June 6, 2025 • 51 mins
This pour hits different. We’re diving into The Nightingale by Kristin Hannah—a story of two sisters just trying to survive Nazi-occupied France in their own powerful (and very different) ways.
In this episode, we’re talking about quiet strength, the weight of sacrifice, and how women have always been the backbone of resistance—even when nobody was watching. Expect some deep sips, a few unexpected laughs, and a lot of “whew” moments as we pull the layers back on love, war, and what it really means to endure.
As we pour into the layered emotions of love, betrayal, motherhood, and survival, the conversation drifts from history to home—how we carry burdens for others, how quiet rebellion reshapes futures, and how womanhood often requires a strength that has no name.
So pour something smooth, settle in, and join us as we toast the ones who made it through what couldn’t be said out loud.
✨
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Follow us on Facebook and IG @BlackGirlsLitPodcast for behind-the-scenes sips, book pairings, and all the lit energy.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
hey bookish baddies welcome to black girls lit where
fine women fine literature andfine libations collide step into
(00:22):
the lit life black girls litstarts now black women are so
complex Hey, y'all.
Welcome to Black Girls LitEpisode 3.
I am Natasha.
I'm Lex.
I'm Star.
And we are missing Nicole today,unfortunately.
However, as always, big ups toour girl.
(00:44):
We love Nicole.
Cheers.
All right.
So for our BGL cocktail of theweek, we will be having an
espresso martini.
Very popular right now.
All the girls are having them.
They say once you have one, youcan't stop.
The recipes for the espressomartini, we are doing cognac
(01:10):
today as our alcohol to featurethis month.
So in the espresso martini, wehave have the heine cognac with
a little bit of cool espresso,Kahlua, and simple syrup.
So cheers, ladies.
Hopefully y'all like it.
Clink, clink, clink.
(01:30):
It is quite tasty.
I actually like this better thanwith vodka.
Yeah, the cognac is, that's tea.
Much smoother.
So if y'all want to know whereall of these awesome BGL
cocktails of the month recipesare, you can follow us on our
social media accounts.
We are on Instagram, Facebook,and also TikTok.
(01:52):
Our Instagram handle isblackgirlslit1word underscore
podcast.
And Facebook isblackgirlslit1word podcast.
Follow us.
All right, now we social.
So this week, we're going to bediscussing the Nightingale by
Kristen Hanna.
Kristen is an award-winningauthor of over 20 novels.
(02:13):
Her work often focuses on womenand their central relationships,
familial, romantic.
Some of her most popular booksare The Women, The Great Alone,
and obviously the selection thatwe chose, The Nightingale.
The Nightingale is a story thattakes place during World War II
and delves into the lives of twosisters.
Kristen explores how each sisterapproaches war, love, and life
(02:36):
differently.
And boy, are they different.
Okay.
Of course, all the time, we gotto start with our book ratings.
As you know, we do cheers if welove it.
Sip if it's okay.
You know, we enjoyed it.
Babysit if it was a struggle toget through, but you did get
through it.
And then send it back.
If it was just like, just sendit back.
(02:57):
Like, please send it back.
Now, I know it's going to be ashock to everybody.
Not that she like everything.
I know.
And I do not want to be cliche,but I'm like, oh, this one I
100% give cheers to.
I'm sorry.
I've read several of her otherbooks and I do.
I'm a Kristen Hanna fan.
(03:18):
And The Nightingale was allright with me.
It's all cheers all day for me.
Lex?
You know, I think I'm going toagree with Tasha on this one.
This one is a cheers for me too.
It is a historical fiction.
So it is my first historicalfiction novel ever.
And it was really, really wellwritten.
(03:38):
I think Kristen...
was really detailed.
She really wanted us to seethings through her eyes during
that time.
It was a tearjerker.
There was romance a little bit.
There was conflict.
It was just very, very, verybeautifully written.
(03:58):
Top two for me on the mostbeautifully written books I've
read.
So, cheers.
I loved it.
And then there's me.
So clearly, clearly I'm theproblem and that's okay.
Definitely a babysit for me.
I do agree.
Let's very well written, verywell written.
(04:18):
And I'm going to leave thatthere.
We'll get into here very, veryshortly.
Why it was a babysit for me.
So, and with that, we'll go intoour first pairing.
So the first pairing that wehave is a Pierre Ferrand Cognac,
very popular in France.
(04:39):
And we are pairing it today withcoffee and butterscotch.
Pair with the Pierre Ferrand.
Oh, I thought it was either or.
I didn't know.
Either or.
Any of the candies.
Yeah.
Any of the candies.
All right.
And so while we're doing that,the Pierre Ferrand Cognac is a
rich fruit forward depth withbaking spices.
(05:02):
honeyed sweetness and aged woodelegance.
What were the notes in this one?
Was it supposed to be a sweeterone?
If it was, I almost feel like Igot the strong, like, it was a
very, like the burn of theKanye.
And I don't know if it's becausethis isn't chilled.
Y'all, we were, you know,usually you're supposed to have
(05:22):
these chilled.
But...
I feel like I only tasted burn.
I didn't actually taste theliquor.
Pierre was coming in a littlespicy for me.
Yeah.
Pierre was spicy.
I'm going to say the thing is,like the cognac for me, it's a
little bit stronger than what Iwas.
I was thinking something like alittle smoother.
It just, it had a little heat toit for me.
(05:42):
And I don't know that thebutterscotch like brought
anything out in it to make it,you know.
Tone it down.
Yeah.
Yes.
Normally our parents, you know,they...
You know, you're like, oh, youcan like taste something.
I said, it just, I got allburned.
It was definitely giving brownliquor burn.
You know, I'm just.
Yeah.
And I concur with thebutterscotch.
It's the same burn.
Very burny.
(06:03):
Yeah.
This one, I think, I feel likethis will be a good one.
Probably mixed.
Mixed.
Like the flavoring?
It's a little too much to justdrink it straight for me.
Yeah.
It's a burny one.
Yeah.
But it does taste good.
It has a good taste, as far asthe flavor of the toffee and the
butterscotch.
(06:23):
You can taste that sweetnessunder there, but it has a bite.
The sweetness was sort of, Ifeel like it was a little bit
hidden, like the love in thisstory.
Where was the light in thisstory?
Like the love in this story.
The sweet of this cognac wasmuch hidden in a similar way.
(06:44):
Now...
Do we disagree?
No.
So that takes us to our firstquestion, right?
Is it a love story or a warstory?
That was my first question tothe group.
And also the reason, the bigreason for me babysitting.
Because it was, yes, it was verywell written.
(07:08):
So much detail.
Yeah.
So much detail and time wentinto the development of the
setting.
The characters, even to someextent, to the point where I got
lost in it.
And I'm like, okay, well, is ita love story?
Or is it a war story?
(07:29):
What do you guys think?
How do you feel about that?
For me, there was no confusion.
It was like all war story forme.
Like, I...
I mean, the love story wasthere, but the whole thing was
focused on the war, the darknessof it, all of it.
(07:51):
I was a little bit like, Ithought they said it was a love
story.
Because that was very much justhidden for me.
It was not very much at theforefront at all.
And I completely disagree.
I feel like it went on and onand on about the people.
I didn't feel like we werereally in wartime or talking
(08:14):
about a war until almost the endfor me.
There were little things, but itjust, for me, I just was, it was
a lot of the relationships.
So maybe not, the lovingrelationships, but it was just a
lot for me in the relationships.
Like it was a, it was astruggle.
(08:35):
It was a struggle for me.
And I will say this though, inall fairness, in all fairness,
I'm going to date myself alittle bit.
I was expecting in my mind, Iwas comparing and somewhat
expecting something similar toAnne Frank's diary.
And it was not that.
So I think that is where for me,it went a little long.
(08:59):
in the character development andthe setting and the garden and
the thing.
It did give Anne Frank to me.
That whole thing was like, hey,this is...
You have a war going on, butwe're not on the front lines.
We're talking about what'shappening...
To the people.
Yeah.
Who are not...
(09:19):
To the civilians.
That's what we're...
I don't know.
I think...
I think one thing for y'all toknow, when I say y'all, I mean
our listeners.
Hello, listeners.
This book was about theHolocaust.
So it was very, very dark, very,very traumatic.
Like there was some in therethat I was like, all right, I
needed to put the book down andwalk away to process.
(09:43):
And so I found the portionswhere they did focus on The
romance between Vianne, that'sone of the sisters, and Gaetan.
That was her love interest,right?
Yes.
No, no.
It was Isabel and Gaetan.
Isabel and Gaetan.
I did find the moments wherethey allowed themselves to love
(10:06):
each other a little bit of aremedy.
to the heaviness of the book, itwas nice.
I liked that it kind of jumpedback and forth because in those
times where it was focusing onthem and the little scraps of a
relationship that they had, Iwas like, all right, at least
we're not talking aboutconcentration camps and mothers
(10:28):
getting taken away from theirkids, even if it's just for like
a page or a page and a half.
But I would definitely stillcharacterize this as a war story
overall 100 like i i don't knowwhat else so i'm getting ganged
up on and that's fine it's it'sfine this is what they do so
(10:52):
it's okay but but i did in infairness i did start off by
saying clearly i'm the problemand it was not it was a great
book It just wasn't what Iexpected.
Sometimes that's the thing.
That's fair.
So that was what threw me off alittle bit.
But very, very well written.
Like the detail.
(11:13):
And I felt like I was there.
Like I could visualize it.
And it's been a while since I'veread a book that put me there
mentally.
So I do definitely give a nod tothat.
Yeah, for sure.
The amount of detail.
I mean, like Lacey was saying,like...
Suddenly it was just heavy.
And I don't know if it was like,I felt it even more because I
definitely remember reading AnneFrank as a child.
(11:35):
And I mean, that definitelymoved me too.
And I don't know if it'sbecause, like I say, this just
felt very much almost like ofthe times now, you know, with
wars going on and stuff.
It was a lot.
And I was like, you can likevisualize like what's happening
to these people and like theslow, like unraveling of
civilization.
It was just...
(11:55):
It was a lot.
And that's why I was like, Ididn't even know when they had
time to fall in love becausethat just would not be where my
mind's at.
I'm like, we trying to survive.
Love you.
Kiss you.
Like, what?
I'm just trying to live.
When was the last time we took abath?
What?
Like, where's the...
I cannot.
And again, that is probablywhere it seemed like it was a
(12:18):
lot for me.
Like, it was a little too muchlove story for me because it was
extremely...
