Episode Transcript
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Michael V. Geary, CAE (00:00):
The life
cycle of a building is that it
is you know, 80% of it is dirtwhen it's being occupied and
utilized. The rest of it isduring design and construction
phase.
Josh Miles, Host (00:14):
Welcome to the
Bold Brand Show. If you're in
the AEC industry and want togrow your firm, we're sharing
exactly how bold and innovativefirms win more. The sad truth is
most firms that are strugglingin the AEC industry are still
doing things the way we'vealways done them, but this show
is about finding a better way.I'm your host and founder of
(00:37):
Bold Brand, Josh Miles. I'm apublished author, veteran of the
TEDx stage, and a brandstrategist with over twenty five
years of experience.
But my superpower is my focus onAEC firms to understand how
branding and marketing in theprofessional services industries
is wildly different than forretail brands like Apple,
Amazon, or Starbucks. So in thispodcast, we're going deep with
(00:59):
AEC firm leaders, marketers, andinnovators in the AEC industry.
We'll focus on the hottesttopics and trends in AEC to
uncover the growth secrets ofthe most successful firms and
how firms can create lastinglegacies and perhaps what the
future has in store. I've got aspecial deal to share with you
from my friends at BizNow. Iregularly head up BizNow events
(01:22):
here in Denver, and honestly,they're my go to for networking
and commercial real estate andAEC.
Each month, they pull togetherthese great panels with heavy
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trends. What's cool is they'renot just a Denver thing. They
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(01:43):
stay on top of market shifts orwanna connect with people making
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If you're interested, check outBizNow. That's bisn0w.com/events
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(02:03):
connections you'll make areworth it. Special thank you to
BizNow.
On today's episode, we'rechatting with my friend, Michael
Geary. Michael has over thirtyyears of leadership experience
with associations and nonprofitorganizations. Currently, he
serves as the president and CEOof the International Facility
Management Association or IFMA.Founded in 1980, IFMA is the
(02:25):
world's largest and most widelyrecognized organization for
facility managementprofessionals, supporting over
25,000 members in more than a 40countries. Previously, Mike was
the chief executive officer ofthe Society for Marketing
Professional Services or S andPS and the S and PS Foundation,
serving over 7,400 marketing andbusiness development
(02:46):
professionals in thearchitecture, engineering, and
construction industries.
His career also includes servingas the president and CEO of the
American Hort and HorticulturalResearch Institute, concurrently
led the Ohio Produce Growers andMarketers Association, and the
Nursery and LandscapeAssociation executives of North
America. Earlier in his career,Michael was executive director
(03:09):
of the American Institute ofArchitecture students and held
senior staff roles at theNational Association of Home
Builders and the Delta ChiFraternity and the North
American Intra FraternityCouncil. And, of course, Mike
and I worked together in ourprevious roles at SMPS where we
rolled out the rebrand in thenew Markindium series and
navigated a little thing calledthe pandemic. Michael, welcome
(03:32):
to the Bold Brand Show.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (03:35):
Thank
you, Josh. I had actually
forgotten about the pandemic, sothank you for bringing that up.
That's good. Yeah. And it'sfunny, not so funny, but
interesting, as organizationsright now are thinking about the
impact of the tariff war, if youwill.
(03:57):
I'm not making a politicalstatement, but, you know, the
the the issues around theeconomy, tariffs, travel,
etcetera, we're like, okay.Well, let's get that pandemic
playbook off the shelf becausewe learned a lot during that
time about how to adjust quicklyto unexpected changes,
economically, socially,otherwise. And so we're all
(04:18):
kinda like, not we're notreliving the pandemic. That'd be
dramatic. But to say that, butwe're definitely thinking like,
oh, well, what did we do?
How did we run our businessesdifferently? What did we learn
from that experience? Becausesome of that may be relevant
today. Yeah. So it'sunfortunate.
Have to think of it in thatcontext, but everybody gets it
and understands it because itwas just a few years ago.
Josh Miles, Host (04:38):
Yeah.
Definitely. Well, on our show,
we wanna learn about what you'rethinking about and challenges
you're facing and the successesthat you've had and and some of
the boldest moves that you'vemade. And, you know,
coincidentally, one of thereasons that I'm even speaking
to you today is because of IFMA.And when you took that job with
IFMA, I was like, I probablywouldn't even be here today if
(04:59):
it wasn't for IFMA.
I get introduced to theIndianapolis chapter of Ithma
when I was a very youngprofessional, and I got invited
to speak at one of theirmeetings on website design, I
think. And I remember tellingthis group of professionals who
are, you know, much older andwiser than I that if you have
your mission statement on yourwebsite, you should probably
(05:19):
take it off because nobodycares. And I remember that was
the thing that's everybody toldme afterwards. They were like
Michael V. Geary, CAE (05:24):
Right.
Josh Miles, Host (05:24):
That was the
craziest thing that you just
walked into the room and toldpeople nobody cares about their
mission. But but the, the IFMAchapter in Indianapolis was
really great and was kind of my,gateway drug to S and PS, if you
will. So, so I'm I'm a big fanof of IFMA and and the things
that it's done done for me in mymy career. Yeah.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (05:44):
Good.
Well, I'm a big fan of Ithma too
because it's helping my career.So we have that in common. The
continuation of.
Josh Miles, Host (05:52):
Yeah. No
kidding. I mean, you've spent,
as we said in your in your bio,most of your career in the
membership association world andAEC and S and PS, and and now
you're on the facility managerside. Or as we used to say, kind
of in the S and PS world, like,kind of more of the owners and
the the the users, theoperators, the buildings. When
(06:16):
you think about S and PS andIthma, are they more similar
than they are different?
Are they really different?What's going on? I mean, you're
you're in a global organizationnow with a 40 countries, I think
we said.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (06:27):
Sure.
Today.
