April 5, 2020 • 37 mins
Bill Sproule, Executive Secretary, Treasurer (EST) of the Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters introduces himself to the Commonwealth and discusses his vision for the building trades union organization. Sproule talks with Chris Martin and Jon O'Brien of the Building PA Podcast.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to another episode of building
Pennsylvania, a constructionindustry podcast, a recorded
right here in the great state ofPennsylvania for, uh, our
Commonwealth's best industry.
I'm John O'Brien here from theKeystone contractors
association, and this is ChrisMartin with Atlas marketing and
joining us today.
(00:22):
Uh, we're pretty proud of thisand pretty excited about this.
We have, uh, bill sprawl, theEST executive secretary
treasurer for the EasternAtlantic States, regional
council of carpenters.
Hello bill.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning, gentlemen.
Thank you very much for havingme on, on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you.
So you've been EST now,
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Year and a half, maybe two years.
Actually I was, uh, appointedEST in April of 2019 when a
promotion took place.
My former EST bill Watercott waspromoted to Eastern district
vice president for ourinternational.
So in April I was appointed tothe job and then we had an
(01:06):
upcoming election that tookplace in August, where I was
elected to a four year term torepresent, uh, what was Keystone
mountain lakes, regional councilof carpenters.
We just renamed the council dueto the very, uh, unique and
diverse territories that we haveto Eastern and Atlantic States.
So I was elected to thatposition in August of 19.
(01:30):
So I'm in the first year of myterm,
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Along with a diverse, uh, territory that the
carpenters, your counsel nowcovers.
And the big question is from alot of them who is bill, bill
squirrel.
You want to introduce yourselfto our contractors?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Sure, absolutely.
Um, I I'm a 31 year member ofthe United brotherhood of
carpenters and joiners.
I got into the apprenticeship alittle bit later.
I was 22 years of age.
When I finally got into thecarpenter's union back in 1989,
it was pretty difficult to getin back then.
(02:07):
Uh, I was trying in Philadelphiaand I was trying down the shore
and the Atlantic city area.
And I grew up in DelawareCounty, Pennsylvania, but I
spent my summers.
That's a sure, but I've actuallybeen in construction probably
going back to the summer of1981.
Uh, I've been, I worked as aroofer's helper in the summers
(02:30):
down the shore with somerelatives that were involved in
that business and, uh, actuallygot into roofer's local 30 B the
residential arm of that on my18th birthday in 1984.
So I've basically been bangingnails, carrying shingles, or
doing carpentry, whether it'sinterior systems or concrete,
(02:52):
uh, you know, for quite sometime now, although I, uh, I was
able to have the uniqueopportunity in 1999, I was
working on the Brigantine tunnelconnector project down in
Atlantic city.
I was a shop steward there with90 carpenters and one of our, um
, business representatives wasconsidering retirement.
(03:15):
And it blew me away when youknow, the business manager.
And he came out to my site,which was the tunnel.
It was a nice three yearproject, which you didn't really
see those kinds of jobs thatoften.
And they asked me if I'd beinterested in being a, you know,
an organizer and a businessrepresentatives.
And I was actually able to, uh,you know, make the cut and be
(03:38):
the person that was hired forthat position.
And, uh, worked my way up.
And, you know, it's just been alearning experience ever since
we've been an evolution of manyregional councils.
I started out as a rep in acouncil called the Southern New
(03:58):
Jersey regional council ofcarpenters.
At that particular time, therewere four councils in New
Jersey.
There were multiple councils inthe state of Pennsylvania, and
there were, uh, hundreds oflocals in the region as well.
It was almost like every Countyor, or even more than that had a
local.
(04:19):
So in 2002, there was somemergers that took place.
And some consolidations and NewJersey was turned into a
regional council as a whole,instead of four councils.
And they still remained havinglike 26 local unions throughout
the state at that time.
But I had already been on staffand was learning the ropes.
(04:41):
And then, uh, and I was promotedto senior representative and
then organizing director andregional manager.
At one point, I became thepresident of the, the Northeast
regional council of carpenters,which was a merger that took
place in 2011.
And, uh, you know, things havejust been evolving.
(05:03):
Um, the Northeast regionalcouncil of carpenters was
actually kind of disbanded andmerged into KML and that
occurred in 2018.
And, uh, we were KML and Iserved as bill water cuts,
assistant executive secretarytreasurer, helping him run
(05:23):
pretty much the whole Easternside of the operation, which
would be, uh, New Jersey, uh,Southeastern Pennsylvania, the
Lehigh Valley right on downthrough Washington DC in
Virginia.
And then we went ahead and, uh,you know, bill moved up and we
just petitioned theinternational for our name
(05:44):
change.
It's funny, you know, Keystonemountain lakes was a great name
when the former greater PAcouncil merged with West
Virginia.
But when you add a New Jersey,Delaware, DC, Maryland,
Virginia, to that mix, you know,we, we used to joke around what
(06:04):
are we going to call thisKeystone mountain lakes, bays,
and estuaries.
So we started thinking of whatcould the name be and, uh,
unanimously in our earlyDecember, each board meeting,
uh, we kind of came to aconclusion that everybody was on
board with, uh, Eastern AtlanticStates.
I wrote to the international, uh, request to see if we can get a
(06:27):
name change.
And they actually granted thatwithin a week or so.
So we're in a unique spot rightnow where we're rebranding.
We are building our website outand our, uh, you know, our apps
and things like that.
And getting all of our identitychanged around to the new
council and get, you know,looking at a new logo and things
(06:50):
of that nature.
So it's a pretty exciting time.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Very exciting, indeed.
Yeah.
For the early on I kept callingthem the Keystone carpenters and
then the, and then the KML namefinally clicked with me and I
started using KML and then itswitches and then I'm sure I'll,
I'll adapt.
I'll go.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The only one that was frustrated with us changing the
name again, I hear it every timeI would encounter folks that I
hadn't seen in a while.
And I think, uh, one of thethings that pushed me over the
edge to really fast track, thiswas, uh, we had a group of
representatives attend an eventcalled the league of
municipalities in New Jerseydown in Atlantic city.
(07:32):
And it's basically a three dayswhere every elected official
from a municipal level Countylevel, state level converges on
AC and, you know, there'sworkshops and it's a conference.
Well, we actually did a booththis year and we had, uh, some
of our folks down there andpeople were coming up and, and
(07:52):
they would recognize thecarpenter's label or the, you
know, the, the insignia that wehave had for 1881.
But when they saw the KML,they'd be like what's KML.
And, you know, it just got to apoint where we really needed to
change our identity.
And I think, uh, in another sixmonths or another year or so,
(08:14):
you know, people reallyrecognize who we are Eastern
Atlantic States, and we arePennsylvania, New Jersey,
Delaware, Maryland, Virginia,West Virginia, the district of
Columbia, and now Puerto Rico.
And we actually have 10 countiesin Northern North Carolina.
Uh, what's unique about thiscouncil.
You know, we have a 42,000 plusmembers at this time and a good
(08:40):
majority of those membersactually hail from Pennsylvania
or New Jersey and the numbers.
I got some numbers here for ourPennsylvania members, you know,
since we're talking about theindustry and the market and the
diversity in the Keystone, andwe have 14,349 active members in
(09:01):
the state, and we have 4,817retired members in the States.
