May 19, 2026 • 38 mins
Mark Stein (artist, illustrator) joins Aaron McCall to talk about what it takes to go all in on your work and the cost of pushing too hard. He gets into growing up on cartoons, punk and skate culture, the wake-up calls that changed everything, and why being a lone wolf will only get you so far. They talk about finding creative community, imposter syndrome, getting out from behind your desk, and why if it’s not hard, you’re probably not trying hard enough. This is a conversation about the slow build, the kind that takes until your late 30s to really catch fire, and the kind of stubbornness it takes to keep it burning.
Keep up with Mark Stein:
steinbydesign.com
IG: @steinbydesign
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This episode is supported by:
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Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
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Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
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Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Being a creative is your whole life.
It's your whole life.
Everything I try to do, I try tobe creative with without
sounding like a dick, you knowwhat I mean?
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad I.
Hey, do you want to do this one?
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Yeah, I do want to do this one.
Yeah, go ahead.
Hey everybody, welcome back toBad Idea Social Club.
I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
And I'm Aaron McCall.
Um, we we were planning onkeeping this season like uh
pretty local, you know, at leastlike at least Michigan, because
this is kind of our first outingfor uh uh video, and like it's
really just kind of a thing thatlike I need to learn this
process, so I want to do it asmuch in person as I possibly
can.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah, simplify the areas that we can simplify.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Yeah, and then uh Mark Stein fucked everything up
in the best way possible.
Yeah, so so Mark's anillustrator and graphic
designer, and there was justsomething about his work that
just like wouldn't leave mealone, like it just wouldn't get
out of my head.
Um, and it and and it it remindsme of my childhood, uh, but in a
(01:58):
more um aggressive andexpressive way.
Um like a like in a punk rock90s cartoon kind of way, but
like like the cartoons that werelike not made for kids, but like
they were just shown to us likeit was, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
That's my favorite shit.
Yeah, that that was my shit.
So I love that.
That that still shows up in mylife nowadays.
It's like why I loveover-detailed, complicated
illustration is because of likelike Renin Stimpy, which first
100% was not for kids.
No, it was disgusting.
SPEAKER_03 (02:31):
We uh uh we talk about that too, but um Mark
piped in from Gold CoastAustralia, our our first
international guest, and wetalked about uh growing up with
that kind of visual language andlike how it just sticks to you,
and um, you know, how it turnsout to evolve into something
ownable and that is just yours.
(02:53):
Um we got into developing astyle, uh, where you decide to
just leave something alone, um,and also and also pushing
yourself too far, like the thethe burnout, um losing the spark
and figuring out how to how tokeep showing up without just
running yourself into theground.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
I think we grew up in a time where subtlety was not
a thing when it comes to likeartwork and design, like
everything was very like just inyour face and loud and bright
and moving, and and I think thatthat says a lot about like what
I need to have somethingcommunicated nowadays is like
(03:33):
subtlety is hard for me.
Do you find it hard?
Do you struggle with that atall?
SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Um, you know, I actually I think as a designer,
uh I I try to lean moreminimalist most of the time.
And I think I think what I youknow, I think I've I've been
doing it for so long.
Uh I'm in this phase now whereI'm trying to go the other way.
Cool.
And trying to be less subtle andto get more like loud and and
(03:58):
fucky, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
I dig that.
I love that.
It seems to me that the time youget most excited about your work
is when it almost directly linksitself to the stuff you used to
love.
So like the like the stuff youdo for like our brewery and like
all of the stuff that like justgoes back into your childhood.
Like, that's the shit.
SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Well, dude, it's funny, it's funny you mention
our brewing because like we weyou know they're they're big
masters of the universe, guys,right?
And like I could not be morefucking stoked about this movie
that's coming out.
This is not a plug, this is nota thing.
Like, we're not big enough forpeople to pay me for that, but
I'm so fucking stoked.
We're going.
Yeah, I'm dressing up.
We're gonna be going.
(04:37):
Ooh, or are we dressing down?
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm gonna look good either way,damn it.
Yeah, we're going.
I'm super stoked about it too.
Yeah, I also feel that when Ican link my work back to the
things that I used to love,that's when it's like I know I'm
doing it right.
Is at the end of the day, asartists, if we're not tapping
(05:01):
into what we think is reallycool and interesting and what
has influenced us over theyears, like what are we?
You could Google search.
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Yeah, that's got to be the first like filter, right?
Like, do I like this?
And you know, like early in mycareer too, like I was I spent
so much time just likefloundering trying to make what
I thought people wanted.
Because I mean, I mean, if we'rebeing honest, I was in an
environment where that was thenorm that was encouraged, and
(05:29):
that sucks, and then I got thefuck out of there.
Yeah, it took me like fiveyears, but I got the fuck out of
there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But man, like I am, I am in aspot now where like I there is
no way that I'm gonna bringsomething to the table that I am
not in love with.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
That's a great spot to be in.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
But then also the payoff is that like, you know,
it's the vulnerability, and likeI might get my heart broken, but
I also might fight you about it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Yeah, that's right.
Which you love to do anyways.
I do.
You love getting in the ring.
SPEAKER_03 (06:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
You know what's interesting, and you've just
made me realize this, is early,early on when I started
shooting, I was literally justshooting for myself.
And I found people gravitatetowards that and they like
appreciated my work because ofthat.
I don't, I can't think of adefining moment, but there was a
moment when I started likegetting in my head and thinking,
like, well, what do I need to beshooting for other people?
And I felt, I felt like a pullaway from my work from people.
(06:24):
Like I felt like I was reachingless people.
And now over the course of thelast, I don't know, I don't even
know how long, but like fiveyears or so, I'm fully tapped
into what I think is cool andloving the work I'm doing.
And I'm watching our businesslike I'm really watching our
business grow because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Dude, it's I mean, I've said this, I've said this a
thousand times, but it's likepeople can smell the bullshit,
you know?
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Well, before we dive in, don't forget to follow
wherever you're listening, leavea five-star review, and don't
forget to tell your friends.
SPEAKER_03 (06:53):
Also, uh, this thing runs off of merch sales and
listener support and reviews.
Um, go do all that stuff.
We'll love you forever for it.
Um, and here's my uh here's myconversation with Mark Stein,
Stein by Design.
Dude, I've I've never been asunsure and uncomfortable about
(07:15):
maybe anything in my life as Iwas about making sure that like
I got the time conversion right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Yeah, I checked this line.
I thought uh I think it's 11o'clock, and then I'd because my
partner's American and I'msorry, my wife's American, and
she's like checked through yourtime schedule, and I'm like, I
think it's 10 o'clock, and thenyou sent that email through.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:38):
Yeah, I would dude, I was sitting there and I was
like, wait a minute, we just hada time change.
I bet you that biffed everythingup.
Had to have.
Nah, it's all good.
Had to have, but yeah, man, likeI said, like I I uh I don't know
anything about you.
You're you're so like any anydetails about you are so sparse
on the internet, man.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Yeah, I'm a bit of a phantom.
I'm trying to get more obviouslyonline more, but um yeah, I
didn't start posting my artworktill probably properly until
like five years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (08:11):
Yeah, really?
Yeah, it's been really good, butwhat was what was the push to
kind of put it out there?
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Oh, just basically, yeah, like I'm 41, turning 42
this year, and just life's tooshort.
And yeah, working an older jobback then, and it kind of
changed my perception on things.
So I had the cliche thing, like,you know, I'm driving to work.
I always had artwork since I wasa kid.
Like I've started when I wasseven years old, and it's always
(08:38):
been my happy place with what Ido.
And yeah, always had on the backburner doing jobs here and there
for people, and then yeah,driving to work one day, and I
literally got that universalpush from a truck, and yeah,
totally totally right off mycar, and then I was like, ah,
this is the the epiphany moment,and yeah, just started pushing
(08:59):
it and um connecting becauseI've always been a lone wolf as
most creatives are, andconnected with some community,
which was really good for me andto boost my confidence, and
yeah, just started putting itout slowly, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
What what is the uh creative community like in
Australia?
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Oh, it's huge, it's awesome.
Yeah, like my like I've got uh aDiscord group with like one of
designers and artists and stuff,and it's probably about 10 of
us, and we're called the FlamingGulars, which is really funny,
and yeah, we just send throughum ideas, pricing, but just
boost each other up, which isawesome.
