November 4, 2025 • 36 mins
This week, I sit down with executive leadership coach Sarah Gibbons, founder of Sarah Gibbons & Company, to talk about what it really means to lead with depth, connection, and courage.
We unpack the outdated definitions of leadership that still dominate corporate spaces, and how women can redefine power, purpose, and presence on their own terms.
Sarah shares her journey from Amazon and MySpace executive to founder of a global coaching practice, and we dig into hard work vs hustle, leading from values vs expectations, and so much more.
If you’ve ever been labeled “too ambitious,” “too much,” or “too direct,” this conversation will remind you that your voice, your values, and your vision belong at the center of your leadership.
Guest Bio:
Sarah Gibbons is an executive leadership coach and founder of Sarah Gibbons & Co., a global coaching practice devoted to helping individuals and organizations lead with depth, connection, and courage. With 15+ years of experience, she’s worked with visionary leaders at companies like Goodby, Silverstein & Partners, Wieden + Kennedy, Weitz Foundation, The LA Clippers, TBWA\Chiat\Day, BMO Bank and more.
She’s the co-author of The Chalk Collective: Drawing the Life You Deserve and co-host of The Tidal Podcast. A mother of three boys and a proud Pacific Palisades resident, Sarah draws strength and insight from her personal experiences, especially in the wake of the devastating fires that touched her community.
At the heart of Sarah’s work is a belief: leadership is personal. She helps her clients unlock aliveness, build self-trust, and lead with a legacy that reflects who they truly are.
Connect with Sarah:
- Instagram / www.instagram.com/sarahgibbonsco
- Facebook / www.facebook.com/sarahgibbons.co
- LinkedIn / www.linkedin.com/in/sarahlyonsgibbons/
- Website / sarahgibbons.com
If you want to work with Sarah, this is your shot: applications are now open for The Board — her exclusive leadership coaching experience for creatives, entrepreneurs, and executives. Kicking off February 2026 with just 8 seats, this is a rare chance to be coached, challenged, and championed by one of North America’s top leadership coaches. Apply now!
- The Board Website to Learn More: https://sarahgibbons.com/the-board
- Link to Apply: https://hkywt25a0g5.typeform.com/to/ADX8567Z
Love what you heard? Let’s stay connected!
Subscribe to my newsletter for bold insights on leadership, strategy, and building your legacy — straight to your inbox every week.
Follow me on LinkedIn for more no-nonsense advice on leading with power and purpose.
And if you’re ready to dive even deeper, grab a copy of my book Bite-Sized Blasphemy and ignite your inner fire to do life and business your way.
The Business Blasphemy Podcast is sponsored by NYSH Strategic and Sarah Khan Out Loud.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome to this space where bold truths, real
strategies, and unfilteredstories fuel ambitious women who
want more power, leadership, andlegacy on their turn.
Because in common circles, awoman doing what she wants, how
she wants, and winning is ablasphemist.
Welcome to Business Blasphemy.
(00:24):
Hello, hello, blasphemers.
Welcome back.
This is Business Blasphemy,where we dismantle the rules of
business and leadership soambitious women can lead on
their own terms.
I am Sarah Kahn, speaker,leadership strategist, and your
ever-blasphemous host.
I'm very pleased to have one ofmy new friends on the podcast
(00:45):
today, Sarah Gibbons.
She is an executive leadershipcoach and founder of Sarah
Gibbons and Company, a globalcoaching practice devoted to
helping individuals andorganizations made with depth,
connection, and courage.
We, as always, when I haveguests on the show, we started
having a really greatconversation offline.
And I wanted to like, no, wegotta have this online.
(01:06):
So, Sarah, welcome.
This is the first time I've hadanother Sarah on the show, so
it's actually kind of cool.
Um, my first question that I Ikind of ask everybody is can you
give me like the Coles notes ofyour villain origin story?
Like, how did you come to beingyour own boss and having your
own business?
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Absolutely.
First of all, uh thank you somuch for having me.
And so cool that you also spellyour name with an H.
But more than anything, it isthe only way to s to spell it.
Uh, but I really, when I whenyou and I first talked a few
months ago, it was post uh thefires in LA and I'm in LA, and I
was so struck by how much of aconnection I felt to you, both
(01:49):
professionally and also as a asa mom to mom.
So I'm really I'm delighted tobe here and really honored to be
in your community.
So thank you for having me.
Okay, what'd you call it?
My villain, my villain, villainorigin story.
Yeah, my villain origin story.
Uh well, let's see.
I started a little company.
I didn't start a little, Istarted at a little company
called Amazon in 2000.
(02:10):
And at the time, there was thisother guy there named John
Gibbons, who now has been myhusband for 18 years.
And he and I started uh reallywhat was the early days of their
online advertising.
And I loved it for many reasons,because I loved the fast pace, I
loved to travel.
But very quickly, throughworking there for a few years
(02:32):
and then going over and helpingmanage a team over at a little
social media company calledMySpace, I quickly realized that
something was off in my heartthat I really, even though I
loved the travel, I loved thepeople I was working with, I
loved the fast pace of it, itwas lacking a purpose for me.
(02:54):
And so, long story short, we'dmoved to London.
And when we came back afterworking in London for a few
years, I went back to school andgot my master's in spiritual
psychology that I had beenworking with a coach at the
time.
And that really opened up mydoors to this idea of working
with teams, working withindividuals, centered around
(03:15):
leadership.
And I just noticed that Istarted to feel at home with the
work and more fulfilled.
And I think I've always knownthat I was meant to be an
entrepreneur because I've neverliked working for anybody else.
I've I've had amazing bossesthat I still keep in touch with,
but even in my early days atAmazon at 24, I was like, hey,
(03:35):
I'd like to take a sabbatical.
They're like, You've been herefor a year and a half.
We've never had anyone ask that.
And I did, I took a sabbaticaland went to New York.
So I've always kind of beat tomy own drum.
And I also love to make money.
And I the sky's the limit whenyou're an entrepreneur.
I really saw that as anopportunity more than anything.
So I've had my business now forover 15 years, and I love what I
(03:56):
do.
I love my people, I love thework.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
So tell me a little bit about what you do.
Because I mean, one of thethings that has has become more
and more important to me as thebusiness has evolved and as like
the podcast has evolved and thebrand and everything is the idea
of everybody talks aboutleadership.
I know a lot of leadershipcoaches and a lot of leadership
consultants and strategists, butthey seem to kind of still be
(04:20):
working from the same hymn sheetof the old, you know, seven
models of leadership that menhave been told to follow in
order to be, you know, strongleaders, powerful leaders,
whatever.
What is different about the wayyou see leadership from the way
it's been traditionally done ortaught to us?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
That's a that's a great question.
And you're right, we still tothis day are taught often that
leadership looks like a title,or it looks like you know, you
make a certain amount of money.
I fundamentally believe that allof us are leaders.
And leaders, as long as we arebreathing schools and session
and the way in which we show upand and be both in our core, but
(05:01):
also the actions that we take,that's our leadership.
And so I spend a lot of my timewith my clients, number one,
helping them remember howpowerful they are.
So we do a lot of workontologically looking at their
way of being.
And I think what I've found atthe end of the day is to your
point, a lot of people talkabout leadership, but what is
(05:21):
the actual experience ofleadership?
What is the impact that you haveon yourself, on people around
you?
Are you creating the impact thatyou want to have?
And are you taking ownership ofyour impact?
And the one thing I've reallynoticed with the people that I
coach, there's definitely avalue set.
(05:42):
You know, it's people who verymuch care about growth.
They're constant learners, theycare about connection, they care
about purpose and impact.
They also really care abouthaving fun.
And one of the things that Ithink we've been taught a lot is
that the higher you grow inleadership, the more
responsibility you take on, andthe more demanding it is, this
(06:02):
whole idea of like hustle.
Not to be confused with hardwork.
There is not an ounce in me thatever wants to go hustle.
I'm turning 50 next year.
I have three teenage boys, Ihave a marriage, I don't want to
be hustling.
I will work hard.
And I've seen that with myclients.
And so a lot of the work that Ido, there's there's definitely
(06:23):
people come to me with tangiblegoals, whether it be financial
goals, whether it be executivepresence, whether it be
launching a business becausethey're moving from corporate
into being an entrepreneur.
