May 6, 2026 • 50 mins
Revenue decline is rarely a mystery; it’s usually the result of silent marketing and a refusal to adapt. Many business owners watch their numbers drop by 40% while claiming they’re "too busy" to post on social media or engage their community. In this episode, we tackle the dangerous gap between theoretical "founding" and the gritty reality of running a profitable company.
We sit down to dismantle the "off-the-shelf" approach to business technology and promotion. We get into the critical need for specialized AI vendors over generic subscriptions, the "missing-middle" of business expertise, and why hiring a generalist is often the most expensive mistake you can make. The conversation covers the tactical necessity of relentless promotion, the reality of GPS-level precision in marketing, and the specific philosophy that energy is a more valuable currency than time. We also explore the "secret sauce" of successful growth: prioritizing customer obsession over investor approval.
The unglamorous truth is that most venture capital models are built on a mountain of failure, yet they are the ones being taught in our universities. Real entrepreneurship is a war zone of chaos and constant adaptation, not a clean 10-page slide deck with 30-point font. You’ll walk away with a necessary mindset shift: stop trying to de-risk every move until you're paralyzed. Practical success comes from casting a thousand hooks in the water and having the guts to be "unreasonable" until the job is done.
Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
My revenues down by 40% from last year, but I can't
even bother to take a picture ofmy friggin' food and stick it on
Instagram.
You don't have to be a genius tosee.
You've got to do marketing.
SPEAKER_03 (00:13):
Yes, you can use ChatGPT or Gemini.
Sure.
But if you're trying to solvereal business problems, you need
to find specialty companies thathave already dug into that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
It's another beautiful day in paradise.
Here in the freezing coldstudios of podcastvideos.com.
Keep it cold around here.
It keep get you in and get youout, bro.
I guess that makes sense.
That makes sense.
This is we got to turn thesestudios, right?
Maximize the rental.
(00:47):
This is a bit a for-profitbusiness here.
Hell yeah.
I love the sign up front too.
Free studio tour.
I do.
I love that.
Because you're sitting right bythe busiest coffee shop in
Northwest Arkansas when it comesto business.
No.
You know.
You know, we get your freestudio tour.
I know.
And it's always, and you gotsuch great people in here.
We do have good people.
(01:08):
And you do such a great providesuch a great service.
I don't think people realizejust how easy it is doing
business with podcast videos.
It's fair.
SPEAKER_03 (01:18):
And that's the the trick of business, though.
I mean, I just got out of themeeting just now that like it's
like trying to articulate thevalue.
And people are so busy, youknow, clients are always just
busy.
They've got a lot of thingsswarming their head.
Yep.
Just trying to find out throughthat conversation what is it
that's actually bothering you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, take all the friction out of the whole thing.
You show up, you got notes, yougot free coffee and soft drinks.
What do you guys need?
You guys edit everything, youput it out on social media on
all the platforms, you put itout on all the streaming
platforms.
You can carve it up into littlebits and pieces.
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Makes it easy on you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
The next thing you know, you're freaking famous.
No shit.
Yeah, that is one thing I'venoticed from doing this show.
Like there's constantly videocontent that's on social.
Yeah.
And it's coming from you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just powering through.
I tell you, I this, you know, Ithink I said it last week, but
the last three weeks of thesemester, I have my students
making their presentations onsmall businesses that they
consult with as a part of myclass.
And Eric, every single one ofthem has nowhere near enough
(02:25):
marketing.
Really?
I swear to you.
I mean, it just blows my mind.
Such easy things to do.
I got a catering business.
I put out a post on Instagramonce a month.
Yeah.
I'm like, not gonna happen.
Are you out of your friggin'?
I mean, if I had a cateringbusiness, I would have five to
seven posts a day on you know,Instagram, TikTok, uh, Facebook.
(02:51):
I'd have videos, I'd be out atevents that we're doing, I'd
have pictures of my food, I'dhave interviews with my
employees.
I mean, there's just so much youcan do to become known as the
frigging catering company orwhatever business.
They're all the same.
Every one of them.
It just blows me away.
Well, I got a restaurant, myrevenues down by 40% from last
(03:15):
year, but I can't even bother totake a picture of my friggin'
food and stick it on Instagram.
You know, I mean, it's like youdon't have to be a genius to
see, you've got to do marketing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
Yeah, and a lot of people don't, and I think what
you put into marketing too isjust going out in the market and
talking to people about what youdo.
Like there's so many people thatjust don't show up anymore.
Yeah.
It's like you gotta berelentless.
I mean, I'm in continuousconversations.
Like, actually, my day is about80% in meetings constantly, not
(03:48):
doing the work that I need to bedoing.
So I have to do the work eithersuper early before work starts
or late at night.
Yeah.
You know, and then maybe one daya week I block out a few hours,
and by the time I get to it, Ican't even remember all the
stuff I have to do because Ihave too much to do.
Oh, sure.
I'm sure that's the case.
Yeah.
But I mean, like always talking,always just promoting,
(04:08):
campaigning, what you got goingon.
Like it just requires all that,man.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
What makes your business different and unique
too?
It's like, yeah, it there'sthere's all if you can't
articulate that, yeah, and andmake that into a benefit for
your clients or customers,you're dead in the water.
Yeah.
I mean, it should just be likeboom, it comes out of you.
Yeah.
This is what we do that nobodyelse does.
This is what we have that nobodyelse has.
SPEAKER_03 (04:33):
Yeah, and just being able to articulate pain points,
you know.
I think that one thing that I'vealways had that, you know, as
I've told the team, that thereis one skill set I've had, it's
the ability to just put myselfin my in the anybody's shoe, you
know, seat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
And and kind of like legitimately feel the pain that
they go through.
Like, do they have a thousandemails they gotta scrub through?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Like, what is it that they don't want to do, but
they always have to do that'sjust sucking the life out of
them?
Yes.
Because as a business, I'm hereto provide that value.
Take a problem off your plate inexchange for currency.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Well, that's why you're so simple.
That's why you love AI so much.
Because you can take a lot ofthe drudgery out of daily tasks
and things that a business hasto do.
If it's used properly, whichit's not most of the time, let's
face it.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Yeah, there's there's speaking of like on
that, I just literally got tohave a meeting where my pitch
was basically, what do you hatedoing?
SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:30):
Whatever you we're not here to disrupt, we're here
to take off whatever is plaguingyou, whatever the thorn in the
side, or any new initiativesthat you cannot do because you
don't have the capacity.
Yeah.
If you try to do this AI stuffyourself, you know, this is in
the retail spec, if you try todo this yourself, you're gonna
be spending a year and a halftrying to get your systems
together.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
You're trying to learn stuff that other people
have already figured out.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
We figured we've spent jobs of money and time and
expertise.
Well, you know what down thiswormhole.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
This is to me, it's just like when software started
becoming popular for to dothings like manage your finance
and accounting or your peoplescheduling or that kind of
thing.
And when I would see companiestell me, like, we're we've got
our own system that we createdthat does our billing or
whatever, I'd be like, Are youout of your friggin' mind when
(06:20):
there are specialized buildingsoftware?
Yeah, exactly.
That like millions of dollars ofRD has gone into and it's being
it's being used all over theplace and constantly refined,
but your one guy that sits backthere in a room is gonna figure
this out better than them.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
It's freaking idiotic.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Yeah, no, by the way, it costs you$200 a month
versus you know the$8,000 thatyou're paying somebody to sit
there and do that.
Your developer to sit there andwrite this.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
I mean, it's just it's the same thing with the AI.
SPEAKER_03 (06:52):
Exactly the same.
You can, you know, yes, you canget a quad subscription.
Great.
Congratulations.
Yes, you yes, you can useChatGPT or Gemini.
Sure.
But if you're trying to solvereal business problems, you need
to find specialty companies thathave already dug into that, and
every day they're mastering thevelocity.
Because like software, softwarewas chaotic to keep up with.
(07:13):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
New technologies, it was hard because it wouldn't
work on your pro on your networkand all that.
The machines were so criticalback then.
SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Yeah, it was just always a problem.
Always a problem.
Yeah.
AI is about 100 times that.
Yeah.
When you try to, if you're gonnatry to, as a company, to instill
AI tools and use the big largelanguage models and have
subscriptions, that's that'sgonna solve your unique business
challenges.
You're gonna have a 10 timesharder problem solving them than
you would, like for your exampleof trying to build something
(07:43):
internally.
Yeah, you're gonna get smoked.
Sure.
So the age of having of hiringspecialty AI companies, just
like you would with software, ishere.
Sure.
And we we don't need to try tobe all software developers.
Just because you can code clouddoesn't mean you should code.
No, that's so true.
I mean, it's it's the it's thetruth.
(08:04):
And and there's people out therethat don't have any business
acumen that are seeing anopportunity, and I've ran into a
lot of them.
Oh man, I've been digging, I'm aclaw claude master now.
I can do anything.
Yeah, you can do anything untilshit hits the fan, you know, and
some and there's been somesoccer penetration.
Yeah, exactly.
Are you tied into all the othersystems?
That's right.
(08:24):
The organization work.
Yeah.
There's a there's gonna be a lotof painful, well, painful uh uh
uh you know, crossing thebarriers on this stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, this may seem
tangential to you, but it's kindof like desktop publishing
software when it came out.
It's like you could be a masterof page maker or whatever.
Imagination.
Yeah, what you know, you'relike, you know how to use it.
But if you're not a very gooddesigner to start with, you just
because you know all thewhistles and bells and tools and
(08:54):
how to use them doesn't meanyour end product is gonna be
worth a damn.
That's right.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:59):
It it's exactly the same.
And in the and so what peoplegotta be really uh conscious
about, I have never in my life,and you can hear it from about a
lot of people, you know, neverin my life have I seen such a
massive uh aggressive innovationof disruption than what's been
(09:19):
going on with AI.
And if you're gonna be somebodythat tries to internalize it by
using large language models thatare baked out for the entire
eco, you know, the entirenothing specialized about it.
Sure.
Then you're gonna then you'regonna try to hire to program in
that and put those piecestogether.
Number one, you're gonna have ahell of a time accomplishing
(09:40):
that.
Number two, mainly because theselarge language models are always
innovating.
So the second you start,everybody's all geeked out on
Claude right now.
Right.
Well, Claude's been around for along time.
Sure.
Everybody was geeked out on ChatGPT for a long time.
Now it's not, you know, nowClaude's taking it.
Guess what's gonna happen?
Gemini or OpenAI is gonna beatout Claude or X.
(10:02):
You know, they're gonna it'salways gonna be this thing.
And so when you built anecosystem based on Claude, and
then all of a sudden Geminicomes out with something that
just absolutely is far superior,and now all your competitors are
taking advantage of Gemini whileyou're stuck in Claude.
We're you we're still usingBlackBerries when iPhones are
have taken over, right?
(10:22):
That's exactly right, man.
It's just it's you're you'regonna be A behind them, but then
you'll be so far behind goingforward.
And so you just gotta be reallyconscious of it.
I mean, and you can't have bigconglomerate companies that are
now all of a sudden AI experts,right?
Because everybody can be an AIexpert right now.
You just go into Claude orGemini and you say, give me
(10:44):
talking points about an AIexpertise for our next meeting.
Sure.
And you can know all the talkingpoints, big shit and deal.
Yeah, right.
You know, it's it's that's beencommoditized.
Yes.
So you got to be able to procurebetter as a business person.
Like it's like really lookingfor a good vendor, just like we
always have, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
So it's all about specialization.
It has been.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
If I want to do a direct mail campaign, yeah, and
I run down the street down toFedEx Kinkos because they can
print it.
Yeah.
Oh, we can mail it for you too.
Oh, can you?
Yeah.
That's great.
But are you a mailing house?
Do you have the bulk mailingfreaking permit?
No, they don't know what thehell.
They don't have list management.
They don't have they can't doall the dedupes and all those
other kinds of stuff.
