Scientology's Ultimate Exit Tax w/ Amy Scobee & Mat Pesch - Secrets of Scientology #16 - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
Welcome to another episode ofBlown for Good, Scientology
Exposed.
I am joined by multiple gueststoday.
And uh I'm just gonna bring themall up right here.
Let's see what we got.
We got Claire, and we also haveMatt Pegge and Amy Scoby.
Thank you for joining us,everybody.

SPEAKER_03 (00:47):
Hey everybody.
Yay.
So good to have you both here onthis fine hot summer Sunday.
Yes, in our tropical shirts.
Yeah, we're helping.

SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
We're helping to promote the uh Walmart Shirt of
the Month uh Club.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
We um we normally when we do a live on Sunday, we
normally do it around 12 or 1p.m.
12 noon or 1 p.m.
Mountain Standard Time so thatthe European folks could come
in.
But in order to have Matt MattNamey on, we had to do it a
little later.
And um so we're glad to have youguys on.
And um today uh we're gonna betalking about when you leave

(01:29):
Scientology or you're if you'rein the C organization
specifically, and those are thefolks that signed the
billion-year contracts.
Um if you leave before yourbillion-year contract is up,
which is pretty much everybody.
So far to a one, no one has uhfulfilled their billion-year

(01:50):
contract.

SPEAKER_03 (01:50):
Nope, there's zero contracts completed.

SPEAKER_00 (01:53):
Yeah, they have a bad uh percentage of people that
are fulfilling their contracts.

SPEAKER_03 (01:57):
They do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Um but if you leave before your billion years is up,
um, Scientology has a mechanismwhere they give you a bill for
all of the on-the-job trainingthat you got and also for all of
the Scientology courses orcounseling that you received

(02:18):
while you were in the C org.
So for regular paying C orgmembers, uh re regular paying
Scientology members, people thatdon't sign the billion-year
contracts, when they do aScientology course, let's say
like the purification rundown,it's$5,000 for the purification
rundown or whatever it is.

(02:39):
I think it might even be morenow.
I don't know how much it is, butlet's just say it's$5,000, then
the public or the civilianScientologist pay them$5,000 and
then they do the course.
If you're a C org member, youbasically just sign a thing
saying that I'm a C org member.

SPEAKER_03 (02:58):
You sign a promissory note.

SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Yeah.
You sign a promissory note thatsays, hey, I'm a C org member,
so I'm good to go, and that'sthe end of that.
Now when we when Claire and Ileft, they gave us I think my
bill was like fifty-six thousanddollars or something like that.
What was it?

SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
Claire's got the bookkeeper in the house here.
Your bill was sixty-two thousandnine hundred and twenty-six
dollars.

SPEAKER_00 (03:24):
Okay, now and that's for fifteen years in the C
organization.
Yes.
And almost all of the things onthere are just required courses,
C org courses, welcome to the Corg, um, basic courses that you
have to do if you're in the Corg.
So legally, um the if the lawwere able to look at this and

(03:47):
see how legal it was or the thehow correct it is or whatever,
um, you're not allowed tocharge.
A company is not allowed tocharge an employee or somebody
who works for them foron-the-job training.
You you're supposed to providethat.
So not only are they chargingfor on-the-job training, but

(04:08):
they're also paying, they'realso charging me for
interrogations and what we'rewhat's called security security
checks, which where theyinterrogate you on the e-meter.
Um, if you guys haven't seen oure-meter videos, you should go
back and check those out.
We've got we we pulled apartsome of their old e-meters and
their new e-meters, and thoseare pretty cool.
But um but not only are theycharging me for the things that

(04:31):
are on the job training, butthey also charged me for
interrogations, which wereordered and uh basically set up
by them.
I wasn't, I didn't choose to dothat.
I was required to getinterrogated.
So we wanted to find out sothat's what happened to us.
Yeah.
And Claire's was how much wasClaire's?

(04:52):
How much was yours?

SPEAKER_03 (04:53):
Mine was$96,580.
So for the two of us, the total,which by the way, would we would
have to pay this if we were toever speak to our family again.

SPEAKER_00 (05:06):
Oh, yeah, that's one of the first steps.
Like, say we left, we escapedfrom Scientology, and then we
were like, Oh my gosh, we wereso wrong about them.
We want to go back.
Then the first thing you gottado is you gotta pay them that
money.
Yeah.
That that nothing's gonnahappen.

SPEAKER_03 (05:20):
Well, no, first you have to admit that you you were
you're a suppressive person andconfess do a public confession.

SPEAKER_05 (05:27):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (05:27):
And then pretty much immediately it's like, okay,
good, pay back all that money.
Yeah, but and then not onlythat, not only do you have to
pay for everything you did, youwould then the next step after
paying that is redo it all overagain, for which you got it, you
gotta pay again.

SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Yeah, and there's no guarantee.
I want to mention this topeople, there's no guarantee
that they're gonna let you backin.
You have to do it's they'recalled the A to E steps, and
they there's step A, B, C, D,all the way up to E.
You've got to do all thosethings.
And after you complete all ofthose things, then they get to
decide whether or not you'regonna be able to come back in or

(06:08):
not.
So we wanted to find out um thatwas our thing, and I don't
really think I've talked to thatmany other people about the
freeloader deaths on exactlywhat they got.

SPEAKER_03 (06:17):
Right.
And that's what that's what mademe want to have this
conversation with Amy and Matt,because I saw Matt, you had
commented about having yourfreeloader bills or at least
seeing them.
And I was like, oh my gosh, wegot to talk about this because I
I didn't actually realize thatyou'd seen them.
But yeah, so summing up ours, soour grand total was$159,000,

(06:40):
five uh$159,506.
There you go.
Okay, so now you tell us aboutyours.

SPEAKER_01 (06:47):
They mailed me mine.
It was they said it was apartial, and it was around what
$200,000.
Just for you, Matt.
Just for me.

SPEAKER_00 (06:55):
And now how long were you in?

SPEAKER_04 (06:57):
And it was pages and pages and pages, and it totaled
over$200,000.

SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
And how long were you in the Sea Org, Matt?
27 years.
Okay, so for 27 years, theywanted at least 200K, and that
was not even the full thing.
That was what they're saying isso far.

SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Oh, so they're like, you can go ahead and get started
paying$200,000, and we'll getback to you on what the balance
is.
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_04 (07:23):
We left with like $45.

SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
Right.
Same with us.
We had, I think by the time Igot to Kansas City, which is
where my dad lived, I was done.
I had like a few hundred bucks,and just to, you know, eat and
get some uh rent do this or geta ride or do that, it was done.
It was the my money.
I was out.

SPEAKER_03 (07:45):
I had like$12 by the time I made it to Kansas City.

unknown (07:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (07:49):
$12 left.

SPEAKER_00 (07:51):
That's it.
Total net worth 12 plus 52.

SPEAKER_04 (07:54):
You know, like we're our net worth is in our 40s and
and we're trying to start in theworld that I never lived in,
really.
I didn't I never cooked, I neverdrove, I didn't have a bank
account, I didn't know anythingabout the outside world.
I never went grocery shopping.
I mean, it's like this is allbrand new, and I'm out here with
I actually blew my money ongetting my hair done.

(08:16):
Nice.
Because I came straight out ofthe rehabilitation project for
it looking like a which isbasically a prison camp.

SPEAKER_00 (08:23):
Yeah, so you hadn't had your hair did in a long
time.

SPEAKER_04 (08:26):
Right.
So and I wasn't gonna come backto my you know family at all in
the world.
Yeah, looking like you haven'tseen me in 27 years, and yeah,
it's been going great.

SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
I've been I'm doing a I'm doing a uh a a beauty and
wellness pan uh play that was uhthat was uh written by the
cryptkeeper.

SPEAKER_03 (08:47):
Yeah, I will never forget uh one of the first times
we went out with Mark's familyto a restaurant, um and we and
we it was totally uncon uh likeunconscious, but yes, we were
sitting at this place.

SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
It was like a Marie calendars or like uh something
like that.

SPEAKER_03 (09:07):
We had plates of pasta.
That much I do remember.
He ordered we had both ordered apasta dish, and they put it down
in front of us, and like it wasit was not it's not like we were
starving in that moment.
It was like muscle memory kickedin, and we just vacuumed.

SPEAKER_00 (09:25):
Yeah, and the the best part is that when we were
done eating, our family memberswere just like sitting there,
like they hadn't even had a bitemore than a bite or two, and we
were done.
And they were like, Yeah, ohwow, guys.

SPEAKER_04 (09:40):
Like it was what happened with us too.
Like we went to a uh a buffetwith my family, you know, all
everyone, and everyone's kind offiling in.
Matt and I are like up at thebuffet.
We picked everything, we satdown, we ate it, and people were
still hanging there.

SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
Our family members just came back to the table to
get started and ordered drinksand stuff, and we had literally
finished our plates already.

SPEAKER_04 (10:06):
Yeah, that's what we're so grooved into 15-minute
meal breaks.
But you know what he did when hegot that thing?
I wish we kept it, but what hedid was this rip.
Yeah, you know, and then wewrote to him saying, never
contact us again on a piece ofyellow pad paper, you know, just
scribbled it out, mailed it backto them.

SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Yeah, we we your your announcement was we hereby
disconnect from you.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
I want to say that we had we had actually asked
them.
We said, hey, because they weresaying you got to do this and
you gotta do that, and Clairewas actually trying to make it
so we could speak with ourfamilies when we first left.
We weren't trying to cause anytrouble.
We were just like, hey, we'rewe're gonna just do our thing.
If you do if you if you're ifyou don't want to make any c

(10:55):
crazy trouble out of this, we'renot trying to do anything.
We just we just didn't want tobe there anymore.
Now we're we're out.
We don't want to have anythingto do with you.
But we want to wish our mom orour dad happy birthday or
whatever, you know.
But um so we actually got aletter from Mike Ellis, who is
the international justice chiefin in Los Angeles, which is kind

(11:18):
of silly because he has no poweror authority really.
Somebody else is writing orsaying, telling him what he's
supposed to t tell people andall that.
He's just a puppet.

SPEAKER_03 (11:28):
Yeah.
But he but he is.
So according to policy, though,that is the only person that
you're technically, per thewords of L.
Ron Hubbard, allowed to talk to.
And I always bring up, except ifyou have a lawsuit against them
accusing them of heinous crimes,then you get to talk to a fake
arbitration panel.

(11:49):
Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
But either way, he sent us a uh a letter and he
said, Hey, um, Kirsten, who wasthe external security chief um
office of special affairs, whichis Scientology's dirty tricks to
department, they were formerlycalled the Guardian's Office and
were convicted of the largestinfiltration in the United
States government in itshistory.

(12:10):
And um so Kirsten, who was thehead of that, um, had spoken to
him and then he wrote us.
Yep.
So and then we when we got him,I was liter I and that's the
craziest thing to me is I reallydidn't do anything.
I did the basic C org coursesand a whole bunch of security

(12:31):
checking.
And there's even a course, Ithink on mine it has the
ministers course listed.
That's right.
Which everyone in the C org umtotally I think it was in after
9-11 that all C org members hadto do the minister course
because David Miscavige wasworried that um they were gonna
re- uh institute the draft.

SPEAKER_03 (12:52):
Yeah, no, that I think that was even earlier than
that.
That was for the Iraq war.

SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
Could have been, whichever war there was a few
different stints whereeverybody's gotta do the
minister course.
Um and every time that thathappened, I was in one of these
areas of the organization inGolden Air Productions where you
weren't gonna be going to studyfor the next uh four or five
years.
So um so I was enrolled on it, Ithink, once or twice, where they

(13:17):
said everybody's got to go signup for the course, but I never
actually did the course.
Um and they billed me for that.
That was on there.
Yes.
And there were other things thatI was just like, what?
But either way, um Claire and Inever ever paid a penny of ours.
We never did any of these uhsteps A through E to get back in

(13:39):
good standing with them becausethey're ridiculous.
And um, it's funny becauseScientology has two ways of
basically um parting ways withyou.
If you're in the C org and youwant to leave, you have to route
out.
And if you look at the steps Athrough E and the route out
steps, they're very parallel.

(14:01):
They're you're gonna getsecurity checking where they're
gonna basically get you toeither admit or confess to a
whole bunch of crimes that youcommitted, and then you're gonna
have to denounce everything thatyou did before.
You have to do all these steps.
But basically, if you do decideto leave, they have so much dirt
and so many paper so muchpaperwork that you've signed

(14:23):
that you will never ever be ableto have any recourse once you
leave Scientology.
Well, if you if you escape fromScientology and then you want to
talk to your family, youessentially have to do those
same steps again so they can getall the dirt they need on you.
They can get you to basically bein a subservient um position to

(14:43):
them, and then they if you makeany trouble, then they've got
all this documentation andthey've got a bunch of papers
you signed that say you're acriminal and you're you're not
gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 (14:52):
It's all recorded, videoed, yes, you know, and it's
not true, too.
I mean, it's Trump doesn't youwere never an executive.

SPEAKER_00 (15:00):
Yeah, that's the that's even the best thing.
You're like, um, I was on theexecutive council of your
organization.
I was signing some of IRSdocumentations as a Yeah,
exactly.
I was signing 3,000 checks aweek worth millions and millions
of dollars.
Yeah, yet I was just a lowly SeaOrg member.

(15:20):
You're like, uh, okay.
But either way, um so but youguys didn't, you guys, yours
would have had to have been likewell, did did Amy, did you ever
even see yours?

SPEAKER_04 (15:34):
I did not get mine.
Um, it would have been prettyhefty, too.

SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
It probably would have been more than Matt's,
right?

SPEAKER_04 (15:40):
No, he did this the what's called the St.
Hill Special Briefing Course.
Oh my gosh.
I did all the administrationtraining, he did the PDC course,
which is the Philadelphia doctorcourse.

SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
Well, yeah, that's 70, that's 76 lectures.
The briefing course is like 350lectures.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:56):
And we both did up through OT seven, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (16:00):
Um, so you both knew about the space cooties the
whole time.
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:06):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Well after that point, after OT3, you knew about
space cooties.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
But I just want to say about the the freeloader
bill, like it started becausesome trainees were coming to the
ship, learning how to audit, andthen you know, provide
counseling and then going intothe field and making money off
of that rather than going backto staff.
So they were then made to justpay for the training that they
just had because they're makinga profit off of it.

(16:36):
You know, so then it warped intothis monster of stupidity of
like you can dedicate 27 yearsof your life to them and then
be, you know, handed like kickedout with one dollar and then
handed a quarter million dollarbill saying, have fun paying us
back before you can get back ingood standing or talk to any of

(16:59):
your family members.

SPEAKER_03 (17:00):
Yeah.
It morphed into complete evilcontrol and leverage, intended
to not have you have any contactwith your family, which is who
you most need contact with ifyou have a break free from that
mess.

SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
Yeah.
I it's really it's just in theend, it's it's just a cash grab.

SPEAKER_03 (17:19):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
Because I remember in Golden Era Productions, every
year, like around October,November, December, it there
would be talk of Christmasbonuses.
And it was always like, hey, theorg's gotta make a certain
amount of money in order forChristmas bonuses to happen, and
it's all it was always a thing.

(17:40):
And Golden Air Productions, theway uh over the years, it was
pretty much funded by how muchmoney was coming in from
Scientology organizations.
So a percentage of the moneythat organizations or all over
Scientology organizations allover the world, they had a
percentage of money that theyhad to pay, and it was called

(18:03):
money paid for training.
So if somebody signed up for acourse or somebody signed up for
um some kind of thing where yousit in the classroom and you're
doing Scientology training oncourses, a percentage of that
money went straight to GoldenEra so that we could produce the
technical films and the lecturesand all these things.
And so if the orgs were doingreally bad, Golden Era

(18:25):
Productions was not getting asmuch money.
And so we did sometimes therewas there was weeks and months,
and I I want to say my socialsecurity statement shows three
years where the Scientologyrecorded that they paid me zero
dollars for three yearsstraight.

SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
So I had one year up too.

SPEAKER_00 (18:44):
Yeah.
So when you when you have you'renot really making a lot of money
there, and then you're doingthis stuff, but you you're not
gonna get a Christmas bonus.
And when I say Christmas bonus,guys, I'm talking like if we're
gonna go crazy and we're like,oh my god, my mind is blown,
that's a$200 Christmas bonus.

(19:05):
Right.
Okay, like woohoo, party time,$200.
So usually it was$100, sometimesit was$50, and sometimes it was
zero.
But the thing that I rememberevery single year was the
director of income.
It was this gal named Sherry.
And Sherry would get up in frontof the crew and she would say,

(19:25):
Listen, guys, um, we need allthe help we can get.
If you know any former Sea Orgmembers or you know anybody that
has freeloader bills, we'redoing a buy now where we're
gonna basically, if they've gota$150,000 Sea Org bill, if they
pay us$50,000 right now, that itthat wipes out their whole bill

(19:48):
for$50K.
And if we can get, and sheliterally had all it all worked
out, if we can get 20 people topay off their freeloader bills,
because that money, Golden EraProductions is the one who
delivered these courses andthings to them.
So when that money comes in,it's just pure profit.
There, it's not per pa per L.
Ron Hubbard financial policy, itit's not really allocated

(20:12):
towards anything.
It's basically just free moneythat nobody was ever gonna get.
So it could it could be agreedupon between the advisory
council and the executivecouncil and the flag banking
officer and the executivedirector.
All these folks could basicallysay whatever free load or bill
money comes in, we're gonnaassign that to the crew bonuses.
And in Golden Air Productions, Ithink most of the time I was

(20:34):
there, it was over 300 Sea Orgmembers in Golden Air
Productions.
I think it even got up to likethree into the 350s at one
point.
Yep.
It was a lot.
It was the it was the largest,one of the largest um Sea Org
organizations um in the worldbesides the Flag Land Base,
Golden Air Productions.
And the PAC RPF, which was thethe biggest ever.