But the piece that I hold sacredas much as the end result is
what is the experience that youare going to have along the way?
(06:43):
Because we all know that you canget to the end of the line, you
can graduate from a school, youcan get the job that you thought
you wanted, or you can buy thecar, you can buy a house.
But if your experience along theway left you feeling
disconnected to yourself, toothers, unfulfilled, or just not
experiencing a level of joy,then what's it all for anyway?
(07:04):
So yeah, that's a very sort ofroundabout way of saying, you
know, I do help people rememberhow powerful they are and have
the experience that they'reultimately wanting to have along
the way.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
I love that.
I think I I wrote down what yousaid, you know, what is the
actual experience of leadership?
And I don't think that issomething enough or any people
really consider.
No.
Whether it's, you know, mentorsor leaders themselves,
particularly women.
A lot of the advice that we getin the leadership space, I mean,
most, I mean, most people thatI've talked to, leadership means
(07:37):
we are the boss, we are managingpeople.
There's really nocontextualization of what
leadership is supposed to looklike, what it can look like.
You've worked with a lot of uhhigh-level leaders in executive
positions.
What is some of the most harmfulleadership advice that you see
kind of recycled in thoseexecutive spaces?
I I was in corporate for anumber of years, almost.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Oh man.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
What is what's some of the more harmful leadership
advice you've you've seen, andwhy do you think it still gets
treated as truth?
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Gosh, it's so funny.
I'm so trained to be inpossibility.
That's the way my brain thinks.
It doesn't mean that I don'tlose hope.
But I'm I have to say, I'mhaving to like dig deep a little
bit for this.
But I would I if I reverse thisin my in my mind, one of the
things I particularly see withwomen is a challenge of speaking
(08:30):
up and speaking their truthbecause they will be known as a
bitch.
Yep.
Hand out.
And right?
I mean, I think we all canrelate to that.
I don't know why, you know, I,you know, a lot of my
girlfriends uh are incrediblyhardworking.
You know, like I said, I'malmost 50, so we've been in the
work world for quite some timeand they hold senior positions
(08:52):
or they've been entrepreneursfor a long time.
And I'm sure if I asked them,every single one of them would
say, Oh, yeah, there's beenplenty of times when I have uh
gotten feedback in a formalreview or just subtly that I'm
because I'm voicing my opinion,because I'm being passionate
about something, that I amcoming across as a bitch.
(09:12):
And that is such a detriment.
And I do think there's a doublestandard here.
And so where I see this show upwith my clients is you know,
women, just like men, bringsomething totally extraordinary
to the table that that mendon't.
And so for women to silencethemselves or dumb or dim their
(09:35):
ideas and not share their fullbreadth and light of who they
are, yeah.
One, it does a disservice toeverybody else.
It's also actually reallyselfish on their part because
every single person hassomething unique to offer.
And so, you know, I think thisis something that is still very
much, I see it in certainindustries, obviously more than
(09:56):
others.
You know, I coach executives andfinance and a lot of creative,
obviously, and based in LA.
But I see, I really do see atech, I see it all over the
place.
But I do think it is, I thinkit's a real challenge.
And it's something that we aswomen, it's not a weakness, but
I do find it's a muscle that,you know, being coached around
and ensuring that we are usingour voices and that we are, and
(10:20):
that we're not afraid toarticulate thoughts when they're
not fully baked and to say thething.
And then the cool thing aboutleadership is that, you know, I
really try to operate from thisthat, you know, progress over
perfection.
And the cool thing aboutleadership is you can always
come out of leadership and comeback in.
It's not like we're always on inthe sense of trying to get it
(10:42):
right.
You know, if I make a mistake onsomething or I say something to
my team, I can say, hold on, Ican tell by your faces this
didn't come out the way I wantedit to.
Let me read, let me try thisagain.
And that's a so I really workingwith a lot of my female clients
to practice what it's like toone, be connected to your to
your authentic voice, to expressyour authentic voice and to take
(11:04):
yourselves a little bit lessserious in the sense of it's
okay to make mistakes and not toconfuse owning your power with
this idea that you're then abitch.
I mean, I'm 5'10, I've gottenthis my whole life.
You know, you you you can beintimidating, sir, when you walk
into a room.
Okay.
And for a long time, I wouldkind of dress a certain way, not
(11:28):
to like, I didn't want to takeup too much.
And then I got to a point whereI was like, you're not be
worrying about this.
This is nuts.
That sounds like a you problem,not a me problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
So yeah, I think, you know, Ithink that's a very I mean
there's so many, but that onecomes to mind right away.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
Yeah, and and I I'm sure lots of people have had
that experience.
I certainly have.
I've been called aggressive,I've been called a bitch, I've
been called like so many things.
And I've actually had that thatsame feedback of like, you know,
you need you're you're being tooambitious.
Like me going into um a meeting.
I I remember um my boss had sentaround an email because we were,
you know, shuffling thedepartment.
(12:04):
And he said, you know, there'ssome positions coming up.
Email me, let me know which onesthat you're you're interested in
being considered for.
And so I emailed him.
I said, I would really love tobe considered for this one
position.
It was an advisory position.
And he called me into his officethe next morning and I said, you
know, I was like, oh, okay,maybe I'm gonna I'm gonna get it
or we're gonna talk about it.
And he said, the advisory role?
I said, yeah.
(12:25):
He says, it's a little ambitiousfor you, isn't it?
And I'm like, I have been herefor nine years.
Like, what what's what's theproblem with that?
Like, I'm the highest ratedperson in the department, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it was outside of the scopethat he saw me within.
Right.
And at the time, there was a lotof, oh, okay, you know, you're
(12:48):
you're the boss, you must knowbetter.
I mean, I it didn't feel right,but there was the deferring
because I I wasn't confidentenough in myself to say,
actually, you're incorrect.
Like I I wasn't nearly strongenough or courageous enough to
do it at that time.
Looking back on it now, I knowexactly what it was.
I know the job went to a dude,he was less senior than me.
(13:09):
Like it it was as you wouldexpect it to play out.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
And now I look back and I think to myself, all you
can see like all of the timeswhere I deferred because I
didn't fit the role somebodyelse perceived me in.
And I see so many women doingthat, not just as women in
leadership spaces in formalemployment, but I see it a lot
(13:33):
in the entrepreneurial space aswell.
Like you're coming in as anexpert in your area, in your
subject matter, but somebody whocomes in with their subject
matter expertise.
Like you, you, for example, youknow, if you're an operations
expert or a strategy expert, butyou don't have a lot of
expertise in marketing, there'sthis almost um like this this
(13:55):
impulse to not push back whenwhen you know something doesn't
feel right because they're theexpert.
So that that self-leadershippiece is still lacking in a lot
of people, I find.
And it's it's not you know,through any fault of their own.
It's just, I think it's how weare conditioned, particularly as
women.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Uh a hundred percent.
And this idea, I mean, I hearthis even with uh, you know,
coaches that I've worked withwho have been coaches, you know,
for as long as I have, if notlonger, that sense of imposture
syndrome, as if somehow we haveto know everything.
You know, I do see it in in men,but more so in women, this this
(14:33):
working towards rather thanexcellence perfection.
And that's a real, yeah, it's atotal trap.
unknown (14:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
And it makes us doubt ourselves.
I have a question.
So earlier you talked abouthustle.
I mean, I'm super anti-hustle,so I'm glad that you're as well.
Yeah.
We're both moms, we both havekids in school, we have teens.
I I have a teen and a and alittle.
And I understand that there is amarked difference between hustle
and hard work, but how do youbalance hard work with success
(15:03):
when you are a mom too?
Because I feel like we're stillin that space of like choose one
or the other, you can't haveboth.
Or yeah, you've got to say asacrifice element.
Like how, so how do you balancethat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Yeah.
Such a good question, Sarah.
And I want to honor, I want toanswer this as truthfully and
transparently as I know how.
I think for me, first of all, Ihave three boys.
So when I had that third boy, Iquickly realized, okay, this is
I'm outnumbered and I'm gonnahave to, this is not if I wanted
(15:36):
to hustle, it's just it's notgonna happen.
And we had our boys all veryclose together.
So what I have learned is thatintentionality it goes much
further than hustle.
And so, in a very practicalworld, what this looks like is I
got clear for me.
And I'm speaking as someone whohas an established business.
