Shame-Free Money Management for the Whole Family | Lindsey Konchar - Brainy Moms

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Amy Moore (00:00):
Hi, smart moms and dads.
We're so excited to have youjoin us for another episode of
the Brainy Moms podcast, broughtto you today by LearningRx
Brain Training Centers.
I'm Dr.
Amy Moore and I'm excited totell you about today's episode,
hosted solo by my co-host, SandyZamalis.
Today, Sandy interviewedLindsey Konchar.

(00:21):
Lindsey is your favoritefinancial therapist here to help
you feel excited about money.
And yes, she says that ispossible.
Money isn't just a math problem.
There's always so much more tothe equation, Merging behavioral
therapy and financial education.
Lindsey says she can help youlive your dream life.

(00:41):
So sit back and listen to theconversation between Sandy and
Lindsey on a topic we all needto be a little smarter about,
especially when it comes tohelping our kids with financial
literacy and our teens be alittle smarter about money
themselves.
Here we go Welcome, Thank youso glad you're here.

Lindsey Konchar (01:02):
I am so excited .

Sandy Zamalis (01:04):
Well, we're going to jump right on in, if that's
okay with you.
We don't want to waste anyconversation time.

I love it.

Yes, let's do it.
Let's get started by having youtell our listeners how you got
into the financial space,because you didn't start off
there right.

I did not start off there.
That is correct, yes, there,right, I did not start off there
.
That is correct, yes.
So I have been a licensedtherapist for well, since 2019.
And at that time I was working,you know, in a clinic and it
was great.
And then COVID happened, andyou know all the things, and I
also had a baby during COVID,and so that was my introduction

(01:44):
into motherhood, which I don'trecommend having a baby in a
pandemic, but life is such andat that time I went through it
with becoming a mom.
I was really experiencing a lotof postpartum anxiety and all
sorts of symptoms that came withthat, and I think a lot of it
related to the fact that Ireally did miss my career.

(02:05):
Like, I loved being a socialworker, I loved doing outpatient
therapy, I loved a lot of it,but I also loved being home with
my baby, and so, as with manywomen now, we want it all and I
wanted to figure out how to makethat happen and I started
dabbling in, you know, all sortsof things from working at home

(02:25):
and how I could kind of buildout this laptop, life and
whatnot.
And in 2022, I was actually ata self-development conference, a
professional developmentconference and I had this very
clear moment where I was like Iwant to help people with their
money, but I'm a therapist whois going to listen to me and

(02:48):
fast forward that was in October2022.
And fast forward to April 2023,.
I was listening to an audiobook, totally unrelated to any of
this stuff, and the author saidthe words financial therapist
and I, quite literally, was onmy street, I paused the book, I
parked on my driveway and I camelike flying through the door

(03:10):
and my husband was like what isgoing on?
Are you okay?
And I was like I need to Googlesomething like right now.
And I did.
And it turns out, because I holdmy MSW, that I did qualify for
the certifications of becoming afinancial therapist, and so we
have a 48-hour rule in our houseand I waited the 48 hours, but
we were both like, yeah, thatfeels very aligned and I really

(03:34):
just dove straight in.
I got certified by the end ofMay and I haven't looked back,
and so a big part of our storyas well is on the you know, the
personal side of things.
My husband and I had been onour own self-care journey
already for years, and so itjust you know, when they say
that, like you look back and allthe dots start to connect.

(03:54):
That was kind of the moment forus and, like I said, I've been
doing that now for almost comingup on two years and it's been
awesome.

I love those kind of serendipitous encounters,
right when you're, just likethat's it.
That's the thing.
That's how I got involved in.
I'm a cognitive therapist, sothat's how I got involved in
cognitive training.
I was on a teacher track andfound this and was like, nope, I
need to divert.
And it's hard to divert, butwhen you do it feels so good.

(04:25):
Yeah Well, we're so glad you'rehere to talk about money,
because I don't know why itisn't more of a money.
I think does involve therapy,because I love your premise that
there's so much emotion tied tomoney and we all have different
I would say money personalities.
We've all grown up differentlywith money, so let's start there

(04:48):
.
How do you start to understandyour own personal relationship
with money?

Such a good question.
What I think I wish so manypeople understood that is really
not talked about is your money.
Habits are actually establishedby the time you are 10 years
old.
There's research out of theUniversity of Michigan about
this and so when you start tounderstand that piece like that
is very young.

(05:15):
So so much of your upbringingactually has to do with how you
are presenting with money nowand the relationship that you
have with it.
Now, the beautiful thing aboutthis and the work that I do is
there is so much hope in itbecause habits can, of course,
be changed.
So if somebody heard that andwas like I'm messed up for life,
you know like that is not thecase.
We can change habits, which isso amazing.

(05:37):
But when you think about that,you start leaning into like,
what did I learn about moneywhen I was growing up?
What did I not learn, and alsowhat was explicit and what was
implicit.
Right, we call this a moneystory and for me, my parents
fought about money all the time,like anytime money was being
talked about, it was beingfought about, and so I

(05:59):
internalized that for a verylong time is like money is bad.
Money creates these terrible,scary conversations and
arguments and then fast forwardto when I was 16, I actually
moved into a friend's house.
Mom thought I was living atdad's, dad thought I was living
at mom's.
I was at my friend's house andher parents were still happily

(06:20):
together.
At this point my parents hadalready been divorced, money
being the cause of their divorce.
And having that differentviewpoint, having that different
lens into like wait, they doopenly talk about money in front
of us, like it wasn't not likeextensively, but it was just

(06:41):
like, oh wait, there's anotherway.
And it felt different, like Iknew if I spilled my juice it
wasn't going to be like WorldWar III, it was.
It was just like oh wait,there's another way.
And it felt different.
I knew if I spilled my juice itwasn't going to be like World
War III, it was going to be likewe'll get the carpet clean or
we'll get a new rug or whatever.
And I just realized like wow,there is a different way.
And I was really lucky to havethat experience early on.
I always say it's like my ownversion of Rich Dad, poor Dad,

(07:03):
which is kind of a controversialbook.
So that's not what I, that'snot what I recommend people
start with reading.
But the premise is there, rightOf like.
I really did have these twoviewpoints into like what it
could do for you, and so thatwas really a big part.
So when I met my now husband, Iwas 24 and I was like, look,
buddy, we got to talk aboutmoney in this relationship

(07:23):
because right and so, and so westarted doing that work and I
had habits that I needed tochange, and that's true for
anybody, and also, you know,same with my husband, like he
saw one thing I is reallyimportant to take stock of where
did you come from?

