Dave... What's my car worth? (David Neyens, Motorcopia.com)

In this episode of Break/Fix podcast, we explore the captivating world of collector cars and automotive journalism with special guest David Neyens. Known for his expertise in classic and exotic automobiles, David shares his journey from a career in financial services to becoming a trusted voice in auction catalogs. He introduces Motorcopia, a unique platform offering data-driven insights into the global collector car market, assisting enthusiasts, collectors, and investors in making informed decisions. The discussion delves into how Motorcopia's detailed reports and data analyses help users determine whether to buy, sell, or hold specific car models. David emphasizes the importance of balancing passion with practicality and the role of elements such as preservation class and restoration in determining a car's value. Additionally, the episode features returning co-hosts Don Weberg and William Ross, who contribute their expertise and insights into the intricacies of the automotive world.

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00:00 Meet David Neyens 01:37 David's Journey into Automotive Journalism 03:15 The Birth of Motorcopia.com 04:20 Understanding Motorcopia's Unique Platform 06:41 Deep Dive into Car Valuation Methods & Challenges in Car Valuation 18:01 Worth vs. Value in Car Appraisals 24:08 Expanding Motorcopia's Scope 28:41 Understanding Car Modifications 29:04 Emotional Value vs Market Value 33:28 Weekly Market Forecasts 40:06 Preservation vs Restoration Debate 42:50 Documenting Car History 46:31 Motorcopia's Business Model 50:47 Final Thoughts and Promotions

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The Motoring Podcast Network : Years of racing, wrenching and Motorsports experience brings together a top notch collection of knowledge, stories and information. #everyonehasastory #gtmbreakfix - motoringpodcast.net

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This episode was sponsored by Garage Style Magazine, The Ferrari Marketplace (a division of Exotic Car Marketplace & GarageSixty5) and provided by CAR PR USA.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Break Fix podcast is all about capturingthe living history of people from all
over the autos sphere, from wrench,turners, and racers to artists, authors,
designers, and everything in between.
Our goal is to inspire a newgeneration of Petrolhead that wonder.
How did they get that jobor become that person?
The road to success is paved by allof us because everyone has a story.

(00:27):
Tonight we are joined by a familiarname in the world of collector
cars and automotive journalism.
David Nyan known for his deepexpertise in classic and exotic
automobiles, has long been a trustedvoice in auction catalogs and in the
pages of enthusiast publications.
Now he's bringing that wealth ofknowledge with motor copia.com, a unique
platform dedicated to the intelligenceand insights of the global collector

(00:51):
car market from auction analysis andpricing trends to the fascinating
stories behind the cars themselves.
Motor Copia is redefining howenthusiast, collectors and investors
understand the marketplace.
In this episode, we'll dive into David'sjourney, the vision behind Motor Copia,
and how data and passion are mergingto shape the future of the car world.

(01:14):
That's right, and joining ustonight are returning co-hosts Don
Weiberg from Garage Style Magazine.
And William Ross from the FerrariMarketplace, not just personalities on
the Motoring Podcast network, but ourcar auction subject matter experts.
So welcome back Don and William.
Thank you.
This is gonna be fun.
And with that, let'swelcome David to break fix.

(01:35):
Hello David.
Hello everybody.
Nice to meet you.
Like all good break, fix stories.
Everyone has a superhero origin.
Let's talk about your long historyin the collector car world.
And what inspired you to launchmotor copia.com and how does that
build on all your past experiences?
Ever since I was just a littleguy, I was always just obsessed

(01:56):
with automobiles in general.
After a about 10 year stint in financialservices and banking was able to get
into riding for a nearby collector car,auction house, and writing their catalogs.
After a few visits, one of thetour guides, uh, mentioned he
thought that I should give catalogwriting a try, and that there
might be, uh, an opportunity there.
So I purchased prior auction catalogsand just went over them just like I

(02:19):
would a magazine or a book just kind ofmodeled their format and their style.
Back in 2007, uh, unboxing day, I had theopportunity, I saw an ad actually where
they were looking for catalog writers.
The deal was you submit a testpiece, pick a car of your choosing
and give it a try, and if they.
Liked it.
Then there was the possibility of aninterview and a job working in the

(02:39):
writing cataloging department there.
As it happened very quickly, I wastold they liked what I submitted.
They were super busy with privatecollection sales and scheduled auctions.
Asked if I'd be willing to interview,and they brought me on board pretty fast.
So that's how I got my firstfew years in the business.
After that went on my own in 2012 and, uh,with some help from a very good friend,
uh, in the PR industry in in California,Cindy Mele, she helped me to launch my

(03:04):
next phase as a, as a freelance catalogwriter and just became extremely busy.
It's been really rewarding.
I've met a lot of great people,uh, made a lot of great contacts
with people and just continuethat journey right to the present.
And as far as motor copiagoes, uh, as a new venture.
That started back in May and June.
I finished a major project for a customer,submitted my invoice and I'd been feeling

(03:27):
a little bit tired, and then realizedby then that I'd caught a terrible cold
that put me on my back for about a month.
During that time, I thought,well, what can I do in addition to
writing catalogs on my own where Ican continue in the car field and,
uh, try to do something different?
And so the idea formotor Copia came about.
A lot of content creators do a betterjob of putting out great photography,

(03:48):
great videos, online content.
That's their space.
With me being so deep in the marketfor so long, I decided to take data
associated with collector car sales,process it, and turn it into something
that's actionable for collectorsand high net worth investors.
People in, uh, their professionaladvisors as well, where I can give a buy
seller a hold signal and also drill itdown to specific models of cars, even.

(04:13):
Again, it was just simply becauseI was trying to find something
different, something a new nichethat no one else is really pursuing.
Can you tell us exactlywhat is Motor Copia?
I was kind of inspired by, uh,there's a fellow in, in the States.
You're all in the states.
I'm in Canada.
He, he writes, um, a newsletterthat's all about farming and
agricultural commodities, investmentstrategies for farmers so that they

(04:36):
can hedge their bets or get theircrops to market at the right time.
Or maybe they hold onto them in afacility and they then sell them when
the conditions are more favorable.
That's his business.
He, and it's just a no bones about it.
He was a Chicago Board of Exchangetrader at one time and just loved it.
And he came from a farmand that's what he did.
So for me, it's being ableto take my love of cars.

(04:58):
Well, I love them all, but you know,there's some that are more electrifying
than others or that are in moredemand than others, and they actually
apply a bit of a financial methodto helping people to make decisions.
But is it an auction platform?
Form what?
What are we looking at here?
What it is, it's an information platform.
Think of it as kinda like a Bloombergterminal setup for investors in the
collector car market, or people thathave high end collections and they

(05:21):
want to know whether they need tobuy, sell, or hold certain cars.
Also, there's the Motor Copia newsletterthat works right from the website and
with that I send out like a financialnewsletter, but it's geared completely to
the collector car market and there's a lotof crossover with the financial markets.
It's a real hardcorenuts and bolts analysis.
If you're looking for good content andgreat pictures and stuff like that.

