⏮ REWIND // Trish Hadley: To Be Fuckable

Part of our REWIND summer series, we’re revisiting eight conversations that crawled into our brains and hearts, nested, and just live there now. This time, it’s "Trash Hadley: To Be Fuckable" from Season 3.

Trish Hadley (boudoir photographer) shares her story with Aaron McCall as they discuss the mutual vulnerability and trust in boudoir photography,  the varied motivations of her subjects to be photographed, and the ability to pivot when your path feels wrong.

Keep up with Trish Hadley:
trishhadleyboudoir.com
IG: @trish.hadley.studios

Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
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——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
——
Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
——
Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_04 (00:37):
They want to look hot.
There is an innate thing I feelin every most humans, I
shouldn't say every human, to beconsidered fuckable.

SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Get out of hearing all these noises in my head.
I can't even make them go away.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
And I'm Aaron McCall.
And this time we're going to goback and revisit our
conversation with Trish Hadleyto be fuckable.
That's from season three,episode six.
Trish is a boudoir photographerbased in St.
Louis, Michigan, which I didn'teven know existed until she
invited me out to go record thisthing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26):
Really?
That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
It's not that far, which is weird.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Man, that is interesting.
Yeah.
You know, I I've thought aboutthis conversation a lot.
Sorry, am I jumping in tooearly?
Oh, go ahead.
Okay.
I thought about thisconversation a lot, and I have a
specific story that happened tome recently that that really
brought me back to it.
And it's just about beingrespectful and sensitive
scenarios in a studio setting.
Um, I had a portrait I wastaking, and to lighten the mood,

(01:53):
ironically, I was like, oh, Iwant to get this person to smile
a little bit.
So I'm like, hey, tell me aboutsomeone you love.
Tell me about one of the mostimportant people in your life.
And he thought for a moment, hewas like, well, that'd be my
brother.
We talked about him a littlebit.
Turns out he passed away, andthe client like actually started
crying in my studio in front ofme.
And it put upon my back therealization that this is a space

(02:17):
where people need to feel safeand respected.
And that is exactly what Trishis doing.
Empowering people to feel safe,respected, and sexy.

SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
Dude, well, so she she she has this like rare
ability to photograph somebodyin a way that instills a
heightened sense of self.
Yeah.
Right.
And that's and and not and notself-importance.
That's a that's an importantdistinction, I think.
Right.
I do too.
It's the kind of confidence thatcomes with seeing yourself in a

(02:48):
way that like you didn't knowyou could.

SPEAKER_03 (02:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
You know, like in a way that is strong and sexy and
just uh comfortable in your ownskin.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I I I see it day to daywith people that walk in front
of the lens and are just like,hey, I I'm uncomfortable having
my photo taken, but this issomething I have to do for work
or whatever.
So a little bit differentscenario to Trish, but there's
still a sentiment of like, hey,let's work together to make this
look the like the best versionof you you've seen in a long

(03:21):
time.

SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
And also side note, this is our most downloaded
episode ever.
Make that of what you will.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:28):
What do you think?
What are what are yourimpressions?
What from this conversation?
What do you feel like pullspeople in?
Uh I don't know what I'm doingwith any of this shit.
I don't know.

unknown (03:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:38):
Just like because you would think you'd think it'd
be luck.
You'd think it'd be, you know,serendipity or whatever, but
it's like continuously thehighest downloaded episode.
Yeah, like so.
So it's not like it struck theright day.
Four or five seasons later.
Yeah.
A lot to learn in this mediumstill.
Yeah, it's wild.
Uh before we dive in, don'tforget to follow wherever you're
listening.

(03:59):
Leave a five-star review, anddon't forget to tell your
friends.

SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
Also, this thing runs off of uh merch sales,
listener support, and reviews.
So if you want to help us outwith that stuff, we'll love you
forever.
Here's uh Trish Hadley to befuckable, season three, episode
six.
Yeah, and then and then if youdo say something that you're
like, I wish I wish I didn't saythat.

SPEAKER_04 (04:23):
Like something political or something like
that.
I don't give a shit.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
I don't I don't know.
Like I've had people be like,oh, you know what?
Actually, that might get mefired.

SPEAKER_04 (04:31):
Oh.
Yeah, I'm not worried aboutthat.

SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
Yeah, but um so I don't know.
This is our first conversation.
I mean, outside of likeInstagram or whatever.
Uh why don't we start at thebeginning?
Why don't you give me the giveme the backstory?

SPEAKER_04 (04:42):
Of the business?

SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
Of you.
Who the hell are you?

SPEAKER_04 (04:46):
Who the hell am I?
I'm Trish, and I photographwomen for a living.
This is my third career,actually.
Really?
Yeah, I went to school to be anart teacher and I lasted two
years.

SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
What took you out?

SPEAKER_04 (05:00):
Um, honestly, it wasn't the kids.
It was just I was I felt likethe school system in America was
a joke.

SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_04 (05:07):
And I was like, this I'm never gonna make it.
Like I could just tell myspirit, just yeah.
Um, so yeah, and then I got intographic design.
I I had an art degree and Ididn't know what to do with it.
So I took a night class.
It was like one of thesenine-week uh potpourri of just
design like illustrator,Photoshop.

(05:29):
Yeah.
And I got a job in a newspaperof all things after following or
following that class.

SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
And uh what does a graphic designer's job look like
in a newspaper?

SPEAKER_04 (05:39):
So this would have been like late 90s.
I'm really dating myself now.
But uh I'm old enough to wherethey were doing the clip, you'd
clip things together and then itwould be shot.
But then it kind of like uhmorphed into um laying things
out in page maker.
So that's how old that was.

SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
When I was first starting my graphic design
career, they were like, you haveto learn this.
Yeah.
Um, you're never gonna use it,but we should just in case.

SPEAKER_04 (06:08):
Yeah, there was that in Quark.

SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
I've still to this day never used it.

SPEAKER_04 (06:11):
Yeah.
I don't even know.
It's I don't think it's stillaround even, is it?
Probably not.
Yeah.
So um, yeah, I was in that worldfor a while and then I got hired
in an agency.
So I sold myself out fordesigning for a lot of corporate
bullshit.
Did not love it.
Actually, about 20 years agonow, because this is the 20th
anniversary coming up, my mom uhacquired a brain injury and it

(06:35):
was pretty severe, like almostto the point of it would have
been better if she would havepassed away because she had no
quality of life.
Oh, jeez.
So and my family is kind offucked up.
I had um or I have siblings, butthey were not like super
responsible people.
So I knew she was gonna needcare, you know, between her and
my dad, or I should say betweenm myself and my dad, helping

(06:57):
take care of her.
So I had to quit my job and Ihad to freelance and I was
scared shitless because youdon't know how you're gonna get
work, you don't know how you'regonna pay the bills, and so I
freelanced for uh eight yearsafter that while helping take
care of her.
And uh I got a job offer inChicago.

