March 3, 2026 • 46 mins
What if the places we love aren’t accidents, but the result of clear choices about streets, water, parks, and where capital flows? We sit down with Wes Craiglow, executive director of ULI Northwest Arkansas and UCA alum, to unpack how our built environment silently shapes daily life: where we live, how we move, what we can afford, and the bonds we form with neighbors. Wes draws on his years as a Conway city planner and a 25-year Army career to explain why smart growth requires a long horizon and a steady hand.
We explore the Urban Land Institute’s role as a neutral convener, bringing together public officials, private developers, utility leaders, academics, and citizens to solve complex problems. Wes makes the case for regional collaboration in a polycentric metro, where decisions about infrastructure, zoning, and tax base ripple across city lines. He introduces the “Northwest Arkansas Promise”: a life where access to great schools, jobs, trails, arts, and daily amenities sits close to home at a price families can manage. Keeping that promise, he argues, depends on building infrastructure before rooftops, ensuring predictable entitlements, and helping fast-growing small cities develop distinct identities and stable sales-tax bases.
From housing mix and affordability to stormwater and mobility, we connect the dots between policy and lived experience. Wes challenges us to avoid a future of copy-paste suburbs by investing in planning capacity and main streets that feel unique and resilient. Along the way, he shares why bicycling, family life in Fayetteville, and an outdoor ethic keep him grounded in the region he serves.
If you care about how Northwest Arkansas grows; on purpose, not by accident, this conversation offers a practical roadmap and a hopeful vision. Subscribe, share with a neighbor, and leave a review with the one investment you believe would safeguard the promise for the next generation.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
This is Central to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm your host, Paul Gatling, andwe are bringing the University
of Central Arkansas to NorthwestArkansas.
Each episode, we will talk withleaders, alumni, and innovators
driving this region forward.
People who are shapingindustries and defining what is
next for our state.
(00:22):
Let's get started.
All right, we're back withanother episode of Central to
NWA, the UCA podcast.
Paul Gatling here with you.
And my guest today is right inthe middle of all the
conversations that we're havingin Northwest Arkansas right now
about growth and long-termthinking and regional
development.
And that man is Wes Creglo.
He's executive director of theNorthwest Arkansas chapter of
(00:42):
the Urban Land Institute.
He has a lot of greatperspectives that we're going to
get into.
UCA alum, I think a couple ofdegrees from UCA, right?
Army veteran, former cityplanner in Conway, a paid fly
fishing guy for a while.
So yeah, a lot to get intothere.
Wes, it's great to see you.
Thanks for being on the pod.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
You got it.
Thanks for having me, Paul.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah.
So uh let's just start at a veryhigh level when somebody asks
you, uh Urban Land Institute,what is that?
What do you do?
What is the Urban Land Institutehere for?
Great question.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
So ULI is about a 90-year-old nonprofit member
association.
Uh, we have a member network ofabout 50,000 and over 50
chapters.
We call them district councils.
Okay.
Uh we have 50 district councils,uh, more, more so, in fact,
around the U.S.
and offices, in fact, inAustralia, Europe, and and um,
and Asia.
Fundamentally, the mission ofULI is to uh improve, to advance
(01:37):
best practices in the builtenvironment.
Uh we believe at ULI that thatuh an improved quality of place
directly influences an improvedquality of life.
And that means different thingsto different cities.
So there's no one size fits allsolution.
And that's why we have thisdecentralized model with
district councils supportingvarious metros throughout the
country.
We serve as a uhcross-disciplinary convener.
(02:00):
What I mean by that is you lookat our member network, and
you're not going to see just onediscipline, one trade
association.
You're gonna see everybodyassociated with helping a region
grow (02:09):
public sector, private sector, academia, nonprofiteers
from every possible disciplineyou can think of.
If you are engaged in helpingshape the future of the built
environment, the ULI is for you.
And I think that's on displaywith the roughly 300 members
that we have here in theNorthwest Arkansas Metro
advancing the ULI mission on ourbehalf.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
So you mentioned that phrase best practices.
What does that mean uh when whenyou apply it to real places here
like Northwest Arkansas?
What is it where regionalism isour mantra, right?
It's not city by city, it'sregionalism.
What does best practices meanfor ULI and Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Well, it means something different to
everybody.
Yeah, right.
I think when we all have aunique relationship with our
built environment, the worldthat we exist in, right?
What we do know fundamentally isthat how we consume and build
atop the landscape in cities andtowns directly influences how
people go on about their life,right?
Uh this goes back to ourearliest ancestors and how the
(03:05):
natural world would influencebehaviors.
We got to go find shelter, wegot to find warmth, we want to
move with the climate, we got togo where the food is.
In many ways, the builtenvironment still uh modifies
our behavior, thoseenvironmental determinants of
health, right?
And so where are we sociallybonded?
Where do we call home?
Where do we go to work?
Where do we play and entertain?
Where do we educate and more?
How tightly are we bonded withour neighbors and our friends?
(03:28):
Um, the the built environmentdirectly informs and influences
how we go about our day-to-day.
Now, what is a best practicewithin that context?
It's different for everybody,right?
And so uh I usually try to keepit simple and try to make it
relatable uh to people in theirown in their own minds.
Where do you go on vacation?
(03:48):
What sort of cities do you findyourself when you're traveling?
Are they compact, walkablecommunities, uh rich with
experience and and amenities ina short and a small area?
Maybe you like going to thosesmall towns as quaint little New
England towns, or maybe you likea larger scale, a place like
Rome or or uh or Athens or orBarcelona, uh, where maybe your
(04:10):
built environment is more openspace.
Maybe your best practices haveto do with large riparian
corridors and and space forwildlife and peace and quiet,
um, and everything in between.
Yeah.
And so it's everybody's gonnaanswer their that question
differently.
