September 27, 2023 • 28 mins
Ever thought about text message marketing for your law firm? This episode takes you into the heart of this powerful communication tool with our guest, Alex Levin, Co-Founder and CEO of Regal.io. Alex is an expert in B2C technology and he shares enlightening insights into how law firms can leverage text message marketing to foster meaningful customer relationships.
In this episode, we cover key strategies for gaining contact permissions and customizing messages with data. We also delve into the critical role of AI bots in maintaining customer engagement. We also discuss the don'ts like why cold-calling or cold-texting can backfire and the importance of respecting customer contact boundaries. With Alex's expertise, you'll discover how to successfully navigate the complexities of SMS marketing and build trust with your clients.
Learn more about how Regal can help by visiting www.regal.io
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are talking about
one of the more emergingmarketing strategies out there
right now.
It's been around for a coupleof years, more and more
(01:14):
businesses are using it and thatis text message marketing.
A lot of you may already getsome text message marketing sort
of messages in your phone, anda lot of you likely will, as
election season Gets a lotcloser.
As we discussed in last week'sepisode, a lot of candidates are
using that now.
(01:35):
But your firm really does have abig opportunity to utilize text
messaging in yourcommunications and your
marketing, and our goal thisweek is to kind of enlighten you
and show you how you can dothat.
And so my guest this week issomeone who helps businesses
with text message marketing andother aspects of their marketing
(01:56):
, and that is the co-founder andCEO of Regal IO.
That is Alex Levin.
Thanks for joining us this week.
Thank you for having me.
So, yeah, right off the bat,tell us a little bit about
yourself, your background andwhat Regal IO does.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Sure.
So my background is mostlyworking for B2C technology
companies that have moved onlineand I've run marketing and
growth teams in the past, sodefinitely have quite a bit of
experience at scale withdifferent marketing channels,
including SMS.
So, excited to talk about that,regal is something that came
out of.
(02:30):
Our experiences wereparticularly in more considered
services things like legalservices, health care insurance,
lending, local services.
We found that as they digitized, it was critical not just to
have one way marketing channelswhere you were telling people
what you wanted them to hear,but actually engage with
(02:52):
customers in a conversation, andso there wasn't really a good
tech stack to support that sortof interaction at enormous scale
.
So we built Regal aroundsupporting those companies with
technology to engage customersin channels like SMS, phone,
email and then give thatcompany's agents or reps the
(03:15):
tools they need to treatmillions and millions of
customers like one in a million.
Right, we know who he wants tobe At the other end of a phone
call.
It's a spam where the personfrom the company has no idea who
you are and it's just a waitingtime.
On the other hand, if you can,in the right moment, show up
there for the customer and go, Iunderstand the problem that you
(03:36):
have and I'm gonna help you.
That's very valuable and sowith technology, that becomes
possible.
And today we serve bothmid-market and enterprise brands
, from AAA and insurance, sopaiin lending, angie's List in
local services, roman or Ford inhealth care, sort of across the
(03:57):
spectrum.
And actually in legal we servea lot of firms that are getting
larger at this point and havefigured out how to leverage
their digital presence toincrease the number of potential
customers they have and useonline to find better ways of
(04:17):
engaging with those customers.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and you know, I know, you know I've joked about
this show, but it's not.
It's not really a joke and theywill admit this to legal pretty
slow to adopt a lot of thenewer technologies and I think
text messaging is one of them.
You know, I only know of acouple of firms that do this.
You know, for a lot of years itwas direct mail, you know, and
(04:39):
a lot of firms still do that,especially in the personal
injury, criminal defense space.
Anytime you get a trafficticket, you know you can just
expect like a dozen differentyou know envelopes to show up in
your mailbox.
Then email came along.
More and more people we'reseeing are utilizing email a lot
more now, which is great.
But now text messaging iscoming up.
(05:00):
So you know from your, fromwhere you're sitting.
You know why is text messagingsuch a great tool that firms can
use for their communication intheir marketing.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, I'll just start by just take a step back.
I don't think that law firmsare slow to adopt technology.
As an example, there's aproduct called Westlaw, which
Thompson murders now owns, whichwas the sort of very early
incarnation of taking everylegal case that exists that used
to be in a library, in a book,and putting it online, and it
(05:34):
used to be a closed, you knowsystem and now it's more of an
open system but putting onlineand making available to lawyers
so they could have the correctcitation that every law firm in
the world has a Westlaw term.
And so law firms are actuallyvery early, similar to financial
firms on that side from from adata perspective, having
technology that change theirinternal workflows.
And when you look at thecomplexity of workflows around
(05:56):
contracts and you know what youneed to do, appliance billing
actually adopted a lot oftechnology.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So I wouldn't say that it's a bear slowed it up.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Technology I think a lot of law firms in my
experience, given theirbackground, are nervous about
the way in which theycommunicate with clients,
especially when it's written.
They're nervous about anythingthat is discoverable.
They're nervous about recordinga conversation.
They're nervous about you knowwhat the laws are on how you're
going to get to somebody.
(06:24):
So I think that's perfectlyfair and particularly you know,
I think when we talk to lawfirms, you know they have folks
who are very good at theinternal technology, but they
may not have a person who worksfor law firm who's comfortable
using some of these newmarketing channels.
So I think it's worth you knowtalking through even more than
SMS, a little bit like how tothink about moving into using
(06:46):
all these marketing channels, ifthat's okay, and then I'm happy
to be in this?
Yeah, absolutely.
So maybe take a step back.
You know, if you are running alaw firm today, you are a
marketer, and it's a weird thingto think about.
You didn't go to school to be amarketer.
You want to be a marketer, buteffectively you will have to be
a marketer Right?
You've got to go out there andconvince people to buy your
services.
(07:07):
If you're only relying on personto person sales, you're missing
a trick.
You may be great at that, butyou're missing something.
So the advantage of marketingis that you can make it feel to
your customers or prospectivecustomers like you are the
default institutional providerin your space.
