March 11, 2026 • 62 mins
Text me what you think of today’s episode!
We talk with best-selling author Laura Van Wormer about building a career in publishing and fiction, then losing her ability to write after a devastating crash. She shares how she rebuilt her creative life through serialized audio storytelling with The Class of 74 and why “pivot” is sometimes the only way back to joy.
• working through podcast tech issues and learning a quick audio fix
• Laura’s childhood origin story for becoming a storyteller
• getting a start at Doubleday and meeting Jaclyn Onassis
• learning the business through celebrity books and big publishing moments
• quitting drinking at 27 and returning to writing at night
• writing fast under pressure on Dynasty then Dallas and Knott’s Landing projects
• launching Riverside Drive and navigating early breakout success
• building recurring characters and bringing sexuality into mainstream fiction
• surviving a wrong-way drunk driver crash and a long ICU recovery
• how concussions and brain injury changed Laura’s writing capacity
• using shorter “bite-sized” episodes to write again via a fiction podcast
• The Class of 74 as escapism with heart and a reminder not to drink and drive
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Laura Van Wormer Books on Amazon
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
Thanks for tuning in this week.
Just a reminder, hit the followor subscribe button wherever
you're listening to this podcastso you don't miss any of the
great episodes coming up.
And now, here's this week'sepisode.
(00:25):
Everyday people following theirpassions.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
That's probably like one of the highlights of my life
so far.
Just being able to be creativelike that.
Something I've always wanted.
SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
And then I decided to get another hive, and that
turned into a lot of hives.
As long as I can do that, I wantto be a good citizen, help
people out.
SPEAKER_07 (00:49):
Putting themselves out there, taking chances, and
navigating challenges along theway.
SPEAKER_06 (00:55):
I absolutely identified with having stage
right because, you know, anytimeI went on stage, I just felt
like I was having a hot attack.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Very first lap, very first practice session, I
crashed, turned the car upsidedown, made a spectacle of
myself, and I got back on thathorse and started riding again.
SPEAKER_07 (01:12):
As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them
joy.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
As long as people are having a good time and I
have the opportunity to putsmiles on people's faces, I love
what I do.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
I have done things that I never thought I could do.
To have somebody tell me howreal it looks and how, you know,
from their actual memory.
Because that's telling me Icaptured what I was trying to
get.
SPEAKER_07 (01:40):
Welcome to Assorted Conversations.
I'm your host, Helen.
Hello and welcome to anotherAssorted Conversation.
Thanks for your patience as I'vetried to work through some major
technical issues, which havetaken me a bit off schedule.
(02:03):
I ended up having to get a newmicrophone and headphone set
because after five years, myoriginal ones died.
I purchased the exact sameequipment because I knew how to
set it up and I knew it allworked together.
But boy was I wrong.
Forgetting that technologyadvances all the time, all of
(02:24):
the equipment, even though itwas the same brand, had been
updated and required differentconnections to my PC.
I thought I had finally solvedthe problem, did a test record,
and was relieved to find out Ihad clear audio.
The night I recorded this week'sepisode, as I got into the
(02:45):
remote recording room with myguest, the audio issue reared
its ugly head again.
I get so flustered whentechnology doesn't work,
especially when I have a gueston the line.
Since everything had worked welloutside of the remote recording
room, I asked good old ChatGBTwhat the problem could be when
(03:07):
I'm in the recording room.
And it spit back to check aspecific setting because it
defaults to turning the audiosetting off when new equipment
is detected.
Sure enough, that fixed it, andwe were able to record with
clear audio.
A special thank you to Laura forall of her patience that night.
(03:31):
Even after five years ofpodcasting, it's always a
technical adventure for me.
So after sorting through mytechnical issue, I had the most
fascinating conversation withthis week's guest.
She's had an amazing andadventurous career.
And wait till you hear some ofthe folks she's worked with and
projects she's worked on.
(03:53):
In spite of her literarysuccess, she had to overcome so
much after a life-alteringevent, and she's found her way
back to joy.
Take a listen to this week'sconversation, all about
inspiring resilience and alesson in finding a new way to
experience an old joy.
(04:16):
And I'll see you on the otherside.
Today's guest is a best-sellingauthor who began her career in
the publishing world beforewriting more than 10 novels.
Known for creating smart,compelling characters like Sally
(04:36):
Harrington and Alexandra Waringand stories filled with intrigue
and emotion, she's built a loyalfollowing of readers over the
years.
After a life-changing accidentthat altered the course of her
career and an experience at her50th high school reunion, she
discovered a new way to tell herstories.
Today she's bringing her talentfor dramedy and rich characters
(05:00):
into the audio world, writing aserialized fiction podcast, The
Class of 74, that continues hertradition of gripping
storytelling, but in a whole newformat.
I am so excited to welcome LauraVan Wormer to Assorta
Conversations.
Hi Laura.
SPEAKER_04 (05:19):
Helen, thank you.
What a great intro.
I did I should play that at thebeginning of my podcast.
The class of 74.
Little do you know howextraordinary the creator is.
No.
Well, thank you for having me.
This is fun.
It's fun to talk about.
SPEAKER_07 (05:37):
After doing some due diligence on your story, I am so
excited to dive in.
So talk to me a little bit abouthow you got interested in
writing.
Did you write stories as a kid?
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
I my real mother was from Texas.
And when I was little, she'dhave me sit on the floor in the
kitchen, and she'd rip out amagazine, a picture out of Life
magazine, and she'd say, LauraElnor, tell me what's in this
picture, what's going on.
(06:13):
And then I would make up astory.
Oh, wow.
And so I started way early and Inever stopped.
SPEAKER_07 (06:22):
Oh, that's great.
I would so flash forward to thebeginning of your career.
It was almost like those thatwas already put in place for
you.
SPEAKER_04 (06:35):
Well, yes, the storytelling, but the problem
was I in college I figured Ididn't have anything to say as a
writer.
So I thought, oh, well, I'llwrite for TV then.
This is just what I thought,right?
But I lucked into an interview.
(06:56):
The editor-in-chief of Doubledaywas looking for a secretary.
And my mother had said, alwaysknow how to type, dear.
So I went in for the interview,and Jackie O'Nassis came through
the waiting room while I waswaiting to go in.
SPEAKER_07 (07:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
And I went, ooh, she works here.
And they said, Oh, yes, this isOnassis is an editor.
And I thought, I want to workhere.
This is cool.
Now, mind you, 10 minutes beforeI was going to the Upper West
Side to get a job as a typist ona soap opera.
So that's just how my career hasbasically gone.
(07:34):
You know, it's like, oh, I likethis better.
Let me go for it.
Oh, that's a riot.
So I got the job at Doubleday.
And Jackie was wonderful.
I often tell this story, but Ididn't know her very well.
And my mother came in toDoubleday, and I was giving her
a tour, and Jackie was comingdown the hall.
(07:57):
Oh.
And so I thought, just do it,Laura.
And I just said, Mrs.
Onassis, I'd like you to meet mymother.
Marjorie Van Warmer.
Marjorie, this is Jack, Mrs.
Jaclyn Onassis.
And Jackie put out her hand andsaid, Mrs.
Van Warmer, you must be so proudof Laura working at D.
SPEAKER_07 (08:21):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_04 (08:23):
Such a mom, right?
Yeah.
And of course, she won myundying loyalty for the rest of
my life and my mother's, becausemy father would yell at me and
say, They don't pay you anythingin this job.
And my mother would say, Leaveher alone.
Jackie works there.
One of my best friends ended upworking for her as a as sort of
(08:46):
a co-editor on projects.
So I saw her a lot.
Yeah.
No, I did know her, but I mean,I knew her better personally
than I did as a professionally.
unknown (08:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
You know, which was kind of nice.
Because later, when I leftDoubleday to pursue my own
writing, I had a real hard timebeing home by myself all day.
And Jackie was very helpful.
She said, Oh, you have thelifetime opportunity.
(09:19):
You get to do what everybodyelse who goes to an office can't
do.
Go to the first movie, you know,on a Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, whatever.
A newly open movie, go at 11o'clock.
You know, and I thought, what agood idea.
Go whatever restaurant you wantto go to, go at two o'clock in
(09:40):
the afternoon and see who'sthere.
And then you'd go in and you'dsee all these famous people
there.
And she also, as a writer, shewould say she was a big believer
that people needed to go intomuseums and let remember that
everybody who had a piece of artin the museum lived the same
(10:04):
life you do.
They were home alone.
Oh wow.
That's pretty powerful.
She was wonderful, but everybodyat Doubleday, it was in those
days, Doubleday had published600 books a year.
Now I think they publish 40.
Wow.
Because it's a little piece.
SPEAKER_07 (10:24):
Well, it's a little bit of random house.
So when you were at Doubleday,you you initially started as a
secretary.
SPEAKER_04 (10:33):
Yes.
Yes.
So I got to talk to everybody,which was sort of interesting.
You never knew who was going tocall.
Right.
You know, yeah, Rosalind Cartercalled one day when I had just
gotten there.
And well, the thing was, I lovedkind of showbiz, you know, I
loved TV stuff.
So I actually became sort of thethe media editor.
(10:56):
That was my claim to fame.
The first book I signed up aslike a kid was a biography of
Barbara Streisand.
Oh wow.
But it was James Spada who hadthe anybody who's a fan of
Barbara Streisand knew JamesSpada because this was his life,
was the fan clubs, the, youknow, all this stuff.
(11:19):
But he was a journalist and hereally could write.
But the thing is, he had a giftwith pictures and the visual.
So I didn't want a little book.
I wanted the book I wanted aboutBarbara Streisand.
I wanted a big book with lots ofpictures, you know, and so it's
(11:39):
almost a pictorial, but it didhave 80,000 words of text in it.
And it was the first book, itwas simultaneously hardcover and
paperback.
And it was the first paperbackthat Book of the Month Club
bought.
Oh, wow.
As a selection.
Right.
And so they're like, who's thiskid down there?
(12:00):
So I got promoted, right?
That kind of thing.
And I signed up, you know, JanetLee.
Remember, she got killed inPsycho in the shower.
Yes.
Well, I signed up Janet and hada ball with her.
And our relationship went on foryears.
And she wrote other books andthings long after I had left.
(12:24):
But it was just like everybody Imet through Double Day ended up
staying in my life.
Betty White was Betty White wasdoing a book.
And her editor was my boss atthe time.
And she was going to be myfuture editor.
Anyway, so I knew Betty asLoretta's author, right?
(12:49):
And I ended up knowing her for40 years.
Oh wow.
I love her.
She was wonderful and also avery good writer.
And it just it's it was adifferent world.
You know, there it's when theydiscovered people like Stephen
King out of the slush pile.
(13:10):
You know, he wrote in a queryletter to Doubleday.
That's how he got discovered.
You know, Carrie.
He didn't have an agent.
Yeah.
They had a loan in the bus fairto come down from Maine.
Wow.
To talk to them about buying hisnovel.
unknown (13:31):
Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (13:31):
Anyway.
Interesting.
How could you not end up being anovelist after working at a
place like that?
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (13:37):
So so how, you know, you went from secretary to
editing and signing people.
SPEAKER_04 (13:43):
I was a senior editor, and then what they did,
they gave me an expense account.
And I never came back from lunchafter.
Seriously.
I was I was going to be theyoungest has been in book
publishing with this damnexpense account.
