What Happens When A Church Builds A Prison Out Of Policy - Secrets of Scientology #2 w/ Mat Pesch - Blown for Good: Scientology Exposed

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:26):
Hey guys, welcome back to the channel.
Oh, that's Claire.
Hari.
Sorry.
Just let me handle this realquick here.
Welcome back to the channel.
This is Mark Headley here.
Welcome to another episode ofBlown for Good, Scientology
Exposed.
Today we're doing a special uhnew, we're starting a new series
on the channel.

(00:46):
And um the one of the firstthings we're going to talk about
is Scientology's rehabilitationforce.
Project force, rehabilitation,project force.
And um, and I myself actuallynever went to what's called the
RPF, the rehabilitation projectforce.
So I wanted to bring somebody onwho had, and that's where we get

(01:08):
Matt Pesh.
Welcome, Matt.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Welcome, hello.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
Um Matt was in the how long were you in the Sea Org
for, Matt?

SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
27 years.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Okay, so Matt was in the Sea Org for 27 years, and
you were on the RPF at twodifferent times, right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
What when what what years were you on the RPF?

SPEAKER_02 (01:30):
Let's see.
I went to the RPF in uh October1983, and I got out of there in
late 1984.
And then I was RPF again laterin 2004, and I got out of there
in 2005.

SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
And when you left, that was when you escaped,
basically.
When you basically left the RPF,but you also left the C
organization.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
I was done.

SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
Well, what I wanted to dobecause Matt was on the RPF, and
um and he knew how it worked,and um, and also he was also
posted at the base where therewas an RPF, and he was posted in
Florida where there was an RPF.
And um there's RPFs.

(02:21):
The ones that I knew of, thereused to be one at the
international headquarters,there's one in LA, there's one
in Florida, there was one inEast U.S.
for a little while, I think, inum in CLO, East US in New York.
And then they had one in in Anzoin Australia at the uh at the

(02:43):
Seawork base there, and thenDenmark and St.
Hill.

SPEAKER_02 (02:49):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Those were all the ones that I knew of.
Did I miss any?

SPEAKER_02 (02:56):
No, those are the main ones anyway.
If somebody else had something,it wasn't much.

SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
Yeah, I don't think Latin America had an RPF.
Um, I know they had a uh uh it'scalled a CLO, uh continental
liaison organization there.
Um Okay, so what I thought wewould do is I actually have
what's called a flag order.
And a flag order is a policythat L.

(03:22):
Ron Hubbard wrote that uh thatin within Scientology, it's
mainly meant for the Corganization.
Only the C org members umoperate and read flag orders.
And this flag order is uh flagorder 3434 RB, and it's from 7
January 1974, and it looks likeit got revised and a few times,

(03:47):
and there's other flag ordersabout the RPF, but this is like
the main one that lays out thisis how the RPF works.
And I wanted to kind of justskim through this, but um the
the the RPF actually started outas it was originally called on
the on the flagship Apollo,where Hubbard first started the

(04:09):
sea organization.
It was called the Mudbrock,Mudbox Brigade, and then it
became the Bilge Brigade, andthen the Bilge Brigade became
the rehabilitation projectforce.
That's my understanding of itfrom doing all the research for
this video.
Um, but that was in the late 60swhen that started, and then it

(04:30):
kind of evolved into this by the70s.
Um and you guys can pause this.
We're not gonna, I'm not gonnaread the that we would literally
be here for four hours if I hadto read this.
It's a long one, it's a biggie.
Um, even for a flag order.
There's a lot of flag ordersthat are like two paragraphs.
Some are, you know, maybe onepage, two page.

(04:51):
This thing's it's gargantuan.
So um, okay, so that's the firstpage, shows it all that the
rehabilitation project force ishereby brought into being in
Division IV area estates org.
And we'll get to that a littlewhy it's in estates.
We'll get to that a littlelater.
Um okay, so you basically theseare the four things that can get

(05:17):
you assigned to the RPF per thisissue later on in the years,
Matt.
You know, you could you could dobasically anything and it would
be a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Later on, yeah.
You wouldn't even hear aboutthis FO hardly in the in the
future because they can throw itout the window.
They just did whatever the heckthey wanted to do, and it was
based on whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (05:37):
Yeah, so this one says uh to it are assigned
RSers.
That's people who have evilpurposes that are found on
Scientology's e-meter, and thenthe needle slams all over the
dial, and it's called a rockslam.
And if you're on the e-meter andthat happens and you're in the
Sea Org, you get to go to theRPF.

(05:57):
Um, low A OCA non-producers,that's people who do there's a
stupid test, personality test,that Scientology has that's
totally rigged.
And if you're low on that test,you can get assigned to the RPF.
Um, repeated stat crashers,that's just people who just
don't get anything done.
Um they get nothing done manyweeks, as evidenced by their

(06:23):
statistics.
And then overt product makers.
So if you if you're making afilm and there's a bad edit in
the film that is that goes outto the organizations and it
looks horrible, that would bewhat would be called an overt
product, or if you just umanything that's not done perfect

(06:46):
in Scientology would be an overtproduct.
It's just a means mess up,basically, something messed up.
Um and then there's anotherthing in the Sea Org, when you
first get into the Sea Orgcalled the Estates Project
Force, and that's listed righthere, the Estates Project Force,
and that's for brand new people.

(07:06):
And one of the reasons why Iwanted to show this um and talk
about this is it says if a newarrival to the Sea Org is found
to be in one of the categoriesone through four above, when he
arrives and he has not returnedwhence he came, he is routed
straight to the RPF.
So you could go to the RPF assoon as you get into the Sea

(07:27):
Org, which is kind of crazy tome.
I don't, I don't have you everheard of that happening, man.
I don't ever remember anybody.

SPEAKER_02 (07:33):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (07:34):
And that's another thing.
We want to meant I want to makesure you clearly understand.
This is what El Run Hubbard saidis the RPF, but um the RP and
how it should operate andeverything.
But the RPF kind of depending onwhere it is, it's a totally
different RPF than than thisissue says it is.

(07:57):
Um okay, oh, RPF wear blackboiler suit or ethnically
acceptable cleaning outfit invery dark blue, which is
basically uh like uh coveralls,right?
But most RPFs for the entiretime that I was aware of them,
they wore black shorts, blackshoes, black t-shirt.

SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
Yeah, or jeans or anything else.

SPEAKER_01 (08:23):
Oh, you could wear jeans too?

SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
Oh wow.
Okay, or jeans.
So it that's pretty much whatthey wore.
I guess it also depends on whatkind of work you're up to
because if you can't be wearingshorts if you're doing certain
kinds of construction or weldingor you know, something like
that.
Right.
Um okay, the RPF is under thearea estates bosun is in charge

(08:48):
of the RPF or help from above,but not single-handed.
Um estates is the division in aSea Org organization or C org uh
base that takes care of theproperty.
They do the groundswork, theplumbing, uh, mechanical,
engineering, electricalconstruction, anything related

(09:09):
to the actual facilities beingmaintained or upgraded is done
by the estates division.
Okay, then it shows all thesedifferent people.
You have the bosun who's theboss, the MAA, and then di
different sections of the RPF.
Um I'll pause you guys can pausethese if you want to read all

(09:32):
this.
This is just how they do howthey basically count their
statistics and all this othernonsense.
Um restriction of RPF from flagcrew.
Oh, there's a this is says it'sa highlight right here.
RPF is uh the ethics and thesection leaders.

(09:53):
He forces, oh he forces thesection leaders to keep ethics
in on their sections, and if hehas to take ethics action on a
set section member, thatmember's leader suffers the same
penalty.
So if you get in trouble, yourboss also gets in trouble.
Um, did you ever rememberanything like that or any
stories like where somebody onthe RPF got big, big trouble?

SPEAKER_02 (10:18):
No.
It's I mean, this is you know,this is what they have written
in real life.

SPEAKER_03 (10:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
In real life, when I here's how I got to the RPF
originally.
I was working in the States, Iwas over renovations and
construction.
It was 1983.
They were trying to get readyfor Hubbard to come back to the
base.
There it was a whole list ofbuildings and projects that
needed to get done.
They needed the manpower, sothey collected up the RPF from
all over the world, sent themall to the international base.

(10:48):
And so then we had like 80 guys,and we ran them like they were
worse than slaves.
They got no study time, no timeto do the work, the programs to
get back to their regularorganizations or back to their
wife and children.
It was Saranarata, all that.
We ran them lots of, I'd say wethey might average at best four

(11:10):
hours of sleep a day.

SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Some days the whole RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
The whole RPF.
There were times where the wholeRPF stayed up for three day days
straight.
Working on the desertconstruction around the clock.

unknown (11:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
It was well, let me show, because we're gonna show.
Let me just see if I can find itreal quick.
It says when they're supposedto.
This is b this thing restrictionthing is basically they're not
allowed um to do any kind ofactivities that the crew are
doing.
They're basically in their ownbubble and they're not allowed
to eat with the crew, they'renot allowed to mingle with the

(11:46):
crew, they're not, they can'tstay in the same rooms as the
the other crew.
You can't talk unless it'sspoken to.
Anyway, but let's just I'mtrying to find if um this is if
you get it assigned and you'renot you oh, this is the other
thing.
I can't remember if it's thispart.

(12:09):
Anyway, it says um when you'refirst assigned.
I'm trying to see if this is it,but there's somewhere in here it
says if you're assigned to theRPF and you don't want to be
there, then you go to what'scalled the RPF's RPF, which is
like a little labor camp insidethe labor camp.

(12:32):
It's it's a the guys in theRPF's RPF, the RPFers are like,
you suck, you're in the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (12:42):
Yeah, I've been in the RPF's RPF.
Oh, it sucks.
You think you know they getlittle sleep, you get less than
them, and then they eat theleftovers from the crew, you eat
the leftovers from the RPF.
Yeah, that's crazy.
It sucks.
It sucks.

SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Okay, so here's the part I wanted to show.
So utilization.
So basically, the RPF, does itsay on the page before if they
do uh it doesn't say, butthey're basically the RPF are
supposed to work for a certainamount of hours a day, and
they're supposed to study or dotheir interrogations on the

(13:19):
e-meter um to find out whattheir evil purposes are, because
if you have a rock slam, thatmeans you have evil purposes.
Um you gotta find out what allyour evil purposes are.
Um and that was supposed to befor five hours a day.

SPEAKER_02 (13:33):
Yeah, five hours a day.
You're supposed to try toreprogram the guy, like
re-educate him, and you knowthat it's like a I don't know,
it's almost like a South Koreaor North Korea re-education
camp.

SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
That's basically what Yeah, reprogramming camp.
Like basically, if you're not ifyou're not uh, you know, with
the program and doing whateverybody else wants to do, then
you got to get reprogrammed sothat you will be doing what
everybody else is supposed to bedoing.
And they and I've seen peoplethat were wild and crazy and
doing all kinds of nonsense, andthen they went to the RPF and

(14:08):
they came back and they werethey were rounded off.
There wasn't anything, theyweren't doing anything.
And then you'd see some peoplewho go to the RPF and they come
back just the same, and then afew years later they'd be right
back on the RPF.
Um, anyway, so for the sectionof the day that they're working,

(14:29):
this these are the things thatthey can work on, which is
basically when you when I readthe list, you're gonna see it's
anything and everything that youdon't want to do in the C org.
That all gets done by the RPF.
So utilization.
The sections of the RPF, eithersingly or combined, are put to
work on building cleaningexterior, including grounds and

(14:51):
interior, heads cleaning, that'slike the bathrooms, uh, painting
required, no extra skill,internal renovation, storage,
passageway, and stairwellcleaning.
Remember, these guys were on aon a um a cattle ferry in the
middle of the ocean that itconverted into this this

(15:12):
basically this boat that Hubbardhad all these people working on.
So some of these are nautical uhleaning in in uh the the
verbiage.
Uh storage passageway andstairwell cleaning, large-scale
CSP, that means clean shipprogram.
That's just when they'recleaning up the ship.
Large-scale CSP actions, but notin any birthing, messing, or

(15:35):
galley areas.
Garage cleaning, elevator,that's so crazy that that number
six, that's in in LA at the packRPF.
That's mostly what they did wasdo the galley.
Um seven, garage cleaning.
But not in any birthing,messing, or galley areas.

