Another Side of Midnight with Lionel

Another Side of Midnight with Lionel airs weekends from 2–5am on 77WABC. Emmy Award-winning legal and media analyst Lionel delivers bold commentary on politics, law, culture, and current events, alongside lively conversations with listeners nationwide.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nine to let me get this right, eight hundred and
eight four eight nine two to two to as many
as many? And why we have eight hundred numbers anymore?
I have no idea surplusage. Indeed, my friends, welcome to
the sets. Well, I guess this is Sunday version, the
early morning version of this weekend edition of ours. I

(00:25):
wanted to discuss something which I find fascinating. I think
I've told you this before. I love human behavior, I
swear to you. I look around and I think, what
in the heck is this? What is what?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
What?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Just any kind of human behavior, especially when there were
groups of people anything, I love it. I just I
love it.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yesterday my wife and I went we happened to a
wonderful place called Ort Farms. We went to a couple
of it's it's it's the Jersey. It's tis the season
to pick up corn. I buy corn by the case.
I just there's nothing like it. Also Jersey tomatoes in
my life. But this place or its farms, very nice.

(01:10):
It's in Long Valley, New Jersey. And they have a
petting zoo and kids are playing and they have this
these little mechanisms you can hit and make noise, and
I I just sat and just watched and just observed,
because I think human behaviors, especially when children are allowed

(01:35):
to be children, where there's this interaction, when there's this
thing called the country and sunflowers, we just act differently,
sometimes good, sometimes weird, as is the case of tattoos.
I will never understand tattoos as long as I live,
especially the fact that so many people are getting these
hideous sleeves of horror with some lead paint ache. Anyway,

(02:00):
I digress, But something I'd like to discuss is the
way we handle death. And I wanted to discuss something
with you called auto morn. And there's a lot. There's
more to this story than you could imagine yesterday. As
you know, maybe maybe you knew this, maybe you didn't
know this, But there was as a fellow by They

(02:22):
were Vinceton pastory or pastor. He played the beloved salvatory big.
Let's call him big Puss, right, I don't want to
I even though I know I'm saying it correctly, my
natural and even that might have been in correct, but
my natural alarms go off. But let's call him Woozy.

(02:46):
Big Woozy. You know what I'm talking about Bumpin' Sierro.
He played the soprano's hit. He died at the age
of eighty. His death was confirmed yesterday. He was found
at his City Island in New York home after friends
had been able to reach him. His death was reported

(03:06):
to be from natural causes. And the first part about
me always says, well, we'll see about that. It's just
my natural suspicion for anything involving people who are of
note and the like. And there's there's so much to
talk about. There's the phenomenon of the sopranos and how

(03:26):
it was the last time that we had appointment TV.
And also something perhaps that maybe you might not think
about when you are an actor in the old days,
that there was something wrong with you. Your eye was a
bit of skew, you had a funny pronunciation. In fact,
after the decline or the cessation of silent movies, a

(03:51):
lot of these great actors and actresses had no voice
or had no thick, you know, Eastern European accents, and
they weren't. But if there was something wrong with you,
not wrong, something different, normally it would be a disqualifier. Well,
you know, I could not believe the number of actors

(04:15):
the characters on the Sopranos had a distinctive sibilant or
lisp like speech, although technically in most of the accents
were voices rather than true lisps. But if you want
to see, because I'm I can't help but listen to

(04:36):
how people speak, mouths, tongue thrusting, even the the Gathilian
you know from from Fromanya, you know Tha Gonzalez, but
the the not the Excuse me, I don't want to
say the worst, but one of the most pronounced was

(05:00):
the FBI agent Skip Lipari. This wash Woosy's a handler
as it were played by Lewis Lombardi. His speech his
was the most pronounced lisp barnun and when he and Woosy,

(05:25):
I'm sorry, I don't want to alarm anybody spoke together.
It was incredible. I mean it was incredible. Johnny Sack,
that actor or that that particular character also huge. I'm
sorry I shouldn't say that. Not a huge list but
pronounced part man, I mean to make it sound like
it's negative. Tony Soprano James Gandlofini had this h he

(05:49):
had this sh kind of an impediment of swords. And
then there was of course poly Walnuts, who also had
a cut of very state high nasal but a very
very interesting sibilance and tongue thrust. So I just that,
just I thought was so interesting to have so many

(06:10):
actors normally disqualifiers, normally disqualifiers, one would think from this,
but you know that from nineteen ninety nine, this kills me.
But the Sopranos from nineteen ninety nine January to June
to two thousand and seven, that was it, just eight years?
And did you know a couple of things about this

(06:32):
and we'll get into this notion about this particular death
in the moment, did you know? I'm sure you did,
But did you know that the Sopranos is probably more
how do we say this, probably more popular today than
it was then. That virtue of internet, YouTube and others,

(06:55):
and a lot of gen Zers and the like are
finding that it was so interesting because they can't believe
this was ever on quote TV and I granted it
was cable, but it was They couldn't believe it where
they would say things that would be overtly racist or

(07:15):
crude or violent and it was accepted. Not only that
It was probably the last time that we had true, actual,
true appointment TV. Maybe maybe the last time there's an
incredible story. It just fascinated me. Sunday Nights, everybody the

(07:36):
theme song, the serialization, and they talk about why was
it so good? Why was it not? It was fascinating.
But one of the biggest questions I had, and maybe
you can answer this is number one. Why is it
that we have always loved since the beginning of time?

(08:00):
To people? Why why mobsters? None of these people were
good people, none, But people forget is that Tony Soprano
was basically, I don't use the word psychopath, but a treacherous,
not a good person. These people weren't smart, they weren't funny,

(08:22):
they weren't particularly talented. They were brutal and ruthless and
just nothing remotely redeeming. But we loved them and people
liked them. Why why there wasn't one character if you
think about it that you say, you know what I'd

(08:43):
really like? I mean, deep down inside that how do
I say this somebody who wasn't just detestable. And the
other issue is the history of organized crime movies changed
in nineteen seventy two with the Godfather prior to that,

(09:03):
anybody who was involved in or any kind of movie,
any kind of depiction of organized crime, specifically the mafia
as they say, or the LCN, whatever you want, whatever
you want to call it. All of that, all of
that was the viewpoint from the guy on the corner,
from the thug, from the guy who was the actual

(09:27):
how do I say this, the person on the corner,
on the level of the street thug, not the operational
hierarchy that changed everything. Godfather changed everything. In fact, people
said suggested, not only did law enforcement say this, but
people in the restaurants notice this, but that the dress changed.

(09:51):
People changed. Everything changed drastically after that movie. And today
there's this absolute love of fear. There's this plethora. Godfather
was great, Godfather Too was worphic. Godfather II was an embarrassment.
Then Goodfellas two sort of kind of different but extremely

(10:16):
critical movies in the pantheon. When you see organized crime,
you normally mean you mean you know Italian organized crime.
So here is the question which I find so fascinating,
And maybe you have as well. Maybe you do, maybe
you don't. I don't know, but I won't tell you
this much. What is it about bad people that that

(10:43):
incites you so much. There are so many of these,
O don wun't necessarily mention them, but a lot of
YouTube titles people who used to be in the mouth
Michael Franzis, by the way, Sonny Franzis or franse if
nobody ever pronounces it correctly but me, Michael Frenzies, uh,
Sammy the Bowl others. They first started this thing, and

(11:08):
now Franzis has transcended that, and they invariably will say
the same stories over and over, and then you have
this absolute they came out of the woodwork. There's so
many of these, lesser known but I mean hyper stylized,

(11:28):
almost prototypical examples of you know, mobsters explaining basically telling
me if I hear the same Jimmy the gent Burke
story one more time, or Roy Demeyo or the Gemini lounge,
I mean, it's the same. A lot of them just
repeat the same things. But here is the story. What

(11:51):
is the reason for this fascination? Why do we like this?
If the Sopranos were about flower arranging or somebody who
owns a gas station, nobody would care. Honorable people working
at a gas station. Nobody cares about that, but the
idea that there was sex and drugs and mayhem. And

(12:14):
more importantly, this is the most important. This is something
called auto morn. Auto morn is when people pretend that
every single death online in the entertainment business in particular
crushes them, affects them in ways that they can't even explain.
They can't explicate, they're they're so hurt, and they have

(12:38):
to post. Especially. I have a friend of mine who
has a picture of everybody who has ever lived, and
as soon as that person dies, there's a picture on
Facebook or Instagram of this person, kind of in the
end a biz with this person who died, Tony Bennett
or I'm sure you know Vincent Pastor to say, look

(13:02):
at me, I knew them. I'm somebody, I'm important. Look
see I stood next to him. Look he's got his
arm on me. See look see this, See I knew them.
It's okay. But that, of course, is the power of Facebook,

(13:22):
where we have to chronicle every single thing that we do.
And finally, finally, what was, in your humble opinion, the
greatest gangster mob whatever you want to call it, movie?
And why what were the lesser knowns, and let's discuss this.

(13:46):
What is it? What is what is honest to God?
What is the story the true story as to why
we from an entertainment medium, why do we find people
who are despicable interesting? Why do women marry Richard Ramirez
or one two or the Manindez brothers. Why do people
Ted Bundy was married? I believe yes? Why is it

(14:12):
serial killers? Let us delve into this aspect of the
dark side of human behavior? Eight hundred eight four eight
nine two to two. This is a line up with
you on another side of midnight? Wasn't that great? Wasn't

(16:51):
that just a great I'm telling you that was such
a great, great, great show. I watch it and it's
better and better as it marinates. It's James Gandolfini, a
real mess towards the end, but a great actor. The
whole ensemble was to ripping. The whole thing worked. Not

(17:13):
not every character was to riff figure, not every moment.
But but I you know, when when David Chase would
talk about the sopranos, he always gave this word, it's
about Filmily, it's not about family. It's about a bunch
of stories nobody cared about about a j or meadow
and you know whether the she has an African American boyfriend.

