July 1, 2025 • 38 mins
Tonight, we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to you, sharing in the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different eras of over 100 years of racing.
Hurley Haywood, a name synonymous with endurance racing excellence!
Over the course of 13 attempts at the legendary 24 Hours of Le Mans, Hurley cemented his legacy as one of the greatest sports car drivers of all time. From his debut in 1977 to his final start in 1994, Hurley was more than just a driver—he was a force to be reckoned with. Whether battling through the night or sharing the cockpit with icons like Jacky Ickx and Al Holbert, his impact on endurance racing is undeniable.
With three overall victories, and five podium finishes, all behind the wheel of a Porsche… his story is one of relentless determination, precision, and an uncanny ability to push both man and machine to their limits. We’ll break down his Le Mans career, the highs and lows, and what made Hurley Haywood a legend in the world of Le Mans and beyond.
===== (Oo---x---oO) =====
00:00 Hurley Haywood's Early Racing Days 02:14 First Impressions and Challenges at Le Mans 05:27 Comparing Daytona and Le Mans 07:25 The Rubber Band Rolex Story 08:59 Winning with Porsche 14:26 Racing with Silk Cut Jaguars 17:19 Transition to Audi and Trans Am 19:11 Return to Le Mans with Porsche 20:19 1994 Le Mans Victory 23:44 Challenges & Changes at Le Mans 26:07 Endurance Racing Evolution 27:12 Advice for Aspiring Drivers 31:37 Reflections on Racing and Hurley's Legacy 35:22 Closing Thoughts and Acknowledgements====================
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Evening With a Legend is a seriesof presentations exclusive to
legends of the famous 24 hoursof Lama giving us an opportunity
to bring a piece of LAMA to you.
By sharing stories and highlightsof the big event, you get a chance
to become part of the Legend ofLama with guests from different
eras of over 100 years of racing.
(00:34):
Tonight we have an opportunity to bringa piece of LAMA to you sharing in the
Legend of Lama with guests from differenteras of over 100 years of racing.
And as your host, I'm delightedto introduce Hurley Haywood,
a name synonymous withendurance racing excellence.
Over the course of 13 attempts atthe legendary 24 hours of Lama Hurley
cemented his legacy as one of thegreatest sports car drivers of all time.
(00:58):
From his debut in 1977 tohis final start in 1994.
Hurley was more than just a driver.
He was a force to be reckoned with,whether battling through the night
or sharing the cockpit with iconslike Jackie Icks and Al Holbert.
His impact on enduranceracing is undeniable.
With three overall victoriesand five podium finishes all
behind the wheel of a Porsche.
(01:18):
His story is one of relentlessdetermination, precision, and
uncanny ability to push bothman and machine to their limits.
We'll break down his lamont'scareer, the highs, the lows, and
what made Hurley Haywood a legendin the world of Lama and beyond.
With that, I'm your host crew chiefEric from the Motoring Podcast Network.
Welcoming everyone to thisevening with a legend.
Hurley, welcome to the show.
(01:39):
Thank you for having me.
You have the most attempts so far of anyguest on an evening with a legend 13 total
three wins, five podiums between 77 and94, and since we can't cover them all,
let's quickly talk about your journey upto Lama and how the deal was put together
and talk about some of the highlights.
Joe Hopin, who was in chargeof both Audi and racing here in
(02:00):
the United States, called me up.
One afternoon and said, howwould you like to go to Lamont?
And I said, fantastic.
You know, sign me up.
He arranged with Portia to haveme drive on the factory team.
Was that the first timeyou had raced in Europe?
Yes, that was the firsttime I'd raced in Europe.
Now you gotta remember.
(02:21):
The only really reference I had toLamar was the movie Lamar, you know,
read about it in, in magazines.
And I never really thought outwhat the city of Lamar was like.
So when I flew over, I flew into CharlesDega, rent a a car, and drove to Lamar.
Well, I was shocked.
(02:41):
Lamont is a huge city, very industrial.
I was completely lost.
I didn't speak very good French.
I was just kind of driving aroundtrying to find something that I could
recognize and nighttime fell and Iwas driving down this little alley.
There was a guy with a Porschejacket on and I said, can you
(03:02):
help me find where Porsche is?
So he looked in thewindow and he says, ah.
He says, here, Haywood, we'vebeen wondering where you are.
And, and it turns out that thisguy was Klaus Bischoff, who
was my crew chief for the car.
And he says, you gotta come intothe bar and meet the guys that
are gonna be working on your cars.
You know, I'd been up for like 36 hours.
So I was kind of a walkingzombie to make it simple.
(03:25):
He said, we're not gonna try to tellyou how to get to your hotel, we'll
take you to the cathedral or the.
Tech inspection was the next day.
You can sleep in the back seatand Porsche guys will find you.
I'll tell 'em that you're there.
So that's exactly what happened.
And that morning there was a loudknock on the windshield and it
happened to be Manford Dianca whowas head of the racing program.
(03:48):
And he said, where?
Where the hell have you been?
So that was my introduction to Porsche.
Nowadays, you know, a newbie hasto go through a whole regimen
of testing, whether it's ona simulator, the rule book.
Lights, you know, differentcaution lights, what that
means to controlled areas.
If there's a incident, they don'tclose the whole track, but they close
(04:11):
the area that where the accident is.
That being said, I really had noidea of what the track looked like.
You know, the practice startsat like six o'clock at night
and runs to about midnight.
They said, okay, now is your turn.
And it was pitch black and they said,we'll send Jackie X out and you can follow
(04:32):
him and he'll show you the way around.
That was two laps and then Iwas on my own, you know, the
average speed at that point.
Was 165 miles an hour.
That's pretty fast.
So there's a lot of very faststraightaways and straight
is over 200 miles an hour.
So I really had my hands full, but it kindof all worked out and the team was really
(04:54):
very gracious and, and very helpful, andthey walked me through the protocols, but.
It was something that I wasabsolutely, completely unprepared for.
What happened after we won the race,I mean, there was tens of thousands of
people just swarmed onto the pit lane,and the next day when I got to the
airport, there was a mob of people there.
(05:16):
So it was sort of surrealin, in its presentation.
It was really shocking, but.
I got used to it and I enjoyed it.
So let's unpack that first race.
One of the questions that came up froma lot of the folks that are sitting
in the audience, they wanted to knowhow it compared to racing at Daytona,
and I know they're really night andday, but endurance racing as a whole.
(05:39):
How was Lama in comparisonto the 24 hours of Daytona?
Well, I'm often asked that question.
Daytona is my home track.
I'm 55 miles away from the speedway from.
The races are so different and youknow, I'm often asked what do I
think is the harder race to win?
And I've always said Daytona was harderbecause one, the nighttime is 12 hours.
(06:03):
They have a vast sort of arena of drivertalent, some very professional guys,
and some real amateur people, so younever know who you're coming up to.
That makes it difficult.
Lamont, they have very strictrules and it's sort of the
caliber of teams and drivers.
At the time I was racing there wasmuch higher than in the United States.
(06:27):
That's has changed dramaticallyover the years and to our present
situation where it's probably equal.
But Lamar is such a iconicrace and personally, I. Racing
at Daytona is more difficult.
I asked Norbert Singer what hethought was more difficult and he
said, well, from a race strategy andfrom what happens in the race car,
(06:51):
I think they're both pretty equal.
What makes IMSA better or Daytonabetter is if you make a mistake,
they bring you into the pits andthey say, don't do that again.
And if you do it again, you'regonna be in serious trouble.
Where at Lamont, it's sometimesseveral minutes of discussion what
you've done and making up thaton a track is difficult to do.
(07:14):
So he said, I thinkLamont is more difficult.
So you got a firstimpression of the track.
You got a first impression of your Porscheteammates and the team, but you made a
first impression on the French as well.
I hear Maybe this is legend, maybethis is a little myth busting here, but
there's a story about a rubber band Rolex.
Roland Putin, who was the presidentof Rolex in the United States, called
(07:36):
me up and said, congratulations.
That was wonderful.
You did a great job over there.
You had your arms raised up inthe air, and I noticed that you
didn't have a have a Rolex on.
I said, well, I didn't take myRolexes over there because I
didn't want to get them stolen.
I didn't, you know, so I wentout and bought a Timex iron man.
(07:56):
He said, okay, that makes sense.
So that next Christmas, Rolex hadinvited me up to New York for a luncheon.
When dessert came, a box came with aRolex in it with a rubber band on it.
And he said, this is the leastflashy watch that we can produce.
