Ryan Wasson: Another Round

Ryan “Ryno” Wasson (brewer, Head of Beverage at Coopersville Brewing) sits down with Aaron McCall to talk about beer, endurance, reinvention, and learning how to live inside your own wiring. He gets into brewing as both craft and creative outlet, the discipline it takes to keep refining your work, and how running became a way to process life when everything else felt too loud. They talk about curiosity, criticism, relationships, starting over, and the kind of self-awareness that only shows up after you’ve taken a few hits and kept going.

Keep up with Ryan Wasson:
IG: @feedtheryno

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——
This episode is supported by:
Creative Mornings Grand Rapids
Merchants & Makers
——
Writer/Producer/Editor/Host:
Aaron McCall
aaronmccall.net
IG: @aaron_mccall
——
Co-Host/Sidekick/Photographer:
Joe Matteson
themattesons.co
IG: @joe_dustin
——
Music:
"Noises" by Mike Mains & The Branches
——
Support the Podcast:
Buy Merch
——
Follow Bad Idea Social Club:
badideasocialclub.com
IG: @badideasocialclub

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_04 (00:37):
And I was actually out fly fishing with a couple
friends, and I brought a couplebottles, and we had a couple
bottles left in my first batch.
I'm like, but oh don't worry, Igot a new batch.
We cracked them open and I couldjust see the like the smiles
kind of go more level face.

SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Oh fuck, we're gonna have to drink this.

unknown (00:58):
I can't seem to make them go away.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
What is this?
Oh, you don't even have yourfucking headphones on.
Are you good?
All right, everybody, welcomeback to Bad Ideas Social Club.
My name is Aaron McCall.
And I'm Joe Madison.

(01:35):
Uh this time I got to sit downwith Ryan Watson.
He's the head brewer over at uhCoopersville Brewing Company.
The dude lives deep in the craftbeer world.
Um he's he's been brewing foryears.
He's obsessive about process andflavor and experience.
Uh and he's the kind of guy whocan nerd out about beer for

(01:58):
hours if you just let him go.
Yeah.
Um but you gotta give him someguardrails.
He's a very sweet rhino.

SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
I was trying to think of how to make a reference
to the ace ventura scene whenhe's coming out of the rhino
suit.
I was like, nah, I I'm a I'maskip it.
Really?
Because you didn't.
Yeah, I know.
Well, I mean, I wasn't gonna goas like visual as I wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 (02:22):
We'll work something up for socials.
Nice.
You know, he's somebody who'sspent a lot of time figuring out
who he is, both both as a brewerand as a person.
So yeah, you know, we we wetalked about beer and brewing,
but uh we also talked a lotabout endurance and reinvention

(02:43):
and what it takes to really uhget in tune and and uh get to
know yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
So years and years ago, I took a trip to Florida
with my brother Tony and Erica.
It was kind of like aspur-of-the-moment thing, and I
brought the camera with me.
It was like right at thebeginning when I started doing
video, like super early.
Um, anyway, so we go on thetrip, I gather like all this
footage of us just kind of doingstuff, and I'm coming, I come
home and I start editing thisthing.

(03:11):
And in every clip, I am sodismissive of my now wife, then
girlfriend, like just the wayI'm talking to her, it just was
so unacceptably, unacceptablydismissive.
Why were you being such a pieceof shit?
I don't know, dude.
And like something I appreciatefor that experience is like it

(03:31):
like was a total wake-up call.
It was just like, dude, you'retaking this amazing individual
for granted, and the way thatyou're you're acting is
completely unacceptable.
So I say that to say it is nevertoo late to look at who you are
or what you're doing or howyou're presenting yourself, and
to think if there's a way thatis more true to who you want to

(03:54):
be to make adjustments.

SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Coming to that realization that it can't be
like an easy thing to swallow.

SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
Bro, it sucked.
I remember I used to edit reallylate at night and it was dark,
and I was just like kind of likegoing through the footage, and I
was like, I was emotional aboutit.
I was like, what the who thefuck am I?
And who do I want to be moreimportantly?
And from that moment I was like,I will never hear myself speak
to this person I love like thatagain.

(04:23):
What about you?
Is there can you think of amoment that you like stood and
like looked yourself in the faceor just have like a surge of
self-awareness?

SPEAKER_02 (04:36):
Yeah.
For a long time, like I thoughtit was cool to kind of like just
be a day.
And I don't know if it was Idon't know what it was.
I think I think I was just solike self-absorbed and like
trying to be cool.

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
Again, what's the opportunity we have is that we
can always work on it.
Alright, before we dive in,don't forget to follow wherever
you're listening.
Leave a five-star review, anddon't forget to tell your
friends.

SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
Also, this thing runs on merch sales and listener
support and reviews.
So go visit badideasocialclub.com and pick up a
t-shirt or a mug or something.
And uh yeah, here's my here's myconversation with the rhino.
Fuck yeah, rhino the gyno.

(05:30):
How'd you get into gynecology?

SPEAKER_04 (05:32):
It was always a side project for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 (05:34):
You figured why not make it a it was a hobby, it was
hobby for a long time.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 (05:40):
Was president of the uh amateur uh association in
college.

SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
But no, man, uh uh brewery of the year.

SPEAKER_04 (05:49):
Uh what a welcome surprise.
Holy smokes.
I was uh uh was shocked.
Um so actually that day uh wasthe day we had like really bad
snowstorms and if CoopersvilleBrewing, where I where I work
now, uh it's a little farm townbetween Grand Rapids and
Muskegon off in 96, and it'sknown for just horrible wind.

(06:11):
Like when we get a blizzard,like it gets twice as bad there.
So we were all actuallycontemplating staying at the
brewery and just going like toDollar General and getting some
sleeping bags or something.
And we all just like, okay, no,we're just gonna we're gonna be
adults and drive home.
Like, I literally got out of theshower and Steph was just like
walked in and was like justshowed me because Ed was there
and uh basically was like, Oh mygosh.

(06:33):
Yeah, so yeah, I literally justgot out of the shower, then I
started getting calls frompeople, and I'm just like, um,
can I call you back?
I'm gonna need a minute.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Dude, that's gotta be validating as hell.

SPEAKER_04 (06:44):
It's so much so, so much so.
It's been a really busy summer,a lot of hard work trying to get
the beer program, uh, justredialed in and lots of uh
equipment things and onboardingnew stuff and just new team, new
things, and it just it just feltso good, man.

SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
Dude, I mean, especially in a region like West
Michigan, where I mean GrandRapids is beer city USA, and
you're just you're you're rightthere, like to be recognized in
West Michigan, it's fuckingnuts.