(07:45):
What have you learned and wasthat helpful or not?

That was really smart, because I think money is
like one of the top five reasonsthat marriages don't make it,
so catching that on the frontend was just amazingly wise of
you.
Let's talk about from thatperspective.
What do you think some of theemotional barriers that people,

(08:13):
what are some of those emotionalbarriers that people bring to
the table?

Undoubtedly with women specifically, I would
say it's avoidance.
I see that all the time andavoidance can look a couple
different ways.
Hands raised, you're like helpme, help me.
And that avoidance can comefrom a couple different things.
Right Is one.
It's going back to those moneyscripts that you might hold deep
down and that could be like ifyou heard the message money

(08:38):
doesn't grow on trees, or wecan't afford this, or money is
the root of all evil, like thatsends these messages to our
brains that, like now, you mightbe actually like pushing money
away because it might signify toyou, if you have too much money
and you're getting too rich,maybe you're now a greedy person
and greedy people are badpeople, right.

(08:58):
So there's this like definitepattern that we can kind of
follow.
For me, I often heard you knowwe can't afford that, and it
would be like a $10 toy that Iwas asking for and yet my
parents would come home with,like I don't know, a $300 grill
the next day and I'd be like,wait a second, you can afford
that, but we can't.
Like the mixed messages arereal right, and so I think

(09:20):
examining that a little bit canbe helpful.
Now, I'm not a inner child deepworking therapist.
I'm a solutions-focused brieftherapist, so I think it's
important to examine it, butthat I'm very quickly like, okay
, and let's change it.

But I do think it can be like figured out by
patterns that you're currentlyin so it's not like it takes a
deep dive.

No, totally You're absolutely right, you're
absolutely right.
And so just you know, beingable to kind of extract some of
that of like oh, that couldexplain why I'm doing this
avoidance stuff, why I'm notopening the emails that say you
know, bill, or why my mail isjust piled up in the corner and
not looking at that or you knowdoing the thing.

(10:02):
I quite literally had a clientthat was like I would check my
bank accounts.
She would cover her eyes withtheir hands and just kind of
peek out her fingers.
She literally was that avertedfrom looking at her stuff.
So I think that's a reallyreally common one that I, like I
said, primarily with women, butsometimes men as well, and on
the flip side, with men, theyare really pushed into that

(10:24):
quote unquote provider role andnot all of them want to identify
with that role and this is ahuge generalization.
But I do see this often,especially, like I said, in my
couple's work, that they feelthis pressure, this obligation
to be the one doing the finances, to be the one looking at all
the numbers, and some of themare like this is my worst

(10:45):
nightmare, like this is myhusband's worst nightmare, right
, Like he's, like I do not wantto look at the numbers and
that's okay, but we have toreally examine, like, where is
that coming from?
Is that like a bigger macrolevel?
Is that self-induced?
Probably a little bit of both,and so, yeah, we can kind of
look at each and everyone isunique in this, but those are
definitely some through linesthat I see in the work that I do

(11:06):
.

Yeah, what do you think are some of the biggest
miscommunications that coupleshave about money that maybe our
listeners could really use intheir day to day?

in their day-to-day.
I often see that one partner isan avoider and the other
partner is maybe what I wouldcall like an optimizer, right,
and then they marry each other,and it's always like that.
And so the optimizer is the onewho's like I'm in the
spreadsheet, I like love thisstuff, like why can't you just
come over here and look at thespreadsheet and understand what
I'm talking about, right?
And the avoider is like warningsigns all over.
This is scary.
You know like they're likeplease don't talk to me about it
.
And that one who might be likethe optimizer, let's say, is

(11:53):
feeling like they're reallycarrying the team of the
partnership and they don'treally necessarily want to be
the one that's like doing all ofit.
Or maybe the permission grantor, like the avoider, is the one
coming to can we afford this?
And then the other person hasto give permission and like who
wants that with their partner?
You know, like I don't.
I certainly don't want to go tomy partner and say like hi, can
I afford my massage?

(12:14):
Like I want to have like anequitable conversation about it.
That's like hey, does this feelright for us?
Or whatever that looks like.
And so it is really interestingtalking with couples.
I love the couples work that Ido because of the dynamics and
who's played what role, becauseguaranteed that optimizer
oftentimes doesn't feel likethey are really contributing to

(12:37):
that.
They're like I'm just begging,you know, my partner to come on
board with me and I'm like well,how are you approaching that
conversation?
Are you understanding why theavoider is feeling the avoidance
that they are?
And we break down some of thatbecause what's happening is that
optimizer is like this is myway.
This is the right way, and thetruth is, the avoider is

(12:58):
probably not receiving that verywell because their brain is not
understanding it the way tooptimize.
So we need to find commonground, and so that is a really
common scenario that I see.

I have a friend who she always categorizes it as
pessimistic and she would sayher husband's a flyer I guess
that's like a term that's outthere, meaning he doesn't really
think.
I don't know that avoiding isreally the issue, it's just
doesn't really think about it,like it doesn't worry about it,
doesn't stress about it, it justkind of flies and goes where.

(13:34):
She's very security driven.
So, like for her it's reallyimportant to know those numbers
and to spell it all out.
And I need to share one of yourposts with her because it
cracks me up.
But you had a post that saidyou know how do you blow $10,000
a year and it was like $26 aday or something like that, and
she would love that.
Like it's that kind of nitten,gritty kind of detail stuff that

(13:58):
just blows your mind when youlike do the math it truly is.

Yeah, oh my gosh, that real.
It has like 14 million views onit, like that's crazy man is
about it and so many of thecommenters were like, wow, I
really didn't want that math tobe real.
But it's real.

