October 31, 2025 • 62 mins
In this gripping and hope-filled conversation, Cynthia Marks sits down with Adonai Melendez, a Homeboy Industries trainee and reentry advocate, to trace his journey from childhood trauma and gang life to accountability, faith, and service. Adonai describes fleeing civil war, a painful break from his grandmother, and an adolescence that made gangs feel like the only family offering safety and belonging. At 16, he committed a murder; decades in prison followed, where he learned the “politics” of survival, and then, through a searing moment of empathy, began transforming from the inside out. He chose programs, accountability, and love-based action, discovering that giving others power made him truly powerful. Released after nearly 31 years, Adonai rediscovered the world in color, found purpose in community work, and entered Homeboy Industries, where therapy, structure, and dignity anchor his new life. Today he serves people facing homelessness, mental health challenges, and reentry barriers; living proof that we are not defined by our worst act but by what we do next. His message is simple and radical: every person is meant to be loved, and we always have a choice.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hello,
I'm Cynthia Marksand I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation, established by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Adonai Melendez is in the studio today.
He is currently a traineewith Homeboy Industries
(00:24):
and working to becomefully reintegrated back into society.
I bet you're curious.
Adonai has bravely and wholeheartedly
offeredto share his fascinating story with us.
He and I hope that you,our listeners, will be absolutely moved
by his transformationfrom a life of pain and fear and anger.
(00:47):
And that's putting it mildlyto one of empathy, compassion and love.
If this man found a wayto make giant leaps for the better,
then the rest of us can too.
So let's hear what he has to say.
Welcome. Hello. Thank you.
Thank you for being here.
This is really a treasure, and I can'twait to hear what you have to say.
(01:11):
And I have some questionshere, and I may stick to them,
and I may go off track,but start with where you are now.
You're at Homeboy Industries,
and just fill us in a little bitabout what Homeboy Industries is.
I am in Hollywood Industries. I'ma trainee.
Homeboy industries is an organizationthat was founded by Father Greg Boyle.
And Homeboy Industries isis an organization that helps.
(01:35):
Ex-gang members primarily for resourcesand the other things that formerly
incarcerated folks like myself, are inneed of, be it funds, programing.
Education. Education.
It's a wraparound programthat gives us the opportunity
to reintegrate back into society,not just have, positive interactions
(01:57):
with people, but also establish ourselveswith careers and, and,
you know,just be fully integrated back into society
and all of one's great opportunities. Yes.
So in order to take partin what Homeboy Industries has to offer,
do you have to come from incarceration?
No, no, no, of course not.Anybody is welcome.
(02:18):
Homeboy is faith based and love based.
Whoever comes through those doorsis more than welcome to receive help.
If we can provide it, we will.
It's a lovely thing,and it's so easy to feel
that energywhen you're in the homeboys space.
It's almost electrifying.
(02:38):
I remember being there in the gang.
Oh my gosh, there'ssort of so much tenderness and truth here.
You just feel likeeveryone has fallen into some safe arms.
So thank you for helping that move on.
And so today you're doing that and you'realso doing some other important work.
So tell us a little bit about that.Two of you.
(02:59):
So I'm currently interningas well at the office of the district 57,
which is South Central, downtown L.A.,which is here.
And parts of Watts big district. Yes.
It's huge.
Almost impossible to get all of it.
Yeah, and to try and figure outhow to wrangle that, I don't know.
(03:20):
And so I'm, I'm, I'mcurrently affiliate on
for the reentry partof of of our district.
I'm starting itI'm, you know, getting myself
in more involvedand entrenched in that because,
you know, I'm formerly incarceratedand I know the struggles
that I went through and many more behindme are going through the same thing.
(03:41):
So is your work in this districtto help people who may have come
from similar situations? Oh, yes.
And not just that, you know, just tohelp out homeless, the homelessness and.
AC. And mental health,you know, that's that's my whole mission.
That's my whole purpose inlife is just to give back, to give back
and to help others.
I found my purpose,but God has provided all the resources
(04:05):
and opportunitiesfor me to reach that purpose.
And I wholeheartedly believe that because
by me giving my will to God.
I've been blessed with abundance.
And I'm, you know, I'm I'm happy today.
I have self-respect today.What a blessing.
Yeah, it doesn't happenwithout without my higher power.
And something insideyou had to make a big shift.
(04:27):
Yes. Yes.
And speaking of that big shift, you know,it didn't start
the day that I got out of prison.
It started years before that.
I couldn't get past a lot of the trauma,
you know, defects that I had without
the resources that the prison systemstarted to provide for me.
(04:47):
And, you know, by megoing to classes, understanding myself,
understanding, you know, what I did,why I did what I did.
Don't hear many storiesabout people in your position
taking advantage of those programsin a good way.
Really?
And all that, Ithe prison system gets a bad rap
all the timeand I'm sure a lot of it is deserved.
(05:09):
But do people participate
in a meaningful way in these programs,or were you a rarity?
No. There's so many people in therethat I'm not going to see deserve
a second chance, because I don't knowif we deserve anything, right?
Because it's given by God's grace.
But there's so many people in therethat are suffering from traumas,
and we act on those traumas.
And, you know, I'ma big believer in restorative justice.
(05:32):
I don't have the the opportunityto establish
my accountability for what I've done.
Then I'm still suffering.
I'm still in pain.
I'm still resentful, angry and all that.
But if I start, if Iif I get a guide or or someone who's
who was willing to sit with meand guide me through and teach me
why I do what I do, where all comes from,then it opens the door
(05:56):
for for empathy, love, accountability.
So when you're given that gift,when someone sees you, hears you, and lets
you have your space without judgment,it makes you.
It makes it easierfor you to act in kind. Yes.
And then especially with the relatability,if I see one of my peers
change before my eyesand and for the better,
(06:19):
then it gives me hopethat if he can do it, then why can't I?
Right.
And now people are going to look at. Youand that's my hope.
I hope so too.
That people seethat I'm just like everybody else.
I'm not unique.
You know, this isn't you know, I'mnot, like, the smartest guy in the world.
However,I do everything through love, through,
you know, throughJesus's only commandment.
(06:42):
Love everyone like I love himor like he loves me.
Well, and I think, unfortunately,that operating from a place of love is
from truelove is a little bit hard to come by.
But, you know, we needpeople like you who can show us that.
So could you share with ussome about some of your upbringing
and what life was like, and what was lifelike at home when you were a kid?
(07:07):
Well, life at home was very tumultuous,to say the least for me.
Were you in Los Angeles? Yes.
We traveled a lot.
You know, I came from El Salvadorat three years old, from El Salvador.
We came to Los Angeles,
and I always had a disconnectwith my mother from the very beginning.
You know, my my early years were whereI was raised with my grandmother.
(07:28):
And so my grandmother was my mother.
So my mom came to, the United Statesfleeing the war as a refugee.
Did she come with you? Or before, you.
Know, she she came before me.
And so, you know, this way, I.
You connected with your grandmother.
My grandma was my mom. Sure.
And so when my mother came and tookme, it was I didn't understand.
(07:50):
So all all I thought was
I'm getting taken away from my mother,from this strange lady.
Right.
And that must be a not too uncommonscenario.
No, of course not.Because that's what happens.
The adults come and establish themselves.
Sure.
Then once that's accomplished,they bring the children.
I was never able to connect with my motherbased on my mother's traumas.
(08:12):
She wasn't able to connect either.
And so we all we've always had thistension between us.
Even today,
unfortunately.
And where was your dad during all of this?
I don't know who he is.
I don't know his name.
I don't even know anything about him.
And sadly, that's not uncommon either.
Sadly. Yeah.
(08:33):
So based on that, like,you know, and early traumas.
Mostly with my mother.
Beatings, feeling emasculated,mentally, physically, emotionally.
It was.It was tumultuous. And traumatizing.
And was it the two of youor were you with you?
I was with siblings.
Yeah.
We had we have nine in total in my family.
(08:54):
Goodness.So all of you were living with your.
Mother and stepfather? Yes.
And your grandmother never came out?
Yes, eventually she did.Eventually she did.
I was always tense, in my house,and I was, you know,
I didn't feel comfort
or safety or or, you know, even love in my
(09:16):
limited wisdom,I believe that my mom didn't love me.
And so that created a resentment.
And as the years wore on,
I became angry, you know, standoffish.
In school,I would fight, I would be rebellious.
But I love schoolbecause school was my sanctuary.
School was where I would be allowedto be away from, from home.
(09:41):
I don't know if anyone can relate, but
going home from school, I was terrified.
It was it was very terrifying to me.
Because you didn't know what to expect,or you knew that
what you would expect would come true,and it wasn't a good thing.
It's like being confronted by a bear.
You don't know if the bearis going to walk away today, or
(10:03):
if it's going to attack you,or you just waiting to see
what's going to happenand see if the bear's going to attack.
And did your other siblingsfeel the same way?
Do you think.
They felt the same way,but not in the to the extent that I did.
Even now, today, as we talk about that,my sister even tells me, you know,
it's skewed the language.
She said from the very beginning,you were screwed. Up.
(10:24):
From the very beginning.
You cut the brunt of all of it. Oh, gosh.
And where did you fall in the lineup?
I was right in the middle.
You were.
I was right in the middle.Yeah. Probably not the best place to be.
Being full in so many ways.
Yeah.
And so during my teenage years,that's when I exploded.
That's when everything hit full circle.
(10:46):
When I was before prison.
How did that present itself?
Through the gangs?
I went out.
It's that push pull, thing,you know, pushed out of the house
and pulled into the game.
And what did the gang offerthat you couldn't get at home?
They provided comfort.
They provided safety,they provided security.
I mean, as twisted as it sounds,I believed that
(11:08):
what I was getting from the gangwas everything that I wanted in my life.
Nobody had ever told me thatwhatever you do will be here for you.
Whatever you do, we.
We will have your back.
We will take care of you.
And that was something foreign to methat was alien to me.
But that must have felt good.
(11:30):
I mean, it made me feel that I belonged.
And, you know, I had an identity now.
How old were you?
At that point, I was 13.
And is that an age where,
gangs are looking to initiateyoung people.
Even even younger?
I mean, when I was involved in all that,I would see kids
(11:51):
even younger than me11 years old. Ten years old.
And is it easy for those peoplethat are looking for gang members
to suss out who is a potential candidate,like you had eight brothers and sisters.
Were they also approached? No.
My my story is quite uniquebecause I was approached by my brother.
(12:12):
We were in Oakland, Oklahoma.
I left that part out, butsomething had happened to my stepfather
when we were living in Long Beach.
I think he got, mugged or something.
And so after that,they took us out to Oklahoma.
Oh, and in Oklahoma, that'swhen like, you know, that's when all this,
all the beating starting, all the traumaand all that between me, my mother
(12:35):
and my brother got caught up in something
at home and got kicked out of the house,came to California.
And the little young guysthat I used to know from California,
they all grew upand they all became gang members.
And so my brother came back to Oklahomaand told me about
my old friends,and they're like, in Houston.
He told me the gang and they all miss you.
(12:59):
They want to talk to you.
There are old friends.
So there was a positive undertone to this.
Oh of course.
That was something that, you know,pushed me towards, not the gang,
because I had really no conceptionof what gangs were.
Being that I was, in school in Oklahoma,learning things in Oklahoma.
Gangs to me were on TV.
(13:21):
And so but when he came in and, you know,painted that picture of the homies,
the friends and the partiesand the good times and,
you know, that was very, very intriguing.
Intriguing. There you go.
It was very intriguing to me.
And none of the scary stuff. No.
It was shared. Fun.
And to be quite honest, it was fun
(13:41):
when I ran away from home, at 13,I ran away
because I had it,and I hitchhiked from Oklahoma to.
You did? Yeah. Twice. Wow.
And so when I,when I came to to Los Angeles,
I had all these people that were
I was fully embraced and I felt free.
(14:02):
I felt I'm an old man now.
I could do whatever I want,and I'm, you know, I'm not under anybody's
thumb anymore. And I felt free.
And so was it then.
Fun and simpleand loads of friendship for a while.
And then you sort of get this other stuffcoming to you. Yes.
(14:25):
The first fond parties I would startto see, you know, the violence.