(08:17):
Well, in hindsight, it wasprobably the watch that got
the most amount of comments.
'cause where did you get that Rolex?
Where did you get that rubber band?
And so recently I became an an officialambassador of Rolex back in 1991.
It was a handshake.
That was all we needed.
They were completely honestand they were, you know, really
(08:38):
good to me and over the years.
And Luca said, it's time that we signedyou up with a, a bonafide contract.
And I said, that's great.
Contract was one page.
Basically the situation wasthat when you go in public.
Please wear a Rolex.
That was about it.
So they're a great company to work for.
(08:59):
Talking about your 77 season again in thePorsche, 9 36, Harley Clarkson wrote about
his vantage point in competing againstyou with his team, and he said there were
tons of challenges with the car, and yetyou and Jackie and Jurgen Barth still
managed to bring the car home for a win.
So what was that like?
You know, they gave me thehonor of starting the race.
(09:19):
That's a pretty heavy weighton your shoulders when you are
starting a race like that with noexperience as far as the start goes.
So we take off and the throttlesfixed wide open in the first corner.
I managed to get out of theway of everybody get it slowed
down with the throttle stuck.
(09:40):
You couldn't push the clutch down'cause you would over rev the motor.
The first thing that came to mymind, well hit the ignition switch.
Well, I did that and.
I was in the grass and it was hardto sort of bump start the car again.
I had to take off the rear bonnet.
We had actually practiced takingoff the rear bonnet to get to the
engine, which was a mammoth thing.
(10:01):
I mean, probably weighed what that hoodweighed, but I managed to get it off,
found out what the problem was, gotthe throttle fixed, and got back in and
started up and went back to the pits.
I think we lost maybe two orthree laps during that episode.
I went back to the pits.
They fixed it and everything was great.
Jackie's car had a, had a mechanicalproblem and they moved Jackie
(10:23):
over with Jurgen and myself.
And Jackie is a absolute masterat night and in the rain.
'cause it always rains atsome point during that race.
And then when it rains, it doesn'train on the whole track, it
rains in portions on the track.
So Jackie fought during the night.
Jurgen and myself sort of was a backup.
(10:45):
It all kind of worked out.
Porsche really has a, a wonderfulability to put sort of like
personalities together in the car.
We're all secure withbeing racing drivers.
We're not out there to provewho the fastest guy is.
We're there to win the race and everybodydoes the job that they're supposed to do.
And that's been the case onall the cars I've ever driven
(11:07):
for Porsche with teammates.
It just was reallyspecial to win that race.
Well, I'm glad you brought upteammates 'cause we're gonna
jump ahead of here a little bit.
1978 and 82, you podium, you comeback in 1983 for your second win in
the Porsche 9 56 and Mark Hal wrote,what was it like driving with Al
Holbert and Vern Schoen as teammates?
(11:28):
How did your driving styles differ?
How did your strengths work witheach other or against each other?
I knew Al long before we racedtogether at le, and he is a great
driver and a great friend and.
The same feeling for thecars along with Vern.
The three of us together made areally potent team and the, the 9
(11:53):
56 was a difficult car to drive.
The geometry in the car was, youknow, a lot of effort went into the
steering and IMS a would not allowthat car to race in, in the states.
They said, well, you know, you gotta getthe driver's feet behind the front axle
thinking that Porsche would never do that.
Well, that was how the 9 62 was developedand they long gated the wheel base, and
(12:18):
that made all the difference in the world.
That thing was just a sweetheartto drive, and it was kind of
like a driver's dream come true.
It had so much down force thatthe cornering speeds were like.
On a railroad track, so it, itwas really nice to drive that car.
Up until this point, you hadthe chance to race with some of
the best drivers in the world.
As your teammates, can you sharesome memorable experiences with your
(12:40):
teammates that really stand out?
Can't even count how many drivers I'vedriven with, but guys I've driven with
in the long distance races, we allkind of had the same mission motivating
us, and that was to win the race.
We weren't there to set the fastest time.
We were there to do zero mistakes.
Bring the car back in one piece, andwe all kind of contributed to that
(13:02):
thinking, and we would sit down afterour practice sessions and kind of say,
well, you know, what are we gonna do?
We don't wanna get into a wheel towheel fight with somebody, because
that's when mistakes happen.
It was kind of a feeling that we had.
We were not sandbagging, we werenot being easy with the car.
We were being easy with the car, but notto the point of being slow with the car.
(13:26):
That's kind of a very delicatebalance where you're trying
to be really quick, but save.
You know, back then we didn'thave sequential shifting.
We didn't have power steering,we didn't have any of that stuff.
It was all done by the driver and itwas very easy to exhaust yourself.
'cause those cars were pretty hot inside.
We had to be careful with that.
(13:46):
And in a two hour stint, Iwould lose five pounds of sweat.
And getting that liquid back into yoursystem was sometimes a real problem.
One time I brought my doctor over,you know, he said, well, the easy
fix for that is hydration with a iv.
Porsche.
Saw how quickly I recovered with that,and they said, okay, it makes sense.
(14:08):
Now that's not allowed becausepeople are afraid that there'd
be doping stuff in the mixture.
But back then, uh.
It was a very efficient wayto get back up to speed.
Later in the 83 season, you hada pretty bad accident at Mosport,
which kind of took you out of theLama scene for the next couple
years, and that brings us to 1986.
You are in the record books twicein the same year on the same team,
(14:31):
and that's the Silk Cut Jaguars.
How did that happen?
How did that work out that you wererunning two cars over 24 hours?
Tom Walkinshaw decided thatthey wanted to bring some very
experienced drivers in long distance.
So they got Brian Redmondand myself to come.
And before that happened, uh, I had brokenmy leg back in 1983, Bob Tuus called up Al
(14:56):
Holbert and he said, I'm thinking about.
Hiring Hurley because you know, he can'tpush the clutch down on a Porsche, but
we have a gearbox and he only has to pushthe clutch to get in and out of the pits.
Al said to Bob, he said, if youcan hire Hurley, do it today
because he's one of the best.
(15:16):
And that's exactly what happened.
So I raised for the Jaguarteam, the Trulia team group,
44 for two and a half years.
And then when that program stopped andit moved over to Walkinshaw, Walkinshaw
decided that he wanted Brian Redman andmyself to come help his team win the race.
(15:39):
We were told basically tokeep our mouth shut and.
Drive as fast as we could go.
'cause he wanted to be ontelevision at the start of the race.
And so eventually all three carshad mechanical problems and we would
move from one car to the other car.
(15:59):
And so I don't wanna get into theparticular, but it was kind of an amusing
round table of guys that were going fromone car to another car and then that car
would break and move to the third car.
So.
A, uh, difficult situation to be in.
And this was during a timewhen the driver stints weren't
as limited as they are today.
You had minimum driving times, butyou didn't have maximum driving times.
(16:22):
So are you able to jumpbetween the two cars?
Yeah.
Correct.
Correct.
So what was it like driving theJags compared to the Porsches
you had run in the past?
Uh, they're gonna hate me when I saythis, but it really, it was like a truck.
It was very loud, very guttural.
I mean, it was not a difficultcar to drive, but it just,
it was like hot rod City.
(16:44):
You know?
The thing sounded really great.
Definitely almost, and it was sort of notas sophisticated as the group 44 car was.
Group 44 car had that 12 cylinder.
It was a beautiful sounding engine.
Lee Dyer was the one that designed it.
And you know, it was a really nice car.
And then when we, when we went backto back to drive the Walkinshaw car,
(17:06):
it was just dramatically different.
I'm not saying it was worse or better,but it was just very different.
So you've mentioned Bob Tuli inGroup 44 a couple times here,
and that brings us to 1987.
One of my favorite yearsof racing in general.
At the same time that you were stillracing at Lamar doing endurance
racing, you started with Bob and theAudi program in Trans Am bringing
(17:27):
the Quattros to road racing.
So what was it like jumping between theAudis and the nine 60 twos and at that
time did you prefer one over the other?
Well, let me back up a little bit.
When Bob Tulio lost the Jaguar deal, atthe same time Audi was thinking about
coming into race in the United States.
(17:48):
And they wanted to sort ofpromote the Audi program.
And Joe Hopin was of coursethe guy that sort of negotiated
all the rules and everything.
He called me up and he said, well,what do you think we should do?
What team do you think we should get?
And I said, well get Tulio.
He's got all the equipment, he's gotthe shop, he's got the transporters.
(18:08):
They're all spotless.
Totally in that Audisort of way of thinking.
