Sell Through Trust: Building Real Relationships

Sales is the part of business most people want to outsource first, and it’s also the part you can’t afford to ignore. We get real about why founders have to sell early on, even if they’re introverted, technical, or allergic to the “salesy” stereotype. For us, selling is simple: understand the problem, tell the truth, and earn trust one conversation at a time. That mindset matters even more in B2B sales, where the buyer is choosing a long relationship, not a quick transaction.

We talk through the habits that actually build a pipeline in small business: showing up in your community, treating every meeting like it matters, and staying persistent through the follow-up grind. You’ll hear why small gestures can keep you top of mind, why confidence dips are normal, and why integrity closes deals faster than clever scripts. We also dig into a value-first approach where contribution comes before margin, and how the “hidden” benefits of marketing and reputation often beat what your spreadsheets can measure.

Then we shift into the hard part: hiring salespeople. Great sales interviews can fool you, psychological tests can be gamed, and the real issue is belief. If a salesperson doesn’t believe the product is worth the price, they won’t last. We break down the real math behind performance, why the salesperson is carrying payroll, and how splitting the sales process into prospecting, founder-led closing, and operational follow-through can reduce risk. We wrap with how to coach a new hire through the first 100 days and how sharing customer stories can get your whole team aligned.

If this helps, subscribe, share the show with a business owner who needs a sales reset, and leave a review so more people can find us. What’s the one sales habit you want to build next?

Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
For a lot of people that are hiring salespeople, do
they need to really understandmy industry?
Did they come out of myindustry?
Do they come out of the types ofclients that we are trying to go
sell to?
Back in the studio today.

(00:21):
It's another episode of that bigtalk about small business.

SPEAKER_02 (00:30):
It's freaking awesome.com.
Sign up, subscribe, send usmoney.
Send us products.

SPEAKER_03 (00:37):
Send us money.
Send us money.
Send us money.
We'll talk up your product if welike it, though.
That's right.
We're not just for sale at anyprice here.
So we have our standards.

SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Let's let's kick off about talking about sales.
So if you're starting abusiness, I would say the most
important number one thing thatyou could do.
Skill to have.
Skill, action, priority,freaking investment towards.
Yeah.

(01:11):
Sales.
Yes.
And finding you a good salesstructure, team, director,
associates, presentations,sales, sales, sales, sales.
Because like we talked about,there's only problems in
business.
They're either good or bad.
Right.
Sales brings good problems.
Everything else brings badproblems.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32):
Yes.
The the good part about sales isyou get revenue, right?
Yes.
The bad part is you actuallyhave to do it.
That's right.
That's right.
But who cares as long as youhave the revenue?
Exactly.
You can do it.
Figure that out, right?
Yeah.
100%.
I mean, it starts with you,though, as the owner.
You've got to be able to sell,right?

(01:52):
If you can't sell it, nobody'sgoing to do it for you,
probably.
100%.

SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
And you don't have to be, quote unquote, a good
salesperson.
But you have to be the one outthere doing sales.
You're always selling as theentrepreneur.
As a matter of fact, most of thegreat entrepreneurs I've met are
excellent at selling.
Yeah.
And they may not be trying tosell, but they know the product
intimately.
They see the vision.
They are out there.
They're they're having cconversations with their

(02:19):
clientele, making custom type ofproject plans and scopes, and
they can make the decisions.

SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
You know?
They know what problem itsolves.
Yes.
That yes.
Isn't that fundamental?
100%.
I mean, 100%.
But you're so right about thatwhen you say you don't have to
be the quote sales persona thata lot of people think is
required, you know, that you'resome super extrovert or
whatever.
You really don't.

SPEAKER_02 (02:47):
You can you can be a lead programmer, entrepreneur,
starting your business, like wehad we've had a couple of folks
in here talking about.
But remember the oneconversation we had, he's a
great programmer, has the ideaabout Sean.
Yeah, Sean.
Yeah.
Sean doesn't want to be the oneselling.
Right.
But you can't do that, Sean, ifyou're listening to this

(03:08):
episode.
That's true, Sean.
And we talked, we talked aboutthat.
Yeah.
And I feel like that he kind ofdisregarded, because no nobody
wants to admit that that's whatneeds to be happening, because
that's like a that's that issuch an uncomfortable territory
for him.
Yep.
But he the reality is, is likehe is still the best salesperson
for the entire organization.
And he has to be leaned intothat.

(03:29):
He has to absolutely be leanedinto it.

SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Yeah.
I mean, I think about like JoeSumweber, who was also on our
show.
Joe is not your stereotypicalsalesperson.
The glib, fast talker, uh,extrovert.
No, I I mean, I think Joe'sprobably an introvert.
Yeah.
But he's solid.
He's not full of bull.
Okay.
He's sincere.

(03:52):
Yep.
He understands what the problemis and how they're going to
solve it.
Yep.
Selling to me is solvingsomebody's problem.
100%.
It's not convincing them to dosomething they don't want to do.
Right.
I mean, especially when you lookat like B2B sales.
Yeah.
You know, it it it I mean, maybeB2C sales people make more

(04:14):
impulsive purchases, right?
But in a business, uh it's got alot of impacts.

SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
The client needs to understand fully.
They need to have confidence andhave trust.
It's a longer relationship.
Yes.
Hopefully.
Yeah.
And it takes more for a businessto get you procured into their
system.
And I mean, so there's a lot ofupfront work.
And so the decision's heavier.
So they have to do a lot ofdiligence and all that.

SPEAKER_03 (04:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (04:38):
You know, and but to have somebody like a Joe, you
know, that can sit across thetable, answer all the questions,
you know, deep in the weeds, beable to click play credible,
yes, build trust.
Give the confidence that they'regoing to go through all this
painstaking process as the buyerto get you in the system that
you're going to have their backand fix problems.

SPEAKER_03 (04:58):
Yeah, exactly.
You know?
Yeah, it's so true.
You know, so what are some ofthe things that you found just
off the top of your head madeyou the most effective seller?
Because you've always been agreat seller.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Yeah, I think that uh my personal experience, uh, I
mean, I would say the number onething is, and this is a really
hard one, not maybe in thebeginning.
Okay.
If it's your first time, when Ifirst started my first business,
this was just a natural thing Idid.
And like it was exciting andexhilarating.
It wasn't exhausting to me.

(05:32):
And that's just being connectedand meeting people.
Sure.
There is no such thing to me asa bad meeting, like or a waste
of time meeting, right?
What I'm calling bad.
Like every single person thatI've ever met my entire life has
kind of built this opportunityinertia.
And it just keeps widening andwidening and widening the older
I get, right?

