October 20, 2025 • 18 mins
Guests don’t compare you to last year’s prices; they compare you to their best recent experience. We dig into why the gap between “good” and “great” hospitality has widened, and how small, repeatable moves—clean bathrooms, warm greetings, and a clear point of view—turn rising costs into loyalty instead of churn. From the moment someone parks to the last goodbye, we treat service like hosting a dinner party, not running a transaction.
We share a practical owner’s checkpoint you can run daily: start at the curb, audit the approach, test the bathrooms, and watch the floor from a guest’s perspective. Then we get tactical about training that sticks: short pre‑shift huddles, simple digital manuals everyone can access, and standards that make excellence predictable. We challenge the habits that quietly erode trust—sticky bars, vague cutoff times, and the “we’re closing soon” shrug—and offer ways to set clear expectations for late tables without burning out the team. Along the way, we talk menu focus, using names to create connection, and how to survive the half‑season slump by staffing to reality and compressing to what you can execute perfectly.
The conversation also takes on post‑COVID scheduling realities: fewer days, tighter hours, and the profit math behind compression. If you’re charging luxury prices, you need a luxury experience—welcoming energy at the door, clean spaces everywhere, and a bar program that remembers regulars. That’s how word of mouth compounds and why certain spots become the only place locals want to sit. Subscribe for more straight‑talk playbooks, share this with a manager who needs a reset, and leave a review to tell us the one change you’ll make this week.
Make sure to follow us on Instagram.com/barninja and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Also be sure to stop by the store at barninja.com to purchase a J Plate bottle opener to help keep the show on the air! Thanks for tuning in! Mike, Bill & Kayla
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Hey Born Ninja Nation and welcome to the Born
Ninja Podcast, where we talkabout everything from trials and
tribulations from life behindthe bar to tips and tricks to
make you a better bartender anda better drinker.
Join your host, Bill Thornton,Kayla Lee, and yours truly, Mike
Davidson.
Let's go have some fucking fun.
Well, what's going on, Bill?
(00:21):
By the way, good to see you.
We've caught up.
We we shoot at 10,000 probablywith this episode.
But I mean, it is rankedanywhere from you know, FeedSpot
gave us top 10 bartendingpodcasts and all platforms.
And then usually in Spotify,we're anywhere from one to
three.
If you just type in bartending.
(00:42):
It might be on all he thepodcast reporting is still
weird.
So, like, yeah, that might be onall platforms.
Because there's a we're outthere on a ton of, you know, for
my heart radio to feed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
Every day in my life, I know at least 75,000
people with us.
Yeah.
Every day.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Yeah, I don't have a ton of housekeeping stuff other
than buy our new J Plate.
Uh the J Plates are live.
Um, we did your promo by fourget one free, Bill.
That's live on the website.
Pick those up while they'reavailable.
Uh putting another order of themtogether, but it's probably
gonna take a minute because wedo make those by hand here in
Richmond, so it takes a minute.
So it'll probably be sold outfor a little while, but if you
(01:16):
jump on now, you can probablyget them.
Um the last few that we've gotin stock.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
It's season's spinning up, so I'm basically
gonna be.
In fact, I'll go to Blacksburgand do some promotion too.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do it.
Don't do it too good because Igotta make all of them.
I'm kidding.
That's a champagne album.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
We're gonna make as many as people order.
I'm down.
We can get pictures of me inlike a little tank top.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Working from backyard.
Um, two actually two things Ithink we ought to talk about.
One is the difference of goodand great in a restaurant.
Because I've given been in somany restaurants lately where
it's like, do you guys evencare?
You know what I mean?
Like the great restaurants andthe good restaurants, it's just
that last level of hospitalityfrom somebody walking in the
(02:01):
door, the greeting, theintroduction, you know, keeping
your bathroom clean, havingfresh ingredients, having your
menu.
You know what I mean?
Like it's amazing that so manyrestaurants, whether they feel
like they get so busy they can'tsee it or they don't realize
that they're being, you know,mediocre, but like there's just
no room.
The stuff's so expensive thesedays, you know, food and drinks,
(02:23):
drinks now are what entreeswere, you know, insane five
years ago.
So it's like you really gottabring your A game in the
restaurant industry.
You can't just serve Ciscochicken fingers and you know,
charge people$15 for them.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
Yeah, you gotta have a media needs to have a soul.
Um$18 for a shrimp poor boytoday in Blacksburg, which I get
it, prices are through the roof,but you know, that's like in a
college town.
I mean, if you're you're reallynot staying on top of the little
stuff, it just it's almost likea lot of the operators or
management, which trickles downto staff just don't want to be
(02:57):
there anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
You know, there's just yeah, I mean it's just like
have a you need like now, like arestaurant needs to have like a
point of view, a soul, a vibe,as the kids say.
And if it doesn't, like I justdon't want to spend money there
over and over, you know.