(05:42):
I try to deliver that.
The emphasis is on helping peopleto buy, sell, or hold and make
those decisions with clarity.
My opinion, you don't need to worryabout the pictures and that stuff
because what you provide to someone is.
Basically the data and analyticsdown to specific models, which is
fantastic for someone that's a verynumbers driven Oh, oh, right on.
For those who have not gone on thewebsite, you need to go on there.

(06:05):
And what's great about it too, it'snot like it's crazy where it's like,
you know, you get some of these datadriven sites, you get all this data
so that you really, it's kind of hardto make all It is so nice and concise.
It's very straightforward and you canunderstand exactly what you need to find.
To your point, buy, sell, hold.
Just history of car, especiallyif maybe it's just your car
you've had for a long time.
Hey, where's my car sitting at inthe market right now and what's

(06:26):
it been doing the past five years?
If you haven't been on site,you guys gotta go on the site
'cause it is really, really cool.
Thank you.
If I'm understanding correctly, ifyou go on the site, do you go back
five years and show what those carshave been doing on the market, going
up, going down, doing whatever?
Is that what we're kind of getting at?
Yeah, I've done two reports, reallydeep dives into the four GT Heritage

(06:46):
Edition, the oh six four GT version.
Where that sits in that relationship,is it if it's a buy, sell or a hold,
the report breaks it down into immediatethe next 30 days, one month to three
months for short term, three monthsto 12 months for a medium term, and
then beyond that for a longer termview, sometimes a vehicle can be.
An immediate term hold, but giveit a year and it's a buy depending

(07:09):
on our forecasting, so we can drillright down and make forecasts.
And then I try to back test as wellafter certain auctions take place.
Like at Monterey, I believe there arefive or six of that four GT Heritage
Edition that were offered and or sold.
So I could look back and see, okay,was reserve too high on this offering?
Was it priced right?
What did they solve for and what doesthat mean for the future for those cars?

(07:33):
Because they were heading on a trajectoryfor a million plus dollars and really
the sweet spot's somewhere around700, 750 right now for those cars.
That's borne out by auctionexperience and sales experience,
online auctions, and also if there'sany private sale data that's known.
You picked on specificallythe GT heritage.
Why that car?

(07:54):
How do you choose the carsthat are on the system?
How many cars are on the systemRight now, I'm doing it more on a
demand basis, and I'm also pickingand choosing bellwether type cars.
That would be like ablue chip in the market.
Something that's got a certainamount of confirmed sales.
It's got some interesting dynamics inthe market as far as pricing, and this
one was heading higher and now withthe airs come back out, it's still

(08:18):
in high demand, rare limited edition.
That's how I picked that.
It's a bellwether.
I've got another analysis, twodifferent methods on the, uh, first
generation of the Ferrari tester.
84, 85 to 91.
The same idea.
It's a solid hold right now, butthere's upside potential still.
The tester had almost 7,200 built.
71, 77 I think was the bill number.

(08:40):
At least what's accepted.
The idea is, okay, there's enough ofthem built where there probably are
enough sales and enough attemptedsales that I could find lots of records
for the past five years online that.
Would help me to build that modelas to why it's a hold right now and
it, it's approaching a buy actually,and I believe one of my reports was
calling for a median of about $160,000for a number two example, which is an

(09:05):
excellent car, but not a Concord queen.
Not a driver.
So that's sort of the standard baselineI go by is an excellent conditioned
car, unless the customer tells mewhat the condition of the car is.
So I'm using haggerty's oneto four scale for condition.
So that's kind of one of the criteria.
I'm using.
Two things I do.
One's called the buy, sell, hold index,and that one's a weighted average system.

(09:26):
I get a score out of 10, I'mlooking at 16 data points.
One would be recent sales trends.
The other one is, uh, market liquidity.
How frequently is this year, make, modelor type of car appearing on, on auctions
and auction websites and live and online.
I'm also looking at how thesecars are selling at auction.
Do is what's the sellthrough rate for them?
Community, sentiment and buzz.

(09:47):
So I'm also looking at what'sgoing on online and in print.
How often are these carsdiscussed or talked about?
Is there a lot of nostalgic tailwinds tothem to spur them on a little bit more?
Was there TV use, likesay Magnum, pi, Ferrari?
You know, that sort of burned into mymemory bank and probably judging from
the four of us, that might be somethingthat we identified with as young folks.

(10:08):
Ownership costs and how complex theyare to service, how costly they are to
service, or how cheap they are to service.
I like the test.
I gave it a three out of 10 forownership costs and maintenance costs.
But you know, you could take an 84,85 to 93, uh, Fox Body Mustang five
liter, and you'd probably be lookingat eight or nine for a score because
their parts are available readilyand they're relatively inexpensive.

(10:31):
The other thing is, again, culturaland historical significance.
Was there a competition historyor like, say a copo Camaro
from 69 ruled the drag strips.
They were, uh, burnedin everybody's memory.
Banks.
That's, you know, anybody upto around Gen X and millennial.
That gives a good tailwind as well.
Is there export and import demand?
Are there a. Cars crossing theborder, say from Canada to the US

(10:53):
or Europe to the us I'm also lookingat regulatory and legal pressures
depending on what the jurisdiction is.
So, as you know, in England it'sultra low emission zones and
uh, you can't park anywhere.
Whereas here in Canada, it's uh,electric vehicles are getting pushed
like crazy here and we're beingsort of coerced into that space.
Despite my opinions about that,how rare or how common are

(11:14):
the cars, things like that.
So again, there's 16 data pointsthat I'm going over with that.
But you want somethingthat's got some action.
So these are just sort of test caseswhere I'm publishing them myself
right now to show people what I do.
Because it is interesting with thetester because as I was leading
and I kind of chuckle myself.
Some years ago, the flying mirrorcars, I either the Monte spec or
however you wanna pronounce it,were not the car anyone wanted.

(11:35):
They wanted the two mirror only that,but now it's gone the other way.
Now people want the flying mirror.
Yeah.
So it's got a little more valueto and stuff, and it was just, it
makes me chuckle towards the end.
Then you got the TRS and you got thefive 12 M. So it's got those variants in
there where those variables are there.
But it really can kind of saylike, pinpointing is like going
to your customer, saying, okay.
What are you looking to buy?
What are you trying to achieve with it?
Yes.

(11:56):
It's like, well you could have thislow build towards the end production,
final tweaks, beginning, build,flying mirror, you know, you need
this da da da and that kind of stuff.
But you know, you have everythinggoing across it, which I
thought was really neat too.
'cause you usually don't see that isnot only did you have the sell, but
auction ones, you know ones that didn't.
And I mean, someone that's lookinginto buying up test row potentially.
Don and it's great information toreally make an educated purchase

(12:18):
because you can see where it's at.
Exactly.
Now what I tell my people is like, look,you know, if you're buying this as an
investment and think you're gonna makemoney, that's not the way to buy a car.
But if you wanna, you got the datathat's backing up, which is fantastic
'cause you can really see where thingsgo and that, that was a great example.
You know, I mean, you nailed it.
It's a great bellwether in regardsto putting information out there.
One, there are enough of them built, butalso enough variations of it technically.