And I would start to see the drug use,the drugs selling because, you know,
back in the time when I was growing up,the crack epidemic was going crazy.
Were the gang members also users?
Oh, yes. Yes, yes,I see that all the time.
And where were theysomehow able to keep it under control?
(14:48):
Because I would imagine.
Would once you start to become addicted,then you become a problem for the gang.
Erratic. And.
Yes. No. Some would,but for the most part,
we would sell the drugsmore than anything.
But I would see some of
some of the guys, you know, fall into itreally, really heavily.
So. So was it that.
(15:09):
Okay, we brought you into our family.
It's all great.
We've got your back.
Now, here'ssome things you need to do for us.
In my case, it wasn't necessarilysomething that they asked me to do.
It was something that I was willing to do,I see.
And that because experiencing no love,no compassion
and no tenderness,no kernel safety, that any of that.
(15:31):
So experiencing all
of it in one, one, one,you know, one shot.
I wanted to prove to themthat I was worthy.
Then I was willing to do whatever toto keep that love.
And they knew that.
And they knew that for the guys, theyof course, had, you know, bad intentions.
(15:52):
Negative.
But they were in the same boat that I wasthey were willing to do
the same thing that I was becausethey wanted the same thing that I did.
So I can't sit here and and tell you that
they wanted all thisbecause they were evil,
or they were willing to do X, Y, and Zbecause that was what they wanted.
(16:12):
It was they did thatbecause of what we were taught,
how we were indoctrinated and programed.
But at the deepest levelis which we want to love.
We wanted towe wanted comfort. Kind of amazing.
So in in general,that's how a gang becomes a gang.
It's you pull on the heartstringsand bring these people
in, and they supposedly have this lovethat they've never had before.
(16:35):
And it's all those things that you thinklove is obviously not love,
but nobody in the gang is better or worse
than the next personbecause you sort of all were lost.
Yeah, well, we were all lost and
and that's what I want people to, to knowgang members or whoever.
We don't do thingsjust because we're evil.
(16:56):
We do things based on a trauma, based on
how wegrew up and our beliefs became work.
If I believe, if I keep telling myselfthat, you know, I have to do this,
I have to do this,because if I don't, this happens,
then eventually I'm going to do itbecause that becomes my belief
and there's nobody there to arrest itor bring it back.
(17:19):
No, you have a choice.
You can do something else to get that.
And I think that most of us walk throughlife not realizing there's a choice.
There's a choice.
We think the life we're livingis the life we're living forever.
And we have to stop thatbecause we're going down the drain.
I mean, humanity at largewe're doing ourselves in
because we're not looking inwardand finding that we are valuable.
(17:45):
We're not looking to each otherto find the best
in each other,and we're not helping each other out.
I believe that in my instance,I feel powerless.
I felt that I hadI had no control over myself.
So by me not having any of that, I'mlooking outward
to getting I'm destroying lifewhile I'm doing it.
And of course, yes, I feel powerfulwhen I, you know, shoot somebody
(18:08):
or when I rob somebody or when I dowhatever x, y, and z, I feel powerful,
but for a split secondand then it goes away.
And then is there a feelingthat replaces that or nothing?
Is it a feeling of repulsionor just vacuous after.
Yes, after the fact? Yes. But
(18:29):
during I've accomplished
something and I feel powerful that
I had this person cowering beneath mebecause I took something from him,
or I made him beg for his lifeor whatever.
Whatever the case that goes away, though,the day after,
you know,I still feel the same way as I did before.
And so I go and do it againbecause I'm looking for that.
(18:51):
Interesting.
It's it's almost like an addiction.
Like an. Addiction.
And that's what that's what it is.That's exactly what it is.
Because I'm looking for comfort and I'mand I'm finding it
in this word, beliefthat I have it by me doing this.
I'm I'm getting it.
But there's another way to feel powerfuland and keep that power.
And I believe I've come to experiencegiving people power makes me powerful.
(19:17):
You're giving people love,makes me love myself even more.
And so, you know, I've come to find outand recognize that I had it all wrong.
I had it all wrong.
It's not about taking anythingfrom anybody.
It's about the moreI give, the more that I get.
Because he gives me everythingI need by me giving everything of me
(19:38):
to others, get everything I need.
You just become more,more and more filled with love.
It's interesting that somehow youyou felt a moment of gratification
when these big scary things were happeningthat you were in charge of
and they were harming someone else.
Reminds me of what you spokeabout, of your mom in that,
(19:59):
you know,you were always afraid to go home.
You never knew what to expect, but your
your momwas probably in a similar position.
You know, applying pressure on youand taking out whatever
she was missing or whateverher trauma was on you.
And then you now also carry that same
(20:21):
reactivity, that
same sort of behavior,because that's what you knew.
And going to my mother,I would do a lot of what I was doing,
like a lot of the,you know, negative things
that that I was doing,the choices that I was making,
I was doing those and blaming herbecause I was in that resentment.
Sure, if you hadn't done this.
(20:41):
I wouldn't have done this. Yeah.
And and it didn't change
until I first learnedforgiveness for myself.
And once I learned to forgive myself,I started to think about her.
And then I was able to separatewhat happened
with how I felt
when it happened and when I separated,that I was able to build that.
(21:04):
The empathy and the compassion for herbecause she I don't know
what she went through as a child,but I know she went through a lot.
Yes, she she had her own traumas to dealwith in whatever way she could. Yes.
And however she knew how to deal with mebeing rebellious,
being angry all the time, and violent.
(21:25):
She knew how to deal with methe way that she grew up.
Right?
All that she knew.
And that's all that she knew and and that.
And through that empathy, I'm able to havecompassion for her and forgive her.
I now am accountable for my actions.
It's not her fault that if I do X, y, z,
it's not her fault that I react.
(21:46):
It's my actionsand I'm accountable for those right?
When you figure outhow to stop holding on to all that
junk, that trash,
that trauma, and you,you let it go from who you are,
you release it, then you are who you are.
You're not carrying that stuff, andyou don't have to blame anybody for it.
(22:07):
I'm not a. Victim. Yeah, yeah.
So if this is hard to talk about,then just tell me.
But how did you
sort of spiral out of control to the placewhere you ended up in prison?
What were a couple of the first bad thingsthat you were asked to do,
and how did you get to the placewhere you finally ended up in prison?
(22:29):
Was this started with with a gun?
My own brother, you know,
you know, I was already involved,heavily involved in the gangs.
I was selling drugs,but it didn't turn violent until,
my brother
handed me a gun, and he told me there's
going to be somebody coming,and he's going to want to buy some drugs.
(22:52):
He has money.
So all you do is point the gun at him.
You know, don't shoot it.
Just point the gun at him
and he's going to give us the money,and I'll be still scared.
But me willing to, you know, show
all of them that I, you know,I was down for the hood and,
you know, willing to to,you know, put in work
or I said, okay, for sure.
(23:13):
I got the gun and my brother'shere he comes.
Is it okay?
And why, in this instance,was a gun required or fear factor?
Yes. For the fear,just simply because we wanted his money.
And the easiest way to get it was through.
Yeah. The power of a gun.
As he approached
approached us and I pulled out the gunand I didn't have to say anything.
(23:36):
He just threw the money and ran.
And so that made me feel powerful.
That was like, oh.
I am in. Charge right here.
Yeah.
Once I got introduced to that,there was no going back.
There was.
I felt so much controland I felt on top of the world.
And then.
Did you have a gun with youall of the time? Yes.
Oh, yes. Yes.
The one time that I didn't have a gun wasthe night that, my brother had got shot.
(24:00):
I was angry at myselfthat that couldn't protect him.
And I believe that he had got murdered.
And so in all that I was, you know,I was angry.
I was out of my my senses.
So he did not die.
He did not die.
But at that moment,I, I believe that he did.
Yeah.
And so that made the gun more powerful.
(24:20):
Oh yes.
I went to get it and went lookingfor, for,
you know, for the rivaland found him and shot him till he died.
And I shot him.
So I killed him. Yes.
And I have to live with that.
I have to live with that.
And and at that time, how old were you.
A 16.
How old was your brother. 18.
(24:41):
Such children. Yes, yes.
After you murdered that young manwho was what.
He was 16, 17 himself.
He was 18.
Was a young man as well.
Was it not longafter that you were discovered? Yes.
It was like.
But a week or two.I didn't feel remorseful.
I didn't feel bad about what I did.
(25:02):
I just feel bad about getting cut.
I feel bad that my life was over and. But.
And so this is this is how
how last
I was,I didn't really care that I was arrested
because my life was.
I felt hopeless anyways.
So when I got arrested,it felt was better than being at home.
(25:24):
Yeah. My gosh.
And in a way,you would still have similar comrades.
Exactly. Still free.
And so it really didn't matterbased on that.
You know, I was a kid, I didn't, you know,
my consequential thinkingwasn't as developed.
Sure.
And so I was just thinking about tomorrow,and tomorrow's
(25:45):
better than being home, betterbeing over there.
And they opened the doorfor me to duel. And ever.
I wanted to be as violentas I wanted to be.
As as, you know, as hurtful and harmful.
Do you mean before you were in prisonor both?
Both. Actually both.
But after it was like,I got worse because these are now people
(26:06):
who are violent
or scarywho are teaching me about other things.
Did you get worse becauseyou really needed to protect yourself,
and so you had to appear to beor become a big scary guy?
Yes. Well, actually,I'm not a big scary guy.
I'm a little guy.
And so and and I'm not Mexican.
(26:29):
So being that I'm from, you know,another race, I guess you could call it.
And I'm not a big guy.
You were already at a loss.
I had a loss. So I had to overcompensate.
And so everybody will have to be this.
And I have to do thisso you don't mess with me.
(26:49):
And so, like,you know, the first month, in prison,
know, in a regular prison yard,I was already in prison.
In in jail, in jail.
I, I went to the whole for for violenceagainst another individual.
This was in 1997.
And the ball started, started rolling.
After that,I got progressively worse and worse.
(27:10):
Kind of got myself caught up in,in the prison politics and gangs in there.
And, and I want to talk about that.
But what what was the conviction processlike?
You they they found you.
You were put in jail right away.
Did you have a proper trial?
Oh, everything was proper.
Everything from the beginning.
They got it right.
(27:31):
I was like, with a little discrepancies,but all in all, they got it right.
But, you know, me being callous, menot caring about anybody else and all.
Your honor, it wasn't me. I didn't do it.
I didn't have the gutsto stand up and own up to it.
Knowing their families,their sufferings and still, you know,
not thinking backbecause I hurt them so bad so much.
(27:53):
It's like an eternal painthat that I created for this family.
And what what was your sentence.
About 15 years to life?
Originally it was 25 years to life,but I appealed.
And based on, a discrepancy in the lastday, it was lowered down to 15.
And when it's 15 years to life,is it likely 15 years now?
(28:16):
It's likely life. Really?
Yes. Because, you know,through the governors of the past,
they were not letting anyonego to board to the board of prison terms.
Were not letting peoplego to give full, accountability.
There were opportunities
because I saw, you know, very few,but I saw people going home.
But it was they went far and beyondwhatever it was required.
(28:40):
You know, us lifers, we didn't have that.
We didn't have thethe necessary schooling, the resources.
We didn't have classes.We didn't have any of that.
So that was otherworldly.
That can happen to that person,but never to me. Yes.
Because based on, you know, Bill Clinton'stough on
crime bill'sthe crack epidemic of Pete Wilson's,
(29:01):
three strikes, you know,
all these laws that open the doorfor massacres, creation.
You know, the prison systemwas getting over, overran with inmates.
And so they were picking and choosingwho to give this class
the classes to, who to give this work,who to give these opportunities to.
Me, being a lifer, the attitude was,well, he's not he's no good anyways.
(29:24):
There's no point intrying to rehabilitate.
Just keep him in the cell and,you know, give him his TV
and keep him as comfortable as we canbecause he's going to die in here anyways.
So then for the first many years,you were,
you figured out how to adaptto where you were. Yes.
Become more callous, more. Callous.
(29:45):
More violent.
Someone that people would fear.
And you became, as you just mentioned, in
Vail,in involved in the politics of the prison.
And what is that?
All the prison politics are rules
or an or a group of peoplewho established these rules prisoners.