(14:04):
I remember, you know, an authorsaying to me, Can't we go to a
restaurant that's above ground?
I mean, I was drinking like afish, and I had drunk for years
like a fish.
I didn't realize it until Istopped drinking at 27 that I
hadn't written a word sincecollege.
(14:26):
Wow.
And that's when I learned thatalcohol, number one, I thought,
well, what do people do at nightif they don't drink?
Well, what would I like to domore than drinking?
Very few things.
Write a story.
(14:47):
So I started writing at night.
And I it just all started tocome back to me, wanting to be a
writer.
I I had just given up my dreams.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_07 (14:59):
You probably fell into the trappings of what was
going on every day.
And and you know what?
I think a lot of folks in their20s uh do that because you don't
really know what you want to do.
You learn by process ofelimination.
No, no, no, I don't want to dothis anymore.
SPEAKER_04 (15:22):
But when somebody was like famous or but, you
know, there I'm going, I'mrunning off.
SPEAKER_07 (15:27):
Yeah.
Oh my god.
I I would have been right therewith you.
SPEAKER_04 (15:31):
Yeah.
Well, we went, we had the samekind of college experience,
except you weren't a drunk likeme.
But what happened was I hadstarted writing, and Doubleday
had signed up a book with thecreators of Dynasty, which at
that time was the biggest TVshow in America.
SPEAKER_07 (15:53):
You know, with Linda Evans and John Forsyth and Joan
Collins and dun dun dun dun andfor for anybody under the age of
45, Google it.
Or chat TV it.
SPEAKER_04 (16:10):
Oh, it's so cool.
It was so cool.
Well, they had a problem withit.
The book that was supposed to behanded in, nobody had written
it.
What?
No, and Doubleday had sold theforeign rights on this book to
all these countries around theworld because it was the biggest
(16:33):
TV show in the world.
And so Doubleday's like, uh-oh,what are we gonna do?
We need a book.
So Loretta, my old boss, said Iknow who we send because she
doesn't drink anymore.
Now we can send her and she'llcome back.
(16:54):
They sent me out there to the20th century Fox Lot where
Dynasty was filmed.
And I worked with Esther andRichard Shapiro, were the
creators.
Yeah, a couple of literature,they were both uh Victorian um
literature junkies.
(17:14):
Like one was Tolstoy and theother one was Mark Twain.
But Esther, her claim to famewas at ABC, she did a little
miniseries called Roots.
Oh wow, yeah, that little one.
And she was very fond ofDoubleday because wrote Roots
(17:35):
Doubleday published Roots, thebook, Alex Haley's book.
I figure remember I was doingthose books like about Barbara
Streisand with all the picturesand things.
Well, Dynasty is so visual,right?
So I decided, well, why don't wedo like a Streisand kind of
(17:56):
book, but about the Caritons,the characters of the show, as
if they're real people.
So all I have to do is read sixyears of TV scripts to pull the
fictional facts out.
SPEAKER_07 (18:12):
Yeah, because it's not like it was streaming back
then that you could just gowatch it.
SPEAKER_04 (18:17):
No, no, you couldn't.
No, that's exactly right.
And I'm sitting there in MarilynMonroe's trailer for a month
with all these scripts dictatingfictional facts into a oh, I
mean, it was just bizarre, butGod was it fun.
(18:38):
It was just so creative, youknow, that I was using
everything the Shapiro's hadcreated.
Yeah.
And they just had never had themin the story Bible before.
I did, and then I got to go intothe ABC archives to go through
all the photographs that havebeen taken on the set, publicity
(19:01):
stills, because there wererights problems, you know, that
you can't use the image of JoanCollins as Joan Collins unless
she gives you permission, butyou can if it's Alexis
Carrington.
SPEAKER_05 (19:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:16):
Right?
You don't have to pay they don'thave to pay her anything because
it's the show.
The book is a creation of theshow.
Well, and so they love that.
Laura Marr.
And so I did that, and I flewback to New York with a
manuscript and all thesephotographs, and went down to
(19:37):
the art department, and I gotthe best designer we had, and we
started mapping out the book.
Wow.
And we were on a crash, crash,crash schedule.
And if you see the true story ofthe Carringtons dynasty, it was
called, and it was the truestory of the carriage.
(20:00):
There's no author.
Oh.
It just says introduction.
Well, no, because I was aneditor.
I couldn't, you know, it waskind of but I came back to the
office and my friend Lorettacalls me, my old boss, and she
says, Laura, I just got a callfrom Laura Marr Studios.
(20:23):
It seems that the creators ofDallas are jealous of the
dynasty book.
And they want to know, will youwrite them a book?
Oh.
And I'm like, and I had startedmy first novel by then.
And I knew I wanted to write.
I knew that drinking was notsomething I was going to pursue
(20:46):
anymore.
I wanted to be the writer Ialways wanted to be.
And so I took that job as theway to support myself.
Well, I learned how to write anovel, which took me like three
years to do.
But my mailman, I wish you couldhave seen them, you know, when
they arrived, all these boxes ofscripts of Dallas start
(21:10):
arriving.
SPEAKER_07 (21:10):
My little apartment in Manhattan.
How long did the dynasty booktake you from start to finish?
SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Oh six weeks.
Oh my gosh.
That's why it was so good.
That because we were able tofulfill the response, you know,
the responsibilities, and theShapiros loved it.
Dallas ended up they wanted meto promote it.
And then they wanted me to wouldI do Knott's Landing?
(21:40):
Because the creator of Dallas,his baby was Knott's Landing.
That was his first show.
They produced Dallas first, butKnott's Landing was the first
series that he sold to be made,and they just didn't make it
yet.
And that ended up being theremarkable shape.
(22:03):
Right.
I mean, that just went onforever.
And I worked on that book, andthen I started meeting people
like Donna Mills, who played theVixen Abby Ewing.
You know, remember the.
So years later, not years later,two years later, my novel is
(22:23):
coming out, my first novel, WhoBuys the TV Rights?
Donna Mills.
Are you kidding?
Yes, because she wanted to playit.
And I know part of the reasonwhy she liked it was because
reading all of Dynasty andDallas and Knott's Landing,
these were soap operas, right?
(22:46):
The creators were all Victorianliterature fans, the original
soap operas, right?
So that soapiness, thatcliffhanger chapter, found its
way into Riverside Drive.
And so my books ended up beingsort of contemporary soap
(23:10):
operas.
Right.
I don't know what they wereescaped fiction.
They were not great literature.
So your first novel wasRiverside.
Riverside Drive.
And then I'll tell you aninteresting story about that.
Danielle Steele.
You remember Danielle Steele.
Well, it happened in 1988.
(23:32):
Danielle Steele was a month latehanding in her novel.
And the Literary Guild ofAmerica didn't have a main
selection for May.
So they took my novel.
Oh, wow.
As the main select, my firstnovel, the main selection for
(23:53):
the Literary Guild of America.
So it just blew across theUnited States.
Talk about beginner's luck.
Yeah, talk about timing aseverything.
And you know who my editor was,of course, at Doubleday, my old
boss to Retta.
SPEAKER_07 (24:11):
You're you're, I mean, starting with Riverside
Drive and all of their I you youhave two recurring characters.
And what when we first got on,we were talking off mic, and I
said, Oh, I I I was looking atall of your body of work and
(24:32):
your two recurring characters,and I was reading about this.
Alexandra Waring was the firstanchor woman.
And I I was reading about, youknow, kind of the the settings
that you write in, you know, theTV, the broadcast media, and
like all of that.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Well, see, I had all my friends from Syracuse who
graduated from the New HouseSchool, too.
They were all in jobs all overtown.
Right.
Right.
So I could go and I could be atemp at CBS News because I
wanted to hear what do they sayabout Dan Raven?
(25:09):
Right.
You know, the people who workthere.
I want to hear, I don't careabout them.
I want to know what everybody'ssaying about them, the people
they work with.
So you And that's how Iresearched those things.
SPEAKER_07 (25:20):
Yeah, I was gonna say you had you had built-in
research to do that.
But you know, and looking atyour body of work and your
recurring characters and and youknow, the settings that you
write in, and it's so fabulousthat you had the opportunity to
research the way you did.
I I said to you, I think you aremy new Stuart Woods because uh
(25:42):
summer's coming, and I cannotwait to dive into all of the
books that you've written.
Because they're right up myalley.
SPEAKER_04 (25:51):
Start with Riverside, Riverside Drive is
your library, will have it.
Every library has RiversideDrive.
So go to V and look for it.
It's a it's a everything aboutthat book was a good feeling,
and it still is.
And I go ahead.
SPEAKER_07 (26:12):
Sorry.
Uh your two main characcharacters, Alexandra and Oh
Sally Harrington, Sarah.
Right.
Sally Harrington.
SPEAKER_04 (26:26):
You might know you want to know how that happened.
SPEAKER_07 (26:28):
Yeah, I I'd love to know the inspiration for both of
those women because they are socomplex and so dynamic.
SPEAKER_04 (26:35):
Oh my god.
Alexander Warry.
Riverside Drive was the book Ialways wanted to read and
couldn't find it.
And what was that?
I thought I might be gay.
Right?
But I was from a town where, youknow, my mother, when I finally,
you know, said to her, Oh, well,I'm sort of falling in love with
(26:58):
a woman, you know, she said,Does this mean you can't belong
to junior league?
That's my background, okay?
So I spent a lifetime lookingfor those little scenes with gay
characters or gay relationships,you know.
So I created Alexandra as awoman in the closet, an anchor
(27:21):
woman in the closet.
And it came from the ideastarted being in Central Park
and seeing one of the TVstations in town was having a
picnic.
And I was looking at this oneanchor woman that I knew from
local news, and I thought, youknow what?
(27:43):
There's no way this woman isgay.
That's what I thought.
And I thought, I'm gonna write astory about a gay anchor woman
who falls in love with herboss's wife.
How about that?
Right?
And that was the start ofRiverside Live.
What they liked about that bookwas Alexandra has to go away at
(28:07):
the end of it.
And in those days, you couldn'tbe gay.
I couldn't be gay.
SPEAKER_07 (28:12):
Yeah, I was gonna say, what year did that come
out?
SPEAKER_04 (28:16):
88.
88.
SPEAKER_07 (28:18):
Were things starting to change at that point?
SPEAKER_04 (28:22):
Well, there people were dying, all these men.
Right.
But in terms of women, in termsof mainstream, and this is I
think a lot of your yourlisteners will understand when I
say there's mainstreamliterature, and then there was
alternative.
(28:43):
And I grew up at Doubleday, theSears and Robuck of fiction,
they used to call us, which Ithought was a compliment.
Well, I didn't want to be in thealternative press.
You know, I didn't want to be inthe small yeah, right.
I didn't want to bemarginalized, right?
(29:05):
I wanted to be mainstream, andso I kind of just brought my
sexuality into my novels overthe years.
So after about the the six, Ipeople began to start figuring
it out.
But I go out on tour, and youknow, my publicist taught me how
to talk around it.
(29:26):
But then, but I also had a verymessy love life for years.
And I was a late bloomer, and Ifell in love when I was 39, and
I left New York and I came outto Connecticut.
I said I'd never come back toConnecticut, but I came back to
Connecticut.
That's when I invented SallyHarrington, a journalist out
(29:51):
here in Connecticut.
In fact, she's in the town Ilive in that I'm speaking from
right now.
But to keep my sanity, I haveSally going into New York to
meet Alexandra and all thecharacters from my earlier
books.
