April 9, 2026 • 15 mins
Vocational, hands-on, work-based practical training is essential for bringing new farmers, growers, and workers to the industry. One of the major organisations behind this kind of training is Primary ITO, however government reforms could significantly change the way we deliver work-based education in New Zealand. What does this system look like in the future and can you have your say?
Joining the conversation is Primary ITO CEO Ginny Vincent.
For more information about Primary ITO, visit: Home | Primary ITO
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(00:11):
Thank you for joining Blue Shed Diary, a podcast for our farmers
and growers. My name is Milton Monroe, your
host and technical team manager here at PG Rights.
Vocational hands on work based practical training is essential
to bringing new farmers, growersand workers to the industry.
One of the major organisations behind this training is Primary
(00:32):
ITO. There's been a little bit of
uncertainty in and around Primary ITO as government
reforms have made the future of this organisation, well, frankly
a little shaky. To help discuss this and many
other issues around the vocational training on farms, we
are joined by Ginny Vincent, Chief Executive for Primary I/O.
(00:54):
Welcome to the show, Jenny. Thank you, Milton.
I was excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Ohh, it's fantastic to have you.We've had a, we've had a long
standing relationship with Primary ITO.
We've actually delivered a number of courses through the
business from our sort of our crown jewel, the Academy course
where we do the certificate and rural servicing right through to
(01:15):
some work we've been doing with their horticultural team and
looking to set up a broad standard across the business.
So we've worked with Primary ITOfor coming up both the footway
actually for over 15 years. So been a great relationship.
But what we really got you alongto talk about today is we're
really keen to understand a little bit more around the
(01:36):
future of vocational training. So look, I suppose just to to
give us a little bit of a bit ofan insight, do you want to take
us through who primary ITO are and the role you currently play?
Sure, absolutely. So primary I show currently
delivers work based learning across the country.
So we're national body and we deliver to all primary
(01:59):
industries in its work based learning.
So what work based learning means on the farm and the
orchard, on the paddock, it's actually takes place in the
workplace. So it's a real life experiences.
We would like to thank our Lunars are at the the skills and
knowledge they're getting as relevant to what they're going
to be doing and it's practical and we cover a range of
(02:23):
industries. I think we have worked with 25
different sectors. We've got about 6000 learners
and we work with 3 1/2 thousand employers and we also deliver to
schools. So we also work with about 100
schools across the country. The government have instigated
some reforms to to help work based training is is gonna go
(02:47):
forward. Can you give us a sort of a
broad overview of really what those reforms are and what they
entail and the impact it has on an organisation like Primary
ITO? Sure.
So as you'll be aware and 2020 to poking her was established
which brought together all of the polytechnics, 25
polytechnics as well as the industry training organisations
(03:09):
into a single entity which was to poking her or in NZ I St.
Now in 2025, government then passed changes to the Education
and Training Act which was to disestablished to Kenya re
establish the Polytechnics and then to look at what would
happen next with the industry training organisations.
(03:31):
So at the moment primary ITO is sitting under the new Food and
Fibre Industry Skills Board. So the industry skills boards
replaced the workforce development councils.
So industry skills boards are there.
They are the the body that develops qualifications, unit
standards, skill standards and works with I guess industry to
(03:53):
ensure these qualifications are fit for purpose.
That's their role. They are in the interim they are
I guess the, I guess we call them the babysitter or we are
sitting under them until decisions are made of what
happens next with the ITO. So there's two pieces to that.
What happens next with Itos is actually industries decision.
(04:17):
So this is a really important time for industry to say what do
they think is the best option for them for the future of work
based learning. They only really have three
options. Then the options are that they
move the primary ITO work based learning goes to a Polytechnic
or polytechnics. It could be one or it could be
(04:39):
across the country. So it becomes a bit more
regionalised. The the work based learning for
each industry could move to the Wananga which is multi based
learning. And the third option is that
work based learning moves to either an established private
training establishment or a Pte.They could move via.
(05:00):
And when I say industry, it is industry as a whole.
