What Does Independence Mean After Control - Secrets of Scientology #15

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July 4th is loud, messy, joyful, and full of little traditions most people barely think about. That’s exactly why it hits so hard to realize we didn’t celebrate it at all while we were in the Scientology Sea Org. For us, it was just another workday, sometimes with a strange twist like being told to wear civilian clothes so the public wouldn’t suspect we were still on the clock. When your life is built around compliance and optics, even a holiday about independence becomes invisible.

We dig into what that kind of control does to your sense of time, your body, and your expectations. We talk about noticing fireworks only in passing on a late-night walk to the bus, the way leadership framed holidays as “pagan,” and how the outside world was painted as dangerous while, in reality, people were often kinder than anything we experienced inside. We also get personal about what freedom actually feels like after you leave a high control group: the shock of having choices at a grocery store, the long recovery from chronic sleep deprivation, and the awkward guilt that can show up when you try to rest.

From there, we move into the good stuff: first July 4th memories after escaping, building big family gatherings we never had, raising kids with normal weekends, and creating a neighborhood block party tradition that still feels surreal in the best way. We also answer audience questions touching on Sea Org pay, “civilian clothes,” religious visas, passports, and what it can take for someone to realize leaving is even an option.

If this conversation helps you see freedom differently, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:25):
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
Welcome to another episode ofBlown for Good Scientology
Exposed.
I'm Mark Headley, and I amjoined by my lovely wife,
Claire.
Here she is.

SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
Yay, yay.
Good to see everybody.
Thanks for joining us this fineSunday, July 5th.
We hope everyone had a safe andwonderful July 4th celebration.

SPEAKER_03 (00:46):
Yeah, here in America.

SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Here in America.
America.

SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Yeah, we had a we had a uh we have like a block
party every year at our house.
So we had like probably like atleast fifty people showed up.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Yes.
It's always a very full day offestivities that has become
quite the tradition.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07):
Yeah.
And we had uh we and we we weknew we weren't gonna probably
be able to do any fireworks, sowe celebrated pretty hard
throughout the whole dayinstead.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
We made up for it.
We made up for no fireworks withuh lots of burgers and hot dogs.
Mark was the grill master, I wasthe party organizer with lots of
help from our neighbors, soyeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31):
It was awesome.
It was all good.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34):
Um we did um we did a podcast.
We'll put up a thing that sayswhere to go to the I guess you
have to get a link.
We'll put it in the descriptionif people didn't see it.
But we did a podcast uh withanother channel.
Again, we went we went just todo one video and then I think
they ended up turning it intotwo because we were there for
like seven hours.

SPEAKER_01 (01:55):
We were it was a long day with Julian Dory.
And yeah, we have that in theslides to to talk about too.
So perfect.
Yeah, it was a it was it wasit's always I I find it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:09):
No, not that one.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
This one hang in, hang, hang, hang, give us grace
today, folks.
We're tired.
Yes, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 (02:17):
Um we'll put a link in the video description, but
yes, it's uh somebody asking usquestions we wouldn't normally
ask ourselves.
So uh we like to do those, andwe like to it just gets us to
you know, another group ofpeople that watch another
content creator.

SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Yeah, Trevanon says only seven hours, yeah, compared
to the what was that, 12 hourson Mormon stories?

unknown (02:39):
That was a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Um and we're already thinking about doing because we
were we in in part one and parttwo with Julian, we were talking
about our entire story inScientology.
But there's so much that hashappened in the past 21 years
since getting out that is muchof it even crazier in many ways.

SPEAKER_03 (03:04):
So Yeah, and then but but then besides that, we
wanted to take today to umanswer people's questions and
and speci uh especially inrelation to the Independence
Day.

SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Yes, exactly.
We figured we'll do a relativelyshort episode today, but talking
about just, you know, July 4th,because we never celebrated July
4th in the Sea Organization.
It wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_03 (03:31):
Yeah, is that what's this?
The next slide.
Did July 4th mean anything toyou while you were in the Sea
Org, or was it just another workday?
It was literally another workday.
I when when Claire asked me, Isaid, oh no, remember when we
used to play Tucker War?
And she goes, No, no, no, thatwas on Sea Org Day.

SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
Yes, not July 4th.

SPEAKER_03 (03:48):
And uh Sea Org Day happens in August.

SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
I think it's August 11th or 12th.

SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (03:54):
Something it's a good sign we can't remember
anymore.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (03:56):
Well, I mean we can, but it wasn't a really a
set-in-stone holiday every year.
No.
Some years there just wouldn'tbe a Sea Org Day.
And Sea Org Day was just a uh aday where Sea Org members got
off, but you would mostlyparticipate in team building
activities during your day off.
So we were doing tuga-war andpotato sack races and stuff like

(04:20):
that.
You couldn't just be like, seeya, I'm out of here, I'll see
you tomorrow.
You had to you had to likeparticipate.

SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Yeah, you had to follow the Sea Org day schedule.

SPEAKER_03 (04:28):
Yeah, on your day off.

SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
But um Now we're going to do team games.

SPEAKER_03 (04:34):
Yeah, but when you when you s when you said, oh no,
mem what I don't can't rememberwhat we did for Fourth of July,
it's like, oh no, we did uh wedid Tugel War.
You're like, no, that was SeaOrg Day, and I was like, oh
yeah, you're right.
And then I thought the onlything that I can think of that
was different on the Fourth ofJuly was that we would maybe
have hot dogs or burgers thatday for lunch.

SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
Maybe.
I don't even remember that.
The only thing I remember beingdifferent is that we would wear
civilian clothing instead ofuniform.

SPEAKER_03 (05:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
So just that way people driving by seeing us at
it.
I mean, it's so ridiculous inhindsight.
Like we're all at work justwearing normal clothes, so
that's totally normal.

SPEAKER_03 (05:16):
Yeah, but you know what's that's right.
You know what that is true.
Most of the time our our dresscode was based on what people
driving by would see.

SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Right.
And like as if they could evensee from the road.
Well, you know, we're alldressed differently.
I guess it seems ridiculous inhigh school.

SPEAKER_03 (05:38):
It's like we got to do this because otherwise people
will think we're working on July4th.
And we're like, we are workingon July 4th.

SPEAKER_01 (05:46):
Exactly.
I know that's my point.
I'm like, oh, because they'regonna go, oh good.
Well, at least they're wearingnormal clothes, so that means
they're they can must not beworking.
It's just ridiculous anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (05:57):
It's true.
When they drive by and they'relike, God, those guys are
they're not ever gonna peoplethat don't know, like you'd only
have to be a regular who drivesby to know, oh, they're in a
different clothing.
Everybody else is just like,they're wearing clothes.

SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
They're working.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (06:12):
There's they're they're not gonna think there's
200 of them walking in the samedirection at the same time for a
meal.

SPEAKER_03 (06:18):
So they weren't watching a TV show somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
Right.
Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_03 (06:22):
So yeah, I don't I think.
You can put in the comments ifyou're a SEO member or you are a
staff member and you were in anorg.
What do they do do in aScientology organization out in
the middle of Kiacuck?
What do uh Susie Sue and BobbyBob Billy Bob get up to on the
4th of July?
I I think in Los Angeles, theLos Angeles organizations, the

(06:45):
big blue building called thecomplex in Los Angeles, I think
they would do like a summer ofevents thing that would happen
because it would be all thevideos that they shot in June on
the cruise ship, the Free Winds.

SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (06:58):
They would show those like once every night or
once every week.
They'd show one night of the,you know, six or seven nights
that happened on the free winds.

SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (07:07):
And they would call it the summer of events.
And I think that would start onJuly 4th.
The first week of those eventswould happen.
And they'd put out, you know,some potato salad and some
celery.

SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Something fancy.

SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Some carrots, some of those little baby carrots.
They put that those out on uh inHollywood.
Um okay, what's the next onehere?

SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Uh let's see.
How is this the one?
Yeah.
How, if at all, did the Sea Orgacknowledge Independence Day?
Were there ever celebrations,meals, or time off?
So yes, we've kind of coveredthis.
But yeah, same thing.

SPEAKER_03 (07:42):
I don't think there was there was no.
I mean, to be to be honest, theymight have also changed the
tablecloths in the galley.

SPEAKER_01 (07:53):
I don't think so.
They were always those umburgundy like linoleum or
whatever it's like plasticcovered, uh easy to wipe off
tablecloths for mica.
Was it no, not for mica?

SPEAKER_03 (08:08):
Oh, you mean the plastic ones?

SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (08:10):
Oh, the tablecloths, not the tabletops.

SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
Right.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (08:14):
That's what I'm saying.
I might they might put some ofsome red, white, and blue things
of those out.

SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
I don't remember that at all.

SPEAKER_03 (08:21):
I'm trying to think.
I can't think of really anythingbesides the hamburger or the hot
dog.

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Yeah, I just I mean, yeah, if you think about it, so
Memorial Day, July 4th, LaborDay, um all of those.
I I specifically rememberShelley Miscavige saying, those
are pagan holidays.
Why, yeah.
Why are you even why is everyoneeven wearing civilian clothing?

(08:46):
This is you guys are offpurpose.
And it was like, okay, I kind ofthought you guys are the ones
that issued that order, butwhatever.

SPEAKER_03 (08:55):
Okay, let's do the next one here.

SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Okay.
What do you remember most aboutworking on holidays like July
4th?
Yeah, they did not because itwas not even a a thing, like
yes, sometimes we would wear uhcivilian clothing for most of
those, I think.
But other than that, itliterally did not register
because it was just another day.

SPEAKER_03 (09:17):
Yeah, I remember one time exactly now that I'm
thinking about it.
Because w I used to work in themanufacturing building.
And you have at night, you haveto walk from the manufacturing
building all the way to theother side of the property where
the buses were by the by theestates, garage, whatever it
was.

SPEAKER_00 (09:34):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (09:35):
And we came outside and it was like 11 30 or right
before the eleven forty-five busat night, and we saw fireworks.

SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 (09:44):
Yeah, for in the town.

SPEAKER_01 (09:45):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 (09:46):
And then that's when we went, oh, it must be July 4th
today.
Because we saw the fireworks uhuh in town going off.
And we're like, oh yeah, it's4th of July.

unknown (09:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (09:58):
That's what they do on 4th of July in the outside
world.

SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
Yeah.
Um okay, here.
Let me just pull up thiscomment.

SPEAKER_03 (10:04):
Because what it's not religious.

SPEAKER_01 (10:07):
Yeah, exactly.
No, it's not religious at all.

SPEAKER_02 (10:10):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
Um there's nothing.
The only um religious part is tothe outside people to say, yeah,
it's a religion.

SPEAKER_03 (10:20):
Yeah, you're not in when you're in there, no one's
no one's doing religious stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
No.

SPEAKER_03 (10:26):
You're doing Scientology policy.
The only the reason they twisteverything is so they don't get
in trouble.
That's why.
It's not there's to inside, it'snot you're not doing your
religion.
You're just doing whateverHover's said to do.

SPEAKER_00 (10:41):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (10:42):
Okay.
Were did you ever get to watchfireworks?
That's what I said.
We saw sometimes if we sawfireworks in the near to nearby
town uh on your way somewhere,you could be like, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 (10:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (10:52):
It was never a big deal.
It was never something we werewaiting to we just happened to
see them and go.

SPEAKER_00 (10:59):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (11:02):
Okay, looking back, what feels most surreal now
about speaking on a holidaydedicated to freedom in such a
controlled environment?
Yeah, that's true.
I never would have even putthose two together in a million
years.
Yeah on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
Yeah.
No.
Now uh being on the outside, Ilove holiday weekends.
Oh yeah.
When it's a three or four-dayweekend, it's like woo-hoo, yay.

SPEAKER_03 (11:26):
Can confirm.

SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Yeah, and we love we love um the celeb the tradition
that we built up with ourneighbors.
Our kids love it.
They've grown up.
The the all the kids on ourstreet love it.
Um, in fact, we often have them,they'll stop by the front door
and be like, is there gonna be ablock party today?

(11:49):
Like, yes, there is, and they'llbe like, Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (11:52):
Yeah, that is a big that happens every Friday pretty
much.

SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (11:56):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
What was your very first July 4th after escaping
Scientology?
Like, I totally remember this.

SPEAKER_04 (12:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
Because you were shooting me with um fireworks at
at your uncle's house.
We so we were in um Missouri andMark's uncle lives on like
massive amounts of farmland.
And so we were doing fireworksout there, and I can't remember
what you were trying to get mewith, but I remember being

(12:23):
terrified.

SPEAKER_03 (12:24):
I think it was just those little snappy things.

SPEAKER_01 (12:26):
Yeah, okay.
That's worth being terrifiedabout.
I was like, stop trying to throwthings at me.

SPEAKER_03 (12:33):
I'm gonna say we've probably we've either had, we've
either gone to a July 4th partyor we've held a July 4th party
for every single July 4th sincewe've been gone.

SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Yes.
We've never not celebrated.

SPEAKER_03 (12:45):
Yeah, we always go do we do something somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (12:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Yes.
What surprised you most abouthow Americans celebrate
Independence Day.
Yeah.
Um, I have two answers to that.
Number one is that being that Iwas born in England, moving to
the US when I was 13, I waslike, wow, this is a way better
celebration than the UKequivalent, which is Guy Fawkes

(13:14):
Day, November 5th.
Um I was like, this is a farmore uplifting celebration.
America.

SPEAKER_03 (13:23):
Shoot off some fire fireworks into the sky.

SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
Yes.
Uh I will say though that bothJuly 4th and Thanksgiving
especially, I was really shockedat how much food there is at at
celebrations like this.
Oh, yeah.
A lot of food.

SPEAKER_03 (13:41):
Yeah, and that's true.
Because when we did when we didparties, we it was uh uh in the
Scientology at the headquarters,it was always just whatever the
food they had.
And then maybe sometimes there'dbe some like party type food,
like cheese and crackers orsodas or it's very unimpressive

(14:03):
party food.
But it would just be like, oh,this is a party.
There's some sodas and somecrackers and some cheese here.

SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
Oh, there's something special happening.
There's not just watered-downlemonade.

SPEAKER_03 (14:14):
Yeah.
Gosh.
I haven't thought about some ofthis stuff in forever.

SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Uh yes.
Did you struggle to simply relaxand enjoy without a day or enjoy
having a day off without feelingguilty?
Yes.
We've and sure.
For sure.
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Yeah, we're way past that.
It's been twenty I mean, it'sbeen twenty years now.

SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (14:36):
Twenty-one years almost, or even even already
twenty-one years.

SPEAKER_01 (14:39):
Yes.
So now we embrace it thoroughly.

SPEAKER_03 (14:43):
And what's crazy is that when you we see something
or somebody goes to one of theseplaces and they get a video of
some of the Sea World membersthere and we recognize them, we
think, oh my God, they've beenthere for tw an additional
twenty years getting up the busywork like for nothing.
There's no payoff.
They're gonna get no, they'vedone those films that we spent,

(15:06):
you know, 10 years working on.
They've spent 20 years redoingthem a few times.
It's like, oh my God, they'vethey've just been running in
place this whole time.
Yeah.
For 20 more years.

SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
I know.
It's that there there'sdefinitely a part of it that
that's that's depressing.
Um What normal?

SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
Oh, like opening presents.

SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Yeah, what normal holiday traditions had you never
experienced before leaving?

SPEAKER_03 (15:32):
Aaron Ross Powell, like sitting around the tree and
opening presents?

SPEAKER_01 (15:35):
Yeah.
I mean we we would openpresents, but not we wouldn't
sit around the tree.

SPEAKER_03 (15:40):
It would be like would you get me, would I get
you?
If if we had if we had gotteneach other something.

SPEAKER_01 (15:47):
Yeah, we would I mean we wouldn't even get a
Christmas tree.

SPEAKER_03 (15:49):
Aaron Ross Powell No, but I'm that's what I'm
saying.
We wouldn't even get giftssometimes.
Right.
We'd just be like, I'm broke,you're broke.
Happy birthday, Merry Christmas.
Claire's birthday is rightaround Christmas.
So it's like two she's getting atwo for for sure.
There's not if I'm getting agift for her for her birthday,
which very rarely happened.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (16:10):
And if and if I'm getting you a gift for
Christmas, which rarely everhappened, you're getting one.
Yeah.
You're not getting two.

SPEAKER_01 (16:18):
Yeah, and that that is something that we absolutely
have embraced is celebratingevery single thing we possibly
can.

SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
That's true.

SPEAKER_01 (16:28):
When it happens on the day of like Valentine's Day,
you know, let's go for dinnerfor a Valentine's dinner or
Mother's Day or Father's Day, oryou know, going on a vacation
was a foreign concept.

SPEAKER_03 (16:44):
Completely.
Like going on a holiday orleaving somewhere for the
weekend.
That never would happen.
Yeah.
Ever.
And even when I was little, myfamily wasn't my family I we I
lived at a, you know, my mom anddad were divorced.
So it was like there weren't alot of I'm trying to think.
Well, I think when my mom hadthis one boyfriend who had a

(17:05):
sailboat, one time we sailed theCatal Catalina over the weekend
type of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 (17:10):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (17:10):
And even that was like, what the what the hell are
we doing?

SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
This is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 (17:16):
We're gonna we're gonna leave on a Friday and come
back on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
Yes.
Wow.
Yeah.
So our kids definitely arehaving a very different
childhood than what we had forsure.
Uh the only time on many levels.

SPEAKER_03 (17:29):
The only time I remembered going on a vacation
was with somebody else's family.
It was never my family doing thevacation.
I was on I was with anotherfamily, like sucking on their
vacation.

SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
Yeah, we did do a three-week vacation from UK to
America.

SPEAKER_03 (17:49):
After we left.

SPEAKER_01 (17:50):
No, no, I'm talking about when I was ten.

SPEAKER_03 (17:52):
Oh.

SPEAKER_01 (17:52):
So after my Yeah, when I was ten.

SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
And we went to Disneyland and with my little
sister at the time.
She was uh one, I think.
And um the main purpose of thatvacation was so that my stepdad
could find find a job and figureout what he was gonna do to make
money to pay off his Oh beforeyou moved there.

SPEAKER_03 (18:16):
Yes.
Like maybe suss out what thewhat the situation what the
sitch is there.

SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
Yes, exactly.
What the options were.

SPEAKER_03 (18:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (18:23):
But we did go to Disneyland, that was one.

SPEAKER_03 (18:25):
What normal holiday traditions had you never
experienced before leaving?
Yeah, I think we answered that.

SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, we did.

SPEAKER_03 (18:31):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (18:32):
What simple July 4th traditions did you come to
appreciate most?
Barbecues, fireworks, familygatherings, or something else?
Absolutely, to me, familygatherings is the big one
because like well We went forfor example, when we escaped in
January 2005, I had never metyour entire family.

SPEAKER_03 (18:55):
Only you'd only met my dad.

SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
Right.
That's that was it.
So and your dad has four, threesiblings.
Three siblings.

SPEAKER_03 (19:04):
Yeah, he has three sisters.
Yep.
And all of his sisters havemultiple children.
So I have a a lot of cousins andsecond cousins and a lot.
Like in the fifty or overcategory of connected relatives.

SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Yes.
So I remember in August of 2005.
So this was, you know, withinthe first year of getting out.

SPEAKER_03 (19:26):
And to be fair, we also go to a lot of gatherings
with my mom's side of thefamily.
Yes.
That she does not attend, but wedo.

SPEAKER_00 (19:35):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (19:35):
And there's even more cousins and second cousins
on her side that we see on amuch more regular basis than
most of the time over the yearsthan she does, because we go to
the weddings and we go to thefamily reunion and we go to all
those, and she doesn'tnecessarily come to those.
Especially if we're there.
It's like sort of it's like awhich is more evil that she

(20:02):
doesn't go to a family gatheringor that she's in pr close
proximity with us.
But um yeah, we and we do do alot of we do a uh big Fourth of
July party we do.
We'd usually do a bigThanksgiving every single year
because we would go and do thatwith my we would participate in

(20:22):
my my cousins Thanksgivingcelebration that they would be
inviting all the other cousinsto.
Yes.
So we'd go and we'd all do that.
And we did that every singleyear.
And then we did cr we startdoing Christmas every single
year.

SPEAKER_01 (20:35):
Yeah, and so in August the of 2005, like I was
saying, within the first year ofleaving, your your dad's side of
the family had a massive familyreunion, and we had never been
to one of those.

SPEAKER_03 (20:48):
Yes.
And well, I had in like 1988.

SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Right.
Yeah.
And I just remember how nicethey were, how accepting they
were.
And at the end, what becausethis was before we lived in
Colorado.
So we traveled to Colorado, andthis was probably the first time
that I was like, wow, Coloradois a beautiful place.
There's all these amazingpeople, it's so nice here.

SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
Most importantly, there's no Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 (21:15):
Yeah.
You know what's funny is that Idon't know if you've seen
anything on YouTube where theWorld Cup is going on and it's
being hosted here in the UnitedStates.
And all these people are goingto all these little small towns
and just and everybody's sowelcoming and so friendly.
That's exactly how it is whenyou leave the Sea Org.

SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (21:35):
They tell you that everybody outside is evil and
they're they're either drugaddicts or they're sex workers
or they're they're all that iswhat everybody outside
Scientology is.
And then you go and you meetsomebody and they're like, Oh,
what are you looking for?
Oh, I know my brother Sam, hehas a thing, and you you just
like they're 100% the oppositeof what they bill them as these

(21:57):
evil, horrible people that don'tknow anything.
Anything about Scientology.
And then you're like, everybodyout here is ten times nicer than
you guys when you're at yournicest.

SPEAKER_01 (22:08):
Yes.
In fact, the second job, so forthe first six weeks, I was
working as a waitress at at alocal pizza restaurant.
And then I got a job as anoffice manager for this lady
that does equine did equine andfarm insurance.

SPEAKER_02 (22:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:25):
I mean, talk about like seven uh I mean so bizarre
to make a million thingsdifferent than what you mean.
Being in the hole and having toescape to certain filling pizza
orders and then like doingpaperwork in an office, but she
was like just an incredibly niceperson, so much so that she is

(22:46):
our oldest son's godmother.

SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yeah.
I mean, it was it everythingabout it was like, wow, this is
not what we expected at all.

SPEAKER_03 (22:55):
And she was so nice that it was weird to us how nice
she was.
Yes.
Like, why is she so nice?
And why and then we meetsomebody else and then we
they're really, really nice.
And then we kept meeting allthese people, why is everybody
being so nice?
It's weird.
Like what's what's up?
What's up?
That's how it was to when we gotto California, we found out

(23:17):
where all the the not nicepeople were.
There that's where they werethat we noticed.
But um but I remember when wemoved from California and we
moved to Colorado, and I walkedinto a Home Depot, and the and
he in California, if you're atHome Depot, I used to be a
contractor.
I used to build a lot of stuff,and you go in there and you're

(23:38):
looking for something you can'tfind it, you can't find no
employees either.
They they just run from thecustomers.
Anyway, in Colorado, it's theexact opposite.
You walk in the store and you'reaccosted by every other
employer.
Like, hey, can I help you findanything?
And then just like, hey, dude,take it easy.
Maybe buy me a drink first.
You know, like, whoa, back off alittle bit there.

SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
Remember the first time we went to Costco in
Colorado, and we were like, whatis going on?
Oh, they're trying to box up ourgroceries.

SPEAKER_03 (24:06):
Yeah, they don't let they don't make you that was the
other thing here.
In California, the personchecking out your groceries is
not putting anything in any kindof bags or carts for you.
That's like you're you're that'syour job in California.
That's 100%.
So when we got here and they'relike putting stuff in the cart,
you're just like, uh okay.

(24:29):
I guess they do that here ontheir end.

SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
We were like, is this guy trying to rob us or
what's the deal?
And we're like, oh no, he workshere and he's this is what he
does.
This is his gig.

SPEAKER_03 (24:40):
I just when I was watching YouTube and I saw some
of these videos, they just havejust different people from
different cultures coming overhere and trying barbecue or you
know, just going, uh, this isamazing.

SPEAKER_02 (24:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
Um that is how leaving the Sea Org is when you
go outside.
And even it's the same thing ifyou're in an even in Europe.
Even in Europe, people on thestreet are nicer to you than
they they are in Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (25:03):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
Was there anything about ordinary family holidays
that felt unexpectedly emotionalafter you escaped?
Um for me, that is likeattending anything that our kids
do.
I just cannot stop crying.

SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
I know it's really kind of crazy when it was like,
oh, uh, we would say, oh, theda-da-da-da is doing then.
They go, Oh, when is this firstgame?
And you're just like, uh, nextTuesday, and they're like, oh,
we'll come.
You know, and you're just likeokay.
Yeah.
I can't, okay.
I see how that can be.

SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
And we always we also did that for all your
cousins' kids.

SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
Whatever they had something, even if they when we
were in California and they werecoming to California to play
some big tournament orsomething, we would drive down
to La Jolla or you know,wherever it was to go go to the
one one or few other games orwhatever.
But yeah.
But um Yeah, you kind of like Iwant to say in it's just really

(26:03):
hard from the Sea Org point ofview.
But I we didn't have that reallywe didn't really do that kind of
stuff when with my own familybefore I was in the Sea Org.
So it was just kind of likewe're just here doing our thing.
We don't go anywhere.
Right.
And my dad would say, Oh,there's gonna be this.
We should go, and then it wouldalways be we just didn't have
enough money, or if if he couldswing it, we would drive there

(26:27):
in his car.
So we would just drive his carfrom California to Kansas City
for the week and just do thatand then come back.