And I never had that because Iwas always like, Man, I'm the
(09:38):
only one that does this stuff,like that's what most creatives
think, and then you likediscover new people, and you're
like, fuck, there's actuallymore people out here like this,
and it's like you know, when youget that spark of knowledge,
you're like, Oh shit, yeah, wecan help and push off each other
and whatever.
So, yeah, it's basically yeah,I'm like I'm three quarters
(10:00):
part-time artist, and then I'vegot a two-day day job just to
get away.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
I was just gonna say, what does that mean?
What does that mean that you'rea part-time artist?
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
So basically, two days a week I have another job,
and then this year I'm gonna tryand convert to go full-time, but
just learning my way again.
So, but it's awesome.
Like, I've had really goodfeedback about my work and um
opportunities of lately, whichhas been great.
So it's like, well, you know, ifanyone else can do it, I can do
it, but I just gotta grindharder.
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
So and you're like you're like pulling in some
attention from like some prettyserious clients, right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Lately, yeah.
I've actually been really blownaway.
I'm like, what?
And I got a message, like I dida job, I probably can't mention
it just yet.
Um, but yeah, it's from a bandthat I've grown up with, and I
was like, wow, okay, cool.
And that was just a DM, and Iwas like, fuck, that's unreal.
Like that, I can't fathom it atthe time.
Yeah.
(10:55):
So then I actually yeah, did it,completed it, was all good.
And then I sit back when Ifinish, and I'm like, wow, if I
could tell my 14-year-old selfthat, that's really, really
cool.
SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Yeah, he's never gonna believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
No, he'd be so stoked.
And um, yeah, so just keepplugging, but it's all about a
balance.
Like, obviously, a few years agowhen I got into it, I was like,
I'm gonna do this.
So I was like getting up at fouro'clock and I was like, I'm
gonna draw, I'm gonna draw, I'mgonna draw.
And there's that balance ofburnout.
Yeah, and I actually yeah, Iburnt myself out that bad.
(11:28):
I ended up in hospital.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
And yeah, I had this little thing called
atrofibulation, it's like in aregular heartbeat.
Like I'm a healthy guy, butbecause I was drawing and
putting my life on the line,basically.
And yeah, so after that Ilearned that balance of yeah,
know the know the um warningsigns before they kick in if
you're going too hard.
And it's just little things likewhen you're drawing, you you get
(11:55):
stuck in, you know, you don'thydrate properly, or you don't,
you know, you just want to keepgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:00):
Yeah, or you're only sleeping till 3 a.m.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
and well, I used to I've worked like yeah, all
different shifts over my lifeand done night like nights,
afternoons, mornings, but nowI'm back to mornings, which is
cool.
But yeah, I used to love gettingup and I used to live in the
high rise near the ocean and Iused to have a coffee and like
watch the sunrise and then kickright in, which was great.
But then yeah, I'd get to like11 o'clock and like I have no
(12:23):
breakfast.
And then you know, it all stemsfrom there.
So yeah, keeping your yeah,keeping your daily routine
really helps, which is cool.
SPEAKER_03 (12:33):
I feel like you kind of gotta be bitch slapped a
little bit to kind of be like, Imean, well I guess you were
because you stressed yourselfout so fucking hard you went to
the hospital.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Yeah, and that's the only way I learned.
So, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (12:47):
So let's go back a little bit.
I want to know about your originstory, um, because I think every
kid draws, right?
Um but you know, some of uscan't let it go for uh for for
better or worse.
You know, some of us are justare just wired for it.
So what uh what what do youthink kept you in from you know
(13:08):
starting to draw at seven yearsold to 41?
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Jeez, I think um so basically obviously every kid
watches cartoons, and that'swhere my love started.
So I used to watch like Red andthe Stimpy, Mo Rocco's Modern
Life, and that just was likefuck, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (13:25):
Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
And then I'm like 41, so I'm pre-internet age.
So I used to like tape cartoonson VHS.
This is this is a spin out, andthen I'd pause it, and then I'd
draw because we didn't haveYouTube or tutorials or
anything.
So I used to pause it and thendraw expressions on faces, and
that love was like from there,and then like I'd buy magazines
(13:48):
and then I'd draw from that.
Basically, it was just always inthe back of my mind.
I always did it.
Uh, I did it through highschool.
I was that typical non-jock guythat always used to draw.
Like, I'd get along witheveryone, and I used to have
parties in my place, andeveryone would be say watching
football, and I'd be up the backdrawing.
(14:08):
That's just my where I feltcomfortable.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
I love that, dude.
You're my people, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I can tell it's awesome.
Um so yeah, I did that throughhigh school.
Um, a lot of people can see liketattoo references in my work,
and they're like, Why don't yoube a tattooist?
And I was like, uh, and Istarted working at like 18.
I was like, oh no, it's just notmy thing, and I didn't resonate
with it.
Um, nothing against tattoo atall.
SPEAKER_03 (14:33):
But dude, tattooing somebody, the idea of tattooing
somebody scares the shit out ofme.
Yeah that's like that's likehigh stakes stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Yeah, you know, and like I know my hand, like she's
gonna it's it's weird stuff isgonna happen, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Skin is different to paper.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, so basically drewthroughout high school, just
loved it.
Um did like two up, like I'mself-taught, I've never been
like trained or anything likethat, and that's just the love
of it and the passion of sinceI've been a kid.
In high school, I took like twoclasses where it was like main
art, which I found really, youknow, boring.
(15:11):
And there's another thing calledlike design and action, which
was like just do your thing andjust draw whatever.
And then I'd get to a pointwhere I wasn't doing it in
class, but I'd love doing it athome, and then I'd bring my
stuff in from at home and I'dget marked like that.
Because that was my comfy.
Um, yeah, so yeah, didn't drawfor 10 years, started drumming,
(15:31):
loved that.
Um, and then slowly got backinto drawing, and then yeah,
probably what am I now, 41,probably 36.
I was like, nah, like you'vebeen doing it all your life.
It's like a fire starts whenyou're a little kid, yeah.
And you find that spark and nowrealize to keep that fire
(15:54):
burning, and it's repetition.
Like you've gotta every day kindof do something to an extent.
And yeah, basically, if I don'tdo something every day, I feel
like that that fire is kind ofgoing like you kind of feel like
you're falling behind a littlebit, or uh, or like uh you're
kind of being snuffed out, yeah.
(16:16):
But I don't know, just like as Isaid, connecting with other
artists has really helped me alot.
And yeah, just like you know,learning how they struggle with
things, and it's like a lotsimilar to me, and it's like you
know, we're all human at the endof the day, but I still like
drawing so long, I still finddrawing hard, if that makes
(16:39):
sense.
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
Because I always do it, it makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
Yeah.
Because like I never sit thereand go, I'm an artist.
I never I never sit there andsay that because I'm always
wanting to learn.
And if I don't find it difficultto do, it means that I'm not
trying to, I'm not doing mybest, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
Yeah, yeah, you're not pushing yourself enough.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So like if I've you know, we allhave those.
So we have a client come alongand we go, they give us our
ideas and we go, yeah, yeah,yeah, cool.
And then we sit down on the dayand we're like pumped, and
there's that first 30 minuteswhere you're like, fuck, you
know, what are you gonna do withit?
And I think about I think aboutprojects two days before I go
(17:20):
in.
So I just think about it, andthat's just how my brain works.
And then yeah, I sit down,there's that half an hour of
like, you know, what am I gonnado?
And then as soon as you startdrawing for like five minutes,
you're like, oh yeah, cool.
And it all starts, yeah, yeah.
Um, so basically, yeah, art hasalways been in my bones ever
since I was a kid, and like Ilove it, like it's just a world,
(17:43):
you know, it's that typicalsaying, a world without art, art
is just uh, you know.
Yeah, and it goes for likeeverything.
Like, um, you know, if you'reinto instruments or you're into
pottery or into gardening, Ithink being creative is awesome
for your mind, like it is.
Yeah, it really is.
And yeah, everyone should justpick up some form of being
(18:06):
creative, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (18:08):
Talk to me a little bit about some more of the uh uh
earlier influences, right?
Like, I mean you talked aboutRen and Stimpy and you know
magazines and stuff, but there'sa very clear uh uh punk and
skate kind of culture influence,right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Alright, cool.
So basically, um born in the80s, grew up in the 90s, um, and
started skateboarding at the ageof I'd say 13 and heavily into
skateboarding.
So I'd skateboard for like sixhours a day, every day.