And from a governmental point ofview, a regulatory or a market
point of view, practitioners aregonna answer that question
(04:32):
differently as well becausethey're trying to deliver
products and zoning regulationand infrastructure choices that
correspond to where they're youknow the broad cross-section of
their the citizens they supportand the markets they support,
where they want that market togo.
And so again, at ULI, we areagile, we are responsive to the
the various dynamics in anygiven district council area that
(04:54):
we support.
And uh we we definitely loveworking by with and through the
industry professionals to staytuned in to what a best practice
means to Northwest Arkansas andtry to try to walk that fine
line as a neutral convener andhelp people achieve it together.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
You know, um when you said 300 members, that made
me uh think back on um, youknow, I was at the Business
Journal for a long time.
I was at the very first ULINorthwest Arkansas uh gathering.
No, okay.
It was about this was probablynine or 10 years ago.
You know, Jeremy Hudson was soinstrumental in getting this um
(05:30):
this council up and running withit.
There was some sort of a youknow sponsorship from the
Oklahoma City uh chapter orwhatever.
And so uh the first uh meeting,Ramsey Ball was uh was uh, you
know, told me you've got to bethere.
You've got to come to this.
This is important, this is big.
So I went to the record indowntown Bentonville, and that
was the first event.
There were um, you know, MikeMalone spoke when he was with
our runway group after he leftthe Northwest Arkansas Council.
(05:52):
Uh there was former mayor ofOklahoma City who was there who
was moved on to ULI.
Nick Cornette, probably.
Yeah, that's it.
Yep.
And there were about 60 peoplethere.
Yeah.
And uh it was great, andeverybody, and like you said, it
was just such a cross-section ofuh bankers and real estate and
and title and and and just allsorts of industry professionals
there.
And so, yeah, the as the decadehas progressed, and I think you
(06:14):
came up here what, seven yearsago, six or seven years ago to
do that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
We were officially launched with staff uh in April
of 2019.
So we're coming right up onseven-year anniversary.
I like to think that's theofficial change as we became a
formal part of the ULI networkand uh and over time grew our
governance, grew a strategicplan, separated from that
mentorship from ULI Oklahoma,and now charted our own course.
(06:38):
We're very, very thankful thatwe've been able to come so far
in seven years and appreciateyou sharing those stories
because again, that was before Iwas hired uh to lead the
district council.
And so I love hearing thoseearly moments of just uh a loose
group of folks who believed inthe mission and came together to
share ideas and talk about umvarious ways forward for our
(06:58):
exciting here and a lot ofdifferent uh stories and ways to
think about seven years ago andten years ago and four years ago
and just how we keep evolving sowell.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
Before we get deeper into that and Northwest Arkansas
and your work, I want to go backto your your Conway roots.
All right.
Conway story, right?
So as we mentioned, you're umyou're a UCA graduate, but
you're also a Conway high schoolgraduate.
You just kept through andthrough.
Yeah, you've got uh what's thewhat's the six-legged thing, the
cheer that they have?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Oh yeah, it's uh you're gonna put me on the spot.
It's something like four forrunning with yeah, with all the
flight and two for fighting withall the might or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's been it's been 30 yearssince high school graduation and
singing the singing the fightsong, you have to forgive me.
But yeah, proud, proud commonway roots, multi-generational
Conway roots, going back a longtime and um and uh couldn't be
(07:42):
more proud of that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
And so you decided to stay home and attend UCA.
Tough G tell me about thatdecision to uh to be a bear.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, what a gift to have an incredible institution
in in my backyard.
Uh and and it's important toacknowledge that my family has
deep roots in Conway.
My my mother and my grandparentsboth.
My grandfather, Graham Nixon,was a state senator representing
the Conway district and servedas a trustee at the time,
Arkansas State Teachers College.
Um subsequent to that, uh my ummy mother ran the Chamber of
(08:15):
Commerce as an elder at a churchthere in Conway.
And uh we have deep roots there.
And then as a Wampuscat andlater a UCA um student and
graduate myself, uh, Idefinitely desired to carry on
that tradition.
I understood the value of havingthat institution right there in
our city.
Uh, I knew that I would, itwould make me stronger and build
(08:36):
my relationships in a way thatwould pay off.
And they did.
And I'm happy to talk about thata little bit today through my
time at Conway City Hall.
Uh, and and ultimately who it'smade me today, right up here in
Northwest Arkansas, and how I'mcontinuing to use the education
and the uh the relationships Iforged through graduate and
undergraduate school at UCA,right here in Northwest Arkansas
(08:57):
today.
And I I would I would be failingin my duty if I didn't also
mention the ROTC program,Bayonet Battalion.
Um, UCA is where I transitionedfrom enlisted army to to my co
earning my commission as anofficer that is uh that is now
25 years into that career, umestablishing me as one of
Arkansas's senior leaders,Lieutenant Colonel.
I'm currently the operationsofficer for the 87th Troop
(09:19):
Command.
And I would not have my militarycareer but for that ROTC
resource founding UCA.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah.
So your military career, let'slet's stop there.
You were a student at UCA for9-11 during 9-11.
Right.
So what do you remember aboutthat moment?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
I was in Burdick Business Building.
It's funny you bring that up.
I I don't share the story toooften.
Um I was in Burdick Business andaccounting, uh, accounting
class, uh, accounting one.
And I walked out and a friend ofmine called.
It was like um old Nokia cellphone.
He said, You gotta come over andcheck this thing out.
And I went to his apartment andjust in time to catch the second
(09:56):
plane.
And um, and uh yeah, so fastforward, my story is not
dissimilar to many.
Ultimately, what matters is thaton Thursday I was in the
recruiter's just a couple dayslater.
I didn't know why.
Uh I didn't know I I guess Iknew why.