Prisoners.
And we follow these rules
(30:07):
to keep ourselves safe
from other prisoners.
Right.
And usually it's people of our own race.
White stick to the whites, Spanishwith the Hispanics, blacks to the blacks.
So that's a rule. Yes.
And what happensif you cross over the line.
Bad things.
(30:28):
Very very bad things.
The riots.You know I lost my eye in a riot.
There's an established rule
that you stick to your own
and by sticking to your own,you're relatively safe.
And is there thenin these individual groups, a hierarchy,
a government of sorts? Yes.
(30:48):
In any group,you know, in any group, even caveman days,
there was a hierarchy, you know,so that's just that's just, you know,
inherent in human beings,you know, we want to follow someone
who's going to lead us in the right way,you know, and based on our indoctrination,
based on our programing,based on our warped beliefs,
(31:10):
the more violentthe individual, the more respect he gets.
And so those arethe people will follow, you know.
And is that respect coming from fear?
Is it real respect? Is it?
I've got to figure out how to be likethis guy as violent as he is,
because that's the only wayI'm going to survive.
That's clearly what it is. It's not love.
(31:30):
We call it love, but it's not love.
It's fear, and it's our fear basedeverything that we're doing,
there's fear based.
Because if I don't do something,this is going to happen to me.
If I don't participate in a riot,this is going to happen to me.
You can't just stand back. Say,count me out.
There's no way, especially
(31:50):
in, in, yards
or in prison yardsthat are, you know, overrun with gangs.
It's it's
basically we don't have our own voice.
It's a voice of the collective.
If the collective says we're goingto do this and we're going to do this,
you know, the one voice that says no isgoing to get overridden by the collective.
(32:12):
So was there some comfort to be found in
just working within the system,within the politics?
Could you get some rest
once you knew that you were only on boardto follow the rules? Yes.
And I'm taking extremes because youin prison, you make it what it is.
(32:33):
You know, I went in and I went in violent.
So I made prison violent for myself.
But I didn't have to.
I had a choice.
I had a choice to, you know, sit back
and not involve myself,which a lot of people do.
How do they operate when they fallout of this system of rules?
(32:54):
They go to different yards.
They, you know,they ask the officers, you know,
I don't want to be in this environment.
Please take me out of this environment.
There's different yards for that.
You know, when I started my term,
there was there weren't opportunitieslike that.
You know, everybody went to that yard.
And Bullock.
I see.
But, you know, as as the years wore on,
(33:15):
the prison systemwanted to establish yards
where people do have a choiceto leave the gangs and, and go
and not be gang, a gang member or notparticipate in any wrongdoing
and focus on going home and,you know, the personal growth.
So there were opportunities for that.
But me being young,
(33:38):
being involved in all this,you know, madness.
I was too consumedwith what people thought of me.
If I was to go to a different yardto do anything but stay.
I see that would have shownthat you were weak or coward or.
Yeah, we're taught to believe.
And you were amongst a group of peoplewho obviously felt the same way.
(34:00):
Exactly. So?
So I took comfort in that.
I took comfort. Well, at least I would.
Solid people. And
it didn't change
until I started seeing guys go to group,go to
these resourcesthat were available to lifers
like me, people like,you know, that, that are murderers.
(34:21):
So what happened to give you a view?
What happened in your mind
or in your in your set of feelings to say,hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I don't have to be this 100%
violent, closed up guy.
I'm interpreting that as, You're asking me
(34:43):
for my moment or for my the moment of.
Yeah, generalization.
What I did,because it seems like a giant shift. Yes.
It's a paradigm shift. Right.
If you will.
What happened was I was in a visit.
I was in visit with this young lady.
She came to visit me.
We had become real good friends,and her husband had passed away.
(35:04):
But she never wanted to tell mehow her husband died.
And so finally we were talkingand she brought her son.
And her son has autism.
And so we're talkingand and I asked her, like, you know,
tell me about your your late husband
because you're always speaking of themand you don't speak highly of them.
(35:24):
And I'm curious what happens.
And so she's said, okay,
okay, I could talk, I can tell you.
And she's telling me the storyof how her husband got murdered,
a walk up, gang related shootingthat took his life.
And as she's telling me, this,
I'm seeing her change from this
beautiful young lady to this
(35:47):
sad, lonely woman
with a child that she's burdened with.
That right there.
Like you hate me so muchbecause I saw my victim's mother
that moment, and I was like, wow,this is what I did.
This is thethe evil that I created in this world.
(36:09):
And that touched me,you know, like, it changed me.
I can't imagine just hearing you saythat is heartbreaking.
And so I went backto, to the cell and stayed with me.
And so
that, that, that that day, you know,I was like, okay, I wasn't very religious,
(36:29):
but I knew God existed because he hadgotten me into so many, so many things.
I so I prayed, so, God, you know,I can't do this no more.
I can't I can't do this.
I did, you know, and this lady,
she didn't deserve that.
And Victor's mom didn't deserve thatbecause that's my victim.
You know, Victor Medina, I want, I want,I want to honor him.
(36:53):
Thank you.
And, yes, I, I I, I couldn'tdo it anymore.
And so things started to change inside mewhen I, you know, when
I'd go out to the yard and I'd see peoplegetting hurt, you know, stabbed.
And I want to see the same anymore.
Whereas before I was, you.Well, you messed up. Oh.
Well, now I've seen,
(37:15):
man, his mom.
What was going to happen when they toldhis mom that her son almost got murdered
or got murdered, or was his sistergoing to feel how his wife does?
You have any kids?
I was starting to think about thethe repercussions
of, you know, what's going on.
Feelings.
Feelings that started pulling on me and
(37:36):
it got to whereI don't even want to see that anymore.
I don't want to know about that anymore,
because I don't want to be a part of thatanymore.
It's it's too hard for me.
Is just. It's just too.
I just got tired.
I got tired of all of it.
Weren't you afraid of undoing what you hadbecome in that?
Would you be hurt?
(37:57):
No. Because by thenI was already exhausted.
By thenI was already to the point where it's.
I'd ratherbe dead than be involved in this.
So being hurt, it's is part.
Of the matter to this part of me.Come after me.
But I'm not doing this.
And so I went and I went, I went tothe yard and and I talked to the guys.
(38:18):
I told them the problem.
And this was like about about a yearafter that incident with wouldn't visit.
So it took a while.It took, you know, wasn't as spontaneous.
But that moment that momentwhere, where I saw that and I connected it
and internalized it isI know that's the moment that I changed
and was the momentthat I didn't want this.
(38:40):
It took a while for me to finally,you know,
drum up the courageto go out to the yard and,
and talk to the guysand tell them, don't count on me, bro.
Don't count on me.I don't want to do this anymore.
I'm not going to do this anymore.
And they were okay with it.
Mr.. Prizing me. There was. There's this.You know what?
That's fine. Respect it.
(39:01):
Just don't count on us.
If something happens to you.
You're on your. Own.Either. You're on your own.
And I was okay with that.
I was okay with that because
I didn't want to be violent anymore.
Did this meanthen that you moved to another yard? Yes.
And then I went.
I voluntarily went to the officeafter afterwards.
(39:21):
And I told the officers,I don't want to be part of this anymore.
I'm ready to change myself in my life,
and I don'tI don't want to be a part of this.
And so, yeah,I went to another yard where, where there
there were gangs,but I wasn't part of anything anymore.
And it was acceptable there. Yes.
To not be part of any of that.
And so I was free,you know, I was free of that.
(39:45):
And so since I was free of that now,it left
open me to focus on me
and not worry about anybody else, notbecause I wasn't going to be in any danger
if I went to churchor if I went to, a program or anything.
So it was more about,how am I going to fix what I broke.
(40:09):
And I thought it was going to be helpingothers, right.
Like doing good for others.
But it didn't start like that.
It started with fixing me a fix.
Was broken in here, and the groups
that I was going to were pretty profound.
But let me backtrack a little bit, because
I didn't go to the groupsoriginally to change.
(40:31):
I saw my ticket home because I saw guysgoing home through these groups.
The groups that, were there were to me,there were just people talking
about their their feelings.
And you didn't maybe
see that there were different typesof people in these groups, people who were
really changingbecause of their involvement versus people
(40:54):
who are just playing along, playing along.
And you thought,all I have to do is show up and.
And I'm out.
But somehow, somewhere along the line,when you're at the other end,
it can be discerned whether you werereally in it or on the sidelines.
And at first I was on the sidelines.
At first I was,but then I started hearing testimonies.
(41:18):
I started hearing people talk,and I started hearing my story.
I started hearing myselfin what these people were saying.
And I started to really think,well, maybe,
maybe I'm not as different,maybe I'm not as unique,
and maybe there is hope for me to,in hearing these stories.
Because what?
(41:39):
This guy was just as violent or this guy,he was just
this is as much of a liar as I was.
I washe was more than a manipulator than I am.
But now look at him.
He's actually I can actually see him outin the yard helping people,
being friendly.
And so I'm thinking, man,if he could do it,
maybe I'm not as as lost as I thoughtI was.
(42:01):
And so, you know, I would talk to himor talk to other guys and,
and the profound insightthat they had, it blew my mind.
And I was
imam I was I would never,
never get to where they're at,but at least I'm going to be decent.
And that's what I want to do.
I want to be a decent human being,going to the to the groups.
(42:23):
And that gave me a little bit more courageto speak up, to talk
about me, to talk about my,you know, my traumas.
And you didn't have the pressure anymoreof having to protect yourself.
Exactly. First and foremost,
from the very beginning,when you were at home as a little kid.
He's actually.
All the way up.
So, you know, I was carrying all that.
That's a big deal to let go of.
(42:44):
Really. Yes.
To to say, I'm going to walk this walk
and I'm not going to be thinking,number one, about how do I protect myself.
Or who's watching me. Or. Yeah.
And then you can open all these doors
because that was your full timejob, right?
Really.
Safety.
(43:05):
Protecting myself. Yeah.
Defending myself against what?
It whatever you thought it would be.
Or that I thought and and come to find outit was it was.
He was me all along.
If people didn't care about me,they were worried about themselves.
But I'm.
I was so caught up in what other peoplethought that I forgot about what I thought
about me, I forgot about I forgot mein the process now was different.
(43:29):
I was now focused on me
and not caring about what they thinkbecause I'm important, I matter.
And if I don't matter to anyone,I matter to myself.
And so they, you know,that's that self-love that I was
developing for myself was empowering.
Yeah. You want more.
I want more. And not only do I want more,I want to give it away.
Yeah, well, so you you saw
(43:51):
these people who had been in positionsmuch like you're yours.
And now they were trading that infor going out in the yard
and helping someone who needed help,feeling some amount
of a different kind of empowermentfrom that.
Oh my. God.
And and when I started doing that.
And it's funnybecause when I went to board,
(44:14):
the commissioner asked when he said,
you know, there's people herethat come and say your name.
Say who? You know that you helped him.
What do you get from that?
And and I told him, you know, at firstI thought I was going to get pride
because, you know, yeah, I'mhelping people look at me, but.
Oh, they actually got more humbled.
(44:35):
I actually felt more, more humble.
And knowing that, you know, I'mhelping to enrich somebody's life
through my compassionand through my friend, my friendliness.
It's humbling, you know, it's it makes mewant to do more, you know, because
I'm giving instead of taking.
(44:57):
And even if you were doing it fora prideful reason, you know, look at me.
I'm helping these people.
I mean, that's not really love.
And I believe that there's healthy prideand this journal unhealthy.
You should feel pridefor all that you're doing.
Of course, but it's not the motivator.
Of course not.
You know, the motivator for me is love.
And I think I started out with Jesusas his one and only commandment.
(45:20):
Love others like he loves meand I mean, if I
if I do that, I can't go wrong.
He loves meeven though I killed another individual.
He loves me even though I sold drugs.
He loves me even though I didall these crazy things and harmful things.
Through all that, he still loves me.
(45:42):
And if he has that amount of love for me,then I know I'm capable.
Have that amount of love for anybody,doesn't matter who.
And it is as homeboys says,
you are not your trauma,
you are not the bad acts.
(46:02):
Those are not you.
We're not defined by our acts.
I'm not defined by what I did now.
I define myself by what I'm doing today.
