May 6, 2025 • 54 mins
We’re throwing it back to our most downloaded episode of all time—a powerful and eye-opening yarn with proud Kabi Kabi and South Sea Islander man, Isaac Harrison.
Isaac shares his deeply personal story—his family’s roots in blackbirding and survival, his experience navigating identity across cultures, and his remarkable journey from the sugar cane fields of his ancestors to founding one of Australia’s most exciting renewable energy companies, Bunji Energy. We also talk about intergenerational wealth gaps, the legacy of slavery in Queensland, and how love and resilience continue to shape our communities.
This episode is rich with truth-telling, laughter, and vision—highlighting the strength of Blak entrepreneurship, the importance of cultural grounding, and why we must invest in First Nations youth and futures on our terms
Recommendations throughout this episode:
https://deadlydiscussionspodcast.com
http://bunjilenergy.com.au
Website: www.blackmagicwoman.com.au
Follow us on Instagram - @blackmagicwomanpodcast
The Black Magic Woman Podcast is hosted by Mundanara Bayles and is an uplifting conversational style program featuring mainly Aboriginal guests and explores issues of importance to Aboriginal people and communities. Mundanara is guided by Aboriginal Terms of Reference and focusses more on who people are rather than on what they do.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode is proudly sponsored by Indigenous Business Australia, who
serves partners and invests with Aboriginal and torrest right island
of people who want to own their own future. Welcome
to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bails.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Us Aboriginal people.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Regardless of title. You know, relationalism not war making.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's the best way to have secure.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Is the best time to be a black color, specially
in business, so powerful the successful Ariiginal women.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I am a survivor of the stolen generations.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'd like to begin this podcast by acknowledging the kubby
cubby and gubby gubby peoples here on the Sunshine Coast.
I'd like to also pay my respects and acknowledge their
elder's past and present, and extend my acknowledgment of traditional
owners right across this country. From wherever this podcast has
been listened to, Welcome to the IBA Partnership Series, Podcast
(01:02):
number three. We've got another special guest joining us today,
and as always, you know, we're we're having conversations about
who we are, where we come from, what our experiences
have been like growing up in this country, in particular
as black fellows in this country now known as Australia.
(01:24):
And also you know why we do what we do.
So I just want to say welcome to the Black
Magic Woman podcast. Isaac. It's great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, and Gora and one yard, so hello and welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You know, Copic cover country some copy copies, so you know,
welcome to yourself, and thank you so much for hosting
on our beautiful land. Like to refer to it as
God's country, which stares up the rest of the mob.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But no, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
No whereas it or so Isaac Harrison tell us, tell
us a little bit about yourself. You know, obviously you
you're a covey coby man. But yeah, you know you
do your introduction for our.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You know. It's funny when you say introductions because it
always depends on who's in the room with, you know,
depending on the setting. You know, last night I was
at an event in the mp there for our Eridana
and Kabula. His heritage's kanaka, but he doesn't he can't
(02:27):
tie generation back from his father. So he got this heritage,
but he doesn't know the connection. So when I'm talking
to him, I talk more about my South Islander heritage
and bridge that connection. So yeah, my grandfather was a
covercoming man. His grandfather married into He was taken from
(02:47):
Veduatu in the South Islands, processed and the Torres Straits
and brought down a courtesy of the CSR Colony or
sugar refinery and the Queensland government called blackbirding and sent
out to work cut caine bill railroads, chop wood. And
he married into so you know, gorgeous kubby cubby woman
caught his eye. And I married into the kubby cubby nation,
(03:12):
in particular Numbi clan, which is the word meaning people
of salt and fresh water. And so that's Grandad's side
and then Nna's bury Berry go so from up north,
so you know, people know the smaller family and all that.
That's all my bloodline there. But he used to live
up there for a while. But I grew up in
(03:33):
Harvey Bay. So I was born in Merraborough, so in
the Fraser Coast. So you know, small, smaller coastal town.
Not much to do, I suppose, but do you know
fishing and whale watching. So as soon as I got
my license, I headed to the Big Smoke in Brizzy
and that's where I did my education and then I
(03:54):
eventually fail to call him back to country, so black Swan,
Muchendor where I did my trade as well, and then
I ended up in the renewable sector, which is pretty
much people know me from Bunol Energy, my company that
I founded and recently exited.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But I'm sure we'll probably get to that further.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But yes, I'm Kebe Cubbybury Government and my father's Anglo Australian,
so English. His heritage comes from Yorkshire in England, so
I've looked up a bit of that ancestry too, which
is pretty interesting. Yeah, that's that's me.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So which way you come from? Big family, your brothers
and sisters, your children, you're married, what else?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, so then you know, let's say ten ten children,
so we're you know, fifty something cousins first cousins. So
just on one side, I married my beautiful wife. She's
a Melbourne girl. And so when I moved down to
Melbourne that six seven years ago, i met her down there.
(04:54):
I was playing I played did you do for professionally?
For a house band, so you know that sort.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
For a house band.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, that sat out in the bush douff doffs, you know,
they love it.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So it's it's good fun that the DJ of the group,
he's an older fella, he was good. He's good mates
Digery stew and Oka. Uh okay, I can't, I can't
from pronounce it's not Oka. But so you go way back,
you know, music festival. So he's like in his fifties.
So they had a bit of a renaissance and they said, hey,
(05:30):
you know, you're not bad at the hit, you want
to come and play.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And so it turned out and became a new ditch player.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So it has such a great experience, you know, because
you come from country Queensland and you end up and
uh Victoria that in regional very you know, progressive is different.
It's just different, you know, good different, you know, because
you experience so many different elements of life. But but yeah,
so Mar and my wive to little Jarge, a four
(05:57):
year old gone under five and my little titty girl,
she's the big boss.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
She's two gone on the three.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
The youngest is the youngest is always the boss of
the house, right, Yes, in black families, I think people
spin out when I talk about that delivering training. How
tiger Lily, the youngest of five. You know, she's going
on fourteen, but she literally runs the house. She's the boss,
and she'll tell you she's the boss.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And she's got the nice big chubb of cheeks, chubble legs,
brown scared and go with it. And my wife, her
father's actually South Indian, so he's from Bangalore and he
married Anglo lady, Ossie Anglo when he migrated to Australia,
so we got that Indian culture too, which is something
(06:48):
really important for me. When I was looking for a spouse,
something I always wanted was someone who had a bit
of culture in their background so they could understand some
of the complexities with our culture.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well they could, they kind of just well not slot
into our family, but I guess it makes it a
bit easier for them to be part of our family
to understand, like you said, to understand some of those complexities.
It's more of a not a smoother transition, but it's easier.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
When from conversations, a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, you don't have to explain too much of your
culture because usually, especially with Indian culture, there's a lot
of similarities, right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, that's it. I think.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know, the studies show about our DNA being linked
closely to Sri Lanka, South India and then over to
Africa many thousands of years ago, and so there's some similarities.
And when I got to know Larichi nation for different
trips a lot of Sri Lankan South Indian, then they
(07:54):
love like black fil pulpit because it's just to them
it feels like home, having family around a meal and
so it's always interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
So yeah, I'm kids.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I got blackfellow South Island Indian and white Sox
to deadly.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I want to go back to the South Sea Islander
part of your culture, your family history there. In terms
of when you mentioned CSR the colonial Sugar Refinery, I
did not know that that's what is that what CSI
really stands for.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, you double Wikipedia, you'll be able to find it.
So well.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Today, literally two hours ago, I shared an article on
my Facebook page from the Conversation and the article title
is from the Caribbean to Queensland. I think I saw
that re examining Australia's blackbirding past and its roots in
the global slave trade. Yep, so for people that are
(08:53):
not too familiar with this, you know, going back to
the eighteen forties. I was, I was just reading it today.
So it's amazing you and I have in this yarn today.
I did not know that they went beyond places like Vanuatu,
that they actually did steal. You know, obviously people slaves,
(09:14):
indentured labor from the Caribbean as well. In Brisbane at
the Botanic Gardens, there's a plaque there of John Buhot
b Uhot, John Beuhort, there's a plaque of him in
the Brisbane Botanical Gardens, acknowledging him as this great Australian man. Yeah,
(09:38):
and his history in terms of being a slave owner,
he goes back for generations in his family.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And you've got suburbs in the central coast of New
South Wales. A suburb of Tascott is named after Thomas
Allison Scott, who had previously worked at his uncle's slave
trading company and then as a manager at his father's
plantation in Antigua. So they brought people over obviously, you know,
white falls from the Caribbean who were already part of
(10:11):
this slave trading sugar industry. They brought them over here
because of their experience. Yeah, so some of the big
cane farms. There's one the Brown Brothers who set it
on the Fraser Coast. Their sugar plantation is named Antigua
(10:32):
after that island in the Caribbean. And you've got the
other one in Mackay or Mackay, whatever you want to
call it. It's named after Cuba's capital, Habana. Yeah, and
unlike literally I'm looking at this piece of our history
and I started to reflect on the recent public comments
(10:55):
from our Prime Minister Scott Morrison. You basically that slavery
did not exist in Australia.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah. Incredible, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So what's your thoughts on that? Knowing that this is
part of your history, this is your family's experience, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
One of the internal struggles and we you know, we'll
talk about lateral violence is a lot of jealousy gets
stirred up with the Kanaka descendants mixed with Aboriginal heritage.
You know, Torris Straight Island a similar Thursday Island, Palm
Island as not being you know, through and through blackfellows.
