November 29, 2024 • 29 mins
Can a simple drawing change the course of your life? Journey with us as we explore the artistic legacies passed down through generations, beginning with my mom's inspiring yet bittersweet tale of artistic talent that almost was. Despite a protective grandfather who halted her dreams of attending art school, my mom's story is one of resilience and imagination. This episode offers a touching tribute to her unrecognized talent and the missed opportunities that marked her artistic journey.
I invite you to reminisce with me about my own path—a tale woven with crayons on scraps of paper and ambitious high school projects like a stop-motion Beatles animation. Experience the struggles and triumphs of creating art with limited resources and without formal references, a testament to a passion ignited in childhood that continues to burn brightly. Listen as we delve into my artistic expressions, from sketching children and historical figures to a love for realism over abstract, each piece a reflection of emotion and personal connection.
In a heartwarming conversation with my mom, we celebrate the essence of family love and legacy. Her unwavering belief that her greatest achievement is being a good mom and grandma resonates deeply, as we share laughter and gratitude for her sacrifices that paved the way for our successes. This episode is more than an exploration of art—it's a celebration of creativity's many forms, the bonds that inspire it, and the enduring impact of familial support in nurturing artistic talents across generations.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
this is brutally made .
Mom, this is my podcast.
You're not doing me no.
I just want to talk about someof the things you told me when
you were younger with art,because I love knowing what you
did when you were, um, all thestories that you've told me
about art and what you enjoyeddoing, and some of the stories
(00:30):
how you almost did more with artthan what you have done in your
life, because right now you arewhat?
74, yep, yeah, and I'm 54, andso it's 20 years apart from us
and there's 20 years apart fromRiley and the girls and stuff.
So I love the story that youtold me when you were really
young and you used to do thedrawings that were in like the
(00:55):
TV guide, and it was a turtleand the pirate and I think there
was a hair and it was like drawlike this and it was for the
art institutes, right, yeah, andso what did you draw and submit
?
I think it's a pirate, okay,and the head of a pirate or
something.
And I won and they came to ourhouse and they wanted me to go
(01:21):
to some school and I was young,yeah, yeah, and my dad wasn't
having any of that because he sohe actually talked to a guy
that came to the house.
He was down to the barn wheredad was working on his tractor,
yeah, and he came up in a realfancy car and had a uh like a
(01:43):
long, uh man coat, a trench coat, yeah, and he was out there
talking to my dad because I hadto ask him who he was.
And he was talking for a longtime and he left.
And when the king dad came tothe house he does it.
Mom said who was she talking to?
And dad said some man.
(02:06):
You remember I would alwaysdraw on everything in the house.
Yeah, and uh, he he told momwho it was and everything and he
gave me this paper.
I don't know what I did with itback then, but I don't.
I.
I was like, um, let's see, Isay I was probably about 15
(02:26):
years old, okay, and anyway, hetold him no, my daughter's not
going anywhere.
So they wanted you to go to artschool, yeah, yeah, and because
he wouldn't, so you mailed thaton your own.
Yeah, you mailed that in, yeah,and I won, because my mom and
(02:50):
dad was very, very protective ofus kids.
This is really funny that theywent back then and they like
what's your house?
They would find you.
Yeah, but anyway, he couldn'tbelieve I was the age I was to
draw, that it doesn't matter theage you are when you draw.
But then I would draw stuff atschool.
(03:13):
People usually had to look atsomething to draw it.
And my art teacher, mr Goodman,and his wife, she was a home ec
teacher at school.
Yeah, at that time, anyway, hesays I'm going to say one word
(03:35):
and I want you to draw a pictureof it.
Yeah, and everybody goes.
Ha.
He said fear, everybody's going.
Ha, ha, in their class.
Yeah, they're out of fitbecause they didn't know how to
do that.
So he said fear, everybody'sgoing, you know, in class.
Yeah, they're on a fit becausethey didn't know how to do that.
So he said fear, I hadn't donelike a minute less, yeah.
And he says this is what I'mtalking about.
(03:57):
Oh, he picked up your piece.
Yes, and I thought, oh, they'reall going to get mad at me now.
And anyway, I sat there and Ihad drawn a stair, steps shallow
in underneath the stairs with alittle girl all afraid, oh,
hiding.
Yeah, she had fear on the faceand I don't want any girl that I
(04:21):
don't.
But to me that would be fear,yeah, and so I'm afraid
someone's going to comedownstairs and get her or
something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the kids all go you'rekidding.
And he said this is what I want.
He said, they said we don'thave nothing to look at.
They wanted a reference.
(04:46):
And you didn't need a reference, I just needed the word.
And uh, anyway, this is what wedid.
And then his wife and him wasfrom pennsylvania and they
wanted me to go to school there.
Yeah, because pittsburgh andpennsylvania has a really good
art school.
Well, that's where they werefrom.
Yeah, and uh, I say my mom anddad would let me do that.
Yeah, then we had this ladycome over to our school and she
(05:10):
wanted to do her master's mathand I did her master's.
So what do you mean?
You did?
You worked with her for hermaster's.
She didn't work.
I did the work and you drew herwork for her.
Oh, I drew the beatles.
Oh, paul, george and john andlingo, and this came out of my
(05:36):
head, yeah, and then they wereand every, and we she had a
camera and we used it.
The girls that worked with meas far as like with a camera.
Yeah, they took the clips and Iwould have these beetles move
and it's like the plan.
Oh so, stop motion animation,uh-huh, clip clip.
(05:58):
So you were, you, in high schoolwhen this happened.
Oh yeah, I was, uh, sophomore,oh my gosh.
And anyway, flip, flip, flip.
And then it gets even better.
I had a water that moved underthe beatles feet as they played,
oh my goodness.
And they moved.
You came up with all that.
(06:19):
And then at the end well, thatwould have been the same time
that the art person came to thehouse, because 15 is like
sophomore year in high school,anyway, I am.