Unrealistic.
And I know people cope, youknow, when you're in traumatic
situations, you figure out howto cope and have a certain level
of realness or normalcy, right?
But not that.
(12:39):
Like, no.
So, anyhoo.
Okay, so for our next sip ofcognac, you know, we were trying
to make our way through thisbook, is...
H behind...
Actually, we did the HVSOP.
You know, we are VSOP folks inBlack Girls' Lits.
(13:00):
Big money.
And we're carrying that with agoat cheese and honey crostini.
Now, the honey and the goatcheese are supposed to work
alongside of the...
The natural caramel and woodyflavor in the cognac.
Hopefully these go together alittle bit better and do a
(13:22):
little bit more for bringing outnot only the creaminess of the
cheese, but also the caramelflavor in the cognac is what the
pairing is supposed to be.
So let's see how that works out.
How are we feeling about H byHein?
First of all, I will say I lovegoat cheese.
Anybody that's never had it, youshould absolutely try it.
(13:43):
You know what?
I almost feel like the cheese,this one doesn't burn like the
last one.
I don't know if it's just thealcohol or if it's the cheese,
but it's definitely much moremuted.
I'm getting a little burn, notas much.
The browns are going to be thebrowns, okay?
The brown liquor is going toshow up as a brown liquor every
(14:04):
time, which is like typically...
I read on New Brown, butsometimes, you know, when you
read like this heavy stuff, yougotta, we gonna go dark, we
gonna go dark liquor becauseit's a dark topic.
But I will say, I do prefer, Ilike this, I like the H.
It does not give as much burn.
Now, maybe because Pierre donealready muted all of my insides
(14:25):
and so I can't taste my...
Esophagus is scalding.
Right.
But the H is not giving the sameburn in...
Yeah, the goat cheese,Christina's, they giving
everything they were supposed togive.
I'm glad y'all like the goat.
It's good.
That was a cute pairing.
Okay, so the sisters, withoutgiving too much away, the
(14:45):
sisters, they definitelyapproached the war and the
situation very differently.
They're two clearly differentpeople.
I mean, not only do they have asignificant, they were like 10
years apart, you know, like onemarried, one single, but they
approached it very differently.
I'm team being straight up allday, every day.
I know that she made somequestionable choices.
She did some questionablethings.
(15:06):
But being like a wife, a mom,and sort of like I said, just
relating to her in a lot ofways.
Somebody who got married young,who is able to depend a lot on
their husband.
I feel like I was able to relateto her more and I could
understand a lot of the choicesand decisions she made.
So I do feel like I'm teamVianne.
I just feel like Isabel, Iunderstand things she did.
(15:28):
I understand some of the stuffshe did, but I also feel like
she was mad reckless.
She was.
I'm torn because, true, Vianne,right?
There's the mother in me.
So I understand a lot of thechoices she made thinking that
(15:49):
she was doing the right thing toprotect me.
the children.
In real life, I'm definitelyteam Isabel.
Like in real life, sometimes youhave to stand up for what you
believe in.
And sometimes doing that looksreckless.
(16:10):
But can you live with yourselfif you don't?
And I think for Isabel, that washer thing and who she was.
She was really a rebel at heart,right?
And that goes back to how theparts where they had to deal
with their upbringing and thatkind of, that process and how
they dealt with thatdifferently.
(16:32):
The loss and then their fatherkind of not being there.
Vianne had someone to go to andhelp her through that.
And Isabel didn't.
So I think that created thatrebellious spirit in her.
So...
In her mind, it was, she hadthis fight in her that had to
(16:54):
come out.
It had to, because that's just,it's who she was, right?
And she had to- She was nevergoing to go along to get along.
That part of her.
There was no part of her that isgo along to get along.
There's nothing in her thatwould even allow that to be her.
And I mean, in the beginning ofthe book, though, it also talks
about Isabel very much being oneof those girls who did not- She
(17:20):
was not a fan of the whole goingto school and learning to be
like a good wife.
And like she was kicked out ofevery academic institution she
went to.
Like she was not for that shit,like at all.
I think to your point, Star,like, yeah, their upbringings, I
think definitely played a rolein how they viewed like what was
(17:44):
going on at the time.
UNKNOWN (17:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
And also, I think some of it is just personality.
Some people, they're a littlemore meek, and they're a little
more like, okay.
And, okay, but let me try to,you know, soothe everybody, and
let me please everybody.
And then you have some peoplethat just, they here for the
rah-rah all day, every day.
Like, what?
Did she look at me?
No, right?
She look at you.
Like, what?
Yeah.
(18:06):
I mean, you know.
And I think, honestly,personally...
for me that's probably why I canrelate because there may be
maybe or not may have been atime or not or not allegedly
possibly I don't I'm just sayingnobody knows but yeah there's
(18:27):
somebody watching me now likeI'm an example to someone now so
I have to be a little bit moremindful of how I move and how I
react to certain things but I'mnot always the voice of reason
I'll just...
And that's okay.
Yeah, like I'm not always thevoice of reason.
In certain relationships, incertain settings, I can be and
definitely am.
(18:47):
But there's two sides to everycoin.
But in the world, and everyfriend group needs all of them.
We all need somebody that'sgoing to be like, hey, be the
voice of reason.
And we also need somebody to belike, man, did you see us?
You ain't see us?
You ain't...
I mean, are you going to comeget our check or not?
Like, what?
Oh, she don't want to get paidtoday, y'all.
Like, we all, we need, every,the world and every friend group
(19:11):
needs all of the differentcharacters to keep it moving.
Like, especially, I mean, me,because I am, I do tend to be
like a little bit more in thequiet side thing.
You know, I'm like, oh, I'mchill.
I appreciate all my rah-rahfriends.
I'm like, and I appreciate themmaking sure there ain't nobody
out in the world messing with uswhen we out here in these ATL
streets.
Right.
(19:31):
And the thing is, it can't betoo many rah-rahs at the same
time.
There always has to be abalance.
Really, you just need one.
In any group, you only need onerah-rah.
Everybody else has to be thevoice of reason.
So it's a real delicate balance,for sure.
But yes, Isabelle, that's mygirl.
(19:52):
If I have to choose one or theother, I'm going to ride with
Isabelle.
But this is the thing.
Don't you think, though, that...
Because it was just her.
I mean, not that, okay, youknow.
I mean, she does have family andstuff, but not having kids or
even not being in a husband orwhatever, there is like a
(20:13):
certain level.
You don't have to think aboutsomebody else.
When you are moving in theworld, when you have to put your
children...
First, you do have to makedecisions.
It may not be a decision youwant to make.
I mean, we look at some of thethings that Vian had to go
through.
Them definitely would not havebeen her first choice.
But if it's me or my kid...
But we don't know that Idon't...
(20:34):
In fact, she can draw a littlemore thugs to the game.
Yes.
There were opportunities for alittle more thugs.
I feel like there are somethings that children or not, she
would have made...
Those choices, passive choices.
Right.
And I mean, I think also, Ithink what both of y'all are
alluding to is at the end of theday, if we're just going to say
(20:54):
it blank, Vienne had a lot moreto lose than Isabel did.
This is true.
Because Isabel, I mean, for allintents and purposes, she was
abandoned.
And they talked about that atthe book.
They talked about how their dadwas messed up by the war and
wasn't there and how their momhad passed and how Vienne had
(21:17):
just kind of left and gotmarried at a very young age.
And, you know, so she wasabandoned.
And so I think...
that gives her the freedom to doa little more than Vianne could
do.
And I think that that'sdefinitely worth something.
However, I think I'm alsoleading a little bit more
(21:39):
towards Isabel, but I don't wantto invalidate Vianne's
experience because I do thinkthat she was in a very tough
position of like, how do youstill keep your...
what's remaining of yourchildren's innocence while also
trying to keep them safe.
And they're seeing crazy stuffoutside.
(22:00):
And so, like, what do you do tokeep the home safe while also
doing what you need to dooutside?
That makes all the sense in theworld, and I agree with that.
Here's my kind of final take onthat in perspective.
She thought that she wassheltering her daughter and
(22:21):
protecting her from somethingand keeping her from something.
But there's a point in the bookwhere her daughter has to kind
of let her know.
I understand.
I understand.
I've been understanding.
I see what's going on and kindof questioning and asking
questions because she had beenthere the whole time.
(22:43):
So she had been seeing all thethings and experiencing them.
And I think from thatperspective real world
perspective we can only shelterour children from so much
there's a point where it's arewe sheltering them or are we
conditioning them to be okaywith certain things and
(23:04):
behaviors and treatments you seewhat I'm saying so that's where
it was like well you thought oryou made these decisions and
choices to protect or shelterbut in the end, you didn't
shelter her.
Because she saw it.
She saw it all.
Like, she saw it all.
She had questions.
And because there wasn't thisopen dialogue, there was the
potential for some resentment.
(23:25):
A hundred percent.
Right?
And she ended up having to, youknow, they ended up having to
kind of come to an understandingabout the whys and different
things.
But...
I'll leave that there.
I won't get too deep into thethings.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think the last thing I'llsay about Vianne, because I did,
I don't know about y'all, Idefinitely wanted to strangle
(23:47):
her at the beginning, onlybecause I really did think she
was aloof.
I think she, at the verybeginning, I really do think
that she should have listened toher sister Isabel a little bit
more, because I feel like atthat time when things were
starting, it Isabelle was kindof at least trying to get her to
(24:08):
prepare for what was happening.
In Vienne, it almost seemed likeshe was like, just had blinders
on and was like, nope, it'snowhere near us.
We're good.
I don't have to hide my jewelry.
I don't have to get this bunkerready.
I don't have to do any of this.
And Isabelle is like, girl, doyou not understand like, Hitler
is at our back door.
(24:29):
Like, he's coming for us.
Like, he is coming for ourfriends.
He's coming for our family.
We need to protect ourselves.
And that was one thing that I,like, stood heavy with Isabel
with, because I still believethat if Vianne had listened to
her at the beginning, it wouldhave got bad.
It would have got nasty.
It would have got gnarly,because that's how that time
(24:50):
was.
But I do feel like they wouldhave been a little more prepared
for what was coming their way.
Well, I would to say a thingabout Vianne is, I don't even
say that she was aloof.
The thing is, she had alwaysbeen taken care of.
So when her father was no longerable to take care of her, then
she met the husband, and thehusband was taking care of her.
(25:12):
And then she also had the bestfriend that was kind of like,
hey, you know, she just alwaysbeen taken care of.
