Amy Carroll: The Problem

Amy Carroll (photographer, artist) sits down with Aaron McCall to talk about identity, ego, and the long process of figuring out who you actually are. She gets into building a career that looks good on the outside but feels empty, learning how to create work that people can actually feel, and the shift from chasing attention to chasing something real. They talk about aging, confidence, creative evolution, and what it takes to let go of control long enough to make something honest.

Keep up with Amy Carroll:
amycarroll.photography
IG: @amycarrollphotography

Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
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West Michigan artists, makers, and small businesses. Shop local with food trucks and live music.

——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
——
Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
——
Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:38):
Photography felt a little glamorized for a moment,
and then I felt glamorized for amoment, and then I just was
like, yeah, like I just felt, Idon't know, too big-headed about
it.
And that was kind of gross.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
Are you ready?
My fanny pack is tight.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social
Club.
My name is Aaron McCall.
I'm Joe Madison.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17):
I was thinking about it.
I'm so stoked for this season.
We're upwards of like 70conversations with like amazing
creatives and people that havejust chosen to do this thing
their own way.
This is an exciting place to be.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
I think so too, man.
And if and if and if you've beenaround for a while, you know
what this is.
We sit down with creative peopleand talk about the stuff that
makes us who we are ascreatives.
The good stuff, the messy stuff,the weird stuff, all of it.
Yep.
But also we we added cameras.
So if you've ever wondered whatthese conversations look like,

(01:50):
or you wanted to see my fuckingmug, um uh now you can watch new
episodes on YouTube and Spotify.

SPEAKER_04 (01:58):
Jury's out on whether this is a good idea or
not.
But on this topic, what what mugare you using today, Aaron?
What you got?
What mug are you using?
I'm using my creatures of thenight.

SPEAKER_01 (02:08):
Oh, dude.
Does it glow in the dark oranything?
No.
Uh so the original artworkthough, like for the record,
like the eyes did glow in thedark.
Dope.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:17):
They need to.
Here's mine.
I just pour my coffee into thishand and slurp up what I can
get.
So nothing?

SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Yeah, pretty much.
Oh, you're weird and I don'tlike it.
Yeah.
You should know this by now.
Um, you know, so before we doget into this whole thing,
though, I do I do want to take amoment and um acknowledge the
loss of our friend ScottMillington.

(02:46):
Um Scott was a photographer anda hugely active part of the
Michigan creative scene.
Um his Here is Their Storyseries was a huge inspiration uh
in in making this podcast areality.
And um, you know, I I willalways cherish um the

(03:11):
conversation that we recordedtogether and not to mention the
the the countless uh otherconversations that guy and I had
had that were just for us.
Um it was in honor to bephotographed by him and and even
more so a privilege just to justto know the guy.

SPEAKER_04 (03:33):
Yeah, there's I mean, photo is an amazing thing
because it creates memories ofthings that you're capturing,
but it's also amazing because itcreates a memory of the person
that captured it.
So he has a legacy of just beingdevoted to the community around
him, and you know, I only got acouple events of actually
spending time with him, but thatalone had an impact on me.

SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
Um we're all gonna be better for or we all probably
are better because we got tospend some time with him.

SPEAKER_04 (04:06):
Yeah.
With that being said, who do wegot today here, Michael?

SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
Another photographer, Amy Carroll.
Uh like I said, she's aphotographer, she's a painter,
uh, an artist whose work isuniquely grounded in real life.
Um Amy has spent years uhcreating and capturing uh images
that don't just look beautiful,like they actually feel like

(04:30):
something, like like they'realmost tangible.
Um but she's also someone whokeeps evolving, like not just in
her work, but in how she seesherself as an artist, as a
woman, and as a person gettingmore comfortable in her own skin
every single day.
Um and and and you know, we wegot into a lot too.

(04:51):
We talked about photography uhand painting, obviously, but
also um aging and trustingyourself and what it looks like
to gain a clearer image of whoyou are and and who you see in
the mirror.

SPEAKER_04 (05:08):
Yeah.
In in that vein, um, I wasreally thinking about the fact
that this is something I'venever really said out loud
before because I always worryabout what it's gonna give off
or what the assumption will bein relation to this statement,
but when it comes to my personalcharacter and things that I've
learned that have always been apart of me and I had to live
with, and I'm not super stokedthat we're always there, um

(05:31):
people pleasing literally almostkilled me.
Um in long story short, becausewhen I went on my senior spring
break trip, I got sick justbefore.
Probably many people have heardthis story, so I'm not gonna go
over it too much.
But um, when I got sick beforewe left for the trip, I was so
worried about affecting otherpeople's experience that I

(05:54):
pushed through and insisted thatit was something that it wasn't.
And that led to me being in NewOrleans, dying in a hotel.
And I waited a almost a week togo into the hospital because
again, I did not want to affectanyone's experience on their
trip.
Um okay, so at my healthiest,people pleasing comes into a

(06:15):
space where I love service and Ilove servicing people, and I
love like you do.
Yeah, I knew you were gonna saythat.
I love obsessing about like whatis gonna make someone's day, and
then how I can go one stepbeyond that.
And in my field, that makes hugewaves because people remember
that experience because of that.

(06:36):
At my most unhealthy in thisregard, I'm I disregard any
boundary I have, or I just don'tmake any boundaries at all.
Today, today you do?
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
I'm I'm working on it, Iconstantly work on it.
But yeah, nowadays, more so thanever, it is important that we
stick to what we believe andwhat we know to be right.
And that's who I want to be.

(06:58):
I want to be that one where it'slike, no, I know that if Joe's
confronted in this way, he'sgonna stand up for me or the
people like me.

SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
And I think you're a little bit full of shit.

SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Okay, you love saying that to me.
Well, get your head out of yourass.
Okay, that's fair.
I am happy to hear that becauseoftentimes, too, when you're
working on yourself, you're tooclose to see the progress that
you've made.
And and it's nice to hear thatothers see progress in that.
And you're not even sayingprogress, you just see that I'm
better in that way.
But yeah.

(07:25):
Okay, before we dive in, don'tforget to follow wherever you're
listening.
Leave a five-star review, anddon't forget to tell your
friends.