(20:55):
But um all the Sea Org membersthat had got uh got assigned to
the to the what's called theRehabilitation Project Force in
Los Angeles, there were so manythat were being sent there at
one time that they were like a500-plus Sea Org organization.

SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
And um and they weren't David Miscavige
mentioned several times that itwas bigger than the the
rehabilitation project force wasbigger than a St.
Hill size org.

SPEAKER_00 (21:23):
Yes.
How many people they'd assign tothat?
Anyway, so so even when I was inthe Sea Org, I was kind of like,
that's weird.
So the freeloader bill is$189,000 or whatever, and if
they get$50K, it's done.
And so you're like, this is it'sit's all about the money.

SPEAKER_04 (21:41):
There's no it's totally arbitrary.
Totally arbitrary.

unknown (21:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (21:46):
You had that for Treasury at episode, like every
year.

SPEAKER_00 (21:49):
Oh, yeah, you were in Treasury at Flag.

SPEAKER_04 (21:52):
I was collecting them.

SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
Well, one year they had a special for five thousand
dollars.
If you paid your five thousandbucks, your entire free load.
That was would be canceled, thatwas like in the early 2000s.
And the reason being is becausemanagement had asked us to
figure out how many activeScientologists read flag.
And the flag has you know makesmore money than all the

(22:13):
Scientology put together, it hasmore delivery than based on that
uh value than all theScientology combined.
And it's like the it's the thekey to the whole place.
So it's like, okay, so how manyactive Scientologists are there?
And based on they had to pay ordebit at least, I think it was
11, no, 1500 bucks over threeyears to be considered an active

(22:36):
Scientologist.
So we printed out the list andit was less than 5,000 people.

SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
That were going to the biggest Scientology church
in the world called when he'swhen we say flag guys, if you're
new to the channel, there'swe've got we've been getting a
lot of new subscribers over thepast few weeks.
Um so I just want to make surewe're not jumping ahead, but I
mean there's we've done 200videos on this channel.
We talk about this.
But in uh the sea organizationstarted in the middle of the sea

(23:03):
on L.
Ron Hubbard's boats, and whenthey transitioned from the sea
to land, they actually did thatin f it.
They did it in Daytona, and thenthey finally settled on
Clearwater in the 1970s.
If you want to go on down a reapuh rabbit hole, you can look up
uh Scientology Project Normandy,and that's where they planned to

(23:26):
take over the town ofClearwater.
This is in the 1970s, guys.
Um, they have pretty much takenover Clearwater as of 2026.
But when they moved to land,they called it the it was when
the boats were at sea, they werecalled flag, the flagship Apollo
and the flagship Athena,whatever.

(23:46):
When they moved to land, theyliterally called it the flag
land base.
And so a lot of people justrefer to it as flag or the FLB,
the flagland base, or you canjust say Clearwater.
It's all downtown Clearwater isalmost 90 percent of the
Scientology organizationbuildings are filled with sea

(24:09):
organization members that arepart of the Flagland Base.
So that's where Matt worked atMatt worked where Claire and I
worked at the internationalheadquarters, but he also worked
in Clearwater.
So you are saying that that andthat and that is the largest and
the Scientology organizationthat makes the most money of any

(24:30):
Scientology organization is thatone in Clearwater.
If the one in Clearwater in aweek makes two million dollars,
all of the rest of Scientology'sorganization don't make two
million dollars combined.
Right.
All of them combined make lessmoney than the the location in

(24:51):
Clearwater.
So you're saying when youcompiled this list of the people
that were doing the minimumamount to be considered active
Scientologists was 5,000 people.

SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
It was it was under 5,000 people.
And we thought, wow, that can'tbe.
That's impossible.
And it was checked anddouble-checked, yeah, it was
less than 5,000.
So the problem wasn't theproblem there was you had a lot
of things happening, like youhad the income range had dropped
almost in half over a few years.
You had recruitment was almostnon-existent, and Scientology
was going nowhere.

(25:24):
So the idea was to let thesepeople come back in, pay five
thousand bucks and come back injust to get some Scientologists
back in the house.

SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Oh, so it wasn't really we want the five
thousand, we want the fifteenhundred every so often for the
rest of time.

SPEAKER_03 (25:38):
To inflate the list of active Scientologists.
And when when was this that thatthis list was?

SPEAKER_01 (25:43):
It was about two thousand and one or two thousand
and two.

SPEAKER_03 (25:47):
Damn.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (25:49):
Wow.
So that's really true.

SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
We would have given them five thousand bucks to come
back in.
It was bad.
It was a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 (25:58):
This is the crazy.
Now that you say this, this iskind of wild.
Because um Tony Ortega over atthe Underground Bunker, he does
a lot of he does stories onScientology pretty much every
single day.
And when he did a story aboutall these people that were um
like involved in in the cult orgetting their uh certificates of

(26:21):
how much money they gave ortheir prizes or whatever, I
noticed that there's actually alarge amount of former Sea Org
members that are in those groupsof people doing that.
And I didn't even I didn't evenreally connect the dots, but I
want to say that there's atleast 10 or 15 people from the

(26:42):
international headquarters thatwere kicked out or escaped are
on those current lists of peoplethat are donating millions of
dollars, or they're part of afamily like the one I thought of
specifically was this guy namedDanny Baram.
Yes, and Danny Baram was WhoAmy.

SPEAKER_03 (27:02):
You remember Danny Baram and worked very closely
with him for many years.

SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
Yes, he was the deputy garbage.
That's right.
We got kicked, it was at CMO inthe city.

SPEAKER_04 (27:14):
Because he didn't clap at an award ceremony.

SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
He got yeah, oh that's right.
He didn't clap.

SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
I do not remember that.
Yes.
Yes, and he he was like a abecause he didn't get an award.
He oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Yeah, miscavige would have his staff face the
audience to see who wasn'tclapping or like appreciative of
how great Miscavige was.
Yeah.
These people would be taken intointerrogations later on.
Because he didn't clap.
Your life could change.

SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
Yeah, because you didn't clap or look right when
Miscavige was like, and DannyBaram was Danny Baram was in the
C uh C the Commodore's MessengerOrg International.
Is that where he was working?
Or okay.
So he was in one of the highestman C org management
organizations in the world.

SPEAKER_03 (28:00):
He was a WDC member for a while.
It wasn't he with me?
Yeah.
Oh that's right.

SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
No, he was when he was fresh to the base, right?
He was just and so it was acriminal poster.

SPEAKER_04 (28:13):
Which I probably did.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
But regardless, he got guess he didn't clap at
something.
He was made not the garbage guyin in in Golden Era Productions.
He was made, and this is a veryum specific thing that Miscavige
does on a mo on a he's done ituh I would say at least 30
times.
He doesn't make you the lowestguy, he makes you the deputy of

(28:37):
the lowest guy.

SPEAKER_03 (28:38):
Yeah.
Sometimes even the deputydeputy.

SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Yeah, I think it was Jeff Walker.
I think it was Jeff Walker whowhen he got um he when he was
the senior case supervisorinternational in charge of all
of Scientologists' training andcounseling at wor worldwide.
Um when he got busted from that,he was made the deputy deputy
deeper.
Not the D weeder, but the deputyof the deputy of the D-weeder.

SPEAKER_04 (29:04):
There wasn't even a deputy deeper.
I know there wasn't even aweeder.

SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
It was ridiculous that he's the deputy deputy of
two people that don't evenexist.

SPEAKER_03 (29:15):
It was about the humiliation uh and intentional
degradation of the person, likejust rubbing it in their face.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
But so Danny Baram.

SPEAKER_03 (29:25):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Um he was uh he was in SEMO International or W WDC
Wor uh Watchdog Committee.
That's the people who manage allof the sectors of Scientology.
He was in Golden Air Productionsfor a long time, and then I
think he ended up going to audioor he went he moved out of the
garb out of the estates divisionand he went to some other

(29:46):
division or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 (29:47):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (29:48):
But I the thing that I always remember about Danny is
he got into some sort ofaccident.

