December 11, 2024 • 34 mins
Ever wondered why traffic gets under your skin, or why that presentation didn't feel quite right even though everyone loved it? This episode of Captain and the Clown dives into the sneaky world of expectations - those silent scripts we write in our heads that end up running the show.
Guy and Michelle get real about their own stumbles with expectations, from Michelle's story about a pilot who got so stuck on how things "should" go in a simulator that he nearly missed what was actually happening, to Guy's candid chat about feeling grumpy after a keynote speech despite rave reviews.
They tackle some fascinating stuff about why teenagers suddenly stop listening to their parents (turns out there might be a biological reason!), and share some proper lightbulb moments about how expectations mess with our daily lives. There's this brilliant bit where they talk about how changing your view of traffic from "nightmare" to "podcast time" can totally flip your experience.
What's really cool is their take on how different industries handle mistakes and expectations. They chat about how the aviation world has this refreshing "let's learn from this" approach, compared to other fields where mistakes often get swept under the rug.
If you're juggling leadership roles, dealing with teenagers (good luck!), or just trying to figure out why some days feel more stressful than others, this episode's got some proper gems for you. It's like having a chat with two mates who've figured out some of life's hidden operating instructions and are happy to share their notes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
G'day listeners. On this episode of Captain and the Clown we discuss expectations. Not just
(00:06):
expectations that we acknowledge and we have at the front of our mind, but the expectations that
lie under the silly stories we tell ourselves. Hope you get something out of this. Enjoy.
Why do it count backwards? Are they? We're now recording.
What? Hello Captain. What do I say?
(00:31):
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. What are we going to talk about?
I don't know. So leadership, life and everything else. Yeah.
And we're live in Darwin. We're in Darwin. We're not live.
(00:53):
I'm alive. True.
We love it up here, don't we? I know. It's become a regular destination.
We've got some beautiful clients up here yesterday doing some project management training for a
large construction company. Yes.
So that was fun. And I expect this episode to go very well, Michelle.
Your expectations are high. I have high expectations.
(01:15):
We're going to talk about expectations because I had an experience. Was it last week,
the big keynote I did? Yes.
Yeah. Now I'll preface this by saying when I came off stage and went outside and we were
packing up to go up, we had a lovely gentleman come up and say, oh, that was the best keynote
I've ever heard. Blah, blah, blah. I've been to lots of these things, but I was in a bit of a grump.
(01:38):
A funk. A funk.
Yes, because I'll say that I think I did a pretty good job up there and we got a lot of fantastic
feedback from people, but I'd set very, very big expectations on myself because I was trying some
new material and it was a very big audience. And so, yeah, I didn't realize at the time that I'd
(02:00):
built all my expectations up and it's something that we even teach not to do. And so I failed
my own lessons. Well, to me, it just made you seem more human because I still have a tendency to
put my expectations high, especially if I'm doing speaking and then fall short, even though it's
(02:24):
good. Very good. And the feedback from the audience is always lovely and inspiring and
uplifting. However, when your own expectation isn't met, which sometimes, and I admit is not
achievable, but I have this expectation. And for you to admit last week that it happened to you,
(02:45):
it selfishly made me feel like I was not doing so badly.
Thank you.
It happens. And I would imagine not being there myself, but elite sports people like you were,
that expectation that you put on yourself and then not being able to live up to it,
(03:07):
would produce a funk, even though the results were amazing, outstanding, you won, et cetera.
Yeah. Expectations are an interesting thing. So we did a podcast recently about getting to the
zone or flow, et cetera, using inner model of outer monologue. But yeah, I want to talk more
about this because in our anti-fragility and stress management course, we talk about,
(03:28):
you can't be stressed without an expectation. Expectations are the foundation of stress. So
the quick example I always use, I moved to Sydney from the country. The thing that annoyed me the
most was traffic. So I'd get in the car and I'd drive erratically like everyone else and
impatiently and I'd get stressed. But then I realized that if I tell myself that Sydney
(03:51):
traffic is a nightmare, I'm always going to be stressed. And so instead, I just changed it to
Sydney traffic is an opportunity to do something I enjoy. I love learning. So I'll listen to my
favorite podcasts, audio books, standup comedians. And now I love traffic because I get the opportunity
to learn and laugh. But when you analyze where that stress is coming from, when I think Sydney
(04:12):
traffic is a nightmare, what sits underneath that is an expectation that I should be able to get in
my car and go wherever I want with no traffic, Michelle, because I want to own the road.
You are the god.
I am the god of traffic.
Yes. The traffic pass.
The traffic passes. It's like the waters part, part, part, part, part. And yeah, so when you
analyze all your stress, what sits underneath it is an expectation that's not being met.
(04:34):
Yeah, like when, you know, getting the kids ready for school, if they're not doing how you want them
to your expectation is that they will bow and do whatever you want without any pushback and,
you know, do it how you would do it. Without you necessarily conveying it, but the expectations
there. And of course it doesn't happen like that. No, no. And so like going back to what you were
(04:55):
saying about elite sport and the flow that we're talking about the other day. Yeah. I remember
after, after we spoke about this, that there was one particular tournament we're in Sicily and
playing against the Italians who were the world champions. They were just the best. And, and I
had an expectation that I was going to play well. And I remember sitting there in the pool, they
(05:16):
were scoring at will. I was playing shit. I was playing horribly and I was beating myself up in
my head about, Oh, how could you play this badly? And then the coach even said, the reason why we're
doing the defense that we're doing is because you can't save a shot. And that made things worse for
me. And I was so much encouragement. I don't blame him. Like I was playing shit, you know, I was
(05:36):
meant to be, you know, an elite athlete and I was, no, not yet. Not yet. I think it was before then,
but I was, I was playing horribly. And I remember trying to get out of my head. I couldn't get out
of my head. And it was a really awful experience, but what was, what was going on is my expectations
of being able to perform rather than focusing on my systems and my training and what, what I'm there
(06:02):
to do. So in other words, connecting with the moment. Yep. Yep. And so, and the play at,
as it's actually happening. Exactly. So almost like get out of your head. I was so
in my head. So expectations not being met is where the majority of our stress comes from.
Yeah. And I'd really built up that keynote, I think also primarily cause we were videoing it
(06:26):
for my new speaker reel. And I'd set up all of these expectations in my head about how I was
going to be on stage. And, and then it was this massive room with four, 500, 500 people in the
room and, and they were sitting as far away from me as possible. It was a, it was one of those
conferences where nobody wants to sit at the front. So I typically like engaging with the audience
(06:49):
and I couldn't get, I couldn't get that engagement cause they were so far away. But then you told me
later that the people down the back were really engaging, but I couldn't hear them and I couldn't
see them. And so, yeah. Even though I, you know, I'll, I'll say, I think I delivered a great keynote
because of the feedback. It wasn't where my expectations were. And as a result, I had a real
(07:10):
funk that day. We experienced something similar when doing simulator training and simulator testing.
So there's a, there's a real thing that happens, which is when you don't necessarily, you know,
you muck something up in the simulator check and there is a tendency to ruminate on that.