What I mean is if that personthat you're targeting you think
is your ideal customer leavetheir moment and see your
(07:29):
billboard and they see a directmail and they, when they Google,
they see your app, they go toFacebook, they see your app, you
call them and you're talking.
All of a sudden they go.
Oh, my goodness, I've seen Xlaw firm seven times in the last
two days.
They must be the leader in thisspace.
Now you don't have to tell meyou only were marketing in that
two block area because you knewthose were your exact customers.
(07:50):
We were only marketing that onesegment because you knew they
were ideal customer.
But my point is it's not aboutgoing and doing national
advertising and it's not aboutdoing big tea blitzes.
It's about figuring out whoyour customer is and finding
ways to hit them six, seven,eight times, because that's how
you're going to get theminterested in you, your, firm,
(08:10):
so that when you do have that,conversation to go oh, I know
who you are.
So the parallel I sometimes drawis you know those previous the
benches that real estate folksalways take out their picture on
.
It's actually not a crazystrategy, right?
Because all of a suddeneverybody who goes by the name
goes oh, I know that, you knowso, and so you know Sally Smith
is the right person in this areafor me.
(08:31):
So think about the holisticstrategy where you're doing
multiple channels at once.
I think you know to your point.
People have been sort of nervousabout SMS, I think, because it
was something that was a littlebit regulated than email.
It was something that felt alittle bit more personal email.
(08:51):
But on the other side, Iactually think both of those
things are advantages in SMS,because it's more regulated,
means there's less chat, there'sless junk out there.
So the engagement rate is muchhigher because it feels more
personal.
As long as you're using itcorrectly, you're able to get to
, you know, get people to engagewith you in a much more
personal way than with email.
(09:12):
On average, you know you sendan email to somebody a marketing
email might be a 2% or 3% clickrate.
Send a text message to somebodyit's going to be a 10% or 15%
click rate, so it's much higherengaging channel.
We'll talk, you know, as we getinto it, about sort of the
strategies and how to make sureyou do it correctly, but at a
high level.
It's not a bad thing that it'sregulated and personal.
(09:34):
Those are good things.
You just have to know how touse the channel correctly.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's one of thethings that's kind of a kind of
a drawback almost with, maybe,direct mail or email is you
could just get you know anyaddress or any email and
ultimately, like you can end upgetting penalized for it, you
know, with spamming and all ofthat.
(10:00):
Whereas it's a lot, I thinkit's a lot more difficult to get
phone numbers and have peopleeven you know opt into that sort
of thing.
But also the other thing aboutit that I that I like about the
text message is your phonenumber is like the one thing
that you typically don't changeas often.
Right, people move to differentaddresses a lot.
(10:22):
They change their emails a lot.
A lot of people don't changetheir phone number nearly as
much, and so that becomes justan even more valuable piece of
marketing data if you can getthat from a lead.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, so let's start there.
So you know, I'm not a hugeproponent of cold calling or
cold texting.
Yeah, there are ways to do it.
I'm not going to get into itbecause I just think it's not
the right way to engage withpeople.
What I think is very powerfulis if you have people engaging
with your brand, ask for theirphone number and there's a lot
(10:56):
of different ways to do it.
You know and sort of you'veseen these things that pop over
a site and you know say you know, please give us your phone
number so you can talk to whombeing, or please give us your
phone number.
If it's in retail or at thiscouncil, there might have to be
a give get of some kind.
But I do recommend, high in thefunnel you know in your digital
experience getting your phonenumber.
Once you have that phone number, as you're getting it, make
(11:17):
sure that your terms are settingup for success.
What I mean by that isexplicitly tell the customer
that you're going to be using anATDS and automated telephonic
system to send them textmessages, calls, pre-reported
voicemail.
Those are three differentchannels in the United States
and you technically have to askfor permission for all of them.
(11:37):
All that means is you need asentence that says you know you
give us permission basically touse an automated telephone
dialing system to contact youvia all text messages and
pre-reported voicemail.
Usually we suggest having acheckbox so the person actively
checks it and then hits next.
There are some situations inwhich that's not necessary, but
(11:59):
that's a whole differentconversation.
Let's assume you now havepermission from this person.
Now, if their phone number yourpermission to engage with them
you know, now you need sometools.
So their sort of certainly isthe ability to like manually
text somebody for your phone.
But that's not a scalablestrategy.
So I highly recommend getting aproduct like Griegel that
(12:21):
allows you to send high-volumeoutbound SMS from a long number,
not a short code.
So you don't want to be sendingtext messages from short codes
anymore because people know thatit's spam.
Right, you want a long number.
You want a system that is goingto allow you to customize the
messages based on what you knowabout the customer.
Hi, first name this is lawyername.
(12:41):
I see you're living in, youknow city and you're interested
in product.
Let's pat on D.
Right, you can do that in ahuge scale, but you need to have
a product that can allow you tocustomize that.
And then you know that's oneway.
You also want the same productto have the ability to do two at
many of the person engages.
(13:02):
You want some way to respond,and I think that's quite hard to
find products that do both.
Griegel does.
And then the last thing is youwant a product that ideally has
an AI bottom.
So great If you're there torespond, wonderful.
But if you start setting upthese programs, somebody
responds and you're on vacationfor two days.
Now that customer isdisappointed.
So having an AI bot allows youto make sure you're engaging the
(13:25):
person at night, on weekends,when you're away, when you're
busy, and you know, move themthrough the funnel and then make
sure that they're not leftalone.
So again, griegel has that aswell.
It's very rare.
I don't think I know noproducts that have all three the
marketing SMS, the two SMS andan AI bot all together.
So you know that makes it avery useful package for people.
Yeah, once you're, you're sortof doing all that.
(13:49):
Usually what I suggest the goalto be is find the handraisers
and qualify them, and if youhave a high enough value product
that you're selling, you maywant the handraisers to be going
directly to a human beingwhether it's you or somebody
else on the team to talk.
If it's not a high enough valueproduct, maybe the first step
is when you know the handraiserthat's interested, you send them
(14:09):
a tech message saying what'syour annual income or do you?