Forward.
That's how I define myself.
Because that's coming from love.
Is coming from love.
And if if it's not from love,then I don't want it.
I don't want to help somebody becauseI'm going to get something in return.
(46:27):
You can feel the difference. Yes. Right.
And when I do help somebody elsewalk away, I don't do it
because the right thing to do,I do it because it makes me happy.
Yeah. Because it fulfills me.
And that's all I've ever wanted.
And that'swhat we're supposed to be doing as humans
who have these feelings,who know about love.
(46:48):
We are community.
Yeah, we're just a big community,and we need each other.
And, you know, the the,the people out there that are doing,
you know, committing crime or doing badacts, they do that based on the defects.
They do that because they're tryingto protect themselves, their traumas,
their hurts, their pains, their fears.
(47:08):
They do that because they want comfort,
but they're doing it,you know, you know, in a negative way.
They're going out into the worldwith the only tools they have.
The only tool they have.
And I'm I don't want to saythere are other tools that you can learn,
and there are other ways.
And we have choices regardless.
We have choices.
(47:30):
And so many of us, like I said earlier,we just
walk the path that we've always walked,not even thinking that there
is a fork in the roadand that you might actually
walk down that other path.
We just deal with cardswe were dealt because we're comfortable.
We are.
But that doesn't mean thatthat is who we really are.
(47:53):
We're just carrying all the weight thatwe've been given, and we don't have to.
We don't have to.
And underneath all of that is a worthy,
admirable little kernel of love.
And we all have it.
We all have it.
All capable of bringing that out.
(48:14):
This is we have to pull that onion.
We have to get through all of it.
So is that what you did in the processof getting yourself out of prison was
you learned enoughand you peeled away the onion, and when
you spoke to the people who were in chargeof making decisions on your behalf, it
finally came from a place
of absolute honesty. Yes.
(48:36):
And they obviously could seethat you had become
what you were describing, you had become,and that you weren't just playing a game.
They know that's their livelihood.
You know they get paid to do this.
But not only do they getpaid to do this, it's
their it's their obligationto to protect society from.
Sure. Right.
(48:57):
And so they, they, they'rewell versed on on who's radio who isn't.
And were you were you surprisedwhen your time finally came.
How many triesdid you make at this. Eight tries.
Oh eight tries. Over the course of years.
Ago, over a course of, 27 years.
26 years.
(49:17):
How long were you in prison?
30 years and nine months.
My goodness.
Yeah. So.
So when I went in this last time
and I, you know,I'm telling you this with all honesty,
it really didn't
matter to me if I was let go orif I was going to stay in there forever.
There's a differencebetween being liberated and being free.
I was free already,so it didn't matter where I was.
(49:38):
I was living decent anyways,
so didn't matter because when I die,
I know I'm going to die a decent manregardless of where I'm at.
What a treasure.
And it is, you know, carrythat and I protect it
every day through through my works,every day.
If the board was to say, well, you know,we don't believe it, right?
Okay. That's fine.
(49:59):
That's your opinion. And I respect it.
And so you were going to stop tryingafter that? No.
I mean, of course I was,I was going to keep trying, but.
It didn't matter.
It didn't matter.
And how long have you been liberated?
Oh, a year and June 25th of 2024was the day that I got free deliberated.
And so it's now June.
(50:21):
July, August, September.
Do you still wake up and think.
Wow, yes,yes I do, and I never want to lose that.
I never want to lose it.
Was the world a surprising place?
It was more scary than anything.
It was so big.
Everything is so fast.
Things are so different out here.
(50:42):
There's more color
and there's just blue and gray.
Interesting.
And here, you know, around the world, it'slike I'm actually seeing colors.
I never thought about that.
And sounds and smells.
And the first time, the
a rose petal,you know, I used to draw roses.
(51:02):
And when I saw the actual roseand the drawing that I would draw
and I would compare them as,oh, I got it right,
or I got this littleI got this little fold.
Oh, yeah, I got, I got that right too.
And, and now and I'm, I'mactually holding one and touching ones.
Things are so precious.
30 years of not being ableto touch the bark of a tree.
(51:26):
I was touching it.
And, you know, not an officer walks by me
and automatically put my hand backlike I was doing something wrong
when I as I was touching it,I was not like in all like.
And I'm actually touching a tree.
We all need a more a little more of that.
Oh man. Yes we do.
So now isdid you go directly to home, boys?
(51:50):
Did you have friends or loved ones to.
No I didn't, I had no one a week priorto to getting out.
You know, I'm just talking to God.
You know, I was I was thinking, you know,
I'm free.
I havemy purpose, and my purpose is helping
others and really, really engagingin someone else's, freedom like mine.
(52:11):
But I had no idea of how I was goingto accomplish that.
And so in my conversation, I told them,this is your will.
Now I'm giving this to youbecause mine was it was garbage.
I ran, I ran into the dirtI was no good at.
Don't look to me for making the decision.
(52:31):
I was no good at driving.
You know,the car is all mangled and destroyed.
I can't do this no more. I'm going to.
I need you, you know.
Teach me and I will obey you, I will obey.
And I told them, you know, butI want to help people, but I want to do
I want to do the oppositeof what I was doing instead of taking.
I want to give us, you know, life.
(52:52):
We have to come outand not have to put a strongly advised
or encouraged to go to,transitional housing for six months.
And throughout those six months, you know,the program is supposed to help us.
And so I'm there three months,three weeks, and I'm just in there,
you know, in my room doing nothing,wondering what I'm going to do today.
(53:13):
I get a knock on the door, and one ofmy friends tells me, there's this lady
that is running for state assembly,and we want you to help her.
Do you think that you can go and help her?
With her campaign? I was like,
There there you are.
I'm in as in I a yes for sure.
Community service.
(53:35):
That's what I want.
Yeah, yeah.
So he said, okay, here's the address.
I got lost, obviously
I jumped on the bus and.
I went.I don't know where, and I got lost.
I went late, but,
the girl that was the secretary,she said, oh, we're waiting.
We were waiting on you.
I'm going to take you to her.
So they she took me and there she was.
(53:57):
And and she said, okay.
You're the guy that, you know.
Crusades. Yeah.
Didn't ask me any questions.Didn't nothing.
She already knew that I was.
I was formerly incarcerated,but she didn't ask for words.
She just knew that I wanted to help.
And, that's.
I met her and her foster daughter that dayand gave me the script,
and we went and knocked on the first door,and the rest is history.
(54:19):
You know, we fought and I, you know, I, I
participated so much in community service.
I saw she opened my eyesto so many opportunities that
that I could have to dowhat my purpose is.
And there were so many instancesthat I know, I know it's God.
It's I know it, I know it.
(54:41):
He he provided so many opportunitiesfor me, put so many things in my way
that allow me to have a bigger platformto look.
Giving here, this this is God right here.
This is love right here.
Yeah. He put this together.
I had nothing to do with it.
Well, we need your voice.
No, I'm I'm I'm interning with withwith the district office.
(55:06):
I'm also a liaison for the reentry,part of the, the the the office.
Amazing.
And and clearly,you believed in in her goals
and what she wanted for her community.
And you could take part in that.
She's my my savior.
I don't see you two years later,but she is, This lady,
(55:27):
I have so much respect for herbecause she didn't.
She didn't care.
You know, she just saw some needed helpand jumped in.
And share her name.
Her name is de L'Homme.
Thank you so much, Shadi, for helping out.
And I with his path.
She opened so many doors for me.
(55:47):
She introduced me to so many peoplethat now are friends.
Really good friends,and I mean powerful people.
I could clearly say, you know,without God first, but without her
I'm not where I'm at.
And so for about seven months,
give or take, we were in the campaign,
we're fighting, we're doing whatwe're doing to help her win.
(56:10):
And she did.
She won.
Obviously.
We we won like, handily.
But then, you know, my my hard headedness,I said, okay, now we're going to work.
Now we're going to get down to it.
Do all these things.We said we were going to do this.
And and she's like, she said,yeah, we are, but you need to heal.
(56:32):
You need to really get
inside and change a lot of those beliefs
that you grew up withbecause you are worth it.
You are a good person.
And I was like,no, no, no, I, I'm okay, I'm okay.
Let's go. I want to work.
So now I know this programthat can help me
(56:53):
and can put me in,you know, the right, the right path.
But I'm going to go there three months
and that's it.
Then I want to come to work.
She said, okay, I'll give you that.
And this program was Homeboy Industries.
Three months was what I gave her.
Now I'm in therenine months and I'm still there.
And no reason to leave.
(57:14):
It's so beneficialand you're getting to help others there.
Oh my gosh.
I mean HomeboyIndustries is is a awesome program.
And I mean look what it's done for me.
I can say enough.
You know, I've learned a lot of business,you know, things things,
the little things.
You know, how to be reliable, howto be responsible, how to be accountable,
(57:36):
how to be disciplined every day.
Go to work, be on time.
It's given me that self-respect of,you know, to be professional.
And but most importantly,it's it's helped me heal it.
It's it's, you know, I have therapy there.
I have with mom, my therapist,and she's she's so great, you know.
Yeah.
And she helps me, you know, when I talkto her, she she gives me good insight.
(57:58):
It's kind of a great modelfor how we how our politics should work,
how our how we raise our children,how we talk about our families.
It's amazing.
I don't know how in that worldwith so many people,
so many people that they're helping,
that they stay balanced, like they do.
(58:18):
This because
everything comes from love and respect,because you walk through them doors.
You know, I'm not going to look at anybodydifferent because that person's me.
You know, that community is me.
And you feel thatwhen you walk through that. Right.
And and when the person walks through themdoors,
they're not going to feel intimidated.
They're not going to feelthey're being watched.
(58:40):
They're going to be welcomed.
It doesn't matterwho comes to those doors.
We need more of that. I felt, you know,
and so
I told her, three months,I'm going to give you three months.
And and now I'm, I'm there nine months.
I've been there nine months.
And, you know, I'mI'm I'm part of the intimate program.
And you're doing both things.
Yes. Yeah.
(59:00):
And it's exhausting because I'm.
I'm in school as well.
Oh, my gosh.
I have, I'm doing college of my collegework.
I'm so impressed.
And thank you for it.
But it's it's yeah, it's it's it's a lot.
But I take it on because at the end it's
going to be for the, my purpose.
(59:22):
It's going to befor what I want to do for others.
And I have to go through this.
This is you know, he put this in my pathand let's go doing it.
I gave my word and let's go.
The reason why I'm doing this podcastis because I want people to know
it can be done. And there are options.
We have choices and we have peoplewho are willing to help.
(59:45):
There are people out there who do love us,
and I say usbecause I'm part of the reentry community.
I'm part of my my community at large.
I'm a human being and I'm being helped
and look at the past that I have,and I'm still being helped.
I mean, look at allthat you've had to recover from.
(01:00:06):
It's pretty potentstuff. And and all of us,
well,
almostall of us have some amount of trauma.
Little giant, whatever it isthat we take with us through life.
And as we said before,we don't know how to step away from that
or how to make a change.
We're afraid of that shift.
Is your adviceto really look inside yourself
(01:00:31):
or look to others around youfor their loving support?
My my advice,my advice is this whatever trauma
that that you have, it's your trauma.
It doesn't matter what anybody'sjudgment is about that trauma.
It's your trauma and you're carrying it.
It could be, in my judgment,something small.
But to you, it's big to you,
(01:00:56):
it's a it's a boulderthat you're carrying.
It's molding who you are, who you.
Becoming and you become.
But no matter what that trauma
doesn't have to
be carried, doesn't have to have the powerthat it does.
The only way that you can get throughthis is through
having love for yourself, compassionfor yourself, care for yourself.
(01:01:16):
If you're able to do that,
you're not going to act on that trauma.
You're not going to be
what people say that you are.
You going to be who you were meant to be,and you were meant to be a child of God.
You were meant to be loved.
You were you were meant to havepeople surround you with care and
and compassion and everything that we are
(01:01:39):
inherently, we inherently have within us.
It's the human experience,human experience.
And that's my message.
You're meant to be loved.
You are meant to have love you.
You're meant to be part of us.
You're not excluded.
You're not different. No.
So everybody,there's a way to walk your best path.
