12:26):
we had initially was that even if you
have all the money in the world, you
can't.
You can't get things as as quickly as
you would like. So when we stood up
with roughly 86 men that we started with,
We were living in borrow buildings. We didn't
have weapons. We didn't have any equipment. And
the 1 thing that most
Reconnaissance marines own is a rock. Yeah. They're
(12:47):
they're pack. Mh. So that's that's the 1
thing that we could do is was you
know, build strong backs and hard feet by
doing a lot of hiking in the mountains
in and around Camp Pedal, California.
Now, John, we talk about So calm who
else would be included under that umbrella. Obviously,
the Navy seals, So that include green be
raise,
(13:07):
delta,
Yeah. Army special forces, the Green be race,
the Army Rangers, the the Air force has
the the combat control teams and the the
pair rescue teams.
So there's there's quite a every service is
represented.
And was there something
specifically that the marines trained on to distinguish
your skill sets from some of those other
(13:29):
groups? I mean, pair rescues are pretty
specialized.
But was there something that the you and
the marine strain specifically forward at more kind
of generic
break things.
There is a lot... A lot of that.
But our our specialty has in force reconnaissance
gotta by the name has always been deep
reconnaissance. So going far behind enemy lines to
(13:50):
gather information essentially. And as... You know, you
mentioned earlier, we thought we were going to
Afghanistan
where that would have been a primary mission.
As it turned out about halfway door training,
we were told that we're were gonna go
to iraq there was less of a requirement
for that and lower of a requirement for
hunting
high value targets. And in that case,
(14:11):
you know, the seals, you know, there us
in a whole lot of water. Yeah. To...
Mh. For them to to deal with and
with the army special forces. So it's All
all of us were really we're all trained
to do the... What's called a direct action
mission, essentially going to a bad guy's house
in the middle the night and
bringing him home with us 1 way or
another.
(14:32):
How were the missions assigned? Is it just
whoever, whatever team happened to be available in
that region at that time then when did
decide. Was gonna go to the seals. It's
gonna go to debt 1.
This is gonna go to Green be or
did you... Did you have integrated teams?
Somewhat. Most... A a lot of time we
would work together, but primarily, we we each
had our own sectors that we worked in,
(14:54):
and we were also
largely all responsible for, kinda developing our own
missions. So we would based on information that
we would pull off of an objective, a
target somebody's house
Right. We would use, you know, our intelligence
folks would, figure out that, hey. Here's numbers
on a cell phone or here's, you know,
information or here's components for a an Ie
(15:15):
id that this guy was building that leads
to this other bad guy that we do
about. So we largely
kinda developed our own targets as we went
I'm getting the sense that when that 1
deployed into a iraq, there was still some
controversy maybe about The reason you even existed,
was there 1 mission that you can think
(15:36):
of, John that sorta of
cut your teeth and and
built your reputation were other special operators will
sound Okay. Yeah. These guys are the real
deal.
I think probably the first mission that we
did because it it was it was so
outside of the norm, I think, and I
was fortunate enough to be picked for for
that mission, and it
(15:57):
What had happened was 1 of our intelligence,
marines had discovered through reading intel reports that
a number,
17 or 18
Iraqi citizens who were working for the Us
as interpreter had been killed, you know, over
the span of of several months.
And so he started digging into it and,
you know, trying to figure out what was
(16:18):
going on and discovered that,
all of the the deceased had interacted with
1 other interpreter,
and it so happened that that interpreter was
a woman.
And so the...
Because he was a is
not a terribly
you know, there wasn't a high likelihood of
violence on the mission, but it was... It
(16:40):
was a mission that had to be handled
somewhat delicate,
and it was also... Yeah, we we really
couldn't afford to screw up our first cut
them time out the gate. So I was
lucky enough to be picked to lead it
because based on a lot of restrictions, we
had a seal that went with us.
I had you know, 1 of other... 1
of my marines and a human intelligence, Marine
(17:02):
that went with me. And because as I
mentioned, it was a female, we had to
have a woman there to search her. So
the Polish special operations unit had called the
Ground that we were
nearby. We reached out to them. They had
a female operative that they they let us
borrow kindly enough. And
it really turned into, you know, driving through
(17:23):
baghdad dead and civilian clothes and civilian vehicles,
going from place to place trying to find
this this lady.
And,
It took up most of the day, but
eventually, we found her, you know, and the
the the man that she had with her,
brought them back to be questioned
and discovered that,
you know, she was, in fact,
(17:43):
responsible, but she was un wit responsible. So
she had,
been be fronted by, you know, a gentleman
that
you know, was asking,
you know, asking questions, you,
convince her to give him some,
basically, a a roster,
a phone
contact list of other interpreter, you know, with
(18:04):
their addresses.