And like you've got in you'vereally got you know, I think we
uh we talked about last timetraining the staff, it's just so
imperative and it's sooverlooked in these.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Well, and I think also, I mean, ultimately, like
it's unfortunate, but everythingis just expensive, and
everyone's kind of accustomed tothat too.
So it is definitely that extradifference of like a good
restaurant and a greatrestaurant, one that I want to
go back to is the customerservice.
And of course the food, youknow.
I mean, if the food's just likesuper mediocre and we're paying
top dollar for it because lifejust inflated, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
But at the same time, it all feels top dollar
now, right?
So for sure.
You're almost forced to up yourgame a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
You have to.
I mean, like there's otherwiseyou're definitely gonna get
complaints.
I feel like I'm a prettyeasygoing person, especially
when I go into a restaurant, youknow.
But at the same time, I thinkregardless, like for me, the
experience definitely comes fromthe person we're talking to or
the bartenders.
I mean, I know Ben and I, whenwe go somewhere and we sit at a
bar, if the bartender interactswith us and is talking and very
kind, we're like, okay, well,this is a spot I'd come back to.
(04:10):
But it's rare now.
Like I feel like it used to notbe that rare, and then now it's
become kind of a once in a youhit it every once in a while.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Well, it feels so good when you get it, you're
like, oh, this place is reallywell run.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
But like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to you too.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
If you're a GM or if you're an owner operator, you
need to pull into your parkinglot, detach yourself.
They call it detachment.
You know, detach yourself fromyour role and what you're doing,
and just open your eyes and lookaround.
How's the dumpster look?
How's the fence look outside?
How's the landscaping?
Does the outside of yourrestaurant make me want to come
inside?
Like they forget so many things.
(04:43):
Do we need a paint job on thetrim work?
And then just start from theoutside, work with your way to
the inside as soon as you get todo the inside.
Okay, let's go to the bathroomsfirst.
How are those?
Is the sink hanging off thewall?
I mean, a lot of times it's justlike small stuff.
Yeah.
You know, does a bathroom needan upgrade?
Is it clean?
And then go from there, go tothe front of the house, go back
of the house, and then payattention to the service a
little more, not from the eyesof you as an owner operator, but
(05:06):
as a customer, that customerinteraction with the client.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Well, and I think that's even like, you know, when
there was a price gap, like itwas either you're going to find
dining or you're going to kindof like a normal restaurant.
And now there's not that big ofa difference between, you know,
a normal restaurant you'd go toon an evening compared to, you
know, like a full fine diningexperience.
Like the prices are very kind ofsimilar mantres and stuff.
Yeah, it's like there's notreally a gap in that anymore.
(05:31):
And so, you know, if we'repaying luxury prices for food,
which really unfortunately wejust are because it's inflation,
there should be still luxuryexperiences.
And there's so many more likenew restaurants and kind of like
different vibes, as you said,compared to where it used to be
kind of more just like chain.
And now that there are more, Ifeel like smaller and you know,
mom and pop shop restaurants orjust even like kind of their own
brands opening up and expanding.
(05:52):
You know, as you do that, therehas to be quality control um for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Yeah, it's just if you anybody runs a restaurant,
owns it, bar managers it, take alook at the whole every aspect
of your business.
And because it like it's likeyou said, Kayla, I mean, prices
have equalized, it's a littleweird, you know.
So it's like you hit$100 realquick on a tab these days.
Every time if you're drinkingand eating.
So 100% I'm gonna give you ahundred dollars.
People expect a certain level ofone service, two ambiance.
(06:16):
You know, they they could eat athome, but they're choosing to
come to your restaurant, givethem a reason not only to come,
they'll want to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
This is such a small detail, but I literally hate if
I go into a female restaurant orrestroom and then there's just
toilet paper on the floor.
In any of the stalls, if there'stoilet paper on the floor, I'm
just like, this is disgusting.
It's an eating establishment,right?
Yeah, like why is there a toiletpaper on the floor?
Just just makes me turns mewrong.
SPEAKER_02 (06:38):
Yeah, in so many restaurants, it gets boring.
I was like, So I remember when Iwas working in the restaurant,
you feel so busy andoverwhelmed, and like some
things you just don't care aboutas much because you're just like
trying to keep your head abovethe water, but like that's not
I've never owned a restaurant,so I've only bar managed,
managed things like that.
So, but it that is like when Iwas managing, that's my problem,
this to take care of the wholerestaurant.
(06:59):
But like you have to haveprocesses and enough people in
place in the establishment tokeep it at a certain level.
That can't be an excuse.
Yeah, being understaffedforever, that doesn't that
doesn't fly anymore.
Um, you need to be able to keepa clean restaurant clean.
You know, things shouldn't besticky.
I don't go back to a placethat's sticky because I'm like,
yeah, if it's sticky, they'renot cleaning their draft lines.
You just start tellingyourselves a bunch of stories.
(07:21):
Feels so gross.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Like you just feel gross when you leave.
And they're just like, what didI eat?
I don't actually, maybe I don'tknow what I ate.
Yeah, I don't know if I want toknow.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Yeah.
