#123 The Primal House - How Nostr Empowers Creators and Elevates Humanity - Ben Wehrman Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The Ben Pod!

(00:04):
Yes dude.
These are strong magnets.
Hold on.
The Ben Pod.
The Ben Pod.
Johnny, The Ben Pod.
Welcome to The Ben Pod.
Johnny, you need to have a comfortable spot.
We'll just make it outside into the world.
You good? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, we got music in the background with amores.

(00:26):
Guess what? There are girls in the house.
There are girls in the house.
Only boys are allowed on this episode.
All right.
Let's start this off.
That was terrible.
This is a fun change of pace.
Paul had the wonderful idea earlier today, like an hour ago.
We should bring the boys together for a conversation because we have boys in this house.

(00:47):
We have conversations all the time and we never record them.
So we should do that more often.
So I'm here with Paul, Giles, and Johnny.
Why don't we have you gentlemen give a quick introduction?
I know we've had a couple episodes with Paul already, so people know him.
If you haven't, look up Paul Keating on the episodes.
But let's just pass it down.
So glad we get to hang out with Ben instead of him being in his room podcasting all day.

(01:10):
We're actually in the flash live doing it.
Let's go.
I'm primal.net slash Paul.
I'm helping grow Primal, obsessed with Bitcoin,
and then got these guys to come hang out with me in Costa Rica at the Primal House.
name's giles uh also known as holistic hybrid on primal i've been living in the house for the past

(01:30):
two months i'm an ultra marathon coach it was meant to be two weeks by the way and somehow i'm
still still here do you have the record for most days at the house i think so yeah i'm pretty sure
how long has it been do you think like two and two and a half months i think yeah yeah
Amazing.
Yeah, we might be doing 50 kilometers tomorrow as well with all of us.

(01:55):
Stay tuned.
That could be another podcast we could chat about.
High five, that adventure.
That'd be crazy live.
My name is Johnny and I ended up being here.
We'll do a little closer, I think.
Yeah, I shouldn't even be here.
All the coincidences led to me being here and having the best time of my life.
I'm usually in Europe and traveling in a van.

(02:18):
And yeah, now having the best time of my life in Costa Rica in the prime house.
Johnny Canone.
Let's go.
Promo Nesos, Johnny Canone.
Real quick, before we get deep, I want to try to show the people watching our video how beautiful our background is.
Oh, yeah.
Look at what we're looking at right now.
Oh, that's only shot.
We've got the pool down here.

(02:40):
We've got the ocean over there.
It's just like this is such a beautiful place.
And oh, there's Sean, by the way.
Sean is joining us.
Okay.
We're live on the bedtime.
Sean, you're here to introduce yourself.
Yeah, Sean, introduce yourself, dude.
Here you go.
Hey, my name is Sean.
What do I say?
Who are you?

(03:00):
I am.
I am.
You're in the Primal House and tell us about how you ended up here and what we're doing here.
I got to the Primal House because I saw Paul on Instagram and I saw him surfing outdoors in nature,
but also working on a tech products and software.
And that's what I do.
So I'm also in software building a platform for health.

(03:22):
But at the end of the day, health is not found in the screen.
It is found outside of nature.
So I was attracted to that.
I was like, whoa, this looks cool.
Happened to be going to Costa Rica anyway.
And then we connected.
And yeah, that's what brought me here.
You know what harder, dude?
Tell them about your app.
About the app.
The Upspace app is basically like kind of like Spotify,
but Instagram-style content.

(03:42):
but only health stuff. So Spotify model in the sense that health creators share healthy recipes,
workouts, meditations, and education. And then the Spotify model in the sense that anybody
goes in, they subscribe for access to everything. And then we pay the creators based on what the
users actually complete. So creators are able to share this content and make money directly.

(04:04):
And then the users or consumers are able to get all the health content in one place,
distraction-free and without the temptations of Instagram or TikTok or anything.
So that's the product.
Beautiful.
All right.
I want to hear about the origin story of the primal house itself,
where we are all sitting today here in beautiful Uvita, Costa Rica.

(04:25):
And for Paul and I's second episode together,
you mentioned this during our conversation briefly.
Yes.
You said that you're scheming.
Yes.
So I want to know the origin story from where you first thought of this idea
of just getting a sweet house in the middle of the jungle,
inviting a bunch of creators and building people over here.
How did you think that up, and how was the process from there?

(04:47):
Well, like any good idea, it stems from boredom.
And, well, it's always kind of been in the back of my mind.
It was kind of like my dream to be the guy in Costa Rica
and have a place for people to cruise down.
And now I'm working for Primal, which is a social media company,
and we're at the very early days of it.

(05:08):
So, getting people in real life down here to Bitcoin Jungle, where you can actually spend Bitcoin, you can earn Bitcoin in the app Primal.
It was like, all these things are so aligned, and I wanted it so bad for so long to be the guy down here.
And I just kind of pitched the idea of the CEO, got a little bit of funding from Primal for it,
and invited everybody I knew that would fit in to come down here and spend time with me.

(05:31):
So, it's been really fun.
How many total people have came through? Because it's been churning quite a bit since I got here.
A couple dozen at least yeah mate maybe yeah probably under 30 but
There's been some churn like a lot of good some people's coming for a night or two
so if you count all those it's been a lot of seeds planted and
Hopefully they'll bloom in the and I just think this is such a cool

(05:55):
idea that more people should be doing just like bringing squads of
Homeways together that are all doing similar things. Yeah, it's super primal like we're meant we're
tribal
beams right like everything's just better in a group well yeah let's pass it to giles yeah what
do you think what do you think yeah i mean i was here in uvita for a month like living in an airbnb

(06:24):
by myself um and like the first two weeks was great like i got the most work done in my life
but then the following two weeks was like what the fuck am i doing like i need to be around people
like we're social animals um so this like living with people and getting to like yeah getting to
know each other on like a deeper level i think is really really important and something that we're

(06:45):
we've become so detached from in today's day and age which is yeah a bit of a shame in my mind
yeah why why do you think people are not connecting like this as much as they used to
i think the excuse of technology doing it like social media is a big reason um
yeah there's the facade of like we can connect over a screen i can video call anybody but it's

(07:11):
not the same as this as like being in the flesh um yeah and i think it takes a lot of time and
like troubleshooting to actually get to that point of like deeply realizing it and some people still
have no fucking idea which is like pretty wild to me as well yeah like they're just happy to live
behind their screens and supposedly connect with other people through that medium yeah

(07:34):
yeah so here's a question for johnny now so you you've got a sweet instagram brand you've been
building for a long time how long you've been grinding on that instagram page well i started
on the first of march in 2023 so wow that early years that's only two years you got 600 000
followers on instagram in two years that's crazy so i want to hear like you're because you're

(07:59):
obviously very much with this ethos of like bringing people together and
connecting humans. We talk about how technology can either hurt that,
like most people we see doom scrolling on their phone,
but it can also bring people together.
Like Paul and I would not know each other and I would not be here if I
wouldn't have found him on Twitter and talking about, you know,
Bitcoin all the time and then finding primal.

(08:20):
And then all of us are here because of technology as well.
So how do we balance using technology for good and not evil or boredom and
losing our brain cells?
Right, I mean, yeah, yeah.
As you mentioned, it's like a blessing and a curse and it depends how you use it.
So, yeah, I think don't get too lost into the screens, into the scrolling and actually

(08:41):
use social media as it's intended to be, right?
It's a social media.
So you get to know people, reach out to them, maybe meet them in real life.
That's the end goal at the end of the day.
It's not about wasting your time and distracting yourself because I think I don't necessarily
I would say you have to be around people all the time.