SPEAKER_03 (05:52):
You're so know people and you're so right on
that.
Yeah.
Can I just jump in on that?
Yeah.
Because like last night and andwell, Monday and Tuesday, I had
in my three classes Wes Taylor,who's the president of NWA
Steel, which is going to be likea$30 million company this year.
That's great.
From a million dollar company in2013 or whatever.

(06:18):
I mean, it's unbelievable.
But you know, it's exactly whathe said last night in my class.
He goes, you know what?
He goes, everybody out here, hegoes, you all could be my client
someday.
Okay.
You could be my biggest client.
My business may depend on you.
And it's that type of attitudeof treating everybody with

(06:40):
kindness, respect, uh, givingthem your attention that builds
that goodwill of that thing thatyou just said.
Because we're all connected.
100%.
And you know, especially whenyou start again talking about
either a business that serves alocal market, which a lot of our
small business owners do, or abusiness that's focused on an

(07:01):
industry.
Yes.
Very tightly focused on oneindustry.
Because it might as well belocal, even though that could be
all over the world, right?
Because everybody talks andeverybody moves between all
those organizations.

SPEAKER_02 (07:13):
There's there's no there's nothing better than
having a reference when you go,if I met you, and then I say,
Hey, and you mention, you know,somebody's name, um, you know,
Donnie Hubbard or something, youknow, Donnie.
Sure.
And then I'm like, yeah, I'veknown Donnie.
And then you I'll leave, andthen you run into Donnie and
say, Hey, I've been meeting withEric.
Right.

(07:34):
What do you think about him?
Is what you're gonna say.
Exactly.
Donnie's gonna be like, dude,he's great.
Been working with him for years,totally solid.
Yeah, he and what he does isreally he does what he says he
can do.
Right?
It's like and God knows you justclose the deal.

unknown (07:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (07:50):
But it's because I didn't screw Donnie.
Exactly.
You know, and I was but my pointin the beginning was is I showed
up in places as much as possibleto have the chance to even meet
Donnie five years ago, ten yearsago.
You're right, yeah.
And so, you know, what I foundis most effective, and so in the

(08:11):
beginning, that's that's kind ofeasy, especially because you're
just kind of ignorant, you know,in entrepreneurship, you know,
you're you're get you're naiveabout all the the pains that are
about to come unfolding upacross your entire existence of
life, but you're excited.
Well, you don't know everybodyeither yet.

SPEAKER_03 (08:29):
You don't know everything, you don't know
everybody, you don't know what'sgoing on.

SPEAKER_02 (08:32):
Oh, you don't know about sales and use tax reports
that you gotta do every quarterthat piss you off and somebody's
gotta do, but anyway, and so I'mjust running around excited to
promote the product, but overtime I found that as business
becomes more complex, like youstart having to work on the
stuff that you've sold.
Sure.
And you stop showing up.
And so my point is You can'tstop showing up.

(08:55):
Like it has to stay at thehighest priority.
And I do that, like I actuallydo it almost to a fault.
Like this morning, I'm over atthe coffee shop.
I've been at the coffee shopsince freaking 7:30 this
morning.

SPEAKER_03 (09:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (09:06):
And I probably have ran into 15 people.
Oh, that coffee shops on it.
And I've had three meetings.

SPEAKER_03 (09:11):
I don't go in there when I don't see somebody I
know.

SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
Oh, 100%.
I'm always meeting there.
I'm meeting with somebody that'sthat's that's that's looking for
a job now.
Has nothing to do with what I'mdoing, right?
But he's a good person in thecommunity.
I've known him for a long time.
Trying to help him out?
Help him out.
He's helped me out.
I mean, like that's all good.
Yeah.
You know, but I do that all thetime.

SPEAKER_03 (09:32):
I I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (09:33):
And I can't I can't go, this isn't worth it.

SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
Yeah.
I can never do that.
Because you never know when it'sgonna come back to you.
You know, it always does.
It does.
Well, it we're all connected.
I mean, people can say whateverthey want.
You can call it karma, you cancall it God, you can call it
whatever you want.
Yeah.
Okay.
But the fact is that we are allconnected in ways we don't
understand.
100%.
And you put the good out thereand it comes back to you.

(10:00):
You know, so what else thoughhave you found?
So you you get out, you got toget yourself exposed, you gotta
show up.
What else do you is has beenpart of your um success in
selling, you think?

SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
Uh I'm I've been told I'm extremely persistent.
Yeah.
And I don't know that that mightbe a natural thing, you know,
for for me.
Like I just I can't it's more oflike I believe that this is good
for them, and and I'm just gonnakeep knocking until something
happens, right?

SPEAKER_03 (10:28):
Well, it's the same way you treat your businesses.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like you you encounterobstacles, things that would
shut other people.
Yeah, yeah.
But you just keep going.
And then you you you youovercome every time, right?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:40):
When I follow back up later and they need me and
everything's okay now.
Right.
Right.
And always work.

SPEAKER_03 (10:46):
Boy, I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 (10:47):
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
And uh so I think thatpersistence is is a key.
Like sure.
There's a lot of stats to it,you know, even like for
professional salespeople, youknow, um, that are even popular
influencers.
You know, it's like it takesseven follow-up follow-up
contacts.
Oh, yeah, we've all heard thatone.
Right.
But I mean, but it's so true.
Seven contacts before you'regonna make the sale or yeah, and

(11:08):
you gotta have seven deals inthe pipeline to close one.
I mean, it's like there's thereare numbers out there, there are
odds that bear out over time,right?
Yeah, and it's who's the personthat's gonna play the
quantitative game.
Yes.
And and so you can't that's thatand you have to have persistence
to get through those things, youknow, because I I'll I'll be the
first to admit, like when Iworked for a company, I remember

(11:30):
I was selling title insurance,you know, of all things, and I
baked all these Otis Spunkmeyercookies, which by the way, when
you bake your own OtisSpunkmeyer cookies, you can get
into the Pentagon with thesethings because everybody loves
them so much.
I didn't even know you soldtitle insurance.
Oh, yeah.
There's always something aboutyou.
That's right.
I did it for about a year and ahalf or so, and but I had my own

(11:53):
Otis Spunkmeyer cookie oven inthe office.
This is I'm sorry, it's beeneverywhere.
Most genius sales strategies ofall time.
Uh-huh.
Get you an Otis Spunkmeyercookie oven.

SPEAKER_03 (12:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:04):
You get frozen cookies, you make them cookies,
and you make cookies there atthe office.
Uh-huh.
And you put them in bags, liketwo double, two chocolate chips.
And you just you fold the littlepackage and you staple your
business card on it.
And then you got like 20 cookiedeliveries.
Who doesn't like that?
Dude, I'm telling you, it'swonderful.
And I would drive aroundNorthwest Arkansas.

