April 30, 2026 • 38 mins
Staying in a marriage for the sake of the kids often sounds like the noble path, but white-knuckling through a connection-less partnership eventually drains the life force out of everyone involved. When the internal cost of "staying" outweighs the fear of the unknown, the decision to leave isn't a failure—it's an act of preservation. In this episode, we sit down with Morli, an e-commerce CEO and mother, who navigated the end of a decade-long marriage while pregnant with her second child.
We sit down to discuss the practical and emotional logistics of what she calls "unmarrying." Our conversation covers the technicalities of maintaining a 50/50 parenting split that actually accounts for the mental load, the unconventional choice to move just across the street from a former spouse, and the utility of "radical honesty" during therapy. Morli shares her unique philosophy on preserving family wealth by bypassing traditional litigation and how the "D-word" provided the unexpected courage she needed to exit a high-level corporate career to launch her own brand.
The unglamorous truth is that even the most "amicable" separations involve moments of profound grief, especially when new partners enter the frame or the silence of a house hits for the first time. You’ll walk away from this conversation with a blueprint for intentional language, a better understanding of how to audit your own friendship circle, and the reminder that you are the only one responsible for your own happiness.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Bitter or Better, real stories of divorce
and resilience, the podcast thatgets real about the messy
middle of divorce and what ittakes to come out stronger on
the other side.
I'm your host, Abby England,marketer, national board
certified health and wellnesscoach, and author of the
upcoming book, Bitter or Better,and I've personally earned my
(00:21):
divorce Kevlar.
This podcast isn't legaladvice.
It isn't tips and tricks anddon't forget and hacks and
how-tos.
There's plenty of otherpodcasts out there interviewing
lawyers, therapists,accountants, all sorts of
divorce scientists.
This podcast is raw, realconversations with everyday
(00:42):
people who have jobs, kids,responsibilities, commitments,
and yet they've weathered theheartbreak, rebuilt their lives,
and found unexpected strengthalong the way.
Because while divorce can breakyou, it can also make you
better.
You are not alone.
Let's hear someone else's storyand see what resonates.
Speaker (01:02):
Hi, I am Morli Desai, and I'm a single mom preneur.
What does that mean?
That means I gotten married acouple of years ago, and I've
got two young boys that I pourall my love into.
And the courage that it took toactually get unmarried is I
took that courage to thenfulfill my lifelong dream, which
(01:24):
is to be an entrepreneur.
So what exactly do you do?
So I am the owner and CEO of ane-commerce skincare brand.
That seems like it wouldsomehow align with your personal
values.
Yes.
My mission in life is toempower women.
And through my brand, I helpwomen relieve their skin
(01:46):
insecurities likehyperpigmentation so that they
can show up in the world intheir most authentic and
beautiful cells.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh, I love that.
Because it sounds likeconfidence has been a journey
for you.
Speaker (01:59):
Absolutely.
Something that I have dealtwith hyperpigmentation my whole
entire life, being able to helpother women with their
hyperpigmentation issues.
The number one word that comesup when I talk to my customers
is this has helped me get myconfidence back.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
We're definitely going to talk about confidence
here today.
I think it's fitting thatyou're one of my first guests
because in how we met, can Ihave you share with our
listeners how we met?
Speaker (02:29):
We have a mutual friend who is a fashion designer.
She needed some models todisplay her beautiful clothing,
and we met on a photo shoot.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So when people ask us, how do you guys know each
other?
There's no other way than tosay we met on a photo shoot.
Speaker (02:50):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
You and I got really close because I remember I was
in the muck of it, and you werea few rungs above me on the
divorce ladder, and being like,it'll only get better one way or
another.
You're in the worst part of it.
And it was so helpful.
Speaker (03:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We're gonna be getting into a fairly vulnerable
chapter of your life.
Why did you agree to sit downwith me and open the book on
this?
Speaker (03:23):
A couple of reasons.
One is in your vulnerability ishow you move past things.
When you're constantlyrepressing things, they just get
buried.
But if you can actually bevulnerable and let them out, I
think that's a way to heal andto move through the journey.
The other reason is I thinkthere's a lot of things that
(03:47):
I've learned going through thisprocess.
If I can help someone that isin the pit that is going through
it, realize that there is somuch beauty and growth and
intentionality that you can havethrough the process of getting
unmarried, I would love that.
And if I had that when I wasgoing through it, I know I would
have benefited greatly from it.
You've certainly helped one.
(04:08):
She's sitting in the chair nextto you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So I'm hoping with this podcast, your story and
strength and resilienceresonates with others as well.
So maybe let's start from thebeginning.
How did you and your formerspouse meet?
Speaker (04:25):
Yeah, we met in grad school in Pennsylvania.
I got there a couple of daysearly to just get settled.
And the night before classesstarted, I had met a couple of
people.
And so we were hanging out at abar.
And one of the guys that I hadmet, um, my co-parent, was his
roommate.
So we showed up.
We just immediately clickedtogether.
(04:46):
There was just something abouthis energy that I remember in my
head being like, okay, yeah, Ithink, yeah, I like him.
I like what he's got going on.
At the laws of traction, itkind of brings you together.
Yeah.
It took us a year.
We were in like a big friendcircle of dating other people in
the circle until we finallycame together.
But we were really good friendsfor that year before we finally
(05:09):
got together.
What attracted you to eachother?
Like I mentioned, his energy,but we also had very similar
values.
He is very close to his family.
He is very rooted in hisauthenticity.
And what I liked about him isthat he just is very solid in
who he is.
(05:30):
He's very kind, a veryintentional person.
And he's also now the father ofmy children.
And these are still the thingsthat I still love about him and
think that he is an excellentfather.
He just has a lot of care inhim for other people.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
You're gorgeous children, by the way.
They're beautiful boys.
So describe the family dynamic.
Speaker (05:51):
It continues to evolve.
I call it like we're in amodern family where when we got
unmarried, it was during thepandemic when we separated and
we knew that we needed to havetwo different separate
households.
It was very fortuitous.
A house in our neighborhoodcame up for sale.
We decided to just go ahead andbuy it.
(06:11):
We're still married at the timeand weren't sure if the
separation would be permanent ornot.
But we said, you know what,it's still a good investment.
If we end up reconciling, wecould always set it up as a
rental.
And the place was literallyacross the street from the house
that we had been occupying.
Because of the pandemic, andbecause the my boys were one and
(06:34):
two, we had to do a lot ofparenting together.
So we did dinners every nightthrough the pandemic.
We went on trips togetherthrough the pandemic.
We still acted as a very closefamily unit.
We saw our boys every singleday, even though we were
physically living in two houses.
And it actually was a blessingbecause during the pandemic,
(06:55):
when someone was sick, it was alot easier to quarantine than if
we were stuck in one house.
And that went on for threeyears.
And then just recently, myco-parent has gotten engaged.
He had met someone a year ago.
He has gotten engaged and theyhave moved to a new house, which
is only a mile away.
But is it that same convenienceof being able to just run
(07:17):
across the street to grab a pairof soccer cleats or something
when you forget something?
But also just mentally nowthere's another co-parent in the
relationship.
And so we are going throughthat transition right now.
Wow.
Okay.
I definitely want to circleback to that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Um let's maybe rewind the clock.
And what happened?
Speaker (07:43):
How did the D-word come up?
Yeah, we were married for 10years.
When I think back and on ourrelationship, we met in grad
school.
We got married when we were 30.
So we had this independent lifethrough our 20s.
We had careers, we hadambitions for careers.
And coming out of grad school,we ended up moving out to
(08:04):
Colorado for my job.
