Engineering Efficiency: Redesigning Workflows for Growth with Matt Lewis

Hitting a production ceiling in your business isn't a lack of effort; it is a lack of altitude. Navigating the brutal transition from daily tactical operations to high-level strategic planning is the only way to break through plateaus and scale a company sustainably. Matt Lewis of Lewis Automotive Group, breaks down exactly how he restructured operations and empowered leadership to build a highly efficient, 300-employee enterprise.

We get into the exact mechanics of process engineering, from redesigning physical dealership infrastructure to optimize 4,000 monthly repair orders, to building workflow efficiencies that rival dedicated quick-lube chains. Matt unpacks the critical timing of immersing yourself in the weeds versus getting above the storms to call the right audibles for your team. The real turning point arrives when leaders finally accept the delegation multiplication formula, realizing that a team executing at a fraction of your perfectionism ultimately multiplies your total overall output.

The transition from the initial startup hustle to an established, mature enterprise is heavily demanding and requires checking your ego at the door when early strategies inevitably fracture. We look closely at the heavy friction of handing over the reins, the mental drain of chronic frustration when standards aren't met perfectly, and the harsh realities of de-escalating highly explosive customer disputes. You will walk away with a tactical framework for active listening and a "drain the swamp" conflict resolution method that directly converts your angriest critics into your fiercest brand advocates.

If you care about process optimization, scalable leadership, and building bulletproof operational efficiency, you’ll get a lot from this. Please Subscribe to the channel and Share this conversation with a fellow founder who needs to step back and look at the big picture. What is the most difficult daily task you know you need to finally hand off to your team but haven't yet?

Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
Here's what I've been excited about and and why I
was listening to one of thepodcasts I reached back out to
Mark and I said, Hey, let's seeif there's a time for me to come
on.
There's plenty of things wecould talk about.
But I think we all know eachother well enough that we can
have like a really goodconversation.

SPEAKER_06 (00:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:17):
Where most podcasts go like you're just interviewing
and extracting information andkeeping it going.
You guys disagree with me.
Call me out.

SPEAKER_04 (00:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:25):
And like so we really give the audience
something to grab a hold of.

SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
Yeah.
I think this is a great way tostart.
Okay.
First off, there's very littlethat I anticipate I'll disagree
with.
Right.
Okay, that's the one problemthere.

SPEAKER_05 (00:49):
But there's gonna be something that I'm gonna bring
up.
Let me forewarn you about this,okay?
Let me forewarn you.

SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (00:54):
And I couldn't find the title of the podcast because
I tried to go back and listen,because this is where I got the
idea from.
Is you guys either tipped into asubject, I don't know if it was
the first year or the end oflast year.
My time runs together.
Okay.
Yours probably doesn't, but minedoes.
Um where you talked aboutworking in the business versus
on the business.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:14):
And it's very controversial.
And I love that.
I think it's a great topicbecause we are gonna get in the
weeds on that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
All right.
Love it.
We are.

SPEAKER_05 (01:25):
All right.
This show is started.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27):
And I have to leave it five till the end of the
house.
What?
I'm sorry, I have to.
I got a lunch meeting with the.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35):
Well, last time he knows showed on it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:38):
That's hair.
So this is I'm doing betterhere.

SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
He did that to me.
He did that to me.
I'm ten minutes late.
So we're all off on a good starthere.
Hey, but this is Big Talk aboutbusiness.com.

SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
And we're here today with Matt Lewis.
Uh I I don't know exactly whathis title is now, but he runs
Lewis Automotive Group.
And it's a fantastic, it's thebest auto dealership and many
other things.
Ever in the entire state andprobably the world for that

(02:16):
matter.
Um, but in any case, Matt is abrilliant guy.
I've watched his pretty much hisentire career at Lewis
Automotive Group from the timehe joined the business.
In I've just witnessed anincredible like a father.
Like a yeah, like a like adaddy.

(02:38):
Oh man.
What an intro.

SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
What an incredible trick.

SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Thank you.
No, the transformation of thatbusiness over the last 18 to 20
years under your leadership.
I mean, it's it's really beenamazing, honestly.
Um, so I I commend you for that.
But um, so I know Matt wants totalk today.
The guy I bring him into myclasses every year.
He's always one of the top-ratedspeakers, usually the one my

(03:05):
students write about.
Yeah.
Because I don't get you all thetime.
They like you too.
Okay.
Thanks, Daddy.
You're kind of crazy.
Matt's just brilliant.
That's great.
But the uh, but no, he's alwaysgot a lot to offer, and and I,
and I found that I've used a lotof the things that Matt talks
about in real in my classes inreal life.

(03:27):
He's a very practical guy andhe's a great manager.
But I know, Matt, uh, one of thethings you want to talk about
today is working on yourbusiness versus in it.
And you're a fourth-generationbusiness, you got probably 300
employees, give or take.
What do you want to tell usabout that?

(03:47):
Well, number one, thanks for theintro.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (03:50):
And I've but I told you guys where this started.
I was really excited aboutcoming on today.
And we we've all spoken before,we've all been on podcasts
together.
But because we know the ins andouts of each other, we can
actually talk about, well, hey,you're talking about that, and
I've seen that happen.
Mark, you've seen during thedifferent phases of my growth
career-wise, when I would justchange, you know, the subject

(04:13):
stayed the same when I wouldcome to your class, but it might
have evolved a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
Oh, you've evolved, definitely.
You know, as we go throughthere.

SPEAKER_05 (04:21):
Sure.

SPEAKER_01 (04:21):
We're all learning, hopefully, every day, right?
Oh God.

SPEAKER_05 (04:24):
I'll first say, you know, you talk about the the my
position and what is that.
I don't even know that this isrelevant.
But I'm now in that somebodyasked me that the other day, and
I was like, I've got to decide,do I call myself the president
or do I call myself the CEO?

SPEAKER_04 (04:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (04:40):
Either way, I'm running the business.
Right, exactly.
Or the janitor at some times.
Yes.
You know, that's working in thebusiness.

SPEAKER_02 (04:48):
That's you were willing to do that.

SPEAKER_05 (04:51):
All right.
That's right.
But I'm excited to talk on hereto share with others what I've
learned along the way, what youguys have learned the way to
hopefully help them.
Yeah.
Because I don't know about youguys, but where I'm at in my
career is this dictionary of allthese people I've learned from.
I'm not the smartest person outthere, but I find those people.

(05:12):
Uh hell yeah.
And I continue to find newtables to sit at.

SPEAKER_03 (05:17):
Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_05 (05:18):
Depending upon the phase that I'm at in my career
or with construction, I knewnothing about commercial
construction.

SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
You know a little bit now, though.

SPEAKER_05 (05:25):
I've got a very expensive education.

SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
You did your homework, though.
I mean, just that's a greatexample.
I mean, your dealership, howmany different businesses did
you visit before you we lookedat a hundred in person.

SPEAKER_05 (05:40):
It was a 10-year planning process.
Wow.
But we really dumbed it down.
And when when we go into thisstuff, if you think I'm gonna
talk at a doctorate level, yougot the wrong guy.
And I'm really blessed to beable to say, hey, let me find
something really smart, and letme really dumb it down so
everybody can understand it.
Because when you look at allyour employees, if they can't

(06:01):
grasp a hold of it and theydon't understand it, how are
they ever gonna put it in place?
And how's your business modelgonna work?
100%.
So when we were looking atcommercial construction, I said,
okay, I have no clue.
I built up, built a couplehouses, but this is a whole
different monster.

