January 6, 2026 • 39 mins
Aaron McCall moderates a Creative Mornings Grand Rapids panel discussion on “Growth,” recorded at the Grand Rapids Civic Theatre with more than 200 people in attendance. Joined by Ian Labardee, Bailey Sell, Hannah Berry, and Leigh Ann Cobb, the conversation gets honest about what growth actually looks like once momentum builds—imposter syndrome, uncertainty, shifting priorities, burnout, community, and the small, often invisible changes that shape us over time. Recorded by Green Frog, this episode isn’t about tidy success stories. It’s about showing up, staying curious, and understanding how growth is rarely linear and rarely done alone.
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Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
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IG: @aaron_mccall
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Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
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Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:37):
I think I've reached a point this year where I'm just
like, wow, like look at all thisstuff I did.
Um, look at all the stuff I'mdoing, like, am I still enjoying
it?
Like, have I ever taken a stepback and really looked at it?
No, because I'm been tooobsessed with trying to get to
the next whatever's next, youknow.
Um, I literally I didn't eventhink about it till this
morning.
I was like looking at my hands,I was like, I literally have it
tattooed on my hands.
(00:58):
It literally says take time,grow slow.
And I'm like, I'm not, I need tofollow that.
Doing that.
I need to actually do that, youknow.
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social
Club.
My name is Aaron McCall, and Joeand Amber are off the hook for
this one, but they'll be backfor the next bonus episode.
Um so back in November, uh I hadthe opportunity and absolute
privilege to moderate uh a paneldiscussion for our friends at
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids.
Um now this was the this was thefinal event of the year, and
(01:45):
they went big.
We did it at the Grand RapidsCivic Theater with like 200 plus
people in attendance, um, and Igot to share the stage with four
just absolute motherfuckers ofthe Grand Rapids creative scene.
Um Ian Laberty from Mighty,Bailey Sell from Transfigure,
Um, Hannah Berry from Lions andRabbits, uh, and photographer
(02:07):
Leanne Cobb.
Now, Green Frog captured thewhole thing, and if you haven't
picked up on it yet, that's whatwe're doing today.
We're we're gonna play it backfor you.
Um and the panelists willintroduce themselves better um
at the top of this thing, so Idon't need to do all that.
But I do want to remind you umto please leave a five-star
review wherever you're listeningor watching, because that's a
(02:27):
thing now.
Also, this thing runs off merchsales and donations, um, and we
just launched a brand newwebsite with a brand new merch
store.
Um, and I know you've probablygot all that holiday money just
burning a hole in your pocket.
So if you want to help supportthe podcasts, give me a go over
to bad ideasocialclub.com andand buy something.
Um Okay, here it is.
SPEAKER_07 (02:51):
Um yeah, my name is Ian Labrador.
Um, I am the principal designdirector at Mighty in the
Midwest, and uh design is mybackground as well.
Let me share that if you're onthe air.
Um big fan of Creative Mornings,uh been a part of this community
for uh uh a number of years, andit's so cool to see like this
many people show up for creativemornings this morning.
(03:12):
It's just great.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Hi, uh my name is Bailey Cell.
Um I own and uh foundedTransfigure Print Co.
Uh, which is a queer andtrans-owned and operated uh
print shop, and then we alsohave uh which we started last
year, Transfigure Shop, which isa physical space in uh Creston.
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
I'm Hannah Berry.
I run Lions and Rabbit Centerfor the Arts.
We used to be in that rainbowbuilding on Plainfield, if you
are familiar with it.
It was a wedding venue that hadfloor to ceiling, local artwork,
and then we had events.
We moved out of it like afterCOVID, we fulfilled our
contracts, and then we moved outof it.
Um, but we did that so that wecould focus more on public art.
(03:55):
So we do everything fromsculptures to installing um
different things on buildingsall over the place, and then
street fairs.
SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
And good morning.
I'm Leanne Cobb.
I'm uh Thanks.
Um I'm a creative andphotographer uh here in Grand
Rapids, and I used to photographCreative Mornings for like seven
years.
And so same thing.
This is so exciting to see.
I love this community here.
I absolutely love the mantra.
(04:26):
Everyone's creative, I believethat.
And um and oh god, I'm reallygood.
Bad at interesting.
Is that thanks?
unknown (04:36):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_04 (04:37):
So let's talk uh growth, right?
It's it's messy.
It's uh it's certainly not alinear thing, uh, but it's kind
of also the only way that uhanything happens new ever.
So uh yeah, let's get into that.
Let's talk about the stuffthat's maybe a little
(04:58):
uncomfortable, and the stuffthat makes you feel weird, um
and the stuff that changes you.
So um growth is hard.
And trying new things is scary,but standing still is death.
(05:19):
So I'm sure that it's muchharder, and I'm sure that it's
much more stressful than youmake it look, Leanne.
Uh but how do you give yourselfpermission to break out of your
rhythm and say yes to newexperiences that take you to new
places creatively, personally,physically?
(05:43):
What is that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
I love these questions so much.
Um growth is hard, absolutely,but I have found that growth
gets a lot easier when you takethe pressure off of it.
So if you don't know how to uhwhat would it be, to like
initiate growth in your everydaypractices, which of course, when
(06:06):
you're in your routines,especially in your creative
flows, like it might seem reallyhard to shake it up.
So, what I like to do is trygrowth in avenues that have
nothing to do with my livelihoodor my personal craft or my
growth as a creative.
Because as a creative, you guysknow that creative problem
solving comes in more than justthe one avenue that you work in.
(06:30):
And so as soon as I take thepressure off of me to succeed,
because my expectation is Ishould be good at something, and
I try something with theexpectation of I don't know shit
about this.
And as long as I do it, I'velearned something, then I find
that growth happens naturally.
So that once I'm under pressureto do something that would be a
(06:53):
bigger version of myself orhandle something that maybe
seems harder than usual, I havethe experience of trying
something new or calming down orrealizing that, like, ha,
there's other ways to go aboutproblem solving.
And it just seems a lot easierthan having that pressure on you
all the time that you should bebetter, you should do better,
(07:16):
you can do better.
Like, just try.
And then if you fail, like,okay, what's it matter too?
Like it's it definitely makes iteasier.
SPEAKER_04 (07:23):
I feel like maybe you have a very specific
example, maybe somethingItalian.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
I I think the the example, yeah, I know.
I was I was I was nervous thiswas gonna no um.
So I as a creative, I recent sothe oh whoa, so sorry.
All right, hold on.
The coffee just kicked in.
SPEAKER_04 (07:49):
Um start pacing any second.
SPEAKER_02 (07:51):
No, literally, I was nervous I was gonna do that too.
Oh man.
Okay, so really uh when I was uphere speaking last for Creative
Mornings, I was up here with auh business partner about a new
brand that we were launching.
And it was always an experiment.
Like we were really coming at itfrom another, from another
angle, from an industry.
(08:12):
It was an androgynous swimwearcompany.
We were trying to be ethical,size inclusive, all the things
that are really almostimpossible in today's world to
manufacture feasibly.
So we closed it earlier thisyear, this summer, which was a
super bummer, but like we alsoknew that we could, we really
couldn't take it any further.
So, you know, um it was it wasbittersweet, but still like, no,
(08:36):
we did what we could.
After that, though, I wasfinding myself with a little bit
of extra free time.
And a friend of mine recommendedto me a scholarship opportunity
to study the Italian languageimmersively in Italy for a
month.
And it's a Grand Rapidsscholarship that comes out every
(08:56):
year through the Grand RapidsSister Cities, and I applied and
I got it.
And so I spent the month ofSeptember learning a new
language in Italy amongst abunch of other international
students, and it was reallyhard.
Um everyone else spoke at leasta second language because
(09:18):
English is pretty ubiquitous,but I did not have any concept
and hadn't learned a languagesince like really grade school.
So it was hard, and I wascertainly the worst at it in the
class, which was fine.
