Matthew Whyatt Brings Consultative Torque to Tech

Matthew Whyatt has spent decades selling technology to giant corporations, governments, and industries so tangled in bad processes and duct-taped infrastructure that half the employees are basically performing digital exorcisms just to keep the systems alive another week. In this episode of Bald Ambition, Matthew joins Mookie Spitz for a sprawling, sharp-edged conversation about SaaS panic, AI hysteria, consultative selling, corporate paralysis, and why most tech companies are accidentally talking themselves out of million-dollar deals.

The discussion starts with the bloodbath in SaaS. Salesforce gets hammered. DocuSign stumbles. Every LinkedIn prophet with a ring light insists that “vibe coders” and AI agents are about to replace entire software companies by Thursday afternoon. Matthew calls BS. Big companies are not handing mission-critical infrastructure to something stitched together over a weekend by a guy running espresso shots into Claude at 3am... Trust still matters. Relationships still matter. Distribution still matters. And most executives buying enterprise software are less interested in technical wizardry than avoiding career suicide if the implementation explodes.

That leads into the real meat of the conversation: how enterprise sales actually happen. Matthew explains why his strategy at Tech Torque involves consultative discovery sessions that expose operational pain points clients barely understand themselves. Warehousing managers fighting new systems. Technical founders drowning prospects in jargon. Businesses trapped in “that’s how we’ve always done it” thinking while ancient Excel spreadsheets quietly run the company from the shadows. Instead of leading with features, Matthew teaches SaaS firms how to sell outcomes, reduce fear, and navigate the political minefield inside large organizations where one skeptical middle manager can vaporize a seven-figure deal.

Mookie and Matthew also get into the psychological side of technology disruption: why AI simultaneously terrifies and seduces executives, why white-collar workers suddenly look more vulnerable than tradespeople, and how companies lose themselves chasing hype cycles instead of solving obvious problems sitting directly in front of them. There’s a hilarious detour into Australian culture, rowing, American competitiveness, social class, and why the United States still feels like a place where people can wake up one morning and decide to reinvent their lives from scratch.

Underneath the jokes, profanity, and mutual abuse sits a pretty brutal insight: AI can absolutely help companies move faster. It can also help them execute dumb ideas at breathtaking speed. If leadership is confused, disconnected from customers, and addicted to buzzwords, no machine is going to save them. The businesses that survive this era will be the ones that actually understand their people, understand their clients, and stop mistaking technical complexity for intelligence.

The Guest

Matthew Whyatt is the founder and Chief Sales Strategist of Tech Torque Systems, where he helps B2B software and technology companies cut through hype, sharpen their messaging, and close bigger enterprise deals. He launched his first software company at 22 and has spent more than 25 years building businesses across software, IT, consultancy, and franchising—including companies generating over $100 million in sales. Before founding Tech Torque, Matthew served as CEO of Velocity Sales Training LLC alongside renowned sales expert Bob Urichuck, helping develop sales systems used by Fortune 500 companies, government agencies, and international organizations.

His Company

https://techtorque.co

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Bald Ambition Podcast.
I'm your bald host, MookieSpitz, and I'm thrilled to have
the founder of Tech Tork on thepod today, Mr.
Matthew Wyatt.
Wyatt with an H.

SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
We spent the extra money, got the H.

SPEAKER_03 (00:17):
That's good.

SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
That's good.
Is it like quiet?
Quiet.
That's right.
Quiet.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
It's a whoa quiet, quiet.

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
So hopefully you're not quiet today because we can't
wait to hear about what you'redoing for SaaS companies in
terms of boosting their salespotential.
I've had several guests doingdoing sales.
They're plugging in AI, they'replugging in the tech.
Sounds like you're torquing withthe tech.
And I'd love to hear what youdo, how you're different, and

(00:51):
how you're moving the needle.
Because I know SaaS companiesare having a hard time right
now.
Take a look at the US stockexchange.
Woo! What a ride for Salesforce.
Getting brutalized, aren't they?
Having a crisis.
They're struggling because umagentic AI technology.

(01:14):
There's a fear that the bots aregonna be doing this work for
companies and bye-byesubscription model.
So let us have it, Matthew.
What what the hell is going on?

SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
Well, first of all, thank you for having me on the
bold ambition uh podcast.
I'm almost there.
Like it's uh I've I uh I'm veryvery close.
Like this is all just uh youknow smoke and mirrors at the
moment.

SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
It's all relative, Matthew.
When you when you've got abaseline at zero, then uh a
little bit of fuzz like what youhave now.
And if if if you're on audio,give you the picture of a of a
little a little crop top there.
And if you're on video, itbecomes instantaneously
self-evident that Matthew's gotan edge.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
That's right.
Gold just a slight one.
Well, look, you know, when itcomes to uh just thinking of
I've been thinking about thiswhole issue when it comes to
SaaS and SaaS businesses gettinggetting hit by the stock market.
You know, the stock market isnot really a great barometer of
business success because reallyit's about sentiment.
Uh so uh, but I'm not ananalyst, uh I uh I don't even
play one on TV, so I can'treally speak very intelligently

(02:21):
about it.
What I do know is that um is thefact that when it comes to
selling and marketing, when itcomes to growing a business
today, really the the key factoris no longer features.
Features are no longer a featurein the sale.
And I speak with a lot ofclients, and we're just about to
release this feature, do thatthat that upgrade, this API,
whatever it might be.

(02:42):
And at the end of the day,they're still going to be
competing against outcomes forclients.
And so they're competing foroutcomes for clients, but also
what they're what largebusinesses are not going to be
trusting their most importantdata or data.
Uh, sorry for my Australianaccent.
Uh it's um, I've only been inAmerica for about nine months,

(03:05):
but uh, you know, so uh they'renot gonna ex they're not going
to trust their most importantdata to something that was vibe
coded over the weekend with moresecurity holes you could drive a
truck through.
So so the two key factors thatSaaS businesses still have is
the fact that they have gottrust and the fact that they've
got distribution.
And those two factors togetherwill continue to see those

(03:28):
businesses succeed.
Obviously, the uh the the lowerend of the market who don't
really want to pay the$80 or$100a month, they're not gonna pay
it.
But corporate, anything above$20million is not gonna be chucking
Salesforce out to get somevibe-coded thing that can, you
know, from Claw.
That's just not gonna happen atthe moment.
Now, um, Salesforce is is tryingto keep up, obviously.
They're doing headless stuff,they're they're really trying to

(03:50):
drive it forward.
It's I think it's a I think themedia are really good at uh
radicalizing people.
Uh and so really it depends onhow you want to um which side of
the political divide, financialdivide, business divide,
whatever way you want to sitthere is they find themselves in
a situation where they're justgonna be uh it's a good

(04:10):
headline, right?
So um it it sells newspapers.
I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Can I add a third to that, which is experience within
the vertical?
Oh man.
So so you you mentioneddistribution as being a factor,
and coupled with that, there'sexpertise.
You need to know the businessenvironment, you need to know
your clients, it's a clientrelationship, business, it's not
just plugging in the bots toyour point.

(04:35):
So I I I agree with you.
I think it's a little bit hyped.
The hysteria has been a littlebit heavy, and the whiplash
shows because stock prices aregoing back to more or less where
they were.

