February 3, 2025 • 62 mins
Want more calm and less conflict with your teen? What if transforming your family's communication dynamic could be as simple as a shift in mindset? Join Dr. Amy and Sandy for an engaging episode with guest Jeanine Mouchawar, a seasoned life coach for parents, as she shares her journey from conflict to connection with teenagers. Jeanine's personal parenting experiences with academic stress, social media pressures, and ADHD challenges led her to embrace new strategies for parenting teens. In this conversation, you'll gain insights into how these techniques can restore harmony and foster open communication within your own family.
Discover new tips for effective communication in parenting teens, rooted in the principles of Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) and cognitive behavioral concepts. We discuss the pivotal role of understanding the teenage transition to adulthood and adapting communication styles to support them rather than solving their problems for them. Jeanine shares how maintaining core values while fostering curiosity and encouraging teens to discover their own insights can lead to healthier relationships. By learning to manage emotions and use non-judgmental language, parents can create a supportive environment that empowers their teens.
Explore practical strategies for setting boundaries that respect and engage teenagers without resorting to control or punishment. Jeanine emphasizes the importance of validating emotions to strengthen connection and communication, helping teens process feelings like stress and embarrassment. By involving them in boundary-setting conversations, parents can guide them towards better decision-making and independence. This episode promises valuable insights for nurturing confidence and self-assurance in your teens, ultimately leading to a more harmonious home life.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Amy Moore (00:02):
Hi, smart moms and dads.
We're so happy you're here withus for another episode of the
Brainy Moms podcast, brought toyou today by LearningRx Brain
Training Centers.
I'm your host, dr Amy Moore,coming to you today from
Colorado Springs, colorado, andI am joined by my co-host, sandy
Zimalis, coming to us fromVirginia, and Sandy and I are
(00:22):
super excited to welcome ourguest today, janine Mouchoir.
Janine is a life coach forparents of teenagers.
She helps make parenting easierby teaching new communication
strategies that reduce conflictand create calm.
Parents learn how to teachtheir teens cooperation,
responsibility and critical lifeskills to empower them for
(00:43):
success.
In the process, they create thepositive, meaningful
relationship they've alwaysimagined.
Janine earned her BA fromStanford University and is a
certified professional lifecoach.
She's married and has threeadult children.
Welcome, janine.
Jeanine Mouchawar (00:59):
Thank you, amy and Sandy, it's great to be
here.
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, we're excited that you'rewith us.
Sandy Zamalis (01:06):
Janine, we're so glad to talk to you today
because parenting teens isreally a difficult topic in
general, and we're ready to jumpin.
In fact, we started a littlebit, so I want to keep that
continuation of the conversationgoing.
So tell us about yourself soeverybody can join us, about how
you got interested in coachingparents and specifically about
raising teens.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, like you said, I havethree adult children, so I've
been through as I've beenthrough being a parent of the
teenage years.
I'm just to share my experience.
I felt like, as the kids werelittle and growing up, I
parented intuitively and youknow there's lots of resources
(01:49):
out there in addition and sothings went pretty smooth.
And then we got to the teenageyears and I just felt like
conflict and tension and chaosset in.
I felt like I was really facedwith a lot of different
parenting challenges that Iwasn't equipped to handle
(02:12):
effectively.
So, like my daughter was myoldest, you know she was an
overachieving student who lovedto do well and participate in
everything and consequently, itwas challenging to try to help
her navigate the overwhelm, thestress that she put on herself,
(02:33):
the anxiety that would becreated because she was so
focused on doing well on a test.
She also started, you know shewas a middle schooler when
phones first came out and inhigh school as social media apps
started to come out and thatyou know, as many of us know, we
(02:55):
didn't grow up with and wedon't have a lot of tools in our
toolbox or skills on how tonavigate that and help our kids
like feeling good and confidentabout ourselves.
So those were sort of thechallenges I was dealing with
her, my middle one.
He was diagnosed with ADD and alearning disability at a very
(03:19):
young age and I found when wegot to the teenage years his
thinking became more exaggeratedin terms of black and white
thinking, struggling to takeresponsibility, more blaming
others.
There was riskier behaviorgoing on and all those things
(03:48):
were again very challenging toparent and to navigate where I
could keep the calm in the houseand the connection going.
And then my youngest, who's 21now he's actually in Texas, like
yours, sandy, or one of yours,sandy, or one of yours.
He was a very different childas well.
He was very emotionallysensitive, emotionally in touch,
(04:20):
which was super fun to parentthat, but also can be
challenging to help him navigatethose big emotions.
He sort of came up in theramping up of the time of video
games and so I remember lookingat him playing video games all
the time and noticing I washaving thoughts of you're lazy,
do your homework, you know, getoff those games.
All those common parentingthoughts I think that come up
(04:43):
when we see our kids on videogames or apps or their phone all
the time and also he just neverreally found his people in high
school.
So helping him navigate that aswell and also just being the
younger sibling of, you know, abrother who has ADD and the
challenges that come with that,that was hard for him to
(05:05):
navigate as well and hard for meto help and support him.
And so what I was noticing isthat what had been a calm and
peaceful home was now we werebutting heads and there were
battles going on and we werearguing and I just didn't like
how I was showing up.
You know, I found myselftracking them on the phone
(05:25):
because I was scared or worried,because I thought they had lied
and punishing and that felt bad, the whole dynamic that was
going on.
I just felt like there's justgot to be a better way, and so I
ended up going to a parentingprogram that was taught a lot of
dialectical behavioral therapyskills and as I transformed my
(05:50):
way of communicating to my kidswith some of these skills, I
started seeing this amazingchange in our dynamic and we
just the connection came back.
The calm came back.
We were able to talk aboutthese topics that were really
felt so difficult to talk aboutbefore we had.
Like, these tools and strategiesgave us a structure to be able
(06:12):
to have these conversationswhere my kids felt good.
I felt good and you know wewere able to bring some of that
joy back in the house that weused to have.
And so I guess at that point Ijust thought this is crazy.
Every parent should know theseskills.
It's more important thancalculus or geometry, for that
matter and you know this shouldreally be taught to everybody.
(06:36):
And I just thought, you know Iwant to try to get this
information into as many handsof parents as possible, and so I
take my 26 years of parentingexperience, combined with some
of these new strategies Ilearned and coaching techniques
and strategies, and that's kindof how that led me to being a
(06:56):
life coach for parents of teens.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:59):
I love that, and I love that so many parents get
through the teen years andthey're like, hallelujah, we are
done, right, done, and younever want to look back right.
Those were the hardest five,six, seven years of your life so
far.
And so, instead of having thatmentality, you said, oh my gosh,
(07:20):
let's lean in and help otherparents.
And then you have to sit inthat space right Again and again
and again now with more parents, but knowing what you know and
are excited to share it.
I love that.
You said that your coachingprogram was based on DBT and,
(07:40):
like I talk all the time aboutthe importance of that.
You know increasing ourtolerance for stress, and so we
can't do that if we're in Hulkbrain, right.
And so when we're upset and ouramygdala hijacks our prefrontal
cortex and we're in this Hulkbrain, we can't think clearly,
(08:02):
we can't think clearly, we can'tcommunicate clearly, and so we
have to figure out ways to keepourselves in Bruce Banner brain,
help our kids co-regulate andstay in Bruce Banner brain so
that we can all communicateeffectively, right.
When instead, what's reallyhappening out there is
everybody's screaming ateverybody else because it's just
a bunch of hulks running aroundour house, us included.
Jeanine Mouchawar (08:24):
Yeah, totally .
Oh, I love your analogy.
I love the Hulk.
Bruce Banner versus the Hulk.
That one's going to stick withme, amy, I love it.
That's so true though.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:35):
For that.
I learned that in my traumatherapist certification training
, but still it stuck with me too, which is why I continue to
share that.
Jeanine Mouchawar (08:47):
Yeah, and I'm sure that resonates Sorry,
sandy, I just know thatresonates with so much of you,
so many of your audience who areparents of teens, because you
know just that visual of beingthe Hulk and the anger that
comes out and the frustrationright Like.
I think we all feel that quiteoften with our teenagers.
You know they know how to pushour buttons.
Sandy Zamalis (09:09):
Yeah, so can we give our listeners kind of a
generic definition of what DBTis, in case they're hearing us
for the first time?
And Amy, I don't know if youwant to jump in.
Dr. Amy Moore (09:18):
and Janine, can share your side too.
No, Janine, go for it.
This is your hour.
Jeanine Mouchawar (09:22):
Oh gosh, amy, I don't know about that.
My definition of DBT skills isvery layman.
I am not an expert in DBT, soyou feel free to expand on
whatever I say.
My knowledge is basically sortof this.
Well, there's a few things thatgo on.
There's some principles, liketwo things can be true at the
(09:44):
same time.
That is a powerful principle touse when I'm coaching parents,
because we tend to think it's anall or nothing kind of way of
thinking which can really keepus stuck.
There are four pillars.
There's mindfulness, emotionregulation, interpersonal
communication and what's thefourth, walking the middle path?
(10:08):
Is that the fourth one, if youremember?
Or those?
That's how it was taught to meand the program I went through.
But I think the takeaways for mewith the DBT skills a couple of
things.
One, the huge thing, which isalso a piece of cognitive
behavioral therapy, right, isthat our thoughts impact our
(10:31):
feelings and emotions and it'sreally that's what happens
before we take action.
And that concept alone mostpeople aren't familiar with or
even aware of, that, at least Icome in contact with.
And so, talking about thatconcept that your thoughts
create your feelings and thatcreates your actions, and
(10:52):
understanding that one forourselves and two when we look
at our children and think aboutwhat's motivating them to make
certain choices.
If we can back it up andrealize, gosh, let's get to the
root cause of the problem, whichis what are they thinking or
feeling that's causing thataction?
You're, in a way, moreeffective and powerful position
(11:17):
to help them and for yourrelationship.
So again, I know components ofDBT.
Um, please feel, pleaseenlighten everyone more than
that.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:28):
No, absolutely.
And so I think, um, emotionregulation and distress
tolerance are very are are verysimilar, right?
And so we look, becausemindfulness actually, which is
one of the pillars, actuallyhelps us with distress tolerance
.
It actually increases ourcapacity for distress.
(11:48):
But it also helps with emotionregulation too, because those
mindfulness practices that wecan learn and teach as part of a
DBT program actually help breakthat fight, flight or freeze
cycle and kind of reduce theamount of cortisol coursing
through our veins so that we canregulate our emotions.
(12:10):
And that isn't something thatwe can do again if we're in Hulk
brain.
And so DBT sort of builds onthe cognitive behavioral therapy
movement by saying wait aminute, it's not just about
thoughts, feelings and behaviors, it's also about the
interpersonal neurobiologythat's going on in the brain,
(12:33):
and so we have to be able toharness some of that as well.
So I love hearing that acoaching program is adopting
that as well, because it shouldbe.
These should be practices thatare accessible to everyone, not
just available through aclinician's office.
Jeanine Mouchawar (12:55):
I love that.
I love that and, honestly, whenI went through coach
certification, I was just amazedat how much crossover there was
between the things I waslearning to become a coach and
DBT skills.
It was very synergistic and itwas why I think I'm able to
(13:16):
integrate all of that into mypractice today.
I love how there's a lot ofcrossover there.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:23):
Yeah, well, that's fantastic, all right.
I love how there's a lot ofcrossover there.
Yeah, oh, that's fantastic, allright.
So let's talk about just let'sgo to the basics.
Why is it so difficult toparent teens what is happening
that changes on their 13thbirthday, where, all of a sudden
, everything we've been doingfor the last 12 years and three,
(13:44):
four days no longer works?
Jeanine Mouchawar (13:48):
Yeah, right.
How does that happen?
