July 21, 2026 • 52 mins
Rapid growth puts immense pressure on public infrastructure, and school systems are often the first to feel the strain. Managing tens of thousands of students while maintaining high academic standards requires constant adaptation and zero tolerance for stagnation. Superintendent Dr. Debbie Jones, who leads Bentonville Schools, sits down to share her perspective on leading one of the fastest-growing school districts in Arkansas.
We get into the specific operational and strategic moves required to manage a district serving over 20,000 students. Dr. Debbie Jones details the intentional expansion of specialized magnet options like International Baccalaureate programs, the strategy behind partnering with local industry for regional career health campuses, and the district's practical, human-centered policy on integrating AI tools into classrooms. She also reveals her perspective on instructional leadership, emphasizing that true accountability focuses on whether students are actively learning rather than merely monitoring how teachers teach.
Growth creates friction, and attracting top talent becomes nearly impossible when local real estate pricing priced out incoming professionals. To counter contract resignations caused by high living costs, Bentonville Schools took on an ambitious initiative to build district-owned, affordable cottage housing for its staff. Providing structural solutions to systemic problems ensures the district continues to retain high-performing personnel despite broader economic pressures.
If you care about public education innovation, district leadership strategies, and creative solutions to workforce retention, you will get a lot from this conversation. Subscribe to the channel and share this episode with someone interested in local leadership. What is the most pressing challenge facing public school systems in your region today?
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
This is Central to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm your host, Paul Gatling, andwe are bringing the University
of Central Arkansas to NorthwestArkansas.
Each episode, we will talk withleaders, alumni, and innovators
driving this region forward.
People who are shapingindustries and defining what is
next for our state.
(00:22):
Let's get started.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of Central to
NWA, UCA podcast, where we haveconversations with UCA alumni,
business leaders, and people whoare helping shape all the
exciting things and the growthhappening in Northwest Arkansas
in terms of leadership,innovation, and education.
My guest today is somebody thatI've been looking forward to
(00:44):
meeting in person.
We've talked over the phone acouple of times, but today is
our first face-to-faceconversation.
She leads one of the largest andfastest growing school
districts, public schooldistricts in Arkansas, more than
20,000 students, about 2,500employees.
She's also a University ofCentral Arkansas alumna.
She earned her master's degreein educational administration.
(01:06):
And in 2025, she was namedArkansas Superintendent of the
Year.
Dr.
Debbie Jones is thesuperintendent of Bentonville
Schools.
Welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Oh, it's so great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
And good to meet you in person.
Yeah, you as well.
Now you're about to begin your11th year.
11th academic year inBentonville.
Wow.
Do you pinch yourself when yousee it when you hear that
sentence?
11 years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
You know, it just flies.
I can't believe I've beensuperintendent going on my 11th
year.
Uh we moved from CentralArkansas, February 1, 2016.
And it has been such an amazingexperience.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Right.
And do you still get the uh uhfirst of school year?
Does that still excite you?
Do you still mark your calendarby the dates in the summertime?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
We're very much systematic in our thinking.
Um, and we're for myadministrative team right now.
We're very very busy.
We work all summer and it'sstrategic planning for the
upcoming year.
We start always in early Julywith our cabinet retreat where
we set focus goes, followed upby our administrator meeting
(02:15):
with all of our principals andassistant principals and
focusing for the next year.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yeah.
And so before you came up here,one of your stops, you and I
have talked about this, is whereyou and I have a small
connection.
We we both know Bryant prettywell.
Yes, we do.
I'm a Bryant high schoolgraduate, and you spent several
years there helping lead theschool district.
One year as principal, I think,and then um several years in the
administrative offices beforemaking your way to Northwest
(02:41):
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
I was in Bryant eight great years, great
experience.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah.
Well, listen, I'm again excitedyou're here.
We're going to talk aboutBentonville schools and
education and leadership.
And um uh, but first let's talkabout um Charleston, Arkansas,
where you grew up, right?
Born in Fort Smith, but youmoved to Charleston uh at a
young age where you grew up inum, you know, a family that
maybe kind of set your pathtowards education, right?
(03:05):
Very much so.
Paint that picture for me.
What was it like?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Um my dad was a football coach, marketing
teacher in the summertime.
Some of my greatest memories, mysister and I would go to North
Side, we'd run the halls whilehe worked, we'd look in open
lockers, and so education's beenlifelong for me.
But uh we belled hay.
I got my tan on the tractor,raking hay, no joke.
(03:32):
And that's back in the day whenyou could be in the sun all day,
and the darker you got, thebetter.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Um we grew up playing three girls, we all
played sports, basketball,softball.
Dad was oftentimes a coach forus in summer sports and grew up
very competitive as a footballcoach would have it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
And uh they still, my parents are 84 and 85, still
have big gardens, lots of cowson the farm.
He's the difference now is thetractor is air conditioned.
It was not so much when I wasthere.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Right.
Love technology and theadvancements of technology on
the farm.
So you would consider beconsidered a farm girl.
I am a farm girl fromCharleston.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
Now, my dad, he always wants to talk politics
when I go home, I don't engage,and he calls me a city girl now.
But truly, the values that welearn from mom and dad.
And this is one thing that I'verealized throughout my adulthood
is we're still trying to makemom and dad proud.
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
I think that's that's universal.
You know, my my dad was a um uhpublic school administrator
retired.
My mother was um public schoolteacher retired.
Actually, she she taught, she isa UCA graduate.
Really?
Um, her senior year was the year67-68, the year they changed
from if I get this right, StateTeachers College of Arkansas to
(05:01):
State College of Arkansas, thenlater UCA.
But yeah, she took a job atMariana right out of UCA, and
then to Baldknob, and then toBryant, where she finished up.
She finished up the the bulk ofher career there at Bryant.
So a lot of what you said therejust resonated with me.
And probably like me, like you,I mean, your your parents,
especially your dad, probably isa football coach, probably kind
(05:23):
of shaped your view ofleadership.
Would that be an accurate thingto say?
SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Absolutely.
And um he's the one that saidyou'd make a good English
teacher.
Right.
And so that's why I pursuedEnglish.
But I tell you what, my mom, asfar as professional female,
there is not a more consummateprofessional than I saw in her
every day.
She was a chief administrator'sadmin, Sister Judith Marie at
(05:49):
Mercy in Fort Smith, and they'restill very close.
But she would put on hose andheels and a jacket every day.
She would work all day, comehome, cook dinner every single
night.
But she modeled just grace andum I guess emotional control and
(06:11):
leadership that I really havegreat respect for today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Yeah.
What was high school like foryou playing sports and growing
up with you?
Tell me what that was like.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Everything revolved around basketball.
It revolved around the sports,and that's why I have a true
appreciation for um whether it'sfine arts or whether it's
athletics, academics, or career.
A student has to have a majorinterest to get them engaged in
(06:44):
school.
And um I would say when we talkabout priorities in Bentonville
schools, three things.
And they're all, no one hasgreater priority than the other.
Athletics, fine arts, bands,orchestra, all the things, art
and academic.
And I very much keep those on anequal plane because you have to
(07:09):
get school kids engaged so thatthey want to be at school.
And there is an answer foreveryone.
There's a way to get at everystudent to get them there and
get them engaged and want to bethere.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
How do you do that?
How do you tap into thosestudents?
How do you get them into engage?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
You have to offer a wide array of opportunities.
And you have to be very vocalabout telling the story.
Um, within each one of thoseprograms, you have to offer a
student a chance to lead, toshy, to participate.
They just have to find theircrew, their group of kids that
(07:49):
they feel comfortable with andthey want to be around.
And that's why I couldn't evenbegin to give you the number of
clubs we have at the schoolsnow.
Um, at one time, when uh wecounted them probably five or
six years ago at BHS, we hadover 50 different clubs kids
could join.
And that's not including all theother sports and fine arts and
(08:12):
opportunities.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
And so there's a place for everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Did you have a good crew as a Charleston Lady Tiger
basketball player?
Pretty good teams in highschool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:22):
We were always good.
SPEAKER_00 (08:23):
Yeah, Charleston's always got good high school
athletic programs.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
We were.
I I wasn't as good as my littlesister who went on to play
college ball at SMU.
Uh, but I was always pointguard, and my older sister was
the post.
And so we we had the opportunityto play together throughout our
high school years.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Yep.
State tournament runs.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Always.
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
All right.
And so then you you attended theU of A University of Arkansas,
got married, spent a few yearsmoving around the country, but
eventually you found your wayback to Arkansas and into the
classroom, as you said, as anEnglish teacher.
Yes.
What did you love aboutteaching?
Being in the classroom.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
The most um memorable times were those times
that I could engage withstudents in discussing
literature.
That was the best.
And, you know, uh I taught atSheridan for several years under
Charles Tadlock.
That's where my dad's from.
Really loved it.
Sheridan, yeah.
Great experience at the juniorhigh.
And so in the spring, I wouldtake my eighth grade class
(09:27):
outside, and we read The Call ofthe Wild.
And students were engaged.
If you just create thisenvironment where they want to
be there, it was so much fun.
Yeah.
I have the best memories.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Yeah, I I've heard that name, Charles Tadlog.
You know, dad grew up inSheridan.
He and my uncles, they allplayed basketball.
They all played basketball incollege.
Dad moved back to Sheridan, youknow, later in life.
And uh still a lot of closefamily ties there in Sheridan.
My uncle still lives there.
Um, but that's you and I aretalking like this is Arkansas,
right?
There's so many small degrees ofseparation.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So Coach Tadlock taught me at Charleston,
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
And so when I was looking for a job, he was
principal of the junior high.
And so he taught me as a teacherhow to be a really good
evaluator.
Because when you would come inhis office, it was evaluation
time.
He'd always sit back and said,Well, you evaluate you.
How do you think you did thefirst?
You know, and that's one of thetoughest things to do.
(10:29):
But he was really very good andloved by his staff in Sheridan.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Yeah.
At what point did you uh realizethat you that you thought you
might want to influence morethan just, you know, the
students in your classroom thatyou might want to take on a
broader world?
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
I've thought a lot about my path.
And it really has there was noone certain point.
It was always this internaldrive to an education.
What's next?
Okay.
So now that I have mybachelor's, now I need my
master's.
And so when the timing was rightwith children, with having
(11:05):
children, uh, then I would go onand pursue the next level.