(17:36):
Nobody cares about that. They want to see shooting and
death and treachery, and that's what it's about. The question
is why, though, why? I mean, it's just interesting. I
am fascinated and have been by serial killers. I loathed
these people, detest them. Nothing at all funny about them,

(17:58):
more interesting. But but it's fascinating, fascinating in many respects
because of the fact of the of the of the darkness,
the depth, the fact that they should do a show
about radio stations. It would be so horrible people wouldn't
even believe it happened. Let's go, let's go to the phones.
And what was your In my very humble opinion, I

(18:21):
think the best movie in my lifetime, in my generation
was The Godfather. Godfather one just in terms of the cinema,
the story, everything, the lighting. It changed everything. Godfather iiO
equally is interesting, not the same, but on a different level,

(18:43):
a different level. Godfather three was an abortion. It was
so horrid and goodfullas of course wonderful, and also was
interesting about how stories veer. There's a book called The
Godfather Companion by Peter Biskyn have a copy of it
might be out of print. And the author looked at

(19:04):
the book by Mario Poozle, which is terrific, the book.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
The.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Screenplay and the movie, and how there were inconsistencies, how
things are left out and the Godfather. For example, the
character that was really just not even mentioned was Luca Browsie.
Oh my god. In the book he was just I mean,
he was just evil, played by Lenny Montana. Ostensibly he

(19:35):
was the Zebra Kid. He was a professional wrestler himself,
purportedly a hit or a button man himself who got
his badge straightened out. From what we hear, goodfellas interesting
to I knew some how do I say this? Some

(19:57):
members of that particular story, perhaps tangentially, and a lot
of it was not correct. It was, but but it
doesn't matter. It's not a documentary. But what were the
great stories? And why is it that I'm telling you
the story which I will never How do I say this?

(20:18):
What Hollywood has yet to really explore was the West
Side where I am here in Hell's Kitchen, the westiest
state of Grace is with Sean Penn and uh Sean
Penn oh, and Gary Omen was superb, absolutely superb, And

(20:45):
that was another aspect, another part. It's just never I
don't know why we don't. It doesn't catch it. It's
the richest characters of them all. And I know so
many people, and many of them are they died, but
who live. We're in this area where they all remember this,
and each of these people despicable, theoretically psychopathic, but fascinating.

(21:09):
And the question is why is this forbidden fruit? Is
it the outlaw story? Let's go to the phone, shall he?
Eight hundred and eight four eight nine two two two
Loretta in Brooklyn, you're on another side of midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
Good morning, Lionel.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Whyta fine?

Speaker 4 (21:28):
That's good to know. I remember the Black Hand movie.
It was a black and white movie on TV. Ernest
borgnine was a character actor, but he played a cop
trying to infiltrate the mob.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Is this about Petrosino? This isn't about Petrosino, is it.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
I don't remember that name. I just know the movie.
The name of the movie was The Black Hand, and
that's the first mob movie I remember because it was
in black and white. We had black and white TV
and Ernest borgnine was playing the cop infiltrating the mob,

(22:11):
and whenever they made a hit they signed it with
the imprint of a black hand.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well that's interesting, that's I'm looking right now. The original
one of the black Hands was from nineteen fifty you
see the one You're born. This is with Gene Kelly
of all people, and then oh, here we go. He
did not star in The Black Hand, but he famously
played real life police lieutenant. Oh yeah, Joseph Petrosino. I

(22:38):
wasn't right in the movie Pay or Die. It was
called nineteen sixty where he paid played Joseph Petrosino. This
was the famous New York City cop who went to
Sicily and was killed. And the Black Hand or Lamado
Neiro where these were the original extortion this in in

(23:02):
Sicily who came to this country. And believe it or not,
it was the the the mob, the mafia so to speak,
who helped a recent newcomers, for example Don Finucci who
was in the Godfather, he was black Hand and they
would leave this imprint of the black hand for either

(23:27):
for Pizzo, for extortion. So it wasn't the movie, but
it was close enough.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
And called himself a guinea pig because he was Italian
and cops went on as pigs, and he said, I'll
be I'll be the guinea pig.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I understand that. And you know the story behind Petrosino.
In fact, I believe in New York there was still
there was a either a park or something that was
named after him. I thank you for your call. It's
a it's a it's an interesting story, especially how the
real story, the real history of organized crime itself, which

(24:05):
is very interesting. How the three aspects, the three demographics
of organized crime, the Sicilians, the Irish and Jews, and
when they came to this country. And what do you
think they all had in common? If you think about this,
all of them Sicilians, not Italians, Sicilians, Irish, Jews knew

(24:30):
what governmental oppression was, the feudal land barons that were
kept down. They didn't have anybody to go to, nobody
to look after, nobody to handle their particular beefs, their
problems in organized crime. There wasn't one who organized crime
then per se. But when it came to this country,

(24:50):
it changed. It's funny the Jews were the first ones
to leave that. There was this book called Tough Jews
it's great from a blue culture to a garage Shapiro
to oh, there's so many really interesting characters, again not
lauding them as good people, but interesting. They pretty much

(25:11):
got out of the biz as soon as possible, followed
by the Irish, who went into police work and government
and various political groups. And the last to stay in
were the Sicilians. And the reason, supposedly the reason is
again because Sicily, by virtue of its nature, had been

(25:34):
taken over. It had been it had been ravaged and
conquered by everyone from the Carthaginians, the Phoenicians, the French.
In fact that Canadians would have probably gone there, and
theoretically Joe Bonano in his book Man of Honor refers

(25:56):
to this story. It's a tad apocryphal, but there's a
story that everybody learns of the hatred the of Sicily Sicilians,
but also the mafia then for the French, and there's
all these little anecdotes. One of them was that during

(26:17):
the war they would sometimes hold up a chickpea and
it's pronounced chechi ceci, but French could not pronounce that,
so they would hold this out and see what is
this and if somebody were to mispronounce it, there's ah,
you're a French dude, and they would kill you on site.
A tad harsh, to be sure, but the story is

(26:41):
in the fourteenth fifteenth century you can always embellish you
to an extent. A young girl was savaged, raped what
have you, by a French. A Sicilian girl was attacked
sexually abused by a French officer or soldier or something
along those lines. They were ready to explode. And the

(27:04):
story also goes that the lieutenant who did this slapped
the father who tried to address this and seek honor. Anyway,
the story goes again most apocryphal, when crazy they say
we're going to fight back, and they had placards, they
had phrases, they had this this this chant the shibbleth

(27:24):
oft the time, and it was morte a la Francia
Italia M A f A I A M A f
I A What am I? M A f I A
morte and it means death to France is Italy's cry.
And that became so they say the word mafia, well

(27:48):
not really, because there was another word in mafioso, which
meant strong, brave. There was an Arab component because there's
so much if you if you look at the infiltration,
the influence of every conceivable uh, demographic and ethnicity and
culture on Sicily, it's wild, the African, the Middle East.

(28:12):
In fact, remember the scene from was The True Crimes,
the one scene between Dennis Hopper and Christopher Walken. Remember
I can't go through it now, but it's very interesting
and anyway, a lot of this is there's a kernel
of truth in it. What's even more interesting is when

(28:35):
you look at the connection between our government and these people.
In other word, mafia really didn't it wasn't really a
big It's not a big word here in Sicily. Oh yeah, absolutely,
but not here. It's not an American term. And after
post World War Two he had named like a Colojuro,

(28:58):
Don Vizzini and sil Farrow and all these guys who
were pretty rough characters. But but this is also interesting,
and this has a perfect analog to what we saw
in Cuba at the time. The mafia had an absolute

(29:18):
detestation for Mussolini and Mussolini's number one, the interrogator, the
torturer in chief was cesare More and this guy was
he would just I mean torture and Basically, it caused
a lot of the mafiosi to leave, to flee, and

(29:41):
they always wanted to come back. They always either to
flee or to become neutralized. Well, world War two comes along,
let's make a deal. Look at Cuba. Look what happened.
You have You have Bautista, who was the friend, the
friend of everybody from Mayor Lansky to you name it.

(30:05):
Even bugsy Cegull at the time says, are you sure
about this? You know we don't know these people. Oh
what are you talking about? We own Cuban. Well you
may owe him now and lo and behold what comes
up later on? That's right Castro and what was the
problem that the mafia had. Of course Castro and anything
they could do to remove Gastro they would do. So

(30:27):
they became part and parcel with OSS later Cia, Operation Mongoose.
It all works together. It's fascinating, Operation Gladio. Remember one thing,
there was some there were some folks in the organized
crime business, Vito Gentlemens who were great patriots, absolutely loved

(30:49):
this country. Many served in World War two.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
And we're believe it or not, staunch. I don't want
to say republican because that's not the term, but very
very patriotic. And during World War Two they said, we
know sicily we can help you, but here's the deal.
After this was done. After this was done, the idea

(31:14):
was that, well, what do we get. We will allow
you to maintain your positions. So the United States government, theoretically,
it is believed, helped install these very people back into
into the power that they enjoyed prior to Mussolini. Oh,
it's it is. It is so interesting the way the

(31:35):
government remember the Normandy, remember the ship that was overtured,
that that that capsize on the West side. They thought
it was saboteurs. It wasn't Joe Sachslonza who ran the
the The docs met with may Or Lansky and then
Lucky Luciano who was in Dana Moore at the time,
and they made a deal with them. They said, listen,
if you can help us get to the bottom of this.

(31:57):
It was it wasn't sabotage at all, but they didn't
want them to think this. So Lucky Luciana says, great,
I'll help you, and we supposedly fix this. Then when
he expected a pardon, they said, oh no, no, no,
we're just gonna we're going to exile you. We're going
to deport you to Caste la Marde, and he goes,
oh no, so he had to leave. He thought it
was a deal. It was Dewey who double crossed him.

