Debbie Cook Breaks Ranks and Exposes David Miscavige's Torturous Deeds - Secrets of Scientology #10 - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Blown for
Good, Scientology Exposed.
As usual, I am joined by mylovely wife, Claire.

SPEAKER_03 (00:33):
Yay.
We're back.

SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
We didn't go there.
We were here last week.

SPEAKER_03 (00:38):
I know, but we're back again.

SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
Yeah.
Um Yeah, today's video is goingto be a deep dive into an email
that was sent by a woman namedDebbie Cook, and Debbie Cook
will explain all the differentthings of where she was and all
that.
But she was basically the headof Scientology in Clearwater for

(01:01):
the most part.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02):
Yeah, she was the public face of Scientology in
Clearwater for 17 years.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Yeah, but she was also the boss.
Yes.
Like she could walk around andtell people to get some get some
getting.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15):
Yeah.
And she she got into Scientologywhen she was 14 years old,
joined the Sea Organization whenshe was 17 years old, and I want
to say I she spent twenty-nineyears in the sea organization.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27):
Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
That's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
But she was for a short period of time, I want to
say it was like in was it 2007?
2007 when she went to Int?

SPEAKER_05 (01:38):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
In 2007.
Because everybody who worked atthe Int base, Miscavige deemed
unuseful to him.
He was bringing people fromother Scientology Seawork bases
from all over the place, mainlyfrom LA and mainly from Florida.

SPEAKER_05 (01:56):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
And um she was one of those people.
And it didn't take very long forher to end up with the the the
other bunch of people that wereuseless to him.

SPEAKER_04 (02:05):
It never does.

SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Yeah.
Yeah, we've seen it in the 15years that we were there, we saw
this.

SPEAKER_04 (02:10):
We got pretty jaded by the end.

SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:12):
It was just like, oh, let's start a timer.

SPEAKER_01 (02:15):
Yeah.
Oh, you got some new hotshotshere from Florida.
Oh, good.
I'll give them a week two, Max,before they're cleaning paint
buckets for me.

SPEAKER_04 (02:24):
Yeah.
But oh, but hold on.
Before we get into it, I wantedto take a few minutes.

unknown (02:29):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (02:30):
We included a link.
So last week we were talkingabout Scientology's Kangaroo
Court arbitration.
And uh Leah Remini put out avery extensive post on her
Substack this week detailing uhthe monstrosity that that is.
Um it's well worth the read.
I've included the link in thevideo description.

(02:52):
And then one other one otherthing.

SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Oh, shout out to Claire just taking up, just
preloading the whole show herewith goodies.

SPEAKER_04 (02:59):
Shelton put out a new book this week or last week
for uh April 20th.
So Monday, this past Monday.
What now?
A practical guide to life aftera cult.
Just started reading it.
So anyway, congrats on that toChris, and I've included the
link for that too.

SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Cool.

SPEAKER_04 (03:16):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Awesome.
Now at the end of this video,we're gonna do a giveaway.
I want to say this right upfront because if you comment,
you're automatically entered into win the giveaway.
And before we do that, likeright when we do that, we're
also gonna announce who won thereplay crew giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 (03:33):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Claire's got this.
Well, thanks to Dr.

SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
X.

SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Dr.
X donated a ton of uh Mike andLeah bobbleheads, so you get to
pick which one of those youwant.
And um, yeah, we got a bunch ofthem to give away.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (03:46):
Yes, we do.
So thank you for the doctors.
You guys know me.
I always love a giveaway.

SPEAKER_01 (03:52):
She does she loves a giveaway.
She loves it.
Um okay, should we get to it?

SPEAKER_04 (03:58):
Yes, let's get to it.

SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
Okay, and we make sure we had a little little some
little technical nonsense beforethis.
So we did.
Let's hope it doesn't happen,but I'm gonna go back to here.
There you go.
There we go.
Happy hoo-ha.
Okay, you you read hoo-ha, yeah.
I run it.

SPEAKER_04 (04:17):
Yeah, okay.
So, first of all, again, justsetting it up.

SPEAKER_01 (04:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
So Debbie Cook.

SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Well, it says in the slides.

SPEAKER_04 (04:24):
Okay.
Yeah, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_04 (04:26):
Golly, just Okay, who is Debbie Cook?
Former high-ranking Scientologyexecutive, got into Scientology
at 14, joined the C organizationat 17.
She was confined in the hole forseven weeks in 2007, which was
two years after we escaped.

SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (04:42):
She signed a severance agreement to leave
staff later that year.

SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
So when when you escape from the base, they
usually want to get you back.

SPEAKER_05 (04:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
And if they can't get you back, then they gotta
button up any loose ends andmake sure that you don't say
nothing about nothing.

SPEAKER_04 (04:59):
Yep.
And so of course, with no legalrepresentation of your own, and
you've been isolated from theoutside world for decades.
So at that point you're like,whatever.
Well, I'm just gonna GTFO.

SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Yes.
Yeah.
But when you sign thosedocuments, there's nothing in
those documents that prevent youfrom from exposing something
that's illegal.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (05:24):
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (05:24):
So that's a little teeny bit of a loophole in this
thing, because even if you signan NDA and pe they're torturing
people and kidnapping people andlocking them up, uh false
imprisonment, then you couldtalk about that.
There's not there's nothing thatsays you can't talk about that.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (05:41):
Right.
But Scientology banks on a Seorcmember not being aware of that.

SPEAKER_02 (05:46):
That's right.

SPEAKER_04 (05:47):
Yeah.
Okay.
Um that includes so theagreement that Debbie signed
included an agreement to neverspeak ill of the church.

SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Um That's another key thing.

SPEAKER_04 (06:00):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
In this email, she's not speaking ill of the church
majority.
She's speaking ill about DavidMiscavige specifically.

SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Which I don't know.
That was probably in there too.

SPEAKER_04 (06:15):
Probably.

SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
But she was she was trying to spin it like
Scientology's awesome, but thisguy's ruining it.
And these are all the thingshe's doing to ruin it.
That's a that's my recollectionof the whole email.

SPEAKER_04 (06:26):
Yeah, and we'll get into the details of it.
I will warn you that this emailis written as a Scientologist
writing to Scientologists.
So uh anyway, well, you know,again, we'll get into it.
But this is a this to me, that'sa huge part of what was so why

(06:47):
this had such a huge impact.
So she sent this on New Year'sEve, 2011, going into 2012.
And by January 27th, 2012,Debbie was sued by Scientology
for this email.
So that just to me points to theimpact uh this had on a year.

SPEAKER_01 (07:10):
And and also they haven't sued anybody for many,
many years.

SPEAKER_04 (07:14):
And I don't think they may not I think this is the
last time they sued somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (07:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
And they didn't sue any many people many years
before that.

SPEAKER_05 (07:23):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
They threaten legal action nonstop to anybody who
talks out talks about them orwrites an article or publishes a
book or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 (07:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
But they never do anything.

SPEAKER_04 (07:35):
Right.
Like even in the spy files, Ithink you talked about that they
had drafted a lawsuit againstus.

SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
Yeah.
For me writing posts on theinternet.

SPEAKER_04 (07:45):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Just before I get a book or anything.

SPEAKER_04 (07:47):
But they never filed it.

SPEAKER_01 (07:49):
Yeah.
They they but it was all readyto go.

SPEAKER_04 (07:52):
Yes.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
Another thing they do is they use that, that they
have a complaint that they'redrafting.
They use that to then hireprivate investigators, and it's
sort of like a checklist stepfor Scientology.
Okay, good.
They said this.
Okay, good.
Let's draft a complaint letterfor a lawsuit.
And as soon as they do that, nowthey hire private investigators

(08:14):
and they they do other things,covert and overt operations on
their end, to and and justifythat by saying, well, we're in
the middle of preparing alawsuit against this person.
That's why we're doing that.
So they they try to cover theirtracks in terms of somebody
says, hey, these PIs have beenfalling, these private
investigators have followed meeverywhere.

(08:34):
And then if you complain to lawenforcement, then law
enforcement goes to them andthey say, Oh, yeah, we're trying
to sue this person, we'regathering information.
So they know how to play thegame.

SPEAKER_04 (08:44):
Yes.
So after her testimony,Scientology wanted to pursue a
settlement.
Debbie and her husband consultedwith other former Scientologists
who had been through litigationand were encouraged to settle.
Um and then we have this notelitigation can also be extremely
re-traumatizing for victims ofabuse, which we'll be seeing
today in Debbie's testimony.

(09:05):
Um victims should always beempowered to choose the route
that is best for them.

SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
Yeah.
So now here's the thing that'skind of ironic about this is
that she said as much as shecould say that would hurt them
in the day of the testimony.

SPEAKER_02 (09:22):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
So it wasn't like she had n uh uh five hundred
things to talk about and now sheonly got to talk about two.
She talked about a hundredthings.
And she didn't have much morethat would have been more
damning than the hundred thingsthat she kind of brought up and
talked about.
And um and then the testimonywas like when would so in the

(09:46):
lawsuit, she had to go on thestand and then get asked
questions.
And the answers to thosequestions were horrible.
And also not those weren't inthe email that she sent.

SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (10:00):
So these are all new this is all new information in
addition to this comprehensiveemail that she wrote.

SPEAKER_05 (10:06):
Exactly.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
Okay.
Um and we'll show a little bitof that video too.
Yeah.
As well.
We have that testimony.

SPEAKER_04 (10:15):
We've linked to the testimony and then also um media
interviews that she did aroundthat time.

SPEAKER_01 (10:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (10:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
Yeah.
She was on a world tour for likefor like a hot New York minute.
And then and also the I want tosay the ex-scientology community
was sort of in force and inworking to help her.
Like there it was theex-scientologist that hooked her

(10:43):
up with the right lawyer, andthey and it was a lot of behind
the scenes.
We were at a party at new on NewYear's.
Yeah.
We were at a party, and and Iremembered the town.
I couldn't remember it lastweek.
It's Port Arthur.

SPEAKER_05 (10:56):
Oh, yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
Port Arthur, Texas.
We were at a party.

SPEAKER_05 (10:59):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
And um the I want to say there was like 20, 25
ex-members there, at least.

SPEAKER_04 (11:06):
At least.
Pro probably more like 30 to 40.
There were a bunch of peoplethat we knew, and then a bunch
of people that we'd never metbefore.
Yeah.
But also we should mention thatin the video, in the testimony
that we should show, theattorney representing Debbie
Cook is Ray Jeffrey, who ofcourse is one of the founding
board members of the Michael J.