(07:19):
I wanted to take it because Ireally wanted to get out of
Michigan at the time, and I justwas like, oh, I want to be about
the big city and all that stuff,but um things just with her and
work didn't work out, but Icould tell I was getting burnt
out as well.
Yeah, like I was starting tohate my clients.
I was doing work that uh Ididn't like to do.
Yeah, I can relate.

(07:40):
Yeah, like one the biggestaccount that I remember working
on that paid me the best wasabout um hazard like remediation
for your home.
Oh, so like the real sexy stuff,yeah, like moles and fire and
shit like that.
And I'm like, okay, I want todie.
Um the weird thing that happenedwas so my mom actually had

(08:00):
passed away.
We had put her in a nursing homeat one point because it just got
too crazy.
And I went to the funeral hometo, and actually my dad was in
the nursing home at that time aswell.
But uh went to the funeral home,and when you go to the funeral
home and you're taking care of,you know, all that stuff, they
want you to usually bringpictures of your loved ones so

(08:23):
they can put them on display.
And I was like, yeah, I don'treally want it one of those
quirkboard deals where they'regonna stick a bunch of pictures
with the thumbtacks and shit.
So I was like, I got this, I'lltake care of it.
So I went back to my mom anddad's house, and of course there
was nobody there.
And I started looking throughpictures, and I couldn't find

(08:43):
like any of her, just her.
And I ended up getting into thelittle liquor cabinet there, and
I'm like just frustrated.
So I had like an entire bottleof wine.
I'm laying on their bed in theirbedroom, closets open.
I got shit strewn all over theplace, and I happened to look up
in the closet, and I saw likethis ked's shoe box, and I'm

(09:04):
like, God, I hope there'snothing bad in that box.
So I crawled up on a ladder, gotit down, dumped all the contents
out, and then sitting on top,and I have a picture actually
downstairs, but I had thispicture, I found it of just her
on the beach, and it was blow,and I blew it up and that and
used that for the funeral.
And people went ape shit overthat picture.

(09:24):
They were like, Oh, she washealthy there.
I remember what she know.
And that was when I likerealized that a lot of women,
I'm not talking about like theladies today, they'll do them
selfies of everything.
Sure.
But most women run from thecamera.
They or if they're moms, they'retaking pictures of their kids or
whatever, they're not out front.

SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_04 (09:45):
We're worried about being too fat and not looking
good and being too old.
You know, name, you know, fillin the blank.

SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (09:55):
For whatever reason, I if I ask a woman like, name
five things about yourself thatyou don't like physically, they
can rattle them off.
And if I ask them to do the samething about things that they
love, that list is gonna takelonger.

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Is that part of the process?

SPEAKER_04 (10:09):
No, I just know it.
Like I know that's just how weare, and some, you know, a lot
of men are like that too.

SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
Yeah, I I definitely struggle with some like body
dysmorphia stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (10:20):
Yeah, I think it's common.
It's and but we we really getlost in our own worlds and we
think it's just about us, but uhlike I hear the same things over
and over again when women arecoming in here.
They're like, I want to do this,but I'm out of my comfort zone.
I want to do this, but I hate mybelly, I want to do this, but I
hate my boobs.
Like it's always something, andit's I hear over and over and

(10:41):
over again.

SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
So So at what point did did it go from design to
photography?

SPEAKER_04 (10:47):
So actually, a really weird twist was my
husband, my husband's a 911dispatcher and he's been doing
it for a really long time.
And back then, so this is like2012-ish, um, he wanted to get
into wedding photography.
He took my camera that I wasactually using for like taking
pictures of products for uhclients, like for websites and

(11:09):
stuff that I would build becausethey would never give you good
enough pictures.

SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Right, ever.
Ever, right?

SPEAKER_04 (11:14):
So I'd be like, ship me the products, I'll take the
the pictures.
And it was just like a Nikon D40or something like that.
And he had been playing with itand he was like, you know what?
I think I want to get intowedding photography.
And I was like, What the fuckare you talking about?
You don't know anything aboutanything.
So we went to um a bigconference that they have every

(11:35):
year in Vegas.
It's for wedding portrait, it'sWPPI.
Um, and I'm like, go find outand see if this is what you
really want to do.
I'm gonna go be at the bar.
You come get me when you're whenyou're good and ready, you know.
But uh yeah, so he went to that,and then I remember one of his
classes.
I actually screwed up on thetime I went to go find him, and

(11:58):
I was like 45 minutes early, andI was walking through, they had
an exhibit there of just randomphotographers from all over the
world.
And I'm like looking at stuff,and I was like, I forgot that
photography could be an art.
Oh, yeah.
You know, I just it didn't whenyou're in design world, you kind
of think of it more asfunctional, like, oh, I need to
have this photo for this ad.

(12:19):
Yeah, right.
Or whatever.
But I was like, wow, this ispretty cool.
And there was a photographerthere, um, her name was Sue
Bryce, and she was from uh NewZealand, and she fo and she
specialized in women.
And her philosophy was a lotlike what I experienced at
trying to find pictures of mymom.

(12:41):
Like she was like, women don't,you know, want to be in front of
the camera, but yet when you goback in time, it was very common
to have a picture of your motherand father in your house, like
the matriarchy and the and wedon't really do that anymore.
It's like if people do, they goand get family pictures, like at

(13:01):
Christmas time or whatever.
But um, for women to have apicture, portrait of themselves
was kind of unheard of, like inthe last, you know, 50 years or
whatever.
So I was really interested inthat, and I thought, wow, that'd
be a cool job to do, but I justdon't see myself letting go of
my design career that I workedso hard for, and I have this all

(13:22):
this clientele now.
And uh after a while of thinkingabout it, I'm like, you know
what?
I think I'm just I'm burnt out.
I need to try something new, andthat's what I I did.

SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Was it just like that?
You just shut the door andopened up a new one?

SPEAKER_04 (13:35):
Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:36):
That's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_04 (13:37):
It is crazy.
My husband was not happy withme.
He was like really worried aboutmoney, and so was I.
But I was like, I don't know,this just feels right.
Yeah, like even rented a studiobefore I my camera came in the
in the mail for delivery.

SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
That's wild.

SPEAKER_04 (13:52):
I just had a feeling.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (13:55):
That's wild, and I I think photographing people
overall like already requiresthis sense of uh vulnerability
and trust.

SPEAKER_04 (14:04):
Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
Um especially boudoir photography.
And I think especially the wayyou do it, that that takes it 20
steps farther.
So how do you make thatconnection with your subject in
a meaningful way that enablessuch trust and vulnerability in
a space that is so personal andintimate?

SPEAKER_04 (14:24):
So it's not easy.
Um a lot of people think thatboudoir or really any
photography is just someonesitting in front of you and
you're doing clicking of thecamera and they think and that's
like less than two percent ofwhat I do.
Um the biggest thing for them isI have to have stuff on my
social media that proves I'mlegit.