And I was pushing to getsponsored, and I loved it, like
(18:45):
absolutely loved it.
And I think that scene and Istumbled across skateboard
graphics, and that just meldedawesomely.
And I used to source like coolum skateboard brands, shirts
from America that had wickedgraphics, and I was like, Yeah,
cool, I want that.
So that inspired me.
Um started getting into punkmusic when I was 12, and like my
(19:10):
first ever gig that I ever beento in my life was Mel and Collin
when I was like 13.
SPEAKER_03 (19:15):
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
And that was, you know, I got the ball rolling,
and then um, so yeah, skate uhskating and punk music goes hand
in hand with my style.
And then I think when I starteddrumming a bit later, I got into
more heavier stuff because Iliked like double kicks and all
that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (19:33):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
And some bit of a like I chop between metal and
then I go back to punk and thenI go through like weeks later.
Um, but yeah, skateboarding andpunk music, you probably hear it
from everyone that's into it.
It's like it's art, it's allit's all connected.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
Something I love about like punk and skate
culture and stuff is that likeit doesn't really ask for
permission for anything.
And um, as an outsider lookingat your work, like it's it
screams that man.
It's so um, I don't know, likelike your work is so free and
like kind of fucked up in thecoolest ways.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
I like that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
Uh so like at this point in your career, like what
do you what do you are youtrying to say anything with your
work?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Um I try to like, you know, obviously with artists
as like light and dark and allthat kind of thing, but I don't
really get too far into it.
I just like to make cool shitand have fun with it and
basically have a bit of fun inmy work if you can see it.
Like, you know, say it's a skullor whatever, like it could be
dark.
Most people see that, but I liketo have a bit of fun with it,
(20:39):
you know what I mean?
Yeah, and I think that's wherewatching cartoons come into
play.
So like I'm trying to learn moreum stylization in my work, and
that's really difficult to do,like things that are tweaked and
things that are warped, and itjust adds more character.
But yeah, so basically, youknow, if you look at my artwork
(20:59):
and you like it or appreciateit, it's cool, but more fun,
like more more spirit, morechildlike spirit.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:07):
Yeah, what do you what do you hope people get out
of it?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
Basically, I've been really thinking about changing
to go to mural work.
That's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Yeah, that's a scary jump.
Oh, I'm keen for it.
Um, to navigate it, I'mlearning.
So basically, I just want to bediverse.
I don't want to be stuck on ascreen.
I don't.
Yeah.
And you know, working on youknow, working on screens for
hours, it just fries your brain.
So basically, um, I don't knowif you've seen some of the other
(21:40):
stuff I've been doing, which islike um wood cutouts and stuff.
Yeah.
And I thought that's really fun.
So that's another thing I cando.
Um, physical artwork, which isfun because you can do digital
stuff, print it, but handmadeoriginals is really, really
cool.
And I spend like yeah, a fewweeks on those, like per thing.
(22:03):
That thing behind me that tookme like on and off about two and
a half weeks.
SPEAKER_03 (22:09):
Dude, honestly, I thought you were gonna stay
longer.
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
I'd say that's pretty, pretty um generous two
and a half weeks, but that's atwo layer, so I had to cut out
all the little pieces by handwith a jigsaw.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
No shit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Yeah, so and I was new, like, because I wanted that
like 3D dimension, and I thinkdoing stuff like that has
actually got me interested inlike art installations as well
and making like 3D kind ofpieces.
But yeah, so basically, withoutrambling, I want to like Have
multiple things I can do, butyeah, I think murals are really,
really, really cool.
I did one about two years ago tomake screenshot uh screen
(22:46):
printing plays, and yeah, it wasso much fun.
It took me like 60 hours to dobecause it was like eight meters
by six meters.
SPEAKER_03 (22:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
And he's into like chopper bikes and like uh
reapers and stuff, so I did abig one across his wall.
And yeah, it was an awesomelearning curve.
I did one when I was younger,um, was all like yeah, in my
bedroom and like making it alllike sofa kind of stuff.
But yeah, I don't know.
I got really inspired about bigpieces of artwork, and that's
where I'd like to take it.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
So I I signed on to do a uh to do a mural last
summer, and I dude, I put it offand I put it off because I like
I got I got scared, I think.
You know, like I got uh I gotintimidated and it got the best
of me.
Like I backed out like a fuckingcoward.
Um, you know, try to clean upwhatever reason, you know, that
(23:37):
is not my fault for why I didn'tdo it.
But uh do you do you ever get uhdo you ever get intimidated by
anything you you see kind ofcoming down the way?
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
Oh like imposter syndrome, it always kicks in,
man.
Like it always kicks in, andyou're sitting there and you're
like, uh, I want to do it.
And then you get a chance andyou're like, then I kind of rule
it out and I'm like, I have todo it.
Like, if it's gonna kill me, Ihave to do it.
So, but yeah, when I tackledthat wall, I was like, you know,
Matt's really, really cool.
(24:07):
So we had a great relationshipand I walked in there, and then
when it actually came time to doit, I was like, oh, okay, this
is pretty big.
SPEAKER_03 (24:14):
You're like, oh, it's a big wall.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
And you know, I I can't work in there till like 1
a.m.
tunes cranking and stuff likethat, but just learning, like as
soon as you get over that firstfive minutes, then you kind of
just start you start working andyou have no time to think, you
just work, work, work, work.
But yeah, it's scary.
Like, like when I starteddrawing, I mean, doing like
(24:38):
clients' works and stuff likethat.
You just get to a point whereyou or when you start it, you're
like, I don't want to fuck itup.
I always want to do the bestthing I can for someone, even if
I work overtime, always, becauseI don't want to put out work
that I'm not completely proudof.
SPEAKER_03 (24:55):
You can't.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
No, you can't.
And there are times you can'tget it perfect, but you can go
to sleep and not saying that'sthe best that I can do, and
that's that's all you can do.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Your identity and um and your and your thoughts and
the thing that you're thatyou're making kind of get all
tangled together.
So like what's that what's thatrelationship like for you?
Like, is there a line betweenyou know Mark as a Mark as a
person, Mark as a as a creative?
SPEAKER_01 (25:25):
Well, yeah, everyone's their own being and
what they do on differentthings, but being a creative is
your whole life.
It's your whole life.
Like I everything I try to do, Itry to be creative with without
sounding like a dick, you knowwhat I mean?
But yeah.
Without being like, yeah, I'mfine, but yeah.
(25:45):
Um basically just be yourselfand do what you do what you do
and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
So so then outside of the construct too of uh of
normal designer clientrelationships or you or you're
making something for yourselfafter work hours, like how how
are you using that creativeenergy?
Like what do you what gets it?
Who gets it?
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
It's a balance, like you gotta have you know, time
for your you know, your family,your life, and your art.
If I've got a job on, then I'm100% in on that job until it's
like okay, I gotta have dinnerand then you know that's it for
the day.
And then when that job finishes,and then I have say like a
little bit of time in betweenthe next job, that's when I'm
(26:28):
thinking personal projects.
And I think personal projectsare very, very good for yourself
because then you're not stuckdoing job, job, job, job, job,
and you have no creative freedomfor yourself.
So yeah, and then it's just abalance with everything like go
to bed early, because I thinknothing after 9 30, 10 o'clock
(26:50):
is gonna work out, so you justgo to sleep.
Yeah, it's really like my wife,like my wife, she's very
structured and routinely, so shealways she gets me into gear,
which I need, so it's nice.
SPEAKER_03 (27:02):
Dude, I love that.
Um speaking of balance though,um, how are you achieving
balance?
Like, because you know, like youjust said, like at 9 30, 10
o'clock, shut it down, whatever,but like that's not always easy
to do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
You just have to wind down, and like obviously,
if I'm in bed, yeah.
You think Tell me your secrets.
How do you get out of it?
That's what I need.
Eat a big dinner.
unknown (27:27):
Yeah, done.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
Eat a big dinner, get full, get get nappy, and go
to bed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Well, real quick, I should have asked.
Say your name so I know how tosay it correctly, so I don't
look like an asshole.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Like the German beer, Stein.
SPEAKER_03 (27:40):
Are you a beer guy?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, so if I'm gonna drink a beer, I'd be like
IPA kind of guy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:48):
Yeah, dude, same.
Yeah, same.
You do some like label work too,right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
Yeah, it's really cool.
I um been working, I've justfinished one that hasn't come
out, but it's uh a companycalled Shred in California.