But each industry can choose to do something different.
So agriculture could say actually we want to go with the
polytechnics, hort could say we want to go here, seafood might
say something else. So each industry has their own
voice. The other option and one that is
being seems to be coming throughis the preferred option from
(05:23):
industry is that there is a new PT or private training
establishment setup that is industry owned and driven and it
would be a food and fibre PT andthose within primary industries
within primary ITO that think that's the best option for them.
They would be transferred food or moved across into the new
(05:47):
food and fibre Pte. So that's definitely coming
across as the preferred option at this stage.
And that's the option that we'rebusy working on with industry to
make some decisions on what that's going to look like, like
Patrick there. Yeah.
No, no, no, it's, it's a really interesting.
I mean, it's always trying to look for the glass half full
(06:11):
component. It's always great to see
industry actually having a little bit of say in where this
is going to go. And look, and I've got to go
Full disclosure here Bryson, we actually have put in a letter of
support for Primary ITO and helping to develop their new
organisation. We do feel that option is the
(06:33):
best option. Moving it to the politics, it
takes it away from work based training, it puts it into a
classroom and we just know that doesn't work.
We'd love to see an organisationlike Primary ITO continue to
deliver the service they have. So do need to put that out
there. That's certainly our position.
(06:54):
We've had a successful relationship with Primary ITO
and we'd love to see that continue, both in terms of the
quality of the courses we offer but also the flexibility we
haven't been able to work with them and finding ways to deliver
them in the most effective way for certainly for our people.
What's gonna happen if I am going to have to go a little bit
(07:15):
doom and gloom for us here, Jenny?
What is the risk to the future if we do end up going to some of
these other options? I mean, there will be some to be
fear. There will be some industries
that it makes sense to transition to an established PT
because for some industries there is one that sits there and
that would make sense. That Pte would also have to show
(07:38):
that they are financially viableand they have got the capability
and capacity to pick up these learners that currently sit with
primary ITO. The polytechnics, again, some of
them are already delivering to primary industries.
Most of what they deliver at themoment is provider based.
So that's where you come into the classroom.
(08:00):
That option is that they can pick up work based learning and
I guess, you know, some polytechnics might do that
really well, but they haven't had experience in it before.
So it's going they're moving to a slightly new model that most
haven't used. So they may do some on job
training, but technically it is provided based training
(08:20):
currently. So without have to move to a
completely different model. And I guess setting that up and
ensuring consistency would be something that I know industry
likes to have that national consistency and know that
everyone's getting getting mostly the same.
It is an important part for us is knowing that we've got that,
that, that consistent message across.
(08:43):
Now when you are a, a nationwideorganisation like us, well there
might be some little regional flavours.
Generally 80% of it's the same. We do like to make sure that we
have that consistent approach. This seems like there's been a a
degree of uncertainty around this workplace training and
(09:05):
indeed in primary ITO for a number of years.
Have you seen that uncertainty actually take an impact on the
number of students we're gettingsigning up to courses?
And I think it feels like we've probably been on a bit of a
treadmill for the last five years.
We moved into Topoo Kinga, then we were moving back out of to
Pooking. Now we're looking at what
(09:25):
happens next. So what we are hearing is there
are some employers because I guess that's who we work with.
We have that sort of three-way partnership between us, the
employer and the Lunar. That's how we operate.
But for some, the messaging that's going out, we're hearing
feedback. Actually primary ITO doesn't
exist anymore and they're not taking anymore enrollments.
(09:45):
Primary ITO is here right now. Enrollments are continuing and
learning is continuing for now. We have until 2027, June 2027,
and that's when we will no longer be able to take
enrollments as primary ITO and primary ITO will cease to exist
based on the government's timeframes.
Currently in December 2027, However, CUP half full, which
(10:11):
primary 2 primary ITO likes to be, is that if we have the
industry support as when we talkabout primary ITO becoming a new
PT, we like to think of it, it'snot primary ITO.
This is going to be a brand new Pte.