SPEAKER_01 (07:33):
Um, also, this thing runs on merch sales and listener
support and uh reviews.
So head over tobadideasocialclub.com, maybe buy
something, help us help us outwith this whole thing.
Shipping is always free.
Um, and I think our shit'spretty cool.
So dope.
Here's uh here's my conversationwith Amy.

(07:55):
As we were just kind of talkingabout off mic, this is the first
chance we've ever had to likesit down and like really mix it
up, really fuck shit up a littlebit.
I like it.
So, first thing I want to knowis about your relationship with
your camera.

SPEAKER_00 (08:09):
My gosh, I don't think anybody's ever asked me
that question before.
Um, so it's interesting.
I think my relationship with mycamera, if I'm thinking about
it, it just feels like anextension.
I feel like with the first timeI ever picked up a my camera or
a camera when I bought it 20years ago, it was an icon.
It fit my hand, and it just likeimmediately felt like this
extension that I could then dowhat I wanted to do and create

(08:32):
how I wanted to create.
And it's always kind of beenlike that.
Um, I'm not a super techiecamera girl.

SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
I feel like um it's vibes for you.

SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
It's more vibes than it is like all of the minutia of
the camera itself.
I really just wanted to createand I've really kind of dialed
in to do that.
I'm a little bit moodier of aphotographer, so I kind of dial
down my tones a little bit, andthat's kind of how I shoot.
But my relationship with thatcamera, it really I guess it's
just really being able to createsomething beautiful and just

(09:01):
having that extension.
It feels like the most naturalthing to have it in my hand.

SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
So, like, where's the line between like an
extension of you and a and atool?

SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
I never really think of it as a tool.

SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, I I've never even put that into context.
Um, no, it just I'm sorry fordoing that then.
No, it's I mean, it's a goodvalid question, and it's
honestly like I feel like I'mgonna be thinking about this
later tonight and like, no, Ishould have said this.
Um, but no, it really just feelslike how I can achieve exactly
what I want to do with it.
Um, you know, when I firststarted doing photography, um, I

(09:35):
just felt poor and I wantedbetter cameras.
And, you know, so certainlyit's, you know, I've been able
to upgrade and and change to thethings that I can really then
finesse a little bit more.
But really, it's just alwaysbeen this natural extension so
that I can create what I want tocreate with it.

SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
And I well, in your work, it's it's it feels very
human, right?
Like it, it, it feels verygrounded.
And I would imagine juststarting out, like you don't
start there.

SPEAKER_00 (10:00):
I've always wanted my pictures to be able to be
felt, not just a reallybeautiful image.
And I don't know how to like saythat better.

SPEAKER_01 (10:12):
You know, I I I actually have that in my notes
that I'm like, I kind of almostfeel like I can like talk to
these people, right?
Almost like I can like pet theanimal or what I don't know.
It's like it it feels tactile,like it feels like like a real
thing and not like a product.

SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Yeah, good.
That's always that's always whatI want with the people I'm
working with.
I never want them to feel likeI'm just okay, we're gonna come
over here and pose.
I I think movement feels reallynatural.
I feel like taking in thenatural elements around us is
what I'm always trying to likecontextually do, but then
putting it all together, abeautiful setting and everything
going.
And so many people are soworried that they're not photo

(10:52):
people or they don't feelcomfortable in front of a camera
that I feel like most people saythat.
And everybody, when they justmove and they're just
authentically who they uh wantthey are together, that's the
beauty of it, like trying tocapture that.

SPEAKER_01 (11:07):
I've worked with a with a lot of photographers, and
I think it takes a specialphotographer to pull out uh that
like genuine uh sense of selfthat that person probably has.
Um and I kind of think that forand and maybe I'm putting words
in your mouth, tell me to shutthe fuck up if I am, but like um
for for photographers like you,like it it fe it it feels almost

(11:31):
effortless.

SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
And I really think like as I'm thinking about it
more, I think that there's anelement of just natural cute
like human curiosity that Ireally connect with the people
that I'm working with.
And I think like as we'rewalking along and I'm getting to
know a couple or seeing themagain or whatever that might be,
I'm often just asking themquestions.
I'm naturally curious anyway.

(11:53):
Like I I ask everybodyeverything.
Where did you grow up?
Where did you all thesedifferent things?
And I feel like throughout that,I can then kind of find this
like common thread and kind ofcommon connection that I have
with these people that I canmake them feel a little bit more
at ease.
Like we can find thatcommonality.
And I feel like when thoseguards go down and those walls
go down, and that's notsomething that's a force effort
on my part.

(12:13):
I'm not trying to do that to it,just kind of naturally comes out
and then they're feeling alittle bit more relaxed.
They feel seen, they feel heard.
They're like, you know, I hopethat they know I'm trying to get
to who they are and not justwalking into a beautiful place
and photographing them.
And I feel like all that kind ofcomes through and hopefully like
then kind of intersects intothis like really beautiful, like
their guards are down and theycan relax enough to like really

(12:34):
just let themselves be who theyare.
And that's kind of always whatI'm trying to do.
And I feel like that humanconnection is, I think,
sometimes missing in a lot ofthe pictures that I see.
You know, I can see a great,beautiful picture of a bride and
groom on a on a mountaintop orin Iceland and they're all
gorgeous, but I don't, there'snot, I mean, I don't feel
anything, I don't feel anythingat all.

(12:57):
And I feel like when people aretruly feeling themselves, that's
when you get those greatimagery.

SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
What about the what about the um fine art side of
photography?

SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
The fine, that's a whole different ball.

SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
Yeah, that's gotta be a completely different
muscle, right?

SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Yeah.
And a lot of that, so the fineart photography.
So to go back a little bit, I Iused to as just a creative break
for myself.
I would just get in my car anddrive around.
And this was back in like maybe2012.
And I remember just drivingaround and I wanted a piece of
art for my own wall, and Iwanted it to feel kind of

(13:34):
southwest.
I don't know why I'm very drivento the southwest.
I don't live in the southwest,never really spent a ton of time
there, but just like thosevibes.
And um, I would photographanimals.
Animals are just, I love beingaround them.
I don't have a lot.
So a lot of people actuallythought I lived in a farm for a
long time because I would justconstantly be taking pictures of
animals and posting them.