SPEAKER_03 (04:48):
Yeah, that's right.
And look, you know, I can growmy own tomatoes.
I don't.
I go to Wegmans and buy them.
So, much like AI, you can buildyour own bots and it can do all
of these things, but you knowwhat, there's professionals out
there that can do the jobprobably more effectively at a
better price point.
You know, I um I found myselfcaught up in the excitement.
I got myself an account withLovable.

(05:10):
I have a um uh a product that Iuse and I've been paying three
or four hundred dollars a monthfor for about a year and a half.
I thought, you know what, thisis not that smart, so I can do
this myself.
And so I got myself a$50 a monthsubscription, then I needed the
API, which is$200 a month, thenI needed this thing over here,
which was another$85 a month,then I needed to actually learn
how to deploy things throughDrusal and this and that.

(05:32):
And I found myself spending daysand days on building this thing
to save myself$300, and it madeno sense.
So um, so really I uh I did uh Ithink products like Lovable and
Base 44 and those sort ofproducts are gonna find
themselves while stillcontinuing to gain new clients,
they will they will burnexisting clients just as quickly

(05:53):
because you can't you you're notgonna be able to deploy at
scale.
And I've been I started my firsttech business in 1999.

SPEAKER_01 (06:02):
That's the Yahoo! the Yahoo.com era.

SPEAKER_03 (06:06):
I I started in the dot-com era, absolutely, and I
loved it.
I surfed that wave for for for awhile, and we were in a living
in Australia at the time, and Iwas in an industry that wasn't
terribly affected by the by thebust, so we we kept surfing that
wave for many years.
So really it's um it it the thethe trust that you can build
with a client base and thendeliver over and over and over,

(06:28):
because recalcitrance is afactor when it comes to business
and recalcit.
So so really it's it's also whenI'm dealing with large
corporates and I'm helping myclients sell to large
corporates, it's very rarelyabout better, faster, cheaper.
It's it's it's almost actually,I'm gonna say it's hasn't for a
business if you're selling to abusiness over$50 million revenue

(06:50):
or higher, if you're selling ifyou're selling to a government
agency, city council, any ofthat type of stuff, it's no
longer about better, faster,cheaper.
It's about looking good andcovering your ass.
I'm sorry to um to be close toswearing there.
Because the the people makingthe purchasing decisions are not
they're not playing with reallytheir own money.

(07:12):
The people making purchasingdecisions are worried about
their career, and they'reworried about what the board's
gonna say if it blows up.
And uh, and Mookie, you and Iare old enough now to remember
that we used to there used to bea um a saying uh you nobody gets
fired for buying IBM.

unknown (07:29):
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (07:29):
Yeah, but look what happened to IBM.
Eventually, but none of thosepeople got fired for buying it.
And so, really, you know, sowhen you so when you're selling,
you need to demonstrate thateven if it so because because
okay, for example, a Toyota,nobody's gonna get fired for
buying a Toyota because toybecause there's so much evidence
that a Toyota is gonna lastforever, it's gonna last so
long, it's gonna be resold tothe Middle East and then be used

(07:52):
over there.
So it's it's gonna be it's gonnabe you're gonna have this car
forever until you actuallydecide to sell it, it's not
gonna break on you.
So, what that means is thatnobody's gonna get so if you
have a product or service thatyou've got so much evidence out
there in the marketplace thatdemonstrates that you're an
excellent choice, even if itblows up, it's no longer the
product or service, it's oh wellthat's an anomaly.

(08:15):
And that's where the trust comesin.

SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
I'm aligned.
I think that the hype andhysteria, by definition, was
overblown.
I agree with you that the SaaScompanies aren't going away and
gonna be replaced by a bunch ofvibe coders in a garage.
And uh, I think that the clientrelationship and expertise
within each respective verticalis what really carries the day.
So you could vibe code the hellout of something.

(08:40):
And from a technical vantagepoint, to your point, it could
potentially increase efficiency,cut costs, and do everything the
SaaS more or less does.
But what you're losing is thatexpertise, you're losing the
accountability, and you'relosing the client relationship.
So this AI transformation is notonly technical, and it's

(09:00):
contingent on disruption havingan impact on staff, on
management.
These are human beings in a veryhuman environment, and you can't
just flip the switch and expectthe bots to do everything.
Correct.
SaaS is here to stay one way oranother.

SPEAKER_03 (09:18):
Yeah, but I and I'm but I'm not a Luddite at all.
I I am the sort of person thatlooks at the market and look,
tries to look over the hill alittle bit, and you know, I've
grown my business, but I haven'tneeded to bring on any new staff
in the last year or so because Iam taking bits and pieces of the
production of, you know, in mybusiness and uh production in my

(09:38):
clients' businesses, and I nolonger have to employ a, I don't
have to employ new people forevery new client.
I have the existing high-skilledpeople who can manage multiple
clients.
And I and I have built AI insidemy business that can perform the
activities that I might havedone in the past that would take
me away from new clientacquisition.
So uh whilst I have neither Ihave not downsized anybody uh or

(10:02):
or I've removed any roles, I'vejust not increased any roles
because I've become moreefficient.

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Yeah, scalability is one of the benefits.
And to your point, it's a hybridapproach.
You understand the client, youunderstand the business, you
understand what's going on, youprovide that consultative
relationship.
It's not features, it's thebenefits, it's the relationship.
And then you take advantage ofthe technology without rejecting
it or selling your soul to it.

(10:30):
So let's be specific.
We've been talking in theabstract, and I think we're
trending with all the lines thatmake sense, and our listeners
and viewers are likely familiarwith this, but what do you bring
at tech torque to differentiateyour value proposition and
integrate this hybridizedapproach that you're talking

(10:50):
about?

SPEAKER_03 (10:51):
Well, simply put, uh, I've been in the seat of my
clients.
Uh, that's really the the partthat I have lived in.
I started my first tech businessat 22, grew that to a reasonable
level of success, and have soldthat off and and built it more,
sold that off, took a year offto live in Bali, uh in
Indonesia, and then came back.
And I've been asked, and I wasjust I was sort of brought back

(11:13):
to help a friend out to fixtheir sales team because I was I
was because their sales team waslagging, and I found a little
niche in doing that, and then Istarted to realize that people
really didn't want the salespiece of what I was selling in
Australia.
What they wanted, what peoplethink they need sales, they
think they need marketing help.
They actually need selling help.
So marketing is the aeroplane.

(11:35):
If you've got kids out therelistening, you know you have to
make the aeroplane noise to feedthem their vegetables.
Marketing is the airplane noiseI make to feed them sales.
So um, you know, come for thecome for the leads and stay for
the actual education how toclose a deal.
So um, so we help our clients.
So typically we help softwareand technology businesses sell

(11:56):
more to the right people.
And we live at that strategylevel.
Uh, doesn't, you know, I don'ttalk about we we deploy you know
hundreds of thousands of dollarsworth of Facebook ads, and we
deploy, you know, Google andwhatever other activities that
might occur, uh, but it has tobe within the context of the
customer.
You know, I've got a customerwho is one of the very largest
uh ERP providers, uh enterpriseresource planning providers in

(12:19):
Australia.
Um, I've got another one who'san investment bank in New York.
I've got another one, you know,I'm I'm across all these
different businesses.
And what's interesting aboutthat is that there are some
similarities in the differences.
There's similarities in becausesales and business is not a B2B
or a B2C exercise.