(11:33):
So when we wind it back, it's actually it's love
that joined our communities together because when they just lumped
the Caribbean mob from the Indies, you know, Indonesia, Malay,
you know, servants, and they just lumped them. Oh you're
all black and ducks again, get along. They all spoke
different languages. They love is what brought their marriages together,
(11:58):
you know. They they found fell in love with someone
from this other nation, black nation, and then you've got
that story. And so I'm one of the one things
that instilled into a lot of the South Sea islander
is and I find that a lot of Kannakers that
I meet is there's this this work ethic instilled and
us because we couldn't actually benefit from Aboriginal like protection
(12:22):
services or any scheme they made up. You know, so
there was like a winner a loss where we wouldn't
be taken a stolen but then we wouldn't receive any
benefit because we were neither You're neither Aboriginal nor.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You weren't indigenous to this country.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, so they say, well you're not indigenous, but it's like, well,
we didn't want to be here because you tricked my
great grandfather with Lolly's on a ship, you know, and
now he's stuck here. So over time there's like this
this story woven in which I talked a lot of people,
especially down south Victoria, where there wasn't it wasn't as
you know, like prevalent.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
For listeners that don't know the history of this blackbirding,
it was they were brought to Queensland right for the
sugar industry yep.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And then they went into rail lumberyards and then a
big yeah, a lot of them were stuck. And so
when I grew up in Harvey Bay, you know, we
probably had out of our high school probably thirty forty
blackfellows in your school. You know, it's very it's very Anglo,
you know that the perceptions of what Aboriginal.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I remember first seeing a guy for turban and like
grade eleven. So I was like, there's another dark skin
follow on his head, you know. So it's like you
didn't have this cultural injection. And then when you go
to Victoria, it's just like bang every culture.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I always laugh.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Mob say, oh, what's it like living in Victoria. I said, well,
imagine jumping on uber eats. This is this is responsible
over you jumping on uber eats and you just flick
through and you've got like forty countries you can eat from.
I said, then you come back to you Queensland, you
flick on. It's like pizza, there's three four, there's three McDonald's,
Domino's name and so that's like some of that benefit.
(14:04):
But yeah, with like mister Morrison's comments, it just reflects
such a gap in our history I think where they
got to a point where that it's like, you know what,
what to sweetness all under the rug and what'll just
hope over time people would just ah, you know, forget
about it. She'll be right made. And unfortunately, like I said,
with the south Sea Island bloodlines, there was no thing
(14:24):
of stolen wages for them. It just didn't exist because
they weren't Aboriginal. So it's just like wow, well you know,
hard luck sort of thing. But it's incredible. And we
recently found out that my great great grandfather who was taken,
he actually did a whole tour of Australia, working wherever
his master needed him before he got dropped off here
(14:45):
to Queensland and then was stationed more permanently.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So in saying that, right, with this history with the blackbirding, Yeah,
in Britain, when they ended slavery in Britain and that
ended the slavery in Queensland, right yep? I heard that
with the south Sea Island workforce the slaves, but they
(15:12):
were offered an option to return back to their islands
after the slave you know, whatever the policy for the
slavery that act had had been abolished or stopped, all
they could take a compensation package of six acres of land. Yeah,
(15:34):
So is that true that south Sea Island are people?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's funny to say that because and I'll just go
back a little bit too, because I love history. So
William Wilberforce Whitefillar brings the law into Britain after like
decades of getting eaten out by his fellow countrymen. His
pastor at his church was the guy who wrote Amazing Grace,
(15:59):
How Sweep the Sound? And he was an ex slave
trader who had this sort of like awakening.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
He was convicted what he was doing was.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Completely wrong, and he writes amazing Grace because he couldn't believe,
you know, this change in his life because it was
so disgusting, and he encouraged William Wilberforce to go down
to the shipyards. They had it like pucked away in London.
So no one could see what was going on, and
the guy just vomited, you know. And so William Wilberforce
would take good trick, you know, up echelon Society and
(16:29):
other MPs and take him on a trip and then
he'd go past a slave trip a slave ship, and
that would just be vomiting their guts out because it
was so disgusting. And so you've got that flow on there.
A lot of these like yeah, when we got the
laws passed, I've heard stories and we're still like sensitive
about it about land that was given to us and
(16:53):
was actually then taken again because they were saying it's
derelict and all these other excuses. So I don't know
if that's the case for other people of South Ze
Island heritage where they gave us land and they talk
it again and so we lost it. And that was
in around Budroom, Richie Dare that area.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Because when you look at the Bunderberg population with the
South Sea Islanders there there's a lot of South Selander
people or families that own locks of land and have houses,
which is really for me, it was actually quite surprising.
I didn't I didn't know this part of our history
in Queensland that people actually from that slave era got
(17:38):
compensated with land because Abriginal people have never had land
given to them or there's been no compensation unless you've
been through a native title fight. But I'm going back
to the relationship between Aboriginal people and maybe this I
don't know whether it's say envious or jealousy or I
(18:00):
don't know. I was just thinking, do you think that
could be the reason why there is a bit of tension.
And I've heard of this tension in places like Bunderberg
where the South Selander people have had an economic basis
to start from and actual people have had nothing. And
that is obviously not of the fault of South Selander people.
That's the Queensland government right that acknowledged the south Sea
(18:25):
Islander people and compensated some, but didn't acknowledge the Aboriginal
people that were working on the same plantations for next
to nothing or no money at all, but never got
compensated at all. So this is interesting because I'm actually
I was only talking to my aunt Lilla when I
posted that article this morning. Aunt Lilla said to me,
(18:48):
I'm pretty sure that the South Sea Islander people she
didn't know about the Caribbean. That was news to her.
She said, I'm pretty sure the South Zea Islander people
had that. This where I got my information, the six
acres of land as compensation for what happened to them.
So this is something that I want to look into
(19:09):
and understand this relationship between especially Aboriginal people and South
Ceander people, because like you said, love brought them together,
but this disparity between in terms of wealth and even
recognition of what they had been through and then being
compensated would definitely cause a divide amongst them, right when
(19:31):
you think about it, and that divide has now come
down through the generations. I hadn't experienced it myself because
in Brisbane. Well, I grew up in Redfern in Sydney
and there was no touristed Islander people or South Sander
people that lived in Redfern, right, just Aboriginal. When I
came to Queensland in the nineties, big population of under
(19:54):
people in Brisbin, big population. And as you go up
the courts.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Of the capital of the Torres Straits.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Well there you go, there's a lot of more here,
a lot of mop here. But I know for a
lot of black fellows that do live in places like
Bunderberg and even Mackuay, that there is this kind of
you're not one of us, and you shouldn't be getting
the benefits or whatever. You're not you shouldn't be entitled
to this. And I didn't understand what the drama was because,
(20:22):
like I said, I grew up in Sydney. We never
had any of this.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, So I love the fact that, you know, now
we've got some of the documents or articles that a
part of our history that we should be sharing so
that a lot of Aboriginal people can also understand the
impacts of colonialism and the impacts of those past policies
(20:48):
and how impacted on South Sounder people. Not a nice history,
but this is something that really blows people away.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Now, I know you're pretty kind of well read with history.
You know the connection between Queensland and South Africa with
the apartheid.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, I was going to say before that I recently
discovered that we have like, out of the ten worst
communities indigenous communities, Queensland's got like three of them or
four of them or something ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I'll tell me about the party I want to know.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So I think It was after the First World War
that senior South African government officials came to Australia and
they went to Western Australia first and then came over
to Queensland. And what they were looking for, yeah, was
an administrative system of how to control a native problem.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah wow.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And they came across the restriction of the sale of
opium and the Protection of abridge in his Act.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I think it was eighteen sixty seven. And then it's
been tweaked so many times, but a lot of people
refer to the eighteen ninety seven that Act. They took
the that Act in terms of that administrative system had
been in place for one hundred years in Queensland, right,
(22:08):
So they took that back to South Africa and it
formed the basis of the apartheid laws. So yes, Queensland's history.
When you think about even what does the restriction of
the sale of opium got to do with protecting aborigines.
It's something I ask of people all the time. Why
is that one legislation?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So in Queensland at the time, in terms of the
largest form of revenue into the state was through opium permits.
So the Queensland government were like drug dealers. They were licensed.
None of the license. This was all above board. This
is all legal back then that you could as say
(22:53):
a farmer or an owner of a cattle station, you
could go you could buy your pomit opium permit and
you could go to an opium den. Yeah, so many
of them in North queens and I think cook Town
had the most opium dens. Now you could purchase opium.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. Well, and the Brits love opium because opium pubs
to do Hong Kong, Taiwan. They could go in and
you know with the communist China scheme we have now
today that we know is China birth out of the
abuse from English and the attack and violence from Japan,
(23:35):
and because they had Confucism as the main religion before
communism came in. They were now and his people were
really frustrated with the you know, sort of turn the
other cheek.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Mentality that they had to bring in a new world
view that.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Would fire up the Chinese to take back what's been
taken from them. Yeah, and then you have this you
know new things of the Yuga Muslims and those sort
of things. But we have this knee jerk reaction now
over history where China's just expanded into this powerhouse, but
it all came from a traumatic experience with other countries
(24:12):
trying to colonize and take the opium Wars and then
the opium Wars, which is incredible. It's it's a like
you're saying, it's an economic weapon exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And that's why that legislation, right, the restriction of the
sale of opium, became a legislator to take the Chinese
out of business in Queensland.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, which is funny because the Chinese have had ancient
trade routes with the Malay who had trade routes with
the Young loop trade routes with all nations, three hundred
plus nations. So when the Brits came in, not only
did they disrupt our way of life, they also disrupted
intentionally our economic way of life with the existing nations
around us.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Especially when you think about the history with the mcassons,
the tree pangers, you know where they came here to
harvest the sea slug or the beach demur.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, come and get the urchents and take it up.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And as soon as you know, Australia was i think
it was you know, ninety oh one when it was federated,
the Australian government stopped the trade that had been happening
for at least a thousand years. Oh yeah, because of
the fear that they would be invaded by them. So
(25:30):
I heard that in Meningrida there's two groups. There are
two tribes that are traditional enemies because of an unpaid
debt from the mcasson day. But you know what, it's amazing, brother,
because when we think about business black filers, when you
think about business started in this country, you know, we
(25:51):
go back at least one hundred and forty thousand years.
This is where business started. And when you think about
the fact that we were so isolated as a continent,
we still had international relationships through those trade routes with
the macassons and also through the terrest Rate and Papua
New Guinea. Yeah, so we weren't that isolated. We still
(26:13):
had those those relationships, but they never invaded us. Yeah,
we had a relationship, a trading relationship, and that's a
good relationship to have.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, right, And that's why I keeps saying to mob
like business isn't like, oh I'm going to get in
the business.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
It's like it's.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Actually, if you're a blackfellow and you're one of the
you know, two percent of population here, your God ordained
destiny is to steward this country. Yeah, so it's in
our blood, right, it's in your blood. It's your responsibility.