(09:02):
I think it's great to be alone sometimes too because if you are alone you are with your
own thoughts, you get to know yourself better and I think that's very valuable.
I would never use social media to distract yourself but just to get to know other people
and maybe to gather some information to grow.

(09:24):
There are many beautiful platforms like UpSpace for example where it's intended for you to
grow and I think that's how you should use social media as an inspiration but then turn
it off once it gets like too much, right?
You don't want to sit in front of a screen all day long because it will just detach you
from reality.
So yeah, it's finding the right balance.

(09:45):
So, and on social media it's crucial to not be like a consumer too much, rather be a creator
and make the best out of the platform.
Generate money, generate income.
And not just doom scrolling.
Yeah, that was gonna be my follow-up question,
which is, how can you attune your radar

(10:08):
to understand when you're using it badly
and when you're using it well?
And for me, I think everyone gets in this zone sometimes
where you just catch yourself scrolling
and you need to kind of stop and say,
oh, I'm doing it again.
I need to stop doing this.
And certain, interestingly enough, I found when I, you know, eat off of my diet or have some crappy food, I find myself doing that more.

(10:31):
I don't know if you guys have ever experimented with that.
Like if you have some like bad meal or something or like eat some, you know, I don't know.
It's been a while since I've done it.
But I remember the next day after I eat something shitty, then I find myself doom scrolling more.
And like nutrition is such a big part of it.
And nutrition is big for all of us here.
We have different perspectives on what perfect nutrition is.

(10:54):
Sean and I were just talking last night about honey.
We were discussing because I'm more on the carnivore side.
Sean is very much a honey fan.
But we're all being very intentional, which I think is where the majority of people should be.
And that's how we can get there.
But anyway, bringing it back, I wanted to ask you because Johnny was talking about UpSpace,
how that's like a good creative way to use technology good.

(11:16):
And so I'm curious for you, talk about like being creative and using technology
because we've all heard about social media, like where people can, you know,
post videos of themselves doing things and post pictures of their lives.
But there also more ways that you can like build things on there that inspire people to like become stronger and like motivate people so how do you find that fits into this mix i think it it two things uh one from like the actual

(11:46):
consumer side it's just putting more as johnny says the word so well consciousness into our
being in our day-to-day lives so same thing with food like when you're conscious about the things
you consume then you're going to eat pure and then that's going to great bring purity and clarity
of mind versus a lack of consciousness eating trash food will then take away that purity and

(12:10):
you'll have less clarity same thing when on social media it's being more conscious when we're
consuming and that will lead to you noticing you're in the scroll be like why am i doing this
i don't even want to be here anyway otherwise you kind of get hypnotized by the system so that's the
one side from the consumer is being more conscious but then also as like builders in this world
it's creating more conscious consuming places or creating better incentivized like platforms so

(12:38):
for example like primal one thing that's really cool is they have the zaps where people literally
pay in bitcoin if they like a post or whatnot and they will zap the other user and what that does is
it puts more consciousness into somebody doing that.
I want to pay this person.
So that user is more consciousness,

(12:58):
and then Primal rewards that interaction.
So it makes the whole ecosystem of Primal
more conscious than Instagram, for example,
which is only incentive model is to get people hooked.
So they're trying to get people hooked.
They're trying to get the red dots, the likes, the comments, all these things.
So it's a completely different infrastructure
because their model is different.
So as builders, we need to think of like,

(13:19):
what are the models to properly incentivize ourselves
and be more conscious in our building and then also more conscious in our creation.
So I think it all comes down to just more awareness, more consciousness in that decision making.
Yeah, I want to add to that.
It's definitely about that, like trying to align incentives and also giving the user more control.
I would like Instagram more if I could turn off the explore page,

(13:42):
if I could have more control of the algorithm.
Like, that's a huge thing.
I mean, if Instagram did that, I'd lose a lot of talking points for Primal.
But it's against their incentive, so I don't think they'll change that algorithm
or give the users as much choice or have that be one of the things they market
as part of their brand because it's not.

(14:04):
It was interesting how you brought up the junk food thing.
Have you noticed that?
When you eat something shitty, your brain is just more NPC the next day?
You become more of a zombie?
It's because maybe you lose credibility within yourself.
You lose trust in yourself.
It could be a mental thing too.
I know this is bad for me and now I slipped on this.
I'm just going to go slip down this.
It turned into a slippery slope.

(14:24):
Yeah, that could be it too.
Because just like processed food is designed to addict you,
just social media is designed to addict you.
It's very carefully manipulated or created to hit those points,
those bliss points in your head to keep you on the screen
or to keep you eating the BS.
Sean brought up zaps too.
I think zaps, for those listening that aren't on Nostra yet,

(14:46):
That is literally just a little button you press to send little small bits of sats or Bitcoin to people.
And so this is such a small little function.
But I think you would agree that it's completely changing how social media works and how people are interacting in the world.
Because we've been using it all over the place here in Costa Rica.

(15:07):
Everywhere we go, these markets, seguras for the beef, you can pay for things with Bitcoin here.
So you can literally pull out Primal and your wallet and zap them Bitcoin for these products and services in the real world.
So this is like definitely bringing a real world change.
So how do you view zaps as this truly, actually world changing and socially changing function?

(15:33):
How many hours you got?
A lot.
As much as 57% on your phone can take us.
it's it zaps well it looks it almost looks like a gimmick at first we always bring people on
and we go hashtag introductions and people get zapped and it's like oh look at this cool thing
then a lot of people might forget but really what it stands for is like this completely

(15:54):
different model for social media of being able to directly support creators and they keep 100
percent that doesn't exist anywhere else yet as well because Apple's taking a cut yeah all the
centralized platforms like YouTube like they're incentivized to take a bigger and bigger cut and
basically screw their creators as much as they can because they have shareholders to please and

(16:17):
we know value for value works like only fans you wonder if just like a normal you know content if
if it was easy to actually send people money.
Because it's not right now,
because there's a bunch of different bank accounts
and they're all outdated.
So I can't just send over money on Instagram

(16:37):
to people in places that don't use the same...
You know, banks as me.
Whatever outdated stuff, whatever they use.
Yeah, and I see a future where we could be streaming money
while we're watching stuff like reels or YouTube videos,
which would be incredibly interesting.
because your attention is already like currency, so why not?

(17:02):
And to keep yourself accountable while actually people that make the content
are receiving the value of your attention.
So it goes really deep.
And it's the only fundamental thing that's different about Nostra
compared to other social networks.
So far.
I feel like there's a lot of it.
I mean, there's so many interesting things coming,
but right now, zaps are definitely a huge separator.

(17:25):
And do you have something else to add?
I kind of want to know what these two because they're not as like deep in the Bitcoin space,
like what they felt right away when they got zapped or like that was your brain has gone deep
on that as well. Like, what do you think? That's gonna be my next question for Giles,
because you've been here the longest other than Paul, you've had the most experience going to
markets and paying for stuff with Bitcoin. How has that changed your routine rather than just

(17:47):
paying in fiat currency? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of turned the whole game upside down for me. Like
I've started earning in Bitcoin as well.
Like my Primal wallet is stacked with sats
because I can add value to other people
in helping them run long distances
and improve their health.
And then, yeah, at the same time,

(18:08):
I can do the same thing here,
going to the markets,
zapping other people freely.
The proof of concept,
like I earn like 3,000 sats
on my first introductions post.
and my mind was fucking blown when I went to the markets
and I did my first ever Bitcoin purchase

(18:30):
of paying for six free range eggs.
Like that for me was like so damn exciting.
Because it officially makes that connection
between just creating something that people value
and then you're getting value back
through something you can buy.
Yeah.
Where you never had that before on social media.
So it's like Instagram is disconnected.
It can only be really a hobby.