(07:35):
Meanwhile, the aircraft simulator is flying at 900 kilometers an hour and you're missing more
things. And then you're, because you're stuck in your head and the expectation was, and you may
have arm chaired it, probably I'm chaired it, looked over the approach plate, known even from,
you know, hearing other pilots talking about what the sim check was about.
(07:58):
So arm chairing is preparing mentally.
Yeah. And we've spoken about this before where, you know, athletes do it and pilots do it.
Mental rehearsal.
Yeah. Mental rehearsal in the arm chair or not in the actual aircraft. Although you have also said
in a previous podcast that anytime you missed a shot when you were goalkeeper, that rather than
(08:20):
Getting the ball out straight away.
Yeah. Putting the ball out, you would mentally rehearse what it looked like that that goal,
that you saved the goal rather than it went past you.
Yeah. Rewired it as a lesson and a future success.
Yeah. So we were told and check captains would know this and would see it. And the good ones would
stop the simulator, especially on new pilots and to the company and say, hey, this is what we've
(08:47):
noticed that, you know, and it, and it's a thing that happens. You're not, it's not just you,
you're, you're normal. And this is an opportunity now to point it out and to help you get over it
where you've got to let it go and you've got to continue. Otherwise, you know, you're stuck back
there and, and things are happening and you get into all sorts of mess because you're not in the
(09:10):
moment. And so that expectation of, it will go well and you should do it a certain way. If it
doesn't happen on the day or the, that time, rather than beating yourself up because of that
expectation, you've got to, you've got to let it go. Yeah. Because you've got to react in the moment
to what's happening in the moment. You've got, you've got to connect to the present moment.
(09:31):
Yes. And when you're in your head, like you said, you're not connecting. And so therefore
you're just going to perform worse and worse and worse. I remember one particular SIM session and
the captain, I was the first officer and the captain, very good captain, good pilot still is,
and just, he set himself up. Now the background was he had some stuff happening at home.
(09:54):
And so he wasn't a hundred percent in, in the game, so to speak, but a lot of notes had gone
around about that particular SIM check. So there, we knew there was an expectation of what was going
to happen. We, we were given the notes from the company about you will be required to perform
these maneuvers throughout the line, operate, exercise the LOE, but how it was going to be done
(10:20):
was meant to be a bit of a, you know, in the moment, however, everyone knew how it was going
to be done, you know, turning inbound the left engine or fail and you'll, you'll get this warning.
And then the expectation from the check captain is that you will do this, this and this. So it's not
really a surprise. The captain I was flying with had read all of the notes from the other pilots.
(10:42):
So his expectations were locked in. He was rigid on what was going to happen now because,
so everything was going well as per the cheat sheets. And then he, he was wears glasses with
his headset and he had to put on an oxygen mask was one of the failures that we were expecting.
(11:04):
However, what happened was because his glasses got in the way and he hadn't practiced that and
it was, it took longer than what he anticipated and what the cheat notes had said, because other
people, it had taken a certain amount of time, which meant you were so many nautical miles from
the approach and all this. We were then not in the same position that everyone else had been in.
(11:30):
So rather than adjusting his expectation based on now we're not where we were meant to be,
as per the notes, he followed the notes as in, in his mind. So it, the picture out the front window
was not what it should be because we were not in the position we should have been to commence.
And there was, he just got fixated on this. No, this is how it's meant to be the expectation
(11:55):
rather than what was actually happening. And it was the only simulator exercise. And thankfully
I never had to do it in flight where I had to say the words captain, you must listen,
which is basically you have to take over the captain's no longer in control. Okay.
Um, because they're, they're not listening, they're not seeing what's what's happening. And,
(12:17):
you know, you don't want to do that in a simulator exercise, especially a check,
because it could mean that that captain fails. Yeah. And you don't, you look after your mates
and you, you know, your colleagues. That's right. And it's two crew, you know, you're,
you're in it together. Yeah. And so it was really, really hard. You know, it's, he was saying no,
and we, we basically had one engine on reduced power, which we were set up for a perfect three
(12:42):
degree slope in on one runway, but the notes had said that we were on the opposite runway.
So he was trying to do that, which we wouldn't have made it. Okay. And he just kept on saying,
no, no, it's set up for this, set up for this. And it's like, well, we're perfectly on profile.
And you know, it's straight ahead and no, no. And then we said, not only did he have expectations,
(13:02):
he was being quite stubborn as well. Well, that's right. Because he was still thinking about,
one, he was thinking about what was coming next as per the notes, but also the stuff up that had
occurred because of the oxygen mask. He was still in his head about that. So he wasn't able to see
what was really happening. Yeah. Cause he's, his expectations, the notes that he had took him away
(13:24):
from reality. Yeah. Yeah. So this is what happens when you have very strong expectations, filters
start to appear in your mind where you're seeing the world through these filters. And we were
talking about this this morning. So if you have certain expectations, let's say you have an
expectation that your partner does this or your colleague does, should do that. And so that
(13:46):
expectation is entrenched in your mind. And so what happens is when they don't do what you're
expecting, your brain goes, ah, look, they're not doing it. And then you start to get into this
mindset, are he or she always does this or always doesn't do that. Or this always happens to me.
This always happens to me. Yeah. Or you never. And so we start to catastrophize and label it as
(14:14):
happening all the time or never happening ever. And so then in your partnership or your job or
your relationship with your kids or whoever it is, you've never got this filter where you're looking
for it to never happen or to always happen. And then you then ignore the evidence that's counter
to that. So if your if your if your statement is you never do this, you will never see it when they
(14:39):
do do it. Yeah. Because that won't justify and validate your perspective, your paradigm. And so
then you have that argument with them, are you never do this? And then they try and point out
a time that they did do it and you don't remember that because your brain didn't allow you to
actually take that information in. So you'll you will actively start to ignore evidence to the
contrary. And so expectations are really actually quite dangerous things, aren't they? They are.
(15:04):
The good thing that happened out of that CIMEX was that he was a good checky and could see that
there was an opportunity for a lesson. Now, guaranteed that Captain and I have always been
able to recognize when we have that expectation bias almost. And since then, because it was a
(15:25):
great lesson. Now, he didn't fail. We didn't fail. And he he was able to stop and point out
exactly when it happened. And as a mentor, rather than coaching, say, you know, get get us to self
self-assess. And it was really, really powerful and really helpful. Now, again, we had a great
(15:47):
checky. We had the time in the simulator and that, you know, we were both open to this feedback.