(30:11):
And then as the seriesprogressed, Sally starts working
in New York, right?
And it's Laura Van Warmer World,is what they used to call it.
SPEAKER_07 (30:21):
Oh, that's funny.
I cannot wait.
But it just never stopped.
I cannot wait to dive into them.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
Well, they were fun.
And I'll have to on my website,the Laura Van Warmer website,
that it has the order thatthey're all in.
Okay.
I think on Amazon there's a thattells you what novels
Alexandra's in.
Okay.
Because in the middle of all ofthat, I got sequestered on a
(30:48):
murder trial.
Oh wow.
In New York.
So I wrote a book called JuryDuty about Oh, that's a
standalone.
That's one of your standalones.
Yes, exactly.
So that was a fun book to writebecause it just was just the
trial.
(31:10):
Interesting.
But that was fun.
And that got me a lot of TV.
That was interesting.
You know, like Judge Wappner.
Remember those books?
Those shows on TV?
They'd have me on as a as anexpert in the middle of a Judge
Wappner episode to talk aboutjuries and trials and crime, as
(31:31):
if I know anything.
And there I'd be, and then Icome home, and my father would
say, Your skirt's too short.
Right.
Because he'd be watching At andDarien.
Too funny.
Yeah, but my parents were soproud of me, too.
That was the other thing.
Yeah.
(31:51):
I mean, I was I they my crazylife, you know, where was I
gonna end up?
Right.
And I was just so glad that theywere alive to see it.
That's that's awesome.
I was a writer.
SPEAKER_07 (32:06):
I want to go back to making being in the heyday of
having all of those books andhaving those characters.
Oh and being a full-timenovelist, it was a dream come
true.
Yeah.
So how did that change and whendid that change?
SPEAKER_04 (32:25):
When I settled down.
That changed because when Ilived alone, which I did for my
first of all those books, untilSally Harrington, that's when
Chris and I lived together.
And I had never lived withanybody before.
I mean, maybe for you know, hereand there.
(32:47):
But writing was always thecenter of my life.
I wanted to live the life of themind, not so much the real
world, right?
I mean, once a year I'd have togo out on the road and go on
tour.
So I would do that.
But the joke was I had adifferent lover for every novel.
(33:07):
Because then I went back towrite the next book and I
disappeared for a year.
Nobody saw me.
And so after that, yeah, no,there was.
We moved out here, bought ahouse.
So all of a sudden, when you owna home and you have nieces and
(33:29):
nephews and things happeningaround you, it's it's just
different from being focused onit in New York.
Right.
I don't know how to say it.
We used to laugh as editors.
We hated it when somebody fellin love and was happy because we
(33:50):
knew they'd never write again.
Right, right.
All those great novels came fromthe loneliest people in the
world.
SPEAKER_07 (34:01):
Truth you know what?
I think all art comes from adark place, even though it can
be beautiful and bright.
It can a longing, yeah, alonging, a comedy and trying to
anything create create thatthing you need to snap you out
of that black space that you'rein.
SPEAKER_04 (34:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07 (34:25):
So it makes great stories.
You had all the success withyour books, and then something
happened that changed thingsdrastically for you.
Can can you share about that?
SPEAKER_04 (34:40):
Sure.
It actually, I've brought up hername several times now.
My old boss, Loretta, who becamemy literary agent, she was
diagnosed with an inoperablebrain tune.
SPEAKER_07 (34:52):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_04 (34:56):
And that was in 2013.
And she died in to the end of2014.
And it was just a it was likethe Ted Kennedy, remember his
geoglastoma?
That's what she had.
And it was torturous to watchthis vibrant giant of a person.
(35:22):
And Betty was her client, andBetty was supposed to be
starting a new book.
And so I said I'd love to go outand see Betty and see if I can
get her started on the book.
And so that's what I was gonnado.
It was kind of a favor to theagency.
(35:42):
And because Loretta wasindisposed.
And so actually Loretta had justdied.
And so I was on my way toLaGuardia to fly out to LA.
And I was on the MerrittParkway.
Anybody who knows the MerrittParkway out there, I was going
through the Heroes Tunnel, whichgoes under Sleeping Giant in
(36:03):
Hamden.
And this SOB was drunk and hewas flying the wrong way through
the tunnel.
Oh my gosh.
So talk about shooting fish in abarrel.
Where was I gonna go?
Boom.
I mean, I slammed on my brakesand I pretty much had stopped,
(36:26):
but he didn't.
And it was bad.
Bad meaning I just I had severalconcussions and my chest was
crushed.
I had 12 broken, excuse me.
My knee was broken, and my footthat was on the brake was almost
cut off.
(36:46):
Huh.
You know, and they thought theywere gonna amputate it, and my
diaphragm was ripped, and mylungs are all messed up,
everything.
I mean, I was just like HumptyDumpty.
And they took me over to Yale,New Haven.
God bless Yale New HavenHospital, that trauma team, all
(37:07):
those doctors, they literallystitched me back together again.
SPEAKER_07 (37:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (37:12):
And there was no hope that I was gonna survive,
really.
And I think I told you my otherhalf practiced medical
malpractice defense.
So one of the funny storiesabout that, because I was out
for basically a month.
I had no idea what was going on.
I was on a ventilator.
This is my ventilator voice thatI was left with.
(37:36):
Chris had to sit there in ICUand my family.
It was torturous for them.
Torturous.
But one funny thing was one ofthe doctors at Yale said, Isn't
that attorney Robbins?
Didn't she get us out of thatwhere they sued everybody in the
hospital about something andthey the doctors had nothing to
(37:59):
do with the case?
And that was sort of Chris'sspecialty was extricating
innocent people drawn into theselawsuits.
Well, I got the kind of care youcan't even imagine.
SPEAKER_07 (38:12):
Like that.
SPEAKER_04 (38:15):
That's attorney Robinson.
Oh, but poor Chris.
Oh my God, and my family, mysister, my brother, they wanted
to cut my foot off, and theywouldn't let them.
You know, they said, Laura's gotto come back.
She's got to make that decision.
You know, you can't do it.
Now, meanwhile, you know fromexperiences that you've had in
(38:37):
your life that the lungs arevery fragile.
There it things happen.
And most people, when you're ina collision, you they die on the
third day because their lungsswell so much, there's no way
they can absorb oxygen.
You know, respentilator doesn'tdo anything.
(39:01):
And in my case, where you mightdo CPR and press my chest, if
they did that, they would havekilled me instantly because all
my ribs were broken.
So I have all these jaggedpieces of bone.
So one night, the third night,when Chris fully expected that I
was going to pass away.
(39:22):
And my class from Darien HighSchool, 1974, they're all
writing me letters of farewell.
Because of Facebook, everybodyheard about it.
And so, Helen, I go in, I'm inLa La Land, right?
I don't know where I am.
And let's imagine that you'restanding on the side of a stage,
(39:45):
looking out at the stage, and Isee Chris sitting in a chair
with a spotlight coming down onher.
And I'm trying, excuse me, I'mtrying to reach her.
Suddenly I hear Loretta's voice,remember dead Loretta, who says,
Boobola, I'm not dead, I'm justbehind the curtain.
(40:12):
And anybody who knows Lorettawill is laughing because that
voice was so distinctive.
Well, Helen, I turn around and Isee there's Loretta, and behind
her is like the biggest cocktailparty you ever saw.
Hundreds of people, thisbeautiful setting.
(40:32):
You know, I don't know if it wasWeeburn Country Club or we were
in a meadow or we were inEngland.
I don't know where we were, butit was beautiful.
And all the people are outthere, are gorgeous.
And then I realized I know everysingle one of them.
SPEAKER_07 (40:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (40:49):
My mom and my mom and my dad were right there.
My Aunt Liv and Uncle Sam, mycousin Ricky, my best friend
Pampohemas, who had died ofleukemia.
There they all were.
And Loretta said, You can visitus anytime.
(41:10):
Wow.
And outside they have done ablue, what do they call it?
A blue, it's when it's arespiratory emergency.
Code blue?
And it goes out code bluethrough the ICU, a code blue.
They're all standing around justlooking at me because there's
(41:31):
nothing they can do.
And you're hallucinating.
And Chris is outside and shethinks I'm gonna die, right?
One of the nurses just startedsaying, Breathe, Laura, breathe.
They all start yelling, breathe,Laura, breathe.
(41:53):
And I started breathing.
And that was the night.
So that's what happened.
And then the tragedy was Icouldn't write for years.
And it broke my heart.
I mean, I literally thoughtabout killing myself because my
whole life had been writingstories.
SPEAKER_07 (42:16):
What prevented you from writing?
Was it more than writer's block?
Was it mental musculature?
SPEAKER_04 (42:26):
It was all those concussions I had.
It was the brain damage that myone of the things novelists
have, as you work on a book, youwork on it longer and longer and
longer every day.
Like in the beginning of anovel, you might write two hours
in the day.
(42:47):
By the end, you're writing 16 to18 hours a day, because you know
this is the window where you canhold the whole book in your head
at the same time.
You've got everybody's namestraight.
You know, you just you can seeit, you get that omniscient view
like God has, looking down onthe story.
(43:11):
And that's what you need tofinish the book.
And I lost it.
I lost it.
I couldn't carry, I justcouldn't remember anything.
SPEAKER_07 (43:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (43:24):
And so then I was gonna do some nonfiction because
I always tell people if fictionis a blank sheet of paper,
nonfiction is a coloring book.
There are lines to follow.
Right.
Right.
So for me, I worked on anonfiction project for years
just to have something to do,but it it was different.
(43:46):
And it wasn't until the idea ofwriting episodes, an ongoing
soap opera as a podcast that Icould start.
Writing again because it wasn'ttoo big.
Yeah.
I could do it in mouthfuls.
SPEAKER_07 (44:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (44:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (44:08):
All right.
And your high school reunion waspivotal, and you coming up with
the idea for the class of 74.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_04 (44:23):
Well, my voice, you hear my ventilator voice.
I was shy about going to thereunion because A, how I looked,
B, how I moved, becauseeverything had been broken.
And I just, you know, I stillwanted to be the most popular
girl in the class.
What can I tell you?
And I didn't want to go.
(44:44):
I didn't go to the wholeweekend, but I went to the
dinner and it was wonderful.
And seeing everybody waswonderful.
And I just thought, God, howmuch I love all these people.
And when I was in high school, Iwas a big mouth.
You know, and we I get drunk ata party, and then I'd make
(45:05):
everybody stop and say, I've gota story I want to read you.
So everybody go, oh God, allright, get your beer.
Let's sit and listen to Laura'sstory.
And I would read a story.
So when I was sitting there, allI could think about was how I
wished I could get up and telleverybody, wait, stop,
(45:27):
everybody.
I want to read you a story.
And everybody would groan.
But nobody could hear me at thisreunion dinner because I lost a
vocal cord and all this.
So I don't have the projection Iused to have.
And I came home and I was sosad.
(45:49):
And Chris said to me, write yourclass a story and read it to
them as a podcast.
That's awesome.
Then they can hear me.
That is awesome.
Because I loved podcasts, right?
And I thought, she's right.
And I'm like shaking from headto toe.
(46:10):
And I go, and I'm going to writeabout high school.
Not a real story.
I'm going to write a soap operaabout high school, our high
school, Finlay guys.
But I mean, based on it, but Ididn't want to hurt anybody's
feelings.