SPEAKER_03 (29:52):
He did?

SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
Yeah.
He got in a car accident um intown.
He had a car.

SPEAKER_03 (29:58):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
He he was already had money when he got into the
state.

SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
And I we're gonna talk about that too.

SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Yeah.
But he got into an accident, andI want to say that he got a
couple hundred thousand dollarsawarded to him in this accident
that he had.
Wow.
And um, and so he had a he hadhe had like golf cart money.
I think he even had uh he got agolf cart or something that he
was driving around the base, andeverybody's like, what the hell
this guy getting a golf course?

(30:24):
And then it got around, like, ohthis his dad's got money.
His dad, wasn't his dad Victor?
Victor Baram.

SPEAKER_03 (30:31):
Oh, Victor Baram, yeah.
Yeah, so that's what I want tosay is the Baram family is one
of the biggest UK Scientologyfamilies.
So it was Victor and Erica wereuh, and then um Mickey and um
Hanny owned like a jewelry shopin East Grinstead.

(30:53):
They are huge big OTambassadors, like very, very
active.
Alon Baram worked directly forDavid Miscavige as his
secretary.
Anyway, um so Danny isdefinitely second generation
Scientologist, possibly eventhird.
Um and yeah, like there's ElonBaram, there's Alon, there's uh

(31:17):
Danny, Mickey, Hanny.
Anyway, there's a whole slew ofthem.
But in the UK, they're one ofthe biggest, wealthiest
Scientology families.

SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
Yeah.
The the main thing I rememberabout Danny, besides the golf
cart thing and the deputywhatever garbage guy thing is
that he was married to a smokeshow, and her name was Lawrence.

SPEAKER_04 (31:40):
Yeah, that's how she would say it.
La Hans.

SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
La Hans, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 (31:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (31:45):
Anyway, but um he ended up leaving the Ant Base.

SPEAKER_03 (31:49):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (31:49):
I think he got was it offloaded, or did he got
offloaded for being like nunproductive dead wood.
Like he's there's no the Sea Orgcan find no use for him.
And and somehow Yeah, andLaurence divorced him.
Yeah, and she yeah.
But Danny's story, he get hegoes out, he must have done the

(32:12):
freeloader debt, done the ADE.
There's all these steps ofthings that they require
everybody to do.
He must have done all those, andnow he's one of these people
that Matt's talking about, wherenow he's a paying member of the
ecosystem and not a drag becausehe's in the Sea Org and
Scientology's having to supporthim.

SPEAKER_03 (32:30):
So he's given tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of
dollars to the InternationalAssociation of Scientologists.

SPEAKER_00 (32:39):
I think it's millions.

SPEAKER_03 (32:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Because he was it was like a family thing, the
Barom family.
And I looked and I'm like, oh myGod, I think that's Danny.
And I'm like, This poor Sepp'sgiving those guys all that
dough.
Yep.
Anyway, um, also Danny, um,pretty like indifferent in terms
of Scientology.
He was just like, yeah, youknow, whatever.

(33:03):
So most likely, so he could talkto the rest of that huge family.
Right and the support.

SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
And so that the rest of said family will, you know,
they don't want to rock theboats.
Yes.
And uh, you know, so theythey're gonna get him to tow the
line and you know that's true.

SPEAKER_04 (33:19):
If you got money in Scientology, if you got money,
you're golden.
It doesn't matter.
You know, you got money, you'regolden.
Just give it over.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
Yeah.
You know what's funny is that Ithink Laurence, so that's
Danny's, one of Danny's uhwives.
I don't know.
I know he's married again,obviously, because he's got a
whole new family.

SPEAKER_03 (33:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
But um I think Laurence got together with John
Stumpke.

SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
She did.
And then Catherine just said inthe case.

SPEAKER_00 (33:45):
She went, she when she was married another time, or
maybe even she got divorced, um,she ended up um having relations
with somebody else who worked inthe landlord office.

SPEAKER_03 (33:55):
Who was married to somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Yeah, and so then she left the Sea Org as well.
Um But regardless, uh I thinkwhat Matt's saying.
I think what Matt's saying, thiswas in the 2000s, you're saying,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Danny left in the probablythe early 2000s as well.
And he might very well have beenone of these people that was

(34:18):
like, and that's the crazything.
If you have a$200,000 Sea Ort uhfreeloader bill, and they say
for$5K, we're gonna wipe it out.
I mean to to somebody who'strying to get back to speaking
to their family, that's that'slike the deal of the century.
Um and and but then you have toplay their you have to play all

(34:39):
their games once you get back init.

SPEAKER_04 (34:40):
You can't I'm so glad they sent us a quarter
million dollar stupid reloadbill.
I know that sealed it rightthere.
That sealed it.
It's done, you know, it's done.
So same with us.

SPEAKER_00 (34:51):
When when I go back by the time we got it, I want to
say we left in January.
We kind of started to talk tothem back and forth a little bit
in February.

SPEAKER_03 (35:01):
I went and the person we were talking to was
busted, so we didn't hear fromthem for a couple of months.

SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:07):
Then and and then it was finally in April when so I
organized and you know managedgetting all of our belongings
back because I knew from workingin Religious Technology Center
that legally they knew and Iknew that they were required to

(35:27):
give us our belongings.
So Mark went back to LA and werented a a Penske truck.
You know, it took four monthsmainly because they wanted to
inventory everything, like witha 60-page inventory by Bankers
Box.

SPEAKER_00 (35:44):
We did a video on that as well.
If you guys want to watch it,it's pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (35:48):
So crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (35:49):
Three pages of the patrimote CDs.

SPEAKER_03 (35:51):
But but all of that but all of that to say that when
Mark picked up that truck withall of our belongings loaded
into it, it was I thinkmid-April, mid to end of April
by then.
They handed him our declares.

SPEAKER_00 (36:04):
Yes.
And our SP declares.
So we left in January.
This is now April, and they gaveme and we've been talking to him
this whole time.

SPEAKER_03 (36:16):
Oh, and by the way, they they had already told us,
they had also said, oh, guesswhat?
You asked um because they hadtold us that our declare was on
hold.

SPEAKER_00 (36:25):
Yes, the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 (36:26):
Yeah.
They failed to mention that, oh,but by the way, we already told
all your family, and that's whythey're not talking to you.
They didn't mention that part.
But either way, they had said itwas on hold.
And I will never forget the dayI was where I was.
I was sitting in our apartmentin Kansas City, and my cell
phone rings, and it's WarrenMcShane, who is the head legal

(36:51):
guy in Religious TechnologyCenter, works directly for David
Miscavige.
He says, Hey, so guess what?
We told you it's on hold.
I'm like, okay.
So you need to come back and dothe rehabilitation project for
us.

SPEAKER_00 (37:03):
And I'm like, Or you're gonna get declared.

SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
Are literally out of your mind.

SPEAKER_00 (37:08):
Yeah.
We both have jobs.
We have a lease.

SPEAKER_03 (37:11):
We have a lease.
We have oh my gosh, it was nuts.
Mark, Mark would die before hemoved to the Oh yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 (37:19):
Hell yeah.
I mean, to be fair, when Iescaped, I did end up speaking
with Claire.
This is all in my book, Blownfor Good Behind the Iron Curtain
of Scientology.
But I did speak to Claire on thephone after I escaped.
She was able to get a hold of meuh through a weird channel.
Illegally.
Yeah, we won't get a we won't goover that.

SPEAKER_03 (37:38):
But that'll be covered in my book coming back.

SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Not illegal in the real world, illegal in
Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 (37:43):
I was I broke the rules to figure out how to
contact Mark.

SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
But regardless, um, when she was talking to me,
she's like, Oh, but what if youjust come back?
I'd only been gone a few days.
And I'm like, no way, man, I'msleeping and eating and watching
movies and making tons of money.
I'm like, uh it is such acakewalk out here compared to
that place.
Like you're living, you'reliving on very hard level with

(38:11):
20 um evil bosses above you inthe video game, and they're all
attacking you full time.
When you go into the real world,it's like you you're unleashed
if you were in that place.
So I was I was coasting throughlife, and I'm and I was just
telling her, like, babe, youshould get the hell out of here,
man.
This was this was a I'm livinglike a rock star after one week.

(38:34):
Come on, get out here.

SPEAKER_03 (38:36):
But initially I was trying to, you know, I mean,
they were also uh listening tosome of the calls that we had.
But either way, I was trying toget him to come back so we could
figure out what to do, because Ididn't think that I had the
capacity physically to be ableto escape without help, which

(38:57):
did turn out to be accurate.
Either way.