Exactly.
(11:24):
And you can pay a small fortune.
So you go to a mailing house.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
What do you need to mail?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Well, it's just like it's the same thing with houses,
you know.
I always get these calls frompeople.
They're like, Yeah, because theyknow I know something about it.
They're like, I need to get gota number of a good handyman.
And like, what do you need ahandyman for?
Well, I need to replace mykitchen faucet and then my I
want to put a new tile floor inmy master bath.
(11:50):
I'm like, hey, here's a novelidea for you.
Call up Kim Plumber.
Call the plumber for the faucet,and then call the tile guy for
the tile.
Because otherwise, the thehandyman's gonna butcher your
freaking faucet.
One or the other.
Okay.
And you'll be, yeah, and you'llbe paying a plumber to take out
his crap and fix it.
So you're paying for it twice.
(12:11):
And the same thing with the tileguy.
Get the expert.
I mean, it's just like I Iconstantly beat on my students
on this when it comes toattorneys.
I mean, that is just Oh, yeah.
Every field's like that.
Especially the legal field.
Every single field, thearchitecture and engineering
industry.
It's like I don't want peoplelearning at my expense.
(12:34):
Okay.
You know, if I'm doing a projectand I've got I'm doing a dental
clinic, find me somebody that'sdone freaking 50 dental clinics.
I'll guarantee you they knowshit that the guy who's never
done a dental clinic, I don'tcare how good that guy is or
what design awards he's won,okay?
(12:55):
Or she's won.
It's all about specialization.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
It's all about specialization.
And the big trap is that AI hasseemingly, by their own
propaganda, yeah, sort ofleveled the playing field.
It's not leveled for a damnthing, man.
It's actually worse.
Yeah, I get it.
You cannot have one subscriptionthat fits and fixes all your
problems.
That that is that is a dangerzone for two people going
(13:19):
through.
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
It's like everything else, it's a tool.
SPEAKER_03 (13:22):
Even if you even if you don't use clock, you need to
have somebody that knows how toprompt specifically.
Exactly.
Maybe using that technology, butyou pay the person that's going
to be designing that flow.
And they go deep about a veryspecific thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
You know, because I mean you can't find a
journalist, like you can't findan AI person, somebody just
knows AI, and now all of asudden you're your prompting
expert for your entireecosystem.
That's a bad deal.
Yeah.
Like they have a knowledge andexpertise in what the hell
they're prompting towards.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Exactly.
Well, it's just again, now thisto me is it it takes me back to
another one of my subjects I'mpassionate about.
And that is having people whoactually care and have a passion
for what the business does.
All right.
If I'm a restaurant, I wantpeople who love food or love
pleasing people, okay, or both.
(14:13):
All right.
If I'm in the friggin'motorcycle business, I want
people who love riders, lovebikes, know about bikes, can
work on bikes, ride bikesthemselves.
I don't want people that arejust like a good marketer.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because they're not gonna reallyget it when it comes down to it.
Yep.
You know, that's very true.
(14:34):
You gotta know something aboutwhat the business actually does
and have a passion for that.
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
That it goes through the whole thing.
Have you ever heard like Tom'smore valuable than money?
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
And I agree with that.
Especially when you're old.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Now, when you're young, it's the opposite.
Money's more valuable than time.
Seriously.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At some point in your life, youknow, first you trade off time
for money.
And at some point in your life,you start trading up money for
time, and then you get reallylazy.
Okay.
It's like there's people doingall kinds of shit they shouldn't
be doing.
SPEAKER_03 (15:06):
Well, we talk about like employees at a company like
you're talking about, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Their time is is very valuable,right?
If they spend the time andthey're showing up and they're
spending time, I found outsomething that's more valuable
than time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
That's the energy of that time.
Oh man, that's so true.
And what you were talking about,that passion, that's the value
of it.
If you choose a vendor that'spassionate about and is infusing
energy into the time thatthey're billing you, so much
better.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
You get a completely different result.
It's not like a little bitbetter, it's like 10 times or
100 times better.
That's right.
No, I totally understand whatyou're saying.
It well, it just stops being ajob for these people.
It it becomes their what theyare, it becomes their their
identity, it becomes theireverything, you know, to to
(15:59):
solve this problem, to make thiscustomer happy, to improve the
product.
SPEAKER_03 (16:05):
Yeah.
It's you know, I'm afraid tobring this stuff up.
This is gonna be a completecurveball.
Oh no, what?
I've got something I've beenI've been just ranting about
lately.
Okay, what's that?
It's driving me crazy.
Founder.
Oh, yeah.
I've seen it online.
I tried, I called you out.
Yeah, I was expecting more outof you, by the way.
You let me call me out.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
What am I supposed to do?
SPEAKER_03 (16:25):
I wanted you to get wig out with me.
I wanted you to just likerelease the dragon, the dark
drag dragon.
So basically the statement.
Well, it wasn't clear to me thatthat's what you wanted, or I
wouldn't have done it.
Next time I'll text you, sayrelease the dragon.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Okay, I I would be glad to do that.
But yeah, they are different.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
Very different in this whole mentality of
investors trying to findfounders.
Yeah.
And they skip over experienceproven, industry specialized,
expert, been there, done it,doing it again, entrepreneurs.
Right.
It is driving me absolutely outof my freaking brain.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
Well, a smart investor, you'd think, would be
able to realize the differencein the two, and the risk factor
of the former versus the latteris must be completely different.
SPEAKER_03 (17:11):
So, my here's my point.
If you're an investor, what doyou want?
You want return on yourinvestment.
That's the reason you're doingit.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
And the way and the way to get return on your
investment is to de-risk shitgoing back.
Exactly.
And you de-risk by experienceand wisdom gained in prior
successes and failures both.
SPEAKER_03 (17:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
I want somebody that is going tobe able to navigate the
ecosystem, not give up, yeah, ispassion behind what they're
doing, has already proven thatthey've been behind there.
So why do we keep, as acommunity and as a country, keep
promoting, become a founder, getan investor, do your pitch
decks, it's and get some moneyand capital.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
You know, that's real, I mean, it's it's pop
culture, but it's really funnybecause I had a conversation.
Um uh it was yeah, it wasyesterday.
Today's Wednesday, it wasyesterday.
The days fade for me because itgoes so freaking long and so
early.
I don't know about you, but Iwas up before 4 a.m.
today.
Yeah, okay.
But anyway, two really, reallysuccessful investors.
(18:17):
Yeah.
One of them had done sold acompany to Google.
Uh, they're doing all kinds ofstuff on really big scale.
Okay.
I mean, I won't even get intowho they are, but let's just say
super successful in theentertainment and business
world.
Two guys, all right.
And before we had this call,they said, Do you have a pitch
(18:38):
deck you could send us inadvance?
I said, I have no pitch deck,but I'll tell you anything you
want to know.
We got on the phone, we or Zoomor whatever the hell it was.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
You were in this meeting?
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah, it was me with these two guys.
We talked These two guys wereinvestors, or these are the
These are two guys areinvestors.
Okay.
Okay.
In a venture, potentialinvestors in a venture I'm
involved with.
Okay.
They said to me 10 times howrefreshing it was to talk to
somebody who was notbullshitting them with some kind
(19:08):
of a bullshit pitch deck, okay,to just give them the absolute
truth.
Yeah.
They were they were blown awayby that.
Okay.
Now, to me, it's obvious, it'slike, I don't want to waste your
time.
Yeah.
Why would I want to misrepresentanything and sell you?
I don't want to sell.
(19:29):
We know how dangerous that is.
SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Can you imagine taking money from somebody and
you don't and you like themedia?
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (19:36):
You like I just am I screwing up?
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Well, if you have any kind of conscience, okay.
There are some people that likeact like it's okay to look at.
They're professional pitchdeckers.
Yeah, exactly.
They don't care.
I mean, that to me is likeimmoralists.
Snakes.
Yeah.
Lizards.
But but I mean, yeah, it's itit's pop culture has created
this thing.
Okay.
I think there's starting to be amovement.
(20:02):
You think?
I do.
I I sense there is.
I I could be wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (20:06):
I'm telling you right now, like, I feel like
that the entrepreneurs in ourcommunity, especially, which we
are an entrepreneurialcommunity, this is what makes me
even more mad.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Well, we are here.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
The greatest entrepreneurs of all time have
come out of the entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I know we are so underestimated.
SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
We are underestimated, it's
undervalued.
We have completely skipped theentrepreneur spirit.
Yeah.
And we're trying to invent andfabricate one that's based upon
the West Coast.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
And they're well, dude, it's kind of like though,
Bentonville is almost like a oh,what do I want to say?
It's like a model for that in away.
It's like, let's create thisunbelievable world out of
nothing.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
And do it.
Out of gravel roads.
Yeah, in about two or threeyears.
(20:51):
And you're like, we got a wholenew hip, cool place to be.
It's like you can't do thingslike that in a way.
It's like it's too, it, it, itbecomes artificial.
Plastic.
Yeah, it becomes just like whatyou're saying about the
entrepreneurial e-commerce.
SPEAKER_03 (21:05):
Yeah, but you can't play with that part, right?
You can play with the buildingsand the infrastructure and
create that community.
But when you get down torunning, starting, having a
business with successful expertsthat compound and continue to
employ and build economics,farting around with a bunch of
founders that have never done abusiness in their life.
(21:26):
Yeah.
Because they have a greatpresentation and they're saying
literally, I've been around thisspace.
Well, you know more about itthan I.
I mean, I I hear it too, though.
I can't.
I'll sit there and I'll tellI'll tell some of these, these,
these uh groups, I'm like,here's my business.
And like, well, which series areyou on right now?
Are you on AA plus?
I don't even know what they'retalking about half the time.
(21:46):
What the hell are you talkingabout, bro?
I need some money and I've gotsome revenue and I'm driving to
the next ceiling, man.
Let's freaking go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
It's like I only like to have one class of stock
in anything I get involved with.
Period.
You can buy in or you can notbuy in.
SPEAKER_03 (22:00):
It's irrelevant, man.
You put in or out.
Do you want to make a hundred Xof your money?
Because that's what I thinkyou're supposed to do.
I've been here, done it before.
Exactly.
Why would you not invest?
Yeah.
Give me the re because itdoesn't follow the right
procedure.
Quit trying to.
The worst thing that you couldever do is try to box in and put
together a perfect puzzle pieceof business.
(22:22):
No kidding.
It is absolutely a excuse me,war zone.
It's chaos.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
It's chaos.
And then every once in a while,something like emerges out of
the the stuff.
Okay.
All the shit you've been talkingfor years.
Whoa.
And it just like crawls out ofthe soup.
SPEAKER_03 (22:42):
And it's like the problem.
Oh my god, let's go for thatone.
That one's working for me.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
It stops breathing water.
It starts breathing air, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the that's whatbusinesses.
But see, I but the the the Imean, and again, I I think part
of the problem is there's thispreoccupation with inventing
something new.
Not everything has to be new,and it's super risky.
Super a new business withsomething inventing something
(23:11):
new and then creating a newbusiness around it, it's the
absolute riskiest thing you cando.
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
Did Sam Walton create a new No.
Did did uh did uh Don Tysoncreate something new?
Did Procter and Gamble createsomething new?
No, no.
Everyone's no.
I know.
The only things that are new arehappening in silicon, and we're
trying to re-replicate thatmodel is the most dangerous,
risky thing you could do.
Exactly.
That's when right here we haveproven success of just being
(23:38):
great entrepreneurs.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
But see, that's to me, is why we're doing this
podcast, though.
That's fair.
It's to to to sort of umdemystify this stuff and and
hammer and beat down thesemisconceptions that people have
about what it takes to build asuccessful business.
SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
Yeah.
Right?
You know, because why why itsucks is because you work with
these students all the time.