(14:45):
Right, you know, and then thebiggest thing for them is making
is booking the appointment.
And they I've had women who Imean, I mean I've been doing
this for 10 years now.
I've had women who've waitedfive, six, seven years, wow,
been following me that long, andthey finally book.
And then when they take courage,right?

(15:05):
It does, it's huge because theywill see my Instagram and
they'll get intimidated.
They'll be like, Oh, all these,you know, beautiful women or
whatever.
And it's like, those areeveryday women, you know.
It's not this is not a modelfeed.
I shoot with a model randomly,like maybe once or twice a year.

SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:23):
But um, no, they're regular women and they have the
same complaints that you do, youknow.
Um, so when they come here,we're just in one room right
now, but there's you know, fourother rooms up here that I shoot
out of, and they all have theirown kind of like personality and
light and stuff.
But uh it's really about makingan environment that's

(15:45):
comfortable.
Um, you know, I make it aboutthem.
I play music that they like, Imake sure that the temperature
is good for them.
I talk to them and ask themabout them and uh make sure that
their outfits, you know, aregonna be good.
Uh they just want someone tobasically run the show for them
and tell them what to do.
They don't want to make a wholelot of decisions when they're

(16:07):
here.

SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
I kind of think you're offering more than just
like a set of photographs,right?
I think you're you know, I thinkyou're I think I think you're
offering a sense of confidence,right?
So like how do you how do youcarry around that kind of
responsibility?

SPEAKER_04 (16:19):
Good question.
So I have to take them to kindof have to graduate them and do
them in simple poses before wedo anything crazy.
Like there's people, there's aspectrum of people, obviously.
There's some women who are gonnawant to get naked and like you

(16:39):
know, bear all.
That's rare.
I mean, I I do photograph peoplein that um position, but it's
really they sometimes I'll havewomen come in and they'll bring
robes, and it's like this isboudoir.
You know, we can play with arobe, but you're not really me
wearing that robe.
Um if I graduate them when theystart out with simple poses, and

(17:01):
I was actually always taughtwhen I was learning boudoir,
never show them the back of thecamera until you've got
everything edited.
And um, I realized that I just Iwas with a client one day and I
showed her the back of thecamera because it was just a
really fucking awesome shot.
And she was someone who was kindof uptight and she saw that and
it instantly relieved her.

(17:22):
It was like, oh, that's amazing.
I look good in that.
Okay, now we're good.
And I was like, you know what?
I think I'm gonna try doing thatfrom now on, and now I do that.
I don't show them that out withobviously every shot, yeah.
But if I had a good one of themand it's like straight in
camera, yeah.
And they'll always say the thingtoo.
They're like, oh, I can'tbelieve that's me.
And it's like that's incredible.

(17:43):
Bitch, that ain't it is you.
I didn't run out of the room, gophotograph somebody else that
looks exactly like you and comeback, you know?

SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
So so what is it that you think that most women
and men are are looking for?

SPEAKER_04 (17:55):
They want to look hot, they wanna be there's an
innate, there's an innate thingI feel in every most humans, I
shouldn't say every human, to beconsidered fuckable.
Yeah.
Honestly, that's the I guessthat's the easiest way I can say
it.
Because when you are consideredfuckable and you consider

(18:15):
yourself that, you just carryyourself differently.

SPEAKER_01 (18:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (18:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:19):
Yeah, it's that confidence, right?
It is.
So then how do you navigate thebalance between capturing the
vulnerability and ensuring thatthey're okay?

SPEAKER_04 (18:26):
Okay, as far as like feeling good?

SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Yeah, they're confident, they're comfortable
with you.

SPEAKER_04 (18:30):
I ask them a lot too.
Um, we might do three poses andI'll be like, Are you doing
okay?
And usually I can gauge like ifthey are.

SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
Yeah, you ever get any liars?

SPEAKER_04 (18:40):
Yeah.
I mean, not necessarily liars,but they want it, they're trying
to push forward.
So, like, even like last week, Ihad a gal who I would do a pose
with her, and I could tell shewas holding her breath in each
one because when we would do thepose and I'd be good, she'd go,
like that's like this big breathof air.
And I'm like, Are you okay?
And she's like, Yeah, it's justmy process.

(19:01):
Like, I'm trying to get throughit.
And then that actually kind ofwent away later on.
It's just I would say theaverage person takes 15 to 20
minutes to kind of ease into it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:11):
Yeah.
So she stopped trying to getthrough it and started like
explaining it.
Enjoy it.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (19:15):
Even though they only see like a couple pictures
in the back of the camera, theyusually leave here being like,
that was way more easy and morefun than I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_01 (19:24):
Yeah.
And then I think it's that kindof experience too.
I mean, speaking from theoutside, I've never done
anything like that, but I feellike it's probably that kind of
experience that AI cannotduplicate in any way, shape, or
form.

SPEAKER_04 (19:36):
Right.
And AI is so it still looks soillustrative.
It still looks fake at thispoint in time.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:43):
More like the seven fingers on one hand doesn't help
and that kind of thing.
Um, so is is there usually astory when you're photographing,
or is it like uh, hey, I justwant to be fuckable?
Is it is it that simple?

SPEAKER_04 (19:57):
There is a story usually, and it varies for
everybody, and they always bringtheir shit here, their baggage
here.
Sometimes they'll I'll knowabout it right when they
inquire.
Like some people will just belike, uh, I want to know what
your prices are, blah blah blah.
Because they're they're shoppingfor a photographer.
But other people are like, youknow, I saw your work, um, and I

(20:21):
would really like to do a shoot.
I'm divorced now from last year.
Um, or I'm a mom and I have, youknow, kids under five and I'm
really I don't recognize hisbody anymore, and they want to
reconnect.
Weirdly, even though thefuckable thing is is a big part
of it, it actually has a lot todo with identity.

(20:43):
It's weird.
Go on.
So even with dudes, because I'vebeen photographing a few dudes
lately, um if there's this biglife change for somebody,
whether it's divorce, lost ajob, lost a hundred pounds,
gained fifty pounds, um, turnedmilestone age 40, 50.

(21:07):
It's the mind-body connectionlike has to be one thing I feel
in order for us to be happy.

SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
And that's so fucking hard to achieve.

SPEAKER_04 (21:18):
It totally is.
I don't know most I have aproblem with it myself.
Like, I mean, I've gained a lota ton of weight like in the
fall, and my husband and I wenton a cruise like written around
Christmas time, and I sawpictures of myself, and I'm
like, Jesus Christ, what thehell, you know?

SPEAKER_01 (21:34):
Story of my life.
Story of my life.
I call it my winter coat.

unknown (21:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (21:40):
So I mean, it's kind of like a never-ending thing,
but I have people that are on aand I hate the term self-love
and I hate the term empowerment.
It's so overused in my industry.
But but I get it.
And people who sometimes they'reoften on a journey of just
trying to accept themselves,especially if they're getting

(22:00):
older, or especially if they'rea mom and they had kids, their
body's never gonna be back whenit was in their early 20s, you
know?
And it's about accepting it andagain knowing that they still
have positive things going on.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:15):
You ever have it go wrong?