(12:39):
It's a H to H.
It's a human to human.
Businesses don't buy things,people buy things, and so that's
why marketing still works, whymarketing is not math.
There is a function of mathmarketing that is math, there's
a function of selling that ismath, but at the end of the day,
it's still a human buyingsomething to extend their career
or achieve a KPI.

SPEAKER_01 (13:00):
Let's get tactical for a second, because I
understand your strategy, butwhat exactly do you do?
Because you're describing amulti-channel or digital
strategy for a company with badbuys, with content strategy,
with channel affinity and allthat.
That sounds like media to me.

(13:22):
And then I've had guests whosupervise and better manage
actual sales forces, you know,human to human, as you
mentioned, using AI to helpmanage better profile
salespeople, that kind of thing.
So can you can you describe yourtactics so we better understand

(13:44):
your strategy?
Where do you fit in this mix ofsales, sales booster shot for
B2B?
Got it.

SPEAKER_03 (13:53):
Okay.
So essentially, my customers areat a point in the inflection
point.
I'll tell you about mycustomers, then you'll get some
more context around this.
So my customers are in, youknow, my cut, my best customers
are ones that have just achieveda certain level of success, a
couple of million dollars worthof revenue, they've sold to
friends and family in referrals,and they they recognize it's now
time to put the foot down ontheir sales and marketing

(14:14):
activity.
They typically, if you'reselling SaaS in many in any
vertical, I've for the lastdecade I've worked across, you
know, what warehouse everything.

SPEAKER_01 (14:23):
These are SaaS folks, and you're helping SaaS
companies better connect withtheir clients.
Correct.
That's right.
So it's very much a B2B, yes,and it and it's a sophisticated
consultative B2B because you'vegot these software as a service
providers and you're hookingthem up with the right company

(14:45):
in the right way to plug intotheir model.

SPEAKER_03 (14:48):
That's right.
Often it's actually softwarewith a service.
So it's not just buy the thing,you know, so go online.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
So from Matthew Wyatt.

SPEAKER_03 (15:01):
That's right.
So it's it's very none of myclients are this are the sort of
client that you can just go onand buy their thing for$99 a
month, uh, click a button, putyour credit card details
through.
Bob, that's that's not the worldI live in.
I live in the world where youknow, we're selling, like my
clients are selling togovernments or corporates, and

(15:21):
they're a they're a small team,they've got a real solution that
solves a genuine problem.
They've typically come fromindustry, and they go, you know
what, I'm gonna go out and tryto attack and approach these
types of businesses.
How do I how do I look at thesky the skyscraper and go, I
need the person on the 33 secondfloor of that building.
How do I do that?
And that's the bit that I comein.
Okay, so I will, so I will, youknow, talking super tactical,

(15:43):
right?
Let's get right down to it.
You know, we'll take over there,uh, we will help them post
useful thought leadershipcontent.
Doesn't sound very doesn't soundvery brilliant, but we'll do
that piece.
We'll also generate leads.
We'll we'll put the advertisingin through LinkedIn or Facebook
or whatever it might be.
We'll sit there and make surethat there is a sales process

(16:03):
thought all the way throughbecause marketing occurring in a
bubble does one thing, which isgenerate leads.
But unless you actually can selland then expand, so land and
expand uh type of strategy whenit comes to these types of
businesses, we need to and thenalso breaking down the sales
process.
So typically I will actuallytell a sale a customer so if
there's any software ortechnology businesses out there

(16:25):
and you sell a large thing, alarge product or service, see if
you can break that down into asmaller constituent pieces and
sell pieces of the product, sellpieces of the consulting as a
pre-consulting piece, becauseselling software is difficult.
It requires getting it past thechain.
Tip of the sphere.
That's it, tip of the spirit.
Exactly.
So how you do that these days isby selling a piece of consulting

(16:47):
because people will buyconsulting significantly at
significantly higher rates thanthey will buy software.
Because software requires thethe IT guys and girls to get
involved, they need to changeadvisory, they've got to get all
this thing, and the businesschanges.
It's a huge pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_01 (17:01):
Infrastructure switch it, switch a roo.
And then consulting, well, youknow, I need this tweaked or
that, and then you know, you getin the door, you show you're
smart, you show you understandtheir business, and then you
upsell.

SPEAKER_03 (17:12):
Correct.
And you become a vendor.
Uh, look, you know, we I wasworking with a company selling a
um uh uh mining softwaresolution, and they hadn't they
they couldn't make this, theycouldn't break through because
there were so many people, therewas 20 or 30 people in the whole
process that could say no, andone or two people that could say
yes.
So what we did is we we justwent ahead and you know, all of
these people had need to believebefore they all turned their

(17:34):
keys at the same time.
So we went and did a piece ofconsulting.
Uh, we found out that a personon site could spend about$30,000
on consulting.
So guess how much our consultingwas?
$29,500.

SPEAKER_01 (17:48):
And an astonishing coincidence.

SPEAKER_03 (17:51):
An astonishing coincidence, right?
And so what that meant is thatwe could then go out on site and
it wasn't necessarily you knowdoing the the intricate
discovery of all of theirsystems.
Of course, we knew how to dothat because we the customer had
been doing that for for 25years.
The real issue was the Heartsand Minds program because Barry,
in distribution, the last timethey tried to put something in,

(18:13):
took it, flung the iPad to theside, and picked up his
clipboard again and said, Thisworks, this never crashes,
nobody can hack this.
And so that's what stopped this,stops a million-dollar sale many
times.
Is there's a there's Barry's andJoann's in there and Michael's
over here to go, you know what?
Screw you guys.
I'm just gonna go ahead and keepdoing my work.
My job is I'm I'm hitting myKPIs, everybody else can get

(18:35):
nicked.

SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
So your tip of the spear sounds like uh
consultancy-driven discoverykind of session.
So do you do you look under thehood, you spend some time?

SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
Yep, it's a paid, it's a paid service.
Uh, it's it's it is essentiallyso we we name it, we brand it,
we we we put a brochure aroundit, and we sell that.
And so when a person says, hey,will it plug into my this API?
Does it come in blue?
Will it talk?
Does it do it in Spanish?
You know, uh, how manyPortuguese, whatever it is.

(19:07):
Though these questions createbot the bog you down, and
technical people are masters ofthe universe when it comes to
asking really niche technicalquestions.

SPEAKER_01 (19:16):
That's how their brains are wired.
They're they're they go from thebottom up.
That's how that's how theythat's what makes them good
coders, good texts, good uh goodtechnical people.
And it's the exact opposite ofstrategic thinking, which is you
look at the entire chessboard,you know how all the pieces
move, you know the rules of thegame, and then you set it loose

(19:39):
for a while to see how it how itsimmers.
But technical folks don'toperate that way.
It's like line 36 has arecursion.
What are we gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_03 (19:50):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And that's why we that's whyit's dangerous to wade into
those waters because there'llalways be a smarter person on
the other side of the tablewho's got more industry
experience, more knowledge oftheir own business than you will
ever will until you're a vendor.
So you don't you say you youdon't sell them the the you sell
them the outcome?
And then the technical canceris, well, that's a great

(20:11):
question, Joanne.
We'll discover that and we'llmake a decision together during
our scoping discovery process.

SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
And you're hunting for pain points.
So what a lot of clients don'trealize is really the mess that
they're actually in.
And then once you look under thehood, it exposes challenges that
they themselves didn't eventhink about.
And the art of consultativeselling is to have that
conversation, listen, extractthe pain points, and then craft

(20:42):
a solution of which what you'reproposing isn't a sell.
You're not convincing them tobuy something they don't want,
but you're building a sense ofurgency and inevitability.
So they're like, Yes, I have tohave that because now I know
what a mess we're in.

SPEAKER_03 (20:59):
Very rarely do people realize that they're
victims of Stockholm syndromewhen it comes to their own
systems and procedures andprocesses inside their business.
They go, Well, that's how we'vealways done it.
And it must be the right waybecause that's how we've always
done it.
Well, somebody made that upyears ago using an Excel
spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
Yeah, another guest described it as there's there's
been there's every company hasthis.
There's the employee who's beenthere 10, 15 years, and they've
been jerry-rigging with maskingtape and and and nylon the the
integration.
And there's APIs flapping in thewind, and they have a big

(21:36):
gargantuan spaghetti bowl mess,and this person knows
everything, and they're fixingit.

unknown (21:42):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
And that's the exact opposite of what you want in
terms of integration,scalability, interoperability
fixes, and just redesigningthings from the ground up to
make it make more sense.

SPEAKER_03 (21:53):
Those people have typically got two or three
assistants now because and whathappens is they, you know, often
they get paid.
More because they're nowmanaging people.
They're desperately needed.

SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
Peter principal to do even more damage than they've
been doing in their in theirprior role.

SPEAKER_03 (22:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know what, you've justgot to find those people and
help them understand thatthey'll actually be better off
and they'll look better at theend of the day if they're able
to implement your solution.

SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
The big offering that you're doing is a
consultative discovery sessionto look under the hood and
create a relationship with theclient.
So one of the central themes ofthis podcast is consultative
selling.
And that's the essence of whatyou're doing.
To the point you made earlier,it's the opposite of a
commodity.
Commodity is transactionable,disposable, led by features,

(22:43):
maybe a few advantages, and youdon't really care about the
client much.
And it's usually driven based onprice.
That's right.
I want it cheaper, faster,better.
Let's go.
And consulting is the exactopposite.
It's time consuming.
You go in deep, it's expensive,but it's proportionally much
more valuable, which is you'reextracting real insights about

(23:06):
the business.
And most importantly, to yourpoint, once you build trust,
create the relationship, seewhat's under the hood, then you
have a unique perspective interms of providing a custom
solution that could bring aboutthe most benefit and that you're
ideally suited for.
So just like you had the miraclehappen where you have a budget
of 30k for the for the session,you hit it at 29.5, all of a

(23:27):
sudden you expose issues thatyour tech torque solution is
ideally suited to fix.
Perfect.
Exactly.
Would you like a job?
Sounds like you nailed it.
Can you describe to me this inoperation?
And now that we've set it up,downstream, can you share maybe

(23:48):
a case study or an example ofhow you've delivered and then
the benefits that have come tothe lucky, the lucky customer of
Tech Torque?

SPEAKER_03 (24:00):
Obviously, every customer and every client have
their own um uh needs and wantsand desires.
Uh so I'll I'll stay with thatcustomer I was speaking about
earlier in the mining sector.
So uh we were selling uh it wasa million dollar a year product
selling to the largest companiesin the world, uh the largest
mining company in the world andthe largest uh uh uh what do you

(24:20):
call it?
Um, distribution company, uhsorry, trading company in the
world.
So giant organizations withmassive multiple layers and
multiple billions of dollars.
And so what we did is werecognized that client wasn't
really selling uh many and theyweren't selling any in the last
couple of years before I gotthere.
Uh, I was brought in to have alook at their sales and
marketing process and realizedthat they needed to um stop

(24:43):
being the smartest guys in theroom.
The problem is that the thegreatest challenge that a lot of
technical people have is theyare the smartest guys in the
room by by by a long mile by along way, and which is
intimidating for clients, andand also the smartest guys in
the room rarely have the abilitythe time or the crayons to
explain it to them, uh to theircustomers.

(25:05):
And so they needed somebody withyou know what isn't as smart as
them, that's me, uh, to be ableto take theirs in take their
brilliance and distill itthrough their messaging and
their marketing and theircommunication and then present
it back to the clients in theformat in which they did.
So uh to just to wrap thatlittle case study up, they
hadn't made a sale in aboutthree years before I got there.
Uh that's they were living very,very well on the on the

(25:27):
recurring revenue from theirexisting businesses.
Absolutely, that they werecrushing it.
Uh just being really clear aboutthat.
And then by the time I'd left,after a couple of years, they'd
sold six new pro uh uh six newmine sites, which are all you
know hundreds of millions, youknow, tens of millions of
dollars each in recurringrevenue over time, and you know,
all the all the contractsrenegotiated.
So, really, it's about steppinginto the client's shoes,

(25:50):
understanding exactly what theyneed, and then delivering that
back into the market.
Uh, so it often my clients veryrarely have the they have
incredible technicalcapabilities so they can manage
other technical people.
I've seen some of my clientsstand in rooms with a whiteboard
and explain to their technicalteam, and I'm sitting there just
half understanding it, not evenhalf, maybe a quarter

(26:11):
understanding it, but I'm therefor the I'm there for the
knowledge transfer, watchingthese guys map stuff out,
incredibly complex things on awhiteboard, and go, this person
is absolutely in their flow.
They're perfectly designed toteach this technical stuff to
this technically people, thesetechnically brilliant people.

SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
But you put them in front of a client, and that
communication doesn't work.
It it often backfires horribly.
What's interesting about yourapproach is it's meta.
So you're you're a sales expertfrom a consultative vantage
point.
We just talked about that, andyou use your sales expertise to
get your clients.

(26:47):
Once you get your clients, in asense, you're teaching that same
mojo to them so they can gettheir clients.
100% like I like thattrajectory.
So, what what people often mixup is is again features first,
and technical people are featuredriven, they're all in the code
swimming around.

(27:08):
And what's obvious to them is acomplete chaotic disaster to a
decision maker ultimately on theexecutive team because they
don't know how that stuff worksand they don't care.
What they want is when you plugin whatever it is, I look at it
as a black box.
Here comes my tech stuff, plugin that IT, and all of a sudden

(27:31):
the lights are on, and it's aChristmas tree, and I'm getting
getting the business that Iwant.
They do not care, and I thinkthat's very hard for a lot of
technical people to understand.
They need to sell in theirbenefit, but at the end of the
day, most executive decisionmakers, even chief technical

(27:53):
officers, the CTOs, maybe,maybe, maybe they'll get it.
But their concern is to yourpoint earlier, the corner
office.
They need to keep their bosshappy who's the CEO.
And if it's lost, and if it'slost in translation, the deal's

(28:15):
not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 (28:16):
I was speaking to a client today and they said, What
would you do?
I said, Well, first of all, I'veknown your business now for 45
minutes.
It's ridiculous for me to makeany type of recommendation that
you couldn't find on Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
First of all, let's start with that.
So, but really, what we have torecognize is that it the way you
enter a business is rarely howyou're going to exit the
business.
When I say exit, you're going towin the sale.
Because you might get in throughprocurement, or you're sorry,
you might get in throughwarehousing because they've got
a warehousing issue.
But how does warehousing issuethat your solution can solve,

(28:46):
how where does that warehousingissue show up for the next layer
up at maybe at the technicallevel or at the logistics level
or at the financial level or atthe CEO level?
Because every one of thoseexperience that same problem
differently.
So the CEO is interested inmarket share and reputation.
The CFO is being told to do morewith less.
And CFO's really got his eyes onthe prize being CEO.

