May 12, 2026 • 59 mins
AB (DJ, creative) sits down with Aaron McCall to talk about confidence, rejection, and how your sense of self evolves as you move through new experiences. He gets into music as both expression and connection, the push and pull of reading a room while staying true to your own voice, and how failure, fatherhood, and life experience shaped the way he moves through the world. They talk creativity, self-awareness, faith, the creative scene, and how to keep getting better without losing yourself in the process.
Keep up with AB:
everythingab.com
IG: @ab.everywhere
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
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——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
——
Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
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Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
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IG: @badideasocialclub
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
Do you have a good voice?
Yes.
Check that box off.
Can you play my walk up song?
Yes, I can.
Can you start it at 18 seconds?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (00:47):
I don't know Tommy.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
I've gotten my eyebrows done.
Have you?
Waxed?
I mean, I've not had anythingadded to it.
Like your freaky littleeyebrows.
Yes.
Alright, man.
Let's get your freaky deakyeyebrows into the game.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
They're always ready, bro.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
They're receding but ready.
Hey everybody, welcome back toBad Idea Social Club.
My name is Aaron McCall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
This time it's Adrian Butler.
Now, he he goes by A B, and Iwas given very specific
instructions, or I guessdirection, that uh he only goes
by Adrian if uh you're mad athim or or if you're madly in
love with him.
I am personally still trying towork out some very complicated
(01:57):
feelings.
So A B is for now.
For now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
A B is a DJ, and he's got hishands in like 50 other creative
projects too.
But very quickly, thisconversation became something
way more than about music.
(02:18):
Like, like we got into identityand rejection, um, using your
voice with intention and uhstaying uh honest in a world
that like keeps uh uh rewardingbullshit.
It's fucking gross out there,man.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
I completely agree, but I do think that there's two
sides to it, and I've beentrying to really focus on the
side that's pushing back againstthe bullshit.
SPEAKER_02 (02:45):
And I mean you kind of almost have to to keep
yourself seen to survive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I think that there aresparks of it being very
prevalent that it's starting towork and that things are like
the pendulum is starting toswing the other way.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
I fucking hope so, man.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, we we we we talkedabout family, we talked about
faith, uh, and his perspectiveon the creative community that
he's a part of uh here in GrandRapids and and what music is
beyond sound, you know.
Um and you know, we both we bothcome from like music
backgrounds.
(03:21):
Like dude, when I was growingup, music was all there was to
me.
There was nothing else.
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
It's weird, you know, because you and I, this
podcast, like like we talk a lotabout like being yourself and
like and like sticking to yourguns and all that stuff.
Uh but you know, the the secondyou put anything out into the
world, like as an artist or aslike a guy, even there's this
pressure to shape it and cleanit up and and make it land a
(03:51):
certain way.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
I I find for myself that's actually that's starting
to play a part earlier in theprocess before I even release
something.
I'll give you an example.
I've been wanting to put outthis behind the scenes video for
a shoe I did recently that Ijust find really fascinating,
and I I want to share it withpeople that like our stuff.
But I have this one idea that Iwant to accomplish for it, and I
(04:15):
can't get over that hurdle, andit's literally stopping me from
creating that content.
So wanting to shape it and cleanit and make it what I want is
preventing me at the door fromeven getting it out.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
For me, like it's so easy to get lost in the in the
Instagram of it.
Like, I know what I like as muchas I want to fight against uh
creating for approval becausethat sucks.
Soul sucking.
Dude, I fall into it.
If if anybody on here follows meon Instagram, and if you see
(04:47):
like like long stretches whereI'm not posting anything, yeah,
that's because that's becauseI'm having a moment.
Okay that's because I'm dealingwith it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
We need to huddle around you in those moments.
Aaron's having a moment.
I just need dude.
Sometimes I just need a goodhug, you know?
Um, okay, so before we dive in,don't forget to follow wherever
you're listening.
Leave a five-star review, anddon't forget to tell your
friends.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Also, this thing runs off of merch sales,
listener support, and reviews.
So if you get a minute, go giveus a little bit of love.
Uh, maybe buy a t-shirt.
Um, and real just also, realquick, you're gonna see like a
little a little something on theend of my nose.
Um, it's just dry skin, it's nota burger.
SPEAKER_05 (05:32):
Grow up.
SPEAKER_02 (05:34):
Grow up.
Right.
Um, anyways, try to ignore it.
And here's my conversation withA B.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Is this good?
I feel like this is good.
This sounds good.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
Yeah.
But man, you've got you've gotthis presence about you.
You know that.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Like uh, yes, I do now.
unknown (05:53):
Good, good.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
Because it's like it's like dude, it's like it's
it's the way you move, the wayyou show up.
It all feels very intentional.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
I like people, bro.
So like if I get to be aroundpeople, that I'm just I'm gonna
be happy.
It's that simple.
Uh kinda.
I think that that's how I that'show I learn.
I learn from people.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I I'm sucked at studying.
College was not great for me.
Yeah.
(06:21):
But if I can get into aconversation with people, I gain
knowledge, I gain likeunderstanding um of them and and
probably of myself too.
So it's probably selfish alittle bit too, right?
All good though.
You know, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
I think I think the level of confidence that like
you bring into a room is is andand maybe I'm pretty sure.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
No, you're saying this more than anybody that I've
heard say this uh in a longtime.
I I I don't I think I thinkprobably because I got rejected,
bro.
Like that's gotta be what it is.
What do you mean?
I got getting rejected in highschool by girls and losing, um,
get you know, going through adivorce, and you know saying
like these things where you liketry to fit in and and you don't,
(07:08):
and then you're then yourealize, well, fuck it.
Like, I tried to be this thingfor these people, it didn't
work.
I I just gotta do me like ashard as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
So so it's not something that was like Does
that make sense?
It does make sense, uh, becauseI was also not like accepted,
you know what I mean?
I mean, I had dude, I had a Ihad a mullet till I was a
freshman in high school.
And it's like in not in not likein not like the cool ones that
you see today, like it was bad.
Like I had like I with I hadhair parted down the middle,
(07:40):
yeah, and then it only came tolike like just below my eyes,
and then went down to the middleof my back.
Yeah, that was that was talkabout talk about having bad luck
with girls.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Hey, hey, that that was um, you know, and and I
would have to say, like, likewhite dudes didn't get dope
haircuts back then.
No, it wasn't the thing.
Crossover.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
And honestly, I feel like we're still kind of working
on it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Still trying to figure it out.
Yeah, yeah, but some of themullets I see now have some like
some fade to them, so they'relike, you know, they make a
little more sense.
Yeah, there's a little sense.
Yeah, yeah.
But I I would say you probablyyou probably yeah, that was a
hard time for you.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Man, so so so the confidence that you that you
kind of carry around today.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
I mean, I think it's because you have to find that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%.
100%.
I had to find it, I still dohave to find it, you know what I
mean?
Um there's I feel like there'salways um something that comes
up that you know makes mequestion how good I am at what
I'm doing, or um if I need topivot or adjust.
(08:56):
I feel like that's that's like aconstant thing to have to push
back against or figure out insome s some way.
Sometimes it's a big way,sometimes it's a small way.
I DJ primarily, right?
You know what I mean?
Um 46, you know what I mean?
Um listening to all the newmusic is not my natural place
(09:19):
now.
Yeah, when I was when I wasfirst starting DJing when I was
in my early twenties, listeningto all the new music was all I
did, you know what I'm saying?
I had energy, time, I didn'thave to sleep as much.
Yeah.
Um I I could just I was alwaysyou know, and and you and I was
a I was I was in differentenvironments, you know what I'm
(09:40):
saying?
I was hanging out with friendsall the time.
It was like music, music, music,music.
I was making music, I wasrapping, I was just like music,
music, music.
Now I'm 46, I I've got kids.
You know, say my my oldestdaughter is getting married um
this September.
Yeah, that's crazy.
She's 23.
Um, shout out to Amara.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
Um, and then and I've got an eight-year-old,
11-year-old, and and I and mywife, who I love and love
spending time with.
You know what I'm saying?
So my time is not the same.
So listening to music, new musicis like some of it, some of it
is good, some of it sucks, andand sometimes I'm like, I don't
have time to just I don't haveeight hours to just To just get
(10:25):
in it.
To just get in it like that, youknow what I mean?
So then that means that UmThere'll be a man I'm being
vulnerable.
There'll be a DJ set where I IDJ and I'm like, oh shit, like I
should have, should I havegotten you know what I'm saying?
Should I have gone deeper intolike this certain space?
Was I not able to get as deepinto it because I don't know it
(10:47):
or like it even?
Because I mean honestly, there'ssome new music that that I just
don't like.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
And you still gotta bring that forward.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
But I still gotta I still gotta be relevant, you
know what I'm saying?
Sometimes I got so so sosometimes I'm trying to like use
some of the new music to hookpeople into music that this new
music was influenced by.
Does that make sense?
Oh, I love that.
Does that make sense?
You know what I'm saying?
So I'm like, I'll give you likesome of this new shit that you
like so that I can like show youlike the segue into the other
(11:17):
shit that this came from thatthat I like more.
SPEAKER_02 (11:19):
So then when you're like in it, right?
Um do you find yourself likeleading the room or are you
responding to it?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Uh I respond to it and then I lead it.
What is that is that process?
It's like I lead it and then Iand then I respond and it's like
a call and response the wholetime.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like it gives.
It's like so it it dep itdepends on like if I'm if I'm if
I'm the only one DJing, then Iget to set the room, right?
So I get to decide like how do Iwant people to feel when they
(11:51):
get in here.
You know what I'm saying?
And then I I do what I wantpeople to feel.
But then if they're notresponding the way I want to,
then I now I'm starting to like,you know, I I it's like it's
like you have you you make achoice, and then you have three
choices that that like come fromthat, and you decide like which
(12:13):
it's like that path.
Like we're gonna we're gonnawe're all going to walk down
this path, you know, saying tothis lake, and the lake is like
the party.
But along that path, there'sthree other ways you can go.
You can go this way that's likemore treacherous and
adventurous, you can take likethis chill path to the lake, or
(12:33):
you could take this one in themiddle where you like stop and
get some coffee and have somedrinks, and then and then now
you're at the lake.
You know, does it does that makesense?
Yeah.
So then I'm like, each time Iplay a song, I'm trying to
decide like I'm reading thecrowd, and I'm like, oh, like
they're vibing like in this way,so then this other choice will
probably be better for them.
They're vibing in this way, thischoice will be better for the
(12:55):
does that yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
So so so do you go in with a set list or do you
just kind of just feel it andgo?
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
I have I don't have a set list.
So I don't, I don't, I don'thave a set list.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
That sounds terrible.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
In terms It's a lot of work mentally.
I have I I do have I have aplaylist of of songs that I know
I'm going to play at some point.
Um, and I I do have like I wouldsay three to five ideas of like
how I'm gonna start, and then Ido have some ideas of like
(13:26):
something in the middle, but Idon't have like a set list, like
like if I was you've been in aband.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Yeah, I don't have a set list like that.
I don't have like I'm doing thissong and then this song and then
this song and then this song.
unknown (13:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
There are some DJs that do that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
You're you're you're probably taking out the like
really creative element of likeI think so.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
I think so.
I think I uh I think it's a giveand take.
I think you have to If I had aset list, I think um I could
nail some transitions.
There'll be less mistakes, youknow what I'm saying?
Like I'm not you know I mean,like there'll be some really
cool moments where somethinghappens musically that that uh
obviously I've rehearsed it andthat sort of thing, you know
(14:08):
what I'm saying?
So like precision-wise, likethat that could be cool.
I I just I just like feeding offthe energy in the room and and
seeing what people are showingyou that they want and and
pushing into that, and then andthen within that finding ways to
to do my thing.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
That's cool as shit.
How did you how did you get intothis in the first place?
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I just bro, like every time everything I was at
where there was a DJ, I was justlike, oh, like I want to be the
DJ.
I want to be the one that getsto decide the songs, because why
are you playing why are youplaying this amazing song right
now when everybody's eatingdinner and nobody can enjoy it?