(15:57):
So I think it's a little bitdifferent when you when you're
starting your business and it'snot quite as easily defined.
So I figured out for me, inorder to really be intentional
and have the experience I wantto have, both as a mom and as a
coach and entrepreneur, that forme, no more than four coaching
(16:19):
calls a day, ideally, preferablythree, because sometimes those
are team calls, sometimesthey're individuals.
So I got really clear on that.
That gets on the calendar.
I got really clear that if Idon't work out in the morning,
it doesn't happen.
I'm not an evening person.
I also got really clear that itis important to me to make my
kids breakfast and to be withthem, to be present for
(16:40):
breakfast.
And so that's on the calendar.
What I have learned over time isthat the harder things to fit in
are new business development,because that requires a
different kind of thinking.
So if I only have an hourscheduled in between calls to
jump into outreach or research,that can be a little
(17:01):
challenging.
So I've had to flex thosemuscles and learn how to be
because I used to be like well,I need to have at least two
hours.
If I don't have two hours, I'mnot gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Nope, that's not always the choice.
So I've had to learn new skills,how to flex and um train myself
essentially.
All that to be said, I have alsogotten very crystal clear on
what is most important to me.
My husband and my children'swell-being and my own well-being
(17:30):
is number one.
And then my clients come second.
So I was sharing with you thismorning one of my boys.
We switched schools this year,and it's a second day, and he
woke up with just paralyzedfear, didn't want to go to
school today.
Yeah, we've been down this roadbefore, so we're not, you know,
it's not our first rodeo, but itstill I realized in that moment,
(17:53):
okay, this might be a day whereI might have to make some shifts
professionally.
And I waited to see, like I waslike, I really want to have this
call with Sarah.
I have a two-hour call uh withmy board right after this.
Uh, I have another call afterthat.
Uh, but I'm gonna just hold onthat for a minute and I'm gonna
put my energy here.
So there's also some letting goof expectations.
(18:14):
I think we, as particularly aswell, I would say working dads
as well, but I'm just I want tospeak to our community, your
community here, working moms.
I am very clear on my values.
And I think the more intentionalI am, and when I start to lose
sight of my North Starthroughout the day, I can go
back to and go, well, whatmatters most to me?
Family, being of service.
(18:36):
So that's showing up for myclients in a way that I can put
my head on my pillow at nightand know that I am integrity
with them.
And then, and then the rest ofmy values.
And so I think where peoplereally struggle, and I don't
think balance is a real thing.
I think it's more like this ideaof work-life wholeness and and
architect you know, being thearchitect of a day that really
(18:58):
works for you and different dayslook differently.
But I do think the more thatpeople can be intentional and
really get, and and I have acoach who said this to me for
years, Sarah, you got to slowdown to speed up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
So if I, you know, I'm a big fan of the five-minute
journal, and you know, each dayit's like, what's the one thing
that would feel good to me todayto complete?
And it's one thing.
I'm I'm and so when someonesays, Well, Sarah, I have this
list of 10 things, I mean, Ihave lists around here, but
that's not how that's not whereit runs my day.
(19:32):
It's really the values that runmy day, and I'm extremely
intentional and I'm crystalclear on my priorities each day.
And that that has served me.
And I can say, like, I run myschedule how I want to run my
schedule.
And I am so grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Yeah.
I love, I mean, there's so manynuggets there, you know,
particularly knowing what yourvalues are.
I I think with women,particularly when one of our
core pieces of our identity, Iguess, is service.
We tend to prioritize that overand above everything else.
(20:11):
So, I mean, I love the fact thatyou prioritize your own
wellness.
Um, I mean, I have a very dearfriend who's actually uh an
entrepreneur therapist becauseshe understands the the
challenges that are specific toentrepreneurs.
That's so good.
You know, yeah.
I mean, and she's she's amazing,and and she's actually done an
episode.
So if you're listening, you cango back and listen to the
(20:32):
episode with Shula, um, who'sthe entrepreneur's therapist.
Um, but this idea of like wedon't really take care of our
mental health, we don't reallytake care of our physical
health, you know, so much is isriding on this perception that
we have to be perfect, that wehave to show up a hundred
percent in every single area, orwe like swing to the other end
(20:54):
of the pendulum where it's justsuper vulnerable and messy and a
complete, you know, chaosbucket.
And it's finding that balance,like you said, like finding
sorry, not even balance, it'sfinding that wholeness, it's
finding that integration of allof the pieces of your life.
Yeah.
I would love to know, like, Iknow because I can I can sort of
(21:15):
uh sense that we are kindredspirits here.
You you've been a leader for avery long time.
How did motherhood change or orimpact your leadership and your
perception of leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I'll be curious to hear ifwe get some comments on this.
My motherhood journey.
So I became a mom in London.
I had our oldest over there.
And we had Levi in November.
So November in London is likecold and rainy and snowy.
And this baby popped out.
And I remember looking at thisbaby and being like, oh my gosh,
(21:51):
this is like, who is this thing?
Like, I have to take care of it24 hours a day.
It can't do anything.
I remember my my mom came totown and we went to this pub
that we had, you know, would goto down the, you know, down the
street for lunch.
And mom and I took baby Levi inthere, and Levi was colicky.
(22:12):
So we're scarfing down our foodbecause the whole time I'm like,
if he wakes up, he's gonna lightup.
There's no like zero to ten.
It's like boom, he's awake.
And I remember my mom looked atme and she goes, Does it feel
like everyone around here isliving a normal life?
And I said, Yes.
And I just started to sob.
I was like, what have I done?
Like there was nothing thatcould prepare me for the sense
(22:38):
of responsibility that I felt.
And I remember later that weekcalling my aunt, who's like a
second mom to me, who has fourboys, uh, my cousins.
And I called her and I said, intears, I don't know how you did
this four times.
And she's like, I promise youit'll get easier if you decide
to have another one.
(22:58):
And yes, it is hard work, but itwill like you just can't, you
can't see what you can't seeright now.
It's like, okay, I have I like Itrust her with all my heart, I
believe her.
But so then you layer that, Ithink, particularly on top of
being a woman who is extremelyambitious.
I often say I've been burdenedby my ambition.
I am jealous of women who arefulfilled by sitting and
(23:22):
enjoying life and staring up atthe trees all day who can relax
and know how to do that.
Women who can relax.
I have had to learn how to dothat.
Um, so you know, I think being adriven, ambitious woman and then
stepping into motherhood wasreally hard.
And I didn't have this instantconnection with Levi right away.
And I and it wasn't that Ididn't love him, I just I was
(23:45):
like, I have to get to know thisbaby.
And I was so overwhelmed by howjust the sheer responsibility of
it.
And so I think, you know, fastforward each time, you know, we
went through a pregnancy and andhad a baby, and you know, I I
got, you know, like anything,you get it's like a muscle, you
know, you start to get strongerat it.
(24:07):
And I started to figure out uh,I I think that's when I started
to figure out quite quickly thatI really wanted to be able to
have an impact in the world.
And also financially, we are twoincome household.
So that that was it was not anoption really for me to not
work, but it was important to meto work.
And I also got really clear thatI wanted to be present for my
(24:31):
for my kids.
My mother was a teacher as youknow when I was growing up.
And I loved, I really respecther for one being a teacher.
It's the most thankless job, andI think the hardest job.
But also, she had her summersoff and she was available in the
morning and she was at all of mysports events after school.
(24:52):
And so I think again, it justmap kept mapping back to my
values and what what you knowwhat mattered to me was
experience, connection.
And so it, but it was, I'm notgonna lie, it was a little rough
in the get in the early, youknow.
Well, it's still rough.
Parenting is just a differentkind of parenting is a shit show
now.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like if it's atsomeone said another day, if
(25:14):
it's if it's easy, you're notdoing it right.
And I was like, you know,there's some truth to that.
There is because especially whenyou have teens.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
I mean, we're in all teens now, so well, I think it's
also a different dynamic if youhave boys.
Like I have two girls, and it'syes very different.
Like it's a it's a much moreemotional journey.
Yeah, it's not, it's yeah, it'snot easy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah, there's a lot, it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
I well, first of all, this is like a complete
aside, but um, I also have Ihave two November babies,
weirdly.
Um, and my first one was alsoborn in the UK because I was
living in the UK at the time.
So isn't that fun?
