August 4, 2026 • 41 mins
Part of our REWIND summer series, we’re revisiting eight conversations that crawled into our brains and hearts, nested, and just live there now. This time, it’s "Scott Millington: Real AF" from Season 5.
Scott Millington (photographer) has always had an eye for real-life moments and in photography, he found the language to document them. Scott sits down with Aaron McCall to talk about how the camera gave him purpose, community, and a way to show the world as he sees it. From indie wrestling shows to coffee shops and protests, Scott shares what it means to document real life, connect with people, and stay grounded in your perspective.
Remembering Scott Millington:
IG: @sapmillington
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
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——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
——
Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
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Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
I see someone real quick.
I want to take the portrait.
Right then, I don't want to givethem any time to think, what do
I need to do?
Because to me, that kind ofruins it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social
Club Rewind.
My name is Aaron McCall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
And I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Earlier this year, February, we lost a friend and
an important member of thecreative scene and the community
around Bad Idea Social Club.
So today we're going to revisitmy conversation with
Detroit-based photographer ScottMillington.
(01:32):
Scott saw his camera as a meansto meet new people, connect, and
document the moments that makelife vibrant and good.
Listening back feels good.
(01:58):
Like I can I can picture themoment when he pulled out his
camera and photographed me whilewe were recording.
Just because you never know.
SPEAKER_04 (02:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
But as much as I love that I have this like
recorded and easy to access forme, I think what I value most
are the conversations and textmessages and photo walks that
weren't recorded, the ones thatwere just for us, the ones that
I really got to know Scott.
(02:36):
And I do I do want to say thatif if you knew Scott personally,
um just know that hearing hisvoice might hit a little harder
than you'd expect, uh, becauseit did for me.
Yeah.
Um, so please take care ofyourself and do what's best for
you.
But uh for me, I needed it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
Yeah.
The memory I have of Scott is solike brief, uh, but it it really
was impactful.
It was at the art market, and heI was talking to him, I was
like, dude, I've been looking toum go on a photo walk with you
for a while.
I've been looking to reach outand just like offer whenever
it's available.
I'd love to do that.
And I told him, I was like, I'mjust like super nervous about
(03:16):
it.
And the way his eye contact andface changed, he just looked at
me, he was just like, Why?
Like that process was so notabout just like being
photographer, showing what wecan do.
It was so much more just abouttwo humans connecting and doing
something that they lovetogether.
And I'm I would be lying if Isaid I haven't thought about
that interaction every once in awhile, ever since that day.
(03:39):
Um so I do think he had a reallyunique way of connecting with
people.
Don't forget sorry.
Before we dive in, don't forgetto follow wherever you're
listening.
Leave a five-star review.
Don't forget to tell yourfriends, and please take care of
yourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Also, this thing does run off of uh merch sales
and listener support and review.
So please help us out.
Go do all that fun stuff.
And here is my conversation withScott Millington, real AF, uh,
season five, episode six.
Swearing on this or what?
(04:14):
Yeah, you can do whatever youwant.
Go ahead and put your uh putyour headphones on, see how
things feel.
Dude, I don't know.
We've gotten to know each otherpretty good over the last year.
Yeah, what was uh two years?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Um it's longer than that.
I feel like uh before pandemic.
Do you have any idea how wecross paths?
Because I don't.
I think it's uh through Becky.
Oh, yeah.
I think that's what most popularwas.
Yeah, and I probably saw thatyou were posting wrestling
content.
And then that was it.
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting becausewe have wrestling and then we
have beer, creative stuff,creative stuff, but the like
(04:44):
wrestling and the beer industryare earlier probably the two
that's pillars.
SPEAKER_02 (04:48):
That's too many things not to just hang on to.
Yeah.
So especially like especiallymeeting like another wrestling
fan who's not a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Well, I was just actually talking to my wrestling
friend on the way out, and uhyeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm
hanging out with my wrestlingfriend that's not part of our
group, which there's not many ofthat, you know, like that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So um yeah, I think the first time we met was I came
out to Detroit for a wrestlingshow and then met up with you
the next day to do the Here IsTheir Story thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did that, and then we did uh acouple photos.
Uh one of my favorite photosI've that we took on that one
was the it was just anaccidental snap, and you were
like looking down and you'rekind of out of focus.
It was that black eyed.
I know that photo.
SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
I love that photo.
And like, dude, I was so stokedto be photographed by you
because there's like thisrawness, there's this
authenticity to it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
Like, I don't know, is like is is photo journalism
kind of a fair I would just saylike documenting the moment is
my favorite way of uh describingmy my style.
I love that.
Um I want the authentic realityof the photo being there, and
capturing those moments whenpeople are being themselves is
the ideal way of getting thosephotos.
(06:01):
So having conversations whileI'm snapping the photos um is a
great way to make that personreally loose and be themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Um well here, kind of explain the concept of here's
their story for anybody thatmight not know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Yeah, that was probably my first project that I
had based on photography.
A lot of times it was just goingout in a shoot, and then so I
came up with this idea for forhere's their story because of
like during COVID, I just didn'thave anything that really kept
me motivated.
So I really wanted to try tocapture people's stories through
(06:36):
photos, so hence here's theirstory.
And it started off with a couplefriends and eventually it kind
of got adventurous and askingother people that I saw them
being really creative out thereand I didn't really know their
story, so I wanted to kind oftell that through photos.
Um first person I actuallyreached out to that I didn't
(06:57):
really know was a coffee ownerand she was also a photographer,
so I figured I would ask her andshe would probably say yes
because she was a photographer.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Um so yeah, that kind of blossomed, and
eventually I was doing it twotimes a week and eventually kind
of got burnt out.
Sure.
And it was just kind of aproject where I think I just
kind of fizzled out.
Something that I would love torestart, maybe in a different
aspect if it's still doing thephotos, but then tying it in
with something different.
But it's kind of a project thatI kind of just put off the off
(07:29):
the side, and eventually, youknow, doing that, I kind of had
an opportunity to do it withyou.
So it was kind of cool to openup some creative doors through
that.
Um, and it's always a project Ican always go back to.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Well, I was gonna ask you about that.
That you're probably meeting allkinds of fucking characters.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah.
It was cool because I thinkeventually, like we mentioned
earlier, Becky was one of thepersons that um that we had an
opportunity to kind of do.
So it's like when you talk toone person and then kind of show
their story, then they share it,and then eventually your work
gets shown to their network, andthen even vice versa, their work
(08:05):
gets shown to my network when Iget to do that.
So it's kind of cool, you know.
Some people were, for example,for yourself, graphic designers,
um, candle makers, people thatwere in the food industry, you
know, beer people.
I had an opportunity to do oneuh with a local uh brewer out in
Detroit and kind of got toseeing the the process of the
(08:27):
beer being made and then kind ofjust showing their own
creativity way into that.
So that was just kind of thatavenue.
I had an opportunity to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
You know, it's kind of funny.
I I love the photos that youtook of me.
My only issue is that I think itwas the like the day before,
maybe two days before, I had afucking root canal.
Oh really?
Yeah, so like if I whatever, ifif if I've posted any, I've I've
kind of brought in my fuckingswollen cheek a little bit.
(08:55):
Oh it's like I'm sure nobodyelse is like.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
I'm noticing nobody else probably even knew that
because like I don't think Ieven remember that or even saw
that like that.
So but it's as funny assometimes.
unknown (09:06):
It doesn't work.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
I think that's like the cool part with like some of
these photos, at least formyself, um, is like when I take
them, they're always like kindof associated with like a time
or a period or a memory or uhdifferent things like that.
And it's like for me, I thinkprobably I probably say like the
birth of as being a photographerwas 2018, probably late 2018,
getting that camera, and you cansee the growth over time, but
(09:31):
just like certain periodsassociate it with certain
photos, and um that's the kindof cool aspect like that.
And it's like for you, you it'slike when you see those photos,
it's like nope, the root canal.
Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Do you ever go back and kind of uh revisit those
different periods or kind oflook at your growth?
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Uh yeah, it's usually when it's surrounded
around when I get to pick photosfor a photo show or from
submitting something along thelines of that.
Um, so that's kind of cool tosee the growth because sometimes
we're like, ooh, what was Idoing during this time for these
photos?
But then you look back at it andyou're like, oh man, these were
some really, really good photos.
Um last year, uh 2024, actuallyright around this time, uh, did
(10:12):
a show.
The topic was birds.
I don't know.
I got to the point where I'mlike, okay, I'm gonna do a whole
show about birds.
But that was really cool becauseit had photos right from the
beginning when I bought my firstcamera.
Uh, so I had some photos fromthen all the way to basically
present time when that showhappened.
And it was kind of cool to seethe growth in different spots.
