July 30, 2026 • 44 mins
This October, Bishop Kevin J. Sweeney will lead a Marian pilgrimage to the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C. On this episode, Bishop Sweeney and co-host Jai Agnish are joined by Father Michael Rodak, diocesan pilgrimage director and pastor of St. Jude the Apostle Parish in Hardyston, to discuss this triennial event hosted by the Diocese of Paterson. In this episode, Father Rodak also interviews Bobby Duke, curator of the Museum of the Bible, a visit offered for the two-day trip option.
Participants can choose a one-day pilgrimage to the basilica on Saturday, Oct. 17, featuring a catechesis on prayer in English and Spanish, recitation of the Divine Mercy Chaplet, Mass with Bishop Sweeney and concelebrating priests, and an opportunity to receive reconciliation. Pilgrims can also choose a two-day trip from Friday, Oct. 16, to Saturday, Oct. 17, which includes a visit to the Museum of the Bible and a banquet dinner with Bishop Sweeney on Oct. 16 before visiting the basilica the next day for the pilgrimage.
Show notes:
https://rcdop.org/marian-pilgrimage-2026
https://beaconnj.org/will-you-join-us-on-our-diocesan-pilgrimage-to-the-basilica-of-the-national-shrine-of-the-immaculate-conception/
https://beaconnj.org/get-spiritually-charged-joining-bishops-october-pilgrimage-in-d-c/
https://www.museumofthebible.org
Email questions and podcast topic ideas to Bishop Kevin at beyond@patersondiocese.org.
Produced by Jai Agnish, Father Michael Rodak, and Bishop Kevin J. Sweeney for the Diocese of Paterson. Engineered by Cecile Pagliarulo and Jai Agnish. Edited and theme song by Jai Agnish. Illustrations by Dennis Dalelio.
Beyond The Beacon on Instagram and Facebook. Bishop Kevin on Instagram. The Diocese of Paterson on Instagram, Facebook (English) / Facebook (Spanish).
Every three years, each Diocese in the USA has the graced opportunity to make a scheduled pilgrimage as one Diocesan family with their Bishop to the National Shrine in the nation's capital. 2026 is once again "our year!" Please note the two-day and one-day options: Oct. 16, Friday, and Oct. 17, Saturday. Visit the Diocese of Paterson website here to learn more!
On Coffee with Kupke, we have a cup of coffee and sit down with diocesan archivist, Monsignor Raymond Kupke Ph.D., to delve into the history of Catholicism in the Diocese of Paterson, N.J. Hosted by Father Paul Manning and Msgr. Kupke. Listen to Coffee with Kupke wherever you get your podcasts, or watch it on the St. Paul Inside the Walls YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@stpaulinsidethewalls.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin
Sweeney, a podcast on theDiocese of Patterson, New
Jersey.
Join us for conversations aboutour Catholic faith and together
let's strive to live a life offaith, hope, and love.
We're so glad you can join us.
I'm Jay Agnish, CommunicationsDirector for the Diocese and
editor of The Beacon, our newswebsite.
With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney.
(00:28):
Bishop, how are you?
SPEAKER_04 (00:29):
Oh good, Jay.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Doing well.
How's your how's your summergoing?
Feels like it's been forever.
Yeah, it's it's been a littlewhile, a month or so.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (00:36):
July 4th was a long time ago now, right?
Yeah.
My goodness, 24 days ago, right?
Today's the 28th, so flying by,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
I was away up in Canada for a couple a couple m
mu uh weeks.
Good time in Canada.
It was nice, yeah, it was be itwas great.
Still still a little jet-lagged,but it's on the west coast, so
but uh but yeah, it was great,refreshing.
Uh saw some family and uh somebeautiful beaches and and uh
yeah, a lot of disc golf while Iwas there.
(01:05):
I almost nearly had two aces,but not to be.
But any uh any golf or any anyrecreating for you?
SPEAKER_04 (01:14):
I had a few days in the Poconos with some friends,
played some golf, so that wasnice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Oh, there you go.
Nice, good.
And um so before we go too muchfurther, I want to introduce
Father Michael Rodak, who uh inthe context of this i uh episode
is is so you're the diocesan umpilgrimage director, right?
You're also the pastor of St.
Jude's in in Hardison.
(01:38):
So welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_04 (01:40):
Happy feast day.
Um the feast of St.
James, the patron saint ofpilgrims.
And you've been pilgrimagedirector almost since you've
been ordained, right?
For the diocese.
So you and St.
James would be uh pretty tight.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
Yes.
That's correct.
You're very, very true aboutthat.
SPEAKER_04 (01:55):
So between your parish and the pilgrims, you got
two of the twelve apostles,right?
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
That's absolutely correct.
Should we uh open open withprayer?
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
Sure.
Um we place ourselves in God'spresence in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of theHoly Spirit.
Amen.
We give thanks to God for thegifts and blessings of each day,
and we seek to know and do theLord's will as a pilgrim people
striving to follow Jesus day byday with the help of the gifts
(02:25):
of the Holy Spirit and the helpand intercession of the saints,
especially of Mary, our blessedmother, who walks with us on the
journey of life and faith,leading us always closer to
Jesus, her son.
We pray through the intercessionof Mary, our blessed mother, the
Immaculate Conception, as wesay.
Hail Mary, full of grace, theLord is with thee.
(02:46):
Blessed art thou amongst women,and blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, prayfor us sinners now and at the
hour of our death.
Amen.
Our Lady, seat of wisdom, Motherof the Church, pray for us.
Saint Joseph, pray for us, SaintJames, pray for us.
All holy men and women, pray forus, pray for us.
In the name of the Father and ofthe Son and of the Holy Spirit.
(03:07):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
All right, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:09):
This is a great time of year for saints, the end of
July and August.
Um, St.
James, Joel Coming Anne,grandparents on this past
Sunday.
Um tomorrow, Martha, Mary, andLazarus, um, uh um Friday, uh
Ignatius Loyola, the founder ofthe Jesuits, uh Saturday, uh St.
(03:29):
Alphonsus Ligori, the founder ofthe Redemptors, and uh um St.
John Viani, patron saint ofParish Priests, on August 4th.
So um I'm probably missing acouple, but uh August 6th, the
transfiguration, I think.
So um so um uh good days, livesof the saints.
Uh the Hallow app as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:48):
True, true.
You know, and actually it's youknow, you mentioned that, and
I'm thinking, like, you know,Martha, you know, was always so
busy, you know, what does ourLord say?
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
Right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
And I don't think that there's uh any greater idea
or a better thing to do than totake a pilgrimage.
To take a break and to have sometime for prayer.
Right, right.
So I mean I think uh maybe weshould reach out to you know an
intercession of you know of uhSt.
Martha here to help us alonghere, to help people to take a
break and find the Lord.
SPEAKER_04 (04:16):
And uh it was for a long time on the uh in the
books, uh Feast of St.
Martha, but thanks to Pope PopeFrancis, it became Martha, Mary,
and Lazarus, the family, the twosisters and the brothers.
So as we invite individuals, weinvite families as well to uh
participate in the pilgrimage,right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Right.
And we have had some familiesalready contact and have already
signed up for the two-daypilgrimage already, uh, which is
great.
Uh you know, it was just incommunication with a family uh
last week, and uh they had saidthat, you know, you know, that
they wanted to bring their twoyoung kids, and I said, you
know, that's great.
So you know it's a greatawareness to the faith, it's a
great awareness for the wholefamily to be praying together
(04:54):
and being part of you know, twovery special days.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Yeah, so every three years, right, our diocese makes
a pilgrimage as one diocesanfamily to the National Shrine in
Washington, D.C.
And we're coming up on thatthird year again in in October,
and so there will be a one-daypilgrimage opportunity and then
a two-day pilgrimageopportunity, which we'll which
(05:18):
we'll talk about.
And um as part of this episode,Father Michael had uh had a had
a great interview with um Bobbyuh Duke, who's the curator of
the Museum of the Bible inWashington, D.C.
So the Museum of the Bible isone of the stops for the the if
you participate in the two-daypilgrimage in in which you can
(05:39):
uh take part in.
So we're gonna go to thatinterview a little later, but
for now we want to give ageneral overview of what's
happening and maybe talk aboutthe importance of a pilgrimage
and uh where do you where do youthink the best place to start
is?
SPEAKER_04 (05:51):
Right.
Thanks, Jay.
Uh and thanks, Father Michael,again for being with us and for
your work, not only as pastor ofSt.
Jude's, but uh uh for their workuh helping to lead our
pilgrimages uh here in thediocese back before my time.
What year again were youordained a priest?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Oh seven.
SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
In two thousand seven.
And from the beginning didBishop Saratelli, yeah, the
2010.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
Um right.
So uh three years later.
Three years later you were uhBishop Saratelli asked you to
help, is that it?
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Yeah, and uh well actually it was I was working
with uh Monsignor Dempkevich, uhGod bless his soul, who uh
really uh devoted his life to uhpilgrimage and prayer.
And uh then Bishop Saratelliasked me to t do it and uh we
went from there.
SPEAKER_04 (06:33):
So uh before you went to seminary, you did some
work in politics, right?
Was it in the working inTrenton?
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Yes, I did.
I worked for a couplelegislators and was working on
mainly a lot of uh, you know,family life, pro-life issues and
everything for the uh, you know,for the two legislators that I
was working for.
SPEAKER_04 (06:51):
Aaron Ross Powell And had you been interested in
pilgrimages before you uh gotinto the city of the Aaron.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
Yeah, because you know, going down to the March
for Life, of course, down toWashington, and but also um, you
know, I I find that, you know,you need that pr time of prayer,
you need that break.
And I I think a break is so veryimportant.
I I I think that we everybody isso busy, it's it's not just for
priests, all of us are busy.
And I think that everybody, ifthey have the opportunity to
(07:17):
take a break and just to juststep back and just let maybe God
talk to them.
And I think that that's what thepilgrimage offers, is that
whenever you go to a shrine, goto a place of prayer, it gives
you that opportunity.
Now's my time, God, you know,just to be with God.
It's like almost an oasis.
SPEAKER_04 (07:34):
Right.
And uh it can be a longer orshorter pilgrimage.
We just celebrated the feast ofSt.
James, and um a lot of peopleare familiar with the uh with
the Camino, right?
Uh I want to do the Camino onnot everybody knows it's the
Camino of Santiago deCompostela, right?
It ends at Compostela where theum relics of St.
(07:54):
James are in buried.
Uh and uh uh so for centuriesnow, um uh and it's made a
comeback.
I mean it's incredible howpopular it is.
So people walking 30 days,right?