Anyway, at the end of it shewas getting her master's and uh,
and at the end of it it wasback in the you know, 60, yeah,
(06:40):
yeah.
And so at the end of thebeatles thing, they went, kept
on going and I had this biglittle mushroom with this little
elf underneath the thing at thevery end and it looked like it
all blew up.
Oh, everything was moving.
(07:01):
That's really cool, gosh.
I wish I knew where that was.
Well, she had it.
Do you remember her name?
I didn't even know her name.
I don't think they might havetold me back then.
Yeah and uh, that's really sowe did that.
Then I did a lot of murals forpeople, yeah, in these houses in
macarthur.
Yeah, I remember you paintingmurals in people's houses.
(07:23):
Let's go back way back when youwere little.
Like what's the first time youremember drawing anything?
How old were you all the time?
I can't remember when I firststarted.
It was a very, very little then.
And then, just like I told you,when Hannah Ava came over, she
didn't.
Yeah, but I'm talking about you.
Oh, I mean, I know thegrandchildren, I know that, but
(07:43):
I'm talking about when youremember.
Oh, when you were little, Iwould draw on every piece of
paper I could find in the house,on the back of it.
If you had a plane, was italways pencils?
Pencils?
Yeah, yeah, and um, do youremember the first time you got
crayons or paint?
I had crayons, but I didn'tlike them because I couldn't
shadow that good with crayons.
(08:04):
Oh, and I didn't like to be.
If I made a mistake on a picture, you want to be able to erase
it.
No, I just fixed it.
Oh, I never knew that.
Okay, I just fixed it, becauseif you draw with something like
that, you can't um, I don't know.
I just fixed it okay, and so,um, I like to do the fast draw.
(08:28):
Yeah, what's your favorite thingto draw?
I think I know what you like,but I want to hear what you
think you like to draw.
I would draw pictures that Ithought Jesus looked like.
Yeah, I, I would think.
I would think that I wouldthink people are your favorite
thing to draw.
Yeah, people are my favorite.
I can draw animals and just likethe and just what's important
(08:56):
to you, right, right, it's likewhen I told ava, I'm, I'm, I'm
not, and let's tell anybody.
I told her she was havingproblems drawing.
She says teacher, school wantsher to look at something and
draw that.
I said, well, that's nice andgood.
But I said I'm going to giveyou, um, something that I have,
(09:17):
and and she says what she said.
I said I'm going to give youone word and I want you to draw
it.
What you feel that word lookslike to you.
I said love.
She looked at me, this littlekid who drew the heart.
Ava drew her drawings werepretty bad at that time and she
(09:38):
drew a flat envelope with a loveletter in it and it shall shade
it in.
And I had family and I drawed atree and I and I wrote then I
had this cemetery with atombstone but I had this family
(10:00):
tree and had everybody's on thistree, on the kids and all and
on the tree it says tw plus lwthat's me and your grandpa and
um, and it's a cemetery and Ihad her little things out there,
like it was an old one, andtombstones and I said this is
(10:25):
out of two people, this is whatgod gave us all these people on
this tree.
Yeah, and that was love.
Yeah, and she loved it.
Yeah, that was good that youhad to draw together like that.
And I said, uh, you don't haveto.
I said, if you just use your,you can you see anything in your
(10:47):
mind, and that's a real gift.
That's really difficult for alot of people to look at
something in their head and tohave it come out in their hand.
I um been able to do that sinceI was very little.
Yeah, that's, that's verytalented mom.
So you never went to collegefull-time.
I do remember when you went tocollege, I had to take him with
(11:11):
me, right one class and you hada baby and went to school with
me.
Yeah, you, you took him, but Ididn't like that class you had
art history.
No, it was art expression.
Uh-huh and um, wasn't there afamous artist coming to the
school, andy warhol?
Yeah, I remember you telling meabout this and tell me about
(11:31):
that whole thing.
And I didn't go, I know,because you were like I don't
like him, I didn't like hisstyle, what on earth, mom?
I didn't like it because hetook people and just copied
their faces, lots of them, andjust made them in different
(11:53):
colors, like famous people, likewillman, right, right, right,
and he had all different colors,iconic artist.
You're like, I didn't go, Ididn't like him.
I remember you telling me that.
So you had that class, artisticexpression.
Yes, and uh, andy warhol, andhe was there, they brought him
(12:15):
to OU, yep, yep, and I didn't go.
Oh my, but I had a kid, I know,I know.
But did you like theassignments for class?
Yes, I did real well, it wasmore art expression and it was
more abstract.
I don't like abstract.
(12:37):
You did, I know you don't, andso I liked it.
Okay, but I really think thatprofessor, he was funny.
This guy asked a question, hewent on and on about his student
in the class and the guy downthere, the old professor.
(12:57):
He stood there, listening,listening, listening, and
finally he said the guy downthere, the old professor who
stood there, listen, listen,listen.
And finally he said the guy,quit, talk.
Uh-huh.
He says I'm absolutely how hesaid it.
Uh, like he was dumber, he did,uh, expression art, abstract
art and people walking aroundwith lights on their heads and
(13:19):
all this.
Yeah, I didn't like that.
Uh, I didn't come there to dothat.
I come there to want to moreabout how could I know how to do
more out of what I got?
You mean, you wanted to learnhow to do more out of what I got
.
You wanted to learn how to domore realism.
(13:41):
You like realistic drawing.
I can remember whenever youwould try to challenge me.
Drawing is that if it looks justlike it does in real life.
That's when you thought it wasright.
That's when people, I thought,don't have to guess at what
you're doing.
They see it.
I don't have to guess at whatyou're doing.
Yeah, you see it.
I don't like to guess stuff andI like it to be seen, and so
(14:06):
you don't want somebody tointerpret the, the work into a
different way.
You want it to be.
This is exactly what I meant Iwant to be.
When you see somebody, thatthat person and or you see, um,
anything like that, like peopledraw still life, like fruit or
something.