Yeah, it's not, it doesn't take that much well,
you think about it like that'syour lunch anymore, like if you
go out to eat for lunch at work.
That's 10 grand a year.
That's crazy to think about itthat way.
Yeah, definitely mind blowing.
It's not a fun math.

Well, here's the deal On the other side of it
.
Here's what I will say about.
It is I am not the person everto be like.
You should not be going out tolunch every day because it's
$10,000.
My angle is like if that'smoving the needle for you, do it
.
If you are like driven byconvenience I have two toddlers
I am like give me all theconvenience in the world, I will

(14:55):
accept it open, you know, openhandedly, I don't know.
But there are phases of lifewhere we're like okay, but what
else could that money be doingfor you?
Right.
And so sometimes you truly arelike no, the $27 is so worth it
for lunch today.
And other times you're likeactually I have this bigger goal
to do something with my familyor with my friends or whatever

(15:18):
that is.
And you're like actually, Iwould rather put that money
towards savings, I would ratherdo something different with that
.
And that's okay, right.
But it really comes down to andthis is true for individuals and
it is true for couples justknowing what your priorities are
, not what social media istelling you.
Your priority should be notwhat your parents have ingrained
deeply in you, that yourpriority should be not what your

(15:39):
parents have you know,ingrained deeply in you, that
your priorities should benothing like that, like we need
to really take time to turninward and say like, no, this is
what I'm prioritizing and thisis how it's going to be
reflected in my spending, so inmy bank statements and in my
calendar.
Right, your time is importantand I want to see this stuff in
your calendar.

I love that you put it that way, because it's
not, it's just an awareness,like, just be aware that that's
what's happening, right.
And if you've got like a bigspend or something comes up and
you're thinking, gosh, how am Igoing to afford that?
Like, if you think I cannot eatlunch every, you know I cannot
eat lunch out, I could savemoney in that regard and I maybe

(16:22):
could save the money I need todo that thing that I don't think
that I can afford in thismoment.
It's all those little things.
It's a death by a thousand cuts, right.

Truly it really is, and because it's so easy
nowadays to spend money I meanliterally two clicks with a
thumb and you have a package atyour door in two days like it
truly is almost like magic andit's designed that way.
So actually it takes morebrainpower to not to click your
way into financial disparity.

(16:55):
So I think it's reallyimportant to put intentionality
back into our finances and againmaking those very intentional,
very mindful decisions of likeit is okay, I love spending
money, I have no problemspending money, but it's because
it's on the things that dobring up that baseline level of
happiness versus something likeI just don't want to get off the

(17:17):
couch.
I'm going to door dashsomething to my door and pay $12
in a convenience fee and blah,blah, blah.
Right, like I.
That's not like to me.
That doesn't actually.
I know I said I love convenience, and I do in many ways, but
that's not the convenience thatI want to spend my money on,
right, right.
And so again, some like I'm notshaming anybody who wants to
door dash, but is that reallyaligned with your priorities

(17:39):
right now?
And if the answer is yes, byall means.
If the answer is no, then don'tdo it, you know.

Yeah, so how do you start that conversation with
your spouse?
How?

do you get on the same page?
Great, great, great question.
Uh, so many couples have neverhad just like a positive,
healthy interaction around moneyBecause, as I said, one person
is usually feeling anxious,there's a lot of defensiveness
that's coming up or it's done inlike you spent how much on the
credit card this month, and sowhat I ended up doing one day

(18:14):
with this.
This is what we did in ourhouse.
We had a really, and we hadalready done a lot of this work,
but I think it's a really goodstarting place for couples.
We had a really and we hadalready done a lot of this work,
but I think it's a really goodstarting place for couples.
Is we had a really numbersheavy money date.
It was in November, a couple ofyears back, and my husband was
just like, oh my God, like youknow, like he was just kind of
dragging and I was like I know,but this is a really important

(18:36):
thing.
We got through it, it was great.
And then the ice.
But I said the next money datewe have we're not going to get
into the spreadsheet or not atall.
And we didn't.
What I did instead Now, this isnot for every couple, but I,
but I, but I think it'simportant to hear that instead,
I told him I'm going to go tothe gas station, I'm going to

(18:57):
get like $30 worth of scratchoffs and I want you to start
thinking about what would you doif we win $10,000?
, what would you do if we win$100,000?
And what would you do if we wona million dollars?
And we did that and we had areally lovely date.
He poured me my wine, I pouredhim his bourbon, the kids were

(19:17):
in bed and we just dreamttogether, and I think couples
forget that that's.
And it sparked a really funconversation between us.
Now, do you need to actuallygamble to do this activity?
No, so a lot of people are likewait, she's a financial
therapist telling me to gamble.
Ok, red flag.
But what I will say is like itdid it, it created like this

(19:38):
really fun.
And my husband is like a bighunter, like burly guy, and he
was like I would vacation inGreece if we could go anywhere,
and I my jaw was on the floorlike even after being together
for 10 years, I was like whatyou know?
So it just it was fun.
And then we did our littlescratch off thing.
We won zero dollars but I'mlike 30 bucks for a date night

(19:59):
and we had super goodconversation and it was all
money driven, like it truly was.
And so I think if you can justreally purposefully make a
conversation around money thatisn't strewn with negativity,
see where your priorities are,like what you know, if you won
$10,000, maybe your spouse waslike I would pay off all of our
debt and maybe you're like Iwould take a vacation and you

(20:19):
guys can talk about like whatyou know, if you won $10,000,
maybe your spouse was like Iwould pay off all of our debt
and maybe you're like I wouldtake a vacation and you guys can
talk about like well, whatshould we actually do?
It just creates like a nice, anice entry into that, into that
conversation.

How do you navigate financial power
dynamics that might come intoplay?

