February 23, 2026 • 47 mins
We are facing a mental health crisis with rising distress and illness, especially among youth. In this episode, we explore the connection between faith, mental health, and science, and reflect on what is driving this epidemic and how we can support those affected.
Joining Bishop Kevin Sweeney and Communications Director Jai Agnish are guests Beth Hlabse and Christina Liparini for a remote episode recorded at Saint Elizabeth University in Morris Township.
Hlabse is Program Director of the Fiat Program on Faith and Mental Health at the McGrath Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana.
Liparini is Assistant Professor of Psychology and Doctoral Program Director at Saint Elizabeth University.
Show Notes:
- Fiat Program on Faith and Mental Health - University of Notre Dame
- Psychology Dept. - Saint Elizabeth University
- Mental Health Matters Workshop
- New Jersey Catholic Mental Health Conference
Email questions and topic ideas to Bishop Kevin at beyond@patersondiocese.org.
Produced by Jai Agnish, Andrea M. Adams of Saint Elizabeth University, and Bishop Kevin J. Sweeney for the Diocese of Paterson. Engineered by Brandon Hutchinson of Saint Elizabeth University. Edited and theme song by Jai Agnish. Illustrations by Dennis Dalelio.
Beyond The Beacon on Instagram and Facebook. Bishop Kevin on Instagram. The Diocese of Paterson on Instagram, Facebook (English) / Facebook (Spanish).
Every three years, each Diocese in the USA has the graced opportunity to make a scheduled pilgrimage as one Diocesan family with their Bishop to the National Shrine in the nation's capital. 2026 is once again "our year!" Please note the two-day and one-day options: Oct. 16, Friday, and Oct. 17, Saturday. Visit the Diocese of Paterson website here to learn more!
On Coffee with Kupke, we have a cup of coffee and sit down with diocesan archivist, Monsignor Raymond Kupke Ph.D., to delve into the history of Catholicism in the Diocese of Paterson, N.J. Hosted by Father Paul Manning and Msgr. Kupke. Listen to Coffee with Kupke wherever you get your podcasts, or watch it on the St. Paul Inside the Walls YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@stpaulinsidethewalls.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin
Sweeney, a podcast of theDiocese of Patterson, New
Jersey.
Join us for conversations aboutour Catholic faith, and
together, let's strive to live alife of faith, hope, and love.
We're so glad you can join us.
With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeneyand our guests.
Bishop, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm good, Jay.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
I'm doing well, thanks.
Where the heck are we?
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
Grateful to the uh St.
Elizabeth's University here inConvent Station, uh, who's
hosting a big event tonight thatwe'll hear about and um uh happy
to be back in this studentwonderful studio that they have
and uh and to be with ourguests, who I think Jay is gonna
introduce.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Yeah, so starting all the way down at the end of
the table is Chris Slipperini uhand to her left is Beth Lapsey.
Um they are both uh experts inthe area of mental health, so
we're gonna have a conversation.
Uh we're gonna explore theconnection between faith, mental
health, and science.
I'll do the longer background inin a little while here, but why
(01:09):
don't we uh start start withprayer?
Start with a prayer, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Um well as as we begun uh we're taping we're
recording this the day after AshWednesday as we've entered now
into the holy season of Lent andwe look to God's um grace and
and blessings and uh and also umpray for healing uh for all in
need of healing and and forthose in ministry, um whether it
(01:36):
be in as a priest or religiousor as a teacher or as a
counselor, um uh we know there'sa need, uh, especially in our
current context and culture andum for young people, for
families, for couples, we might,as we pray, um remember those
that might be struggling at thistime and uh let them know that
(01:58):
they're not alone and um andthat that help is available so
we can place ourselves in God'spresence in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of theHoly Spirit.
Amen.
And let us ask Jesus to bless uswith the gifts and help of the
Holy Spirit as we seek to knowthe Father's will and do the
Father's will.
(02:18):
And as we ask the gifts andguidance of the Holy Spirit, we
also ask the help andintercession of Mary, our
blessed mother, as we pray.
Hail Mary, full of grace, theLord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,and blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, prayfor us sinners, now and at the
(02:40):
hour of our death.
Amen.
Our Lady's seat of wisdom,Mother of the Church, pray for
us.
St.
Elizabeth Ann Seton, pray forus.
All holy men and women, pray forus in the name of the Father and
of the Son, and of the HolySpirit.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Okay.
Thanks, Bishop.
So uh Yeah, so our topic fortoday is we are so we're facing
a mental health crisis withrising distress and illness,
especially among the youth.
So in this episode, like I said,we're going to explore the
connection between faith, mentalhealth, and science and reflect
on what is driving this epidemicand how we can support those
(03:14):
affected.
So again, our so Beth BethLapsey to your right, Bishop, is
program director of the Fiatprogram.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Just drive uh off the plane, right for the right.
SPEAKER_05 (03:25):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
You made it.
She's the uh program directorfor the Fiat program of faith
and mental health at the McGrathInstitute for Church Life at the
University of Notre Dame inIndiana.
She's in town to give a lecturetonight here at St.
Elizabeth University.
This the lecture explores howfaith and science together
illuminate the causes of mentalillness and guide us in caring
(03:46):
for ourselves and others.
Chris Lipperini, Dr.
Lipperini, is assistantprofessor of psychology and
doctoral program director hereat St.
Elizabeth University.
She's been in this role since2022.
Prior to that, she spent 15years teaching at Seton Hall
University in the Department ofProfessional Psychology and
Family Therapy.
(04:07):
During her time there, shedeveloped the relationships with
several area nonprofits so thatstudents could engage in social
justice work with underservedpopulations.
She has a clinical background inadolescent and young adult
mental health.
So there you have it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Welcome.
Thank you.
Thanks for being with us.
We were talking a little bitbefore, and I forgot to ask, but
we were reminded by Jay, I don'twant to put you on the spot, but
uh four years of the programFiat.
Um do you know how they cameabout choosing the name Fiat?
SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Well, thanks be to God, I do, Bishop.
Um really Our Lady put it on ourheart, and we were discerning at
the McGrath Institute becausethe Lord had really invited us
to do more by way of support forthe church in the area of mental
health.
And Notre Dame, our Lady'sUniversity, uh, it it came upon
(04:59):
our heart that it was meant tobe called fiat.
So, Gospel of Luke, when theangel Gabriel comes to Mary and
says that she's to conceive andbear a son who is Christ, um,
she proclaims, May it be doneunto me according to your will.
Um, fiat, Mihi, is the Latin.
And as we were pondering, whyare we meant to be called fiat?
(05:20):
I think the Lord revealed it'seach one of us is called to echo
Mary, Mary's fiat.
Each one of us is called to sayyes, to receive the body of
Christ, and that's our neighborhere on earth.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Right, right.
And I think uh Mother Teresamight have put it in the terms
uh to give God permission,right?
To to to to dwell within us andand do what God wants to do for
us, which is give us full lives,right?
And as you say, bring his son tous especially.
Um, but um uh I think it's St.
Augustine, we're all quoting St.
Augustine these days, right?
(05:54):
After Saint Pop Leo, but uh I'mpretty sure it's St.
Augustine, I I think it might beeven the office of readings for
um uh uh Easter Saturday or forthe Annunciation, one of them.
Um there's a point where St.
Augustine talks about like Adamand all of humanity waiting for
Mary to say, because there'sthat moment, right, where uh she
(06:15):
says, How can it be done to me?
And and and it'll be by the HolySpirit, and you'll conceive, and
um uh and then but God isn'tgonna force her to she God waits
for Mary's yes, right?
And uh and and Augustine says, Ithink everybody in the whole
world has got just this image,and then once Mary says yes, the
word became flesh uh and dweltamong us.
(06:35):
Um but um uh we're talkingbeforehand, uh those of us who
um you know are open to beingGod's instrument, especially for
healing and the world and someof the challenges that we and
our young people and othersface, um uh to be able to say, I
could use some help, or say,yes, uh I I I I'm struggling.
(06:58):
Um uh uh I'm not sure if thatyes is that's part of uh uh um
uh the the the fiat um uh uh umuh way that you're but maybe
just tell us a little bit aboutyou were there since the
beginning, right?
Uh and and and so maybe justshare a little bit of of the
genesis and and and what camehow it came about.
SPEAKER_04 (07:17):
Absolutely.
And you know, Bishop, one of thethings that you named is that
it's a yes also to recognizingour own need, our own
vulnerability.
And it reminds me back in 2018,actually, the California
Conference of Catholic Bishopsput out a beautiful letter about
just responding to and walkingwith those with mental illness,
and they said we've gottaovercome an us versus them
(07:41):
mentality because mental illnessactually points to our universal
vulnerability.
Now, not everyone's gonna havemental illness, right?
But as people we're vulnerableto disease and distress in this
life of mental, spiritual, andphysical forms, and in order to
really walk with someone elsewho might be struggling from
mental illness, we need toreckon with our own
(08:04):
vulnerability that that we'renot immune to the possibility of
a mental health challenge inthis life, even though it's not
going to manifest like everyoneelse's.
So I think that kind of helpedus as we were discerning what
the program was called to do.
The McGrath Institute for uhChurch Life, which is like our
home within a home at theuniversity, has been um striving
(08:28):
to form ministers within thechurch for over 25 years.
And as we said, okay, we need todo more in this space, we were
recognizing that so many withinour churches nowadays are
suffering from mental illness ormaybe a more transient passing
mental illness.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Uh those who are offering assistance these days
um are gonna be very busy,right?
Because uh and we talked abouteven the experience of
compassion fatigue, right,Chris?
I think you mentioned that.
Um maybe you're uh um uh howlong here at the you know at St.
Elizabeth's again?
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
This is my fourth year.
SPEAKER_00 (09:05):
Right, and um before that at Seton Hall.
Um uh maybe your experience bothclinically uh offering
counseling and in your workhere, especially uh maybe uh
what's the what what's theenvironment out there we hear it
spoken about, but maybe some uhpractical experience of that,
and then also um the theconversations that are happening
(09:27):
in your department and in theuniversity here, and maybe how
it led to uh in inviting um uhBeth to uh to to come and and
and and speak tonight.