(18:52):
Yeah, exactly.
Unless you're huge and can get sponsorships and stuff,
which is where I was going to go with Johnny next, actually,
because you have a big enough Instagram where you are able to go out
and find these other unique ways to monetize with sponsorships and paid deals.
But I have to imagine, when I scroll through your feed,
your posts get thousands to tens of thousands of likes, tons of views.

(19:16):
and now that you see Primal where people are just making money on things,
how does that excite you?
Because you have such a big audience there
and there's so much money being left on the table,
I think you would agree, even with those other strategies you're using.
Right, so the thing with Instagram is if you just create on there,

(19:38):
post videos and get millions of views,
you don't get paid anything from Instagram.
So as a creator on Instagram,
you really have to also focus on the business side
just to sell your own products
or to reach out to brands regarding brand deals.
And Primal is a way for creators to create on that
and just focus on creating
and you can get paid doing what you love

(20:00):
and you don't have to learn all the business strategies
and everything behind that.
So I think, yeah, it's like a big change.
It's a big shift.
and yeah for me personally I mean I like creating more than doing the business stuff so
yeah it's way easier to get money like that it's so interesting you say that because this this is

(20:24):
kind of for Paul in Bitcoin we hear a lot how you know all the all these people like the artists
and the people who are doing important things in society like architects builders doctors
engineers, all these different jobs are now basically under the fiat standard.
They're forced to become an investor on the side just to be able to keep their money because of inflation.

(20:46):
And so I see an interesting connection here with Nostra because on the Bitcoin side,
we talk about that, how all these people who have important real world jobs need to become investors on the side.
And how Johnny just brought up how these creators and artists, people who are producing content,
you're having to become like a business entrepreneur on the side in order to find
ways to make money outside of the platform. Like you have to go outside of it to make money.

(21:11):
And so Nostra is really just making it so it's all under one roof and it can be in one place and
you can create anything that provides value for people. Anything that people are doing on any
other social media platform, they can also provide services in the real world. Like they can offer,
there's plenty of people like selling things on there now. There's marketplaces where you can

(21:31):
hire people through Nostra and just get zaps for it it it opens everything up and it's super cool
so what kind of stuff what's the cool stuff you're seeing on Nostra that is allowing people to just
start making money immediately and seamlessly right through the protocol well I don't want to like
overhype it because you know not many people are like actually making livings or anything out there

(21:54):
now it still feels like a gimmick but if you 100x it from what it is now people would be legitimately
making livings yeah like and this is such a small sample size right now that we have on nostr
that it's insane but also i gotta tell this story i just posted our like gender reveal
just smashed a coconut and it was a girl um and i posted it on every platform and on instagram i

(22:18):
got a thousand likes on nostr on prime i got a thousand dollars yeah in bitcoin comparison so
and it just
Laura and I
were just like
I mean yeah
it's a lot of
dope for me
but it's also
just like
man
these likes
are damn cheap
so even in a
world where
Johnny would post

(22:38):
like an awesome
reel into
the Nostraverse
one day
and then everybody
just sends one
set which today
is like a fraction
of a penny
like that's gonna
add up
and it's gonna
be really cool
and it changes
the way you
create content
because
like you're not
just creating content for an algorithm to serve your content, to serve everything out.

(22:59):
It's like you're serving it to the people who get to decide if they want to put their
hard earned stats to it.
It's completely different.
One interesting thing that I was talking to our developers about Bitcoin and Nasser today and one of them brought up a really interesting point that I really think about that Bitcoin enables and NOSA is a great example of it is like these little micro payments

(23:24):
Because like if you're in fiat, you know, in currency, it might cost 25 cents per transaction.
So it doesn't make sense to send cents.
you know i mean like you're you're by sending a penny or 10 cents which adds up over time if a
million views and everyone sends a cent you're making what is that 10k or something like that

(23:46):
or like we're like a thousand bucks all that video so it adds up but in the usd world of dollars
it wouldn't make any sense because you would have to send the transaction fees would be too high per
transaction. So the combo between Bitcoin and blockchain and then Noster to be able to do that
for those micro payments is really cool in social media because you might send a,

(24:09):
like the default is like 42 sats, which equals how much? Four cents. Exactly. Like, and you're
like, it doesn't feel a lot for you to send that. You're like, yeah, this is like a like,
but they add up over time for sure. So there's a cool element there.
And what Giles said earlier was for his introductions post, he got 3000 sats and,
you know that's roughly like three dollars so for someone on the outside who hasn't used it yet may

(24:33):
think like oh that's not a ton of money but when it actually happens to you and you see it it's
suddenly real money and you're like oh crap like i'm actually earning bitcoin for this and i can
you know huddle this in my wallet or i can go buy things in real life with it and it's you can see
the the future is extremely bright because nostril is so small right now that you know that it's going

(24:57):
going to grow. And when it does grow and it continues to scale, that's when, like you said,
people are going to start making real livings off of this, like creating content for people.
And I think that that's just a much more beautiful world where creators of all kinds can make a
living just by posting their content for people. Because right now, you only see a very small few

(25:17):
people able to do that on the centralized platforms because they're incentivized to scrape as much
of the profits off those people as they can for themselves to please their shareholders,
but Nostra doesn't have that problem.
Mic drop?
What's that? Mic drop?
Yeah.
Would you agree with that?

(25:38):
I mean, so how big is Nostra right now?
It's still just like 40K daily.
40K active daily.
And what is it on Instagram?
It's like billions.
Facebook has billions.
It's crazy.
It's minuscule.
So we're just a tiny little fraction of the internet.
And what's the trend that you're seeing right now on growth?

(26:01):
It's flat.
Like we haven't been able to spike anything lately.
A lot of the world events are what brings growth.
Like Telegram CEO getting arrested.
Like TikTok being shut down.
I don't know how many times we've got to remember that like social media is broken.
But at the same time, it just gives us more time.

(26:21):
Nostra's not ready for the billions yet as much as I want it to be but I think that it's like the
people that are here the right ones and you know long-term oriented anyway and building things that
are going to last and bring us into a more decentralized age which I think will be better
for this time. So with that said that just knowing that we are early and there's definitely

(26:45):
work to do to really grow this thing.
What would you say is the reason for people to come and be early?
What are the benefits to joining now when it is still relatively small
and you're not going to be making a huge bucks yet,
but you could still make some.
Why should people still join?
Right now it is still full of a bunch of ideological people.

(27:06):
Just the idea of actually owning your own brand,
owning your own identity online.
I like to think of the analogy of the aliens looking down upon earth
and they see how we transact with money
and we work our whole lives for money
and the money can be manipulated like this

(27:27):
by a few people that can print the money
aliens would laugh at that
and then they'd also crack up at the fact that
our primary communications and way of sharing knowledge
is trapped in these corporations
that can easily be shut off and manipulate the content.
There's nothing stopping them from doing that.
Even though a CEO might seem based or cool or I might trust a CEO,

(27:51):
they're still human, and it's still a centralized risk, point of failure.
So I think they'd laugh at the fact that the information and the money
is not flowing around in a decentralized manner.
Noster frees information.
There's multiple ways to get the information out.
It doesn't get stuck in one point.
Not one person can shut you down.
not one person can take your identity from you.