Um isn't that interesting?
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
Because the other thing about that, I I didn't
even say this.
That played a big part in merecognizing the kind of working
mom I wanted to be.
Because in the UK, it is familyfirst.
You take leave, you can takeyour kids into a pub when
they're a baby.
Yeah, it's it's much it'scelebrated that you are a
(26:12):
working mom with a kid.
Whereas, like when I came backto the States and had two more
kids, I mean, it was like, oh,you had a baby three weeks ago,
great.
Here's your next deadline.
Yeah.
I mean, it was very different.
So that's an important piece.
I didn't know if we had that incommon.
That is yeah, that's like asidebar about that.
unknown (26:28):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
But it it it's true.
And I think that it's it's sointeresting that like I had a
little bit of a differentexperience because when I had my
first, like my mom had justpassed away, uh, like a week or
two before I had found out thatI was pregnant with my first.
And when she came, she wasliterally like the most
important thing ever.
(26:50):
I was almost obsessed to thepoint of like it was a fear, I
think, more than anything.
But I I realized now lookingback, there a lot of the fear
was in navigating it, A, alone.
Um didn't have my mom.
Um, but B, like you said, beingan ambitious woman who is
driven, who has always excelledat everything she has done.
(27:12):
Like, I'm gonna hold my hand upand very, you know, very
unabassedly say, I'm a giftedhuman being.
I've always been excellent atwhatever I do.
And then you're you're giventhis human being.
SPEAKER_00 (27:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
And you're like, I this is the one thing I for sure
can't screw up, and I'm goingto, and I don't know how to stop
it.
Yeah, it I think it makes yourealize how mortal you are, but
also, you know, it it does forceyou to slow down and reconsider
(27:46):
and re-evaluate, like you said.
And I think that what I reallywant listeners to take away from
this is whether you are a parentor not, whether you choose to be
child free or have children atsome point, or if you try like
whatever the circumstance orscenario is, you are allowed to
evolve your prioritiesthroughout your life.
Like who and and how you operatein one stage or season of your
(28:09):
life does not have to continue.
And that that doesn't meananything about you or your
ambition or your your drive.
It's just an evolution.
And I think we don't giveourselves enough credit for that
because, like, you're, you know,how many times have you seen in
the media a woman has a baby,she's her body's gotta bounce
back, or she goes on Matley fromwork, and like, when are you
(28:30):
coming back to work?
And you've got to be operatingat the exact same level as when
you left.
And there's just so much,there's so much pressure and
expectation for you to find yourspot of excellence and never
deviate.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Find your spot of excellence and not have any
wiggle room to deviate.
Boy, that's uh I can so relateto that and the pressure, the
expectation that we put onourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
Yeah.
It's wild.
It's wild.
SPEAKER_00 (28:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
I would 100% continue this conversation all
afternoon if I could.
One more question.
We're gonna have to do coffee atsome point.
There's one last question I wantto ask.
In all of your time as aleadership expert, executive
coach, doing what you do.
What's one piece of likeblasphemous advice that you've
given a client or someone thatyou've mentored that, you know,
(29:21):
didn't really fit the norm orthe status quo, but you're like,
you know what, you need to dothis because this is the the net
the right next step for you.
Can you can you think of anexample of that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
I don't know if this fits within it, but it's the
first thing that came to mindbecause I think often when
people are stepping into beingan entrepreneur, they've done
something else prior.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
And so they get in their own way.
And I think one of the thingsthat I have found that can be
tangible, but it starts with anintangible thought is this idea
that all success istransferable.
I think we tell ourselves whenwe become an entrepreneur that
we have to start over.
unknown (29:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
It's how That's even possible.
You can't start over.
You're not the same person thatyou were three years ago.
You've had all theseexperiences, you've built all
these skills.
So whether I someone comes to meand they are starting a new role
within an organization, or theyare leaving an organization to
become an entrepreneur, one ofthe beliefs that we work on is
(30:24):
all success is transferable.
And then we take it a stepfurther and let's create a brag
sheet.
And I want that brag sheet up infront of you.
What are the qualities that makeyou uniquely you?
What are the skills that makeyou uniquely you?
What are the experiences thatyou've had over the last however
many years that have informedyour ability in the way in which
(30:46):
you show up and work andcommunicate with others?
And so it's a very, that can betactical, but also, like I said,
intangible.
But I think that's a very, youknow, if there was, I just hear
it all the time from people likeI'm starting, oh, I don't know
if I can start over again, but Iwant this different life or I
want to make more money or Iwant to have flexibility in my
schedule.
And the more that you can buyinto this belief that your
(31:10):
success is transferable, it isnot possible to be starting
completely over because you'vehad all this experience.
So I've seen that really givepeople leverage and get them
enough momentum to take whateverthat next leap is.
And then I would say the otherjust tried into your practice,
(31:30):
whether it's someone who'smaking a leap or it's one of my
existing clients, I doeverything in three foot tosses.
What is the three-foot tossyou're gonna do today that's
gonna have you on your edge justa little bit?
So, like my son today didn'tmake it to school.
Now I know if he doesn't get oncampus today, tomorrow's gonna
be even worse.
(31:51):
So after two hours of having aconversation and listening and
just listening to this energy,you know, upset energy move
through him.
Finally, we said, right, what isthe one thing that you can do
today?
You can put your pants on, youcould put your shirt on, let's
go for an hour and a half.
That's a baby step.
(32:12):
That's a huge win, and we'regonna celebrate that win.
SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
And one baby step informs the next step.
And I think that's one of thebest ways to move yourself out
of any situation, particularlywhere you feel stuck because of
finances or relationship orwhatever the thing may be.
Um, yeah, those are those aretwo kind of my two go-tos that I
practice, but also I've justseen they work.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Yeah.
And I mean, and that's thethat's the proof, right?
They work.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah, they work.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
No, no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
This idea that it's all in our own that's in, you
know, I this came from a coachthat I worked with for a long
time.
And I use this all thisframework at least twice a week
with clients.
You know, we have our cashproject and we have our sexy
project.
Often our cash project is how wemake money, and then our sexy
project is the thing that wewant to be doing.
And eventually they will mergeand come together.
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
But if you can hold them as your sexy project and
your cash project, it takes abit of the pressure off that you
have to hit a home run and getit all figured out in the first
day.
And so, you know, when Ilaunched my coaching, I was
managing a sales team.
And I went to them and said,I'll manage your sales team
because one, it's gonna take mea little bit to build up
revenue, but I I will needFridays off.
(33:30):
That's gonna be my coaching day.
So I'll do this job in fourdays.
And they're like, huh, no one'sever asked me that before.
I'm like, well, that's what Ican do.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
We made an agreement, we got clear on what
that looked like, and that's howI started my coaching business.
And then eventually, obviously,it led to, you know, I've been
doing it full-time for for many,many years now.
But yeah, we got to take thepressure off ourselves.
Um, because we have to also workin reality.
You know, all of us have billsto pay.
I mean, you know, most of usdon't have a money tree in the
(33:58):
backyard.
So we got to work in reality.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
No, you're absolutely right.
And and that is, you know, oneof the fundamental pieces that I
bring to clients as well is thatif you if you're expecting to
operate outside of reality, wecannot work together.
SPEAKER_00 (34:13):
Yeah.
That's so good, Sarah, because Irefuse to fuel your madness.
Yeah, right.
But I mean, if someone comes tome and they want to pay for
coaching and we're having aconversation about investment
and whatnot, and they're like,there is no way I can afford
this.
I can't I and I'm like, okay,then you investing in coaching
right now is at least with me,is not the right, it's not an
(34:36):
it's not a a never, it's justnot right for now.
Right now, yeah.
So yes, we have to work inreality.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah.
There are so many directions wecan take this conversation in.
Um, but I want to thank you somuch for being here.
Is there any sort of last finalthoughts you want to share with
the audience where we canconnect with you, find you,
anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (34:55):
Oh gosh, yes.
Well, you can go to my website,saragibons.com, it'll all be in
the show notes.
Um, you can follow me on socialmedia, that'll be in the show
notes.
I think one thing I wouldencourage you to do, if you do
not know your values, if you goto my website, you can sign up
to receive my Sunday emails thatcome out uh twice a month, and
(35:20):
you'll get a free guide to helpuh distilling your values.