So that's what happened and he gotthe deal and everybody went over to
English Scott to talk about the programand you know, work out the details.
But that was one of the greatest cars.
Everybody laughed, said, what are youdoing with driving to basically sedan.
And they stopped laughing after our firstrace because we were just so superior to
(18:32):
everything else on the, on the racetrack.
And then TransAm kicked us out ofTransAm 'cause the cars were so
good that we moved over to imsa.
The cars were not really made to dolong distance races, so we didn't do
day detail and we didn't do se bbr.
But then, you know, I think shook.
Won almost every race.
And I was second in all those races.
(18:52):
So that thing was unbelievable.
700 horsepower, huge tires onthe front end rear, and it was
really a pretty cool car to drive.
And the reason I bring it up is thatI. That wouldn't be the last time you
drove with Hansuk and Walter Rural.
And if we jump forward a little bitand then we'll do, we will dance back.
You actually ran in 1993 with Hans andWalter at Lamont in a nine 11 turbo.
(19:16):
Was that part of thiswhole group 44 contract?
How did that come to be?
No, it didn't have anything to dowith the contract with Group 44.
It was like a prototype.
Nine 11 that we racedat Daytona and Sebring.
I think it was really fast.
It was really a great car.
And then we were also gonna race that carat Lamont with Stook, myself and Walter.
(19:42):
That was the race, if my memory's correct,was the race that Walter retired after.
You know, so that wasthe end of that program.
That was a really cool car, really fast.
Did you guys choose to drivetogether or was that pre-ordained?
It was pre-ordained.
They wanted an American, which wasme and Walter of course, and Hans.
Were great friends and, andfantastic drivers and very fast.
(20:05):
So we were kicking ass in Daytonaand then we had a, I think Danny
Sullivan drove with us at Daytona.
There was four guys at the,on the team at Daytona.
A mechanical failure.
We were out of the race.
We were leading at the time.
Now, as we jump back into theearly nineties, you've returned
to Lamont many times again behindthe wheel of Porsche nine 60 twos.
(20:26):
And we're gonna talkspecifically about 1994.
That's lucky.
Number 13, your final win at Lamont inLMP one with a 9 62 LM at the age of 46.
Well, you know, the car thatwe ran in 94 was a dower car,
and the dower car was a 9 62.
That was.
(20:46):
Made for the street.
Norbert Singer found a loophole inthe, in the rules that all we had
to do to make that car legal wasto eliminate the ground effects.
And we did a lot oftesting in the wind tunnel.
We did a lot of testing on tracks.
We went to, I think Paul Ricard or MannyCore and did 24 hour test with that car.
So it was a really a, a nice car to drive.
(21:08):
It was very fast on a straightaway 'causeit didn't have a lot of down force.
So that was really cool.
And so we went testing.
I can't remember.
It was, I think it was Manny Corthat we were testing that, and I
was scheduled to drive with Stok andTerry boots, I think, and myself.
And then me, Baldy and Yannick Damo weregonna drive with Danny Sullivan after
(21:32):
the test, Yannick and Marrow went to thefactory and had a seat designed for them.
They were the same size as I was.
So when, uh, Sullivan got to thetrack on race day on race practice,
he couldn't get in their seat.
He was too big.
So they said, oh, we'll fix that.
We'll just move Hurley over andhe can drive with those guys, and
(21:54):
Sullivan can drive with shooken boots.
And so that's how that happened.
And that was literally one of the veryfew races that I've ever had a seat.
That fit me properly.
Usually I was just sort of hanging onbecause the seats were always big and
they would always have to put in a bigclumsy insert, and you've never really
felt comfortable with those cars.
(22:16):
But that time the seat was perfect.
We would do driver changes and wewouldn't have to adjust the belts at all.
So that was really special.
And it showed when we won, Imean, it was really great car.
Did you wanna run again after 94 orwere you after 13 tries you were done.
After 94, Porsche changed overto production cars, GT cars.
(22:38):
I had made a promise to myself becauseof the speed difference between the
prototypes and the GT cars that I wouldnot ever drive a GT car at Lamont.
Different.
I said no.
And Porsche didn't really have aprototype to race except the GT one.
I can't remember what they calledit, but it was a great car.
(22:59):
But I was kind of out of theloop at that point, so I can't
remember even who drove that car.
Well, I'm gonna pull a question fromthe crowd here, and this can apply
to any Porsche you've ever driven.
Scott writes, which Porschevariant was the most fun to drive?
Not necessarily the fastest, butthe one you enjoyed the most?
The 9, 3 6.
That was the car that I wonLamar with the first time.
(23:20):
It had a, a really beautiful engine.
The car was beautiful to look at.
Had the big shovel above your head.
Because it didn't have groundeffects, it moved around a lot.
It's kind like driving areally powerful nine 11.
You could adjust with your throttlewhat the rear of the car was doing,
but not in an uncontrolled manner.
It was just a really pleasant carto drive, and I like open cars.
(23:44):
You talked a little bit aboutthe challenges of driving at LAMA
and weather is something thatcomes up all the time and then
mechanical sympathy is another one.
You know, being cognizant of thecar and the other drivers and you
know, you need to make it to the end.
You can't win LAMA on turn one.
A lot of the legends that comeon the show, we actually talked
to them about how the experienceof LAMA changed them as a driver.
And you mentioned at the beginningof the conversation that LAMA was the
(24:06):
first time you had raced in Europe.
And again, first impressionsor lasting impressions.
So how do you feel that.
Lama change you, maybe your driving style.
What did you bring home fromevery time you raced at lama?
Well, you gotta rememberthat prior to 1977, I had won
three Daytona 24 hour races.
So the 24 hour format was notsomething that was alien to me.
(24:29):
The same principles that hold truefor being successful at Daytona hold
true for being successful at Lamont.
So my driving style, the wayI thought, the way I trained
didn't really change that much.
The only thing that reallychanged was we had great food, so.
So when you look at Lama's changes andits evolution, you started in the pre
(24:52):
chicane days, and then in 1990 through1994, you drove in the new format.
How was that for you?
Did you have to really relearn thetrack or was it always about the same?
The speed difference between No, chicanesand the Chicanes was almost the same.
It was well over 200 miles an hourbetween the chicanes, but because of
(25:13):
the chicanes, the physical exertion.
Of those two entities was pretty severe.
The breaking was massive.
You really had to come in on thebrakes, and I think that that was
in itself something that really.
Took a toll on drivers and cars.
I much preferred the no chicanes, butthe tire manufacturers just were not
(25:38):
comfortable with that sustained speedwith their product, and I think that
they were pretty instrumental in gettingthe track to put the chicanes in.
Same thing at Daytona with the bus stop atDaytona would enter turn three at over 200
miles an hour on the banking with a lot ofdownforce and a lot of force on the tires.
So they went to the speedway and said, weneed to put a chicane in there to slow the
(26:01):
cars down on the entries into UH, three.
So that I think worked well forthem as one of the most successful
American drivers at lama.
What do you think LAMA means formotorsport in the United States, and
as LAMA has evolved, how do you feelabout the global recognition of lama?
Well, I think cars now, both on theUS side and on the European side.
(26:24):
Are very similar to each other.
They have a little bit different rulepackage, but I think the end result
is really good for racing becausein my day we would win these long
distance races by lapse by miles.
And now at Daytona and at Lamar,you have multiple cars that are
(26:44):
on the same lap after 24 hours.
So I think that that issomething that's good.
I. To be dominant.
I like to win those races by largemargins, but I think from the fan
standpoint, it's better that youhave multiple cars on the same lap
in both prototype and in gt, andthat just makes for a good show.
(27:05):
So there's a lot of young drivers thatare coming up through the system now that
have LAMA as one of their crown jewels.
And so looking back over all your entriesat LAMA and even over your career, what
advice would you give to young aspiringdrivers who dream of competing at the
24 and following in your footsteps?
I think this new generationof drivers is amazing.
(27:27):
Their maturity behind the wheel, howthey deal with all the pressures are.
Mind-boggling really.
I, you know, I looked at kindof what I was like in that era.
It's just a completely differentmindset of these young kids,
and they're super fast.
They don't make mistakes.
They understand theengineering of the cars.
Peter, Greg once told me, he said, youknow, you, you are hired as a driver.
(27:51):
Don't try to be an engineer.
Articulate what the car is doing.
And then let the engineersfigure out what to do.
And I think that that is thecase on many of the young drivers
that are in the sport right now.
They're very articulate.