(12:26):
I love it.
But knocking on banks andbrokers and stuff like that.
And I'd walk in and I'd havelike 10 cookie bags.
And Eric loved me so much.
Now I'd eat the hell out ofthem.
Yeah.
So I got fat.
A little oh yeah, you got fat.
Yeah, I did.
But I mean, I was I was eatingtoo many cookies.
But you could get in the doorwith those cookies, man.

(12:47):
Everybody loves cookies.

SPEAKER_03 (12:48):
That that's funny.
You know, years ago, I Iremember I was uh an HR director
for this company in Texas, and Iwas constantly getting called on
by Kelly girls.
That's what it used to becalled.
Okay.
Then it went to Kelly Temp's.
Okay.
So they they got rid of thequote girls.
That was obviously too sexist.
Sure.
But so I'd have these two womenwould would they'd come by my

(13:11):
office every single month, andthey always brought me stuff.
Well, they'd bring you.
They'd bring me the mouse pad,they'd bring me the coffee cup.
They're always Kelly Green,okay?
They'd bring me the floppy diskdrive, you know.
Swag.
Yeah, the the keychain, the thewhatever, all right?
The the stress release, yourcall, your desktop calendar is

(13:35):
full, and it's like all thesebillboards for Kelly Tempts, all
right?
And then lo and behold, one daythat the the receptionist is not
gonna be there, and the backupperson is not gonna be there.
What do I do?
Call who do I call Kelly Times?
That works, man.

(13:55):
It took them like, I don't know,six, seven, eight, nine months.
Yeah.
I was just boom, boom, everymonth.
I mean, that's and then theywent.
And then after that, every timeI needed a temp, that guess who
I called?
Kelly Times.
It works, it does work.
It's it's amazing how manypeople don't understand that,
but they give up, they go afterthat.

(14:17):
Maybe they bring them thecookies once and they don't get
a call in like no bastard overthere.
I gave him cookies and the guydidn't even thank me.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (14:25):
You know, right.
I'm not bringing you cookiesanymore.
You can't have that attitude.
That's why you got to have amotive of just like I mean, I
think like number one, I wouldsay people don't do that as much
because they want an easierpath.
They want a one-to-many.
Yeah.
How do I?
It's like like they're likethey're going to the casino.
What are my odds if I can sendan email to a thousand people

(14:48):
and two of them respond?
That was easy for me.
And now I just go go afterthose, versus putting a box full
of cookies and driving down theroad.
No kidding.
And and walking.
Pressing the flesh, huh?
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
And I mean, I my point earlierwas like, I admit, like, I'd I
there'd be times I made allthose daggum cookies.
Yeah.
And I remember this happening acouple of times.

(15:10):
And nothing happened.
Well, I'd make them and havethem in my back seat, right?
And I pull up to the bank and Igo, they don't want any cookies
today.
Oh, yeah.
Talking yourself out.
And I just pull out, I'm like,it's noon.
Everybody's at lunch.
Oh, me or dude.
I know I did it a few times.
Sure.
But they we've all done that.
Yeah.
It's another thing.

(15:30):
I don't think anybody talksabout that much.
Yeah.
But like that, that lack, thattotal depletement, depletement
of confidence or like you'reannoying and uncomfortableness,
you know, so much easier.
Just, oh, I'm just going to goahead and go to lunch myself.
But I've wasted thatopportunity.
Sure, you did.
And you got to figure out how topierce through that puppy and to
show up with the goddamncookies.

SPEAKER_03 (15:51):
Yeah.
What what do you think about thestrategy of telling people
something that you can't do orthat you don't do as well as a
way to build trust?
Like, you know, you worked as aserver at a restaurant.
Yeah.
And you know that you've, I knowyou've been to restaurants
before where you're like, well,what do you think?
Should I get the linguini withthe clam sauce, or should I get

(16:15):
the chicken uh cachetore?
And when they say to you, youknow what, we're known for the
linguini with the clam sauce,but the chicken cachetore, we
don't get we don't sell much ofthat.
Okay.
Yeah.
As a tactic to build trust.
Yeah.
What do you think about that asa sales approach?

(16:36):
People love that, man.
I mean, sometimes you got togive people the news.
Like, you know, I was I do a lotof business, done a lot of
business with the Lewises overthere, Lewis Automotive Group.
I mean, it's really, if I need acar, the first place I'm gonna
go is to see them.
Yeah.
Okay, because I know them.
I also do a certain amount ofbusiness with Superior.

(16:56):
I mean, it depends on the brand.
Yeah.
All right.
Yeah.
Because I know the people whoown Superior also.
And but you know, I just I Ithink back, and I've had great
good experiences with both ofthem, but I I think back on
times and I've said to Matt,like, what do you think about
this vehicle or this kind of aof a deal?
And he's like, No, you don'twant that.

(17:18):
Okay.
That's not like thank you.
He never BS's me.
Yeah.
So that's where I mean, it justimmediately builds trust when
you can give people like itwould be to his best interest to
sell that.
Sure.
Or the same thing I get out ofmy real estate broker, Dale
Carleton.

(17:38):
I've done, you know, 150, 200transactions with whatever.
I mean, there's been times whenhe's like, no, you don't decide
on you.
You could have made a you know,a uh six-figure commission on
that.
And you're like, no, you don'twant that.
You know, well, I respect thatso much.

SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
I think that it's a lot of this is like again, going
back to the entrepreneur, you'restarting up a business, and you
know that you you are yourgreatest salesperson, and you
need to be focused on that.
Right?
You might be a product engineer,but you've got to be thinking,
how do I go market and how do Isell this thing?
Yeah.
Then you got to show up, you gotto be persistent, like things we
talked about.
But I think that there's athere's a core piece here to

(18:21):
what you're talking about, thatyour ambition is not about
money.
Right.
Your ambition is to contributevalue to the market and and to
build the trust andrelationships with people.
Yes.
And the money is a byproduct.

SPEAKER_03 (18:38):
It is a things, that's it.
You show up, and and and youbuild that trust, you solve the
problem, then the money comes.

SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
100%.
We got a good case in point isright now at podcast videos, we
got a great opportunity.
Can't go into much.
You know, decent amount of work,right?
Good revenue.
Yep.
But the team's already beenlike, you know, looking at the
costs, and and they're lookingat a mentality, but as a
mentality of like, okay, goodamount of revenue.
Now, how do we make good marginon this so that it's a good

(19:10):
business, a good financial?
Yeah.
And I'm over here going, hellno.
I want to spend every pennythat's coming in that door back
onto that client.
Exactly.
A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 (19:21):
Because the potential is great.
Yes.
Yeah, don't let the nickel getso big it hides the dimes behind
it.

SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
Like as a matter of fact, I might lose money on this
because I'm going to here's whatI'm gonna do.
Yeah.
I am gonna blow the minds ofthat client.
Yeah.
And I'm gonna perfect theproduct that we built.