(10:32):
Like, you know, I think I hadNew York photos, I had San
Francisco photos, a lot,obviously, here in Detroit.
Um, but yeah, it was kind ofcool to see the growth, and that
was kind of a cool way of doingthat.
My photography work is kind ofjust documenting in the moment,
like what's happening,essentially it's just kind of
documenting my life or likewhat's ex happening during that
(10:52):
time.
Yeah.
Um, and that's really cool forthat, because then that just
shows that these are my photos.
But even when if I'm someone'sbringing me on to go do some
photography work, I really wantto capture what's happening at
that um that moment.
So setting up like stage photosis kind of more of a challenging
thing for me.
Um, so but if someone brings meon to do a client work, it's
(11:13):
like, okay, I need to capture itmy way.
I'm gonna have to, you know, doit as raw and authentic as
possible.
And obviously, if we need tocapture something that's staged,
we'll do it in a way um thatdoesn't suck.
Or just for me, that's just notmy style.
And you can kind of tell, likeit feels forced, and I don't
(11:36):
want to feel that forced on myend because if it feels forced
on my end, then it's gonnabecome you know, that subject is
gonna be feeling forced.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Well, and like as again, as a subject of yours, um
I kind of felt this like instantkind of connection, just very,
very comfortable uh with youkind of behind the camera.
Um is that like a consciousthing?
Um, are you kind of puttingyourself out there to make
people feel a little morecomfortable, or is it just your
demeanor or I would say probablyboth.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Um, for me, I'm just like very curious.
I mean, we had a little umopportunity to kind of know each
other um through you knowchatting on you know social
media um and having those kindof connections, but for me, you
know, breaking that ice and kindof making feel people real
comfortable is super important,especially if you have a big
giant camera lens like in yourface, yeah, you know, and then
(12:27):
you don't know, you know, it'salways the Ricky Bobby moment.
I don't know what to do with myhands.
So those stories or thoseconversations I can have with
someone really makes them feelloose.
And I know I've been on theother end of the camera and I've
been trying to take photos, andyou feel so stiff, yeah.
You don't want to feel that waybecause that just seems not
(12:49):
natural.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
And you know, once you get into that natural state
of being, that really capturesthe moment for me.
What do you kind of have to giveof yourself to kind of capture
those moments, though?
For me, it's just like beingimmersed into that situation.
So if it's you know working witha client or taking photos of
someone for something that we'redesigning to do, it's being in
(13:11):
that moment.
But then when I'm outdocumenting at a parade or at an
event, I'm within that moment.
Um, I want to kind of createthat point of view from that
aspect of like what's happening.
So for me, um, if I'm doing aconcert, I want to present it as
like what a fan would see, or ifI'm at a sporting event, it's
(13:34):
like what the fan is seeing inthat.
Um, so that's the angle I'mshooting or the perspective I'm
shooting at provides a reallygood way of doing that.
And using the framing and allthat type of stuff can really
show that.
And to me, that is documentingthe moment.
Um, it's not doing that, even ifI'm doing some of the portraits
(13:56):
that I do, it's environmentalportraits.
But it's like I see someone realquick, I want to take the
portrait right then.
I don't want to give them anytime to think, what do I need to
do?
Because to me, that kind ofruins it.
There's two spots that I couldthink of when it comes to
portraits that I love doing.
It's my NFL uh lions tailgatephotos.
(14:19):
It was when I see something,that moment, I want that photo.
So if they're grilling somethingand they have that spatula that
way, I want that photo, thatmoment.
And another one is when I go tomovement, it's uh a music
festival in Detroit, and peopleare just decked out in the
nines, and you know that theywant their photos, but I love if
(14:40):
they have something like there'sthis one photo I have.
She's sipping on a lemonade andit's light green uh and yellow,
and she had an outfit that wasjust matching herself, and she
was sipping on the straw.
It was actually a pink straw,too, and she had pink hair.
And I'm like, this is the momentI want right then.
And she like put her drink down.
I'm like, no, no, no.
(15:00):
I need the drink to tie thewhole photo together.
So those are what I want is inthat moment, like type of things
like that, and people feel socomfortable.
I don't know what it is.
I just over time just taking myphotos.
That's the style that Ideveloped, and to me, I feel so
comfortable doing that.
Um, but because if I didn't havethe camera, I couldn't tell that
(15:21):
person to go do that again.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Well, I was gonna say, I've seen you walk up to
people and just say, hey, I'mgonna blah blah blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
Yeah.
And I like, like, where doesthat where does that come from?
Um I don't know.
It's just like photography wasthe first thing that I felt
really, really good at, andpeople would say, like, your
work is really good.
Like, people have always toldme, like, oh, you're good at
this, but it just didn't feel tome that I was really good at
(15:47):
that.
Photography, there's somethingthat just really clicked right
at that moment.
I can't, I could think of maybetwo or three moments um at the
beginning where it kind of justfelt natural.
And then I'm like, okay, let'sjust do this.
I don't really ever get rejecteduh for a photo.
And if they do, if they say no,then hey, I'll just move on to
(16:11):
the next one.
Um, you know, and that just kindof built my confidence up, you
know, as a photographer, butalso in life and as a creative,
it just really felt comfortable.
And I'm like, okay, now I couldbranch out and do things.
Because at the end of the day,if someone says no, it's not not
a big deal.
You just move on to the nextthing and do it.
(16:32):
What were some of those momentsyou were talking about a few
minutes ago?
A couple of the Black LivesMatter uh protests were some of
the opportunities I had todocument like what was
happening, such an interestingmoment in time that those photos
probably will, you know, we'regonna live forever, and then
just kind of starting to do alot of Detroit things that were
(16:56):
like pop-ups based on food, um,and then just taking moments of
my friends and what they weredoing.
That was where kind of just likewhere everything kind of really
clicked of like, okay, I'm justgonna start taking photos of
like what's happening in lifeand just kind of led me to go
get adventurous and go to dodifferent things.
(17:17):
And now it's when I go to a lotof events, it's because I have
my camera and I really want topresent what is happening.
Uh, because who knows, thatevent may never happen again, or
that you know, something reallycool happens at an event, and
I've had these photos that I canpresent for the rest of my life
as my work.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Detroit is special.
I grew up kind of near there,and man, what does it feel like
to be able to like step back andlike call yourself a Detroit
artist?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um, I think it's really cool, and like I said, I
like to present what's happeningin Detroit because there's just
so much that's happening.
Being an artist can be anythingif it's someone that's you know
brewing beer, if they are achef, if they are drawing with a
pencil, if they're painting, um,even gardening.
(18:05):
Um, so that's really cool.
And I love to present what ishappening in Detroit or Metro
Detroit or just in general, andwith my camera I can do that,
and um really puts a spotlighton other people and broadcasts
like what they got going on.
So if they have a new restaurantthat's opening, or if it's for
(18:26):
me, coffee, I love documentingcoffee shops and what is
happening in these third spaces,um, is really cool.
Um, unfortunately, over timeI've seen places really shut
down or they've had to movelocations, and it's sad, but I
have these photos that'll liveforever, um, and I can always
(18:48):
post them and share them withpeople, and like I caught these
moments there.
Dude, what what is it aboutphotographers and coffee?
Um What do you think that is?
I I don't know.
I could tell you my myconnection of coffee and
photography.
So I have uh another series, Ido cameras and coffee.
Um, so I meet up with acreative, um, we get a cup of
(19:11):
coffee, or I get a cup ofcoffee.
Um, some people actually don'tlike coffee, which I view them
as being strange.
But hey, I view them as beingstrange, but no judgment.
Um, but yeah, so we get up anopportunity to grab coffee and
kind of see their creativeapproach.
Eventually it's blossomed to atsome point in the last count, I
(19:31):
think I've done it with about150 people.
SPEAKER_04 (19:33):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Um, so last year in 2024, it had a a show um that
kind of recapped all theadventures I had.
Um, so all the portraits I tookof people was actually put onto
onto a wall, and then I had anopportunity to show photos from
that series I did, and then Iopened it up to people to show
(19:57):
their photos or their creativework.
So I had a mini gallery of theirwork inside of my gallery.
So that was really kind of cool.
And I through that I've metthere's a lot of coffee and
camera people, um, but I can'ttell you why um they're
connected.
Um, I don't know.
I think creatives and coffeeprobably are also in the just
(20:18):
made for each other.
Yeah, it's probably becausewe're always just going, going,
going, and we need the energy toum to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Dude, I bet you've probably learned a ton between
the cameras and coffee and theuh here is their story about
other people.
What do you what are youlearning about yourself through
all this though?
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Um, you know, it's almost like like I I always say,
I'll I'll never go back toschool, uh, I'll never pay to do
that because I haveopportunities to connect with
people and learn from there.