SPEAKER_00 (26:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
But um I remember not I think I was thir thirteen,
twelve or thirteen, thirteenbefore I ever got on a plane
before I ever flew on a planeanywhere.

SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
And you reminded me too, like the it was so painful
to try and take time off in theSea Org.
Um, like do you remember a c sothere's two memories that came
to my mind.
Number one, um, your dad wouldalways tell us when he was in
California, and like one time,the only way we could get time

(27:08):
off, we didn't even really gettime off.
We just took our sleep time anddrove to visit him, and we got
there at like four o'clock inthe morning, Port Bernie.
Like thinking back on it now, Iknow it's so cringy.

SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
We're like, we can't see you during the daytime,
right?
But we could meet you at a Denisand Denny's in the middle of the
desert at three or four a.m.
And we would go, we would havedinner with him literally at
four a.m.
Yes.
Like a Denny's or whatever,whatever restaurant, Marie
Calendar's.
And then we'd be like, okay,nice to see you.

(27:42):
And then we would drive back andgo to sleep for an hour, and
then get up and go back to work.
And you'd just be like And andeven that, you're right.
We some folks would know, likemaybe our close workers would
know, hey, I'm gonna go try dothis, but we didn't do it with
approval.
We would have probably nevergotten approval to go drive and

(28:04):
have uh dinner with my dad atyou know, three.

SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Four o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 (28:08):
That's not gonna happen.
That's even like even see evento propose that in what's called
uh it's called completed staffwork.
That is the official form thatL.
Ron Hubbard deemed that youneeded to get approved before
doing something that's like noton the norm.
Yes.
But if even writing that andsubmitting that, you'd you're

(28:29):
like, oh no, I'm gonna get introuble for even asking to do
this.

SPEAKER_01 (28:34):
Right.
Yeah.
The format for completed staffwork is situation.
What's the situation?
Well, the situation is I my mydad is in town and I would like
to take two hours to go havedinner with him.
Data.
I will have my post covered byBilly Bob while I'm gone and
da-da-da-da.
Solution approve that I go havedinner with my dad.

SPEAKER_03 (28:55):
So during my sleep time.

SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
Right, exactly.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 (28:58):
So I don't waste a one minute of post time.

SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
It's exhausting, even thinking about.
But the other example that yourem this reminded me of is when
your dad got married in LasVegas.

SPEAKER_04 (29:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
And you went and your sister Stephanie went, but
my completed staff work wasdisapproved.

SPEAKER_03 (29:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:18):
And I was not allowed to go.

SPEAKER_03 (29:20):
And even on that one, uh mine was sort of like on
the teetering on the yes or no.
Like it wasn't really approved,but they knew that I did it.

SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
You'd I think some people had approved it, but it
hadn't been signed off by thefinal person.

SPEAKER_03 (29:40):
I said it was approved.
It's like not by the finalperson.
Like, well, oh well, I'm gone.
I'll be back in two days.
Suck it.
Didn't you get called backearly?
I did.
I I remember I I particularlygot in a ton of trouble on that
one because there was somethinggoing on, and of course, Dave
Miscavige came down and askedsome questions or something

(30:03):
happened, and it was like theone person who knows ain't here,
and that's not good because thatmeans no one's gonna be
answering.

SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
Speaking of which, it strikes me, even just having
this conversation, how much wewere like ships passing in the
night.

SPEAKER_04 (30:18):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
Like we never talked about anything post-related.

SPEAKER_04 (30:22):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
Never in a work related.

SPEAKER_03 (30:25):
It was just always like it was basically when are
you gonna come home?
Yeah.
Are you gonna come home?

SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
Do you want something from Jack in the Box?
Or Jack in the Crack, you usedto call it.

SPEAKER_03 (30:36):
And I don't know, that was and did you get paid?
Because I didn't get paid, and Ineed some dough.

SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (30:44):
I need some money.

SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Yep, that was about it.
Are are you still restricted tothe base?

SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
That would be a common that was really m that
was most asked of me.

SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (30:54):
For many years I was restricted to the base.
If you added up, you know, sixmonths here, five months here,
two months there, one year here,where I just wasn't allowed to
go home.
I had to sleep under my desk orsleep up above a hallway or so
much fun.

SPEAKER_01 (31:09):
So fun, fun, fun.

SPEAKER_03 (31:11):
Next one.

SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
How did your understanding of freedom change
after leaving Scientology?
Oh, completely um I mean,there's layers to that.
Freedom to speak out, freedom toshare our experiences, freedom
to have children, freedom to dowhatever job we want on whatever
schedule we set.

SPEAKER_03 (31:32):
Freedom to do anything.
Anything.
Yeah.
It's weird when you think that'swhy when I think of those guys
still there, I'm thinking, youguys have no idea what it's like
to just do whatever you want.
Right.
You know not have to answer toanybody about anything and not
waste your time on something sosilly as what they're doing over

(31:53):
there.

SPEAKER_01 (31:53):
Yes.
So do you remember the movie TheHurt Locker with um Jeremy
Renner?
So at the end of that movie, asI remember it, it's been year I
saw it when it first came out,but at the end of that movie, I
think there's a scene where hewalks into a grocery store and
it's like the way it it portraysthe overwhelm of like all these

(32:15):
choices to me, that is sosimilar, has so many parallels
to the experience of a Sea Recmember.
Like the first time you go to agrocery store and you, you know,
obviously when you first getout, I mean, we didn't have all
the money in the world by anystretch of the imagination, but
even having$40 to spend at agrocery store and just being

(32:36):
able to get whatever cereal youwant, or whatever, you know, or
even just the joy of like uhremember the first few times I I
I was you know figuring out, oh,what are we gonna have for
dinner?
And then I would make like fishand chips and be like, oh, we're
gonna have brownies for dessert,and be like, oh my gosh, the
like like sensory overload ofall this food and choice.

SPEAKER_03 (33:01):
Basically, for twenty or for fifteen years, we
ate a menu that was the cheapestmenu you could cook for a
thousand people at a time.
It was those were the meals wewere eating.
The standard fare spaghetti, youknow, hot dogs, hamburgers,
chicken, fried chicken.

(33:22):
We had so much chicken, right?
Chicken chicken fried rice,fried chicken, chicken sandwich,
whatever, chicken, chicken,chicken, chicken, chicken.
Um and that was it.
That's all we just that's that'swhat we ate.
There was not a lot of varietyof like, oh, you're having some
crazy dish.
The even the fried rice waslike, if there were if they

(33:44):
added some vegetables to it, itwas like woo-hoo.

SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
It's like, oh, I have two peas in my serving of
fried rice.

SPEAKER_04 (33:51):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
Oh, goodness.
What freedoms do most peopletake for granted that felt
extraordinary to you afterleaving?

SPEAKER_03 (33:58):
Yeah, I just think at anything you can do where
you're not being told what todo, or even how how to sleep,
when to sleep, where to sleep.
It was it was always a strugglethat if you were if you could
get seven hours of sleep, thatwas sort of like That was
luxury.
That was like the holy grail ofa night of sleep.

SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
And most often the only time you'd get seven hours
is if you have to get a securitychecked.

SPEAKER_03 (34:25):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (34:26):
Interrogated the next day.

SPEAKER_04 (34:27):
We want you to go to bed on time tonight so we can
interrogate you tomorrow.
Lovely.

SPEAKER_00 (34:35):
So your engagement.
Right.

SPEAKER_04 (34:37):
Sleep good tonight.
Sweet dreams.
Sweet dreams, Bucko.
You're getting interrogatedtomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 (34:44):
But it's funny that because of that, like um it was
an a built-in negativeassociation with getting sleep.
I hadn't even thought aboutthat.

SPEAKER_03 (34:53):
Um I just remember sleep being like the most
valuable commodity in existence.
Yes.
Because I thought it was aluxury You were because it was
so used to to four or fivehours.

SPEAKER_01 (35:05):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (35:06):
And four or five hours for just years and years
and years.

SPEAKER_01 (35:09):
Yeah.
It starts to get like uh Therewere there was a after Marty
escaped and I got in a lot oftrouble, that's when I so for
six months I was restricted tothe property.
I was getting like zero to twohours sleep a night.
I had my dining privilegesrevoked.
That's when I was living onprotein bars and lost like tons

(35:32):
of weight.
Uh nothing like an enforceddiet.
Um But like anytime I would getto sleep, it was like the only
reprieve, the only mental likeshutoff.