But also like it was easier tonot get frustrated at my ability
because I knew, like, oh, well,I'm gonna suck at this, you
(09:39):
know.
Like if I had gone and taken anart class in Italy and sucked at
it, I probably would have beenreally mad.
So it was great though, becauseit was a challenging thing.
And then when I was able tosucceed at it even a little bit,
it felt like a huge win.
And then traveling is hard.
And like there's so many otheraspects of like being that far
away that are they'rechallenging, they're routine
(10:02):
disrupting, but like also everysingle time I was met with a
challenge and then overcame it,it was like a fantastic reminder
of what we actually are capableof when we're out of our
everyday routine.
So it was a really greatreminder of like, oh, you know,
like who knows what opportunitywill come next, but I think I'm
ready to meet it.
And if it works, it works.
(10:22):
And if not, I know how to pivot.
So yeah.
Thanks for asking.
unknown (10:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:28):
Hannah, how are you?
Good morning.
Um, I kind of want to talk aboutlions, well, I want you to talk
about lions and rabbits.
Uh, because by now, lions andrabbits has become an
institution in Grand Rapids.
Um, so I'm curious about howyour vision for Lions and
Rabbits has evolved frominception to where things are
(10:51):
today.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
I will say that that event space made a lot of money.
So it was not the best idea toclose an event space, but um it
wasn't what I wanted to do.
So if you take where I was andthen you put the event space on
it and then all the arts, that'swhere I think that I kind of
lost what lions and rabbits uhshould be.
(11:13):
But the model in which it wascreated on was sustainable.
So when we became a for-profit,or when we moved from the
for-profit into the nonprofitspace, that was a massive
learning uh curve for me, and itstill is all of the time.
But what I've been able to learnfrom it is that we don't we
(11:35):
don't need more artists.
I know everyone is creative, andI very, very, very much value
that.
Um, but we need more people infacilitation, more people who
are ready and willing fromcross-sector to come in and help
creative because we're flyingour planes up here and they're
flying their planes witheverybody else in the right in
their solo planes, we're in ourbig planes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
Um totally get it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Right?
Like everyone's like, you'reflying a plane up here, and I'm
like, okay, so get me somebodyin finance, but um, or a lawyer.
Um but that being said, it'sbecause we're as creatives,
we're working for socialmissions.
So your social mission might besomething completely different
than mine, completely differentthan yours.
But I do know that you are ableto solve some social missions,
(12:19):
so are you, so am I.
So if we can get these people tocome into the fold of
creativity, then we are going toactually start to see the change
that we want to see.
Um, I thought you were gonna gowith the androgynous uh swimmer
and go, but then when I was inItaly, I was able to do this
with that.
And then I was like, well, yeah,so what is a global vision for
creativity?
And that's kind of where I'vealways been with lions and
(12:40):
rabbits.
Um, whether Grand Rapids thinksit's a Grand Rapids thing or
not, this is our home.
We love it here.
Um, but we also love othercommunities and want every
community to have the samebackbone.
SPEAKER_04 (12:52):
Uh, where else does the reach go to?
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
We are in Detroit, Chicago, and like Northern
California a little bit rightnow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
Um and I will say all of these people are people
who lived in Grand Rapids whowere not able to do what they
wanted to do in Grand Rapids andnow are doing it through lines
and rabbits in their hometownwith small business sponsors,
large corporate sponsors,grants, all of that in between.
When I say nonprofit is adifferent world, it is.
So if you are thinking aboutopening one, I would tell you to
(13:23):
think strongly about finding onethat has the same mission as you
do, because they probably havemultiple different resources and
it's not starting off fromscratch.
Um, and then the other thingI'll say about the nonprofit and
the for-profit thing is when youstart your LLC, your LLC may be
giving out to the world, butit's really giving to you.
A nonprofit is to give out tothe world, and then if it's
(13:43):
successful and everyone is doingwell and everything in between,
then the money comes back in.
So if you think about starting anonprofit with 10 people and you
are not going to pay anybody,it's probably gonna stay that
way.
So the the the ability to becomesustainable sometimes is not
really, or like what your longgoal is might actually have some
(14:03):
accreditation to like what kindof tax bracket or whatever you
want to set up too.
SPEAKER_04 (14:09):
I think I think a lot like lions and well,
actually nothing like lions andrabbits.
Uh uh Transfigure has evolved insome really interesting ways
too.
Um but not just as a brand.
I I I think you know it's alsoan extension of who you are,
Bailey.
Um and and I think knowing youuh uh as well as I do, that line
(14:33):
is blurry as shit.
Right?
Is that fair?
Yeah, yes.
So so uh Transfigure has kind ofbecome this hub for community
and creativity and belonging.
Was that was that always thegoal?
SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
Um, I think that was the goal.
Um, I don't think I had any ideaand how I wanted to get there.
Um, so it's kind of been asurprise to see how quickly I
got there and um what it's beenlike now that I'm here.
Um I think when I started out,uh my only um plan was to find a
(15:11):
way to merge my love forprintmaking and what I was
making at school while I was atKendall with um my love for the
trans community and the queercommunity that I have, you know,
found myself a part of.
And I I wanted to find a way tomerge those two things and you
know, create a life out of it,create a career out of it.
Um so I started by, you know,just making shirts and selling
(15:35):
those.
Um I introduced kind of uh ourbiggest part of Transfigure is
um the mutual aid aspect of it.
Um and I think the the further Igot with you know creating stuff
for myself, I realized um thebigger picture for me was to um
create a space that I couldshare with other people.
(15:57):
Um I think personally um I'm aperson who doesn't really enjoy
the spotlight.
I don't like I'm veryuncomfortable right now.
SPEAKER_06 (16:05):
You're in the right space.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
Um so uh I think long term I really wanted to um
have a business that I couldkind of you know be in the
background of but still operateand be able to yeah, create a
space that I could share.
And so, you know, I um startedcreating this platform uh and
(16:30):
started introducing a lot ofdifferent um initiatives that I
could uh find ways to um workwith other people and give them
more of the spotlight thanmyself.
And a lot of those things umended up being, yeah, our we
created a mutual aid fund thatwe uh donate uh funds directly
to trans and queer people.
Um we donate um also on top ofthat monthly to different
(16:54):
nonprofits and organizations allthrough our our sales from our
shirts.
Um we uh uh opened up the thestore last year um in Creston.
Um so that's a hub for you knowcreatives as well.
We have probably close to 200different uh artists and um
small businesses that we selltheir merch in the store.
(17:16):
Um and then recently too, Iguess not recently, but three
years ago, we started somethingcalled Transfuse.
We collaborate with the GrandRapids Trans Foundation um to
create which what was originallyjust an artist market, um, but
it has transformed into anartist market.
Um we have you knowentertainment, we have drag and
(17:38):
um musical entertainment, um, wehave food, local food, drink.
Um this year we did it at the umthe farmers market and it was
our biggest one yet.
It totally exceeded everyexpectation we had, and that was
amazing.
And I think um, yeah, it uhdefinitely to go back to your
(17:58):
question.
I think um I kind of I had anidea of you know what I liked
and what I wanted to do.
I don't think I knew how to doit, and now that I have done it,
I'm just like, whoa, like Ididn't realize that was
possible.
I'm glad that I'm here.
Um, but I also really I think mybiggest thing about Transfigure
(18:19):
is I really enjoy that I've I'vecultivated this space that you
know I don't have to be at theforefront.
Like that's not the point.
Like the point is to to sharethe space that I've the platform
that I've created, this bigplatform, you know, this big
social media presence, thesephysical spaces.
Um, and I can share that withother people and you know give
my time and my money to peoplethat that need it.
(18:40):
I love you for that.
SPEAKER_04 (18:46):
Um I don't have a segue, so so um but you know
we've we've all had to grow andevolve as we think about how we
think about and react to uhsocial and uh political moments.
Um and Ian since becomingpartner at Mighty.
(19:10):
Is that how new is that?
