Scientology's Arbitration Trap - Exposed - LIVE Discussion - Secrets of Scientology #9 - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
Welcome to another episode ofBlown for Good, Scientology
Exposed.
I am joined today by my lovelywife, Claire.

SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
Hey, hey, hey, everybody.
Good to be back.

SPEAKER_03 (00:38):
Yes.
I was traveling.
We were traveling.

SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
By we, of course.
For anyone listening, he meansyou.

SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Well, no, you traveled.
You traveled last week too.

SPEAKER_01 (00:52):
Yeah, I came for the weekend.

SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
Yeah, so hey.

SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
Which was a very busy weekend, by the way.
We'll link to that when it comesout.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00):
Yeah.
Oh, it's going to be a while.
It's going to be at least a fewmonths.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
It'll be June.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04):
We did another channel.
I think they have over a millionsubscribers.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09):
We did another YouTube channel, a big, bigger
channel than us for sure.
Long format.
Seven hours.
Seven hours.
It's going to be have to be twoparts, I think.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20):
So that was exciting.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
It was.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
I also had some work in the same state, so that
worked out kind of perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26):
Yep.
We like to um improveefficiencies.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
Not flying all the way to the East Coast and back
for net for a podcast.
Unless they're like got a morethan that.

unknown (01:37):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:40):
But it was it was a great conversation.
I'll definitely look forward totons of great questions.

SPEAKER_03 (01:45):
Yeah, I might have gotten a little spicier than I
get on on our channel in a fewspots there.
I was trying to I was trying tokeep these guys entertained, and
they were they were going forit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
So never a dull moment with Marky Mark over
here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:59):
Oh my goodness.
It was a lot of fun.
Yeah.
It was a bunch of dudes, so Iswitched over to dude talk for a
little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Much of which went over my head, but that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
Anyway, um that was fun.
We also um we've got Clairestarted her new series.

SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Yep.
It's um it we we've got a lot ofthings coming, but it's always
really interesting to haveconversations with people from
other course of cults um tocompare notes and everything
else.
And of course, in the firstepisode, I talked with Sarah
Edmondson and Nippy Ames, whowere part of Nexium, and who

(02:38):
were whistleblowers that gotKeith Rainier um sentenced to
120 years in prison.
Um and and of course, they'rethey were on the vow on HBO
series.
Um they came out with a newbook, which is uh right here, a
little bit culty.
And yeah, so we got I we've Ihave a bunch of interviews lined

(03:00):
up that we're pre-recording, andwe'll be releasing those coming
up.

SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
Awesome.
And that'll fill in any blanks.
We're gonna try to do it thatway to fill in any blanks when
we're not here to do a live.

SPEAKER_00 (03:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (03:10):
Um and we we have particular knowledge about a few
of the things that we've beentalking about lately.
Um and today we're gonna talkabout Scientology's uh
arbitration because when wefiled our lawsuit, they didn't
have this sort of system inplace where they'd allow the

(03:34):
courts to get off easy and justsay, Oh, we don't want to deal
with this, we're gonna we can'treally look into your religious
scriptures.
That's how Scientology cloaksthemselves and and enables this
whole thing to work.
And so um when we did our case,we did depositions.
And in the case of a deposition,you have it's you and the

(03:58):
Scientology people, but thenit's also the Scientology
lawyers and then our lawyers.
And when we both we both didhours and hours of depositions
and Scientology um, when theyeven in our depositions, they
use Scientology techniques andthey use their sort of

(04:22):
methodology to sort to gat totry to gaslight you and to And
to trigger you.

SPEAKER_01 (04:28):
I mean, I I very well remember the the first day
you came home from depositionand you'd been with Kendrick
Moxon the entire day, and youwere like this is a shit show.

SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
Not that it was just a shit show, but it was just
like it was emotionally drainingbecause they there's a there's
there's a whole bunch of littlethings that they do, and you
know they're doing them.
That's the crazy part, becauseyou're like, oh, I know what you
guys are doing, and but youcan't really not participate

(05:09):
because you you have to do thedeposition.
You have to do the deposition.

SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Even in the deposition, they were trying to
go to being argumentative sothat they could then go, ah,
gotcha.
Now we've got to that, you know,this is this is a we gotta bring
in a mediator and rack up morefees.
And you know, they were veryintentionally working it that

(05:32):
way.

SPEAKER_03 (05:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:33):
Which our attorney had even told us ahead of time
that that's what they were gonnado.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
Yeah.
And also, they were getting allof these depositions not only
videoed, but live streamed toDavid Miscavige, because we
could see somebody from OSA.
They had in our in ourdepositions, there was in my
deposition, it was me and my onelawyer.

(05:59):
And then on the other side ofthe table was Ken Moxon, who's
their, he was one of theunindicted co-conspirators in
Scientology's infiltration ofthe United States government,
the largest that it's ever seen.
And he was an unindictedco-conspirator for forging
signatures, I think.
Um he is their one of theirlawyers.

(06:20):
He's like an in-houseScientology lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 (06:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (06:23):
And then they had a lawyer for Religious Technology
Center, and then they had alawyer for CSI, Church of
Scientology International.

SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (06:33):
And then they had the OSA like paralegals, like
they're the ones that are thedoing all the research on the
and getting all the documentsand all the they had bankers
boxes and bankers boxes of everysingle internet post that I had
made on a site that was calledOperation Clambake, ex
Scientology uh message board,and they had every single post.

SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
Um why we protest.

SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
And why we protest.
That was an anonymous.

SPEAKER_01 (07:00):
And this for anyone unfamiliar anyone tuning in
newly, that we're talking aboutour lawsuit against Scientology,
which we filed in January 2009,and which eventually concluded
with us losing, which we'll betalking about, in July 2012.

SPEAKER_03 (07:22):
Yeah.
And when they do thesedepositions, if you just do a
deposition, then it's like it'sthe fee of the the the court
reporter and the not even that,just the transcripts.

SPEAKER_01 (07:36):
Well, I'm just the legal costs.

SPEAKER_03 (07:38):
Yeah, but to pay that person to be there and to
to get a copy of thedepositions.

SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Now, in our case, another maybe we uh reimburse
our own fee.

SPEAKER_03 (07:50):
Well, we have our we have our checks from these
depositions on the walls behindus.

SPEAKER_01 (07:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (07:56):
Anyway, this will make sense later on in this
video.
But basically, every singledeposition is let's just say
that would cost$500 for thatdeposition.
But because they're videoing it,that's like another$1,500.

SPEAKER_01 (08:12):
And because they're live streaming it.

SPEAKER_03 (08:14):
Because they're live streaming it, that's another
$1,000.

SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:17):
And then so they're they're purposely spending as
much money as possible on thesethings because they're intending
at the end of this, if we lose,to make us pay for all the
things that they did and theyrequired to for the deposition.

SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Which is proven, by the way, by the fact that even
as early as 2009, 2010, OSA wasrunning a campaign online that,
oh, we're gonna make blown forgood, broke for good.
Remember that?
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
So regardless, um that we could see somebody from
OSA getting texts and thenwriting on post-it notes and
putting that in front of theattorneys.
Yep.
So when we would go down a lineof questioning and we were
readily answering them becausethe answers to their questions
were not good for them.
Yeah.
When the the lawyers, it's funnybecause the lawyers seemed to

(09:12):
not know what was going on.

SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
Oh, they were oblivious.

SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
So Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
I mean, not Ken Moxon.

SPEAKER_03 (09:19):
No, but but the Mark Marmore and the other guy from
the CSI's attorney, um, I thinkit was Prosgown Rose.

SPEAKER_04 (09:26):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (09:27):
Um they were they didn't know the answers to the
questions that they were asking.
Which in the in the and you findout in in deposition world,
never ask answer and never ask aquestion you don't already know
the answer to.
Yep.
Well, they did not know theanswers.
And so we'd see them writingstop, stop, stop the person from

(09:48):
OSA getting the text and puttingit in front of the attorney.
And the attorney's like, yeah,yeah, yeah.
And they're like, no, no.
They're like tapping on the onthe post-it note, stop these
questions.

SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
Every third sentence, it seemed like, was
striked out from the record.

SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
Yeah.
But oh no, but but and alsowhenever it would go really bad
down one of these paths and thelawyer wouldn't have stopped,
then they would say, we're gonnatake a break for a moment.
And then we could hear themgoing into the conference room
next door and it be screamingand yelling, and and basically
the lawyers getting addressingdown from somebody.

(10:23):
Um, and it was like um this isnot going the way they want it
to go.
Regardless of all that, they domake it, they basically try to,
in Scientology terms,re-stimulate the person that's
being deposed, in our case,Claire or I, or 15 of these
other people that we knew.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Yeah, trigger, re-traumatize, all those things.
They very intentionally try andthey and they already know what
our buttons are, what ourreaction points are from our
files and everything else.
Like in my deposition, they usethey pulled out emails from my
mom to try and traumatize me.

SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
Yeah.
So that went that was a that wasa full-time aspect of getting
deposed, in addition to the factthat you don't know if you say
the wrong thing, if that's gonnamess up the case.
And so there's a lot of stress.
It's just a lot of stress as is.
Right.
And then you add on them justbasically egging you on the

(11:28):
entire time.

SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
And let's factor in.
That doesn't factor in thestress of the of the discovery
process.
Like they're trying to, as muchas it's bad for them, they're
they're literally, they wererequiring from us that we
provide documentation of everysingle penny we'd made since we
escaped Scientology and all thisother nonsense.

(11:50):
It was like, oh my God, likewhat the heck is this?

SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
Anyway, my whole point for telling you this is
because that's how it was in asort of pr professional, legal,
moderated to some degreeenvironment.
Right.
So our lawyers, if they saidsomething.

SPEAKER_01 (12:11):
In a real world environment where it was like
the elements you'd expect ifyou're saying, hey, this these
people violated the law and andwe have a a complaint to take up
with them.
That's you would expect that.
Like you have somebodyadvocating for for you and your
uh and your what you know, youryour um testimony of what

(12:35):
happened.
Exactly.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 (12:36):
But the but my point is is this is a a legal, there's
a little bit of legal decorumwhere protection.
Yeah.
And so if they say somethingthat the that my lawyer doesn't
think I should answer, or it'sjust bull, it's bull and it's
not has nothing to do withanything, then our lawyer could
say object to the form of thequestion or object to the

(12:57):
whatever legal j jumbo jumping.
We're not attorneys.
Anyway.
Whatever the correct um, I thinkit was mainly object to the form
of the question or v or or uhunrelated or you know, the
irrelevant irrelevant and allthose other things.
Okay.
So in that environment, with allthese lawyers on their side and

(13:17):
our lawyer on our side, and it'sbeing transcribed.
The entire meeting is beingtranscribed and recorded on
video and live streamed.
So there's gonna be a record ofall this, and they can't they
can't really they can they canpush the rules and kind of be a
little evil like lawyers want tobe, or it's their lawyers or

(13:38):
them.