Yeah, I didn't care about thateither.
I don't like you still like,because you probably didn't have
(14:27):
an emotional like connectionwith it.
You're like art to you, thevery emotional, connecting.
Yes, I love to draw children.
I, I love to draw little kids,I love to draw old time people,
angels.
I love drawing angels andthings like that.
I've never seen a real angel,but I just got in my mind what
they should look like.
(14:49):
And so when you got to do thesemurals for people and they gave
you a subject that they wantedto do, was that frustrating for
you because you were drawingwhat they wanted rather than
what you wanted?
No, it was.
It was real life, like the bankgave me.
Uh, they didn't tell me what topaint, right, they wanted me to
do something for a BentonCounty bat wall and it was a
(15:10):
huge wall.
It was the length it's oh, itwas 30 feet.
Yeah, yeah, and your dad builtme a scaffold.
That was fun.
The climate yeah, this is a manwho hated heights.
Yeah, they built a homemadescaffolds for you to climb and
use.
And anyway, I got on myscaffold and I covered that
whole back.
(15:30):
Yeah, and I want to.
I'm going to emphasize you didnot grid this out.
No, I didn't use, it was allfreehand, the entire entire wall
.
That was like 30 feet high byjust as long.
It was huge, as high as thiswall.
Yeah, it was huge, it was big.
And then you got up on thatscaffold.
You painted everything by handof this entire country scene
(15:54):
with trains.
Well, I started out in thewoods.
I did these trees and in thetrees I had beers.
Yeah, I know I gave you asketch.
Yeah, you, I knew you sketchedit out.
But it's not like right now, alot of people will doodle on the
wall and then they'll map outexactly where everything goes.
No, you didn't do any of that.
No, I just I didn't even go bythe sketch I gave him.
(16:18):
Yeah, you just kept addingthings and making things up.
I had the trees and I had theleaves and everything, and it
was kind of going down this way,because the wall was kind of
that way, and so I got down toit's really pretty.
The deers were in the woods andthey was looking out, they look
real, yeah, and the grass andeverything, everything looked
(16:41):
real.
And then I got down where Iwanted to put a, a creek bed,
yeah, and I draw two little boyswith overhauls on.
One had a hat on the back andsaid they were fishing and I had
to make my water look like itwas moving.
And so I did, yeah, and youcould see down through.
(17:02):
You see shadows, yeah, and overtop the water I put a bridge,
uh huh, I remember that, and thebridge where we had bitton
County had the bridges, yeah.
And the guy at the bank, he hada thing, oh, a train, yep,
(17:24):
there's a train, it called itsomething in town, and this
train was how to track, causeyou have a mountain up there
with good winter over top thatbridge and this kind of tracking
that.
And that train was, but gothrough the track.
I mean the bridge, yeah, yeah.
(17:45):
And so it wasn't car bridge, itwas a train bridge, yeah, and
uh, then the woods up there.
But the funnest thing I thoughtwas making the water look like
it was and you could see downthrough the water, yeah, the
shadows, yeah.
And I said I, if I was going todo something, I wanted to look
real, look real, right, and itis really pretty.
(18:09):
I know I have asked the bankfor years if anyone had pictures
of this.
The lady that had this, bobWill, had the sketches, yeah,
and he died, yeah, and his wifedied.
So I don't know, he probably,but the sketches yeah, but I
know it was in the paper andI've always asked people that
worked at the paper and the bankalways wanted to see if
(18:31):
somebody had pictures.
I thought Martha Smith had tooka picture of that, but she came
up and watched people come upand watch me, which I didn't
like.
You don't like people watchingyour work, do you?
No, no, no, I'm busy and I'mvery fast, yeah, and I just
don't want to stop and talk.
I don't want to stop and talkand so I want to get it done
because I had you know I, youwas probably aunt ruby's house
(18:54):
while I was there.
The ruby come up, yeah, Iremember, I remember you doing
it.
It was really cool, and thenthey built picnic tables and
they walled it off so nobodywould vandalize it.
Then he said, linda I.
He said would you want to putsomething over that?
I said you made me paint thaton, that paint you had on there
(19:14):
and I said I hope it don't peel.
That's why I told him and Isaid you wouldn't going to
repaint right that and uh, soanyway, he, he, they built onto
the yeah, and that's whathappened and it's really cool
that you did that.
I remember you doing that.
I remember you painting inpeople's houses.
Oh, I did a lot of murals forpeople's houses.
(19:36):
Now I do remember you startinga mural in our house and you
didn't like it.
You were very frustrated.
We ended up mirroring theentire wall.
I got really good, I got tired,I didn't like.
I remember.
I remember I remember the, thewater in the middle and the tree
and you started in the centerand you didn't like it.
You got so frustrated because Iended up putting mirrors on the
(19:56):
wall.
I, when I didn't like something, I didn't like it and I
wouldn't go to make make anymore time on it.
Then I had to.
Yeah, because I don't like togo.
I don't like to do somethingthat takes me a long time.
Yeah, you're very impatient.
The other thing that I think isreally cool is that in your
(20:18):
lifetime, even though you neverreally focused on art like that
with studies, you went into aculinary field.
You started working at OU inthe dining halls.
They found that you werecreative.
You started making sculpturesout of food.
I would make yes, I make allthe usual.
(20:41):
People always made tomato roses, yeah, people always made
tomato roses, yeah.
But I found that I can make, uh, orange peel.
Take the orange peel off theorange and then the white skin
on this.
Done, I would make roses andflowers out of that and then dye
(21:02):
is really pretty, oh, yeah, youwould use the fruit or the dye
and I would cut that and I takeit out and then it would uh
actually forget any color youwanted, yeah, out of that.
And you get to the point wherethey wanted you to teach that
and you were like no, no, youcan't.
(21:22):
I couldn't teach that, Iwouldn't.
I tried to show people work howto do it and it was that would
help.
You tell me, yeah, I said, canyou just carve it?