SPEAKER_07 (19:13):
Oh, that was 2019.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
Uh okay, so I don't have to say congratulations,
you're fine.
Yeah, it's been a minute.
But how have you navigated thatresponsibility with your team
externally and also what hasthat growth been to you?
SPEAKER_07 (19:28):
Yeah.
Yeah, so when so when I spoke attwenty in creative mornings, it
was 2017, so this was just notnot too long after that.
Um and there was there were afew things happening in the
world around 2017, 2018, 2019.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, a couple things stand out.
Um you know, I think I think umI'm a person that has always
(19:51):
liked I like to operate with aplan.
And um, you know, I feel likemoving into that role around
that time uh stretched me a bitbecause um there wasn't, you
know, we didn't really, we don'tnone of us really had a great
plan, none of us really had agreat playbook for navigating
both the social moments of thattime, but also kind of what was
happening um with the pandemicand all of that, and trying to
(20:14):
understand how to how do welead, you know, in that moment.
And um, you know, I think Ithink one of the things that I
really took away from some ofthat transition in my own
experience was um growth doesn'talways happen in goal-oriented
ways.
You know, sometimes it's we canbe really motivated by a
(20:34):
specific plan and goal, butsometimes um life just happens
and we have to, you know,navigate in the midst of what we
aren't sure of.
And that's actually a a greatopportunity for growth to
happen.
Um, you know, for our team, alot of it was really trying to
understand, and I think even youknow, as leaders of any group of
people in that period of time,you kind of had to figure out
(20:57):
what um what's what's the mostimportant thing for us to speak
into and be certain about rightnow.
Um, but I think for mepersonally, a lot of it had to
do with understanding that umit's okay to to say I don't
really know.
And it's okay to say um I don'treally have the perfect plan or
clear action right now.
Um, and being okay with leaninginto some curiosity in that
(21:22):
moment.
And um that that's actuallysomething that I think I hope
that you know a lot a lot ofpeople were able to take away
from that time um because it'sbeen something that I think has
really helped um me continueforward in that way.
Um understanding that uh youknow, we we sometimes can learn
the most from people that arearound us when we say, I'm not
(21:45):
really sure.
Here's what this here's whatthis means to me, you know, in
the moment right now, and here'swhat that looks like.
And then I think the other thingum that uh was helpful in in
that that transitional time isgoing back to sort of the things
that I hold to true to to bevalues and uh that mighty holds
to be values.
(22:05):
Um sometimes in in moments wherethings are new and uncertain and
unclear, um, it's just simplygoing back to okay, what do I
know to be true right now?
What do I hold on to in terms ofof of value and meaning?
And then how can I just operatefrom that little bit of clarity
and understanding and um allowpeople around me to kind of
(22:28):
embrace that and understand thatand and grow along with me?
SPEAKER_04 (22:31):
So how did you how did you even get to that way of
operating?
Because that that can't be anatural thing.
That just happens.
SPEAKER_07 (22:39):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I for some probably it is.
I think for for me, um, it'spracticing just humility and
being okay with like exposinghumility to people around me.
That's it, that takes a certainamount of vulnerability, I
think, which um I'm historicallynot great at.
So that was a an area of growththat like pushed me a bit.
How do you be vulnerable withpeople that um you're charged
(23:01):
with sort of you know beingresponsible for?
Um, that's a challenge.
Um, but I think if you can ifyou can approach that with with
humility, uh it gets you a longway.
One other thing I'll say aboutcuriosity is that um I think
people also um are very dialedinto fake curiosity.
Um, I think it's really you haveto be really careful to to be
(23:21):
genuine when you're curious.
Um, it's really easy tosometimes try to lead someone to
something through sort of thislike disingenuous curiosity.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant to check yourself and
make sure that as you'renavigating that space, um, your
curiosity comes from like a anhonest place.
(23:41):
And that starts with umrecognizing that you don't
always have all the answers, andthat's okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
I love that.
Um on vulnerability, um Leanne,as a photographer and a creative
and a person, talk to me aboutvulnerability and showing up
fully um and and when yourecognize that as like a must.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, well, I will say doing portraiture
vulnerability is like theperfect way to level the playing
field between you and yoursubject.
And so it's for me, it's a greatanalogy.
It's a way for me to reallypractice vulnerability,
authentic vulnerability, thissense of like, ooh, like how are
you checking in, how are you?
Um but even uh what was I gonnasay?
(24:32):
Vulnerability, hold on, thankyou, sorry.
Oh, okay.
No, this is good.
Um I'm so nervous.
Um shake it off, shake it off.
No, thank you.
Oh my god.
Okay, so the thing about beingvulnerable, right?
Like vulnerability has a bad rapbecause really it it means that
(24:54):
you're you're easily hurt.
Uh and and I think that's onlypart of what I would consider
the definition or thepossibility.
If you're vulnerable and you'reeasily sensitive and you're
easily someone who's prone to,you know, negative emotions or
negative reactions to something,that also means that you're also
prone to extreme highs inemotions and excitement and awe
(25:17):
and curiosity.
And I think being vulnerablemeans that you can be both of
those things and you can tapinto other people's empathy in a
way that like allows for thatauthentic vulnerability to
actually be helpful.
Like, oh, I I can see why whyyou might be nervous.
Well, don't worry, I've got you.
(25:38):
And and so I don't know, I Ithink um really just shedding
shame away from that word is areally important uh practice for
creatives because oursensitivity is what makes us so
good at picking out what is thecreative thing we should do, how
we problem solve, how we how wethink critically about the
(26:00):
world.
And so, yeah, it's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's also something we're gonnahave to learn over and over and
over and over again.
So you're not gonna get it rightevery time.
Don't beat yourself up about it.
That's why they call it thecreative process.
And um, yeah, it's it's gonna belifelong.
And how exciting is that?
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
Well, and with and with growth and vulnerability
comes pains.
So you know, every single one ofus in this room is kind of on
our own unique path.
Um and it's really, really easyto get lost.
Um Hannah.
How do you recognize when you'vedrifted?
(26:42):
Uh and then how do you kind ofpull things back into focus?
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
I uh have been struggling with this question
because I am a drifter.
Uh like by nature, I am like,well, that aligns with
creativity, so let's go.
Um and Leanne and I were talkingabout this behind the curtain of
like we say yes to opportunity,and we've known each other for
quite some time.
So if the opportunity presentsitself there and we can figure
(27:09):
out a way where there's a will,there's a way, that is what
we'll do.
Um, but I would say the thedrift is more on the team, um, I
would say, or like the peoplebehind the work, because we are
supporting so many creativepeople.
And yes, not every project isawesome for every artist, but
there are certain times wherethe people who are working
(27:31):
street parties are working24-hour two-day work weeks, but
then an entire work week on topof it.
And does that really work forthem?
Um, and then they're supposed togo do something completely
different the next day.
So I would say the mission drifthasn't really happened.
I would say it's solidifieditself stronger than ever in
this last year.
But the ability to keep asustainable running operation in
(27:55):
West Michigan that does do a lotwith creatives who are
advocates, sometimes for thingsthat people don't want other
people to advocate for.
So, so really being able to leanin and be vulnerable and say no
when it is just not gonna workout, and yes, when it's gonna
work.
(28:15):
So a lot of the last year hasbeen taking the things that
haven't worked and saying, well,did this not work because it
financially didn't work?
Or did it not work because thecommunity didn't like it?
If it was because it'sfinancially not working, well,
then that's a different decisionto talk about.
If it's because the communitydidn't want it, then that is
where our focus needs to bebecause that's the advocacy work
(28:36):
that Lions and Rabbits needs tobe working in this next year.
So a lot of the work that we dois pushing the needle forward.
Discovery work is what we callit.
Um, but it's so that creativescan then have their platform.
And we didn't used to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (28:51):
Bailey, talk to me about the little wins.
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
Yeah, I was thinking a lot about that question last
night.