Yeah, right.
You know what I'm saying?
Or or or why why are welistening to the same, like I
(14:53):
don't know, at that time it musthave been like I was young, I
was like probably in highschool, and I remember going to
some weddings with my parentsand shit, and like old people,
and it must have been likecelebrate by cooling the gang or
something.
Yeah, right.
You know what I'm saying?
That must have been like thesong that like it was always
played, and I was just like,what?
Like all the music, and that'swhat that's the that's the only
one with so much good music,like why is it that?
(15:17):
You know what I mean?
Um I just wanted to.
I just wanted to I just wantedto express myself with the with
the music and bring peopletogether, really.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
So you're you're you're really like it's your job
to set the vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Like, if if you're off, I I feel like you're
probably oh if I'm off it'sgonna be, yeah, no, it's not
gonna be great for it.
Right?
But when you're on, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So the point is that yeah, thegoal is to be on.
So like it's it it becomes astress relief though, honestly.
Like DJing?
SPEAKER_02 (15:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Oh man, like I I can't think about it.
It's it's one of the few thingsthat I mean you probably had
this with with your creativework.
You know, when you get into it,you can't really think about
other things.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, you in a way you can,but like your focus is, you
know, if you're locked in, likeyou you get to you get to be in
that space for hours, you knowwhat I mean?
(16:10):
Yeah.
And there's not very many timeswhere I I get to do something
where like I can completely likeblock out like all the other
noise, like, you know what I'msaying, politics, social issues,
you know what I'm saying?
Um the argument that I had withmy wife last night, you know
what I'm saying?
Yeah.
The you know issues with mykids' teachers or whatever
whatever it could be.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yeah, man, and so so you have a voice and you have
one that like people listen to,right?
So can you talk to me a littlebit about like the importance of
actually using it?
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
It's important to use it, uh uh uh obviously, um,
but I kind of feel like I gottapick spots.
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
Like um, I can't just say the shit that I want to
say non-stop all the time.
I feel like what especially whatI've noticed is is people you
you come to expect it fromcertain sources, and then it
becomes you know noise.
(17:11):
Yeah, it just it's just there.
And you just oh of course, ofcourse.
And I'm noticing that everybodyis blocking people that have
different views.
SPEAKER_02 (17:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
You know what I'm saying?
Which I I think at firstprobably makes sense.
You know what I'm saying?
But I feel like what's what'sthe end goal?
If the end goal, if the end goalis to like figure out how to
live in the planet together,then we we can't just block
everything that doesn't agreewith everything that I agree
(17:43):
with.
I'm guilty of that.
I'm not saying I'm not.
Yeah.
It's hard.
It is.
It's stressful, bro.
Like like trying to trying totalk to people that don't uh
want to understand what you'resaying.
Especially or or if you don't,or or people that you that or
it's difficult on my end, it'sdifficult to talk to people that
(18:03):
I struggle to respect.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I I don't want to just putthis on everybody else.
Like, sometimes I'm I'm inconversations with people and
I'm like, yeah, like I don'teven know if if I respect you.
I don't even I don't think Ilike you.
You know what I'm saying?
So the but but I but I have tolike kind of fight through that
to be to be like, no, like thisperson has a experience that
(18:26):
they've been through that Idon't just like I feel like they
don't understand mine, theyprobably feel like I don't
understand theirs.
And and somebody has to try tounderstand.
Somebody's gotta move a little.
Yeah.
But but yeah, so but if I if I'mif I'm speaking up on racial
issues or social issues, youknow, saying non-stop all the
(18:49):
time, like one, like I don't I Ipersonally don't know that I
feel like I have authority to todo that um entirely.
What do you think?
You know what I'm saying?
Like authority, like I like likeexpertise.
Not authority, expertise, Iguess, is a better word.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't I don't want to presentas though you know, saying, like
(19:10):
you have all the numbers and allof this shit.
I have, you know what I'msaying, I have research and data
to to back up like these things.
Some of the shit, like, I'm justlike, nah, like this is how this
is what happened to me in mylife.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
And and and it's real, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Um, but also I wanna I want todo it in a thoughtful way too.
Like I want I want it to bethought provoking when I when I
say something.
Like I don't want, I don't wantto just blah and like like like
like it with no path or or wayto improve, right?
(19:43):
Like if I'm calling out racists,if I'm calling out racists, then
then then what's what's the endgoal two?
Do I want do I want the raciststo just like you know uh
evaporate and die?
Or do I want them or do you wantthem to like to think and try to
(20:06):
grow and grow and then like andthen then maybe like influence
like another person that likeI'm never gonna talk to that
they're gonna talk to you knowyou know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So how do you I mean not that there's even any racist
out here, they're non-existent.
I was just coming up with thefake problem.
SPEAKER_04 (20:22):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Well, man, how do you handle like the the trolls
and the haters and the bullshitof it all?
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Yeah, I've come accustomed to haters.
I I don't even know haters,trolls, bullshit.
Um I can only do what I can do.
You know what I'm saying?
I can't, I can't withoutconversations and and actual,
you know what I'm saying?
Like I I'm not so I I I don't Idon't engage in like arguments
(20:53):
in comment sections, you knowwhat I'm saying?
I'm not I'm not that you can't.
Well you can.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
Well, yeah, yeah, you can, but you can't do it in
any like way that's gonna likemove the needle.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
No it doesn't yeah, I I I have I have had I have
tried to have conversations withwith people though, you know
what I'm saying?
I that and that's that that partis the work, and that's like
it's like an all-day thing.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Yeah, and it's gonna be uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
It's uncomfortable and and it never I I have never
come I haven't I've not comeaway from a conversation like
that feeling like something wasresolved, you know what I'm
saying?
Or or that there was a a clearpath to a better way, yeah, or
or even any kind ofunderstanding, right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:38):
Oh, I feel like everybody now is so set in what
they believe and and and withthe Instagram of it all, like
they're just being fed the sameshit that just like reinforces
yeah, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
And even if I even if it's something I agree with,
I still see it.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, yeah, I'm like I agreewith this, but like so but like
what now what yeah, yeah, bro.
I it's it's wild, and I'm sickof Instagram, anyways.
Instagram is like I have alove-hate relationship with it.
(22:14):
I like it, I like um being ableto express myself freely, right?
Like I can say something, I canyou know create content, video,
photo, music, record me talkingsome shit to the camera, put it
out there, let people know how Ifeel, what I think.
Um but then at the same time,everybody can do that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
Right.
Well, and and and for me.
Like I think the reason why Ihave such a love-hate
relationship with Instagram isthat like I feel like for so
long, like we worked so hard tolike build an audience and uh
build a brand and everything.
And I feel like the the um thepower that Instagram has where
(22:56):
they're just like we're actuallynot gonna show this to anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
Yeah, that shit is crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Like I don't see hardly anybody that I want to
see.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
No, no, I have to search the name of the person's
content that I want to see.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah, and like, dude, I forget.
I forget about people, I forgetabout stuff, and then one day
it'll just randomly come backand I'm like, oh my god, what
did I miss?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Or or or your your friends, youractual friends, yeah, will will
post something and you won't seeit, and then you'll be talking
to them and they'll talk to youlike like they think you saw it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:29):
It's a little presumptive.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
And I'm like, nah, dude, I yeah, it's it's wild.
It's wild.
And and it's also this wholelike Instagram is this free
platform, self-expression,whatever.
It's like you said, Instagram isnow deciding what people see.
Instagram is also deciding umhow to how to like it's it's
(23:54):
helping businesses sell thingsnow, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, like that part.
Like I'm I'm I'm looking atlike, oh, my friend was working
out.
Oh, look at their kids.
Oh, I should buy.
I haven't bought anything fromBillionaire Boys Club in a long
time.
What?
What is this?
Uh scroll, oh shit, some newshoes dropped.
I should like yeah, you know,it's like a constant.
(24:17):
Or or it's or I'm getting in myfeed, I'm getting a whole bunch
of suggestions.
Of just like it's just like,it's just like, I'm like, do I
follow, do I even follow this?
No, this is just a suggestion.
Dude, I'm this is anothersuggestion.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
On our bad idea social club account, like that's
all our feed is, is just likereally look at all this other
stuff.
I'm like, well, where'severybody else that I already
said yes to?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
It's infuriating a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Are you thinking that you uh we gotta get back to
like you know, physical, tactileuh communication style for you
know I'm saying for for whateverit is, you know what I mean?
Like it seems like it's gotta goback to that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Well, and I and I kind of feel like we're already
starting to move that waybecause it's like I find that
sending an email, like even solet's just go back a little bit,
right?
Okay, I'm I'm finding sending anemail is far more productive
than posting something onInstagram.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
Oh, for real?
SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Those people are engaged.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
So, like, what's one more step back from that, right?
It's like talking to somebodyface to face.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
Yeah, you know?
Okay, no, that's good.
Email.
Do you like sending theseemails?
Is that fun?
No, it's necessary that itsucks.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
And it's like, and this is okay, here's the here's
the designer in me.
It's like I've never seen anemail where I'm like, that's a
good-looking email.
Ever.
And it breaks me a little bit tosend that shit out.
Oh man.
What keeps you into uh intomusic?
(26:01):
Because music is kind of thebackbone of what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Yeah, um, I mean, it it feeds me, you know what I'm
saying?
Yeah.
Soul, spirit, whatever.
Um, that that that part.
But also, I do feel like it'sone of those things that um it's
it's very instinctive um in inthe way that it gets responses
(26:28):
from people.
And I I love to see yeah to see.
But it's immediate, right?
Yeah, you know right away.
You know what I'm saying?
So I don't have to we don't haveto bullshit.
SPEAKER_04 (26:38):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
You know what I'm saying?
Like there's I get in so manyconversations where people are,
you know, you know how peopleare.
People just talk and they justtalk and they just talk, and
you're like, what are you tryingto say?
You know what I'm saying?
What do you what do you reallymean?
Like, what are you really gonnado?
You know what I mean?
Like, like all those things.
Yeah.
And I I'm really starting to tryto I'm trying to simplify, you
(27:00):
know, saying my my life or likemy my thoughts as well.
And and I'm really at a placewhere I'm just like, you know
what?
Like, fuck what people say, itonly matters what they do.
So I love that so and so when itcomes to DJing, I get that.
(27:21):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, like if if if the peoplemove, then it's then it's good.
You know what I mean?
I don't have to just make itsimple.
SPEAKER_02 (27:30):
Well, what what when did you realize that that music
was more to you than just soundsin your ears?
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
I think that it was in high school, um, when I was
like I had I had this, you know,this this relationship, you
know, in high school.
I thought I was in love and allthis, and had this relationship
go bad, and music was like theonly thing that I can really
like point to that I I wasconsistently using as a as a way
(28:02):
to kind of process and you knowsaying feel stuff.
You know what I'm saying?
It's just like sad.
I'm listening to sad songs, youknow what I'm saying?
Like over and over.
I don't know.
I think I listened to when I wasI think I listened to Bohemian
Rhapsody like you know, I'dlisten to it like three times in
a row before I went to bed.
You know what I'm saying?
God, I love that though.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
I love that though.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
And then and then and then and then, you know, or
or you know, that this is thisis this is I'm 46, so this is
like 90s, right?
So there's a lot of likeunderground, you know,
underground hip-hop type shitthat I was into as well.
And um Farside Lab cabinCalifornia, there's a song
called She Said, and it justlike a lot, there was a lot of
(28:42):
lot of ways that I would betapping into my emotions, you
know what I'm saying, throughthrough music in around that
time.
And I think that's when I wasrealizing that that helped me
realize it like this shit islike actually really important
to me.
It's powerful, yeah, yeah.
And I didn't I didn't I don'tthink I knew I I can't say I was
cognizant of it at that time,but now that you're asking me
(29:05):
now, and I'm thinking through,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
Yeah.
What was growing up like foryou?
What kind of kid were you?
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
Uh let's see.
I I played sports.
Yeah?
