March 4, 2026 • 51 mins
Ever feel like your brain is running a marathon while your body waves a white flag? We sat down with Abby Harmon, ex-Amazon leader and founder of House Harmon, to unpack how entrepreneurs can stay fast without frying their circuits. Abby lays out a simple truth: when you lead from a regulated nervous system, you make sharper decisions, sustain energy, and unlock real creativity. When you lead from fear, you push teams into urgency, narrow your time horizon, and quietly starve innovation.
Across the hour, we trace Abby’s path from corporate leadership to coaching founders, engineers, and executives through workshops, retreats, and flow-state priming. She explains why AI’s breakneck pace has many of us stuck in sympathetic overdrive, and how a few targeted habits, long exhales, tiny device-free breaks, or a walk outside, signal safety to the body and hand the wheel back to your prefrontal cortex. We also get practical with data: HRV and biometrics make the “soft stuff” visible, creating buy-in and measurable performance gains for leaders and teams.
We push into culture and execution: how to replace fear-led management with physiological safety so people think boldly, not just quickly. Abby shows how to name intense emotions without being ruled by them, reframe constraints into possibility, and delegate draining tasks to protect the mental bandwidth that actually moves the business. She even shares how she scales a high-touch practice with AI-powered workflows, proving small teams can deliver personalized impact at modern speed.
If you’re ambitious, exhausted, and ready to trade reactivity for clarity, this conversation gives you the playbook: regulate, then accelerate. Subscribe for more unvarnished tactics for founders and operators, share this with a leader who needs a reset, and leave a review to tell us the one habit you’ll try this week.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
As soon as you start to manage a business via risk,
then you're starting to buildbased on fear.
Which is why innovation andagility don't exist in
large-scale corporations and whyentrepreneurs are able to
disrupt.
So that creativity comes fromregulation.
And that's where we have tobuild.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
You're in Seattle.
We're in Northwest Arkansas.
This is another episode of theBig Talk about small business.
And we're glad you're here withus.
Um, tell everybody a little bitabout yourself, please.
Um know more about Abby Harmon.
SPEAKER_05 (00:44):
Yes.
Um, so I haven't been in Seattlemy whole life.
I actually grew up in Virginia,um, very sort of traditionally
raised Jewish family.
So I focused a lot on education,financial stability, business.
Um, you know, I was driventowards STEM early as a as a
child.
(01:05):
Um, and uh I sort of followed uma career path from more of a
corporate environment.
I worked at the Targetheadquarters.
Uh, and then I actually movedout to Seattle, gosh, now about
15 years ago to work at Amazon,back when they were a little
tech startup.
And my path has sort ofprogressed from there, um,
(01:26):
increasingly getting intosmaller and smaller
organizations, kind of followingdisruption and maybe a sense of
art within.
Um, and then I started my ownbusiness now about 18 months
ago.
I never thought that I was goingto land on the founder path.
Um, but maybe working withfounders like Eric has inspired
(01:46):
and motivated me over the years.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
She's like a fan idiot can do it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Anybody can.
Eric is inspirational.
No, he really is.
I he is.
I come here every week just toget inspired by him.
Thank you, Mart.
That's it.
That's the whole purpose.
I come energized.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
I come here to get some wisdom from you.
Well, you came to the wrong.
You're like, you're you'rebasically you're my father.
Oh, dad.
Thanks, son.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
I'd be proud to have you as a son.
I'll be proud to have you as adad.
Thanks.
This is beautiful, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_04 (02:21):
It is it is beautiful.
I'm like, I'll just be a uh stepcousin.
Let me in.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
Hey, look, we literally just created a family
on this show.
We did.
It's right here.
It's Harman's Wag and Howarton.
That's got a couple name to it.
Does it?
Harman's Wag and Howarton.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Could be good.
Or Harman Howerton.
Howerton Horman Zweig.
Yeah.
It all sounds good.
Whatever.
So anyway, Abby, so you keepworking for smaller and smaller
companies.
You started your business 18months ago.
What is the name of yourbusiness and what does it do?
SPEAKER_05 (02:56):
Yeah.
So the business is called HouseHarmon.
And it was born from a gap thatI saw in the technology world
that I was a part of for solong.
Um, you know, a space that is sodependent on expansive
innovation and creativity.
And yet, as it has matured, alot of transition into very
(03:19):
short-term thinking mentality, alot of fear of what is
disrupting the market.
And what I recognize is that alot of leaders didn't have the
skill set to actually navigatethat type of constant change,
the constant activation thatthey were under, and that that
gap was actually physiological.
So I completely pivoted,basically went back to school,
(03:41):
learned neuroscience, learned alot of Eastern medicine,
philosophy, meditation,breathwork, all trying to figure
out well, how do I link what isthe gap of physiological
performance back into what doesthe tech industry really need to
be able to find that innovationand clarity of thought again?
(04:02):
And so all of the work that I dois very much around the nervous
system and both educating andactually integrating an
understanding of the nervoussystem into day-to-day
performance.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I want to give some credibility to Abby real quick.
I mean, we worked together atFlywheel, which was a great
organization.
That was the company that boughtWhite Spider back Saturday.
And that's how I met Abby.
Abby would been there.
You're what was your positionthere at Flywheel when when we
got acquired?
SPEAKER_05 (04:30):
You were Yeah, I was the managing director, so I had
taken over from the founders.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So she had a really heavy loadthere.
Then you what what year did youwork at Amazon?
What years were that?
SPEAKER_05 (04:42):
I was at Amazon in the early teens, so about 2010
to 2015.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Yeah, so significant, I would say
significant credibility in techspace, right?
A lot in the ad space too,because I know that's what
Flywheel did.
Like, I mean, it was I mean,it's to our point, a lot of
technology disruption going onall the time.
I mean daily.
And um uh and and then I thinkthat you know, when when Nabby
(05:08):
talks about that, and I stillI'm in the space with Ad Fury
again, deep and heavy, like notex in the AI on top of this, but
she talks about this technologydisruption and the amount of
overload that goes on in youknow, plus the fear, you know.
I mean, it's it's it's actuallykind of real, right?
And my experience in AI, when Ijumped into the AI space in the
(05:33):
ad tech AI space with ad fury,it was A, I I jumped back in,
Abby, because I I wanted to makesure that I was engaged with the
times.
Really honestly didn'tnecessarily want to necessarily
be back in the space as a whole,but I was like, I can't you felt
like you needed it.
I had to get there because A, itneeded to be done right.
(05:55):
And I'm only, you know, asentrepreneurs do, we only trust
ourselves to do something right.
Yep.
Um, but man, I tell you, thereis a big difference in what's
going on today with AI, and Ithink it's impacting all
businesses, obviously.
But the velocity of change, Imean, is something I've never
ever ever experienced before.
(06:16):
Like every single day, multipletimes.
That's crazy.
Something else is about todisrupt.
And before he even got on theshow, I was telling Mark, like,
man, I'm exhausted at the end ofthe day.
Like, just from brain fatigue.
Like, I mean, and then itphysically exhausts me.
And it's happened to me twicethis week, and it's pretty
relevant to me right now.
(06:36):
Like, I've gotten off at likefive or six, and and I had plans
to go do X, Y, and Z.
I don't have the energy.
I don't have anything in my Idon't have anything left in me.
And then I can't sleep wellbecause now I have more energy
by the time it's time for bed.
Right?
And that's am I am I hitting ona little bit about what you
might help people do?
SPEAKER_05 (06:57):
Indeed.
Yes.
It's actually it's fascinatingbecause the evolution and change
of what's happened in the techindustry over, well, let's say
the last 20 years, you know,having a phone that you look at
within five minutes of wakingup, something that you're on for
sometimes eight hours a day, youknow, you look at a generation
(07:19):
that's using, yeah, all right,you know, if if if you're good,
um, that's like the generalstats across the entire
population.
But you look at folks that areunder 40, they're using YouTube,
TikTok to ingest all of theirmedia on the phone for far
longer.
And then at the same time, youhave you know 100 million
downloads of apps like Calm andBetter Help.
(07:42):
So folks know that they don'tfeel good, but they don't
necessarily know the why.
And then you look at the last 18months of what's happened with
AI, um, so much disruption,uncertainty about the future,
question marks on where my youknow career and financial
stability is going to come from.
That type of active, constant,urgent stress is completely at
(08:06):
odds with our human evolution.
If you look at our humanevolution, um, you know, we have
two parts of our system.
The parasympathetic came fromsponges.
So it's about 200 million yearsold.
And then our like fight, flight,our ability to be predators, to
chase, but also run away, youknow, that is also millions of
(08:27):
years old.
So you apply hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
We like the sponge part.
No, we like the predator part,right?
Wow, it sounds good to us.
SPEAKER_05 (08:37):
Predators are good, right?
It's our ability to keep pace.
We love that grind, that hustle,that agility.
But the system works bymobilizing and then it needs to
stabilize in order to mobilizeagain.
So if we're always on, itactually creates a sense of, you
know, I say dysregulation, butit basically creates dynamics
(09:00):
from a physical state, from amental state where we can't
sustain at that pace.
And so an understanding of thesystem and knowing like, well,
how do I take these little microbreaks throughout the day so
that I'm not exhausted, so thatmy brain can actually pace with
the change that's happening, sothat I can think clearly and
creatively.
Um, all of that is actuallystarting to realize, like, oh,
(09:22):
our evolution has not nearlypaced as fast as the technology
industry around us.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
You know, when I had a preemptive discussion with
Abby before she came on the showbecause I was like, Abby,
listen, Mark and I don't want toslow down.
Entrepreneurs, we don't want toslow down.
This is we I would actually loveto have a miracle shot that I
could stick in the side of myneck every day.
Yeah.
That makes me go 24-7.
I hate sleeping.
(09:48):
Sleeping pisses me off becauseit's such a waste of time.
Like, I wish I could just go andI don't want to eat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
I don't hate taking an eating break.
I'm telling you, it you whatyou're saying is so familiar to
me.
I mean, like, I feel like I'mworking harder than I ever have,
and I'm almost 68.
Yeah.
I'm trying to do other thingslike workout four days a week.
I'm trying to change my diet.
I'm hardly eating a regular mealever.
Yeah.
I don't sleep well at all.
(10:16):
Okay.
And you talk about fear.
I wake up every day in fear ofwhat disaster is writing around
the other corner.
So, I mean, there used to be abook out.
It was called something likedoing better but feeling worse.
Have you ever seen that?
You shouldn't find that book.
It's been a long time since Iread it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
But don't I don't you wish you had like an EpiPen
shot that you could stick, Imean, yeah, man.
And just keep going, keeppowering through.
We want that predator energy,right?
And so I I had talked to Abby,and I was like, hey, now here's
the deal.
Like, Mark and I want to knowthe secret sauces.
So this dialogue is about how dowe what you said at the end,
take these micro moments so thatwe can continue to sustain more
(10:59):
and do more.
Yeah.
That's what we want.
And that's what we're giving tothe audience today.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Right.
I take a micro moment a coupletimes, well, I don't know, maybe
10 or 15 times a day when I gooutside and have a cigarette.