SPEAKER_04 (06:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (06:14):
Number one, we got to figure out what we're doing.
Let's assemble the right team.
So over 10 years, I interviewedall the architects, all the
civil people to try to make surethat they were meeting with what
our goals were, what were ourgoals.
And then we went and looked atover a hundred businesses in
person.
So every family vacation, myentire family knew either
planned or impromptu at leasthalf a day, we were going to

(06:36):
look at businesses.
Yeah.
And they weren't just allautomotive.
You know, we got a ton from BlueCross with Shield up here, a ton
from Walmart, a ton from, youknow, we couldn't go to Google,
but we studied all of theirspaces for their employees.
We studied workflow, efficiency,a customer that comes.
You know, we're in Fayetteville,so there's 30 plus thousand
students that come every yearthat they're not from here.

(06:59):
They all drive.
So how do we make them feelcomfortable when they pull into
the dealership?

SPEAKER_04 (07:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (07:04):
You know, not like, where do I go?
What do I do?
I just need help with my car.
Sure.
And when you pull into ourdealership, there's one
entrance.
Yep.
And when you pull in the oneentrance, if you don't turn, you
will land in the servicedepartment.
You will.
You'll land in the garage.
In the garage.

SPEAKER_04 (07:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (07:20):
And that's intentional.
There is zero service parkingout front.
And let me tell you why that is.
And Eric, you'll like this.
We found at our old location,customer would come in for
service, they'd park outside,they'd walk inside, find a
service advisor.
Well, the process on a serviceadvisor is to go back out to the
car, meet them, walk around,write down the concerns, see if

(07:41):
there's any damage, so on and soforth.
Well, that was cumbersome andnot a good process for the
customer.
They find a place to park, theygo inside, they go outside, they
go inside.
What is going on here?
Let's eliminate parking, make itwhere they have to pull right in
front of the service advisors sowe can take good people and make
them great by baking theprocesses into the

(08:01):
infrastructure.
And there's glass there.
And it's glass, and which wayare their offices facing?
Straight out on the servicelane.
So car pulls in, they're staringat them, eye contact, all glass.
Go take action.

SPEAKER_03 (08:13):
Yeah, experience as a customer there.

SPEAKER_01 (08:15):
100%.
Beyond that, now the they havesystems in place that'll tell
you whether you need new tiresor you need an alignment.
You draw through speed, and youknow that you're already being
taken care of.
Yeah, it's like this upgrade.

SPEAKER_05 (08:28):
So what we found throughout the years, and at
that point in time when we weregetting ready to move, is you
know, we had 120, 140 employees,and then we were scaling up to
300 is we said, there's only somany superstars out there.
There's only so many peoplethat'll really care that much
about your business.
And the ones that do, they'reprobably not going to be with
you for a long, long time.

(08:49):
That's true.
They're going to take their ownideas, you know, which you want
to support them.
They're going to take their ownideas, find a platform and grow
it on it, whatever it may be.
So, how do you take good peopleand make them great?
That's installing fantasticprocesses that make people take
action.
So we just remove some of thosevariables.
So when we would pull into otherdealerships, and if it was

(09:11):
around here, I took a core groupof people and we pulled in, I
said, Don't tell me about thecars, don't tell me about the
colors, don't tell me how greatsomething looks, show me how to
get to service.
We've never been here.
We're pulling in Oklahoma City.
How do I get to service?
Because a customer, you say,Well, Matt, why are you talking
about service?
You got all those cars out frontto sell.
Well, a customer services theirvehicle three times a year.
They buy a car about every threeyears.

(09:32):
That's a nine to one ratio.
Exactly.
And the stats show that ifyou'll take good care of them in
service, you're 80% chance morelikely to sell them the next
vehicle.
Oh, sure.
So why don't we engineer thewhole thing around that?

SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Smart.
Well, you I mean, that's justone example of the planning that
you put into this whole thing.
I mean, it it's it's reallysomething else.
I think, you know, I was luckythat you gave me a tour before
you opened and you could reallysee how it all was going to fit
together.
I mean, it it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_05 (10:02):
My brothers give me a hard time because they'll see
me going on a tour and we willhave given tours, but uh they'll
say, all right, is this gonna bethe 30-minute tour or the
two-hour tour?
Yeah, yeah, right.
And it depends.
I read my audience.
Like, hey, are they reallyasking questions about how's the
efficiency here?
So on and so forth.
And I know we've gotten offtrack here, but I think it's

(10:22):
important that there are timesas a leader you do need to get
into the details.
Yeah, yeah.
You do need to yourself whenthere is an X factor.
I agree.
And what I mean by that Xfactor, let me give some numbers
here, okay?
If I had not paid attention tothe service write-up process,
that would have affected 4,000repair orders per month, 48,000

(10:45):
times a year.

SPEAKER_03 (10:47):
Yeah.
Damn.
Okay, so digging in that alittle bit more.
So the the the service orderprocess.
Yes.
Which means exactly what?

SPEAKER_05 (10:56):
So that means if you bring your car in for something
as simple as an oil change,yeah, your check engine lights
on, uh, something's happeningwith your car, you need wipers,
you need tires, anything to domaintenance or repair on your
vehicle to keep it on the road.
We write what's called a repairorder, which we call an RO.
So between the stores, we writeapproximately 4,000 of those a

(11:18):
month.
Jeez.
And if you look at the ratioagain, when you look at our two
stores, they're actuallyflip-flopped.
And the reason that they'reflip-flopped is so the service
drive is in the middle.
So when you pull in, you eitherveer left for Chrysler Dodge G
paran or you veer right forFord.
Right.
Why did we do that?
4,000 repair orders.

(11:38):
It's really important to look atthe facts when you make a
decision, not emotions.
4,000 repair orders versus 5 or600 cars sold in a month.

SPEAKER_03 (11:48):
Yeah.
So you want your traffic flow togo where the volume is going.
Yes.
Now, did you look at ChryslerDodge versus Ford on who which
one of those brands is havingmore sales order than the other?
For sure, Ford is.
Because when I pull in, I go,Yes.
It's more of a keep going alittle to the right to get to

(12:10):
Ford, but you go more to theleft to get to Jeep.
To get to Jeep.

SPEAKER_05 (12:14):
Um now the position of the stores, that that's a
whole nother conversation.

unknown (12:18):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (12:19):
But we knew that the plan is for CDJR then to grow
where Ford is.
We knew that Ford wouldinitially have the biggest gain.
Because to rewind the tape alittle bit, our previous store,
Ford, was 25,000 square feet.
Okay, and we had about 14, 15service bays.

(12:40):
CDJR was 17,000 square feet andhad 10 service bays.
So you had about 50% morecapacity at the Ford store.
Plus, we had been there longer,our customer database.
We got the Ford store in 46, theCDJR store we got in the mid
80s.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (12:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (12:55):
Um, both stores now are 44,000 and some change.
They are identical stores.
Really?
That comes out of Walmart'sbook.
And the reason that is if you goto Destin, Florida, Chicago, or
Northwest Arkansas, the supercenters are the same.
They could be flip-flopped wheregroceries are and home goods.
No, you're right.
And the reason is twofold here.

(13:16):
Number one, as a customer, youhave to feel comfortable where
you're doing business.
You ever walk in somewhere andlike you're looking around just
to try to get your bearings?

SPEAKER_06 (13:22):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (13:23):
Like, what do I do?
Where do I go?
And until you feel comfortable,you're not going to spend your
money, you're not going to buildtrust there.

SPEAKER_03 (13:29):
That's right.

SPEAKER_05 (13:30):
Um, so so that was important to us.
So the the stores are differentcolors, different furniture per
manufacturer because we'refranchise dealership, but it's
the same.
The offices are in the samelocations, you know.
Like I said, it's within 10,maybe 20 square feet of each
other.
Wow.
The other piece to that is ifyou want a great customer
experience, you got to focus onyour employees first.

(13:50):
So our employees, what happenswith employees?
They get sick.
Yep.
Okay, they go on vacation,they're tired.
They have PTO, they're tired.
Some of them no show.
Yeah.
Like, let's just be honest.
If I need to move an employeefrom one store to the other,
they know exactly whereeverything is.
They know exactly what the desklook like, what the process is.
It's not a hundred percent plugand play, but it's about as

(14:12):
close as you could get.
So they can pick up the ball andkeep running.