Now, when I finished thatdoctorate, which was a long,
arduous process and tough to dowith three kids.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Because when I was at the baseball field with my
son, I was reading all thearticles and I wasn't really
sitting with other moms.
I was off in my little lawnchair trying to fit everything
in, which was tough.
And I thought that's it.
That's it for me.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
On the doctorate.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
That's better to do that than live and die with
every pitch, I guess.
And develop the empires, like alot of the parents do.
Um, so yeah, you went back toschool, raising a young family,
earned your master's at UCA.
Um, what do you think UCA,looking back on it now, what do
you think UCA gave you thathelped you prepare for
leadership and to kind of startyour leadership path?
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
It really helped me build a network.
Um, getting to know peoplewithin education.
It helped me get verycomfortable with at that point
learning what a goodinstructional classroom looked
like, what a good teacher does.
I still remember some of theactivities that we did that I
practiced as a teacher.
(12:14):
And then from that, learning howto really evaluate what I'm
looking for in a strong academicclassroom.
And it's not about the teaching,it's really about the learning,
which is two totally differentthings.
And so I think that drives somuch of what we do in education
today with the cabinet, with thestandards that we set in
(12:38):
Bitonville schools.
It's our kids learning at thepace we expect them to learn.
And so, really, my foundationalunderstanding in education was
built at UCA.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Good.
Good.
Great to hear that.
And that started your uh careertrajectory into administration,
uh uh Little Rock Mills,Jacksonville, middle school
principal, high school, uhPlaski County, and then on to
Bryant.
What did those earlyadministrative roles um know?
I'm sure those were not theeasiest of jobs.
No, they were not back then.
(13:11):
What did that teach you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
So many things inside and outside the
classroom.
I will tell you that when I wasin Pulaski County and I was
there 10 years, it was during anera of union, and that was a new
experience coming fromCharleston, Arkansas.
And so many times I would serveas a teacher, I was approached
(13:37):
about joining the union.
Um, and then I served on theadministrative side,
negotiations teams, and allthat.
It was, it became, you just getto see the real world and the
whole politics of the situation.
But um I learned um how to dealwith diverse groups.
(13:58):
I learned how to be anadministrator with high poverty
schools, specifically when I wasat Jacksonville Middle School,
and I had about 700 studentsthere.
Some of my best memories werebuilt there.
And it was you dealt with a lotof crisis situations.
(14:20):
I dealt with the police a lot, Idealt with families a lot.
Um, I remember this is kind of afunny story, walking in the
office, and it was you'rescrambling as fast as you can
go, as your assistant principalsare all day long.
Walking in the office, and I hada grandpa waiting there, and
(14:41):
he's like, Um, yeah, are youready?
I've got fish to fry.
And I said, Well, you just warmup that oil, and I'll be with
you as soon as I can get withyou.
You know, you just learn how todeal with the public and how to
be professional and relate todifferent cultures in such a
respectful and appreciative way.
(15:02):
And thank goodness for thevariety of cultures and all the
experiences.
I loved that.
One of my best presents of allthe years was a little brooch
that I a student brought me.
I worked with him quite a bit,had some of the stones missing.
Oh, but it was the gift.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
You know, it's the thought that he wants to give me
something for Christmas.
And that's a memory that I willalways have.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
Right.
Well, there's another story.
Um, I read the story earlier inyour career at Jacksonville.
You were visiting the home ofwhat you describe as a brilliant
student, you and one of yourcounselors, um, living in
extreme poverty.
Can you share that story?
SPEAKER_01 (15:44):
I can.
And that counselor was JosieNoble, who was an amazing short
little counselor, but fiery.
And that was when I was atJacksonville Middle.
And when we entered school, shewas quick to tell me, okay, we
have this sixth grader.
And she has been retained, butlook at the standardized test
(16:07):
score.
And she was above the N throughthe roof.
But she hadn't been retainedbecause of performance.
It was because of lack ofattendance.
And then when we visited thehome and we drove up to this
trailer, and there were thesegroup of characters on the
trailer next to us and said, Youdon't want to be, you don't want
(16:29):
to go in that home.
You don't want to approach that.
Um, y'all need to get back inyour car and leave.
And I remember Josie and I,Josie's like, oh, should we?
I'm like, we should.
Let's do we'll be fine.
And that's the country in me.
I was probably naive and didn'tknow we're gonna be just fine.
And so approached the door, andyou could hear dogs barking.
(16:52):
You knew someone was in thereand knocking.
And I'm like, is there someonein here?
And they said, Yeah, there'ssomeone.
So eventually they did answerthe door.
And um, this little girl, it wasthat you could smell all the
animals in the home, but she hadfought having lice so large
sitting across from her.
I could see them crawling.
(17:14):
And so Josie and I just said, Wewill shower you at school every
day, we will get you thesupplies you need, but you have
to get here.
Um, we worked with DHS and whatI've realized through education
and all of the departments, noone's coming to save you.
(17:36):
As an educator, no one is comingto save you.
It's you have to take the reins,you have to do what you have to
do to save kids.
And Josie, and I wonder everyday where that brilliant girl
is.
I wonder where she is.
And I expect that she rose aboveall the circumstances with which
(17:58):
she had to live.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
How did that experience um impact or maybe
even forge your philosophy ofeducation?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
And it just makes your backbone stronger.
It's like, you know, that factthat you have to do everything
you can for students, um,especially when they want
better, when they're willing todo it themselves and they didn't
ask for those circumstances.
Um, we have to be it's incumbentupon educators.
(18:29):
It is our moral obligation to doeverything we can.
They're they're begging forsomeone.
So um truly, education is anoble profession.
I know you've heard people don'tdo it for the money, but you
have to listen to that callinginside.
(18:51):
And that's the people that weemploy, they have that.
And of all my experience, uh,when I came to Bryant after, you
know, Pulaski County, I learnedthe master contract, which was
so confusing.
When you leave a unionizedmaster contract, I was very
confused.
What's the law?
(19:11):
What's master contract inBryant?
And uh in Bryant, I'm like, Ilearned what the law was.
And then when I moved toBentonville and started working,
of course, I was at thedepartment for a couple of
years, but when I moved toBryant, I was so shocked at the
lengths that teachers go to, thehours that they work, and there
(19:34):
is no end time for them.
It's like they have they dowhatever they have to do to win
the state championship, to winthe cross-country state tra
championship, to get the childto read.
Whatever it takes is whatthey're willing to do.
And that's basically in anutshell what an educator has to
(19:58):
be.
You have to do whatever it takesfor whatever the need is.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
It's a lifestyle.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
And it's a it's a very big commitment.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Like like I said, I my mothertaught for 33 years, and um and
you know, small Brian was smallback then, you know, consider
compared to today.
But um, yeah, I and I'm reallyglad going back to the moral
obligation.
Um, I'm so glad you said thatbecause that's what I was
thinking.
And in terms of there are somany things that you have to do.
(20:28):
You have to be in school Xamount of days, you have to
teach this, you have to havebenchmark scores, all of those
things that are black and white,but there's also the moral
obligation to care uh for thewhole child.
And that story, I think,perfectly illustrates that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Right.
All of those state compliantrequirement things that you have
to do, that's such a small partof what a real teacher really
does.
Um, and it's it's the worry thatthey have over kids.
It's the constant obligation inyour mind, like I should be
(21:06):
working on lesson plans or Ishould be reading essays.
No one tells you about thethings in your head that
continue long after the 430dismissal.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Which of those we've ran them down, you know,
Jacksonville, Plasky County,Bryant, uh Department of
Education, which of those stopsdo you think um um impacted your
career the most at the time?
I'm sure they all did at thetime, uh, but is there one spot
uh that maybe stands out morethan than another?
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
I think so.
Um probably Bryant, because whenI went into Bryant, I was first
the principal.
And honestly, I expected just tostay principal, just to be
principal until all my kidsgraduated from high school.
And Dr.
Abernathy called and said,Debbie, you haven't applied for
this deputy superintendent, thisassistant superintendent job
(21:58):
yet.
And I'm like, I know, I justgot.
Here.
He said, no, come interview andapply for this job.
And I'd finished up mydissertation on the effects of
lead certified buildings, whichwas Bethel.
It was the first in the state.
And I took on that job.
And the strength was that job isthat we only had two assistant
(22:20):
superintendents.
It was HR.
And then I did all the academicK312.
I learned from really amazingspecialists who told me I didn't
know anything about elementary,Sandy Shepard.
And I didn't, but she was veryrude about it.
So she got my attention.
(22:42):
And so I learned so much in thatrole, but in learning all the
different rows from GT to ALE tospecial ed to 504.
And there's a massive amount oflearning.
I also gained the confidencethat yes, I can do this.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
You gained that confidence and um you gained the
attention of uh Mike Poor inBiddenville, right?
So eventually that led you.
That that career path in Bryantsounds remarkably similar to
what it was in Biddenville.
The next thing you know, you'regoing from here to here, right?
So what attracted you toBittenville?
What are the circumstances thatgot you to Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Well, okay, I told you I was competitive.
And so every year I would standin front of the Bryant school
board and I would look at ourcompetitors in the state, and I
still remember the bar graph onperformance.
And we're like that Bittenville,they keep feeding us.
Right.
Um, and so that was always ourgoal to get to really outachie
(23:43):
them.
And so that's how I first metMike.
I'm like, what are y'all doingthat we're not doing?
Because I was big on stealingfrom others, and so we brought a
team um to Bryant, and fromthat, PLC's professional
learning communities began inBryant, and we also uh came up
(24:05):
to Bentonville to learn aboutmastery math.
We took it back.
Um, and so really out the areamy sister lived in northwest
Arkansas at the time, and I justloved northwest Arkansas.
I loved the mountains, I lovedthe razor bags.
Yeah, I graduated from U of Aand my bachelor's, and I just
(24:28):
wanted to kind of get back toNorthwest Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Do you ride bikes?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yeah.
Not mountain bikes.
Not mountain bikes, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
I don't want to break uh an ankle or a an elk
collarbone, all the things thatyou must break, but I'm not a
mountain biker.
I would be if I were younger,probably.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah, we you and I are in the minority.
I'm not a mountain biker either.
And but everybody, it seems, inBentonville is a mountain biker.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
We like to bike.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
I like to do yoga, that's gonna be a lifelong
commitment for me.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
And I play with grandbabies.