SPEAKER_04 (07:13):
Oh, and just just to be at the party with the
breweries that were named.
Um, obviously, always been ahuge City Built fan, just love
what they're doing there.
Just um just to be at the tablewith those people are just
awesome, and all the otherbreweries that were on the list
too, you know, odds, uhfounders, uh, I think Bell's was
on there.
I can't remember who I'mmissing.

SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
Yeah, there were some motherfuckers on the list.

SPEAKER_04 (07:34):
Oh, there were some giants.
I'm like, us and founders, huh?
I mean, we made a meme.
It was the one where it's likeall the cats eating food and it
was like the possum, and it waslike all the other breweries,
and then we were like thepossum.
You know, like that's how itfelt just being this little farm
club brewery.
Um just even be thought of wasan honor, let alone winning it.

SPEAKER_02 (07:53):
So dude, so so is the pressure on now to level up?
Are you gonna are you gonna takea minute and enjoy it?
What's up?

SPEAKER_04 (08:01):
I think both.
Um obviously, like it's it'scool to feel like you're part of
something, but also it's like,all right, game on.
Let's now that we have thisattention, like we've got a
window of opportunity, let'sdeal with it.
So um, let's let's make the mostof it, I guess is a better way
of saying it.

SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
I love that.
So what are we drinking today,man?
I know you brought stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (08:20):
Oh, um, you ready for a beer?
Yeah.
All right.
Uh you want hops or a lager?
You you do a choice?
All right, I'm drinking a car.

SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 (08:29):
Yes.
I brought two of each so we canuh collaboratively uh taste the
beers together.

SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
I love that.
Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
So this is uh Chef Shifty.
Um, it was born out of aconversation between Chef Kyle
Murray and I, um, our chef atCoopersville Brewing, our One
Eyed Pizza restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
Fun fact.
I mean, I I don't know ifanybody listening to this is has
been with us since thebeginning, but we had Kyle on
the podcast very first season.

SPEAKER_04 (08:53):
I was actually thinking about that.
Like some of the people likethat in my world, like I'm like,
oh my gosh, we have so manyawesome like references to
previous episodes.
Yeah, love it.
Yeah, so it was a conversationbetween Chef and I just about
loving um, I'll just say it,Founders Reds Rye, but being
older and uh cheers, man.

(09:13):
Uh not wanting to drink 7% IPAs.
Um, because I'd had a couple formy birthday, stuff and I were in
town.
Oh, that's fucking good.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
Freshly canned.
Uh so yeah, we had a couple uhhad a couple beers before
meeting my parents for mybirthday dinner.
I'm like, it was two is aperfect number, but I just I
wish I could make a crush, youknow, I wish I had a crushable

(09:33):
version of that.

SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (09:34):
Anyway, Chef and I were sitting in the office
talking about it, and it justbecame this conversation, and
all of a sudden it was like, weshould do this.
So I had uh selfishly bought abag of Amarillo hops on sale
from uh Brian Tennis at MichiganHop Alliance, and I'm like, uh,
we're gonna make this happen.
And it was about five and a halfpercent.
Uh hoppy, it's a rye pale ale.

(09:55):
Um obviously not trying to copyRed's rye, but just do our own
little spin on it.
Um, I very much like go in myown direction, but sometimes
it's just fun to pay homage to abehemoth.

SPEAKER_02 (10:04):
So yeah, dude, for so many years, Red's rye was my
favorite beer.
Um, but you know, like you said,it's a it's a it's a
motherfucker.

SPEAKER_04 (10:12):
Yeah.
It'll take you right down, youknow, and that's just the whole
thing.
And with a you know, with it notreally being available much in
packaging to have that for umfor a beer, like like a
pre-dinner beer.
It's like, okay, yeah, two istwo's two's perfect.
I'll drink Sapporo at the sushiplace.
Like that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (10:31):
Dude, so so I want to get into um how beer became
your outlet in your medium andall of that, but of course.
Um first I want the originstory.
Like, what take me back beforeyour head of beverage, take me
back before the awards and allthat.
Like, what like what kind of kidwere you?

SPEAKER_04 (10:49):
Um I was actually a really good kid.
I was extremely shy.
Um, I think uh I'm sure mom'slistening to this, but yeah, I
think she would attest I was ashy kid.
Um, tried to be the best versionof a kid.
I think I was a pretty good kid,so didn't get in a lot of
trouble, but um yeah, justenjoying uh things.
I was big into the outdoors,loved fishing and hunting when I

(11:10):
could and hockey and just normalkid things, like oh Star Wars,
like you name it, all the nerdthings.
I was kind of a nerd in highschool, but love that.
Yeah, yeah, but I felt like Iwas a good kind of nerd, so
yeah, I could have guessed.

SPEAKER_02 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah.
So, how do you get from nerdyhigh school kid to be like, I'm
gonna do some beer shit?

SPEAKER_04 (11:30):
Um, so beer, I always thought beer could be
more elevated than it was in ourcountry at the time.
Um, so uh lucky enough growingup in Holland, uh, there was uh
um like my first like wowexperience.
Like I was really lucky.
My parents never really put beeron a pedestal or alcohol on a
pedestal.
Like I was allowed to have likea beer, but I couldn't go

(11:51):
anywhere.
So usually that ended up likeshooting me in the foot more
often than not because thesecond I would open my beer and
take a sip, it's gonna be like,hey, you want to go out?
And I'm like, but but I justopened it.
And uh um was allowed to havelike one beer or like whatever
for special occasions I got.
And always thought um like Bexor Heineken or those were like
the the cool beers, the goodbeers.

SPEAKER_02 (12:11):
Yeah, the weird ones, right?

SPEAKER_04 (12:13):
Yeah, the unique one, like the things that that
at that point in time were likethe unique dogs.
And uh um, I'll never forget it.
I was like 20, 21 at a party,and I'd had like a six-pack of
like I scored a six-pack of Bexbecause that's was like my jam.
And somebody asked, he's like,Oh, I haven't had that in a long
time, but he had Sierra Nevadapale ale and he traded me for

(12:34):
one.
I took it, and like that was myfirst experience with like a
really hoppy Pacific Northwesthop, hopped uh pale ale.
And I was just like, first sipwas like, Oh my god, that was
horrible.

SPEAKER_02 (12:44):
Was it like or was it like it was what the fuck did
you just give me?

SPEAKER_04 (12:47):
It was confusion at its finest.
I was like, I don't know why Ilike this.
And then um a little bit laterin the party, same guy like,
hey, you want to do that again?
And I was like, uh yeah,definitely.
And then I was also super luckythat New Holland Bruin came in
and started doing some craftbeer in town, and that was like
right when I turned 21.
Uh, so I think I spent some ofmy 21st birthday at the original

(13:10):
New Holland space and just waslike, wow, beer can be this.
And that was when I had that ahamoment and tried to get into
wine because of the culturebehind it, but it just never
really fit me.