I've talked to multiple friendsthat are former bartenders,
former managers, etc.
I'm still active, who won'treally go out anymore.
They have their one place wherethey're treated like a regular,
but they don't want to, and I'mguilty of it.
Like, well, I don't necessarilywant to go to restaurant B
because the last time I wasthere, the personality, the
effort wasn't there.
(07:50):
You know, it's this was likeit's a sliding trend that I feel
like the industry doesn't getahead of, and operators don't
get ahead of.
It's kind of chipping away whatCOVID started in the food and
beverage industry.
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, you're you're whenyou work in a restaurant, you're
a ho you're hosting people, youknow.
You have to almost treat it likeit's a a dinner party.
You know, somebody walks in thefront door, you wouldn't be
like, look at them, look away,go over and just start, you
know, chopping up cheese.
He's like, hey, Rick, how's itgoing?
You know, come on in, whatever.
Like that has to trans that yougo where you feel welcome.
That's why it's the restaurantyou go to all the time.
(08:22):
And so, like, if we don't makepeople feel welcome, why will
they want to stay and why willthey want to come back again?
Um, it's it restaurants reallyshouldn't be transactional.
Even a seasonal restaurant, evena tourist restaurant, it can't
feel transactional or that youdon't care about the customer
because then that customerleaves and tells people, oh
yeah, it's you know, the food'sokay, but you know, the vibe's
(08:42):
this, or like, you know, we'veall been there where we hear
what other people say about arestaurant, and that then
changes our mindset whether wego or not.
So it's a like a viral expansionloop.
When people walk out of yourbusiness, what are they saying
about you?
Are they being like, Oh, yougotta go there.
The steak's so good, they're sonice.
You know, Tim Behind the Bar isthe greatest bartender, you
know.
You really gotta build that kindof scene to have a successful
(09:04):
bar program indoor in restauranttoo.
And this is this is goes forbars and restaurants and the bar
part of restaurant too as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's too much competition out
there to only be mediocre,really.
You know, I mean, don't get mewrong, I think, you know,
depending on location andcertain things, there's places
that can survive that aremediocre, but long term, it's
it's never you're not going to,right?
It might work right now.
But those type of like qualitycontrols, the difference between
someone good in a restaurant andgreat is ones that you'll see
(09:32):
stick around for a very longtime.
And so, I mean, even likestaying here at the lake, like
it's so interesting in LakeNorman when there's a new spot,
new restaurant in town, likeeveryone is so hot on it and
they're like flocking to it.
And so you better be on top ofyour shit when you open because
if not, you're gonna have a badexperience and then like the
whole town's gonna know aboutit.
So, and it's it's a big town,but it's small.
(09:53):
Like everyone knows everybody.
It's it's it's great, it'sawesome.
But also, there's like somecaveats to that.
But you you've seen it.
There's restaurants that havebeen here for a very long time
and continue to do very well,and then the ones that you know
kind of started out okay andwere good, but just not great,
are are gone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
And you can come out the gate small details like
that.
They come out the gate amazing,staffed properly, and then the
half season curse, you know, inthe month or two months into it.
It's easy to get the car goingup to 200 miles an hour, but if
you cannot maintain thecapability, that that's how
restaurants fail.
It's like we were great at thebeginning, now everybody's
(10:32):
exhausted, nobody wants to dothe job, product is dropped, and
it's just new options.
SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
The first thing to go is like, and I mean, even
connection with customer, right?
If I'm giving you awesomecustomer service and I have a
decent drink and decent food, Iprobably will have a repeat
customer, you know, and peoplewould refer.
But if I don't have, I think youcan drive a little while with
mediocre service and great food,but I think you really need to
have the great product and theconnection.
(10:58):
When I say great service,creating connection with a
customer, like using thepeople's name is their most
important thing to them.
So like even though they're onlythere for a minute, but if you
can get a name and use thenames, you know, that's huge.
They want to come back becausethey feel special.
They feel like you care you'vecared enough to remember their
name.
So um, you know, there's thingsyou can do, strategies that you
can implement um with a processthat'll create better customer
(11:20):
service too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Speaking of, I think it can go ahead, Keller.
Oh no, I was just saying, Ithink it can be even just like a
you can put it together like asimple training manual, which I
think kind of sometimes a lot ofthe times is overlooked, you
know.
And I mean, now things can bedigital, you can have it on sent
in a file where it just lives inevery single one of your
employees' phones to reference,so there's really no excuse for,
you know, poor situations.
(11:43):
And you know, you set thestandards up front, you have the
high expectations, and someone'snot meeting them, then well,
clearly that's not the rightperson.
So it's it's being like havingthat clearly lined out in terms
of kind of those systems andprocesses, so it doesn't become
an issue, or you don't go from agreat restaurant to a good
restaurant, or you don't startat a good restaurant, you start
as an excellent restaurant.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yeah.
I think having meetings withyour staff, weekly stuff, get
togethers talking about stuff,daily meetings, just a quick set
down about the special andeverything.