Maybe you could just share alittle bit about that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Sure.
I I think in my work over thepast 20 years, uh noticed the
increasing needs of clients.
And along with that, seeing theincreasing struggles of
providers.
Our students too are not immuneto struggles themselves.
So for us, it's in my role,really this balance, making sure
(10:01):
that they're able to serve andprovide services, but also
taking care of themselves.
And one of the things I talk toour students about is the four
years you're with us, we reallywant to train you to be able to
take care of yourself so you canbe sustained in this work long
term.
That it's it's no good if youemerge in four years already
burned out.
(10:21):
Um and the the rate of burnoutin psychologists.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
Do you see that amongst your students currently?
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean they're doing reallydifficult work.
I I'm in awe of the clinicalsettings they're in compared to
when I was a student.
So our students are working with9-11 first responders, they're
working with refugee populationsthat are really under-resourced.
So to do that work while you'restill developing your skills and
(10:48):
to also manage your own lifestressors, uh it's staggering.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
And we and we haven't yet mentioned uh social
media or or or uh screentimeline.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Even without that, just life.
Um and the reality is ourstudents come to us with their
own needs and their own mentalhealth histories, um, myself
included.
So also it's really important, Ithink, for me as a provider and
as an instructor, teacher, andleader to be transparent that we
are ourselves struggling andfiguring things out.
(11:22):
Um, and I think that allows themto be more open and to approach
us about what they need.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
So, Chris, you mentioned the word stress.
So I wonder if that mighttransition us into maybe where
mental health uh illness orhowever you term it, or how do
you term it and where where itoriginates from, what are the
components?
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
Oh, simple question, right?
SPEAKER_04 (12:28):
I'm happy to volley that and then hand it over.
Sure.
You know, one of the things thatas people we try to get to more
simpler answers.
We we want it to be concrete,and and mental illness is not.
And I like to remind folks thatlike it mental illness results
from a coming together ofdifferent factors.
Factors that are genetic, so Iinherit them genetically,
(12:52):
factors that are biological, sojust like unique to my own
biology as me versus you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
That we have all the chemical makeup, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Yeah, we are creatures in that sense.
Um there are also factors, likeas you alluded to, Chris, that
are developmental andenvironmental.
So, like my own developmentaljourney, difficulties in my
family of upbringing are gonnacontribute to a vulnerability to
mental illness, and thenenvironmental factors, and this
(13:21):
isn't just natural environmentlike natural disaster, this is
the role of technology in ourlife.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
The anxious generation, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (13:29):
Jonathan Hayes' work, The Anxious Generation,
which points to a drasticcorrelation that we see between
the rise of social media withthe iPhone and the rise of
health concern.
Yeah, and I I teach classes witha neuroscientist at Notre Dame,
and we talk a lot about the mindand neuroscience.
(13:50):
And she says, you know, we canunderstand from a neurobiology
of the mind that as people weare social creatures and we need
3D interpersonal relationships,and our basic need for that is
just not being met how we liveday to day, given the the
proliferation of technology inour lives.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
Virtual doesn't work, right?
SPEAKER_04 (14:13):
The virtual, it doesn't meet those basic
neurobiological.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Allow us to have meetings and uh you know do
other things, but but on thedeepest human levels where we
have needs, right?
Uh when uh we're created inGod's image, God is a trinity,
right?
A person.
So we're created to be inrelation.
Similar experience, Chris, wouldyou say?
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Yeah, I I think one of the drivers for some of the
mental health concerns we'reseeing with social media is this
uh idea of social comparison.
So when we see these images,when we see people, we're often
comparing up.
So we're looking at people whohave more, or we perceive them
as having more, being better,fitter, more popular, rather
(14:50):
than comparing down.
So we're always comparing up andfalling short.
And if you already have avulnerability, that can trigger
even more difficulties.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Some of the uh images on Instagram, right?
Everybody's uh and that youngpeople are seeing everybody,
well, I gotta be like that.
They're the happiest life in theworld, right?
And looks perfect, and uh, howcome I'm not right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Uh the key is it looks, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Right, right, right.
Um, you're gonna be speakingtonight about uh faith in
science, and uh um we think ofum the church and and the
medical profession or thescientific community.
Uh not the best history inrecent times, but maybe there's
some uh and and coming to mymind is is Bishop Barron, who
(15:31):
I'm a fan of who I think, and hewas part of a committee at the
USCCB uh that presented uh abouttwo years ago uh on some of the
mental health challenges, and hesaid before what was gonna be a
15-minute presentation with somequestion and answers ended up
being an hour or an hour and ahalf of um bishop after bishop
(15:51):
coming up saying that thesechallenges were happening.
And from that conversation, theUSCCB encouraged local bishops
to reach out to educators andmental health professionals and
see, and that's gonna lead toour conference that we're having
that you're gonna be back in NewJersey for uh on the state
level.
Um, but maybe uh a little bitabout what you're gonna give us
a little preview.
(16:12):
This is gonna come out after theuh, but what what you'll be
speaking about tonight in termsof faith and science, and maybe
then Chris, how the universitycame to choose the the topic to
and the to make the invitation.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
Sure.
Absolutely.
Um gosh, uh sometimes as fo aspeople we can get into these
either or patterns of thinking,right?
And it's oh well, mental health,that's something that I just
need to address through mentalhealth resources, seeking out a
therapist.
And others say, well, gosh, ifI'm really a person of faith, I
(16:44):
shouldn't be having thisstruggle.
And they might think, you know,maybe this is resulting because
I'm not praying enough, orbecause of the fallenness of my
nature.
Well, indeed, mental health,mental illness itself exists
because we are fallen creatures.
That's why disease and deathenter into the world.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
That's how God created us, but a little thing
called sin happened, and here weare.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
Exactly.
But my mental illness orsomeone's mental illness, it's
not a direct result orconsequence of their own sin.
We gotta overcome that hurdle.
And and then so too, like theway we can help another who's
living with mental illness, orthe way we can help ourselves,
is actually through thisintegration of mental health
(17:26):
resources that are founded ingood science and through our
faith and through faithcommunities.
So, one of the things I'm gonnatalk about tonight is that we're
relational creatures.
You said, you know, to be madein God's image and likeness is
to be made in the image of andlikeness of God who is love,
Trinitarian one and threepersons, and and we need one
(17:48):
another.
And so we say, certainly, likegood mental health resources,
it's good to seek them out andto and to question it, you know,
are these compatible with myfaith?
Because mental health resources,they're they're varied.
Um but then when we're thinkingabout what can a faith community
do, I think we can offer certainthings that that the mental
(18:08):
health community alone cannot,and that we're called to be a
living, concrete, embodied hope,uh a presence of hope to one
another.
And and sometimes that lookslike just reaching out and and
sharing with someone and saying,you know, I notice it looks like
you might be struggling.
I'm here not to provide a quickfix, a solution, or an answer,
(18:33):
but to be a presence and to justwalk with you as you sort
through the answers, as you trydifferent things out.
Because you've probably beenthinking about this longer than
I have.
You've been thinking abouttrying certain things and why
those things don't work.
So I can walk with you and askwhat that journey's been like,
and ask what else you're maybethinking about trying out,
(18:55):
another resource, another pointof reaching out, and what the
barriers are, you know.
Suffering, I think, just thenature of suffering, especially
mental health suffering, feelsso isolated.
But we believe in God whobecomes man in order to draw
near to us so that we don'tsuffer alone.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
And to tell us we're not alone.
To tell us we're not alone.
SPEAKER_04 (19:16):
So we're called to imitate that presence and how we
draw near to each other.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
And Chris, you um through some uh group therapy,
right?
We were talking before.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Right.
Maybe you want to chime in onthe uh communal aspect or the
sure and I think that even playsinto why Beth is here and her
work of the power of being withpeople that share struggles.
It's healing to look around aroom and realize you are not
alone.
Um that you share these concernsand the respect you have for
(19:49):
other people there, I thinkmental health concerns can
really be isolating and itbecomes perpetuating.
The more you isolate, the harderit is to connect.
So even tonight, to have a roomfull of people come together on
this topic, uh, I think wetalked about social media.
I think coming togetherphysically for something like
this also communicates that thiscommunity cares.
(20:12):
This is a place where we cantalk about struggle, we can talk
about mental health concerns,there's not a stigma.
And what I really like about thework that you're bringing here
is we can't separate thespiritual part of someone from
the rest of them when we talkabout healing.
And as psychologists, and wework a lot with our other
programs here of health serviceprofessions, that we really need
(20:35):
to consider the whole person,and that includes their
spiritual self and really makingthat a focus of treatment.
If that is healing to them, thenthat's where we lean in.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
And my hope is that my sense is I don't have the
data, but um, that on the sideof the mental health community,
the the medical, professional,uh, even psychological side and
the and the profession, hasthere been some movement towards
uh an openness towards theperson as a person of faith?
(21:07):
Because I I think on thechurch's side we have our you
know past, and uh maybe weweren't always encouraging
somebody to speak to a counseloror, you know, respectful of the
the the scientific profession onthat side, but I go even
thinking back to my own trainingin the seminary, and you know,
we were always encouraged tospeak to a counselor that as a
priest, yeah, there are peoplegonna be coming, but you have to
(21:28):
know when you need to refer, andand and that as a parish priest,
you should have some uh mentalhealth professionals that you
you can refer to.
I remember my experience as as aparish priest sometimes saying,
I want to make sure I'm gonnarefer to a counselor that will
not dismiss religion, because II again I think that might be
something from a few decadesago, but uh I don't know if my
(21:48):
but but is there a movement onthe on the scientific medical
side to say that we don't justdismiss religion?
SPEAKER_04 (21:55):
You know, I'm so glad you bring this up, Bishop
Kevin, because there's still apretty wide diversity in the
field, and and Chris, you cankind of chime in too.