So I always say whether they are starting in life
and we're here in the modern Bay and there's a
lot of communities debate where MOB are stuck down there.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
It's okay, you're now in that.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I see you as on the trajectory being who you're designer,
who you're supposed to be, right, and so it's like
we're called into that because there's just this ingrained sustainable
sustainability mindset that we have where you're not taking more
than you need, you know, you're not just pounding things
out so you can make a profit so you can
buy the best house and to rack for West End
(27:20):
Brisbane in a relative So I just that's what inspires
me about MOB is like they just don't know. And
our mob are phenomenal soft skills people like they can
read a person, sense what's going on.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know, they definitely have.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That intuition, that that gut that you know, kind of
guides us through it with our with our decision making.
I absolutely love that we're talking about this because when
I think about the fact that in Australia, the Indigenous
business sector, well, let's just think about this. In Australia,
there's two million businesses I think, small meeting, but two
(28:00):
million businesses, right, and the Indigenous business sector makesar is
it less than one percent? I don't even think we've
reached one percent. Yeah, well right, so, but we are
the fastest growing in terms of the Indigenous business sector
is growing at faster at a faster rate and the
(28:23):
mainstream business sector. So things are happening. There's been a shift,
and I would say that even though intergenerational trauma holds
a lot of our mob back from reaching their full potential,
from contributing to society, there's still a lot of us
that are managing the trauma, dealing with a lot of
(28:47):
the obligations in our community and family, you know, cultural obligations,
family obligations, and still trying to you know, get that
startup off the ground, or still trying to you know,
finish that university degree, or just climb the ranks, or
not even climb the ranks, but just to turn up
or just to hold a job down. I don't think
(29:10):
people realize what a lot of our mob go through
on the daily to then also and manage a family
and raise children, and look after other people's children, and
look after older people that are not doing too well.
So I love the fact that with this podcast we're
bringing these stories to the forefront. We're giving a lot
(29:33):
of mob an opportunity to talk about, you know, not
just about being in business or not just about being homeowners,
but how deadly it is that we have all these
other skills and all these other strengths, and our aboriginality
or our identity, whatever we identify as right should not
(29:54):
define us. We shouldn't. Sometimes that holds us back because
we're put into this box. Oh you're indigenous, so you're
limited to only doing this, or you've got to work
ten times harder to get your foot in the door,
especially in business.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
So anyways, I'm going to ask you a question because
I was at the inaugural IBA Futures Forum and I
know that you was one of the successful because it
was an expressions of interest and people were selected to
participate in Newcastle on where am I and aerobical country.
(30:35):
What was that like? Tell us about your experience being
part of that futures forum that I.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So the start I was so interesting when they asked
me to come along my business journey. I would have
been going for two and a half three years with
bun Bunje of energy. So to give the invite, they said, well,
we know you've you've already started your journey by you know,
we'd love for you to come along and like just join.
(31:03):
And there was a couple of other black feoves that
had their businesses. I've been going as well. You know,
Marcia playing toon who was the leander swim. Yes, so
we were putting the little group there and we had
kids too, so we're they're like the young adults kids section.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
No, so but I brought the old family.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
We drove up, went past our heaps of beautiful country.
You know, there's some places I've seen where I could say,
you know, I could I could probably do wordre country.
You know, I could probably do you know in some
spots that's so beautiful in the drive up and yeah,
the whole aim of like futures for him and Tristan,
the facilitator was amazing explaining that, and you see it
(31:46):
here in a stress.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So when White Fellow.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Comes to new lands and new environments, potential new markets,
he goes and set ups Chambers of Commerce or Lions Club,
Broadie Club, whatever club it is, Freemasons, whatever they go,
they go to it up straight away because it brings
everyone together on the same page to network, and they
use that ability to then pretty much funnel any any
(32:08):
work opportunity through this system. You know, our system, as
Black Fellows are organic and it moves its ships and
shapes of seasons. We read country, read the animals to
see the rivers. So White Father, he's very systemic.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You think of Germans and their design, how they brain
processes and how many things come out out of their
you know, like Volkswagen, all those sort of things. Side note,
they were in Nazi Germany anyway. Another side note, So
going into our futures for him. You if you watch
like Iron Man, you know the movie he goes to
like the Stark Expo, you know, this is what's the latest,
(32:44):
this is what's the greatest. You know, come be partners
with me in the future. And so a futures forum.
They literally did this fifty sixties, they would have these
things where, you know, the middle upper class echalon of society,
you know, black fellows, no Asians would come down here
and learn about what's going on and who's who in
the zoo. So this whole goal was, why don't we
(33:05):
get a bunch of young black fellas he's walking in
both worlds at different stages of the journey, in the
room to converse and scrope out and design what a
future looks like for us, you know. And so that's
where that's what caught my attention that it wasn't just like, oh,
this facilitation, you know, have a cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And been to many of them, been and many of them.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I've been pap yes under the pavement, you know, I'm
falling asleep in the back, especially when I had Baby Girl.
Some was he was he wasn't a sleeper when baby
Girl came along, and so like half asleep, Yeah listening,
so deadly, guys. But so it was really good to
just be in the room talking to everyone. And then
in war my country where they hosted it, you know,
(33:48):
it was like a multimillion dollar complex where they had
like four or five businesses running out of there.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh yeah, tourism operation right with all.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Those podmassive yeah, massive, and we've got the same I've
here met a more singular lady, lovely old ossie girl,
and she's just like, please come to Briby and run tours.
And so it was just like we're like desperate for it,
you know, please, you know. I was like, and we're
so under serviced here, we have the so much opportunity.
(34:17):
It's just and like you said about overcoming with our mob,
there's just certain phrases of words, or circumstances or smells
can trigger trauma or trigger a defence mechanism which becomes
an objective. And I saw that with Blinder, with some
of our staff. We've got to meetings and you walk
in the room and I've got one of my bdms
(34:38):
as a long a girl, and you've been sitting there
before white guys in suits, you know, and the level
you know, twenty on whatever building, and so it can
be intimidating for me as a black man, I'm just like, ah, whatever,
the whole white dudes, you know. But for a woman
who's come from w A, that's another experience for that
black woman. And so by then I'd find the personality
(35:01):
class of different things. So we had to learn to
work around that and then put in place systems to
be like, Okay, how can we overcome this long term?
You know, would you like to have them visit us
in a familiar place at our office and if they
can't meet our boundaries, then it's probably not a relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Or meet or meet on your terms. That's yeah, you know,
I kind of hear saying, you know, how can they
meet on our terms?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And so so yeah, there was a better experience. And
then you come out of it and you see people
going to launch their businesses. Kaylor with our daily bag,
our song lines, amazing stuff she's doing, and so yeah,
it's just incredible. It still takes me back that these
are just other mob. When you grow up as a
(35:49):
black fellow, sometimes you think you're alone. You think, oh,
and I'll mix my dad's wife and im'm blackfellow. You know, yes,
I do culture, but then I do my busie stuff
over here. You know, get a job, feel a bit
isolated because you come from this very hybrid upbringing.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
But when you get chucked.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
In a room with mixed mob for blood and you
know Torus stray kannaka Bloodlines.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's so encouraging.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I was there, so I could see everybody kind
of just everyone was kind of feeding off everybody's energy, right,
It was amazing. So this is a youth forum, So
we're talking about First Nations youth. Why is it important
that we invest in and support the economic aspirations of
First Nations youth.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So there's a guy old texting that I followed for
personal finance, and he talks about, you know, your the borrowers,
slaves to the lender. And I think in the Western
society it's built around depth. Okay, you owe me, So
this is what you've got to do to sustain that criteria.
And so as Aboriginal people, that's not really something we're
(37:00):
very like, you know, First Nation people in America. In Americas,
we're very covenant center of people. So we're like, if
you gave me your word, you know, I'll show up.
You know, if you I'll have you back, you know, brass,
no matter what happens. You know, if you go off
on a bend, I'll still come pick up. You know,
I'll still do that. And so for us, it's about
(37:21):
understanding how the system works, and then how we cannot
get entangled with things, because I think there's a lot
to get us in tangled with the sidetracked. There's a
lot of some of the my clients that I work
with now because I do consultancy after leaving BUNDL so
helping other Aboriginal businesses with their branding and different things
that I did with bund. It's about finding the perfect
(37:41):
balance between activism and social change, but also then making
getting in the black with the business. And so if
you get on one side on the other and then
you're unbalanced, you know, community will tell you so. But
if you know too much in the in the dollars
and see everything as dollars, you're going to miss on
(38:03):
those relationships. But if you're two side on the social side,
you're not going to be able to progress conversations with
people because a lot of our second people's I like
to call them, I just ignorant. So I pulled up
a good mate the other day who was scanning Navy
and heritage and he said, yeah, but like, what percentage
are you you know? Like if you had I said, bro,
(38:25):
never ever anyone of color that question. And he's like,
what do you mean, like, because you're blonde, blue high.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
He doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I said, well, they'd have this thing called the half
cast act and then they explaining to him, and.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, it was mortified. He's like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I just He's like, where would I know happed because
he grew up middle class Brizie Like, who would tell
me this?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You know who?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I said, no one, because no one's from that world
unless they're there on a scholarship, you know, from for sport.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
And then they're like, you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
It is And you know what, I think it's so
important that you know your people, like yourself that can
educate other people that have no idea because a lot
of us. I was one of them, right, you get
Really it's triggering. That's still today in twenty twenty one,
we as first nations people are having to justify our
(39:24):
identity to people. I've going to justify it, not just
you know, hey am aboriginal. You know it's like no,
hold a minute, are you part or are you full?
Or you know what else?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Are you like? How?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And for listeners listening to this conversation, it is highly offensive,
highly disrespectful, highly inappropriate, to ask anybody First Nations or
non First Nations to justify their identity to you and
you don't know them. It's not the way to start
a relationship or a conversation. For a lot of us
(40:01):
that are out there, you know, engaging with a lot
of non Indigenous people walking in two worlds, being in business,
we're having to do that as well, right, And we
choose to do it because it's something that I do
nine to five and I get into an ub and
I'm doing it again. And some of us are really
good at explaining and educating people. But it is exhausting.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
That's why I see with our old fellows who were
just they just disconnect, go walk about.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I don't invite many of those things.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Women are so frustrated angry because our matriarchs are often
the voice in our communities, you know, according to law
al Iri, and our men quite quite reserved you doing
their things still decision makers, you know, and people just
like don't understand that that it's yeah, it can be frustrating,
but like you just said, it's you can use it.