I mean, seriously.
unknown (11:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (11:13):
Well, that's I think the irony.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_05 (11:16):
I actually generationally, well, I won't I
won't speak to the smoking, butbeing in nature, being away from
a device, I'm not a medicallytrained professional, so I want
to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
You're what?
I'm still on my device.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
He's smoking in Texas.
It's a stimulant.
I read somewhere once that whenyou smoke, if you like have a
cigarette and drink a cup ofcoffee, your IQ goes up like
seven points.
It just doesn't last.
Yeah.
You know?
That's only during the time asyou're smoking.
(11:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your IQ goes up.
And then it falls back.
But I also, yeah, speaking ofsponges, I also read something
once that um if a four-year-oldwatches SpongeBob, their IQ goes
down by seven.
Does it really?
And it lasts like three or fourhours after they watch it.
There's like an IQ hangover fromthat.
(12:14):
Anyway, I know that'sirrelevant.
But Abby, you were saying likeyour source.
If you have kids, don't let themwatch SpongeBob.
That's all I goes my bigsponsor.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
Yeah.
Just remote sponsor.
But hey, Abby, so you weretalking about like the nature
part.
Like, okay, so give us give ussome tips.
Like, yeah, what are we doing?
Like we want to be, we want toattack more, more often and and
harder and faster and longer andbetter.
And better.
Yeah.
All the time.
SPEAKER_05 (12:43):
Okay.
So I know that this is a gonnabe a tough audience because some
of the things that I'm gonnatell you might seem like you're
slowing down in a very smallmoment that then allows you to
accelerate after.
And so think about it exactly.
Exactly.
Think about it like a car.
(13:04):
You almost have to warm up theengine before you can
accelerate.
And like a car, if you just havethe gas pedal to the ground at
some point, it's not gonna keepspeeding up.
And so we have to sort of treatour body in the same way.
And one of the the simplestthings to be aware of is our
breath.
(13:26):
Um exactly.
And maybe you just each noticedwhen you took that breath that
you hadn't been breathing veryeffectively before that.
We tend to take really shallowbreaths during our day, and that
actually indicates to ournervous system that we're in
(13:46):
that fight, flight, threat mode.
SPEAKER_02 (13:49):
I just got something.
I just got something out ofthat.
When I'm not breathing likethat, like actually what's
happening is your nerve, like sowhat Abby's kind of talking
about, and correct me if I'mwrong, there is a central
subconscious nervous systemthat's happening with you.
Like we have our conscious side.
We're dropping, dropping,dropping.
And we're talking, talking,talking, talking, and we're not
breathing or breathing orbreathing, but our subconscious
(14:12):
central nervous system is goinglike, hey, I don't give a shit
what you think and what youthink you are, and how big and
awesome you you believe yourselfto be, and how many things you
want to merge.
Here's the real here's the goddang reality because I'm gonna
self-protect myself, and thatmeans I need to start shutting
down things because I'm tryingto protect my organs, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
Well, that's the workout, though, every day.
I mean, if you do the workout,you're not on your phone and you
gotta watch your breathing ifyou're lifting weights and stuff
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
That's part of it, but I think that what Abby's
saying, though, is that you needto do that throughout the day.
You need to do that continuebecause I'll tell you this like
I'll get on page pages and betalking, and I get dizzy while
I'm talking to people becauseI'm in the and I'm wondering,
like, what is the deal?
I think is it too muchadrenaline in my two?
No, it's because I'm notfreaking breathing.
(15:02):
Share.
I'm not breathing.
And I can promise you, everytime I get done with those
meetings, I immediately havethis 30-minute, 45-minute period
of where I'm like, man, I'm sotired now.
Like, what do I need to do?
I go get some coffee.
And no, I've when I drink coffeethat I get jacked up and then I
have another crash.
Yeah.
I just need to breathe.
SPEAKER_05 (15:21):
Exactly.
And, you know, your workout isactually still pushing
adrenaline.
It's still keeping you in thatsympathetic state.
Um, and you know, think about itlike, you know, you work out,
right?
Every muscle has a reciprocalinhibition muscle.
So when I'm flexing one muscle,I flex my bicep, my tricep
relaxes.
(15:41):
Our nervous system is the sameway.
When I'm using one part of it,the other part of it is
basically offline.
And we need it to be balanced inorder to think clearly.
And I'll say it's exactly tiedto your brain.
So the nervous system is youroperating system.
It goes from your brain throughyour spinal cord to every part
of your body and it's autonomic.
(16:03):
So it is, it's working withoutyou having to think about it,
but it controls your senses.
It's bringing in stimulus fromthe outside.
And based on the state thatyou're in, your brain is then
predicting and responding to allof that stimulus based on the
perceived state that you're in.
So if you're exhausted, ifyou're not sleeping well, if
(16:25):
you're stressed, if you'refinding energy through caffeine
and working out, your system isgoing to assume like we're in
high scare mode.
And so then your brain isn'tnecessarily using your logic
center to make a lot ofdecisions.
So you're reacting and you'rereacting from urgency and speed
(16:46):
versus how do I really thinkstrategically about this?
How do I be clear?
Um, and so that can work in ashort window.
And some of us love that speedand urgency, but it might not
mean that you're making the bestis business decisions or
certainly using the capacity ofyour mind to make those calls.
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
How do you make a business out of this, though,
Abby?
I mean, seriously.
That's a great question.
SPEAKER_05 (17:11):
Um, I do a lot of corporate workshops.
So that's a big part.
I actually work to get techteams before maybe a hackathon
into flow state so that they'retapping into the logic center of
their mind and then they're ableto code for an extended period
of time.
I talk a lot about nervoussystem performance with
executives, um, particularlybecause our system shows up in a
(17:35):
room before anything that wespeak.
So how you think about leading ateam, particularly through
disruption and change, becomes asignificant skill set for
leaders that are in this space.
Um, and then I also do a lot ofexecutive coaching that tends to
be a lot of pattern matching andmindset work tied into the
(17:56):
physiological performance.
Um, and then I also do retreats.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
That's uh the the coaching part uh uh sounds soft
to me.
How do you get uh entrepreneursto buy into that?
Okay, I mean, I've never paid acoach to do anything for me
other than like coach my kids insoccer or something.
SPEAKER_05 (18:16):
You know, I'll give you an example because I
actually I work with a lot offounders, folks that are
C-suite.
Um, I have a client that I'mworking with right now who is
very senior level at Amazon.
Now she runs a quant analystfirm.
She is always on.
She gets home at night, herpartner asks her what she should
(18:36):
eat for dinner, and she justbreaks down into tears.
Um, and so a lot of the workthat we're doing is again, how
do you sustain being always onand that level of performance?
And, you know, if you're anentrepreneur, if you're a
founder, you don't necessarilyalways get to compartmentalize
the work then into your personallife.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Absolutely.
They bleed together for sure.
Yeah.
So you're like a therapist in away, like a personal therapist.
SPEAKER_05 (19:03):
I would well, I'm not a trained therapist, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:06):
But I would I would kind of tie it to like a per a
therapist plus personal trainer.
Okay.
That helps me kind of thinkabout it.
Is that kind of accurate?
Like where you're because a lotof this is physical, like you're
talking about.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:21):
It's physical, and yet where it shows up is
mindset.
And I think a lot of times wedon't realize that the way our
body is reacting is creating asense of, you know, a certain
emotional or specific state inour mind.
And I think we've all beenthere.
I mean, I was, you know, a CEOthat maybe looked very
successful on paper.
(19:43):
And on the inside, I felt thisconstant pressure, urgency,
stress.
And, you know, as I was goingthrough major MA transitions,
having to do large-scalelayoffs, I started to think like
everyone else on the executiveteam is against me.
No one is helping me do thiswork.
It's me against the world.
(20:04):
You know, I had elbows out andit felt like, you know, they say
leadership is a lonely place,like I am isolated by myself and
it's only me.
That's actually a huge symptomof a very dysregulated system.
Um and so it's that kind of workof like, how do you know that
you are safe so that you can bemore collaborative, more
(20:28):
intentional on how you'releading others, working with an
executive team, you know, all ofthese things start to connect
into the state of your nervoussystem.
So it sounds soft because I, youknow, you you can't necessarily
see the data, except that thereis pretty powerful data now from
a health tech perspective thatstarts to show you what is
(20:49):
actually happening in thesystem.
Um, so I use a lot of heart ratevariability and other heart data
to show, like, hey, what'shappening in the system?
And then you can start totangibly see what that does from
a performance perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
I'm collecting all that on my Apple Watch.
That's good.
You'd be, yeah, that'd beperfect for Abby Day and a lot,
man.
Well, you know, Abby, though, Imean, I can already see though,
something about you that'sdifferent.
You smile a lot.
Yes.
Okay.
That is going to help yourrelationships with everybody,
even delivering bad news.
(21:25):
And if you smile in a way that'snot an evil smile or like I've
got some kind of a hidden agendasmile, it's genuine.
Yeah.
And it's got to help yourrelationships with other people.
Sorry, I just had to jump inwith that.
That's great.
I love it.
It's natural.
It's natural for you, and that'sgoing to help you influence
(21:46):
other people.
Not everybody's like that,obviously.
And it's it's it's like yoursuperpower or one of them,
maybe.
Um, so yeah, what you said aboutthe trainer though makes sense
to me.
I mean, I Understand thebenefits of my trainer.
They come at a certain timeevery day.
They they've got their app, theytrack your stuff, they show you
(22:07):
that you're improving in yourperformance, right?
So that's what you're trying todo on a different level, right,
Abby?
SPEAKER_05 (22:15):
And for the individual, but also, you know,
when you look at learningdevelopment and the types of
mindset or coaching programsthat exist organizationally,
there are major gaps in howwe've seen technology change
someone's physiological stateand how we also address career
development and leadershipimprovement from that vehicle as
(22:37):
well.
So it's pulling all of thisadvancement from a health space
into the training world as well.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
You know what I like about this?
Like I had no idea, you know, Iknew Abby, I knew that she'd
started this company, right?
And, you know, and her, youknow, just her uh, you know,
character, I thought it would begreat.
And I think the application'sgreat.
But something that I didn'tunderstand before she got on
here is the physiology typepractice here.
(23:05):
There there's a what I likeabout this discussion is there's
a universal truth that'shappening.
It's just the whole fight-flightmentality.
Sure, we understand that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, your central nervous, likeyour body does things based off
the start of humanity because ithad to do things, and then now
you're put into this fabricatedplastic concrete jungle that is
(23:28):
no nature to it.
You know, we talk about this.
Like there's the you know, thethe idea that you have nothing
to worry about and you can be aninfluencer and everything's
perfect, and I look perfect, andall this stuff.
Like we got all this bullcrapthat we're learning and
injusting on a daily basis.
Social media, you know,technology fears, all that
stuff.
But all none of it's intangible.
Like none of it's like real,like at the end of the day,
(23:50):
right?
And it's very comfortable.
We sleep in comfortable beds, wedrive cars everywhere.
We can take a flight to Seattleto Seattle right now, and it's
not that bad.
It's three hours, five hoursaway, you know, blah, blah,
blah, et cetera.
Everything's so comfortable.
But the reality is if yourewind, we talk you rewind back
(24:10):
80 years ago, shit was a lotdifferent.