So what she was doing was like,I don't know, all I got to do is
keep it together till my mancome home.
Now when my man, my man, my mancome home, Oh, this is going to
be okay.
And I also think that no oneanticipates how long war is
going to be.
So it's like, hey, let me justkeep everything together for
(25:34):
this little bit.
He don't want to have to fight.
He'll be back here.
He'll be back home directly.
And my grandparents, he'll beback home directly.
Don't worry about it.
And so there was no part of herthat saw herself being in that
situation, having to makedecisions like this and all that
stuff.
For years, there was no way thatshe...
(25:54):
it was just inconceivable.
She could not even, there was nopart of her that even, there was
nothing.
And I think that sometimes wedon't realize one, how long wars
can last.
And also I said, what it meanslike to continue to like live in
that.
And then I was like, I think youdon't realize like what
(26:15):
sacrifices are going to have tomake.
And just like, you know, itjust, it was very tough, but
especially on someone who hadnever happened to really take
care of themselves.
Whereas Isabel, she's been outhere taking care of herself from
jump.
She's like, oh.
As soon as she realized thatpops had checked out, sister
really, she wasn't really goingto be able to depend on her.
Mom was gone.
She was like, okay, well, letme, because I mean, even not
(26:38):
even the school that she gotkicked out of, it was one that
she ran away from as a youngchild.
She was like, she's a preteen.
She's jumping on the to get backhome.
She was different.
She was.
Yeah, when she made that trek,the first one, the initial one,
I said, oh, girl, I would havebeen like, I'm going to be right
(26:59):
here.
I'm just going to be right here.
Whatever happens right here inthis space, this is where I'm
going to be.
I can't...
She was built different.
I mean, and not for nothing.
I mean, don't get me wrong,because again, I did say I'm
TMVing, you know, but...
definitely can appreciate thefact of the skill set and the
(27:22):
the mind of isabel and can wetalk about the way sis know how
to play her good looks like theway she don't like because the
thing she was able to do becauseshe was like oh watch a cute
girl get what she need doney'all hold on y'all hold my
beard hold on cute girl gonna becute out here get some work done
don't worry about it so idefinitely do admire her and i'm
(27:43):
in in being I can relate more tobeing more like being, I
definitely do look at people Iknow who are more Isabel.
And I'm like, and I admire that.
I think that, like my daughter,I definitely think my child is
more, she a little morerebellious, a little more like
pushing.
I love it about her.
I mean, of course, except forwhen it's directed at me, I'm
like, okay.
I love, I love that you're sucha, you're just so strong and
(28:05):
independent.
But tone it down.
Could you please just do what Itell you to do?
Like what?
Right.
UNKNOWN (28:09):
So,
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
But but for sure, for sure.
So let me ask you a question andthen sorry, we can we can move
on to the next thing.
So as far as your your co-hosts,if you had to be in or Isabel
us, where would you put Nicole,Lex and myself?
Oh, why?
That's a good question.
(28:30):
Because and the reason I'masking you specifically is
because.
you're here.
You're teetering a little.
If I had to say, let me see, whois who?
Okay, Star, you Isabel, becauseagain, you thuggish.
It is what it is.
I feel like I would say Nicoleis Isabel too.
(28:53):
I think she's more independent,but I don't know if it's because
she chooses to or because she'slike, hey, I'm going to get shit
done.
I want to say that Lex is being,but She, but she also is like, I
can't believe he didn't do that.
I can see that only because...
(29:15):
We're going to get off for justa second and I'm sorry.
So y'all remember, y'all seenBarbershop.
I think it's either one or two.
It was when Cedric theEntertainer's character did a
flashback to when he was like,it was like...
I think it was like a riotingperiod and he was in the shop
(29:36):
and all the Black rioters werelike trying to get hyped up and
they were like, yeah, we'regoing to do this.
And Cedric was like, yeah.
And then he's like, then we'regoing to kill some folks.
And he was like, hold on.
Right up in there.
And yeah, because I think that'sa fair assessment or like,
That's a fair call to make.
(29:57):
Because I do feel like there aresome things, yes, I simply could
not do without giving it away.
They had girly locked in thefreezer.
I'm sorry.
shoot me don't I can't don'ttorture me don't like that kind
(30:18):
of stuff yeah but the idea oflike a rebellion and being part
of something bigger and doingwhat you can to support and
getting the word out like Ithink activism looks differently
and so that Isabel's form ofactivism would not be my form,
but I do think something neededto be done.
(30:39):
And I can relate to that part ofIsabel.
Like, we're not just going tolet things go to shit just
because this is what we'reliving in.
Like, no, if I can do better,I'm going to see what I can do
to help.
That is true.
You are very much, hey, we goingto act right out here.
I feel like we have some sense.
She is.
(30:59):
We're going to respect people.
Definitely, I can definitely seethat rebellious part of you.
I don't know.
Maybe I just feel like it, butit is more like, you know, a
little more tame.
Yeah.
So I think it's fair.
I think it's fair.
You know, if I go back on it, Imay actually say that Nicole
might be being truthful.
(31:20):
I'm saying like, I don't want toknow because I see her, but that
just may be the role that I seeher in.
But She is also super, like,caretaker, like, and softer.
And, you know, I might have beenall wrong.
Not about you, though.
You definitely.
She said, but I do know.
That's Isabella.
(31:42):
I'm so, I mean, it's fine.
It's okay.
We are who we are.
Now, I will say this, like Isaid before, in different
settings, right?
I am what the time and thesituation calls for.
So whoever I, whatever role Ineed to play is the role that
I'm willing to and able to play.
And in this particular dynamic,I'll be the robber.
(32:04):
That's why.
So speaking of roles that needto be played, We're going to get
into this next question.
But first, we're going to do ourlast pairing here really quick.
So we are going to do Hennessy.
(32:25):
Hennessy VSOP.
VSOP.
I mean, you know, it's the VSOPfor me.
We're not regular Hennessy.
It has a very different taste.
I was not aware I have beencompletely against Hennessy for
some years.
Until you got the VSOP?
Until I tried the VSOP.
It was just giving realstereotype and I was resistant
(32:48):
to it, I think, for me.
But now I've Yeah, I'm on it.
It's a VSOP.
So a little bit about the VSOP.
This is a well-balanced cognacbecause we love everything
balanced.
Also, you're going to tastenotes of dried fruit, a little
bit of vanilla, oak spice, and alittle bit of nuttiness.
(33:13):
And today we are pairing theHennessy VOP with ginger snap
cookies.
UNKNOWN (33:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Love a good ginger snap.
I'm not real big on ginger snap.
I love ginger snap.
It's very much givinggrandmother to me.
And I've I'm not with it.
We're resistant to that.
No, not grandmother.
It's old age is what it'sgiving.
And that's what I think I'magainst.
I'm against being old.
(33:42):
It's so many things.
It's so many things happeningtoday.
It's all right.
We're doing our best, y'all.
All right.
Cling, cling to the HennessyVSOP with the ginger.
This is a very cozy pairing.
It's warm.
It's definitely giving, let'ssnuggle up by this fire and
finish reading my Nightingalebook while I sip on this
(34:04):
Hennessy BSOP and eat my gingersnaps.
I might even be reading a littlestory to my grandbabies.
You know, I may all of a suddenbe down with the ginger snaps at
that point.
I can see that.
Yeah, so you should be getting,the ginger snaps should be
bringing out the warm spices ofthe oak.
in the Hennessy VSOP.
(34:24):
I don't know what oak tasteslike.
However, this is good.
I like it.
And the VSOP, it's just not, theHennessy is not giving the same.
The only one that really gaveburn was that Pierre.
Pierre was, I do not know whyPierre come with the fire.
This is good.
I like this pairing.
This is cute.
I might actually like gingersnaps, too.
(34:46):
I really didn't think I did,though, to be honest.
I'm not a big ginger fan,though.
I do love ginger.
Love ginger.
See?
Uh-uh.
I'm not.
Beer, a ginger ale.
I don't like ginger beer.
No, I don't like any one ofthose.
You don't like ginger ale?
The cure-all of the blackpeople?
The cure-all?
Like what?
I drink it only when I have to.
Ginger ale.
Only when I have to.
Don't make ginger ale.
Only when I have to.
(35:07):
I don't like a mule.
I don't like a Moscow mule.
I'm not into ginger.
I'm really not.
Learning so much about Tashatoday, y'all.
Okay, well, while we're snackingon our ginger snaps and sipping
our Hennessy, we're going totalk a little bit about Beck.
And to give you all somebackground on to who Beck is...
(35:29):
Beck was a soldier that wasassigned to live at VN's house
during wartime.
That was a common thing duringthat time.
Soldiers would just come up andbe like, hey, I live here now.
And that is what happened withBeck.
But the thing about Beck ishe...
I think he was trying to decidewhat role he wanted to play in
(35:52):
this war.
However, he happened to be asoldier, so he had to...
he felt that he had to followsome of the orders that he was
given.
So just a little bit about Beck.
So the question is, so Beck didnot seem to agree with what was
happening.
And again, Beck was a Germansoldier.
(36:14):
So even though he didn't agree,he did continue to follow
orders, and those orders rangedfrom beating women and children
to...
getting lists, if you will, ofpeople who should be gathered.
So it's a very extreme side.
What do you think our role is ashumans when it comes to knowing
(36:36):
what's right and what isn'tright?
Are we just going to followorders, even though we know
that's not necessarily somethingthat aligns with our values?
Or are we going to Or are wegoing to do what we feel is
right?
When do your values come intoplay?
(36:56):
Like, how are we feeling aboutthat when we're in hard
situations?
I feel like it's very difficultto just say, I mean, because the
right answer is no, you're goingto do what's right.
Right.
But when it's like, I think whathappens is it comes down to,
well...
your family or my family.
And then it starts to get like alittle sketchier and you start
(37:19):
to get scared.
And I think you start moving alittle bit differently, which
is, I mean, that's unfortunate.
That shouldn't be the way it is,but there you're going to have
natural human instincts to, um,of protection.
You know what I mean?
So the answer is no, youdefinitely, you know, something
is wrong.
You better do what's right.
You know, Hey, you can't, youcan't be out here just watching
(37:40):
somebody getting hauled awaythat, you know, had a bit, you
know, getting haunted that you,and you don't step in and say
something, but then, okay, wellyou, but then there's part of
you that's like, well, I'm notgoing to be able to stop them.
All that's going to end uphappening is they're going to
haul them away and me and mineaway too.