(40:52):
And I would encourage mob if you can find that
place to use that conversation starter as a door opener
in business, Like I met with a big water provider
here today and that was the first topic.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
You know, Oh we've got rec week.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We're trying with our wrap, you know if you think
so straight away, I'm given a platform that pretty much
no other person Australia unless the Aboriginal will have because
they're not gonna be able to go knock on the
door of a big you know company that's procuring you know,
out millions of dollars and started. And so for now
that we can have that conversation and use it to advantage.
(41:31):
But like you said, it does require us to mentally
and spiritually be filling ourselves up to go out and
do it, because yeah, otherwise you'll be so drained exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
So what are you doing now? You said you've left
jun Joe parted ways there. What are you doing now?
What's keeping you busy?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
So I felt, you know, it's funny. My wife had
a dream mid last year, early last year the word Butterham, budroom,
sunshine posts and she said, I don't think that's real,
and she's found it and she's like, oh, it's one
country and for you know, for ages in Victoria. I've
always missed home, you know, the humility, the sweat, the heat,
(42:13):
you know, the limbo and beer Burham and that in
the background beaches perfect amazing and so I was always
ready to go, and so we felt to move last
year back to country. And then in that time my clan,
but then Dumby Clan, have started to not distance ourselves
(42:35):
from a lot of Native title stuff that's going on.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
But just say is there is there a better way?
You know, is there a better way to do this?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And so it's not so divisive, right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
That's yeah, that's it because everyone sees it as like
in kwonder Muca, you know who are doing amazing stuff
like Kwondu Muka. You can see you go there, you
go across the road the old town hall with the
elders and then you got the five star heigh you know,
high end amazing resort. So can someone explain to me
how that is an outcome that I want my people
(43:08):
to achieve. So our mindset, with our planners will still
be involved with native title, but now we're going to
create and all inclusive for all too groups based on
Cob Cob Country to be involved in a business conversation
that puts us all in the same room like a
you know know, mini chamber of commerce or a mini
(43:29):
business group. And you know, I go to a few
of the wa follow ones here and theret me doing
it for decades. So what do you think when they
go to build roads, develop housing estates, build dams, who
do you think wins the work? You know, they were
chosen two three years before the project drops. And so
we need to shape our mind to say, all right,
(43:50):
we need to be in those conversations for long term
for you know, we get this business up and running
and our children will take it, you know, even further.
And so coming back to country, that was one of
the main objectives is to get Kubby Cubbybuby business up
and running so that we have this advocacy body which
talks the community and then in between then to help
(44:13):
pay the bills. I work with a few clients Victoria
in Queensland, New South Wales helped out consulting on their
branding because everyone likes like what I did with Bundel. Yeah,
and they also have my little podcast not as good
as yours.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I'll catch you one day.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
So I've got up to about thirty six thirty seven episodes,
just interviewing other people around social entrepreneurship. Yeah, what's it black,
black and whites. It's called Deadly Discussions podcast.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Deadly Discussions And can people just download that on like Spotify?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, on Spotify podcast platforms, yeah, on it is a
stitcher and a few other ones as well. So yeah,
I was doing that as because I'm probably you probably
the same feedback. I would be talking at events on
panels and just talking to other people and one of
my guys was like, man, you should just record this
(45:07):
and upload it, and so I did it. So it's
super raw, super authentic, just real, you know, we record it, bang,
put it up, snip snip, that's it, you know, And
so I haven't put much stuff in it, but it's
it's cool.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
It's and that as well as example in itself.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You know, I've only got you know, I saw you'll
posted that about twenty thousand downloads probably high now, but
so mine's on two thousand. But the doors that it
opens is just incredible and I encourage more. But it
doesn't matter the size of like your your marketing or
even budget or getting out there. Sometimes you feel like, oh,
(45:44):
that was just a waste of time. But you never know,
you never know who's listening or who's watching eye And
so you find people on like LinkedIn, right who are
like C suite CFO CEOs and you're like at an event,
right and everyone's in suits black tie. They're like, mate,
you know, I love your work and I just want
to say your podcast is great, you know, keep it up.
(46:05):
And they're like, I want to pay sex companies see
cr phone.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
You're like, why are you listening to my podcast?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
How did you hear about my podcast? I know, I
don't need to be kind of shame, right, you go,
oh my god, no, I know.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So it's just like you just yeah, you just like
stand it another mob. You try different things. I see
sister girls and some brother boys they're doing like stuff
on TikTok, like and you're reaching people in the corporate world. Yeah,
and so you just never know who's watching and who's listening.
So it always just be yourself, you know, don't worry
about it. And you know, finding that value system I
(46:38):
think as well is really important, you know, from you
know culture the positives, because you know a lot of
people try to soociate a lot of negatives of our culture.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah, but you know it's about to taking those positives.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I hear. All right, So listen, I got one last
question before we wrap up. Yes, what is your fifty
year vision? Because I know with the Futures Forum it
was about looking fifty years and planning fifty years ahead
of us. So what is your fifty year vision for
the indigenous business sector?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah? Sure, So I put mine from so I played.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
I worked in Elston Wick corefields around a very Jewish area.
I even played soccer for the mccabi, the Jewish team
for two seasons, and so I had this immersion of culture, right,
and they all thought I was Jewish. They would call
me Jitsak, which is my name in Israeli, and that
abused me.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
And is you know Jewish? I mean Israeli. I would
remember clue what's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
So one day one of them was like, hey, like,
you're a better know how to say like you're an Aboriginal.
I said, yeah, is that like a problem, Like no,
we're so happy we've never had like an indigenous person
playing our team. And so I had this connection into
their culture. And I would speak at panels at a
synagogue and different things like that. But one thing they
(47:52):
did so well coming out of like World War two
and other places where they've been persecuted, is they were
just up through.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
They would plant themselves in a new area.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
They would all work with each other, they'd buy off
each other's businesses. They would try to get our school
going with one of the mums or that running it,
the dad's running it. So they would internally look to
how they could touch, you know, touch points with other
black fellows as much as possible.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
You know, Okay, I've got an event.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
So I'll get a brother boy here, I've got to
get a car, get that with such and such car,
you know, And they would everything was connected, and then
over time you've just got this economic and social and
positive benefit just circulating through like.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
A black economy, like a black economy.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
And so that's my vision is getting our mob to
maturity where we can and then if there are disputes,
we can have some sort of system that's culturally appropriate
where we can say, hey, Bras, you know, you said
you're going to do this contract, and you let down
such and such, you know, And so we have this
internaling and not let external culture dictate on what we
(49:04):
do and what we don't do because we do have
systems of law and cultural you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Know, obligations, obligation.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Believe obligations.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
But then we also have mob who are very you know,
Christian Judaic in their law ali so they believe in
a creative God and son and spirits. And then we
have other mob who are very paganistic in their law,
you know, medicine, menuage, doctor, spirit, serpents, and so you've
got to you know, everyone get along three hundred plast
(49:34):
nation sort of thing. But I would imagine fifty years
fingers crossed, that would what would look like that We've
got this national economy where we're not just looking at
indigenous for kurment policies to go get a chunk of change.
We're like, okay to turnover from working with governments two bill,
but you know we circulated you know, ten bill in
(49:57):
our own economy. That's new homes, cars, education, you know, holidays,
you know, investing social impact and so that would be
like my vision and I'm like, yeah, just super stoked
to see how that unfold. And because I did coming
into Bunjol, I was on the tail end of the
twenty sixteen, seven seventeen, so I was on the tail
(50:17):
end of twenty fifteen with the IPP launched. So when
I went to my first supply nation connect, I was
at the tail end of like the gen I'd like
to call Gen one Aboriginal business. So you had a
lot of jvs. You had a lot of like unsure
about what is this? You know, you know, what is
this thing? And so I was coming on the tail
end of that and into the new generation of Aboriginal
(50:39):
people who are now in business and going, hang on, oh,
there's this thing called and vision for kurement or social fulfillment.
And so I was in this really cool spot. And
the one thing as well, with our mom we might
be a bit hard on themselves. And I finished with
this is you know this recession on what's correct, you know,
COVID done is it's caused this a first real recession
for our sector. And so I think our mob can
(51:01):
be a bit hard on themselves. And I just say,
you know, we've gone through so many trials and tribulations
like we've got this.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, I love it. Well, look on that note, I
just want to say it's been an absolute pleasure to
have a year with you, because we have never yarned
before I know each other.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
At a distance, I don't know like I know.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
You, but I don't know you so like, I just
want to say, thank you so much for everything that
we've yarned about. And it's just amazing that a lot
of our our mob, like yourself, are doing you know,
so much more than I thought. Like I had no
idea that you had a podcast. I had no idea
that you're doing other stuff and you're part of with Bunjo,
So there's so much that I've just learned. I didn't
(51:42):
even know you were at the Futures Forum and I
was there too, So I just want to say, look,
thank you so much for being part of the IBA
partnership series with Black Magic Women. And I just want
to say, can't wait to actually meet you now that
I'm here on.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
So you're down near the Old Fellas.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yes, so you and I I will have to catch
out pay I'll make sure after this podcast I reach
out to you and let's have a yarn. No worries,
but thank you so much, and I guess we will speak.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Soon, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Thanks now, eys, we're rather have an amazing afternoon.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I will thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
How amazing like literally we're talking about history, talking about
articles that I read just this morning about the history
of blackbirding, which is slavery here in Queensland, and like
I said, something that our Prime Minister wants to deny,
but there's a whole lot of evidence there. And I
just hope that people start to really try and understand
(52:46):
the fact that aberysnall and touch under people as well
as solves down under people. What we've been through to
be able to do what we do today and to
participate in society today, and like I said, and some
of the things that hold us back from reaching our
full potential, but also despite all of the odds that
are a gangst us, that we're still able to kind
(53:08):
of smash things, set businesses up and do things that
we want to do. And I love when we can
do business on our terms of reference. That's what's important
to me as an average woman who's in business, that
we participate at the table. We have a seat at
the table, but we participate on our terms. So I
(53:29):
hope you enjoyed that yarn And until next time, by
for now, if you'd like to know more about IBA
and how they can help you to own your own home,
start or grow a business or invest in your future.