And then I just became the maincareer person where fortunately
I had opportunities to moveabroad and then move back to the
States.
And my co-parent just he waslike still trying to find that
job or that career that hewanted to invest in.
And so we did a lot of moving.
And I've always been veryfocused and very motivated.
(08:27):
And in my corporate job, I putit first a lot when we were
married.
And it required me to be on theroad a lot, especially when we
lived in Singapore for a coupleof years.
I was probably gone three outof four weeks.
I was being fed because I wasgetting all of these different
(08:48):
relationships and experiencesand stuff.
And I think it was hard on myco-parent, who is a natural
extrovert in his personality andreally needs to be around
people and felt himselfstruggling in our marriage
because I just was gone a lot.
I think it was just afundamental difference in
expectations of what it was tobe in a marriage.
(09:10):
And I can't speak to him andwhat his experience was, but for
me, my expectation was to havea marriage where I was allowed
to have a lot of independenceand a lot of opportunity to
focus on things outside of themarriage.
That expectation that was not,it was hard.
I was not being met.
(09:30):
I would get a lot of guilt.
I would get a lot of feelinglike I wasn't being supported in
my career because of being gonea lot.
And even when I was physicallythere, a lot of times mentally,
I would still be there.
And then when we had childrenwas where it really came to the
forefront because then I had tofocus on that.
(09:50):
And I really struggled where Ifelt like I wasn't able to put
myself first in my marriage.
I had to put the kids first, Ihad to put my co-parent, I had
to put our marriage, I had toput my job, and then I put
myself.
And I fundamentally was nothappy in that situation because
I felt like I kept giving,giving, and giving, but I had
(10:11):
this constant feeling of Iwasn't enough.
It wasn't enough.
And so ultimately that feelingof not feeling enough was what
made me decide that, yeah, thisisn't serving me in this
relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's a lot.
That's a lot of feelings tohave while still being a mom and
a wife and a successfulcorporate director at the time.
So mentally you made thedecision.
But how did it get spoken intothe air?
How how did it come tofruition?
Speaker (10:43):
Looking back, we were in couples therapy from early on
in our marriage.
And in the beginning, it waslike it was a lot of
prophylactic.
We did a lot of counseling whenwe got engaged, just because I
think that's always a reallygood thing to do is to go
through premarital counselingand making sure that you're
thinking about the right thingswhen you're entering a marriage.
And so we had this culture,fortunately, of honest
(11:07):
communication, but honestcommunication with the support
of someone.
And we we struggled with someintimacy problems.
And I think a lot of it wasjust with me being gone, was
just a common theme of like hewasn't connected to me.
And the other thing, too, is Iam an introvert.
So I would be on these businesstrips, I'd be giving everything
(11:27):
I had.
I would get home and I wouldneed to go into my shelter a
little bit.
And it just didn't match whathe needed, which is I had been
gone and he needed me to comeback and we needed to connect.
And luckily, we had arelationship where we could be
brutally honest with each otherthrough using our therapist.
(11:47):
The kids were really whatmagnified it.
And I just remember being sixmonths pregnant with my second
child and sitting in thetherapist office and him saying,
I just don't have theseromantic feelings.
I've lost my intimateconnection with you.
I don't have them anymore.
That was a wake-up call for meof okay, what do it got?
(12:10):
Like it was one of those, whatdo I do now?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like, so you have one child already, who's maybe one
each, and then you're pregnant.
Not even one.
Not even one.
Okay.
And then six months pregnantwith your second child.
And you're in the therapist'soffice, and your husband tells
you what?
Speaker (12:27):
He lost the connection.
He said, I have love for you,but I'm not in love, right?
He just that connection that wehad, he just had lost it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
If you don't mind, let's go back to that moment.
What were you feeling when youheard that?
Speaker (12:47):
Being pregnant and having all of these hormones.
And I was in that nesting phasewhere all I wanted to do was
save my marriage because I'mabout to have his child.
We've been married for 10years, and the man says he's no
longer connected to me.
It was just fear and panic.
(13:07):
Yeah, fear is the only thing.
Like, what do I do with this?
I'm about to have a child.
It's a very distinct memory.
And then there's still traumaaround that marriage.
I think it's also like afeeling of being abandoned.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Man.
The intent of the podcast is tohave people share their stories
so that others either feel asense of connection to it or
feel a sense of gratitude, maybein their own situation.
And when I hear that you areabout to have two young kids and
(13:42):
about to go through a divorce,I can't imagine what that must
have felt like.
Speaker (13:51):
At the time, it was this feeling of what do I do
now?
Like feeling very lost, verysad, very just everything.
Angry and yeah, just scared.
I I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah.
Unfortunately, when it happens,you still have to go through
the process.
And it sucks and it'semotional, and you're angry and
scared and anxious and nervous,but you still have to go through
the process of divorce.
So then what was the next step?
Speaker (14:27):
For me, I needed to understand while he was being
brutally honest, and as hard asit was to hear that, I am
grateful that he he was honest.
He didn't stuff it down, hedidn't try to spare it.
Again, that's his thing.
He is authentic and brutallyhonest to a fault, where you're
(14:48):
like, okay, that was a punch inthe face, but he was just
speaking his truth.
And so I needed to have radicalempathy and try to put myself
in his situation and try to findsome kind of understanding and
acceptance.
And the thing that I amgrateful for is that through the
(15:08):
whole thing, he wastransparent, he was honest, he
was sticking to his truth.
I will always be gratefulbecause we never lost trust.
He never cheated on me, henever lied to me, he never
buried his feelings and gave methe silent treatment.
We went to therapy every singleweek and it was brutal, but
(15:30):
every single time showed up andhe said exactly what he was
thinking and feeling.
And I'll always be grateful forthat because I never had to
wonder.
I never had to guess.
I never had to worry about isthere something else going on?
And that is a gift because wecould get to the crux of the
(15:53):
crux.
We didn't have to fight uphere.
We could fight at where thething was.
And again, doing it in thesafety with a therapist who had
been with us for a couple ofyears till then and knew
everything.
It gave me the strength of,okay, as long as I keep showing
up and doing the hard thing ofbeing there and hearing it and
(16:16):
then also doing my journey.
And he said, I'm going to letyou make the decision about our
relationship.
So I don't know if this was outof cowardice or this was out of
compassion, but he said, I'mnot going to ask for a divorce.
I will stay if you want to stayin this marriage.
I want this to be a mutualdecision, or at least have you
(16:40):
in it.
And so I said, I want to try ashard as we can to see if we can
get the connection back.
And so we worked six months,probably six months to a year,
where we tried a lot ofdifferent things.
And I feel like I can trulywalk away and say, we tried
(17:02):
everything.
And again, just to be radicallycandor, like we tried opening
up our marriage to see if therewere other places that we could
get connection.
It did not serve me, especiallybeing a pregnant six-month, a
six-month-old.
I was not going to go out andfind other partners.
(17:23):
Ironically, my co-parent didnot have any trouble.
That's not me to judge on thatrelationship.
I closed our marriage and said,I'm not consenting to this, I'm
not actually comfortable.
And so we tried it with theclosed marriage again.
It wasn't working.
He came back to the table andsaid, This isn't working.
I'd like to open it up again.
And at that point, I felt likeI had tried everything.
(17:46):
And I wanted to then put myselffirst and say, This isn't
serving me.
I will be better served to beon my own for us to be
unmarried.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You really did try everything.
We did.
Oh my gosh.
That's you mentioned wanting toput yourself in his shoes or be
empathetic to the situation.
And the fact that you wouldexperiment with opening up your
marriage when you're six monthspregnant.
I can't think of anything moreempathetic or compassionate.