(28:13):
So it's just such a better idea,
like almost objectively in my opinion,
the fact that you own your identity with this private key
that nobody can take or speak for you.
And I think, again, the aliens would laugh at us
saying that they've seen us around Mars,
but none of the humans on Earth wanted to take responsibility
and take care of a private key

(28:34):
in order to transmit information in a better way.
but we're early so you know we got to build the tool i hope brent pella is out there he just gave
you some content for a new alien video he likes making those alien comedy skits so question for
johnny now so the type of content you make is algorithm friendly you've gotten really good at

(28:56):
making this content that is eye-catching for people you're not like pushing any boundaries
that would you know piss people off and get you banned and censored at least for now maybe we'll
radicalize you. But, but so you're, what do you think it'll take to get those people that are
doing that, who are just creating the, the content that isn't really pushing the edges,

(29:21):
just risking getting kicked off of these platforms? Do you think it will just be
showing them that they can get paid? Because we're always looking at different ways to
connect with different people and why not should it be good for them? How would you pitch it to them?
I mean, for me the biggest thing on Oster is probably that you can post whatever you want at the end of the day.

(29:42):
Nobody is telling you what opinion you have to have and what you have to say.
So I think that's a big thing.
At the end of the day, each and every one of us has like a voice on the internet, right?
And if there's like one person as a CEO who can just mute you basically, just eradicate you in a way, that's not a good thing.

(30:06):
Not at all. And I think many people will come to realize this truth and come to a platform like Nostra.
And I think the biggest thing is also that the amount of followers you have will always stay with you.
So, for example, I started Instagram, right? And now I want to start YouTube, but I will start from zero, from zero followers.

(30:29):
and on Nostra once you gain followers they will always stick to your name and I think that's a
good thing so the the earlier you get started the better it is for you and he sees it right yeah
that's that's a big thing and also yeah I think at the end of the day or in the future
it will shift towards Nostra so the earlier you start the better yeah the better for you

(30:55):
Simple as that.

(31:25):
followers and you move you can move around different apps and they stick with you versus
the centralized model where if you're on instagram and you want to make a youtube channel you have to
go make a post that hey everyone go follow me over here and you start from zero and you have to work
to build that following and oh i'm on pinterest now you gotta follow me over there you gotta follow
me on facebook and it's just like people are so used to this as being the standard but it's really

(31:47):
dumb when you think about it and nostril just shifting it to where you have your social graph
just connected to your account and or your your npub if we're being technical right or your nsec
whatever you the private key your your keys are connected so you have this entire ecosystem of apps
which is continuing to grow all the time so all the people that are looking for an instagram like

(32:09):
experience um i know pablo's building uh olas which is like the instagram nostril client and
primal is like the twitter but you can also make it like the instagram client because it's
You can customize it so much and there will eventually be like LinkedIn clone clients and Facebook clone and Pinterest type of clients.
And so you'll basically have all the apps that you have right now, but you're going to have the followers across all of them and the value for value zapping ability on all of them.

(32:38):
So you can always earn for your value.
Have you zapped today?
Absolutely. Have you? I'm going to check you on that.
Check me.
And so I want to transition that to this idea of lots of creativity is being unlocked here for these different clients in the Nostra ecosystem where you can, any developer can create a new type of client.

(32:59):
So we're going to see things unlike we've ever seen before.
We're like, I was just mentioning how, you know, you'll see the ones that you know and love in the Nostraverse, but there's also going to be brand new kinds.
I'm curious, Sean, because you have an app right now that's like a exercise, like fitness app.
and I'm sure there will be fitness type clients in the future.
So how do you see that as you learn more about how Nostra works?

(33:21):
And, you know, could you ever see Upspace becoming like a Nostra client
if it was to plug into that ecosystem?
I've been brainstorming ways in order to implement that,
talking to Paul a lot.
We are trying to solve a different problem of like just health.
So just like, you know, Airbnb is not trying to solve the free speech problem.

(33:43):
they're trying to solve like hey how do you get dope rentals so it's a different like problem set
but it is related at the same time like health is important for the abuse free speech um and we saw
that especially during covid so that's how i actually got into this arena so it's definitely
piqued my interest from uh for us it's trying to see like how can we build a business where we can

(34:06):
pour resources into it and sustain ourselves but also bring it into the nostril environment which
is tricky one because right now we charge a subscription for access to everything so i got
to figure out how to kind of have that business model that sustains us where we don't have to have
ads which create the wrong incentive for us and bring it in i'm starting to have some ideas where

(34:27):
it could actually be a net win for us and them like even having auth where nostril users can sign
in through upspace those followers carry out and then as they interact in the upspace platform that
that gets shared throughout the Noster ecosystem.
And maybe there's some stuff that is still closed
or behind that paywall which would be in a different either relay or just in our own servers But then there is the interactions with that stuff and the engagement with that that can also live on the Noster channel So it kind of bridges the two worlds together

(34:59):
something like that.
And these are just ways I've been brainstorming,
but I don't know.
It's definitely interesting
because I'm passionate about both subjects
and they're related.
And you mentioned how like your monetization model
is subscription-based right now.
And there's all sorts of monetization models.
Another one is just ads.
A lot of platforms just have ads and it's ad based.

(35:22):
People are like creators out there, like we were talking about Johnny earlier, and you
have to go out yourself and find ways to monetize through sponsorships and partnerships.
But I think that just having the value for value stream unlocked is a good way to just
have a baseline of some income from people who care about you and can kind of float you.
Eventually, I think we would agree that we see that being substantial to where it could

(35:45):
be your entire monetization income as a creator. But in the, in the meantime, in the early days,
like right now, it's, it's a good dot connector, you know, because like for my podcast, I'm,
I've made like personal sacrifices on like, you know, opportunities to make partnerships and
sponsorships I haven't done because I really want to focus on just creating tons and tons of episodes

(36:08):
of content to really get the value for value flow moving. And I think I've had like, you know,
probably nine out of 10 episodes get some zaps through fountain and on Nostra as well when I post
it. So it's, it's exciting seeing it start to buzz. Yeah. I'm not, I mean, who knows what will happen
in the future? I don't know if I'll be able to do this forever because I do need to make money,
but it's, it's really cool to see that. And it is tempting to just completely go all in on this,

(36:34):
even if you have to live on a poverty line for a while and just like see those, because that is
the dream where you just have your network of people, your followers on Noster and your podcast
subscribers or followers wherever and be able to completely monetize directly from those people.
And I'm just super excited about all the different... And we haven't even talked about how

(36:56):
the fact that there are all these different clients out there that are going to be competing
for people's attention and offering interesting new ways for people to monetize as well that
could completely change everything at some point.
And having that free market competition is interesting.
And this is a good question for you, Paul,
which is, you know, you work with Primal.
We're all huge Primal fans here,
but you're also not like trying to hide people

(37:18):
from seeing that there's a whole ecosystem
of other clients out here.
So how do you think having that free market
of different options changes the social media game
and how it works for people using it?
You make Nostra better, Primal wins.
Yep.
you make bitcoin better bitcoin wins it's similar to bitcoin in that if somebody brings a lot of

(37:40):
users well bitcoin's a little bit different because there's a monetary piece to it if you
improve bitcoin and make it more accessible for more people the more people are going to hold it
the price goes up there's no shit coin on nostr but the users like if you get more users to this
ecosystem that's an automatic like potential user for your app so say like a crazy flappy bird app

(38:01):
that's somehow built on Nostra.
It goes super viral, and all these endpubs are created.
And next thing you know, Primal could get some of those users.
They find Primal, and they find it's like,
oh, this is a great place where I could post and share,
and I like to zap, blah, blah, blah, win.
So it's pretty cool how anything can build it up.