They know what they're doing, andthey're only gonna get better with time.
So I think the future of racing, thenext generation of superstars is gonna
(28:14):
come from the current crop, both theEuropean and on the American side.
So having returned to Lama manytimes, you've seen a lot of change,
as we talked about with the changeof the course configuration itself.
What are some of the best newthings that had come to Lamas
since you had started there?
In 77, the pits were like, you wouldmake a pit stop and there would be.
Literally hundreds of people that youwould have to dodge through to get into
(28:37):
your pit slot to make the pit stop.
It was just so overwhelming with the crowdof people that was allowed into the pits.
So that's when they built the newpits and the new boxes above the pits.
That was really special and thatmade it much, much safer and.
Much more enjoyable.
We got a couple of crowd questions here.
Terry Johnson writes, with all themodern day advancement in telemetry
(29:00):
communication and all the cockpitgadgets for the driver, do you see your
era as more pure in terms of racing?
Absolutely.
You know, I'm not a big fan ofelectronics controlling the cars.
I like to be in control ofwhat is going on with the car.
And if I want something, you know,I'll radio into the pits and I'll
say, okay, the car's understeering.
(29:21):
What are gonna do?
Now all of that is alreadyknown with telemetry.
They're not necessarily relyingon what the driver says.
They know what, what he's gonna say.
We didn't have sequential shifting.
We didn't have a BS brakes, wedidn't have power steering, we
didn't have air conditioned cockpits.
I'm not saying it's any easier now.
(29:42):
I think with the introduction of all thecommands from the pits to the drivers
on what to do to save energy, theformula for fuel usage and electricity
has to be dissipated at the same time.
So if you come into thepits and they see that.
The battery's been zero.
You're penalized.
That's why it's so importantto listen to the engineers.
(30:05):
They're telling you you're using toomuch fuel, you're using too much battery.
Dial back a little bit.
It's a constant thing, so it'snot just one lap to doing to
do it in almost every lap.
So I don't think I could drivea race car with having somebody
talking to me all the time.
So along with that, Greg Carusowrites, what's the biggest difference
you see in today's endurance racingcompared to when you were racing?
(30:26):
Is it safety?
Is it something you alreadymentioned, or is it something else?
It's all of those things.
Because the cars are so strong andso safe, it sort of gives the drivers
this secure feeling that if somethinggoes wrong, I'm not gonna hurt myself.
In my generation, people got hurt in racecars, people got killed in race cars.
I think that that tempered theway we looked at things and how we
(30:51):
analyze what kind of risks are wegonna take Now in a 24 hour race,
it's 24 segments of 100% performance.
And there's no regard forbeing careful with the car.
You can throw it around, you canbump into somebody and you're
not gonna damage the body work.
They're very strong cars and thesafety equipment is phenomenal.
(31:13):
Helmet technology and race suittechnology is, is really good.
Bladder control on the fueltanks is good, so it is a much
secure and safer environment.
And that makes theracing better and safer.
You wanna be as safe as you possiblycan, but because it's safe, there is
sort of that feeling that I'm invincibleand that's a bad thing to feel.
(31:37):
I think Tom Stout asks any adviceon visiting Lama as a spectator?
I. Go with somebody that knows the ropes.
Take a friend or, or somebodythat's been there before.
It's overwhelming how large it's,unless you know the systems, it's
really difficult to navigate.
There's a lot of differentprogram that have space in
their formula that you go over.
(31:58):
The airlines are.
Paid for the hotel, the food, therestaurants, the tickets for the race,
where you're gonna watch the race from.
Those are really important becausethere is a language barrier.
Unless you know the person that lives inthe United States speaks fluent French.
It can be a real nightmare.
So I'm gonna slide inanother member question here.
(32:18):
Leon Carson writes, and I'm sureyou get this all the time, of all
the tracks you've driven, what trackdo you enjoy driving on the most?
I love Watkins Glen.
Watkins Glen is, you know,that's what was the first
racetrack I ever won a race with.
Peter, Greg, myself, wonthe GT portion in 1969.
I was sitting on cloud nine.
A couple weeks after the race was over,I got my draft notice and I was on an
(32:42):
airplane flying to Vietnam in November.
So that sort of cut myracing career till 1971.
Peter, Greg said, don't worry,you have a job when you get back.
And I rotated outta the army in, in 71and we won the first race at uh, VIR.
So that was great of Peter to be patient.
Watkins Glen, definitely at the topof my list, making my heart smile
(33:03):
there, Hurley, I appreciate that.
Good.
Now that the LAMA Classic isback, any plans to return to Lama?
And if you were gonna go back,would you race any of your previous
cars or maybe something else?
Something you competed against.
I would not want to race the cars.
We have a lot, a lot of cars inour collection here in Jacksonville
at the Burma collection.
(33:24):
We exercise those cars, we demonstratethose cars, but we don't race those cars.
When I hung up my helmet in 2012, I justsaid, you know, competitive racing is
just not in the bucket list at this.
Do you still enjoy watching raceslike Lamont, the 24 hours of Daytona?
Does it still get you, like revvedup like you would wanna be on track?
(33:44):
I'm on the sort of the managementpart of different teams.
They ask my advice and you know, I'mbusy being an an ambassador for Porsche
and being an ambassador for Rolex.
So this last year we had a lot ofRolex people come to the race dealers.
I was with them sort of explaining whatwas going on, and I enjoy doing that.
(34:05):
And you know, the insight that yougive to these customers that are really
not too used to racing is invaluable.
And I think Rolex is thebrand in practically every
major sport in existence.
And Motorsport is very lucky to have themas a sponsor, a supporter quality that.
(34:25):
Is involved in building a watch isthe same as building a race car.
You have to be absolutely 100% precise.
The popularity of LAMA continues togrow, and this year there were some
big announcements As we proceed intothe next couple of seasons, Ford is
coming back, Aston is coming back.
You've got all sorts of other brandscoming to Lamont and talking about coming
(34:46):
to Lamont, and it almost reminds me.
Of the heyday of your time racingat Lamont, where the LMP field was
absolutely huge and the competitionwas strong as it ever was.
So it makes me wonder if you could goback to Lamont today and you could get
behind the wheel of a car, is the obviouschoice the 9 63 or is there something
else that you'd be interested in?
Taking a lap around the track init would be hard to beat the 9 63.
(35:09):
That thing is.
Awesome.
Nick Tandy is a, is a friend, and he saidit's really beautiful to drive that car.
So if I went back to Lamoand if I was gonna drive
something, it would be the 9 63.
No more questions fromthe crowd at this time.
So what I'm gonna do is pass thetorch to David Lowe, A-C-O-U-S-A
President for some parting thoughts.
Harley, on behalf of the a CO anduh, the members of the A-C-O-U-S-A.
(35:34):
Thank you so much for yourtime this evening for an
incredible, incredible interview.
And again, thank you for visitingus at our meetup at Daytona.
It was also a pleasure to meet you there.
All the best.
I enjoyed that.
And, uh, please give mybest to all the a CO people.
Thank you, sir. Yep.
From his three unforgettable winsto the podium finishes that defined
(35:55):
an era, Hurley's legacy withPorsche and with the 24 hours of
Lama is nothing short of legendary.
His determination, skill, and unyieldingspirit have inspired generations of racers
and its clear why he's considered one ofthe all time greats in endurance racing.
Whether you're a Porsche fan, amotorsports enthusiast, or someone
who simply loves a great storyof perseverance, Hurley Haywood's
(36:17):
journey at Lama is one for the ages.
And with that, we hope youenjoyed this presentation and
look forward to more evening witha legend throughout the season.
And on behalf of everyone here andthose listening at home, thank you
Hurley for sharing your stories with us.
Well, thank you Eric.
You did a good job with the questionsand I enjoyed the interview.
I want to have you backfor some Audi talk.
(36:38):
All right.
All right.
This episode has been broughtto you by the Automobile Club
of the West and the A-C-O-U-S-A.
From the awe-inspiring speed demonsthat have graced the track to
(37:00):
the courageous drivers who havepushed the limits of endurance.
The 24 hours of LAMA is an automotivespectacle like no other for over
a century, the 24 hours LAMA hasurged manufacturers to innovate for
the benefit of future motorists.
It's a celebration of the relentlesspursuit of speed and excellence
in the world of motorsports.
To learn more about or to become a memberof the A-C-O-U-S-A look no further than
(37:22):
www laman do org, click on English inthe upper right corner and then click
on the ACO members tab for club offers.