SPEAKER_03 (35:46):
It was like uh like w a lot of times if David
Miscavige would be in Florida,then he wouldn't be there at the
international base, andeverything would kind of go like
there would be like a likeeverybody take a break for a
second.
He's not here.
And if he left like on aThursday, it would be like if I
go to s if I go to time go tobed on time on Friday night, I

(36:11):
could get up like right beforethe bus leaves, and I could
probably get like six and a halfhours of sleep.
Seven and a maybe seven, maybe,maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
I remember one time um I had been working like I
think I hadn't slept in sevendays straight.

SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
And I finally got to go home, and it was right b when
I was changing between gold andmoving into religious technology
center.

SPEAKER_03 (36:38):
Yeah.
So I went home at you went homeon the gold schedule, but you
came in on the No, I went homeat 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 (36:44):
Yeah.
You were restricted to theproperty, so you weren't there.

SPEAKER_04 (36:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (36:49):
I I fell asleep, and because like because I was in
this in-between zone, nobodyknew where you were.

SPEAKER_03 (36:56):
Nobody knew exactly what I was supposed to do.
One org thought you were at theother org, and that org thought
you were at that.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (37:01):
And I distinctly remember.
So again, I got home at 4 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:07):
At 6 p.m.
the next day.

SPEAKER_04 (37:10):
Is when you woke up.

SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
Gil Llewellyn was banging at my door because he
was the security watch guy.

SPEAKER_04 (37:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:16):
And he was like, Yeah, somebody's asking where
you are and what's the deal.
And I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 (37:24):
And then you're like, oh, I'm coming in.
I'm just gonna go back to thenext one.

SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
Yeah, I'm getting on the next bus.
Yeah, it's all good.
I was like, holy moly.

SPEAKER_03 (37:33):
That's awesome.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
I way overslept.

SPEAKER_03 (37:35):
I c I can remember that sometimes that would happen
on the shoe crew because wewould go out of town all the
time, or we'd go to Nortonstudios and we would be away
from the property.

SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (37:47):
And so they were like, oh, are they in LA or are
they here?
And that is when there manypeople did kind of sleep s slip
out of their GTFO because uhsomebody thought they were in
LA, but then somebody thoughtthey were at the base, so then
you're like, oh, I don't knowwhere he is.
Like, oh, he's long gone, that'swhere he is.

SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
Yeah, he he got a heck of a start.
All right.
Did we miss a question there?
No, I just how has raising yourchildren with normal holidays
been healing for you?
Oh gosh, yes, so on so manylevels.
Sometimes, you know, especiallyas our kids have become
teenagers and we've hitchallenges, it's har you know,
we obviously are not raising ourkids remotely how we were

(38:30):
raised.
But also, sometimes it's like,well, you guys have it, you ha
have no idea how good you haveit.

SPEAKER_03 (38:39):
Oh, yeah, no.
When they're getting likeanything that is normal, kind of
um having friends over and goingout and taking them here, taking
them there, you're just like,yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (38:52):
This is like I was I was talking with Leah about
that, and she brought up a goodpoint, I thought, which was that
like that's not their fault thatthey have it good, that they
don't know how good they haveit.

SPEAKER_03 (39:03):
I know, but literally, even our guys
compared to her, her daughter,it's a whole world of difference
between those two levels ofinsanity.

SPEAKER_04 (39:15):
Holy moly, that girl's got Leah wrapped around
her finger.
Let's go to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
She's such a sweetheart, though.

SPEAKER_04 (39:21):
Shout out.

SPEAKER_01 (39:23):
We love you, Sophia.
What's something your kidsexperience every July 4th that
you never could have imaginedwhen you were in the Sea Org?
Oh, I mean, the whole thing, thewhole block party that we did
yesterday, this is our seventhyear in a row.
We had done some before that, soit's not like it's only the
seventh time, but butconsecutively since um 2019, I

(39:49):
guess, or 2020, we've we've donethis giant block party, and we
get we brent a water slide and abounce house, and we grill all
day long.
We clear out our our entiregarage and set up like all these
tables.
We do potluck, people bring allkinds of goodies.

SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
Yeah, it's a pretty like bl blowout, you know,
party.
And the kids love it becausethey invite all their friends.
Yes.
And then they get to hang out,and then there's all the
neighborhood friends and kids,and so it's a big and there's
always new faces every year.

SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
There's new people.
We're like, who's this person?
Like, oh hi.
I I'm people there yesterday andnever did meet.
And they're like, Oh, um, youknow, who do you know here?
I'm like, well, this is ourhouse.
Yeah.
Welcome.
Yeah.
We know us.

SPEAKER_03 (40:36):
Yes.
So that's fun.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:39):
Yes, awesome.
Did escaping change how youthink about patriotism or
Independence Day itself?
Absolutely, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (40:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:46):
I I have much greater appreciation for just
every aspect of it, and evenjust having the freedom to
celebrate that and yeah, all ofthat.
If someone in the Sea Org todaysays, we don't really need
holidays, what would you say tothem?
No, the interesting thing is noone in the Sea Org actually says

(41:06):
that.
Well, when other than ShellyMiscavige saying that they're
pagan holidays.

SPEAKER_03 (41:12):
When I went to their there's a video on the uh on the
interwebs of me going to thebase and with a Danish film crew
and with this guy named RobertDam.

SPEAKER_00 (41:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (41:22):
And when I was talking to, they're screaming
and yelling, I'm showingpictures of the kids and us at
like Disneyland, at DisneyWorld, and here's this, and I'm
just showing us on vacations.
And I was like, I can just dowhat I want when I want.
And one of them said, We dowhatever we want whenever we
want.
And I was like, Really?

(41:43):
Really?
Is that how it is?
You guys just gonna take avacation next week?
Sure.

SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:49):
But it was like one of those things where they're
like telling themselves, we'redoing what we want.
It's like, sure you are.
Sure, you want to work untilmidnight every night on some
dumb thing that's gonna getthrown in the garbage by David
Miscavige the second he seesthat is the m that is the
craziest thing.
Is the a lot of these peoplethat are there are staying up

(42:09):
all night to do something that'sjust gonna be rejected.
Just that the chances of itbeing rejected or not even seen
are 99 percent out of out of ahundred percent is chances.
It's a complete waste ofeverybody's time.
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
Right.
It has absolutely zero impact onanybody.

SPEAKER_03 (42:29):
I literally cannot think of anything that we did in
that 15 years that has uhamounted to anything in in uh in
the world outside ofScientology.
And I go, Yeah, it's justridiculous.
All the things we made have beenreplaced, all the things we
produced have been thrown awayand not allowed to use anymore,
and you have to use a new thing.
It's just like everything was atotal waste.

(42:50):
And when you're there, it's thisis the thing that's the
funniest.
When you're there, you'reirreplaceable.
Yep.
But after you go, no one everreplaces you.
It's like the no then it doesn'thappen.
It and it's like and thenwhatever you did is no longer
being done.
Yeah.
And it makes no difference toanything.
Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
So we were there, you know, 15 years, basically,
right?
So we've been out 21 years.
And now, like, I think about theprojects you've finished or you
know, the the clients I workwith on accounting and the the
work that we do, and then ourvolunteer work.

SPEAKER_02 (43:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:26):
Even down to like, okay, of course, it's incredibly
meaningful to us every singletime we help a person get out
and start over.
It's like amazing.
That's volunteer work that we dofor free on this outside of our
regular day jobs.

SPEAKER_03 (43:39):
That we don't have to do.

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (43:41):
We never had to do it.
And to be fair, we were doing itway before there was an
aftermath foundation.
We were doing it.
We had done it for yearsourselves.

SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (43:51):
We just not formally.
We it was just the thing we did,and everybody else who was out
knew that, and they'd sendpeople to us and we'd help them
out.

SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
The underground.
Railroad or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 (44:01):
It wasn't even a s a formal thing in any way.
It was just oh, this person gotout.
Ooh, what do they know how todo?
Oh, they could work with thesepeople.
We'll call those people up.
Hey, can this guy work for you?
Yes.
Okay, great.
It was just like that's how itwent.
Okay.
Next one.

SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
What does freedom mean to you personally, not
politically, but personally?

SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
I think we pretty much covered that.

SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
We've covered that well, yes.

SPEAKER_03 (44:28):
Come on.
Who wrote these questions?
Interwebs, comments?

SPEAKER_01 (44:32):
If you could ever go back and speak to your Sea Org
selves on July 4th, what wouldyou say?
GTFO.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
What was your firstindependence?
Or first major holiday likeafter leaving Scientology?
What surprised you most?
Oh my gosh.
I think that first one was justlike a three having three days

(44:56):
off was like, wow, this isincredible.