And so they were being targeted
individually, She was unaware of it.
But once we... You know, what she realized
that she had kind of been the been
dupe into the. She was eager
to
you know, pass on his information, and, you
know, he was the first guy that we
went after and kinda just kinda shake a
(18:26):
tree and, you know, a couple bad guys
fallout out, you get those bad guys question
them, and they lead to other bad guys.
Yeah. When we come back to John Wanna
follow up on next, it sounds like a
lot of your missions, you know, 1 target
led to another target led to another, and
it's a
Not a very well planned way of doing
business, but it sounds like it's was quite
effective ladies. And gentlemen, is your host ben
garcia We're speaking with John Daly. Don't forget
(18:48):
you can find this podcast and 500 others
at american warrior radio dot com we'll be
right back.
(19:12):
Welcome back to American Warrior Radio Ladies and
gentlemen. This is your host, Ben Garcia.
Just a reminder, you can protect your hearing
and increase the accuracy of your hunting rifle
with a suppressor from silence or central. They'll
walk you through the paperwork, file your paperwork
with the Atf and send your new sal
right to your front door. To get started,
go to silence or central dot com or
call 8666938882
(19:35):
today.
We're talking with John. Dale John is a
marine. There's no such thing as a form
of marine. Right, John?
Yeah. That's that's something that's ingrained into us
early on. You know, from the time you
join regardless of whether you see us spend
1 enlist or a lifetime here. You think
of yourself and consider yourself as a marine.
John, I've I've talked to a number of
(19:56):
other special operators who
when they were in country there, they load
working with the poles and they loved working
with the the Ukrainians.
What was your evaluation of
avocados who you worked with paul's quite a
bit. What was your evaluation of their special
operators?
They were top shelf always privilege to work
with them. Whenever we needed help quite often
(20:18):
and we were a relatively small unit, as
I mentioned. So once you that 86 ultimately
be employed with about a hundred
men.
But within that hundred men we're our, you
know, administration folks and
communicators and logistics
mechanics and across the board and, wow, a
lot of them were used, you know, on
missions to drive vehicles or or help out,
(20:39):
you know, we were limited, you know, in
what we could
quite often hit you know, maybe 2 separate
buildings
at a time or 2 compounds
at a time. But if it got bigger
than that and Often it would,
if we knew that we were tracking, you
know, several members of a of a larger
family or several members of a particular
organization, that we would reach reach out and
(21:00):
ask the the G,
the police special operations for a hand. Yeah.
That's... I mentioned before the break it seems
like you're going from Target to Target. You
also
you outlined several the missions that your team
participated participated when you were deployed there. And
when it was, I think the the target
was given the name x.
And
This was... I mean, you'd get intelligence that
he's here at this place at this time
(21:21):
you'd get there and in no x. But
you started to find these family members
that All had a very close resemblance to
to your target.
And then that... You... You you pull on
that thread, and that would lead to some
other cousin or Uncle somewhere and eventually, you
got them, I guess.
Yeah. I mean, there were the him and
the 2 targets that We started out knowing
(21:44):
them as x and z or both
members of Saddam
regime. We gone former regime element folks, and
they were I think both of them were
the initial deck of cards. Guys. So they
were tricky. Right. Didn't hadn't stayed alive that
long by, you know, being stupid. So they
were incredibly care people they would almost never
stay in the same house twice in a
(22:04):
row. They would always have people out on
got rooftops, even towns away watching
and reporting back if Us military were approaching.
And he would always use you managed the
slow away. We came close a lot of
times, but as you mentioned, we found that
there was a very, very strong family resemblance
within,
his
(22:25):
family, members even extended family members. So we...
Finally,
on a mission, we we grabbed a couple
of them realize that they bore the resemblance.
We brought them back questioning.
And,
you know, eventually, some of his family members
pointed about. Said, yeah. He's the guy. Well,
it's certainly not like in the movies John
obviously, but
There's 1 other lady, but you call it,
(22:47):
though, the 1 armed man.
And
that involved a very
long hot shower for you afterwards. Right. For
you as well, you and your weapon, both.
It did. Yeah, we... This this guy, you
know, bomb makers if they make bombs long
enough, There's, like, the bold bomb makers and
old bomb makers, but there there aren't many
bold holes bomb makers, I guess. And this
(23:08):
1 had lost 1 of his arms in
a explosion at some point earlier.