(11:27):
Rinder Aftermath Foundation.
Amazing guy.

SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Yeah.
So this was all beingorchestrated, I want to say, for
a day or two up until NewYear's.

SPEAKER_04 (11:38):
Yeah, all more than that.
Well, yeah.
I think it had been in the worksfor like Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:41):
Well, her writing it and everything.
But but the amount of peoplethat were like, okay, how do we
get this out?
And between all of the peoplethat were at that party, we were
able to cobble together theemail list of all Scientologists
that are at the highest levels,the operating Phaeton levels,
which are that's really ifyou're not a C org member in

(12:04):
Scientology, then that's how thehierarchy of members is, is who
is highest on the chart and theOT8 and OT7, those are the two
top tiers where pretty most ofthe richy rich and the powerful
Scientologists.
They're either on OT7 or they'reon OT8.
And they're the ones that alsoget special briefings from David

(12:24):
Miscavige, and they get a lot ofperks, but they also get hounded
heavily to get other peopledoing Scientology or to just
donate millions of dollars.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (12:35):
Yeah.
And also all of those peopleknew the name Debbie Cook.

SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, you couldn't do OT7 or OT
eight without going to Florida.
And those same people areheavily kind of managed by the
higher ups in the Clearwaterlocation and at the
international headquarters tokind of massage how they're
doing to make sure that they'rehaving their best time there in

(13:03):
Florida so they can give us somemore dough meat.

SPEAKER_05 (13:06):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Okay.
Um there's a little bit less.

unknown (13:11):
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Uh no.
Debbie and her husband, do yousay that?
Yep, I covered that.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (13:16):
All right.
So this is the beginning of theemail.

SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
We're gonna try to.
I mean, you can read the wholething.
We're gonna kind of skip throughall these different parts, but
um we're gonna try to explainthe Scientologies as we go.

SPEAKER_05 (13:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:30):
Claire will read it and I'll jump in with what that
means.

SPEAKER_04 (13:34):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
If if if we need if needed.

SPEAKER_04 (13:37):
Yeah.
Dear friend, I'm emailing you asa friend and fellow
Scientologist.
As we enter a new year, it ishoped that 2012 can be a year of
great dissemination and a yearof real progress up the bridge
for all Scientologists.
Although I'm not in the Sea Orgright now, I served in the Sea
Org at Flag for 29 years.

(13:58):
Seventeen of those years were asCaptain Flag Service
Organization.
I'm a trained auditor and casesupervisor, as well as an OEC
organization executive course,FEBC Flag Executive Briefing
Course, and DSEC, Data SeriesEvaluators Course.

SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
These are all like if you've done these, if you're
in the C org and you've done anyone of these, you're basically
like your shit don't stink.
You need to know everythingthere is or note that Hubbard
wrote about doing that specificsort of area of Scientology.
And the OEC is really for theadministration of the

(14:43):
organization.
The FEBC is like the technical.

SPEAKER_04 (14:49):
No, it's the executive series.
Oh, yeah, flag exact briefingcourse.
Yes, exactly.
It's the it's basically so inlayman's terms, this means that
Debbie was highly trained notonly in technical like
counseling delivery ofScientology, but also as trained
as you can be as trained in L.

(15:11):
Ron Hubbard's organizationaltechnology.

SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
Yeah.
And she not only did she do oneof those things, she did three
of those things.

SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
So that's kind of like You couldn't there there
were no other executive trainingcourses beyond that.

SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
She did everything you could do.

SPEAKER_04 (15:28):
Yep.
I am completely dedicated to thetechnology of Dianetics and
Scientology and the works of L.
Ron Hubbard.
I have seen most of I've seensome of the most stunning and
miraculous results in theapplication of L.
Ron Hubbard technology, and Iabsolutely know it is worth
fighting to keep it pure andunadulterated.

(15:49):
My husband and I are in goodstanding, and we are not
connected with anyone who is notin good standing.
She was not at this New Year'sparty, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
She wasn't.

SPEAKER_04 (16:00):
We have steadfastly refused to speak to any media,
even though many have contactedus.
So again, this introduction isvery carefully stated in such a
way that a Scientologistreceiving this email won't just
keep reading.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
They won't put their blinders down.
And now I do also want to saysomething.
She says in there that shewasn't in contact with anyone
who was not in good standing.
And I'm not going to say who shewas talking to, but she was
talking to somebody that was ingood standing at this time.
They were talking, that personwas talking to everybody else

(16:39):
and was their conduit to the tothis other ex-scientologist.

SPEAKER_04 (16:43):
She was applying a little bit of the Scientology
acceptable truth policy there.

SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
Yeah.
Well, but she was.
She was only talking to whoevershe was talking to.
I almost said it.
Um she wasn't she was talking tothis person.
And then that person was talkingto us and every other sort of
person who knew stuff and knewwhere things were and and knew
how to to get some stuff done inthat universe.

SPEAKER_04 (17:08):
Anyway, but then and of course, in regards to the
media, Scientology sued herbarely three weeks later, at
which point all bets were off.

SPEAKER_01 (17:17):
Well, yeah, and also as soon as you're getting sued
by them, you're probably not ingood standing anymore.
But uh but officially, I don'tknow that they ever issued
anything because they made adeal with her.
So it's kind of like also,depending on who you are and
what kind of deal you make withthem, they can just say, you

(17:39):
can't do this, you can't dothat, you can't do this, you
can't do that.
And then if you want the thesettlement and for them to leave
you alone and write you a bigfat check, then you gotta play
along with that.
Some people say, no, no, no, no.
I'm gonna do whatever I want.
I'm gonna talk to whoever Iwant.
I'm not gonna talk smack aboutyou guys anymore in the media or

(18:01):
on the internet, but you're notgonna tell me who to talk to and
who to not to.
And sometimes, depending onwho's holding more cards,
Scientology would be like, okay,fine.
But if you say anything on theinternet, you post anything on
social media, anything, we'regonna light you back up again.

SPEAKER_05 (18:15):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Okay.
And so, yeah, this is very key.
If if you were, if I wrote thisemail to these guys, they would
be like, oh, that guy's an SP.
Right.
Even they even if they just sawthe email, they would be like,
Nope, I'm out.

SPEAKER_04 (18:31):
Yeah.
Like honestly, to me, readingthis is a bit cringe.
But well, sure.

SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
But but also you gotta dig that in Scientology.
In Scientology, there is it's sothe brainwashing is so deep that
sometimes you have to tell thepeople, hey, listen, I'm not
against Scientology and thetechnology.
Right.
But L.
Ron Hubbard and David Miscavigewere up to some some heinous
nonsense.
Yes, and they completely they'renot they they're they're

(18:58):
wrecking the whole thing andthey're doing this and they're
doing that.
It's a whole it's horrible.
Yeah.
Even if you just say DavidMiscavige, let's leave Hubbard
out of it.
You say just David Miscavige isup to no good.
Then they're and they know thisbecause they're they're
experiencing it.
Right.
So it's not a it's not astretch.

SPEAKER_02 (19:13):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (19:14):
But then when they when they stop going to the
church and they stop giving themmoney and they start reading
stuff on the internet, then theysort of come to realize, oh,
this whole thing was a bunch ofnonsense.
So there's stages of this thatthat it make it's I don't know
how to say it.
It it basically gives them asofter landing if they go in

(19:35):
stages.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Not everybody watches South Parkand just is like, yippee guy,
we're out of here, forget you.
Not everybody does that.
Some of these people are mostdon't actually.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Well, yeah.
Um most of these people havespent at least decades and
millions of dollars inScientology, their whole
families and it's a big it's abig step to read an email like

(19:55):
this and be like Yeah, the sunkthe sunk cost fallacy aspect is
very real.

SPEAKER_04 (20:00):
But yeah, this this email is Scientology language to
wake people up.

SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (20:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Totally.
And and and somebody postedthis.
This is a good I don't knowwhere it is now, it's gone.
But this would be like if shewas a priest and she had read
everything that was in theBible, everything that was uh
written, said, anything aboutanything in the church that she

(20:31):
would need to know about thatshe'd done that in Scientology.
There was no more informationthat she could get from Elvon
Hubbard on how Scientology wassupposed to work.

SPEAKER_04 (20:40):
Right.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (20:44):
But I do have some very serious concerns about out
KSW, which is keep re referenceto keeping Scientology working
and basically means things arenot being run as Hubbard
intended them to be.

SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
It's a policy that Hubbard wrote that's the
beginning of every singleScientology course or counseling
thing that you need to readdocuments for.
It's at the beginning of everysingle one of those.
And you have to read it everysingle time.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:11):
We did a deep dive video on that too.
That policy.

SPEAKER_01 (21:15):
For new folks.

SPEAKER_04 (21:16):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (21:17):
Yes, we have done a video.
Can you make a note to put thatin the link in the description?

SPEAKER_04 (21:22):
I sure can.

SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
And then um So, okay.
So basically it's the 10 pointsof keeping Scientology working.

SPEAKER_04 (21:30):
So about OutKSW that I see permeating the Scientology
religion.
I have the utmost respect forthe thousands of dedicated
Scientologists and Seorgmembers.
Together, we have come througheverything this world could
throw at us and have some realimpingement on the world around
us.
I am proud of ouraccomplishments and I know you

(21:50):
are too.
However, there is no questionthat this new age of continuous
fundraising is not our finestmoment.
Ellery, Says in the policyletter and essay on management,
drop no curtains between theorganization and the public
about anything.

SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Trevor Burrus Okay, now I gotta say something about
this, too.
If you're a Scientologist andyou're trying to tell another
Scientologist that we're not weshouldn't do this or this is not
okay or whatever, you quote L.
Ron Hubbard policy.
Yes.

SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
So it's basically like uh you can't even interpret
it because that would beclassified as a crime because
you're it's verbal tech.
Yeah, you can't say You're notallowed to say L.
Ron Hubbard says blah, blah,blah.
You have to quote it exactly.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
That's exactly right.
So it's sort of like in a in alawsuit when you say, hey, we
we're doing this and the reasonwe're suing this is because this
happened, and then they cite thecase.
In Scientology, you cite the L.
Ron Hubbard passage or policyletter that pertains to this.

SPEAKER_04 (22:54):
Yep, exactly.
And if you include a verbalinterpretation of your
understanding of the policy, theScientologists will tune out and
stop listening.