(12:41):
Okay, what are you looking to do?
Or where would you wanna be at?
And because it, it's an awesome site.
Thank you.
It's fantastic.
And to get that some granularityto what value and sort of what
the, uh, the recommendation is.
So it's kinda like on CNBC or whatever,they're saying, this is a buyer or a
sell, or I recommend this kind of thing.
It's a bit of a dangerous thing.
So I have to say, here's thedata to support what I'm saying.

(13:02):
You're an adult andyou're a decision maker.
This is meant to guide you andyour advisors and to help you to
make those decisions yourself.
Yeah.
But yeah, there's so many variables.
And the other thing is classic andcollector cars is such a passion
driven field and it's only explodedover the last 10, 15 years.
And I did a report on the, uh,1989 to 94 Ferrari apocalypse.

(13:24):
I called.
There were a lot of enthusiasts, butthere was a lot of speculation, a lot of
Japanese money that was in the market.
And a lot of those cars havesince been repatriated over
here to North America again.
But I remember that very, very well, uh,as a student because always had a love
for classic cars and collector cars.
But getting the analysts takeon and in the financial papers
was kind of eye opening for me.

(13:46):
I think we're in a much broader market.
There's a much more solid base towork from in the market today, and
a lot of the online auctions and alot of the live auctions with the
cars that they've expanded into.
Enthusiast cars, Japanese cars, BMWs,A MG, Mercedes, stuff like that.
Where people are really gettinginto it and very fiercely loyal.
It's just made everything better foreverybody, a lot better base to work from.

(14:08):
It's not as peaky as it used to be or asfocused on one mark or one type of car.
Do you see AI playing some typeof role in this in regards to the
data and everything like that?
You have to be extremely careful with AIas it stands right now, and it's never.
Something you can rely on 110%.
You have to really question everything.
I think it actually demands as muchdiligence as being an expert in a certain

(14:32):
field and doing your own research.
You still have to question everything.
You still have to double check everything.
Even if you use it.
It's a tool.
It's a help.
It doesn't replace whatpeople are already doing.
No, I agree.
Yeah, it, it's just one of thosethings that if harnessed properly can
be powerful and helpful, but if usedlackadaisically, it's going to show.
As such.

(14:52):
Definitely.
When someone comes to you for a report,what's their number one compared to their
number five in regards to, this is whatI'm looking for to get out of this report?
What are they really trying todelve into and get out of it?
Ever since I've gotten into the businessas a catalog writer, you're in contact
with owners all the time, unlessyou're told not to contact somebody.
I've had so many conversationswith so many great people and and

(15:13):
the number one thing is, Dave,what do you think my car's worth?
Yep.
How much can I get?
Yeah.
Well, I'm not a qualified appraiser.
Right.
You have to be so diplomaticwhen you're dealing with people.
'cause it's also a very emotional thing.
A lot of people are very attachedto this type of thing, more
so than other luxury items.
Like I call them alternative assets.
I mean, you know, some peopleare really turned on by the
wines they have in their cellar.

(15:34):
Okay, great.
But it seems like the passion componentor the emotional aspect of ownership
really attaches to collector cars.
Very much so.
But what do you think my car is worth?
And I have to kind of steerthe conversation away.
Yeah.
Because it's outside my pay gradeor here's what the reserve is.
Do you think that's right?
And everybody's alwayslooking for a sounding board.
They're always wanting to know thatthey're making a sound decision.

(15:56):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
The other thing is auction estimates.
Always problematic.
That takes a lot of handholding as well.
So that's one of the things I do inone of my reports is, uh, help out
with suggested reserve prices andsuggested estimate ranges as well.
And, and the other thing, an appraisalis a snapshot at a specific moment
in time and things can change.
So I have people that would come to meand they'd give me an appraisal report

(16:18):
that's four or five years old and I'd haveto gently tell them it's way outta date.
And yeah, you need to have another one.
I recommend you get another one.
And I have a list of people.
That you may wanna choose from,but this is sort of a tool that
can help with that process.
They generate comparables,which really helps as well.
I've seen some appraisal reports, noteverywhere, but I've seen them where
it just says, this is the type of carthat does very well at certain options.

(16:41):
And there you go.
So you have to have the due diligence,you have to have comparables, you
have to have a methodology as well.
So that's baked into thosereports as well as, you know.
An auction sale number cana lot of times not really
indicate true value of that car.
'cause who knows the twopeople buying us like that.
But then you also have, okay, like retailsales, you know, market out there price.
That was fantastic too.

(17:01):
'cause you know exactly why that thingsold for that because so and so and so and
so were bidding over so it went $500,000over the high, that kind of stuff.
Whereas, okay, here's reality.
'cause again, like a clientcomes to you, they have a car.
What can I get or what's my car worth?
Well, it's like, well, here,let's look at the numbers.
But then it's also, well, wegotta look at your car too.
'cause this is what there're, but wegotta see where your car's placed at.
Exactly.

(17:21):
You have all those different pitpoints that you can kind of say,
say, look, here's an auction thing.
Here's privacy, here's retail.
You know, here's what it got bid to.
It didn't sell.
Say on bring a trailer.
You have those numbers too.
Well, it can really give.
Someone for like me going to someonewith their car wanting to sell it,
they'll go like, here, you know?
Right there, it's straightforward.
It's giving you exactly what you'relooking for, where you wanna be at, and

(17:43):
give yourself a good, educated decision.
You know, obviously when it boils downto it, you can give all the details,
info you want to the owner or whoever,but they're gonna make their own choice.
Yeah, that's right.
You know, you don't want themto burn themselves out there and
go, oh, I think my car's worth2 million when it's worth one.
You know, that kind of stuff.
Oh, yeah.
You know, because then the car's done.
That's right.
As I've been listening to you guystalk about the valuation system of the

(18:06):
vehicles and how the metrics are puttogether and how the data is analyzed,
there's a very important undercurrenthere that I think we need to address
head on, which is worth versus value,and they are not the same thing, although
people think they are synonymous.
But I just wanna understand wherethe high watermark is because if I
was an investor looking at, let'ssay, the Testa roaster report.

(18:27):
I'm not seeing the appraised value,which for me is the high watermark of
what the vehicle could sell for basedon what I've been told by an official
in the market versus to Williams'point, what the auctions are saying
because the auctions are subjective.
If I got into a bidding war with you andthat car is suddenly $500,000 over, if I'm
a data analyst, that to me is an extremethat gets taken out of the equation.

(18:51):
Yeah, it's an outlier.
It skews the data set.
What is the tester Rosa actually worth?
Based on what the appraisers aresaying versus when the gavel drops.
That's why I want a little bit ofbetter understanding, and I have
a feeling the audience is sort ofwondering, how does your math work
when you come up with these valuations?
I use, uh, number one, thenumber four condition grades for
specific vehicles and mileage.