SPEAKER_03 (14:16):
So on this uh order form again, so like you you
talked about the the entry andthe volume of the customer
coming up, but did you get intothe weeds of like customer comes
in, I need an old change.
Yes.
And did you actually get intowhat does that form look like
that the that the technician isfilling out or the service desk?

SPEAKER_05 (14:36):
So you you bring up there there's two pieces here.
One of the pieces you didn'task, I'm gonna go into, but let
me first answer your question.
Um, our software is evolving toobecause we went from about 2,300
repair orders a month to 4,000.

SPEAKER_06 (14:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (14:51):
So so you find out really quick the processes you
had, while they were wildlysuccessful in the past because
they got us to the new location,right?
May not get us to where we wantto go.
Ah yes.
And people get stuck in that.
They really do.

SPEAKER_04 (15:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (15:09):
And it's like, well, why reinvent the wheel?
We've been in business for 75years, we've been here forever.
You know, don't mess somethingup that was a good thing.
Well, if it's not scalable, ifit doesn't line up with where
you want to go, check your egoat the door.
Let's be humble, let's figureout how to evolve.
Amen.
So we don't have all thatfigured out in software yet.

(15:31):
Okay.
So let me just tell you that.
Um, we're getting better at it.
But we did do is remove oilchange from the main shop.
So when we studied that, we saidthat's our highest frequency, is
people getting their oilchanges.

SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (15:48):
Um we said, who's the best at it?
Who's the best at it?
It's not dealerships.

SPEAKER_01 (15:53):
It's one hour oil change.

SPEAKER_05 (15:54):
It's one hour.
It's take five, it's Valvine.

SPEAKER_03 (15:57):
Sure.
They found a gap in the market.
Dealers weren't doing it well.

SPEAKER_05 (16:01):
It's Walmart.
It's yeah, you know what wefound when we because we mystery
shop everybody.
Like all the time.
I'm on everybody's email list, Iget leads from everybody, we
check prices on alignments andtire.
That's just what we do.
What we found was there wasn'tan oil change place out there
that was less expensive than us.
Really?

(16:22):
They were actually moreexpensive and they use less
quality products.
Wow.
So we offered more value.
We did a free alignment check,we wash your car, we do a
multi-point inspection.
Our technicians have to gothrough way more training than
the quick oil chains.

SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
Yeah, I believe all of that.

SPEAKER_05 (16:41):
We pay more, okay?
Our oil filters and our oil isall at a different spec than
what you get at the other store.
So why were people going there?
Convenience.
Convenience and speed.
Exactly.
Now the perception was that itwas less expensive to, but
that's that's not once you gotthere.

SPEAKER_03 (17:01):
Well, they there, I would say convenience speed, and
then on the perception side, Ibet transparency had something
to do with it.

SPEAKER_05 (17:08):
It does.
And that's a big buzzword.
That could be a whole notherpodcast that we'll come over
time into.
So don't get me down because Istill got something good to talk
about.
Um but let's get back to what westudied and what we saw there.
So we would just sit there andwatch.
We took our personal cars tothose places and went through
the process to learn fromothers.
Like, quit spending 20 yearstrying to figure out something

(17:30):
that you can read a book, listento a podcast, or just go do
yourself.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (17:34):
No kidding.
That's right.

SPEAKER_05 (17:36):
You know, just take their ideas, rip it, make it a
little bit better, and implementit.

SPEAKER_01 (17:40):
My thing with those oil change places, I dread it
when my girls take their carsover there, be like, I want to
whatever, I won't name anynames.
I'm like, they're gonna try tosell you an air filter.
Yeah.
You do not need one.
Yeah.
Bring your car home.
I will blow it out with mycompressor in 10 seconds and put
it back.
And then the next thing we hearis, I got a$178 bill.

(18:03):
Why is that?
Well, they said I needed a newair filter and showed it to me,
you know, and it looked dirty.
I'm like, dang it.

SPEAKER_05 (18:10):
So the other thing.
Besides looking at that, wesaid, okay, how did they get
their speed there?
It should we put in pits?
Should we have drivers?
I have pits, a lot of them.
What should we have?

SPEAKER_02 (18:23):
They do.

SPEAKER_05 (18:23):
We ended up putting in these quick lifts that don't
have arms.
You actually drive over the topof them.

SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
Right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (18:29):
This shop is is it's not disconnected, but it's it's
up against the other one.
And it's got four bays in it,and you can pull all the way
through, you can go around theother side.
We removed anywhere where therecould be a bottleneck for
getting the car in and out.
So it can do four at a time.
We went to a two-man team, whichis what the aftermarket does.
So you have a two-man team doingeverything.

(18:50):
These quick lifts are 50% fasterup and down to get them there.
We piped all of our oil throughall the systems, so they have
pumps and they go straight inthere.

SPEAKER_03 (19:00):
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 (19:01):
Fast.
So we so we're gaining fiveminutes here, gaining three
minutes here, gaining anotherfive minutes here.
You know, where our old chainsused to be an hour and a half,
we now can get one out.
And our goal is not to get to 15minutes.

SPEAKER_04 (19:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (19:13):
We said, hey, if the customer knows they're getting a
better product, it's just got tobe out of respect for their
time.
Let's get it 30, 45 minutes.
Sure.
You know, because we're washingit too.
Yeah, did all the rest of it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:25):
Yeah, they can't do an alignment check at those
places.

SPEAKER_03 (19:28):
They don't have the equipment.
But guess what?
As a customer, it might take alittle longer, but I know one
thing's for sure, I have abetter environment to wait in.

SPEAKER_05 (19:35):
That's right.

SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
Well, yeah, and maybe I'll clean.

SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
I got maybe I'll get a new F-150 when it's there.

SPEAKER_05 (19:40):
You don't have to sit in your car or on the bench
outside.
Yeah.
And not only that, you know, wewe plug every vehicle in.
So if it's got a recall, if it'sgot software updates, any of
that stuff.
It's boom, boom, boom, boom,boom.

SPEAKER_01 (19:52):
Yeah, that's a really big difference.

SPEAKER_05 (19:54):
So that that's another thing.
So we removed it from there.
We worked on the write-upprocess better, we did a better
multiple inspection.
We're getting there.

SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (20:02):
And just being transparent and honest, we're
not where I want to be yet.

SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Ever.
Well, you're never going to bemet with anything because you're
an optimizer.
Yes.
Okay.
This is a guy, he he he worksall the time and he's thinking
about how he can improve all thetime.

SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
Always improving.

SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
Which is the key to the success, right?
Being satisfied with the statusquo means you're unmotivated in
my mind.

SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
Have y'all experienced so this is good
because I experience continuousdaily, always on frustration.
Constant.
Not meaning like I'm frustratedat people.
Well, maybe I am a littlesometimes at people.
Oh, yeah, sure.
But I'm always frustrated thatwe didn't do it exactly the way
it could have been done right.

SPEAKER_05 (20:45):
So I really struggled with that for a long
time.
And I still do some.
And I read a book called TheMotive.

SPEAKER_03 (20:53):
The motive.

SPEAKER_05 (20:54):
The motive by Patrick Linciani.
Okay.
Oh yeah, that's his last nameright.
Yeah.
So the motive really helped meto understand and recalibrate my
expectations.
Now I was really concerned aboutthat because I was like, I'm
adjusting my expectations for mybusiness.
Why should I do that?

(21:14):
Why should I do that?
But what I found is, you know,every leader you listen to out
there, they're like, empowerothers, or you can't scale, and
there's only so much you can do.
The trap is, is that you likegive a little bit here, but
you're watching over the top ofit, and they'll never do it 100%

(21:34):
of what you would do.
And those are unrealistic,realistic expectations.
I lived in that world for 10,12, 15 years.
I did.
So I'd give it to them, and Ihope you guys are laughing
because you've been there.
And then you end up going backand you, if you want to do
something right, you got to doit yourself.
No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
That's a bad trap.

