April 15, 2026 • 59 mins
A lot of business advice sounds clean on paper until you’ve lived through thin margins, messy partnerships, and the daily grind of managing people. Mark sits down with serial entrepreneur Dave Dreilingto talk about what actually holds up in the real world and what breaks fast once money, growth, or ego enters the room.
Dave shares how his early hustle mindset turned into major scale, including building a sportswear company that reached nearly $80M in revenue and later selling it to a large corporate buyer. From there, we get candid about franchising and why the franchise model can be a smart path to entrepreneurship if you understand incentives and pick the right people. Dave’s Quiznos experience highlights how a brand can look great while operators lose money, while his Freddy’s Steakburgers journey shows what improves outcomes: strong unit leadership, clear systems, and treating people well even in high-turnover industries.
Then we shift into Dave’s newest obsession: Booth Creek Wagyu. He explains vertical integration across the “four legs” of the cow, how Wagyu feeding and processing differ from commodity beef, and why retail meat markets, e-commerce, and restaurant sales can reinforce each other when the brand is controlled end-to-end. We also dig into consistency, including a grading approach that measures marbling percentage so customers and chefs can choose what they actually like.
If you care about entrepreneurship, small business growth, hiring for culture fit, and building a durable brand, this conversation is packed with practical frameworks and hard-earned perspective. Subscribe, share this with a founder friend, and leave a review telling us the biggest lesson you’ve learned the hard way.
Subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Big Talk About Small Business with Mark Zweig and Eric Howerton. Each week we focus on practical insights and real-world strategies to grow your business!
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
My first restaurant, I started off with a Quiznos
sub.
SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
Did you?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
And I ended up with six of them.
And then I learned how not tomake money in restaurants.
So that was our firstexperience.
SPEAKER_05 (00:14):
But welcome back, everybody, to another episode of
Big Talk About Small Business.
I'm here today with DaveDryling.
We're really lucky to have thisguy.
He's got quite an interestingbackground and has been very,
(00:38):
very successful in differentendeavors.
And I'm going to have Dave tella little bit uh about himself
here to get us uh kicked off.
But uh I was very impressed withyour background, Dave.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Well, thank you, Mark.
Now, as to whether you and thereader and the listeners are
very lucky, I let's wait tillthe end and they can be the
judge of that.
But you know, glad.
SPEAKER_05 (01:04):
You've probably been on a million of these podcasts
and interviews, I'm sure, overthe years with everything that
you've done.
But uh so tell us all a littlebit about you, though, and and
what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Yep.
Um, well, you know, growing up,um looking back on it, um, I
would now be described as ahardcore entrepreneur.
And um now I'm old, I was bornback in the 1900s, so so uh uh I
don't think that word was eveninvented then, or if it was,
(01:38):
nobody could spell it.
But you know, I my parents, Igrew up in a town of 2,000
people, my parents had a smallfamily department um clothing
store.
And so, you know, looking backon my childhood, I really wasn't
that happy because I just hadn'tfound myself, you know.
I wasn't one of the cool kids.
Um, I tried to be an athlete, Iwasn't very good at that.
(01:59):
Uh, but I love business.
And so um when I came toManhattan, Kansas uh to and then
um went to school at KansasState University.
I joined a uh fraternity and anduh had an opportunity of
starting my first business rightout of college.
And by then, I mean, like myfirst business was I was six or
seven, I started a worm farm.
(02:21):
Um, and so I've just alwaysalways done things, and uh I get
it.
SPEAKER_05 (02:26):
Yeah, I was the same way, dude.
I was out selling bicycles on mymom and dad's street corner for
you know the time I was eight ornine years old.
So I'm the same.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
I I did that when I was about 15.
We had DB Bike Company.
We'd go to garage sales and buyold beat-up bikes and then
refurbish them and sell them.
SPEAKER_05 (02:45):
So yeah, that's awesome.
So a lot of I think a lot ofentrepreneurs showed those
tendencies early on.
Now, you went to K-State.
Did you get your degree inbusiness or did it get it in
something else?
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
No, it it it was business.
Um, I would tell you, I wasn't agreat student.
Um, I love business, I love toparty, I love to chase girls.
Uh I just wasn't into studying.
So I think my GPA was a 2.9 orsomething.
I just wanted to get out.
And uh, but um the uh fraternityI was in, I was um social
(03:22):
chairman.
And so one day this guy stoppedby and he had a uh sweatshirt,
it said Fidel State AthleticDepartment.
And he said, Hey, would you passthis around your your chapter
meeting?
And here's a sign-up sheet, andI'll stop by next week and pick
up the order.
And I said, Great.
And uh there were like 30 guysthat ordered this sweatshirt,
and I was doing the math, and itwas a$900 sale, and he was only
(03:46):
there for five or 10 minutes.
So I I asked him the next timehe stopped by.
I said, uh I just had morequestions about his business
model.
And he was just driving aroundwhat was actually the big eight
at the time, and uh um I wasjust intrigued with it.
And so um I asked him, Well, isanyone doing this in any other
(04:06):
universities?
And he said, I don't know.
So we found a book in theUniversity of Illinois in
Champaign, Urbana, at that timehad the largest Greek system in
the world.
Yeah, and so we made a dealwhere he fronted me all those
sample sweatshirts, and oneweekend I drove out there and I
dropped them off, and it tookabout a month for the orders to
come in, and he was gonna pay mefive five dollars a sweatshirt,
(04:29):
and I sold about 200sweatshirts, and so I made a
thousand dollars, which was bigmoney for me at the time.
SPEAKER_04 (04:34):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
So he approached me of when I graduated.
Uh, it was his idea that at thattime in the Greek market, if you
wanted to uh get a sweatshirtlike with your letters on it,
you could go down to your localspirit shop or you could order
out from a handful of companies.
Balfour was one of them that youwould order from a sample and it
(04:56):
would take about four to sixweeks.
And his idea was that we wouldmake up this inventory ahead of
time for the nationalsororities, and then we would
travel around and we would visityour house on meeting night and
we'd bring in a look like a bodybag, only bigger, full of
sportsware just for yourindividual house.
(05:17):
So if the girls wanted to try iton, they could, they could buy
it right there on the spot.
And no one had ever doneanything like that.
And so um that was the start ofabout a 28-year endeavor.
Um we built the Greek the uhGreek market up to about$7
million in revenue, and then wewere having troubles getting
(05:37):
traction beyond that.
Um and then uh and then I lookedat the high school market, saw
some things that I liked there.
So we changed our model from umselling into fraternity and
sorority into high schools, andalong the way, I developed a
supply chain.
I'd love to tell you that Imasterminded this, and I'm just
(05:59):
not that smart.
Uh, it took about 10 years.
Um, but I ended up with afactory in China that I was the
only, their only customer, and Iwould bring this sportswear into
Manhattan blank.
Um, we would decorate it, andthen we uh we would sell it
directly to the coaches.
So I bypassed all these otherlayers, the distributors and all
(06:21):
that.
And right um, we built thatcompany up to we were pretty
close to 80 million in revenue.
Uh about nine 900 employees herein Manhattan, and um uh ended up
selling that to Haynes Brandsthat owns Champion in 2016.
So that was pretty much my dayjob for 25 years.
(06:42):
Um we'll start dabbling inrestaurants and uh just just
sold that last month.
We had uh um there's a franchisecalled Freddy's Steak Burgers
and Frozen Custard.
SPEAKER_05 (06:56):
Love them.
Love Freddy's.
I've got a friend that that'sgot uh, I don't know, he's got
15 or 18 steak and shakes now.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_05 (07:06):
And you know, honestly, I think Freddy's has a
better offering.
It's you know, it's it issimilar in some ways as far as
the offering goes, but theFreddy's burgers are a little
bigger and a little crisper, andthe fries, you get more fries
and they're a little tastier.
I love Freddy's.
It's so how you built up a groupof Freddy's.
(07:29):
Uh I understand.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
We uh and I just sold that last month.
Um we had uh 43 of them.
Wow.
So uh uh I didn't spend muchtime on it.
Um, I had a really good CEO.
We would meet weekly, uh,supposed to be for an hour and
about five or ten minutes intoit, I would say, Cam, that's
great.
But can we just talk about cows?
(07:52):
Uh because my latest passion hasbeen this vertical Wagyu beef
company.
SPEAKER_05 (07:58):
So yes, yeah, I want to get into that in a minute,
but just to go back to thefranchise ownership.
Yeah, how did you like that?
I mean, you created your firstbusiness from you know, uh uh
the way you wanted it,obviously.
Yeah, and then you got got intothis franchise business where
your prices are set and you knowthey they micromanage your
(08:22):
location selection and facilitydesign and everything else.
Yeah, how do you like that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Um, I'm pretty bullish on the franchise model.
Um, in fact, in in the falls atK-State, I teach a class on
entrepreneurship and I do awhole class just just on
franchising.
SPEAKER_05 (08:40):
And um I need to have you come visit my classes.
Oh, sure.
I teach entrepreneurship here atthe Walton College.
Oh, yeah, yep.
And franchising is somethingthat is not really covered by
any of our classes, and it is adoorway to entrepreneurship that
people I think aren't fullyaware of.
(09:02):
It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Well, I'd be happy.
Um, I don't know if I want tomake it down, but you know, we
could do it, do an online thing.
But sure.
What I share in my lecture isthat um if you're willing to
work hard and you're good withpeople, franchising is a great
model.
And the success rate withfranchising is very, very high.
So I'm pretty pretty big on it.
(09:25):
Now, having said that, um,because my first restaurant, I
started off with a Quiznos sub.
SPEAKER_04 (09:31):
Did you?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
And I ended up with six of them, and then I learned
how not to make money inrestaurants.
So that was our firstexperience.
But what I shared in theclassroom is that every
franchiseur will tell therespective franchisee their
number one goal for you is tomake money.
They all say that.
SPEAKER_05 (09:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
And in reality, there's a spectrum between the
ones that really mean it, andfor the most part, Freddie's
meant it, all the way over tolike the exact opposite.
And you know, a good examplewith Quisnos was at one point
they called us, and at thispoint, there were 5,000
restaurants, 5,000 Quisnos.
SPEAKER_04 (10:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:15):
And they said, Hey, we want to fly out.
They flew out on their corporatejet and give you this award for
uh national multi-unit operatorof the year.
So it's a pretty big deal.
Sure.
And so we met, and the the VP ofsomething, and all of his
cronies was there, and we met atmy sportswear company, and I was
(10:36):
giving them a tour, and abouthalfway through, I couldn't stay
anymore.
I put pulled the guy aside and Isaid, You you have access to our
financials, and he said, Yeah.
And I said, You know, you heldus up as the very best, and we
lost money last year.
I said, How are the othersdoing?
(10:57):
And he pulled me a littlefurther and he said, They're
losing their ass.
So, so um um, you know, it goesback to people and and the rules
that I have in deal making, andI've done so many partnerships
and deals my whole life.
Is rule number one is who's thedeal with?
And then my rule number two issee rule number one.
(11:23):
And I've done most of my dealshave turned out pretty good.
Uh, I think the thing I'm mostproud of is every deal I've ever
done.
I can pick up my phone right nowand I know they would take take
take my call.
Sure.
Um, you know, partnerships arehard.
My my crude joke in theclassroom is partnerships are
even tougher than marriagebecause there's no makeup sex.
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
No, it's speaking for myself, so um well said
though.
SPEAKER_05 (11:51):
It's true, it's like being married in so many ways.
Yeah, yep.
So, so, but uh you say good withpeople, and uh how do you uh
apply that to the franchiseworld?
What is what are theimplications of that?
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Well, depending on the franchise, you're probably
gonna be managing people.
SPEAKER_04 (12:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
And you know, I've I've done startups and and
acquired businesses in probably10 or 12 different industries,
and every every industry willhave their own two or three
unique things to that industry.
But the common thread in almostall of them is you've got to be
you've got to be good withpeople.
You you you know, you've got to,and some of this can be learned
(12:35):
over time.
Uh, it helps if you have somenatural talent with it in the
beginning, but you've got to beable to lead lead people, you've
got to be able to communicatewell.
Um, so that's the common thread.
SPEAKER_05 (12:48):
Yeah, I don't know about you, but I'm 68 years old
now, and I think I've gotten alittle better at that over the
years.