Oh man, I'm telling you.
Like, you know, I mean, like, ifyou took a trip to Seattle, it
was literally a matter of lifeand death.
Like, that's a big decisionbecause gun trail.
Yeah, represent the organ trail.
Exactly, but the chances of youdying were almost higher than
you survived the trip.
Right.
But now we can get there in fivehours, nothing's okay, and we're
(24:32):
worried about what's, you know,is Starbucks and be open by a
land.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, that's a wholedifferent what didn't change was
your central nervous system.
The way that you're yes.
SPEAKER_05 (24:43):
That's what's crazy is um if you think about that
from an evolution perspective,you know, I get feedback on how
I performed in this call.
And my body reads it the same asI'm gonna get kicked out of the
tribe, and I may not havesomeone that's keeping me safe
or a place that's gonna help mefind food.
(25:04):
I'm literally reading the sortof human interaction and the
fear and concern of thatengagement the same way I would
as if I'm gonna get kicked out.
Our body doesn't know thedifference.
It reads an email notification,a Slack message, a notification
from LinkedIn the same way as athreat of getting chased by some
sort of beast.
(25:25):
And so we just have to remindourselves we're safe.
SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
I love that analogy because it's so true.
It is.
I'll go to my email.
Uh, this happens to me all thetime.
I go to my email, I seesomething.
So literally happened yesterday.
Someone on my team asked mesomething that was just like, to
them, they want to know ananswer.
To me, I'm like, why don't youalready know this answer?
Like six months ago.
(25:49):
Why am I having to be the onethat has to answer this?
And I now I have an hour and ahalf worth of work on my plate
that I did not expect, but it isabsolutely urgent and important
I do.
Yeah.
And I'm immediately going, I'm afailure for not leading this and
explain this six months agocorrectly.
Do I have the right team on myteam?
(26:10):
And my and now payrolls comingup, do they really?
I mean, like all these thingscome, right?
And and and it just makes thisthis stuff just start
triggering, triggering,triggering.
And and and and I'm like, why amI thinking this way?
You know, when the reality is,is I love Abby's example because
it comes to a tribe mentality.
Like if you rewound, if you runrewind it again, and somebody in
(26:34):
your tribe comes to you and theyscrewed up, it was a matter of
life and death.
And if I'm kicked out of thetribe, I'm either gonna die
alone or my family's gonna dieright in front of my eyes.
This shit was real back in theday.
Like, real, real, real.
Like if you did not go out andhunt well, Mark, and you're on
the hunting team and you can'tgo kill something, you're out,
(26:58):
bro.
You're gonna be farming oryou're gonna be doing something
else, you're gonna be makingtortillas or something instead.
Yep.
And that would put you in adifferent classification, which
would completely rob you of allyour masculinity until you prove
to me again you could go hunt.
And then eventually you getkicked out of the tribe and
you're living out in thefreaking mountains by yourself
because I don't want you in mytribe, bro.
(27:18):
Yeah, you can't do it.
Because you help her.
Yeah.
Wow.
SPEAKER_05 (27:22):
And and all of that is subconsciously happening in
your mind just from getting anemail.
But I I do want to callsomething out, Eric, because I
think it's interesting.
Our minds are so powerful.
Again, their job is to predictthreat to keep us safe and
alive.
And so you get an email and thestory that you tell yourself on,
(27:43):
you know, what you could havedone better, all of that sort of
like rumination and processing,that also is possibly a sign of
where your nervous system is,and then what the reaction that
your mind has to the situation.
A lot of the work that I do, youknow, it's a simple
psychological framework, butit's basically what's the
(28:03):
trigger, you know.
And this is okay, Seattle.
Traffic, terrible.
I'm always angry.
I have a little bit of roadrage.
I got that entrepreneurialspirit.
I'm like, get me there fast andefficiently.
Um, what do you're on the room?
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
What do you drive?
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
I have that Lexus UX.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Okay.
I just wanted to make sure itwasn't a Prius or something.
With that, with that attitude.
With that attitude.
Okay, that's good.
So I continue.
SPEAKER_04 (28:38):
I need some speed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
Yeah, you're an aggressive driver.
I got it.
Uh, you can tell a lot aboutpeople and how they're gonna be
by their driving.
Sorry to interrupt your story.
SPEAKER_05 (28:49):
You're on the road.
Seattle um has drivers that comefrom everywhere.
We've got folks from California.
Everyone has a different senseof urgency.
And so you get cut off.
I have a reaction to that.
And then maybe, you know, Ispend 30 minutes like angry,
angry.
I'm frustrated.
(29:09):
Why do people do this?
They're coming from all over, noone understands the system.
There's too many bridges,there's too much water, there's
too many mountains, it's justtoo beautiful.
You know, get your act together.
A lot of the work that I'm doingis like, okay, you have that
trigger, you have an immediatesubconscious reaction to it.
How do you then notice what yourmind did and change your
(29:30):
reaction to that reaction?
So I get an email, someone asksme a question, I'm like, they
shouldn't be asking me this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
And I could spend wow, I got scared, son knowing.
Okay.
That's the weapon Abby is like,are you shitting me?
You just asked me what?
The turtle.
SPEAKER_05 (29:54):
You know, I I could be spinning on like, should this
person be here?
Do we have the right TV place?
Um, you know, what did I miss intheir training?
There's so many different thingsthat spin on the shoulda,
woulda, couldas versus like, oh,interesting, that's a thought.
Why am I having a stressedresponse to that?
Like, what's showing up?
(30:14):
Why am I taking all of this onmyself?
Is there a different way that Ican react?
You know, this emotional statethat I'm having is a temporary
reaction and I want to controlthat.
So maybe I take a breath, maybeI go outside and have a smoke,
and then I come back and I say,okay, you know, this is how I'm
going to address it practically,clearly, simply.
(30:35):
And I don't spend the ruminationtime, the mental energy on the
woulda coulda shoulda's.
SPEAKER_02 (30:42):
Interesting.
I love it because I think numberone, you know, tying back to
entrepreneurism, right?
You don't want to lose your corecharacter as an entrepreneur.
You don't want to lose thatwhatever that makeup is that
entrepreneurs have.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Hard work, the hardware make a decision
quickly.
Yes, passion, drama, vision, allthose things.
SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
Solve the problem, move on quick.
Because you don't want to polishyourself into a corporate leader
type because you're gonna losethe value of it you're even
bringing to begin with.
That's not the reading good togreat's not the answer, folks,
right?
Amen to that.
Right?
But understanding, I thinkunderstanding that there is
indeed a subconsciousphysiological reaction that my
(31:27):
body has.
Yeah.
And getting better attuned tothat just happened, and that's
okay.
That's okay that that happenedbecause I am human and I'm
perfectly designed this way.
But but what is that trigger?
Like it's it's normal, but I canI can actually You can manage
that.
Yeah, I can get into drivers.
If could you imagine, bro, yeah,if you could control your
(31:50):
central nervous system, ifyou've got the power, the
Napoleon Hill, I can power tothink my own thoughts, think and
grow rich.
Excellent, power over time,power over my thoughts.
That's it.
That's it.
Being able to control thosereactions and then directing
them back with energy-fueledfreaking responses in action.
(32:13):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
You should be doing commercials for Abby.
I am doing Abby, though.
Back on back on how you'remaking this into a business.
I mean, how can you let's justsay that you personally, as a
coach and somebody who's beenvery successful at a high level
in the business world, okay,that immediately, in my mind,
(32:34):
separates you from somebodywho's had like 10 different
jobs, they never did anything,they took a coaching class,
another coach.
So you're you're in a differentleague.
But let's say you could helpyou, you work with somebody like
me and you help me, and I and Ipay you to do your thing, and I
maybe I uh bring you in toexpand your work with some of
(32:58):
the rest of my uh managementteam.
How do you grow that in abusiness beyond you?
I mean, how are you gonna makethat into a business that's
scalable for you and not justyou doing everything?
Because you're a business too.
So I want to talk about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting becauseright now it is a
services-driven business that isdependent on me.
But the joint of the tech spacethat we're in is what could be a
business that's already usingfour or five people is me, and
I'm heavily dependent on AI.
So how I think about automatedflows, how I've set up basically
(33:39):
the technology scale of the sortof core operational
infrastructure of the businessis using Claude.
It's building X-Mind.
I'm, you know, using all of thetechnology so that the level of
effort that I'm putting in ismore centered on going out,
doing the keynote, building therelationships and a lot of the
(34:02):
internal infrastructure, themarketing, the sales,
collateral, all of thosecomponents.
You know, I get the tailwind ofAI.
SPEAKER_02 (34:10):
Sounds like a danger zone.
Somebody that understands, thathas that experience and knows
the tech space and is buildingAI agentic flows to be the Abbey
brain that actually scales herbusiness to places that other
folks don't understand.
That's the power of AI, right?
SPEAKER_05 (34:28):
Well, and one of the fun things then in that is I'm
actually starting to work with alot of folks that want to do
this type of mission-driven,wellness-oriented work.
Um, you know, let's say ahealing practitioner of some
sort, but they definitely don'tknow how to use technology to
deliver that type of scale, tohave that efficiency in the back
(34:49):
end so that they can reach theircustomers in a compelling but
efficient way.
So a lot of the systems that I'mbuilding are something that I'm
starting to scale to others thatare doing this type of work.
Um, so you know, it's it's earlystage, but I think there's a lot
of yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (35:07):
You you said here you said something that's so key
that I think every entrepreneurneeds to know right now at the
time of AI.
Abby said, I'm building my flowand all the AI flows so that I
can focus on presentations andbuilding relationships.
There is a reality to it thatwhere there is so much room for
(35:28):
small businesses, in spite ofthe tech uh uh acceleration and
AI stuff, you can have the applike the uh the Numa app on your
phone, but that doesn't solvethe problem for every single
person.
And there's actually more Iwant.
But if you go speak with Abby orone of these other folks that
you've helped in this space, nowyou're getting Abby's attention
(35:49):
for relation and value, the thecustom personal service, the old
historic, genuine value of aservice-based business with the
power of tech behind you.
So you're actually, as a smallbusiness owner, even more
powerful than these LLMs andthese other apps because I'm
(36:09):
giving you my personal attentionof a service-based business.
It goes back to the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
It maximizes that so you're not using your time to do
the other stuff that youshouldn't have to be doing,
which is really the true valueof small business and
service-based business.
SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
So we're actually we're actually gonna we're all
scared about tech taking overeverything, but what's gonna end
up happening is thepersonalization, the curated,
the the the created, you know,hyper service that we all have
always appreciated in business.
Yeah.
And I love that.
SPEAKER_05 (36:41):
Well, and I'll say, because I I need to, it also
ties in back to the nervoussystem.
The way that we build reflectsthe state that we're in.
So if you're feeling stressedand this pressure and fear of
what's disrupting in this space,you're going to build something
that has a very short-termimpact, is sort of built on
(37:02):
pressure.
If you're building from aregulated state, the amount of
creativity that you can tapinto, the ability that you have
to look long-term to see howyour vision can positively
disrupt at scale in thatlong-term horizon, that's where
you'll build from a moreexpansive state.
And I think we all love, youknow, I saw what technology
(37:24):
disrupted positively from acustomer perspective with
Amazon.