That's what we do.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
So February 2016, you begin as assistant
superintendent, and then uhMichael Poor, about three months
later, takes a job as the LittleRock School Superintendent.
And so you become interimsuperintendent.
Um, what was going through yourmind in those three or four
months?
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
In three or four months, I was like, oh, I'm just
I'm so thankful to be here.
I honestly had been at theDepartment of Ed as assistant
commissioner, and so I'd had theexperience of working during the
legislative season, and I wantedto just get politics out of my
life.
And so moved up here, and Ithought I'm just gonna keep my
(25:48):
head down, do my job, have thispiece, not do politics.
I did not apply for thesuperintendent's job.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Why not?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Because I wanted to avoid politics, I didn't want to
get in a rat race and try toearn a job necessarily.
I didn't want to politic for ajob.
I just wanted to do my job andbe at peace.
And so I just did thatthroughout the summer.
I knew I could do the job.
I was actually the day I wasoffered the job, I had met with
(26:22):
our Monday morning leadership inthe city and set up two
appointments for the twonational finalists that the
board would name that night.
We went to the board meeting.
Um, Travis Riggs, the boardpresident, came out and said, We
want to offer you the job.
And will you take it?
(26:44):
And I said, Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
That was your reaction.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Yes, yes, yes, okay.
I knew I could do the job.
I honestly did not think thatwas going to happen.
I didn't, um, I did not plan forthat at all.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
And uh he said, Well, you probably want to call
home because as soon as weannounce it's gonna go live on
Twitter.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
And so I called home and uh my son said, Mom, he was
home from college.
I thought you were, I said, Iwasn't, I'll explain when I get
home.
And so from then on, it's beenjust trying to keep up with the
pace of life in Bitonville.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah.
Well, and I was reading, I wasgoing back and reading some
reporting about that time 10years ago.
It was 10 years ago this month,uh, July 2016, to your point.
I mean, there was they talked tothere were several hundred
people who were contacted, andso many people interviewed, and
so many, and none of hardly anyof them were from Arkansas.
They're just there were it was anational search.
(27:44):
And so when you get that thatmessage from Travis, um, that
we've we've seen all thesepeople, we've talked to all
these people.
I I guess the point I'm tryingto make is because you said you
didn't, you knew you could doit, but you you weren't
interested in it.
What did that teach you about uhjust confidence and leadership
and knowing that uh I can dothis?
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
And I have said this many times at women's
conferences when I've giventalks.
Um, you know, the moment I saidyes, it hit me.
I knew I could do this job.
Why did I not just put my namein the hat?
And I feel like we've done areally good job um in building
(28:27):
an amazing cabinet team.
It's just that, as I tellleaders today, if you think
there's an interest in the job,be introspective about it and go
for the jobs that you want tohold.
And um, I would have been happyas assistant superintendent.
(28:47):
I could have easily worked foranyone they had chosen.
But I knew I could do the jobwell too.
And so part of me, it's advicefrom I don't know that it was a
mistake because it worked outwell, but that's rare that that
happens.
Put your name out there, applyfor jobs.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Okay, so yeah, in six months, you go from
assistant superintendent,interim superintendent,
full-time superintendent, andnow here we are 10 years later,
10-year anniversary as thesuperintendent and one of the
most um high performing schooldistricts in Arkansas, not just
the largest, not just the most,but very high performing, very
nationally recognized.
How do you keep a district thatis growing as fast as
(29:30):
Bentonville is?
How do you maintain that cultureof high performance and that
profile of high performance?
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
It's very intentional.
It does not happen by accident.
Um, number one, you have tobuild an amazing leadership
team.
And it doesn't mean they're allthe same.
It it I try to be conscious.
I'm not trying to hire peoplelike me or people that agree
with me all the time.
But on our cabinet team, we havedriven people who have high
(30:02):
standards, a lot of top A.
So you can imagine what some ofour cabinet meetings are like.
Sometimes they're very strictly,yeah.
They are.
But they're it's high qualityand they take ownership.
And I'm very conscious abouttrying to stay within my lane
and let them have the ownershipof their areas.
(30:25):
Um, but also this, you know, inthe first couple of years I had
the job, my thinking wasBentonville has always been
excellent.
They're known for theexcellence, just don't screw it
up.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
Yeah.
It's a high bar.
SPEAKER_01 (30:39):
It's a high bar.
And that's a scary place toenter, too.
And so um, when I entered, I wasnot as willing to make uh
somewhat risky or aggressivemoves.
We did everything the same.
And what I mean by that, as we'dopen another elementary school,
(31:00):
it was given the same as all theother schools, the same staff,
the same programs.
Um that's very that's changed inthe last five years.
We've made more robust steps.
And I will say it's in a veryintentional effort to provide
specialized parent choiceschools.
(31:21):
When we opened theInternational, for example, it
was Mary Mae Jones.
Um, we had space for about 300students, and that's a lot of
space in one of our schoolsbecause we have all of these
open spaces in downtownelementary schools where the
district began, but our borderschools are full.
(31:45):
And so we had we wanted toattract rather than force people
to downtown schools, we wantedparents to choose if they're
working in downtown to bringtheir kids downtown or we would
transport.
And so with uh theinternational, and we went
through a process, long process,but they could choose what
(32:08):
special identification, and theychose international
baccalaureate, which means it'smore of a multicultural worldly
view of education that uhstudents learn how to solve
problems of the world together,working together.
They have two languages all theway up, and so they're full
(32:30):
today, and it was a very shorttime period that they have
filled.
They can go from IB atelementary to IB at Ruth Barker
to IB at Washington Junior High,and then they'll finish at BHS.
So we have a K-12 IB program,which is exceptional.
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
Okay, and it sounds like you mentioned full.
Everything is full, it seemslike in the Bentonville schools
when you start them, like youstarted this program and it was
full.
The response was was immediate.
So school choice, uh parentparental choice, and zoning and
those issues, it sounds likethose dominate a lot of your
time.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
They do.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
What are the other critical issues that that maybe
keep you awake at night or thatyou spend most of your time on?
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
You know, and sometimes it's good problems I
wake up trying to solve, but thesuperintendency is a restless
job.
Um, when you wake up at two andthink, and you're solving
problems, that's that's when Isolve all my problems.
Uh, for example, you might haveheard this was a really big year
for us.
(33:34):
Um, Alice Walton visited ourIgnaT professional studies
program.
It truly is a program, andnationally we've what we've
looked at professional programs,and I don't see a program that
surpasses this one.
It's very unique.
Um, but she visited thefoundation had supported IGNAT
(33:58):
since the beginning 10 yearsago, and with equipment.
And so she had heard the goodresults because when you take a
grant from the WaltonFoundation, you also provide
really good data regularly.
Um, and they had brought in thenumber of certificates, a high
(34:19):
performance, the good responsefrom all of our business
partners.
And so she walked through andsat down with principal Jessica
Emble and some of the leadershipand said, uh, this is a
marvelous program.
What can we do to continue this?
(34:39):
And I said, we want to give us,give our kids the opportunity to
learn alongside the doctors andthe nurses and all the employees
in the new Bentonvillehealthcare campus we hear you
might be building.
SPEAKER_02 (34:54):
Yeah, more space.
SPEAKER_01 (34:55):
Yeah.
And well, it was really thehardest, the biggest challenge
in running a program like thatis giving kids the network, the
internship.
And that's what we went for.
It's like, will you give ourkids this opportunity?
Build it in as you build ahospital.
And she said, How about I justbuild you a building on the
(35:15):
campus?
And I'm like, We'll take floor.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
You know, and it's so expensive to build.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Yeah.
It's essentially a third highschool.
It was she's doing it it is.
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
In fact, we had in 2030, because of growth, we
would have to open, we'd have tobuild a professional studies
high school.
And we had already looked at allthe opportunities.
What can we do?
And that was really what wecould do that was most
affordable.
And we wouldn't rebuild all theathletic programs.
We would pull kids off.
(35:51):
And so that would open in 2030.
And what she did, and she said,it has to be a regional program
because you have to provide thisother opportunity, this
opportunity for other districtsin the region.
And we said we can do that.
And it will open with a capacityof eventually 1,500 kids.
And it does take the place ofthat high school.
(36:13):
And we will include otherregions within the program, and
it will be an Igna program.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
And that opens when on track of 2029, 2029.
Wow.
Yeah, I I I think um obviouslythat's been reported and people
are talking about, but I don't Idon't think the impact of that
is is fully understood uh aboutwhat that's going to do for um,
you know, you mentionedBentonville, but also, you know,
P Ridge and and Gravit and someother school districts around
Benton County, uh, of what thatexpanded site is going to do.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
I I think it's gonna have a massive impact on the
state and the regional statesbecause as I grow older and I
see the need for specialists inthe area, that's the point is
bringing high-qualityspecialists to our Arkansas and
having it in our back door is agift, if especially if you have
(37:06):
the opportunity to live in thisregion.
SPEAKER_00 (37:09):
Yeah, and we we think about it in those terms um
through the UCA lens of youknow, about a little under 20%
of all of our students are onsome sort of health care related
degree path.
So in our in our mind, I meanthe the the students that were
graduating and preparing in inhealthcare roles, where are the
jobs?
They're in Northwest Arkansas.
(37:30):
So it it impacts the entirestate uh that the healthcare
education um, because thehealthcare uh runaway in in
Northwest Arkansas is um ispretty long, and there's a lot
more healthcare investmentthat's coming, uh particularly
in Benton County.
So all right, let's talk aboutthe future of education.
We know that um you knowartificial intelligence, you
(37:51):
know, will change education.
How do you think uh AI shouldchange education?
What are the conversations likein your administrative team
about the impact of AI?
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Um it's funny.
We have our cabinet next weekand it centers around AI.
SPEAKER_02 (38:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
We have to maintain human centric operations.
We're about humans.
We always have been, we alwayswill be.
Nothing rings truer than whenCOVID came.
Right before COVID, we had allthese big, I won't name them,
national companies that said uhcomputerized education will take
(38:29):
the place of teachers in theclassroom.
Never gonna happen.
Even with AI, that's never goingto happen, and we never want
that to happen.
We experienced what putting kidson computers full-time without
human interaction is duringCOVID.
And nationally, you sawperformance sink.
(38:49):
And that will be true.
Everyone is not created to workon a computer and learn that
way.
Some are, some are talented andcan do that.
So uh we will remain veryhuman-centered.