Yeah, no, it's just funny howyou knew how to do that out of
no instruction, you just cameout.
I could do that tomato, umroses, or I could do tomato
(21:45):
sculptures.
You did mountains, you did palmtrees, you did stuff out of
pineapple and you did this forthe President's Center.
Yes, I did.
One time I did all this stuff Alot.
I don't know what that dinnerwas.
We had a lot of people there.
It was on the old side, whichwas all fancy, and the cafeteria
(22:05):
which we came through, anyway,the old side, which was all
fancy, yeah, and the cafeteriawhich we came through, anyway,
the old side, and they had thefood.
People from, uh, where theywanted me that time they went to
chicago and I didn't go there.
I know, I know you wouldn'ttravel and anyway, uh, these
(22:26):
people that came.
Oh, I know what I did, but I hada bank thing.
This is another one.
I had a bank, big bank dinnerfor all the banks and I made a
cheese ball which was a cheesedollar, yeah, out of vegetables
and stuff like that, it's like athing.
(22:47):
But the cheese part looked likea dollar bill and it had green
yeah on it, yeah, and it lookedjust like a dollar bill and they
wanted to know who did that.
And then we had a columnarycompany come in, yeah, and they
wanted to know who did thosetrees for this dinner and I had
(23:10):
all kinds of vegetables aroundthe palm tree, yeah, and I
covered the yeah, start themwith um, wasn't it pineapple,
pineapple wine, and looked likea palm tree and the top I put,
um, they had these.
(23:31):
I don't forget it was like itwas eatable things flying out
like the, probably like aparsley stems and stuff.
Oh, it was bigger than that.
Okay, anyway, I had that.
And then at the bottom it saidon a piece of great big plastic
and then I sectioned the food onevery one of them.
I thought that was pretty cool.
Huh, they never seen thingslike it.
(23:52):
Because I made it up, yeah, andI had the maintenance guys make
me the styrofoam.
Yeah, you would tell them formsyou needed.
Yeah, and they cut me out allkinds of stuff.
Like we had a Texas dinner onetime and they made me all kinds
of cactus.
I painted them, they made them.
Then one year we had Halloweenand in the Jefferson's dining
(24:19):
hall, everywhere I went, thekids were following me, the
students, okay.
And this year I went outsidethis is where I'm working and I
went outside and I painted thisplastic tablecloth orange like a
squire and I put that on thatbig it was a little, it's a good
(24:44):
size wagon we had in that onionhole, yeah, and I put a
skeleton.
I made a skeleton and put thatskeleton in the front of that
setting in the wagon and I put,I put a light inside of the
light inside of the uh, coveredwagon, yeah, so it was on fire.
(25:07):
It was on fire and I had a fan,oh, and so the orange thing,
the orange tablecloth, I meanthe tablecloth, yeah.
Then one time I turned off thewagon into a circus wagon and I
put a I draw a lion on a greatthing.
(25:28):
They put that on it and uh, itwas really funny because I, I,
it was a lion, it was in a cage,that's cool.
And uh, just a picture lookedjust like a wagon.
You see some circus, and theydidn't pay you extra for any of
this, but they would like giveyou cameras and stuff and you're
like I don't know how to usethis and anyway, on the bottom
(25:52):
of it, that's how mean I am I, Imeryl, my buddy, yeah, I love
meryl, meryl, lion famous.
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.
You named your lion meryl.
Yeah, he goes.
You just so mean to me and Idon't shed it now.
Oh, my goodness, that's sofunny that we had a lot of fun.
(26:14):
I had a lot of fun at work.
I got along.
I love the people I know I'veso set my left because I had to
retire.
Yeah, you'd had you need.
You deserve to retire, mom,you've had a lot of work because
I was cooking plus doing that.
Yeah, yeah, I know I never tooka break.
I like break time.
This when I did my artwork yeah,you draw napkins and people
(26:35):
would want to keep them.
Yeah, I gave them away toeverybody.
And the young kids come by andsay, did you just draw that?
And I go, yeah, I said you canhave it, can I have that?
Oh, and I thought, yeah, Ialways did that.
I like the kids.
Yeah, I know you're a goodgrandma too.
Yeah, but well, I just wantedto like kind of capture these
(26:59):
stories that you have told meover the years because I just
thought they were so cute and Iwish you would still draw.
I think I know your hand.
You have arthritis from all theyears of working.
I know your poor little handsand I think it would be good
therapy for you to do that.
But I know arthritis.
I still can draw.
Yeah, I got this.
(27:21):
This is what I draw with.
Yeah, they used to crookedestones.
See, this one's bent this way,yeah, and my hands?
I, you know I've worked all mylife.
I know Working and I know I wasraised as farm girl.
I know you were, I know youwere, you're very talented.
Oh, I don't know about that.
You are, you are.
(27:43):
I don't feel I'm talented, Ionly think I feel like I, if I
ever accomplish anything in life, it would be that I was a good
mom, yeah, and a good grandma,yeah.
Yeah, that's what I want.
Well, you definitely did that.
That's it, I know, because Ithink you get one shot in life
(28:09):
and you should be happy.
What you do, yeah, you should,and a lot of people aren't they
always searching something tomake them happy.
I know, and I never had to dothat and I could say I had a
very blessed life.
Yeah Well, I'm blessed thatyou're my mom, I'm blessed that
(28:30):
you're my daughter, even thoughshe's mean.
I'm mean, yeah, I'm spoiled.
That's what dad always calledher.
Spoiled Because I was the onlygirl.
Yes, you was, I know, I'm verymuch like that.
And your brothers, my brothers,could do no wrong, but I, your
brothers, did plenty, yeah, buty'all went to college and you
(28:54):
all went to school and we didbecause of you.
I worked at au and I got yourschool for it, yeah, I know.
And then we love you for it,but I do it all over again for
my grandkids, like I know youwould.
You were here for them, thoughyou still are, so.