That one can be tricky.
It depends on the person'spersonality.
I have had a couple couples whoyou know if and this is in a
heterosexual relationshiptypically that I see this
dynamic that if the male isproviding more financially, that

(21:05):
if the male is providing morefinancially, sometimes I see
that there is a power strugglethere where he almost feels
entitled to like it's his moneyand we kind of have to do a hard
reset because in that specificdynamic I will, you know, kind
of deconstruct some of thatthinking of like yeah, when you
were single 10 years ago, 20years ago, whatever it is, you
would have done thingsdifferently with your money and

(21:26):
also you wouldn't have had thisbeautiful partner who's been
able to provide other things foryou in your life, like support
and love and encouragement andmaybe household duties and
familial like right, like so inlike the traditional way.
But it's a lot of re-educating,deconstructing some of those
really deep-seated beliefs, andit is a tricky one because they

(21:49):
are very, very deep in there.
So it's peeling back a lot oflayers, but I'm happy to report
that that it's.
It is very doable and it's justkind of working through some of
like what is each partner ableto bring to the table.
And really, how are we talkingto each other about some of that
stuff, right?

Yeah, when you work with families, are you
working to help them get out ofdebt, kind of hit some of those
big hurdles that are keepingthem from having peace and
safety in the home in terms of,like, financial safety?

Totally.
Yeah, I kind of run the wholegamut on what I do.
Some of it is simply justaround education, where people
are like I have money and I justdon't even know what to do with
it and I'm like, well, let'smake a plan.
Other people are like I havedebt, or I've been in cycles of
debt right where they're able tokind of claw themselves out,
but then they're right back init and they're like what am I

(22:45):
doing wrong?
And so just recalibrating someof that stuff.
Certainly we make what's calleda good planner so get out of
debt planner.
And actually I have an entireintentional spending planner
that is available on Etsy.
It's the same one I use in myhousehold and with all my
clients and it's really justabout how are we organizing our
money?

(23:05):
How is it flowing through ourhousehold?
What systems do we need to havein place?
How can we have money datesthat are really productive and
efficient and fun, and lookingat all of those things together.
And then we do talk about wealthmanagement stuff where I'm just
educating on like what are theoptions?
I'm certainly not an accountmanager, I'm not holding any of

(23:28):
that stuff, but that's you know.
It's important to know who's onyour financial team and what
you are paying them and we don'tthat's kind of into the weeds.
And what you are paying themand we don't that's kind of into
the weeds.
But financial advisors aretypically taking a bigger
percentage than what peoplemight not know.
And so we look at some of thattogether and say, like, is that

(23:48):
where your financial prioritiesare aligned?
Do you want to be paying afinancial advisor this much, or
do we want to maybe reevaluateand do something a little
differently?
And so we're just talking aboutall of that kind of stuff.

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brain training exercises you cantry at home.
So I love how you kind of termit financial self-care, just
really thinking about it asself-care.
So let's start there.
Where do you begin to reallykind of understand financial
self-care?

Well, it's just , it's a really a mindset shift
that we're making, right,because so many people self-care
has become a bit of a buzzwordlately and truly big
conglomerates have really takena hold of that and been like
self-care, you need this,self-care, you need that.
And it's just like been brandedinto this whole idea of like
you need all these things tocare for yourself.
And the truth is, all of thosethings are fine and dandy, like

(25:23):
I said earlier, like I lovegetting massages and I like
knowing how I'm paying for thatmassage, because if I'm in that
massage having tension reliefsand all that stuff, and then I
come home and 20 minutes laterI'm financially stressed because
I don't know what's happeningwith my money, well, it didn't
really do a whole lot, right?
And so I like to think of it aslike taking care of yourself by

(25:46):
taking care of your money,knowing how you're paying for
this stuff, having a clear plan,having clear priorities and
then using your moneyaccordingly to really live a
fulfilled life for today andsaving for tomorrow.
And so, yes, of course, thereare multitude of things we can
do, and financial self-care is abig broad thing, because there

(26:07):
are little things like I callthem micro barriers that we can
do to kind of put in place andget a jumpstart.
But then there's, like thatdeeper stuff that we're getting
into about.
Like, I work with a lot of womenwho have a lot of self-worth
you know concerns, and sothey're really buying stuff to
try to increase theirself-esteem, to increase that

(26:29):
self-worth.
And we deconstruct some of thatLike why are you feeling this
way?
Why is you know?
Why are you getting your hairdone and your nails done and
Botox and all this stuff?
Because you're not feeling goodenough in your own skin?
Let's talk about a little bitof that.
And what do we really want toput our money to?
And some of it's, again,totally fine if you have the

(26:49):
finances to afford that, but ifyou're putting yourself in debt
to do that, then we need to lookat how to reconstruct some of
that.
So there's a whole mess ofthings that go into financial
self-care, but it really boilsdown to living that fulfilled
life, having that intentionalityin your money, so you are truly
taking care of yourself.

Your recent podcast episode about the
Enneagram and money styles Ireally enjoyed because I'm a
nine okay yeah, and I was likeyou'd write it.
I had, of course I had to waitbecause nine is at the end of
the podcast.
You went through the whole listbut um, I, uh, it's like in our

(27:32):
family, for example, I'mdefinitely I wouldn't say again,
I'm the avoider probably.
I kind of identify more withthat flyer personality.
I just don't stress about it.
I'm happy to follow someoneelse's rules about it.
It doesn't cause me stressunless I'm in charge, like if
I'm in charge and I have tofigure that stuff out,
definitely.

(27:52):
But my husband loves that stuff.
He's like you, he just eatsthat stuff up.
So I let him kind of run theshow and he's definitely an

(28:23):
envelope thinker, like our wholemarriage.
That was kind of like his wayof saying okay, yes, you can do,
you know whatever you need todo, but it has to come out of
this envelope.
You can't touch this envelope,the envelopes.
You can't trade in theenvelopes, you can't steal from
this envelope to offset anotherenvelope, and we do that all
digitally.
But it's just really funny tome because I feel like one of
the biggest hurdles, looking at,for example, my kids, it's just
that lack of savings that a lotof our you know a lot of
families have, a lot of ouryoung people have.
Life today is just reallyexpensive.

(28:49):
So having that envelope I meanthat's, my kids grew up with
envelopes.