AI is definitely a tool that canspeed up our processes, that can
(39:13):
ease a lot of the simple jobsthat we do.
And we will talk about this asour cabinet, but our staff needs
to hear from us.
It's not cheating to use thistool that we've purchased, which
is an in-house tool.
We have policy present.
You do have to put safeguards inplace, which we have for kids,
(39:36):
but we have to start doing abetter job communicating.
For example, um, and we have itcolor-coded, red and green, like
it and yellow.
But if it's red, no AI.
This is completely independent.
And we do have to be consciousand communicate that.
Um, but there are some toolswhere it can be and you're smart
(39:57):
to use it.
Our kids will graduate beingexpected to know how to use all
the AI tools.
Um, in addition to that, ourkids will graduate and their
skills to create AI will beneeded.
And we had the uniqueopportunity to this summer to
run an AI camp.
(40:18):
And it was Stanford in MITinstructors.
They were PhD students andprofessors that came down.
Uh, we opened it for a hundredand I think 140 kids, and it was
filled.
SPEAKER_02 (40:35):
Full.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
It was full without a doubt.
And uh with the help of grant,it was a regional program again,
and it normally would have been$1,500 per student, but that was
paid with the help of a Waltongrant.
But the beauty was you walked inthat room, rooms, we held it in
Bentonville, and it was middleschool up.
(40:58):
And if you could see theengagement on the part of the
kids, it was so positive.
It was so engaging, they wereexcited, they were creating.
Now their professors looked likethey were 12 years old, but they
were magical because they knewAI very deeply.
(41:22):
They could answer questions andthey related things back from
which I even learned.
Um, I would have been in thefifth grade, the middle school
class at the beginning, but itwent all the way up to master's
level.
Our teachers, regional teachers,could be in the program.
We had about 48 teachers inthere, and they were in all
(41:44):
different stages as well.
Yeah.
And it was a beautiful thing tosee students learning alongside
teachers at the same level.
And that's how we have toapproach this because it's new.
And our brains work and learnsimilarly.
And so it's okay that you'relearning alongside the kids in
(42:06):
this process.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I'm sure that you don't you don't like for
optimism, but did thatexperience give you optimism
about this generation ofstudents even going down to the
the kindergarten level?
I mean, they're going to neednew skills that they that they
didn't need 20 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
I have never lacked an opt-optimism for students.
I'm telling you, they are sobright.
They are thirsty for advancedlearning.
They are generally healthierthan we are, they make better
choices than we do.
(42:42):
When I'm I'm talking about as Iwatch my 30-year-old kids, you
know, they'll get there.
They may not all be there as16-year-olds, but they're going
to get there.
But they are the foundation theyhave with education is just so
superb.
They'll be able to do all this.
Yeah.
I and when you talk about thehealthcare field, is I will
(43:05):
willingly go to any of ourgraduates in the medical field
today and have completeconfidence that they're going to
seek the right treatment for me.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
I have great confidence in that.
SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Sure.
Um, let's go back to when whatadvice would you give someone
today?
Let's say there's aneighth-grade English teacher at
Jacksonville Middle School orSheridan uh right now who wants
to go back to school, who wantsto go back for postgraduate uh
learning, who wants to growtheir leadership profile.
What advice would you givesomeone doing that at UCA today
(43:42):
who hopes to lead like you'releading one day?
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
First, I would look for all the opportunities in
education because there are manypeople, you're not all just
you're not a teacher.
Um, speech, behavioraltherapist.
There are so So many differentjobs within education.
So kind of um maybe shadow thosedifferent jobs and look for the
(44:07):
specialty that you want to umpursue.
If you don't know, just startsomewhere.
Start with administration.
That's what I did.
I had no clue what I wanted todo.
I really didn't.
But you find your way.
That's what I tell a lot of ourgraduates.
You have to start.
Don't linger so long trying tofind the perfect thing because
(44:30):
you won't begin as the boss.
And all of those experiencesalong the way are necessary to
be effective in any future roleyou have.
So wherever you are, if you'rein Jacksonville right now, live
in the moment, learn from thekids that you have, and then
(44:50):
pursue that education for thenext degree and keep pursuing
future opportunities as well asthey open up.
Look at all the opportunitiesthat are available because there
are a million.
And then don't be afraid to jumpinto that.
It might be a risk, but we'veall been told no in interviews.
(45:12):
And that's okay too.
SPEAKER_00 (45:14):
Yeah, it's, you know, go for a job, and
everybody's going to get told nofor a job, but uh, it's all part
of your experience that you canstack on top of one another.
We mentioned earlier in the showthat you know, school's right
around the corner, right?
You know, it is the summer afterall, and it's here.
And uh I would imagine the wayto be an effective leader is um
you've got to recharge in thesummer, right?
(45:35):
Have you had a good summer?
Have you been able to step awaya little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (45:38):
Yeah, I'm still in my Nantucket vibe.
So I had not been, but myhusband and I took a short
little trip to Nantucket, and itwas so peaceful and great
seafood and different beaches.
We just like to see differentcultures all over.
And so that was our littlegetaway this summer.
SPEAKER_00 (45:58):
Nantucket.
Okay.
When is the first day of school?
SPEAKER_01 (46:01):
I don't know.
Yeah.
I work all year long.
Um that's a that's a truequestion.
Yeah, it's in August.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
I think it's in August too.
Yeah, I I don't, I'm not awareof it either.
But I know for you, I mean,you're in school, like you say,
I mean, you're there's not afirst day, but how do you how
does the superintendent ofBentonville Schools spend the
first day of school?
Do you or do you try to movearound?
Are you in the admin office?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_01 (46:24):
All of our cabinet is they choose schools.
We break up all the schoolsbecause we have 24 different
schools and others.
We have all kinds of programsnow.
Um, and so we split up and we'reout there um on bus duty in the
morning.
The more schools you can hit andsee the faces and step foot into
(46:45):
a classroom and meet the newteachers.
And really, I never want to seeany of the staff intimidated.
Oh my gosh, that's asuperintendent, I better not
mess up.
I want them to say, see thatwe're there to support.
And if we see there's some placewe can step in, and uh so and
(47:05):
there will always be one or twothat are upset if we can step in
and support kids as they'releaving home for the first time,
that's what our job is.
And so we try to support all theschools all year long, but
especially as they're gettingall the kids in routines.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
You mentioned teachers and reminded me of a
question I wanted to get to.
Teacher recruitment andaffordable housing.
Those are not Bentonvilleissues, those are national
issues, those are those areissues different parts of the
country.
But why has why have you why hasthe district invested so much um
uh energy there for those twothings?
SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
It's because about it might be four years now, um,
during the summertime, that'swhen we do a lot of the hiring.
I started, there were threedifferent employees we hired
that took contracts hired by theboard and then had to turn
around and resign because ofhousing.
SPEAKER_02 (48:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
It was it it was shocking to me because generally
if you get a contract inBentonville, you're coming.
And so I we worked closely withthe accelerate, with the
Accelerate Foundation and Jeffat the time, and I'm like, I you
I don't know the answer to this,but we have a housing problem.
(48:24):
And so that that began adiscussion which we held over
eight months, and my CFO and myHR set the three of us sat down
together with Jeff and tried tocome up with a solution.
And we were all like, This iswe're never gonna get this.
This is never, let's just take achance.
Let's see if we could, could we?
(48:45):
And so um it was a long processthat became political as
everything does.
But uh we now are takingapplications for staff housing,
and they will move in fromAugust through, I mean through
October through December.
(49:06):
That's when they'll start movingin.
And they are we have 42-bedroomcottages, amazing location,
right in front of theBentonville Community Center,
right on bike trails, right nextto Mercy Clinic.
Two of the 40 cottages will beMercy Nuns that come over, which
(49:27):
is close to my heart because mymom worked at Mercy for 40
years.
After school, I would walk overand eat Jolly Ranchers at uh
until my mom got off work.
We'd walk in Fort Smith over toMercy, to the old one downtown.
And um, Sister Judith Mariewould always visit the family.
(49:48):
And so it's just, it's just kindof it's full circle for me.
SPEAKER_00 (49:52):
Well, and it's exciting um for me to when you
talk about that project, thehousing project.
You know, I I reported on thatwhen it was announced and uh
when I was at the businessjournal.
And I love because it's happeneda billion times up here, I love
when things are announced andthey put out the rendering and
this is what we're gonna do.
And then, you know, four, five,or eight or whatever years
(50:14):
later, it's happened.
It's exactly how to see it gofrom concept to the construction
to the opening and to see itcome to fruition is uh so
exciting.
But I'm sure you're a lot moreexcited about it than I am.
I am that's gonna be impactfulfor uh the district.
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
And when you go back to being human-centered, here's
what I'm most anxious to hear.
I want to hear the teacherstories.
Like I'm thinking of onepreschool teacher right now.
Every time we and we have staffchild care that we've started.
Yes, and it's there's a waitinglist.
It's amazing.
It's as cheap as we can do childcare, but it's an amazing
(50:50):
program.
It's brilliant.
And there's a teacher that's inour child care program that
would ask us all the time when'san application, when are we
going to open applications?
Because she needed moreaffordable care, um, housing.
Yeah.
And so I'm interested to hearthe personal stories, how their
families are able to get intothe program and live there, and
(51:13):
it helps their life becomeeasier to afford.
And that's the point.
So I can't wait to hear each oneof those stories as you move in.
SPEAKER_00 (51:24):
I know another, another great story um from
Bitonville School.
So uh Debbie, again, uh kept youalmost an hour.
I know that's a little bitlonger than I told you, but I
really appreciate you spendingtime with us.
It's been um truly made me kindof appreciate even more the uh
uh uh the the way that youapproach leadership and service
here at Bentonville.
So congratulations on all thatyou accomplished and really um
(51:46):
thank you for representing UCAas one of the state's uh uh
leaders in education andthroughout your career.
So uh hopefully this won't bethe last conversation we have.
SPEAKER_01 (51:56):
Oh well, thank UCA for helping build my path that I
could do this.
So I'm I'm education truly isthe foundation for everything
that you can do.
So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
Right.
Well, as the as again, as theson of public school educators,
I agree uh 100%.
So all right, that is all forthis edition of Central to NWA.
As always, we appreciate youtuning in.
Until next time, go bears.
That's it for this episode ofCentral to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm Paul Gatling, SeniorDirector of Northwest Arkansas
(52:30):
Engagement for the University ofCentral Arkansas.