(18:26):
I cannot imagine what that waslike for you.
It was like feelings on top offeelings on top of feelings.
Speaker (18:34):
Yes, I have distinct memories of after my child was
born being up in the middle ofthe night, feeding my child, and
having tears running down, likerocking my child, and like
seeing this beautiful human andjust feeling so like scared and
(18:54):
so vulnerable, but feeling somuch love at the same time.
Yeah, feelings on feelings, butjust also I'm gonna get through
this.
Like I have what's important,which is I've got these two
little humans and I've gotmyself and I've got choice here,
which is again what I'mgrateful for.
(19:15):
Where I eventually said, Ithink we've tried everything.
I am not interested in openingup in an open marriage.
It doesn't serve me and what Ineed.
I would like to exploreseparation now.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Thank you for boldly sharing that.
You did have choice.
So you've you made the decisionthat, okay, we're gonna try
separation.
What did that look like?
Speaker (19:40):
And this was hard too because it was like it wasn't
like a clear, okay, we'reseparated, he moved out.
Again, this was like early2020, late 2019.
We still kept sleeping in thesame bed.
We still kept going on and wewould be coming back up to
therapy.
And our therapist would belike, you're you need to
(20:02):
separate more.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
You need to get out of the same bed.
Speaker (20:07):
Yeah.
And so then we're like, okay,so then he moved upstairs.
We've got a one-year-old andwe've got a newborn.
We're all hands-on deck, and itjust happened slowly by slowly,
where I felt like we caught wekept getting separated over and
over again at each kind ofseparation phase.
And so then he moved out of theroom.
And then eventually, like acouple months later, the house
(20:30):
came up.
He moved out of the house, butwe were still having dinner
together every night.
We were still hanging out withthe kids together.
We were going on vacationstogether.
We were like staying in thesame room together.
Then we got separate rooms.
Then we started doing optionaldinners.
We started handing off the kidsa little bit more.
(20:52):
And so it happened like thatwhen he eventually met someone,
I think that was where it waslike, okay, we can't keep doing
this.
Right.
The whole entire time, ourtherapist was like, you're not
separating enough.
You're not separating enough.
But I don't regret any of that.
It was a two to three yearprocess where I feel like now we
(21:13):
are obviously he is engaged tosomeone else, like we are
separated.
But for the kids, I think itwas really nice for them to feel
like we were still a family.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So they experienced a gradual progression of
separation.
Yeah.
Speaker (21:31):
And they're young enough that I just don't even
know if they remember when theywere like one and newborn when
he ended up moving into adifferent house.
They're five and seven now.
It's only now that I thinkthey're starting to ask the
question, or I just think theythought it was normal that
everyone had multiple houseswhen it was just that was what
their normal was.
(21:52):
And everyone just went back andforth and not, it wasn't
anything unusual.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That is all that they know, and they don't know any
differently.
Talked about different giftsthroughout this that might also
be a gift to the children, isthey didn't experience the
separation as maybe like someoneolder than six years old.
Well, you are very intentionalwith the language that you use
(22:20):
and don't use.
What is this nomenclature thatyou've adopted and why is it so
important?
Speaker (22:28):
Really, the separation was meant to be a trial, right?
To see if this is what servesus and then figure out the next.
When I was in the separationand I was living on my own, and
I had then decided to put myselffirst, it felt right.
He was allowing me to comeforward and say, okay, so I was
(22:48):
the one after about six monthsseparation, being like, I would
like to go ahead and finalizethis divorce, where I
reluctantly was like, gosh, Idon't know if I really want to
be a single mom to two littlehumans.
I actually really loved theindependence.
It felt like I was coming intomy own.
(23:08):
And so I said, let's go aheadand finalize a divorce.
I think we would have beencomfortable living in a still
married but separate household,so we could do whatever.
We didn't think society couldunderstand that situation.
Our families couldn'tunderstand that situation where
we still had a lot of love foreach other.
(23:30):
We still were a family, but wehad an opportunity to create
connections with other people.
People struggled with it.
And so we said, why don't justlet's finalize it?
Society isn't ready for thesegray type marriages.
When we were going through it,we had the gift of being very
intentional about it because wehad worked through all the
(23:52):
emotions already.
So we could be veryintentional.
We were intentional with ourwords.
So we don't say divorce, we saywe got unmarried.
We don't call each otherex-husband, ex-wife, we say
co-parents, right?
Because these are words that weassociate more with what our
truth is.
And kind of we have threemantras of humming out of our
(24:15):
marriage, which one was the kidsalways come first.
So every single decision has tobe made because our
relationship now centers aroundthat.
While we are friends, that'snot the primary relationship we
have anymore.
We are parents.
Two was you are responsible foryour own happiness.
(24:36):
We gave each other blessingsbecause he actually was like,
when we were still separated, weweren't even f officially
divorced.
He wanted to go out and startdating again.
And I was like, you don't needmy blessing.
You were in charge of your ownhappiness.
I don't want to ever feel likeI am responsible anymore.
And in that same way, I alsobecame a lot more not selfish,
(24:59):
but full of self, where I waslike, I'm going to start
prioritizing myself and I'mgoing to ask for what I need.
Where before I didn't feel Ihad that power.
And so I tell people there isnothing like a legal document
that says you have 50-50 custodyto have a 50-50 partner where I
didn't feel like we had that inour marriage.
(25:19):
And granted, it was still thevery, very early stages where a
lot of it depended on mephysically to help my kids.
But it's one of the things Iabsolutely love about a
relationship is I have a true50-50 parent and it is glorious.
And it's not just the physicaltake take care of them, but it's
also the mental load, getshared 50-50 between us.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And that is not how it typically, I don't know, I
don't have children, but inlistening to other friends and
please elaborate on this, thatpercentage is not 50-50 when you
were married.
Speaker (25:54):
Yes.
And not through any fault ofhis own.
I think we also get programmedas women and as mothers that we
have to carry a lot more of themental load that then gets
converted into the physicalload.
Even this morning, I had on mylist I had to call their dentist
to get like this thing upscreened.
(26:15):
I just procrastinated.
And my co-parent was like, Haveyou called the dentist?
And I was like, No, can you doit?
And he said yes.
And he took care of it.
And he's actually been to thelast two or three dentist
appointments.
And I always joke when I meetum a guy that's yeah, I'm a
total 50-50.
And I was like, What is yourkid's dentist name?
(26:36):
Can you answer that?
And in every single situation,they have had no idea.
And I was like, nope, come backto me when you know your kid's
dentist name.
That's a good point.
And when you've gone to thedentist with your kid, then you
can prove to me that you are atrue 50-50 parent.
Yes.
And then the third thing ispreserve wealth.
We did not do lawyers.
(26:58):
We um did not do mediation.
We had a counselor, which Ihonestly thought that she was
not even worth the value becausewe actually told her what we
wanted.
And it was very clear we'resplitting everything 50-50.
We structured things in a waythat we had stuff set aside for
the kids.
(27:18):
We don't have to um nickel anddime each other.
There is extra stuff that'sbeen set aside that will pay for
all the kids that we have 50-50ownership to.
I only have to worry aboutmyself and my livelihood, which
gave me the courage and thestrength to transition out of
corporate and to go after mydream and be an entrepreneur.
(27:40):
And I don't think I would havedone that had I not had the
courage of I can do this, I cando hard things.
I just got out of a 10-yearmarriage and I am thriving.
I didn't have the financialfear of leaving a very stable
job that was not serving me tothen take the roller coaster
that is entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So you took us through the three pillars that
you and your co-parent agreedupon as you're going through
this process.
What tools did you personallylean into during this time?