Josh Miles, Host (06:29):
Yeah. How how
are how are things similar or
different, from from S and PS?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (06:34):
How long
is this podcast? Because I think
there's a lot to cover, Josh,to, you know, answer that
succinctly, which is I have ahard time doing that anyway.
But, you know, I think so thecommonality is we're a
membership organization, andwe're serving people who are
committed to some profession, toa career, to profession, to
(06:54):
growing a business, to takingcare of society, their
communities, to the world. Youcan make it small. You can make
it large.
So that that's the commonality.Right? We're all what we're
trying to do as organizations isto connect people in a similar
profession or a profession withsimilar, tasks, jobs,
responsibilities so they canlearn from each other and then
(07:17):
also assist them with advancingor or, moving forward,
expanding, you know, pick theword that, helps this career
profession grow, understanding,like, the technology,
opportunities, working withgovernments, working with
community organizations so thatthey are doing a better job of
(07:38):
meeting the needs of theircommunities or meeting the needs
of their clients. So, you know,IFMA is not not unusual in that
respect, though it might beglobal. We are local everywhere
where IFMA is.
So whether or not we are achapter in Ghana or a chapter in
Singapore or a chapter inIndianapolis, they all have the
(07:59):
same purpose and mission. Itdoesn't matter where they are.
They take this global structureorganization and all of its
products and services, butreally deliver it locally. And
so every organization is likethat, whether they're just a
little organization in onecommunity or they're they're a
global organization. It's abouthelping people.
You know, the the thedifferences really would just be
(08:21):
scale, I guess. I mean, like anybusiness, have in the built
environment, you know, we havesmall AEC firms who just
specialize on a very specifictype of building or in one city,
and then there are, of course,global architecture,
engineering, construction firms.They're all doing the same
thing, just the scale isdifferent. That's all. I mean,
(08:41):
it's ultimately still peopletrying to serve other people and
help them make their livesbetter and make the world better
as well.
Josh Miles, Host (08:49):
Maybe this is
hard to put a finger on given
that you're you're so broadaround the world, but what would
you say is is either the hottestissue that Ithma is facing right
now or that that your membersare dealing with, or what are
kind of some of the top onesacross the world?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (09:07):
The the
hottest issue, I think, has been
around for a bit, so I I don'tthink it's, an acute issue per
se, but that is relevancy. Andso this is what's very
interesting to me as a per as aprofessional that's been working
in the built environment for along time. There's a whole lot
of organizations dedicated todesign and construction and then
(09:29):
all their products and servicesthat go into that, from, you
know, project managementsoftware, etcetera. So if my
sort of on the tail end of that,And so this is what's really
intriguing to me about workingwith this organization is taking
all that knowledge andexperience and then helping the
working with the organization,the people that say, okay. Now
we'll take the building fromyou.
(09:50):
The life cycle of a building isthat it is you know, 80% of it
is dirt when it's being occupiedand utilized. The rest of it is
during this design andconstruction phase. This is
true, I think, when you sit inthe seat, when you're in the non
owner seat is people havingmaking sure that people
understand what you do isimportant and why it's relevant
(10:11):
to them, what to their business.And so, among the hot topics
would be ensuring that facilitymanagers are positioned
correctly for success to helptheir owners be successful and
have having people understandwhat that looks like and what
the opportunity is, that theseare these jobs are relevant and
(10:37):
necessary. In fact, in somegovernments around the world,
they identify facility managersfacility management as a
requirement, if you will, foryou know, if they were to make
any changes that you know, iffacility managers are the last
ones out the door, they arenecessary to the success of that
entity.
(10:57):
And same thing with manycorporations. It's you know,
their job is to protect theassets. And so the hot topic is
making sure and continuing toensure their the relevancy and
validity of the profession. Withthat, and it's hard to really
you know, I'm not gonnanecessarily say sort of multiple
things, is the ongoing issuearound sustainability,
(11:20):
resiliency, etcetera. So one ofthe things we're working on
right now and really kindastarting to organize
conversations around is thiscircular circular economy that
is buildings are refreshing,furniture, equipment, whatever
it might be, that just not goingoff to the landfill, but that
(11:40):
Mhmm.
We can it can be reusedsomewhere else. In fact, there
are companies dedicated torefurbishing office equipment,
for example. So that's nevergoing away. Like, it's just how
do what's our role in ensuringthat there's sustainability and
resiliency? And it's more thanjust you know, it's also
contributing to concerns aboutenergy efficiency.
(12:04):
And but that comes down to thebottom line is the bottom line
for owners that ensure thatthey're being financially
sustainable and resilient aswell. And what is the role of
facility management in insupporting all of that? You
know, the other issue, I think,is just, you know, social
(12:25):
equity. We're we're we'recommitted to ensuring that the
right people are being hiredinto companies, and there's
opportunities for all. And whilethere's different ways to
approach that around the world,we are around the world, and so
we think about that differently.
And what it means culturally indifferent parts of the world,
how do we help people advanceand get opportunities into their
(12:46):
careers or for their careers andfor their families? So, you
know, as an example, we may takefor granted here in The United
States that, you work for acompany, they're gonna pay for
your professional development.You want a credential. You wanna
be a certified facility manager.Your employer will probably pay
for that.
They'll support you getting thebooks and going to a conference.
(13:08):
Well, that's not universallytrue. We have members in other
parts of the world that theyhave to pay for that themselves,
and, they realize they'vethey've realized what how that's
important to them. So it's adifferent approach and attitude
by employers globally about howto support the development of
people. And that's what I meanby equity is that how do we make
it possible for people who arein this profession to suit to
(13:32):
succeed, and what do we do as anorganization to facilitate that?
Josh Miles, Host (13:36):
So is that
part of the pitch of why join
Ithma, why to be a member, whoshould be the member? Like,
what's what does that kind ofvalue proposition look like?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (13:47):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I've we offer,
you know, the value propositionincludes a couple of things, but
that's that is one of them forsure is that, we have different
pricing, for membership aroundthe world. So we ensure that
there is a entry level isaccessible for everyone in their
context. Other people and otherthings people care about, I
(14:10):
should say, is that they arecontributing to some global good
or some community good. They'revery excited about design.