I didn't understand that thatwould that that event Tuesday
9-11 would ignite a spark in methe way that it did, but I was
(10:17):
pretty quick to lean into that.
I didn't know where it wouldtake me.
Certainly had no reason tobelieve that I'd be here 25
years later, uh, still in, stillcontinuing to serve.
But uh, but it set a lot ofthings in motion.
And so yeah, I took a littlehiatus from UCA, uh, went off to
basic and AIT and OSITS, we callit, became a combat engineer and
(10:38):
and served as an enlistedsoldier for some time before
coming back to UCA and finishingmy undergraduate degree in 2004,
uh, simultaneously earning thatcommission as a second
lieutenant and starting that bigphase two of my journey in the
reserve and Arkansas NationalGuard uh as a commission
officer.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
So, if not for 9-11, then what did you intend to do
with your life?
What what career did youenvision for yourself?
What were you going to be whenyou uh when you left the
university?
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
No idea, buddy.
I think I mentioned to you on9-11.
I was in Burdick BusinessBuilding uh that morning,
beautiful morning.
And um and I think at the time Iwas a business major, but I
think prior to that I dabbled inenvironmental science, maybe,
maybe and history.
Uh history scared me off becausethere was too much reading and
writing, and I didn't have thepatience for that.
(11:26):
I think environmental science, II got into organic chemistry and
nope, zipped out of that prettyquickly.
I think me and accounting didn'tclick.
It wasn't until later I foundgeography and the geography
department UCA.
And all of a sudden I became astraight A student.
And I knew I was just wiseenough in my 20s to know that
when something feels easy, itjust clicks.
(11:47):
Probably on the right path.
Like, follow that, follow thatinstinct.
And so um Jeff, Jeff Allen orPaul Buddh, Jerry Reynolds,
Brooks Green, like the team thatwas around in the geography
department in that era in thelate 90s and early 2000s.
Not not to suggest that the teamnow is a great, but Mary Sue
Paste Smith, like that that teamjust uh really was amazing and
(12:09):
it and they inspired me.
And I didn't know what I wasgonna do with a geography degree
either.
I assumed I was gonna come uphere and go to grad school and
maybe become a professor myself.
Um but uh but I part of thatgeography degree led me to an
internship at Conway City Hall,and that internship ended with a
job offer.
And uh at the time I think itwas something like$29,000 a year
(12:30):
to be a junior playing or a GIStech on the team.
And I thought, you know, Ithought I was rich.
Yeah,$29,000 a year.
Where do I sign?
And so that kept me.
That was uh that was when Icommitted to staying in Conway.
Uh and that that supported, Iimmediately went to Tap
Townshill, incredible mayor, alongtime mayor of the city of
Conway.
And I went to my boss, BrianPatrick, and Tap Townshill and I
(12:51):
said, Hey, can I can I go tograd school part-time?
Can they let me escape City Hallfor an hour or two here and
there and start graduate school?
And and they did.
And so I went right back to UCA,marched right back across to
Onnegee, back into class in thecommunity.
At the time, it was atraditional master's of science
and community and economicdevelopment and uh and started
down that grad school path andand completed the community
(13:13):
development institute as part ofit.
Later went on to teach adjunctin both of those departments
after graduation.
And uh, I don't think that MSCEDprogram is there anymore, but
uh, but it was instrumental tomy success all while I was um
back at City Hall and learninghow to be a city planner.
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
Yeah, of course, um, you know, CDI, you mentioned the
the institute is is obviouslystill there, it's still
thriving.
It's still uh uh coming up on a40-year anniversary, if you can
believe that or not.
What a gift to our state andregion to have CDI.
Yeah, sends economic developers,municipal leaders all across the
state and other states as well.
And so I've gotten to know uh,you know, Nathan C.
(13:49):
the mayor at P Ridge, and uhTrish Way at the at the water
utility, and just so many peopleup here who who uh you know that
I knew from the business journaland they hear me UCA, first
thing out of their mouth.
Ooh, community developmentinstitute.
I love CDI, big believer in CDI.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Yeah.
Well, I have uh of note, um, oneof our staff members at at ULI,
our director of operations,Megan Brown, I just told her
your professional development,your next professional
development uh uh uh target isCDI.
So she's applying the newNorthwest Arkansas cohort, the
second cohort coming up.
Yep.
Uh continue to lean into that asan opportunity, uh, invaluable
(14:25):
experience to those leaders.
And again, the second and thirdorder ripple effects across our
state and region, what it meansto UCA and what it means to the
communities that UCA servesthrough the CDI experience uh
touches countless lives.
Again, it's a gift.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
All right.
So you you came to NorthwestArkansas in 2019, I think, for
the job at um at ULI.
That's right.
Before that, you spent 10 yearsat City Hall in Conway, city
planner.
Eventually, what what what's itlike?
What do people misunderstandabout what a city planner does?
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Well, it's well, that's presuming I know what
they understand.
So I want to be cautious abouttrying to live in anyone else's
mind.
Um, but I will say that thatbeing a city planner is uh at it
it's electrifying, right?
Especially in a city like Conwayat that era from the mid-2000s
to the mid-teens when I wasthere.
And I got the chance to dobasically every job in the in
(15:17):
the department.
So um comprehensive look andtouches on on a period of Conway
growth that was reallyinstrumental to who Conway is
today, right?
I was there when we clicked the50,000 population mark that set
a lot of outside investment inplay, interstate interchanges
and um institutional capitalhitting our landscape with
(15:39):
hotels and restaurants andshopping centers and more.
Um, and our at the same time,the city and the chamber were
being very deliberate aboutinvesting in downtown and making
downtown a destination.
Uh, the the voters of the cityof Conway were supporting bond
referendums for park spendingand the industrial park and
more.
And so it was, I was there at amoment, Paul, when we were
(16:00):
flooded with gross.