SPEAKER_03 (45:02):
I know.
And also the fact that we wouldsometimes we'd plan, oh, we're
gonna do this and we're notgonna work, and we're gonna that
we're just gonna do all thisother stuff.
And you even doing that was kindof like, oh, it's kind of nice
not to work for a few days andjust take off and do something
else.

SPEAKER_01 (45:20):
Or another one that it r this reminded me of, it
wasn't specifically July 4th,but you had gone back to LA.

SPEAKER_03 (45:26):
Oh, I just wanted to see.
Oh, sorry, there's anothercomment.

SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Yeah.
Um to LA and took a job.
And even just having thefreedom, like remember, I flew
out to visit you for a weekend.

SPEAKER_03 (45:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
And we, you know, we just didn't have a lot of
people.
Oh, when I was working therebefore before I moved back.

SPEAKER_03 (45:46):
Yes.
Um but yeah, just having thatability to just fly and go spend
the weekend with you and youknow, but I'm saying that's like
a it's just I I really wish thethe people that were in wouldn't
think it's a trick.
Like, oh, you could just do likethey think uh I'm trying to

(46:08):
trick them into leaving.
It's like no, it's not a it'snot a trick.
Yeah.
It's you really will could justbe have your life.
Yeah.
And you wouldn't uh have toanswer to these crazy people
doing this crazy stuff.
And it's sort of like you when Iwas showing them the pictures of
the kids and everything, I waslike pleading, like, guys, come

(46:29):
on, you don't this is ridiculouswhat's going on here.
And then when we found out fromRoanne L Ron Hubbard's
granddaughter, that she leftafter that incident happened,
and one of the guys that was outthere on the highway was like, I
should have left when Mark left.
Yep.
I should have left when Markleft.

SPEAKER_01 (46:49):
Yeah, but you know what?
And that that's for if if any ofthose people ever watch this
video, I would say it's nevertoo late.
It's never too late.
It's never too late.

SPEAKER_03 (47:01):
But the your main regret will be how long you
waited.
I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
Absolutely.
Um other Scientologists are not.
Oh, and sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 (47:10):
Oh, this is the person who asked that question.

SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
Um are we supposed to come to the No, this is a a
uh but hold on, there's oneother thing.
Even just the freedom of havinga vehicle and being able to
drive wherever you want to.
Well, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 (47:25):
It's so impossible to it's it's almost impossible
to communicate how free you arebecause you have zero freedom in
that place.
Yes.
Like there's no freedoms.
So the fact that you have somany when you leave, it's not
even you even if you were in acountry that had didn't have as
much freedom as we have in theUnited States, you're still a

(47:47):
million times freer than insidethe C organization.
It's kind of insanely crazy howlittle freedom you have in
there.
And you don't and you neverthink about it until you realize
how much freedom we have.

SPEAKER_01 (48:01):
Yeah, and even the things that we did think were
freedoms, in retrospect, theyweren't freedoms at all.
Like we're going, oh, well, onSunday we got two hours to do
our laundry.

SPEAKER_04 (48:11):
We get to do whatever we want.

SPEAKER_01 (48:13):
Do you even hear yourself talking right now?
Like two hours on Sunday to doyour laundry.
You're free to do your laundry?
Yeah.
Really?

SPEAKER_04 (48:20):
Like, I don't have anyone a baby.

SPEAKER_01 (48:23):
I don't have anything to do with laundry a
freedom currently.
In my current life, I do notconsider that a freedom.
Okay.
Um done with that.
We're done with that.
We're moving on.
We hope we answered all yourfreedom-related questions.
This is the first time.

SPEAKER_04 (48:38):
If you were playing the BFG Freedom Game and you
took a drink every time we saidfreedom, you're gone right now.

SPEAKER_01 (48:45):
Happy July 4th.
Uh, Comedy for a Cause.
So we are very happy to leteveryone know that March 17th,
2027, which by the way, foranyone not paying attention, is
St.
Patrick's Day.
Uh, we will be having our secondannual Comedy for a Cause event
at Comedy Works South in Denver.

(49:07):
Yay!

SPEAKER_03 (49:09):
Yay! We have such a great one.
Yes, we want to make this aregular occurrence.
We've already locked up thedate, so we've got it, we can do
a lot more planning for thisone, and we can do a lot more
ticket sales, and we're gonnahave it's gonna be fun, and
we're gonna have some specialguests again.
Um and we were trying to getsome really, really good ones.

SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (49:31):
So, and because we're doing it, oh my god, what
is going on with this device?

SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
I silenced all of my devices.

SPEAKER_03 (49:42):
Um anyway, we're gonna have a blast.
And um, yeah, we want to makesure everybody knows now.

SPEAKER_01 (49:50):
Yes.
So we can oh, and that remindsme too.
This past week, uh the latestnewsletter from the Michael J.
Render Aftermath Foundation wassent out.
So if you haven't seen that,it's on the website, I believe,
and you can also sign up on thewebsite for future newsletters.
Yes.
But um, there's lots ofvolunteer opportunities for this

(50:11):
event and everything else, sowe're excited.

SPEAKER_03 (50:13):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (50:14):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (50:16):
And there's new Zenu and the Bonnie Pages.

SPEAKER_01 (50:19):
This is the Clara is the best.

SPEAKER_03 (50:21):
This is the 2026 tour collection.
Not to be confused with the 2025collection.
Yes.
Which I think I'm not sure.
I think we should some peoplelike to go back and buy previous
years tour concert uh t-shirts.
Yeah.
So I think we'll leave the 20 uh25 ones up there.

(50:42):
And um and we might be able todo like some seasonal stuff.
I know somebody really, reallyliked those ugly Christmas uh uh
sweaters we had.

SPEAKER_01 (50:50):
Yes, the body thitons.

SPEAKER_03 (50:52):
Yeah, so we might reactivate those things.
We we we didn't get a lot ofsales on those, but somebody uh
requested to put them back.
So we'll see if we can put themback.
Um okay, is that the end?
I think that's the end.
Holy made it to the end.

SPEAKER_01 (51:07):
We did, yay! Um so we've got to do a giveaway.

SPEAKER_03 (51:13):
Okay, so let's do the question and comments to
give anybody if you if you wantto enter our today's giveaway
where we're gonna have.
Oh, he's just oh, he's greedy.
We're gonna give this thegiveaway, right?
Oh no, she's changing it allaround now.

SPEAKER_01 (51:33):
He knows how to read my thought.

SPEAKER_03 (51:35):
What are we doing here, Harry?

SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
We're gonna do one of the new shirts.
The the Z doo and the the one ofthe new merch shirts.
So if you comment any comment,you can pick something from the
2026 um World Tour Collection.

SPEAKER_03 (51:50):
Yes, exactly.
Now, any comment will do.
You can just say, yo, fromConnecticut.
That's a comment.
That'll work.

SPEAKER_01 (51:57):
Or you can even say comment.

SPEAKER_03 (51:58):
You can say comment.
Some people do that.
That that's repeating.

SPEAKER_01 (52:02):
If you say comment five times, that does not change
your odds of winning.
Yeah, it's an automatic thing.
One comment.

SPEAKER_03 (52:08):
Automatic thing.
Okay.
So if you got some starredcomments here, here.

SPEAKER_01 (52:11):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (52:12):
Questions.

SPEAKER_01 (52:14):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (52:14):
There you go.

SPEAKER_01 (52:15):
Okay, question.
If you had to wear normalclothes sometimes so the
outsiders wouldn't besuspicious, were you forced to
use your fifty dollars a week tobuy modern clothes if you joined
the Sea Org in the 70s?
Japan of Green Gables.
So we've talked about thisbefore.
No.
I mean, I I did use my fiftydollars to buy clothes.
So my clothes weren't from the1970s.

SPEAKER_03 (52:38):
I understand, but you didn't have 40 outfits to
pick out a July 4th outfit.
Oh no.
You had to very, very like mostpeople, I'm gonna say most
people that were in the Sea Orgthat smoked and drank coffee,
that's the entirety of theirsource Sea Org pay would just
barely pay for cigarettes andcoffee.

SPEAKER_00 (52:58):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (52:58):
So there's not a lot of money left over to spend on
clothes, especially if you don'treally wear them that often
anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (53:04):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (53:05):
Uh there were people that when we wore what were
called civilian clothes, theyhad one or two outfits.

SPEAKER_00 (53:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (53:13):
So if we had to wear civilian clothes on Saturday and
Sunday, they had exhausted theircivilian clothes wardrobe for
the most part.