And and it did it. So that was day one. And then the next day, you know, we went on and
passed. And that's that's one of the things that I love about pilots from what you've told me is
that you're all open to learning. You're all open to owning your mistakes. And when so when you make
(16:09):
a mistake, you own it, you learn from it, and then you don't repeat it. That's it. Whereas in other
industries, you know, they actively hide mistakes in the medical industry. And they're they used to
because they're encouraged by the insurance companies to hide their mistakes, unless they be
sued. Well, money, that's all money. But yeah, hopefully that industry is starting to learn
(16:33):
or change and act more like the aviation industry where there's no fault. It's more every,
every opportunity to learn is taken. So if there's a mistake made or whatever,
you act as an industry, you've told me you actively look for the lessons in it to share
that lessons with everyone else. Yes, there's no fault. Yeah. So and they look at the system
(16:55):
systemic issues rather than that that person individually. Yeah. So procedural issues and
system issues. Yeah. And because potentially if it happens once, it's it will happen again
and has happened previously. Yeah. So and there's a great book and I'm not sure if I've mentioned
it before Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed. And it I was I was recommended that book by
(17:22):
a fellow pilot, Rich, and he and it is it's a great book that Matthew gives great stories from
aviation. And he he compares it to the medical world. And he says and he quotes and we've also
said it in aviation, you know, amongst other pilots that pilots can't hide their accidents
(17:47):
where especially where lives are lost. And it can be hundreds of lives lost because of one accident,
whereas doctors kill people one at a time, which is a morbid way of looking at it. But
but reading through this book, I actually got quite angry at the some of the stories,
(18:07):
whether they were true or not, about how doctors had covered up mistakes. Yeah,
well, medical mistakes happen one person at a time. That's right. But how they'd covered them
up saying that the patient had an underlying problem or they already had this. And yeah,
I really recommend this book Black Box Thinking Black Box Thinking. It's an amazing book. It's
(18:30):
great. So coming back to expectations, the expectations that we have really determine
our experience in life. Yes. Yeah. So if you if you look at anything that causes you stress,
what sits under that stress is an expectation that's not being met. And I'll use an example
I love talking about in the customer experience workshops that we run. I you know, I'm a nerd,
(18:54):
I got a background in IT. I started before Windows, I think DOS and WordPerfect for DOS. So that's how
old I am. Before the mouse, Michelle. Oh, okay. I didn't know there was no mouse. Yeah, we had
orange writing on a computer monitor with a keyboard attached with one of those remember those old
telephones that had the curly cord. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So imagine one of the curly cords attached
(19:17):
into a monitor and orange writing on the screen. That's how old I am. Wow. Yes. Anyway, so then
Windows came out, and we rolled out Windows Microsoft Office. And I'm sure everyone listening
would have had this experience, you call the help desk and they go, have you turned it off then back
on. And I remember when I was working on the help desk, and we rolled out Windows and you quickly
(19:39):
learned that if there was ever a fault, you just turn the computer off and back on then the fault
goes away. Yeah, everything resets. And so I started to get a little bit stressed on the help desk,
because people would ring up and I'd go, have you turned it off then back on. You can hear it in my
voice, can't you? The Greek guy parachuting. Yes. Condescending. And it's the worst joke ever,
but I love it. I love it. You know me with bad jokes. Anyway, and then one day I was sitting there
(20:03):
and I was kind of studying psychology at the same time. And I realized, hold on a second,
I have an expectation that my customers should know that to fix most computer problems with
Windows, especially, is you turn it off then back on. And then the problem's fixed. And so
because I had that underlying expectation, people would bring me on the help desk. I go, help desk,
guy speaking. And they go, yeah, look, I've got this problem with my computer and blah, blah, blah.
(20:27):
And I'd go, well, have you turned it off then back on? And they go, of course I have. Do you
think I'm an idiot? I said, well, settle mate. I'm just trying to help you. And it wasn't a very good
experience for the customers. But then I realized I've got to remove the expectation that my
customers know what I know. Because if my customers knew what I knew. You didn't have a job. I wouldn't
have a job. They wouldn't be calling me. And I remember a beautiful phone call the following
(20:49):
week. This guy rang me up and we used to get this a lot in IT. They'd ring up and they go,
oh, hi, guy. I'm really stupid. I don't know how to get the computer to do this thing.
And I remember instinctively, because of that new mindset that I developed the week before,
I said, mate, you're not stupid. You've just never learned it. Today's the day you're going
to learn it. And I'm going to be the person teaching it to you. And he went, oh, thanks,
(21:10):
guys. That's right, mate. I have to learn it at some stage. Today's your day. And then my
experience on that phone call changed dramatically. His experience on the phone call changed
dramatically. And I realized that what was sitting underneath my, I guess, condescending
manner towards my customers early on was the expectation that they knew what I knew.
Yeah. And that happens in so many situations. I was talking to another student and he had a similar
(21:34):
one. So he worked in a local council and he worked doing what's called GIS mapping. So it's basically
mapping like Google Maps or Apple Maps or whatever. And so in the council area, they're always
doing different maps and modifying the maps based on any work. Anyway, I don't know it too well.
But he said, yeah, I had a similar experience. I said, can you tell me about it? He said, well,
(21:55):
yeah, I was sitting at my desk and one of my colleagues came up and asked me to do some work
about some mapping work. And I said, yeah, no problem. An hour later, he's standing at my desk
asking, has it been done? And I got really angry. And I told him, look, mate, seriously, I'll get it
to you when I can. And when we were doing the training and we're talking about underlying
expectations, he said, yeah, guy, I've realized that I was expecting him to know how long my work
(22:19):
took. And I didn't manage that expectation. So I said, what are you going to do in the future? He
said, well, next time somebody comes up to me to request some work, which they do all of the time,
I'm going to say, yeah, absolutely. I can do that for you. Look, just to let you know, it's going to
probably take about this many hours. I'll see if I can do it quicker. But I'll get back to you when
it's done. And he said the next time I saw him that all of his stress has gone away because he
(22:41):
didn't realize that he wasn't managing other people's expectations. And he had an expectation
that his customers knew exactly how long things took. I've been having this issue with my daughter.
She a teenager who knows everything. I wish I knew as much. All teenagers know everything, Michelle,
don't you know that? We knew it when we were teenagers. We were so much smarter than our
(23:06):
parents. God, look back at those times and to think that we were the most brilliant and they
were the most stupid. I can't believe, yeah, anyway, sorry. Well, her expectation is that I
will say yes without any information to her requests, like parties and going out and
sleepovers and things. And my expectation is that she will provide the information to me
(23:29):
when she asks. So that you feel confident and comfortable and safe to say yes.
So we're a little far apart on our expectations. So I actually sat down with her and went through,
I would love to say yes. I try to always say yes or a version of yes to you. However, this is what
(23:51):
I require. And I said, I know it's annoying to you that I keep asking questions, but, and I wrote
down a list of what I would need to know in order to say yes. So now she has that. She actually put
it as a note on her phone. So when she texts me, she texts me the answers already. So it's great.
(24:11):
It's brilliant. That is good. That's very good. We'll see you managed your expectations. You
managed her expectations. Oh, but it took a while to get to have the conversation. Otherwise we
were both frustrated. Yeah. Oh, that's just natural. Mothers and daughters and fathers and sons
and fathers and daughters. And yeah, when they're in their teenage years, they know more than us.
(24:31):
And we knew more than our parents. Yeah. But we did find out a couple of weeks ago. Why? Oh yes.
This is fascinating. Yeah. I think you should tell it because we tell it better than I do.
