BTE 5.06 Buying Curriculum vs. Writing Your Own: Part 2 with Mike Branton and Patrick Snow

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What if the fastest way to deeper impact isn’t writing more, but freeing leaders to be with people? We pull back the curtain on our content process and share why we’ve built a central writing model that serves multiple campuses while giving local teams room to adapt. Our north star this summer is Ephesians and the identity of a “kingdom worker”—loved, rescued, changed, and sent. That sending isn’t theoretical: we’re equipping students to share their faith after the event and inviting youth pastors to collect stories that spark courage across their ministries.

We also introduce our mission partner, Con Mis Manos in Matamoros, Mexico, a ministry serving deaf students who often face social isolation and limited access to sign language and education. Their story—told through a new film centered on founder Michelle Zúñiga—threads through the week. Students will see Spanish Sign Language woven into gatherings, even joining prayers led by deaf students. It’s a living picture of global kingdom work and a powerful way to practice generosity that honors dignity and presence over programs.

Why write your own curriculum instead of buying it? We make the case for a blended approach: a central writer crafts clear, biblically grounded outlines, campuses contextualize, and volunteers and students share the teaching load. Video teaches some moments, but we always land live. We also set firm guardrails for AI—useful for brainstorming and visuals, off-limits for theology and spiritual direction. Smaller churches can run the same play by equipping a small content team, elevating student communicators, and keeping every talk simple enough to reproduce. When identity begins in Christ and every message points back to Jesus, students don’t just learn; they move.

If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more leaders find these conversations. Then tell us: how are you sending your students this week?

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Brad Warren.
This is Beyond the Event, aYouth Ministry podcast presented
by Christ and Youth, where wehelp you maintain momentum
between the mountaintops.
Our guest today is Mike Branton.
He is one of the uh centralstudent pastors at Sun Valley
Community Church.
Uh, they have several locationsthroughout the Phoenix area.
And uh he and my co-host Patrickand I were going to be talking

(00:26):
about why uh in their context,buying, or no, that's wrong.
Not buying their curriculum, butwriting their own curriculum is
uh kind of the path that theyhad chosen to take.
Um but before we dig into that,I want to just talk to my good
friend, the vice president ofcontent here at Christ in Youth,

(00:46):
Patrick Snow.
I almost forgot your title.
I almost said programming.
That's okay.
That's all right.
It's not right.
Yeah, no worries.
I want to give people a peekbehind the curtain at something
that I think is hilarious aboutthe uh content department.

SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00):
Which is there are five like sub-departments.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04):
Do we still call them the five families?
Do you still use that language?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07):
Well, that we've used that language as kind of
like uh as a meeting ofdifferent representatives of
those different parts of ourcoming together having a
meeting.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18):
You're the mob of CIY.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
I don't know if I don't know if mob is the right
word.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21):
You're the Don Corleone of CIY.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
That's given us way too much uh grit, I think,
maybe.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28):
But I love it so much.
Anyway, um people are alwaysexcited to hear what's going on
in in content world.
It's something that uh to yourcredit and many others, we do
really well here, I think.
And so people are always uhasking a lot of questions.
How'd you do this?
What's coming next?
All those kinds of things.
And just wanted to have you onand chat a little bit about uh

(01:49):
what life is like here onNovember 23rd in in in content
world and see what we're excitedabout.
So tell me, I know that's veryvague, so I'll hone in on it a
little bit.
Um, specifically as we lookforward to move and mix, because
we're gonna have Rob on to talkspecifically about Superstar.
But as we look forward to Moveand Mix this coming summer,

(02:11):
there's a lot that we're stillworking on.
There's a lot that's still up inthe air, not a lot of like
finalized plans, nothing likethat.
But we do have a silhouette ofwhere we are headed.
Absolutely.
Oh and I want to know what youare excited about as it relates
to content when you look forwardto summer of 2026.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Yeah.
Uh very excited about what we'regonna, what our theme is, what
we're talking about.
It's at the heartbeat of uh whowe are at CIY and our mission.
Gonna be the theme is kingdomworkers and really focusing in
on that.
Um, looking at the book ofEphesians, walking students the
summer through the book ofEphesians, and um talking

(02:54):
specifically about uh beingcreated to be a kingdom worker.
Um so very excited about thatbecause you know, well, that's
our mission.
A lot of us get up here in themornings and we come to work
because we truly believe incalling youth to Christ and into
lives of kingdom work.
Yep.
Um so our team's been veryexcited about this and about

(03:15):
this theme.
Move specifically, just talkingas we read through the book of
Ephesians, talking about howkingdom workers are loved,
kingdom workers are rescued,kingdom workers are changed, and
kingdom workers are sent.
And uh something that we'll bedoing this year.
Uh we are currently puttingplans together to um make a

(03:37):
specific call to students toshare their faith this next year
and trying to try to equip themto be able to do that and
understand how to do that, butthen honestly, like you know,
challenging the students thatcome to the move event and the
mix event to leave the event andspecifically do that to share

(03:58):
their faith with somebody else.

SPEAKER_04 (03:59):
This is for most people in their shoes, a very
scary thing.

SPEAKER_01 (04:03):
Very scary, yeah.
Yeah, this is something we didas a staff, if you remember.
Like last year, it was awesome,right?

SPEAKER_04 (04:12):
But it's like, oh my gosh, yeah, I gotta be
vulnerable, and this isn't thedisposition that I normally have
around this group of people.
And that's exactly you know,it's just different, it's just a
different thing.
And so equipping students forthat is gonna be really cool.

SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
But imagine if we even had half of the students
that come to our event take thatchallenge and go share what
Jesus has done in their lifewith someone else, their
testimony with someone else.
Yeah, like it just the impactthat makes and it continues to
ripple forward.
So we we're excited about that,and it's uh it's kind of fueling
some of the plans for coming upthis summer.

(04:49):
Um, as far as that it that goes,that that's it, that's it, move,
but we'll be we'll be doing thesame thing at Mix.
Yeah.
Um uh talking about Ephesians,focusing in on kingdom work, mix
mix that we'll have a little bitmore of a uh music vibe, rhythm
kind of like rhythm vibe orwhatever to kind of center

(05:10):
things around.
So kingdom workers hear God'srhythm, kingdom workers join
God's rhythm, king of work,kingdom workers play God's
rhythm.
It's kind of what we'll betalking with our junior high
students through again, goingthrough the book of Ephesians
and uh and also giving them achallenge to share their faith
this this summer too.
So I love it.

SPEAKER_04 (05:28):
Um are we gonna have I'm putting you on the spot
here.
That's all right.
Are we gonna have a way to getstories back from people about
this?

SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
Hopefully, right?
I love it.
I mean, we're looking at tryingto figure out how to collect
these and how to how to do that.

SPEAKER_04 (05:45):
Uh just for a youth pastor to be able to say, like,
hey, CIY, we had this studentshare their faith with so and
so, and this awesome thinghappened.
It's like, yeah, those arealways so encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 (05:53):
I will tell you this.
I I would hope uh as we as wemake this challenge and students
accept this challenge and theygo out that uh that even knowing
it's coming ahead of time, youknow what I mean, that a youth
pastor could capitalize on thatand even have a testimony night
at their own church.
Yeah, help their studentspractice how to do that, um, and

(06:13):
then come back and like nowlet's have a testimony over the
testimony that you gave withsomebody, you know, and and and
collect they could collectstories that way would be really
powerful.
Yeah, yeah, really powerful.