SPEAKER_03 (19:42):
Exactly.
There's a residual value ofdoing it because it creates a
whole new line.

SPEAKER_02 (19:47):
Yes, I they they buy more.
Now I go to the market, sellmore, and now I have a great
case study and a greatreference.
The money's gonna come.

SPEAKER_03 (19:57):
Why do we see that though?
And our people don't always seethat.
I've always hated to give up anyrevenue.
Okay, it's always been myattitude.
I don't want to give up anyrevenue.
I want to figure out how to doit, and I want to fit, and as
you said, it's a model.
This is a model for how we cango forward.

SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Yes.
And those and people thathaven't been in business a long
time don't understand.
Like, I have been, and we havebeen investing in building a
business to get to this littlesacred opportunity point.
Sure.
There is so much equity in thecompany and time and human
capital to get this littleopportunity, and you're going to

(20:38):
potentially turn that awaybecause it's not proper.
Because you're pitching, right?
Have we all lost our God-sayingminds?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (20:47):
Because opportunities do not come very
often.
Well, the other thing, I've I Iknow we've said this before, and
I'm sorry to be repetitive, butpeople don't understand the idea
of spreading your overhead costout over a larger base.
They don't realize.
So let's just say you did thatand you spent every dime you
made on it to do it.
All right.

(21:08):
It's still covered overhead.
Yeah.
That then means that everythingelse you do is more profitable
because you're paying theexpense of some of those people
and facilities and all ischarged to this thing over here
that quote doesn't make money,right?

SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Well, let's leave a really good example.
Big talk about small businessdoes not make us money.
The company of podcast videosmoney.
Don't make you and I moneyeither.
No, it makes no money.
It costs people money.
But there was the reason we, youknow, I wanted to, you know, to

(21:46):
to invest in this from podcastvideos, because it helps our
team work.
Right.
We learn things through it,right?
It you're doing business withyour own business.
Yes.
I was the first client ofbusiness.
Isn't I mean see that's soimportant.
So I can see and watch how theexperiences.
Right.
And then I the team can havesome portfolio.

(22:06):
They have and it's safer groundto screw up.
Because I mean, they don't likeit's not good to get in trouble
by the owner and and hit and theand the host of a show.
Right.
With the acumen and and andsuperiority that you have over
other people.
But like no one wants to be introuble from what the hell is
that?
That was just me talking smack.

(22:28):
But but it does apply the a realpressure in a in a less risky
environment.
It's a laboratory.
It's using your own business asa laboratory.
It is.
But my my biggest thing is Iwould not want to cancel this
show now.
Like let's say we learned all wecould from it, right?
Yeah.
Because there's some valuethat's coming out of this.
Like we're able to, with thesocial videos, shorts that we're

(22:51):
sending out from Big Talk thatflow through and it's connected
to podcast videos.
So it's a marketing vehicle.

SPEAKER_03 (22:58):
Exactly.
Yeah, we get to talk up podcastvideos and how great it is.

SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
I mean, it's true though.
And it adds to our overallanalytics.

SPEAKER_03 (23:06):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
And then, you know, podcast videos can reshare that
with their networking.
So it demonstrates more of thequantitative.
And so, like, as to your pointthough, like, why would like a
normal person would go, oh,well, you're not making, okay,
well, let's strike that entireshow, kill it.
I'd be like, no, dude.

SPEAKER_03 (23:21):
That's the problem, in my opinion, with the quote,
these people who quote, we wantdata-driven decisions.
All they want is data-drivendecisions.
What data are you looking at?
Is my question.
All decisions are data driven.
I'd never say that.

(23:41):
Okay.
Yeah.
Because the data is not alwaysclear.
It's not all, I can't justquantitatively say, well, what
we make on doing this show,right?
Mm-hmm.
Because there's all theseresidual benefits.
Yeah.
It's not easy.
It's always been the problemwith marketing in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it's like that's whyeverybody loves online

(24:03):
marketing.
We can see how many hits we getand freaking how long they spend
on our site and how much shitthey buy.

SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
But at the kernel of nobody really knows why people
clicked and engaged.
Exactly.
But we know that one did it, butwhy?
Let's reproduce it.
Nothing more.
Yeah.
What there's some sort ofsomething else there.
We're not measuring, right?
There's a connection.
Data.
There's a relation.
Yes.
On that video or that contentthat went out that people

(24:30):
related to.
Yeah.
And therefore they liked it.
Yeah.
And they shared it.
Yeah.
They commented and engaged withit.
But if you try to if you, youknow, but that was accidental in
a lot of times.
Yeah.
Or it was just built uponsomething.
It's because you had an opinionor a perspective.
Or yeah, exactly.
You contributed to the entire tothe body of knowledge.
Yeah.
To the insight.

(24:51):
It's the same thing when you'redoing sales around your network.
You're, you know, in human tohuman people want that.
Sure.
Like, and it still happens atthe biggest companies.

SPEAKER_03 (25:00):
There's two things I want to bring up about selling.
Okay.
I think are important.
I think one is you do have tohave the right list and know who
you're calling on.
Yeah, sure.
And a lot of people don't everbother to do that out of the
box.
I got something big to say aboutthat, though.

SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
Okay, go.
Are you waiting on?

SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
Yeah, no.
Oh, wait, I need to say it.

SPEAKER_02 (25:22):
This is big talk.
So it is big talk.
My thing about that is yes, youshould, as an entrepreneur, have
a direction of your targetaudience.
Yeah, exactly.
Who your target customer is.
But you better be damn ready toflip on a DOM.
Things come in across thetransit.
Yes.
And your job is to say, thisseems like the most probable

(25:45):
audience in the people I want togo connect with.
When I start talking to people,though, I need to go in and
listen and say, okay, I wentafter the CMO, that company to
introduce my product and myservice.
Really wasn't the right personto call on.
The HR department had moreinterest.
Yeah.
So go to the HR department.

(26:05):
Oh, next thing you know, you thepoint of the sales is to
discover your right audience.
No, you're absolutely right.
And have some comfort.
It might take a year.
It might take five years.

SPEAKER_03 (26:15):
Yeah, no, no question about it.
Right.
But not everything is new, andyou're not always discovering.
I mean, some people are outthere selling stuff that there's
a very clear path of who thedecision maker is, right?
Yeah.
But yeah, you're you're right.
I mean, you can't be so fixedthat you know, that you can't be
fleet and move.

(26:37):
But I I just see a lot ofpeople, they never bother to
define who their ideal targetcustomer is and maybe their, you
know, their secondary targets.
And then they never try to builda list.
They go, you know, like what's areasonable geographic reach for
this business?
Right.
You know what I mean?
Everybody who could hire us orinfluence the decision to hire

(26:59):
us, is not even the ultimatedecision maker.
And so if you cast, you know,the the net and you get that
defined, then you can do thestuff.
The other thing I just wanted tobring up that I think is
important, and I know youunderstand this, you wouldn't
have been successful.
You call on people even whenyou're not trying to sell them

(27:20):
anything, uh even when they haveno need at all, because you just
show an interest in them as ahumanity of fellow human.