Visit IBA dot gov dot au or free call one
eight hundred one zero seven one zero s. Don't forget
(53:51):
to follow black Magic Woman podcasts on all social media platforms.
To keep up to date with the latest episodes and
use head to black magic Woman dot com dot au.
You can rate and review the podcast on iTunes, and
please feel free to share the podcast with your family
and friends.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
H
This episode is proudly sponsored by Indigenous Business Australia, who
serves partners and invests with Aboriginal and torrest right island
of people who want to own their own future. Welcome
to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bails.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Us Aboriginal people.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Regardless of title. You know, relationalism not war making.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
It's the best way to have secure.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Is the best time to be a black color, specially
in business, so powerful the successful Ariiginal women.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I am a survivor of the stolen generations.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I'd like to begin this podcast by acknowledging the kubby
cubby and gubby gubby peoples here on the Sunshine Coast.
I'd like to also pay my respects and acknowledge their
elder's past and present, and extend my acknowledgment of traditional
owners right across this country. From wherever this podcast has
been listened to, Welcome to the IBA Partnership Series, Podcast
(01:02):
number three. We've got another special guest joining us today,
and as always, you know, we're we're having conversations about
who we are, where we come from, what our experiences
have been like growing up in this country, in particular
as black fellows in this country now known as Australia.
(01:24):
And also you know why we do what we do.
So I just want to say welcome to the Black
Magic Woman podcast. Isaac. It's great to have you on.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yeah, and Gora and one yard, so hello and welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You know, Copic cover country some copy copies, so you know,
welcome to yourself, and thank you so much for hosting
on our beautiful land. Like to refer to it as
God's country, which stares up the rest of the mob.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
But no, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
No whereas it or so Isaac Harrison tell us, tell
us a little bit about yourself. You know, obviously you
you're a covey coby man. But yeah, you know you
do your introduction for our.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
You know. It's funny when you say introductions because it
always depends on who's in the room with, you know,
depending on the setting. You know, last night I was
at an event in the mp there for our Eridana
and Kabula. His heritage's kanaka, but he doesn't he can't
(02:27):
tie generation back from his father. So he got this heritage,
but he doesn't know the connection. So when I'm talking
to him, I talk more about my South Islander heritage
and bridge that connection. So yeah, my grandfather was a
covercoming man. His grandfather married into He was taken from
(02:47):
Veduatu in the South Islands, processed and the Torres Straits
and brought down a courtesy of the CSR Colony or
sugar refinery and the Queensland government called blackbirding and sent
out to work cut caine bill railroads, chop wood. And
he married into so you know, gorgeous kubby cubby woman
caught his eye. And I married into the kubby cubby nation,
(03:12):
in particular Numbi clan, which is the word meaning people
of salt and fresh water. And so that's Grandad's side
and then Nna's bury Berry go so from up north,
so you know, people know the smaller family and all that.
That's all my bloodline there. But he used to live
up there for a while. But I grew up in
(03:33):
Harvey Bay. So I was born in Merraborough, so in
the Fraser Coast. So you know, small, smaller coastal town.
Not much to do, I suppose, but do you know
fishing and whale watching. So as soon as I got
my license, I headed to the Big Smoke in Brizzy
and that's where I did my education and then I
(03:54):
eventually fail to call him back to country, so black Swan,
Muchendor where I did my trade as well, and then
I ended up in the renewable sector, which is pretty
much people know me from Bunol Energy, my company that
I founded and recently exited.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
But I'm sure we'll probably get to that further.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
But yes, I'm Kebe Cubbybury Government and my father's Anglo Australian,
so English. His heritage comes from Yorkshire in England, so
I've looked up a bit of that ancestry too, which
is pretty interesting. Yeah, that's that's me.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So which way you come from? Big family, your brothers
and sisters, your children, you're married, what else?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, so then you know, let's say ten ten children,
so we're you know, fifty something cousins first cousins. So
just on one side, I married my beautiful wife. She's
a Melbourne girl. And so when I moved down to
Melbourne that six seven years ago, i met her down there.
(04:54):
I was playing I played did you do for professionally?
For a house band, so you know that sort.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Of stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
For a house band.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yeah, that sat out in the bush douff doffs, you know,
they love it.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
So it's it's good fun that the DJ of the group,
he's an older fella, he was good. He's good mates
Digery stew and Oka. Uh okay, I can't, I can't
from pronounce it's not Oka. But so you go way back,
you know, music festival. So he's like in his fifties.
So they had a bit of a renaissance and they said, hey,
(05:30):
you know, you're not bad at the hit, you want
to come and play.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
And so it turned out and became a new ditch player.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So it has such a great experience, you know, because
you come from country Queensland and you end up and
uh Victoria that in regional very you know, progressive is different.
It's just different, you know, good different, you know, because
you experience so many different elements of life. But but yeah,
so Mar and my wive to little Jarge, a four
(05:57):
year old gone under five and my little titty girl,
she's the big boss.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
She's two gone on the three.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
The youngest is the youngest is always the boss of
the house, right, Yes, in black families, I think people
spin out when I talk about that delivering training. How
tiger Lily, the youngest of five. You know, she's going
on fourteen, but she literally runs the house. She's the boss,
and she'll tell you she's the boss.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know where it comes from.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
And she's got the nice big chubb of cheeks, chubble legs,
brown scared and go with it. And my wife, her
father's actually South Indian, so he's from Bangalore and he
married Anglo lady, Ossie Anglo when he migrated to Australia,
so we got that Indian culture too, which is something
(06:48):
really important for me. When I was looking for a spouse,
something I always wanted was someone who had a bit
of culture in their background so they could understand some
of the complexities with our culture.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Well they could, they kind of just well not slot
into our family, but I guess it makes it a
bit easier for them to be part of our family
to understand, like you said, to understand some of those complexities.
It's more of a not a smoother transition, but it's easier.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
When from conversations, a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, you don't have to explain too much of your
culture because usually, especially with Indian culture, there's a lot
of similarities, right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, that's it. I think.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
You know, the studies show about our DNA being linked
closely to Sri Lanka, South India and then over to
Africa many thousands of years ago, and so there's some similarities.
And when I got to know Larichi nation for different
trips a lot of Sri Lankan South Indian, then they
(07:54):
love like black fil pulpit because it's just to them
it feels like home, having family around a meal and
so it's always interesting.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
So yeah, I'm kids.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, I got blackfellow South Island Indian and white Sox
to deadly.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I want to go back to the South Sea Islander
part of your culture, your family history there. In terms
of when you mentioned CSR the colonial Sugar Refinery, I
did not know that that's what is that what CSI
really stands for.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, you double Wikipedia, you'll be able to find it.
So well.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Today, literally two hours ago, I shared an article on
my Facebook page from the Conversation and the article title
is from the Caribbean to Queensland. I think I saw
that re examining Australia's blackbirding past and its roots in
the global slave trade. Yep, so for people that are
(08:53):
not too familiar with this, you know, going back to
the eighteen forties. I was, I was just reading it today.
So it's amazing you and I have in this yarn today.
I did not know that they went beyond places like Vanuatu,
that they actually did steal. You know, obviously people slaves,
(09:14):
indentured labor from the Caribbean as well. In Brisbane at
the Botanic Gardens, there's a plaque there of John Buhot
b Uhot, John Beuhort, there's a plaque of him in
the Brisbane Botanical Gardens, acknowledging him as this great Australian man. Yeah,
(09:38):
and his history in terms of being a slave owner,
he goes back for generations in his family.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And you've got suburbs in the central coast of New
South Wales. A suburb of Tascott is named after Thomas
Allison Scott, who had previously worked at his uncle's slave
trading company and then as a manager at his father's
plantation in Antigua. So they brought people over obviously, you know,
white falls from the Caribbean who were already part of
(10:11):
this slave trading sugar industry. They brought them over here
because of their experience. Yeah, so some of the big
cane farms. There's one the Brown Brothers who set it
on the Fraser Coast. Their sugar plantation is named Antigua
(10:32):
after that island in the Caribbean. And you've got the
other one in Mackay or Mackay, whatever you want to
call it. It's named after Cuba's capital, Habana. Yeah, and
unlike literally I'm looking at this piece of our history
and I started to reflect on the recent public comments
(10:55):
from our Prime Minister Scott Morrison. You basically that slavery
did not exist in Australia.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Yeah. Incredible, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So what's your thoughts on that? Knowing that this is
part of your history, this is your family's experience, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
One of the internal struggles and we you know, we'll
talk about lateral violence is a lot of jealousy gets
stirred up with the Kanaka descendants mixed with Aboriginal heritage.
You know, Torris Straight Island a similar Thursday Island, Palm
Island as not being you know, through and through blackfellows.
(11:33):
So when we wind it back, it's actually it's love
that joined our communities together because when they just lumped
the Caribbean mob from the Indies, you know, Indonesia, Malay,
you know, servants, and they just lumped them. Oh you're
all black and ducks again, get along. They all spoke
different languages. They love is what brought their marriages together,
(11:58):
you know. They they found fell in love with someone
from this other nation, black nation, and then you've got
that story. And so I'm one of the one things
that instilled into a lot of the South Sea islander
is and I find that a lot of Kannakers that
I meet is there's this this work ethic instilled and
us because we couldn't actually benefit from Aboriginal like protection
(12:22):
services or any scheme they made up. You know, so
there was like a winner a loss where we wouldn't
be taken a stolen but then we wouldn't receive any
benefit because we were neither You're neither Aboriginal nor.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
You weren't indigenous to this country.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, so they say, well you're not indigenous, but it's like, well,
we didn't want to be here because you tricked my
great grandfather with Lolly's on a ship, you know, and
now he's stuck here. So over time there's like this
this story woven in which I talked a lot of people,
especially down south Victoria, where there wasn't it wasn't as
you know, like prevalent.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
For listeners that don't know the history of this blackbirding,
it was they were brought to Queensland right for the
sugar industry yep.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And then they went into rail lumberyards and then a
big yeah, a lot of them were stuck. And so
when I grew up in Harvey Bay, you know, we
probably had out of our high school probably thirty forty
blackfellows in your school. You know, it's very it's very Anglo,
you know that the perceptions of what Aboriginal.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I remember first seeing a guy for turban and like
grade eleven. So I was like, there's another dark skin
follow on his head, you know. So it's like you
didn't have this cultural injection. And then when you go
to Victoria, it's just like bang every culture.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I always laugh.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Mob say, oh, what's it like living in Victoria. I said, well,
imagine jumping on uber eats. This is this is responsible
over you jumping on uber eats and you just flick
through and you've got like forty countries you can eat from.