(15:57):
Yeah, that's not, that's not,they don't do that.
Um elevator and elevator shaftcleaning, um, engine room
cleaning, especially the upperand lower lower boiler rooms,
and then pantry.
Um so that this is a good oh, itstill goes.

(16:18):
Um okay, party, etc.
Setups, but only mess work,moving furniture, etc.
11 garbage disposal, 12, anyother actions may be approved
and not otherwise by the LRHpurse.
This is just getting it gettingit approved if you want them to
do something else that's not onthis list.
Um the RPF do not clean FCCIrooms.

(16:39):
FCCI means flag case completionintensive.
It just means somebody who'spaying to be at the at Flag.
So in the when this was written,they were in the middle of the
ship, and that ship would justsail around.
It would go to Greece and be inCorfu, and then it'd be in this
island in Morocco.

(17:00):
And if you were a Scientologistand you were trying to go there
to get this high-levelScientology counseling, then you
would fly into one of thosedocks and then you'd get on the
ship.
Um, and the people that were onthe ship that were paying to be
there were called FCCIs, uh,flag case completion intensive.

(17:22):
Um, prepare and paint you unlessit is in a large area and is
properly supervised by the RPFbosun, if it is.
Um work anywhere near food, foodpreparation, cooking, and
serving.
Um, and then I gotta put this uphere so I can read it under the
snob button thing.
Work on any machinery orequipment except for cleaning

(17:45):
it, but may not dismantle anymachine being cleaned.
But may not dismantle.
Oh, that's probably because theybroke shit all the time.
Um it never ends this thing.
Uh, do clerical work of anykind, clean, rearrange, or
otherwise handle.
These are the things they're notsupposed to do, right?
Is that what it said?

SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Yeah.
And this whole thing is just BS.

SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
Yeah.
Like fine pay, be do anysecurity guard watch or WQS.
Basically.
Yeah.
This is crazy.
I'm gonna go, I'll go to thenext page.
Um Okay, so just based on thethe policy of that, you're
saying that's completelynonsense.

SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
Like you got like tell me some of the things that
you guys did when you were onthe RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
I mean, I could take it in order, but but I'll I'll
start with one at at uh at theend base with 83.
All right.

SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Okay.
1983, guys.

SPEAKER_02 (18:47):
Yep.
Different time periods anddifferent bases were different.
Um in 83, like I said, they werebringing RPFs in from all the
different RPFs around the world.

SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
So you bet so uh that's you know, that's a crazy
thing because um uh OT Techiesaid, hello from Nebraska.
I was on the RPF twins.
Once ended me at the ant base,and the other for being late to
muster, it's in Mark's book.
Yes, it is techie, it is inthere.
So he went, he was on the RPFsomewhere else, and he got to

(19:18):
the int base on the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
Exactly.
He was probably one of thepeople that got brought there
when this whole thing went down.
So they rounded up all thesedifferent RPFs from all over the
world.
They brought them there to be abig workforce.
Uh, once they got there, insteadof getting a program of what
you'd have to work on five hoursa day so you can someday get
back to your family and yourchildren and your organization
and all that, it wasn't anytime.

(19:41):
It was just, you know, put theminto uh organize them into work
groups, and they were buildingbuildings from the ground up.

SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
They were which which is everything, which is
everything the concrete, the thethe walls, the electrical, the
plumbing, the uh the roof, thetoilets, everything that goes
into building a building.
The people that are buildingthat are just everyday Sea Org
members.
That they have in most cases,they have little to no

(20:14):
construction experience at all.

SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
Like And they would they were drawing the b building
plans, like for that that uhmusic studio that got built.

SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
The RPF did the plans too.

SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
Yes.
Yes, they did it in the garage,the parking garage.

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
They made they did the designs for the buildings,
yes.

SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
Yes, they did all the drawings there.

SPEAKER_01 (20:37):
This makes so much more sense to me why everything
there is so funny.

SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
I brought those plans to build this to get them
approved for that big musicstudio that was built that L Run
Hubbard music studio?

SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
Yes, that was built by RPFers.
Yes, and it was drawn anddesigned, and it was it was, you
know, Tony Ortega Tony Ortegahad this um this uh article
about what all of DavidMiscavige campaign bars mean.
I saw that.
And there's like three or fourof them in there um that are

(21:10):
like the Golden Era Studio, theLRH Music Studio, Golden Era
Productions Bays.
So basically he has thosebecause of the RPF.
Because the RPF did all thosethings.

SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (21:23):
Barry Stein was on the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
No, he was the LRH architect because he was
overseeing a lot of that stuff,like a lot of the plans.

SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
Okay, so they basically draw stuff up and then
he would look at it and say,Okay, what'd you guys do here?

SPEAKER_02 (21:35):
And then Yeah, and he hated, he didn't want to have
anything to do with it.
He wanted to just be a musicianbecause he, you know, he plays
the keyboards and stuff likethat.
And they were trying to drag himback into you know being an
architect.
Right.
Which they had to tell him thathe was going to get declared if
he didn't do it, because he wasrefusing to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Oh, he was like, I don't want to do architect
stuff.
I came here to be a musician.

SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
Yes.
So it was over total protest,and he never bummed out.
No.

SPEAKER_01 (22:00):
Spoiler alert, he never became a musician.
He was always in the architectoffice when he wasn't on the
RPF.
But um he also, I remember thismakes total sense to me now,
because every once in a while ata Christmas party or something,
he would get up and be play asong with the band, like one
song or something.
Yeah.
And um, and I thought, wow, thatdude's an architect, but he's

(22:23):
really a musician.
The funny thing is he was reallya musician here who didn't want
to be the architect.
No.
Okay, so so they built all thebuildings.
That's one.

SPEAKER_02 (22:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
But they did everything else too, right?

unknown (22:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:36):
Were they doing grounds?

SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
No, they it was, yeah.
I mean, they were doing plantingorchards.

SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
They were okay, so planting.

SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
I mean so like new construction grounds.

SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
Anything that was needed so that the place, the
base would be ready for LRH tocome back and everything would
look pretty and everything wasgonna, you know, do its thing.

SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
And this is in '83.

SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (22:58):
So they're just about to find out that he ain't
coming back.

SPEAKER_02 (23:02):
Yeah, and if you said that you didn't think he
was coming back, you you wouldget declared.
You would toast.
I mean, that was such an enemy.
Really?

SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
That he wasn't coming back to the base?

SPEAKER_02 (23:10):
Yes.
I mean, Chris Byrne asked me onetime because he was like working
with me, he was like mysidekick, and he said one day,
just you know, because we werebusting our butt like month
after month on this thing, hesaid, just between me and you,
do you think this is he's evergonna come back?
And I said, No, I don't thinkhe's gonna come back.
Why would he?
Place is so nuts, how would youeven work here, you know?
And his office would be like 30yards off the highway.

(23:32):
I mean, yeah, so for security.
And he originally said, get aproperty that doesn't have you
know a mountain over the top ofit where you could be snipered
and stuff like that.
And that's exactly what theygot.
Yes, it had everything wrongwith the base for him to come
back and actually work there.
So because I said that and itcame up in a rollback that got
done on Chris.

SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Oh, he got interrogated on the e-meter and
he ratted you out.

SPEAKER_02 (23:54):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
Oh my god.
Did you have to go to the RPF'sRPF?

SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
I wanted to go into the RPF.
I wasn't in the RPF at the time.

SPEAKER_01 (24:02):
Oh, this you weren't in the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
That's how you got there was by saying he wasn't
coming back.

SPEAKER_02 (24:09):
Well, that's one of the ways.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
You were assigned to the RPF for saying that he did
wasn't going to come back.

SPEAKER_02 (24:15):
Yeah, I was disaffected.
That's why I got sent to the RPFfor being for disaffection.

SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
You know, that's so crazy because when sometimes
when the flag um the event wouldbe at flag and the int base
would have to go down to flag,um, there was one time when
David Miscavige said, I don'twant you guys hanging out with
Peter Vogading or Matt Pesch orum because uh you guys were

(24:41):
disaffected.
He said that.
He said these guys are alldisaffected.
But Peter Vogening was also aperson who used to work on
stuff, and he was at he was inuh uh Clearwater, and but he
would he used to be at the Impbase or he used to be somewhere
else, and he got banished tothere.

SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
He was he worked at the end base for a while.

SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
Peter Vogadine.

SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Yeah, Peter Vogening.
I mean there was a few of themlike Peter Vogening and and uh
uh Jim Cup and uh Oh yes.
Mary R.

SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
Buckle, Jim Cup, yeah, they all worked at the
in-base.
Yeah, what was the last one?

SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
Uh Waldo, remember Waldo?
Oh, yeah.
Chris Byrne.
There was a bunch of us that cansort of what was called a CPF.
It was the uh correction projectforce, which was just like the
RPF stepsister.
I never heard of the CPF.
Because there's no such thing,but it was made up for us.

SPEAKER_01 (25:37):
It's like you guys are on a special project force.
Yeah, what are we gonna name it?
I don't know.
Figures CPF.
There you go.

SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah, we would sleep on the floor in some derelict
billing, you know.
Who was that?
You know, it was whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (25:51):
Okay, so you're on the RPF, and this is at the end
base.

SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
Yeah, we're at the end base.
These guys are uh, I'm like theperson that's outside the RPF
that's overseeing getting themgetting to run on these
projects.
So they don't have a way tocommunicate with anybody else
outside the RPF except for me.
And I'm being a middleman to betelling these guys what they're
gonna do and what you know.
I that I have to tell them likewhen you finish A, B, and C, you

(26:17):
guys are gonna be able to goback on study, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:20):
Oh, so that's so that's another great thing.
So that's a good point.
So remember before we said thatI think they're supposed to
sleep seven hours a day, andthen they're supposed to work
eight hours a day, and thenthey're supposed to study five
hours a day.

SPEAKER_03 (26:34):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Does that even add up?
Is that even math?
Does that math, math?
Seven plus fifteen?
No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
But basically, they're supposed to be eight
hours, they're supposed to getseven hours sleep and five hours
of enhancement time.
And then, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
But um and meals, and they have 30-minute meals.

SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
No, they would have to set well in here.

SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
It says in this policy, it says they have
30-minute meals.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:05):
But anyway, so I'm telling these guys, do A, B, and
C, and I'm being told that youguys will be able to go do your
enhancement time so you cansomeday get off this RPF, right?

SPEAKER_03 (27:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
So they do A, B, and C, and when we were done, I
would be told, no, tell them nowthey're gonna do D E F, right?
So I have to like break the newsto them, no, you guys can't go
back and say, we gotta do this,this, and this, right?
So then they, you know, I don'thave to like rah-rah them up and
blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
You know, and they basically they would work full
time, no studying, no nothing.
They work full time andincluding staying up all night
or doing all nighters lots andlots of times.

SPEAKER_02 (27:40):
And they have no way to communicate with their
children or wife other thanthrough a letter that's
side-checked that makes surethey're not saying anything
other than they love it.

SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:48):
And that's it.
So they're like completely cutoff.
And then they have no idea whenthey might get out of there
someday.

SPEAKER_01 (27:54):
Yeah, and the only way you can get out of there is
you have to do the study part.
You can't just go get out bydoing the work part.
You gotta do the study partbecause they basically have to
verify over could take many,many years, that you have no
more evil purposes left in you.
You basically gotta excise themall.