I believe there's a few thingscontributing to that.
I think one is that we all knowour teens are in a massive
transition, right when they hit13,.
Like, we're all aware of that.
We see it in front of our veryeyes.
(14:08):
Where I noticed the gap was,for me and in helping my clients
, is that we don't recognizethat that means we need to
transition as well.
Right, because our teens nowthey need something different
from us than they needed whenthey were little, right?
(14:31):
Sometimes I think about it aslike.
I think about how curious youryounger child was asking you all
these questions, right, wantingto know your thoughts about
things and your advice andrelishing your life lessons as
you taught them about the world.
They were so curious and you gotto provide your wisdom and in
(14:55):
return, we were, in essence,rewarded with smiles and
appreciation and snuggles andlove, and appreciation and
snuggles and love.
And I think the real challengehere is when they become a
teenager is we really need toflip that around, and it's time
for us to get curious aboutwhat's going on from them, and
(15:19):
they want to come up with theirown wisdom, and so the question
is how can we come to them froma place of curiosity and support
them in coming up with theirown solutions to things, because
that's really what they want.
And so the breakdown that Ithink that happens for a lot of
us is that we don't realize thattheir needs, what they need
(15:44):
from us, has transitioned, andso we kind of stay stuck in our
old ways and our old patterns,because that's what felt good,
so it got wired into our nervoussystem right, and so, of course
, we want to keep doing it.
And so when we show up rightexplaining, hey, you should
really do this, or you need todo this, or here's the right way
(16:08):
to do things right, or tryingto fix something that you think
might be broken, when we dothese, we're doing it with such
beautiful intention and alsobecause it always worked in the
past.
But what happens now?
When we do that is right?
The battles ensue, the fighting,the conflict, the butting heads
.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:30):
So then, do we change our values or do we
change our communication style?
How do we need to make?
What adaptations do we have tomake?
Jeanine Mouchawar (16:43):
Yeah, I believe that what we need to do
is change our communicationstyle.
I mean, I think that for mostof us, probably, you know our
values.
Our big picture values aresafety right.
For most of us, again,generalizing trust, honesty,
responsibility, family right,and I'm not sure if those I mean
(17:05):
for me, at least those didn'tchange.
But what needed to change ishow I communicated with my teens
.
Right, it was time tocommunicate in a new way, in a
different way, where they couldactually hear what I was saying
and be receptive to the guidancethat I wanted to give.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:26):
So what does that look like?
Jeanine Mouchawar (17:28):
Yeah, well, that's for.
What I do when I'm working withclients is I start with
teaching a five step process,and the first step is getting
calm ourselves, right.
So we see this behavior that'sreally scary or really worrisome
, or aggravating, ordisappointing, right, maybe
(17:52):
they're disrespectful, or wethink they're lazy because of
their video games, or they'rebeing promiscuous, or drinking,
or smoking or lying I mean nameany of the behaviors that all of
us, as parents of teens, rightLike red flag, red flag.
And so what happens is, when wesee these behaviors and we
(18:15):
start feeling worried and scaredor angry, we just can't resist
the urge to have a conversationwith them.
Right then, right there.
And the thing to be aware of is,like, when we enter a
conversation with those realheated emotions, our teen is
going to feel that energy fromus and it's going to repel them.
(18:40):
It's very uncomfortable for themto feel that, and so that tends
to be right away they eithershut down, you know, they push
you away, they yell go away, getout of my room, other kids
might pay lip service to you,but you know they're not really
listening.
And so the first thing that Iwork on with clients is learning
(19:04):
how, what works for you to calmyour emotions down what are you
thinking that's sparking allthe worry and the fear or the
anger?
And really to take the time sothat you are responding with
intention, calmly, from yourwise mind, instead of like
(19:25):
reacting emotionally.
You know from the hip, andthat's really the first step,
before you know slow things downbecause you want to engage them
in a conversation, and it'simpossible to engage them in a
conversation if they're feelingyour anger, your worry, your
stress, your frustration, ifthey're feeling your anger, your
(19:46):
worry, your stress, yourfrustration.
Dr. Amy Moore (19:47):
There's nothing magical about the type of ways
that you are teaching parents tocalm down right Like any
breathing exercises, groundingexercises, mindfulness is that
what you're referring to?
Jeanine Mouchawar (20:01):
Yeah, I mean, I've got a whole host of you
know options to share withpeople.
You know, just real briefly,with your audience, a real quick
thing you can do is think aboutyour five senses, right?
So touch, what calms you downwith touch, like is does petting
your dog or your cat calm youdown?
Is that soothing?
(20:22):
Right?
What calms you down?
Listening?
Is there certain music, youknow, that feels calming to you?
So you can think about yourfive cents.
If something doesn't come toyour mind right away of how to
calm yourself down, right, youcan think about those five
senses.
You know, when I'm working withclients, you know, sometimes
people will say they want totake a walk outside or go for a
(20:44):
quick run, or even, like on mywindow right now, like, just
look at nature, look at thetrees.
That can be calming.
Obviously, like what you said,breathing exercises can be
calming.
And then, as we work togetherfor a longer period of time, we
go deeper in terms of whatexactly are you thinking that's
causing these feelings to comeup?
(21:05):
And you know, what do you wantto do?
Excuse me, you know, with thosethoughts, you know.
So we'd work on maybe somemantras you can say to yourself,
like a few that I love, arethis is just for today, or this
is just for today, not forever,right?
Or maybe it's something thatsay they are addicted to the.
(21:36):
You think they're addicted toan app?
Right, you can look at this aswell.
It's hard to resist and controlyourself when something's very
compelling, and so this is justa life skill that we need to
learn, and my child hasn'tlearned this skill yet.
So there's a few things we cansay to ourselves as well that
(21:57):
can be calming.
So there's just a few examples,but ultimately, amy, it's
really I like to talk to clientsand ask them like well, what
works for you?
Right?
We're all different, differenthuman beings, and somebody who
meditates might not work forsomebody else who needs to go
take a run.
Sandy Zamalis (22:15):
So it sounds like what you're saying is that you
know, really, at the root, alarge percentage of the time
it's a parent's fear that's, youknow, manifesting, and then
it's being received by the childor the teenager as a lack of
trust.
So you're in this constantstate of you know, especially in
(22:36):
the teenage years, becauseyou've spent, you know, up until
13, your whole your parent lifeprotecting them from all things
and then all of a sudden thatshift has to happen and you know
it's like giving a child who'snever had a driving lesson the
keys to the car right.
You're just letting them go outin the world and make mistakes
and the stakes are so muchhigher if there's any mistakes
(22:58):
along the way.
So I would think helping themidentify, helping a parent
identify that fear and how thatkind of can manifest in you know
, control or anger or otherthings down the road, is just
super beneficial.
At least on that you know, justacknowledging that one little
piece.
What are you afraid of?
Jeanine Mouchawar (23:19):
Yes, yeah, no , that's so true, and I love how
you said when we approach themwith these high emotions, you
know you said that they feellike we don't trust them.
I think that was what you said.
And, yeah, it's like we are.
We're sending a message like wedon't think you're capable,
Right, we don't think you'resmart enough fall into the
(23:41):
pattern of telling them whatthey should do or they need to
do, or trying to fix the problem.
That's the message that they'regetting, that you know you don't
believe in me, you don't trustme, you don't think I'm capable
enough, and so, of course, noneof us want to intentionally send
that message, and so it's justrecognizing that, oh wait, when
(24:03):
I talk to them the way I used to, that's not what they were
taking in, that wasn't themessage they were receiving, but
now that is the message thatthey're receiving.
And so how can I talk to themin a way where they feel
empowered to make their ownchoices and they feel like we
believe in them and we trustthem, that they are capable, and
(24:27):
also, like you were saying withthe driver's example, right,
it's like they're still in thesafety of your home.
It's just your role in terms ofhow much you're involved in
keeping them safe needs toevolve as they're evolving.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:46):
Yeah, all right, so first step get calm ourselves
.
Jeanine Mouchawar (24:59):
All right, step number two yeah, so step
two is based in the DBT skills Ilearned, which is basically
just stating your observation.
Right, so let's say you findout they got a D on the test,
you know.
You say something like, hey, Inoticed you got a D on the test
versus what you know, what areyou doing?
You got a D on the test that'sbecause you were, you know, on
your phone late at night andright, that's how it.
(25:19):
That was old me, that's how Iwould say.
Right, so it's, it's such agreat powerful skill.
That's not easy, but I try tomake these steps simple and
doable, and the and the, thereasoning behind just trying to
state your observation is thatthe idea is to put yourself in a
(25:41):
position that eliminates toneand judgment from your words and
from your voice.
Right, so, for that's hard, sohard so hard.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:53):
Well, so you can't just observation without
paying attention to your tone.
Then right, like you can't go.
So I see you got a D on a testright, which is very different
than so.
I noticed that you got a D onyour test 100%.
Jeanine Mouchawar (26:09):
So it is a combination right.
So I gave you a script that youcan use which is, I noticed,
blank, fill in the blank.
But it also comes with step oneright, which is calming your
(26:30):
own emotions.
So you're not launching into aconversation with making
assumptions, right, about whythey got a D on the test.
That's when we get stuckjudging them and they feel that
judgment from us, right.
So we want to try to reallytone down the tone and the
judgment and what we're saying,because the whole idea here is
we're trying to engage them in aconversation and invite them
(26:51):
into a conversation.
They're not going to want toengage and feel invited if they
think you're judging them.
So you know, I help clientswith scripts and I just love the
phrase starting with I noticed,because it helps keep some of
the tone out and well, maybe notthe tone, but the judgment of
(27:12):
your words.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:13):
So we know, having raised our teenagers that
many times, their response willbe one word, one word, that's
all we get.
So let's say that I approach myteenager in a very calm myself
manner and I say hey, I noticedthat you got a D on your test.
(27:36):
And they go yep, okay, yeah,where's?
Jeanine Mouchawar (27:42):
the rest of the conversation.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:46):
So what do I say next?
Jeanine Mouchawar (27:47):
You just introduced step three, amy.
So step three is to come to theconversation with curiosity,
right?
You want to ask a curiousquestion and that might sound
something.
Again, you want to keep itsimple, super simple, so you
don't start layering in youropinion on the whole thing.
(28:07):
It can be as simple.
As I noticed, you got a D on thetest.
What happened?
Now, sometimes you might get anI don't know shrug, right.
But when you ask a whatquestion?
Really, from truly being curious, like I wonder what happened
(28:30):
they're more apt to be a littlemore forthcoming about what is
going on.
Right?
What's going on inside of themthat they got a D?
I mean, maybe it was becausethey were feeling overwhelmed,
because they had a ton ofdifficult classes and they had
tests that they took, and thenthey went to soccer practice and
then they had to go jump overto the theater and go do their
(28:53):
role in that and communityservice.
I mean, these kids have so muchon their plates that maybe they
got a D on a test because theywere feeling overwhelmed or
feeling pressure, and so we wantto try to get at what's going
on underneath the behaviorthat's concerning us, right?
What's going on in their headand how are they feeling that's
(29:16):
causing the D right?
Or causing them to drink orsmoke or whatever, just be
disrespectful, be mean to theirbrother?
There's something going onunderneath that and that's what
we're trying to get to, and wedo that through coming from a
place of compassion becausewe've quieted our own fears and
(29:38):
worries and a place of curiosity.
So what I will say is you willget trapped if you ask a why
question most likely right.
So we want to steer clear of awhy question, right, why'd you
get a D on the test right?
Those why questions tend to belaced with judgment.
(29:59):
If you think about you know,whatever your kid coming in, why
didn't you make dinner?
Or why didn't you do my laundry, right it tends to come with
judgment and tone, a whyquestion.
So you want to try to stickwith what questions.