Speaker (28:18):
Mm-hmm.
I continued to go to therapy.
There is a there was a lot offeelings, right?
I mean, there's so much comingout of a 10-year marriage and a
relationship.
So we had our couplestherapist, but then I went to
another woman that was then mytherapist that was just focused
on me.
So that was really important.
I decided that I was never evergoing to be in a situation
(28:42):
where I put myself last.
And so I really did a lot ofwork on what does that mean to
put myself first?
And for me, it was reallyunderstanding what my priorities
in life were.
And it also coincided with meturning 40 and having this kind
of midlife reset.
I'm going to invest in mywellness.
I'm going to invest in myrelationships.
One of the things that wasreally eye-opening was because I
(29:04):
traveled so much and myco-parent was the extrovert.
He defined our friendshipcircle.
He was the one that was like,oh, I made dinner plans with
whatever.
And I was just tagging along.
Coming out of the marriage, andit was also the pandemic, I
lifted my head and I had no one.
I had no friends.
(29:25):
Luckily, I had family that'slocal that really supported me,
but I didn't have thegirlfriends.
And I think it was just becauseI didn't invest in the
girlfriends.
I let it all happen.
And so one of the things that Idid was I invested a lot in
girlfriends, in relationships,in finding people that were in
(29:47):
the same storyline.
And I honestly think, Abby, Imanifested you, right?
I was probably, I think thiswas what, 22?
20, 22.
22, yeah.
So like I had been one yeardivorced, and I was really just
craving beautiful girlfriendships.
And you came into my life andwe just bonded over these life
(30:09):
experiences.
Right.
I did a lot of work on that.
And then I'd promised myselfthat I would always explore and
grow and have an open mind andknow that, yeah, if I could get
through this, like I can getthrough anything.
For my 40th, and to celebrategetting unmarried, I decided to
take a trip to Tanzania andclimb Kilimanjaro and do this
(30:34):
life-altering safari.
It was also the 10-yearanniversary of my dad passing,
and he actually grew up inTanzania.
And so it was just like thesebeautiful moments of rebirth and
re-establishing myself and justsaying, okay, this is a new
life, but it's a life that'sfilled with joy and love and
(30:56):
compassion and just making surethat I'm spending like the 2,000
weeks that I have left on thisearth.
Yeah, weeks left.
And in a very intentional,beautiful way that serves me.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
If if you could go back or talk to the you that was
in bed, crying, scared,nervous, anxious, angry, what
would this tell that, Morley?
Speaker (31:27):
No.
It's so interesting.
I would just give her a big hugand I would just say, You're
gonna like just flower throughthis, right?
And I knew this at the time.
I'm gonna be okay.
I have what's important here.
I'm gonna be okay.
But I think if I could go backand just wrap my arms around
that person and just pour asmuch love and say, Yeah, this is
(31:49):
important.
This is growth.
This is what you need tounderstand what is truly
important to you and to live alife full of joy and love in the
most, in the best way you can.
I think it would just be togive my love.
And I knew intuitively at thattime, because I had been in
other relationships nowhere aslong and as intense as a 10-year
(32:09):
marriage, but they I alwayscame out of them in this
renaissance where it became likefuel of this rebirth and this
regrowth.
I knew fundamentally that thatwould happen.
I felt in control of myrelationship with the co-parent
at every moment.
We never lost trust.
I was never wondering what wasgoing on.
(32:31):
And I will always be gratefulfor that because that took a lot
of courage on his part to showup and be honest the whole time
because it could have been avery different situation if he
wasn't as courageous.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yes.
Honesty is a gift.
I'll say in my own situation,he was not truly honest.
He never mentioned anythingabout an affair.
And it was all these otherreasons.
You're not this anymore, you'renot that anymore, you're not
this, you're not that.
For months, I carried around somuch guilt and pain.
(33:10):
Oh, Abby, if you would havedone this, or if you would have
done that, and just secondguessing myself all the time.
And it wasn't until I found outit was an affair that I was
like almost freed of thosefeelings of inadequacy, in which
I could say, oh no, it's notme.
It's about you.
(33:30):
As brutal as maybe it was tohear whatever he said.
Hopefully, for some listeners,the honesty is a gift as well.
Speaker (33:41):
Yeah.
And I think that's why myco-opar and I continue to have a
very positive, strongrelationship.
And through every step, likeagain, I am grateful that in
therapy he warned me that he wasgoing to propose.
And so when he did get engaged,we have a lot of mutual friends
reaching out and being like,How are you doing?
Are you okay?
And I'm like, Yeah, I'm okay.
(34:02):
I am very happy for him.
This is what he needs to behappy.
And selfishly, I need him, Iwant him to be happy because of
our two little humans.
And so I am grateful that I'venever been blindsided.
And that's a true gift that hegave me.
And it also forced me then.
I had to show up also and trulythink about what I needed.
(34:26):
And again, like mantra numberstwo was you are responsible for
your own happiness and your ownself.
You go get it, and you've gotthe blessing of the other person
to go after it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Going through this process, what values
crystallized for you?
You mentioned your priorities.
What became crystal clear asgoing through this process?
Speaker (34:51):
Living your truth, right?
And being in your authenticself and what is serving you.
A key thing was when I lookedat my corporate job, I loved
that how stable it was, but itwas sucking the life force out
of me.
And I was still traveling everyother week.
Every single time I had to geton a plane and leave those two
babies, a part of me was likebeing wrenched out of me.
(35:16):
I didn't want to do thatanymore because I had the
courage from leaving themarriage.
I was like, I can leave this.
I'd always wanted to be anentrepreneur.
I did it cold turkey saying,I'll figure it out.
I don't know what that means,but I'll figure it out.
Making sure that always orleading with those priorities of
putting myself first, that it'snot selfish to have a nanny and
(35:38):
have a Saturday morning where Ican rest or go to yoga and have
someone else watch my children.
These are important thingsbecause you can't put yourself
first and you can't make surethat you are full and whole,
then you can't show up for thepeople that need you to be full
and whole.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So you come out of this as a renaissance woman.
What gifts or opportunities didyour divorce bring you?
Speaker (36:08):
Just the courage to go out there and take risks and do
things.
If I had not gone through thedivorce or the unmarrying, I
would have never left my stablecorporate job and gone after
being an entrepreneur.
And I absolutely love it.
And it's my destiny.
And I love the control.
I am there for my kids.
(36:29):
I have time to pour into myrelationships.
And I can live my mission,which is to empower women,
through that, which I don't feellike I've ever lived in true
alignment with all of thatbefore when I was married.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
How does it feel to now have multiple sources of
fulfillment to live in yourtruths?
What does that feel like?
Speaker (36:56):
But it's still a constant struggle, right?
I still also give myself gracethat I'm human.
So, like when my co-parent didget engaged, there are feelings
of grief and annoyance and likenow we've got a co-parent
three-way.
There's still moments of that,but there's also this underlying
contentment of I'm not reachingfor an end.
(37:16):
I'm living in the everyday andappreciating it.
I think the resilience to getup each day and go through the
hard things and stay present andin the now and to process the
feelings that come with beinghuman, I wouldn't have been as
equipped had I not gone throughthat difficult transition, but
very um beneficial transition.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Resilience is the theme of this podcast.
So thank you for being myfriend, but then also for coming
on and sharing all of this.
Speaker (37:46):
You are very welcome.
I think this is an importantthing to share our stories with
other people.
I remember going through it andjust looking for any point of
connection or any point ofcommonality.
I listened to a lot of podcastswhen I was going through my
divorce, and there wasn't like aperfect match.