Yeah. So the theory goes that when we become teenagers, our instinct is to not listen to our
parents anymore, to actually distance ourselves from our parents. And the theory, the biological
(24:58):
theory is this, that when you become a teenager, you are actually fertile. Your body is getting
ready to produce offspring. And so one of the things your body does is it tells you to move away
from your parents, move away from your family, move away from that community. Because biologically,
we should be going to a different village to go on and find a mate and have offspring.
(25:20):
Having offspring in the same village is not a good thing for the species. No. And so the theory
goes that when you become a teenager, your biology is telling you to stop listening to your parents,
ignore everything that they're saying, move away from them, go to another village, find a mate and
reproduce the species. And that's if true. And it sounds kind of, it resonates with me that, yeah,
(25:41):
every teenager goes through this. We stop listening to our parents. We know better.
There's now a biological understanding of, or possible theory as to why that happens. They're
being told by their biology, leave where you are now. So distance yourself from.
Yeah. It doesn't make it easier though.
No. But it gives us a reason. It gives us, with understanding comes acceptance. Yeah. Because if
(26:07):
we're expecting our teenagers to listen to us, but their body is telling them not to,
our expectation is wrong. Which is why then your friend group as parents and who you,
who you tend to gather with is very important because. Especially during the teenage years.
Yeah. Whilst, whilst they're not listening to you, they may be listening to one of your friends who's
(26:31):
saying exactly the same thing, but it's not you. And that's why we, we actively seek out people
in our community, in our, in our beautiful people in our network, our, our very close friends. And,
and we want the children to be around them because of the influence that they'll have on them. We,
we, we, we're conscious on this, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. Because your children don't want to listen
(26:54):
to you, but they will listen to somebody else. And I'm, I'm still at a point where my beautiful
little 11 year old son wants to listen to me and I love it. I love it. He actually asks me to have
chats about what we teach and I love it. I love it. Cause he's just got this thirst to learn from me
at the moment. Is it 12 that they start, stop listening? 13, 12, 13, 14. And that's where you
(27:18):
need to provide them with other adults, sources of information, sources of information, because
they will, they will listen to a sports coach. They'll listen to a, you know, an adult figure,
who they respect. A cool dad. Yeah. A cool friend who doesn't have to make them eat their vegetables.
And so they're not always frustrated by it. And yeah, so I'm hoping I don't experience that,
(27:43):
but yeah, I'm ready for it. When he doesn't want to listen to me anymore, I'm going to say, hey,
look, here's some amazing people. Yeah. If you ever want to talk, I'm always here,
but here's some other people that you can, you can talk to.
Expectations, it's saying, acknowledging that expectations are the underlying cause of a lot
of disappointment, anxiety, uh, depression, because it's in the future or in the past,
(28:07):
not actually living in the present, but how like it's good knowing this, but then actually
change it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think my theory is that we should become,
aware of, and I want to say conversant with, we should be talking to our expectations. I know
this sounds a bit weird, but curious, curious with our expectations. So every time you feel stress,
(28:33):
just stop and think what is the expectation that is not being met, that's sitting underneath and
become friends with the expectations that you have. And so I think that's the way to do it.
And, and become friends with them, become friends with your expectations because we all have them.
We have expectations about how our partners should behave, how our boss should communicate to us,
(28:58):
how our customer should engage with us, how children should do that. Yeah, we should on
everything. But if you can change your relationship with your expectations and see them just as
entities that you've created that are also malleable, that you can change, that you can
adjust them. They are not laws. They're not a hundred percent truths. They're not things that you
(29:21):
should stand by like, like a policeman stands by the law or the judge stands by the legislation.
You, you are able to rewrite them. And when you rewrite them or, and adjust them for your own
health, mental health and success, then, then you're more in control of your life.
Well, getting curious with it, some of the expectations are ridiculous. Like if you actually
(29:44):
look at them, that I'm the traffic guard. Yeah. Or that, that don't people know who I am as I walk
into a room that nobody knows me. You know, we saw that the other day. That's right.
That it's the actual underlying expectations. Generally I am generalizing here. Ah, ridiculous,
(30:06):
stupid, like idealized, idealization. I can't speak. Idealization. Ideation. Ideation. There
we go. Uh, I put too many. Sorry, we're throwing syllables just to create our own words. So
then people do that. It is, it's ridiculous. And if they, it was spelt out and you'd be like, no.
(30:28):
Ideation, idealization, ideas. Anyway. Yeah. But no, but the, that expectation, if it was spelt out,
the expectations you'd think, no, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. If they were written
down in black and white in front of you, what your expectations were, because quite often we,
we hide them behind stupid thoughts. So for example, Sydney traffic is a nightmare.
(30:50):
What sits underneath that is I should be able to get in my car and drive wherever I want,
whenever I want and have no other traffic. Yeah. Yes. There is no traffic. So Sydney
traffic is a nightmare. It looks like a logical statement, doesn't it? Yeah. It looks very logical
and everyone could sit around having a glass of wine and agree to that. You can have a conversation
with your friends. Oh, isn't Sydney traffic a nightmare and your friends before the M4 was
(31:13):
around. Yeah. And so, and you're all your friends would go, yeah, isn't it all those cars, but you're
all deluding yourself because what sits underneath the statement that Sydney traffic is a nightmare.
And it's so much better now. Thank you to those tunnels that we've just had built in Sydney. Well
done government for doing some infrastructure that actually works. But, um, sorry, but what's
it's underneath that expectation or that, that statement Sydney traffic is a nightmare isn't,
(31:36):
it's the most absurd, ridiculous expectation that you should be able to get in your car
whenever you want and drive wherever you want without any other cars. Yes. Oh, it is absurd.
Just get in your car earlier. Give yourself some contingencies and some buffer, you know,
allow an extra 20 minutes or half an hour. And in that half an hour, listen to a podcast like
(31:58):
captain and the clown and fill your brain full of knowledge and laugh at the idiot, the clown on
the other end of the, the microphone, because our expectations sit underneath everything and it
creates the experience that we have in life. Yeah. Sounds easy. Hey,
(32:19):
we teach it and yet we catch ourselves. But here's the beautiful thing, right? Because we teach it,
we're aware of it, which makes us able to catch it more often than most people. And that's not
bragging. That's I guess, just admitting reality that because we are conscious of it,
we're beating my head against the wall enough times by, by teaching it, uh, you know, and it's
(32:41):
every single time I teach it's like, Oh, of course, of course, of course, yes, because we're human.
Yeah. Yeah. But the people who don't teach this or who haven't learned it yet, learned, learned,
learned it yet. We'll, we'll use the UK learnt, um, because the people who haven't learned it yet,
you can't expect them to understand where their stress is coming from and who gets taught this
(33:04):
stuff at school. Yeah, no one, no one, no one. That was a fun podcast. I expected it to go well
and it did. Otherwise I'd be in a funk right now. Just like the other day where all my expectations
didn't happen, but still, yeah, it's, it's an interesting concept. Yeah. Bose, thank you for, uh,
the headphones that we've got now, but we paid for them. How about some sponsorship? Bollinger,
(33:27):
like we've, we've enjoyed a few of you over the years, but uh, Lint, come on, seriously,
we're waiting. We're patient. Our expectation is that people will find us and just give us
money and goods. Yeah. And yeah, we maybe have to change our expectation and start doing the
necessary marketing for the volunteer to want to sponsor us. Michelle. All right. That was fun.