SPEAKER_02 (23:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (23:05):
Based on this policy, I'm communicating to you
about some situations that weneed to do something about
within our religion, within ourgroup.
Actions that are either notcovered in policy or directly
violate LRH policy and techinclude the extreme
over-regging, which is refers tothe registrar who's the person
who collects money when you gointo a Scientology organization,

(23:29):
over-regging and fundraisingactivities that have become so
much a part of nearly every Corg organization and class five
organization, as well as everyOT committee.
This fundraising is not coveredanywhere in LRH policy.
Do we want to cover OTcommittee?

SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Well, it's basically you've got the Scientology
organization that has employees,they call them staff members,
and then you have the Corganization, those are the
billion-year contract folks.
And then you have these publicmembers, these uh uh civilian
Scientologists will call them.
And they they don't they don'twork for Scientology.

(24:12):
They don't they're not theydon't have a job there most of
the time.
Sometimes those people are alsoa staff member or a C org member
if they're an OT, high OT.

SPEAKER_04 (24:22):
A lot of them do have the assigned hat a field
staff member, which means thatthey're responsible to bring new
people in.

SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (24:30):
But but it's not a contract per se.
It's just a responsibility thatthey have.

SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
Yeah.
And then the other thing thatthey that these specific members
have is called an OT the jobtitle they have is OT
ambassador.
So they are because they're anoperating fate in level seven or
eight or six or whatever theyare, then they are supposed to
get other people in Scientologyup to the same place they are.

(24:57):
And that's that's that's theirjob.
That's their uh unofficial jobin Scientology, and the a group
of those people in a certainarea comprise an OT committee.

SPEAKER_04 (25:11):
Exactly.
Yep.
Hardworking Sea Org members andthe dedicated staff of orgs
around the world aren't choosingto do these actions, nor are the
OTs.
I'm sure they would be more thanhappy if they could just get on
with direct dissemination ofScientology as they have done
for so many years.
But the truth is that this isbeing driven from the very

(25:33):
highest echelons within theScientology structure, and
clearly there is a lot ofpressure to make targets that
are being set.
The IAS, the InternationalAssociation of Scientologists,
was created unbeknownst to L.
Ron Hubbard in 1984 by MarkYeager and David Miscavige.
This was supposed to be based onHubbard policies on the subject

(25:56):
of membership and the HASI,which is the Hubbard, what is
it, uh, Association ofScientologists International,
like an earlier membershipconcept that was written about
by Hubbard.

SPEAKER_01 (26:10):
Yeah, but in the early days, the when you paid
that membership, it went to thatorganization that you worked at.

SPEAKER_04 (26:16):
Right.
Which this that's going to becovered.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Golly G.
Wilkers Batman.

SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
However, the IAS is not the International
Association of Scientologists isnothing like the membership
system described by Hubbard,which only has two memberships
and is covered in the followingpolicy.
All right, we're good.
Uh current promotion and orgprogram summary, membership
rundown, and states, quote,there are two memberships,

(26:42):
unquote.
Hubbard lists there theinternational annual membership
and gives its cost at 10 poundssterling or 30 US dollars.
He also lists a lifetimemembership, which is a which is
priced at$75 US.

SPEAKER_01 (27:00):
Scientology charge is it$5,000?

SPEAKER_04 (27:03):
I think so.
At least it was when we werethere.
It's probably gone up by now.
Uh there are no there are noother memberships or statuses
approved or known to Hubbard.
Furthermore, membership moniesare supposed to go directly to
the org where the membership issigned up and the money used for
dissemination by thatorganization in that area.

(27:26):
This is covered in the policymembership policies.
Quote It all goes into the HCObook account, which is reference
to just one of the bank accountsthat Hubbard authorized.

SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Which is a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (27:39):
A lot.
God, I feel sorry for whoeverhas to reconcile those.
So it all goes into the HCO bookaccount in the area where the
membership is brought and is notpart of the organization's
weekly gross income.
Membership monies go todissemination.
Unquote.
Hubbard.

(28:00):
All right, we're good.

SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (28:04):
Currently, membership monies are held at
int reserves and have grown towell in excess of a billion
dollars.
Only a tiny fraction has everbeen spent in violation of the
policy above.
Only the interest earned fromthe holdings have been used very
sparingly to fund projectsthrough grants.

(28:26):
In fact, many of the activitiesyou see at IAS events are not
actually funded by the IAS, butrather by the Scientologists
involved.
Think about it.
How many ads disseminatingScientology, Dianetics, or any
Scientology-affiliated programshave you seen on TV?
Heard on the radio, seen innewspapers.

(28:48):
I haven't seen one in the fouryears I have lived in San
Antonio, Texas, the seventhlargest city in the U.S.
How many have you seen?
Donating anything more than alifetime membership to the IES
is not based on policy.
The article, quote, what yourdonations buy, unquote, the
auditor, the monthly journal theauditor is a magazine.

(29:10):
Um the monthly journal ofScientology number 51 from 1970
is clearly talking about how thechurch uses your donations for
Dianetics and Scientologyservices.
Next time you're asked to donateoutside of services, realize
that you are engaging infundraising and asked to see

(29:32):
something in writing fromHubbard that this is something
he expects from you as aScientologist.

SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Yeah.
So when they have these events,these IAS events, they never
talk about this.
They never talk about uh this uhmembership and all that, but
they do talk about all thepeople who have achieved the
next membership level.
Because now they have this likethis platinum meritorious, which

(30:02):
somebody told me is a mil Ithink it's a million bucks.

SPEAKER_05 (30:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
So um they they don't say what that money is
gonna go to, it just goes intothe IES war chest.
But the I the IAS directed byMiscavige is never and maybe
even Hubbard, there's policiesthat Hubbard wrote about what
money should be spent and whichmonies shouldn't.
And they s they basically justapplied that from that thing to

(30:29):
the IAS.
Even though he wasn't talkingabout the IAS, they use that so
that they only spend the onlymoney that they spend is the
interest earned on the capital.
Yes.
And each year, as they add morecapital to the account, then
they get more interest to spend.
And over the years, you know,depending on how they have it

(30:50):
set up, they have it in gold andstocks and whatever.
But then whatever they make onit, that's the amount they're
allowed to spend.

SPEAKER_04 (30:58):
Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
And let's let's just pause for aminute to point out, too.
So Debbie's email says theirreserves have grown to well in
excess of a billion dollars.
Okay, but Debbie's knowledge ofwhat was in reserves was from
2007.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (31:14):
But also it was only in IAS, not everything else.

SPEAKER_05 (31:18):
Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
So if the IAS had a billion, then they had a few
billion other in other places.
And that and now in 20 I mean,they they've gotta have a time.

SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
The time that I was um internal executive in
Religious Technology Center in2004, RTC alone, which is uh was
30 staff, had in ec had just hituh 30 million in reserves just
for that one small organization.

SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (31:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (31:52):
Wild.
Okay, next.
Or did I already flip it?

SPEAKER_04 (31:56):
No, you need to flip it.

SPEAKER_01 (31:57):
I need to flip it.

SPEAKER_04 (31:59):
New org buildings.
Hubbard also never directed thepurchase of opulent buildings or
the posh renovations orfurnishings for every
organization.
In fact, if you read policyletter the ideal org, which is
what this program has beencalled, and nowhere in it.

SPEAKER_01 (32:19):
I was just putting that up.
It was it was a good comment bySpanglish.

SPEAKER_04 (32:22):
Okay, good.
And nowhere in it will you findtwenty million dollar buildings
or even any reference to theposhness of org premises at all
as part of Hubbard's descriptionof an quote ideal org.
Instead, an ideal org was onethat delivered and moved people
up the bridge, something that isnot part of this ideal org

(32:43):
program, right?
Which is why we call them idleorgs.
Hubbard says in the policy,ideal org, quote, would be clean
and attractive enough not torepel its public, unquote.
This is all it says about thestate of the building.

SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
Yeah.
And in in fact, for decades anddecades and decades, when
Scientology was getting peoplein and people were signing up
for courses and counseling andall that, during those times,
most of these places wereshitholes.
Yep.
And some of them had an oldbuilding that was kind of nice
that they kind of makeshift madework for the Scientology place,

(33:20):
or they were in a strip y'allstrip mall next to the dog
groomer, and they had a littlejust a little tiny thing there.
Um and then as they expanded,they just gobbled up other parts
of the strip mall.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Many iterations of theseorganizations, but none of them
uh well not none of them.
A majority of them did not ownthe building they were in.

(33:42):
They rented it.

SPEAKER_05 (33:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (33:44):
And they're not renovate it.
They they may have put a wall uphere or there, but in the most
part, these places were prettydown and dirty.
Even the big Scientology complexthat was in that's in L Los
Angeles and has the bigScientology sign up on it.
They that was a hospital.
That was a Cedar Sinai hospitalthat Scientology had purchased.

(34:05):
It was it was not being used bythese by Cedars anymore.
They bought that and they didvery to little renovations in
the 70s and the 80s.
They just uh turned what thehospital was in to work for
them, and they didn't changeanything.
I mean, I remember living therein one of the rooms.
It was a big giant likeoperating room or big room, just

(34:29):
a wide open room, and they justput fifty bunk beds in it, and
there you go, you got it you gota dorm.
It wasn't like they and therewas a bathroom for the for the
all those people that were inthat room.
There was a bathroom because itwas just a like a break room
bath bathroom, like you thepeople would go in there during
the day or whatever.
It wasn't uh, you know, meant toserve fifty people showering,

(34:52):
teeth brushing, hand washing.
So they didn't spend money formany, many years.
They didn't spend money uh r uhpurchasing, renovating, and
operating an ideal or a regularScientology organization.
That only came to be in theearly 2000s when David Miscavige

(35:13):
had this new plan.
And the whole reason for thatplan was that Tom Cruise was
shooting in different places.
The if you look at the first feworganizations that David
Miscavige set up, they wereMadrid, where he was, uh he s uh
Tom Cruise was, and he wastrying to bring people into the
Scientology organization.

SPEAKER_04 (35:32):
Specifically at that time, David Beckham.

SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Yeah, and Penelope's um uh family and that sort of
thing.
And the organization there wasnasty.

SPEAKER_05 (35:41):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
Then he was in New York shooting World of the
Worlds, and he was like, if thatwas a new an ideal organization,
I could bring people into thator he was trying to bring Steven
Spielberg into the organization.

SPEAKER_04 (35:52):
He was like, it's a complete shithole.
But back to this point, Hubbardwas way more specific about
having to have a building withfoot traffic nearby.
Yes.
Because in the concept ofbringing new people in, I mean,
it's you know, we're talkingthis emanated from the 60s and
70s, it hasn't moved forwardfrom that as because nothing

(36:15):
does.
But the concept was you had tohave a lot of foot traffic so
people from the staff could goout and body route bring people
in off the street.
Humans into the stri into theorganization.