SPEAKER_05 (21:55):
Because you can't scale.

SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (21:56):
You can't scale.

SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Well, like you you you've said in my classes.
If you had five people doing 80%of what you can do, you're just
still doing 400% of what you cando on your own.
Five times 80 is 400.
No, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 (22:09):
So that's what they talk about in the motive.

SPEAKER_01 (22:11):
I think that's a really cool is understanding
your own expectations.

SPEAKER_05 (22:14):
Understanding.
So you recalibrate and you go,okay, if I can get 70 to 80%
production out of somebody else,and I can manage five plus
people there, now I get a 350 toa 400% X.

SPEAKER_03 (22:29):
So it's a it's a it's about not being dissat,
it's about not being, you can'tbe dissatisfied with the lack of
100% to be happy with the 80,70%.
That's correct.
And because it's a multiplyingformula.

SPEAKER_05 (22:42):
It's a multiplying formula.
What you can't lose is thenon-negotiables.
But you gotta like narrow downthe non-negotiables and go,
okay, we still got to get to thegoal.
Okay, are we doing thisethically?
You know, are we doing thishonestly and legally on how we
would do business?
Sure.
Sure.
You know, and and I was sitting,I was sitting in church one

(23:04):
weekend and and the pastor saidthis and it made a whole lot of
sense to me.
He goes, you know, there aredifferent paths to the top of
the mountain.

SPEAKER_06 (23:10):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (23:10):
And as long as you get to the top of the mountain,
if you got another leader inyour business and they're not
going your exact same route, aslong as they're not sitting
there like circling the bottomof the mountain and not starting
to climb, right?
Who cares?

SPEAKER_04 (23:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.

SPEAKER_05 (23:25):
Now I did for a long time because I'm like, you need
to go the exact same path I did.

SPEAKER_01 (23:30):
What's wrong with you?
Yes.
I want to, okay, now I want togo back to this working on the
business versus in it becauseyou have definitely done both.
I know that one of your keys tosuccess was you were willing to
do any job.
The employees recognized thatabout you and respected you for

(23:54):
that.
Okay.
We all, you know, you talk abouttaking the trash out.
I mean, at the last company Ihad where I had an office, I was
the guy who dragged the can backin.
Uh sure.
You know, because other peoplewouldn't do it.
And I was trying to set a goodexample and go, like, I'm not

(24:14):
too good to do that, right?
Mm-hmm.
So talk about what you want totell us there.
Because you have done every job.
And you do get in the weedssometime, or at least you used
to.

SPEAKER_05 (24:25):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Um, I've been on both sides ofit.

SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (24:29):
And I've learned a whole lot.
And it's it's it's kind of abuzzword.
I don't know if you guys havenoticed that, but especially the
start of this year.
Hey, you're working on yourbusiness or you're working in
your business.

SPEAKER_01 (24:40):
All we hear about constantly, everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 (24:42):
So if you ask me what I should do, let's start
there.

SPEAKER_01 (24:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (24:46):
Both.

SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
Yep.
Yes.
Agreed.
You got yep.

SPEAKER_05 (24:49):
If you don't do both, you're caught in one of
the extremes.
Yes.
Okay.
I started my career, and and Ihope this resonates with a lot
of people.
This is a tough thing to do.
Most people, including myself,got to the position they're in
by working in the business.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
Being good at doing something, right?

SPEAKER_05 (25:10):
Involved in everything.
Sure.
Walking, fixing problems in theminute, you know, shaking every
hand, knowing the employees, notasking them to do anything you
wouldn't do.
By example, always beingpresent.
Yes.
Like I mean in the weeds.
And you gain tons of tractionthere.

SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (25:29):
You do.
It's how you learn the business.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
It's how you learn the things.
And how you get respect frompeople.
It is a factor.

SPEAKER_05 (25:36):
And you can reach a pretty high level of success
with that.
But then you will slam your headinto the ceiling.
And I don't care how much youtry to punch through, you'll
just knock yourself out.

SPEAKER_04 (25:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (25:50):
You can't punch time in the day until you rise above
your business.
Once you rise above yourbusiness, that's called getting
altitude.
Once you get altitude, if we goto the aviation and you get
above the storms, you can seewhat's going on.
That then allows you to work onyour business.

SPEAKER_04 (26:10):
Yes.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (26:12):
If you don't rise up and you're not working on your
business, you will max out onhow you grow your business and
opportunities within yourbusiness.

SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
True.
But you got your business to acertain scale before you came to
that conclusion.
This is the thing.
What kills me is when I see likefive-person companies or
ten-person companies, andthey're like, I've got to work
on my business and not in it.
And you do like freaking windowwashing or something.

(26:42):
No, no, no.
Okay.
I'm just strategizing aboutwindow washing.
Somebody needs to be out therefreaking washing some windows.

SPEAKER_03 (26:51):
That happens a lot in this in this whole venture
startup culture.
Oh, it does.
I teach you to work on it, buildthe strategy, then you get the
funding, and then they can'tthey can't lower the plane back
into below the because you'vegot to get that thing landed and
start taking off again andlearning how to fight those
winds and that storm.
And you've got to be in it.

SPEAKER_05 (27:11):
You got to be in it.
Got to.
And there's a there's anotherguy I listened to.
I don't know if y'all listen toCraig Rochelle or not.
Craig Rochelle, fantasticleader, uh, that talks, and he
talks about that.
And he talks about it on hisstartups.
He was in it, in it, in it.
I mean, so was I.
And it grew, but I was like,man, why can't I bust through
the next part?
Because I wasn't working on it.

(27:32):
So let's look, let's give someadvice to the people that have
five employees.
Okay.
All right.
How can they juggle both ofthose?
Well, first, you just need toget started and immerse yourself
in the business.
In the business.
Okay, you got your funding, youhad your idea, now put it to
work.

SPEAKER_03 (27:47):
I would say, Matt, that is as a lead as a owner or
whatever your leader, such ahard transition subjectively.
It's easy to say it, but whenyou like let's say you did pitch
deck, go get your funding.
Yes.
Now you got your funding.
Dude, you don't have much timeat all.
You better you better flip thatover to the end.
You better.

(28:07):
Like with a hard flip, not a I'mgonna do it in two, three.
No, no, no, no, no.
The second you get that freakingwild.
Now in a hundred, would you saya hundred percent?

SPEAKER_05 (28:20):
That's right.
So I I like to relate things tosports, and I don't know tons
about sports, but the reason Irelate things to sports is a lot
of people talk about sports.
Sure.
And I want to connect withpeople with what makes sense and
what resonates with them.
So then I told my brothers theother day, I said, so I listen
to more sports just so I knowwhat's going on.

(28:40):
So let's talk about sports inthis instance.
So you sent all your highlightreels, you went into the draft,
you got drafted.
Now you better go to work andshow up.
Yeah.
Amen.

SPEAKER_03 (28:52):
Draft day's over, baby.

SPEAKER_05 (28:53):
Draft day's over.
The highlight reels are done.
Nobody cares about your collegehighlights anymore.
Absolutely.
They're like, what you can't dowork is show me.

SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
You got to play ball now.
That's right.

SPEAKER_05 (29:09):
All of it.
So that's the same thing inbusiness.
Okay.
The idea, all right, you gotbuy-in.
That honeymoon period is comingover.
Now you've got to prove toeverybody that it'll actually
work, that you'll put in thework so it'll grow legs.
So we're not talking aboutworking on it for that startup.