SPEAKER_04 (24:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
Students might have an idea and it could be great,
and they have a passion towardsthe idea, and they have an
attitude like they're going tosacrifice their blood, their
family, everything under the sunbecause to go after this vision
that they have.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden youhave somebody come in, uh, you
know, have you built your pitchdeck?
Your pitch deck needs to be atleast only 10 pages.
(24:24):
And you must only use 30-pointfont.
And you must build a performer.
Have you thought about this?
Let's have a five-year forecastthat's never gonna freaking come
true.
And make sure you have anexecutive summary.
And then let me introduce you tothese investors.
Which series are you lookingfor?
Are you looking for pre-pre prepre pre pre pre seed?
Or are you looking for pre seed?
(24:46):
Just pre-pre pre seed.
Or just pre pre pre pre seed.
And you're just like, whatyou've done is you've taken an
entrepreneur and you put theminto this complete fabricated
program.
What's your burn rate?
What is your burn rateexpectation for the next 17
years?
What's my return on investment?
You know, what's I mean, dude,like, no.
(25:07):
What you need to do as anentrepreneur, we don't like
chains.
Yeah.
No.
And what you've done is you'veyou've crushed the entrepreneur
and you've invited founders andprofessional salespeople.
Yeah, and that that's that's itright there.
And then that's to me.
Here's what makes me upset aboutMartin.
Sure, I got my I've got myfeelings hurt about a little
bit, just personally, becauseit's like, dude, what else do I
(25:29):
got to do?
Do I have to do this 10 moretimes?
I'm gonna be 90 years old by thetime I'm like, oh shit, let's
invest in him, you know?
And then he's got going.
You've got a proven trackrecord.
No, but it doesn't matter.
That's what's so frustratingabout it.
You would think like, my God,yeah.
It's not just me.
There's 10 of us around here.
No, I can't do it.
None of us get anything.
No, I think.
Oh, by the way, here's the otherthing.
Yeah.
If they want to invest, uh,yeah, I usually only invest
(25:52):
about 50,000 in pre-preceedrounds, and that's all the
investors we have.
It's like, dude, that's notgonna do it.
I will freaking spit$50,000 inthe game.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
I can go get$50,000 on my frigging discover card.
I mean, I don't have to answerthat.
Exactly.
Why would I it's probably likeinterest free for the first year
or some shit.
Here's the best thing.
6.99%.
SPEAKER_03 (26:17):
And here's the best part.
In order for you to get my$50,000, I need to see your
entire business plan.
Yeah.
And so now as an entrepreneur,I'm like, bro, like, do you want
me to like give you all my tradesecrets?
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Like, hell no, baby.
It's not even that.
That's that's part of it.
But the other part of it is thefact that real entrepreneurs in
my mind are constantly adaptingand reacting to opportunities
that come up.
We can't, we don't plan everysingle thing, but what we do is
we cast a million hooks in thewater.
(26:49):
And then the odds are in ourfavor that we'll be successful.
And you keep talking and youkeep learning and you keep
adapting and evolving.
And it you you can't you can'tlay it all out like that.
No, if you've got to bereactive.
The thing is, though, to designan organization that quickly
reacts to changes in in themarket and opportunities that
(27:11):
you spot, right?
100%.
You've got to be fast.
Yeah.
That's my great frustration withso many businesses.
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
And it and if you get that capital and you try to
divert from the plan, yeah.
Oh, God, no, don't do that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Then you're not a real professional.
Okay, we need to getprofessional managers in here
because these entrepreneurs havetheir heads up their ass.
Let's get some professionalmanagers in here to tell them
how to do things properly.
That's right.
That's what I read in a book.
It said that we hit a certainstage and the founder needs to
go, and then we get theprofessional managers in, and
(27:48):
then they turn into bureaucrats,and then we go down the friggin'
toilet.
SPEAKER_03 (27:52):
Okay.
We need professional managers sowe can start the flywheel
effect.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, the flywheel, man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Yeah, bruh.
Bruh.
You're trying to sound like my15-year-old just calling me.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
But the worst part about this is that if we
overlook in this community, thistrue entrepreneurship, it's
they're missing out.
Yeah, well, it's gonna hurt thefreaking entire economy.
Well, sure it is.
Because I mean, like, what areyou gonna have?
You don't have any moreentrepreneurship, or you're
you're you're putting a cap onwhat you have.
It's just it's absolutelyasinine to me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Well, it's it's why it's always best if you can just
bootstrap it and not get anybodyelse involved.
But the pro problem is that somethings are big problems and they
take capital to solve.
Yeah, it yeah, it's really true.
SPEAKER_03 (28:35):
What's dawned on me lately, though, this is my
breath of fresh air.
Okay.
Through all this frustration, myepiphany is I invest in my
people that are with me.
I give them opportunity.
Right, those are the ones I wantto be exactly benefit from the
success of the energy.
That they bring to this companyevery day.
(28:57):
If I if they can have if theycan multiply their energy, yeah,
I don't even need capital.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Well, that's it.
I always said, okay, I'm sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you,
but it's it's you know, peopleare like, you know, I've studied
management my whole life, okay?
And it's like, well, how do Imotivate people?
I don't want to motivate people.
What I want to do is notdemotivate people.
So many businesses suck thatlife force out of their people.
(29:26):
That's fair because they forcethem into these constraints and
boxes that they shouldn'tnecessarily be in.
You see what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, yeah, you want tounleash that potential of your
people.
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
Unleash the creativity.
Yes.
Don't don't put don't try to getthem to obey.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
That's it.
It it as soon as you force themto obey, they may do it for a
little while, but then they'regonna rebel and they're not
gonna want to be treated likethat.
I'll never forget I hired a kidyears ago, he's about a year or
two out of school, and he workedfor a company where he had to
ask to go to the bathroom.
No, and this is a guy with afour-year degree in business.
(30:08):
I mean, can you imagine treatingsomebody like that?
That's so that's so lawful.
I know.
Can I go to the bathroom likeyou're a kindergarten?
Exactly.
That's terrible.
I mean, I think we do a lot ofdeath by meeting, I think death
by bureaucracy, yeah,unnecessary reporting, tracking,
(30:29):
you know, things.
Like you said, not take nottaking the friction out of the
system for your people.
I mean, your job as the leaderis to like give them the tools
and clear the roadblocks out ofthe way to get them to be able
to do what they can do.
SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
But yeah, this this whole thing, I mean, you know, I
think the problem, truthfully,though, is if you look at like
the VC model, okay, it's allbased on a lot of failures and a
big success.
And that's a bad model.
I'd rather go with the WarrenBuffett approach.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
You know what I mean?
Where it's like, let's have like80% successes.
You know?
Yeah, because we're not it's atotally different mentality.
SPEAKER_03 (31:16):
Yeah, and then if you could invest, if you could
really invest in realentrepreneurs, proven your risk
goes down, risk goes weighted.
Yep.
Now, of course, you're not gonnabe able to have them behold to
you as investors.
If you're not gonna go, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You may not know everything they're gonna do or
approve of every single thingthey're gonna do.
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
That's right.
Yeah, and that might be part ofthe tension problem.
Oh, it is, yeah, because I wouldnot be like if somebody invested
in my company, I'm not gonna beyour typical founder who've
never done it before.
I'm just gonna listen toeverything you say.
Yeah.
Because I actually I should, asthe entrepreneur, know more
about what the hell's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Exactly.
But but you're right, though.
I think you deal with people whohave the money to invest, they
are used to people doing whatthey want.
Okay.
That's the they've been doing ita long, and because they have
the gold, the golden rule is heor she has the gold rules.
So they're used to thatcompliance, but that compliance
(32:16):
is the last thing they reallyshould want out of their
companies that they're puttingmoney into.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
You know, man, and I get it.
Like I've uh, you know, I've I'msomewhat of a hybrid these days.
You know, I have a little bit toinvest in some things, and I've
made some mistakes, right?
You know, and so I know whatit's like to kind of like be a
little bit fearful about where Iput in place in my life.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
God jokes, I I hear you, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Um, but you know, I think what I've learned real
quickly is that it's really theperson that's driving that
company.
It comes down to that.
Do they have the businessacumen?
Do they have the proven trackrecord?
And the motivation andcommitment level.
Yes.
Sacrifice mentality, yes, thefreaking, you know.
(33:00):
I mean, are these people theones not sleeping because
they're thinking so much anddoing so much every day?
That's what I want.
Yeah, that's all you want rightthere.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
The little little bit of the crazy.
Yeah, well, I mean, nothing getsdone by reasonable people.
I mean, let's face it.
Unreasonable people accomplishgreat things.
That's right, man.
So I yeah, I'm totally with you.
And it makes a lot of sense tome.
And there's just a millionreasons we have the problem that
we have.
And in it, you know, it's it'spop culture, it's the
(33:30):
educational system.
I mean, I've said this before.
If you look at entrepreneurshipprograms, I don't care what
school you want to talk about,the majority of them focus on
one thing cold new venturestartups.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Pitch competitions, business plan competitions, all
the stuff that is not reallywhat the real world is about.
That's right.
There's very little informationout there on buying existing
companies, growing throughacquisition, finding key people,
like what partners do you reallywant to get in bed with?
I mean, there's all the stuffthat is really gonna impact your
(34:06):
success.
Yeah.
It's it's just not it's nottalked about, it's not taught,
it's not emphasized.
And then you get out there, andwhat do we have?
We got Shark Tank.
SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
Yep.
Okay.
Yep.
That's been, yep, that's beencompletely glorified.
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
It's all shark tank.
We got sharks out there and theyknow everything.
And yeah, which I don't hat inhand.
SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
Can you give me some money for my stupid ass fuck
freaking business?
And then they negotiate aboutequity, you know, and it's you
start out with a contentiousrelationship right out of the
gate.
Exactly.
Like you know, this is the way Itell this to the team a lot.
If you go buy a car for fivegrand, yeah, the second you
write that check, you'reexcited.
Yeah.
But when you write that checkand you leave that car, you're
(34:47):
like, Did I make a gooddecision?
Oh, yeah.
And I'm sitting here looking ateverything.
Buyers remorse, buyers and morecognitive dissidents.
But investors immediately, youknow, now they're hawkeyeing
you, making sure that every stepand there's all they're they're
just looking for a problem.
That you're right.
Whereas an entrepreneur, youcan't be somebody that's stutter
stepping around.
You can't be an analysisparalysis.
(35:08):
Yes.
You know, you have to have ahigh amount of self-confidence
in what you're doing.
Yes.
You know, I mean, you're gonnahave to hear the word no, but
you can't have somebody that'sgot you and that's sitting there
trying to give you directionbecause and having you feel like
that if I don't do what theysay, they're out, and that's
gonna put me in a bad position.
Yeah, if I do what they say andI think that they're wrong, I'm
(35:28):
in a bad position.
Yeah, like that's a veryvulnerable state to be in.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
I I think, but I think the the the entrepreneur a
lot of times creates their ownmess.
Okay.
I mean, it's like I had a guyask me the other day, well, how
do you adjust it?
Where'd you come up with$33 ashare?
I said, arbitrarily.
He goes, Well, is that I mean,how do we know that's the right?
I go, if people are buying thestock at$33 a share, it's the
(35:55):
right value.
How's that?
I swear to you, I said that, andyou know what the guy did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it's I didn't go intoany, I I said you could, there's
no rational means I could comeup with that would justify this
valuation, other than the factthat people buy it.
People will buy it for that, andthat's and if you don't want to
(36:19):
pay that, that's fine.
We're not gonna sell it to you.
That's the other thing, youknow?
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
It's like you overinflate a lot of those
things too much, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
Yeah, there's always somebody with someone.
We gotta justify it.
Yeah, everything is overjustification to to the experts.
Well, I mean, look, a lot of it,again, uh we've got cultural
problems, we've got educationalproblems, we got societal values
problems, all these things arehurting us.
(36:51):
Okay.
