Kyle Trevor on Creativity, Cannabis, and Listening to Yourself

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
I'm Brandon. And I'm Jesse we're.
Cannabis school having cannabis infused conversations.
With everyday. People.
Cannabis companies. Celebrities.
And your mom? Welcome.
To the sesh dude, Is that your singing Mike?
It is. Sweet, do you like the shirts?
How long have you been in music now creating?

(00:24):
I've been for a long time, 10 years.
Yeah, I mean it's. Oh no, it's been longer than.
I mean, I was 11 years old when I started playing.
Guitar. Oh yeah, yeah, but.
As far as like, like my name andmy music, that's out right now.
Yeah, I've been doing that for since 2014 is when I started

(00:46):
rapping. When I started like I actually
putting stuff up. It was 2017 I think.
Dude, that's impressive. That's quite a while.
Yeah. Way better the flavor.
Oh yeah, that's what I was getting last night out of the
Venti. This flavor so good.
I think we're good to go, I'm just making sure.

(01:07):
Does this sound OK? Yeah, OK.
Maybe a little louder. Maybe on.
Let me try that on my end. Oh yeah, try that nurse.
Happy to talk. Good.
Check check check 1-2 there we go Hello hello.
I also have my volume switch right here.
I can be. Oh, you're good, so I haven't.

(01:35):
Jesus, your audio is going through our interface and so
holy shit that oh I have to adjust the input on that one
that yours comes back through I guess so gotcha.
We also get more control. Holy shit that hit way harder

(01:58):
than the other one because it roasted the entire bowl all at
once. That's why I don't.
I don't pull it out. Yeah, I never pull out, OK.
Let me let me super size y'all real quick so I can see y'all's
nostrils. Yeah, you get that.
We put you on the TV because we used to do it on the little

(02:22):
computer and I was like, oh shit, can't see anyone.
This is this is honestly crazy right now that we're doing this.
This is super cool. I've been I've been waiting for
a long time for this. Dude, we have two.
I mean, we're talking about you all the time, man.
Seriously. Like, you know, people think
that like, we had another fan come on and she was tripping.

(02:44):
Louise. Yeah, Louise, she was tripping.
She was just like, Oh my gosh. I'm like really nervous and
like, dude, it's, it's, it's, it's good.
But she was like, Oh no, it's cool.
I'm just hanging out with my friends.
Yeah, yeah. And it's straight up, I mean,
you know, for people to 'cause they'll, they'll say shit,
they're like, oh, is that Emily?Yeah, that was the weirdest
thing when I was talking with Louise about it.

(03:07):
And I was like, oh, my girlfriend, she's like Emily.
And I'm like, yeah, she's like, I know you guys like, Oh yeah,
we, we kind of probably dripped out a lot of information over
5-6 years that Jesus, that you guys do feel way more connected
or like. Yeah, no, you guys are you,
you're super connected to us. I mean, especially if you listen

(03:29):
like I, I even think it's crazy.People listen to us like every
week. I mean, Kyle.
All the time. Kyle for a long time was like
did. You ever listen to all of it?
All the time. Bunch of times.
Dude, I yeah. Are we going yet?
Yeah, yeah, we're always going, dude.
No worry. We'll, we'll.
We can cut in. Yeah, well, now y'all could.
It's whatever. But yeah, yeah, dude, I listened

(03:50):
like when we, when I first started listening, it was like I
was getting back into it and I was having some issues with
anxiety and stuff and I was like, this is so weird.
This, this never used to be thisway.
So I was like, maybe I need to like I'm a terrible person.
I'll Google everything you know and research the hell out of
everything and like it's sometimes good and sometimes not

(04:13):
good, but I end up finding you on I think I was, I was using
Apple Podcasts at the time. But yeah, y'all popped right up
and it was like super early too.Like that y'all didn't have I
can't remember like. Oh, we weren't video.
We were audio only. Then yeah, we were straight up
audio. Yeah, and I remember like just

(04:35):
seeing like the reviews and stuff like 10 people or
something like that. And I was like, man, this is
super early. This is really cool.
And I started it and like obviously you know y'all, it
took a long time to get to this point where y'all have video and
like audio. And I know like with the mixing
and stuff like you had to get different microphones and like

(04:57):
just learn everything, you know,like how the process goes.
But that was super cool because I got to be there for the
beginning of it for basically for the most part and like just
watch the evolution of of. Everything.
And I mean, you're wearing our hoodie from the the logo your
wife designed. Yeah, like.
Dude, come on, I'm I'm telling you right now, that is the only

(05:20):
one I love. I love it.
Like seriously like I've always like thought of like how else
would I want to do? Cuz like that's the one that I
want printed on shirts. That's what I want on my hoodie,
that's what I want on a ball cap.
Like I love that one. That ones my favorite.
The way that the font that she chose the color scheme and then

(05:45):
how she made that that flower almost look like this 3D shell
cell shading like ultra dimensional type of like hue on
it. I love it.
Dude, that's my cannabis. Dude, I'm not to.
Tell I'm not to tell her that because she's like, she takes it
really serious. It's she's like she really
likes. Oh yeah, dude, we.

(06:06):
Did great work in general. We love her art.
Yeah, Kelly's amazing. Yeah, we needed, we need to be
showcasing her art just because.So we just need to tag it.
Oh, that'll be the logo for the Episode 2.
Hell yeah. So cuz that's.
Cool. She's she's I mean, seriously,
that that's the one like when I pull that out, like I still
treat that that hoodie with reverence.
That one and and the one that Brandon designed about Indica

(06:29):
days and. And with the cheetah and the
sloth. Indica days is like the sativa
days and the indica nights. So anytime I like wearing it out
out in public, like you get likeolder people like like leering
at me. But then you'll get like dudes
that are middle-aged and then down.
Yeah, they just go those. Are the looks I get when I wear

(06:51):
my World's Sluttiest Dad hoodie.I get like so many dirty looks
from like older people. Or I get like this really old
lady at Costco was busting up laughing and she's like, oh, do
you get like the weirdest comments?
And I'm like some people, some people like give me dirty looks
and like scowl at me. And other people are like, how
do I get that for my husband? Dude, I that's, that's so funny

(07:15):
because like, yeah, like it's, it's like Utah, bro.
Like is don't say it's the wrongway, but like such a weird place
to legalize it because it's likeespecially at Salt Lake because
like y'all are such a like Mormon based Christian.
Like there's a ton of Christian like ton of, you know, religious
people there. So it's like you're like there's

(07:37):
this whole group of people that are, you know, cannabis
enthusiasts and then the other half is like completely the
opposite. So it's like, of course you're
gonna get like a ton of dirty looks.
I didn't even think about that. I'm like y'all make it sound
like y'all living here. Yeah, I know for sure we do.
I mean, but you know what's cool?
Like just last night, I was gonna tell you this.

(07:57):
There's this a woman that we know, she reaches out to my wife
and says, hey, my mother-in-law,she's in so much pain.
She has stage 4 like liver failure.
Oh man. And because she has a lot of
liver, she has a lot of, she hasa fatty liver.

(08:17):
So they're trying to get her to lose weight.
Well, not only that, her knees are completely bone on bone.
So she's in tremendous amounts of pain and they're like, we
can't give you anything. The only thing you can take is
Tylenol. And they're putting her on 3000
milligrams of Tylenol a day. That's insane.
Right. That's not that's not healthy at

(08:38):
all. Well, now it's affecting her
kidneys. So they told her that she has to
stop the Tylenol. And so she reached out to my
wife. She goes, is there?
Is this would CBD help there? And I'm like, yeah, but I kind
of look at CBD like the multivitamin of the cannabis
world, like it's something you should take, you know, it's,
it's not going to be like, oh man, you know, this made all the

(08:59):
difference in the world. But THC combined with all the
other terpenes, yes, you're going to get those therapeutic
things. So she's like scared 70 year old
woman out of no options. And she just goes, I, I just
don't want to use, I don't want to smoke it.
So the lady reaches out and she's like, hey, would you talk

(09:19):
to her? So on my drive home from my
office, I was talking to her about it.
And by the time I got to my house, she was completely like,
she goes so I'm not going to be weird.
And I'm like, look, the only thing that's going to happen is
that like I'm going to see you in six months at your house
wearing a tie dye shirt and you're going to have like a ray

(09:41):
of bong. You're.
Going. To have a bong a day and you're
going to be roll. Yeah, exactly.
I said. You're going to be listen to the
Grateful Dead. And she just started laughing.
And I said, look, yeah. I said I would recommend going
list my podcast, but I'm a I'm abit crass.
I was like former United States Navy.
And she goes, that's OK. My husband's a sailor too.

(10:02):
And then I just started laughing.
I'm like, fuck, yeah. So that's funny.
But you know, this old lady. Yeah, you're exactly right.
Like you have the exact same. You're in the Bible Belt.
Yeah. I mean, it's straight up like
the judgement that comes from these so-called Christians.
And I'm calling them all out right, like every single one of

(10:23):
them, they, they all want to judge instead of being able to
go and like, well, man, he lookslike he's in a pretty good mood.
Go talk to that individual. I mean, you know, I, I could, I
could accept some overly enthusiastic brainwashed Mormon
LDS missionary kids over to my house if I've got the proper
weed. If.

(10:43):
He, yeah, I'm way more prone to talk to someone if I'm like, not
dealing with all this shit goingon in my head.
If I'm like really elevated and I'm going out, I'm way more to
just like, say hi to the person at the store, talk with them,
ask about their day because I'm like, yeah, I'm just like really
present and happy in this present moment.

(11:05):
So today we're talking with Kyle.
Kyle Kyle Trevor's been one of our favorite audience members
since like, the start messaging us, hitting us up with questions
like. We tried to play just
connecting, we tried to race with you.
I I did try to race once. We did, yeah.

(11:27):
Yeah, actually, that's funny. I thought about that the other
day. That was like, I was like, we
we've known each other for such a long time.
I'm like, this is so cool. And like I'm, I'm the one of the
first, you know what I'm saying to like, I'm sure I'm not, but
like. I'm no you are like legit and.
That's cool. Like that makes me feel really
cool. And then I'm like, man, we've
like done so many things together even though we have it.

(11:48):
And no, we have. We've raced and stuff like yeah.
It's cool. We talk to each other all the
time, like send you messages, You send me messages like it's
probably at least once a month that we're video chatting or
like sending back for something so.
Yeah, I was a psychopath in the beginning bro.
I'd send you like 8 messages in like a span of like 30 seconds,

(12:09):
like 8 videos, you know, like. Well, it's because it would have
a time or something. You're just like talking and
we're just having a conversation.
So it was great and I love that because you had so much depth
behind your questions behind like what you were trying to
understand and it really allowedfor this real connection.

(12:29):
And now it's, you know, we're going on.
Jesse and I were talking about this before this last episode.
Like this will be year 6 or we're in year.
We're going towards Year 6. Yeah, June.
That's nuts. Wow, that's nice.
How long were y'all doing it before I started messaging you?

(12:50):
It hasn't been six years for me.No, June would be.
June 29th is when we launched, so June 29th 2026 will be 6
years. Yeah, you were like, so your
fall time. Probably a few months into that
though. Oh wow, so.
That's all. Yeah, it's.
Been It's been five years at least.
Hell yeah dude, it's been 5. Years.
I didn't think it was five years.

(13:11):
That's nuts. Yeah.
Well, and and I wanted to say, man, you know, psychopath, that
you have to understand that our intent was not to we we didn't
know it would do what it's it what it's done today, right,
which is it reaches so many people.
And I'm going to go back to Louise from last time.
I wasn't getting choked up by the way my throat's straw, but

(13:34):
it's fine. God, God piss at you.
But no, but what I, I wanted to say, man, is that she had said
that she goes, no, it's cool. I'm, I'm, I'm talking with my
friends. You are a friend, man.
Like anybody that reaches out tous.
Like it's always funny because you did that and we thought that

(13:55):
was so cool. And then randomly people would
do that. They would reach out and they
hit us up on Messenger or something and they would send us
a message and then we'd reply right back.
And they're like, Oh my God, youresponded like you.
I was like, and I was like, well, we're just two dudes in a
garage. Like, yes, Brandon and Jesse,
like we're known special, you know?

(14:15):
Send us a message. Hit us up.
You know we are cool. Yeah, it was cool.
It was like like I just heard y'all in my in my head for like
the I don't know how long I was until I hit y'all up, but for a
little bit and then you're like there and it was like your face
like, 'cause you videoed me backand I was just like, holy crap,
like his face is right here. Like, I don't know, it was, it

(14:37):
was weird. Like it was, it was cool, like
really cool. And like it was the same we did.
I did the same thing with the local weatherman here.
Like he's he's been doing the weather like on the channel for
like God, 30 or 40 years or whatever.
Like he's like, he's just like alocal famous person kind of
right. And I was, I was mowing one of

(14:58):
my customers yards and he just walked by on the sidewalk and I
was like, holy shit, that's Doppler Dave.
That's his name. And I just, I stopped my mow and
I was like, dude, I was like, you're Doppler Dave.
And he was like, yeah, man. And I was just like, what's the
weather looking like today? And it was so cool though,
'cause I was just like, man, like it's normal people just

(15:21):
like me. But it's just, it's different, I
guess whenever you, I don't know, perception, I guess or or
whatever. Yeah, well, I meant the the
doctor from Scrubs, the black doctor.
I don't know his name. He was in the airport.
Black doctor, that's his if you.Saw what you were talking about.
Yeah, I can't. Think of his name.
But yeah, I know what you're talking.