SPEAKER_00 (39:01):
But but but to get back to the freeloader bills,
yeah.
They're they're not designed toget the person back into
Scientology.
They are designed for that toScientology to get a ton of
money from another source.
I mean, if you look atScientology, I I think you would
agree with this too, MattNamies, that they they maximize

(39:25):
every possible way that they canget money out of the people that
are involved in Scientology.
If you're not doing training.
Yeah.
Exactly.
They call it income sources.

SPEAKER_03 (39:36):
Yes, exactly.
Though though I would say as inaddition to yes, I agree that's
the primary reason.
But second to that, the othernext important thing that
freeloader bills do is theyleverage and control the person
to not spread not to not spreadany, you know.

(39:56):
So they won't share with theirfamily what their experiences
were.
They won't say anything criticalabout Scientology that they
they'd have to shut it down.
Yeah, I bet I bet So that's abig part of it.

SPEAKER_00 (40:09):
Yeah, I bet Danny Baram's not uh uh talking around
the Thanksgiving table about thetime that David David Miscavige
made him the deputy deputydumpster, I see.

SPEAKER_03 (40:19):
Yeah, or the time he witnessed David Miscavige
punching staff and you know, allthose other things, or the the
group confessions and all thatthat he was present for.
He's not talking about none ofthat.
Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 (40:32):
And that's the point.

SPEAKER_04 (40:33):
Could you imagine how surpr how like I know that's
what I wanted to do a blanketthe entire time?
You're constantly under theirthumb.
It's like you can't even liveyour life, you can't speak truth
about anything.

SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
I can't imagine maybe it's just me and how I've
come to be however I am, but Ican't imagine somebody
witnessing all the things thatwe witnessed and then just
pretending none of that everhappens, and then go back to the
city.

SPEAKER_04 (41:03):
Or that it's justified.

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
Or yeah, that there's any good reason that
that should be the way it is.
And then and but then go back tomy family, who has millions and
millions of dollars, andencourage them to give these
people money and then give moneymyself when I know it's like
seeing the wizard of Oz and thenbeing like, okay, checks out.
I think he's a good guy,whatever.

(41:26):
And then you're just like, uh itis what it is, you know.
Everybody's uh you know,different weight, what does it
say?
Uh different strokes fordifferent folks, man.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (41:36):
It's severe blindness, and and you know,
like it takes a bit to, I mean,to shake off like the effects
the cult has on you, but itreally shouldn't take that long,
you know.
I mean, wait, open your eyes.
What did you just experience?
It's not rational, it's notsane, you know.
Nobody in the whole world knowsthis except for you.

SPEAKER_00 (42:00):
Yeah, and also that when you're at the end base, and
even when you're at in Florida,if you're anyone, if you're
anywhere near the spending ofthe money, you know that money's
being flushed down the toilet atmad rates on a full-time basis.
Like literally, just it youDavid Miscavige is ordering

(42:24):
things to be done or somerenovation change that's not
necessary to do it.
Because he wants it done.
And you so you not only are youspending you're spending an
insane amount of money to getsomething done in an unrealistic
time, but then almost to a T,that m that will be insufficient

(42:45):
because it was rushed, that thenhe'll make you make somebody
redo it again.
So, like in his building wasbeing built, the Religious
Technology Center, there waslike$30 million of cost overruns
to do that building.
That wasn't the amount it costto do the building.
That was how much they paid forthings more than once, or to be

(43:06):
redone, or to be completelyripped out.
I remember when that buildingwas being built out.
Somehow, this is and and it iskind of crazy if you think about
it.
But David Miscavige had his ownprivate office in the building,
and attached to that buildingwere a bedroom and a full like
luxury shower and bathroom andeverything.

(43:28):
And the main high voltageelectrical panel for the
building was on the back side ofhis shower.
So, like his shower was on thisside, and there's like, you
know, 12,000 KV on the otherside.
Nobody's got any plans for you,Dave.
We're just saying that's justhow the that's just how the

(43:49):
cookie crumbled on this one.

SPEAKER_03 (43:50):
Because nothing could possibly ever go sideways
there.

SPEAKER_00 (43:54):
But as soon as he found that out, he had the
entire electrical thing redone.
And um, but it was It was just,you know, things like that.
Like I think even they go ahead,Amy.
Yeah, you said that's a goodthing.

SPEAKER_04 (44:05):
I was gonna say here's a good example where um
we're renovating Building 36,which is the manufacturing
building for Golden EraProductions.
I was on the rehabilitationproject force for one of my
4,000 times.
And um so they so we wereputting up these gigantic boards
in the hallway, organizationcharts, the watch quarter

(44:26):
station bill assignments, likeall this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (44:29):
And they're gigantic they're like 20 feet long and
about four feet high.

SPEAKER_04 (44:34):
Yep.
So we hung all of these in this,you know, hallway and stuff like
that, and they were hungperfectly.
David Miscavige comes down andhe said, I didn't approve the
walls yet.
So take down all of thesethings, patch up the holes,
which are gonna be like thisbig, and if I can detect where

(44:56):
one hole was made, then you'regoing to the RPS, RPS, RPF, or
whatever.
Or then I'm gonna take asledgehammer to the whole
building or whatever you said.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I was given that task.
So all those boards come down.
I'm so I'm you know, fixing thepatching these damn holes and um
and then painting over it andall this kind of stuff, and I'm

(45:18):
like looking that up one sideand down the other.
It took me a little bit and hecomes back in, they couldn't,
you know, he he said that it wasa pass, and then we just re-hung
them.
But like all that time, all thatmoney, all that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 (45:29):
Yeah, once he approved the walls, yeah.
But once he approved the walls,you put those, you put those
things right back where theywere because they only fit
between certain doors in certainplaces.
It wasn't like there was amillion places for these things
to go, they could only go on thewalls that they were designed to
go on.

SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
So nothing changed.
Yeah.
So nothing changed.
Nothing changed except hehadn't.
Oh my gosh, yeah, it's it'smind-boggling.

SPEAKER_04 (45:55):
We're just gonna if you're watching this, you know
that was insane.
Yeah, totally insane.

SPEAKER_00 (46:01):
The thing that kind of seals it for me, and I do go
over this in my book, is thatwhen I was in the tapes
department uh in Golden AirProductions, that's where I
first started in 1990 when I gotto the international
headquarters, is I was makingcassette tapes of L.
Ron Hubbard's lectures.
And somehow, some way, DavidMiscavige basically did the math

(46:25):
on the machines that made thecassettes.
If they were run 24 hours, howmany cassettes could they
possibly do if they were perfectand nothing got flunked and
everything ran and every houranother start was done for the
recording process?
That basically 50,000, you coulddo it.

(46:47):
If if the stars aligned andeverything was perfect and
nothing was messed up, you coulddo 50,000.
So that was our uh edict.
We had to produce 50,000cassettes in one week, every
single week.
But and they were specialcassettes that were made on TDK

(47:08):
metal tape, and it cost about adollar per lecture, just the
tape, not including the Nurelcoand the case and all the other
stuff, the packaging.
But he didn't give the sameedict to the sales department to
sell 50,000 tapes a week.
So we're cranking outthirty-five thousand, forty-five
thousand, fifty thousand,fifty-one thousand, twenty-eight

(47:29):
thousand for years.
And they're selling five sets aweek or ten sets a week, or
thirty sets a week if there's anevent.
And in the end.
Well, be even before we got totapes, they had to destroy three
hundred thousand tapes becausethey were they were uh what

(47:50):
David Miscavige considered anovert product.
L.
Ron Hubbard's voice wasn't asclear as it was supposed to be
on the lectures.
So they destroyed three hundredthousand cassettes.
Well, when we started producinginto the 30s, 40s, and 50,000
cassettes a week, we racked upmillions and millions of
cassettes that were being storedat Golden Era Productions and in

(48:12):
locations in Los Angeles and inall organizations.
Because even though theScientology wasn't selling the
lectures, Scientology Golden EraProductions enforced that every
single organization had to buy aminimum purchase amount of the
lectures.
So it would take it was 1,500worldwide, is how many sets we

(48:33):
would produce.
And then that was divided intoall the organizations.
And so this organization had tobuy 10, and this one had to buy
15, and Flag had to buy 100, andyou know, all these things.
But they weren't selling themeither.
So when the CDs, when theyswitched over to CDs, there was
literally tens of millions ofdollars of lectures.

(48:56):
They were all destroyed allaround the world.
Wow.
Yeah.
So literally, we're talking ifone cassette cost a dollar,
there was over ten.

(49:16):
I would think even more thanthat, because all the packaging
and the transcripts and thelabels and the buttons.

SPEAKER_04 (49:23):
Let alone your time.

SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
And so Scientology didn't get that money from
nowhere.
That was from the Baram familyand the this family.
So those guys, that's whatthey're paying for.
If Scientology makes a hundredmillion dollars a year.
I would say that at least thirtyto fifty million of that is

(49:47):
being wasted on just dumb stuff.
Yep.
Including building all thesebuildings they're spending
millions of dollars on that noneof nobody's going into these.
They had an organization thatwas next to the dog walk groomer
in the strip mall, and it mademore money than this$20 million
property that they're in now,and with with the staff they

(50:09):
have, because they're it's justridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 (50:11):
So that's the part and we're not even talking about
wasted money on events.

SPEAKER_00 (50:16):
Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 (50:16):
I'm dead that that's what I'm saying.
I mean, there's there's so muchwaste.

SPEAKER_01 (50:19):
How about the Lisa McPherson fiasco?
Yeah, she got she died at Flagafter Miscavige was her CS and
running all that bullcrap.
Yes, yeah, supervisor.
We spent a hundred milliondollars on that bull crap.
A hundred million dollars.
And I know because I was atreasury secretary.
So it was all flushed.

SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
A hundred million dollars because one person and
oh and and that's the Matt, youjust blew my mind.

SPEAKER_05 (50:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:45):
They spent a hundred million dollars.
Now, if you were to if you wereto do an investigation within
Scientology and there was norestrictions on who you could
light up, if you gave thatinvestigation to ten separate
sets of C org members, theywould all come to the conclusion
that this was David Miscavige'sfuck up.

(51:06):
He is the person who made thishappen.
Out of everybody involved, hewas the one who did this and he
did this, and that's whathappened to her, and then she
died.
They would all come up with theexact same result.
And so he it's not likeScientology wasted a hundred
million dollars.

SPEAKER_04 (51:24):
No, and he personal guy.
That was the flag left that wasjust the flag service or
international base,international reserves was
coughing up millions of dollarstoo.

SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
So wow It wasn't just the hundred million that
that flag paid in.
And I don't doubt it.
When Scientology is about to getburned, um they there's no like
at Golden Era Productions, Iwould have to submit what's
called a purchase order everysingle week.
Um, and it would get disapprovedevery single week um so that I

(51:59):
could get contact lenses.
And so I had been wearing a pairfor about three years that were
like a 30-day pair.
Um and so I was trying to getsome new ones because you know
when they tear, it's hard to seethrough them.
But um anyway, but meanwhile,you go over to Office of Special
Affairs and they're literallycutting checks for millions and

(52:21):
millions of dollars to theseattorneys.
And and and you know what's evenfunnier?
No one's doing a purchase orderon that.
They just tell the checks thechecks 10 million five hundred
and fifty-two thousand.
And then somebody goes, yes,sir, and writes a check.

SPEAKER_05 (52:34):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (52:35):
Nobody's writing up a uh situation, uh David
Miscavige.

SPEAKER_04 (52:41):
Glue it again.
Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 (52:43):
Yeah, so so that so that's another thing where you
go, Danny Baram I know heprobably didn't see a lot of
these things going on when hewas the deputy deputy dumpster
guy, but when he was in watchdogcommittee and CMO Int, he saw
these things going around, dowhat was being done, and he saw
the amount of wastage that therewas and the amount of millions

(53:06):
of dollars that just gets spenton nonsense.
And for him to then go back,make a deal so he could talk to
all his family, and then becomeone of these people who get
who's giving them hundreds ofthousands or millions of dollars
that knowing that's where that'swhat's happening to it.
David Miscavige is just spendingit how he wants on what he

(53:28):
wants.
There's no group of people inScientology that are like, okay,
the strategic uh plan that wehave going forward.
There's nobody doing that.
The only person who has a say ora vision is David Miscavige.
And he just tells everybody,this is what you need to do.
Period.
Absolutely.
And if it's a dumb idea and itcosts$15 million, it's gonna get

(53:52):
done because he said that's whatand they the money's just
sitting there.

SPEAKER_04 (53:56):
So there's also like the the International
Association of Scientologists,and they have requirements of
how much have to has to be spenteach year to show whatever they
have to show.
And so it'd be like, come on,quick, let's figure something
out.
You know, okay, well, we canbuild a building over here, or
we can throw some money overhere, and then millions of
dollars.

SPEAKER_00 (54:17):
I mean, that percentage is just the interest,
by the way, if you want to know.
That's right.
Just interest.
What if the if there's a$480million in the IAS's uh
accounts, whatever the interestthat they're earning on that
money for the year, that istheir budget for the year.
That's how that works.

(54:37):
So they they cannot ever allowto spend the capital, but they
are allowed to spend it mighteven be now.
There might just be so muchmoney that it's even maybe
possibly a percentage of thepercentage.
Because there's so much.

SPEAKER_03 (54:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (54:52):
That's how we would get when we when Golden Air
Productions would do the IASevents, we would be told before
months before the event, this isthe exact budget that you that
we will pay.
And any penny over that, youguys, that's out of Golden Arrow
Productions, you're paying forthat.
We're not paying.
We're not paying a penny overwhat the budget is.

SPEAKER_04 (55:11):
I mean that IRS, what a stupid idiot agency.
How does a tax uh agency sayyou're a religion or not a
religion, number one?
And then also give it tosomebody like this.

SPEAKER_00 (55:26):
It's cra well because they they put the they
put the pressure on.
They put the they put thosescrew they put the screws to the
IRS, which is also a kind ofcrazy thing.
If you know Scientology'shistory and infiltrating the
government and all this otherstuff, for them to for the IRS
to say, hey, you owe us abillion dollars in back taxes,

(55:48):
and for Scientology to say, no,not only do we not owe you a
billion dollars, but you'regonna give us the keys to the
kingdom and we'll give yousomething just to wet just to
just to call it good.

SPEAKER_01 (56:00):
I think they're because we have TIs on your top
guys following around andfinding out all the bad things
you guys have been doing.
Oh, yeah.
So it can't be a good idea.
Can you imagine irregularitiesand all that stuff?
And you want to go after us,we're going after you.
And it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
Yeah, they went after the Scientology, went
after the individual IRS agentsthemselves.
That were and not just the onesthat were doing Scientology
stuff.
All of them.
They were literally digging upthe dirt on every single IRS
employee that they couldidentify.

SPEAKER_05 (56:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (56:34):
And suing them personally.

SPEAKER_05 (56:36):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (56:37):
Law getting a lawsuit against them.
Not the IRS.

SPEAKER_01 (56:42):
It was crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (56:43):
Anyway, individual lawsuits.
And that's another thing youknow when you're there.
You know all that.
You know all this.

SPEAKER_04 (56:50):
Yeah.
And people at the very top ofthe organization can't get a
uniform that doesn't have holesin the elbows, you know, or a
second pair of shoes, or and youdon't get paid for years and
years.
While we're there just flushingmillions, flushing millions,
flushing millions, you know.
Yeah, it is kind of forcingseparation from you know,
disconnection and all this kindof stuff.

(57:11):
They're such a stupid criminalorganization.

SPEAKER_00 (57:14):
And as a Sea Org member, we get excited we're
gonna get a hundred dollarChristmas bonus.

SPEAKER_03 (57:18):
Or a Domino's pizza, or or even a box of donuts would
be like did they have that inflag too?

SPEAKER_00 (57:24):
Would they would they basically bribe the crew
with donuts and pizza in fullFlorida, Matt?

SPEAKER_01 (57:29):
Uh they would for the RPF, you know, you guys are
gonna stay up, you know, day andnight for the next month or
something like that, you know,to make furniture for the Tampa
org or whatever.
Yeah.
And but the good news is we'regonna have pizza every night.

SPEAKER_00 (57:46):
I remember at Golden Air Productions, if there was
one thing that just Sea Orgmembers just wouldn't do, even
if they were supposed to do it,they just go, like, out of all
the things that I'm supposed todo, I don't care about that one
thing.
They would say, okay, whoeverdoes that one, and then if it
was in an entire division thatdid that thing that nobody

(58:07):
wanted to do, then whoever'sdivision did that the best would
get donuts.
And there was a thing in GoldenAir Productions where every
single Golden Era Productionsstaff member was assigned to
write to an individualScientology organization
anywhere in the world.
And it was called the Org GoldOfficer.
And you're where their representyou were their representative

(58:30):
for Golden Era Productions.
Didn't matter where you worked,if you were the deputy deputy
dumpster guy or if you were thetreasury bills person, everybody
had to write like at least like10 or 15 letters a week.

SPEAKER_05 (58:42):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (58:42):
And then nobody would ever do it.
And L.
Run Hubbard is the one who saidto set all this up.
He made a whole big thing out ofit.
If p if you work in Golden EraProductions, you gotta have your
finger on the pulse of what'shappened in the Scientology
organizations.
And most of the time he'd belike, hey Bob, I haven't heard
from you for a few weeks.
Hit me back, Mark.
And then you just put that inthere.