SPEAKER_02 (27:29):
Yes.
And that goes back to her pointearlier.
It's the money, the success, thethe business is a byproduct.
I'm just being genuinely acontributor.
Yeah.
I think the contributor word tome keeps still like that's when
I think about why do I do thethings I do, I'm trying to
contribute back.
I'm trying to add a little bitmore value to this planet, you

(27:52):
know, in the way because I trustmyself to contribute.
Like I need to, because if Idon't, there's a lot of people
that shouldn't be that will be.

SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
Right.
You know, I get it.
You've got insight you want toshare.
You've got knowledge that youwant to share with people.
And it's positive, you want tohelp people.
Yeah, well, I believe that.
You know, yeah.
And you also make people feelgood.
Yeah.
But that's also part of it.
It that's that in a way iscontributing.
Sure.
If you call somebody and youtalk to them and when they get
out the phone, they like it.

(28:21):
Love it.

SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
They they feel more inspired, more energized, helped
their day out, gave them somesort of break from all the
freaking bull crap that's goingon.
Yeah.
It's like, man, it's nice tobecause if you call me, say,
man, I'm just checking on you,but how you been?
I'm like good.
I'm like, I might be in themiddle of some shit.
I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
But then I get off the phone andI'm like, you know, Mark gives a

(28:42):
shit.

SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
I know.
I was thinking about that.
No, I wanted to call you theother day because I was driving,
I was coming back from theairport and I drove past your
house.
Yeah, when I'm there on thehill.
It looks fantastic.
And they show it to you.
And then the three casitas, theway they all lined up out there
and tied into it.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like employee to it.
It was like a vision as I as Iapproached it, you know, and I'm

(29:03):
heading toward it, just thewhole thing just came into view
there.
I thought, wow, that'sfantastic.
Good.
I'm glad you can't.
It's really taken form as it'sbeen framed.

SPEAKER_02 (29:11):
Yeah, man.
Uh, I'm gonna need to have youout there, and that's all of my
wife that did that.
Like she had a great totalvision for that.

SPEAKER_03 (29:17):
It's a great site plan and and and the forms I
think really look good outthere.
But see, if I had done that,yeah, you might have said,
that's nice, you know.
Mark, Mark noticed our housegoing up out there.
Yeah, engaging my life.
Yeah, it makes me feel goodabout all the millions of
dollars I'm spending.
Yeah, a little good, but rightnow.
Yeah, even though I'm like, God,but it's all out.

(29:43):
Everything just goes out.
That's the mode I'm in rightnow.
We bought another house, too.
I don't even know if I told you.
Yeah, yeah.
We close on it less than twoweeks.
This is after the house that youjust bought.
Yeah, that well, that was twoyears ago.
I mean, now we redid that houseand we're still working.
How long have you been living inthat new house, the house you're
in right now?
Two years.
No, it has not.
It is we moved in in in likeMarch.

(30:05):
Yeah, we did.
Of 2028.
Of 2024.
Yeah.
And we're still spending moneyon that.
And I said to my wife, I'm like,oh my God, honey, I go, you
realize all it's gonna bebetween now and the time we sell
our current house is justoutflow, outflow, outflow,
outflow, outflow.

(30:26):
Okay.
So I guess if I showed you mynew house we're buying, and you
said, Oh, that's really gonna begreat, you know?
You're really gonna like that.
You get excited and you're okayto run a check.
Yeah, then you'd be like, Can Ihit you up for a$500
contribution to the AmericanHeart Association?

SPEAKER_04 (30:43):
Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
Yeah, man, I'm appreciated.

SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
It's so true, man.
You have to be that contributor,that yeah, that relational
person, because it is relations,man.
Yeah, and and I'll be honestwith you, like speaking of that,
my experience in in business,when I look back about what has
been the most rewarding,gratifying, you know, after all
the crap that comes of runningyour business, what I love and

(31:10):
what I appreciate is knowing, isknowing the amount of people
that I've gotten to know.
Oh, yes.
The team.
It's looking back absolutely,it's looking back at White
Spider in the early days when wewere freaking grinding and
everything was seeing doom andgloom, and you know, but the
team's working really hard, andwe came together as a team and
fixed some things and gotthrough some challenges

(31:31):
together.
That is why everything is worthit, right?

SPEAKER_03 (31:34):
That's why we all love these sports movies where
people overcome these objects,or the coach comes into the
team, it's a complete disaster.
We all love those things.
They're all like the worstplayers, and suddenly they're
the, you know, by just a littlebit of perseverance, yeah, they
kill it, you know?
Yeah, or the people who just getturned down over and over and

(31:56):
over, the performers, and thensuddenly they're you know, they
break through.
It that's those are some of themost rewarding things, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
It's it's it's it's overcoming, it's yeah, it's
building, yeah.
It's creating and contributing,you know, and and and I think
that that's like with thatattitude.
So now when I look at it, like Iliterally in my brain, and I'm
just being you know, reflectinghere, because I don't
necessarily have to go out andmeet a lot of people right now.
I don't have to, there's a lotof work I should be doing.

(32:26):
I'm constantly battling my time.
Well, yeah, that stuff's comingto you.
Yeah, it's yeah, it's constantthis turmoil, but I still like I
still go meet specifically withpeople that don't have any
contribution back towards me ora sale.
You want to say that I'm not ina sales meeting, I go meet with
them because like that's itgives value to everything.

SPEAKER_03 (32:50):
Of course.
I I do the exact same thing.
Yeah, you do.
I'm not trying to sell anything,but I mean, if you look at my
coffee, lunch, breakfast callschedule with people You meet
with a lot of students.
Sure, I do.
I mean, the majority of themaren't gonna do me any good
necessarily, but uh that's notthe point.
You're so right.

(33:11):
So I think I guess if thethere's any moral to all this
story, aside from some of thethings that we've talked about
of getting out there, hittingthe numbers, being providing
value, being helpful, buildingtrust, all those things.
Um, I I think that the thesomehow this I'm not selfish and

(33:34):
short-term oriented has to bepart of the success formula for
salespeople.
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
It's I don't think it has necessarily almost
anything to do with it.
Now, what I would say it startscoming into play as you're
growing.
And this kind of makes me wantto go on to the other topic
about okay, what about hiring asalesperson?
Okay, what about it?
Because it comes at some point,like you, it's again the
quantitative game, right?
You need somebody that'spossible, you know, you need to

(34:03):
conquer, divide, and conquer, oror to scale and multiply.
You got to bring on moresalespeople.
Right.
And and I would say to an to ato an entrepreneur, that's the
most difficult role in the worldto find a great contributor with
you because you got so manythings against you.
Number one, salespeople ingeneral are really great at
interviews.