So again, listening to thesestories and being able to see,
(38:09):
okay, here's where I resonate,here is where I am, and then
seeing that people have movedthrough it and they are in a
much better position.
I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Thanks for listening to Bitter or Better, where we
turn heartbreak into healing andsurvival into strength.
As Brene Brown says,vulnerability is the last thing
we want to show, but the firstthing we look for in others.
That's what this is all about.
Real people showing up, sharingtheir stories, and reminding
the rest of us that we're notalone.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with someone who
(38:41):
might need to hear it too.
And remember, you have a choicebetter or better.
See you next time for more realstories, real people, and real
resilience.
Welcome to Bitter or Better, real stories of divorce
and resilience, the podcast thatgets real about the messy
middle of divorce and what ittakes to come out stronger on
the other side.
I'm your host, Abby England,marketer, national board
certified health and wellnesscoach, and author of the
upcoming book, Bitter or Better,and I've personally earned my
(00:21):
divorce Kevlar.
This podcast isn't legaladvice.
It isn't tips and tricks anddon't forget and hacks and
how-tos.
There's plenty of otherpodcasts out there interviewing
lawyers, therapists,accountants, all sorts of
divorce scientists.
This podcast is raw, realconversations with everyday
(00:42):
people who have jobs, kids,responsibilities, commitments,
and yet they've weathered theheartbreak, rebuilt their lives,
and found unexpected strengthalong the way.
Because while divorce can breakyou, it can also make you
better.
You are not alone.
Let's hear someone else's storyand see what resonates.
Speaker (01:02):
Hi, I am Morli Desai, and I'm a single mom preneur.
What does that mean?
That means I gotten married acouple of years ago, and I've
got two young boys that I pourall my love into.
And the courage that it took toactually get unmarried is I
took that courage to thenfulfill my lifelong dream, which
(01:24):
is to be an entrepreneur.
So what exactly do you do?
So I am the owner and CEO of ane-commerce skincare brand.
That seems like it wouldsomehow align with your personal
values.
Yes.
My mission in life is toempower women.
And through my brand, I helpwomen relieve their skin
(01:46):
insecurities likehyperpigmentation so that they
can show up in the world intheir most authentic and
beautiful cells.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh, I love that.
Because it sounds likeconfidence has been a journey
for you.
Speaker (01:59):
Absolutely.
Something that I have dealtwith hyperpigmentation my whole
entire life, being able to helpother women with their
hyperpigmentation issues.
The number one word that comesup when I talk to my customers
is this has helped me get myconfidence back.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
We're definitely going to talk about confidence
here today.
I think it's fitting thatyou're one of my first guests
because in how we met, can Ihave you share with our
listeners how we met?
Speaker (02:29):
We have a mutual friend who is a fashion designer.
She needed some models todisplay her beautiful clothing,
and we met on a photo shoot.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So when people ask us, how do you guys know each
other?
There's no other way than tosay we met on a photo shoot.
Speaker (02:50):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
You and I got really close because I remember I was
in the muck of it, and you werea few rungs above me on the
divorce ladder, and being like,it'll only get better one way or
another.
You're in the worst part of it.
And it was so helpful.
Speaker (03:11):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
We're gonna be getting into a fairly vulnerable
chapter of your life.
Why did you agree to sit downwith me and open the book on
this?
Speaker (03:23):
A couple of reasons.
One is in your vulnerability ishow you move past things.
When you're constantlyrepressing things, they just get
buried.
But if you can actually bevulnerable and let them out, I
think that's a way to heal andto move through the journey.
The other reason is I thinkthere's a lot of things that
(03:47):
I've learned going through thisprocess.
If I can help someone that isin the pit that is going through
it, realize that there is somuch beauty and growth and
intentionality that you can havethrough the process of getting
unmarried, I would love that.
And if I had that when I wasgoing through it, I know I would
have benefited greatly from it.
You've certainly helped one.
(04:08):
She's sitting in the chair nextto you.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So I'm hoping with this podcast, your story and
strength and resilienceresonates with others as well.
So maybe let's start from thebeginning.
How did you and your formerspouse meet?
Speaker (04:25):
Yeah, we met in grad school in Pennsylvania.
I got there a couple of daysearly to just get settled.
And the night before classesstarted, I had met a couple of
people.
And so we were hanging out at abar.
And one of the guys that I hadmet, um, my co-parent, was his
roommate.
So we showed up.
We just immediately clickedtogether.
(04:46):
There was just something abouthis energy that I remember in my
head being like, okay, yeah, Ithink, yeah, I like him.
I like what he's got going on.
At the laws of traction, itkind of brings you together.
Yeah.
It took us a year.
We were in like a big friendcircle of dating other people in
the circle until we finallycame together.
But we were really good friendsfor that year before we finally
(05:09):
got together.
What attracted you to eachother?
Like I mentioned, his energy,but we also had very similar
values.
He is very close to his family.
He is very rooted in hisauthenticity.
And what I liked about him isthat he just is very solid in
who he is.
(05:30):
He's very kind, a veryintentional person.
And he's also now the father ofmy children.
And these are still the thingsthat I still love about him and
think that he is an excellentfather.
He just has a lot of care inhim for other people.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
You're gorgeous children, by the way.
They're beautiful boys.
So describe the family dynamic.
Speaker (05:51):
It continues to evolve.
I call it like we're in amodern family where when we got
unmarried, it was during thepandemic when we separated and
we knew that we needed to havetwo different separate
households.
It was very fortuitous.
A house in our neighborhoodcame up for sale.
We decided to just go ahead andbuy it.
(06:11):
We're still married at the timeand weren't sure if the
separation would be permanent ornot.
But we said, you know what,it's still a good investment.
If we end up reconciling, wecould always set it up as a
rental.
And the place was literallyacross the street from the house
that we had been occupying.
Because of the pandemic, andbecause the my boys were one and
(06:34):
two, we had to do a lot ofparenting together.
So we did dinners every nightthrough the pandemic.
We went on trips togetherthrough the pandemic.
We still acted as a very closefamily unit.
We saw our boys every singleday, even though we were
physically living in two houses.
And it actually was a blessingbecause during the pandemic,
(06:55):
when someone was sick, it was alot easier to quarantine than if
we were stuck in one house.
And that went on for threeyears.
And then just recently, myco-parent has gotten engaged.
He had met someone a year ago.
He has gotten engaged and theyhave moved to a new house, which
is only a mile away.
But is it that same convenienceof being able to just run
(07:17):
across the street to grab a pairof soccer cleats or something
when you forget something?
But also just mentally nowthere's another co-parent in the
relationship.
And so we are going throughthat transition right now.
Wow.
Okay.
I definitely want to circleback to that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Um let's maybe rewind the clock.
And what happened?
Speaker (07:43):
How did the D-word come up?
Yeah, we were married for 10years.
When I think back and on ourrelationship, we met in grad
school.
We got married when we were 30.
So we had this independent lifethrough our 20s.
We had careers, we hadambitions for careers.
And coming out of grad school,we ended up moving out to
(08:04):
Colorado for my job.
And then I just became the maincareer person where fortunately
I had opportunities to moveabroad and then move back to the
States.
And my co-parent just he waslike still trying to find that
job or that career that hewanted to invest in.
And so we did a lot of moving.
And I've always been veryfocused and very motivated.
(08:27):
And in my corporate job, I putit first a lot when we were
married.
And it required me to be on theroad a lot, especially when we
lived in Singapore for a coupleof years.
I was probably gone three outof four weeks.
I was being fed because I wasgetting all of these different
(08:48):
relationships and experiencesand stuff.
And I think it was hard on myco-parent, who is a natural
extrovert in his personality andreally needs to be around
people and felt himselfstruggling in our marriage
because I just was gone a lot.