Again, we're trying to invitethem into a conversation and
really connect with them andfind out, like what's going on
(30:22):
with you that's causing thisbehavior.
So we're trying to figure outwhy, without asking why.
Sandy Zamalis (30:31):
Do you get to ask how questions?
Jeanine Mouchawar (30:34):
How works too ?
I love that, Sandy.
How are we going?
Sandy Zamalis (30:38):
to remedy this situation.
What's your plan?
Jeanine Mouchawar (30:42):
Yeah, right, okay, so that's step five.
You're jumping ahead.
Oh sorry, right, okay, sothat's step five.
You're jumping ahead.
Oh sorry, that's okay, I loveit.
Yeah, right, and just noticelike we, as parents, we do
always want to judge.
We always tend to jump to howare you going to remedy the
situation?
And just to know, okay, we gotto slow that urge down, right,
(31:03):
because we want to first engagethem and connect with them.
Like, if we don't start thereand really understand what
they're feeling, what the rootcause is of the behavior,
they're not going to be able totell you how they're going to do
something differently.
Sandy Zamalis (31:20):
Right and you want to engage that executive
functioning building for themtoo, because this is now their
problem, and you want to bethere to kind of help guide the
process, but not maybenecessarily, you know, run the
process, help have them thinkthose things through.
Jeanine Mouchawar (31:36):
Exactly that's.
That's what we're going for,right?
So they, like you said, theybuild that executive functioning
, or I call it life skills.
They build those life skills,those problem solving skills.
You know, that's my layman'sterm because I am not a
therapist.
Dr. Amy Moore (31:53):
So what about the child?
What about the teen who runs onhigh emotion all the time and
immediately responds with whyare you yelling at me, right?
Are you yelling at me?
Right?
You're not yelling, but anytype of interrogation, even if
it's just perceived,particularly with you know,
(32:17):
teens with ADHD.
We know that 98% of adolescentswith ADHD have rejection
sensitive dysphoria, right, sothey cannot regulate their
emotions well.
They automatically think thatthey're being judged, rejected
or they've let you down.
So how do you respond and lowerthe temperature on that?
Jeanine Mouchawar (32:40):
Yeah, you just described my relationship
with one of my children, so thatreally hits home with me and
I'll say, out of the gates, it'schallenging, you know, it is
really tough.
But when you can stay calm andreflect back what you're seeing,
which is basically a version ofstep two, you know, in a calm
(33:01):
manner, and say something likeyou know, you seem angry, right,
that's it like you seem angry,right, that's it Like you seem
angry.
What's going on?
Because I have been in yourexact shoes where I was not
yelling, right, and they saystop yelling at me and you're,
you know, a natural reaction asa parent is to say I'm not
yelling at you and all of asudden you're yelling, I'm not
(33:25):
yelling at you, right, we getdefensive because it feels so
unjust, like wait, I wasn'tyelling, I was calm, right.
And so it's just to again take aminute, take a beat, take a
breath, because it doesn't feelgood when somebody accuses you
of yelling and you know you'renot, but just to realize, like
(33:45):
you said, they're experiencingsome emotions that they're
having trouble coping with anddealing with and their coping
mechanism is to throw it back onyou, right, to deflect, and so
to realize okay, wait, reallythe opportunity here is try to
help get at what are theyfeeling and help them feel like,
(34:10):
listen, nothing is wrong withyou for feeling that way, like
it's okay.
I understand, I get it, you knownothing's wrong with you.
So, yeah, we come back kind ofwith that.
Step two of just another way ofyou know I think I said stating
(34:30):
an observation.
This is another form ofobserving where you're just
reflecting back calmly what yousee, so they gives them a beat
to realize oh wait, mom didn'tget pissed off that, I said that
and it allows, like you weresaying, their brain to calm down
so they can use their frontalcortex and access some of what's
(34:51):
going on for them and inside ofthem.
Sandy Zamalis (34:55):
It's beautiful.
So what's the next step afterthe what questions?
So we asked our what questions,yeah.
Jeanine Mouchawar (35:01):
We want to get to that fourth step.
Yeah, the fourth step is Iteach clients how to validate a
child's feelings.
I mean, most of us didn't haveparents who did that.
I think they didn't even knowwhat it was and you know.
Therefore, I didn't know whatthat was and I think sometimes
we think we're validating, butwe tend to validate situations
(35:24):
and not someone's feelingssituations and not someone's
feelings.
So I teach them how to validatewhat your child is feeling and
experiencing with the point ofthe concept.
Here is right.
Your kid wants to feel like youunderstand them, right, that
you hear them, that you get whatthey're saying, that you're on
(35:45):
their side, you're on their team, like we said before, like
nothing is wrong with them.
And when you can normalize thebig feelings they're having you
know, in the case of the childwith the ADD, if they're feeling
, you know, angry or overwhelmed, or stressed, when you can
normalize that and they feellike you get it and nothing's
(36:07):
wrong with me they connect toyou, which is what we want, and
it allows their brain and theirbody to settle their emotions.
So step five, which we'regetting to Sandy right, is like
what do you want to dodifferently here?
How do you want?
What might a better choice looklike?
(36:28):
Right, but we have to startwith engaging them in a
conversation and connecting withthem before we leap to trying
to help them change theirbehavior.
And what I noticed with myself,and what's very common, is we
like to just jump to thebehavior and change that.
But with a teenager thatdoesn't work right.
(36:52):
That's when the battles ensue.
So we have to first.
That's what steps one throughfour are doing is like first
trying to engage them in aconversation and connecting with
them so they really feel likeyou understand them and you get
them and they can let thosefeelings go through them and
realize nothing's wrong with mefor feeling overwhelmed, for
(37:13):
feeling pressure, for beingangry in the moment.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:17):
So you said something super interesting that
a lot of times will validatethe situation but we aren't
validating feelings.
Can you give us examples todifferentiate what that sounds
like?
Jeanine Mouchawar (37:28):
Sure, yeah, so let's stick with the you got
a D on the test example where westarted with before.
So when you say, hey, I noticedyou got a D on the test, what
happened?
And let's say they said, well,I was just, I was so busy, I
didn't have any time.
I went from school to soccer tothis, to that, right.
It's like if you take a minuteand you think about it, you're
(37:50):
like, okay, I get that.
I would probably feeloverwhelmed or pressure if I was
in that situation, right.
So a validation, where you'revalidating their feelings, might
sound something like hey, youknow, it makes sense that you'd
feel a lot of pressure oroverwhelmed when your day was
(38:11):
packed and you felt like,because of that, you were just
felt too overwhelmed to eventake the time to study for your
test.
Anybody in your shoes would feelthat that way, right.
Or let let's say, they're, youknow, constantly on an app, on
(38:32):
social media.
They're, you know, followingsomebody and they're really
focused on their appearance,right.
And so when you go to questionabout that, oftentimes you know
you might hear something like Ijust need to be on the app, I
need to know how to do my makeupthat way, you know, leave me
alone.
I got right there.
And so, if you think about it,like what's going on for them?
(38:53):
Like you know, to me it's likethey want to feel like they fit
in right.
They're feeling they don't wantto be embarrassed or humiliated
, that they don't know thelatest trend, and so validating
that would be like, hey, youknow, of course you want to
avoid feeling embarrassed orhumiliated.
If you feel like, if you don'thave this knowledge, that's
(39:16):
what's going to happen.
Anybody in your shoes wouldfeel that way.
So we're not condoning thebehavior, we're not saying like,
oh, no, big deal, you got a Dright, or I don't care that
you're on this social media appall the time, but what we are
doing is just connecting withthem in a way that, like where
(39:39):
they feel, like what they'refeeling you understand and that
there's nothing wrong with themfor feeling that way.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:47):
And can you contrast that with what it would
sound like to just bevalidating the situation?
Jeanine Mouchawar (39:54):
Gosh, validating the situation might
sound something more like hey,you know, it's okay, you got a D
, you know we all strugglesometimes, or something to that
effect, where you the emphasisis on the situation and not how
(40:15):
they feel Does that make sense.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:19):
Yeah, I was just super intrigued by that kind of
juxtaposition there, so I wantedto kind of let our listeners
hear the difference.
Sandy Zamalis (40:32):
Yeah.
So in all of this discussion,there's always going to be a
time where, as a parent, youneed to set a boundary, an
expectation, for you know, arule for your family that you
know in our family we behavethis way.
Can you kind of help me, kindof see how you would help a
parent figure that process out?
Because it's really easy as aparent to react with rules right
(40:55):
, come down with the hammer whenwe've gotten D's, or you're on
your apps too much, or you knowyou were out with friends and
didn't call, or you know alitany of things.
So what's the best way to thenengage with your teen and kind
of instill some healthyboundaries that your teens would
be more inclined to maybebounce up against but not step
(41:20):
over as easily, without thinkingthat through?
Jeanine Mouchawar (41:23):
Yeah, yeah, I love this.
This is a very nuancedconversation, right, it's hard
to just like wrap it up in a bow, but I will share that.
You know, my philosophy is notreal big on punishing or
rewarding, for that matter.
I, you know, I think that thattends to be a way to control our
(41:47):
kids.
That tends to be a way tocontrol our kids, and when we do
offer a reward or a punishment,they it's usually if, if
they're avoiding a punishment orthey want the reward, it's
usually an external motivationand we're missing all of the
goodness of like, the why behindeverything, right, like why is
(42:10):
your behavior a problem?
Not, yeah, I'm going to takethe phone away.
You don't get your phone oryou're grounded, and then
they're just going to dowhatever it takes to get it back
.
So I like to talk about it,like you said, sandy, in terms
of boundaries and for yourlisteners who aren't familiar
with the nuances, you know,boundaries is what you're going
(42:32):
to do in a situation where alimit has been broken.
And so I think, regardingboundaries, a couple of traps I
think happen for parents.
One is, I think happen forparents.
(42:52):
One is we're not clear on whatthe boundary is ourselves, and
so I would just suggest thefirst best place to start is
figuring out what is yourboundary right?
Is it?
The curfew is midnight?
You know what's your boundaryaround tech?
Do they have to leave it in acommon room or whatever it is?
There's no right or wrong here.
It's more you as the parent,identifying what you're
(43:13):
comfortable with or you and yourpartner, and what that boundary
is, and then communicating thatto your child when you do go to
communicate it.
I would fall back onto some ofthe five steps we talked about.
Right, we want to engage themin a conversation about it.
We want to say, hey, this iswhat I'm comfortable with.
(43:35):
What do you think about that?
I'm thinking like you know,midnight seems like a reasonable
curfew.
What do you think?
Or you can even ask them evenbetter what do you think?
Or you can even ask them evenbetter.
You can have in your mind thatmidnight is the curfew that you
want to target right.
And you can say to them hey,you're a junior now.
(43:56):
You're going to parties, you'redriving, you know curfew is one
thing.
What do you think is areasonable curfew?
And sometimes we're lucky andhit the jackpot and what they
offer is exactly what you wantedor, even better, right you had
to say, you know, you didn'thave to say anything and you got
this amazing result right.
(44:17):
And then sometimes, if theycome back with something like
one in the morning, you know, Iwould suggest, well, try to come
up with a compromise, right,where you're giving a little,
they're giving a little andyou're coming up with like a
middle path.
And then I would just add tothat it's really helpful to
teens when you like, cap thatwith a time, almost like a
(44:40):
timestamp, like hey, let's trythis for one week and then let's
regroup and talk about it.
We can reevaluate it and seehow I feel about it, how you
feel about it, you know, and ifwe should move, whatever the
boundary or limit is and I findthat it's you avoid a lot of
(45:01):
confrontation and arguments fromthem when they feel like, okay,
I can deal with this for a week, you know, and you give them a
little hope that maybe there'ssome negotiation room down the
road.