(19:12):
Mileage would go into theequation to colors, even colors.
Some are far more rare than othersthat help influence the market value.
As far as appraisals go, I, Iwholeheartedly agree, someone needs
to actually see the vehicle needs totake a look at what I'm doing, but they
need to look at the vehicle itself, ofcourse, and that can be different than
what's been selling in the marketplace,where the numbers are coming from.

(19:33):
I've seen many times wherean appraisal comes in.
10 to 40% higher than thanwhat an actual market value is.
Depends on how recent it is as well.
It's the same thing as witha real estate appraisal.
When I was in banking, you'd havea, a market value estimate from the
appraiser, but you'd also have areplacement value for the physical item.
You know, what it wouldtake to replace it.
And those are always twodifferent things as well.

(19:55):
Mine is based more on market and momentum.
If there's good buying activity orselling activity, if there's any
kind of like a velocity in the marketwhere cars are moving or not moving,
it would pick up on that as well.
But doesn't that fall victim tothe same adage in housing, which
is your house is only worth whatsomeone is willing to pay for it.
At the end of the day, regardlessof what the numbers say in the
house buying process, the appraisalis over what it's selling for or

(20:18):
it's under what it's selling for.
So we're in that same game.
So the car is worth what someoneis willing to pay for it at
the end of the day, right?
Yeah.
You need willing buyer and a willingseller and a, and a reasonable.
Timeframe.
Yeah.
So going back to thedata to establish trend.
Mm-hmm.
You still need a, like in science,you need a constant to test
against, in your case, for yourdata set, what is your constant?
Is it mecu M'S value?

(20:39):
Is it Sotheby's value?
Is it an a private appraisal value?
'cause you have to have something acrossthe vehicles to make it consistent.
Oh, for sure.
Where I get my numbers, I make aweighted average to get my score
that I score a car at out of 10.
So.
Let's look at the tester example here.
Sure.
Let's stay with that.
I'm looking at not only the differentauction houses online and a and live, one

(21:00):
of the biggest tools I use is actuallyclassic.com, if you've seen that, where it
has a rolling five year, uh, scatterplotof all the sales that have taken place
and listings, even if it's unsold.
So that's a huge tool to use.
So I'm going back as faras I can through that.
I use, again, a condition multiplier.
My assumptions are based on whether ornot a car, unless I'm told otherwise,

(21:20):
is an excellent number two condition.
If it's a Concor quality car,it's gonna have a 20% multiplier.
If it's a driver, number three, we'regonna take the baseline down by 20%.
So I'm looking at sales trend.
For the value scope that I didfor the test aero, I'm looking
at rarity or commonality.
So the score will be higher orlower for cultural significance.
So the, the test aerosa gets a bump,it's like a nine outta 10 as far as

(21:43):
its, uh, pop culture status cost.
I also look at maintenancecosts and service costs.
The higher, the worse it is.
So I'm not a mechanic, but Ithink you need an engine out
just to do the timing belt.
So that's weighed into this as well.
Demographics, which generations are, areinto these cars or not, and whether or
not these cars are steady at the auctions.
Definitely this is meant tosupplement or assist in the process.

(22:06):
I always tell people to get an properappraisal, get a recent, a fresh one, so
you know also what you're dealing within terms of condition and comparables.
With this, I'm coming up with 160,000US for that generation of tester, Rosa,
if you're looking for a sale, and asfar as reserve prices, so if you're
taking one to auction, just don't wantlisteners to think that, well, this is
the Kelley Blue Book for classic cars.

(22:26):
'cause it's not.
Gosh, no, no.
Because if you think about the thingsthat you're describing and the one to
five scale and take into account mileageand the options and the color and that.
Mm-hmm.
Kelly does the same thingfor pedestrian cars.
Yep.
We wanna make sure that we differentiatewhen we're talking about this.
Maybe this is a future capability.
Say I'm going the other directionand William and I have these
conversations all the time.

(22:47):
I got 200,000 to spend.
So tester Rosas on the list, but howdoes this compare to maybe a car that's
older of more significance or a carthat's newer that might not have all
these mechanical issues like you talkedabout engine out to do timing belts.
Chain driven Ferrari where Ican spend 200 grand and still
have a V 12 or whatever it is.
So, comparables across vehiclesor is that yet to come?

(23:08):
That's something I'm gonna be rollingout a bit more as I, as I evolve things.
The biggest thing is ifyou've got a more rare car.
It's going to score higherin my scoring matrix.
If it's easier to maintain,that'll have a better score too.
So you could take a car that'sless exotic, but perhaps more
rare in terms of build numbers.
It'll have its own scores and weightingsthat'll help us to determine value, but

(23:30):
it also ties into what auction and online,offline, and dealers are selling for.
But there might be a chance toidentify through this system, a car
that might break out to the buy side.
Or one that's already been loved in themarket and it might be time for a pause
or a break in selling or, or value.
So it just depends on the individual,you're make and model kind of thing.

(23:51):
And it, it's individual attributesAbove all, you know, this should be
something that would be consideredto help with selling, marketing, and
auction set up for a car like this.
Always have an appraisal thoughfrom a, an accredited appraiser
in combination, I figure that moreinformation is better than less.
Of course.
David, are you primarily focusingon the exotics on the Ferraris
and Lamborghinis of Porsches, orare you gonna grow this out to.

(24:16):
As Eric always has morepedestrian type cars.
I mean, for example, the IROC Camaro Yeah.
Is absolutely going crazy right now.
They are, and that to me has always been,I mean, I don't wanna say surprising.
I've always liked that car.
Always knew it would be somewhere Idon't think I knew it would be this.
Somewhere.
So is that a car that's on your site?
Are we looking atoddballs like for a name?

(24:37):
Taurus, SHO.
Yeah.
That car is slowly starting to percolateor are you sticking to that narrowed?
We love exotics.
Where, where are we going with this?
Yeah.
The starting point was just me doingsome test cases and then illustrating the
methods that I'm using to get my numbers.
If it was anything, like you said,uh, an IROC from the eighties
and there's a couple of differentflavors of them, enough that you can

(25:00):
break that down into more granular.
Types of cars inside of them?
Like are you looking atthe five liter or the 5.7?
Are you looking at the one L?
Yeah, it's got the compact.
Yeah.
I'd love to tackle those becausethere's a huge amount of sales data
on those and the good cars, like thereally nice unadulterated original
cars are so rare in that space.

(25:20):
It's like fox Mustangs.
But I think what I would do isI'd have to break it down like
you said, and thank you for that.
You said the iroc, so that gives me morecertainty with what I'm dealing with.
The only difference would be powertraincolors and condition and mileage.
That'd be an interesting test case.
So if someone wanted me to do that,I, I, I'd be happy to run one and, and
just so they see it, because that'sa, a more mainstream car right now.

(25:41):
It's like second generation F bodies arestarting to kind of make a nice breakout.
They were everywhere and peoplejust kind of went, we like
'em, but we don't know why.
They're not really doing much in themarket, and you can buy much more powerful
cars or this, that, or the other thing.
But they were very special for their time.
And now people like me, I had a 10thanniversary, uh, TransAm back in the

(26:02):
eighties that I saved up for with farmmoney and lawn mowing and hay baling
money and tobacco picking money.
And that was my first car.
And, and I absolutely adored it.
But now second Gen F. Bodiesare starting to get their due
a little bit in the market.
So I'm appreciating seeing those kind ofcars that were produced in larger numbers,
having attention now with enthusiast.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'd love to see what fits a buy seller.