They're excited by aboutconstruction, so we wanna make
sure they're being exposed tothat as well. So the value
proposition is we will supportyou, and we'll figure out how to
make that happen to say kindasimplistic in a simple way. And
(14:33):
so what that means here in TheStates versus what it means in
Europe and what it means inAfrica or in The Middle East, we
flex to that to support supportindividuals there.
Josh Miles, Host (14:44):
We know you
and I both enjoy nerding out on
techie stuff and technology andRight. All the all the new
things. Anything exciting sortof in the technology side of the
world that, applies to Ithma andyour membership?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (14:59):
Yeah.
Well, you know, as technology is
evolving to supportcommunications as, you know,
you're you're connected to, alsoevolving is the use of
artificial intelligence inmanaging buildings. And, so
we're we are addressing thatissue as an organization. We're
supporting the conversationaround that with both software
(15:20):
designers and the end users sothat buildings become more
efficient in their operations.It's not about having less
people.
It's about making sure we havethe right people doing the right
things. And so there are somethings that can be done by
technology, by artificialintelligence, you know,
crunching the numbers, analyzingenergy efficiency, analyzing
(15:43):
space usage, you know, that canbe done more quickly and be done
more efficiently, but therestill needs to be a person to
interpret that information andthen activate on it and make to
make a change. So AI, for sure,while we you know, the general
person and uses and thinksabout, okay. I'm gonna help you
write an email message or helpme write a write, you know, a a
(16:07):
blog, if you will. Well, we'reusing AI to really to run
buildings.
And the other related to that isunderstanding also the long term
viability of buildings. So usingtechnology, to, make decisions
long term about the efficiencyand the value of the building.
(16:28):
It is an asset. And so we'reworking on a new new program now
about building life cyclemanagement and understanding,
how long can a building last,how do we how do we utilize its
capacity long term, but alsolook at it from an asset
perspective that, buildings getbought and sold all the time.
(16:50):
And so when you're buying abuilding, you're not just buying
concrete and windows, you'realso buying this knowledge base.
And that's a technologyevolution as well as being able
to create a knowledge base foreach building that is considered
an asset to it as well. So itgoes along with the keys to the
next owner.
Josh Miles, Host (17:09):
That's that's
a really interesting take that I
wouldn't have thought of, therebeing a knowledge base for the
building. What what would besome of the things that are
included in that in a givenfacility?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (17:22):
Well,
everything, to say something.
Right? All the things. You know,energy usage, the equipment,
life, you know, the life, the,the age of equipment, you know,
things that may just you're notgonna just have it on a piece of
paper.
Josh Miles, Host (17:38):
Well, it's
it's like you buy a used car
from a guy who's really takingcare of it, and he he pulls out
his binder of all the oilchanges, and every time you get
it waxed, and every time you
Michael V. Geary, CAE (17:47):
get the
Yeah. Instead of getting the
binder, you're gonna get all thefacets of what works. You know,
there's so many components in abuilding from lighting,
elevators, doorways, securitysystems, you know, etcetera,
etcetera, that it's impossibleto have all that in a three ring
binder. And so that's the kindof information that that
(18:07):
technology that software iscollecting and, having the life
cycle of it, the life history ofit so that you understand and
can use to make decisions later.So what are assets that need to
gonna be retired in at somepoint so you can plan for that
for capital planning?
Okay. This elevator has beenthere for five years. It's had
(18:29):
these issues. Well, now you canhave that centralized, and
that's what's evolving is haveall that centralized so that a
new owner or even the currentowner understands, okay. Well,
in ten years now, you when youown your home, you live in it,
and you're like, oh, I just putthe roof on, so I know I've got
twenty, thirty years.
It's just kind of a good guess.Right? You that's a you can't
(18:51):
guess at a larger officebuilding or an automobile
manufacturing plant. You know,lots of institutions,
governments, universities,health care need to plan for
decades out, and they need thatinformation to make good capital
planning decisions.
Josh Miles, Host (19:09):
You know, one
of the issues that we see a lot
in the professional servicesworld, especially, is kind of
this generational conversationabout, you know, the different
generations coming to theworkforce, but then also the
generational kind of hand medown of ownership of the of the
firms themselves. I'm curious,like, what how the generational
(19:30):
issues are specificallyimpacting your world.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (19:36):
Well, I I
think it's it's well, yeah, I
would say that some of thatexists for sure. Right? It
depends on the size of thecompanies. So meaning, people
who own companies own buildingsare not necessarily the
management. Often owners hiremanagement companies, and those
(19:57):
can be very small.
They're sort of regional orregional or city based. And
then, of course, there areglobal companies that handle
Coca Cola manufacturing plantsaround the world or or a certain
sector, certain part of theworld, they may manage Coca
Cola's plants on behalf of CocaCola owners. So the generational
things and ownership are not Idon't think are the same
(20:20):
necessarily as you would findamong engineering, architecture,
and construction firms becauseoften those start with a person
who say, oh, I wanna be anarchitect. I'm gonna start a
practice. They get a partner.
They get another partner. Theygrow a business. Same thing
people, you know, like yourselfin marketing, consulting
services, your you know, youstart off as your own, and then
you grow your book of business.And over time, you need more
(20:42):
people. And so the ownershipstructure builds differently.
That that it doesn't exist, butthe scale can be different in
design and construction. Itmight be in the facility
management facility management.But what is happening
generationally, which is, Ithink, is consistent with
everybody else is people areentering this industry, and then
(21:04):
where are the careeropportunities for them? And they
work differently too than oldergenerations. What can they do
from their homes versus havingto be in the building every day?