SPEAKER_04 (06:25):
One of my favorite uh verses in scripture, which of
course I'm not gonna rememberchapter and verse on, but in the
book of Revelation, talkingabout how um the saints overcame
adversity by the blood of theLamb and by the word of their
testimony.
I mean the fact that those twothings are like held hand in
hand.
That's right.
But like Jesus' blood and whathe has done for you, that's how

(06:46):
you make it through this life.

SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_04 (06:50):
That's yeah, good stuff.
Yeah.
And can I think we should dorevelation and move one year?
Revelation.

SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Okay, all right.
We we'll take a crack at it.
Just kidding.

SPEAKER_04 (07:00):
Yeah, no.
It's like uh we'll need Dr.

SPEAKER_01 (07:03):
Shane Wood for that one.

SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Also, move is gonna be three weeks next summer, so
just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 (07:11):
No, we're excited about those, about all of that,
and it's been really fun for ourteam to sit down and um we we
have been digging intoEphesians, but now uh as you
say, November, uh, we're at thelike just late, like figuring
out what the elements are gonnabe and just and figuring those

(07:32):
like at their base, putting meaton the bones.
We'll start building thosethings come next year, but right
now we're just outlining anddreaming and planning.
And so this is the fun part ofthe season.
Just dreaming.
Dreaming.

SPEAKER_04 (07:46):
That is a headspace that I am uncomfortable with.
I'm gonna tell you that rightnow.
I'm too comfortable in theworld.
I know you are too comfortable.
Like you walk into Patrick'soffice and say something, and
it's like, what if this, what ifthis, what if this?
And I'm like, ah, that's right.
Um, but you guys do anincredible job um with all of
that.
I want to talk about our uhwhich you brought up, the that

(08:07):
this would be something good totalk about.
So I'm not, I know I'm notputting you on the spot with
this, but our mission partnerfor this summer.
We always have, uh, for those ofyou who might not be familiar,
always have kind of a missionpartner, a way for students to
engage with what God is doingoutside of the four walls of
Move, outside of the four wallsof their church, kind of
globally.

(08:28):
That's right.
How is he at work?
And we're always kind of likeputting some of those things in
front of them.
I know that our mission partnerthis year is going to be very,
very heavily integrated into ourprogramming in like an even more
profound way than sometimeswe've been able to do in the
past.

SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 (08:44):
And that we're excited about it.
So I wanna I wanna hear aboutit.

SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Yeah, I'll say this.
Um our mission partners are veryintentional as to what you said.
Like this isn't just like, oh,we we just we need to take up
our that's not it.
You know what I mean?
Um when as as we pray about andseek the Lord to bring a
missional partner to us that wecan uh that can be a part of
what we are doing and teachingthroughout the summer.

(09:08):
Students, um, there we have twotwo things that we're looking
for.
And one is is a mission partnerthat can help paint a picture of
kingdom work that we're talkingabout globally, like what's what
you just said, Brad, like globalkingdom work.
And then also someone that weknow uh can allow the students
to be able to practice theworship of generosity towards.

(09:30):
Um, and it's with our missionpartners year after year, it's
been it's amazing to us thatthere's there's not this like
really uh profound process offinding those mission partners.
Like it really is like let'spray about it and the Lord
brings people to us.
And then we watch as studentsconnect with them through the

(09:52):
years and hear about them, wewatch the Holy Spirit do
something in their lives and uhand and join in a lot of times
what those mission partners aredoing, not just financially.
Like it, I I have a boy, a boyin my D group, it literally
changed the trajectory of whathe was planning on doing when he
saw what was happening inIreland.
Yeah.

(10:12):
And so it's uh it's it's just anamazing thing that the Lord
uses.
Oh, yeah.
But yeah, you're right.
This this next year, we'reexcited about our our mission
partner uh is a is a ministrycalled Con Mis Manos out of
Matamoris, Mexico.
And um, this is a ministry thatis working with the deaf
community in Matamoros, Mexico,specifically deaf students.

(10:36):
Um, although the age range ofstudents can be anywhere from a
student that is uh six years oldall the way to they still they
have like some that are in their30s.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 (10:48):
Do I I might be putting my foot in my mouth
here?
Do I remember like for somecultural reason the deaf
community being particularlylike ostracized in Mexico?
That's correct.
More so than maybe they would behere.

SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
A lot so okay.
I'd say a lot so.
What is that?
Uh huh.
Yeah, let me I'll explain it toyou because it's when when we
think of the deaf communityhere, right?
That there are there are lots oflaw laws that protect them.
Um there are lots of policies,procedures that uh companies
have, places have, doctors have,uh you name it, like government

(11:24):
agencies where there there needsto be uh help in them being
communicated to.
Right.
Yeah.
So we know that English SignLanguage is is heavily used
here.
Um in Connis Manos, thecommunication for a deaf student
is very slim.
Um they are it's not somethingthat a lot of the parents of

(11:47):
deaf children are seeking out oreven have a ways or means to
seek out or even learn.
So uh because of that thesestudents are growing up in a
home, in a world that I'm gonnause this word, and it's a it's a
it's the the word's harsh, butit's not they're discarded.

(12:07):
But they're they're notdiscarded because they're not
loved, they're discarded becausefamily members can't communicate
with them, and there's arelational.
Therefore, there is yeah,there's a relational part that's
happening, and there's not a lotof things in place for a family
to learn how to communicate totheir child.
Um, there's also not if if youwere to talk to Conmis Manos, um

(12:32):
you you would learn that there'salso uh a good percentage of
families that even if there wassomething there, because Conmis
Manos does provide like a wayfor uh a parent to come in and
learn how learn Spanish SignLanguage, um, there's also not a
lot of desire sometimes to beable to do that.

(12:52):
Yeah.
Uh so um Camis Manos is the isthe school where these students
can come to the school becausethe education education for a
deaf student is difficult too.
Yeah, there are laws for them.
Um this the Disability Act thatthey have there, but the problem
with that is if there's notsomeone that there's like a

(13:14):
enforcer that can thatcommunicator, if there's not
someone else in that classroomthat knows Spanish Sign
Language, even if the studentdoes know Spanish Sign Language,
and most of them don't, uh thenthat student just becomes an
inconvenience in the classroombecause now that teacher's like,
I don't know what to do withyou, you can't communicate to
me.
Uh, and so education is justdifficult for them.

(13:36):
So Comis Manos uh is a schoolthat helps teach them Spanish
Sign Language, gives them trade,helps them understand uh work
that they can do.
But ultimately what they do isthey show these students that
they are actual people that areloved by Jesus.
Uh and I emphasize the actualpeople part because their

(13:58):
culture sees them as less thanhuman because of this disability
that they have.
And it's a beautiful thing.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful thing.
And so that's that's who theoffering partner is, that's
Comings Manos.
And uh we're gonna we're gonnahighlight them throughout both
move and mix, um, talk aboutthat ministry.
But another really neat thingwe're gonna do is we're we're

(14:21):
creating a film centered aroundthe ministry, uh, but also part
of that film is centered aroundMichelle Zuniga, who is uh the
founder of it and runsKonomizmanos along with her
husband Chewie.
And we get to tell Michelle'sstory, which is like when she
was like a junior high student,she went to the public library

(14:44):
to learn sign language, and theteacher didn't show up.
And so another one of the deafstudents, or or even a deaf
volunteer, came in to try andteach, and it was a train wreck.
And at 12 years old, she waslike, I need to learn this.
And she learned, she began tolearn.
Her mom took her to classes andshe learned uh English sign

(15:07):
language and followed thatthread all the way to what she's
doing now, uh, but not in a waythat she was like, I'm gonna be
a missionary.
She's really funny when shetalks about it.
She's like, I'm not amissionary.
But uh, here is this, here isthis incredible woman that had a
gifting, and then I won't blowthe whole story, but just

(15:28):
followed the doors that openedup, which uh which led her as a
as a single 20-something on thedoorsteps of a church in
Matamores, Mexico, looking at apastor and his wife who did not
speak English, she did not speakSpanish, uh, but they but knew
there was some there was a needfor some deaf ministry, and she

(15:52):
just stayed.
That was 20-something years nownow.
There's a whole school and aministry to this a this uh this
community.
That is so it's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 (16:03):
And she is like the most humble person in the entire
world and just a delight.
Absolutely.
So I'm excited for students tojust meet her.
Yeah, it's gonna be really fun.

SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
And what and yeah, what you were referring to
before is we're also gonna getto integrate those students
through film all throughout moveand mix in in different ways.
So um Spanish Sign Language isgoing to be used throughout the
program and uh even uh have someof the students at Comey's Monos
lead some of our prayer times.

(16:32):
Uh we're we're excited to seehow that goes.
And and I truly believe we'regonna see a group of students, a
portion of our students, umwhose hearts gravitate towards
uh the uh disability ministries,uh and the I think even

(16:52):
specifically de into deafministry ministry.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:55):
That's incredible.
I can't wait to see how it allplays out and what the Lord does
through that, as you're kind ofalluding to.
It's yeah, always crazy.
I mean, yeah, it's always crazyhow he takes our little dreams
and just blows them up and doesincredible things with them.
So um, I'm excited to see howthat goes.
All right.
Um we're gonna go talk to Mikehere in just a second.
Before we do, we have a segmenton the podcast called Mike'ed Up

(17:17):
with Mike, where he just gets totalk about anything he wants.
Okay.
And we get to join in on it.
And it's so fun.
Okay.
So it's time for Mike'ed Up withMike.

SPEAKER_03 (17:27):
This week in World News.
Oh gosh.
A heist at the Louvre.
Oh, I read about this.
I did see that.
Um They didn't get very far.
I I don't know.
Have they have they caught allof them?

SPEAKER_01 (17:39):
Well, I know like the the main from what I
understand, the main thing thatpeople were worried about, like
the crown.
Yeah, they just dropped that.
Oh, I thought it was likeearrings or something.
Was it earrings?

SPEAKER_03 (17:50):
Oh, they they stole a bunch of things.
Oh, there's a lot of stuff.
A lot of extremely valuablejewelry.
Yeah, yeah.
Um let me just like read somesome basic information about
this, Heist, okay?
Okay.
This happened on October 19th.
The entire thing took place inless than eight minutes.
They showed up with a truck thathad a mounted ladder, climbed

(18:13):
that up to the second store,used special equipment to break
through a window to get inside,they smashed the display glass
to get several different pieces,um, and then escaped on
motorized scooters.

SPEAKER_04 (18:33):
Okay.
Tell me, tell me you didn'tpicture uh George Clooney and
Brad Pitt and Matt Damon doingthat.
This does not sound that suave.

SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
This is just like, hey, this is a good match could
have done.

SPEAKER_03 (18:44):
This is a this is a literal smash and grass.

SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (18:48):
The entire amount of time that they spent inside the
actual building was about fourminutes.
Like a very fast operation thathappened one, in broad daylight,
and two, while the museum wasopen.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
It was open.
While it was it was like justopening, right?
It was like at the verybeginning of the right before or
so.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (19:10):
Now, of course at CIY, we do not condone thievery
of any kind.
Not at all.
Um, but you know, I'm not gonnatell you not to watch Oceans 11
if you feel like it.
Um or 12.
But here's the question that Iwant to turn around to you guys.
If you were part of a heistcrew, what role would you play?

(19:35):
I have I have a list that thatGoogle just like was able to,
you know, serve to me if youwould like assistance in coming
up with what role you mightplay.

SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 (19:46):
Do you want to hear the list?

SPEAKER_04 (19:48):
Or do you feel like this is funny because I love
playing board games with you,Patrick.
And we play cooperative boardgames all the time where it's
like you have to be this personand I have to be this person.
It's kind of a heist game wouldbe fun.
Oh yeah.
Do you know one?
Oh, yeah, Burgle Brothers.

SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
Oh yeah, bro.
Oh yeah.
So good.
I love Burgle Brothers.
It's so good.
I don't know what it would becalled, uh, but I'd come up with
a creative way to actually pullthe thing off.

SPEAKER_03 (20:16):
Like that's that's like the mastermind.

SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I guess so, if that's what you call that.

SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
Yeah, I mean the mastermind is the person who,
according to the descriptionhere, orchestrates the entire
operation, including assemblingthe crew.

SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
Okay.
I don't know about assemblingthe crew, okay, but I would be
like, yeah, I'm gonna this ishow we're gonna creatively do
this.
This is how we're gonna pullthis off.

SPEAKER_03 (20:36):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:37):
I do feel like mine might actually be assembling the
crew, like the just thegalvanizing of it all, you know?
Yeah.
Um, but also just likedistraction.

SPEAKER_03 (20:47):
Like, do you need someone to just stand in the
hallway and so there is a thereis a grifter or distraction
role.
It is a voice or con artist whouses social skills to create
diversions or manipulation.

SPEAKER_01 (20:59):
I th I think I'd I could fall onto that too.
You could do that.
Like I could 100%.
I can convince you I'm somebodyI'm not.

SPEAKER_04 (21:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (21:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:06):
Yeah.
And you're great to talk to.
Like, who doesn't want to juststand in the hallway at the
Louvre and talk to Patrick?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
What about you, Pike?

SPEAKER_03 (21:13):
Uh I could see myself maybe doing two
potentially of the things.
I think one uh would be thehacker.
I mean, I don't have any actualhacking skills right now, but I
think, you know, if in the in afantastical, you know, whatever,
um, that would be one of thethings that I might do.
Or potentially the getawaydriver.

SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (21:32):
Um, we had a staff fun day a couple of years ago
that involved driving all overJoplin, and I was the designated
driver.

SPEAKER_04 (21:38):
The fork one.
Um there's there's been multiplelike that.

SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Um, but I on the team that I was on, I I was the
designated driver.
Um not because everyone else wasdrinking.
Not because everyone else wasdrinking.
That's right.
But because you were the personwho was driving because I was
not drinking, is why nobodydrinks our staff Monday.
Nobody.
There was no alcohol part of it.
Um uh but I remember at onepoint we had to make a very fast

(22:06):
um change in destinations, whichincluded a change in directions,
um, which meant crossingmultiple lanes of traffic uh uh
safely, of course, butassertively.
Um and I told the entire rest ofthe van right before I did this,
don't worry, I just beat GTAfive, and then expertly made it

(22:27):
all the way across where weneeded to be so we could um get
the turn.

SPEAKER_04 (22:32):
Uh I'm sure Ryan Claiburn doesn't listen to this
podcast.
But if you do, Ryan, I'm sorry.
Well Also, Ryan's the getawaydriver.
100%.
Oh, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
But not in a CI vehicle.
No, not in a CI vehicle, but inPeichel's scenario.
Yes.
No, you're you're right.
That's fair.

SPEAKER_03 (22:51):
Also, this was a this was a changed man.

SPEAKER_04 (22:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Any law enforcement officialslistening, this is hypothetical,
purely hypothetical.
Um, that's incredible, Michael.
Did they get everything backthat was stolen from the Louvre?