And I think um uh one of thegreat things about uh doing
Transfigure and uh being able togive so much is seeing how that
is received.
Um and I think um little winsfor that means you know, working
at the the store and seeing um,you know, kids come in.
(29:19):
Sometimes they come in withtheir parents, sometimes they
wander in on their own.
We're right down the road fromthe high school.
So there's a yeah, there's a lotof kids that come in and um just
to see, you know, how happy itmakes them to see the stuff that
we have in the store that youcan't, you know, really find
many other places in GrandRapids and uh yeah, to see just
like the happiness it bringsthem.
(29:40):
I think that's um something thatreally keeps me going through
the days where I am like, whatthis is this is a lot.
Um but uh so yeah, that I meanwe see that a lot at events too,
like Pride events.
Um a lot of kids walk up to usand just tell us how happy they
are to be there and see ourstuff and um yeah, some bigger
(30:00):
ones.
I mean, yeah, like I mentionedthe transfused market.
I think um what was really clearto me after that was um we need
stuff like that in Grand Rapids.
And um I think hearing so muchfrom not only the vendors um but
just people that came as well,just like really appreciated
what we were able to do and thespace we were able to provide.
(30:23):
Um, I mean, I I I I love all ofthat.
I love all of that feedback andum it yeah, just like stuff like
that, I think really keeps megoing.
And um yeah, just I appreciateall of the the positive, um
mostly always positive stuffthat I get from from doing
Transfakure.
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
What about everybody else?
Little wins?
Any thoughts?
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh as a creative person thatgoes into a lot of rooms with uh
some top dogs, uh being able tounderstand the lay of the land
is really important, I think.
And so a little wind to me is Ijust was with one of the major
grocery stores in Detroittalking to them about the food
(31:09):
desert, talking to them aboutwhere other grocery stores will
not put stores, talking aboutheated sidewalks from
refrigeration stations, and theyare now in conversation with
that neighborhood about puttinga grocery store in there.
So it's it's really the arts areI mean, that's and the reason
we're working on this project isthrough the American Cancer
Society.
So if you're in a meeting andthen in a meeting and in a
(31:31):
meeting, that's seven differentcreatives that can be impacted.
SPEAKER_04 (31:33):
So love that.
You guys got anything or or ordid I break you?
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
No, I think I mean sometimes all we have is little
wins.
I mean, you're not always gonnaget a big win.
And I think it's easy for us,because we are very critical
about what we do and we have tobe, um, to kind of forget to pat
ourselves on the back.
So yeah, embrace the littlewins.
It's it's okay.
SPEAKER_07 (31:59):
Yeah, I I will echo that 100%, Leanne, because I
think that um it's like a hugepart of growing is reflecting.
You know, like if you don't everstep back and reflect, then it's
kind of sometimes, at least forme, it's it's hard to like
observe growth happening inmyself.
Um and sometimes, yeah, all youhave are are little wins.
(32:20):
But, you know, taken taken overtime and accumulation of those
things, you can really start toall of a sudden understand, oh,
that's the path.
That's trickery, that's that'sgrowth.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:31):
I got I've got one more note on that because it
reminded me, which is myfavorite analogy, and I think
you guys will appreciate it.
And it's like when you'reworking on something, you're
looking at the details, right?
Like you're you're this like ifit's a painting, you're this
close to the canvas.
And sometimes it's really hardif we haven't trained ourselves
to like put the brush down, takea step back from the doorway and
(32:52):
look at it as a whole.
And if you don't know how to dothat and you can't remember to
do it, bring somebody in theroom, right?
Like this is why community in somany ways matters, friends that
you can trust, people that knowhow hard you were working on
those little details, becausethey're gonna be able to step
back, see the whole thing.
And maybe they'll give you someinsight that you just couldn't
(33:16):
see in your current moment.
And especially if you're afreelancer, you don't always get
that feedback.
So you need to seek it out andconsider it a uh uh a strength
to be able to say, like, I need,I would love your input.
So your community matters, thepeople you include in your life
matter, and if they know youwell, then they're going to
(33:39):
advocate for your growth.
SPEAKER_04 (33:42):
So one more.
Before we wrap things up, what'swhat's one thing that each of
you want to leave these lovelypeople with?
I said it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:58):
Um I think something that's been really prevalent for
me this year um is to justreally take your time.
I think with growthspecifically, it's um it's hard
to not always be looking forwhat what what's the next step,
you know, how to climb theladder, how to make the most
money, how to progress yourbusiness, how to do all these
(34:19):
things.
And it's easy to do that superquick.
And I think I've reached a pointthis year where I'm just like,
wow, like look at all this stuffI did, um, look at all the stuff
I'm doing, like, am I stillenjoying it?
Like, have I ever taken a stepback and really looked at it?
No, because I've been tooobsessed with trying to get to
the next whatever's next, youknow.
Um, I literally I didn't eventhink about it till this
(34:40):
morning.
I was like looking at my hands,I was like, I literally have it
tattooed on my hands.
It literally says, take time,grow slow.
And I'm like, I'm not, I need tofollow that.
I'm not doing that.
I need to actually do that, youknow?
Um so yeah, I guess I would saydefinitely take your time.
It's okay to grow slow.
You don't always have to move ata fast pace.
That's what that's what theywant you to do, but you don't
have to do that.
(35:01):
Um and so yeah, that's that'swhat I would leave people with.
SPEAKER_04 (35:04):
You have any you have any tricks to like course
correct?
You just lean into the skid.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
Yeah, just like yeah, just tattoo it on you and
then look at it occasionally, Iguess.
SPEAKER_04 (35:21):
Anna, Ian, you guys got anything?
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Um I will say I would like to leave everyone
with hope.
Um, but bipartisan relationshipsare crucial right now.
I think that that is the biggestthing that we need to work on uh
because nothing is going to getsolved on one or two or three
sides of whatever party.
Um and so if we cancollectively, as Grand Rapids
(35:47):
creatives, redefine what webelieve arts and culture means
and then ping it up to thestate, then maybe we'll start to
see the state of Michiganworking together and creatives
being able to thrive throughoutthe entire state.
SPEAKER_07 (36:04):
Um I think those are those are great answers.
I think for me, um the thingthat I would probably leave
folks with is this idea that umclarity is is actually
relatively rare.
And that's something that I feellike I was disenfranchised about
for a long time.
I I operated for a long timethinking that you know my own
(36:24):
lack of clarity or uncertaintywas something with my own growth
pattern.
And I think the truth is thatit's actually more often than
not that we we navigate thingsfrom a place of uncertainty and
lack of clarity.
And um I think that's okay.
I think we can still navigatethe world um in a way that is uh
(36:47):
intentional and directed.
It's a little bit like using acompass instead of GPS, which
might be an absolute, you know,a compass is a tool that we have
in the moments of uncertaintywhere we have to sort of
navigate the world of thingsbased on what we have right in
front of us.
And um, I think understandingthat you can do that if you have
(37:08):
just enough understanding ofyour own values and what's
important to you.
And then the other thing I wouldsay is that growth is a team
sport and it takes people aroundus, like kind of like you you
were talking about, Leanne andHannah, you're talking about um
and Bailey too.
Um we need people around us tohelp us both identify moments of
(37:29):
growth for us, but also to helpus measure our own growth.
And then I think we have to alsopay attention to the the team
members that are internal to usto help us understand how our
rhythm needs to change atcertain points in order to
actually grow and actually ummake those little changes, like
you talked about, that becomethe little disciplines that help
(37:52):
us take those steps forward thatall of a sudden when we reflect
and look back, we see uh thatwas the path.
SPEAKER_04 (37:58):
So that's great.
This has been super fun for meto sit up here with with you
guys who you know I love andrespect most of you.
And um but that's gonna do itfor us.
Um give your panel claffordthem.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
Bad idea social club is an independent podcast made
possible by donations, merchsales, and reviews.