You know, if it's mass tortlike, do you have a?
You know, did you live in thisarea between this date and that
date?
So qualify them and then passthem to a human so you can do a
lot in an automated way.
You can even do all theseautomated things to get them
actually call you, or you canautomatically schedule a call to
(14:31):
them and get them on the linebefore you're wasting any human
time.
So depends on the scale thatyou're operating, but you can
get very efficient when it comesto actual campaigns.
Usually we suggest a few.
So when you first get the lead,speed to lead is very important
and you need to engage thatperson right away.
Be the first firm that engagesthem in these sort of services.
(14:52):
You know, assume that person isgoing looking at two or three
lawyers, but where's the firstto get to them the largest
majority of the time it's acrazy thing, but the signal to
that customer that you're moreinterested and they are tend to
stop engaging as future peopletry to reach out to them.
A regal, for instance.
We even have a deal with thecell phone carriers to brand
(15:14):
calls on cell phones so thatwhen you're calling them they
know it's you and they answeredthem much higher rate.
So another value but now youknow you're, you're sort of
doing that upfront, trying toengage them.
Other sorts of campaigns wehighly recommend are two things.
One, re-engagement so if thatperson who you think is a good
prospect goes away but yoursystem sees they click on your
(15:37):
website or they click on anemail or they are doing
something that shows you youthink they're engaged again, you
know have a text message or acall that goes out in that
second.
So you need systems that arehooked into your website, your
email marketing, to make surethat you know when they're
showing signs of engagement toreach out again.
And then the last campaign is anurture campaign.
(15:57):
So you know you should besetting up you know three, six,
12 months of drips of textmessages and emails even that
try to keep the personinterested.
Show them your areas ofexpertise, highlight things that
as a firm you're doing.
Explain the value propositiondue to a long period of time,
particularly for emotionaldecisions like education or
(16:20):
certain legal services.
It's not a decision that'sgoing to be made overnight.
It's something where you want asteady drip of information to
that customer to slowly win themover.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, so you know one of the things, one of the
things that I hear a lot,especially as it relates to like
email and even like socialmedia posts, which is odd the a
lot of a lot of lawyers are veryconcerned about annoying their
audience, right?
So when we talk about you knowmaybe some right and wrong ways
to use text messaging, I mean,how would you address that
(16:52):
concern where it's like I don'twant to you know, I don't want
to be too intrusive, I don'twant to annoy you know my leads
by texting them.
You know, like, how do youaddress something like that?
So a couple things.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So there's the legal side of it, which is you have to
get opted and if the personwants to stop, you have to opt
them out, and you need torespect that and there are
certain rules that you cannotviolate.
Then there's customerpreference.
The funny thing is actually,when you do interviews with
customers, they prefer textmessage from brands that they
want to engage with.
(17:25):
So, as I say, I'm not talkingabout cold calling, cold SMS.
Different world don't want toengage on that.
But if you're doing somethingwith somebody who's an
interested prospect, this issomething that they prefer, as
long as you're demonstratingthat it's actually a channel
that they can use to reach outto.
Now if you open up an SMSconversation with them and they
(17:46):
respond and you never respondback, that's a black eye, right.
If they give you a phone numberand you're just sending them,
you know they would clearly wereinterested in.
You know services around.
You know divorce and you'reconstantly telling them about.
You know child protectiveservices and again, you've lost
them.
But people like and expect SMSof the channel.
(18:08):
So that's not the issue, it'sjust how you use it.
I think the last piece is youknow, as a firm, figuring out
what is the cadence on whichcustomers want to hear from you,
and it depends by product.
So you know, retail is verywell established at this point
where you have lots and lots ofskews, it's probably okay, if
(18:28):
it's a brand that they like, tobe sending pretty regular text
messages with different skews.
That might be interesting.
You know different products andthey'd be interesting in the
person, especially if there'sdiscount.
So if you're a big fan ofPatagonia and Patagonia sends
you a text message about theproduct you're looking at with
you know special offers, you'regoing to be very excited and
that could be every week, Ithink.
On the you know other spectrum,you know, if you're a dentist,
(18:52):
we're sending you text messagesevery week.
You would probably say this isannoying, right?
All you want from your dentistis to make sure that every six
months that you're.
You know they're engaging withyou to align you to get that
appointment schedule.
You need your teeth cleanedevery six months, so you know
figure out for your businesswhat the right cadence is and
you can also test into it.
(19:12):
So as you start sending textmessages, if you watch the
unsubscribe rate, the rate ofpeople saying stop, and it goes
over 1% for a text message, itprobably assigns a bad text.
You know, if over time you'reyou're seeing that you know the
click rate on links you'reputting in, it is sub, we call
it 10%, probably a bad text.
And so it's iterative, you canlearn.
Obviously, like you can'tre-subscribe those people,
(19:35):
you've lost them.
But for future customers youcan always do better.
So you know, I think like thelast idea I'd leave you with is
you know, for customers theyhave choice, so you're not doing
anything that they can't getout of.
So if you're trying to engagewith a customer that you think
is a great prospect on thecadence, that you think is
(19:56):
respectful, and they don't wantto participate, they're just
going to write back stop andthey're out of it.
So it's not really thatproblematic.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
And you talk about building thecadence and everything like
that.
I mean, I think, even beyondmarketing, especially in the
legal space, for me I thinkthere's a really big opportunity
for law firms to really improvetheir customer service, cause,
like one of the biggest knocksthat I hear a lot and I've even
(20:25):
experienced this myself is thatlaw firms just do a really bad
job of staying in touch andkeeping people updated, even on
their case.
And so for me and I don't knowif you've seen this, but to me I
think you set up, you have thistext messaging system a great
and easy thing to do is to justsend some regular update text
(20:47):
about how people's cases aregoing.
And that's not really.
It's kind of a marketing thing,but it's not.
It's more of a customer servicething, cause they've already
signed, they're already a client.
But what other ways are youseeing businesses kind of
utilize text, even beyond somevarious marketing communications
?