It's a brewery, and yeah, I gota prize to do one a few months
back, and I was absolutelystoked because being an artist,
you always want to get on a beercan.
Yeah, it's just it's a tick.
SPEAKER_03 (28:11):
And yeah, it's it's one of the coolest things you
can do.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Yeah, definitely.
And yeah, so I did the firstone, and it's like yeah, real
skate graphic, kind of what's itcalled?
Gooseberry garden.
So I did like these kind ofcreepy vines and this like Abyss
kind of skull, yeah.
Real like blues and likefluorescent greens and stuff
like that.
So yeah, really stoked withthat.
(28:36):
Uh, I got a few friends that dobeer can work in Australia, and
yeah, in Australia, like beercan artists are huge.
Like, there's every breweryaround the corner in Australia
that just wants to keep makingcool art.
Um, so yeah, to like not evenwork in Australia breweries,
I've gone straight to America,which is I find that really,
really cool.
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
The next beer can is like 420 related.
Yeah, fuck yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:01):
Does it have anything extra in it?
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Son of a bitch.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
No, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
Oh man, dude, so where I live in uh Grand Rapids,
Michigan, like I think it's likeeight years or something like
that, maybe longer, uh, has beenrecognized as Beer City USA.
Uh we have like the mostbreweries per capita or
whatever.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know how we get thattitle, but there's a shit ton of
breweries.
Yeah.
(29:32):
Doing um art for beer has beenlike like like it's been a fun
thing for me.
Um so to kind of go back to whatwe were talking about earlier
about like uh finding thatcreative community.
There is actually a um there's aconference in Chicago called the
Bop Conference.
And like I've I've never reallymet other designers who like
(29:57):
make stuff for beer, you know?
But it's like when you walk in aroom and then and then there's
200 other beer designers inthere, dude.
That like sense of community isjust it's gnarly.
It's gnarly.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
You weren't sleep that night, your brain's just on
fire after talking.
SPEAKER_03 (30:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like uh, you know,you're kind of looking at what
everybody else is doing andtrying to be like not be weird
with it, you know?
Like uh, like here, let me tellyou this story.
So uh I went out there a coupleyears ago, and it was right uh
right after COVID, right?
So uh I got socially awkward andkind of weird for a few minutes
(30:37):
coming out of there, like Iforgot how to be, you know, and
uh and I was kind of textingwith my wife.
We were at this like mixer andstuff before the conference, and
I was like, I know these are mypeople, like I just gotta like,
you know, I gotta get my headout of my ass a little bit and
go go talk to somebody.
And and uh she's like, just gofind somebody, like just so you
know, go find somebody thatlooks cool, strike up a
(30:58):
conversation.
And dude, as far as I got waslike like this one dude's kind
of like walking toward me, and Istart to kind of and he just
keeps walking, and I'm like,fuck me, dude.
I'm out.
I just went back to the hotelroom.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yeah, it's hard, it's like you know, we just get
a neuron psyche kind of thing,and it's like we're all just the
same people, you know what we'redoing.
And then you like say you talkto someone like telly off topic,
you talk to someone that youadmire on it like Instagram, and
you're like, oh, but then likewe're all the same.
That's it.
SPEAKER_03 (31:32):
Yeah, dude, I love it.
Um Mark, is there anything elsewe should talk about before we
go tapic happin'?
SPEAKER_02 (31:39):
Can't think of anything at the moment.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
Alright, well then let's do it.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
I'll hope people would say that I'm easygoing and
laid back.
Um that I treated people withthe same amount of respect that
I'd want to be treated.
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
Um, finish the thought.
Creativity requires passion andpatience.
Expand on that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
Have the patience to learn your craft and have the
fire and the passion to keep itgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:13):
So good.
Um what what would your lastmeal be?
SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
Ooh.
Um probably like uh ribeye withlike mushroom sauce or
something.
SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
Yeah, fucking a right, dude.
Um what's the what's the best orthe worst advice that you've
ever received?
SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
It's just a hobby or it's a pipe dream.
SPEAKER_03 (32:38):
Oh dude, I could I would I could backhand somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (32:42):
Yeah.
You know, it will be if you'renot gonna push it.
Like it's just gonna be a fadeddream if you're not gonna push
it.
So if you want it, go get it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:53):
At some point the training wheels have to come
off, right?
So so when when did things getserious for you?
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Probably late 30s, to be honest.
Like that I actually was gonnabe like, yeah, I need to I need
to do this because it deepinside me was always I had the
purpose of doing artwork, but Ineed to do this for the rest,
like I want to do this for therest of my life, and I need to
(33:23):
pull my finger out.
So we all go through life, we docertain things, different roads
or whatever.
But then you're like, this iswhat I'm here for, like this is
why I want to do what I do, andyou know, that's in my mind
that's the only thing I'm halfdecent at.
So I need to do what I love,because that's what bring me
happiness at the end of the day.
(33:43):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:44):
Oh, that's the fucking best.
Um what would your walk-up songbe?
What's your walk-up song?
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Where am I walking into?
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
Fucking anywhere you want.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Yeah, probably that one.
SPEAKER_03 (34:03):
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Or if it's like a bigger thing like Black Dahlia
Murder or something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (34:09):
Oh, so you're like, you're not fucking around.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
I have different ranges, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:16):
Um Mark, what what makes you feel most like
yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (34:22):
Um, that's a tough question.
Feels like myself.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
When I give this would be like an art base
question, but when I givesomeone something that I've
created and seen it in theirface, and if they're super
stoked with that, then that'show I feel my best self.
SPEAKER_03 (34:43):
Dude, that that feeling doesn't get old.
It just doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
It gets better and better.
SPEAKER_03 (34:49):
But on the opposite side of that, that fucking
sucks.
I gifted my brother a printbecause he was he was really uh
instrumental in like encouragingme to like break off on my own
and and uh you know open up anonline shop and all that fun
stuff.
So as soon as like it was a realthing, like I I gifted him a you
(35:13):
know, I gifted him a print andum then he got uh then he got
divorced and I came over to helphim move.
And that son of a bitch, like hethe print was just stuffed under
his bed, just beat to dog shit.
So now I'm like now I'm all likeshy about like do I want to give
(35:35):
somebody artwork, do I want togift it, or am I being like
presumptuous like they give ashit?
SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
If it makes you feel good in the moment, that should
be all that matters, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (35:47):
My man, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (35:50):
Because whatever happens happens to it and you
got no control of it.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:53):
God, I love that.
Mark, do you have any regrets?
SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
No, probably starting uh uh earlier, and I
couldn't say I was seven yearsold, so I couldn't really start
it anywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (36:08):
No, no, I'd like to live a life of no regrets
because then that just taintsyou.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
Alright, I got I got one more question for you.
Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy.
I'm actually happy.
Yeah, it's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
Good man.
I love that.
Dude, thank you for doing this.
It was uh a freaking treat to uhcome out and hang out with you
for a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
No, it's absolutely pleasure, man.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
Yeah, uh before we go, where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
So I'm in the process of doing a new website,
so basically the easiest way toget and see my stuff will be
Instagram.
That would be the best way to doit at the moment.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Um yeah, so that's at Steinby Design, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah, at Steinby Design or Steinbydesign.art at
gmail.com would be my bestemail.
Um, so yeah, if you want toreach out, you want to get some
work done, hit me up.
I'm keen and let's createsomething cool together.
SPEAKER_03 (37:07):
Dude, I love it.
Thank you for doing this.
I really appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Thank you, man.
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
You go have a lovely afternoon.
I'm gonna go to bed.
unknown (37:18):
All right, man.
SPEAKER_03 (37:18):
It's almost lunchtime.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
It's almost lunchtime.
It's gonna have some lunch.
SPEAKER_03 (37:21):
Yeah, I love it, dude.
All right, man, let's get out ofhere.
SPEAKER_02 (37:23):
Uh thanks, man.
SPEAKER_04 (37:24):
Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my
head.
I can't even make them go away.
SPEAKER_03 (37:32):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Ed McCall, and
co-hosted by photographer GilMadison.
Music is noises by Mike makingthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you take your podcast.
Being a creative is your whole life.
It's your whole life.
Everything I try to do, I try tobe creative with without
sounding like a dick, you knowwhat I mean?
But yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (01:05):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad I.
Hey, do you want to do this one?
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
Yeah, I do want to do this one.
Yeah, go ahead.
Hey everybody, welcome back toBad Idea Social Club.