SPEAKER_04 (22:18):
Not really.
I've had shoots that were reallytough.
Yeah, like somebody who justeither couldn't relax, like
probably my worst one was acouple years ago.
A gal came here, and I my gal myladies come from all over, like
all over the state.
And she drew.
Like from Detroit, and uh shehad been doing some weed on her

(22:43):
way here, so she was trying torelax, and then and I didn't
know this, but I do serve like aglass of wine or something
before but she had um some JackDaniels in her, you know,
belongings and she was sippingon it, she was getting all
fucked up, and I kind of didn'tknow the extreme of it until
about after doing one set andyou know moving on to the next

(23:07):
one because she was starting toslur words and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
You're like, all right.

SPEAKER_04 (23:11):
Yeah, and so trying to run it's like you know,
wrangling a cat kind of thing.
You just like you can't do yourjob.
But then, right, she like justhad a breakdown in the middle of
the shoot and was like talkingto her dad, molesting her and
blah blah blah.
And I'm saying people bring thatshit to their chute, and she
just like it was just like thewhole verbal diarrhea thing, and

(23:34):
I just did what I could with theshoot, but it was kind of a shit
show.

SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
Yeah, what do you do?
Are you just like, all right,well, roll over or whatever?

SPEAKER_04 (23:43):
Yeah, it was kind of just past that point where I
could save it.
I mean, I got some stuff, but itwas kind of fuck that sucks.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:51):
What role do you think self-expression plays in
what you do both for you andthem?

SPEAKER_04 (23:56):
So I will have some ladies that will totally bring
outfits that are about them.
And like so, if I have a gal whois into um Star Wars, she might
bring a Star Wars shirt, like at-shirt or something like that,
something playful.
Or I'll have like the gal whoreally wants to wear red

(24:17):
leather, you know, yeah, yeah.
Kind of uh BDSM kind ofsideline, which is totally not
that is not my personality atall.
But if it's about them and theylike it, then I'll totally
encourage them to bring it.

SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
Um do you ever have trouble getting into that space
if it's something that you'renot yes?
So how do you get there?

SPEAKER_04 (24:39):
Oh god.
I don't know.
Sometimes I just look at theclock and I'll be like, I'm
done, we're done in an hour.
So I do what I can.
I mean, I have a list of thingsthat I really don't want them to
bring.
Yeah.
Like, don't bring cheesy assmaid costumes and stuff like
that.
You know?
But and I'm not big into props.
Like that's that is some there'ssome photographers that like

(25:02):
that stuff.
I just am not about it.

SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
You gotta tell me what props have made things go
wrong.

SPEAKER_04 (25:08):
Um I had a gal bring a cake one time, and she wanted
a cake in between her legsbecause it was her birthday, and
uh I was really worried aboutlighting candles on that thing.
Um sometimes it's the prop isthe actual outfit.
Like I had a girl bring amermaid tail once, and that was

(25:29):
hard to shoot.

SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
Yeah, I'd imagine so.

SPEAKER_04 (25:31):
But I mean, like I have wings here and things like
that.
I I can deal with if it's agarment, however, the weirdest
fucking thing was.
I had a gal show up and shebrought a box with her, and she
goes, Trish, I know you don'tlike props, but I'm really
hoping you can do this for mebecause this is a private joke
between me and my husband, andI'm like, oh god, you know, what
the hell?
So she brings it upstairs here,and she she drink, takes it out

(25:56):
of the box, and it's a fuckingleaf blower.
Like, you know, out of thegarden stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
You could have been like, you get 10 guesses, and I
never would have guessed it.

SPEAKER_04 (26:06):
And I'm just like, she goes, just a couple shots,
and I'm like, Jesus, I have aroom that's just all black, it's
kind of nondescriptive.
So it's one of these ones thatyou wear on your back, you have
like as a backpack.
Oh, yeah, and then and she hadlike a little outfit with it,
but it looked, she looked like aMarvel character.

(26:27):
It did not look sexy or cute oranything, and I just remember
while I was shooting it, I waslike, don't tell anybody that I
did this for you because I don'twant anyone to know about it.

SPEAKER_01 (26:37):
Yeah, and I will not be posting this one.

SPEAKER_04 (26:39):
No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (26:40):
Nope.
So, how has all of this helpedshape your sense of identity?

SPEAKER_04 (26:45):
So I realized that as I'm getting older, I connect
with women who are over 40 more.
Because when I got into this, Iactually was shooting like a lot
of brides.
Okay.
Because brides will often wantto do this for their groom as a
gift kind of thing.
And I just I'm finding out thatI don't identify with them as

(27:05):
much anymore.
Like I'm watching people, solike Pam Anderson has been kind
of in headlines lately.
And I mean, I grew up with Pamas far as like, you know, she
had the big old boobs and thepencil thin eyebrows and the
makeup and all that stuff, andit was all fake, right?
Yeah, right.
And now she's out, and I want tosay she's in her mid to late

(27:29):
50s, something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
She's not really wearing makeup.

SPEAKER_04 (27:32):
She's not wearing makeup, and she's making
headlines about the wholefucking makeup thing or
non-makeup thing.
And she looks great.

SPEAKER_02 (27:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (27:39):
And I she's actually her Instagram's blowing up, and
she's got like these reallynatural photos.
And I'm loving that she'sembracing that because I feel
like I look at a lot of women,especially over the last 10
years, and everyone wants tolook like a Kardashian, you
know, with the lips and thecooking.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yep.

(27:59):
So it's refreshing.
And I identify with that becauseI hardly wear really any makeup
anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
What about how things have influenced your
relationships?

SPEAKER_04 (28:10):
So I notice that I I do kind of get burnt out on
women when I'm listening towomen and their stories, which I
totally appreciate because itmakes for a better shoot too.
If I go out with women friends,I don't necessarily want to
listen to all their bullshit.
Yeah.
In fact, I went to a dinnerparty last summer and I was

(28:32):
sitting at a table with likeeight women, and they were all
just going on and they're likecomplaining about their husbands
or whatever.
And I just, for whatever reason,I'm like, this is like what I
hear at my job.

SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
Yeah.
I need a break.

SPEAKER_04 (28:45):
Yeah, I literally went to a different part of the
restaurant, sat at the bar, hada bourbon and a burger, and I
had the best time.
That's the dream.

unknown (28:53):
That's the dream.

SPEAKER_04 (28:54):
Talking to strangers.
It was like awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
So I don't want to speak for them, and I know you
said you don't care for the termself-care or that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
But I'm sure that for many ofyour subjects, the process is
just that.
It's a form of self-care.
But what are you doing to makesure you're taking care of
yourself physically,emotionally, mentally?