Yeah, so there's a couple ofcritical distinctions.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
First, legally there's a distinction between
what are called transactionalmessages and solicitation or
marketing messages.
If all you're doing is sayingyou have an appointment tomorrow
, you don't need to be opt inyou can just send it, the person
can unsubscribe from it, butyou're not allowed to do
marketing in that message.
If you're soliciting, meaninglike you're asking them to do
(21:30):
something, asking them to paysome money, then there's
different rules.
I'd say a lot of firms areunderutilizing just the sort of
transactional reminder messages,and that's a real shame because
I do think they can be veryhelpful to customers.
Hey, you have an appointmenttomorrow.
Hey, your court case moved tothe next step.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And it's not that much work Again.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
system like it goes, very easily handles the messages
.
Because we allow firms toconnect to us all their data
sources on what's happening, wecan automate the text messages,
so nobody needs to think aboutit.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But you know.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'll give you an example in another industry,
where you can sort ofpersonalize it a little bit.
So instead of just sending your, packages on the way we have
some companies that will say hi,this is Julia.
I spoke to you last week.
I see your packages.
You know, just left ourwarehouse and I'm watching it
for you.
Really excited for you to getthis, no that was an automated
text message, that wastransactional those sales but it
(22:27):
felt much more personal becauseI made sure that it came from
the last person I talked with.
You know, because we use thatvariable, and it felt like I
could respond to it, maybe evensuch that I go thanks, julia,
really wanna buy this next thing, can you chat with me about it?
Or I wanna engage on anotherproject.
So, even with the sort of moretransactional, be smart about
(22:48):
how you're doing it.
I would say, on the to yourpoint on solicitation, there's a
lot of different key momentsthrough that customer's journey.
You know there's, you know, thenew customer onboarding,
there's retention, there'supsell, cross-sell, win back.
So outside of even the case thatyou're talking about, there's a
lot of different things in sortof something like legal, I
(23:10):
think it's fewer and far between, let's say it's hopefully you
don't have the need for legalservices all the time, but I
still think people appreciatethe kind gesture, maybe once a
year, somebody they work withreaching out and sending a
Christmas gift, sending a nicetext message.
(23:31):
So that's very common inservice industries like legal,
where you take your top 50customers and you send them a
gift.
You take the next 50 and yousend them a nice random note.
You take the next 50 or maybethe next 5,000 and you send them
all a nice text message with animage.
So it's something that canagain just expand your reach.
(23:52):
So, whatever you're doing toservice your top 50 customers,
how do you replicate that usingtechnology across your top 5,000
so that they all feel thatpersonal touch?
and don't feel left out.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, and I think for me, I think, the biggest thing
is, you know, maybe some of theyounger Gen Xers, most of the
millennials, definitely Gen Z,that's just how we've been
conditioned to communicate.
You know we communicate morevia text than we do via phone
call or even email, and so youknow to your point, you know,
(24:30):
being able to have that not justas a convenience factor but to
feel like we're making more of aconnection with that business
and streamlining that a lot more, I think really does make it
more valuable.
And I know, just speaking frommy own personal experience, like
that's just how I would preferto hear from someone like I may
not be available all the time totake a phone call or, you know,
(24:53):
interrupt what I'm doing totake a phone call, but if I can
see a text real quick, perfect,and you know, that's all I'm
gonna say.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Part of the advantage of Regal is that our system
allows texting calls from thesame number.
So historically one of thechallenges with the text message
marketing is that again, it wasonly one way, and even if you
do two way, you still can't getthem on the phone because it's
just a texting system.
Well, we've got the ability todo one way messaging, two way
messaging the AI and phone allfrom the same system.
(25:20):
So you can say in your textmessage hey, here's the update,
you know, call me whenever youhave a chance.
Or we even have automationwhere we will say hey, you know,
right back, yes, and I'll callyou right.
So, based off of the customerresponding to a text message
change, we can sort of make surethat somebody's calling them
back.
So those are just againopportunities to leverage
(25:43):
technology to treat somebodybetter at more scale.
When it was just a smallpractice and you had your
shingle out and you know therewere two lawyers, you could give
that level of care to yourclients.
As you grow and get larger,you're gonna need support,
you're gonna need technology tobe able to offer that same level
of service to more clients, andthat's perfectly okay.
(26:03):
Again, you can wow clients veryeasily now using these tools.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So great transition there.
Let people know a little bitmore about how to learn more
about all the things that Regaldoes and where they can go.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, so please go to regalio.
You can email me at hello.
At regalio we serve a lot oflaw firms across different sorts
of practices.
I think you know if you're oneor two lawyers there are
probably simpler tools out there.
If you email me I'd be happy torecommend them.
But as your, you know, as yoursort of maturity grows on the
marketing, we can really helphave a lot of impact from moving
(26:43):
firms from very basicone-on-one type SMS usage to
very sophisticated, personalized, customized, segment-based and
journey-based messaging, and youknow it has an enormous impact
on people's business at scale.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Love it.
I just a lot of good stuffthere.
I love all the insight that youshared and, just you know, try
just kind of shining the lighton just how much opportunity
really is there for text messagemarketing.
One final question for you,though, before we wrap up If you
had one final piece of advicefor our listeners, what would it
be?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean go back to the point I made at the
beginning.
Everybody is a marketer.
You know I think you know Italked to so many folks who sort
of go on really great, you knowX, you know peaks, maybe it's
just sales or they're very goodat direct mail or very good at
whatever, but they're missingthe opportunity to expand to
more channels.
And it takes time, I understand, but I definitely think it's
(27:41):
worth the investment to sit down, figure out exactly those
you're right customer and figureout how you reach that customer
across different channels,because it is going to have a
massive impact on your business.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Just.
You know, understanding thatclient's journey, you know
through their entire experiencewith your firm, you know, and
just the different tools thatyou can use to help them out
really does make all thedifference.
And so, alex, thanks so muchfor joining us.
A lot of great stuff, you know,that you shared with us and
hope you guys check out Regaland see if there's an
(28:14):
opportunity there for you tostart using more text messaging
in your communications, whetherit's marketing or even just case
updates along the way.