SPEAKER_02 (13:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (13:21):
Um, but I loved that, and so I think one of my
pinnacle moments as far as abrewer or a beer person was the
uh when I became a certifiedCicero, was just that I became
like beer's equivalent of asmaller.
And what does that process looklike?
Um, so it's it's a there's fourlevels of it.
There's a certified beer serverthat like a lot of bartenders

(13:42):
will take just to like proveit's like an online test and a
certificate.
Uh to become a certified, it umit was like I studied all summer
for it.
Um call my friends and be like,hey dude, I've got like six
American stouts open.
I'm watching the Tigers.
Do you want to come over andlike taste beer with me?
Um, but the actual exam is likean 11-page written exam.
It's no multiple choice, it'sall short answer essays, and

(14:05):
then you have like a 12-sampletasting exam where you have
off-flavor analysis.
You know, is this beer okay oris it got an off-flavor?
Uh, style identification, isthis beer more of an American
lager or uh German Hellas orwhatever they choose to do?
And then uh the last part was uhfour commercial examples, and

(14:26):
they would spike a couple ofthem.
And the whole like scenario wasyou're a manager at a beer bar,
somebody sends this beer back.
Would you consider would youcontinue to serve it?
Why or why not?
And you had to percent pass withlike uh upper 70s, I believe it
was at the time.
And so yeah, I I took the firsttest.
Uh first test, I like justnailed my written, which I was

(14:47):
super stoked about, but I had acouple snafuos on the tasting.
I think I overthought thetasting, and so I had to go back
and redo my tasting.
But then when I redid mytasting, it was like uh I think
it was like 96% or somethinglike that.
So super excited about that.
And I got to go back to Chicagobecause at the time you had to
go to Chicago to take the test.
So I got to go back to Chicagoand hang out at Half Acre
afterwards, and like walked inand uh chat at Pigeon Hill.

(15:09):
Like him and I were greatfriends in the homebrew days,
and he's like, Oh, I loveChicago, I'll drive with you
down there.
So he was at Half Acre hangingout.
I walked in and he's like, How'dyou do it?
I'm like, I think I nailed it,and he was like, Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
So dude, yeah.
So so when did you even getinvolved with brewing?
Like, like uh when when did whendid your relationship with beer
get serious?
Like who said I love you first?

SPEAKER_04 (15:30):
Um well, it's definitely uh I well, after a
couple beers, it was likedefinitely an I love you man, me
too beer.
Um, but yeah, like I said, Ialways just felt like beer could
be what I now envision it andhow I make it now.
Um, that it could be an elevatedbeverage where for so long it
was, I don't want to saybastardize, but it was kind of

(15:50):
like when I be like when I waslike my early 20s, like if my
parents were like we werehanging out at their house,
they're like, Oh, there's beerin the fridge for Ryan, like
because they don't want medrinking their nice wine, you
know.
And now I'm like, Yeah, sweet.
I love like that.
Um wanted to start homebrewingin my early 20s, had lost my
job, so I um started actuallyfermenting wine.

(16:10):
Um there was a man, uh it wasactually my ex-wife's
grandfather who used to makefarmhouse wine, called him Pip,
which is French for grand, youknow, grandpi or whatever.
So everybody called him Pip.
But Pip made farmhouse wine.
And so I started doing that,just learned fermentation.
And once I uh got my feet backunderneath me and uh found

(16:31):
gainful employment again, Ibought a homebrew kit and
started homebrewing.
Yeah.
And then uh that was probablythat was knocking on 20 years
ago.
Um it was like late 20s, so likenot like 18 years ago, I started
homebrewing.

SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Well, well, what is it about beer and brewing that
um pulled you in?
Like um and what keeps you andwhat keeps you a part of it?
Like, is it the culture?
Is it the is it the the fuckingbubbles?

SPEAKER_04 (16:59):
Uh love that question.
Um it's it's a little bit ofeverything.
It's it's just the variety ofit.
It's um it's the simplicity atthe um complex nature of the
beverage.
Like it's it's something thatsomebody can just come in as a
uh macro beer drinker and comein and try at craft beer and
find something that they like.

(17:20):
Um, but also just the amount oflittle things that you can learn
and do and tweak.
And as a you know, over 12 yearsas a professional brewer, I'm
still like dialing in things,learning things.
Um that's because you're stillcurious, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And it's um, you know, andironically, I never really
thought of myself as much of acreative until approach to do

(17:40):
this.
And I just had that like anotherlittle epiphany.
I'm like, yeah, that's this ishow I do art, man.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Yeah.
And I hope you I hope you lookback and you're like, ah, it's
so full of shit.
I hope you feel that.
I hope it hurts.

SPEAKER_04 (17:52):
No, no, it hurts so bad, man.
Um no, it just was always justlike a thing I did, and it was
it was a cooking, and I'm like,um, now that I'm actually making
recipes myself and doing thingsfor Coopersville, not that I
didn't do that with Pigeon Hill.
Um, so just a little backstoryon my professional tenure.

(18:12):
Um, about 12, I think they'rejust gonna celebrate 12 years
open this March.
I uh was one of Pigeon Hill'sfirst employees, uh, went in to
be a professional brewer, whichI was like ecstatic about
because never really felt thatum that was obtainable for me
because I was uh in sales, uh Ihad a house, mortgage, car

(18:32):
payment, all that, and likecouldn't really go tell my boss,
like, hey, I'm gonna take a sixto eight weeks uh sabbatical and
go train in in a completely nonyou know related industry.
Yeah, you know, kind of gotnoticed as a homebrewer by the
by like Chad and Joel at PigeonHill, Chad Joel and Michael, the
owners there.
Shout out to those guys.
It became a possibility, andthen uh Chris Carr and I kind of

(18:56):
were kind of tapped on theshoulder to help them start
their beer program uh with Chad.

SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
How do you get noticed as a homebrewer?

SPEAKER_04 (19:02):
Um, I think what um made me noticeable was I brewed
a lot with Chad and just likehow I did things, I was very
made a lot of notes, was verymeticulous.
Because I mean, homebrewing is alot of fun and everybody does it
for different reasons.
And I was always doing it toobecause I wanted to replicate.
I wanted to make a beer that Icould make again and again and
again, which is pretty muchpro-brewing.

(19:22):
Yeah and uh I think that's whatI think that's how I got
noticed, that in like workethic.
Like, and I think some of it wasjust luck.
Like I was just the one in thein the herd that got noticed.
Um, I had spent 11 and a halfyears there, and then by kind of
luck and happenstance, found outabout the job at Coopersville,
and it was kind of what I waslooking for, and it was
definitely what I needed.

(19:43):
So man.

SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
Yeah, dude.
So so you you mentioned a formermarriage.
We're not gonna dwell on this,we're gonna spend a lot of time
on it.
But yeah, uh, what I do want totalk about is um well well,
first, how old were you?