SPEAKER_01 (29:30):
Right.
Right.
Exactly.
And and let me just say when itcomes to that startup, and we're
talking with a lot of people,uh, you know, a lot of our
audience, they've got thesefive-person companies,
ten-person companies,twenty-person companies,
whatever, they're small, right?
It's big talk about smallbusiness.
So they they've they've gotthese these these small

(29:51):
companies, and they almost allhave the same problems.
I I see this every time mystudents do their consulting
projects with these companies.
They they all they've got thesame problems.
Their accounting sucks.
They don't know what makes moneyand what doesn't make money.
They do absolutely no marketingwhatsoever, and they tell you

(30:13):
that word of mouth is the bestmarketing, and they hire people
as cheap as they can and doabsolutely nothing for them
whatsoever, and then go, I don'thave good people.
Okay.
Now, I just I just describe 95%of the small businesses out
there.
Yeah, they operate like that.

(30:33):
How do you get these people tounderstand that if you want to
go from this five or 10-personoperation to the 300-person
multi-generational company thatoutlasts you to do some of these
things, Matt?

SPEAKER_05 (30:48):
Well, number one is what really happens is exactly
what you said, but then the keyfactor is they're still trying
to work on the business insteadof in it.
So they can't identify, they'velost connection.
Yeah.
So you have to you have todescend in order to get
connection.

(31:09):
Yeah.
Now, we'll talk about a biggerbusiness here in a little bit.
Let's stay on the five person.
So they're in the business andthey're evolving, and they're
humble enough to go.
What I thought we were gonna dolooks different.
And it's okay.
Yeah.
My ego's at the door.
What the goal is, is to makethis business successful.

SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Exactly.
And rarely do they follow theplan that they started out on,
right?
You almost always I gotta gosports again, okay?

SPEAKER_05 (31:39):
The the best quarterbacks out there, what do
they do when they get to theline?
They read the defense.
Of course.
They call an audible.
They don't just run the playbecause that's the play they
said they were gonna run whenthey see a blitz coming and
they're gonna get sacked justbecause they thought their idea
was the best and they won't takeanother idea right here.

SPEAKER_03 (31:59):
Yeah.
That is so good.
I mean, that's so good becauseyou can get in that that that
strategy trap.
You go out, you have an idea,you build a strategy, you go
pitch, everybody's everybodybuys in, you get the funding,
now you're in the game, and youdon't feel as the leader that
you have, you said it, the thethe ownership to call the

(32:23):
audible.
You have to call the audible,and you have to go back to your
investors.
You better explain to them I'min it, I see it, we gotta make
it audible, or we're freakingscrewed, and you have to fight
for that buy-in.
And by the way, the investorsare investing in you to lead the
comp their wealth or theirinvestment into greater return.

SPEAKER_05 (32:42):
To lead the company, and I'm gonna cross over a
couple things here, and I'llland this plane.
You may start with your idea,and it will get the brain going,
it'll get the business going,but it might not be the best way
to do it.
Somebody else in your company isgonna have a great idea.

(33:03):
And they may not be at the samelevel as you.
That's okay.
Yeah.
And and we talk about this andwe talked about this in your
class.
How do we make a family businesswork?
And one of the things I talkabout, I said, well, when my
brother Shelby or Taylor, ifthey have an idea that they're
passionate about, and I see thatit's gonna, like we've talked,
and like it's gonna work and itmakes sense, I don't take the

(33:25):
idea from them.
I support them.
And all my employees see thattoo.

SPEAKER_03 (33:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (33:31):
I take a backseat and support them and let them
take the lead on it.

SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
100%.

SPEAKER_05 (33:36):
If you do that with an employee in your business,
you want to talk about somebodythat'll run through walls for
you.
That's right.
You know, who cares?
I don't care if the spotlight'son me.
What I care about is never beenlike that.
Can I help all of theseemployees accomplish their
goals?
It's the old, you know, it's theold Zig Ziggler quote.
Yeah.
It says, help enough othersachieve what they want, and

(33:59):
you'll achieve what you want.
That's right.
Yeah.
So, like you want buy-in fromyour five-man team.
One of them comes up with agreat idea, announce it in your
quick meeting in the morning,and say, Hey, Bob's gonna take
the lead on this.
You support Bob, and then Bobmaybe becomes the supervisor on
that.
He's got ownership and buy-in,which allows you to scale and

(34:19):
you find somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
That's right.
Well, let's go back to familybusiness, though, for a minute,
because I think that's somethingthat your business has done
extremely well.
Um, to make it to the fourthgeneration.
You and I have talked about thisbefore.
What is it like 3% or somethinglike that?
Yeah, I got under 3%.
Ever businesses ever make it tothe fourth generation.

(34:41):
And I know, you know, a couplethings that I've learned from
you is number one, not allfamily members automatically get
a job or a paycheck.
That's fundamental.
Is that number one?
Oh, 100%.
Yeah.
And and and number two, I mean,you just mentioned, you know,
Taylor and Shelby.
They've got their roles.
It's not like uh all three ofyou are a three-headed monster

(35:03):
trying to do.
They've got their defined rolesthat they have to function in.

SPEAKER_05 (35:08):
They do.
And you know, you you talk abouttwo, and and you've seen me for
years now, decades, and I'm nowin my 40s.
I started in the business, youknow, like real deal job,
management job, and when I was22.
Yeah.
It was it's been 20 years ofgrowing to be able to run all

(35:29):
the locations and all thedealerships.
Yeah.
Was I frustrated in my 20s andlow 30s that I wasn't in that
position yet?
Absolutely.
But that's what drove me.

SPEAKER_04 (35:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (35:42):
So any of us in the business have gone through each
of the areas, have grown ourskill sets, our maturity in
business, gained some wisdom,and been patient to be ready to
go.

SPEAKER_03 (35:58):
You know, and I think the going back, you have
to go work in business in thoseareas to know that's where the
wisdom's gained is when you'rein it.

SPEAKER_05 (36:08):
You don't have to be the best.
Right.
And what I thought growing up,it was like, I need to be the
best in every single department.
No.
And you know, when you whenyou're 17, 18, 19, 20, you know,
you're full of it.
You're just full of it.

SPEAKER_03 (36:22):
I love the ignorance back then.
It was great.

SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
It's just like, no, I know it all.
Get out of my should be the CEO.

SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
But you think that's the famous Mark Twain quote.
I'm sure you've all heard.
It's like when he was 17, hethought his dad was the dumbest
guy in the world.
When he was 25, he couldn'tbelieve how much he'd learned
over the last eight years.
His father.

SPEAKER_02 (36:43):
Something to that effect, right?

SPEAKER_03 (36:45):
But when you it's crazy how much of my dad grew.

SPEAKER_05 (36:49):
But you do have to work in it too.
And this is what I was meetingwith one of our managers
yesterday, walking him through.
He's taking a new position.
I'm helping him grow.
And I said, you have to knowenough about it to ask the right
questions to gain the respectand get answers that you need to
be able to work on the business.
Sure.
Take our accounting departmentfor a minute.
Like if I picked a position inthe dealership that I wanted to

(37:12):
do, like accounting's not myforte.

SPEAKER_04 (37:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (37:15):
I understand it.
I pass the accounting classes.
I can tell you how the numberswork.
I can find the numbers.
But to sit there and plugnumbers into journal entries
every single day and runschedules, I'm out.
And our controller and our CFO,they're way better at it than I
am.
But I know enough to ask theright questions because I'm

(37:36):
trying to solve an issue overhere that they don't think like,
man, he's stupid.
His last name's just Lewis, andthat's why he's in the position.
Yeah, okay.
Same thing like our dieseltechnicians.
I know enough about working oncars that I know the difference
with injectors and lift pumpsand this and that.
But to turn me loose on one ofthem and fix it, I only work on

(37:58):
my own things because if itmesses up, I can only blame me.
But I know enough to ask theright questions.
Yeah.
In marketing and SEO and social.
I can't write my own code.
Yeah.
But I can have an intelligentconversation with somebody that
says, hey, I'm not going to pullthe wool over this guy's eyes.

(38:18):
He he knows what's going onhere.
He he knows about click-throughrates.
He knows about time on sites.
He knows the X amount of clicks.
We decrease 20% every time wemake a click.