Once you've become a member, you canfollow all the action on the Facebook
group, A-C-O-U-S-A Members Club, andbecome part of the Legend with Future
Evening with the legend meetups.
(37:50):
This episode has been brought to youby Grand Touring Motorsports as part
of our Motoring Podcast network.
For more episodes like this, tune in eachweek for more exciting and educational
content from organizations like TheExotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring
Historian, break Fix, and many others.
If you'd like to support GrandTouring Motorsport and the Motoring
Podcast Network, sign up for oneof our many sponsorship tiers at
(38:12):
www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.
Please note that the content,opinions and materials presented and
expressed in this episode are thoseof its creator, and this episode has
been published with their consent.
If you have any inquiries about thisprogram, please contact the creators
of this episode via email or socialmedia as mentioned in the episode.
Evening With a Legend is a seriesof presentations exclusive to
legends of the famous 24 hoursof Lama giving us an opportunity
to bring a piece of LAMA to you.
By sharing stories and highlightsof the big event, you get a chance
to become part of the Legend ofLama with guests from different
eras of over 100 years of racing.
(00:34):
Tonight we have an opportunity to bringa piece of LAMA to you sharing in the
Legend of Lama with guests from differenteras of over 100 years of racing.
And as your host, I'm delightedto introduce Hurley Haywood,
a name synonymous withendurance racing excellence.
Over the course of 13 attempts atthe legendary 24 hours of Lama Hurley
cemented his legacy as one of thegreatest sports car drivers of all time.
(00:58):
From his debut in 1977 tohis final start in 1994.
Hurley was more than just a driver.
He was a force to be reckoned with,whether battling through the night
or sharing the cockpit with iconslike Jackie Icks and Al Holbert.
His impact on enduranceracing is undeniable.
With three overall victoriesand five podium finishes all
behind the wheel of a Porsche.
(01:18):
His story is one of relentlessdetermination, precision, and
uncanny ability to push bothman and machine to their limits.
We'll break down his lamont'scareer, the highs, the lows, and
what made Hurley Haywood a legendin the world of Lama and beyond.
With that, I'm your host crew chiefEric from the Motoring Podcast Network.
Welcoming everyone to thisevening with a legend.
Hurley, welcome to the show.
(01:39):
Thank you for having me.
You have the most attempts so far of anyguest on an evening with a legend 13 total
three wins, five podiums between 77 and94, and since we can't cover them all,
let's quickly talk about your journey upto Lama and how the deal was put together
and talk about some of the highlights.
Joe Hopin, who was in chargeof both Audi and racing here in
(02:00):
the United States, called me up.
One afternoon and said, howwould you like to go to Lamont?
And I said, fantastic.
You know, sign me up.
He arranged with Portia to haveme drive on the factory team.
Was that the first timeyou had raced in Europe?
Yes, that was the firsttime I'd raced in Europe.
Now you gotta remember.
(02:21):
The only really reference I had toLamar was the movie Lamar, you know,
read about it in, in magazines.
And I never really thought outwhat the city of Lamar was like.
So when I flew over, I flew into CharlesDega, rent a a car, and drove to Lamar.
Well, I was shocked.
(02:41):
Lamont is a huge city, very industrial.
I was completely lost.
I didn't speak very good French.
I was just kind of driving aroundtrying to find something that I could
recognize and nighttime fell and Iwas driving down this little alley.
There was a guy with a Porschejacket on and I said, can you
(03:02):
help me find where Porsche is?
So he looked in thewindow and he says, ah.
He says, here, Haywood, we'vebeen wondering where you are.
And, and it turns out that thisguy was Klaus Bischoff, who
was my crew chief for the car.
And he says, you gotta come intothe bar and meet the guys that
are gonna be working on your cars.
You know, I'd been up for like 36 hours.
So I was kind of a walkingzombie to make it simple.
(03:25):
He said, we're not gonna try to tellyou how to get to your hotel, we'll
take you to the cathedral or the.
Tech inspection was the next day.
You can sleep in the back seatand Porsche guys will find you.
I'll tell 'em that you're there.
So that's exactly what happened.
And that morning there was a loudknock on the windshield and it
happened to be Manford Dianca whowas head of the racing program.
(03:48):
And he said, where?
Where the hell have you been?
So that was my introduction to Porsche.
Nowadays, you know, a newbie hasto go through a whole regimen
of testing, whether it's ona simulator, the rule book.
Lights, you know, differentcaution lights, what that
means to controlled areas.
If there's a incident, they don'tclose the whole track, but they close
(04:11):
the area that where the accident is.
That being said, I really had noidea of what the track looked like.
You know, the practice startsat like six o'clock at night
and runs to about midnight.
They said, okay, now is your turn.
And it was pitch black and they said,we'll send Jackie X out and you can follow
(04:32):
him and he'll show you the way around.
That was two laps and then Iwas on my own, you know, the
average speed at that point.
Was 165 miles an hour.
That's pretty fast.
So there's a lot of very faststraightaways and straight
is over 200 miles an hour.
So I really had my hands full, but it kindof all worked out and the team was really
(04:54):
very gracious and, and very helpful, andthey walked me through the protocols, but.
It was something that I wasabsolutely, completely unprepared for.
What happened after we won the race,I mean, there was tens of thousands of
people just swarmed onto the pit lane,and the next day when I got to the
airport, there was a mob of people there.
(05:16):
So it was sort of surrealin, in its presentation.
It was really shocking, but.
I got used to it and I enjoyed it.
So let's unpack that first race.
One of the questions that came up froma lot of the folks that are sitting
in the audience, they wanted to knowhow it compared to racing at Daytona,
and I know they're really night andday, but endurance racing as a whole.
(05:39):
How was Lama in comparisonto the 24 hours of Daytona?
Well, I'm often asked that question.
Daytona is my home track.
I'm 55 miles away from the speedway from.
The races are so different and youknow, I'm often asked what do I
think is the harder race to win?
And I've always said Daytona was harderbecause one, the nighttime is 12 hours.
(06:03):
They have a vast sort of arena of drivertalent, some very professional guys,
and some real amateur people, so younever know who you're coming up to.
That makes it difficult.
Lamont, they have very strictrules and it's sort of the
caliber of teams and drivers.
At the time I was racing there wasmuch higher than in the United States.
(06:27):
That's has changed dramaticallyover the years and to our present
situation where it's probably equal.
But Lamar is such a iconicrace and personally, I. Racing
at Daytona is more difficult.
I asked Norbert Singer what hethought was more difficult and he
said, well, from a race strategy andfrom what happens in the race car,
(06:51):
I think they're both pretty equal.
What makes IMSA better or Daytonabetter is if you make a mistake,
they bring you into the pits andthey say, don't do that again.
And if you do it again, you'regonna be in serious trouble.
Where at Lamont, it's sometimesseveral minutes of discussion what
you've done and making up thaton a track is difficult to do.
(07:14):
So he said, I thinkLamont is more difficult.
So you got a firstimpression of the track.
You got a first impression of your Porscheteammates and the team, but you made a
first impression on the French as well.
I hear Maybe this is legend, maybethis is a little myth busting here, but
there's a story about a rubber band Rolex.
Roland Putin, who was the presidentof Rolex in the United States, called
(07:36):
me up and said, congratulations.
That was wonderful.
You did a great job over there.
You had your arms raised up inthe air, and I noticed that you
didn't have a have a Rolex on.
I said, well, I didn't take myRolexes over there because I
didn't want to get them stolen.
I didn't, you know, so I wentout and bought a Timex iron man.
(07:56):
He said, okay, that makes sense.
So that next Christmas, Rolex hadinvited me up to New York for a luncheon.
When dessert came, a box came with aRolex in it with a rubber band on it.
And he said, this is the leastflashy watch that we can produce.
(08:17):
Well, in hindsight, it wasprobably the watch that got
the most amount of comments.
'cause where did you get that Rolex?
Where did you get that rubber band?
And so recently I became an an officialambassador of Rolex back in 1991.
It was a handshake.
That was all we needed.
They were completely honestand they were, you know, really
(08:38):
good to me and over the years.
And Luca said, it's time that we signedyou up with a, a bonafide contract.
And I said, that's great.
Contract was one page.
Basically the situation wasthat when you go in public.
Please wear a Rolex.
That was about it.
So they're a great company to work for.
(08:59):
Talking about your 77 season again in thePorsche, 9 36, Harley Clarkson wrote about
his vantage point in competing againstyou with his team, and he said there were
tons of challenges with the car, and yetyou and Jackie and Jurgen Barth still
managed to bring the car home for a win.