Um, you know, and kind oflistening to what they do and
kind of how they see um the thething I like about cameras and
coffee is you're seeing theirperspective of the way that
(20:56):
they're approaching something.
So the the way that they taketheir photos or like how they
found their way into thatcreative field and kind of
listening like that.
Um for me, that just is uh anopportunity to see where they're
coming from, but then also kindof opens my eyes to maybe trying
something new or tryingsomething different, um, or just
(21:18):
kind of listening to theirstories and it becomes
motivation, the persistence ofjust trying and trying and
trying, or uh going back tosomething that may work.
So just kind of listening tothat, it's uh it's motivation, I
guess, in that way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but like photography has
never been like a lifelong dreamof yours.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
Um, I would say you're wrong.
Um, it's just I never knew thatfrom the beginning.
I would probably say I've kindof always wanted to get a
camera.
I just never really had a reasonto get a camera.
I've always thought it was kindof cool to take photos.
The nice thing is I had acamera, it was a cell phone.
Yeah, but I never really wantedto buy like one because it was
(21:59):
expensive, you know.
So then what's the breakingpoint?
Uh just one day we were I wasgoing to San Francisco to watch
the Lions um play the 49ers, andthere was an event in Detroit
where someone put a half pipe onthe Detroit Princess, which is
uh a river boat, and there was alot of Detroit famous
photographers around there, andI'm taking cell phone photos
(22:22):
that weren't great.
So I'm like, I'm just gonna buya camera.
This is an opportunity, I'mgonna go to San Francisco uh and
just kind of mess around withit.
Eventually, I look back at it,photography has been such an
influence in my life, not reallyknowing that if it's You know,
we shared this connection inwrestling that was really cool.
Uh, you know, and a lot ofcinematic photography happens
(22:44):
within wrestling.
I love music, music videos,album covers, all have some type
of still photography orvideography based in that.
Sports, love sports.
As a kid, sports illustrated,any of the magazines, basketball
cards, baseball cards, all hadphotos, you know, and looking
(23:07):
back at that, I was like, oh,this makes so much sense why I
love photography is because ofthe all the things that were
around me and how it kind ofhelped me shape who I am as a
person, really was based off ofphotography or videography.
You know, and I also lovemovies, you know, dramas or uh
even television shows, andthat's all, you know, video or
(23:30):
film-based uh stuff.
So that was kind of there.
So it was always there.
I just never realized, I neverrealized I had the opportunity
to create that type of stuff.
Like when movies are shot with alike a wide lens, I love that
because it shows there's so muchscenery, you know, for like even
here, like me and you.
I'm looking right at you.
We're the center of the frame,but there could be other things
(23:53):
that are in the background, youknow, like you have your album
covers over there.
That's really kind of cool tosee from a larger perspective,
or your guitar or the clockthat's all around us.
Um, but me and you are thecenter focus, but there's other
things around it, and it kind ofreally um tells a story with
(24:14):
what's happening between me andyou and where we're at.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
So it sounds like not only has it affected how you
watch movies, but it sounds likeit affects how you see.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Oh, I do.
No, I really I view the world uhin photography or like scenes,
like if I'm driving or I'mwalking, or you know, even uh
biking around, I I really viewthe world in like photos and
like the way people arepositioned and how I could have
like how you could frame thisand and those things like that.
(24:47):
And it's just an interesting wayof approaching the world, kind
of viewing the world at uh asphotography and moments, you
know.
Okay, so let's go back a littlebit.
What kind of kid were you?
What what did your world looklike growing up?
Um growing up, uh like I said,sports was a huge thing for me.
Music, I didn't skate, but Iloved the like the skate
(25:09):
culture.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
Um, you know, I was in, you know, we're I were you
think you're just maybe a littleolder.
I what you just turned 40.
I did, yeah.
Yeah, so 35.
Um, but yeah, that mid-90s, itwas just the type of music that
we were listening to.
We were the you know, sports wasuh a big thing, and wrestling
and all those like just kind ofplay a big part in who I am as a
(25:34):
person, and then it kind of likeshapes out to where I'm at now.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Did you ever kind of feel like that was a terrible
transition, but whatever.
Yeah, whatever.
Uh, did you ever kind of feellike there was something missing
before you really got your handson photography?
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Um, I was uh I would say what was missing was like
the purpose I had.
I know that sounds verydramatic, um, but I was just
kind of doing things.
I mean, I I I had a purpose.
Um, I really love the community.
I just think this really helpedme identify what my purpose was.
I was doing a lot of my work Iwas doing um after I graduated
(26:13):
college was within thecommunity, and this was my
opportunity to actually definecommunity, the people around me,
the creatives around me, anddoing that um was an opportunity
to broadcast that and kind ofshow the work I was doing or the
people I was hanging out with orthe friendships I've created,
(26:34):
and that was a way of tellingthat I didn't have a way to
broadcast my story, and my storywas able to be broadcasted
through the photos once I kindof realized that.
God, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:48):
Yeah.
Oh, totally off topic.
Did you see that spot with Mox?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
What the fuck was that?
SPEAKER_01 (26:56):
Uh I don't know, I don't know, man.
That was uh but A, it wasdangerous as can be.
Uh and then to be put on uhWednesday night was also kind of
bizarre.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh for anybody that doesn't knowwhat we're talking about, John
Moxley and AEW took a like a Idon't know, like a bat or
something with nails in it tothe back, and he just got stuck
in his back and couldn't get itout.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
They basically he got dropped onto it, and it's
like super dangerous, you know.
He could have been really uhparalyzed from as I was looking
more into it.
And the thing is, it was just ona uh Wednesday night.
Um, but yeah, I was just uh Whydo that?
I don't know.
Shock Factor, but is the shockfactor even kind of worth it,
you know?
Have we learned nothing from theending of Heels?
(27:42):
Oh, I have not uh I have notwatched that show.
Oh, well then I'm not gonnaOkay, don't I'm not gonna Here's
the thing, you're gonna love itand then it's gonna fucking
break your heart.
Okay, yeah.
I've watched three episodes sofar, I think, of it, and I just
haven't picked back up on it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
Dude, it's a lot better than I thought it was
gonna be.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Okay, yeah.
Um, but yeah, you know, for forme, like wrestling is the
storytelling, and I love thataspect of it.
But sometimes, yeah, just dumbthings happen.
Like that was not there was nopayoff, I think, on that.
Yeah.
I think the payoff was well, Imeant was the internet clips.
The internet clicks, yeah, yeah,I guess.
But you know, well, I'm gladhe's okay and not hurt because
(28:21):
that could have been really bad.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
I think I think with me getting older, I think that
was maybe one of the first timeswhere I was like, you didn't
need to do that shit.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Yeah, stuff like that does not need to happen.
And if it's gonna be happening,it really should be at an
important moment and like havesome type of payoff.
Um, because he even wound upwinning the match, so like what
was the point of that?
Yeah.
Yeah, hopefully they'll be ableto kind of grow from that and
kind of see like that.
But you know, they really try topush the envelope, and I guess
(28:48):
that's what what makes AEW AEWis that they're gonna push the
envelope, but sometimes pushingthe envelope is could go too far
sometimes.
Yeah.
Uh lucky enough this thing gottoo, too, too far.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
Uh, you've had a chance to get out and like
photograph some wrestlingevents, some like indie stuff,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Yeah, actually, uh well, even indie stuff, but I
had an opportunity uh whenSummerSlam came, I had an
opportunity to get a media pass.
So I had an opportunity to coverthat when it came in Detroit.
Yep.
Um, so I was able to cover itfor Visit Detroit.
So it was really cool because Igot the I actually had tickets
already with my college friends,and we we made a pack in
(29:28):
college.
Like, if we have an opportunityto go to WrestleMania or
SummerSlam, we're gonna do that.
So I actually, that was mysecond time going to SummerSlam.
I happened to be in Las Vegas uhrandomly for a trip when uh they
were there, and I so I wentbecause I'm like, okay, well,
this I may never have anotheropportunity to do.
Well, sure enough, they came toDetroit.
(29:49):
Um, we bought tickets, but thenI was able to make a pitch to
cover SummerSlam.
So that was really kind of coolon that aspect.
But yeah, I've got to do someindie stuff, um, some really
cool photos of game-changingwrestling at Harpo's.
Um shit.
Yeah, I just bought a ticket,and I'm like, fuck it.
(30:11):
I'm gonna bring my camera in,and if they say something, then
we'll go from there and kind offigure that out.
They didn't say anything, and soI got some really cool shots.
Macadona was wrestling, Rhino.
I forget even some of thewrestlers that were wrestling
from there.
One guy did uh um basically likea stage dive off of like the bar
(30:34):
onto the guy, and that wasreally cool because everyone
cleared out, so you have thisempty shot.