And what a great place to be,from the junior staffer uh all
the way to one of the senioradvisors uh to city council and
the mayor to be a part of that.
Um, it made me by and large, uhit was instrumental in making me
the built environmentprofessional that I am today,
complimented, of course, bycommunity and economic
(16:22):
development master's degree andand leadership in the army and
more at CDI, like we talkedabout.
But but it was an incredibledecade there in Conway.
Um the role of the city planneris a delicate one because we at
once uh need to be tuned in tothis the citizenry, right?
(16:44):
Uh the citizenry gets a vote inhow their city grows and shapes
uh over the horizon.
And so how do we stay tuned intothe citizenry while
simultaneously being tuned in toum the political climate because
it matters.
We've got to get policies acrossthe line, comprehensive growth
strategies and more, projectsacross the line.
(17:05):
And that demands you get, youknow, planning commission and
city council on board.
Uh we've got to make sure thatwhat we do is feasible and
reasonable and acceptable sothat you can get get the work
done.
And then you're trying to strikea balance with um with best
practices.
What are the what what do weknow from case studies in
similar cities?
(17:26):
What is working and not workingin other places?
We have grand visions, but howdo you get the rubber to the
road, right?
And there are systems andprocesses, just like there are
in every industry and everytrade and every career.
There are systems and processesand practices that we need to
stay true to, um, the ethos ofthe professional planner, if you
will, code of ethics, right?
(17:47):
And and how do we stay true tothose to make sure that we avoid
any minefields along the way andexposure to the city along the
way.
And so being a planner is ismuch like is much like walking a
tightrope and maintaining abalance between all of those
stakeholder groups and points offriction and interest.
And it's it's it's puzzlesolving every day and it's a lot
(18:10):
of fun.
Not not without its challenges,and you don't always get it
right, no question about it.
But but it is a lot of fun.
And when you do get it right,you believe that you've shaped
something that may you may notsee in your working life.
Like the the the story arc of acity planner is measured in
generational scale, right?
And so sometimes the policy orprojects that we would advance
(18:32):
may not show up materially for20 or 40 years on the landscape
in a way that's affecting thecommunity in in a positive way.
And so, so it is neverthelessfulfilling, but it's a long play
on fulfilling.
And uh that's one of the it'sone of the most beautiful parts
to me.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Is that still part of your work here?
I mean, to to get people tothink uh past just their next
project.
I mean, you're you're thinkingin the future.
Is that the biggest challenge?
Is that a challenge?
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Yeah, that's what I do.
I mean, at ULI right now, that'sthat's primarily where we live.
So um we'll share with you thatwe are right now really
committed to helping this regionunderstand where the market is,
right?
Like where where do we seecapital deploying?
Because capital is the grease.
When when that when those uhdebt partners and equity
(19:20):
partners show up and choose tomake an investment in a project,
um that that gets the the thewheels in motion, right?
Um where is the infrastructuregoing?
Effectively, thoseinfrastructure decisions can be
like capital partners, right?
So what's the state highwaydepartment doing?
(19:41):
What is the Beaver WaterDistrict doing?
What are other wastewaterproviders like NACA doing?
What are the individualmunicipalities doing with the
utilities and the transportationinfrastructure that they
control?
And then what is the what is therole of zoning and regulation,
right?
Uh and how does that regulatoryenvironment um support uh
(20:03):
entitlement, especiallyfriction-free entitlement?
Uh, how do we do we havepredictability in the
entitlement processes?
And and then what's the role ofthe citizen?
Like genuinely, what's in thebest interest of the citizenry
in terms of creating choice?
How do we move around thelandscape?
Choice, what sort of house mightbe available?
Is it affordable andarchitecturally?
(20:24):
Does it support the needs of myfamily?
What's its location?
What is the location of theplaces where we're growing for
our citizenry?
Uh, what does that mean to howthe region behaves collectively?
Uh, access to good services,amenities, social bonding,
public health outcomes, uh,right down to to like how the
natural world around us isbehaving.
How are we maintaining openspaces?
(20:46):
How are we managing ourstormwater?
Um, where are we moving our ouruh refuse?
Um, and and what is the role ofrecreation, right?
And tourism.
And so all of these pieces kindof have to find a way to nest
like a puzzle, right?
And it is complex and it ishard.
And ULI right now, as much asanything we're doing, we are
(21:07):
we're we are we are sustainingour presence as a neutral
convener that brings togetherall of those stakeholder groups
as frequently as possible totalk about these challenges.
How do we get these, how do wesee the puzzle pieces?
What puzzle pieces might bemissing?
Do we understand, like you wouldlike on the the cardboard front
(21:28):
of a puzzle, do we have a visualfor where we think this thing is
going?
Who's holding what piece?
Where does it fit and when?
It's it's a complex and and andit's necessary.
I think fundamentally it'snecessary to do this.
It's hard.
It's full of friction, it's fullof uncertainty and complexity.
And uh and when you're doingregional scale planning and
(21:50):
development initiatives acrossuh all sectors, public sector,
private sector, and more.
Um it's hard.
But it's never it's sonecessary.
Because if we don't, we Justkind of grow accidentally, and
various stakeholder resourcesmight just simply begin to flow
towards their path of leastresistance.
And that's normal for all of us,I think.
(22:10):
And then we end up with a placethat doesn't feel cohesive.
It doesn't feel made.
And moreover, and worse, itstarts to erode a sense of who
we are.
This thing that makes NorthwestArkansas so special, where we
can balance a great builtenvironment right next door to a
great natural environment.
Everybody's got choice, right?
(22:31):
Where I live, what can I afford,how I move around my landscape,
um, amenity-rich environment.
Do I feel like I find myself inthe identity of Northwest
Arkansas?
All of these things are soimportant and we don't want to
lose that.