(28:19):
Yeah, and you have to twin withanother person.

SPEAKER_02 (28:21):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
So you have to get all of their evil uh purposes
away, and they have to get allyour evil purposes away before
you either one of you cangraduate.
Yep.
It's basically it's set up tofail.
It would literally be like ifyou were a criminal, you would

(28:42):
have to team up with anothercriminal, and you guys would
have to basically sort eachother out so that you're not
criminals anymore.
And once you could prove underno uncertain terms that you were
no longer criminals because yougot rid of all your evil
purposes, then you could maybego back to your organization.
And sometimes they don't sendyou even back to where you came

(29:04):
from.
No, sometimes they just send yousomewhere completely different
so you never see your familyever again.

SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Exactly.
They don't really care if youget to see your family again.
It's not part of the somebody'sworry.
It really is.

SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
That's no, there's no part of this that has of the
policy that says we gotta getthis person back to their
family.
No.

SPEAKER_02 (29:23):
So my goodness.
So finally, it gets to the pointwhere this has gone on now for
at least nine, ten months of mejust running these guys.
That shit crazy.
I mean, I'm doing the same thingas them.
I'm on the same schedule.
I went from like uh 225 poundsdown to 165 pounds.
My wife was concerned becauseyou can see my ribs and my my

(29:44):
hips and everything else, right?
Who doesn't run?
Because you run everywhereyou're supposed to go.
You run, isn't it?
You just, you know, and you'renot just like, oh, once you nail
that up on the you're given thetime, what you have to do.
You gotta get such and such donein the next 20 minutes.
If you don't, drop down and giveme 10 push-ups.
You know, for the per the flagaudience, it says run a lap, but
we didn't have time to havepeople go run some lap.

SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
So it's like, no, just do some push-ups.

SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
Yeah, we're gonna just count it this way.
You just drop down, you do 10push-ups and get back to work.

SPEAKER_01 (30:12):
Yeah, so then the next page that we had to show
says the schedule.
It says the schedule for the RPFis to be worked out in detail by
the RPF MA, around seven hoursof sleep, five hours of study or
auditing, and 30 minutes foreach meal, and 30 minutes
personal hygiene each day.

(30:33):
Now, um, obviously, um, thestudy would get just no, you're
not gonna do that, you're gonnawork instead.
So seven hours or uh, you know,whatever the oh, I get it.
There's no work time in herebecause they basically just say
seven hours of sleep, five hoursof study, and then 30-minute
meals, and then everything elseis work.

SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Sure.

SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
So whatever the slop is, so basically the meals were
definitely not 30 minutes.
The regular crew had 30-minutemeals.
I think the RPF were eating in15 minutes at most.

SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
Yeah, we had 15-minute meals.

SPEAKER_01 (31:07):
Yeah.
Um, but then you take away allthe five hours of study, and
then you take away the sleep.
And so they're basically justworking as much.
I mean, my experience was theywere worked as hard as they
could be worked, and then likean extra 20% over that.

SPEAKER_02 (31:26):
Extra 200% over that.

SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
Well, at the Int base, when the RPF were doing
work for the shoot team, yeah,we we kind of um when we came
in, because they were workingfor estates before they were
working for us.
And so when they switched overto working for us, we wanted to
show them that we were betterthan the estates guys and that

(31:51):
we would run them a little less.
But when there was an eventcoming up or there was a shoot
coming up and we needed 20 sets,and there was four days left,
they were gonna be building 20sets all day and all night until
those sets were done.
Yeah, so it would end up, wewould slide right back into the
same it's it it is just it'sjust the C Work, how it works.

(32:12):
It's if you're in it, you'regonna be doing some working and
you're gonna be not doing a lotof sleeping and a lot, not a lot
of notes stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
Yeah.
So then, okay, so we're doingthis thing where I'm I'm giving
them these promises, they'regetting broken and broken and
broken, and then finally, uhafter months of this, I get told
that uh I need to announce agame to the RPF.
And I said, Okay.
But you're on the RPF now, oryou're still running them from
the outside?
This is before you got assigned.

(32:39):
Okay.
Yes.
So I said, okay, what's thegame, right?
And they say the game is if theycan build, complete the music
studio, the new one, that bigbeautiful music studio, if they
can complete that in the nextuh, what was it, by Christmas
time, which at that time wasjust like five weeks away, then
they can go on enhancement time.

(33:00):
I'm like, that's I got pissedoff.
I said, that's no game.
Come on, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
If you slave away for the next month, we'll let
you do the thing that you'realready supposed to be allowed
to do.

SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
Right.
And it was already that was justbeing added on the music studio
to other things, right?
And I said, you know, so I said,I'm not announcing that.
And Gary Weasley was my senior,and you know Gary Weasley.

SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
Yeah, he's in my book a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Yeah, he's gonna try to stop me from walking out of
that office after I said I'm notgonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
So I just I just threw him through the doorway
and walked out.
So then I had now reached a newlevel of disaffection, right?
Because now I was gettingphysical and not doing what I'm
supposed to do, which is right.

SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Not towing the line.

SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
Yeah, just slave these guys away and just shut
shut up, right?
So then I get told, okay, so nowyou gotta go to the RPF.
But which RPF do you want to goto?
Because you can't be on thisbase because you're disaffected.
So do you want to go to the flagRPF or do you want to go to the
one in Los Angeles?
The PAC.
I had already worked, yeah, thePAC RPF.

(34:02):
I had already worked in LosAngeles, the PAC area.
So I said, I'll I'm morefamiliar with that.
I go to the PAC.
They said, good, you're going tothe Flag RPF.

SPEAKER_01 (34:09):
Yeah.
That is 100% how it goes in thetheorem.
If you're gonna get the theworst punishment you can get,
you get asked.
You get asked, do you want to dothis punishment or do you want
to do this punishment?
And whatever the one is that youdon't want to do, that's the one

(34:31):
you get.

SPEAKER_02 (34:32):
That's the one you get.
So then I get sent to Flag, andwe're doing the ballroom and all
that kind of stuff there.
And uh after just about fiveweeks or something like that, I
get told I need to get on anairplane to go back to
international base to do my oldjob, but as an RPFer.
I'm gonna go still run all therenovations, construction, run
everything.

SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
RPFer.
So they fly me back to theinternational base, back to
gold.
And after a little, I'm runninguh the decks and stuff like
that, doing my job again.
The scavenge sees me one day andhe throws uh, you know, goes out
of his mind and orders me, ofcourse, off the base
immediately.
I need to be sent out of the SeaOrg, blah, blah, blah.
So I arrive at the uh at the PACRPF.

SPEAKER_01 (35:17):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (35:18):
And they you know, they have statistics there of
like you get so many, so muchcredit for square feet of carpet
land, for uh painting, differentthings, right?
Yeah, they have all thesedifferent sections and they all
have their own statistics.
Well, I'm in a section of one,just me, with two security
guards follow me around all thetime.
You know, while I'm supposed tobe getting dumped out of the sea

(35:38):
oak.
So I go and I paint all thebridge publications building
with a paint sprayer.
So I get all these statistics,and then I go lay carpet for you
know some other organization,and I'm I'm doing all this work.
I got higher statistics than allthe rest of the guys put
together.
They don't want to get rid ofme.
The RPF don't want to get rid ofme, right?

SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (35:59):
Because you know, they don't can't go to sleep a
lot of times until certainprojects are done.
So and I'm I'm not causing anyproblem, I'm just doing my the
work I'm supposed to do.
So they kind of they can't getmy folders sent down from gold.
They won't send them down.

SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
When he's when you when Matt says his folders, you
have um student folders and youhave your counseling folders.
Right.
And and this is kind of a crazything, but if you worked at the
international headquarters, um,all of your counseling and a lot
of your the the reports andeverything are to and from very,

(36:34):
very high-level C org members.
And also the stuff that you'retalking about in your in your
sessions could be about theproperty.
So if somebody uh goes from theinternational headquarters and
they get assigned to the RPFsomewhere, somebody has to go
through these folders, it couldbe thousands and thousands and

(36:55):
thousands of pages of documents.
Um I think I was I barely gotany counseling in the C org at
all.
And I think I had three or fourfolders that were, you know,
like a big two inches each.
And I barely had any.
I knew people that had a hundredfolders.

SPEAKER_03 (37:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Anyway, but somebody has to go through your folders
and they with a razor blade,like an X-Acto blade, and they
have to cut out any words orlocations at the property.
Like if you say I went to BonnieView, which was L.
Ron Hubbard's house at theproperty, he had a uh a house
there.
And if you went up to BonnieView and you were doing

(37:34):
something and you shouldn't havebeen up there or whatever, and
you say in your counseling,well, I went up to Bonneview and
I was, you know, I wasn'tsupposed to be up there, but I
was kind of poking aroundlooking at what's doing up
there.
Well, they have to go throughand they have to razor blade all
that out of your full out ofyour files.

unknown (37:49):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
So so your folders couldn't go to so your folders
couldn't go to LA becausesomebody had to do that.
So how long did that take?

SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Uh they never went there.

SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Oh, they never sent them.

SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
No, they never would have found my ethics files
because I had already shreddedall of those myself.

SPEAKER_01 (38:09):
We can't find your ethics files.
We're still looking.
Matt's like, you're never gonnafind them because I done
shredded them.

SPEAKER_02 (38:16):
I shredded all those files.

SPEAKER_01 (38:23):
When you get in trouble or somebody writes a
report on you, the the peoplethat work in the like the police
department of the Sea Org,they're supposed to, when they
filed that report in yourfolders, they're supposed to see
like, hey, this this guy'sgetting a lot of reports written
on him.
And that's an indicator of maybethere's something going on in

(38:46):
that area, um, if there's a lotof reports coming from an area.
So if if they go to file yourreport and there's no file.

SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
Well, here's the deal, right?
I'm working around the you know,24-7, and I'm getting reports
that you know, Matt didn't go tostudy, and Matt didn't, you
know, write his recruit letters,and Matt you made noise last
night that kept me up, and Mattmade dust.
I got out of my car.
These are all these things.
I kept, I literally got so manyreports a day.
I kept a shredding machine nextto my in-vet.

(39:16):
I would just take all that crapand just put it right through
the shredding machine.
I mean, I'm trying to get workdone.
I you know, I'll get all thesereports on me.
So I just felt like this wholething is bullshit.
Where's my files?
You know, there's one one nightI was supposed to do some
electrical work in the uh theoffice that they kept all that
stuff in, and I got my foldersand went over to the big
shredding machine and went, wow.

SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:37):
That was that.

SPEAKER_01 (39:38):
You know, it's so funny that you said that because
that is how the whole C orgworks.
If you don't get your job done,somebody writes a report on you,
you didn't get your job done.
But in the C org, you'resupposed to go to study every
day.
So if you don't go to study,then the supervisor, the course
supervisor, the person that isyour boss when you're a student

(40:00):
in the C org, then they write areport on you that you didn't
come to study because you'retrying to get your work done
because somebody report wrote areport on you for that.
And then um it wasn't always inforce, but every once in a while
it would be it would be in.
But there is a policy lettersomewhere where L.

(40:20):
Ron Hubbard wrote, if you don'tgo to study, the course
supervisor can have your paydocked.

SPEAKER_02 (40:26):
And they were doing that to me.
I wasn't getting paid because Iwasn't getting my study time.
I was getting my study timebecause I didn't have any sleep.

SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
It was just like it's an excuse for them not to
pay you.
So sometimes they'd be like,Hey, uh, the the executive
council, they're doing financialplanning.
They're like, we don't haveenough money to pay everybody.
And then I guarantee you this isI'm I this has happened before.
Be like, Why don't we uh havethe courses uh start docking

(40:53):
people?
And then so then they don't haveto make payroll because
everybody's and and and therethere were times at the property
when the course rooms would beempty all day and all night, so
everyone's working, no one'sgoing to study.
Like if David Miscavige is atthe property and says, You're
getting this done, or you'reyou're all bad things are gonna

(41:14):
happen for everybody.
No one, the first thing thatgoes is study.
You ain't going to study.
Of course we're not going tostudy.
Are you kidding me?
You know.
Anyway, so keep going.