Sometimes uh and there's I thinkseven or ten days.
I haven't done it yet.
I hope one of these days maybeto be able to.
But um uh it's a great part ofour spiritual heritage, the old
(08:15):
experience of pilgrimage.
Uh and we're gonna give anopportunity uh, as we do each
three each um every three yearsto see our nation's capital, if
you haven't before, um uh thenational shrine of the basilica
of the Immaculate Conception, isthat right?
Actually, it's just a little bitdifferent.
But I know I don't get it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
It's the Basilica of the National Shrine of the
Immaculate Conception.
SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
The Basilica of the National Shrine of the
Immaculate Conception.
Correct.
If you haven't been there, it'sworth the trip just to see.
Yes.
The beautiful church reallybuilt by the people of the
country and and the bishops umuh took a long time to build,
but it's on the campus ofCatholic University, which is
another thing to see.
Um but for those who arelistening or watching and uh
thinking, um, should I go on thepilgrimage?
(08:56):
Um, Father Michael, maybe justuh tell us a little bit about
maybe first uh why someone wouldwant to go, uh as you've already
talked about just getting away.
Um uh something we can dotogether as a diocese, um, why
people would want to go, andthen if they want to go, how do
they sign up?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
So what I always say to people, and as I said a few
moments ago, is that you know,we we need to take a prayer
time, we need to take a break.
Uh lives are very busy.
Uh families are so busy withtheir children going from one
place to another.
Uh, and even for those who areretired, there's never like such
a thing as you're totallyretired.
And I think if there's anopportunity for somebody to just
(09:35):
take that break.
And it, you know, the one-daypilgrimage, yes, you do spend a
significant amount of time inthe bus.
But in that bus, you know, rideand are like that, you pray the
rosary, and the whole idea ofpilgrimage is that you
anticipate.
You're anticipating what's goingto take place.
So that when they get to thebasilica, the national shrine of
the Immaculate Conception, theythey are getting there uh to the
(09:57):
largest church in the Americas,uh, number one.
Number two is that a locationthere where you have either
different within the the theshrine itself, the basilica, you
have, you know, like eightydifferent statues and and and
different personal stat youknow, shrines that you can see.
To different titles of ourblessed brother.
Absolutely.
Well, titles of that and also ofthe saints.
(10:19):
Okay.
So you know, so for example, youyou know, you have uh a
beautiful one that I always tryto go to when I'm there is uh,
you know, Our Lady of theMiraculous Metal, uh, Our Lady
of Guadalupe, Our Lady ofChestahova.
SPEAKER_04 (10:29):
And when you first walk in and you make a left,
first on your left, the shrineof Our Lady of Nock of Ireland.
Yes, you did.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Yeah, and not far from that is actually, yes, is
that, and also St.
Teresa of the Child Jesus isthere, too.
Beautiful statute of her.
So, but the these actual shrineplaces where you could go to
each of those individual shrineson the upper level, there's two
levels of the of the basilica.
The upper level also offers theBlessed Sacrament Chapel, um,
and you know, uh you have, youknow, besides those chapels, uh,
(11:03):
you know, and the upper level,you have the beautiful Trinity
Dome, uh, which I have a, youknow, on pilgrimage conference
that I go to every March uh downat the basilica, I had the great
opportunity when that was beingbuilt, uh, and to actually touch
the wall and to be able to, youknow, see these gigantic letters
that you read there.
(11:23):
And what are those letters, whatis it?
It says, it's basically it isthe Nicene Creed.
So the Nicene Creed is it iswhat it goes around at the base
of that Trinity dome.
But there you have theevangelist and you have uh
saints that are there, and aswell as of course the Trinity.
So all of that, and it's justsuch a beautiful thing to look
(11:44):
at as the skylight comes in fromthe you know from outside, and
it really is just somethingthat's really a nice highlight.
Um but there is so manydifferent things uh for people
to be able to go to.
I mean, one of the other placesI go to, which is on the crypt
level, right before you get intothe crypt church, the worship
space, is Our Lady of Lords.
Uh another, you know, nice placewhere where I'll go there, you
(12:07):
know, do my rosary, um, if Ihaven't done it upstairs in the
upper level, and you know, andjust to spend time there and
again, personal prayer time.
So you also asked about, youknow, how do people get to sign
up on this?
Well, we have two mechanisms,okay?
One is to go uh online, andactually they can go right to
(12:28):
the diocesan website, rcdop.org,and you know, there'll be a
banner that goes across with thedifferent highlights and
different things that are comingup here in the diocese uh and
you know that we like tohighlight.
But one of those banner thingswill be, you know, that come
across will be about the Marianpilgrimage uh for October 1617,
(12:48):
you know, and then when you goto that, okay, you click on
that, you will be able to godown to see where you're signing
up for the one-day pilgrimageand you're able to sign up and
what parish you're from.
The reason for that is we needto gauge, you know, where that
interest is because we're goingto be placing buses the closest
to the you know where thelocations where people are
interested.
But I and the second way thoughis that people could sign up is
(13:10):
right through the directlythrough their parish.
And I've had a number ofparishes, especially in our
inner city parishes, that havecontacted me and said we'd like
to have a bus and everything,which has been really very good
to hear.
So they'll directly have a busand you know, they will try to
fill it up, you know, at locallyfrom their parish.
And of course, if you knowanyone's is from locally that
they have to fill an extra fewspots.
(13:31):
But nonetheless, I mean there isthe that movement is you know is
happening uh of interest anddesired.
So, you know, either two ways,either through online or through
their parish.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Good.
Yeah, so um so maybe talk aboutthe one day trip versus the
two-day trip, and then maybethat's a good time to transition
to the interview and yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
So the one day trip, you know, you're gonna get there
uh God willing, uh about eleventhirty.
Uh we have the uh you'll enter.
Uh our bishop is very good.
He goes and visits uh everybodyas they come out, and everybody
wants to get a picture with thebishop, so he's there.
Nice group pictures, okay.
Yeah, nice group pictures, uh,you know, and he you know, and
he's so welcome to do that.
And uh, you know, and from therepeople will be able to go in,
(14:12):
enter through the crypt level,uh and you know, that which is
the lower level of the basilica,and they'll have that
opportunity to, you know, engagein, you know, uh several things
that will happen that day.
Um we'll have our welcome thatwill be upstairs, but uh and
then we'll have also the DivineMercy Chaplet.
Uh we'll have people have theopportunity to go for
(14:34):
reconciliation.
Uh so that's always available inthe crypt church.
And uh then we also have uh, youknow, always something a special
theme.
And this year uh ourcatechetical office is going to
have something on the part fourof the uh catechism, which is on
prayer.
So and so they will be downthere, and it will be bilingual.
(14:57):
So if anyone, you know, say, youknow, their first language of
preference would be Spanish,that they'll be able to go to
the uh to a bilingual uh, youknow, presentation on that.
So that will be down on thecrypt level as well.
And then, you know, again, uh beable to go upstairs.
Uh again, that's where thewelcome will happen.
Uh I think we have scheduled itat right at noontime.
(15:19):
And uh, you know, but peoplewill be able to meander
throughout the whole church andbe able to take part in the uh
different things and to be ableto see it.
If they want to go on a tourwith one of the docents that are
located down at the basilica,they could do that as well.
Um so uh hopefully cafeteria andgood books.
And yeah, well, you know what,people like to do that too.
So, you know, so there is, youknow, we have I think there's
(15:41):
120 seats in the cafeteria.
So, you know, we're we're notgonna be necessarily easy to
see.
We'll have to rotate in and out.
But yes, I mean a lot of timespeople want to go to the uh to
the shops.
There's on both sides of thecafeteria, so if the cafeteria
is in the middle, you have theone side, which would be the
bookshop, uh, and you know,really great Catholic books,
good spiritual books, um, andalso uh source books as well.
(16:05):
And then you have uh the giftshop, which would be on to the
right of the cafeteria.
Um so uh yes, they'll have theopportunity to do both of that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
So uh a pilgrimage uh I remember hearing when I was
in the seminary is not avacation, right?
So uh there are you can enjoyyourself, it's a nice way to
spend a day.
Those the that's great, nothingwrong with that.
Uh whether it's the one day orthe two-day.
Um but a pilgrimage is also anopportunity to offer some a
particular intention, right?
(16:35):
You might want to take thepilgrimage for someone else,
someone who's sick, someonewho's a particular prayer
intention, and be ready to makesome sacrifices.
Get up early in the morning,it's a long day, a lot of time
on the bus, you'll get to pray.
Um but um that word sacrifice,to make holy from two Latin
words, uh and and uh to pray forpeace, to pray for our diocese,
(16:58):
to pray for vocations, to prayfor families.
Um we have so much that we canpray for.
And a pilgrimage is a beautifulway to take a particular
intention or two or three, andsay, I'm I'm bringing these I'm
carrying these petitions with meduring the course of the day,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
And just to l you know, you know, Bishop, as well
as everyone, is that people willhave the opportunity in the uh
back of the upper level, uh it'sso basically in the narthex, is
that they will be actually ableto fill out on a piece of paper
that will go into a basket, andthose baskets will be presented
at the closing mass.
At the at the closing mass thatyou're gonna be the main
(17:34):
celebrant at, and uh and uhhopefully we'll have a number of
con celebrants with you as well.
Uh and uh what will happen isthat people will be able to, you
know, that will be presented inthe presentation of the gifts,
and those prayers will be placedat, you know, at the altar of,
you know, and uh so we'll bepraying for all those personal
petitions.
SPEAKER_04 (17:52):
And uh and we carry them with them as pilgrims on
the way down and on the wayback, and especially offering
them at mass those specialintentions.
So that's the one day.
Um the two-day might feel alittle bit more like a vacation,
is uh but and and it'll beenjoyable and uh uh uh kind of a
slower pace because it's overthe course of two days.
But tell us a little bit aboutthose who can join us for two
(18:14):
days.
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
Yeah, the two-day is also gonna be, you know, we're
gonna be leaving earlier.
That bus will be leaving from uhSt.
Paul Inside the Walls inMadison, uh 205 Madison Avenue.
Um so everybody would be goingthere from wherever they may be
in the diocese, and the the buswill go down.
Uh the fur and it will be makinga stop at the Museum of the
Bible.
Uh you'll first have to.
SPEAKER_04 (18:33):
You'll hear more about the Museum of the Bible
shortly.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
And so we'll have, you know, you have lunch, uh,
then you'll be able to go on atour of the museum, and then uh
to be able to go on your own uhto different parts, and all of
that is covered in the interviewthat will follow our
conversation here today.