Right.
And everybody has painfulmemories about high school, you
(46:33):
know, about somebody who brokeup with them or their parents
were getting divorced orsomething, right?
But not in the class of 74, allthe bullies are going to get the
kicked out of them.
Nobody breaks up with ourfriends, and if they do, they're
going to pay big time.
(46:55):
And I create these characterswho are loosely based on lots of
what was right with a lot ofpeople.
They recognize themselves.
You know, what's wrong withpeople, that's easy.
Just look in a newspaper, right?
For the personality defects,they're everywhere.
But what's right with people,even as kids, what was right
(47:19):
with them?
And let's write a story aboutgood versus evil.
SPEAKER_07 (47:24):
Yeah.
I I absolutely love it.
I am halfway through season one.
SPEAKER_04 (47:31):
Are you all oh my God, so you're listening?
SPEAKER_07 (47:33):
How do you like Cynthia?
I like I like Cynthia.
I like Cynthia a lot.
And it's so funny because if wehadn't had this conversation, I
and I haven't read your books.
I I plan to.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (47:46):
They're very much like it.
That's why Sally Harrington,those are the books I need to
get back into print.
SPEAKER_05 (47:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (47:56):
Because people who like Cynthia will love Sally.
SPEAKER_07 (47:59):
It's the same connectivity.
And and but it was it was sofunny.
If we hadn't had thisconversation, if we hadn't
talked about the accident andhow it affected your ability to
write novels, I never would haveknown anything had happened.
And I would have just thoughtyou decided to change mediums
(48:20):
because uh the story, the classof 74 is so strong.
And it's like it's like, let'slisten to one more episode.
You know, I at my house hasnever been cleaner.
SPEAKER_04 (48:33):
Do you have any idea how that makes me cry?
Because you're making me cry.
Because it's been so long sinceI've had a reader, yeah, a fame.
SPEAKER_07 (48:45):
Yeah, I no, I and that was my life for years.
Yeah, I love it, and I can'twait to go back and read the
books.
SPEAKER_04 (48:53):
So well, a lot of people have pointed out to me
that Laura, and you put all theepisodes together, this is a
book.
SPEAKER_07 (49:01):
Yeah, but but you're you're doing it in bite-sized
pieces as you're able to.
Every week.
And I like uh just hearing whatyour story was initially when I
was like, oh, will this be afit?
Will she be a fit for thepodcast?
I was like, Yeah, your messageis pivot.
And and uh you've done itbeautifully.
SPEAKER_04 (49:23):
And well, but it makes use of everything I've
ever done in my life.
Exactly.
It goes right back to what I Iwant to tell a story, yeah,
right?
Soap operas, I love you know,the cliffhanger endings, and I
love showbiz, and I love youknow, in this mirror, and I get
to be a ham and people can hearme.
SPEAKER_07 (49:44):
Yeah.
Because I have a microphone.
How is is your process forwriting the podcast?
How is that different than whatyou used to do when you wrote
your novels?
SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
Oh, it's so much it's harder and easier because
the pressure is enormous to getit done on time.
And in season two, I have vowedthat it's gonna be on time every
week.
It but I know that when I putthe episode away, that sense of
(50:20):
gratification about likefinishing a book comes in a mini
version.
I've been able to see it fromits conception to the finished
product, delivering it to myreader, the story.
So it's like every week I'mpublishing a book, that's what
(50:40):
it feels like.
That's the enormity of thesatisfaction that I get in from
this.
SPEAKER_07 (50:47):
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
One of the things I love aboutit, uh, class at 74 was before
my time, but I was alive in in71.
SPEAKER_05 (50:58):
Barely.
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (51:00):
Right but I there are you just brought back so
many memories.
SPEAKER_04 (51:05):
Like well, it's life before cell phones.
SPEAKER_07 (51:08):
The dress code.
I can remember when I went toschool, my my dresses had to be
like one inch above my knee, andthat was it.
You know, you brought up a lotof uh a lot of things through
throughout the episodes I'velistened to that I just go, I I
remember this stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (51:31):
And I don't know how much people drank in your day,
but in our day, everybody drankand drove.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, horrifyingtoday.
But that's why I say we go tothe class of 74.
Well, as you know, I close everyshow by saying, remember, we
(51:51):
don't drink and drive anymore.
Ever, but we do have fun, andthat's the whole thing.
This is fun.
This is to take people who are,I don't care why you're feeling
kind of depressed or blue orbored or whatever.
(52:12):
I'm gonna take you away andyou're gonna forget everything
for a little while and you'regonna laugh a little bit, but
you're definitely goingsomewhere you haven't been in a
long time.
Yeah.
And it's gonna make you feel alot better about where you are
now because who the heck wantsto be a teenager again?
(52:34):
Exactly.
Oh, how excruciating.
Those right, so it's fun to govisit.
Yeah, and then you get to safelycome back to your world, which
now looks a hell of a lot betterthan it did an hour ago.
SPEAKER_07 (52:50):
Well, and you know, the moms, the moms of the girls.
It just reminded me of the momsin the Judy Bloom book, Are You
There, God, It's Me, Margaret?
Whoa, like it just had that feelto it of you know, the the wives
were home every day properly inthe home, themselves, the
(53:12):
children.
And I can't remember my mom wasa stay-at-home mom for years
until you know she wasn't.
But it it did she get a job?
SPEAKER_04 (53:24):
Yeah, wow.
Well, that's coming.
I mean, this is the cusp.
This is when it starts tochange, and you'll see that all
of a sudden people, women aregoing to real estate classes,
you know, which was what and thewhole world changed, and the
women's movement had started.
Right.
(53:45):
Everything is about to changebig time.
Yeah, it's we're gonna go from97% of the commuters in 1971
being male to 10 years laterthan being 53 percent.
SPEAKER_06 (54:01):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (54:02):
Commuting into New York.
SPEAKER_07 (54:04):
That's amazing, but that was definitely the time.
SPEAKER_04 (54:08):
Yeah, and that's what this backlash is about
culture right now, because atthe time, a class of 74, we had
the right to choose.
It was a national law.
SPEAKER_07 (54:20):
Looking back over your journey from novelist to
now podcast writer, podcaststoryteller, what has writing
taught you about resilience andreinvention?
SPEAKER_04 (54:36):
It flows through different veins.
You know, it's like my headinjuries.
They told me that the wiring inyour brain automatically starts
to heal.
It starts to try to find otherways to get your electrical
impulses through.
And it's true.
I mean, God, my speechtherapist, God bless you all.
(54:58):
Because speech is not justspeech, it's the way you think,
the way you move.
But to be able to organize yourthoughts is a tremendously hard
thing if you've had a new sortof an injury.
But people who are ADD havealways had that problem.
You know, so that was a bigproblem for me that I had to
(55:19):
recognize that I was never goingto be able to function without
something to help me with theADD.
Because if I have a talent totell a story and I have learned
that the human body will do itsbest to repair all those
passages in my brain, by golly,my storytelling ability needs to
(55:43):
find new ways to find my reader,listener, whoever it is.
Right.
Because I've got to reach youand bring you into my world.
And so the writing, it's just adifferent form.
It's just a different form.
But it's the same process ofbringing you into my head in a
(56:08):
believable way that will suspendbelief for a period of time.
SPEAKER_07 (56:13):
What do you what do you hope people get from your
work, whether it's your writtenwork or it's listening to your
podcast?
SPEAKER_04 (56:21):
Oh my God.
I've always written escapism.
You know, it's funny becausepeople would say, The New York
Times once said that I had theliter literary nutrition of a
diet coke.
SPEAKER_07 (56:34):
If I want to escape, I don't want anything more
nutritious than that.
SPEAKER_04 (56:39):
But I want to bring you back feeling better about
yourself and with an idea abouthow you cope and how you don't.
And what kind of people do youwant around you and who do you
want to get rid of?
And all of my books have peoplethat something's really wrong
(57:01):
with them, but people who havesomething really right with them
too.
And paying attention to that andgravitating towards that.
And that would be what I wouldhope people would get from what
I've written.
Uh, is to change the way yourperceptions and to look twice at
(57:22):
the people around you and whatyou think you want and what
actually makes you feel good.
Yeah.
Because I want people to feelbetter.
SPEAKER_07 (57:32):
This world is miserable.
SPEAKER_04 (57:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (57:34):
Yep.
Well, thank you for doing whatyou do and providing an audible
as well as a readable way toescape.
SPEAKER_04 (57:45):
Because I love to curl up at bed at night and
listen with an earphone, justvery intimate one-on-one,
because like listening to yourinterviews.
I was telling you I waslistening to one of your
interviews, the guy who has atheater for podcast people to
come.
And there's something about theway you talk to people that's
very soothing.
(58:06):
And I mean, I feel like I'vebeen socializing.
SPEAKER_07 (58:09):
Oh, well, come on.
SPEAKER_04 (58:11):
I'm glad.
And I like that.
SPEAKER_07 (58:16):
Laura, where can folks find you online?
And I'll make sure to includethese in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (58:22):
Come, if you're on Facebook, come and be a friend.
I've got a group there thatcalled the Class of 74, but just
look for me because everybody'sall over the place.
But that's the place where allthe people who love the podcast
end up coming to reach outbecause they're all still on
PCs.
(58:45):
And they listen to the podcastonline.
It's so hysterical.
Oh, that's funny.
But no, then there's a website,the class of 74 podcast.com.
And then Laura Van Warmer.net ismy writer's thing.
And also just go to your libraryand ask them for Laura Van
(59:06):
Warmer number.
Look me up in your card catalogbecause they're all still in
there.
SPEAKER_07 (59:10):
Yeah, perfect.
Perfect.
Laura, I cannot thank you enoughfor all of your time and your
patience as we as we actuallysolved a technical issue before
we hit record.
So thank you again.
I have loved this conversation.
I think I'm gonna need to haveanother one with you all about
(59:31):
Jackie and Betty White and youknow, all of those experiences
you've had.
SPEAKER_04 (59:37):
Wait till I get my backlist back in, I get Sally in
a new edition.
Oh, okay.
Because you make me want towrite those introductions that I
couldn't face before.
Oh, good.
When I couldn't write, but now Ido feel like writing, and I can
go back and revisit them and dothe introduction that I said I
would write.
(59:58):
Oh, fantastic.
SPEAKER_07 (59:59):
Oh, I'm so looking forward to that.
Well, Laura, thank you so, somuch.
You're very welcome.
What an amazing woman she is tohave overcome everything that's
happened to her and find a newway to create joy for herself
(01:00:23):
while bringing escapism andentertainment to all of us.
I think the biggest message forme from our conversation can be
summed up in one word.
Pivot.
Now, I've never liked the wordbecause I associate it with the
pandemic.
Everybody had to pivot this,pivot that through the entire
(01:00:45):
time, and I just really gottired of hearing the word.
But after talking with Laura,it's the only word that kept
popping into my head as wediscussed her shift from writing
novels to writing her podcast.
She's a great reminder of theJames Watkins metaphor, a river
cuts through rock, not becauseof its power, but because of its
(01:01:09):
persistence, highlighting thatconsistent, small, and
relentless efforts overcomemassive, rigid obstacles better
than brute force.
It emphasizes patience,resilience, and steady progress
are more transformative than rawstrength.
(01:01:29):
Now we all face obstacles andchallenges with our passions,
let alone in other parts of ourlives.