So when you look at that, uh,you know, a really good
percentage of our council is, iscertainly, uh, domiciled here in
Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So different name, but same great partnership with
the contractors.
And, uh, you know, we just enjoythis, a relationship we have
with the carpenters and, and,um, you know, let's, let's keep
it going, but, um, when it comesto your, uh, your leadership
style, um, what, what sort ofrole and what, what can you pull
on from your past experiencesduring your 31 years, you know,
(09:39):
in the field and as a rep, youknow, is there certain people
that kind of mentored you alongand kind of guided you?
Uh, is there any, you know,certain experiences that really
stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Absolutely.
Um, you know, when I firststarted, well, you know, go back
to the tools, uh, you know,being a roofer and then coming
into the carpenters, you know, Ikind of thought I, I, you know,
be able to just jump right inthere and no sweat.
I mean, I, wouldn't strong,young, not afraid of Heights,
uh, you know, could handle ahammer and, and other other
(10:13):
tools and things of that natureor saw.
And, uh, I got dumped on adrywall job and I had never
really done dry walls.
So I don't know if you canimagine somebody.
And I was tucked in the back ofthe Taj Mahal, you know, in the
back Carter's where they weredoing triple layer, dry wall.
And the screws were like two anda half inches long.
(10:33):
So starting out in thatenvironment, you know, on your
first day, it was a littleintimidating, but, uh, being
that I, you know, worked withtools and I, and I had a good
construction background, Istarted picking it up pretty
fast and, uh, became a reallygood interior systems carpenter,
thanks to the journeymen that Ihad to work with.
(10:55):
And, you know, they were, uh,although back then, they used to
torture the apprentices a bit,but they were very helpful in
teaching us the craft.
You know, that's, that'ssomething that we're definitely
getting away from is, uh, youknow, the, the old school where
the hazing that used to takeplace, if you will, you know,
it's something that we'redefinitely, uh, turning a corner
(11:16):
and, and trying to avoid that,especially with the millennials
black, uh, you know, I'm a gen Xor, and, and that's how it was.
And it was a great experience.
I got to learn interior systems.
Um, I got to learn some finishwork, uh, some I, and then I got
to get really good at and learnconcrete work and high rises.
I worked, uh, on several of thecasino additions, as well as the
(11:38):
tunnel and some bridges.
So it was a very well roundedexperience where I got to learn
how to multitask and diversifymy skills.
Um, I got to see the ups anddowns, the cyclical nature of
the business, you know, throughbooms and busts in the economy
and, uh, got to learn howimportant it was to have a good
(12:01):
reputation and be extremelyproductive if you want to make a
good living.
And, uh, you know, if you've gotcontractors that always want to
try to get you on board, thenyou know, you're gonna make it
through thick and thin.
So that was a great experience.
And then, you know, becoming a,uh, a representative was kind of
like starting all over again,because you got to imagine, you
(12:24):
know, I guess a 32 year old, Iwas working on concrete at the
time, you know, bolt bag andSpud, branch and formal, and,
you know, just, just getting it.
We had, uh, we had 50 foot by 30foot gang forms on the tunnel
that weighed 30 tons.
And I was on that gang.
(12:44):
I was a signal man and in theshop steward.
And then next thing, you know,I'm walking into an office
trying to figure out what to dowith a fax machine.
So it's kinda funny to me, don'teven use those things anymore.
But, uh, so I struggled a littlebit for a short time in the
office, just getting the hang of, uh, you know, wearing a tie
(13:05):
and, uh, you know, it wasn't alloffice work.
Obviously I was out in the fieldorganizing and going on job
sites and turning jobs aroundand, you know, uh, gaining
market share for our local andour members.
But I think the best thing is Ialways had the mindset that you
got to learn something new everyday, no matter how experienced
(13:26):
you are, there's always somebodyout there that's going to
probably teach us something.
And then, uh, you know, as, as Iget older now and move up in
ranks in the position, you startto notice that, uh, you know,
you gotta actually be able toconvey that same energy back to
the people that are working foryou so that they can learn.
(13:49):
And you got to give them theopportunities to have failures
and success at the same time.
It's the only way people aregoing to learn.
So that's kinda like mymanagement style.
Um, I surround myself with agreat team, my, my leadership
team, everybody else, I expectthem to work hard.
This is not just a job.
(14:10):
It's more of a lifestyle.
I can honestly say.
I probably log about 3000 hoursplus a year.
And I don't expect everybody todo that.
That's what I have to do with mytravels and everything else
that's going on, but I expect mypeople to work hard for the
membership and, you know, wehave a great team and, uh, I'm
(14:32):
not afraid to surround myselfwith people that may even be
smarter than I am, especiallywith the technology stuff we, we
need, uh, folks that are, thatare great, uh, organizing things
and great with the computertechnology.
I I've been learning that as Igo.
And, uh, you know, I'm, I'mdoing okay with it.
(14:54):
I, I, I do read my emails, whichis something in this day and
age.
I never, I never imagined thatemails would be like the, the
worst thing that you have todeal with in work.
But just to give you an example,I come back from a vacation and
I have over a thousand of thethings.
So, and I do read them, uh, someof the guys that have my job
(15:19):
just basically say, you know,they, they leave it up to other
folks to track them down aboutthe important emails and all
that stuff.
But for whatever reason, I'm aglutton for punishment.
Uh, I, you know, I stay on topof things and, uh, try to
multitask and try to lead thisorganization the best I can, but
I honestly gotta say it used tobe, I used to say a hundred
(15:42):
phone calls, suck the life outhere.
And that's when I was, uh, a newbusiness agent, dispatching
members to work and fieldingphone calls and taking care of
problems.
But now it's, uh, you know, I'dlove to have maybe half those
phone calls and maybe half lessthe emails that I deal with.
And I think the world would be abetter place
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Bill.
You're not alone in that becauseI can say definitively, I feel
your pain.
Uh, um, uh, that email volume isabout the same for me.
So I, I hear ya.
Um, th thank you for thatintroduction to yourself and
letting our listeners understanda little bit more about bill as
John put it.
But I, from my experience in thepast, working with, with the KML
(16:29):
, uh, you know, we did website,we did newsletters, we did some
other things, presentations andhelping on the political side.
Uh, I know personally that thecarpenters have some issues that
you want to rectify.
Can you talk a little bit aboutsome of those issues and, uh,
(16:49):
how that's affecting the, thevision and the direction that
you're taking to
Speaker 2 (16:55):
In the future abs absolutely.
John, uh, I think that thenumber one issue facing not only
the carpenters, but many othertrades in the construction
industry is a misclassification,uh, the underground economy tax
fraud in the constructionindustry.
And, and it mostly pertains toprivate sector.
(17:17):
Uh, in some States you, you seeit even in the public sector,
work in the prevailing wagewhere there's a lax enforcement
of, of the rags and laws.
But when you look at the amountof construction workers that are
working off the books, justthink about every one of those
construction workers working offthe books, there's, there's
(17:41):
multiple victims and, you know,average people from other
occupations do not realize thatthey're victims of this as well.
And basically what happens iswhen you have a workforce that's
not helping contribute intolocal, uh, state County taxes,
(18:02):
federal taxes, and things ofthat nature creates less
opportunities for young peoplethat want to move into the
construction trade.