When I was young, I was probablya lot less tolerant and maybe
not quite as uh diplomatic.
Absolutely.
If is that your experience?
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Yeah, I yeah, I I'm fairly direct.
You know, I I think I think agecan tend to, you know, kind of
knock some, you know, some roughedges off of everybody.
Um but um I think that would I'msorry, go ahead.
Well, I think um and there's apersonality profile system that
(13:28):
I use that I've used for 25years.
Okay.
Um and it'd be like um, youknow, Briggs Meyer, Myers Brig,
Disc, Colby, all of those.
Uh I'm not saying that's that'sany better.
It's better for me because Iunderstand it well.
And uh, you know, looking at mypersonality, you know, I'm I'm
naturally extroverted, um, I'mnaturally impatient.
(13:50):
Um, my conformity, I don't haveany conformity.
I mean, any rule I see to me isjust a you know a suggestion.
Uh so so some of those thingsjust naturally lean in towards
entrepreneurship, you know, alittle bit better, I think.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (14:06):
Now, when you did that the restaurant group that
you had, did you have any otherpartners in that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had gee whiz, three or fourdifferent partners.
SPEAKER_05 (14:16):
Okay.
And so um why did you do thatinitially, or was that something
that evolved over time, or howdid that come about?
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
Um, it was a combination of like one of my
partners, Neil, he was just agood friend.
And it was literally almostlike, hey, I'm gonna run down to
the C store and grab a Coke.
You know, you know, do you wantanything?
I'm like, hey, Neil, I'm gonnago open this restaurant.
He went in, sure.
You know, so you know, so hejumped in.
Um uh kind of unique, and thisgoes to my impatience.
(14:49):
I discovered Quiznos, it waseither Anchor Entrepreneur
magazine, they had the list oftop 100 franchises.
Quiznos was number three.
I'd never even heard of it.
You know, the little verb wastoasted subs.
Um, the following week, my wifeand I were out skiing in
Colorado, and and one day sheturned out ski and she was
shopping.
And and that that afternoon shecame back, she says, Hey, that
(15:11):
Quiznos thing you were talkingabout, they had one.
I ate there for lunch and Iloved it.
And so literally driving backfrom Colorado, I I I started the
process of buying thatfranchise.
I'd never even eaten one.
I mean, which is kind of crazy.
I I tell my students, do what Isay, not what I do.
(15:31):
Um, and then while we weregetting that built, that was for
a store in Manhattan.
Quisnos called me and said, Hey,Lawrence is open.
And we've got a guy that wantsit, but we really like what we
see with you.
Do you want it?
And I said, Well, let me visitwith Brian.
And so I I called the guy thatwanted it.
We ended up doing a 70, 70, 30deal where he owned 30 and I own
(15:56):
70%.
And um, so I I just do dealslike that all the time.
So that's how I end up, youknow, with those original
partners.
SPEAKER_05 (16:05):
So I was always afraid of businesses like that
because it seems like yourworkforce, you have to, you have
so so many limitations on whatyou can do for the people in
terms of pay because the marginsare so thin.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (16:22):
You know, that it just wasn't it was a lot easier
for me personally to deal withprofessionals that are highly
compensated, where I've got youknow a lot more flexibility and
all, and what you can do forpeople, and just the turnover
that's inherent in that kind ofa business seems really like a
really tough thing.
Is that something that wediscovered as well?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
It is a challenge.
You know, what we learned withFreddy's, and I think when I
sold it, we had 1,700 employees,and a third of them are 16 to
18-year-olds.
SPEAKER_05 (16:54):
So yeah, that's a challenge, man, as far as that
can be a challenge.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
Yep.
Um, what what we found, and thisgoes back to kind of my
philosophy, any business that Iget into, especially if I don't
know anything about, um, Iusually go find a person or a
few people that I think arereally smart, that our values
align, and then I I treat themhow I'd want to be treated.
And they end up doing all theheavy lifting, even in in my
(17:21):
company today.
People ask me what my job is,and I say, well, I just kind of
walk around and act like I knowwhat's going on.
So that's my job.
But you know, related toFreddy's, what we um discovered
is um local store leadership iseverything.
And yeah, and so our what theindustry would refer to as
(17:43):
general managers, for us, it wasrestaurant operating partners.
Um we had a very robustfinancial system where in three
years they could make a you knowa it's based on profits and a
little bit like the Chick-fil-Amodel.
But if you had a a great umperson on the ground that that
(18:06):
was a good leader that thataligned, you know, our our
turnover was oh, a thirdprobably of what the Freddie's
average was, which is even belowthe national average on you know
restaurants.
So I mean, you're still dealingwith drama and problems of 16 to
18 year olds, but for us, um,that was one of our strengths.
SPEAKER_05 (18:27):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'd seen McDonald's thathad as high as 300% annual
turnover, which is insane.
I mean, yeah, how can you run abusiness like that?
It just seems very difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Yeah, I think ours was 140%.
So it, you know, it's still alot, but sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (18:45):
Sure.
Well, you got 16 to 18 year oldswho are gonna have that.
It's yeah, yeah.
So tell us about your currentbusiness.
I'm fascinated with that.
Of course, I love Wagu, whodoesn't?
But uh tell us, tell us aboutthis.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Well, um initially, um, I had an uncle that was
raising seed stock wagu, and Ibought a half the beef from him,
and I had never even heard ofit, you know.
I was like, wow, what?
And I tried the beef and I lovedit.
I was like, I know one thing,this is what I'm gonna be eating
the rest of my life.
And yeah, that was like 2017 or18.
(19:22):
And then spring of 2020, hecalled and he was reducing his
herd.
And um, I already had about athousand-acre ranch just 10
minutes north of Manhattan thatI had bought for the deer
hunting.
Yeah, and I was so naive, Mark,that I thought, well, I'm just
gonna buy a few cows and then umand I can put them up on my
(19:44):
ranch, and then I'll just havegreat beef for friends and
family.
And so I bought 10 cows fromhim, and then um a month later
he was having an auction, and soI went there and I started
drinking the Kool-Aid and Ibought two bore two bowls and
four cows and 28 embryos, andthen I just the rest of that
summer just studied study theindustry.
(20:05):
And I felt like there was anopportunity to create a vertical
Wagyu beef company right here inthe Midwest.
And um, by vertical, I've I'veheard the industry described
really like four legs of a cow.
So you have the the actual ranchwhere the calves are produced,
that involves your genetics andall that.
(20:26):
You have the feedlot, andfeeding wagu is much different
than commercial cattle, sothat's a whole separate
business.
Yeah, you have processing, whichis uh converting them into
steaks, yeah.
That that's its whole otherbeast, and then you have sales
and distribution.
And because of my days with mysportsware company, I was always
(20:48):
leaning in towards vertical,cutting out those layers.
So uh it was August of 2020 whenI said we're gonna start a
vertical water beef company.
And um, you know, so that'sthat's what we've been doing
ever since.
SPEAKER_05 (21:05):
So tell us about how that evolved.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Um yeah, well, for six years now, if I'm awake,
that's what I've been thinkingabout.
Um what I've learned is thateach one of those elements, it's
a very exciting time to be inagricultural right now because
there's so much technologypouring into ag.
Um the industry itself, and Idon't mean to be demeaning, but
(21:32):
um the industry itself, there'sa lot of guys that are in it
that uh they don't adopt the newtechnology very well.
Your typical rancher is somewhatcynical, you know, they've seen
everything come and go.
Um they're also very selfreliant.
You know, it's an industry thatif you have a calf with the
(21:54):
sniffles, you don't call a vetbecause you can't afford it, you
figure it out, and so those sameattributes.
That that have made ranchers uhpeople that I really respect um
have kind of held them back.
And so um I I could literallyspeak for 30 minutes on each one
of those segments, things thatwe're doing that's different
(22:17):
than what we're what we'reseeing in the industry.
SPEAKER_05 (22:19):
Um so well, it's kind of like general
contracting.
I had a design, build,development contracting company,
and in that field, it's the samething.
The all the small contractors,they never adopt any new
technology.
Everything is seen as too risky.
Um you know, things can gowrong.
(22:41):
New means risk, therefore, avoidall new, and they're very, very
inefficient as a result.
And there's always anopportunity when somebody comes
in and does things differentlyin those kinds of very
fragmented industries that havelots and lots of players.
And clearly that's what you'vedone there.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (23:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So so now who do you sell yourbeef to?
Um is that so difficult todevelop a distribution uh outlet
for it?
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
No, well, you know, we're still working on it.
Um, our three channels now wouldbe we have our own retail meat
markets.
We have four of them.
Uh we have two in Kent City, ouroriginal meat market in
Manhattan, and one in Wichita.
And then we're getting ready toopen up one in Fort Worth, Texas
next week.
SPEAKER_05 (23:31):
So that's our what are those called?
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
Uh they're called Booth Creek Wagu.
unknown (23:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Meat market.
SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
And okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
And the industry hadn't really done that.
When when you go into our store,all it is is our own Wagyu
product.
And um, we sample heavily.
I mean, the minute you come in,we're taking a little chunk of
of a of a rib eye steak andwe're grilling it real quick,
and we're gonna let you sampleit.
And um, which is pretty unusual,but um, that idea came from I I
(24:07):
think I shared in August of 20,is when I wanted to start a beef
company.
And in March of 21, we wereselling at a farmer's market in
Manhattan, and I was realizingthat nobody knew anything about
Wagu at the time.
You know, we would say, if youever had Wagu, they're like,
Wow, what?
And then number two, if theyhadn't tried it, and so it was
(24:28):
fun to give someone a sample andtheir jaw would kind of drop,
and they would just get quiet,and you could tell their mind
was like, Hey, do you realizewhat you just ate?
I mean, it's just so special.
So that sampling is a big partof our retail markets.
Um, the other channels is we doe-com, and then our third one is
(24:52):
we sell wholesale into um makemainly restaurants and other
meat markets.
What I think what's interestingabout our model is a lot of
times when you have differentsale channels, you can have what
we call channel conflict, right?
If you're trying to sell retailand wholesale, um and they don't
want to yeah, I understand that.
SPEAKER_05 (25:13):
You it if if you're if you're selling retail, then
nobody wants to buy from youwholesale, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
Yeah, what we found is these three channels build
build on each other.
And I say, um, you know, likewhen we opened up our first meat
market in Kansas City, our e-comfrom that area went up.
And and you know, our restaurantbusiness and you know, your
steakhouses, they get hit withsales reps every day, you know,
from your US foods and yourCisco and all that.
(25:43):
And the guy that runs it's aGordon Ramsey restaurant in
Kansas City, he stopped in ourstore and he's looking around
and he's like, These guys knowwhat they're doing with WaGu.
So he he called us and said, Ireally want you on the the menu.
So where we're headed with this,and I'll use Fort Worth as an
(26:04):
example.
Once we have our retail storeopen, then e com is going to go
up, then we can start sellingdirectly into the restaurants,
and I don't have to go throughdistributors because every week
I'm shit I'm shipping you know aload of beef down to my store.
And so if you're a a asteakhouse and you want Booth
(26:25):
Creek on your menu, you have tobuy directly from us.
I I'm not gonna trust any kindof a middleman for it.
So that's that's kind of wherewe're headed.
SPEAKER_05 (26:35):
You know, I love the idea of a business where if
somebody wants it, I'm the onlyone place they can get it.
It's always a better position tobe in, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (26:46):
So it's interesting though that the way you started
this, you know, there in inManhattan and some of these
other cities here in the Midwestand all.
Um now Fort Worth may be anexception, but you, you know,
and and people were so surprisedat the at the flavor of the Wa
Gooo.
I guess if you were in New Yorkor Chicago or somewhere, it
(27:08):
wouldn't have seemed uh asunique to them because people
there have sampled it.
But in this case, the samplingmethod was probably the
brilliant idea to get peopleexposed to it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, the other thing is there'sso much confusion over Wagu in
in the US today.
Um, I mean, literally six yearsago when I started, half the
people hadn't even heard of it.
Uh, I'm sure if we did a big uhrigorous survey today, you know,
probably 80 or 90 percent ofpeople have heard about it, that
(27:45):
there's a lot of confusion.
And so what we did is wedeveloped our own system where
every animal that goes throughmy plant, we get them up, get
the hide off, chill the carcass,cut it in between the 12th and
13th rib, which is just likewhat USDA does.