And her story is a beautifulreminder of how important the
pivot can be to carving a newpath to joy.
Jump down to the show notes forlinks to her author page and
(01:01:51):
ways to connect with herpodcast, The Class of 74.
I'm better than halfway throughseason one of it, and I
absolutely love it.
And don't forget to connect withme in Assorta Conversations.
Links to all of my socials arein the show notes as well.
As always, thanks for listening,and I'll see you in two weeks.
Thanks for tuning in this week.
Just a reminder, hit the followor subscribe button wherever
you're listening to this podcastso you don't miss any of the
great episodes coming up.
And now, here's this week'sepisode.
(00:25):
Everyday people following theirpassions.
SPEAKER_03 (00:29):
That's probably like one of the highlights of my life
so far.
Just being able to be creativelike that.
Something I've always wanted.
SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
And then I decided to get another hive, and that
turned into a lot of hives.
As long as I can do that, I wantto be a good citizen, help
people out.
SPEAKER_07 (00:49):
Putting themselves out there, taking chances, and
navigating challenges along theway.
SPEAKER_06 (00:55):
I absolutely identified with having stage
right because, you know, anytimeI went on stage, I just felt
like I was having a hot attack.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Very first lap, very first practice session, I
crashed, turned the car upsidedown, made a spectacle of
myself, and I got back on thathorse and started riding again.
SPEAKER_07 (01:12):
As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them
joy.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
As long as people are having a good time and I
have the opportunity to putsmiles on people's faces, I love
what I do.
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
I have done things that I never thought I could do.
To have somebody tell me howreal it looks and how, you know,
from their actual memory.
Because that's telling me Icaptured what I was trying to
get.
SPEAKER_07 (01:40):
Welcome to Assorted Conversations.
I'm your host, Helen.
Hello and welcome to anotherAssorted Conversation.
Thanks for your patience as I'vetried to work through some major
technical issues, which havetaken me a bit off schedule.
(02:03):
I ended up having to get a newmicrophone and headphone set
because after five years, myoriginal ones died.
I purchased the exact sameequipment because I knew how to
set it up and I knew it allworked together.
But boy was I wrong.
Forgetting that technologyadvances all the time, all of
(02:24):
the equipment, even though itwas the same brand, had been
updated and required differentconnections to my PC.
I thought I had finally solvedthe problem, did a test record,
and was relieved to find out Ihad clear audio.
The night I recorded this week'sepisode, as I got into the
(02:45):
remote recording room with myguest, the audio issue reared
its ugly head again.
I get so flustered whentechnology doesn't work,
especially when I have a gueston the line.
Since everything had worked welloutside of the remote recording
room, I asked good old ChatGBTwhat the problem could be when
(03:07):
I'm in the recording room.
And it spit back to check aspecific setting because it
defaults to turning the audiosetting off when new equipment
is detected.
Sure enough, that fixed it, andwe were able to record with
clear audio.
A special thank you to Laura forall of her patience that night.
(03:31):
Even after five years ofpodcasting, it's always a
technical adventure for me.
So after sorting through mytechnical issue, I had the most
fascinating conversation withthis week's guest.
She's had an amazing andadventurous career.
And wait till you hear some ofthe folks she's worked with and
projects she's worked on.
(03:53):
In spite of her literarysuccess, she had to overcome so
much after a life-alteringevent, and she's found her way
back to joy.
Take a listen to this week'sconversation, all about
inspiring resilience and alesson in finding a new way to
experience an old joy.
(04:16):
And I'll see you on the otherside.
Today's guest is a best-sellingauthor who began her career in
the publishing world beforewriting more than 10 novels.
Known for creating smart,compelling characters like Sally
(04:36):
Harrington and Alexandra Waringand stories filled with intrigue
and emotion, she's built a loyalfollowing of readers over the
years.
After a life-changing accidentthat altered the course of her
career and an experience at her50th high school reunion, she
discovered a new way to tell herstories.
Today she's bringing her talentfor dramedy and rich characters
(05:00):
into the audio world, writing aserialized fiction podcast, The
Class of 74, that continues hertradition of gripping
storytelling, but in a whole newformat.
I am so excited to welcome LauraVan Wormer to Assorta
Conversations.
Hi Laura.
SPEAKER_04 (05:19):
Helen, thank you.
What a great intro.
I did I should play that at thebeginning of my podcast.
The class of 74.
Little do you know howextraordinary the creator is.
No.
Well, thank you for having me.
This is fun.
It's fun to talk about.
SPEAKER_07 (05:37):
After doing some due diligence on your story, I am so
excited to dive in.
So talk to me a little bit abouthow you got interested in
writing.
Did you write stories as a kid?
Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (05:53):
I my real mother was from Texas.
And when I was little, she'dhave me sit on the floor in the
kitchen, and she'd rip out amagazine, a picture out of Life
magazine, and she'd say, LauraElnor, tell me what's in this
picture, what's going on.
(06:13):
And then I would make up astory.
Oh, wow.
And so I started way early and Inever stopped.
SPEAKER_07 (06:22):
Oh, that's great.
I would so flash forward to thebeginning of your career.
It was almost like those thatwas already put in place for
you.
SPEAKER_04 (06:35):
Well, yes, the storytelling, but the problem
was I in college I figured Ididn't have anything to say as a
writer.
So I thought, oh, well, I'llwrite for TV then.
This is just what I thought,right?
But I lucked into an interview.
(06:56):
The editor-in-chief of Doubledaywas looking for a secretary.
And my mother had said, alwaysknow how to type, dear.
So I went in for the interview,and Jackie O'Nassis came through
the waiting room while I waswaiting to go in.
SPEAKER_07 (07:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (07:12):
And I went, ooh, she works here.
And they said, Oh, yes, this isOnassis is an editor.
And I thought, I want to workhere.
This is cool.
Now, mind you, 10 minutes beforeI was going to the Upper West
Side to get a job as a typist ona soap opera.
So that's just how my career hasbasically gone.
(07:34):
You know, it's like, oh, I likethis better.
Let me go for it.
Oh, that's a riot.
So I got the job at Doubleday.
And Jackie was wonderful.
I often tell this story, but Ididn't know her very well.
And my mother came in toDoubleday, and I was giving her
a tour, and Jackie was comingdown the hall.
(07:57):
Oh.
And so I thought, just do it,Laura.
And I just said, Mrs.
Onassis, I'd like you to meet mymother.
Marjorie Van Warmer.
Marjorie, this is Jack, Mrs.
Jaclyn Onassis.
And Jackie put out her hand andsaid, Mrs.
Van Warmer, you must be so proudof Laura working at D.
SPEAKER_07 (08:21):
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_04 (08:23):
Such a mom, right?
Yeah.
And of course, she won myundying loyalty for the rest of
my life and my mother's, becausemy father would yell at me and
say, They don't pay you anythingin this job.
And my mother would say, Leaveher alone.
Jackie works there.
One of my best friends ended upworking for her as a as sort of
(08:46):
a co-editor on projects.
So I saw her a lot.
Yeah.
No, I did know her, but I mean,I knew her better personally
than I did as a professionally.
unknown (08:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (08:58):
You know, which was kind of nice.
Because later, when I leftDoubleday to pursue my own
writing, I had a real hard timebeing home by myself all day.
And Jackie was very helpful.
She said, Oh, you have thelifetime opportunity.
(09:19):
You get to do what everybodyelse who goes to an office can't
do.
Go to the first movie, you know,on a Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, whatever.
A newly open movie, go at 11o'clock.
You know, and I thought, what agood idea.
Go whatever restaurant you wantto go to, go at two o'clock in
(09:40):
the afternoon and see who'sthere.
And then you'd go in and you'dsee all these famous people
there.
And she also, as a writer, shewould say she was a big believer
that people needed to go intomuseums and let remember that
everybody who had a piece of artin the museum lived the same
(10:04):
life you do.
They were home alone.
Oh wow.
That's pretty powerful.
She was wonderful, but everybodyat Doubleday, it was in those
days, Doubleday had published600 books a year.
Now I think they publish 40.
Wow.
Because it's a little piece.
SPEAKER_07 (10:24):
Well, it's a little bit of random house.
So when you were at Doubleday,you you initially started as a
secretary.
SPEAKER_04 (10:33):
Yes.
Yes.
So I got to talk to everybody,which was sort of interesting.
You never knew who was going tocall.
Right.
You know, yeah, Rosalind Cartercalled one day when I had just
gotten there.
And well, the thing was, I lovedkind of showbiz, you know, I
loved TV stuff.
So I actually became sort of thethe media editor.
(10:56):
That was my claim to fame.
The first book I signed up aslike a kid was a biography of
Barbara Streisand.
Oh wow.
But it was James Spada who hadthe anybody who's a fan of
Barbara Streisand knew JamesSpada because this was his life,
was the fan clubs, the, youknow, all this stuff.
(11:19):
But he was a journalist and hereally could write.
But the thing is, he had a giftwith pictures and the visual.
So I didn't want a little book.
I wanted the book I wanted aboutBarbara Streisand.
I wanted a big book with lots ofpictures, you know, and so it's
(11:39):
almost a pictorial, but it didhave 80,000 words of text in it.
And it was the first book, itwas simultaneously hardcover and
paperback.
And it was the first paperbackthat Book of the Month Club
bought.
Oh, wow.
As a selection.
Right.
And so they're like, who's thiskid down there?
(12:00):
So I got promoted, right?
That kind of thing.
And I signed up, you know, JanetLee.
Remember, she got killed inPsycho in the shower.
Yes.
Well, I signed up Janet and hada ball with her.
And our relationship went on foryears.
And she wrote other books andthings long after I had left.
(12:24):
But it was just like everybody Imet through Double Day ended up
staying in my life.
Betty White was Betty White wasdoing a book.
And her editor was my boss atthe time.
And she was going to be myfuture editor.
Anyway, so I knew Betty asLoretta's author, right?
(12:49):
And I ended up knowing her for40 years.
Oh wow.
I love her.
She was wonderful and also avery good writer.
And it just it's it was adifferent world.
You know, there it's when theydiscovered people like Stephen
King out of the slush pile.
(13:10):
You know, he wrote in a queryletter to Doubleday.
That's how he got discovered.
You know, Carrie.
He didn't have an agent.
Yeah.
They had a loan in the bus fairto come down from Maine.
Wow.
To talk to them about buying hisnovel.
unknown (13:31):
Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (13:31):
Anyway.
Interesting.
How could you not end up being anovelist after working at a
place like that?
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (13:37):
So so how, you know, you went from secretary to
editing and signing people.
SPEAKER_04 (13:43):
I was a senior editor, and then what they did,
they gave me an expense account.
And I never came back from lunchafter.
Seriously.
I was I was going to be theyoungest has been in book
publishing with this damnexpense account.
(14:04):
I remember, you know, an authorsaying to me, Can't we go to a
restaurant that's above ground?
I mean, I was drinking like afish, and I had drunk for years
like a fish.
I didn't realize it until Istopped drinking at 27 that I
hadn't written a word sincecollege.
(14:26):
Wow.
And that's when I learned thatalcohol, number one, I thought,
well, what do people do at nightif they don't drink?
Well, what would I like to domore than drinking?
Very few things.
Write a story.
(14:47):
So I started writing at night.
And I it just all started tocome back to me, wanting to be a
writer.
I I had just given up my dreams.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_07 (14:59):
You probably fell into the trappings of what was
going on every day.