Be sure to subscribe to the showand follow UCA on all the
appropriate social media.
I'll see you next time onCentral to NWA.
This is Central to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm your host, Paul Gatling, andwe are bringing the University
of Central Arkansas to NorthwestArkansas.
Each episode, we will talk withleaders, alumni, and innovators
driving this region forward.
People who are shapingindustries and defining what is
next for our state.
(00:22):
Let's get started.
All right, welcome back toanother episode of Central to
NWA, UCA podcast, where we haveconversations with UCA alumni,
business leaders, and people whoare helping shape all the
exciting things and the growthhappening in Northwest Arkansas
in terms of leadership,innovation, and education.
My guest today is somebody thatI've been looking forward to
(00:44):
meeting in person.
We've talked over the phone acouple of times, but today is
our first face-to-faceconversation.
She leads one of the largest andfastest growing school
districts, public schooldistricts in Arkansas, more than
20,000 students, about 2,500employees.
She's also a University ofCentral Arkansas alumna.
She earned her master's degreein educational administration.
(01:06):
And in 2025, she was namedArkansas Superintendent of the
Year.
Dr.
Debbie Jones is thesuperintendent of Bentonville
Schools.
Welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Oh, it's so great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
And good to meet you in person.
Yeah, you as well.
Now you're about to begin your11th year.
11th academic year inBentonville.
Wow.
Do you pinch yourself when yousee it when you hear that
sentence?
11 years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:28):
You know, it just flies.
I can't believe I've beensuperintendent going on my 11th
year.
Uh we moved from CentralArkansas, February 1, 2016.
And it has been such an amazingexperience.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Right.
And do you still get the uh uhfirst of school year?
Does that still excite you?
Do you still mark your calendarby the dates in the summertime?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
We're very much systematic in our thinking.
Um, and we're for myadministrative team right now.
We're very very busy.
We work all summer and it'sstrategic planning for the
upcoming year.
We start always in early Julywith our cabinet retreat where
we set focus goes, followed upby our administrator meeting
(02:15):
with all of our principals andassistant principals and
focusing for the next year.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
Yeah.
And so before you came up here,one of your stops, you and I
have talked about this, is whereyou and I have a small
connection.
We we both know Bryant prettywell.
Yes, we do.
I'm a Bryant high schoolgraduate, and you spent several
years there helping lead theschool district.
One year as principal, I think,and then um several years in the
administrative offices beforemaking your way to Northwest
(02:41):
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
I was in Bryant eight great years, great
experience.
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah.
Well, listen, I'm again excitedyou're here.
We're going to talk aboutBentonville schools and
education and leadership.
And um uh, but first let's talkabout um Charleston, Arkansas,
where you grew up, right?
Born in Fort Smith, but youmoved to Charleston uh at a
young age where you grew up inum, you know, a family that
maybe kind of set your pathtowards education, right?
(03:05):
Very much so.
Paint that picture for me.
What was it like?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Um my dad was a football coach, marketing
teacher in the summertime.
Some of my greatest memories, mysister and I would go to North
Side, we'd run the halls whilehe worked, we'd look in open
lockers, and so education's beenlifelong for me.
But uh we belled hay.
I got my tan on the tractor,raking hay, no joke.
(03:32):
And that's back in the day whenyou could be in the sun all day,
and the darker you got, thebetter.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Um we grew up playing three girls, we all
played sports, basketball,softball.
Dad was oftentimes a coach forus in summer sports and grew up
very competitive as a footballcoach would have it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
And uh they still, my parents are 84 and 85, still
have big gardens, lots of cowson the farm.
He's the difference now is thetractor is air conditioned.
It was not so much when I wasthere.
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
Right.
Love technology and theadvancements of technology on
the farm.
So you would consider beconsidered a farm girl.
I am a farm girl fromCharleston.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
Now, my dad, he always wants to talk politics
when I go home, I don't engage,and he calls me a city girl now.
But truly, the values that welearn from mom and dad.
And this is one thing that I'verealized throughout my adulthood
is we're still trying to makemom and dad proud.
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
I think that's that's universal.
You know, my my dad was a um uhpublic school administrator
retired.
My mother was um public schoolteacher retired.
Actually, she she taught, she isa UCA graduate.
Really?
Um, her senior year was the year67-68, the year they changed
from if I get this right, StateTeachers College of Arkansas to
(05:01):
State College of Arkansas, thenlater UCA.
But yeah, she took a job atMariana right out of UCA, and
then to Baldknob, and then toBryant, where she finished up.
She finished up the the bulk ofher career there at Bryant.
So a lot of what you said therejust resonated with me.
And probably like me, like you,I mean, your your parents,
especially your dad, probably isa football coach, probably kind
(05:23):
of shaped your view ofleadership.
Would that be an accurate thingto say?
SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Absolutely.
And um he's the one that saidyou'd make a good English
teacher.
Right.
And so that's why I pursuedEnglish.
But I tell you what, my mom, asfar as professional female,
there is not a more consummateprofessional than I saw in her
every day.
She was a chief administrator'sadmin, Sister Judith Marie at
(05:49):
Mercy in Fort Smith, and they'restill very close.
But she would put on hose andheels and a jacket every day.
She would work all day, comehome, cook dinner every single
night.
But she modeled just grace andum I guess emotional control and
(06:11):
leadership that I really havegreat respect for today.
SPEAKER_00 (06:16):
Yeah.
What was high school like foryou playing sports and growing
up with you?
Tell me what that was like.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Everything revolved around basketball.
It revolved around the sports,and that's why I have a true
appreciation for um whether it'sfine arts or whether it's
athletics, academics, or career.
A student has to have a majorinterest to get them engaged in
(06:44):
school.
And um I would say when we talkabout priorities in Bentonville
schools, three things.
And they're all, no one hasgreater priority than the other.
Athletics, fine arts, bands,orchestra, all the things, art
and academic.
And I very much keep those on anequal plane because you have to
(07:09):
get school kids engaged so thatthey want to be at school.
And there is an answer foreveryone.
There's a way to get at everystudent to get them there and
get them engaged and want to bethere.
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
How do you do that?
How do you tap into thosestudents?
How do you get them into engage?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
You have to offer a wide array of opportunities.
And you have to be very vocalabout telling the story.
Um, within each one of thoseprograms, you have to offer a
student a chance to lead, toshy, to participate.
They just have to find theircrew, their group of kids that
(07:49):
they feel comfortable with andthey want to be around.
And that's why I couldn't evenbegin to give you the number of
clubs we have at the schoolsnow.
Um, at one time, when uh wecounted them probably five or
six years ago at BHS, we hadover 50 different clubs kids
could join.
And that's not including all theother sports and fine arts and
(08:12):
opportunities.
SPEAKER_00 (08:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
And so there's a place for everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (08:16):
Did you have a good crew as a Charleston Lady Tiger
basketball player?
Pretty good teams in highschool.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:22):
We were always good.
SPEAKER_00 (08:23):
Yeah, Charleston's always got good high school
athletic programs.
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
We were.
I I wasn't as good as my littlesister who went on to play
college ball at SMU.
Uh, but I was always pointguard, and my older sister was
the post.
And so we we had the opportunityto play together throughout our
high school years.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:43):
Yep.
State tournament runs.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (08:45):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
Always.
Always.
SPEAKER_00 (08:48):
All right.
And so then you you attended theU of A University of Arkansas,
got married, spent a few yearsmoving around the country, but
eventually you found your wayback to Arkansas and into the
classroom, as you said, as anEnglish teacher.
Yes.
What did you love aboutteaching?
Being in the classroom.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
The most um memorable times were those times
that I could engage withstudents in discussing
literature.
That was the best.
And, you know, uh I taught atSheridan for several years under
Charles Tadlock.
That's where my dad's from.
Really loved it.
Sheridan, yeah.
Great experience at the juniorhigh.
And so in the spring, I wouldtake my eighth grade class
(09:27):
outside, and we read The Call ofthe Wild.
And students were engaged.
If you just create thisenvironment where they want to
be there, it was so much fun.
Yeah.
I have the best memories.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Yeah, I I've heard that name, Charles Tadlog.
You know, dad grew up inSheridan.
He and my uncles, they allplayed basketball.
They all played basketball incollege.
Dad moved back to Sheridan, youknow, later in life.
And uh still a lot of closefamily ties there in Sheridan.
My uncle still lives there.
Um, but that's you and I aretalking like this is Arkansas,
right?
There's so many small degrees ofseparation.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So Coach Tadlock taught me at Charleston,
Arkansas.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
And so when I was looking for a job, he was
principal of the junior high.
And so he taught me as a teacherhow to be a really good
evaluator.
Because when you would come inhis office, it was evaluation
time.
He'd always sit back and said,Well, you evaluate you.
How do you think you did thefirst?
You know, and that's one of thetoughest things to do.
(10:29):
But he was really very good andloved by his staff in Sheridan.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Yeah.
At what point did you uh realizethat you that you thought you
might want to influence morethan just, you know, the
students in your classroom thatyou might want to take on a
broader world?
SPEAKER_01 (10:45):
I've thought a lot about my path.
And it really has there was noone certain point.
It was always this internaldrive to an education.
What's next?
Okay.
So now that I have mybachelor's, now I need my
master's.
And so when the timing was rightwith children, with having
(11:05):
children, uh, then I would go onand pursue the next level.
Now, when I finished thatdoctorate, which was a long,
arduous process and tough to dowith three kids.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Because when I was at the baseball field with my
son, I was reading all thearticles and I wasn't really
sitting with other moms.
I was off in my little lawnchair trying to fit everything
in, which was tough.
And I thought that's it.
That's it for me.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:32):
On the doctorate.
SPEAKER_00 (11:33):
That's better to do that than live and die with
every pitch, I guess.
And develop the empires, like alot of the parents do.
Um, so yeah, you went back toschool, raising a young family,
earned your master's at UCA.
Um, what do you think UCA,looking back on it now, what do
you think UCA gave you thathelped you prepare for
leadership and to kind of startyour leadership path?
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
It really helped me build a network.
Um, getting to know peoplewithin education.
It helped me get verycomfortable with at that point
learning what a goodinstructional classroom looked
like, what a good teacher does.
I still remember some of theactivities that we did that I
practiced as a teacher.