It all it all combines to hamperthe entrepreneur from doing what
it is that they should be doing,which is out there creating
businesses, solving problems,employing people, growing,
creating wealth.
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
We've allowed the outside.
I want to be secure, I want tohave no risk, I want to live, I
want to, you know, live foreverand not get sick and you know,
and protect everything that Ihave, live in air conditioned,
yeah.
Like escape from the real worldproblems and the discomfort
(37:34):
existence and try to push thaton to an entrepreneur, a real
entrepreneur that is actuallyliving in a playing field, is
playing is playing ball everyday.
SPEAKER_05 (37:44):
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SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
I want to play ball until I am carried out on a
freaking stretcher.
Okay?
I do not want to be a spectator.
Yeah, I that's always why I wasnever a big fan of spectator
sports.
I always said, I'll be a player.
That's I feel the same way.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
It's funny you say that.
Like everybody's like, are yougoing to the game?
Like, I don't watch sports.
Yeah, I don't go to games now, Iknow watch it on TV.
Like you play sports.
Yeah, I mean, I'll play your ownsports.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I mean, I love playing footballand I mean you never catch me
like just sitting aroundwatching.
Yeah.
You know, because it's just not,you know, I mean, yeah, you want
(38:36):
to be in the game.
Yeah, I can't spectate, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
Yeah, you want to be, you want to be in the game.
It's the whole, you're right.
I mean, but again, it's acultural value, societal thing,
comfort, reduction of risk, suchthat I, you know, I see these
things.
How can you retire on twomillion dollars a year or
whatever?
You know, and I mean, look, Idon't have the most resources in
(38:59):
the world.
Hell, I've got two ex-wives Isupport and a current one and
five kids.
Okay.
One of them's going to freakingthe French Alps here.
You know, it's like, you knowwhat I'm talking about.
Okay.
I got overhead, dude.
My Amex so far, I looked at itthis morning, it's$37,000 for
(39:20):
the month.
And where are we?
It's the 22nd of the month.
By the end of the day.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
So I got 10 more days.
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
By the end of the day, it'll be higher.
But but it's like white peoplelike my kids, they go, Well, why
do you move every two years?
Because I move every two yearsbecause I got a chance to make
over 500K and I tax free on myown home.
And yes, is it inconvenient?
Is it risky?
(39:48):
Maybe I won't, you know, I buyanother house before I sell
mine.
Oh my God.
What if I don't sell my house?
I've got two expensive housessimultaneously.
That'll be a bitch, right?
It'll be a pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
How do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
I mean, just the worst thing is I'll have to cut
my price and I'll make lessmoney on my current house than I
would make.
I'll still make money on it,though.
Don't get me wrong.
All right.
That's the worst thing that'sgoing to happen to me.
Okay.
People can't see that though.
Like if I went to my sister andI said, my house is going to
(40:21):
sell for 2.2 million, and I'mgoing to buy this one over here
and invest half a million in itafter I buy it.
And then I'm going to put myhouse on the market.
She would be like having acoronary.
You're going to do what?
What if you can't sell yourhouse?
Oh my God, that's terrible.
You know, what it's like a shortcircuit.
(40:42):
It's like Barolis sets in.
You know?
But you do it because itadvances your goals.
It allows you to live yourlifestyle.
It's a smart move financially.
It costs 18,000 bucks to move.
It's a pain in the ass.
Whatever.
We get to buy new furniture.
(41:02):
I buy all new TVs.
Okay.
I mean, do you sell all yourexisting furniture?
What do you do with all the Idon't get I don't buy everything
new, but I do buy some.
Yeah.
When you got as many kids as Ido, there's always somebody that
wants your furniture to get ridof.
That's fair.
Okay.
I buy all new TVs though.
I really every time you move.
Every time I move.
One brand.
One brand.
What's the brand?
(41:22):
One remote.
High sense.
It's cheap.
I buy them at Walmart.
They're great.
And I buy high sense soundsystems that go with them.
So everything works on oneremote.
I don't need a Roku adapter.
I don't need a separate remotefor the freaking surround sound.
Okay.
You can get them up to 100inches.
I got my program.
(41:43):
I'm buying 10 new TVs.
10 new TVs for it.
Yeah.
But I'm just saying, and youknow what the cost of this, by
the way?
$4,900.
Yeah.
For 10 new TVs.
10 new TVs.
And the sound system.
TVs are so cheap right now.
Yeah.
It's mind-boggling.
We're going to buy all new gymequipment too.
Are you?
I'm going to leave that there.
Oh, yeah.
I'm buying new.
(42:03):
But I'm just saying, it's ayeah, it's a risk.
You take it, but think aboutwhat that does.
For us to make a half a milliondollars, we're probably at least
in a 40% total tax bracket.
When you come to the federaltaxes and the state, right?
You'd have to make uh 800,000 inorder to get the five.
(42:25):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Eight if and I don't know aboutyou, but if somebody wants to
give me$800,000 every two years,I'm gonna take it.
Okay.
Exactly.
It's just I get$500,000 of thatincome tax-free.
Yeah.
If it's your primary residence.
(42:45):
Yes.
And you're married.
SPEAKER_03 (42:47):
And you don't have to pay the capital gains.
SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
No capital gains.
As long as you put it back inthe new house.
No, you don't even have to putit back in a new house.
SPEAKER_03 (42:53):
You can do it if you kept it, then you'll just you
know use it all and right.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Every two years you can do that.
But I'm just saying, again, it'sall part of this risk, comfort,
discomfort question.
SPEAKER_03 (43:06):
People don't want to feel like they're putting
something at risk.
SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:11):
They're scared of the risk.
SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (43:13):
They're scared of what might happen because
they've been told horrorstories.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Yes.
What you always, I think theentrepreneur always has to ask
them.
Whenever I start getting scaredof risk, which I'm not gonna say
I haven't ever been.
Of course, yeah.
I always think to myself, what'sthe worst thing that's gonna
happen?
Yeah.
What is the very worst thingthat could happen to you?
Yeah.
Well, you move into a rentalhouse somewhere for 2,500 bucks
(43:40):
a month and live in asubdivision.
Okay, I could do that if I hadto.
Go mow yards if you need to.
Yeah.
Freaking pick up track.
I wouldn't even have to do that.
I mean, you know what I'msaying?
I mean, I'm sure I can giveenough cash coming in to support
like that lifestyle just basedon what I make at the university
and social security or whatever.
It's like What's the worst thingthat's gonna happen to you?
(44:02):
I don't get to drive Porschesand I drive a friggin' new Kia.
They're pretty damn nice.
They are pretty damn nice.
Okay.
Have you driven a Kia like guys?
I rent them all the time.
I'm like, God, for 22 grand, youcan buy this.
SPEAKER_03 (44:15):
I'll see Kiya's coming home.
I'm like, oh, that's a nice raincover and it pulls up like a
Kia?
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
I'm like, that's a Kia.
I just did that the other day.
I'm like, that thing looks likea friggin' BMW.
Okay.
But I'm just saying, you have tosay to yourself, what's the
worst thing that's going tohappen to me?
Right.
Okay.
And you know, the worst thingthat's going to happen is
something happens to your kidsor your wife.
Yeah.
And then your own health.
(44:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (44:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:42):
Those are the bad things that's the health that
are going to be.
And it's all about health.
It's all about health.
It has nothing to do with themoney side.
So if you can separate yourselffrom that and realize we live in
a great country.
Yeah.
And you're going to be able toeke out a living if you got any
motivation at all.
Don't even have to be smart.
Okay.
You just need to show up and getat it.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Exactly.
So take all that aside.
Then your attitude toward restchanges.
Okay.
Unless you're just so wrapped upon the trappings of success.
Yeah.
Which I know you're not.
Right.
And I'm not.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:19):
Okay.
It's contribution.
SPEAKER_01 (45:21):
Right.
Wrapped up in the trappings.
The trappings do nothing foryou.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (45:27):
Yeah.
It's it's what you accomplish.
That's the only way you reallyfeel good.
So all this stuff comes, youknow.
That again, that's why we'redoing this podcast.
We're trying to change the waypeople think.
Yeah.
(45:47):
Small business owners areprobably too risk-averse.
Yeah.
People out there looking forcapital, they're too
risk-averse.
SPEAKER_03 (45:56):
Yeah.
Because you're asking forsomebody else to flip your bill.
Yep.
You know, and that is a problem,man.
That's a I think that'sdamaging.
I mean, number one, you you'reyou're overlooking and damaging
the existing trueentrepreneurial ecosystem.
Number two, you could be puttingsomebody in a very, very bad
position.
Oh, yeah.
You know, that that that couldhurt them personally and hurt
(46:18):
other people and all this othertype of stuff.
And it's that's all a high riskscenario from a group of folks
that are trying to minimize therisk.
Yeah.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
I mean, somebody proved mewrong.
Yeah.
You know, but I mean a one outof ten ratio is not really a
good idea.
And I mean, Silicon Valley'sdoing it, but I mean or one out
(46:38):
of twenty.
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
But I mean, is that model?
I mean, it's it's just hype andit's going on there, but I mean,
they have a whole ecosystem.
All the banks and everybody wellis pouring over there to play
that that that gamble.
SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
Why would we want to take that kind of gamble on?
SPEAKER_01 (46:56):
Our whole culture and economic environment in this
place we're in, it's not basedon that at all.
As you said, these this is notbased on invention, it's based
on doing things better.
Yep, building a better mousetrapversus inventing a mousetrap.
That's right.
Yeah, it's it's it's where theopportunity is, and it's so much
less risky.
(47:16):
I I tell you, and you know,again, I can't tell you, I've
seen over a thousand businessesthat my students have worked
with that just imagine that whatyou can learn by looking at
that.
Okay.
And you see the same mistakesover and over and over again.
Yeah.
It's it's no marketing, hiringanybody good, complaining about
(47:42):
their people, but doingabsolutely nothing for their
people.
It's just the bad accounting, nobad customer service, bad
customer service, and justshaking it off.
You know.
SPEAKER_03 (47:58):
What an entrepreneur knows, like I'll tell you what
would make me wig out is if acustomer that's paying me,
paying our company for value,and we don't return their call,
or we don't are prompt andurgent about servicing them if
we're not at their beck andcall, I think that I will wig
out, man.
SPEAKER_01 (48:17):
I read every review and every comment on social
media.
100%.
And I want to respond to itaccordingly to make them happy.
SPEAKER_03 (48:26):
When I see somebody leave me a review on Google five
stars, I'm just like, it makesmy entire day.
Of course.
I feel so much pride and in theworld.
That's why you're doing allthis.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, thank you somuch for taking the time.
Yes.
I mean, that means a lot to us.
Of course it's our lifeblood ofthis business.
Exactly.
But a founder with a pitch deckwould probably be, you know,
having a razor series 35K.
(48:51):
That's what they're worriedabout.
That's not entrepreneurism.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
All right, man.
Hey, we gotta end this show.
We wigged out a little bit,didn't we?
We did, but it was it was funwigging out, and it's always
therapeutic.
SPEAKER_03 (49:01):
That's the dragon I was looking for on LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
Well, next time you gotta warn me.
I'll be glad to deliver.
You know I will if I I know whatI what's needed.
I try to deliver.
That's fair.
All right.
Well, hey, everybody.
Um, send us your questions.
Yeah.
Send us your ideas for topicsyou want us to talk about.
Yeah.
And and uh it's www.bigalowbusiness.
(49:29):
Small business.
Small, excuse me, big talk aboutsmall business.com.
I was telling one of my friendsabout the show today, and he's
like, small talk about bigbusiness.
I'm like, no, big talk aboutsmall business.
That's right.
Okay, huge difference.
Yeah.
But uh, but anyway, um, untilnext week.
This has been another greatepisode of Big Talk About Small
(49:51):
Business.
SPEAKER_00 (49:59):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(50:20):
Business.
And be sure to head over to ourwebsite to read articles, browse
episodes, and ask questionsabout upcoming shows.