Uh and then after that you'll goto the hotel, check in, uh, and
then we have a banquet withBishop.
Uh so uh so a banquet dinner.
(18:57):
Uh get home, uh get back to yourroom, rest up, and then the next
day you will join in thatone-day pilgrimage with everyone
else.
SPEAKER_04 (19:04):
Um the Yankees might be in the playoffs, but we'll be
able to follow that if we'regonna be able to do that.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
I mean, we're getting into thatthird week.
October 16th, 17th.
We're getting into that thirdweek of the month.
Yeah.
But we'll cross that bridge whenwe come to it, as we say.
Um But uh uh whether it's theone day or the two day,
hopefully uh you can join us.
It's something to do together asthe church of the diocese.
(19:26):
Hopefully, our priests andpastors, I know, and others
leaders are encouraging uhparticipation in people.
But sign up sooner than later souh we know and we can make good
preparations.
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
Yeah, we there is that's very important, Bishop.
You uh you said somethingextremely important.
In fact, the sign-up for thetwo-day pilgrimage is September
the 11th.
Uh so we really need to havethat number uh in order to be
able to set up the rooms andeverything like that.
So there is really we're runningon time here if you want to go
to make the two-day pilgrimage,and which again a great thing
(19:55):
also if you want to bring yourfamilies.
And again, if you want to bringyour families to the one-day
pilgrimage, uh that is extendedto the end of the month, and uh
you'll be able to go ahead andto do that again either online
or at your parish.
Great.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
So now we're gonna um take a Yeah, so check the
show notes.
We're gonna have all of thisinformation in the show notes as
well.
And um yeah, why don't we go tothe interview that Father
Michael had with Looking forwardto that?
Yeah, for the Q this is FatherMichael.
We'll be back then afterwards tosay goodbye.
So come back after and we'lltalk a little more.
So why don't we we'll go to thatinterview now?
(20:29):
It's Father Michael Rodak withBobby Duke, the curator of the
Museum of the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
I'd like to thank uh Bishop Sweeney for giving us a
little time here to have aconversation with actually
someone who knows a lot aboutthe Museum on the Bible, and
that's uh our guest today, who'sthe curator uh from the Museum
of the Bi uh Bible.
So I welcome you uh Bobby hereto our uh program and uh Bobby
Duke is the curator and uh wewelcome you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
Thank you so much for having us.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
So Bobby, tell us you know, uh I I've been there
multiple times.
Uh it was a great place.
You know, uh original faiththat's my own personal feeling.
But tell us a little bit morewhy people should want to attend
and go over to the museum of theBible and to you know, for us
who's attending our two-daypilgrimage, in which the first
(21:30):
day will include uh the museumof the Bible.
So, what would entice them togo?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Well, uh I mean our vision of the museum is to
invite all people to engage withthe transformative power of the
Bible.
So even if you mentioned comingon pilgrimage, I mean the museum
inspires people to know theirthe Bible better, but also to
understand its rich andimportant history.
So we have multiple floors,multiple activities that we did
on different levels, and justdraw people in to understand
(21:59):
more.
Of just the uh the incrediblenature of the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
So you say that, and you know, somebody may hear that
and they may say, Well, geewhiz, I don't really know much
about the Bible.
You know, I you know, I wouldlike to get into reading it, I'd
like to get to know more aboutit.
Um, so is this okay for a noviceto go?
SPEAKER_00 (22:19):
Absolutely.
Um, we have so many differentexperiences that uh, like I
said, just touch people indifferent ways.
I mean, we have something assimple as uh a ride over the
city of Washington, D.C., whereyou see where scripture is
embedded in buildings all overthis city.
And it just reminds you how uhimportant scripture has always
been to the United States.
(22:39):
Uh, we currently have an exhibitthat we opened July 3rd in honor
of America's 250th.
It's called Sacred Liberty, andit just shares how 250 years
ago, everybody, whether or notthey were hyper-religious or
not, they knew the Bible.
And it was just part of the uhthe water that was drink and the
air that was breathed in ourcountry.
(23:00):
But we also have a history floorthat walks very uh uh
methodically through uh how theBible came to us from scrolls to
now scrolling.
And uh, we even talk about that.
Today, when we sit on an iPad ora phone, we scroll through
books.
Well, we're just getting back tothe scrolling technology that
they had 2,000 years ago,because we currently have a Dead
(23:21):
Sea Scrolls exhibit that peoplecan also see.
So it is one that um people ofany previous knowledge or no
knowledge, people of uhChristian faith or people who
are just curious, they can findsomething here at the Museum of
the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
And now, do you have likeanything that's like some you
know original?
You know, I don't know if youknow I would have to say an
original Bible, but I think itwould be very hard to find, but
but do you have any what is someof the Bibles that you have
there that you have uh ondisplay that uh relate some have
some great dating to it?
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yep.
So we have this exhibit with uhthe Dead Sea scrolls that will
be open until September 7th.
Uh then it is actually going tomove to Houston, uh, and it'll
be in Houston for about ninemonths at the air science museum
there.
But uh these actually are partsof scripture that date back two
thousand years.
So we have items that can beviewed right now that were read
(24:54):
by the community by the Dead Seaat the same time Jesus and the
disciples were teaching aroundthe Sea of Galilee.
Umside of that, we have early uhtranslations Greek, Armenian,
Syriac, Coptic.
Uh we come all the way up andthen tell the story of how the
working press transformed theway uh the Bible was uh
democratized and made accessibleto people.
(25:16):
So we have uh of all thosedifferent ages, original texts
that uh highlight that importanthistory.
SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
Now, you have a lot of movable uh that, you know, as
you mentioned, the Dead SeaScrolls is leaving in September,
but uh you have a lot of uhdifferent, you know, things that
you offer.
Uh one of those is that youactually have a Vatican Museum
uh part right there on the firstfloor as you enter.
Um what is something like thatthat people would be able to uh
see?
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Yeah, so before the opening of the museum in 2017,
we uh formed a uh kind ofpartnership uh with the Vatican.
We have hosted things over theyears uh from their collection.
Uh we currently in that uhgallery, the Vatican Gallery,
have a mosaic floor, which isthe earliest church floor ever
discovered archaeologically.
(26:06):
This is the first place it hasever been displayed, and it will
be here until the end ofDecember, and then it will
travel for a season.
But it comes to us from uh fromIsrael.
Right on that mosaic floor, itactually gives thanks to the
person who paid for the tablewhere you'd have had the
Eucharist to the honor of theGod Jesus Christ.
So the earliest statement of thedivinity of Christ on a mosaic
(26:29):
floor that dates back to 230,and that's in our Vatican
gallery that uh we have setaside for that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Perfect.
Yeah, that's uh that really isvery interesting.
I mean, and I mean, what aresome of the reactions that you
get from people uh that whenthey see that?
I guess that there must be, Iguess, some awe that that we go,
wow, this is such an awesomething to look at.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Yeah, I love to watch people in the Megiddo
Mosaic because when they realizeit is original.
1800 years ago, early Christianswere walking on that floor and
having the Eucharist.
We get the same response in theDead Sea Scrolls Gallery when
people see the uh limestonetable called the Magdala Stone
that was found in Magdala,Israel, uh the one of the
(27:13):
earliest synagogues we know ofaround the Sea of Galilee, and
quite possibly a uh table thatwas in the synagogue that Jesus
would have visited.
Um, people will say, Is that theoriginal or is that a replica?
We're like, no, that's theoriginal.
And there there is somethingabout being connected to
something of that ancienthistory.
Um, here in our own country, wejust celebrated 250 years, and
(27:35):
sometimes you have to pause whenyou think of ancient history,
particularly anything connectedto the Bible.
250 years all of a sudden soundskind of cute, not uh amazing
when you think of 2,000 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (27:50):
Yeah, absolutely correct.
I mean, there's no doubt.
Uh, and you know, just for thatto be opened up for people to
see uh and to become aware of uhand to grow in their faith, grow
in their knowledge, uh, and youknow, hopefully that will great
do a you know some wonders inpeople's hearts and minds to
have a greater and deeperrelationship.
So that's wonderful.
(28:11):
You had mentioned that thereare, you know, multiple floors.
Um so what are some of the youknow different things on the
different floors that peoplewere able to see?
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
So our permanent galleries are on our second,
third, and fourth floors, andour second floor is what we call
the impact of the Bible.
Our third floor is stories ofthe Bible, and our fourth floor
is history of the Bible.
So most people will actually goto our sixth floor where there's
a panoramic view of Washington,D.C.
Then they'll start working theirway down.
Special exhibits are on thefifth floor, but uh the fourth
(28:42):
floor with history uh goesthrough our earliest knowledge
of scripture all the way up tothe modern digital era and
modern Bible translations.
Our stories floor, which is ourthird floor, it has an amazing
uh Hebrew Bible experience wherein 20 minutes you get the entire
story and narrative of the OldTestament.
(29:03):
It's narrated the whole time byEzra, and you get this sense of
uh the powerful story of the OldTestament.
And I particularly like whenschool groups, when I see uh uh
various school groups that comehere on field trips, because I
know that many of them in eighthgrade or ninth grade, they may
not know the Old Testament verywell.
And in 20 minutes, they have thenarrative arc.
(29:25):
On that floor, we also have aNew Testament experience that
focuses particularly in on apassage from Luke 24 of the road
to Emmaus, and it really talksabout the um uh forgiveness that
Jesus offered.
And then uh the center of thatfloor is a replica that's called
the uh Jesus at the time ofNazareth, uh, or Nazareth at the
time of Jesus.
(29:45):
So it's our uh Nazareth villagewhere we have living history
interpreters, people dressed upin costume that stay in
character, and we'll tell youall about um the grape harvest
and barley harvest and uh thehow to make olive oil.
Uh they'll tell you all aboutwhat was life like 2,000 years
ago as Jesus was growing up andliving in Nazareth.
(30:07):
And then our impact of the Biblefloor, our second floor.
Uh that is one that starts withthe Bible in America to show the
impact the Bible has had inAmerica.
And then it has a section calledthe Bible in the world.
And in that section, differentthemes are picked up.
So we have the Bible inmedicine, the Bible in criminal
justice, the Bible in art, theBible in fashion to just show
(30:30):
how impactful the Bible is onall these different uh realities
around the world.
Um yesterday I actually met witha director of a hospital uh in
the Middle East that has been aChristian hospital in uh the uh
UAE for many, many years.
And he was just telling me aboutuh how their hospital began
because people read scripture.
(30:51):
And it uh it's just thatpowerful moment to see in all
these different areas how peoplehave read the Bible over the
years and then been inspired todo good.
SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
Oh, that's wonderful.