Um, not to mention legitimatecontractors that have small,
medium and large size businessesthat, uh, have, you know, made
their bones in this industry areunder siege by this problem,
(18:25):
because there's, there's no wayto compete when a developer or
an end user or somebody decidesthat a would rather not use
union labor to try to save a fewbucks.
And the bottom line is that thegeneral contractors that use the
unscrupulous subcontractorsthat, you know, that operate in
(18:48):
this manner still make a ton ofmoney.
Margins are off the charts forthe subs, because they're not
paying proper workman's comp,they're not paying taxes, and
they're exploiting a workforcewhere they're violating state
and federal laws, you know,labor laws and things of that
nature.
(19:09):
And it's something that is anepidemic in some States.
And in other States, it's kindof just been growing and
growing.
And I'm going to say, you know,30 years ago, 30, some years ago
when I was a roofer, you neverreally saw too much of this, not
even with the home builders.
And, but then it startedhappening in the residential
(19:31):
industry.
And then I think when thehousing bust took place, uh, you
know, before the great recessionand everything, that's when it
really took off in thecommercial industry where these
unscrupulous subcontractors and,you know, developers and people
that are looking to cut cornersand make more money on their
(19:51):
investments and save money wouldrather, you know, go down that
path then and use a legitimatecontractor that pays their
workers, fair wages, benefits,and it's, it's just devastating
to the industry.
And if, if it keeps goingunchecked and keeps growing, uh,
we have a real battle on ourhands.
(20:13):
I deal with this, uh, you know,the DC Virginia market and the
Maryland markets are ravaged bythis practice.
Uh, New Jersey probably hasabout 35 to 40,000 construction
workers.
They are working off the books.
We're, we're starting to see itin places like Jersey city and
up in, you know, up in the big,uh, big, you know, urban areas
(20:36):
now where multimillion dollarprojects are being done with
crews that are second, thirdtier subcontractors off the
books, and we're trying to getstate government to up.
We know right now, federal,government's not going to do
much about it.
They've been watering down theIRS ever since, uh, you know,
going back probably two or threepresidents ago.
(20:59):
And, you know, it's, it'ssomething that this is our
battle cry.
We, we did rallies last year inmultiple locations on a tax day,
April 15th, and we're gearing upto do it again.
And we're going to continue toeducate the public, um, you
know, elected officials andanyone we can about this issue
(21:21):
and how it affects everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Absolutely.
It's a, it's a huge issue.
And I proudly stood with my, uh,carpenter friends at some of
those rallies spoke at some ofthe rallies, uh, testified
alongside the carpenters.
Uh, I just got to commend youfor the you and your staff and
your people are doing anexcellent job shedding light on
this very serious issue.
So Bravo to you, keep it up.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Thank you very much, John.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah.
Uh, any other big, ah, bigissues that you guys are looking
at?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Absolutely.
You know, the, uh, industryapprenticeships that, uh, the
United States department oflabor and, and president Trump
I've been, you know,considering, and there was
actually a period of time whereyou could, you could write in
and comment on, uh, you know,what you're you as an individual
(22:14):
or an organization thought aboutthat stuff.
And, uh, I know there washundreds of thousands of
responses.
Uh, we were very proactive.
Uh, I have, uh, seven jointapprentice training funds that
I, I co-chair throughout ourcouncil.
And we had every, one of ourtraining directors, uh, help
weigh in on the issue.
(22:36):
And we, we created a, uh, aresponse that was kind of a
collaboration throughout thecouncil on why this should not
happen in the constructionindustry.
And, you know, when you look atsome of the apprentice programs
that have been active outsideof, of the union traits and, and
(22:58):
ours in particular, the, the UBC, you know, the carpenter
apprentice programs, they're,they're very watered down.
Um, there was no clear, uh,there's no clear way of
identifying whether or notpeople are actually fulfilling
their obligations with theiractual training.
(23:20):
And they're on the job traininghours and things of that nature.
And quite frankly, there waslittle or no data out there that
actually proves that there'seven graduations and folks that
are succeeding on to becomingjourney folks.
Uh, on the other hand, when youlook at our stuff, it's very
regimented it's, um, dollarburned either by, you know, the
(23:43):
States or, or by the bat, theBureau of apprenticeship
training.
And I had came through theprogram and I'm extremely proud
that I did.
And I think it's a shame that,you know, there's forces out
there that, that want to waterthis down and allow the same
contractors that I was talkingabout earlier that practice
(24:03):
payroll fraud and cheat day inand day out to actually
insinuate that they have anapprentice program and have
apprentices on their projectsthat they're trying to mentor
and help them become journeypeople and create a long lasting
career for them because it'stotal BS.
I mean, it's absurd, but, uh,you know, we just have to keep
(24:27):
fighting the fight.
Our, our adversaries think that,you know, because of what's
going on down in Washingtonright now, and the
administration that, you know,they they've got the upper hand,
but the reality is, you know,there's, there's nothing better
than a union apprenticeship inthis country when it comes to
trades, especially when it comesto carpenters, millwrights, dock
(24:50):
builders, floor layers, and aperfect example of that is
yesterday.
When I was out at the shellCracker plant, um, the
contractor out there, it's anoffshoot of Bechtel, which
everybody knows they're huge, uh, you know, multinational
contractor.
They actually work all over theworld, but, uh, the, the
(25:13):
contractor called great arrowbuilders, which is the signatory
that is employing a lot of ourfolks out there and self
performing, a lot of differentthings.
I decide from the scaffold.
We have scaffoldedsubcontractors out there with,
there was over 1100 workers onthat site right now that are UBC
members, carpenters,millwrights, scaffold builders,
(25:35):
there's 240 apprentices on thatsite.
And when I tell you what anorganized well-run efficient,
safe job site, that was to tourthat yesterday and be down in
the labyrinths of, of a five,$6billion project, it was totally
amazing.
(25:56):
And what I heard from talking tosome of the folks, some of our
people was that a similarproject had recently been built,
I guess, over the past five oreight years down in Louisiana.
And it was the same type of aproject.
And it was before they wereconsidering coming up into this
(26:16):
area and doing, doing theCracker plant.
And basically there's, there'smilestones that have been met on
this project where we'veabsolutely out shined the
performance of the workers downin Louisiana.
That was a, an open shop job.
(26:37):
And although, you know, peoplemay not come out and admit it
from, you know, from thecorporate world and all that
stuff.
They, you know, it's, it'sleaking out there that man, you
know, the folks in Western PAthat are on that project and all
the traveling, uh, trades peoplefrom the carpenter's union and
(26:57):
all the other unions that areout there building that
magnificent facility are doing aknockdown job.
I, I mean, it's, it's incrediblethe, the praise that they're
getting, the safety record,things of that nature.
So, you know, we just have tokeep making sure that we are
promoting what we really are.
(27:18):
You know, we are, we are thebest in the business where
we're, well-trained we'reprofessionals.
We, um, we promote ongoingtraining and journeymen upgrade,
and there should be no reasonwhy any, uh, medium or large
construction site should everconsider not using those types
(27:41):
of workers to build theirbuildings or their facilities or
whatever, whatever it is thatthey're constructing
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Amen to that well said.
Yeah.
I, uh, you know, I, I do a lotof outreach to, uh, the clients
and the end users, you know,promoting our contractor.
And when asked about theworkforce, I, a common word I
always use is spoiled.