Whatever it is, and that'sgoing to do it for us this week,
please leave your rating andreview If you have not done so
yet.
It really does help the showout and that's it, alex.
Thanks so much for joining us,thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom.
Slash center stage.
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight
Branding.
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(00:22):
designed to help you increaseyour referrals and attract the
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Visit spotlightbrandingcomslash pod to learn more.
That's spotlightbrandingcomslash pod.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are talking about
one of the more emergingmarketing strategies out there
right now.
It's been around for a coupleof years, more and more
(01:14):
businesses are using it and thatis text message marketing.
A lot of you may already getsome text message marketing sort
of messages in your phone, anda lot of you likely will, as
election season Gets a lotcloser.
As we discussed in last week'sepisode, a lot of candidates are
using that now.
(01:35):
But your firm really does have abig opportunity to utilize text
messaging in yourcommunications and your
marketing, and our goal thisweek is to kind of enlighten you
and show you how you can dothat.
And so my guest this week issomeone who helps businesses
with text message marketing andother aspects of their marketing
(01:56):
, and that is the co-founder andCEO of Regal IO.
That is Alex Levin.
Thanks for joining us this week.
Thank you for having me.
So, yeah, right off the bat,tell us a little bit about
yourself, your background andwhat Regal IO does.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Sure.
So my background is mostlyworking for B2C technology
companies that have moved onlineand I've run marketing and
growth teams in the past, sodefinitely have quite a bit of
experience at scale withdifferent marketing channels,
including SMS.
So, excited to talk about that,regal is something that came
out of.
(02:30):
Our experiences wereparticularly in more considered
services things like legalservices, health care insurance,
lending, local services.
We found that as they digitized, it was critical not just to
have one way marketing channelswhere you were telling people
what you wanted them to hear,but actually engage with
(02:52):
customers in a conversation, andso there wasn't really a good
tech stack to support that sortof interaction at enormous scale
.
So we built Regal aroundsupporting those companies with
technology to engage customersin channels like SMS, phone,
email and then give thatcompany's agents or reps the
(03:15):
tools they need to treatmillions and millions of
customers like one in a million.
Right, we know who he wants tobe At the other end of a phone
call.
It's a spam where the personfrom the company has no idea who
you are and it's just a waitingtime.
On the other hand, if you can,in the right moment, show up
there for the customer and go, Iunderstand the problem that you
(03:36):
have and I'm gonna help you.
That's very valuable and sowith technology, that becomes
possible.
And today we serve bothmid-market and enterprise brands
, from AAA and insurance, sopaiin lending, angie's List in
local services, roman or Ford inhealth care, sort of across the
(03:57):
spectrum.
And actually in legal we servea lot of firms that are getting
larger at this point and havefigured out how to leverage
their digital presence toincrease the number of potential
customers they have and useonline to find better ways of
(04:17):
engaging with those customers.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and you know, I know, you know I've joked about
this show, but it's not.
It's not really a joke and theywill admit this to legal pretty
slow to adopt a lot of thenewer technologies and I think
text messaging is one of them.
You know, I only know of acouple of firms that do this.
You know, for a lot of years itwas direct mail, you know, and
(04:39):
a lot of firms still do that,especially in the personal
injury, criminal defense space.
Anytime you get a trafficticket, you know you can just
expect like a dozen differentyou know envelopes to show up in
your mailbox.
Then email came along.
More and more people we'reseeing are utilizing email a lot
more now, which is great.
But now text messaging iscoming up.
(05:00):
So you know from your, fromwhere you're sitting.
You know why is text messagingsuch a great tool that firms can
use for their communication intheir marketing.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, I'll just start by just take a step back.
I don't think that law firmsare slow to adopt technology.
As an example, there's aproduct called Westlaw, which
Thompson murders now owns, whichwas the sort of very early
incarnation of taking everylegal case that exists that used
to be in a library, in a book,and putting it online, and it
(05:34):
used to be a closed, you knowsystem and now it's more of an
open system but putting onlineand making available to lawyers
so they could have the correctcitation that every law firm in
the world has a Westlaw term.
And so law firms are actuallyvery early, similar to financial
firms on that side from from adata perspective, having
technology that change theirinternal workflows.
And when you look at thecomplexity of workflows around
(05:56):
contracts and you know what youneed to do, appliance billing
actually adopted a lot oftechnology.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
So I wouldn't say that it's a bear slowed it up.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Technology I think a lot of law firms in my
experience, given theirbackground, are nervous about
the way in which theycommunicate with clients,
especially when it's written.
They're nervous about anythingthat is discoverable.
They're nervous about recordinga conversation.
They're nervous about you knowwhat the laws are on how you're
going to get to somebody.
(06:24):
So I think that's perfectlyfair and particularly you know,
I think when we talk to lawfirms, you know they have folks
who are very good at theinternal technology, but they
may not have a person who worksfor law firm who's comfortable
using some of these newmarketing channels.
So I think it's worth you knowtalking through even more than
SMS, a little bit like how tothink about moving into using
(06:46):
all these marketing channels, ifthat's okay, and then I'm happy
to be in this?
Yeah, absolutely.
So maybe take a step back.
You know, if you are running alaw firm today, you are a
marketer, and it's a weird thingto think about.
You didn't go to school to be amarketer.
You want to be a marketer, buteffectively you will have to be
a marketer Right?
You've got to go out there andconvince people to buy your
services.
(07:07):
If you're only relying on personto person sales, you're missing
a trick.
You may be great at that, butyou're missing something.
So the advantage of marketingis that you can make it feel to
your customers or prospectivecustomers like you are the
default institutional providerin your space.
What I mean is if that personthat you're targeting you think
is your ideal customer leavetheir moment and see your
(07:29):
billboard and they see a directmail and they, when they Google,
they see your app, they go toFacebook, they see your app, you
call them and you're talking.
All of a sudden they go.
Oh, my goodness, I've seen Xlaw firm seven times in the last
two days.
They must be the leader in thisspace.