SPEAKER_02 (41:25):
All right.
So so now I'm getting sent tothe RPF.
I'm gonna go to the one I flag.
I've got the flag.
They said, okay, get on anairplane, you're going back to
do your job.
I get to my, you know, there'sme, and he says, Okay, get this
idea out of here.
I went up back in Los Angeles.
And after, you know, a fewweeks, they just say, Okay,

(41:46):
let's just forget about thefolds or whatever is supposed to
be needed.
This guy is doing fine.
Let's just give him a twin andlet him start with the program.

SPEAKER_01 (41:52):
Okay.
So the twin is that is theperson that you're basically
married to in terms of um theirfate is your fate, your fate is
their fate.
You guys are locked.
You got to get each otherthrough.
So that's the other thing.
If you're getting into trouble,your twin gets in trouble as
well.
So if you're teamed up withsomebody who's a real, you know,

(42:15):
hardened criminal, you're in fora rocket ride of of just of just
depression full time becausethey're gonna drag you to into
whatever messes they want to getinto.

SPEAKER_02 (42:25):
Yeah.
Plus, if you know, like thefirst person I was linked up
with, after I got him like 75%through the program, his visit
had a problem.
He had to go back to Germany.
So I had to take another oneperson from scratch again.

SPEAKER_01 (42:38):
No, oh yeah, you got 75% of the way through, and then
he bailed, and they're like,Well, it wasn't sucks to suck.

SPEAKER_02 (42:46):
Yeah, it sucks to suck.
He has to, he can't stay here.

SPEAKER_01 (42:50):
And so you had to start over with a whole new
person.

SPEAKER_02 (42:52):
Yep, a new person that hadn't from scratch.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Oh, like somebody who just got assigned to the
RPM.

SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Yep.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (43:00):
Oh my gosh.
And this happens all the time.
Yeah.
Or the person you're doing theRPF your twin with.
Um, I've heard this, the storiesI heard would sometimes to
finish, you could do all the getrid of all the evil purposes,
all the your evil thoughts.
But then in order to getapproved, it could take months

(43:21):
and months or years for youryour basically your proposal
that you're not going to be onthe RPF anymore to get approved.
And sometimes people during thatwould just be like, screw this,
this is bullshit.
And then they would escape theSea Orc.
And then the person that stayedis like, oh no.
Because now their CSW has tocome right back, like, nope.

(43:41):
They're twin, they're twin blue.

SPEAKER_02 (43:43):
Yep.
Anyway, also, uh, becausemiscavage, the way you said get
off the base, and this guy'snever to come back.
Well, Gold decided they weren'tgoing to pay me.
They didn't need to pay mebecause I was not going to, I'm
not really a step am I nevergoing to come back.

SPEAKER_01 (43:56):
So you you were in like limbo.

SPEAKER_02 (43:58):
I got zero pay.
And I had given all my money toSteve Willett, who uh his wife
He used to be in construction atthe base.
Yes, and his wife wasn't part ofthe Sea Org, she was an
executive in Los Angeles at theLA Org, and she was about to
have a baby and they had nomoney.
But, you know, because she's notthe Sea Org, they have to pay
for expenses.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (44:19):
Lee Willett.

SPEAKER_02 (44:20):
Yep.
So I had 700 bucks.
I gave that 700 bucks to him.
He gave it to his wife, and theyhad the little baby girl.
So I'm in the RPF.
I I don't have enough money toget a bar of soap.
I don't, I can't, I can't.
I'm running, you know, past alittle vending machine looking
at the candy bars and the chips.
I'm not gonna get I'm notgetting none of that.

(44:41):
I mean, I did my laundry with abar of soap I found, and in the
shower when I did my body, andthen you know, luckily in Los
Angeles the clothes dry quickbecause it would have to dry on
me.

SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
I was like, I was Did you where were you?
I was taking a shower.
I thought you said you weredoing your laundry.
I did both.
Very official, very official.
I didn't even take the clothesoff.
I washed them on me.
Just take a shower with yourclothes on.
Laundry and a shower.
That's a sea org.
That's a sea org shower.

(45:14):
You know how they have a Floridashower is when you just go in
the ocean or a pool.
That's a Sea org shower when youdo your do your laundry and take
a shower.
Oh my god.
So how long did so how long didthe the the stint in the LA RPF
go for?

SPEAKER_02 (45:31):
All right, so let's see.
Um I I'm doing good in the RPF,blah, blah, blah.
And I eventually become uh incharge of all the production.
Like they have the bosun andthey have one guy, a deputy
bosun for for decks, which islike the work you do.
Yeah.
And they have a deputy bosun fortech, which is all the study
time and ordering.
Yeah.
So I become the deputy bosun forthe decks.

SPEAKER_01 (45:53):
Okay, because you're basically the mover and shaker
getting stuff done on the decks.
Exactly.
So now you're now within theRPF, you're basically like like
w one or two rungs from the topguy.

SPEAKER_02 (46:07):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (46:08):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
And then pretty soon I become the top guy.
I become the RPC.

SPEAKER_01 (46:11):
You become the bosun?

SPEAKER_02 (46:13):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
Here's the deal.
Check this out.

SPEAKER_01 (46:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:16):
You're supposed to have a person outside the RPF
called the RPF IC who's like thebuffer between all the other
organizations and the RPF.

SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
Yeah, because everybody wants these guys to do
their work.

SPEAKER_02 (46:26):
Exactly.
So we didn't have an RPF IC.
So it was just there was nobuffer between all this
workforce and all thesedifferent organizations who want
that need personnel and needthings done.
So we had, I I had uh some guyswere building furniture for
Religious Technical Center, RTC.

SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Um I had guys that would go and work on Ellerich's
books getting published.
They would go out in the morningin suits.
I had guys that were going anddoing uh that were doing all the
input for the for the one of thelegal trials.
Like I had another dozen guysthat did that.

SPEAKER_01 (47:01):
Doing transcribing into the Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (47:04):
And there was other people that were non-CORG,
non-scientists that were doingthe same job in the same room.
So they had to do that.
With the RPFers.
Yes.
So they had to.

SPEAKER_01 (47:12):
So they were just a catch-all for everything,
everything.
Any work that needs to get donein the pack base, you basically
the RPF does it.
If it you if you can't, youdon't have any people, none of
these organizations have anypeople to do other things
besides what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 (47:30):
And Gold was using them as an external logistics
unit.
They had cars, phones, dressednice, and they were driving
around Los Angeles on the RPF.
Yes.
What?
The logistics, all the stuffthat was needed in order to do
the music studio that I got sentout of there for saying we
couldn't get it done.

SPEAKER_01 (47:50):
Oh, so by the way, spoiler alert, Al Ron Hubbard
never went back there.
Matt was right.

SPEAKER_02 (47:57):
In '83, Matt knew what time it was.
And then when in the morning,when I line up the RPF in the
morning, it looked like I wasrunning some kind of uh uh uh
school for for engineers orsomething like that.
Everybody had nice clothes,suits, all this kind of stuff.
Nobody was dressed in theirblack, crappy clothes.
I could I have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (48:16):
Well, because they gotta go, they gotta go mingle
and they gotta be around normalfolk.
They can't be dressing like thataround the normal folk.

SPEAKER_02 (48:23):
They're over there working inside ASI, which is
where all the the publishingwork for L.
Ron Hubbard's books and andliterary stuff.
So they they they've been boughtnice clothes to wear and stuff.
And yeah, I mean, if any of myguys were gonna be late to work,
I'd have to get on the phone andcall some senior executive and
say, I'm sorry, you know, theywere they were late on the bus
or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (48:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:43):
If if uh one of them decided to leave the RPF or
something, I was getting demandto replace them.
Really?
I was getting the guy graduated.

SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
No, man, you need to send somebody else over here and
do it.

SPEAKER_02 (48:56):
He was our best worker.
We had seven guys yesterday.
I don't care what your problemis, I want seven guys today.
We're the highest executives onthe freaking planet, right?
You know what I did.

SPEAKER_01 (49:07):
I got the case.
So crazy.
We're gonna go, we're gonna showthe issue after Matt's told
this.
I'm gonna show some specificthings, and you'll see how, like
I said earlier, Al Ron Hubbardwrites this thing.
It's basically, it's just abasically a disposable
workforce.
That's what it is.
At the end of the day, if youneed something done, these guys

(49:29):
have got to do this.
Um, anyway, keep going becauseI'm gonna I do have a point.

SPEAKER_02 (49:33):
I got this routing form called, you know, a routing
form that sends people to theRPF.
Well, I I make copies and put itin all the offices where they do
the ethics for the differentorganizations so they could
quickly route somebody to theRPF.

SPEAKER_01 (49:47):
So you can get some more workflows.

SPEAKER_02 (49:49):
Yes, I had I had to get people to keep up with the
personnel demands, literally.
And if they got some guy who wassupposed to go to the RPF and he
didn't want to go, they wouldcall me.
I'd run over there and sell theguy on why he should do the RPF.
I mean Okay, let me put thisback up here.

SPEAKER_01 (50:07):
Yeah, okay.
Um it's on page 13.
Let me see, it's the next page.
So it says RPF products.
The products of the RPF areorderly, clean, shining base
spaces, and two is graduated RPFreleases.
So that basically means thattheir statistic is orderly clean

(50:27):
shining spaces, um, and it'ssquare paces, so it's basically
square feet of so if it ifyou're doing the grounds, then
all you have to measure all thelawn, right?
And that's your square paces forgrants.
Yeah, the parking lot.

SPEAKER_02 (50:45):
And so if you go out there and you sweep, you can get
your stats up that way.
But we weren't doing that shit.
We were we were doing posts.
We we had real jobs inside theSea Org.

SPEAKER_01 (50:53):
Yeah, you know, it was that's crazy.
Um let me just I'm gonna turnyou up just a little bit.
Somebody said they there we go.
Um okay, and so it's uh squarepaces of clean, and then number
of RPS RPF releases graduatedminus any falsely reported
release or unsalvageable RPFmember.

(51:17):
Wow.
Okay, so I guess if that meansit's somebody, oh, and then
there's an RPF MA, and butbasically their stats are you've
gotta get new people into theRPF and you've got to do a lot
of work for this guy, the thebosun.
It this is his stat.

(51:38):
Number of people graduated andlike basically square paces.
So they're motivated to not onlykeep people there because they
can get one of the stats up,because as long as you're
getting one stat up, you'reokay.
If both stats are down, thenyou're gonna be on you're gonna

(52:00):
be in the RPF's RPF sooner orlater.

SPEAKER_02 (52:04):
Um, but yeah in the middle of this was the Portland
Crusade.

unknown (52:08):
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (52:09):
I think they caught place in Portland Wallersheim or
Christofferson, or are they thesame?
No, Christofferson.

SPEAKER_02 (52:19):
Wallersheim was right after that.
Yes, there was she didn't gether eyes vision better, and so
then she was awarded two and ahalf million or something like
that.
Yeah.
So in the middle of our studytime, Hebra comes in and he
says, you know, uh the church isunder attack, you know, they got
this one case that apparently wewere losing, and if we lose

(52:41):
that, it's gonna set aprecedent, or we're gonna it's
gonna be used to you know tototally you know demolish
Scientology.

SPEAKER_03 (52:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
So what we're gonna do, we're all gonna go to uh
Portland.
We're gonna jump on buses in thenext few hours.
We're all gonna go to Portland.

SPEAKER_01 (52:55):
This was in '84, right?

SPEAKER_02 (52:58):
Yeah, I believe it was 84.