(01:02:01):
And sometimes it's hardto figure out what that is
or even know that it exists,but it exists.
And listen to that. And night.
An amazing story to tell us.
And you shared so muchthat I'm sure was hard to share.
And we really appreciate it.
Really appreciate it.
And thank you.
And thank you for doing all the good workthat you do.
(01:02:23):
And thank you so much for having me.
I am so honored and humbled that.
We're we're so happy that you're here.
Thank you.And keep on listening and watching.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Hello,
I'm Cynthia Marksand I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis
Foundation, established by my latehusband, Doctor Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
Adonai Melendez is in the studio today.
He is currently a traineewith Homeboy Industries
(00:24):
and working to becomefully reintegrated back into society.
I bet you're curious.
Adonai has bravely and wholeheartedly
offeredto share his fascinating story with us.
He and I hope that you,our listeners, will be absolutely moved
by his transformationfrom a life of pain and fear and anger.
(00:47):
And that's putting it mildlyto one of empathy, compassion and love.
If this man found a wayto make giant leaps for the better,
then the rest of us can too.
So let's hear what he has to say.
Welcome. Hello. Thank you.
Thank you for being here.
This is really a treasure, and I can'twait to hear what you have to say.
(01:11):
And I have some questionshere, and I may stick to them,
and I may go off track,but start with where you are now.
You're at Homeboy Industries,
and just fill us in a little bitabout what Homeboy Industries is.
I am in Hollywood Industries. I'ma trainee.
Homeboy industries is an organizationthat was founded by Father Greg Boyle.
And Homeboy Industries isis an organization that helps.
(01:35):
Ex-gang members primarily for resourcesand the other things that formerly
incarcerated folks like myself, are inneed of, be it funds, programing.
Education. Education.
It's a wraparound programthat gives us the opportunity
to reintegrate back into society,not just have, positive interactions
(01:57):
with people, but also establish ourselveswith careers and, and,
you know,just be fully integrated back into society
and all of one's great opportunities. Yes.
So in order to take partin what Homeboy Industries has to offer,
do you have to come from incarceration?
No, no, no, of course not.Anybody is welcome.
(02:18):
Homeboy is faith based and love based.
Whoever comes through those doorsis more than welcome to receive help.
If we can provide it, we will.
It's a lovely thing,and it's so easy to feel
that energywhen you're in the homeboys space.
It's almost electrifying.
(02:38):
I remember being there in the gang.
Oh my gosh, there'ssort of so much tenderness and truth here.
You just feel likeeveryone has fallen into some safe arms.
So thank you for helping that move on.
And so today you're doing that and you'realso doing some other important work.
So tell us a little bit about that.Two of you.
(02:59):
So I'm currently interningas well at the office of the district 57,
which is South Central, downtown L.A.,which is here.
And parts of Watts big district. Yes.
It's huge.
Almost impossible to get all of it.
Yeah, and to try and figure outhow to wrangle that, I don't know.
(03:20):
And so I'm, I'm, I'mcurrently affiliate on
for the reentry partof of of our district.
I'm starting itI'm, you know, getting myself
in more involvedand entrenched in that because,
you know, I'm formerly incarceratedand I know the struggles
that I went through and many more behindme are going through the same thing.
(03:41):
So is your work in this districtto help people who may have come
from similar situations? Oh, yes.
And not just that, you know, just tohelp out homeless, the homelessness and.
AC. And mental health,you know, that's that's my whole mission.
That's my whole purpose inlife is just to give back, to give back
and to help others.
I found my purpose,but God has provided all the resources
(04:05):
and opportunitiesfor me to reach that purpose.
And I wholeheartedly believe that because
by me giving my will to God.
I've been blessed with abundance.
And I'm, you know, I'm I'm happy today.
I have self-respect today.What a blessing.
Yeah, it doesn't happenwithout without my higher power.
And something insideyou had to make a big shift.
(04:27):
Yes. Yes.
And speaking of that big shift, you know,it didn't start
the day that I got out of prison.
It started years before that.
I couldn't get past a lot of the trauma,
you know, defects that I had without
the resources that the prison systemstarted to provide for me.
(04:47):
And, you know, by megoing to classes, understanding myself,
understanding, you know, what I did,why I did what I did.
Don't hear many storiesabout people in your position
taking advantage of those programsin a good way.
Really?
And all that, Ithe prison system gets a bad rap
all the timeand I'm sure a lot of it is deserved.
(05:09):
But do people participate
in a meaningful way in these programs,or were you a rarity?
No. There's so many people in therethat I'm not going to see deserve
a second chance, because I don't knowif we deserve anything, right?
Because it's given by God's grace.
But there's so many people in therethat are suffering from traumas,
and we act on those traumas.
And, you know, I'ma big believer in restorative justice.
(05:32):
I don't have the the opportunityto establish
my accountability for what I've done.
Then I'm still suffering.
I'm still in pain.
I'm still resentful, angry and all that.
But if I start, if Iif I get a guide or or someone who's
who was willing to sit with meand guide me through and teach me
why I do what I do, where all comes from,then it opens the door
(05:56):
for for empathy, love, accountability.
So when you're given that gift,when someone sees you, hears you, and lets
you have your space without judgment,it makes you.
It makes it easierfor you to act in kind. Yes.
And then especially with the relatability,if I see one of my peers
change before my eyesand and for the better,
(06:19):
then it gives me hopethat if he can do it, then why can't I?
Right.
And now people are going to look at. Youand that's my hope.
I hope so too.
That people seethat I'm just like everybody else.
I'm not unique.
You know, this isn't you know, I'mnot, like, the smartest guy in the world.
However,I do everything through love, through,
you know, throughJesus's only commandment.
(06:42):
Love everyone like I love himor like he loves me.
Well, and I think, unfortunately,that operating from a place of love is
from truelove is a little bit hard to come by.
But, you know, we needpeople like you who can show us that.
So could you share with ussome about some of your upbringing
and what life was like, and what was lifelike at home when you were a kid?
(07:07):
Well, life at home was very tumultuous,to say the least for me.
Were you in Los Angeles? Yes.
We traveled a lot.
You know, I came from El Salvadorat three years old, from El Salvador.
We came to Los Angeles,
and I always had a disconnectwith my mother from the very beginning.
You know, my my early years were whereI was raised with my grandmother.
(07:28):
And so my grandmother was my mother.
So my mom came to, the United Statesfleeing the war as a refugee.
Did she come with you? Or before, you.
Know, she she came before me.
And so, you know, this way, I.
You connected with your grandmother.
My grandma was my mom. Sure.
And so when my mother came and tookme, it was I didn't understand.
(07:50):
So all all I thought was
I'm getting taken away from my mother,from this strange lady.
Right.
And that must be a not too uncommonscenario.
No, of course not.Because that's what happens.
The adults come and establish themselves.
Sure.
Then once that's accomplished,they bring the children.
I was never able to connect with my motherbased on my mother's traumas.
(08:12):
She wasn't able to connect either.
And so we all we've always had thistension between us.
Even today,
unfortunately.
And where was your dad during all of this?
I don't know who he is.
I don't know his name.
I don't even know anything about him.
And sadly, that's not uncommon either.
Sadly. Yeah.
(08:33):
So based on that, like,you know, and early traumas.
Mostly with my mother.
Beatings, feeling emasculated,mentally, physically, emotionally.
It was.It was tumultuous. And traumatizing.
And was it the two of youor were you with you?
I was with siblings.
Yeah.
We had we have nine in total in my family.
(08:54):
Goodness.So all of you were living with your.
Mother and stepfather? Yes.
And your grandmother never came out?
Yes, eventually she did.Eventually she did.
I was always tense, in my house,and I was, you know,
I didn't feel comfort
or safety or or, you know, even love in my
(09:16):
limited wisdom,I believe that my mom didn't love me.
And so that created a resentment.
And as the years wore on,
I became angry, you know, standoffish.
In school,I would fight, I would be rebellious.
But I love schoolbecause school was my sanctuary.
School was where I would be allowedto be away from, from home.
(09:41):
I don't know if anyone can relate, but
going home from school, I was terrified.
It was it was very terrifying to me.
Because you didn't know what to expect,or you knew that
what you would expect would come true,and it wasn't a good thing.
It's like being confronted by a bear.
You don't know if the bearis going to walk away today, or
(10:03):
if it's going to attack you,or you just waiting to see
what's going to happenand see if the bear's going to attack.
And did your other siblingsfeel the same way?
Do you think.
They felt the same way,but not in the to the extent that I did.
Even now, today, as we talk about that,my sister even tells me, you know,
it's skewed the language.
She said from the very beginning,you were screwed. Up.
(10:24):
From the very beginning.
You cut the brunt of all of it. Oh, gosh.
And where did you fall in the lineup?
I was right in the middle.
You were.
I was right in the middle.Yeah. Probably not the best place to be.
Being full in so many ways.
Yeah.
And so during my teenage years,that's when I exploded.
That's when everything hit full circle.
(10:46):
When I was before prison.
How did that present itself?
Through the gangs?
I went out.
It's that push pull, thing,you know, pushed out of the house
and pulled into the game.
And what did the gang offerthat you couldn't get at home?
They provided comfort.
They provided safety,they provided security.
I mean, as twisted as it sounds,I believed that
(11:08):
what I was getting from the gangwas everything that I wanted in my life.
Nobody had ever told me thatwhatever you do will be here for you.
Whatever you do, we.
We will have your back.
We will take care of you.
And that was something foreign to methat was alien to me.
But that must have felt good.
(11:30):
I mean, it made me feel that I belonged.
And, you know, I had an identity now.
How old were you?
At that point, I was 13.
And is that an age where,
gangs are looking to initiateyoung people.
Even even younger?
I mean, when I was involved in all that,I would see kids
(11:51):
even younger than me11 years old. Ten years old.
And is it easy for those peoplethat are looking for gang members
to suss out who is a potential candidate,like you had eight brothers and sisters.
Were they also approached? No.
My my story is quite uniquebecause I was approached by my brother.
(12:12):
We were in Oakland, Oklahoma.
I left that part out, butsomething had happened to my stepfather
when we were living in Long Beach.
I think he got, mugged or something.
And so after that,they took us out to Oklahoma.
Oh, and in Oklahoma, that'swhen like, you know, that's when all this,
all the beating starting, all the traumaand all that between me, my mother
(12:35):
and my brother got caught up in something
at home and got kicked out of the house,came to California.
And the little young guysthat I used to know from California,
they all grew upand they all became gang members.
And so my brother came back to Oklahomaand told me about
my old friends,and they're like, in Houston.
He told me the gang and they all miss you.
(12:59):
They want to talk to you.
There are old friends.
So there was a positive undertone to this.
Oh of course.
That was something that, you know,pushed me towards, not the gang,
because I had really no conceptionof what gangs were.
Being that I was, in school in Oklahoma,learning things in Oklahoma.
Gangs to me were on TV.
(13:21):
And so but when he came in and, you know,painted that picture of the homies,
the friends and the partiesand the good times and,
you know, that was very, very intriguing.
Intriguing. There you go.
It was very intriguing to me.
And none of the scary stuff. No.
It was shared. Fun.
And to be quite honest, it was fun
(13:41):
when I ran away from home, at 13,I ran away
because I had it,and I hitchhiked from Oklahoma to.
You did? Yeah. Twice. Wow.
And so when I,when I came to to Los Angeles,
I had all these people that were
I was fully embraced and I felt free.
(14:02):
I felt I'm an old man now.
I could do whatever I want,and I'm, you know, I'm not under anybody's
thumb anymore. And I felt free.
And so was it then.
Fun and simpleand loads of friendship for a while.
And then you sort of get this other stuffcoming to you. Yes.
(14:25):
The first fond parties I would startto see, you know, the violence.
And I would start to see the drug use,the drugs selling because, you know,
back in the time when I was growing up,the crack epidemic was going crazy.
Were the gang members also users?
Oh, yes. Yes, yes,I see that all the time.
And where were theysomehow able to keep it under control?
(14:48):
Because I would imagine.
Would once you start to become addicted,then you become a problem for the gang.
Erratic. And.
Yes. No. Some would,but for the most part,
we would sell the drugsmore than anything.
But I would see some of
some of the guys, you know, fall into itreally, really heavily.