I'd like to know what trauma we've given
them.
Oh my gosh, I don't think so atall.
Look, here's the thing.
I'm like, as long as you arehaving solid conversations with
your kids about money at all,they're already light years
ahead, right, whether or notyou're doing it the right way or
the wrong.
Like, you know your kids andyou know the style that's worked
for you and your husband, andyou're over there being a nine,

(29:12):
you're like I'm just happy tokeep the peace, like I'm good,
right and so.
But no, I think, even havingthat introduction into and same
with, like the language thingthat I was talking about right
is I'm never, ever going to tellmy kids that we can't afford
something, because the truth iswe could afford it, right?
I know that it's about whetheror not we want to pay for the

(29:35):
thing.
Are we prioritizing the thing?
So if we're at the store and mydaughter's like mommy, I want
this Barbie dress thing, I'mlike honey, we're not
prioritizing that right nowbecause and I'll explain to her
right now, we've decided as afamily we want to go down to
Texas and visit our in-laws.
So that's what we'reprioritizing right now.
And then there's other timesthat we go to the store and they

(29:56):
ask for something, and I'm like, yeah, let's prioritize that
today.
And so understanding that thepower actually comes back to
them.
It's not in anybody else'shands, the money doesn't have
power over us.
We actually get to decide whereour dollars are going to be
spent.
And to your point about thesaving stuff that is, it does
get really tricky.

(30:16):
And so for me, with my kids,tricky.
And so for me, with my kids,I'm like I would rather them
make $50 mistakes now in theiryouth than I would make that.
You know, I don't want them tomake $50,000 mistakes later on.
And so money mistakes are goingto happen.
That is okay.
They're going to choose tospend a little bit more than
save right now because it's moreinstantly gratifying, you know,

(30:38):
and and some of that is justthe the conversations that we're
willing to have with whetherit's more instantly gratifying,
you know, and some of that isjust the conversations that
we're willing to have with,whether it's with ourselves, our
partners, our kids it's allreally important to make sure
that we're talking about it in ahealthy way.

So just having those conversations really is
the place to start with our kids.
We've got to have those moneyconversations.

Yeah, yeah.
And you know what, if you arelistening to this and you're
like, wow, I do not feelconfident enough to talk to my
kids about money, be transparentwith kids.
Kids love vulnerability and, ofcourse, there's a line that we
don't need to cross, you don'tneed to say, well, I'm an
$80,000 worth of debt, whatever.
That is Right, but saying likeyou know, I never understood

(31:18):
finances.
It was just never somethingthat was taught to me in school.
My parents didn't really talkto me about it and we're not
blaming anybody while we'retelling them this, but we're
just being open and we're sayinglike but now I really want to
learn about it.
Do you want to come along andlike, learn some of this stuff
with me?
And they're going to be likeyes, immediately.
Yes, like they, they're curious, they love it.

(31:40):
Yes, immediately.
Yes, they're curious, they loveit, and kids know.
Kids know that money makes theworld go round more so, maybe
even than adults really realize,and they are genuinely curious,
and so, if you can have some ofthose conversations, some
things are going to change.
When we retired my husband outof corporate America in
September and we had a familymeeting about it my kids again

(32:04):
are really young, but we wantthem to know that their voice is
heard and important.
And we just said, look, if daddyleaves his job, that means
we're going to pull back ongoing to restaurants, we're not
going to be doing as many familyoutings, stuff like that, but
it also means that daddy's goingto be home a lot more with you
and you'll actually get to seeyour daddy, which for a long

(32:24):
time wasn't the case, you know.
And my daughter was like, yay,daddy, like she was so excited.
But we wanted to hear how theyfelt about the decision and make
them, you know, involved inthat.
And they were totally fine tonot go to restaurants as
frequently Like it, just youknow, involved in that.
And they were totally fine tonot go to restaurants as
frequently Like it, just youknow.
But I think again, even if youare not somebody who's able to

(32:47):
save in a 529 plan for your kids, that's okay.
The bigger thing to do iseducate your kids around what
money can do for them and helpthem along that journey, and
they will still like be againlight years ahead.

Yeah, so let's talk about allowances.
What are your feedback or tipsfor parents about allowances?
What should they consider?

I love allowances, big advocate of them
, and here's why, again, it justgets the conversation going.
What I will say is, if you aregoing to commit to doing
allowance with your kids, committo it right.
Have it be a consistent thingthat you're really good about,
you know doing easily.

(33:32):
So for us, we were initiallygoing to wait until my daughter
was five, but she was justreally interested in it she's
really responsible and we werelike you know, you're ready.
And I talked to her beforehandand I asked her said do you want
to start learning about moneyand about money and some of the
things mommy does for my job andwhatever?
And she's like, yeah, I wantmoney.
I was like, okay, great.
And so we got her a littlecontainer with four little

(33:53):
buckets in it and we labeledthem together invest, save, give
and spend.
And because she's four yearsold, she gets $4 a week.
So ahead of time I went to thebank.
I got $200 worth of ones,because she's also at the stage
where you know ones are way moreimportant, like four ones are
way, or five ones are way betterthan a $5 bill.

(34:15):
And then we got a money box offof Facebook marketplace.
It was like two bucks and wedid it all together where I was
like, okay, this is the money,this is where it's going to come
from, and so we had it allsituated to make it really easy
to be consistent doing this.
And every Wednesday we justhave it stack that kind of into
our morning routine and weattach it to chores.

(34:38):
You can, you cannot, it reallydoes not matter.
There's really strong opinionsabout that.
Honestly, I'm like, do yourthing.
You know your kids.
If it feels good for you, do it.
If it doesn't feel good for you, don't.
Who cares?
That's not the point.
The point is to talk aboutmoney and how we're allocating
it and prioritizing some ofthose things.
So for us, we gave her $4 billsand the expectation is that $1

(35:00):
goes in each bucket.
When she turns five, she'll getan extra dollar and she gets to
decide where that dollar goes.
And she does have a 529 planand she's investing in that and
anytime she puts money in thebank, mommy matches her 100% and
so if she wants to put moremoney in investments, she gets
more money in investments,because I'm matching it right.