It's if there's nothing you takefrom this call that I've shared
other than get to know yourvalues, it will change your
life.
And to the point where when Isay know your values, like you
really know them.
You know, we if you when youdwindle them down to five to six
values and you understand thedefinition of how you've defined
(35:43):
it, yeah, then you start makingdecisions from your values
rather than leading fromexpectations.
And anytime we're leading fromexpectations, it results in
disappointment.
We all know that.
We've been there.
So do yourself a favor, go to mywebsite, get that free values
guide.
And if there's something thatresonated with you from this
conversation, then just shoot mea note and I will happily talk
(36:04):
with you about it.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
I love that.
So all of that information willbe in the show notes.
Sarah, thank you so much forbeing here.
I appreciate the time thatyou've taken.
Uh, and to all of you, myfriends, you know the drill.
You can absolutely have successwithout the BS.
But sometimes you gotta knowwhy.
(36:27):
I will talk to you next week.
Thanks for listening.
Hey, do us a favor subscribe tothe show, rate your favorite
episode, or share it with yourfriends.
And remember, your blasphemy isnecessary.
Welcome to this space where bold truths, real
strategies, and unfilteredstories fuel ambitious women who
want more power, leadership, andlegacy on their turn.
Because in common circles, awoman doing what she wants, how
she wants, and winning is ablasphemist.
Welcome to Business Blasphemy.
(00:24):
Hello, hello, blasphemers.
Welcome back.
This is Business Blasphemy,where we dismantle the rules of
business and leadership soambitious women can lead on
their own terms.
I am Sarah Kahn, speaker,leadership strategist, and your
ever-blasphemous host.
I'm very pleased to have one ofmy new friends on the podcast
(00:45):
today, Sarah Gibbons.
She is an executive leadershipcoach and founder of Sarah
Gibbons and Company, a globalcoaching practice devoted to
helping individuals andorganizations made with depth,
connection, and courage.
We, as always, when I haveguests on the show, we started
having a really greatconversation offline.
And I wanted to like, no, wegotta have this online.
(01:06):
So, Sarah, welcome.
This is the first time I've hadanother Sarah on the show, so
it's actually kind of cool.
Um, my first question that I Ikind of ask everybody is can you
give me like the Coles notes ofyour villain origin story?
Like, how did you come to beingyour own boss and having your
own business?
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Absolutely.
First of all, uh thank you somuch for having me.
And so cool that you also spellyour name with an H.
But more than anything, it isthe only way to s to spell it.
Uh, but I really, when I whenyou and I first talked a few
months ago, it was post uh thefires in LA and I'm in LA, and I
was so struck by how much of aconnection I felt to you, both
(01:49):
professionally and also as a asa mom to mom.
So I'm really I'm delighted tobe here and really honored to be
in your community.
So thank you for having me.
Okay, what'd you call it?
My villain, my villain, villainorigin story.
Yeah, my villain origin story.
Uh well, let's see.
I started a little company.
I didn't start a little, Istarted at a little company
called Amazon in 2000.
(02:10):
And at the time, there was thisother guy there named John
Gibbons, who now has been myhusband for 18 years.
And he and I started uh reallywhat was the early days of their
online advertising.
And I loved it for many reasons,because I loved the fast pace, I
loved to travel.
But very quickly, throughworking there for a few years
(02:32):
and then going over and helpingmanage a team over at a little
social media company calledMySpace, I quickly realized that
something was off in my heartthat I really, even though I
loved the travel, I loved thepeople I was working with, I
loved the fast pace of it, itwas lacking a purpose for me.
(02:54):
And so, long story short, we'dmoved to London.
And when we came back afterworking in London for a few
years, I went back to school andgot my master's in spiritual
psychology that I had beenworking with a coach at the
time.
And that really opened up mydoors to this idea of working
with teams, working withindividuals, centered around
(03:15):
leadership.
And I just noticed that Istarted to feel at home with the
work and more fulfilled.
And I think I've always knownthat I was meant to be an
entrepreneur because I've neverliked working for anybody else.
I've I've had amazing bossesthat I still keep in touch with,
but even in my early days atAmazon at 24, I was like, hey,
(03:35):
I'd like to take a sabbatical.
They're like, You've been herefor a year and a half.
We've never had anyone ask that.
And I did, I took a sabbaticaland went to New York.
So I've always kind of beat tomy own drum.
And I also love to make money.
And I the sky's the limit whenyou're an entrepreneur.
I really saw that as anopportunity more than anything.
So I've had my business now forover 15 years, and I love what I
(03:56):
do.
I love my people, I love thework.
SPEAKER_01 (03:59):
So tell me a little bit about what you do.
Because I mean, one of thethings that has has become more
and more important to me as thebusiness has evolved and as like
the podcast has evolved and thebrand and everything is the idea
of everybody talks aboutleadership.
I know a lot of leadershipcoaches and a lot of leadership
consultants and strategists, butthey seem to kind of still be
(04:20):
working from the same hymn sheetof the old, you know, seven
models of leadership that menhave been told to follow in
order to be, you know, strongleaders, powerful leaders,
whatever.
What is different about the wayyou see leadership from the way
it's been traditionally done ortaught to us?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
That's a that's a great question.
And you're right, we still tothis day are taught often that
leadership looks like a title,or it looks like you know, you
make a certain amount of money.
I fundamentally believe that allof us are leaders.
And leaders, as long as we arebreathing schools and session
and the way in which we show upand and be both in our core, but
(05:01):
also the actions that we take,that's our leadership.
And so I spend a lot of my timewith my clients, number one,
helping them remember howpowerful they are.
So we do a lot of workontologically looking at their
way of being.
And I think what I've found atthe end of the day is to your
point, a lot of people talkabout leadership, but what is
(05:21):
the actual experience ofleadership?
What is the impact that you haveon yourself, on people around
you?
Are you creating the impact thatyou want to have?
And are you taking ownership ofyour impact?
And the one thing I've reallynoticed with the people that I
coach, there's definitely avalue set.
(05:42):
You know, it's people who verymuch care about growth.
They're constant learners, theycare about connection, they care
about purpose and impact.
They also really care abouthaving fun.
And one of the things that Ithink we've been taught a lot is
that the higher you grow inleadership, the more
responsibility you take on, andthe more demanding it is, this
(06:02):
whole idea of like hustle.
Not to be confused with hardwork.
There is not an ounce in me thatever wants to go hustle.
I'm turning 50 next year.
I have three teenage boys, Ihave a marriage, I don't want to
be hustling.
I will work hard.
And I've seen that with myclients.
And so a lot of the work that Ido, there's there's definitely
(06:23):
people come to me with tangiblegoals, whether it be financial
goals, whether it be executivepresence, whether it be
launching a business becausethey're moving from corporate
into being an entrepreneur.
But the piece that I hold sacredas much as the end result is
what is the experience that youare going to have along the way?
(06:43):
Because we all know that you canget to the end of the line, you
can graduate from a school, youcan get the job that you thought
you wanted, or you can buy thecar, you can buy a house.
But if your experience along theway left you feeling
disconnected to yourself, toothers, unfulfilled, or just not
experiencing a level of joy,then what's it all for anyway?
(07:04):
So yeah, that's a very sort ofroundabout way of saying, you
know, I do help people rememberhow powerful they are and have
the experience that they'reultimately wanting to have along
the way.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
I love that.
I think I I wrote down what yousaid, you know, what is the
actual experience of leadership?
And I don't think that issomething enough or any people
really consider.
No.
Whether it's, you know, mentorsor leaders themselves,
particularly women.
A lot of the advice that we getin the leadership space, I mean,
most, I mean, most people thatI've talked to, leadership means
(07:37):
we are the boss, we are managingpeople.
There's really nocontextualization of what
leadership is supposed to looklike, what it can look like.
You've worked with a lot of uhhigh-level leaders in executive
positions.
What is some of the most harmfulleadership advice that you see
kind of recycled in thoseexecutive spaces?
I I was in corporate for anumber of years, almost.
SPEAKER_02 (07:59):
Oh man.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
What is what's some of the more harmful leadership
advice you've you've seen, andwhy do you think it still gets
treated as truth?
SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Gosh, it's so funny.
I'm so trained to be inpossibility.
That's the way my brain thinks.
It doesn't mean that I don'tlose hope.