(26:23):
A hold over my four time periods.
I brought up the Camaro 'causeit's a common, and it's certainly
not in the, uh, in the ballpark ofpastor or tta or any of those guys.
That's not necessarily true, Don.
And that this adds another use case.
To the equation here in that you havecars crossing the block in Mecu at
Barrett Jackson at other auction houseswhere you have a modified Camaro or a

(26:46):
Resto Modd Camaro, or something thatis, you know, is a SEMA quality car,
which is beyond concourses level.
Is that being taken to account here?
Because those will sell for$200,000 all day long, right?
Yeah.
David, how are you absorbingthose modified versions instead
of the original purist cars?
I think that the modified cars, especiallyF Bodies and Corvettes, especially

(27:09):
second generation Corvettes, there'sjust so many of them that are built
to that standard that are restomod,couple of orders of magnitude better
than the original car in terms ofwhat it's like to drive or operate.
What I would do in those cases isseparate that out, you know, look at
the modified cars more in isolation thatare done to a show standard as opposed
to something that's more original.
It changes your metrics again, becausethose cars need to be considered,

(27:32):
let's say they're numbers matching.
Even though they're modified, theystill are in the same category
as a numbers matching stock car.
Why would we take them out?
It gets a little gray really fast.
Well, if the car that the customer'sasking me about is a stock or a
modified car, then that's where I'mgonna have to like break that out.
So I'm comparing apples to applesinstead of apples to oranges.

(27:52):
That's why I started outwith four GT Heritage.
That's a very uniform car.
Unless it's been modified and thereare a few out there, like you were
saying before, what's my car worth?
And somebody says, no, David,that's not what it's worth.
I just saw a Copo Xma car goacross the block and it's 250,000.
Why isn't my Camaro 250,000?
Right?
So now you get into this tug ofwar again of worth versus value.

(28:14):
So I wanna make sure that we establishthat so people really understand what the
intrinsic value is versus what it's worth.
So one is more subjective than the other.
I know I keep harping on this, butI think it's important for the first
time collector to understand thatyou just don't walk up to an auction,
go, I want that one, or I'm gonnasell mine because I saw that one.
Right?
It's not a monkey see,monkey do situation.

(28:34):
Now I've seen people do that actuallywalk right up to me at an auction
and just say, how much is that car?
I wanna buy it right now.
I didn't buy it last night.
There are people outthere that are like that.
Again.
Yeah.
I'd have to parse out is the car modified?
Is it standard?
Is it, you know, rest a monitor?
Is it just lightly modified?
I mean, headers and duals don't makeanything too much of an outlier.
In this case.
It's gonna be a littlebit of a custom job.

(28:56):
I always like that there's expectation.
There's reality that I always like,'cause people have this expectation.
But then here's reality.
Here's where I found the gapis widest is dealing with.
An enthusiast type car that someone'sowned for a while and they have a bit
of an emotional bond with, there's a,an older couple, a few years ago they
had a 56 Ford Fairlane, crown Victoria.

(29:18):
They'd owned it for 30, 35 years.
They loved it.
They went cruising withit, but it's a driver.
They were so attached to itthat, again, when you're talking
about value versus worth.
They had 30 years with it of fun cruisingand showing they bought it when it was not
worth comparatively as much as it is now.
And certainly inflation alsofigures into the numbers that people
are expecting to get from a car.

(29:38):
A million dollars today was ahundred thousand dollars about
15 years ago, or 20 years ago.
I'm exaggerating a little bit, butthere's a big gulf based on inflation.
So I said to the pe, the lady I said.
What do you have in mind for a value?
She told me and I said, now, just sothat you know, in this market right now,
that's a bit on the high side, and youknow, does the car owe you anything?

(30:00):
Do you owe money on it?
Was there a huge expense that you'vehad over the last few years that's
going to affect your decision?
And often a lot of people.
When they've made a big investmentin a vehicle after buying it,
they feel they need to recoupthat last dollar they put into it.
And that's another thing.
But I've seen the gulf between marketvalue and personal value or worth is
huge on the more mainstream side of cars.

(30:22):
A lot of people on the higher end of themarket are kind of dialed in and they
want to do the best when they're sellingand they wanna do, do the best when
they're buying and get the lowest price.
But I've seen it more on the sub$50,000 car market where there's that
kind of golf cars can even, like,depending on where they come from.
I'm not drilling down into that aspectof it right now, but there's certain
markets or certain locations where carsare just uniformly of better quality.

(30:43):
Especially in the mainstreamside or the enthusiast side.
Obviously you know, you're doing thesefor a customer or client, you know,
so it's obviously model specific, butwhat is driving you to put ones onto
your site for general consumption?
Yeah.
How are you picking whatto put on your site then?
Because obviously thetester was a great example.
I think the four GT one's a great onetoo, because you know it's a very popular
car, but how are you going about pickingthose, what you're gonna put on the

(31:05):
website for just general consumption?
For those that are like test casesthat I'm publishing proactively,
there's a finite bill number.
Now the tester is not particularlyrare with over 7,000 built, but it's
far more rare than a lot of otherexotics and uh, high performance
cars despite that many being built.
The tester is styling thecultural status of it.

(31:26):
You know, having been on MiamiVice and that whole thing.
I think that just is a good test casebecause that's something that a lot
of people, whether or not they ownone or plan to own one, they can at
least identify with to some extent.
The four GT on the other hand isthat Heritage Edition is just.
Really rare.
There's no question as to whetheror not they're real or faked.
That's the other thing.
Unlike some vehicles that out therethat have that potential, both of 'em.

(31:48):
I mean, I've only seen a few modifiedgts, let alone a heritage that's
been modified and tester roses.
I don't see them beingmodified very often at all.
No, you don't.
So it's a nice case because they'refairly uniform in that subset of cars.
Or the models thattheir manufacturer made.
So I thought I'd try those becauseI think there's some rarity to them.
There's some visual impact.
The performance aspect isinteresting and they're just

(32:10):
interesting cars all around that.
People, I think, would gravitate to justto throw that out there just to show what
my different tools, if I run a certainyear, make model through those filters.
Is it a buy?
Is it a sell?
Is it a hold?
What are the timeframes for those things?
It's a good example for, Iwould say a sales tool for you
in regards to getting clients.
Yeah.
They see that.
They're like, oh, okay.
It's a good basis to work fromfor somebody to get the idea of

(32:32):
what you're capable of doing.
That's what I took from that.
I was like, wow, this is great.
If someone sees it, Hey, I want anindividual report, that the right thing.
It's like, there you go.
It says it all right there.
So that was fantastic.
Sort of just a couple of test cases.
I'm gonna keep rolling them outand also the market changes.
From auction to auction orthere's trends definitely.
But the idea is eventually, uh, thosereports will need to be freshened up a
little bit and to see how they compare.