(15:41):
About great funny, him and his wife were on the tram from like
leaving the airport in Houston at the same time as me and my
ex-wife. And we're sitting right across
from them. I know I we like kind of lean
over like South Haven. We pull it up on yeah, that's,
that's them. And so we just talked to them
like just as humans. I didn't mention that we saw

(16:03):
recognize them or knew them fromlike the show that they were in.
It was just talk to them about like, oh, how's your day going?
Like, oh, this flight is crazy. Like it's just been.
And it was interesting. Just talk to them like people.
And then I was like, alright, enjoy your day.
Didn't mention any of that. And it was, I don't know.
They appreciate that. I, I get, I would, I would

(16:24):
assume that they would appreciate it.
You know, it's the weirdness that people have like, you know,
I, I remember and it wasn't anything special.
It was Henry Winkler, if you know who Henry Winkler is.
So he was a big actor in the 70s.
He was on a show called Happy Days.
He played the Fonz, right? Everybody know the Fonz, right.

(16:47):
So he played that guy. Then he was in a bunch of he was
in a in an Adam Sandler movie. What's it called?
The waterboy? Oh yeah, where he's the coach.
Oh yeah, Oh my. Goodness, he's like, you know,
he's like got the tattoo of Roy over so not his ass cheek or
something. He goes what, your Mama doesn't
know it doesn't hurt her and he pulls down his ass cheek to show
that. Oh.

(17:07):
Wow, yeah. I love those movies, dude.
But we saw him in in Atlanta airport, my dad and I, we were
coming back from seeing my brother graduate from boot camp
and my dad was just being reallystrange.
He's like, Oh my God, it's him. I'm like, yeah, wow.

(17:30):
I bet he has complaints too, that he, he hates getting swamp
ass by flying everywhere, right?And just sweating all the time.
Like I'm I treat them as a regular person.
So I was like, hey, man, what's up?
But he's like, hey. And I could tell this like
uncomfortableness about him. Like fuck I just want to eat my
food. Oh yeah, Especially if you're

(17:52):
out at a restaurant or somethinglike I can see that being.
And I'm, I'm just really loving and, and jovial anyway, so I
just say, hey, what's up, man? How are you?
You know, if the guy's got little gloomy face on them and
you know, I just just to be nice, but I don't, I don't think
anybody special. Like that was their job.
They did that job like nobody comes over to like, you know,

(18:15):
congratulate Brandon as he's over at the Del Taco.
And the guy's like, man, the wayyou edited that last week, my
goodness. And Brandon would appreciate the
shit out of that. He'd be like, they should.
What do you, what do you, what do you think of it?
He's like, yeah, the way you head all the audio and.
It was great. Yes, thank you so much.
I was so high. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

(18:35):
But we don't get congratulated for it.
Like the things that you do, man, like the passions you do,
the work you've done. Like I really respect you man.
Like you put in hard work, you do something that other people
are just like, yeah, that'd be nice to do.
Like you can get at it, you can get at it and any way and be
successful with it. But man, I mean, the fact that

(18:59):
you've listened to us like all of our stuff bunch of times, I
mean that even dude, that's a big compliment to us, so.
Oh, dude, yeah. It's, it's like I was trying to
say earlier, like, I don't know where the tangent went, but
like, I, I've been listening fora long time and like in the
beginning I was just listening to everything and like I was,

(19:20):
there was this episode, I can't remember what it was called, but
you, Jesse, were talking about like one of the times that you
like threw up and you were with this friend or something like
that. Yeah.
And you got like super stoned and then you end up throwing up
in her bathroom and stuff at that.

(19:41):
Woke up. And Oh my God, dude, I laughed
so hard at that episode. I was like, I listen.
I literally, I've listened to that episode so many times
because I go to that part and I'm dying because like the way
you explained it or the way you just talked about it or
whatever. Like so funny, man.
Like, oh. Man, obviously probably not

(20:02):
funny at the time. But like, no, no, it was, it was
like it was that night, man, It was, it was so chill.
I remember it, it was this like really questionable neighborhood
like it's the worst place. Like pick out.
Oh wow, yeah, where you are at fine.
Like ghetto place and that's. Where I was at, I feel it now,

(20:25):
yeah. And the only reason why I'm
there is 'cause I'm thinking I'mgoing to get some ass.
So I mean, we'll all do anythingstupid for ass, right?
We're just like especially. As a young guy, you're like, oh
man, go to the end there's. Like I'm, I'm terrified of
heights. And some girls like, yeah, we're
going to be like going rock climbing.
I'm like, fuck yeah, I love rockclimbing.

(20:45):
Yeah, right. Shaking the whole like do.
You have Parkinson's. All the time.
No no, I hit the gym before thisso my muscles are murdered and
I'm fucking scared but my penis is telling me that I could.
Do it like you just hit your pants.
No, no, this came this way. Nope.
No. This weird pets.
Hilarious. Like, yeah, I know what I'm

(21:06):
doing, I'm fine. Yeah, yeah, it's.
Great, but I get there and and she's a questionable person too.
And I I'm there and she's just like, hey, you want to smoke
some weed? And the, and the only experience
I'd had with weed up to this point was when I was getting out
of the Navy, when I was processing out, like I smoked a
joint with my friend. I loved it.

(21:27):
Then the next time we had this blunt going to this party, we're
supposed to meet, all these girls ended up playing cards in
the middle of this party, mostlywomen.
And it was me and these two other guys so stoned we just
couldn't do anything. And I ended up just laying on
the couch and falling asleep. So I didn't have a whole lot of

(21:48):
experience when she did this. I was, I was just being me.
I'm just joking around, having agood time.
And the more kept going and she just loads up another bowl.
But I was just like, it's that moment where you're drinking and
you go, and yeah, I should probably stop, but you're having
such a good time that you're thinking.
I know one more one. More hurt.

(22:09):
Yeah, now, immediately when thatred flag comes up, like you
can't ignore it. And if you do it just like
punches you back in the face andit's like we told you, bitch.
Yeah, exactly. We.
Told. You totally, Warden.
We gave you signs. Yeah.
I I have like, I don't have a shoulder, Angel.
I have a shoulder, Christopher Walken.

(22:30):
And, you know, I look over and I'm going.
Do you think we should do it? I don't know.
I mean, you could, but it's up to you, right?
Hey at. Least he's giving you options.
No, and then he just always doesn't mean more cowbell,
right. But I mean it's it's literally
like, Oh, I'd make the worst decisions when I was younger on
it, but it was it was funny, though.

(22:51):
I mean literally like when I'm, I imagine like if I made a movie
out of it, like I was laughing less and less.
Slow down. At that fucking staring at the
ground and she's like, hey, what's wrong?
You were having such a good timeearlier, what's wrong with you?
And I'm like. Just thinking about my mom.

(23:14):
I'm just, no, I'm like, I'm likenot wanting to move because
every time I do the earth, the earth is having a quake.
It's like a it's like A7 or A8 Richter.
Yeah. And it was so fresh and, and if
I think back to it, it was like the worst weed.
It was fucking weak. But back then I hadn't

(23:35):
experienced anything like that. And a lot of the reasons, like
at the first of the show, we kept talking about were like,
and we, and, and a lot of it came from the grow.
A lot of it came from the grow because we were, we were talking
about it and all. I kept telling them on the
marketing side, 'cause I had heard this thing from Gary Vee a

(23:56):
little before. Brandon's like, hey, you should
look into this. And Gary Vee had said, you know,
marijuana is going to be one of the biggest money makers out
there. We just got to figure out how to
sell it. And all I kept thinking, like,
yeah, you need to be able to figure out a time where it can
be as normalized as getting a cheeseburger.

(24:17):
Like, nobody's going to hate on you or judge you going.
Oh, it's Janet. She always smells like
cheeseburgers. Fucking bitch.
She's horrible. She's not going to heaven, You
know? I mean stuff like that, Yeah.
That's hilarious. Could you imagine I.
Don't, but I mean put it that. Something shows up to church
here. They are smelling like fucking

(24:38):
cheeseburgers again. Well, you're not getting into
heaven. For those who choose not to eat
pork, it'd be like showing up totheirs going Is that is that
Kahlua pork I smell? Yeah, it's it's good.
Hell's got a nice warm seat ready for you.
Yeah, can't believe you ate thatmeat.

(24:59):
Kyle, do you remember your firsttime getting high?
I do, yeah. I was so back in my senior.
I think senior year of high school might have been it might
have been junior junior year of of high school or hold on give

(25:22):
me one yeah OK, yeah so junior year of high school right IK 2
was going around don't ask me, but like so this is my friends
are all doing right they're doing they're smoking spice yes
cheese and so we're golly so like.

(25:43):
That took me a second. Yeah, man.
And at the time, Mac Miller was like blowing up.
RIP, Rest in peace. But like Mac Miller was blowing
up everywhere around high school.
And like, it was the coolest thing because everybody was
coming to school with like the most dope shirts and stuff.
And there was this, there was this guy that was like super

(26:04):
popular. And so like everybody wanted to
hang out with him. And he was a huge Stoner too.
And he would, he would walk around like the Mac Miller stuff
on him and everything. And we went to his house one
night and smoked spice. Now I hit it like 3 or 4 times,
didn't get anything, didn't feelnothing.
So I don't know if I just didn'tdo it right or what.
But you hear stories like sometimes people are like, oh,

(26:27):
the first time just didn't, didn't happen for me, right?
And so anyway, that was like technically the first time, but
I didn't feel it. And then I the first, the
technically the first time was with my manager from McDonald's,
I. I think it's just, I think it's.

(26:50):
Done. He asked me.
He asked me. He was like, did you do you want
to smoke? And I'm like, I don't do that.
And he was like, well, let's just just hang out with me after
work. And so it was like, I think we
got off like 10 or 11 at night and he was just like, yeah, I
just, I smoke and just drive around.
That's what I do. And I listen to metal music and

(27:12):
hip hop music and whatever. All right, so I was like, all
right. Like that's cool, man.
So like we ended up doing that and it was just like, and that's
whenever I experienced it for the first time.
So was that spice that time too?Or was that one?
No, it wasn't. That was cannabis.
OK, OK. And and that's yeah, that was
like my very first memories of. Do you remember feeling it that

(27:36):
first time in the car that. I, yeah, I, I just remember my
body was like vibrating almost, you know, Yeah.
And I just, it felt like I was in a dream.
Yep. That's kind of like the best way
that I could describe it was a very vivid dream because.
And that's really like, to be honest with you, I've been

(27:58):
trying to like, think it, think about like how I can explain it,
you know? Yeah, I've never really been
able to explain it very well, but that'd probably be the best
way actually to explain it. Now that I'm thinking about it
is it's kind of like a dream. Time slowed down on mine, yeah.
Same. Yeah, same.
Because I I didn't actually realize that I was feeling it

(28:19):
until I headed home. Because I had socially smoked
with friends and the very first time I honestly don't think I
felt it. I just felt like I acted stupid
because that's what I perceived.Hi people in movies and things
did. But then after that I'm like, I
actually never acted anything like that any other time I
smoked and I didn't feel different in that moment.

(28:41):
So the first time I experienced it was months later and I was
driving home after because I'm like, well, I feel just fine.
And as I'm driving, all of a sudden I feel like I'm going 70
miles an hour down 800 N and Provo, which is a 25 mile an
hour thing. And I'm going, oh, fuck.
So I look down, I'm going 2022 miles an hour.

(29:04):
I'm going under the speed limit here.
It's 2:00 in the morning. There's not a soul on the road.
But that thing of going like, whoa, this moment felt so
incredibly like this moment. Everything was seeming so
different than it ever had. Maybe like a dream.
Like it's just a very. That's such a great way to

(29:28):
describe it as a dream, like I was just reliving not
necessarily the first time I used cannabis, but when I felt
the most. High.
Euphoric. OK, I remember listening to a
book from Graham Hancock about America before and.
That would be an interesting. And I took these hits off a pen

(29:50):
and I was going to mow my lawn. My lawn is not at the time, my
Mulan is not big. And it would take me at least
two hours because I was so fucking high that I would go
like I was so like focused. But it was great because the,
the vibrations from the lawn mower was kind of soothing and I

(30:10):
had my headphones on and, you know, and I'm half Mexican, so
it's like in my blood to mow. And so I I mowed these lawns.
That's hilarious. And and but I just wanted
everything perfect, but I was really like enjoying myself.