But I'm I have to say, I'mhaving to like dig deep a little
bit for this.
But I would I if I reverse thisin my in my mind, one of the
things I particularly see withwomen is a challenge of speaking
(08:30):
up and speaking their truthbecause they will be known as a
bitch.
Yep.
Hand out.
And right?
I mean, I think we all canrelate to that.
I don't know why, you know, I,you know, a lot of my
girlfriends uh are incrediblyhardworking.
You know, like I said, I'malmost 50, so we've been in the
work world for quite some timeand they hold senior positions
(08:52):
or they've been entrepreneursfor a long time.
And I'm sure if I asked them,every single one of them would
say, Oh, yeah, there's beenplenty of times when I have uh
gotten feedback in a formalreview or just subtly that I'm
because I'm voicing my opinion,because I'm being passionate
about something, that I amcoming across as a bitch.
(09:12):
And that is such a detriment.
And I do think there's a doublestandard here.
And so where I see this show upwith my clients is you know,
women, just like men, bringsomething totally extraordinary
to the table that that mendon't.
And so for women to silencethemselves or dumb or dim their
(09:35):
ideas and not share their fullbreadth and light of who they
are, yeah.
One, it does a disservice toeverybody else.
It's also actually reallyselfish on their part because
every single person hassomething unique to offer.
And so, you know, I think thisis something that is still very
much, I see it in certainindustries, obviously more than
(09:56):
others.
You know, I coach executives andfinance and a lot of creative,
obviously, and based in LA.
But I see, I really do see atech, I see it all over the
place.
But I do think it is, I thinkit's a real challenge.
And it's something that we aswomen, it's not a weakness, but
I do find it's a muscle that,you know, being coached around
and ensuring that we are usingour voices and that we are, and
(10:20):
that we're not afraid toarticulate thoughts when they're
not fully baked and to say thething.
And then the cool thing aboutleadership is that, you know, I
really try to operate from thisthat, you know, progress over
perfection.
And the cool thing aboutleadership is you can always
come out of leadership and comeback in.
It's not like we're always on inthe sense of trying to get it
(10:42):
right.
You know, if I make a mistake onsomething or I say something to
my team, I can say, hold on, Ican tell by your faces this
didn't come out the way I wantedit to.
Let me read, let me try thisagain.
And that's a so I really workingwith a lot of my female clients
to practice what it's like toone, be connected to your to
your authentic voice, to expressyour authentic voice and to take
(11:04):
yourselves a little bit lessserious in the sense of it's
okay to make mistakes and not toconfuse owning your power with
this idea that you're then abitch.
I mean, I'm 5'10, I've gottenthis my whole life.
You know, you you you can beintimidating, sir, when you walk
into a room.
Okay.
And for a long time, I wouldkind of dress a certain way, not
(11:28):
to like, I didn't want to takeup too much.
And then I got to a point whereI was like, you're not be
worrying about this.
This is nuts.
That sounds like a you problem,not a me problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
What am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
So yeah, I think, you know, Ithink that's a very I mean
there's so many, but that onecomes to mind right away.
SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
Yeah, and and I I'm sure lots of people have had
that experience.
I certainly have.
I've been called aggressive,I've been called a bitch, I've
been called like so many things.
And I've actually had that thatsame feedback of like, you know,
you need you're you're being tooambitious.
Like me going into um a meeting.
I I remember um my boss had sentaround an email because we were,
you know, shuffling thedepartment.
(12:04):
And he said, you know, there'ssome positions coming up.
Email me, let me know which onesthat you're you're interested in
being considered for.
And so I emailed him.
I said, I would really love tobe considered for this one
position.
It was an advisory position.
And he called me into his officethe next morning and I said, you
know, I was like, oh, okay,maybe I'm gonna I'm gonna get it
or we're gonna talk about it.
And he said, the advisory role?
I said, yeah.
(12:25):
He says, it's a little ambitiousfor you, isn't it?
And I'm like, I have been herefor nine years.
Like, what what's what's theproblem with that?
Like, I'm the highest ratedperson in the department, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah.
But it was outside of the scopethat he saw me within.
Right.
And at the time, there was a lotof, oh, okay, you know, you're
(12:48):
you're the boss, you must knowbetter.
I mean, I it didn't feel right,but there was the deferring
because I I wasn't confidentenough in myself to say,
actually, you're incorrect.
Like I I wasn't nearly strongenough or courageous enough to
do it at that time.
Looking back on it now, I knowexactly what it was.
I know the job went to a dude,he was less senior than me.
(13:09):
Like it it was as you wouldexpect it to play out.
SPEAKER_02 (13:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
And now I look back and I think to myself, all you
can see like all of the timeswhere I deferred because I
didn't fit the role somebodyelse perceived me in.
And I see so many women doingthat, not just as women in
leadership spaces in formalemployment, but I see it a lot
(13:33):
in the entrepreneurial space aswell.
Like you're coming in as anexpert in your area, in your
subject matter, but somebody whocomes in with their subject
matter expertise.
Like you, you, for example, youknow, if you're an operations
expert or a strategy expert, butyou don't have a lot of
expertise in marketing, there'sthis almost um like this this
(13:55):
impulse to not push back whenwhen you know something doesn't
feel right because they're theexpert.
So that that self-leadershippiece is still lacking in a lot
of people, I find.
And it's it's not you know,through any fault of their own.
It's just, I think it's how weare conditioned, particularly as
women.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Uh a hundred percent.
And this idea, I mean, I hearthis even with uh, you know,
coaches that I've worked withwho have been coaches, you know,
for as long as I have, if notlonger, that sense of imposture
syndrome, as if somehow we haveto know everything.
You know, I do see it in in men,but more so in women, this this
(14:33):
working towards rather thanexcellence perfection.
And that's a real, yeah, it's atotal trap.
unknown (14:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
And it makes us doubt ourselves.
I have a question.
So earlier you talked abouthustle.
I mean, I'm super anti-hustle,so I'm glad that you're as well.
Yeah.
We're both moms, we both havekids in school, we have teens.
I I have a teen and a and alittle.
And I understand that there is amarked difference between hustle
and hard work, but how do youbalance hard work with success
(15:03):
when you are a mom too?
Because I feel like we're stillin that space of like choose one
or the other, you can't haveboth.
Or yeah, you've got to say asacrifice element.
Like how, so how do you balancethat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
Yeah.
Such a good question, Sarah.
And I want to honor, I want toanswer this as truthfully and
transparently as I know how.
I think for me, first of all, Ihave three boys.
So when I had that third boy, Iquickly realized, okay, this is
I'm outnumbered and I'm gonnahave to, this is not if I wanted
(15:36):
to hustle, it's just it's notgonna happen.
And we had our boys all veryclose together.
So what I have learned is thatintentionality it goes much
further than hustle.
And so, in a very practicalworld, what this looks like is I
got clear for me.
And I'm speaking as someone whohas an established business.
(15:57):
So I think it's a little bitdifferent when you when you're
starting your business and it'snot quite as easily defined.
So I figured out for me, inorder to really be intentional
and have the experience I wantto have, both as a mom and as a
coach and entrepreneur, that forme, no more than four coaching
(16:19):
calls a day, ideally, preferablythree, because sometimes those
are team calls, sometimesthey're individuals.
So I got really clear on that.
That gets on the calendar.
I got really clear that if Idon't work out in the morning,
it doesn't happen.
I'm not an evening person.
I also got really clear that itis important to me to make my
kids breakfast and to be withthem, to be present for
(16:40):
breakfast.
And so that's on the calendar.
What I have learned over time isthat the harder things to fit in
are new business development,because that requires a
different kind of thinking.
So if I only have an hourscheduled in between calls to
jump into outreach or research,that can be a little
(17:01):
challenging.
So I've had to flex thosemuscles and learn how to be
because I used to be like well,I need to have at least two
hours.
If I don't have two hours, I'mnot gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
Nope, that's not always the choice.
So I've had to learn new skills,how to flex and um train myself
essentially.
All that to be said, I have alsogotten very crystal clear on
what is most important to me.
My husband and my children'swell-being and my own well-being
(17:30):
is number one.
And then my clients come second.
So I was sharing with you thismorning one of my boys.
We switched schools this year,and it's a second day, and he
woke up with just paralyzedfear, didn't want to go to
school today.