I think you've got a great senseof this.
But there there is still askepticism among certain
providers, um, and then amongother providers, they really
recognize no, a person's faithis prayer can help, it is like
(22:19):
an orienting, integrating forcewithin the person, and it would
be um right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
And if you mention it it can't be just prayer for
you know for some uh obviously,and and I think the church and
we're we're trying as I thinkministers to say to our
parishioners, yes, prayer canhelp, but uh God is also
offering help in through theinstruments of of of good
counselor, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I I w accompanied thisamazing leader who's out in the
California area and runs anincredible ministry at her
parish where it's a prayerprayer and faith-sharing support
group for those living withmental illness for family
members with mental illness.
And she said to me, you know, asI was thinking about the own
(23:00):
journey of our family, I hadthis vision of kind of an
anecdotal, a flood is coming.
And she's in a Spanish-speakingcommunity, and somebody comes as
the flood is on the rise in aboat, and they say, Can I offer
any help?
And she goes, Oh no, no.
Dios me sale, you know, likeI've got it, God is here for me.
The floods rising, and thensomebody else comes in a
(23:20):
helicopter.
Hey, can I help you out?
Oh no, no, you know, got God'sgot me.
And then eventually, like thefloods are rising and and she's
consumed, and God says, Youknow, I offered help.
Why didn't you come?
I think they're both in thehelicopter.
I came to realize that there'sthis compatibility with mental
health resources, and certainlyI continue to pray, pray, and
(23:41):
seek out the support of ourfaith community, but also like
it's good to be on the lookoutand to seek out a good mental
health provider who's gonnahonor my faith and provide that
support as well.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
We still have growing to do as a profession.
Uh I I appreciate that we'retrying to grow, and part of that
is you will see counselorsidentifying as a a Christian
counselor or a Catholiccounselor.
So it's not it's not somethingthat you need to bury, of we are
we are not a blank slate.
And for some clients, that'sthat's gonna get them in the
(24:16):
door.
That's gonna start arelationship that's important to
them, and the relationship iseverything.
If there's no therapeuticrelationship, the work really
can't be done.
So if that's important, you canidentify as whatever your your
faith tradition is for clients,but I I think beyond that as a
profession, there is a shiftwhere now we're talking about
(24:38):
liberation psychology and othermovements of we need to we need
to get out of this idea of howwe do therapy and what is best,
and we need to think about fromthe client's perspective what
has been healing for them.
And that includes maybespiritual practices, their faith
community, and that includes usgetting out of our office and
meeting with the faith communityand leaders about what are you
(25:01):
what are you seeing?
How what do you need to knowthat we can help with and
meeting people literally wherethey are.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
So when we talk about mental health illness,
what what are we talking aboutexactly?
Like what are some examples ofsomething people struggle with?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
I I think we're seeing a lot of anxiety and
depression, and we could nitpickabout is it anxiety, is it
depression, because there isalso overlap between those.
I think we're seeing a lot ofcollective trauma.
COVID is recognized as acollective trauma for everyone
who experienced it.
So we're seeing anxiety, we'reseeing depression.
Uh we are seeing our youngpeople in the schools coming up
(25:43):
with attentional challenges, uh,schools not knowing how to
manage that, not having theresources early on, which sets
those children on a trajectoryof maybe not getting the
services they need.
Uh so I think anxiety anddepression, uh, hand in hand
with that substance abuse,sometimes uh people are
self-medicating, and so that'ssomething we look at, and these
(26:05):
can exist together.
So it can be a reallycomplicated clinical picture of
more than one thing going on anda lot of grief.
A lot of grief, and whether wewant to pathologize that or not,
grief is a very human, sharedexperience that can lead to a
lot of difficulty in connectingand functioning.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Sadly, in in some of our immigrant communities, I
think we're gonna be dealingwith um some of the fallout from
you know this recent times thatjust um uh children worried if
their parent is gonna come homeor um some families we've
experienced in other placeshaving to stay inside because
they're afraid to go outside.
(26:48):
Um uh and you know,unfortunately, I think that's
something we're gonna have to bedealing with in the years to
come because it's it's still alived reality for some, and
hopefully things will getbetter.
But um, but uh I I think alsothat um uh uh we say culturally,
right?
Um uh I mean um uh the theeffect of uh our screen time and
(27:12):
and how social media hasaffected what our young people
are experiencing.
Um but also I think uh I know atuh here at St.
East uh you would serve a lot ofum uh children of immigrants or
um uh those who come from, andI'm sure uh you the your your
institute is working withministers from different parts
of the country, right?
And uh and and how to sometimestranslate not only in terms of
(27:35):
language but in terms of livedexperience, um what some of
those um and and living in somany diverse communities here in
our country and ministering inthose um w um uh again uh
looking back to my experience uhto find a a good counselor who
was Spanish speaking was wassometimes a challenge, but uh
maybe you can talk about maybesome of the the students and and
(27:56):
their experiences or and some ofthe um uh uh with faith and
science uh uh in a in amulticultural, multi-ethnic
experience.
SPEAKER_04 (28:06):
Uh yeah, and just thanks for the chance to kind of
attend to each person, because Ithink when we talk in terms of
mental health, mental health andmental illness, we can talk in
terms of general categories, butevery person's experience is
unique.
And one of the things that wesee that happens a lot
culturally nowadays is we tendto identify ourselves with one
(28:30):
characteristic of ourselves.
I see this happen a lot withyoung people where now they
everything's at the fingertipswith their phone, they're
noticing they're having thesesymptoms of anxiousness, and
then all of a sudden it becomesone's identity.
I'm anxious, I'm depressed, Ihave OCD.
And and the invitation there is,well, tell me more about who you
(28:52):
are.
And this is part of yourjourney, this experience, and
we're gonna honor that this is areal suffering, but this isn't
all of you.
And and different communitiesculturally are gonna navigate
that differently.
Um we've had a joy of workingwith some beautifully diverse
communities, especially in thegreater California area.
(29:13):
Um, so many um differentimmigrant communities, and I
think among them there's agreater hesitancy toward
identifying with a diagnosisbecause their cultural identity
is so strong.
That's a beautiful richness thatthey bring to us that we ought
to learn from.
And so, as we've walked withsome of these communities, it's
(29:34):
well, how do we talk about thisexperience of suffering, which
is very hidden, in a languagethat makes sense to you?
And then how do you feel calledto share this with your faith
community?
And so one community that theywere we were walking with, they
said, Well, we tried to do aspeaker series about anxiety and
nobody showed up.
(29:54):
I wonder why.
Yeah.
So they said, um, we justdecided to open up a group at
the parish called Panny Cafe.
Uh-huh.
Bread and coffee, right?
And and to invite folks to comeand then to just open a
conversation around what are yougoing through?
What are some of the strugglesin your life?
And yeah, the folks leading theface sharing group, they weren't
(30:16):
mental health practitioners.
They're not claiming anexpertise that's not their own.
And they know if somebody bringsup something where it's
persistent emotional distressthat's beyond what they could
walk with, they're gonna stillprovide support, but they're
also gonna offer a referral.
They're gonna know the resourcesin their area, and they're gonna
(30:36):
say, keep coming to Panny Cafe.
Right.
But let's also talk about whatelse is out there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
And rather than introduct introducing a topic
and a speaker, say, we want youto feel at home, offer
hospitality, people will respondto that invitation and then see
where the conversation goes.
SPEAKER_05 (30:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
The student body would be fairly diverse.
Would I I I know here at theuniversity, within the
psychology department as well,would you say that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
Absolutely.
So I I like to brag about thediversity within our cohorts and
how many languages they speak.
The last time I checked, I think40 to 45 percent of our students
speak more than one language.
So, how great is that in thisarea when we're looking at
clinical work they can do ofgoing into Newark, going into
Patterson, going intocommunities where we need
(31:21):
someone who speaks Spanish toadminister assessments.
The comfort that comes in beingable to speak in your your your
native language and to usefeeling words that really
resonate with you.
It's been really powerful forour students.
At the same time, the needs insome of those communities are so
great.
I think last year for us it wasespecially difficult to have
(31:43):
students come in and talk abouttheir clinical work and say, my
client's getting deported.
My client's father was deportedyesterday.
Another one they can't come in,they're doing it remotely.
Um how do you stay connected toyour client through this?
How do you manage those feelingsof powerlessness that you can't
prevent a deportation?
(32:03):
Um, often feeling like it's notenough simply to be present with
someone, but as we're talkingabout tonight, the power of
relationship, of bringing themback to you're you're creating
that relationship where they dohave somebody has been really
important.
So our students are very diverseand drawn to the margins of
working with people on themargins.
We have a lot of firstgeneration students.
(32:26):
Um, we have a lot of studentswho themselves need to use
services, and that's part of myjob is to make sure their needs
are met so that they can meetthe needs of their clients.
It can be exhausting.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
But we're happy they found a home here at St.
Eves to receive an educationthat uh will uh encourage and
equip them to go back into thecommunities uh that they come
from to uh to to offer uh umhelp.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
And that's their goal, which is great when they
come in.
I want to go back and serve inmy community.
SPEAKER_04 (32:59):
You know, as you're reflecting, Chris, it just
strikes me the reality ofsuffering.
And we've just entered intoLent, and so we're kind of I
think of Lent as as a reminderthat we're not going through it
alone, that we don't sufferalone.
And we talked a little bitbefore about compassion fatigue.
Um, some of the providers, whatis compassion fatigue?
(33:21):
I kind of wonder about thatcompassion is a virtue.
Can you actually fatigue avirtue?
But we won't get into thattoday.
That's another problem.
Like burnout, this feeling likeI can't keep doing this helping
work.
And I witness, like we walk witha number of folks who are
volunteers at their parish,part-time staff, full-time
staff, some priests and deacons,and they just feel worn out.
(33:43):
And it kind of brings me tograpple with how do we continue
to walk with folks who aresuffering when we can't fix it,
and even w if when you're atherapist, like somebody's may
not get all better.