(30:31):
And you did you do landscaping? Is that if I'm if I'm right?
Yeah, I own my own company, Yeah.
And is it the same way? Cuz I feel like that is manual
labor with the right strain is just rewarding in its own way.
Yeah, so I, so when I first, when I stopped and when I

(30:53):
stopped smoking in like 2016 or 17, I didn't smoke for a year or
two and then I, you know, I try to get back into it and it was
just really tough. So for the last ever since I've
known y'all really, I haven't really been able to like relax
and actually like really fully enjoy the benefit of it until

(31:15):
literally like 3 weeks ago. And I was telling Brandon this,
but like, it's fucking nuts, dude.
Because that's when I usually like to is when I'm away from
family, I'm away from the house.I don't want to smoke in the
house, you know, like, and it kind of makes it easier for the
time to go by, I guess. And like, that's kind of sounds

(31:36):
weird like because it's kind of slows the time down at the same
time. But it's just, it's just like a
such a just an addition to like what you're doing, I guess.
Because yeah, you're doing physical labor.
It's not some of it's not fun. You're just, it's and it's
repetitive and it's, sometimes it's, yeah, sometimes it's do

(31:58):
you just need something else Like like you'll be over the day
and it's already, it's only like10:00 in the morning and you're
like, fuck, I got to do, you know, so much more.
So let me have some fun while I'm doing it, right?
And that was my whole goal. Like I was, that's what I was
trying to do, but I just, I couldn't.
Enjoy the same. Yes, man, I just couldn't enjoy

(32:18):
actually enjoy it for whatever Ifor what I started when I first
started, you know, like I was enjoying it and then something
happened and so yeah, these. Past even cannabis, it was you
kind of had a found coffee too. You're saying that more things
you were finding that you were feeling anxious and that from so

(32:39):
you took a break from all of that.
Yeah. So we can, I can, I can start
like from the beginning and we can like go through it and
stuff. But the past, through the past
2-3 weeks, I've actually like, Iguess had a breakthrough, I
guess. I don't know, like I just was
enjoying it. Like, and then I'm just not
worried about it anymore. But yeah, well, so I'll take it

(33:01):
back. So in 2017, I had moved out of
my apartment and I had to move back in with my mom.
And I was like, you know, struggling and all this stuff.
And I had just gotten off a harddrug.
So I was, you know, there was a lot of other things I was doing.
It wasn't very good. But in whenever I move back in

(33:25):
with my mom, I quit everything because I was like, I need to
figure my life out. All this stuff.
And I, I had my mom didn't have room for me in the house, so I
had to live in the shed. So the shed is in the backyard,
and it's probably as big as thisroom.
Bro that's got to get so hot in Texas.

(33:46):
Like, yeah, dude, it's. Going to get so hot.
Just wait, yeah, it's going to get spicy.
And so I freaking move in. I move in and like, I'm like,
all right, I'm going to put my bed in here and everything and
like all this stuff. And I moved in, I think right
before the winter. So.
And here in the Panhandle of Texas, it's like fucking cold

(34:08):
and fucking hot. There's no in between.
So. And it's just all over the
place. It's up and down and so, and I
had a space heater in there and it's like heating blanket that I
had and that's where I slept like and everything.
And I bought my, I bought a bicycle and I went and looked
for a job and my friend was working at this restaurant in

(34:31):
the town I lived in. And I, that's where I went to
work and I ride my bike there every day.
And just like saving money and just being sober.
And the problem though is that Iwas before, before I quit, I was
probably smoking between a quarter, well maybe at the

(34:57):
height of it, probably 1/4 a day.
That's a lot of button one day. Yeah, so I was smoking a lot and
I did that from 18 to 2020, five, probably 24.
And and so it was just every single day, like that's just all

(35:18):
I did. And it when I whenever I
stopped, it really fucked me up because I was in my body wasn't
used to not being stoned anymoreall the time.
And that's whenever I think the whole world for like, it was
just crumbling around me and it kind of was too at the same

(35:42):
time. COVID time.
Nah, it was before that. It was, it was right before
COVID, right before, I think it was like a year.
But when did COVID start? 2020, January.
I mean it. Yeah, roughly.
I. Think that's when my company had
gone remote was January 2020. Yeah, I think even like COVID

(36:03):
started before that, like overseas, didn't it?
Yeah. I think like overseas it was
like 2018. I think so, yeah.
It's very possible because it was, yeah.
And so anyway, so I, so the whole world was like kind of
like crumbling around me. And I because I was living with

(36:26):
my mom too, I was living in the shed like it was, I wasn't in a
good place in life. So that I think kind of with
that, along with just not being able to cope how I used to cope,
which really wasn't like in a healthy way.
Like I, I used cannabis in the beginning to like run away from
my problems. And so it allowed me to like

(36:49):
just not worry about anything, which wasn't good either because
I'm like, I'm not going anywhere.
I'm just kind of like escaping and all the all these things.
And so, yeah, when when the realworld reintroduced itself to me
sober, I just didn't know how tohandle it.

(37:11):
And I was having panic attacks like every day.
And it was, it was bad, dude. Like it was like the anxiety of
it all was just too much like. How long was it till you started
to feel normal again after that?Oh, like, I mean like, I guess

(37:31):
it took to to feel. I'm going to be honest, it's
been like maybe two years ago that I feel back to normal, to
be honest with you now, like nownow like back then when all that
stuff started, it's be probably like 6 months to a year to like

(37:54):
really to, to feel to be in a better spot.
But I had like anxiety, like pretty bad all the way through
like maybe two years ago. And I didn't have that before,
like even before I started smoking, I didn't have that.
And so I just, I think I, I think I smoked way too much for

(38:18):
a long time and just did way toomuch of it.
And then whenever I stopped immediately my body is like,
what the heck, dude? Where you know?
It'd be a big shock, yeah. Yeah.
And so just I think the changes of of not doing that anymore and
then with all these other life things that were happening, I

(38:39):
had to get custody of my son at the same time that this was all
happening. So it was extremely stressful.
I had to go to court several times.
The government was involved likeit was that's.
Always sensible. Yeah, so like, it was a lot of
things. It wasn't just like cannabis,
like cannabis obviously I think had like a factor to do with it,

(39:00):
but I think it was just like everything about my life at the
time too, was just it was reallydifficult.
And it's like at at the most difficult point of my life is
when I stopped smoking. So it also was kind of difficult
to handle all that. And even going back to like when

(39:21):
I first started smoking, like when I first started smoking in
2012, like the beginning of 2012, I was, I already had my
son. He was like a year, a year old
or something like that. And just the whole experience,
it was a really traumatic experience, everything.

(39:44):
And I just couldn't handle it. And I, I wanted to run away.
You know what I'm saying? Like just because like kids are
not supposed to have kids, man. Like there's a reason why
they're not supposed to. Like I was not.
Yeah, I. Didn't know what the fuck I was
doing at 17. That's like half of Utah.
Half of Utah gets married at super young starts popping up

(40:05):
babies right away. Used to the the average is
dropped. Are they getting older?
Yeah, they're dead in like mid 20s.
Good in a way. Good a bit.
There's the yeah. I just mean, if that's where
they're starting to have kids, no.
And that's. It well, they're yeah, no, I've
had a very. Young.

(40:25):
But it was a different population then.
I mean, I've even thought about that.
I mean, I wouldn't trust a 25 year old today to have a child.
And the only reason why is because they just didn't have
enough struggle. Like Kyle, like listening to
what you've gone through, the struggle has kind of shaped no,
and not kind of it shaped you tobe to this point, right?

(40:49):
Like where where I'm hearing like, and I feel you, man.
There's times both Brandon and Ican totally contest this where
you don't realize how much you smoked that day when you've got
nothing going on. You're trying to fill your day
with purpose and you've kind of just hit a wall with any type of

(41:11):
progression whatsoever, right? So I feel you.
Like you're just like, yeah, you're just smoking a ton.
And you realize that you're like, oh man, this is a lot.
I'm going through a lot. Well, looks like I need to go to
Dragonfly again. Like, I mean, and with a no
money, you know, fucking nothingcoming in and you're like, what
am I supposed to do? Oh, I'll just smoke it away.

(41:32):
So I know exactly what you're feeling, man.
I'd say like year two of our podcast.
That's how I felt. Yeah, yeah, man, it was like,
and it did the job, you know what I'm saying?
I'm not saying it didn't, but itwas just like I, I got
introduced to it in a way that was like, let me just.
Escape. From my problems, yeah.

(41:54):
And like and then two on top that like the whole stigma of it
in general didn't help it it either because it was just like
I felt like something to do whenyou were being like rebellious
or just like this is what teenagers do like they do stuff
they're not supposed to you knowwhat I'm saying so then you have
this idea of cannabis. It's like you're not supposed to
do it, you know, And so. I actually saw something on that

(42:16):
the other day and it made me kind of think about even how we
approach it sometimes. And it was, you know, cannabis
has now become so much of this health and Wellness thing that
there has to be a reason attached now to your cannabis
consumption versus before. Often it was just joy,

(42:37):
community, joy. Being happy had nothing to do
with, well, I'm using it for this ailment or I'm using it for
this one, or here's my Wellness plan or this that I'm doing with
it. I was like, no, I just like
feeling fucking happy. That's why I'm using it.
Yeah, And it's not even feeling stoned anymore.
Like, you can tell now, Kyle, because it's like, and I can
understand, like how even your body was kind of like when you

(42:59):
kind of try to get back into it and it was just not working for
you. Your body was still experiencing
like, almost a traumatic experience.
Because, you know, I believe that there's things that imprint
on us, whether it's one of our senses, words that were said,
you know, everything that's associated with it.

(43:21):
So when something like that is tied to traumatic time in your
life, it can be. And you were consuming it all
the time. Like you were holding on to it,
not as a blankie, but of like a fucking rope.
Like, I don't want to fucking deal with this on my own.
And you let go. Like that's a hard hit.

(43:42):
Yeah, that was that was that wastraumatic.
And so then I just kind of like forced it kind of like led me to
do all these things and like I'mfortunately it was a gateway to
other things. And so I did.
I did all these other things that were really bad and.
Do you think it's because of thepeople that you are around that
were doing more things? I think so.

(44:05):
I mean, I definitely think I wasinfluenced by my manager, the
person that I had grew to be friends with and all stuff.
He actually got me into everything else.
So if it wasn't for him, I don'tknow if I would have.
I might have still, but it definitely, I think he was the
gateway. Actually, let's just say that he

(44:26):
was the gateway. Your vulnerability was that
gateway, right? I mean, you're at a point where
you're just like, fuck, I want to feel something different
other than stress. Constant fucking stress.
And when somebody's like, dude, this shit's awesome.
They're like, if this is awesome, this has got to be
really cool too, right? And that's where the
vulnerability of our lives, that's where you get these

(44:49):
gateways, right? Gateways of vulnerability.
Crazy dude. Yeah, we were.
We were before, you know it, it was like cocaine and then it was
Adderall and then I was mixing it with cocaine, which is was
awesome, by the way. Don't.
Don't do it. No, I've done cocaine before
dude. I know like I only did it like
1/2 full of times that I know why I don't deal with it anymore

(45:10):
because it's it's awesome. Yeah, it was like it got crazy
and then and then, and then at one point we were smoking meth,
you know, And that's when I really was like, man, I'm, I'm
in. I'm in deep, you know what I'm
saying? You felt that like when you
started smoking meth, Like did you feel that like kind of, I

(45:33):
don't know, it just sound like astory arcade just like this is
just passing over of this bridgeof fuck.
Yeah, that the first time it waslike I called my friend and I
like I couldn't stop talking on the phone 'cause I was just like
all hyped up and stuff and I wason the phone for like 3 hours

(45:54):
talking to him, but it didn't feel like 3 hours.
It just felt, I don't know, it was just.
Are you always messed up when you call me?
I know, right? It was like coke.
It was like Coke, but like on 1000.
Yeah, you know, and I could imagine.
That was the first time I got hooked to something.
And it wasn't like I wasn't hooked.

(46:16):
Like, I guess let me rephrase. Like, I wasn't like going and
looking for it, but I knew that,like, I would see him on the
weekend or I'd see my friend like every other weekend or
whatever, and there'd probably be an opportunity to do it.
So yeah, you're like, I wasn't. I wasn't turning it down, you
know. But you weren't actively

(46:38):
seeking. It I wasn't like itching for it,
like, Oh my God, you know, like that happened later.
Yeah, that happened later, but. How long did that take to create
that Jonesing or? Not very long.
I think it was like, 'cause I mean, I hadn't done it.
I did wasn't doing it all the time yet.
So it was a little bit slower ofour process, but it ended up

(47:01):
getting to the point where like I lost 80 lbs, I think, while I
was working at McDonald's. Bro.
And I'm, I'm like a tall skinny.They like to call me skinny.
You know what? I hate it when people call me
skinny. You know why?
Have you ever seen me? Oh my God bro I'm like a fucking
twink. Dude, no.
I'm not skinny, I'm healthy. Like, yeah, just.

(47:23):
You know, whatever you got to tell yourself here again.
Wow. Anyway, So yeah, I was, I lost a
bunch of weight. So I was like, I was 6 two and I
was like probably 110 pounds, 120.
Shit. I'm sorry.
Yeah. That is skinny.
That's skinny at that time. Holy shit.
Yeah, I was. I was skinny man.
And I remember my my manager pulled me into the office as a

(47:44):
different manager. He pulled me in the office.
Go. Ahead.
Keep going, keep going. He he pulled me into the office
and he was like, dude, you OK? And I was like, I was like,
what? You mean like, yeah, I'm fine.
And he was like, no, are you, are you OK?
And I was like, and I just couldsee it in his face because he
want to, he want to like directly.

(48:04):
Ask me. What he wanted to ask me, but
but like, I knew that moment, like he knows something's up.
Yeah. And I just immediately broke
down. I was crying in the in the, you
know, office and stuff like that.
And that's, that's when I made achange and was like, I can't do
this anymore. And so I stopped for a while and

(48:30):
I can't even remember on the in the withdrawal.
I remember just not being hungryat all obviously, and I remember
sleeping a shit. And.
I had this yeah and I had this like really bad taste in my
mouth for like 2 weeks. It was bad and my teeth like I

(48:53):
had like a tooth that was like infected like it was it was
yeah, it was bad and then it wasover with.
I got it was done and I was OK, but luckily I think because I
didn't, I didn't let it. I didn't.
I was lucky because I I wasn't doing it all the time.