My revenues down by 40% from last year, but I can't
even bother to take a picture ofmy friggin' food and stick it on
Instagram.
You don't have to be a genius tosee.
You've got to do marketing.
SPEAKER_03 (00:13):
Yes, you can use ChatGPT or Gemini.
Sure.
But if you're trying to solvereal business problems, you need
to find specialty companies thathave already dug into that.
SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
It's another beautiful day in paradise.
Here in the freezing coldstudios of podcastvideos.com.
Keep it cold around here.
It keep get you in and get youout, bro.
I guess that makes sense.
That makes sense.
This is we got to turn thesestudios, right?
Maximize the rental.
(00:47):
This is a bit a for-profitbusiness here.
Hell yeah.
I love the sign up front too.
Free studio tour.
I do.
I love that.
Because you're sitting right bythe busiest coffee shop in
Northwest Arkansas when it comesto business.
No.
You know.
You know, we get your freestudio tour.
I know.
And it's always, and you gotsuch great people in here.
We do have good people.
(01:08):
And you do such a great providesuch a great service.
I don't think people realizejust how easy it is doing
business with podcast videos.
It's fair.
SPEAKER_03 (01:18):
And that's the the trick of business, though.
I mean, I just got out of themeeting just now that like it's
like trying to articulate thevalue.
And people are so busy, youknow, clients are always just
busy.
They've got a lot of thingsswarming their head.
Yep.
Just trying to find out throughthat conversation what is it
that's actually bothering you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Yeah, take all the friction out of the whole thing.
You show up, you got notes, yougot free coffee and soft drinks.
What do you guys need?
You guys edit everything, youput it out on social media on
all the platforms, you put itout on all the streaming
platforms.
You can carve it up into littlebits and pieces.
SPEAKER_03 (01:51):
Makes it easy on you.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_03 (01:53):
The next thing you know, you're freaking famous.
No shit.
Yeah, that is one thing I'venoticed from doing this show.
Like there's constantly videocontent that's on social.
Yeah.
And it's coming from you guys.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just powering through.
I tell you, I this, you know, Ithink I said it last week, but
the last three weeks of thesemester, I have my students
making their presentations onsmall businesses that they
consult with as a part of myclass.
And Eric, every single one ofthem has nowhere near enough
(02:25):
marketing.
Really?
I swear to you.
I mean, it just blows my mind.
Such easy things to do.
I got a catering business.
I put out a post on Instagramonce a month.
Yeah.
I'm like, not gonna happen.
Are you out of your friggin'?
I mean, if I had a cateringbusiness, I would have five to
seven posts a day on you know,Instagram, TikTok, uh, Facebook.
(02:51):
I'd have videos, I'd be out atevents that we're doing, I'd
have pictures of my food, I'dhave interviews with my
employees.
I mean, there's just so much youcan do to become known as the
frigging catering company orwhatever business.
They're all the same.
Every one of them.
It just blows me away.
Well, I got a restaurant, myrevenues down by 40% from last
(03:15):
year, but I can't even bother totake a picture of my friggin'
food and stick it on Instagram.
You know, I mean, it's like youdon't have to be a genius to
see, you've got to do marketing.
SPEAKER_03 (03:26):
Yeah, and a lot of people don't, and I think what
you put into marketing too isjust going out in the market and
talking to people about what youdo.
Like there's so many people thatjust don't show up anymore.
Yeah.
It's like you gotta berelentless.
I mean, I'm in continuousconversations.
Like, actually, my day is about80% in meetings constantly, not
(03:48):
doing the work that I need to bedoing.
So I have to do the work eithersuper early before work starts
or late at night.
Yeah.
You know, and then maybe one daya week I block out a few hours,
and by the time I get to it, Ican't even remember all the
stuff I have to do because Ihave too much to do.
Oh, sure.
I'm sure that's the case.
Yeah.
But I mean, like always talking,always just promoting,
(04:08):
campaigning, what you got goingon.
Like it just requires all that,man.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
What makes your business different and unique
too?
It's like, yeah, it there'sthere's all if you can't
articulate that, yeah, and andmake that into a benefit for
your clients or customers,you're dead in the water.
Yeah.
I mean, it should just be likeboom, it comes out of you.
Yeah.
This is what we do that nobodyelse does.
This is what we have that nobodyelse has.
SPEAKER_03 (04:33):
Yeah, and just being able to articulate pain points,
you know.
I think that one thing that I'vealways had that, you know, as
I've told the team, that thereis one skill set I've had, it's
the ability to just put myselfin my in the anybody's shoe, you
know, seat.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
And and kind of like legitimately feel the pain that
they go through.
Like, do they have a thousandemails they gotta scrub through?
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
Like, what is it that they don't want to do, but
they always have to do that'sjust sucking the life out of
them?
Yes.
Because as a business, I'm hereto provide that value.
Take a problem off your plate inexchange for currency.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Well, that's why you're so simple.
That's why you love AI so much.
Because you can take a lot ofthe drudgery out of daily tasks
and things that a business hasto do.
If it's used properly, whichit's not most of the time, let's
face it.
SPEAKER_03 (05:23):
Yeah, there's there's speaking of like on
that, I just literally got tohave a meeting where my pitch
was basically, what do you hatedoing?
SPEAKER_04 (05:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:30):
Whatever you we're not here to disrupt, we're here
to take off whatever is plaguingyou, whatever the thorn in the
side, or any new initiativesthat you cannot do because you
don't have the capacity.
Yeah.
If you try to do this AI stuffyourself, you know, this is in
the retail spec, if you try todo this yourself, you're gonna
be spending a year and a halftrying to get your systems
together.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
You're trying to learn stuff that other people
have already figured out.
SPEAKER_03 (05:53):
We figured we've spent jobs of money and time and
expertise.
Well, you know what down thiswormhole.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
This is to me, it's just like when software started
becoming popular for to dothings like manage your finance
and accounting or your peoplescheduling or that kind of
thing.
And when I would see companiestell me, like, we're we've got
our own system that we createdthat does our billing or
whatever, I'd be like, Are youout of your friggin' mind when
(06:20):
there are specialized buildingsoftware?
Yeah, exactly.
That like millions of dollars ofRD has gone into and it's being
it's being used all over theplace and constantly refined,
but your one guy that sits backthere in a room is gonna figure
this out better than them.
SPEAKER_03 (06:38):
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:39):
It's freaking idiotic.
SPEAKER_03 (06:41):
Yeah, no, by the way, it costs you$200 a month
versus you know the$8,000 thatyou're paying somebody to sit
there and do that.
Your developer to sit there andwrite this.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
I mean, it's just it's the same thing with the AI.
SPEAKER_03 (06:52):
Exactly the same.
You can, you know, yes, you canget a quad subscription.
Great.
Congratulations.
Yes, you yes, you can useChatGPT or Gemini.
Sure.
But if you're trying to solvereal business problems, you need
to find specialty companies thathave already dug into that, and
every day they're mastering thevelocity.
Because like software, softwarewas chaotic to keep up with.
(07:13):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
New technologies, it was hard because it wouldn't
work on your pro on your networkand all that.
The machines were so criticalback then.
SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Yeah, it was just always a problem.
Always a problem.
Yeah.
AI is about 100 times that.
Yeah.
When you try to, if you're gonnatry to, as a company, to instill
AI tools and use the big largelanguage models and have
subscriptions, that's that'sgonna solve your unique business
challenges.
You're gonna have a 10 timesharder problem solving them than
you would, like for your exampleof trying to build something
(07:43):
internally.
Yeah, you're gonna get smoked.
Sure.
So the age of having of hiringspecialty AI companies, just
like you would with software, ishere.
Sure.
And we we don't need to try tobe all software developers.
Just because you can code clouddoesn't mean you should code.
No, that's so true.
I mean, it's it's the it's thetruth.
(08:04):
And and there's people out therethat don't have any business
acumen that are seeing anopportunity, and I've ran into a
lot of them.
Oh man, I've been digging, I'm aclaw claude master now.
I can do anything.
Yeah, you can do anything untilshit hits the fan, you know, and
some and there's been somesoccer penetration.
Yeah, exactly.
Are you tied into all the othersystems?
That's right.
(08:24):
The organization work.
Yeah.
There's a there's gonna be a lotof painful, well, painful uh uh
uh you know, crossing thebarriers on this stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, this may seem
tangential to you, but it's kindof like desktop publishing
software when it came out.
It's like you could be a masterof page maker or whatever.
Imagination.
Yeah, what you know, you'relike, you know how to use it.
But if you're not a very gooddesigner to start with, you just
because you know all thewhistles and bells and tools and
(08:54):
how to use them doesn't meanyour end product is gonna be
worth a damn.
That's right.
Right?
SPEAKER_03 (08:59):
It it's exactly the same.
And in the and so what peoplegotta be really uh conscious
about, I have never in my life,and you can hear it from about a
lot of people, you know, neverin my life have I seen such a
massive uh aggressive innovationof disruption than what's been
(09:19):
going on with AI.
And if you're gonna be somebodythat tries to internalize it by
using large language models thatare baked out for the entire
eco, you know, the entirenothing specialized about it.
Sure.
Then you're gonna then you'regonna try to hire to program in
that and put those piecestogether.
Number one, you're gonna have ahell of a time accomplishing
(09:40):
that.
Number two, mainly because theselarge language models are always
innovating.
So the second you start,everybody's all geeked out on
Claude right now.
Right.
Well, Claude's been around for along time.
Sure.
Everybody was geeked out on ChatGPT for a long time.
Now it's not, you know, nowClaude's taking it.
Guess what's gonna happen?
Gemini or OpenAI is gonna beatout Claude or X.
(10:02):
You know, they're gonna it'salways gonna be this thing.
And so when you built anecosystem based on Claude, and
then all of a sudden Geminicomes out with something that
just absolutely is far superior,and now all your competitors are
taking advantage of Gemini whileyou're stuck in Claude.
We're you we're still usingBlackBerries when iPhones are
have taken over, right?
(10:22):
That's exactly right, man.
It's just it's you're you'regonna be A behind them, but then
you'll be so far behind goingforward.
And so you just gotta be reallyconscious of it.
I mean, and you can't have bigconglomerate companies that are
now all of a sudden AI experts,right?
Because everybody can be an AIexpert right now.
You just go into Claude orGemini and you say, give me
(10:44):
talking points about an AIexpertise for our next meeting.
Sure.
And you can know all the talkingpoints, big shit and deal.
Yeah, right.
You know, it's it's that's beencommoditized.
Yes.
So you got to be able to procurebetter as a business person.
Like it's like really lookingfor a good vendor, just like we
always have, right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
So it's all about specialization.
It has been.
SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
If I want to do a direct mail campaign, yeah, and
I run down the street down toFedEx Kinkos because they can
print it.
Yeah.
Oh, we can mail it for you too.
Oh, can you?
Yeah.
That's great.
But are you a mailing house?
Do you have the bulk mailingfreaking permit?
No, they don't know what thehell.
They don't have list management.
They don't have they can't doall the dedupes and all those
other kinds of stuff.
Exactly.
(11:24):
And you can pay a small fortune.
So you go to a mailing house.
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
What do you need to mail?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Well, it's just like it's the same thing with houses,
you know.
I always get these calls frompeople.
They're like, Yeah, because theyknow I know something about it.
They're like, I need to get gota number of a good handyman.
And like, what do you need ahandyman for?
Well, I need to replace mykitchen faucet and then my I
want to put a new tile floor inmy master bath.
(11:50):
I'm like, hey, here's a novelidea for you.
Call up Kim Plumber.
Call the plumber for the faucet,and then call the tile guy for
the tile.
Because otherwise, the thehandyman's gonna butcher your
freaking faucet.
One or the other.
Okay.
And you'll be, yeah, and you'llbe paying a plumber to take out
his crap and fix it.
So you're paying for it twice.
(12:11):
And the same thing with the tileguy.