You know, there were nostructures or, you know, I was
using an MVP team.
We were very scrappy, agile, andnimble, and we were just
creating and innovating.
And I'm sure you all appreciatethis.
As soon as you start to manage abusiness via risk, then you're
(37:47):
starting to build based on fear,which is why innovation and
agility don't exist inlarge-scale corporations and why
entrepreneurs are able todisrupt.
So that creativity comes fromregulation, and that's where we
have to build.
SPEAKER_03 (38:03):
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SPEAKER_01 (38:18):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's really it was a video I was
telling Eric I I had a guestspeaker in my classes the last
two days.
And he shows this video.
It's basically the evolution oforganizations to start out with
the idea person, and then theyget the barbarians, and then
they get the content experts.
And at some point, though, whenyou get the administrators in
(38:40):
there, it goes from playingoffense to defense.
And when you're on defense allthe time, then naturally the
next step is deterioration.
Okay?
And that's exactly what you justsaid right there.
It's like if our if we're ondefense all the time, we're not
playing offense.
And and that we're we're we'reworking from a risk point of
(39:03):
view.
SPEAKER_02 (39:04):
That's cool because even though as an entrepreneur,
if it's just me and my business,right, and I have no, I don't
have any staff or team rightnow, I can be very much on the
offense and seemingly moreoffense than you if you had a
bigger company.
Yeah.
But the reality is that there'sstill potentially physiological
defensive things that arecreeping up into my thinking.
(39:26):
Yeah.
And my job, if I could get thatuh be a hundred percent
offensive player, boy, I'm I'm amore of a force-to be bracket
bug.
You got it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Now, but at the same time, Abby, as a small business
owner and entrepreneur myself inin a lot of different, you know,
fields and all, um I feel likethe fear that I have is a big
part of my ability to overcomeobstacles.
Um I I I you know, I've said itbefore.
(39:55):
I wake up every day scared.
That keeps me doing the rightthing.
Okay, now there's fear thatkeeps me from doing anything,
but that's not the same as fearthat keeps me from doing that
keeps me doing what I need to doevery day.
How do you differentiate those?
SPEAKER_05 (40:14):
I used to think the same way.
I think I felt like this chip onmy shoulder, this sense of
always needing to do better, um,kind of a fear of what was
happening externally, and thenthis immense pressure on myself
was what allowed me to have suchsignificant performance.
(40:36):
And I think one of the biggestthings that I've realized is
one, um that type of fear putspressure on the team around you.
They feel it.
Um our systems can be they needsome.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
They're gonna smack off without it.
I'm I'm gonna be able to dothat.
SPEAKER_05 (40:56):
I think what I've seen in working with these suite
individuals is the fear alreadyexists in the organization.
And then they also feel thatthreat and fear from a leader.
The type of work that is thendone is reactive and based on
urgency.
(41:16):
And yet our greatest gift ashumans is the ability to be
creative and innovate.
So I suddenly have both mymentality and the team around me
working in a very speed-driven,but not necessarily the most
logical way.
And if I actually create, youknow, a lot of times in the
corporate world, right, we saypsychological safety.
(41:39):
This is physiological safety.
If I'm letting someone know,like fail fast, figure out
different ways to do stuff, pushhard against what we need to do
on the business operations, thesafety that they have and being
able to really go heavy afterthat creates an immense more
opportunity of creativity.
(41:59):
Um, and if you don't create thespaces for an organization to
really push in that way, thenyou may not unlock the top
potential.
And again, in a in a world ofAI, we've got efficiency in
spades.
What I need from my team is tobe creative and clear and really
thoughtful in the decisionsthey're making.
And if they're doing that fromfear, and I'm introducing that
(42:21):
first and foremost as myleadership style, I'm not gonna
get the creativity that I'minvesting in them to produce.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
So, Abby, like to go back, like what how do Mark and
I, and I share the same thing hedoes too.
Like, I think there's a lot, alot of um, I wouldn't even say
there's necessarily known fears,but there is a fear driver that
I do wake up with that does giveme this energy.
So, like, let's say that if wecould turn that into something
(42:49):
different, or maybe we call itsomething, maybe it's really
not, maybe we don't know it'snot really fear.
We're entitled in this fear.
I don't know.
But what would you say is you'reso you used to think that way.
Now, what do you think now?
Like, what would you say thatwaking up, what's this emotion?
Call it whatever it is thatwe're feeling, and how do we
(43:10):
better use that?
SPEAKER_05 (43:11):
I think naming it and knowing that it is an
emotional state.
Fear is still ultimately anemotion that your brain is
creating, your body has aresponse to, and you can create
and change.
So I can live in fear and sortof make excuses for it, or I can
name it and say, okay, but todayI'm actually going to be more
(43:34):
focused on what are all of thepossibilities of what could be
created and the expansive waythat I can do that and amplify
the opportunity and thepossibility versus that sense of
scared or fear.
And the simplest thing to do innaming it is being like, oh,
okay, I'm waking up, I feelstressed and afraid.
(43:56):
I'm going to take a really longexhale and tell my System, like
actually, I'm safe.
I'm a successful entrepreneur.
I'm a successful businessleader.
Look at what I'm able to do andcreate today.
Look at all of the opportunity.
And if I use that mental energyto think about what I can
deliver from a place ofcompassion and you know,
(44:19):
possibility versus fear andconstraint, the amount that
perhaps sort of can be createdin that space is outsized.
You know, sometimes we havethese like the best moments of
creation happen, you're taking awalk, you're in a situation
completely separate from thetraditional business
environment.
Well, why do those creativeideas pop up then?
(44:42):
It's because we're we're not infear.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
That's an interesting point.
It is.
And again, she this dialoguemakes me think back to thinking
real rich, Napoleon Hill, right?
This is you know, um when shewas talking about recognizing
the emotion, um but it's reallyuh reaffirming I am a successful
entrepreneur.
(45:05):
Like, because there is a lot ofpower in that.
I know there's there is adifference of when look, let's
let's say it this way.
Let's say that I have$100,000left in the business, and I've
got$150,000 in expenses comingup in two weeks.
Right?
There's two ways there the thereality exists.
(45:28):
I got one of those right now,right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
I know we're always in the bank and eight hundred
thousand in expense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:35):
Okay.
Yeah.
So okay, let's take thatsituation.
There is one of two, there's thereality is there, it's not
changing, right?
But are we afraid of that?
And so then therefore we startdriving because we're afraid
that that doom is about to come,or do we look at that and say,
hey, you know what?
You know, I'm a I am a reallygreat thinker, I'm a great
(45:56):
leader, I'm a great businessentrepreneur.
I've always figured out thingsbefore.
I've done this a hundred timesover, I'm gonna do it again.
Yeah, I'm gonna roll and I'mgonna go take, I'm gonna I'm
willing to point and direct theteam in the right direction and
help me solve problems.
And you've actually you've shownme a lot of ways to do that,
like on how you've likeempowered teams to you know to
(46:18):
do things that they didn't knowthat they could do.
So I think that as just theentrepreneur and leader, like
people look to us to as as a asa way to get them over or get
them past themselves, right?
If we can start our day likethat.
Well, we have to be get pastourselves.
No, that's it.
That's the real fight.
See, that's it.
But I think about exactly that,right?
SPEAKER_05 (46:39):
It's like you have so much capability and capacity,
and yet think about the mentalenergy that you are spending on
knowing over and over again,right?
Here's what I've got in thebank, here's what I know I need
to pay out.
I'm spending all of this energythinking about that.
But think about what your mindcould be spending that energy on
(47:01):
instead.
And I mean, I I don't mean tocall you out, Eric, but I
actually think one of the mostcompelling things that I've seen
you do is you're like, it is adrag for me to spend some of my
time and mental energy on thosetypes of structural things.
I'm gonna bring in a partnerwho's making sure that the T's
(47:23):
are crossed and the I's aredotted, and that mental load of
structure will be someone else'sresponsibility so that I can
spend time on customers, so thatI can create, so that I can
think about the big picture.
There's also a strategy of howto know, like, I'm gonna take
this mental task that isfear-based and draining, and I'm
gonna delegate it.
I'm gonna give it to a deputy sothat I can spend my capacity on
(47:47):
something that's much better forthe business.
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
That's a good point that relates to a lot of our
partnership discussions thatwe've had on the show.
In the essence, that's whatwe're in in the deepest sense,
that's what we're actuallydoing.
Yeah.
But I mean, on the surface, likeso when we articulate, hey, find
somebody that has strengths thatyou don't have, okay, that's
obvious.
But really, the the essence ofwhy is because of what you're
saying.
Like, I know, like, number one,I can't affirm myself out of it.
(48:11):
I'm not like, hey, I'm I'm sucha great mathematician and I
understand all the accountingprinciples and the HR principles
of the world.
Blah, blah.
I'm not, dude.
Like, I hate it, I'm impatientabout it.
But if I can spit more time onaffirming my own strengths that
I know I have, such as, youknow, like you're a great
seller.
You're yeah, I love people.
I love being around, I lovetalking to folks and like and I
(48:33):
can affirm myself out of that.
And while my partner may notwant to do that, yeah.
You know, and he no, I shit thatthat's what makes that great.
That's a good uh Abby.
I know we're we're almost out oftime.
Uh Mark always asks thisquestion how do people in you
know get a hold of you and doinquire more about opportunities
with you?
SPEAKER_05 (48:52):
Of course.
So my website ishouseharmon.com.
SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
It's h-o-us e-h-a-r-m-o-n dot com.
unknown (49:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (49:01):
Yes.
And you can easily find me onLinkedIn, Abby A B I Harmon.
I have all of the socials aswell.
Um, and you know, again, the thesimplest way to work with me is
coaching.
Um, I obviously come in and doworkshops.
And then if you're reallycurious about your individual
performance, I do four-dayimmersive retreats.
(49:22):
So those are very leadershiporiented, integrating a lot of
the skills around nervous systemresilience.
And there's a little bit ofescapism in those as well.
SPEAKER_02 (49:31):
Wow.
Okay, that's super cool.
Yeah, it is.
Well, this is good.
I enjoyed the conversation.
It is.
Mark, what are you what do youthink, man?
SPEAKER_01 (49:40):
You're uh I'm just thinking I just want to do some
breathing right now.
All right.
SPEAKER_05 (49:45):
I'm gonna come back and we'll do that live because
there's a neuroscience conceptcalled neurosception, where when
we breathe together, it actuallycreates a really incredible
nervous system state.
So I'll hold you to it, I'llwear my hat and we'll breathe
together.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
I I I have discovered that biofeedback
really works.
Like if you look at your heartrate and you say to yourself,
I'm gonna consciously calm downand and lower that, I can do
that.
And so I tell your discoverysame thing.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Yeah, very cool.
That would be pretty cool.
I'm wondering how that wouldturn out on like a video audio
show.
I don't know.
If you hook us up to heartmonitors and go, now breathe.
Okay.
But I think like we need tothink about that when you come
back on.
Like if you're just listening tothis on a drive, how do they
participate with us on this?
Yeah, think about that.
That'd be kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (50:36):
All right.
Well, Abby, it's been great tomeet you.