I said, our contractors arespoiled because of the
(28:11):
carpenters that we employ on ourjob sites, you know, what the
quality construction safety,either reliable drug free and
just, just a world class, youknow, best training program.
So, you know, we're spoiled.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for spoiling uscontractors.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Absolutely done.
You know, I want to give youanother quick example.
Something just popped into myhead.
That is a perfect real lifeexample of you get what you pay
for.
Um, there's a project thatunfortunately went open shop
down on the, uh, the coast downin Monmouth County.
(28:50):
It's in, uh, Asbury park.
And it's an it's, it's one ofthe types of projects that, uh,
I actually get pretty upset whenmy team tells me, Oh, well,
sorry, boss.
You know, that, that one's notus.
It's, uh, you know, it wentnon-union and you know, we've,
we've been doing investigations.
(29:10):
The project might not even bedone yet.
It's probably four, four yearsin the making, or maybe they're
close.
They're probably gonna try toturn key it maybe by this
summer, but it's, uh, it's alarge, uh, probably like a 22
story condominium buildingrather large.
And, and they went in there and,you know, they, they they've
been pecking away at this thing.
(29:31):
And as you know, time is money.
So they got very unscrupulous,low budget contractors in there
to, to get their best pricepoints.
But when it came to the interiorsystems piece, they had hired
someone, you know, that we knowis, is, is no good.
And, you know, basically hirespeople off the books and then
hires the third tier subs.
(29:53):
You hire people that just showup and, you know, it's just a
real, you know, real mess, a hotmess.
Well, the interior guys had allthe doors and hardware as well
in their contract.
And I learned, I guess about sixmonths ago that one of our
signatory contractors thatspecializes in doors and
(30:16):
hardware had to go in on a, wewon't even call it a punch list
because it was basically everydoor, every piece of hardware in
this whole building.
And I'm probably talking about400 plus condominiums that are
in this place.
(30:37):
They had to go into this siteand practically fix everything.
And, you know, my point is, youknow, we do it right the first
time the punch lists are veryminimal.
Time is money and you get whatyou pay for.
And I'm actually going to followback up and try to find out from
our subcontractor, you know, howmany hours they logged, fixing
(31:01):
every one of those doors and inthis multimillion dollar mid
rise building, and hopefullyutilize that as, as a poster
child, you know, for developersand end users to certainly
consider hiring the rightcontractors that use the best
labor force in the industry todo their projects.
(31:23):
Yes, indeed.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you don't mind sharing any,any sort of, uh, uh, case
studies that you have, you know,I'm always promoting the
contractors, like I saidearlier.
Um, but yeah, I've, uh,thoroughly enjoyed the
discussion, like to keep it up.
And, um, Chris, do you haveanything you want to add?
Oh, bill, this has been great.
It's been a great chance to getto know you a little bit more
(31:45):
and hear your, uh, you know,your, your work style and the
approach that you bring.
So thank you very much.
I'm, I'm pretty sure ourlisteners are going to be very
happy and, uh, hopefully you'llbe hearing from a, a lot of the
KCA members and even other, uh,other folks in the construction
industry in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Sure.
Thank you, Chris.
Absolutely.
I look forward to it.
Uh, guys, I, I got one morething I want to bring to your
attention, John.
I haven't been able to talk toyou about this only because I
seems like I get a little breakand then I'm shot out of a
cannon and then, you know, allthe races again, I think, you
know, being on seven health andwelfare pension funds, you know,
(32:25):
kind of keeps me busy everyquarter alone, but we just
developed a new departmentwithin, um, you know, KML and
now Eastern Atlantic Statescalled industry and labor
compliance.
And I have them working hand inhand with our political
department, our communicationsdepartment and our organizing
(32:47):
department.
I'm starting to commingle thesegroups into one unit.
That'll basically also work witheach region, you know, like the
guys out in Lebanon and up inScranton and out in
Duncansville, Pittsburgh,Philadelphia, you name it.
But, uh, we did case studies onevery state within our council
(33:09):
and we know what the laws are onthe books against the
unscrupulous contractors, aswell as the prevailing wage
laws.
And the new gentleman that Ihired for this department is
very well versed.
And he's already conducted acouple of hundred forensic
audits and we've filedcomplaints with various
department of labor.
(33:29):
Um, primarily started off in NewJersey cause that's where he was
very familiar with issues, but Ihave him now educating my teams
in Pennsylvania and working withL and I, how to Harrisburg.
Um, we're, we're looking atMaryland, we're looking at
Delaware, we're looking at DC,Virginia, but you're going to
hear more and more about this.
And we're trying to plansomething right now.
(33:51):
And I guess I'm going to have tobreak this up into regions, but,
uh, we would like to invite thecontractors to come in, meet us
and hear about what we're doingwith this new department.
So I, once I can figure out whenwe might be able to schedule
something, instead of doingmultiple I'm thinking, maybe we
have, you know, John, yourassociation come in, maybe I'll
(34:14):
invite the guys, you know, from,uh, from the Pittsburgh area and
as well as maybe we'll do it inPhiladelphia and Ben Connors and
YMCA, and all those folks willcome in.
And, uh, we'd like to share withyou some of the stuff that
we're, we're building here,that's going to be a very
powerful, excuse me, as well ashelp us fight, you know, this
(34:39):
issue that we have at hand.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Sounds amazing.
That sounds awesome.
I'm looking forward to hearingmore about it and meeting this
gentleman.
And, uh, I can tell youfirsthand, whenever I discuss
this topic about laborcompliance and labor issues with
the contractors, and I tell themwhat the carpenters are doing.
Uh, at first there was a littlehesitation, like, are you sure
(35:02):
they're doing all this?
You know, but, but now they heardirectly from the reps and they
know that yes, you guys aredoing a lot on the issue.
And, uh, and we're, we're readyto work with you more on the
issue.
So yeah, it's, it's, uh, veryexciting for us.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah.
I think you're going to see alot in the next six months with
regards to this, uh, you know,it used to be, you know, some of
the representatives were prettytenacious with this kind of
stuff, but it was very limited.
And I set out to try to start toeducate them and, you know, it's
almost like not enough time in aday.
You know, a lot of these guysfeel like they're multitasking,
(35:39):
but by having this specificdepartment now that can help,
uh, do a lot of theadministrative work and a lot of
the tedious stuff that has to bedone in order to file a proper
complaint.
Uh, we're we're up and running.
And, uh, you know, I can tellthe unscrupulous contractors, uh
, with, with all sincerity that,uh, we're coming to a town near,
(36:02):
you
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Let's do this.
I'm excited.
I can imagine there's going tobe a few, uh, unscrupulous, uh,
contractors shaking a little bithere.
Cause this the force of thecarpenters coming after him, it
was going to be quiteimpressive.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah.
We've already got that going on.
Actually, we've, we've actuallysigned a couple of outfits that
were, uh, ABC affiliates over inJersey because of this endeavor.
So, you know, they, uh, theydecided to come over from the
dark side.
So I'm really looking forward tothis program.
Well, bill, thank you
Speaker 3 (36:35):
For a given us the time today.
Um, uh, I appreciate you, uh,helping us understand a little
bit more about the EAs and thetransition that you're going
through and, uh, look forward tomany more conversations here on
building PA podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Gentlemen, I appreciate youhaving me this morning and have
a wonderful week rest of theweek and we're going to get off
to the rest of our business thatwe have out here in the lovely
town of Pittsburgh.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Have a good day.