Get the expert.
I mean, it's just like I Iconstantly beat on my students
on this when it comes toattorneys.
I mean, that is just Oh, yeah.
Every field's like that.
Especially the legal field.
Every single field, thearchitecture and engineering
industry.
It's like I don't want peoplelearning at my expense.
(12:34):
Okay.
You know, if I'm doing a projectand I've got I'm doing a dental
clinic, find me somebody that'sdone freaking 50 dental clinics.
I'll guarantee you they knowshit that the guy who's never
done a dental clinic, I don'tcare how good that guy is or
what design awards he's won,okay?
(12:55):
Or she's won.
It's all about specialization.
SPEAKER_03 (12:58):
It's all about specialization.
And the big trap is that AI hasseemingly, by their own
propaganda, yeah, sort ofleveled the playing field.
It's not leveled for a damnthing, man.
It's actually worse.
Yeah, I get it.
You cannot have one subscriptionthat fits and fixes all your
problems.
That that is that is a dangerzone for two people going
(13:19):
through.
SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
It's like everything else, it's a tool.
SPEAKER_03 (13:22):
Even if you even if you don't use clock, you need to
have somebody that knows how toprompt specifically.
Exactly.
Maybe using that technology, butyou pay the person that's going
to be designing that flow.
And they go deep about a veryspecific thing.
SPEAKER_02 (13:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
You know, because I mean you can't find a
journalist, like you can't findan AI person, somebody just
knows AI, and now all of asudden you're your prompting
expert for your entireecosystem.
That's a bad deal.
Yeah.
Like they have a knowledge andexpertise in what the hell
they're prompting towards.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Exactly.
Well, it's just again, now thisto me is it it takes me back to
another one of my subjects I'mpassionate about.
And that is having people whoactually care and have a passion
for what the business does.
All right.
If I'm a restaurant, I wantpeople who love food or love
pleasing people, okay, or both.
(14:13):
All right.
If I'm in the friggin'motorcycle business, I want
people who love riders, lovebikes, know about bikes, can
work on bikes, ride bikesthemselves.
I don't want people that arejust like a good marketer.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because they're not gonna reallyget it when it comes down to it.
Yep.
You know, that's very true.
(14:34):
You gotta know something aboutwhat the business actually does
and have a passion for that.
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
That it goes through the whole thing.
Have you ever heard like Tom'smore valuable than money?
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
And I agree with that.
Especially when you're old.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Now, when you're young, it's the opposite.
Money's more valuable than time.
Seriously.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At some point in your life, youknow, first you trade off time
for money.
And at some point in your life,you start trading up money for
time, and then you get reallylazy.
Okay.
It's like there's people doingall kinds of shit they shouldn't
be doing.
SPEAKER_03 (15:06):
Well, we talk about like employees at a company like
you're talking about, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Their time is is very valuable,right?
If they spend the time andthey're showing up and they're
spending time, I found outsomething that's more valuable
than time.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:19):
That's the energy of that time.
Oh man, that's so true.
And what you were talking about,that passion, that's the value
of it.
If you choose a vendor that'spassionate about and is infusing
energy into the time thatthey're billing you, so much
better.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
You get a completely different result.
It's not like a little bitbetter, it's like 10 times or
100 times better.
That's right.
No, I totally understand whatyou're saying.
It well, it just stops being ajob for these people.
It it becomes their what theyare, it becomes their their
identity, it becomes theireverything, you know, to to
(15:59):
solve this problem, to make thiscustomer happy, to improve the
product.
SPEAKER_03 (16:05):
Yeah.
It's you know, I'm afraid tobring this stuff up.
This is gonna be a completecurveball.
Oh no, what?
I've got something I've beenI've been just ranting about
lately.
Okay, what's that?
It's driving me crazy.
Founder.
Oh, yeah.
I've seen it online.
I tried, I called you out.
Yeah, I was expecting more outof you, by the way.
You let me call me out.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
What am I supposed to do?
SPEAKER_03 (16:25):
I wanted you to get wig out with me.
I wanted you to just likerelease the dragon, the dark
drag dragon.
So basically the statement.
Well, it wasn't clear to me thatthat's what you wanted, or I
wouldn't have done it.
Next time I'll text you, sayrelease the dragon.
SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Okay, I I would be glad to do that.
But yeah, they are different.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
Very different in this whole mentality of
investors trying to findfounders.
Yeah.
And they skip over experienceproven, industry specialized,
expert, been there, done it,doing it again, entrepreneurs.
Right.
It is driving me absolutely outof my freaking brain.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
Well, a smart investor, you'd think, would be
able to realize the differencein the two, and the risk factor
of the former versus the latteris must be completely different.
SPEAKER_03 (17:11):
So, my here's my point.
If you're an investor, what doyou want?
You want return on yourinvestment.
That's the reason you're doingit.
SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
And the way and the way to get return on your
investment is to de-risk shitgoing back.
Exactly.
And you de-risk by experienceand wisdom gained in prior
successes and failures both.
SPEAKER_03 (17:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
I want somebody that is going tobe able to navigate the
ecosystem, not give up, yeah, ispassion behind what they're
doing, has already proven thatthey've been behind there.
So why do we keep, as acommunity and as a country, keep
promoting, become a founder, getan investor, do your pitch
decks, it's and get some moneyand capital.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
You know, that's real, I mean, it's it's pop
culture, but it's really funnybecause I had a conversation.
Um uh it was yeah, it wasyesterday.
Today's Wednesday, it wasyesterday.
The days fade for me because itgoes so freaking long and so
early.
I don't know about you, but Iwas up before 4 a.m.
today.
Yeah, okay.
But anyway, two really, reallysuccessful investors.
(18:17):
Yeah.
One of them had done sold acompany to Google.
Uh, they're doing all kinds ofstuff on really big scale.
Okay.
I mean, I won't even get intowho they are, but let's just say
super successful in theentertainment and business
world.
Two guys, all right.
And before we had this call,they said, Do you have a pitch
(18:38):
deck you could send us inadvance?
I said, I have no pitch deck,but I'll tell you anything you
want to know.
We got on the phone, we or Zoomor whatever the hell it was.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
You were in this meeting?
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yeah, it was me with these two guys.
We talked These two guys wereinvestors, or these are the
These are two guys areinvestors.
Okay.
Okay.
In a venture, potentialinvestors in a venture I'm
involved with.
Okay.
They said to me 10 times howrefreshing it was to talk to
somebody who was notbullshitting them with some kind
(19:08):
of a bullshit pitch deck, okay,to just give them the absolute
truth.
Yeah.
They were they were blown awayby that.
Okay.
Now, to me, it's obvious, it'slike, I don't want to waste your
time.
Yeah.
Why would I want to misrepresentanything and sell you?
I don't want to sell.
(19:29):
We know how dangerous that is.
SPEAKER_03 (19:30):
Can you imagine taking money from somebody and
you don't and you like themedia?
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (19:36):
You like I just am I screwing up?
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
Well, if you have any kind of conscience, okay.
There are some people that likeact like it's okay to look at.
They're professional pitchdeckers.
Yeah, exactly.
They don't care.
I mean, that to me is likeimmoralists.
Snakes.
Yeah.
Lizards.
But but I mean, yeah, it's itit's pop culture has created
this thing.
Okay.
I think there's starting to be amovement.
(20:02):
You think?
I do.
I I sense there is.
I I could be wrong.
SPEAKER_03 (20:06):
I'm telling you right now, like, I feel like
that the entrepreneurs in ourcommunity, especially, which we
are an entrepreneurialcommunity, this is what makes me
even more mad.
SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Well, we are here.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
The greatest entrepreneurs of all time have
come out of the entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
I know we are so underestimated.
SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
We are underestimated, it's
undervalued.
We have completely skipped theentrepreneur spirit.
Yeah.
And we're trying to invent andfabricate one that's based upon
the West Coast.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
And they're well, dude, it's kind of like though,
Bentonville is almost like a oh,what do I want to say?
It's like a model for that in away.
It's like, let's create thisunbelievable world out of
nothing.
Right.
Okay.
Right.
And do it.
Out of gravel roads.
Yeah, in about two or threeyears.
(20:51):
And you're like, we got a wholenew hip, cool place to be.
It's like you can't do thingslike that in a way.
It's like it's too, it, it, itbecomes artificial.
Plastic.
Yeah, it becomes just like whatyou're saying about the
entrepreneurial e-commerce.
SPEAKER_03 (21:05):
Yeah, but you can't play with that part, right?
You can play with the buildingsand the infrastructure and
create that community.
But when you get down torunning, starting, having a
business with successful expertsthat compound and continue to
employ and build economics,farting around with a bunch of
founders that have never done abusiness in their life.
(21:26):
Yeah.
Because they have a greatpresentation and they're saying
literally, I've been around thisspace.
Well, you know more about itthan I.
I mean, I I hear it too, though.
I can't.
I'll sit there and I'll tellI'll tell some of these, these,
these uh groups, I'm like,here's my business.
And like, well, which series areyou on right now?
Are you on AA plus?
I don't even know what they'retalking about half the time.
(21:46):
What the hell are you talkingabout, bro?
I need some money and I've gotsome revenue and I'm driving to
the next ceiling, man.
Let's freaking go.
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
It's like I only like to have one class of stock
in anything I get involved with.
Period.
You can buy in or you can notbuy in.
SPEAKER_03 (22:00):
It's irrelevant, man.
You put in or out.
Do you want to make a hundred Xof your money?
Because that's what I thinkyou're supposed to do.
I've been here, done it before.
Exactly.
Why would you not invest?
Yeah.
Give me the re because itdoesn't follow the right
procedure.
Quit trying to.
The worst thing that you couldever do is try to box in and put
together a perfect puzzle pieceof business.
(22:22):
No kidding.
It is absolutely a excuse me,war zone.
It's chaos.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
It's chaos.
And then every once in a while,something like emerges out of
the the stuff.
Okay.
All the shit you've been talkingfor years.
Whoa.
And it just like crawls out ofthe soup.
SPEAKER_03 (22:42):
And it's like the problem.
Oh my god, let's go for thatone.
That one's working for me.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
It stops breathing water.
It starts breathing air, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the that's whatbusinesses.
But see, I but the the the Imean, and again, I I think part
of the problem is there's thispreoccupation with inventing
something new.
Not everything has to be new,and it's super risky.
Super a new business withsomething inventing something
(23:11):
new and then creating a newbusiness around it, it's the
absolute riskiest thing you cando.
SPEAKER_03 (23:15):
Did Sam Walton create a new No.
Did did uh did uh Don Tysoncreate something new?
Did Procter and Gamble createsomething new?
No, no.
Everyone's no.
I know.
The only things that are new arehappening in silicon, and we're
trying to re-replicate thatmodel is the most dangerous,
risky thing you could do.
Exactly.
That's when right here we haveproven success of just being
(23:38):
great entrepreneurs.
SPEAKER_01 (23:39):
But see, that's to me, is why we're doing this
podcast, though.
That's fair.
It's to to to sort of umdemystify this stuff and and
hammer and beat down thesemisconceptions that people have
about what it takes to build asuccessful business.
SPEAKER_03 (23:59):
Yeah.
Right?
You know, because why why itsucks is because you work with
these students all the time.
SPEAKER_04 (24:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
Students might have an idea and it could be great,
and they have a passion towardsthe idea, and they have an
attitude like they're going tosacrifice their blood, their
family, everything under the sunbecause to go after this vision
that they have.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden youhave somebody come in, uh, you
know, have you built your pitchdeck?
Your pitch deck needs to be atleast only 10 pages.
(24:24):
And you must only use 30-pointfont.
And you must build a performer.
Have you thought about this?
Let's have a five-year forecastthat's never gonna freaking come
true.
And make sure you have anexecutive summary.
And then let me introduce you tothese investors.
Which series are you lookingfor?
Are you looking for pre-pre prepre pre pre pre seed?