(49:14):
Didn't fully consume you. Yes, exactly.
And so which is crazy because I'm a super, I have a super
addictive personality. And so I think I just got lucky
where it was like I was able to quit because I wasn't doing it
so much all the time. And I remember, I still remember

(49:38):
doing it after that, even after that, it was just, that was the
moment that was like, hey, you need to realize what you're
doing. And I think that was like 2013,
I think. And then when I fully quit
everything hard, all the hard stuff, I think it was like 2015.

(50:00):
And then that's when I was just like smoking weed heavy until
2017. And then that's whenever I had
to move back in with my mom. So yeah, that's just kind of
like the story. And I think there was somewhere
I was like trying to go with that to connect everything.
No, no, no, I'm digging it because I, you know, from what
I'm hearing and it's just it made me smile because, you know,

(50:24):
I'm in a I'm in a very happy state.
That's why I'm lighting up another bowl, but there because
it just slowed everything down for me.
But what you described in addiction, you described how
love, the love experiences for people.
Think about it, right? I mean, the way you described
looking forward to seeing your boss is like looking forward to

(50:45):
seeing your woman when you don'tsee it for three days, right?
Like back in the early time, like you were like, oh man, I'm
so excited to see him 'cause I'mgoing to feel real good.
This is going to be awesome, right?
And then you start seeing them more and then you start seeing
them more. And then it's every day you want
to wake with them, you want to go to sleep with them.

(51:08):
And it's, it's truly like what you described is this whole
experience of, of being in love,but it, it was just bringing you
down. And you knew that like when he
asked you like, hey, you know something wrong and it, you knew
something was wrong, but you just like, I can't fight this.
Like I'm in love. Like I, I, dude, I, I was with

(51:28):
this one woman before I met my wife, like, and she was, I mean,
even if, if, if this woman watches it, you were fucking
horrible for my life, absolutelyfucking horrible.
And it was a couple of those, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
It wasn't one of those. I'll jump on the grenade for the
platoon. It was one of those, like, what
are you doing? Like, I don't know, dude.

(51:51):
I just thought, you know, juggling chainsaws that were on
fire would be a good idea today.And trying it blindfolded.
Yeah, why not? Why not?
It's Wednesday. But when we have these like,
really horrible relationships and yeah, at the time, we feel
like we're in love. And what you described for me
was in in addiction because it kind of changed my mindset just

(52:13):
there right away when you were describing it was you were
experiencing love. And how can I judge somebody if
they were experiencing what theyfelt was love, even if they were
deceived? That's hard, right?
And that judgement that is felt for people who I judge the shit
out. I got a sister, she's been

(52:34):
addicted to hard drugs for over 30 years, right?
She's in her close to mid 40s. Yeah, you know, and she's just
still, you know, and it's fucking tragic, but she's so far
gone that I, there's no reachingback.
She's so in love. Think about that.
Somebody's so in love. We've lost friends and family

(52:55):
from, from love. You're like, dude, that girl's
straight up poison. You're like, I'm not fucking
talking to you anymore. I'm just telling you.
They're fucking poison. They're hurting you, right?
Yeah. It's the same thing, man.
And so you just changed my perception of addiction to
they're in love. So yeah, we got to.

(53:17):
I mean, it's you can't convince them going that bitch is
horrible for you. Like if you said something like
that to your friend, no wonder why they get.
Pissed. They're like, yeah, don't talk
to me, fuck off. Yeah, yeah.
Don't you know? But then it's my girl.
But if they can come slowly at you going, hey man, I'm noticing
some things and I'm just concerned.
But you know, I'm here for you. I love you and I want to support

(53:37):
you throughout this. And I think that kind of
approach would be really helpfulfor those like, like your
manager. All they had to say is, are you
OK? Man?
You were right there. You just wanted somebody to ask
you. Yeah, yeah, man, it was.
It was. Yeah, you're right.
You're exactly right. And it was.
And it's crazy because before all the stuff before, like

(54:03):
having my first kid, all these things, like just the experience
with that situation and everything, like I think that
truly that just like tainted my soul.
Like I was happier. Like I was just different.
I was a different kid before that happened, you know?
And then afterward, it just changed me indefinitely because

(54:28):
of her and stuff. And and then, yeah, I just, I
ran away from all my problems and and I just got way too in
too deep with everything. And then just Scott was on
autopilot too, you know, so I wasn't very, I wasn't noticing,
you know, it's like you don't notice.

(54:49):
What is this? Like the crab crab in the
bucket? Yeah, like is the water boils as
long as it's. Frog, frog in the water, you.
Don't know it till you're already boiling, you know, And
that's what it was. And yeah, it was.
I've talked about in therapy before and stuff like that.

(55:09):
So you see, you go to therapy too.
I do, yes. I've been in therapy for two
years now and it was actually like crazy, like, 'cause, you
know, trauma and stuff like that, it could trigger you when
you, if you know, in the beginning when you're working on
it and even through everything, like you can get triggered

(55:29):
sometimes. And I was triggered in the
therapy session and I was just feeling like really overwhelmed
and like anxieties and stuff like that talking through it.
And obviously I didn't feel goodafterward.
But like the next day I felt like a ton of relief.
And it made me feel like maybe if I talk about the things that

(55:52):
I'd gone through, maybe that will help me.
And I think that's why I've always enjoyed music because
like it is a form of therapy. I put it in my songs and I let
it out and it's therapy in the moment.
And it's, and I think just when I went to actual therapy, I
think that really helped me evenmore because I could actually

(56:14):
talk to somebody, like get it out in a way that's not in a
song. Because you can't say.
You can say whatever you want ina song, but it's not like that
sitting with a therapist for an hour and being able to talk.
Yeah, it's more poetic within the story and stuff within,
without always getting into every detail and that of the

(56:35):
trauma to process it. And you're in the third person
too, in the song because it's like, oh, well, that's just
somebody else at that time, not me now.
But when you're talking to the therapist, it's like, now we're
going to confront that right nowand where you were.
Do you notice that your music has changed at all since going
through therapy? Like maybe your expression

(56:58):
within the art now. Or inspiration from Yeah.
Yeah, I've gotten some inspiration from like just being
in therapy sessions and stuff like that.
And I put it in a couple songs just like briefly, but I don't
know. I don't think, if I don't think
it's changed. I don't know.
I don't think it's like noticeably changed my music.

(57:22):
Maybe it has, I don't know. But but I'm, I mean, I'm making
music the same way and stuff like that is just when I make I
I guess it's just in addition to, to music.
I just feel like it's it's like another form of therapy for me
now. Yeah.
Did you ever feel that same kindof like freedom that you said

(57:43):
like after the next day of therapy?
Did you ever feel that same kindof stress relief from like a
song of like, hey, I've written this, I've processed this
experience and now like I was able to speak about it.
Oh, yeah, no, that's, that's, that's literally what it is, is
just, I feel I get vulnerable ina song and then afterward I'm

(58:09):
happy that I got it out. And I'm like, and and you know,
it's crazy is because like musicis one of those things where you
can talk about something shitty and it literally turns it into
something good at the end of it.Yeah, it's, you know what I'm
saying? And like, when you're like in

(58:31):
therapy and you're talking aboutsomething shitty, it just feels
shitty. You don't have something
physical or something like musicor whatever to take back home
with you that has a good representation or, you know what
I'm trying to say, like some music.
It's like you can transform something bad into something

(58:52):
good and actually have the evidence of it and listen to it
and turn it into something positive.
And that's man. There's a song, I can't think of
who it's by. My son would know he it's his
artist. And they wrote a song about a
real experience that happened where a guy was going and they

(59:14):
were doing a drive by shooting and it missed the thing like the
people that are trying to go andkill and hit a kid killed the
kid and the guy's like on the run and that cops are trying to
find him. Cops try and finally come and
find him and they're outside thehotel room or whatever and he's

(59:36):
basically there with the gun praying like, hey, this wasn't
what was supposed to happen. If I kill myself, can I still
get into heaven? It's this really deep, beautiful
song, but it's like it's a metalsong, but it's it's just this
like heart wrenching, like oh fuck, but it's this beautiful,

(59:57):
horrendous like thing has come from that, but it's this music
that has come that like moves you, it moves your soul and it's
like it touches these deeper parts that.
Sometimes they you can't reach without that and music just
reaches in and it's like it grabs you and hold you
differently so. Yeah, yeah, man, it was just

(01:00:18):
like, and that was, that was even like even before all the
addiction and everything else. Like that's why I gravitated.
It gravitated towards music anyway, because I, you know,
there was, there's music people in my family like my mom's dad
was, I guess my grandpa. Why did I, why did I say that?
Like it like that? My grandpa, he, he was a music

(01:00:42):
person too, you know, And when Iwas 11 or 12, I, my parents got
a divorce and I had to move likefrom Washington State.
I'm from Seattle. I had to move from Seattle down
to Texas. Long story short and I lost lost
my dad like we weren't in contact anymore.

(01:01:03):
So that was a traumatic situation for me.
Now I'm in this new place in Texas and I'm getting bullied
and like kids don't like me and stuff like that.
And that was my escape was like was music.
I wanted to get a guitar, so I got a guitar and that's what I
did when I got home every day I just sit in my room and play
guitar. And it got to where it was like

(01:01:25):
I would write my own songs and just play guitar for like two or
three hours every every day. Like, and that's how music kind
of started for me. So music has always been a
therapeutic form thing for me. And, and it's funny because like
you'll, you'll see like certain kids like will come to school
with their guitar and like show it off and, and stuff like that.

(01:01:49):
And I'm like it and it's cool. And I, you should be proud of it
or whatever. But like, I always just looked
at those type of people, like man, like I do music because
it's therapy for me, because it does something for me.
I don't do music because I want it to look cool or I want to,
you know what I'm saying? Like, and I feel like that's

(01:02:10):
sometimes what a lot of people do is that they're like, I play
guitar like it's like it's impressive or something like.
That and it's a badge of honor if like, look what I do.
I don't know. I I do agree with that.
I I do know one guy. Either you could classify him as
mentally ill or just really fucking happy.
But there was a guy I knew in the Navy, his name was Robert

(01:02:31):
Cox. We called him Bobby Socks
because he would always go like this.
He goes, hey, you guys want to see my socks?
And you'd look down and he'd pull his pants up super high.
So give himself and see his nuts.
See some loose knuckles? So I just started calling him
Bobby Socks, right And so. But Bobby used to carry this
shitty guitar and around and that's what I thought about him.

(01:02:53):
But this guy randomly, we'd be just walking down the road.
We just got off the ship. I'm like, do we do not need to
stand out like a sword thumb? We are in rando country, right?
Or we're in Hawaii and you got this kid from Texas, Robert Cox,
and he's got this guitar slung over his back and I'm thinking
this guy's a fucking idiot. Like this is not going to bring

(01:03:15):
girls. And all of a sudden he would
just spin it around randomly andthen just start belting out some
tune. Well, and then he would just go
into some song and he was just talking about how he would write
a song while we're walking abouthow good he felt about that
time. And so like, he's the only guy

(01:03:36):
totally get it because I know those dip shits in high school
to be like, all right, let me bust out some ballots.
Anybody want to hear some white snake?
This is my era. But anyway, you know what I
mean? Like those guys just dip shits
trying to get some, you know, trying to get laid.
But you like that was your friend.
Yeah, yeah, it was. That was my only friend.

(01:03:59):
Yeah, that was like, I mean, I had friends, but it was.
No, but I mean you, you spent a lot of time.
It was like. Your truest friend who knows you
on all your deepest levels. Yeah, well, it's so like, it's
such a, what's the word, unconditional love?
Because you're like the guitar is just there for you and you

(01:04:20):
just play it and it doesn't yellat you, It doesn't do anything
back to you, you know what I'm saying?
If anything, it just tells you like, hey, you could play that a
little, that part a little bit better.
Like you just need to practice, you know what I'm saying?
But that's not. Such a healthy way versus, you
know. A natural way.

(01:04:40):
It's the noise you produce, yeah.
Do that line from George Harrison's song where my guitar
gently weeps. You know, that's yeah, that's,
that's what just came into my mind, right?
Because that's exactly what it is.
Like you talk about that like a song is, is like your expression
of forgiveness of that time because, you know, you talked

(01:05:02):
about it. There's a resolution.
There's not always a resolution.You know, there might not be
that resolution, but you've decided like, I mean, I I'm sure
there's songs like this, but youknow, it it, it would just sound
like a really horrible song. Like it starts out as a bad song
and then by the end of the song,Nope, everybody dies.
But you know, and I went to prison.

(01:05:23):
You're like, what the fuck? I don't want to hear this song.
Like this is horrible. Maybe some sadist out there
going. Do you have anything that's like
really self hatred? Like a lot of it, but when you
and before we go too far on thatone for our audience, 'cause I
want them like going up, lookingyou up right now like.

(01:05:44):
We'll have his links below. What is the genre that you would
say your music is in? I'd say it's hip hop, yeah.
I would say it's, I would say it's hip hop for sure.
It was, it was a lot more hip hop when I first started.
And now it's kind of morphed into, you know, more singing.