And and you know what?
I think a lot of folks in their20s uh do that because you don't
really know what you want to do.
You learn by process ofelimination.
No, no, no, I don't want to dothis anymore.
SPEAKER_04 (15:22):
But when somebody was like famous or but, you
know, there I'm going, I'mrunning off.
SPEAKER_07 (15:27):
Yeah.
Oh my god.
I I would have been right therewith you.
SPEAKER_04 (15:31):
Yeah.
Well, we went, we had the samekind of college experience,
except you weren't a drunk likeme.
But what happened was I hadstarted writing, and Doubleday
had signed up a book with thecreators of Dynasty, which at
that time was the biggest TVshow in America.
SPEAKER_07 (15:53):
You know, with Linda Evans and John Forsyth and Joan
Collins and dun dun dun dun andfor for anybody under the age of
45, Google it.
Or chat TV it.
SPEAKER_04 (16:10):
Oh, it's so cool.
It was so cool.
Well, they had a problem withit.
The book that was supposed to behanded in, nobody had written
it.
What?
No, and Doubleday had sold theforeign rights on this book to
all these countries around theworld because it was the biggest
(16:33):
TV show in the world.
And so Doubleday's like, uh-oh,what are we gonna do?
We need a book.
So Loretta, my old boss, said Iknow who we send because she
doesn't drink anymore.
Now we can send her and she'llcome back.
(16:54):
They sent me out there to the20th century Fox Lot where
Dynasty was filmed.
And I worked with Esther andRichard Shapiro, were the
creators.
Yeah, a couple of literature,they were both uh Victorian um
literature junkies.
(17:14):
Like one was Tolstoy and theother one was Mark Twain.
But Esther, her claim to famewas at ABC, she did a little
miniseries called Roots.
Oh wow, yeah, that little one.
And she was very fond ofDoubleday because wrote Roots
(17:35):
Doubleday published Roots, thebook, Alex Haley's book.
I figure remember I was doingthose books like about Barbara
Streisand with all the picturesand things.
Well, Dynasty is so visual,right?
So I decided, well, why don't wedo like a Streisand kind of
(17:56):
book, but about the Caritons,the characters of the show, as
if they're real people.
So all I have to do is read sixyears of TV scripts to pull the
fictional facts out.
SPEAKER_07 (18:12):
Yeah, because it's not like it was streaming back
then that you could just gowatch it.
SPEAKER_04 (18:17):
No, no, you couldn't.
No, that's exactly right.
And I'm sitting there in MarilynMonroe's trailer for a month
with all these scripts dictatingfictional facts into a oh, I
mean, it was just bizarre, butGod was it fun.
(18:38):
It was just so creative, youknow, that I was using
everything the Shapiro's hadcreated.
Yeah.
And they just had never had themin the story Bible before.
I did, and then I got to go intothe ABC archives to go through
all the photographs that havebeen taken on the set, publicity
(19:01):
stills, because there wererights problems, you know, that
you can't use the image of JoanCollins as Joan Collins unless
she gives you permission, butyou can if it's Alexis
Carrington.
SPEAKER_05 (19:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (19:16):
Right?
You don't have to pay they don'thave to pay her anything because
it's the show.
The book is a creation of theshow.
Well, and so they love that.
Laura Marr.
And so I did that, and I flewback to New York with a
manuscript and all thesephotographs, and went down to
(19:37):
the art department, and I gotthe best designer we had, and we
started mapping out the book.
Wow.
And we were on a crash, crash,crash schedule.
And if you see the true story ofthe Carringtons dynasty, it was
called, and it was the truestory of the carriage.
(20:00):
There's no author.
Oh.
It just says introduction.
Well, no, because I was aneditor.
I couldn't, you know, it waskind of but I came back to the
office and my friend Lorettacalls me, my old boss, and she
says, Laura, I just got a callfrom Laura Marr Studios.
(20:23):
It seems that the creators ofDallas are jealous of the
dynasty book.
And they want to know, will youwrite them a book?
Oh.
And I'm like, and I had startedmy first novel by then.
And I knew I wanted to write.
I knew that drinking was notsomething I was going to pursue
(20:46):
anymore.
I wanted to be the writer Ialways wanted to be.
And so I took that job as theway to support myself.
Well, I learned how to write anovel, which took me like three
years to do.
But my mailman, I wish you couldhave seen them, you know, when
they arrived, all these boxes ofscripts of Dallas start
(21:10):
arriving.
SPEAKER_07 (21:10):
My little apartment in Manhattan.
How long did the dynasty booktake you from start to finish?
SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Oh six weeks.
Oh my gosh.
That's why it was so good.
That because we were able tofulfill the response, you know,
the responsibilities, and theShapiros loved it.
Dallas ended up they wanted meto promote it.
And then they wanted me to wouldI do Knott's Landing?
(21:40):
Because the creator of Dallas,his baby was Knott's Landing.
That was his first show.
They produced Dallas first, butKnott's Landing was the first
series that he sold to be made,and they just didn't make it
yet.
And that ended up being theremarkable shape.
(22:03):
Right.
I mean, that just went onforever.
And I worked on that book, andthen I started meeting people
like Donna Mills, who played theVixen Abby Ewing.
You know, remember the.
So years later, not years later,two years later, my novel is
(22:23):
coming out, my first novel, WhoBuys the TV Rights?
Donna Mills.
Are you kidding?
Yes, because she wanted to playit.
And I know part of the reasonwhy she liked it was because
reading all of Dynasty andDallas and Knott's Landing,
these were soap operas, right?
(22:46):
The creators were all Victorianliterature fans, the original
soap operas, right?
So that soapiness, thatcliffhanger chapter, found its
way into Riverside Drive.
And so my books ended up beingsort of contemporary soap
(23:10):
operas.
Right.
I don't know what they wereescaped fiction.
They were not great literature.
So your first novel wasRiverside.
Riverside Drive.
And then I'll tell you aninteresting story about that.
Danielle Steele.
You remember Danielle Steele.
Well, it happened in 1988.
(23:32):
Danielle Steele was a month latehanding in her novel.
And the Literary Guild ofAmerica didn't have a main
selection for May.
So they took my novel.
Oh, wow.
As the main select, my firstnovel, the main selection for
(23:53):
the Literary Guild of America.
So it just blew across theUnited States.
Talk about beginner's luck.
Yeah, talk about timing aseverything.
And you know who my editor was,of course, at Doubleday, my old
boss to Retta.
SPEAKER_07 (24:11):
You're you're, I mean, starting with Riverside
Drive and all of their I you youhave two recurring characters.
And what when we first got on,we were talking off mic, and I
said, Oh, I I I was looking atall of your body of work and
(24:32):
your two recurring characters,and I was reading about this.
Alexandra Waring was the firstanchor woman.
And I I was reading about, youknow, kind of the the settings
that you write in, you know, theTV, the broadcast media, and
like all of that.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Well, see, I had all my friends from Syracuse who
graduated from the New HouseSchool, too.
They were all in jobs all overtown.
Right.
Right.
So I could go and I could be atemp at CBS News because I
wanted to hear what do they sayabout Dan Raven?
(25:09):
Right.
You know, the people who workthere.
I want to hear, I don't careabout them.
I want to know what everybody'ssaying about them, the people
they work with.
So you And that's how Iresearched those things.
SPEAKER_07 (25:20):
Yeah, I was gonna say you had you had built-in
research to do that.
But you know, and looking atyour body of work and your
recurring characters and and youknow, the settings that you
write in, and it's so fabulousthat you had the opportunity to
research the way you did.
I I said to you, I think you aremy new Stuart Woods because uh
(25:42):
summer's coming, and I cannotwait to dive into all of the
books that you've written.
Because they're right up myalley.
SPEAKER_04 (25:51):
Start with Riverside, Riverside Drive is
your library, will have it.
Every library has RiversideDrive.
So go to V and look for it.
It's a it's a everything aboutthat book was a good feeling,
and it still is.
And I go ahead.
SPEAKER_07 (26:12):
Sorry.
Uh your two main characcharacters, Alexandra and Oh
Sally Harrington, Sarah.
Right.
Sally Harrington.
SPEAKER_04 (26:26):
You might know you want to know how that happened.
SPEAKER_07 (26:28):
Yeah, I I'd love to know the inspiration for both of
those women because they are socomplex and so dynamic.
SPEAKER_04 (26:35):
Oh my god.
Alexander Warry.
Riverside Drive was the book Ialways wanted to read and
couldn't find it.
And what was that?
I thought I might be gay.
Right?
But I was from a town where, youknow, my mother, when I finally,
you know, said to her, Oh, well,I'm sort of falling in love with
(26:58):
a woman, you know, she said,Does this mean you can't belong
to junior league?
That's my background, okay?
So I spent a lifetime lookingfor those little scenes with gay
characters or gay relationships,you know.
So I created Alexandra as awoman in the closet, an anchor
(27:21):
woman in the closet.
And it came from the ideastarted being in Central Park
and seeing one of the TVstations in town was having a
picnic.
And I was looking at this oneanchor woman that I knew from
local news, and I thought, youknow what?
(27:43):
There's no way this woman isgay.
That's what I thought.
And I thought, I'm gonna write astory about a gay anchor woman
who falls in love with herboss's wife.
How about that?
Right?
And that was the start ofRiverside Live.
What they liked about that bookwas Alexandra has to go away at
(28:07):
the end of it.
And in those days, you couldn'tbe gay.
I couldn't be gay.
SPEAKER_07 (28:12):
Yeah, I was gonna say, what year did that come
out?
SPEAKER_04 (28:16):
88.
88.
SPEAKER_07 (28:18):
Were things starting to change at that point?
SPEAKER_04 (28:22):
Well, there people were dying, all these men.
Right.
But in terms of women, in termsof mainstream, and this is I
think a lot of your yourlisteners will understand when I
say there's mainstreamliterature, and then there was
alternative.
(28:43):
And I grew up at Doubleday, theSears and Robuck of fiction,
they used to call us, which Ithought was a compliment.
Well, I didn't want to be in thealternative press.
You know, I didn't want to be inthe small yeah, right.
I didn't want to bemarginalized, right?
(29:05):
I wanted to be mainstream, andso I kind of just brought my
sexuality into my novels overthe years.
So after about the the six, Ipeople began to start figuring
it out.
But I go out on tour, and youknow, my publicist taught me how
to talk around it.
(29:26):
But then, but I also had a verymessy love life for years.
And I was a late bloomer, and Ifell in love when I was 39, and
I left New York and I came outto Connecticut.
I said I'd never come back toConnecticut, but I came back to
Connecticut.
That's when I invented SallyHarrington, a journalist out
(29:51):
here in Connecticut.
In fact, she's in the town Ilive in that I'm speaking from
right now.
But to keep my sanity, I haveSally going into New York to
meet Alexandra and all thecharacters from my earlier
books.
(30:11):
And then as the seriesprogressed, Sally starts working
in New York, right?
And it's Laura Van Warmer World,is what they used to call it.
SPEAKER_07 (30:21):
Oh, that's funny.
I cannot wait.
But it just never stopped.
I cannot wait to dive into them.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
Well, they were fun.
And I'll have to on my website,the Laura Van Warmer website,
that it has the order thatthey're all in.
Okay.
I think on Amazon there's a thattells you what novels
Alexandra's in.
Okay.
Because in the middle of all ofthat, I got sequestered on a
(30:48):
murder trial.