SPEAKER_00 (53:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (53:22):
And there were people when we had really fancy
events, and you were supposed tojust wear like a, you know, like
a button-down shirt or maybe a asuit jacket.
Some of these people would showup in some 70s garb, and
everybody there was a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Yeah, like that one guy had that brown suede jacket
that had fringe uh fringe likelong foot-long fringe that went
all the way around the back andall the way down the arms.

SPEAKER_03 (53:51):
It was like Saturday Night Fever up in here.
It's like, dude, seriously.
But so, but there were peoplewho had stuff from the 70s,
there were people that had stufffrom the 80s.

SPEAKER_00 (54:00):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (54:01):
It was it was a lot.
It was a lot.
There was a lot of people thatwere like that too.
I would say at least 30 to 40people would dress at least a
decade or so out of time, out ofout of place.

SPEAKER_01 (54:14):
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
For sure.
Okay.
Um I just saw your new interviewwith Julian Dory, over 100,000
views.
Are you doing a follow-up soon?
It was a great interview.
Thank you for watching that.
And yes, we will link to theJulian Dory part one interview
in the video description.
But yes, there is a part two.

(54:34):
Like we said, when we recordedthis back in April, it was seven
hours.
So part one is three hours.
So there's another four hourscoming, and we have more things
that we're working on planningfor the future.
So yeah, really greatconversation.
Um both Julian and Deef, I thinkhis name is.
Yeah, they were it was a it wasa a long day, but really fun.

SPEAKER_03 (54:59):
Yeah.
And it was actually we it was alittle weird because it's not
normally how we do podcasts, butwe kind of started like right in
the middle, and then at the atthe end of the video that we did
that it's out right now.
Basically that we went back andstarted at the beginning of our
stories and told them.

(55:20):
So we it was just kind of whatwe got started talking about
when we were there.
It was just like, oh, we'rerolling.
Okay, we we've already beentalking.
So it's all good.

SPEAKER_01 (55:32):
Um okay, loving the freedom chat, checking in from
southern Utah.
Good to see you, Jamie.
Thanks for joining us.
Nice.
Mark and Claire, do you rememberthe first SP party you had at a
lake outside LA years ago?
Tori Magoo, yes.
See, we're kind of famous, andI've always thought that this is

(55:54):
why we have always been onOSA's.

SPEAKER_03 (55:58):
Oh, we're the worst for OSA.

SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Because we just bring people together.
You and I both love doing that.

SPEAKER_03 (56:04):
Yeah, we had these parties in LA and we called them
SP parties.
Yes.
And we would go um to PyramidLake is the lake that we went to
outside of this, north of LosAngeles.

SPEAKER_00 (56:16):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (56:16):
And we would bring we had two jet skis.
My I had one and my friend hadone.
Yeah.
We would bring them on a trailerand we would throw basically a
giant party um at the beach, andwe're just like, bring, bring
whoever, come, who, come withwhoever.
And I remember I remember therewas a guy that I used to talk to

(56:40):
on the message boards that I waslike, hey, if you want, you can
come to this party.
And um, and that ended up beingJeffrey Augustine was the one
who came to the party.
And um, and he was like wantingto talk about this.
I was like, dude, we're we'rehere to party.
We're not here to talk aboutthis nonsense.
We're here to party.
We can talk about a little bitof the nonsense, but mostly

(57:02):
party.
Um, but yeah, we I rememberthose, Tori.
Those were loads and loads offun.
Yes, I actually remember we hadJames.

SPEAKER_01 (57:10):
Oh, and and happy birthday to Tori.
We did a video for her livestream saying happy birthday.
And I was saying how the thefirst time I'm I remember
meeting Tori was in the earlyanonymous days at the protests,
and then we went to her houseand we met all these people, and
yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 (57:27):
Shout out to Tori.

SPEAKER_01 (57:28):
Yes.
She just turned 79.

SPEAKER_04 (57:31):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (57:32):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (57:33):
Yeah, I remember one time we had an SP party like on
Saturday, and Janice was havinga party in Culver City or Santa
Monica on Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 (57:42):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (57:43):
And I remember I was up all night Friday because you
had to get up to the lake atlike four in the morning to get
in line to be able to get a spotfor a jet ski on Pyramid Lake.

SPEAKER_00 (57:53):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (57:54):
And so then I was up all Friday, uh, Friday night, up
all Saturday night from packingup and breaking down the whole
thing from Saturday, and thendidn't get any sleep Saturday
night, and then went to herparty on Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 (58:06):
And I think even Thursday night you were up all
night finishing the job you wereworking on at the time.
The you were doing weird AlYankovic.

SPEAKER_03 (58:13):
Yeah, it's just like I hadn't slept for like four
days, and the only and then andthen I was like, how ironic that
I'm staying up to have all theseparties for the to do all these
SP parties.
And I'm pulling all nighters todo it.

SPEAKER_01 (58:27):
Yes.
Okay.
Fun, fun, fun.
We've got some more comments tocover.

SPEAKER_03 (58:34):
If you st they start, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (58:36):
Yep.
Okay.
Are the Sea Org members here onreligious visas visas have any
knowledge of the freedomsafforded to us in the
Constitution Bill of Rights, orare they kept in the dark?

SPEAKER_03 (58:47):
Yeah, I don't um I don't know how they do that with
these guys.

SPEAKER_01 (58:51):
Yeah.
I'm sure that they don't knowwhat their rights are.

SPEAKER_03 (58:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:55):
They they think they're getting a a a great deal
coming to the U.S.
and then when they get here, andeither they try to escape, but
then it it gets very, verymessy.
We've seen cases.
Right.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (59:08):
We have they basically have to go to the
embassy of the that thatrepresents their country to
basically be like, I gottricked.
They told me I was gonna comehere for the this religious
thing.
I've just been cleaning hotelrooms for eight years.
Right.
And I ain't never really doneanything.
But they're getting three hotsand a cot, and that's better

(59:29):
from whatever situation theycame from.
So in some cases, they kind ofare cheating the system.
They get to be here in America.
Well, they're not Scientology isunderstand, but they're getting
fed and they're they're allowedto stay here.
Yep.
But they're not really free togo just go and do whatever they
want.
They're kind of stuck in thatsituation with Scientology.

SPEAKER_01 (59:52):
Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (59:54):
Uh, here we go.

SPEAKER_01 (59:58):
Catherine says, I remember one year when they let
us go Christmas shopping beforethe Christmas bonus was paid.
Oh my gosh, yes, totally beenthere.
I know, it's ridiculous.
It's like what a waste of time.
Send us your York Membershopping with no money.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:13):
It's eight dollars and eighteen cents.
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:15):
It's like, oh honey, I got you some paper clips for
Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:18):
I remember one year and we I think we got a hundred
dollar bonus at Golden AirProductions.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:26):
And we all got on these buses and we all went to
Cabazon.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:31):
And which was like an outlets mall in the middle of
the desert, basically.
Nothing really around it.
One hotel's there now where theyhave like gan uh Indian casino
or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:40):
Didn't we go there one year just for like oh, yeah.
No, no.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:46):
But I mean, after we got out, we went there one time
to go shopping.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:49):
Oh yeah, we did just to see what it was like.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:51):
I always I it was painful to me going to the Well,
that's what I was just about tosay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:56):
You got a hundred dollar bonus to buy all your
Christmas presents.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:01):
And everybody's talking about this Cabazon, like
it's the greatest thing sincesliced bread.
I'm like, okay, whatever.
I've never heard of this thing.
Cabazon, whatever.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:08):
Yeah, what is this Cabazon you speak of?

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:10):
We get there and it's uh it's an outlet wall with
like a giant food court in it.
And I the first thing I rememberis like, oh, I'll think I'll get
uh a this present for my dad andthis present for my mom.
And I went in there and I sawthis really cool thing my dad
would like, and I looked at itand was like, that's$147.
And I was like, huh.
Okay.

(01:01:30):
And then I looked at somethingelse.
It's like, oh, that's$80.
And I'm like, how am I supposedto buy all these different
presents when everything is somuch more expensive?
And then I basically got cardsin the end.
The only thing I could afford toget everybody was barely the
cards.
I was under$100.
And then I go to that outletmall, uh, the food court, where

(01:01:52):
every it's like, oh, we're gonnameet here before we leave.
And I go there and I look at theprices of the thing, I go, damn,
I can't even buy any food atthis joint.
You know?
There's nothing I can afford.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:01):
And that was like in 1991 or 1992, probably when we
were like, Yeah, I just rememberI would never let myself think
the thought through, but theinteraction with the real world
and like because I I like to goshopping before I was in the C
organization, you know, I wouldlike it was something I enjoyed.