I said, then you come back to you Queensland, you
flick on. It's like pizza, there's three four, there's three McDonald's,
Domino's name and so that's like some of that benefit.
(14:04):
But yeah, with like mister Morrison's comments, it just reflects
such a gap in our history I think where they
got to a point where that it's like, you know what,
what to sweetness all under the rug and what'll just
hope over time people would just ah, you know, forget
about it. She'll be right made. And unfortunately, like I said,
with the south Sea Island bloodlines, there was no thing
(14:24):
of stolen wages for them. It just didn't exist because
they weren't Aboriginal. So it's just like wow, well you know,
hard luck sort of thing. But it's incredible. And we
recently found out that my great great grandfather who was taken,
he actually did a whole tour of Australia, working wherever
his master needed him before he got dropped off here
(14:45):
to Queensland and then was stationed more permanently.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So in saying that, right, with this history with the blackbirding, Yeah,
in Britain, when they ended slavery in Britain and that
ended the slavery in Queensland, right yep? I heard that
with the south Sea Island workforce the slaves, but they
(15:12):
were offered an option to return back to their islands
after the slave you know, whatever the policy for the
slavery that act had had been abolished or stopped, all
they could take a compensation package of six acres of land. Yeah,
(15:34):
So is that true that south Sea Island are people?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
It's funny to say that because and I'll just go
back a little bit too, because I love history. So
William Wilberforce Whitefillar brings the law into Britain after like
decades of getting eaten out by his fellow countrymen. His
pastor at his church was the guy who wrote Amazing Grace,
(15:59):
How Sweep the Sound? And he was an ex slave
trader who had this sort of like awakening.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
He was convicted what he was doing was.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Completely wrong, and he writes amazing Grace because he couldn't believe,
you know, this change in his life because it was
so disgusting, and he encouraged William Wilberforce to go down
to the shipyards. They had it like pucked away in London.
So no one could see what was going on, and
the guy just vomited, you know. And so William Wilberforce
would take good trick, you know, up echelon Society and
(16:29):
other MPs and take him on a trip and then
he'd go past a slave trip a slave ship, and
that would just be vomiting their guts out because it
was so disgusting. And so you've got that flow on there.
A lot of these like yeah, when we got the
laws passed, I've heard stories and we're still like sensitive
about it about land that was given to us and
(16:53):
was actually then taken again because they were saying it's
derelict and all these other excuses. So I don't know
if that's the case for other people of South Ze
Island heritage where they gave us land and they talk
it again and so we lost it. And that was
in around Budroom, Richie Dare that area.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Because when you look at the Bunderberg population with the
South Sea Islanders there there's a lot of South Selander
people or families that own locks of land and have houses,
which is really for me, it was actually quite surprising.
I didn't I didn't know this part of our history
in Queensland that people actually from that slave era got
(17:38):
compensated with land because Abriginal people have never had land
given to them or there's been no compensation unless you've
been through a native title fight. But I'm going back
to the relationship between Aboriginal people and maybe this I
don't know whether it's say envious or jealousy or I
(18:00):
don't know. I was just thinking, do you think that
could be the reason why there is a bit of tension.
And I've heard of this tension in places like Bunderberg
where the South Selander people have had an economic basis
to start from and actual people have had nothing. And
that is obviously not of the fault of South Selander people.
That's the Queensland government right that acknowledged the south Sea
(18:25):
Islander people and compensated some, but didn't acknowledge the Aboriginal
people that were working on the same plantations for next
to nothing or no money at all, but never got
compensated at all. So this is interesting because I'm actually
I was only talking to my aunt Lilla when I
posted that article this morning. Aunt Lilla said to me,
(18:48):
I'm pretty sure that the South Sea Islander people she
didn't know about the Caribbean. That was news to her.
She said, I'm pretty sure the South Zea Islander people
had that. This where I got my information, the six
acres of land as compensation for what happened to them.
So this is something that I want to look into
(19:09):
and understand this relationship between especially Aboriginal people and South
Ceander people, because like you said, love brought them together,
but this disparity between in terms of wealth and even
recognition of what they had been through and then being
compensated would definitely cause a divide amongst them, right when
(19:31):
you think about it, and that divide has now come
down through the generations. I hadn't experienced it myself because
in Brisbane. Well, I grew up in Redfern in Sydney
and there was no touristed Islander people or South Sander
people that lived in Redfern, right, just Aboriginal. When I
came to Queensland in the nineties, big population of under
(19:54):
people in Brisbin, big population. And as you go up
the courts.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Of the capital of the Torres Straits.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Well there you go, there's a lot of more here,
a lot of mop here. But I know for a
lot of black fellows that do live in places like
Bunderberg and even Mackuay, that there is this kind of
you're not one of us, and you shouldn't be getting
the benefits or whatever. You're not you shouldn't be entitled
to this. And I didn't understand what the drama was because,
(20:22):
like I said, I grew up in Sydney. We never
had any of this.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, So I love the fact that, you know, now
we've got some of the documents or articles that a
part of our history that we should be sharing so
that a lot of Aboriginal people can also understand the
impacts of colonialism and the impacts of those past policies
(20:48):
and how impacted on South Sounder people. Not a nice history,
but this is something that really blows people away.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Now, I know you're pretty kind of well read with history.
You know the connection between Queensland and South Africa with
the apartheid.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, I was going to say before that I recently
discovered that we have like, out of the ten worst
communities indigenous communities, Queensland's got like three of them or
four of them or something ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But I'll tell me about the party I want to know.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So I think It was after the First World War
that senior South African government officials came to Australia and
they went to Western Australia first and then came over
to Queensland. And what they were looking for, yeah, was
an administrative system of how to control a native problem.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah wow.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And they came across the restriction of the sale of
opium and the Protection of abridge in his Act.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
I think it was eighteen sixty seven. And then it's
been tweaked so many times, but a lot of people
refer to the eighteen ninety seven that Act. They took
the that Act in terms of that administrative system had
been in place for one hundred years in Queensland, right,
(22:08):
So they took that back to South Africa and it
formed the basis of the apartheid laws. So yes, Queensland's history.
When you think about even what does the restriction of
the sale of opium got to do with protecting aborigines.
It's something I ask of people all the time. Why
is that one legislation?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So in Queensland at the time, in terms of the
largest form of revenue into the state was through opium permits.
So the Queensland government were like drug dealers. They were licensed.
None of the license. This was all above board. This
is all legal back then that you could as say
(22:53):
a farmer or an owner of a cattle station, you
could go you could buy your pomit opium permit and
you could go to an opium den. Yeah, so many
of them in North queens and I think cook Town
had the most opium dens. Now you could purchase opium.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah. Well, and the Brits love opium because opium pubs
to do Hong Kong, Taiwan. They could go in and
you know with the communist China scheme we have now
today that we know is China birth out of the
abuse from English and the attack and violence from Japan,
(23:35):
and because they had Confucism as the main religion before
communism came in. They were now and his people were
really frustrated with the you know, sort of turn the
other cheek.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Mentality that they had to bring in a new world
view that.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Would fire up the Chinese to take back what's been
taken from them. Yeah, and then you have this you
know new things of the Yuga Muslims and those sort
of things. But we have this knee jerk reaction now
over history where China's just expanded into this powerhouse, but
it all came from a traumatic experience with other countries
(24:12):
trying to colonize and take the opium Wars and then
the opium Wars, which is incredible. It's it's a like
you're saying, it's an economic weapon exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
And that's why that legislation, right, the restriction of the
sale of opium, became a legislator to take the Chinese
out of business in Queensland.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, which is funny because the Chinese have had ancient
trade routes with the Malay who had trade routes with
the Young loop trade routes with all nations, three hundred
plus nations. So when the Brits came in, not only
did they disrupt our way of life, they also disrupted
intentionally our economic way of life with the existing nations
around us.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Especially when you think about the history with the mcassons,
the tree pangers, you know where they came here to
harvest the sea slug or the beach demur.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, come and get the urchents and take it up.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And as soon as you know, Australia was i think
it was you know, ninety oh one when it was federated,
the Australian government stopped the trade that had been happening
for at least a thousand years. Oh yeah, because of
the fear that they would be invaded by them. So
(25:30):
I heard that in Meningrida there's two groups. There are
two tribes that are traditional enemies because of an unpaid
debt from the mcasson day. But you know what, it's amazing, brother,
because when we think about business black filers, when you
think about business started in this country, you know, we
(25:51):
go back at least one hundred and forty thousand years.
This is where business started. And when you think about
the fact that we were so isolated as a continent,
we still had international relationships through those trade routes with
the macassons and also through the terrest Rate and Papua
New Guinea. Yeah, so we weren't that isolated. We still
(26:13):
had those those relationships, but they never invaded us. Yeah,
we had a relationship, a trading relationship, and that's a
good relationship to have.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, right, And that's why I keeps saying to mob
like business isn't like, oh I'm going to get in
the business.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
It's like it's.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Actually, if you're a blackfellow and you're one of the
you know, two percent of population here, your God ordained
destiny is to steward this country. Yeah, so it's in
our blood, right, it's in your blood. It's your responsibility.
So I always say whether they are starting in life
and we're here in the modern Bay and there's a
lot of communities debate where MOB are stuck down there.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
It's okay, you're now in that.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I see you as on the trajectory being who you're designer,
who you're supposed to be, right, and so it's like
we're called into that because there's just this ingrained sustainable
sustainability mindset that we have where you're not taking more
than you need, you know, you're not just pounding things
out so you can make a profit so you can
buy the best house and to rack for West End
(27:20):
Brisbane in a relative So I just that's what inspires
me about MOB is like they just don't know. And
our mob are phenomenal soft skills people like they can
read a person, sense what's going on.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
You know, they definitely have.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That intuition, that that gut that you know, kind of
guides us through it with our with our decision making.