We had been after him for quite a
while, and we got some information saying that
he was at a particular location out of
the farmland,
and it was it was always tricky to
approach targets
out there because the the roads consisted of
(23:29):
le, essentially on with waterways on either side,
and they were fine for smaller vehicles, but
our big Hu
would have trouble sometimes on them, the the
sides would would start to pave away. And
on this particular night, we had gotten
relatively close to the target when
that that happened. So the
(23:50):
roles of the levy started to give on
underneath the vehicles and the the decision was
made to
drop the the marines were gonna be a
assaulting off and have them move on foot
to the target.
Because of that, there was obviously the concern
that he had hurt us, and it it
was going to take, you know, to take
them on foot quite a while to get
(24:10):
to the objective. So
myself with my driver went down 1 of
the levi, and I assumes never assumed, obviously,
but the the water away was shallow enough
that I could wait across as the marines
were approaching the objective an over a helicopter
that we had overhead,
identified that
(24:31):
individual. They didn't couldn't tell that it was
our target, but stuck out the back and
was running through the the fields.
I felt that I was in the best
position to get too over rapidly, so I
jumped
into the water way that wound up being
a much deeper than I thought. And it
was full of
all sorts of sewage.
And so I wound up trying to swim
(24:52):
my way across and in full body armor
and plates so weapon I did did make
it across, but, you know, as soon as
I climbed out, I could smell myself I
knew that the it wasn't great. Ultimately
was able to talk with the helicopter that
was above me, thankfully our radios or or
waterproof approved, and they were able to help
guide me
into this
individual. So when I approached him,
(25:13):
he stood up, and, you know, I saw...
You know, once Sleeve was gonna swing in
empty and so we realized that we we
had him so that we had We had
got our lawmaker maker, and he had left
so fast that he left his his fake
prosthetic arm
back at his house.
I'm just glad you didn't have to fire
your weapon. I I don't think it might
have...
It may not. I may not. I had
(25:35):
give it up on my rifle. I tried
to
know, I I checked it, and he was
it was not a great shape my pistol.
I had cleared out and felt that it
was he was in a better better position.
But,
Yeah. Was... Yeah. Luckily, there by equipment was
is coded. You know, I never smelled quite
the same. That.
(25:56):
Add smaller those smells you probably can't ever
get out of your your your mind once
you've... No and I took luckily the, you
know, a couple of shots of of, you
know,
and I bacterial, gamma ob
took care of any any lingering issues.
You got government left before the next break,
Job, but you you described in your book
(26:16):
tough rugged bastards that maybe your most important
mission was providing, personal security detail for
high profile
targets,
potentially highest profile targets in Iraq.
1 of the things I found that, you
know, I've had a lot of guests on
that take great pride in the fact that
we we go around the world and we
(26:36):
we try as best we can to help
other societies
in protecting some of these folks and then
eventually seeing those images of the the people
with their their purple fingers
at, you know, they had their first probably
free election and forever, what was going through
your mind when you realized you had a
very important role there.
(26:57):
That was, I, incredibly interesting. That's providing security
details. It is something that we do occasionally,
but it's generally not at that level. I
mean, there are other people that do that.
But we were tasked with providing security for
the Iraqi interim government.
And particularly we were responsible for the vice
president.
And he was occurred, which meant that almost
(27:21):
everyone else in Iraq wanted him dead The
idea that a Kurdish,
citizen would you know, hold a position like
that iraq was was not something that most
kinda ethnic. Ira... You know, Ira iraqis, I
guess we're we're happy
about. So it was we knew it was
gonna be a challenge and we look forward
to the, you know, the opportunity to 1,
(27:43):
accept the challenge, but 2 to play a
little role, sub small role in the idea
that,
Ultimately, Our iraqis would be able to choose
her own fate at the ballot ox. And
you... I mean, you hear are these stories
about marines that throw themselves on a grenade
to to say their fellow marines, but you're...
You kinda were putting in a secret service
position where your job was to take a
bullet for that vice president.
(28:05):
Yes. And mine... My particular job and my
my team was to do the advanced
security.
So we weren't the body bunker, that was
why we would call it. But
so our job was to drive ahead, plan
the routes to make sure that you know,
the routes were clear, make sure that the
venues that the vice president was gonna visit.
(28:26):
Were... Had been checked for bombs and and
things like that provide counter cyber.
Support.
But, yeah, The marines in that position were,
you know, kinda of painfully label there that
sure. Yeah. That's not a mission that we
we traditionally do and and jumping in front
of a bullet is not something that we're
trained for. John, we come back. I wanna
(28:48):
talk about some of the lessons I took
for your book a civilian ladies and gentlemen
as your host, Ben Be Garcia will be
right back.