(38:22):
So we just want to scale Nostra because we think it's a great idea.
It's all about just bringing people in right now, basically.
And everybody wins.
Same as Bitcoin, kind of.
I feel like Bitcoin has a similar, or Bitcoiners are talking about how we just need to get people off zero,
get people in the game, bridge them in, and Noster is sort of the same, like early days for both.
Yeah, and I guess I think, I wasn't sold on this before, but I'm pretty damn sold on it now.

(38:47):
So many friends watching this, like Giles said earlier, how he's now accepting Bitcoin for payment.
I think Noster is the tool to get people off of zero and to get us to a real Bitcoin standard.
this whole social layer that we're building is 100% necessary for the Bitcoin standard if we want to
live that censorship resistant comms and social media like come on and throw a lightning address

(39:10):
in there their wallets in there it's like all part of the infrastructure that if we really want to
go to a hyper Bitcoinized world we actually need this and that's the other thing like Patreon and
OnlyFans and all this stuff exists and they don't use Bitcoin because it wasn't easy at that time
and not everybody's on the bitcoin standard obviously like very very small amount of people

(39:32):
are but as fiat continues to die and bitcoin continues to rise the reasons to be bullish are
just endless so as more people are going to be willing to actually spend and use the best money
we'll probably see creators be able to thrive and grow and actually make livings off nostril

(39:57):
and yeah, for value, for value.
So one of the things that us in the Nosterverse
always talk about is how the purple pill
is a great chaser or a starter
to get people into the orange pill of Bitcoin.
Yeah, precursor, that's what I was going for.
And I'm curious for Giles and Johnny
because were you guys into Bitcoin before

(40:18):
or is Noster sort of your intro to all of this?
Because I'm curious like how,
as you got more into Noster,
like how your views of Bitcoin
have emerged from that if that's how it started yeah i was somewhat into bitcoin but getting on
primal and also living in the primal house is like full throttle like yeah i've gone down the rabbit

(40:41):
hole um and like yeah i'm pretty converted at this point because of primal um yeah i don't know
about you johnny yeah well i heard of bitcoin before and i looked into it a little bit but
on not on a deeper level like we do now and in costa rica you can actually use bitcoin all

(41:03):
everywhere basically so it's actually very usable in the daily life in germany that was i mean yeah
some places maybe but not as much unfortunately yeah the primal house helped me to see things more
more clearly and also I got to know more about the origin of money and how everything evolved

(41:27):
to what we have now and I encourage everybody to look into this what is money and where does
it come from because that's really crucial that's the question yeah and it's it's so crucial and
Paul you you went on speaking of what is money you went on Robert Breedlove's podcast a couple
weeks ago he has a what is money show you know this is such a big question that's coming out

(41:49):
and people are starting to ask this.
I'm curious of what is your answer to that, Paul?
Because you've been in the Bitcoin world for a while.
What is your answer to the what is money question?
I know Robert must have asked you that.
No, I don't think he asked me.
Did he not ask you?
I think I dropped the question.
You dropped the ball.
That's his whole thing.

(42:09):
You know, I just love the quote.
This one just like hit me super deep, you know,
like why work for money that another man can print for free?
And it's deeply internalized that.
you realize that fiat's not money gold's pretty good money and bitcoin's way better than gold
yeah i like that too because just the why would you work for a money that another man can print

(42:31):
is a powerful view because i think that so many people out there don't understand how hard they're
getting screwed and bitcoin is one way that they can start learning about that more yeah i just
read a story did you read the story there's this lady that's just been a housekeeper in the in
florida and she's been stacking sats and um for like seven or eight years now just working at a

(42:57):
hotel washing you know the rooms she's almost at a whole coin now wow amazing that's all bitcoin
is to me is just this way to save money over time like it actually kind of makes me angry
i don't know like the fact that people don't just save in bitcoin especially like around here and
you know, poor countries like the people just started saving little by little in Bitcoin. Yeah, we got to make tools that are trustworthy

(43:21):
custodial of our self custodial debate. That's out the window. But just
If you save in Bitcoin over time, you're gonna get more wealthy
And that's it and that's the promise of Bitcoin. That's what makes good money
Right the people complain that eggs and everything else is getting more expensive
But if you buy it in Bitcoin everything is less expensive over time. That's the best thing about it, right?

(43:45):
And I'm looking over here at Romar and Camila having their steak.
Happy birthday.
Happy birthday, Romar.
We're talking about money right now.
I'm curious if either of you want to talk about Argentina, the money in Argentina,

(44:06):
because have you followed how the inflation situation was over there, the hyperinflation?
and would you like to like share your thoughts on how bitcoin is changing that crazy situation
all right we're coming over can you just move that we're gonna make this like a moving show
yeah show the steak yeah it's burning right now look at this beautiful steak

(44:31):
tomahawk action
that's a birthday girl
get the mic right next to the sizzle
so
so Romar you are
the sister of Mikael I need to bring Mikael
on the show he wrote an awesome book about all this stuff

(44:52):
which we have here Mikael
tell me about just your view
of money growing up in Argentina
because did you see the hyperinflation
going on growing up there
did this affect your life
yes of course
Okay, right now we are living in a moment that the dollar is stopped, it's not growing up the price, but the things, the life, every day is expensive.

(45:20):
Sorry.
Okay.
Okay.
Four years ago, approximately, the dollar was in 300 pesos four years ago.
Right now, it's 1,100, yeah?

(45:42):
And change every day a little bit, more, less.
Right now, we accept exchange with the central bank.
Right now, it's $1, because in the past,
we have $1 for everything.
$1 for import products, $1 for the meat, $1 for the Zoya,

(46:04):
for the different things we sell.
And other ones to import.
So right now, we have $1.
For one hand, it's beautiful because it's supposed to start to be one line.
But the things will be more expensive because in the past we have a dollar for import things,

(46:28):
very cheap, than the other one.
want to buy dollars okay and another thing happens is we go out the sepo
the sepo is that you can't buy dollars in argentina yeah it's like illegal right you have
to go in this black market weird underground thing to get like stacks of dollars exactly so

(46:49):
right now we have ability to buy dollars that helps of course but start something strange in
the people too because the people used to have scared about what will happen all the time because
we don't know in argentina it's like a montaña rusa all the time so right now the people is like

(47:10):
okay waiting but for the last duda expecting i will increase my the price of my products right and so
So this changed the rules all the time.
The prices continue growing up.
Argentina right now is very expensive.

(47:31):
So it's like Costa Rica.
Costa Rica for you Americans are expensive, right?
When you want to buy food, clothes.
But I can't see a big difference.
Because in two years, our country changed a lot.
In the past, the tourists came.
I want to travel everywhere right now.