Now you don't have to tell meyou only were marketing in that
two block area because you knewthose were your exact customers.
(07:50):
We were only marketing that onesegment because you knew they
were ideal customer.
But my point is it's not aboutgoing and doing national
advertising and it's not aboutdoing big tea blitzes.
It's about figuring out whoyour customer is and finding
ways to hit them six, seven,eight times, because that's how
you're going to get theminterested in you, your, firm,
(08:10):
so that when you do have that,conversation to go oh, I know
who you are.
So the parallel I sometimes drawis you know those previous the
benches that real estate folksalways take out their picture on
.
It's actually not a crazystrategy, right?
Because all of a suddeneverybody who goes by the name
goes oh, I know that, you knowso, and so you know Sally Smith
is the right person in this areafor me.
(08:31):
So think about the holisticstrategy where you're doing
multiple channels at once.
I think you know to your point.
People have been sort of nervousabout SMS, I think, because it
was something that was a littlebit regulated than email.
It was something that felt alittle bit more personal email.
(08:51):
But on the other side, Iactually think both of those
things are advantages in SMS,because it's more regulated,
means there's less chat, there'sless junk out there.
So the engagement rate is muchhigher because it feels more
personal.
As long as you're using itcorrectly, you're able to get to
, you know, get people to engagewith you in a much more
personal way than with email.
(09:12):
On average, you know you sendan email to somebody a marketing
email might be a 2% or 3% clickrate.
Send a text message to somebodyit's going to be a 10% or 15%
click rate, so it's much higherengaging channel.
We'll talk, you know, as we getinto it, about sort of the
strategies and how to make sureyou do it correctly, but at a
high level.
It's not a bad thing that it'sregulated and personal.
(09:34):
Those are good things.
You just have to know how touse the channel correctly.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's one of thethings that's kind of a kind of
a drawback almost with, maybe,direct mail or email is you
could just get you know anyaddress or any email and
ultimately, like you can end upgetting penalized for it, you
know, with spamming and all ofthat.
(10:00):
Whereas it's a lot, I thinkit's a lot more difficult to get
phone numbers and have peopleeven you know opt into that sort
of thing.
But also the other thing aboutit that I that I like about the
text message is your phonenumber is like the one thing
that you typically don't changeas often.
Right, people move to differentaddresses a lot.
(10:22):
They change their emails a lot.
A lot of people don't changetheir phone number nearly as
much, and so that becomes justan even more valuable piece of
marketing data if you can getthat from a lead.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah, so let's start there.
So you know, I'm not a hugeproponent of cold calling or
cold texting.
Yeah, there are ways to do it.
I'm not going to get into itbecause I just think it's not
the right way to engage withpeople.
What I think is very powerfulis if you have people engaging
with your brand, ask for theirphone number and there's a lot
(10:56):
of different ways to do it.
You know and sort of you'veseen these things that pop over
a site and you know say you know, please give us your phone
number so you can talk to whombeing, or please give us your
phone number.
If it's in retail or at thiscouncil, there might have to be
a give get of some kind.
But I do recommend, high in thefunnel you know in your digital
experience getting your phonenumber.
Once you have that phone number, as you're getting it, make
(11:17):
sure that your terms are settingup for success.
What I mean by that isexplicitly tell the customer
that you're going to be using anATDS and automated telephonic
system to send them textmessages, calls, pre-reported
voicemail.
Those are three differentchannels in the United States
and you technically have to askfor permission for all of them.
(11:37):
All that means is you need asentence that says you know you
give us permission basically touse an automated telephone
dialing system to contact youvia all text messages and
pre-reported voicemail.
Usually we suggest having acheckbox so the person actively
checks it and then hits next.
There are some situations inwhich that's not necessary, but
(11:59):
that's a whole differentconversation.
Let's assume you now havepermission from this person.
Now, if their phone number yourpermission to engage with them
you know, now you need sometools.
So their sort of certainly isthe ability to like manually
text somebody for your phone.
But that's not a scalablestrategy.
So I highly recommend getting aproduct like Griegel that
(12:21):
allows you to send high-volumeoutbound SMS from a long number,
not a short code.
So you don't want to be sendingtext messages from short codes
anymore because people know thatit's spam.
Right, you want a long number.
You want a system that is goingto allow you to customize the
messages based on what you knowabout the customer.
Hi, first name this is lawyername.
(12:41):
I see you're living in, youknow city and you're interested
in product.
Let's pat on D.
Right, you can do that in ahuge scale, but you need to have
a product that can allow you tocustomize that.
And then you know that's oneway.
You also want the same productto have the ability to do two at
many of the person engages.
(13:02):
You want some way to respond,and I think that's quite hard to
find products that do both.
Griegel does.
And then the last thing is youwant a product that ideally has
an AI bottom.
So great If you're there torespond, wonderful.
But if you start setting upthese programs, somebody
responds and you're on vacationfor two days.
Now that customer isdisappointed.
So having an AI bot allows youto make sure you're engaging the
(13:25):
person at night, on weekends,when you're away, when you're
busy, and you know, move themthrough the funnel and then make
sure that they're not leftalone.
So again, griegel has that aswell.
It's very rare.
I don't think I know noproducts that have all three the
marketing SMS, the two SMS andan AI bot all together.
So you know that makes it avery useful package for people.
Yeah, once you're, you're sortof doing all that.
(13:49):
Usually what I suggest the goalto be is find the handraisers
and qualify them, and if youhave a high enough value product
that you're selling, you maywant the handraisers to be going
directly to a human beingwhether it's you or somebody
else on the team to talk.
If it's not a high enough valueproduct, maybe the first step
is when you know the handraiserthat's interested, you send them
(14:09):
a tech message saying what'syour annual income or do you?
You know, if it's mass tortlike, do you have a?
You know, did you live in thisarea between this date and that
date?
So qualify them and then passthem to a human so you can do a
lot in an automated way.
You can even do all theseautomated things to get them
actually call you, or you canautomatically schedule a call to
(14:31):
them and get them on the linebefore you're wasting any human
time.