(32:54):
So maybe a year from now Igo back and just have a look
at how do my calls hold up.
And the idea is if they hold up ormaybe there's some tweaks that need
to be made or maybe something happenedin the market in general that's, uh,
affecting market values in that space.
Say the 250,000 and over, or the ahundred thousand and over market segments.
Yeah.
How are you going to make.
That decision to go back and revisitsomething to adjust it to your 0.6 months

(33:18):
or a year, I mean, or you just go, oh, themarket seems to be gone a different way.
I had just done that, so Ibetter go back and do it.
I mean, you could have a set timemaybe, or just gonna say what the market
does, if it necessitates it to do it.
I was doing a forward market indexlooking ahead the next 30 days in the
market, and then to get a score as tojust the market in general, its health.

(33:38):
And whether it's bear neutral or or a bullmarket, kind of like in financial terms.
What I've done now is I'vechanged that to weekly.
So I'm doing weekly forecasts.
Right now.
I'm only getting them publishedTuesdays or Wednesdays, but
it's for the week ahead.
Then afterwards, when this weekis over on Monday, I'm gonna run a
report and that's the market pulseand that's my Fear Andre Index.

(33:59):
And I'm gonna say, how did myforecast hold up against reality?
I've done a couple of posts nowthat show that both the weekly
forecast and then the look.
Back the retroactive look.
Those are both now pretty closely aligned.
So it's, it's showing thatthe methodology is jiving.
When I make a forecast using my system,when I look back the next week, they're

(34:19):
almost in line with each other perfectly.
So, yeah, I, what I'd probably want todo is maybe a month to three months out
at the end of the year, say, how didmy report on the test Aerosa workout?
Did that logic hold up?
Did my call on the four gts?
How did that hold upover this period of time?
You just do a little bit of back testinglike that just to show that it's working.
I like how you're, you'rereferencing t how did I do?

(34:40):
Yeah, in regards to forecast, which isgreat 'cause a lot of people would bury
it 'cause they don't wanna look likethey prove it wrong or had no idea.
But anyone that knows this industryand business, you never know.
I mean, you can use all the numbers youdon't know, but I really like that too.
Yeah.
I was like, look, here's how it wentand I don't have anything to hide.
I'm just putting this out there.
This is my method.
Does it hold up?
Okay, great.
It did hold up.
So I've had two one week periods wherethe, uh, forward look and the look

(35:03):
back were in line with each other.
They almost had the same scores, youknow, so the look back is the reality
and the look forward is the forecast.
Of course, that seems to be working.
One of the things I've worked in issort of geopolitics a little bit too.
You know, how's the news?
Is it bad or is it stable?
Or is it good?
You know, or is everybodygetting along now?
In this week's newsletteronce I get it out.

(35:25):
Finally, the first post is I'mbreaking a golden cardinal rule here.
I'm actually discussing politics.
One of the things I should betalking about, but here's a
buffet of seven potential blackswans that could land anytime.
I don't wanna throw coldwater and everything.
The market's been good.
The market has breadth.
There's a wide market.
There's a huge number of types of cars,classifications of cars, enthusiasts to

(35:47):
investor grade and everything in between.
So it's not like the narrow Ferrarimarket of 35 years ago, and that's it,
where it's very risky and speculative.
Also, the last 25 to 30 years, there'sa just a massive amount of money in
the system, despite the news you hear.
There's people that are getting hugebonuses and they have to put it somewhere.
There's only so muchreal estate you can buy.

(36:07):
There's only so much fine wine,cigars, time pieces you can buy.
So, so that's where the, our market's,uh, really been getting an uplift as well.
There's a chart, I've got a reporton showing insider buying and selling
of stocks, but with one or two brief.
Moments since 1998, company insidershave been selling stocks and freeing up
capital and buying cars among other thingsas well can be a lot more prevalent.

(36:30):
I mean, you've seen it now where theygot the investor goose, whatnot, buy a
chair for $20 and whatever, you know?
Oh, yeah.
Like the fractional ownership.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've only just recently seen four orfive of them where there were one of them
that's kind of cropping up right now.
It'd be interesting to see how that goes.
I mean, what I'd like to do is actuallybuild a list where there's a specific
set of, say, 20 different year makeand model of cars that have the most

(36:53):
potential to be good to purchase.
They're not overpriced right now.
They're emerging as collectibles, andsomeone could put a fund together or
put a group together or for themselvesand use those reports as guidance.
To build a garage full of greatcars and hopefully enjoy them.
It's not all about the money.
Drive 'em.
Absolutely.
It's a major consideration forpeople getting into purchase

(37:13):
or getting into the market.
But for me, it's the love of them.
I see stuff on marketplace every day.
There's beautiful cars being soldfor less than 10,000 Canadian dollars
that have less than 50,000 miles onthem, and they're fun and interesting.
You don't have to spend a huge amountof money on something like this.
It can be a really fun hobby.
I think the biggest thing is,for me, it was just simply.
There's other content creators outthere that are doing that job so well

(37:38):
and building their niche so well.
I have rudimentary skills with a camera.
Forget video.
There's other people that havebigger followings or they know
how to work the algorithms toget the right response they want.
For me, it was simply, I'd liketo see if I can add some value to
people where you can take a lookat these reports or you can order a
report from me and I can build it.

(37:58):
And then that gives you someconfidence as to what you're doing.
Or maybe it's a confidence insomething you're not doing.
Maybe it's saying, I better justhold onto this for another year.
If it's not costing me money, if it's nothurting me, maybe I just hang onto it.
This has been interesting.
In the past few years, there'sbeen an explosion in regards
to value in classic race car.
They've been going to the roof and youhave log samples going across the board.

(38:20):
You know, we had X collectiongo for 650 million.
I mean, that was an incredible thing, but.
Would you be able to do a reporton someone that's looking at,
Hey, I'm looking at this XY, ZXformula, the one car from 1969,
or you know, old Lamont's car.
Is that something you could potentiallydo as well for an old race car?
And I want to dovetail off that,William, because I think now when
David takes that into account, heneeds to invert his scale because a

(38:43):
concourses quality race car never raced.
Yeah.
Right.
You want the one that'sthe driver with the miles.
Yeah.
That won a championship.
So you actually have to skewyour data set opposite for this.
Yeah.
For a competition car.
Exactly.
Yeah, because you, you have tohave some earmarks of actual
use in combat or in anger.
There's a Jaguar D typeonce a few years back.

(39:04):
I think it brought over $20million at auction in Monterey.
That was achieved, even though thatcard had been beaten up so much that the
chassis tag was the only thing, and the,and a stamp on, on one of the frame rails
was all that was left of it that actuallycrossed the finish line At Lamont, there's
a lot of Ferrari that have been re bodiedor whatever, and it's part of the story.
The one of the coolest ones for meis that two 50 GT uh, bread wagon.

(39:26):
I used to know the fellow thatowned it one or two owners ago,
and he raced it in vintage races.
We saw it this summer at Lamont Classic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's driven, right?
Oh yeah.
It was raced at full tilt this summer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, and the thing about itthough is, okay, so a lot of body
panels, it got stuffed a coupletimes and it's mostly there.
And you know, some expertredid the body, I mean.