(47:53):
And now, for example, oil is the same as the United States.
And before it was like the half.
So like it was really cheap.
It was like fake money, you know, like they retain all the things.
So now it's like they exploded.
That's why like now inflation is in the middle, like staying by.

(48:14):
But we live in expectations.
It's stabilized.
Stabilized, yes, we think.
in Bitcoin knows that like stabilizing
fiat is usually just suppressing
something else. It's inherently
unstable. They're just like papering
over it with politics.
True.
I think that is done, but we don't know.
It's expensive than Argentina, of course.

(48:34):
Before it wasn't.
Oh, okay. Tell me you. Before what?
No, I don't know. I never was there.
The mid, wait.
Yes, for example.
You know like construction people?
They always, there's a
tradition on Fridays they do barbecue and for example now that things are more
expensive they have like to buy other things and they could reach that part so

(48:57):
because meat has elevated a lot yeah yes but like everything it's not only the
meat like this one thing more it's mostly meat oil Argentina is mostly meat
For example, yeah, I love a warm mint.
We care about meat, right?
No, it's true.
And so what do you think is in store for the future?

(49:19):
Like, do you, because you've been following Bitcoin for a while.
How long have you been following Bitcoin? Years?
2020.
So like five years of Bitcoin following.
Yeah.
What do you think is in store for the future of Argentina?
Because the people there have this history of seeing what hyperinflation does
and all that uncertainty around it.

(49:40):
you mentioned that people are like scared because they don't know what's going to happen
they're unable to plan for the future and the bitcoin world knows that that this is a solution
bitcoin will fix this so do you think they will bring bitcoin in or is the government going to
fight it like how do you or will the people just start using and say the government what are they
going to do so i'm seeing something that is not only for argentina it's for a lot of countries

(50:03):
that the president starts abounding like oh this cryptocurrency you see buy this and the people
maybe buy and then in every paper in every news you see that oh the president um i love this crypto
and go down so no crypto bitcoin is the same they don't understand that bitcoin is different

(50:23):
another thing in their in their health is the same so we need to start making big movement to
to open the eyes of the people because I feel that day a day is more confused.

(50:44):
You have more disinformation than real information.
It's not only in Argentina, it's everywhere.
You see the president, say the same, Trump, Millet, with Libra, right?
If you know.
I was living in Buenos Aires when he did his whole shitcoin thing.
And it was so disappointing because.
We thought there was hope.
We, a lot of Bitcoiners thought there was hope there,

(51:06):
but he totally went shitcoin route.
So I don't know what he's still doing now, but I mean,
I still consider it a net positive that, you know,
there's just crazy people that are saying things outside
of the Overton window that we talk about.
Like they're bringing crazy new ideas,
more libertarian concepts, and it's getting more people
to look at things like Bitcoin.
Did you, did you find that more people were starting
to talk about Bitcoin and learn about it?

(51:29):
the Uber rider, for example, the people who are Uber
are more from Venezuela and other countries.
And I can talk with them like equals.
OK, they understand.
But it's the same that the persons who
need something outside their own country

(51:54):
and learn about it and start investing in that,
not more like um savings right like um yeah savings so i'm hope of course that this will
um start to the thing is this one in argentina the more normal things to buy dollar cash

(52:21):
Argentina, I think it's the second country in the world that have more dollars in cash.
Because the people save that.
More dollars than the local currency of pesos, you mean?
Exactly.
Oh, like total.
Oh, mostly save in paper.
In cash, exactly.
Oh, like in paper, okay.
In paper.
Yeah.

(52:42):
Exactly, that.
Like the classic under the mattress savings.
Of course.
Wow.
So imagine now that they can buy dollars is something that people is doing right now, buying dollars.
When they start seeing that the dollar is losing value, when they understand, really understand that,

(53:08):
maybe they start seeing Bitcoin.
But right now they have a cloud here with dollars and dollars because it's the only thing they really know.
I think that new generations are going to do that.
Yeah, of course.
That new generations are going to do that.
Our parents are like, no, that is impossible to be saved. It's fake money.

(53:30):
You will lose it. So it's like you don't have education in Argentina in general.
In general.
Their child is open to the eyes of them.
The young generation is more open.
It's more open.
We can see that in all types of things.
Money, education, the mind, I don't know.
But it's in general, right?

(53:52):
It everywhere Like technological solutions are not scary to young people like they are to the adults And I feel like they kind of just still shell from going through those negative experiences with money So they just trying to like latch on to something that has some ability to stay stable
which to them, the dollar is more stable than the peso.
So they're like, this is it.

(54:13):
We have to stick to this.
But those of us in Bitcoin know that the dollar is just the slowest sinking fiat ship.
Of course, they are always cool.
Like, I need to see it.
I need to touch it.
And I also thought about the dollar, it's also connected by the United States.
Like, we see it like, oh, United States is the best, so that's why.
It's Hollywood.

(54:33):
We're the best.
Yeah.
I had to make sure I got this.
No, yeah, but that's why, like, Argentina all think that,
so that's why they say we have to save in dollars and not in other things.
Like, pesos is a disaster.
It's a paper that doesn't get nothing, but we have to save in dollars.
It's better than pesos.
I think that is also just for that.

(54:54):
Do you think that this trust in the U.S. is going to stay there?
Because we're kind of insane.
I think that now with Millay, yes.
For now, yes.
For a while.
Yes, for now, yes.
Because him and Trump are homies.
Yeah, they are like friends.
Friendship.
Hopefully, like, do you think that the people feel the same way, though?

(55:15):
Or is that just like a political thing?
Because all around the world, people are becoming less trusting of politicians in general.
So do you think that people are not really just trusting because Malay is?
Are they breaking free?
No, I don't think so.
Are they still trusting of authority?
Because I think that it was hard to get Malay there.
We have like Peronismo in Argentina.
And a lot of people like tend to that way.

(55:37):
So that people hate United States.
So I don't think that will happen.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Like we have a lot of Peronismos in Argentina.
What's Peronismo?
It's like a rama.
How do you say a rama?
Como la rama del peronismo.
Tipo, I don't know.
There was a president that continued like an idea.

(56:01):
And there was like a long history about that idea.
And people like get fanatic about that.
It's not like logical thinking.
It's not like, I love Perón.
and they have images of that president in their fridge
and it's like, it's not rational, I think.

(56:22):
So that's why I don't think about the United States.
I got you.
Thank you for all that insight.
That's what I was thinking, dude.
We got Germany, Australia, America, Argentina.
Let's get Italy in here.
Let's bombard this cooking here.
Go, go, go, go, go.
Amore, you're famous.

(56:42):
We're bringing everyone into this.
So you are next.
I don't care if you're making carrots.
We're talking about Bitcoin today.
And we've talked about, well, we could go like Nostra or Bitcoin, but I think Bitcoin is interesting.
How do you see Bitcoin being ingrained in Italy?
Do you see it being adopted there?
I assume you still keep in touch with the people back home.

(57:03):
Like, what are people thinking about it?
In Italy, I think it's going to be very slow, Bitcoin adoption.
but at the same time
if we bring more awareness
you know like to our places
like Bitcoin Jungle
we can spread the voice
like for example my friends and my brother

(57:25):
that they came here
and they actually like experience
you know like how is
the life here and you can actually spend
and use your Bitcoin
they kind of want to bring
the same in Italy
at the same time
yeah there are like a lot of regulations
you know so
you never know

(57:45):
um
but at the same time
yeah
maybe it will happen at some point
maybe
stop
wait put it on yourself
Paul's getting a snack here
there's a real reason why we came in here

(58:08):
alright we gotta leave the kitchen
All right, we're getting kicked out of the kitchen.
Let's bring it back.
Let's bring it back.
Well, how long have we been going, dude?
We've been going an hour.
That's an hour?
Giles has something to say.
I'm coming, Giles.
Thank you, Satoshi.
Thank you.
Thank you, Satoshi.