SPEAKER_01 (52:59):
I mean, I was there.
I remember I was 84, 85.

SPEAKER_02 (53:03):
Might have been early 85, actually.

SPEAKER_01 (53:05):
Yeah, 85.
I was there in Portland.
I I went up on one of thosebuses with a bunch of RPFers.

SPEAKER_02 (53:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:14):
So basically, this this crusade, it was called the
Portland Crusade withinScientology.
But if you were a Scientologistanywhere in the United States,
it was expected that you travelto Portland to participate in
this.
Like basically, that it was likeif you don't come, there might
not be Scientology next week.

(53:35):
Right.
Like you got to be.

SPEAKER_02 (53:36):
It was international.
It wasn't just the UnitedStates.

SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
Well, no, but I'm saying there's no way you're not
going if you're in the UnitedStates.
Right.
And then there were people thatcame over from Europe and uh,
you know, Denmark and UK and allthat other happy hoo.

unknown (53:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:50):
Yeah.
So basically the entire RPF,obviously, you're not studying,
but you're now in a differentstate.
Okay.
And you what you guys arebuilding stages and what were
you doing?

SPEAKER_02 (54:04):
A little bit of everything.
I got uh as the bosun, myselfand Bill Dendew, we got flown on
an airplane up there to getahead of the RPF that's going to
go there on bus.

SPEAKER_01 (54:13):
Bill Dendew was in international management, right?
Or was what was his what was hisjob?

SPEAKER_02 (54:18):
He had been WDC uh for gold at one point.
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (54:23):
But he was basically but he's a mover and sacred guy
that is gets to get stuff done.

SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
Big time.

SPEAKER_01 (54:30):
So he went to you and the and and or he basically
was like, we need the R Hebersaid you guys gotta come and
then um and then he was mydeputy.
He was the deputy uh Bill isbasically running all the stuff
that you guys are setting upthere.

SPEAKER_02 (54:45):
Yeah, we get sent up there.
We're in we get pulled into anoffice where they got
miscavige's main guys and stufflike that.
And uh uh Miscavige calls in andhe wants to have some what's the
bright ideas?
What are we gonna do with allthese people?
And everybody kind of you knowdoesn't say anything for a few
seconds, which seems like abouta year.
And then Bill Dando's like,well, we could do this, we can

(55:06):
do that.
He he was the bright idea guy.

SPEAKER_01 (55:08):
So like, oh, we need to go march from this park to
this place or set up a stagehere in the water.

SPEAKER_02 (55:23):
So that would happen.
And my job was to make makehappen what he was his plan was
like to back him up on that.
They wound up putting me and himinto a uh hotel room next to
Heber in some like four-starhotel.

SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
We had this big uh office with you know with TV in
the bathroom and marble and youknow, folds in the Sea Org
members, RPFers living the liferight now.

SPEAKER_02 (55:49):
Yeah, we had a Randville car, they got suits
for us.
It was like the movie 48 hoursto us, right?

SPEAKER_01 (55:58):
You know, during the Portland Crusade, I was a little
kid.
Yeah, um, I think I was, I wantto say I was like uh like 10 or
11 when this happened.
And um, when I got up there, Itook a bus.
Uh my family weren't even withme.
I just was my mom said, Hey, yougotta go to Portland.
You're gonna hang out with thesepeople.
And I just got on the bus andwent up there.

(56:18):
But um, as soon as I got there,they were like, Hey, can you
work a walkie-talkie?
I was like, Yep.
And they're like, Okay, good.
You're gonna sit in this car,and it was a Lincolntown car.
And I want to say even thedriver was an RPF.
Right.
And um, he was like, You'regonna, um, they're gonna tell us

(56:39):
where we need to go, and you'rejust gonna tell me, but because
I can't drive and work the radioand all that, and be taking care
of whoever we're driving around.
And um, I was like, okay, it wasthe easiest job in the world.
They just sat in the front seat.
But um, the person we drovearound the most was John
Travolta when he was there.
And so they literally were JohnTravolta's in the backseat, and

(57:02):
they're like, Okay, this isyou're gonna go to this street
and this street.
And I was like, Okay, 10-4.
And then I tell the dude, youknow, where we need to take John
Travolta.
And then that's pretty much hiscar keys.

SPEAKER_02 (57:12):
I was driving his Mustang around portaling.

SPEAKER_01 (57:15):
You were, yes.
JT's Mustang?
Yes.
Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 (57:21):
I mean, I mean, when the when the RPF got there, I
lined them up and I said,listen, okay, you guys are for
now, you're not in the RPF.
You don't have to run, you don'thave to call anybody, sir.
You're gonna be given jobs, youdo those jobs good, and it'll
reflect good on you and the RPF,and you know, hopefully it'll
help you guys get out of herefaster.

SPEAKER_03 (57:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (57:40):
And I said, okay, you know, you guys, some guys
were gonna do the PR where theywould get suits and they'd be
talking to different media totry to get the message out from
the Scientology message.
Other guys, like you say, weredoing radios, other guys were
doing building sets and andthings like that.
Everybody got their job.
They got new people who weregonna run them.
They were no longer part of theRPF until this was over.

(58:01):
Although, as RPFs, we'd keep aneye out for each other.
Yeah, and that's one down.
That's what went down.

SPEAKER_01 (58:07):
Wow, that's so crazy.
Did you have any guys skedaddlewhile you guys were up there?
Nope.

SPEAKER_02 (58:11):
Nope, nope.
Nobody blew?
Nobody blew.
Nobody, nobody got in trouble,nobody did anything weird.
Everybody did what they weresupposed to do.
It was amazing because they hadall that freedom and they still
nobody did anything weird.

SPEAKER_01 (58:25):
Wow, that's so wild to me.

SPEAKER_02 (58:27):
Well, the average guy in the RPF at that time was
seven years, and then a lot ofthese guys had been executives
and you know, pretty much.
Yeah, they were hard, they werediapers.
Yeah, they these guys wouldn'tjust arrive last week or
something like that.
So they were they weredependable and they and they did
what they were supposed to do.
Wow.
When it was all over so crazy.
They got put into uh a wholeorganization to take on the next

(58:50):
uh the Wallersheim case.

SPEAKER_01 (58:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (58:53):
They they actually formed uh a crusade org.

SPEAKER_01 (58:56):
And that's and that that's the one that was in LA.

SPEAKER_02 (58:59):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (58:59):
So when Crusade Org put on that thing when you guys
did the the S spotlight in thesky and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (59:06):
Yep.
So a whole bunch of the RPF gotreprieved, canceled.
You're no longer in RPF, or nowyou're gonna go over and work in
uh this crusade org.

SPEAKER_03 (59:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (59:15):
So that you know, because you guys have been
successful, blah, blah, blah.
So that was happening.
Wow.
I got told our uh one of uh Ms.
Gavage's guys came and saw meand said, Well, you know, you're
doing really good.
We see that, we appreciate that,but we're not gonna let you off
the RPF at this time.
You need to complete the RPF,right?
Because you're almost doneanyway.
So we're gonna put you on fulltime.

(59:36):
Okay.
So I want to full time and uhyou know get off the RPF.

SPEAKER_01 (59:39):
But and then where did you go after you got off the
RPF?

SPEAKER_02 (59:43):
Okay, so now uh right before that happened, I
hadn't gotten paid the wholetime for over a year.
And I was uh doing some littlesome work where the uh guy that
was in charge of estates in PACwas talking to me.
He said, uh he said, Hey, howare you doing on your program?
I said, Oh, I'm almost done, youknow.
And uh he says, Well, what doyou where are you going after

(01:00:04):
you get out of here?
And I said, You know, I don't Idon't even have an organization.
Nobody's paid me for the wholetime I've been here.
I said, but I'll tell you what,I said, if you pay me, when I
get out of here, I'll work foryou, I'll go to your
organization.
So he's like, Oh, great, youknow.
So I started getting pay, whichwas whatever it was.
So it was a quarter pay of$17.
So I was getting, I don't know,four bucks, which felt like I
was like, you know, raising.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:24):
Yeah, that's right.
We didn't show that, but in thatissue, our PFers are supposed to
get quarter pay.
So if you're making everybodyelse is making$30, you're making
$7.50.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:34):
Yeah.
I think they were making$17.35at that time, full pay.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:38):
So that was Sea Org full pay with$17.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:42):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:42):
Now, guys, anybody who's listening, I'm talking
about an hour.
$17.35 a week for a good Sea Orgmember.
Yeah, that's$120 hours a week,$17.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:02):
And if you're an RPF or you get like$4 in change.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:05):
Somebody this person said this person says our Sea
Org wages taxed?
Damn straight, Skippy.
They're taxed.
Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:18):
Okay, so it's technically about earning social
security when you're in the SeaOrg.
Oh my goodness.
I think my Social Security owethem money.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:28):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
So yeah, Social Security, like,hey dude.
Uh I know you've been working alot, but 18 cents a week's not
going to really build up yourretirement fund.
Oh, man.
Okay, so then you so then youend up you so you basically stay

(01:01:49):
in LA.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:50):
Yeah, what happens is um gold at that point says,
oh, we're taking this guybecause we we're gonna do it,
we're gonna trade him as a it'scalled a coin.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:58):
When when you're in the C org and you graduate the
EPF or the RPF, um you areyou're a coin and you can be
traded with anotherorganization.
And sometimes if something gotsomebody really wants somebody,
they'll be like, we want twopeople.
We want like it's basicallyhorse trading within the C org

(01:02:19):
bases.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:19):
Yep.
And they might trade you toanother continent.
Yeah, oh yeah, you could goanywhere.
Yeah, you get separated.
They don't really care.
It's not, you know, it's notthat concerned at that point.
So anyway, they're trying tothey did some kind of trade with
the advanced organization in LosAngeles, and I'm supposed to go
there.
And I'm like, no, I don't give ashit what you worked out.
I'm going to where I promised Iwas gonna go.

(01:02:41):
I'm going to estates.
Yeah.
So I go to Estates and I getimmediately put on a uh a
mission, like a special, youknow, to give you something
you're supposed to accomplish inthat's got certain steps, blah,
blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:54):
Well, I'm gonna uh it's so funny you say that,
Matt, because yeah, that isalmost always when someone
graduates the RPF, a ton oftimes they put them on missions
because they if they if theywant to do a mission in the C
org is when you send a projectout to somebody to handle a
specific thing.

(01:03:14):
If you're the mission person andyou're trying to group get these
people together, you have toreplace them.
Right.
So as soon as somebody pops upon the radar, it's like, I
understand you're gonna go here,that's fine, but I need you to
do this real quick before you goover there.
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:31):
You're small that can be plugged in somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:34):
That's right.
You're basically a coin thatcould do this, but then when
you're done, you can go to backto that organization.
But the crazy thing is, is ifthat mission goes sideways, you
can end up right back on theRPM.
Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:51):
And so I get sent to do the mission to uh I get sent
on three missions in a row, andit has to do with Celebrity
Center International and themanor that whole building on
doing all the pre-planning ondoing that whole project to turn
it from a hotel that they ownedinto an actual C org
organization and a hotel and allthese other things.

(01:04:12):
Yeah, how to fix the buildingup, and you know, what's the
history of the building?
And I did all the the plans andI did all the uh elevations
showing you know the wholeproperty and what heights and
every plant and major tree andeverything on the property, and
you know, all the systems, theconcrete, the roof, the all that
stuff.
And and I did a whole detailedwrite-up on all that stuff, and

(01:04:33):
what should be done with each ofthose things.
And you know, I was on it formonths, and it all got approved
by uh by uh the LH architect,which was Barry.
Which was Barry, and and so thatall got done.
Oh, and then my wife, who wasworking at Flag, because they
intentionally separated usbecause she had been where I was

(01:04:55):
gonna go in Los Angeles, butwhen I was gonna go to Los
Angeles, then they shifted itback over to Florida so that we
would be separated as anotherthank you to me.
And so my wife Thanks for allyour hard work, and now we're
gonna see your wife again.
That's right.
If we can help it, you will notever see your wife again.
So, anyway, my wife writes toMiscavige and says, Um, I found

(01:05:16):
a person here that's doing arenovation, running the
renovations in Florida who wantsto go to Los Angeles, and I want
to get you to approve them to doa trade.
Well, one goes one way, one goesthe other, and it's good for
everybody, blah, blah, blah,because he's got wife in one
location, you know, how that'sgonna work.
Yeah.
So miscavige gets this petition,and being miscavage, he can't
just say yes.