Um, I do have a couplefollow-ups, but I just want to
uh let everyone know if you justtuned in uh to today's podcast
of Beyond the Beacon with BishopSweeney, uh, we're having a
special uh guest today.
Uh and also I am doing theinterviewing here.
Um Father Michael Rodak, thediocesan pilgrimage director,
speaking about our Octoberpilgrimage that will be taking
(31:25):
place uh the 16th and 17th is atwo-day and the one-day uh main
pilgrimage is the 17th to theBasilica of the National Shrine.
And our guest here today uh isBobby Duke, uh, who is the chief
curator of the Museum of theBible.
And we've been discussing somany different things uh with
him today, and very glad that wehave you here with us, uh Bobby.
(31:47):
Um and I want to do just acouple follow-ups.
So, you know, let's go back tothis whole thing, you know, on
the on that floor.
You know, you're saying thatpeople will go into Nazareth and
uh actually like bring them backin time.
People will be in the costume tobe able to talk to them.
What is that really like?
I mean, you know, so you know II mean I've heard already uh
(32:07):
from one of the employees at themuseum that you don't ask them
to take pictures of you becausethe cameras weren't around in
that time.
So tell us a little bit moreabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Yeah, no, the characters will stay in
character.
So if you try to hand them acell phone and say, take a
picture of us, they'll be like,this is such a strange device.
I've never seen anything likethis.
So they will uh kind of stay incharacter.
Um but I would say the one ofthe challenges modern people
have with reading scripture isthere are so many foreign
(32:38):
concepts, or if you don'tunderstand the cultural
background of the Bible, you canuh even misunderstand certain
passages.
So being something in thatvillage, you get a sense of the
fact that uh when Jesus came tothe synagogue of Nazareth uh in
the beginning of the Gospels andwas rejected, you get a sense
that it's a small place.
So people knew each other.
(32:59):
I mean, he's rejected by familyand friends um that uh were
there.
So you just get taken back intime to the to the to the life
and the world of Jesus and thedisciples.
SPEAKER_02 (33:12):
Yeah, I would I would assume that, you know, as
people are walking in there, andyou know, many people who have
never you know traveled uh toNazareth uh and you know having
the opportunity uh to be able tojust see a glimpse of what it
was all like.
I also understand that thechosen had used a portion of
that area for uh one of theirprograms as well.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
Correct.
So we have a uh a uh movietheater basically tucked in
between our New Testamentexperience and our Nazareth
village that is showing clips ofthe chosen all day.
Um we also have another theateron uh fourth floor that actually
will show um these videos by aman named David Stott, who does
(33:55):
this uh journey throughscripture.
And we also right now areshowing uh episodes of the Dead
Sea Squirrels.
Think of squirrels.
There's a there's an animatedchildren series that's uh
written by a Christian uhanimator.
There's videos, books, but it uhfollows these two squirrels that
teach you about uh ancientscrolls, the Bible, the history
(34:17):
of the Bible.
So um again, for uh anyone inyour group who might be bringing
children, there's there's thingsin the museum to actually give
them some time if they don'twant to look at ancient books,
they can then reflect on uh howanimated squirrels can teach
them about the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (34:37):
Well, that's really that sounds wonderful.
And yeah, we do already have acouple uh young people that are
gonna be going with theirparents on the trip, so uh I'm
glad to hear that.
Uh and hopefully uh it willentice others to uh be able to
do this two-day pilgrimage.
And uh Friday is the day inwhich we'll be going to the
Museum of the Bible.
And um this is uh reallywonderful here.
In our last few minutes here, II just want uh you know ask you,
(34:59):
you know, there has been a greatdraw.
Uh I mean, a lot of uhadvertising.
Uh I've seen it in the Metro inWashington, which is the
Washington subway, for those whohave not used it.
Uh I've I've also uh it was uhhad a good prominence uh at the
uh Great American Fair uh backin the uh early part of July.
(35:20):
Uh so there has been a lot ofmovement to try to uh attract
people and to let people knowabout the Bible.
Why is that such and so relevantan importance to people to have
that?
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
Yeah, so no, we have uh realized that uh the Museum
of the Bible is one of the bestkept secrets here in Washington,
D.C., even though we're in avery prominent building.
Um but again, people can uh justget into their routines and not
realize some of the treasuresitting right there.
So we did around the 4th of Julydo a couple metro stop takeovers
where you could see ouradvertisement everywhere.
(35:54):
Um, but again, we just want toinvite all people in to learn
about how transformative theBible has been.
Uh, everyone probably has apreconceived notion of scripture
that may not be based in anykind of reality or fact.
So we're just putting before uhany of our guests to come in,
whether they are deeply peopleof faith, or if they're uh
(36:15):
questioning and skeptical, well,come and learn about it
directly.
Um and uh read all about itshistory and its antiquity and uh
some of the uh the things thatyou may not have considered when
you just hear the word Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
You say transformative, but would you
also consider it to beimmersive?
SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
No, for sure.
Um we uh we even I would say theNazareth village is one of those
immersive experiences that uhtouch, taste, feel, you can see
it all around you.
Um that Nazareth village duringuh uh the Christmas season, we
actually transformed it intoBethlehem and had a nativity
where uh guests could come inand hear all about uh the time
(36:55):
of taxation 2,000 years ago.
And it really was a goal to um,as people are already thinking
about the nativity, well, let'sput them right into the scene.
So they had to go into thesynagogue and they are also
looking for rooms to stay in.
And it's one where anything wecan do immersively, I think,
helps our guests, particularlyany of our younger guests.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Right.
You have two films that are alsothat are uh one on the old
testament, one on the newtestament, also on that same
floor, if I could remembercorrectly.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Correct.
Yeah, the Hebrew Bibleexperience like has film woven
into it, but you walk throughand then you're being uh uh told
the story of the Hebrew Bible,and then uh again, I already
mentioned the chosen showing,um, and then that film about the
road to Emmaus.
Um, the Washington Revelation isa film, but you're actually
feeling like you're flying overuh DC.
(37:46):
So it is very technologicallyadvanced too that we have not
just signs to read, but alsoexperiences to have.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Yeah, the you know, and when people do that, you
know, they're only gonna get tomore and more knowledge and you
know, and actually almost like alove of the Bible.
And I think would you say thatyou know that is one of the
goals of the museum is to beable to have people leave, not
only to be, you know, have a anawareness of the Bible and to be
enticed to be able to learnabout the Bible, but really also
(38:19):
to love the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
No, absolutely.
I think uh we would love everyvisitor who comes to kind of
move one step down if they comeas a skeptic, that they're now
realizing that I need to lookinto that.
If they come as a nominal personof faith, they're like, wait a
minute, my faith is somethingthat has antiquity and history.
If they come with already a deeplove for scripture, this just
(38:43):
gives them the grounding to knowwhy that is.
So I think we have developed amuseum that can take people
wherever they come and move themto a place where they will uh
love and respect Scripture.
SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
Well, Bobby, I really appreciate all the time
that you've given us here on ourpodcast here for the Bishop and
Beyond the Beacon.
Uh, it has really been apleasure for me to spend some
time with you.
I know that uh I'm personallylooking forward to it.
I know the bishop is also goingto go to the Museum of the Bible
uh as well.
And uh we're hoping that we haveenough pilgrims to be down there
(39:17):
to uh enjoy it and to become notonly the immersive experience,
um, but also uh to find anewness of and a new love of the
Bible.
And I think that that's what'sso very important.
And uh I'm you know trulygrateful for you joining us
today, Bobby, uh, for giving usthis time.
And uh, you know, God willing,uh we're gonna be uh seeing each
other in uh October and uhlooking forward to the
(39:39):
opportunity uh for everybody towalk out of there with that
newfound love of the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (39:44):
Oh well, thank you so much, Father.
And uh do I hope as many peoplewho hear this podcast will
realize this would be a greatopportunity for them to learn
more about Scripture.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
Great, Bobby.
Thank you very much, and youhave a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (40:07):
Well done, Father Michael, you're a pro.
SPEAKER_02 (40:11):
It was my days that I spent a little time in doing
newswork, so you go.
SPEAKER_04 (40:15):
We got all the news about the Museum of the Bible,
correct?
Things you can see in DC, and uhwell.
Um anything that surprised you?
SPEAKER_02 (40:21):
I know you've learned a lot of it you're aware
of already, but I think youknow, for me, I I've not been to
the Holy Land, so I mean theyhave actually a replica location
there of walking the street ofNazareth, and actually they have
characters that are there.
Uh and as Bobby Duke, thecurator, had mentioned uh during
the interview, is that don't askthem to go ahead and take a
picture with you, okay?
(40:43):
Of you or a selfie with you,because they there is no such
thing as phones in those days.
So uh they actually play thepart of what they what their
role is and what they were doingin that time.
And uh just to be able to seethat I think is really uh is
just very touching, I think.
And uh, you know, it hits home.
It hits home uh because uh torealize that you know this is
(41:05):
the town of where Jesus wasborn, and to have something that
is replicate set that is soimportant.
SPEAKER_04 (41:10):
Like being on the set of the chosen.
SPEAKER_02 (41:13):
Actually, Bishop, the part of the chosen was
filmed there.
And actually people will be ableto see clippings of that from
there.
SPEAKER_04 (41:20):
Um Well, thank you for that, and uh we hope that
many will be able to join us forthe two-day pilgrimage, so
they'll be able to.
I haven't been there yet, andI'm looking forward to the first
time.
Yes, I'm glad to hear thatyou're gonna be coming as well.
SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
Yes, uh, you know, again, sign up for that is very
important September 11th.
Please do reach out uh directlyto the pilgrimage office, uh,
which is located at St.
Drew the Apostle in Hardyston.
Or uh just, you know, again, youcould do it on the website for
the banner uh that goes to thecode.
SPEAKER_04 (41:48):
I see the Paterson.
R C D O P.
Right, right.
And um I think this will be willthis be out by the end of the
week?
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
Uh yeah, we'll get it out.
SPEAKER_04 (41:57):
Right.
So uh if you're hearing thisbefore August 1st, say a prayer
for uh one of our seminarians,Carlos Vargas, who will be
ordained a deacon this comingSaturday at Cecil's home parish
of uh uh St.
Anthony's in Passaic.
Uh and uh um looking forward tothat.
So uh and uh our seminarianswith our um vocation director,
Father Charlie Lana, and a bunchof discerners are actually doing
(42:21):
uh for the second year um aservice retreat this week, uh,
thanks to our friends at the umLoyola Retreat Center in
Morristown, and um they'restaying there each night but
going out.