So that's how I would offerthat you approach negotiation it
as a boundary and a limitinstead of a rule, and then just
(45:24):
be willing to be flexible ifwhat they're sharing with you is
reasonable.
You know, like, I had anincident with my child who you
know, came home a half hourafter curfew and, you know, did
not discuss it in the momentbecause I was pissed off.
But once I got calm and I knewthese skills at this point, knew
(45:47):
me, you know I dove intoconversation like, hey, I
noticed you, you know we're latefor curfew.
What happened, hey, from thatplace of calm energy, using
steps one, two and three, andyou know, she ended up sharing.
Well, you know, everybody wasstill at the party and I just
felt embarrassed to like, leavewhen nobody had left yet.
(46:09):
And you know, so I could do myvalidation, right.
Well, it makes sense.
You might feel humiliated ifyou're the first person to leave
, right, you can understand that.
You put yourself in their shoes, right, and then start talking
about.
You know what you'recomfortable with, you know what
are they comfortable with, andmaybe you want to revisit the
(46:30):
boundary, maybe what your teensays is reasonable and you're
willing to revisit it, right.
So it's all about having thesecalm conversations where you're
engaging and you're connectingand you're working together,
where it's you and your teenagainst the problem versus your
(46:51):
teen is the problem.
It's very different, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (46:56):
I love that.
I always say in counseling thatthe person is not the problem,
the problem is the problem.
And so when you can kind ofexternalize that and say, hey,
this is a challenge that we needto work together to solve, as
opposed to you need to be fixedright, it's a very different
mindset.
Jeanine Mouchawar (47:16):
Really it's been so powerful, amy.
Sandy Zamalis (47:20):
Yeah, so you were talking earlier about mantras.
Right to try to get to thatcalm place, and I always had two
mantras that I had when my kidswere teens, and one you
probably heard before I thinkit's an older one, but I have no
idea who said it but it wasthat rules without relationship
lead to rebellion, and Iliterally wrote it on a post-it
note and stuck it on my mirrorand I would look at it while I
(47:41):
brushed my teeth Rules withoutrelationship lead to rebellion.
Rules without relationship leadto rebellion, because I was like
I'm not going to do that, I'mgoing to make sure I'm coming
from that place of connection.
And then the other one that wasjust a visual.
It was like a church sermon onetime and it was talking about
God's love and they passed outthese like chocolate kisses and
(48:02):
people were holding them intheir hand and basically the
theme of the story was that, youknow, the perfect love is love
in an open hand.
So, like I had that visual formyself too, and that's really
what you're describing, it'sthat love in an open hand.
I'm not trying to, you know,hold you so tight that I end up
crushing the thing that I'mtrying to love and protect, but
(48:24):
just that, that open hand.
Jeanine Mouchawar (48:27):
I love that Beautiful.
I'm going to.
I'm going to take that one.
Sandy Zamalis (48:35):
It was a good one .
Those were my two favorite ones.
But yeah, I think, um, yeah,all the stuff you were
describing that you know samepicturinguring, that kind of
thinking, and it really doesmake a difference because you're
building an adult relationshipwith your child, so you don't
want to crush their spirit whenthey're a teen.
You really want to try to getout of that loop, that cycle of
(48:56):
battle, because you want to betheir mom forever, not just.
You know they're ready to getout and, and you know maybe not
come home, right, we want to bethe safe place to come back to.
You want to be the place thatthey can refuel and come back
and fly again.
Jeanine Mouchawar (49:15):
Oh, 100%.
And you know, that's somethingthat I think is can be really
helpful to parents is to keepthat big picture goal in mind
before you start talking to themin any situation.
You know, I mean my big picturegoal is I want to have a great
connection and relationship withmy kids for decades to come,
(49:39):
right, and so, if you know, Iwant them to call me from
college with their fears andtheir worries and their wins and
their excitement, and I wantthem to want me to meet their
future spouse and be agrandparent and be in their
lives.
And so, if you can keep kind ofyour big picture goals in mind,
it helps you communicate from aplace that's, you know, more
(50:02):
calm and maybe get motivated.
You know, these strategies thatwe're talking about they're
doable, but it's not easy, youknow.
But if you can keep that in theforefront of your mind, like
what do I really want here?
You know, I think so many of usfeel like gosh, we put in all
these years when they're younger, and like dedicated our lives
(50:24):
to them and did so much for them, and it's like what the heck if
?
If we can't, then, you know,reap the rewards for years to
come.
We all.
What am I doing here?
So I do think your point likekeeping that big picture goal in
mind of what you want in thelong term can help motivate you
(50:45):
when you're trying strategieslike this, because it's not
always easy.
Dr. Amy Moore (50:52):
So we are running short on time, so we need to
let Sandy read a word from oursponsor when we come back.
I want to wrap up with thefifth step, which you've alluded
to, but I want to just makesure that we've made that clear
and given a clear example, usingthe same story that we've been
building on when we come back.
Sandy Zamalis (51:15):
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Dr. Amy Moore (52:14):
And we are wrapping up our really
interesting conversation withJanine Mouchoir.
And so, Janine, let's talkabout that fifth step in the
process.
Jeanine Mouchawar (52:26):
Great, yeah.
So now that we've engaged themin a calm conversation and we've
created that connection wherethey feel like we're on the same
team and you're on their side,right?
The fifth step is helping andteaching them how to make better
choices.
Right, because, like we talkedabout earlier, they've got this
(52:46):
innate desire to solve their ownchallenges and we want them to
build that muscle, that lifeskill, in the safety of our home
while they're still with us.
And so, you know, that mightsound like just asking a simple
question, like, hey, you know,what might you want to do
differently the next time you'restudying for a test, right?
(53:07):
Or I remember my teenager was anew driver and he got in an
accident, and you know, he camehome and we went to talk about
it and I used the five steps youknow, and after I validated him
, like God, that must have beenreally scary and terrifying for
you, and you know.
(53:28):
Then we I went into the fifthstep of you know what?
What's next Like?
What do you think the nextthing is to do?
Now?
I mean, it was obvious to mewhat to do next.
We know, right, we have manyyears of experience.
But the opportunity here is forhim to start to think about
wait, what do I do next?
(53:48):
And to make some suggestionsand to get him thinking about it
and get him trying to solve itwhile they still are in the
safety of our home.
And that's really the wholemagic of step five our home, and
that's really the whole magicof step five.
And the thing is, when we askthem for their solutions you
(54:09):
know how might they solve forthis or what might you want to
do differently the messagethey're getting is oh hey, you
know, mom thinks I'm capableenough to solve this, right, mom
thinks I'm smart enough, mombelieves in me, mom trusts me or
dad Right.
And so as they start to gothrough the thought process
(54:29):
themselves of how they want tothink about and choose to do
things differently, that's, inessence, what builds confidence
for them.
And that's like the number onething I get from parents.
Like I want my kid to beconfident.
Well, this is a really greatpathway to build that confidence
.
And the cool thing is whathappens that I think people or
(54:52):
at least kind of blew my mindwas as they're offering their
solutions to you and you're like, oh, that could work, let's try
that idea.
All of a sudden you feel morecalm and you feel more confident
that they do know how to solveproblems, they do know how to
make better choices and youstart trusting that they're
(55:14):
going to be okay.
I think this is really powerful.
Dr. Amy Moore (55:20):
So these are critical thinking skills, right,
and sometimes that has to betrained.
If you're not used to usingthis type of approach and you're
used to just telling your teenshere's what I expect, or here's
what you have to do, or here'swhat you need to do, then
they're not used to coming upwith potential solutions for
(55:43):
themselves, right, so theremight be a learning curve here A
hundred percent.
Jeanine Mouchawar (55:50):
I wasn't sure how much time we have, but yes.
So to add on to that, I meanright, you want to look at this
as a teaching moment whereyou're supporting them, maybe
even you're walking side by sidewith them, them maybe even
you're walking side by side withthem, so you know, you can
offer to.
The shift, amy, is that you canoffer to brainstorm with them.
(56:15):
But we want their buy-in, wewant them to say like hey, can
you help me solve this?
Like I'm not sure, can you helpme, mom?
Because when they're asking us,then they're open to hearing
our suggestions, versus when wetell them they're not open to it
.
So, absolutely, this is aprocess, it's a journey and
initially they're going to needmore help and as time goes by,
(56:38):
they'll build those skills andbe able to do it on their own.
It makes me think of I wascoaching a mom the other day and
her daughter is a juniorturning senior in high school.
She wants to take some classesat the community college and yet
she wasn't taking action ormoving towards making that
(56:58):
happen, and the mom uncoveredthat she just, which was like,
overwhelmed.
She didn't know where to start.
Which makes sense, right.
It is overwhelming process, andso you know she basically had
the conversation with her like,look, what do you think you
should do?
Like, what might your firststep be?
Like, what might you say to theadmissions officer when they
(57:21):
pick up the phone?
And then sat with her side byside to give her that confidence
to take the steps and do it.
So you're doing it alongsidethem instead of for them, and
eventually, so they can do itthemselves.
Love it.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:41):
Love it.
Okay, this has been phenomenal.
I wish we could talk foranother hour and so, janine,
tell our listeners where theycan find more information and
resources, how they can workwith you.
Give us that information.
Jeanine Mouchawar (58:00):
Great.
Yeah, you can go to my website,janinemouchoircom, or I'm on
Instagram.
I try every day to be on theregiving some sort of like tip or
advice or you know some sort ofinsight or strategy, either on a
video or in a post, and justknow it's.
(58:25):
Obviously it's hard to give anyin-depth help that way, but
there will be little nuggetsthat you can try right away and
see, like, what sort of resultsyou get.
So I'm on Instagram as JanineMouchoir Coaching Same with
Facebook, if you prefer thatplatform and my website.
Yeah, I work with parentsone-on one for a period of six
(58:46):
months at a time because, as youcan imagine from our
conversation today, it takestime, like you've mentioned, to
learn these skills, to try them,to build them and to have our
teen responding with us.
So I love having a six monthperiod of time where we can
partner together and worktogether so that you can have
(59:07):
the relationship that you wantwith your team.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:10):
And you work with parents all over the country,
over Zoom, all over the world.
You got to love.
Jeanine Mouchawar (59:16):
Zoom, it's Zoom and phone.
So, yeah, I got a client inItaly and one in New York and,
yeah, you got to love the beautyof technology.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:26):
Absolutely All right.
So, listeners, I'm going tospell this for you, but we're
also going to put the links inour show notes.
So Janine's last name isspelled M-O-U-C-H-A-W-A-R, so
her website is JanineMouchoircom.
Facebook, instagram are both atJanine Mouchoir Coaching.
(59:48):
Linkedin is at Janine Mouchoirand, again, I will put those
links in the show notes.
Jeanine Mouchawar (59:56):
One thing I'll add Amy, the five steps
that we talked about today.
I actually offer like a freewebinar on that.
If you want to go to my websiteor Instagram and you want like
more information about what thethree of us talked about today,
that might be helpful for you aswell.
I give a lot of scripts and I'ma little more in depth than
(01:00:18):
even we went.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:19):
So if that's helpful to everybody, absolutely
what a great resource.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:00:23):
Provide that link on your show notes as well,
if you'd like.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:26):
Yeah, absolutely, that would be wonderful.
Thank you, janine.
This has been fantastic.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and sharing your wisdom
and insights and experience andexpertise.
I just know that if you'reparenting teens, or even
preteens, and thinking aboutparenting teens, that you'll
(01:00:47):
have immediate takeaways forsure.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:00:50):
Well, thank you for having me.
It's really been my honor, sothank you Absolutely.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:56):
So, listeners, thanks for being with us today.
If you liked us, follow us onInstagram and Facebook at the
Brainy Moms.
Do it now before you forget.
If you liked our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review.