Yeah, we've been down this roadbefore, so we're not, you know,
it's not our first rodeo, but itstill I realized in that moment,
(17:53):
okay, this might be a day whereI might have to make some shifts
professionally.
And I waited to see, like I waslike, I really want to have this
call with Sarah.
I have a two-hour call uh withmy board right after this.
Uh, I have another call afterthat.
Uh, but I'm gonna just hold onthat for a minute and I'm gonna
put my energy here.
So there's also some letting goof expectations.
(18:14):
I think we, as particularly aswell, I would say working dads
as well, but I'm just I want tospeak to our community, your
community here, working moms.
I am very clear on my values.
And I think the more intentionalI am, and when I start to lose
sight of my North Starthroughout the day, I can go
back to and go, well, whatmatters most to me?
Family, being of service.
(18:36):
So that's showing up for myclients in a way that I can put
my head on my pillow at nightand know that I am integrity
with them.
And then, and then the rest ofmy values.
And so I think where peoplereally struggle, and I don't
think balance is a real thing.
I think it's more like this ideaof work-life wholeness and and
architect you know, being thearchitect of a day that really
(18:58):
works for you and different dayslook differently.
But I do think the more thatpeople can be intentional and
really get, and and I have acoach who said this to me for
years, Sarah, you got to slowdown to speed up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
So if I, you know, I'm a big fan of the five-minute
journal, and you know, each dayit's like, what's the one thing
that would feel good to me todayto complete?
And it's one thing.
I'm I'm and so when someonesays, Well, Sarah, I have this
list of 10 things, I mean, Ihave lists around here, but
that's not how that's not whereit runs my day.
(19:32):
It's really the values that runmy day, and I'm extremely
intentional and I'm crystalclear on my priorities each day.
And that that has served me.
And I can say, like, I run myschedule how I want to run my
schedule.
And I am so grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Yeah.
I love, I mean, there's so manynuggets there, you know,
particularly knowing what yourvalues are.
I I think with women,particularly when one of our
core pieces of our identity, Iguess, is service.
We tend to prioritize that overand above everything else.
(20:11):
So, I mean, I love the fact thatyou prioritize your own
wellness.
Um, I mean, I have a very dearfriend who's actually uh an
entrepreneur therapist becauseshe understands the the
challenges that are specific toentrepreneurs.
That's so good.
You know, yeah.
I mean, and she's she's amazing,and and she's actually done an
episode.
So if you're listening, you cango back and listen to the
(20:32):
episode with Shula, um, who'sthe entrepreneur's therapist.
Um, but this idea of like wedon't really take care of our
mental health, we don't reallytake care of our physical
health, you know, so much is isriding on this perception that
we have to be perfect, that wehave to show up a hundred
percent in every single area, orwe like swing to the other end
(20:54):
of the pendulum where it's justsuper vulnerable and messy and a
complete, you know, chaosbucket.
And it's finding that balance,like you said, like finding
sorry, not even balance, it'sfinding that wholeness, it's
finding that integration of allof the pieces of your life.
Yeah.
I would love to know, like, Iknow because I can I can sort of
(21:15):
uh sense that we are kindredspirits here.
You you've been a leader for avery long time.
How did motherhood change or orimpact your leadership and your
perception of leadership?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
Oh my gosh.
Well, I'll be curious to hear ifwe get some comments on this.
My motherhood journey.
So I became a mom in London.
I had our oldest over there.
And we had Levi in November.
So November in London is likecold and rainy and snowy.
And this baby popped out.
And I remember looking at thisbaby and being like, oh my gosh,
(21:51):
this is like, who is this thing?
Like, I have to take care of it24 hours a day.
It can't do anything.
I remember my my mom came totown and we went to this pub
that we had, you know, would goto down the, you know, down the
street for lunch.
And mom and I took baby Levi inthere, and Levi was colicky.
(22:12):
So we're scarfing down our foodbecause the whole time I'm like,
if he wakes up, he's gonna lightup.
There's no like zero to ten.
It's like boom, he's awake.
And I remember my mom looked atme and she goes, Does it feel
like everyone around here isliving a normal life?
And I said, Yes.
And I just started to sob.
I was like, what have I done?
Like there was nothing thatcould prepare me for the sense
(22:38):
of responsibility that I felt.
And I remember later that weekcalling my aunt, who's like a
second mom to me, who has fourboys, uh, my cousins.
And I called her and I said, intears, I don't know how you did
this four times.
And she's like, I promise youit'll get easier if you decide
to have another one.
(22:58):
And yes, it is hard work, but itwill like you just can't, you
can't see what you can't seeright now.
It's like, okay, I have I like Itrust her with all my heart, I
believe her.
But so then you layer that, Ithink, particularly on top of
being a woman who is extremelyambitious.
I often say I've been burdenedby my ambition.
I am jealous of women who arefulfilled by sitting and
(23:22):
enjoying life and staring up atthe trees all day who can relax
and know how to do that.
Women who can relax.
I have had to learn how to dothat.
Um, so you know, I think being adriven, ambitious woman and then
stepping into motherhood wasreally hard.
And I didn't have this instantconnection with Levi right away.
And I and it wasn't that Ididn't love him, I just I was
(23:45):
like, I have to get to know thisbaby.
And I was so overwhelmed by howjust the sheer responsibility of
it.
And so I think, you know, fastforward each time, you know, we
went through a pregnancy and andhad a baby, and you know, I I
got, you know, like anything,you get it's like a muscle, you
know, you start to get strongerat it.
(24:07):
And I started to figure out uh,I I think that's when I started
to figure out quite quickly thatI really wanted to be able to
have an impact in the world.
And also financially, we are twoincome household.
So that that was it was not anoption really for me to not
work, but it was important to meto work.
And I also got really clear thatI wanted to be present for my
(24:31):
for my kids.
My mother was a teacher as youknow when I was growing up.
And I loved, I really respecther for one being a teacher.
It's the most thankless job, andI think the hardest job.
But also, she had her summersoff and she was available in the
morning and she was at all of mysports events after school.
(24:52):
And so I think again, it justmap kept mapping back to my
values and what what you knowwhat mattered to me was
experience, connection.
And so it, but it was, I'm notgonna lie, it was a little rough
in the get in the early, youknow.
Well, it's still rough.
Parenting is just a differentkind of parenting is a shit show
now.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like if it's atsomeone said another day, if
(25:14):
it's if it's easy, you're notdoing it right.
And I was like, you know,there's some truth to that.
There is because especially whenyou have teens.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
I mean, we're in all teens now, so well, I think it's
also a different dynamic if youhave boys.
Like I have two girls, and it'syes very different.
Like it's a it's a much moreemotional journey.
Yeah, it's not, it's yeah, it'snot easy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Yeah, there's a lot, it's not easy.
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
I well, first of all, this is like a complete
aside, but um, I also have Ihave two November babies,
weirdly.
Um, and my first one was alsoborn in the UK because I was
living in the UK at the time.
So isn't that fun?
Um isn't that interesting?
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
Because the other thing about that, I I didn't
even say this.
That played a big part in merecognizing the kind of working
mom I wanted to be.
Because in the UK, it is familyfirst.
You take leave, you can takeyour kids into a pub when
they're a baby.
Yeah, it's it's much it'scelebrated that you are a
(26:12):
working mom with a kid.
Whereas, like when I came backto the States and had two more
kids, I mean, it was like, oh,you had a baby three weeks ago,
great.
Here's your next deadline.
Yeah.
I mean, it was very different.
So that's an important piece.
I didn't know if we had that incommon.
That is yeah, that's like asidebar about that.
unknown (26:28):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:29):
But it it it's true.
And I think that it's it's sointeresting that like I had a
little bit of a differentexperience because when I had my
first, like my mom had justpassed away, uh, like a week or
two before I had found out thatI was pregnant with my first.
And when she came, she wasliterally like the most
important thing ever.
(26:50):
I was almost obsessed to thepoint of like it was a fear, I
think, more than anything.
But I I realized now lookingback, there a lot of the fear
was in navigating it, A, alone.
Um didn't have my mom.
Um, but B, like you said, beingan ambitious woman who is
driven, who has always excelledat everything she has done.
(27:12):
Like, I'm gonna hold my hand upand very, you know, very
unabassedly say, I'm a giftedhuman being.
I've always been excellent atwhatever I do.