(33:51):
Bye guy. Bye. Well, that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. Lady captain.
Yeah. And who's going to listen to this? Maybe I'm numb. Thanks mom.
G'day listeners. On this episode of Captain and the Clown we discuss expectations. Not just
(00:06):
expectations that we acknowledge and we have at the front of our mind, but the expectations that
lie under the silly stories we tell ourselves. Hope you get something out of this. Enjoy.
Why do it count backwards? Are they? We're now recording.
What? Hello Captain. What do I say?
(00:31):
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away. What are we going to talk about?
I don't know. So leadership, life and everything else. Yeah.
And we're live in Darwin. We're in Darwin. We're not live.
(00:53):
I'm alive. True.
We love it up here, don't we? I know. It's become a regular destination.
We've got some beautiful clients up here yesterday doing some project management training for a
large construction company. Yes.
So that was fun. And I expect this episode to go very well, Michelle.
Your expectations are high. I have high expectations.
(01:15):
We're going to talk about expectations because I had an experience. Was it last week,
the big keynote I did? Yes.
Yeah. Now I'll preface this by saying when I came off stage and went outside and we were
packing up to go up, we had a lovely gentleman come up and say, oh, that was the best keynote
I've ever heard. Blah, blah, blah. I've been to lots of these things, but I was in a bit of a grump.
(01:38):
A funk. A funk.
Yes, because I'll say that I think I did a pretty good job up there and we got a lot of fantastic
feedback from people, but I'd set very, very big expectations on myself because I was trying some
new material and it was a very big audience. And so, yeah, I didn't realize at the time that I'd
(02:00):
built all my expectations up and it's something that we even teach not to do. And so I failed
my own lessons. Well, to me, it just made you seem more human because I still have a tendency to
put my expectations high, especially if I'm doing speaking and then fall short, even though it's
(02:24):
good. Very good. And the feedback from the audience is always lovely and inspiring and
uplifting. However, when your own expectation isn't met, which sometimes, and I admit is not
achievable, but I have this expectation. And for you to admit last week that it happened to you,
(02:45):
it selfishly made me feel like I was not doing so badly.
Thank you.
It happens. And I would imagine not being there myself, but elite sports people like you were,
that expectation that you put on yourself and then not being able to live up to it,
(03:07):
would produce a funk, even though the results were amazing, outstanding, you won, et cetera.
Yeah. Expectations are an interesting thing. So we did a podcast recently about getting to the
zone or flow, et cetera, using inner model of outer monologue. But yeah, I want to talk more
about this because in our anti-fragility and stress management course, we talk about,
(03:28):
you can't be stressed without an expectation. Expectations are the foundation of stress. So
the quick example I always use, I moved to Sydney from the country. The thing that annoyed me the
most was traffic. So I'd get in the car and I'd drive erratically like everyone else and
impatiently and I'd get stressed. But then I realized that if I tell myself that Sydney
(03:51):
traffic is a nightmare, I'm always going to be stressed. And so instead, I just changed it to
Sydney traffic is an opportunity to do something I enjoy. I love learning. So I'll listen to my
favorite podcasts, audio books, standup comedians. And now I love traffic because I get the opportunity
to learn and laugh. But when you analyze where that stress is coming from, when I think Sydney
(04:12):
traffic is a nightmare, what sits underneath that is an expectation that I should be able to get in
my car and go wherever I want with no traffic, Michelle, because I want to own the road.
You are the god.
I am the god of traffic.
Yes. The traffic pass.
The traffic passes. It's like the waters part, part, part, part, part. And yeah, so when you
analyze all your stress, what sits underneath it is an expectation that's not being met.
(04:34):
Yeah, like when, you know, getting the kids ready for school, if they're not doing how you want them
to your expectation is that they will bow and do whatever you want without any pushback and,
you know, do it how you would do it. Without you necessarily conveying it, but the expectations
there. And of course it doesn't happen like that. No, no. And so like going back to what you were
(04:55):
saying about elite sport and the flow that we're talking about the other day. Yeah. I remember
after, after we spoke about this, that there was one particular tournament we're in Sicily and
playing against the Italians who were the world champions. They were just the best. And, and I
had an expectation that I was going to play well. And I remember sitting there in the pool, they
(05:16):
were scoring at will. I was playing shit. I was playing horribly and I was beating myself up in
my head about, Oh, how could you play this badly? And then the coach even said, the reason why we're
doing the defense that we're doing is because you can't save a shot. And that made things worse for
me. And I was so much encouragement. I don't blame him. Like I was playing shit, you know, I was
(05:36):
meant to be, you know, an elite athlete and I was, no, not yet. Not yet. I think it was before then,
but I was, I was playing horribly. And I remember trying to get out of my head. I couldn't get out
of my head. And it was a really awful experience, but what was, what was going on is my expectations
of being able to perform rather than focusing on my systems and my training and what, what I'm there
(06:02):
to do. So in other words, connecting with the moment. Yep. Yep. And so, and the play at,
as it's actually happening. Exactly. So almost like get out of your head. I was so
in my head. So expectations not being met is where the majority of our stress comes from.
Yeah. And I'd really built up that keynote, I think also primarily cause we were videoing it
(06:26):
for my new speaker reel. And I'd set up all of these expectations in my head about how I was
going to be on stage. And, and then it was this massive room with four, 500, 500 people in the
room and, and they were sitting as far away from me as possible. It was a, it was one of those
conferences where nobody wants to sit at the front. So I typically like engaging with the audience
(06:49):
and I couldn't get, I couldn't get that engagement cause they were so far away. But then you told me
later that the people down the back were really engaging, but I couldn't hear them and I couldn't
see them. And so, yeah. Even though I, you know, I'll, I'll say, I think I delivered a great keynote
because of the feedback. It wasn't where my expectations were. And as a result, I had a real
(07:10):
funk that day. We experienced something similar when doing simulator training and simulator testing.
So there's a, there's a real thing that happens, which is when you don't necessarily, you know,
you muck something up in the simulator check and there is a tendency to ruminate on that.
(07:35):
Meanwhile, the aircraft simulator is flying at 900 kilometers an hour and you're missing more
things. And then you're, because you're stuck in your head and the expectation was, and you may
have arm chaired it, probably I'm chaired it, looked over the approach plate, known even from,
you know, hearing other pilots talking about what the sim check was about.
(07:58):
So arm chairing is preparing mentally.
Yeah. And we've spoken about this before where, you know, athletes do it and pilots do it.
Mental rehearsal.
Yeah. Mental rehearsal in the arm chair or not in the actual aircraft. Although you have also said
in a previous podcast that anytime you missed a shot when you were goalkeeper, that rather than
(08:20):
Getting the ball out straight away.