So what was that like?
You know, they gave me thehonor of starting the race.
(09:19):
That's a pretty heavy weighton your shoulders when you are
starting a race like that with noexperience as far as the start goes.
So we take off and the throttlesfixed wide open in the first corner.
I managed to get out of theway of everybody get it slowed
down with the throttle stuck.
(09:40):
You couldn't push the clutch down'cause you would over rev the motor.
The first thing that came to mymind, well hit the ignition switch.
Well, I did that and.
I was in the grass and it was hardto sort of bump start the car again.
I had to take off the rear bonnet.
We had actually practiced takingoff the rear bonnet to get to the
engine, which was a mammoth thing.
(10:01):
I mean, probably weighed what that hoodweighed, but I managed to get it off,
found out what the problem was, gotthe throttle fixed, and got back in and
started up and went back to the pits.
I think we lost maybe two orthree laps during that episode.
I went back to the pits.
They fixed it and everything was great.
Jackie's car had a, had a mechanicalproblem and they moved Jackie
(10:23):
over with Jurgen and myself.
And Jackie is a absolute masterat night and in the rain.
'cause it always rains atsome point during that race.
And then when it rains, it doesn'train on the whole track, it
rains in portions on the track.
So Jackie fought during the night.
Jurgen and myself sort of was a backup.
(10:45):
It all kind of worked out.
Porsche really has a, a wonderfulability to put sort of like
personalities together in the car.
We're all secure withbeing racing drivers.
We're not out there to provewho the fastest guy is.
We're there to win the race and everybodydoes the job that they're supposed to do.
And that's been the case onall the cars I've ever driven
(11:07):
for Porsche with teammates.
It just was reallyspecial to win that race.
Well, I'm glad you brought upteammates 'cause we're gonna
jump ahead of here a little bit.
1978 and 82, you podium, you comeback in 1983 for your second win in
the Porsche 9 56 and Mark Hal wrote,what was it like driving with Al
Holbert and Vern Schoen as teammates?
(11:28):
How did your driving styles differ?
How did your strengths work witheach other or against each other?
I knew Al long before we racedtogether at le, and he is a great
driver and a great friend and.
The same feeling for thecars along with Vern.
The three of us together made areally potent team and the, the 9
(11:53):
56 was a difficult car to drive.
The geometry in the car was, youknow, a lot of effort went into the
steering and IMS a would not allowthat car to race in, in the states.
They said, well, you know, you gotta getthe driver's feet behind the front axle
thinking that Porsche would never do that.
Well, that was how the 9 62 was developedand they long gated the wheel base, and
(12:18):
that made all the difference in the world.
That thing was just a sweetheartto drive, and it was kind of
like a driver's dream come true.
It had so much down force thatthe cornering speeds were like.
On a railroad track, so it, itwas really nice to drive that car.
Up until this point, you hadthe chance to race with some of
the best drivers in the world.
As your teammates, can you sharesome memorable experiences with your
(12:40):
teammates that really stand out?
Can't even count how many drivers I'vedriven with, but guys I've driven with
in the long distance races, we allkind of had the same mission motivating
us, and that was to win the race.
We weren't there to set the fastest time.
We were there to do zero mistakes.
Bring the car back in one piece, andwe all kind of contributed to that
(13:02):
thinking, and we would sit down afterour practice sessions and kind of say,
well, you know, what are we gonna do?
We don't wanna get into a wheel towheel fight with somebody, because
that's when mistakes happen.
It was kind of a feeling that we had.
We were not sandbagging, we werenot being easy with the car.
We were being easy with the car, but notto the point of being slow with the car.
(13:26):
That's kind of a very delicatebalance where you're trying
to be really quick, but save.
You know, back then we didn'thave sequential shifting.
We didn't have power steering,we didn't have any of that stuff.
It was all done by the driver and itwas very easy to exhaust yourself.
'cause those cars were pretty hot inside.
We had to be careful with that.
(13:46):
And in a two hour stint, Iwould lose five pounds of sweat.
And getting that liquid back into yoursystem was sometimes a real problem.
One time I brought my doctor over,you know, he said, well, the easy
fix for that is hydration with a iv.
Porsche.
Saw how quickly I recovered with that,and they said, okay, it makes sense.
(14:08):
Now that's not allowed becausepeople are afraid that there'd
be doping stuff in the mixture.
But back then, uh.
It was a very efficient wayto get back up to speed.
Later in the 83 season, you hada pretty bad accident at Mosport,
which kind of took you out of theLama scene for the next couple
years, and that brings us to 1986.
You are in the record books twicein the same year on the same team,
(14:31):
and that's the Silk Cut Jaguars.
How did that happen?
How did that work out that you wererunning two cars over 24 hours?
Tom Walkinshaw decided thatthey wanted to bring some very
experienced drivers in long distance.
So they got Brian Redmondand myself to come.
And before that happened, uh, I had brokenmy leg back in 1983, Bob Tuus called up Al
(14:56):
Holbert and he said, I'm thinking about.
Hiring Hurley because you know, he can'tpush the clutch down on a Porsche, but
we have a gearbox and he only has to pushthe clutch to get in and out of the pits.
Al said to Bob, he said, if youcan hire Hurley, do it today
because he's one of the best.
(15:16):
And that's exactly what happened.
So I raised for the Jaguarteam, the Trulia team group,
44 for two and a half years.
And then when that program stopped andit moved over to Walkinshaw, Walkinshaw
decided that he wanted Brian Redman andmyself to come help his team win the race.
(15:39):
We were told basically tokeep our mouth shut and.
Drive as fast as we could go.
'cause he wanted to be ontelevision at the start of the race.
And so eventually all three carshad mechanical problems and we would
move from one car to the other car.
(15:59):
And so I don't wanna get into theparticular, but it was kind of an amusing
round table of guys that were going fromone car to another car and then that car
would break and move to the third car.
So.
A, uh, difficult situation to be in.
And this was during a timewhen the driver stints weren't
as limited as they are today.
You had minimum driving times, butyou didn't have maximum driving times.
(16:22):
So are you able to jumpbetween the two cars?
Yeah.
Correct.
Correct.
So what was it like driving theJags compared to the Porsches
you had run in the past?
Uh, they're gonna hate me when I saythis, but it really, it was like a truck.
It was very loud, very guttural.
I mean, it was not a difficultcar to drive, but it just,
it was like hot rod City.
(16:44):
You know?
The thing sounded really great.
Definitely almost, and it was sort of notas sophisticated as the group 44 car was.
Group 44 car had that 12 cylinder.
It was a beautiful sounding engine.
Lee Dyer was the one that designed it.
And you know, it was a really nice car.
And then when we, when we went backto back to drive the Walkinshaw car,
(17:06):
it was just dramatically different.
I'm not saying it was worse or better,but it was just very different.
So you've mentioned Bob Tuli inGroup 44 a couple times here,
and that brings us to 1987.
One of my favorite yearsof racing in general.
At the same time that you were stillracing at Lamar doing endurance
racing, you started with Bob and theAudi program in Trans Am bringing
(17:27):
the Quattros to road racing.
So what was it like jumping between theAudis and the nine 60 twos and at that
time did you prefer one over the other?
Well, let me back up a little bit.
When Bob Tulio lost the Jaguar deal, atthe same time Audi was thinking about
coming into race in the United States.
(17:48):
And they wanted to sort ofpromote the Audi program.
And Joe Hopin was of coursethe guy that sort of negotiated
all the rules and everything.
He called me up and he said, well,what do you think we should do?
What team do you think we should get?
And I said, well get Tulio.
He's got all the equipment, he's gotthe shop, he's got the transporters.
(18:08):
They're all spotless.
Totally in that Audisort of way of thinking.
So that's what happened and he gotthe deal and everybody went over to
English Scott to talk about the programand you know, work out the details.
But that was one of the greatest cars.
Everybody laughed, said, what are youdoing with driving to basically sedan.
And they stopped laughing after our firstrace because we were just so superior to
(18:32):
everything else on the, on the racetrack.
And then TransAm kicked us out ofTransAm 'cause the cars were so
good that we moved over to imsa.
The cars were not really made to dolong distance races, so we didn't do
day detail and we didn't do se bbr.
But then, you know, I think shook.
Won almost every race.
And I was second in all those races.
(18:52):
So that thing was unbelievable.
700 horsepower, huge tires onthe front end rear, and it was
really a pretty cool car to drive.
And the reason I bring it up is thatI. That wouldn't be the last time you
drove with Hansuk and Walter Rural.