(29:09):
And then the CTO is being toldto make sure I don't hear about
any problems because and I'm notthat interested anymore.
And so every type ofcommunication, you can't hand
the same document to thewarehouse guy or girl and expect
that document to survive therelay race of being handed one
person to the next all the wayup to the decision maker or
procurement or the CEO, itdepends on the business and how

(29:30):
it's structured to buy things,for them to go, oh, I get it,
I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 (29:34):
Exactly.
So you need a different pitchfor different targets.
And one of the biggest mistakesmade in tech is they're giving
specification documents todecision makers who have
absolutely no idea what you'retalking about.

SPEAKER_03 (29:51):
Yep.
Last time they wrote a line ofcode might have been 10 years
ago if they're a CTO.
And so they're gonna they'regonna pick out the bit that they
think they know of.
And remember, you know, I'vespoken to clients as well who
they go, so how do you identify?
How do you see yourself in themarketplace?
How do you how do you representyourself?
And and they sort of looked ateach other in a bit of chat chat
and went, Oh, we're problemsolvers.

(30:12):
And so, cool.
What does a problem solver needto need to survive?
And they just looked at eachother and said, Well, if you're
a problem solver, what do youneed?
What do you desperately need?
Problems.
Right.
So so then everything youeverything I hear back from you,
everything that you're saying,you're gonna you're gonna hear

(30:34):
what I say, you're gonnaintelligently break it down and
find the problem.
And so this is why selling isdifficult when in a technical
situation, but you can certainlyget through that if you have a a
a same side of the desk sort ofpositioning.
Well, let's approach thisproblem together rather than
let's problem, let's approachthis problem adversarially.
But then, of course, you need toalso then point your energies,

(30:56):
both you and your champion,towards the next layer up in
management and then and thepurse strings.

SPEAKER_01 (31:01):
Yeah, you bring up a terrific point that if you're
selling based on features, theold example is if your face is
facing one way, then your ass isfacing the other.
Then you're naturally gonnaraise a tsunami of objections
that you otherwise never wouldif you turn around.

(31:23):
Stop showing your ass to thedecision maker, turn around,
look at it through the lens ofwhat they expect, how they
interpret the situation, andyou're gonna avoid the
roadblocks and the landminesthat usually come up when you're
selling, not understanding whatthe decision maker or even the
influencer even wants from you.

SPEAKER_03 (31:44):
Absolutely.
Well, there's you know, there'sthere's there's stages in which
people buy things even today,and that they translate to every
stage.
So, step one, light of thesalesperson.
What does that sound like in alot of situations?
No thanks, we've already gotone.
Or thank no thanks, justlooking.
You know, go to the shops withyour with your wife, or with my
I go to my shops with my wife,no thanks, just looking.
You know, how can I help youtoday?
No thanks, just looking.
That's crap.

(32:05):
I hate that.
We're looking for this, we wantthis in this size and colour.
And that, of course, theexperience of shopping and is
different for for me and mywife.
I go to buy something, she goesto shop.
Um, so uh, that's prettyarchetypal there, Matthew.
That's right, yeah.
So step one light of thesalesperson.
The second step is to get asmuch information as possible
about every part, point, speed,feed, every, and that's called

(32:28):
get free consulting.
Tell me everything.
So I don't need to buy anythingfrom you.
Right.
Tell me so much that I can findone hole in your story, which
means I don't have to think toohard and buy your product.
Because nobody's sitting aroundgoing, gee we'll really hope I
get to spend the next six monthsimplementing a new product.
Nobody wants that.
And so the third step is lie tothe salesperson again.

(32:51):
What does that sound like?
Send me a proposal.
You know, I just, yeah, I'llI'll I'll send me a proposal,
I'll put it to management, allthat sort of stuff.
And I was speaking with a clientjust the other day who was
saying, you know, why are weselling what we're sending out
proposals but we're not closingdeals.
And there's only two reasons yousend out proposals and not
closing deals.
First, you're selling theproposal.

(33:11):
So you you know, you've doneyour pitch, you've not really
got much feedback.
You go, can I send you aproposal?
The person says yes.
And really the yes is thankgoodness I can get off the phone
now.
Or um they're not feeling thepain.
It's it's low pain, or you'reselling the proposal.
It's the only two reasons, youdon't make a sell.
So we need to change those, howwe how those operate.

(33:33):
Too much detail in the proposal,too much, too much, too many
areas in which a um an areacould be, you know, I don't like
that, I don't want that, I don'tI've already got some of these.
Because if you get into tactics,that's why in my advisory, I
don't talk about sales, I don'tsorry, I don't talk about
Facebook leads or I don't talkabout doing content because oh
well with Facebook I can get anagency with with um uh content I

(33:57):
can get uh ChatGPT to write mesome crappy articles, which
we're all enjoying on LinkedInat the moment, I'm sure.
Uh you know, and everywhereelse.
And everywhere else.
So it's all of that.
And then and then of course tofinish that off is the fourth
part is to hide from thesalesperson.
So the four stages of a sale,how people buy.
And once you understand howpeople buy, then you can then
you can short circuit that bywith with scripting, with

(34:20):
practice, with structure, withprocess.

SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
Let's talk about scripting in terms of content
strategy.
Now, the old school method isbig sale, 20% off today, make
your move.
The consultative approach isbased on on listening, building
up pain points, and and creatingthe relationship that way.

(34:45):
So when you're advising yourclients about anything from,
let's say, a LinkedIn orFacebook ad or content, or
you're even scriptingsalespeople in terms of their
engagement, how do you look atthat trajectory that you just
outlined through content?
Do you have opportunities atthat tip of the spear to not

(35:09):
just highlight end game?
Like, you know, here's thetypical thing is that you roll
into a used car lot and you'refresh meat, and then the
salesman comes out old schooland says, Hey buddy, check this
out.
It's an AMFM radio, leatherbucket seats, and a 325 Hemi.
Come on, test drive.
And what you're doing and whatyou're espousing is, how are ya?

(35:32):
Is it for you?
Are you married?
Are you a single guy?
Do you want a roadster to youknow get feisty?
Or do you want to go to thecorner and pick up a gallon of
milk for your wife?
I mean, you're creating arelationship.
So when you're advocating whatyou're advocating, how does it
layer out?
Or what's that continuity ofcontent strategy that ties into

(35:56):
the phased approach that youjust described?

SPEAKER_03 (36:00):
Not a single one of my clients has been worse off
because of them going more andmore narrow into a niche or a
niche, as you say over here.