Yeah. Putting the ball out, you would mentally rehearse what it looked like that that goal,
that you saved the goal rather than it went past you.
Yeah. Rewired it as a lesson and a future success.
Yeah. So we were told and check captains would know this and would see it. And the good ones would
stop the simulator, especially on new pilots and to the company and say, hey, this is what we've
(08:47):
noticed that, you know, and it, and it's a thing that happens. You're not, it's not just you,
you're, you're normal. And this is an opportunity now to point it out and to help you get over it
where you've got to let it go and you've got to continue. Otherwise, you know, you're stuck back
there and, and things are happening and you get into all sorts of mess because you're not in the
(09:10):
moment. And so that expectation of, it will go well and you should do it a certain way. If it
doesn't happen on the day or the, that time, rather than beating yourself up because of that
expectation, you've got to, you've got to let it go. Yeah. Because you've got to react in the moment
to what's happening in the moment. You've got, you've got to connect to the present moment.
(09:31):
Yes. And when you're in your head, like you said, you're not connecting. And so therefore
you're just going to perform worse and worse and worse. I remember one particular SIM session and
the captain, I was the first officer and the captain, very good captain, good pilot still is,
and just, he set himself up. Now the background was he had some stuff happening at home.
(09:54):
And so he wasn't a hundred percent in, in the game, so to speak, but a lot of notes had gone
around about that particular SIM check. So there, we knew there was an expectation of what was going
to happen. We, we were given the notes from the company about you will be required to perform
these maneuvers throughout the line, operate, exercise the LOE, but how it was going to be done
(10:20):
was meant to be a bit of a, you know, in the moment, however, everyone knew how it was going
to be done, you know, turning inbound the left engine or fail and you'll, you'll get this warning.
And then the expectation from the check captain is that you will do this, this and this. So it's not
really a surprise. The captain I was flying with had read all of the notes from the other pilots.
(10:42):
So his expectations were locked in. He was rigid on what was going to happen now because,
so everything was going well as per the cheat sheets. And then he, he was wears glasses with
his headset and he had to put on an oxygen mask was one of the failures that we were expecting.
(11:04):
However, what happened was because his glasses got in the way and he hadn't practiced that and
it was, it took longer than what he anticipated and what the cheat notes had said, because other
people, it had taken a certain amount of time, which meant you were so many nautical miles from
the approach and all this. We were then not in the same position that everyone else had been in.
(11:30):
So rather than adjusting his expectation based on now we're not where we were meant to be,
as per the notes, he followed the notes as in, in his mind. So it, the picture out the front window
was not what it should be because we were not in the position we should have been to commence.
And there was, he just got fixated on this. No, this is how it's meant to be the expectation
(11:55):
rather than what was actually happening. And it was the only simulator exercise. And thankfully
I never had to do it in flight where I had to say the words captain, you must listen,
which is basically you have to take over the captain's no longer in control. Okay.
Um, because they're, they're not listening, they're not seeing what's what's happening. And,
(12:17):
you know, you don't want to do that in a simulator exercise, especially a check,
because it could mean that that captain fails. Yeah. And you don't, you look after your mates
and you, you know, your colleagues. That's right. And it's two crew, you know, you're,
you're in it together. Yeah. And so it was really, really hard. You know, it's, he was saying no,
and we, we basically had one engine on reduced power, which we were set up for a perfect three
(12:42):
degree slope in on one runway, but the notes had said that we were on the opposite runway.
So he was trying to do that, which we wouldn't have made it. Okay. And he just kept on saying,
no, no, it's set up for this, set up for this. And it's like, well, we're perfectly on profile.
And you know, it's straight ahead and no, no. And then we said, not only did he have expectations,
(13:02):
he was being quite stubborn as well. Well, that's right. Because he was still thinking about,
one, he was thinking about what was coming next as per the notes, but also the stuff up that had
occurred because of the oxygen mask. He was still in his head about that. So he wasn't able to see
what was really happening. Yeah. Cause he's, his expectations, the notes that he had took him away
(13:24):
from reality. Yeah. Yeah. So this is what happens when you have very strong expectations, filters
start to appear in your mind where you're seeing the world through these filters. And we were
talking about this this morning. So if you have certain expectations, let's say you have an
expectation that your partner does this or your colleague does, should do that. And so that
(13:46):
expectation is entrenched in your mind. And so what happens is when they don't do what you're
expecting, your brain goes, ah, look, they're not doing it. And then you start to get into this
mindset, are he or she always does this or always doesn't do that. Or this always happens to me.
This always happens to me. Yeah. Or you never. And so we start to catastrophize and label it as
(14:14):
happening all the time or never happening ever. And so then in your partnership or your job or
your relationship with your kids or whoever it is, you've never got this filter where you're looking
for it to never happen or to always happen. And then you then ignore the evidence that's counter
to that. So if your if your if your statement is you never do this, you will never see it when they
(14:39):
do do it. Yeah. Because that won't justify and validate your perspective, your paradigm. And so
then you have that argument with them, are you never do this? And then they try and point out
a time that they did do it and you don't remember that because your brain didn't allow you to
actually take that information in. So you'll you will actively start to ignore evidence to the
contrary. And so expectations are really actually quite dangerous things, aren't they? They are.
(15:04):
The good thing that happened out of that CIMEX was that he was a good checky and could see that
there was an opportunity for a lesson. Now, guaranteed that Captain and I have always been
able to recognize when we have that expectation bias almost. And since then, because it was a
(15:25):
great lesson. Now, he didn't fail. We didn't fail. And he he was able to stop and point out
exactly when it happened. And as a mentor, rather than coaching, say, you know, get get us to self
self-assess. And it was really, really powerful and really helpful. Now, again, we had a great
(15:47):
checky. We had the time in the simulator and that, you know, we were both open to this feedback.