Yesterday they visited theSalesian sisters in their summer
camp in North Heldon.
I think they got a lot of rainin North Heldon yesterday.
Um but um but they were there inthe morning, it was fine, and
(42:42):
then they uh had made sandwichesthe night before and were
distributing them to people inneed uh in the city of
Patterson, and they're doingsomething different each day.
And uh good way for Carlos toget ready for his uh uh diaconal
services, he'll be ordained adeacon.
But so we uh pray for them andpray for vocations.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Check the beacon for coverage of these various
events, and all right, so Iguess we'll we'll leave it there
then.
Thank you, Father Baikon.
Thank you for watching.
And thank you all for joiningus.
Please subscribe, comment, andleave a positive rating.
Get to know us better byfollowing Bishop Kevin's
Instagram and Beyond the Beaconon social media.
Read the bishop's weekly columnon beaconnj.org.
(43:19):
Get in touch if you have aquestion for the bishop or a
podcast topic idea, and discoverour other podcasts.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_04 (43:27):
Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
God bless you.
Welcome to Beyond the Beacon with Bishop Kevin
Sweeney, a podcast on theDiocese of Patterson, New
Jersey.
Join us for conversations aboutour Catholic faith and together
let's strive to live a life offaith, hope, and love.
We're so glad you can join us.
I'm Jay Agnish, CommunicationsDirector for the Diocese and
editor of The Beacon, our newswebsite.
With me is Bishop Kevin Sweeney.
(00:28):
Bishop, how are you?
SPEAKER_04 (00:29):
Oh good, Jay.
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Doing well.
How's your how's your summergoing?
Feels like it's been forever.
Yeah, it's it's been a littlewhile, a month or so.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (00:36):
July 4th was a long time ago now, right?
Yeah.
My goodness, 24 days ago, right?
Today's the 28th, so flying by,yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
I was away up in Canada for a couple a couple m
mu uh weeks.
Good time in Canada.
It was nice, yeah, it was be itwas great.
Still still a little jet-lagged,but it's on the west coast, so
but uh but yeah, it was great,refreshing.
Uh saw some family and uh somebeautiful beaches and and uh
yeah, a lot of disc golf while Iwas there.
(01:05):
I almost nearly had two aces,but not to be.
But any uh any golf or any anyrecreating for you?
SPEAKER_04 (01:14):
I had a few days in the Poconos with some friends,
played some golf, so that wasnice.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Oh, there you go.
Nice, good.
And um so before we go too muchfurther, I want to introduce
Father Michael Rodak, who uh inthe context of this i uh episode
is is so you're the diocesan umpilgrimage director, right?
You're also the pastor of St.
Jude's in in Hardison.
(01:38):
So welcome.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_04 (01:40):
Happy feast day.
Um the feast of St.
James, the patron saint ofpilgrims.
And you've been pilgrimagedirector almost since you've
been ordained, right?
For the diocese.
So you and St.
James would be uh pretty tight.
SPEAKER_03 (01:52):
Yes.
That's correct.
You're very, very true aboutthat.
SPEAKER_04 (01:55):
So between your parish and the pilgrims, you got
two of the twelve apostles,right?
SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
That's absolutely correct.
Should we uh open open withprayer?
SPEAKER_04 (02:03):
Sure.
Um we place ourselves in God'spresence in the name of the
Father and of the Son and of theHoly Spirit.
Amen.
We give thanks to God for thegifts and blessings of each day,
and we seek to know and do theLord's will as a pilgrim people
striving to follow Jesus day byday with the help of the gifts
(02:25):
of the Holy Spirit and the helpand intercession of the saints,
especially of Mary, our blessedmother, who walks with us on the
journey of life and faith,leading us always closer to
Jesus, her son.
We pray through the intercessionof Mary, our blessed mother, the
Immaculate Conception, as wesay.
Hail Mary, full of grace, theLord is with thee.
(02:46):
Blessed art thou amongst women,and blessed is the fruit of thy
womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, prayfor us sinners now and at the
hour of our death.
Amen.
Our Lady, seat of wisdom, Motherof the Church, pray for us.
Saint Joseph, pray for us, SaintJames, pray for us.
All holy men and women, pray forus, pray for us.
In the name of the Father and ofthe Son and of the Holy Spirit.
(03:07):
Amen.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
All right, yes.
SPEAKER_04 (03:09):
This is a great time of year for saints, the end of
July and August.
Um, St.
James, Joel Coming Anne,grandparents on this past
Sunday.
Um tomorrow, Martha, Mary, andLazarus, um, uh um Friday, uh
Ignatius Loyola, the founder ofthe Jesuits, uh Saturday, uh St.
(03:29):
Alphonsus Ligori, the founder ofthe Redemptors, and uh um St.
John Viani, patron saint ofParish Priests, on August 4th.
So um I'm probably missing acouple, but uh August 6th, the
transfiguration, I think.
So um so um uh good days, livesof the saints.
Uh the Hallow app as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:48):
True, true.
You know, and actually it's youknow, you mentioned that, and
I'm thinking, like, you know,Martha, you know, was always so
busy, you know, what does ourLord say?
SPEAKER_04 (03:57):
Right, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
And I don't think that there's uh any greater idea
or a better thing to do than totake a pilgrimage.
To take a break and to have sometime for prayer.
Right, right.
So I mean I think uh maybe weshould reach out to you know an
intercession of you know of uhSt.
Martha here to help us alonghere, to help people to take a
break and find the Lord.
SPEAKER_04 (04:16):
And uh it was for a long time on the uh in the
books, uh Feast of St.
Martha, but thanks to Pope PopeFrancis, it became Martha, Mary,
and Lazarus, the family, the twosisters and the brothers.
So as we invite individuals, weinvite families as well to uh
participate in the pilgrimage,right?
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
Right.
And we have had some familiesalready contact and have already
signed up for the two-daypilgrimage already, uh, which is
great.
Uh you know, it was just incommunication with a family uh
last week, and uh they had saidthat, you know, you know, that
they wanted to bring their twoyoung kids, and I said, you
know, that's great.
So you know it's a greatawareness to the faith, it's a
great awareness for the wholefamily to be praying together
(04:54):
and being part of you know, twovery special days.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
Yeah, so every three years, right, our diocese makes
a pilgrimage as one diocesanfamily to the National Shrine in
Washington, D.C.
And we're coming up on thatthird year again in in October,
and so there will be a one-daypilgrimage opportunity and then
a two-day pilgrimageopportunity, which we'll which
(05:18):
we'll talk about.
And um as part of this episode,Father Michael had uh had a had
a great interview with um Bobbyuh Duke, who's the curator of
the Museum of the Bible inWashington, D.C.
So the Museum of the Bible isone of the stops for the the if
you participate in the two-daypilgrimage in in which you can
(05:39):
uh take part in.
So we're gonna go to thatinterview a little later, but
for now we want to give ageneral overview of what's
happening and maybe talk aboutthe importance of a pilgrimage
and uh where do you where do youthink the best place to start
is?
SPEAKER_04 (05:51):
Right.
Thanks, Jay.
Uh and thanks, Father Michael,again for being with us and for
your work, not only as pastor ofSt.
Jude's, but uh uh for their workuh helping to lead our
pilgrimages uh here in thediocese back before my time.
What year again were youordained a priest?
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
Oh seven.
SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
In two thousand seven.
And from the beginning didBishop Saratelli, yeah, the
2010.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
Um right.
So uh three years later.
Three years later you were uhBishop Saratelli asked you to
help, is that it?
SPEAKER_02 (06:20):
Yeah, and uh well actually it was I was working
with uh Monsignor Dempkevich, uhGod bless his soul, who uh
really uh devoted his life to uhpilgrimage and prayer.
And uh then Bishop Saratelliasked me to t do it and uh we
went from there.
SPEAKER_04 (06:33):
So uh before you went to seminary, you did some
work in politics, right?
Was it in the working inTrenton?
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
Yes, I did.
I worked for a couplelegislators and was working on
mainly a lot of uh, you know,family life, pro-life issues and
everything for the uh, you know,for the two legislators that I
was working for.
SPEAKER_04 (06:51):
Aaron Ross Powell And had you been interested in
pilgrimages before you uh gotinto the city of the Aaron.
SPEAKER_02 (06:56):
Yeah, because you know, going down to the March
for Life, of course, down toWashington, and but also um, you
know, I I find that, you know,you need that pr time of prayer,
you need that break.
And I I think a break is so veryimportant.
I I I think that we everybody isso busy, it's it's not just for
priests, all of us are busy.
And I think that everybody, ifthey have the opportunity to
(07:17):
take a break and just to juststep back and just let maybe God
talk to them.
And I think that that's what thepilgrimage offers, is that
whenever you go to a shrine, goto a place of prayer, it gives
you that opportunity.
Now's my time, God, you know,just to be with God.
It's like almost an oasis.
SPEAKER_04 (07:34):
Right.
And uh it can be a longer orshorter pilgrimage.
We just celebrated the feast ofSt.
James, and um a lot of peopleare familiar with the uh with
the Camino, right?
Uh I want to do the Camino onnot everybody knows it's the
Camino of Santiago deCompostela, right?
It ends at Compostela where theum relics of St.
(07:54):
James are in buried.
Uh and uh uh so for centuriesnow, um uh and it's made a
comeback.
I mean it's incredible howpopular it is.
So people walking 30 days,right?
Sometimes uh and there's I thinkseven or ten days.
I haven't done it yet.
I hope one of these days maybeto be able to.
But um uh it's a great part ofour spiritual heritage, the old
(08:15):
experience of pilgrimage.
Uh and we're gonna give anopportunity uh, as we do each
three each um every three yearsto see our nation's capital, if
you haven't before, um uh thenational shrine of the basilica
of the Immaculate Conception, isthat right?
Actually, it's just a little bitdifferent.
But I know I don't get it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:34):
It's the Basilica of the National Shrine of the
Immaculate Conception.
SPEAKER_04 (08:36):
The Basilica of the National Shrine of the
Immaculate Conception.
Correct.
If you haven't been there, it'sworth the trip just to see.
Yes.
The beautiful church reallybuilt by the people of the
country and and the bishops umuh took a long time to build,
but it's on the campus ofCatholic University, which is
another thing to see.
Um but for those who arelistening or watching and uh
thinking, um, should I go on thepilgrimage?
(08:56):
Um, Father Michael, maybe justuh tell us a little bit about
maybe first uh why someone wouldwant to go, uh as you've already
talked about just getting away.
Um uh something we can dotogether as a diocese, um, why
people would want to go, andthen if they want to go, how do
they sign up?