It might be that staff shift across delivery and the quals
(10:32):
and everything will stay the same.
But I think there will be some, obviously some transition.
And then I'd like to think they'll be some transformation.
Take the great bits and prove the bits aren't working well.
And there may be other industries and you may have seen
in the media that forestry have indicated they want to be part
of the new food and fibre PT. So it will look and feel a
(10:54):
little bit different. But for the lunar, we would like
to think that transition is seamless and they won't see any
difference. Yes, the branding might change,
not sure, but overall that transition should be they should
go through unscathed. And that's the outcome anyone
would be looking for here is to ensure that those learners see
(11:17):
that they're consistency, that there's no difference between a
a course delivered in 2026 in the next one delivered in 2027.
There's no change in delivery ofthe courses.
Even though people might change,their branding might change,
it's still going to deliver the same sort of message.
(11:37):
There's a lot of work. So we, we really are, you know,
putting out a quarter industry as would be really clear what
you want because it is a decision that does have to be
made. It can't be a we'll wait and see
because industry need to be unless we can say they, they
need to be on the bus because with wherever they choose to go,
we will support them to do that.Because this isn't about keeping
(12:00):
primary ITO as it is and keepingeveryone safe.
This is about what's best for industry.
How do we ensure the lunar experience continues and where
do we go from here? So there's a lot of work to be
done in the next 6 months and wecan only get that work done if
we're really clear on what industry wants.
You've led me to a very clear call to action.
(12:22):
So we've got, you know, industrypeople, we've got growers, we've
got farmers, we've got listeningto this show.
What can they do here? What can they do to help and
support? If they've got any questions,
they need to just get hold of whoever they're working with.
At primary ITO. We've delivered a number of
sessions to stakeholders, So what we want them to do is
actually really think about what's best for industry.
(12:43):
We are working really closely with industry bodies or the levy
bodies, and they are supportive of what the new could look like,
but they only represent some. We really want to hear from
those people on the ground, those people who have got family
businesses, they might only haveone or two Lunars, they're just
as important. So any support they can send
(13:03):
through it could be an e-mail ifthey want more information about
what it could look like. Again, we're all here to how
we're all on the journey together.
So make some decisions, think about what's going to be best
for you, best industry and what the future of work based
learning might look like. Ideally we are you gonna save
time frame. Sorry, jumping the gun, we are
(13:26):
saying the middle of April. Ohh moved.
It a bit we had initially we'd see the end of March, but we're
really conscious people are really, it's something that
people need to get their heads around.
So it is taking a little bit longer, but once some of those
decisions are made and we're already on the journey with the,
as I said, the bigger groups around deciding what that new
(13:47):
looks like. But we really want to have it
really clear because obviously we've got obligations to report
to TEC Teacher Education, Education Commission.
They want to know exactly what'shappening.
And if we're setting timeframes to be in a new at the beginning
of 2027, there's a lot of work to do in a short amount of time.
(14:07):
Yes, it does sound like it's going to be a bit of a mad dash
towards the end there. But we'll have a good time frame
though. If we've got a time frame, it
gives us the opportunity to plantowards it and work towards it.
It's there uncertainty that I think really sets people's teeth
on edge. And I think people need to be
(14:28):
feel safe and secure that there will be a home for the learners
and for work based learning. We just need to know what the
preferred option for that is andwhat are you basing those
decisions on. So is it because you want
national consistency? Is it because you want someone
who's got experience with work based learning?
So that's what people need to think about.
(14:50):
What? You've certainly alleviated a
few of my fears, Jenny. I'm sure that the programmes
that I oversee and run are in are in very safe hands here.
So look, we're really looking forward to seeing what industry
wants and getting a little bit more clarity as to where the
direction's gonna be. But thank you for your time
today. Once we know a little bit more
from the government, we will have to have you back and
(15:12):
explain what the future holds. Sounds great and I hope it will
be an exciting conversation. I'm sure it will be.
Thanks, Jenny. See you.
Thank you for listening to Blue Shield Diary.