SPEAKER_01 (36:08):
Niche is so American, isn't it?
Nietzsche, it's French, right?
I mean, I'm a dumb American.
And there's no T in there.

SPEAKER_03 (36:15):
I mean, it's not like it's not like glitch or
bitch, it's niche.
It's gonna E, which whichaccentuates the vowel in the
middle.
But anyway, let's like an interthing.
Yeah, it's so uh Welcome,welcome to America.

SPEAKER_01 (36:30):
I'd love it.
You know what?
Uh people make fun of theAussies for you know for your
action and for crocodile,Dundee, and all that stuff.
And as Americans, we lose sightof that the whole world makes
fun of us.

SPEAKER_03 (36:44):
Look, you know, it's uh it's a great place as long as
you don't watch the news.
Uh and I've been here now fornine months, and I think I'm
more positive about America thana lot of Americans are.
I have uh I'm a member of someclubs here in town, and you
know, I live in Princeton, NewJersey now, uh, and I'm a member
of some clubs here.
And yeah, people ask me, and Isaid, Well, how what's been your

(37:06):
experience?
And I said, Look, it's beenfantastic from day one.
Everybody's been so nice, soeasy to get along with.
I ask a question, they answerit.
It's almost uh in the firstcouple of months being here,
people would go out of their wayto help.
They were just so open andfriendly, and and uh I think
Americans as a whole are arefantastic people, certainly

(37:26):
very, very friendly.
And the you know, of course,dealing with any large, you
know, trying to get a socialsecurity number is hilarious.
Uh, you know, as a as a50-year-old man walking into
social security for the firsttime, that's um that's an
amazing experience of people whoare you know you are male and
caucasian, so you you have youhave an advantage, at least

(37:47):
currently, I think.
That that's right.
You know, I I have joked to afriend of mine that said, uh,
you know, when will it be mytime?
When will it be a uh white maleborn in Australia, privately
school educated?
When will it be my time?
You know?

SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
Terrific Louis C.K.
skit where he goes, look at me,I'm a fat, balding white guy.
It's been great, it's beengreat, it's been great forever,
and you know, sooner or later,we're gonna get our ass kicked,
and we deserve it.
But until then, woohoo!

SPEAKER_03 (38:23):
It's gonna be great.
That's it.
Well, um, yeah, my boys are uhare playing sport at a very
reasonably high level now herein the States, and uh, you know,
they get to meet everybody, youknow, uh in elite sport, it's a
uh it's it's fascinating.
And uh and you know, I I justthink that America is such an
incredible meritocracy.
There's so much opportunityhere.

(38:45):
Uh doesn't matter.
You could work it, okay.
The whole machine, and this isthe whole machine is set up like
a lot of countries, but thewhole machine really is angled
towards the top 10%.
Everybody else is gettingscrewed.
But if you're if you but thegood thing is there's no
barriers.
Okay, once again, this is my uhas as the young people might
say, my privilege might beshowing.

(39:05):
Yeah, but I don't believe thereare really any barriers.
If you're willing to put thework in, work your ass off with
a with a with and add value andexchange value for money, then
there's no barriers to gettingto that 10%.
Like I've got clients in fromother countries who have a um
you know a class system so bakeddeep that it doesn't matter how

(39:25):
hard you work.
Whereas the whereas here, as faras I can see, uh, and and I of
course I'm always uh open tobeing uh having a conversation
about that, it just seems to bethere's so much opportunity here
to um to to to do whatever youwant to do and and make it.

SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
Love, love your perspective.
As Americans due to theheadlines, we're getting we're
getting all negative anddefeatist and this country
sucks.
And yet the the lifeblood ofthis country, even in terms of
our polarized politics, we'relike we're we're we're we're
bold, we fight it out, we're alittle bit irrational in ways,

(40:03):
but to your exact point, themeritocracy still shines, and
it's really our differentiator.
Just just go for it, try it.
Wake up in the morning and gofor it.
And you have the perspective ofof being from another country,
literally the Antipodes.
Your your sky is the opposite ofours, and your seasons are the

(40:23):
opposite of ours.

SPEAKER_03 (40:24):
That's it.
Your moon is upside down when Ilook at it.

SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
You're from an alien place, but uh that perspective
is very important, and Americanslose sight of our distinct
ability and willingness andenthusiasm to just go out there,
kick ass, take names, andthere's no guarantee of success,
but you got a shot.

(40:48):
You got a shot, you got a shot,and that's that's great to me.
That's America.
I'm the first generationAmerican.
My parents are Hungarian.
Okay, and they fled the cauldronof World War II by way of
Venezuela.
I was conceived in Venezuela, soI'm technically an anchor baby.
I was born just barely inChicago, and I grew up not

(41:09):
speaking English, so this iskind of I'm a stranger in a
strange land here, at leastinstinctively.
And uh I have that feeling toothat anything's possible here,
just go for it.
It really is.

SPEAKER_03 (41:22):
Yeah, go for it.
And I was actually speaking ofAmerican and American sport and
the opportunities here.
I was saying to a friend uhtoday, I'm absolutely blown away
that because Australia has areputation for being very good
at sport, you know.
When in at the Olympics, youknow, we we're up there, rugby,
of course.
Rugby Mofos.
Yeah, that's it.

(41:42):
So we're we're we're pretty goodat sport.
You know, we we've had a numberof world titles across a lot of
sports.
And the what I'm blown away isthat if Australia put the amount
of money, time, energy, andeffort and focus into sport that
America does.
Oh, let me put it flip it theover.
I'm blown away Australia has anychance at sport because of the

(42:04):
amount of support, money, focus,and energy that goes into sport
in America.
My son Rose uh and is uh was ina pretty good team in Australia
uh for the school, and he uhrode twice a week and then on
the weekend had a regatta andthe season went for seven weeks,
and so they really rode forabout maybe 12, maybe 12 weeks a

(42:25):
year.
And they did two practices aweek.
Here he rose, he rose threehours a day, six days a week,
no, no, no seasons off, 12months a year.
Now, is he better?
Absolutely, but there's noAustralian 15-year-old rowing at

(42:46):
that level, at that level ofdedication.
So I'm so an Australian womanwinning a gold medal in rowing
is bizarre to me now that I'veseen what how how America does
it versus how the rest of theworld does it.
You know, there's there's anthere's a mechanical industrial
complex there, of course, youknow, also that goes, well,
there is a there's a financialbenefit there, the coaches have

(43:08):
got to get paid, the sheds havegot to get paid.
So there's it's like it it's ait's a machine that needs to
feed itself, so therefore itneeds to continue to be fed.

SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Detractors will say we're pouring hundreds of
millions of dollars just intosports because it's got ticket
sales and media.
But let's say you're into chess.
Americans love their chess too.
Is it broadcast nationally andis it a ticket five grand, you
know, for the box seats?
No.
But we have the critical massand enthusiasm and this

(43:41):
competitive streak that pickalmost anything that you're
into.
America is the land ofopportunity.
Become a chess grandmaster, goon OnlyFans and make a few
bucks.
It's what whatever suits yourfancy.
I have that literal.
Libertarian streak in me too,which is just just go for it.

(44:03):
The only person stopping you isyou.
And unlike frankly, a lot ofEurope, which is still
recovering from World War II,frankly, the mentality of
self-victimization, mentalitythat capitalism is evil, and and
uh and and it's self-destructiveand self-defeating.