So my grandchildren and mychildren and all your, all my
(29:15):
family I got a son-in-lawsitting over there.
I can't you don't hear me.
He hears you.
He loves you.
Well, I love you and I justwanted to get this out there in
the world because I love yourstories.
I thought they were so cool.
Are you putting this out there?
I am.
I thought you just saved it foryourself.
No, this is it.
You won't be on video.
It'll be audio.
Oh, they won't be able to seemy pretty hair, maybe for a
(29:38):
second.
I don't care.
I love you, I love too.
Thank you, you're welcome.
How can I get me birth code?
Thanksgiving dinner.
this is brutally made .
Mom, this is my podcast.
You're not doing me no.
I just want to talk about someof the things you told me when
you were younger with art,because I love knowing what you
did when you were, um, all thestories that you've told me
about art and what you enjoyeddoing, and some of the stories
(00:30):
how you almost did more with artthan what you have done in your
life, because right now you arewhat?
74, yep, yeah, and I'm 54, andso it's 20 years apart from us
and there's 20 years apart fromRiley and the girls and stuff.
So I love the story that youtold me when you were really
young and you used to do thedrawings that were in like the
(00:55):
TV guide, and it was a turtleand the pirate and I think there
was a hair and it was like drawlike this and it was for the
art institutes, right, yeah, andso what did you draw and submit
?
I think it's a pirate, okay,and the head of a pirate or
something.
And I won and they came to ourhouse and they wanted me to go
(01:21):
to some school and I was young,yeah, yeah, and my dad wasn't
having any of that because he sohe actually talked to a guy
that came to the house.
He was down to the barn wheredad was working on his tractor,
yeah, and he came up in a realfancy car and had a uh like a
(01:43):
long, uh man coat, a trench coat, yeah, and he was out there
talking to my dad because I hadto ask him who he was.
And he was talking for a longtime and he left.
And when the king dad came tothe house he does it.
Mom said who was she talking to?
And dad said some man.
(02:06):
You remember I would alwaysdraw on everything in the house.
Yeah, and uh, he he told momwho it was and everything and he
gave me this paper.
I don't know what I did with itback then, but I don't.
I.
I was like, um, let's see, Isay I was probably about 15
(02:26):
years old, okay, and anyway, hetold him no, my daughter's not
going anywhere.
So they wanted you to go to artschool, yeah, yeah, and because
he wouldn't, so you mailed thaton your own.
Yeah, you mailed that in, yeah,and I won, because my mom and
(02:50):
dad was very, very protective ofus kids.
This is really funny that theywent back then and they like
what's your house?
They would find you.
Yeah, but anyway, he couldn'tbelieve I was the age I was to
draw, that it doesn't matter theage you are when you draw.
But then I would draw stuff atschool.
(03:13):
People usually had to look atsomething to draw it.
And my art teacher, mr Goodman,and his wife, she was a home ec
teacher at school.
Yeah, at that time, anyway, hesays I'm going to say one word
(03:35):
and I want you to draw a pictureof it.
Yeah, and everybody goes.
Ha.
He said fear, everybody's going.
Ha, ha, in their class.
Yeah, they're out of fitbecause they didn't know how to
do that.
So he said fear, everybody'sgoing, you know, in class.
Yeah, they're on a fit becausethey didn't know how to do that.
So he said fear, I hadn't donelike a minute less, yeah.
And he says this is what I'mtalking about.
(03:57):
Oh, he picked up your piece.
Yes, and I thought, oh, they'reall going to get mad at me now.
And anyway, I sat there and Ihad drawn a stair, steps shallow
in underneath the stairs with alittle girl all afraid, oh,
hiding.
Yeah, she had fear on the faceand I don't want any girl that I
(04:21):
don't.
But to me that would be fear,yeah, and so I'm afraid
someone's going to comedownstairs and get her or
something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the kids all go you'rekidding.
And he said this is what I want.
He said, they said we don'thave nothing to look at.
They wanted a reference.
(04:46):
And you didn't need a reference, I just needed the word.
And uh, anyway, this is what wedid.
And then his wife and him wasfrom pennsylvania and they
wanted me to go to school there.
Yeah, because pittsburgh andpennsylvania has a really good
art school.
Well, that's where they werefrom.
Yeah, and uh, I say my mom anddad would let me do that.
Yeah, then we had this ladycome over to our school and she
(05:10):
wanted to do her master's mathand I did her master's.
So what do you mean?
You did?
You worked with her for hermaster's.
She didn't work.
I did the work and you drew herwork for her.
Oh, I drew the beatles.
Oh, paul, george and john andlingo, and this came out of my
(05:36):
head, yeah, and then they wereand every, and we she had a
camera and we used it.
The girls that worked with meas far as like with a camera.
Yeah, they took the clips and Iwould have these beetles move
and it's like the plan.
Oh so, stop motion animation,uh-huh, clip clip.
(05:58):
So you were, you, in high schoolwhen this happened.
Oh yeah, I was, uh, sophomore,oh my gosh.
And anyway, flip, flip, flip.
And then it gets even better.
I had a water that moved underthe beatles feet as they played,
oh my goodness.
And they moved.
You came up with all that.
(06:19):
And then at the end well, thatwould have been the same time
that the art person came to thehouse, because 15 is like
sophomore year in high school,anyway, I am.
Anyway, at the end of it shewas getting her master's and uh,
and at the end of it it wasback in the you know, 60, yeah,
(06:40):
yeah.
And so at the end of thebeatles thing, they went, kept
on going and I had this biglittle mushroom with this little
elf underneath the thing at thevery end and it looked like it
all blew up.
Oh, everything was moving.
(07:01):
That's really cool, gosh.
I wish I knew where that was.
Well, she had it.
Do you remember her name?
I didn't even know her name.
I don't think they might havetold me back then.
Yeah and uh, that's really sowe did that.
Then I did a lot of murals forpeople, yeah, in these houses in
macarthur.