I think it was just afundamental difference in
expectations of what it was tobe in a marriage.
(09:10):
And I can't speak to him andwhat his experience was, but for
me, my expectation was to havea marriage where I was allowed
to have a lot of independenceand a lot of opportunity to
focus on things outside of themarriage.
That expectation that was not,it was hard.
I was not being met.
(09:30):
I would get a lot of guilt.
I would get a lot of feelinglike I wasn't being supported in
my career because of being gonea lot.
And even when I was physicallythere, a lot of times mentally,
I would still be there.
And then when we had childrenwas where it really came to the
forefront because then I had tofocus on that.
(09:50):
And I really struggled where Ifelt like I wasn't able to put
myself first in my marriage.
I had to put the kids first, Ihad to put my co-parent, I had
to put our marriage, I had toput my job, and then I put
myself.
And I fundamentally was nothappy in that situation because
I felt like I kept giving,giving, and giving, but I had
(10:11):
this constant feeling of Iwasn't enough.
It wasn't enough.
And so ultimately that feelingof not feeling enough was what
made me decide that, yeah, thisisn't serving me in this
relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
That's a lot.
That's a lot of feelings tohave while still being a mom and
a wife and a successfulcorporate director at the time.
So mentally you made thedecision.
But how did it get spoken intothe air?
How how did it come tofruition?
Speaker (10:43):
Looking back, we were in couples therapy from early on
in our marriage.
And in the beginning, it waslike it was a lot of
prophylactic.
We did a lot of counseling whenwe got engaged, just because I
think that's always a reallygood thing to do is to go
through premarital counselingand making sure that you're
thinking about the right thingswhen you're entering a marriage.
And so we had this culture,fortunately, of honest
(11:07):
communication, but honestcommunication with the support
of someone.
And we we struggled with someintimacy problems.
And I think a lot of it wasjust with me being gone, was
just a common theme of like hewasn't connected to me.
And the other thing, too, is Iam an introvert.
So I would be on these businesstrips, I'd be giving everything
(11:27):
I had.
I would get home and I wouldneed to go into my shelter a
little bit.
And it just didn't match whathe needed, which is I had been
gone and he needed me to comeback and we needed to connect.
And luckily, we had arelationship where we could be
brutally honest with each otherthrough using our therapist.
(11:47):
The kids were really whatmagnified it.
And I just remember being sixmonths pregnant with my second
child and sitting in thetherapist office and him saying,
I just don't have theseromantic feelings.
I've lost my intimateconnection with you.
I don't have them anymore.
That was a wake-up call for meof okay, what do it got?
(12:10):
Like it was one of those, whatdo I do now?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Like, so you have one child already, who's maybe one
each, and then you're pregnant.
Not even one.
Not even one.
Okay.
And then six months pregnantwith your second child.
And you're in the therapist'soffice, and your husband tells
you what?
Speaker (12:27):
He lost the connection.
He said, I have love for you,but I'm not in love, right?
He just that connection that wehad, he just had lost it.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
If you don't mind, let's go back to that moment.
What were you feeling when youheard that?
Speaker (12:47):
Being pregnant and having all of these hormones.
And I was in that nesting phasewhere all I wanted to do was
save my marriage because I'mabout to have his child.
We've been married for 10years, and the man says he's no
longer connected to me.
It was just fear and panic.
(13:07):
Yeah, fear is the only thing.
Like, what do I do with this?
I'm about to have a child.
It's a very distinct memory.
And then there's still traumaaround that marriage.
I think it's also like afeeling of being abandoned.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Man.
The intent of the podcast is tohave people share their stories
so that others either feel asense of connection to it or
feel a sense of gratitude, maybein their own situation.
And when I hear that you areabout to have two young kids and
(13:42):
about to go through a divorce,I can't imagine what that must
have felt like.
Speaker (13:51):
At the time, it was this feeling of what do I do
now?
Like feeling very lost, verysad, very just everything.
Angry and yeah, just scared.
I I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Yeah.
Unfortunately, when it happens,you still have to go through
the process.
And it sucks and it'semotional, and you're angry and
scared and anxious and nervous,but you still have to go through
the process of divorce.
So then what was the next step?
Speaker (14:27):
For me, I needed to understand while he was being
brutally honest, and as hard asit was to hear that, I am
grateful that he he was honest.
He didn't stuff it down, hedidn't try to spare it.
Again, that's his thing.
He is authentic and brutallyhonest to a fault, where you're
(14:48):
like, okay, that was a punch inthe face, but he was just
speaking his truth.
And so I needed to have radicalempathy and try to put myself
in his situation and try to findsome kind of understanding and
acceptance.
And the thing that I amgrateful for is that through the
(15:08):
whole thing, he wastransparent, he was honest, he
was sticking to his truth.
I will always be gratefulbecause we never lost trust.
He never cheated on me, henever lied to me, he never
buried his feelings and gave methe silent treatment.
We went to therapy every singleweek and it was brutal, but
(15:30):
every single time showed up andhe said exactly what he was
thinking and feeling.
And I'll always be grateful forthat because I never had to
wonder.
I never had to guess.
I never had to worry about isthere something else going on?
And that is a gift because wecould get to the crux of the
(15:53):
crux.
We didn't have to fight uphere.
We could fight at where thething was.
And again, doing it in thesafety with a therapist who had
been with us for a couple ofyears till then and knew
everything.
It gave me the strength of,okay, as long as I keep showing
up and doing the hard thing ofbeing there and hearing it and
(16:16):
then also doing my journey.
And he said, I'm going to letyou make the decision about our
relationship.
So I don't know if this was outof cowardice or this was out of
compassion, but he said, I'mnot going to ask for a divorce.
I will stay if you want to stayin this marriage.
I want this to be a mutualdecision, or at least have you
(16:40):
in it.
And so I said, I want to try ashard as we can to see if we can
get the connection back.
And so we worked six months,probably six months to a year,
where we tried a lot ofdifferent things.
And I feel like I can trulywalk away and say, we tried
(17:02):
everything.
And again, just to be radicallycandor, like we tried opening
up our marriage to see if therewere other places that we could
get connection.
It did not serve me, especiallybeing a pregnant six-month, a
six-month-old.
I was not going to go out andfind other partners.
(17:23):
Ironically, my co-parent didnot have any trouble.
That's not me to judge on thatrelationship.
I closed our marriage and said,I'm not consenting to this, I'm
not actually comfortable.
And so we tried it with theclosed marriage again.
It wasn't working.
He came back to the table andsaid, This isn't working.
I'd like to open it up again.
And at that point, I felt likeI had tried everything.
(17:46):
And I wanted to then put myselffirst and say, This isn't
serving me.
I will be better served to beon my own for us to be
unmarried.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
You really did try everything.
We did.
Oh my gosh.
That's you mentioned wanting toput yourself in his shoes or be
empathetic to the situation.
And the fact that you wouldexperiment with opening up your
marriage when you're six monthspregnant.
I can't think of anything moreempathetic or compassionate.
(18:26):
I cannot imagine what that waslike for you.
It was like feelings on top offeelings on top of feelings.
Speaker (18:34):
Yes, I have distinct memories of after my child was
born being up in the middle ofthe night, feeding my child, and
having tears running down, likerocking my child, and like
seeing this beautiful human andjust feeling so like scared and
(18:54):
so vulnerable, but feeling somuch love at the same time.
Yeah, feelings on feelings, butjust also I'm gonna get through
this.
Like I have what's important,which is I've got these two
little humans and I've gotmyself and I've got choice here,
which is again what I'mgrateful for.