(32:19):
Oh it's it is. The level of stories are so
fascinating and one of the one of the last aspects.
You cannot talk about the JFK assassination without understanding the
roles of people like Santo Trafficanti and uh and Carlos
Marcello and others. It was a different world than it

(32:43):
was so powerful. You know that Frank Costello, nobody knew
who he was, Francesco Castilia, they didn't. They thought he
was Irish Costello. He was a he was they loved
him in society. He was just this, this great man
and they didn't know. This is prior to Key Fauver,
prior to the McClellan commission, and with Jaego Hoover. Jaigo

(33:05):
Hoover had no interest whatsoever whatsoever in explaining what was happening.
In fact, many people believe in that particular story that
Roy Kohne, who they say was at the bottom of this,
supposedly has stories or pictures of Jajegar Hoover, either in
address or some compromising position, and they believe later on

(33:27):
that somehow this was the this was the trump card,
pardon the expression that people had. And so when organized
crime came along, Frank Costello, also, by the way, understood
that Hoover was basically a degenerate gambler along with his
girlfriend Clyde Tolsen, and he give him tips on how

(33:48):
to bed or whatever. So when it came to doing
an expose on American organized crime, how can Jaego Hoover say, yes,
we have a problem in this country organized crime. Excuse me,
you're the head of you're the national police chief, so
to speak. Oh so instead he said, well, forget that.
It's communism. Yeah, that's it. Communism, that's the problem. So

(34:10):
it's it's so fascinating, it's I mean, it's history. It's
it didn't really hit the mythic because remember, prior to
Keith ober Proba, prior to the McLeon Commission, nobody knew
anything about this, nobody knew who these people were. Then
later then the godfather came Joe Colombo. It goes on

(34:32):
and on, and it is so interesting and it created
kind of its old own folklore. Let me tell you,
in our country, we have certain certain I'll call them
a folklore to an extent. Though you can argue all
day long whether organized crime is still big. But we

(34:54):
have the American cowboy, We've got the biker, you know,
the the writer type, and we have the mobster. And
this is something that is part of our it's been,
it's been a part of our our love. Nothing captures
nothing captures us. And remember it started with the Godfather.

(35:18):
It started with It was the first time you showed
or they tried to show the upper echelons of it,
not the street level, but the upper echelons, who was
in charge, the stories behind. And one thing about the
Godfather also very very little cussing, very minimal deminimus nudity.
There was the Apolonia scene and Godfather won. I think,

(35:40):
I'm not going to tell you the word, but they
really didn't. How do I say this, They did not
use an It really was I think pretty mild. By
the way, one of the best pieces of trick photography
ever was when Luca Rosie Lenny Montana was Dad in
the Hand at the Edison Hotel and it's it's I mean,

(36:05):
it's it's so interesting. One of the best movies. Do
you know about the interesting interesting fact that when when
Francis Ford Coppola he went through Hell, Charlie Bluehorn and
Bob Evans, these people from Paramount, they were they were horrible.
They wanted Robert Redford and Anthony Quinn and they said no.

(36:26):
And then when they showed him Michael Alba, you know,
they said, you're crazy. He's a midget. You're nuts. So
when they showed him the first dailies, it was his
first scene with Bona Serah, remember from the The Man.
And by the way, uh, Marlon Brando was doing Frank
Costello's voice theoretically, but they didn't know what this was.

(36:50):
And the line was, what did you like this with
the cigarette lighter?

Speaker 5 (36:53):
What is this?

Speaker 1 (36:55):
They never they never saw this before, and Brando had
to guarant he was he was not exactly the famous
Brando he was later on. In any event, Francis Ford
Coppola realized, I'm done with this. I'm through. I mean,
it's gonna be tomorrow. They're gonna just canvas and just

(37:15):
shut it down. So they cut the Salazzo scene with
Alba Terry and Sterling Hayden as another character. When they
saw that this is the paramount as it goes, you
got it. You're in because what you saw is what

(37:35):
al Pacino did his character. You saw him go dark,
because at first it was kind of like a buoyant,
kind of a happy, kind of an innocent sort of
he was really the he was really the powerhouse. But
you saw him go dark, and he was never he
never came back. It is so interesting, It is so

(38:00):
and I'm not saying it's just to create false senses
of complexity, but it's truly that great. Uh, let's go
to Let's go to Paul in Connecticut. Paul, you're on
another side of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 6 (38:14):
Well, good morning, Lionel. When I was young, I got
a tour of the FBI building with my dad and
I was hooked after the g man came out with
a with a machine gun and opened up his suitcase.
That took it out of there and uh, his machine gun.
One of my favorite movies is al Pacino and uh, oh,
I'm trying to think of the name right now.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Oh, that would help.

Speaker 6 (38:38):
Where he's in. He's in Miami as an undercover agent
Donnie Brasco.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, that was so that was a Joe of Stone book.
There was so much that was wrong with that book,
so much.

Speaker 6 (38:54):
I didn't read the book. But why it reminds me
of the Islands and the Bahamas.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
First of all, by the way, that it wasn't really Miami.
A lot of it was in Tampa and the Tampa
area at the time, and most of the Donny Brascal
was here. There's no islands. I don't know what you're
talking about with that. You should read the book. Did
you ever read the book?

Speaker 6 (39:15):
The mob guys down there makes me think of a
bottle of don Terry on nineteen seventy orfore.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Hey, Paul, thank you so much, my friend. I love this.
I'm trying to make I think a critical boy here.
Number one, Please read the book. Please read the book.
Have you read The Godfather? It's incredible. It's one of
the best books ever. And by the way, editorial license
is one thing. Joe Pistone, by the way, who played

(39:43):
Donny Rascal his you know what is sign for him
to befriend Sonny Black and to know they were going
to kill him. You knew he knew. In fact, they
cut they found Sonny Black with his fans cut off,
indicating you introduced him. You you extended your hand to this.

(40:06):
There's a book by a friend of mine, Jack Garcia,
who infiltrated this as well. That that book, I think.
And by the way, Pistone has played that one with
the glasses. I mean, he milked that baby for all
its word. We're still seeing him, we're still listening to him.

(40:28):
But read the book, and the books are very interesting.
Same thing with wise guy Nick Poledgie. This story is
not I could tell you some stories behind the scenes
which I think are even more interesting. Pete on Staten Island,
you're on another side of midnight with Lionel High Lionel.

Speaker 7 (40:45):
You know that movie Pay or Die nineteen sixty with
Ernest O Mine.

Speaker 8 (40:51):
Yes, my cousin played the part.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And are you underwater? I can't hear you?

Speaker 3 (41:01):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (41:02):
Is it any better now? My cousin played sal Almeta.
He played protected with Ernest bag nine. He's the guy
that was in the uh the uh dry cleaners and
he shot the guy because he called them Fatso that
was like one of the biggest parts in the movie.

(41:25):
And my cousin he died in an auto accident a track.
The trailer tipped over onto a p his Volksweg and
he was crushed.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
That's interesting. How we're very into this the life and
times of your of your cousin. It's interesting. Hey, Pete,
I thank you so much, my friend. Please call me again.
Tom and Chicago. You're on another side of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, go on, Linel, good sir.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
All right? I like uh people.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
I think I think people are fascinated with these kind
of stories of the dark side because people is living
a normal life is boring. You know, these guys ain't.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Worried about it's not worried about.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Four one k.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
On the street.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
They're doing strange things, killing people with no consequences and
all that.

Speaker 8 (42:17):
We love it.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
But wait a minute, what about a story about just
a serial killer. It's not the same. There's nothing romantic
about that. There's nothing.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
You can see a story about you know, Ted Bundy.
And also sometimes there are some black ansters who I
think in some respects you know Bumpy what's his name
or what I mean? Those are very interesting too. But
and Irish mob stories, there's something about Italian mob stories.
What is this Explain to me how a woman can

(42:51):
fall in love with the guy on death row who's
a murderer.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Explain that, well, first of all, she's a woman. He
can't help explain them. And uh, these guys, these these
women be like like you say, bikers, drug dealers' know,
they bad guys and still love them.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Well look at you.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, yeah, what I'm talking about here is you. You
ain't gonna go with a hooker and say I'm marry you.
You know, the normal person.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
You'd be surprised today, you'd be surprised, and they may
not be called a hooker person.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, that's the that's the that's the influence of these movies. Though,
that's the influence of these But it goes.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Back even it goes back even more when we had
the Great Train Robbery and McCain's Big a Billy the Kid,
and and Bonnie and Clyde and uh John Dillinger and
you know this is there's something I I think, first
of all, it's interesting Number one. Number two, the difference

(43:57):
between fame and infamy. It's just no, fame, uh does
not really mean good, Infamy doesn't necessarily mean bad. I
don't think we can we can tell one from the other.
But it's but it also tells us.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Go ahead, sir, if in Chicago, al Capone, you know,
is steel like crazy. You know what I'm saying. You like,
he murdered people. He did all these things, and people
still fascinated.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
They got tours.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
But you know what he did. He murdered people that
were in the in the business, so to speak. He
opened up soup kitchens. He was by the way, he
wasn't the first, He wasn't the first flamboyant, but close
to it. This is a guy who became before there
was John Gotti, there was al Capone. And you talk

(44:47):
about living this miserable life to die of tertiary syphilis.
Did you ever see him towards the end of his life,
Oh my god, you could see it. Rabbit. He was
like forty seven years old. You know that he hit
his peak at the age of like twenty six, right, Well,
he was, well, he's got a dope dealer. He was

(45:09):
a little bit different. It was a little bit different time.
He was more of a.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Bootleg now as and now these guys would get money early.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
But you know who the people are now, you know
who the criminals are. Now Ai big tech. Hey listen, Tom,
thank you my friend. The idea of the actual old
time thug hood type. I don't know if this has
any carllary today, and I just don't think it. I
don't know. I don't think it would work necessarily today
eight hundred and eight four eight nine two too too.

(45:38):
We're talking about the greatest mob movies and what is
this thing that humans love about organized crime and the like?
This is Lionel with you on another side of midnight.

(46:32):
Doesn't that do something to you? It affects you this?
I don't think people well always say this about young people.
I don't think they understand what that movie was about.
It was incredible, It absolutely positively was incredible. The effect

(47:00):
it had not so much, not just on the story.
By the way, Mario Pouso got so many things right.
He was a degenerate gambler. So they say his original
book was a Fortunate Pilgrim or something where Don Corleone
was just mentioned in passing. They say it was a
great book, but do yourself a favor. Read The Godfather

(47:22):
and read you'll see different things. Luca Brasi. But they
can explain whenever Mario Puso talks about a sex scene
or any kind of a fight scene. It is so
how do I say this? It is so exquisitely detailed,

(47:45):
to the point where you're wondering, I wonder if this
is a little bit of a statement about him.