SPEAKER_04 (19:54):
Um, so got married super young.
I think I was 23, 24 when we gotmarried, and then married for
like 17 years.
Um, uh got like kind ofseparated during COVID.
Okay.
Uh, so that was a really funadd-on um to that.
But yeah, so yeah, living in theoffice for a couple of years
during uh shutdown was aninteresting part of life, but it

(20:17):
was also um good because it wasa very cordial divorce, like we
both are um still friendly.
We do uh we share custody of ourLabrador.

SPEAKER_02 (20:26):
So I love that.
Yeah.
So after 17 years, it's justlike in an instant, you have to
you have to kind of meetyourself again, I would imagine,
to some degree, right?

SPEAKER_04 (20:35):
Yeah, it was a big reinvention moment for me.
Like I was I was a kid when Igot married.
I like did all the thingsbecause people told you that you
had to do the things, and thisis what happens, and this is
what should this is what you youknow.
Once I got into craft beer, umjust started learning and
becoming like I said, I think Ilike my creative side got open
and I just didn't even reallyrealize it, and just yeah, so

(20:56):
many things happened.

SPEAKER_02 (20:57):
So then coming out on the other side of things, um
like just Ryan.
Uh-huh.
Um what have you learned aboutyourself?

SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
You know, um I that's a great question.
Um I learned um a lot through umcounseling.
Like I learned about my um mybrain.
Uh that's a huge thing.
Um, Steph and I have an a jokingemoji where it's the uh
rhinoceros emoji and uh thebrain emoji, um, like rhino

(21:30):
brain.
Like I learned uh throughtalking to um my therapist that
my my type, my brain type, likeI see all possible outcomes.
Uh that's kind of like he alwayshe always referred to it as like
your super superpower and it canbe your kryptonite at the same
time, which I loved because Iwas a nerd.
So I was like, okay, I like thisguy.

(21:51):
Um but yeah, like I see allpossible outcomes and I of of
like any generic situation,whether it's personal
relationships, businessrelationships, things like that.
And the good thing is, like Ican do a lot of risk assessment
very quickly, um, and also bevery, like, very much planner
brain, very much calculated.
Um, but the downside is you likehave thoughts in your head that
of situations that probably willnever occur too.

(22:13):
So you have to just manage that,balance that.
Right.
Um, and then also like trying tonot be pessimistic in like
business settings, like as faras meetings or planning meetings
and things like that, like thatwas always a tough thing.
But once I had that tool, once Icould actually talk to um that
was a big conversation thatJeremy at Coopersville and I had
when I first started.
I'm like, hey, dude, I just seeall sides of the coin.

(22:36):
So if I come up with things thatNot that I'm trying to be a
pessimist.
I'm probably on board.
I want to do this, but I want tothink through all of this before
we do it.
And also it's hard to jump.
You know what I mean?
Because sometimes it's just likeI'm the kid that sits at the
cliff for forever and overthinksit, you know, not the one that's
like, what could possibly gowrong?

SPEAKER_02 (22:54):
Yeah, I don't even know what to do with my shoes.
I can't possibly do this.

SPEAKER_04 (22:57):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (22:58):
So is is pessimism, or rather, was pessimism your
your kind of default mode?

SPEAKER_04 (23:04):
Um, I feel like I feel like yes.
I feel like what in that wastough because I never really
felt that I was beingpessimistic, but I felt that it
was being portrayed as that.
And I've been really trying tofocus on that, especially with
uh a new like the newopportunity at Coopersville.
Just like, okay, how do I, howam I sounding?
How am I coming off?

(23:25):
Yeah, this is gonna be good.
How am I judging, you know, likeor how am I like I'm getting a
ton of data thrown, or mybrain's trying to like
extrapolate way more data thanit needs to, like, how is this
coming off to other people?
And that's been a huge thing forme in the past, and I'm really
trying to work on like justbeing um just better about like

(23:47):
out, like just having more of aoutview that's just like oh,
let's just see what happens, youknow.
Yeah, and I mean it probablysounds like I'm this huge, like
just gnarly pessimistic person,but you know, I'm like normally
just a happy-go-lucky guy.

SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
Yeah, that's how I know you're yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:01):
So um, but yeah, that's just that's just kind of
was like a big thing that Ilearned and processed in like my
um reinvention, if you will,from like previous life to now
new life, and just so muchawesome stuff has happened once
I kind of learned how to dealwith those things and make those
things.
And I think a lot of times whenuh I have a misstep, it's just

(24:21):
because I revert to that, youknow, as far as like a business
relationship, a personalrelationship.
If I have a snafu, it's justlike hey, I wasn't trying to be
a dick.

SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
Uh you beat yourself up about that or uh too much.
Really?

SPEAKER_04 (24:32):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I'm trying to be betterabout it, just be like, nope, I
you know, I just gotta move onfrom it and just myself wrong.
Oh yeah, yeah.
It's it's been a it's been a bigeye-opening uh couple of years
for me since uh since COVID andthings like that.
And then uh but yeah, like Isaid, this summer's just been a
like a really kind of a coolrenaissance summer, as uh

(24:54):
stressful as it was at times.
There was just a lot of things Ilearned about uh just and it
just kind of like getting like afresh canvas to paint on, you
know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
So dude, how do you take how do you take criticism
when when when someone doesn'tmaybe maybe they don't dig the
painting?
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 (25:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Um so uh forward facing, Ialways, always, always, always,
especially with uh industrypeers, I my thing has been like
if we just stroke each other'segos, nobody's gonna get better.
So let's just be, you know, likeproperly placed comments,
critiques, things like that.
Um I take it very hard becausechances are I've already like in

(25:32):
the case of like a beer, I justlike I'm probably overanalyzing
this already.
And then to get that extra one,it was all it's like it can be
really difficult, but I justhave to remember it's just like
it's you know, it's just acomment.
And then a lot of times too,once I like zoom out and look at
who's giving me the comment, andlike, oh yeah, you're just you
know, you're not a you're notlike coming at it from like a

(25:53):
beer judge or a beer critic,you're coming at it from a um
just naive consumer standpoint,and it's like, okay, yeah, no,
awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (26:01):
Yeah, well, and like who knows what the fuck people
like, right?
It's so it's so subjective.

SPEAKER_04 (26:05):
Well, and that's just it, and I think that's kind
of the beautiful thing aboutbeer.
Um, and like my you know, mytypical dad sayings that I'm
starting to get now that I'm inmy forties, apparently just
comes with age, but um is like,well, if everybody liked the
same thing, it'd be easy becausewe just make one beer, right?
And uh so yeah, it's it isdefinitely like like you said,
it's like it's subjective, justlike anything.