(13:55):
Um, and I took this one pictureof a longhorn and it kind of
like stamped me into the fineart world because of this one
image, but I really took it formyself.
I wanted a picture of a bullwith these really long horns and
just kind of looking at me andjust like really just like cool
vibes.
And I remember taking this onepicture and I was like, ah, this
is this is it.
And I remember getting home andI wanted it in black and white,

(14:16):
and I really enjoyed playingaround with that.
Um, and a friend of mine waslike, when I I think I had
shared it with her, and she'slike, You should you should send
this in.
You should, you know, I I workwith minted, which is an online,
you know, creative community.
They do, you know, a lot ofpeople know them for invitations
and things, but they also have areally big, like fine art and
artist-based um part of theirbusiness.

(14:38):
And she was like, they often runthese like contests, or I don't
know, maybe not contests, butum, where you can kind of upload
art and it's critiqued and canoften, you know, get into their
system and they often partnerwith bigger brands.
So I decided to take her up onit.
And this one happened to be inconjunction with West Elm.
And I sent it in and that piecejust blew up.

(15:01):
It was everywhere.
It was crazy.
Um, and it was really cool thatthey kind of took a chance on
this picture and then it endedup being in a lot of magazines.
It was in celebrity homes.
I would see it pop up in allthese different places.
Like people were begging to getthis image.
I, you know, after it went tominted, I couldn't personally
like even sell it.
I didn't own the copyrights toit anymore.
So it direct them there, but itwas just it was in Target.

SPEAKER_01 (15:24):
Like it really just like that feeling of seeing it
all over the place everywhere.
That can't get old.

SPEAKER_00 (15:30):
I mean, it doesn't.
It was just really, it wasreally neat.
People would be sending it inall the time.
They're like, oh, it was in thismagazine.
And it was just like a reallycool, like, I that was just
never my intent, right?
That was just built out of myown love and wanting things from
my own wall.
So then it really obviously gotthose wheels spinning.
And I was like, what else can Icreate?
So um, you know, the animals,this was kind of before animals

(15:51):
as artwork was kind ofeverywhere.
You know, this was back in like2014 when it really kind of took
off.
And um I just started, yeah, Iwas like, great, I can be around
animals and take pictures, andthis becomes art.
And this is it just felt like areally great moment for me.
So I really enjoyed that.
Um, I started like going todifferent farms, so I just got
to like, and people would inviteme to their farms to like

(16:12):
photograph their animals, and itwas just really incredible.
So the fine art side was reallyfun because it was truly born
out of a need for my own wallsand wanting art.
And, you know, and so I did thatfor like a number of years, and
then it kind of got popular.
There was like one other artistwho kind of released an image

(16:33):
similar.
Um, it was a different animal,but we we were both kind of
everywhere for a while.
And then, of course, thecopycats came along.
And so then, you know, and I'mnot even going to try to pretend
that I started that, but it wasjust it kind of all kind of came
out at the same time.
The popularity of those printsstarted getting everywhere.
They're in then in Hobby Lobbyand Michael's, and you know, and
I just kind of stopped creatingthat because I was like, been

(16:55):
there, done that.
There's all these copycats, likethis, you know, and as an
artist, you just kind of areconstantly evolving.
Um, I have a lot of people like,oh, when are you gonna take more
animal pictures?
And I'm just like, I don't wantto say it's dead to me.
I would do it for myselfpersonally, but just never again
as finer moments.

SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Um, so um, then it just it's always been born out
of what do I want to see on myown walls.
Like, I'm a little bit quirkier.
I started painting.
So, like, there's it's alwayskind of just born out of what do
I want to see?

SPEAKER_01 (17:21):
When did you start painting?

SPEAKER_00 (17:23):
Um, well, that's a good question.
My mom is an artist and she andI would often just paint
together.
Um, she's an I I always saythis, she's an actual artist.
Like she went to school for artand she's really technically
beautiful.
And, you know, she does like ifshe if you wanted a picture of
yourself or of your dog, shewould do a really great job of

(17:43):
it, where mine is more of aninterpretation of that.
So I always thought because Icouldn't draw accurately, or you
know, I didn't paint like shedid, that that just immediately
withdrew me from the category ofbeing an artist.
So we would paint together and Istarted to just kind of play
around with what I wanted, how Iwanted to move paint on the, you
know, on the canvas or onwhatever substrate I was using.

(18:06):
And um, I just kind ofeventually started doing that
more and more.
I really enjoyed it.
It just really felt like a, youknow, it wasn't photography.
I love photography, but we allneed breaks from the things that
we do and churn out sometimes.
And in the winters, it's kind ofa natural time for me to break.
So I would just like, she and Iwould get together, we would
paint, and then 2020 happened.
And weirdly, there weren't a lotof weddings, and I needed a

(18:30):
little bit of a stress reliever.
And so I started painting moreand was in some different
creative circles um with peopleto just kind of, you know, we
would give each other prompts orthings like that, just to kind
of focus our minds and be ableto do something creatively.
And um, that's kind of when itreally started being more than
just me playing around withpaint.
So um I've been kind of figuringout who I am as an artist, but

(18:54):
have have enjoyed some somesuccess with now with the
painting aspect.

SPEAKER_01 (19:00):
Well, and it sounds like at some point in there you
kind of had to redefine the termartist for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
Yeah.
We talk about imposter syndrome,everybody, right?
Um, I I still hesitantly callmyself more than just a
photographic artist.
So I and I I enjoy it so much,and I've had people ask me for
commissions at this point andand different things were, but I

(19:26):
it almost feels unlike I'mplaying as a painterly artist.
Like I'm not really validated inthat arena quite yet, but um I'm
enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
Well, you just opened up a new shop.

SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
I did.

SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
What's going on there?

SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Well, I like to monetize my hobbies, so I love
that.

SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
Um I love that A plus plus plus plus.

SPEAKER_00 (19:44):
Yeah, yeah.
And I feel like oftentimes Iwill say yes because I love the
idea of that, and it like kindof forces my hand a little bit.
Like I oftentimes will paint inthe winter and then a little bit
in the spring, and then thesummertime gets busy, and then I
don't do it at all.
And I thought I I thought if Ihave a shop, then I have to
produce all year.
And so it was kind of a way toforce myself to be um doing

(20:07):
something with paint and notjust photography, not to say I
don't love photography, but it'sreally good for me to kind of
have these different things.
And I thought, then maybe I'llsay yes to this.

SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
What is what does painting give you that maybe
photography doesn't, or whatdoes photography give you that
painting can't?

SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Well, painting is so tactile.
You know, you're moving in a waylike where photography feels
like I'm dancing.
I feel like with painting, I'mable I'm not great with words,
as maybe this podcast willillustrate.
And I feel like how I get thosethings out is with painting.
I feel like I can paint thewhimsy that I feel, or I can

(20:47):
paint, you know, when it'sabstract, it's usually when I'm
trying to get some sort ofemotion out and I just don't
know what that is, and sometimesit will come out through that.
So I feel like with painting andand now pottery also.
I I started that last year, andof course, monetize that.
There's I know I have piecesthat people have purchased,
which is crazy.
But yeah, so it's um, you know,photography and painting and now

(21:09):
pottery.
So all these different things.
And the same thing with pottery.
I actually spent the majority oftoday at the pottery studio that
I work at, and having your handsin clay and being able to mold
that is like even more of anexpression.
And it feels like it's sogrounding without that seeming
like too cliche.
It's so grounding to have yourhands in clay and just like

(21:29):
smoothing that out and justmaking this really beautiful
shape.
And mine tend to be a littlebit, I'm I don't throw pottery,
I'm not on a wheel, I'm a handbuilding.
So you can really just kind oflike bend that and mold that and
and just kind of shape that umhowever you want.
And I really like, you know, I'mI'm often it's it's almost
always nature.
Like I want something to likefeel more organic than I want it

(21:52):
to feel perfect.

SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Do you ever do it just for you without being like,
I'm gonna sell this thing?

SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
Yeah, that's how it started.

SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
But then I just had a whole bunch of pieces and I'm
like, Oh, well, I mean, I mean,right now in 2026, Amy Carroll,
in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Yes.
I love that.
Yep.
I and I and I always feel likeagain, the pottery even started
out.
When I'm on vacation, I usuallybuy pottery or art.
And so when I'm now making artand making pottery, what do I
want?
Like, what am I drawn to?
And that's that's always where Istart is what do I want to see?
I'm actually making a piece forour living room and I want
something just sculptural andorganic and just kind of like

(22:27):
free form, something that I canlike look at and feel, I don't
know, just feel like what I feltwhen I was making it.
That's awesome.
It's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
So, so tell me this.
As you are today.
Who is Amy Carroll?

SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
I feel like that's an ever-evolving question.
Um, I feel like now I'm in my40s, I feel much more like okay
with boundaries, which has beena big thing for me.
So I feel like I'm somebody wholike I know who I am.
I'm not afraid to say what I dowant and I don't want.
And that's actually like that'sbeen a big work in progress.

(23:02):
I'm a people pleaser.
So I would often like put my ownneeds, wants, fill in the blank
to the side so that I could letother people have what they
wanted.
And I think I'm better at likeasking and saying what I need.
As an artist, I feel like I lovewhat's happening lately.
Like I have always really feltlike art was not something that

(23:23):
you did for a living.
It's always I've known artists,but they always had a a job or a
nine to five or something likethat.
And like I remember growing upand always thinking, like, I
just think like artists are socool.
And I never thought like thatwas me.
I never looked inward and saidthat that could be me, that is
me, nothing.
And then to see, I feel like thelike the 12 or 13-year-old me

(23:45):
would look at who I am now andwhere I've been and what I'm
doing and what I'm working on islike pretty damn cool.

SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
It is.
Well, and it's it's funny yousay that because I've always
kind of thought that being agraphic designer, being an
artist for me is is the closestthing I could possibly get to
being a fucking rock star.
That's how cool it is to me.

SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Yeah, it just is never like when I was like, what
do I want to be when I grow up?
This wasn't it, even though itreally was what it was.
I just didn't know how toarticulate or what that would
look like.
So I just did the safe route fora while.

SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Well, what did you what did you think you would be?

SPEAKER_00 (24:19):
I remember thinking I was just gonna be what my
parents were.
Like I didn't really want whatlike nothing, like no shade for
them.
Like they have to have a greatlife, and I respect and love
them very much.
But I kind of just like didn'tthink outside of the bounds of
like what I grew up as.
And I remember even being likein my early 20s, and I was like,

(24:42):
Well, I don't know, I guess Ineed to find a husband and get
married and have some kids.
And my mom was a stay-at-homemom for a lot of her life until
we went to school, and then she,you know, went back to teaching
art, which is really cool.
Um, but I just really kind ofthought I was just gonna live an
ordinary life, and I didn'tthink outside of that for a long
time, to be honest.

(25:03):
Like I just was like, well, Idon't know, I'll figure it out.
I went to school for marketingand graphic design.
I thought I'd work in an adagency.
I mean, I really didn't thinkbeyond like I could wear cute
outfits to work and work onthings.
And I I did that for many yearsand I hated it so much.
I was like, I felt like I waslike clawing at the walls, like,
get me out of here.
Like I would just like stare outmy office, and I had a really

(25:25):
beautiful river view.
I had a very glossy job, and Iwould just be like, There's
there's gotta be more.
I hate this.
And I was like, now what?
This is what I went to schoolfor, this is what I've put
everything into.
And I just remember feeling sodissatisfied.
And I was like, I have toactually like carve something
out for myself.
I felt like I was just kind ofmoving down a river instead of
like building the boat andchanging the core, like all

(25:49):
these different things that likehave to happen.
And I felt like I was just kindof letting people move me in the
directions that I thought theywanted, or just didn't really
give us much thought.
And then when I started takingpictures out of complete just
creative need to get out of thisoffice and like do something, I
was like, wait, this is it.
This is what it is.

(26:09):
And then it's just really beenthen I I felt like that's when I
started, I started being me.
That's when I was like, this iswho I am.
And I felt really great.
And that was in my 20s, and thenmy 30s were pretty great.
And then my 40s, I was like,this is fantastic.
I felt like I am like, yeah, I'mI'm who I want to be.
And I'm surrounded by, I have areally great group of friends.

(26:32):
Um, they're really creativelyinspiring.
I have lots of different, youknow, creative outlets.
I have lots of people I can talkreally like openly with.
And I feel like I'm at thispoint right now where I'm like,
I don't know, Amy Carol's kindof cool now.
But like I kind of like I feellike I never felt like I had
permitted, and I don't mean thatlike I just mean I'm cool with
myself.
I don't mean outwardly, youknow, like people need to think

(26:53):
I'm cool.
I just I'm cool with myself.
I feel like I'm I'm happy withwhere I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
I love that.
But what do you think?
What do you think those detourson the way to get here taught
you about yourself?

SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
You know, there's there's so many because I feel
like I'm somebody who's prettyintrospective, and I look back
at a lot of these differentthings, and I I was kind of a
dick in my 20s.

SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
I don't really I was too.
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
I'm like, and you know, sometimes I look back at
some of the things that I didsay and in my 30s.
Yeah, well, part of that too.
I feel like there's a littlebridge over for me, also.

SPEAKER_01 (27:25):
This episode is supported by Creative Mornings
Grand Rapids, our local chapterin the world's largest
face-to-face creative community.
Creative Mornings believeseveryone is creative and
everyone is welcome.
Their monthly lecture series isfree and spans over 240 cities
across 69 countries.
Visit Creative Mornings.com tosee what's going on with your
local chapter.
And by Merchants and Makers, acollective of local artists,

(27:46):
makers, and small businesses.
Merchants and Makers puts onmarkets across West Michigan
connecting people with realartists and makers at events
that include food trucks, livemusic, and local shopping.
Visit merchantsandmakers.com forinformation on upcoming events
and how to get involved.

SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
And there's some real cringe moments and some
moments I'd really like to takeback and not have to experience
again.
But if I'm being honest, Iusually learn from th from the
things that I don't want to gothrough again.
So how do I not repeat that?
So I feel like I've done a goodjob of like looking inward and
saying, okay, this didn't workor this was terrible.

(28:23):
What's happening?
What's the common denominator?
A lot of times it was me.
And so I had to do some innerwork and I had to, you know,
correct some behaviors.
I remember when I startedgetting kind of like known in
the photography world.
And I kind of, you know, I kindof came into it when there
weren't that many femalephotographers yet.
You know, we're in a prettysaturated market as far as you

(28:44):
know, photography goes at thispoint.
But 20 years ago, like I waspretty cool.
Like I was young and you know, Ihad all these like fun ideas and
my head got really big.
Like truly, I was like, peoplewere like, oh my gosh, these are
so cool and you're so cool.
And I was like, yeah, I reallyam.
And I, I mean, I didn't saythat, but I really kind of got
into this like territory where Ifelt like I was cool.

(29:07):
And this was also like, therewas a rock star photographer
moment that happened in, I don'tknow, let's say 2008, nine, 10,
somewhere around there.
There was a whole bunch ofCalifornia photographers that
were like making photographylook really cool.
Like they, they were awesome.
A lot of people knew who theywere, and then photography felt
a little glamorized for amoment, and then I felt
glamorized for a moment.

(29:28):
And then I just was like, yeah,like I just felt, I don't know,
too big headed about it.
And that was kind of gross.
And um I had a a studio mate,and she and I both kind of I
felt like we're in this, and wejust kind of like our ego
started even attacking eachother, and our friendship blew
up.

(29:48):
Um, and I just like, and thenshe moved away.
And then I just remember likethinking, I'm like, Amy, what
are you doing?
Like, this is not who you wantto be.
This is not who you are.
Like, why are you acting likethis?
You take pictures of people,like get off your high horse.

SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
How old were you when you found that realization?

SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
Yeah, like late 20s, early 30s.
Um, I feel like if you were myfriend at that point, you
probably know what I'm talkingabout.
Um, and that friend and I thathad that blow up, we we have now
reconciled and we're very goodfriends.
Oh, good.
We've been able to like kind oftalk about our um just kind of
you know what we were goingthrough at that time.
But um, yeah, I feel like thedetours do help you if you're

(30:29):
able to look back at them andnot cringe and not just look
away or hide them under a rug.
It can help you make yourself abetter human going forward,
which I feel like I've beenworking really hard to do.
Um, you know, being a lot, youknow, just like kinder to
myself, but then just likekinder to other people.
Like we're all going through it,you know.

SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Yeah.

unknown (30:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:49):
That kind of empathy can't really be learned.
It's like in you.
You just have to just let it outand get your ego out of the way.

SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (30:54):
You know?

SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
Yeah, my ego is crazy.
Like, move that out of there.
I don't, I don't enjoy talkingto other people who are highly
egotistical.
That's terrible.
I don't want to be that.
I never want somebody to walkaway from a conversation, like,
oh gosh, she's full of herself.
Cause that's just, it's not whoI am.
I, you know, again, naturallycurious about other people.
And I feel like through thatperiod of time where I was just
like terrible, I wasn't caringabout other people.

(31:17):
I was like, don't you care aboutme?
I couldn't wait to talk aboutmyself.
I couldn't wait to tell youabout my next travel and
adventure and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
And I feel like could you see it in your work?

SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
I'm sure.
Um, you know how we talked aboutjust putting people on a
beautiful mountainside and justmaking it amazing?
I wanted the accolades.

SPEAKER_01 (31:35):
Yeah, it was shallow.

SPEAKER_00 (31:37):
It was shallow.
It wasn't, and it wasn't, youknow, that's fun for five
minutes, you know, where you'relike, okay, cool, I'm so great.
And it's not really like how Iwant to create art.
It wasn't, it didn't feel good.
It didn't feel anything otherthan getting a great picture
that people were like, wow, youknow, if if you're doing it for
the likes, you're doing it forthe wrong reason.

SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
Yeah, that's it.
So at this point, do you feelmore, more um steady now, or do
you just feel like more aware?

SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
Probably both, honestly.
I feel a lot more steady in thatI I just feel like I know who I
am as a photographer.
I don't look at a lot of otherphotographers' work.
Um, and I feel like that's whenI know that I'm really secure
and feeling good about my ownwork.
Like I'm not trying to besomebody else or beat somebody
else's work or be better thansomebody else.

(32:27):
Like I'm truly creating for thepeople that want to work with me
and I'm creating for myself.
And, you know, those feel reallygood.
I feel like that that feels whenI'm stopping looking at other
people's work and come doingthat comparison game.

SPEAKER_01 (32:39):
That's hard.

SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
That's yeah.
And I think that's when you youcan just rest and be like, I'm
doing okay.
You know, I just I don't feellike I'm doing that comparison,
like that comparison is a thiefof joy kind of moment is a real
thing.
Like, truly.

SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
I try so hard to not do that, and it is just easier
said than done.
True, right?
Like, I I I'm I'm prettyconfident in what I do, I love
what I do, but it's like, man,sometimes something will come
up, and I'm like, God, I eitherI wish I made that, or why
didn't I have that idea?

(33:13):
Or like, God, what I'm makingisn't that good.

SPEAKER_00 (33:16):
Okay, well, I do do that with painting sometimes.
Like, I feel like myphotography, I'm not doing that
as much with painting, thatmight be a hold because it's
newer.

SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
So I feel like I'm still trying to figure out who I
am as a still trying to get yourfooting, still trying to figure
out what your voice is.

SPEAKER_00 (33:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, I'm creating for myself,which feels good, but then there
will be other painters that willput something out.
I'm like, oh my gosh, that's socool.
And instead though, of likegoing and copying that work, I
feel like I use that more tolike how can I create something
that feels that great for myselfinstead of just like, oh, well,

(33:53):
what colors were they using orwhat's their subject matter?
You know, I'm I don't take thatand just run with the idea that
I think is great, where I feellike as when I was a young
photographer, I would seesomebody else's work and then
try to replicate that.

SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Right.
Well, I mean, I feel like that'sprobably how you start to figure
out what you like, what youdon't like.
Uh right?

SPEAKER_00 (34:12):
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
I was like, there's more to this sentence, but I
don't think there is.

SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
It's that.
You got the sentiment correct.

SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
So at this point in your career, at this point in
your life, um, has your has yourum ambition changed?
I don't think I said that right.
Has your uh, I don't know, goalsor maybe definition of success
changed?

SPEAKER_00 (34:36):
Yeah, I feel yes, it has.
Um I'm not sure how to how toarticulate that perfectly, but I
feel like when I really justwant to have fun and enjoy what
I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
I fucking love that.

SPEAKER_00 (34:50):
You know, I really do.
I mean, monetarily, sure, great.
That would be, you know, that'sbut that feels more secondary.
I want to have a good where Iget to wake up and do the things
that I love to do.
And it was funny, the other dayI woke up and again, this is my
slower season.
I'm not photographing weddingsas much.
I still have shoots, but they'renot as like intense as they are
in like the spring, summer, andfall.

(35:12):
And I woke up and got to, I hada slow breakfast and I went
upstairs to my painting studioand I got to paint a couple
pictures.
And I'm like, oh, that's right.
I was gonna run to the potterystudio and finish up these
pieces.
And I ran there and I did that.
And I have friends that were atthis the pottery studio and
we're all laughing.
And then I picked up my son fromschool, and then I went home and
I like made dinner.
And as I was like making dinner,just like reflective of my day,

(35:36):
I was like, this is exactly thelife that I wanted.
And that feels like success tome.
It wasn't how much money did Imake today, how much, you know,
accolades I got in any sort ofthing.
It was just I got to wake up andcreate a bunch of stuff that I
thought was really cool andreally fun.
And, you know, my year shiftsaround a lot.
So it's not always gonna feelthat, you know, blissed out, but

(35:59):
it felt great.
Like that's the success is I'mdoing the things that I've
wanted to do.
Um, and even in the height of mybusyness, like I'm taking
pictures, I'm photographing, I'mediting, like all these are
things that I love to do somuch.
That's success to me.

SPEAKER_01 (36:13):
So I just I just hit my 40s.
Uh well, I year and some changeago.
Uh for me, I've been really inmy own head about mortality and
the fragility of life.
Um as you age, do you do you doyou have to wrestle with that
kind of shit too?

SPEAKER_00 (36:33):
Yeah, yeah.
A lot more than in yes,especially the last few years.
Um, you know, I feel like we'rein that like Sanders generation.
Like, um, like we're raising achild, he's younger, he's like
going to be 12 next week.
And then I have parents that arein their 70s, and I feel like
that, you know, watchingparents' age, watching my son

(36:56):
get older, I'm in a season whereI am not it, you know, I'm 46.
I'm 46.
And I'm like, you know, I'vebeen doing photography for 20
years.
I love it.
Like I have, you know, I've hadto the nose to the grindstone.
But then as I'm looking up, I'mlike, wait, how much longer do
people want me to photographtheir weddings?
Like, how much longer am Ipersonally going to be relevant

(37:19):
for the couples that I'm workingwith?
Like, am I, you know, there is arelevancy thing that I
personally am worried about.
Um, and I feel like I don't needto force that too much.
I feel like the people who wantto work with me and see my work,
um, you know, I think thatconnection is still there.
But the the timing, like what in10, you know, 10 years ago just
feels like it was a blink.

SPEAKER_03 (37:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
And then so in 10 more years, then I'm in my 50s.
And that feels wild to me.
Like, what?
I, you know, I feel like we allhave like an internal age.
Like, do you know your internalage?

SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Uh what is it just like how how old do you feel?

SPEAKER_00 (37:54):
Like, until you like look in the mirror or you
actually like think about yourage.
How old are you?

SPEAKER_01 (37:58):
I would say like mid to late 20s.

SPEAKER_00 (38:00):
Yeah, I'm 28, like always.
Like, I just feel like that'sjust like I haven't really like
in my head.
I'm just like, yeah, I'm like ayoung professional, I'm a young
artist.
Like, I'm not I, you know, I waswhen I started.
And now, you know, when I'mphotographing my couples, I'm
like, oh, we're peers.
And then their parents are like,oh, I graduated in the 90s.
So it's like, cool.
Like, oh fuck.

(38:21):
You know, and I I that blows mymind.
So yeah, I mean, that has comeup a lot.
Like, I feel like the the aging,I don't feel any different than
I did in my 20s, likephysically.

SPEAKER_01 (38:33):
Um, I feel way different.

SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
Well, okay, I do a little bit.
I I feel like I don't feeldifferent when I wake up out of
bed, but I'm just like, wait,like all the things that used to
be really easy.
Like, you know, I I've alwaysbeen able to think, you know, up
until like recently, I couldjust eat whatever I wanted and
not really have repercussions.
And now I'm like, okay, yep, youdo need to go to the gym.
And, you know, so that hasshifted and changed a little

(38:58):
bit.
But yeah, it it definitely likeI wonder where I'm gonna be in
10 years and how I'm gonna beperceived in the art world in 10
years, you know.
Um, but then I see a lot ofbadass women and men like out
creating and they're likeamazing and they're owning their
age.
And you know, I feel like that,I feel like as I I'm Gen X.
I'm like right in that, likealmost a millennial, but really,

(39:19):
you know, in that little weirdmicrogeneration.
And I look at a lot of other GenX people aging that are older
than me, and I'm like, they'rejust owning it and they're cool.
And I don't, yeah, you know, andso yes, definitely thinking
about aging and what that lookslike and my own mortality and
all of these different things,but I'm also like, I don't know,
like there's a lot morepermission, you know, there's
there's more permission, I feellike, these days to just be who

(39:43):
you are and not worry about allthe rest.
I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
And I feel like we're we're we're we're very
lucky in that sense because thatwas not the case forever.

SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
And I feel like I'm cooler now than I was in my 20s.
So why are we like prioritizingyouth as like, you know, why are
we looking at 20-year-olds aslike this is who we want to be
and who we want to look likewhen we're so much cooler as we
age?
Like, I don't get it.
I mean, I understand becausewe're like a very, you know, as
a society, we like aesthetics,we like all the things.
Um but also why are we notsaying like the people who are

(40:17):
in their 30s, 40s, 50s, you'refinding more of a sense of
yourself.
And I just feel like I'd muchrather have a conversation with
somebody who knows them that whothey are than somebody who like
thinks they know who they areand think they have all the
answers, and they don't.
I didn't at my 20s.
I thought I did, dude.

SPEAKER_01 (40:32):
I look back at myself in my 20s and I kind of
fucking hate that guy.

SPEAKER_00 (40:37):
Oh my gosh, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Like, what a piece of shit.
Honestly, what a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_00 (40:43):
I think I thought I knew everything.
I really did.

SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
I did too.
Like, I remember I remember thisone time, and you know, for a
long time I would tell thisstory as like a look how cool I
am, kind of a thing.
But now I think about it, I'mlike, no, you're you're just a
dick.
Yep.
Um, and and I was I was at anagency and um one of the one of
the account people like I meangranted, she she she crossed a

(41:06):
boundary as well because she waslike, here's what the design
should look like, and she drewit up for me.
And without even like looking atit, I just like crumble it up
and then threw it away.
In front of her?
Yeah.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, it's a good movie.
Yeah, well, uh like I felt cool,but now I'm also like that might
have been a good idea.

(41:27):
You don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (41:28):
Yeah, well, it's what we do with that after you
didn't continue to be that guy,so I mean for a little bit,
okay, for a little bit, but I'mokay now.

SPEAKER_01 (41:38):
I'm okay now.

SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
I feel like we all go through our bad years.

SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
Yeah.
Um, is there anything else weshould talk about before we go
topic hopping?

SPEAKER_00 (41:46):
I don't think so.
I feel like we've covered a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (41:48):
All right, I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (41:50):
All right.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?

SPEAKER_00 (41:54):
Oh, I hope people that when they're around me,
they feel like they're heard.
You know, I want people toremember me as being just kind
and and real and a good human tobe around.
Um, you know, as an artist, Imean, I I would love to have
people be like, oh yeah, AmyCarroll photographed my wedding

(42:15):
or my family, or I have one ofher art pieces on the wall and
it brings me joy.
You know, I want, I think, don'twe all kind of want that?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Yeah, we do.
Finish the thought.
Creativity requires letting go.
Go on.

SPEAKER_00 (42:34):
I think I think we hold things really tight.
Like I know that when I'vetried, like recently, I had a I
had a full idea in my head ofwhat I wanted to paint.
And I started the painting, andit wasn't going how I wanted to.
And I just ended up moving mypaintbrush in a whole different
way, and just it came out asthis really beautiful, amazing

(42:58):
piece because I just let go.
I didn't hold on to this conceptof what I was trying to do.
I feel the same way in in myphotography.
Let go.
Like when you're trying so hardto harness something, you get
really frustrated because thingsinevitably are not gonna go, you
know.
The like you're like, you know,I've had it at weddings where I
have this complete thought, I'mlike, oh my gosh, we're gonna go

(43:19):
over here.
This is gonna be amazing.
I want you to just, you know,look into each other's eyes or
whatever that might be, or justreally we're gonna go over here.
And whatever ends up happeningis actually more interesting
usually than what I hadconceptually in my head.
I just feel like creativityrequires a lot of letting go.

SPEAKER_01 (43:34):
It's just kind of like getting out of your own
way.

SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, of course.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (43:37):
Just letting it flow.

SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
You know, I think I feel like um the the process of
making is not the time to beprecious.

SPEAKER_00 (43:47):
That's that's the quote right there.

SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yeah.
Um, what would your last mealbe?

SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Hmm.
Well, Thai food is always mygo-to comfort food.
I love Thai food.

SPEAKER_01 (44:00):
All right, let's talk, let's talk spice level.

SPEAKER_00 (44:01):
Yep.
So it's more than West Michiganspice.

unknown (44:04):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (44:05):
But but less than, you know, I mean, maybe like a
notch up from West Michiganspice.
So, you know, I like it a littlespicy, but I need to taste the
food.

SPEAKER_01 (44:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (44:15):
You know, I can't be sweating the whole time.
Then I'm just worried aboutsweating the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
I've got a buddy who uh we went out for I think it
was Thai food.
Um, and he uh he went way toohot.
And there was a point in themeal where he's just like, I
can't hear you.

SPEAKER_00 (44:28):
Yeah, it's just uncomfortable.
I know the blood starts dry.
Yeah, all of it.
I've I've been there before.
I've had a really beautiful mealmeal in Chinatown once in New
York, and I literally Literally,like was having the most the
best time until I wasn't.
And it was just like sweat, justso much sweat.
Um yeah.
And I also like because it'sfresh in my mind that I may
change it from Thai food.

(44:49):
We were out, I was out with abunch of girlfriends in Detroit
this past weekend, and we hadthis really beautiful dinner,
and they brought out a sweetpotato.
We ordered the sweet potato onthe menu, and it was like
life-changing.
It truly was.
So it's either Thai food or thissweet potato.
It was like one of the bestbites I've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 (45:07):
Talk to me about that sweet potato.