So what do I do?
And that's an impossiblesituation.
Right.
And I thought that to me, that'swhat the whole book felt like.
(38:00):
It's just a whole bunch ofimpossible choices.
Like there was like, I don'teven know at any point in the
book, any of the choices thatwere presented, if there was
anyone that was right or wrong,they were all like that.
It was all like impossible.
Like, okay, well, I guess it'sthe least wrong.
Like, I don't know.
Now, I will say, and I bet hepissed me off, because I'm
just...
At some point, you got to belike, okay, but...
(38:21):
You got to stand up.
And there was a lot of Germansoldiers that did not agree with
what they were doing, but yetthey did it.
And you just kind of feel like,well, if all of y'all just be
like, hey, if all of us don'tfollow one person, if all
thousands of us be like, bro,you want one?
Like, ah, you're tripping.
Then maybe it wouldn't have hadto been no years long of...
(38:44):
World War.
It could have been like, hey,y'all, we were going to put down
our guns because we was like,nah, this some BS.
I don't know.
Like, they can't fire us alltype thing.
It's easier said than done,right?
Because that's always thenarrative.
Time after time after time.
From...
the Holocaust and this war tothe civil rights movement, to
(39:06):
the NFL boycotts and things likethat, right?
It's always the one day targetAmazon boycotts, whatever it is.
It's always their strength innumbers.
We know their strength innumbers, but who's gonna go
first?
And then who's gonna go second,right?
Like, okay, y'all all gonna gofor real?
(39:26):
Like, okay, one, two, three.
You know, there's that wholedynamic, right?
of like, well, y'all said thisis what we gonna do, but I
really don't know y'all.
So I really don't trust you todo the things, right?
That we said we're gonna do.
So then everybody ends upwaiting for somebody else And
it's like, well, I was waiting.
Like, come on.
Nothing.
(39:46):
The hundred man versus gorilla.
Ain't that the thing?
Are we all looking like theSpider-Man?
I can't even be overly involvedwith social media.
So if I expand, I'm just like, Ican't.
But here's the other part too,that with Beck, there's Beck as
the person, the man, thehusband, the father.
(40:10):
And we saw that.
And he showed his compassion andhe showed, you know, his human
nature and his caring.
But we have to remember he was asoldier.
And that's the same thing whenyou think about what the armed
forces is even today and whatthe military is today.
(40:30):
Like you sign on the line.
Like when you sign on thatdotted line, your personal
values and morals, like you signup to be a soldier, right?
That means you sign up to dowhat you're told to do when
you're told to do it.
Nobody, you don't sign thatdotted line.
Like you don't go and sit downwith a recruiter and they say,
(40:51):
so, hey, we know that you'reinterested in this and there's a
lot of benefits.
And if we ask you to do this,we're going to be okay if that
doesn't align with your personalvalues and morals.
You'll have the option to say,no, I don't agree with that.
I don't want to do that.
Like, That's not the nature ofthe military, the armed forces
(41:13):
being a soldier.
That's not what it is.
You sign up and hopefully you'renot in wartime, but if you are,
guess what?
Nobody's asking your opinionlike, hey, so we're about to
have to go clear out this townand round up these mothers and
children because the men aregone.
So there's no men because we'vealready sent them off.
(41:36):
But we're about to go round upthese women and children.
You good with that?
Or do you need to sit this oneout?
You know what I'm saying?
It's not that.
So unfortunately, I think forhim...
It was that and we got to seethat duality that I signed up to
(41:57):
do this.
So this is the thing I have todo because if he didn't, then it
was, oh, his life is on theline.
But I got a wife and a childthat I'm trying to make it back
home to after this is all overas well.
So if it's me or you, it's you.
UNKNOWN (42:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:16):
You see what I'm saying?
And that's just...
That's not so hard.
But that's human nature.
That's real.
And war is harsh.
There's nothing pretty and cuteabout war.
That's why I was so irritatedabout the intertwining of the
love story.
Like, come on.
I can't process that.
(42:36):
I can't see that.
But I do commend him for themoments where he was...
because he didn't have to be.
And that was, I think, in thosemoments where we got to see who
he really was.
And then the contradiction, ofcourse, was when he got called
(42:58):
to the carpet and it was like,oh, you might be a part of the
problem.
Like, how did this happen onyour watch?
Now everybody's coming down onhim.
He made compassion out thewindow.
Right?
Because now it's not ahypothetical now.
Now we're down at the wire andit's either I produce this
(43:21):
person or they're coming for me.
So at that point, he wasn'ttrying to hear nothing.
The end was saying he wasn'tbelieving nothing.
Like I air all this shit out.
Like I'm clear all this out.
Move that, move this, move that.
Like, nah, you compassion over,right?
Because now I can't choose youover me and the family that I
(43:44):
have waiting for me.
I don't think there's any realquestion.
Like it sounds good and it's theright thing to say like, oh, I'm
always going to do what's rightbecause right is right and wrong
is wrong.
But really when it come down toit, that human nature to survive
like kicks in and you never knowwhat choice is.
(44:07):
Right.
And that's why I think thatsometimes people, they just
like, yo, we at war.
I mean, I think that they don'tunderstand exactly what that
means, what they look like,especially if it's at your front
door.
If it's, hey, if your kids aregoing to school, your kid's
trying to go to church, and ooh,mom's dropping to church.
Your kid in the hospitalbecause, hey, they got an
(44:28):
infection.
They got to have a tonsillectomytoday.
And people bombing the hospital.
Like, you just, I think peopledon't really fully understand
what that means.
I'm just, that's what, I'm kindof like, I say that's this book,
reading this book at this time,when there are actual wars going
on, like around the world.
So it just, it would just hit alittle too hard for me just
because it's like, for real,like you out here just trying
(44:48):
like to live and life keepsgoing on.
Like I said, kids, kids got togo to the hospital.
Kid, you mean?
And I, what do I take my kid tohospital?
They got infection, but we knowthat hospitals getting bombed on
a regular, like, what do you do?
Like it's, Yeah.
And it feels like at this pointin the year of 2025, we should
(45:09):
have a better way to solve ourproblems.
Like, is we, is we really havingwar, y'all?
Like, is we, we've not evolved?
Like, that's kind of how I befeeling.
And that's, I think a lot ofthis book I spent just thinking
about current, I just keptdrawing it to current times.
And I feel like that's why I wasjust like so in it and just so
like, oh my God, is we reallylike, y'all for real?
There's no better way To solveproblems.
(45:32):
Well, it's a difference.
And I already think I'm on thelist.
So I'm definitely not going togo too far down this rabbit
hole.
But look, from a historicalfiction standpoint.
Here we go.
This particular war, right?
That this story references.
And other wars are aboutdifferent things.
(45:56):
So you have religious wars.
And then you have this...
I don't know what thisparticular war was about, right?
There was someone that was inpower and just got a lot of
other individuals to believe intheir belief system, right?
And act out the things that thisperson was wishing.
(46:18):
But present day, it tends to bemore about resources than actual
conflict.
UNKNOWN (46:26):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
Or even, you know, ideology or anything like that.
So I think there's something tobe said about that.
When you say, is this the onlyway that we have to solve our
problems?
I think we have to take a stepback and look at what's the
actual problem?
Because sometimes in recenttimes, the actual problem is
(46:51):
that we want what you have.
And what do you mean?
No, I can't have it.
I think that's the root of allof us.
Manifest destiny.
Manifest destiny.
I feel like I have the right tohave what you have.
And if you don't want it, guesswhat?
I'll kill your whole family.
Literally.
So, it's a little bit different.
(47:14):
I feel you.
I'm so mind-blown by theinhumanity of humans.
Because I still know how youcould look at another...
life and just treat them likethey are not a child of God.
And that may come from mynaivete.
(47:37):
You know, I'm right here.
Like, you know, I be sittingthere playing with my little
rose tinted glasses.
And so I'd be like, I'd be realbaffled by human behavior
sometimes.
Like, but for sure, for real,like this.
This is what we're doing?
This is what we're doing?
Yeah.
Do bad humans exist?
Yes.
Yes.
Bad humans exist.
You're right.
(47:57):
You're right.
Yeah.
So.
Well, yeah, yeah.
But y'all have got to read thebook.
Because we only, we only skimmedthe surface.
It is a must read for sure.
And even, even with the Basiesitting, it is definitely a must
read.
It is a must-read.
But I will say it's aone-time...
(48:19):
Well, for me, it's a one-timeread because I won't be picking
that book up again.
No, it was too much.
It was too much.
I won't be picking it up again.
One was enough.
One was enough.
Okay.
What I will pick up again isthat Hennessy VSP.
That might be in regular summerrotation, you know.
I will pick the VSOP thatHennessy...
(48:41):
We may be all right.
I'm going to say my favoritepairing was the...
hind with the goat cheese.
That was mine.
But was it the hind or was itthe goat cheese that got you?
It was probably the goat cheesethat got me.
Can't go wrong with that.
Because you can't go wrong withit.
And then the little honeydrizzle on there.
She made it look cute.
If you guys could see the littleplate, legs hooked up with like
(49:04):
a crostini with a goat cheese,with like the little decorative
little honey sprawled on it.
You know, she did her thing.
It looks very pleasing.
Yes.
So, sometimes, you know, westart eating with our eyes.
So maybe that, you know, youlook at It was like, oh yeah,
this is it.
But it's for smoothness factor,the BSOP.
I mean, I can give or take theginger snap cookies.
(49:25):
I mean, I just, give me a littlebit of the Hennessy BSOP.
Put me a couple rocks in therewith a little lime squeeze, you
know.
That's hilarious.
Tosh gonna be all right.
Yeah, I think we can dosomething with that, Pierre.
We're just gonna have to mix it.
Yeah, we're gonna have to toneit down.
Pierre, we're gonna have to tonehim down.
Yeah.
Bye.
For sure.
Well, as usual, we're going toleave you with our outro.
(49:50):
And this week, we're going to doa quote from the book.
And we're going to actuallyclose with the narrator's
opening statement.
And that is, if I have learnedanything in this long life of
mine, it is, in love, we findout who we want to be.
(50:10):
In war, we find out who we are.
Cheers, ladies.
Cheers.
Until next time, ladies.
Cling, cling, cling.
And next time we'll be reviewingWish You Had Told Me by Zeena
Patel.
So.
See you around the book stalls.
All right.
Before we leave, though, I'mgoing to plug our social medias
(50:31):
one more time.
If you're not following us,follow us.