(01:06:07):
I mean, I've always, I've alwaysintroduced singing into my hip
hop stuff because like when I first started making music when
I was 11, it was singing. It was like John Mayer.
Like I was a huge John Mayer fan.
Like I'm yeah, I'm the biggest John Mayer fan in the world.
Anybody else? Thinks differently.
Oh, he's great. I have two of his albums on

(01:06:28):
vinyl. I saw him in concert.
I saw him when he was. I saw him in concert.
Yeah, my buddies worked for Vivint and they got the end of
the summer Vivint concert that they put on was John Mayer.
They flew him out just for Vivint plays.
And I got an amazing seat just with my friends.
I actually was on mushrooms for that concert.
Oh, I. Remember you telling me all?

(01:06:48):
That. So for the first bit when it was
the opener, it was a bit intense.
So I went up high and just sat on my own and then when John put
Mayer came on, I moved back downin and like it was.
He saw his colors. He has such a beautiful concert,
I love that. I have a fangirl the fuck out
of. A.
Dude, he was a thumb dude. His solos and stuff, the way he

(01:07:10):
just moves up and down the guitar, I was so amazed.
I would look like I would look like a nine year old girl and a
judge. Oh my God, I'm not.
I don't like dudes, but I would lick his butt.
I'm like. I was throwing his panties on
stage. Dude, I was like crying about

(01:07:30):
John Mayer breakup songs before I even knew what breakup was.
You know what I'm? Saying Oh yeah, it.
Felt so real to me. I'm like, I feel you, man.
And I'm like, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
That's why I so. It was like I.
So that was your intro, that wasyour what your vibe was when he
got into music. When I got into guitar, like I
was like that, that's what it was and.

(01:07:51):
Like do you play a lot of the guitar in your hip hop?
I do yeah, I do a lot of like yeah, usually my process is I'll
I'll usually like do piano or door just make.
I have AI have a keyboard in here and and obviously I have

(01:08:13):
like different sounds and stuff.So I have all these different
sounds to choose from and then Ibasically play the piano to
them. Yeah, so create different
sounds. So that's usually like my
process and with drums, yeah. And and then I'll do, I'll do
the drums and do a sound or whatever.
I'll just go through sounds and just play stuff until something

(01:08:35):
feels right and then that's whatI'll do.
And then guitar usually comes inlike afterward, like I'll do
like background guitars or. OK.
Yeah. And.
I've had songs before where I'vedone like actual like whole like
guitar solos. Oh.
That's. Cool.
And that's something I noticed about hip hop is like there's

(01:08:55):
not a lot of like instrumental solo.
Well, there's not, there's not ayeah, there's not a guitar solo
because it's hip hop, you know. But I'm like, I don't give a
shit. I'm going to, this sounds good.
I'm going to do that, you know. No, it's like soul.
It's like funk, right? Because they have guitars in
there. And so, yeah, I could almost see

(01:09:16):
it. Like, you know, hip hop's that
evolution of soul. Like everybody just thinks like
hip hop's got to be like fuckingR Kelly, right?
It's not right. It's it's such a why it's same
with like metal. Like I'm a huge metal fan, but
there's different variations of metal.
Yeah. And then, you know, there's,
there's times for I mean, I lookat metal like I look at strains

(01:09:39):
of weed. I'm like, how do I feel right
now? What do I want to do?
What do I want to accomplish right now?
Like, oh. This guy's sorry.
No, go ahead, listen. To when I listen to metal, it's
like I'm angry. Yeah.
No, it's like my gym workout shit or like I'm angry as fuck.
Like I need to rage. That's what it sounds like, but

(01:10:00):
it's like funny, like lamb. Lamb of God is like one of my is
one of my favorite bands of all time.
And the song Descending is aboutthis going into addiction to
alcohol, right? And it's got like, and it is so
powerful and a lot of the metal that I listen to, it's like like

(01:10:23):
I'm a huge fan of As I Lay dyingtoo.
And that's all about regret. Like if you know anything about
that band, like the lead singer tried to kill his wife.
He hired, tried to hire a hitmanto kill her because he was.
Yeah, well, because he told somebody he was like, yeah, I'm
trying to look for somebody to kill my wife.
Now, mind you, I didn't even know this, but he was like the

(01:10:46):
number one metal Christian band.What?
And they were like, top of the charts.
Wow. They've been around for a really
long time. So there was a sting operation
and this cop went over there playing like he was a hit man.
And he's like, yeah, it's going to cost us much.
He's like, cool. Like, it's got to be an
accident, all that. So he went to prison and the

(01:11:08):
band just shut down. He gets out of prison.
They start back up. He rounds them up.
They don't want to get back together.
They were like, dude, what you did was unforgivable.
And then he started making theseclaims.
He's like, I never believed in God or anything like that.
And the guys are like, dude, that's not true.

(01:11:28):
We've talked to you like we've been in all of these guys were
like, you know, they're christened in their own way.
And they were just like, and then he was throwing them
underneath the bus and they're like, what the fuck?
So a lot of them left. He rebuilt the band and then
they came out with two albums. But the second album came out

(01:11:48):
and the bandmates, like literally the day it came out,
they broke up. They're like, you know what?
We just can't, we cannot look past who you what you've done.
And because he kept continuing, like beating his girlfriend or
something like that. So his band is destroyed and
then all of a sudden you're seeing tour dates for them.
And I'm like, how the fuck they're broke up?

(01:12:08):
No, he assembled another band. This is his. 3rd Go completely
Avengers. Avengers Assemble.
Yeah, but it's. Great, Let's come back.
To this and getting worse. Yeah, and worse than before.
It's just Lego guys coming out and then it's just the Canada
people from South Park. Hey, buddy.
Let's do this, buddy. South Park Avengers.

(01:12:31):
Yeah, let's get a buddy. Fucking buddy.
But yeah, man, like, oh, I don'teven know where I was going on.
That one. Me either, I got my first
perfect circle vinyl. Nice.
It has no, we were talking aboutmetal and John Mayer and stuff
like that. That's that's cool.
I never got into John Mayer. I, I don't know, I mean now,
probably because I'm older. That's OK.

(01:12:53):
I might check it out, but yeah. Chill vibes definitely.
Yeah, I'm just an I I would agree with you though, Kyle.
Yeah, I was a very angry person,but metal, Metal was my
confidence when I was a kid. Yeah.
Wow, It it brought like I did dumb shit when I was a little
kid. Like I had these, like I had AI

(01:13:15):
had the whole Canadian tuxedo asdenim head to toe.
OK, what the Hell's a Canadian tuxedo?
And you know, just denim. And then I'm just fucking with
you. Canadians take a joke.
I was like, that sounds like a Texas no.
No, no, no. It's, it's a Canadian tuxedo.
And we would write the names of the bands that look just like

(01:13:37):
the logos of the bands. And when I was when I was a kid,
later on, I was like, that's thedumbest thing.
But as a band, as somebody who creates music, that's like
almost the ultimate of what you would want your fans to do to be
like, I love this music. It impacts me so much.
I'm going to fucking. I had like ACDC.
Oh yeah. Black Sabbath and you know.

(01:13:59):
Finn loves doing the art covers and album covers for it.
Like he paints him on stuff justyeah, because that's what he
likes. Yeah, because the music hits you
so you know, that's that's why like, I mean, so how much music
have you produced at this time and and where are you going with
the music? I it's, it's transformed from,

(01:14:22):
you know, back because back whenI was on SoundCloud, which I've
deleted a lot of stuff off of there because it was rough in
the beginning, but. I mean, do you watch the
beginning of this show? Some rough ones.
We got to start somewhere. Right.

(01:14:42):
Yeah, you do have to, you do have to start somewhere.
And yeah, so 2014, I was on SoundCloud.
I met this buddy of mine. He's actually my best friend
still to this day. And anyway, so he was rapping
and I was, I was getting weed from him.
So that's how I knew him. And it was like through some

(01:15:02):
other friend that I had. And so so I met him, he was
rapping and I remember they would just like freestyle in his
room and like in the living room.
And I just thought it was so cool.
And I'm like, it's music. So obviously I'm going to get
intrigued by it. But I didn't like or listen to
hip hop really that much before then.

(01:15:23):
And I saw that and I saw that talent and I was just like, this
is super cool. And so it became like it changed
from like, hey, do you have someweed to like, hey, you want to
wrap? And so.
And then it was obviously both, you know, so then we would do
both and that's how it started. And it was like around that time

(01:15:46):
I was 20, what was I 2021, I think maybe 20 or 21.
And so I was a typical 21 year old kid.
I was still really immature. Stuff like that.
And so we would talk about like certain things that I don't talk
about it anymore, you know, likea lot of hip hop in my opinion,

(01:16:09):
right? And I and I have songs about
this stuff, but not very many. And but I feel like a lot of hip
hop is very like disrespectful towards women.
I feel like it really, really, she just talks about drugs a

(01:16:31):
ton, you know, and just doesn't have a very good message about
it, you know? No, it's a great beat, but the
content is like. No, I'm all all of the rap that
I grew up with. I mean, unless you counted like
that weird rapper from Canada named Snow, you don't know if
you know that. Shout out to In Farmer if you

(01:16:54):
guys. Farmer.
Informer yeah, nothing like a white guy from Canada singing
with the Jamaican accent. Anyways, that happens in the
90s. We accepted everything at that
time. Anything.
They're like, let's put spaghetti down, but we're going
to put mango salsa and then we're going to grate some white
chocolate on it. Like what the fuck is this?

(01:17:16):
That's what that. Was dinner and it's ready.
Yeah, we that's the 90s. That's the 90s that.
Yeah, yeah. So it was like, so I kind of
came in and infused the whole rap thing with like my
vulnerability and my therapy aspect behind it, because that's
what I got in the music in the beginning for.

(01:17:37):
And so when I come in and start rapping and making songs, it's
about my life, it's about breakups, it's about it's
influenced by just. It's so weird.
I I, I can't remember who I was watching the interview one time.
I can't remember who said it, but they were like, it's almost
like I'm not even, I'm not even present.

(01:18:00):
I don't know if it's no, not present, but like it's almost
like it just comes to me. It just randomly and it's like
I'm a vessel for some other thing.
I don't know. I don't.
Know like the song just appears to you?
Yes, like I'll make whole songs about, like I've made whole
songs about like breakups when I'm like, it's not even about my

(01:18:21):
life. It's just like it's things that
I hear from friends or experiences or it just, it comes
to me. It's like, it's like an author
writing a fiction book. Like it's, I don't know, it just
comes out of the middle of no one.
It's just there and I just pull it from the ears.
From the ether. Yes.
And I just, and I'm just. What strain do you use for that

(01:18:43):
because I'm very curious how I access this ether.
Yeah, right. Exactly.
DMT, that's what it. Is yeah, you gotta lick these
frogs. And so like a lot of my music
has been like just random thoughts and random ideas and
things, but also has some, has obviously some real life stuff

(01:19:04):
to it too. But that's kind of what it is.
It's like a biography, but also like has some fiction aspects to
it. And yeah, I and so now it's like
evolved to, I've backed off likedisrespectfulness a little bit
and like I've, I've actually stopped cussing so much in my

(01:19:27):
music. I feel like there could be more
intelligent things to be said instead of just putting the word
fuck in there, you know what I'msaying or shit or damn or
whatever. Like you could put something
else meaningful in there and like.
It was a deeper meaning to your song.
Yeah, I feel like it was a filler word for a long time.

(01:19:47):
Just like when rappers are like,yeah, yeah, it's like instead of
putting the yeah there, like maybe you still want to put an
ad Lib there, but like, maybe it's not, yeah, maybe it's
something else or whatever, right?
That definitely gets abused. What's that one that they can't
remember? My kid, my youngest, loves his

(01:20:09):
songs and the I think the guy died of an overdose.
Oh no, Juice World. Thank you.
Yeah, they the the YouTube Kids algorithm.
Did they? They let a lot of his stuff get
in there. He's just talking about getting
high on fucking cough syrup and just down in pills and, you

(01:20:34):
know, threatening to shoot people and all sorts of shit.
Like exactly what you're saying.Like, you know, it's like poetry
in a way. Like the way that it you mean
you're trying to tell a story ina modern context, but you're
trying to reach an audience thatthat feels it.
Now, if you said fuck in your song, it's got to be expressive,

(01:20:55):
right? It's, it's a moment of like, you
know. Expression in the moment to
enhance that specific moment. Yeah, not a filler continuously.
But it is it's it's an I mean, the word fuck whether it's in a
word going, I understand what you're feeling to that's
appalling. Either way, you're you're
successful in what you're tryingto do, right?

(01:21:16):
But. Stirring.
Yeah, you're trying to stir the emotion, but like, to what
Kyle's saying, to your credit, it's you can't just like you
can't be just randomly talking. Baby, I love you so much.
Fuck yeah. And you know, I just think so
much about you. Yeah, Baby, you look so fucking
fine. You know, just, like, weird.
It's just like, why are you throwing in this?