SPEAKER_03 (34:24):
That's what I was gonna say.
That was my first thought.
They are good at sellingthemselves into the job.

SPEAKER_02 (34:31):
So much always.
Always are.
I mean, they follow up, yeah,they put on their best, they
show up, they smile, you know,they buy your coffee for you.
You're so right about that.
They're doing all those things,man.
That's what they're the best at.
Hell yeah, and they should be.
Yeah, you know, yeah, but butit's it's was my exact thought.
You know, but the thing I'veexperienced a lot of times is

(34:54):
just because the great interviewdoesn't mean they're gonna be a
great person.
And so you go through a few ofthose, and you're like, what you
know, really trying to find thatperson that you can that you can
entrust is going to come intothe business and their number
one job, and and it and it's sofunny to me, salespeople don't
think about this, but they areliterally the ones carrying the

(35:14):
weight of the payroll.
Sure.
A good salesperson has a deeprespect, yes, they feel that
shit.
Yeah, man.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I mean, this is a seriousjob.
Yeah, it is the most serious jobin this company.
Yeah, and a lot of times, and Ithink in general, the society
and culturally, a lot of thesalespeople don't even see that.

(35:35):
Yeah.
Like they don't, they don't eventhink about it.
I'm like, and I and I'm and Ikind of beat it into them like,
hey, you know that everybodyhere is depending on it.
Yeah, exactly.
So you want them to feel theheat.
Oh, I do, because I don't wantthem to pull up with a box of
cookies and look at the dorm andsay, Oh, nobody wants to talk to
me.
That's a selfish thing.
Uh huh.
But you're like you you're andby the way, you need to be

(35:57):
making about 10 times whatyou're getting paid.
Yeah.
So if your base if your base isat 60,000, you're getting 10%
commission, that means you needto be bringing in what?
About what would that be?
Well, it depends on what themargins are for the business.
Well, sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, but but you need to bebringing in about$40,000 a month

(36:19):
a new business.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (36:20):
For you to make there's always a ratio there.
I used to do this with thearchitects and engineers.
I'm like, okay, we got a$150,000full-time BD person.
They got to bring in threemillion dollars worth of work.
Don't tell me they brought in amillion dollars worth of work.
That's that's not good enough.

SPEAKER_02 (36:38):
And if you're not careful as an entrepreneur,
you're just like happy to get amillion, but it's like, wait a
minute, these numbers are gonnacontinue to do it.
It's not gonna work.
Yeah, and then you get asalesperson that thinks they're
doing really good because theyclosed the deal.
Well, great for a job forclosing the deal, but hate to be
the one that tells you this.
You need your job.
Hey, that's your start of yourjob.
You need to be like 10 timeswhat you just did.

(37:00):
Yeah.
They have to be, and and I'd saythe other thing is is like why
the entrepreneur makes the bestsalesperson is because they have
they can see the vision, theycan see the problem, they see
the went in business, theyunderstand.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (37:13):
A good salesperson has to get along with that.
See, this is always a debate, Ithink, for a lot of people that
are hiring salespeople.
Do they need to reallyunderstand my industry?
Did they come out of myindustry?
Do they come out of the types ofclients that we are trying to go
sell to?
My experience is that that, eventhough they've got to have these

(37:37):
other characteristics, I don'tminimize that because I think
they're so much easier for themto identify with the customer
when they can say, I've beenover there and you're on the
table.
I, you know, I man, I wentthrough the same thing.
That that that's why I'm overhere now doing what I do is so I

(37:57):
can help people like you becauseI come from that world.
It's like, you know, it's thesame thing selling motorcycles.
You know, it's like I honestlydon't want to have anybody out
there selling our motorcycles atJanus if they're not a
motorcycle person.
Now we could go hire salespeopleall day long, but if they don't

(38:17):
really understand what makes ourbike unique, compared, they
can't just be even a Janiceperson.
Right.
They've got to have a broaderperspective.
No, what a Harley, Jens, Indy,all these different brands.
Why we've got the unique uhoffering, value proposition that
nobody else has that they wouldnot have if they weren't
familiar with that.

(38:38):
They could be a really friendlyperson, they can follow up, they
can answer the phone, they cando all that stuff, but they've
got to at least have that too, Ithink, to ultimately be
successful.

SPEAKER_02 (38:49):
You know, and I would say, like, okay, what
you're talking about is likethat's a really hard person to
find.
Oh, that's a super hard person.
Yeah, you know, they're alreadyin business for themselves.
What I think, yeah, right.
Yeah, most likely.
Those are my competitor.
Right.
Exactly.
But you know, when I look atthis, like what I've been doing
is in a small business.
So I'm talking about smallstartup business, yeah, which is

(39:11):
much different than a Walmart ora JB Hunt that can afford they
can get real professionals.
$500,000 professionals.

SPEAKER_03 (39:17):
It's still them from the Johnson and Johnson, Proctor
and Campbell.

SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
That's a different, we're not that's you shouldn't
be listening to the show.
No, that's big talk about bigbusiness.
That's another it'd be a littletalk about a big business, you
know, because we know thatlittle.
But what I've done is in thesmall business world, is I've
looked at sales more as a box oras a departmental thing.
And and I meet people and I'mlike, they would be good at

(39:44):
prospecting.
Yeah.
Oh, you're right.

SPEAKER_03 (39:46):
You just buy the process.
Yes, totally different deal.
Because what you're talkingabout is a closer.
They're the initiators.
That that doesn't take the sameskill set.
Yeah.
It takes the hitting thenumbers.
That's it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Get it on LinkedIn.
Get on LinkedIn and hit fourpeople up.
You know, and I tell them whatthe audience is, right?
And then the mechanics, yeah.
And and they're kind of liketraining to be in sales, you
know.
And yeah, you're right.
Because what I found is yeah,but I've I've I've lied to
myself as a business owner.
I'm an entrepreneur and I'm I'mI'm just doing playing so many

(40:21):
cards.
Man, I'm tired or whatever, andI need to focus over here or do
this.
I got these other problems.
I'm like, man, somebody, and inmy brain, like, this is the
easiest damn thing in the worldto sell.
Like, I can walk into a clientmeeting and I don't even show a
presentation.
I just talk to them and I'mlike, what's your problem?
Oh, well, here's my solution forthat, you know.
Yeah.
It's easy.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (40:40):
I can see the future, you know, and what this
thing's gonna do and why theydon't do it right now, and what
problem, you know, and all theother products that they could
use and what's wrong with them,right?
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (40:50):
Someone find me a good salesperson, and hey, I
need you to go do that while I'mover here doing this.
And and I find out real quickly,I'm like, wait a minute, why
aren't they closing?
Why aren't they reaching out tomore people?
It's because they have such ahuge learning curve that, and
then it it starts deterioratingon them and it starts becoming
like this thing that's not good.