You've got to make that stufffun because a lot of employees
don't want to come in on theirday off or have it worked out.
But having the trick into thatand then getting everyone
together and communicating willsh will just good, you're just
gonna see higher profits.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Yeah.
One thing I see that is bad isthat there's a tribalism between
the serving staff and thecustomer.
It's like, oh, the stupidgeneral public, which I mean, I
worked on a long time, I'mguilty of this.
And I mean, there are timeswhere you're just like, Are you
kidding me?
But in general, you you I mean,you're gonna have your your bad
apples in any business, anyanything, there's gonna be the
(12:44):
onesie twosie people that justdrive you crazy.
But overall, you you have tolike, it's a guest walking in.
You have to treat them withrespect and try to make a
connection with another humanbeing versus been like, oh,
they're walking in at 9 30, weclose at 9 30, and now I gotta
stay, you know, like they almosthave to like just force.
I don't, you know, and I thinkthat goes back to what you're
saying, Bill, but just trainingabout look, these are our
(13:07):
customers, these are how we makeour money without them.
They're not the interruption inyour job, they are the purpose
of it.
And so setting expectations foryour closing servers to like
you're gonna take a table at 10if they come in at 10.
You know, that's theexpectation.
And so, like just having upfrontcontracts with your or upfront
expectations with youremployees, and then really like
if you'd expect your employeesto make that connection with a
(13:27):
customer, treat them like aguest, things like that.
I think you would probably wouldhelp customer service a little
bit because I've seen that justI'm paying a lot of attention in
bars, just like the the vibesbetween staff, customers, the
cut the staff with me, thingslike that.
And it's um sometimes there's athere's a little wall in between
the servers and the customers,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Some of the local places here have started, say,
and a lot of places close atnine here, but they stop serving
food at 8 45.
And they don't.
It might be on social media, butI've had like operators and and
other bartenders like you know,in a hurry, we just want to get
this sandwich, and we've beenworking all day, and they get
there at 8 50, and it's like,well, we're closing in 10
(14:06):
minutes and the kitchen'sclosed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Nine feels early to me.
That was a COVID start, right?
Everything went to nine duringCOVID because people but like
that's been over for a whilenow.
I feel like if you're arestaurant, you could at least
go to 10 or at least seat eight,9:30.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
I mean, we've all been there, and I I've had the
902 where I go into the kitchenor 1002 or whatever it is, and
go into the kitchen and be like,you know, my boy is in the back,
and I'm like, hey man, I got twoset down.
What they want a barbecuesandwich and a uh Philly
cheesesteak with fries, spin itup.
The pros, you can get a lot offlack from the kitchen when they
(14:43):
do that, but the pros reallywant to be like, okay.
You know, it's I mean, maybe Iwanted to get out of there too
and go grab a beer, bar down thestreet, but me more fulfilled
and happy to know that I'm like,shut all that off, give them the
best time they want, make surethey feel comfortable, don't
care about the tip, justrepresent the brand, the
restaurant, and make sure theyhave a good time because in the
(15:03):
long run, it's go for the peopleto come back and pay the bills
and take care of everything.
It's part of the industry.
We're just gonna close it earlyso nobody's here after which
makes me think they're notmaking enough money.
It's just a whole other story.
(15:25):
Yeah, um well, and the wholelike I know lots of operations
that post-COVID that wereseven-day a week operations, and
now are three and four day aweek operations, and they're
making more money than they werewhen they were seven-day
operations because of laborHillab and everything like that.
And when you see that as anowner, that trend changes,
you're cutting hours, you'remaking the same profit.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
That's fine though.
I mean, if it's I get it.
Yeah, I mean that if you this iscompression, right?
You're just compressing your allyour sales into a smaller plant.
That's I mean, if you can getaway with that, great.
But um, yeah, it's just it'sweird as everything kind of
comes back from COVID, whichsomething's stuck and something,
you know, be closing early,stuck, uh multiple days off,
stuck, things like that.
(16:07):
Although I, you know, I don'tknow that you know, you change
your hours, you shorten yourhours, then you shorten your
days.
You know, are you making thesame amount of profit?
Could you make more profit ifyou were open seven days a week
with a longer hour?
I mean, seven, one more houropening from 10 to 9.
Um, if you've got the businessand it supports it, that's a
whole nother day open for you.
Yeah.
Do we know we're making the sameprofit?
Are we staying, you know, areyou stagnant on the same profit
(16:29):
when prices are going up whenreally you should be up on
profit as well?
So it's hard to tell on thatone.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
But um so uh sidebar.
I've had someone ask me since weare the Ningerian Empire, and we
are Bar Ninja, if we couldplease, for the love of tips,
service, and good time,normalize not singing any more
happy birthday songs in therestaurant industry.
unknown (16:53):
Yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
He was like, Man, funny.
Good luck on that one.
How long is this trend going tokeep happening?
And I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
I'm gonna put you ahead of that.