Oh wow.
In New York.
So I wrote a book called JuryDuty about Oh, that's a
standalone.
That's one of your standalones.
Yes, exactly.
So that was a fun book to writebecause it just was just the
trial.
(31:10):
Interesting.
But that was fun.
And that got me a lot of TV.
That was interesting.
You know, like Judge Wappner.
Remember those books?
Those shows on TV?
They'd have me on as a as anexpert in the middle of a Judge
Wappner episode to talk aboutjuries and trials and crime, as
(31:31):
if I know anything.
And there I'd be, and then Icome home, and my father would
say, Your skirt's too short.
Right.
Because he'd be watching At andDarien.
Too funny.
Yeah, but my parents were soproud of me, too.
That was the other thing.
Yeah.
(31:51):
I mean, I was I they my crazylife, you know, where was I
gonna end up?
Right.
And I was just so glad that theywere alive to see it.
That's that's awesome.
I was a writer.
SPEAKER_07 (32:06):
I want to go back to making being in the heyday of
having all of those books andhaving those characters.
Oh and being a full-timenovelist, it was a dream come
true.
Yeah.
So how did that change and whendid that change?
SPEAKER_04 (32:25):
When I settled down.
That changed because when Ilived alone, which I did for my
first of all those books, untilSally Harrington, that's when
Chris and I lived together.
And I had never lived withanybody before.
I mean, maybe for you know, hereand there.
(32:47):
But writing was always thecenter of my life.
I wanted to live the life of themind, not so much the real
world, right?
I mean, once a year I'd have togo out on the road and go on
tour.
So I would do that.
But the joke was I had adifferent lover for every novel.
(33:07):
Because then I went back towrite the next book and I
disappeared for a year.
Nobody saw me.
And so after that, yeah, no,there was.
We moved out here, bought ahouse.
So all of a sudden, when you owna home and you have nieces and
(33:29):
nephews and things happeningaround you, it's it's just
different from being focused onit in New York.
Right.
I don't know how to say it.
We used to laugh as editors.
We hated it when somebody fellin love and was happy because we
(33:50):
knew they'd never write again.
Right, right.
All those great novels came fromthe loneliest people in the
world.
SPEAKER_07 (34:01):
Truth you know what?
I think all art comes from adark place, even though it can
be beautiful and bright.
It can a longing, yeah, alonging, a comedy and trying to
anything create create thatthing you need to snap you out
of that black space that you'rein.
SPEAKER_04 (34:24):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07 (34:25):
So it makes great stories.
You had all the success withyour books, and then something
happened that changed thingsdrastically for you.
Can can you share about that?
SPEAKER_04 (34:40):
Sure.
It actually, I've brought up hername several times now.
My old boss, Loretta, who becamemy literary agent, she was
diagnosed with an inoperablebrain tune.
SPEAKER_07 (34:52):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_04 (34:56):
And that was in 2013.
And she died in to the end of2014.
And it was just a it was likethe Ted Kennedy, remember his
geoglastoma?
That's what she had.
And it was torturous to watchthis vibrant giant of a person.
(35:22):
And Betty was her client, andBetty was supposed to be
starting a new book.
And so I said I'd love to go outand see Betty and see if I can
get her started on the book.
And so that's what I was gonnado.
It was kind of a favor to theagency.
(35:42):
And because Loretta wasindisposed.
And so actually Loretta had justdied.
And so I was on my way toLaGuardia to fly out to LA.
And I was on the MerrittParkway.
Anybody who knows the MerrittParkway out there, I was going
through the Heroes Tunnel, whichgoes under Sleeping Giant in
(36:03):
Hamden.
And this SOB was drunk and hewas flying the wrong way through
the tunnel.
Oh my gosh.
So talk about shooting fish in abarrel.
Where was I gonna go?
Boom.
I mean, I slammed on my brakesand I pretty much had stopped,
(36:26):
but he didn't.
And it was bad.
Bad meaning I just I had severalconcussions and my chest was
crushed.
I had 12 broken, excuse me.
My knee was broken, and my footthat was on the brake was almost
cut off.
(36:46):
Huh.
You know, and they thought theywere gonna amputate it, and my
diaphragm was ripped, and mylungs are all messed up,
everything.
I mean, I was just like HumptyDumpty.
And they took me over to Yale,New Haven.
God bless Yale New HavenHospital, that trauma team, all
(37:07):
those doctors, they literallystitched me back together again.
SPEAKER_07 (37:11):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (37:12):
And there was no hope that I was gonna survive,
really.
And I think I told you my otherhalf practiced medical
malpractice defense.
So one of the funny storiesabout that, because I was out
for basically a month.
I had no idea what was going on.
I was on a ventilator.
This is my ventilator voice thatI was left with.
(37:36):
Chris had to sit there in ICUand my family.
It was torturous for them.
Torturous.
But one funny thing was one ofthe doctors at Yale said, Isn't
that attorney Robbins?
Didn't she get us out of thatwhere they sued everybody in the
hospital about something andthey the doctors had nothing to
(37:59):
do with the case?
And that was sort of Chris'sspecialty was extricating
innocent people drawn into theselawsuits.
Well, I got the kind of care youcan't even imagine.
SPEAKER_07 (38:12):
Like that.
SPEAKER_04 (38:15):
That's attorney Robinson.
Oh, but poor Chris.
Oh my God, and my family, mysister, my brother, they wanted
to cut my foot off, and theywouldn't let them.
You know, they said, Laura's gotto come back.
She's got to make that decision.
You know, you can't do it.
Now, meanwhile, you know fromexperiences that you've had in
(38:37):
your life that the lungs arevery fragile.
There it things happen.
And most people, when you're ina collision, you they die on the
third day because their lungsswell so much, there's no way
they can absorb oxygen.
You know, respentilator doesn'tdo anything.
(39:01):
And in my case, where you mightdo CPR and press my chest, if
they did that, they would havekilled me instantly because all
my ribs were broken.
So I have all these jaggedpieces of bone.
So one night, the third night,when Chris fully expected that I
was going to pass away.
(39:22):
And my class from Darien HighSchool, 1974, they're all
writing me letters of farewell.
Because of Facebook, everybodyheard about it.
And so, Helen, I go in, I'm inLa La Land, right?
I don't know where I am.
And let's imagine that you'restanding on the side of a stage,
(39:45):
looking out at the stage, and Isee Chris sitting in a chair
with a spotlight coming down onher.
And I'm trying, excuse me, I'mtrying to reach her.
Suddenly I hear Loretta's voice,remember dead Loretta, who says,
Boobola, I'm not dead, I'm justbehind the curtain.
(40:12):
And anybody who knows Lorettawill is laughing because that
voice was so distinctive.
Well, Helen, I turn around and Isee there's Loretta, and behind
her is like the biggest cocktailparty you ever saw.
Hundreds of people, thisbeautiful setting.
(40:32):
You know, I don't know if it wasWeeburn Country Club or we were
in a meadow or we were inEngland.
I don't know where we were, butit was beautiful.
And all the people are outthere, are gorgeous.
And then I realized I know everysingle one of them.
SPEAKER_07 (40:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_04 (40:49):
My mom and my mom and my dad were right there.
My Aunt Liv and Uncle Sam, mycousin Ricky, my best friend
Pampohemas, who had died ofleukemia.
There they all were.
And Loretta said, You can visitus anytime.
(41:10):
Wow.
And outside they have done ablue, what do they call it?
A blue, it's when it's arespiratory emergency.
Code blue?
And it goes out code bluethrough the ICU, a code blue.
They're all standing around justlooking at me because there's
(41:31):
nothing they can do.
And you're hallucinating.
And Chris is outside and shethinks I'm gonna die, right?
One of the nurses just startedsaying, Breathe, Laura, breathe.
They all start yelling, breathe,Laura, breathe.
(41:53):
And I started breathing.
And that was the night.
So that's what happened.
And then the tragedy was Icouldn't write for years.
And it broke my heart.
I mean, I literally thoughtabout killing myself because my
whole life had been writingstories.
SPEAKER_07 (42:16):
What prevented you from writing?
Was it more than writer's block?
Was it mental musculature?
SPEAKER_04 (42:26):
It was all those concussions I had.
It was the brain damage that myone of the things novelists
have, as you work on a book, youwork on it longer and longer and
longer every day.
Like in the beginning of anovel, you might write two hours
in the day.
(42:47):
By the end, you're writing 16 to18 hours a day, because you know
this is the window where you canhold the whole book in your head
at the same time.
You've got everybody's namestraight.
You know, you just you can seeit, you get that omniscient view
like God has, looking down onthe story.
(43:11):
And that's what you need tofinish the book.
And I lost it.
I lost it.
I couldn't carry, I justcouldn't remember anything.
SPEAKER_07 (43:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (43:24):
And so then I was gonna do some nonfiction because
I always tell people if fictionis a blank sheet of paper,
nonfiction is a coloring book.
There are lines to follow.
Right.
Right.
So for me, I worked on anonfiction project for years
just to have something to do,but it it was different.
(43:46):
And it wasn't until the idea ofwriting episodes, an ongoing
soap opera as a podcast that Icould start.
Writing again because it wasn'ttoo big.
Yeah.
I could do it in mouthfuls.
SPEAKER_07 (44:07):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (44:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (44:08):
All right.
And your high school reunion waspivotal, and you coming up with
the idea for the class of 74.
Talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
SPEAKER_04 (44:23):
Well, my voice, you hear my ventilator voice.
I was shy about going to thereunion because A, how I looked,
B, how I moved, becauseeverything had been broken.
And I just, you know, I stillwanted to be the most popular
girl in the class.
What can I tell you?
And I didn't want to go.
(44:44):
I didn't go to the wholeweekend, but I went to the
dinner and it was wonderful.
And seeing everybody waswonderful.
And I just thought, God, howmuch I love all these people.
And when I was in high school, Iwas a big mouth.
You know, and we I get drunk ata party, and then I'd make
(45:05):
everybody stop and say, I've gota story I want to read you.
So everybody go, oh God, allright, get your beer.
Let's sit and listen to Laura'sstory.
And I would read a story.
So when I was sitting there, allI could think about was how I
wished I could get up and telleverybody, wait, stop,
(45:27):
everybody.
I want to read you a story.
And everybody would groan.
But nobody could hear me at thisreunion dinner because I lost a
vocal cord and all this.
So I don't have the projection Iused to have.
And I came home and I was sosad.
(45:49):
And Chris said to me, write yourclass a story and read it to
them as a podcast.
That's awesome.
Then they can hear me.
That is awesome.
Because I loved podcasts, right?
And I thought, she's right.
And I'm like shaking from headto toe.
(46:10):
And I go, and I'm going to writeabout high school.
Not a real story.
I'm going to write a soap operaabout high school, our high
school, Finlay guys.
But I mean, based on it, but Ididn't want to hurt anybody's
feelings.
Right.
And everybody has painfulmemories about high school, you
(46:33):
know, about somebody who brokeup with them or their parents
were getting divorced orsomething, right?
But not in the class of 74, allthe bullies are going to get the
kicked out of them.
Nobody breaks up with ourfriends, and if they do, they're
going to pay big time.
(46:55):
And I create these characterswho are loosely based on lots of
what was right with a lot ofpeople.
They recognize themselves.
You know, what's wrong withpeople, that's easy.
Just look in a newspaper, right?
For the personality defects,they're everywhere.