(39:48):
As authentic as it can possibly be,but the car was reburied back in
the day, so does it really matter?
You know, that car's raced and it'sbeen in combat kind of thing, and to
me that just makes that car even coolerand more desirable than a lot of others.
Let's take that back to our Testa.
Yeah, use case or ourCamaros and everything we've
been talking about so far.
Can you touch upon your feeling asit applies to the data when you start

(40:11):
getting into the age old, debatepreservation versus restoration?
'cause if I look at thosefive categories, yeah.
As we move down to the driver,you know, the negatives to get
applied to the value of the car.
You could also say that apreservation car lives there
because it's never been serviced.
It's been driven.
It's ori.
Yeah.
But a lot of people pay top dollarfor a preservation class car

(40:33):
versus a restoration concourse.
Well, yeah, and that was a completelyopposite, flipped 20, 30 years ago,
where everything had to be like jewelry.
What I can do is, the nice thing is ifI have logic, I can just change some
of the scoring around a little bit torecognize the fact that a preservation
class car is actually worth more Nowin certain, certain circumstances,

(40:53):
like it's an unrestored classic Enzo.
V 12 Ferrari, and if it's presentableand it's got a great story, then
there's something to be said for that.
So I think there's adjustments thatcan be made, just like when you're
adjusting comps on an appraisal, likewith Ferrari, Jaguar, Mercedes, you
know, you're seeing the manufacturercome up with their own class, each
department, and restoring these cars.

(41:14):
How much value is that adding to itcompared to going to an expert store
that's been doing it for 30, 40 years?
I mean, they've won Pebble Beach, they'vewon all this stuff, you know, it's great.
But how much does the manufacturertrump someone like that?
Percentage wise, or isit really kind of a wash?
Does it matter?
A classic departmentrestoration from the factory.
Versus an expert level restorationor a Conor level restoration

(41:36):
externally by a specialist.
There's times where I've seen value bumps,and you've seen them too, where if a
known re restorer with a great reputationand a great crew hold off a concor
winning restoration, or a multiple award.
Restoration, I would think thatthat would actually enhance value.
But I've also seen in the marketwhere that has not enhanced value
at an auction or a sale situation.
Because 30 years ago, a jewelry levelrestoration that removed all the patina

(42:01):
was worth more than preservation car.
And now we've seen it flip, seein V 12 Ferrari, as you know,
in matters to me, uh, and to alot of people I've worked with.
If a noted specialist who was still aliveat the time did the, the engine rebuild,
for example, that trumps a no name.
Even though they did good work, youknow, sadly, I mean, there's a name
that's built for a good reason andthat's because they've done good work.

(42:22):
Then I think that helps with the value.
There's a lot ofsubjective factors though.
Well, I get it.
In my world, Hey, soand so did the register.
That's who you want.
Does it have it Red Book?
You know, has it gone through class sheet?
It's like, okay, yeah, it's got thisredwood, but doesn't always kind
of really bugged me a little bit.
That's what everyone wants, andnow it's getting more prevalent
in newer cars, so to speak.
It's creeping up into yournineties, early 2000 cars,

(42:43):
depending on what it is model wise.
That's the thing that's likenumber one to have right off the
bat if you're selling a fry's.
I think you touched on somethingreally important here and, and that's
in auction work and catalog writing.
What kind of paperwork does this car have?
Is it a Carfax that only picks uphistory, uh, starting in the, in the
late nineties or early two thousands?
And the car's 40 years old.

(43:04):
You see a lot of things.
But like the classic K book is awesome.
It makes my job easier.
FIA paperwork, if it's a, arace car or homologated car.
But I've also seen, there was a Chaparralmark, one they made, two of them.
I might might have mademore, I'm not sure.
But it's the one car that's notin the, uh, Midland, Texas, uh,
oil museum, Jim Hall's place.

(43:25):
It's the only one I think that'sout in the wild somewhere.
And, uh.
That car had an amazing amount ofpaperwork, and it was extremely
confusing, but when you get into it,there were things that were known in the
pre-internet era, and there were thingsthat were believed to be true because
someone saw a car like it somewhere.
It turns out they didn't havethem separated out properly,
and histories get confused.

(43:45):
So I actually had to take originalshipping documents, copies of those,
and the car went through several formsthroughout its lifetime until it was
restored as faithfully as possible.
It was a lister, excuse me,it was a Lister Chevrolet.
Okay.
Sorry.
It was something from that period though.
And the point was there was a,a mass of paperwork and then
there were letters based on whatsomeone truly, honestly believed.

(44:07):
They weren't fabricating anything.
It was just.
This is in the eighties vintagerace cars were starting to be
appreciated and collected andsold, and then it really became
important to get the story straight.
And so there was quite a lengthyprocess to get through it all.
So despite the volume of paperwork,that was just the beginning.
That was like put a banker's box infront of you and then you go through that

(44:27):
for two weeks and try not to go crazy.
Then there's other thingsthat are far more cut and dry.
There's, you know, the.
Manufacturer statement of origin,like Alpha Romeo say, or Maserati.
There's, uh, copies of factorydocuments, so you know exactly
how that thing left the factory.
It's, it's funny because sometimesthere's a massive paperwork or
massive documentation that is lessof a help than you would think.
And then there's others thatare very much more direct.

(44:49):
And you've seen that too, probably.
Oh, yeah.
And Don, you've seen that too.
I mean, and you know, as a writer there'smore research, the more documents you
have, but that's always one of the biggestthings is how well is the car documented?
You know?
Is anybody still with us thatI've interviewed people like.
There was a All American Racers, IndyCar,about seven or eight years ago that I
had to do a writeup for, for an auction,and I was able to call Dan Gurney's all

(45:09):
American racers when he was still alive.
His administrative assistant, Kathywas right there and she said, oh
yeah, yeah, I'll just go upstairs.
I know where the box is,where the paperwork is for it.
And she was able to like that.
And they did that once though.
And then after that it was kind oflike a bit more reluctance to do it.
I don't know why, butit just created work.
She was willing to do it.
God bless her.
I mean, it was funny and she gaveme like the original invoice to

(45:31):
whoever it was that raced the car.
It was bang, bang, bang that this is it.
Here's who did any, any work toit and you know, and it didn't
get destroyed in back in the day.
So yeah, there's a couple of 'em.
We have a gentleman thatwe're all good friends with.
He has the online database, storageof documents for your classic car,
digitize, everything like that, thatway, and then it can transfer over
and how it's encrypted or whatever.
You're talking aboutJulio at the motor chain?

(45:53):
Yes.
So he is probably onblockchain then with it?
Yeah, an immutable record.
Yeah.
I really think that's great becausethen to your point, oh, it's not lost.
There it is.
You know, it's an actual, tangible asset.
Absolutely.
I always like what he's doing with that.
I thought that it's fantastic andit lives on, I mean, the thing is.
You have the provenance lockedin as much as it can be.
There it is.
And it can be accessed andnot messed with after that.