I don't think you have a prayeron that one.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Yeah, I don't I don't think what we say is gonna
stop that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
You what?
Good luck with that one.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Yeah, we're just never mind.
Moving on.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
Um all right, guys.
Uh thanks for uh listening totoday.
Make sure you hit subscribe onyour uh favorite podcast player.
Buy a J Plate so you can keep uson the air.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah, or J Plate.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And uh, we'll see you guys soon.
Bar Ninja Oh or J Plate.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of the Bar Ninja
Podcast.
Please be sure to subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
player.
You can join the Bar NinjaNation that has over 7,000
bartenders in it by going towww.barninja.com, and you can
(17:50):
enter your email.
Until next time, see you then.
Hey Born Ninja Nation and welcome to the Born
Ninja Podcast, where we talkabout everything from trials and
tribulations from life behindthe bar to tips and tricks to
make you a better bartender anda better drinker.
Join your host, Bill Thornton,Kayla Lee, and yours truly, Mike
Davidson.
Let's go have some fucking fun.
Well, what's going on, Bill?
(00:21):
By the way, good to see you.
We've caught up.
We we shoot at 10,000 probablywith this episode.
But I mean, it is rankedanywhere from you know, FeedSpot
gave us top 10 bartendingpodcasts and all platforms.
And then usually in Spotify,we're anywhere from one to
three.
If you just type in bartending.
(00:42):
It might be on all he thepodcast reporting is still
weird.
So, like, yeah, that might be onall platforms.
Because there's a we're outthere on a ton of, you know, for
my heart radio to feed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:51):
Every day in my life, I know at least 75,000
people with us.
Yeah.
Every day.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Yeah, I don't have a ton of housekeeping stuff other
than buy our new J Plate.
Uh the J Plates are live.
Um, we did your promo by fourget one free, Bill.
That's live on the website.
Pick those up while they'reavailable.
Uh putting another order of themtogether, but it's probably
gonna take a minute because wedo make those by hand here in
Richmond, so it takes a minute.
So it'll probably be sold outfor a little while, but if you
(01:16):
jump on now, you can probablyget them.
Um the last few that we've gotin stock.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
It's season's spinning up, so I'm basically
gonna be.
In fact, I'll go to Blacksburgand do some promotion too.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do it.
Don't do it too good because Igotta make all of them.
I'm kidding.
That's a champagne album.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
We're gonna make as many as people order.
I'm down.
We can get pictures of me inlike a little tank top.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Working from backyard.
Um, two actually two things Ithink we ought to talk about.
One is the difference of goodand great in a restaurant.
Because I've given been in somany restaurants lately where
it's like, do you guys evencare?
You know what I mean?
Like the great restaurants andthe good restaurants, it's just
that last level of hospitalityfrom somebody walking in the
(02:01):
door, the greeting, theintroduction, you know, keeping
your bathroom clean, havingfresh ingredients, having your
menu.
You know what I mean?
Like it's amazing that so manyrestaurants, whether they feel
like they get so busy they can'tsee it or they don't realize
that they're being, you know,mediocre, but like there's just
no room.
The stuff's so expensive thesedays, you know, food and drinks,
(02:23):
drinks now are what entreeswere, you know, insane five
years ago.
So it's like you really gottabring your A game in the
restaurant industry.
You can't just serve Ciscochicken fingers and you know,
charge people$15 for them.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
Yeah, you gotta have a media needs to have a soul.
Um$18 for a shrimp poor boytoday in Blacksburg, which I get
it, prices are through the roof,but you know, that's like in a
college town.
I mean, if you're you're reallynot staying on top of the little
stuff, it just it's almost likea lot of the operators or
management, which trickles downto staff just don't want to be
(02:57):
there anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
You know, there's just yeah, I mean it's just like
have a you need like now, like arestaurant needs to have like a
point of view, a soul, a vibe,as the kids say.
And if it doesn't, like I justdon't want to spend money there
over and over, you know.
And like you've got in you'vereally got you know, I think we
uh we talked about last timetraining the staff, it's just so
imperative and it's sooverlooked in these.
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Well, and I think also, I mean, ultimately, like
it's unfortunate, but everythingis just expensive, and
everyone's kind of accustomed tothat too.
So it is definitely that extradifference of like a good
restaurant and a greatrestaurant, one that I want to
go back to is the customerservice.
And of course the food, youknow.
I mean, if the food's just likesuper mediocre and we're paying
top dollar for it because lifejust inflated, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (03:41):
But at the same time, it all feels top dollar
now, right?
So for sure.
You're almost forced to up yourgame a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
You have to.
I mean, like there's otherwiseyou're definitely gonna get
complaints.
I feel like I'm a prettyeasygoing person, especially
when I go into a restaurant, youknow.
But at the same time, I thinkregardless, like for me, the
experience definitely comes fromthe person we're talking to or
the bartenders.
I mean, I know Ben and I, whenwe go somewhere and we sit at a
bar, if the bartender interactswith us and is talking and very
kind, we're like, okay, well,this is a spot I'd come back to.