(29:12):
Welcome back to the American Gloria radio ladies
and Gentlemen. This is Ben Garcia having a
great chat John Daly, John's got a new
book out that I also highly recommend is
called Tough Rugged Masters,
and it describes his time starting up what
was end detachment 1 would now better known
as is Mars kind of the precursor to
Mars.
John Ben gets a a dumb question every
(29:33):
show, and I wanna out of the way
now before we run out of time. Can
you describe for me what a special operator
starter pack is?
Early on when people think of special operations
in the War on terror. It's it's certainly
the
army
special forces, the Green be raise that were
in the mountains of Afghanistan, early on big
beards, Baseball hats, sunglasses.
(29:54):
And Matt, kinda continued on, you know, if
any special operations guide just given the opportunity
to grow a beer. They're gonna do it.
And there's... Yeah, there's a whole lot of
cargo pants and hiking boots and
oakley sunglasses and baseball hats with with Velcro
on the front bald.
Interesting. Okay. I try and take something from
every Offers book, and I found some very
(30:16):
interesting lessons in there
that could be adapted to the civilian world,
John. 1 1 of the things you talked
about that Colonel Coats kind of a lesson
and leadership where you you gave guidance that's
as specific as necessary, but also as broad
as possible.
In order to
stir creativity
and to en gender ownership of the task.
(30:37):
And there is 1 particular mission
where you were... Think it was maybe z
where he was... He was gonna be in
this restaurant crowded market all around, just a
real tough
location to do this, and you had a
brainstorming
session with your team, and I was just
fascinated for me to read about how you
walk through that. Okay. We can't just roll
up an armored home bees because they'll see
(30:58):
us coming in a mile away. So you
decided to use cargo vans instead. And, you
know, the guy was driving had to be
in indigenous clothing with that big bushy beard
and just some stuff. And I mean, your
team came up with us on their own.
Yeah. And I think 1 of the lessons
I definitely learned from Colonel Coats is that
You, mean, then there's a difference between
(31:18):
conventional
infantry mission and a special operations patient, there
has to be. There's greater risk, because there's
greater not only risk to life, but there's
risk if the mission fails.
And so
everybody has got to be fully engaged and
involved in the planning. And that means that
you've gotta let people have ideas and weigh
in and
there's certainly a time to, you know, to
(31:39):
say, shut up. We're doing a my away
because we don't have time. But whenever you
can, you make sure that everyone feels that
they're, contributing member the team. But you never
know what good ideas are gonna pop out.
And that was certainly the case this time.
The older you get the longer you've been
in the military, the harder is to think
out inside the box. And I think that
absolutely applies to any field of endeavor, You
(32:02):
know, the more you gender,
the idea that
everybody can can weigh in, you know, without
thinking they're gonna be ridiculed or or put
down or dismissed that I think you get
better better information, better ideas and a a
more cohesive team. Well, that's certainly a lesson
that can be learned out there in the
the business community, John. I'd I I there's
other you listed some of rules that you
(32:24):
live by in Mars, and I can see
some applicability of these as well, except for
maybe well else sales resort to un violence.
We we don't wanna have people learning that
an Mba school. It would... Not not encouraging
in that. No. No. At it, but I'm
a use... The things like you can't use
what you don't have
and say that compromise is mission failure. Could
you expo on that topic for me real
(32:46):
quick?
That was... There was something that, you know,
I came out of colonel coach mouth quite
a bit. Alright. The the mission, particularly on
a reconnaissance mission is to get in unseen
operate on scene and get back on scene
with the information. So, you know, failure to
do that, means that you failed at the
mission that you were sent in to do.
And on a reconnaissance mission, that's generally happening
(33:08):
in advance of some other mission. So if
we couldn't do that successfully. If we couldn't
go in, see what we needed to see
gathered the information we need together and,
ex infiltrate
without being then we would not only compromise
ourselves, but we compromise the the follow on
mission. Do you need to take chances, but
you have to take measured chances
and to make sure that you're able to
(33:29):
fulfill your job without screwing somebody else's. So
I I misread that. So you're not talking
about compromise like between 2 people, you're talking
about being compromised?
Correct. Okay. Alright. Yeah, the last 1 that...
I I love this. If you're you're aren't
living on the edge or taking up to
much room.