And then you're you're giventhis human being.
SPEAKER_00 (27:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:24):
And you're like, I this is the one thing I for sure
can't screw up, and I'm goingto, and I don't know how to stop
it.
Yeah, it I think it makes yourealize how mortal you are, but
also, you know, it it does forceyou to slow down and reconsider
(27:46):
and re-evaluate, like you said.
And I think that what I reallywant listeners to take away from
this is whether you are a parentor not, whether you choose to be
child free or have children atsome point, or if you try like
whatever the circumstance orscenario is, you are allowed to
evolve your prioritiesthroughout your life.
Like who and and how you operatein one stage or season of your
(28:09):
life does not have to continue.
And that that doesn't meananything about you or your
ambition or your your drive.
It's just an evolution.
And I think we don't giveourselves enough credit for that
because, like, you're, you know,how many times have you seen in
the media a woman has a baby,she's her body's gotta bounce
back, or she goes on Matley fromwork, and like, when are you
(28:30):
coming back to work?
And you've got to be operatingat the exact same level as when
you left.
And there's just so much,there's so much pressure and
expectation for you to find yourspot of excellence and never
deviate.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Find your spot of excellence and not have any
wiggle room to deviate.
Boy, that's uh I can so relateto that and the pressure, the
expectation that we put onourselves.
SPEAKER_01 (28:56):
Yeah.
It's wild.
It's wild.
SPEAKER_00 (28:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:59):
I would 100% continue this conversation all
afternoon if I could.
One more question.
We're gonna have to do coffee atsome point.
There's one last question I wantto ask.
In all of your time as aleadership expert, executive
coach, doing what you do.
What's one piece of likeblasphemous advice that you've
given a client or someone thatyou've mentored that, you know,
(29:21):
didn't really fit the norm orthe status quo, but you're like,
you know what, you need to dothis because this is the the net
the right next step for you.
Can you can you think of anexample of that?
SPEAKER_00 (29:32):
I don't know if this fits within it, but it's the
first thing that came to mindbecause I think often when
people are stepping into beingan entrepreneur, they've done
something else prior.
SPEAKER_01 (29:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
And so they get in their own way.
And I think one of the thingsthat I have found that can be
tangible, but it starts with anintangible thought is this idea
that all success istransferable.
I think we tell ourselves whenwe become an entrepreneur that
we have to start over.
unknown (29:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
It's how That's even possible.
You can't start over.
You're not the same person thatyou were three years ago.
You've had all theseexperiences, you've built all
these skills.
So whether I someone comes to meand they are starting a new role
within an organization, or theyare leaving an organization to
become an entrepreneur, one ofthe beliefs that we work on is
(30:24):
all success is transferable.
And then we take it a stepfurther and let's create a brag
sheet.
And I want that brag sheet up infront of you.
What are the qualities that makeyou uniquely you?
What are the skills that makeyou uniquely you?
What are the experiences thatyou've had over the last however
many years that have informedyour ability in the way in which
(30:46):
you show up and work andcommunicate with others?
And so it's a very, that can betactical, but also, like I said,
intangible.
But I think that's a very, youknow, if there was, I just hear
it all the time from people likeI'm starting, oh, I don't know
if I can start over again, but Iwant this different life or I
want to make more money or Iwant to have flexibility in my
schedule.
And the more that you can buyinto this belief that your
(31:10):
success is transferable, it isnot possible to be starting
completely over because you'vehad all this experience.
So I've seen that really givepeople leverage and get them
enough momentum to take whateverthat next leap is.
And then I would say the otherjust tried into your practice,
(31:30):
whether it's someone who'smaking a leap or it's one of my
existing clients, I doeverything in three foot tosses.
What is the three-foot tossyou're gonna do today that's
gonna have you on your edge justa little bit?
So, like my son today didn'tmake it to school.
Now I know if he doesn't get oncampus today, tomorrow's gonna
be even worse.
(31:51):
So after two hours of having aconversation and listening and
just listening to this energy,you know, upset energy move
through him.
Finally, we said, right, what isthe one thing that you can do
today?
You can put your pants on, youcould put your shirt on, let's
go for an hour and a half.
That's a baby step.
(32:12):
That's a huge win, and we'regonna celebrate that win.
SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:15):
And one baby step informs the next step.
And I think that's one of thebest ways to move yourself out
of any situation, particularlywhere you feel stuck because of
finances or relationship orwhatever the thing may be.
Um, yeah, those are those aretwo kind of my two go-tos that I
practice, but also I've justseen they work.
SPEAKER_01 (32:38):
Yeah.
And I mean, and that's thethat's the proof, right?
They work.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah, they work.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
No, no.
SPEAKER_00 (32:46):
This idea that it's all in our own that's in, you
know, I this came from a coachthat I worked with for a long
time.
And I use this all thisframework at least twice a week
with clients.
You know, we have our cashproject and we have our sexy
project.
Often our cash project is how wemake money, and then our sexy
project is the thing that wewant to be doing.
And eventually they will mergeand come together.
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
But if you can hold them as your sexy project and
your cash project, it takes abit of the pressure off that you
have to hit a home run and getit all figured out in the first
day.
And so, you know, when Ilaunched my coaching, I was
managing a sales team.
And I went to them and said,I'll manage your sales team
because one, it's gonna take mea little bit to build up
revenue, but I I will needFridays off.
(33:30):
That's gonna be my coaching day.
So I'll do this job in fourdays.
And they're like, huh, no one'sever asked me that before.
I'm like, well, that's what Ican do.
SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
We made an agreement, we got clear on what
that looked like, and that's howI started my coaching business.
And then eventually, obviously,it led to, you know, I've been
doing it full-time for for many,many years now.
But yeah, we got to take thepressure off ourselves.
Um, because we have to also workin reality.
You know, all of us have billsto pay.
I mean, you know, most of usdon't have a money tree in the
(33:58):
backyard.
So we got to work in reality.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:01):
No, you're absolutely right.
And and that is, you know, oneof the fundamental pieces that I
bring to clients as well is thatif you if you're expecting to
operate outside of reality, wecannot work together.
SPEAKER_00 (34:13):
Yeah.
That's so good, Sarah, because Irefuse to fuel your madness.
Yeah, right.
But I mean, if someone comes tome and they want to pay for
coaching and we're having aconversation about investment
and whatnot, and they're like,there is no way I can afford
this.
I can't I and I'm like, okay,then you investing in coaching
right now is at least with me,is not the right, it's not an
(34:36):
it's not a a never, it's justnot right for now.
Right now, yeah.
So yes, we have to work inreality.
SPEAKER_01 (34:42):
Yeah.
There are so many directions wecan take this conversation in.
Um, but I want to thank you somuch for being here.
Is there any sort of last finalthoughts you want to share with
the audience where we canconnect with you, find you,
anything like that?
SPEAKER_00 (34:55):
Oh gosh, yes.
Well, you can go to my website,saragibons.com, it'll all be in
the show notes.
Um, you can follow me on socialmedia, that'll be in the show
notes.
I think one thing I wouldencourage you to do, if you do
not know your values, if you goto my website, you can sign up
to receive my Sunday emails thatcome out uh twice a month, and
(35:20):
you'll get a free guide to helpuh distilling your values.
It's if there's nothing you takefrom this call that I've shared
other than get to know yourvalues, it will change your
life.
And to the point where when Isay know your values, like you
really know them.
You know, we if you when youdwindle them down to five to six
values and you understand thedefinition of how you've defined
(35:43):
it, yeah, then you start makingdecisions from your values
rather than leading fromexpectations.
And anytime we're leading fromexpectations, it results in
disappointment.
We all know that.
We've been there.
So do yourself a favor, go to mywebsite, get that free values
guide.
And if there's something thatresonated with you from this
conversation, then just shoot mea note and I will happily talk
(36:04):
with you about it.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
I love that.
So all of that information willbe in the show notes.
Sarah, thank you so much forbeing here.
I appreciate the time thatyou've taken.
Uh, and to all of you, myfriends, you know the drill.
You can absolutely have successwithout the BS.
But sometimes you gotta knowwhy.
(36:27):
I will talk to you next week.
Thanks for listening.
Hey, do us a favor subscribe tothe show, rate your favorite
episode, or share it with yourfriends.
And remember, your blasphemy isnecessary.
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