Speaker 5 (47:49):
Now.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Anyway, the reason why we the reason why Vintipastori died,
you know, as you know, and people are going to
be of course on YouTube, are on social media acting
like this is the word. And by the way, he's
said he was eighty years old. I didn't know he
was eighty years old. I don't know how old I thought.
I guess it makes sense. But they're going to act

(48:10):
like this was the worst thing in their life. One
in particular, I know, is probably going through every picture.
He's got to say, where do I I've got to
have a picture of him somewhere so I could post
it on Facebook to say, see, look, I knew him,
I stood next to him. I never understood that. It's
kind of ghoulish. It's weird, very very strange. But he

(48:31):
was great and we appreciate them. But watch the reaction
because remember, I get another subdirectory to the story is
the effect that social media has on everything on everything.
It's I could. I wish I could show you the
people that I know who were out of their minds,

(48:52):
who were some of the most I don't want to
say boring people. Okay, I'll say it, boring people, nondescript.
But if you read their Facebook page, you think these
lived the most exciting life. You can imagine the fun,
the excitement, the drinking. It's bizarre. That's that's all I
will say. Our number is eight hundred and eighty four

(49:14):
eight nine two too too. I want to talk more
about this, But also I don't know, and I'm getting
at that age I think where I am with adage
where nothing is good like the old enough bad, and
I make movies like they used to. I don't, But
can you think of anything? Maybe Star Wars, maybe something
that had the effect that The Godfather had, but not

(49:38):
only that from just in terms of organized crime and
law enforcement as well. It was incredible? And why do
we have this focus? Could there be another mob movie
worth its weight? And why they really need to do
one on the Philly Mob, the scarful group. That's the story.

(50:00):
That's another one that's a little bit twisted with a
weird kind of an angle to it. This is line
up with you eight hundred and eighty four eight nine
two two two. I want to do coming up on
another side of midnight. I want to hear from you, howbuddy,

(51:03):
line know with you? This is our number two of
this thing of ours. Eight hundred and eight four eight
nine two two two. This is another side of midnight.
Fitz's Pastori died. He played big, you know. And by
the way, he is not to be confused with little
little Woosy as it were, who was Malanga? And anyway,

(51:27):
there's all this background information and the line I guess
to where he got that name from. Imagine, of all
the names, this is the one you're stuck with. Okay,
fair enough, fair enough. And the question that I continue
to ask is why is it that we as a
society find is fascinating. Take, for example, the movie Scarface.
I think that was one of the dumbest movies ever.

(51:47):
First of all, know a little bit about it that
al Patino. This is the worst Cuban accent I've ever
heard in my life. He's Mexican, he's cheach muddy. Eh So,
hello to my little friend, little friend of a cocoa road.
What is this? This is like a a Chicano.

Speaker 10 (52:10):
What is this?

Speaker 1 (52:11):
It's the worst. And I know, I know of what
I speak. And there's one thing I know is that
Guanito's and that that ain't it. But they went nuts
over that movie. They loved it. Why I couldn't stand
it was stupid f Murray Abrahm. Sometimes you have to

(52:34):
ask the review. But it's the same thing. He's the
bad guy, he's this you know what Miami vite now,
Miami Vice Now. That was important during Florida during the
cocaine years. Oh man, that was That was another story

(52:57):
that was Silicon Valley that changed everything. And that was
kind of like the romanticized version Smugglers, blues Umber, Glen
Fry and and all of this. Uh, there was a
there's a certain degree of kind of like romanticism to that.
It's just it's so it's so interesting why that becomes

(53:21):
the focus of our concern, why that permeates our our
culture and the like. And I also want to tell
you that the that the the in our culture, the
sopranos is just unbe believable.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's also interesting is that in certain parts of Sicily
they have references like like in Corleone. If if you go,
they have pictures and reminiscent of the Godfather. I think,
how courteously you even you're doing this, But if you

(53:58):
really want to get into it, this is check out
the difference between the regular type of mafia that people
talking about and the Kamara and the Raga Da Indraga Da.
This is this is a whole another story. And the
Kamora and Toto Rina and uh uh Provenzano and these

(54:19):
these folks are from another planet. It's I mean, this
is this is who was it when when they go
on the lamb for thirty years, which is ridiculous, but
anyway of course they were. They pay people off, but
this is this had nothing really to do with anything
involving I guess hive living. This was a rough way

(54:48):
to live, I mean a rough way to live. And
it's still bigger than anything you can imagine. And people argue,
all doing what about American Who knows alost about American
organized gram Good luck with that, have a nice day.
Let others fill you in on that. All I know
is there's something about this and there's something so fascinating

(55:09):
and this I love it when when somebody also loves
the affected version of this. Who wants to be I've
known so much this is this is interesting. So many folks,
who are of course of New York origin, who take
on these almost like caricatures. Hey, forget about it. It

(55:31):
goes you're Jewish. I mean, not that that matters, but
you're Argentinian. Why are you acting like this? Because they
love this it it defines something which I'm trying to
get to the core of eight eight four eight nine
two too. To Lulu and Florida, you're on another side

(55:54):
of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 11 (55:55):
Hello, Linel. I love this topic and I love all
why Italian words. Oh well, I'm Italian. I grew up
in New York.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
You're you're Italian American Italian American.

Speaker 11 (56:09):
Yes, but I've always loved observing human behavior as well. Yes,
growing up, I would listen to my dad and my
uncle sitting around the table, pounding on the table talking
about all their friends. They all had these little nicknames,
you know, like Bomb Nickel or Joey the Fish. And

(56:32):
I loved it and I never forgot that. But as
far as why people are so enthralled with the mafia
and the Italians, there is a contrast between the bad
stuff they do and the despicable things. But the culture

(56:53):
itself is beautiful, the language, the music, the food. That
is part of why it's romanticized. I think.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I don't understand.

Speaker 11 (57:09):
Well, yeah, well it doesn't seem like it's not. You
don't put that together with somebody, you know, knocking someone
off or shoot or like in the Godfather. One of
my favorite scenes was the guy that was in bed
I forget his name, and with the horses head. I

(57:32):
mean that.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
You know that story, Well that's do you know that
that was a real horse's head and they got that
horse's head from a I think it was a type
of a of a not a butcher, not not butcher
of co horseman, but somebody who is who is making

(57:57):
processed whatever it was, and it was actually frozen. They
had to use glycerine to make it not tacky. And
John what was his name who played that character, had
to sit in this goop for a while. But it's
interesting to note also when people and I love when
people say it, and either way, I thank you so

(58:20):
much for your call. When people say I'm Italian, and
that's very nice, and you can see I've ever been
in Italy. No, you speak Italian? No, And I don't
want to go into the specifics of what people say.
I've got a friend of mine who claims to speak
fluent Italian and it's unrecognizable. It's not even I don't
even know if it's under what dialect it even it

(58:41):
even follows, it's not even anywhere near it. Is it bronx,
I don't know what it was. There are people who
represent Romans and the idea of the Italian who take
great umbrage at this, and they consider themselves to be
Patrician and almost almost to the point of beyond everything.

(59:02):
So even within the notion of what we call Italian
and Italian American, the same way we do it with
the Irish. The people I know who can't speak Irish
or Gaelic, they never been to Ireland. They have a
last name, they might be a Callahan, but that's it.
But they claim that they are How do I say this,

(59:25):
that they are part of the culture, and perhaps maybe
they are, you know, Sunday pasta with the family. That's great.
It's also kind of an americanization sometimes, which is also
wonderful too. People love the same way people love to
wear a jersey a team. I'm on this team. This
is my team. This, this defines me. I would venture

(59:50):
to say that there are aspects of the American Italian
American culture, if you will, that it would be unrecognizable
in Italy. They wouldn't know what this was. They have
no idea what you're talking about. It is perhaps by
an extended subject. When you talk to Africans about the
notion about being black, if you're in any country where most,

(01:00:15):
if not all, people are black within the continent, I
should say, the black distinction doesn't mean anything. It's presumed.
And what's interesting also to hear how so many African
and Native Africans be careful that people take it the
wrong way. Have nothing to do with American African Americans.

(01:00:39):
They say they don't recognize each other, which is another part.
I love this fascinating, this clannish, this distinction about who
we are, and even within groups of people Dominicans versus
Puerto Ricans, and oh, oh my god, it is. If

(01:01:02):
I met somebody who landed from another planet and said,
let me tell you what we do, it would take
me forever just to explain this. Absolutely, let's go to
uh let's go to David David in New Jersey. You're
on another side of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 12 (01:01:22):
I'm a good morning, great topic, you know, on a
bunch of topics. My great I'm sixty five here, so
my great grandmother. You came here from Sicily, and immediately
everyone was addressed as that we're no longer we're not
Italian Americans, We're American Italians.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Anybody.

Speaker 12 (01:01:40):
That's what she said. You know, they wanted us to
assimilate the word mafia and Sicilian. The word there's a
word maya, maya and that's my daughter.

Speaker 4 (01:01:54):
Wrong.

Speaker 8 (01:01:54):
I'm sorry, wrong, wrong, wrong?

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Can I spell it for you?

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
The word is phelia and this is a this.

Speaker 8 (01:02:02):
Is I'm sorry about that annunciation.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
No, no, no, wait. And this was a reference to
initially the story that I said there was a bit
of apocryphal about the girl who was raped by the
French soldiers. Direct mafiusu is a whenever you hear the ooh,
like bed do bag do pcini do? When you hear
the ooh, that's Sicilian. And in eighteen sixty three there

(01:02:27):
was a play called e Mafiusi de la Vicadia about
prison inmates the word meant strong, bold, bravado, not criminal,
a horse that was mafiuso meant fast and mafia mafia. No,
that's that's not true.

Speaker 12 (01:02:48):
That's I'm sorry. That's so people say that's that when
the hoodlums would come, they would run to the police, mafia, mafia.
They had my daughter, my daughter when we were kids,
Dornentory Gilliana.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
It's okay.

Speaker 12 (01:03:00):
So when you talk about the horse head in the bed,
I always had the great idea. It's like, how come
somebody doesn't make a pillow like that, like a horse
head pillow, that would be a great nomalty.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
You have on that a wit about you that is
contagious and it's dangerous, and I hope you always treated carefully,
thank you, David. I mean that you are a witch.
That is scary.