(12:14):
And then from that, learning howto really evaluate what I'm
looking for in a strong academicclassroom.
And it's not about the teaching,it's really about the learning,
which is two totally differentthings.
And so I think that drives somuch of what we do in education
today with the cabinet, with thestandards that we set in
(12:38):
Bitonville schools.
It's our kids learning at thepace we expect them to learn.
And so, really, my foundationalunderstanding in education was
built at UCA.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Good.
Good.
Great to hear that.
And that started your uh careertrajectory into administration,
uh uh Little Rock Mills,Jacksonville, middle school
principal, high school, uhPlaski County, and then on to
Bryant.
What did those earlyadministrative roles um know?
I'm sure those were not theeasiest of jobs.
No, they were not back then.
(13:11):
What did that teach you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
So many things inside and outside the
classroom.
I will tell you that when I wasin Pulaski County and I was
there 10 years, it was during anera of union, and that was a new
experience coming fromCharleston, Arkansas.
And so many times I would serveas a teacher, I was approached
(13:37):
about joining the union.
Um, and then I served on theadministrative side,
negotiations teams, and allthat.
It was, it became, you just getto see the real world and the
whole politics of the situation.
But um I learned um how to dealwith diverse groups.
(13:58):
I learned how to be anadministrator with high poverty
schools, specifically when I wasat Jacksonville Middle School,
and I had about 700 studentsthere.
Some of my best memories werebuilt there.
And it was you dealt with a lotof crisis situations.
(14:20):
I dealt with the police a lot, Idealt with families a lot.
Um, I remember this is kind of afunny story, walking in the
office, and it was you'rescrambling as fast as you can
go, as your assistant principalsare all day long.
Walking in the office, and I hada grandpa waiting there, and
(14:41):
he's like, Um, yeah, are youready?
I've got fish to fry.
And I said, Well, you just warmup that oil, and I'll be with
you as soon as I can get withyou.
You know, you just learn how todeal with the public and how to
be professional and relate todifferent cultures in such a
respectful and appreciative way.
(15:02):
And thank goodness for thevariety of cultures and all the
experiences.
I loved that.
One of my best presents of allthe years was a little brooch
that I a student brought me.
I worked with him quite a bit,had some of the stones missing.
Oh, but it was the gift.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
You know, it's the thought that he wants to give me
something for Christmas.
And that's a memory that I willalways have.
SPEAKER_00 (15:29):
Right.
Well, there's another story.
Um, I read the story earlier inyour career at Jacksonville.
You were visiting the home ofwhat you describe as a brilliant
student, you and one of yourcounselors, um, living in
extreme poverty.
Can you share that story?
SPEAKER_01 (15:44):
I can.
And that counselor was JosieNoble, who was an amazing short
little counselor, but fiery.
And that was when I was atJacksonville Middle.
And when we entered school, shewas quick to tell me, okay, we
have this sixth grader.
And she has been retained, butlook at the standardized test
(16:07):
score.
And she was above the N throughthe roof.
But she hadn't been retainedbecause of performance.
It was because of lack ofattendance.
And then when we visited thehome and we drove up to this
trailer, and there were thesegroup of characters on the
trailer next to us and said, Youdon't want to be, you don't want
(16:29):
to go in that home.
You don't want to approach that.
Um, y'all need to get back inyour car and leave.
And I remember Josie and I,Josie's like, oh, should we?
I'm like, we should.
Let's do we'll be fine.
And that's the country in me.
I was probably naive and didn'tknow we're gonna be just fine.
And so approached the door, andyou could hear dogs barking.
(16:52):
You knew someone was in thereand knocking.
And I'm like, is there someonein here?
And they said, Yeah, there'ssomeone.
So eventually they did answerthe door.
And um, this little girl, it wasthat you could smell all the
animals in the home, but she hadfought having lice so large
sitting across from her.
I could see them crawling.
(17:14):
And so Josie and I just said, Wewill shower you at school every
day, we will get you thesupplies you need, but you have
to get here.
Um, we worked with DHS and whatI've realized through education
and all of the departments, noone's coming to save you.
(17:36):
As an educator, no one is comingto save you.
It's you have to take the reins,you have to do what you have to
do to save kids.
And Josie, and I wonder everyday where that brilliant girl
is.
I wonder where she is.
And I expect that she rose aboveall the circumstances with which
(17:58):
she had to live.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
How did that experience um impact or maybe
even forge your philosophy ofeducation?
SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
And it just makes your backbone stronger.
It's like, you know, that factthat you have to do everything
you can for students, um,especially when they want
better, when they're willing todo it themselves and they didn't
ask for those circumstances.
Um, we have to be it's incumbentupon educators.
(18:29):
It is our moral obligation to doeverything we can.
They're they're begging forsomeone.
So um truly, education is anoble profession.
I know you've heard people don'tdo it for the money, but you
have to listen to that callinginside.
(18:51):
And that's the people that weemploy, they have that.
And of all my experience, uh,when I came to Bryant after, you
know, Pulaski County, I learnedthe master contract, which was
so confusing.
When you leave a unionizedmaster contract, I was very
confused.
What's the law?
(19:11):
What's master contract inBryant?
And uh in Bryant, I'm like, Ilearned what the law was.
And then when I moved toBentonville and started working,
of course, I was at thedepartment for a couple of
years, but when I moved toBryant, I was so shocked at the
lengths that teachers go to, thehours that they work, and there
(19:34):
is no end time for them.
It's like they have they dowhatever they have to do to win
the state championship, to winthe cross-country state tra
championship, to get the childto read.
Whatever it takes is whatthey're willing to do.
And that's basically in anutshell what an educator has to
(19:58):
be.
You have to do whatever it takesfor whatever the need is.
SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
It's a lifestyle.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
And it's a it's a very big commitment.
SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Like like I said, I my mothertaught for 33 years, and um and
you know, small Brian was smallback then, you know, consider
compared to today.
But um, yeah, I and I'm reallyglad going back to the moral
obligation.
Um, I'm so glad you said thatbecause that's what I was
thinking.
And in terms of there are somany things that you have to do.
(20:28):
You have to be in school Xamount of days, you have to
teach this, you have to havebenchmark scores, all of those
things that are black and white,but there's also the moral
obligation to care uh for thewhole child.
And that story, I think,perfectly illustrates that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Right.
All of those state compliantrequirement things that you have
to do, that's such a small partof what a real teacher really
does.
Um, and it's it's the worry thatthey have over kids.
It's the constant obligation inyour mind, like I should be
(21:06):
working on lesson plans or Ishould be reading essays.
No one tells you about thethings in your head that
continue long after the 430dismissal.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Which of those we've ran them down, you know,
Jacksonville, Plasky County,Bryant, uh Department of
Education, which of those stopsdo you think um um impacted your
career the most at the time?
I'm sure they all did at thetime, uh, but is there one spot
uh that maybe stands out morethan than another?
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
I think so.
Um probably Bryant, because whenI went into Bryant, I was first
the principal.
And honestly, I expected just tostay principal, just to be
principal until all my kidsgraduated from high school.
And Dr.
Abernathy called and said,Debbie, you haven't applied for
this deputy superintendent, thisassistant superintendent job
(21:58):
yet.
And I'm like, I know, I justgot.
Here.
He said, no, come interview andapply for this job.
And I'd finished up mydissertation on the effects of
lead certified buildings, whichwas Bethel.
It was the first in the state.
And I took on that job.
And the strength was that job isthat we only had two assistant
(22:20):
superintendents.
It was HR.
And then I did all the academicK312.
I learned from really amazingspecialists who told me I didn't
know anything about elementary,Sandy Shepard.
And I didn't, but she was veryrude about it.
So she got my attention.
(22:42):
And so I learned so much in thatrole, but in learning all the
different rows from GT to ALE tospecial ed to 504.
And there's a massive amount oflearning.
I also gained the confidencethat yes, I can do this.
SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
You gained that confidence and um you gained the
attention of uh Mike Poor inBiddenville, right?
So eventually that led you.
That that career path in Bryantsounds remarkably similar to
what it was in Biddenville.
The next thing you know, you'regoing from here to here, right?
So what attracted you toBittenville?
What are the circumstances thatgot you to Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Well, okay, I told you I was competitive.
And so every year I would standin front of the Bryant school
board and I would look at ourcompetitors in the state, and I
still remember the bar graph onperformance.
And we're like that Bittenville,they keep feeding us.
Right.
Um, and so that was always ourgoal to get to really outachie
(23:43):
them.
And so that's how I first metMike.
I'm like, what are y'all doingthat we're not doing?
Because I was big on stealingfrom others, and so we brought a
team um to Bryant, and fromthat, PLC's professional
learning communities began inBryant, and we also uh came up
(24:05):
to Bentonville to learn aboutmastery math.
We took it back.
Um, and so really out the areamy sister lived in northwest
Arkansas at the time, and I justloved northwest Arkansas.
I loved the mountains, I lovedthe razor bags.
Yeah, I graduated from U of Aand my bachelor's, and I just
(24:28):
wanted to kind of get back toNorthwest Arkansas.
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Do you ride bikes?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yeah.
Not mountain bikes.
Not mountain bikes, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
I don't want to break uh an ankle or a an elk
collarbone, all the things thatyou must break, but I'm not a
mountain biker.
I would be if I were younger,probably.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah, we you and I are in the minority.
I'm not a mountain biker either.
And but everybody, it seems, inBentonville is a mountain biker.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
We like to bike.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
I like to do yoga, that's gonna be a lifelong
commitment for me.
SPEAKER_00 (25:00):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
And I play with grandbabies.
That's what we do.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
So February 2016, you begin as assistant
superintendent, and then uhMichael Poor, about three months
later, takes a job as the LittleRock School Superintendent.
And so you become interimsuperintendent.
Um, what was going through yourmind in those three or four
months?
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
In three or four months, I was like, oh, I'm just
I'm so thankful to be here.
I honestly had been at theDepartment of Ed as assistant
commissioner, and so I'd had theexperience of working during the
legislative season, and I wantedto just get politics out of my
life.
And so moved up here, and Ithought I'm just gonna keep my
(25:48):
head down, do my job, have thispiece, not do politics.
I did not apply for thesuperintendent's job.
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
Why not?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Because I wanted to avoid politics, I didn't want to
get in a rat race and try toearn a job necessarily.
I didn't want to politic for ajob.
I just wanted to do my job andbe at peace.