Instagram, Black Girls Lit OneWord underscore podcast.
Facebook, Black Girls Lit OneWord podcast.
You will also find us on Spotifyand Apple Podcasts.
(50:51):
If for no other reason than toget this espresso martini recipe
because baby it's the winner forsure
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
thank you for listening to the black girls lit
podcast join us for our nextpour and our next page wish you
had told me by zeena patel makesure to like subscribe comment
and follow
hey bookish baddies welcome to black girls lit where
fine women fine literature andfine libations collide step into
(00:22):
the lit life black girls litstarts now black women are so
complex Hey, y'all.
Welcome to Black Girls LitEpisode 3.
I am Natasha.
I'm Lex.
I'm Star.
And we are missing Nicole today,unfortunately.
However, as always, big ups toour girl.
(00:44):
We love Nicole.
Cheers.
All right.
So for our BGL cocktail of theweek, we will be having an
espresso martini.
Very popular right now.
All the girls are having them.
They say once you have one, youcan't stop.
The recipes for the espressomartini, we are doing cognac
(01:10):
today as our alcohol to featurethis month.
So in the espresso martini, wehave have the heine cognac with
a little bit of cool espresso,Kahlua, and simple syrup.
So cheers, ladies.
Hopefully y'all like it.
Clink, clink, clink.
(01:30):
It is quite tasty.
I actually like this better thanwith vodka.
Yeah, the cognac is, that's tea.
Much smoother.
So if y'all want to know whereall of these awesome BGL
cocktails of the month recipesare, you can follow us on our
social media accounts.
We are on Instagram, Facebook,and also TikTok.
(01:52):
Our Instagram handle isblackgirlslit1word underscore
podcast.
And Facebook isblackgirlslit1word podcast.
Follow us.
All right, now we social.
So this week, we're going to bediscussing the Nightingale by
Kristen Hanna.
Kristen is an award-winningauthor of over 20 novels.
(02:13):
Her work often focuses on womenand their central relationships,
familial, romantic.
Some of her most popular booksare The Women, The Great Alone,
and obviously the selection thatwe chose, The Nightingale.
The Nightingale is a story thattakes place during World War II
and delves into the lives of twosisters.
Kristen explores how each sisterapproaches war, love, and life
(02:36):
differently.
And boy, are they different.
Okay.
Of course, all the time, we gotto start with our book ratings.
As you know, we do cheers if welove it.
Sip if it's okay.
You know, we enjoyed it.
Babysit if it was a struggle toget through, but you did get
through it.
And then send it back.
If it was just like, just sendit back.
(02:57):
Like, please send it back.
Now, I know it's going to be ashock to everybody.
Not that she like everything.
I know.
And I do not want to be cliche,but I'm like, oh, this one I
100% give cheers to.
I'm sorry.
I've read several of her otherbooks and I do.
I'm a Kristen Hanna fan.
(03:18):
And The Nightingale was allright with me.
It's all cheers all day for me.
Lex?
You know, I think I'm going toagree with Tasha on this one.
This one is a cheers for me too.
It is a historical fiction.
So it is my first historicalfiction novel ever.
And it was really, really wellwritten.
(03:38):
I think Kristen...
was really detailed.
She really wanted us to seethings through her eyes during
that time.
It was a tearjerker.
There was romance a little bit.
There was conflict.
It was just very, very, verybeautifully written.
(03:58):
Top two for me on the mostbeautifully written books I've
read.
So, cheers.
I loved it.
And then there's me.
So clearly, clearly I'm theproblem and that's okay.
Definitely a babysit for me.
I do agree.
Let's very well written, verywell written.
(04:18):
And I'm going to leave thatthere.
We'll get into here very, veryshortly.
Why it was a babysit for me.
So, and with that, we'll go intoour first pairing.
So the first pairing that wehave is a Pierre Ferrand Cognac,
very popular in France.
(04:39):
And we are pairing it today withcoffee and butterscotch.
Pair with the Pierre Ferrand.
Oh, I thought it was either or.
I didn't know.
Either or.
Any of the candies.
Yeah.
Any of the candies.
All right.
And so while we're doing that,the Pierre Ferrand Cognac is a
rich fruit forward depth withbaking spices.
(05:02):
honeyed sweetness and aged woodelegance.
What were the notes in this one?
Was it supposed to be a sweeterone?
If it was, I almost feel like Igot the strong, like, it was a
very, like the burn of theKanye.
And I don't know if it's becausethis isn't chilled.
Y'all, we were, you know,usually you're supposed to have
(05:22):
these chilled.
But...
I feel like I only tasted burn.
I didn't actually taste theliquor.
Pierre was coming in a littlespicy for me.
Yeah.
Pierre was spicy.
I'm going to say the thing is,like the cognac for me, it's a
little bit stronger than what Iwas.
I was thinking something like alittle smoother.
It just, it had a little heat toit for me.
(05:42):
And I don't know that thebutterscotch like brought
anything out in it to make it,you know.
Tone it down.
Yeah.
Yes.
Normally our parents, you know,they...
You know, you're like, oh, youcan like taste something.
I said, it just, I got allburned.
It was definitely giving brownliquor burn.
You know, I'm just.
Yeah.
And I concur with thebutterscotch.
It's the same burn.
Very burny.
(06:03):
Yeah.
This one, I think, I feel likethis will be a good one.
Probably mixed.
Mixed.
Like the flavoring?
It's a little too much to justdrink it straight for me.
Yeah.
It's a burny one.
Yeah.
But it does taste good.
It has a good taste, as far asthe flavor of the toffee and the
butterscotch.
(06:23):
You can taste that sweetnessunder there, but it has a bite.
The sweetness was sort of, Ifeel like it was a little bit
hidden, like the love in thisstory.
Where was the light in thisstory?
Like the love in this story.
The sweet of this cognac wasmuch hidden in a similar way.
(06:44):
Now...
Do we disagree?
No.
So that takes us to our firstquestion, right?
Is it a love story or a warstory?
That was my first question tothe group.
And also the reason, the bigreason for me babysitting.
Because it was, yes, it was verywell written.
(07:08):
So much detail.
Yeah.
So much detail and time wentinto the development of the
setting.
The characters, even to someextent, to the point where I got
lost in it.
And I'm like, okay, well, is ita love story?
Or is it a war story?
(07:29):
What do you guys think?
How do you feel about that?
For me, there was no confusion.
It was like all war story forme.
Like, I...
I mean, the love story wasthere, but the whole thing was
focused on the war, the darknessof it, all of it.
(07:51):
I was a little bit like, Ithought they said it was a love
story.
Because that was very much justhidden for me.
It was not very much at theforefront at all.
And I completely disagree.
I feel like it went on and onand on about the people.
I didn't feel like we werereally in wartime or talking
(08:14):
about a war until almost the endfor me.
There were little things, but itjust, for me, I just was, it was
a lot of the relationships.
So maybe not, the lovingrelationships, but it was just a
lot for me in the relationships.
Like it was a, it was astruggle.
(08:35):
It was a struggle for me.
And I will say this though, inall fairness, in all fairness,
I'm going to date myself alittle bit.
I was expecting in my mind, Iwas comparing and somewhat
expecting something similar toAnne Frank's diary.
And it was not that.
So I think that is where for me,it went a little long.
(08:59):
in the character development andthe setting and the garden and
the thing.
It did give Anne Frank to me.
That whole thing was like, hey,this is...
You have a war going on, butwe're not on the front lines.
We're talking about what'shappening...
To the people.
Yeah.
Who are not...
(09:19):
To the civilians.
That's what we're...
I don't know.
I think...
I think one thing for y'all toknow, when I say y'all, I mean
our listeners.
Hello, listeners.
This book was about theHolocaust.
So it was very, very dark, very,very traumatic.
Like there was some in therethat I was like, all right, I
needed to put the book down andwalk away to process.
(09:43):
And so I found the portionswhere they did focus on The
romance between Vianne, that'sone of the sisters, and Gaetan.
That was her love interest,right?
Yes.
No, no.
It was Isabel and Gaetan.
Isabel and Gaetan.
I did find the moments wherethey allowed themselves to love
(10:06):
each other a little bit of aremedy.
to the heaviness of the book, itwas nice.
I liked that it kind of jumpedback and forth because in those
times where it was focusing onthem and the little scraps of a
relationship that they had, Iwas like, all right, at least
we're not talking aboutconcentration camps and mothers
(10:28):
getting taken away from theirkids, even if it's just for like
a page or a page and a half.
But I would definitely stillcharacterize this as a war story
overall 100 like i i don't knowwhat else so i'm getting ganged
up on and that's fine it's it'sfine this is what they do so
(10:52):
it's okay but but i did in infairness i did start off by
saying clearly i'm the problemand it was not it was a great
book It just wasn't what Iexpected.
Sometimes that's the thing.
That's fair.
So that was what threw me off alittle bit.
But very, very well written.
Like the detail.
(11:13):
And I felt like I was there.
Like I could visualize it.
And it's been a while since I'veread a book that put me there
mentally.
So I do definitely give a nod tothat.
Yeah, for sure.
The amount of detail.
I mean, like Lacey was saying,like...
Suddenly it was just heavy.
And I don't know if it was like,I felt it even more because I
definitely remember reading AnneFrank as a child.
(11:35):
And I mean, that definitelymoved me too.
And I don't know if it'sbecause, like I say, this just
felt very much almost like ofthe times now, you know, with
wars going on and stuff.
It was a lot.
And I was like, you can likevisualize like what's happening
to these people and like theslow, like unraveling of
civilization.
It was just...
(11:55):
It was a lot.
And that's why I was like, Ididn't even know when they had
time to fall in love becausethat just would not be where my
mind's at.
I'm like, we trying to survive.
Love you.
Kiss you.
Like, what?
I'm just trying to live.
When was the last time we took abath?
What?
Like, where's the...
I cannot.
And again, that is probablywhere it seemed like it was a
(12:18):
lot for me.
Like, it was a little too muchlove story for me because it was
extremely...
Unrealistic.
And I know people cope, youknow, when you're in traumatic
situations, you figure out howto cope and have a certain level
of realness or normalcy, right?
But not that.
(12:39):
Like, no.
So, anyhoo.
Okay, so for our next sip ofcognac, you know, we were trying
to make our way through thisbook, is...
H behind...
Actually, we did the HVSOP.
You know, we are VSOP folks inBlack Girls' Lits.
(13:00):
Big money.
And we're carrying that with agoat cheese and honey crostini.