I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15):
And I'm Aaron McCall.
Um, we we were planning onkeeping this season like uh
pretty local, you know, at leastlike at least Michigan, because
this is kind of our first outingfor uh uh video, and like it's
really just kind of a thing thatlike I need to learn this
process, so I want to do it asmuch in person as I possibly
can.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
Yeah, simplify the areas that we can simplify.
SPEAKER_03 (01:37):
Yeah, and then uh Mark Stein fucked everything up
in the best way possible.
Yeah, so so Mark's anillustrator and graphic
designer, and there was justsomething about his work that
just like wouldn't leave mealone, like it just wouldn't get
out of my head.
Um, and it and and it it remindsme of my childhood, uh, but in a
(01:58):
more um aggressive andexpressive way.
Um like a like in a punk rock90s cartoon kind of way, but
like like the cartoons that werelike not made for kids, but like
they were just shown to us likeit was, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
That's my favorite shit.
Yeah, that that was my shit.
So I love that.
That that still shows up in mylife nowadays.
It's like why I loveover-detailed, complicated
illustration is because of likelike Renin Stimpy, which first
100% was not for kids.
No, it was disgusting.
SPEAKER_03 (02:31):
We uh uh we talk about that too, but um Mark
piped in from Gold CoastAustralia, our our first
international guest, and wetalked about uh growing up with
that kind of visual language andlike how it just sticks to you,
and um, you know, how it turnsout to evolve into something
ownable and that is just yours.
(02:53):
Um we got into developing astyle, uh, where you decide to
just leave something alone, um,and also and also pushing
yourself too far, like the thethe burnout, um losing the spark
and figuring out how to how tokeep showing up without just
running yourself into theground.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
I think we grew up in a time where subtlety was not
a thing when it comes to likeartwork and design, like
everything was very like just inyour face and loud and bright
and moving, and and I think thatthat says a lot about like what
I need to have somethingcommunicated nowadays is like
(03:33):
subtlety is hard for me.
Do you find it hard?
Do you struggle with that atall?
SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Um, you know, I actually I think as a designer,
uh I I try to lean moreminimalist most of the time.
And I think I think what I youknow, I think I've I've been
doing it for so long.
Uh I'm in this phase now whereI'm trying to go the other way.
Cool.
And trying to be less subtle andto get more like loud and and
(03:58):
fucky, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
I dig that.
I love that.
It seems to me that the time youget most excited about your work
is when it almost directly linksitself to the stuff you used to
love.
So like the like the stuff youdo for like our brewery and like
all of the stuff that like justgoes back into your childhood.
Like, that's the shit.
SPEAKER_03 (04:17):
Well, dude, it's funny, it's funny you mention
our brewing because like we weyou know they're they're big
masters of the universe, guys,right?
And like I could not be morefucking stoked about this movie
that's coming out.
This is not a plug, this is nota thing.
Like, we're not big enough forpeople to pay me for that, but
I'm so fucking stoked.
We're going.
Yeah, I'm dressing up.
We're gonna be going.
(04:37):
Ooh, or are we dressing down?
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm gonna look good either way,damn it.
Yeah, we're going.
I'm super stoked about it too.
Yeah, I also feel that when Ican link my work back to the
things that I used to love,that's when it's like I know I'm
doing it right.
Is at the end of the day, asartists, if we're not tapping
(05:01):
into what we think is reallycool and interesting and what
has influenced us over theyears, like what are we?
You could Google search.
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Yeah, that's got to be the first like filter, right?
Like, do I like this?
And you know, like early in mycareer too, like I was I spent
so much time just likefloundering trying to make what
I thought people wanted.
Because I mean, I mean, if we'rebeing honest, I was in an
environment where that was thenorm that was encouraged, and
(05:29):
that sucks, and then I got thefuck out of there.
Yeah, it took me like fiveyears, but I got the fuck out of
there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But man, like I am, I am in aspot now where like I there is
no way that I'm gonna bringsomething to the table that I am
not in love with.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
That's a great spot to be in.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
But then also the payoff is that like, you know,
it's the vulnerability, and likeI might get my heart broken, but
I also might fight you about it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
Yeah, that's right.
Which you love to do anyways.
I do.
You love getting in the ring.
SPEAKER_03 (06:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
You know what's interesting, and you've just
made me realize this, is early,early on when I started
shooting, I was literally justshooting for myself.
And I found people gravitatetowards that and they like
appreciated my work because ofthat.
I don't, I can't think of adefining moment, but there was a
moment when I started likegetting in my head and thinking,
like, well, what do I need to beshooting for other people?
And I felt, I felt like a pullaway from my work from people.
(06:24):
Like I felt like I was reachingless people.
And now over the course of thelast, I don't know, I don't even
know how long, but like fiveyears or so, I'm fully tapped
into what I think is cool andloving the work I'm doing.
And I'm watching our businesslike I'm really watching our
business grow because of it.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Dude, it's I mean, I've said this, I've said this a
thousand times, but it's likepeople can smell the bullshit,
you know?
SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Well, before we dive in, don't forget to follow
wherever you're listening, leavea five-star review, and don't
forget to tell your friends.
SPEAKER_03 (06:53):
Also, uh, this thing runs off of merch sales and
listener support and reviews.
Um, go do all that stuff.
We'll love you forever for it.
Um, and here's my uh here's myconversation with Mark Stein,
Stein by Design.
Dude, I've I've never been asunsure and uncomfortable about
(07:15):
maybe anything in my life as Iwas about making sure that like
I got the time conversion right.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Yeah, I checked this line.
I thought uh I think it's 11o'clock, and then I'd because my
partner's American and I'msorry, my wife's American, and
she's like checked through yourtime schedule, and I'm like, I
think it's 10 o'clock, and thenyou sent that email through.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:38):
Yeah, I would dude, I was sitting there and I was
like, wait a minute, we just hada time change.
I bet you that biffed everythingup.
Had to have.
Nah, it's all good.
Had to have, but yeah, man, likeI said, like I I uh I don't know
anything about you.
You're you're so like any anydetails about you are so sparse
on the internet, man.
SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
Yeah, I'm a bit of a phantom.
I'm trying to get more obviouslyonline more, but um yeah, I
didn't start posting my artworktill probably properly until
like five years ago.
SPEAKER_03 (08:11):
Yeah, really?
Yeah, it's been really good, butwhat was what was the push to
kind of put it out there?
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Oh, just basically, yeah, like I'm 41, turning 42
this year, and just life's tooshort.
And yeah, working an older jobback then, and it kind of
changed my perception on things.
So I had the cliche thing, like,you know, I'm driving to work.
I always had artwork since I wasa kid.
Like I've started when I wasseven years old, and it's always
(08:38):
been my happy place with what Ido.
And yeah, always had on the backburner doing jobs here and there
for people, and then yeah,driving to work one day, and I
literally got that universalpush from a truck, and yeah,
totally totally right off mycar, and then I was like, ah,
this is the the epiphany moment,and yeah, just started pushing
(08:59):
it and um connecting becauseI've always been a lone wolf as
most creatives are, andconnected with some community,
which was really good for me andto boost my confidence, and
yeah, just started putting itout slowly, so yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
What what is the uh creative community like in
Australia?
SPEAKER_01 (09:16):
Oh, it's huge, it's awesome.
Yeah, like my like I've got uh aDiscord group with like one of
designers and artists and stuff,and it's probably about 10 of
us, and we're called the FlamingGulars, which is really funny,
and yeah, we just send throughum ideas, pricing, but just
boost each other up, which isawesome.
And I never had that because Iwas always like, Man, I'm the
(09:38):
only one that does this stuff,like that's what most creatives
think, and then you likediscover new people, and you're
like, fuck, there's actuallymore people out here like this,
and it's like you know, when youget that spark of knowledge,
you're like, Oh shit, yeah, wecan help and push off each other
and whatever.
So, yeah, it's basically yeah,I'm like I'm three quarters
(10:00):
part-time artist, and then I'vegot a two-day day job just to
get away.
SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
I was just gonna say, what does that mean?
What does that mean that you'rea part-time artist?
SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
So basically, two days a week I have another job,
and then this year I'm gonna tryand convert to go full-time, but
just learning my way again.
So, but it's awesome.
Like, I've had really goodfeedback about my work and um
opportunities of lately, whichhas been great.
So it's like, well, you know, ifanyone else can do it, I can do
it, but I just gotta grindharder.
SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
So and you're like you're like pulling in some
attention from like some prettyserious clients, right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Lately, yeah.
I've actually been really blownaway.
I'm like, what?
And I got a message, like I dida job, I probably can't mention
it just yet.
Um, but yeah, it's from a bandthat I've grown up with, and I
was like, wow, okay, cool.
And that was just a DM, and Iwas like, fuck, that's unreal.
Like that, I can't fathom it atthe time.
Yeah.
(10:55):
So then I actually yeah, did it,completed it, was all good.
And then I sit back when Ifinish, and I'm like, wow, if I
could tell my 14-year-old selfthat, that's really, really
cool.
SPEAKER_03 (11:04):
Yeah, he's never gonna believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
No, he'd be so stoked.
And um, yeah, so just keepplugging, but it's all about a
balance.
Like, obviously, a few years agowhen I got into it, I was like,
I'm gonna do this.
So I was like getting up at fouro'clock and I was like, I'm
gonna draw, I'm gonna draw, I'mgonna draw.
And there's that balance ofburnout.
Yeah, and I actually yeah, Iburnt myself out that bad.
(11:28):
I ended up in hospital.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
And yeah, I had this little thing called
atrofibulation, it's like in aregular heartbeat.
Like I'm a healthy guy, butbecause I was drawing and
putting my life on the line,basically.
And yeah, so after that Ilearned that balance of yeah,
know the know the um warningsigns before they kick in if
you're going too hard.
And it's just little things likewhen you're drawing, you you get
(11:55):
stuck in, you know, you don'thydrate properly, or you don't,
you know, you just want to keepgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (12:00):
Yeah, or you're only sleeping till 3 a.m.
SPEAKER_01 (12:02):
and well, I used to I've worked like yeah, all
different shifts over my lifeand done night like nights,
afternoons, mornings, but nowI'm back to mornings, which is
cool.
But yeah, I used to love gettingup and I used to live in the
high rise near the ocean and Iused to have a coffee and like
watch the sunrise and then kickright in, which was great.
But then yeah, I'd get to like11 o'clock and like I have no
(12:23):
breakfast.
And then you know, it all stemsfrom there.
So yeah, keeping your yeah,keeping your daily routine
really helps, which is cool.
SPEAKER_03 (12:33):
I feel like you kind of gotta be bitch slapped a
little bit to kind of be like, Imean, well I guess you were
because you stressed yourselfout so fucking hard you went to
the hospital.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Yeah, and that's the only way I learned.
So, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (12:47):
So let's go back a little bit.
I want to know about your originstory, um, because I think every
kid draws, right?
Um but you know, some of uscan't let it go for uh for for
better or worse.
You know, some of us are justare just wired for it.
So what uh what what do youthink kept you in from you know
(13:08):
starting to draw at seven yearsold to 41?
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Jeez, I think um so basically obviously every kid
watches cartoons, and that'swhere my love started.
So I used to watch like Red andthe Stimpy, Mo Rocco's Modern
Life, and that just was likefuck, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03 (13:25):
Yeah, dude.
SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
And then I'm like 41, so I'm pre-internet age.
So I used to like tape cartoonson VHS.
This is this is a spin out, andthen I'd pause it, and then I'd
draw because we didn't haveYouTube or tutorials or
anything.
So I used to pause it and thendraw expressions on faces, and
that love was like from there,and then like I'd buy magazines
(13:48):
and then I'd draw from that.
Basically, it was just always inthe back of my mind.
I always did it.
Uh, I did it through highschool.
I was that typical non-jock guythat always used to draw.
Like, I'd get along witheveryone, and I used to have
parties in my place, andeveryone would be say watching
football, and I'd be up the backdrawing.
(14:08):
That's just my where I feltcomfortable.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
I love that, dude.
You're my people, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
I can tell it's awesome.
Um so yeah, I did that throughhigh school.
Um, a lot of people can see liketattoo references in my work,
and they're like, Why don't yoube a tattooist?
And I was like, uh, and Istarted working at like 18.
I was like, oh no, it's just notmy thing, and I didn't resonate
with it.
Um, nothing against tattoo atall.
SPEAKER_03 (14:33):
But dude, tattooing somebody, the idea of tattooing
somebody scares the shit out ofme.
Yeah that's like that's likehigh stakes stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (14:42):
Everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:44):
Yeah, you know, and like I know my hand, like she's
gonna it's it's weird stuff isgonna happen, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Skin is different to paper.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, yeah, so basically drewthroughout high school, just
loved it.
Um did like two up, like I'mself-taught, I've never been
like trained or anything likethat, and that's just the love
of it and the passion of sinceI've been a kid.
In high school, I took like twoclasses where it was like main
art, which I found really, youknow, boring.
(15:11):
And there's another thing calledlike design and action, which
was like just do your thing andjust draw whatever.
And then I'd get to a pointwhere I wasn't doing it in
class, but I'd love doing it athome, and then I'd bring my
stuff in from at home and I'dget marked like that.
Because that was my comfy.
Um, yeah, so yeah, didn't drawfor 10 years, started drumming,
(15:31):
loved that.
Um, and then slowly got backinto drawing, and then yeah,
probably what am I now, 41,probably 36.
I was like, nah, like you'vebeen doing it all your life.
It's like a fire starts whenyou're a little kid, yeah.
And you find that spark and nowrealize to keep that fire
(15:54):
burning, and it's repetition.
Like you've gotta every day kindof do something to an extent.
And yeah, basically, if I don'tdo something every day, I feel
like that that fire is kind ofgoing like you kind of feel like
you're falling behind a littlebit, or uh, or like uh you're
kind of being snuffed out, yeah.
(16:16):
But I don't know, just like as Isaid, connecting with other
artists has really helped me alot.
And yeah, just like you know,learning how they struggle with
things, and it's like a lotsimilar to me, and it's like you
know, we're all human at the endof the day, but I still like
drawing so long, I still finddrawing hard, if that makes
(16:39):
sense.
SPEAKER_03 (16:39):
Because I always do it, it makes perfect sense.
SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
Yeah.
Because like I never sit thereand go, I'm an artist.
I never I never sit there andsay that because I'm always
wanting to learn.
And if I don't find it difficultto do, it means that I'm not
trying to, I'm not doing mybest, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
Yeah, yeah, you're not pushing yourself enough.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So like if I've you know, we allhave those.
So we have a client come alongand we go, they give us our
ideas and we go, yeah, yeah,yeah, cool.
And then we sit down on the dayand we're like pumped, and
there's that first 30 minuteswhere you're like, fuck, you
know, what are you gonna do withit?
And I think about I think aboutprojects two days before I go
(17:20):
in.
So I just think about it, andthat's just how my brain works.
And then yeah, I sit down,there's that half an hour of
like, you know, what am I gonnado?
And then as soon as you startdrawing for like five minutes,
you're like, oh yeah, cool.
And it all starts, yeah, yeah.
Um, so basically, yeah, art hasalways been in my bones ever
since I was a kid, and like Ilove it, like it's just a world,
(17:43):
you know, it's that typicalsaying, a world without art, art
is just uh, you know.
Yeah, and it goes for likeeverything.
Like, um, you know, if you'reinto instruments or you're into
pottery or into gardening, Ithink being creative is awesome
for your mind, like it is.
Yeah, it really is.
And yeah, everyone should justpick up some form of being
(18:06):
creative, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (18:08):
Talk to me a little bit about some more of the uh uh
earlier influences, right?
Like, I mean you talked aboutRen and Stimpy and you know
magazines and stuff, but there'sa very clear uh uh punk and
skate kind of culture influence,right?
SPEAKER_01 (18:22):
Alright, cool.
So basically, um born in the80s, grew up in the 90s, um, and
started skateboarding at the ageof I'd say 13 and heavily into
skateboarding.
So I'd skateboard for like sixhours a day, every day.
And I was pushing to getsponsored, and I loved it, like
(18:45):
absolutely loved it.
And I think that scene and Istumbled across skateboard
graphics, and that just meldedawesomely.
And I used to source like coolum skateboard brands, shirts
from America that had wickedgraphics, and I was like, Yeah,
cool, I want that.
So that inspired me.
Um started getting into punkmusic when I was 12, and like my
(19:10):
first ever gig that I ever beento in my life was Mel and Collin
when I was like 13.
SPEAKER_03 (19:15):
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:15):
And that was, you know, I got the ball rolling,
and then um, so yeah, skate uhskating and punk music goes hand
in hand with my style.