Yeah, I remember you paintingmurals in people's houses.
(07:23):
Let's go back way back when youwere little.
Like what's the first time youremember drawing anything?
How old were you all the time?
I can't remember when I firststarted.
It was a very, very little then.
And then, just like I told you,when Hannah Ava came over, she
didn't.
Yeah, but I'm talking about you.
Oh, I mean, I know thegrandchildren, I know that, but
(07:43):
I'm talking about when youremember.
Oh, when you were little, Iwould draw on every piece of
paper I could find in the house,on the back of it.
If you had a plane, was italways pencils?
Pencils?
Yeah, yeah, and um, do youremember the first time you got
crayons or paint?
I had crayons, but I didn'tlike them because I couldn't
shadow that good with crayons.
(08:04):
Oh, and I didn't like to be.
If I made a mistake on a picture, you want to be able to erase
it.
No, I just fixed it.
Oh, I never knew that.
Okay, I just fixed it, becauseif you draw with something like
that, you can't um, I don't know.
I just fixed it okay, and so,um, I like to do the fast draw.
(08:28):
Yeah, what's your favorite thingto draw?
I think I know what you like,but I want to hear what you
think you like to draw.
I would draw pictures that Ithought Jesus looked like.
Yeah, I, I would think.
I would think that I wouldthink people are your favorite
thing to draw.
Yeah, people are my favorite.
I can draw animals and just likethe and just what's important
(08:56):
to you, right, right, it's likewhen I told ava, I'm, I'm, I'm
not, and let's tell anybody.
I told her she was havingproblems drawing.
She says teacher, school wantsher to look at something and
draw that.
I said, well, that's nice andgood.
But I said I'm going to giveyou, um, something that I have,
(09:17):
and and she says what she said.
I said I'm going to give youone word and I want you to draw
it.
What you feel that word lookslike to you.
I said love.
She looked at me, this littlekid who drew the heart.
Ava drew her drawings werepretty bad at that time and she
(09:38):
drew a flat envelope with a loveletter in it and it shall shade
it in.
And I had family and I drawed atree and I and I wrote then I
had this cemetery with atombstone but I had this family
(10:00):
tree and had everybody's on thistree, on the kids and all and
on the tree it says tw plus lwthat's me and your grandpa and
um, and it's a cemetery and Ihad her little things out there,
like it was an old one, andtombstones and I said this is
(10:25):
out of two people, this is whatgod gave us all these people on
this tree.
Yeah, and that was love.
Yeah, and she loved it.
Yeah, that was good that youhad to draw together like that.
And I said, uh, you don't haveto.
I said, if you just use your,you can you see anything in your
(10:47):
mind, and that's a real gift.
That's really difficult for alot of people to look at
something in their head and tohave it come out in their hand.
I um been able to do that sinceI was very little.
Yeah, that's, that's verytalented mom.
So you never went to collegefull-time.
I do remember when you went tocollege, I had to take him with
(11:11):
me, right one class and you hada baby and went to school with
me.
Yeah, you, you took him, but Ididn't like that class you had
art history.
No, it was art expression.
Uh-huh and um, wasn't there afamous artist coming to the
school, andy warhol?
Yeah, I remember you telling meabout this and tell me about
(11:31):
that whole thing.
And I didn't go, I know,because you were like I don't
like him, I didn't like hisstyle, what on earth, mom?
I didn't like it because hetook people and just copied
their faces, lots of them, andjust made them in different
(11:53):
colors, like famous people, likewillman, right, right, right,
and he had all different colors,iconic artist.
You're like, I didn't go, Ididn't like him.
I remember you telling me that.
So you had that class, artisticexpression.
Yes, and uh, andy warhol, andhe was there, they brought him
(12:15):
to OU, yep, yep, and I didn't go.
Oh my, but I had a kid, I know,I know.
But did you like theassignments for class?
Yes, I did real well, it wasmore art expression and it was
more abstract.
I don't like abstract.
(12:37):
You did, I know you don't, andso I liked it.
Okay, but I really think thatprofessor, he was funny.
This guy asked a question, hewent on and on about his student
in the class and the guy downthere, the old professor.
(12:57):
He stood there, listening,listening, listening, and
finally he said the guy downthere, the old professor who
stood there, listen, listen,listen.
And finally he said the guy,quit, talk.
Uh-huh.
He says I'm absolutely how hesaid it.
Uh, like he was dumber, he did,uh, expression art, abstract
art and people walking aroundwith lights on their heads and
(13:19):
all this.
Yeah, I didn't like that.
Uh, I didn't come there to dothat.
I come there to want to moreabout how could I know how to do
more out of what I got?
You mean, you wanted to learnhow to do more out of what I got
.
You wanted to learn how to domore realism.
(13:41):
You like realistic drawing.
I can remember whenever youwould try to challenge me.
Drawing is that if it looks justlike it does in real life.
That's when you thought it wasright.
That's when people, I thought,don't have to guess at what
you're doing.
They see it.
I don't have to guess at whatyou're doing.
Yeah, you see it.
I don't like to guess stuff andI like it to be seen, and so
(14:06):
you don't want somebody tointerpret the, the work into a
different way.
You want it to be.
This is exactly what I meant Iwant to be.
When you see somebody, thatthat person and or you see, um,
anything like that, like peopledraw still life, like fruit or
something.
Yeah, I didn't care about thateither.
I don't like you still like,because you probably didn't have
(14:27):
an emotional like connectionwith it.
You're like art to you, thevery emotional, connecting.
Yes, I love to draw children.
I, I love to draw little kids,I love to draw old time people,
angels.
I love drawing angels andthings like that.
I've never seen a real angel,but I just got in my mind what
they should look like.
(14:49):
And so when you got to do thesemurals for people and they gave
you a subject that they wantedto do, was that frustrating for
you because you were drawingwhat they wanted rather than
what you wanted?
No, it was.
It was real life, like the bankgave me.