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
So what I always say to people, and as I said a few
moments ago, is that you know,we we need to take a prayer
time, we need to take a break.
Uh lives are very busy.
Uh families are so busy withtheir children going from one
place to another.
Uh, and even for those who areretired, there's never like such
a thing as you're totallyretired.
And I think if there's anopportunity for somebody to just
(09:35):
take that break.
And it, you know, the one-daypilgrimage, yes, you do spend a
significant amount of time inthe bus.
But in that bus, you know, rideand are like that, you pray the
rosary, and the whole idea ofpilgrimage is that you
anticipate.
You're anticipating what's goingto take place.
So that when they get to thebasilica, the national shrine of
the Immaculate Conception, theythey are getting there uh to the
(09:57):
largest church in the Americas,uh, number one.
Number two is that a locationthere where you have either
different within the the theshrine itself, the basilica, you
have, you know, like eightydifferent statues and and and
different personal stat youknow, shrines that you can see.
To different titles of ourblessed brother.
Absolutely.
Well, titles of that and also ofthe saints.
(10:19):
Okay.
So you know, so for example, youyou know, you have uh a
beautiful one that I always tryto go to when I'm there is uh,
you know, Our Lady of theMiraculous Metal, uh, Our Lady
of Guadalupe, Our Lady ofChestahova.
SPEAKER_04 (10:29):
And when you first walk in and you make a left,
first on your left, the shrineof Our Lady of Nock of Ireland.
Yes, you did.
SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
Yeah, and not far from that is actually, yes, is
that, and also St.
Teresa of the Child Jesus isthere, too.
Beautiful statute of her.
So, but the these actual shrineplaces where you could go to
each of those individual shrineson the upper level, there's two
levels of the of the basilica.
The upper level also offers theBlessed Sacrament Chapel, um,
and you know, uh you have, youknow, besides those chapels, uh,
(11:03):
you know, and the upper level,you have the beautiful Trinity
Dome, uh, which I have a, youknow, on pilgrimage conference
that I go to every March uh downat the basilica, I had the great
opportunity when that was beingbuilt, uh, and to actually touch
the wall and to be able to, youknow, see these gigantic letters
that you read there.
(11:23):
And what are those letters, whatis it?
It says, it's basically it isthe Nicene Creed.
So the Nicene Creed is it iswhat it goes around at the base
of that Trinity dome.
But there you have theevangelist and you have uh
saints that are there, and aswell as of course the Trinity.
So all of that, and it's justsuch a beautiful thing to look
(11:44):
at as the skylight comes in fromthe you know from outside, and
it really is just somethingthat's really a nice highlight.
Um but there is so manydifferent things uh for people
to be able to go to.
I mean, one of the other placesI go to, which is on the crypt
level, right before you get intothe crypt church, the worship
space, is Our Lady of Lords.
Uh another, you know, nice placewhere where I'll go there, you
(12:07):
know, do my rosary, um, if Ihaven't done it upstairs in the
upper level, and you know, andjust to spend time there and
again, personal prayer time.
So you also asked about, youknow, how do people get to sign
up on this?
Well, we have two mechanisms,okay?
One is to go uh online, andactually they can go right to
(12:28):
the diocesan website, rcdop.org,and you know, there'll be a
banner that goes across with thedifferent highlights and
different things that are comingup here in the diocese uh and
you know that we like tohighlight.
But one of those banner thingswill be, you know, that come
across will be about the Marianpilgrimage uh for October 1617,
(12:48):
you know, and then when you goto that, okay, you click on
that, you will be able to godown to see where you're signing
up for the one-day pilgrimageand you're able to sign up and
what parish you're from.
The reason for that is we needto gauge, you know, where that
interest is because we're goingto be placing buses the closest
to the you know where thelocations where people are
interested.
But I and the second way thoughis that people could sign up is
(13:10):
right through the directlythrough their parish.
And I've had a number ofparishes, especially in our
inner city parishes, that havecontacted me and said we'd like
to have a bus and everything,which has been really very good
to hear.
So they'll directly have a busand you know, they will try to
fill it up, you know, at locallyfrom their parish.
And of course, if you knowanyone's is from locally that
they have to fill an extra fewspots.
(13:31):
But nonetheless, I mean there isthe that movement is you know is
happening uh of interest anddesired.
So, you know, either two ways,either through online or through
their parish.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Good.
Yeah, so um so maybe talk aboutthe one day trip versus the
two-day trip, and then maybethat's a good time to transition
to the interview and yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
So the one day trip, you know, you're gonna get there
uh God willing, uh about eleventhirty.
Uh we have the uh you'll enter.
Uh our bishop is very good.
He goes and visits uh everybodyas they come out, and everybody
wants to get a picture with thebishop, so he's there.
Nice group pictures, okay.
Yeah, nice group pictures, uh,you know, and he you know, and
he's so welcome to do that.
And uh, you know, and from therepeople will be able to go in,
(14:12):
enter through the crypt level,uh and you know, that which is
the lower level of the basilica,and they'll have that
opportunity to, you know, engagein, you know, uh several things
that will happen that day.
Um we'll have our welcome thatwill be upstairs, but uh and
then we'll have also the DivineMercy Chaplet.
Uh we'll have people have theopportunity to go for
(14:34):
reconciliation.
Uh so that's always available inthe crypt church.
And uh then we also have uh, youknow, always something a special
theme.
And this year uh ourcatechetical office is going to
have something on the part fourof the uh catechism, which is on
prayer.
So and so they will be downthere, and it will be bilingual.
(14:57):
So if anyone, you know, say, youknow, their first language of
preference would be Spanish,that they'll be able to go to
the uh to a bilingual uh, youknow, presentation on that.
So that will be down on thecrypt level as well.
And then, you know, again, uh beable to go upstairs.
Uh again, that's where thewelcome will happen.
Uh I think we have scheduled itat right at noontime.
(15:19):
And uh, you know, but peoplewill be able to meander
throughout the whole church andbe able to take part in the uh
different things and to be ableto see it.
If they want to go on a tourwith one of the docents that are
located down at the basilica,they could do that as well.
Um so uh hopefully cafeteria andgood books.
And yeah, well, you know what,people like to do that too.
So, you know, so there is, youknow, we have I think there's
(15:41):
120 seats in the cafeteria.
So, you know, we're we're notgonna be necessarily easy to
see.
We'll have to rotate in and out.
But yes, I mean a lot of timespeople want to go to the uh to
the shops.
There's on both sides of thecafeteria, so if the cafeteria
is in the middle, you have theone side, which would be the
bookshop, uh, and you know,really great Catholic books,
good spiritual books, um, andalso uh source books as well.
(16:05):
And then you have uh the giftshop, which would be on to the
right of the cafeteria.
Um so uh yes, they'll have theopportunity to do both of that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
So uh a pilgrimage uh I remember hearing when I was
in the seminary is not avacation, right?
So uh there are you can enjoyyourself, it's a nice way to
spend a day.
Those the that's great, nothingwrong with that.
Uh whether it's the one day orthe two-day.
Um but a pilgrimage is also anopportunity to offer some a
particular intention, right?
(16:35):
You might want to take thepilgrimage for someone else,
someone who's sick, someonewho's a particular prayer
intention, and be ready to makesome sacrifices.
Get up early in the morning,it's a long day, a lot of time
on the bus, you'll get to pray.
Um but um that word sacrifice,to make holy from two Latin
words, uh and and uh to pray forpeace, to pray for our diocese,
(16:58):
to pray for vocations, to prayfor families.
Um we have so much that we canpray for.
And a pilgrimage is a beautifulway to take a particular
intention or two or three, andsay, I'm I'm bringing these I'm
carrying these petitions with meduring the course of the day,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
And just to l you know, you know, Bishop, as well
as everyone, is that people willhave the opportunity in the uh
back of the upper level, uh it'sso basically in the narthex, is
that they will be actually ableto fill out on a piece of paper
that will go into a basket, andthose baskets will be presented
at the closing mass.
At the at the closing mass thatyou're gonna be the main
(17:34):
celebrant at, and uh and uhhopefully we'll have a number of
con celebrants with you as well.
Uh and uh what will happen isthat people will be able to, you
know, that will be presented inthe presentation of the gifts,
and those prayers will be placedat, you know, at the altar of,
you know, and uh so we'll bepraying for all those personal
petitions.
SPEAKER_04 (17:52):
And uh and we carry them with them as pilgrims on
the way down and on the wayback, and especially offering
them at mass those specialintentions.
So that's the one day.
Um the two-day might feel alittle bit more like a vacation,
is uh but and and it'll beenjoyable and uh uh uh kind of a
slower pace because it's overthe course of two days.
But tell us a little bit aboutthose who can join us for two
(18:14):
days.
SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
Yeah, the two-day is also gonna be, you know, we're
gonna be leaving earlier.
That bus will be leaving from uhSt.
Paul Inside the Walls inMadison, uh 205 Madison Avenue.
Um so everybody would be goingthere from wherever they may be
in the diocese, and the the buswill go down.
Uh the fur and it will be makinga stop at the Museum of the
Bible.
Uh you'll first have to.
SPEAKER_04 (18:33):
You'll hear more about the Museum of the Bible
shortly.
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
And so we'll have, you know, you have lunch, uh,
then you'll be able to go on atour of the museum, and then uh
to be able to go on your own uhto different parts, and all of
that is covered in the interviewthat will follow our
conversation here today.
Uh and then after that you'll goto the hotel, check in, uh, and
then we have a banquet withBishop.
Uh so uh so a banquet dinner.
(18:57):
Uh get home, uh get back to yourroom, rest up, and then the next
day you will join in thatone-day pilgrimage with everyone
else.
SPEAKER_04 (19:04):
Um the Yankees might be in the playoffs, but we'll be
able to follow that if we'regonna be able to do that.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
I mean, we're getting into thatthird week.
October 16th, 17th.
We're getting into that thirdweek of the month.
Yeah.
But we'll cross that bridge whenwe come to it, as we say.
Um But uh uh whether it's theone day or the two day,
hopefully uh you can join us.
It's something to do together asthe church of the diocese.
(19:26):
Hopefully, our priests andpastors, I know, and others
leaders are encouraging uhparticipation in people.
But sign up sooner than later souh we know and we can make good
preparations.
SPEAKER_02 (19:35):
Yeah, we there is that's very important, Bishop.
You uh you said somethingextremely important.
In fact, the sign-up for thetwo-day pilgrimage is September
the 11th.
Uh so we really need to havethat number uh in order to be
able to set up the rooms andeverything like that.
So there is really we're runningon time here if you want to go
to make the two-day pilgrimage,and which again a great thing
(19:55):
also if you want to bring yourfamilies.