So depends on the scale thatyou're operating, but you can
get very efficient when it comesto actual campaigns.
Usually we suggest a few.
So when you first get the lead,speed to lead is very important
and you need to engage thatperson right away.
Be the first firm that engagesthem in these sort of services.
(14:52):
You know, assume that person isgoing looking at two or three
lawyers, but where's the firstto get to them the largest
majority of the time it's acrazy thing, but the signal to
that customer that you're moreinterested and they are tend to
stop engaging as future peopletry to reach out to them.
A regal, for instance.
We even have a deal with thecell phone carriers to brand
(15:14):
calls on cell phones so thatwhen you're calling them they
know it's you and they answeredthem much higher rate.
So another value but now youknow you're, you're sort of
doing that upfront, trying toengage them.
Other sorts of campaigns wehighly recommend are two things.
One, re-engagement so if thatperson who you think is a good
prospect goes away but yoursystem sees they click on your
(15:37):
website or they click on anemail or they are doing
something that shows you youthink they're engaged again, you
know have a text message or acall that goes out in that
second.
So you need systems that arehooked into your website, your
email marketing, to make surethat you know when they're
showing signs of engagement toreach out again.
And then the last campaign is anurture campaign.
(15:57):
So you know you should besetting up you know three, six,
12 months of drips of textmessages and emails even that
try to keep the personinterested.
Show them your areas ofexpertise, highlight things that
as a firm you're doing.
Explain the value propositiondue to a long period of time,
particularly for emotionaldecisions like education or
(16:20):
certain legal services.
It's not a decision that'sgoing to be made overnight.
It's something where you want asteady drip of information to
that customer to slowly win themover.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yeah, so you know one of the things, one of the
things that I hear a lot,especially as it relates to like
email and even like socialmedia posts, which is odd the a
lot of a lot of lawyers are veryconcerned about annoying their
audience, right?
So when we talk about you knowmaybe some right and wrong ways
to use text messaging, I mean,how would you address that
(16:52):
concern where it's like I don'twant to you know, I don't want
to be too intrusive, I don'twant to annoy you know my leads
by texting them.
You know, like, how do youaddress something like that?
So a couple things.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So there's the legal side of it, which is you have to
get opted and if the personwants to stop, you have to opt
them out, and you need torespect that and there are
certain rules that you cannotviolate.
Then there's customerpreference.
The funny thing is actually,when you do interviews with
customers, they prefer textmessage from brands that they
want to engage with.
(17:25):
So, as I say, I'm not talkingabout cold calling, cold SMS.
Different world don't want toengage on that.
But if you're doing somethingwith somebody who's an
interested prospect, this issomething that they prefer, as
long as you're demonstratingthat it's actually a channel
that they can use to reach outto.
Now if you open up an SMSconversation with them and they
(17:46):
respond and you never respondback, that's a black eye, right.
If they give you a phone numberand you're just sending them,
you know they would clearly wereinterested in.
You know services around.
You know divorce and you'reconstantly telling them about.
You know child protectiveservices and again, you've lost
them.
But people like and expect SMSof the channel.
(18:08):
So that's not the issue, it'sjust how you use it.
I think the last piece is youknow, as a firm, figuring out
what is the cadence on whichcustomers want to hear from you,
and it depends by product.
So you know, retail is verywell established at this point
where you have lots and lots ofskews, it's probably okay, if
(18:28):
it's a brand that they like, tobe sending pretty regular text
messages with different skews.
That might be interesting.
You know different products andthey'd be interesting in the
person, especially if there'sdiscount.
So if you're a big fan ofPatagonia and Patagonia sends
you a text message about theproduct you're looking at with
you know special offers, you'regoing to be very excited and
that could be every week, Ithink.
On the you know other spectrum,you know, if you're a dentist,
(18:52):
we're sending you text messagesevery week.
You would probably say this isannoying, right?
All you want from your dentistis to make sure that every six
months that you're.
You know they're engaging withyou to align you to get that
appointment schedule.
You need your teeth cleanedevery six months, so you know
figure out for your businesswhat the right cadence is and
you can also test into it.
(19:12):
So as you start sending textmessages, if you watch the
unsubscribe rate, the rate ofpeople saying stop, and it goes
over 1% for a text message, itprobably assigns a bad text.
You know, if over time you'reyou're seeing that you know the
click rate on links you'reputting in, it is sub, we call
it 10%, probably a bad text.
And so it's iterative, you canlearn.
Obviously, like you can'tre-subscribe those people,
(19:35):
you've lost them.
But for future customers youcan always do better.
So you know, I think like thelast idea I'd leave you with is
you know, for customers theyhave choice, so you're not doing
anything that they can't getout of.
So if you're trying to engagewith a customer that you think
is a great prospect on thecadence, that you think is
(19:56):
respectful, and they don't wantto participate, they're just
going to write back stop andthey're out of it.
So it's not really thatproblematic.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, I would agree with that.
And you talk about building thecadence and everything like
that.
I mean, I think, even beyondmarketing, especially in the
legal space, for me I thinkthere's a really big opportunity
for law firms to really improvetheir customer service, cause,
like one of the biggest knocksthat I hear a lot and I've even
(20:25):
experienced this myself is thatlaw firms just do a really bad
job of staying in touch andkeeping people updated, even on
their case.
And so for me and I don't knowif you've seen this, but to me I
think you set up, you have thistext messaging system a great
and easy thing to do is to justsend some regular update text
(20:47):
about how people's cases aregoing.
And that's not really.
It's kind of a marketing thing,but it's not.
It's more of a customer servicething, cause they've already
signed, they're already a client.
But what other ways are youseeing businesses kind of
utilize text, even beyond somevarious marketing communications
?
Yeah, so there's a couple ofcritical distinctions.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
First, legally there's a distinction between
what are called transactionalmessages and solicitation or
marketing messages.
If all you're doing is sayingyou have an appointment tomorrow
, you don't need to be opt inyou can just send it, the person
can unsubscribe from it, butyou're not allowed to do
marketing in that message.