(35:23):
And then savings we've talkedabout what savings might and you
can lean in and play on whatyour kids are super into.
Right now my daughter isobsessed with Paris.
So we're like, yeah, girl,we're saving for Paris, let's go
see the Eiffel Tower, and thatI'm sure will change.
But right now it's like fun tohave that conversation.
And then I really encourage herto spend.
And when we go and we spendthat money, it's not like a hey,

(35:46):
let's go to the store, mommyhas to grab a couple of things.
You can buy something whilewe're there.
It's a we're going to go to thestore and this is for Kinsley,
like I am not there getting myown stuff.
It's like an event for her totake time and look at the toys
and decide what she wants, andthen you know, come home and
then I can go back and do mygrocery shopping later.
But that's, it's reallyintentional time for her to

(36:07):
learn and ask questions andwhatnot.

Oh, I love that.
I love that idea of making itall about the experience of
going shopping.
Yeah, getting the thing thatyou think in your mind that
that's what you're going topurchase, and then having to go
through that process and you'renot rushed because you're trying
to get through your list aswell, that's really really smart
.

Yeah.

I love that.
What about?
Let's talk about teens?
What about credit cards forteens?
What's your stance?

So one of like a hack that a lot of people
don't really know is if you areusing credit cards I hate to use
the word responsibly because itfeels icky to be like well,
some people are not responsible.
But if you are using creditcards I hate to use the word
responsibly because it feelsicky to be like well, some
people are not responsible.
But if you are paying yourcredit cards off in full and on
time every single month and youhave really good credit, if you
add your teenager as anauthorized user on that card,

(37:01):
you're actually helping thembuild credit earlier on, which
is really nice.
So then there's a whole rabbithole.
We can get down with creditscores that we won't.
But the nice thing about creditscores is, obviously, if you
are looking to take out a loanwhether that's a mortgage,
student loans, whatever if youhave a high credit score, the

(37:22):
interest rate is actually betterfor you, and so if you can help
them by building that creditscore up and getting their
credit higher earlier on, thenby all means do it Now.
I've heard of all sorts ofdifferent ways people like to do
this, whether they get theirteen a credit card and they're
like this is your limit.
This is your responsibility.

(37:44):
And, of course, there are theteens that are a little.
You know.
They have a spending, I don'tknow explosion, and they really
go at it and the parents arereally good about them saying
like, okay, you've now lost theresponsibility to that card and
in fact, you owe us withinterest on that money and

(38:06):
setting up a payment plan withtheir kid.
And again, like, is that fun todo?
No, Is it a fantastic learninglesson early on?
Yes, and so I think there'ssome of that.
But if, like, your teen has ajob, ooh, I love it.
Like, open up that custodialRoth IRA with them.
Talk about investing with themthat custodial Roth IRA with

(38:29):
them.
Talk about investing with them.
Talk about what it means to be,what they might be saving for
in a high-yield savings account.
There's so much to get intowith teens I love.

oh my gosh, what a fun age, yes, but you want to
give them opportunities to workwith money within your guidance
and your sphere.
I know, growing up I didn'treally understand credit cards
until I was well into my 20s andthey were throwing credit card
applications at us at college.

(38:55):
I don't know, we'd go to thebookstore and free money and I
knew it wasn't free money but Ihad friends that didn't and got
into trouble and they had tofind out the hard way later.
But having that opportunity todo that at home and to give some
guidance and to help them thinkahead, especially in those

(39:15):
early ages where theirprefrontal cortexes need a
little extra support, A littleextra support.
Yes, totally.
They got to be able to thinkthat through.

Uh-huh, yes, yes.
And what I think is reallyinteresting is I don't know if
this was true for you, butcertainly for me I heard the
message like don't go intocredit card debt.
Like only spend what you have.
But that is where the messagestopped.
There was never an explanationfurther Like this is why this is
what interest means.

(39:45):
This is what it does.
This is how it works.
There was not that extra addedlayer of like why it was just
like a don't do this thing.
So for parents out there ofteens, I would say that is one
thing that can be, even again,super beneficial for them to
like explain what the thing is,but then explain why the thing

(40:07):
exists and why we're actuallytelling them about this in a way
that they'll understand, andthere's some really good
resources out there now forteens.
But, again, like they reallytruly want to learn about this
stuff.
There's like such this myththat people are like even if I
had personal finance in highschool, you know I wouldn't have
done anything with it, Iwouldn't have cared, and I'm
like what a load of crap wewould have learned, we would

(40:31):
have loved it.
It's fine.

I don't really ever remember like how to do the
checkbook.
That's all I really everlearned in school.

Truly, yes, they never taught us anything.

And I'm like, come on, I think in eighth grade
, we had a lesson where we hadto, like furnish a home or
something, and they gave us fakemoney and then we had to, like
you know, try to figure out howmuch things cost.
And then I remember thatexperience talking about, you
know, those childhoodexperiences.
Now I was older, obviously, butI remember that vividly because
my mom was like, well, youcan't, you'd never be able to

(41:06):
live on this much money.
And so in my head I was like,wow, you need a lot of money to
survive.
And so there was a little bitof stress, I think, associated
with it, because, you know,mattresses are expensive.
I was blown away by the cost ofa mattress.
So that was a really goodopportunity, though that's fun,

(41:29):
yeah, and you know what.

A lot of times I'll tell parents too.
If you are taking familyvacations, whether that's
annually or whatever, like Iencourage you, first of all, you
need to know your numbers first, right?
So if we what is that?
Like practice oxygen mask?
You know finance, where it'slike you need to take care of
yourself first and then helpyour kids.
So you need to understand yournumbers.

(41:52):
But if you're going on a familyvacation and you're like, yeah,
we have $5,000 that we'replanning on spending, talk to
your include them Like as youngas eight years old, you can be
like we're going to go to theseare like three places that we're
considering.
Let's build this out a littlebit.
What are the flights to getthere, what is the hotel looking

(42:13):
like, what are the excursionsthat we want to take the food
right and plan it out with them?
So, a little bit, and I think,giving that some of that
autonomy to say like, what doesthis look like?
What are the scenarios?
Like that's super fun.
And then they also have a stakein it where they're going to
enjoy that vacation so much morebecause they helped plan it.
Like the fun part aboutvacations is it's like a triple

(42:35):
fold excitement, right when youget to like plan the thing which
is super exciting and fun.
You get to go on the thingwhich is super exciting and fun,
and then you get to come homeand have memories about the
thing that was super excitingand fun, so super exciting and
fun.
And then you get to come homeand have memories about the
thing that was super excitingand fun, so like it's so fun.
So like let your kids be a partof all three stages of that.