So they're let's say, an officebuilding. If the occupants there
are not working in the buildingnecessarily, does everyone who's
(21:24):
involved with facilitymanagement need to be in the
building to do their jobs? Mhmm.So there's certainly on-site
responsibilities to see andwitness and supervise
operations, elevators working,escalators working, etcetera.
Right?
I'm not talking about custodialactivities, but the
infrastructure is workingproperly. But there's now there
(21:46):
are things you can do from yourlaptop anywhere in the world.
Josh Miles, Host (21:49):
Sure.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (21:50):
So we
have members in our in our
organization that can that workmaybe sort of based in cities
somewhere, some country, butworking in another country
temporarily or longer termbecause they can access all the
technology and information fromwhere they are. So I I there's
the generational opportunities,I think, are very similar other
than perhaps the ownershipstructures.
Josh Miles, Host (22:11):
You know, it's
probably a a naive thought on my
part, but, you know, in my head,a facility manager is boots on
the ground literally that theyare physically at the location.
But so are there are there,like, fractional facility
managers who are managingmultiple properties, you know,
from from Tahiti or Sheboygan orwherever they're located.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (22:34):
Well,
yeah, let's talk about our,
members of our board, forexample. We have a global board
of directors who are all overthe world, and I know many of
them, have a large portfolioportfolio of businesses or
facilities that their companymanages. So they might be based
in Mexico City, but they're notjust working on they're not head
(22:57):
of facilities just for thosebuildings in Mexico City for
their client. They're looking attheir clients' businesses
everywhere. So there are peoplewho are boots on the ground for
sure, who are making sure thingsare happening and are there in
case of any emergencies,etcetera, but then so the
strategic management doesn'thave to be doesn't have to be
on-site.
(23:17):
They can be anywhere in theworld literally.
Josh Miles, Host (23:20):
That's that's
really I don't know why that it
even crossed my mind before.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (23:26):
Sure.
Yeah. You know, facility manager
is a very broad term, but whatwe're talking about is really
literally the management and thestrategic planning for
facilities. And, but it doesinclude making sure all of the
regular daily operations areoccurring also. Light bulbs are
(23:48):
being changed and toilets areworking, and, you know, there's
a custodial staff that'scleaning.
There's security on-site. But asthe Internet of Things evolves,
so many of those things don'thave to be monitored from the
building itself.
Josh Miles, Host (24:02):
Is that, the
IoT Internet of Things thing? Is
that an increasing factor in howfacilities get managed today? I
know that was a very hot topic,like, pre pandemic and sort of I
feel like I hear less about ittoday. So I'm just curious how
that's impacting your your teamsas well.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (24:22):
Yeah.
Well, absolutely. That
continues. I mean, everythingfrom, you know, beverage
machines that might be in the inthe cafeteria are connected to
Internet now. And, but also thatthe actual, equipment in the
buildings, we may think of theselittle, you know, beverage
machine or a light lightingsystem or the shades on a window
(24:44):
or or cameras, for example,you're like, of course, they're
all connected, but so are alsothe huge pieces of equipment.
The HVAC systems are allconnected now by Internet. So
the operational technology isevolving, increasing as well as
we understand the opportunities,how to use technology. So it's
all being interconnected andworking together. That's one of
(25:07):
the challenges in the designconstruction and then they hand
over to the facility managers.And this is what where if my is
putting some focus as well is,excuse me, is help helping to
understand helping design andconstructors understand that
(25:28):
when you're done, the buildingis not done.
Now the building comes to life.Mhmm. So that's where facility
management comes in. And so weneed to be connected early on
into the design and constructionprocess so that when you get to
actually managing this building,we also have all of that
information where that goes intonow how we take care of it and
(25:52):
back to the point oftransferring all over to the new
owner. But it there's adisconnect, generally speaking,
between the design andconstruction and the facility
management.
So but technology is helping tobridge that gap.
Josh Miles, Host (26:07):
Well, that
that was literally what I wanted
to ask you next was how whatrole do facility managers
typically play in the design andconstruction conversation, and
and should they be involvedearlier, or is that kind of a
handoff at the end? Or, like,what's what's that right
connection?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (26:24):
Well, of
course, the answer is yes. Yes.
They should be involved earlyon. Right? And that's one of our
mission is to part of ourmission is to, you know, be part
of that solution so that thebuilt environment is growing and
evolving, where everyone caneveryone's participating in that
process.
So, yes, it does happen. Itdoesn't happen. Depends on the
(26:46):
company, you know, currently,the ownership. You know, some
ownership companies havefacility managers who
participate in that process withthe design team, and then others
don't. And so they can they mayhave directly employed or
outsourcing that.
You know, like any any industry,there's always opportunity for
making things more Moe better asa friend of mine used
Josh Miles, Host (27:07):
to say.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (27:08):
Alright.
So we're trying to make things
Moe better by being much moreintegrated in the design,
construction, and then the,ultimately, the management of
that.
Josh Miles, Host (27:18):
Well, how
could folks in the the built
environment conversation on thedesign side or, you know,
designers and architects, youknow, how could they incorporate
the facility managers betterinto their initial plan or
recommendations?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (27:33):
Yes.
Well, you know, the couple of
things that sort of selfish, ofcourse, is, you know, going to
Ithma for solutions, And we havea whole resource library that
that's available, toindividuals, professionals to
understand the role of facilitymanagement and why you should
know about this. We're alsotrying to collaborate with and
(27:54):
have been doing this for years.And, again, as always, it's an
evolution and a growingopportunity to collaborate with
all the other organizations fromAIA, the construction managers,
construction specification, theHVAC folks. Like, there's so
many entities, you know, thatare around the built environment
that we're all trying tocollaborate and partner with
(28:15):
each other.
We are doing that, I should say.We're not trying to. We are
doing it and trying to sharethat knowledge base, but there's
so much knowledge. I wasthinking about this story the
other day with to share withyou. You know, a lot of people
eat eat, at Chick fil A.