Um, also in that match, somechair shots, but the way the
spotlight is hitting him, thechair hits right off their head,
and you can just see the sweat.
Yeah, oh fuck yeah.
So those are some really coolphotos I got.
(30:55):
Um, I actually got to put thoseup in a in a show, so that was
really kind of cool.
And then my one college friend Imentioned that we went to
SummerSlam, he does um somelocal independent wrestling, and
so I got to kind of take somephotos through that.
So that's kind of a cool aspect,and you know, wrestling is so
storytelling and kind of presentthat halfway uh through that,
it's really kind of cool.
(31:15):
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
I am I am curious though, about about some of the
stuff maybe people don't see.
What's been your relationshipwith yourself, your own mental
health?
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Hmm.
Interesting.
That's uh interesting question.
Um, photography was somethingthat really created this sense
of belonging or sense of likeaccomplishment, and that's just
kind of just starting offposting them online.
And it's interesting becausethere's the I would say
ever-growing dilemma of socialmedia because sometimes it could
(31:49):
be really great, and sometimesit could be really challenging
because then you're starting tokind of compare yourself.
I really don't have too muchissues comparing myself.
I know this is my work, and Idon't want to try to emulate
someone else's work because thenthat goes away from being
authentic to myself.
(32:09):
I'm not saying it doesn't workfor other things, um you know,
there's always a challenge ofcomparing yourself and you know,
other ways like that.
Um, it's interesting sometimesyou'll post something that I
like that that's a really coolphoto, and you get like 20
likes.
Yeah, it at that stinks, butthen I realized at the end of
the day, it no one knows that.
Like, I don't think people lookat like, oh, someone has X
(32:32):
amount of likes.
I think we're the only ones thatreally look at like that.
It's uh you know, the algorithmand like they tell you to post
at a certain time, and then youdo that, and then it's like, oh
well, now you you know you haveto do this, you have to do that,
or they just keep moving thetarget, yeah.
And it's like it doesn't at theend of the day, it doesn't
really shouldn't really matterif you post something that you
(32:52):
like, then post it.
I don't know.
It's it's a it's an interestingaspect when it comes to mental
health, but for me, it's um areminder to continue to do that
because like when I don't feelgreat about myself mentally, or
you know, life is giving you alot of wrong turns.
Um just creating, if it's doingphotos or even you know, uh
(33:17):
drawing on my iPad or onProcreate, just you know, just
randomly drawing or watching amovie, the that creative
approach helps me recentermyself.
Everyone has their ownperspective of like what is good
art.
And for me, art is really goodwhen people have questions
behind that art.
(33:38):
That's I think is what makesreally good art.
Um, like what is happeningwithin this photo, or or like
what happened after this?
Like, those are some of thequestions.
Or, you know, if it's some othertype of art, it's like what is
going on?
Like, you know, abstractpainting.
I I really like abstractpainting because there's no
(33:58):
clear-cut answer of like what isit?
I love that.
Hey, uh anything else we shouldtalk about before we go topic
hopping.
Um no, let's do some topichopping.
All right.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
Um, I want to be a I want to beknown as a people connector.
I love that in connectingdifferent people.
I love um I love like if I can'tdo a job or do a gig, I can
(34:23):
refer to someone else, or if Ilove, hey, we're looking for a
graphic designer, and I'm like,oh, I know someone, and then
refer them to you.
Um and those type of things likethat.
So I want to be known as apeople connector.
Finish the thought.
Creativity requires your trueself.
Your approach to something comesfrom you from when you started
(34:43):
as a kid all the way up to now,and you're really taking things
that you enjoy or you've learnedfrom yourself and applying it to
your art.
Um, I think that makes it sounique and so you.
Um, and again, as I mentionedthroughout this podcast, if you
shift away from that, it doesn'tuh improve your art, it actually
(35:04):
kind of limits the art and theability to be creative.
What would your last meal be?
A large New York style pizza,cheese and pepperoni, a Greek
salad, a Coke Slurpee with somecherry uh top on top of it,
cherry slush, uh a slice ofcheesecake, and then probably uh
(35:31):
a Snickers ice cream bar.
Yeah, fuck it, dude.
Those are so good.
Yeah, that'll probably be it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:38):
Um what's the best or worst advice that you've ever
received?
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
I've someone told me this, and this is uh super
important.
But your network is your networth.
So the people you interesting,the people you know become your
net worth.
So it's like making thoseconnections with people.
You just never know.
Like again, we've you know whatthis has been what probably
(36:03):
five, six years that we've knowneach other and it started
through someone else, andeventually, you know, we've had
opportunities to talk wrestling,we've had opportunities to do
each other's programs that wehave.
Um and I think that becomes sovaluable.
Yeah, I think that is thebiggest takeaway because
everyone wants to, you know, getsomething out of life, and I
(36:24):
think getting connections withother people is so important.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Uh what's a small everyday thing that brings you
joy?
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
Again, I think this is it's very cliche or it's a
very simple answer for me, butit's viewing the world uh
through photos.
You know, I I have anopportunity to see scenes or see
people interact.
Um, it's interesting becauseagain, I never went to school
for photography, but I kind ofdid, and then I'm not realizing
(36:53):
it because I I majored insociology, and that's the study
of people.
Um, so that's probably why Ilove photography.
Oh man, the math is just addingup.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's why I probably loveviewing the world that way and
like having interactions withpeople.
Um, and it's sometimes you know,people are having the best day
of their life, and some peopleare having the worst day of
their lives, sometimes you don'teven know.
(37:14):
Yeah, um, but I love seeing theworld like that.
Uh what are you listening toright now?
Hmm.
Uh song out here, Cordier Brokeas fuck.
That was a song that I played onthe way out here that reminds me
of that.
But I take a lot of my music andI love attaching photos to that
(37:36):
or different art towards that.
Um, generally I am mostly hiphop and then a good mix of hard
rock or metal is probably mybiggest thing, and then also
some alternative rock areprobably my three pillars of
music.
SPEAKER_02 (37:55):
Dude, I love that you're experiencing photography
as a uh multi-sensory thing.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Oh, yeah.
I mean it's definitely is, youknow, uh to me it is.
Uh it's um, you know, I'm sureyou could pair it up with food
or I don't know.
I think that's it's like theworld's unlimited, basically,
when you start to kind of pairup photos, because you know,
even you know, I was mentionedfood, but if you look at a
cookbook, those are photos thatare associated, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (38:21):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
Um, like that are.
Uh give me a song.
We're gonna make a playlist.
Oh, a song.
We'll do a little shuffle on theplaylist I had out here.
It this one popped up.
It's keep it gangster by youngjeezy.
Done.
Yep.
That's an interesting causebecause that's like right when I
kind of graduated high school,and that was kind of uh opening
(38:42):
up of the the creativity flow.
Is uh you start to kind ofcreate yourself as I was
graduating high school goinginto college, you just become
this new person.
Yeah.
And uh I don't know, it's aninteresting song that that just
randomly popped up becausethat's kind of the the birth uh
the of the creative growth.
God, I love that.
Um do you have any regrets?
(39:03):
I would say one regret was notstudying abroad in college,
would be probably uh a thing.
But I didn't I just didn't havethe opportunity or the financial
capital to go do that.
But I really had an opportunityto graduate college and then to
go explore the world that wayafter.
(39:23):
So um that was a regret at thetime.
Um, but it kind of gave memotivation to take advantage of
uh other opportunities that Ihad going forward.
Okay, man.
Last question for you.
Are you okay?
I feel okay, I really do.
Um, but it's important to framethings in a good perspective.
Um, so that is just a reminderto do that is frame life in a
(39:46):
perspective where you don't getyourself drained out because you
can really focus so much oneverything that's negatively
happening, and like I said,don't forget about it, but don't
spend all your time doing thatbecause you just don't become
the person that can who youshould be because you're gonna
be so drained out and you're notgonna be able to help when you
(40:09):
become too drained out.
Man, your your perspective andyour optimism is refreshing.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
So thanks for bringing that over.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Yeah, no problem.
Remember, frame stuff, frame,frame, frame life like that.
Um before we go, where canpeople find you?
Uh if you go to Instagram,S-A-P, my last name of
Millington, soM-I-L-L-I-N-G-T-O-N on
Instagram, and then my websiteis millingtonmedia.com.
(40:38):
Uh, those are probably the twospots to find me.
Love it.
Okay.
All right, dude.
You want to get out of here?
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (40:44):
Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my
head.
I can't seem to make them goaway.
SPEAKER_02 (40:52):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Aaron McCall,
and co-hosted by photographerJoe Madison.
Used to kiss noises by Mikemaintenance the branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you did your podcast.