SPEAKER_03 (23:08):
I think they've only been able to uh to recover that
that crown.

SPEAKER_04 (23:12):
Because here's the thing it's like if you steal a
bunch of stuff from the Louvre,what are you gonna do pawn it?
Like everybody in France hasseen pictures of these items and
knows what you know, like whatare you I guess you just gotta
go black market, right?

SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Yeah, I don't even I don't I don't swim in these
things at all.
So I have I have no clue evenhow to answer your question.
Yeah like I don't I I don't evenknow where you would go to sell
it outside of the black market,to be honest with you.
You wouldn't go to a pawn shop?
Just a pawn shop?

SPEAKER_04 (23:44):
I would just take it to a pawn shop?
No, I I wouldn't do that.
You wouldn't I'm saying if I hadlike the thing that people do
with stolen items, I had astorage shed broken into that
had items of similar value tothe Louvre to me in it, and um
somebody stole a a gun that Ihad in there.
Okay, and found it at a pawnshop, and it was at a pawn shop,

(24:06):
found it at a pawn shop myshotgun.
Can you believe that?
All right.
Well, wow, that was a lot.
Thanks, Michael.
Um Patrick, you ready to go talkto Mr.
Branton?
I am all right, let's do it.

(24:27):
Mike, so glad to have you back.
Our conversation last time wasawesome, and I'm really looking
forward.
You're such a thoughtful person,and I'm excited uh to hear what
you have to say about this uhtopic of writing curriculum,
everybody's favoriteconversation.

(24:48):
Right?
We love curriculum.
Um okay.
Uh it doesn't it doesn't soundlike it would make for you know
thrilling radio just sittingaround talking about scope and
sequence and stuff, but um Iactually really am looking
forward to this conversation.
I think it's gonna be a goodone.
So thanks for being here, man.

SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 (25:08):
Um okay, so uh you guys at Sun Valley Community
Church, I want to just kind ofstart by you laying out a little
bit of what you see as thecontext of Sun Valley.
Like what is your guys' kind ofphilosophy of ministry as you
exist in the valley?
And then we'll kind of jump offfrom there, if that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (25:32):
Sure.
So we're a multi-site church inArizona, and so um we have six
campuses and a central team andyou know, some other fun
projects that are like prisoncampuses and things like that,
but we don't have studentsthere.
So for my context, uh sixcampuses and philosophy of
ministry uh is uh relationallydriven.

(25:55):
Um and so we put a lot of stockinto small groups and our
smaller leaders and uh and thenhow that plays out uh in in
different contexts.
So application, we we encourageour students to get plugged in
serving, whether that's insidethe church walls or outside the
church walls, but uh applyingwhat they know uh in their their

(26:17):
walk with Jesus.
And so kind of from a high-levelcurriculum standpoint, uh we
have three major things that wewould we would say we focus on
uh that equal transformation.
So it's gonna be information.
That's that's a given withcurriculum, information,
application, and thenrelationship.
And when you add all those up,it equals transformation.

(26:40):
Um, and so that's kind of wherewe start when we think
curriculum uh at Sun Valley.

SPEAKER_04 (26:46):
So tell me how you're you guys have a large
team, and I know that I'm askingyou uh a difficult question
here, especially for someone whocan't like lay eyes on their org
chart.
But when it comes to writingcurriculum in particular, can
you tell me how that plays out,like on your team?
Is everybody involved in that?

(27:07):
Is there a specific team that'slike dedicated to doing this?
How do how does that all work?

SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, so we have a central content writer um who
gets input from the campus youthpastors, if that makes sense.
So a couple times a year we'llhave uh a few meetings that talk
about hey, what's direction?
What do you think would be uh uhappropriate and where do you
want to go with content withyour students?

(27:34):
And then uh we also have a scopeand sequence where the big rocks
kind of fall in, um, and we'reable to tweak and adjust that.
And then weekly and monthly,there's still like we go back
and forth and say, like, hey,how did this work?
There's so there's still tweaksand changes that happen.
Um, but our heartbeat behindhaving someone centrally write

(27:56):
the curriculum versus uh ouryouth pastors spending hours
behind a desk is that they canuse those hours to then go
relationally invest into theirvolunteers, their families, and
their students.
And so they're still gonna haveto spend a little bit of time
with the content uh because theyhave to deliver it, they have to
make it their own andpersonalize it.

(28:17):
Uh, but the bulk of that isprovided to youth pastors uh
from our central team.

SPEAKER_04 (28:23):
Okay.
And so you that's one person,though.
Like you have one curriculumwriter and then someone for kids
and someone for students.

SPEAKER_00 (28:32):
So it's a couple people, but and they work
together uh on some things, butyeah, one one content provider.

SPEAKER_04 (28:40):
Okay, so let's just dig into this.
We'll start at the verybeginning here.
Why for you is it a priority tohave those two people on your
staff writing curriculum asopposed to, hey, we're gonna go
out in the marketplace and andand purchase something.

SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Yeah.
Um, well, it doesn't mean thatwe don't go purchase things
either.
Uh so I'm a proponent, beg,borrow, steal, buy, like use the
things that are really good outthere.
Um, but for our context, um, wewould take that and put it
through like a Sun Valley filterand we would make it our own,
regardless of if it's fromscratch or if it's, you know,

(29:20):
bought from somewhere and thenadapted.
Uh but really the importance ofhaving those people, it goes
back to that time saver for theyouth pastor.
Um, it's to give them somethinguh tangible enough to where they
don't have to go and do all theresearch that that takes to put

(29:42):
it together.
They don't have to think throughthe flow and all the wording and
and formatting, um, eventhinking up questions for their
leaders.
Now, does that mean when theyget the content, they they don't
add a question here or there, orsubtract a question, or add a
personal story?
Yeah, they still spend Time withit, but it is that time saver

(30:02):
that allows them the freedom togo invest in different areas and
not be stuck behind a desk.
Um the beautiful part of thatthough is they still have input
and they still have influenceover where that goes.
It's not just uh, you know, herego run the play.
Um, they still have the abilityto speak into it.

SPEAKER_04 (30:23):
Okay.
So Patrick, as a creativeperson, super creative guy.
Um what does like how does thisand uh f forgive me, I actually
don't know this.
You've have you ever been onstaff at a church?
Yeah.
Okay.
So you're on staff at a church.

(30:44):
Yeah.
How does the like if you'recreative and you feel like
you're gifted the way thatyou're gifted, how do you feel
like you fit into a structurelike this?
Does that question make sense?

SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
I think so.
Are you you're you're asking meas a creative, if if someone is
handing me the curriculum andI'm and I'm just taking that
curriculum and then presentingit, how how does that how would
that fit in with me?
Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
Yeah.
Uh great question.
The the question I guess I wouldask, and I and I'm glad you
asked this because I had this inmind for you, Mike.
How how how rigid and structuredis that curriculum?
Once that curriculum is writtenuh and then handed off to the
campus, how much flexibility dothey have with that curriculum?

(31:31):
That's what I would be asking asa creative.
I would say, are you asking meto like go word for word, um
follow it, or do I have theflexibility to take this and
then and then creatively use itwithin the context of the
students that I am, that I know?
Like this is the group that Ihave my hard.
And I ask the same, this is thesame question I would have as a
small group leader, by the way.

(31:52):
As a D group leader, I have thisquestion.
That's interesting perspective.
Yeah.
Like here's what I've beenhanded, and I want to follow
what's been taught, but I I alsoknow these students really well.
Can I then contextualize it forthem?
Does that make sense?
That's what I would be asking asa creative.

SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
Yeah, 100%.
So you could go two ways withthis, right?
It could be one way wouldfrustrate you, Patrick, as a
creative, and one way would youwould be like, oh, you just save
me a bunch of time.
It's the, oh, you just save me abunch of time.
So we would provide like, like,let's just take an object lesson
for an example.
So we we create this lesson,we're going through it.
Say it's say we're presentingthe gospel and we're using this

(32:32):
fun creative way with water orsomething.
We would do all of that workahead of time, but Patrick,
you'd be like, oh man, Iactually have this other way
with these like lights that Iwanted to do.
Totally fine.
We're just saying, like, hey,stick with the main scripture,
stick with the bottom line.
Um, and then here is this likeprovided material if you don't

(32:54):
have the time or if you don'thave the creativity, because we
have lots of differentpersonalities, we have lots of
different giftings on our teamsin those six locations.
Um, and so I will I'm happy whenI go around and like look at
different people applying thecontent.
I'm happy when they lean totheir strengths and they've

(33:15):
owned it.
Like that, that's kind of thegoal for that.
Uh, so Patrick wouldn't befrustrated in our system uh
because he he would have theability to adapt, if that makes
sense.

SPEAKER_04 (33:27):
Would you is it fair to call what you provide to your
campus youth pastors like afoundation that they're able to
build upon, or or do you view itmore than that?

SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Yeah, so in I would say in big picture ministry
scope and then even in content,my hope and desire is that it's
a 60-40 split.
Um, so 60% of the time we're allmoving the same direction.
We're using resources wisely andyou capitalizing on the momentum

(34:01):
of that 60%.
40% of the time is like thecampus needs to do their own
thing or contextualize it, orhowever that plays out that
works best for the people thatthey're serving.
And so even that 60% needs to beuh contextualized, but the 40%
they own on events or the nightof week they meet or things like

(34:24):
that that might differ bedifferent from other campuses,
but yeah, there's freedom inthat that flexibility to to
tweak and change and adjust.

SPEAKER_01 (34:34):
I've got a question.

SPEAKER_04 (34:35):
Yeah, I was gonna say it sounded like you were
about to say something.

SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
I have a question.
For for you for the yourwriters, like the ones that
actually create the curriculum,Mike.
What is uh it do you have?
Uh is it possible?
Do you have AI like uhregulations?
Regulation is a little bitharsher word than what I mean.

(35:00):
Policies, maybe, or bestpractices, guardrails.
Uh guardrails.
That's a that's the nice way tosay it.
Perfect.
Guardrails.
Um now I'm picturing Mario Kart,you know, like watered down
because that I my buggy can't gooff the side of the because of
the guardrails.
Like when you're bowling and yougot to go.
Yeah, exactly.
But anyway, Mike, do you guys,or is this a conversation that

(35:23):
you you're like, man, we're inthe midst of this, or like how
much do you use AI to createyour own stuff?
Do you even have a percentage?
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (35:33):
I don't that is a phenomenal question.
I would say it's uh constantlyevolving as as the technology is
evolving and the um that as aresource is is shifting and
changing.
Um, do we use AI?
Yes.
Um I would say the theguardrails that I would put up

(35:56):
with my team are uh when itcomes to like the biblical and
spiritual side of things, um, toavoid AI in those categories
because AI is not spirit-filled,right?

SPEAKER_02 (36:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:09):
Uh you are the you're the pastor, you're the
you know, steward of thisministry.
Don't advocate that to AI,right?
And so when it comes to like thebiblical side of things, please
don't do that.
When it comes to the fun andtime saving and things like
that, uh yes.
Are we are we making you know,verse vibes with AI?
You know, are we are we doinglike crazy logos with AI that

(36:33):
save so much time, but it looksgood and it's it works from a
week-to-week basis?
Um yeah, are we getting maybelike question prompts that we
then filter through a human?
Yeah, all of those are AI, youknow, uses.
Um, but I would, I would morethan a guardrail, I would say
like warning sign, stop, youknow, off limits, this is out of

(36:56):
bounds, do not approach uh thatside of like just advocating the
spiritual direction and uhbiblical context to AI.
I would I would never do that.

SPEAKER_04 (37:09):
But things outside of that, structure, games,
format, yeah.
What like those types of thingsyou're really comfortable?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
Brainstorming type of like using as a brainstorming
tool, those types of things.

SPEAKER_04 (37:23):
That's actually one of the most valuable things it's
provided for me.
It's just like, hey, give me 10ideas for this.
And then, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_04 (37:31):
Yeah, no, that's really cool.
That's a good question.
Did you feel like you I don'tknow if I oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:36):
No, I I understand it.
And it it is like we're the sameway, right?
We we use it, but we are we'rewrestling through, you know,
exact the exact same things ofhow do we use it?
What do we what what should weuse?
What shouldn't we use?
Um, and uh I mean I I 100%agree.
It it will be very easy tobelieve that it's the Holy

(38:00):
Spirit talking to you when it isan AI system, and it is not the
Holy Spirit.
Um I I'm not saying the HolySpirit can't can't talk through
it, but I just there's just Youshouldn't assume that it is.
The word of God, open to theWord of God and me figuring out
what students need to heardirectly from the Word of God is
100% the best practice and whatwe what we stick to as well.

SPEAKER_00 (38:21):
But uh ironically, I was talking to my 16-year-old
today on the drive to school todrop her off.
We were talking about this verytopic because in she has a Bible
class at school, um, and theydid this this experiment of like
they asked AI these prompts, andthen they the like what from
what they were already studyingand they compared, like was it

(38:43):
accurate, was it here on like abiblical uh side of things?
And um, man, even a even like atwo-degree, because it the AI
side for that was was actuallyoff from what they were actually
studying, even that two degrees,it might be accurate in terms of
like, I have the this verse andthe the um you know, maybe

(39:06):
historical context, butliterally one one prompt they
had said, this was written tothese people and it doesn't
apply today.
And my my daughter was like, Iunderstand it was written to
those people, but it does applytoday.
Like they were just like, ah,that's so different, you know?

SPEAKER_04 (39:22):
Yeah, yeah, huge difference, but like on the
page, very, very, very similar.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's why I wonder if therewill ever be like AI models that
are trained from a Christianworldview, you know?
Like if you can because you canpick ensure that's like what
being worked on.

(39:43):
I can right, yeah.
Like Gemini chooses what trainsits its AI model, right?
Yeah, and it's so I wonder Idon't know, that's fascinating
to think about.

SPEAKER_00 (39:53):
Like I know, well, no, I'm not I'm not saying to
the furthest extent of like,okay, Bible Gateway or whoever
like created this, you know,platform, even then it's just
pulling from you know referencesand right, collected
information.

SPEAKER_01 (40:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
That's exactly right.
It it is not a it's not a humansoul giving you spiritual
advice.

SPEAKER_04 (40:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
No, that's exactly right.
Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (40:16):
Fascinating stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (40:17):
Which, you know, what you this is about
curriculum, but we should alwayscontinually help our students
know the number one source oftruth and spiritual truth is
God's word, and then the theleaders it the spiritual leaders
in your life to help you uhinterpret that and understand
God's word.