I absolutely love that we're talking about this because when
I think about the fact that in Australia, the Indigenous
business sector, well, let's just think about this. In Australia,
there's two million businesses I think, small meeting, but two
(28:00):
million businesses, right, and the Indigenous business sector makesar is
it less than one percent? I don't even think we've
reached one percent. Yeah, well right, so, but we are
the fastest growing in terms of the Indigenous business sector
is growing at faster at a faster rate and the
(28:23):
mainstream business sector. So things are happening. There's been a shift,
and I would say that even though intergenerational trauma holds
a lot of our mob back from reaching their full potential,
from contributing to society, there's still a lot of us
that are managing the trauma, dealing with a lot of
(28:47):
the obligations in our community and family, you know, cultural obligations,
family obligations, and still trying to you know, get that
startup off the ground, or still trying to you know,
finish that university degree, or just climb the ranks, or
not even climb the ranks, but just to turn up
or just to hold a job down. I don't think
(29:10):
people realize what a lot of our mob go through
on the daily to then also and manage a family
and raise children, and look after other people's children, and
look after older people that are not doing too well.
So I love the fact that with this podcast we're
bringing these stories to the forefront. We're giving a lot
(29:33):
of mob an opportunity to talk about, you know, not
just about being in business or not just about being homeowners,
but how deadly it is that we have all these
other skills and all these other strengths, and our aboriginality
or our identity, whatever we identify as right should not
(29:54):
define us. We shouldn't. Sometimes that holds us back because
we're put into this box. Oh you're indigenous, so you're
limited to only doing this, or you've got to work
ten times harder to get your foot in the door,
especially in business.
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
So anyways, I'm going to ask you a question because
I was at the inaugural IBA Futures Forum and I
know that you was one of the successful because it
was an expressions of interest and people were selected to
participate in Newcastle on where am I and aerobical country.
(30:35):
What was that like? Tell us about your experience being
part of that futures forum that I.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So the start I was so interesting when they asked
me to come along my business journey. I would have
been going for two and a half three years with
bun Bunje of energy. So to give the invite, they said, well,
we know you've you've already started your journey by you know,
we'd love for you to come along and like just join.
(31:03):
And there was a couple of other black feoves that
had their businesses. I've been going as well. You know,
Marcia playing toon who was the leander swim. Yes, so
we were putting the little group there and we had
kids too, so we're they're like the young adults kids section.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
No, so but I brought the old family.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
We drove up, went past our heaps of beautiful country.
You know, there's some places I've seen where I could say,
you know, I could I could probably do wordre country.
You know, I could probably do you know in some
spots that's so beautiful in the drive up and yeah,
the whole aim of like futures for him and Tristan,
the facilitator was amazing explaining that, and you see it
(31:46):
here in a stress.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
So when White Fellow.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Comes to new lands and new environments, potential new markets,
he goes and set ups Chambers of Commerce or Lions Club,
Broadie Club, whatever club it is, Freemasons, whatever they go,
they go to it up straight away because it brings
everyone together on the same page to network, and they
use that ability to then pretty much funnel any any
(32:08):
work opportunity through this system. You know, our system, as
Black Fellows are organic and it moves its ships and
shapes of seasons. We read country, read the animals to
see the rivers. So White Father, he's very systemic.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
You think of Germans and their design, how they brain
processes and how many things come out out of their
you know, like Volkswagen, all those sort of things. Side note,
they were in Nazi Germany anyway. Another side note, So
going into our futures for him. You if you watch
like Iron Man, you know the movie he goes to
like the Stark Expo, you know, this is what's the latest,
(32:44):
this is what's the greatest. You know, come be partners
with me in the future. And so a futures forum.
They literally did this fifty sixties, they would have these
things where, you know, the middle upper class echalon of society,
you know, black fellows, no Asians would come down here
and learn about what's going on and who's who in
the zoo. So this whole goal was, why don't we
(33:05):
get a bunch of young black fellas he's walking in
both worlds at different stages of the journey, in the
room to converse and scrope out and design what a
future looks like for us, you know. And so that's
where that's what caught my attention that it wasn't just like, oh,
this facilitation, you know, have a cup of tea.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And been to many of them, been and many of them.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I've been pap yes under the pavement, you know, I'm
falling asleep in the back, especially when I had Baby Girl.
Some was he was he wasn't a sleeper when baby
Girl came along, and so like half asleep, Yeah listening,
so deadly, guys. But so it was really good to
just be in the room talking to everyone. And then
in war my country where they hosted it, you know,
(33:48):
it was like a multimillion dollar complex where they had
like four or five businesses running out of there.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Oh yeah, tourism operation right with all.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Those podmassive yeah, massive, and we've got the same I've
here met a more singular lady, lovely old ossie girl,
and she's just like, please come to Briby and run tours.
And so it was just like we're like desperate for it,
you know, please, you know. I was like, and we're
so under serviced here, we have the so much opportunity.
(34:17):
It's just and like you said about overcoming with our mob,
there's just certain phrases of words, or circumstances or smells
can trigger trauma or trigger a defence mechanism which becomes
an objective. And I saw that with Blinder, with some
of our staff. We've got to meetings and you walk
in the room and I've got one of my bdms
(34:38):
as a long a girl, and you've been sitting there
before white guys in suits, you know, and the level
you know, twenty on whatever building, and so it can
be intimidating for me as a black man, I'm just like, ah, whatever,
the whole white dudes, you know. But for a woman
who's come from w A, that's another experience for that
black woman. And so by then I'd find the personality
(35:01):
class of different things. So we had to learn to
work around that and then put in place systems to
be like, Okay, how can we overcome this long term?
You know, would you like to have them visit us
in a familiar place at our office and if they
can't meet our boundaries, then it's probably not a relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Or meet or meet on your terms. That's yeah, you know,
I kind of hear saying, you know, how can they
meet on our terms?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Yep, that's it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
And so so yeah, there was a better experience. And
then you come out of it and you see people
going to launch their businesses. Kaylor with our daily bag,
our song lines, amazing stuff she's doing, and so yeah,
it's just incredible. It still takes me back that these
are just other mob. When you grow up as a
(35:49):
black fellow, sometimes you think you're alone. You think, oh,
and I'll mix my dad's wife and im'm blackfellow. You know, yes,
I do culture, but then I do my busie stuff
over here. You know, get a job, feel a bit
isolated because you come from this very hybrid upbringing.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
But when you get chucked.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
In a room with mixed mob for blood and you
know Torus stray kannaka Bloodlines.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's so encouraging.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I was there, so I could see everybody kind
of just everyone was kind of feeding off everybody's energy, right,
It was amazing. So this is a youth forum, So
we're talking about First Nations youth. Why is it important
that we invest in and support the economic aspirations of
First Nations youth.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
So there's a guy old texting that I followed for
personal finance, and he talks about, you know, your the borrowers,
slaves to the lender. And I think in the Western
society it's built around depth. Okay, you owe me, So
this is what you've got to do to sustain that criteria.
And so as Aboriginal people, that's not really something we're
(37:00):
very like, you know, First Nation people in America. In Americas,
we're very covenant center of people. So we're like, if
you gave me your word, you know, I'll show up.
You know, if you I'll have you back, you know, brass,
no matter what happens. You know, if you go off
on a bend, I'll still come pick up. You know,
I'll still do that. And so for us, it's about
(37:21):
understanding how the system works, and then how we cannot
get entangled with things, because I think there's a lot
to get us in tangled with the sidetracked. There's a
lot of some of the my clients that I work
with now because I do consultancy after leaving BUNDL so
helping other Aboriginal businesses with their branding and different things
that I did with bund. It's about finding the perfect
(37:41):
balance between activism and social change, but also then making
getting in the black with the business. And so if
you get on one side on the other and then
you're unbalanced, you know, community will tell you so. But
if you know too much in the in the dollars
and see everything as dollars, you're going to miss on
(38:03):
those relationships. But if you're two side on the social side,
you're not going to be able to progress conversations with
people because a lot of our second people's I like
to call them, I just ignorant. So I pulled up
a good mate the other day who was scanning Navy
and heritage and he said, yeah, but like, what percentage
are you you know? Like if you had I said, bro,
(38:25):
never ever anyone of color that question. And he's like,
what do you mean, like, because you're blonde, blue high.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
He doesn't know.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I said, well, they'd have this thing called the half
cast act and then they explaining to him, and.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah, it was mortified. He's like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
I just He's like, where would I know happed because
he grew up middle class Brizie Like, who would tell
me this?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
You know who?
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I said, no one, because no one's from that world
unless they're there on a scholarship, you know, from for sport.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
And then they're like, you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
It is And you know what, I think it's so
important that you know your people, like yourself that can
educate other people that have no idea because a lot
of us. I was one of them, right, you get
Really it's triggering. That's still today in twenty twenty one,
we as first nations people are having to justify our
(39:24):
identity to people. I've going to justify it, not just
you know, hey am aboriginal. You know it's like no,
hold a minute, are you part or are you full?
Or you know what else?
Speaker 3 (39:35):
Are you like? How?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
And for listeners listening to this conversation, it is highly offensive,
highly disrespectful, highly inappropriate, to ask anybody First Nations or
non First Nations to justify their identity to you and
you don't know them. It's not the way to start
a relationship or a conversation. For a lot of us
(40:01):
that are out there, you know, engaging with a lot
of non Indigenous people walking in two worlds, being in business,
we're having to do that as well, right, And we
choose to do it because it's something that I do
nine to five and I get into an ub and
I'm doing it again. And some of us are really
good at explaining and educating people. But it is exhausting.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
That's why I see with our old fellows who were
just they just disconnect, go walk about.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
I don't invite many of those things.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Women are so frustrated angry because our matriarchs are often
the voice in our communities, you know, according to law
al Iri, and our men quite quite reserved you doing
their things still decision makers, you know, and people just
like don't understand that that it's yeah, it can be frustrating,
but like you just said, it's you can use it.
(40:52):
And I would encourage mob if you can find that
place to use that conversation starter as a door opener
in business, Like I met with a big water provider
here today and that was the first topic.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
You know, Oh we've got rec week.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We're trying with our wrap, you know if you think
so straight away, I'm given a platform that pretty much
no other person Australia unless the Aboriginal will have because
they're not gonna be able to go knock on the
door of a big you know company that's procuring you know,
out millions of dollars and started. And so for now
that we can have that conversation and use it to advantage.