And then I think when I starteddrumming a bit later, I got into
more heavier stuff because Iliked like double kicks and all
that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03 (19:33):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
And some bit of a like I chop between metal and
then I go back to punk and thenI go through like weeks later.
Um, but yeah, skateboarding andpunk music, you probably hear it
from everyone that's into it.
It's like it's art, it's allit's all connected.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
Something I love about like punk and skate
culture and stuff is that likeit doesn't really ask for
permission for anything.
And um, as an outsider lookingat your work, like it's it
screams that man.
It's so um, I don't know, likelike your work is so free and
like kind of fucked up in thecoolest ways.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
I like that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
Uh so like at this point in your career, like what
do you what do you are youtrying to say anything with your
work?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Um I try to like, you know, obviously with artists
as like light and dark and allthat kind of thing, but I don't
really get too far into it.
I just like to make cool shitand have fun with it and
basically have a bit of fun inmy work if you can see it.
Like, you know, say it's a skullor whatever, like it could be
dark.
Most people see that, but I liketo have a bit of fun with it,
(20:39):
you know what I mean?
Yeah, and I think that's wherewatching cartoons come into
play.
So like I'm trying to learn moreum stylization in my work, and
that's really difficult to do,like things that are tweaked and
things that are warped, and itjust adds more character.
But yeah, so basically, youknow, if you look at my artwork
(20:59):
and you like it or appreciateit, it's cool, but more fun,
like more more spirit, morechildlike spirit.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (21:07):
Yeah, what do you what do you hope people get out
of it?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
Basically, I've been really thinking about changing
to go to mural work.
That's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_03 (21:16):
Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Yeah, that's a scary jump.
Oh, I'm keen for it.
Um, to navigate it, I'mlearning.
So basically, I just want to bediverse.
I don't want to be stuck on ascreen.
I don't.
Yeah.
And you know, working on youknow, working on screens for
hours, it just fries your brain.
So basically, um, I don't knowif you've seen some of the other
(21:40):
stuff I've been doing, which islike um wood cutouts and stuff.
Yeah.
And I thought that's really fun.
So that's another thing I cando.
Um, physical artwork, which isfun because you can do digital
stuff, print it, but handmadeoriginals is really, really
cool.
And I spend like yeah, a fewweeks on those, like per thing.
(22:03):
That thing behind me that tookme like on and off about two and
a half weeks.
SPEAKER_03 (22:09):
Dude, honestly, I thought you were gonna stay
longer.
SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
I'd say that's pretty, pretty um generous two
and a half weeks, but that's atwo layer, so I had to cut out
all the little pieces by handwith a jigsaw.
SPEAKER_03 (22:22):
No shit.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
Yeah, so and I was new, like, because I wanted that
like 3D dimension, and I thinkdoing stuff like that has
actually got me interested inlike art installations as well
and making like 3D kind ofpieces.
But yeah, so basically, withoutrambling, I want to like Have
multiple things I can do, butyeah, I think murals are really,
really, really cool.
I did one about two years ago tomake screenshot uh screen
(22:46):
printing plays, and yeah, it wasso much fun.
It took me like 60 hours to dobecause it was like eight meters
by six meters.
SPEAKER_03 (22:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
And he's into like chopper bikes and like uh
reapers and stuff, so I did abig one across his wall.
And yeah, it was an awesomelearning curve.
I did one when I was younger,um, was all like yeah, in my
bedroom and like making it alllike sofa kind of stuff.
But yeah, I don't know.
I got really inspired about bigpieces of artwork, and that's
where I'd like to take it.
SPEAKER_03 (23:17):
So I I signed on to do a uh to do a mural last
summer, and I dude, I put it offand I put it off because I like
I got I got scared, I think.
You know, like I got uh I gotintimidated and it got the best
of me.
Like I backed out like a fuckingcoward.
Um, you know, try to clean upwhatever reason, you know, that
(23:37):
is not my fault for why I didn'tdo it.
But uh do you do you ever get uhdo you ever get intimidated by
anything you you see kind ofcoming down the way?
SPEAKER_01 (23:46):
Oh like imposter syndrome, it always kicks in,
man.
Like it always kicks in, andyou're sitting there and you're
like, uh, I want to do it.
And then you get a chance andyou're like, then I kind of rule
it out and I'm like, I have todo it.
Like, if it's gonna kill me, Ihave to do it.
So, but yeah, when I tackledthat wall, I was like, you know,
Matt's really, really cool.
(24:07):
So we had a great relationshipand I walked in there, and then
when it actually came time to doit, I was like, oh, okay, this
is pretty big.
SPEAKER_03 (24:14):
You're like, oh, it's a big wall.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
And you know, I I can't work in there till like 1
a.m.
tunes cranking and stuff likethat, but just learning, like as
soon as you get over that firstfive minutes, then you kind of
just start you start working andyou have no time to think, you
just work, work, work, work.
But yeah, it's scary.
Like, like when I starteddrawing, I mean, doing like
(24:38):
clients' works and stuff likethat.
You just get to a point whereyou or when you start it, you're
like, I don't want to fuck itup.
I always want to do the bestthing I can for someone, even if
I work overtime, always, becauseI don't want to put out work
that I'm not completely proudof.
SPEAKER_03 (24:55):
You can't.
SPEAKER_01 (24:56):
No, you can't.
And there are times you can'tget it perfect, but you can go
to sleep and not saying that'sthe best that I can do, and
that's that's all you can do.
SPEAKER_03 (25:05):
Your identity and um and your and your thoughts and
the thing that you're thatyou're making kind of get all
tangled together.
So like what's that what's thatrelationship like for you?
Like, is there a line betweenyou know Mark as a Mark as a
person, Mark as a as a creative?
SPEAKER_01 (25:25):
Well, yeah, everyone's their own being and
what they do on differentthings, but being a creative is
your whole life.
It's your whole life.
Like I everything I try to do, Itry to be creative with without
sounding like a dick, you knowwhat I mean?
But yeah.
Without being like, yeah, I'mfine, but yeah.
(25:45):
Um basically just be yourselfand do what you do what you do
and enjoy it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:50):
So so then outside of the construct too of uh of
normal designer clientrelationships or you or you're
making something for yourselfafter work hours, like how how
are you using that creativeenergy?
Like what do you what gets it?
Who gets it?
SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
It's a balance, like you gotta have you know, time
for your you know, your family,your life, and your art.
If I've got a job on, then I'm100% in on that job until it's
like okay, I gotta have dinnerand then you know that's it for
the day.
And then when that job finishes,and then I have say like a
little bit of time in betweenthe next job, that's when I'm
(26:28):
thinking personal projects.
And I think personal projectsare very, very good for yourself
because then you're not stuckdoing job, job, job, job, job,
and you have no creative freedomfor yourself.
So yeah, and then it's just abalance with everything like go
to bed early, because I thinknothing after 9 30, 10 o'clock
(26:50):
is gonna work out, so you justgo to sleep.
Yeah, it's really like my wife,like my wife, she's very
structured and routinely, so shealways she gets me into gear,
which I need, so it's nice.
SPEAKER_03 (27:02):
Dude, I love that.
Um speaking of balance though,um, how are you achieving
balance?
Like, because you know, like youjust said, like at 9 30, 10
o'clock, shut it down, whatever,but like that's not always easy
to do.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
You just have to wind down, and like obviously,
if I'm in bed, yeah.
You think Tell me your secrets.
How do you get out of it?
That's what I need.
Eat a big dinner.
unknown (27:27):
Yeah, done.
SPEAKER_01 (27:28):
Eat a big dinner, get full, get get nappy, and go
to bed.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (27:32):
Well, real quick, I should have asked.
Say your name so I know how tosay it correctly, so I don't
look like an asshole.
SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Like the German beer, Stein.
SPEAKER_03 (27:40):
Are you a beer guy?
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, so if I'm gonna drink a beer, I'd be like
IPA kind of guy.
SPEAKER_03 (27:48):
Yeah, dude, same.
Yeah, same.
You do some like label work too,right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:52):
Yeah, it's really cool.
I um been working, I've justfinished one that hasn't come
out, but it's uh a companycalled Shred in California.
It's a brewery, and yeah, I gota prize to do one a few months
back, and I was absolutelystoked because being an artist,
you always want to get on a beercan.
Yeah, it's just it's a tick.
SPEAKER_03 (28:11):
And yeah, it's it's one of the coolest things you
can do.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Yeah, definitely.