(01:05:37):
He he does his whole rightwrite-up about how um that if I
could get the following thingsdone by Christmas, which was
only like two or three weeksaway, then I would it would be
approved.
So the list was like I have towater blast the entire exterior

(01:05:57):
of the complex, replaced 165.
Broken windows, um put uhlighting on top of the complex
with the and uh shine up thatcross.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:06):
The building Matt's talking about is that big blue
building in in Los Angeles thathas the huge Scientology sign
over it.
That was known as the complex orBig Blue.
So you had to fix basically regive Big Blue a facelift right
before Christmas.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:23):
Yes, trim all the palm trees and and uh and uh put
in the irrigation system and putin a Christmas tree and a and a
new receptionist and then allthe marbled walls of the uh
inside the hospital that had allthe sucked up the uh all the
orals over the years.
All back to you know, originalbeautiful marble and shrimp.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:43):
So that's what that renovation was all about when
that all this stuff happened?

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:47):
Yes.
So he he writes I remember thatwhen that happened.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:50):
I was there on course every night.
I remember all that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:53):
Yeah.
So he when Miscavige wrote it,he calls the horseshoe where the
amos used to drive in.
He calls it the horseshit,right?
And he he writes this wholething, but real derogatory about
the whole pack base.
So I take this thing and I go tothe coordination council, which
is all the commanding officersof each of the organizations,
they have a meeting every day.
So I walk in there.

(01:07:13):
This is their base, you know.
I've just got off the RPF.
This is your problem, guys.
I walk in there and I read thisthing.
And I said, listen, if you giveme uh two RPF sections, and you
give the logistics for this, andyou the money for it, and you
give me uh uh your two of theengineers and one guy in

(01:07:34):
logistics, I said, I'll get allthis done.
And they said fine, and theydid.
They gave me all that stuff, andwe brought brought in an outside
company with these big cranesand the fire hoses, and you
know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:47):
That's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:48):
It was a lot, and we got it all done.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:51):
And then you got to go to Florida?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:53):
Yep.
Christmas Eve, I was in Floridawith my wife.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:57):
I was done.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:58):
I was done with Los Angeles, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:00):
Wow, what a burn.
See, that's the thing I likewhen David Miscavige tries to
kind of screw somebody with animpossible.
Yes, it's just pie in the sky.
You know, there's no way to dothat.
Right.
And then you do it, and it'sjust like everybody's like, ooh,
sick burn.
He did it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:19):
He did it.
Yeah, he never intended me to beable to do it.
It was just kind of like anotherkick in the nuts, but it I got
it done.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:26):
Wow.
I think we have to do I think wehave to do more episodes where
we just tell crazy RPF storiesbecause you have so many good
stories.
But I did want to go, um, it'swe were a little bit over our
time, but I just still want tojust kind of uh just so people
can see this, and you can alsofreeze frame the video if you
want to read all these things.

(01:08:47):
But this is all the statisticsof the RPF folks, and then it
shows what each person's job isand what they're supposed to do.
Um here's where it says you gotto go to five hours, daily
study, um, all of thesematerials are on how to do it.
And also, if you're um in theRPF, you have to do counseling

(01:09:10):
on this person to find all theirevil purposes, and they have to
do counseling on you to find allyour evil purposes.
But most of the time, the peoplethat are doing this, they're not
trained or or they don't knowhow to do any of this stuff.
So you, as part of doing this,you have to figure out how to do
it and learn how to do thecounseling good enough so that

(01:09:32):
you can do what you're supposedto do with this person.
Um, this is where they talkabout all the studying and
everything.
Um, this is how the org boardworks.
Um this more study again.
Did I just did I do something?
I don't know.
Um what is a course?
They have to read all thesethings.

(01:09:52):
It looks like I'm in a I wentback and forth again.
RPF.
This is for the people that aregonna run all the counseling um
and all the different jobs thatthey need to be and all their
stuff.
Okay, graduation.
So the released RPF member doesnot graduate from the RPF until
he has made extra efforts toimprove the RPF, improve the

(01:10:14):
base, extra contribution is doneafter RPS, RPF release has been
attained.
Um, and all these differentthings on how it he the pe
people are supposed to, youknow, basically graduate and not
be on the RPF anymore.
And then all these other things,if you don't want to be there,

(01:10:36):
what do you all the proceduresyou have to do to get once you
get out, and if you're CSW,which is the the proposal to get
you off the RPF, if that getsapproved or disapproved.
Oh, this is another thing.
Whenever you're around the RPFand they're having like a muster
where everybody, after a meal,they gather everybody up to kind
of like, here's your marchingorders for the rest of the day.

(01:10:59):
The R they have to they have tochant this in unison, the whole
unit.
The RPF is what we make it, theRPF is where we make it.
And now, Matt, you gotta tellme, aren't there a bunch of like
those things, but they'rethey're both the but they're
like cheeky?
Aren't there some other sayingsthat the RPF was saying?

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:24):
Yeah, I mean, Bill Denny used to be a stand-up
comedian and uh before he was inthe in Scientology.
Yeah, so we had all kinds ofstupid, you know, he had all
kinds of stuff.
We would be doing exercise andhe would be calling out all
kinds of you know things justlike his thing, which would make
everybody crack up.
We kept it pretty light if wecould inside that place.
I mean, you gotta realize justas a thing, like we were

(01:11:48):
sleeping at night, you know, youhad like 60, 70 RPF as male and
female.
Some were old, some were asyoung as 13 years old.
We had a girl that was like 13years old in there.
And uh on the RPF.
On the RPF.
13-year-old girl.
Yep.
In in while sleeping together atnight.
There's a wall in between.

(01:12:09):
It's the course room that theyuse for the kids during the
daytime, across from where theyou know bridge used to be, the
the publications.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:16):
Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:17):
Right by the parking lot.
The Apollo thing or whatever itwas.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:20):
Yeah, yeah, that it has a parking lot in the front
of it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:23):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:23):
It's actually where one of the aftermath, that was
where the one of the aftermathbillboards were in LA was on
that property.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:30):
That's right.
That's right.
So inside there, there's onebathroom.
It's shared by male and female.
It's on the male side.
The guys were all sleeping.
All you get to sleep on is apiece of six foot by two foot by
two inch piece of foam.
When it gets given to you, youwrite your name on it with a
magic marker.
That stuff gets stuffed into acloset, uh, storage closet at

(01:12:51):
night.
In the dick, you know, uh, whenit's time to sleep, they pull
them out and call out the names,they pass that stuff out.
You grab yours, you put it onthe floor, and a linoleum floor,
hard floor, and you lay on that,and that's what you sleep on.
That's your bed.
Um that was that was RP.
That was the that was how weslept.

(01:13:11):
That was birthing for us.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:13):
Um unbelievable.
And this is what I wanted to getat least to the the end of this
document because this is youyou've just heard this is just
everyday RPF.
This is not the we're nottalking about wild RPF stories.
We're just talking about RPFstories, um, the amount of work

(01:13:35):
and all that good stuff.
And they have this thing, and itsays the personal rights of an
RPF, personal rights of an RPFmember are.
And then he starts listing allthese things full Scientology
justice, right to insist onbeing allowed to complete a
cycle of action, pay, normalmeals, study time, all these

(01:14:01):
things.
I would say 30 minutesundisturbed time for each meal,
to make adequate progressdetermined by his own impulses
to get fully cleaned up andreleased.
You know, this the RPF membersare not getting 90% of these
things.
They're not having normal meals.

(01:14:22):
They're eating the leftoversfrom the main crew that just
came through and ate.
They're eating their leftovers.
And the RPF's RPF eats thoseguys' leftovers.
Um, you're not getting paid.
You're not going to you're doingyour your co-audit or your stud
five-hour study.
Is that what it says, right?

(01:14:43):
Five-hour study co-audit perday.
Um you're not gettingopportunity to voice genuine
grievances.
Oh, yeah.
It's this is ridiculous that anyof these things.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:56):
Yeah, it's just it's pie in the sky.
And this isn't just RPF numberone for me.
This is not even the second RPF.
This is we're still on the firstRPF.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:03):
Well, let me just tell let me just cover this.
This is the restrictions andpenalties of the RPF member.
Okay, they enter the RPF in acondition not higher than
liability to the C org.
So in Scientology, we have thesethings called, yeah, these they
have these things calledconditions.

(01:15:24):
And lower conditions areliability and down.
And so it's it's a bad thing inScientology.
Um, he has no liberties, so youdon't get any days off.
That's not a thing.
Um, they're restricted to aspecific building.
At the time of this, this is inClearwater, where this is

(01:15:45):
happening, and it says they'rerestricted to the F, which is
the Fort Harrison, the bighotel.
Um, that used to be one of fewproperties they had there when
this was written.
They didn't have 2,000properties like they do now,
whatever it is.
Um, oh, missed one.
Uh receives quarter pay untilreleased and then half pay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:08):
Um that's quarter pay of whatever the staff got,
which might have been no pay.
Oh, they might have got it onquarter pay, so now you're on
the 16th day.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:15):
Right.
That's true.
If nobody gets paid, you get aquarter of nothing.
Um is birthed only in a spacewhich is isolated from the rest
and is only for the RPF.
So if you're married, you're notgoing back to your dorm or your
your your the birthing that youhave with your spouse.

(01:16:37):
You're you're sleeping with therest of the RPFers.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:41):
Um for 10 years or more, which many of them are.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:44):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:44):
You don't get you don't get to touch your wife
during the whole time or yourchildren.

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:48):
Yeah.
May not speak to or approachFlagstaff or public or outside
public unless spoken to.
So you're not allowed tooriginate a communication.
You are only allowed to answerif they ask you.
Like if you're trimming treesand somebody says, Hey, where do
I go?

(01:17:09):
You can answer them and then goright back to trimming trees.
And you're not you're notgetting into a whole convo with
somebody walking down thestreet.
It says some contact with aspouse or child is permitted
during the RPFer's meal time orsecuring time once daily if an
RPS of if the RPFer is upset.

(01:17:30):
I never saw this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:32):
That got canceled early on.
Yeah.
That never happened.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:35):
Um, and then penalties for violating any of
these things.
Um that's another thing.
There used to be a thing in theSea Org in Los Angeles that was
called family time.

unknown (01:17:48):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:17:49):
And some C org members in uh in a in a short
period during the 1980s wereallowed to basically write
before dinner or during dinneror after dinner, they could see
their kids for a few seconds.
Um I think it was like a halfhour, 45 minutes or something,
and then you had to go back towork.
And David Miscavige canceledfamily time in the in the I

(01:18:13):
think mid to late 80s.
He said family time is canceled.
There's no policy that says thatC org members need to spend time
with their other their other SeaOrg family members.
That's not a thing anymore.
Um and I want to say thatwhenever that got canceled, then
this would obviously not be youwouldn't be seeing anything.

(01:18:33):
But the thing that kind of drewmy attention, it says in the
case of a preschool child,contact is allowed more than
once daily during meal times,and the schedule is to be worked
out with the RPF MAA.
This is another thing where Inever saw this in in in action.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:51):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (01:18:52):
Um, has ranker rating suspended?
Has meals available after flagcrew have been served?
So if there's 150 hot dogs andthere's 147 flag crew and three
of those people don't have asecond one, there ain't no hot
dogs left over.
You're eating buns or chili orwhatever was served with the hot

(01:19:15):
dogs.
Yep.
Um or whatever they can,whatever the galley, the people
that are serving all the crew.
Sometimes sometimes they'll putout trays of stuff like here,
make something yourself if youwant to eat.
Here's the stuff to makesomething.
Um RPF mess to be included inthe septic.