I see someone real quick.
I want to take the portrait.
Right then, I don't want to givethem any time to think, what do
I need to do?
Because to me, that kind ofruins it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:04):
Hey everybody, welcome back to Bad Idea Social
Club Rewind.
My name is Aaron McCall.
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
And I'm Joe Madison.
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Earlier this year, February, we lost a friend and
an important member of thecreative scene and the community
around Bad Idea Social Club.
So today we're going to revisitmy conversation with
Detroit-based photographer ScottMillington.
(01:32):
Scott saw his camera as a meansto meet new people, connect, and
document the moments that makelife vibrant and good.
Listening back feels good.
(01:58):
Like I can I can picture themoment when he pulled out his
camera and photographed me whilewe were recording.
Just because you never know.
SPEAKER_04 (02:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
But as much as I love that I have this like
recorded and easy to access forme, I think what I value most
are the conversations and textmessages and photo walks that
weren't recorded, the ones thatwere just for us, the ones that
I really got to know Scott.
(02:36):
And I do I do want to say thatif if you knew Scott personally,
um just know that hearing hisvoice might hit a little harder
than you'd expect, uh, becauseit did for me.
Yeah.
Um, so please take care ofyourself and do what's best for
you.
But uh for me, I needed it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
Yeah.
The memory I have of Scott is solike brief, uh, but it it really
was impactful.
It was at the art market, and heI was talking to him, I was
like, dude, I've been looking toum go on a photo walk with you
for a while.
I've been looking to reach outand just like offer whenever
it's available.
I'd love to do that.
And I told him, I was like, I'mjust like super nervous about
(03:16):
it.
And the way his eye contact andface changed, he just looked at
me, he was just like, Why?
Like that process was so notabout just like being
photographer, showing what wecan do.
It was so much more just abouttwo humans connecting and doing
something that they lovetogether.
And I'm I would be lying if Isaid I haven't thought about
that interaction every once in awhile, ever since that day.
(03:39):
Um so I do think he had a reallyunique way of connecting with
people.
Don't forget sorry.
Before we dive in, don't forgetto follow wherever you're
listening.
Leave a five-star review.
Don't forget to tell yourfriends, and please take care of
yourselves.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Also, this thing does run off of uh merch sales
and listener support and review.
So please help us out.
Go do all that fun stuff.
And here is my conversation withScott Millington, real AF, uh,
season five, episode six.
Swearing on this or what?
(04:14):
Yeah, you can do whatever youwant.
Go ahead and put your uh putyour headphones on, see how
things feel.
Dude, I don't know.
We've gotten to know each otherpretty good over the last year.
Yeah, what was uh two years?
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Um it's longer than that.
I feel like uh before pandemic.
Do you have any idea how wecross paths?
Because I don't.
I think it's uh through Becky.
Oh, yeah.
I think that's what most popularwas.
Yeah, and I probably saw thatyou were posting wrestling
content.
And then that was it.
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting becausewe have wrestling and then we
have beer, creative stuff,creative stuff, but the like
(04:44):
wrestling and the beer industryare earlier probably the two
that's pillars.
SPEAKER_02 (04:48):
That's too many things not to just hang on to.
Yeah.
So especially like especiallymeeting like another wrestling
fan who's not a piece of shit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Well, I was just actually talking to my wrestling
friend on the way out, and uhyeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm
hanging out with my wrestlingfriend that's not part of our
group, which there's not many ofthat, you know, like that.
SPEAKER_02 (05:09):
So um yeah, I think the first time we met was I came
out to Detroit for a wrestlingshow and then met up with you
the next day to do the Here IsTheir Story thing.
SPEAKER_01 (05:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did that, and then we did uh acouple photos.
Uh one of my favorite photosI've that we took on that one
was the it was just anaccidental snap, and you were
like looking down and you'rekind of out of focus.
It was that black eyed.
I know that photo.
SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
I love that photo.
And like, dude, I was so stokedto be photographed by you
because there's like thisrawness, there's this
authenticity to it, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
Like, I don't know, is like is is photo journalism
kind of a fair I would just saylike documenting the moment is
my favorite way of uh describingmy my style.
I love that.
Um I want the authentic realityof the photo being there, and
capturing those moments whenpeople are being themselves is
the ideal way of getting thosephotos.
(06:01):
So having conversations whileI'm snapping the photos um is a
great way to make that personreally loose and be themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (06:09):
Um well here, kind of explain the concept of here's
their story for anybody thatmight not know.
SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Yeah, that was probably my first project that I
had based on photography.
A lot of times it was just goingout in a shoot, and then so I
came up with this idea for forhere's their story because of
like during COVID, I just didn'thave anything that really kept
me motivated.
So I really wanted to try tocapture people's stories through
(06:36):
photos, so hence here's theirstory.
And it started off with a couplefriends and eventually it kind
of got adventurous and askingother people that I saw them
being really creative out thereand I didn't really know their
story, so I wanted to kind oftell that through photos.
Um first person I actuallyreached out to that I didn't
(06:57):
really know was a coffee ownerand she was also a photographer,
so I figured I would ask her andshe would probably say yes
because she was a photographer.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
Um so yeah, that kind of blossomed, and
eventually I was doing it twotimes a week and eventually kind
of got burnt out.
Sure.
And it was just kind of aproject where I think I just
kind of fizzled out.
Something that I would love torestart, maybe in a different
aspect if it's still doing thephotos, but then tying it in
with something different.
But it's kind of a project thatI kind of just put off the off
(07:29):
the side, and eventually, youknow, doing that, I kind of had
an opportunity to do it withyou.
So it was kind of cool to openup some creative doors through
that.
Um, and it's always a project Ican always go back to.
SPEAKER_02 (07:40):
Well, I was gonna ask you about that.
That you're probably meeting allkinds of fucking characters.
SPEAKER_01 (07:43):
Yeah, yeah.
It was cool because I thinkeventually, like we mentioned
earlier, Becky was one of thepersons that um that we had an
opportunity to kind of do.
So it's like when you talk toone person and then kind of show
their story, then they share it,and then eventually your work
gets shown to their network, andthen even vice versa, their work
(08:05):
gets shown to my network when Iget to do that.
So it's kind of cool, you know.
Some people were, for example,for yourself, graphic designers,
um, candle makers, people thatwere in the food industry, you
know, beer people.
I had an opportunity to do oneuh with a local uh brewer out in
Detroit and kind of got toseeing the the process of the
(08:27):
beer being made and then kind ofjust showing their own
creativity way into that.
So that was just kind of thatavenue.
I had an opportunity to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
You know, it's kind of funny.
I I love the photos that youtook of me.
My only issue is that I think itwas the like the day before,
maybe two days before, I had afucking root canal.
Oh really?
Yeah, so like if I whatever, ifif if I've posted any, I've I've
kind of brought in my fuckingswollen cheek a little bit.
(08:55):
Oh it's like I'm sure nobodyelse is like.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
I'm noticing nobody else probably even knew that
because like I don't think Ieven remember that or even saw
that like that.
So but it's as funny assometimes.
unknown (09:06):
It doesn't work.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
I think that's like the cool part with like some of
these photos, at least formyself, um, is like when I take
them, they're always like kindof associated with like a time
or a period or a memory or uhdifferent things like that.
And it's like for me, I thinkprobably I probably say like the
birth of as being a photographerwas 2018, probably late 2018,
getting that camera, and you cansee the growth over time, but
(09:31):
just like certain periodsassociate it with certain
photos, and um that's the kindof cool aspect like that.
And it's like for you, you it'slike when you see those photos,
it's like nope, the root canal.
Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Do you ever go back and kind of uh revisit those
different periods or kind oflook at your growth?
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
Uh yeah, it's usually when it's surrounded
around when I get to pick photosfor a photo show or from
submitting something along thelines of that.
Um, so that's kind of cool tosee the growth because sometimes
we're like, ooh, what was Idoing during this time for these
photos?
But then you look back at it andyou're like, oh man, these were
some really, really good photos.
Um last year, uh 2024, actuallyright around this time, uh, did
(10:12):
a show.
The topic was birds.
I don't know.
I got to the point where I'mlike, okay, I'm gonna do a whole
show about birds.
But that was really cool becauseit had photos right from the
beginning when I bought my firstcamera.
Uh, so I had some photos fromthen all the way to basically
present time when that showhappened.
And it was kind of cool to seethe growth in different spots.
(10:32):
Like, you know, I think I hadNew York photos, I had San
Francisco photos, a lot,obviously, here in Detroit.
Um, but yeah, it was kind ofcool to see the growth, and that
was kind of a cool way of doingthat.
My photography work is kind ofjust documenting in the moment,
like what's happening,essentially it's just kind of
documenting my life or likewhat's ex happening during that
(10:52):
time.