(41:31):
But like you said, it does require us to mentally
and spiritually be filling ourselves up to go out and
do it, because yeah, otherwise you'll be so drained exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
So what are you doing now? You said you've left
jun Joe parted ways there. What are you doing now?
What's keeping you busy?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
So I felt, you know, it's funny. My wife had
a dream mid last year, early last year the word Butterham, budroom,
sunshine posts and she said, I don't think that's real,
and she's found it and she's like, oh, it's one
country and for you know, for ages in Victoria. I've
always missed home, you know, the humility, the sweat, the heat,
(42:13):
you know, the limbo and beer Burham and that in
the background beaches perfect amazing and so I was always
ready to go, and so we felt to move last
year back to country. And then in that time my clan,
but then Dumby Clan, have started to not distance ourselves
(42:35):
from a lot of Native title stuff that's going on.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
But just say is there is there a better way?
You know, is there a better way to do this?
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And so it's not so divisive, right.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
That's yeah, that's it because everyone sees it as like
in kwonder Muca, you know who are doing amazing stuff
like Kwondu Muka. You can see you go there, you
go across the road the old town hall with the
elders and then you got the five star heigh you know,
high end amazing resort. So can someone explain to me
how that is an outcome that I want my people
(43:08):
to achieve. So our mindset, with our planners will still
be involved with native title, but now we're going to
create and all inclusive for all too groups based on
Cob Cob Country to be involved in a business conversation
that puts us all in the same room like a
you know know, mini chamber of commerce or a mini
(43:29):
business group. And you know, I go to a few
of the wa follow ones here and theret me doing
it for decades. So what do you think when they
go to build roads, develop housing estates, build dams, who
do you think wins the work? You know, they were
chosen two three years before the project drops. And so
we need to shape our mind to say, all right,
(43:50):
we need to be in those conversations for long term
for you know, we get this business up and running
and our children will take it, you know, even further.
And so coming back to country, that was one of
the main objectives is to get Kubby Cubbybuby business up
and running so that we have this advocacy body which
talks the community and then in between then to help
(44:13):
pay the bills. I work with a few clients Victoria
in Queensland, New South Wales helped out consulting on their
branding because everyone likes like what I did with Bundel. Yeah,
and they also have my little podcast not as good
as yours.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
I'll catch you one day.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
So I've got up to about thirty six thirty seven episodes,
just interviewing other people around social entrepreneurship. Yeah, what's it black,
black and whites. It's called Deadly Discussions podcast.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Deadly Discussions And can people just download that on like Spotify?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, on Spotify podcast platforms, yeah, on it is a
stitcher and a few other ones as well. So yeah,
I was doing that as because I'm probably you probably
the same feedback. I would be talking at events on
panels and just talking to other people and one of
my guys was like, man, you should just record this
(45:07):
and upload it, and so I did it. So it's
super raw, super authentic, just real, you know, we record it, bang,
put it up, snip snip, that's it, you know, And
so I haven't put much stuff in it, but it's
it's cool.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
It's and that as well as example in itself.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
You know, I've only got you know, I saw you'll
posted that about twenty thousand downloads probably high now, but
so mine's on two thousand. But the doors that it
opens is just incredible and I encourage more. But it
doesn't matter the size of like your your marketing or
even budget or getting out there. Sometimes you feel like, oh,
(45:44):
that was just a waste of time. But you never know,
you never know who's listening or who's watching eye And
so you find people on like LinkedIn, right who are
like C suite CFO CEOs and you're like at an event,
right and everyone's in suits black tie. They're like, mate,
you know, I love your work and I just want
to say your podcast is great, you know, keep it up.
(46:05):
And they're like, I want to pay sex companies see
cr phone.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
You're like, why are you listening to my podcast?
Speaker 1 (46:10):
How did you hear about my podcast? I know, I
don't need to be kind of shame, right, you go,
oh my god, no, I know.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
So it's just like you just yeah, you just like
stand it another mob. You try different things. I see
sister girls and some brother boys they're doing like stuff
on TikTok, like and you're reaching people in the corporate world. Yeah,
and so you just never know who's watching and who's listening.
So it always just be yourself, you know, don't worry
about it. And you know, finding that value system I
(46:38):
think as well is really important, you know, from you
know culture the positives, because you know a lot of
people try to soociate a lot of negatives of our culture.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah, but you know it's about to taking those positives.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
I hear. All right, So listen, I got one last
question before we wrap up. Yes, what is your fifty
year vision? Because I know with the Futures Forum it
was about looking fifty years and planning fifty years ahead
of us. So what is your fifty year vision for
the indigenous business sector?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah? Sure, So I put mine from so I played.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
I worked in Elston Wick corefields around a very Jewish area.
I even played soccer for the mccabi, the Jewish team
for two seasons, and so I had this immersion of culture, right,
and they all thought I was Jewish. They would call
me Jitsak, which is my name in Israeli, and that
abused me.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
And is you know Jewish? I mean Israeli. I would
remember clue what's going on.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
So one day one of them was like, hey, like,
you're a better know how to say like you're an Aboriginal.
I said, yeah, is that like a problem, Like no,
we're so happy we've never had like an indigenous person
playing our team. And so I had this connection into
their culture. And I would speak at panels at a
synagogue and different things like that. But one thing they
(47:52):
did so well coming out of like World War two
and other places where they've been persecuted, is they were
just up through.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
They would plant themselves in a new area.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
They would all work with each other, they'd buy off
each other's businesses. They would try to get our school
going with one of the mums or that running it,
the dad's running it. So they would internally look to
how they could touch, you know, touch points with other
black fellows as much as possible.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
You know, Okay, I've got an event.
Speaker 2 (48:21):
So I'll get a brother boy here, I've got to
get a car, get that with such and such car,
you know, And they would everything was connected, and then
over time you've just got this economic and social and
positive benefit just circulating through like.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
A black economy, like a black economy.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
And so that's my vision is getting our mob to
maturity where we can and then if there are disputes,
we can have some sort of system that's culturally appropriate
where we can say, hey, Bras, you know, you said
you're going to do this contract, and you let down
such and such, you know, And so we have this
internaling and not let external culture dictate on what we
(49:04):
do and what we don't do because we do have
systems of law and cultural you.
Speaker 1 (49:09):
Know, obligations, obligation.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Believe obligations.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
But then we also have mob who are very you know,
Christian Judaic in their law ali so they believe in
a creative God and son and spirits. And then we
have other mob who are very paganistic in their law,
you know, medicine, menuage, doctor, spirit, serpents, and so you've
got to you know, everyone get along three hundred plast
(49:34):
nation sort of thing. But I would imagine fifty years
fingers crossed, that would what would look like that We've
got this national economy where we're not just looking at
indigenous for kurment policies to go get a chunk of change.
We're like, okay to turnover from working with governments two bill,
but you know we circulated you know, ten bill in
(49:57):
our own economy. That's new homes, cars, education, you know, holidays,
you know, investing social impact and so that would be
like my vision and I'm like, yeah, just super stoked
to see how that unfold. And because I did coming
into Bunjol, I was on the tail end of the
twenty sixteen, seven seventeen, so I was on the tail
(50:17):
end of twenty fifteen with the IPP launched. So when
I went to my first supply nation connect, I was
at the tail end of like the gen I'd like
to call Gen one Aboriginal business. So you had a
lot of jvs. You had a lot of like unsure
about what is this? You know, you know, what is
this thing? And so I was coming on the tail
end of that and into the new generation of Aboriginal
(50:39):
people who are now in business and going, hang on, oh,
there's this thing called and vision for kurement or social fulfillment.
And so I was in this really cool spot. And
the one thing as well, with our mom we might
be a bit hard on themselves. And I finished with
this is you know this recession on what's correct, you know,
COVID done is it's caused this a first real recession
for our sector. And so I think our mob can
(51:01):
be a bit hard on themselves. And I just say,
you know, we've gone through so many trials and tribulations
like we've got this.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, I love it. Well, look on that note, I
just want to say it's been an absolute pleasure to
have a year with you, because we have never yarned
before I know each other.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
At a distance, I don't know like I know.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
You, but I don't know you so like, I just
want to say, thank you so much for everything that
we've yarned about. And it's just amazing that a lot
of our our mob, like yourself, are doing you know,
so much more than I thought. Like I had no
idea that you had a podcast. I had no idea
that you're doing other stuff and you're part of with Bunjo,
So there's so much that I've just learned. I didn't
(51:42):
even know you were at the Futures Forum and I
was there too, So I just want to say, look,
thank you so much for being part of the IBA
partnership series with Black Magic Women. And I just want
to say, can't wait to actually meet you now that
I'm here on.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
So you're down near the Old Fellas.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yes, so you and I I will have to catch
out pay I'll make sure after this podcast I reach
out to you and let's have a yarn. No worries,
but thank you so much, and I guess we will speak.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Soon, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Thanks now, eys, we're rather have an amazing afternoon.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
I will thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
How amazing like literally we're talking about history, talking about
articles that I read just this morning about the history
of blackbirding, which is slavery here in Queensland, and like
I said, something that our Prime Minister wants to deny,
but there's a whole lot of evidence there. And I
just hope that people start to really try and understand
(52:46):
the fact that aberysnall and touch under people as well
as solves down under people. What we've been through to
be able to do what we do today and to
participate in society today, and like I said, and some
of the things that hold us back from reaching our
full potential, but also despite all of the odds that
are a gangst us, that we're still able to kind
(53:08):
of smash things, set businesses up and do things that
we want to do. And I love when we can
do business on our terms of reference. That's what's important
to me as an average woman who's in business, that
we participate at the table. We have a seat at
the table, but we participate on our terms. So I
(53:29):
hope you enjoyed that yarn And until next time, by
for now, if you'd like to know more about IBA
and how they can help you to own your own home,
start or grow a business or invest in your future.
Visit IBA dot gov dot au or free call one
eight hundred one zero seven one zero s. Don't forget
(53:51):
to follow black Magic Woman podcasts on all social media platforms.
To keep up to date with the latest episodes and
use head to black magic Woman dot com dot au.
You can rate and review the podcast on iTunes, and
please feel free to share the podcast with your family
and friends.
Speaker 3 (54:12):
H
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