Now, the honey and the goatcheese are supposed to work
alongside of the...
The natural caramel and woodyflavor in the cognac.
Hopefully these go together alittle bit better and do a
(13:22):
little bit more for bringing outnot only the creaminess of the
cheese, but also the caramelflavor in the cognac is what the
pairing is supposed to be.
So let's see how that works out.
How are we feeling about H byHein?
First of all, I will say I lovegoat cheese.
Anybody that's never had it, youshould absolutely try it.
(13:43):
You know what?
I almost feel like the cheese,this one doesn't burn like the
last one.
I don't know if it's just thealcohol or if it's the cheese,
but it's definitely much moremuted.
I'm getting a little burn, notas much.
The browns are going to be thebrowns, okay?
The brown liquor is going toshow up as a brown liquor every
(14:04):
time, which is like typically...
I read on New Brown, butsometimes, you know, when you
read like this heavy stuff, yougotta, we gonna go dark, we
gonna go dark liquor becauseit's a dark topic.
But I will say, I do prefer, Ilike this, I like the H.
It does not give as much burn.
Now, maybe because Pierre donealready muted all of my insides
(14:25):
and so I can't taste my...
Esophagus is scalding.
Right.
But the H is not giving the sameburn in...
Yeah, the goat cheese,Christina's, they giving
everything they were supposed togive.
I'm glad y'all like the goat.
It's good.
That was a cute pairing.
Okay, so the sisters, withoutgiving too much away, the
(14:45):
sisters, they definitelyapproached the war and the
situation very differently.
They're two clearly differentpeople.
I mean, not only do they have asignificant, they were like 10
years apart, you know, like onemarried, one single, but they
approached it very differently.
I'm team being straight up allday, every day.
I know that she made somequestionable choices.
She did some questionablethings.
(15:06):
But being like a wife, a mom,and sort of like I said, just
relating to her in a lot ofways.
Somebody who got married young,who is able to depend a lot on
their husband.
I feel like I was able to relateto her more and I could
understand a lot of the choicesand decisions she made.
So I do feel like I'm teamVianne.
I just feel like Isabel, Iunderstand things she did.
(15:28):
I understand some of the stuffshe did, but I also feel like
she was mad reckless.
She was.
I'm torn because, true, Vianne,right?
There's the mother in me.
So I understand a lot of thechoices she made thinking that
(15:49):
she was doing the right thing toprotect me.
the children.
In real life, I'm definitelyteam Isabel.
Like in real life, sometimes youhave to stand up for what you
believe in.
And sometimes doing that looksreckless.
(16:10):
But can you live with yourselfif you don't?
And I think for Isabel, that washer thing and who she was.
She was really a rebel at heart,right?
And that goes back to how theparts where they had to deal
with their upbringing and thatkind of, that process and how
they dealt with thatdifferently.
(16:32):
The loss and then their fatherkind of not being there.
Vianne had someone to go to andhelp her through that.
And Isabel didn't.
So I think that created thatrebellious spirit in her.
So...
In her mind, it was, she hadthis fight in her that had to
(16:54):
come out.
It had to, because that's just,it's who she was, right?
And she had to- She was nevergoing to go along to get along.
That part of her.
There was no part of her that isgo along to get along.
There's nothing in her thatwould even allow that to be her.
And I mean, in the beginning ofthe book, though, it also talks
about Isabel very much being oneof those girls who did not- She
(17:20):
was not a fan of the whole goingto school and learning to be
like a good wife.
And like she was kicked out ofevery academic institution she
went to.
Like she was not for that shit,like at all.
I think to your point, Star,like, yeah, their upbringings, I
think definitely played a rolein how they viewed like what was
(17:44):
going on at the time.
UNKNOWN (17:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
And also, I think some of it is just personality.
Some people, they're a littlemore meek, and they're a little
more like, okay.
And, okay, but let me try to,you know, soothe everybody, and
let me please everybody.
And then you have some peoplethat just, they here for the
rah-rah all day, every day.
Like, what?
Did she look at me?
No, right?
She look at you.
Like, what?
Yeah.
(18:06):
I mean, you know.
And I think, honestly,personally...
for me that's probably why I canrelate because there may be
maybe or not may have been atime or not or not allegedly
possibly I don't I'm just sayingnobody knows but yeah there's
(18:27):
somebody watching me now likeI'm an example to someone now so
I have to be a little bit moremindful of how I move and how I
react to certain things but I'mnot always the voice of reason
I'll just...
And that's okay.
Yeah, like I'm not always thevoice of reason.
In certain relationships, incertain settings, I can be and
definitely am.
(18:47):
But there's two sides to everycoin.
But in the world, and everyfriend group needs all of them.
We all need somebody that'sgoing to be like, hey, be the
voice of reason.
And we also need somebody to belike, man, did you see us?
You ain't see us?
You ain't...
I mean, are you going to comeget our check or not?
Like, what?
Oh, she don't want to get paidtoday, y'all.
Like, we all, we need, every,the world and every friend group
(19:11):
needs all of the differentcharacters to keep it moving.
Like, especially, I mean, me,because I am, I do tend to be
like a little bit more in thequiet side thing.
You know, I'm like, oh, I'mchill.
I appreciate all my rah-rahfriends.
I'm like, and I appreciate themmaking sure there ain't nobody
out in the world messing with uswhen we out here in these ATL
streets.
Right.
(19:31):
And the thing is, it can't betoo many rah-rahs at the same
time.
There always has to be abalance.
Really, you just need one.
In any group, you only need onerah-rah.
Everybody else has to be thevoice of reason.
So it's a real delicate balance,for sure.
But yes, Isabelle, that's mygirl.
(19:52):
If I have to choose one or theother, I'm going to ride with
Isabelle.
But this is the thing.
Don't you think, though, that...
Because it was just her.
I mean, not that, okay, youknow.
I mean, she does have family andstuff, but not having kids or
even not being in a husband orwhatever, there is like a
(20:13):
certain level.
You don't have to think aboutsomebody else.
When you are moving in theworld, when you have to put your
children...
First, you do have to makedecisions.
It may not be a decision youwant to make.
I mean, we look at some of thethings that Vian had to go
through.
Them definitely would not havebeen her first choice.
But if it's me or my kid...
But we don't know that Idon't...
(20:34):
In fact, she can draw a littlemore thugs to the game.
Yes.
There were opportunities for alittle more thugs.
I feel like there are somethings that children or not, she
would have made...
Those choices, passive choices.
Right.
And I mean, I think also, Ithink what both of y'all are
alluding to is at the end of theday, if we're just going to say
(20:54):
it blank, Vienne had a lot moreto lose than Isabel did.
This is true.
Because Isabel, I mean, for allintents and purposes, she was
abandoned.
And they talked about that atthe book.
They talked about how their dadwas messed up by the war and
wasn't there and how their momhad passed and how Vienne had
(21:17):
just kind of left and gotmarried at a very young age.
And, you know, so she wasabandoned.
And so I think...
that gives her the freedom to doa little more than Vianne could
do.
And I think that that'sdefinitely worth something.
However, I think I'm alsoleading a little bit more
(21:39):
towards Isabel, but I don't wantto invalidate Vianne's
experience because I do thinkthat she was in a very tough
position of like, how do youstill keep your...
what's remaining of yourchildren's innocence while also
trying to keep them safe.
And they're seeing crazy stuffoutside.
(22:00):
And so, like, what do you do tokeep the home safe while also
doing what you need to dooutside?
That makes all the sense in theworld, and I agree with that.
Here's my kind of final take onthat in perspective.
She thought that she wassheltering her daughter and
(22:21):
protecting her from somethingand keeping her from something.
But there's a point in the bookwhere her daughter has to kind
of let her know.
I understand.
I understand.
I've been understanding.
I see what's going on and kindof questioning and asking
questions because she had beenthere the whole time.
(22:43):
So she had been seeing all thethings and experiencing them.
And I think from thatperspective real world
perspective we can only shelterour children from so much
there's a point where it's arewe sheltering them or are we
conditioning them to be okaywith certain things and
(23:04):
behaviors and treatments you seewhat I'm saying so that's where
it was like well you thought oryou made these decisions and
choices to protect or shelterbut in the end, you didn't
shelter her.
Because she saw it.
She saw it all.
Like, she saw it all.
She had questions.
And because there wasn't thisopen dialogue, there was the
potential for some resentment.
(23:25):
A hundred percent.
Right?
And she ended up having to, youknow, they ended up having to
kind of come to an understandingabout the whys and different
things.
But...
I'll leave that there.
I won't get too deep into thethings.
Yeah, for sure.
And I think the last thing I'llsay about Vianne, because I did,
I don't know about y'all, Idefinitely wanted to strangle
(23:47):
her at the beginning, onlybecause I really did think she
was aloof.
I think she, at the verybeginning, I really do think
that she should have listened toher sister Isabel a little bit
more, because I feel like atthat time when things were
starting, it Isabelle was kindof at least trying to get her to
(24:08):
prepare for what was happening.
In Vienne, it almost seemed likeshe was like, just had blinders
on and was like, nope, it'snowhere near us.
We're good.
I don't have to hide my jewelry.
I don't have to get this bunkerready.
I don't have to do any of this.
And Isabelle is like, girl, doyou not understand like, Hitler
is at our back door.
(24:29):
Like, he's coming for us.
Like, he is coming for ourfriends.
He's coming for our family.
We need to protect ourselves.
And that was one thing that I,like, stood heavy with Isabel
with, because I still believethat if Vianne had listened to
her at the beginning, it wouldhave got bad.
It would have got nasty.
It would have got gnarly,because that's how that time
(24:50):
was.
But I do feel like they wouldhave been a little more prepared
for what was coming their way.
Well, I would to say a thingabout Vianne is, I don't even
say that she was aloof.
The thing is, she had alwaysbeen taken care of.
So when her father was no longerable to take care of her, then
she met the husband, and thehusband was taking care of her.
(25:12):
And then she also had the bestfriend that was kind of like,
hey, you know, she just alwaysbeen taken care of.
So what she was doing was like,I don't know, all I got to do is
keep it together till my mancome home.
Now when my man, my man, my mancome home, Oh, this is going to
be okay.
And I also think that no oneanticipates how long war is
going to be.
So it's like, hey, let me justkeep everything together for
(25:34):
this little bit.
He don't want to have to fight.
He'll be back here.
He'll be back home directly.
And my grandparents, he'll beback home directly.
Don't worry about it.