And then we have this systemwhere we take this picture of
(28:06):
it, of that ribeye, it goes upinto the cloud, it goes over to
Japan, they look at it and gradeit out for us.
And it comes back over and ittells us the specific percentage
of marbling.
SPEAKER_04 (28:18):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (28:19):
And that's the key.
The problem with USDA grading iseven USDA prime goes up to about
16 or 18 percent, what we'llcall DMP or digital marbling
percentage.
Um so our stuff starts there,but you you've probably heard of
Japanese A5.
That's way up in the 60 percent.
(28:41):
Wow, so you have all this range,and so we have four grades.
We have BC, which stands forBooth Creek 10, BC 20, 30, and
40.
And those numbers um signifymarbling percentage.
Yes, and we even print on thestake that, like, if I'm looking
(29:03):
at a at a ribeye, that theanimal that this was harvested
from, this is a 33% marbling.
SPEAKER_05 (29:09):
I see.
And um nobody else offers theseuh that kind of control, I
guess, over the quality and theselection of the product, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Yeah, and and it's really important because it's
funny to me when people come inand you see them arguing about
wagu, and they're like, well,it's got to be Japanese A5, or
it's you know, it's too fatty,or it's this, or whatever.
That's like arguing about beeror wine or bourbon.
It's based upon our own tastebuds.
SPEAKER_04 (29:38):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
No one's wrong.
But what this does is helppeople dial in, you know, right.
Where in time you could say,Yep, I love a Booth Creek uh 30
to 35% marbling strip.
That's my that's my stake.
Or maybe my wife doesn't like asmuch marbling, so she wants a
BC20 fillet.
SPEAKER_05 (29:57):
So uh Well, I'm sure the the real chefs that run
these uh you know uh high-endrestaurants must love that
because they're quality.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Well, it's all about consistency.
And yeah, well, one of mymentors, when I first got into
this, he said, Dave, figure outhow to make your product
consistent.
And he said, even if yourquality is poor, make it
consistent.
SPEAKER_05 (30:26):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (30:28):
Did you I'm curious now, has did owning the
franchise restaurants that youdid influence how you do your
business today in any way?
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
Yes, it did.
That's a really good question.
Um, what helped me was because Ihad all the infrastructure of a
pretty big company.
SPEAKER_04 (30:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (30:52):
So as I launched Booth Creek, I didn't have to
have my own IT, I didn't need myown finance, I didn't need
accounting, I didn't need HR.
I already had all that built.
And so that's what I calledscaffolding.
SPEAKER_04 (31:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
And so I could just focus in on how do we create the
best genetics and the bestfeeding and the best, you know.
I didn't have to put alltogether all those other pieces.
Now, I just sold that companythis last month, and we have 12
months now to wean ourselves offof that.
So currently we're going in andnow hiring our own HR and IT and
(31:28):
all that.
But um, I think that helped helpme a lot.
SPEAKER_05 (31:32):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I don't know if you saw,I'm a motorcycle guy and I'm an
owner in a motorcyclemanufacturing business.
Um, Indian was just spun offfrom Polaris to a private equity
firm.
And that's one of the challengesthey have is you know, carving
that thing out when all thosesupport services basically have
(31:53):
been provided by Polaris iscreating a lot of challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (31:58):
Yep.
And so they have to recreatesome of that.
I mean, it has its advantagestoo now, as they can.
Exactly.
So have services that are veryspecific for what they're trying
to do and maybe not replicateall the excess overhead or
problems associated with anestablished business like that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (32:21):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (32:22):
How do you how do you deal with so you've grown
these businesses and been indifferent industries clearly?
How do you deal with, you know,as you build these businesses,
um, you've got to bring expertsin, people who are discipline
experts or people who, you know,have some particular skill set
(32:46):
in IT or marketing, or thingsmaybe that you don't consider
yourself the expert in.
How do you deal with that interms of not um I it's hard for
me to articulate, but a lot oftimes these people come out of
larger organizations that arevery bureaucratic.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (33:07):
And and the tendency may be to come into your company
and say, well, at ABC, we did itlike this.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
And then they want to try to make you like ABC.
And how do you how do youcounter that or how do you deal
with that?
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
Um, I found for the most part it doesn't work very
well.
Um with my sportswear company,we we had about a two or three
year period where I felt likewe'd kind of outgrown our team.
And so I started bringing insome of the big guns.
Yeah, it didn't work.
Um, it was not a good culturefit, it didn't work.
(33:48):
And so um there's a study thatHarvard did, uh kind of going
off on a on a little tangenthere, but I think it's really
important because it applies toabout any and all business, and
um that showed that when we hirepeople, typically the number one
thing that people are hired onis experience, and that's what
you're talking about.
SPEAKER_04 (34:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
And if we follow a typical search, that's how it
works.
You know, you gather up theirresume in in the in the
interview, you're going throughtheir history, you're talking
about experience.
That's the number one thing thatwe hire for.
That same study showed that ifon down the line it didn't work
out for any reason, it washardly ever experience.
(34:32):
It was fit, it was culture, itwas values, it was do they have
grit?
Do they, you know, all of thatstuff?
Sure.
So if we think about that, whyis that so messed up?
And my theory is this it's mucheasier to discern someone based
upon their experience.
You can walk through theirresumes, you can talk about
(34:53):
gaps, you can even behavioral,you know, based interviews, you
can say, hey, who is your bestboss?
That part's easy.
It's hard to dig in to the otherside of it.
So with that in mind, um, Idon't hire on experience, man.
I I go for the other stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (35:13):
Um interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
And and and then this is the other thing that I
teach in in the classroom that Ithink that's really important is
you know, the old adage is slowto hire and quick to fire.
Yeah, we tend to be the exactopposite.
You know, I'm in pain, I justneed somebody.
And so, you know, we hiresomeone quick.
(35:35):
And then uh I I enjoy kind ofsharing this experience in the
classroom.
Um, if we made a bad hire, thebest thing for us is that we
made a terrible hire that isobvious in a short amount of
time.
SPEAKER_05 (35:47):
We move quickly, yeah, exactly.
Instead of waiting two years tofigure that out, right?
SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
It usually doesn't work out that way.
It usually starts with a littleping in your gut, 60 to 90 days
in, you're like, Eee, I'm notquite seeing the behavior that I
expected.
And then we always we alwayslook look inward and we always
say, Well, you know what?
I didn't spend enough timetraining them, I didn't spend
enough time communicating withthem.
You know, we put it on, youknow, we put it on me.
(36:15):
And the the reason, thepsychology behind it is because
we don't want to face the factthat I may have just made a bad
hire.
And if if I have to have thatconversation and let that person
go, number one, if aconversation like that doesn't
bother you, then we got biggerproblems.
(36:37):
You know, yeah, you're talkingabout someone's breadbasket,
they probably have a family, sothat's a pain, painful
conversation.
Yes.
Number two, then you're going tobe faced with going out and
trying to make a a decision onsomething you just failed at.
Um, and and uh and number three,sometimes by then you're really
(37:01):
in pain, and and you're facedwith this of well, this isn't
person, isn't quite what Ithought, but my goodness, if
they're gone, then I'm even inmore pain.
SPEAKER_05 (37:10):
That's the thing.
It's like I have to do their jobon top of all the other jobs I'm
doing, right?
And you don't want to go thereif you can avoid it.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
That's right.
So here's the big miss, though.
And um Jim Collins, you know,who I'm a big fan of, uh, this
was in his book, Good to Great,in chapter two.
He's the one that coined theterm of getting the right people
on the bus and the wrong off andall that.
And you know, what what he'slaid out is it's easy for us to
(37:40):
visualize the pain and sufferingof let's say having to let
someone go, and then uh what'sit going to look like in the
organization?
That's easy, easy to visualize.
What is much more difficult tovisualize is if we're trying to
populate our company with the Aand B players and get A and B
results, and we've got a C or aD, then what's the collective
(38:05):
pain for the rest of the companythat's trying trying to get
results, and this person or thisdepartment is holding them back?
And collectively, that's usuallya lot greater.
And if we if we let it go longenough, then eventually our A
players are gonna leave anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (38:22):
So yeah, the A as I always said, HR problems, if
ignored, will go away.
The people will go away.
That's the problem.
Yeah, but uh yeah, I've beencritical.
I mean, uh there's a lot of goodstuff in good to great, but I've
been critical of it only becausesometimes I think, you know,
particularly things with like umlevel five leadership as an
(38:46):
example, doesn't necessarilyapply to smaller entrepreneurial
organizations.
True, you know, yeah.
We can't all just beinstitutional leaders that
nobody even knows that we'rethere and we're working behind
the scenes or whatever.
Exactly.
In smaller companies, we needlevel four leaders still.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (39:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (39:08):
But if you have you found in any of the companies
now, uh you know, so this uhrestaurant group that you sold,
uh, you know, I assume thatyou're just completely out of
that now, or do you are youstill involved with it for a
period of time?
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
Nope, I'm out.
SPEAKER_05 (39:24):
You're out, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (39:25):
Have you found in in any of the businesses uh that
you've been involved with whereyou stick around that you know
they start doing things thatdrive you absolutely insane?
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
And oh, absolutely.
Yeah, how do you deal with that?
So when I sold GTM Sportswear toHaynes Brands, uh-huh, um, I
wasn't contractually obligated,but I stuck around for 18
months.
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
And on day 38 post-sale, I called my boss, uh,
and he was a great guy, but Isaid, John, this is not working
for me.
Um, it's just so much different.
And uh at the time I was on forthe College of Business at
K-State, I was on an advisorycouncil, and Randy Sims was a
(40:14):
good buddy of mine that he waschief legal counsel for Cerner,
which is a big, big player inthe um, I think it's medical
software space.
And for years they had been onan acquisition spree, and I was
telling Randy about my sale, andhe said, Well, what are your
plans?
I said, Well, you know, I'mgonna stick around, and and I
stuck around for two reasons.
(40:35):
One is we were the largestemployer in Manhattan, and you
know, I wanted to make sure thatwe got off to a good start.
SPEAKER_04 (40:43):
Sure, you care.
SPEAKER_02 (40:44):
Number two, two, I had never really been an
employee before, especially abig corporate employee.
I just wanted to see what it waslike, so I said, Well, Randy,
you know, I'm gonna stick aroundand I think we can do some
really big things for Haynes.
And he said, Well, Dave, I canshare with you my experience.
We've done about 50 deals, andon half of them, the founder was
(41:05):
gonna stick around.
And on and to date, there's onlytwo of them that are still
there.
SPEAKER_05 (41:10):
It's such a different world, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not saying it doesn't work,but the odds are really, really,
really low.
SPEAKER_05 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it I've experienced thatmyself.
I sold my my primary business toa private equity firm and just
watched them destroy it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (41:28):
They not understanding why we were
successful.
I mean, they threw outeverything that we did that was
good, like the shared bonusprogram and open book management
and you know, things that werejust fundamental to the
business.
And instead of, you know, we'regonna put pit each manager
against the other ones, and theyeach have their unique bonus
(41:52):
program, and now they don'tcooperate with each other, and
you know, you can just predictwhat happened after that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Yeah, that that's absolutely been been my
experience, you know.
GTM again, 10 years ago I soldit, and and I think at that
point we had about 700employees, and then last year
they sold off Champion to aprivate equity company.
And when I sold that, I retainedthe the uh real estate, and so
(42:19):
across the street from where Iam now, I've got a building
that's sure 180,000 square feet.
It's it's it's a big building.
And they ended up calling andsaying, We're we're you know
consolidating things, and youknow, they ended up leaving
early.
Um, I mean they basically ran itinto the ground.
And uh related to Haynes, what Ilearned was that our culture at
(42:43):
GTM Sportsware was we were asales company, we were about
selling sportsware.
So I ended up with a robustsupply chain, and I ended up
with like our embroiderydepartment.
I think we had 250 peopleoperating 24-7.
I did all that stuff because Ihad to to sell more sportsware.
Yeah, Keynes is a really goodsupply chain company, but they
(43:03):
didn't really value sales, andso um, just you know, a
completely different look.
Uh we haven't even brought itup, but uh six years ago I was
intrigued with the pethospitality business.
Okay, so doggy daycares, and soI got in that and we opened up
nine stores in less than twoyears, um, and really got after
(43:27):
it.