(04:10):
But it's rare now.
Like I feel like it used to notbe that rare, and then now it's
become kind of a once in a youhit it every once in a while.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
Well, it feels so good when you get it, you're
like, oh, this place is reallywell run.
SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
But like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to you too.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
If you're a GM or if you're an owner operator, you
need to pull into your parkinglot, detach yourself.
They call it detachment.
You know, detach yourself fromyour role and what you're doing,
and just open your eyes and lookaround.
How's the dumpster look?
How's the fence look outside?
How's the landscaping?
Does the outside of yourrestaurant make me want to come
inside?
Like they forget so many things.
(04:43):
Do we need a paint job on thetrim work?
And then just start from theoutside, work with your way to
the inside as soon as you get todo the inside.
Okay, let's go to the bathroomsfirst.
How are those?
Is the sink hanging off thewall?
I mean, a lot of times it's justlike small stuff.
Yeah.
You know, does a bathroom needan upgrade?
Is it clean?
And then go from there, go tothe front of the house, go back
of the house, and then payattention to the service a
little more, not from the eyesof you as an owner operator, but
(05:06):
as a customer, that customerinteraction with the client.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Well, and I think that's even like, you know, when
there was a price gap, like itwas either you're going to find
dining or you're going to kindof like a normal restaurant.
And now there's not that big ofa difference between, you know,
a normal restaurant you'd go toon an evening compared to, you
know, like a full fine diningexperience.
Like the prices are very kind ofsimilar mantres and stuff.
Yeah, it's like there's notreally a gap in that anymore.
(05:31):
And so, you know, if we'repaying luxury prices for food,
which really unfortunately wejust are because it's inflation,
there should be still luxuryexperiences.
And there's so many more likenew restaurants and kind of like
different vibes, as you said,compared to where it used to be
kind of more just like chain.
And now that there are more, Ifeel like smaller and you know,
mom and pop shop restaurants orjust even like kind of their own
brands opening up and expanding.
(05:52):
You know, as you do that, therehas to be quality control um for
sure.
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Yeah, it's just if you anybody runs a restaurant,
owns it, bar managers it, take alook at the whole every aspect
of your business.
And because it like it's likeyou said, Kayla, I mean, prices
have equalized, it's a littleweird, you know.
So it's like you hit$100 realquick on a tab these days.
Every time if you're drinkingand eating.
So 100% I'm gonna give you ahundred dollars.
People expect a certain level ofone service, two ambiance.
(06:16):
You know, they they could eat athome, but they're choosing to
come to your restaurant, givethem a reason not only to come,
they'll want to come back.
SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
This is such a small detail, but I literally hate if
I go into a female restaurant orrestroom and then there's just
toilet paper on the floor.
In any of the stalls, if there'stoilet paper on the floor, I'm
just like, this is disgusting.
It's an eating establishment,right?
Yeah, like why is there a toiletpaper on the floor?
Just just makes me turns mewrong.
SPEAKER_02 (06:38):
Yeah, in so many restaurants, it gets boring.
I was like, So I remember when Iwas working in the restaurant,
you feel so busy andoverwhelmed, and like some
things you just don't care aboutas much because you're just like
trying to keep your head abovethe water, but like that's not
I've never owned a restaurant,so I've only bar managed,
managed things like that.
So, but it that is like when Iwas managing, that's my problem,
this to take care of the wholerestaurant.
(06:59):
But like you have to haveprocesses and enough people in
place in the establishment tokeep it at a certain level.
That can't be an excuse.
Yeah, being understaffedforever, that doesn't that
doesn't fly anymore.
Um, you need to be able to keepa clean restaurant clean.
You know, things shouldn't besticky.
I don't go back to a placethat's sticky because I'm like,
yeah, if it's sticky, they'renot cleaning their draft lines.
You just start tellingyourselves a bunch of stories.
(07:21):
Feels so gross.
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
Like you just feel gross when you leave.
And they're just like, what didI eat?
I don't actually, maybe I don'tknow what I ate.
Yeah, I don't know if I want toknow.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Yeah.
I've talked to multiple friendsthat are former bartenders,
former managers, etc.
I'm still active, who won'treally go out anymore.
They have their one place wherethey're treated like a regular,
but they don't want to, and I'mguilty of it.
Like, well, I don't necessarilywant to go to restaurant B
because the last time I wasthere, the personality, the
effort wasn't there.
(07:50):
You know, it's this was likeit's a sliding trend that I feel
like the industry doesn't getahead of, and operators don't
get ahead of.
It's kind of chipping away whatCOVID started in the food and
beverage industry.
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
Yeah.
And I mean, you're you're whenyou work in a restaurant, you're
a ho you're hosting people, youknow.
You have to almost treat it likeit's a a dinner party.
You know, somebody walks in thefront door, you wouldn't be
like, look at them, look away,go over and just start, you
know, chopping up cheese.
He's like, hey, Rick, how's itgoing?