(26:26):
Like uh music, art, like youname it, food.
There's so many things for areason.

SPEAKER_02 (26:33):
This episode is supported by Creative Mornings
Grand Rapids, our local chapterin the world's largest
face-to-face creative community.
Creative Mornings believeseveryone is creative and
everyone is welcome.
Their monthly lecture series isfree and spans over 240 cities
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Visit Creative Mornings.com tosee what's going on with your
local chapter.
And by review, West Michigan'sArts and Entertainment Guide.

(26:54):
Find out what's going on in theworld of local music, art,
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And by Merchants and Makers, acollective of local artists,
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Merchants and Makers puts onmarkets across West Michigan
connecting people with realartists and makers at events

(27:16):
that include food trucks, livemusic, and local shopping.
Visit merchantsandmakers.com forinformation on upcoming events
and how to get involved.
You live beer.
That's a safe, that's a safestatement, I think.

SPEAKER_04 (27:28):
Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
Right.
Uh, but you also run, and I meanlike fucking run.

SPEAKER_04 (27:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Um I've kind of uh so part of myrenaissance, if you will, is
just coming to terms with umaging and like what's healthy
for me for running.
Um I would I I've run um onefifty miler, two fifty Ks, um,
one of which was one of thetoughest, uh, the Barclay Fall

(27:55):
Classic.
So if anybody's into runningthat's listening, you you know
uh it took me a second toregister 50k.
Yeah, so like 30 somethingmiles, yeah.
Jesus.
Yeah.
Um but that was my uh that wasmy life for the long time.
And uh actually it startedrunning um as almost like just

(28:17):
being a my uh my sister had saidshe was gonna do a mini
marathon, and uh which come tofind out was a 5k and I'm like,
oh I think that's a littleshorter than that.
And I just I had made a comment,I was way overweight at the
time.
This was like just at thebeginning of starting to brew.
I was a much bigger rhino at thetime.
And uh, well, if you do it, I'lldo it with you.

(28:39):
And it just the fire got lit andI loved it.
And it just the people I metalong the way, and it just ties
so much into beer.
So, like when I was firststarting out at Pigeon Hill, um,
Run Muskegon was starting,they're the local run club.
Uh Alana, who is Michael's wifeand uh the uh head of like the
front of the house type thingsfor Pigeon Hill, uh, she was one

(29:02):
of the co-founders of that.
So got into that, and I kind ofpulled her aside because I was
in sales before becoming abrewer, and I'm like, oh, all
this work, I'm gonna just shedweight, you know?
And then I realized that youstart doing that, you start
drinking beer, and uh that thatdoesn't happen.
So I was like, I want to do alittle bit more than like a 5k

(29:22):
or a 10k.
I think I want to do a halfmarathon.
So um I trained for a halfmarathon, I loved it.
Was gonna do the riverbank 25k,and then got uh after like a
Wednesday at Run Club after twobeers, got talked into doing my
first marathon because it wasonly it's only a few more miles.
But there's there's there's abeer, there's an op because it
was in Kalamazoo.
So there's an Oberon beerstation and there's a bacon aid

(29:46):
station, like when you go to getlike fuel or water, like
somebody had bacon out, and uhso that was like the the the
convincing point of doing this,and uh trained really hard for
it, did really well.
Um, spent a lot of miles with alot of good friends, and I've
just found more it was moreabout the journey to the race,
and the race almost became thevictory lap.
Um did horrible at that racebecause it was like the most

(30:08):
warm, it was one of the warmestmays.
It was the year that Kailmazuhad the tornado.
So the tornado hit the daybefore.
Um just yeah, did not stick tomy race strategy and uh still
finished the race, but just didnot do as well as I had planned.
Um, and then uh that fall to getredemption, I actually signed up
for the Chicago Marathon as partof the Alzheimer's team to raise

(30:29):
money for Alzheimer's.
Did that in uh memory of mygrandma and uh did way better.
And then ever since then, it wasjust like it just kind of had
took off from there.
So started getting into trailrunning, which I loved even more
because it put me out in thewoods.

SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
See, I feel like that's how I'm gonna hurt
myself.

SPEAKER_04 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And honestly, it just kind ofbecomes like part of the thing.
Like, you know, you're gonnait's like that weird, like it
almost feels like Zen-like, likeyou know you're gonna fall, it's
just gonna happen.
You just don't know.
Get over it.
Yeah, and you just learn to kindof take a fall in the trails,
and that was just I I fell inabsolute love with trail running

(31:06):
because it was just the perfectblend of meditation, uh,
exercise.
Um, and actually I found like,and I think that's why I loved
ultra running so much for aslong as I did, is I would run so
much and I would just thinkthrough so much of my week, my
life, relationships, good, bad.
I'd get angry, I'd get happy,I'd get sad.
And then all of a sudden it waslike you almost thought all the

(31:28):
thoughts because you're outthere for four or five hours
training.

SPEAKER_02 (31:30):
It's just as much about the your mental as it is
the physical.

SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Yeah, your brain just shut down and you were just
like in this like weird, likemeditative zen state.

SPEAKER_02 (31:37):
Just some rhino time.

SPEAKER_04 (31:38):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And then sometimes too, you'dhave uh four or five hours where
you're running with friends andyou just talk about life and all
the fun things and have greatconversations, and and the
snacks are way better at trailrunning.
Like everybody would bring likelicorice and and you're burning
like, and I mean, it's not likeyou're eating good things, but
you're burning so many caloriesthat it just kind of doesn't
matter.
So yeah, so you just it was itjust became uh I joined a group

(32:02):
called the Hobby Jagas, they'rea group that runs out of
Hoffmaster State Park, and Ijust learned I just fell in love
with the the sport and thepeople and just the connections,
and yeah, just it just became myform of uh meditation and
probably escaping a little bitfor that part of my life, and
yeah, it was great, it was agreat off switch.

SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
Dude, your your propensity for um endurance kind
of also explains your love ofjam bands.

SPEAKER_04 (32:28):
Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (32:29):
Because those one of the brothers actually will play
for like 10 hours.

SPEAKER_04 (32:33):
So um I I have a friend who's a big fish fan, and
um there there was a doormatthat I wanted to get for him
forever that it just said itsaid, hope you like 20-minute
tweezer jams, fish song.
And uh and so yeah, Stephactually sent me a uh a uh jam
band meme last night.
I'm like, why does everybodysend me these memes?
But it was about like a20-minute like yeah, oh, this

(32:55):
one's different because this,you know, but um I think
actually jam bands are reallygood for my brain.
Um sometimes they even get alittle long for me, but I think
one of the things I found likeback in the day, and I didn't I
don't think I knew I found ittill I found more about my
brain, but um, there's so muchgoing on that like it's it's
almost like uh like thebilateral stimulus stimulation

(33:17):
in a weird way, where you itlike the music goes through your
brain, right um, and uh italmost like causes you to not
think while you're listening toit.
And so I think in a dumbed downway, that's why I fell in love
with jam bands.