Uh, I wouldn't recommend goingas fast as we did.
It was rocky, but we managed tosomehow live through it.
Um, and then three years ago Isold that off to I'm a private
equity, and they're they'redoing a roll up and uh um you
know I visit with some most ofthe people that I had are gone
because you know the culturechanged, you know.
(43:48):
It's it you know, privateequity.
And I hate to label an entireindustry, but yeah, we know how
most of them operate.
SPEAKER_05 (43:57):
Yes, I do.
Too many, I mean, and Thissounds terrible because I've got
an MBA and I believe I benefitedfrom it tremendously.
But too many MBAs in theremicroanalyzing everything and
not seeing the big picture is abig part of the problem, in my
opinion.
(44:18):
It's like, well, we looked atthis aspect of the business, and
this doesn't make any money.
So we should get out of this.
But they don't realize how thatimpacts everything else that the
business does.
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
Sure.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (44:29):
Not seeing the totality of it is a big problem,
I think, for many of theseacquirers that have lots of
number crunchers and they wantto do all decision making is not
data driven if it's good, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_02 (44:44):
Right.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (44:46):
You know?
Yeah, I've got a friend who's inthat business here, and they
have the biggest one inNorthwest Arkansas.
It's very successful, but theysure have to spend a lot of they
they have like uh swimming poolsand for the dogs, and all their
their grounds are astroturf, youknow, um video.
(45:09):
So when we go out of town, wecan look at our doggies and
where they're playing and whothey're playing with and all
that.
And it seems, I mean, she wouldtell you that if they hadn't
gotten their real estate whenthey did for the price that they
paid for it, there's no way itwould be financially viable
today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just because of the continued,you know, the investment in the
(45:30):
infrastructure that it takes torun and and limitations.
I mean, they charge a lot, butthere's only so much you can
charge, I guess, at some point.
SPEAKER_02 (45:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (45:40):
Well, you know, it's difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
Out of out of every business I've been in, that was
the most profitable for me.
SPEAKER_05 (45:47):
Was it really?
Uh-huh.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Yep.
Um, it was an interesting modelbecause it was a high fixed cost
model.
SPEAKER_04 (45:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
And then, like comparing contrasting that to a
Freddy's.
So, you know, let's take aFreddy's, for example.
Our average weekly sales arewere about 40,000.
But your first week, you woulddo over 100.
Well, with a doggy daycare, youknow, you open up on day one and
you don't have someone drivingby saying, Oh, there's a doggy
(46:17):
daycare, I'm gonna go buy a popacross the street and get over
there.
You know, so we have a slowerbuildup.
Oh, yeah, you wouldn't even getbreak even until about year
three.
But once you were abovebreak-even, every dollar that
came in, about 75 cents, woulddrop to the bottom line.
SPEAKER_05 (46:34):
Wow.
So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (46:37):
We ended up with about a hundred percent ROI
within three to four years onevery on every new store, where
like with Freddy's, we wereabout 25%.
So if I were in life just tomake money, I'd still by now I'd
probably have 30 or 40 of thosethings and I'd still be shurning
and burning.
(46:57):
But I, you know, um, I have thiscow habit, so you know, so I'm
all stuck on that.
So yeah.
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SPEAKER_05 (47:20):
Well, we're almost out of time, but I mean, what so
I'm sure lots of people come toyou and say, you know, I want to
you to mentor me, I want you tohelp me with my business, give
me some insight, give me someadvice.
What advice do you have foreither new or aspiring business
(47:43):
owners today that you thinkwould be helpful?
SPEAKER_02 (47:46):
Um, well, first of all, I'm really big on a
mentorship.
And there's a story behind that.
When I started uh before GTM, itwas called It's Greek to Me, um,
right out of college.
I realized like day two that wewere in over our head.
And I was in over my head forlike 10 years.
I mean, I was like, man, Ishould have studied more, and
(48:08):
you know, we didn't have anyequity.
I mean, we bootstrapped thatthing bad.
I mean, for two years we livedon the road and there were five
of us, and we'd only get twohotel rooms.
And if it was if sales weregood, then we would do like a
super eight.
SPEAKER_05 (48:25):
And sometimes we would that discipline had to
help you though.
I mean, let's face it.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (48:34):
That carried with you, I'm sure, probably to this
day.
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (48:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but so so I did two things.
I turned into a voraciousreader, and so in the evenings,
I'd spend two hours a nightreading a business book, and
then I reached out to peoplethat had been there and I put
together a network of mentors,and I think that that was the
difference I mean making or not.
(48:59):
So uh at any given time, I'mmentoring probably two to five
students, and then probably sixto eight other business people,
and uh so so I'm huge into it.
Um, with all due respect, Mark,I don't like your question
though.
Okay, and the reason why is it'stoo broad when we say what
(49:23):
general advice would you give?
Sure.
Because unless I would know alittle more about where are they
at in life, where are theywanting to go, it's it's hard to
give advice if that's general.
Um so good.
Now that I rained on your paradeon your question, I'm still
gonna try.
Um and probably the first one Iwould say is that life is a
(49:47):
journey.
And I recall at one point withGTM where in a five-year period
we went from sales of eight,eleven, fifteen, twenty-eight,
forty million.
So we went from eight to fortymillion in five years.
SPEAKER_05 (50:01):
That's a lot of growth, man.
SPEAKER_02 (50:03):
So clearly the market was saying we were doing
a lot of things right.
SPEAKER_05 (50:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (50:07):
But we still had a long list of things that I
thought we could be doingbetter.
SPEAKER_05 (50:12):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (50:12):
And instead of running around doing high fives
all the time, I was runningaround with that list.
So, in other words, I didn'tsmell the roses.
SPEAKER_05 (50:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:22):
And it's a quandary for entrepreneurs because it's
that dissatisfaction with thestatus quo, is what makes us
good at what we're doing.
Yeah.
Um, but looking back on it, Ishould have enjoyed the journey
more.
Those were some special times.
And I didn't know you're right,I didn't acknowledge it because
we still needed to make thisbetter.
(50:43):
So that's probably one thingthat I could give everyone.
We don't even know if we havetomorrow.
And so if we're not living everyday, and then the other part
that I would add is I heard thisquote and it stuck with me.
The value of our life isdirectly proportional to the
value of our relationships.
Yes, it's about people.
SPEAKER_05 (51:05):
I believe that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
And so our relationships with our family
and our close friends and tryingto turn into a servant, what can
I do to make people around melife better today?
That's success.
SPEAKER_05 (51:20):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
A lot of times they have to be they have to be old,
hairy-legged old men like you orme to figure that out.
And a lot of people still stillnever figure that out.
SPEAKER_05 (51:30):
So um no, you're so right.
I mean, it seems I've I've saidit, you know, and I'm sure
you've known people like this.
I know people who are very, verysuccessful.
And all they think about is howthey can make more and more and
more money.
And there's a certainpersonality type like that that
do really extremely well.
(51:51):
Okay.
I mean, I've, you know, I knowsome people who are
billionaires, okay, and some ofthem think like that.
But they in some ways they'resmart enough to be that
successful, but they're dumbenough that that's all they care
about.
And they miss out on therelationship aspect is what
makes life worth living.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (52:13):
You know, and you're that's I think that's such a
good point, um, Dave.
And you're such a wise person.
Um, you're you're you've learneda tremendous amount, obviously,
over the course of your lifetimethat that has um helped you be
successful, build businesses,and help all the families that
(52:35):
you help.
And now you get to do it withstudents.
SPEAKER_02 (52:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (52:40):
And that's a great thing too for people like us,
because you know, they I thinkthey push us, they keep us
young, they they keep us wherewe have to keep learning.
SPEAKER_03 (52:50):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (52:52):
Yeah.
Whereas, you know, otherwise wemaybe we wouldn't learn that.
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (52:57):
Absolutely.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (52:59):
Yep.
So that that makes for a veryrewarding life.
And and obviously, um, you'vedone that.
Well, it's really been greattalking with you here today.
SPEAKER_02 (53:10):
Well, I've I've really enjoyed our time
together.
And uh, you know, if you want aguest lecture in your class
sometime, you know, just give mea shout.
So I will.
SPEAKER_05 (53:21):
I'll take you up on that because I I I think you
have so many lessons for people.
Um, unfortunately, I don't knowwhat your experience is.
My experience is that out ofevery class, I have probably 15
to 20 percent are highlyengaged.
And then the rest are are reallythere just trying to get their
ticket punched, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02 (53:41):
And is your class a is it a requirement?
It is it for likeentrepreneurship majors or
minors?
SPEAKER_05 (53:49):
Yes, if they if they are an entrepreneurship major,
um, I I teach uh new venturedevelopment and then small
enterprise management.
So they would have to takethose, otherwise, they're
electives for a lot of people.
And we got rid of the prereqs,so non-business majors can take
these classes, which has beengood.
You know, engineers andarchitects and clothing
(54:11):
designers and people like that,which I think has helped the
class, frankly.
Some of my best students areengineering majors.
SPEAKER_02 (54:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, um, I helped start theentrepreneurship program here at
K-State about 15, 16 years agoand funded it for a while.
And uh at one point we lost aninstructor, and so I taught
three sections of the intro toentrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_05 (54:35):
Did you?
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_02 (54:37):
And um the class I teach today, I love it.
And and I think they call itT-Vows, it's where the students
evaluate the classes.
Um it's the number one ratedclass in the College of Business
at K-State.
SPEAKER_05 (54:50):
Man, that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (54:52):
It's called the Entrepreneurial Experience.
Um, it only holds 46, andthere's always a waiting list.
SPEAKER_04 (55:00):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (55:00):
And it's taught by myself and two other adjunct uh
entrepreneurs.
We each take about six weeks.
We don't even have a coursebook.
We just get up and tell stories,and we share our experience, and
then we each bring in otherguests lecturers.
And uh, I've done it for 10years now, and I just love it,
(55:23):
you know.
Um that one and even with that,we have a little bit of that
bell curve of the highly engagedand then middle, that it's not
very many that just are tryingto punch their their clock.
Most kids are there and and Iget all up in their business,
like like um like my first one.
(55:44):
I talk about relationships andmy homework assignment is if
your mom's still alive, I wantyou to call her this weekend.
If she's not someone else closein your family, and have that
conversation with her and don'tmake it about you.
You ask your mom, how is shedoing?
What's working in her life andwhat's not working in her life?
SPEAKER_05 (56:04):
And great assignment.
I love that.
Yeah, that's gonna help them besuccessful out there in the real
world, right?
They whether there's selling ordoing anything.
SPEAKER_02 (56:16):
Yeah, it's about that relationship and teaching
them how to give, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (56:21):
So uh yeah, that's brilliant.
I love it.
Well, I'd love to talk moreabout your class and and see
your syllabus, and I can tellyou about some of the things I
do because it's very similar.
I don't have a textbook, I bringin lots of people who are
business founders, people whotook over businesses, people who
bought businesses, people whoown franchises, try to give them
(56:42):
an exposure.
I think if I was to be criticalof a typical business school
education, the problem is thatthey get all these discipline
experts, but they don't everhave any integration into a sort
of a hole that that's what wecan provide is the is the
integration of all this stuff.
So there's a context, there's acontext that makes it so much
(57:05):
more memorable for them.
SPEAKER_02 (57:07):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (57:09):
You know, yep.
Because we're all sitting theremaking the judgment all day.
We all get bombarded withinformation, and our brain is
like, store this, don't storethat.
And if it seems like it's notuseful, if I'm sitting there
talking to you aboutmacroeconomics or debits and
credits, and you think I'llnever need to know this, you
know, then you don't store it.
(57:30):
But if you knew that there wasan application for that,
absolutely, then it it seems somuch more likely that it'll have
relevance to you and you'llyou'll keep it.
But anyway, we could talk aboutthat all day.
Dave, wonderful show.
Thank you for donating your timehere, and we really appreciate
(57:50):
it.
If anybody needs to reach out toyou, do you have an email
address that you would bewilling to provide?
SPEAKER_02 (57:56):
It's simply Dave at, and it's all one word, and it's
Booth, B O O T H Creek,C-R-E-E-K, Wagu, W-A-G-Y-U.com.
So Dave at Booth Creekwago.com.
SPEAKER_05 (58:14):
That's awesome.
Really appreciate that.