Yeah, so uh a lot of sports.
I was I was I was pretty good inmy neighborhood.
I grew up right over here.
Yeah, Calvin.
Uh Calvin Noble.
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
Yeah, just right over there.
Love that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Yeah.
Uh, you know, I peaked in middleschool winning the uh Gusmacker
trophies.
Uh you don't know aboutGusmacker?
No.
Gusmacker did like 300basketball.
SPEAKER_03 (29:46):
Uh-oh.
You're you're talking to askinny white nigga with a
mullet.
You understand?
Are you skinny?
The mullet was a freaking thing.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
I've made up for it since.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Yeah.
Um no, I was always social.
I was always social.
I was always like, you know whatI'm saying?
I was always trying to um I wasalways trying to get the girls
to laugh.
Um, I think in in fourth andfifth grade, I I tried to have
like I tried to date like everygirl in the class at some point
(30:24):
during those years.
It was I was I was wild.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
He was just trying.
He was just trying.
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And um, let's see, the sothere's that, there's uh I
definitely was I definitely Idefinitely was was I got into a
space where um you know what I'msaying, I was like like like
like like black nerd sort ofvibes, you know what I'm saying,
because I was you know like youremember like AP advanced
(30:51):
placement classes and honorsclasses, I was in those um but
the schools were you know I'msaying the schools were like
fifty to sixty percent blackother black kids were like you
know, we'd we'd be vibing in insome of the you know art gym
classes, but then like math,science, history, like I'm in a
(31:12):
class with like you know,majority white kids, you know
what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
And so then the black kids are like looking at
me like Where you going?
Like what's yeah, like whatwhat's what what's going on?
Um so there was there was that.
Um I was actually my my myfamily was very religious uh
growing up, so I was heavilyinvolved in church life.
(31:37):
Um my granddad was a pastor.
Uh and then that just likecarried down into like my mom,
you know what I'm saying, is isa very uh her faith is is very
important to her.
Um so we we just grew up inchurch all the time.
So I constantly had a lot oflike um my my relationship to to
(32:03):
church and and faith has changeda lot since that time.
But I would say from you knowbirth through high school, like
that was a a big part of mylife.
After high school, you know, Istarted to like kind of look
around and be like, yeah, likeis this really how you know you
that that's that's that's yeah.
(32:25):
Yeah, I feel like I feel likeyou want to get into it, but it
got more complex.
I don't know if it I don'tbecause I don't I that shit I
mean I don't have all theanswers.
SPEAKER_04 (32:35):
Nobody does, nobody does.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
I I I no, yeah, for sure, but like I'm also um I I
think there's some good thatcame out of that time.
Yeah you know what I'm saying?
And I think that there are someyou know what I'm saying?
I guess I I guess it's likeeverything.
Like I I know some Christiansthat that I think are great
people that um that think aredefinitely like have are making
(32:58):
positive impact in the world.
Yeah.
And then I think there's otherpeople that are Christians that
are that are using it as aweapon.
Not that are not, you know whatI'm saying, doing the opposite.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So um yeah, there was a I Ithat's a that that's a that's a
that's a that's a struggle forme.
Um in terms of just likefiguring out my place if I have
(33:27):
a place um when it comes to thatthat faith and and and belief
and God and Jesus and so youkinda waver a little bit.
You're like, I don't really knowand uh Yeah, in some ways I do
(33:48):
waver, yeah, yeah.
There's um Yeah, I didn't expectto talk about this shit.
But yeah, I I uh Yeah, I I i I Iwant to um I w I I want to have
uh a stronger belief than than Ido have.
SPEAKER_02 (34:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
And I don't why I don't I don't know why I want
to, but I think I want to.
Um but there's but but but thenI s there's there's so many just
fucked up things that I seepeople doing.
Yeah.
Or or or things that you knowthe the Christians say this and
(34:38):
then they do this or the Bibleor even fuck what whatever.
The Bible says Jesus says uhlove the poor.
SPEAKER_04 (34:50):
Right.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
I'm just saying, like, you know what I mean?
And and so it's just it yeah,that that I definitely think I I
wrestle mentally with with thatstuff.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
Because I have great friends that don't believe in
God at all.
SPEAKER_02 (35:06):
Yeah, I mean I don't I don't have religion in my
life.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
You know what I'm saying?
And and these people are arehave been great great friends,
great support, um have very realconversations, you know what I'm
saying?
Like you know what I'm saying?
Uh regard so I I guess likeacross the board, I'm just kind
of like, and maybe that's justlike something that uh I'm just
(35:32):
always gonna kind of like Idon't I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:34):
And I think it's okay not to know, right?
Like it's it's uh um I obviouslyit feels good to have uh uh a a
sense of place, right?
But it's um I'll be honest.
SPEAKER_01 (35:47):
Well I feel like the maybe I feel like this I feel
like this, you know what I'msaying, politically too.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
I feel like I feel like I don'tI don't feel like I fit in, you
know, entirely into like into acertain bucket into into uh
yeah, yeah.
I mean I obviously I I know Idon't fit into I know I don't I
(36:07):
don't I know I don't fit into aRepublican bucket, you know what
I'm saying?
But when I'm you know sayinglike um I I feel like why why do
we only have these two choices?
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Right.
Um the human like like beinghuman is is far more
complicated.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Yeah, there's there's so many layers of shit,
you know what I mean?
And it's like what there's gottabe something, there's gotta be
another way.
Yeah, feels like there's there'sthis other way that that that we
haven't you know given a name toor collectively figured out like
how to have like this a third orfourth party that represents
(36:44):
more thoughtful type shit.
Yeah, I feel I but I also feellike it's just hard to be
thoughtful about everything.
Like it'd be far easier to justbe like, nah, it's like this.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
And it's and I'm like this.
And since I'm like this, this iswhat I think and believe because
I am this.
You know what I mean?
As opposed to being like, no,like there's there's all these
other, there's there's hundredsof ways to approach this
problem.
Like, what's the best way in oursituation, you know, here in in
(37:19):
this region or in Grand Rapids,what's the best way to approach
this particular problem?
Taking into account theuniqueness of uh like the people
that are you know what I'msaying?
Like that's that's a lot ofwork.
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
But I do think that that's probably the best way.
But that's like, who has timefor that shit?
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
I mean, really.
No, you you don't have time,yeah.
Well, what about what about yourplace in the in the Grand Rapids
West Michigan creative scene?
SPEAKER_01 (37:42):
I don't know.
I I used to feel like um I Iused to I've I felt multiple
ways.
Sometimes I don't really like uhcreatives.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I think part of it is is is likethe the no the no barrier to
(38:05):
entry, uh self-proclaimed uhcreative.
Don't you do you have to be likegood?
Right.
No, I'm serious.
Right, no, I know what's thewhat's the how do and then now
you're mad at me because Ididn't go to like your event?
Bro, like where were you?
(38:27):
Like you you ten years ago,where were you?
You know what I'm saying?
Like when you know saying likelike I have I have things to do,
right?
Like I'm DJing all the time,right?
SPEAKER_02 (38:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Like I can't, I how I can't go.
I can't.
I'm I'm DJing.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, like support, or like likethis, like you should support me
because I'm creating this thing.
Well, what if I don't even likeit?
Like if we were like in New Yorkor something, like either your
shit is good or it's not good.
(39:02):
Maybe that's that's how Iimagine it to be.
Like in a in a in a market wherethere's like more creatives, you
know what I'm saying?
Also, I feel like I feel likecreatives, I feel like
entrepreneurs, creatives, maybethis is just people, like, are
constantly like trying to anglefor like this thing to get out
of you.
(39:23):
Like this this way that you can,you know what I'm saying?
Like, I feel like theconversations um are having this
like this aspect of how are yougoing to how how is this
conversation going to help memove forward?
I want you to be successful as acreative as long as like I'm
attached to your success and andyour success then helps my
(39:48):
success.
SPEAKER_02 (39:48):
Yeah.
Give me some of it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
You know what I'm saying?
I spent time I'm I'm I might bejaded, you know what I'm saying?
Because I spent time, I spent alot of time uh working with
entrepreneurs the last fouryears.
I was um, I don't know if youknow, I was uh I was running
social media uh for StartGarden.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:06):
Um so I was in a lot of spaces.
And there's some greatentrepreneurs in in Grand
Rapids, and then there's somethat are not great.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
Dog shit, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
You know what I'm saying?
And and um I was you see a lotof a lot of this sort of
conversations that are just likeangling for you know how to how
how they how how one can likemove up and acquire what they
need, you know what I'm saying?
Like these conversations are notbased on yeah, it's not real.
(40:37):
I mean, I guess it's realbecause they just want to figure
out how to make money.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
So I guess I guess it's real ina way, you know what I'm saying?
Like they're not talking to you,they're not talking to me.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (40:49):
If they're talking I guess I guess it's not real in a
way that I would appreciate.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (40:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or or or they're not they're notthey're not real in a way that
like their intentions are not.
They're not they're not they'renot expressing their true
intentions in the conversation,right?
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
Yeah, fuck I hate that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
So I'm so I so so now I'm checking myself.
I'm trying to make sure thatlike I'm doing that.
You know what I'm saying?
I I don't wanna That's huge.
I don't wanna be, I don't wannaI don't wanna contribute to to
that sort of energy.
You know, it's like it's like ifI can recognize if I can
recognize if if I'm intelligentenough to recognize a problem
that frustrates me from someoneelse, but I can't see it in
(41:34):
myself, that's that's that'd besad.
I I I I can't control the otherperson, but I can't control what
I do.
SPEAKER_02 (41:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
You know what I mean?
I can't control what I say andwhat I don't say, and I'm just
trying to I'm just trying tolike.
Yeah, man.
I'm just trying to get better.
SPEAKER_02 (41:55):
Dude, I love that.
This episode is supported byCreative Mornings Grand Rapids,
our local chapter in the world'slargest face-to-face creative
community.
Creative Mornings believeseveryone is creative and
everyone is welcome.
Their monthly lecture series isfree and spans over 240 cities
across 69 countries.
Visit Creative Mornings.com tosee what's going on with your
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(42:15):
And by Review, West Michigan'sArts and Entertainment Guide.
Find out what's going on in theworld of local music, art,
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And by Merchants and Makers, acollective of local artists,
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(42:36):
markets across West Michiganconnecting people with real
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Visit merchantsandmakers.com forinformation on upcoming events
and how to get involved.
Let's hop.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
(42:57):
What?
unknown (42:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Oh, I should have warned of the hard terms.
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
When I'm dead, uh I mean, I want my f I want I want
my my family um uh look at yourface just now.
Uh shit.
I mean, I want my kids to likeyou know be proud of uh what the
(43:26):
the the the things that theylearned uh from me.
Um I I just want them to feellike able to pursue, you know
what I'm saying, have haveconfidence to like pursue things
that they're passionate aboutand um and and and be honest
(43:47):
with themselves and and honestwith how they uh how they
interact with with with peoplein the world, you know what I'm
saying?
I just I don't I don't know whatthat looks like.
I just I want them to be able tosay like you know my dad you
know made positive contributionsto like the way I am now.
(44:08):
But I want them to like I justwant them to feel good about the
time that that that we spent,and I want them to know that you
know um doing shit for them.
SPEAKER_02 (44:18):
Finish the thought.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Creativity requires uh confidence, courage, you know
um some craziness.
SPEAKER_02 (44:32):
Some fuckery Yeah.
Uh what what would you like?
SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
What are people gonna say about you when you
die?
Before you die, what are yougonna eat?
Um, my last meal, Sanchez.
Yes.
I'm just at Sanchez, just likesmashing everything.
You're just running through theman.
It's like a three-hour, it'slike a you know, three hour
dinner.
SPEAKER_02 (44:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
Love that.
Like, all right, I'm ready togo.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Uh, what's the best or the worst advice you've ever
received?
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
Oh, I got this, man.
The best advice that I got.
I was so I was I was 18.
Um, there was this there wasthis bass player.
This is at my church.
There's this bass player at mychurch.