You know, come on in, whatever.
Like that has to trans that yougo where you feel welcome.
That's why it's the restaurantyou go to all the time.
(08:22):
And so, like, if we don't makepeople feel welcome, why will
they want to stay and why willthey want to come back again?
Um, it's it restaurants reallyshouldn't be transactional.
Even a seasonal restaurant, evena tourist restaurant, it can't
feel transactional or that youdon't care about the customer
because then that customerleaves and tells people, oh
yeah, it's you know, the food'sokay, but you know, the vibe's
(08:42):
this, or like, you know, we'veall been there where we hear
what other people say about arestaurant, and that then
changes our mindset whether wego or not.
So it's a like a viral expansionloop.
When people walk out of yourbusiness, what are they saying
about you?
Are they being like, Oh, yougotta go there.
The steak's so good, they're sonice.
You know, Tim Behind the Bar isthe greatest bartender, you
know.
You really gotta build that kindof scene to have a successful
(09:04):
bar program indoor in restauranttoo.
And this is this is goes forbars and restaurants and the bar
part of restaurant too as well.
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
Yeah, I mean, there's too much competition out
there to only be mediocre,really.
You know, I mean, don't get mewrong, I think, you know,
depending on location andcertain things, there's places
that can survive that aremediocre, but long term, it's
it's never you're not going to,right?
It might work right now.
But those type of like qualitycontrols, the difference between
someone good in a restaurant andgreat is ones that you'll see
(09:32):
stick around for a very longtime.
And so, I mean, even likestaying here at the lake, like
it's so interesting in LakeNorman when there's a new spot,
new restaurant in town, likeeveryone is so hot on it and
they're like flocking to it.
And so you better be on top ofyour shit when you open because
if not, you're gonna have a badexperience and then like the
whole town's gonna know aboutit.
So, and it's it's a big town,but it's small.
(09:53):
Like everyone knows everybody.
It's it's it's great, it'sawesome.
But also, there's like somecaveats to that.
But you you've seen it.
There's restaurants that havebeen here for a very long time
and continue to do very well,and then the ones that you know
kind of started out okay andwere good, but just not great,
are are gone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
And you can come out the gate small details like
that.
They come out the gate amazing,staffed properly, and then the
half season curse, you know, inthe month or two months into it.
It's easy to get the car goingup to 200 miles an hour, but if
you cannot maintain thecapability, that that's how
restaurants fail.
It's like we were great at thebeginning, now everybody's
(10:32):
exhausted, nobody wants to dothe job, product is dropped, and
it's just new options.
SPEAKER_02 (10:36):
The first thing to go is like, and I mean, even
connection with customer, right?
If I'm giving you awesomecustomer service and I have a
decent drink and decent food, Iprobably will have a repeat
customer, you know, and peoplewould refer.
But if I don't have, I think youcan drive a little while with
mediocre service and great food,but I think you really need to
have the great product and theconnection.
(10:58):
When I say great service,creating connection with a
customer, like using thepeople's name is their most
important thing to them.
So like even though they're onlythere for a minute, but if you
can get a name and use thenames, you know, that's huge.
They want to come back becausethey feel special.
They feel like you care you'vecared enough to remember their
name.
So um, you know, there's thingsyou can do, strategies that you
can implement um with a processthat'll create better customer
(11:20):
service too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
Speaking of, I think it can go ahead, Keller.
Oh no, I was just saying, Ithink it can be even just like a
you can put it together like asimple training manual, which I
think kind of sometimes a lot ofthe times is overlooked, you
know.
And I mean, now things can bedigital, you can have it on sent
in a file where it just lives inevery single one of your
employees' phones to reference,so there's really no excuse for,
you know, poor situations.
(11:43):
And you know, you set thestandards up front, you have the
high expectations, and someone'snot meeting them, then well,
clearly that's not the rightperson.
So it's it's being like havingthat clearly lined out in terms
of kind of those systems andprocesses, so it doesn't become
an issue, or you don't go from agreat restaurant to a good
restaurant, or you don't startat a good restaurant, you start
as an excellent restaurant.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yeah.
I think having meetings withyour staff, weekly stuff, get
togethers talking about stuff,daily meetings, just a quick set
down about the special andeverything.
You've got to make that stufffun because a lot of employees
don't want to come in on theirday off or have it worked out.
But having the trick into thatand then getting everyone
together and communicating willsh will just good, you're just
gonna see higher profits.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Yeah.
One thing I see that is bad isthat there's a tribalism between
the serving staff and thecustomer.
It's like, oh, the stupidgeneral public, which I mean, I
worked on a long time, I'mguilty of this.
And I mean, there are timeswhere you're just like, Are you
kidding me?
But in general, you you I mean,you're gonna have your your bad
apples in any business, anyanything, there's gonna be the
(12:44):
onesie twosie people that justdrive you crazy.
But overall, you you have tolike, it's a guest walking in.