Anxiety might endure, depressionmight endure.
And so I think it takes us backto like what is our hope amidst
(34:04):
suffering if it doesn't mean thesuffering is gonna go away
entirely.
And I just to offer anotherlittle personal anecdote,
another community that I waswalking with, a beautifully
vibrant faith community ofmostly Filipino immigrants, and
they have a great devotionrelated to the Feast of the
Exaltation of the Cross.
(34:25):
Um, and we were out that day onthe Feast of the Exaltation to
offer a mental health kind ofworkshop and retreat.
And one of the things that Iwitnessed in the men and women
there was after they've gonehome from a day of walking with
someone, they talk about justcoming to prayer and continuing
to bring to God the suffering ofwhoever they've been walking
(34:48):
with that day.
Because it's a heavy burden tocarry and it's gonna crush us.
We can't carry it.
But it's this continual act ofbringing it to Christ as we're
seeking to be Christ and toreceive Christ in the other.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Both the Filipino community and the Latino
community, um uh, yes, theexaltation of the cross, and for
so many that's um preparing allthrough Lent uh for the Via
Crucis, right?
For the uh and um and and thatopportunity, faith and science,
and uh Jesus came to heal us,yes, from sin, but also um uh to
(35:26):
give us healing and peace thatall yes, only he can give with
the help of instruments that Godcan work through.
Uh but Lent and the station ofthe cross and the reflection on
his passion can remind us thatit is a long road and it it can
be a painful road.
Um but um but as people offaith, we believing that Good
(35:50):
Friday doesn't end isn't theend, but it but it uh God
transforms that that thatsuffering and death even into
new life and um and uh and thatum and you know being blessed to
work with those who you knowstruggle with depression or go
through hard times and um whenwe're have that experience of uh
(36:12):
having someone come back intothe light, you know, uh have
that experience of healing anduh and and to see um that um we
hope is there, right?
And uh you think of people inthe um uh um 12-step program or
or have gone through thatexperience um and and how um uh
(36:34):
um that accompaniment and andand walking the journey
together, yes, it's gonna bepainful, yes, it might not be
fully healed, but but but buthealing is is is possible,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (36:48):
Got a question for you, but um throw something out
there.
So let's say from theperspective of if I am dealing
with a mental health illness, isis it my fault?
Is it is it God's fault?
You know, is it how do Ireconcile that as a Catholic?
You know, where does that wheredoes that lie?
SPEAKER_04 (37:08):
Yeah, thanks for asking that question.
I'd like to answer it um bysharing the story of one of my
really close friends uh who Ishare her story with permission.
Amazing woman.
I look up to her profoundly.
We got to be friends about fiveyears ago.
By that time, she'd alreadyreceived a diagnosis of
schizophrenia and um bipolardisorder.
(37:32):
Um and her journey, she is awoman of great faith, uh,
brilliant, uh, was pursuing herPhD in her 20s when she came
down with schizophrenia.
And that's pretty common thatyou'd experience an um episode
of psychosis for the first timein your 20s, and then in and
through that, maybe learn of adiagnosis.
And um it was a rough road, asit so often is with serious
(37:56):
diagnoses like that, being inand out of psychiatric
hospitals, working to find theright medication, working to
stick to that medicationregimen.
And she shared, you know, withwith great care, um, like there
were so many times where shequestioned the faith.
And she said, God, are youpunishing me?
God, are you really there?
How could you allow thissuffering?
(38:18):
And there were times when likethe faith community didn't show
up for her.
She tells me about asking for aphone book in the psych hospital
and calling various parishesaround to see if a priest could
come visit her before finallysomebody was able to come and
visit.
Um she tells me about reachingout to a faith community then
once she was out ofhospitalization, trying to find,
(38:39):
you know, can I what's availablehere?
Can I talk to someone?
Thanks be to God.
She's found a home and and she'svery active in her faith
community currently.
They've embraced her.
She's part of faith sharinggroups.
Um, she offers some actuallyteaching there at the parish as
well.
And she said to me a few monthsago, I'll tear up when saying
(39:02):
it, she said, Beth, I wouldn'tgo back and change anything
about what's happened.
She said, God's been with methrough it all.
And she said, I have faith, eventhough I still continue to doubt
and question our Lord.
Um it's one of the greatestblessings in my life that I can
call her my friend.
And she reveals to me that,like, if you're someone out
(39:25):
there who's living with mentalillness, it's not your fault.
God is not punishing you.
Illness exists because of thereality of evil in the world and
the fall, but it's not aparticular punishment, it's not
a particular evil that you'vedone.
Um, and your need reveals to uslike we need to show up for you.
We need to live out what St.
Paul says in the letter to theCorinthians that when one part
(39:48):
of the body suffers, all suffer.
But when one part flourishes,all flourish with it.
Like we are one body, but thatmeans we need to show up for
each other.
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
Thank you for that.
It's great.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
I think there's parallels here between faith and
and the psychology and thescience of it sounds like what
you're talking about is findingmeaning or forging meaning, and
that's a very powerful thing wedo in in psychology and
counseling is helping peoplefind that meaning and that hope.
(40:20):
And I I think we can cometogether in that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
I'm I'm not sure maybe more in philosophy than
psychology, but are collegestudents still reading Victor
Frankel's uh.
SPEAKER_04 (40:28):
I was thinking about Frankel as we were talking.
I don't know if there if enoughof them are reading it.
We need a resurgence.
SPEAKER_00 (40:35):
We don't judge the classics, they judge us, right?
They would just slip them in inthe um uh a person can get
through any how if they have asufficient why, right?
Um uh yeah, um so um uh sograteful for your your being
with us and um and taking thetime and uh and and offering the
(40:59):
a message of hope and uh I thinkalso witnessing to the value of
of education and Catholiceducation, uh uh Notre Dame, St.
Elizabeth's uh that uh are uhare helping the church to engage
with the scientific communityand supporting ministers um uh
in that formation that you'reoffering uh in the fiat program.
(41:20):
Uh so um um maybe just uh theremight be, I don't think we have
too many high school students asuh but you never know as our as
our guests, but we have theirparents and grandparents
sometimes.
Um uh but whether it be to uh afamily who is someone struggling
with mental illness, or ifthere's someone out there even
who's listening with mentalillness, maybe a message that
(41:42):
you might have, but also maybeum um uh why a young person
might consider the field of umuh mental health um uh service.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
I I I think for me, I speaking from my own
experience, I feel like it's acalling.
And so listening, listening towhere you're called, uh there
are many different ways toserve.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
God has a plan for each of us, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
So so listening to that, and I think for young
people and their families, don'tplease don't give up.
Uh the first contact maybenobody answers.
Um, but you will find someone,and that connection will lead to
good things and um feelingbetter.
Uh, that the right support, umyou will feel more alive again,
(42:30):
and um that there are a lot ofpeople who want to help.
So know that you are thought ofand cared for and prayed for.
SPEAKER_04 (42:38):
And Chris, if I can just add to that, thank you.
You know, for families um whohave a child or someone in their
life with mental illness, likeyou're not alone.
Um, the journey with mentalillness can be profoundly
isolating, not just for theperson with mental illness, but
for their loved ones.
(42:58):
Um, so many well-meaning familymembers and friends are gonna
respond with advice andjudgment.
Um and and this can be reallypainful and further isolating.
So I ask you to have the courageto keep reaching out.
The National Alliance on MentalIllness, NAMI, has local
(43:18):
chapters.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
National Alliance on Mental Illness.
SPEAKER_04 (43:21):
Yes, they have family-to-family support groups
as well as peer support groups,often in local communities or
online.
They're a good resource.
Reach out to your parish.
Tell someone that you'restruggling.
Um even if it's just going to afaith-sharing group where you're
not talking about anythingthat's going on, keep trying to
(43:41):
be around community because thesymptoms tend to be so
isolating, but unfortunatelythat just makes it worse.
So keep reaching out, keepsharing, keep having courage.
Um, ask about, explore whatresources might be available,
and tease out, you know, arethese resources in mental health
that honor me as a person offaith?
SPEAKER_00 (44:03):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Uh speaking of those resourceshere in our diocese two weeks
from tonight, I think umThursday, March 5th, we'll Jay
will be sharing the informationand uh uh um Jay, you're happy
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:15):
Yeah, so um well first, so Beth will be back,
right?
In uh Saturday, I believe that.
Back to New Jersey in Piscatawayfor a very important uh
conference that's coming up, NewJersey Catholic Mental Health
Conference, from isolation tobelonging, mental health in the
Catholic Church.
Uh, this is a statewidegathering to strengthen
understanding, compassion, andpastoral support for those
(44:37):
facing mental health struggles.
Again, Saturday, May 2nd, 8:30.
We'll have info in the shownotes.
Bishop John P.
Dolan from the Diocese ofPhoenix will be on hand, as well
as Beth, Cardinal Joseph Tobin,Archdiocese of Newark, and a
couple others.
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
Uh all five dioceses on the eparchy um are um
collaborating to sponsor theconference.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
Um, and then more locally on Thursday, March 5th,
do you have those Mental HealthMatters Workshop and overview
for supporting well-being?
And this will be 6 30 to 8 p.m.
Thursday, March 5th at St.
Mary's Church in Pompton Lake.
So check out the show.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
I think that's in conjunction with the New Jersey
Mental Health Association,right?
We can put more information onthe show notes.
But uh absolutely talk um uh uha good way to begin Lent, right?
Uh is uh uh a time that we haveuh uh the program for the this
celebrating the sacrament ofreconciliation, uh which I'll
(45:39):
put a little plug in for aswell, uh uh a sacrament of
healing.
Not everyone sees confession asa sacrament of healing, but I
think this to the sacrament'smaking a comeback and uh and and
that we see it not as uh the no,it's it's not easy for any of us
to say ask for forgiveness, butthe healing that comes with
receiving that forgiveness.
Um uh so uh Mondays uh in all ofour parishes from 7 to 8:30, the
(46:01):
Sacrament of Reconciliation willbe available, and it's part of
the Welcome Home to Healingprogram.