Bye bye.
Bye.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of building
Pennsylvania, a constructionindustry podcast, a recorded
right here in the great state ofPennsylvania for, uh, our
Commonwealth's best industry.
I'm John O'Brien here from theKeystone contractors
association, and this is ChrisMartin with Atlas marketing and
joining us today.
(00:22):
Uh, we're pretty proud of thisand pretty excited about this.
We have, uh, bill sprawl, theEST executive secretary
treasurer for the EasternAtlantic States, regional
council of carpenters.
Hello bill.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Good morning, gentlemen.
Thank you very much for havingme on, on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you.
So you've been EST now,
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Year and a half, maybe two years.
Actually I was, uh, appointedEST in April of 2019 when a
promotion took place.
My former EST bill Watercott waspromoted to Eastern district
vice president for ourinternational.
So in April I was appointed tothe job and then we had an
(01:06):
upcoming election that tookplace in August, where I was
elected to a four year term torepresent, uh, what was Keystone
mountain lakes, regional councilof carpenters.
We just renamed the council dueto the very, uh, unique and
diverse territories that we haveto Eastern and Atlantic States.
So I was elected to thatposition in August of 19.
(01:30):
So I'm in the first year of myterm,
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Along with a diverse, uh, territory that the
carpenters, your counsel nowcovers.
And the big question is from alot of them who is bill, bill
squirrel.
You want to introduce yourselfto our contractors?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Sure, absolutely.
Um, I I'm a 31 year member ofthe United brotherhood of
carpenters and joiners.
I got into the apprenticeship alittle bit later.
I was 22 years of age.
When I finally got into thecarpenter's union back in 1989,
it was pretty difficult to getin back then.
(02:07):
Uh, I was trying in Philadelphiaand I was trying down the shore
and the Atlantic city area.
And I grew up in DelawareCounty, Pennsylvania, but I
spent my summers.
That's a sure, but I've actuallybeen in construction probably
going back to the summer of1981.
Uh, I've been, I worked as aroofer's helper in the summers
(02:30):
down the shore with somerelatives that were involved in
that business and, uh, actuallygot into roofer's local 30 B the
residential arm of that on my18th birthday in 1984.
So I've basically been bangingnails, carrying shingles, or
doing carpentry, whether it'sinterior systems or concrete,
(02:52):
uh, you know, for quite sometime now, although I, uh, I was
able to have the uniqueopportunity in 1999, I was
working on the Brigantine tunnelconnector project down in
Atlantic city.
I was a shop steward there with90 carpenters and one of our, um
, business representatives wasconsidering retirement.
(03:15):
And it blew me away when youknow, the business manager.
And he came out to my site,which was the tunnel.
It was a nice three yearproject, which you didn't really
see those kinds of jobs thatoften.
And they asked me if I'd beinterested in being a, you know,
an organizer and a businessrepresentatives.
And I was actually able to, uh,you know, make the cut and be
(03:38):
the person that was hired forthat position.
And, uh, worked my way up.
And, you know, it's just been alearning experience ever since
we've been an evolution of manyregional councils.
I started out as a rep in acouncil called the Southern New
(03:58):
Jersey regional council ofcarpenters.
At that particular time, therewere four councils in New
Jersey.
There were multiple councils inthe state of Pennsylvania, and
there were, uh, hundreds oflocals in the region as well.
It was almost like every Countyor, or even more than that had a
local.
(04:19):
So in 2002, there was somemergers that took place.
And some consolidations and NewJersey was turned into a
regional council as a whole,instead of four councils.
And they still remained havinglike 26 local unions throughout
the state at that time.
But I had already been on staffand was learning the ropes.
(04:41):
And then, uh, and I was promotedto senior representative and
then organizing director andregional manager.
At one point, I became thepresident of the, the Northeast
regional council of carpenters,which was a merger that took
place in 2011.
And, uh, you know, things havejust been evolving.
(05:03):
Um, the Northeast regionalcouncil of carpenters was
actually kind of disbanded andmerged into KML and that
occurred in 2018.
And, uh, we were KML and Iserved as bill water cuts,
assistant executive secretarytreasurer, helping him run
(05:23):
pretty much the whole Easternside of the operation, which
would be, uh, New Jersey, uh,Southeastern Pennsylvania, the
Lehigh Valley right on downthrough Washington DC in
Virginia.
And then we went ahead and, uh,you know, bill moved up and we
just petitioned theinternational for our name
(05:44):
change.
It's funny, you know, Keystonemountain lakes was a great name
when the former greater PAcouncil merged with West
Virginia.
But when you add a New Jersey,Delaware, DC, Maryland,
Virginia, to that mix, you know,we, we used to joke around what
(06:04):
are we going to call thisKeystone mountain lakes, bays,
and estuaries.
So we started thinking of whatcould the name be and, uh,
unanimously in our earlyDecember, each board meeting,
uh, we kind of came to aconclusion that everybody was on
board with, uh, Eastern AtlanticStates.
I wrote to the international, uh, request to see if we can get a
(06:27):
name change.
And they actually granted thatwithin a week or so.
So we're in a unique spot rightnow where we're rebranding.
We are building our website outand our, uh, you know, our apps
and things like that.
And getting all of our identitychanged around to the new
council and get, you know,looking at a new logo and things
(06:50):
of that nature.
So it's a pretty exciting time.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Very exciting, indeed.
Yeah.
For the early on I kept callingthem the Keystone carpenters and
then the, and then the KML namefinally clicked with me and I
started using KML and then itswitches and then I'm sure I'll,
I'll adapt.
I'll go.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The only one that was frustrated with us changing the
name again, I hear it every timeI would encounter folks that I
hadn't seen in a while.
And I think, uh, one of thethings that pushed me over the
edge to really fast track, thiswas, uh, we had a group of
representatives attend an eventcalled the league of
municipalities in New Jerseydown in Atlantic city.
(07:32):
And it's basically a three dayswhere every elected official
from a municipal level Countylevel, state level converges on
AC and, you know, there'sworkshops and it's a conference.
Well, we actually did a booththis year and we had, uh, some
of our folks down there andpeople were coming up and, and
(07:52):
they would recognize thecarpenter's label or the, you
know, the, the insignia that wehave had for 1881.
But when they saw the KML,they'd be like what's KML.
And, you know, it just got to apoint where we really needed to
change our identity.
And I think, uh, in another sixmonths or another year or so,
(08:14):
you know, people reallyrecognize who we are Eastern
Atlantic States, and we arePennsylvania, New Jersey,
Delaware, Maryland, Virginia,West Virginia, the district of
Columbia, and now Puerto Rico.
And we actually have 10 countiesin Northern North Carolina.
Uh, what's unique about thiscouncil.
You know, we have a 42,000 plusmembers at this time and a good
(08:40):
majority of those membersactually hail from Pennsylvania
or New Jersey and the numbers.
I got some numbers here for ourPennsylvania members, you know,
since we're talking about theindustry and the market and the
diversity in the Keystone, andwe have 14,349 active members in
(09:01):
the state, and we have 4,817retired members in the States.
So when you look at that, uh,you know, a really good
percentage of our council is, iscertainly, uh, domiciled here in
Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So different name, but same great partnership with
the contractors.