SPEAKER_05 (38:34):
Graphic designer Aaron McCullough is our host,
music editor, and writer,co-hosts of Amber Gray and me,
Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Music by Mike Mains and the branches.
Follow along wherever you getyour podcast.
I think I've reached a point this year where I'm just
like, wow, like look at all thisstuff I did.
Um, look at all the stuff I'mdoing, like, am I still enjoying
it?
Like, have I ever taken a stepback and really looked at it?
No, because I'm been tooobsessed with trying to get to
the next whatever's next, youknow.
Um, I literally I didn't eventhink about it till this
morning.
I was like looking at my hands,I was like, I literally have it
tattooed on my hands.
(00:58):
It literally says take time,grow slow.
And I'm like, I'm not, I need tofollow that.
Doing that.
I need to actually do that, youknow.
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social
Club.
My name is Aaron McCall, and Joeand Amber are off the hook for
this one, but they'll be backfor the next bonus episode.
Um so back in November, uh I hadthe opportunity and absolute
privilege to moderate uh a paneldiscussion for our friends at
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids.
Um now this was the this was thefinal event of the year, and
(01:45):
they went big.
We did it at the Grand RapidsCivic Theater with like 200 plus
people in attendance, um, and Igot to share the stage with four
just absolute motherfuckers ofthe Grand Rapids creative scene.
Um Ian Laberty from Mighty,Bailey Sell from Transfigure,
Um, Hannah Berry from Lions andRabbits, uh, and photographer
(02:07):
Leanne Cobb.
Now, Green Frog captured thewhole thing, and if you haven't
picked up on it yet, that's whatwe're doing today.
We're we're gonna play it backfor you.
Um and the panelists willintroduce themselves better um
at the top of this thing, so Idon't need to do all that.
But I do want to remind you umto please leave a five-star
review wherever you're listeningor watching, because that's a
(02:27):
thing now.
Also, this thing runs off merchsales and donations, um, and we
just launched a brand newwebsite with a brand new merch
store.
Um, and I know you've probablygot all that holiday money just
burning a hole in your pocket.
So if you want to help supportthe podcasts, give me a go over
to bad ideasocialclub.com andand buy something.
Um Okay, here it is.
SPEAKER_07 (02:51):
Um yeah, my name is Ian Labrador.
Um, I am the principal designdirector at Mighty in the
Midwest, and uh design is mybackground as well.
Let me share that if you're onthe air.
Um big fan of Creative Mornings,uh been a part of this community
for uh uh a number of years, andit's so cool to see like this
many people show up for creativemornings this morning.
(03:12):
It's just great.
SPEAKER_03 (03:14):
Hi, uh my name is Bailey Cell.
Um I own and uh foundedTransfigure Print Co.
Uh, which is a queer andtrans-owned and operated uh
print shop, and then we alsohave uh which we started last
year, Transfigure Shop, which isa physical space in uh Creston.
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
I'm Hannah Berry.
I run Lions and Rabbit Centerfor the Arts.
We used to be in that rainbowbuilding on Plainfield, if you
are familiar with it.
It was a wedding venue that hadfloor to ceiling, local artwork,
and then we had events.
We moved out of it like afterCOVID, we fulfilled our
contracts, and then we moved outof it.
Um, but we did that so that wecould focus more on public art.
(03:55):
So we do everything fromsculptures to installing um
different things on buildingsall over the place, and then
street fairs.
SPEAKER_02 (04:05):
And good morning.
I'm Leanne Cobb.
I'm uh Thanks.
Um I'm a creative andphotographer uh here in Grand
Rapids, and I used to photographCreative Mornings for like seven
years.
And so same thing.
This is so exciting to see.
I love this community here.
I absolutely love the mantra.
(04:26):
Everyone's creative, I believethat.
And um and oh god, I'm reallygood.
Bad at interesting.
Is that thanks?
unknown (04:36):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_04 (04:37):
So let's talk uh growth, right?
It's it's messy.
It's uh it's certainly not alinear thing, uh, but it's kind
of also the only way that uhanything happens new ever.
So uh yeah, let's get into that.
Let's talk about the stuffthat's maybe a little
(04:58):
uncomfortable, and the stuffthat makes you feel weird, um
and the stuff that changes you.
So um growth is hard.
And trying new things is scary,but standing still is death.
(05:19):
So I'm sure that it's muchharder, and I'm sure that it's
much more stressful than youmake it look, Leanne.
Uh but how do you give yourselfpermission to break out of your
rhythm and say yes to newexperiences that take you to new
places creatively, personally,physically?
(05:43):
What is that?
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
I love these questions so much.
Um growth is hard, absolutely,but I have found that growth
gets a lot easier when you takethe pressure off of it.
So if you don't know how to uhwhat would it be, to like
initiate growth in your everydaypractices, which of course, when
(06:06):
you're in your routines,especially in your creative
flows, like it might seem reallyhard to shake it up.
So, what I like to do is trygrowth in avenues that have
nothing to do with my livelihoodor my personal craft or my
growth as a creative.
Because as a creative, you guysknow that creative problem
solving comes in more than justthe one avenue that you work in.
(06:30):
And so as soon as I take thepressure off of me to succeed,
because my expectation is Ishould be good at something, and
I try something with theexpectation of I don't know shit
about this.
And as long as I do it, I'velearned something, then I find
that growth happens naturally.
So that once I'm under pressureto do something that would be a
(06:53):
bigger version of myself orhandle something that maybe
seems harder than usual, I havethe experience of trying
something new or calming down orrealizing that, like, ha,
there's other ways to go aboutproblem solving.
And it just seems a lot easierthan having that pressure on you
all the time that you should bebetter, you should do better,
(07:16):
you can do better.
Like, just try.
And then if you fail, like,okay, what's it matter too?
Like it's it definitely makes iteasier.
SPEAKER_04 (07:23):
I feel like maybe you have a very specific
example, maybe somethingItalian.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
I I think the the example, yeah, I know.
I was I was I was nervous thiswas gonna no um.
So I as a creative, I recent sothe oh whoa, so sorry.
All right, hold on.
The coffee just kicked in.
SPEAKER_04 (07:49):
Um start pacing any second.
SPEAKER_02 (07:51):
No, literally, I was nervous I was gonna do that too.
Oh man.
Okay, so really uh when I was uphere speaking last for Creative
Mornings, I was up here with auh business partner about a new
brand that we were launching.
And it was always an experiment.
Like we were really coming at itfrom another, from another
angle, from an industry.
(08:12):
It was an androgynous swimwearcompany.
We were trying to be ethical,size inclusive, all the things
that are really almostimpossible in today's world to
manufacture feasibly.
So we closed it earlier thisyear, this summer, which was a
super bummer, but like we alsoknew that we could, we really
couldn't take it any further.
So, you know, um it was it wasbittersweet, but still like, no,
(08:36):
we did what we could.
After that, though, I wasfinding myself with a little bit
of extra free time.
And a friend of mine recommendedto me a scholarship opportunity
to study the Italian languageimmersively in Italy for a
month.
And it's a Grand Rapidsscholarship that comes out every
(08:56):
year through the Grand RapidsSister Cities, and I applied and
I got it.
And so I spent the month ofSeptember learning a new
language in Italy amongst abunch of other international
students, and it was reallyhard.
Um everyone else spoke at leasta second language because
(09:18):
English is pretty ubiquitous,but I did not have any concept
and hadn't learned a languagesince like really grade school.
So it was hard, and I wascertainly the worst at it in the
class, which was fine.
But also like it was easier tonot get frustrated at my ability
because I knew, like, oh, well,I'm gonna suck at this, you
(09:39):
know.
Like if I had gone and taken anart class in Italy and sucked at
it, I probably would have beenreally mad.
So it was great though, becauseit was a challenging thing.
And then when I was able tosucceed at it even a little bit,
it felt like a huge win.
And then traveling is hard.