I just started to to rap and uhwithin like a year and a half or
around this time, and this bassplayer is like old OG bass
(45:25):
player, like killing it.
Like I would I would just likelisten to him on the bass.
Like there's a whole choirsinging, there's drummers,
there's organs, keyboards, youknow what I'm saying, amazing
voices, and I'm just likewatching the bass.
I'm like, what's he gonna donext?
Was it oh my god, this is sogood.
God, I love that.
So I would I would like justlike try to like talk to him
(45:47):
after church, you know what I'msaying?
Um, and he would he told me thatif I was to if I was gonna go
into music, that if I'm not ableto face rejection consistently,
that I shouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:04):
Yeah, it's gonna break you.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
He said like you're going to get rejected you know
twenty times for every onemoment of approval.
SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
How are you handling that?
How do you handle rejection?
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
So I expected that.
So then I was fine.
Well, because I feel like I've II I I just keep doing what I
want to do.
You know what I'm saying?
And rejection now doesn't looklike somebody like saying, like,
oh, your shit sucks.
It looks like I had thisresponse that the people were
going to have to this creativeproject that I did, or I had
(46:39):
this idea that when I when I putthis out here in the world,
they're gonna respond like this,and then they don't.
But I just I view it as likesomething I'm learning from
about myself, you know what I'msaying?
And it's like uh almost like atest, like like like can I can
I, you know, after I put thisout, can I be strong enough to
like keep going with a thing,and can I be aware enough to
(47:02):
like learn from what may havefailed or or didn't meet my
expectations, you know what I'msaying?
Then I then I then I go to likedamn, like I just gotta get
better.
SPEAKER_04 (47:13):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (47:16):
That's so healthy.
Do you understand?
That's so healthy.
SPEAKER_02 (47:19):
I don't know.
I I yeah, I guess.
What's your walk-up song?
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Oh shit.
Uh a walk-up song, man.
I damn, I don't know.
I should have this.
I should have this ready.
I'm always doing everybodyelse's walk-up song.
Like, like literally.
Literally, yeah, yeah.
I do a lot of corporate eventsnow.
Really?
Yeah, so that's like that's allthey want.
They don't, I mean, that'sthey're like, can you do you
(47:48):
have a good voice?
Yes.
Check that box off.
Can you play my walk-up song?
Yes, I can.
Can you start it at 18 seconds?
I don't know.
I don't know, Tom.
SPEAKER_04 (48:00):
You're asking a lot again.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
Uh, but yeah, yeah.
So um my walk-up song, man, itchanges all the time.
It's gonna change, it changes alot.
Right now, I think it's gonna beum it's gonna be every can I go
everybody wants to rule theworld.
Yeah! Hell yeah, you can.
We'll go with that.
We'll go with that.
It's either that or it'ssomething by outcast.
(48:24):
And and there's too much outcastin my head right now to to to
pinpoint to pinpoint one ofthose things.
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
But the vibe, I got I know the vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
I got the vibe.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
I love that.
Um, what uh what makes you feelmost like yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yo, man, like I everything when I have a day
that I'm like engaging in likeall the spaces in my life that
like that I like to to do.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Yeah, the stuff that matters.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
Yeah, but but I mean, that's a lot.
I'm saying, like, so like I I Ireally I really am I'm really am
feeling like I get to like bemost like myself.
SPEAKER_02 (49:04):
Well, that's kind of the life you you you because I
for yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
But yeah, but I don't have a boss that I report
to.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (49:12):
Yeah, so so Man, I I I am not built to have a boss.
It I I believe you did it foryears, didn't work.
SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:23):
I don't know how I never got fired.
SPEAKER_01 (49:24):
You never got fired?
SPEAKER_02 (49:25):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
Uh so they knew they needed you.
Yeah, so they put up with us.
So good.
SPEAKER_04 (49:31):
I'm so good.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
I'm serious, bro.
Like that, like these I thinkthat the the the types of people
that become bosses or or leaderslike in the corporate space,
like they also don't have likethe creative side and like the
ideas and the imagination.
So like that's why like they'realways going to need like like
(49:57):
creatives are always gonna beneeded in those spaces, you know
what I'm saying?
Because you I mean, you know,hence the name.
But like your your ideas are arewhat the that's the value.
That's something I learned.
I I learned that like I waslike, yo, like there was I so
many times it would happen to meso many times, and then I was
(50:19):
like, fuck, I I gotta stoptalking about ideas around
certain people.
SPEAKER_02 (50:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
You know what I'm saying?
Because like because they'rehungry and they want and and
they might have the time thatnight to do it, and it's not
gonna be the same that you did,but it but now it's done.
So like you you can't piggybackoff of it now, like, because
it's somebody else put it on.
Does that make sense?
(50:44):
Yes, yes.
Yeah, you probably had thishappen too, or you have ideas in
your head that you haven't doneyet.
SPEAKER_02 (50:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:52):
And then now somebody else does it.
Dude.
SPEAKER_03 (50:55):
That happens what, like I I like how you look down
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:03):
I that's that was it's just defeat.
You know, it's not moving my assfast enough.
Uh, and and I don't know, maybeit's because the idea wasn't
like uh it wasn't fully cookedyet.
SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (51:16):
Yeah, and my dumb ass talked about it, and so you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
Yeah.
But it's exciting to talk about.
It is, and sometimes you need totalk about it.
Because as you talk about it, ithelps you like process like
because you cause because whenyou when when I talk about an
idea and I see like your eyesand I see like how you react to
it, like it it makes me think ofit, think of the idea in a
(51:40):
different way.
Like, like you might see anangle to whatever the idea is
that I didn't see, and now I'mlike rethinking it and stuff
like that.
So like I guess like you gottajust like talk about it with
people that you someone youtrust.
Yeah, you know, I think that'sthe move.
Yeah, but don't talk about itwith like these business sharks.
SPEAKER_02 (52:03):
Do you do you have any regrets?
SPEAKER_01 (52:06):
Yeah, I mean I I I have regrets.
I mean I I I I wish I would havespent more time with uh my
grandparents um and and tried toto learn from them more, you
know what I'm saying?
Um I think I I feel like therewas just such a big difference
(52:28):
in um there was no internet andand our lifestyles were like so
so different, you know what I'msaying?
Like my granddad was a pastor,like I'm not you know what I'm
saying, and and and and and notlike cause because no, because I
cause I because I see right now,I feel like people can talk to
(52:52):
their grandparents about morelike shared things.
Because whether grandparents aregood at internet or not, good at
sound old as fuck.
I don't even know.
But you know what I'm saying?
Like, like, like we all there'slike more collective um exposure
(53:13):
to things now, yeah.
Right?
Like your you know, yourgrandparents also know about
shit that's happening, you know,whereas like in the 80s and 90s,
it was like, no, that's like oldpeople do that shit over here,
up here, yeah, and and youngpeople do this shit right here
and and the world shall not mix.
(53:33):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, they even dress different,bro.
Like, you remember like youremember like you know what I'm
saying?
You never had teachers that likeactually had the same shoes as
you, you know what I'm saying?
Like teachers were wearing likethey were tucking in their shit,
like they were wearing likeweird dress shoes and shit.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah now it's like now like thekids and the teachers are like
trying to get the Jordans.
(53:54):
Yeah, like they're all trying toget the job.
SPEAKER_02 (53:55):
You know, the teacher's the coolest one in the
room.
Yeah, that was not the case,man.
No, no, not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (53:59):
Not at all.
So I don't know.
So I I I I do wish I would haveum I wish that that that's a
that's a regret.
Um I think that another regret II think I have is is is
sometimes um not not pivotingout of um bad situations, you
(54:22):
know what I'm saying, sooner.
SPEAKER_02 (54:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:24):
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
It's hard to know a lot of times though, like when
you're in that situation.
Or or were you aware?
SPEAKER_01 (54:30):
Uh I felt like I felt uh I was I was aware, but I
also I think I I think I think Iso I think maybe this is a
different regret.
Regret to be like not beingstubborn.
Because I think I was I wasbeing stubborn, you know what
I'm saying?
I was like, no, like I'm inthis, I don't, I don't quit.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I find a way to make itwork, and you know what I'm
(54:54):
saying?
Yeah.
And and and and this is just ahard time right now, but it's
gonna be better.
SPEAKER_02 (54:59):
That's pride, right?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
Yeah, I think so.
I think so, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:03):
Yeah, and it's uh turns out it's it's way
healthier to just cut yourfucking losses, right?
And and take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (55:11):
Yeah.
Um and maybe just maybe justyeah, being able to admit that
being able to admit sooner thatthat I don't know what to do,
yeah or I don't know the bestway forward.
I just know that this isn'tworking.
This ain't it and and yeah.
Is that specific enough?
unknown (55:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:35):
Um all right, man.
Last question.
SPEAKER_01 (55:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:38):
Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (55:40):
Yes, I'm okay.
For real?
Yeah.
Yeah, thank you.
Uh I'm okay.
Good.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I I'm okay.
I'm emotional about like mykids, bro.
Like, that's what got me whenyou asked me that question about
the kids, man.
That that just they they stilllike me, you know what I'm
saying?
And um, I didn't have a goodrelationship with my dad, so um,
(56:04):
or my biological dad, and thenmy stepdad was was was very
solid.
Um, but then when I went throughmy divorce in 2007, they were
going through their divorce too,and the way that my stepdad
handled the divorce was like,you know, uh pretty pretty
shitty to me um in terms of justlike not saying anything.
(56:27):
He just didn't just didn't didlike left all the explanation of
what was happening to my mom.
And I I was old enough to handleit, but like, you know, my my
sister, uh that it it really itreally wasn't great for her.
And I just think it's like ashitty thing to do, you know
what I'm saying?
Like to leave it all on my momto to explain what's happening
(56:51):
and tell us and that weight thatshe's gonna be able to do.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah.
So um I say all that to say thatlike you know, I I feel like I I
want to be um I wanna I wanna behere for my for my kids, you
know what I'm saying, in thebest way uh possible.
(57:15):
You know what I'm saying?
And I want to support themregardless of like what path,
you know what I'm saying, theythey choose, you know what I'm
saying?
Right, yeah.
Like they might not be acreative entrepreneur.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, they might they might theymight have a boss.
They might, you know, like theymight go in a in a way that like
(57:36):
I wouldn't have gone.
Um, but I I just want whateverway they go, I want it to be
like what they really want.
I want it to be them.
I want them to do them, and Iwant to support them doing them,
you know what I'm saying?
That's huge, man.
I love that as much as possible.
That's that's that's well, youknow, I I just want to do what I
(57:59):
can, you know, and I I thinkthat's something I can do.
SPEAKER_02 (58:01):
I love that.
Your sweetheart.
SPEAKER_01 (58:05):
I love that.
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_02 (58:08):
All right, dude.
Before we get out of here, uh,where where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Oh, uh on on everyone's favorite platform,
Instagram.
Yeah, uh Instagram it is ab.everywhere.
And then online it'severythingab.com.
SPEAKER_02 (58:27):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (58:28):
No, thank you, man.
This is this has been fun.
I love I love just being able tolook at look at this uh
wrestling action figurecollection over here.
Dude, it's um my pride and joy.
You even got you got the BretHart with the leather jacket?
Yeah.
I'm not saying so.
Yeah.
(58:48):
So thank you for having me, man.
This is great.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02 (58:51):
Yeah, dude.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
This is uh this has been yeah, more um therapeutic
than I expected.
unknown (58:57):
Well, good.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (58:58):
All right, man, let's get out of here.
All right, peace.
SPEAKER_02 (59:09):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
And is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Aaron McCall,
and co-hosted by photographerJoe Madison.
Music is noises by Mike Maids inthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you get your podcast.
Do you have a good voice?
Yes.
Check that box off.
Can you play my walk up song?
Yes, I can.
Can you start it at 18 seconds?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (00:47):
I don't know Tommy.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
I've gotten my eyebrows done.
Have you?
Waxed?
I mean, I've not had anythingadded to it.