And again, if you want to bringyour families to the one-day
pilgrimage, uh that is extendedto the end of the month, and uh
you'll be able to go ahead andto do that again either online
or at your parish.
Great.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
So now we're gonna um take a Yeah, so check the
show notes.
We're gonna have all of thisinformation in the show notes as
well.
And um yeah, why don't we go tothe interview that Father
Michael had with Looking forwardto that?
Yeah, for the Q this is FatherMichael.
We'll be back then afterwards tosay goodbye.
So come back after and we'lltalk a little more.
So why don't we we'll go to thatinterview now?
(20:29):
It's Father Michael Rodak withBobby Duke, the curator of the
Museum of the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
I'd like to thank uh Bishop Sweeney for giving us a
little time here to have aconversation with actually
someone who knows a lot aboutthe Museum on the Bible, and
that's uh our guest today, who'sthe curator uh from the Museum
of the Bi uh Bible.
So I welcome you uh Bobby hereto our uh program and uh Bobby
Duke is the curator and uh wewelcome you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
Thank you so much for having us.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
So Bobby, tell us you know, uh I I've been there
multiple times.
Uh it was a great place.
You know, uh original faiththat's my own personal feeling.
But tell us a little bit morewhy people should want to attend
and go over to the museum of theBible and to you know, for us
who's attending our two-daypilgrimage, in which the first
(21:30):
day will include uh the museumof the Bible.
So, what would entice them togo?
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Well, uh I mean our vision of the museum is to
invite all people to engage withthe transformative power of the
Bible.
So even if you mentioned comingon pilgrimage, I mean the museum
inspires people to know theirthe Bible better, but also to
understand its rich andimportant history.
So we have multiple floors,multiple activities that we did
on different levels, and justdraw people in to understand
(21:59):
more.
Of just the uh the incrediblenature of the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
So you say that, and you know, somebody may hear that
and they may say, Well, geewhiz, I don't really know much
about the Bible.
You know, I you know, I wouldlike to get into reading it, I'd
like to get to know more aboutit.
Um, so is this okay for a noviceto go?
SPEAKER_00 (22:19):
Absolutely.
Um, we have so many differentexperiences that uh, like I
said, just touch people indifferent ways.
I mean, we have something assimple as uh a ride over the
city of Washington, D.C., whereyou see where scripture is
embedded in buildings all overthis city.
And it just reminds you how uhimportant scripture has always
been to the United States.
(22:39):
Uh, we currently have an exhibitthat we opened July 3rd in honor
of America's 250th.
It's called Sacred Liberty, andit just shares how 250 years
ago, everybody, whether or notthey were hyper-religious or
not, they knew the Bible.
And it was just part of the uhthe water that was drink and the
air that was breathed in ourcountry.
(23:00):
But we also have a history floorthat walks very uh uh
methodically through uh how theBible came to us from scrolls to
now scrolling.
And uh, we even talk about that.
Today, when we sit on an iPad ora phone, we scroll through
books.
Well, we're just getting back tothe scrolling technology that
they had 2,000 years ago,because we currently have a Dead
(23:21):
Sea Scrolls exhibit that peoplecan also see.
So it is one that um people ofany previous knowledge or no
knowledge, people of uhChristian faith or people who
are just curious, they can findsomething here at the Museum of
the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:17):
Yeah, that's wonderful.
And now, do you have likeanything that's like some you
know original?
You know, I don't know if youknow I would have to say an
original Bible, but I think itwould be very hard to find, but
but do you have any what is someof the Bibles that you have
there that you have uh ondisplay that uh relate some have
some great dating to it?
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yep.
So we have this exhibit with uhthe Dead Sea scrolls that will
be open until September 7th.
Uh then it is actually going tomove to Houston, uh, and it'll
be in Houston for about ninemonths at the air science museum
there.
But uh these actually are partsof scripture that date back two
thousand years.
So we have items that can beviewed right now that were read
(24:54):
by the community by the Dead Seaat the same time Jesus and the
disciples were teaching aroundthe Sea of Galilee.
Umside of that, we have early uhtranslations Greek, Armenian,
Syriac, Coptic.
Uh we come all the way up andthen tell the story of how the
working press transformed theway uh the Bible was uh
democratized and made accessibleto people.
(25:16):
So we have uh of all thosedifferent ages, original texts
that uh highlight that importanthistory.
SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
Now, you have a lot of movable uh that, you know, as
you mentioned, the Dead SeaScrolls is leaving in September,
but uh you have a lot of uhdifferent, you know, things that
you offer.
Uh one of those is that youactually have a Vatican Museum
uh part right there on the firstfloor as you enter.
Um what is something like thatthat people would be able to uh
see?
SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Yeah, so before the opening of the museum in 2017,
we uh formed a uh kind ofpartnership uh with the Vatican.
We have hosted things over theyears uh from their collection.
Uh we currently in that uhgallery, the Vatican Gallery,
have a mosaic floor, which isthe earliest church floor ever
discovered archaeologically.
(26:06):
This is the first place it hasever been displayed, and it will
be here until the end ofDecember, and then it will
travel for a season.
But it comes to us from uh fromIsrael.
Right on that mosaic floor, itactually gives thanks to the
person who paid for the tablewhere you'd have had the
Eucharist to the honor of theGod Jesus Christ.
So the earliest statement of thedivinity of Christ on a mosaic
(26:29):
floor that dates back to 230,and that's in our Vatican
gallery that uh we have setaside for that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
Perfect.
Yeah, that's uh that really isvery interesting.
I mean, and I mean, what aresome of the reactions that you
get from people uh that whenthey see that?
I guess that there must be, Iguess, some awe that that we go,
wow, this is such an awesomething to look at.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Yeah, I love to watch people in the Megiddo
Mosaic because when they realizeit is original.
1800 years ago, early Christianswere walking on that floor and
having the Eucharist.
We get the same response in theDead Sea Scrolls Gallery when
people see the uh limestonetable called the Magdala Stone
that was found in Magdala,Israel, uh the one of the
(27:13):
earliest synagogues we know ofaround the Sea of Galilee, and
quite possibly a uh table thatwas in the synagogue that Jesus
would have visited.
Um, people will say, Is that theoriginal or is that a replica?
We're like, no, that's theoriginal.
And there there is somethingabout being connected to
something of that ancienthistory.
Um, here in our own country, wejust celebrated 250 years, and
(27:35):
sometimes you have to pause whenyou think of ancient history,
particularly anything connectedto the Bible.
250 years all of a sudden soundskind of cute, not uh amazing
when you think of 2,000 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (27:50):
Yeah, absolutely correct.
I mean, there's no doubt.
Uh, and you know, just for thatto be opened up for people to
see uh and to become aware of uhand to grow in their faith, grow
in their knowledge, uh, and youknow, hopefully that will great
do a you know some wonders inpeople's hearts and minds to
have a greater and deeperrelationship.
So that's wonderful.
(28:11):
You had mentioned that thereare, you know, multiple floors.
Um so what are some of the youknow different things on the
different floors that peoplewere able to see?
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
So our permanent galleries are on our second,
third, and fourth floors, andour second floor is what we call
the impact of the Bible.
Our third floor is stories ofthe Bible, and our fourth floor
is history of the Bible.
So most people will actually goto our sixth floor where there's
a panoramic view of Washington,D.C.
Then they'll start working theirway down.
Special exhibits are on thefifth floor, but uh the fourth
(28:42):
floor with history uh goesthrough our earliest knowledge
of scripture all the way up tothe modern digital era and
modern Bible translations.
Our stories floor, which is ourthird floor, it has an amazing
uh Hebrew Bible experience wherein 20 minutes you get the entire
story and narrative of the OldTestament.
(29:03):
It's narrated the whole time byEzra, and you get this sense of
uh the powerful story of the OldTestament.
And I particularly like whenschool groups, when I see uh uh
various school groups that comehere on field trips, because I
know that many of them in eighthgrade or ninth grade, they may
not know the Old Testament verywell.
And in 20 minutes, they have thenarrative arc.
(29:25):
On that floor, we also have aNew Testament experience that
focuses particularly in on apassage from Luke 24 of the road
to Emmaus, and it really talksabout the um uh forgiveness that
Jesus offered.
And then uh the center of thatfloor is a replica that's called
the uh Jesus at the time ofNazareth, uh, or Nazareth at the
time of Jesus.
(29:45):
So it's our uh Nazareth villagewhere we have living history
interpreters, people dressed upin costume that stay in
character, and we'll tell youall about um the grape harvest
and barley harvest and uh thehow to make olive oil.
Uh they'll tell you all aboutwhat was life like 2,000 years
ago as Jesus was growing up andliving in Nazareth.
(30:07):
And then our impact of the Biblefloor, our second floor.
Uh that is one that starts withthe Bible in America to show the
impact the Bible has had inAmerica.
And then it has a section calledthe Bible in the world.
And in that section, differentthemes are picked up.
So we have the Bible inmedicine, the Bible in criminal
justice, the Bible in art, theBible in fashion to just show
(30:30):
how impactful the Bible is onall these different uh realities
around the world.
Um yesterday I actually met witha director of a hospital uh in
the Middle East that has been aChristian hospital in uh the uh
UAE for many, many years.
And he was just telling me aboutuh how their hospital began
because people read scripture.
(30:51):
And it uh it's just thatpowerful moment to see in all
these different areas how peoplehave read the Bible over the
years and then been inspired todo good.
SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
Oh, that's wonderful.
Um, I do have a couplefollow-ups, but I just want to
uh let everyone know if you justtuned in uh to today's podcast
of Beyond the Beacon with BishopSweeney, uh, we're having a
special uh guest today.
Uh and also I am doing theinterviewing here.
Um Father Michael Rodak, thediocesan pilgrimage director,
speaking about our Octoberpilgrimage that will be taking
(31:25):
place uh the 16th and 17th is atwo-day and the one-day uh main
pilgrimage is the 17th to theBasilica of the National Shrine.
And our guest here today uh isBobby Duke, uh, who is the chief
curator of the Museum of theBible.
And we've been discussing somany different things uh with
him today, and very glad that wehave you here with us, uh Bobby.
(31:47):
Um and I want to do just acouple follow-ups.
So, you know, let's go back tothis whole thing, you know, on
the on that floor.
You know, you're saying thatpeople will go into Nazareth and
uh actually like bring them backin time.
People will be in the costume tobe able to talk to them.
What is that really like?
I mean, you know, so you know II mean I've heard already uh
(32:07):
from one of the employees at themuseum that you don't ask them
to take pictures of you becausethe cameras weren't around in
that time.