So that's one way the churchtries to offer healing, but
there are many ways that um andresources available.
So thanks so much for Beth forbeing with us and Chris and to
the university for hostingtonight and uh for allowing us
to have this opportunity.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (46:21):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
And thank you all for joining us.
Please subscribe, comment, andleave a positive rating.
Get to know us better byfollowing Bishop Kevin on
Instagram and beyond the beaconon social media.
Read the bishop's weekly columnon beaconnj.org.
Get in touch if you have aquestion for the bishop or a
podcast topic idea and discoverour other podcasts.
(46:44):
See you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
Thank you, everybody.
Have a blessed land.
Thanks so much for being withus.
Thanks.
Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin
Sweeney, a podcast of theDiocese of Patterson, New
Jersey.
Join us for conversations aboutour Catholic faith, and
together, let's strive to live alife of faith, hope, and love.
We're so glad you can join us.
With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeneyand our guests.
Bishop, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm good, Jay.
How are you?
SPEAKER_02 (00:28):
I'm doing well, thanks.
Where the heck are we?
SPEAKER_00 (00:32):
Grateful to the uh St.
Elizabeth's University here inConvent Station, uh, who's
hosting a big event tonight thatwe'll hear about and um uh happy
to be back in this studentwonderful studio that they have
and uh and to be with ourguests, who I think Jay is gonna
introduce.
SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
Yeah, so starting all the way down at the end of
the table is Chris Slipperini uhand to her left is Beth Lapsey.
Um they are both uh experts inthe area of mental health, so
we're gonna have a conversation.
Uh we're gonna explore theconnection between faith, mental
health, and science.
I'll do the longer background inin a little while here, but why
(01:09):
don't we uh start start withprayer?
Start with a prayer, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Um well as as we begun uh we're taping we're
recording this the day after AshWednesday as we've entered now
into the holy season of Lent andwe look to God's um grace and
and blessings and uh and also umpray for healing uh for all in
need of healing and and forthose in ministry, um whether it
(01:36):
be in as a priest or religiousor as a teacher or as a
counselor, um uh we know there'sa need, uh, especially in our
current context and culture andum for young people, for
families, for couples, we might,as we pray, um remember those
that might be struggling at thistime and uh let them know that
(01:58):
they're not alone and um andthat that help is available so
we can place ourselves in God'spresence in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of theHoly Spirit.
Amen.
And let us ask Jesus to bless uswith the gifts and help of the
Holy Spirit as we seek to knowthe Father's will and do the
Father's will.
(02:18):
And as we ask the gifts andguidance of the Holy Spirit, we
also ask the help andintercession of Mary, our
blessed mother, as we pray.
Hail Mary, full of grace, theLord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,and blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, prayfor us sinners, now and at the
(02:40):
hour of our death.
Amen.
Our Lady's seat of wisdom,Mother of the Church, pray for
us.
St.
Elizabeth Ann Seton, pray forus.
All holy men and women, pray forus in the name of the Father and
of the Son, and of the HolySpirit.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Okay.
Thanks, Bishop.
So uh Yeah, so our topic fortoday is we are so we're facing
a mental health crisis withrising distress and illness,
especially among the youth.
So in this episode, like I said,we're going to explore the
connection between faith, mentalhealth, and science and reflect
on what is driving this epidemicand how we can support those
(03:14):
affected.
So again, our so Beth BethLapsey to your right, Bishop, is
program director of the Fiatprogram.
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
Just drive uh off the plane, right for the right.
SPEAKER_05 (03:25):
Great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
You made it.
She's the uh program directorfor the Fiat program of faith
and mental health at the McGrathInstitute for Church Life at the
University of Notre Dame inIndiana.
She's in town to give a lecturetonight here at St.
Elizabeth University.
This the lecture explores howfaith and science together
illuminate the causes of mentalillness and guide us in caring
(03:46):
for ourselves and others.
Chris Lipperini, Dr.
Lipperini, is assistantprofessor of psychology and
doctoral program director hereat St.
Elizabeth University.
She's been in this role since2022.
Prior to that, she spent 15years teaching at Seton Hall
University in the Department ofProfessional Psychology and
Family Therapy.
(04:07):
During her time there, shedeveloped the relationships with
several area nonprofits so thatstudents could engage in social
justice work with underservedpopulations.
She has a clinical background inadolescent and young adult
mental health.
So there you have it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Welcome.
Thank you.
Thanks for being with us.
We were talking a little bitbefore, and I forgot to ask, but
we were reminded by Jay, I don'twant to put you on the spot, but
uh four years of the programFiat.
Um do you know how they cameabout choosing the name Fiat?
SPEAKER_04 (04:38):
Well, thanks be to God, I do, Bishop.
Um really Our Lady put it on ourheart, and we were discerning at
the McGrath Institute becausethe Lord had really invited us
to do more by way of support forthe church in the area of mental
health.
And Notre Dame, our Lady'sUniversity, uh, it it came upon
(04:59):
our heart that it was meant tobe called fiat.
So, Gospel of Luke, when theangel Gabriel comes to Mary and
says that she's to conceive andbear a son who is Christ, um,
she proclaims, May it be doneunto me according to your will.
Um, fiat, Mihi, is the Latin.
And as we were pondering, whyare we meant to be called fiat?
(05:20):
I think the Lord revealed it'seach one of us is called to echo
Mary, Mary's fiat.
Each one of us is called to sayyes, to receive the body of
Christ, and that's our neighborhere on earth.
SPEAKER_00 (05:34):
Right, right.
And I think uh Mother Teresamight have put it in the terms
uh to give God permission,right?
To to to to dwell within us andand do what God wants to do for
us, which is give us full lives,right?
And as you say, bring his son tous especially.
Um, but um uh I think it's St.
Augustine, we're all quoting St.
Augustine these days, right?
(05:54):
After Saint Pop Leo, but uh I'mpretty sure it's St.
Augustine, I I think it might beeven the office of readings for
um uh uh Easter Saturday or forthe Annunciation, one of them.
Um there's a point where St.
Augustine talks about like Adamand all of humanity waiting for
Mary to say, because there'sthat moment, right, where uh she
(06:15):
says, How can it be done to me?
And and and it'll be by the HolySpirit, and you'll conceive, and
um uh and then but God isn'tgonna force her to she God waits
for Mary's yes, right?
And uh and and Augustine says, Ithink everybody in the whole
world has got just this image,and then once Mary says yes, the
word became flesh uh and dweltamong us.
(06:35):
Um but um uh we're talkingbeforehand, uh those of us who
um you know are open to beingGod's instrument, especially for
healing and the world and someof the challenges that we and
our young people and othersface, um uh to be able to say, I
could use some help, or say,yes, uh I I I I'm struggling.
(06:58):
Um uh uh I'm not sure if thatyes is that's part of uh uh um
uh the the the fiat um uh uh umuh way that you're but maybe
just tell us a little bit aboutyou were there since the
beginning, right?
Uh and and and so maybe justshare a little bit of of the
genesis and and and what camehow it came about.
SPEAKER_04 (07:17):
Absolutely.
And you know, Bishop, one of thethings that you named is that
it's a yes also to recognizingour own need, our own
vulnerability.
And it reminds me back in 2018,actually, the California
Conference of Catholic Bishopsput out a beautiful letter about
just responding to and walkingwith those with mental illness,
and they said we've gottaovercome an us versus them
(07:41):
mentality because mental illnessactually points to our universal
vulnerability.
Now, not everyone's gonna havemental illness, right?
But as people we're vulnerableto disease and distress in this
life of mental, spiritual, andphysical forms, and in order to
really walk with someone elsewho might be struggling from
mental illness, we need toreckon with our own
(08:04):
vulnerability that that we'renot immune to the possibility of
a mental health challenge inthis life, even though it's not
going to manifest like everyoneelse's.
So I think that kind of helpedus as we were discerning what
the program was called to do.
The McGrath Institute for uhChurch Life, which is like our
home within a home at theuniversity, has been um striving
(08:28):
to form ministers within thechurch for over 25 years.
And as we said, okay, we need todo more in this space, we were
recognizing that so many withinour churches nowadays are
suffering from mental illness ormaybe a more transient passing
mental illness.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Uh those who are offering assistance these days
um are gonna be very busy,right?
Because uh and we talked abouteven the experience of
compassion fatigue, right,Chris?
I think you mentioned that.
Um maybe you're uh um uh howlong here at the you know at St.
Elizabeth's again?
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
This is my fourth year.
SPEAKER_00 (09:05):
Right, and um before that at Seton Hall.
Um uh maybe your experience bothclinically uh offering
counseling and in your workhere, especially uh maybe uh
what's the what what's theenvironment out there we hear it
spoken about, but maybe some uhpractical experience of that,
and then also um the theconversations that are happening
(09:27):
in your department and in theuniversity here, and maybe how
it led to uh in inviting um uhBeth to uh to to come and and
and and speak tonight.
Maybe you could just share alittle bit about that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
Sure.
I I think in my work over thepast 20 years, uh noticed the
increasing needs of clients.
And along with that, seeing theincreasing struggles of
providers.
Our students too are not immuneto struggles themselves.
So for us, it's in my role,really this balance, making sure
(10:01):
that they're able to serve andprovide services, but also
taking care of themselves.
And one of the things I talk toour students about is the four
years you're with us, we reallywant to train you to be able to
take care of yourself so you canbe sustained in this work long
term.
That it's it's no good if youemerge in four years already
burned out.
(10:21):
Um and the the rate of burnoutin psychologists.
SPEAKER_00 (10:25):
Do you see that amongst your students currently?
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah.
So I mean they're doing reallydifficult work.
I I'm in awe of the clinicalsettings they're in compared to
when I was a student.
So our students are working with9-11 first responders, they're
working with refugee populationsthat are really under-resourced.
So to do that work while you'restill developing your skills and
(10:48):
to also manage your own lifestressors, uh it's staggering.