(19:15):
Where I eventually said, Ithink we've tried everything.
I am not interested in openingup in an open marriage.
It doesn't serve me and what Ineed.
I would like to exploreseparation now.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Thank you for boldly sharing that.
You did have choice.
So you've you made the decisionthat, okay, we're gonna try
separation.
What did that look like?
Speaker (19:40):
And this was hard too because it was like it wasn't
like a clear, okay, we'reseparated, he moved out.
Again, this was like early2020, late 2019.
We still kept sleeping in thesame bed.
We still kept going on and wewould be coming back up to
therapy.
And our therapist would belike, you're you need to
(20:02):
separate more.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
You need to get out of the same bed.
Speaker (20:07):
Yeah.
And so then we're like, okay,so then he moved upstairs.
We've got a one-year-old andwe've got a newborn.
We're all hands-on deck, and itjust happened slowly by slowly,
where I felt like we caught wekept getting separated over and
over again at each kind ofseparation phase.
And so then he moved out of theroom.
And then eventually, like acouple months later, the house
(20:30):
came up.
He moved out of the house, butwe were still having dinner
together every night.
We were still hanging out withthe kids together.
We were going on vacationstogether.
We were like staying in thesame room together.
Then we got separate rooms.
Then we started doing optionaldinners.
We started handing off the kidsa little bit more.
(20:52):
And so it happened like thatwhen he eventually met someone,
I think that was where it waslike, okay, we can't keep doing
this.
Right.
The whole entire time, ourtherapist was like, you're not
separating enough.
You're not separating enough.
But I don't regret any of that.
It was a two to three yearprocess where I feel like now we
(21:13):
are obviously he is engaged tosomeone else, like we are
separated.
But for the kids, I think itwas really nice for them to feel
like we were still a family.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So they experienced a gradual progression of
separation.
Yeah.
Speaker (21:31):
And they're young enough that I just don't even
know if they remember when theywere like one and newborn when
he ended up moving into adifferent house.
They're five and seven now.
It's only now that I thinkthey're starting to ask the
question, or I just think theythought it was normal that
everyone had multiple houseswhen it was just that was what
their normal was.
(21:52):
And everyone just went back andforth and not, it wasn't
anything unusual.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
That is all that they know, and they don't know any
differently.
Talked about different giftsthroughout this that might also
be a gift to the children, isthey didn't experience the
separation as maybe like someoneolder than six years old.
Well, you are very intentionalwith the language that you use
(22:20):
and don't use.
What is this nomenclature thatyou've adopted and why is it so
important?
Speaker (22:28):
Really, the separation was meant to be a trial, right?
To see if this is what servesus and then figure out the next.
When I was in the separationand I was living on my own, and
I had then decided to put myselffirst, it felt right.
He was allowing me to comeforward and say, okay, so I was
(22:48):
the one after about six monthsseparation, being like, I would
like to go ahead and finalizethis divorce, where I
reluctantly was like, gosh, Idon't know if I really want to
be a single mom to two littlehumans.
I actually really loved theindependence.
It felt like I was coming intomy own.
(23:08):
And so I said, let's go aheadand finalize a divorce.
I think we would have beencomfortable living in a still
married but separate household,so we could do whatever.
We didn't think society couldunderstand that situation.
Our families couldn'tunderstand that situation where
we still had a lot of love foreach other.
(23:30):
We still were a family, but wehad an opportunity to create
connections with other people.
People struggled with it.
And so we said, why don't justlet's finalize it?
Society isn't ready for thesegray type marriages.
When we were going through it,we had the gift of being very
intentional about it because wehad worked through all the
(23:52):
emotions already.
So we could be veryintentional.
We were intentional with ourwords.
So we don't say divorce, we saywe got unmarried.
We don't call each otherex-husband, ex-wife, we say
co-parents, right?
Because these are words that weassociate more with what our
truth is.
And kind of we have threemantras of humming out of our
(24:15):
marriage, which one was the kidsalways come first.
So every single decision has tobe made because our
relationship now centers aroundthat.
While we are friends, that'snot the primary relationship we
have anymore.
We are parents.
Two was you are responsible foryour own happiness.
(24:36):
We gave each other blessingsbecause he actually was like,
when we were still separated, weweren't even f officially
divorced.
He wanted to go out and startdating again.
And I was like, you don't needmy blessing.
You were in charge of your ownhappiness.
I don't want to ever feel likeI am responsible anymore.
And in that same way, I alsobecame a lot more not selfish,
(24:59):
but full of self, where I waslike, I'm going to start
prioritizing myself and I'mgoing to ask for what I need.
Where before I didn't feel Ihad that power.
And so I tell people there isnothing like a legal document
that says you have 50-50 custodyto have a 50-50 partner where I
didn't feel like we had that inour marriage.
(25:19):
And granted, it was still thevery, very early stages where a
lot of it depended on mephysically to help my kids.
But it's one of the things Iabsolutely love about a
relationship is I have a true50-50 parent and it is glorious.
And it's not just the physicaltake take care of them, but it's
also the mental load, getshared 50-50 between us.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
And that is not how it typically, I don't know, I
don't have children, but inlistening to other friends and
please elaborate on this, thatpercentage is not 50-50 when you
were married.
Speaker (25:54):
Yes.
And not through any fault ofhis own.
I think we also get programmedas women and as mothers that we
have to carry a lot more of themental load that then gets
converted into the physicalload.
Even this morning, I had on mylist I had to call their dentist
to get like this thing upscreened.
(26:15):
I just procrastinated.
And my co-parent was like, Haveyou called the dentist?
And I was like, No, can you doit?
And he said yes.
And he took care of it.
And he's actually been to thelast two or three dentist
appointments.
And I always joke when I meetum a guy that's yeah, I'm a
total 50-50.
And I was like, What is yourkid's dentist name?
(26:36):
Can you answer that?
And in every single situation,they have had no idea.
And I was like, nope, come backto me when you know your kid's
dentist name.
That's a good point.
And when you've gone to thedentist with your kid, then you
can prove to me that you are atrue 50-50 parent.
Yes.
And then the third thing ispreserve wealth.
We did not do lawyers.
(26:58):
We um did not do mediation.
We had a counselor, which Ihonestly thought that she was
not even worth the value becausewe actually told her what we
wanted.
And it was very clear we'resplitting everything 50-50.
We structured things in a waythat we had stuff set aside for
the kids.
(27:18):
We don't have to um nickel anddime each other.
There is extra stuff that'sbeen set aside that will pay for
all the kids that we have 50-50ownership to.
I only have to worry aboutmyself and my livelihood, which
gave me the courage and thestrength to transition out of
corporate and to go after mydream and be an entrepreneur.
(27:40):
And I don't think I would havedone that had I not had the
courage of I can do this, I cando hard things.
I just got out of a 10-yearmarriage and I am thriving.
I didn't have the financialfear of leaving a very stable
job that was not serving me tothen take the roller coaster
that is entrepreneurship.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So you took us through the three pillars that
you and your co-parent agreedupon as you're going through
this process.
What tools did you personallylean into during this time?
Speaker (28:18):
Mm-hmm.
I continued to go to therapy.
There is a there was a lot offeelings, right?
I mean, there's so much comingout of a 10-year marriage and a
relationship.
So we had our couplestherapist, but then I went to
another woman that was then mytherapist that was just focused
on me.
So that was really important.
I decided that I was never evergoing to be in a situation
(28:42):
where I put myself last.
And so I really did a lot ofwork on what does that mean to
put myself first?
And for me, it was reallyunderstanding what my priorities
in life were.
And it also coincided with meturning 40 and having this kind
of midlife reset.