And like there's so many otheraspects of like being that far
away that are they'rechallenging, they're routine
(10:02):
disrupting, but like also everysingle time I was met with a
challenge and then overcame it,it was like a fantastic reminder
of what we actually are capableof when we're out of our
everyday routine.
So it was a really greatreminder of like, oh, you know,
like who knows what opportunitywill come next, but I think I'm
ready to meet it.
And if it works, it works.
(10:22):
And if not, I know how to pivot.
So yeah.
Thanks for asking.
unknown (10:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:28):
Hannah, how are you?
Good morning.
Um, I kind of want to talk aboutlions, well, I want you to talk
about lions and rabbits.
Uh, because by now, lions andrabbits has become an
institution in Grand Rapids.
Um, so I'm curious about howyour vision for Lions and
Rabbits has evolved frominception to where things are
(10:51):
today.
SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
I will say that that event space made a lot of money.
So it was not the best idea toclose an event space, but um it
wasn't what I wanted to do.
So if you take where I was andthen you put the event space on
it and then all the arts, that'swhere I think that I kind of
lost what lions and rabbits uhshould be.
(11:13):
But the model in which it wascreated on was sustainable.
So when we became a for-profit,or when we moved from the
for-profit into the nonprofitspace, that was a massive
learning uh curve for me, and itstill is all of the time.
But what I've been able to learnfrom it is that we don't we
(11:35):
don't need more artists.
I know everyone is creative, andI very, very, very much value
that.
Um, but we need more people infacilitation, more people who
are ready and willing fromcross-sector to come in and help
creative because we're flyingour planes up here and they're
flying their planes witheverybody else in the right in
their solo planes, we're in ourbig planes.
SPEAKER_04 (11:55):
Um totally get it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Right?
Like everyone's like, you'reflying a plane up here, and I'm
like, okay, so get me somebodyin finance, but um, or a lawyer.
Um but that being said, it'sbecause we're as creatives,
we're working for socialmissions.
So your social mission might besomething completely different
than mine, completely differentthan yours.
But I do know that you are ableto solve some social missions,
(12:19):
so are you, so am I.
So if we can get these people tocome into the fold of
creativity, then we are going toactually start to see the change
that we want to see.
Um, I thought you were gonna gowith the androgynous uh swimmer
and go, but then when I was inItaly, I was able to do this
with that.
And then I was like, well, yeah,so what is a global vision for
creativity?
And that's kind of where I'vealways been with lions and
(12:40):
rabbits.
Um, whether Grand Rapids thinksit's a Grand Rapids thing or
not, this is our home.
We love it here.
Um, but we also love othercommunities and want every
community to have the samebackbone.
SPEAKER_04 (12:52):
Uh, where else does the reach go to?
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
We are in Detroit, Chicago, and like Northern
California a little bit rightnow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
Um and I will say all of these people are people
who lived in Grand Rapids whowere not able to do what they
wanted to do in Grand Rapids andnow are doing it through lines
and rabbits in their hometownwith small business sponsors,
large corporate sponsors,grants, all of that in between.
When I say nonprofit is adifferent world, it is.
So if you are thinking aboutopening one, I would tell you to
(13:23):
think strongly about finding onethat has the same mission as you
do, because they probably havemultiple different resources and
it's not starting off fromscratch.
Um, and then the other thingI'll say about the nonprofit and
the for-profit thing is when youstart your LLC, your LLC may be
giving out to the world, butit's really giving to you.
A nonprofit is to give out tothe world, and then if it's
(13:43):
successful and everyone is doingwell and everything in between,
then the money comes back in.
So if you think about starting anonprofit with 10 people and you
are not going to pay anybody,it's probably gonna stay that
way.
So the the the ability to becomesustainable sometimes is not
really, or like what your longgoal is might actually have some
(14:03):
accreditation to like what kindof tax bracket or whatever you
want to set up too.
SPEAKER_04 (14:09):
I think I think a lot like lions and well,
actually nothing like lions andrabbits.
Uh uh Transfigure has evolved insome really interesting ways
too.
Um but not just as a brand.
I I I think you know it's alsoan extension of who you are,
Bailey.
Um and and I think knowing youuh uh as well as I do, that line
(14:33):
is blurry as shit.
Right?
Is that fair?
Yeah, yes.
So so uh Transfigure has kind ofbecome this hub for community
and creativity and belonging.
Was that was that always thegoal?
SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
Um, I think that was the goal.
Um, I don't think I had any ideaand how I wanted to get there.
Um, so it's kind of been asurprise to see how quickly I
got there and um what it's beenlike now that I'm here.
Um I think when I started out,uh my only um plan was to find a
(15:11):
way to merge my love forprintmaking and what I was
making at school while I was atKendall with um my love for the
trans community and the queercommunity that I have, you know,
found myself a part of.
And I I wanted to find a way tomerge those two things and you
know, create a life out of it,create a career out of it.
Um so I started by, you know,just making shirts and selling
(15:35):
those.
Um I introduced kind of uh ourbiggest part of Transfigure is
um the mutual aid aspect of it.
Um and I think the the further Igot with you know creating stuff
for myself, I realized um thebigger picture for me was to um
create a space that I couldshare with other people.
(15:57):
Um I think personally um I'm aperson who doesn't really enjoy
the spotlight.
I don't like I'm veryuncomfortable right now.
SPEAKER_06 (16:05):
You're in the right space.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:08):
Um so uh I think long term I really wanted to um
have a business that I couldkind of you know be in the
background of but still operateand be able to yeah, create a
space that I could share.
And so, you know, I um startedcreating this platform uh and
(16:30):
started introducing a lot ofdifferent um initiatives that I
could uh find ways to um workwith other people and give them
more of the spotlight thanmyself.
And a lot of those things umended up being, yeah, our we
created a mutual aid fund thatwe uh donate uh funds directly
to trans and queer people.
Um we donate um also on top ofthat monthly to different
(16:54):
nonprofits and organizations allthrough our our sales from our
shirts.
Um we uh uh opened up the thestore last year um in Creston.
Um so that's a hub for you knowcreatives as well.
We have probably close to 200different uh artists and um
small businesses that we selltheir merch in the store.
(17:16):
Um and then recently too, Iguess not recently, but three
years ago, we started somethingcalled Transfuse.
We collaborate with the GrandRapids Trans Foundation um to
create which what was originallyjust an artist market, um, but
it has transformed into anartist market.
Um we have you knowentertainment, we have drag and
(17:38):
um musical entertainment, um, wehave food, local food, drink.
Um this year we did it at the umthe farmers market and it was
our biggest one yet.
It totally exceeded everyexpectation we had, and that was
amazing.
And I think um, yeah, it uhdefinitely to go back to your
(17:58):
question.
I think um I kind of I had anidea of you know what I liked
and what I wanted to do.
I don't think I knew how to doit, and now that I have done it,
I'm just like, whoa, like Ididn't realize that was
possible.
I'm glad that I'm here.
Um, but I also really I think mybiggest thing about Transfigure
(18:19):
is I really enjoy that I've I'vecultivated this space that you
know I don't have to be at theforefront.
Like that's not the point.
Like the point is to to sharethe space that I've the platform
that I've created, this bigplatform, you know, this big
social media presence, thesephysical spaces.
Um, and I can share that withother people and you know give
my time and my money to peoplethat that need it.
(18:40):
I love you for that.
SPEAKER_04 (18:46):
Um I don't have a segue, so so um but you know
we've we've all had to grow andevolve as we think about how we
think about and react to uhsocial and uh political moments.
Um and Ian since becomingpartner at Mighty.
(19:10):
Is that how new is that?
SPEAKER_07 (19:13):
Oh, that was 2019.
SPEAKER_04 (19:14):
Uh okay, so I don't have to say congratulations,
you're fine.
Yeah, it's been a minute.
But how have you navigated thatresponsibility with your team
externally and also what hasthat growth been to you?
SPEAKER_07 (19:28):
Yeah.