SPEAKER_00 (10:55):
And we and we haven't yet mentioned uh social
media or or or uh screentimeline.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Even without that, just life.
Um and the reality is ourstudents come to us with their
own needs and their own mentalhealth histories, um, myself
included.
So also it's really important, Ithink, for me as a provider and
as an instructor, teacher, andleader to be transparent that we
are ourselves struggling andfiguring things out.
(11:22):
Um, and I think that allows themto be more open and to approach
us about what they need.
SPEAKER_02 (12:09):
So, Chris, you mentioned the word stress.
So I wonder if that mighttransition us into maybe where
mental health uh illness orhowever you term it, or how do
you term it and where where itoriginates from, what are the
components?
SPEAKER_01 (12:25):
Oh, simple question, right?
SPEAKER_04 (12:28):
I'm happy to volley that and then hand it over.
Sure.
You know, one of the things thatas people we try to get to more
simpler answers.
We we want it to be concrete,and and mental illness is not.
And I like to remind folks thatlike it mental illness results
from a coming together ofdifferent factors.
Factors that are genetic, so Iinherit them genetically,
(12:52):
factors that are biological, sojust like unique to my own
biology as me versus you.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
That we have all the chemical makeup, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (13:00):
Yeah, we are creatures in that sense.
Um there are also factors, likeas you alluded to, Chris, that
are developmental andenvironmental.
So, like my own developmentaljourney, difficulties in my
family of upbringing are gonnacontribute to a vulnerability to
mental illness, and thenenvironmental factors, and this
(13:21):
isn't just natural environmentlike natural disaster, this is
the role of technology in ourlife.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
The anxious generation, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04 (13:29):
Jonathan Hayes' work, The Anxious Generation,
which points to a drasticcorrelation that we see between
the rise of social media withthe iPhone and the rise of
health concern.
Yeah, and I I teach classes witha neuroscientist at Notre Dame,
and we talk a lot about the mindand neuroscience.
(13:50):
And she says, you know, we canunderstand from a neurobiology
of the mind that as people weare social creatures and we need
3D interpersonal relationships,and our basic need for that is
just not being met how we liveday to day, given the the
proliferation of technology inour lives.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
Virtual doesn't work, right?
SPEAKER_04 (14:13):
The virtual, it doesn't meet those basic
neurobiological.
SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
Allow us to have meetings and uh you know do
other things, but but on thedeepest human levels where we
have needs, right?
Uh when uh we're created inGod's image, God is a trinity,
right?
A person.
So we're created to be inrelation.
Similar experience, Chris, wouldyou say?
SPEAKER_01 (14:29):
Yeah, I I think one of the drivers for some of the
mental health concerns we'reseeing with social media is this
uh idea of social comparison.
So when we see these images,when we see people, we're often
comparing up.
So we're looking at people whohave more, or we perceive them
as having more, being better,fitter, more popular, rather
(14:50):
than comparing down.
So we're always comparing up andfalling short.
And if you already have avulnerability, that can trigger
even more difficulties.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Some of the uh images on Instagram, right?
Everybody's uh and that youngpeople are seeing everybody,
well, I gotta be like that.
They're the happiest life in theworld, right?
And looks perfect, and uh, howcome I'm not right?
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
Uh the key is it looks, right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Right, right, right.
Um, you're gonna be speakingtonight about uh faith in
science, and uh um we think ofum the church and and the
medical profession or thescientific community.
Uh not the best history inrecent times, but maybe there's
some uh and and coming to mymind is is Bishop Barron, who
(15:31):
I'm a fan of who I think, and hewas part of a committee at the
USCCB uh that presented uh abouttwo years ago uh on some of the
mental health challenges, and hesaid before what was gonna be a
15-minute presentation with somequestion and answers ended up
being an hour or an hour and ahalf of um bishop after bishop
(15:51):
coming up saying that thesechallenges were happening.
And from that conversation, theUSCCB encouraged local bishops
to reach out to educators andmental health professionals and
see, and that's gonna lead toour conference that we're having
that you're gonna be back in NewJersey for uh on the state
level.
Um, but maybe uh a little bitabout what you're gonna give us
a little preview.
(16:12):
This is gonna come out after theuh, but what what you'll be
speaking about tonight in termsof faith and science, and maybe
then Chris, how the universitycame to choose the the topic to
and the to make the invitation.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
Sure.
Absolutely.
Um gosh, uh sometimes as fo aspeople we can get into these
either or patterns of thinking,right?
And it's oh well, mental health,that's something that I just
need to address through mentalhealth resources, seeking out a
therapist.
And others say, well, gosh, ifI'm really a person of faith, I
(16:44):
shouldn't be having thisstruggle.
And they might think, you know,maybe this is resulting because
I'm not praying enough, orbecause of the fallenness of my
nature.
Well, indeed, mental health,mental illness itself exists
because we are fallen creatures.
That's why disease and deathenter into the world.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
That's how God created us, but a little thing
called sin happened, and here weare.
SPEAKER_04 (17:05):
Exactly.
But my mental illness orsomeone's mental illness, it's
not a direct result orconsequence of their own sin.
We gotta overcome that hurdle.
And and then so too, like theway we can help another who's
living with mental illness, orthe way we can help ourselves,
is actually through thisintegration of mental health
(17:26):
resources that are founded ingood science and through our
faith and through faithcommunities.
So, one of the things I'm gonnatalk about tonight is that we're
relational creatures.
You said, you know, to be madein God's image and likeness is
to be made in the image of andlikeness of God who is love,
Trinitarian one and threepersons, and and we need one
(17:48):
another.
And so we say, certainly, likegood mental health resources,
it's good to seek them out andto and to question it, you know,
are these compatible with myfaith?
Because mental health resources,they're they're varied.
Um but then when we're thinkingabout what can a faith community
do, I think we can offer certainthings that that the mental
(18:08):
health community alone cannot,and that we're called to be a
living, concrete, embodied hope,uh a presence of hope to one
another.
And and sometimes that lookslike just reaching out and and
sharing with someone and saying,you know, I notice it looks like
you might be struggling.
I'm here not to provide a quickfix, a solution, or an answer,
(18:33):
but to be a presence and to justwalk with you as you sort
through the answers, as you trydifferent things out.
Because you've probably beenthinking about this longer than
I have.
You've been thinking abouttrying certain things and why
those things don't work.
So I can walk with you and askwhat that journey's been like,
and ask what else you're maybethinking about trying out,
(18:55):
another resource, another pointof reaching out, and what the
barriers are, you know.
Suffering, I think, just thenature of suffering, especially
mental health suffering, feelsso isolated.
But we believe in God whobecomes man in order to draw
near to us so that we don'tsuffer alone.
SPEAKER_00 (19:13):
And to tell us we're not alone.
To tell us we're not alone.
SPEAKER_04 (19:16):
So we're called to imitate that presence and how we
draw near to each other.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
And Chris, you um through some uh group therapy,
right?
We were talking before.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Right.
Maybe you want to chime in onthe uh communal aspect or the
sure and I think that even playsinto why Beth is here and her
work of the power of being withpeople that share struggles.
It's healing to look around aroom and realize you are not
alone.
Um that you share these concernsand the respect you have for
(19:49):
other people there, I thinkmental health concerns can
really be isolating and itbecomes perpetuating.
The more you isolate, the harderit is to connect.
So even tonight, to have a roomfull of people come together on
this topic, uh, I think wetalked about social media.
I think coming togetherphysically for something like
this also communicates that thiscommunity cares.
(20:12):
This is a place where we cantalk about struggle, we can talk
about mental health concerns,there's not a stigma.
And what I really like about thework that you're bringing here
is we can't separate thespiritual part of someone from
the rest of them when we talkabout healing.
And as psychologists, and wework a lot with our other
programs here of health serviceprofessions, that we really need
(20:35):
to consider the whole person,and that includes their
spiritual self and really makingthat a focus of treatment.
If that is healing to them, thenthat's where we lean in.
SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
And my hope is that my sense is I don't have the
data, but um, that on the sideof the mental health community,
the the medical, professional,uh, even psychological side and
the and the profession, hasthere been some movement towards
uh an openness towards theperson as a person of faith?
(21:07):
Because I I think on thechurch's side we have our you
know past, and uh maybe weweren't always encouraging
somebody to speak to a counseloror, you know, respectful of the
the the scientific profession onthat side, but I go even
thinking back to my own trainingin the seminary, and you know,
we were always encouraged tospeak to a counselor that as a
priest, yeah, there are peoplegonna be coming, but you have to
(21:28):
know when you need to refer, andand and that as a parish priest,
you should have some uh mentalhealth professionals that you
you can refer to.
I remember my experience as as aparish priest sometimes saying,
I want to make sure I'm gonnarefer to a counselor that will
not dismiss religion, because II again I think that might be
something from a few decadesago, but uh I don't know if my
(21:48):
but but is there a movement onthe on the scientific medical
side to say that we don't justdismiss religion?
SPEAKER_04 (21:55):
You know, I'm so glad you bring this up, Bishop
Kevin, because there's still apretty wide diversity in the
field, and and Chris, you cankind of chime in too.
I think you've got a great senseof this.
But there there is still askepticism among certain
providers, um, and then amongother providers, they really
recognize no, a person's faithis prayer can help, it is like
(22:19):
an orienting, integrating forcewithin the person, and it would
be um right.
SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
And if you mention it it can't be just prayer for
you know for some uh obviously,and and I think the church and
we're we're trying as I thinkministers to say to our
parishioners, yes, prayer canhelp, but uh God is also
offering help in through theinstruments of of of good
counselor, right?
SPEAKER_04 (22:39):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I I w accompanied thisamazing leader who's out in the
California area and runs anincredible ministry at her
parish where it's a prayerprayer and faith-sharing support
group for those living withmental illness for family
members with mental illness.
And she said to me, you know, asI was thinking about the own
(23:00):
journey of our family, I hadthis vision of kind of an
anecdotal, a flood is coming.