SPEAKER_04 (40:36):
I mean, uh always vessels of the Holy Spirit.
Always, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
That'll never change.
It's been like that since thebeginning of time, since God
began communicating with thepeople, which I believe happens
right in in the book of Genesisright off the bat.
So, you know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:54):
It uh it is fascinating that we're kind of
like having to develop an ethicof AI like as the technology is
becoming more prevalentnarcissists.
It's scary, you know?
Because like it would be soeasy.
I mean, I'm not insinuating thatthis is or has happened in your
context, Mike, but it would beeasy for the people that you've

(41:17):
hired to write curriculum to diptheir toes into the water that
you're talking about justbecause like they've their the
line is gray about what exactlyit is I should or can do and
whatnot, and you know what Imean, and then eventually that
line can move and change andit's like we have to be

(41:38):
proactive about saying, allright, we believe as a church
that God has uh ordained us tocreate the material that we're
gonna present to our studentsrather than buying that
material, and um like we have towe have to think intentionally

(41:58):
about this and not just let ithappen.
Even actually, well, as I wassaying that I got hung up on it
because like buying curriculum,that's another thing you don't
know is like what are those whatis that company's exactly like
ethic.

SPEAKER_00 (42:12):
Whether it's AI, a a packaged curriculum, even if
you're writing your own, likethere's this I think like
dangerous moment where like ifyou are just relying on
information and not like whatGod is doing in your own life as
a spiritual leader of uh, youknow, in in our context,

(42:35):
students, um you could be justrelying on the God-given talents
that you have and not the HolySpirit, and not uh personal
interactions with with Godyourself, and go up there and
teach the best lesson ever andit fall flat because it is void
of uh you know this likeintangible thing, you know, that

(43:01):
that AI doesn't have and thatpeople can miss.
And so there's this dangerousmoment of of having that that
happen.

SPEAKER_04 (43:10):
All right, Patrick, you have to respond to that
because I'm looking something upon AI.

SPEAKER_01 (43:14):
Just kidding.
I agree.
No, I I mean I 100% agree withwhat Mike is saying, of course.
Um there's uh there is a man,there's a lot of different
dangers and precautions from it.
So this isn't the only one.
There's a lot.
Uh but I I do think it if we'retalking specifically curriculum

(43:39):
like creation, teaching creationusing AI, I think, I think
something that we'll always wealways need to keep in mind is
it is a tool that helps youhelps you do it quicker, that is
for sure.
Um you can do it a lot quicker.
Uh but that I but I still thinkmarinating in God's word and and
and taking the time to do thosethings is going to be important.

(44:02):
And I think there could be uhthere could be a tension at some
point where it's just like, no,I I've only given myself 30
minutes because AI lets me dothis really quick.
And and but I think there's wejust always need to keep in mind
marinating on God's word,speaking to other people about
what it is that we want to teachour students, uh, allowing them
to talk and influence uh whatwhat we what we need to say.

(44:24):
Like I mean spiritual leaders.
Um I think I think that's stillimportant, even though the tool
can allow you to put it togetherquicker.
And I think that's somethingthat um will be good for all of
us to keep in mind that createand make uh teaching for youth,
the youth.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:44):
Um I wanna ask Mike one more question really quick
about kind of the I I want to gjump back in the conversation um
and ask about your um your kindof structure with the the people
on staff.
And then I I want to give you aheads up about this because I
think you're gonna have to thinkabout it.

(45:06):
Um I do want to talk about howuh I want to get to a point
where we talk about how youscale this down, right?
Like I'm at a church and wecannot afford to hire a person
to do this.
Um like I want to just talkthrough that.
But um you kind of talked abouthow you guys it's like if the if

(45:27):
if it's good, we'll borrow it,we'll buy it, we'll steal it.
I don't know what what words youuse there, but um what just
really practically, whatpercentage of the stuff that
comes out of that office at SunValley is we developed this from
scratch versus we had a startingpoint with something that we
purchased or or things likethat.

(45:49):
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (45:50):
Yeah.
So my defensive answer isnothing's new under the sun.

SPEAKER_04 (45:53):
Uh oh no, yeah.
Um that came up on the lastepisode too.

SPEAKER_00 (45:57):
It's like we've been doing this for 2,000 years and
you know, it's it's it's um sowhether it's uh a book someone
read or an idea someone had orwhatever, it it feels like we're
we're just um contextualizing itfor the age and stage of the
people that we're ministeringto.
Um so in that realm, I would Ibut I I truly hear your
question.
I would say um 50-50.

SPEAKER_04 (46:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
If that's fair.
So 50% of it is like us justthinking up like this is gonna
be really good topic ordirection for what we need for
our people.
And then the other 50% is likethese are unchanging things.
What's really good out therethat we can just adapt to what
we're doing, you know?
Um, and so we go on a hunt andwe find some really good stuff,

(46:46):
and then just maybe tweak somelanguage or whatever just to
culturally make it fit.
But yeah, 50-50 would be my mygut.

SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
And when you do buy things, another really just
practical in the weeds questionhere.
Is it um like a subscriptiontype thing that you guys are a
part of that you can pull from?
Or do you just go one off like,oh, this is cool.
We're gonna buy just this seriesor whatever it may be.
Yes.
But all of the above.

(47:14):
All of it.
Yeah, all of it.
If it's out there and we feellike it's what we need, what our
students need, we'll go get it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
And I think this is maybe important to um to talk
about curriculum uh two, issometimes we do video
curriculum, uh, and but we wecreate we create the videos,
like um, we have a studio,things like that, and and
different youth pastors willcome in and film like a week or
a series or things like that.
Um but whenever we do videocurriculum, uh whether we've

(47:45):
created it or purchased it orhowever, and we but we we
integrate the video.
So the video doesn't again,we're not advocating to just a
screen, uh the the spiritualdirection.
Like every time we do videoteaching, we always land it live
with with uh either a volunteerwho's who's been trained to do
that or uh the the pastor of theministry.

SPEAKER_04 (48:09):
Okay.
Thanks for helping us understanduh tr truly what this looks
like.
I'm I'm encouraged by kind ofyour heartbeat for this whole
thing and especially the therelational side that you're like
we I we invest in this becauseit um creates relational space
for uh our campus youth pastorsand those types of things is

(48:31):
just a really cool way oflooking at it that I appreciate.
Um I do, like I said, want totalk about a church of 800
people who's got a hundred kidsin the youth group, one youth
pastor, um one youth pastor whofeels like he should or is
called to uh write hiscurriculum for his his students

(48:55):
or her students.
Um how do some of the thingsthat you're saying contextualize
that way?

SPEAKER_00 (49:05):
Yeah, man, that that is a layered question for me.
Uh because I feel like I have abunch of answers I want to say.
Um baby, let's go.
I kind of want to start, I wantto start here.
Um, anyone, including us, whochooses to like spend the
appropriate amount of time andenergy on writing their own um

(49:28):
curriculum, I I want us to notget the cart before the horse
kind of uh analogy, but I I wantus to understand just me
personally looking back at myyouth group years, all of that
information was so important andfoundational.
But it's not that it's not asingular thing that that I'm

(49:49):
like, oh yeah, I remember thatseries.
No, absolutely not.
Yeah, like you remember thepersonhood, you remember the
leadership, you remember thatvolunteer that was consistent.
Um you remember how they madeyou feel.
Yeah, that walked alongside youin that truth, right?

SPEAKER_01 (50:06):
That is correct.

SPEAKER_00 (50:07):
Um, because because truth is can constantly gonna be
like God's gonna be continuallyworking on you with his truth.
Like that's not gonna come backvoid.
Um, but I also want to cautionuh even our own team and others
that like are like, this is theway we do it, because this is
who we are, and this is how I'mgifted, and all that is so
important, but I don't think wecan make it the main thing.