And so when you if you get achicken sandwich at Chick fil A
(28:38):
or you get a soda, whatever itis, every time you buy something
or you ask for something, anemployee says, my pleasure.
Josh Miles, Host (28:45):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (28:46):
Here you
go. My pleasure. They all say,
my pleasure.
Josh Miles, Host (28:49):
Yes.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (28:50):
Well,
that was that started as a
request from Chick fil Aheadquarters, and they wanted
all their outlets, all theiremployees to say, my pleasure.
And you would think that's areally simple thing to put into
the training, and that wouldjust happen. Like, okay. This is
(29:12):
how you make the chickensandwich. This is how you pour
soda.
And then when you hand it tosomeone, you say, my pleasure.
Well, the analysis or the storyabout this, it actually took a
couple years before all otheroutlets said, my pleasure. So
think about the knowledge baseof design, construction, and
management. It's gonna take morethan a couple years for all of
(29:34):
us to say, my pleasure
Josh Miles, Host (29:36):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (29:37):
If you
will. And so that that is one of
the things I'm working on. Mypeers who are leading other
organizations, we talkfrequently, like, okay. What
more can we add into yourcontent base content or
knowledge base? What can you addinto our knowledge base?
So that over the years, we'llall just get better at this. And
when you design a building, youconstruct it, and then, in our
(30:01):
case, hand it over to us as,like, my pleasure. Here's a
building that's been built anddesigned cooperatively
Josh Miles, Host (30:08):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (30:09):
For sure.
But we also speak to not just,
you know, design andconstruction. We also talk to
ownership groups as well.Institutional owners,
government, or otherwise, talkabout the role and value
facility management to make surethey're involved in their
decision making as well. So it'snot just a great price per
square footage, but what is itgonna look like, and what does
(30:31):
it need five years, ten years,twenty twenty, thirty years, you
know, depending on the lease,but also what do you need
tomorrow to make sure you'reeffectively using this asset on
behalf of whether taxpayers or,you know, public or behalf of
your private clients.
You know, they're getting theright, the right value out of
their building.
Josh Miles, Host (30:49):
Okay. So maybe
this is a generalization, but
when you think about howarchitects and engineers, people
who design for a building, whatare some things that might be
surprising to them that theydon't understand about the role
of a facility manager?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (31:04):
Well, I
one thing I would think about,
Josh, first is that I don'twanna generalize too narrowly,
meaning that design education,construction standards, and
processes, and materials varyaround the world. And so I wanna
(31:29):
be careful I'm not answering onbehalf of a western society, and
this is how they happen. Right?So there's sort of gross
generalization that you couldprobably start from beginning.
One, in design education,generally, you're now learning
about you're not spending a lotof time on materials and usage.
(31:50):
There's a little bit of that inyour design education, but not a
whole lot of time. Engineers,again, generalizing the thinking
about making sure the thingdoesn't fall down, that it's the
right structure, you know, thatit can handle any sort of energy
issues or environmental issues,I should say. But the concern
(32:12):
about, like, what happens nextmain is not taught more than a
little more than a little bit.That's a technical term. More
than a little in design schoolsand in engineering schools.
I know this because I workedwith design and engineering
schools for part of my career.Mhmm. And they've always you
know, academics always say, Iwish we could do more of that.
(32:35):
But there just isn't the amountthere isn't enough time to teach
everything you need to know. So,you know, also depending on
where you are in the world,you're exposed to different
materials.
But, you know, what you're usingfor windows and doors and
exterior materials, etcetera,vary around the world in their
(32:56):
access and affordability. So butto grossly generalize that the
having not having theunderstanding of what now
happens in the next ten, twenty,thirty years for a building let
me flip it to say, if if youwere had the understanding of
that and more a more in-depthunderstanding, therefore, you
(33:20):
would may maybe make differentdecisions. And so once people
move into the building, whateverit might be, any sort of office
building or a public facility orsome sort of institutional
building, it isn't until peopleare using it they realize, oh,
this doesn't work Mhmm. Or thisis not the right material. I
(33:42):
thought it was, but now thefacility managers are the ones
who have to figure it out.
They have to budget for it. I'mnot saying these are mistakes. I
think it's just that there'sjust so much to know, the
knowledge that it's impossibleto transfer all of that from all
the to all the different partieswho are involved. When you think
about, you know, the number ofcompanies involved in designing
(34:03):
a building, whether it's a gasstation convenience store or a
shopping mall or you're buildinga UN relief center, somewhere in
the world, there's a whole lotof people and companies involved
in all that. And I knoweveryone's just trying to do
their best, but that's that'sthe whole purpose of a group
(34:25):
like IFMA and the whole purposeof, other global organizations
is to help bridge that divide.
And if we can't teach everybody,what we can do is teach the
people who are directly involvedin in managing those facilities
and give them some insight. Butthat you know, every every piece
of knowledge and professiongrows over time. So what we're
(34:46):
doing today, of course, is waybetter than it was five years
ago, ten years ago, certainly ahundred years ago, where there
may not have been a biggerconcern. We've been around for
forty five years. That tells youthat gives you some context of,
Mhmm.
Is a profession where there's aprofessional organization that's
only forty five years old. Nowwe're not the only one in the
(35:08):
world. We are the only globalorganization, but many countries
have a we have have a peerorganization of ours that
services specifically people intheir country.
Josh Miles, Host (35:18):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (35:19):
People
may may belong to both. Often,
they do. We do have we have theglobal certification program,
but there's just so muchknowledge that that what so the
answer back to your question is,like, what can we what do people
need to know? It'd be easy tosay everything, but I I think in
(35:42):
project design and delivery, ifwe can get the in the early days
for someone to maybe talk to thefacility manager of the owner
directly and say, what are whathave been the biggest challenges
that you had? Let's make surewe're designing for that to
solve those problems.