Yeah, so when so when I spoke attwenty in creative mornings, it
was 2017, so this was just notnot too long after that.
Um and there was there were afew things happening in the
world around 2017, 2018, 2019.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, a couple things stand out.
Um you know, I think I think umI'm a person that has always
(19:51):
liked I like to operate with aplan.
And um, you know, I feel likemoving into that role around
that time uh stretched me a bitbecause um there wasn't, you
know, we didn't really, we don'tnone of us really had a great
plan, none of us really had agreat playbook for navigating
both the social moments of thattime, but also kind of what was
happening um with the pandemicand all of that, and trying to
(20:14):
understand how to how do welead, you know, in that moment.
And um, you know, I think Ithink one of the things that I
really took away from some ofthat transition in my own
experience was um growth doesn'talways happen in goal-oriented
ways.
You know, sometimes it's we canbe really motivated by a
(20:34):
specific plan and goal, butsometimes um life just happens
and we have to, you know,navigate in the midst of what we
aren't sure of.
And that's actually a a greatopportunity for growth to
happen.
Um, you know, for our team, alot of it was really trying to
understand, and I think even youknow, as leaders of any group of
people in that period of time,you kind of had to figure out
(20:57):
what um what's what's the mostimportant thing for us to speak
into and be certain about rightnow.
Um, but I think for mepersonally, a lot of it had to
do with understanding that umit's okay to to say I don't
really know.
And it's okay to say um I don'treally have the perfect plan or
clear action right now.
Um, and being okay with leaninginto some curiosity in that
(21:22):
moment.
And um that that's actuallysomething that I think I hope
that you know a lot a lot ofpeople were able to take away
from that time um because it'sbeen something that I think has
really helped um me continueforward in that way.
Um understanding that uh youknow, we we sometimes can learn
the most from people that arearound us when we say, I'm not
(21:45):
really sure.
Here's what this here's whatthis means to me, you know, in
the moment right now, and here'swhat that looks like.
And then I think the other thingum that uh was helpful in in
that that transitional time isgoing back to sort of the things
that I hold to true to to bevalues and uh that mighty holds
to be values.
(22:05):
Um sometimes in in moments wherethings are new and uncertain and
unclear, um, it's just simplygoing back to okay, what do I
know to be true right now?
What do I hold on to in terms ofof of value and meaning?
And then how can I just operatefrom that little bit of clarity
and understanding and um allowpeople around me to kind of
(22:28):
embrace that and understand thatand and grow along with me?
SPEAKER_04 (22:31):
So how did you how did you even get to that way of
operating?
Because that that can't be anatural thing.
That just happens.
SPEAKER_07 (22:39):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I for some probably it is.
I think for for me, um, it'spracticing just humility and
being okay with like exposinghumility to people around me.
That's it, that takes a certainamount of vulnerability, I
think, which um I'm historicallynot great at.
So that was a an area of growththat like pushed me a bit.
How do you be vulnerable withpeople that um you're charged
(23:01):
with sort of you know beingresponsible for?
Um, that's a challenge.
Um, but I think if you can ifyou can approach that with with
humility, uh it gets you a longway.
One other thing I'll say aboutcuriosity is that um I think
people also um are very dialedinto fake curiosity.
Um, I think it's really you haveto be really careful to to be
(23:21):
genuine when you're curious.
Um, it's really easy tosometimes try to lead someone to
something through sort of thislike disingenuous curiosity.
Um, and so I think it's reallyimportant to check yourself and
make sure that as you'renavigating that space, um, your
curiosity comes from like a anhonest place.
(23:41):
And that starts with umrecognizing that you don't
always have all the answers, andthat's okay.
SPEAKER_04 (23:48):
I love that.
Um on vulnerability, um Leanne,as a photographer and a creative
and a person, talk to me aboutvulnerability and showing up
fully um and and when yourecognize that as like a must.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Yeah, well, I will say doing portraiture
vulnerability is like theperfect way to level the playing
field between you and yoursubject.
And so it's for me, it's a greatanalogy.
It's a way for me to reallypractice vulnerability,
authentic vulnerability, thissense of like, ooh, like how are
you checking in, how are you?
Um but even uh what was I gonnasay?
(24:32):
Vulnerability, hold on, thankyou, sorry.
Oh, okay.
No, this is good.
Um I'm so nervous.
Um shake it off, shake it off.
No, thank you.
Oh my god.
Okay, so the thing about beingvulnerable, right?
Like vulnerability has a bad rapbecause really it it means that
(24:54):
you're you're easily hurt.
Uh and and I think that's onlypart of what I would consider
the definition or thepossibility.
If you're vulnerable and you'reeasily sensitive and you're
easily someone who's prone to,you know, negative emotions or
negative reactions to something,that also means that you're also
prone to extreme highs inemotions and excitement and awe
(25:17):
and curiosity.
And I think being vulnerablemeans that you can be both of
those things and you can tapinto other people's empathy in a
way that like allows for thatauthentic vulnerability to
actually be helpful.
Like, oh, I I can see why whyyou might be nervous.
Well, don't worry, I've got you.
(25:38):
And and so I don't know, I Ithink um really just shedding
shame away from that word is areally important uh practice for
creatives because oursensitivity is what makes us so
good at picking out what is thecreative thing we should do, how
we problem solve, how we how wethink critically about the
(26:00):
world.
And so, yeah, it's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's also something we're gonnahave to learn over and over and
over and over again.
So you're not gonna get it rightevery time.
Don't beat yourself up about it.
That's why they call it thecreative process.
And um, yeah, it's it's gonna belifelong.
And how exciting is that?
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
Well, and with and with growth and vulnerability
comes pains.
So you know, every single one ofus in this room is kind of on
our own unique path.
Um and it's really, really easyto get lost.
Um Hannah.
How do you recognize when you'vedrifted?
(26:42):
Uh and then how do you kind ofpull things back into focus?
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
I uh have been struggling with this question
because I am a drifter.
Uh like by nature, I am like,well, that aligns with
creativity, so let's go.
Um and Leanne and I were talkingabout this behind the curtain of
like we say yes to opportunity,and we've known each other for
quite some time.
So if the opportunity presentsitself there and we can figure
(27:09):
out a way where there's a will,there's a way, that is what
we'll do.
Um, but I would say the thedrift is more on the team, um, I
would say, or like the peoplebehind the work, because we are
supporting so many creativepeople.
And yes, not every project isawesome for every artist, but
there are certain times wherethe people who are working
(27:31):
street parties are working24-hour two-day work weeks, but
then an entire work week on topof it.
And does that really work forthem?
Um, and then they're supposed togo do something completely
different the next day.
So I would say the mission drifthasn't really happened.
I would say it's solidifieditself stronger than ever in
this last year.
But the ability to keep asustainable running operation in
(27:55):
West Michigan that does do a lotwith creatives who are
advocates, sometimes for thingsthat people don't want other
people to advocate for.
So, so really being able to leanin and be vulnerable and say no
when it is just not gonna workout, and yes, when it's gonna
work.
(28:15):
So a lot of the last year hasbeen taking the things that
haven't worked and saying, well,did this not work because it
financially didn't work?
Or did it not work because thecommunity didn't like it?
If it was because it'sfinancially not working, well,
then that's a different decisionto talk about.
If it's because the communitydidn't want it, then that is
where our focus needs to bebecause that's the advocacy work
(28:36):
that Lions and Rabbits needs tobe working in this next year.
So a lot of the work that we dois pushing the needle forward.
Discovery work is what we callit.
Um, but it's so that creativescan then have their platform.
And we didn't used to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (28:51):
Bailey, talk to me about the little wins.
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
Yeah, I was thinking a lot about that question last
night.
And I think um uh one of thegreat things about uh doing
Transfigure and uh being able togive so much is seeing how that
is received.
Um and I think um little winsfor that means you know, working
at the the store and seeing um,you know, kids come in.
(29:19):
Sometimes they come in withtheir parents, sometimes they
wander in on their own.