And if we jump forward a little bitand then we'll do, we will dance back.
You actually ran in 1993 with Hans andWalter at Lamont in a nine 11 turbo.
(19:16):
Was that part of thiswhole group 44 contract?
How did that come to be?
No, it didn't have anything to dowith the contract with Group 44.
It was like a prototype.
Nine 11 that we racedat Daytona and Sebring.
I think it was really fast.
It was really a great car.
And then we were also gonna race that carat Lamont with Stook, myself and Walter.
(19:42):
That was the race, if my memory's correct,was the race that Walter retired after.
You know, so that wasthe end of that program.
That was a really cool car, really fast.
Did you guys choose to drivetogether or was that pre-ordained?
It was pre-ordained.
They wanted an American, which wasme and Walter of course, and Hans.
Were great friends and, andfantastic drivers and very fast.
(20:05):
So we were kicking ass in Daytonaand then we had a, I think Danny
Sullivan drove with us at Daytona.
There was four guys at the,on the team at Daytona.
A mechanical failure.
We were out of the race.
We were leading at the time.
Now, as we jump back into theearly nineties, you've returned
to Lamont many times again behindthe wheel of Porsche nine 60 twos.
(20:26):
And we're gonna talkspecifically about 1994.
That's lucky.
Number 13, your final win at Lamont inLMP one with a 9 62 LM at the age of 46.
Well, you know, the car thatwe ran in 94 was a dower car,
and the dower car was a 9 62.
That was.
(20:46):
Made for the street.
Norbert Singer found a loophole inthe, in the rules that all we had
to do to make that car legal wasto eliminate the ground effects.
And we did a lot oftesting in the wind tunnel.
We did a lot of testing on tracks.
We went to, I think Paul Ricard or MannyCore and did 24 hour test with that car.
So it was a really a, a nice car to drive.
(21:08):
It was very fast on a straightaway 'causeit didn't have a lot of down force.
So that was really cool.
And so we went testing.
I can't remember.
It was, I think it was Manny Corthat we were testing that, and I
was scheduled to drive with Stok andTerry boots, I think, and myself.
And then me, Baldy and Yannick Damo weregonna drive with Danny Sullivan after
(21:32):
the test, Yannick and Marrow went to thefactory and had a seat designed for them.
They were the same size as I was.
So when, uh, Sullivan got to thetrack on race day on race practice,
he couldn't get in their seat.
He was too big.
So they said, oh, we'll fix that.
We'll just move Hurley over andhe can drive with those guys, and
(21:54):
Sullivan can drive with shooken boots.
And so that's how that happened.
And that was literally one of the veryfew races that I've ever had a seat.
That fit me properly.
Usually I was just sort of hanging onbecause the seats were always big and
they would always have to put in a bigclumsy insert, and you've never really
felt comfortable with those cars.
(22:16):
But that time the seat was perfect.
We would do driver changes and wewouldn't have to adjust the belts at all.
So that was really special.
And it showed when we won, Imean, it was really great car.
Did you wanna run again after 94 orwere you after 13 tries you were done.
After 94, Porsche changed overto production cars, GT cars.
(22:38):
I had made a promise to myself becauseof the speed difference between the
prototypes and the GT cars that I wouldnot ever drive a GT car at Lamont.
Different.
I said no.
And Porsche didn't really have aprototype to race except the GT one.
I can't remember what they calledit, but it was a great car.
(22:59):
But I was kind of out of theloop at that point, so I can't
remember even who drove that car.
Well, I'm gonna pull a question fromthe crowd here, and this can apply
to any Porsche you've ever driven.
Scott writes, which Porschevariant was the most fun to drive?
Not necessarily the fastest, butthe one you enjoyed the most?
The 9, 3 6.
That was the car that I wonLamar with the first time.
(23:20):
It had a, a really beautiful engine.
The car was beautiful to look at.
Had the big shovel above your head.
Because it didn't have groundeffects, it moved around a lot.
It's kind like driving areally powerful nine 11.
You could adjust with your throttlewhat the rear of the car was doing,
but not in an uncontrolled manner.
It was just a really pleasant carto drive, and I like open cars.
(23:44):
You talked a little bit aboutthe challenges of driving at LAMA
and weather is something thatcomes up all the time and then
mechanical sympathy is another one.
You know, being cognizant of thecar and the other drivers and you
know, you need to make it to the end.
You can't win LAMA on turn one.
A lot of the legends that comeon the show, we actually talked
to them about how the experienceof LAMA changed them as a driver.
And you mentioned at the beginningof the conversation that LAMA was the
(24:06):
first time you had raced in Europe.
And again, first impressionsor lasting impressions.
So how do you feel that.
Lama change you, maybe your driving style.
What did you bring home fromevery time you raced at lama?
Well, you gotta rememberthat prior to 1977, I had won
three Daytona 24 hour races.
So the 24 hour format was notsomething that was alien to me.
(24:29):
The same principles that hold truefor being successful at Daytona hold
true for being successful at Lamont.
So my driving style, the wayI thought, the way I trained
didn't really change that much.
The only thing that reallychanged was we had great food, so.
So when you look at Lama's changes andits evolution, you started in the pre
(24:52):
chicane days, and then in 1990 through1994, you drove in the new format.
How was that for you?
Did you have to really relearn thetrack or was it always about the same?
The speed difference between No, chicanesand the Chicanes was almost the same.
It was well over 200 miles an hourbetween the chicanes, but because of
(25:13):
the chicanes, the physical exertion.
Of those two entities was pretty severe.
The breaking was massive.
You really had to come in on thebrakes, and I think that that was
in itself something that really.
Took a toll on drivers and cars.
I much preferred the no chicanes, butthe tire manufacturers just were not
(25:38):
comfortable with that sustained speedwith their product, and I think that
they were pretty instrumental in gettingthe track to put the chicanes in.
Same thing at Daytona with the bus stop atDaytona would enter turn three at over 200
miles an hour on the banking with a lot ofdownforce and a lot of force on the tires.
So they went to the speedway and said, weneed to put a chicane in there to slow the
(26:01):
cars down on the entries into UH, three.
So that I think worked well forthem as one of the most successful
American drivers at lama.
What do you think LAMA means formotorsport in the United States, and
as LAMA has evolved, how do you feelabout the global recognition of lama?
Well, I think cars now, both on theUS side and on the European side.
(26:24):
Are very similar to each other.
They have a little bit different rulepackage, but I think the end result
is really good for racing becausein my day we would win these long
distance races by lapse by miles.
And now at Daytona and at Lamar,you have multiple cars that are
(26:44):
on the same lap after 24 hours.
So I think that that issomething that's good.
I. To be dominant.
I like to win those races by largemargins, but I think from the fan
standpoint, it's better that youhave multiple cars on the same lap
in both prototype and in gt, andthat just makes for a good show.
(27:05):
So there's a lot of young drivers thatare coming up through the system now that
have LAMA as one of their crown jewels.
And so looking back over all your entriesat LAMA and even over your career, what
advice would you give to young aspiringdrivers who dream of competing at the
24 and following in your footsteps?
I think this new generationof drivers is amazing.
(27:27):
Their maturity behind the wheel, howthey deal with all the pressures are.
Mind-boggling really.
I, you know, I looked at kindof what I was like in that era.
It's just a completely differentmindset of these young kids,
and they're super fast.
They don't make mistakes.
They understand theengineering of the cars.
Peter, Greg once told me, he said, youknow, you, you are hired as a driver.
(27:51):
Don't try to be an engineer.
Articulate what the car is doing.
And then let the engineersfigure out what to do.
And I think that that is thecase on many of the young drivers
that are in the sport right now.
They're very articulate.
They know what they're doing, andthey're only gonna get better with time.
So I think the future of racing, thenext generation of superstars is gonna
(28:14):
come from the current crop, both theEuropean and on the American side.
So having returned to Lama manytimes, you've seen a lot of change,
as we talked about with the changeof the course configuration itself.
What are some of the best newthings that had come to Lamas
since you had started there?
In 77, the pits were like, you wouldmake a pit stop and there would be.
Literally hundreds of people that youwould have to dodge through to get into
(28:37):
your pit slot to make the pit stop.
It was just so overwhelming with the crowdof people that was allowed into the pits.
So that's when they built the newpits and the new boxes above the pits.
That was really special and thatmade it much, much safer and.
Much more enjoyable.
We got a couple of crowd questions here.