On Apple Podcasts, you can findSandy on TikTok at
thebraintrainerlady, and ifyou'd rather watch us, you can
(01:01:16):
subscribe to our YouTube channel.
So that's all the smart stuffthat we have for you today.
We hope you feel a littlebrainier than you did an hour
ago.
Join us next time on the BrainyMoms podcast.
Sandy Zamalis (01:01:27):
Have a great week .
Hi, smart moms and dads.
We're so happy you're here withus for another episode of the
Brainy Moms podcast, brought toyou today by LearningRx Brain
Training Centers.
I'm your host, dr Amy Moore,coming to you today from
Colorado Springs, colorado, andI am joined by my co-host, sandy
Zimalis, coming to us fromVirginia, and Sandy and I are
(00:22):
super excited to welcome ourguest today, janine Mouchoir.
Janine is a life coach forparents of teenagers.
She helps make parenting easierby teaching new communication
strategies that reduce conflictand create calm.
Parents learn how to teachtheir teens cooperation,
responsibility and critical lifeskills to empower them for
(00:43):
success.
In the process, they create thepositive, meaningful
relationship they've alwaysimagined.
Janine earned her BA fromStanford University and is a
certified professional lifecoach.
She's married and has threeadult children.
Welcome, janine.
Jeanine Mouchawar (00:59):
Thank you, amy and Sandy, it's great to be
here.
Thanks for having me on.
Yeah, we're excited that you'rewith us.
Sandy Zamalis (01:06):
Janine, we're so glad to talk to you today
because parenting teens isreally a difficult topic in
general, and we're ready to jumpin.
In fact, we started a littlebit, so I want to keep that
continuation of the conversationgoing.
So tell us about yourself soeverybody can join us, about how
you got interested in coachingparents and specifically about
raising teens.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, like you said, I havethree adult children, so I've
been through as I've beenthrough being a parent of the
teenage years.
I'm just to share my experience.
I felt like, as the kids werelittle and growing up, I
parented intuitively and youknow there's lots of resources
(01:49):
out there in addition and sothings went pretty smooth.
And then we got to the teenageyears and I just felt like
conflict and tension and chaosset in.
I felt like I was really facedwith a lot of different
parenting challenges that Iwasn't equipped to handle
(02:12):
effectively.
So, like my daughter was myoldest, you know she was an
overachieving student who lovedto do well and participate in
everything and consequently, itwas challenging to try to help
her navigate the overwhelm, thestress that she put on herself,
(02:33):
the anxiety that would becreated because she was so
focused on doing well on a test.
She also started, you know shewas a middle schooler when
phones first came out and inhigh school as social media apps
started to come out and thatyou know, as many of us know, we
(02:55):
didn't grow up with and wedon't have a lot of tools in our
toolbox or skills on how tonavigate that and help our kids
like feeling good and confidentabout ourselves.
So those were sort of thechallenges I was dealing with
her, my middle one.
He was diagnosed with ADD and alearning disability at a very
(03:19):
young age and I found when wegot to the teenage years his
thinking became more exaggeratedin terms of black and white
thinking, struggling to takeresponsibility, more blaming
others.
There was riskier behaviorgoing on and all those things
(03:48):
were again very challenging toparent and to navigate where I
could keep the calm in the houseand the connection going.
And then my youngest, who's 21now he's actually in Texas, like
yours, sandy, or one of yours,sandy, or one of yours.
He was a very different childas well.
He was very emotionallysensitive, emotionally in touch,
(04:20):
which was super fun to parentthat, but also can be
challenging to help him navigatethose big emotions.
He sort of came up in theramping up of the time of video
games and so I remember lookingat him playing video games all
the time and noticing I washaving thoughts of you're lazy,
do your homework, you know, getoff those games.
All those common parentingthoughts I think that come up
(04:43):
when we see our kids on videogames or apps or their phone all
the time and also he just neverreally found his people in high
school.
So helping him navigate that aswell and also just being the
younger sibling of, you know, abrother who has ADD and the
challenges that come with that,that was hard for him to
(05:05):
navigate as well and hard for meto help and support him.
And so what I was noticing isthat what had been a calm and
peaceful home was now we werebutting heads and there were
battles going on and we werearguing and I just didn't like
how I was showing up.
You know, I found myselftracking them on the phone
(05:25):
because I was scared or worried,because I thought they had lied
and punishing and that felt bad, the whole dynamic that was
going on.
I just felt like there's justgot to be a better way, and so I
ended up going to a parentingprogram that was taught a lot of
dialectical behavioral therapyskills and as I transformed my
(05:50):
way of communicating to my kidswith some of these skills, I
started seeing this amazingchange in our dynamic and we
just the connection came back.
The calm came back.
We were able to talk aboutthese topics that were really
felt so difficult to talk aboutbefore we had.
Like, these tools and strategiesgave us a structure to be able
(06:12):
to have these conversationswhere my kids felt good.
I felt good and you know wewere able to bring some of that
joy back in the house that weused to have.
And so I guess at that point Ijust thought this is crazy.
Every parent should know theseskills.
It's more important thancalculus or geometry, for that
matter and you know this shouldreally be taught to everybody.
(06:36):
And I just thought, you know Iwant to try to get this
information into as many handsof parents as possible, and so I
take my 26 years of parentingexperience, combined with some
of these new strategies Ilearned and coaching techniques
and strategies, and that's kindof how that led me to being a
(06:56):
life coach for parents of teens.
Dr. Amy Moore (06:59):
I love that, and I love that so many parents get
through the teen years andthey're like, hallelujah, we are
done, right, done, and younever want to look back right.
Those were the hardest five,six, seven years of your life so
far.
And so, instead of having thatmentality, you said, oh my gosh,
(07:20):
let's lean in and help otherparents.
And then you have to sit inthat space right Again and again
and again now with more parents, but knowing what you know and
are excited to share it.
I love that.
You said that your coachingprogram was based on DBT and,
(07:40):
like I talk all the time aboutthe importance of that.
You know increasing ourtolerance for stress, and so we
can't do that if we're in Hulkbrain, right.
And so when we're upset and ouramygdala hijacks our prefrontal
cortex and we're in this Hulkbrain, we can't think clearly,
(08:02):
we can't think clearly, we can'tcommunicate clearly, and so we
have to figure out ways to keepourselves in Bruce Banner brain,
help our kids co-regulate andstay in Bruce Banner brain so
that we can all communicateeffectively, right.
When instead, what's reallyhappening out there is
everybody's screaming ateverybody else because it's just
a bunch of hulks running aroundour house, us included.
Jeanine Mouchawar (08:24):
Yeah, totally .
Oh, I love your analogy.
I love the Hulk.
Bruce Banner versus the Hulk.
That one's going to stick withme, amy, I love it.
That's so true though.
Dr. Amy Moore (08:35):
For that.
I learned that in my traumatherapist certification training
, but still it stuck with me too, which is why I continue to
share that.
Jeanine Mouchawar (08:47):
Yeah, and I'm sure that resonates Sorry,
sandy, I just know thatresonates with so much of you,
so many of your audience who areparents of teens, because you
know just that visual of beingthe Hulk and the anger that
comes out and the frustrationright Like.
I think we all feel that quiteoften with our teenagers.
You know they know how to pushour buttons.
Sandy Zamalis (09:09):
Yeah, so can we give our listeners kind of a
generic definition of what DBTis, in case they're hearing us
for the first time?
And Amy, I don't know if youwant to jump in.
Dr. Amy Moore (09:18):
and Janine, can share your side too.
No, Janine, go for it.
This is your hour.
Jeanine Mouchawar (09:22):
Oh gosh, amy, I don't know about that.
My definition of DBT skills isvery layman.
I am not an expert in DBT, soyou feel free to expand on
whatever I say.
My knowledge is basically sortof this.
Well, there's a few things thatgo on.
There's some principles, liketwo things can be true at the
(09:44):
same time.
That is a powerful principle touse when I'm coaching parents,
because we tend to think it's anall or nothing kind of way of
thinking which can really keepus stuck.
There are four pillars.
There's mindfulness, emotionregulation, interpersonal
communication and what's thefourth, walking the middle path?
(10:08):
Is that the fourth one, if youremember?
Or those?
That's how it was taught to meand the program I went through.
But I think the takeaways for mewith the DBT skills a couple of
things.
One, the huge thing, which isalso a piece of cognitive
behavioral therapy, right, isthat our thoughts impact our
(10:31):
feelings and emotions and it'sreally that's what happens
before we take action.
And that concept alone mostpeople aren't familiar with or
even aware of, that, at least Icome in contact with.
And so, talking about thatconcept that your thoughts
create your feelings and thatcreates your actions, and
(10:52):
understanding that one forourselves and two when we look
at our children and think aboutwhat's motivating them to make
certain choices.
If we can back it up andrealize, gosh, let's get to the
root cause of the problem, whichis what are they thinking or
feeling that's causing thataction?
You're, in a way, moreeffective and powerful position
(11:17):
to help them and for yourrelationship.
So again, I know components ofDBT.
Um, please feel, pleaseenlighten everyone more than
that.
Dr. Amy Moore (11:28):
No, absolutely.
And so I think, um, emotionregulation and distress
tolerance are very are are verysimilar, right?
And so we look, becausemindfulness actually, which is
one of the pillars, actuallyhelps us with distress tolerance
.
It actually increases ourcapacity for distress.
(11:48):
But it also helps with emotionregulation too, because those
mindfulness practices that wecan learn and teach as part of a
DBT program actually help breakthat fight, flight or freeze
cycle and kind of reduce theamount of cortisol coursing
through our veins so that we canregulate our emotions.
(12:10):
And that isn't something thatwe can do again if we're in Hulk
brain.
And so DBT sort of builds onthe cognitive behavioral therapy
movement by saying wait aminute, it's not just about
thoughts, feelings and behaviors, it's also about the
interpersonal neurobiologythat's going on in the brain,
(12:33):
and so we have to be able toharness some of that as well.
So I love hearing that acoaching program is adopting
that as well, because it shouldbe.
These should be practices thatare accessible to everyone, not
just available through aclinician's office.
Jeanine Mouchawar (12:55):
I love that.
I love that and, honestly, whenI went through coach
certification, I was just amazedat how much crossover there was
between the things I waslearning to become a coach and
DBT skills.
It was very synergistic and itwas why I think I'm able to
(13:16):
integrate all of that into mypractice today.
I love how there's a lot ofcrossover there.
Dr. Amy Moore (13:23):
Yeah, well, that's fantastic, all right.
I love how there's a lot ofcrossover there.
Yeah, oh, that's fantastic, allright.
So let's talk about just let'sgo to the basics.
Why is it so difficult toparent teens what is happening
that changes on their 13thbirthday, where, all of a sudden
, everything we've been doingfor the last 12 years and three,
(13:44):
four days no longer works?
Jeanine Mouchawar (13:48):
Yeah, right.
How does that happen?
I believe there's a few thingscontributing to that.
I think one is that we all knowour teens are in a massive
transition, right when they hit13,.
Like, we're all aware of that.
We see it in front of our veryeyes.
(14:08):
Where I noticed the gap was,for me and in helping my clients
, is that we don't recognizethat that means we need to
transition as well.
Right, because our teens nowthey need something different
from us than they needed whenthey were little, right?
(14:31):
Sometimes I think about it aslike.
I think about how curious youryounger child was asking you all
these questions, right, wantingto know your thoughts about
things and your advice andrelishing your life lessons as
you taught them about the world.
They were so curious and you gotto provide your wisdom and in
(14:55):
return, we were, in essence,rewarded with smiles and
appreciation and snuggles andlove, and appreciation and
snuggles and love.