SPEAKER_01 (13:39):
Scientology lawyers.

SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Scientology lawyers.
Imagine taking money from themand just just destroying people
using their lawyers.
It's crazy to me.
Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 (13:49):
So crazy.

SPEAKER_03 (13:50):
So that gets us to the thing we want to talk to
today.

SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
So Which is really, really important to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 (13:57):
Tony Ortega posted a ton of documents on this on his
website, and there's a link inthe video description.

SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Um but there's there's a and by the way, sorry,
before we get into it, I willsay that now I've gotten a ton
more downloaded directly fromthe court document sites uh
additional material that eveneven more than what Tony um
downloaded.
So I'll be going through that incase there's other things that

(14:24):
we need to cover about this.

SPEAKER_03 (14:26):
Yeah.
Um and then so the case thatthis is is it's a case with
there's two former Sea Org,three former Sea Org members
that used to be in the Sea Org,and it was specifically at the
Free Winds, the cruise ship thatthey have in that sails between
Bonaire, Curacao, and Aruba asits main ports of call, if you

(14:49):
will.

SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Yep.
Free winds.

SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
The free winds, Scientology cruise ship.
If you ever see this cruise shipup against any other cruise ship
that you've ever seen, it lookslike a tugboat.
It looks there I've seen biggertugboats.

SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
And in reality, it would be better named prison
winds, not free winds.

SPEAKER_03 (15:08):
Well, regardless, it's it's not a big ship.
I think it it can hold like 300crew and maybe like 150 uh.
Yeah, like 400 total, I think.
And like 250, 300 passengers.

SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
I know I want to say it was like 420 or something.

SPEAKER_03 (15:24):
I know that when we went there to do events, we did
uh Scientology events when whenI was in the Sea Org.
Um in the 90s, we were doingevents there.
Every June, they'd have thisthing called the maiden Maiden
Voyage Anniversary.
So the first you get you get it.
Anyway, um we would sleep, likecrew members that worked on the

(15:46):
boat, we would be up all nightbuilding sets, and we'd get into
we had the rooms that we hadwere people's rooms that weren't
there during the day sleeping.

SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
Like staff of the ship.

SPEAKER_03 (15:58):
Like staff.
And I remembered, I'm like, I'mnot getting into another man's
warmth.
That's that's that's insanity tome.
So it just I'm if if I'm notlike in freezing conditions and
gonna die, I ain't doing that.
So we would just sleep underlike an equipment inside of an

(16:18):
equipment case or behind anequipment case in the backstage
area for just get a catnap for afew hours and I'll be good on
going and jumping into anotherdude's bed that was sweating and
sleeping in there all night.
Oh boy, not my cup of tea.
Anyway, so that's where theyworked.
They worked at this place.

SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
Yep.
And and and by the way, too, soit's Veleska Paris, Gawain, and
Laura Baxter.
And Veleska, I have known sinceshe was six years old.
She and I were both in the cadetorganization in the UK um
together.
And I mean, I remember that likeit was yesterday.

(17:00):
She arrived and did not speak aword of English.
Um anyway.
And then Gawain, I think.

SPEAKER_03 (17:06):
What language did she speak?
French.

SPEAKER_01 (17:08):
Okay.
Yeah.
Um and Gawain, I think, was alsoeither born into the sea
organization or got in at a veryyoung age.
And I'm not sure about his wifeLaura, but I know she got into
the sea organization also in inher in her teenage years, I
believe.
So, in other words, all secondgen, basically, for all intents
and purposes.

SPEAKER_03 (17:29):
And again, we we the this is this is a very key thing
because this is a this is acommon thing within Scientology.
If you talk to some of thesepeople that are speaking out
now, I'd say at least half gotinto Scientology when they were
pretty young.
Yep.
A teenager or even earlier inmost cases.

SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
Well before they had the agency and maturity to
consent to joining a cult.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
And also signing a billion-year contract is
probably not something somebodythirteen or fourteen should be
entertaining.

SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
To be fair, no human being should engage into a
billion-year contract,considering who knows what comes
next.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 (18:08):
But it's a little outrageous that you expect some
kids to sign up and it's like,yeah, they signed a contract.
More than a little.
We've got this signature on thecontract.

SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 (18:18):
Anyway, so that's what this is.
This is their their case waswent to court, went to the went
into the court system.

SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yep.
And then Scientology argued thatOh, and sorry, because all of
them were on the free wins asminors with no passports, uh, I
believe.

SPEAKER_03 (18:36):
Well, they held their passports.

SPEAKER_01 (18:38):
Yeah, they held their passports and they were
not they were incarcerated forall intents and purposes.

SPEAKER_03 (18:44):
Yeah.
So they're saying you did this.
Yeah.
And Scientology is saying, hey,listen, you signed a bunch of
documents that said you wouldn'tsue us, and the way this and you
in those documents it says youagree to arbitration.
And so Scientology argues to thecourt, hey, listen, this is
internal doctrine disputes.

(19:05):
These were members, and this isthis is between us and them.
The courts shouldn't be gettinginvolved in this at all.
And we have procedures forarbitration.
Now there is no scientist wecovered, we've covered this in
videos that we did with MikeRinder years ago regarding this
arbitration.
The word arbitration does notappear in any single document,

(19:29):
recording, anything that Hubbardever wrote.
There's no such thing asarbitration in Scientology.
It does not exist.

SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
In this context.
Not in this context.

SPEAKER_03 (19:39):
It doesn't exist.
It does not exist.
There's no procedures, there'sno there's no policy letter
regarding it, there's no whenyou do it, when you're not going
to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
There is a definition of it that we're
gonna show, but it's strictlyfor civil um disputes that has
to do with personal, like youknow, if a business owner in
Scientology has a dispute withan employee, for example.

SPEAKER_04 (20:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
And it's in in Scientology Policy, it
explicitly says it's not forlegal or ethics matters, which
again we're gonna cover.
So it's not a thing.
And also the point is, too, thatthis is something Scientology
has created starting in, I wantto say 2015, 16, I I don't

(20:24):
remember the exact year, but itwas in the Garcia lawsuit that
this became a thing.
And in all the lawsuits prior tothat, including ours, there was
never any thought, discussion,or mention of arbitration
because it was not a thing.

SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
Yeah.
Okay.
So what they did do was theyessentially said we have all
these ethics and justiceprocedures that we have
internally in Scientology andwe're gonna and that's what
we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 (20:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (20:58):
That thing these are already in place, there's
already doctrine covering them.
And so and and anybody who'sbeen in Scientology or inside C
org or an employee, what theycall a staff member in one of
their organizations, if you getwhat's called, there's there's
the there's a bunch of differentsteps, but there's basically

(21:19):
like an ethics interrogatory,um, there's a court of ethics,
and then there's another one,the highest justice action they
have is called a committee ofevidence.
All three of these, if you'rethe accused, you're guilty, and
all we need to do is round up abunch of people that want to

(21:41):
talk shit about you and let themsay what they want to say, and
we're all gonna decide thatyou're guilty.
I've never seen a committee ofevidence where the person was
not guilty.
Like where it was like like itwas like, oh no, this guy didn't
do anything.
It's never in the history ofAnyone that I've ever read, it's

(22:02):
always they the charge, likethey have these Scientology
crimes and misdemeanors and highcrimes, and it says charge, no
full knowingly uh d destroyingScientology or attempting to
alter scientists, whatever itis.
And then they said it saysrecommendation, guilty.

SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Yeah.
Well, well, also too.
So when you get a committee ofevidence, you have all the
crimes and the heart crimes, thecharges, and you you then have
to go in front of the committee,which is allegedly supposed to
be a board of your peers.

SPEAKER_03 (22:37):
Yeah, but it's also always the people that are the
the yes men and the butt kissersthat are always they're usually
officers in the C org, if you doit in the C org, or they're
executives in your organization.

SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
And then usually anyone who particularly has a P.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (22:58):
Wouldn't it always be the person you're like, oh
this is my this is the one guywho wants to be dead more than
anybody?
Yes.
He's a member.
No, so they have a chairman, asecretary, and then two or three
members usually.
Isn't that what it how it goes?
Chairman, secretary.

SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Yeah, so chairman, secretary, and then three to
seven three to seven members,depending on how many because
you can have a committee ofevidence for an individual
person, or you can have acommittee of evidence for
multiple people.
Yeah.
Um and you're expected, so whenyou're under a committee of
evidence, you're expected to goin front of that panel and give

(23:36):
them your pleas.

SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
Yes.
Like they say, they say countone, you know, knowingly not
applying Scientology technology.

SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
It's the no no no no, but listen, if you go in as
a person under a committee ofevidence and say, not guilty,
not guilty, not guilty, notguilty, not guilty, not guilty,
not guilty.

SPEAKER_03 (24:00):
Right here, right here, every time, every time.

SPEAKER_01 (24:03):
They're like, this person is being no best, there's
no remorse, they've made noethics change, and they're a
piece of shit.
Yeah, that's my language.

SPEAKER_03 (24:12):
That's 100% me.
I'd be like, this is bullshit.
These are trumped up charges.

SPEAKER_01 (24:18):
I'm just doing jobs, I'm making the then in the
findings and recommendations, itwill be like Billy Bob pled not
guilty.
We found him guilty.

SPEAKER_03 (24:28):
Yeah.
Anyway, my point is my point isis that all of even they start
with an interrogatory.
That's the first kind of umhint.
Hey, we're we're coming up.
We're coming up there.

SPEAKER_04 (24:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:43):
Be ready.
And they basically solicitanyone in anywhere in the
organization.
So if you worked in Golden EraProductions, they send an
interrogatory about youspecifically to 350 people, and
then they list out everything.

SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
As an invitation to shit on the person.

SPEAKER_03 (25:02):
It's basically they want to list out every possible
thing that you could have donethat they suspect you of doing,
and they just ask everybody onthe property to give us your
input.
If you, if this, you know howyou wanted to light this guy up,
this is your chance.
And then those become theevidence for the charges.