Uh, they didn't tell me what topaint, right, they wanted me to
do something for a BentonCounty bat wall and it was a
(15:10):
huge wall.
It was the length it's oh, itwas 30 feet.
Yeah, yeah, and your dad builtme a scaffold.
That was fun.
The climate yeah, this is a manwho hated heights.
Yeah, they built a homemadescaffolds for you to climb and
use.
And anyway, I got on myscaffold and I covered that
whole back.
(15:30):
Yeah, and I want to.
I'm going to emphasize you didnot grid this out.
No, I didn't use, it was allfreehand, the entire entire wall
.
That was like 30 feet high byjust as long.
It was huge, as high as thiswall.
Yeah, it was huge, it was big.
And then you got up on thatscaffold.
You painted everything by handof this entire country scene
(15:54):
with trains.
Well, I started out in thewoods.
I did these trees and in thetrees I had beers.
Yeah, I know I gave you asketch.
Yeah, you, I knew you sketchedit out.
But it's not like right now, alot of people will doodle on the
wall and then they'll map outexactly where everything goes.
No, you didn't do any of that.
No, I just I didn't even go bythe sketch I gave him.
(16:18):
Yeah, you just kept addingthings and making things up.
I had the trees and I had theleaves and everything, and it
was kind of going down this way,because the wall was kind of
that way, and so I got down toit's really pretty.
The deers were in the woods andthey was looking out, they look
real, yeah, and the grass andeverything, everything looked
(16:41):
real.
And then I got down where Iwanted to put a, a creek bed,
yeah, and I draw two little boyswith overhauls on.
One had a hat on the back andsaid they were fishing and I had
to make my water look like itwas moving.
And so I did, yeah, and youcould see down through.
(17:02):
You see shadows, yeah, and overtop the water I put a bridge,
uh huh, I remember that, and thebridge where we had bitton
County had the bridges, yeah.
And the guy at the bank, he hada thing, oh, a train, yep,
(17:24):
there's a train, it called itsomething in town, and this
train was how to track, causeyou have a mountain up there
with good winter over top thatbridge and this kind of tracking
that.
And that train was, but gothrough the track.
I mean the bridge, yeah, yeah.
(17:45):
And so it wasn't car bridge, itwas a train bridge, yeah, and
uh, then the woods up there.
But the funnest thing I thoughtwas making the water look like
it was and you could see downthrough the water, yeah, the
shadows, yeah.
And I said I, if I was going todo something, I wanted to look
real, look real, right, and itis really pretty.
(18:09):
I know I have asked the bankfor years if anyone had pictures
of this.
The lady that had this, bobWill, had the sketches, yeah,
and he died, yeah, and his wifedied.
So I don't know, he probably,but the sketches yeah, but I
know it was in the paper andI've always asked people that
worked at the paper and the bankalways wanted to see if
(18:31):
somebody had pictures.
I thought Martha Smith had tooka picture of that, but she came
up and watched people come upand watch me, which I didn't
like.
You don't like people watchingyour work, do you?
No, no, no, I'm busy and I'mvery fast, yeah, and I just
don't want to stop and talk.
I don't want to stop and talkand so I want to get it done
because I had you know I, youwas probably aunt ruby's house
(18:54):
while I was there.
The ruby come up, yeah, Iremember, I remember you doing
it.
It was really cool, and thenthey built picnic tables and
they walled it off so nobodywould vandalize it.
Then he said, linda I.
He said would you want to putsomething over that?
I said you made me paint thaton, that paint you had on there
(19:14):
and I said I hope it don't peel.
That's why I told him and Isaid you wouldn't going to
repaint right that and uh, soanyway, he, he, they built onto
the yeah, and that's whathappened and it's really cool
that you did that.
I remember you doing that.
I remember you painting inpeople's houses.
Oh, I did a lot of murals forpeople's houses.
(19:36):
Now I do remember you startinga mural in our house and you
didn't like it.
You were very frustrated.
We ended up mirroring theentire wall.
I got really good, I got tired,I didn't like.
I remember.
I remember I remember the, thewater in the middle and the tree
and you started in the centerand you didn't like it.
You got so frustrated because Iended up putting mirrors on the
(19:56):
wall.
I, when I didn't like something, I didn't like it and I
wouldn't go to make make anymore time on it.
Then I had to.
Yeah, because I don't like togo.
I don't like to do somethingthat takes me a long time.
Yeah, you're very impatient.
The other thing that I think isreally cool is that in your
(20:18):
lifetime, even though you neverreally focused on art like that
with studies, you went into aculinary field.
You started working at OU inthe dining halls.
They found that you werecreative.
You started making sculpturesout of food.
I would make yes, I make allthe usual.
(20:41):
People always made tomato roses, yeah, people always made
tomato roses, yeah.
But I found that I can make, uh, orange peel.
Take the orange peel off theorange and then the white skin
on this.
Done, I would make roses andflowers out of that and then dye
(21:02):
is really pretty, oh, yeah, youwould use the fruit or the dye
and I would cut that and I takeit out and then it would uh
actually forget any color youwanted, yeah, out of that.
And you get to the point wherethey wanted you to teach that
and you were like no, no, youcan't.
(21:22):
I couldn't teach that, Iwouldn't.
I tried to show people work howto do it and it was that would
help.
You tell me, yeah, I said, canyou just carve it?
Yeah, no, it's just funny howyou knew how to do that out of
no instruction, you just cameout.
I could do that tomato, umroses, or I could do tomato
(21:45):
sculptures.
You did mountains, you did palmtrees, you did stuff out of
pineapple and you did this forthe President's Center.
Yes, I did.
One time I did all this stuff Alot.
I don't know what that dinnerwas.
We had a lot of people there.
It was on the old side, whichwas all fancy, and the cafeteria
(22:05):
which we came through, anyway,the old side, which was all
fancy, yeah, and the cafeteriawhich we came through, anyway,
the old side, and they had thefood.