And yeah, so I did the firstone, and it's like yeah, real
skate graphic, kind of what's itcalled?
Gooseberry garden.
So I did like these kind ofcreepy vines and this like Abyss
kind of skull, yeah.
Real like blues and likefluorescent greens and stuff
like that.
So yeah, really stoked withthat.
(28:36):
Uh, I got a few friends that dobeer can work in Australia, and
yeah, in Australia, like beercan artists are huge.
Like, there's every breweryaround the corner in Australia
that just wants to keep makingcool art.
Um, so yeah, to like not evenwork in Australia breweries,
I've gone straight to America,which is I find that really,
really cool.
SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
The next beer can is like 420 related.
Yeah, fuck yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:01):
Does it have anything extra in it?
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
No.
SPEAKER_03 (29:06):
Son of a bitch.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
No, it doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_03 (29:11):
Oh man, dude, so where I live in uh Grand Rapids,
Michigan, like I think it's likeeight years or something like
that, maybe longer, uh, has beenrecognized as Beer City USA.
Uh we have like the mostbreweries per capita or
whatever.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know how we get thattitle, but there's a shit ton of
breweries.
Yeah.
(29:32):
Doing um art for beer has beenlike like like it's been a fun
thing for me.
Um so to kind of go back to whatwe were talking about earlier
about like uh finding thatcreative community.
There is actually a um there's aconference in Chicago called the
Bop Conference.
And like I've I've never reallymet other designers who like
(29:57):
make stuff for beer, you know?
But it's like when you walk in aroom and then and then there's
200 other beer designers inthere, dude.
That like sense of community isjust it's gnarly.
It's gnarly.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
You weren't sleep that night, your brain's just on
fire after talking.
SPEAKER_03 (30:12):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's like uh, you know,you're kind of looking at what
everybody else is doing andtrying to be like not be weird
with it, you know?
Like uh, like here, let me tellyou this story.
So uh I went out there a coupleyears ago, and it was right uh
right after COVID, right?
So uh I got socially awkward andkind of weird for a few minutes
(30:37):
coming out of there, like Iforgot how to be, you know, and
uh and I was kind of textingwith my wife.
We were at this like mixer andstuff before the conference, and
I was like, I know these are mypeople, like I just gotta like,
you know, I gotta get my headout of my ass a little bit and
go go talk to somebody.
And and uh she's like, just gofind somebody, like just so you
know, go find somebody thatlooks cool, strike up a
(30:58):
conversation.
And dude, as far as I got waslike like this one dude's kind
of like walking toward me, and Istart to kind of and he just
keeps walking, and I'm like,fuck me, dude.
I'm out.
I just went back to the hotelroom.
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
Yeah, it's hard, it's like you know, we just get
a neuron psyche kind of thing,and it's like we're all just the
same people, you know what we'redoing.
And then you like say you talkto someone like telly off topic,
you talk to someone that youadmire on it like Instagram, and
you're like, oh, but then likewe're all the same.
That's it.
SPEAKER_03 (31:32):
Yeah, dude, I love it.
Um Mark, is there anything elsewe should talk about before we
go tapic happin'?
SPEAKER_02 (31:39):
Can't think of anything at the moment.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
Alright, well then let's do it.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
I'll hope people would say that I'm easygoing and
laid back.
Um that I treated people withthe same amount of respect that
I'd want to be treated.
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
Um, finish the thought.
Creativity requires passion andpatience.
Expand on that.
SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
Have the patience to learn your craft and have the
fire and the passion to keep itgoing.
SPEAKER_03 (32:13):
So good.
Um what what would your lastmeal be?
SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
Ooh.
Um probably like uh ribeye withlike mushroom sauce or
something.
SPEAKER_03 (32:26):
Yeah, fucking a right, dude.
Um what's the what's the best orthe worst advice that you've
ever received?
SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
It's just a hobby or it's a pipe dream.
SPEAKER_03 (32:38):
Oh dude, I could I would I could backhand somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (32:42):
Yeah.
You know, it will be if you'renot gonna push it.
Like it's just gonna be a fadeddream if you're not gonna push
it.
So if you want it, go get it.
SPEAKER_03 (32:53):
At some point the training wheels have to come
off, right?
So so when when did things getserious for you?
SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Probably late 30s, to be honest.
Like that I actually was gonnabe like, yeah, I need to I need
to do this because it deepinside me was always I had the
purpose of doing artwork, but Ineed to do this for the rest,
like I want to do this for therest of my life, and I need to
(33:23):
pull my finger out.
So we all go through life, we docertain things, different roads
or whatever.
But then you're like, this iswhat I'm here for, like this is
why I want to do what I do, andyou know, that's in my mind
that's the only thing I'm halfdecent at.
So I need to do what I love,because that's what bring me
happiness at the end of the day.
(33:43):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (33:44):
Oh, that's the fucking best.
Um what would your walk-up songbe?
What's your walk-up song?
SPEAKER_02 (33:53):
Where am I walking into?
SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
Fucking anywhere you want.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
Yeah, probably that one.
SPEAKER_03 (34:03):
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (34:04):
Or if it's like a bigger thing like Black Dahlia
Murder or something like that.
SPEAKER_03 (34:09):
Oh, so you're like, you're not fucking around.
SPEAKER_01 (34:12):
I have different ranges, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (34:16):
Um Mark, what what makes you feel most like
yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (34:22):
Um, that's a tough question.
Feels like myself.
SPEAKER_01 (34:28):
When I give this would be like an art base
question, but when I givesomeone something that I've
created and seen it in theirface, and if they're super
stoked with that, then that'show I feel my best self.
SPEAKER_03 (34:43):
Dude, that that feeling doesn't get old.
It just doesn't.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
It gets better and better.
SPEAKER_03 (34:49):
But on the opposite side of that, that fucking
sucks.
I gifted my brother a printbecause he was he was really uh
instrumental in like encouragingme to like break off on my own
and and uh you know open up anonline shop and all that fun
stuff.
So as soon as like it was a realthing, like I I gifted him a you
(35:13):
know, I gifted him a print andum then he got uh then he got
divorced and I came over to helphim move.
And that son of a bitch, like hethe print was just stuffed under
his bed, just beat to dog shit.
So now I'm like now I'm all likeshy about like do I want to give
(35:35):
somebody artwork, do I want togift it, or am I being like
presumptuous like they give ashit?
SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
If it makes you feel good in the moment, that should
be all that matters, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (35:47):
My man, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (35:50):
Because whatever happens happens to it and you
got no control of it.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (35:53):
God, I love that.
Mark, do you have any regrets?
SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
No, probably starting uh uh earlier, and I
couldn't say I was seven yearsold, so I couldn't really start
it anywhere.
SPEAKER_01 (36:08):
No, no, I'd like to live a life of no regrets
because then that just taintsyou.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
Alright, I got I got one more question for you.
Are you okay?
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, I'm happy.
I'm actually happy.
Yeah, it's cool.
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
Good man.
I love that.
Dude, thank you for doing this.
It was uh a freaking treat to uhcome out and hang out with you
for a little bit.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
No, it's absolutely pleasure, man.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_03 (36:37):
Yeah, uh before we go, where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
So I'm in the process of doing a new website,
so basically the easiest way toget and see my stuff will be
Instagram.
That would be the best way to doit at the moment.
SPEAKER_03 (36:50):
Um yeah, so that's at Steinby Design, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (36:54):
Yeah, at Steinby Design or Steinbydesign.art at
gmail.com would be my bestemail.
Um, so yeah, if you want toreach out, you want to get some
work done, hit me up.
I'm keen and let's createsomething cool together.
SPEAKER_03 (37:07):
Dude, I love it.
Thank you for doing this.
I really appreciate it, man.
SPEAKER_01 (37:10):
Thank you, man.
SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
You go have a lovely afternoon.
I'm gonna go to bed.
unknown (37:18):
All right, man.
SPEAKER_03 (37:18):
It's almost lunchtime.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
It's almost lunchtime.
It's gonna have some lunch.
SPEAKER_03 (37:21):
Yeah, I love it, dude.
All right, man, let's get out ofhere.
SPEAKER_02 (37:23):
Uh thanks, man.
SPEAKER_04 (37:24):
Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my
head.
I can't even make them go away.
SPEAKER_03 (37:32):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Ed McCall, and
co-hosted by photographer GilMadison.
Music is noises by Mike makingthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you take your podcast.
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