Yeah.
Um, and that's really cool forthat, because then that just
shows that these are my photos.
But even when if I'm someone'sbringing me on to go do some
photography work, I really wantto capture what's happening at
that um that moment.
So setting up like stage photosis kind of more of a challenging
thing for me.
Um, so but if someone brings meon to do a client work, it's
(11:13):
like, okay, I need to capture itmy way.
I'm gonna have to, you know, doit as raw and authentic as
possible.
And obviously, if we need tocapture something that's staged,
we'll do it in a way um thatdoesn't suck.
Or just for me, that's just notmy style.
And you can kind of tell, likeit feels forced, and I don't
(11:36):
want to feel that forced on myend because if it feels forced
on my end, then it's gonnabecome you know, that subject is
gonna be feeling forced.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Well, and like as again, as a subject of yours, um
I kind of felt this like instantkind of connection, just very,
very comfortable uh with youkind of behind the camera.
Um is that like a consciousthing?
Um, are you kind of puttingyourself out there to make
people feel a little morecomfortable, or is it just your
demeanor or I would say probablyboth.
SPEAKER_01 (12:05):
Um, for me, I'm just like very curious.
I mean, we had a little umopportunity to kind of know each
other um through you knowchatting on you know social
media um and having those kindof connections, but for me, you
know, breaking that ice and kindof making feel people real
comfortable is super important,especially if you have a big
giant camera lens like in yourface, yeah, you know, and then
(12:27):
you don't know, you know, it'salways the Ricky Bobby moment.
I don't know what to do with myhands.
So those stories or thoseconversations I can have with
someone really makes them feelloose.
And I know I've been on theother end of the camera and I've
been trying to take photos, andyou feel so stiff, yeah.
You don't want to feel that waybecause that just seems not
(12:49):
natural.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
And you know, once you get into that natural state
of being, that really capturesthe moment for me.
What do you kind of have to giveof yourself to kind of capture
those moments, though?
For me, it's just like beingimmersed into that situation.
So if it's you know working witha client or taking photos of
someone for something that we'redesigning to do, it's being in
(13:11):
that moment.
But then when I'm outdocumenting at a parade or at an
event, I'm within that moment.
Um, I want to kind of createthat point of view from that
aspect of like what's happening.
So for me, um, if I'm doing aconcert, I want to present it as
like what a fan would see, or ifI'm at a sporting event, it's
(13:34):
like what the fan is seeing inthat.
Um, so that's the angle I'mshooting or the perspective I'm
shooting at provides a reallygood way of doing that.
And using the framing and allthat type of stuff can really
show that.
And to me, that is documentingthe moment.
Um, it's not doing that, even ifI'm doing some of the portraits
(13:56):
that I do, it's environmentalportraits.
But it's like I see someone realquick, I want to take the
portrait right then.
I don't want to give them anytime to think, what do I need to
do?
Because to me, that kind ofruins it.
There's two spots that I couldthink of when it comes to
portraits that I love doing.
It's my NFL uh lions tailgatephotos.
(14:19):
It was when I see something,that moment, I want that photo.
So if they're grilling somethingand they have that spatula that
way, I want that photo, thatmoment.
And another one is when I go tomovement, it's uh a music
festival in Detroit, and peopleare just decked out in the
nines, and you know that theywant their photos, but I love if
(14:40):
they have something like there'sthis one photo I have.
She's sipping on a lemonade andit's light green uh and yellow,
and she had an outfit that wasjust matching herself, and she
was sipping on the straw.
It was actually a pink straw,too, and she had pink hair.
And I'm like, this is the momentI want right then.
And she like put her drink down.
I'm like, no, no, no.
(15:00):
I need the drink to tie thewhole photo together.
So those are what I want is inthat moment, like type of things
like that, and people feel socomfortable.
I don't know what it is.
I just over time just taking myphotos.
That's the style that Ideveloped, and to me, I feel so
comfortable doing that.
Um, but because if I didn't havethe camera, I couldn't tell that
(15:21):
person to go do that again.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Well, I was gonna say, I've seen you walk up to
people and just say, hey, I'mgonna blah blah blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:26):
Yeah.
And I like, like, where doesthat where does that come from?
Um I don't know.
It's just like photography wasthe first thing that I felt
really, really good at, andpeople would say, like, your
work is really good.
Like, people have always toldme, like, oh, you're good at
this, but it just didn't feel tome that I was really good at
(15:47):
that.
Photography, there's somethingthat just really clicked right
at that moment.
I can't, I could think of maybetwo or three moments um at the
beginning where it kind of justfelt natural.
And then I'm like, okay, let'sjust do this.
I don't really ever get rejecteduh for a photo.
And if they do, if they say no,then hey, I'll just move on to
(16:11):
the next one.
Um, you know, and that just kindof built my confidence up, you
know, as a photographer, butalso in life and as a creative,
it just really felt comfortable.
And I'm like, okay, now I couldbranch out and do things.
Because at the end of the day,if someone says no, it's not not
a big deal.
You just move on to the nextthing and do it.
(16:32):
What were some of those momentsyou were talking about a few
minutes ago?
A couple of the Black LivesMatter uh protests were some of
the opportunities I had todocument like what was
happening, such an interestingmoment in time that those photos
probably will, you know, we'regonna live forever, and then
just kind of starting to do alot of Detroit things that were
(16:56):
like pop-ups based on food, um,and then just taking moments of
my friends and what they weredoing.
That was where kind of just likewhere everything kind of really
clicked of like, okay, I'm justgonna start taking photos of
like what's happening in lifeand just kind of led me to go
get adventurous and go to dodifferent things.
(17:17):
And now it's when I go to a lotof events, it's because I have
my camera and I really want topresent what is happening.
Uh, because who knows, thatevent may never happen again, or
that you know, something reallycool happens at an event, and
I've had these photos that I canpresent for the rest of my life
as my work.
SPEAKER_02 (17:34):
Detroit is special.
I grew up kind of near there,and man, what does it feel like
to be able to like step back andlike call yourself a Detroit
artist?
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Um, I think it's really cool, and like I said, I
like to present what's happeningin Detroit because there's just
so much that's happening.
Being an artist can be anythingif it's someone that's you know
brewing beer, if they are achef, if they are drawing with a
pencil, if they're painting, um,even gardening.
(18:05):
Um, so that's really cool.
And I love to present what ishappening in Detroit or Metro
Detroit or just in general, andwith my camera I can do that,
and um really puts a spotlighton other people and broadcasts
like what they got going on.
So if they have a new restaurantthat's opening, or if it's for
(18:26):
me, coffee, I love documentingcoffee shops and what is
happening in these third spaces,um, is really cool.
Um, unfortunately, over timeI've seen places really shut
down or they've had to movelocations, and it's sad, but I
have these photos that'll liveforever, um, and I can always
(18:48):
post them and share them withpeople, and like I caught these
moments there.
Dude, what what is it aboutphotographers and coffee?
Um What do you think that is?
I I don't know.
I could tell you my myconnection of coffee and
photography.
So I have uh another series, Ido cameras and coffee.
Um, so I meet up with acreative, um, we get a cup of
(19:11):
coffee, or I get a cup ofcoffee.
Um, some people actually don'tlike coffee, which I view them
as being strange.
But hey, I view them as beingstrange, but no judgment.
Um, but yeah, so we get up anopportunity to grab coffee and
kind of see their creativeapproach.
Eventually it's blossomed to atsome point in the last count, I
(19:31):
think I've done it with about150 people.
SPEAKER_04 (19:33):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Um, so last year in 2024, it had a a show um that
kind of recapped all theadventures I had.
Um, so all the portraits I tookof people was actually put onto
onto a wall, and then I had anopportunity to show photos from
that series I did, and then Iopened it up to people to show
(19:57):
their photos or their creativework.
So I had a mini gallery of theirwork inside of my gallery.
So that was really kind of cool.
And I through that I've metthere's a lot of coffee and
camera people, um, but I can'ttell you why um they're
connected.
Um, I don't know.
I think creatives and coffeeprobably are also in the just
(20:18):
made for each other.
Yeah, it's probably becausewe're always just going, going,
going, and we need the energy toum to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Dude, I bet you've probably learned a ton between
the cameras and coffee and theuh here is their story about
other people.
What do you what are youlearning about yourself through
all this though?
SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Um, you know, it's almost like like I I always say,
I'll I'll never go back toschool, uh, I'll never pay to do
that because I haveopportunities to connect with
people and learn from there.
Um, you know, and kind oflistening to what they do and
kind of how they see um the thething I like about cameras and
coffee is you're seeing theirperspective of the way that
(20:56):
they're approaching something.