(01:19:37):
Okay, so they have their ownplace, may not attend crew
parties or hold their own, maynot attend other crew or public
events except by arrangement, isdenied canteen privileges, but
may use vending machines onground floor breezeway, receives
mimeo ouds, these are justorders of the day, like they go

(01:19:57):
out to all the crew, receivesmimeo ouds and such F flag,
these are just different C orgum like directives and briefings
and stuff that goes out to C orgmembers.
Um, HDLBs, executive directives,etc., as may directly apply to
the RPF and its tech unit, hasno uniform except boiler suit or

(01:20:19):
approved cleaning uniforms, maynot enter staff or public areas
or elevator except whenunassigned cleaning duties, may
not use the swimming pool at anytime.
Again, this is all at the FortHarrison Hotel in Clearwater,
that that this is what all thesethings are referring to, must
suffer additional time in theRPF if sentenced to it for a

(01:20:41):
violation of reg regulations,failure to produce excessive
natter, refusal to come clean,or on any other offense as
assigned by the RPF bosun or MAAor duly convened court or CamEv.
So basically, if you got introuble, really bad trouble, and
that's how you ended up on theRPF, you get additional time in

(01:21:03):
the RPF because of that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:04):
Yep, tag on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:06):
What are they calling it?

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:08):
Yeah, if they finish you ten years, like oh, we're
gonna have to tag on six months.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:13):
That and that's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:16):
It is for this thing, but it didn't date then.
I mean, oh I was gonna sayanybody ever got out of that
thing.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:21):
I mean Yeah, they're there for seven years.
Is that enough for what?
So I that's another goodquestion.
Well, I'll just real quick.
So the there was a guy, myfriend's dad, um, who was in
finance, international finance,um, David Miscavige ordered him
to sell all of the gold that thechurch held in an investment.

(01:21:44):
They had tons and tons of gold,literally tons and tons of gold.
And um, and it was like it was II want to say it was like$300
and it went down to like$250 oryou know, it was a major crash.
And David Miscavige ordered thisguy to sell all of their gold
off, get get out of the gold.

(01:22:05):
We're gonna lose our lose ourasses on gold.
And the guy was like, no way,dude.
Gold's like gold's gonna be it'sgonna be in three thousands
sooner or later.
We're not getting rid of thegold.
Anyway, then it went down tolike 200 or it crashed again.
I don't even remember what thefigures were, but it crashed
again.
And then at an in financemeeting, David Miscavige goes,

(01:22:26):
Yeah, aren't you guys glad Itold you to sell all that gold?
And then this dude was like, uh,sir, we never sold that gold.
So he went to the RPF.
Well, this was at really, I wantto say, a few years into me
being at the imp base.
When I escaped in 2005, hisfather was still on the RPF.

(01:22:49):
He had been on the RPF for like10 years.
Um, so the all this nonsensecould go on for 10 years.
Especially if David Miscavigeassigns you to it, because then
it's basically like when you go,the RPF gets told David
Miscavige, chairman of theboard, wants this is the one who

(01:23:13):
assigned this person to the RPF.
So then they really get uh thehot poker treatment.
Um okay, so suffer dental time.
Um if they refuse the RPF, thenthat's a whole nother thing.
Um if dismissed from the SeaOrg, has no laundry services,
and the RPF must do its ownlaundry, has to use or bathe the

(01:23:37):
water closet facilities only asdead as designated for the RPF.
Um dismissed from the Sea Org,okay, da da has to use yeah,
okay, by the designated, okay,may not have with them in in the
RPF any drugs or alcoholicbeverages, radios, TV, taped
music, musical instruments,chess games, or any such

(01:24:01):
entertainment or luxury, orconsume such when on authorized
visits to a spouse or child.
So basically, anything that'sfun in your life, we're sucking
that out of your life.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:15):
You got a picture of your family, it'll be taken
away.
You got a picture of your kidsor your wife, it'll be taken
away.
They search your your whateveryou come in with to make sure
you don't have something likethat.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:25):
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24:26):
No, you're stripped.
You're trying to, you're likementally being stripped to the
to the ground.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:31):
Yeah, I'm just skimming through these things.
It's just all um, they have todo Chinese school, that thing
that we were talking about.
They have to do that on all theon different flag orders, they
have to chant those and learnthem.
Um God, this is things 13 pages.
Um I'm just gonna skim throughthese.
Any a person unduly long on theRPF or who shows repeated

(01:24:56):
evidence of not actively workingtowards redemption should be
fitness boarded per fitnessboard policies.
So that basically means if theydon't think that you like if the
pro reprogramming is notworking, then they're just gonna
get rid of you because they'relike, we can't if this guy's not
taken the reprogramming.
Now, this is a the this is theultimate irony of the ultimate

(01:25:20):
irony.
Okay, so this is actuallywritten, or well, this person
revised it.
So there might have been anotherthe this policy might have been
written before, and then thisperson went through and updated
it for now that we're on land,the Sea Org is on land, updated
it for that.
But it was done by Ensign.

(01:25:43):
It was a mission, right?
Revised by FMO, so that's a flagmission air order 1672.
Ensign, Susan Walker, IC, andLieutenant JG, Art Webb, second.
And then it was re-revised bysome Commodore Messenger and
then approved by L.
Run Hubbard.
When I was in the Cine divisionin Golden Air Productions, the

(01:26:07):
RPF worked for us, and one ofour best backdrop um painters,
and she was a really goodseamstress, her name was Sue
Walker, and she was on the RPF.
She's the one who went andrevised this whole thing, and
then she ends up on the RPF.
At the end base, no one wassacred.

(01:26:30):
Anybody could go onto the RPF,basically.
I mean, Mark Yeager was secondin command, basically, or he
wasn't CMO and then he was inRTC, and he went to the R like
his own personal RPF.
You still there?
Did you freeze?

SPEAKER_02 (01:26:50):
I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:50):
Oh, you you were just so still, I I thought you
froze.

SPEAKER_02 (01:26:54):
Um anyway, I was thinking of some of this stuff,
you know, I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:26:58):
Yeah, right.
So I think what we should dobecause how many times is Amy on
the RPF?
Wasn't Amy on the RPF a bunchtoo?
Like four times.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:07):
She might be the only one that went more times
than me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:10):
I think she was on the RPF like four times.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:13):
Yeah, she was on the RPF four times.

SPEAKER_01 (01:27:15):
Somebody said Suzette Hubbard.
Oh, I don't it just says SuzetteHubbard.
I don't know if that meanssomebody if she got assigned to
the RPF, if they're saying that.
Um Yeah, so what I think weshould do, I think we should
just do like our we should do afew more videos of just RPF
stories.

(01:27:35):
Now that we've kind of explainedwhat it is, like I said, we went
we showed every page.
So if somebody wants to freezethis video and read all of the
things, it's it's it's a lot ofpages of insanity.
I think it's it was like fifteenpages in the end.
Let me see how where I go to theend here.
Fourteen thirteen fourteen.

(01:27:58):
It's fourteen pages.
Of all of the nonsense that isthe RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:04):
Yeah, what's supposed to be the RPF?

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:06):
What's supposed to be the RPF?

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:07):
It's non-applicable nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:10):
Yeah, it basically is very similar to everything
else in the Sea Org and inScientology.
Al Ron Hubbard says this is howthis is going to go.
And then Scientology and the Corg, they maximize it to the
what that to make the mostmoney, basically.
Whatever is going to make usmore money and get more stuff

(01:28:32):
done and make our propertiesnicer, which increases the
value, which increases ourinvestment.
All these things, it's themoney, the money, the money, the
money, the money.
And so that's why Seorg membersaren't going to study.
RPFers aren't going to study.
People are not being paid, notbeing fed.
Whatever we can, however, we cansqueeze the rock as much as we

(01:28:54):
can without having to doanything, we're going to get it.
And the thing that was crazywhen I was reading through this,
Matt, is they're already justcrunching Sea Org members on the
norm.
Everybody else is working100-120 hours a week without any
all-nighters, if that's how muchto work in.

(01:29:14):
And they're already not gettingpaid.
They're only getting paid, youknow,$45 a week.
And then you realize in each SeaOrg continent for decades and
decades, there's another groupof Sea Org members that are
getting it even worse.
They're just being, they'reworking more, they're being paid
less, they're being fed less.

(01:29:34):
They're just like, they'rereally squeezing those guys.
And you wonder why there's moreex-scientologists than there are
Scientologists.
It's because they're just,they're basically just like
stealing people's existence andthen spitting them out when they
won't, you know, keep keep doingwhat they want them to do.

(01:29:55):
Wasn't there a time when I wantto say in the either the late
1990s or the early 2000s, thePAC RPF, the Pacific Area Crew,
um, the big blue buildings andthat big uh complex of
Scientology organizations in LosAngeles, they had like a 350 or

(01:30:18):
400-man RPF.
They were they were one of thelargest sea org orgs in the
world.
They I think only gold wasbigger than them, and and maybe
I want to say FSO.
I think FSO has hundreds andhundreds of people.

(01:30:38):
I think it was FSO Gold and thenthe the PAC RPF.
I mean, that's a lot of peopledoing the RPF in one place.
Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:50):
Yeah, 1978.
There was this thing about uh itsays if you rock slam, you go to
the RPF.
Oh, yeah.
Apparently there was someconfusion on what a rock slam
was, and they had problems withthe e-meters.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:02):
I was gonna say there was a ton of bad e-meters
because the because at gold,well, they used to make them in
LA in the building where um Ithink that's where actually
where Bruce or OT Techie, Ithink that's where he worked,
was in the e-meter land, andthere was some screw up with the
potentiometers or the dials orsomething they were using, and

(01:31:25):
they were intermittent, and anintermittent signal in that
thing looks just like a rungslam.
And so there was hundreds andhundreds of people going to the
RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (01:31:34):
That's right.
I mean, they there was likedozens a day were going.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:37):
It was like the place was like they have all
these meters that are faulty andthey're using them, and
everybody they put on the meteris an and they're like, You gets
to go.
You gets to go.
You get to get any kind ofordering at all because you're
just no scans.
People are like, hey, maybecheck this thing.
This thing's this thing, thisone right here is a hundred

(01:32:00):
percent RPF.
It's everyone who gets on itgets to go.
That one over there, it's aboutone out of ten.
So I want to get on that one.
Increase my chances of notgoing.
Holy moly, yeah.
And and it was what it was evenreferred to in Scientology
policies and sort of folklore aslike the the rocks, uh like the

(01:32:25):
RSer thing, or what was it, whatdo they call that?
Period.

unknown (01:32:30):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:32):
It was called like something when that happened.
Everybody would for oh, that wasthe 80 Rock Slam, the 80s Rock
Slam thing, you know, orsomething like that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:40):
Yeah.
What I thought was crazy wasthat the RPF where Hubbard was
running the shoe crew and allthat stuff at that time.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:48):
Prior to gold.
I mean, that grew up to like 80RPFs, and he was the CS on most
of those folders and stuff.
He knew these people.
How did how could he not haveseen the the how something had
to be wrong for 80 people to goto the RPF for rock slamming?
That's impossible.
But yet he worked these guys asa as a you know, to do all the

(01:33:09):
stuff like that.
Yeah, he was working these guysto build the sets and this and
that.
He's he let them be in the RPF.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I didn't know that wasbullshit.

SPEAKER_01 (01:33:18):
Yeah, there that's the other thing, is there's a
lot of bullshit that goes on,and everybody's like, well, is
this right?
You know, like should we weshould like like we should like
report this?
You know, we should write areport.
And some people are like, don'tdo that.