And, uh, you know, we just enjoythis, a relationship we have
with the carpenters and, and,um, you know, let's, let's keep
it going, but, um, when it comesto your, uh, your leadership
style, um, what, what sort ofrole and what, what can you pull
on from your past experiencesduring your 31 years, you know,
(09:39):
in the field and as a rep, youknow, is there certain people
that kind of mentored you alongand kind of guided you?
Uh, is there any, you know,certain experiences that really
stick out to you?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Absolutely.
Um, you know, when I firststarted, well, you know, go back
to the tools, uh, you know,being a roofer and then coming
into the carpenters, you know, Ikind of thought I, I, you know,
be able to just jump right inthere and no sweat.
I mean, I, wouldn't strong,young, not afraid of Heights,
uh, you know, could handle ahammer and, and other other
(10:13):
tools and things of that natureor saw.
And, uh, I got dumped on adrywall job and I had never
really done dry walls.
So I don't know if you canimagine somebody.
And I was tucked in the back ofthe Taj Mahal, you know, in the
back Carter's where they weredoing triple layer, dry wall.
And the screws were like two anda half inches long.
(10:33):
So starting out in thatenvironment, you know, on your
first day, it was a littleintimidating, but, uh, being
that I, you know, worked withtools and I, and I had a good
construction background, Istarted picking it up pretty
fast and, uh, became a reallygood interior systems carpenter,
thanks to the journeymen that Ihad to work with.
(10:55):
And, you know, they were, uh,although back then, they used to
torture the apprentices a bit,but they were very helpful in
teaching us the craft.
You know, that's, that'ssomething that we're definitely
getting away from is, uh, youknow, the, the old school where
the hazing that used to takeplace, if you will, you know,
it's something that we'redefinitely, uh, turning a corner
(11:16):
and, and trying to avoid that,especially with the millennials
black, uh, you know, I'm a gen Xor, and, and that's how it was.
And it was a great experience.
I got to learn interior systems.
Um, I got to learn some finishwork, uh, some I, and then I got
to get really good at and learnconcrete work and high rises.
I worked, uh, on several of thecasino additions, as well as the
(11:38):
tunnel and some bridges.
So it was a very well roundedexperience where I got to learn
how to multitask and diversifymy skills.
Um, I got to see the ups anddowns, the cyclical nature of
the business, you know, throughbooms and busts in the economy
and, uh, got to learn howimportant it was to have a good
(12:01):
reputation and be extremelyproductive if you want to make a
good living.
And, uh, you know, if you've gotcontractors that always want to
try to get you on board, thenyou know, you're gonna make it
through thick and thin.
So that was a great experience.
And then, you know, becoming a,uh, a representative was kind of
like starting all over again,because you got to imagine, you
(12:24):
know, I guess a 32 year old, Iwas working on concrete at the
time, you know, bolt bag andSpud, branch and formal, and,
you know, just, just getting it.
We had, uh, we had 50 foot by 30foot gang forms on the tunnel
that weighed 30 tons.
And I was on that gang.
(12:44):
I was a signal man and in theshop steward.
And then next thing, you know,I'm walking into an office
trying to figure out what to dowith a fax machine.
So it's kinda funny to me, don'teven use those things anymore.
But, uh, so I struggled a littlebit for a short time in the
office, just getting the hang of, uh, you know, wearing a tie
(13:05):
and, uh, you know, it wasn't alloffice work.
Obviously I was out in the fieldorganizing and going on job
sites and turning jobs aroundand, you know, uh, gaining
market share for our local andour members.
But I think the best thing is Ialways had the mindset that you
got to learn something new everyday, no matter how experienced
(13:26):
you are, there's always somebodyout there that's going to
probably teach us something.
And then, uh, you know, as, as Iget older now and move up in
ranks in the position, you startto notice that, uh, you know,
you gotta actually be able toconvey that same energy back to
the people that are working foryou so that they can learn.
(13:49):
And you got to give them theopportunities to have failures
and success at the same time.
It's the only way people aregoing to learn.
So that's kinda like mymanagement style.
Um, I surround myself with agreat team, my, my leadership
team, everybody else, I expectthem to work hard.
This is not just a job.
(14:10):
It's more of a lifestyle.
I can honestly say.
I probably log about 3000 hoursplus a year.
And I don't expect everybody todo that.
That's what I have to do with mytravels and everything else
that's going on, but I expect mypeople to work hard for the
membership and, you know, wehave a great team and, uh, I'm
(14:32):
not afraid to surround myselfwith people that may even be
smarter than I am, especiallywith the technology stuff we, we
need, uh, folks that are, thatare great, uh, organizing things
and great with the computertechnology.
I I've been learning that as Igo.
And, uh, you know, I'm, I'mdoing okay with it.
(14:54):
I, I, I do read my emails, whichis something in this day and
age.
I never, I never imagined thatemails would be like the, the
worst thing that you have todeal with in work.
But just to give you an example,I come back from a vacation and
I have over a thousand of thethings.
So, and I do read them, uh, someof the guys that have my job
(15:19):
just basically say, you know,they, they leave it up to other
folks to track them down aboutthe important emails and all
that stuff.
But for whatever reason, I'm aglutton for punishment.
Uh, I, you know, I stay on topof things and, uh, try to
multitask and try to lead thisorganization the best I can, but
I honestly gotta say it used tobe, I used to say a hundred
(15:42):
phone calls, suck the life outhere.
And that's when I was, uh, a newbusiness agent, dispatching
members to work and fieldingphone calls and taking care of
problems.
But now it's, uh, you know, I'dlove to have maybe half those
phone calls and maybe half lessthe emails that I deal with.
And I think the world would be abetter place
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Bill.
You're not alone in that becauseI can say definitively, I feel
your pain.
Uh, um, uh, that email volume isabout the same for me.
So I, I hear ya.
Um, th thank you for thatintroduction to yourself and
letting our listeners understanda little bit more about bill as
John put it.
But I, from my experience in thepast, working with, with the KML
(16:29):
, uh, you know, we did website,we did newsletters, we did some
other things, presentations andhelping on the political side.
Uh, I know personally that thecarpenters have some issues that
you want to rectify.
Can you talk a little bit aboutsome of those issues and, uh,
(16:49):
how that's affecting the, thevision and the direction that
you're taking to
Speaker 2 (16:55):
In the future abs absolutely.
John, uh, I think that thenumber one issue facing not only
the carpenters, but many othertrades in the construction
industry is a misclassification,uh, the underground economy tax
fraud in the constructionindustry.
And, and it mostly pertains toprivate sector.
(17:17):
Uh, in some States you, you seeit even in the public sector,
work in the prevailing wagewhere there's a lax enforcement
of, of the rags and laws.
But when you look at the amountof construction workers that are
working off the books, justthink about every one of those
construction workers working offthe books, there's, there's
(17:41):
multiple victims and, you know,average people from other
occupations do not realize thatthey're victims of this as well.
And basically what happens iswhen you have a workforce that's
not helping contribute intolocal, uh, state County taxes,
(18:02):
federal taxes, and things ofthat nature creates less
opportunities for young peoplethat want to move into the
construction trade.
Um, not to mention legitimatecontractors that have small,
medium and large size businessesthat, uh, have, you know, made
their bones in this industry areunder siege by this problem,
(18:25):
because there's, there's no wayto compete when a developer or
an end user or somebody decidesthat a would rather not use
union labor to try to save a fewbucks.