And she's in a Spanish-speakingcommunity, and somebody comes as
the flood is on the rise in aboat, and they say, Can I offer
any help?
And she goes, Oh no, no.
Dios me sale, you know, likeI've got it, God is here for me.
The floods rising, and thensomebody else comes in a
(23:20):
helicopter.
Hey, can I help you out?
Oh no, no, you know, got God'sgot me.
And then eventually, like thefloods are rising and and she's
consumed, and God says, Youknow, I offered help.
Why didn't you come?
I think they're both in thehelicopter.
I came to realize that there'sthis compatibility with mental
health resources, and certainlyI continue to pray, pray, and
(23:41):
seek out the support of ourfaith community, but also like
it's good to be on the lookoutand to seek out a good mental
health provider who's gonnahonor my faith and provide that
support as well.
SPEAKER_01 (23:53):
We still have growing to do as a profession.
Uh I I appreciate that we'retrying to grow, and part of that
is you will see counselorsidentifying as a a Christian
counselor or a Catholiccounselor.
So it's not it's not somethingthat you need to bury, of we are
we are not a blank slate.
And for some clients, that'sthat's gonna get them in the
(24:16):
door.
That's gonna start arelationship that's important to
them, and the relationship iseverything.
If there's no therapeuticrelationship, the work really
can't be done.
So if that's important, you canidentify as whatever your your
faith tradition is for clients,but I I think beyond that as a
profession, there is a shiftwhere now we're talking about
(24:38):
liberation psychology and othermovements of we need to we need
to get out of this idea of howwe do therapy and what is best,
and we need to think about fromthe client's perspective what
has been healing for them.
And that includes maybespiritual practices, their faith
community, and that includes usgetting out of our office and
meeting with the faith communityand leaders about what are you
(25:01):
what are you seeing?
How what do you need to knowthat we can help with and
meeting people literally wherethey are.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
So when we talk about mental health illness,
what what are we talking aboutexactly?
Like what are some examples ofsomething people struggle with?
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
I I think we're seeing a lot of anxiety and
depression, and we could nitpickabout is it anxiety, is it
depression, because there isalso overlap between those.
I think we're seeing a lot ofcollective trauma.
COVID is recognized as acollective trauma for everyone
who experienced it.
So we're seeing anxiety, we'reseeing depression.
Uh we are seeing our youngpeople in the schools coming up
(25:43):
with attentional challenges, uh,schools not knowing how to
manage that, not having theresources early on, which sets
those children on a trajectoryof maybe not getting the
services they need.
Uh so I think anxiety anddepression, uh, hand in hand
with that substance abuse,sometimes uh people are
self-medicating, and so that'ssomething we look at, and these
(26:05):
can exist together.
So it can be a reallycomplicated clinical picture of
more than one thing going on anda lot of grief.
A lot of grief, and whether wewant to pathologize that or not,
grief is a very human, sharedexperience that can lead to a
lot of difficulty in connectingand functioning.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Sadly, in in some of our immigrant communities, I
think we're gonna be dealingwith um some of the fallout from
you know this recent times thatjust um uh children worried if
their parent is gonna come homeor um some families we've
experienced in other placeshaving to stay inside because
they're afraid to go outside.
(26:48):
Um uh and you know,unfortunately, I think that's
something we're gonna have to bedealing with in the years to
come because it's it's still alived reality for some, and
hopefully things will getbetter.
But um, but uh I I think alsothat um uh uh we say culturally,
right?
Um uh I mean um uh the theeffect of uh our screen time and
(27:12):
and how social media hasaffected what our young people
are experiencing.
Um but also I think uh I know atuh here at St.
East uh you would serve a lot ofum uh children of immigrants or
um uh those who come from, andI'm sure uh you the your your
institute is working withministers from different parts
of the country, right?
And uh and and how to sometimestranslate not only in terms of
(27:35):
language but in terms of livedexperience, um what some of
those um and and living in somany diverse communities here in
our country and ministering inthose um w um uh again uh
looking back to my experience uhto find a a good counselor who
was Spanish speaking was wassometimes a challenge, but uh
maybe you can talk about maybesome of the the students and and
(27:56):
their experiences or and some ofthe um uh uh with faith and
science uh uh in a in amulticultural, multi-ethnic
experience.
SPEAKER_04 (28:06):
Uh yeah, and just thanks for the chance to kind of
attend to each person, because Ithink when we talk in terms of
mental health, mental health andmental illness, we can talk in
terms of general categories, butevery person's experience is
unique.
And one of the things that wesee that happens a lot
culturally nowadays is we tendto identify ourselves with one
(28:30):
characteristic of ourselves.
I see this happen a lot withyoung people where now they
everything's at the fingertipswith their phone, they're
noticing they're having thesesymptoms of anxiousness, and
then all of a sudden it becomesone's identity.
I'm anxious, I'm depressed, Ihave OCD.
And and the invitation there is,well, tell me more about who you
(28:52):
are.
And this is part of yourjourney, this experience, and
we're gonna honor that this is areal suffering, but this isn't
all of you.
And and different communitiesculturally are gonna navigate
that differently.
Um we've had a joy of workingwith some beautifully diverse
communities, especially in thegreater California area.
(29:13):
Um, so many um differentimmigrant communities, and I
think among them there's agreater hesitancy toward
identifying with a diagnosisbecause their cultural identity
is so strong.
That's a beautiful richness thatthey bring to us that we ought
to learn from.
And so, as we've walked withsome of these communities, it's
(29:34):
well, how do we talk about thisexperience of suffering, which
is very hidden, in a languagethat makes sense to you?
And then how do you feel calledto share this with your faith
community?
And so one community that theywere we were walking with, they
said, Well, we tried to do aspeaker series about anxiety and
nobody showed up.
(29:54):
I wonder why.
Yeah.
So they said, um, we justdecided to open up a group at
the parish called Panny Cafe.
Uh-huh.
Bread and coffee, right?
And and to invite folks to comeand then to just open a
conversation around what are yougoing through?
What are some of the strugglesin your life?
And yeah, the folks leading theface sharing group, they weren't
(30:16):
mental health practitioners.
They're not claiming anexpertise that's not their own.
And they know if somebody bringsup something where it's
persistent emotional distressthat's beyond what they could
walk with, they're gonna stillprovide support, but they're
also gonna offer a referral.
They're gonna know the resourcesin their area, and they're gonna
(30:36):
say, keep coming to Panny Cafe.
Right.
But let's also talk about whatelse is out there.
SPEAKER_00 (30:42):
And rather than introduct introducing a topic
and a speaker, say, we want youto feel at home, offer
hospitality, people will respondto that invitation and then see
where the conversation goes.
SPEAKER_05 (30:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:52):
The student body would be fairly diverse.
Would I I I know here at theuniversity, within the
psychology department as well,would you say that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
Absolutely.
So I I like to brag about thediversity within our cohorts and
how many languages they speak.
The last time I checked, I think40 to 45 percent of our students
speak more than one language.
So, how great is that in thisarea when we're looking at
clinical work they can do ofgoing into Newark, going into
Patterson, going intocommunities where we need
(31:21):
someone who speaks Spanish toadminister assessments.
The comfort that comes in beingable to speak in your your your
native language and to usefeeling words that really
resonate with you.
It's been really powerful forour students.
At the same time, the needs insome of those communities are so
great.
I think last year for us it wasespecially difficult to have
(31:43):
students come in and talk abouttheir clinical work and say, my
client's getting deported.
My client's father was deportedyesterday.
Another one they can't come in,they're doing it remotely.
Um how do you stay connected toyour client through this?
How do you manage those feelingsof powerlessness that you can't
prevent a deportation?
(32:03):
Um, often feeling like it's notenough simply to be present with
someone, but as we're talkingabout tonight, the power of
relationship, of bringing themback to you're you're creating
that relationship where they dohave somebody has been really
important.
So our students are very diverseand drawn to the margins of
working with people on themargins.
We have a lot of firstgeneration students.
(32:26):
Um, we have a lot of studentswho themselves need to use
services, and that's part of myjob is to make sure their needs
are met so that they can meetthe needs of their clients.
It can be exhausting.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
But we're happy they found a home here at St.
Eves to receive an educationthat uh will uh encourage and
equip them to go back into thecommunities uh that they come
from to uh to to offer uh umhelp.
SPEAKER_01 (32:54):
And that's their goal, which is great when they
come in.
I want to go back and serve inmy community.
SPEAKER_04 (32:59):
You know, as you're reflecting, Chris, it just
strikes me the reality ofsuffering.
And we've just entered intoLent, and so we're kind of I
think of Lent as as a reminderthat we're not going through it
alone, that we don't sufferalone.
And we talked a little bitbefore about compassion fatigue.
Um, some of the providers, whatis compassion fatigue?
(33:21):
I kind of wonder about thatcompassion is a virtue.
Can you actually fatigue avirtue?
But we won't get into thattoday.
That's another problem.
Like burnout, this feeling likeI can't keep doing this helping
work.
And I witness, like we walk witha number of folks who are
volunteers at their parish,part-time staff, full-time
staff, some priests and deacons,and they just feel worn out.
(33:43):
And it kind of brings me tograpple with how do we continue
to walk with folks who aresuffering when we can't fix it,
and even w if when you're atherapist, like somebody's may
not get all better.
Anxiety might endure, depressionmight endure.
And so I think it takes us backto like what is our hope amidst
(34:04):
suffering if it doesn't mean thesuffering is gonna go away
entirely.
And I just to offer anotherlittle personal anecdote,
another community that I waswalking with, a beautifully
vibrant faith community ofmostly Filipino immigrants, and
they have a great devotionrelated to the Feast of the
Exaltation of the Cross.
(34:25):
Um, and we were out that day onthe Feast of the Exaltation to
offer a mental health kind ofworkshop and retreat.
And one of the things that Iwitnessed in the men and women
there was after they've gonehome from a day of walking with
someone, they talk about justcoming to prayer and continuing
to bring to God the suffering ofwhoever they've been walking
(34:48):
with that day.