And hope we get to talk again,and I'll get you in my class,
hopefully.
And this has been great.
Thank you so much, Dave.
This is another episode of BigTalk About Small Business.
SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(58:56):
Business.
And be sure to head over to ourwebsite to read articles, browse
episodes, and ask questionsabout upcoming shows.
My first restaurant, I started off with a Quiznos
sub.
SPEAKER_04 (00:03):
Did you?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
And I ended up with six of them.
And then I learned how not tomake money in restaurants.
So that was our firstexperience.
SPEAKER_05 (00:14):
But welcome back, everybody, to another episode of
Big Talk About Small Business.
I'm here today with DaveDryling.
We're really lucky to have thisguy.
He's got quite an interestingbackground and has been very,
(00:38):
very successful in differentendeavors.
And I'm going to have Dave tella little bit uh about himself
here to get us uh kicked off.
But uh I was very impressed withyour background, Dave.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Well, thank you, Mark.
Now, as to whether you and thereader and the listeners are
very lucky, I let's wait tillthe end and they can be the
judge of that.
But you know, glad.
SPEAKER_05 (01:04):
You've probably been on a million of these podcasts
and interviews, I'm sure, overthe years with everything that
you've done.
But uh so tell us all a littlebit about you, though, and and
what you're doing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
Yep.
Um, well, you know, growing up,um looking back on it, um, I
would now be described as ahardcore entrepreneur.
And um now I'm old, I was bornback in the 1900s, so so uh uh I
don't think that word was eveninvented then, or if it was,
(01:38):
nobody could spell it.
But you know, I my parents, Igrew up in a town of 2,000
people, my parents had a smallfamily department um clothing
store.
And so, you know, looking backon my childhood, I really wasn't
that happy because I just hadn'tfound myself, you know.
I wasn't one of the cool kids.
Um, I tried to be an athlete, Iwasn't very good at that.
(01:59):
Uh, but I love business.
And so um when I came toManhattan, Kansas uh to and then
um went to school at KansasState University.
I joined a uh fraternity and anduh had an opportunity of
starting my first business rightout of college.
And by then, I mean, like myfirst business was I was six or
seven, I started a worm farm.
(02:21):
Um, and so I've just alwaysalways done things, and uh I get
it.
SPEAKER_05 (02:26):
Yeah, I was the same way, dude.
I was out selling bicycles on mymom and dad's street corner for
you know the time I was eight ornine years old.
So I'm the same.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
I I did that when I was about 15.
We had DB Bike Company.
We'd go to garage sales and buyold beat-up bikes and then
refurbish them and sell them.
SPEAKER_05 (02:45):
So yeah, that's awesome.
So a lot of I think a lot ofentrepreneurs showed those
tendencies early on.
Now, you went to K-State.
Did you get your degree inbusiness or did it get it in
something else?
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
No, it it it was business.
Um, I would tell you, I wasn't agreat student.
Um, I love business, I love toparty, I love to chase girls.
Uh I just wasn't into studying.
So I think my GPA was a 2.9 orsomething.
I just wanted to get out.
And uh, but um the uh fraternityI was in, I was um social
(03:22):
chairman.
And so one day this guy stoppedby and he had a uh sweatshirt,
it said Fidel State AthleticDepartment.
And he said, Hey, would you passthis around your your chapter
meeting?
And here's a sign-up sheet, andI'll stop by next week and pick
up the order.
And I said, Great.
And uh there were like 30 guysthat ordered this sweatshirt,
and I was doing the math, and itwas a$900 sale, and he was only
(03:46):
there for five or 10 minutes.
So I I asked him the next timehe stopped by.
I said, uh I just had morequestions about his business
model.
And he was just driving aroundwhat was actually the big eight
at the time, and uh um I wasjust intrigued with it.
And so um I asked him, Well, isanyone doing this in any other
(04:06):
universities?
And he said, I don't know.
So we found a book in theUniversity of Illinois in
Champaign, Urbana, at that timehad the largest Greek system in
the world.
Yeah, and so we made a dealwhere he fronted me all those
sample sweatshirts, and oneweekend I drove out there and I
dropped them off, and it tookabout a month for the orders to
come in, and he was gonna pay mefive five dollars a sweatshirt,
(04:29):
and I sold about 200sweatshirts, and so I made a
thousand dollars, which was bigmoney for me at the time.
SPEAKER_04 (04:34):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
So he approached me of when I graduated.
Uh, it was his idea that at thattime in the Greek market, if you
wanted to uh get a sweatshirtlike with your letters on it,
you could go down to your localspirit shop or you could order
out from a handful of companies.
Balfour was one of them that youwould order from a sample and it
(04:56):
would take about four to sixweeks.
And his idea was that we wouldmake up this inventory ahead of
time for the nationalsororities, and then we would
travel around and we would visityour house on meeting night and
we'd bring in a look like a bodybag, only bigger, full of
sportsware just for yourindividual house.
(05:17):
So if the girls wanted to try iton, they could, they could buy
it right there on the spot.
And no one had ever doneanything like that.
And so um that was the start ofabout a 28-year endeavor.
Um we built the Greek the uhGreek market up to about$7
million in revenue, and then wewere having troubles getting
(05:37):
traction beyond that.
Um and then uh and then I lookedat the high school market, saw
some things that I liked there.
So we changed our model from umselling into fraternity and
sorority into high schools, andalong the way, I developed a
supply chain.
I'd love to tell you that Imasterminded this, and I'm just
(05:59):
not that smart.
Uh, it took about 10 years.
Um, but I ended up with afactory in China that I was the
only, their only customer, and Iwould bring this sportswear into
Manhattan blank.
Um, we would decorate it, andthen we uh we would sell it
directly to the coaches.
So I bypassed all these otherlayers, the distributors and all
(06:21):
that.
And right um, we built thatcompany up to we were pretty
close to 80 million in revenue.
Uh about nine 900 employees herein Manhattan, and um uh ended up
selling that to Haynes Brandsthat owns Champion in 2016.
So that was pretty much my dayjob for 25 years.
(06:42):
Um we'll start dabbling inrestaurants and uh just just
sold that last month.
We had uh um there's a franchisecalled Freddy's Steak Burgers
and Frozen Custard.
SPEAKER_05 (06:56):
Love them.
Love Freddy's.
I've got a friend that that'sgot uh, I don't know, he's got
15 or 18 steak and shakes now.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_05 (07:06):
And you know, honestly, I think Freddy's has a
better offering.
It's you know, it's it issimilar in some ways as far as
the offering goes, but theFreddy's burgers are a little
bigger and a little crisper, andthe fries, you get more fries
and they're a little tastier.
I love Freddy's.
It's so how you built up a groupof Freddy's.
(07:29):
Uh I understand.
SPEAKER_02 (07:31):
We uh and I just sold that last month.
Um we had uh 43 of them.
Wow.
So uh uh I didn't spend muchtime on it.
Um, I had a really good CEO.
We would meet weekly, uh,supposed to be for an hour and
about five or ten minutes intoit, I would say, Cam, that's
great.
But can we just talk about cows?
(07:52):
Uh because my latest passion hasbeen this vertical Wagyu beef
company.
SPEAKER_05 (07:58):
So yes, yeah, I want to get into that in a minute,
but just to go back to thefranchise ownership.
Yeah, how did you like that?
I mean, you created your firstbusiness from you know, uh uh
the way you wanted it,obviously.
Yeah, and then you got got intothis franchise business where
your prices are set and you knowthey they micromanage your
(08:22):
location selection and facilitydesign and everything else.
Yeah, how do you like that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Um, I'm pretty bullish on the franchise model.
Um, in fact, in in the falls atK-State, I teach a class on
entrepreneurship and I do awhole class just just on
franchising.
SPEAKER_05 (08:40):
And um I need to have you come visit my classes.
Oh, sure.
I teach entrepreneurship here atthe Walton College.
Oh, yeah, yep.
And franchising is somethingthat is not really covered by
any of our classes, and it is adoorway to entrepreneurship that
people I think aren't fullyaware of.
(09:02):
It is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:03):
Well, I'd be happy.
Um, I don't know if I want tomake it down, but you know, we
could do it, do an online thing.
But sure.
What I share in my lecture isthat um if you're willing to
work hard and you're good withpeople, franchising is a great
model.
And the success rate withfranchising is very, very high.
So I'm pretty pretty big on it.
(09:25):
Now, having said that, um,because my first restaurant, I
started off with a Quiznos sub.
SPEAKER_04 (09:31):
Did you?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
And I ended up with six of them, and then I learned
how not to make money inrestaurants.
So that was our firstexperience.
But what I shared in theclassroom is that every
franchiseur will tell therespective franchisee their
number one goal for you is tomake money.
They all say that.
SPEAKER_05 (09:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
And in reality, there's a spectrum between the
ones that really mean it, andfor the most part, Freddie's
meant it, all the way over tolike the exact opposite.
And you know, a good examplewith Quisnos was at one point
they called us, and at thispoint, there were 5,000
restaurants, 5,000 Quisnos.
SPEAKER_04 (10:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:15):
And they said, Hey, we want to fly out.
They flew out on their corporatejet and give you this award for
uh national multi-unit operatorof the year.
So it's a pretty big deal.
Sure.
And so we met, and the the VP ofsomething, and all of his
cronies was there, and we met atmy sportswear company, and I was
(10:36):
giving them a tour, and abouthalfway through, I couldn't stay
anymore.
I put pulled the guy aside and Isaid, You you have access to our
financials, and he said, Yeah.
And I said, You know, you heldus up as the very best, and we
lost money last year.
I said, How are the othersdoing?
(10:57):
And he pulled me a littlefurther and he said, They're
losing their ass.
So, so um um, you know, it goesback to people and and the rules
that I have in deal making, andI've done so many partnerships
and deals my whole life.
Is rule number one is who's thedeal with?
And then my rule number two issee rule number one.
(11:23):
And I've done most of my dealshave turned out pretty good.
Uh, I think the thing I'm mostproud of is every deal I've ever
done.
I can pick up my phone right nowand I know they would take take
take my call.
Sure.
Um, you know, partnerships arehard.
My my crude joke in theclassroom is partnerships are
even tougher than marriagebecause there's no makeup sex.
SPEAKER_05 (11:44):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
No, it's speaking for myself, so um well said
though.
SPEAKER_05 (11:51):
It's true, it's like being married in so many ways.
Yeah, yep.
So, so, but uh you say good withpeople, and uh how do you uh
apply that to the franchiseworld?
What is what are theimplications of that?
SPEAKER_02 (12:07):
Well, depending on the franchise, you're probably
gonna be managing people.
SPEAKER_04 (12:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (12:13):
And you know, I've I've done startups and and
acquired businesses in probably10 or 12 different industries,
and every every industry willhave their own two or three
unique things to that industry.
But the common thread in almostall of them is you've got to be
you've got to be good withpeople.
You you you know, you've got to,and some of this can be learned
(12:35):
over time.
Uh, it helps if you have somenatural talent with it in the
beginning, but you've got to beable to lead lead people, you've
got to be able to communicatewell.
Um, so that's the common thread.
SPEAKER_05 (12:48):
Yeah, I don't know about you, but I'm 68 years old
now, and I think I've gotten alittle better at that over the
years.
When I was young, I was probablya lot less tolerant and maybe
not quite as uh diplomatic.
Absolutely.
If is that your experience?
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Yeah, I yeah, I I'm fairly direct.
You know, I I think I think agecan tend to, you know, kind of
knock some, you know, some roughedges off of everybody.
Um but um I think that would I'msorry, go ahead.
Well, I think um and there's apersonality profile system that
(13:28):
I use that I've used for 25years.
Okay.
Um and it'd be like um, youknow, Briggs Meyer, Myers Brig,
Disc, Colby, all of those.
Uh I'm not saying that's that'sany better.
It's better for me because Iunderstand it well.
And uh, you know, looking at mypersonality, you know, I'm I'm
naturally extroverted, um, I'mnaturally impatient.
(13:50):
Um, my conformity, I don't haveany conformity.
I mean, any rule I see to me isjust a you know a suggestion.
Uh so so some of those thingsjust naturally lean in towards
entrepreneurship, you know, alittle bit better, I think.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (14:06):
Now, when you did that the restaurant group that
you had, did you have any otherpartners in that?
SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had gee whiz, three or fourdifferent partners.
SPEAKER_05 (14:16):
Okay.
And so um why did you do thatinitially, or was that something
that evolved over time, or howdid that come about?
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
Um, it was a combination of like one of my
partners, Neil, he was just agood friend.
And it was literally almostlike, hey, I'm gonna run down to
the C store and grab a Coke.
You know, you know, do you wantanything?
I'm like, hey, Neil, I'm gonnago open this restaurant.
He went in, sure.
You know, so you know, so hejumped in.
Um uh kind of unique, and thisgoes to my impatience.
(14:49):
I discovered Quiznos, it waseither Anchor Entrepreneur
magazine, they had the list oftop 100 franchises.
Quiznos was number three.
I'd never even heard of it.
You know, the little verb wastoasted subs.
Um, the following week, my wifeand I were out skiing in
Colorado, and and one day sheturned out ski and she was
shopping.
And and that that afternoon shecame back, she says, Hey, that
(15:11):
Quiznos thing you were talkingabout, they had one.
I ate there for lunch and Iloved it.
And so literally driving backfrom Colorado, I I I started the
process of buying thatfranchise.
I'd never even eaten one.
I mean, which is kind of crazy.
I I tell my students, do what Isay, not what I do.
(15:31):
Um, and then while we weregetting that built, that was for
a store in Manhattan.
Quisnos called me and said, Hey,Lawrence is open.
And we've got a guy that wantsit, but we really like what we
see with you.
Do you want it?
And I said, Well, let me visitwith Brian.
And so I I called the guy thatwanted it.
We ended up doing a 70, 70, 30deal where he owned 30 and I own
(15:56):
70%.
And um, so I I just do dealslike that all the time.
So that's how I end up, youknow, with those original
partners.
SPEAKER_05 (16:05):
So I was always afraid of businesses like that
because it seems like yourworkforce, you have to, you have
so so many limitations on whatyou can do for the people in
terms of pay because the marginsare so thin.
SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (16:22):
You know, that it just wasn't it was a lot easier
for me personally to deal withprofessionals that are highly
compensated, where I've got youknow a lot more flexibility and
all, and what you can do forpeople, and just the turnover
that's inherent in that kind ofa business seems really like a
really tough thing.
Is that something that wediscovered as well?
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
It is a challenge.
You know, what we learned withFreddy's, and I think when I
sold it, we had 1,700 employees,and a third of them are 16 to
18-year-olds.
SPEAKER_05 (16:54):
So yeah, that's a challenge, man, as far as that
can be a challenge.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
Yep.
Um, what what we found, and thisgoes back to kind of my
philosophy, any business that Iget into, especially if I don't
know anything about, um, Iusually go find a person or a
few people that I think arereally smart, that our values
align, and then I I treat themhow I'd want to be treated.
And they end up doing all theheavy lifting, even in in my
(17:21):
company today.
People ask me what my job is,and I say, well, I just kind of
walk around and act like I knowwhat's going on.
So that's my job.
But you know, related toFreddy's, what we um discovered
is um local store leadership iseverything.
And yeah, and so our what theindustry would refer to as
(17:43):
general managers, for us, it wasrestaurant operating partners.
Um we had a very robustfinancial system where in three
years they could make a you knowa it's based on profits and a
little bit like the Chick-fil-Amodel.
But if you had a a great umperson on the ground that that
(18:06):
was a good leader that thataligned, you know, our our
turnover was oh, a thirdprobably of what the Freddie's
average was, which is even belowthe national average on you know
restaurants.
So I mean, you're still dealingwith drama and problems of 16 to
18 year olds, but for us, um,that was one of our strengths.
SPEAKER_05 (18:27):
So yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, I'd seen McDonald's thathad as high as 300% annual
turnover, which is insane.
I mean, yeah, how can you run abusiness like that?
It just seems very difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Yeah, I think ours was 140%.
So it, you know, it's still alot, but sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (18:45):
Sure.
Well, you got 16 to 18 year oldswho are gonna have that.
It's yeah, yeah.
So tell us about your currentbusiness.
I'm fascinated with that.
Of course, I love Wagu, whodoesn't?
But uh tell us, tell us aboutthis.
SPEAKER_02 (19:00):
Well, um initially, um, I had an uncle that was
raising seed stock wagu, and Ibought a half the beef from him,
and I had never even heard ofit, you know.
I was like, wow, what?
And I tried the beef and I lovedit.
I was like, I know one thing,this is what I'm gonna be eating
the rest of my life.
And yeah, that was like 2017 or18.
(19:22):
And then spring of 2020, hecalled and he was reducing his
herd.
And um, I already had about athousand-acre ranch just 10
minutes north of Manhattan thatI had bought for the deer
hunting.
Yeah, and I was so naive, Mark,that I thought, well, I'm just
gonna buy a few cows and then umand I can put them up on my
(19:44):
ranch, and then I'll just havegreat beef for friends and
family.
And so I bought 10 cows fromhim, and then um a month later
he was having an auction, and soI went there and I started
drinking the Kool-Aid and Ibought two bore two bowls and
four cows and 28 embryos, andthen I just the rest of that
summer just studied study theindustry.
(20:05):
And I felt like there was anopportunity to create a vertical
Wagyu beef company right here inthe Midwest.
And um, by vertical, I've I'veheard the industry described
really like four legs of a cow.
So you have the the actual ranchwhere the calves are produced,
that involves your genetics andall that.
(20:26):
You have the feedlot, andfeeding wagu is much different
than commercial cattle, sothat's a whole separate
business.
Yeah, you have processing, whichis uh converting them into
steaks, yeah.
That that's its whole otherbeast, and then you have sales
and distribution.
And because of my days with mysportsware company, I was always
(20:48):
leaning in towards vertical,cutting out those layers.
So uh it was August of 2020 whenI said we're gonna start a
vertical water beef company.
And um, you know, so that'sthat's what we've been doing
ever since.
SPEAKER_05 (21:05):
So tell us about how that evolved.
SPEAKER_02 (21:09):
Um yeah, well, for six years now, if I'm awake,
that's what I've been thinkingabout.
Um what I've learned is thateach one of those elements, it's
a very exciting time to be inagricultural right now because
there's so much technologypouring into ag.
Um the industry itself, and Idon't mean to be demeaning, but
(21:32):
um the industry itself, there'sa lot of guys that are in it
that uh they don't adopt the newtechnology very well.
Your typical rancher is somewhatcynical, you know, they've seen
everything come and go.
Um they're also very selfreliant.
You know, it's an industry thatif you have a calf with the
(21:54):
sniffles, you don't call a vetbecause you can't afford it, you
figure it out, and so those sameattributes.
That that have made ranchers uhpeople that I really respect um
have kind of held them back.
And so um I I could literallyspeak for 30 minutes on each one
of those segments, things thatwe're doing that's different
(22:17):
than what we're what we'reseeing in the industry.
SPEAKER_05 (22:19):
Um so well, it's kind of like general
contracting.
I had a design, build,development contracting company,
and in that field, it's the samething.
The all the small contractors,they never adopt any new
technology.
Everything is seen as too risky.
Um you know, things can gowrong.
(22:41):
New means risk, therefore, avoidall new, and they're very, very
inefficient as a result.
And there's always anopportunity when somebody comes
in and does things differentlyin those kinds of very
fragmented industries that havelots and lots of players.
And clearly that's what you'vedone there.
SPEAKER_02 (23:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (23:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So so now who do you sell yourbeef to?
Um is that so difficult todevelop a distribution uh outlet
for it?
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
No, well, you know, we're still working on it.
Um, our three channels now wouldbe we have our own retail meat
markets.
We have four of them.
Uh we have two in Kent City, ouroriginal meat market in
Manhattan, and one in Wichita.
And then we're getting ready toopen up one in Fort Worth, Texas
next week.
SPEAKER_05 (23:31):
So that's our what are those called?
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
Uh they're called Booth Creek Wagu.
unknown (23:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Meat market.
SPEAKER_04 (23:40):
And okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
And the industry hadn't really done that.
When when you go into our store,all it is is our own Wagyu
product.
And um, we sample heavily.
I mean, the minute you come in,we're taking a little chunk of
of a of a rib eye steak andwe're grilling it real quick,
and we're gonna let you sampleit.
And um, which is pretty unusual,but um, that idea came from I I
(24:07):
think I shared in August of 20,is when I wanted to start a beef
company.
And in March of 21, we wereselling at a farmer's market in
Manhattan, and I was realizingthat nobody knew anything about
Wagu at the time.
You know, we would say, if youever had Wagu, they're like,
Wow, what?
And then number two, if theyhadn't tried it, and so it was
(24:28):
fun to give someone a sample andtheir jaw would kind of drop,
and they would just get quiet,and you could tell their mind
was like, Hey, do you realizewhat you just ate?
I mean, it's just so special.
So that sampling is a big partof our retail markets.
Um, the other channels is we doe-com, and then our third one is
(24:52):
we sell wholesale into um makemainly restaurants and other
meat markets.
What I think what's interestingabout our model is a lot of
times when you have differentsale channels, you can have what
we call channel conflict, right?
If you're trying to sell retailand wholesale, um and they don't
want to yeah, I understand that.
SPEAKER_05 (25:13):
You it if if you're if you're selling retail, then
nobody wants to buy from youwholesale, right?
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (25:19):
Yeah, what we found is these three channels build
build on each other.
And I say, um, you know, likewhen we opened up our first meat
market in Kansas City, our e-comfrom that area went up.
And and you know, our restaurantbusiness and you know, your
steakhouses, they get hit withsales reps every day, you know,
from your US foods and yourCisco and all that.
(25:43):
And the guy that runs it's aGordon Ramsey restaurant in
Kansas City, he stopped in ourstore and he's looking around
and he's like, These guys knowwhat they're doing with WaGu.
So he he called us and said, Ireally want you on the the menu.
So where we're headed with this,and I'll use Fort Worth as an
(26:04):
example.
Once we have our retail storeopen, then e com is going to go
up, then we can start sellingdirectly into the restaurants,
and I don't have to go throughdistributors because every week
I'm shit I'm shipping you know aload of beef down to my store.
And so if you're a a asteakhouse and you want Booth
(26:25):
Creek on your menu, you have tobuy directly from us.
I I'm not gonna trust any kindof a middleman for it.
So that's that's kind of wherewe're headed.
SPEAKER_05 (26:35):
You know, I love the idea of a business where if
somebody wants it, I'm the onlyone place they can get it.
It's always a better position tobe in, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (26:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (26:46):
So it's interesting though that the way you started
this, you know, there in inManhattan and some of these
other cities here in the Midwestand all.
Um now Fort Worth may be anexception, but you, you know,
and and people were so surprisedat the at the flavor of the Wa
Gooo.
I guess if you were in New Yorkor Chicago or somewhere, it
(27:08):
wouldn't have seemed uh asunique to them because people
there have sampled it.
But in this case, the samplingmethod was probably the
brilliant idea to get peopleexposed to it.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, the other thing is there'sso much confusion over Wagu in
in the US today.
Um, I mean, literally six yearsago when I started, half the
people hadn't even heard of it.
Uh, I'm sure if we did a big uhrigorous survey today, you know,
probably 80 or 90 percent ofpeople have heard about it, that
(27:45):
there's a lot of confusion.
And so what we did is wedeveloped our own system where
every animal that goes throughmy plant, we get them up, get
the hide off, chill the carcass,cut it in between the 12th and
13th rib, which is just likewhat USDA does.
And then we have this systemwhere we take this picture of
(28:06):
it, of that ribeye, it goes upinto the cloud, it goes over to
Japan, they look at it and gradeit out for us.
And it comes back over and ittells us the specific percentage
of marbling.
SPEAKER_04 (28:18):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02 (28:19):
And that's the key.
The problem with USDA grading iseven USDA prime goes up to about
16 or 18 percent, what we'llcall DMP or digital marbling
percentage.
Um so our stuff starts there,but you you've probably heard of
Japanese A5.
That's way up in the 60 percent.
(28:41):
Wow, so you have all this range,and so we have four grades.
We have BC, which stands forBooth Creek 10, BC 20, 30, and
40.
And those numbers um signifymarbling percentage.
Yes, and we even print on thestake that, like, if I'm looking
(29:03):
at a at a ribeye, that theanimal that this was harvested
from, this is a 33% marbling.