(58:29):
No, just one of the beautiful things about Primal and Nostra
is the vibe is completely different to, like,
centralized like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. That's something that I was really, yeah, that
really interested me in the beginning of like, this is so different, like this vibe, like the

(58:50):
algorithm isn't there to just like eat your soul away. There was like something really pure and
down to earth about the community and the people on there. And I think that's what, yeah, like
really resonated with me in the beginning. And like, aside from like seeing those sats and being
able to pay for the eggs in the beginning it was like these are cool humans like these are cool

(59:11):
people like posting about interesting things on my feed and I really really like that um yeah and
I think a lot a lot more people should like try and see social media through that different lens
and yeah and one of the things we talked about earlier was like what are the benefits to being
early to Noster and we could call that a benefit because right now the only people on there are

(59:32):
just like the real forward thinking go-getters who are you know extremists in their field in a good
way and you're just seeing all these people that are just doing crazy things and really just fearless
and looking for the the future and not afraid to come out and a lot of people who are getting
canceled everywhere else too for for things that they say yeah so like free speech is finally free

(59:56):
as well uh question for both of you guys we got since we got johnny and giles here again we were
talking a little bit over with Argentinians and the Italian over in the kitchen, how different
countries, the Italian, we have a, I had to admit, like we have so many in here right now. So that's

(01:00:16):
pretty cool. But just, I'm curious of your thoughts about Bitcoin entering your country. Like, how do
you see, like, how will Bitcoin be received on Australia? I know that they have like the Bitcoin
Bush Bash. I'm not sure if you've heard of that. Have you heard of that? It's apparently this really
cool, like, like out in the bush, they have this like get together of Bitcoiners and there's the

(01:00:36):
Bitcoin Alive, which is in Sydney, which is like a big conference. Yeah. So there's definitely
some Bitcoin people there that are starting to generate some buzz. But what do you think,
like, what is the state of the country right now in terms of like self-sovereignty and
trust for authority based on the last few years? And how do you think Bitcoin will fit into that?
I think it'll be very well received in Australia, generally speaking.

(01:00:57):
Like, we're pretty progressive.
COVID brought a lot of shit to the surface in terms of people starting to go, hang on, like, start to question the system and, yeah, what's going on.
So, yeah, I think most people are going to welcome it with open arms.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
How about you, Johnny?

(01:01:17):
How does Germany look for you?
Because Europe as a whole is in kind of a weird situation right now A lot of shit going down over there And we have a lot of Bitcoiners in there too though And I talked to I had German people reach out to me on Noster DMs and say like
I love what you're posting, like, keep it up.
And like, let me know if you ever come here because we got meetups.
So they're definitely starting to pop up.

(01:01:39):
Like, what are your thoughts on Bitcoin in Germany?
I'm not really sure.
I think, so in Germany, there's like two, to both extremes.
So I think, yeah, some people will welcome it and will see the benefits of it.
And some people will reject it because they are, quite frankly, a little bit mind controlled.

(01:02:01):
So, yeah, it's, I don't, I don't really know.
I don't really know.
And Noster is interesting for that too, because we don't need to get into crazy details,
but Germany, like it's literally illegal to homeschool.
So like they're, they're making it really.
So you have to go down a certain track of education where the government decides what

(01:02:25):
the kids learn and it's, you go to jail if you say certain things wrong.
And to me, Noster is very interesting because that opens up, you know, people can start
making anonymous accounts and actually participating and they can come on there and no one can
shut them down anymore.
So how do you think that will awaken people and empower people to speak up and change things?

(01:02:47):
I mean, yeah, that's a big part.
You don't need anybody to tell you what's the truth and what's not.
Because at the end of the day, the truth will always prevail.
So you don't have to fight the truth or fight lies.
You can always, yeah.
So I think, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that's what we mentioned earlier, right?

(01:03:07):
And that's why NASA is such a big improvement in comparison to the other social medias.
And I think it opens up a big opportunity to reveal all the lies that have been fed to the people.
And to fight lies with truth.
Without having a middleman that is saying what is the truth and what's not.

(01:03:33):
So people will find out themselves.
And for me, it's given me a lot of hope and humanity just using Nostra because you really see real people interacting with each other without these big tech algorithms in the middle, like you said, like you're taking the middleman out.
And it's been a big experiment.
And one of the parts of the experiment was, are people actually going to participate in this value for value thing where they send their Bitcoin to people?

(01:03:58):
Like, why would anyone send their Bitcoin to someone?
You know, they want to hold their Bitcoin, right?
But what we see is tons of people are happily sending their Bitcoin all over the place.
It's fun.
It feels good to reward people for their content and reward them for stepping outside the box.
So I think that's a beautiful white pill here is that when people are just given the right technological tools,

(01:04:19):
they will naturally do beautiful things and they'll share with each other and lift each other up and create these great outcomes.
What everybody should know is that it's not only great to take things and to receive, but it's also amazing to give.
And that's a real pleasure, to give to others.
And I think NASA is a prime example of that.

(01:04:42):
I have a theory that every Zap sent out comes back 10x, and I think I proved that yesterday.
Yeah.
Wait, wait, elaborate on that.
Nothing to elaborate.
No, about the gender of the deal that we already mentioned.
Yeah, yeah.
So that just like proves my theory further every zap you send comes back 10x
Because people on there will see when you're zapping them

(01:05:03):
So they're building an appreciation for you like look at this Paul guy
He's sending me all these every time it's one two three. I see Paul's beautiful face there
Three two one dude. I'm a fat one somehow is that more than my CEO is that more than Odell?
It's absolutely retarded. I zap so many sets that my grandchildren think I'm retarded which is a very big claim
And the way that Primal is set up, which is beautiful, is it shows the top zappers under every post.

(01:05:26):
So the people who are friendly and generous with their zaps are actually rewarded with...
Free advertising.
Yeah, free advertising.
It's called zappetizing.
And I have my podcast link in mind.
So I'm incentivized to give people big zaps.
So then it's advertising my podcast.
But it's also those people are receiving that money and saying,
Paul's such a cool guy for giving me all these stats.
Appreciate it.

(01:05:47):
And then when you post your big video, they're going to throw it back at you, like you said.
It was pretty cool.
And I definitely think there's more than just like the Zappertizing and all that.
I think there's like some general life principle going on there.
The more you give, the more you get back.
I think it's the same with Zapping.
Yeah.
Nostra unlocks like the true human togetherness and love for each other.

(01:06:08):
Well, that's the cool thing is that Nostra is some nerd speak notes and other stuff transmitted by relays.
Nostra, Nostra
In Italian, what does that mean, Giaus?
Nostra?
Ours
Ours
This is our social network
It's our
We own it
And we're building it
It's ours
I don't think Fiat Jav intended for that

(01:06:28):
I don't think so either
In Nuestro, in Espanol
It means ours as well
Yeah
So Nostra is ours
And it's like our chance to build these systems
That have been great
You know
Just with intent
You know
Fiat in Italian means theirs
No way.
It actually does?
No.
Are you f***ing with us?
Okay.
It doesn't mean like it's going to be fiat looks like it's going to be light.