That's the secret sauce, right?
And I think Northwest Arkansasis as good as I've ever seen at
regional collaboration.
And uh, and I think it's it'sour biggest strength, in fact.
(22:55):
And I am so grateful, sothankful to lead an organization
with a mission as important asULI and be right in the middle
of it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
If so, if the work is hard and it's a complex
puzzle every day when you go towork, where do you find the
enjoyment of that?
What what what is the what isthe the biggest payoff for you
in the work that you do?
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
People.
I think I'm people first kind ofguy.
I um uh it fills me up.
You know, I'll like I look at mythe ULI board.
Um, for example, I look at theULI board and I see we have
mayors and we have executiveleaders from the private sector,
uh, we have academics on ourboard.
(23:34):
Um we have uh industry tradesprofessionals, right?
Senior leaders um from variousdisciplines throughout, uh other
nonprofiteers, you name it.
And they're all incredible.
Everybody here, uh everybody inthe ULI world that I get to
interact with, uh they're muchlike me.
They're really committed tomaking Northwest Arkansas the
(23:56):
best it can be.
They are they all believe thatour built environment matters,
that how we choose to consumeand build atop this landscape
will either improve the qualityof life of everyone that calls
this place home and the economicopportunities that exist
therein, or it starts to erodethat.
And we all show up with passionand resolve and a commitment to
(24:17):
spend the majority of our wakinghours solving this puzzle.
As complex and difficult as itis, uh, it's it's important and
it's necessary if we're gonnacontinue to be our best and
achieve our fullest potentialregionally.
So those people, those leaders,those thinkers, those doers,
those action ninjas out thereevery day fighting the good
(24:38):
fight, they inspire me.
And uh and I'm so deeplygrateful to be in their presence
every day.
There's a lot of other goodthings I could say, but I think
I am a people first guy, and Ilove the network of leaders that
I get to uh that I get to callfriends and colleagues.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yeah, we've got a great network of of uh leaders
here.
And you mentioned regionalismand and the fact that it works
so well here uh and it has for30 years.
That's that's how we've beenable to do a lot of things.
You came from Central Arkansas.
You were heavily involved in incentral Arkansas municipal
leadership.
And what is the I'm not askingyou to directly compare, but
(25:16):
what is the difference?
Why, why does regionalism workhere and maybe doesn't work in
some other areas, not justcentral Arkansas, but what is
what is the secret toregionalism uh taking hold here?
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
I'm gonna give you a hunch.
I don't know if it's valid.
I mean, it's a thoroughassessment of a lifetime of
doing this work.
Um, I think it's informed hunch.
Um but it but it is only mine.
It is only my hunch.
Maybe invalid.
Um I think there are two thingsthat come to mind.
I've thought about this a fairbit because it is definitely
distinguishable.
(25:49):
This is a distinguishableartifact.
Regionalism is is more effectivehere than it is in central
Arkansas.
Um fundamentally, I thinkCentral Arkansas historically is
a um is a monocentric metro.
And as many monocentric metrosum faced in the mid-20th
century, late 20th century,there was a lot of flight out of
(26:09):
Little Rock.
And over time, those satellitecommunities, yes, northwest
north, North Little Rock upclose, but I'm really talking
about Lono County, uh FaulknerCounty, and Saline County here.
Um, they began to take on anidentity of their own and really
become proud.
And in many ways, looking atConway, quite firewall.
(26:29):
Conway's got an economy and ahealthcare system and an
education system and a qualityof life.
And Conway's got every strengthnecessary to serve, to be on its
own with or without thisanchoring city called Little
Rock.
Now, that may not have alwaysbeen the case, but put a hundred
years into evolution, and it is.
And I think that's true for alot of the other cities, maybe
not to the scale of Conway, butbut there's a pride associated
(26:51):
with being bitten or Bryant orCabot or Conway or Maul Mel or
even North Rock and even thesmaller suburbs.
So, so I think historically justthe growth of a monocentric with
the flight that occurred in thelate 20th century um set
conditions differently.
Now you look up here and yousee, uh, especially over the
(27:11):
recent past, a very polycentricmetro with the big four cities,
and now more than half of ourgrowth is occurring outside
those big four cities.
Majority of housing starts andpopulation is now arriving in
the roughly two dozenmunicipalities that surround the
big four.
But it breeds, it I think, Ithink just being a polycentric
metro inspires regionalism,right?
(27:33):
Um, our growth inspires acentral uh sense of regionalism
because we welcome newcomers.
We're all so many of us have anewcomer story, some a little
bit older than others, but butvery few of us, in fact, now can
say, I was born here.
I'm multi-generational NorthwestArkansas.
Uh and so there's a spirit ofwelcome, you know, a spirit of
openness associated.
(27:55):
Um, so I think all those worktogether, the historic ebb and
flow of how the metros growmonocentrically and
polycentrically.
I think they play a role.
The second major reason isbecause you've got you got key
leaders.
I mean, I look back at thefounding of the council and when
the choice was made um by those,you know, those Northwest
Arkansas founding fathers, ifyou will.
Um, you know, uh, you've gotobviously Sam Walton and JB Hunt
(28:18):
and Don Hyson, and you say umthey made they made the
statement we're staying.
But if we're gonna stay, wegotta, we gotta, we gotta change
a few things and we're gonnahave to work to get us an
interstate.
We're gonna have to work to uhupdate this airport and get it
out of Drake Field, and andwe're gonna have to make some
investments that create theworkforce that we need and
attract the workforce that weneed and more and more.
(28:41):
And I think that set the compassuh for regional collaboration in
a way that it might not haveexisted otherwise, but for those
leaders coming together andestablishing the council.
Um, because now, right throughwhere we are today, in things
like the Razor Back Greenway andand regional coordination on
growth strategy, the regionalgrowth strategy that the council
(29:03):
is getting ready to submit onthis spring and share with the
public this spring and more.