Terry Johnson writes, with all themodern day advancement in telemetry
(29:00):
communication and all the cockpitgadgets for the driver, do you see your
era as more pure in terms of racing?
Absolutely.
You know, I'm not a big fan ofelectronics controlling the cars.
I like to be in control ofwhat is going on with the car.
And if I want something, you know,I'll radio into the pits and I'll
say, okay, the car's understeering.
(29:21):
What are gonna do?
Now all of that is alreadyknown with telemetry.
They're not necessarily relyingon what the driver says.
They know what, what he's gonna say.
We didn't have sequential shifting.
We didn't have a BS brakes, wedidn't have power steering, we
didn't have air conditioned cockpits.
I'm not saying it's any easier now.
(29:42):
I think with the introduction of all thecommands from the pits to the drivers
on what to do to save energy, theformula for fuel usage and electricity
has to be dissipated at the same time.
So if you come into thepits and they see that.
The battery's been zero.
You're penalized.
That's why it's so importantto listen to the engineers.
(30:05):
They're telling you you're using toomuch fuel, you're using too much battery.
Dial back a little bit.
It's a constant thing, so it'snot just one lap to doing to
do it in almost every lap.
So I don't think I could drivea race car with having somebody
talking to me all the time.
So along with that, Greg Carusowrites, what's the biggest difference
you see in today's endurance racingcompared to when you were racing?
(30:26):
Is it safety?
Is it something you alreadymentioned, or is it something else?
It's all of those things.
Because the cars are so strong andso safe, it sort of gives the drivers
this secure feeling that if somethinggoes wrong, I'm not gonna hurt myself.
In my generation, people got hurt in racecars, people got killed in race cars.
I think that that tempered theway we looked at things and how we
(30:51):
analyze what kind of risks are wegonna take Now in a 24 hour race,
it's 24 segments of 100% performance.
And there's no regard forbeing careful with the car.
You can throw it around, you canbump into somebody and you're
not gonna damage the body work.
They're very strong cars and thesafety equipment is phenomenal.
(31:13):
Helmet technology and race suittechnology is, is really good.
Bladder control on the fueltanks is good, so it is a much
secure and safer environment.
And that makes theracing better and safer.
You wanna be as safe as you possiblycan, but because it's safe, there is
sort of that feeling that I'm invincibleand that's a bad thing to feel.
(31:37):
I think Tom Stout asks any adviceon visiting Lama as a spectator?
I. Go with somebody that knows the ropes.
Take a friend or, or somebodythat's been there before.
It's overwhelming how large it's,unless you know the systems, it's
really difficult to navigate.
There's a lot of differentprogram that have space in
their formula that you go over.
(31:58):
The airlines are.
Paid for the hotel, the food, therestaurants, the tickets for the race,
where you're gonna watch the race from.
Those are really important becausethere is a language barrier.
Unless you know the person that lives inthe United States speaks fluent French.
It can be a real nightmare.
So I'm gonna slide inanother member question here.
(32:18):
Leon Carson writes, and I'm sureyou get this all the time, of all
the tracks you've driven, what trackdo you enjoy driving on the most?
I love Watkins Glen.
Watkins Glen is, you know,that's what was the first
racetrack I ever won a race with.
Peter, Greg, myself, wonthe GT portion in 1969.
I was sitting on cloud nine.
A couple weeks after the race was over,I got my draft notice and I was on an
(32:42):
airplane flying to Vietnam in November.
So that sort of cut myracing career till 1971.
Peter, Greg said, don't worry,you have a job when you get back.
And I rotated outta the army in, in 71and we won the first race at uh, VIR.
So that was great of Peter to be patient.
Watkins Glen, definitely at the topof my list, making my heart smile
(33:03):
there, Hurley, I appreciate that.
Good.
Now that the LAMA Classic isback, any plans to return to Lama?
And if you were gonna go back,would you race any of your previous
cars or maybe something else?
Something you competed against.
I would not want to race the cars.
We have a lot, a lot of cars inour collection here in Jacksonville
at the Burma collection.
(33:24):
We exercise those cars, we demonstratethose cars, but we don't race those cars.
When I hung up my helmet in 2012, I justsaid, you know, competitive racing is
just not in the bucket list at this.
Do you still enjoy watching raceslike Lamont, the 24 hours of Daytona?
Does it still get you, like revvedup like you would wanna be on track?
(33:44):
I'm on the sort of the managementpart of different teams.
They ask my advice and you know, I'mbusy being an an ambassador for Porsche
and being an ambassador for Rolex.
So this last year we had a lot ofRolex people come to the race dealers.
I was with them sort of explaining whatwas going on, and I enjoy doing that.
(34:05):
And you know, the insight that yougive to these customers that are really
not too used to racing is invaluable.
And I think Rolex is thebrand in practically every
major sport in existence.
And Motorsport is very lucky to have themas a sponsor, a supporter quality that.
(34:25):
Is involved in building a watch isthe same as building a race car.
You have to be absolutely 100% precise.
The popularity of LAMA continues togrow, and this year there were some
big announcements As we proceed intothe next couple of seasons, Ford is
coming back, Aston is coming back.
You've got all sorts of other brandscoming to Lamont and talking about coming
(34:46):
to Lamont, and it almost reminds me.
Of the heyday of your time racingat Lamont, where the LMP field was
absolutely huge and the competitionwas strong as it ever was.
So it makes me wonder if you could goback to Lamont today and you could get
behind the wheel of a car, is the obviouschoice the 9 63 or is there something
else that you'd be interested in?
Taking a lap around the track init would be hard to beat the 9 63.
(35:09):
That thing is.
Awesome.
Nick Tandy is a, is a friend, and he saidit's really beautiful to drive that car.
So if I went back to Lamoand if I was gonna drive
something, it would be the 9 63.
No more questions fromthe crowd at this time.
So what I'm gonna do is pass thetorch to David Lowe, A-C-O-U-S-A
President for some parting thoughts.
Harley, on behalf of the a CO anduh, the members of the A-C-O-U-S-A.
(35:34):
Thank you so much for yourtime this evening for an
incredible, incredible interview.
And again, thank you for visitingus at our meetup at Daytona.
It was also a pleasure to meet you there.
All the best.
I enjoyed that.
And, uh, please give mybest to all the a CO people.
Thank you, sir. Yep.
From his three unforgettable winsto the podium finishes that defined
(35:55):
an era, Hurley's legacy withPorsche and with the 24 hours of
Lama is nothing short of legendary.
His determination, skill, and unyieldingspirit have inspired generations of racers
and its clear why he's considered one ofthe all time greats in endurance racing.
Whether you're a Porsche fan, amotorsports enthusiast, or someone
who simply loves a great storyof perseverance, Hurley Haywood's
(36:17):
journey at Lama is one for the ages.
And with that, we hope youenjoyed this presentation and
look forward to more evening witha legend throughout the season.
And on behalf of everyone here andthose listening at home, thank you
Hurley for sharing your stories with us.
Well, thank you Eric.
You did a good job with the questionsand I enjoyed the interview.
I want to have you backfor some Audi talk.
(36:38):
All right.
All right.
This episode has been broughtto you by the Automobile Club
of the West and the A-C-O-U-S-A.
From the awe-inspiring speed demonsthat have graced the track to
(37:00):
the courageous drivers who havepushed the limits of endurance.
The 24 hours of LAMA is an automotivespectacle like no other for over
a century, the 24 hours LAMA hasurged manufacturers to innovate for
the benefit of future motorists.
It's a celebration of the relentlesspursuit of speed and excellence
in the world of motorsports.
To learn more about or to become a memberof the A-C-O-U-S-A look no further than
(37:22):
www laman do org, click on English inthe upper right corner and then click
on the ACO members tab for club offers.
Once you've become a member, you canfollow all the action on the Facebook
group, A-C-O-U-S-A Members Club, andbecome part of the Legend with Future
Evening with the legend meetups.
(37:50):
This episode has been brought to youby Grand Touring Motorsports as part
of our Motoring Podcast network.
For more episodes like this, tune in eachweek for more exciting and educational
content from organizations like TheExotic Car Marketplace, the Motoring
Historian, break Fix, and many others.
If you'd like to support GrandTouring Motorsport and the Motoring
Podcast Network, sign up for oneof our many sponsorship tiers at
(38:12):
www.patreon.com/gt Motorsports.
Please note that the content,opinions and materials presented and
expressed in this episode are thoseof its creator, and this episode has
been published with their consent.
If you have any inquiries about thisprogram, please contact the creators
of this episode via email or socialmedia as mentioned in the episode.
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