(25:24):
So if you if somebody says youdid it, you did it.
That's how it works.
And you didn't you they have areport, a knowledge report
saying you did the thing thatthey suspect you of doing.
So, but the ethics interrogatoryis the first step.
So they get all the dirt rightoff the bat.

SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
And then if you don't kind of toe the line or do
whatever they want you to do,then it's a court of ethics, is
the first one.
And that that's just one personis it gonna tell you the what
time it is and what's the deal.
And if you're like, I don'tthink that's what time it is,
and that ain't the deal, thenthey assign you pennant uh
things that you have to do tomake amends, or you have to do

(26:05):
condition of liability orconfusion, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (26:08):
I never actually had a court of ethics, I only ever
got it all.

SPEAKER_03 (26:12):
Committees of evidence.

SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
I had committees of evidence, plenty.

SPEAKER_03 (26:16):
Oh, I see.
You didn't have the court, butyou had the comments.

SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
No, it went straight to comments.
That's what I was saying.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:22):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
So then the first committee of evidence I ever got
was ordered directly by DavidMiscavige.

SPEAKER_03 (26:28):
Ooh, look at you.
Yeah, I was like, I think everycomment I got was ordered by
David Miscavige.
Okay.
Uh so what I'm trying to tellyou is those three things that
they do, they've sort ofco-opted all three of those
things and made them in to thisarbitration.

SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Yes.
And we're gonna show you howexactly this is complete bogus
creation, even by the words inScientology's own policies and
books.
We're gonna break it downexactly.

SPEAKER_03 (27:04):
Yeah.
So the the craziness is that theway they're doing it, it's like
the k internal kangaroo courtthat they have on steroids.
And then there's also thisaspect of what we were talking
about in the deposition.
So they basically round upanything anybody ever said bad

(27:26):
about you in Scientology, andthen they have reports from all
those people.
And in the case of thisarbitration, they brought those
people there to the meeting totalk directly to these people.

SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
Yeah, more than 30 people.

SPEAKER_03 (27:43):
Yeah.
So this is this is wildly insanethat they did it.

SPEAKER_01 (27:49):
It just blows me away, honestly, that uh a court
and a judge and anyone who wouldresearch and look into this
would be like, oh yeah, that's agood idea.
Like these people were abused asminors.
Let's send them back to theirabuser.

SPEAKER_03 (28:06):
Yeah, it's craziness.

SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Absolute insanity.

SPEAKER_03 (28:09):
And not only did they, and also I do want to say
the gal within Scientology thatwas running this whole thing is
a woman by the name of CatherineFrasier.
If you don't know who that is,she's the one that ambushed me
on the side of the highway whenI went there with the Danish
film crew, and she's also wasmade for.

SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
I'll add the link to that because that is some cra if
you haven't seen that, that issome you want to see how crazy
Scientology gets?

SPEAKER_03 (28:35):
And also this is her in real life, not in uh this
setting.
This is her in real life.
She's also in the film thatLouis Thoreau did called My
Scientology Movie.
Yeah.
And it's actually she comes offas a clown in that, but she also
And this is Jeff Hawkins'ex-wife.
Yes, and you get a kind of senseof how she is in real life if

(28:58):
you watch those two videos.
So to have her, you know, after20 Mountain Dews go into town in
this arbitration, I mean, it'swild that how basically how evil
uh she comes off in thetranscripts and the things that
she's saying and doing.
Okay.
The other thing, and we'll coverthis in some of the documents.

(29:20):
These guys were not allowed tobring their attorneys with them.
Right.
They weren't allowed to recordin on with writing or take notes
or um in any kind of recordingor transcription thing.
Um and they also weren't allowedto like bring up any testimony

(29:40):
of their own.
Right.
They basically were just beinggrilled and accused of things
and just had to sit there andlisten to all these people talk
shit.

SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
They were 100% being triggered and re-traumatized
intentionally with no no oneadvocating for them, no
representation, no support.
I mean, they were quiteliterally sent back to their
abusers so their abusers coulddo whatever the heck they wanted
with them.
I mean, it's it's absoluteinsanity that a court, any court

(30:13):
or judge would say, Oh, yeah,this is a good idea.
It's it's absolutely bonkers tome.
And and again, we'll cover someof the details that came out.

SPEAKER_03 (30:24):
Well, let's do it right now because we keep saying
we're gonna do it.
So um is it over?
Now, this is the this is thereason that I really wanted to
talk about this is because Ithink Scientology just torpedoed
their golden goose.

SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
Which is always what they do, by the way.
It's just a matter of when.

SPEAKER_03 (30:45):
Yeah, they could have played it cool and just
pretended to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
They could have even fabricated a set of rules like,
okay, here's the guidelines forthis.
Anything, but they but theydidn't they didn't even attempt
to play nice or to placate thecourt, or they basically Which
by the way is what tells me thatthis is being run directly and
specifically by David Miscavigethrough Kathy Fraser.

(31:15):
Not a doubt in my mind for onesecond.

SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
Yeah.
Okay, let's do this.

SPEAKER_01 (31:19):
Okay.
So this is the declaration ofDennis R.
Nolan, which Dennis R.
Nolan, as as we'll you'll see,is an expert witness that was
brought in by um Veleska and theBaxter's attorneys as an expert
on arbitration.
My name is Professor Dennis R.
Nolan.
I offer this declaration in thecase of Gwen Baxter et al.

(31:42):
v.
David Miscavige et al.
Now pending in the United StatesDistrict Court for the Middle
District of Florida.

SPEAKER_03 (31:48):
I don't think we need to read all this.
You can go to the documents onthe point being you'll see.

SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
You'll see, and we'll cover, go to the next
slide.
I have been involved with laborand employment law since my
graduation from law school 56years ago.
For almost all of that time, myfocus has been on the
arbitration and mediation ofemployment disputes, which this
is.
My resume is attached, but hereare the main elements r relevant
to this case.

(32:13):
Again, the point being This guyknows this guy has yeah, he
knows all of his things.

SPEAKER_03 (32:19):
Don't read all of it.

SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
Okay.
Um to do that, however,practitioners, scholars, and
judges misguard against systemsthat use the term quote
arbitration, unquote, todisguise one-sided sham systems.
Um and then I have emphasisemphasized the importance of
ensuring that arbitrationprovides a fair and ethical
alternative to litigation.

SPEAKER_03 (32:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:42):
Again.

SPEAKER_03 (32:42):
And then he also does say in there he is being
compensated to give his opinionon this.

SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
Yep.
And then I um so I've neverencountered a system less worthy
of the title of arbitration.
It possesses none of theelements of a classic
arbitration and does not providefor basic guarantees of
fairness.
It lacks any apparent rules.

(33:08):
It does not provide a fairprocedure or a neutral decision
maker.
Its own panel clearly stated itwould not consider or apply
federal or state law.
There is simply no way thatsystem could provide an adequate
alternative forum to resolveplaintiffs' legal claims.

SPEAKER_03 (33:30):
Okay.
So now here is this is where Ithink Scientology boofed this
because if they would haveplayed it cool and they would
have had something that was eventhough it was all fake and
make-believe and not in realitywhat they would do.

SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (33:46):
And this and they would have had somebody say,
yeah, i I mean, yeah, they theyhad their they they disagree.
You know, it's a he said, shesaid sort of thing.
And uh I don't know how the wwhich way they should go.
You know.
But if they had a neutraldecision maker, then even that
alone would be like, okay,perfect.
This is how we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (34:07):
Because they went so crazy over the top on this
thing, it's now everybody'sgonna see.
Because we we've been sayingthis the whole time.
This is exactly what they'redoing.

SPEAKER_01 (34:18):
And this has been going on, by the way, since
2022, I believe, in theirlawsuit.

SPEAKER_03 (34:23):
Yes, in this lawsuit.
It came up on the Garcia lawsuitalmost, you know, more than 10
years ago at this point.
Exactly.
So but there was never the thebecause uh the people that I
want to say because of thepeople that were suing, bringing
these lawsuits againstScientology, since they knew
there was no such thing asarbitration, they assumed this

(34:45):
is what it would be.
And in so everybody who did itwas like, yeah, it's it was a
it's a total joke.
They didn't we we they wouldn'tlet us record it, they wouldn't
let us do this, they wouldn't umanyway.
We have our own direct uhinvolvement in that from when we
knew those people.
We basically knew these peoplethat were speaking out.

(35:07):
And um and we were like, thisain't no it ain't no picnic
going into doing a lawsuit withthese guys.
It's gonna they really know howto work the system in their
favor.
And if you just have your I meanthere's not that there's not a
long list of lawyers andattorney firms that are gonna
sue Scientology.

(35:28):
So when you get a guy who'sgonna, it's not like you got
like, uh we let's let's lookthrough the list again.
No, you got you got that guy.
It's called Slim Pickings.
Yeah, you got that guy.
That's your guy.
Yeah.
There ain't no other guys.
He can't even get his otherlawyer to the phone.

SPEAKER_01 (35:43):
And we were so naive going into that lawsuit.
We had no idea what we were upagainst.

SPEAKER_03 (35:49):
Anyway, let's you know, let's keep going on here.

SPEAKER_01 (35:51):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (35:52):
So now this is another expert that they brought
in who was a licensedpsychologist.

SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
Yeah, so this is actually the only ex the only
person other than the plaintiffsthat were allowed.
That that appeared before thispanel.
Okay.
Okay.
Because the Dennis Nolan personstudied all the documents, but
he didn't actually attend inperson.

SPEAKER_03 (36:13):
She attended and she was part of the process.

SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Um I'm a licensed psychologist and was retained as
an expert in this matter.
I submit this declaration basedon my personal knowledge and
observations.
I appeared at a Scientologyarbitration proceeding.
So there you go.
She she actually attended.
There can be no arbitration asthe law knows it, without a
neutral decision maker.

(36:38):
A system lacking a neutraldecision maker is clearly not an
alternative forum to a court.
As such, a system obviouslycould not provide effective
vindication of statutory rights.
Plaintiff's experience using theScientology system clearly shows
that the supposed arbitrationpanel was not neutral.

(36:59):
And then later, the panel wouldnot permit some questions and
require that all others berephrased by the by the panel
chair, Kathy Fraser.

SPEAKER_03 (37:10):
Also, Kathy's not uh she has no degree in in the only
expertise is carrying out DavidMiscavige's orders.