(59:02):
So it would just be the the mostminimal amount of writing that
you could do.
But whenever an organiz uh adivision of Golden Era
Productions would be the one whowrote the most letters, they
would get donuts.
And I'm telling you, it was likedropping chum into a piranha.
You know what I'm saying?

(59:23):
Like if you were lucky, you gotone.
But some people were just, whoa.
It was like it was literallylike a feeding frenzy.
But they would do that.
I I 15 years ago in AirProductions, there was probably
a thousand things where it wasbribed with donuts or pizza.
Yeah.
Pizza.
Dominoes or donuts all day long.

SPEAKER_03 (59:44):
Yep.
Absolutely.
So I think we should do somequestions and um and wrap it up
because we were going to I didalso want to talk about our our
mutual experiences with FairGame since leaving, but that's a
whole other conversation.
So you have to say about thatfor sure.
Yes, I know.

(01:00:05):
I know.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:06):
Um I don't there's not a lot of questions, but I'm
gonna put this one in here.
Um and we'll just see what itseems.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:12):
There's a few questions.
I started okay.
So declared PTS says I startedpaying on my freeloader bill,
but then decided they were fullof it when the ethics officer
told me to do the A to E stepsfrom my PTS declared.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:24):
That means potential trouble source.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:26):
Yes.
That basically told me I wasnever getting back in.
Yep.
There you go.
Exactly.
They that they set the rules andit's never the same playbook.
Depend it depends on who theperson is, who their family is.
It depends on how close theywere to miscavige, how many
times they saw him beat peopleup, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:46):
Yeah, this one's funny.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:47):
Um uh question.
So let me get this straight.
Only people who've passed havecompleted a billion-year
contract.
Who enforces that LLO?
Yeah, I know.
I was thinking about that whenwe were talking at the beginning
about the billion yearcontracts.
There's not even one documentedcase that I know of where

(01:01:08):
someone even got credit for aprior lifetime service in the C
organization, right?
Never happened.
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:16):
Yeah, this is another great one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:19):
Uh, when you visited Scientology website 15 years
ago, there was actually contentboasting about how many CDs they
could produce per day.
It was so weird.
Like a grade school educationalfilm.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:31):
Yeah, well, do you know what?
I just you when you say that,you're right.
David Miscavige has a big thingabout how much this thing can
make when they have this newwarehouse that does all the
books and the like we can print50 million uh banners every
eight seconds.
And it's like, who wants toprint 50 million banners every
eight seconds?

(01:01:52):
I mean, dude, what are youdoing?

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:54):
Like he's just trying to be so and you got like
what 10,000 active members?

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:00):
Yeah, we need we need all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:01):
Well, they even do it at the events, they're like,
we made it clear every eightseconds of last year.
You know, and you're just likeyou're like you, but but you do
the math and you're like, dude,that's not even 1% of Los
Angeles.
Like, what are you talkingabout?
Like, you know, like the thenumbers are so disproportionate
to what you would need to do ifyou were just spending a

(01:02:26):
reasonable amount on certainthings.
It's kind of you're right, it'skind of crazy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:31):
It was a whole thing for events gather around and try
to spin how you know spin how toword it so that yeah, it's and
Mark Yeager, Mark Yeager was themaster at that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:43):
I definitely remember that.
He'd be like, we had so manysuccess stories that if you
stacked them up, it would reachto the moon.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:50):
Like it's usually and then they would show a
graphic from Earth to the moonwith success stories stacked.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:58):
And you're like everyone's clapping.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:01):
Wow.
The best part is you can do themath.
We would do the math on thoseall the time.
So it was like Eiffel Tower,Empire State Building, Statue of
Liberty.
It's like the usual suspects forus.
We'd be like, so what how manyof those did we get?
We get it and be like, is thatas high as the Statue of Liberty
if we stacked those end to end?
If they were eight and a half byfourteen?

(01:03:21):
You know, you're like doing themath at the research desk.
But if you think about it, youcouldn't show the graph.

unknown (01:03:29):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:30):
Because last year, last year it was either zero or
it was higher than the Statue ofLiberty.
So when you see those things inScientology, know that they're
dodging the reality of what itis.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:45):
And that's why I was making explosions.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:47):
Everybody sees the Empire State Building, go, yeah,
it was a real tall billion uhbuilding down in New York City.
And you go, like, yeah, but ifyou stacked the courses and did
that, it would be 85 courseswere done last year.
Not actually that much.
It's uh Well, because the way weyou would think, well, if we
stacked those courses t uh endto end, well, that's how you you

(01:04:11):
you're supposed to interpret it.
But what we're doing is we'resaying, okay, the course pack,
that's two, because it has afront and a back, and then we're
doing each page of the coursepack, and then we're saying,
well, those are two-sided.
So a course pack is 500 pages.
Yep.
And so immediately we'veincreased the factor of what

(01:04:31):
you're thinking by 500.
Because we're not just stackingone course we're not just
stacking a course pack one toone.
No, we're stacking the coursepack and the entire contents of
the course pack end to end.
So it's just a it's just a niftyway of manipulating the data so
that it looks like it went up,but it's actually it's never

(01:04:54):
been lower in the history ofscience.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:56):
Yeah, Catherine commented the income doubled.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:00):
Yeah, it went from $100 to$200.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:08):
Yeah, but it was one from five, you know, one to
five.
Well, you don't know thatbecause they don't give you the
number next to it.
It's just five X and anexplosion happened.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:18):
Boom!

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:18):
Woo, and they're on to the next thing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:21):
Anyway, it's it's that that's how the that's how
the inside millionaires, andthat's the other kind of thing,
if you think about it.
If the people that are still inScientology, for them for the
majority of them, are people whoare high net worth individuals
that are networking with otherhigh network individuals within
Scientology.

(01:05:42):
And basically they're helpingeach other make millions so that
they can stay in this networkand also give Scientology some
of that.
Yep.
Because that's how they're ableto do all.
Like Grant Cardone and BobDuggan and all these guys, when
you go to If you find a uh highnet worth Scientologist, they

(01:06:03):
know all those other highnetworks Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:06):
Exactly.
It's a small club.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:07):
And they're the ones that are being fooled by all
this tomfoolery that DavidMiscavige is up to.
Those are the smartest guys inScientology, and he they're
being bamboozled seven times ayear at these events that they
have.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:21):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:22):
I didn't I have not seen one question.
There's not one question thatstarted.

unknown (01:06:27):
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:28):
All right.
Well, then I will uh have youdone any episodes on business or
other scientol othersScientology has gone against?
Remember the Clearwater aquariumtrying to be bought out of
development by Scientology.
Yeah, that's a that's a good agood topic.
I'll add that to our list.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:47):
Yeah, the a lot of these things, it's not that easy
to cover some of these thingsthat Scientology is up to in an
hour or two video.
If you have any questions onanything that Scientology's ever
done, I guarantee you it's beencovered over at Tony Ortega and
the Underground Bunker.
He does a story every singleday.
There's not a lot of story.
I mean, he's digging up everystory there is for the most part

(01:07:11):
that's coming to him or peoplethat have stories in order to
put out that much content.
And he's been doing it at least20 years, maybe even more since
he was in Phoenix, the Phoenixuh publication that he was part
of.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:27):
Yeah, I think he said 1995 is when he started.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:30):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:31):
Anyway, yeah, there's a lot.
But yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:33):
You can deep dive on those, find out, and you can
also just Google, just get onyour Google.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:38):
Yep, here's a question.
Can you clarify the 5,000 numberof FLAG?
Was that Sea Org members at FLAGor number of public living in
Clearwater or number of publicdoing upper level classes in
Clearwater?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:50):
It was number of Scientologists worldwide.
Any Scientologists that did any,you know, given uh that much
money or debiting that muchmoney, like 1,500 bucks over
three years.
It was public.
Like it was simple.
It was like these were from allover the world that's come to
flag.
You know, from all any way youlooked at it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:11):
Yeah, it wasn't C or that number does not include C
or the Captain.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:17):
Wow.
Yep, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:18):
That tracks.
I bet over the past few years,I've sort of settled in this
number, which is like betweenlike 10 and 20,000 of
Scientologists worldwide,active, consider themselves a
Scientologist, not necessarilygiving Scientology money or
doing things, but considerthemselves like, yeah, I'm a
Scientologist.

(01:08:39):
If you if you really put me toit, I'm a Scientologist.
There's not more than 20,000 ofthose people in the world that
are doing that.
So um, and then it varies withthe how many C org members.
There's about 5,000 Sea Orgmembers.
There was about 5,000 Sea Orgmembers worldwide of every
single C organization, it wasn'tdefinitely not more than 5,000.