We're right down the road fromthe high school.
So there's a yeah, there's a lotof kids that come in and um just
to see, you know, how happy itmakes them to see the stuff that
we have in the store that youcan't, you know, really find
many other places in GrandRapids and uh yeah, to see just
like the happiness it bringsthem.
(29:40):
I think that's um something thatreally keeps me going through
the days where I am like, whatthis is this is a lot.
Um but uh so yeah, that I meanwe see that a lot at events too,
like Pride events.
Um a lot of kids walk up to usand just tell us how happy they
are to be there and see ourstuff and um yeah, some bigger
(30:00):
ones.
I mean, yeah, like I mentionedthe transfused market.
I think um what was really clearto me after that was um we need
stuff like that in Grand Rapids.
And um I think hearing so muchfrom not only the vendors um but
just people that came as well,just like really appreciated
what we were able to do and thespace we were able to provide.
(30:23):
Um, I mean, I I I I love all ofthat.
I love all of that feedback andum it yeah, just like stuff like
that, I think really keeps megoing.
And um yeah, just I appreciateall of the the positive, um
mostly always positive stuffthat I get from from doing
Transfakure.
SPEAKER_04 (30:42):
What about everybody else?
Little wins?
Any thoughts?
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh as a creative person thatgoes into a lot of rooms with uh
some top dogs, uh being able tounderstand the lay of the land
is really important, I think.
And so a little wind to me is Ijust was with one of the major
grocery stores in Detroittalking to them about the food
(31:09):
desert, talking to them aboutwhere other grocery stores will
not put stores, talking aboutheated sidewalks from
refrigeration stations, and theyare now in conversation with
that neighborhood about puttinga grocery store in there.
So it's it's really the arts areI mean, that's and the reason
we're working on this project isthrough the American Cancer
Society.
So if you're in a meeting andthen in a meeting and in a
(31:31):
meeting, that's seven differentcreatives that can be impacted.
SPEAKER_04 (31:33):
So love that.
You guys got anything or or ordid I break you?
SPEAKER_02 (31:40):
No, I think I mean sometimes all we have is little
wins.
I mean, you're not always gonnaget a big win.
And I think it's easy for us,because we are very critical
about what we do and we have tobe, um, to kind of forget to pat
ourselves on the back.
So yeah, embrace the littlewins.
It's it's okay.
SPEAKER_07 (31:59):
Yeah, I I will echo that 100%, Leanne, because I
think that um it's like a hugepart of growing is reflecting.
You know, like if you don't everstep back and reflect, then it's
kind of sometimes, at least forme, it's it's hard to like
observe growth happening inmyself.
Um and sometimes, yeah, all youhave are are little wins.
(32:20):
But, you know, taken taken overtime and accumulation of those
things, you can really start toall of a sudden understand, oh,
that's the path.
That's trickery, that's that'sgrowth.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:31):
I got I've got one more note on that because it
reminded me, which is myfavorite analogy, and I think
you guys will appreciate it.
And it's like when you'reworking on something, you're
looking at the details, right?
Like you're you're this like ifit's a painting, you're this
close to the canvas.
And sometimes it's really hardif we haven't trained ourselves
to like put the brush down, takea step back from the doorway and
(32:52):
look at it as a whole.
And if you don't know how to dothat and you can't remember to
do it, bring somebody in theroom, right?
Like this is why community in somany ways matters, friends that
you can trust, people that knowhow hard you were working on
those little details, becausethey're gonna be able to step
back, see the whole thing.
And maybe they'll give you someinsight that you just couldn't
(33:16):
see in your current moment.
And especially if you're afreelancer, you don't always get
that feedback.
So you need to seek it out andconsider it a uh uh a strength
to be able to say, like, I need,I would love your input.
So your community matters, thepeople you include in your life
matter, and if they know youwell, then they're going to
(33:39):
advocate for your growth.
SPEAKER_04 (33:42):
So one more.
Before we wrap things up, what'swhat's one thing that each of
you want to leave these lovelypeople with?
I said it.
SPEAKER_03 (33:58):
Um I think something that's been really prevalent for
me this year um is to justreally take your time.
I think with growthspecifically, it's um it's hard
to not always be looking forwhat what what's the next step,
you know, how to climb theladder, how to make the most
money, how to progress yourbusiness, how to do all these
(34:19):
things.
And it's easy to do that superquick.
And I think I've reached a pointthis year where I'm just like,
wow, like look at all this stuffI did, um, look at all the stuff
I'm doing, like, am I stillenjoying it?
Like, have I ever taken a stepback and really looked at it?
No, because I've been tooobsessed with trying to get to
the next whatever's next, youknow.
Um, I literally I didn't eventhink about it till this
(34:40):
morning.
I was like looking at my hands,I was like, I literally have it
tattooed on my hands.
It literally says, take time,grow slow.
And I'm like, I'm not, I need tofollow that.
I'm not doing that.
I need to actually do that, youknow?
Um so yeah, I guess I would saydefinitely take your time.
It's okay to grow slow.
You don't always have to move ata fast pace.
That's what that's what theywant you to do, but you don't
have to do that.
(35:01):
Um and so yeah, that's that'swhat I would leave people with.
SPEAKER_04 (35:04):
You have any you have any tricks to like course
correct?
You just lean into the skid.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
Yeah, just like yeah, just tattoo it on you and
then look at it occasionally, Iguess.
SPEAKER_04 (35:21):
Anna, Ian, you guys got anything?
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Um I will say I would like to leave everyone
with hope.
Um, but bipartisan relationshipsare crucial right now.
I think that that is the biggestthing that we need to work on uh
because nothing is going to getsolved on one or two or three
sides of whatever party.
Um and so if we cancollectively, as Grand Rapids
(35:47):
creatives, redefine what webelieve arts and culture means
and then ping it up to thestate, then maybe we'll start to
see the state of Michiganworking together and creatives
being able to thrive throughoutthe entire state.
SPEAKER_07 (36:04):
Um I think those are those are great answers.
I think for me, um the thingthat I would probably leave
folks with is this idea that umclarity is is actually
relatively rare.
And that's something that I feellike I was disenfranchised about
for a long time.
I I operated for a long timethinking that you know my own
(36:24):
lack of clarity or uncertaintywas something with my own growth
pattern.
And I think the truth is thatit's actually more often than
not that we we navigate thingsfrom a place of uncertainty and
lack of clarity.
And um I think that's okay.
I think we can still navigatethe world um in a way that is uh
(36:47):
intentional and directed.
It's a little bit like using acompass instead of GPS, which
might be an absolute, you know,a compass is a tool that we have
in the moments of uncertaintywhere we have to sort of
navigate the world of thingsbased on what we have right in
front of us.
And um, I think understandingthat you can do that if you have
(37:08):
just enough understanding ofyour own values and what's
important to you.
And then the other thing I wouldsay is that growth is a team
sport and it takes people aroundus, like kind of like you you
were talking about, Leanne andHannah, you're talking about um
and Bailey too.
Um we need people around us tohelp us both identify moments of
(37:29):
growth for us, but also to helpus measure our own growth.
And then I think we have to alsopay attention to the the team
members that are internal to usto help us understand how our
rhythm needs to change atcertain points in order to
actually grow and actually ummake those little changes, like
you talked about, that becomethe little disciplines that help
(37:52):
us take those steps forward thatall of a sudden when we reflect
and look back, we see uh thatwas the path.
SPEAKER_04 (37:58):
So that's great.
This has been super fun for meto sit up here with with you
guys who you know I love andrespect most of you.
And um but that's gonna do itfor us.
Um give your panel claffordthem.
SPEAKER_01 (38:29):
Bad idea social club is an independent podcast made
possible by donations, merchsales, and reviews.
SPEAKER_05 (38:34):
Graphic designer Aaron McCullough is our host,
music editor, and writer,co-hosts of Amber Gray and me,
Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Music by Mike Mains and the branches.
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