Like your freaky littleeyebrows.
Yes.
Alright, man.
Let's get your freaky deakyeyebrows into the game.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
They're always ready, bro.
SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
They're receding but ready.
Hey everybody, welcome back toBad Idea Social Club.
My name is Aaron McCall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
And I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
This time it's Adrian Butler.
Now, he he goes by A B, and Iwas given very specific
instructions, or I guessdirection, that uh he only goes
by Adrian if uh you're mad athim or or if you're madly in
love with him.
I am personally still trying towork out some very complicated
(01:57):
feelings.
So A B is for now.
For now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
A B is a DJ, and he's got hishands in like 50 other creative
projects too.
But very quickly, thisconversation became something
way more than about music.
(02:18):
Like, like we got into identityand rejection, um, using your
voice with intention and uhstaying uh honest in a world
that like keeps uh uh rewardingbullshit.
It's fucking gross out there,man.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
I completely agree, but I do think that there's two
sides to it, and I've beentrying to really focus on the
side that's pushing back againstthe bullshit.
SPEAKER_02 (02:45):
And I mean you kind of almost have to to keep
yourself seen to survive.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I think that there aresparks of it being very
prevalent that it's starting towork and that things are like
the pendulum is starting toswing the other way.
SPEAKER_02 (03:00):
I fucking hope so, man.
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, we we we we talkedabout family, we talked about
faith, uh, and his perspectiveon the creative community that
he's a part of uh here in GrandRapids and and what music is
beyond sound, you know.
Um and you know, we both we bothcome from like music
backgrounds.
(03:21):
Like dude, when I was growingup, music was all there was to
me.
There was nothing else.
SPEAKER_00 (03:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
It's weird, you know, because you and I, this
podcast, like like we talk a lotabout like being yourself and
like and like sticking to yourguns and all that stuff.
Uh but you know, the the secondyou put anything out into the
world, like as an artist or aslike a guy, even there's this
pressure to shape it and cleanit up and and make it land a
(03:51):
certain way.
SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
I I find for myself that's actually that's starting
to play a part earlier in theprocess before I even release
something.
I'll give you an example.
I've been wanting to put outthis behind the scenes video for
a shoe I did recently that Ijust find really fascinating,
and I I want to share it withpeople that like our stuff.
But I have this one idea that Iwant to accomplish for it, and I
(04:15):
can't get over that hurdle, andit's literally stopping me from
creating that content.
So wanting to shape it and cleanit and make it what I want is
preventing me at the door fromeven getting it out.
SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
For me, like it's so easy to get lost in the in the
Instagram of it.
Like, I know what I like as muchas I want to fight against uh
creating for approval becausethat sucks.
Soul sucking.
Dude, I fall into it.
If if anybody on here follows meon Instagram, and if you see
(04:47):
like like long stretches whereI'm not posting anything, yeah,
that's because that's becauseI'm having a moment.
Okay that's because I'm dealingwith it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:57):
We need to huddle around you in those moments.
Aaron's having a moment.
I just need dude.
Sometimes I just need a goodhug, you know?
Um, okay, so before we dive in,don't forget to follow wherever
you're listening.
Leave a five-star review, anddon't forget to tell your
friends.
SPEAKER_02 (05:11):
Also, this thing runs off of merch sales,
listener support, and reviews.
So if you get a minute, go giveus a little bit of love.
Uh, maybe buy a t-shirt.
Um, and real just also, realquick, you're gonna see like a
little a little something on theend of my nose.
Um, it's just dry skin, it's nota burger.
SPEAKER_05 (05:32):
Grow up.
SPEAKER_02 (05:34):
Grow up.
Right.
Um, anyways, try to ignore it.
And here's my conversation withA B.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
Is this good?
I feel like this is good.
This sounds good.
Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
Yeah.
But man, you've got you've gotthis presence about you.
You know that.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
Like uh, yes, I do now.
unknown (05:53):
Good, good.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
Because it's like it's like dude, it's like it's
it's the way you move, the wayyou show up.
It all feels very intentional.
SPEAKER_01 (06:00):
I like people, bro.
So like if I get to be aroundpeople, that I'm just I'm gonna
be happy.
It's that simple.
Uh kinda.
I think that that's how I that'show I learn.
I learn from people.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I I'm sucked at studying.
College was not great for me.
Yeah.
(06:21):
But if I can get into aconversation with people, I gain
knowledge, I gain likeunderstanding um of them and and
probably of myself too.
So it's probably selfish alittle bit too, right?
All good though.
You know, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
I think I think the level of confidence that like
you bring into a room is is andand maybe I'm pretty sure.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
No, you're saying this more than anybody that I've
heard say this uh in a longtime.
I I I don't I think I thinkprobably because I got rejected,
bro.
Like that's gotta be what it is.
What do you mean?
I got getting rejected in highschool by girls and losing, um,
get you know, going through adivorce, and you know saying
like these things where you liketry to fit in and and you don't,
(07:08):
and then you're then yourealize, well, fuck it.
Like, I tried to be this thingfor these people, it didn't
work.
I I just gotta do me like ashard as possible.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
So so it's not something that was like Does
that make sense?
It does make sense, uh, becauseI was also not like accepted,
you know what I mean?
I mean, I had dude, I had a Ihad a mullet till I was a
freshman in high school.
And it's like in not in not likein not like the cool ones that
you see today, like it was bad.
Like I had like I with I hadhair parted down the middle,
(07:40):
yeah, and then it only came tolike like just below my eyes,
and then went down to the middleof my back.
Yeah, that was that was talkabout talk about having bad luck
with girls.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
Hey, hey, that that was um, you know, and and I
would have to say, like, likewhite dudes didn't get dope
haircuts back then.
No, it wasn't the thing.
Crossover.
SPEAKER_02 (08:06):
And honestly, I feel like we're still kind of working
on it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Still trying to figure it out.
Yeah, yeah, but some of themullets I see now have some like
some fade to them, so they'relike, you know, they make a
little more sense.
Yeah, there's a little sense.
Yeah, yeah.
But I I would say you probablyyou probably yeah, that was a
hard time for you.
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Man, so so so the confidence that you that you
kind of carry around today.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
I mean, I think it's because you have to find that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%.
100%.
I had to find it, I still dohave to find it, you know what I
mean?
Um there's I feel like there'salways um something that comes
up that you know makes mequestion how good I am at what
I'm doing, or um if I need topivot or adjust.
(08:56):
I feel like that's that's like aconstant thing to have to push
back against or figure out insome s some way.
Sometimes it's a big way,sometimes it's a small way.
I DJ primarily, right?
You know what I mean?
Um 46, you know what I mean?
Um listening to all the newmusic is not my natural place
(09:19):
now.
Yeah, when I was when I wasfirst starting DJing when I was
in my early twenties, listeningto all the new music was all I
did, you know what I'm saying?
I had energy, time, I didn'thave to sleep as much.
Yeah.
Um I I could just I was alwaysyou know, and and you and I was
a I was I was in differentenvironments, you know what I'm
(09:40):
saying?
I was hanging out with friendsall the time.
It was like music, music, music,music.
I was making music, I wasrapping, I was just like music,
music, music.
Now I'm 46, I I've got kids.
You know, say my my oldestdaughter is getting married um
this September.
Yeah, that's crazy.
She's 23.
Um, shout out to Amara.
SPEAKER_04 (10:01):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:02):
Um, and then and I've got an eight-year-old,
11-year-old, and and I and mywife, who I love and love
spending time with.
You know what I'm saying?
So my time is not the same.
So listening to music, new musicis like some of it, some of it
is good, some of it sucks, andand sometimes I'm like, I don't
have time to just I don't haveeight hours to just To just get
(10:25):
in it.
To just get in it like that, youknow what I mean?
So then that means that UmThere'll be a man I'm being
vulnerable.
There'll be a DJ set where I IDJ and I'm like, oh shit, like I
should have, should I havegotten you know what I'm saying?
Should I have gone deeper intolike this certain space?
Was I not able to get as deepinto it because I don't know it
(10:47):
or like it even?
Because I mean honestly, there'ssome new music that that I just
don't like.
SPEAKER_02 (10:53):
And you still gotta bring that forward.
SPEAKER_01 (10:55):
But I still gotta I still gotta be relevant, you
know what I'm saying?
Sometimes I got so so sosometimes I'm trying to like use
some of the new music to hookpeople into music that this new
music was influenced by.
Does that make sense?
Oh, I love that.
Does that make sense?
You know what I'm saying?
So I'm like, I'll give you likesome of this new shit that you
like so that I can like show youlike the segue into the other
(11:17):
shit that this came from thatthat I like more.
SPEAKER_02 (11:19):
So then when you're like in it, right?
Um do you find yourself likeleading the room or are you
responding to it?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Uh I respond to it and then I lead it.
What is that is that process?
It's like I lead it and then Iand then I respond and it's like
a call and response the wholetime.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's like it gives.
It's like so it it dep itdepends on like if I'm if I'm if
I'm the only one DJing, then Iget to set the room, right?
So I get to decide like how do Iwant people to feel when they
(11:51):
get in here.
You know what I'm saying?
And then I I do what I wantpeople to feel.
But then if they're notresponding the way I want to,
then I now I'm starting to like,you know, I I it's like it's
like you have you you make achoice, and then you have three
choices that that like come fromthat, and you decide like which
(12:13):
it's like that path.
Like we're gonna we're gonnawe're all going to walk down
this path, you know, saying tothis lake, and the lake is like
the party.
But along that path, there'sthree other ways you can go.
You can go this way that's likemore treacherous and
adventurous, you can take likethis chill path to the lake, or
(12:33):
you could take this one in themiddle where you like stop and
get some coffee and have somedrinks, and then and then now
you're at the lake.
You know, does it does that makesense?
Yeah.
So then I'm like, each time Iplay a song, I'm trying to
decide like I'm reading thecrowd, and I'm like, oh, like
they're vibing like in this way,so then this other choice will
probably be better for them.
They're vibing in this way, thischoice will be better for the
(12:55):
does that yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
So so so do you go in with a set list or do you
just kind of just feel it andgo?
SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
I have I don't have a set list.
So I don't, I don't, I don'thave a set list.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
That sounds terrible.
SPEAKER_01 (13:06):
In terms It's a lot of work mentally.
I have I I do have I have aplaylist of of songs that I know
I'm going to play at some point.
Um, and I I do have like I wouldsay three to five ideas of like
how I'm gonna start, and then Ido have some ideas of like
(13:26):
something in the middle, but Idon't have like a set list, like
like if I was you've been in aband.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Yeah, I don't have a set list like that.
I don't have like I'm doing thissong and then this song and then
this song and then this song.
unknown (13:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
There are some DJs that do that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
You're you're you're probably taking out the like
really creative element of likeI think so.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
I think so.
I think I uh I think it's a giveand take.
I think you have to If I had aset list, I think um I could
nail some transitions.
There'll be less mistakes, youknow what I'm saying?
Like I'm not you know I mean,like there'll be some really
cool moments where somethinghappens musically that that uh
obviously I've rehearsed it andthat sort of thing, you know
(14:08):
what I'm saying?
So like precision-wise, likethat that could be cool.
I I just I just like feeding offthe energy in the room and and
seeing what people are showingyou that they want and and
pushing into that, and then andthen within that finding ways to
to do my thing.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
That's cool as shit.
How did you how did you get intothis in the first place?
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
I just bro, like every time everything I was at
where there was a DJ, I was justlike, oh, like I want to be the
DJ.
I want to be the one that getsto decide the songs, because why
are you playing why are youplaying this amazing song right
now when everybody's eatingdinner and nobody can enjoy it?
Yeah, right.
You know what I'm saying?
Or or or why why are welistening to the same, like I
(14:53):
don't know, at that time it musthave been like I was young, I
was like probably in highschool, and I remember going to
some weddings with my parentsand shit, and like old people,
and it must have been likecelebrate by cooling the gang or
something.
Yeah, right.
You know what I'm saying?
That must have been like thesong that like it was always
played, and I was just like,what?