SPEAKER_01 (37:20):
She has been his No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 (37:21):
She is a flap handler.
She that is her job is she whenshe was in Golden Air, at least
when we were there, she was theport captain for Golden Air
Productions.
And that's the person that issupposed to ensure that nobody
in the port that the Sea Org isin is mad with the C org.

(37:43):
And if they are, she's gottasort it out.
Getting sued is definitely inthat zone of things that need to
be handled.

SPEAKER_01 (37:51):
And actually, ironically, before she came to
the imp base, she was at thefree winch.

SPEAKER_03 (37:57):
She was posting.
That was when she was Kathy D.
Simone, right?

SPEAKER_01 (38:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
And her son, Corinne D.
Simone, was one of the peoplethat came to testify.

SPEAKER_03 (38:07):
Against them.

SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (38:09):
Wowzers.

SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Yeah.
Okay, so the panel would notpermit some questions and
require.
Okay, so we covered that.
That was Kathy.
She's referencing Kathy.
Worse, the panel chair beratedplaintiffs and undercut their
claims.

SPEAKER_03 (38:24):
Yeah.
Because that's what her job isto do.

SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
Yeah, exactly.
The process felt biased,unprofessional, and clinically,
I observed that it humiliatedand intimidated the claimants
who had to scramble to processthe photos.
Okay, so the photos is inreference to this being shown
800 photos in quick successionof a past many claimants allege
as linked to abuse and not beingallowed to explain, process, or

(38:51):
access the photos were unhelpfulto their mental distress.
So basically, they collected 800photos of their entire life.
Like, oh look, you're smiling.
Like, of course, you're small.

SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
This is a common thing.

SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
This is so common.
I mean, they they have this onour on our hate sites like,
look, she's smiling.
Or even even in my deposition,if you search uh cadet
organization Scientology, you'llsee the famous photo of the
cadet organization with me inthe front row in the UK.
Yeah.
And Mark Marmorough showed methat photo and he said, Did you

(39:26):
have a happy childhood?
And I was like, no.

SPEAKER_03 (39:31):
So here's the best part.
When you're working 20 hours aday and you're sleeping under
your desk and you're going tothe RPF, the rehabilitation
project force, Scientology'slittle rehab camp, reprogramming
camp for you, there ain't no onearound taking pictures.
But if you're at a Sea Org daythat happens maybe once a year,

(39:51):
if you're lucky and everybodygets half the day off to run
around and play team sports liketuga-war and ping pong, oh,
they're gonna have some picturesof you playing that ping pong or
doing that tug-of-war.
In my case, I don't dotug-of-war.
That's just seems a littlewildly dangerous to me.

SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
And there were people who broke bones.

SPEAKER_03 (40:18):
Anyway, not doing that.
But I was up for a game of pingpong one time, the entire time I
was there, and they got apicture of me blowing.

SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
And the one time that they brought in jet skis.

SPEAKER_03 (40:32):
Yeah, and I was the only person there who had long
experience with jet skis and hadhad jet skis when I lived with
my friend Jesse.
So I knew how they ran and Iknew you know how to work them
and gas them up and all thatstuff.
And so I was chosen to be thejet ski I see, and we had a tiny
little lake.
The one we would get thrown inif we went overboard for being a

(40:53):
bad boy.
We get thrown in this muckylake.
They put some jet skis in there.
Yeah.
And of course, it was so tiny,somebody crashed into the side
of the lake and the jet ski wasdestroyed.

SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
The 17-year-old that had never operated a jet ski
before.

SPEAKER_03 (41:08):
They tried to bill me for it, but I had a$80 in to
my name.
So the I think the then portcaptain at the time told them,
hey, come on, take it easy.
And they did something.
They paid extra the somebodyfrom Scientology paid and I
didn't have to pay.

SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
But regardless of it, I mean it wasn't your fault.
Just because you were in chargeof the I w that's true.

SPEAKER_03 (41:32):
One year I did the jet skis and they got pictures
of me running running the peaklike helping people get on jet
skis in the water.

SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (41:39):
And then the when I played ping pong one time, they
got me a picture of me playingping pong.
And because I played ping pong,and because I w helped other
people get on jet skis all daylong, that was everything else
didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 (41:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:55):
Anyway, it's crazy.
So we did they didn't really, inthe in the overall scheme of
things, they didn't really havethat many pictures of us.
Maybe 20 or 30 that I remember.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (42:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (42:06):
Of us.

SPEAKER_01 (42:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (42:08):
They showed these guys 800 pictures.

SPEAKER_01 (42:10):
800 pictures.

SPEAKER_03 (42:11):
That's insanity.

SPEAKER_01 (42:12):
It is.

SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
That's crazy time.

SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (42:14):
They have 800 pictures of these people doing
stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (42:16):
I know.
And it's like okay, who anyway.
It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 (42:22):
You know, somebody had to go through all the
negatives of all of the picturesever shot on the free wins.
Right.
And find them.
Just like they did with us.
Some of those pictures I'd neverseen.
I didn't even know somebody tookthe picture.
I know.
When I saw them, when I saw thepicture, it was the first time I
had seen that there was apicture of me.
Anyway, crazy stuff, guys.

(42:43):
Okay, so sh this the this womanis basically saying the exact
same thing the other guy said.
There's no neutral decisionmaker.
And you guys are basicallylighting these guys up and
laying into them.
And and they're not allowed todo, say anything or question or
do anything.
They just got to sit there andtake it.

SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Yep.
And again, this is a huge partof why we're talking about this
today.
This is also from thepsychologist.
Similarly, the panel chair,Kathy Fraser, also asked me
about the Hetley case and askedme to read portions, portions of
a legal opinion during theproceeding.
Considerable time was spent onthis.

(43:20):
I was then questioned on it andwas demanded to agree publicly
that the opinion was favorableto Scientology.
We'll get to this.

SPEAKER_03 (43:29):
Crazy time.

SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Okay, so this is from the this is an excerpt from
the uh final ruling in our case.
And I guarantee this is not thesection the psychologist was
asked to read.
Likewise, we do not decide howthe Headleys might have fared
under a different statute or onother legal theories.

(43:54):
The Headlees abandoned claimsunder federal and state minimum
wage laws, and although Theheadlees marshaled evidence of
potentially tortious conduct.
They did not bring claims forassault, battery, false
imprisonment, intentionalinfliction of emotional
distress, or any of a number ofother theories that might have

(44:15):
better fit the evidence.

SPEAKER_03 (44:17):
Thanks, lawyers.

SPEAKER_01 (44:18):
Yeah.
So there you go.
You know, anyway.
But Scientology is trying tobasically pick out pieces to
say, oh, you shouldn't be doingthis because the Headleys lost,
and we're like, hell no.
Anyway.
Why are you reading?
Oh, this is a totally separatething.

(44:38):
Yeah.
So this this is um thensubsequent to that ruling that
we just read, Scientology triedto silence us.
And the this is the letter thatthey sent, um in which they were
so we uh Scientology was awardedfees of forty-three thousand

(44:59):
dollars that we were ordered topay.

SPEAKER_03 (45:01):
Um that's these depositions that we're talking
about.
Firing fees, that's where we'recircling back around.

SPEAKER_01 (45:07):
And um Scientology specifically stated to our
lawyers that they were going toaggressively pursue collection
unless we paid in full.
Um our attorneys approached themto say, hey, our our um our
clients will agree to neverspeak, you know, not pursue any
further legal action, andScientology came back with this.

(45:29):
They said that they would waivethe bill if we agreed to full
and permanent disengagementbetween themselves on one hand
and Scientology and ReligiousTechnology Center on the other
hand.
This would include no furtheranti-Scientology activity under
any circumstance at any time,including media or internet

(45:50):
postings disparagingScientology, aka speaking the
truth of the abuses weexperienced, or Scientologists.
The Headlees will turn over toScientology and Religious
Technology Center all rights tothe Blown for Good book.
The Headleys agree to discusswith Scientology and RTC all of
their contacts, aka No, it sayswith Marty Rathman.

(46:12):
Yeah, no, no, I'm saying rat outuh with Marty Rathman and any
others involved in uhdisparaging Scientology and RTC,
including any media contacts.
So basically, we're we we wereexpected to turn over and uh spy
on any former Scientologistswe'd ever talked to.
And turn over all the info aboutmedia contacts, exactly.

(46:35):
Um anyway, needless to say, itwas no.

SPEAKER_03 (46:38):
Well, no, there's more.

SPEAKER_01 (46:40):
Um the headlees agree to discuss with CSI and
RTC all of their contacts withMarty Rathbin and any other oh,
media contacts.
Please let me know if yourclients are agreeable to the
above and we can prepareappropriate documentation.

SPEAKER_03 (46:52):
Anyway, I said screw you.
Yes, we both and we basicallyscraped up 43k and shot it their
way.

SPEAKER_01 (46:59):
Yeah.
Um and then this is just thepart where this is just a
summary from Wikipedia about thelawsuit.
Um the court suggested thatother claims might have
withstood a pellet review, hadthe Headleys brought them, such
as assault battery or any of anumber of other theories.
And the point being, you know,again, it's it's always going to

(47:20):
be um like Mark said, there'snot a long line of attorneys
willing to stand up againstScientology.
So this is the definition ofarbitration from the admin
dictionary in Scientology, aprocedure for settling a
dispute, which is historicallypurely business related, whereby
the disputing parties agree onan impartial third party called

(47:44):
an arbitrator who decides on thematter after a thorough
examination of the issuespresented by the disputing
parties.
The decision of the arbitratoris final and binding on the
disputing party.
So, in other words, even ifyou're going to say that this
definition applies to thiskangaroo court that they've
created, it specifically, bytheir words, requires an

(48:07):
impartial third party, whichthis panel is not.

SPEAKER_03 (48:11):
Exactly.
And this really is for what theycall WISE, the World Enterprise
Institute of ScientologyEnterprises.
And any company that aScientologist owns or runs is
encouraged heavily to become amember of WISE.

(48:31):
And what happens is ifScientology gets one of those
people, like it's the CFO orhe's the Treasury guy, and he
takes$100,000 from the companyand gives it to Scientology,
they aren't allowed to go to lawenforcement because they have
entered into an arbitrationagreement with the World

(48:52):
Institute of ScientologyEnterprises.
And they're not allowed to go tolaw.

SPEAKER_01 (48:56):
And we've heard so many stories of even those
people going arbitrations goingsideways to where it's like, oh
it's the same thing.
They were agreed to pay money tothis to ex-business owner.
But of course, if they're givingthat money instead to
Scientology, Scientology is notgoing to do anything about it.
It's a complete joke.