And I think the real challengehere is when they become a
teenager is we really need toflip that around, and it's time
for us to get curious aboutwhat's going on from them, and
(15:19):
they want to come up with theirown wisdom, and so the question
is how can we come to them froma place of curiosity and support
them in coming up with theirown solutions to things, because
that's really what they want.
And so the breakdown that Ithink that happens for a lot of
us is that we don't realize thattheir needs, what they need
(15:44):
from us, has transitioned, andso we kind of stay stuck in our
old ways and our old patterns,because that's what felt good,
so it got wired into our nervoussystem right, and so, of course
, we want to keep doing it.
And so when we show up rightexplaining, hey, you should
really do this, or you need todo this, or here's the right way
(16:08):
to do things right, or tryingto fix something that you think
might be broken, when we dothese, we're doing it with such
beautiful intention and alsobecause it always worked in the
past.
But what happens now?
When we do that is right?
The battles ensue, the fighting,the conflict, the butting heads
.
Dr. Amy Moore (16:30):
So then, do we change our values or do we
change our communication style?
How do we need to make?
What adaptations do we have tomake?
Jeanine Mouchawar (16:43):
Yeah, I believe that what we need to do
is change our communicationstyle.
I mean, I think that for mostof us, probably, you know our
values.
Our big picture values aresafety right.
For most of us, again,generalizing trust, honesty,
responsibility, family right,and I'm not sure if those I mean
(17:05):
for me, at least those didn'tchange.
But what needed to change ishow I communicated with my teens
.
Right, it was time tocommunicate in a new way, in a
different way, where they couldactually hear what I was saying
and be receptive to the guidancethat I wanted to give.
Dr. Amy Moore (17:26):
So what does that look like?
Jeanine Mouchawar (17:28):
Yeah, well, that's for.
What I do when I'm working withclients is I start with
teaching a five step process,and the first step is getting
calm ourselves, right.
So we see this behavior that'sreally scary or really worrisome
, or aggravating, ordisappointing, right, maybe
(17:52):
they're disrespectful, or wethink they're lazy because of
their video games, or they'rebeing promiscuous, or drinking,
or smoking or lying I mean nameany of the behaviors that all of
us, as parents of teens, rightLike red flag, red flag.
And so what happens is, when wesee these behaviors and we
(18:15):
start feeling worried and scaredor angry, we just can't resist
the urge to have a conversationwith them.
Right then, right there.
And the thing to be aware of is,like, when we enter a
conversation with those realheated emotions, our teen is
going to feel that energy fromus and it's going to repel them.
(18:40):
It's very uncomfortable for themto feel that, and so that tends
to be right away they eithershut down, you know, they push
you away, they yell go away, getout of my room, other kids
might pay lip service to you,but you know they're not really
listening.
And so the first thing that Iwork on with clients is learning
(19:04):
how, what works for you to calmyour emotions down what are you
thinking that's sparking allthe worry and the fear or the
anger?
And really to take the time sothat you are responding with
intention, calmly, from yourwise mind, instead of like
(19:25):
reacting emotionally.
You know from the hip, andthat's really the first step,
before you know slow things downbecause you want to engage them
in a conversation, and it'simpossible to engage them in a
conversation if they're feelingyour anger, your worry, your
stress, your frustration, ifthey're feeling your anger, your
(19:46):
worry, your stress, yourfrustration.
Dr. Amy Moore (19:47):
There's nothing magical about the type of ways
that you are teaching parents tocalm down right Like any
breathing exercises, groundingexercises, mindfulness is that
what you're referring to?
Jeanine Mouchawar (20:01):
Yeah, I mean, I've got a whole host of you
know options to share withpeople.
You know, just real briefly,with your audience, a real quick
thing you can do is think aboutyour five senses, right?
So touch, what calms you downwith touch, like is does petting
your dog or your cat calm youdown?
Is that soothing?
(20:22):
Right?
What calms you down?
Listening?
Is there certain music, youknow, that feels calming to you?
So you can think about yourfive cents.
If something doesn't come toyour mind right away of how to
calm yourself down, right, youcan think about those five
senses.
You know, when I'm working withclients, you know, sometimes
people will say they want totake a walk outside or go for a
(20:44):
quick run, or even, like on mywindow right now, like, just
look at nature, look at thetrees.
That can be calming.
Obviously, like what you said,breathing exercises can be
calming.
And then, as we work togetherfor a longer period of time, we
go deeper in terms of whatexactly are you thinking that's
causing these feelings to comeup?
(21:05):
And you know, what do you wantto do?
Excuse me, you know, with thosethoughts, you know.
So we'd work on maybe somemantras you can say to yourself,
like a few that I love, arethis is just for today, or this
is just for today, not forever,right?
Or maybe it's something thatsay they are addicted to the.
(21:36):
You think they're addicted toan app?
Right, you can look at this aswell.
It's hard to resist and controlyourself when something's very
compelling, and so this is justa life skill that we need to
learn, and my child hasn'tlearned this skill yet.
So there's a few things we cansay to ourselves as well that
(21:57):
can be calming.
So there's just a few examples,but ultimately, amy, it's
really I like to talk to clientsand ask them like well, what
works for you?
Right?
We're all different, differenthuman beings, and somebody who
meditates might not work forsomebody else who needs to go
take a run.
Sandy Zamalis (22:15):
So it sounds like what you're saying is that you
know, really, at the root, alarge percentage of the time
it's a parent's fear that's, youknow, manifesting, and then
it's being received by the childor the teenager as a lack of
trust.
So you're in this constantstate of you know, especially in
(22:36):
the teenage years, becauseyou've spent, you know, up until
13, your whole your parent lifeprotecting them from all things
and then all of a sudden thatshift has to happen and you know
it's like giving a child who'snever had a driving lesson the
keys to the car right.
You're just letting them go outin the world and make mistakes
and the stakes are so muchhigher if there's any mistakes
(22:58):
along the way.
So I would think helping themidentify, helping a parent
identify that fear and how thatkind of can manifest in you know
, control or anger or otherthings down the road, is just
super beneficial.
At least on that you know, justacknowledging that one little
piece.
What are you afraid of?
Jeanine Mouchawar (23:19):
Yes, yeah, no , that's so true, and I love how
you said when we approach themwith these high emotions, you
know you said that they feellike we don't trust them.
I think that was what you said.
And, yeah, it's like we are.
We're sending a message like wedon't think you're capable,
Right, we don't think you'resmart enough fall into the
(23:41):
pattern of telling them whatthey should do or they need to
do, or trying to fix the problem.
That's the message that they'regetting, that you know you don't
believe in me, you don't trustme, you don't think I'm capable
enough, and so, of course, noneof us want to intentionally send
that message, and so it's justrecognizing that, oh wait, when
(24:03):
I talk to them the way I used to, that's not what they were
taking in, that wasn't themessage they were receiving, but
now that is the message thatthey're receiving.
And so how can I talk to themin a way where they feel
empowered to make their ownchoices and they feel like we
believe in them and we trustthem, that they are capable, and
(24:27):
also, like you were saying withthe driver's example, right,
it's like they're still in thesafety of your home.
It's just your role in terms ofhow much you're involved in
keeping them safe needs toevolve as they're evolving.
Dr. Amy Moore (24:46):
Yeah, all right, so first step get calm ourselves
.
Jeanine Mouchawar (24:59):
All right, step number two yeah, so step
two is based in the DBT skills Ilearned, which is basically
just stating your observation.
Right, so let's say you findout they got a D on the test,
you know.
You say something like, hey, Inoticed you got a D on the test
versus what you know, what areyou doing?
You got a D on the test that'sbecause you were, you know, on
your phone late at night andright, that's how it.
(25:19):
That was old me, that's how Iwould say.
Right, so it's, it's such agreat powerful skill.
That's not easy, but I try tomake these steps simple and
doable, and the and the, thereasoning behind just trying to
state your observation is thatthe idea is to put yourself in a
(25:41):
position that eliminates toneand judgment from your words and
from your voice.
Right, so, for that's hard, sohard so hard.
Dr. Amy Moore (25:53):
Well, so you can't just observation without
paying attention to your tone.
Then right, like you can't go.
So I see you got a D on a testright, which is very different
than so.
I noticed that you got a D onyour test 100%.
Jeanine Mouchawar (26:09):
So it is a combination right.
So I gave you a script that youcan use which is, I noticed,
blank, fill in the blank.
But it also comes with step oneright, which is calming your
(26:30):
own emotions.
So you're not launching into aconversation with making
assumptions, right, about whythey got a D on the test.
That's when we get stuckjudging them and they feel that
judgment from us, right.
So we want to try to reallytone down the tone and the
judgment and what we're saying,because the whole idea here is
we're trying to engage them in aconversation and invite them
(26:51):
into a conversation.
They're not going to want toengage and feel invited if they
think you're judging them.
So you know, I help clientswith scripts and I just love the
phrase starting with I noticed,because it helps keep some of
the tone out and well, maybe notthe tone, but the judgment of
(27:12):
your words.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:13):
So we know, having raised our teenagers that
many times, their response willbe one word, one word, that's
all we get.
So let's say that I approach myteenager in a very calm myself
manner and I say hey, I noticedthat you got a D on your test.
(27:36):
And they go yep, okay, yeah,where's?
Jeanine Mouchawar (27:42):
the rest of the conversation.
Dr. Amy Moore (27:46):
So what do I say next?
Jeanine Mouchawar (27:47):
You just introduced step three, amy.
So step three is to come to theconversation with curiosity,
right?
You want to ask a curiousquestion and that might sound
something.
Again, you want to keep itsimple, super simple, so you
don't start layering in youropinion on the whole thing.
(28:07):
It can be as simple.
As I noticed, you got a D on thetest.
What happened?
Now, sometimes you might get anI don't know shrug, right.
But when you ask a whatquestion?
Really, from truly being curious, like I wonder what happened
(28:30):
they're more apt to be a littlemore forthcoming about what is
going on.
Right?
What's going on inside of themthat they got a D?
I mean, maybe it was becausethey were feeling overwhelmed,
because they had a ton ofdifficult classes and they had
tests that they took, and thenthey went to soccer practice and
then they had to go jump overto the theater and go do their
(28:53):
role in that and communityservice.
I mean, these kids have so muchon their plates that maybe they
got a D on a test because theywere feeling overwhelmed or
feeling pressure, and so we wantto try to get at what's going
on underneath the behaviorthat's concerning us, right?
What's going on in their headand how are they feeling that's
(29:16):
causing the D right?
Or causing them to drink orsmoke or whatever, just be
disrespectful, be mean to theirbrother?
There's something going onunderneath that and that's what
we're trying to get to, and wedo that through coming from a
place of compassion becausewe've quieted our own fears and
(29:38):
worries and a place of curiosity.
So what I will say is you willget trapped if you ask a why
question most likely right.
So we want to steer clear of awhy question, right, why'd you
get a D on the test right?
Those why questions tend to belaced with judgment.
(29:59):
If you think about you know,whatever your kid coming in, why
didn't you make dinner?
Or why didn't you do my laundry, right it tends to come with
judgment and tone, a whyquestion.
So you want to try to stickwith what questions.
Again, we're trying to invitethem into a conversation and
really connect with them andfind out, like what's going on
(30:22):
with you that's causing thisbehavior.
So we're trying to figure outwhy, without asking why.
Sandy Zamalis (30:31):
Do you get to ask how questions?
Jeanine Mouchawar (30:34):
How works too ?
I love that, Sandy.
How are we going?
Sandy Zamalis (30:38):
to remedy this situation.
What's your plan?
Jeanine Mouchawar (30:42):
Yeah, right, okay, so that's step five.
You're jumping ahead.
Oh sorry, right, okay, sothat's step five.
You're jumping ahead.
Oh sorry, that's okay, I loveit.
Yeah, right, and just noticelike we, as parents, we do
always want to judge.