Like all the music, and that'swhat that's the that's the only
one with so much good music,like why is it that?
(15:17):
You know what I mean?
Um I just wanted to.
I just wanted to I just wantedto express myself with the with
the music and bring peopletogether, really.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_02 (15:28):
So you're you're you're really like it's your job
to set the vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Like, if if you're off, I I feel like you're
probably oh if I'm off it'sgonna be, yeah, no, it's not
gonna be great for it.
Right?
But when you're on, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So the point is that yeah, thegoal is to be on.
So like it's it it becomes astress relief though, honestly.
Like DJing?
SPEAKER_02 (15:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Oh man, like I I can't think about it.
It's it's one of the few thingsthat I mean you probably had
this with with your creativework.
You know, when you get into it,you can't really think about
other things.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, you in a way you can,but like your focus is, you
know, if you're locked in, likeyou you get to you get to be in
that space for hours, you knowwhat I mean?
(16:10):
Yeah.
And there's not very many timeswhere I I get to do something
where like I can completely likeblock out like all the other
noise, like, you know what I'msaying, politics, social issues,
you know what I'm saying?
Um the argument that I had withmy wife last night, you know
what I'm saying?
Yeah.
The you know issues with mykids' teachers or whatever
whatever it could be.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yeah, man, and so so you have a voice and you have
one that like people listen to,right?
So can you talk to me a littlebit about like the importance of
actually using it?
SPEAKER_01 (16:41):
It's important to use it, uh uh uh obviously, um,
but I kind of feel like I gottapick spots.
SPEAKER_02 (16:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:50):
Like um, I can't just say the shit that I want to
say non-stop all the time.
I feel like what especially whatI've noticed is is people you
you come to expect it fromcertain sources, and then it
becomes you know noise.
(17:11):
Yeah, it just it's just there.
And you just oh of course, ofcourse.
And I'm noticing that everybodyis blocking people that have
different views.
SPEAKER_02 (17:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
You know what I'm saying?
Which I I think at firstprobably makes sense.
You know what I'm saying?
But I feel like what's what'sthe end goal?
If the end goal, if the end goalis to like figure out how to
live in the planet together,then we we can't just block
everything that doesn't agreewith everything that I agree
(17:43):
with.
I'm guilty of that.
I'm not saying I'm not.
Yeah.
It's hard.
It is.
It's stressful, bro.
Like like trying to trying totalk to people that don't uh
want to understand what you'resaying.
Especially or or if you don't,or or people that you that or
it's difficult on my end, it'sdifficult to talk to people that
(18:03):
I struggle to respect.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I I don't want to just putthis on everybody else.
Like, sometimes I'm I'm inconversations with people and
I'm like, yeah, like I don'teven know if if I respect you.
I don't even I don't think Ilike you.
You know what I'm saying?
So the but but I but I have tolike kind of fight through that
to be to be like, no, like thisperson has a experience that
(18:26):
they've been through that Idon't just like I feel like they
don't understand mine, theyprobably feel like I don't
understand theirs.
And and somebody has to try tounderstand.
Somebody's gotta move a little.
Yeah.
But but yeah, so but if I if I'mif I'm speaking up on racial
issues or social issues, youknow, saying non-stop all the
(18:49):
time, like one, like I don't I Ipersonally don't know that I
feel like I have authority to todo that um entirely.
What do you think?
You know what I'm saying?
Like authority, like I like likeexpertise.
Not authority, expertise, Iguess, is a better word.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't I don't want to presentas though you know, saying, like
(19:10):
you have all the numbers and allof this shit.
I have, you know what I'msaying, I have research and data
to to back up like these things.
Some of the shit, like, I'm justlike, nah, like this is how this
is what happened to me in mylife.
SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:22):
And and and it's real, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
Um, but also I wanna I want todo it in a thoughtful way too.
Like I want I want it to bethought provoking when I when I
say something.
Like I don't want, I don't wantto just blah and like like like
like it with no path or or wayto improve, right?
(19:43):
Like if I'm calling out racists,if I'm calling out racists, then
then then what's what's the endgoal two?
Do I want do I want the raciststo just like you know uh
evaporate and die?
Or do I want them or do you wantthem to like to think and try to
(20:06):
grow and grow and then like andthen then maybe like influence
like another person that likeI'm never gonna talk to that
they're gonna talk to you knowyou know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
So how do you I mean not that there's even any racist
out here, they're non-existent.
I was just coming up with thefake problem.
SPEAKER_04 (20:22):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (20:27):
Well, man, how do you handle like the the trolls
and the haters and the bullshitof it all?
SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Yeah, I've come accustomed to haters.
I I don't even know haters,trolls, bullshit.
Um I can only do what I can do.
You know what I'm saying?
I can't, I can't withoutconversations and and actual,
you know what I'm saying?
Like I I'm not so I I I don't Idon't engage in like arguments
(20:53):
in comment sections, you knowwhat I'm saying?
I'm not I'm not that you can't.
Well you can.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
Well, yeah, yeah, you can, but you can't do it in
any like way that's gonna likemove the needle.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
No it doesn't yeah, I I I have I have had I have
tried to have conversations withwith people though, you know
what I'm saying?
I that and that's that that partis the work, and that's like
it's like an all-day thing.
SPEAKER_02 (21:17):
Yeah, and it's gonna be uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
It's uncomfortable and and it never I I have never
come I haven't I've not comeaway from a conversation like
that feeling like something wasresolved, you know what I'm
saying?
Or or that there was a a clearpath to a better way, yeah, or
or even any kind ofunderstanding, right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:38):
Oh, I feel like everybody now is so set in what
they believe and and and withthe Instagram of it all, like
they're just being fed the sameshit that just like reinforces
yeah, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
And even if I even if it's something I agree with,
I still see it.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, yeah, I'm like I agreewith this, but like so but like
what now what yeah, yeah, bro.
I it's it's wild, and I'm sickof Instagram, anyways.
Instagram is like I have alove-hate relationship with it.
(22:14):
I like it, I like um being ableto express myself freely, right?
Like I can say something, I canyou know create content, video,
photo, music, record me talkingsome shit to the camera, put it
out there, let people know how Ifeel, what I think.
Um but then at the same time,everybody can do that.
SPEAKER_02 (22:35):
Right.
Well, and and and for me.
Like I think the reason why Ihave such a love-hate
relationship with Instagram isthat like I feel like for so
long, like we worked so hard tolike build an audience and uh
build a brand and everything.
And I feel like the the um thepower that Instagram has where
(22:56):
they're just like we're actuallynot gonna show this to anybody.
SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
Yeah, that shit is crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Like I don't see hardly anybody that I want to
see.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
No, no, I have to search the name of the person's
content that I want to see.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah, and like, dude, I forget.
I forget about people, I forgetabout stuff, and then one day
it'll just randomly come backand I'm like, oh my god, what
did I miss?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Yeah, yeah.
Or or or your your friends, youractual friends, yeah, will will
post something and you won't seeit, and then you'll be talking
to them and they'll talk to youlike like they think you saw it.
SPEAKER_04 (23:29):
It's a little presumptive.
SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
And I'm like, nah, dude, I yeah, it's it's wild.
It's wild.
And and it's also this wholelike Instagram is this free
platform, self-expression,whatever.
It's like you said, Instagram isnow deciding what people see.
Instagram is also deciding umhow to how to like it's it's
(23:54):
helping businesses sell thingsnow, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, like that part.
Like I'm I'm I'm looking atlike, oh, my friend was working
out.
Oh, look at their kids.
Oh, I should buy.
I haven't bought anything fromBillionaire Boys Club in a long
time.
What?
What is this?
Uh scroll, oh shit, some newshoes dropped.
I should like yeah, you know,it's like a constant.
(24:17):
Or or it's or I'm getting in myfeed, I'm getting a whole bunch
of suggestions.
Of just like it's just like,it's just like, I'm like, do I
follow, do I even follow this?
No, this is just a suggestion.
Dude, I'm this is anothersuggestion.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
On our bad idea social club account, like that's
all our feed is, is just likereally look at all this other
stuff.
I'm like, well, where'severybody else that I already
said yes to?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_02 (24:42):
It's infuriating a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
Are you thinking that you uh we gotta get back to
like you know, physical, tactileuh communication style for you
know I'm saying for for whateverit is, you know what I mean?
Like it seems like it's gotta goback to that.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Well, and I and I kind of feel like we're already
starting to move that waybecause it's like I find that
sending an email, like even solet's just go back a little bit,
right?
Okay, I'm I'm finding sending anemail is far more productive
than posting something onInstagram.
SPEAKER_01 (25:16):
Oh, for real?
SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Those people are engaged.
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
So, like, what's one more step back from that, right?
It's like talking to somebodyface to face.
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
Yeah, you know?
Okay, no, that's good.
Email.
Do you like sending theseemails?
Is that fun?
No, it's necessary that itsucks.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
And it's like, and this is okay, here's the here's
the designer in me.
It's like I've never seen anemail where I'm like, that's a
good-looking email.
Ever.
And it breaks me a little bit tosend that shit out.
Oh man.
What keeps you into uh intomusic?
(26:01):
Because music is kind of thebackbone of what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Yeah, um, I mean, it it feeds me, you know what I'm
saying?
Yeah.
Soul, spirit, whatever.
Um, that that that part.
But also, I do feel like it'sone of those things that um it's
it's very instinctive um in inthe way that it gets responses
(26:28):
from people.
And I I love to see yeah to see.
But it's immediate, right?
Yeah, you know right away.
You know what I'm saying?
So I don't have to we don't haveto bullshit.
SPEAKER_04 (26:38):
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
You know what I'm saying?
Like there's I get in so manyconversations where people are,
you know, you know how peopleare.
People just talk and they justtalk and they just talk, and
you're like, what are you tryingto say?
You know what I'm saying?
What do you what do you reallymean?
Like, what are you really gonnado?
You know what I mean?
Like, like all those things.
Yeah.
And I I'm really starting to tryto I'm trying to simplify, you
(27:00):
know, saying my my life or likemy my thoughts as well.
And and I'm really at a placewhere I'm just like, you know
what?
Like, fuck what people say, itonly matters what they do.
So I love that so and so when itcomes to DJing, I get that.
(27:21):
You know what I'm saying?
Like, like if if if the peoplemove, then it's then it's good.
You know what I mean?
I don't have to just make itsimple.
SPEAKER_02 (27:30):
Well, what what when did you realize that that music
was more to you than just soundsin your ears?
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
I think that it was in high school, um, when I was
like I had I had this, you know,this this relationship, you
know, in high school.
I thought I was in love and allthis, and had this relationship
go bad, and music was like theonly thing that I can really
like point to that I I wasconsistently using as a as a way
(28:02):
to kind of process and you knowsaying feel stuff.
You know what I'm saying?
It's just like sad.
I'm listening to sad songs, youknow what I'm saying?
Like over and over.
I don't know.
I think I listened to when I wasI think I listened to Bohemian
Rhapsody like you know, I'dlisten to it like three times in
a row before I went to bed.
You know what I'm saying?
God, I love that though.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
I love that though.
SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
And then and then and then and then, you know, or
or you know, that this is thisis this is I'm 46, so this is
like 90s, right?
So there's a lot of likeunderground, you know,
underground hip-hop type shitthat I was into as well.
And um Farside Lab cabinCalifornia, there's a song
called She Said, and it justlike a lot, there was a lot of
(28:42):
lot of ways that I would betapping into my emotions, you
know what I'm saying, throughthrough music in around that
time.
And I think that's when I wasrealizing that that helped me
realize it like this shit islike actually really important
to me.
It's powerful, yeah, yeah.
And I didn't I didn't I don'tthink I knew I I can't say I was
cognizant of it at that time,but now that you're asking me
(29:05):
now, and I'm thinking through,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:07):
Yeah.
What was growing up like foryou?
What kind of kid were you?
SPEAKER_01 (29:14):
Uh let's see.
I I played sports.
Yeah?
Yeah, so uh a lot of sports.