And so there was no part of herthat saw herself being in that
situation, having to makedecisions like this and all that
stuff.
For years, there was no way thatshe...
(25:54):
it was just inconceivable.
She could not even, there was nopart of her that even, there was
nothing.
And I think that sometimes wedon't realize one, how long wars
can last.
And also I said, what it meanslike to continue to like live in
that.
And then I was like, I think youdon't realize like what
(26:15):
sacrifices are going to have tomake.
And just like, you know, itjust, it was very tough, but
especially on someone who hadnever happened to really take
care of themselves.
Whereas Isabel, she's been outhere taking care of herself from
jump.
She's like, oh.
As soon as she realized thatpops had checked out, sister
really, she wasn't really goingto be able to depend on her.
Mom was gone.
She was like, okay, well, letme, because I mean, even not
(26:38):
even the school that she gotkicked out of, it was one that
she ran away from as a youngchild.
She was like, she's a preteen.
She's jumping on the to get backhome.
She was different.
She was.
Yeah, when she made that trek,the first one, the initial one,
I said, oh, girl, I would havebeen like, I'm going to be right
(26:59):
here.
I'm just going to be right here.
Whatever happens right here inthis space, this is where I'm
going to be.
I can't...
She was built different.
I mean, and not for nothing.
I mean, don't get me wrong,because again, I did say I'm
TMVing, you know, but...
definitely can appreciate thefact of the skill set and the
(27:22):
the mind of isabel and can wetalk about the way sis know how
to play her good looks like theway she don't like because the
thing she was able to do becauseshe was like oh watch a cute
girl get what she need doney'all hold on y'all hold my
beard hold on cute girl gonna becute out here get some work done
don't worry about it so idefinitely do admire her and i'm
(27:43):
in in being I can relate more tobeing more like being, I
definitely do look at people Iknow who are more Isabel.
And I'm like, and I admire that.
I think that, like my daughter,I definitely think my child is
more, she a little morerebellious, a little more like
pushing.
I love it about her.
I mean, of course, except forwhen it's directed at me, I'm
like, okay.
I love, I love that you're sucha, you're just so strong and
(28:05):
independent.
But tone it down.
Could you please just do what Itell you to do?
Like what?
Right.
UNKNOWN (28:09):
So,
SPEAKER_01 (28:10):
But but for sure, for sure.
So let me ask you a question andthen sorry, we can we can move
on to the next thing.
So as far as your your co-hosts,if you had to be in or Isabel
us, where would you put Nicole,Lex and myself?
Oh, why?
That's a good question.
(28:30):
Because and the reason I'masking you specifically is
because.
you're here.
You're teetering a little.
If I had to say, let me see, whois who?
Okay, Star, you Isabel, becauseagain, you thuggish.
It is what it is.
I feel like I would say Nicoleis Isabel too.
(28:53):
I think she's more independent,but I don't know if it's because
she chooses to or because she'slike, hey, I'm going to get shit
done.
I want to say that Lex is being,but She, but she also is like, I
can't believe he didn't do that.
I can see that only because...
(29:15):
We're going to get off for justa second and I'm sorry.
So y'all remember, y'all seenBarbershop.
I think it's either one or two.
It was when Cedric theEntertainer's character did a
flashback to when he was like,it was like...
I think it was like a riotingperiod and he was in the shop
(29:36):
and all the Black rioters werelike trying to get hyped up and
they were like, yeah, we'regoing to do this.
And Cedric was like, yeah.
And then he's like, then we'regoing to kill some folks.
And he was like, hold on.
Right up in there.
And yeah, because I think that'sa fair assessment or like,
That's a fair call to make.
(29:57):
Because I do feel like there aresome things, yes, I simply could
not do without giving it away.
They had girly locked in thefreezer.
I'm sorry.
shoot me don't I can't don'ttorture me don't like that kind
(30:18):
of stuff yeah but the idea oflike a rebellion and being part
of something bigger and doingwhat you can to support and
getting the word out like Ithink activism looks differently
and so that Isabel's form ofactivism would not be my form,
but I do think something neededto be done.
(30:39):
And I can relate to that part ofIsabel.
Like, we're not just going tolet things go to shit just
because this is what we'reliving in.
Like, no, if I can do better,I'm going to see what I can do
to help.
That is true.
You are very much, hey, we goingto act right out here.
I feel like we have some sense.
She is.
(30:59):
We're going to respect people.
Definitely, I can definitely seethat rebellious part of you.
I don't know.
Maybe I just feel like it, butit is more like, you know, a
little more tame.
Yeah.
So I think it's fair.
I think it's fair.
You know, if I go back on it, Imay actually say that Nicole
might be being truthful.
(31:20):
I'm saying like, I don't want toknow because I see her, but that
just may be the role that I seeher in.
But She is also super, like,caretaker, like, and softer.
And, you know, I might have beenall wrong.
Not about you, though.
You definitely.
She said, but I do know.
That's Isabella.
(31:42):
I'm so, I mean, it's fine.
It's okay.
We are who we are.
Now, I will say this, like Isaid before, in different
settings, right?
I am what the time and thesituation calls for.
So whoever I, whatever role Ineed to play is the role that
I'm willing to and able to play.
And in this particular dynamic,I'll be the robber.
(32:04):
That's why.
So speaking of roles that needto be played, We're going to get
into this next question.
But first, we're going to do ourlast pairing here really quick.
So we are going to do Hennessy.
(32:25):
Hennessy VSOP.
VSOP.
I mean, you know, it's the VSOPfor me.
We're not regular Hennessy.
It has a very different taste.
I was not aware I have beencompletely against Hennessy for
some years.
Until you got the VSOP?
Until I tried the VSOP.
It was just giving realstereotype and I was resistant
(32:48):
to it, I think, for me.
But now I've Yeah, I'm on it.
It's a VSOP.
So a little bit about the VSOP.
This is a well-balanced cognacbecause we love everything
balanced.
Also, you're going to tastenotes of dried fruit, a little
bit of vanilla, oak spice, and alittle bit of nuttiness.
(33:13):
And today we are pairing theHennessy VOP with ginger snap
cookies.
UNKNOWN (33:20):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Love a good ginger snap.
I'm not real big on ginger snap.
I love ginger snap.
It's very much givinggrandmother to me.
And I've I'm not with it.
We're resistant to that.
No, not grandmother.
It's old age is what it'sgiving.
And that's what I think I'magainst.
I'm against being old.
(33:42):
It's so many things.
It's so many things happeningtoday.
It's all right.
We're doing our best, y'all.
All right.
Cling, cling to the HennessyVSOP with the ginger.
This is a very cozy pairing.
It's warm.
It's definitely giving, let'ssnuggle up by this fire and
finish reading my Nightingalebook while I sip on this
(34:04):
Hennessy BSOP and eat my gingersnaps.
I might even be reading a littlestory to my grandbabies.
You know, I may all of a suddenbe down with the ginger snaps at
that point.
I can see that.
Yeah, so you should be getting,the ginger snaps should be
bringing out the warm spices ofthe oak.
in the Hennessy VSOP.
(34:24):
I don't know what oak tasteslike.
However, this is good.
I like it.
And the VSOP, it's just not, theHennessy is not giving the same.
The only one that really gaveburn was that Pierre.
Pierre was, I do not know whyPierre come with the fire.
This is good.
I like this pairing.
This is cute.
I might actually like gingersnaps, too.
(34:46):
I really didn't think I did,though, to be honest.
I'm not a big ginger fan,though.
I do love ginger.
Love ginger.
See?
Uh-uh.
I'm not.
Beer, a ginger ale.
I don't like ginger beer.
No, I don't like any one ofthose.
You don't like ginger ale?
The cure-all of the blackpeople?
The cure-all?
Like what?
I drink it only when I have to.
Ginger ale.
Only when I have to.
Don't make ginger ale.
Only when I have to.
(35:07):
I don't like a mule.
I don't like a Moscow mule.
I'm not into ginger.
I'm really not.
Learning so much about Tashatoday, y'all.
Okay, well, while we're snackingon our ginger snaps and sipping
our Hennessy, we're going totalk a little bit about Beck.
And to give you all somebackground on to who Beck is...
(35:29):
Beck was a soldier that wasassigned to live at VN's house
during wartime.
That was a common thing duringthat time.
Soldiers would just come up andbe like, hey, I live here now.
And that is what happened withBeck.
But the thing about Beck ishe...
I think he was trying to decidewhat role he wanted to play in
(35:52):
this war.
However, he happened to be asoldier, so he had to...
he felt that he had to followsome of the orders that he was
given.
So just a little bit about Beck.
So the question is, so Beck didnot seem to agree with what was
happening.
And again, Beck was a Germansoldier.
(36:14):
So even though he didn't agree,he did continue to follow
orders, and those orders rangedfrom beating women and children
to...
getting lists, if you will, ofpeople who should be gathered.
So it's a very extreme side.
What do you think our role is ashumans when it comes to knowing
(36:36):
what's right and what isn'tright?
Are we just going to followorders, even though we know
that's not necessarily somethingthat aligns with our values?
Or are we going to Or are wegoing to do what we feel is
right?
When do your values come intoplay?
(36:56):
Like, how are we feeling aboutthat when we're in hard
situations?
I feel like it's very difficultto just say, I mean, because the
right answer is no, you're goingto do what's right.
Right.
But when it's like, I think whathappens is it comes down to,
well...
your family or my family.
And then it starts to get like alittle sketchier and you start
(37:19):
to get scared.
And I think you start moving alittle bit differently, which
is, I mean, that's unfortunate.
That shouldn't be the way it is,but there you're going to have
natural human instincts to, um,of protection.
You know what I mean?
So the answer is no, youdefinitely, you know, something
is wrong.
You better do what's right.
You know, Hey, you can't, youcan't be out here just watching
(37:40):
somebody getting hauled awaythat, you know, had a bit, you
know, getting haunted that you,and you don't step in and say
something, but then, okay, wellyou, but then there's part of
you that's like, well, I'm notgoing to be able to stop them.
All that's going to end uphappening is they're going to
haul them away and me and mineaway too.
So what do I do?
And that's an impossiblesituation.
Right.
And I thought that to me, that'swhat the whole book felt like.
(38:00):
It's just a whole bunch ofimpossible choices.
Like there was like, I don'teven know at any point in the
book, any of the choices thatwere presented, if there was
anyone that was right or wrong,they were all like that.
It was all like impossible.
Like, okay, well, I guess it'sthe least wrong.
Like, I don't know.