SPEAKER_05 (29:09):
I see.
And um nobody else offers theseuh that kind of control, I
guess, over the quality and theselection of the product, right?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Yeah, and and it's really important because it's
funny to me when people come inand you see them arguing about
wagu, and they're like, well,it's got to be Japanese A5, or
it's you know, it's too fatty,or it's this, or whatever.
That's like arguing about beeror wine or bourbon.
It's based upon our own tastebuds.
SPEAKER_04 (29:38):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (29:39):
No one's wrong.
But what this does is helppeople dial in, you know, right.
Where in time you could say,Yep, I love a Booth Creek uh 30
to 35% marbling strip.
That's my that's my stake.
Or maybe my wife doesn't like asmuch marbling, so she wants a
BC20 fillet.
SPEAKER_05 (29:57):
So uh Well, I'm sure the the real chefs that run
these uh you know uh high-endrestaurants must love that
because they're quality.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Well, it's all about consistency.
And yeah, well, one of mymentors, when I first got into
this, he said, Dave, figure outhow to make your product
consistent.
And he said, even if yourquality is poor, make it
consistent.
SPEAKER_05 (30:26):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (30:28):
Did you I'm curious now, has did owning the
franchise restaurants that youdid influence how you do your
business today in any way?
SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
Yes, it did.
That's a really good question.
Um, what helped me was because Ihad all the infrastructure of a
pretty big company.
SPEAKER_04 (30:51):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (30:52):
So as I launched Booth Creek, I didn't have to
have my own IT, I didn't need myown finance, I didn't need
accounting, I didn't need HR.
I already had all that built.
And so that's what I calledscaffolding.
SPEAKER_04 (31:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
And so I could just focus in on how do we create the
best genetics and the bestfeeding and the best, you know.
I didn't have to put alltogether all those other pieces.
Now, I just sold that companythis last month, and we have 12
months now to wean ourselves offof that.
So currently we're going in andnow hiring our own HR and IT and
(31:28):
all that.
But um, I think that helped helpme a lot.
SPEAKER_05 (31:32):
That's interesting.
Yeah, I don't know if you saw,I'm a motorcycle guy and I'm an
owner in a motorcyclemanufacturing business.
Um, Indian was just spun offfrom Polaris to a private equity
firm.
And that's one of the challengesthey have is you know, carving
that thing out when all thosesupport services basically have
(31:53):
been provided by Polaris iscreating a lot of challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (31:58):
Yep.
And so they have to recreatesome of that.
I mean, it has its advantagestoo now, as they can.
Exactly.
So have services that are veryspecific for what they're trying
to do and maybe not replicateall the excess overhead or
problems associated with anestablished business like that.
SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (32:21):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (32:22):
How do you how do you deal with so you've grown
these businesses and been indifferent industries clearly?
How do you deal with, you know,as you build these businesses,
um, you've got to bring expertsin, people who are discipline
experts or people who, you know,have some particular skill set
(32:46):
in IT or marketing, or thingsmaybe that you don't consider
yourself the expert in.
How do you deal with that interms of not um I it's hard for
me to articulate, but a lot oftimes these people come out of
larger organizations that arevery bureaucratic.
SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (33:07):
And and the tendency may be to come into your company
and say, well, at ABC, we did itlike this.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
And then they want to try to make you like ABC.
And how do you how do youcounter that or how do you deal
with that?
SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
Um, I found for the most part it doesn't work very
well.
Um with my sportswear company,we we had about a two or three
year period where I felt likewe'd kind of outgrown our team.
And so I started bringing insome of the big guns.
Yeah, it didn't work.
Um, it was not a good culturefit, it didn't work.
(33:48):
And so um there's a study thatHarvard did, uh kind of going
off on a on a little tangenthere, but I think it's really
important because it applies toabout any and all business, and
um that showed that when we hirepeople, typically the number one
thing that people are hired onis experience, and that's what
you're talking about.
SPEAKER_04 (34:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
And if we follow a typical search, that's how it
works.
You know, you gather up theirresume in in the in the
interview, you're going throughtheir history, you're talking
about experience.
That's the number one thing thatwe hire for.
That same study showed that ifon down the line it didn't work
out for any reason, it washardly ever experience.
(34:32):
It was fit, it was culture, itwas values, it was do they have
grit?
Do they, you know, all of thatstuff?
Sure.
So if we think about that, whyis that so messed up?
And my theory is this it's mucheasier to discern someone based
upon their experience.
You can walk through theirresumes, you can talk about
(34:53):
gaps, you can even behavioral,you know, based interviews, you
can say, hey, who is your bestboss?
That part's easy.
It's hard to dig in to the otherside of it.
So with that in mind, um, Idon't hire on experience, man.
I I go for the other stuff.
SPEAKER_05 (35:13):
Um interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (35:15):
And and and then this is the other thing that I
teach in in the classroom that Ithink that's really important is
you know, the old adage is slowto hire and quick to fire.
Yeah, we tend to be the exactopposite.
You know, I'm in pain, I justneed somebody.
And so, you know, we hiresomeone quick.
(35:35):
And then uh I I enjoy kind ofsharing this experience in the
classroom.
Um, if we made a bad hire, thebest thing for us is that we
made a terrible hire that isobvious in a short amount of
time.
SPEAKER_05 (35:47):
We move quickly, yeah, exactly.
Instead of waiting two years tofigure that out, right?
SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
It usually doesn't work out that way.
It usually starts with a littleping in your gut, 60 to 90 days
in, you're like, Eee, I'm notquite seeing the behavior that I
expected.
And then we always we alwayslook look inward and we always
say, Well, you know what?
I didn't spend enough timetraining them, I didn't spend
enough time communicating withthem.
You know, we put it on, youknow, we put it on me.
(36:15):
And the the reason, thepsychology behind it is because
we don't want to face the factthat I may have just made a bad
hire.
And if if I have to have thatconversation and let that person
go, number one, if aconversation like that doesn't
bother you, then we got biggerproblems.
(36:37):
You know, yeah, you're talkingabout someone's breadbasket,
they probably have a family, sothat's a pain, painful
conversation.
Yes.
Number two, then you're going tobe faced with going out and
trying to make a a decision onsomething you just failed at.
Um, and and uh and number three,sometimes by then you're really
(37:01):
in pain, and and you're facedwith this of well, this isn't
person, isn't quite what Ithought, but my goodness, if
they're gone, then I'm even inmore pain.
SPEAKER_05 (37:10):
That's the thing.
It's like I have to do their jobon top of all the other jobs I'm
doing, right?
And you don't want to go thereif you can avoid it.
SPEAKER_02 (37:18):
That's right.
So here's the big miss, though.
And um Jim Collins, you know,who I'm a big fan of, uh, this
was in his book, Good to Great,in chapter two.
He's the one that coined theterm of getting the right people
on the bus and the wrong off andall that.
And you know, what what he'slaid out is it's easy for us to
(37:40):
visualize the pain and sufferingof let's say having to let
someone go, and then uh what'sit going to look like in the
organization?
That's easy, easy to visualize.
What is much more difficult tovisualize is if we're trying to
populate our company with the Aand B players and get A and B
results, and we've got a C or aD, then what's the collective
(38:05):
pain for the rest of the companythat's trying trying to get
results, and this person or thisdepartment is holding them back?
And collectively, that's usuallya lot greater.
And if we if we let it go longenough, then eventually our A
players are gonna leave anyway.
SPEAKER_05 (38:22):
So yeah, the A as I always said, HR problems, if
ignored, will go away.
The people will go away.
That's the problem.
Yeah, but uh yeah, I've beencritical.
I mean, uh there's a lot of goodstuff in good to great, but I've
been critical of it only becausesometimes I think, you know,
particularly things with like umlevel five leadership as an
(38:46):
example, doesn't necessarilyapply to smaller entrepreneurial
organizations.
True, you know, yeah.
We can't all just beinstitutional leaders that
nobody even knows that we'rethere and we're working behind
the scenes or whatever.
Exactly.
In smaller companies, we needlevel four leaders still.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (39:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (39:08):
But if you have you found in any of the companies
now, uh you know, so this uhrestaurant group that you sold,
uh, you know, I assume thatyou're just completely out of
that now, or do you are youstill involved with it for a
period of time?
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
Nope, I'm out.
SPEAKER_05 (39:24):
You're out, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (39:25):
Have you found in in any of the businesses uh that
you've been involved with whereyou stick around that you know
they start doing things thatdrive you absolutely insane?
SPEAKER_02 (39:36):
And oh, absolutely.
Yeah, how do you deal with that?
So when I sold GTM Sportswear toHaynes Brands, uh-huh, um, I
wasn't contractually obligated,but I stuck around for 18
months.
SPEAKER_04 (39:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
And on day 38 post-sale, I called my boss, uh,
and he was a great guy, but Isaid, John, this is not working
for me.
Um, it's just so much different.
And uh at the time I was on forthe College of Business at
K-State, I was on an advisorycouncil, and Randy Sims was a
(40:14):
good buddy of mine that he waschief legal counsel for Cerner,
which is a big, big player inthe um, I think it's medical
software space.
And for years they had been onan acquisition spree, and I was
telling Randy about my sale, andhe said, Well, what are your
plans?
I said, Well, you know, I'mgonna stick around, and and I
stuck around for two reasons.
(40:35):
One is we were the largestemployer in Manhattan, and you
know, I wanted to make sure thatwe got off to a good start.
SPEAKER_04 (40:43):
Sure, you care.
SPEAKER_02 (40:44):
Number two, two, I had never really been an
employee before, especially abig corporate employee.
I just wanted to see what it waslike, so I said, Well, Randy,
you know, I'm gonna stick aroundand I think we can do some
really big things for Haynes.
And he said, Well, Dave, I canshare with you my experience.
We've done about 50 deals, andon half of them, the founder was
(41:05):
gonna stick around.
And on and to date, there's onlytwo of them that are still
there.
SPEAKER_05 (41:10):
It's such a different world, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not saying it doesn't work,but the odds are really, really,
really low.
SPEAKER_05 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah.
It's it I've experienced thatmyself.
I sold my my primary business toa private equity firm and just
watched them destroy it.
SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (41:28):
They not understanding why we were
successful.
I mean, they threw outeverything that we did that was
good, like the shared bonusprogram and open book management
and you know, things that werejust fundamental to the
business.
And instead of, you know, we'regonna put pit each manager
against the other ones, and theyeach have their unique bonus
(41:52):
program, and now they don'tcooperate with each other, and
you know, you can just predictwhat happened after that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:58):
Yeah, that that's absolutely been been my
experience, you know.
GTM again, 10 years ago I soldit, and and I think at that
point we had about 700employees, and then last year
they sold off Champion to aprivate equity company.
And when I sold that, I retainedthe the uh real estate, and so
(42:19):
across the street from where Iam now, I've got a building
that's sure 180,000 square feet.
It's it's it's a big building.
And they ended up calling andsaying, We're we're you know
consolidating things, and youknow, they ended up leaving
early.
Um, I mean they basically ran itinto the ground.
And uh related to Haynes, what Ilearned was that our culture at
(42:43):
GTM Sportsware was we were asales company, we were about
selling sportsware.
So I ended up with a robustsupply chain, and I ended up
with like our embroiderydepartment.
I think we had 250 peopleoperating 24-7.
I did all that stuff because Ihad to to sell more sportsware.
Yeah, Keynes is a really goodsupply chain company, but they
(43:03):
didn't really value sales, andso um, just you know, a
completely different look.
Uh we haven't even brought itup, but uh six years ago I was
intrigued with the pethospitality business.
Okay, so doggy daycares, and soI got in that and we opened up
nine stores in less than twoyears, um, and really got after
(43:27):
it.
Uh, I wouldn't recommend goingas fast as we did.
It was rocky, but we managed tosomehow live through it.
Um, and then three years ago Isold that off to I'm a private
equity, and they're they'redoing a roll up and uh um you
know I visit with some most ofthe people that I had are gone
because you know the culturechanged, you know.
(43:48):
It's it you know, privateequity.
And I hate to label an entireindustry, but yeah, we know how
most of them operate.
SPEAKER_05 (43:57):
Yes, I do.
Too many, I mean, and Thissounds terrible because I've got
an MBA and I believe I benefitedfrom it tremendously.