Or are you looking for pre seed?
(24:46):
Just pre-pre pre seed.
Or just pre pre pre pre seed.
And you're just like, whatyou've done is you've taken an
entrepreneur and you put theminto this complete fabricated
program.
What's your burn rate?
What is your burn rateexpectation for the next 17
years?
What's my return on investment?
You know, what's I mean, dude,like, no.
(25:07):
What you need to do as anentrepreneur, we don't like
chains.
Yeah.
No.
And what you've done is you'veyou've crushed the entrepreneur
and you've invited founders andprofessional salespeople.
Yeah, and that that's that's itright there.
And then that's to me.
Here's what makes me upset aboutMartin.
Sure, I got my I've got myfeelings hurt about a little
bit, just personally, becauseit's like, dude, what else do I
(25:29):
got to do?
Do I have to do this 10 moretimes?
I'm gonna be 90 years old by thetime I'm like, oh shit, let's
invest in him, you know?
And then he's got going.
You've got a proven trackrecord.
No, but it doesn't matter.
That's what's so frustratingabout it.
You would think like, my God,yeah.
It's not just me.
There's 10 of us around here.
No, I can't do it.
None of us get anything.
No, I think.
Oh, by the way, here's the otherthing.
Yeah.
If they want to invest, uh,yeah, I usually only invest
(25:52):
about 50,000 in pre-preceedrounds, and that's all the
investors we have.
It's like, dude, that's notgonna do it.
I will freaking spit$50,000 inthe game.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
I can go get$50,000 on my frigging discover card.
I mean, I don't have to answerthat.
Exactly.
Why would I it's probably likeinterest free for the first year
or some shit.
Here's the best thing.
6.99%.
SPEAKER_03 (26:17):
And here's the best part.
In order for you to get my$50,000, I need to see your
entire business plan.
Yeah.
And so now as an entrepreneur,I'm like, bro, like, do you want
me to like give you all my tradesecrets?
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
Like, hell no, baby.
It's not even that.
That's that's part of it.
But the other part of it is thefact that real entrepreneurs in
my mind are constantly adaptingand reacting to opportunities
that come up.
We can't, we don't plan everysingle thing, but what we do is
we cast a million hooks in thewater.
(26:49):
And then the odds are in ourfavor that we'll be successful.
And you keep talking and youkeep learning and you keep
adapting and evolving.
And it you you can't you can'tlay it all out like that.
No, if you've got to bereactive.
The thing is, though, to designan organization that quickly
reacts to changes in in themarket and opportunities that
(27:11):
you spot, right?
100%.
You've got to be fast.
Yeah.
That's my great frustration withso many businesses.
SPEAKER_03 (27:19):
And it and if you get that capital and you try to
divert from the plan, yeah.
Oh, God, no, don't do that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Then you're not a real professional.
Okay, we need to getprofessional managers in here
because these entrepreneurs havetheir heads up their ass.
Let's get some professionalmanagers in here to tell them
how to do things properly.
That's right.
That's what I read in a book.
It said that we hit a certainstage and the founder needs to
go, and then we get theprofessional managers in, and
(27:48):
then they turn into bureaucrats,and then we go down the friggin'
toilet.
SPEAKER_03 (27:52):
Okay.
We need professional managers sowe can start the flywheel
effect.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, the flywheel, man.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Yeah, bruh.
Bruh.
You're trying to sound like my15-year-old just calling me.
SPEAKER_03 (28:03):
But the worst part about this is that if we
overlook in this community, thistrue entrepreneurship, it's
they're missing out.
Yeah, well, it's gonna hurt thefreaking entire economy.
Well, sure it is.
Because I mean, like, what areyou gonna have?
You don't have any moreentrepreneurship, or you're
you're you're putting a cap onwhat you have.
It's just it's absolutelyasinine to me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Well, it's it's why it's always best if you can just
bootstrap it and not get anybodyelse involved.
But the pro problem is that somethings are big problems and they
take capital to solve.
Yeah, it yeah, it's really true.
SPEAKER_03 (28:35):
What's dawned on me lately, though, this is my
breath of fresh air.
Okay.
Through all this frustration, myepiphany is I invest in my
people that are with me.
I give them opportunity.
Right, those are the ones I wantto be exactly benefit from the
success of the energy.
That they bring to this companyevery day.
(28:57):
If I if they can have if theycan multiply their energy, yeah,
I don't even need capital.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:03):
Well, that's it.
I always said, okay, I'm sorry,I didn't mean to interrupt you,
but it's it's you know, peopleare like, you know, I've studied
management my whole life, okay?
And it's like, well, how do Imotivate people?
I don't want to motivate people.
What I want to do is notdemotivate people.
So many businesses suck thatlife force out of their people.
(29:26):
That's fair because they forcethem into these constraints and
boxes that they shouldn'tnecessarily be in.
You see what I mean?
Yeah.
And so, yeah, you want tounleash that potential of your
people.
SPEAKER_03 (29:39):
Unleash the creativity.
Yes.
Don't don't put don't try to getthem to obey.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
That's it.
It it as soon as you force themto obey, they may do it for a
little while, but then they'regonna rebel and they're not
gonna want to be treated likethat.
I'll never forget I hired a kidyears ago, he's about a year or
two out of school, and he workedfor a company where he had to
ask to go to the bathroom.
No, and this is a guy with afour-year degree in business.
(30:08):
I mean, can you imagine treatingsomebody like that?
That's so that's so lawful.
I know.
Can I go to the bathroom likeyou're a kindergarten?
Exactly.
That's terrible.
I mean, I think we do a lot ofdeath by meeting, I think death
by bureaucracy, yeah,unnecessary reporting, tracking,
(30:29):
you know, things.
Like you said, not take nottaking the friction out of the
system for your people.
I mean, your job as the leaderis to like give them the tools
and clear the roadblocks out ofthe way to get them to be able
to do what they can do.
SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:44):
But yeah, this this whole thing, I mean, you know, I
think the problem, truthfully,though, is if you look at like
the VC model, okay, it's allbased on a lot of failures and a
big success.
And that's a bad model.
I'd rather go with the WarrenBuffett approach.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
You know what I mean?
Where it's like, let's have like80% successes.
You know?
Yeah, because we're not it's atotally different mentality.
SPEAKER_03 (31:16):
Yeah, and then if you could invest, if you could
really invest in realentrepreneurs, proven your risk
goes down, risk goes weighted.
Yep.
Now, of course, you're not gonnabe able to have them behold to
you as investors.
If you're not gonna go, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You may not know everything they're gonna do or
approve of every single thingthey're gonna do.
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
That's right.
Yeah, and that might be part ofthe tension problem.
Oh, it is, yeah, because I wouldnot be like if somebody invested
in my company, I'm not gonna beyour typical founder who've
never done it before.
I'm just gonna listen toeverything you say.
Yeah.
Because I actually I should, asthe entrepreneur, know more
about what the hell's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Exactly.
But but you're right, though.
I think you deal with people whohave the money to invest, they
are used to people doing whatthey want.
Okay.
That's the they've been doing ita long, and because they have
the gold, the golden rule is heor she has the gold rules.
So they're used to thatcompliance, but that compliance
(32:16):
is the last thing they reallyshould want out of their
companies that they're puttingmoney into.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (32:22):
You know, man, and I get it.
Like I've uh, you know, I've I'msomewhat of a hybrid these days.
You know, I have a little bit toinvest in some things, and I've
made some mistakes, right?
You know, and so I know whatit's like to kind of like be a
little bit fearful about where Iput in place in my life.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
God jokes, I I hear you, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Um, but you know, I think what I've learned real
quickly is that it's really theperson that's driving that
company.
It comes down to that.
Do they have the businessacumen?
Do they have the proven trackrecord?
And the motivation andcommitment level.
Yes.
Sacrifice mentality, yes, thefreaking, you know.
(33:00):
I mean, are these people theones not sleeping because
they're thinking so much anddoing so much every day?
That's what I want.
Yeah, that's all you want rightthere.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
The little little bit of the crazy.
Yeah, well, I mean, nothing getsdone by reasonable people.
I mean, let's face it.
Unreasonable people accomplishgreat things.
That's right, man.
So I yeah, I'm totally with you.
And it makes a lot of sense tome.
And there's just a millionreasons we have the problem that
we have.
And in it, you know, it's it'spop culture, it's the
(33:30):
educational system.
I mean, I've said this before.
If you look at entrepreneurshipprograms, I don't care what
school you want to talk about,the majority of them focus on
one thing cold new venturestartups.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Pitch competitions, business plan competitions, all
the stuff that is not reallywhat the real world is about.
That's right.
There's very little informationout there on buying existing
companies, growing throughacquisition, finding key people,
like what partners do you reallywant to get in bed with?
I mean, there's all the stuffthat is really gonna impact your
(34:06):
success.
Yeah.
It's it's just not it's nottalked about, it's not taught,
it's not emphasized.
And then you get out there, andwhat do we have?
We got Shark Tank.
SPEAKER_03 (34:15):
Yep.
Okay.
Yep.
That's been, yep, that's beencompletely glorified.
SPEAKER_01 (34:19):
It's all shark tank.
We got sharks out there and theyknow everything.
And yeah, which I don't hat inhand.
SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
Can you give me some money for my stupid ass fuck
freaking business?
And then they negotiate aboutequity, you know, and it's you
start out with a contentiousrelationship right out of the
gate.
Exactly.
Like you know, this is the way Itell this to the team a lot.
If you go buy a car for fivegrand, yeah, the second you
write that check, you'reexcited.
Yeah.
But when you write that checkand you leave that car, you're
(34:47):
like, Did I make a gooddecision?
Oh, yeah.
And I'm sitting here looking ateverything.
Buyers remorse, buyers and morecognitive dissidents.
But investors immediately, youknow, now they're hawkeyeing
you, making sure that every stepand there's all they're they're
just looking for a problem.
That you're right.
Whereas an entrepreneur, youcan't be somebody that's stutter
stepping around.
You can't be an analysisparalysis.
(35:08):
Yes.
You know, you have to have ahigh amount of self-confidence
in what you're doing.
Yes.
You know, I mean, you're gonnahave to hear the word no, but
you can't have somebody that'sgot you and that's sitting there
trying to give you directionbecause and having you feel like
that if I don't do what theysay, they're out, and that's
gonna put me in a bad position.
Yeah, if I do what they say andI think that they're wrong, I'm
(35:28):
in a bad position.
Yeah, like that's a veryvulnerable state to be in.
SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
I I think, but I think the the the entrepreneur a
lot of times creates their ownmess.
Okay.
I mean, it's like I had a guyask me the other day, well, how
do you adjust it?
Where'd you come up with$33 ashare?
I said, arbitrarily.
He goes, Well, is that I mean,how do we know that's the right?
I go, if people are buying thestock at$33 a share, it's the
(35:55):
right value.
How's that?
I swear to you, I said that, andyou know what the guy did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it's I didn't go intoany, I I said you could, there's
no rational means I could comeup with that would justify this
valuation, other than the factthat people buy it.
People will buy it for that, andthat's and if you don't want to
(36:19):
pay that, that's fine.
We're not gonna sell it to you.
That's the other thing, youknow?
SPEAKER_03 (36:24):
It's like you overinflate a lot of those
things too much, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
Yeah, there's always somebody with someone.
We gotta justify it.
Yeah, everything is overjustification to to the experts.
Well, I mean, look, a lot of it,again, uh we've got cultural
problems, we've got educationalproblems, we got societal values
problems, all these things arehurting us.
(36:51):
Okay.
It all it all combines to hamperthe entrepreneur from doing what
it is that they should be doing,which is out there creating
businesses, solving problems,employing people, growing,
creating wealth.
SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
We've allowed the outside.
I want to be secure, I want tohave no risk, I want to live, I
want to, you know, live foreverand not get sick and you know,
and protect everything that Ihave, live in air conditioned,
yeah.