Yeah. That was that was generally the the
(33:50):
kind of the unspoken
and I think I heard it later and
and added it in or somebody came up
with it later, but
it was
it's just kind of the way that we
lived is is reconnaissance Marines. You know, we
train hard. We trained hard. We
you know, But I learned... You know, I
realized that a lot of the, like, late
(34:10):
nights sitting in somebody's garage, drank beer, you
know, I learned a lot from them. Right?
Those are probably some of the the, opportunities
I had to ask questions safety. You know,
might have been considered dumb questions during Workday.
So we... Yeah, I said we we really
believed in training hard and playing hard, and
it it created an incredibly close a community
(34:32):
that was was
wildly capable and very challenging circumstances.
John, you and your fellow marines clearly prove
the concepts
that was... I mean, your your sort of
the test case for that? That... What were
your feelings when when that 1 was stood
down.
But... Was that surprising?
If it was,
(34:53):
it was... I think in our heads, we
believed that
that we would just be told to to
replicate. Right? To go find more guys and
make a debt too and
and grow that way. But the
decision based on the success that we had
and Iraq was that a, a larger
organization was gonna be formed. So Mars, which,
(35:14):
you know, has a couple of thousand marines
in it. So there's... So there's no way
that we could have replicated our 86 been
set off to
to have done that. So we... You know,
it it needed to be built a little
more specifically and a little more deliberately.
So he was... He was absolutely a sad
day when the
ceremony that kinda rolled up our flag
(35:36):
took place but we also realized that it
was the start of something bigger.
So... And John Daly mind still mission success?
Absolutely. Absolutely mission success.
With the advent
of satellite imagery and drones and all this
other technology,
I'd I'd be curious on your. So for
(35:57):
example, for me, John, I always believe that
there should always be a pilot in the
cockpit.
I'm just not a fan.
Of unmanned
fighter aircraft, but
applying kind the same context to to surveillance
and reconnaissance, do you think they'll always be
a need for for human surveillance actually boots
on the ground.
(36:19):
I think there will, and it's definitely changing.
Warfare is changing, and
I think to the
soc calm units, and, you know, it's the
marine corps units that I've in around our
recognizing that and taking advantage of technology rather
than kinda be moaning the fact that it's
gonna put them out of work. You, I
(36:39):
don't think that will happen.
You know, I think there's always going to
be a requirement for tough rugged ambassadors. Right?
For for hard men and women that are
well trained
and are willing to do what the nation
requires. Well, and I'm I'm thankful every day
that there are people like that,
yourself, sir, and and others I've had on
and just met in my personal life. I
(36:59):
it's certainly something
I could never achieve. And, but I said
I'm glad there.
As the phrase go. There's... We can sleep
at night because there's rough men ready to
do violence on our behalf or something to
that extent. Something like that. Something like that.
1 thing you and I do have in
common though is Marcus Aurelius. And I found
it interesting
(37:19):
over the evolution of your career
how your
psychological
take on the world sort of evolved.
And
tell us a little bit more about that.
We've got just a couple of minutes left.
Certainly, I
I don't think I had read any of
the stoic until I got to Iraq and
the the...
(37:40):
Our navy boss, the seal commander who was
in charge of us, handed me a copy
or I stole it, maybe. I don't know
a copy of
meditations. And that really, you know, I really
started to see. I I had prior to
that
understood stoic to be just being s wick
in your demeanor. Right?
(38:01):
Flat affect, I guess, But, after reading that,
I came to realize how much of it
I believed already and how much I didn't
know
already. And so, I it we were talking
earlier, we, I think each have several copies
of of meditations, you know, heavily annotated and
marked and I go back to it at
least once the year, if not more, and
(38:22):
I think the
you know, Marcus
Absolutely. You know, I not just Marcus aurelius,
but Seneca and Epic hepatitis and the other
stoic are, have a lot to teachers today.
Yeah. As I'm glad you mentioned that I
can't pronounce it right, but a picnic or
whatever he was. That's he's he's discussing some
good stuff too it. He, I I just
love the fact that it's
It's worn so well over the thousands of
(38:43):
years is still still great advice, particularly for
some young people that are exploring their life.
John Daly, thank you so much for joining
us. In American Warrior radio, and I appreciate
your service, and I appreciate you being willing
to tell your story.
Well, thanks. Then. I appreciate your anime.
Ladies and gentlemen get a copy of his
book is called tough Rugged bastards that's coming
out, should be on books bombshell. Probably right
(39:04):
about the time you hear this broadcast. And
I definitely think you'll enjoy the book. Don't
forget. You can download this podcast. Number 500
others at american warrior dot com or Whatever
your favorite podcast platform is, we're on all
the all the major ones, you can find
this information, and please please share these important
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(39:26):
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