(46:16):
Correct.
I think that's fabulous.
You always hear about technology'sgoing to do this and do
that, and it's be worried.
That's a great use case for technology.
Yes.
Something like that.
And if it lends.
Strength to the authenticity of thedocuments and to the vehicle itself.
Well, that's a win-win.
Well, on that note, let's move intoour final segment here and just
sort of talk about the servicesthat you're providing, David.

(46:38):
And so you talked about puttingthese prospectuses together upon
request to do the proof of conceptto show that the math works.
That's right.
To show that the algorithmswork and all that kind of stuff.
So basically walk us through yourbusiness process, meaning somebody say,
Hey David, I listened to this podcast.
What's the process look like?
How much does it cost?
Are you doing this as a service?
Yeah, it would be done on a fee basis,a case by case basis on request.

(47:01):
I'm still working out what kindof pricing would be appropriate.
I don't wanna undercharge, I don'twanna overcharge, but it's, it's just
something I'm gonna have to like,get some feedback from people and
I have a sort of a target in mind.
So it's just pretty early stages here.
What I'm doing.
So David, after going throughall this, what's the next
step for you and Motor Copia?
Well, the next step isto keep forging ahead.

(47:22):
Actually, it's kind of exciting.
I'm in the beginning of reaching out tolenders, insurers, leasing companies,
industry people, and alternativeinvestment managers, family offices.
So that's the next step, reaching out,introducing myself, and urging people to
sign up for the Motor Copia newsletter.
I've worked really hard on the subjectmatter, and that's my expertise.

(47:43):
The online marketing is somethingthat I have to work on and something
that I need to do to roll things outbetter, but there's nothing like a
good old fashioned phone call or email.
So that's the next step is just basicallycontacting people and urging them to
sign up or gimme permission to signthem up for the Moto Copia newsletter.
Take a look at my reports.
I'm moving to a, uh, paid model, butagain, I'm working on the pricing

(48:05):
and the levels, but I want people tosee it and talk to me and if there's,
you know, suggestions or ideas aboutthings that can be changed or updated.
Glad I got to get your feedbackon the ones on the website because
I was afraid that I was goingtoo far with the information.
Oh, no.
And I'm glad for that.
That makes me feel so much betterbecause I don't wanna write a book.

(48:25):
On the other hand, you have to be able to.
Defend or justify or promotewhat you're saying, that there's
a thought process that goes on.
Well, no, it was great delving into it.
'cause you know when you start, you'regoing through your, you have your charts
and the numbers and what I thoughtwas great 'cause then all of a sudden,
you know, I start seeing writing, I'mlike gonna go into history and stuff
like that, which I really don't need.
But that was just a quick little blurb.
Like a paragraph?
Yeah.
Maybe I go Perfect.

(48:46):
Because I want the numbersand everything like that.
I know the history of the car,I know all this stuff, da da da.
For sure.
What I wanna see is, okay, what'sthis thing been doing previous?
That's why I, I thought it was fantastic.
'cause it it given you what youwant and it's not giving you
what you don't need and want.
It's like, Hey, this is why came.
Yeah.
This is what I'm supposedto be getting out of this.
You have it set up great in regardsto how everything's laid out.
Well, thank you.
I, I'm glad to get that feedback.

(49:07):
That's huge and, and me as a writer, Imean, I, when I'm not restricted to a
word character and page count, we canall probably go right to town on it.
But is that what someone needs or wants?
And, and that's the other side of it.
You want some information to take actionor decide that you're already in a good
place holding or considering buying thebest example of a car that you want.

(49:28):
My whole thing is, while this isnumbers driven and data driven,
it's passion driven at the root.
What I'm doing, and it's a differentapproach to what I've been doing.
So it's, it's actually pretty refreshing.
I'm trying to get down to a, a reasonableeditorial schedule where I'm putting
out a newsletter every week with fouror five good articles in it that I hope
would give somebody either comfort orhelp them to say, yeah, you know what?

(49:51):
I do need to start consideringthe next set of options.
Yeah, the market's goodor the market's stable.
Yeah, it's been a great fit and I,and I'm hoping it's something that's
unique enough that my target audiencewill appreciate it or get proper
information from, for their own life.
I was just thinking I coulddo another content site.
I could look at doing buyer'sguides or I could do some price, uh,

(50:12):
explorations and things like that.
And then I. Let's look at the market.
The first thing was the, uh, motorcopia market pulse index that I set up,
and it's, it's kinda like a fear andgreed kind of index just to tell you
if the market is cold, medium, or hot.
It's kinda like Goldilocks andthe three Bears give you an idea
of what last week's market actionwas like and is the market stable?
Our, our dealers filling their, theirshowrooms still as aggressively as before.

(50:36):
Is there good sale activity?
Is there a where the sell through isgood at the auctions of last week?
Things like that.
So, uh, just kind of a bit of a readingbetween the lines for people too.
Well, David, we've reached that partof the episode where I'd like to invite
our guests to share any shout outs,promotions, thank yous, or anything
else we haven't covered thus far.
Two things, if anybody wants to, I havea special report on the collector car

(50:58):
market in 2025, and my forecast throughthe end of this year, through the end of
the fourth quarter, it's a PDF download.
I'd be happy to send thatout to any of your listeners.
Would like it.
They reach out to me [e-mail] and just let me know
that they'd like a copy of that report.
I will send the PDF over to themand hopefully start a relationship

(51:19):
with that and add value to their,uh, car collecting or their world.
Secondly, and most importantly,I'd like to thank probably my best
friend in the field who's been mybiggest supporter since I've been
independent as a writer in 2012.
And that's Cindy Mele of, uh, car pr USA.
She is probably the og,the original gangster of.
Collector, car promotionand public relations.

(51:41):
And if you have a worthy event, productor service in the collector car market
or collector car field, I urge youwholeheartedly to reach out to Cindy
at CAR PR USA and you'll get the bestsupport possible to get the word out.
Motor Copia is a digital platformand publication founded by automotive
writer and auction expert David Naan.
It caters to collector cars, enthusiasts,investors, dealers, and anyone interested

(52:05):
in the market dynamics of classic,exotic and special interest vehicles.
The focus isn't just on carculture, it's driven by data.
Motor Copia offers tools, analysis, andreports to help people make informed
decisions about buying, selling,holding, or investing in collector cars.
And David, I can't thank you enough forcoming on Break Fix and sharing your story

(52:26):
with us and educating us on data-drivendecision making when it comes to collector
car buying, selling, and holding.
It's obvious in the way you talk,your passion, your expertise, all
of it is there, and I wish you thebest of luck on your latest endeavor
and we will see where this goes.
Maybe the next 30, 60,90, 12 months from now.

(52:47):
Right?
There you go.
Yeah, as you say on the website.
So thank you for doing this.
Thanks very much for having me,guys, and it's been a pleasure.
Appreciate it.
Yeah.
Good to meet you, David.
Thank you.
Thanks again to Don and William as well.
Thanks for having me.
All the best.
You too.
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(53:09):
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