If you're soliciting, meaninglike you're asking them to do
(21:30):
something, asking them to paysome money, then there's
different rules.
I'd say a lot of firms areunderutilizing just the sort of
transactional reminder messages,and that's a real shame because
I do think they can be veryhelpful to customers.
Hey, you have an appointmenttomorrow.
Hey, your court case moved tothe next step.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
And it's not that much work Again.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
system like it goes, very easily handles the messages
.
Because we allow firms toconnect to us all their data
sources on what's happening, wecan automate the text messages,
so nobody needs to think aboutit.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
But you know.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I'll give you an example in another industry,
where you can sort ofpersonalize it a little bit.
So instead of just sending your, packages on the way we have
some companies that will say hi,this is Julia.
I spoke to you last week.
I see your packages.
You know, just left ourwarehouse and I'm watching it
for you.
Really excited for you to getthis, no that was an automated
text message, that wastransactional those sales but it
(22:27):
felt much more personal becauseI made sure that it came from
the last person I talked with.
You know, because we use thatvariable, and it felt like I
could respond to it, maybe evensuch that I go thanks, julia,
really wanna buy this next thing, can you chat with me about it?
Or I wanna engage on anotherproject.
So, even with the sort of moretransactional, be smart about
(22:48):
how you're doing it.
I would say, on the to yourpoint on solicitation, there's a
lot of different key momentsthrough that customer's journey.
You know there's, you know, thenew customer onboarding,
there's retention, there'supsell, cross-sell, win back.
So outside of even the case thatyou're talking about, there's a
lot of different things in sortof something like legal, I
(23:10):
think it's fewer and far between, let's say it's hopefully you
don't have the need for legalservices all the time, but I
still think people appreciatethe kind gesture, maybe once a
year, somebody they work withreaching out and sending a
Christmas gift, sending a nicetext message.
(23:31):
So that's very common inservice industries like legal,
where you take your top 50customers and you send them a
gift.
You take the next 50 and yousend them a nice random note.
You take the next 50 or maybethe next 5,000 and you send them
all a nice text message with animage.
So it's something that canagain just expand your reach.
(23:52):
So, whatever you're doing toservice your top 50 customers,
how do you replicate that usingtechnology across your top 5,000
so that they all feel thatpersonal touch?
and don't feel left out.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, and I think for me, I think, the biggest thing
is, you know, maybe some of theyounger Gen Xers, most of the
millennials, definitely Gen Z,that's just how we've been
conditioned to communicate.
You know we communicate morevia text than we do via phone
call or even email, and so youknow to your point, you know,
(24:30):
being able to have that not justas a convenience factor but to
feel like we're making more of aconnection with that business
and streamlining that a lot more, I think really does make it
more valuable.
And I know, just speaking frommy own personal experience, like
that's just how I would preferto hear from someone like I may
not be available all the time totake a phone call or, you know,
(24:53):
interrupt what I'm doing totake a phone call, but if I can
see a text real quick, perfect,and you know, that's all I'm
gonna say.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Part of the advantage of Regal is that our system
allows texting calls from thesame number.
So historically one of thechallenges with the text message
marketing is that again, it wasonly one way, and even if you
do two way, you still can't getthem on the phone because it's
just a texting system.
Well, we've got the ability todo one way messaging, two way
messaging the AI and phone allfrom the same system.
(25:20):
So you can say in your textmessage hey, here's the update,
you know, call me whenever youhave a chance.
Or we even have automationwhere we will say hey, you know,
right back, yes, and I'll callyou right.
So, based off of the customerresponding to a text message
change, we can sort of make surethat somebody's calling them
back.
So those are just againopportunities to leverage
(25:43):
technology to treat somebodybetter at more scale.
When it was just a smallpractice and you had your
shingle out and you know therewere two lawyers, you could give
that level of care to yourclients.
As you grow and get larger,you're gonna need support,
you're gonna need technology tobe able to offer that same level
of service to more clients, andthat's perfectly okay.
(26:03):
Again, you can wow clients veryeasily now using these tools.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
So great transition there.
Let people know a little bitmore about how to learn more
about all the things that Regaldoes and where they can go.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, so please go to regalio.
You can email me at hello.
At regalio we serve a lot oflaw firms across different sorts
of practices.
I think you know if you're oneor two lawyers there are
probably simpler tools out there.
If you email me I'd be happy torecommend them.
But as your, you know, as yoursort of maturity grows on the
marketing, we can really helphave a lot of impact from moving
(26:43):
firms from very basicone-on-one type SMS usage to
very sophisticated, personalized, customized, segment-based and
journey-based messaging, and youknow it has an enormous impact
on people's business at scale.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Love it.
I just a lot of good stuffthere.
I love all the insight that youshared and, just you know, try
just kind of shining the lighton just how much opportunity
really is there for text messagemarketing.
One final question for you,though, before we wrap up If you
had one final piece of advicefor our listeners, what would it
be?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, I mean go back to the point I made at the
beginning.
Everybody is a marketer.
You know I think you know Italked to so many folks who sort
of go on really great, you knowX, you know peaks, maybe it's
just sales or they're very goodat direct mail or very good at
whatever, but they're missingthe opportunity to expand to
more channels.
And it takes time, I understand, but I definitely think it's
(27:41):
worth the investment to sit down, figure out exactly those
you're right customer and figureout how you reach that customer
across different channels,because it is going to have a
massive impact on your business.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Just.
You know, understanding thatclient's journey, you know
through their entire experiencewith your firm, you know, and
just the different tools thatyou can use to help them out
really does make all thedifference.
And so, alex, thanks so muchfor joining us.
A lot of great stuff, you know,that you shared with us and
hope you guys check out Regaland see if there's an
(28:14):
opportunity there for you tostart using more text messaging
in your communications, whetherit's marketing or even just case
updates along the way.
Whatever it is, and that'sgoing to do it for us this week,
please leave your rating andreview If you have not done so
yet.
It really does help the showout and that's it, alex.
Thanks so much for joining us,thank you.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom.
Slash center stage.
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