SPEAKER_04 (38:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (38:28):
You know, I mean, he understands all this.
And you only get that by workingin the business.

SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
Amen to that.
Let's talk about working in thebusiness, though, for uh on
another level.

SPEAKER_05 (38:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
One of the things I think that you've really
excelled at is you're a greatsalesperson.
You are not the um necessarilythe most um extroverted person I
know.
People probably think you are.
Yeah, I would think you are ano, he's not.
His real nature is make it tillyou make it, bro.

(39:00):
Smoke and beer.
Hell yeah.
But so, you know, you startedout in this car business, you've
sat there and listened to peoplearound the kitchen table or
dinner table, right?
Your whole life, and then youget in it, and everybody knows,
you know, that the car business,I think it's it's decreasing
over time.
But you know, car salesmen had abad reputation.

(39:22):
It was it was not a thing thatthat you know people looked
forward to.
I always loved buying cars, soit never bothered me.
But you have changed.
You you know, over the last 20years, I think it's changed a
lot as to how you sell.
What what do you think some ofthe keys are to people selling

(39:43):
anything?

SPEAKER_05 (39:43):
I mean, you you know, so it it's no different
than software.
Let's talk about software.
Okay.
Yeah.
You're trying to solve a problemfor somebody.
Yep.
And in order to do that, youmust first do some discovery and
understand what the problem isthat you're trying to fix.

SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
Yeah.
So I don't just tell themeverything about the vehicle,
right?

SPEAKER_05 (40:08):
If you try to sell because you have the gift of
gab, we've talked about this.
I won't hire people becausetheir mom or their grandmother
said, Hey, you've got the giftof gap calls.
So many times.

SPEAKER_01 (40:18):
You wouldn't hire Parker Dotson in 30 times.
I have heard that so many times.
I had somebody say that to melast week.
Did you really?
But that's why they sell.
They've got the gift to gab.

SPEAKER_05 (40:27):
So let me throw this out and you guys can wrap your
head around this.
And it's the stats are actuallyhigher than this now, but this
is a stat I use.
It's a few years old.
The average vehicle has 20,000moving parts on it.
Wow.
Okay, it's probably reallycloser to 30,000 now when you
get all the technology in it ofnon-moving in those pieces.
So if it has 20,000 parts, theaverage customer has about three

(40:49):
hot buttons or motives on whatthey care about.

SPEAKER_03 (40:53):
Yeah.
Can I try to guess them?

SPEAKER_05 (40:55):
How?
Sure.
Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 (40:57):
Color?

SPEAKER_05 (40:58):
Could be.

SPEAKER_03 (41:01):
Speed, safety.
Yeah.
Those are those are definitelytwo.

SPEAKER_05 (41:04):
Yeah, those are in there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
Oh, speed, safety.
Reliability.
Okay.
Utility value for what theirfunction is.
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (41:11):
Fuel mileage.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (41:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (41:13):
Towing capability, appearance, sound system.

SPEAKER_03 (41:17):
Oh yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (41:19):
Capacity, whether that's towing capacity or
interior capacity.

SPEAKER_03 (41:23):
That's right.
I mean, people can e-haul.

SPEAKER_05 (41:24):
And let's kind of lump all this together.
The service or the peace ofmind.
Maybe their car's out ofwarranty or in warranty.

SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (41:34):
You know, we're all car people in here.
Yeah.
But there's some people whoscares them to death.
They're never going to opentheir hood.
Yeah.
So, like, why are you openingthe hood trying to explain where
all the floods go?
I'm bringing it back to you.
You fix it.
That's right.
What do I care?
So if you do not figure thatout, and so I have, I teach,
I've got 20 product selectionquestions that I teach that I go

(41:55):
through.
And I never go through all 20with somebody.
But what I'm trying to do is totank, let's call this a blank
sheet of paper.
I'm trying to fill this out forEric.
So I did a meet and greet, weget to know each other.
I need to fill out this blanksheet of paper before I ever
think about trying to sell yousomething.

SPEAKER_03 (42:13):
That's right.
I need to know what your motiveis.
I need to.
Ask questions.

SPEAKER_05 (42:16):
Because I might care about fuel economy, how many cup
holders it has, and is it stillunder warranty?
You're like, how fast does it goto zero to 60?
Do I look cool in it?
And does it have a subwoofer?

SPEAKER_03 (42:26):
That's right.

SPEAKER_05 (42:26):
And those are two different people, but they're
both.

SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
Eric right there.

SPEAKER_01 (42:29):
That's him.
He's all about subwoofers.

SPEAKER_03 (42:32):
No, bro.
I'm all about towing capacity.

SPEAKER_05 (42:35):
So to you, to you, I don't need to talk about the
fuel economy.
No.
Will it pull 40,000 pounds?
I don't care if it gets fourmiles a gallon, it's me, bro.

SPEAKER_03 (42:46):
That's right.
Dude, it is the best vehicle, bythe way, ever.

SPEAKER_05 (42:49):
So but the mom that's expecting her fourth kid,
she doesn't care about towingcapacity.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
But but see, all that in my mind changes the
image of salespeople.
Like you said, you're just aproblem solver.
You're an advisor.
You're not you're notaggressive, you're not trying to
get them to do something that'snot in their best interest.
So here's the key to that.

SPEAKER_05 (43:12):
We've established what you need to be to be a good
salesperson.
But not everybody is that.
How do you do it?
You ask questions and youlisten.

SPEAKER_04 (43:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (43:22):
If you don't, and you know, you guys ever get that
question, and it's like theage-old question they ask people
when they're on a panel.
Hey, if you could go back andtell your 20-year-old self
something they should know, whatwould you tell them?
Oh, I got listening.
I would, I I would just like ata basic level, I'd say be a
better listener.

SPEAKER_03 (43:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (43:40):
And we could go, we've talked about this around
like I can go down rabbit holeswith the colours.

SPEAKER_03 (43:44):
What about like relations with your wife and
stuff like that?
Be a better listener.
Matt, Matt's quite a light.
He just freaking just ball me onthat one, man.

SPEAKER_02 (43:53):
Now let me tell you, he's the quick study.
Now, he's a he learned fasterthan you and me.
Listen, we're still trying tofigure that out.

SPEAKER_05 (44:03):
Now, can I tell you how I learned that?
I found somebody that's smarterthan me.
So my wife was going throughsome counseling, and one day I
said, Yeah, I said, Hey, do youwant me to go to this counseling
session with you?
And she said, Sure, will you?
And we get there, and we'regoing through all this stuff,
and then I'm a problem solver.

(44:24):
Yeah.
I I I fix problems.
I'm a solution-based positiveperson.
You're going to fix it.
I'm going to fix it.
I think what's coming out of hermouth as the man of the house
and the husband, I need asolution.
Yes.
And that's why she married me.
Yeah.
So the counselor looks at me andsays, Matt, sometimes you just
need to listen.

(44:46):
And I was like, what?
Well, dude.
And she's like, sometimes yourwife just needs to vent.
I said, okay, we need a keything that she can tell me.
So all I have to do is sitthere, and you don't think of me
less manly or as less of ahusband.

SPEAKER_03 (45:01):
Big deal.

SPEAKER_05 (45:02):
I'm telling you.
And so now she goes, I need youto just listen.
So I just sit there.
Yeah, that's so painful.
Well, you know, man.
Most of the time.
Sometimes I still mess up.
So the the whole moral of thatis, is like I was okay and
humble enough to go to thecounseling session with her to
learn from somebody smarter thanme.

SPEAKER_04 (45:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (45:24):
With a customer, I ask a question, not to respond,
but to listen so that I cansolve an issue and I can get to
the goal line quicker.
If a customer has a complaint,and hopefully this will resonate
with you guys because we we'veall talked on the phone before
about issues going on with ourbusiness and hey, I need help

(45:44):
with this.
I listen first.
I don't just all of a suddensay, well, this, this, this, and
this happened.
I listen, I repeat what thecustomer says, I ask them if
it's anything else.
No matter if we were the wrongor the right, I apologize.