SPEAKER_01 (36:28):
There's a few organizations, like I think they
have a test center in London anda test center in Los Angeles.

SPEAKER_04 (36:34):
I did body routing at the test center in London
when I was twelve.

SPEAKER_01 (36:40):
I did body routing at the Los Angeles org when I
was 10.

SPEAKER_03 (36:45):
Oh, well, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 (36:47):
Um So in Hollywood, in that big blue building that I
was talking about, the complex,what they call it, or big blue.
Um you would just walk up toSunset Boulevard, and anybody
walking up and down SunsetBoulevard, you'd say, Hey, come
on in here.
You want to wanna watch a movie?

SPEAKER_04 (37:03):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
Okay.

unknown (37:05):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (37:05):
Next.
Let's keep going.
As a result of this off-policyalteration of the ideal org
policy, we have the majority oftop OTs, now deemed OT
ambassadors, heavily engaged infundraising activities that
include bingo, pirate dinners,knitting classes, hay rides, and

(37:28):
many other activities strictlyrevolving around raising funds
for the required multi-millionsof dollars to fund their ideal
org.
As part of this, people aroundevery org are now asked to
donate to their local ideal orginstead of their own services or
their own bridge.

(37:48):
Hubbard says in the policy org,ethics and tech, quote, get rid
of distractions from Scientologyin your org, babysitting or
raffle tickets and suchnonsense, unquote.
Yet these distractions arerampant as they are being used
as fundraisers to get money forthe huge quotas being issued to
fund the ideal org.

(38:11):
Quote, if the org slumps, don'tengage in fundraising or selling
postcards or borrowing money.
Just make more income withScientology.
It's a sign of very poormanagement to seek extraordinary
solutions for finance outsideScientology.
It has always failed.
For orgs as for PCs, quote,solve it with Scientology,

(38:36):
unquote.
Every time I myself have soughtto solve financial or personnel
in other ways than Scientology,I have lost out.
So I can tell you fromexperience that org solvency
lies in more Scientology, notpatented combs or fundraising
barbecues.

SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
Yeah, so this is a huge thing because Scientology,
not only are they fundraisingyear-round, but they also have
these things called the events.
And these international eventsthat David Miscavige puts on, a
lot of the local staff have todo things to set up for that
event.
Especially in the location wherethe live event is being held.

(39:16):
So if you are let's give aperfect example of like St.
Hill where they're trying tobuild these tents and all this
other stuff, when that or whenthat event is about to come
there, they spend months gettingready for that there in the
United Kingdom.
And they spend as soon as DavidMiscavige shows up and they're
like setting up the event,whatever job you were doing

(39:40):
before is now going to belessened because you're gonna
have to help set this up or dothat, or so it takes everybody
that's working there off oftheir job and doing this, and
and that's why Al Run Hubbardspecifically said not to do
these events.
He specifically wrote a thingsaying, do not do these events,

(40:02):
because they were starting to dothem when he was still around.
And he was like, No, we're notdoing this.
This is a giant waste of timeand money, and but because that
is that became they do, I wantto say they do at least seven of
these fundraising events a yearnow that are that are set.
And they're L.
Ron Hubbard's birthday, and thenthe IAS event, and they're March

(40:25):
13th, and May 9th, and all thesedifferent things so that they
can raise money and sell thingsto Scientologists.

SPEAKER_05 (40:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Whether they're membership levels or fancy
weirdo trophies.
Um okay, we good?

SPEAKER_04 (40:40):
Yes.
All right.
The point is that Scientologistsand OTs need to be training,
auditing, and disseminating toraw public, people not in
Scientology, not regging eachother or holding internal
fundraisers.
Out tech.
So out tech is a reference toanything that's a violation of

(41:01):
Hubbard writings.
Over the last few years, we haveseen literally hundreds and
hundreds of people who werevalidated as clear using the
clear certainty rundown asdeveloped by Hubbard, now being
told they are not clear.
This included hundreds of OTswho were then put onto new era

(41:22):
dianetics as a handling, quoteunquote.
Hubbard clearly forbid anyDianetics to be run on OTs in
the HCOB, Dianetics Forbidden onOTs.
This is out tech.
This entire technical quotehandling, unquote, was directed
personally by chairman of theboard, Religious Technology

(41:44):
Center, and was done onthousands of OTs.
I was one.
But it was based not on an uhHubbard bulletin, but rather
based on a single casesupervisor instruction where LRH
CS'd one pre-OT who had notachieved the state of clear but

(42:04):
was mid-OT3 and not making it.
Hubbard directed a solo handlingthat the pre-OT was to do to get
himself to achieve the state ofclear.
Okay, this is way deepcomplicated.

SPEAKER_01 (42:17):
Basically just a technical thing in Scientology
that David Miscavige kind ofworked around, mainly because he
didn't have anything for theseguys to do.

SPEAKER_04 (42:26):
Yeah, he had no people who had gotten up to OTA.
There's there are no OT levelsabove that.
So Miscavige decided that anyonewho had said that they were Last
Life Clear was that wascanceled, and they had to go
back and do Dianetics auditing,which is much lower on the
bridge, and Hubbard said don'tever do that.

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (42:50):
But it was a way to get more money out of a lot of
people.

SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
Yeah, and that's the same reason the running program
and superpower.

SPEAKER_04 (42:57):
Cause resurgence rundown.

SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Cause resurgence rundown.
All these things are things thatMiscavige basically dreamed up
that these guys could do.
Hubbard never said for thoseguys to do it.
No.
It was meant for staff Sea Orgmembers, and he was like, hey,
we're going to do this.
And then well, it's anotherthing.
And also this is crazy becausethey basically made those items

(43:22):
because they knew they're kindof messing with some things here
that Hubbard said.
So they made it so that youcould do all these items no
matter where you were on theScientology chart of progress.
So if you were very low on thebridge, you can do causal
surgeons rundown or superpower.
And if you're very high on thebridge, you can do it.
And also he can do it multipletimes.

(43:45):
He added that you've got doingthat.

SPEAKER_04 (43:47):
There's nothing else in Scientology that you're
actually supposed to do multipletimes.
And I love it.
And frankly, I don't even Ithink that's something that
they've added.

unknown (43:58):
Um

SPEAKER_04 (44:00):
I read the writings from Hubbard about the creation
of the cause resurgence rundown,and nowhere did it say you could
do it multiple times.

SPEAKER_01 (44:07):
Yeah, it was probably another thing where one
person did it but they didn'treally finish it, and he said,
Oh, you got to go back and dothis.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (44:13):
And then they're like, actually, you know what?
Why can't they do it multipletimes?
Just like um, you know, many theconditions in Scientology.
And this is the crazy thing.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
So she's writing this email, and she may have had
some of this other informationthat we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 (44:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
But she's trying to lay it out in a very
Scientological way.

SPEAKER_05 (44:31):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
So that Scientol and also she's writing to the people
that they're doing, they're theones being made to do all these
things.
So it's not like speaking theirlanguage.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (44:41):
None of this is new news to them.
They're like, oh yeah.
What you know, they she'sspeaking to what the thoughts
that none of these people hadallowed themselves to even think
out loud.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
But in in in in defense of Debbie, she also
worked at the place where allthese people were.
So David Miscavige at theInternational Headquarters or
these other muckety mugs,they're in the middle of nowhere
in the desert in California.
She's on on the ground withthese people.
Yep.
And so she knows what things getbrought up when people are like,

(45:14):
hey, I came here for a four-daything, and you guys are trying
to keep me here for threemonths, and you need me to pay
you another hundred thousandbucks.
Yeah.
What the hell's going on?
And she's the one who had tohandle those people to say, oh
no, do this and do that and allthese things.
And so the fact that thesethings are happening, she was

(45:34):
having to be the go-between totry to sort some of these things
out with these people when theydid disagree.

SPEAKER_04 (45:41):
Right, because she's the head of the organization
that's pulling in at this timeone to two million dollars a
week.

SPEAKER_02 (45:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (45:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (45:48):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (45:49):
I'm just gonna skip over the rest of the technical
stuff.
It's a lot.
Okay.
So more recently, the fad seemsto be that nearly everyone needs
to redo their purificationrundown and do a long objectives
program.
Objectives is just the type ofcounseling that's physical, like
walking around, moving, it's avery, very lower level

(46:12):
Scientology process.
Aaron Ross Powell Including manyOTs mid-Solonauts, which is OT7.
There's nothing wrong with doingobjectives, but is it it is a
clear violation of the policymixing rundowns and repairs to
have a person mid-a rundown orOT level be taken off it and

(46:33):
placed on an objectives program.
But hey, it's a great way tomake money.
Solo Knots auditors, that's OT7,that's people solo auditing,
talking to their body thitans,um, are also being made to get
their objectives from a classnine auditor at great expense as

(46:53):
they are not being allowed toco-audit.
So this is a reference to whenyou're when you reach when you
get to the upper levels, you'reit's um it's mandatory that you
get auditing only from someonewho is a class nine auditor,
which is way more expensive.

SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
And also there are not that many of them.

SPEAKER_04 (47:14):
No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (47:16):
And if they are, they well, they're only at Flag
for the most part.

SPEAKER_04 (47:19):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
That's where most of those guys are.

SPEAKER_04 (47:21):
Oh, the class nine.
Yeah, they're at the advancedorgs and flag.
And flag.
Yeah.
Um, flag is the only place wherethere are class 12s.
Flag has made many millions ofdollars on the above-listed
OutTech handlings because OTs,mid-OT7, are forced to get these
out tech actions to be able toget back onto and stay on the

(47:44):
level and complete it.
Not to mention the spiritualeffects of the Outech that this
has on each OT.
So, again, this email isaddressed to all the people that
have been, you know, affected bythis.
I myself was subject to theseout-tech handlings, including
extensive false purpose rundownmid-OT7.

(48:05):
It took its toll in many ways,including physical situations I
am still dealing with today.
Uh, so false purpose rundown isthe interrogations for your evil
purposes causing you to, youknow, misbehave, shall we say?
So I have some reality of thehardship caused.
Elron Hubbard command structure.