(41:12):
But I've started to be able topiece it off to where I'm like,
man, this person is like got areally strong, charismatic
engagement, you know, likeJeremiah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:21):
Sure, exactly.
He's great at meeting people,he's a great press in the flesh,
he smiles, and everybody's like,who's that?
And yeah, who are you?

SPEAKER_02 (41:30):
What do y'all do?
Like, he is that guy that likeno, I get it.
Walking, I can just see him likeopen up the double doors at the
convention center, yeah, at abig trade show and everybody
watches.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (41:40):
No, I get it.
Pike has videos all over theplace.
Yeah, no, you're absolutelyright about that.
And so he would be great atopening those doors is what
you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 (41:48):
Yeah, exactly.
And so why why put more pressureon something in in that role?
You know, that there's more thatthey can do in this in this box,
you know, uh versus but theclosing side, how do I get more
engaged in that?
Like we're so it helps mebecause now my box got smaller
on the sale side.
If I can just show up toimportant meetings, yeah, you

(42:10):
vetted out the opportunities.
Exactly.
That's what you're saying.
And then even I come in and thenI have somebody else that takes
the reins and just recordseverything, produces the quote,
sure, follows up, does all that.
So you can actually asmultiplied your effectiveness.
You can put box one and three,and you're still in two.
But you got to scale to acertain point where you can have
that.
I mean, don't you?

(42:31):
I don't know, man.
Like, I think that the in somecases, but if you do it right,
like if as long as you'redriving revenue, you can help to
offload the parts of you as theentrepreneur.
But it it requires that kind ofthat kind of planning, that
vision of how those boxes work.

(42:52):
Because and then to prioritizethat, because what I've done
incorrectly and still do todayis I get box one and I get box
three, and I'm responsible forbox two, but then I kind of
disregard box two because I'mover here too busy and that's
about box two.
Right.
And I let box one and three tryto take care of two, yeah, and
then nothing's really closing.

(43:12):
Right, I got it.
But then I jump back in and two,and then we start closing shit.
Then I jump out because I getdistracted, and then it starts
crumbling down a little bitagain.
It's but if my my goofy asswould sit there and focus on box
two like I should be and quitgetting dis because back to the
opening discussion, this is themost important thing in the
business.

(43:33):
Barg on period.
No, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
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SPEAKER_02 (43:51):
That's my problem.
We got no business without it.
I know, and and and I needconsole, I need therapeutic help
to keep me focused.
On box two, because like that'smy challenge, right?
And is like like if you know,and I try to put on the freaking
calendar, I try to make mentalnotes of I try to force myself
if something's always coming upand intervening and and and

(44:14):
distracting from my box twowork.
Yes, I get it.
You know, and but but I havebeen doing a little better.
And what I do is I force myselfto kind of play more in box one,
insert setting meetings on myown of people I know, and it
forces me to be in box twobecause you go naturally from
box one to box two, right?

SPEAKER_03 (44:34):
They don't want to let you out of box two if you
met them in box one.
That's right.
Yeah, you have to go to your inbox two because you set the next
meeting.

SPEAKER_02 (44:42):
Right, right.
I get it.
And so I I I I could I could doa lot better job on on even like
this discussion.
Like, I don't even know thatI've even talked about this with
my sales team.
And this would probably begreatly helpful for them.
But those are the types ofthings I think that like driving
that clarity as an entrepreneurin the sales umbrella and how it
can work and how you can modifyit from a startup with being

(45:04):
scrappy.
Yeah.
You know, because the otherthing I'd say box one and three,
because they're not the industryexperts like you're talking
about.
Box one's the prospecting andbox three is the close, right?
Yeah, it's it's the contract.
It's the right.
And then they what's great aboutthat, box three can then start
at box one, two, and and do thefull cycle for that same client.

(45:27):
Yeah, right.
Because we don't need box oneand box two anymore, right?

SPEAKER_03 (45:30):
That's the that's they just keep coming back to
box three.

SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
Yeah, and then yeah, and now you can there's a lot
more of a pool of people to hirein the ones and the threes than
there is the two.
But when you put one, two,three, no, you're right about
that.
It becomes very expensive,right?

SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
Very risky.
No, and and low, like you riskybecause it's low probability
that people are good at both.
I get it.
Sell your ass during theinterview.

SPEAKER_02 (45:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm so excited you can take thisentire thing off my plate, have
a good one, take it over, andthen you turn around many days
later, nothing's closing, andthen you got another problem.

SPEAKER_03 (46:06):
I want to bring up another aspect about all this.
When we start talking abouthiring salespeople, well, two
things.
One is we had somebody that madeus a proposal recently in one of
the businesses I'm involved withthat said, we do we use
psychological testing for allour salespeople.
I'm automatically skeptical ofthat.
I'm sorry, I am very skepticalof that.

(46:26):
Send me a psychologist.
I was an HR person.
I have seen such wildlydivergent personalities.
Exactly.
In fact, my first wife, youknow, was a psychologist.
Oh, what licensed.
All right.
Okay.
Her um specialist thesis, it'scalled a specialist paper, was

(46:51):
on faking in personalitymeasures, meaning how people can
pick up on what the test uhadministrators are looking for
and give them that.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Anyway, it's real.
People do it all the time andthey can pick up on it.
I'm I'm very skeptical of that.

(47:11):
But I think the other thing,though, that is a big problem
with a lot of salespeople, whenyou really come down to it, they
don't believe.
They don't, you know, it'salways I can sell anything if I
believe in it or I believe it'sgood.
I think a lot of salespeople areout there selling stuff that
they don't really think is thatgood or it's worth what they're
charging.

(47:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
How can you overcome that?
Can you overcome that?
I don't know that you can.

SPEAKER_02 (47:39):
I don't know that they can.
And I think a lot, you know, ifthey and the the problem is is
how do you pick like this thesoonest you can maybe pick up on
something like that is about 30to 60 days into the job.
If you're lucky.
If you're lucky.
Yeah.
Because, and that's probably theearliest.
Yeah.
That's yeah.
Because like and the problemwith sales folks is is like you

(48:02):
you have to be very attentive tothem.
And I don't do the best job thatI should on that.
I mean, I I I think about it allthe time.
Like, I I need to get my craptogether.
I'm talking to you right now.
You gotta be selling them.
Dude, dude, you have to coachand you have to talk, and you
have to you have to build arelationship with them.
Yeah, they gotta really become avery tight relational person
with you.
So if you're an entrepreneur,yeah, you bring on a

(48:23):
salesperson, that's like thelike you you you basically have
brought on a child for yourbusiness that you care for that
person.
You are so right about that.
You know, right.
Well, and they're gonna, youknow, they're gonna go out and
party a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 (48:39):
Well, I find that with almost anybody I hire.
That's fair.
I mean, it's like especiallyearly on, they they because I
never had a job, I never took anew job I didn't hate or regret
when I took it for the first twoor three months.
Yeah.
You know, it's always like, ohmy God, what did I get myself
into?
So if you can help them getthrough that and you keep

(49:00):
selling them on the vision andthe mission and why we're doing
what we're doing, you can getthem past that to the point
where now they've got theirlittle internal engine going.

SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
You're saying that, and a lot of things just hit me
all at once.
When I when you hired me back atZwaghwai back then, now Zwai
group, I read a book.
I mean, like I took your job thejob very seriously, and I was
like, all right, I'm gonna getmy shit together because I've
been an entrepreneur.
I don't, you know, like now Ihave something real I gotta do.

(49:32):
Yeah, you got a real job, right?
Real job with lots expected ofyou.
Yeah, yeah.
And a lot of problems.
It's a big, yeah, big role.
That thing's defined.
It's all a mess.
Okay.
Like, okay, there you go.
And so I read that book, FirstHundred Days, which is one of
the better books I've read in mycareer.
But it's all about the firsthundred days of when I start my
new job, are the most importantfor the rest of my trajectory at

(49:56):
that company's career, right?
And in that in that role.
And so I when I walked into it,I was like, these first hundred
days, I am going to berelentless about how much effort
I'm learning, picking ups,talking to people, meeting
everybody in the company,understanding processes.
Like I just dove in with thatmentality of like, not that I
have, I didn't go into thementality, I'm this is a you

(50:18):
know, 10-year career and I'mgonna learn gradually and over
10 years.
Yeah.
No, first hundred freaking days.
Yeah.
Well, you're impatient.

SPEAKER_03 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah.
You are a natural businessowner.
Yeah, okay.
It's like this.
So you're approaching the job inthe same way.
Yeah, exactly.
No wonder you're successful.
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
But but you not everybody's likethat, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
That's fair.
But what you just said though islike I need to reverse this.
And I need to have quality.

SPEAKER_03 (50:45):
When I hire somebody, yes, you've got your
first hundred days worth ofwork.
That's correct.

SPEAKER_02 (50:52):
To sell them, to yes, to coach them, to ingrain
them, to to give them thatvision.
And I have never really donethat.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (51:02):
And that I learned a lot just now.
Well, I always learn from thesecalls.
You know, something we're doingat Janice right now, which I
think is really good.
And I I have to say I insistedon it.
So I'm I'm gonna take a littlebit of credit.
Every sale that we get of amotorcycle, yeah, we send out an
email to all employees thatsays, we just sold a bike to Joe

(51:24):
Blow.
He's this old, he lives here,he's been following us for three
years.
He met Bob at the blanketyblank.
Okay, he was thinking aboutbuying this, but he ended up
buying this.
And this is the way he set itup, and this is how much he
spent on it.
Love it.
And the whole point of it is toget everybody in the company to
understand these are the peoplewe are making happy.

(51:46):
These are the people who decidedto go ahead.
If they call, treat them likeyou know something about them,
right?
And it helps you understand whywe're doing what we're doing.
It connects you with yourcustomer, the person paying your
payroll.
Yeah, somebody maybe all they dois sit there and put parts in
boxes and send them off all day.

(52:07):
And they never talk to thecustomer.
Or they screw something onto abike all day, right?
They never talk to the customer.
But let's get them connected.
Let's get everybody sold.
Let's get everybody in line withwhat we're doing here and see
how we make people happy andlearn about how they made their
decision, even if they're notsalespeople.

SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
Everything we talked about today in that last
statement is everything's aboutconnecting with other people,
customers, internal team,entrepreneur with your team,
team with your entrepreneur.
It's just all one bigconnection, the human
connection.
Yes, it is.
And if you're focused on that,and if the more I focus, like it

(52:48):
actually mark, I mean, realquick, I know we got build, but
when I and we talked about howdo I how do I disengage or how
do I reduce my stress level?
If I'm in the middle of chaosand everything's hitting,
everything sucks.
Sure.
Which happens all this shit youdo I do?
Yes, forms to fill out like somuch.
Answering the same question thatit's a 10,000th freaking time,

(53:11):
you know, all this frustration.
When literally what I have foundthat gets me to a state of uh
you know, get out of that,getting positive again, is when
I become grateful and I thinkabout the human connections that
I make.

SPEAKER_03 (53:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:26):
When I walk into this building, and if I
literally stop outside thebuilding and I take a couple
breaths, I'm like, I'm gonnahave to go see Brooke Gallagher,
who I've worked with for 15years.
Sure.
Brooke Flowers, who's out therejust, you know, doing her best
to do X, Y, and Z.
Bob, who's in here, who's caringso much about the company, Ash,
all these people.
And now I walk in, it's a wholeman.

(53:49):
I'm like, I'm rejuvenated, Ifeel good, and the that
connection.
But these are the people I spenda lot of time with, and then I'm
building something with.
Like that, there's there's thecommunity that's the messy
building.

SPEAKER_03 (54:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:04):
And I'm not trying to be T sell hat hippie about
it.

SPEAKER_03 (54:07):
No, I know it's the truth.
No, you're right.
I mean, again, I I hate to keepselling you, but you've that's
what that's a big part aboutwhat makes you unique and
successful, is you get that.

SPEAKER_02 (54:17):
But you do that like you show me how to do that
connection thing.
Like you would walk in, no, man,I mean no, you've always cared
about people.
Like and when I took that firsthundred days, I noticed that
real quick because like you youput expectations on folks, but
you genuinely care about theirwell-being, you know, and I
learned a lot from being aroundyou about that because before

(54:39):
that I didn't care about humans.
Oh come on.
No, but I mean, but you did youdid show me a lot with that.

SPEAKER_03 (54:45):
Well, thanks.
I appreciate that.
But you you've been a master ofit, and it's a big part of your
success.
And I always say, whenever I gettogether with you, and I think
other people I've said thisabout you to other people, and
it's like, get together withEric, you always leave feeling
better than you did when you gotthere.
That you too, you know, that's agreat that helps you sell, okay?

(55:07):
I don't care what anybody says.
So let's just hang out, man.
Yeah, let's do mad old goodabout maybe we'll sell
something.
Maybe somebody will finallyfreaking come along.
We will be relentless in hawkingyour stuff.
All right.
Well, we gotta wrap it up,buddy.

(55:27):
We gotta get on with the rest ofthe day here.
It's been great talking withyou, as always.
Yes, sir.
This has been another fine,fantastic episode of that Big
Talk about small business.

SPEAKER_01 (55:49):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
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(56:10):
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