We drop new episodes each week so be sure to give us a follow
so you never miss a thing. Plus, tell a friend or even tell
10 of them about the podcast. The more the merrier.
(15:34):
Thanks again for listening, Ducky Tiano.
Thank you for joining Blue Shed Diary, a podcast for our farmers
and growers. My name is Milton Monroe, your
host and technical team manager here at PG Rights.
Vocational hands on work based practical training is essential
to bringing new farmers, growersand workers to the industry.
One of the major organisations behind this training is Primary
(00:32):
ITO. There's been a little bit of
uncertainty in and around Primary ITO as government
reforms have made the future of this organisation, well, frankly
a little shaky. To help discuss this and many
other issues around the vocational training on farms, we
are joined by Ginny Vincent, Chief Executive for Primary I/O.
(00:54):
Welcome to the show, Jenny. Thank you, Milton.
I was excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Ohh, it's fantastic to have you.We've had a, we've had a long
standing relationship with Primary ITO.
We've actually delivered a number of courses through the
business from our sort of our crown jewel, the Academy course
where we do the certificate and rural servicing right through to
(01:15):
some work we've been doing with their horticultural team and
looking to set up a broad standard across the business.
So we've worked with Primary ITOfor coming up both the footway
actually for over 15 years. So been a great relationship.
But what we really got you alongto talk about today is we're
really keen to understand a little bit more around the
(01:36):
future of vocational training. So look, I suppose just to to
give us a little bit of a bit ofan insight, do you want to take
us through who primary ITO are and the role you currently play?
Sure, absolutely. So primary I show currently
delivers work based learning across the country.
So we're national body and we deliver to all primary
(01:59):
industries in its work based learning.
So what work based learning means on the farm and the
orchard, on the paddock, it's actually takes place in the
workplace. So it's a real life experiences.
We would like to thank our Lunars are at the the skills and
knowledge they're getting as relevant to what they're going
to be doing and it's practical and we cover a range of
(02:23):
industries. I think we have worked with 25
different sectors. We've got about 6000 learners
and we work with 3 1/2 thousand employers and we also deliver to
schools. So we also work with about 100
schools across the country. The government have instigated
some reforms to to help work based training is is gonna go
(02:47):
forward. Can you give us a sort of a
broad overview of really what those reforms are and what they
entail and the impact it has on an organisation like Primary
ITO? Sure.
So as you'll be aware and 2020 to poking her was established
which brought together all of the polytechnics, 25
polytechnics as well as the industry training organisations
(03:09):
into a single entity which was to poking her or in NZ I St.
Now in 2025, government then passed changes to the Education
and Training Act which was to disestablished to Kenya re
establish the Polytechnics and then to look at what would
happen next with the industry training organisations.
(03:31):
So at the moment primary ITO is sitting under the new Food and
Fibre Industry Skills Board. So the industry skills boards
replaced the workforce development councils.
So industry skills boards are there.
They are the the body that develops qualifications, unit
standards, skill standards and works with I guess industry to
(03:53):
ensure these qualifications are fit for purpose.
That's their role. They are in the interim they are
I guess the, I guess we call them the babysitter or we are
sitting under them until decisions are made of what
happens next with the ITO. So there's two pieces to that.
What happens next with Itos is actually industries decision.
(04:17):
So this is a really important time for industry to say what do
they think is the best option for them for the future of work
based learning. They only really have three
options. Then the options are that they
move the primary ITO work based learning goes to a Polytechnic
or polytechnics. It could be one or it could be
(04:39):
across the country. So it becomes a bit more
regionalised. The the work based learning for
each industry could move to the Wananga which is multi based
learning. And the third option is that
work based learning moves to either an established private
training establishment or a Pte.They could move via.
(05:00):
And when I say industry, it is industry as a whole.
But each industry can choose to do something different.