I was I was I was pretty good inmy neighborhood.
I grew up right over here.
Yeah, Calvin.
Uh Calvin Noble.
SPEAKER_02 (29:31):
Yeah, just right over there.
Love that.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
Yeah.
Uh, you know, I peaked in middleschool winning the uh Gusmacker
trophies.
Uh you don't know aboutGusmacker?
No.
Gusmacker did like 300basketball.
SPEAKER_03 (29:46):
Uh-oh.
You're you're talking to askinny white nigga with a
mullet.
You understand?
Are you skinny?
The mullet was a freaking thing.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_03 (30:00):
I've made up for it since.
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
Yeah.
Um no, I was always social.
I was always social.
I was always like, you know whatI'm saying?
I was always trying to um I wasalways trying to get the girls
to laugh.
Um, I think in in fourth andfifth grade, I I tried to have
like I tried to date like everygirl in the class at some point
(30:24):
during those years.
It was I was I was wild.
SPEAKER_04 (30:28):
He was just trying.
He was just trying.
SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And um, let's see, the sothere's that, there's uh I
definitely was I definitely Idefinitely was was I got into a
space where um you know what I'msaying, I was like like like
like like black nerd sort ofvibes, you know what I'm saying,
because I was you know like youremember like AP advanced
(30:51):
placement classes and honorsclasses, I was in those um but
the schools were you know I'msaying the schools were like
fifty to sixty percent blackother black kids were like you
know, we'd we'd be vibing in insome of the you know art gym
classes, but then like math,science, history, like I'm in a
(31:12):
class with like you know,majority white kids, you know
what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
And so then the black kids are like looking at
me like Where you going?
Like what's yeah, like whatwhat's what what's going on?
Um so there was there was that.
Um I was actually my my myfamily was very religious uh
growing up, so I was heavilyinvolved in church life.
(31:37):
Um my granddad was a pastor.
Uh and then that just likecarried down into like my mom,
you know what I'm saying, is isa very uh her faith is is very
important to her.
Um so we we just grew up inchurch all the time.
So I constantly had a lot oflike um my my relationship to to
(32:03):
church and and faith has changeda lot since that time.
But I would say from you knowbirth through high school, like
that was a a big part of mylife.
After high school, you know, Istarted to like kind of look
around and be like, yeah, likeis this really how you know you
that that's that's that's yeah.
(32:25):
Yeah, I feel like I feel likeyou want to get into it, but it
got more complex.
I don't know if it I don'tbecause I don't I that shit I
mean I don't have all theanswers.
SPEAKER_04 (32:35):
Nobody does, nobody does.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
I I I no, yeah, for sure, but like I'm also um I I
think there's some good thatcame out of that time.
Yeah you know what I'm saying?
And I think that there are someyou know what I'm saying?
I guess I I guess it's likeeverything.
Like I I know some Christiansthat that I think are great
people that um that think aredefinitely like have are making
(32:58):
positive impact in the world.
Yeah.
And then I think there's otherpeople that are Christians that
are that are using it as aweapon.
Not that are not, you know whatI'm saying, doing the opposite.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So um yeah, there was a I Ithat's a that that's a that's a
that's a that's a struggle forme.
Um in terms of just likefiguring out my place if I have
(33:27):
a place um when it comes to thatthat faith and and and belief
and God and Jesus and so youkinda waver a little bit.
You're like, I don't really knowand uh Yeah, in some ways I do
(33:48):
waver, yeah, yeah.
There's um Yeah, I didn't expectto talk about this shit.
But yeah, I I uh Yeah, I I i I Iwant to um I w I I want to have
uh a stronger belief than than Ido have.
SPEAKER_02 (34:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
And I don't why I don't I don't know why I want
to, but I think I want to.
Um but there's but but but thenI s there's there's so many just
fucked up things that I seepeople doing.
Yeah.
Or or or things that you knowthe the Christians say this and
(34:38):
then they do this or the Bibleor even fuck what whatever.
The Bible says Jesus says uhlove the poor.
SPEAKER_04 (34:50):
Right.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
I'm just saying, like, you know what I mean?
And and so it's just it yeah,that that I definitely think I I
wrestle mentally with with thatstuff.
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
Because I have great friends that don't believe in
God at all.
SPEAKER_02 (35:06):
Yeah, I mean I don't I don't have religion in my
life.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
You know what I'm saying?
And and these people are arehave been great great friends,
great support, um have very realconversations, you know what I'm
saying?
Like you know what I'm saying?
Uh regard so I I guess likeacross the board, I'm just kind
of like, and maybe that's justlike something that uh I'm just
(35:32):
always gonna kind of like Idon't I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:34):
And I think it's okay not to know, right?
Like it's it's uh um I obviouslyit feels good to have uh uh a a
sense of place, right?
But it's um I'll be honest.
SPEAKER_01 (35:47):
Well I feel like the maybe I feel like this I feel
like this, you know what I'msaying, politically too.
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
I feel like I feel like I don'tI don't feel like I fit in, you
know, entirely into like into acertain bucket into into uh
yeah, yeah.
I mean I obviously I I know Idon't fit into I know I don't I
(36:07):
don't I know I don't fit into aRepublican bucket, you know what
I'm saying?
But when I'm you know sayinglike um I I feel like why why do
we only have these two choices?
SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
Right.
Um the human like like beinghuman is is far more
complicated.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Yeah, there's there's so many layers of shit,
you know what I mean?
And it's like what there's gottabe something, there's gotta be
another way.
Yeah, feels like there's there'sthis other way that that that we
haven't you know given a name toor collectively figured out like
how to have like this a third orfourth party that represents
(36:44):
more thoughtful type shit.
Yeah, I feel I but I also feellike it's just hard to be
thoughtful about everything.
Like it'd be far easier to justbe like, nah, it's like this.
SPEAKER_02 (36:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
And it's and I'm like this.
And since I'm like this, this iswhat I think and believe because
I am this.
You know what I mean?
As opposed to being like, no,like there's there's all these
other, there's there's hundredsof ways to approach this
problem.
Like, what's the best way in oursituation, you know, here in in
(37:19):
this region or in Grand Rapids,what's the best way to approach
this particular problem?
Taking into account theuniqueness of uh like the people
that are you know what I'msaying?
Like that's that's a lot ofwork.
SPEAKER_02 (37:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
But I do think that that's probably the best way.
But that's like, who has timefor that shit?
SPEAKER_02 (37:34):
I mean, really.
No, you you don't have time,yeah.
Well, what about what about yourplace in the in the Grand Rapids
West Michigan creative scene?
SPEAKER_01 (37:42):
I don't know.
I I used to feel like um I Iused to I've I felt multiple
ways.
Sometimes I don't really like uhcreatives.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I think part of it is is is likethe the no the no barrier to
(38:05):
entry, uh self-proclaimed uhcreative.
Don't you do you have to be likegood?
Right.
No, I'm serious.
Right, no, I know what's thewhat's the how do and then now
you're mad at me because Ididn't go to like your event?
Bro, like where were you?
(38:27):
Like you you ten years ago,where were you?
You know what I'm saying?
Like when you know saying likelike I have I have things to do,
right?
Like I'm DJing all the time,right?
SPEAKER_02 (38:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Like I can't, I how I can't go.
I can't.
I'm I'm DJing.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, like support, or like likethis, like you should support me
because I'm creating this thing.
Well, what if I don't even likeit?
Like if we were like in New Yorkor something, like either your
shit is good or it's not good.
(39:02):
Maybe that's that's how Iimagine it to be.
Like in a in a in a market wherethere's like more creatives, you
know what I'm saying?
Also, I feel like I feel likecreatives, I feel like
entrepreneurs, creatives, maybethis is just people, like, are
constantly like trying to anglefor like this thing to get out
of you.
(39:23):
Like this this way that you can,you know what I'm saying?
Like, I feel like theconversations um are having this
like this aspect of how are yougoing to how how is this
conversation going to help memove forward?
I want you to be successful as acreative as long as like I'm
attached to your success and andyour success then helps my
(39:48):
success.
SPEAKER_02 (39:48):
Yeah.
Give me some of it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
You know what I'm saying?
I spent time I'm I'm I might bejaded, you know what I'm saying?
Because I spent time, I spent alot of time uh working with
entrepreneurs the last fouryears.
I was um, I don't know if youknow, I was uh I was running
social media uh for StartGarden.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (40:06):
Um so I was in a lot of spaces.
And there's some greatentrepreneurs in in Grand
Rapids, and then there's somethat are not great.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
Dog shit, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
You know what I'm saying?
And and um I was you see a lotof a lot of this sort of
conversations that are just likeangling for you know how to how
how they how how one can likemove up and acquire what they
need, you know what I'm saying?
Like these conversations are notbased on yeah, it's not real.
(40:37):
I mean, I guess it's realbecause they just want to figure
out how to make money.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
So I guess I guess it's real ina way, you know what I'm saying?
Like they're not talking to you,they're not talking to me.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (40:49):
If they're talking I guess I guess it's not real in a
way that I would appreciate.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:53):
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01 (40:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or or or they're not they're notthey're not real in a way that
like their intentions are not.
They're not they're not they'renot expressing their true
intentions in the conversation,right?
SPEAKER_02 (41:06):
Yeah, fuck I hate that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
So I'm so I so so now I'm checking myself.
I'm trying to make sure thatlike I'm doing that.
You know what I'm saying?
I I don't wanna That's huge.
I don't wanna be, I don't wannaI don't wanna contribute to to
that sort of energy.
You know, it's like it's like ifI can recognize if I can
recognize if if I'm intelligentenough to recognize a problem
that frustrates me from someoneelse, but I can't see it in
(41:34):
myself, that's that's that'd besad.
I I I I can't control the otherperson, but I can't control what
I do.
SPEAKER_02 (41:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (41:43):
You know what I mean?
I can't control what I say andwhat I don't say, and I'm just
trying to I'm just trying tolike.
Yeah, man.
I'm just trying to get better.
SPEAKER_02 (41:55):
Dude, I love that.
This episode is supported byCreative Mornings Grand Rapids,
our local chapter in the world'slargest face-to-face creative
community.
Creative Mornings believeseveryone is creative and
everyone is welcome.
Their monthly lecture series isfree and spans over 240 cities
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Visit Creative Mornings.com tosee what's going on with your
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(42:15):
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(42:36):
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Let's hop.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
(42:57):
What?
unknown (42:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Oh, I should have warned of the hard terms.
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
When I'm dead, uh I mean, I want my f I want I want
my my family um uh look at yourface just now.
Uh shit.
I mean, I want my kids to likeyou know be proud of uh what the
(43:26):
the the the things that theylearned uh from me.
Um I I just want them to feellike able to pursue, you know
what I'm saying, have haveconfidence to like pursue things
that they're passionate aboutand um and and and be honest
(43:47):
with themselves and and honestwith how they uh how they
interact with with with peoplein the world, you know what I'm
saying?
I just I don't I don't know whatthat looks like.
I just I want them to be able tosay like you know my dad you
know made positive contributionsto like the way I am now.
(44:08):
But I want them to like I justwant them to feel good about the
time that that that we spent,and I want them to know that you
know um doing shit for them.
SPEAKER_02 (44:18):
Finish the thought.
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Creativity requires uh confidence, courage, you know
um some craziness.
SPEAKER_02 (44:32):
Some fuckery Yeah.
Uh what what would you like?
SPEAKER_01 (44:39):
What are people gonna say about you when you
die?
Before you die, what are yougonna eat?
Um, my last meal, Sanchez.
Yes.
I'm just at Sanchez, just likesmashing everything.
You're just running through theman.
It's like a three-hour, it'slike a you know, three hour
dinner.
SPEAKER_02 (44:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
Love that.
Like, all right, I'm ready togo.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Uh, what's the best or the worst advice you've ever
received?
SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
Oh, I got this, man.
The best advice that I got.
I was so I was I was 18.
Um, there was this there wasthis bass player.
This is at my church.
There's this bass player at mychurch.