SPEAKER_03 (49:16):
Anyway, it's the same sort of kangaroo court, but
for Scientology members that arebusiness owners.
It's basically another way toget money and have hey no no no
no, you can't do anythingbecause you're a wise member,
and because you're a wisemember, you agree to arbitration
if there was any disputes.

SPEAKER_01 (49:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:34):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (49:35):
So Okay, and this is just other examples, but again,
it's specifically strictlysupposed to be applied to civil
matters, not legal, you know,state and federal law
violations.

SPEAKER_03 (49:50):
Yeah.
Anyway, it's it's basically likeif Oh, and also, too, look at
this.

SPEAKER_01 (49:56):
The reason I included this, according to
this, professional attorneys mayappear before it.
Yeah.
Well, then why were they deniedto appear in anyway?
Again, it's just it's just anexample of what a joke it is,
even by Scientology's own words.

SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
But in ch in Chaplain's court, if that a lot
of that was if there was aperson who was a Scientologist,
a lot of times if somebodydoesn't have money to do
Scientology courses and they'retrying to get like$50,000 out of
this person to do OT levels orsome courses or get auditing or
whatever, they'll ask thatperson, hey, do you mind if we

(50:36):
ask this guy?
He's got tons of dough.
If we ask this guy to lend you$50,000.

SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
That's what happened with my stepdad.

SPEAKER_03 (50:42):
Yeah.
So then they tell, and now thisother guy who's got a lot of
money, he's in a little bit oftrouble because he's one of the
reasons he's got a lot of moneyis he's doing some kind of shady
things.
And he's in trouble withScientology.
And he's basically trying to getin their good graces, and they
say, Listen, we're gonna letthis whole thing go, but we have

(51:03):
this guy who wants to get ontohis OT levels and he needs
$50,000.
If you're willing to loan himthe$50K, then aren't we good.
This whole thing's you're good.
You're back in the goods again.
And so then that guy le givesthat guy the$50K, and that dude
has no$50K to pay back to thatdude.

SPEAKER_01 (51:19):
And nor did that dude have$50K in the first
place.

SPEAKER_03 (51:22):
That's right.
That guy also was shady, and hewas making out like a guy.

SPEAKER_01 (51:26):
At least in the case with my stepdad, shady guy
number one just put it on hiscredit cards, and then stepdad
was just paying interest on anAmerican Express charge for
40,000 pounds.
You know, it's just insanity.

SPEAKER_03 (51:40):
Anyway, it's it's basically the same thing, but
they what they do to theirScientology members that are
also business members or rich,wealthy Scientologists that have
a that either have a lot ofmoney or make out the And you
remind me too.

SPEAKER_01 (51:57):
A lot of times this would be like, oh, you're in a
lower condition, but hey, if youloan Billy Bob$30,000, that can
be your immense.
That can be how you can get backin good state.
Totally.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (52:09):
The reason we know this, a lot of this, is because
we I went to a Scientologyschool, and guess whose kids
were at the Scientology school?
Ken Moxon's kids were at thatschool, and he was a big
Scientology attorney, and therewere lots of parents of kids
that went to this school thatwere fairly wealthy and Craig

(52:30):
Jensen.
Yeah, Craig Jensen.
A lot of these guys, and so whennonsense would be be happening
between companies or theparents, or there'd be
disgruntled Scientologists andtheir disgruntled Scientology
kids.
Yep.
And so we'd hear about all kindsof this stuff, and all roads
lead to Scientology in terms ofwho's making out at the end of

(52:52):
this thing.
It ain't the people trying toarbitrate their problems.
They if that person owed you100K and they gave it to
Scientology, that 100K went tothe best place it could have
gone, according to Scientology.

SPEAKER_00 (53:04):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (53:05):
Okay.
This is just another thing forthe uh chaplain's court.

SPEAKER_00 (53:09):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (53:10):
And then yeah, it's on Tony's thing.
We really want to make sure thatuh, you know, we credit Tony
Ortega because Tony Ortega'sbeen reporting on Scientology
for as long as we've beentalking about it and and well
before.
But he but he also covers he'sprobably covered this case since

(53:32):
the day it was filed.
And so you can see every step ofthe way how this thing's gone.
And and also there's other casesthat he reports on there as
well.
It's not just this one.

SPEAKER_01 (53:44):
So and by the way, we should mention that um at
least so now there is a pendingmotion to reverse this whole
arbitration kangaroo court.
But the judge ruled that thesedocuments had to be made public.
Scientology was trying to keepthem 100%.

(54:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (54:04):
So so that's why, you know, well that that's why I
think I think, as always,they've got they've got to get
some steel-toe boots over therein Scientology because they'd be
shooting themselves in the footevery goddamn tr chance they
get.
So they really went overboard onthis.
They didn't.
And it's pr I mean if the co ifthe court system is at all fair

(54:30):
because Scientology is gonnaargue, hey, hey, hey, this but
this is our doctrine.
You can't I they're gonnathey're gonna they're gonna
they're gonna le uh string thisout for as long as humanly
possible and try to weareverybody on the opposing side
down, and that's their thing.
It this is in all these OSAdocuments that we've gone over.

(54:50):
They're not trying to win acase, they're trying to destroy
the other person utterly throughthe case.
That's they're they're basicallygiven legal authority to now
just jack you over as much aspossible so that you'll go away
and you'll tell everybody elsethat it was a a shit show and

(55:11):
that it was horrible.
And oh my god, that's what theywant.
They want you to know that theyhave millions and millions of
dollars at their disposal.
They don't care if what happens,they want you, they want to wear
you down and make you abandonthe case.

SPEAKER_01 (55:29):
Yeah, and in this case, Veleska, Laura, and Gawain
live in Australia.
They were not allowed to peerappear remotely, they were
required to travel all the wayto Florida and spend 15 days
getting re-traumatized,reabused, and everything else.
Along with, I mean, the BaxkaBaxters have four children.

(55:50):
Their youngest is less than sixmonths old.
They had to come suffer throughall of this with a newborn baby.
I mean, it's insanity.

SPEAKER_03 (56:00):
Anyway, I hope that this basically torpedoes.
That's my wish that this reallytorpedoes this, and hopefully
the lawyers in this case forthese guys can argue this well
enough with enough informationthat it's clear that this is all

(56:22):
bullshit.
Which it's always been.
We all we've been talking aboutthis freaking.

SPEAKER_01 (56:26):
We've been talking about this since the moment this
started, that this was bogus.

SPEAKER_03 (56:30):
But there was never any documentation or full
information like this that wasprovided, and they didn't have
these experts come in.
They didn't none of thathappened on any of these other
ones.
This is the first time thatsomebody figured out, well,
let's do it this way, and thenthat way we can show what how
this thing goes down.

SPEAKER_00 (56:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (56:48):
So hopefully, you know, hopefully that does it.
So I think that was it, right?

SPEAKER_01 (56:53):
Yeah.
So we'll do some questions andwe have a giveaway for today.
Thank you very much to Dr.
X.
And April 10th, yeah, was MikeRender's birthday.
Yeah.
So in honor of Mike Rinder, um,we have some giveaways for the
next few weeks of LeahBobbleheads, Mike Bobbleheads.

SPEAKER_03 (57:11):
Yeah, and and Claire wants to do this make it fair
for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 (57:15):
Yes, I'm all for that.

SPEAKER_03 (57:17):
So she wants to do, we're gonna do a giveaway that's
based on the StreamYard giveawaytool that just captures any
comments during the video, andyou anything you've commented,
you automatically get enteredinto win.
Okay.
Now, separately from that,Claire is saying for all of you
people that are listening orwatching on the replay, yep, and

(57:39):
you're listening to this, youcan go on to the video on
YouTube and you can make acomment there, and you will be
uh you'll be picked and we'llannounce that person in the next
week's or the next episode thatwe do live.

SPEAKER_00 (57:54):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (57:55):
And then you'll you'll be might have even
already gotten your thing bythat time if you email Claire.

SPEAKER_01 (58:01):
I I I just randomly pick a comment on the video
afterwards and say, But you haveto do it after after like a a
week.

SPEAKER_03 (58:09):
Yeah.
So then we can do it right thenafter we pick it.

SPEAKER_01 (58:12):
Okay, very good.

SPEAKER_03 (58:12):
So it gives people some time.

SPEAKER_02 (58:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (58:14):
So with in a week within this video, comment.
You can say whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (58:20):
Yes.
For either a Leah bobblehead ora Mike Bobblehead.

SPEAKER_03 (58:23):
Yeah.
More points if you put Xenu andthe Homeboys and work it into
there somehow.
Just to just for the algorithm.
You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 (58:30):
We do enjoy comments, so have fun with it.

SPEAKER_03 (58:33):
We want to get Xenu and my Xenu and the Homeboys
trending.
You can also get a bet uh one ofthese very cool desk.
Look, it's perfectly lined upwith a camera.
Um Zenu and the Body Thetans,desk band.
Um also, I don't know if youguys saw this here.
I wasn't gonna say anythingunless you guys said anything,

(58:54):
but we got our hands on one ofthese little puppies.
Now, children in Scientologymade this, and we're gonna open
it up.
And unsurprisingly, it will looklike children made this on the
inside.
So let me know in the commentsif you want me to do a video on
this e-meter, and uh, and wemight get around to doing that.
I gotta figure out how.

(59:14):
I might have to have a camera uphere so you guys can see me.
It will be like an unboxingvideo.
Scientology unboxing thee-meter.

SPEAKER_01 (59:23):
Umboxing.
Oh my gosh.
Anyway, you know, it's likebehind the curtain at at Oz.

SPEAKER_03 (59:31):
Oh, yeah.
This is some serious wizardlyshit going on inside this thing.
Seriously.
Telling you, when we open thisthing up, you're gonna be
surprised that they're chargingfive thousand dollars for these.
This is an old one, but theystill charge five G's for them.
The new ones are even cheaperthan this one.
They're all made overseas in thein a factory somewhere, and

(59:52):
they're just stamping them out.

SPEAKER_02 (59:54):
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (59:55):
Anyway, so the out went the window of having to
have Sea Org members make theseso they could be technically
accurate.
That went right out the tour.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:02):
Technically accurate by somebody who's never operated
a you know, welding on all anyof those things.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:09):
This is 400, maybe $500 worth of parts that Golden
Era spent to make this, and theycharge$5,000 for them.
Okay.
The new ones that they have thatlook like an easy bake oven,
don't try to cook brownies inthis thing.
Um the that has$40 worth ofparts.