SPEAKER_01 (46:02):
That's such a brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 (46:03):
So the customer feels heard.
And then I just got to give thistip, okay?
Because this is so dangerous.
Now only if only a few peopleare gonna do this, okay?
So let me just tell you.
This is a master class.
Pay attention, listeners.
But if you do this, you will beamong the best of conflict
resolution.
I want to be one of the best.
Okay, so if you drain the swampand Eric is blowing up on me

(46:26):
about this issue going on, heyEric, man, I'm sorry to hear
about that.
I apologize for the way you'retreated.
Yeah.
I'm sorry this didn't get fixed.
Was there anything else?
And he's like, Yeah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, whoa, man, that'sa lot.
I'm like, so besides blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, is
there anything else?
I must stick the thermometer inthere first and make sure that

(46:48):
the swamp is drained before Iput the car and drive.
Okay.
Okay.
And when it's done, here's thelast piece.
And I don't care if they'veF-bombed me on the phone for 30
minutes.
I got really thick skin and Iknow it wasn't about me.
Yeah.
They're just having a bad day,and instead of taking it out on
their wife, they took it out onme.

SPEAKER_04 (47:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (47:07):
Okay?
I said, Eric, first of all, Ijust want to thank you for
taking the time to call and letme know about this issue.
Because I can't fix anythingthat I don't know about.
And second, I want to thank youfor being so calm.
If I was in your position, Iwould have been a whole lot more
upset.
When they've been F-bombingthem, I love this.

SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
This is great.

SPEAKER_03 (47:32):
Now I've been heard.
Yeah.
I feel like that they appreciateme.
And I actually did a good jobcommunicating with them.

SPEAKER_05 (47:38):
Even though if you didn't, even though you were
horrible.
That's right.
And if the customer that'sF-bombed you and called you
everything under the sun, guesswhat?
They've done that to 10 otherbusinesses.
And if you can win them over,some of my best advocates out
there for business are the oneswhere we got in the mud.

SPEAKER_03 (47:56):
That's right.
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (47:58):
And deep down, because nobody else wanted to
deal with them.

SPEAKER_03 (48:00):
That's right.
Yep.
And now they finally got heard,and you are the best business
that's ever existed.

SPEAKER_05 (48:04):
I had, can I tell you this?
And then I know you got to talk.
So I had this Australian guy,really big Australian guy.
And I mean, this guy, people ranfrom him, okay?
I mean, just bar fightingAustralian.
All right.
And we got, I won't say hisname, but we went through a
couple of these, and he's araving advocate for me now.
In fact, his niece came and sheneeded a cash car, okay?

(48:25):
Yeah.
Needed like a$3,000,$4,000 car.
We all know what a$3,000 or$4,000 car is.

SPEAKER_04 (48:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (48:29):
And it was an older focus with like$200,000 miles on
it, okay?
And he's out there showing it toher, and she's like, oh, the
bumper's hanging down and thisand that.
He gets under it with zip tiesand zip ties it up.
Hell yeah.
It says it's about thepowertrain and it drives good.
I'll fix this up.
You go inside and sign thepaperwork.

SPEAKER_03 (48:49):
I love it.
Hell yeah.
I personally have to go.
Y'all keep going.
Yeah.
No, I have to I have to go tolunch.
But y'all should keep talking.

SPEAKER_01 (48:57):
Well, there's one other thing I wanted to talk to
Matt about related to this.
But I gotta I gotta go.
Okay, well, go.
Out the door.
We'll see it.
Just see, go away.
Dang, man.
Go away.
No, we're gonna wrap up.
We're gonna rest.
Yeah, no, we're gonna restart.
We're gonna wrap this up, okay?

SPEAKER_03 (49:17):
Good to see you, brother.
It was.

SPEAKER_01 (49:19):
So, one thing that, you know, back on this asking
question stuff that you said onetime, and it really struck a
chord with me.
Okay.
It was like if you went out todinner with somebody, let's say
there's another couple, and yourwife's like, we need to go out
to dinner.
And you go out to dinner withthem, and the guy just talks and
talks and talks about himselfthe whole time.

(49:41):
He never asks you like, well,where'd you grow up?
Where did you what did you do?
What do you like?
You know, they don't ask you asingle question.
Do you want to get back togetherwith them again?
No.
No.

SPEAKER_05 (49:53):
You don't feel like you were connected at all.

SPEAKER_01 (49:56):
That is that has been such a pivotal thing.
I've told so many people that,and I really just got it from
you.
It's like, if you want to makepeople like you just ask a lot
of questions.
You may tell them nothing aboutyourself, but in the end,
they'll be like, boy, thatMatt's a great guy.

SPEAKER_05 (50:15):
You know, that happens.
And then the say we were talkingabout selling, and how do you
figure out how to sell them?
We got to ask questions tofigure out what their hot
buttons are.

SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (50:23):
If you and I go to dinner and I don't know you
really, yeah, I gotta figure outwhat to talk about that you're
even gonna care, and we canactually have a conversation
about.
So I better ask some questionsto figure out what are your
hobbies?
What are you into?
Exactly.
How long you lived in this area?
Yeah.
You know, what type of work areyou in?
So then I can go, okay, here'swhat we're gonna talk about.

SPEAKER_01 (50:43):
Yeah, exactly.
It's such a great tool.
It is.
It blows my mind, okay?
And you've said it before,selling.
I mean, look, for any smallbusiness, selling is
fundamental.
It's it's if you can selleffectively, you're probably
gonna make it.

SPEAKER_05 (51:00):
It's the number one paying position in the US.
And if you're not any good atselling, most people think about
selling.
They think about somebody thatsells real estate, cars,
insurance, or furniture.

SPEAKER_01 (51:14):
No, that's true.

SPEAKER_05 (51:15):
That's what they think about.
You forget that the art of saleshappens with the bank to give
you money, investors to do aproduct within a small group on
taking your idea versus somebodyelse, on an employer to say yes
to an employee in you.

SPEAKER_01 (51:29):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (51:30):
Like sales is everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 (51:32):
It is, it's everywhere.
It's so fundamental.
And there's just some tacticsthat you've learned that I think
are really helpful to people ifthey will listen.

SPEAKER_05 (51:42):
If they'll listen.
If they'll listen.
So you you just you ask allthose questions, you listen, and
then you put your responsetogether.
And you know, I've talked aboutthis.
I'll go into a customer conflictor even an employee conflict.
They walk into my office and I'mlike, I really don't know where
this is gonna go.
I don't have my response yet,but that's okay.
Because I'm sitting there takingnotes and I ask questions to

(52:05):
listen, not to respond.
And I'm notes, notes, notes.
Because then I want to make sureonce I've gotten to the very
bottom of it, that I actuallyaddress what's relevant.
And usually the first or thesecond response you have, either
as a customer or an employee, isnot really the issue.
It's just a surface level.

SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (52:24):
And if you don't get down to what the root cause is,
you're addressing it, you'reband-aiding it.

SPEAKER_01 (52:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (52:29):
You need to fix it, and it's gonna come back up to
the case.

SPEAKER_01 (52:31):
It's a symptom.
You're not getting to the cause,you're treating a symptom.

SPEAKER_05 (52:34):
That could be the same thing in a production
liner, the process of yourbusiness.
If you don't get to the rootcause, you're just addressing
the symptom, and then you'refrustrated next week because the
same thing comes up.

SPEAKER_01 (52:47):
No, you're absolutely right.
I got one last question for you,Matt.
What gets you most excited aboutbeing in business?

SPEAKER_05 (52:56):
At this point, is the challenge of scaling and
taking our business, whetherit's to the next level within
one single dealership ormultiplying it out.
Um and and by doing that is howcan I help others become
successful?