SPEAKER_02 (33:29):
Dude, I love that.
Do you do you find that musicplays a role at all when you're
when you're thinking throughmaybe a recipe or something you
want to do with?

SPEAKER_04 (33:35):
Oh, definitely, definitely.
And as much as I love jam bands,I'm very much into all forms of
music.
I've gone through many differentuh iterations of rhino with
different music.
Uh, was super into punk rock fora long time.
Um, but jam bands were alwaysthe like Grateful Dead was
always the one that was a Jerrywas always there for me.
Yeah, I love that.

(33:56):
Um, and then like uh when fishstarted getting popular when
like when I was in high school,that was cool.
And then uh now goose.
Um, but um I've always I've I'vehad so many iterations of like
uh used to be a huge unwrittenlaw fan.
Uh all my friends listen tometal, so I kind of listened to
metal by proxy, love hip hop,but not a big fan of like some

(34:20):
of the themes of hip-hop.
So I got into super intonerdcore hip-hop, um, where it's
like just a bunch of nerdy,mostly white men rapping about
uh Star Wars and Dungeons andDragons.

SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
And dude, let's crack open another beer and then
and then let's go topic hopping.

SPEAKER_04 (34:36):
Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
All right, what are we what are we looking at here?

SPEAKER_04 (34:40):
Uh so this is our Taskers Pilsner.
Uh so this is kind of a funthing.
This was a big part of my job uhat Coopersville when I first
started, was just kind of takingthe recipes and I gotta get this
sound.

unknown (34:51):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (34:52):
Oh, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
Never gets old.
Um taking it and uh dialing itin.
So uh it's always kind of howdoes it differ?
Um it's it well, so that's kindof the that was kind of the good
and bad.
It's not like I was opening abrewery or working on a brewery
that was opening, so it was likeI couldn't change things too

(35:13):
much because people knew it andloved it, but it was just like
dialing it in, making it tastethe same exact, making it taste
the same every time, and thenjust trying to improve upon it.
So worked on hops a little bitand it's a pilsner, so there's
very little brain in it.
Yeah, it was just like playingwith hopping ratios and how we
did the hops and things likethat.

SPEAKER_02 (35:28):
Is there anything else we should talk about before
we go topic hopping?

SPEAKER_04 (35:31):
No, I think so.
I think we're good.

SPEAKER_02 (35:32):
All right.
Well, let's make a let's take asharp turn.

SPEAKER_04 (35:35):
All right.

SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
Um when you're gone, what do you hope people say
about you?

SPEAKER_04 (35:39):
Oh man, that's great.
Um you know, as simple as it is,I just hope people just remember
me as like a good dude.
That that he was a good friend,he was always there, and I hope
yeah, I hope most of all, likethe that people I love know how
much I truly love them because Ilove so hard, and sometimes I'm

(36:01):
not really great at showing it,or I show it in a weird way.

SPEAKER_02 (36:04):
What do you mean what do you mean you show it in
a weird way?

SPEAKER_04 (36:07):
I'm really good at like I think like the whole love
language thing kicks in a littlebit, um, with obviously like
especially like with partner andthings like that, but um cooking
is love language for me.
So I was like, I love to cookfood for people, and people are
like, oh cool, you cooked, youknow, and you're like, no, no,
no, I just gave you a piece ofmy heart.
Yes, and uh and thankfully Stephis very good at seeing that, and

(36:29):
so that's been awesome.
But just uh just trying my bestto show love, and then sometimes
too, I can because I overthinkthings, I can have a hard time
with uh relationships, whetherit be friendships or things like
that.
It's it's marriages, yeah, yep.
But I'm dumb.
Um when uh Steph and I firststarted dating, it was like I

(36:51):
kind of knew I had more of a mapof my brain, so that was super
cool for that.
But then also just trying to bereally good about that, and then
um uh anxiety, things like that,just making sure that I keep
that all in check and whatever.
But also, like I said, I just Ilove super hard and I'm my own
worst critic, so sometimes it'slike yeah, so I think that's my
biggest fear uh overall would beif like I could like look down

(37:17):
as I'm like whatever floatingaway, and people are like, Oh, I
just wish I I knew how I stoodwith that person.

SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
But I'm like, you know, so like man, I wish you
still had some of his ribs inthe fridge.

SPEAKER_04 (37:28):
Yeah, I wish he would have shown me more love.
But his ribs were great.
Like, that's what I was tryingto tell you.
But yeah, no, I so I try to sayI love you more, just even in uh
that's huge, you know, uhfriendships, business
relationships, like theappropriate level things, like
just trying to share that moreopenly.

SPEAKER_02 (37:46):
Yeah, that sounds man.

SPEAKER_04 (37:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Um finish the thought.
Okay, creativity requiresdedication.

SPEAKER_04 (37:55):
I think when you're creative, it's um you need to uh
stay through.
Because if I would have justlike if I would have gone off my
first batch of beer, um I wouldhave been like, yeah, I'm no
good at this.
So I think just tell me tell meabout your first time real
quick.
Actually, you know what?
Um I was actually listening tosome back podcasts about, and I
think you asked Joe Short thesame question.

(38:16):
I did.
And uh honestly, my first batchof beer, because I'm such a rule
follower, like I grew up on onLego sets too, being a nerd.
So I'm like, okay, this is theyou do the steps, you do the
things.
And first one actually did notturn out that bad.
Now, if I could go back in timeand try it, I might tell you a
different story now with my beerpalette now, but um it actually

(38:37):
turned out really well.
Um, the second batch, trainwreck.

unknown (38:41):
Really?

SPEAKER_04 (38:42):
Train wreck.
What was it?
Um, so it was comp so lookingback, um I think the homebrew
shop that I had gotten it from,uh, the yeast was really bad in
that they give you in the pack.
So I learned a valuable lesson,like check validity of your
yeast.
And I think that's something youstill, you know, that's huge in
my world.
Um, and uh clean, you know,cleaning, sanitation, all that

(39:05):
stuff.
Because I think it was just kindof one of those like I got like
lulled to a false sense of hopewith the first one.
And and not that I wasn'tmeticulous on the second
go-around because also I'm Dutchand I'm like, hey, I just spent
all this money on this.
I gotta make this good.
Um, but yeah, no, the second oneI was actually out fly fishing
with a couple friends, and Ibrought a couple bottles, and we
had a couple bottles left of myfirst batch.
I'm like, but oh don't worry, Igot a new batch.

(39:26):
We cracked them open, and Icould just see the like the
smiles kind of go more levelfaced.

SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Oh fuck, we're gonna have to drink this and look at
him in his face.