Now, I will say, and I bet hepissed me off, because I'm
just...
At some point, you got to belike, okay, but...
(38:21):
You got to stand up.
And there was a lot of Germansoldiers that did not agree with
what they were doing, but yetthey did it.
And you just kind of feel like,well, if all of y'all just be
like, hey, if all of us don'tfollow one person, if all
thousands of us be like, bro,you want one?
Like, ah, you're tripping.
Then maybe it wouldn't have hadto been no years long of...
(38:44):
World War.
It could have been like, hey,y'all, we were going to put down
our guns because we was like,nah, this some BS.
I don't know.
Like, they can't fire us alltype thing.
It's easier said than done,right?
Because that's always thenarrative.
Time after time after time.
From...
the Holocaust and this war tothe civil rights movement, to
(39:06):
the NFL boycotts and things likethat, right?
It's always the one day targetAmazon boycotts, whatever it is.
It's always their strength innumbers.
We know their strength innumbers, but who's gonna go
first?
And then who's gonna go second,right?
Like, okay, y'all all gonna gofor real?
(39:26):
Like, okay, one, two, three.
You know, there's that wholedynamic, right?
of like, well, y'all said thisis what we gonna do, but I
really don't know y'all.
So I really don't trust you todo the things, right?
That we said we're gonna do.
So then everybody ends upwaiting for somebody else And
it's like, well, I was waiting.
Like, come on.
Nothing.
(39:46):
The hundred man versus gorilla.
Ain't that the thing?
Are we all looking like theSpider-Man?
I can't even be overly involvedwith social media.
So if I expand, I'm just like, Ican't.
But here's the other part too,that with Beck, there's Beck as
the person, the man, thehusband, the father.
(40:10):
And we saw that.
And he showed his compassion andhe showed, you know, his human
nature and his caring.
But we have to remember he was asoldier.
And that's the same thing whenyou think about what the armed
forces is even today and whatthe military is today.
(40:30):
Like you sign on the line.
Like when you sign on thatdotted line, your personal
values and morals, like you signup to be a soldier, right?
That means you sign up to dowhat you're told to do when
you're told to do it.
Nobody, you don't sign thatdotted line.
Like you don't go and sit downwith a recruiter and they say,
(40:51):
so, hey, we know that you'reinterested in this and there's a
lot of benefits.
And if we ask you to do this,we're going to be okay if that
doesn't align with your personalvalues and morals.
You'll have the option to say,no, I don't agree with that.
I don't want to do that.
Like, That's not the nature ofthe military, the armed forces
(41:13):
being a soldier.
That's not what it is.
You sign up and hopefully you'renot in wartime, but if you are,
guess what?
Nobody's asking your opinionlike, hey, so we're about to
have to go clear out this townand round up these mothers and
children because the men aregone.
So there's no men because we'vealready sent them off.
(41:36):
But we're about to go round upthese women and children.
You good with that?
Or do you need to sit this oneout?
You know what I'm saying?
It's not that.
So unfortunately, I think forhim...
It was that and we got to seethat duality that I signed up to
(41:57):
do this.
So this is the thing I have todo because if he didn't, then it
was, oh, his life is on theline.
But I got a wife and a childthat I'm trying to make it back
home to after this is all overas well.
So if it's me or you, it's you.
UNKNOWN (42:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:16):
You see what I'm saying?
And that's just...
That's not so hard.
But that's human nature.
That's real.
And war is harsh.
There's nothing pretty and cuteabout war.
That's why I was so irritatedabout the intertwining of the
love story.
Like, come on.
I can't process that.
(42:36):
I can't see that.
But I do commend him for themoments where he was...
because he didn't have to be.
And that was, I think, in thosemoments where we got to see who
he really was.
And then the contradiction, ofcourse, was when he got called
(42:58):
to the carpet and it was like,oh, you might be a part of the
problem.
Like, how did this happen onyour watch?
Now everybody's coming down onhim.
He made compassion out thewindow.
Right?
Because now it's not ahypothetical now.
Now we're down at the wire andit's either I produce this
(43:21):
person or they're coming for me.
So at that point, he wasn'ttrying to hear nothing.
The end was saying he wasn'tbelieving nothing.
Like I air all this shit out.
Like I'm clear all this out.
Move that, move this, move that.
Like, nah, you compassion over,right?
Because now I can't choose youover me and the family that I
(43:44):
have waiting for me.
I don't think there's any realquestion.
Like it sounds good and it's theright thing to say like, oh, I'm
always going to do what's rightbecause right is right and wrong
is wrong.
But really when it come down toit, that human nature to survive
like kicks in and you never knowwhat choice is.
(44:07):
Right.
And that's why I think thatsometimes people, they just
like, yo, we at war.
I mean, I think that they don'tunderstand exactly what that
means, what they look like,especially if it's at your front
door.
If it's, hey, if your kids aregoing to school, your kid's
trying to go to church, and ooh,mom's dropping to church.
Your kid in the hospitalbecause, hey, they got an
(44:28):
infection.
They got to have a tonsillectomytoday.
And people bombing the hospital.
Like, you just, I think peopledon't really fully understand
what that means.
I'm just, that's what, I'm kindof like, I say that's this book,
reading this book at this time,when there are actual wars going
on, like around the world.
So it just, it would just hit alittle too hard for me just
because it's like, for real,like you out here just trying
(44:48):
like to live and life keepsgoing on.
Like I said, kids, kids got togo to the hospital.
Kid, you mean?
And I, what do I take my kid tohospital?
They got infection, but we knowthat hospitals getting bombed on
a regular, like, what do you do?
Like it's, Yeah.
And it feels like at this pointin the year of 2025, we should
(45:09):
have a better way to solve ourproblems.
Like, is we, is we really havingwar, y'all?
Like, is we, we've not evolved?
Like, that's kind of how I befeeling.
And that's, I think a lot ofthis book I spent just thinking
about current, I just keptdrawing it to current times.
And I feel like that's why I wasjust like so in it and just so
like, oh my God, is we reallylike, y'all for real?
There's no better way To solveproblems.
(45:32):
Well, it's a difference.
And I already think I'm on thelist.
So I'm definitely not going togo too far down this rabbit
hole.
But look, from a historicalfiction standpoint.
Here we go.
This particular war, right?
That this story references.
And other wars are aboutdifferent things.
(45:56):
So you have religious wars.
And then you have this...
I don't know what thisparticular war was about, right?
There was someone that was inpower and just got a lot of
other individuals to believe intheir belief system, right?
And act out the things that thisperson was wishing.
(46:18):
But present day, it tends to bemore about resources than actual
conflict.
UNKNOWN (46:26):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
Or even, you know, ideology or anything like that.
So I think there's something tobe said about that.
When you say, is this the onlyway that we have to solve our
problems?
I think we have to take a stepback and look at what's the
actual problem?
Because sometimes in recenttimes, the actual problem is
(46:51):
that we want what you have.
And what do you mean?
No, I can't have it.
I think that's the root of allof us.
Manifest destiny.
Manifest destiny.
I feel like I have the right tohave what you have.
And if you don't want it, guesswhat?
I'll kill your whole family.
Literally.
So, it's a little bit different.
(47:14):
I feel you.
I'm so mind-blown by theinhumanity of humans.
Because I still know how youcould look at another...
life and just treat them likethey are not a child of God.
And that may come from mynaivete.
(47:37):
You know, I'm right here.
Like, you know, I be sittingthere playing with my little
rose tinted glasses.
And so I'd be like, I'd be realbaffled by human behavior
sometimes.
Like, but for sure, for real,like this.
This is what we're doing?
This is what we're doing?
Yeah.
Do bad humans exist?
Yes.
Yes.
Bad humans exist.
You're right.
(47:57):
You're right.
Yeah.
So.
Well, yeah, yeah.
But y'all have got to read thebook.
Because we only, we only skimmedthe surface.
It is a must read for sure.
And even, even with the Basiesitting, it is definitely a must
read.
It is a must-read.
But I will say it's aone-time...
(48:19):
Well, for me, it's a one-timeread because I won't be picking
that book up again.
No, it was too much.
It was too much.
I won't be picking it up again.
One was enough.
One was enough.
Okay.
What I will pick up again isthat Hennessy VSP.
That might be in regular summerrotation, you know.
I will pick the VSOP thatHennessy...
(48:41):
We may be all right.
I'm going to say my favoritepairing was the...
hind with the goat cheese.
That was mine.
But was it the hind or was itthe goat cheese that got you?
It was probably the goat cheesethat got me.
Can't go wrong with that.
Because you can't go wrong withit.
And then the little honeydrizzle on there.
She made it look cute.
If you guys could see the littleplate, legs hooked up with like
(49:04):
a crostini with a goat cheese,with like the little decorative
little honey sprawled on it.
You know, she did her thing.
It looks very pleasing.
Yes.
So, sometimes, you know, westart eating with our eyes.
So maybe that, you know, youlook at It was like, oh yeah,
this is it.
But it's for smoothness factor,the BSOP.
I mean, I can give or take theginger snap cookies.
(49:25):
I mean, I just, give me a littlebit of the Hennessy BSOP.
Put me a couple rocks in therewith a little lime squeeze, you
know.
That's hilarious.
Tosh gonna be all right.
Yeah, I think we can dosomething with that, Pierre.
We're just gonna have to mix it.
Yeah, we're gonna have to toneit down.
Pierre, we're gonna have to tonehim down.
Yeah.
Bye.
For sure.
Well, as usual, we're going toleave you with our outro.
(49:50):
And this week, we're going to doa quote from the book.
And we're going to actuallyclose with the narrator's
opening statement.
And that is, if I have learnedanything in this long life of
mine, it is, in love, we findout who we want to be.
(50:10):
In war, we find out who we are.
Cheers, ladies.
Cheers.
Until next time, ladies.
Cling, cling, cling.
And next time we'll be reviewingWish You Had Told Me by Zeena
Patel.
So.
See you around the book stalls.
All right.
Before we leave, though, I'mgoing to plug our social medias
(50:31):
one more time.
If you're not following us,follow us.
Instagram, Black Girls Lit OneWord underscore podcast.
Facebook, Black Girls Lit OneWord podcast.
You will also find us on Spotifyand Apple Podcasts.
(50:51):
If for no other reason than toget this espresso martini recipe
because baby it's the winner forsure
SPEAKER_00 (51:01):
thank you for listening to the black girls lit
podcast join us for our nextpour and our next page wish you
had told me by zeena patel makesure to like subscribe comment
and follow
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