(01:06:56):
Fiat means by decree.
By decree.
By decree.
So fiat means you're forced to it.
You're forced into it.
And so there's so many interesting analogies between Bitcoin and Oster that are just super
cool.
Gentlemen, is there anything else we want to cover here?
We've kind of gotten into a lot of stuff.
I'm zooming in on your nipples.
Zoom in further.
More detail.

(01:07:17):
More hair.
I think that, what is it, like hour 15, hour 30?
Hour 10.
Beautiful.
I mean, anything else you guys want to throw in here while we're still live?
Before we wrap it up.
Do you have a message?
Let's end it with a message to the people of the world.
If you had a microphone.
Actually, we'll give this to everybody.
This is a good one.

(01:07:37):
If you had a microphone for a minute to tell the whole world one specific message, what would you tell them?
Or it can be more than a minute.
Just give out your message to the world.
This is generally speaking.
Generally speaking.
What do you think people need to hear right now?
There's literally a giant TV screen pops up in the sky.
Billions of people are going to hear your voice.

(01:07:59):
What do you think is going to help the most people?
I would say something like if you want to live a fulfilled life, then you have to have a vision.
and that doesn't mean to be unsatisfied with what you have now.
That just means you have something to look forward to.
And I think the universe will always make ways and room for your dream to come true.

(01:08:19):
So no matter what, follow your dreams and enjoy life.
And in my opinion, that's a way to live a fulfilled life.
So, yeah.
Giles, you're up.
What's your message to the universe?
I'm still kind of thinking about it, but...
I think at this point in time with the amount of stimulation that out there try and yeah de yourself almost to the point where you get bored and you have so much time that you forced to just increase your self to a point that like you got to figure out what you doing here what your purpose is

(01:09:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to keep it short.
Beautiful.
Let's hear it, Paul.
That was pretty beautiful.
I think I guess just the word that keeps popping in my brain is just fun.
I wonder, yeah, like actually prioritizing play.
If you prioritize that in your life, I think things will align.

(01:09:28):
Go surfing every morning and every evening.
I mean, it's hard to play out.
Like, is that really true?
But, you know, places where there's poverty and whatever.
But I think if you prioritize it, see what happens.
Play first.
That is a good one because so many people have forgotten that that is what humans are supposed to be doing all the time.

(01:09:49):
We're supposed to be having fun doing things.
It's the highest form of being.
Yeah.
Like kids are supposed to be out in a playground, like, you know, out in nature doing things, having fun.
And now they're just like stuffed into a classroom and told to memorize stuff.
And I think that's where the problem starts for a lot of people is just being trained to not be your free, weird, crazy self.

(01:10:10):
And that's why this house has been so fun to live in because everyone's weird and crazy.
And it's just been awesome to see more people that are living that life and feeling that way.
And when you expand that out even further, Nostra is full of them.
It's full of weirdos.
Keep asking weird, baby.
So many weirdos on Nostra.
We love it.
And they get more zaps for it because we zap the weirdos extra.

(01:10:31):
Zap the change you want to see in the world.
Yes.
Yes.
All right.
Should we go down and get some more messages from people?
Let's continue.
Laura, can we bug you one more time?
We are...
That's a deep question
that Ben's about to ask you.
If you had your chance...
I'm going to keep the camera on Paul

(01:10:52):
to make sure he doesn't eat anything.
Okay, yeah, stay here.
So I'll keep track of you.
The question for you, Laura, is
what do you think is the message
that needs to be heard by the world right now?
If you had the opportunity
to talk to everybody out there,
what do people need to know
that they're missing right now?
Other than make more babies, the most important thing.
In general?

(01:11:13):
Yes.
That you have freedom of choice, always.
So if you feel that you don't fit in the box where you are, like in your city,
you always have the option to go somewhere else and find your community.
That's what happened to me.
So I felt that I wasn't, like, fitting in the box where I was.

(01:11:36):
and I went out and I just like discovered a new world and I discovered Bitcoin I discovered
Noster I discovered like a beautiful community I reconnect with nature so yeah just like know that
it doesn't matter like there is always an option you can always like reclaim your freedom back

(01:11:56):
there are like many beautiful places in the world where you can be happy and if you are not there
stop complaining and start doing something, you know.
Embrace the self-sovereign lifestyle
with the tools that we have at our disposal,
Bitcoin and Nostra doing that.
Thank you very much, Laura.
That was wonderful.

(01:12:17):
That was an amazing award.
Yes.
Argentinians.
We're back in Argentina.
We're coming back.
We're coming back to Argentina.
All right.
New question for both of you.
Last question.
Don't worry.
Last question.
As your brain is being nourished by those wonderful steaky nutrients,

(01:12:40):
your question is, well, it's not a question so much,
but if you had the opportunity, which I'm giving you right now,
to just give your message to the world,
what do you think the people of the world need to hear right now
to upgrade their life and become a higher version of themselves?
Where are they missing?
English or Espanol?
English preferred.
that's a heavy question to drop on someone

(01:13:04):
you can take some time i can i can prop it out you need to chill out okay okay so look at that
and i have something to say oh she's got something to say on her birthday
So today morning I was thinking we have a beautiful morning at 5 a.m.

(01:13:32):
We went to the gym at 6.30.
We was having a very good breath work.
And then we jumped in a waterfall.
And in that moment I think, oh, that is because I'm with the right people, you know.
So my recommendation is to be with the people that share the same values and make you to be your best version of yourself.

(01:14:08):
That was beautiful.
Excellent.
Beautiful.
How are you going to back that one up?
I have a lot of pressure.
I'm going to do it right on my face.
I have a lot of pressure and well, of course, that I don't know what to say right now.
But to adding something to that is to do things that encourage encourage you day by day,

(01:14:35):
because then like I think that you will regret it.
Like it happens to me in all the things that we did today.
Like I pass my limit all the time.
I enjoy it a lot.
I want to include a link to the video of you jumping off of this cliff this morning, which both of you did.

(01:14:56):
I'm so proud of you guys.
This is a big jump at this waterfall we go to every morning.
And you guys both did it, and it was freaking awesome to watch.
So, that is...
So, wait a minute. Let's chill everybody. That's primal.net slash romar.
primal.net slash cami.
We'll include links to everybody in here for sure.
We've had so many wonderful people with so many different countries involved here.

(01:15:19):
And here, can we just put this thing over here?
Finish it up here?
As they're just like eating their steak.
Perfect.
It's been wonderful, boys and girls.
I think that this is a good time to wrap it up.
We've had a lot of wonderful conversations today.
Is this going to be the thumbnail?
Should we all jump?
Should we jump?
We should all get together.
Let's get everyone together for a big hug.

(01:15:42):
Oh, she's gone.
she might be upstairs and busy all right paul get up there friends appreciate you coming by for the
episode today to meeting all my wonderful friends here in a primal house in costa rica i've had a
wonderful time here thank you paul for making this happen for all of us and lara wherever she is

(01:16:05):
and uh hope everyone enjoyed hearing all these conversations from these different people
and have a good one.
Have a wonderful day.
Bye-bye.
Pura Vida.
Pura Vida.
Zap.
Zap.
Zap, zap.
Zap, zap, zap.

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#123 The Primal House - How Nostr Empowers Creators and Elevates Humanity

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#123 The Primal House - How Nostr Empowers Creators and Elevates Humanity