And you know if you're planning through it, then
there's no remorse, right?
There's no buyer's remorse atthe end, Right, you can just
enjoy.
You can just enjoy.
What's your advice for 529plans, college savings plans?
You've kind of talked aboutthem a little bit.
Let's dig into that a littlebit.

I love a 529 plan, particularly because of
the new law that was passed inearly 2024.
That now says if you fund thatand you have $35,000 in that
account and you don't use it foreducational expenses, now you
are actually able to roll thatmoney into a Roth IRA, which is

(43:31):
a really great post-taxinvestment account.
And so a lot of people I knowwere worried like what if my kid
doesn't go to college?
And now they have to take thepenalty and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
That really has mitigated someof that and so it becomes a
really, really great account tohelp your kids financially for a
very long time.
So that's number one.

(43:53):
And also, even if you end uphaving to pay the 10% penalty or
whatever, so much of that is inthe compounding interest and at
least you're doing somethingfor your kids.
I just think it's so great.
So I love a 529 personally, Iactually just put out an episode
on my own podcast on financialself-care about this

(44:13):
specifically.
So if people want to learn, it'scalled Building Generational
Wealth and I talked to a womanspecifically about all the
different.
There's like four differentinvestment accounts that you can
consider for kids.
Both of us were, you know.
We agreed that the 529 is ourfavorite.
There is also a custodial RothIRA, which I mentioned a little
bit about.
If you have teenagers andthey're working at W-2.

(44:35):
You can also hire your kids inyour business.
That gets a little convoluted,but it's possible which is a
really beautiful account againto set them up for later and
then you could just have abrokerage account in your own
name if you're not sotrustworthy of what your kid is
going to do at 18 years old.
But that's a really great wayto maybe help them out with a

(44:56):
down payment or a wedding or Idon't know.
Yay, you got an amazing job,let's go take a vacation and
celebrate.
I don't know whatever it is foryou, but that one's under your
control.
So if that feels a little bitbetter, that's great.
But it's just a regular taxablebrokerage account.
So there's a lot of really goodinvesting options for kids, and
kids got time and we love timewhen we're talking about

(45:18):
investing, so that is huge.

I love.
In one of your posts you talkedabout how you had closed your
kids' savings and checkingaccounts, because your kids are
young, they're little and justare focusing on that 529 as the
option, which I thought wassuper smart, because your point
in your post was that you knowit's not, it's not working for
them, meaning the money's notactually doing work for them

(45:43):
sitting in that checking andsavings account.

Yeah, and we, as I said in that post too, we
are very privileged that we havefamily members who live all
around the country, and so mykids will get 20 bucks for
Valentine's Day and 50 bucks forChristmas or whatever.
And so we started.
Really, I mean, by the time mydaughter was quite young, she
had like $500 sitting in thatsavings account that, to your
point, was not working for her.
Like there was, it was like0.01% savings yield or something

(46:14):
, which is just really pathetic.
And so, and I really thoughtagain, I want my kids to be
involved in so much of this,like why would I?
Which?
I did this, but I went to thebank, I opened the accounts all
for them and I'm like, well,doing things for my kids is
really not teaching themanything, so I'm going to close
these all out, put that money inan account like a 529 that is

(46:36):
working way harder for her, andthen, when, at an appropriate
age where she can actually, youknow, both of them can
understand this is a bank, thisis how we do some of this, and
that you can open your ownaccount when she's you know,
again, eight, nine, ten,whatever.
It's just going to help herstart understanding this more
rather than me doing it for her.
She's really doing it and I'mthere as her support person.

Do you, do you work with your family?
Like I want you know we talkedabout you know money, kind of
being that traumatic thing thatwe've learned early on in that
relationship, and as someone whoreally loves to talk about
financial awareness and helpother families, how has that
gone in your own family dynamicin terms of like your mom and

(47:23):
dad, or brothers and sisters?

I am an open door when it comes to it and I
am never going to pressure anyof them to like you know, this
is the thing you should do.
But it was very sweet.
The other day my brother calledand was like he's you know,
getting a new job or whatever,or no, it was a benefits thing,
that it was benefits renewal.
And he was like so I'mwondering about you know this,

(47:47):
and should I do that?
Because this, like best keptsecret is the HSA.
If you have access to an HSAwhich only about 10% of
Americans do but if you do havethat high deductible plan, you
can actually fund that, investthose funds and then turn in all
your receipts when you're 60years old and get reimbursed for
everything.

(48:07):
And so if you can pay for stuffout of pocket and be investing
in that HSA, it is a tripletax-advantaged account, so it's
not tax going in, it growstax-free and you take it out
tax-free so long as it's usedfor those medical expenses.
So it's like a really niceaccount and so it was very sweet
.
My brother called and asked meabout some of that and to
educate him a little bit abouthow it works and the systems

(48:30):
that we have in place in ourfamily, but it's certainly not
something I'm ever going to callhim up and be like hey, do you
know about an HSA?
But yeah, no, they consume mycontent, they listen to my
podcast, and so if they havequestions I'm certainly happy to
answer.
But yeah, I'm not going to belike, oh, this is what you need
to know here.
So, yeah, that's kind of how itworks for us.

I only ask.
I know in my family we justnever talked about money, so I
don't think that we still westill don't talk about money.