Really, I am uh I'm really happythat um I got to.
And I know Eric's always spokenhighly of you, and I can see why
you're successful what you'redoing and have been in the past.
Yeah, yep.
So great.
Thank you for being on our show.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_05 (50:52):
Thank you.
It's wonderful with you both.
SPEAKER_02 (50:54):
Yep, we'll have it, we'll have it again.
Thanks, Abby.
Bye, Abby.
Have a good day.
SPEAKER_00 (51:04):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
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(51:26):
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As soon as you start to manage a business via risk,
then you're starting to buildbased on fear.
Which is why innovation andagility don't exist in
large-scale corporations and whyentrepreneurs are able to
disrupt.
So that creativity comes fromregulation.
And that's where we have tobuild.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
You're in Seattle.
We're in Northwest Arkansas.
This is another episode of theBig Talk about small business.
And we're glad you're here withus.
Um, tell everybody a little bitabout yourself, please.
Um know more about Abby Harmon.
SPEAKER_05 (00:44):
Yes.
Um, so I haven't been in Seattlemy whole life.
I actually grew up in Virginia,um, very sort of traditionally
raised Jewish family.
So I focused a lot on education,financial stability, business.
Um, you know, I was driventowards STEM early as a as a
child.
(01:05):
Um, and uh I sort of followed uma career path from more of a
corporate environment.
I worked at the Targetheadquarters.
Uh, and then I actually movedout to Seattle, gosh, now about
15 years ago to work at Amazon,back when they were a little
tech startup.
And my path has sort ofprogressed from there, um,
(01:26):
increasingly getting intosmaller and smaller
organizations, kind of followingdisruption and maybe a sense of
art within.
Um, and then I started my ownbusiness now about 18 months
ago.
I never thought that I was goingto land on the founder path.
Um, but maybe working withfounders like Eric has inspired
(01:46):
and motivated me over the years.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
She's like a fan idiot can do it.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
Anybody can.
Eric is inspirational.
No, he really is.
I he is.
I come here every week just toget inspired by him.
Thank you, Mart.
That's it.
That's the whole purpose.
I come energized.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
I come here to get some wisdom from you.
Well, you came to the wrong.
You're like, you're you'rebasically you're my father.
Oh, dad.
Thanks, son.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
I'd be proud to have you as a son.
I'll be proud to have you as adad.
Thanks.
This is beautiful, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Isn't it?
SPEAKER_04 (02:21):
It is it is beautiful.
I'm like, I'll just be a uh stepcousin.
Let me in.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
Hey, look, we literally just created a family
on this show.
We did.
It's right here.
It's Harman's Wag and Howarton.
That's got a couple name to it.
Does it?
Harman's Wag and Howarton.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:39):
Could be good.
Or Harman Howerton.
Howerton Horman Zweig.
Yeah.
It all sounds good.
Whatever.
So anyway, Abby, so you keepworking for smaller and smaller
companies.
You started your business 18months ago.
What is the name of yourbusiness and what does it do?
SPEAKER_05 (02:56):
Yeah.
So the business is called HouseHarmon.
And it was born from a gap thatI saw in the technology world
that I was a part of for solong.
Um, you know, a space that is sodependent on expansive
innovation and creativity.
And yet, as it has matured, alot of transition into very
(03:19):
short-term thinking mentality, alot of fear of what is
disrupting the market.
And what I recognize is that alot of leaders didn't have the
skill set to actually navigatethat type of constant change,
the constant activation thatthey were under, and that that
gap was actually physiological.
So I completely pivoted,basically went back to school,
(03:41):
learned neuroscience, learned alot of Eastern medicine,
philosophy, meditation,breathwork, all trying to figure
out well, how do I link what isthe gap of physiological
performance back into what doesthe tech industry really need to
be able to find that innovationand clarity of thought again?
(04:02):
And so all of the work that I dois very much around the nervous
system and both educating andactually integrating an
understanding of the nervoussystem into day-to-day
performance.
SPEAKER_02 (04:14):
I want to give some credibility to Abby real quick.
I mean, we worked together atFlywheel, which was a great
organization.
That was the company that boughtWhite Spider back Saturday.
And that's how I met Abby.
Abby would been there.
You're what was your positionthere at Flywheel when when we
got acquired?
SPEAKER_05 (04:30):
You were Yeah, I was the managing director, so I had
taken over from the founders.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So she had a really heavy loadthere.
Then you what what year did youwork at Amazon?
What years were that?
SPEAKER_05 (04:42):
I was at Amazon in the early teens, so about 2010
to 2015.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
Yeah, so significant, I would say
significant credibility in techspace, right?
A lot in the ad space too,because I know that's what
Flywheel did.
Like, I mean, it was I mean,it's to our point, a lot of
technology disruption going onall the time.
I mean daily.
And um uh and and then I thinkthat you know, when when Nabby
(05:08):
talks about that, and I stillI'm in the space with Ad Fury
again, deep and heavy, like notex in the AI on top of this, but
she talks about this technologydisruption and the amount of
overload that goes on in youknow, plus the fear, you know.
I mean, it's it's it's actuallykind of real, right?
And my experience in AI, when Ijumped into the AI space in the
(05:33):
ad tech AI space with ad fury,it was A, I I jumped back in,
Abby, because I I wanted to makesure that I was engaged with the
times.
Really honestly didn'tnecessarily want to necessarily
be back in the space as a whole,but I was like, I can't you felt
like you needed it.
I had to get there because A, itneeded to be done right.
(05:55):
And I'm only, you know, asentrepreneurs do, we only trust
ourselves to do something right.
Yep.
Um, but man, I tell you, thereis a big difference in what's
going on today with AI, and Ithink it's impacting all
businesses, obviously.
But the velocity of change, Imean, is something I've never
ever ever experienced before.
(06:16):
Like every single day, multipletimes.
That's crazy.
Something else is about todisrupt.
And before he even got on theshow, I was telling Mark, like,
man, I'm exhausted at the end ofthe day.
Like, just from brain fatigue.
Like, I mean, and then itphysically exhausts me.
And it's happened to me twicethis week, and it's pretty
relevant to me right now.
(06:36):
Like, I've gotten off at likefive or six, and and I had plans
to go do X, Y, and Z.
I don't have the energy.
I don't have anything in my Idon't have anything left in me.
And then I can't sleep wellbecause now I have more energy
by the time it's time for bed.
Right?
And that's am I am I hitting ona little bit about what you
might help people do?
SPEAKER_05 (06:57):
Indeed.
Yes.
It's actually it's fascinatingbecause the evolution and change
of what's happened in the techindustry over, well, let's say
the last 20 years, you know,having a phone that you look at
within five minutes of wakingup, something that you're on for
sometimes eight hours a day, youknow, you look at a generation
(07:19):
that's using, yeah, all right,you know, if if if you're good,
um, that's like the generalstats across the entire
population.
But you look at folks that areunder 40, they're using YouTube,
TikTok to ingest all of theirmedia on the phone for far
longer.
And then at the same time, youhave you know 100 million
downloads of apps like Calm andBetter Help.
(07:42):
So folks know that they don'tfeel good, but they don't
necessarily know the why.
And then you look at the last 18months of what's happened with
AI, um, so much disruption,uncertainty about the future,
question marks on where my youknow career and financial
stability is going to come from.
That type of active, constant,urgent stress is completely at
(08:06):
odds with our human evolution.
If you look at our humanevolution, um, you know, we have
two parts of our system.
The parasympathetic came fromsponges.
So it's about 200 million yearsold.
And then our like fight, flight,our ability to be predators, to
chase, but also run away, youknow, that is also millions of
(08:27):
years old.
So you apply hell yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
We like the sponge part.
No, we like the predator part,right?
Wow, it sounds good to us.
SPEAKER_05 (08:37):
Predators are good, right?
It's our ability to keep pace.
We love that grind, that hustle,that agility.
But the system works bymobilizing and then it needs to
stabilize in order to mobilizeagain.
So if we're always on, itactually creates a sense of, you
know, I say dysregulation, butit basically creates dynamics
(09:00):
from a physical state, from amental state where we can't
sustain at that pace.
And so an understanding of thesystem and knowing like, well,
how do I take these little microbreaks throughout the day so
that I'm not exhausted, so thatmy brain can actually pace with
the change that's happening, sothat I can think clearly and
creatively.
Um, all of that is actuallystarting to realize, like, oh,
(09:22):
our evolution has not nearlypaced as fast as the technology
industry around us.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
You know, when I had a preemptive discussion with
Abby before she came on the showbecause I was like, Abby,
listen, Mark and I don't want toslow down.
Entrepreneurs, we don't want toslow down.
This is we I would actually loveto have a miracle shot that I
could stick in the side of myneck every day.
Yeah.
That makes me go 24-7.
I hate sleeping.
(09:48):
Sleeping pisses me off becauseit's such a waste of time.
Like, I wish I could just go andI don't want to eat.
SPEAKER_01 (09:55):
I don't hate taking an eating break.
I'm telling you, it you whatyou're saying is so familiar to
me.
I mean, like, I feel like I'mworking harder than I ever have,
and I'm almost 68.
Yeah.
I'm trying to do other thingslike workout four days a week.
I'm trying to change my diet.
I'm hardly eating a regular mealever.
Yeah.
I don't sleep well at all.
(10:16):
Okay.
And you talk about fear.
I wake up every day in fear ofwhat disaster is writing around
the other corner.
So, I mean, there used to be abook out.
It was called something likedoing better but feeling worse.
Have you ever seen that?
You shouldn't find that book.
It's been a long time since Iread it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
But don't I don't you wish you had like an EpiPen
shot that you could stick, Imean, yeah, man.
And just keep going, keeppowering through.
We want that predator energy,right?
And so I I had talked to Abby,and I was like, hey, now here's
the deal.
Like, Mark and I want to knowthe secret sauces.
So this dialogue is about how dowe what you said at the end,
take these micro moments so thatwe can continue to sustain more
(10:59):
and do more.
Yeah.
That's what we want.
And that's what we're giving tothe audience today.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Right.
I take a micro moment a coupletimes, well, I don't know, maybe
10 or 15 times a day when I gooutside and have a cigarette.
I mean, seriously.
unknown (11:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (11:13):
Well, that's I think the irony.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_05 (11:16):
I actually generationally, well, I won't I
won't speak to the smoking, butbeing in nature, being away from
a device, I'm not a medicallytrained professional, so I want
to.
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
You're what?
I'm still on my device.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
He's smoking in Texas.
It's a stimulant.
I read somewhere once that whenyou smoke, if you like have a
cigarette and drink a cup ofcoffee, your IQ goes up like
seven points.
It just doesn't last.
Yeah.
You know?
That's only during the time asyou're smoking.
(11:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your IQ goes up.
And then it falls back.
But I also, yeah, speaking ofsponges, I also read something
once that um if a four-year-oldwatches SpongeBob, their IQ goes
down by seven.
Does it really?
And it lasts like three or fourhours after they watch it.
There's like an IQ hangover fromthat.
(12:14):
Anyway, I know that'sirrelevant.
But Abby, you were saying likeyour source.
If you have kids, don't let themwatch SpongeBob.
That's all I goes my bigsponsor.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
Yeah.