(01:00:31):
It's cost four zero dollars, andthey couldn't lower the price
because then that would make thenew one seem cheaper.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:39):
Yeah, which would be a D-grade.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:41):
So they're still charging$5,000 for something
that has that cost Scientology$40 to make.
So if they really wanted to getthese things out there and they
wanted to kind of apply theirown philosoph philosophy of what
let's get as many people intoScientology as we can, they'd be
a hundred bucks.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:58):
Yeah, or even open source Well, they already have
it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:02):
There's already people on the e-meter.
If you guys really want to godown a rabbit hole, somebody
made one of these things, youjust plug in a USB thing to your
uh computer and you can doauditing on your computer.
It hasn't it's like an it'sliterally an e-meter.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:18):
Anyway, so funny.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:19):
Okay, we're gonna do this giveaway.
All right, enough yapping.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:22):
And then we'll do some comments.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:24):
Uh, comments.
Yeah.
Oh, look at that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:26):
All right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:27):
Okay, let's see.
Can we do this?
We haven't done this in a longtime.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:30):
I know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:32):
I was vamping for a little bit so you guys could get
in there and do the comments.
We're about to do this.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:36):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:37):
Okay, here we go.
We're gonna do the draw.
You guys are seeing this, right?
Oh, you don't see my mouse, butI'm hitting the button.
Hey, just just go there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:46):
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:47):
There we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:48):
This is my favorite part.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:49):
Yeah, when you win.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:50):
I like it when it slows down at the end.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:53):
Oh, Tracy, you almost got it.
Silvo sings.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:58):
Nice.
Congratulations.
Send me an email, Claire atblownforgood.com.
We will get you taken care of.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:08):
Okay.
Um, you know, we haven't donethis in a while.
You you we should do questions?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:14):
Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:15):
Okay.
I don't know.
I don't know how this thingworks.
I just work here.
I just show that.
You just work here.
You you tell me we're doing comedown here and I'm like, what are
we doing?
Oh, there's some slides.
Okay.
Um, oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:29):
Okay.
Yes, do a video on the innardsfrom the e-meter.
Yeah.
There you go.
Okay.
I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:35):
It's got to get more than one person.
And you really, we gotta hear.
I gotta it's gotta beoverwhelming.
That's what you can comment ifyou're watching the replay.
Just say, yes, I want an I wantan e-meter.
You can the more people that saythat, that's your comment, and
then you get innered in to win.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:52):
Yeah.
Hi from West Virginia.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:54):
Oh, yeah, we got people coming from all over.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:56):
Anita, hi from the Netherlands.
Thank you for being here at LoveFood Kitchen.
Looking forward to more from theCracker Liquor and the Ginch.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:03):
I'm telling you, we have fully tested out this
cracker theory.
I can't eat crackers.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:08):
No, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:09):
I've I've never been a big cracker guy, and
especially not now.
And that well, yeah.
I'd be lying if I didn't tellyou we got like at least a
hundred boxes of crackers inhere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:22):
We did.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:23):
We had we had every from all all over the world.
We had Australian crackers, wehad English crackers, we had
crackers from South America.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:31):
We had crackers French crackers.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:33):
We had crackers fancy crackers, shitty crackers,
Dumbo crackers, uh you name it.
We we probably still have 20bags left over from the hundred
that we had.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:43):
So we had so many crackers that we discovered you
have a gluten intolerance.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:46):
I just can't eat crackers.
Just it ain't happening.
I mean, even just a littlehandful.
It's like, no, don't do thatagain.
No.
And I was trying all thesedifferent tractors.
I was wondering what was goingon with me, and then I was like,
I think it might be thecrackers.
I'm not, I didn't do thiscracker thing.
I'm telling you.
They made that we were j we werelikely what happened is we were
messing with her, and we saidthat's what we did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:09):
For anyone who doesn't understand the context
of this, Scientology did a hatevideo.
Tell me.
Literally from someone we usedto work with saying, He licked
my crackers.
He licked her crackers.
You literally cannot make thisup.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:22):
They were on my desk.
Yeah.
And then she took them off mydesks, and then after she ate
them, I said, Hey, hey, welicked those.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:29):
Um who does that?
Um, Anita, hi from theNetherlands.
Mary Kay, hi from Albuquerque onthis lovely Sunday.
Love Foo Kitchen.
Oh, yeah, we did that one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:40):
No.
Oh, yeah, that's where thecracker looks like.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:42):
Yeah, that's how we got off on that rabbit hole.
Clara, happy Sunday.
Yes, thank you to our mods,Clara and Catherine.
Angel Cat, good morning fromSumlin, California.
Happy Sunday from Indiana.
Uh Katie, happy Sunday fromGalway, Ireland.
Good to see you, Katie.
Yes, we knew that.
Jack Shaw, greetings fromHenderson, Nevada.

(01:05:05):
Old Techie, hi from Nebraska,good to see you here.
Amy Small, good afternoon from asunny but chilly somewhere.
I missed that one.
Oh.
Wisconsin, there we go.
Jacob Harkey in the house.
Hello, all from Monbrovia,California.
Nice.
Linda, oh my god, an e-meter.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:26):
Slip shot, hi from Detroit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:29):
I wanted to say, they've got all these people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:33):
I don't exactly know where this one came from, but
they got a lot of people thatare Scientologists that are
putting all their Scientologystuff in the storage lockers.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:42):
Or they're giving it the it gets given to the kids or
something.
And there's so much of thisstuff floating around.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:48):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:49):
If you got one of the new e meters, we'll take
that one.
Yeah, if this one was theamazing thing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:54):
We could we could debunk the whole pinch test
drama.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:58):
I could one hundred percent make this work.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:00):
Really?
Oh yeah.
You could do a pinch test.
I've built break down how howit's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:06):
I'd say I built at least I've built personally at
least a hundred of these myself.
It was my job to quality controlcheck these for a bit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:16):
Right.
I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:17):
So I know these two.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:18):
And we did all hands when That's right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:20):
We made harnesses, we installed dials, we've got to
do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:22):
That's when I that's uh on an e-meter is when I
learned how to weld.
I mean, I wouldn't exactly say Ilearned how to weld.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:30):
First of all, how well did she learn that it's not
even frickin' called welding?
Okay?
That's what I'm saying here,guys.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:38):
What?

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:39):
It's called soldering.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:40):
Oh, soldering.
That's what I meant.
You know what I meant.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:43):
If you're a welder and you said solder, or if
you're a solderer and you sayweld, they ain't.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:50):
Can it please not be the pick-on Claire Day?
It's not.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:53):
I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:54):
Come on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:55):
You're making a point on how well you were
trained.
That you didn't that you didn'teven know what you were doing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:59):
I mean, I was 17.
I didn't know up from down whenit came to that nonsense.
Oh my God.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:06):
Guys, they had people building these that
didn't know the differencebetween soldering and welding.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:11):
Yeah.
That's as I just proved.
There you go.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:16):
And she was soldering.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:18):
I was soldering.
Is that what an emeter lookslike?
It reminds me of a Fisher Pricetoy lol.
Yes, exactly.
And yes, that is.
Um that's um a quantum markseven.
Yeah, so this was released in Ithink the early late 80s or
early 90s.
So there are later iterations ofit that looks even more like a
what do you call it?

(01:07:38):
An easy bake oven.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:40):
Yeah, you know what?
I'm gonna give out a spoileralert.
Old old techie.
Is it old techie?

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:45):
Uh look up the patent for the e-meter.
It's old techie.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:54):
Pretty much.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:54):
Tell me I'm wrong, old techie.
He'll probably say the mark,he'll say the Mark Six or the
Mark.
He won't say this one, but he'llsay which one he did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:03):
Eddie Moore in the house.
Hello from New London,Connecticut.
Kathy, hello from Maryland.
Uh Karen, happy Sunday fromNorthern California.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:12):
God, we got a lot of people in here today.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:14):
Skidberta, hello from Georgetown, California.
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:17):
Look at this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:18):
Paul Vargason, hello from Oporto, Portugal.
Wow.
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:22):
This is wild.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:23):
Uh hello from Tuolemy.
Nice.
There you go.
Uh Angela is love and life.
Hey y'all.
Sunny hugs from the south ofFrance.
Nice.
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:33):
Okay.
Well, thanks for writing in,guys.
Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:37):
Ironic.
Right before Mark showed up atthe Imp base, the entire
cassette duplication crew gotKamevd and fined$39,000.
Mark doesn't know about this.
They threw him in the lion'sden.
That part you knew.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:50):
I was the very first person to arrive to replace all
of the people.
This is DC.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:57):
I didn't know that they were billed$39,000.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:00):
And they all either went to the RPF or were kicked
out of the Sea Org.
That was it.
There was no the only person whodidn't get those things happen
to her was Shelley Miscavige'ssister.
And she was like a lieutenant JGjunior grade.
Like that's a take.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:19):
I mean, yeah, she'd been working with L.
Ron Hubbard since she was like13 years old.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:23):
So she was she was a lifer.
She'd been in the Sea Org for 3025 years at this point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:28):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:29):
And she was the only person that didn't go to the RPF
or get kicked out.
But she was Lieutenant JG.
She was reduced to Swamper.
She was basically all of herrank for 30, 25 years was all
canceled, and she was the onlyperson that knew how the place
worked.
And when I showed up, it wasjust her and I to fix to fix

(01:09:50):
everything that was destroyedand broken.
Anyway, it's on it's in my book.
But yeah, old Techie, yeah.
Uh old Techie and I go back till1990.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:00):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:00):
So he knows he knows what time it is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:03):
Been around the block multiple times.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:05):
Um okay, here's another question from Bri Brian.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:07):
Brian, question Are public Scientologists required
to sign arbitration agreementsto, or is it just C org members?