The list goes on and on.
The number of regionalinitiatives that were birthed
because those that decision wasmade, I think it's unique to
Northwest Arkansas.
I don't think it happens in manyother places, and it's a forcing
function that makes ourjurisdictions partner and
collaborate over importantregional issues.
(29:25):
That that that rising tide sortof spirit that exists, that
what's good for Springdale isalso good for Rogers, Fayeville,
and Bentonville uh and and more.
Um, that attitude is isinstrumental to our success.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
All right.
So yeah, you mentioned thecouncil just celebrated their
35th anniversary and all thatthey've accomplished.
I mean, they've it it's it's uhit's uh when you put it on a
list and just the things thatyou just rattled off there uh is
not even half.
Uh it's just an incredibleorganization and convener.
So let's look ahead 15, 20years.
You know, if we the work you'redoing and a lot of our other
(29:59):
regional leaders are doing, ifwe get this right, yeah, you
know, what is what doesNorthwest Arkansas look like in
15 or 20 years?
And if we don't, what are therisks?
What are the where could we slipthrough the cracks?
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Well, I I I started using this phrase, the Northwest
Arkansas promise.
And here's how I define it ifyou live in Northwest Arkansas,
there there's a an implicitpromise that has been made to
you that you're joining a metrowhere um where you have close
access to good services andamenities, where you have access
(30:32):
to great education and greatemployment, generally safe
environment, where you haveaccess to um the great outdoors,
just out your backyard, andwhere you have access to
world-class entertainment, umwhere where all of these things
can coexist in one place andit's an affordable uh qual, it's
(30:54):
affordable life, right?
Like you can find a home thatyou can afford that complements
your needs and lifestyle in aplace that you want to live and
right out your doorstep, goodservices, amenities, recreation,
jobs, all of it.
And and that is a promise thatwe're we're really good at
making good on in northwestArkansas.
I think we have to ask ourselvesum, is it a given that that
(31:16):
promise will be here in 20 or 30years for our kids and
grandkids?
And that is not a given.
I want to be crystal clear aboutthat.
There's no layups, right?
It is hard work, it is puzzlesolving every single day.
If we're gonna maintain thispromise with a straight face and
make good on it when peoplearise, it's it's our small uh
(31:38):
right now.
I think our our big citiescouldn't be prouder of.
Um, I'm thinking a lot about oursmall cities right now.
They're growing so rapidly.
And I'm looking at you, MayorFalkberry Grove, Mayor C P.
Ridge, and I'm looking at you,Mayor Knoblett, and in Cave
Springs and Mayor Edwards andCenterton and more.
And I hate to leave anybody out.
I don't mean to do it onpurpose.
(32:00):
I I could rattle off two dozenif I need it, but but you all
are the future of this region,right?
And you're gonna continue,you're already receiving the
lion's share of residents, andyou're gonna continue to receive
the lion's share of residents.
I do not think we're gonna putthe toothpaste back in the tube.
I think we have evolved to thespillover model.
And in Northwest Arkansas is nowgonna see those suburbs thrive
(32:22):
around the big four at anincreasing pace.
The challenge we face, Paul, ishow do we not make them all the
same bedroom community?
You and I can right now get on aplane or a bus and go visit
dozens and dozens of metros thatare a generation ahead of us on
the growth curve.
And I can put a blindfold on youand I can drop you in the middle
(32:44):
of any of their suburbs and askyou to tell me which one you're
in.
And I defy you to do it.
Because so often, those suburbancommunities that surround the
primary metro, whether it'smonocentric with one big city or
polycentric like our big four,very often those suburbs start
growing in very similar ways.
And you move, you fast forward ageneration or two, and they all
(33:07):
start to look and feel the same.
And I don't know that thatthey're achieving the promise
necessarily out there in thesuburbs of those metros that are
a generation or two ahead of us.
I know they're not achievingtheir fullest potential of
distinctive character and adistinctive identity in many of
the suburbs and metros aroundthe country.
(33:28):
I believe that if we are goingto continue to make this
Northwest Arkansas promise topeople who haven't arrived yet,
and we're going to make good onit.
Well, when they get here, wemust at the fastest pace
possible be investing in theplanning and growth management
capacity of the two, roughly twodozen small cities that surround
the big four.
(33:49):
And we have to help themunderstand what makes them
unique and desirable.
What is their comparableadvantage to the next suburb, a
short five or 10 minute drivedown the highway, and what
decisions we can be making forourselves to ensure that we grow
on an amenity-rich environment,where people have a variety of
housing and mobility choice thatis affordable, where we can
(34:11):
offer the same educational andrecreational promises that the
big four cities can, where wecan stay in front of our
infrastructure and growthmanagement challenges and we
have the bonding capacity totake care of our own.
When we can help the smallcities scale at the speed they
need to and achieve that levelof capacity where they can be
distinguishable and they can beproud of who they are and they
(34:33):
can meet the growth needs, thenI think we're definitely headed
down the right path to makingsure our children and
grandchildren will achieve thesame promise that we've been
able to achieve.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Yeah.
Well, you I'm going to stickwith this puzzle analogy that
we've got going.
And you just rattled um a lot ofthe most important pieces off,
right?
Uh, you know, transportation andconnectivity, you know, housing
mix and affordability and andinfrastructure and pace of
growth.
And then uh the the importantone that you obviously think and
I do too, identity of thesetowns versus the scale.
(35:03):
So I'm gonna put you on the spothere then.
You know, which of those puzzlepieces is the most important?
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
I um I think I think it I would have to defer to a
given community to identify Imean I the infrastructure is
just gonna be a critical pieceof it.
It's just gonna be uh, you know,ULI published our trends, our
emerging trends and real estatereport on January 15th.