So. So was it that.
(15:09):
Okay, we brought you into our family.
It's all great.
We've got your back.
Now, here'ssome things you need to do for us.
In my case, it wasn't necessarilysomething that they asked me to do.
It was something that I was willing to do,I see.
And that because experiencing no love,no compassion
and no tenderness,no kernel safety, that any of that.
(15:31):
So experiencing all
of it in one, one, one,you know, one shot.
I wanted to prove to themthat I was worthy.
Then I was willing to do whatever toto keep that love.
And they knew that.
And they knew that for the guys, theyof course, had, you know, bad intentions.
(15:52):
Negative.
But they were in the same boat that I wasthey were willing to do
the same thing that I was becausethey wanted the same thing that I did.
So I can't sit here and and tell you that
they wanted all thisbecause they were evil,
or they were willing to do X, Y, and Zbecause that was what they wanted.
(16:12):
It was they did thatbecause of what we were taught,
how we were indoctrinated and programed.
But at the deepest levelis which we want to love.
We wanted towe wanted comfort. Kind of amazing.
So in in general,that's how a gang becomes a gang.
It's you pull on the heartstringsand bring these people
in, and they supposedly have this lovethat they've never had before.
(16:35):
And it's all those things that you thinklove is obviously not love,
but nobody in the gang is better or worse
than the next personbecause you sort of all were lost.
Yeah, well, we were all lost and
and that's what I want people to, to knowgang members or whoever.
We don't do thingsjust because we're evil.
(16:56):
We do things based on a trauma, based on
how wegrew up and our beliefs became work.
If I believe, if I keep telling myselfthat, you know, I have to do this,
I have to do this,because if I don't, this happens,
then eventually I'm going to do itbecause that becomes my belief
and there's nobody there to arrest itor bring it back.
(17:19):
No, you have a choice.
You can do something else to get that.
And I think that most of us walk throughlife not realizing there's a choice.
There's a choice.
We think the life we're livingis the life we're living forever.
And we have to stop thatbecause we're going down the drain.
I mean, humanity at largewe're doing ourselves in
because we're not looking inwardand finding that we are valuable.
(17:45):
We're not looking to each otherto find the best
in each other,and we're not helping each other out.
I believe that in my instance,I feel powerless.
I felt that I hadI had no control over myself.
So by me not having any of that, I'mlooking outward
to getting I'm destroying lifewhile I'm doing it.
And of course, yes, I feel powerfulwhen I, you know, shoot somebody
(18:08):
or when I rob somebody or when I dowhatever x, y, and z, I feel powerful,
but for a split secondand then it goes away.
And then is there a feelingthat replaces that or nothing?
Is it a feeling of repulsionor just vacuous after.
Yes, after the fact? Yes. But
(18:29):
during I've accomplished
something and I feel powerful that
I had this person cowering beneath mebecause I took something from him,
or I made him beg for his lifeor whatever.
Whatever the case that goes away, though,the day after,
you know,I still feel the same way as I did before.
And so I go and do it againbecause I'm looking for that.
(18:51):
Interesting.
It's it's almost like an addiction.
Like an. Addiction.
And that's what that's what it is.That's exactly what it is.
Because I'm looking for comfort and I'mand I'm finding it
in this word, beliefthat I have it by me doing this.
I'm I'm getting it.
But there's another way to feel powerfuland and keep that power.
And I believe I've come to experiencegiving people power makes me powerful.
(19:17):
You're giving people love,makes me love myself even more.
And so, you know, I've come to find outand recognize that I had it all wrong.
I had it all wrong.
It's not about taking anythingfrom anybody.
It's about the moreI give, the more that I get.
Because he gives me everythingI need by me giving everything of me
(19:38):
to others, get everything I need.
You just become more,more and more filled with love.
It's interesting that somehow youyou felt a moment of gratification
when these big scary things were happeningthat you were in charge of
and they were harming someone else.
Reminds me of what you spokeabout, of your mom in that,
(19:59):
you know,you were always afraid to go home.
You never knew what to expect, but your
your momwas probably in a similar position.
You know, applying pressure on youand taking out whatever
she was missing or whateverher trauma was on you.
And then you now also carry that same
(20:21):
reactivity, that
same sort of behavior,because that's what you knew.
And going to my mother,I would do a lot of what I was doing,
like a lot of the,you know, negative things
that that I was doing,the choices that I was making,
I was doing those and blaming herbecause I was in that resentment.
Sure, if you hadn't done this.
(20:41):
I wouldn't have done this. Yeah.
And and it didn't change
until I first learnedforgiveness for myself.
And once I learned to forgive myself,I started to think about her.
And then I was able to separatewhat happened
with how I felt
when it happened and when I separated,that I was able to build that.
(21:04):
The empathy and the compassion for herbecause she I don't know
what she went through as a child,but I know she went through a lot.
Yes, she she had her own traumas to dealwith in whatever way she could. Yes.
And however she knew how to deal with mebeing rebellious,
being angry all the time, and violent.
(21:25):
She knew how to deal with methe way that she grew up.
Right?
All that she knew.
And that's all that she knew and and that.
And through that empathy, I'm able to havecompassion for her and forgive her.
I now am accountable for my actions.
It's not her fault that if I do X, y, z,
it's not her fault that I react.
(21:46):
It's my actionsand I'm accountable for those right?
When you figure outhow to stop holding on to all that
junk, that trash,
that trauma, and you,you let it go from who you are,
you release it, then you are who you are.
You're not carrying that stuff, andyou don't have to blame anybody for it.
(22:07):
I'm not a. Victim. Yeah, yeah.
So if this is hard to talk about,then just tell me.
But how did you
sort of spiral out of control to the placewhere you ended up in prison?
What were a couple of the first bad thingsthat you were asked to do,
and how did you get to the placewhere you finally ended up in prison?
(22:29):
Was this started with with a gun?
My own brother, you know,
you know, I was already involved,heavily involved in the gangs.
I was selling drugs,but it didn't turn violent until,
my brother
handed me a gun, and he told me there's
going to be somebody coming,and he's going to want to buy some drugs.
(22:52):
He has money.
So all you do is point the gun at him.
You know, don't shoot it.
Just point the gun at him
and he's going to give us the money,and I'll be still scared.
But me willing to, you know, show
all of them that I, you know,I was down for the hood and,
you know, willing to to,you know, put in work
or I said, okay, for sure.
(23:13):
I got the gun and my brother'shere he comes.
Is it okay?
And why, in this instance,was a gun required or fear factor?
Yes. For the fear,just simply because we wanted his money.
And the easiest way to get it was through.
Yeah. The power of a gun.
As he approached
approached us and I pulled out the gunand I didn't have to say anything.
(23:36):
He just threw the money and ran.
And so that made me feel powerful.
That was like, oh.
I am in. Charge right here.
Yeah.
Once I got introduced to that,there was no going back.
There was.
I felt so much controland I felt on top of the world.
And then.
Did you have a gun with youall of the time? Yes.
Oh, yes. Yes.
The one time that I didn't have a gun wasthe night that, my brother had got shot.
(24:00):
I was angry at myselfthat that couldn't protect him.
And I believe that he had got murdered.
And so in all that I was, you know,I was angry.
I was out of my my senses.
So he did not die.
He did not die.
But at that moment,I, I believe that he did.
Yeah.
And so that made the gun more powerful.
(24:20):
Oh yes.
I went to get it and went lookingfor, for,
you know, for the rivaland found him and shot him till he died.
And I shot him.
So I killed him. Yes.
And I have to live with that.
I have to live with that.
And and at that time, how old were you.
A 16.
How old was your brother. 18.
(24:41):
Such children. Yes, yes.
After you murdered that young manwho was what.
He was 16, 17 himself.
He was 18.
Was a young man as well.
Was it not longafter that you were discovered? Yes.
It was like.
But a week or two.I didn't feel remorseful.
I didn't feel bad about what I did.
(25:02):
I just feel bad about getting cut.
I feel bad that my life was over and. But.
And so this is this is how
how last
I was,I didn't really care that I was arrested
because my life was.
I felt hopeless anyways.
So when I got arrested,it felt was better than being at home.
(25:24):
Yeah. My gosh.
And in a way,you would still have similar comrades.
Exactly. Still free.
And so it really didn't matterbased on that.
You know, I was a kid, I didn't, you know,
my consequential thinkingwasn't as developed.
Sure.
And so I was just thinking about tomorrow,and tomorrow's
(25:45):
better than being home, betterbeing over there.
And they opened the doorfor me to duel. And ever.
I wanted to be as violentas I wanted to be.
As as, you know, as hurtful and harmful.
Do you mean before you were in prisonor both?
Both. Actually both.
But after it was like,I got worse because these are now people
(26:06):
who are violent
or scarywho are teaching me about other things.
Did you get worse becauseyou really needed to protect yourself,
and so you had to appear to beor become a big scary guy?
Yes. Well, actually,I'm not a big scary guy.
I'm a little guy.
And so and and I'm not Mexican.
(26:29):
So being that I'm from, you know,another race, I guess you could call it.
And I'm not a big guy.
You were already at a loss.
I had a loss. So I had to overcompensate.
And so everybody will have to be this.
And I have to do thisso you don't mess with me.
(26:49):
And so, like,you know, the first month, in prison,
know, in a regular prison yard,I was already in prison.
In in jail, in jail.
I, I went to the whole for for violenceagainst another individual.
This was in 1997.
And the ball started, started rolling.
After that,I got progressively worse and worse.
(27:10):
Kind of got myself caught up in,in the prison politics and gangs in there.
And, and I want to talk about that.
But what what was the conviction processlike?
You they they found you.
You were put in jail right away.
Did you have a proper trial?
Oh, everything was proper.
Everything from the beginning.
They got it right.
(27:31):
I was like, with a little discrepancies,but all in all, they got it right.
But, you know, me being callous, menot caring about anybody else and all.
Your honor, it wasn't me. I didn't do it.
I didn't have the gutsto stand up and own up to it.
Knowing their families,their sufferings and still, you know,
not thinking backbecause I hurt them so bad so much.
(27:53):
It's like an eternal painthat that I created for this family.
And what what was your sentence.
About 15 years to life?
Originally it was 25 years to life,but I appealed.
And based on, a discrepancy in the lastday, it was lowered down to 15.
And when it's 15 years to life,is it likely 15 years now?
(28:16):
It's likely life. Really?
Yes. Because, you know,through the governors of the past,
they were not letting anyonego to board to the board of prison terms.
Were not letting peoplego to give full, accountability.
There were opportunities
because I saw, you know, very few,but I saw people going home.
But it was they went far and beyondwhatever it was required.
(28:40):
You know, us lifers, we didn't have that.
We didn't have thethe necessary schooling, the resources.
We didn't have classes.We didn't have any of that.
So that was otherworldly.
That can happen to that person,but never to me. Yes.
Because based on, you know, Bill Clinton'stough on
crime bill'sthe crack epidemic of Pete Wilson's,
(29:01):
three strikes, you know,
all these laws that open the doorfor massacres, creation.
You know, the prison systemwas getting over, overran with inmates.
And so they were picking and choosingwho to give this class
the classes to, who to give this work,who to give these opportunities to.
Me, being a lifer, the attitude was,well, he's not he's no good anyways.
(29:24):
There's no point intrying to rehabilitate.
Just keep him in the cell and,you know, give him his TV
and keep him as comfortable as we canbecause he's going to die in here anyways.
So then for the first many years,you were,
you figured out how to adaptto where you were. Yes.
Become more callous, more. Callous.
(29:45):
More violent.
Someone that people would fear.
And you became, as you just mentioned, in
Vail,in involved in the politics of the prison.
And what is that?
All the prison politics are rules
or an or a group of peoplewho established these rules prisoners.
Prisoners.
And we follow these rules
(30:07):
to keep ourselves safe
from other prisoners.
Right.
And usually it's people of our own race.
White stick to the whites, Spanishwith the Hispanics, blacks to the blacks.
So that's a rule. Yes.
And what happensif you cross over the line.
Bad things.
(30:28):
Very very bad things.
The riots.You know I lost my eye in a riot.
There's an established rule
that you stick to your own
and by sticking to your own,you're relatively safe.