(01:21:38):
This exactly what you said, the filler, like you'd almost
appreciate. Yeah, like, OK.
Well, at least he's not saying this.
Yeah, there's a moment. There's a time to do it and time
not to, I feel like. And I was just like over using
it a lot of the time where it's like I could have just instead
of saying it 8 times in the song, I could have said it twice

(01:21:59):
on the moments where I actually needed to say it versus just
saying it all the time and then it being you know, just a filler
word so. All artists evolve.
I mean, I think that's good. It's like what Brandon said,
like you think it's rough your early stuff, go back and check
out our early stuff, you know, but but you, we're our harshest.
We're our own harshest critic. But it's good to be able to see

(01:22:21):
the artists in the way of going well.
You know, I like to see the beginnings of what they were
creating because sometimes they just completely shift, right?
Like one person could have been here in the first part and
you're like, I would fan girl out about John Mayer and then go
on, oh, this guy probably plays guitar.

(01:22:41):
He probably sounds like John Mayer.
What are you seeing, Sir? I get hip hop.
Yeah, you for real Threw me through a loop right there.
That's. True, man.
Yeah, that's true. Now it's That's funny.
Man, well that's why I thought it was funny you said your
introduction to hip hop. It's like 2014, 2015, like damn
I was. Super late.

(01:23:03):
Like I was 5th 6th grade, got myfirst stereo for my room, found
like 92.3 started listening to rap that became my favorite
genre since like fifth grade. Wow.
Yeah, that was all I listened tofor the longest time.
And then I introduced to like Godsmack and other metal, like

(01:23:25):
other rock stuff in that point. That was ninth grade.
That was 9th grade before I started listening to anything
but rap. That's crazy.
Wow, yeah, no, I mean, obviouslyI would listen to rap like
before and stuff like that. But like when I really got into
it, it was, it was, yeah, it waswhen I was like 2122.
That's wild to me. That's so crazy.

(01:23:45):
To a lot of East Coast rap like I was really into like Wu Tang
Clan and black sheep and I got Iliked East Coast like KSR, you
know I. Think 90s had some really dope
rap though. Well, yeah, And I, I didn't like
the West Coast side because the West Coast side was all about
like, degrading women and, and all about violence.

(01:24:07):
I mean, I loved Ice Cube. But then when you go back and
you listen to the song, you know, today was a good day.
I mean, that's a pretty fucking psychotic song.
I mean, guy walking around going, yeah, I didn't have to
shoot anybody and I got to fuck this chick Kim.
And, you know, cops did pull me over, You know, it's all right.

(01:24:28):
And I'm like, where's this guy live in, like Baghdad or some
shit like that? Like this sounds like a horrible
place and that yet people in thesuburbs were like this is so
good but. I always liked the beat.
Yeah, the beat. It's so, it's so interesting
with music, right? Because like, depending on what

(01:24:49):
you're used to, what you're not used to in your life or
whatever, you might listen to a song and be like, man, this
sounds, this is fucked up or whatever.
But to him, to Ice Cube, let's say right to Ice Cube, yeah,
that was his fucking life though.
He lived through all that shit. Exactly.
You know, and so like that was his form of therapy, living in

(01:25:10):
the to the ghetto or whatever. And it's just like, damn, today
was a good day. Cuz like, I didn't have to use
my gun. I didn't have like gunshots all
the time. You know, it's so like also
people in the suburbs and peoplelike they were going through
that same lifestyle and whateverthey're like, they're banging
that shit because they're, it's a fluent therapy for them, you

(01:25:31):
know. And so when I say like, oh, you
know, a lot of hip hop is about drugs and murder, music and this
and that, I think there is a difference between saying
something because it's therapy for you.
Oh, for sure. Versus the other way around
where it's like you're actually glorifying it and saying I am

(01:25:53):
going to go kill somebody, whatever.
Like there's. I think there's a difference
there. Well, exactly.
Especially like with N.W.A, likethat whole story, I mean, like
Eazy E was completely different.Dre, he wasn't thuggish at all.
He was just the guy that could mix and he he'd make great beats

(01:26:13):
and he could make music. And Ice Cube was, he was like
the most gangster out of all of them.
Yeah. And so I mean, but even then,
like all of them kind of community, you can tell like
Eazy E, like he degraded women constantly.
You know, it's like some of the the rap that I listened to when
I was growing up, like it was the worst one.

(01:26:34):
You get a two life crew and two life crew was straight up just
the most ridiculous, disgusting songs ever.
And as a kid I thought they werehilarious, right?
I mean, but that's like a siren call.
Like you don't realize like you're saying like that it's
important to be able to create something because we talked

(01:26:55):
about juice world. That's not a role model.
Yeah, I understand you're going through some shit, but yeah,
when your primary audience is kids playing on Fortnite, like
there's an issue. Yeah, no, for sure, man.
It's like, and I and I and I feel like it.
It's like, like whether you signed up to be a role model or

(01:27:21):
not, you indirectly did, though.You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, because now you're on the Internet, now you have tons of
followers and like, if you decide to put in a song, I'm
going to pop some pills tonight and I'm going to do some lean
and like, that's fly as hell. Now you got kids that are
wanting to do that shit, you know what I'm saying?

(01:27:43):
And then you got these overdoseshappening and all kinds of
stuff. And I mean, even with like
Eminem, like that's why Eminem was getting so much Flack
whenever he was making music, was like, he's putting all this
fucked up stuff in there. But like, then again, to
Eminem's point, it's like, why aren't you paying attention to
your kid then? Why are you letting him listen
to all this stuff? I'm not making music for kids.
I'm making music that I want to make.

(01:28:04):
I'm an adult like. For real?
Yeah, Yeah. You know, so it's but it's a
fine. It's it's but.
He calls all that shit out too though.
Eminem is very straightforward with a lot of that in his music
and he shits all over it. Shits on the system, shits on
the parent, shits on everything.Well, and even on himself from
the earlier things, you know, I mean, it's and he's that's why I

(01:28:24):
mean he still remains relevant, you know, especially in the rap
world because how many people have come and gone.
I have two albums on Eminem. Exactly.
Yeah, No, it's terrible, man. Like the amount of people we've
lost from drugs in general, likejust in the world obviously is a
time. But then you have all these

(01:28:45):
celebrities and stuff that you fall in love with and they
sadly, they, you know, overdose and it's like, and they they put
it in their music and everythingbecause they're struggling and
they're going through it. You know, I juice world he was
he was really in deep and he wasstruggling for a long time.
And and then you know, that thathappened.
And but yeah, he had kids that were looking up to him and stuff

(01:29:10):
like that. And he tried to say it in his
interviews and stuff like, you know, I'm like, this is an issue
type thing. Like you could tell he was
struggling. It's the same thing with Mac
Miller. You know Amy Winehouse?
Yeah, all of. Them yeah all all these people
and so but I just I don't know II think it's tough because like
music obviously gets digested bymore people than you expected or

(01:29:33):
were intending for like Ice Cubewriting his songs in the hood
you know what I'm saying like heprobably didn't expect he
probably didn't think about the fact that like.
No, no, no, I'm just saying likeat that time, like I'm, I'm
trying to understand the pull from it and from white suburbia,

(01:29:54):
right? Because I mean, I grew up here
in Utah during those times when this was being released and we
didn't have hard times on that, right?
There was 4 black kids that probably lived in the entire
state. Yep, right.
Wow, There's one of them I mean,I grew up with.
And I mean, he wasn't thuggish at all.
They were straight up from Africa.
Yeah. And then like the ones I knew,

(01:30:15):
they none of them are thugs. But then all of a sudden we got
to junior high and all of a sudden he's talking to like he's
all thuggish. I'm like, wait, wait, wait.
Yeah, like I got this scar from being shot.
No, you got that when we were riding bikes, dude, Remember we
fell down by the train tracks. Dude, shut up, man.
Come on. I'm trying to get this persona.
And that's the issue that I because in Utah, and I'm only

(01:30:40):
saying it because, I mean, it wasn't very prevalent.
You, if you were black at the time in Utah, immediately the
assumption was either you're a rapper or you play ball.
Yeah. And it was like either one was
they immediately got judgement on them from people who are

(01:31:00):
like, they always associate, youknow, gangster rap at the time.
They're they're like, oh, you're.
That's all it was, was rap. No judgement.
Like they just like that's I immediately think that one or if
they don't do that, Oh well, youmust be playing ball.
Like that's it. Like he's not an aerospace
engineer or something like that.So that's that's the way that

(01:31:22):
people will treat it. And so like, that's why I'm
like, you know, the assumption is it's like you get this white
suburbia, kids love it and then they start idolizing it, not
realizing it because it's misinterpreted to them.
They're like, exactly what you said.
He's like, I wrote, this was probably by far the most
stressful time of my life. And this is how I felt every

(01:31:43):
day. And, you know, there were some
good times, there were some bad times, but it was this was my,
this is just one day in my life.And that's cool.
But the kids didn't take it likethat.
They're like, all right, cool. So you're telling me I got to
get a fat chick named Kim? I gotta get an AK, I gotta get

(01:32:03):
some cocaine? Yeah, I gotta shoot people.
I mean, shit happens. Yeah, dude, yeah.
And they do stupid shit. Well, it's like nowadays the.
That's why Chris Rock said he's like, I'm more scared of white
kids than black kids. He's like, yeah.
Nowadays, how many kids, it's like The thing is just go kill
yourself. Like how often have you heard

(01:32:24):
that at schools or other things where the kids are like go kill
yourself? That's just the response to kids
that they're just like, yeah, I know they're just being dumb.
Go kill yourself. And it's like, why the fuck is
that our response now? Why is that what's been
normalized in our societies thatkids are going to other kids
going go kill yourself. Why?

(01:32:44):
Because you didn't like their outfit?
Because you didn't like like it's just this stupid.
It's like blaming it on a hangout and stuff like you know.
No, it's just because it's, we've become a little bit more
LAX with that. Yeah, we have.
Yeah. We've.
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's just, I don't know,
it's wild how the world works and just the evolution of, I

(01:33:07):
don't know, just the music we listen to, what we say, how we
say it to each other, things like that.
It's like, even with music, it'slike music is so influential.
Music is probably the most influential thing in the world.
Oh, 100%. Be honest with you.
So it's like when you have kids that grow up with these
different artists, artists mightnot be intending to talk

(01:33:29):
literally to a 12 year old, you know what I'm saying?
And your parents might not be paying attention to what you're
listening to, but it's influential.
It's influential 100%. So I just think, I just think
artists, artists could be a little bit more just responsible
with their platform. I'm not saying that they can't

(01:33:50):
make the music they want to make, but like when you have,
when you have rappers, right? They go on Instagram and have
thousands of kids, thousands of people on their live and they're
like, let's pour this up and let's do this and let's do that.
It's a it's a show and it's a gimmick.
You know what I'm saying? It's like, it's almost like a

(01:34:12):
brand. Like you're making it a brand
and you're making it, you're doing it on purpose and you're
doing it to show your followers and you're not thinking about
what that could do. And if you are thinking about
it, you're wrong. And if you're not thinking about
it, you're still wrong because you're not that that's not, I

(01:34:34):
don't think that's cool to me. You know what I'm saying?
Like when you see rappers makingmerch with like lean bottles on
their shirt and stuff like that,like you're really trying to,
you're really trying to sell this to people.
You know what I'm saying? That that's not just you being
like, Oh well, I'll just, that'sthe music I make and like, I'm
just like getting out. Becoming their brand like you.
Said like, that's what I have anissue with.

(01:34:55):
You know what I'm saying? It's like, I think kids need to
be. I think parents need to
obviously pay attention to theirkids, especially with technology
these days. Like fuck.
Only talking to them about art because that's what music is, is
art. It does connect and stuff with
different people in different ways.
But just because it's art, like you said, yeah, a lot of it is
the struggle, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's their

(01:35:16):
everyday life. It's their struggle.
It's their brand that's being pushed forward.
But a lot of us aren't discussing that with our kids.
Not going, hey, yeah, you might see this or you might see this
celebrity or this person doing this.
But really day-to-day. But this is a photo shoot.
This is a brand opportunity. This is this because this is
them getting up there. It's like seeing a Coca-Cola ad.