(48:26):
Hubbard left us with a complexand balanced command structure,
well, debatable, but whatever,with our orgs led by the Office
of Executive DirectorInternational.
This office was considered soimportant that Hubbard created a
special management group calledthe Watchdog Committee, whose
only purpose was to see thatthis office and the other needed

(48:49):
layers of management existed.
Um the Hubbard LRHED 339R speaksthat which is a policy, um
speaks of this extensively asthe protection for our church.
But these people are missing,and not just some.
As of just a few years ago,there are no members of the

(49:11):
Office of the Executive DirectorInternational on post, not to
mention top executivesthroughout the international
management structure.
You may have also wondered,where is Heber?
Heber Gench, the president ofthe church.
What about Ray Midoff, SeniorCase Supervisor International,

(49:31):
the one that Hubbard personallyturned over the upper OT levels
to?
Hate to break it to you, Debbie,he didn't.
Um, how about Norman Starkey,Elron Hubbard's trustee?
What happened to GuillaumeLeServe, Executive Director
International, and Mark Yeager,the watchdog committee chairman?
What happened to the otherinternational management

(49:52):
executives that you have seen atevents over the years?
The truth is that I spent weeksworking in the empty
international managementbuilding at Int.
Empty because everyone had beenremoved from post.
When I first went up lines,meaning to the international
headquarters.

(50:18):
Scientology is for driving toHemet, California.

unknown (50:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (50:26):
Oh my God.
These are the twisting my braina little bit reading this, but
that's okay.
You know, again, it'stranslation.
Okay.
I was briefed extensively byDavid Miscavige about how bad
all of them were and how theyhad done many things that were

(50:46):
all very discreditable.
This seemed to quote unquoteexplain the fact that the
entirety of the watchdogcommittee no longer existed.
The entirety of the executivestrata, which consisted of
Executive Director Internationaland 11 other top international
executives that were the topexecutives in their particular

(51:08):
fields no longer existed.
That the Commodore's MessengerOrg International no longer
existed.
All of these key commandstructures of Scientology
International put there byHubbard had been removed.

SPEAKER_01 (51:24):
Yo, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (51:26):
Yep.
There were hundreds and hundredsof unanswered letters and
requests for help from org staffwritten based on the um LRH
ED339R, where Hubbard says thatstaff can write to these top
executives in the executivestrata for help.

(51:47):
But this is not possible if allthese executives have been
removed and no one is there tohelp them or to get evaluations
and programming done to expandScientology.
Well, after that, I got to spendsome quality time with Heber,
Ray Midoff, Norman Starkey,Guillaume, as well as the
entirety of internationalmanagement at the time, who were

(52:08):
all off post and doing very longand harsh ethics programs.
These have gone on for years andto the only result that they are
still off post.
There is no denying that thesetop executives have all
gradually disappeared from thescene.
You don't see them sorry, thatwas me.

(52:29):
Oh.
You don't see them at the bigevents anymore or on the ship at
Maiden Voyage.
David Miscavige has now becomethe leader of the Scientology
religion.
Yet what Hubbard left behind wasa huge structure to properly
manage all aspects of theScientology religion.
He put a complete and brilliantorganizational structure there,

(52:51):
not one individual.
There never was supposed to be aquote unquote leader other than
Hubbard himself as the goalmaker for our group.
Yeah, and this speaks toobviously what we talk about all
the time.
David Miscavige is the one andonly executive in Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 (53:08):
And also this is where she's couching it as I'm
not I'm not trying to attackScientology.
I'm trying to tell you Hubbardsaid this and David Miscavige is
doing that.

SPEAKER_04 (53:20):
And basically, that is a very, in my opinion, that
is a very productive way to towean a Scientologist out of
Scientology because then oncethey experience the real world
and they're kind of seeing thatthings are a little bit more
nonsense than they thought theywere, then she's speaking to

(53:42):
them in their language to wakethem up to things that they've
all already been thinking.
Yes.
100%.
There is a situation here, andeven if you have not been to the
international management base,you should be able to see that
over-regging, again, gettingmoney from people, and frequent
tech changes, revisionisthistory, all of this, are not

(54:04):
okay.
And you have a responsibility todo something to keep Scientology
working.
You should be able to find andread the references on
membership in OEC Volume 6, findand read the policy, the ideal
org, find and read thereferences on org buildings,
including the policy letterCleanliness of Quarters and

(54:25):
Staff, Improve Our Image.
Also the policy on the orgimage.
If you don't want to make wavesor put your put yourself in
danger of being taken off thelevel or denied eligibility,
then there are some simplethings you can do, which again
to me, that sentence iseverything.

SPEAKER_01 (54:43):
Well, that's because it speaks to the dangers of
you're on this OT level sevencould take years and years and
years for you to do.
And every six months you'resupposed to go back to Florida
and get a little tune-up, get alittle checkup, make sure you
haven't been up to any nonsense.

(55:04):
You basically get interrogatedon if you've been out security,
if you've given the materials toanybody, or if you've spoken to
anybody, or if you've doneanything bad, or you have any
bad intentions towards DavidMiscavige or Scientology.
Every six months you have to getdo this checkup for and it if
you're on there for eight years,then that's two trips a year for

(55:24):
eight years.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (55:25):
And it's not optional.
You're required to audit everyday and mark the calendar.
When you hit that six months,you're not allowed to keep going
until you report to Flag forinterrogations.

SPEAKER_01 (55:38):
Yeah.
So for these people, they'retrying to get to the next OT
level.
So you've got to get done withOT seven so you can do OT eight,
so you can do OT9.
So they if they go off of thelevel, if they stop, then that's
like the end of the world tothem.
Because they're being told,they've been told their entire
Scientology ex career existence,that the only way you're going

(56:01):
to reach and get all thesesuperpowers and become an
operating theta and cause overmatter, energy, space, and time
is you've got to get to thesehighest levels.
So that is is it's dangled as acarrot in front of these
high-level Scientologists.
If you make any waves or youstart causing any problems, that
David Miscavige just has to snaphis fingers and you're off the

(56:24):
OT levels.
And that, to some of thesepeople, that would ruin their
life.
They would utterly be ruined bythat because they're brainwashed
into thinking that's theultimate, ultimate goal for them
and their family and theirbusiness is they get as high as
they can.

SPEAKER_04 (56:40):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Yeah.
But also it comes with some veryreal threats of if they work for
a Scientologist, they could losetheir job.
If their kids or their wife isin Scientology, that can go poof
overnight too.
Many other things, like realphysical threats.

SPEAKER_01 (56:55):
So Debbie's trying to tell them what how they can
do this without getting introuble.

SPEAKER_04 (56:59):
Yes, exactly.
First and foremost, withdrawyour support from off-policy
actions.
Stop donating to anything.
Which to me, that sentence, thatpart right there is why they
wasted no time filing a lawsuit.
Stop donating to anything otherthan your own services and
actual bridge progress.

(57:20):
Simply demand to see an aHubbard policy that says you are
required to make other suchdonations.
No one will be able to produceany references because there
aren't any.
Stop supporting any of theactivities that are being done
to forward off-policyfundraising in your area.
And again, Debbie is tellingthem what to do in a way that

(57:42):
basically they're off the hook.

SPEAKER_01 (57:45):
Yeah.
If they say, Oh, you got to dothis, you say, show me the L Ron
Hubbard policies that says Ihave to do that.
They don't have one, and you'rejust like, okay, talk to you
later.

SPEAKER_04 (57:53):
See, I wouldn't want to be Hubbard says what he
expects of a Scientologist.
That is what he expects you todo.
In fact, he put it in HCOB,Keeping Scientology Working
Series 33, what we expect of aScientologist.
Read it and follow it.
The other thing you can do is tosend this email to as many

(58:15):
others as you can.
That's probably the secondsentence that prompted the
lawsuit.
Even if you do it anonymously,please keep this email among us,
the Scientologists.
The media have no place in this.
Well, they do, but whatever.
You may wonder why I have notwritten a knowledge report and
gone about my business.
The answer is I have.

(58:36):
But there is no longer anyone tosend that knowledge report to,
right?
Because the only executive inScientology is David Miscavige,
and he runs everything.
And he's not going to listen towhat a shithead he is.
Excuse my language.
But there is no longer anyone tosend that knowledge report to.
But you can and should writereports and bring off policy to

(58:58):
the attention of local orgexecutives and local Sea Org
members.
We are a strong and powerfulgroup.
And we can effect a change.
We have weathered many storms.
I'm sorry that I'm the onetelling you, but a new storm is
upon us.
His name is David Miscavige.

(59:21):
Its waves are already in themedia and the world around us.
The truth is that as aScientologist, you are more
able, more perceptive, and havea higher integrity.
Scientology is supposed to allowyou to think for yourself and
never compromise your ownintegrity.
And most certainly, Hubbard heldevery Scientologist responsible

(59:42):
to keep Scientology working.
I'm not trying to do anythingother than effect a change in
serious off-policy actionsoccurring.
My husband and I have most ofour family and many, many good
friends who are Scientologists.
I have not been real interestedin sticking my neck out like
this.
However, I also know that Idedicated my entire adult life

(01:00:04):
to supporting Hubbard and theapplication of Hubbard
technology.
And if I ever had to lookHubbard in the eye, well, you
don't have to, he ain't comingback.
Uh I wouldn't be able to say Idid everything I could to keep
Scientology working if I didn'tdo something about it now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:20):
Is that the last one?

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:21):
I think there's one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:22):
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:23):
We all have a stake in this.
It is simply not possible toread the LRH references and not
see the alterations andviolations that are currently
occurring.
You have a very simpleobligation to Hubbard.
Don't participate in anythingoff-policy and let others know
they should not either.
If every person who reads thisemail does nothing more than

(01:00:45):
step back from off-policyactions, we would have changed
direction.
If we took all that energy anddirected it into auditing,
training, and raw publicdissemination, we would be
winning.
And that is what I wish for youand all of us as we ring in this
new year.
ARC.
Debbie Cook.

(01:01:06):
Yeah, it's like the thealternate signature to ML.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:10):
Much love.
Um that was a lot.

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:16):
We made it to the end, thank God.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:17):
Yeah, I just wanted to say one other thing on this,
and that is if Scientologydidn't have all that stuff in
it, and they were just doingwhat they were supposed to do,
then the only way they'd reallyget money in is from doing
Scientology courses with peopleand doing Scientology counseling

(01:01:38):
or what they call auditing.
That's it.
Those are the two things thatthey make money from.
When we left in 2004, 2005,well, by the end of 2004, we
left really early in 2005.
But by the by that date,Scientology had uh what what
they call advanced payments.