(53:17):
And I just you've heard me saythat before.
But if I will focus on helpingthem hit their goals, then all
these ideas and all these bigvisions I have, they'll start to
come together.

SPEAKER_01 (53:29):
So many business owners seem to me like they're
so self-centered and selfishthat they cannot understand that
they've got to do things to maketheir people successful in order
to propel the thing to the nextlevel.
I I I see this over and overagain.
They think their job isbasically to minimize their

(53:51):
labor costs.
You're never going to optimizethat if your goal is to minimize
your labor costs.
You you never will.

SPEAKER_05 (53:57):
And to wrap this whole thing in full circle, you
know, we spend a lot of timeabout working in your business.
But once you get to where yourbusiness and you've got 30
employees, you got 40 employees,you know, you've been in it,
you've grown that up.
If you don't then start workingon your business, you won't see
the opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 (54:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (54:16):
You won't see the opportunities for growth.
Um, and that could be as simpleas listening to podcasts,
reading books, going to aconference.

SPEAKER_02 (54:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (54:24):
You know, I started with that on micro doses and I
didn't even know it washappening.
I would go to conferences, andthat was a time for me to remove
myself from the business, learnfrom other experts out there.
Yeah.
And I'm not in the forest.

SPEAKER_01 (54:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_05 (54:38):
You know, I I've I've rose up enough in altitude
so I can see what's going on andgo, they're doing that over
there in their same business.
Why can't I do that?

SPEAKER_01 (54:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (54:46):
And then you descend back down and you implement
that.

SPEAKER_01 (54:50):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (54:51):
But if you never work on your business and get
around people that arelike-minded, but at the next
level, you'll never grow.

SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (55:02):
You'll cap out.

SPEAKER_01 (55:03):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
And growth is where the valueis.
I mean, I think that's anotherthing.
People don't even understand whythey want to grow.
It builds value in the business.
Sure.
And it lets you get to doingwhat you do best.
That's probably the mostimportant thing, is the growth
supports that process.

SPEAKER_05 (55:25):
And there is inside of every leader that has grown a
business, if you don't feed thatchallenge and it goes dormant,
even if your business issuccessful and you got a great
return on investment, and it'sbeen steady, at some point in
time, you're going to get bored.

SPEAKER_01 (55:45):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 (55:46):
You're going to get bored and you're going to lose
your fire.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden, at thewall process, it's going to go
the other way.

SPEAKER_02 (55:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (55:54):
So that's where you have to then find a new
challenge.
We did something as simple asthis.
I'll I'll share this with you.
And we continue to do this.
I go to my accounts payable andI said, show me somebody, a
vendor, that we write checks toconsistently every single month.
How much were those checks?

(56:15):
How many invoices did they have?
So they they collect all thatfor me.
Sure.
And then we have a meeting andwe say, could we self-perform
that work?

SPEAKER_01 (56:24):
Yes.

SPEAKER_05 (56:25):
It's business we're already doing.

SPEAKER_01 (56:26):
Vertical integration.

SPEAKER_05 (56:27):
Vertical integration.
Yeah.
One of them as simple as we did,and you and I hadn't even talked
about this, but about probably18 months ago, maybe two years
ago, we looked at all of ourcredit card fees.
And we're like, can we not bethe in-between person here
that's getting all those fees?
Maybe.
I I I don't have any knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 (56:47):
Yeah, instead of paying all those fees.
Instead of paying all the fees.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (56:52):
So we found people a whole lot smarter than us.
We ended up becoming themerchant in between.

SPEAKER_01 (56:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (56:56):
I can't tell you the hundreds of thousands that saved
us a year.

SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
Yeah, that's really smart.

SPEAKER_05 (57:01):
But that again, that was working on the business, but
then we come back down and workin the business.

SPEAKER_01 (57:05):
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (57:06):
Every business has so much more hidden potential
besides in our business, sellinganother car or working on
another car.

SPEAKER_01 (57:13):
Yeah, it does.
And you know, the thing I loveabout your business and what
you've done with it is it's sucha great example of you're in
this industry that's verymature.
There's lots of competitors outthere, right?
There's uh you've said itbefore, all four dealers pay the

(57:33):
exact same price for thevehicle.
So how do you how do you carveout your territory in that kind
of environment?
Yeah.
Okay.
It's by a a lot of littlethings.
A lot.

SPEAKER_05 (57:47):
If it was just you know this, but if it was just
selling the car, nobody wouldsign up for that.
The margin is so razor-thin.

SPEAKER_01 (57:55):
No, exactly.
People don't understand that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (57:57):
But you figure out all these upper opportunities,
you know, it's kind of like ifyou get somebody that's in
economic development, they lookat like what's your overall
impact to the community.

SPEAKER_01 (58:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (58:09):
Well, you have those within your own business.

SPEAKER_01 (58:11):
Sure.

SPEAKER_05 (58:12):
And there's plenty of things like we looked at one
point in time, do weself-perform all of our own
vending machines?
Okay, that's that's pretty crazygetting down in the weeds like
that.
It was a good shopping block.
And we're like, and we made itpretty far down the rabbit hole
of going, okay, we can do this,but then we're like, okay, we
need to hire somebody to do thisand that.

(58:33):
And then it wasn't worth it.

SPEAKER_04 (58:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (58:34):
So that I didn't got scrapped.
And that's okay, you know,because you need a hundred of
them for one of them.
The credit card one worked.

SPEAKER_02 (58:42):
Sure, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 (58:42):
We we looked at toll trees, we looked at this and
that.

SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
And it's like, wow.

SPEAKER_05 (58:46):
And you're going, Matt, are you sure?
Like, there's a hundred thousanddollar car out there you're
trying to sell.
But remember, I worked in mybusiness enough that then I grew
somebody else to work on that.
So then I elevate up to findother areas, descend back down
to touch base with that personto make sure they're hitting the
KPIs, how they need me, so onand so forth.

(59:08):
And then I go to work on thenext idea.

SPEAKER_01 (59:10):
Yeah.
Well, you're a master.
Uh, it's always um inspirationalto me together with you.
So if anybody wants to reach outto you, Matt, I know you've
always been helpful to anyone Isent to you.
What's the best way to reachyou?

SPEAKER_05 (59:25):
So I I'm on LinkedIn, so you can find me
Matt Lewis on LinkedIn.
You know, you can find itanywhere on our automotive
website at Lewis Superstore.com.
And then we have a weeklypodcast we put out there too
that are just for businessowners.
We're getting close to thathundred mark of man, we talk
about cash flow and inventoryand firing customers, hiring the
right people.

SPEAKER_01 (59:45):
It's all important stuff.

SPEAKER_05 (59:46):
It's all important.
And what's the name of thatpodcast for everybody?
Crossroad conversations with theLewis brothers.

SPEAKER_01 (59:52):
Okay.
And where do they find that?

SPEAKER_05 (59:54):
So you can find that on Spotify, you can find it on
Apple, you can find it onYouTube.
Podcast videos has helped us putall that together, you know.
So we're big thanks to them.
So uh, or stop by inFayetteville.
We'd love to give you a tour atany of the facilities.
So me or either of my brotherShelley or Taylor just asked
for, so we'll we'll help youout.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:11):
Awesome.
Well, it's very exciting to Iencourage everybody if they
haven't been to the dealership,just go over there.
It's fun.
You bet.
There's always something goingon in the parking lot.
You got a tower of cool cars.
The chair changes.
You got food vendors on Fridayover there, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:28):
We do.
We just had a big car showthere.
We had 400 cars and 1,500people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:33):
Man, it's it's it's a party right there.
It just it's fun.
All right.
Well, everybody, we thank youfor being here today, Matt.
And uh so we're gonna wrap it uptoday.
And this has been anotherepisode of Big Talk About Small
Business.com.
Thanks, Matt.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:52):
You bet.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:58):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
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(01:01:19):
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