People from, uh, where theywanted me that time they went to
chicago and I didn't go there.
I know, I know you wouldn'ttravel and anyway, uh, these
(22:26):
people that came.
Oh, I know what I did, but I hada bank thing.
This is another one.
I had a bank, big bank dinnerfor all the banks and I made a
cheese ball which was a cheesedollar, yeah, out of vegetables
and stuff like that, it's like athing.
(22:47):
But the cheese part looked likea dollar bill and it had green
yeah on it, yeah, and it lookedjust like a dollar bill and they
wanted to know who did that.
And then we had a columnarycompany come in, yeah, and they
wanted to know who did thosetrees for this dinner and I had
(23:10):
all kinds of vegetables aroundthe palm tree, yeah, and I
covered the yeah, start themwith um, wasn't it pineapple,
pineapple wine, and looked likea palm tree and the top I put,
um, they had these.
(23:31):
I don't forget it was like itwas eatable things flying out
like the, probably like aparsley stems and stuff.
Oh, it was bigger than that.
Okay, anyway, I had that.
And then at the bottom it saidon a piece of great big plastic
and then I sectioned the food onevery one of them.
I thought that was pretty cool.
Huh, they never seen thingslike it.
(23:52):
Because I made it up, yeah, andI had the maintenance guys make
me the styrofoam.
Yeah, you would tell them formsyou needed.
Yeah, and they cut me out allkinds of stuff.
Like we had a Texas dinner onetime and they made me all kinds
of cactus.
I painted them, they made them.
Then one year we had Halloweenand in the Jefferson's dining
(24:19):
hall, everywhere I went, thekids were following me, the
students, okay.
And this year I went outsidethis is where I'm working and I
went outside and I painted thisplastic tablecloth orange like a
squire and I put that on thatbig it was a little, it's a good
(24:44):
size wagon we had in that onionhole, yeah, and I put a
skeleton.
I made a skeleton and put thatskeleton in the front of that
setting in the wagon and I put,I put a light inside of the
light inside of the uh, coveredwagon, yeah, so it was on fire.
(25:07):
It was on fire and I had a fan,oh, and so the orange thing,
the orange tablecloth, I meanthe tablecloth, yeah.
Then one time I turned off thewagon into a circus wagon and I
put a I draw a lion on a greatthing.
(25:28):
They put that on it and uh, itwas really funny because I, I,
it was a lion, it was in a cage,that's cool.
And uh, just a picture lookedjust like a wagon.
You see some circus, and theydidn't pay you extra for any of
this, but they would like giveyou cameras and stuff and you're
like I don't know how to usethis and anyway, on the bottom
(25:52):
of it, that's how mean I am I, Imeryl, my buddy, yeah, I love
meryl, meryl, lion famous.
Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.
You named your lion meryl.
Yeah, he goes.
You just so mean to me and Idon't shed it now.
Oh, my goodness, that's sofunny that we had a lot of fun.
(26:14):
I had a lot of fun at work.
I got along.
I love the people I know I'veso set my left because I had to
retire.
Yeah, you'd had you need.
You deserve to retire, mom,you've had a lot of work because
I was cooking plus doing that.
Yeah, yeah, I know I never tooka break.
I like break time.
This when I did my artwork yeah,you draw napkins and people
(26:35):
would want to keep them.
Yeah, I gave them away toeverybody.
And the young kids come by andsay, did you just draw that?
And I go, yeah, I said you canhave it, can I have that?
Oh, and I thought, yeah, Ialways did that.
I like the kids.
Yeah, I know you're a goodgrandma too.
Yeah, but well, I just wantedto like kind of capture these
(26:59):
stories that you have told meover the years because I just
thought they were so cute and Iwish you would still draw.
I think I know your hand.
You have arthritis from all theyears of working.
I know your poor little handsand I think it would be good
therapy for you to do that.
But I know arthritis.
I still can draw.
Yeah, I got this.
(27:21):
This is what I draw with.
Yeah, they used to crookedestones.
See, this one's bent this way,yeah, and my hands?
I, you know I've worked all mylife.
I know Working and I know I wasraised as farm girl.
I know you were, I know youwere, you're very talented.
Oh, I don't know about that.
You are, you are.
(27:43):
I don't feel I'm talented, Ionly think I feel like I, if I
ever accomplish anything in life, it would be that I was a good
mom, yeah, and a good grandma,yeah.
Yeah, that's what I want.
Well, you definitely did that.
That's it, I know, because Ithink you get one shot in life
(28:09):
and you should be happy.
What you do, yeah, you should,and a lot of people aren't they
always searching something tomake them happy.
I know, and I never had to dothat and I could say I had a
very blessed life.
Yeah Well, I'm blessed thatyou're my mom, I'm blessed that
(28:30):
you're my daughter, even thoughshe's mean.
I'm mean, yeah, I'm spoiled.
That's what dad always calledher.
Spoiled Because I was the onlygirl.
Yes, you was, I know, I'm verymuch like that.
And your brothers, my brothers,could do no wrong, but I, your
brothers, did plenty, yeah, buty'all went to college and you
(28:54):
all went to school and we didbecause of you.
I worked at au and I got yourschool for it, yeah, I know.
And then we love you for it,but I do it all over again for
my grandkids, like I know youwould.
You were here for them, thoughyou still are, so.
So my grandchildren and mychildren and all your, all my
(29:15):
family I got a son-in-lawsitting over there.
I can't you don't hear me.
He hears you.
He loves you.
Well, I love you and I justwanted to get this out there in
the world because I love yourstories.
I thought they were so cool.
Are you putting this out there?
I am.
I thought you just saved it foryourself.
No, this is it.
You won't be on video.
It'll be audio.
Oh, they won't be able to seemy pretty hair, maybe for a
(29:38):
second.
I don't care.
I love you, I love too.
Thank you, you're welcome.
How can I get me birth code?
Thanksgiving dinner.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.