I just started to to rap and uhwithin like a year and a half or
around this time, and this bassplayer is like old OG bass
(45:25):
player, like killing it.
Like I would I would just likelisten to him on the bass.
Like there's a whole choirsinging, there's drummers,
there's organs, keyboards, youknow what I'm saying, amazing
voices, and I'm just likewatching the bass.
I'm like, what's he gonna donext?
Was it oh my god, this is sogood.
God, I love that.
So I would I would like justlike try to like talk to him
(45:47):
after church, you know what I'msaying?
Um, and he would he told me thatif I was to if I was gonna go
into music, that if I'm not ableto face rejection consistently,
that I shouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_02 (46:04):
Yeah, it's gonna break you.
SPEAKER_01 (46:05):
He said like you're going to get rejected you know
twenty times for every onemoment of approval.
SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
How are you handling that?
How do you handle rejection?
SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
So I expected that.
So then I was fine.
Well, because I feel like I've II I I just keep doing what I
want to do.
You know what I'm saying?
And rejection now doesn't looklike somebody like saying, like,
oh, your shit sucks.
It looks like I had thisresponse that the people were
going to have to this creativeproject that I did, or I had
(46:39):
this idea that when I when I putthis out here in the world,
they're gonna respond like this,and then they don't.
But I just I view it as likesomething I'm learning from
about myself, you know what I'msaying?
And it's like uh almost like atest, like like like can I can
I, you know, after I put thisout, can I be strong enough to
like keep going with a thing,and can I be aware enough to
(47:02):
like learn from what may havefailed or or didn't meet my
expectations, you know what I'msaying?
Then I then I then I go to likedamn, like I just gotta get
better.
SPEAKER_04 (47:13):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (47:16):
That's so healthy.
Do you understand?
That's so healthy.
SPEAKER_02 (47:19):
I don't know.
I I yeah, I guess.
What's your walk-up song?
SPEAKER_01 (47:26):
Oh shit.
Uh a walk-up song, man.
I damn, I don't know.
I should have this.
I should have this ready.
I'm always doing everybodyelse's walk-up song.
Like, like literally.
Literally, yeah, yeah.
I do a lot of corporate eventsnow.
Really?
Yeah, so that's like that's allthey want.
They don't, I mean, that'sthey're like, can you do you
(47:48):
have a good voice?
Yes.
Check that box off.
Can you play my walk-up song?
Yes, I can.
Can you start it at 18 seconds?
I don't know.
I don't know, Tom.
SPEAKER_04 (48:00):
You're asking a lot again.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
Uh, but yeah, yeah.
So um my walk-up song, man, itchanges all the time.
It's gonna change, it changes alot.
Right now, I think it's gonna beum it's gonna be every can I go
everybody wants to rule theworld.
Yeah! Hell yeah, you can.
We'll go with that.
We'll go with that.
It's either that or it'ssomething by outcast.
(48:24):
And and there's too much outcastin my head right now to to to
pinpoint to pinpoint one ofthose things.
SPEAKER_03 (48:29):
But the vibe, I got I know the vibe.
SPEAKER_01 (48:31):
I got the vibe.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
I love that.
Um, what uh what makes you feelmost like yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (48:38):
Yo, man, like I everything when I have a day
that I'm like engaging in likeall the spaces in my life that
like that I like to to do.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Yeah, the stuff that matters.
SPEAKER_01 (48:52):
Yeah, but but I mean, that's a lot.
I'm saying, like, so like I I Ireally I really am I'm really am
feeling like I get to like bemost like myself.
SPEAKER_02 (49:04):
Well, that's kind of the life you you you because I
for yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
But yeah, but I don't have a boss that I report
to.
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (49:12):
Yeah, so so Man, I I I am not built to have a boss.
It I I believe you did it foryears, didn't work.
SPEAKER_01 (49:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (49:23):
I don't know how I never got fired.
SPEAKER_01 (49:24):
You never got fired?
SPEAKER_02 (49:25):
No, no.
SPEAKER_01 (49:26):
Uh so they knew they needed you.
Yeah, so they put up with us.
So good.
SPEAKER_04 (49:31):
I'm so good.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
I'm serious, bro.
Like that, like these I thinkthat the the the types of people
that become bosses or or leaderslike in the corporate space,
like they also don't have likethe creative side and like the
ideas and the imagination.
So like that's why like they'realways going to need like like
(49:57):
creatives are always gonna beneeded in those spaces, you know
what I'm saying?
Because you I mean, you know,hence the name.
But like your your ideas are arewhat the that's the value.
That's something I learned.
I I learned that like I waslike, yo, like there was I so
many times it would happen to meso many times, and then I was
(50:19):
like, fuck, I I gotta stoptalking about ideas around
certain people.
SPEAKER_02 (50:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
You know what I'm saying?
Because like because they'rehungry and they want and and
they might have the time thatnight to do it, and it's not
gonna be the same that you did,but it but now it's done.
So like you you can't piggybackoff of it now, like, because
it's somebody else put it on.
Does that make sense?
(50:44):
Yes, yes.
Yeah, you probably had thishappen too, or you have ideas in
your head that you haven't doneyet.
SPEAKER_02 (50:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (50:52):
And then now somebody else does it.
Dude.
SPEAKER_03 (50:55):
That happens what, like I I like how you look down
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:03):
I that's that was it's just defeat.
You know, it's not moving my assfast enough.
Uh, and and I don't know, maybeit's because the idea wasn't
like uh it wasn't fully cookedyet.
SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (51:16):
Yeah, and my dumb ass talked about it, and so you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
Yeah.
But it's exciting to talk about.
It is, and sometimes you need totalk about it.
Because as you talk about it, ithelps you like process like
because you cause because whenyou when when I talk about an
idea and I see like your eyesand I see like how you react to
it, like it it makes me think ofit, think of the idea in a
(51:40):
different way.
Like, like you might see anangle to whatever the idea is
that I didn't see, and now I'mlike rethinking it and stuff
like that.
So like I guess like you gottajust like talk about it with
people that you someone youtrust.
Yeah, you know, I think that'sthe move.
Yeah, but don't talk about itwith like these business sharks.
SPEAKER_02 (52:03):
Do you do you have any regrets?
SPEAKER_01 (52:06):
Yeah, I mean I I I have regrets.
I mean I I I I wish I would havespent more time with uh my
grandparents um and and tried toto learn from them more, you
know what I'm saying?
Um I think I I feel like therewas just such a big difference
(52:28):
in um there was no internet andand our lifestyles were like so
so different, you know what I'msaying?
Like my granddad was a pastor,like I'm not you know what I'm
saying, and and and and and notlike cause because no, because I
cause I because I see right now,I feel like people can talk to
(52:52):
their grandparents about morelike shared things.
Because whether grandparents aregood at internet or not, good at
sound old as fuck.
I don't even know.
But you know what I'm saying?
Like, like, like we all there'slike more collective um exposure
(53:13):
to things now, yeah.
Right?
Like your you know, yourgrandparents also know about
shit that's happening, you know,whereas like in the 80s and 90s,
it was like, no, that's like oldpeople do that shit over here,
up here, yeah, and and youngpeople do this shit right here
and and the world shall not mix.
(53:33):
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, they even dress different,bro.
Like, you remember like youremember like you know what I'm
saying?
You never had teachers that likeactually had the same shoes as
you, you know what I'm saying?
Like teachers were wearing likethey were tucking in their shit,
like they were wearing likeweird dress shoes and shit.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah now it's like now like thekids and the teachers are like
trying to get the Jordans.
(53:54):
Yeah, like they're all trying toget the job.
SPEAKER_02 (53:55):
You know, the teacher's the coolest one in the
room.
Yeah, that was not the case,man.
No, no, not at all.
SPEAKER_01 (53:59):
Not at all.
So I don't know.
So I I I I do wish I would haveum I wish that that that's a
that's a regret.
Um I think that another regret II think I have is is is
sometimes um not not pivotingout of um bad situations, you
(54:22):
know what I'm saying, sooner.
SPEAKER_02 (54:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (54:24):
You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
It's hard to know a lot of times though, like when
you're in that situation.
Or or were you aware?
SPEAKER_01 (54:30):
Uh I felt like I felt uh I was I was aware, but I
also I think I I think I think Iso I think maybe this is a
different regret.
Regret to be like not beingstubborn.
Because I think I was I wasbeing stubborn, you know what
I'm saying?
I was like, no, like I'm inthis, I don't, I don't quit.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I find a way to make itwork, and you know what I'm
(54:54):
saying?
Yeah.
And and and and this is just ahard time right now, but it's
gonna be better.
SPEAKER_02 (54:59):
That's pride, right?
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
Yeah, I think so.
I think so, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:03):
Yeah, and it's uh turns out it's it's way
healthier to just cut yourfucking losses, right?
And and take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (55:11):
Yeah.
Um and maybe just maybe justyeah, being able to admit that
being able to admit sooner thatthat I don't know what to do,
yeah or I don't know the bestway forward.
I just know that this isn'tworking.
This ain't it and and yeah.
Is that specific enough?
unknown (55:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:35):
Um all right, man.
Last question.
SPEAKER_01 (55:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (55:38):
Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (55:40):
Yes, I'm okay.
For real?
Yeah.
Yeah, thank you.
Uh I'm okay.
Good.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I I'm okay.
I'm emotional about like mykids, bro.
Like, that's what got me whenyou asked me that question about
the kids, man.
That that just they they stilllike me, you know what I'm
saying?
And um, I didn't have a goodrelationship with my dad, so um,
(56:04):
or my biological dad, and thenmy stepdad was was was very
solid.
Um, but then when I went throughmy divorce in 2007, they were
going through their divorce too,and the way that my stepdad
handled the divorce was like,you know, uh pretty pretty
shitty to me um in terms of justlike not saying anything.
(56:27):
He just didn't just didn't didlike left all the explanation of
what was happening to my mom.
And I I was old enough to handleit, but like, you know, my my
sister, uh that it it really itreally wasn't great for her.
And I just think it's like ashitty thing to do, you know
what I'm saying?
Like to leave it all on my momto to explain what's happening
(56:51):
and tell us and that weight thatshe's gonna be able to do.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah.
So um I say all that to say thatlike you know, I I feel like I I
want to be um I wanna I wanna behere for my for my kids, you
know what I'm saying, in thebest way uh possible.
(57:15):
You know what I'm saying?
And I want to support themregardless of like what path,
you know what I'm saying, theythey choose, you know what I'm
saying?
Right, yeah.
Like they might not be acreative entrepreneur.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, they might they might theymight have a boss.
They might, you know, like theymight go in a in a way that like
(57:36):
I wouldn't have gone.
Um, but I I just want whateverway they go, I want it to be
like what they really want.
I want it to be them.
I want them to do them, and Iwant to support them doing them,
you know what I'm saying?
That's huge, man.
I love that as much as possible.
That's that's that's well, youknow, I I just want to do what I
(57:59):
can, you know, and I I thinkthat's something I can do.
SPEAKER_02 (58:01):
I love that.
Your sweetheart.
SPEAKER_01 (58:05):
I love that.
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_02 (58:08):
All right, dude.
Before we get out of here, uh,where where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Oh, uh on on everyone's favorite platform,
Instagram.
Yeah, uh Instagram it is ab.everywhere.
And then online it'severythingab.com.
SPEAKER_02 (58:27):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (58:28):
No, thank you, man.
This is this has been fun.
I love I love just being able tolook at look at this uh
wrestling action figurecollection over here.
Dude, it's um my pride and joy.
You even got you got the BretHart with the leather jacket?
Yeah.
I'm not saying so.
Yeah.
(58:48):
So thank you for having me, man.
This is great.
I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02 (58:51):
Yeah, dude.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
This is uh this has been yeah, more um therapeutic
than I expected.
unknown (58:57):
Well, good.
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (58:58):
All right, man, let's get out of here.
All right, peace.
SPEAKER_02 (59:09):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
And is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Aaron McCall,
and co-hosted by photographerJoe Madison.
Music is noises by Mike Maids inthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you get your podcast.
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