Speaker 12 (01:03:23):
And don't forget the Godfather about drugs, because it was
very true when Sonny said that if we don't get
into what somebody can, and they said it bring down
too much heat. That is what wrecked organized crime. And
you know it really was from the seventies.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Thank you, thank you very much. Part of it, part
of that's true, part of it's not. One of the
biggest jokes is how they say, oh no, we got
to say out of drugs sicily from Turkey, from the
from theh when the heroin was processed. Are you kidding me?

(01:04:00):
There's one thing which, unfortunately, and I hate to say this,
but well, I don't hate to say it. I don't
know why I say I hate to say it. If
you are a criminal, you say we must do things
that make us the most profit. We may not necessarily

(01:04:21):
suffer ititionally, but one of our underlings what destroyed if
you want to say that organized crime was the Rico Statute,
not drugs. Drugs were fine. I'm not going to mention
the names, but they were h alading a line up

(01:05:50):
with you eight hundred eight four eight nine two two
two eight hundred eight four eight nine two two two.
If you've just tuned in, it's one of the I
just love aspects of human behavior and how we have these.
I guess this interest artistically in the dirty, the underbelly,

(01:06:15):
the taxi driver, degenerates, killers, organized crime, and how some
things don't make I don't make it. I still say
that The Westies TJ. English is one of the most
fascinating stories, completely and totally worth note and the stories

(01:06:41):
I've heard from people from the great Mike Shean and
who was a great New York City ex retired cop
on absolute treasure, Joe Coffee. These were these were people
who sounded like cops, looked like cops, acted like cops.
They just they had a sound to them. With all

(01:07:02):
due respect to people who are enjoying the benefits of
diversity and a kind of a a more of a
heterogy genius form of police, I like cops who sounded
like cops, looked like cops. The whole Popeye Doyle, Eddie Egan,
you know that sort of thing. Well, look at look

(01:07:23):
at this, Look at the notion of the French connection.
The French Connection was of course about Popeye Doyle theoretically.
But Gene Hackman was a scoundrel. He was a bad guy.
But who was like off Kojak was sort of He
was a rough and tumble guy, a good guy. But

(01:07:44):
nobody wants to see Adam twelve, Joe Friday, nobody, nobody,
nobody wants to see it. But the best people in
the world today, the people who were the most absolutely
completely complete devoid of any kind of humanity, And that
is of course Silicon Valley, and what you're also going

(01:08:06):
to be seeing is way till this is kind of
a side here. Wait to see what happens to AI
fortunes and hedge funds that are going to just collapse.
There's something to be said, and we never we never
really learn.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
So to speak.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
One could argue, and this might be premature, but you
have to have something that you can explain. And I
never forget what Warren Buffett said. He says, I don't
understand this. He was talking about crypto. Also, I don't
want to understand this. But as for another story eight
hundred and eight four eight nine two too too. I
think there's something also to be said. It's fascinating about
people who represent Again, when somebody is evil, they are

(01:08:53):
famous for being evil. And the difference between fame and
infamy are identical. They're the same thing. What's the difference?
Remember in the old days, this is on a much
minor level. When the Stones came along and the and
the the the animals. Compared to the Beatles, the Beatles

(01:09:15):
were considered clean cut, clean cut, my arse. They were
probably worse. But it's the perception of things. It's the way,
the way we think there's all this again, this lore
of organized crime today. And what's also fascinating, what's really interesting,

(01:09:38):
and I guess it's kind of oxymoronic, how there are
so many people making doing so many well, doing so well,
whether one were they on social media by talking about
something which theoretically is a secret society, it's his secret
where nobody knows anything. I remember one time that I

(01:10:03):
was watching a special on the Inragada and the Camora,
but in Draga that might be bigger than anything else.
And that's, by the way, that's based on family clans.
And they went to one particular city which was the heartbeat,
the actual heartbeat, the epicenter of this particular iteration of

(01:10:26):
whatever you want to call it, and nobody knew anything.
They said nothing. There was no such thing as a
want to be nobody. You know what's funny, Intel's got
to be the easiest thing in the world. I have
heard so many people say, you see that guy, he's
with so and so, And I said, first of all,

(01:10:46):
do you know that for sure? Yeah? Does he know
you're saying that? Because, as you know, being a member
of certain organizations is by in and of itself a crime.
This is what Rico is. Are you sure you were
to say that? Do you really know? How do you
know these things? And then there are other people who

(01:11:07):
love to wear it because there's something to be said,
and it has to do with culture and where you're
from and how you think the same thing happened, interestingly enough,
when we young people and white kids in particular, all
of a sudden took off of this notion of the
crips and the bloods and all this other kind of stuff.
All of a sudden, they just loved this notion of

(01:11:34):
sounding black at when I say it's not you know
what I mean, being a part of gang And I'm
thinking you're from Madison, Wisconsin, your name is Rusty. What
are you talking about? But it became so so unmistakable.
Why is that? Why? What's the thing? What was it

(01:11:56):
that lured them about it? And I'm telling you it
goes to show you a little bit about how we think.
And by the way, going back again, because there's so
many aspects to this. We don't have appointment TV. Now
we have binge watching. We have somebody who says, hey,
I'm gonna I'm gonna watch you know, the new episode
or the new season of such and such dropped this season,

(01:12:21):
we had to do it piecemeal. Every week. You didn't
know what was going to happen, and many times they
didn't either. Past story said, I believe that he would
get the script and immediately go and see whether his
character was in it, who was whacked, who was gone,
who was not there anymore? And also there's something to

(01:12:41):
be said after the fact, after after the loving is gone,
so to speak, when you see like dommic Kee Andesy
and others there were there by the way, it's a
very interesting and very nice man. But later on they're
trying their best to kind of work things through. In
any of that, our numbers eight hundred and eight four
eight nine two to eight hundred eight four eight nine

(01:13:01):
two two two. And I'll tell you what, I would
really love a code. I would just oh my kingdom
for a code, mister Lee. I would do everything in
my power if I could too, perhaps maybe just I
love I love. We're not so subtle. We speak to
each other in codes regarding codes eight hundred eight four

(01:13:26):
eight nine two two too. And also, I don't think
there's going to be another iteration ever of the Godfather again.
You can't have that. It just willever happen. And it's
something that the youngsters, frankly, will never understand because that
was a once in a lifetime thing. I don't remember

(01:13:46):
something so defining not only a genre, but a new
kind of a filmmaker and the like. It is incredible.
Eight hundred eight four eight nine two two too. Let's
go back at the phonees, back of the fun with
your thoughts and comments and in regarding everything under the sun. Yeah,
let me go, let me see is money there we go,

(01:14:09):
Let's go to if we could. Let's go to Don
on Long Island. Don, you're on another side of Midnight
with Lionel. Don once, Don twice. Don's out of there.
Tom and New Jersey. Tom, you're on another side of
Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 8 (01:14:30):
Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Hello, that's what I said. That's what I said, Tom myself.
Let's go to Tom and New Jersey And you said
this this is Tom, Tom, How are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Good Lionel. Fantastic show tonight. You have more than a
process full of lounge about this stuff. But it's just
a great show. I want to just comment on two things.
The Godfather was a cultural phenomenon, in my opinion, one
of the ten best movies of all time, beyond.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Any time, absolutely, and The Godfather.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
Was kind of like The Godfather to the Sopranos if
you think about it. And I didn't watch the Socranos
until COVID. But in any event, here's where I called
I had a personal experience with a mob guy, pretty
serious mob guy back in because it was eighty eight
or eighty nine, me and a buddy. My buddy owned

(01:15:22):
a small piece of the nets the bes ketball team.
He says, MESA playing the Dodgers tonight, let's go over
to say stadium. I know, Tomy Lasorda. We'd get in
the locker blah blah blah. So we did the whole thing,
going to locker in after the game and we're chit
chatting with some players and with Lasorda. So Lasorda comes

(01:15:42):
out to dinner with us, and he brings a player,
Bill Russell. We were already with the mayor of Jersey City,
Jerry McCann, and Lasorda. There was six of us. So
we pull up. We just were going to go to
like Carnegie Leo's right across the street from Carnegie Hall,
so the car is parked a the park. Lasorta takes

(01:16:05):
a call from somebody on a Giant's who says, you know,
they're waiting for you with this restaurant. So we go
uptown and this was an Italian place, but it was
kind of like in Germantown, about like York Avenue in
about ninetieth ninety fifth up around the are So we go.
We go in and it's a fabulous place. I mean,

(01:16:26):
it's really richly decorated without being severe. It's a very
Upclaars restaurant. The six of us we go through the
bar area and we sit down. Nobody else is in
the restaurant, no one. We sit down. I'm sitting directly
next to Lasorta. He's at the head of the table
and I'm immediately to his right. All of a sudden,

(01:16:48):
you know, we have a drink or two to chatting,
and all of a sudden, these two big guys, two big,
big guys like Andre the giant type guys with jackets on.
But they come in and they stand on either side
of the door, gms, and they're looking around. All of
a sudden, who comes in, John Dotty Lasorda. I had

(01:17:12):
my back to him. Lasorta sees him and he says
to me, He goes, oh shit, look, looker's here.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Yeah, you can't for you to watch your language, sir,
this is a family show and children.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
Yes, I apologize for that indeed. So he comes over
and Lasorda was really nervous. He called them Charlie Dott.
He said to them, Tommy, you cost me a few
bucks tonight. He goes, well, Charlie, I really you know.
So they chitchat, but Dotty I turn around and I'm going,

(01:17:44):
Holy Toledo, I can't believe this is a guy that's
killed a million people, the whole Sparks thing. He's already
been on trial once or twice in New York. And
I got to tell you, honestly, the hair on the
back of my neck was dand enough. I never saw
a better looking man any day in my life than

(01:18:06):
that guy. And the guy was a maculate. He was
a great looking guy and a really good conversation conversationalist.
He's talking all around it. He's talking about everything, baseball, politics.
Somebody brought up his traveler or they said, you know, uh,
I forgot his lawyer's cutler. Well you know he wouldn't.

(01:18:27):
He wouldn't be my lawyer if I didn't think he
was the best. That was all he said about that.
So he goes all around the table, and I know
what everybody's thinking. They're thinks are the same thing I
am thinking. Is somebody going to come in here and
let us have it. We're going to be like collateral damage.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Why would you think that?