You have to treat them withrespect and try to make a
connection with another humanbeing versus been like, oh,
they're walking in at 9 30, weclose at 9 30, and now I gotta
stay, you know, like they almosthave to like just force.
I don't, you know, and I thinkthat goes back to what you're
saying, Bill, but just trainingabout look, these are our
(13:07):
customers, these are how we makeour money without them.
They're not the interruption inyour job, they are the purpose
of it.
And so setting expectations foryour closing servers to like
you're gonna take a table at 10if they come in at 10.
You know, that's theexpectation.
And so, like just having upfrontcontracts with your or upfront
expectations with youremployees, and then really like
if you'd expect your employeesto make that connection with a
(13:27):
customer, treat them like aguest, things like that.
I think you would probably wouldhelp customer service a little
bit because I've seen that justI'm paying a lot of attention in
bars, just like the the vibesbetween staff, customers, the
cut the staff with me, thingslike that.
And it's um sometimes there's athere's a little wall in between
the servers and the customers,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Some of the local places here have started, say,
and a lot of places close atnine here, but they stop serving
food at 8 45.
And they don't.
It might be on social media, butI've had like operators and and
other bartenders like you know,in a hurry, we just want to get
this sandwich, and we've beenworking all day, and they get
there at 8 50, and it's like,well, we're closing in 10
(14:06):
minutes and the kitchen'sclosed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Nine feels early to me.
That was a COVID start, right?
Everything went to nine duringCOVID because people but like
that's been over for a whilenow.
I feel like if you're arestaurant, you could at least
go to 10 or at least seat eight,9:30.
SPEAKER_01 (14:21):
I mean, we've all been there, and I I've had the
902 where I go into the kitchenor 1002 or whatever it is, and
go into the kitchen and be like,you know, my boy is in the back,
and I'm like, hey man, I got twoset down.
What they want a barbecuesandwich and a uh Philly
cheesesteak with fries, spin itup.
The pros, you can get a lot offlack from the kitchen when they
(14:43):
do that, but the pros reallywant to be like, okay.
You know, it's I mean, maybe Iwanted to get out of there too
and go grab a beer, bar down thestreet, but me more fulfilled
and happy to know that I'm like,shut all that off, give them the
best time they want, make surethey feel comfortable, don't
care about the tip, justrepresent the brand, the
restaurant, and make sure theyhave a good time because in the
(15:03):
long run, it's go for the peopleto come back and pay the bills
and take care of everything.
It's part of the industry.
We're just gonna close it earlyso nobody's here after which
makes me think they're notmaking enough money.
It's just a whole other story.
(15:25):
Yeah, um well, and the wholelike I know lots of operations
that post-COVID that wereseven-day a week operations, and
now are three and four day aweek operations, and they're
making more money than they werewhen they were seven-day
operations because of laborHillab and everything like that.
And when you see that as anowner, that trend changes,
you're cutting hours, you'remaking the same profit.
SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
That's fine though.
I mean, if it's I get it.
Yeah, I mean that if you this iscompression, right?
You're just compressing your allyour sales into a smaller plant.
That's I mean, if you can getaway with that, great.
But um, yeah, it's just it'sweird as everything kind of
comes back from COVID, whichsomething's stuck and something,
you know, be closing early,stuck, uh multiple days off,
stuck, things like that.
(16:07):
Although I, you know, I don'tknow that you know, you change
your hours, you shorten yourhours, then you shorten your
days.
You know, are you making thesame amount of profit?
Could you make more profit ifyou were open seven days a week
with a longer hour?
I mean, seven, one more houropening from 10 to 9.
Um, if you've got the businessand it supports it, that's a
whole nother day open for you.
Yeah.
Do we know we're making the sameprofit?
Are we staying, you know, areyou stagnant on the same profit
(16:29):
when prices are going up whenreally you should be up on
profit as well?
So it's hard to tell on thatone.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
But um so uh sidebar.
I've had someone ask me since weare the Ningerian Empire, and we
are Bar Ninja, if we couldplease, for the love of tips,
service, and good time,normalize not singing any more
happy birthday songs in therestaurant industry.
unknown (16:53):
Yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
He was like, Man, funny.
Good luck on that one.
How long is this trend going tokeep happening?
And I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
I'm gonna put you ahead of that.
I don't think you have a prayeron that one.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Yeah, I don't I don't think what we say is gonna
stop that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
You what?
Good luck with that one.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Yeah, we're just never mind.
Moving on.
SPEAKER_02 (17:18):
Um all right, guys.
Uh thanks for uh listening totoday.
Make sure you hit subscribe onyour uh favorite podcast player.
Buy a J Plate so you can keep uson the air.
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah, or J Plate.
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
And uh, we'll see you guys soon.
Bar Ninja Oh or J Plate.
Thanks for listening to thisepisode of the Bar Ninja
Podcast.
Please be sure to subscribe tous on your favorite podcast
player.
You can join the Bar NinjaNation that has over 7,000
bartenders in it by going towww.barninja.com, and you can
(17:50):
enter your email.
Until next time, see you then.
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