Josh Miles, Host (36:01):
Yeah. I love
that. As you know, a lot of my
experiences on the the marketingand branding side of things, so
I'm so I'm always curiousorganizations large and small
and organization as large asIFMA is. What are some of the
challenges that you have indifferentiating or getting your
story out or sort of developingyour reputation as a brand?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (36:26):
Yeah. My
pleasure. Right? I think that
story applies there. And there'sso much distraction in the
world, and this is I I don'tthink we're unique in our
challenges of providing being aservice provider is how having
(36:47):
getting to have every member inthe organization understand
what's available to themliterally at their fingers at
their fingertips or might beavailable to them locally
wherever they they belong toIthma, again, whether it's in
London or in Rome or inIndianapolis, that the network
and how valuable and importantthat can be to them.
(37:07):
Until you're in it, you don'tknow it, really. So that is, you
know, always an ongoingchallenge. It's just sort of
general awareness in what'shappening, but we're evolving
like any any organization. Weare excuse me. Of course, we're
very fortunate that we haveresources so we can invest in
technology.
(37:28):
We can invest in people to, tellour story frequently, more
effectively, whether we're usingvideo. But we also have, we're
not doing everything from ourglobal headquarters in United
States. We have people in otherparts of the world who, are also
telling the story that makessense to them and their region
to ensure that we are addressingcultural differences, geographic
(37:53):
differences, languagedifferences, etcetera. So we're
not Americanizing thisorganization. We are making sure
to the best of our ability thatif you belong in a European
chapter, you're hearing storiesand getting content in a way
that is typical for where youlive
Josh Miles, Host (38:15):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (38:15):
And not
for the way that may work in
Singapore. So we have variety ofvariety of strategies globally
to ensure that we're we'retalking to people that they they
want to be talked to, if youwill. But it all comes down to
the typical people issues.There's another story that I
(38:36):
love to tell many years ago inthe, New York Times. They used
to have a standing Sunday,column called the CEO Corner,
and they would interview a CEOof some company.
It could be national or global,and they would talk about, like,
how they got into their jobs,what are their biggest
challenges, etcetera, etcetera.And one interview, was a person
(38:57):
who's a CEO of a communicationscompany. This this is a company
that corporate America hires tohandle all their social media
for them. They may handle theironline chat, their Twitter,
Instagram, Blue Sky, whateverthey're using. Their job is to
facilitate all that on behalf ofthe company.
And, the question was to theCEO. Like, what's one of your
(39:22):
biggest challenges in yourcompany? And she said,
ironically, it is we can't allof our employees do not know
what's going on. And even thoughwe have regular staff meetings,
and this is a larger companyYeah. She says, even though we
do all these things, internalnewsletters, we have a Internet,
we have meetings, our employeesstill say, what the hell is
(39:45):
happening in my company?
What are we doing? Right? Shesays, and that's our job is to
do that on behalf of otherpeople. So Mhmm. This is sort of
the typical people issues ofencouraging people to pay
attention to read.
And it's always challenging tobe at the right place at the
right time, and so we'rethinking about that all the
time. What's our what's the nextthing? How do we use AI to
(40:09):
better communicate automaticallyfor us so we're responsive? How
do we use videos, I said? Are wein the right social media
channels?
Are we using the right imagery?The video is too long, too
short, whatever. Like, it's allthe same. It's all the same.
And, yeah, you know, AEC firms,people who do branding and
marketing for those companies.
(40:29):
Same thing.
Josh Miles, Host (40:30):
Well, you
mentioned video a couple times.
I know I'm I'm a little biasedin that video Yeah.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (40:35):
That's
why I keep saying it.
Josh Miles, Host (40:36):
Yeah. It's
now, like, over half of what I
do now is video, and, like Yeah.Even even the podcast now is
video. So, you know, we'veGoogle came out with some
report, late last year aboutYouTube and saying that the the
most successful videos werebetween something like thirteen
seconds and forty five minutes.So the the answer is the length
(40:58):
doesn't actually matter, butit's it's about how you're in
using that video to engage theaudience and, you know, are you
gonna watch an hour long podcastwith with you and I or, you
know, watch a thirteen secondclip about how crayons get made
on a conveyor belt?
And the answer is yes to allthose things if it kinda ticks
your boxes. But I'm I'm curiousspecifically in video if if
(41:20):
there's anything that thatyou've seen be successful with
IFMA. I mean, the thing that Ialways say to my my friends and
clients is, you know, this issuch a such a know, like, and
trust industry. And I I don'tknow of a medium that gets that
across better than video doesbecause it's like a like a free
sample for it's the it's theChick fil A at the mall where
(41:41):
you get to try the nugget, andthen you get to my pleasure. But
but how are you guys thinkingabout video specifically, or is
that is that a future step foryou?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (41:51):
Well, I
like I said, I don't think we
have we're any different as anorganization. It's an
organization of people servingpeople, and we understand all
that. I mean, as a leader, youknow, I can hope and dream that
people are going to watch anhour long training video. But by
the way, we want our surgeonsand our engineers and our
facility managers to watch anhour long video so they're
(42:12):
getting all the information theyneed. Right?
I don't want a thirteen secondhow to do open heart surgery,
and nor do I want someone who'smanaging and overlooking
important infrastructure, lifesafety infrastructure in a
building to watch just athirteen second video and say, I
got it. You know? So I think itdepends on context and what the
(42:33):
content is that you're trying toinform people on, and what's the
entertainment value for sure isvery important. You know? So
let's remember back, what, tenyears ago or longer, you know,
Amazon came in and, you know,they now are delivering same day
in a lot of metropolitan citiesaround the world Mhmm.
(42:56):
Or wherever Amazon's doingbusiness. Well, that's creating
an expectation on everybody.Like, I order something now, and
they're like, we'll see you inten days. I'm like, oh, do I
really want that thing? Right.