(01:35:39):
It's them trying to get your advertising, your money.
This isn't the real person day-to-day.
This isn't who they are. And as a layer, it's some stupid
bullshit from a business that's going, hey, you need to buy
this, you need to do this, you need to be like this.
Well, and it's, it's kind of to say with all artists, you know,
there are certain artists, big name artists to this day, you

(01:36:00):
know, especially from the femaleworld, they don't write their
own music. They have somebody else write
their music for them. But because they can deliver it
in a way that is emotionally drawing, right?
And that's where I see certain, you know, like, you know, I know
that a lot of people who listen to our podcasts crazy details

(01:36:21):
listens to Taylor Swift and we're just like no way, because
we're not like massive fans by any means.
But you know, The thing is, is that if that's to say the same
thing, like she's known for likethis girl, rah rah, you don't
need no man, you a strong woman type of music, right?
And there's no way she could be walking around feeling like

(01:36:42):
this. I guarantee she writes music and
then they'll be like showing some woman at some like music
thing. They're like, Oh, you might know
these songs from her and and she's this woman's like I saw
this video and this older woman,she's singing these songs and
I'm like, that woman didn't singthat song.
She goes no, she wrote them all.And so it's it.
Well, it's a lot of them have ghost writers or like other

(01:37:04):
writers for songs that bring it in.
It's. Well, because there's a certain
thing, because now it becomes a part.
The music has now transcended past.
It's what you're making and now there's an expectation.
And I think that's where fans may have.
I was thinking about that with Lily because, you know, she's

(01:37:24):
been doing, she's got a whole different type of genre music
and she has her own style of fans.
And I was just thinking about that.
Like there's this big transitionwhere now it's like what you
said, there's a responsibility on you and but you still need to
honor your your life. So it's like, how am I going to
say this in a way that I can share my experience it without

(01:37:47):
making it sound like I'm I'm degrading somebody or doing
something evil, like if this wasa bad time in my life.
I think you can. I think it's the glorification,
like you'd said, you know, they're glorifying it going oh,
look at this and that versus like an experience.
This is what's happened this because there's so many songs
that are the experience. You are drawn through this story

(01:38:10):
of like and you're like shit like that connected.
I I'm bawling like this song connected with me on a whole
different level that I just never expected versus this one.
And the other ones are all just like, oh, I'm selling this
experience, I'm doing this and this is my life.
Like I'm doing all these drugs and this versus like, yeah, this
one time I did this and I went down this rabbit hole and had

(01:38:32):
this really horrible fucked up experience and like, this is
where it came out of. That's a whole different journey
than like, yeah, it's not I'm going to go fuck Karen and like
do ketamine and go do this. And then we're going to go like
cruise down the, it's like all this stuff and you're like, why
is that your focus? Is that really your everyday
life? Is that what you're trying to
convey to people? Is this is it or is it this is

(01:38:55):
what's pushed because this is catchy and poppy and what's
going to sell on the market? Because I noticed it's like, I
loved Glass Animals for the longest time.
I love their older stuff. Their newer stuff has become
poppy radio shit. And it's really lost the same
vibe that it used to have. And I look at it and I think how
many people wants to become big Stop writing their own.

(01:39:18):
It doesn't connect with the soul, with their stuff.
It's someone else's writing. Like the Miley Cyrus came in
like a Wrecking Ball. Song wasn't her writing, it was
someone else's. And the original writing is
instead of I came in like a Wrecking Ball, it's you came in
because it's about an abusive relationship and how this guy
comes in and keeps destroying this woman over and over and

(01:39:39):
over again. So they kind of tried to change
it to make it a little bit more empowering through Miley Cyrus's
twist. But how many, how many artists
are doing that where they're notwriting the art, It's not their
creation? I, I would almost imagine that
it's because it no longer becamea part of them.
And that's when I'm talking about that transcendence where

(01:39:59):
now it becomes like an expectation.
And then now it's almost like the artist is trapped where
they're just like, well, fuck, Iwant to make the music I like.
Like if I want to change like a group like Imagine Dragons, like
every album that comes out, it'scompletely different from the
next one. Right, different sounds and all
that stuff. And that's that's ballsy, you

(01:40:19):
know, you know, for me in the metal world, like Lamb of God, I
love Lamb of God. They introduced some song that's
a little different or softer andI'm like, what the fuck are you
guys doing? Like I am here to rock out with
my cock out. And you guys are like playing a
ballad. Get the fuck out of here with
this shit, right. But that's the thing like, and

(01:40:40):
then I have to think I'm like, well, you know what?
That's where they are at. That's what they're.
I mean, they, there's a really heavy song in there that they
sing. And you would think it was like
the most hateful song. It's a song about one of the
guitarist's daughter was a stillborn, huh?
And he wrote these lyrics and then he's like, I can't have

(01:41:01):
Randy sing this song. And so they got Chino from
Deftones to come in and he sang this melodic part of the song.
But that's the thing, like, I appreciate that like for
everybody loves the genres that they're really into because
that's the place where they can have the best release.
That's the best connection. That's what metals done for me.

(01:41:23):
Like, yeah, I go, yeah, I was soangry for much of my life, and
it still comes out every once ina while.
But truly, it's evolution. Like I'm really into soul music
now. I can take that.
I love soul music and, you know,the 60s.
Yeah, stuff, yeah. And then?
And then I every once in a whileI like listening to AI music,

(01:41:43):
taking rap music like from $0.50, which when I listen to
the songs, the real songs, I waslike I.
Prefer the AI song all the real songs because that's what I used
to listen to. It was garbage, dude.
I'm like what is this? I'm like this is nothing like.
The AI soul version you just got.

(01:42:04):
Like 2121 reasons, 21 questions,21 questions.
Yeah, that song in the AI soul, it sounds like a love song.
Like you're just like, Oh my gosh.
And then you like. Magic Stick as a love song.
I know right, But I'd be. But you hear it in the AI

(01:42:25):
version and you're like, oh man,this guy just loves this girl.
He's like I'm name off all thesereasons, but then you really.
I love you girl. Yeah, it's nothing.
I'm like, is he having a seizure?
Is this guy just took too much Benadryl?
Like what's going on with this guy?
It was weird. And I was like, you know, it's
exactly what you say. Like when you're putting more

(01:42:46):
heart and soul into it instead of just filler.
Like it just, it just depends onthe context.
So it's the delivery. It's got to be the delivery.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's music is yeah, I don't know.
It's, it's interesting, man. It's like it's, it's our, but it
all could it also could be used in a negative way depending on

(01:43:07):
who's listening to it or absolutely.
But. And so I don't know.
I, I, I think, yeah, I just think people could be a little
bit more responsible, that's all.
And to and to some of those to and credit like to to the credit
of those people too. Like some of these people I'm
talking about, it's like I, I think like they're, they're, I

(01:43:29):
don't know if they're consciously thinking about it or
not. And they might not be.
And that that might be who they are.
Like that's that. So you might be seeing the real
person, you know, but it in it. But it's just like that just
kind of thing bothered me whenever I saw it, like go from
like just being in a song. Yeah.
And that was their experience versus now you're like selling
it and you're like it's. As a lifestyle.

(01:43:51):
Tactic and I know, and I know some of these people too are
like they're doing it because they know they get more views.
So like what's sad about it is you're using the innocence of
these people that are following your music and you're poisoning
their innocence so that you can get more money from your music.

(01:44:12):
And that's what's fucked up. You know, for another dollar
you're doing that for any following.
You're using it as a marketing tactic.
That's why like a lot of people,they, they act a certain way.
Like you see Jake Paul, like acting the way he's acting, it's
because he's doing it because hegets more followers that way,
you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah.
And like, there is an aspect to him where it's where it's like

(01:44:34):
he, he obviously does have a passion about sports or boxing
or whatever. I wouldn't imagine that he
doesn't have any of it, you knowwhat I'm saying?
But like, your delivery and how you're doing and go about it
just doesn't seem very authenticto me, you know, And that's the
issue I have with sometimes thatkind of stuff.
It's like with Jake Paul, at least it's like you're not

(01:44:56):
telling your kids to like do a lean tonight and have a
overdose. No, I I mean my.
Friend but. I get that.
It's it's so weird because they have too many personas, right?
They can't just be themselves. Like Jake Paul, like my son
loves WWE, like for he loves it.He knows everything about all of

(01:45:18):
them. But you know, when Jake Paul
comes on there and I'm like, this guy's not to be trusted.
Like the only thing I'm seeing of him is all of his business
dealings. Like I don't care, like his
antics and stuff and his stupid videos.
I could care less boxing. We all know what's fake, we all
know what's staged, and they allfound out.
When the guy's like, I don't need that money, I'm going to

(01:45:40):
fuck you up, I'm going to fuck you up.
Yeah. And and he did like, I mean, he,
he, he ended his possibilities. Oh, he was for Logan Paul to
come back, ever fight again. BB, we give you a round of
applause. He tossed him around.
You know what I'm saying? Oh my gosh.
You know, to be honest with you,I kind of respected it because I

(01:46:03):
was like, look, like he lost. Like, I think a lot of people,
like, were waiting for him to lose, you know what I'm saying?
I think a lot of people were waiting for him to be like, hey,
man, stop fighting Mike Tyson inthe 60s and stop fighting people
that are way fucking retired andshit like that.
Yeah, but just to make yourself look good.
But then on the other side of ittoo, it's like you're also

(01:46:26):
helping semi retired people. Are retired people still get a
bag to help their families? Or dude, right?
That's cool. You know what I'm saying?
Like, there's things I respect, there's things I respect about
Jake Paul, but other things I'm just like, I didn't really like
that, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, he did one.
Bag. Well, the the thing that really
disturbed me about him was Crypto Zoo.

(01:46:49):
So a lot of people don't know about that, but he he had
created a coin called Crypto Zoowould be like Pokémon because he
loves Pokémon. Hump and dump schemes.
Big time. There's a lot of famous people
that get in those. And his his drink, that's no
more, it's gone. And the money that was lost on
it, like he and he's not paying certain things.

(01:47:13):
Like that's the thing like when you make all these promises
based off of an image and that image cracks.
Like, that's why I think artistslike you, like you just got to
be like, yeah, that's who I was at that time.
And this is who I am now. This is the evolution of me.
You know, that that's just what it is.
And I have the gift to be able to put this into lyrics and to

(01:47:37):
put beats to because this this is a part of me and I'm sharing
it in the most art. Just like paintings.
Like every time we record his podcast, I'm surrounded by
paintings and I'm always lookingat all these like random
paintings of this cow and the guy in The Cave with the sword
and the bloody hand. And, you know, if for me, if
just like I look at like music, exactly like these pieces of

(01:48:01):
art. There was a long process that
went into this. There was a lot of thought that
went into this. Regardless if it came out
overnight or if it took a year or if it took 10 years, it
doesn't matter. Like it's like you said, like I
relate to you on the words. Like, you know, for me, it's,
it's in a different sense. And in like behavioral science

(01:48:21):
or, or in communication, like I start putting things together.
I'm like, oh, that's why they got upset.
And I replayed in my head and itjust makes sense.
And somebody will ask me at work, like, how do I say like
this? I'm like, say like this.
And they go, yeah. And they go back and they go,
dude, that totally worked. It's the same thing.
Like when you're seeing that, I imagined the exact same thing.
It just like somebody goes, how the hell do you do that?

(01:48:42):
And you're like, it's not me. It just comes through me.
And I just know how to grab it. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah.
Music is incredible, man. I love it.
It's and it's so subjective to like, that's, that's the other
thing. Like, yeah, it's, it's wild.
Like when you're making music, it's like, like I'll get excited

(01:49:03):
every time I have a idea, right?I'm like, this is going to be
the greatest shit in the world. People are going to listen to
this a billion times and it never happens.
But like every time that I make a song, I'm like, this is the
greatest shit in the world and I'll put it out.
And then it's not like when I put a album, put out a album,
right? I'll be like, OK look, I got 7

(01:49:24):
songs on this album or whatever,right?
And like, I'm like this song andthe other song are going to go
crazy and they're the last. They don't even do nothing.
It's the other songs that I didn't even think about.
The people are like, this is so good and I'm like, what are you
talking about? You're like, have you heard this
one? Though.
I'm like, of course it's good. But like, I like this is these

(01:49:45):
are the ones that are my favorite, you know?
Dude that happens so much. Well, it's like a 21 Pilots one
when I can't remember which songit is.
My kid would know one of like our favorite songs on one of
their albums they weren't even going to put on because they
didn't like it. And then they threw it in and
it's like one of the best songs on the album.
Dude, that reminds me, there's awhole that's crazy.

(01:50:06):
I miss VH1 because they used to talk about this stuff all the
time. But back in the day there was
this really lame hair metal bandcalled Warrant and they wanted
to sing like more involved metalsongs.
But at the time, everybody wanted ballads.
They wanted dudes wearing spandex and putting makeup on

(01:50:27):
and teasing up their hair like chicks and playing guitars.
And that was just the scene. And they're like, we need one of
those songs. Like they were like, we're not
going to publish the album untilyou give us like one of these
songs. And they fought him on it.
And then the the lead singer goes fine.
He went literally wrote the songin 1/2 hour on just pad of

(01:50:51):
paper, wrote it out and he's like this is the dumbest fucking
song. They'll never accept it.
Number one song they're known byright now even to this day.
What the hell, Cherry pie? Oh my gosh.
Yep, Yep. That's fun, that song and they
fucking hated it. They're like no, this won't like
you said, like you know, people are like this is going to be

(01:51:12):
this is this is like my my opus Magnus Magnus, This is this is
it. This is the song.
Yeah. Yeah, it's all right.
Yeah, that's, that's funny, man.Yeah.
No, I have to, I have to like remind myself a lot of times,
even when I'm like judging on the music or when I'm talking
about artists and I'm like, why'd you do that?

(01:51:33):
I didn't agree with that or whatever.
Like I do have to remind myself,like, music is subjective, So if
I don't like it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
It just means that I don't like it, you know?
Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's levels
to it, you know, like, I think obviously there are certain
things in my opinion that are they go a little too far and

(01:51:54):
people need to be a little more responsible.
Yeah, at the same time, maybe they're living their truth or
whatever. So I just sometimes I have to
remind myself, like, it's subjective and it's the art.
You don't like it, turn it off. Yeah.
So. Look at a different piece of art
you know man call. One man we got we got so much

(01:52:14):
love for you, dude. You are you are a close friend
of ours, truly. And I mean, this is so cool.
We want everybody go take a listen, go through it.
Guess which one that he thought was going to be the number one,
but it wasn't. We'll see which one is.
Somebody comment down there, right?
Tell us which one you think is the one that he thought like

(01:52:37):
this is. This is it.
This got to be his banger. Yeah, this.
Is going to be it and maybe it turns around, I don't know.
But brother, tell us what what'sgoing on right now with you?
What's something we could tell everybody about?
Well, I mean, cannabis is not the bad guy.
So I wanted to say that, you know, I thought it, I thought

(01:52:58):
cannabis was the bad guy for a long time.
And yeah, I think I just had to just get it over my traumatic
experiences and stuff like that and panic attacks and realize
that it wasn't cannabis. It was my life and things that I
had to sort through. And now I can actually enjoy it.