But too many MBAs in theremicroanalyzing everything and
not seeing the big picture is abig part of the problem, in my
opinion.
(44:18):
It's like, well, we looked atthis aspect of the business, and
this doesn't make any money.
So we should get out of this.
But they don't realize how thatimpacts everything else that the
business does.
SPEAKER_02 (44:28):
Sure.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (44:29):
Not seeing the totality of it is a big problem,
I think, for many of theseacquirers that have lots of
number crunchers and they wantto do all decision making is not
data driven if it's good, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_02 (44:44):
Right.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (44:46):
You know?
Yeah, I've got a friend who's inthat business here, and they
have the biggest one inNorthwest Arkansas.
It's very successful, but theysure have to spend a lot of they
they have like uh swimming poolsand for the dogs, and all their
their grounds are astroturf, youknow, um video.
(45:09):
So when we go out of town, wecan look at our doggies and
where they're playing and whothey're playing with and all
that.
And it seems, I mean, she wouldtell you that if they hadn't
gotten their real estate whenthey did for the price that they
paid for it, there's no way itwould be financially viable
today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just because of the continued,you know, the investment in the
(45:30):
infrastructure that it takes torun and and limitations.
I mean, they charge a lot, butthere's only so much you can
charge, I guess, at some point.
SPEAKER_02 (45:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (45:40):
Well, you know, it's difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (45:42):
Out of out of every business I've been in, that was
the most profitable for me.
SPEAKER_05 (45:47):
Was it really?
Uh-huh.
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (45:50):
Yep.
Um, it was an interesting modelbecause it was a high fixed cost
model.
SPEAKER_04 (45:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
And then, like comparing contrasting that to a
Freddy's.
So, you know, let's take aFreddy's, for example.
Our average weekly sales arewere about 40,000.
But your first week, you woulddo over 100.
Well, with a doggy daycare, youknow, you open up on day one and
you don't have someone drivingby saying, Oh, there's a doggy
(46:17):
daycare, I'm gonna go buy a popacross the street and get over
there.
You know, so we have a slowerbuildup.
Oh, yeah, you wouldn't even getbreak even until about year
three.
But once you were abovebreak-even, every dollar that
came in, about 75 cents, woulddrop to the bottom line.
SPEAKER_05 (46:34):
Wow.
So that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (46:37):
We ended up with about a hundred percent ROI
within three to four years onevery on every new store, where
like with Freddy's, we wereabout 25%.
So if I were in life just tomake money, I'd still by now I'd
probably have 30 or 40 of thosethings and I'd still be shurning
and burning.
(46:57):
But I, you know, um, I have thiscow habit, so you know, so I'm
all stuck on that.
So yeah.
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SPEAKER_05 (47:20):
Well, we're almost out of time, but I mean, what so
I'm sure lots of people come toyou and say, you know, I want to
you to mentor me, I want you tohelp me with my business, give
me some insight, give me someadvice.
What advice do you have foreither new or aspiring business
(47:43):
owners today that you thinkwould be helpful?
SPEAKER_02 (47:46):
Um, well, first of all, I'm really big on a
mentorship.
And there's a story behind that.
When I started uh before GTM, itwas called It's Greek to Me, um,
right out of college.
I realized like day two that wewere in over our head.
And I was in over my head forlike 10 years.
I mean, I was like, man, Ishould have studied more, and
(48:08):
you know, we didn't have anyequity.
I mean, we bootstrapped thatthing bad.
I mean, for two years we livedon the road and there were five
of us, and we'd only get twohotel rooms.
And if it was if sales weregood, then we would do like a
super eight.
SPEAKER_05 (48:25):
And sometimes we would that discipline had to
help you though.
I mean, let's face it.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (48:34):
That carried with you, I'm sure, probably to this
day.
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (48:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but so so I did two things.
I turned into a voraciousreader, and so in the evenings,
I'd spend two hours a nightreading a business book, and
then I reached out to peoplethat had been there and I put
together a network of mentors,and I think that that was the
difference I mean making or not.
(48:59):
So uh at any given time, I'mmentoring probably two to five
students, and then probably sixto eight other business people,
and uh so so I'm huge into it.
Um, with all due respect, Mark,I don't like your question
though.
Okay, and the reason why is it'stoo broad when we say what
(49:23):
general advice would you give?
Sure.
Because unless I would know alittle more about where are they
at in life, where are theywanting to go, it's it's hard to
give advice if that's general.
Um so good.
Now that I rained on your paradeon your question, I'm still
gonna try.
Um and probably the first one Iwould say is that life is a
(49:47):
journey.
And I recall at one point withGTM where in a five-year period
we went from sales of eight,eleven, fifteen, twenty-eight,
forty million.
So we went from eight to fortymillion in five years.
SPEAKER_05 (50:01):
That's a lot of growth, man.
SPEAKER_02 (50:03):
So clearly the market was saying we were doing
a lot of things right.
SPEAKER_05 (50:07):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (50:07):
But we still had a long list of things that I
thought we could be doingbetter.
SPEAKER_05 (50:12):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (50:12):
And instead of running around doing high fives
all the time, I was runningaround with that list.
So, in other words, I didn'tsmell the roses.
SPEAKER_05 (50:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (50:22):
And it's a quandary for entrepreneurs because it's
that dissatisfaction with thestatus quo, is what makes us
good at what we're doing.
Yeah.
Um, but looking back on it, Ishould have enjoyed the journey
more.
Those were some special times.
And I didn't know you're right,I didn't acknowledge it because
we still needed to make thisbetter.
(50:43):
So that's probably one thingthat I could give everyone.
We don't even know if we havetomorrow.
And so if we're not living everyday, and then the other part
that I would add is I heard thisquote and it stuck with me.
The value of our life isdirectly proportional to the
value of our relationships.
Yes, it's about people.
SPEAKER_05 (51:05):
I believe that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
And so our relationships with our family
and our close friends and tryingto turn into a servant, what can
I do to make people around melife better today?
That's success.
SPEAKER_05 (51:20):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
A lot of times they have to be they have to be old,
hairy-legged old men like you orme to figure that out.
And a lot of people still stillnever figure that out.
SPEAKER_05 (51:30):
So um no, you're so right.
I mean, it seems I've I've saidit, you know, and I'm sure
you've known people like this.
I know people who are very, verysuccessful.
And all they think about is howthey can make more and more and
more money.
And there's a certainpersonality type like that that
do really extremely well.
(51:51):
Okay.
I mean, I've, you know, I knowsome people who are
billionaires, okay, and some ofthem think like that.
But they in some ways they'resmart enough to be that
successful, but they're dumbenough that that's all they care
about.
And they miss out on therelationship aspect is what
makes life worth living.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Yes.
SPEAKER_05 (52:13):
You know, and you're that's I think that's such a
good point, um, Dave.
And you're such a wise person.
Um, you're you're you've learneda tremendous amount, obviously,
over the course of your lifetimethat that has um helped you be
successful, build businesses,and help all the families that
(52:35):
you help.
And now you get to do it withstudents.
SPEAKER_02 (52:39):
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (52:40):
And that's a great thing too for people like us,
because you know, they I thinkthey push us, they keep us
young, they they keep us wherewe have to keep learning.
SPEAKER_03 (52:50):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (52:52):
Yeah.
Whereas, you know, otherwise wemaybe we wouldn't learn that.
You know.
SPEAKER_02 (52:57):
Absolutely.
Yep.
SPEAKER_05 (52:59):
Yep.
So that that makes for a veryrewarding life.
And and obviously, um, you'vedone that.
Well, it's really been greattalking with you here today.
SPEAKER_02 (53:10):
Well, I've I've really enjoyed our time
together.
And uh, you know, if you want aguest lecture in your class
sometime, you know, just give mea shout.
So I will.
SPEAKER_05 (53:21):
I'll take you up on that because I I I think you
have so many lessons for people.
Um, unfortunately, I don't knowwhat your experience is.
My experience is that out ofevery class, I have probably 15
to 20 percent are highlyengaged.
And then the rest are are reallythere just trying to get their
ticket punched, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02 (53:41):
And is your class a is it a requirement?
It is it for likeentrepreneurship majors or
minors?
SPEAKER_05 (53:49):
Yes, if they if they are an entrepreneurship major,
um, I I teach uh new venturedevelopment and then small
enterprise management.
So they would have to takethose, otherwise, they're
electives for a lot of people.
And we got rid of the prereqs,so non-business majors can take
these classes, which has beengood.
You know, engineers andarchitects and clothing
(54:11):
designers and people like that,which I think has helped the
class, frankly.
Some of my best students areengineering majors.
SPEAKER_02 (54:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, um, I helped start theentrepreneurship program here at
K-State about 15, 16 years agoand funded it for a while.
And uh at one point we lost aninstructor, and so I taught
three sections of the intro toentrepreneurship.
SPEAKER_05 (54:35):
Did you?
Uh huh.
SPEAKER_02 (54:37):
And um the class I teach today, I love it.
And and I think they call itT-Vows, it's where the students
evaluate the classes.
Um it's the number one ratedclass in the College of Business
at K-State.
SPEAKER_05 (54:50):
Man, that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (54:52):
It's called the Entrepreneurial Experience.
Um, it only holds 46, andthere's always a waiting list.
SPEAKER_04 (55:00):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (55:00):
And it's taught by myself and two other adjunct uh
entrepreneurs.
We each take about six weeks.
We don't even have a coursebook.
We just get up and tell stories,and we share our experience, and
then we each bring in otherguests lecturers.
And uh, I've done it for 10years now, and I just love it,
(55:23):
you know.
Um that one and even with that,we have a little bit of that
bell curve of the highly engagedand then middle, that it's not
very many that just are tryingto punch their their clock.
Most kids are there and and Iget all up in their business,
like like um like my first one.
(55:44):
I talk about relationships andmy homework assignment is if
your mom's still alive, I wantyou to call her this weekend.
If she's not someone else closein your family, and have that
conversation with her and don'tmake it about you.
You ask your mom, how is shedoing?
What's working in her life andwhat's not working in her life?
SPEAKER_05 (56:04):
And great assignment.
I love that.
Yeah, that's gonna help them besuccessful out there in the real
world, right?
They whether there's selling ordoing anything.
SPEAKER_02 (56:16):
Yeah, it's about that relationship and teaching
them how to give, you know.
SPEAKER_05 (56:21):
So uh yeah, that's brilliant.
I love it.
Well, I'd love to talk moreabout your class and and see
your syllabus, and I can tellyou about some of the things I
do because it's very similar.
I don't have a textbook, I bringin lots of people who are
business founders, people whotook over businesses, people who
bought businesses, people whoown franchises, try to give them
(56:42):
an exposure.
I think if I was to be criticalof a typical business school
education, the problem is thatthey get all these discipline
experts, but they don't everhave any integration into a sort
of a hole that that's what wecan provide is the is the
integration of all this stuff.
So there's a context, there's acontext that makes it so much
(57:05):
more memorable for them.
SPEAKER_02 (57:07):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05 (57:09):
You know, yep.
Because we're all sitting theremaking the judgment all day.
We all get bombarded withinformation, and our brain is
like, store this, don't storethat.
And if it seems like it's notuseful, if I'm sitting there
talking to you aboutmacroeconomics or debits and
credits, and you think I'llnever need to know this, you
know, then you don't store it.
(57:30):
But if you knew that there wasan application for that,
absolutely, then it it seems somuch more likely that it'll have
relevance to you and you'llyou'll keep it.
But anyway, we could talk aboutthat all day.
Dave, wonderful show.
Thank you for donating your timehere, and we really appreciate
(57:50):
it.
If anybody needs to reach out toyou, do you have an email
address that you would bewilling to provide?
SPEAKER_02 (57:56):
It's simply Dave at, and it's all one word, and it's
Booth, B O O T H Creek,C-R-E-E-K, Wagu, W-A-G-Y-U.com.
So Dave at Booth Creekwago.com.
SPEAKER_05 (58:14):
That's awesome.
Really appreciate that.
And hope we get to talk again,and I'll get you in my class,
hopefully.
And this has been great.
Thank you so much, Dave.
This is another episode of BigTalk About Small Business.
SPEAKER_01 (58:35):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(58:56):
Business.
And be sure to head over to ourwebsite to read articles, browse
episodes, and ask questionsabout upcoming shows.
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