It's out on our website.
I encourage people to go take alook at it.
(35:33):
Um, it should come as nosurprise what I'm about to say.
Infrastructure.
We we listened to focus groups,did surveys, interviews, went
through uh Co-Star data.
And infrastructure is justdriving the conversation right
now.
And um, we've got to ensure thatinfrastructure is a place that's
both street um and also waterand utility services, uh
(35:54):
stormwater as well.
Um that that is a very expensivechallenge.
Um and it is it is all too oftenum not met.
And so growth occurs.
You know, the development, thewater development is going to
flow downhill.
And if you've got a lot ofavailable land, farmland out
there that can be bought up andturned into residential
(36:16):
subdivisions, um, that that ishard inertia to stop.
And very often, and this isn'tjust a northwest Arkansas story,
it's an America story.
Very often that growth occursbefore the infrastructure is
fully prepared to serve it.
And so we end up growing in away that's not particularly
resilient.
You know, we we we can maybematch the pace of that growth
(36:39):
with a little bit of stormwaterinfrastructure.
Maybe we can we can build aroad, but it's got open ditches
instead of curb and gutter.
Um, maybe we can't, we can'tquite get the lit streets out
there, can't afford thesidewalks, you know, but but
we'll at least topcoat thatcounty road and we'll get it out
there to where that subdivisionis.
And that's a tenuous bargain.
It's a very tenuous bargainbecause the growth is going to
(37:00):
continue to come and theinfrastructure needs to be
robust enough to be to tosupport that growth in a
resilient way.
Simultaneously, the tax baseserves as infrastructure.
And so, how do we help thesesmall cities not simply grow as
residential bedroom communitiesof the big four, but grow in a
way that they have their own taxbase?
(37:21):
In the state of Arkansas, ourcity jurisdictions are pay, they
pay the bills with sales taxprimarily, like overwhelming.
Uh overwhelmingly, they pay withsales tax.
Well, if they're just bedroomcommunities, are they getting
the grocery stores and therestaurants?
Are they getting the hotels?
Are they getting any other ofthose cash registers necessary
so they can pay for police andfire and sanitation and all the
(37:41):
other services, even amenitieslike parks and more?
So infrastructure and tax base,I think, is critically
important.
But as far as identity goes andzoning and how you want to build
your built environment, um,what's our what's the role of
open space and and bikes andpedestrian underbuilt
environment?
Those are important questions.
I think they're secondary to totax base and infrastructure.
(38:02):
Um, and they are best left forthose communities to answer for
themselves.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Are you a bike rider?
Are you a cyclist?
Very much.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Very serious people for to work or to recreate or
both or all of the above onoccasion when possible.
I call East, uh, we're near EastFayville, as I call it.
If anybody knows the area, baseof Mount Sequoia, Reed
Elementary, Gully Park, all thatthat area.
Um, I'm blessed.
And um, we just city ofFayville, the the the
transportation infrastructurecomplemented by the recreation
(38:30):
infrastructure, it's incredible.
Uh and it is right on our backdoor.
So when uh always riderecreationally, but when
feasible, uh, yeah, I'll ride,I'll ride a commute to a meeting
or whether it's with staff oranother ULI partner, whatever it
is for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Feasibility, does that include a temperature
threshold either way?
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Uh, the older I get, uh, I don't know if it's a blood
pressure thing or what, butthese colder days, it is a
barrier to entry, Paul.
No doubt about it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
That's great.
You and your your why family,what do you love most about
raising a family in umFayetteville?
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
The promise.
I mean, I love Fayetteville.
We chose it on purpose.
Uh, we we shopped around allfour of the cities when we were
shopping for homes in 2018.
Um, nothing against any of them.
Uh Rogers, for example, remindsme an awful lot of downtown
Conway.
We would have loved them indowntown Rogers.
Bentonville, mountain bikingfamily, obviously wonderful
there.
Um, Springdale loved the arts,loved the multicultural scene.
(39:24):
It was affordable at the time.
Fundamentally, we choseFayetteville.
Uh, it was a mature city, had itoffered a lot of amenities.
We like the college town vibe.
I acknowledge it's not foreverybody, but uh, but we love
the fresh air as students ebband flow through our community.
We love the quiet summers.
Sure.
But I don't, I'm not displeasedwhen students are around either.
It's a it's a nice vibe.
Uh, and at the time,importantly, very alien, very
(39:46):
importantly, at the time, mywife was uh still working for
UAMS.
She'd moved her research from uhfrom the Little Rock campus to
the Fayetteville campus, and shedid put her foot down and say,
I've been commuting from Conwayto Little Rock long enough.
I am ready to shorten commute.
And so that was a big decidingvote in why we chose
Fayetteville.
Love it, don't regret it.
I think Fayetteville's wherewe've planted roots, and um, and
(40:07):
it's where our 12-year-old sonwill call him.
It'll be his hometown.
Yeah.
And I couldn't be prouder ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Let's go back to that last item that I read in
your bio about the fly fishing.
Yeah.
Uh a fishing guide.
You, you, that's that's beenpart of who you are growing up,
and and was it was a businessfor you at one point.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
It was.
It was actually bigger than flyfishing.
So I ran an adventure travelcompany for uh for a period of
time back in the 2000s.
We focused on vehicle-basedtravel.
Now it's taking the form ofoverlanding these days.
I was way too early to themarket on that.
But fundamentally, uh, we wouldwe would invite folks out um to
the Ozark and the WashingtonNational Forest, and we would
(40:44):
help them use their tools.
Like folks have a Jeep or theyhave some camping gear, but they
they may not necessarily befully comfortable in in using
those tools in the greatoutdoors.
And so leveraging my armyexperience and some other
relationships around the region,we would, we'd take folks out on
adventure trips, long weekends,and uh we would we would do some
off-roading.