(01:09:02):
And probably now it's moreprobably closer to like 2,500
between Flag and PAC and thebase.
Because the other bases are inlike 20 people, 30 people here
and there.
It's not a lot.

unknown (01:09:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:13):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:14):
Maybe UK, it's not just not that many.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:16):
No, ma max UK, I don't know.
Maybe 50.
Yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:20):
Anyway, um, so yeah, those are the figure that Matt
was talking about, those arepeople that are given money or
spending money at Flag over athree-year period international.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:32):
That's right.
Yep.
And as far as number of staff, Imean, in 1985, Flag crew
celebrated hitting 200 staff.
When I left in 2005, they didn'thave 200 staff.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:43):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:44):
Yeah.
This is a great question, too.
This is a kind of a funny one.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:47):
Question.
Is it true that you cannot joinScientology in Clearwater?

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:52):
It is true.
It is true.
Yeah.
Because the way the Scientologytraining and counseling is
worked up is you start at maybea mission or getting a test on
the street on an e-meter.
Yep.
And then you somehow do anintroductory course.
And you can do the introductorycourse at the mission, or you
can do the introductory courseat an organization, Scientology
organization.
But once you do that, you onlyget to a certain level at that

(01:10:16):
organization.
And then you have to go to anadvanced organization.
And then the advancedorganization is where you can
find out about Xenu and the BodyThetans.
And uh new merch, their new tourmerch is on the uh click down on
the products there, and you canget a Xenu and the uh Body
Thetans 2026 World Tour uhshirt.
Um so you find out about theXenu and the Body Thetans, and

(01:10:39):
then when you get to a certainlevel of OT levels, then you
have to go to Florida,Clearwater.
And so most of the people,that's a good point, most of the
people that would be part ofthat 5,000 number are advanced
level Scientologists.
They're not the beginnerScientologists, they're the ones
that have stayed in Scientologylong enough to get to this

(01:11:02):
higher level in Scientology todo to do training or counseling.
So if you're in Clearwater andyou want to get into
Scientology, you have to go toTampa and you have to go to the
or Largo.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:15):
I think there's a mission or something like that
in Largo.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:18):
Is Largo close to Clearwater?

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:19):
Yes, it is.
Yeah, it's like the next townover.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:22):
Okay, so maybe there's a mission in Largo.
But even if you went to thatmission in Largo and did
everything they could do, youstill end up at Tampa before you
get to Clearwater.
So no matter what, you'd have togo to Largo or Tampa for years
and do things for years beforeyou would get to the level where
you would be even allowed to gohang out with these uh the

(01:11:44):
people that are at Florida doingthese courses, they have very,
very few body thetans left.
They have been they've beenevicting body thetans for years
and years.
If you get some newbie fromLargo, he could have 10 million
body patents on him.
You don't want him anywhere nearthat place.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:59):
Oh God.
Okay, here's a good one.
Half question shout out.
Miss Mike Rinder's voice andstories.
Yes, we all do.
Yeah.
Who do you wish would speak outwho was or is still in?
I I have a good answer to this,and then I'd love to hear you
guys.
My two, Angie Blankenship andTommy Davis.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:18):
Okay.
Yeah.
I would just like anybody tospeak.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:21):
Well, no, but I mean, those people have things
that need to be reported to lawenforcement, need to be.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:28):
Shelley Miscavige.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:29):
For sure.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:30):
Uh David Miscavige.
I can list all kinds of people.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:33):
I okay.
I was reading it differently.
Not I was reading it.
People who've got out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:38):
Oh.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:38):
Who um but either way, I see your your your point.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:41):
I would like everybody who's left to tell
what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:44):
Anyone who's witnessed Scientology's abuse
and criminal activity.
Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:48):
Like, like Greg Hughes, for example.
Yes.
How does how do they Ron Norton?
I mean, they saw what I saw.
And how are they just like,doo-doo-doo?
Everything's freaking normal.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:00):
It just pisses me off so much.
You know, like I feel likehaving a conversation with them
and say, you know, like, wakeup.
What are you supporting?

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:09):
But then he won't have access to that net network
of Scientologists that havemoney that all know who he is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:16):
Greed, greed, but I'm saying Scientology together.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:19):
Yep.
I'm saying it's not greed andcowardice.
It's not too hard to figure outwhy he did that.
He wanted to speak to the kidsand his wife.
And he still wanted to talk tome.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:29):
Me too, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:30):
Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:30):
You and me both.
I want to see this one.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:32):
What's this one about?

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:33):
Okay, yes.
Scientology bought the spaghettiwarehouse in Ybor, Tampa, is a
Scientology noodle factory now.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:42):
I think that last part was a joke.
I don't think they really makethey really make uh body fate
and noodles there.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:50):
It's a Scientology noodle factory.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:52):
Space cootie.
That's the cigar.
That's the one we did that.
We when we were still there,that opened.

SPEAKER_03 (01:13:58):
Yes, it did.
Oh, it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:00):
Yeah, I worked on that for a while.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:02):
It was basically again.
It was a big deal that was madeout of this thing.
It's just a small little officebuilding, like a small little
spot.
It's not like the the in Wybor.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:15):
That's who the center is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:18):
Yeah, but it's just like a two-story office center.
The organization, no, they got aa a big building there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:23):
I know the org, but the one that was made that was
like the the noodle thing orwhatever.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:29):
Yeah, it's it's pretty small.
Yeah, but it's a lot of people.
You're supposed to just testpeople and route them over to
the main org.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:34):
It was a restaurant before.
So it was not like it was asprawling metropolis for
Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:40):
But somebody said it was a huge two-story building
that was supposed to just takein all the new people that got
routed to it.
I went there maybe six monthsafter it got opened.
Yeah.
And I said, there was nobody inthis building.
It was huge.
Two stories went on for like, Idon't know, and there's nobody
there.
Nobody.
And I I talked to the personthat worked there and I said,
Has anybody ever done a coursein this building?

(01:15:01):
And she said, No, the onlythings we ever did in this
building was we gave some freehow to speak English to some of
the locals that weren't evenScientologists.
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
Oh my goodness.

unknown (01:15:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:17):
Wow.
Crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:19):
You got any more?

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:20):
All right.
No, we're good.
Do you want to do the giveaway?
Yes.
Let's see.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:24):
I might have to add Matt Namy into this thing.
Here we go.
See if I can do that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:30):
Yay.
There we go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:32):
Okay, so I've got to go to that screen.
And that screen.
Sorry guys, I didn't I didn'tplan for this.
I I was there we go.
It's another question.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:44):
Any questions we didn't cover in this
conversation that you would likeus to cover later with Matt
Namie, put it in the comments.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:50):
Yeah, or just if even if you just want us to
cover it.
We don't always have the luxuryof having a we do not.

SPEAKER_03 (01:15:55):
We're very grateful to you both for coming on today.
Thank you.
We like to do a giveaway.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:01):
We like to do a giveaway at the end of the
video, and anyone who made acomment at all during the video
is entered in to win thisgiveaway.
And this is the button righthere that I'm going to press.

SPEAKER_05 (01:16:11):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:12):
And there this is a an a software that's offered by
StreamYard.
I have no control over who itpicks, and it's completely
random.
So, Kim Fleming, you are thelucky winner.
Congratulations, Kim.
Send an email at to Claire atBlown for Good, and she will
send you a link to is it a Davydolling?

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:32):
No, just send me an email with your address, and you
will be the new owner of a fakeNavy Davy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:39):
There you go.
Amazing.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:42):
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:42):
Um, that was good, guys.
We appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:45):
Yes, thank you both so, so much.
It's always wonderful to seeyour faces and hear your input,
comments, stories, etc.
Always a great time.
We appreciate you both.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:55):
Oh, here we go.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:16:56):
Thank you for having us both.
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:58):
Yes.
Matt, Mamie, please come backsoon.
Yes.
Yes.
Everybody loves you guys.
And like I said, you haveamazing perspective and
important voices.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:08):
So thank you.
Okay, guys, that's the end.
We'll put up the uh people whogive shout-outs uh from where
they're from.
We'll put that up during theend.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:18):
Perfect.
We'll see you next time.
Till next time, guys.
Bye.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:22):
Thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu, Xenu is myhomeboy and BFG branded mouse
pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts ofother stuff in there that helps
us to bring you new content on aregular basis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book, Blown for Good Behind

(01:17:45):
the Iron Curtain of Scientologyin hardback, Kindle, and Audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast, and you can get that on
Apple, Spotify, or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you

(01:18:06):
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

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Scientology's Ultimate Exit Tax w/ Amy Scobee & Mat Pesch - Secrets of Scientology #16

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Scientology's Ultimate Exit Tax w/ Amy Scobee & Mat Pesch - Secrets of Scientology #16