Right? Could I go somewhere elseto get it faster? So we're being
trained to change our behaviorand expectations. I'm trying I
(43:18):
was trying to learn how to useMicrosoft OneNote. It was new to
me.
It's a different system than mylast organization. Mhmm. So I'm
learning how to use OneNote tomanage my my tasks and notes,
etcetera. Never really used itbefore, so I went to YouTube and
pulled up videos. And there's,oh, this, you know, subject
line.
(43:38):
I'm like, oh, this is exactlywhat I wanna know. This is a
very specific thing. Like, howto use tags? Click on the link,
and I see twelve minutes. I'mlike, nope.
Right. I don't know. I don'tthink that should take twelve
minutes to teach me how to usetags. But Right. A little side
note, though.
You know, there is a bit of aconflict of interest because
(43:58):
YouTube is incentivizing longervideos. They want you to be on
the screen. So you can see thatwhen you are reading a, you
know, a blog even, not justYouTube, or you're watching a
video, people are intentionallymaking things or Instagram
longer, so there's more time onthe video, which is more eyes on
(44:19):
advertising. So and you can'tskip through it anymore. But
what what Google is doing orYouTube is now you get a
transcript.
And so I just read through thetranscript quickly and say, oh,
that's what I wanna know. Click.It takes me to that part of the
video. So we're not there yet toyour point your question as in
(44:42):
our training to do that, but weare we are looking at things
about making it easier totranslate videos so that our
global audience can watch ourvideos, which are primarily in
English, so they can watch it intheir language, they can choose
it. That's a very expensive andlong term proposition, but
(45:04):
that's something we're gonnahave to work we are working on.
But, you know, back to myearlier point, it depends on
what the content is. So somethings are just you have to take
time to read it or watch it, andsome things you can get done in
a quick snippet. But that also,I think, expresses or or
something built into that as avalue of why you should go to in
(45:25):
person events, because you canget information more quickly
sitting in the room and dofollow-up as well that you're
not gonna get online. So youneed both. History, many years
ago, this is my last story ofthe past.
Well, I've been in this businessa long time. Twenty five years
(45:49):
ago or maybe longer whensatellite technology became
affordable, many of you mayremember Kinkos. Remember Kinkos
is where you went to get thingsphotocopied. And Kinkos is now I
think, that was bought by FedEx.It's now a FedEx office.
But back in the day, satellitetechnology is becoming a thing,
(46:09):
and Kinko set up satellitestudios in their bill in their,
retail outlets. So you could goto a Kinko studio and connect by
satellite to another Kinkostudio where your colleagues
would be having meetings. You'dhave a meeting over satellite.
This is before Internet. Mhmm.
Mhmm. And everybody thought, ohmy god. That's the end of
conferences. Why would you everget on a plane anymore? You
(46:33):
could just go down to yourneighborhood Kinkos, or you
could go down to the localcommunity college.
They were also doing the samething. They were creating
studios out of for satellitestudios as a as a profit
generating activity for thecolleges. Like, that's it. We're
never going to conferencesagain. Guess what?
We're still going toconferences. We still have a
social need to be together. Sotechnology will not erase that,
(46:55):
fortunately. Now pandemics willget in the way, but as soon as
we could get back in the roomtogether, we all got back in the
room together. So we need video.
We need in person. You know,technology is not gonna solve
all of these issues for us.
Josh Miles, Host (47:11):
So one of the
things I remember you saying it
even early days at S and PS is,know, having worked with all
these other associations, you'relike, I I know it's a totally
different association. We've gotdifferent goals. There are so
many similarities in how youwork with the board and work
with the membership and howdecisions get made and things
like that. Yep. So I'm I'mcurious coming to IFMA, kind of
(47:32):
what some of your even thoughyou promised not to tell another
historical story, I'm asking youanother historical question
here.
So you Yeah. This you get a freepass. So what are what do you
find that you're bringing tothis either from your past
association work or what otherindustries are you looking to
that you're thinking, you know,along the lines of Amazon? Like,
(47:52):
do we do it faster? What arewhat are some of the things that
are are driving the change thatyou wanna see?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (47:58):
Yes.
Well, fortunately, we do have
companies like Amazon and, youknow, Google and Meta, etcetera,
who they are spending the moneyon the wild wild west, on the
frontier of technologyimprovements. And then later,
(48:20):
you know, we're down the line,we will get used to that too.
And so the affordability gets,you know, the affordability
comes along eventually. And butwe also have an obligation or
expectation that we're going tohave to keep up with what these
corporate corporations are doingbecause they're as I said
(48:41):
earlier, they're setting theexpectation for customer
service, for delivery, etcetera.
I mean, even the things thatthat's necessarily an ifma
thing, but just something wehaven't really mentioned is, you
know, if you order somethingfrom Amazon or Wayfair here in
the here in The US anyway,Wayfair sends you the wrong
thing. You call them up and say,I wanted blue. You sent me
(49:02):
purple. They'll say, great. Keepit.
Don't send it back to us becauseit it's too much effort and
money to send it back to us.
Josh Miles, Host (49:11):
Right.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (49:12):
Right?
So, you know, that's kind of
becoming an expectation now. Ifyou screw it up, you better make
it right. I mean, that's theysay differently. Mhmm.
You always expect a company tomake it right, but now the right
is like, just keep the thing,and we're not gonna worry about
it. So that's a yeah. I thinkthat's emerging as a customer
expectation. You know, don'tmake me give you back the coffee
(49:34):
that's bad. I'd like to keep anddrink it even though it's not
like the way I wanted it, but goahead and give me the one that I
really wanted.
So from other organizations, Iyou know, what how organizations
like IFMA and SMPS and, youknow, name in a good name in
organization from association tolocal charitable organization.
(49:57):
Probably two things that areimportant. One is good
governance and that you have aboard that selected you have the
right people selected to be on aboard, that they're bringing
some they're obviously bringingthe the right experience to what
their responsibilities are. Theyunderstand their
(50:18):
responsibilities. And a lot ofthe job or responsibility of a
board is to be strategic and bethinking down the road.