SPEAKER_03 (44:23):
Well, it's that baked, it's that baked-in class
system that is is is deeplyingrained, right?
So, oh well, I'm a you know, I'mI'm I'm a tradesperson, so I'll
always be a tradesperson, and somy kids can grow up to be
tradespeople, and hopefullythey'll their kids will be
tradespeople.
And that and funnily enough,although into the age of AI, uh
tradespeople will be the well,tradespeople in Australia have

(44:45):
been rich for for a long timeanyway.
Uh so tradespeople in Australiahave been, you know, they're the
ones with a yacht.
Uh and uh and and it's becausewe don't really because
Australia is mainly uhresources, right?
So Australia builds on uh realestate, and and those friends of
mine who are tradies ortradespeople, uh tradey, there
you go, that's an Australianism.

(45:05):
Uh they're doing real well.
They're doing really well.
So it's it's that's not gonnaever take well not it's gonna be
a long time before that's takenby AI.

SPEAKER_01 (45:14):
And that's that's the irony.
The original conception ofrobotics, the Andrew Yang crowd
felt that the the the lowerechelon worker would be hit
first, and they were they didn'tanticipate the agentic
technology, and it looks likethe the white-collar coders are
the first to bite it.
And it's it's paradoxical, butvery, very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (45:38):
Yeah, if you move, if you as Elon said, if you move
atoms around, you've got abetter chance.
A very tweetable line.

SPEAKER_01 (45:44):
Now we're on AI, and I want to I want to get your
thoughts on that.
We're all blinded by thebullshit right now, almost
everyone.
And it oscillates from ifsomeone builds it, then everyone
dies, one extreme, to AI is afad and it's meaningless, and
it's hyped by all the companiesjust to get a trillion dollars

(46:05):
in data centers.
Now, the truth, as usual, is inbetween and oscillating.
Two things can be correct at thesame time, exactly.
Sometimes three or four,actually.
So I ask you this just becauseyou're working in a market,
especially with SaaS, wherethere's so much uncertainty and

(46:26):
no one is really feels likethey're standing on firm ground
like they used to.
So, how do you negotiate with orhow do you handle a potential
customer where they're theythemselves are utterly confused
by all this and asphyxiated tothe point where they're
paralyzed?

(46:46):
It's like I can't make adecision because everything's in
flux.
I don't know whether I need to,to your earlier point, vibe code
my Slack channel, or or just uhdouble down on my Salesforce
commitment because they're theonly people I can trust.
How how do you negotiate thisworld of such swirl, disruption,

(47:12):
chaos, and uncertainty?

SPEAKER_03 (47:14):
Uh the same way that my I coach would uh coach my
son's basketball team is if it'sall falling to bits, go back to
basics.
Get your fitness up, pass theball, run a play.
So, how what does that look likein business terms?
What is true?
What is true, not what we thinkis going to be what is true?
What is true is you have clientswho are getting value.

(47:36):
And uh funnily enough, in in thetimes in which I've had tough
times in business, and andanybody says they don't are you
know an anomaly or lying.

SPEAKER_01 (47:44):
Everyone thinks the career is this meteoric rise,
it's that old chart, and whenwhen it's really like that's
right, even the richest man inthe world.

SPEAKER_03 (47:52):
I've quoted it twice now.
Even the richest man in theworld says having a business is
like uh you know, chewing glassand staring into the abyss.

SPEAKER_01 (48:00):
Some of us last night.

SPEAKER_03 (48:02):
Yeah.
So that what is true?
So we're looking for what istrue, and if you're adding
value, so how I used to get outof those funks is I would
actually call my best clientsand say, How are you going?
And typically they're it's howare you enjoying the product?
And they would tell you.
And you go, Oh, so this, so andso just so I can understand,
what were the two or threethings going on in your business

(48:24):
that you that was happeningbefore we engaged?
And how has it changed now?
And how would you like it tocontinue to look like in the
future?
Well, if you do that, there'syour new marketing campaign
right there.
That's your conversation you'regonna have with your next
client.
So, oh, you're in logistics andyou do refrigerator transport in
the Midwest.
Cool, I'm just gonna call allthe refrigerated logistics

(48:45):
companies in the Midwest andsay, hey, I know that you're
dealing with this.
So, how do you deal with it?
Look, I'm I'm not a psychologistuh by any stretch of the
imagination.
I have um, you know, I'll I sortof you know grit my teeth and
push through because it reallyuh I think Tom Brady said it.
Um actually I won't say I won'tswear, but he said, F your

(49:05):
feelings.
Um, get on with it.

SPEAKER_01 (49:08):
Mira guess f-bombed on one of my podcasts, and then
I noticed Apple podcast of allof them.
I'm I got this explicit ratingon bald ambition.
I was like, what the fuck?
And then I I actually contactedcustomer service.
It's like we don't talksexuality, there's nothing.
I was like, oh, we we looked atthis transcript, there's f-bombs

(49:31):
in there.
I go, you gotta be kidding me.
I'm explicit because someonesaid fuck, and they're like,
Yeah, and then I say, Well, whatif you know I I stopped saying
fuck on my podcast?
And they're like, that's toolate, buddy.
You're already explicit.
So so go ahead, fuck fuck yourfeelings from time.

SPEAKER_03 (49:49):
So remember, uh, remember uh back in the 90s that
they had the uh the explicit thewarning, the parental warning on
CDs.
So then so then uh albums usedto come out with that printed on
it because that became a badgeof honor because that's what
people wanted.
So now you're cool, now you'repart of the cool kids, like all
the cool kids are swearing.

SPEAKER_01 (50:09):
I'm the explicit podcast that you're right.
Maybe I'm getting listeners too,and they have like a bald fetish
or something, and they see it.

SPEAKER_03 (50:19):
That's funny.
Yeah, very good.
So go back to what's true, havea conversation with your best
clients, and then um then reallyit's it's try not to look too
far into the future.
Do too, don't too much do toomuch sort of crystal ball
gazing.
What's the next thing that canbe done?
What's the correct next move?
And it might be a small nextmove, but that's those little

(50:39):
next.
So I've got this greenhighlighter in my hand, right?
This is gonna sound like this isgonna sound like a really
non-technical way of approachingum task management.
Uh, but I have a list of thingsto do every day, and then I get
and I highlight them off mylist, and I go, and and every
time I highlight them, I get upand do a little dance, which is
ridiculous, which is a dumbthing to do.

(51:01):
But you move, I move my body andthey go, I have just rewarded
myself for choosing a webinartitle for next month.
You know, and so I do the smallthings because you continually
execute on the small things, andthe big things will look after
themselves.

SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
I think that's terrific, especially these days,
where there's a natural humantendency to freak out and go to
extremes.
Like something is just mildlybroken or inconvenient.
I have a 19-year-old, my son,and he's my roommate as I help
him get through flight school.
He's learning how to be a pilot.
I'm so proud.
He's doing great.

(51:37):
But but I see him, I see himlike this, like every five
minutes, every 10 minutes.
He makes these earth-shatteringexistential decisions, and then
he comes in and he makes anannouncement.
I'm gonna quit my job, I'm gonnaget a new job, I'm gonna change
flight schools.
I don't know about this flyingthing, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna
commit 120% and I want to be apilot in two weeks.