(01:02:22):
And so having that little tastewas it was painful.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:27):
Yeah.
Well, you also the Beverly Hillsmission was like around the
block from the Beverly Center.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:34):
So you were like I would go there.
We were used to the best thingever.
That's true.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:39):
As a mall.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:40):
Even though I couldn't, I would just go window
shopping and I didn't have moneyto buy things there.
But I would I loved that mall.
I loved walking around and justseeing everything and the people
and you know.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:53):
Yeah.
Anywho.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:55):
The only reason I like that mall is because there
was a DePesh Mode riot thatoccurred right outside that mall
in 1990.
It was pretty amazing.
Like they shut down LA becausethere's just too many people
trying to get records signed.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:07):
Nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:08):
Okay.
Are we uh ready?
Oh, we got a super chat in here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:11):
Oh, nice.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:12):
Same person we just answered the question from.
Thank you.
Three salt life.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:16):
Yes, thank you.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:17):
Here's one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:18):
Okay, what would happen if they went to the
police and say that somebody washolding their passport?
I mean the ministerial workers,yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:26):
Yeah, that's probably what they could that's
I would say that that's mostlikely how they're getting them
back.
It's going to the police orgoing to the uh embassy.
Either one of those is sort ofgoing to do the same thing,
like, hey, I'm trying to leave,but they have all my stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:43):
The trick is helping them to realize that that is an
option because the programmingin Scientology is, of course,
completely against that.
But anyway, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:54):
Yeah.
Um here's a really importantquestion.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:58):
Who is the DJ at your party?

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:01):
Yeah.
A party list.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:02):
Mark and I, yeah.
Uh we love Amazon playlists forour parties.
They have really good.
This is Claire.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:08):
When she says we, Claire.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:11):
Right here, folks.
I got you.
I got many compliments on myplaylist yesterday.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:16):
We love Amazon.
No, we don't.
You do.
Come on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:20):
Mark just plays DePesh Mode full time.
That's right.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:23):
I put on a Depeche Mode mode.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:24):
That should not come as a surprise.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:26):
Oh, look at this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:28):
Uh, my first live.
Yay.
So happy to have found yourchannel.
Hello from Cincinnati, Ohio.
Awesome.
Well, great to see you here.
Thanks for joining us, andthanks for for dropping in in
the chat.
We appreciate it.
We always love seeing new peoplehere.
So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:43):
Perfect.
Okay, we're going to do thegiveaway.
Let's flip over to giveawaymode.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:47):
Giveaway mode.
And this is uh anything from ournew Zenu 2026 Xinu and the Body
Thetans merch.
You can pick which one you like.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:57):
I gotta tell you guys because I gotta tell you
this all the time.
This is StreamYard's thing.
It just goes through thecomments.
If I don't win, it's rigged.
I didn't put that up.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:08):
Clara for good.
I love it.
Look at that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:10):
She did her own.
She's sidekacking the stream.
Okay, here we go.
Here we go.
Who will win the 2026 Xenia andthe Homeboys?
Xenia and the Body Things.
Chelsea Rama.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:25):
8,400.
Nice.
Congratulations.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:28):
There you go.
You're the big winner.
Yes, send me an email.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:32):
Claire at blownforgood.com.
Yay.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:36):
Exciting.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:37):
With your address and with the item you'd like,
and we'll get it taken care of.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:40):
Yeah.
Okay.
Now we'll say who was here.
We'll do some shout outs withlike we did.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:46):
Hi all from Alley in England.
Nice.
Greetings from North Carolina.
Betsy Sue, Trevanon.
Good evening from theNetherlands.
Greetings from Santa Monica.
Hi from California.
Toons Malloy.
Happy Sunday from New Mexico.
Hello from Washington.
From Avondale, Arizona.
Nice.
Hello from Los Angeles.

(01:06:08):
Hi from Willamette Valley,Oregon.
Happy Sunday from Hollywood.
Nice.
Hi, y'all from South Carolina.
Nice.
Still me 05.
Good morning from Australia.
Nice.
Starkey222.
Hello from Winnipeg.
Nice.
Thank you for joining us.

(01:06:30):
Loving the freedom chat.
Checking in from southern Utah.
Hello from Washington State.
Knit knot with blisters.
Okay.
Hi from Norfolk, England.
Matt Denny in the house.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:43):
They're knitting so much they got blisters.
That's what that is.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:46):
Okay.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:46):
It's a knitting.
A knitting addiction.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:50):
Greetings from Canton, Ohio.
Good to see you.
Love Food Kitchen.
What a great name.
Chelsea Rama.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:57):
Because Fosters.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:59):
I didn't see my name with the losers, even.
Oh dear.
Well, um, it it is automatic onthe uh the entries, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:09):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:10):
So it doesn't necessarily show everybody that
commented that was in there.
Yeah, exactly.
I was watching a music channeltoday and they had a depeche
mode mini special.
I always think of Mark.
Thank you, Harvey.
Good to see you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:07:23):
Yeah, they banned Depeche Mode at the
International.
This is what somebody told usthat left many years after the
year.
But a reliable source,nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:31):
And it did not surprise me one bit because
everybody associated Mark.
Because Mark used to run the allhands to set up the dining hall.
So like they we would move allthe tables and set up the chairs
for briefings, and from whenwe'd have to listen to an El Ron
Hubbard lecture on Saturdaynight and all that.

(01:07:51):
Mark would run that.
And so I would control themusic.
Yes.
You would always be have theloudest voice, you would say,
set it up.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:02):
And then DePesh Mode would play.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:05):
And they had no choice.
They just had to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:10):
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:11):
There was no musical freedom there.

unknown (01:08:13):
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:13):
No.
You were uh running adictatorship on the setup.
How I wish I could have a chatwith Billy Sheehan.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:21):
You know, so Billy Sheehan did something really
crazy in the early anonymousdays when there were anonymous
protests at the Scientologylocations.
Um Billy Sheehan came out andwas just answering questions for
people, but he didn't haveapproval to do it.
He was kind of just being roguedoing it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:40):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (01:08:41):
And um and I remember that I was um seeing a
uh I my I my back I had severeback issues from all the
craziness inside of Sea Org.
And I was seeing a chiropractor,and one of the chiropractors uh
chiropractors' assistants um hada relationship with Billy
Sheehan.
She was just dishing full time.

(01:09:02):
As soon as they found out I hadsomething to do with
Scientology, she was justdishing full time about Billy's
L.
Ron Hubbard room in his hishouse that has all the L.
Ron Hubbard books and all thecourses and all the CDs and
she's like, you can't go inthere and touch anything.
It's his like shrine to L.
Ron Hubbard.
But it was about the same timeas that was happening.

(01:09:24):
Yeah.
So um Hi from Toronto.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:28):
Nice.
Love and life, good to see you.
Um, Satan's Tatan.
Hello from London, nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:37):
Oh, I'm uh you're oh you're hi from Toronto.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:39):
Yeah, there we go.
Hello from London, nice.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:42):
Yeah, I ran out of starred questions.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:44):
Oh, okay, awesome.
Well, we're good.
I think we made it to the end,folks.
Oh, nice, thank you.
And then there's one there.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:55):
Um and then this last one I just saw that they do
do this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:58):
Question Did the local orgs or even the LA one
ever do community events for thefourth?

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:03):
So they would do this thing, like I said.
They'd have like a block party.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:07):
And then they'd try to get people in to watch a film
or you know watch it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:12):
It was never just have a burger.
It was always uh There was acat.
If you want a burger, you gottawatch our film.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:20):
Burgers are in there out here's the celery.
There's burgers in there wherethe films play.
Where the the meter pinch testplayers.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:28):
If you want a ketchup, you gotta watch another
thing.
Oh, dear.
Awesome guys.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:36):
Well, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:37):
Thank you to everyone joining us.
We appreciate it.
Um, we will be back next Sunday.
Um, like we said, we'll post thelink to the the conversation we
had with Julian Dory in thevideo description.
If you haven't had a chance tosee that, we recommend you get
on over there and give it alisten.
It was a fun conversation, andyeah, there you go.
We made it to the end.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10:58):
Awesome.
Thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu, Xenu is myhomeboy and BFG branded mouse
pads, shirts, mugs, all sorts ofother stuff in there that helps
us to bring you new content on aregular basis.
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book, Blown for Good Behind

(01:11:21):
the Iron Curtain of Scientology,in hardback, Kindle, and Audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast, and you can get that on
Apple, Spotify, or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on
this link right here, or youcould click on this one here, or

(01:11:42):
you can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.