(01:02:00):
So people have paid forScientology auditing and
counseling, but they have notyet received it.
And that amount of that's astatistic of uh somebody in an
international management thatsays this is supposed to be
zero.
There should be no ex advancedpayments, or they it should
always be going down.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:20):
Right.
Because this is a liability ontheir balance sheet.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:23):
Yeah.
And what David Miscavige figuredout is that there was about a
for all of Scientologyinternationally, there was one
billion dollars worth ofdonations for auditing and
payments for auditing andcounseling that had not yet been
been delivered.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:43):
Yeah, and many of the some of that was even for
people who passed away.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:46):
Aaron Powell Well, yeah, but most of it was people
that were still around.
But yes, some of it was dead, uhpeople who ha were no longer
alive who'd paid these moniesand they never ever got their
services.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:58):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:58):
Okay.
But besides that, if they wereto deliver all of those backlog
services that they owed people,it would take a hundred years
for them to do that.

unknown (01:03:11):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:11):
And they'd have no income for a hundred years.
So essentially what washappening was they were all they
had already depleted theScientology field of things they
could charge them for for themto come into the organization
and do.
There was no more things thatthey could ask these people to

(01:03:31):
pay for because they'd alreadypaid for everything.
They just hadn't done it yet.
Right.
And some of those people paid,but then they weren't allowed to
do it because they were outethics or something happened, or
for whatever reason, they neededto come up with new ways to get
money.
And that's how you have theseevents and the fundraisers, and

(01:03:52):
we're gonna sell you this, andwe're gonna sell you fancy
bowling trophy and all thesedifferent things.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:57):
Even though Hubbard said not to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:00):
Even though Hubbard said not to do that, because
they had no other option.
Financially, they would be theywould go they're already, if you
think about it, they're alreadyinsolvent to the tune of a
billion dollars.
Yeah, they have reserves and allthat, but they don't want to
David Miscavige doesn't want tospend the reserves.
So if Scientology were to haveto get back on the right track,

(01:04:22):
they'd have to stop doing allthe nonsense, all this crazy
fundraising, and they'd justhave to deliver the services
that they were charging peoplefor, and it would take one
hundred years for them just tocatch up the backlog of
donations that they had gottenin to do these items in
Scientology.
Yep.
So I'm just trying to tell youwhy these things are happening.

(01:04:44):
It's not uh uh uh uh DavidMiscavige is I don't think he
just said, Oh, I want to dosomething totally different than
L.
Ron Hubbard wanted to do.
He's like, we're gonna go brokeif we don't do something.
And he thought up some greatways to suck as much money out
of those people as possible.
Okay.
I mean, we'll show it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:05):
Um Yeah, we've linked to Debbie's testimony
video, but um we said we wouldplay some of this, and I think
it's relevant because mostly toshow you what Debbie says in her
testimony doesn't match what'sin her email, not one bit.
Like there are so many aspectsof the things she witnessed

(01:05:28):
personally, David Miscavigebeating people up and on and on
and on, that she never mentionedin her email.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:35):
Why?

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:35):
Because they would have stopped reading.
That's why.
So that's where I think thecontrast of understanding
Debbie's lived experience andwhat she witnessed is relevant
here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:46):
Aaron Ross Powell And I do want to say before we
start this, when when Debbie waspromoted to the international
headquarters from Florida, hugeair quotes.
Yeah.
Promoted.
She w ended up in at management.
And specifically where themanagement of Scientology is,

(01:06:09):
that's where the hole islocated.
And that's this kind of thesedouble wide trailers that David
Miscavige just kept all theseexecutives that had been taken
off their positions and postswhere he just kept them.
They lived there, they sleptthere, they ate there.
That's that's where they lived,and they were never allowed to
leave there.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:27):
Yeah, and she does a great job explaining this, so
we'll let her do the talking.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:31):
Okay.
Hopefully you can guys can hearthis.
Here I'll I'll I'll Well no,just people tell us we're gonna
play this, and hopefully you canhear it.
And if I need to turn it up,I'll turn it up.
But let's just see here.

SPEAKER_06 (01:06:44):
Goodness, Mr.
Miscavige physically umpunching.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:49):
Can you guys hear that?
I don't see any uh I want tomake sure they can hear it
before we Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:02):
Oh yeah, Trev says yes.
Thanks, Trevanon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:05):
I thought so.
Okay, good.
Here we go.
I'm gonna start it again here.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:08):
In the face 2005, what was the first thing that
you witnessed that personallyhorrified and frightened you?

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:18):
That's right, Jeffrey Thompson.
I um witness Mr.
Miscavige physically um punchingin the face and wrestling to the
ground another very senior umexecutive at the science policy
international level.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:37):
Did you ever begin to receive uh or were you ever
the recipient of money violence?

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:46):
Yes, I was.
One time I was uh called into aconference room and asked some
questions, and he ordered hissecretary to slap me, and she um
slapped me so hard I fell fellover into the chairs.
Um one time he uh Mr.

(01:08:09):
Miscavenger ordered hiscommunicator to break my finger
if I didn't answer uh hisquestion.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:17):
Did you yourself ever receive physical violence
from Mr.
Miscaven?

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:24):
Um I there was really only one physical
incident where um he was veryangry and he um walked around a
long, very long conference tableto get to me.
He was yelling, and um he cameup like as if he was going to

(01:08:47):
choke me, but he didn't.
He only he basically grabbed myshoulders and and ship me while
he was yelling at me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:55):
Okay, so I don't think we have to show that whole
thing.
It's it there's a lot ofbackground.
Um it's in a it's a court umtestimony that was recorded, and
there's a lot of people inthere, and there's air noise.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:08):
But the audio is not great, but the testimony is
Yeah, and we did leave a link toit in the description.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:14):
So if you want to watch the whole testimony, it's
in there.
It's actually on Amy Scobie's umYouTube channel, is where this
is posted.

SPEAKER_04 (01:09:21):
So Yeah, if you just look on uh search Debbie Cook
testimony in you on YouTube,it's in a bunch of places.
So yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:30):
Anyway, so it's definitely worth listening to
the whole thing because shegives multiple specifics of she
basically explains everythingthat we've been talking about
for for the last 20 years that'sgood that was going on there.
Um she talks about that, and sheshe she I mean, to be fair, she

(01:09:55):
got the whole light, I think.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:59):
It was much, much worse many, many years before, I
think personally.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:03):
No, it got worse.
Okay, well, either way, likeMike talks about it in his book
A Billion Years.
By then there were bars on thewindows, a full-time security
guard, like it was a literalprison.
And she talks about in thistestimony, by the way, that uh
they even um miscavage shut offthe electricity in the heat of s

(01:10:24):
in the middle of summer, whichin Gilman Hot Springs can get up
to 1020 degrees.
So you're sitting in a trailerthat's infested by ants, but but
the people that had no ACT.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:36):
The people that were getting the main uh portions of
the beatings had escaped.
They were not there anymore.
The people that were getting themost beat up left.
So he had all these otherpeople, and and a lot of these
other people, um they would justcrumble in a second.
That's the problem with youknow, like Mike Rinder and

(01:10:58):
Marty.
They could take a beating andkeep going.
And so they got more beatingsand they got more violence
because they didn't they didn'tbasically give up or quit after
David Miscavige would betorturing them for weeks and
years and all this other stuff.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:14):
Yeah, there's another important part of this
testimony because we get askedor people have asked a lot of
times, well, why doesn't anyonefight back?
Debbie describes an incidentwith an executive by the name of
Mark Jinjinelson, Ginga Nielsen,yeah, where he voiced
disagreements with uh physicalabuse of executives.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:35):
I think he came at the same time Debbie came.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:38):
She did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:38):
They came together to the international property.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:40):
Yeah.
And so that the handling thatwas done on him for saying he
disagreed with physical abuse ishe was locked up and they beat
the crap out of him.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:50):
Yeah, and he was also licking the tile.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:53):
Yeah, she he was made to clean uh bathrooms by
licking the floor.

unknown (01:11:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:59):
Yeah.
Horrible stuff, guys.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:01):
Like really.
Just really just DavidMiscavige.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:04):
That's I think that's the one thing that he
finds great joy in, and figuringout new ways that he can demean
and just hu dehumanize thesepeople by making them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:16):
He's literally like Negan out of Walking Dead.
He's a freaking company.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:20):
Claire's watching Walking Dead now.
Chip for brains.
What is the bats called?
Lucille.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:25):
Lucille.

unknown (01:12:26):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:27):
I've never seen it, but I know.
I know enough about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:29):
Oh my god, it's too much.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:32):
Yeah.
Well, if you guys want anyfurther stuff, you can look,
like we said, you can look inthe just the video description,
and there's links to all sortsof the whole testimony.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:43):
Oh, here, somebody asked Claire, weren't you in the
hole too?
Uh yes, I was.
I was I was put in the hole inSeptember 2004 until I escaped
in January 2005.
I was made to sleep, I wasn'tallowed to go home, sleeping on
the floor of my office.

unknown (01:13:01):
Crap like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:02):
I do want to say this.
It says, why don't theystructure the severance such
that they control itsdistribution for years and
years?
They do do that with manypeople.
And even in the settlements thatthey do now, they do do that.
So they they basically say,okay, we're gonna make a deal
with you, we're gonna give youfive million dollars, but we're

(01:13:24):
only gonna give you two hundredthousand dollars a year.
And if you break the agreement,then that's it.
The faucet gets shut off, andthen you don't get the money.
So they do do that now.
They've they they found out.
They did the the the they didthe mess it around part, and now
they're doing the finding outpart.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:40):
Yeah, and honestly, that's just where I'm like,
thank God we're anyway.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:45):
Yeah, it's all good.
Um okay.
I do want to show we didn't dooh yeah, we did.
We used to do this thing at thebeginning where we tell where
everybody's coming from.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:54):
I just want to do that real quick before we just
running long.
We knew this was gonna be a deepdive, but you guys we asked, you
guys answered, and we showed upand did it for you.
Hopefully it wasn't too much.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:10):
That was that's the part where you get to read.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:13):
Okay.
Good evening from theNetherlands.
Gosh, Dr.
Feisty over there.
Hello from Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:20):
She's just looking at it like Hello from Tuolemy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:22):
I wasn't looking at it though, I was looking at you.
That's the point.
Uh howdy Hay from somewherebetween Sacramento and San
Francisco.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:30):
We gotta get a replay camp going here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:33):
Uh-huh.
Uh okay.
Hello from a new Neverin fanfrom Columbia, South Carolina.
Nice.
Thank you for joining us.
We appreciate it.
Greetings from Cameron, NorthCarolina.
Hi, Betsy Sue.
December Topez, happy Sundayfrom West Virginia.
Mary Kay, hi from Albuquerque.
Anita, hello from theNetherlands.