(50:30):
Um and and that's why itinformation, application,
relationship is information isonly one side of what content is
for us.
It's not the end all be all.
Um, and so just to put that incheck for people that may might
be thinking like, uh, like I'mreally good at this, or this is

(50:51):
my calling, or this is how we doit, I would like to say please
leave a little crack in the doorthat that other things can come
into and affect uh your content.
Um, because the the writing ofit isn't necessarily the end all
be all.
Um so off that soapbox, but butnow to try to help answer your

(51:12):
question, um I would say theamount of energy that's put into
creating it um is not you is notyour job.
Well, we might have an employeeat a larger scale that can do
that.

(51:32):
That employee is still called toequip the saints.
Like he's that person still getsvolunteers involved in what
they're doing.
Just like if you're at a small asmaller church or medium-sized
church that uh you're the thesole leader, paid paid staff
member.
Um, I think you should stillinvite other people in and equip

(51:57):
them and train them and utilizetheir gifts in that content
process as well.
Uh a lot of people I that I knowof skip that step because
they're the paid person to getthat done.
Um, but they'll find the smallgroup leaders and they'll find
the, you know, right.

SPEAKER_04 (52:14):
When you think of volunteering in youth ministry,
you think of being a small groupleader.

SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
Right, right.
Yeah.
Where uh our content person hasa team of volunteers that they
invest into and they rely on.
Um just like I would expect astaff member to have volunteers
for their students today.
So, so I guess my major pointhere is like your job as as
staff, as pastoral staff, is toequip the saints and not always

(52:43):
just to do the work, right?
And sometimes that's harder.
Sometimes you're faster.
You're the AI of their, youknow, that scenario.
You're faster if you just do iton your own, but you're I think
you're missing something in notjust your own process, but the
people around you that God couldbe utilizing in that that
process as well.

SPEAKER_04 (53:01):
Yeah, and like youth pastor, every youth pastor, I'm
sure, has or should haveacknowledged that that like
you're not you probably have aprogram that you want to put on
for your students and you're notlike necessarily gifted in every
single aspect of what you wantto do.

(53:22):
So like if I'm sitting likeputting my youth pastor hat on
and I'm programming uh aWednesday night for my students,
like I'm really confident in myability to teach and to work on
the curriculum side.
I'm not fun, like I'm not a funperson.
Like when it comes to likehaving a game or an icebreaker

(53:43):
or whatever, like that's not meat all.
But like pulling in somebody, Imean that's the church, that's
what it's supposed to be.
But like consolidating that tojust the the small group side of
things in youth ministry, thatis definitely something um
important for youth pastors tothink about.

SPEAKER_00 (53:59):
You may like also tap in and equip your your
actual students to do thesethings as well.
Yeah, train them up in how to dothat and give them the platform
as well.
Um, if if some of my youthpastors had like you know, five
or six weeks where they were theonly ones on stage teaching, I
would have an issue with that.

(54:20):
Raise up those teams, equip yourvolunteers, equip your students
to do that part of it.
And some of it is like, youknow, we feel that weight
because we are the employee andyou know, maybe we might not
have those teams yet.
Um, but if someone can do it 80%as good as you, let's get them
on stage.
Yeah.
Because then that frees you upto do some other things at in

(54:42):
that role that you wouldn't beable to do if you're, you know,
tied to that stage.
Uh, maybe it's a conversationwith a parent uh during
drop-off, but you're worriedabout making sure the slides are
all you know up and ready to gofor for the teaching portion.
Like there's so many thingswhere I would say include more
people in this process of ofcurriculum.

SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Yeah.
And well, go ahead.
Well, Mike, how much how muchwhen you're when you guys are
creating curriculum, how much ofit are you are you thinking,
okay, a student could do thisoutside of the all the time.
So you're just you're justmaking the curriculum in that
way so that even a student couldpick up, pick it up and and use
it.
And how often does that happen?
Do you have a any kind of likeratio that you can think of?

SPEAKER_00 (55:22):
Like weekly, all the time.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (55:24):
So you have students weekly teaching other students
using the curriculum that you'recreating.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:30):
Whether that's you know, uh an older high school
student in the younger agegroups or an intern, um, but
also uh volunteers, not juststudents, but volunteers.
We we try to create those teams.
Um and and at the end of theday, it is harder um to get
them, like it's not gonna saveyou a ton of time to do this

(55:52):
because you still have to put adip different energy into
preparing them to speak than youwould just prepare to speak,
right?

SPEAKER_04 (55:59):
Yeah, but you're letting them flex spiritual
muscles that they've they've gotto flex, you know.
And you talked about it maybeonly being 80% as good as what
you would do, but you give themone or two dozen reps and all of
a sudden they're doing it 120%as good as you were, you know,
and it's like, yeah.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (56:16):
Yeah.
And the kingdom dividends thatyou get from that are huge.
Yeah, they're huge, which I I Iwould say also is a is it is a
place to point like to advocatetowards making your own
curriculum because not thatbuying curriculum is like what
we said, we've been doing youyou do it, you do, you buy
curriculum, but it's not gonnaknow how to create exactly what

(56:40):
you need in that area most ofthe time.
It's it's gonna be a moregeneralized type of curriculum.
So yeah, creating your owncurriculum.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (56:47):
If you handed a packaged curriculum to a
student, right, man, that couldthat could go wrong real quick.
Most packaged curriculums giveyou more than you would ever
need uh in the amount of timethat you have and and what you
would actually want to present,right?
Yeah, and so ours is just pareddown to uh to like a hey, here
here you go.

(57:07):
And it's pretty simple to tofollow the our our curriculum,
even if it's adapted from botcurriculum, you know?

SPEAKER_04 (57:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Um okay, we are uh kind ofhoning in on the end of this
conversation, I think.
But you've said so manythought-provoking things, and my
mind keeps jumping back to likeprevious points in the
conversation.
I feel a little bit erratic, butum, we're just gonna keep moving
forward here for a second.

(57:35):
So um, but I want you to be ableto think about we're gonna wind
down here a second.
So if you got anything else youwant to say, okay, you're you
you're you you're on the clock.
Um I can ask him anything.
But anything you want.
Um one thing that I wanted tonote, you have a 16-year-old.
That's crazy, first of all.

(57:56):
Um, that was just one thing thatpopped into my mind that I
didn't get to say earlier.
That's insane.
Um, but also super cool for you.
Uh what's it like um having alike a lot of youth pastors are
young, you know.
I'm sure many of the people onyour team are young, have young
kids.
How has it changed yourperspective on this, like being

(58:20):
a dad, you know, and saying likethis isn't just for other
people's kids, this is for mykids.
How has that kind of formed yourthoughts on all this kind of
stuff?

SPEAKER_00 (58:31):
Yeah, I have I have uh a high schooler, a junior
higher, and a preteen, uh, allgirls in my house right now.
Yep.
So I have one in kind of everystage of of our next gen areas
uh in students.
And so um, man, it informs me aton because my high schooler is
is teaching in preteen.

(58:54):
Uh my junior higher is teachingin kids on stage, you know what
I mean?
Like so they're they're steppingdown uh in in in teaching.
Um so yeah, to see it play outfrom that standpoint, um, it's
just a massive win when whenthey get involved because it

(59:14):
takes their ownership up, uh ittakes their understanding of the
the actual lesson to a degreethat no one in the audience is
gonna get because they're theyhave to know it so well to teach
it, right?
And so I've seen the benefits ofall that play out uh inside my
own house, which has been reallycool.

SPEAKER_04 (59:32):
That's awesome.
Um do you uh what is yourrelationship like with the
person who writes yourcurriculum for students, like
your working relationship?