We always tend to jump to howare you going to remedy the
situation?
And just to know, okay, we gotto slow that urge down, right,
(31:03):
because we want to first engagethem and connect with them.
Like, if we don't start thereand really understand what
they're feeling, what the rootcause is of the behavior,
they're not going to be able totell you how they're going to do
something differently.
Sandy Zamalis (31:20):
Right and you want to engage that executive
functioning building for themtoo, because this is now their
problem, and you want to bethere to kind of help guide the
process, but not maybenecessarily, you know, run the
process, help have them thinkthose things through.
Jeanine Mouchawar (31:36):
Exactly that's.
That's what we're going for,right?
So they, like you said, theybuild that executive functioning
, or I call it life skills.
They build those life skills,those problem solving skills.
You know, that's my layman'sterm because I am not a
therapist.
Dr. Amy Moore (31:53):
So what about the child?
What about the teen who runs onhigh emotion all the time and
immediately responds with whyare you yelling at me, right?
Are you yelling at me?
Right?
You're not yelling, but anytype of interrogation, even if
it's just perceived,particularly with you know,
(32:17):
teens with ADHD.
We know that 98% of adolescentswith ADHD have rejection
sensitive dysphoria, right, sothey cannot regulate their
emotions well.
They automatically think thatthey're being judged, rejected
or they've let you down.
So how do you respond and lowerthe temperature on that?
Jeanine Mouchawar (32:40):
Yeah, you just described my relationship
with one of my children, so thatreally hits home with me and
I'll say, out of the gates, it'schallenging, you know, it is
really tough.
But when you can stay calm andreflect back what you're seeing,
which is basically a version ofstep two, you know, in a calm
(33:01):
manner, and say something likeyou know, you seem angry, right,
that's it like you seem angry,right, that's it Like you seem
angry.
What's going on?
Because I have been in yourexact shoes where I was not
yelling, right, and they saystop yelling at me and you're,
you know, a natural reaction asa parent is to say I'm not
yelling at you and all of asudden you're yelling, I'm not
(33:25):
yelling at you, right, we getdefensive because it feels so
unjust, like wait, I wasn'tyelling, I was calm, right.
And so it's just to again take aminute, take a beat, take a
breath, because it doesn't feelgood when somebody accuses you
of yelling and you know you'renot, but just to realize, like
(33:45):
you said, they're experiencingsome emotions that they're
having trouble coping with anddealing with and their coping
mechanism is to throw it back onyou, right, to deflect, and so
to realize okay, wait, reallythe opportunity here is try to
help get at what are theyfeeling and help them feel like,
(34:10):
listen, nothing is wrong withyou for feeling that way, like
it's okay.
I understand, I get it, you knownothing's wrong with you.
So, yeah, we come back kind ofwith that.
Step two of just another way ofyou know I think I said stating
(34:30):
an observation.
This is another form ofobserving where you're just
reflecting back calmly what yousee, so they gives them a beat
to realize oh wait, mom didn'tget pissed off that, I said that
and it allows, like you weresaying, their brain to calm down
so they can use their frontalcortex and access some of what's
(34:51):
going on for them and inside ofthem.
Sandy Zamalis (34:55):
It's beautiful.
So what's the next step afterthe what questions?
So we asked our what questions,yeah.
Jeanine Mouchawar (35:01):
We want to get to that fourth step.
Yeah, the fourth step is Iteach clients how to validate a
child's feelings.
I mean, most of us didn't haveparents who did that.
I think they didn't even knowwhat it was and you know.
Therefore, I didn't know whatthat was and I think sometimes
we think we're validating, butwe tend to validate situations
(35:24):
and not someone's feelingssituations and not someone's
feelings.
So I teach them how to validatewhat your child is feeling and
experiencing with the point ofthe concept.
Here is right.
Your kid wants to feel like youunderstand them, right, that
you hear them, that you get whatthey're saying, that you're on
(35:45):
their side, you're on their team, like we said before, like
nothing is wrong with them.
And when you can normalize thebig feelings they're having you
know, in the case of the childwith the ADD, if they're feeling
, you know, angry or overwhelmed, or stressed, when you can
normalize that and they feellike you get it and nothing's
(36:07):
wrong with me they connect toyou, which is what we want, and
it allows their brain and theirbody to settle their emotions.
So step five, which we'regetting to Sandy right, is like
what do you want to dodifferently here?
How do you want?
What might a better choice looklike?
(36:28):
Right, but we have to startwith engaging them in a
conversation and connecting withthem before we leap to trying
to help them change theirbehavior.
And what I noticed with myself,and what's very common, is we
like to just jump to thebehavior and change that.
But with a teenager thatdoesn't work right.
(36:52):
That's when the battles ensue.
So we have to first.
That's what steps one throughfour are doing is like first
trying to engage them in aconversation and connecting with
them so they really feel likeyou understand them and you get
them and they can let thosefeelings go through them and
realize nothing's wrong with mefor feeling overwhelmed, for
(37:13):
feeling pressure, for beingangry in the moment.
Dr. Amy Moore (37:17):
So you said something super interesting that
a lot of times will validatethe situation but we aren't
validating feelings.
Can you give us examples todifferentiate what that sounds
like?
Jeanine Mouchawar (37:28):
Sure, yeah, so let's stick with the you got
a D on the test example where westarted with before.
So when you say, hey, I noticedyou got a D on the test, what
happened?
And let's say they said, well,I was just, I was so busy, I
didn't have any time.
I went from school to soccer tothis, to that, right.
It's like if you take a minuteand you think about it, you're
(37:50):
like, okay, I get that.
I would probably feeloverwhelmed or pressure if I was
in that situation, right.
So a validation, where you'revalidating their feelings, might
sound something like hey, youknow, it makes sense that you'd
feel a lot of pressure oroverwhelmed when your day was
(38:11):
packed and you felt like,because of that, you were just
felt too overwhelmed to eventake the time to study for your
test.
Anybody in your shoes would feelthat that way, right.
Or let let's say, they're, youknow, constantly on an app, on
(38:32):
social media.
They're, you know, followingsomebody and they're really
focused on their appearance,right.
And so when you go to questionabout that, oftentimes you know
you might hear something like Ijust need to be on the app, I
need to know how to do my makeupthat way, you know, leave me
alone.
I got right there.
And so, if you think about it,like what's going on for them?
(38:53):
Like you know, to me it's likethey want to feel like they fit
in right.
They're feeling they don't wantto be embarrassed or humiliated
, that they don't know thelatest trend, and so validating
that would be like, hey, youknow, of course you want to
avoid feeling embarrassed orhumiliated.
If you feel like, if you don'thave this knowledge, that's
(39:16):
what's going to happen.
Anybody in your shoes wouldfeel that way.
So we're not condoning thebehavior, we're not saying like,
oh, no, big deal, you got a Dright, or I don't care that
you're on this social media appall the time, but what we are
doing is just connecting withthem in a way that, like where
(39:39):
they feel, like what they'refeeling you understand and that
there's nothing wrong with themfor feeling that way.
Dr. Amy Moore (39:47):
And can you contrast that with what it would
sound like to just bevalidating the situation?
Jeanine Mouchawar (39:54):
Gosh, validating the situation might
sound something more like hey,you know, it's okay, you got a D
, you know we all strugglesometimes, or something to that
effect, where you the emphasisis on the situation and not how
(40:15):
they feel Does that make sense.
Dr. Amy Moore (40:19):
Yeah, I was just super intrigued by that kind of
juxtaposition there, so I wantedto kind of let our listeners
hear the difference.
Sandy Zamalis (40:32):
Yeah.
So in all of this discussion,there's always going to be a
time where, as a parent, youneed to set a boundary, an
expectation, for you know, arule for your family that you
know in our family we behavethis way.
Can you kind of help me, kindof see how you would help a
parent figure that process out?
Because it's really easy as aparent to react with rules right
(40:55):
, come down with the hammer whenwe've gotten D's, or you're on
your apps too much, or you knowyou were out with friends and
didn't call, or you know alitany of things.
So what's the best way to thenengage with your teen and kind
of instill some healthyboundaries that your teens would
be more inclined to maybebounce up against but not step
(41:20):
over as easily, without thinkingthat through?
Jeanine Mouchawar (41:23):
Yeah, yeah, I love this.
This is a very nuancedconversation, right, it's hard
to just like wrap it up in a bow, but I will share that.
You know, my philosophy is notreal big on punishing or
rewarding, for that matter.
I, you know, I think that thattends to be a way to control our
(41:47):
kids.
That tends to be a way tocontrol our kids, and when we do
offer a reward or a punishment,they it's usually if, if
they're avoiding a punishment orthey want the reward, it's
usually an external motivationand we're missing all of the
goodness of like, the why behindeverything, right, like why is
(42:10):
your behavior a problem?
Not, yeah, I'm going to takethe phone away.
You don't get your phone oryou're grounded, and then
they're just going to dowhatever it takes to get it back
.
So I like to talk about it,like you said, sandy, in terms
of boundaries and for yourlisteners who aren't familiar
with the nuances, you know,boundaries is what you're going
(42:32):
to do in a situation where alimit has been broken.
And so I think, regardingboundaries, a couple of traps I
think happen for parents.
One is, I think happen forparents.
(42:52):
One is we're not clear on whatthe boundary is ourselves, and
so I would just suggest thefirst best place to start is
figuring out what is yourboundary right?
Is it?
The curfew is midnight?
You know what's your boundaryaround tech?
Do they have to leave it in acommon room or whatever it is?
There's no right or wrong here.
It's more you as the parent,identifying what you're
(43:13):
comfortable with or you and yourpartner, and what that boundary
is, and then communicating thatto your child when you do go to
communicate it.
I would fall back onto some ofthe five steps we talked about.
Right, we want to engage themin a conversation about it.
We want to say, hey, this iswhat I'm comfortable with.
(43:35):
What do you think about that?
I'm thinking like you know,midnight seems like a reasonable
curfew.
What do you think?
Or you can even ask them evenbetter what do you think?
Or you can even ask them evenbetter.
You can have in your mind thatmidnight is the curfew that you
want to target right.
And you can say to them hey,you're a junior now.
(43:56):
You're going to parties, you'redriving, you know curfew is one
thing.
What do you think is areasonable curfew?
And sometimes we're lucky andhit the jackpot and what they
offer is exactly what you wantedor, even better, right you had
to say, you know, you didn'thave to say anything and you got
this amazing result right.
(44:17):
And then sometimes, if theycome back with something like
one in the morning, you know, Iwould suggest, well, try to come
up with a compromise, right,where you're giving a little,
they're giving a little andyou're coming up with like a
middle path.
And then I would just add tothat it's really helpful to
teens when you like, cap thatwith a time, almost like a
(44:40):
timestamp, like hey, let's trythis for one week and then let's
regroup and talk about it.
We can reevaluate it and seehow I feel about it, how you
feel about it, you know, and ifwe should move, whatever the
boundary or limit is and I findthat it's you avoid a lot of
(45:01):
confrontation and arguments fromthem when they feel like, okay,
I can deal with this for a week, you know, and you give them a
little hope that maybe there'ssome negotiation room down the
road.
So that's how I would offerthat you approach negotiation it
as a boundary and a limitinstead of a rule, and then just
(45:24):
be willing to be flexible ifwhat they're sharing with you is
reasonable.
You know, like, I had anincident with my child who you
know, came home a half hourafter curfew and, you know, did
not discuss it in the momentbecause I was pissed off.
But once I got calm and I knewthese skills at this point, knew
(45:47):
me, you know I dove intoconversation like, hey, I
noticed you, you know we're latefor curfew.
What happened, hey, from thatplace of calm energy, using
steps one, two and three, andyou know, she ended up sharing.