And the bottom line is that thegeneral contractors that use the
unscrupulous subcontractorsthat, you know, that operate in
(18:48):
this manner still make a ton ofmoney.
Margins are off the charts forthe subs, because they're not
paying proper workman's comp,they're not paying taxes, and
they're exploiting a workforcewhere they're violating state
and federal laws, you know,labor laws and things of that
nature.
(19:09):
And it's something that is anepidemic in some States.
And in other States, it's kindof just been growing and
growing.
And I'm going to say, you know,30 years ago, 30, some years ago
when I was a roofer, you neverreally saw too much of this, not
even with the home builders.
And, but then it startedhappening in the residential
(19:31):
industry.
And then I think when thehousing bust took place, uh, you
know, before the great recessionand everything, that's when it
really took off in thecommercial industry where these
unscrupulous subcontractors and,you know, developers and people
that are looking to cut cornersand make more money on their
(19:51):
investments and save money wouldrather, you know, go down that
path then and use a legitimatecontractor that pays their
workers, fair wages, benefits,and it's, it's just devastating
to the industry.
And if, if it keeps goingunchecked and keeps growing, uh,
we have a real battle on ourhands.
(20:13):
I deal with this, uh, you know,the DC Virginia market and the
Maryland markets are ravaged bythis practice.
Uh, New Jersey probably hasabout 35 to 40,000 construction
workers.
They are working off the books.
We're, we're starting to see itin places like Jersey city and
up in, you know, up in the big,uh, big, you know, urban areas
(20:36):
now where multimillion dollarprojects are being done with
crews that are second, thirdtier subcontractors off the
books, and we're trying to getstate government to up.
We know right now, federal,government's not going to do
much about it.
They've been watering down theIRS ever since, uh, you know,
going back probably two or threepresidents ago.
(20:59):
And, you know, it's, it'ssomething that this is our
battle cry.
We, we did rallies last year inmultiple locations on a tax day,
April 15th, and we're gearing upto do it again.
And we're going to continue toeducate the public, um, you
know, elected officials andanyone we can about this issue
(21:21):
and how it affects everybody.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Absolutely.
It's a, it's a huge issue.
And I proudly stood with my, uh,carpenter friends at some of
those rallies spoke at some ofthe rallies, uh, testified
alongside the carpenters.
Uh, I just got to commend youfor the you and your staff and
your people are doing anexcellent job shedding light on
this very serious issue.
So Bravo to you, keep it up.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Thank you very much, John.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah.
Uh, any other big, ah, bigissues that you guys are looking
at?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Absolutely.
You know, the, uh, industryapprenticeships that, uh, the
United States department oflabor and, and president Trump
I've been, you know,considering, and there was
actually a period of time whereyou could, you could write in
and comment on, uh, you know,what you're you as an individual
(22:14):
or an organization thought aboutthat stuff.
And, uh, I know there washundreds of thousands of
responses.
Uh, we were very proactive.
Uh, I have, uh, seven jointapprentice training funds that
I, I co-chair throughout ourcouncil.
And we had every, one of ourtraining directors, uh, help
weigh in on the issue.
(22:36):
And we, we created a, uh, aresponse that was kind of a
collaboration throughout thecouncil on why this should not
happen in the constructionindustry.
And, you know, when you look atsome of the apprentice programs
that have been active outsideof, of the union traits and, and
(22:58):
ours in particular, the, the UBC, you know, the carpenter
apprentice programs, they're,they're very watered down.
Um, there was no clear, uh,there's no clear way of
identifying whether or notpeople are actually fulfilling
their obligations with theiractual training.
(23:20):
And they're on the job traininghours and things of that nature.
And quite frankly, there waslittle or no data out there that
actually proves that there'seven graduations and folks that
are succeeding on to becomingjourney folks.
Uh, on the other hand, when youlook at our stuff, it's very
regimented it's, um, dollarburned either by, you know, the
(23:43):
States or, or by the bat, theBureau of apprenticeship
training.
And I had came through theprogram and I'm extremely proud
that I did.
And I think it's a shame that,you know, there's forces out
there that, that want to waterthis down and allow the same
contractors that I was talkingabout earlier that practice
(24:03):
payroll fraud and cheat day inand day out to actually
insinuate that they have anapprentice program and have
apprentices on their projectsthat they're trying to mentor
and help them become journeypeople and create a long lasting
career for them because it'stotal BS.
I mean, it's absurd, but, uh,you know, we just have to keep
(24:27):
fighting the fight.
Our, our adversaries think that,you know, because of what's
going on down in Washingtonright now, and the
administration that, you know,they they've got the upper hand,
but the reality is, you know,there's, there's nothing better
than a union apprenticeship inthis country when it comes to
trades, especially when it comesto carpenters, millwrights, dock
(24:50):
builders, floor layers, and aperfect example of that is
yesterday.
When I was out at the shellCracker plant, um, the
contractor out there, it's anoffshoot of Bechtel, which
everybody knows they're huge, uh, you know, multinational
contractor.
They actually work all over theworld, but, uh, the, the
(25:13):
contractor called great arrowbuilders, which is the signatory
that is employing a lot of ourfolks out there and self
performing, a lot of differentthings.
I decide from the scaffold.
We have scaffoldedsubcontractors out there with,
there was over 1100 workers onthat site right now that are UBC
members, carpenters,millwrights, scaffold builders,
(25:35):
there's 240 apprentices on thatsite.
And when I tell you what anorganized well-run efficient,
safe job site, that was to tourthat yesterday and be down in
the labyrinths of, of a five,$6billion project, it was totally
amazing.
(25:56):
And what I heard from talking tosome of the folks, some of our
people was that a similarproject had recently been built,
I guess, over the past five oreight years down in Louisiana.
And it was the same type of aproject.
And it was before they wereconsidering coming up into this
(26:16):
area and doing, doing theCracker plant.
And basically there's, there'smilestones that have been met on
this project where we'veabsolutely out shined the
performance of the workers downin Louisiana.
That was a, an open shop job.
(26:37):
And although, you know, peoplemay not come out and admit it
from, you know, from thecorporate world and all that
stuff.
They, you know, it's, it'sleaking out there that man, you
know, the folks in Western PAthat are on that project and all
the traveling, uh, trades peoplefrom the carpenter's union and
(26:57):
all the other unions that areout there building that
magnificent facility are doing aknockdown job.
I, I mean, it's, it's incrediblethe, the praise that they're
getting, the safety record,things of that nature.
So, you know, we just have tokeep making sure that we are
promoting what we really are.
(27:18):
You know, we are, we are thebest in the business where
we're, well-trained we'reprofessionals.
We, um, we promote ongoingtraining and journeymen upgrade,
and there should be no reasonwhy any, uh, medium or large
construction site should everconsider not using those types
(27:41):
of workers to build theirbuildings or their facilities or
whatever, whatever it is thatthey're constructing
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Amen to that well said.
Yeah.
I, uh, you know, I, I do a lotof outreach to, uh, the clients
and the end users, you know,promoting our contractor.
And when asked about theworkforce, I, a common word I
always use is spoiled.
I said, our contractors arespoiled because of the
(28:11):
carpenters that we employ on ourjob sites, you know, what the
quality construction safety,either reliable drug free and
just, just a world class, youknow, best training program.