What is going to happen withthis food bank or this housing
relief agency or IFMA that weneed to think about three, four,
five years down the road? Tenyears is way too long now. It's
(50:38):
really kind of three years iskind of a horizon at at this
point because the world isconstantly evolving very
quickly. So really goodgovernment governance that you
have the right people sitting inthe boardroom helping to make
decisions. And then the otherthing and these are all people
issues.
You're having the right peopleif you have you're able to
excuse me. Whether you're payingpeople or they're volunteers,
(51:02):
you're selecting the rightpeople, which is what you hope
you're doing, but the point Iwanna make is that you're
training them, that you'regiving them an opportunity to
learn skills. You can tell whenyou go to McDonald's which
employees have been trained andwhich have not. What
Josh Miles, Host (51:20):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (51:21):
You can
see a difference between and I
worked at McDonald's long timeago as a shift manager. In my
store where I worked, you didnot go on the front line unless
you were trained
Josh Miles, Host (51:35):
Mhmm.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (51:35):
Period.
And or you weren't cooking until
you were trained. And the store,you just kinda sucked it up as a
manager to say, well, I can'tlet, you know, Bob get out on
the front line yet because he'snot seen the customer service
videos yet. We're watching videoback then, VHS tapes or beta.
Actually, they're beta tapes.
Josh Miles, Host (51:55):
You gotta
wheel the television in.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (51:57):
Yep. We
we had a television on the cart.
You have to watch, you know, theyou had to watch a video about
the the brand of McDonald's.You'd have to watch a video
about how to run the register.Then there was a separate video
on how to bag food.
There's a lot of training thatwent into before you were
allowed to be on their frontline. And since I know that and
(52:19):
now that everybody yourlisteners know this, you can
figure out, like, which storeMcDonald's is taking the time to
train people. Mhmm. And so thatis the people issue in any
organization that you'retraining your people, you're
you're coaching them, you'remanaging, you're supervising,
(52:40):
whatever it is so that theycould be successful. So I that's
you know, to your question, whatdo I bring into IFMA is I've
been fortunate to work inorganizations that had good
strong cultures around that,cultures I also get impact and
effect to, ensure that we wereselecting and then, preparing
people for success.
(53:00):
And, fortunately, IFMA has thesame attitude, and that's
something we'll continue on. Ihave three three words that I
use with our team all the time,things that are my priorities,
which are people, culture, andgrowth. And they all go
together, like personal growth,organizational growth. People
and culture, culture affectspeople, growth. It's all
(53:22):
interconnected.
And if you think about it,again, if you can visit
different retailers wherever youare in the world based on where
the culture is in that country,it's gonna differ. But you can
tell if people are taking thetime to talk about culture and
growth and and people issueswith their with their employees.
Starbucks, I think, is a goodmodel that you can tell
(53:45):
everyone's been trained. Theyare not taking your order unless
they have had some training,and, therefore, they're gonna
get it right most of the time.And so that's, I think, an
important lesson.
I always make sure that there'sa budget for professional
development. When I'm in theprocess of being recruited to be
a CEO, there's something I talkabout with the recruitment
(54:06):
committee is ensuring that therewill be resources available to
the team for their professionaldevelopment. On day one at
Ithma, I said to the team, thereare resources, and I'm gonna
make sure you continue to havethem because it's important for
me and important for theorganization that you're
investing in yourself, and wewill make that available to you.
Josh Miles, Host (54:29):
Well, I love
that quote about, you know, what
if what if we invest in all thisprofessional development in our
team and they leave, and thenthe CEO says, well, what if we
don't and they stay?
Michael V. Geary, CAE (54:40):
Yes. I
actually have that as a graphic,
and I show that in my firstmeeting with our IFMA team. And
I said, that's how committed Iam to this, just to be kinda
really candid. I I didn't usethese words, but the the
implication is we want youworking here, and we're gonna
make sure you're successfulhere. Yeah.
(55:01):
I don't want you here to not besuccessful. Mhmm. And I want you
to know that we got your back,and we'll take care of you and
and all the ways that we cantake care of you. That is the
people issue. And, Josh, you andI may remember back when we were
working together at S and PSduring the pandemic, we
identified those priorities.
We reinforced those prioritiesat that time. Mhmm. I remember
you and I talked about this. Youwere the CMO and some of our
(55:24):
other executive staff. And wesaid our priority is to take
care of the people, both ouremployees and our members, to
the best of our ability that wecould do that.
And if we do that well, then,we'll be taking care of the
organization. And these theseare not profound things. We just
have to say it over and over andover again so we can't forget
(55:45):
it. You know, Barnes and Nobleis full of books, but it's
pretty simple stuff. Just focuson the people, and everything
else will happen.
Josh Miles, Host (55:53):
Yeah. So
simple. It sounds profound. I
think that's, that's probably agood place to leave it. Tell
our, our listeners where theycan find more about, you and
IFMA.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (56:04):
Well, you
might be surprised to learn that
our URL is ifma.org, IFMA Org.And there, you can learn about
all the things that we're doing,access our resources, learn
about our our membershipopportunities, our our things
that we care about. They're allon that website as well. So
that's where you'll find me findIFMA, and then you can find me,
(56:26):
of course, on LinkedIn. It'sjust Michael Geary.
Just put me in the search bar,and you can you'll find my
profile there.
Josh Miles, Host (56:32):
Well, Mike, it
was great catching up with you
over this interview. We'll haveto do this in person Yes, next
time, though.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (56:39):
Yeah.
I've enjoyed it. Thank you,
Josh.
Josh Miles, Host (56:41):
Yeah. Thanks
so much. Yeah. We'll see you
next time.
Michael V. Geary, CAE (56:43):
Okay.
Josh Miles, Host (56:45):
Thank you for
joining us today on the Bold
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