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Pardon me?

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Why would you think that?

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
Well, because it was a pretty well known fact that
he was kind of a merciless feller.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Yeah, but why but this is this one? I mean,
just knowing a little bit about out, a little bit
about how these individuals work, I think he is a
very wise man. Why would he? I know it's easy
at the moment your brain perhaps it's not thinking. But
first of all, why would he want to go in
be seen? He leaves and then there's a massacre. It's

(01:19:19):
that you were there five minutes. It doesn't make any sense,
But I thank you for your call. I will tell you.
I think if you speak of one thing, there was
a series in which he was because we never heard
him speak. I never met the man, have no idea,
and he was speaking. I believe it was one of
those jail recordings. He was either talking to his daughter,

(01:19:41):
his grandson, his son, or somebody, and to hear him
speak it is far more I think, literate, and far
more expansive in terms of ideas then one would think,
because you never the worst thing you do in listening
to listen to a wire tap, I hear the same
wire drop over and over again. It's like, I got it,

(01:20:02):
I got it, I got it. But there's something that's
very interesting. Let me put it to you this way. Take
levels of fame. Okay, you can take a rock store.
If Mick Jagger walks in and you can say, Wow,
that's Mick Jagger, you feel elated. Let me tell you something,

(01:20:56):
Bill Lee, I don't know how you do it. You know,
we're debating whether the end of the Sopranos was a
good idea. I think it was genius and represents it
in many respects. My wife and I drive by Holston's
all the time. That of course, was that final scene,

(01:21:16):
and I remember that time this came on, thinking to myself,
this is just this was the end the finale. By
the way, let me just say something very quickly, speaking
of organized crime, Let's just let's let's let's call it
organized crime being Elsie Lacos and Ostro or mafia, whatever

(01:21:39):
you want to call it. The life what really killed it?
And I'm not saying it's gone. I'm not making any
judgment about that. Nothing ever goes away. But but there
is a significant difference in what it used to be.
First of all, was racketeering. The Rico statue. This this
allowed prosecutors to to target entire end enterprises and their leadership,

(01:22:04):
not just individual crimes. It changed everybody. This this is
Robert Blakey next WITSEC witness protection, immunity safety, encouraging people
to to uh to break Omerta, you know that. That
that's that was huge, and also surveillance, undercover ops, the

(01:22:28):
likes of which you've never seen before. But there's also
some things too. There was there's neighborhood assimilation. You know,
younger generations of Italian Americans, you know, they assimilated into
broader you know, societies, kind of reducing traditional local recruitment,
so to speak. It's a way of life. If you're
raising this your family and your cousins and your brothers

(01:22:50):
and your neighbors, it's it's something that how can you
not want to be a part of something that you've
known since day one? But if that landscape has changed,
the chance for recruitment and the likelihood decreases well. And
also there's changes in labor business, the decline of traditional

(01:23:11):
labor unions, the rise of corporate consolidation. It dried up,
this classic extortion racketeering changed everything, but surveillance more than
anything else. Do you know that everything has changed so drastic.
Let me give you another example. And I was going

(01:23:33):
to mention this perhaps maybe not for the first time
in a long time, we're talking about reinstituting the draft
now the president and everybody is saying, oh no, no, no, no, no,
that's not going to happen. Well, I don't know. For
the first time, they're talking about reupping it this time.

(01:23:55):
This time, there's no draft card. You don't go in
to the post office, you don't register. You are registered.
It's done for you. We know where you are, we
will sign you up. Our cells changes everything, It changes

(01:24:18):
totally everything. And if you look at what's happening with drugs,
the proliferation of drugs right now, it's Mexico. Organized crime
in many respects is on the level of Mexican cartels.
Another thing too, which is interesting. Right after the fall

(01:24:40):
of the Soviet Union, you saw a proliferation of other groups,
Russian mobs, Albanians and others, but Russian mobs in particular.
One detective noted one time he says he knew something
was different when he sees these folks under the typical
you know, the Russian types, and they were playing chess.

(01:25:02):
These were educated people from a different mindset. And when
you also throw in other things like Chinese trias and
Japanese and others, it changes things differently. So everybody has
different iterations of organized crime. It's been affected differently by

(01:25:22):
different law enforcement. But when it comes to what is romantic,
what we want to watch on TV, what people have loved,
Oh no, classic American organized crime. Let's face it, that's
what people find fascinating and that reiterate and perseverate, perhaps

(01:25:44):
and perorate this question. Why the third the final hour
coming up on another side of midnight with all I know?

(01:26:45):
How about in line with you? This is the third
the final hour of this thing of ours numbers eight
hundred and eighty four eight nine two two two, changing
the course of this discussion just a little bit. I
think I would be remiss if I didn't bring this up,
because when I read this this week and I thought,
oh my god, this can't be you see, my friends,

(01:27:08):
for more than half a century, Americans have lived with
an assumption so deeply embedded in the culture that most
people barely think anything about it. And the idea was
that if you served in the United States military, you volunteered.

(01:27:32):
Now that assumption has not changed, yet something else, unquestionably has.
The machinery of the American military draft is being modernized,
but you're being told no, no, no, no, don't worry
about it. Don't worry about it. It's not what you think.

(01:27:52):
And whenever Washington starts rebuilding machinery, it insists it has
no immediate intention of using reasonable people or anything, and
it has a lot of folks saying, well, what's this about.
Beginning in December of twenty twenty six, the Selective Service

(01:28:16):
system is scheduled to automatically register eligible men, rather than
depending upon young men registering themselves, and that change was
enacted through the Fiscal twenty twenty six National Defense Authorization Act,
signed by President Trump in December twenty twenty five, Selective

(01:28:43):
Service says it will use federal data sources to identify
and register automatically eligible men. I understand precisely what this
means and what it does not mean. Tration is not conscription.
There is no active military draft in the United States today.

(01:29:09):
Congress cannot suddenly discover that your twenty year old has
been shipped to basic training because somebody pushed a button
at Selective Service. Doesn't work like that now under the
existing system. Actually restarting induction would require Congress to change
the law to authorize a draft and the President to

(01:29:31):
approve it. Selective Service itself expressly rather says this, but
this does not make the modernization aspect of this revelopment.
See's quite the opposite. You see the Daily Caller this
one particular article reported Friday that Selective Service is seeking

(01:29:55):
a new digital simulation capable of recreating a full mobilization
pipeline running different scenarios. Now, listen to this examining how
conscription would operate in the digital age, and the agency,
by the way, is also modernizing legacy conscription applications and

(01:30:17):
implementing automatic registration. Why Well, the answer is very simple,
and it's understandable readiness. See a nation, they argue, maintains
fire extinguishers without planning to burn down the building, and
the United States maintains nuclear weapons it desperately hopes it

(01:30:38):
never has to use. Governments prepare, of course, contingency systems.
But the thing is you and I and others the
same way. In a minute. Are we even talking about
the possibility of a draft? Many have said for the

(01:30:58):
longest time, Charlie Wrangle and others said that the only
reason to if you want to change people, if you
want to stop the utilization or the expenditure of money,
is for war institute or draft, and everything will change.
I just want to throw that one in there, because
people are talking about it, and if you read the
Military Times and a lot of other people, they're very

(01:31:20):
alarmed by this. Are you going to hear this on
conventional cable news shows? No? Why? Well, why do you think?
Why would they do anything to alarm you. The whole
idea of this is to get it in place and
then one day, if all of a sudden they need
you is, hey, guess what we're going to implement this now?

(01:31:41):
How we've been running tests, and we've been running programs
without your knowledge. In any event, I just wanted to
mention that let's go back at the phones and back
of the fund and back to this fascining subject about
our collective psyche terry in New Jersey terry. On another
side of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 8 (01:32:03):
Linel. The American people are trendy and starstruck. That's why
you see a lot of people who are fascinated and
all types of personality types attracted to celebrities or infamous
people regardless. But I just think it's basically from Afar.
I mean, you do have women writing love letters to

(01:32:24):
psychotic killers in prison, but they themselves would not go
into prison to hang out there and meet them. They
write letters, just like if women are attracted to psycho killers,
you won't see poor girls dull themselves up and head
into a high crime neighborhood to meet, you know, psychotic killers.
They'll keep this.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
No, no, not in that respect, But the number of
women who do go and who are groupies at prisons,
you'd be surprised. Now let me ask you something. The
point is, why does infamy attract people but not, for example,
the best physicists or the best heart surgeon or somebody
who just does something notable. Why isn't that fame attractive?

Speaker 8 (01:33:09):
Well, that is definitely very attractive. I mean most women
are attracted to that. There's just a small percentage I
believe it's a small percentage of women who are attracted
to people who are infamous, killers, crazy.

Speaker 13 (01:33:23):
Maybe they really are attracted to it, or maybe them
a very naive and gullible they feel they can change
a psycho killer, which we know they can't do with like, maybe.

Speaker 8 (01:33:34):
They feel they can and they're attracted to this and people, you.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Know you're way you're not answering the question with all
due respect. You're just saying, well, there are people, and
they're young people, and they're gullible and they're attracted. But
why explain to me what is sexy about somebody who's
killed people before, or who is on trial for killing,
or somebody who's a gangster. You haven't explained that. Why
what is it?

Speaker 8 (01:33:59):
I will tell you, to a normal person that would
not be attracted to that.

Speaker 5 (01:34:03):
A person who is.

Speaker 8 (01:34:03):
Awful, something's wrong with them mentally, will be and could
be attracted to that type of person. Why there is
something wrong? Why? Because there's something wrong with them.

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
I'm trying to ask you to tell me what is
wrong with them. For example, if somebody was a baby
killer or somebody who, let's say, was, you know, tortured
animals or something, I don't think that would get their attention.
Some killers, you have to explain why is that attractive?

(01:34:37):
Not I don't think there's something wrong with them at all.
Why do you think that people prefer movies about sometimes
people gangsters or killers or criminals. It's not just people
who are sexually attractive.