(01:53:19):
And it's been really nice, man. Like just being able to actually
enjoy things again that I like that I used to like, you know,
because when I got sober, I was really freaked out and worried
about my body and my health because when I was like on
autopilot, just doing a bunch ofdrugs and stuff, I wasn't

(01:53:41):
thinking about it. But then whenever I started,
when I got sober, I, I was reflecting on everything and I
was just like, I felt guilty andI felt ashamed and I felt like
something was wrong with my bodyor I wasn't healthy or like,
man, I've done so many drugs andstuff.
Like I'm freaked out now becausenow I'm thinking about it and

(01:54:02):
it's catching up to me like mentally.
Like holy crap. Like I really was doing meth for
a long time. I really was doing these things.
Like, I've had friends die from drugs.
I've had, you know, my friend's dad, he passed away from heart
failure and he was on a bunch ofdrugs back in the day, you know,
and obviously like he was, you know, he was sober for a long

(01:54:25):
time, but it's, you know, that happened.
And so it just, it made me thinklike, is something wrong with
me? Like I was really worried about
everything and had all that anxiety and just had like
survivor's guilt too, you know, just like, why am I, why I've
had talked about this in therapy, but I'm like, why am I

(01:54:46):
still here if other people are not, you know what I'm saying?
And he just, he was just like, well, you just are dude, like
that you, that's just the way itworks, you know, and you can't
like beat yourself up about it. And so I just think I had just
overly worried about everything.And I really try to like, calm

(01:55:07):
that down and just relax becauseto be honest with you, like
thinking about like, like being all freaked out about cannabis,
right? I, I've never had a moment where
it actually hurt me. You know what I'm saying?
I might have got a little freaked out or worried or

(01:55:27):
whatever. Yeah, but that's your mind.
I wasn't, I wasn't being responsible though.
Like if you think we go back to my cannabis days, like I was
escaping, you know what I'm saying?
I wasn't even using it really ina healthy way.
And so it already started off unhealthy.
And then I had these moments like I quit for like 2 years and

(01:55:48):
then I came back and smoked and took like four hits off of a
bowl and then I went to a huge panic attack.
And that was the scariest momentof my fucking life.
And I think about that every time I smoke now.
And that's what kind of triggersme to feel the way I feel is
because of that moment. But when I go back to that
moment, I'm like, the reason whyis because I took four hits like

(01:56:11):
a dumb ass after having after not two years of exactly.
Yeah. So it's like it wasn't even
necessary. The cannabis is just my decision
making. And so I just had to realize
like, you know, everything's fine.
I'm good and I can actually enjoy things again.
And if I don't want to do it, I won't do it.

(01:56:31):
And if I do, I will. And like, I think I was being
like really forceful about it, you know, for a while too.
Like I would just be like, I just need to chill out, you
know, I just need to get over it.
And I would smoke and then I would end up being freaked out,
you know, and like it got so badtoo, that like, I would like be
like, I would have to have the whole thing.
Like I'd have to be like, I haveto put on the cannabis school

(01:56:52):
podcast and I got to make sure that I'm listening to them while
I smoke that way like I can relax and feel good, you know
what I'm saying? And.
Mission accomplished. Mission accomplished.
Yes, and it's like, bro, like how relaxed are you doing it if
you have to think about all these things, you know what I'm
saying? Like back when I was smoking,

(01:57:13):
like in the beginning, beginningand I was enjoying it.
I wasn't fucking thinking about any of that shit.
I was just like, let's just fucking smoke, you know?
And I wasn't thinking about things so damn hard all the
time. And I've gotten to the point
where I've overthought so many things.
And like I've talked about this with like my friends and like my
fiance and they both said like you overthink everything, man.

(01:57:35):
And I. But to me it feels normal.
And so I've just, I've had to realize like certain things
about myself, like through therapy, that like I have
tendencies that don't serve me like very well.
Yeah, I don't notice them because.
You're in your head. Yeah, man, I'm used to doing

(01:57:55):
them. I'm like, this is just like,
it's almost like the, like some of these negative tendencies are
like they're, they're like comfortable for you even though
they're not good for you, you know what I'm saying?
And I overthink too many things.And so, yeah, I just had to
chill out and just realize like it's, it's really not, it's not
the cannabis, you know? And like the thing about

(01:58:16):
cannabis too is it's just very so powerful, you know what I'm
saying? Like it's, and it is, it's
psychoactive. So like, of course, if you're in
your head about something or if you're freaked out about it in
general because you had a traumatic experience or
whatever, then you might not be ready to smoke again.

(01:58:38):
Because, like, I clearly wasn't,I clearly wasn't ready, you
know, because I was going through all that stuff still.
And so, yeah, I just had to do some work and get back to like
the core of what's wrong versus like, oh, it's cannabis.
Like, Nah, I think cannabis opened me up to like the idea of

(01:58:58):
things being wrong, but I don't think it was necessarily
cannabis. Oh, I think it heightens a lot
of the problems that you have inyour life.
Like if you're, it's, it's different for everybody, you
know what I'm saying? But for me, it's like, if I'm
stressed out about this certain things and I smoke, I it's going
to make it worse. I'm going to be hyper fixated on

(01:59:18):
it, whatever, you know what I'm saying?
And it used to not be like that.I used to use it to escape
things and it worked, but I can't do that anymore.
And now it's like it it brings it up for me and makes it an
issue and it tricks me and it makes me feel like, you know,
then you get the body feeling and the anxiety and whatever.

(01:59:39):
Yeah. And it feels so real.
It really does, you know what I'm saying?
But it's not it's, it's, it's the heightened feeling of, of
all the things you're experiencing in the moment.
And so, yeah, if I'm stressed out or if I need to do something
that I'm worried about or whatever, just not going to
smoke, I'm going to smoke whenever I'm having a good day

(02:00:01):
and when I'm relaxed and I, and when I'm feeling OK, that that's
when I do it, you know, or when I'm creating music or if I'm
having a chill day mowing or something like that.
So, you know, like when I'm at home and I have to address
parental issues and I have to get on to my son and all this
stuff like I'm not, I'm not doing it then so.

(02:00:24):
I had to learn myself. I had to learn my body.
That's what I would say to anybody.
Like just just, you know. Because it's different to
everyone. Yeah, man, learn your body.
Learn like the moments when maybe you should back off or
something. You know what?
I'm saying I've been there. Instead of always giving it gas
all the time. Oh my gosh, that's why I don't

(02:00:45):
have carts anymore because cartsmake me do that.
I before I know it, I'll be likethis thing burned out.
Yeah, that's my problem. You'd like to.
They're bad. I went all through that and it's
usually my body. It's not somebody will say it's
your dope. You're trying to get more
dopamine cuz you're ADHD cuz what you're talking about you

(02:01:08):
overthink things. Well, that's not you overthink
things. That's just the way your brain
processes it. But you've noticed certain
things like, yeah, yeah, there'ssometimes where I'm probably not
doing the best things for you. That's I put that in your, in
your head, right? But you're in your superpower.
You're like, do this when thingsare going off, right?
Like my relationships are good. I'm on time to things.

(02:01:31):
I like getting my shit done right.
I enjoy work, even though it could be the same slog.
You just enjoy it. And it's, yeah, when you you're
in that time or you're overthinking.
You're you're so worried that you're going to let somebody
down. Yeah, that's the way I am.
I feel like I'm letting somebodydown.
So I fucking overthink it. Oh yeah, you said it because of

(02:01:55):
this. Cannabis and just, I don't know,
learning myself I guess. Yeah, no.
And, and, and on that, you know,it's it definitely is it's it's
learning about yourself throughout that process.
I, I know it's real easy to turnanything into something that's a
crutch and even sometimes where it may feel like it's a crutch,

(02:02:16):
I look at the what are, what arethe things that I'm actually
getting from this? Am I escaping or is this helping
me to be able to kind of just let down the anxiety of it?
I I like to use during work in the stressful time of calling.
Oh yeah. Right.
It just takes all the weight offand I'm just like, you know

(02:02:39):
what, I'm just doing it and theydon't like me.
It's cool, I'm feeling good. But there are times where I've
been like my wife will go, you've been out to smoke like 4
times here in the last hour and a half.
You know, it hasn't been that long, right?

(02:02:59):
And something's going on. So start seeing those signs
like, hey, maybe exactly, maybe you're going a little too far.
They're just looking check in like why am I doing this right
now? What am I feeling?
Am I feeling like what's causingthis, you know?
And then like, you know, set andsetting in the same way that
people treat psilocybin. Really you, you should be doing

(02:03:21):
with cannabis, right? What's your intent?
Like it's saying like that, likesometimes I have a strain where
I'm just like, you know, I get so heated because I'm in my
head. Yeah, it's my issue, not their
issue. They said things.
They may have done things, but that is not on me.
I have the choice to be able to be upset about it.
And sometimes it I can't get there.

(02:03:44):
I'm just like, Nope, fucking red, you're all dead here.
Every single one of you guys areall fucking dead.
And I got to get outside and I go, OK, I know this strain is
going to just bring me down to apoint where I can look at this
from the third party perspectivegoing, OK, what are you doing,

(02:04:04):
dude? Like, yeah, but they said these
things. What did those things affect
you? Like, I have this little
conversation in my head. Yeah.
In the garage, smoking and blowing it out the door.
Oh, yeah. And then by the time I finish my
bowl and I'm like, yeah, fuckingdime.
I'm making too big of a deal outof this.
Yeah, go in. And now my kids, when they smell

(02:04:24):
cannabis, they they don't get ifI went out and I was a little
upset and then I go into the garage and I come back in,
they're all a little bit more relaxed.
Yeah, they're like, oh, OK, that's.
Smoked. That's.
That's good. He's good.
He's not. He's in a better place.
He's not going to lose his shit on me.
He's This is going to be good. Yeah.
Oh, it's like, you know, cannabis is is there's there's a

(02:04:46):
lot of benefits, you know what I'm saying?
Especially like just being more open minded, you know, like I
think that's a huge one. I think it allows introspection
when you maybe naturally wouldn't think about those
things. You know what I'm saying?
And to be honest with you, I feel like that's like most of
the world's problems. It's just not being open minded,

(02:05:08):
man. Like everybody's just like
looking at it from 1 angle and it's like what?
Maybe if you had some cannabis or something like that.
Dude, cannabis warfare, that's what we should we should make
smoke grenades, but there are these things that just burn like
a bunch of dab inside it there and it just lights it off and
sprays it out because, you know,people wouldn't throw it back.
They would pick it up and. Take a big hit and then pass it

(02:05:31):
to the next. Person and then it it's like
throwing it first and then it's like hot potato and then people
are like anybody got another smoke grenade like you know, I
mean. This one's all empty.
Right. Or just get like I would love to
if we, if we could get somebody to sponsor us.
It's going to be millions of dollars to bail us out of

(02:05:51):
prison, but we'll get planes, crop dusting planes, fill them
with smoke and just crop dust anywhere that's having riots and
everybody will be chill. Just like Joe Rogan said, we'll
bring in food trucks. Yeah, right.
Everybody will be like, what thefuck are we fighting right now?
Like I don't know which is different.
And anyways, let's go get some food, right?

(02:06:15):
It just chills out. I don't know anybody who's just
like, well, just smoke some weed.
Let's go fuck it. Pete yeah, I think it could
cause some forced introspection,which can be really hard, I
think, for people who don't expect it or aren't ready for
it. Yeah, but that's good.
Hard things are good. It can be.
It's just, I think that one timethat I tried to help my

(02:06:39):
sister-in-law because she has Crohn's and I gave her a little
bit and it was a little bit too much and she was crying in the
shower for a while, like long time and that.
And I was like, you know, I feellike cannabis forces
introspection at times. And if you are really high, it's
a instantaneous force introspection.

(02:07:01):
And for people who don't ever take a look at themselves in the
mirror, it can sometimes be a really harsh slap in the face
of, oh fuck, this is who I am. And sometimes that might be
really abrupt, but it just maybedepends on, again, like I said,
everyone's different getting to know you.

(02:07:21):
But yeah, I think that is the only thing I worry about with
like that is the forced introspection that comes.
But I think dosing, proper dosing helps a lot with that
where maybe you don't get quite the drastic.
It is the mild hallucinogenic and so it's it's to be

(02:07:42):
respected. And that's where, like you said,
Kyle, like when you got to a point where you were just, it
almost hypnotized you. It's like, no, you want to feel
like this, like all the time. That's it.
That's this is what you want to do when you're doing it to the
point where you don't even realize you're doing it.
That's a lot. That's a lot.
And you got to back off now, man.

(02:08:02):
Hey, thank you, man, for being on the show today.
Yeah, man. We, we have had such a great
time. And thank you guys for listening
in here. This is a fantastic episode.
Go and listen to all of Kyle stuff.
Yeah, I'll have his links in theshow notes.
Go follow him along, check out his music.
Yeah, follow him on Instagram. Catch you next week.

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Kyle Trevor on Creativity, Cannabis, and Listening to Yourself

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