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:14):
It's everybody.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:15):
Yeah.
Now it didn't used to be.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:17):
This is a They had they had a they had a little s
like a lighter language inthere, but basically like we'll
just sort it out between us orwhatever.
But now there's forms.
Every time you complete acourse, every time you sign up
for a course, there you'reScientologists are signing these
arbitration, these contracts orenrollment agreements, and they

(01:10:40):
all have this arbitration clausein every single one of them now,
so that they can try tobasically it's a psyop on
Scientologists so that they knowthey can't go to the uh they
can't go to the courts or thepolice because you've agreed to
deal with it with us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:59):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:00):
So if you do go to the courts, then now they're
trying to make now they'retrying to make it illegal for
the courts to deal with it, andthen they have to do this
arbitration, and this is whatthey how they might have blown
this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:11):
Yep.
Hold on, I want to answer thisreal quick.
Question Any info about LindaStewart in Landlord Office.
So by my recollection, sheescaped in the late 90s.
She had escaped a few timesactually.
Um, but I don't I don't have anyidea where she ended up.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:28):
I don't know that she was recaptured, like she was
recovered.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:32):
She was at least once.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:33):
Well, no, I know, but I don't know in the end if
she's No, I don't think she was.
A lot of the people that werethat dealt with Scientology
renovations or Scientologyproperty management around the
world, a lot of those peopleknew a lot of crazy stuff that
was going on between how thebuildings were being bought and
how they're being renovated andif anything.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:53):
And how the how the um what do you call it?
The um the permit to be able todo it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:59):
Exactly, certificate of occupancy.
There's a lot of occupancyScientology, if there's a
corner, they're gonna cut it.
And in the case of theseorganizations, when they were
being built, there was a lot ofpressure on these construction
people within the Scientologyorganization called the Landlord
Office.
And I think every single one ofthose people who was the head of

(01:12:22):
that uh had escaped at leastonce or twice over the years.
Every single one that was thehead of the International
Landlord Office.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:30):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:30):
Um and um so yeah, though those people I don't
know, those I just know therewas a lot of them coming and
going.
You know the craziest thing?
I wanted to mention this becausewhen we did renovations, we
renovated this place in in um inEurope, in Copenhagen, in
Denmark, and it was theheadquarters of Scientology in

(01:12:51):
in Europe.
It's called the uh AOSH EU.
Right.
So the advanced organization uhSaint Hill Europe.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:00):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:01):
And uh they had uh like hundreds and hundreds of
foreign nationals outside ofDenmark.
There were not that many Danishpeople that were even doing the
renovations.
It was a lot of Hungarians anduh, you know, a lot of uh
Eastern Europeans, like justtons of them.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:20):
And they were basically working for for food
and a room.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:24):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:25):
They weren't paying them anything.
They basically got them there sothey get three huts and a cot,
and they were doing renovations.
And they some of these guyshadn't done any of this stuff in
their life, and some of them hadbeen lifers and they've done,
you know, ten different tradesjust a little bit.
But every Friday they would tellthese guys if they met all the

(01:13:46):
targets, the constructiontargets of the week, if if uh
everybody met them, then they'dall get pizza.
And the landlord office wouldbuy like 30 pizzas for like a
hundred and fifty, two hundreddudes.
And they'd put them out, andthey would literally have to
kind of like rope off the pizzasbecause these guys were doing

(01:14:07):
all the they were working thewhole week to get a slice of
this pepperoni.
It's awful.
Because they're just eating slopduring the week, like warm water
with tomatoes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:16):
Yeah, I mean I remember when you came back from
AOSHEU and you had lost liketwenty pounds.
You were skin and bones.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:22):
Anytime the people that were there from
international management wouldeat, we would all get food
poisoning.
Every single time.
Right.
We couldn't eat there and notget food poisoning.
We found out they were gettingall the um I don't know, I
didn't know you could do this,but in Denmark, supposedly, if
you have rotten food, that justgoes in the cheaper rotten food
pile.
And you could they still sellit.

(01:14:43):
It's just this obviously is oldand it's it's not it's on the
edge of bad if not already.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:50):
They can buy that and make the food with that
because it's cheaper.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:53):
For anyone wondering, Mark is not a rotten
food guy.
He told me about that and hesaid, Yeah, I just chose to eat
apples instead.
And that's the why that's whyliterally your ribcage was like.
I only had enough money.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:04):
I only had enough money each week to buy a block
of cheese and a bag of apples.
So I'd buy like a knapsack ofapples and a block of cheese,
and I cut off a piece of cheesein the morning and eat it and
have an apple.
And I was I lived off apples andcheese.
Anyway, my whole point was theywould unleash these people from

(01:15:27):
the whatever and get the pizzas.
It was like sharks, it was likethrowing chum into the ocean.
And they did the same thing atgold, remember that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:36):
Golden Air Productions, if you got Donuts
and Pizza.
If you got all your stats done,we'd get donuts.
And if everybody did reallyawesome, we'd get pizza.
And if the and if you were justballs out, just wall to wall,
awesome, and even that donutsand pizza.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:52):
Yeah, and even that eventually got banned by David
Miscavige.
Because remember, there were afew times that he caught wind
that there was pizza, and hewould stand in the background
and be like, look at theseanimals.
Like just going for the pizza.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:05):
But that's how it is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:06):
Yeah, no, I know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:07):
And that's how all I just realized that's universal.
Because they did it in Denmark,they did it in UK, they did it
in LA.
They just would basically you'renot sleeping, you're not eating.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:20):
No.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:20):
And donuts and pizza are like that you're not getting
that.
You're not getting that on theblack market.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:25):
No.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:26):
That's cigarettes and coffee you get access to.
We're not getting access topizza and donuts.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:33):
Crazy.
Yeah.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:34):
It is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:35):
Well, I don't know how we oh, we got that from uh
from the e-meter somehow.
Golden era productions nonsense.
Um let's see if we got any otherones.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:44):
Uh oh, Jeffrey's in the house.
Jeffrey Augustine, theScientology Money Project, he
says, I did a podcast with Markon gold base and rancid tacos.
Yeah, that's we all havememories about rancid tacos.
Yeah, that's in the book, too.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:00):
Isn't that in the in the book?

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:01):
I believe so.
Bluff Foo Kitchen.
The way Mark calls him Ken whenhe goes by Rick always makes me
ch chuckle.
I bet he's sat at home seething,but not sure why.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:12):
You know, I never knew his name was Kendrick or
Rick.
Um David Miscavige always calledhim Ken Moxon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:18):
Yeah, so that's where we got it from, is from
David Miscavige.
So if that that rattles hischain, it was probably
intentional.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:25):
It was always Ken.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:26):
Yeah.
Ken, Ken, Ken, Ken Ken.
Ken or Moxon.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:29):
Yeah, Ken Moxon.
It was always Ken Moxon.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:31):
Yeah.
Or get Moxon on the phone.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:36):
Maybe he doesn't like being called that.
And that's the only reason whyDave calls him that.
That would be why.
Absolutely.
My name's Rick.
Well, I'm gonna call you fuckingKen.
So suck it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:47):
Rick, what's that short for?
Ken Drick.
Okay, good.
You're Ken.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:51):
Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:52):
Okay.
Shit, hold on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:55):
Oh, yeah, no, we covered that one for Brian.
Yeah.
It's definitely.
What's Catherine saying here?
Catherine's piping in.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:00):
Okay.
The only quote arbitrationunquote I ever heard of in my 29
years in Scientology was inwhy's between business partners.
Exactly.
That's our point.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:09):
Yeah, they never had arbitration in Scientology.
In the church ends of things.
They only had it in the businessend because that's a business
thing.
It's a arbitration is common inthe real world.
In Scientology, it's totally100% rigged in their favor.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:28):
Exactly.
The law should never be on theside of entirely biased,
prejudiced, one-sidedarbitration, even quote,
religious arbitration, unquote,especially when it was invented
specifically to block all rightsof claimants.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:44):
Yes.
Precisely the point.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:45):
Trevor Burrus That's the whole video that we're doing
here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:47):
Exactly.
No, could not agree with youmore.
I love the Zenu posters in yourThat's from Catherine's husband.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:53):
He drew that.
I guess I won it at the auction.
That was one of the auctions.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:57):
We won one of them, yep.
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:59):
Yeah.
I won.
Okay.
I, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:02):
We paid fair and square.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:03):
Yeah, I was a little I got I was being outbid by a
ton of people, like on a nonstopbasis.
It was getting a littlefrustrating.
We made some good money, but youguys got another Hyundai out of
me at least on a few of thesethings.
Jeez, Louise.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:18):
Oh, all right.
Uh yes, I want to see a video onthe e-meter.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:22):
Perfectly.
We'll do it.
I'm gonna, you're gonna, I'mtelling you guys.
Maybe I should even have aniPhone or something else to show
you.
Like here's a consumerelectronic device today, and
here's what Scientology aredoing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:41):
Yeah.
Oh yeah, we have a BlackBerrysomewhere.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:43):
Well, no, I'm saying we I got a shop full of getting
a fun.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19:46):
I got no lack of I got that part covered.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:50):
I got get I got old gadgets, I got new gadgets, and
I got gadgets I could takeapart.
True, true.
But we could show thedifference.
I definitely got to do this.
I gotta figure out the camerathing because I I might I might
have to get myself anothercamera.
Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:03):
No, you don't.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:04):
Yes, I how am I gonna show it if I don't have a
camera?

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:07):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:07):
That was me floating that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:09):
Can we please just reuse existing inventory?
Becky, big brother.
Uh yes, do an e-meter video.
She said, Have an easy bake ovento compare insides with.
Oh, that's a good thing.
100%.
Yes, unboxing everything.
I need a budget.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:21):
I need a budget.
This is a budget.
I'm doing a budget.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:24):
See what I have to put up with here, folks?

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:26):
Getting toys out of this one.
Oh my goodness.
I've got a camera coming.
What else do I need?

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:30):
You're gonna get one of our kids to video it with a
GoPro.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:34):
No, I'm gonna get an easy Oh, that's not a bad idea,
actually.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:38):
See how I just diverted, avoided a catastrophe.
Okay, good folks.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:42):
We've got the camera.
That's sorted.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:43):
But I am gonna need at least Kiddo did a really good
job filming the comedy worksthing.
Totally.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:50):
So that's that's a solution.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:52):
Well, no, I just have to hang it.
It's done.
We've you've it's all done now.
You've I've got it all workedout.
But I do need a discretionaryfund for an easy bank.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:03):
Okay.
I need an easy bank.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:05):
No, no, I need an easy bank.
They got it.
Okay.
I'm literally going to Target tobuy one right after this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:10):
All right.
You can submit your purchaseorder.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:12):
Oh sh look at this.
Boom.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:15):
Claire, will you record an audio version of your
book?
Thank you, Jacob.
Yes, I absolutely will.
I am deep in the throes of theediting phase with an amazing
person that Mike Rinder actuallyput me in contact with.
Thank you, Mike.
Um so yeah.
My goal is to send it off toprint by the end of May, and
then I will switch over torecording it myself.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:37):
Awesome.
I thank you, Jacob.
It's very generous of you.
You just contributed to the EasyBake Oven fund.
I'm already a third of the waythere, babe.
I'm gonna get there.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:51):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:52):
It's gonna it's gonna be a good investment.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:54):
Uh-huh.
All right.
And oh, and also I'll take thismoment to shamelessly plug
Claire Headley101 at Substack,is where I'm making all new
announcements about my book andsharing thoughts and so forth as
I get to the finish line.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:08):
You guys are amazing.
Look at this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:10):
Oh my gosh.
Hello from Fort Collins.
You guys are the best.
Thank you, Susan.
My gosh, Mark is really gettingtickled over this.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you.
Thanks for all your amazingwork.
Would you consider readingreacting to Debbie Cook's email?
That's a radio.
That's a really Jonah.
You got it.
We will absolutely do that.
Because I we Mark and I, I'msure Mark will agree with me.