SPEAKER_04 (29:15):
It's funny that you mentioned that because I'm
actually going to physicaltherapy right now for my back.

SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
And I don't think that my back is actually a
physical thing.
I think it's a mental thing.

SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
Stress?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (29:28):
Yeah.
I think a lot of it, because thething about boudoir, more so
than like if you're shootingfamilies and things like that,
like I say, they're bringingtheir baggage here, and I'm
dealing with a lot of that.
And I never went to school to bea therapist.
I'm like the worst therapist ofall time.
But it wears on me.
So and I put off like I've hadthis back issue since like

(29:51):
November.
And I finally just went lastweek to physical therapist.
I'm like, I need to do somethingabout this.
But yeah, you definitely have toalmost remind yourself to do
stuff for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (30:03):
Yeah, it's so damn important too.

SPEAKER_04 (30:05):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
What do you so so outside of this, what are you
doing to kind of keep yourselfhappy and and fulfilled?

SPEAKER_04 (30:12):
I spend time with my husband.
We're foodies.
Love that.
We'll do day trips in Michiganevery once in a while.
I spend a lot of time with mydogs.
I walk the dogs.

SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
Dude, I love your dogs.
I met them just now for aboutfive seconds.
But I'm a dog guy.
Yeah.
I love it so damn much.

SPEAKER_04 (30:31):
I know.
Honestly, like if I could pickany profession, it would
probably be like to run a dogsanctuary or something like
that.
I love that.
Yeah.
But yeah, being around them, andI have been trying to do
meditation for the last coupleof years.
That's hard.
Especially because if you have amonkey brain like I do, um it's
hard.

(30:51):
But it's really worth it tolearn.

SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
What do you what are you getting out of it?

SPEAKER_04 (30:57):
Just calming yourself down.
Because I've never beendiagnosed with ADHD, but I think
I have it.
Yeah.
When I read the symptoms, I'mlike, check mark, check mark,
check mark.
And I'm like, ooh.
And I know, and I'm not a bigfan of meds.

unknown (31:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (31:15):
Just I think it was when dealing with my mom and her
brain injury, she was on so manymedications.
And that shit can just changeyou physically.
I mean, it's just it's a lot ofit can be pretty terrible.

SPEAKER_01 (31:27):
Yeah, and the imagery of it just sticks in
your fucking head.

SPEAKER_04 (31:30):
So if I don't have to be on meds or something and
try to figure out a differentway, then I will.
And that's kind of what I do.

SPEAKER_01 (31:37):
Yeah, I just started on LexaPro several months ago.
Right.
Because again, I was try Ididn't want that because I've
had similar issues in my familywith just like meds fucking all
over the place.
Um and I was like, I don't wantand I don't want this shit
anywhere near me.
One of the best decisions I evermade.

SPEAKER_02 (31:55):
Good.

SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Yeah, it feels awesome.
I know it's not for everybody,but like um I don't know.
I'm just sharing.

SPEAKER_04 (32:03):
I feel like if it's right for you, then you should
totally do it.

SPEAKER_01 (32:07):
What about things like self-doubt and creative
block?
How do you how do you deal withthat?

SPEAKER_04 (32:11):
So I did have a creative block uh actually
starting the new year because Ifound myself last year.
I knew things needed to change,but I didn't know what.
It's like you you can feel it,but you're like, what is it?
And for me it was just change II know I need to make the shift

(32:31):
from and I'm in the processright now.
Women that want to do a shootfor their partner, yeah, it's
nice, and I like those clients,but I am more about the women
who want to do this forthemselves.

SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
I love that.

SPEAKER_04 (32:44):
And I can just I could tell last year I just had
a bunch of situations that justkept coming back to that.
I mean, there's one thing aboutif somebody comes in and they
want, like if they're a bride orthey were doing this for an
anniversary present or somethinglike that, they're not as
invested.
Like I like the woman who uhshe's either got divorced or

(33:09):
something's happening whereshe's doing this for herself,
yeah she's in the no fuck zonesometimes, like and it's amazing
like the shots that we can get.
And it's not about beingprettier or being younger, it's
about they're just more investedin it and they want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (33:25):
You've had people that can take five, six years to
kind of get a hold of you or uhto kind of go through with it.
Like, do you keep up with thatrelationship or or try to
encourage them in some way, oris there anything that you would
say, oh, maybe you shouldn't bedoing this?

SPEAKER_04 (33:42):
Um, I do weirdly have a nice return rate of
clients.
I would say almost half of thepeople that I photograph on a
yearly basis have shot with mebefore.

SPEAKER_01 (33:51):
Oh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (33:52):
And the weird thing that happens is if they do a
shoot with me, then they comeback.
The second shoot is alwaysbetter than the first one.
Even like just how it goes, howthe the production of the image
is because they are morecompetent.
They know me, you know, they'rekind of trained in how I pos
them.

SPEAKER_02 (34:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (34:11):
And plus I try to keep it fresh as far as like so,
like last year we added a rainroom, and that's like, you know,
a wet look.
Oh, yeah.
My husband was not happy with mewanting him to set it up like
that because it's actually inthe basement.
Okay.
And he his his response was, no,you know, most people want to
keep water out of the basement.

(34:32):
I was like, no, I got a plan.
You know, that's the good thingabout having them come back,
they can try new things.
But I would say as far as likeum screening someone who should
not do it, I usually try tocatch that before they actually
come here.
Yeah.
Um, I've had people, I think,with severe dysmorphia, body

(34:54):
dysmorphia, that it's not gonnasolve their problems.

SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
Yeah, this is just gonna make it worse.

SPEAKER_04 (34:59):
In some cases, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
You ever had any clients that start to come back
and you're like, no, no, thankyou?

SPEAKER_04 (35:05):
Um I've had a few, yeah, like they're just either
too high maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 (35:10):
What are their names?

SPEAKER_04 (35:14):
Yeah, uh I'll just be like, yeah, I'm bugged.

SPEAKER_01 (35:26):
Yeah, so have you ever considered an exhibition or
anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 (35:31):
So um back in 2018, I actually did a campaign and
the website still exists.
It was called the FurioCampaign.

SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (35:42):
And uh speaking of Pam Anderson and a no-makeup
look, that's what my campaignwas.
And I was still doing moreportrait stuff there because
I've actually only been doingboudoir since 2020, like full on
boudoir.
Oh, okay.
I actually did portrait work andsome boudoir sprinkles kind of
in the first half, but I did ano makeup campaign, and my goal
was to just have women come inand do portraits of them with

(36:06):
like no makeup.
And I I did it because someonepissed me off online and said,
Oh, well, the only reason thosephotos look good is because
they're all had their hair andmakeup done.
And I was like, fuck you, I'mgonna do this.
Yeah, so I my goal was I wasgonna just shoot like 20 women,

(36:26):
and it ended up being 120.
Really?

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
Yeah.
The website's still up, yeah.
What is it?