I'm going to invest in mywellness.
I'm going to invest in myrelationships.
One of the things that wasreally eye-opening was because I
(29:04):
traveled so much and myco-parent was the extrovert.
He defined our friendshipcircle.
He was the one that was like,oh, I made dinner plans with
whatever.
And I was just tagging along.
Coming out of the marriage, andit was also the pandemic, I
lifted my head and I had no one.
I had no friends.
(29:25):
Luckily, I had family that'slocal that really supported me,
but I didn't have thegirlfriends.
And I think it was just becauseI didn't invest in the
girlfriends.
I let it all happen.
And so one of the things that Idid was I invested a lot in
girlfriends, in relationships,in finding people that were in
(29:47):
the same storyline.
And I honestly think, Abby, Imanifested you, right?
I was probably, I think thiswas what, 22?
20, 22.
22, yeah.
So like I had been one yeardivorced, and I was really just
craving beautiful girlfriendships.
And you came into my life andwe just bonded over these life
(30:09):
experiences.
Right.
I did a lot of work on that.
And then I'd promised myselfthat I would always explore and
grow and have an open mind andknow that, yeah, if I could get
through this, like I can getthrough anything.
For my 40th, and to celebrategetting unmarried, I decided to
take a trip to Tanzania andclimb Kilimanjaro and do this
(30:34):
life-altering safari.
It was also the 10-yearanniversary of my dad passing,
and he actually grew up inTanzania.
And so it was just like thesebeautiful moments of rebirth and
re-establishing myself and justsaying, okay, this is a new
life, but it's a life that'sfilled with joy and love and
(30:56):
compassion and just making surethat I'm spending like the 2,000
weeks that I have left on thisearth.
Yeah, weeks left.
And in a very intentional,beautiful way that serves me.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
If if you could go back or talk to the you that was
in bed, crying, scared,nervous, anxious, angry, what
would this tell that, Morley?
Speaker (31:27):
No.
It's so interesting.
I would just give her a big hugand I would just say, You're
gonna like just flower throughthis, right?
And I knew this at the time.
I'm gonna be okay.
I have what's important here.
I'm gonna be okay.
But I think if I could go backand just wrap my arms around
that person and just pour asmuch love and say, Yeah, this is
(31:49):
important.
This is growth.
This is what you need tounderstand what is truly
important to you and to live alife full of joy and love in the
most, in the best way you can.
I think it would just be togive my love.
And I knew intuitively at thattime, because I had been in
other relationships nowhere aslong and as intense as a 10-year
(32:09):
marriage, but they I alwayscame out of them in this
renaissance where it became likefuel of this rebirth and this
regrowth.
I knew fundamentally that thatwould happen.
I felt in control of myrelationship with the co-parent
at every moment.
We never lost trust.
I was never wondering what wasgoing on.
(32:31):
And I will always be gratefulfor that because that took a lot
of courage on his part to showup and be honest the whole time
because it could have been avery different situation if he
wasn't as courageous.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yes.
Honesty is a gift.
I'll say in my own situation,he was not truly honest.
He never mentioned anythingabout an affair.
And it was all these otherreasons.
You're not this anymore, you'renot that anymore, you're not
this, you're not that.
For months, I carried around somuch guilt and pain.
(33:10):
Oh, Abby, if you would havedone this, or if you would have
done that, and just secondguessing myself all the time.
And it wasn't until I found outit was an affair that I was
like almost freed of thosefeelings of inadequacy, in which
I could say, oh no, it's notme.
It's about you.
(33:30):
As brutal as maybe it was tohear whatever he said.
Hopefully, for some listeners,the honesty is a gift as well.
Speaker (33:41):
Yeah.
And I think that's why myco-opar and I continue to have a
very positive, strongrelationship.
And through every step, likeagain, I am grateful that in
therapy he warned me that he wasgoing to propose.
And so when he did get engaged,we have a lot of mutual friends
reaching out and being like,How are you doing?
Are you okay?
And I'm like, Yeah, I'm okay.
(34:02):
I am very happy for him.
This is what he needs to behappy.
And selfishly, I need him, Iwant him to be happy because of
our two little humans.
And so I am grateful that I'venever been blindsided.
And that's a true gift that hegave me.
And it also forced me then.
I had to show up also and trulythink about what I needed.
(34:26):
And again, like mantra numberstwo was you are responsible for
your own happiness and your ownself.
You go get it, and you've gotthe blessing of the other person
to go after it.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Going through this process, what values
crystallized for you?
You mentioned your priorities.
What became crystal clear asgoing through this process?
Speaker (34:51):
Living your truth, right?
And being in your authenticself and what is serving you.
A key thing was when I lookedat my corporate job, I loved
that how stable it was, but itwas sucking the life force out
of me.
And I was still traveling everyother week.
Every single time I had to geton a plane and leave those two
babies, a part of me was likebeing wrenched out of me.
(35:16):
I didn't want to do thatanymore because I had the
courage from leaving themarriage.
I was like, I can leave this.
I'd always wanted to be anentrepreneur.
I did it cold turkey saying,I'll figure it out.
I don't know what that means,but I'll figure it out.
Making sure that always orleading with those priorities of
putting myself first, that it'snot selfish to have a nanny and
(35:38):
have a Saturday morning where Ican rest or go to yoga and have
someone else watch my children.
These are important thingsbecause you can't put yourself
first and you can't make surethat you are full and whole,
then you can't show up for thepeople that need you to be full
and whole.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
So you come out of this as a renaissance woman.
What gifts or opportunities didyour divorce bring you?
Speaker (36:08):
Just the courage to go out there and take risks and do
things.
If I had not gone through thedivorce or the unmarrying, I
would have never left my stablecorporate job and gone after
being an entrepreneur.
And I absolutely love it.
And it's my destiny.
And I love the control.
I am there for my kids.
(36:29):
I have time to pour into myrelationships.
And I can live my mission,which is to empower women,
through that, which I don't feellike I've ever lived in true
alignment with all of thatbefore when I was married.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
How does it feel to now have multiple sources of
fulfillment to live in yourtruths?
What does that feel like?
Speaker (36:56):
But it's still a constant struggle, right?
I still also give myself gracethat I'm human.
So, like when my co-parent didget engaged, there are feelings
of grief and annoyance and likenow we've got a co-parent
three-way.
There's still moments of that,but there's also this underlying
contentment of I'm not reachingfor an end.
(37:16):
I'm living in the everyday andappreciating it.
I think the resilience to getup each day and go through the
hard things and stay present andin the now and to process the
feelings that come with beinghuman, I wouldn't have been as
equipped had I not gone throughthat difficult transition, but
very um beneficial transition.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Resilience is the theme of this podcast.
So thank you for being myfriend, but then also for coming
on and sharing all of this.
Speaker (37:46):
You are very welcome.
I think this is an importantthing to share our stories with
other people.
I remember going through it andjust looking for any point of
connection or any point ofcommonality.
I listened to a lot of podcastswhen I was going through my
divorce, and there wasn't like aperfect match.
So again, listening to thesestories and being able to see,
(38:09):
okay, here's where I resonate,here is where I am, and then
seeing that people have movedthrough it and they are in a
much better position.
I think that's reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Thanks for listening to Bitter or Better, where we
turn heartbreak into healing andsurvival into strength.
As Brene Brown says,vulnerability is the last thing
we want to show, but the firstthing we look for in others.
That's what this is all about.
Real people showing up, sharingtheir stories, and reminding
the rest of us that we're notalone.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it with someone who
(38:41):
might need to hear it too.
And remember, you have a choicebetter or better.
See you next time for more realstories, real people, and real
resilience.
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