(01:33:39):
You think we're in trouble now,just start writing writing this
stuff down and documenting it,we're gonna be in a lot more
trouble.
As soon as you just it that thatwas another thing that happened
in the RPF, is like you're like,hey, you guys have got to get
these sets done, or you got toget these stages built because
the events on New Year's.
And if somebody pops theirlittle head up and is like, but

(01:34:01):
we're supposed to go to studythat you're counterintention,
your counterintention, you'retrying, you're anti, what do
they call it?
Uh you're not forwarding commandintention.
You know, all there's all thesethings that you're like, hey,
yeah, what about my study?
And it's like, now you'reworker-oriented and you're a

(01:34:23):
worker bee, and you're you're uhit's all it's you oh, first
dynamic oriented.
You're you're concentrating onyou, not on us.
Like what's good for the groupis good for the individual.
What's good for the individualis not necessarily what's good
for the group.
Right.
Insanity.
Yes.

(01:34:43):
Oh my God.
Well, thank you for joining metoday, Matt.
I definitely think um, well, letus know in the comments below,
guys, um, if you think um thatwe should just do RPF stories.
Because I mean, I don't I I'lljust tell you, Matt and I work
together, you know, a few weekshere and there throughout the

(01:35:05):
year on projects all around theUnited States.
And Matt has told you one onethousandth of the stories that
he has on the RPF.
And I didn't want to really talkabout those without kind of
telling you guys, showing youlike this is what Hubbard said
the RPF would be, and these aresome of the like the a lot of

(01:35:28):
people say, oh, we didn't get toeat on the RPF, or we didn't.
No, this is the policy that saysyou get leftovers from everybody
else, and you're getting quarterpay.
And this is what Scientologysays is the RPF.
And then we can talk about well,what really goes on on the RPF.
Do you mind hanging out?
We'll answer a few questionshere.

SPEAKER_02 (01:35:49):
No, I'll answer questions if you want.
I mean, I don't have my I don'thave my corner of this whole
subject.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:55):
Oh, yeah, no, we're literally this is the tippity
tippity tippity tip of theiceberg.
Um if you say question in yourquestion, um, then it'll
highlight it as a question.
Um, my my back, my uh behind thescenes team is not uh they
didn't star anything, so now I'mhaving to go through.

(01:36:18):
Um oh, this person said uh AmyMcAdams.
This is answer to the SuzetteHubbard thing.
It says, No, Mark, she wasbasically made a cleaning woman
after she told DM no and her dadpassed.
Oh, okay, so this is aboutSuzette Hubbard, uh Hubbard's
own daughter.
Um, yeah, that's another thing.
Um, you know, every singleperson in David Miscavige's

(01:36:42):
family that was in the Sea Orgwas declared a suppressive
person, um, kicked out of theSea Org, uh, you know, declared
an SP.
Um, every single person that wasrelated to Hubbard, except for
Diana Hubbard, one of hischildren, his wife went to jail

(01:37:04):
for him, fell on, fell on hersword for Hubbard.
Um, one of his sons committedsuicide, slash was assisted
somehow.
Um, all of these things, samething happened to Hubbard's
entire family.
Um, and that's not mentioningall the nonsense he had with his
first wife and his second wife,who he wasn't actually married

(01:37:26):
to because he was still marriedto his first wife.
Anyway, um, but um yeah, it'scraziness.
Um I don't see any questions.
I don't know if I'm uh lookingin the wrong place, but um
nobody's uh oh can if somebodygives me a link in the future I
can star stuff.
Yeah, see, to be fair, Iprobably um didn't send out the

(01:37:49):
link like Claire does because Ididn't know I had to send out a
link.
Um so that's a bummer.
So they can't star anything.
Um well just uh somebody saysyes, more RPF stories.
Okay, we'll do more.
Um hopefully Matt will join ussome more.
And then um uh I think I talkedto Amy about it and she she's

(01:38:12):
willing to do it too.
So and then anybody else, I meanI I don't know.
I'm trying to think if we know alot of other people that were on
the RPF that would also talkabout it.
I know lots of people that wereon the RPF, they're SEO members,
they're out, but um, but not alot of them want to even go.
Like, there's a lot of peoplethat are like, I don't even want

(01:38:33):
to talk about that.
I don't want to know about it, Idon't want to talk about it, I
don't want to don't say thewords, don't say the lingo.
And then some people are like,eh, if you talk about it, it it
won't be so bad.
Um that's more that's my that'smy thought process on it, is if
you talk, if you tell thestories um and you share the

(01:38:54):
experiences, they kind of haveless effect or they have less
weight on you.
That's how it works for me.
So that's why I do this.
Um, in addition to just tryingto get the word out.
Um, you know, there was this kidin um I don't remember the org,
somewhere over in uh I thinkit's in Scotland or England.

(01:39:15):
I'm not so good with all thatstuff.
I don't with what where the orgis.
Um, but this kid, he was talkingto Alex, uh apostate Alex, and
he was in, he was on staff atthe org, and he was doing videos
with Alex.
And um, and then uh he wrote tous as well.
He wrote to Claire and he wroteto me, and I said, uh, I've

(01:39:37):
already talked about a lot ofthis stuff.
Uh but I was thinking if he's inthe Sea Org, he's going to the
RPF, there's no way.
Um he wasn't in the I don'tthink he was in the Sea Org,
though, he was just staff.
So if you're if you're staff,you just get punished using
normal Scientology punishments.
If you're in the Sea Org, thenthere's a whole nother level up

(01:40:00):
on the punishments and the youknow the suffering that must be
done.
Um yeah, somebody says Amir wasstaff.
Hans Christian Swartz, thanksfor that.
Um anyway, he did anotherinterview with Amir, and Amir
basically, he's out, he's done.
Yeah, he got kicked outbasically.

(01:40:21):
He got they he they they theylit him up.
Um but um it was sillinessbecause the whole reason this
guy was like, hey, I want toknow what you guys are saying
because I don't know if it'strue, and what what are your
experiences?
He was basically just talkingwith people that had left and

(01:40:41):
like why'd you leave and whathappened?
And then he got kicked outbecause he was talking to people
who left.
So the whole policy ofdisconnection and siloing
people, and this the RPF is isthey're doing that within the C
org.
They're siloing these people, sothey can't um the it's kind of

(01:41:03):
like the first defense in theSea Org.
You've got somebody that's notthat's disaffected, that's what
they call it, or that doesn'twant to do what David Miscavige
wants us to do, or L.
Run Hubbard or whoever it was atthe time.
And it's the first line ofdefense, like, okay, we got to
silo these guys because they'regonna cause disruption in the

(01:41:23):
Sea Org.
And if people start agreeingwith them, then we're screwed.
We're gonna get, they're gonnathrow a, you know, they're gonna
revolt.
And then if you can't, if theycan't fix you with the RPF, then
the next step is you get kickedout or get declared a
suppressive person because theydon't want you doing that with
Scientologists either.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:44):
Right.
I mean, the key to any cult isthe in information control.
That's how they survive.
Yeah, and you see you know inthe Sea Org, if you were working
at gold and you were gonna go toFlag to do an event, they would
security check you before youleft and when you got back to
make sure you didn't talk toanybody about anything.
So there's no information beingleaked between different bases.

(01:42:05):
Yeah.
I used to say Los Angeles, theSea Org could not exist there,
and we in Florida would not knowabout it.
That's how much informationcontrol there is.
And then you got informationcontrol within the base itself,
from from like one unit to thenext or one division to the
next.
You can't talk about stuff.
It's all sectioned off, it's allinformation control.

(01:42:25):
And if somebody thinks they'regonna get smart and start like
asking too many questions ortalking about something, they're
done.
You know, it's a it's a shortride after that.
They're out of there.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:42:41):
Yeah, it's crazy, it's wild.
Anyway, um, we'll just go.
Let me just run through a fewthings here real quick and then
we'll end off.
Sorry for going so long, Matt.
I didn't realize it was gonnatake us.
Um Anita says hi from theNetherlands.
Um We got Bruce, hello fromNebraska.

(01:43:04):
I was on the RPF twice, onceended me at the end base, and
the other for being late tomuster.
It is in Mark's book.
Yeah, um, that is in my book.
Um pretty late in theNetherlands.
Okay, that's just these guystalking to each other.
Um oh look, Claire's in here.
Where did I I missed it?
Where'd it go?
Going Claire.

(01:43:26):
Hello, Claire.
Um, I think she's at theairport.
Um, good afternoon from Hemet,California.
Um, Wisconsin.
Um, Catherine says hi.
Happy Sunday from West Virginia.
Um Catherine says, I love thatMatt's coming on today.
They love it when you come on,Matt.

(01:43:47):
We get a big uh big bump in thecomments when Matt shows up.
Um hi from Chile, Liverpool, NewYork, uh, South Florida,
Netherlands again, as always,Indianapolis, Austin, Texas,
Grace Case, uh, Cameron, NorthCarolina.
Hey, Betsy Sue.

(01:44:07):
Um, looking forward to the showwith Matt.
Nice.
Um, from the UK.
We got Canada.
Love that Matt's coming on.
California.
Galway, Ireland.
I think that's where this kidwas from.
I think he was from Ireland.
Edinburgh?

(01:44:28):
Is that the work?
Somebody tell me in the commentsif that's it.
Yay, Matt.
Um, anyway, thanks for comingtoday, guys.
Thanks for viewing in.
I'm trying to think if we shouldmake this, I think we're calling
this the secrets of Scientology.
I'm almost even thinking ofchanging it to just RPF stories
or something like that, becausethat would be its own thing.

(01:44:50):
Just we just, and if there'sother people, if you're out
there and you were on the RPFand you want to come on here and
tell your stories, hey, email,email us at blown for good.
Go to the Blown for Goodwebsite.
There's a contact us form, andyou can send us a little thing.
If you want to tell yourstories, we'll we'll see.
We'll put you on.
Um, if you've got a decentcameraman, uh camera, cameraman,

(01:45:11):
uh, camera and a microphone, um,then maybe you can tell your
stories.
Um, awesome.
And then definitely we'll doAmy.
I'll talk to Amy and confirm it,but I think she was game to do
it because she's got oh my god.
I want to say she was on the RPFat least four times.

SPEAKER_02 (01:45:31):
Over Yeah, I think four times.
We escaped together.
That's how we got out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:35):
Yeah, wasn't she on the RPF when she was a little
kid too?
Like she was like 14 or 16.

SPEAKER_02 (01:45:40):
16.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:41):
16 when she was on the RPF.

SPEAKER_02 (01:45:43):
Yeah, I first saw it was at in Florida at Flag and
Clearwater at 16.
Jeez, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (01:45:49):
16 years old.
Oh my goodness.
Anyway, thanks for joining us,guys, until next time.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45:57):
Bye.
Thanks for watching.
If you'd like to help supportthe channel, feel free to check
out the merch store link in thedescription.
We have Hail Xenu.
Xenu is my homeboy and BFGbranded mouse pads, shirts,
mugs, all sorts of other stuffin there that helps us to bring
you new content on a regularbasis.

(01:46:18):
You can also pick up a copy ofmy book, Blown for Good Behind
the Iron Curtain of Scientology,in hardback, Kindle, and Audible
versions as well.
There's also a link to ourpodcast, and you can get that on
Apple, Spotify, or wherever youlisten to podcasts.
And if you'd like to watchanother video, you can click on

(01:46:38):
this link right here, or you canclick on this one here, or you
can click on the subscribebutton right here.
Thanks a lot, until next time.

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What Happens When A Church Builds A Prison Out Of Policy - Secrets of Scientology #2 w/ Mat Pesch

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}What Happens When A Church Builds A Prison Out Of Policy - Secrets of Scientology #2 w/ Mat Pesch