So tell us a little bit moreabout that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:18):
Yeah, no, the characters will stay in
character.
So if you try to hand them acell phone and say, take a
picture of us, they'll be like,this is such a strange device.
I've never seen anything likethis.
So they will uh kind of stay incharacter.
Um but I would say the one ofthe challenges modern people
have with reading scripture isthere are so many foreign
(32:38):
concepts, or if you don'tunderstand the cultural
background of the Bible, you canuh even misunderstand certain
passages.
So being something in thatvillage, you get a sense of the
fact that uh when Jesus came tothe synagogue of Nazareth uh in
the beginning of the Gospels andwas rejected, you get a sense
that it's a small place.
So people knew each other.
(32:59):
I mean, he's rejected by familyand friends um that uh were
there.
So you just get taken back intime to the to the to the life
and the world of Jesus and thedisciples.
SPEAKER_02 (33:12):
Yeah, I would I would assume that, you know, as
people are walking in there, andyou know, many people who have
never you know traveled uh toNazareth uh and you know having
the opportunity uh to be able tojust see a glimpse of what it
was all like.
I also understand that thechosen had used a portion of
that area for uh one of theirprograms as well.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
Correct.
So we have a uh a uh movietheater basically tucked in
between our New Testamentexperience and our Nazareth
village that is showing clips ofthe chosen all day.
Um we also have another theateron uh fourth floor that actually
will show um these videos by aman named David Stott, who does
(33:55):
this uh journey throughscripture.
And we also right now areshowing uh episodes of the Dead
Sea Squirrels.
Think of squirrels.
There's a there's an animatedchildren series that's uh
written by a Christian uhanimator.
There's videos, books, but it uhfollows these two squirrels that
teach you about uh ancientscrolls, the Bible, the history
(34:17):
of the Bible.
So um again, for uh anyone inyour group who might be bringing
children, there's there's thingsin the museum to actually give
them some time if they don'twant to look at ancient books,
they can then reflect on uh howanimated squirrels can teach
them about the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (34:37):
Well, that's really that sounds wonderful.
And yeah, we do already have acouple uh young people that are
gonna be going with theirparents on the trip, so uh I'm
glad to hear that.
Uh and hopefully uh it willentice others to uh be able to
do this two-day pilgrimage.
And uh Friday is the day inwhich we'll be going to the
Museum of the Bible.
And um this is uh reallywonderful here.
In our last few minutes here, II just want uh you know ask you,
(34:59):
you know, there has been a greatdraw.
Uh I mean, a lot of uhadvertising.
Uh I've seen it in the Metro inWashington, which is the
Washington subway, for those whohave not used it.
Uh I've I've also uh it was uhhad a good prominence uh at the
uh Great American Fair uh backin the uh early part of July.
(35:20):
Uh so there has been a lot ofmovement to try to uh attract
people and to let people knowabout the Bible.
Why is that such and so relevantan importance to people to have
that?
SPEAKER_00 (35:32):
Yeah, so no, we have uh realized that uh the Museum
of the Bible is one of the bestkept secrets here in Washington,
D.C., even though we're in avery prominent building.
Um but again, people can uh justget into their routines and not
realize some of the treasuresitting right there.
So we did around the 4th of Julydo a couple metro stop takeovers
where you could see ouradvertisement everywhere.
(35:54):
Um, but again, we just want toinvite all people in to learn
about how transformative theBible has been.
Uh, everyone probably has apreconceived notion of scripture
that may not be based in anykind of reality or fact.
So we're just putting before uhany of our guests to come in,
whether they are deeply peopleof faith, or if they're uh
(36:15):
questioning and skeptical, well,come and learn about it
directly.
Um and uh read all about itshistory and its antiquity and uh
some of the uh the things thatyou may not have considered when
you just hear the word Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
You say transformative, but would you
also consider it to beimmersive?
SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
No, for sure.
Um we uh we even I would say theNazareth village is one of those
immersive experiences that uhtouch, taste, feel, you can see
it all around you.
Um that Nazareth village duringuh uh the Christmas season, we
actually transformed it intoBethlehem and had a nativity
where uh guests could come inand hear all about uh the time
(36:55):
of taxation 2,000 years ago.
And it really was a goal to um,as people are already thinking
about the nativity, well, let'sput them right into the scene.
So they had to go into thesynagogue and they are also
looking for rooms to stay in.
And it's one where anything wecan do immersively, I think,
helps our guests, particularlyany of our younger guests.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Right.
You have two films that are alsothat are uh one on the old
testament, one on the newtestament, also on that same
floor, if I could remembercorrectly.
SPEAKER_00 (37:25):
Correct.
Yeah, the Hebrew Bibleexperience like has film woven
into it, but you walk throughand then you're being uh uh told
the story of the Hebrew Bible,and then uh again, I already
mentioned the chosen showing,um, and then that film about the
road to Emmaus.
Um, the Washington Revelation isa film, but you're actually
feeling like you're flying overuh DC.
(37:46):
So it is very technologicallyadvanced too that we have not
just signs to read, but alsoexperiences to have.
SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
Yeah, the you know, and when people do that, you
know, they're only gonna get tomore and more knowledge and you
know, and actually almost like alove of the Bible.
And I think would you say thatyou know that is one of the
goals of the museum is to beable to have people leave, not
only to be, you know, have a anawareness of the Bible and to be
enticed to be able to learnabout the Bible, but really also
(38:19):
to love the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
No, absolutely.
I think uh we would love everyvisitor who comes to kind of
move one step down if they comeas a skeptic, that they're now
realizing that I need to lookinto that.
If they come as a nominal personof faith, they're like, wait a
minute, my faith is somethingthat has antiquity and history.
If they come with already a deeplove for scripture, this just
(38:43):
gives them the grounding to knowwhy that is.
So I think we have developed amuseum that can take people
wherever they come and move themto a place where they will uh
love and respect Scripture.
SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
Well, Bobby, I really appreciate all the time
that you've given us here on ourpodcast here for the Bishop and
Beyond the Beacon.
Uh, it has really been apleasure for me to spend some
time with you.
I know that uh I'm personallylooking forward to it.
I know the bishop is also goingto go to the Museum of the Bible
uh as well.
And uh we're hoping that we haveenough pilgrims to be down there
(39:17):
to uh enjoy it and to become notonly the immersive experience,
um, but also uh to find anewness of and a new love of the
Bible.
And I think that that's what'sso very important.
And uh I'm you know trulygrateful for you joining us
today, Bobby, uh, for giving usthis time.
And uh, you know, God willing,uh we're gonna be uh seeing each
other in uh October and uhlooking forward to the
(39:39):
opportunity uh for everybody towalk out of there with that
newfound love of the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (39:44):
Oh well, thank you so much, Father.
And uh do I hope as many peoplewho hear this podcast will
realize this would be a greatopportunity for them to learn
more about Scripture.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
Great, Bobby.
Thank you very much, and youhave a wonderful day.
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
All right, thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (40:07):
Well done, Father Michael, you're a pro.
SPEAKER_02 (40:11):
It was my days that I spent a little time in doing
newswork, so you go.
SPEAKER_04 (40:15):
We got all the news about the Museum of the Bible,
correct?
Things you can see in DC, and uhwell.
Um anything that surprised you?
SPEAKER_02 (40:21):
I know you've learned a lot of it you're aware
of already, but I think youknow, for me, I I've not been to
the Holy Land, so I mean theyhave actually a replica location
there of walking the street ofNazareth, and actually they have
characters that are there.
Uh and as Bobby Duke, thecurator, had mentioned uh during
the interview, is that don't askthem to go ahead and take a
picture with you, okay?
(40:43):
Of you or a selfie with you,because they there is no such
thing as phones in those days.
So uh they actually play thepart of what they what their
role is and what they were doingin that time.
And uh just to be able to seethat I think is really uh is
just very touching, I think.
And uh, you know, it hits home.
It hits home uh because uh torealize that you know this is
(41:05):
the town of where Jesus wasborn, and to have something that
is replicate set that is soimportant.
SPEAKER_04 (41:10):
Like being on the set of the chosen.
SPEAKER_02 (41:13):
Actually, Bishop, the part of the chosen was
filmed there.
And actually people will be ableto see clippings of that from
there.
SPEAKER_04 (41:20):
Um Well, thank you for that, and uh we hope that
many will be able to join us forthe two-day pilgrimage, so
they'll be able to.
I haven't been there yet, andI'm looking forward to the first
time.
Yes, I'm glad to hear thatyou're gonna be coming as well.
SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
Yes, uh, you know, again, sign up for that is very
important September 11th.
Please do reach out uh directlyto the pilgrimage office, uh,
which is located at St.
Drew the Apostle in Hardyston.
Or uh just, you know, again, youcould do it on the website for
the banner uh that goes to thecode.
SPEAKER_04 (41:48):
I see the Paterson.
R C D O P.
Right, right.
And um I think this will be willthis be out by the end of the
week?
SPEAKER_01 (41:55):
Uh yeah, we'll get it out.
SPEAKER_04 (41:57):
Right.
So uh if you're hearing thisbefore August 1st, say a prayer
for uh one of our seminarians,Carlos Vargas, who will be
ordained a deacon this comingSaturday at Cecil's home parish
of uh uh St.
Anthony's in Passaic.
Uh and uh um looking forward tothat.
So uh and uh our seminarianswith our um vocation director,
Father Charlie Lana, and a bunchof discerners are actually doing
(42:21):
uh for the second year um aservice retreat this week, uh,
thanks to our friends at the umLoyola Retreat Center in
Morristown, and um they'restaying there each night but
going out.
Yesterday they visited theSalesian sisters in their summer
camp in North Heldon.
I think they got a lot of rainin North Heldon yesterday.
Um but um but they were there inthe morning, it was fine, and
(42:42):
then they uh had made sandwichesthe night before and were
distributing them to people inneed uh in the city of
Patterson, and they're doingsomething different each day.
And uh good way for Carlos toget ready for his uh uh diaconal
services, he'll be ordained adeacon.
But so we uh pray for them andpray for vocations.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Check the beacon for coverage of these various
events, and all right, so Iguess we'll we'll leave it there
then.
Thank you, Father Baikon.
Thank you for watching.
And thank you all for joiningus.
Please subscribe, comment, andleave a positive rating.
Get to know us better byfollowing Bishop Kevin's
Instagram and Beyond the Beaconon social media.
Read the bishop's weekly columnon beaconnj.org.
(43:19):
Get in touch if you have aquestion for the bishop or a
podcast topic idea, and discoverour other podcasts.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_04 (43:27):
Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (43:28):
God bless you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!