(01:22:33):
Like I remember where I was whenthat email was sent and
everything about it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:39):
We we also are never gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:42):
Oh my god, there's a backstory to that too.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:44):
We were at a New Year's party.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:46):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:46):
In Texas.
Yes.
With our kids, shooting onfireworks.
Woo woo, Orange, Texas.
What's the other place called?
Something harbor.

SPEAKER_01 (01:22:58):
No, it's not harbor.
It's something else.
No, it is.
It begins with a B.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:02):
Where's near it's near Orange?
It's anyway, it's down SouthTexas.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:06):
Yeah.
Um right on the border ofLouisiana.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:09):
It's down there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:12):
Is that South Texas?

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:14):
Yeah.
South Texas.
South Texas.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:17):
Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:18):
I don't know where we were.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:19):
We were in Texas at a party shooting on fireworks.
And there was all it was allex-scientology people.
Yeah.
Like 20, 30 of them.
And some people who were in theScientology from when they were
little kids to some of them thatworked with El Ron Hubbard, you
name it, the full gamut.
All these folks flew from infrom all over the place.

SPEAKER_00 (01:23:37):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:37):
And we hear this email getting cooked up that
Debbie Cook is going to send.
She's in touch with somebody.
Yeah.
And they're in touch withsomebody, and they're all in
touch with a whole bunch ofsomebodies.
And they basically are like,hey, who's got their hands on
the OT8 email list?
So an email.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:56):
Well, hold on.
Let's save it for that video.

SPEAKER_03 (01:23:58):
Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23:58):
Let's do it justice and go through the whole thing
for Jonah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:01):
It's a great, it's a great story.
Anyway, my point is we've gottwo videos lined up.
We've got an e-meter unboxingvideo with a bonus easy bake
oven.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:14):
We started a whole friggin' thing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:17):
I'm buying two at this point.
I'm going to use one to makethings, and then I'm going to
take one apart.
Anyway, we're getting this on,guys.
Okay, guys.
This is a great way to do this.
We should just figure out whatvideos we're going to do in this
video for the next video.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:31):
Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:32):
Okay, guys.
Um, here we go.
Look at this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:35):
Okay, Angel Cat, more for your easy bake oven.
Oh, goodness.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:38):
Here we go.
Dr.
Dr.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:40):
Eric Kyle, some funds for the gadget budget for
your easy bake oven.
Hope you're keeping warm.
Colorado was chilly when we werethere.
So, how do you think the latestfindings will affect Valerie's
Valerie's suit againstScientology?
Exactly.
So this is Valerie Haney's caseis also in the same boat.
All these cases, any cases.
This has to come to an end.
It has to.

(01:25:00):
And that's why we will keeptalking about this from our
experience of what happened inour lawsuit and the nonsense
that it shows from Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:09):
Thank you, Dr.
X.
I appreciate it.
Very generous of you.
Yes.
Oh, you kidding me right now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:16):
Miss Freedom, easy bake oven.
You can see I told you you youthis is how I'm gonna sell these
ideas.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:23):
You're you I you're not you got no control anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:26):
Oh my goodness.
I've been written out.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:29):
I'm getting one.
They better sell it.
They better have you know what?
Walmart would have one for you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:34):
Or eBay.
eBay would have one.
eBay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:36):
I want one now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:37):
Okay.
All right.
eBay's pretty fast these days.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:41):
Oh my goodness.
Look at this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:43):
Mark, here's something towards your class
eight easy bake oven search.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:47):
Thank you, Jeff.
I appreciate it.
Jeffrey pinched.
I'm telling you guys that thiswas fun.
Yeah, we have talked about thisforever.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:57):
We have.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:57):
About doing one of these.

SPEAKER_01 (01:25:58):
I still think I should do a pinch test on you as
part of that uh.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:02):
If I get it working, we'll do that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:05):
We'll ask the ask everyone here.
Do you want a pinch test of it?

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:08):
Everybody wants you to pinch me.
Come on.
I'm just gonna say no to that.
Thank you, Jeff.
That's very generous.

SPEAKER_02 (01:26:14):
Oh my goodness.
We'll have a lot of things.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:18):
Well, there you guys have it.
Yeah.
If I can get everything togetherfor this um this easy bake bake
off, we're gonna do an e-meterbake-off.
We're gonna unbox an e-meter,and then I'm and if I I to do
the easy bake, I really need anew e-meter.
So if anybody's got uh if theirparents uh left them a bunch of
junk and they've got uh a newe-meter in it, um I would love

(01:26:42):
to have one of those becausethen I could show you what they
did.
They've had this e-meter sincethe six sixties, seventies is
kind of Mark VI, Mark VII,quantum, all those things.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:54):
And it would even be very cool to do a comparison.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:56):
That's what I'm saying.
Oh, yeah.
And to show you the technologythat they kept traditionally all
the way up until Yeah, becausethe Mark V was the old, like the
wooden one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:06):
The wooden one.
Yeah.
And then you're right, when itbecame like this.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:09):
We made those too, though.
We made those.
Yes.
Those are the cheap version ofthis.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:14):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:14):
That's kind of that's that would also blow
people's minds.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:17):
Yeah, that's a part of the part of the story there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:20):
When we restarted making the Mark Vs and the
wooden box, I'm gonna s I wouldargue that the electronics and
the circuits were upgraded fromwhat we were using on these
things.
Because it was so old.
Yep.
The designs and the schematicsand everything were so old that
I think the new uh I all I wouldwait, I would let old technical.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:44):
Um there's an easy bake in stock at the Walmart
near us.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:47):
I told you.
I know.
When these kids were little,they uh they they uh they wanted
things.
They got they got they got moretoys than we got.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:57):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:57):
The uh we know where the toys are.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:00):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:01):
Thank you, Clara.
Look at that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:03):
Well, this has been fun.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:04):
It's better than AI.
I didn't even just said I betyou they have them at Walmart.
It's right there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:10):
Thank you to our amazing team, Clara and
Catherine.
Yes.
Everybody wants the meeting.
Okay.
Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:17):
All right.
We're doing it.
That's it.
Okay.
It's on.
Okay, so remember, Silvo Singswin uh wins today on the
giveaway.
If you it tell us what you want,Silvo, uh email Claire at
blownforgood.com.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:28):
Well, this is the giveaway from Dr.
X.
I understand.
It's a Leah or Mike Bobblehead.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:33):
That's what I'm saying.
Okay.
You want a Leah one or do youwant a Mike one?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:36):
Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:37):
Um thank you to Dr.
X for donating those.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:40):
And for remembering Mike Rinder, our dear friend,
who lives in our hearts and whowe miss every day.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:45):
It's not that we don't want to uh just give away
everything.
We've done hundreds, if notthousands, of giveaways on this
channel.
But if you want us to dogiveaways when people sponsor
them, it's a little easierbecause, you know, this ain't
this ain't all for I mean, I gotexpenses.
I got to get an easy bake.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:06):
Yeah.
For sure.
We're doing this for free.
And for anyone tuning in newly,so we did the giveaway during
this stream, but we will do asecondary giveaway for the
replay crew.
So just comment on the video.
Let us know if you'reinterested, if you'd like to be
entered by commenting there.
Yeah.
And we'll let you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:24):
And if you do want me to do an e-meter video, or if
you want us to do this otherwhat was the other video we were
going to do?

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:31):
Oh, the Debbie Cook.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:32):
The Debbie Cook email.
Let us know in the commentsbecause we like to do the videos
that you guys want us to do.
We we're trying to fix up this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:40):
But that's a really good suggestion.
Thank you, Jonah.
That's uh that would be really,really good.
Because that did have a hugeimpact on scientists.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:48):
Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:48):
Yeah.
And we can even play some ofDebbie Cook's testimony.

SPEAKER_03 (01:29:52):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
That email resulted in thatlawsuit and resulting in them
paying her a ton of dough to nottell any more information about
Scientology.
Yes.
In email or otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:05):
Japan of Green Gables, thank you for asking
about Christy, Shane, and Jack.
They're doing well.
And Christy has actually startedposting newly on Mike's social
media to keep things goingthere.
So tune in there for more tocome.
Very cool.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:19):
There was you were going to make me say something
else, but I I can't remember.
Anyway, so we got a Debbie Cookemail, we got an email.
If there's other e videos youwant us to do, um, if you can
get some thumbs up, I thinkthat's how we should do it.
If if the uh the highest thumbedup comment, yeah, uh upvoted
comment will be the stuff youguys want to do.

(01:30:40):
So comment, like, subscribe,flippity flap, and clickity
clack, whatever you what there'sbuttons.
Push them.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:47):
Yep.
Mark is back in town, so we'rehere for it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:51):
Yeah, and also I do have a bit of traveling to do in
and around uh coming up.
Right.
But but as long as Claire keepsher series going, we'll try to
fill in the blanks with those.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:02):
So if you if you have to wait two or three weeks
for that, that's why.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:06):
But there's there's and for anyone watching, if
you'd like to be interviewed forthe Cult Survivor series, reach
out to me, Claire atBlownforgood.com.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:13):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:13):
There we go.
It's been a good day.
We made it to the end.
Boom.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:17):
Boom.
Oh, you're gonna do like WonderPower.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:19):
I've been watching Walking Dead.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:21):
Oh my goodness, with the TVs and the shows.
Okay, guys, until next time.
Bye.
Bye.
I gotta push Biddy uh, I gottapush Vidy.

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Scientology's Arbitration Trap - Exposed - LIVE Discussion - Secrets of Scientology #9

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Scientology's Arbitration Trap - Exposed - LIVE Discussion - Secrets of Scientology #9