But what's right with people,even as kids, what was right
(47:19):
with them?
And let's write a story aboutgood versus evil.
SPEAKER_07 (47:24):
Yeah.
I I absolutely love it.
I am halfway through season one.
SPEAKER_04 (47:31):
Are you all oh my God, so you're listening?
SPEAKER_07 (47:33):
How do you like Cynthia?
I like I like Cynthia.
I like Cynthia a lot.
And it's so funny because if wehadn't had this conversation, I
and I haven't read your books.
I I plan to.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (47:46):
They're very much like it.
That's why Sally Harrington,those are the books I need to
get back into print.
SPEAKER_05 (47:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (47:56):
Because people who like Cynthia will love Sally.
SPEAKER_07 (47:59):
It's the same connectivity.
And and but it was it was sofunny.
If we hadn't had thisconversation, if we hadn't
talked about the accident andhow it affected your ability to
write novels, I never would haveknown anything had happened.
And I would have just thoughtyou decided to change mediums
(48:20):
because uh the story, the classof 74 is so strong.
And it's like it's like, let'slisten to one more episode.
You know, I at my house hasnever been cleaner.
SPEAKER_04 (48:33):
Do you have any idea how that makes me cry?
Because you're making me cry.
Because it's been so long sinceI've had a reader, yeah, a fame.
SPEAKER_07 (48:45):
Yeah, I no, I and that was my life for years.
Yeah, I love it, and I can'twait to go back and read the
books.
SPEAKER_04 (48:53):
So well, a lot of people have pointed out to me
that Laura, and you put all theepisodes together, this is a
book.
SPEAKER_07 (49:01):
Yeah, but but you're you're doing it in bite-sized
pieces as you're able to.
Every week.
And I like uh just hearing whatyour story was initially when I
was like, oh, will this be afit?
Will she be a fit for thepodcast?
I was like, Yeah, your messageis pivot.
And and uh you've done itbeautifully.
SPEAKER_04 (49:23):
And well, but it makes use of everything I've
ever done in my life.
Exactly.
It goes right back to what I Iwant to tell a story, yeah,
right?
Soap operas, I love you know,the cliffhanger endings, and I
love showbiz, and I love youknow, in this mirror, and I get
to be a ham and people can hearme.
SPEAKER_07 (49:44):
Yeah.
Because I have a microphone.
How is is your process forwriting the podcast?
How is that different than whatyou used to do when you wrote
your novels?
SPEAKER_04 (49:57):
Oh, it's so much it's harder and easier because
the pressure is enormous to getit done on time.
And in season two, I have vowedthat it's gonna be on time every
week.
It but I know that when I putthe episode away, that sense of
(50:20):
gratification about likefinishing a book comes in a mini
version.
I've been able to see it fromits conception to the finished
product, delivering it to myreader, the story.
So it's like every week I'mpublishing a book, that's what
(50:40):
it feels like.
That's the enormity of thesatisfaction that I get in from
this.
SPEAKER_07 (50:47):
Oh, that's great.
That's great.
One of the things I love aboutit, uh, class at 74 was before
my time, but I was alive in in71.
SPEAKER_05 (50:58):
Barely.
Right.
SPEAKER_07 (51:00):
Right but I there are you just brought back so
many memories.
SPEAKER_04 (51:05):
Like well, it's life before cell phones.
SPEAKER_07 (51:08):
The dress code.
I can remember when I went toschool, my my dresses had to be
like one inch above my knee, andthat was it.
You know, you brought up a lotof uh a lot of things through
throughout the episodes I'velistened to that I just go, I I
remember this stuff.
SPEAKER_04 (51:31):
And I don't know how much people drank in your day,
but in our day, everybody drankand drove.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, horrifyingtoday.
But that's why I say we go tothe class of 74.
Well, as you know, I close everyshow by saying, remember, we
(51:51):
don't drink and drive anymore.
Ever, but we do have fun, andthat's the whole thing.
This is fun.
This is to take people who are,I don't care why you're feeling
kind of depressed or blue orbored or whatever.
(52:12):
I'm gonna take you away andyou're gonna forget everything
for a little while and you'regonna laugh a little bit, but
you're definitely goingsomewhere you haven't been in a
long time.
Yeah.
And it's gonna make you feel alot better about where you are
now because who the heck wantsto be a teenager again?
(52:34):
Exactly.
Oh, how excruciating.
Those right, so it's fun to govisit.
Yeah, and then you get to safelycome back to your world, which
now looks a hell of a lot betterthan it did an hour ago.
SPEAKER_07 (52:50):
Well, and you know, the moms, the moms of the girls.
It just reminded me of the momsin the Judy Bloom book, Are You
There, God, It's Me, Margaret?
Whoa, like it just had that feelto it of you know, the the wives
were home every day properly inthe home, themselves, the
(53:12):
children.
And I can't remember my mom wasa stay-at-home mom for years
until you know she wasn't.
But it it did she get a job?
SPEAKER_04 (53:24):
Yeah, wow.
Well, that's coming.
I mean, this is the cusp.
This is when it starts tochange, and you'll see that all
of a sudden people, women aregoing to real estate classes,
you know, which was what and thewhole world changed, and the
women's movement had started.
Right.
(53:45):
Everything is about to changebig time.
Yeah, it's we're gonna go from97% of the commuters in 1971
being male to 10 years laterthan being 53 percent.
SPEAKER_06 (54:01):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (54:02):
Commuting into New York.
SPEAKER_07 (54:04):
That's amazing, but that was definitely the time.
SPEAKER_04 (54:08):
Yeah, and that's what this backlash is about
culture right now, because atthe time, a class of 74, we had
the right to choose.
It was a national law.
SPEAKER_07 (54:20):
Looking back over your journey from novelist to
now podcast writer, podcaststoryteller, what has writing
taught you about resilience andreinvention?
SPEAKER_04 (54:36):
It flows through different veins.
You know, it's like my headinjuries.
They told me that the wiring inyour brain automatically starts
to heal.
It starts to try to find otherways to get your electrical
impulses through.
And it's true.
I mean, God, my speechtherapist, God bless you all.
(54:58):
Because speech is not justspeech, it's the way you think,
the way you move.
But to be able to organize yourthoughts is a tremendously hard
thing if you've had a new sortof an injury.
But people who are ADD havealways had that problem.
You know, so that was a bigproblem for me that I had to
(55:19):
recognize that I was never goingto be able to function without
something to help me with theADD.
Because if I have a talent totell a story and I have learned
that the human body will do itsbest to repair all those
passages in my brain, by golly,my storytelling ability needs to
(55:43):
find new ways to find my reader,listener, whoever it is.
Right.
Because I've got to reach youand bring you into my world.
And so the writing, it's just adifferent form.
It's just a different form.
But it's the same process ofbringing you into my head in a
(56:08):
believable way that will suspendbelief for a period of time.
SPEAKER_07 (56:13):
What do you what do you hope people get from your
work, whether it's your writtenwork or it's listening to your
podcast?
SPEAKER_04 (56:21):
Oh my God.
I've always written escapism.
You know, it's funny becausepeople would say, The New York
Times once said that I had theliter literary nutrition of a
diet coke.
SPEAKER_07 (56:34):
If I want to escape, I don't want anything more
nutritious than that.
SPEAKER_04 (56:39):
But I want to bring you back feeling better about
yourself and with an idea abouthow you cope and how you don't.
And what kind of people do youwant around you and who do you
want to get rid of?
And all of my books have peoplethat something's really wrong
(57:01):
with them, but people who havesomething really right with them
too.
And paying attention to that andgravitating towards that.
And that would be what I wouldhope people would get from what
I've written.
Uh, is to change the way yourperceptions and to look twice at
(57:22):
the people around you and whatyou think you want and what
actually makes you feel good.
Yeah.
Because I want people to feelbetter.
SPEAKER_07 (57:32):
This world is miserable.
SPEAKER_04 (57:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (57:34):
Yep.
Well, thank you for doing whatyou do and providing an audible
as well as a readable way toescape.
SPEAKER_04 (57:45):
Because I love to curl up at bed at night and
listen with an earphone, justvery intimate one-on-one,
because like listening to yourinterviews.
I was telling you I waslistening to one of your
interviews, the guy who has atheater for podcast people to
come.
And there's something about theway you talk to people that's
very soothing.
(58:06):
And I mean, I feel like I'vebeen socializing.
SPEAKER_07 (58:09):
Oh, well, come on.
SPEAKER_04 (58:11):
I'm glad.
And I like that.
SPEAKER_07 (58:16):
Laura, where can folks find you online?
And I'll make sure to includethese in the show notes.
SPEAKER_04 (58:22):
Come, if you're on Facebook, come and be a friend.
I've got a group there thatcalled the Class of 74, but just
look for me because everybody'sall over the place.
But that's the place where allthe people who love the podcast
end up coming to reach outbecause they're all still on
PCs.
(58:45):
And they listen to the podcastonline.
It's so hysterical.
Oh, that's funny.
But no, then there's a website,the class of 74 podcast.com.
And then Laura Van Warmer.net ismy writer's thing.
And also just go to your libraryand ask them for Laura Van
(59:06):
Warmer number.
Look me up in your card catalogbecause they're all still in
there.
SPEAKER_07 (59:10):
Yeah, perfect.
Perfect.
Laura, I cannot thank you enoughfor all of your time and your
patience as we as we actuallysolved a technical issue before
we hit record.
So thank you again.
I have loved this conversation.
I think I'm gonna need to haveanother one with you all about
(59:31):
Jackie and Betty White and youknow, all of those experiences
you've had.
SPEAKER_04 (59:37):
Wait till I get my backlist back in, I get Sally in
a new edition.
Oh, okay.
Because you make me want towrite those introductions that I
couldn't face before.
Oh, good.
When I couldn't write, but now Ido feel like writing, and I can
go back and revisit them and dothe introduction that I said I
would write.
(59:58):
Oh, fantastic.
SPEAKER_07 (59:59):
Oh, I'm so looking forward to that.
Well, Laura, thank you so, somuch.
You're very welcome.
What an amazing woman she is tohave overcome everything that's
happened to her and find a newway to create joy for herself
(01:00:23):
while bringing escapism andentertainment to all of us.
I think the biggest message forme from our conversation can be
summed up in one word.
Pivot.
Now, I've never liked the wordbecause I associate it with the
pandemic.
Everybody had to pivot this,pivot that through the entire
(01:00:45):
time, and I just really gottired of hearing the word.
But after talking with Laura,it's the only word that kept
popping into my head as wediscussed her shift from writing
novels to writing her podcast.
She's a great reminder of theJames Watkins metaphor, a river
cuts through rock, not becauseof its power, but because of its
(01:01:09):
persistence, highlighting thatconsistent, small, and
relentless efforts overcomemassive, rigid obstacles better
than brute force.
It emphasizes patience,resilience, and steady progress
are more transformative than rawstrength.
(01:01:29):
Now we all face obstacles andchallenges with our passions,
let alone in other parts of ourlives.
And her story is a beautifulreminder of how important the
pivot can be to carving a newpath to joy.
Jump down to the show notes forlinks to her author page and
(01:01:51):
ways to connect with herpodcast, The Class of 74.
I'm better than halfway throughseason one of it, and I
absolutely love it.
And don't forget to connect withme in Assorta Conversations.
Links to all of my socials arein the show notes as well.
As always, thanks for listening,and I'll see you in two weeks.
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