So agriculture could say actually we want to go with the
polytechnics, hort could say we want to go here, seafood might
say something else. So each industry has their own
voice. The other option and one that is
being seems to be coming throughis the preferred option from
(05:23):
industry is that there is a new PT or private training
establishment setup that is industry owned and driven and it
would be a food and fibre PT andthose within primary industries
within primary ITO that think that's the best option for them.
They would be transferred food or moved across into the new
(05:47):
food and fibre Pte. So that's definitely coming
across as the preferred option at this stage.
And that's the option that we'rebusy working on with industry to
make some decisions on what that's going to look like, like
Patrick there. Yeah.
No, no, no, it's, it's a really interesting.
I mean, it's always trying to look for the glass half full
(06:11):
component. It's always great to see
industry actually having a little bit of say in where this
is going to go. And look, and I've got to go
Full disclosure here Bryson, we actually have put in a letter of
support for Primary ITO and helping to develop their new
organisation. We do feel that option is the
(06:33):
best option. Moving it to the politics, it
takes it away from work based training, it puts it into a
classroom and we just know that doesn't work.
We'd love to see an organisationlike Primary ITO continue to
deliver the service they have. So do need to put that out
there. That's certainly our position.
(06:54):
We've had a successful relationship with Primary ITO
and we'd love to see that continue, both in terms of the
quality of the courses we offer but also the flexibility we
haven't been able to work with them and finding ways to deliver
them in the most effective way for certainly for our people.
What's gonna happen if I am going to have to go a little bit
(07:15):
doom and gloom for us here, Jenny?
What is the risk to the future if we do end up going to some of
these other options? I mean, there will be some to be
fear. There will be some industries
that it makes sense to transition to an established PT
because for some industries there is one that sits there and
that would make sense. That Pte would also have to show
(07:38):
that they are financially viableand they have got the capability
and capacity to pick up these learners that currently sit with
primary ITO. The polytechnics, again, some of
them are already delivering to primary industries.
Most of what they deliver at themoment is provider based.
So that's where you come into the classroom.
(08:00):
That option is that they can pick up work based learning and
I guess, you know, some polytechnics might do that
really well, but they haven't had experience in it before.
So it's going they're moving to a slightly new model that most
haven't used. So they may do some on job
training, but technically it is provided based training
(08:20):
currently. So without have to move to a
completely different model. And I guess setting that up and
ensuring consistency would be something that I know industry
likes to have that national consistency and know that
everyone's getting getting mostly the same.
It is an important part for us is knowing that we've got that,
that, that consistent message across.
(08:43):
Now when you are a, a nationwideorganisation like us, well there
might be some little regional flavours.
Generally 80% of it's the same. We do like to make sure that we
have that consistent approach. This seems like there's been a a
degree of uncertainty around this workplace training and
(09:05):
indeed in primary ITO for a number of years.
Have you seen that uncertainty actually take an impact on the
number of students we're gettingsigning up to courses?
And I think it feels like we've probably been on a bit of a
treadmill for the last five years.
We moved into Topoo Kinga, then we were moving back out of to
Pooking. Now we're looking at what
(09:25):
happens next. So what we are hearing is there
are some employers because I guess that's who we work with.
We have that sort of three-way partnership between us, the
employer and the Lunar. That's how we operate.
But for some, the messaging that's going out, we're hearing
feedback. Actually primary ITO doesn't
exist anymore and they're not taking anymore enrollments.
(09:45):
Primary ITO is here right now. Enrollments are continuing and
learning is continuing for now. We have until 2027, June 2027,
and that's when we will no longer be able to take
enrollments as primary ITO and primary ITO will cease to exist
based on the government's timeframes.
Currently in December 2027, However, CUP half full, which
(10:11):
primary 2 primary ITO likes to be, is that if we have the
industry support as when we talkabout primary ITO becoming a new
PT, we like to think of it, it'snot primary ITO.
This is going to be a brand new Pte.
It might be that staff shift across delivery and the quals
(10:32):
and everything will stay the same.
But I think there will be some, obviously some transition.
And then I'd like to think they'll be some transformation.
Take the great bits and prove the bits aren't working well.