SPEAKER_04 (36:32):
I'm pretty sure it's for real campaign.
It's like and I did most of itin black and white, but uh at
the end of that, and so speakingof stories, I had a whole
section on the website, and Ididn't do this with everybody,
but like say I did a lot ofindividuals, I would do mothers
and daughters, I did sisters,and uh I would have them tell a

(36:55):
story kind of just about likewhere they were at in their
life, how they felt about beingin front of the camera with no
makeup on, um, how they feltabout the images.
So they've there's a lot ofstories on there.
But what I ended up doing was itwas such a crazy ass uh
successful campaign that I didan exhibition.
So I made all these prints, youknow, and I had their stories

(37:17):
next to the print.
And then I had vendors therelike that were all women
related.

SPEAKER_01 (37:23):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (37:23):
It was amazing and it was a great time, but I'll
never do it again.

SPEAKER_01 (37:27):
No, no, why?

SPEAKER_04 (37:28):
I was a wreck.

SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Yeah, it's stressful, right?

SPEAKER_04 (37:31):
Very stressful.

SPEAKER_01 (37:32):
Yeah.
Was it just like the productionof the thing, the organization,
the logistics?

unknown (37:36):
All of it.

SPEAKER_01 (37:36):
But what about that feeling when you like step back
and you just see the collectionof your work?

SPEAKER_04 (37:41):
It was surreal.

SPEAKER_01 (37:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (37:43):
But I was like just too overwhelmed.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:47):
Is it kind of like when you get married and like
you can't really enjoy the dayand it's coming in two seconds?

SPEAKER_04 (37:51):
Like that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 (37:53):
Where are you at in your life right now?
As far as what you asked theseother women stories about where
they're at in their lives.

SPEAKER_04 (37:59):
So I told you I gained a bunch of that weight
like in the fall.
So like I'm a stress eater.
Sure.
Like a lot of people.
And uh stress drinker too.

SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_04 (38:09):
Yeah.
Um, I was doing behind thescenes and uh I saw myself and
I'm like, ugh.
You know, just like the cruisepictures, like, okay, I need to
do something about this.

SPEAKER_02 (38:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (38:21):
So I've been walking the dogs, I've been trying to,
you know, eat healthier.
Um, the whole you want to behappy with yourself.
Right.
And it's weird because it's kindof hypocritical.
Like I'm telling women, youknow, come on in, do pictures,
you don't have anything to worryabout.
You're gonna look awesome,you're gonna be happy, and yet

(38:42):
here I am, like not happy withwhere I'm at right now.
So that's kind of a struggle.

SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
Yeah, it kind of gives you some perspective a
little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_04 (38:51):
Yeah.
I I don't know, weight isprobably the number one issue of
women and their excuses of whythey don't want to do it, and I
totally understand that.
So for so having that qualitythough, I get it.
Like that helps me relate tothem.

SPEAKER_01 (39:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (39:07):
So that's a positive on it.

SPEAKER_01 (39:08):
Do you ever share?
Do you ever share with them tokind of make it relatable and
that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_04 (39:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I did a photo shoot, a boudoirshoot two years ago, and it
sucked.
Really?
Yeah, it sucked ass.

SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
Was that was that your fault or the photographer?

unknown (39:24):
It was a photographer.

SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
Let's bury him.

SPEAKER_04 (39:29):
So I was really on the fence about sharing the
story of my crappy boudoirshoot.
It was just total letdownbecause I was gonna really share
this with people, you know, anddoing this shoot.
And then I literally was sittingin a hotel and making this video
about my crappy shoot, andeveryone wanted to know about
it.
And I'm like, really?
You want to know about likethat?
And they they did, they want youto share.

(39:52):
So I hired somebody that I'dfound on Instagram.
I liked their work, and I missedthe red flag on what was on
their Instagram, and I'll justreveal that in a second.
But this person is in myindustry as a teacher, and the
unfortunate thing aboutphotography is there's it's

(40:13):
infiltrated with a lot of peoplewho should not be teaching.

SPEAKER_01 (40:17):
Yeah, or or shooting.

SPEAKER_04 (40:19):
Yes, yes, that's unfortunately the case.
There was a big conference.
I met my friend out there, she'sa um commercial photographer,
and we went to this conference,and then I was gonna have my
shoot during this conference,and I was going to this person's
workshop.
So my shoot was the one day, andthen the workshop was the
following day, and it was at anAirbnb in Vegas, and the

(40:42):
photographer had hired a hairmakeup person to come into my
hotel room, and this bitch waslike two hours late.
And uh photographer shootsnatural light like I do, and
this was like in February, soyou've got like a timeline.

SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Yeah, you got about 35 minutes of light.

SPEAKER_04 (41:00):
Right.
So when she did my um hairmakeup, she didn't speak very
much English, and she was justreally rough with me.
But then when I saw the hairmakeup after, I looked like a
Puerto Rican whore.
And if you can you see me, I'm avery fair-skinned, red-headed

(41:22):
girl.
I have no eyebrows unless I puteyebrows on, right?
That's how fair I am.
I did not recognize the personwhen I was looking in the
mirror, and not in like a goodway.
No, and then so I went to thehotel, and of course,
daylight's, you know, dying.
And I told the photographer thatI wasn't happy, and that's when

(41:43):
this person revealed to me thatthey'd never used this person
before.
And I was like, fucking A, areyou kidding me?
So I just I said to this person,I was like, don't shoot my face.
And I made like this roundgesture on my head, don't shoot
any of this.
Just do, you know, do the body,do the poses.
But when I was being shot, Icould tell like my face was

(42:05):
being included.
And I'm like, no, I'm not gonnasay anything.
I'm gonna let the this person,the professional teacher in my
industry.
You know, the thing I do with myclients, and I mentioned before,
like, I make the music aboutthem, I make the temperature
about them.
None of that was included.
There was some weird likeMexican soap opera music
playing.

(42:26):
I'm like, what the fuck is this?
It just wasn't comfortable.
There was no relation, no onetalking to me really.
So when I left there, my friendcame to pick me up at the AB and
B, and I was just telling her,and she was just like, You gotta
be fucking kidding me, Trish.
And I'm like, Yeah, I know.
This was like a year in themaking that I was looking

(42:47):
forward to the shoot.

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
Um, did you walk out to meet her in your full makeup?

SPEAKER_04 (42:53):
She just like stared at me.
But um, it wasn't just not agood experience.
I I paid for photos, but Ididn't love them.

SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (43:02):
I just had no connection with any of it.
That sucks.
It does suck.

SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
What's next for you?

SPEAKER_04 (43:09):
Um, I mean, I see myself doing this for a while
yet.
And then someday the dogsanctuary will probably happen.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:19):
Have you ever considered shooting dogs or
doing anything?

SPEAKER_04 (43:21):
Like kind of So we did that for a while.
My husband and I did when he wasin his wedding photography
phase.
But it's weird, like inMichigan, parts of the state are
more dog friendly than others.
Yeah.
Like I feel like up in evenTravor City, they like dogs more
and even in Grand Rapids too.

SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
Yeah, we love our dogs in Grand Rapids.

SPEAKER_04 (43:41):
Here not so much.
There's there's still a stigma,I think, on just dogs are not so
much a part of the family.

SPEAKER_01 (43:51):
I refuse to subscribe to that ideology.

SPEAKER_04 (43:55):
Yeah, so I mean, there's still people like me
that exist like because I haveno human children.
Yeah.
I mean, but um, yeah, it's justnot as prominent here.

SPEAKER_01 (44:04):
I don't get that in any way.

SPEAKER_04 (44:08):
Yeah, I know.
Me neither.

SPEAKER_01 (44:09):
I'm gonna I'll I'm gonna go down a I'm gonna go
down a freaking rabbit hole if Idon't if I don't readjust.
That's all right.
Uh is there anything else weshould talk about before we go
topic hopping?

SPEAKER_04 (44:20):
No, I don't know.
I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
Feel good?

SPEAKER_04 (44:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
When you're gone, what do you hope people will say
about you?

SPEAKER_04 (44:28):
Um maybe not say, but I want them to sing Tina
Turner's simply the best.

SPEAKER_01 (44:34):
In like a in like unison, like a crew.

SPEAKER_04 (44:36):
Sure.
Oh like a crew.
That'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 (44:42):
Finish the thought.

SPEAKER_04 (44:44):
Creativity requires abandonment of structure.

SPEAKER_01 (44:49):
Say more.

SPEAKER_04 (44:50):
So when I was a kid and I used to like draw all the
time and I told my much oldersister that I wanted to be an
artist, she's like, well,there's the term starving
artists, and that's what you'regonna be.
You know, like you can't make aliving out of being creative.
And I feel like a lot of peopledon't try to be creative because

(45:14):
it's not looked at as at as uhfundamental or you know it's
more honorable to be anaccountant than to be a
photographer kind of thing.
So to be creative and to want toget in that world, you have to
abandon all that other shit.

SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Um what would your last meal be?

SPEAKER_04 (45:31):
Um, again, it probably wouldn't be a meal.
I'd go to Caesar's Palace inVegas and do their buffet.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
I've never done their buffet.
Uh enlighten me.

SPEAKER_04 (45:44):
So it probably cost about a hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_01 (45:46):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (45:47):
Uh funny, after my shoot, that's where I went.

SPEAKER_01 (45:51):
Just like I'm gonna go eat my feelings.

SPEAKER_04 (45:53):
Yes.
Because it's it's amazing.
Like you can go to the buffetand there's like you keep going.
There's like 10 rooms of justeverything seafood, Mexican,
Chinese, all of it.
In fact, um, there was a womanat the buffet, and I had my
plate.
Like, I was ready to get somelike tacos and stuff.
Yeah.
And there's this, there's thisbitch up at the thing, and she's

(46:15):
just, she's not, she didn't haveher plate or anything yet.
She was just perusing to likecheck everything out.
And I like I would just starvemyself for like a week to do
this shoot that sucked.
And I'm like, I want my tacos,and I like kind of pushed her
out of the way, and she went,excuse me.
And I'm like, bitch, get out ofthe way.

SPEAKER_01 (46:31):
Did you not know the day I had?
What's the what's the bestadvice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_04 (46:39):
Um I remember when I was leaving my agency job, my
boss, who I wasn't really a bigfan of, because he knew I was
going to freelance, he said, uh,you're gonna work harder for
yourself than you did foranybody else.

SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
It's true.

SPEAKER_04 (46:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (46:53):
What's the worst?

SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
The worst advice?
Yeah.
When I was going to get intophotography, one of my clients
from my design world, she foundout I wanted to focus on women,
and she thought that was stupid.
And she's like, you really needto just photograph children.

(47:15):
I don't know.
I'm like, there's 10,000 otherpeople already doing that.
Why do I want to do the samething?
Honestly, some people just theyhave a really um ill-conceived
notion of what boudoir is about.
A lot of people think it's aboutjust tits and ass.
Yeah.
And like I told you, it's a lotof it's about identity, but
there's just so many people thatdon't understand that.

(47:38):
So when I I last year, when Iwas starting to feel like things
were a little bit off and Ineeded to change things, and I
was at a bridal show in GrandRapids.
Um, I had two ladies thatstepped into my booth.
And typical booth, you have likealbums out, you have prints and
things like that.

(47:58):
Sure.
And uh they were looking at abunch of my stuff, and I'm
probably like the worst personto be at a trade show.
I don't I don't go into a spiel,I just like say hello and I
answer questions.
Yeah.
And they were there for a while,like they were looking at every
book, and so finally the onepiped up, and I thought she was
going to say something or startasking questions, and instead

(48:22):
she said, and she's holding mybook like up to her face, and
she's like, Wow, these womenmust really be in love with
themselves to do this.
And I was like, Bitch, get outof my booth.
That was my first, my firstimpulse.
But I so I did, I know you'vetalked about like going to
therapy.
I did go to therapy for about ayear because I was dealing with

(48:44):
anger issues, and um Irecognized I was having like a
flare-up at that moment becauseI could feel my whole body just
getting red and hot.
And so my yeah, like my firstimpulse was to tell her to get
the fuck out of my booth.
But instead, and I don't knowwhere this voice came from, it

(49:05):
didn't even sound like me.
It sounded like 10 octaveslower.
But I all I said to her was, Igoes, actually, a lot of women
don't love themselves, andthat's why they do this.
And for however it came out ofme, she just took the book and
she put it down and then theyjust left really super quick.

SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
So sit with that, ladies.

SPEAKER_04 (49:27):
Yeah, but again, she I feel like they look at it
because they want to do it, butthere's that whole all only vain
people do that.

SPEAKER_01 (49:38):
What advice would you give to yourself just
starting out?

SPEAKER_04 (49:42):
Remember all your days in retail and all your
encounters with people becauseyou're probably gonna still deal
with that factor a little bit.
Because it's not just havingsomeone in front of you and
taking their picture, you'redealing with a person, and some
of them are assholes.

SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
And your sp your your your space, I don't know if
this is like everybody knowsthis, but like your studio is
your home.

SPEAKER_04 (50:08):
Yep, this whole top floor.

SPEAKER_01 (50:09):
I would lose my mind if somebody is an asshole in me
in my fucking home while I'mtrying to create something for
them.

SPEAKER_04 (50:17):
Yeah.
I mean, I used to have a spacein Saginaw and it was a big open
space.
I think, and I've definitelychanged how I book people
because I coming here, you'reright, they're they're my house.
And so far, so good.
Um, I definitely had a higherasshole factor in Saginaw.

SPEAKER_01 (50:39):
Oh, that might have been location.

SPEAKER_04 (50:43):
Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 (50:45):
Uh what are you watching or listening to right
now?