SPEAKER_00 (59:44):
Yeah, great.
Uh he he's been in ministry acouple decades.
Uh he knows his stuff.
He's like the one of the bestpeople to do this role.
Uh so I trust him a ton.
Um, and so it's it's really fun.
Fun on my end to just be able togive like creative sparks or
like, hey, have you thought ofthis?

(01:00:05):
Uh, because everything that hethrows out, I I wholeheartedly
trust.
And so I'm not like combinganything or skimming through it
to see, like, is this what weneed to be doing?
Um, so that's been really fun.
Uh and and uh he has the freedomto connect and meet with the
team and get feedback, you know,regularly.
So I feel like it's a reallygood working scenario.

(01:00:27):
But again, someone in adifferent context who doesn't
have a paid role, that's that'sa position uh that you could
seek out a volunteer for uhprobably.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:37):
Or a handful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's that's super great.
Those were kind of the twoloosenes in my mind that I
wanted to jump back to.
Sorry that that didn't flowsuper well.
But uh those were questions thatI had.
All right, Patrick.
You can ask him anything youwant.
Anything anything you want.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:55):
Uh I'll be kind.
Like you're you're like you youjust said, so youth pastor,
leader of youth pastors, uh dadof a of a student that is in
every one of these agecategories that we've been
talking about.

(01:01:15):
If there is somebody that has toteach all of those ages at once,
I'm at a small church and I'veI've got all of them.
Like this is who this is what Ihave, and you were and you could
from your collective wisdom ofjust being that dad and being a
youth pastor, what's the onetopic that you would say, hit

(01:01:36):
this topic?
It it actually would it becauseI know they're all nuanced, but
is there if they if I'm the guythat's just sitting there and
I'm like, man, I've or gal andI've got to teach, I've got to
give a lesson for a fourthgrader through a twelfth grader
because that's who's in my room.

(01:01:56):
What would what should I whatshould I focus on?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:01):
That is a great question.
And honestly, so this is year 23in ministry, that answer has
changed depending on the thegeneration.
Um man, for for that room inthis moment.
I think I would I think I wouldkey back in on identity.

(01:02:24):
I I I just feel like if if theiridentity is found in Christ and
not in in some other thingsright now, uh it might be a
cop-out answer, because it'slike, of course.
Um my 1k topic uh in inside innot identity.

(01:02:47):
Um if you're like, what elseshould we talk about?
Uh I think we've gone through acycle of of students um wanting
to like know truth, like seekout like what does what is what

(01:03:07):
is truth.
I think we've gone through thatthat cycle.
Um I think what what this nextgeneration is wanting to know
because information'severywhere, like with we talked
with AI, like they can lookanything up and get a decent-ish
answer, right?
Um but how to how to culturallyunderstand God's word um would

(01:03:35):
be kind of one A.
So if they understand who theyare in God, then I think next
step is like, how do I, how do Iplay this out um in in the
context I'm in?
Is this if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:49):
Yeah, it totally does.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:51):
So one thing, one thing too that I would add to
our curriculum is likeeverywhere we can is direct line
to Jesus.
And I know that that canactually be difficult when it
comes to curriculum.
Um because well, I don't know ifit's it's not difficult.
I think sometimes it's justoverlooked.
Uh, and we can be like, oh, thisis a great point.

(01:04:13):
But then a student is like, I Igot the the moral point, you
know, I got the I got theapplication of like, okay, don't
lie.
Um, but are you pointing thatback to Jesus somehow?
You know, and so that's that'slike a a key fundamental thing
inside of our context forcurriculum, is that everything

(01:04:35):
should point back to Jesus.
Our bottom lines should alwaysreference, like, oh, this is
tied back to Jesus somehow.
Um, even if we're in the OldTestament, like it should it
ties back to Jesus.
And so uh the Bible that we usein all of our rooms is the
Jesus-centered Bible.
Uh, it always has yeah, youknow, Jesus is in red letters,

(01:04:56):
his like his words, but blueletters in the old testament and
in the new testament are like,oh no, this is pointing directly
back to Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:04):
Yep.
Uh I've never heard of that.
That's really cool.
What's it called?
Jesus-centered Bible.
Jesus-centered Bible, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:10):
Yeah, phenomenal resource.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:12):
Because ultimately it makes complete sense because
ultimately it's the relationshipwith him that will they will
continue to sustain through therest of their lives, even after
they are in our ministries, atour events.
That is what continues tosustain them and walk them
through the life that God hascreated them, their relationship
with Jesus.
Yeah.
I love it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:32):
I cannot think of a single better way to end this
episode than on that note rightthere.
Um Mike, you have given me a lotto chew on.
It's funny because um every timeI have had one of these
conversations for this season ofthe podcast, I'm always kind of
like nodding along.

(01:05:53):
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
You know, like people havethought through these things
really deeply and they makereally, really uh valid
arguments.
And I'm recording this episodeon the same day that I recorded
Anne.
And um, she was kind of on theon the uh purchasing curriculum

(01:06:13):
side of things, but um now I'mhaving an existential crisis
because of both of you.
So thank you for that.
Yeah, uh no, appreciate yourwisdom, appreciate the thought
that you've put into this andthe work that you do at Sun
Valley.
So thanks for being here, man.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:29):
For sure.
Always fun.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:34):
Okay, we're gonna finish up today by having you,
Patrick.
I'm so excited for this.
We did I this deserves abackstory, but I'm not gonna
give it yet.
We'll give it in a little bit.
Um by letting you add someone toour little cork board here and
hype them up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:50):
I get to add someone to this to the board.
Uh crazy as crazy enough, I'madding Mike Branton to it.
What?
I'm adding Mike Branton to it.
Crazy! And the backstory is Ididn't know we were talking to
Mike Branton, right?
So I've really chose I don'tknow where to put this.
Yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:07):
And this is the most awkward.
I botched the scheduling of thisrecording.
So you thought we were talkingto Ann Wilson.
Turns out we were talking toMike Branton, and you had chosen
him as your person.
I did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:19):
So why do you love Mike?
Uh I because Mike has committedhis life to student ministry.
Yeah.
Like it 100% has committed hislife to student ministry and has
had multiple roles.
And and honestly, what what Mikeimpresses me with is he moves to
whatever is needed in studentministry.
So needed he was needed in ahigh school ministry and he he

(01:07:42):
he built an excellent highschool ministry.
Then it was like, hey, pre-teen.
So Mike goes to help build anexcellent preteen ministry.
Uh, and now he's working onpreteen and junior high.
You know, and and not only that,but Mike, he just pours a lot of
time and energy into other youthpastors to help them understand
how to reach the nextgeneration.
And it's just part of his, it'sjust part of his DNA and what

(01:08:04):
he's committed his life to.
And there have been inspires me.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:08):
Yeah, there have been like several stories of
youth pastors who have been kindof like down and out, you know,
had bad church situations orwhatever, that have like gone to
work at Sun Valley under Mike.
And it's like revitalized theirsense of calling and their
passion for the work becausethat is the spirit that he

(01:08:30):
brings to his role.
And he is great.
And I'm glad you chose him, andI'm glad we got to talk to him
today.
Absolutely.
Uh thanks, Patrick.
Thanks uh to Mike for all thework that he does and for being
here today.
Uh, today's episode was producedby Michael Hester, Lauren Bryan,
and myself.
If you liked what you heard, besure to subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
I don't know what we're doing intwo weeks, but I'll be here.

(01:08:53):
So see you next time.