Just remote sponsor.
But hey, Abby, so you weretalking about like the nature
part.
Like, okay, so give us give ussome tips.
Like, yeah, what are we doing?
Like we want to be, we want toattack more, more often and and
harder and faster and longer andbetter.
And better.
Yeah.
All the time.
SPEAKER_05 (12:43):
Okay.
So I know that this is a gonnabe a tough audience because some
of the things that I'm gonnatell you might seem like you're
slowing down in a very smallmoment that then allows you to
accelerate after.
And so think about it exactly.
Exactly.
Think about it like a car.
(13:04):
You almost have to warm up theengine before you can
accelerate.
And like a car, if you just havethe gas pedal to the ground at
some point, it's not gonna keepspeeding up.
And so we have to sort of treatour body in the same way.
And one of the the simplestthings to be aware of is our
breath.
(13:26):
Um exactly.
And maybe you just each noticedwhen you took that breath that
you hadn't been breathing veryeffectively before that.
We tend to take really shallowbreaths during our day, and that
actually indicates to ournervous system that we're in
(13:46):
that fight, flight, threat mode.
SPEAKER_02 (13:49):
I just got something.
I just got something out ofthat.
When I'm not breathing likethat, like actually what's
happening is your nerve, like sowhat Abby's kind of talking
about, and correct me if I'mwrong, there is a central
subconscious nervous systemthat's happening with you.
Like we have our conscious side.
We're dropping, dropping,dropping.
And we're talking, talking,talking, talking, and we're not
breathing or breathing orbreathing, but our subconscious
(14:12):
central nervous system is goinglike, hey, I don't give a shit
what you think and what youthink you are, and how big and
awesome you you believe yourselfto be, and how many things you
want to merge.
Here's the real here's the goddang reality because I'm gonna
self-protect myself, and thatmeans I need to start shutting
down things because I'm tryingto protect my organs, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
Well, that's the workout, though, every day.
I mean, if you do the workout,you're not on your phone and you
gotta watch your breathing ifyou're lifting weights and stuff
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
That's part of it, but I think that what Abby's
saying, though, is that you needto do that throughout the day.
You need to do that continuebecause I'll tell you this like
I'll get on page pages and betalking, and I get dizzy while
I'm talking to people becauseI'm in the and I'm wondering,
like, what is the deal?
I think is it too muchadrenaline in my two?
No, it's because I'm notfreaking breathing.
(15:02):
Share.
I'm not breathing.
And I can promise you, everytime I get done with those
meetings, I immediately havethis 30-minute, 45-minute period
of where I'm like, man, I'm sotired now.
Like, what do I need to do?
I go get some coffee.
And no, I've when I drink coffeethat I get jacked up and then I
have another crash.
Yeah.
I just need to breathe.
SPEAKER_05 (15:21):
Exactly.
And, you know, your workout isactually still pushing
adrenaline.
It's still keeping you in thatsympathetic state.
Um, and you know, think about itlike, you know, you work out,
right?
Every muscle has a reciprocalinhibition muscle.
So when I'm flexing one muscle,I flex my bicep, my tricep
relaxes.
(15:41):
Our nervous system is the sameway.
When I'm using one part of it,the other part of it is
basically offline.
And we need it to be balanced inorder to think clearly.
And I'll say it's exactly tiedto your brain.
So the nervous system is youroperating system.
It goes from your brain throughyour spinal cord to every part
of your body and it's autonomic.
(16:03):
So it is, it's working withoutyou having to think about it,
but it controls your senses.
It's bringing in stimulus fromthe outside.
And based on the state thatyou're in, your brain is then
predicting and responding to allof that stimulus based on the
perceived state that you're in.
So if you're exhausted, ifyou're not sleeping well, if
(16:25):
you're stressed, if you'refinding energy through caffeine
and working out, your system isgoing to assume like we're in
high scare mode.
And so then your brain isn'tnecessarily using your logic
center to make a lot ofdecisions.
So you're reacting and you'rereacting from urgency and speed
(16:46):
versus how do I really thinkstrategically about this?
How do I be clear?
Um, and so that can work in ashort window.
And some of us love that speedand urgency, but it might not
mean that you're making the bestis business decisions or
certainly using the capacity ofyour mind to make those calls.
SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
How do you make a business out of this, though,
Abby?
I mean, seriously.
That's a great question.
SPEAKER_05 (17:11):
Um, I do a lot of corporate workshops.
So that's a big part.
I actually work to get techteams before maybe a hackathon
into flow state so that they'retapping into the logic center of
their mind and then they're ableto code for an extended period
of time.
I talk a lot about nervoussystem performance with
executives, um, particularlybecause our system shows up in a
(17:35):
room before anything that wespeak.
So how you think about leading ateam, particularly through
disruption and change, becomes asignificant skill set for
leaders that are in this space.
Um, and then I also do a lot ofexecutive coaching that tends to
be a lot of pattern matching andmindset work tied into the
(17:56):
physiological performance.
Um, and then I also do retreats.
SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
That's uh the the coaching part uh uh sounds soft
to me.
How do you get uh entrepreneursto buy into that?
Okay, I mean, I've never paid acoach to do anything for me
other than like coach my kids insoccer or something.
SPEAKER_05 (18:16):
You know, I'll give you an example because I
actually I work with a lot offounders, folks that are
C-suite.
Um, I have a client that I'mworking with right now who is
very senior level at Amazon.
Now she runs a quant analystfirm.
She is always on.
She gets home at night, herpartner asks her what she should
(18:36):
eat for dinner, and she justbreaks down into tears.
Um, and so a lot of the workthat we're doing is again, how
do you sustain being always onand that level of performance?
And, you know, if you're anentrepreneur, if you're a
founder, you don't necessarilyalways get to compartmentalize
the work then into your personallife.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Absolutely.
They bleed together for sure.
Yeah.
So you're like a therapist in away, like a personal therapist.
SPEAKER_05 (19:03):
I would well, I'm not a trained therapist, right?
SPEAKER_02 (19:06):
But I would I would kind of tie it to like a per a
therapist plus personal trainer.
Okay.
That helps me kind of thinkabout it.
Is that kind of accurate?
Like where you're because a lotof this is physical, like you're
talking about.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (19:21):
It's physical, and yet where it shows up is
mindset.
And I think a lot of times wedon't realize that the way our
body is reacting is creating asense of, you know, a certain
emotional or specific state inour mind.
And I think we've all beenthere.
I mean, I was, you know, a CEOthat maybe looked very
successful on paper.
(19:43):
And on the inside, I felt thisconstant pressure, urgency,
stress.
And, you know, as I was goingthrough major MA transitions,
having to do large-scalelayoffs, I started to think like
everyone else on the executiveteam is against me.
No one is helping me do thiswork.
It's me against the world.
(20:04):
You know, I had elbows out andit felt like, you know, they say
leadership is a lonely place,like I am isolated by myself and
it's only me.
That's actually a huge symptomof a very dysregulated system.
Um and so it's that kind of workof like, how do you know that
you are safe so that you can bemore collaborative, more
(20:28):
intentional on how you'releading others, working with an
executive team, you know, all ofthese things start to connect
into the state of your nervoussystem.
So it sounds soft because I, youknow, you you can't necessarily
see the data, except that thereis pretty powerful data now from
a health tech perspective thatstarts to show you what is
(20:49):
actually happening in thesystem.
Um, so I use a lot of heart ratevariability and other heart data
to show, like, hey, what'shappening in the system?
And then you can start totangibly see what that does from
a performance perspective.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
I'm collecting all that on my Apple Watch.
That's good.
You'd be, yeah, that'd beperfect for Abby Day and a lot,
man.
Well, you know, Abby, though, Imean, I can already see though,
something about you that'sdifferent.
You smile a lot.
Yes.
Okay.
That is going to help yourrelationships with everybody,
even delivering bad news.
(21:25):
And if you smile in a way that'snot an evil smile or like I've
got some kind of a hidden agendasmile, it's genuine.
Yeah.
And it's got to help yourrelationships with other people.
Sorry, I just had to jump inwith that.
That's great.
I love it.
It's natural.
It's natural for you, and that'sgoing to help you influence
(21:46):
other people.
Not everybody's like that,obviously.
And it's it's it's like yoursuperpower or one of them,
maybe.
Um, so yeah, what you said aboutthe trainer though makes sense
to me.
I mean, I Understand thebenefits of my trainer.
They come at a certain timeevery day.
They they've got their app, theytrack your stuff, they show you
(22:07):
that you're improving in yourperformance, right?
So that's what you're trying todo on a different level, right,
Abby?
SPEAKER_05 (22:15):
And for the individual, but also, you know,
when you look at learningdevelopment and the types of
mindset or coaching programsthat exist organizationally,
there are major gaps in howwe've seen technology change
someone's physiological stateand how we also address career
development and leadershipimprovement from that vehicle as
(22:37):
well.
So it's pulling all of thisadvancement from a health space
into the training world as well.
SPEAKER_02 (22:44):
You know what I like about this?
Like I had no idea, you know, Iknew Abby, I knew that she'd
started this company, right?
And, you know, and her, youknow, just her uh, you know,
character, I thought it would begreat.
And I think the application'sgreat.
But something that I didn'tunderstand before she got on
here is the physiology typepractice here.
(23:05):
There there's a what I likeabout this discussion is there's
a universal truth that'shappening.
It's just the whole fight-flightmentality.
Sure, we understand that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, your central nervous, likeyour body does things based off
the start of humanity because ithad to do things, and then now
you're put into this fabricatedplastic concrete jungle that is
(23:28):
no nature to it.
You know, we talk about this.
Like there's the you know, thethe idea that you have nothing
to worry about and you can be aninfluencer and everything's
perfect, and I look perfect, andall this stuff.
Like we got all this bullcrapthat we're learning and
injusting on a daily basis.
Social media, you know,technology fears, all that
stuff.
But all none of it's intangible.
Like none of it's like real,like at the end of the day,
(23:50):
right?
And it's very comfortable.
We sleep in comfortable beds, wedrive cars everywhere.
We can take a flight to Seattleto Seattle right now, and it's
not that bad.
It's three hours, five hoursaway, you know, blah, blah,
blah, et cetera.
Everything's so comfortable.
But the reality is if yourewind, we talk you rewind back
(24:10):
80 years ago, shit was a lotdifferent.
Oh man, I'm telling you.
Like, you know, I mean, like, ifyou took a trip to Seattle, it
was literally a matter of lifeand death.
Like, that's a big decisionbecause gun trail.
Yeah, represent the organ trail.
Exactly, but the chances of youdying were almost higher than
you survived the trip.
Right.
But now we can get there in fivehours, nothing's okay, and we're
(24:32):
worried about what's, you know,is Starbucks and be open by a
land.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, that's a wholedifferent what didn't change was
your central nervous system.
The way that you're yes.
SPEAKER_05 (24:43):
That's what's crazy is um if you think about that
from an evolution perspective,you know, I get feedback on how
I performed in this call.
And my body reads it the same asI'm gonna get kicked out of the
tribe, and I may not havesomeone that's keeping me safe
or a place that's gonna help mefind food.
(25:04):
I'm literally reading the sortof human interaction and the
fear and concern of thatengagement the same way I would
as if I'm gonna get kicked out.