So the the way that they taketheir photos or like how they
found their way into thatcreative field and kind of
listening like that.
Um for me, that just is uh anopportunity to see where they're
coming from, but then also kindof opens my eyes to maybe trying
something new or tryingsomething different, um, or just
(21:18):
kind of listening to theirstories and it becomes
motivation, the persistence ofjust trying and trying and
trying, or uh going back tosomething that may work.
So just kind of listening tothat, it's uh it's motivation, I
guess, in that way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but like photography has
never been like a lifelong dreamof yours.
SPEAKER_01 (21:36):
Um, I would say you're wrong.
Um, it's just I never knew thatfrom the beginning.
I would probably say I've kindof always wanted to get a
camera.
I just never really had a reasonto get a camera.
I've always thought it was kindof cool to take photos.
The nice thing is I had acamera, it was a cell phone.
Yeah, but I never really wantedto buy like one because it was
(21:59):
expensive, you know.
So then what's the breakingpoint?
Uh just one day we were I wasgoing to San Francisco to watch
the Lions um play the 49ers, andthere was an event in Detroit
where someone put a half pipe onthe Detroit Princess, which is
uh a river boat, and there was alot of Detroit famous
photographers around there, andI'm taking cell phone photos
(22:22):
that weren't great.
So I'm like, I'm just gonna buya camera.
This is an opportunity, I'mgonna go to San Francisco uh and
just kind of mess around withit.
Eventually, I look back at it,photography has been such an
influence in my life, not reallyknowing that if it's You know,
we shared this connection inwrestling that was really cool.
Uh, you know, and a lot ofcinematic photography happens
(22:44):
within wrestling.
I love music, music videos,album covers, all have some type
of still photography orvideography based in that.
Sports, love sports.
As a kid, sports illustrated,any of the magazines, basketball
cards, baseball cards, all hadphotos, you know, and looking
(23:07):
back at that, I was like, oh,this makes so much sense why I
love photography is because ofthe all the things that were
around me and how it kind ofhelped me shape who I am as a
person, really was based off ofphotography or videography.
You know, and I also lovemovies, you know, dramas or uh
even television shows, andthat's all, you know, video or
(23:30):
film-based uh stuff.
So that was kind of there.
So it was always there.
I just never realized, I neverrealized I had the opportunity
to create that type of stuff.
Like when movies are shot with alike a wide lens, I love that
because it shows there's so muchscenery, you know, for like even
here, like me and you.
I'm looking right at you.
We're the center of the frame,but there could be other things
(23:53):
that are in the background, youknow, like you have your album
covers over there.
That's really kind of cool tosee from a larger perspective,
or your guitar or the clockthat's all around us.
Um, but me and you are thecenter focus, but there's other
things around it, and it kind ofreally um tells a story with
(24:14):
what's happening between me andyou and where we're at.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
So it sounds like not only has it affected how you
watch movies, but it sounds likeit affects how you see.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Oh, I do.
No, I really I view the world uhin photography or like scenes,
like if I'm driving or I'mwalking, or you know, even uh
biking around, I I really viewthe world in like photos and
like the way people arepositioned and how I could have
like how you could frame thisand and those things like that.
(24:47):
And it's just an interesting wayof approaching the world, kind
of viewing the world at uh asphotography and moments, you
know.
Okay, so let's go back a littlebit.
What kind of kid were you?
What what did your world looklike growing up?
Um growing up, uh like I said,sports was a huge thing for me.
Music, I didn't skate, but Iloved the like the skate
(25:09):
culture.
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
Um, you know, I was in, you know, we're I were you
think you're just maybe a littleolder.
I what you just turned 40.
I did, yeah.
Yeah, so 35.
Um, but yeah, that mid-90s, itwas just the type of music that
we were listening to.
We were the you know, sports wasuh a big thing, and wrestling
and all those like just kind ofplay a big part in who I am as a
(25:34):
person, and then it kind of likeshapes out to where I'm at now.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Did you ever kind of feel like that was a terrible
transition, but whatever.
Yeah, whatever.
Uh, did you ever kind of feellike there was something missing
before you really got your handson photography?
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Um, I was uh I would say what was missing was like
the purpose I had.
I know that sounds verydramatic, um, but I was just
kind of doing things.
I mean, I I I had a purpose.
Um, I really love the community.
I just think this really helpedme identify what my purpose was.
I was doing a lot of my work Iwas doing um after I graduated
(26:13):
college was within thecommunity, and this was my
opportunity to actually definecommunity, the people around me,
the creatives around me, anddoing that um was an opportunity
to broadcast that and kind ofshow the work I was doing or the
people I was hanging out with orthe friendships I've created,
(26:34):
and that was a way of tellingthat I didn't have a way to
broadcast my story, and my storywas able to be broadcasted
through the photos once I kindof realized that.
God, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:48):
Yeah.
Oh, totally off topic.
Did you see that spot with Mox?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
What the fuck was that?
SPEAKER_01 (26:56):
Uh I don't know, I don't know, man.
That was uh but A, it wasdangerous as can be.
Uh and then to be put on uhWednesday night was also kind of
bizarre.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh for anybody that doesn't knowwhat we're talking about, John
Moxley and AEW took a like a Idon't know, like a bat or
something with nails in it tothe back, and he just got stuck
in his back and couldn't get itout.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
They basically he got dropped onto it, and it's
like super dangerous, you know.
He could have been really uhparalyzed from as I was looking
more into it.
And the thing is, it was just ona uh Wednesday night.
Um, but yeah, I was just uh Whydo that?
I don't know.
Shock Factor, but is the shockfactor even kind of worth it,
you know?
Have we learned nothing from theending of Heels?
(27:42):
Oh, I have not uh I have notwatched that show.
Oh, well then I'm not gonnaOkay, don't I'm not gonna Here's
the thing, you're gonna love itand then it's gonna fucking
break your heart.
Okay, yeah.
I've watched three episodes sofar, I think, of it, and I just
haven't picked back up on it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
Dude, it's a lot better than I thought it was
gonna be.
SPEAKER_01 (27:58):
Okay, yeah.
Um, but yeah, you know, for forme, like wrestling is the
storytelling, and I love thataspect of it.
But sometimes, yeah, just dumbthings happen.
Like that was not there was nopayoff, I think, on that.
Yeah.
I think the payoff was well, Imeant was the internet clips.
The internet clicks, yeah, yeah,I guess.
But you know, well, I'm gladhe's okay and not hurt because
(28:21):
that could have been really bad.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
I think I think with me getting older, I think that
was maybe one of the first timeswhere I was like, you didn't
need to do that shit.
SPEAKER_01 (28:28):
Yeah, stuff like that does not need to happen.
And if it's gonna be happening,it really should be at an
important moment and like havesome type of payoff.
Um, because he even wound upwinning the match, so like what
was the point of that?
Yeah.
Yeah, hopefully they'll be ableto kind of grow from that and
kind of see like that.
But you know, they really try topush the envelope, and I guess
(28:48):
that's what what makes AEW AEWis that they're gonna push the
envelope, but sometimes pushingthe envelope is could go too far
sometimes.
Yeah.
Uh lucky enough this thing gottoo, too, too far.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
Uh, you've had a chance to get out and like
photograph some wrestlingevents, some like indie stuff,
right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Yeah, actually, uh well, even indie stuff, but I
had an opportunity uh whenSummerSlam came, I had an
opportunity to get a media pass.
So I had an opportunity to coverthat when it came in Detroit.
Yep.
Um, so I was able to cover itfor Visit Detroit.
So it was really cool because Igot the I actually had tickets
already with my college friends,and we we made a pack in
(29:28):
college.
Like, if we have an opportunityto go to WrestleMania or
SummerSlam, we're gonna do that.
So I actually, that was mysecond time going to SummerSlam.
I happened to be in Las Vegas uhrandomly for a trip when uh they
were there, and I so I wentbecause I'm like, okay, well,
this I may never have anotheropportunity to do.
Well, sure enough, they came toDetroit.
(29:49):
Um, we bought tickets, but thenI was able to make a pitch to
cover SummerSlam.
So that was really kind of coolon that aspect.
But yeah, I've got to do someindie stuff, um, some really
cool photos of game-changingwrestling at Harpo's.
Um shit.
Yeah, I just bought a ticket,and I'm like, fuck it.
(30:11):
I'm gonna bring my camera in,and if they say something, then
we'll go from there and kind offigure that out.
They didn't say anything, and soI got some really cool shots.
Macadona was wrestling, Rhino.
I forget even some of thewrestlers that were wrestling
from there.
One guy did uh um basically likea stage dive off of like the bar
(30:34):
onto the guy, and that wasreally cool because everyone
cleared out, so you have thisempty shot.