And is there thenin these individual groups, a hierarchy,
a government of sorts? Yes.
(30:48):
In any group,you know, in any group, even caveman days,
there was a hierarchy, you know,so that's just that's just, you know,
inherent in human beings,you know, we want to follow someone
who's going to lead us in the right way,you know, and based on our indoctrination,
based on our programing,based on our warped beliefs,
(31:10):
the more violentthe individual, the more respect he gets.
And so those arethe people will follow, you know.
And is that respect coming from fear?
Is it real respect? Is it?
I've got to figure out how to be likethis guy as violent as he is,
because that's the only wayI'm going to survive.
That's clearly what it is. It's not love.
(31:30):
We call it love, but it's not love.
It's fear, and it's our fear basedeverything that we're doing,
there's fear based.
Because if I don't do something,this is going to happen to me.
If I don't participate in a riot,this is going to happen to me.
You can't just stand back. Say,count me out.
There's no way, especially
(31:50):
in, in, yards
or in prison yardsthat are, you know, overrun with gangs.
It's it's
basically we don't have our own voice.
It's a voice of the collective.
If the collective says we're goingto do this and we're going to do this,
you know, the one voice that says no isgoing to get overridden by the collective.
(32:12):
So was there some comfort to be found in
just working within the system,within the politics?
Could you get some rest
once you knew that you were only on boardto follow the rules? Yes.
And I'm taking extremes because youin prison, you make it what it is.
(32:33):
You know, I went in and I went in violent.
So I made prison violent for myself.
But I didn't have to.
I had a choice.
I had a choice to, you know, sit back
and not involve myself,which a lot of people do.
How do they operate when they fallout of this system of rules?
(32:54):
They go to different yards.
They, you know,they ask the officers, you know,
I don't want to be in this environment.
Please take me out of this environment.
There's different yards for that.
You know, when I started my term,
there was there weren't opportunitieslike that.
You know, everybody went to that yard.
And Bullock.
I see.
But, you know, as as the years wore on,
(33:15):
the prison systemwanted to establish yards
where people do have a choiceto leave the gangs and, and go
and not be gang, a gang member or notparticipate in any wrongdoing
and focus on going home and,you know, the personal growth.
So there were opportunities for that.
But me being young,
(33:38):
being involved in all this,you know, madness.
I was too consumedwith what people thought of me.
If I was to go to a different yardto do anything but stay.
I see that would have shownthat you were weak or coward or.
Yeah, we're taught to believe.
And you were amongst a group of peoplewho obviously felt the same way.
(34:00):
Exactly. So?
So I took comfort in that.
I took comfort. Well, at least I would.
Solid people. And
it didn't change
until I started seeing guys go to group,go to
these resourcesthat were available to lifers
like me, people like,you know, that, that are murderers.
(34:21):
So what happened to give you a view?
What happened in your mind
or in your in your set of feelings to say,hey, wait a minute, wait a minute.
I don't have to be this 100%
violent, closed up guy.
I'm interpreting that as, You're asking me
(34:43):
for my moment or for my the moment of.
Yeah, generalization.
What I did,because it seems like a giant shift. Yes.
It's a paradigm shift. Right.
If you will.
What happened was I was in a visit.
I was in visit with this young lady.
She came to visit me.
We had become real good friends,and her husband had passed away.
(35:04):
But she never wanted to tell mehow her husband died.
And so finally we were talkingand she brought her son.
And her son has autism.
And so we're talkingand and I asked her, like, you know,
tell me about your your late husband
because you're always speaking of themand you don't speak highly of them.
(35:24):
And I'm curious what happens.
And so she's said, okay,
okay, I could talk, I can tell you.
And she's telling me the storyof how her husband got murdered,
a walk up, gang related shootingthat took his life.
And as she's telling me, this,
I'm seeing her change from this
beautiful young lady to this
(35:47):
sad, lonely woman
with a child that she's burdened with.
That right there.
Like you hate me so muchbecause I saw my victim's mother
that moment, and I was like, wow,this is what I did.
This is thethe evil that I created in this world.
(36:09):
And that touched me,you know, like, it changed me.
I can't imagine just hearing you saythat is heartbreaking.
And so I went backto, to the cell and stayed with me.
And so
that, that, that that day, you know,I was like, okay, I wasn't very religious,
(36:29):
but I knew God existed because he hadgotten me into so many, so many things.
I so I prayed, so, God, you know,I can't do this no more.
I can't I can't do this.
I did, you know, and this lady,
she didn't deserve that.
And Victor's mom didn't deserve thatbecause that's my victim.
You know, Victor Medina, I want, I want,I want to honor him.
(36:53):
Thank you.
And, yes, I, I I, I couldn'tdo it anymore.
And so things started to change inside mewhen I, you know, when
I'd go out to the yard and I'd see peoplegetting hurt, you know, stabbed.
And I want to see the same anymore.
Whereas before I was, you.Well, you messed up. Oh.
Well, now I've seen,
(37:15):
man, his mom.
What was going to happen when they toldhis mom that her son almost got murdered
or got murdered, or was his sistergoing to feel how his wife does?
You have any kids?
I was starting to think about thethe repercussions
of, you know, what's going on.
Feelings.
Feelings that started pulling on me and
(37:36):
it got to whereI don't even want to see that anymore.
I don't want to know about that anymore,
because I don't want to be a part of thatanymore.
It's it's too hard for me.
Is just. It's just too.
I just got tired.
I got tired of all of it.
Weren't you afraid of undoing what you hadbecome in that?
Would you be hurt?
(37:57):
No. Because by thenI was already exhausted.
By thenI was already to the point where it's.
I'd ratherbe dead than be involved in this.
So being hurt, it's is part.
Of the matter to this part of me.Come after me.
But I'm not doing this.
And so I went and I went, I went tothe yard and and I talked to the guys.
(38:18):
I told them the problem.
And this was like about about a yearafter that incident with wouldn't visit.
So it took a while.It took, you know, wasn't as spontaneous.
But that moment that momentwhere, where I saw that and I connected it
and internalized it isI know that's the moment that I changed
and was the momentthat I didn't want this.
(38:40):
It took a while for me to finally,you know,
drum up the courageto go out to the yard and,
and talk to the guysand tell them, don't count on me, bro.
Don't count on me.I don't want to do this anymore.
I'm not going to do this anymore.
And they were okay with it.
Mr.. Prizing me. There was. There's this.You know what?
That's fine. Respect it.
(39:01):
Just don't count on us.
If something happens to you.
You're on your. Own.Either. You're on your own.
And I was okay with that.
I was okay with that because
I didn't want to be violent anymore.
Did this meanthen that you moved to another yard? Yes.
And then I went.
I voluntarily went to the officeafter afterwards.
(39:21):
And I told the officers,I don't want to be part of this anymore.
I'm ready to change myself in my life,
and I don'tI don't want to be a part of this.
And so, yeah,I went to another yard where, where there
there were gangs,but I wasn't part of anything anymore.
And it was acceptable there. Yes.
To not be part of any of that.
And so I was free,you know, I was free of that.
(39:45):
And so since I was free of that now,it left
open me to focus on me
and not worry about anybody else, notbecause I wasn't going to be in any danger
if I went to churchor if I went to, a program or anything.
So it was more about,how am I going to fix what I broke.
(40:09):
And I thought it was going to be helpingothers, right.
Like doing good for others.
But it didn't start like that.
It started with fixing me a fix.
Was broken in here, and the groups
that I was going to were pretty profound.
But let me backtrack a little bit, because
I didn't go to the groupsoriginally to change.
(40:31):
I saw my ticket home because I saw guysgoing home through these groups.
The groups that, were there were to me,there were just people talking
about their their feelings.
And you didn't maybe
see that there were different typesof people in these groups, people who were
really changingbecause of their involvement versus people
(40:54):
who are just playing along, playing along.
And you thought,all I have to do is show up and.
And I'm out.
But somehow, somewhere along the line,when you're at the other end,
it can be discerned whether you werereally in it or on the sidelines.
And at first I was on the sidelines.
At first I was,but then I started hearing testimonies.
(41:18):
I started hearing people talk,and I started hearing my story.
I started hearing myselfin what these people were saying.
And I started to really think,well, maybe,
maybe I'm not as different,maybe I'm not as unique,
and maybe there is hope for me to,in hearing these stories.
Because what?
(41:39):
This guy was just as violent or this guy,he was just
this is as much of a liar as I was.
I washe was more than a manipulator than I am.
But now look at him.
He's actually I can actually see him outin the yard helping people,
being friendly.
And so I'm thinking, man,if he could do it,
maybe I'm not as as lost as I thoughtI was.
(42:01):
And so, you know, I would talk to himor talk to other guys and,
and the profound insightthat they had, it blew my mind.
And I was
imam I was I would never,
never get to where they're at,but at least I'm going to be decent.
And that's what I want to do.
I want to be a decent human being,going to the to the groups.
(42:23):
And that gave me a little bit more courageto speak up, to talk
about me, to talk about my,you know, my traumas.
And you didn't have the pressure anymoreof having to protect yourself.
Exactly. First and foremost,
from the very beginning,when you were at home as a little kid.
He's actually.
All the way up.
So, you know, I was carrying all that.
That's a big deal to let go of.
(42:44):
Really. Yes.
To to say, I'm going to walk this walk
and I'm not going to be thinking,number one, about how do I protect myself.
Or who's watching me. Or. Yeah.
And then you can open all these doors
because that was your full timejob, right?
Really.
Safety.
(43:05):
Protecting myself. Yeah.
Defending myself against what?
It whatever you thought it would be.
Or that I thought and and come to find outit was it was.
He was me all along.
If people didn't care about me,they were worried about themselves.
But I'm.
I was so caught up in what other peoplethought that I forgot about what I thought
about me, I forgot about I forgot mein the process now was different.
(43:29):
I was now focused on me
and not caring about what they thinkbecause I'm important, I matter.
And if I don't matter to anyone,I matter to myself.
And so they, you know,that's that self-love that I was
developing for myself was empowering.
Yeah. You want more.
I want more. And not only do I want more,I want to give it away.
Yeah, well, so you you saw
(43:51):
these people who had been in positionsmuch like you're yours.
And now they were trading that infor going out in the yard
and helping someone who needed help,feeling some amount
of a different kind of empowermentfrom that.
Oh my. God.
And and when I started doing that.
And it's funnybecause when I went to board,
(44:14):
the commissioner asked when he said,
you know, there's people herethat come and say your name.
Say who? You know that you helped him.
What do you get from that?
And and I told him, you know, at firstI thought I was going to get pride
because, you know, yeah, I'mhelping people look at me, but.
Oh, they actually got more humbled.
(44:35):
I actually felt more, more humble.
And knowing that, you know, I'mhelping to enrich somebody's life
through my compassionand through my friend, my friendliness.
It's humbling, you know, it's it makes mewant to do more, you know, because
I'm giving instead of taking.
(44:57):
And even if you were doing it fora prideful reason, you know, look at me.
I'm helping these people.
I mean, that's not really love.
And I believe that there's healthy prideand this journal unhealthy.
You should feel pridefor all that you're doing.
Of course, but it's not the motivator.
Of course not.
You know, the motivator for me is love.
And I think I started out with Jesusas his one and only commandment.
(45:20):
Love others like he loves meand I mean, if I
if I do that, I can't go wrong.
He loves meeven though I killed another individual.
He loves me even though I sold drugs.
He loves me even though I didall these crazy things and harmful things.
Through all that, he still loves me.
(45:42):
And if he has that amount of love for me,then I know I'm capable.
Have that amount of love for anybody,doesn't matter who.
And it is as homeboys says,
you are not your trauma,
you are not the bad acts.
(46:02):
Those are not you.
We're not defined by our acts.
I'm not defined by what I did now.
I define myself by what I'm doing today.
Forward.
That's how I define myself.
Because that's coming from love.
Is coming from love.
And if if it's not from love,then I don't want it.
I don't want to help somebody becauseI'm going to get something in return.
(46:27):
You can feel the difference. Yes. Right.
And when I do help somebody elsewalk away, I don't do it
because the right thing to do,I do it because it makes me happy.
Yeah. Because it fulfills me.
And that's all I've ever wanted.