Our body doesn't know thedifference.
It reads an email notification,a Slack message, a notification
from LinkedIn the same way as athreat of getting chased by some
sort of beast.
(25:25):
And so we just have to remindourselves we're safe.
SPEAKER_02 (25:28):
I love that analogy because it's so true.
It is.
I'll go to my email.
Uh, this happens to me all thetime.
I go to my email, I seesomething.
So literally happened yesterday.
Someone on my team asked mesomething that was just like, to
them, they want to know ananswer.
To me, I'm like, why don't youalready know this answer?
Like six months ago.
(25:49):
Why am I having to be the onethat has to answer this?
And I now I have an hour and ahalf worth of work on my plate
that I did not expect, but it isabsolutely urgent and important
I do.
Yeah.
And I'm immediately going, I'm afailure for not leading this and
explain this six months agocorrectly.
Do I have the right team on myteam?
(26:10):
And my and now payrolls comingup, do they really?
I mean, like all these thingscome, right?
And and and it just makes thisthis stuff just start
triggering, triggering,triggering.
And and and and I'm like, why amI thinking this way?
You know, when the reality is,is I love Abby's example because
it comes to a tribe mentality.
Like if you rewound, if you runrewind it again, and somebody in
(26:34):
your tribe comes to you and theyscrewed up, it was a matter of
life and death.
And if I'm kicked out of thetribe, I'm either gonna die
alone or my family's gonna dieright in front of my eyes.
This shit was real back in theday.
Like, real, real, real.
Like if you did not go out andhunt well, Mark, and you're on
the hunting team and you can'tgo kill something, you're out,
(26:58):
bro.
You're gonna be farming oryou're gonna be doing something
else, you're gonna be makingtortillas or something instead.
Yep.
And that would put you in adifferent classification, which
would completely rob you of allyour masculinity until you prove
to me again you could go hunt.
And then eventually you getkicked out of the tribe and
you're living out in thefreaking mountains by yourself
because I don't want you in mytribe, bro.
(27:18):
Yeah, you can't do it.
Because you help her.
Yeah.
Wow.
SPEAKER_05 (27:22):
And and all of that is subconsciously happening in
your mind just from getting anemail.
But I I do want to callsomething out, Eric, because I
think it's interesting.
Our minds are so powerful.
Again, their job is to predictthreat to keep us safe and
alive.
And so you get an email and thestory that you tell yourself on,
(27:43):
you know, what you could havedone better, all of that sort of
like rumination and processing,that also is possibly a sign of
where your nervous system is,and then what the reaction that
your mind has to the situation.
A lot of the work that I do, youknow, it's a simple
psychological framework, butit's basically what's the
(28:03):
trigger, you know.
And this is okay, Seattle.
Traffic, terrible.
I'm always angry.
I have a little bit of roadrage.
I got that entrepreneurialspirit.
I'm like, get me there fast andefficiently.
Um, what do you're on the room?
SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
What do you drive?
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (28:20):
I have that Lexus UX.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Okay.
I just wanted to make sure itwasn't a Prius or something.
With that, with that attitude.
With that attitude.
Okay, that's good.
So I continue.
SPEAKER_04 (28:38):
I need some speed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
Yeah, you're an aggressive driver.
I got it.
Uh, you can tell a lot aboutpeople and how they're gonna be
by their driving.
Sorry to interrupt your story.
SPEAKER_05 (28:49):
You're on the road.
Seattle um has drivers that comefrom everywhere.
We've got folks from California.
Everyone has a different senseof urgency.
And so you get cut off.
I have a reaction to that.
And then maybe, you know, Ispend 30 minutes like angry,
angry.
I'm frustrated.
(29:09):
Why do people do this?
They're coming from all over, noone understands the system.
There's too many bridges,there's too much water, there's
too many mountains, it's justtoo beautiful.
You know, get your act together.
A lot of the work that I'm doingis like, okay, you have that
trigger, you have an immediatesubconscious reaction to it.
How do you then notice what yourmind did and change your
(29:30):
reaction to that reaction?
So I get an email, someone asksme a question, I'm like, they
shouldn't be asking me this.
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
And I could spend wow, I got scared, son knowing.
Okay.
That's the weapon Abby is like,are you shitting me?
You just asked me what?
The turtle.
SPEAKER_05 (29:54):
You know, I I could be spinning on like, should this
person be here?
Do we have the right TV place?
Um, you know, what did I miss intheir training?
There's so many different thingsthat spin on the shoulda,
woulda, couldas versus like, oh,interesting, that's a thought.
Why am I having a stressedresponse to that?
Like, what's showing up?
(30:14):
Why am I taking all of this onmyself?
Is there a different way that Ican react?
You know, this emotional statethat I'm having is a temporary
reaction and I want to controlthat.
So maybe I take a breath, maybeI go outside and have a smoke,
and then I come back and I say,okay, you know, this is how I'm
going to address it practically,clearly, simply.
(30:35):
And I don't spend the ruminationtime, the mental energy on the
woulda coulda shoulda's.
SPEAKER_02 (30:42):
Interesting.
I love it because I think numberone, you know, tying back to
entrepreneurism, right?
You don't want to lose your corecharacter as an entrepreneur.
You don't want to lose thatwhatever that makeup is that
entrepreneurs have.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Hard work, the hardware make a decision
quickly.
Yes, passion, drama, vision, allthose things.
SPEAKER_02 (31:03):
Solve the problem, move on quick.
Because you don't want to polishyourself into a corporate leader
type because you're gonna losethe value of it you're even
bringing to begin with.
That's not the reading good togreat's not the answer, folks,
right?
Amen to that.
Right?
But understanding, I thinkunderstanding that there is
indeed a subconsciousphysiological reaction that my
(31:27):
body has.
Yeah.
And getting better attuned tothat just happened, and that's
okay.
That's okay that that happenedbecause I am human and I'm
perfectly designed this way.
But but what is that trigger?
Like it's it's normal, but I canI can actually You can manage
that.
Yeah, I can get into drivers.
If could you imagine, bro, yeah,if you could control your
(31:50):
central nervous system, ifyou've got the power, the
Napoleon Hill, I can power tothink my own thoughts, think and
grow rich.
Excellent, power over time,power over my thoughts.
That's it.
That's it.
Being able to control thosereactions and then directing
them back with energy-fueledfreaking responses in action.
(32:13):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
You should be doing commercials for Abby.
I am doing Abby, though.
Back on back on how you'remaking this into a business.
I mean, how can you let's justsay that you personally, as a
coach and somebody who's beenvery successful at a high level
in the business world, okay,that immediately, in my mind,
(32:34):
separates you from somebodywho's had like 10 different
jobs, they never did anything,they took a coaching class,
another coach.
So you're you're in a differentleague.
But let's say you could helpyou, you work with somebody like
me and you help me, and I and Ipay you to do your thing, and I
maybe I uh bring you in toexpand your work with some of
(32:58):
the rest of my uh managementteam.
How do you grow that in abusiness beyond you?
I mean, how are you gonna makethat into a business that's
scalable for you and not justyou doing everything?
Because you're a business too.
So I want to talk about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
Yeah.
I mean, it's interesting becauseright now it is a
services-driven business that isdependent on me.
But the joint of the tech spacethat we're in is what could be a
business that's already usingfour or five people is me, and
I'm heavily dependent on AI.
So how I think about automatedflows, how I've set up basically
(33:39):
the technology scale of the sortof core operational
infrastructure of the businessis using Claude.
It's building X-Mind.
I'm, you know, using all of thetechnology so that the level of
effort that I'm putting in ismore centered on going out,
doing the keynote, building therelationships and a lot of the
(34:02):
internal infrastructure, themarketing, the sales,
collateral, all of thosecomponents.
You know, I get the tailwind ofAI.
SPEAKER_02 (34:10):
Sounds like a danger zone.
Somebody that understands, thathas that experience and knows
the tech space and is buildingAI agentic flows to be the Abbey
brain that actually scales herbusiness to places that other
folks don't understand.
That's the power of AI, right?
SPEAKER_05 (34:28):
Well, and one of the fun things then in that is I'm
actually starting to work with alot of folks that want to do
this type of mission-driven,wellness-oriented work.
Um, you know, let's say ahealing practitioner of some
sort, but they definitely don'tknow how to use technology to
deliver that type of scale, tohave that efficiency in the back
(34:49):
end so that they can reach theircustomers in a compelling but
efficient way.
So a lot of the systems that I'mbuilding are something that I'm
starting to scale to others thatare doing this type of work.
Um, so you know, it's it's earlystage, but I think there's a lot
of yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (35:07):
You you said here you said something that's so key
that I think every entrepreneurneeds to know right now at the
time of AI.
Abby said, I'm building my flowand all the AI flows so that I
can focus on presentations andbuilding relationships.
There is a reality to it thatwhere there is so much room for
(35:28):
small businesses, in spite ofthe tech uh uh acceleration and
AI stuff, you can have the applike the uh the Numa app on your
phone, but that doesn't solvethe problem for every single
person.
And there's actually more Iwant.
But if you go speak with Abby orone of these other folks that
you've helped in this space, nowyou're getting Abby's attention
(35:49):
for relation and value, the thecustom personal service, the old
historic, genuine value of aservice-based business with the
power of tech behind you.
So you're actually, as a smallbusiness owner, even more
powerful than these LLMs andthese other apps because I'm
(36:09):
giving you my personal attentionof a service-based business.
It goes back to the same thing.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
It maximizes that so you're not using your time to do
the other stuff that youshouldn't have to be doing,
which is really the true valueof small business and
service-based business.
SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
So we're actually we're actually gonna we're all
scared about tech taking overeverything, but what's gonna end
up happening is thepersonalization, the curated,
the the the created, you know,hyper service that we all have
always appreciated in business.
Yeah.
And I love that.
SPEAKER_05 (36:41):
Well, and I'll say, because I I need to, it also
ties in back to the nervoussystem.
The way that we build reflectsthe state that we're in.
So if you're feeling stressedand this pressure and fear of
what's disrupting in this space,you're going to build something
that has a very short-termimpact, is sort of built on
(37:02):
pressure.
If you're building from aregulated state, the amount of
creativity that you can tapinto, the ability that you have
to look long-term to see howyour vision can positively
disrupt at scale in thatlong-term horizon, that's where
you'll build from a moreexpansive state.
And I think we all love, youknow, I saw what technology
(37:24):
disrupted positively from acustomer perspective with
Amazon.
You know, there were nostructures or, you know, I was
using an MVP team.
We were very scrappy, agile, andnimble, and we were just
creating and innovating.
And I'm sure you all appreciatethis.
As soon as you start to manage abusiness via risk, then you're
(37:47):
starting to build based on fear,which is why innovation and
agility don't exist inlarge-scale corporations and why
entrepreneurs are able todisrupt.
So that creativity comes fromregulation, and that's where we
have to build.
SPEAKER_03 (38:03):
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SPEAKER_01 (38:18):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's really it was a video I was
telling Eric I I had a guestspeaker in my classes the last
two days.
And he shows this video.
It's basically the evolution oforganizations to start out with
the idea person, and then theyget the barbarians, and then
they get the content experts.