And and it did it. So that was day one. And then the next day, you know, we went on and
passed. And that's that's one of the things that I love about pilots from what you've told me is
that you're all open to learning. You're all open to owning your mistakes. And when so when you make
(16:09):
a mistake, you own it, you learn from it, and then you don't repeat it. That's it. Whereas in other
industries, you know, they actively hide mistakes in the medical industry. And they're they used to
because they're encouraged by the insurance companies to hide their mistakes, unless they be
sued. Well, money, that's all money. But yeah, hopefully that industry is starting to learn
(16:33):
or change and act more like the aviation industry where there's no fault. It's more every,
every opportunity to learn is taken. So if there's a mistake made or whatever,
you act as an industry, you've told me you actively look for the lessons in it to share
that lessons with everyone else. Yes, there's no fault. Yeah. So and they look at the system
(16:55):
systemic issues rather than that that person individually. Yeah. So procedural issues and
system issues. Yeah. And because potentially if it happens once, it's it will happen again
and has happened previously. Yeah. So and there's a great book and I'm not sure if I've mentioned
it before Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed. And it I was I was recommended that book by
(17:22):
a fellow pilot, Rich, and he and it is it's a great book that Matthew gives great stories from
aviation. And he he compares it to the medical world. And he says and he quotes and we've also
said it in aviation, you know, amongst other pilots that pilots can't hide their accidents
(17:47):
where especially where lives are lost. And it can be hundreds of lives lost because of one accident,
whereas doctors kill people one at a time, which is a morbid way of looking at it. But
but reading through this book, I actually got quite angry at the some of the stories,
(18:07):
whether they were true or not, about how doctors had covered up mistakes. Yeah,
well, medical mistakes happen one person at a time. That's right. But how they'd covered them
up saying that the patient had an underlying problem or they already had this. And yeah,
I really recommend this book Black Box Thinking Black Box Thinking. It's an amazing book. It's
(18:30):
great. So coming back to expectations, the expectations that we have really determine
our experience in life. Yes. Yeah. So if you if you look at anything that causes you stress,
what sits under that stress is an expectation that's not being met. And I'll use an example
I love talking about in the customer experience workshops that we run. I you know, I'm a nerd,
(18:54):
I got a background in IT. I started before Windows, I think DOS and WordPerfect for DOS. So that's how
old I am. Before the mouse, Michelle. Oh, okay. I didn't know there was no mouse. Yeah, we had
orange writing on a computer monitor with a keyboard attached with one of those remember those old
telephones that had the curly cord. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So imagine one of the curly cords attached
(19:17):
into a monitor and orange writing on the screen. That's how old I am. Wow. Yes. Anyway, so then
Windows came out, and we rolled out Windows Microsoft Office. And I'm sure everyone listening
would have had this experience, you call the help desk and they go, have you turned it off then back
on. And I remember when I was working on the help desk, and we rolled out Windows and you quickly
(19:39):
learned that if there was ever a fault, you just turn the computer off and back on then the fault
goes away. Yeah, everything resets. And so I started to get a little bit stressed on the help desk,
because people would ring up and I'd go, have you turned it off then back on. You can hear it in my
voice, can't you? The Greek guy parachuting. Yes. Condescending. And it's the worst joke ever,
but I love it. I love it. You know me with bad jokes. Anyway, and then one day I was sitting there
(20:03):
and I was kind of studying psychology at the same time. And I realized, hold on a second,
I have an expectation that my customers should know that to fix most computer problems with
Windows, especially, is you turn it off then back on. And then the problem's fixed. And so
because I had that underlying expectation, people would bring me on the help desk. I go, help desk,
guy speaking. And they go, yeah, look, I've got this problem with my computer and blah, blah, blah.
(20:27):
And I'd go, well, have you turned it off then back on? And they go, of course I have. Do you
think I'm an idiot? I said, well, settle mate. I'm just trying to help you. And it wasn't a very good
experience for the customers. But then I realized I've got to remove the expectation that my
customers know what I know. Because if my customers knew what I knew. You didn't have a job. I wouldn't
have a job. They wouldn't be calling me. And I remember a beautiful phone call the following
(20:49):
week. This guy rang me up and we used to get this a lot in IT. They'd ring up and they go,
oh, hi, guy. I'm really stupid. I don't know how to get the computer to do this thing.
And I remember instinctively, because of that new mindset that I developed the week before,
I said, mate, you're not stupid. You've just never learned it. Today's the day you're going
to learn it. And I'm going to be the person teaching it to you. And he went, oh, thanks,
(21:10):
guys. That's right, mate. I have to learn it at some stage. Today's your day. And then my
experience on that phone call changed dramatically. His experience on the phone call changed
dramatically. And I realized that what was sitting underneath my, I guess, condescending
manner towards my customers early on was the expectation that they knew what I knew.
Yeah. And that happens in so many situations. I was talking to another student and he had a similar
(21:34):
one. So he worked in a local council and he worked doing what's called GIS mapping. So it's basically
mapping like Google Maps or Apple Maps or whatever. And so in the council area, they're always
doing different maps and modifying the maps based on any work. Anyway, I don't know it too well.
But he said, yeah, I had a similar experience. I said, can you tell me about it? He said, well,
(21:55):
yeah, I was sitting at my desk and one of my colleagues came up and asked me to do some work
about some mapping work. And I said, yeah, no problem. An hour later, he's standing at my desk
asking, has it been done? And I got really angry. And I told him, look, mate, seriously, I'll get it
to you when I can. And when we were doing the training and we're talking about underlying
expectations, he said, yeah, guy, I've realized that I was expecting him to know how long my work
(22:19):
took. And I didn't manage that expectation. So I said, what are you going to do in the future? He
said, well, next time somebody comes up to me to request some work, which they do all of the time,
I'm going to say, yeah, absolutely. I can do that for you. Look, just to let you know, it's going to
probably take about this many hours. I'll see if I can do it quicker. But I'll get back to you when
it's done. And he said the next time I saw him that all of his stress has gone away because he
(22:41):
didn't realize that he wasn't managing other people's expectations. And he had an expectation
that his customers knew exactly how long things took. I've been having this issue with my daughter.
She a teenager who knows everything. I wish I knew as much. All teenagers know everything, Michelle,
don't you know that? We knew it when we were teenagers. We were so much smarter than our
(23:06):
parents. God, look back at those times and to think that we were the most brilliant and they
were the most stupid. I can't believe, yeah, anyway, sorry. Well, her expectation is that I
will say yes without any information to her requests, like parties and going out and
sleepovers and things. And my expectation is that she will provide the information to me
(23:29):
when she asks. So that you feel confident and comfortable and safe to say yes.
So we're a little far apart on our expectations. So I actually sat down with her and went through,
I would love to say yes. I try to always say yes or a version of yes to you. However, this is what
(23:51):
I require. And I said, I know it's annoying to you that I keep asking questions, but, and I wrote
down a list of what I would need to know in order to say yes. So now she has that. She actually put
it as a note on her phone. So when she texts me, she texts me the answers already. So it's great.
(24:11):
It's brilliant. That is good. That's very good. We'll see you managed your expectations. You
managed her expectations. Oh, but it took a while to get to have the conversation. Otherwise we
were both frustrated. Yeah. Oh, that's just natural. Mothers and daughters and fathers and sons
and fathers and daughters. And yeah, when they're in their teenage years, they know more than us.
(24:31):
And we knew more than our parents. Yeah. But we did find out a couple of weeks ago. Why? Oh yes.
This is fascinating. Yeah. I think you should tell it because we tell it better than I do.
Yeah. So the theory goes that when we become teenagers, our instinct is to not listen to our
parents anymore, to actually distance ourselves from our parents. And the theory, the biological
(24:58):
theory is this, that when you become a teenager, you are actually fertile. Your body is getting
ready to produce offspring. And so one of the things your body does is it tells you to move away
from your parents, move away from your family, move away from that community. Because biologically,
we should be going to a different village to go on and find a mate and have offspring.