SPEAKER_04 (39:34):
We got the homebrewer in the boat with us.
Good thing we brought a 12-packof coors.

SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 (39:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
All right, what would your what would your last
meal be?

SPEAKER_04 (39:43):
Oh.
Depending on where I was at,like, in eating, it would
probably be something.

SPEAKER_02 (39:53):
Um wait, wait, wait, what is that?
What do you mean where you're atin eating?

SPEAKER_04 (39:56):
Well, like if I just had Mexican food before, I
probably wouldn't say.
I see.
But I'm a huge fan, I like Ilove authentic Mexican food.
Like just like I just lovewatching YouTube videos of uh
somebody's abuela cooking food.
I've learned I've learned likecooking Spanish enough to where
I can like at least roughlyunderstand like somebody could
talk to me in Spanish, I'd belike, I have no idea what you're

(40:18):
saying, but like in the kitchensetting, like I know what you're
taught.
Like um, so I I've just againfood being a love language and a
newfound hobby.
Once I started brewingprofessionally, um I love I love
all things Mexican food.
And then I also have a hugeaffinity for Chinese food.
So if I had just had Chinesefood, it would probably be
Mexican.
If it was like I just hadMexican food, it would probably

(40:39):
be Chinese.
Or but yeah, but overall I woulddefinitely say probably tacos.

SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
I love it.

SPEAKER_04 (40:43):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (40:44):
I love it.
Um what's the what's the best orthe worst advice you've ever
received?

SPEAKER_04 (40:50):
Um I'll go with the worst.
Um and it pertains to likerelationship.
Well, that just happens.
You should that's just how youshould feel at this phase in
your relationship, you know,like because feeling like a
relationship had gone off thephone.

SPEAKER_02 (41:08):
That just feels like bullshit.

SPEAKER_04 (41:09):
Yeah, and it just it just it just reeked of it.
Um that and then um this wasalways a great one.
Um, there's never a good time tohave kids.
Or never a good time, you know,because it'd be like it's just
never having kids.
That was always the like you gotasked by all like family member,
you always had the one and kindof like a like a uh like you're
never gonna be ready, just doit, get it.

(41:30):
Yeah, just do it, yeah, you'renever gonna do it.
And I just remember um that gotbrought up a lot, and it was
just like, no, just trying tofigure out where we're where
we're at with things, and yeah,and that was always like you you
don't know where we're at, likedude.

SPEAKER_02 (41:43):
And I so when you said there's never a good time
to have kids, like you know, mywife and I made the decision
we're not having kids.
Yep, and I was like, Yeah, no,that's great advice.
That's that's perfect for me.
There it there is never a goodtime to have kids.
That said, I'm the best uncle inthe world.

SPEAKER_04 (42:00):
Yep, and me too.
I I've been super lucky.
Um have uh twin niece and nephewthat are actually in college
now, so that makes me feel oldas that's fucking gnarly, yeah.
Um, and then um just so manythings, you know, and then um I
get to hang out with uh Steph'sadults on Nate, and that's a

(42:21):
really great vibe, too.
Not that it's you know, becausehe's all grown and all that, so
it's not definitely not like astepdad thing or anything of
that nature at all, but it'she's such a good kid.

SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yeah, God, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 (42:33):
Yeah, so there's there's that fun part of it, but
yeah, never never had anyinkling.
Um, I mean when I was younger,because there again, you just
like felt that was the thingyou're supposed to do, get
married and have kids, right?
And uh right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:43):
There was uh that was the map, right?

SPEAKER_04 (42:45):
That was like the next step in the okay, you're
married now.
How how many years till you havechildren?
You know, and it just never feltright.

SPEAKER_02 (42:51):
Dude, I remember I remember when Sarah, my wife, um
first, first was like, Yeah, Idon't I'm I'm not in I don't
think I want to have kids.
I was kind of like, Can you dothat?
Are you allowed to do that?
Wait, is there isn't there arule?
Because if you can do that, Iwould like to not do that.
I would like to not have kids.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (43:08):
This this will work okay, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (43:10):
Like I like to go, like we, I mean, you know this.
We're we're we're big uh uhDisney World people, we're
fucking Disney adults, and Iwear that with a with a with a
with a badge of honor, man.
Um I could not imagine taking akid there.

SPEAKER_04 (43:25):
That sounds terrible.
Well, and also, too, I'm I'mguessing going as an adult and
just seeing like the perplexityof meltdowns.

SPEAKER_02 (43:35):
Dude, let me tell okay, so my favorite one ever
was we were leaving MagicKingdom at the end of the night,
and uh maybe like not even 10feet in front of us, there was a
mom and a kid that was probablya little bit too old to be in
the stroller, uh-huh, but theyprobably just had a 13-hour day.

SPEAKER_04 (43:53):
Whatever.
And they were like, Yeah, youride the stroller.

SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
Yeah, and uh, and uh he kept dragging his feet, you
know, and so the mom's like,pick up your feet, pick up your
feet.
Now, this is when I realizedthat the mom had also just had a
13-hour day.

SPEAKER_01 (44:10):
Because she just dumped that motherfucker out of
the out of the stroller and waslike, walk, and then just backed
it up and walked away.

SPEAKER_02 (44:19):
Oh and I was like, God, like like I just looked
over at Sarah and I was like,we're doing fine.

SPEAKER_04 (44:24):
Yep.
This is great.
This is okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:29):
Ryan, what would your what would your walk up
song be?

SPEAKER_04 (44:32):
Oh, I love this question.
Um obviously coming from a jamband background, like That's not
really like walk-up music, butum you can find the rhythm.
Yeah, yeah.
Um as sad and as dirgy as it is,I think Black Muddy River from
The Grateful Dead, but that'slike the slowest, so it wouldn't
be like the super hype song.
Otherwise, um I would sayprobably Fets Vet from MC Chris.

(44:56):
Um Nerdcore rapper.

SPEAKER_02 (44:58):
Yeah, sing it to me.

SPEAKER_04 (44:59):
Uh Cruzimo Cespa in Mandalorian, The War is Over, My
Pista Mandalorian.

SPEAKER_02 (45:04):
Um what makes you feel most like yourself?

SPEAKER_04 (45:12):
You know, I think it's just it's more of just a
vibe or a feeling.
I think it's just like whenyou're comfortable, um, when
you're surrounded by loved ones,uh, good food, good beer, good
conversation.
It could be a friendship, it canbe a partnership, like a
romantic partnership type thing.
But I think it's just it's moreof just a vibe or a feeling.

SPEAKER_02 (45:31):
Yeah, it's the warmth of the people you love.

SPEAKER_04 (45:33):
Yeah, I just get like that good cozy feeling.
Um, I can't explain it um otherthan it just it just my brain
shuts off.
I always tell stuff like mybrain shuts off.

SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
It's easy, you don't have to be on.

SPEAKER_04 (45:43):
Yep, exactly.
And that's that's where I ammost comfortable.
And it's usually at home, um,especially when Murph, my
labrador, is with me, and uhSteph's hanging out, and we're
just and we can just be like shecan be jamming on her laptop, I
can be cooking food, and wecould just maybe have a record
on or something like that, orwe're sitting in the backyard

(46:04):
just hanging out.
It's like my brain shuts off,and that's where I'm like just
the most comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
Man, when when Murph's not there, or do you do
you go crazy a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 (46:12):
So I'm like home alone alone now because Steph's
in Florida visiting her family.
And so Murph was with me lastweek, and uh I dropped him off
uh at uh Sarah's my my ex isSarah as well.
So not to be confused withSarah.
Um dropped him off on uh Monday,and so like Tuesday night, like
I was like going to bed and I'mlike, okay, that and just not

(46:36):
having a dog wake you up in themorning.

SPEAKER_02 (46:37):
I'm fucking quiet right now.

SPEAKER_04 (46:39):
Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 (46:41):
Dude, my my uh my dog Winston, he's he he's he's
been doing this thing um for acouple weeks now because we like
rearranged our room and now hecan kind of get to my side of
the bed really easy where hejust wakes me up in the morning
just by putting his chin top ofmy bed, and then just like he's
like maybe an inch away from myface.
And the only reason I know he'sthere is because he's breathing

(47:02):
on me, and I can and I can and Ican feel the I sense a presence.
Morning, bud.

SPEAKER_04 (47:09):
Yep.
So Murph will do almost thesomething similar where but he's
like the most it's like I wantI'll call it passive aggressive,
but he'll come in and he'll likehigh step like clacky on the
call tap dancing, but it's justlike I'm coming in, I'm making
noise, and it's like, oh, you'reup, dad.

SPEAKER_02 (47:30):
Oh, I didn't know you would be awake.

SPEAKER_04 (47:32):
Oh, fancy meeting you here.
And it's like, what do you need,buddy?

SPEAKER_02 (47:36):
Ryan, do you have any regrets?

SPEAKER_04 (47:39):
I wouldn't say any regrets.
Um definitely things um in life,if I could go back and redo
them, I would do them, redo themdifferently in a heartbeat.
Because like I said, I the andthat's why I think I'm so hard
on myself when something does gowrong in a personal
relationship, whether it'sfriendship, whatever, because I
in hindsight I see the thingsand I'm like, oh, I handled that

(48:01):
like and I'm like just my worstcritic to start with, and then
when you have the interactionwith friend, partner, whatever,
you're just like, yeah, I'malready kicking myself in the
nuts, like you know.
Um, but I don't really haveregrets because I I I think I
hopefully learn from all those,and I try my best to never

(48:22):
repeat behavior.
But I mean it happens, I'mhuman, but try my best to be
like be even if it's a smidgebetter, if I was a if I was a D
minus last time, hopefully I'm aC plus this time, and then
hopefully next time I'll be I'ma B minus kind of situation.
Yeah.
And that was always the thing.
Like I always as a kid, like,would do something stupid and
just be like, oh, I wish I couldgo back and take that back.

SPEAKER_02 (48:41):
And it wasn't that I regretted it, it was just that
like fuck, I wish I learned thislesson in a different way.

SPEAKER_04 (48:48):
Like the old, yeah, you're gonna be dumb, you gotta
be tough kind of thing.
Um, no, so yeah, definitely Idon't think there's really
anything I regret, um, otherthan like trying to like express
my creativity like earlier on inlife.
But I think overall, no.
I just it just definitely someif if I got some do-overs, I
would definitely go back andselect the top five, or if I got

(49:09):
five do-overs, I'd go pick thetop five and get some do-overs,
but no regrets, man.

SPEAKER_02 (49:14):
I love that.
Um last question for you.

SPEAKER_04 (49:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (49:18):
Are you okay?

SPEAKER_04 (49:19):
I'm almost there, man.
I'm almost there.
I'm doing really good.
Doing really good.
And uh, new job and things likethat are doing great.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (49:27):
Things are looking up.

SPEAKER_04 (49:28):
Yes, I'm I'm super excited for the next chapter.
And like I said, I'm uh I'm at aB minus, like a my analogy
previously.
So I'm I'm looking forward togetting to that A.

SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Well, you said you said you're in therapy.

SPEAKER_04 (49:39):
Yeah, you're you're I want to get back into it.
Um, I'm gonna try my best.
Um, and so yeah, that's I lovethat, dude.

SPEAKER_02 (49:46):
I'm so happy you're taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_04 (49:47):
I'm so happy you're on and it's okay not to be okay.

SPEAKER_02 (49:50):
So cheers of that, man.

SPEAKER_04 (49:52):
Yeah, cheers.

SPEAKER_02 (49:54):
All right, dude.
Um, before we wrap this up,where can people find you if you
want that?

SPEAKER_04 (50:00):
Oh, yeah.
Um, so um obviously at thebrewery in Coopersville,
Michigan, Coopersville BrewingCompany.
Um all our Coopersville socialsare under that.
Uh One Eyed Pizzas OurRestaurant, um, where uh the
infamous Kyle Murray reigns.
Um, but my Instagram, it's justa personal Instagram, but feel
free to check it out.

(50:20):
It's called uh uh it's at feedthe rhino.
So because like I said, food ismy language, so yeah.

unknown (50:27):
I love it.

SPEAKER_04 (50:28):
Yeah, but other than that, that's kind of kind of it.
But yeah, if you ever uh ifyou're ever at Coopersville,
come and say hi.
I'd love meeting new people andchatting beer, love nerding out
about it.

SPEAKER_02 (50:36):
So it's my favorite.

SPEAKER_04 (50:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
I love it so much, dude.
Thank you so much for doingthis.
Oh, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it.
It's amazing.
Thank you for bringing beer, bythe way.
I'm surprised.
Can you imagine some peopledon't bring stuff?

SPEAKER_04 (50:47):
I think everybody should be uh required to bring a
beverage and talk about thebeverage.

SPEAKER_02 (50:52):
So no, I'm fucking around.
But dude, thank you so much.
Yeah, of course.
Anytime let's get out of here.
All right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 (50:57):
Chicken Todd of him and all these noises in my head.
I can't seem to make them goaway.

SPEAKER_02 (51:05):
Bad Idea Social Club is an independent podcast made
possible by merch sales,reviews, and listener support.
And it's created and hosted byme, graphic designer Aaron
McCall, and co-hosted byphotographer Joe Madison.
Music is noises by Mike Mains inthe branches.
Get Bad Idea Social Clubwherever you get your podcast.