(01:14:53):
We love our Netherlands folks.
Jerry, hi from Omaha, Nebraska.
Jack Shaw, howdy from Henderson,Nevada.
Samantha, hello from Kent in theUK.
Oh, nice, my neck of the woods.
Chubby Ninja, hello fromDenmark.
Angel Cat, howdy doll fromSunland, California.
Tracy, howdy from Wyoming.

(01:15:16):
Julie, hello from Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:19):
Nice.
Oh, this person.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:21):
Greetings from Target 2.
Boom, Elrond Fuddy Duddy.
Thank you for the laugh and forthe super chat.
Yeah, it's very generous of you,Fuddy Duddy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:32):
Is that what I call them sometimes?
Fuddy duddy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:35):
Yeah, that's a that's a mark.
That's like Billy Bob, FuddyDuddy.
There's like a list of markterms.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:42):
Fuddy duddy.
75 for the billion years.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:45):
Linda, is the$75 for a billion years?
Oh my goodness, that'shilarious.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:51):
That's for the Scientologists.
The Sea Org members.
The Sea Org members aren't doingthese memberships.

SPEAKER_04 (01:15:57):
I didn't even make that connection.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:59):
That's there a policy that says when you join
the Sea Org, you automaticallybecome a lifetime member.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:04):
I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:05):
I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:06):
I mean it was practice, but I never saw a
policy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:09):
Well, yeah, people aren't joining the Sea Org and
then paying 5K.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:12):
Didn't even write about IES membership in the
first place.
So why would you write aboutgiving it free to C org members?
It was just like I just rememberand actually I don't think it
was for all Sea Org members.
I know that when I got to thebase, that's when I was told,
oh, by the way, you you now youwork here, you got a free
lifetime membership.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:32):
Yeah, here's another super chat for Betsy Sue.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:34):
The email is absolutely brut this email is
absolutely brutal.
Go Debbie.
Yep, exactly.
It it was worth it to break itdown as hard as it was to get
through some of the language ofit.
But I think that's it's also,you know, and Scientology's
reaction to it as well.
Obviously, it hit a sore spot.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:51):
Oh yeah, no, this this was uh Yeah, here you go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:56):
Okay.
Oh, Mitch in the house.
DM sought donations on top ofselling Scientology, not in
place of it.
I believe that that'sMiscavige's donation hack.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:07):
Yeah.
But they're still not the thethe they figured out that their
the their level of regging, thethe uh soliciting of donations
for training and auditing umwell outpaced their ability to
deliver dianetics andScientology.
I think it's like some crazyamount, like a hundred to one.

(01:17:30):
So like they're raising ahundred dollars in a week and
they're delivering a dollarworth of services in a week.
If you if you in the uh that'show it was working out.
So there was no way to fix this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:42):
Yeah.
The the whole the liability holeon the balance sheet was uh
growing faster than they couldfix it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:50):
It's also the most concentrated effort in any
Scientology organization isgross income.
The executive director statisticis gross in income.
The all these different people,they're specifically being
hounded money, money, money,money, money, money, money.
What are you laughing about?

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:12):
You'll see.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:13):
Send cools, they only have Virginia slims here.
Fuddy duddy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:17):
I'm dying.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:18):
I don't know who this is, but it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:21):
I'll run Fuddy Duddy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:22):
Bullseye.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:24):
Thank you for the comedy.
It's it's a hilarious okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:27):
We got a few more people.
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:29):
Hello from New Zealand.
Nice.
Thank you for joining us.
Hello from Ireland, the crustyrabbit hole.
Hello from New York City, nice.
Thanks to everyone tuning intoday.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:39):
Yeah, there were a few other ones.
I can't.
I'm uh if I missed you, I'm sosorry.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:43):
Do you want to do the giveaway and then do
questions or what?

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:46):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah, we can do that.
We can do the giveaway and thendo questions.
Oh, why don't you say who wonlast week?

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:53):
Oh, yes.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:54):
So get set up for the giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:55):
So last week we talked about doing a live
giveaway and then a replay crewgiveaway.
Um, so I posted a comment, um,but our replay crew uh winner
from last week is at ChristineMiller5515.
So send me an email, Claire atBloomforgood.com, Christine, and

(01:19:16):
let me know if you'd like a likeuh mic or Leah Bobblehead.
Oh, it's been a minute.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:21):
Awesome.
And look, I got it all set uphere.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:23):
Oh, look at you.
Nice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:24):
Okay, so there's only 76 entries right now.
So why don't we leave this up?
We'll answer some questions, andwhen that hits a hundred, we'll
do the giveaway.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:34):
Perfect.
All right, sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:36):
So you guys can see it t ticking up with us here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:39):
So any comment in the live stream chat gets you
entered into that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:43):
Yeah, you just you can just say, hey, where are you
coming from, or hey, I likethis, or whatever.
There you go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:48):
There you go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:48):
We're getting them.
We're getting them.
Nice job.
Um, I'm trying to see thisthing.
Okay.
Um let's do some questions.
Yes.
Oh, I'm in the live, not thestart.
Yeah, that's why I was alljacked up.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:06):
Yeah.
Um, the crusty rabbit hole.
It's difficult to understand whymiscavage is not already locked
up.
Why humans treat other humanslike this is really sad and
makes you angry at the sametime.
Yeah, I know.
Exactly.
We we've we will talk to any andall law enforcement agencies.
We've had many conversationsabout this, and we provide new

(01:20:29):
information to them on theregular.
So we're doing everything wepossibly can.
It's incredibly frustrating howslow it goes.
Japan of Green Gables question.
Claire, when you went clear, didit feel like a big revelation or
was it anticlimactic?
It was 100% anticlimactic.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:48):
It is.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:49):
It was just uh, you know, the song that comes to
mind of Depeche Mode is a painthat I'm used to.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:55):
Nice.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:58):
Uh okay, XJW Vernon question Will there be new
episodes on the Aftermathchannel?
Yes, there will be.
I have had to literally juststrip down to bare bones.
Um, I'm now deep in the throesof the editing process with uh
my book doctor that Mike Rinderwas so kind as to refer me to

(01:21:19):
before he passed.
She's an amazing lady.
Um, I'm hoping to be done withall of that in the next few
weeks, at which point I'll beable to start um working with
Phil on getting stuff contentgoing again on the Aftermath
YouTube channel.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:34):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:35):
Catherine Olson, CERC members get an automatic
lifetime membership, but itdoesn't mean anything, and they
didn't get any sort of specialacknowledgement like the public
do.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, because there's notreatment.
The only perk for aScientologist for an um a
membership is uh uh what is it,a 10 or 15% discount on

(01:21:56):
services?
And since members of the Corganization aren't required to
pay for their services, it meansnothing.
It's literally like a piece ofplastic card that you get that
has less meaning than a creditcard.
Toons question Has Office ofSpecial Affairs ever made any
comments on these live streams?
Not in the chat, but we've we'veheard you know of.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:19):
They could have sock accounts that trust.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:21):
But we've heard them and seen them make reference to
things that we've talked about.
And in fact, they they took ascreenshot and like a new
screenshot of me that theydoctored to make me look nasty
on on our hate site.
Oh, really?
It's from our channel, so weknow they're watching.
Hi, Elsa.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:40):
Well, even when we were in the middle of the
lawsuit with them, they had acopy of every single internet
post that I had ever made on anymessage board anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 (01:22:50):
Yes.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:52):
I think we're gonna have to just pull it on the uh
Yeah, let's just do it.
Here we go.
We're gonna do the draw.
Here you go.
Ready?
Um this is automatic.
I this is no way rigged.
This is stream yard, just goesthrough the comments and it
tallies everybody up, and that'show it works.
Okay, so even if uh Claire or Iwin.
We've won before, right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:14):
Yeah, we have.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:14):
Yeah.
Well, we're in the mix.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:16):
So has Catherine, so has Claire.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:18):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:19):
Oh, three salt life.
Oh, that's your that's our newviewer for today.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:23:25):
Good, awesome.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:26):
Congratulations.
Send me an email, Claire C L A IR E at blownforgood.com with
your choice of Aliyah or MikeBobblehead and your address, and
we'll get that shipped off toyou.
Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:39):
Perfect.
Okay, let's go back to here wego, and there's another
question.

SPEAKER_04 (01:23:44):
Okay.
New year, new name, 2026.
Is the changes made for peopleon solo knots OT7 regarding
costs of class nine auditorspart of the reason why those on
OT seven seem to malicethemselves?
No, I'm not sure what thatmeans.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:03):
I don't know either, but um I just I just uh I don't
exactly understand the question,but I do know that when you're
doing when you're doing thesecounseling processes in
Scientology and you're having todo it you if you're on OT7, you
have to do it every day andyou're encouraged to do it

(01:24:26):
multiple times a day.
And and this is when you'reyou're zapping BTs, right?
You're getting rid of bodythetans.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:34):
You're telling them see you, don't want to be you.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:36):
Yeah, you're telepathically communicating to
tell them to GTFO.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:40):
Yeah.
So you're basically servingmental eviction notices to
millions and millions of aliensthat are living in your body.
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:48):
So that's what you're doing several times a
day.

SPEAKER_04 (01:24:51):
Don't try to put insert too much logic in that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:53):
So that's what you're doing for six months.
And you can't finish untilthere's none left to get rid of,
basically.
They gotta all be evicted foryou to get to the end of OT
seven so that you can then do OTeight.
And then you find out on OTeight that you're the one that
created all the body thickens.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.
Who knew?
Yeah.
Well de douda.
See?
Now you don't have to do it nomore.