And so I just did thatthroughout the summer.
I knew I could do the job.
I was actually the day I wasoffered the job, I had met with
(26:22):
our Monday morning leadership inthe city and set up two
appointments for the twonational finalists that the
board would name that night.
We went to the board meeting.
Um, Travis Riggs, the boardpresident, came out and said, We
want to offer you the job.
And will you take it?
(26:44):
And I said, Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (26:47):
That was your reaction.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Yes, yes, yes, okay.
I knew I could do the job.
I honestly did not think thatwas going to happen.
I didn't, um, I did not plan forthat at all.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
And uh he said, Well, you probably want to call
home because as soon as weannounce it's gonna go live on
Twitter.
SPEAKER_02 (27:06):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (27:07):
And so I called home and uh my son said, Mom, he was
home from college.
I thought you were, I said, Iwasn't, I'll explain when I get
home.
And so from then on, it's beenjust trying to keep up with the
pace of life in Bitonville.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Yeah.
Well, and I was reading, I wasgoing back and reading some
reporting about that time 10years ago.
It was 10 years ago this month,uh, July 2016, to your point.
I mean, there was they talked tothere were several hundred
people who were contacted, andso many people interviewed, and
so many, and none of hardly anyof them were from Arkansas.
They're just there were it was anational search.
(27:44):
And so when you get that thatmessage from Travis, um, that
we've we've seen all thesepeople, we've talked to all
these people.
I I guess the point I'm tryingto make is because you said you
didn't, you knew you could doit, but you you weren't
interested in it.
What did that teach you about uhjust confidence and leadership
and knowing that uh I can dothis?
SPEAKER_01 (28:05):
And I have said this many times at women's
conferences when I've giventalks.
Um, you know, the moment I saidyes, it hit me.
I knew I could do this job.
Why did I not just put my namein the hat?
And I feel like we've done areally good job um in building
(28:27):
an amazing cabinet team.
It's just that, as I tellleaders today, if you think
there's an interest in the job,be introspective about it and go
for the jobs that you want tohold.
And um, I would have been happyas assistant superintendent.
(28:47):
I could have easily worked foranyone they had chosen.
But I knew I could do the jobwell too.
And so part of me, it's advicefrom I don't know that it was a
mistake because it worked outwell, but that's rare that that
happens.
Put your name out there, applyfor jobs.
SPEAKER_00 (29:07):
Okay, so yeah, in six months, you go from
assistant superintendent,interim superintendent,
full-time superintendent, andnow here we are 10 years later,
10-year anniversary as thesuperintendent and one of the
most um high performing schooldistricts in Arkansas, not just
the largest, not just the most,but very high performing, very
nationally recognized.
How do you keep a district thatis growing as fast as
(29:30):
Bentonville is?
How do you maintain that cultureof high performance and that
profile of high performance?
SPEAKER_01 (29:37):
It's very intentional.
It does not happen by accident.
Um, number one, you have tobuild an amazing leadership
team.
And it doesn't mean they're allthe same.
It it I try to be conscious.
I'm not trying to hire peoplelike me or people that agree
with me all the time.
But on our cabinet team, we havedriven people who have high
(30:02):
standards, a lot of top A.
So you can imagine what some ofour cabinet meetings are like.
Sometimes they're very strictly,yeah.
They are.
But they're it's high qualityand they take ownership.
And I'm very conscious abouttrying to stay within my lane
and let them have the ownershipof their areas.
(30:25):
Um, but also this, you know, inthe first couple of years I had
the job, my thinking wasBentonville has always been
excellent.
They're known for theexcellence, just don't screw it
up.
SPEAKER_00 (30:37):
Yeah.
It's a high bar.
SPEAKER_01 (30:39):
It's a high bar.
And that's a scary place toenter, too.
And so um, when I entered, I wasnot as willing to make uh
somewhat risky or aggressivemoves.
We did everything the same.
And what I mean by that, as we'dopen another elementary school,
(31:00):
it was given the same as all theother schools, the same staff,
the same programs.
Um that's very that's changed inthe last five years.
We've made more robust steps.
And I will say it's in a veryintentional effort to provide
specialized parent choiceschools.
(31:21):
When we opened theInternational, for example, it
was Mary Mae Jones.
Um, we had space for about 300students, and that's a lot of
space in one of our schoolsbecause we have all of these
open spaces in downtownelementary schools where the
district began, but our borderschools are full.
(31:45):
And so we had we wanted toattract rather than force people
to downtown schools, we wantedparents to choose if they're
working in downtown to bringtheir kids downtown or we would
transport.
And so with uh theinternational, and we went
through a process, long process,but they could choose what
(32:08):
special identification, and theychose international
baccalaureate, which means it'smore of a multicultural worldly
view of education that uhstudents learn how to solve
problems of the world together,working together.
They have two languages all theway up, and so they're full
(32:30):
today, and it was a very shorttime period that they have
filled.
They can go from IB atelementary to IB at Ruth Barker
to IB at Washington Junior High,and then they'll finish at BHS.
So we have a K-12 IB program,which is exceptional.
SPEAKER_00 (32:50):
Okay, and it sounds like you mentioned full.
Everything is full, it seemslike in the Bentonville schools
when you start them, like youstarted this program and it was
full.
The response was was immediate.
So school choice, uh parentparental choice, and zoning and
those issues, it sounds likethose dominate a lot of your
time.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
They do.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
What are the other critical issues that that maybe
keep you awake at night or thatyou spend most of your time on?
SPEAKER_01 (33:14):
You know, and sometimes it's good problems I
wake up trying to solve, but thesuperintendency is a restless
job.
Um, when you wake up at two andthink, and you're solving
problems, that's that's when Isolve all my problems.
Uh, for example, you might haveheard this was a really big year
for us.
(33:34):
Um, Alice Walton visited ourIgnaT professional studies
program.
It truly is a program, andnationally we've what we've
looked at professional programs,and I don't see a program that
surpasses this one.
It's very unique.
Um, but she visited thefoundation had supported IGNAT
(33:58):
since the beginning 10 yearsago, and with equipment.
And so she had heard the goodresults because when you take a
grant from the WaltonFoundation, you also provide
really good data regularly.
Um, and they had brought in thenumber of certificates, a high
(34:19):
performance, the good responsefrom all of our business
partners.
And so she walked through andsat down with principal Jessica
Emble and some of the leadershipand said, uh, this is a
marvelous program.
What can we do to continue this?
(34:39):
And I said, we want to give us,give our kids the opportunity to
learn alongside the doctors andthe nurses and all the employees
in the new Bentonvillehealthcare campus we hear you
might be building.
SPEAKER_02 (34:54):
Yeah, more space.
SPEAKER_01 (34:55):
Yeah.
And well, it was really thehardest, the biggest challenge
in running a program like thatis giving kids the network, the
internship.
And that's what we went for.
It's like, will you give ourkids this opportunity?
Build it in as you build ahospital.
And she said, How about I justbuild you a building on the
(35:15):
campus?
And I'm like, We'll take floor.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:22):
You know, and it's so expensive to build.
SPEAKER_00 (35:25):
Yeah.
It's essentially a third highschool.
It was she's doing it it is.
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
In fact, we had in 2030, because of growth, we
would have to open, we'd have tobuild a professional studies
high school.
And we had already looked at allthe opportunities.
What can we do?
And that was really what wecould do that was most
affordable.
And we wouldn't rebuild all theathletic programs.
We would pull kids off.
(35:51):
And so that would open in 2030.
And what she did, and she said,it has to be a regional program
because you have to provide thisother opportunity, this
opportunity for other districtsin the region.
And we said we can do that.
And it will open with a capacityof eventually 1,500 kids.
And it does take the place ofthat high school.
(36:13):
And we will include otherregions within the program, and
it will be an Igna program.
SPEAKER_00 (36:19):
And that opens when on track of 2029, 2029.
Wow.
Yeah, I I I think um obviouslythat's been reported and people
are talking about, but I don't Idon't think the impact of that
is is fully understood uh aboutwhat that's going to do for um,
you know, you mentionedBentonville, but also, you know,
P Ridge and and Gravit and someother school districts around
Benton County, uh, of what thatexpanded site is going to do.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
I I think it's gonna have a massive impact on the
state and the regional statesbecause as I grow older and I
see the need for specialists inthe area, that's the point is
bringing high-qualityspecialists to our Arkansas and
having it in our back door is agift, if especially if you have
(37:06):
the opportunity to live in thisregion.
SPEAKER_00 (37:09):
Yeah, and we we think about it in those terms um
through the UCA lens of youknow, about a little under 20%
of all of our students are onsome sort of health care related
degree path.
So in our in our mind, I meanthe the the students that were
graduating and preparing in inhealthcare roles, where are the
jobs?
They're in Northwest Arkansas.
(37:30):
So it it impacts the entirestate uh that the healthcare
education um, because thehealthcare uh runaway in in
Northwest Arkansas is um ispretty long, and there's a lot
more healthcare investmentthat's coming, uh particularly
in Benton County.
So all right, let's talk aboutthe future of education.
We know that um you knowartificial intelligence, you
(37:51):
know, will change education.
How do you think uh AI shouldchange education?
What are the conversations likein your administrative team
about the impact of AI?
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Um it's funny.
We have our cabinet next weekand it centers around AI.
SPEAKER_02 (38:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
We have to maintain human centric operations.
We're about humans.
We always have been, we alwayswill be.
Nothing rings truer than whenCOVID came.
Right before COVID, we had allthese big, I won't name them,
national companies that said uhcomputerized education will take
(38:29):
the place of teachers in theclassroom.
Never gonna happen.
Even with AI, that's never goingto happen, and we never want
that to happen.
We experienced what putting kidson computers full-time without
human interaction is duringCOVID.
And nationally, you sawperformance sink.
(38:49):
And that will be true.
Everyone is not created to workon a computer and learn that
way.
Some are, some are talented andcan do that.
So uh we will remain veryhuman-centered.
AI is definitely a tool that canspeed up our processes, that can
(39:13):
ease a lot of the simple jobsthat we do.
And we will talk about this asour cabinet, but our staff needs
to hear from us.
It's not cheating to use thistool that we've purchased, which
is an in-house tool.
We have policy present.
You do have to put safeguards inplace, which we have for kids,
(39:36):
but we have to start doing abetter job communicating.
For example, um, and we have itcolor-coded, red and green, like
it and yellow.