Like escape from the real worldproblems and the discomfort
(37:34):
existence and try to push thaton to an entrepreneur, a real
entrepreneur that is actuallyliving in a playing field, is
playing is playing ball everyday.
SPEAKER_05 (37:44):
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SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
I want to play ball until I am carried out on a
freaking stretcher.
Okay?
I do not want to be a spectator.
Yeah, I that's always why I wasnever a big fan of spectator
sports.
I always said, I'll be a player.
That's I feel the same way.
SPEAKER_03 (38:14):
It's funny you say that.
Like everybody's like, are yougoing to the game?
Like, I don't watch sports.
Yeah, I don't go to games now, Iknow watch it on TV.
Like you play sports.
Yeah, I mean, I'll play your ownsports.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I mean, I love playing footballand I mean you never catch me
like just sitting aroundwatching.
Yeah.
You know, because it's just not,you know, I mean, yeah, you want
(38:36):
to be in the game.
Yeah, I can't spectate, I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
Yeah, you want to be, you want to be in the game.
It's the whole, you're right.
I mean, but again, it's acultural value, societal thing,
comfort, reduction of risk, suchthat I, you know, I see these
things.
How can you retire on twomillion dollars a year or
whatever?
You know, and I mean, look, Idon't have the most resources in
(38:59):
the world.
Hell, I've got two ex-wives Isupport and a current one and
five kids.
Okay.
One of them's going to freakingthe French Alps here.
You know, it's like, you knowwhat I'm talking about.
Okay.
I got overhead, dude.
My Amex so far, I looked at itthis morning, it's$37,000 for
(39:20):
the month.
And where are we?
It's the 22nd of the month.
By the end of the day.
SPEAKER_03 (39:26):
So I got 10 more days.
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (39:27):
By the end of the day, it'll be higher.
But but it's like white peoplelike my kids, they go, Well, why
do you move every two years?
Because I move every two yearsbecause I got a chance to make
over 500K and I tax free on myown home.
And yes, is it inconvenient?
Is it risky?
(39:48):
Maybe I won't, you know, I buyanother house before I sell
mine.
Oh my God.
What if I don't sell my house?
I've got two expensive housessimultaneously.
That'll be a bitch, right?
It'll be a pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
How do you think about that?
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
I mean, just the worst thing is I'll have to cut
my price and I'll make lessmoney on my current house than I
would make.
I'll still make money on it,though.
Don't get me wrong.
All right.
That's the worst thing that'sgoing to happen to me.
Okay.
People can't see that though.
Like if I went to my sister andI said, my house is going to
(40:21):
sell for 2.2 million, and I'mgoing to buy this one over here
and invest half a million in itafter I buy it.
And then I'm going to put myhouse on the market.
She would be like having acoronary.
You're going to do what?
What if you can't sell yourhouse?
Oh my God, that's terrible.
You know, what it's like a shortcircuit.
(40:42):
It's like Barolis sets in.
You know?
But you do it because itadvances your goals.
It allows you to live yourlifestyle.
It's a smart move financially.
It costs 18,000 bucks to move.
It's a pain in the ass.
Whatever.
We get to buy new furniture.
(41:02):
I buy all new TVs.
Okay.
I mean, do you sell all yourexisting furniture?
What do you do with all the Idon't get I don't buy everything
new, but I do buy some.
Yeah.
When you got as many kids as Ido, there's always somebody that
wants your furniture to get ridof.
That's fair.
Okay.
I buy all new TVs though.
I really every time you move.
Every time I move.
One brand.
One brand.
What's the brand?
(41:22):
One remote.
High sense.
It's cheap.
I buy them at Walmart.
They're great.
And I buy high sense soundsystems that go with them.
So everything works on oneremote.
I don't need a Roku adapter.
I don't need a separate remotefor the freaking surround sound.
Okay.
You can get them up to 100inches.
I got my program.
(41:43):
I'm buying 10 new TVs.
10 new TVs for it.
Yeah.
But I'm just saying, and youknow what the cost of this, by
the way?
$4,900.
Yeah.
For 10 new TVs.
10 new TVs.
And the sound system.
TVs are so cheap right now.
Yeah.
It's mind-boggling.
We're going to buy all new gymequipment too.
Are you?
I'm going to leave that there.
Oh, yeah.
I'm buying new.
(42:03):
But I'm just saying, it's ayeah, it's a risk.
You take it, but think aboutwhat that does.
For us to make a half a milliondollars, we're probably at least
in a 40% total tax bracket.
When you come to the federaltaxes and the state, right?
You'd have to make uh 800,000 inorder to get the five.
(42:25):
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Eight if and I don't know aboutyou, but if somebody wants to
give me$800,000 every two years,I'm gonna take it.
Okay.
Exactly.
It's just I get$500,000 of thatincome tax-free.
Yeah.
If it's your primary residence.
(42:45):
Yes.
And you're married.
SPEAKER_03 (42:47):
And you don't have to pay the capital gains.
SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
No capital gains.
As long as you put it back inthe new house.
No, you don't even have to putit back in a new house.
SPEAKER_03 (42:53):
You can do it if you kept it, then you'll just you
know use it all and right.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Every two years you can do that.
But I'm just saying, again, it'sall part of this risk, comfort,
discomfort question.
SPEAKER_03 (43:06):
People don't want to feel like they're putting
something at risk.
SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:11):
They're scared of the risk.
SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (43:13):
They're scared of what might happen because
they've been told horrorstories.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Yes.
What you always, I think theentrepreneur always has to ask
them.
Whenever I start getting scaredof risk, which I'm not gonna say
I haven't ever been.
Of course, yeah.
I always think to myself, what'sthe worst thing that's gonna
happen?
Yeah.
What is the very worst thingthat could happen to you?
Yeah.
Well, you move into a rentalhouse somewhere for 2,500 bucks
(43:40):
a month and live in asubdivision.
Okay, I could do that if I hadto.
Go mow yards if you need to.
Yeah.
Freaking pick up track.
I wouldn't even have to do that.
I mean, you know what I'msaying?
I mean, I'm sure I can giveenough cash coming in to support
like that lifestyle just basedon what I make at the university
and social security or whatever.
It's like What's the worst thingthat's gonna happen to you?
(44:02):
I don't get to drive Porschesand I drive a friggin' new Kia.
They're pretty damn nice.
They are pretty damn nice.
Okay.
Have you driven a Kia like guys?
I rent them all the time.
I'm like, God, for 22 grand, youcan buy this.
SPEAKER_03 (44:15):
I'll see Kiya's coming home.
I'm like, oh, that's a nice raincover and it pulls up like a
Kia?
SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
I'm like, that's a Kia.
I just did that the other day.
I'm like, that thing looks likea friggin' BMW.
Okay.
But I'm just saying, you have tosay to yourself, what's the
worst thing that's going tohappen to me?
Right.
Okay.
And you know, the worst thingthat's going to happen is
something happens to your kidsor your wife.
Yeah.
And then your own health.
(44:41):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (44:42):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (44:42):
Those are the bad things that's the health that
are going to be.
And it's all about health.
It's all about health.
It has nothing to do with themoney side.
So if you can separate yourselffrom that and realize we live in
a great country.
Yeah.
And you're going to be able toeke out a living if you got any
motivation at all.
Don't even have to be smart.
Okay.
You just need to show up and getat it.
(45:02):
Yeah.
Exactly.
So take all that aside.
Then your attitude toward restchanges.
Okay.
Unless you're just so wrapped upon the trappings of success.
Yeah.
Which I know you're not.
Right.
And I'm not.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:19):
Okay.
It's contribution.
SPEAKER_01 (45:21):
Right.
Wrapped up in the trappings.
The trappings do nothing foryou.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (45:27):
Yeah.
It's it's what you accomplish.
That's the only way you reallyfeel good.
So all this stuff comes, youknow.
That again, that's why we'redoing this podcast.
We're trying to change the waypeople think.
Yeah.
(45:47):
Small business owners areprobably too risk-averse.
Yeah.
People out there looking forcapital, they're too
risk-averse.
SPEAKER_03 (45:56):
Yeah.
Because you're asking forsomebody else to flip your bill.
Yep.
You know, and that is a problem,man.
That's a I think that'sdamaging.
I mean, number one, you you'reyou're overlooking and damaging
the existing trueentrepreneurial ecosystem.
Number two, you could be puttingsomebody in a very, very bad
position.
Oh, yeah.
You know, that that that couldhurt them personally and hurt
(46:18):
other people and all this othertype of stuff.
And it's that's all a high riskscenario from a group of folks
that are trying to minimize therisk.
Yeah.
It doesn't make any sense to me.
I mean, somebody proved mewrong.
Yeah.
You know, but I mean a one outof ten ratio is not really a
good idea.
And I mean, Silicon Valley'sdoing it, but I mean or one out
(46:38):
of twenty.
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
But I mean, is that model?
I mean, it's it's just hype andit's going on there, but I mean,
they have a whole ecosystem.
All the banks and everybody wellis pouring over there to play
that that that gamble.
SPEAKER_01 (46:52):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (46:53):
Why would we want to take that kind of gamble on?
SPEAKER_01 (46:56):
Our whole culture and economic environment in this
place we're in, it's not basedon that at all.
As you said, these this is notbased on invention, it's based
on doing things better.
Yep, building a better mousetrapversus inventing a mousetrap.
That's right.
Yeah, it's it's it's where theopportunity is, and it's so much
less risky.
(47:16):
I I tell you, and you know,again, I can't tell you, I've
seen over a thousand businessesthat my students have worked
with that just imagine that whatyou can learn by looking at
that.
Okay.
And you see the same mistakesover and over and over again.
Yeah.
It's it's no marketing, hiringanybody good, complaining about
(47:42):
their people, but doingabsolutely nothing for their
people.
It's just the bad accounting, nobad customer service, bad
customer service, and justshaking it off.
You know.
SPEAKER_03 (47:58):
What an entrepreneur knows, like I'll tell you what
would make me wig out is if acustomer that's paying me,
paying our company for value,and we don't return their call,
or we don't are prompt andurgent about servicing them if
we're not at their beck andcall, I think that I will wig
out, man.
SPEAKER_01 (48:17):
I read every review and every comment on social
media.
100%.
And I want to respond to itaccordingly to make them happy.
SPEAKER_03 (48:26):
When I see somebody leave me a review on Google five
stars, I'm just like, it makesmy entire day.
Of course.
I feel so much pride and in theworld.
That's why you're doing allthis.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, thank you somuch for taking the time.
Yes.
I mean, that means a lot to us.
Of course it's our lifeblood ofthis business.
Exactly.
But a founder with a pitch deckwould probably be, you know,
having a razor series 35K.
(48:51):
That's what they're worriedabout.
That's not entrepreneurism.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
All right, man.
Hey, we gotta end this show.
We wigged out a little bit,didn't we?
We did, but it was it was funwigging out, and it's always
therapeutic.
SPEAKER_03 (49:01):
That's the dragon I was looking for on LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01 (49:04):
Well, next time you gotta warn me.
I'll be glad to deliver.
You know I will if I I know whatI what's needed.
I try to deliver.
That's fair.
All right.
Well, hey, everybody.
Um, send us your questions.
Yeah.
Send us your ideas for topicsyou want us to talk about.
Yeah.
And and uh it's www.bigalowbusiness.
(49:29):
Small business.
Small, excuse me, big talk aboutsmall business.com.
I was telling one of my friendsabout the show today, and he's
like, small talk about bigbusiness.
I'm like, no, big talk aboutsmall business.
That's right.
Okay, huge difference.
Yeah.
But uh, but anyway, um, untilnext week.
This has been another greatepisode of Big Talk About Small
(49:51):
Business.
SPEAKER_00 (49:59):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(50:20):
Business.
And be sure to head over to ourwebsite to read articles, browse
episodes, and ask questionsabout upcoming shows.
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