(51:59):
And and it sometimes, minute tominute, he's he's flaring.
And and there's a tendency tothe point we're making right now
that when you have a lot ofdisruption in business, there
are knee-jerk reactions to thelatest headline, the latest
news.
And you feel that if you don'tmake radical change or if you
don't do something crazy, thenyou're gonna be left behind.

(52:22):
And then there's anotherwhiplash to that, which is I'm
paralyzed and I can't doanything because this is all
overwhelming.
To your great point, what's yourto-do list for today?
And and the issues that youhave, which have been probably
endemic to your organization fora decade, are dying to be
solved.

(52:42):
And explore the lowest oflow-hanging fruit that that that
do not demand a completeinfrastructure overhaul and
start fixing things and call,walk, run.
And this is about Stephen Coveybusiness advice 101, but it's

(53:04):
true, it's it's a cliche, butit's true, and it's a cliche
because it's true, and it'strue, so just do it, which is
don't freak out and figure itout.

SPEAKER_03 (53:14):
Absolutely.
So it is it is so it's it's easyto to be to feel uh uh
overwhelmed by the options, andthen if you just if you did, you
just go, you know what?
Let's go talk to my team, go tohave a conversation with a real
human.
Don't don't look at your phone,certainly don't check your

(53:34):
email, or just slack.

SPEAKER_01 (53:36):
Don't ask Claude or ask Claude after you talk to
your own people.

SPEAKER_03 (53:40):
That's it.
Yeah, have a conversationbecause I because the the
answers are in inside the brainsof the people that you already
work with.
Uh I found that you know whenI've had my uh businesses, you
know, we had 70 staff at onestage.
That's a lot of people thatcould that are all thinking
about the same problems and andtrying to move the business
forward.
And when I realized that in mymid-20s, that actually I can I

(54:01):
can engage.
I read the Jack Welsh book.
Uh there's a story of JackWelsh.

SPEAKER_01 (54:05):
The legendary C O.
He was the Satya Nadala of theprior generation.
I think that's the best way tocharacterize Jack Jack Welsh.

SPEAKER_03 (54:14):
That's right.
So he he was the he was thecaptain of the ship when it was
the largest company in theworld.

SPEAKER_01 (54:19):
Yes.
Old old school.
That's when an energy companyand energy manufacturing.
I uh literally to your point,atoms moving, electrons moving.
This is pre-digital, right?
Isn't it astonishing to think?

SPEAKER_03 (54:33):
And I'm I'm very old and I've read a lot of books, so
uh no, I love it.
I'm I I'm I'm old as hell too.
So yeah, so what he was sayingis you know, he had a rising
rising speech, and and it reallyyou know got everybody's
attention, and the foreman cameup and said, Look, um Mr.
Welsh, you've had my hands for20 years, and today you've got

(54:53):
my brain.
And the and the factory turnedand the factory completely
changed how it was operatingsimply because the people were
cared about and the people inthe individuals inside the
organization.
There's a lot of smart peopleinside every organization.
If they just spend a little bitof time talking with their own
people and going, what can we,you know, what do you think?
Not not the directive of we'redoing this, it's always good to

(55:16):
have this, but within theframework of our values and
mission, vision, and values,what do you think and how would
you like to contribute?
That's a powerful conversationto have with people.

SPEAKER_01 (55:25):
It goes, I guess, full circle with our
conversation.
It goes beyond and within andwithout the specifications
documentation.
So, in order for software tooperate, you need to be buttoned
up and you need to be verydetailed conscious.
And AI, machine learning, deeplearning intelligence in
nanoseconds can do what an armyof engineers used to be able to

(55:49):
do.
Yay, but that's not gonna saveyou.
That's like having a silvercross and a clove of garlic in a
desk drawer in Transylvania.
The vampires are still gonna getyou.
And those vampires are your ownbroken business processes and
one's own unwillingness orincapacity to listen to one's

(56:13):
own people and to listen toone's own customers.
AI is not a solution unless youfirst make that human connection
and rely on your own intuitionand gut to move things forward.
And going back to what you weresaying about what differentiates
this country, it has to do withthe heart and soul and the

(56:33):
intentionality of wanting tosucceed.
And that's that there's that'snot in any line of code, at
least, not yet.
AI, regardless of itssophistication, is an
auto-correct feature.
It ain't gonna save you.
It's it'll help you, but youfirst have to have to get
yourself short of.

SPEAKER_03 (56:53):
That's right.
And and people, yeah, the thechallenge with AI is it it does
help people do dumb stufffaster.

SPEAKER_00 (56:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (57:00):
So you just gotta figure out if they're if you're
doing the right stuff or you'redoing dumb stuff.
I yeah, there's been too manytimes in which people have said,
Oh, we're just gonna, you know,sales is a volume game.
Well, if you're doing volume,but if you're doing volume of
dumb stuff, you're just gonna doa lot of dumb stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (57:13):
So it's uh it helps you get more efficient about
doing inefficient things.

SPEAKER_03 (57:18):
That's right, very efficient, dumb stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (57:20):
All right, Matthew.
I want to sincerely thank youfor making time on the Bald
Ambition podcast.
Like, comment, share.
I will put links in thedescription to reach out to
Matthew at Tech Torque.
They give a consultativesession, tip of the spear.

(57:41):
That link to check out your ownbusiness and uh and look what
what's under the hood and beginthe conversation to short up and
heighten your efficiencies thesmart way.

SPEAKER_03 (57:54):
Appreciate it.
Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 (57:56):
All right, thank you, thank you so much.
I appreciate it, and welcome toAmerica, sir.

SPEAKER_03 (58:02):
I appreciate it.
I feel very welcomed.

SPEAKER_01 (58:04):
Going to Australia is on my bucket list.
I've actually never been downthere, I've been to Southeast
Asia, so the closest I got isthat, but I've always wanted to
go down there and hang out.
When I was traveling in Europein my youth, I hitchhiked and I
had the URL pass, and everyother person was in was in
Aussie.

SPEAKER_03 (58:23):
We are everywhere.
We are for for everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 (58:26):
There they were just talking about that Joy de Viv,
you know, just stopping in acity, getting a job, working,
saving money, and then travelingfor two, three months, and then
stopping in another city,working and traveling, and they
were gone for 18 months, twoyears, and then they would go
back home, re-re- refuel, andthen come back out exploring.

(58:47):
It's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
Yeah, and then you know, I've I and the reason
we're in America is no goodreason.
Uh we were walking around NewYork two years ago and went, you
know what, why wouldn't whydon't we live here one day?
Wow, and then we said, Well,yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01 (59:00):
See, that is cool.
That is cool.
That no AI can do that, at leastnot yet.
Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 (59:05):
That's at least not yet.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (59:07):
Yeah, you can start a company, AAI.
Aussie AI.
That's it.

SPEAKER_03 (59:12):
Rather than says, Yeah, what do you want to do
today?
Yeah, gone, mate.

SPEAKER_01 (59:15):
Yeah, come on, mate.
All right.
Good night.

SPEAKER_03 (59:19):
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (59:20):
Take care.
That's a pleasure.
Talk to you later.

SPEAKER_03 (59:22):
Bye for now.
Yeah.