(01:25:14):
I just done told you.
Okay.
So but every six months duringbe in between those little
eviction sessions, you gotta goand get interrogated by these
guys that if you're up to nogood or you did you did
something nonsense.
And it could be anything fromsome infidelity on their partner

(01:25:36):
that they were involved in tocriminal activities that they're
involved.
It could be anything that theyget confessed to.
And then Scientology, if theyfind something, and Scientology
says, well now you have to dolower conditions, which are
these uh conditions belownonexistence that have penalties

(01:25:57):
and and amends that has to bemade.
And then one of the things theyhave is they have this little
village set up in Clearwaterthat has the Way to Happiness
Foundation and the Associationfor Better Living and Education,
Abel, and they have all these oruh Citizens Commission on Human
Rights and they have all thesebuildings.
You have to go through everysingle one of those and get

(01:26:20):
regged, get uh pressured to givethem money.
And as part of your amends,depending on how much you gave
all those guys in money, iswhether or not you get to get
back on the level again.
So they have it all set up sothat they can maximize the cash
suck as much as possible onthese people, and they get hit

(01:26:42):
every six months.
And so it's a big deal in theScientology world how this whole
thing works.
And also when you go to Floridato do this, you're not allowed
to stay in a non-scientologyhotel.
That's why Scientology has somany hotels and rooms and
places, because they uh dictatethat the members that are coming

(01:27:05):
for these checks, they have tolive in one of their properties.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:27:10):
So same is true for the outer orc trainees that go
to Flag for training.
They also have to pay forlodging in their facilities.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:17):
In their facilities.
So they're getting and then youand then because you're living
in their facilities and you'rebeing at the you're at the Fort
Harrison or the Flag land base,any one of those different
buildings there, you're eatingin there, you're eating there,
you're there.
They basically have figured outhow they can get as much money
out of you as physicallypossible while you're there.

(01:27:39):
And it's not cheap.
It's thousands and thousands andthousands of dollars a day to be
there.
And there's horror stories frompeople all over the place of how
they were there.
They went there for a week andthey ended up staying there for
three months.
I think even Leah, when she wascomplaining and saying, Hey,
what's Hubbard doing and allthat?

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:00):
When she asked where Shelly was.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:01):
Yeah, when she said where's Shelly, she w I think
she's Tommy Davis told her youdon't have the effing rank to
ask that.
There's no um there's no filteron who they're gonna try to do
that to.
They'll do it to their topcelebrities, they'll do it to
their regular, I'm on OT sevenand I want to get to OT eight
guys.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:21):
Yeah.
Nobody is off limits.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:23):
Awesome.
Okay.
Um here we go.
I'm gonna uh Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:28:30):
Multi-chick at Mitch MyMoney answering Mitch.
Oh, my money for bringing theColt down was the Jane Dovey
Scientology case that I read onmy channel, a silver bullet, in
my humble opinion.
Then came the harassment by OSA,Office of Special Affairs, but
it's still there.
Nice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:46):
Yeah, they're they it's at the point now where
they're they're have bill uhmost uh by now maybe even two
billion dollars in undeliveredservices to Scientology.

SPEAKER_05 (01:28:58):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:59):
If the if the whales would stop giving them tens of
millions or hundreds of millionsof dollars, they would be it
would be done.
It would be Dunzer.
They wouldn't they wouldn't beable to keep operating unless
they started spending all thosereserves.

SPEAKER_05 (01:29:12):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:12):
Which David Miscavige is never that's his
piggy bank.
That's David Miscavige's piggybank.
So there's no way they spendthey dip into that if they can.

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:24):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:25):
Um anything else?

SPEAKER_04 (01:29:26):
I think we've got to I think we made it to the end.
Thank you for hanging in therewith us on this deep dive today,
folks.
Um if we missed any questions,we we we might end up doing a QA
one of these weeks coming uphere.
So you can comment on thisvideo, add any other questions
you'd like us to cover that wedidn't get to.
Sorry if we missed yourquestion, but we made it to the

(01:29:49):
end.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:50):
We did, we did.
And and don't think we forgotthe Mark uh seven and the Mark
VIII e-meter videos.
Yes.
They're coming.
We got some we got a hot lead.

unknown (01:30:04):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:04):
We got a hot lead on a brand new Mark VIII Ultra
E-meter.
And we're trying to work thatout so that we can obtain it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:13):
And then we have we have ordered some deep dark
undercover approaches there.
And thanks to eBay, we have anincoming easy bake.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:25):
Yeah, easy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:26):
And we have where'd the other one go?

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:28):
It's right here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:28):
Oh, yeah.
And we have the we got this onealready.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:32):
This one.
So this is the version beforethe Mark VIII Ultra.
This is the Mark Super 7Quantum.
There's no quantum computinghappening in this.
I guarantee it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:30:46):
Don't judge a book by its title or its cover.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:50):
Yeah, you your I want to say your this is a five
thousand the Scientology sellsthis for five thousand dollars.
I would say that anyone's iPhonein their pocket is thousands, if
not hundreds of thousands oftime times more powerful than

(01:31:10):
the electronics or that dosomething than this.
This is a I I love this.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:15):
Lupita says, dumpster diving.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:19):
We have it, we're not dumpster diving.
People aren't throwing away$5,000 emails.
That's the other thing is likethese e-meters, if you paid, you
know, these used to be, theydidn't always used to be$5,000.
You used to be able to buy oneof these for like$2,2500 in like
the 90s or the or the 2000s.
Then they upgraded them to thequantum, and then they got a

(01:31:41):
little bit more expensive.
But this new e-meter, they'recharging$5,000 for it.
So to get somebody who has oneto send it to you, yeah, it's
like eh.

SPEAKER_04 (01:31:51):
That's a that's another hack you just reminded
me of, too, when you train tobecome uh in Scientology
Council.
Not only do you have to have oneof those turdballs, you have to
have two.
You have to have a spare.
So any to uh just as a basicrequirement to do that training,
you have to have two.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:11):
Yeah, and if you're sly though, you'll borrow one.

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:16):
And that but they don't they they frown upon that.

SPEAKER_05 (01:32:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:19):
But as long as you say I have two meters, and just
don't say where you got them,just say I have two, you're
fine.
But if you don't say you havethem, they're gonna make you buy
them.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:31):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:31):
Oh my god, there's so many ways these guys try to
cycle.

SPEAKER_04 (01:32:34):
Oh my goodness, I know.
It's depressing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:36):
And I will say this again this when we were making
these e-meters at Golden AirProductions in the 90s and the
2000s, these can comprised of$400 worth of parts.
And that was because we wereordering a lot of those parts in
very low quantities.
We were rushing things, we wereit could have been maybe$200 if

(01:33:00):
we were doing it efficiently andwe were buying in bulk of the
different components that gointo this thing.
And when they upgraded to thenew Barque e-meter, that has$40
worth of parts costs.

SPEAKER_05 (01:33:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:23):
It's another way no matter what you're you're
looking into Scientology about,it always leads to do Remy.
That's uh you just follow themoney.
Just like anything that's crazyand corrupt, just follow the
money.
Any organization that you thinkis up to no good, if there's
money nonsense going on, that'slikely at the root of whatever's

(01:33:45):
going on.

SPEAKER_04 (01:33:47):
Yeah.
Amy says, also remember theyhave limited edition e-meters
with fancy colors here.
Special edition, R.
We're gonna cover that on thevideo.
Obsidian, the this, the that,the oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:58):
They had for the longest time, they had a gold,
silver, and bronze e-meters.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:03):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:03):
I want to say the gold was like 25,000, and the
silver was like maybe 20, andthe bronze was like 15 or
something like that.
And then we would take this isso crazy, too.
We would take these parts thatwere made for this e-meter.
It the this has like kind oflike a a uh I don't know what

(01:34:24):
you would call it, it has afinish to it that's not smooth.
It's a little orange peely.
Okay, it's it's got some textureto it.
We would take all these plasticparts and we would sand them.
We would wet sand them.
So even these knobs andeverything, they would spend
tens of hours wet sanding thesethings, and then we would send

(01:34:45):
them to a plater and they wouldgold plate them.
And so you take$400 worth ofparts, uh, several hundred hours
of Sea org labor, and then youturn this into a$25,000 e-meter.

SPEAKER_04 (01:34:58):
And personally, I never saw the practicality of
having a gold-plated e-meter.
I mean, you're putting yourfingers all over that thing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:04):
They were never meant to be used.
They were meant to put up onyour shelf in your office and
display and like this lumpalardover here.
Hey, look at me.
I got a gold e-meter.
That's how a baller I am.
When you bring anotherScientologist over to your
house, you say, look what I got.
And some people would would buythe whole set.
They'd have a bronze, silver,and gold e-meter.

(01:35:24):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:25):
Somebody said talk about putting lipstick on a pig.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:28):
Oh, yeah, no.
It was Oh, and that and whatwould happen is the people that
did buy them and use them, theywould get all tarnished.
Yes.
And they'd get green and uglyand all that.
And then we they'd send them inand we'd have to buff them up
and polish them and make themall brand new again.
And sometimes we had to sendparts out to get replated and

(01:35:49):
replace them if they were wornor Oh my God, so much nonsense.

SPEAKER_04 (01:35:54):
Yeah.
So that'll be a deep dive comingup.
But anyway, thank you again toeveryone who tuned in with us
this fine Sunday.
Um We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:03):
We appreciate all the super chats.
We appreciate the comments.

SPEAKER_04 (01:36:06):
And just a reminder comment for the replay crew on
the on this video after it'sdone if you'd like to be um
added into the additionalgiveaway, the end of the replay
crew giveaway.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:19):
Holy mamma.
And we we'll and we'll do thesame system.
We'll announce the winner of thereplay giveaway before we do the
new giveaway next week and soon.
And however long this goes, Idon't know how many bobbleheads
are in the queue, but I thinknext week we'll zero those out.
And then if you wanna if youalready have one or whatever, if

(01:36:40):
you want to donate to thechannel, we can do more
giveaways.
But at the end of the day, we wea lot of these um things that
the Blown for Good makes, weactually um raise money for the
Aftermath Foundation for thesethings.
So like the anything on theAftermath website.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:00):
And on the spshop.com and those proceeds go
to the foundation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:04):
Yeah, all those proceeds go directly to the
foundation.
So um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:08):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:09):
Awesome.
I think that's it.
Last week the uh there was someuh f some something going on,
some monkeying around thathappened, and the outro didn't
play.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:20):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:21):
So hopefully it plays today.

SPEAKER_04 (01:37:22):
Fingers crossed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:37:24):
Until next time, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu.
Xenu is my homeboy and BFGbranded mouse pads, shirts,
mugs, all sorts of other stuffin there that helps us to bring

(01:37:44):
you new content on a regularbasis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book, Blown for Good Behind
the Iron Curtain of Scientologyin hardback, Kindle, and Audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast, and you can get that on
Apple, Spotify, or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on

(01:38:07):
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

All Episodes

Debbie Cook Breaks Ranks and Exposes David Miscavige's Torturous Deeds - Secrets of Scientology #10

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Debbie Cook Breaks Ranks and Exposes David Miscavige's Torturous Deeds - Secrets of Scientology #10