Well, you know, everybody wasstill at the party and I just
felt embarrassed to like, leavewhen nobody had left yet.
(46:09):
And you know, so I could do myvalidation, right.
Well, it makes sense.
You might feel humiliated ifyou're the first person to leave
, right, you can understand that.
You put yourself in their shoes, right, and then start talking
about.
You know what you'recomfortable with, you know what
are they comfortable with, andmaybe you want to revisit the
(46:30):
boundary, maybe what your teensays is reasonable and you're
willing to revisit it, right.
So it's all about having thesecalm conversations where you're
engaging and you're connectingand you're working together,
where it's you and your teenagainst the problem versus your
(46:51):
teen is the problem.
It's very different, yeah.
Dr. Amy Moore (46:56):
I love that.
I always say in counseling thatthe person is not the problem,
the problem is the problem.
And so when you can kind ofexternalize that and say, hey,
this is a challenge that we needto work together to solve, as
opposed to you need to be fixedright, it's a very different
mindset.
Jeanine Mouchawar (47:16):
Really it's been so powerful, amy.
Sandy Zamalis (47:20):
Yeah, so you were talking earlier about mantras.
Right to try to get to thatcalm place, and I always had two
mantras that I had when my kidswere teens, and one you
probably heard before I thinkit's an older one, but I have no
idea who said it but it wasthat rules without relationship
lead to rebellion, and Iliterally wrote it on a post-it
note and stuck it on my mirrorand I would look at it while I
(47:41):
brushed my teeth Rules withoutrelationship lead to rebellion.
Rules without relationship leadto rebellion, because I was like
I'm not going to do that, I'mgoing to make sure I'm coming
from that place of connection.
And then the other one that wasjust a visual.
It was like a church sermon onetime and it was talking about
God's love and they passed outthese like chocolate kisses and
(48:02):
people were holding them intheir hand and basically the
theme of the story was that, youknow, the perfect love is love
in an open hand.
So, like I had that visual formyself too, and that's really
what you're describing, it'sthat love in an open hand.
I'm not trying to, you know,hold you so tight that I end up
crushing the thing that I'mtrying to love and protect, but
(48:24):
just that, that open hand.
Jeanine Mouchawar (48:27):
I love that Beautiful.
I'm going to.
I'm going to take that one.
Sandy Zamalis (48:35):
It was a good one .
Those were my two favorite ones.
But yeah, I think, um, yeah,all the stuff you were
describing that you know samepicturinguring, that kind of
thinking, and it really doesmake a difference because you're
building an adult relationshipwith your child, so you don't
want to crush their spirit whenthey're a teen.
You really want to try to getout of that loop, that cycle of
(48:56):
battle, because you want to betheir mom forever, not just.
You know they're ready to getout and, and you know maybe not
come home, right, we want to bethe safe place to come back to.
You want to be the place thatthey can refuel and come back
and fly again.
Jeanine Mouchawar (49:15):
Oh, 100%.
And you know, that's somethingthat I think is can be really
helpful to parents is to keepthat big picture goal in mind
before you start talking to themin any situation.
You know, I mean my big picturegoal is I want to have a great
connection and relationship withmy kids for decades to come,
(49:39):
right, and so, if you know, Iwant them to call me from
college with their fears andtheir worries and their wins and
their excitement, and I wantthem to want me to meet their
future spouse and be agrandparent and be in their
lives.
And so, if you can keep kind ofyour big picture goals in mind,
it helps you communicate from aplace that's, you know, more
(50:02):
calm and maybe get motivated.
You know, these strategies thatwe're talking about they're
doable, but it's not easy, youknow.
But if you can keep that in theforefront of your mind, like
what do I really want here?
You know, I think so many of usfeel like gosh, we put in all
these years when they're younger, and like dedicated our lives
(50:24):
to them and did so much for them, and it's like what the heck if
?
If we can't, then, you know,reap the rewards for years to
come.
We all.
What am I doing here?
So I do think your point likekeeping that big picture goal in
mind of what you want in thelong term can help motivate you
(50:45):
when you're trying strategieslike this, because it's not
always easy.
Dr. Amy Moore (50:52):
So we are running short on time, so we need to
let Sandy read a word from oursponsor when we come back.
I want to wrap up with thefifth step, which you've alluded
to, but I want to just makesure that we've made that clear
and given a clear example, usingthe same story that we've been
building on when we come back.
Sandy Zamalis (51:15):
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Dr. Amy Moore (52:14):
And we are wrapping up our really
interesting conversation withJanine Mouchoir.
And so, Janine, let's talkabout that fifth step in the
process.
Jeanine Mouchawar (52:26):
Great, yeah.
So now that we've engaged themin a calm conversation and we've
created that connection wherethey feel like we're on the same
team and you're on their side,right?
The fifth step is helping andteaching them how to make better
choices.
Right, because, like we talkedabout earlier, they've got this
(52:46):
innate desire to solve their ownchallenges and we want them to
build that muscle, that lifeskill, in the safety of our home
while they're still with us.
And so, you know, that mightsound like just asking a simple
question, like, hey, you know,what might you want to do
differently the next time you'restudying for a test, right?
(53:07):
Or I remember my teenager was anew driver and he got in an
accident, and you know, he camehome and we went to talk about
it and I used the five steps youknow, and after I validated him
, like God, that must have beenreally scary and terrifying for
you, and you know.
(53:28):
Then we I went into the fifthstep of you know what?
What's next Like?
What do you think the nextthing is to do?
Now?
I mean, it was obvious to mewhat to do next.
We know, right, we have manyyears of experience.
But the opportunity here is forhim to start to think about
wait, what do I do next?
(53:48):
And to make some suggestionsand to get him thinking about it
and get him trying to solve itwhile they still are in the
safety of our home.
And that's really the wholemagic of step five our home, and
that's really the whole magicof step five.
And the thing is, when we askthem for their solutions you
(54:09):
know how might they solve forthis or what might you want to
do differently the messagethey're getting is oh hey, you
know, mom thinks I'm capableenough to solve this, right, mom
thinks I'm smart enough, mombelieves in me, mom trusts me or
dad Right.
And so as they start to gothrough the thought process
(54:29):
themselves of how they want tothink about and choose to do
things differently, that's, inessence, what builds confidence
for them.
And that's like the number onething I get from parents.
Like I want my kid to beconfident.
Well, this is a really greatpathway to build that confidence
.
And the cool thing is whathappens that I think people or
(54:52):
at least kind of blew my mindwas as they're offering their
solutions to you and you're like, oh, that could work, let's try
that idea.
All of a sudden you feel morecalm and you feel more confident
that they do know how to solveproblems, they do know how to
make better choices and youstart trusting that they're
(55:14):
going to be okay.
I think this is really powerful.
Dr. Amy Moore (55:20):
So these are critical thinking skills, right,
and sometimes that has to betrained.
If you're not used to usingthis type of approach and you're
used to just telling your teenshere's what I expect, or here's
what you have to do, or here'swhat you need to do, then
they're not used to coming upwith potential solutions for
(55:43):
themselves, right, so theremight be a learning curve here A
hundred percent.
Jeanine Mouchawar (55:50):
I wasn't sure how much time we have, but yes.
So to add on to that, I meanright, you want to look at this
as a teaching moment whereyou're supporting them, maybe
even you're walking side by sidewith them, them maybe even
you're walking side by side withthem, so you know, you can
offer to.
The shift, amy, is that you canoffer to brainstorm with them.
(56:15):
But we want their buy-in, wewant them to say like hey, can
you help me solve this?
Like I'm not sure, can you helpme, mom?
Because when they're asking us,then they're open to hearing
our suggestions, versus when wetell them they're not open to it
.
So, absolutely, this is aprocess, it's a journey and
initially they're going to needmore help and as time goes by,
(56:38):
they'll build those skills andbe able to do it on their own.
It makes me think of I wascoaching a mom the other day and
her daughter is a juniorturning senior in high school.
She wants to take some classesat the community college and yet
she wasn't taking action ormoving towards making that
(56:58):
happen, and the mom uncoveredthat she just, which was like,
overwhelmed.
She didn't know where to start.
Which makes sense, right.
It is overwhelming process, andso you know she basically had
the conversation with her like,look, what do you think you
should do?
Like, what might your firststep be?
Like, what might you say to theadmissions officer when they
(57:21):
pick up the phone?
And then sat with her side byside to give her that confidence
to take the steps and do it.
So you're doing it alongsidethem instead of for them, and
eventually, so they can do itthemselves.
Love it.
Dr. Amy Moore (57:41):
Love it.
Okay, this has been phenomenal.
I wish we could talk foranother hour and so, janine,
tell our listeners where theycan find more information and
resources, how they can workwith you.
Give us that information.
Jeanine Mouchawar (58:00):
Great.
Yeah, you can go to my website,janinemouchoircom, or I'm on
Instagram.
I try every day to be on theregiving some sort of like tip or
advice or you know some sort ofinsight or strategy, either on a
video or in a post, and justknow it's.
(58:25):
Obviously it's hard to give anyin-depth help that way, but
there will be little nuggetsthat you can try right away and
see, like, what sort of resultsyou get.
So I'm on Instagram as JanineMouchoir Coaching Same with
Facebook, if you prefer thatplatform and my website.
Yeah, I work with parentsone-on one for a period of six
(58:46):
months at a time because, as youcan imagine from our
conversation today, it takestime, like you've mentioned, to
learn these skills, to try them,to build them and to have our
teen responding with us.
So I love having a six monthperiod of time where we can
partner together and worktogether so that you can have
(59:07):
the relationship that you wantwith your team.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:10):
And you work with parents all over the country,
over Zoom, all over the world.
You got to love.
Jeanine Mouchawar (59:16):
Zoom, it's Zoom and phone.
So, yeah, I got a client inItaly and one in New York and,
yeah, you got to love the beautyof technology.
Dr. Amy Moore (59:26):
Absolutely All right.
So, listeners, I'm going tospell this for you, but we're
also going to put the links inour show notes.
So Janine's last name isspelled M-O-U-C-H-A-W-A-R, so
her website is JanineMouchoircom.
Facebook, instagram are both atJanine Mouchoir Coaching.
(59:48):
Linkedin is at Janine Mouchoirand, again, I will put those
links in the show notes.
Jeanine Mouchawar (59:56):
One thing I'll add Amy, the five steps
that we talked about today.
I actually offer like a freewebinar on that.
If you want to go to my websiteor Instagram and you want like
more information about what thethree of us talked about today,
that might be helpful for you aswell.
I give a lot of scripts and I'ma little more in depth than
(01:00:18):
even we went.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:19):
So if that's helpful to everybody, absolutely
what a great resource.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:00:23):
Provide that link on your show notes as well,
if you'd like.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:26):
Yeah, absolutely, that would be wonderful.
Thank you, janine.
This has been fantastic.
Thank you so much for joiningus today and sharing your wisdom
and insights and experience andexpertise.
I just know that if you'reparenting teens, or even
preteens, and thinking aboutparenting teens, that you'll
(01:00:47):
have immediate takeaways forsure.
Jeanine Mouchawar (01:00:50):
Well, thank you for having me.
It's really been my honor, sothank you Absolutely.
Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:56):
So, listeners, thanks for being with us today.
If you liked us, follow us onInstagram and Facebook at the
Brainy Moms.
Do it now before you forget.
If you liked our show, we wouldlove it if you would leave us a
five-star rating and review.
On Apple Podcasts, you can findSandy on TikTok at
thebraintrainerlady, and ifyou'd rather watch us, you can
(01:01:16):
subscribe to our YouTube channel.
So that's all the smart stuffthat we have for you today.
We hope you feel a littlebrainier than you did an hour
ago.
Join us next time on the BrainyMoms podcast.
Sandy Zamalis (01:01:27):
Have a great week .
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