Not happening.
Yeah, it's definitely openedsome doors, I would say, and and
really good conversation of youknow lots of things Like I.
You know we have a reallystrict rule and just my husband
and I that like we are nevergoing to borrow a family member
or a friend money.
We just simply won't it just itcreates too many conflicts and

(49:23):
this weird power dynamic thatwe're not interested in.
So if at any point, a familymember or friend comes to us and
says like look, I'm reallystruggling, I need some money,
we would be open to theconversation, we would look at
our financial picture and see ifthere's anything to give and we
would consider giving money tosomebody.
But that is truly, it is a gift.
It is not like okay, but you'regoing to pay us back and with

(49:47):
interest and whatever, and sothat's been kind of an
interesting concept and thingsthat I think some people, you
know, haven't really thought of.
So just having some of thosemoney, rules and your
partnership and even amongfamily, like I'm very I mean my
whole content and everything isabout all this stuff.
So I guess if my family doesn'twant to come to me directly,

(50:08):
they can get the informationthrough some of my emails or my
podcast or the social mediastuff.
But no, yeah, it's been areally good way to kind of spark
some of that.

What are some resources that you recommend for
women, men, couples, to helpthem really kind of make that
mindset shift about theirfinances?

Yeah, my very favorite.
I mean, again, I have all somany resources.
So please, if this stuffresonates with you, please come
follow along.
I welcome it.
But the number one book that Ireally, really love to recommend
to anybody in my I even had myhusband listen to it because I
was like it is, it's reallypowerful is called your Money or

(50:52):
your Life, and it's by VickiRobin and Joe Dominguez and it
is really a good conversation oflike what are you putting your
life's energy towards and how isyour money kind of funding some
of that life's energy towardsand how is your money kind of
funding some of that.
And I really just like thatframework of how they're, how
they talk about money and howthey reframe some of these

(51:13):
things that are like like, forexample, one of the things they
talk about in there is is yourjob so stressful that you're
coming home and you're having,you know you're cracking a beer
and you're planning vacationsbecause you need to escape your
life or whatever?
And like, how much of yourmoney is really going to like
coping with the stress of yourlife really, and is there a way

(51:38):
to like change that and be moremindful around some of those
things, and when I had myhusband listen to that, that was
really one of the conversationsthat was really healthy.
Had my husband listen to that,that was really one of the
conversations that was reallyhealthy between us, between,
like, hey, you are in corporateAmerica, you are gone for 10 to
12 hours a day at your job and,yeah, you're providing for our
family, which is huge, and alsoa lot of your life's energy is

(52:03):
getting sucked into somethingthat's not even yours, you know,
like so so we really startedshaping our lives a little bit
differently and thinking aboutmoney a little bit differently,
and so that would be like topresource.
I listened to it on Audible andI just loved it.

So when can our listeners find you?
What resources do you haveavailable for them?

Yeah, so I am financial therapist Lindsey on
Instagram.
That is the only social mediathat I really am active on, so
come on over there and find me.
My, my podcast is financialself-care with financial
therapist Lindsey, and so youcan listen to all sorts of
episodes over there.
The Enneagram one has been likereally taking off.

(52:45):
People are liking that one alot, so I start there.
The Enneagram one has been likereally taking off.
People are liking that one alot, so I start there.
It's super fun.
And then my blog isfinancialselfcareblogcom, and
that's where I have an entirefinancial therapy page.
So if you're interested inlearning more about like the
one-to-one services that I offer, by all means come there.
But I'm a solopreneur.
It's me always answering you,so if you email me, it's me

(53:08):
responding.
If you DM me on Instagram, it'sme responding, and I just I
love to talk about this stuff.
So if you have questions orcomments or you listen to this
episode, you just want to tellme about it, please do.
I love it, um, and that's whereyou can find me.

I love your uh content because you're just so
down to earth.
There's nothing that would makesomeone feel like they're in a
space where you know they wouldfeel intimidated to talk about
finances.
I love how authentic you areonline, so thank you for sharing
all of your content.
Yeah, it's been wonderful.
I had fun doing my research totalk to you today.
All of your content.

Yeah, it's been wonderful.
I had fun doing my research.
To talk to you today, oh good,oh, that makes me feel so good.
Like, isn't this a weird spacethat we're in where I'm like I'm
creating this content?
I don't know, is it hitting?
Do people like it?
The podcast especially?
You're like I don't know, I'mjust gonna put it out there and
hope so.
Like, if somebody comes in it'slike oh, I really liked this.
I'm like, oh, yay, oh, I'm notjust talking to the abyss.

Amazing.
I know, I know, I totally getthat.
Thank you so much, Lindsey, forjoining us.
We want to be mindful of yourtime, so we are running out of
time in our conversation and weneed to wrap up, but this has
been a fantastic conversation.
We want to thank our guesttoday, Lindsey Konchar, for
sharing her knowledge andexperience with our listeners.

(54:27):
Lindsey, thank you so much.
Is there anything you want toleave our listeners with today
that maybe we didn't get to hit?

You know, the only thing that I would say is,
if you, no matter where you areon your financial journey and
you see kind of a bigger thingfor you, whether that's getting
out of debt or investing alittle bit more aggressively or
anything in between, take 2025and make this year just like a
little harder for you, 5% harder, 10% harder and be more

(54:57):
intentional with your money.
And I'm talking about the, youknow, avoiding the one click to
buy option on a certain platform, that just Jeff Bezos
click-to-buy option on a certainplatform that just Jeff Bezos,
you know, owns Whatever it lookslike for you, but do the thing
that's going to make it just alittle harder to make the next
20, 30, 40 years of your lifethat much better and richer.

(55:18):
And I really think there's somuch power in that and, just
again, there's so much hope inthis.
So that's what I'll say.

That's it.
That's a great tip.
That's a great tip to end on.
Okay, moms, thank you so muchfor listening today.
If you like us, please followus on Instagram and Facebook at
the Brainy Moms.
Do it now, before you forget Ifyou liked our show.
We would love it if you wouldleave us a five-star rating
review on Apple Podcasts so thatwe can reach more parents like
you.
If you would rather watch us,you can subscribe to our YouTube

(55:48):
channel at the Brainy Moms, andif you want to learn more about
our sponsor, learningrx andCognitive Training, you can find
me on TikTok atTheBrainTrainerLady.
That's all the smart stuff wehave for you today.
We hope you feel a littlesmarter.
So see you next time on theBrainy Moms podcast.

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Shame-Free Money Management for the Whole Family | Lindsey Konchar

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Shame-Free Money Management for the Whole Family | Lindsey Konchar