Speaker 8 (01:34:49):
Why because people you told them about two different things.
People were fascinated through through the scope of I want
to see a movie, I want to read a and
then it's comparing people. Maybe these women think these guys
are innocent, maybe they can change them. Maybe they just
are attracted to a psycho killer. There's something wrong with

(01:35:11):
these people. There's something wrong with these women who are
attracted to them. Then you've got to get the doctors
or psychiatrists are out there to figure out what's going on.
But they are off.

Speaker 3 (01:35:21):
Now.

Speaker 8 (01:35:22):
A lot of them could pass off as a regular
person in society and create all kinds of habits because
they maybe have a deep seated hatred of the average person,
and they cause trouble for people too. They could operate
that way, but they are attracted to these individuals. And
it's not just Luigi, Luigi Ligioni wherever his name is.
They're not just attractive him. Does all of them get

(01:35:43):
led is term of the high profile crazies.

Speaker 4 (01:35:48):
Jerry, I thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
I thank you so very much. I appreciate your call.
Thank you calling me again. But that didn't answer anything.
I'm just saying that's just pointed out and told me
what I already new. And are they really off? Are
they really off? They're not crazy. See, that's what we
love to say in this country, that people are crazy,

(01:36:12):
that people are demented, that people that there's something wrong
with them. Always, it never ceases to amaze me. I
don't think there's necessarily something wrong with them. Let's go
to a Let's go to a David in Manhattan. David,
you're on another side of midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
I think it's good to hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Okay that David'll David from Manhattan. Next, go ahead, David
talk to me, sir. Oh, there we go, David and Manhattan. David,
you're on another side of midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 5 (01:36:43):
That's me. Okay. So back in the seventies, I work
with a company that you should do instillations of custom
made furniture. And we had this piece and it was
being put into the Gulf and Western building up on
fifteen nine Street. Oh yeah, oh yes. And the way
it worked was unbelievable. Even though they had big doors,

(01:37:04):
we couldn't bring it in. They had a special machine
with suction cups that they put onto the glass. They
would take the glass off and put it to the side,
and they had they would come out with a forklift
and pick up a palette, lift it up and hand
it off to another palette another forklift that was inside
the building. Anyway, we put our stuff on a pallette

(01:37:27):
and this was like I had a little bag with tools,
and I'm waiting and I'm waiting for ahold this to
go on. I go, I'm gonna make put my bag
up and just walk through the door. So I pick
up my bag. All of a sudden, I hear this gurgling,
low voice say put that effing bag down, or I'm
gonna stop this whole damn operation. I turn around, and

(01:37:51):
there's no other way to describe it this short little
gorilla and the most fabulous gorgeous suit I've ever seen.
And he's dripping any gold, gold change. Every finger on
him is gold and I couldn't believe it. And my
boss goes to put it down. Put it down, put

(01:38:12):
it down. I put it down. They continue this operation.
He's watching us like a hawk. And it goes on
and we do our work and we have to leave.
We have to go through the same process again. We
can't walk out through the door. We got to put
our stuff onto the palette, and again this forklift picks

(01:38:33):
it up and puts it outside and we walked through
the doors. It was like so controlled by organized crime.
You couldn't do a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
Then what was you got to explain? People are listening
now and they're saying, I don't understand.

Speaker 5 (01:38:51):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
What was What did an organize do? What was controlled this?

Speaker 5 (01:38:56):
This gentleman basically was showing you that he was in
charge and his what type of gentleman? You didn't question him?
He ran the operation. I guess he oversaw the operation
for the the Gulf and Western Building.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
What were you doing that was objectionable to him?

Speaker 5 (01:39:19):
Picking up the piece of my bag and bringing it
through the door.

Speaker 8 (01:39:24):
Why was.

Speaker 5 (01:39:29):
Because everything has to be done on his terms. His
terms were the furniture as well as all the tools
were considered. I guess part of the work.

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
And the work now, was he a somebody in this office?
Was he part of labor?

Speaker 5 (01:39:45):
Was he came out? I guess he was part of label.
He just came out of nowhere. And all the people
there that were like, you know, handling the uh, the
walklift and all this, they listened to him. You did
what he said.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Now, I'm gonna ask a stupid question. How do you
know this was organized crime and not somebody with a
great suit.

Speaker 8 (01:40:07):
Who was just a tough guy.

Speaker 5 (01:40:09):
Well, I guess the look of him, the way he spoke,
you know, the whole thing. It just reeked of Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
It's interesting. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I thank
you for your call. I had a friend of mine
years ago who told me he had no idea. It
came from Florida and he was part of it. He
was into a some kind of a I don't know
what it was. It was some electronics show where some
people's gonna and he was at the Javit Center and
he explained to me, says he didn't know he moved something, changed,

(01:40:40):
did something without getting approval or having some approved version
of an individual do whatever they were told to do.
And he was immediately visited by somebody who was most persuasive,
who said, in a very nice way, we would prefer
that you use our assistance to accomplish something as simple

(01:41:04):
as either changing a light bulb, moving a sign, anything.
And he immediately said, oh, oh, I get it, it's
that simple. Eight hundred and eighty four eight nine two
two two. What about another draft? You think we're we're
going to do that? Oh, you can bet on it.
More coming up on the other on another side of

(01:41:25):
Midnight with the Lionel alrighty a ligne know with you

(01:42:02):
eight hundred and eight four eight nine two two two
eight hundred eight for eight nine two two two. You
know there, I was saying. After The Godfather, the movie,
it was reported that people members supposedly of organizations dressed differently.

(01:42:25):
Restaurants all of a sudden looked looked for folks to
frequent theirs. It became it became overnights, almost like a
badge of honor, like well, you know, the boys like
this really yes, whereas before you would say, oh no,

(01:42:46):
this is going to ruin our reputation. It changed everything
immediately and it created the wanna be, the wanna be,
the poser, the synthetic version, when all of a sudden,
forget about it became I mean everybody to the point

(01:43:07):
where it got to be a little bit much just
like during things when gangster raps started, young kids name
Rusty from Sheboy and all of a sudden are referring
to my end and they say what.

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
What you know?

Speaker 1 (01:43:22):
There were gang members and they were using various urban
and gang colloquialisms and their red haired, freckle face. You know, Rusty,
it's just oh you're a gangster, okay, oh gangsta Gangsta.
Let's go back to the phones, back to what I
call fun Pamela in New Jersey or on another side

(01:43:45):
of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 10 (01:43:48):
The organized criminals come in many different forms and backgrounds.
For really, since when I taught in the high school,
there was a particular group that came from Russia and
they were members, and through the grapevine we heard that
the Russian teacher was so afraid of them that she quit.
They obviously threatened her, and I had a reputootin for

(01:44:11):
not taking fools lightly, and I was very good at
my job with some rough characters and special ed and behaviorally.
So anyway, I found myself one day in a desiliate
part of the building and this group came in my
atmosphere and they were obviously speaking Russian, so I was like, ooh,

(01:44:33):
this must be the group they're talking about. So, you know,
it's so huge that I didn't have a run in
with them until then. And one of the members started
mocking me just because I was there, and so all
of a sudden, the who appeared to be the leader
said in English, leave her alone, and he gave me

(01:44:53):
a thumbs up that she's all right. So apparently my
reputation for not taking fools lightly in the administration because
there were certain things going on where I made sort
of public, let's say, not a performance, but my feelings
known as to administrator or they sadly, and they liked

(01:45:16):
the power, they liked that I had strength, and they.

Speaker 1 (01:45:20):
Just liked you or they or they just liked you
for no reason other than just just liking you. You know,
it's funny you say that there are people, how do
I say this in some of these groups, not just
typical organized crime, but others as well. Sometimes the women,

(01:45:43):
the wives, the girlfriends, the or as they say on TV, goomar,
which is just my skin crawls when I hear that,
they are oftentimes sometimes worse than anything in the organization themselves,
because just because they are not a member of this
does not mean they are completely and not at all

(01:46:05):
not verse with what's going on. They know precisely what's happening,
and they're sometimes more vicious, if you will, than others.
But just because they're a woman, it means nothing. It
just it means nothing. But in every or in every
group of people, there are people the first ones who say,
how can I exist outside of the law. But what

(01:46:27):
I wanted to say was in the prototypical Italian American
that we talk about now, it started out of necessity
in Sicily, because the only people they had to go
to for meeting out justice or judicating wrong, you know,
problems is the inmo you know, the man of honor,

(01:46:51):
the guy who literally was like a village elder. And
when they came here, these the same folks realize, you know,
what we might be able to implement this. First of all,
it us, like we said, the Black Hand, this is
kind of this extortionist group. But then it came here
and the same folks from other countries who were afraid

(01:47:12):
of deportation or whatever, they also turn to these folks,
which is what they're used to. So it started kind
of by necessity, and then later on as people realize
they can kind of beat the system. And by the way, Pamela,
I appreciate that, thank you for calling me. Call me again.
There is nothing more organized and more criminal than government.

(01:47:34):
Absolutely positively. You want to talk about gangsters, let me
tell you something. None of these people, not Vinnie Ugotz
or whoever these people, can get us into war. None
of these people can be involved in serious weaponshipping and
changing the course of human development. Who can get us

(01:48:00):
involved in in ventures that are just stupid where we're innocent.
People could be killed in a war that nobody wants.
Did ultimate gangsters, the ultimate real gangsters are are politicians,
without a doubt. Lucas in New Jersey, Lucas, you're on
another side of midnightwood line.

Speaker 7 (01:48:22):
Yeah, he lionel uh talking about the mob. I got
something of my friends fail he wan't infiltraded the mob
if you will. Uh he what it was actually fail? Well,
I say infiltrated, I may use that little liberally.

Speaker 4 (01:48:37):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:48:38):
He was sad a friend of mine. I'll tell you
this story. Uh he told me this at a bar.
I don't mention that to cast doubt on the story.
I think this is why he told me in the
first place. But I think i'll repeat it.

Speaker 5 (01:48:51):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:48:52):
He was following a thread led him to social social club,
and I believe it was in Queen's and it was
maybe the early eighties. He was around thirty two, thirty
three years old and he'd been following a thread. And Sell,
what is a thread?

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
What does that mean? Following a thread? What does that mean?

Speaker 7 (01:49:10):
Well, well, you never knew where it started or where
it ended, you know, you just it was. It was
just a thread that he was pulling at for a while.
On this particular thread led him.