SPEAKER_04 (50:49):
I'm really lame.
So I'm actually doing an editingmarathon this week and next
week, and I'm rewatching theSopranos.

SPEAKER_01 (50:56):
I've never seen a single episode.
Really?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:58):
I mean, if you like mobster stuff.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:00):
Yeah.
Do you believe in ghosts?

SPEAKER_04 (51:02):
I do.

SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
You have any good stories?

SPEAKER_04 (51:05):
So this place is not haunted.

SPEAKER_01 (51:08):
I would have thought for sure.

SPEAKER_04 (51:09):
Really?
Well, just because it's likeold.
Yeah.
130.

SPEAKER_01 (51:13):
Yeah, and it's big and you know.

SPEAKER_04 (51:16):
Um, so speaking of Saginaw, because I had my studio
there for six years.
Um, it's an old town, which, ifyou're not familiar, it's the
whole Michigan lumber baron uhtime period, because on the
river, so everything isVictorian era.
And I would often, and I was onthe second floor, I would often

(51:37):
hear footsteps above me, andnobody would be there.
And uh there is a uh funeralhome about three blocks down
from where I was at, and there'sa guy there now, his name is
Steve Shippy, and he has aparanormal um business.

(51:58):
Like he's an investigator.
He's actually he's had showslike on Amazon and things like
that.
Yeah.
And um, he called me one daywhen I was still uh over at that
studio because he wanted to haveheadshots of him and some of his
staff.
And I said, Do you know anythingabout this building that I'm in?
And he's like, Yeah, that's it'snot a super like haunted one,
but um, or active one, but youknow, it's usually like

(52:21):
footsteps and stuff above you.
So he's like, he knew alreadyabout it.
But then the funny thing was Iwas outgrowing that space, and
the guy that owned thatbuilding, he purchased the
funeral home that was a coupleblocks down, and I was thinking
of moving over there.
So I went over-feraler home?
Yeah, because he was like gonnabust it up and just do different

(52:42):
businesses in there, and therewere already some businesses in
there.
So the space I was looking atwas actually like the old chapel
part.
It was just really open, and Iwas thinking of just like
sectioning off and having likethese different looks.
And for whatever reason, Icouldn't meet um what the
landlord had wanted to do.
Like he couldn't give me theprice on what electrical was

(53:04):
gonna cost.
And I'm like, I can't fuckingsign a lease if I don't know
what things are gonna cost.
So I so we actually ended upfinding this place, my husband
did this house.
And I was like, you know what,that's gonna be better because
we can just live there and youknow.
You gotta deal with the ghostsituation.
Right.
So then my friend, um, this waslast year, she's like, There's
this paranormal thing in Sagina,and we you know, we go at late

(53:27):
at night and you know, blah blahblah.
And I'm like, okay, whatever,just give me the address.
So I look it up and I'm like,why does this look familiar?
And I get there and it's afucking funeral home.
And so the Steve Shippy guy setup his, he's got a museum down
there.

SPEAKER_01 (53:42):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (53:43):
And the space like a paranormal museum?
Yes, it's cool as fuck.
Um he's got like a ghost boxthingy that you can talk to.
Love that.
Um, he's got like all kinds ofseries.

SPEAKER_01 (53:54):
Um I've always wanted to like just like go on
one of those.

SPEAKER_04 (53:58):
I think so he hosts those.
So that's what we went to, andit was in the space that I was
gonna move into.
And that place is haunted asSpock.
Well, yeah.
He has these little recorderswhere you can ask a question and
you can't you have to play itback.

SPEAKER_01 (54:15):
Yeah, EVP.

SPEAKER_04 (54:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean, like, so everybodywould ask their own question and
or questions, and like one ofthe questions I asked was like,
What color did your hair used tobe?
Brown.
And it's like, um, why do youlike why do you like staying
here?
And it was like blah blah blah.
You couldn't really understandall of it.
But then I had asked a questionlike, are you trapped here?

(54:38):
And it was clear as day theanswer was yes.

SPEAKER_01 (54:41):
Oh, that's so functional.

SPEAKER_04 (54:43):
And yeah, so we um we had a lot of fun, but it was
eerie, and you had these dollsand shit down there.

SPEAKER_01 (54:52):
So what do you gotta do the dolls?

SPEAKER_04 (54:55):
But um, we made jokes before we left that we
were gonna carry something homewith us.
So um, and I had to that roadthat you took here, the 46, is
just two lane of farm, right?
So I had to drive from Saginawback here.
And the next day when I got upfrom after that paranormal

(55:15):
thing, I just felt sluggish andpissy.
I was like in a really bad mood.
And I had to go out that night.
I remember to try to meet somefriends or something, I just
didn't want to go.
And I just was like, I don'tknow, I just felt weird.

SPEAKER_02 (55:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (55:29):
And I was getting ready in the other room in my
bathroom, and Norm, my middledog, the brown lab, um, he never
comes in the bathroom.
But he came in there and hewalked past me and he stared at
the wall.
And I'm like, what the fuck,dog?
What are you doing?
And I just I was like, man,maybe I did bring something home
with me.
So I saged the shit out of thehouse.

(55:51):
Set off every smoke alarm.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:56):
Fuck.
What can you not live withoutdowntime?

SPEAKER_04 (56:02):
Like I'm an I'm definitely an introvert.
If I'm with a crowd of people, Ihave to like come home and just
not talk to anybody or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:12):
How bad do the shoots take it out of you?

SPEAKER_04 (56:14):
Pretty bad sometimes.
It depends on how much baggagethey bring with them.

SPEAKER_01 (56:19):
Do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_04 (56:21):
Of course.
Um probably going to school tobe a teacher, but I never really
used it.

SPEAKER_01 (56:28):
Last question I have for you.
Okay.
Are you okay?

SPEAKER_04 (56:31):
Yeah.
I'm good.
I'm in a job that I like.
It's challenging.

SPEAKER_01 (56:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (56:37):
Um, but I can think of a hell of a lot worse things
I could be doing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:42):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (56:43):
Are you okay?
I don't know.
It's different all the time,isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 (56:48):
Yeah, it is.
Like from hour to hoursometimes, it seems like.

SPEAKER_04 (56:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:52):
All right.
Well, now that we just bummedeach other out.
Uh before we go, where canpeople find you?

SPEAKER_04 (57:00):
Um, I am Trish Hadleyboudoudoir.com.
I have my Instagram, which I hadtook the boudoir name out of it.
I had me named it Trish HadleyStudios because I thought maybe
AI wouldn't catch me that way,but it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 (57:14):
Well, look for it.
Maybe it'll be there.
Maybe it won't.
We'll see.
I want to go see your dogsagain.
So hang out with them.
So let's get out of the air.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (57:24):
Getting tired of hearing all these noises in my
head.
I can't even make them go away.

SPEAKER_01 (57:32):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
It is created and hosted by me,graphic designer Ed McCall, and
co-hosted by photographer GilMadison.
Mm-hmm.