(25:20):
Having offspring in the same village is not a good thing for the species. No. And so the theory
goes that when you become a teenager, your biology is telling you to stop listening to your parents,
ignore everything that they're saying, move away from them, go to another village, find a mate and
reproduce the species. And that's if true. And it sounds kind of, it resonates with me that, yeah,
(25:41):
every teenager goes through this. We stop listening to our parents. We know better.
There's now a biological understanding of, or possible theory as to why that happens. They're
being told by their biology, leave where you are now. So distance yourself from.
Yeah. It doesn't make it easier though.
No. But it gives us a reason. It gives us, with understanding comes acceptance. Yeah. Because if
(26:07):
we're expecting our teenagers to listen to us, but their body is telling them not to,
our expectation is wrong. Which is why then your friend group as parents and who you,
who you tend to gather with is very important because. Especially during the teenage years.
Yeah. Whilst, whilst they're not listening to you, they may be listening to one of your friends who's
(26:31):
saying exactly the same thing, but it's not you. And that's why we, we actively seek out people
in our community, in our, in our beautiful people in our network, our, our very close friends. And,
and we want the children to be around them because of the influence that they'll have on them. We,
we, we, we're conscious on this, aren't we? Yeah. Yeah. Because your children don't want to listen
(26:54):
to you, but they will listen to somebody else. And I'm, I'm still at a point where my beautiful
little 11 year old son wants to listen to me and I love it. I love it. He actually asks me to have
chats about what we teach and I love it. I love it. Cause he's just got this thirst to learn from me
at the moment. Is it 12 that they start, stop listening? 13, 12, 13, 14. And that's where you
(27:18):
need to provide them with other adults, sources of information, sources of information, because
they will, they will listen to a sports coach. They'll listen to a, you know, an adult figure,
who they respect. A cool dad. Yeah. A cool friend who doesn't have to make them eat their vegetables.
And so they're not always frustrated by it. And yeah, so I'm hoping I don't experience that,
(27:43):
but yeah, I'm ready for it. When he doesn't want to listen to me anymore, I'm going to say, hey,
look, here's some amazing people. Yeah. If you ever want to talk, I'm always here,
but here's some other people that you can, you can talk to.
Expectations, it's saying, acknowledging that expectations are the underlying cause of a lot
of disappointment, anxiety, uh, depression, because it's in the future or in the past,
(28:07):
not actually living in the present, but how like it's good knowing this, but then actually
change it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think my theory is that we should become,
aware of, and I want to say conversant with, we should be talking to our expectations. I know
this sounds a bit weird, but curious, curious with our expectations. So every time you feel stress,
(28:33):
just stop and think what is the expectation that is not being met, that's sitting underneath and
become friends with the expectations that you have. And so I think that's the way to do it.
And, and become friends with them, become friends with your expectations because we all have them.
We have expectations about how our partners should behave, how our boss should communicate to us,
(28:58):
how our customer should engage with us, how children should do that. Yeah, we should on
everything. But if you can change your relationship with your expectations and see them just as
entities that you've created that are also malleable, that you can change, that you can
adjust them. They are not laws. They're not a hundred percent truths. They're not things that you
(29:21):
should stand by like, like a policeman stands by the law or the judge stands by the legislation.
You, you are able to rewrite them. And when you rewrite them or, and adjust them for your own
health, mental health and success, then, then you're more in control of your life.
Well, getting curious with it, some of the expectations are ridiculous. Like if you actually
(29:44):
look at them, that I'm the traffic guard. Yeah. Or that, that don't people know who I am as I walk
into a room that nobody knows me. You know, we saw that the other day. That's right.
That it's the actual underlying expectations. Generally I am generalizing here. Ah, ridiculous,
(30:06):
stupid, like idealized, idealization. I can't speak. Idealization. Ideation. Ideation. There
we go. Uh, I put too many. Sorry, we're throwing syllables just to create our own words. So
then people do that. It is, it's ridiculous. And if they, it was spelt out and you'd be like, no.
(30:28):
Ideation, idealization, ideas. Anyway. Yeah. But no, but the, that expectation, if it was spelt out,
the expectations you'd think, no, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. If they were written
down in black and white in front of you, what your expectations were, because quite often we,
we hide them behind stupid thoughts. So for example, Sydney traffic is a nightmare.
(30:50):
What sits underneath that is I should be able to get in my car and drive wherever I want,
whenever I want and have no other traffic. Yeah. Yes. There is no traffic. So Sydney
traffic is a nightmare. It looks like a logical statement, doesn't it? Yeah. It looks very logical
and everyone could sit around having a glass of wine and agree to that. You can have a conversation
with your friends. Oh, isn't Sydney traffic a nightmare and your friends before the M4 was
(31:13):
around. Yeah. And so, and you're all your friends would go, yeah, isn't it all those cars, but you're
all deluding yourself because what sits underneath the statement that Sydney traffic is a nightmare.
And it's so much better now. Thank you to those tunnels that we've just had built in Sydney. Well
done government for doing some infrastructure that actually works. But, um, sorry, but what's
it's underneath that expectation or that, that statement Sydney traffic is a nightmare isn't,
(31:36):
it's the most absurd, ridiculous expectation that you should be able to get in your car
whenever you want and drive wherever you want without any other cars. Yes. Oh, it is absurd.
Just get in your car earlier. Give yourself some contingencies and some buffer, you know,
allow an extra 20 minutes or half an hour. And in that half an hour, listen to a podcast like
(31:58):
captain and the clown and fill your brain full of knowledge and laugh at the idiot, the clown on
the other end of the, the microphone, because our expectations sit underneath everything and it
creates the experience that we have in life. Yeah. Sounds easy. Hey,
(32:19):
we teach it and yet we catch ourselves. But here's the beautiful thing, right? Because we teach it,
we're aware of it, which makes us able to catch it more often than most people. And that's not
bragging. That's I guess, just admitting reality that because we are conscious of it,
we're beating my head against the wall enough times by, by teaching it, uh, you know, and it's
(32:41):
every single time I teach it's like, Oh, of course, of course, of course, yes, because we're human.
Yeah. Yeah. But the people who don't teach this or who haven't learned it yet, learned, learned,
learned it yet. We'll, we'll use the UK learnt, um, because the people who haven't learned it yet,
you can't expect them to understand where their stress is coming from and who gets taught this
(33:04):
stuff at school. Yeah, no one, no one, no one. That was a fun podcast. I expected it to go well
and it did. Otherwise I'd be in a funk right now. Just like the other day where all my expectations
didn't happen, but still, yeah, it's, it's an interesting concept. Yeah. Bose, thank you for, uh,
the headphones that we've got now, but we paid for them. How about some sponsorship? Bollinger,
(33:27):
like we've, we've enjoyed a few of you over the years, but uh, Lint, come on, seriously,
we're waiting. We're patient. Our expectation is that people will find us and just give us
money and goods. Yeah. And yeah, we maybe have to change our expectation and start doing the
necessary marketing for the volunteer to want to sponsor us. Michelle. All right. That was fun.
(33:51):
Bye guy. Bye. Well, that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. Lady captain.
Yeah. And who's going to listen to this? Maybe I'm numb. Thanks mom.
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