SPEAKER_00 (45:08):
Yeah, it was incredible.
I wish I could replicate it.
It was kind of like charred, andyou know how like it, you know,
all those like sugarscaramelized and like crunchy
quinoa that was like charred ontop of it.
And then this just reallybeautiful, nuanced sauce.
It was like a little spicy, alittle sweet, and you just bit
it.
And I was like, what?
It was the first bite of ourmeal.
And we all just kind of likelooked at each other.

(45:29):
It was like a moment, you know.
I feel like we rarely have that.

SPEAKER_01 (45:31):
We're all experiencing this.

SPEAKER_00 (45:32):
Yeah, it was incredible.
So I feel like that sweet potatomight actually that's awesome.
My last meal.

SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
What's the what's the worst or the best advice
you've ever received?

SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
I don't know if this would be considered advice.
It's more of a quote, but it'sit was given by my dad, like
when I was young.
And I remember hearing it, and Iwas like, huh.
And it's just always, and it'snot this is a known quote.
This it might be a cliche quote,to be honest, but it was and it,
you know, it's the like shipsare safest in the harbor kind of

(46:06):
thing, but that's not what shipswere made for.
And you know, it's really easyto get comfortable, and you can
stay nice and happy andcomfortable in your own harbor.
And, you know, you probablywon't experience a lot of you
know hard things because you'resafe, but that's not what we're
made for.
So I'd much rather get out thereand risk getting hurt, risk

(46:27):
getting trodden down or youknow, fail.
But that's what we're made for.
And, you know, to come back,that's that's what I'm here for.
I don't want to stay safe in aharbor.
I'm gonna try a bunch of stuff.
I'm gonna enjoy that.
I might risk all of it, butthat's it's worth it to me.

SPEAKER_01 (46:44):
Yeah.
What's your walk-up song?

SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
Music fluctuates pretty fast for me.
So what would my walk-up songbe?
I'm really I've been listeningto a lot of glass animals and
polo and pan lately, and they'remore vibe than they are a
walk-up song.

SPEAKER_01 (46:58):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
Um, gosh, what would my walk-up song be?
I feel like it would be vibesmore.
So there is a song, but I can'tremember the artist.
Can I get back to you on this?
Can we pause this right here?
Let me think.
Can I look up a song reallyquick?

SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
Take a minute, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (47:14):
I feel like what is the name of the I gotta find the
yeah.
So my walk-up song is I forgotit again.
I forget that.
It's I literally was playingaround on Spotify and this came
up because I was kind of lookingfor just like good painting vibe
songs.
And La Route by Junior.

(47:36):
Junior?

SPEAKER_03 (47:37):
Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 (47:38):
I don't know.
I think I think it might be aFrench band, I don't, or a
singer.
Um, but the vibes are just likeeverything that I've been
incorporating into my likeartwork lately.
And I feel like I've just beenlike, you know how like Spotify
will just kind of like create aplaylist based on one vibe.
So then this song came up, and Iwas like, wait, what is that?
And so I've been like kind ofplaying it on repeat a lot, but
it's just obscure.

(47:58):
I don't yeah, this vibe righthere, but unfamiliar with the
band, unfamiliar with theartists, but that song has just
kind of been that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (48:06):
That's awesome.
Um, what makes you feel mostlike yourself?

SPEAKER_00 (48:10):
My friends, they're the equalizer.
Yeah, I mean, I think beingaround the people that know me
the most, because I can I cantend to I I'm a I'm an
extrovert, but I have found,especially like in the last
several years, I like a lot moretime by myself.
And then you start to forget alittle bit, like if I spend too

(48:32):
much time with myself and I can,like I am happy to be up
painting all day and doingpottery and having that be a
completely solo activity.
And then when I'm around thepeople like my husband, my son,
my friends, like they're thelike it kind of brings me back
to who I really am and why I'mdoing anything that I'm doing.
So um, especially like I, youknow, I have an almost

(48:53):
12-year-old son, and he he's umhe's witty and he cuts right to
the bone, not to be mean, but hehe definitely brings me right
back to how he knows me.
And I feel like, yeah, I reallythink it's the people that I
love the most that really makeme feel like myself.
Um, you know, doing all thecreative and the fun endeavors
that I do, I love that.

(49:14):
That's for me.
But I think when I'm thinking onthe bigger scope of it, it's the
people that I spend the timewith.

SPEAKER_01 (49:20):
Yeah.
Do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_00 (49:22):
So many.
We don't have time for that.
If we do a regret podcastepisode, we're gonna do a whole
episode.
I have I have a lot.
I have many.
And it usually involves me justbeing a selfish human.
And you know, we touched on thata little bit, but I think
anytime I feel the yuckiestabout myself, it's generally
because of an expectation that Ihad for somebody else.

(49:47):
I just don't want to be agarbage human.

SPEAKER_01 (49:49):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I have a lot of those same uhwhen you when you look back and
you're like, I was not a good, Iwas not good.

SPEAKER_00 (49:57):
No, yeah.
Those are my biggest regrets,are are just the yeah, things
that I've done.
Although, you know, I'vecertainly had where I could have
taken an opportunity that I saidno to, but there was probably a
reason for that.

SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Um, you know, but I really think the biggest regrets
are just I was standing in myway for them.

SPEAKER_01 (50:18):
Yeah.
All right.
Last question I have for you.
Are you okay?

SPEAKER_00 (50:22):
I'm good.
I feel better.
I feel better in 2026 than I didat the beginning of this decade.
And I feel like it just keepsgetting better.

SPEAKER_01 (50:31):
That's amazing.
Um, before we wrap this up, um,where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00 (50:38):
I have so many spots.
Um lay them out.
Instagram is always where I tendto spend the most time on a
social platform.
Um, so Amy Carroll Photography.
Um, I also have Amy CarrollPrint Shop, uh, another
Instagram.
Um that's kind of where I sharemore of my artwork.
Um, and then physically, I nowhave a little art space up in

(50:59):
Rockford um with Maison Blanc.
Um, I'm not there all the time,although I do go from time to
time.
Um, but you can see some of myartwork and pottery there if you
find yourself in Rockford.

SPEAKER_01 (51:11):
So dope.
All right, you want to get outof here?
Yeah.
All right.
Bad Idea Social Club is anindependent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Aaron McCall,

(51:31):
and co-hosted by photographerJoe Madison.
Music is noises by Mike Mains inthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you get your podcasts.