Because it's a heavy burden tocarry and it's gonna crush us.
We can't carry it.
But it's this continual act ofbringing it to Christ as we're
seeking to be Christ and toreceive Christ in the other.
SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Both the Filipino community and the Latino
community, um uh, yes, theexaltation of the cross, and for
so many that's um preparing allthrough Lent uh for the Via
Crucis, right?
For the uh and um and and thatopportunity, faith and science,
and uh Jesus came to heal us,yes, from sin, but also um uh to
(35:26):
give us healing and peace thatall yes, only he can give with
the help of instruments that Godcan work through.
Uh but Lent and the station ofthe cross and the reflection on
his passion can remind us thatit is a long road and it it can
be a painful road.
Um but um but as people offaith, we believing that Good
(35:50):
Friday doesn't end isn't theend, but it but it uh God
transforms that that thatsuffering and death even into
new life and um and uh and thatum and you know being blessed to
work with those who you knowstruggle with depression or go
through hard times and um whenwe're have that experience of uh
(36:12):
having someone come back intothe light, you know, uh have
that experience of healing anduh and and to see um that um we
hope is there, right?
And uh you think of people inthe um uh um 12-step program or
or have gone through thatexperience um and and how um uh
(36:34):
um that accompaniment and andand walking the journey
together, yes, it's gonna bepainful, yes, it might not be
fully healed, but but but buthealing is is is possible,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (36:48):
Got a question for you, but um throw something out
there.
So let's say from theperspective of if I am dealing
with a mental health illness, isis it my fault?
Is it is it God's fault?
You know, is it how do Ireconcile that as a Catholic?
You know, where does that wheredoes that lie?
SPEAKER_04 (37:08):
Yeah, thanks for asking that question.
I'd like to answer it um bysharing the story of one of my
really close friends uh who Ishare her story with permission.
Amazing woman.
I look up to her profoundly.
We got to be friends about fiveyears ago.
By that time, she'd alreadyreceived a diagnosis of
schizophrenia and um bipolardisorder.
(37:32):
Um and her journey, she is awoman of great faith, uh,
brilliant, uh, was pursuing herPhD in her 20s when she came
down with schizophrenia.
And that's pretty common thatyou'd experience an um episode
of psychosis for the first timein your 20s, and then in and
through that, maybe learn of adiagnosis.
And um it was a rough road, asit so often is with serious
(37:56):
diagnoses like that, being inand out of psychiatric
hospitals, working to find theright medication, working to
stick to that medicationregimen.
And she shared, you know, withwith great care, um, like there
were so many times where shequestioned the faith.
And she said, God, are youpunishing me?
God, are you really there?
How could you allow thissuffering?
(38:18):
And there were times when likethe faith community didn't show
up for her.
She tells me about asking for aphone book in the psych hospital
and calling various parishesaround to see if a priest could
come visit her before finallysomebody was able to come and
visit.
Um she tells me about reachingout to a faith community then
once she was out ofhospitalization, trying to find,
(38:39):
you know, can I what's availablehere?
Can I talk to someone?
Thanks be to God.
She's found a home and and she'svery active in her faith
community currently.
They've embraced her.
She's part of faith sharinggroups.
Um, she offers some actuallyteaching there at the parish as
well.
And she said to me a few monthsago, I'll tear up when saying
(39:02):
it, she said, Beth, I wouldn'tgo back and change anything
about what's happened.
She said, God's been with methrough it all.
And she said, I have faith, eventhough I still continue to doubt
and question our Lord.
Um it's one of the greatestblessings in my life that I can
call her my friend.
And she reveals to me that,like, if you're someone out
(39:25):
there who's living with mentalillness, it's not your fault.
God is not punishing you.
Illness exists because of thereality of evil in the world and
the fall, but it's not aparticular punishment, it's not
a particular evil that you'vedone.
Um, and your need reveals to uslike we need to show up for you.
We need to live out what St.
Paul says in the letter to theCorinthians that when one part
(39:48):
of the body suffers, all suffer.
But when one part flourishes,all flourish with it.
Like we are one body, but thatmeans we need to show up for
each other.
SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
Thank you for that.
It's great.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
I think there's parallels here between faith and
and the psychology and thescience of it sounds like what
you're talking about is findingmeaning or forging meaning, and
that's a very powerful thing wedo in in psychology and
counseling is helping peoplefind that meaning and that hope.
(40:20):
And I I think we can cometogether in that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
I'm I'm not sure maybe more in philosophy than
psychology, but are collegestudents still reading Victor
Frankel's uh.
SPEAKER_04 (40:28):
I was thinking about Frankel as we were talking.
I don't know if there if enoughof them are reading it.
We need a resurgence.
SPEAKER_00 (40:35):
We don't judge the classics, they judge us, right?
They would just slip them in inthe um uh a person can get
through any how if they have asufficient why, right?
Um uh yeah, um so um uh sograteful for your your being
with us and um and taking thetime and uh and and offering the
(40:59):
a message of hope and uh I thinkalso witnessing to the value of
of education and Catholiceducation, uh uh Notre Dame, St.
Elizabeth's uh that uh are uhare helping the church to engage
with the scientific communityand supporting ministers um uh
in that formation that you'reoffering uh in the fiat program.
(41:20):
Uh so um um maybe just uh theremight be, I don't think we have
too many high school students asuh but you never know as our as
our guests, but we have theirparents and grandparents
sometimes.
Um uh but whether it be to uh afamily who is someone struggling
with mental illness, or ifthere's someone out there even
who's listening with mentalillness, maybe a message that
(41:42):
you might have, but also maybeum um uh why a young person
might consider the field of umuh mental health um uh service.
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
I I I think for me, I speaking from my own
experience, I feel like it's acalling.
And so listening, listening towhere you're called, uh there
are many different ways toserve.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
God has a plan for each of us, right?
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
So so listening to that, and I think for young
people and their families, don'tplease don't give up.
Uh the first contact maybenobody answers.
Um, but you will find someone,and that connection will lead to
good things and um feelingbetter.
Uh, that the right support, umyou will feel more alive again,
(42:30):
and um that there are a lot ofpeople who want to help.
So know that you are thought ofand cared for and prayed for.
SPEAKER_04 (42:38):
And Chris, if I can just add to that, thank you.
You know, for families um whohave a child or someone in their
life with mental illness, likeyou're not alone.
Um, the journey with mentalillness can be profoundly
isolating, not just for theperson with mental illness, but
for their loved ones.
(42:58):
Um, so many well-meaning familymembers and friends are gonna
respond with advice andjudgment.
Um and and this can be reallypainful and further isolating.
So I ask you to have the courageto keep reaching out.
The National Alliance on MentalIllness, NAMI, has local
(43:18):
chapters.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
National Alliance on Mental Illness.
SPEAKER_04 (43:21):
Yes, they have family-to-family support groups
as well as peer support groups,often in local communities or
online.
They're a good resource.
Reach out to your parish.
Tell someone that you'restruggling.
Um even if it's just going to afaith-sharing group where you're
not talking about anythingthat's going on, keep trying to
(43:41):
be around community because thesymptoms tend to be so
isolating, but unfortunatelythat just makes it worse.
So keep reaching out, keepsharing, keep having courage.
Um, ask about, explore whatresources might be available,
and tease out, you know, arethese resources in mental health
that honor me as a person offaith?
SPEAKER_00 (44:03):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Uh speaking of those resourceshere in our diocese two weeks
from tonight, I think umThursday, March 5th, we'll Jay
will be sharing the informationand uh uh um Jay, you're happy
to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:15):
Yeah, so um well first, so Beth will be back,
right?
In uh Saturday, I believe that.
Back to New Jersey in Piscatawayfor a very important uh
conference that's coming up, NewJersey Catholic Mental Health
Conference, from isolation tobelonging, mental health in the
Catholic Church.
Uh, this is a statewidegathering to strengthen
understanding, compassion, andpastoral support for those
(44:37):
facing mental health struggles.
Again, Saturday, May 2nd, 8:30.
We'll have info in the shownotes.
Bishop John P.
Dolan from the Diocese ofPhoenix will be on hand, as well
as Beth, Cardinal Joseph Tobin,Archdiocese of Newark, and a
couple others.
SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
Uh all five dioceses on the eparchy um are um
collaborating to sponsor theconference.
SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
Um, and then more locally on Thursday, March 5th,
do you have those Mental HealthMatters Workshop and overview
for supporting well-being?
And this will be 6 30 to 8 p.m.
Thursday, March 5th at St.
Mary's Church in Pompton Lake.
So check out the show.
SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
I think that's in conjunction with the New Jersey
Mental Health Association,right?
We can put more information onthe show notes.
But uh absolutely talk um uh uha good way to begin Lent, right?
Uh is uh uh a time that we haveuh uh the program for the this
celebrating the sacrament ofreconciliation, uh which I'll
(45:39):
put a little plug in for aswell, uh uh a sacrament of
healing.
Not everyone sees confession asa sacrament of healing, but I
think this to the sacrament'smaking a comeback and uh and and
that we see it not as uh the no,it's it's not easy for any of us
to say ask for forgiveness, butthe healing that comes with
receiving that forgiveness.
Um uh so uh Mondays uh in all ofour parishes from 7 to 8:30, the
(46:01):
Sacrament of Reconciliation willbe available, and it's part of
the Welcome Home to Healingprogram.
So that's one way the churchtries to offer healing, but
there are many ways that um andresources available.
So thanks so much for Beth forbeing with us and Chris and to
the university for hostingtonight and uh for allowing us
to have this opportunity.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (46:21):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
And thank you all for joining us.
Please subscribe, comment, andleave a positive rating.
Get to know us better byfollowing Bishop Kevin on
Instagram and beyond the beaconon social media.
Read the bishop's weekly columnon beaconnj.org.
Get in touch if you have aquestion for the bishop or a
podcast topic idea and discoverour other podcasts.
(46:44):
See you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
Thank you, everybody.
Have a blessed land.
Thanks so much for being withus.
Thanks.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.