And that'swhat we're supposed to be doing as humans
who have these feelings,who know about love.
(46:48):
We are community.
Yeah, we're just a big community,and we need each other.
And, you know, the the,the people out there that are doing,
you know, committing crime or doing badacts, they do that based on the defects.
They do that because they're tryingto protect themselves, their traumas,
their hurts, their pains, their fears.
(47:08):
They do that because they want comfort,
but they're doing it,you know, you know, in a negative way.
They're going out into the worldwith the only tools they have.
The only tool they have.
And I'm I don't want to saythere are other tools that you can learn,
and there are other ways.
And we have choices regardless.
We have choices.
(47:30):
And so many of us, like I said earlier,we just
walk the path that we've always walked,not even thinking that there
is a fork in the roadand that you might actually
walk down that other path.
We just deal with cardswe were dealt because we're comfortable.
We are.
But that doesn't mean thatthat is who we really are.
(47:53):
We're just carrying all the weight thatwe've been given, and we don't have to.
We don't have to.
And underneath all of that is a worthy,
admirable little kernel of love.
And we all have it.
We all have it.
All capable of bringing that out.
(48:14):
This is we have to pull that onion.
We have to get through all of it.
So is that what you did in the processof getting yourself out of prison was
you learned enoughand you peeled away the onion, and when
you spoke to the people who were in chargeof making decisions on your behalf, it
finally came from a place
of absolute honesty. Yes.
(48:36):
And they obviously could seethat you had become
what you were describing, you had become,and that you weren't just playing a game.
They know that's their livelihood.
You know they get paid to do this.
But not only do they getpaid to do this, it's
their it's their obligationto to protect society from.
Sure. Right.
(48:57):
And so they, they, they'rewell versed on on who's radio who isn't.
And were you were you surprisedwhen your time finally came.
How many triesdid you make at this. Eight tries.
Oh eight tries. Over the course of years.
Ago, over a course of, 27 years.
26 years.
(49:17):
How long were you in prison?
30 years and nine months.
My goodness.
Yeah. So.
So when I went in this last time
and I, you know,I'm telling you this with all honesty,
it really didn't
matter to me if I was let go orif I was going to stay in there forever.
There's a differencebetween being liberated and being free.
I was free already,so it didn't matter where I was.
(49:38):
I was living decent anyways,
so didn't matter because when I die,
I know I'm going to die a decent manregardless of where I'm at.
What a treasure.
And it is, you know, carrythat and I protect it
every day through through my works,every day.
If the board was to say, well, you know,we don't believe it, right?
Okay. That's fine.
(49:59):
That's your opinion. And I respect it.
And so you were going to stop tryingafter that? No.
I mean, of course I was,I was going to keep trying, but.
It didn't matter.
It didn't matter.
And how long have you been liberated?
Oh, a year and June 25th of 2024was the day that I got free deliberated.
And so it's now June.
(50:21):
July, August, September.
Do you still wake up and think.
Wow, yes,yes I do, and I never want to lose that.
I never want to lose it.
Was the world a surprising place?
It was more scary than anything.
It was so big.
Everything is so fast.
Things are so different out here.
(50:42):
There's more color
and there's just blue and gray.
Interesting.
And here, you know, around the world, it'slike I'm actually seeing colors.
I never thought about that.
And sounds and smells.
And the first time, the
a rose petal,you know, I used to draw roses.
(51:02):
And when I saw the actual roseand the drawing that I would draw
and I would compare them as,oh, I got it right,
or I got this littleI got this little fold.
Oh, yeah, I got, I got that right too.
And, and now and I'm, I'mactually holding one and touching ones.
Things are so precious.
30 years of not being ableto touch the bark of a tree.
(51:26):
I was touching it.
And, you know, not an officer walks by me
and automatically put my hand backlike I was doing something wrong
when I as I was touching it,I was not like in all like.
And I'm actually touching a tree.
We all need a more a little more of that.
Oh man. Yes we do.
So now isdid you go directly to home, boys?
(51:50):
Did you have friends or loved ones to.
No I didn't, I had no one a week priorto to getting out.
You know, I'm just talking to God.
You know, I was I was thinking, you know,
I'm free.
I havemy purpose, and my purpose is helping
others and really, really engagingin someone else's, freedom like mine.
(52:11):
But I had no idea of how I was goingto accomplish that.
And so in my conversation, I told them,this is your will.
Now I'm giving this to youbecause mine was it was garbage.
I ran, I ran into the dirtI was no good at.
Don't look to me for making the decision.
(52:31):
I was no good at driving.
You know,the car is all mangled and destroyed.
I can't do this no more. I'm going to.
I need you, you know.
Teach me and I will obey you, I will obey.
And I told them, you know, butI want to help people, but I want to do
I want to do the oppositeof what I was doing instead of taking.
I want to give us, you know, life.
(52:52):
We have to come outand not have to put a strongly advised
or encouraged to go to,transitional housing for six months.
And throughout those six months, you know,the program is supposed to help us.
And so I'm there three months,three weeks, and I'm just in there,
you know, in my room doing nothing,wondering what I'm going to do today.
(53:13):
I get a knock on the door, and one ofmy friends tells me, there's this lady
that is running for state assembly,and we want you to help her.
Do you think that you can go and help her?
With her campaign? I was like,
There there you are.
I'm in as in I a yes for sure.
Community service.
(53:35):
That's what I want.
Yeah, yeah.
So he said, okay, here's the address.
I got lost, obviously
I jumped on the bus and.
I went.I don't know where, and I got lost.
I went late, but,
the girl that was the secretary,she said, oh, we're waiting.
We were waiting on you.
I'm going to take you to her.
So they she took me and there she was.
(53:57):
And and she said, okay.
You're the guy that, you know.
Crusades. Yeah.
Didn't ask me any questions.Didn't nothing.
She already knew that I was.
I was formerly incarcerated,but she didn't ask for words.
She just knew that I wanted to help.
And, that's.
I met her and her foster daughter that dayand gave me the script,
and we went and knocked on the first door,and the rest is history.
(54:19):
You know, we fought and I, you know, I, I
participated so much in community service.
I saw she opened my eyesto so many opportunities that
that I could have to dowhat my purpose is.
And there were so many instancesthat I know, I know it's God.
It's I know it, I know it.
(54:41):
He he provided so many opportunitiesfor me, put so many things in my way
that allow me to have a bigger platformto look.
Giving here, this this is God right here.
This is love right here.
Yeah. He put this together.
I had nothing to do with it.
Well, we need your voice.
No, I'm I'm I'm interning with withwith the district office.
(55:06):
I'm also a liaison for the reentry,part of the, the the the office.
Amazing.
And and clearly,you believed in in her goals
and what she wanted for her community.
And you could take part in that.
She's my my savior.
I don't see you two years later,but she is, This lady,
(55:27):
I have so much respect for herbecause she didn't.
She didn't care.
You know, she just saw some needed helpand jumped in.
And share her name.
Her name is de L'Homme.
Thank you so much, Shadi, for helping out.
And I with his path.
She opened so many doors for me.
(55:47):
She introduced me to so many peoplethat now are friends.
Really good friends,and I mean powerful people.
I could clearly say, you know,without God first, but without her
I'm not where I'm at.
And so for about seven months,
give or take, we were in the campaign,
we're fighting, we're doing whatwe're doing to help her win.
(56:10):
And she did.
She won.
Obviously.
We we won like, handily.
But then, you know, my my hard headedness,I said, okay, now we're going to work.
Now we're going to get down to it.
Do all these things.We said we were going to do this.
And and she's like, she said,yeah, we are, but you need to heal.
(56:32):
You need to really get
inside and change a lot of those beliefs
that you grew up withbecause you are worth it.
You are a good person.
And I was like,no, no, no, I, I'm okay, I'm okay.
Let's go. I want to work.
So now I know this programthat can help me
(56:53):
and can put me in,you know, the right, the right path.
But I'm going to go there three months
and that's it.
Then I want to come to work.
She said, okay, I'll give you that.
And this program was Homeboy Industries.
Three months was what I gave her.
Now I'm in therenine months and I'm still there.
And no reason to leave.
(57:14):
It's so beneficialand you're getting to help others there.
Oh my gosh.
I mean HomeboyIndustries is is a awesome program.
And I mean look what it's done for me.
I can say enough.
You know, I've learned a lot of business,you know, things things,
the little things.
You know, how to be reliable, howto be responsible, how to be accountable,
(57:36):
how to be disciplined every day.
Go to work, be on time.
It's given me that self-respect of,you know, to be professional.
And but most importantly,it's it's helped me heal it.
It's it's, you know, I have therapy there.
I have with mom, my therapist,and she's she's so great, you know.
Yeah.
And she helps me, you know, when I talkto her, she she gives me good insight.
(57:58):
It's kind of a great modelfor how we how our politics should work,
how our how we raise our children,how we talk about our families.
It's amazing.
I don't know how in that worldwith so many people,
so many people that they're helping,
that they stay balanced, like they do.
(58:18):
This because
everything comes from love and respect,because you walk through them doors.
You know, I'm not going to look at anybodydifferent because that person's me.
You know, that community is me.
And you feel thatwhen you walk through that. Right.
And and when the person walks through themdoors,
they're not going to feel intimidated.
They're not going to feelthey're being watched.
(58:40):
They're going to be welcomed.
It doesn't matterwho comes to those doors.
We need more of that. I felt, you know,
and so
I told her, three months,I'm going to give you three months.
And and now I'm, I'm there nine months.
I've been there nine months.
And, you know, I'mI'm I'm part of the intimate program.
And you're doing both things.
Yes. Yeah.
(59:00):
And it's exhausting because I'm.
I'm in school as well.
Oh, my gosh.
I have, I'm doing college of my collegework.
I'm so impressed.
And thank you for it.
But it's it's yeah, it's it's it's a lot.
But I take it on because at the end it's
going to be for the, my purpose.
(59:22):
It's going to befor what I want to do for others.
And I have to go through this.
This is you know, he put this in my pathand let's go doing it.
I gave my word and let's go.
The reason why I'm doing this podcastis because I want people to know
it can be done. And there are options.
We have choices and we have peoplewho are willing to help.
(59:45):
There are people out there who do love us,
and I say usbecause I'm part of the reentry community.
I'm part of my my community at large.
I'm a human being and I'm being helped
and look at the past that I have,and I'm still being helped.
I mean, look at allthat you've had to recover from.
(01:00:06):
It's pretty potentstuff. And and all of us,
well,
almostall of us have some amount of trauma.
Little giant, whatever it isthat we take with us through life.
And as we said before,we don't know how to step away from that
or how to make a change.
We're afraid of that shift.
Is your adviceto really look inside yourself
(01:00:31):
or look to others around youfor their loving support?
My my advice,my advice is this whatever trauma
that that you have, it's your trauma.
It doesn't matter what anybody'sjudgment is about that trauma.
It's your trauma and you're carrying it.
It could be, in my judgment,something small.
But to you, it's big to you,
(01:00:56):
it's a it's a boulderthat you're carrying.
It's molding who you are, who you.
Becoming and you become.
But no matter what that trauma
doesn't have to
be carried, doesn't have to have the powerthat it does.
The only way that you can get throughthis is through
having love for yourself, compassionfor yourself, care for yourself.
(01:01:16):
If you're able to do that,
you're not going to act on that trauma.
You're not going to be
what people say that you are.
You going to be who you were meant to be,and you were meant to be a child of God.
You were meant to be loved.
You were you were meant to havepeople surround you with care and
and compassion and everything that we are
(01:01:39):
inherently, we inherently have within us.
It's the human experience,human experience.
And that's my message.
You're meant to be loved.
You are meant to have love you.
You're meant to be part of us.
You're not excluded.
You're not different. No.
So everybody,there's a way to walk your best path.
(01:02:01):
And sometimes it's hardto figure out what that is
or even know that it exists,but it exists.
And listen to that. And night.
An amazing story to tell us.
And you shared so muchthat I'm sure was hard to share.
And we really appreciate it.
Really appreciate it.
And thank you.
And thank you for doing all the good workthat you do.
(01:02:23):
And thank you so much for having me.
I am so honored and humbled that.
We're we're so happy that you're here.
Thank you.And keep on listening and watching.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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