And there may be other industries and you may have seen
in the media that forestry have indicated they want to be part
of the new food and fibre PT. So it will look and feel a
(10:54):
little bit different. But for the lunar, we would like
to think that transition is seamless and they won't see any
difference. Yes, the branding might change,
not sure, but overall that transition should be they should
go through unscathed. And that's the outcome anyone
would be looking for here is to ensure that those learners see
(11:17):
that they're consistency, that there's no difference between a
a course delivered in 2026 in the next one delivered in 2027.
There's no change in delivery ofthe courses.
Even though people might change,their branding might change,
it's still going to deliver the same sort of message.
(11:37):
There's a lot of work. So we, we really are, you know,
putting out a quarter industry as would be really clear what
you want because it is a decision that does have to be
made. It can't be a we'll wait and see
because industry need to be unless we can say they, they
need to be on the bus because with wherever they choose to go,
we will support them to do that.Because this isn't about keeping
(12:00):
primary ITO as it is and keepingeveryone safe.
This is about what's best for industry.
How do we ensure the lunar experience continues and where
do we go from here? So there's a lot of work to be
done in the next 6 months and wecan only get that work done if
we're really clear on what industry wants.
You've led me to a very clear call to action.
(12:22):
So we've got, you know, industrypeople, we've got growers, we've
got farmers, we've got listeningto this show.
What can they do here? What can they do to help and
support? If they've got any questions,
they need to just get hold of whoever they're working with.
At primary ITO. We've delivered a number of
sessions to stakeholders, So what we want them to do is
actually really think about what's best for industry.
(12:43):
We are working really closely with industry bodies or the levy
bodies, and they are supportive of what the new could look like,
but they only represent some. We really want to hear from
those people on the ground, those people who have got family
businesses, they might only haveone or two Lunars, they're just
as important. So any support they can send
(13:03):
through it could be an e-mail ifthey want more information about
what it could look like. Again, we're all here to how
we're all on the journey together.
So make some decisions, think about what's going to be best
for you, best industry and what the future of work based
learning might look like. Ideally we are you gonna save
time frame. Sorry, jumping the gun, we are
(13:26):
saying the middle of April. Ohh moved.
It a bit we had initially we'd see the end of March, but we're
really conscious people are really, it's something that
people need to get their heads around.
So it is taking a little bit longer, but once some of those
decisions are made and we're already on the journey with the,
as I said, the bigger groups around deciding what that new
(13:47):
looks like. But we really want to have it
really clear because obviously we've got obligations to report
to TEC Teacher Education, Education Commission.
They want to know exactly what'shappening.
And if we're setting timeframes to be in a new at the beginning
of 2027, there's a lot of work to do in a short amount of time.
(14:07):
Yes, it does sound like it's going to be a bit of a mad dash
towards the end there. But we'll have a good time frame
though. If we've got a time frame, it
gives us the opportunity to plantowards it and work towards it.
It's there uncertainty that I think really sets people's teeth
on edge. And I think people need to be
(14:28):
feel safe and secure that there will be a home for the learners
and for work based learning. We just need to know what the
preferred option for that is andwhat are you basing those
decisions on. So is it because you want
national consistency? Is it because you want someone
who's got experience with work based learning?
So that's what people need to think about.
(14:50):
What? You've certainly alleviated a
few of my fears, Jenny. I'm sure that the programmes
that I oversee and run are in are in very safe hands here.
So look, we're really looking forward to seeing what industry
wants and getting a little bit more clarity as to where the
direction's gonna be. But thank you for your time
today. Once we know a little bit more
from the government, we will have to have you back and
(15:12):
explain what the future holds. Sounds great and I hope it will
be an exciting conversation. I'm sure it will be.
Thanks, Jenny. See you.
Thank you for listening to Blue Shield Diary.
We drop new episodes each week so be sure to give us a follow
so you never miss a thing. Plus, tell a friend or even tell
10 of them about the podcast. The more the merrier.
(15:34):
Thanks again for listening, Ducky Tiano.
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