Um, also in that match, somechair shots, but the way the
spotlight is hitting him, thechair hits right off their head,
and you can just see the sweat.
Yeah, oh fuck yeah.
So those are some really coolphotos I got.
(30:55):
Um, I actually got to put thoseup in a in a show, so that was
really kind of cool.
And then my one college friend Imentioned that we went to
SummerSlam, he does um somelocal independent wrestling, and
so I got to kind of take somephotos through that.
So that's kind of a cool aspect,and you know, wrestling is so
storytelling and kind of presentthat halfway uh through that,
it's really kind of cool.
(31:15):
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
I am I am curious though, about about some of the
stuff maybe people don't see.
What's been your relationshipwith yourself, your own mental
health?
SPEAKER_01 (31:26):
Hmm.
Interesting.
That's uh interesting question.
Um, photography was somethingthat really created this sense
of belonging or sense of likeaccomplishment, and that's just
kind of just starting offposting them online.
And it's interesting becausethere's the I would say
ever-growing dilemma of socialmedia because sometimes it could
(31:49):
be really great, and sometimesit could be really challenging
because then you're starting tokind of compare yourself.
I really don't have too muchissues comparing myself.
I know this is my work, and Idon't want to try to emulate
someone else's work because thenthat goes away from being
authentic to myself.
(32:09):
I'm not saying it doesn't workfor other things, um you know,
there's always a challenge ofcomparing yourself and you know,
other ways like that.
Um, it's interesting sometimesyou'll post something that I
like that that's a really coolphoto, and you get like 20
likes.
Yeah, it at that stinks, butthen I realized at the end of
the day, it no one knows that.
Like, I don't think people lookat like, oh, someone has X
(32:32):
amount of likes.
I think we're the only ones thatreally look at like that.
It's uh you know, the algorithmand like they tell you to post
at a certain time, and then youdo that, and then it's like, oh
well, now you you know you haveto do this, you have to do that,
or they just keep moving thetarget, yeah.
And it's like it doesn't at theend of the day, it doesn't
really shouldn't really matterif you post something that you
(32:52):
like, then post it.
I don't know.
It's it's a it's an interestingaspect when it comes to mental
health, but for me, it's um areminder to continue to do that
because like when I don't feelgreat about myself mentally, or
you know, life is giving you alot of wrong turns.
Um just creating, if it's doingphotos or even you know, uh
(33:17):
drawing on my iPad or onProcreate, just you know, just
randomly drawing or watching amovie, the that creative
approach helps me recentermyself.
Everyone has their ownperspective of like what is good
art.
And for me, art is really goodwhen people have questions
behind that art.
(33:38):
That's I think is what makesreally good art.
Um, like what is happeningwithin this photo, or or like
what happened after this?
Like, those are some of thequestions.
Or, you know, if it's some othertype of art, it's like what is
going on?
Like, you know, abstractpainting.
I I really like abstractpainting because there's no
(33:58):
clear-cut answer of like what isit?
I love that.
Hey, uh anything else we shouldtalk about before we go topic
hopping.
Um no, let's do some topichopping.
All right.
When you're gone, what do youhope people say about you?
Um, I want to be a I want to beknown as a people connector.
I love that in connectingdifferent people.
I love um I love like if I can'tdo a job or do a gig, I can
(34:23):
refer to someone else, or if Ilove, hey, we're looking for a
graphic designer, and I'm like,oh, I know someone, and then
refer them to you.
Um and those type of things likethat.
So I want to be known as apeople connector.
Finish the thought.
Creativity requires your trueself.
Your approach to something comesfrom you from when you started
(34:43):
as a kid all the way up to now,and you're really taking things
that you enjoy or you've learnedfrom yourself and applying it to
your art.
Um, I think that makes it sounique and so you.
Um, and again, as I mentionedthroughout this podcast, if you
shift away from that, it doesn'tuh improve your art, it actually
(35:04):
kind of limits the art and theability to be creative.
What would your last meal be?
A large New York style pizza,cheese and pepperoni, a Greek
salad, a Coke Slurpee with somecherry uh top on top of it,
cherry slush, uh a slice ofcheesecake, and then probably uh
(35:31):
a Snickers ice cream bar.
Yeah, fuck it, dude.
Those are so good.
Yeah, that'll probably be it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:38):
Um what's the best or worst advice that you've ever
received?
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
I've someone told me this, and this is uh super
important.
But your network is your networth.
So the people you interesting,the people you know become your
net worth.
So it's like making thoseconnections with people.
You just never know.
Like again, we've you know whatthis has been what probably
(36:03):
five, six years that we've knowneach other and it started
through someone else, andeventually, you know, we've had
opportunities to talk wrestling,we've had opportunities to do
each other's programs that wehave.
Um and I think that becomes sovaluable.
Yeah, I think that is thebiggest takeaway because
everyone wants to, you know, getsomething out of life, and I
(36:24):
think getting connections withother people is so important.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Uh what's a small everyday thing that brings you
joy?
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
Again, I think this is it's very cliche or it's a
very simple answer for me, butit's viewing the world uh
through photos.
You know, I I have anopportunity to see scenes or see
people interact.
Um, it's interesting becauseagain, I never went to school
for photography, but I kind ofdid, and then I'm not realizing
(36:53):
it because I I majored insociology, and that's the study
of people.
Um, so that's probably why Ilove photography.
Oh man, the math is just addingup.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's why I probably loveviewing the world that way and
like having interactions withpeople.
Um, and it's sometimes you know,people are having the best day
of their life, and some peopleare having the worst day of
their lives, sometimes you don'teven know.
(37:14):
Yeah, um, but I love seeing theworld like that.
Uh what are you listening toright now?
Hmm.
Uh song out here, Cordier Brokeas fuck.
That was a song that I played onthe way out here that reminds me
of that.
But I take a lot of my music andI love attaching photos to that
(37:36):
or different art towards that.
Um, generally I am mostly hiphop and then a good mix of hard
rock or metal is probably mybiggest thing, and then also
some alternative rock areprobably my three pillars of
music.
SPEAKER_02 (37:55):
Dude, I love that you're experiencing photography
as a uh multi-sensory thing.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Oh, yeah.
I mean it's definitely is, youknow, uh to me it is.
Uh it's um, you know, I'm sureyou could pair it up with food
or I don't know.
I think that's it's like theworld's unlimited, basically,
when you start to kind of pairup photos, because you know,
even you know, I was mentionedfood, but if you look at a
cookbook, those are photos thatare associated, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (38:21):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
Um, like that are.
Uh give me a song.
We're gonna make a playlist.
Oh, a song.
We'll do a little shuffle on theplaylist I had out here.
It this one popped up.
It's keep it gangster by youngjeezy.
Done.
Yep.
That's an interesting causebecause that's like right when I
kind of graduated high school,and that was kind of uh opening
(38:42):
up of the the creativity flow.
Is uh you start to kind ofcreate yourself as I was
graduating high school goinginto college, you just become
this new person.
Yeah.
And uh I don't know, it's aninteresting song that that just
randomly popped up becausethat's kind of the the birth uh
the of the creative growth.
God, I love that.
Um do you have any regrets?
(39:03):
I would say one regret was notstudying abroad in college,
would be probably uh a thing.
But I didn't I just didn't havethe opportunity or the financial
capital to go do that.
But I really had an opportunityto graduate college and then to
go explore the world that wayafter.
(39:23):
So um that was a regret at thetime.
Um, but it kind of gave memotivation to take advantage of
uh other opportunities that Ihad going forward.
Okay, man.
Last question for you.
Are you okay?
I feel okay, I really do.
Um, but it's important to framethings in a good perspective.
Um, so that is just a reminderto do that is frame life in a
(39:46):
perspective where you don't getyourself drained out because you
can really focus so much oneverything that's negatively
happening, and like I said,don't forget about it, but don't
spend all your time doing thatbecause you just don't become
the person that can who youshould be because you're gonna
be so drained out and you're notgonna be able to help when you
(40:09):
become too drained out.
Man, your your perspective andyour optimism is refreshing.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
So thanks for bringing that over.
SPEAKER_01 (40:16):
Yeah, no problem.
Remember, frame stuff, frame,frame, frame life like that.
Um before we go, where canpeople find you?
Uh if you go to Instagram,S-A-P, my last name of
Millington, soM-I-L-L-I-N-G-T-O-N on
Instagram, and then my websiteis millingtonmedia.com.
(40:38):
Uh, those are probably the twospots to find me.
Love it.
Okay.
All right, dude.
You want to get out of here?
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (40:44):
Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my
head.
I can't seem to make them goaway.
SPEAKER_02 (40:52):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Aaron McCall,
and co-hosted by photographerJoe Madison.
Used to kiss noises by Mikemaintenance the branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you did your podcast.
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