But if it's red, no AI.
This is completely independent.
And we do have to be consciousand communicate that.
Um, but there are some toolswhere it can be and you're smart
(39:57):
to use it.
Our kids will graduate beingexpected to know how to use all
the AI tools.
Um, in addition to that, ourkids will graduate and their
skills to create AI will beneeded.
And we had the uniqueopportunity to this summer to
run an AI camp.
(40:18):
And it was Stanford in MITinstructors.
They were PhD students andprofessors that came down.
Uh, we opened it for a hundredand I think 140 kids, and it was
filled.
SPEAKER_02 (40:35):
Full.
SPEAKER_01 (40:36):
It was full without a doubt.
And uh with the help of grant,it was a regional program again,
and it normally would have been$1,500 per student, but that was
paid with the help of a Waltongrant.
But the beauty was you walked inthat room, rooms, we held it in
Bentonville, and it was middleschool up.
(40:58):
And if you could see theengagement on the part of the
kids, it was so positive.
It was so engaging, they wereexcited, they were creating.
Now their professors looked likethey were 12 years old, but they
were magical because they knewAI very deeply.
(41:22):
They could answer questions andthey related things back from
which I even learned.
Um, I would have been in thefifth grade, the middle school
class at the beginning, but itwent all the way up to master's
level.
Our teachers, regional teachers,could be in the program.
We had about 48 teachers inthere, and they were in all
(41:44):
different stages as well.
Yeah.
And it was a beautiful thing tosee students learning alongside
teachers at the same level.
And that's how we have toapproach this because it's new.
And our brains work and learnsimilarly.
And so it's okay that you'relearning alongside the kids in
(42:06):
this process.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I'm sure that you don't you don't like for
optimism, but did thatexperience give you optimism
about this generation ofstudents even going down to the
the kindergarten level?
I mean, they're going to neednew skills that they that they
didn't need 20 years ago.
SPEAKER_01 (42:22):
I have never lacked an opt-optimism for students.
I'm telling you, they are sobright.
They are thirsty for advancedlearning.
They are generally healthierthan we are, they make better
choices than we do.
(42:42):
When I'm I'm talking about as Iwatch my 30-year-old kids, you
know, they'll get there.
They may not all be there as16-year-olds, but they're going
to get there.
But they are the foundation theyhave with education is just so
superb.
They'll be able to do all this.
Yeah.
I and when you talk about thehealthcare field, is I will
(43:05):
willingly go to any of ourgraduates in the medical field
today and have completeconfidence that they're going to
seek the right treatment for me.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:16):
I have great confidence in that.
SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
Sure.
Um, let's go back to when whatadvice would you give someone
today?
Let's say there's aneighth-grade English teacher at
Jacksonville Middle School orSheridan uh right now who wants
to go back to school, who wantsto go back for postgraduate uh
learning, who wants to growtheir leadership profile.
What advice would you givesomeone doing that at UCA today
(43:42):
who hopes to lead like you'releading one day?
SPEAKER_01 (43:45):
First, I would look for all the opportunities in
education because there are manypeople, you're not all just
you're not a teacher.
Um, speech, behavioraltherapist.
There are so So many differentjobs within education.
So kind of um maybe shadow thosedifferent jobs and look for the
(44:07):
specialty that you want to umpursue.
If you don't know, just startsomewhere.
Start with administration.
That's what I did.
I had no clue what I wanted todo.
I really didn't.
But you find your way.
That's what I tell a lot of ourgraduates.
You have to start.
Don't linger so long trying tofind the perfect thing because
(44:30):
you won't begin as the boss.
And all of those experiencesalong the way are necessary to
be effective in any future roleyou have.
So wherever you are, if you'rein Jacksonville right now, live
in the moment, learn from thekids that you have, and then
(44:50):
pursue that education for thenext degree and keep pursuing
future opportunities as well asthey open up.
Look at all the opportunitiesthat are available because there
are a million.
And then don't be afraid to jumpinto that.
It might be a risk, but we'veall been told no in interviews.
(45:12):
And that's okay too.
SPEAKER_00 (45:14):
Yeah, it's, you know, go for a job, and
everybody's going to get told nofor a job, but uh, it's all part
of your experience that you canstack on top of one another.
We mentioned earlier in the showthat you know, school's right
around the corner, right?
You know, it is the summer afterall, and it's here.
And uh I would imagine the wayto be an effective leader is um
you've got to recharge in thesummer, right?
(45:35):
Have you had a good summer?
Have you been able to step awaya little bit?
SPEAKER_01 (45:38):
Yeah, I'm still in my Nantucket vibe.
So I had not been, but myhusband and I took a short
little trip to Nantucket, and itwas so peaceful and great
seafood and different beaches.
We just like to see differentcultures all over.
And so that was our littlegetaway this summer.
SPEAKER_00 (45:58):
Nantucket.
Okay.
When is the first day of school?
SPEAKER_01 (46:01):
I don't know.
Yeah.
I work all year long.
Um that's a that's a truequestion.
Yeah, it's in August.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
I think it's in August too.
Yeah, I I don't, I'm not awareof it either.
But I know for you, I mean,you're in school, like you say,
I mean, you're there's not afirst day, but how do you how
does the superintendent ofBentonville Schools spend the
first day of school?
Do you or do you try to movearound?
Are you in the admin office?
What does it look like?
SPEAKER_01 (46:24):
All of our cabinet is they choose schools.
We break up all the schoolsbecause we have 24 different
schools and others.
We have all kinds of programsnow.
Um, and so we split up and we'reout there um on bus duty in the
morning.
The more schools you can hit andsee the faces and step foot into
(46:45):
a classroom and meet the newteachers.
And really, I never want to seeany of the staff intimidated.
Oh my gosh, that's asuperintendent, I better not
mess up.
I want them to say, see thatwe're there to support.
And if we see there's some placewe can step in, and uh so and
(47:05):
there will always be one or twothat are upset if we can step in
and support kids as they'releaving home for the first time,
that's what our job is.
And so we try to support all theschools all year long, but
especially as they're gettingall the kids in routines.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
You mentioned teachers and reminded me of a
question I wanted to get to.
Teacher recruitment andaffordable housing.
Those are not Bentonvilleissues, those are national
issues, those are those areissues different parts of the
country.
But why has why have you why hasthe district invested so much um
uh energy there for those twothings?
SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
It's because about it might be four years now, um,
during the summertime, that'swhen we do a lot of the hiring.
I started, there were threedifferent employees we hired
that took contracts hired by theboard and then had to turn
around and resign because ofhousing.
SPEAKER_02 (48:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:02):
It was it it was shocking to me because generally
if you get a contract inBentonville, you're coming.
And so I we worked closely withthe accelerate, with the
Accelerate Foundation and Jeffat the time, and I'm like, I you
I don't know the answer to this,but we have a housing problem.
(48:24):
And so that that began adiscussion which we held over
eight months, and my CFO and myHR set the three of us sat down
together with Jeff and tried tocome up with a solution.
And we were all like, This iswe're never gonna get this.
This is never, let's just take achance.
Let's see if we could, could we?
(48:45):
And so um it was a long processthat became political as
everything does.
But uh we now are takingapplications for staff housing,
and they will move in fromAugust through, I mean through
October through December.
(49:06):
That's when they'll start movingin.
And they are we have 42-bedroomcottages, amazing location,
right in front of theBentonville Community Center,
right on bike trails, right nextto Mercy Clinic.
Two of the 40 cottages will beMercy Nuns that come over, which
(49:27):
is close to my heart because mymom worked at Mercy for 40
years.
After school, I would walk overand eat Jolly Ranchers at uh
until my mom got off work.
We'd walk in Fort Smith over toMercy, to the old one downtown.
And um, Sister Judith Mariewould always visit the family.
(49:48):
And so it's just, it's just kindof it's full circle for me.
SPEAKER_00 (49:52):
Well, and it's exciting um for me to when you
talk about that project, thehousing project.
You know, I I reported on thatwhen it was announced and uh
when I was at the businessjournal.
And I love because it's happeneda billion times up here, I love
when things are announced andthey put out the rendering and
this is what we're gonna do.
And then, you know, four, five,or eight or whatever years
(50:14):
later, it's happened.
It's exactly how to see it gofrom concept to the construction
to the opening and to see itcome to fruition is uh so
exciting.
But I'm sure you're a lot moreexcited about it than I am.
I am that's gonna be impactfulfor uh the district.
SPEAKER_01 (50:29):
And when you go back to being human-centered, here's
what I'm most anxious to hear.
I want to hear the teacherstories.
Like I'm thinking of onepreschool teacher right now.
Every time we and we have staffchild care that we've started.
Yes, and it's there's a waitinglist.
It's amazing.
It's as cheap as we can do childcare, but it's an amazing
(50:50):
program.
It's brilliant.
And there's a teacher that's inour child care program that
would ask us all the time when'san application, when are we
going to open applications?
Because she needed moreaffordable care, um, housing.
Yeah.
And so I'm interested to hearthe personal stories, how their
families are able to get intothe program and live there, and
(51:13):
it helps their life becomeeasier to afford.
And that's the point.
So I can't wait to hear each oneof those stories as you move in.
SPEAKER_00 (51:24):
I know another, another great story um from
Bitonville School.
So uh Debbie, again, uh kept youalmost an hour.
I know that's a little bitlonger than I told you, but I
really appreciate you spendingtime with us.
It's been um truly made me kindof appreciate even more the uh
uh uh the the way that youapproach leadership and service
here at Bentonville.
So congratulations on all thatyou accomplished and really um
(51:46):
thank you for representing UCAas one of the state's uh uh
leaders in education andthroughout your career.
So uh hopefully this won't bethe last conversation we have.
SPEAKER_01 (51:56):
Oh well, thank UCA for helping build my path that I
could do this.
So I'm I'm education truly isthe foundation for everything
that you can do.
So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00 (52:07):
Right.
Well, as the as again, as theson of public school educators,
I agree uh 100%.
So all right, that is all forthis edition of Central to NWA.
As always, we appreciate youtuning in.
Until next time, go bears.
That's it for this episode ofCentral to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm Paul Gatling, SeniorDirector of Northwest Arkansas
(52:30):
Engagement for the University ofCentral Arkansas.
Be sure to subscribe to the showand follow UCA on all the
appropriate social media.
I'll see you next time onCentral to NWA.
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