And at some point, though, whenyou get the administrators in
(38:40):
there, it goes from playingoffense to defense.
And when you're on defense allthe time, then naturally the
next step is deterioration.
Okay?
And that's exactly what you justsaid right there.
It's like if our if we're ondefense all the time, we're not
playing offense.
And and that we're we're we'reworking from a risk point of
(39:03):
view.
SPEAKER_02 (39:04):
That's cool because even though as an entrepreneur,
if it's just me and my business,right, and I have no, I don't
have any staff or team rightnow, I can be very much on the
offense and seemingly moreoffense than you if you had a
bigger company.
Yeah.
But the reality is that there'sstill potentially physiological
defensive things that arecreeping up into my thinking.
(39:26):
Yeah.
And my job, if I could get thatuh be a hundred percent
offensive player, boy, I'm I'm amore of a force-to be bracket
bug.
You got it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Now, but at the same time, Abby, as a small business
owner and entrepreneur myself inin a lot of different, you know,
fields and all, um I feel likethe fear that I have is a big
part of my ability to overcomeobstacles.
Um I I I you know, I've said itbefore.
(39:55):
I wake up every day scared.
That keeps me doing the rightthing.
Okay, now there's fear thatkeeps me from doing anything,
but that's not the same as fearthat keeps me from doing that
keeps me doing what I need to doevery day.
How do you differentiate those?
SPEAKER_05 (40:14):
I used to think the same way.
I think I felt like this chip onmy shoulder, this sense of
always needing to do better, um,kind of a fear of what was
happening externally, and thenthis immense pressure on myself
was what allowed me to have suchsignificant performance.
(40:36):
And I think one of the biggestthings that I've realized is
one, um that type of fear putspressure on the team around you.
They feel it.
Um our systems can be they needsome.
SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
They're gonna smack off without it.
I'm I'm gonna be able to dothat.
SPEAKER_05 (40:56):
I think what I've seen in working with these suite
individuals is the fear alreadyexists in the organization.
And then they also feel thatthreat and fear from a leader.
The type of work that is thendone is reactive and based on
urgency.
(41:16):
And yet our greatest gift ashumans is the ability to be
creative and innovate.
So I suddenly have both mymentality and the team around me
working in a very speed-driven,but not necessarily the most
logical way.
And if I actually create, youknow, a lot of times in the
corporate world, right, we saypsychological safety.
(41:39):
This is physiological safety.
If I'm letting someone know,like fail fast, figure out
different ways to do stuff, pushhard against what we need to do
on the business operations, thesafety that they have and being
able to really go heavy afterthat creates an immense more
opportunity of creativity.
(41:59):
Um, and if you don't create thespaces for an organization to
really push in that way, thenyou may not unlock the top
potential.
And again, in a in a world ofAI, we've got efficiency in
spades.
What I need from my team is tobe creative and clear and really
thoughtful in the decisionsthey're making.
And if they're doing that fromfear, and I'm introducing that
(42:21):
first and foremost as myleadership style, I'm not gonna
get the creativity that I'minvesting in them to produce.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
So, Abby, like to go back, like what how do Mark and
I, and I share the same thing hedoes too.
Like, I think there's a lot, alot of um, I wouldn't even say
there's necessarily known fears,but there is a fear driver that
I do wake up with that does giveme this energy.
So, like, let's say that if wecould turn that into something
(42:49):
different, or maybe we call itsomething, maybe it's really
not, maybe we don't know it'snot really fear.
We're entitled in this fear.
I don't know.
But what would you say is you'reso you used to think that way.
Now, what do you think now?
Like, what would you say thatwaking up, what's this emotion?
Call it whatever it is thatwe're feeling, and how do we
(43:10):
better use that?
SPEAKER_05 (43:11):
I think naming it and knowing that it is an
emotional state.
Fear is still ultimately anemotion that your brain is
creating, your body has aresponse to, and you can create
and change.
So I can live in fear and sortof make excuses for it, or I can
name it and say, okay, but todayI'm actually going to be more
(43:34):
focused on what are all of thepossibilities of what could be
created and the expansive waythat I can do that and amplify
the opportunity and thepossibility versus that sense of
scared or fear.
And the simplest thing to do innaming it is being like, oh,
okay, I'm waking up, I feelstressed and afraid.
(43:56):
I'm going to take a really longexhale and tell my System, like
actually, I'm safe.
I'm a successful entrepreneur.
I'm a successful businessleader.
Look at what I'm able to do andcreate today.
Look at all of the opportunity.
And if I use that mental energyto think about what I can
deliver from a place ofcompassion and you know,
(44:19):
possibility versus fear andconstraint, the amount that
perhaps sort of can be createdin that space is outsized.
You know, sometimes we havethese like the best moments of
creation happen, you're taking awalk, you're in a situation
completely separate from thetraditional business
environment.
Well, why do those creativeideas pop up then?
(44:42):
It's because we're we're not infear.
SPEAKER_02 (44:45):
That's an interesting point.
It is.
And again, she this dialoguemakes me think back to thinking
real rich, Napoleon Hill, right?
This is you know, um when shewas talking about recognizing
the emotion, um but it's reallyuh reaffirming I am a successful
entrepreneur.
(45:05):
Like, because there is a lot ofpower in that.
I know there's there is adifference of when look, let's
let's say it this way.
Let's say that I have$100,000left in the business, and I've
got$150,000 in expenses comingup in two weeks.
Right?
There's two ways there the thereality exists.
(45:28):
I got one of those right now,right?
SPEAKER_01 (45:30):
I know we're always in the bank and eight hundred
thousand in expense.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:35):
Okay.
Yeah.
So okay, let's take thatsituation.
There is one of two, there's thereality is there, it's not
changing, right?
But are we afraid of that?
And so then therefore we startdriving because we're afraid
that that doom is about to come,or do we look at that and say,
hey, you know what?
You know, I'm a I am a reallygreat thinker, I'm a great
(45:56):
leader, I'm a great businessentrepreneur.
I've always figured out thingsbefore.
I've done this a hundred timesover, I'm gonna do it again.
Yeah, I'm gonna roll and I'mgonna go take, I'm gonna I'm
willing to point and direct theteam in the right direction and
help me solve problems.
And you've actually you've shownme a lot of ways to do that,
like on how you've likeempowered teams to you know to
(46:18):
do things that they didn't knowthat they could do.
So I think that as just theentrepreneur and leader, like
people look to us to as as a asa way to get them over or get
them past themselves, right?
If we can start our day likethat.
Well, we have to be get pastourselves.
No, that's it.
That's the real fight.
See, that's it.
But I think about exactly that,right?
SPEAKER_05 (46:39):
It's like you have so much capability and capacity,
and yet think about the mentalenergy that you are spending on
knowing over and over again,right?
Here's what I've got in thebank, here's what I know I need
to pay out.
I'm spending all of this energythinking about that.
But think about what your mindcould be spending that energy on
(47:01):
instead.
And I mean, I I don't mean tocall you out, Eric, but I
actually think one of the mostcompelling things that I've seen
you do is you're like, it is adrag for me to spend some of my
time and mental energy on thosetypes of structural things.
I'm gonna bring in a partnerwho's making sure that the T's
(47:23):
are crossed and the I's aredotted, and that mental load of
structure will be someone else'sresponsibility so that I can
spend time on customers, so thatI can create, so that I can
think about the big picture.
There's also a strategy of howto know, like, I'm gonna take
this mental task that isfear-based and draining, and I'm
gonna delegate it.
I'm gonna give it to a deputy sothat I can spend my capacity on
(47:47):
something that's much better forthe business.
SPEAKER_02 (47:49):
That's a good point that relates to a lot of our
partnership discussions thatwe've had on the show.
In the essence, that's whatwe're in in the deepest sense,
that's what we're actuallydoing.
Yeah.
But I mean, on the surface, likeso when we articulate, hey, find
somebody that has strengths thatyou don't have, okay, that's
obvious.
But really, the the essence ofwhy is because of what you're
saying.
Like, I know, like, number one,I can't affirm myself out of it.
(48:11):
I'm not like, hey, I'm I'm sucha great mathematician and I
understand all the accountingprinciples and the HR principles
of the world.
Blah, blah.
I'm not, dude.
Like, I hate it, I'm impatientabout it.
But if I can spit more time onaffirming my own strengths that
I know I have, such as, youknow, like you're a great
seller.
You're yeah, I love people.
I love being around, I lovetalking to folks and like and I
(48:33):
can affirm myself out of that.
And while my partner may notwant to do that, yeah.
You know, and he no, I shit thatthat's what makes that great.
That's a good uh Abby.
I know we're we're almost out oftime.
Uh Mark always asks thisquestion how do people in you
know get a hold of you and doinquire more about opportunities
with you?
SPEAKER_05 (48:52):
Of course.
So my website ishouseharmon.com.
SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
It's h-o-us e-h-a-r-m-o-n dot com.
unknown (49:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (49:01):
Yes.
And you can easily find me onLinkedIn, Abby A B I Harmon.
I have all of the socials aswell.
Um, and you know, again, the thesimplest way to work with me is
coaching.
Um, I obviously come in and doworkshops.
And then if you're reallycurious about your individual
performance, I do four-dayimmersive retreats.
(49:22):
So those are very leadershiporiented, integrating a lot of
the skills around nervous systemresilience.
And there's a little bit ofescapism in those as well.
SPEAKER_02 (49:31):
Wow.
Okay, that's super cool.
Yeah, it is.
Well, this is good.
I enjoyed the conversation.
It is.
Mark, what are you what do youthink, man?
SPEAKER_01 (49:40):
You're uh I'm just thinking I just want to do some
breathing right now.
All right.
SPEAKER_05 (49:45):
I'm gonna come back and we'll do that live because
there's a neuroscience conceptcalled neurosception, where when
we breathe together, it actuallycreates a really incredible
nervous system state.
So I'll hold you to it, I'llwear my hat and we'll breathe
together.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
I I I have discovered that biofeedback
really works.
Like if you look at your heartrate and you say to yourself,
I'm gonna consciously calm downand and lower that, I can do
that.
And so I tell your discoverysame thing.
SPEAKER_02 (50:16):
Yeah, very cool.
That would be pretty cool.
I'm wondering how that wouldturn out on like a video audio
show.
I don't know.
If you hook us up to heartmonitors and go, now breathe.
Okay.
But I think like we need tothink about that when you come
back on.
Like if you're just listening tothis on a drive, how do they
participate with us on this?
Yeah, think about that.
That'd be kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (50:36):
All right.
Well, Abby, it's been great tomeet you.
Really, I am uh I'm really happythat um I got to.
And I know Eric's always spokenhighly of you, and I can see why
you're successful what you'redoing and have been in the past.
Yeah, yep.
So great.
Thank you for being on our show.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_05 (50:52):
Thank you.
It's wonderful with you both.
SPEAKER_02 (50:54):
Yep, we'll have it, we'll have it again.
Thanks, Abby.
Bye, Abby.
Have a good day.
SPEAKER_00 (51:04):
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to ourwebsite,
www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com,and click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(51:26):
Business.
And be sure to head over to ourwebsite to read articles, browse
episodes, and ask questionsabout upcoming shows.
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