So, you know, we're spoiled.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for spoiling uscontractors.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Absolutely done.
You know, I want to give youanother quick example.
Something just popped into myhead.
That is a perfect real lifeexample of you get what you pay
for.
Um, there's a project thatunfortunately went open shop
down on the, uh, the coast downin Monmouth County.
(28:50):
It's in, uh, Asbury park.
And it's an it's, it's one ofthe types of projects that, uh,
I actually get pretty upset whenmy team tells me, Oh, well,
sorry, boss.
You know, that, that one's notus.
It's, uh, you know, it wentnon-union and you know, we've,
we've been doing investigations.
(29:10):
The project might not even bedone yet.
It's probably four, four yearsin the making, or maybe they're
close.
They're probably gonna try toturn key it maybe by this
summer, but it's, uh, it's alarge, uh, probably like a 22
story condominium buildingrather large.
And, and they went in there and,you know, they, they they've
been pecking away at this thing.
(29:31):
And as you know, time is money.
So they got very unscrupulous,low budget contractors in there
to, to get their best pricepoints.
But when it came to the interiorsystems piece, they had hired
someone, you know, that we knowis, is, is no good.
And, you know, basically hirespeople off the books and then
hires the third tier subs.
(29:53):
You hire people that just showup and, you know, it's just a
real, you know, real mess, a hotmess.
Well, the interior guys had allthe doors and hardware as well
in their contract.
And I learned, I guess about sixmonths ago that one of our
signatory contractors thatspecializes in doors and
(30:16):
hardware had to go in on a, wewon't even call it a punch list
because it was basically everydoor, every piece of hardware in
this whole building.
And I'm probably talking about400 plus condominiums that are
in this place.
(30:37):
They had to go into this siteand practically fix everything.
And, you know, my point is, youknow, we do it right the first
time the punch lists are veryminimal.
Time is money and you get whatyou pay for.
And I'm actually going to followback up and try to find out from
our subcontractor, you know, howmany hours they logged, fixing
(31:01):
every one of those doors and inthis multimillion dollar mid
rise building, and hopefullyutilize that as, as a poster
child, you know, for developersand end users to certainly
consider hiring the rightcontractors that use the best
labor force in the industry todo their projects.
(31:23):
Yes, indeed.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you don't mind sharing any,any sort of, uh, uh, case
studies that you have, you know,I'm always promoting the
contractors, like I saidearlier.
Um, but yeah, I've, uh,thoroughly enjoyed the
discussion, like to keep it up.
And, um, Chris, do you haveanything you want to add?
Oh, bill, this has been great.
It's been a great chance to getto know you a little bit more
(31:45):
and hear your, uh, you know,your, your work style and the
approach that you bring.
So thank you very much.
I'm, I'm pretty sure ourlisteners are going to be very
happy and, uh, hopefully you'llbe hearing from a, a lot of the
KCA members and even other, uh,other folks in the construction
industry in the future.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Sure.
Thank you, Chris.
Absolutely.
I look forward to it.
Uh, guys, I, I got one morething I want to bring to your
attention, John.
I haven't been able to talk toyou about this only because I
seems like I get a little breakand then I'm shot out of a
cannon and then, you know, allthe races again, I think, you
know, being on seven health andwelfare pension funds, you know,
(32:25):
kind of keeps me busy everyquarter alone, but we just
developed a new departmentwithin, um, you know, KML and
now Eastern Atlantic Statescalled industry and labor
compliance.
And I have them working hand inhand with our political
department, our communicationsdepartment and our organizing
(32:47):
department.
I'm starting to commingle thesegroups into one unit.
That'll basically also work witheach region, you know, like the
guys out in Lebanon and up inScranton and out in
Duncansville, Pittsburgh,Philadelphia, you name it.
But, uh, we did case studies onevery state within our council
(33:09):
and we know what the laws are onthe books against the
unscrupulous contractors, aswell as the prevailing wage
laws.
And the new gentleman that Ihired for this department is
very well versed.
And he's already conducted acouple of hundred forensic
audits and we've filedcomplaints with various
department of labor.
(33:29):
Um, primarily started off in NewJersey cause that's where he was
very familiar with issues, but Ihave him now educating my teams
in Pennsylvania and working withL and I, how to Harrisburg.
Um, we're, we're looking atMaryland, we're looking at
Delaware, we're looking at DC,Virginia, but you're going to
hear more and more about this.
And we're trying to plansomething right now.
(33:51):
And I guess I'm going to have tobreak this up into regions, but,
uh, we would like to invite thecontractors to come in, meet us
and hear about what we're doingwith this new department.
So I, once I can figure out whenwe might be able to schedule
something, instead of doingmultiple I'm thinking, maybe we
have, you know, John, yourassociation come in, maybe I'll
(34:14):
invite the guys, you know, from,uh, from the Pittsburgh area and
as well as maybe we'll do it inPhiladelphia and Ben Connors and
YMCA, and all those folks willcome in.
And, uh, we'd like to share withyou some of the stuff that
we're, we're building here,that's going to be a very
powerful, excuse me, as well ashelp us fight, you know, this
(34:39):
issue that we have at hand.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Sounds amazing.
That sounds awesome.
I'm looking forward to hearingmore about it and meeting this
gentleman.
And, uh, I can tell youfirsthand, whenever I discuss
this topic about laborcompliance and labor issues with
the contractors, and I tell themwhat the carpenters are doing.
Uh, at first there was a littlehesitation, like, are you sure
(35:02):
they're doing all this?
You know, but, but now they heardirectly from the reps and they
know that yes, you guys aredoing a lot on the issue.
And, uh, and we're, we're readyto work with you more on the
issue.
So yeah, it's, it's, uh, veryexciting for us.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah.
I think you're going to see alot in the next six months with
regards to this, uh, you know,it used to be, you know, some of
the representatives were prettytenacious with this kind of
stuff, but it was very limited.
And I set out to try to start toeducate them and, you know, it's
almost like not enough time in aday.
You know, a lot of these guysfeel like they're multitasking,
(35:39):
but by having this specificdepartment now that can help,
uh, do a lot of theadministrative work and a lot of
the tedious stuff that has to bedone in order to file a proper
complaint.
Uh, we're we're up and running.
And, uh, you know, I can tellthe unscrupulous contractors, uh
, with, with all sincerity that,uh, we're coming to a town near,
(36:02):
you
Speaker 3 (36:03):
Let's do this.
I'm excited.
I can imagine there's going tobe a few, uh, unscrupulous, uh,
contractors shaking a little bithere.
Cause this the force of thecarpenters coming after him, it
was going to be quiteimpressive.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah.
We've already got that going on.
Actually, we've, we've actuallysigned a couple of outfits that
were, uh, ABC affiliates over inJersey because of this endeavor.
So, you know, they, uh, theydecided to come over from the
dark side.
So I'm really looking forward tothis program.
Well, bill, thank you
Speaker 3 (36:35):
For a given us the time today.
Um, uh, I appreciate you, uh,helping us understand a little
bit more about the EAs and thetransition that you're going
through and, uh, look forward tomany more conversations here on
building PA podcast.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Gentlemen, I appreciate youhaving me this morning and have
a wonderful week rest of theweek and we're going to get off
to the rest of our business thatwe have out here in the lovely
town of Pittsburgh.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Have a good day.
Bye bye.
Bye.
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