Speaker 1 (01:49:19):
To this What does that mean? Excuse me back up
a little bit. I understand the imagery. What did he do? Precisely?

Speaker 7 (01:49:26):
And he was not law enforcement, He was not a journalist.
He was he was just a citizen. He was he
was He became convinced if there were a series of observations.
I'm not going to get into this observation.

Speaker 1 (01:49:36):
No, no, no, wait wait no, no, no, I'm curious
he became aware of what that there were organized criminals available,
or that he he wanted to independently infiltrate them. I
don't understand. Tell me what he did? Well, according to much.

Speaker 7 (01:49:50):
Well, what he told me was that something was happening
in that club that connected to something larger, and he
decided the only way to understand it was to go inside.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
That's what I how, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm dense.
How would he know what was going in a club
that he was not a member of.

Speaker 7 (01:50:08):
Well, you know, Shal was not a reasonable person.

Speaker 10 (01:50:10):
He was.

Speaker 7 (01:50:10):
He arrived at a different conclusion through what he considered
airtight logic, But he was not a reasonable guy. So
I don't know, really understand it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:18):
So he decides on his own. He says, there is
this organ there is this social club or this whatever
it is, And he says, I think there's something the
fairy is going on there. And I, as a private citizen,
not law enforcement, not as a journalist, but as a
private citizen, am going to infiltrate this note, this club,

(01:50:40):
this private club of which I am not a member,
and I'm going to go in independently and get to
the bottom of something which I suspect to be going
on as a private citizen. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 (01:50:51):
You got it?

Speaker 7 (01:50:52):
But when I say what does he uts? You could
say that Lionel, Well, I'll play what happened when he
went into he went to First, he went to a
stript store. I think it was in bay Ridge. He
bought a suit for this occasion. Now that he wasn't
a nice suit. I think that sale once told me
he had a he had a he had a theory.
He explained this to me once the right suit in

(01:51:12):
the right neighbor, he said, he communicates a specific set
of information about a man. So he wanted to get
a certain suit. I think it was. I think he
paid eleven dollars in the stript store, and it conveyed
exactly what he wanted to convey.

Speaker 6 (01:51:25):
What hen.

Speaker 7 (01:51:27):
It was well made, but it wasn't new, and it
was it was the kind of suit that said, like,
you know, I don't shop meself, but I like my stuff.
So he paid eleven dollars. He also bought a newspaper,
and you love this Lionel. He told me that a man,
a man waiting summer with a folded newspaper is a
man with no word. It's with somewhere to be. A

(01:51:48):
man reading a newspaper is a man with nowhere to be.
I think, I think you'd like that.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:51:53):
Well, he walks into the club, and he was Tuesday afternoon,
and he is in the afternoon, he said, And I
want to note that he spoken to Italian by the
way to speak any Italian. But he just sat down
there at the bar, and he looked vaguely Mediterranean. So
I suppose he passed.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
And he walked into a private social club and sat
quote sat down at the bar, and he would have
been immediately recognized as not being a member. Well, how
long was he there before he was escorted up?

Speaker 7 (01:52:26):
Well, he wasn't discorted out. He sits down at the
bar and there are four men in the club at
the time, tour playing cards, one was watching television, and
the guy behind the bar looks at sal you know,
he looks at him. I think the way you look
at a thing that appeared somewhere, or things shouldn't be
And the bartender said something to him an Italian. So
Stal nods and that's it. That's his entire response. He

(01:52:48):
nods with He was a very specific kind of nod,
like he was confirming something rather than.

Speaker 1 (01:52:54):
Okay, I'm curious. Let's cut to the chase. What happened?
When did they kill your friend?

Speaker 7 (01:53:00):
Hey, it didn't kill him at all. The two men
playing cards, they'd not looked up. The man watching television
didn't look up either, and the bartender didn't even ask
him his name or his business. Sal was just sitting
there an eleven dollars suit with his Folton newspaper.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
And this story is this is this is this is laborious.
What was the conclusion? Let's jump to the end of
the story.

Speaker 8 (01:53:21):
What happened?

Speaker 7 (01:53:22):
So, what happened was that I got a man. A
different man came there from the back, a different, different
caliber of man. Sala called him many.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
So what happened? Please just tell me, I beg you,
just what happened?

Speaker 7 (01:53:32):
He sets me to sell an Italian? Then sell, and
what happened?

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
And what happened?

Speaker 7 (01:53:39):
So he said something in Italian. Sell, respond I'm waiting on.
Sala responded, I'm waiting on Thursday, and the man not.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
Okay, And I'm begging you. You're a very nice man.
I appreciate this. I am so tired of this story.
Tell me the punchline jump all the way to the
end of the story. So, therefore, what happened the end
of the story. Not somebody came in. He was wearing
a jacket, he put the paper down, he looked up,

(01:54:09):
he had a drink. No, what happened. What was the
last part of the story.

Speaker 7 (01:54:13):
Tell me the end of the story is that sal
left the bar having not been recognized as an impostor,
and he came back to naxt day and the bar
was closed. It was closed the very next day.

Speaker 1 (01:54:26):
You put me through this for that story. Thank you
very much, Lucas, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Not really, my god, I'm trying. I'm thinking to myself,
am I being set up? This is the worst story ever,
With all due respect, everybody's entitled all that, all that

(01:54:49):
for nothing interesting? Lenny in the Bronx, Lenny, Lenny tried
to top that. You run another side of Midnight with Lionel.

Speaker 8 (01:54:58):
Well and the breeze was coming in. You're right, God,
this is talk radio you got to get right to
the point. You can't make the story. You can't elo
game the story you know exactly. But it's good the
way you play along, because you are funny too.

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
But I try my best.

Speaker 8 (01:55:16):
I try my best, and your best is very good.
The grand lady who just called in, she said those
individuals were Russians. Were they Russian students or they Russian secrets?

Speaker 10 (01:55:30):
Sir?

Speaker 8 (01:55:30):
I mean, who are these Russians? No?

Speaker 1 (01:55:35):
No, I think there were students of some sort. They
would be hanging around as school. Russian secret servants out
of school is a different story. A code, mister Lee,
A code. So what is your what is your point,
my friend? Elucidate us with your unique take on this situation.

Speaker 8 (01:55:54):
Oh, my take is very unique. I just think everybody
has like a story, and they all like fantasize and
think about things, favorite things that they wanted to be
in life. And they didn't succeed, and they took another avenue,
and then they succeeded the other way. Some people think
the wrong road home, and some people in life put

(01:56:15):
on a pair of roll skates and they skate through
the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:56:18):
I have no idea what that I have no idea
What this means? I mean, so therefore you're saying the
reason why people like mob of movies is because of.

Speaker 8 (01:56:30):
Because of I don't think. I don't know if everybody's life.
Do mob guys like mob movies? That's the best question?

Speaker 1 (01:56:37):
Are you kidding me? Are you kidding? Absolutely? Do people
in the CIA like spy? Do people in the CIA
like spy movies? My my friend John Kiriako says they
love it? Are you kidding me? How many times already

(01:57:32):
lined up with you? Eight hundred and eight for eighty
nine two two two in the last moments of this
thing of ours? Look at this headline Florida dad thought
using a leaf flower on his infant son would be
fun until he died. He killed a kid with a

(01:57:52):
leaf flower. They're not going to make a movie about him.
How about Brian Kolberger or Coburgerricees say, the unsettling theory
services on why Brian Koberger chose the house he attack
is do we like him? No? No, this is the
one who don't. Again, is it creepy? I don't know

(01:58:19):
what we started off on. What I intended, at least initially,
was this idea of why do we find things fascinating
when I used to as I told you the story
of organized crime, but also professional wrestling, which changed my life.
I learned everything. The idea of the heel, the bad guy.

(01:58:44):
It wasn't known. Wrestling was two people wrestling. It wasn't
a bad guy. And one of the most interesting things
that ever happened in the history of the annals of
professional wrestling was George Wagner, gorgeous George, And this is
a man. After talking about Prussian this is a man.

(01:59:07):
After World War Two, when America had just clobbered Hitler,
when America was feeling brave and strong and masculine and
great and powerful, this guy comes along and has this act,
this gimmick where he's wearing bobby pins, and he has

(01:59:29):
dyes his hair blonde and and and he's sashetting around
in a robe. Sasha listened to me, and people went, berzuk,
what is this? And wrestling was forever changed. He was
the heel, he was the bad guy. They booed him,

(01:59:51):
they loved him because he was the bad guy. You
didn't understand the manichean versus evil without the bad guy,
and the bad guy in some respects was more interesting
because you wanted to see him break the rules, and
it was something delicious about watching somebody who's the bad

(02:00:12):
guy and it's in us.

Speaker 3 (02:00:16):
And one of the.

Speaker 1 (02:00:17):
Reasons why, which is the moral of the story, is
that what we think are the rules these clear guy. Listen,
there are things about people who are child murderers. I
don't think anybody's gonna want to do the story about
Albert Fish, the cannibal and serial killer of the twenties.
Nobody's gonna that's not that's not of interest. But when
you talk about Jimmy Burke and Jimmy the Gent and

(02:00:39):
all these other stories of these these interesting people al Capone,
John Gottie and others, irrespective of what you think of
what's right and what's wrong, you find it fascinating. And
one of the reasons why is you must understand that
these laws, for the most part, really don't bother you.

(02:01:00):
Racketeering does that upset you?

Speaker 2 (02:01:03):
Now?

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
I don't even know what the hell I mean. I
know what it is, but most people say, I don't
even know what that means. And being a gangsta in
any event, well, two of the best ogs. Of course,
I want to thank miss A Bill Lee, and I
also hold us to thank Jackson, who did a tremendous
job tonight stewarding the helm. Gentlemen, thank you so much
and thank you for listening. Thank you so much for

(02:01:26):
lending your expertise in your inside. You may follow me
on YouTube at Linel Nation and on X at Linel Media,
so we'll see you next week, my friend, Thank you
so much, and again, from the bottom of my heart,
thank you for listening. This is your new best friend Linel,
reminding you these final words. The monkey's dead, the show's over.

(02:01:47):
Sue youa dad, Dad,