We talk about how to build afire, how to do wilderness first
(41:06):
aid, how to communicate in thebackcountry with ham radios uh
and more.
And yep, fishing was a part ofthat, but fishing's been a part
of my life since I was a littlekid.
I grew up on a cattle farm, youknow, fishing in the ponds to uh
to to where I am today.
I got a fishing boat, a littleriver skiff, and and I still
love getting out.
I can I can't say I've ever beena paid guide.
I've been a adventure travelguide, um, but I've never been a
(41:29):
paid fishing guide.
But maybe for retirement I can Ican do it.
I think if I do, it'll betargeting kids and veterans, uh
helping people um discover thejoy of fishing.
Uh, but um, but but that's aretirement goal.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
How do you leverage?
You mentioned leveraging yourarmy experience.
How do you do that into yourwork with ULI?
Like you're a convener, like youmentioned, not just here.
I mean, ULI just hosted anational event, right?
With people from all over thecountry and the world came here.
And, you know, if what if onething we know how to do in
Northwest Arkansas, it'ssummits, right?
It's gatherings.
We have large-scale gatheringsfor whatever your your stated
(42:04):
purpose is.
So, how do you leverage yourmilitary background in in
approaching how you uh approachyour work with ULI?
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
So uh it's invaluable.
I didn't, you know, I joined for9-11, got the call to serve, uh,
acknowledged that it's anadventure.
I didn't know what to expect.
I really leaned in, tookadvantage of what it was,
leveraged all of the benefits tomy benefit.
Um, you know, I'm no dummy.
Um the Army's put a lot into me.
Little did I know that theleadership, education, the
(42:35):
pillars of professionaldevelopment in the Army, the
institutional, the operational,and the self-development pillars
uh would shape who I become as aleader and a manager of
organizations and operations.
And I think it's on display uhin virtually everything I do.
I I tone it down.
I don't, I don't want to have amilitary presence among my staff
(42:55):
team at ULI, nor among any ofour partners and and friends.
Um, so I I do my best to codeswitch, but but functionally,
structurally, everything that Iknow about um leading and
managing large organizations incomplex and uncertain
environments with limitedresources and uncertain partners
(43:19):
and um uh yeah, uh big goals.
Everything I know aboutleadership and management, I
chalk up to what the Army hasinvested in me.
And it's one of the reasons Icontinue to stay in to this day
because Dark Soul Army NationalGuard is it is dense with
incredible leaders, men andwomen doing every available uh
(43:40):
operational specialty occupationyou could think of, all mentors
to me.
There's not a weekend I don't godown or a week of training or a
conference somewhere or adeployment.
Um still doing those every fiveor so years.
Well, there's not an experiencein uniform that doesn't make me
better because of it.
And I try to bring those lessonsand those fundamentals back and
(44:04):
employ them in maybe moresensitive ways, uh, a little
more civilian code.
Uh, but but I try to bring itback because I believe in it.
I think the army is really goodat doing hard things well.
And uh Lord knows trying to helpthis region deliver the deliver
itself uh the best uh deliver aform the best it can be is
(44:26):
definitely a hard challenge.
And yeah, yeah, I'm very, verygrateful to um to everything
that shaped me, inclusionmilitary and UCA more.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
Right.
Great, that's great stuff.
Well, real uh I reallyappreciate um the conversation.
And I think it's gonna resonatewith some people who who uh have
uh an interest in, you know,look, we're going so fast up
here.
We are uh we're we're trying tomanage a lot of different things
and a lot of different groupslike yours and others are trying
to um uh to help manage thoseand help plan and and help us
(44:55):
deliver on that promise.
So where can people keep up withwith you and and your work and
what the ULI does uh forwatching this or listening to
this right now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
Arkansas.ui.org.
Okay.
If uh if you want to uh if youwant to be involved, and this
goes for anybody.
Generally we work withprofessionals and and industry
disciplines, but but we love tohear from Joe and Jane public
too.
The citizen gets a vote, and wewe are definitely tuned in.
Uh, welcome anybody who wants tobe engaged in influencing and
(45:26):
shaping and and dialoguing aboutthe future of this region's
built environment.
Encourage you to lean into ULI.
Swing by our website.
You can subscribe to thenewsletter at the bottom of any
of our web pages, keep up withwhat we're doing, and definitely
find us on LinkedIn, Instagram,and Facebook.
Join us for an event or justsimply drop us a note.
We'd love to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (45:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's you know, anyone who cares about
the long-term uh health andsuccess of this region, right?
Um, that's the perspective youthat you had today.
That's exactly the kind of um avoice that we want to have on
our podcast for not only our UCAaudience, but our Northwest
Arkansas audience.
So um really appreciate whatyou're doing.
Thanks for spending some timewith us today and continued
(46:08):
success.
It was a great conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
Paul, we certainly appreciate all that you're doing
and grateful to the entire UCAfamily for choosing to make this
presence in Northwest Arkansas.
I think it's very important andthankful for my, not just my own
experience at UCA, but for allyou stand for as an institution.
Keep up the great work.
SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
All right, awesome.
Appreciate you.
Thanks for saying that.
All right, we appreciateeverybody tuning into this
edition of Central to NWA.
Until next time, go Bears.
Go Bears.
That's it for this episode ofCentral to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm Paul Gatling, SeniorDirector of Northwest Arkansas
Engagement for the University ofCentral Arkansas.
(46:45):
Be sure to subscribe to the showand follow UCA on all the
appropriate social media.
I'll see you next time onCentral to NWA.
This is Central to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm your host, Paul Gatling, andwe are bringing the University
of Central Arkansas to NorthwestArkansas.
Each episode, we will talk withleaders, alumni, and innovators
driving this region forward.
People who are shapingindustries and defining what is
next for our state.
(00:22):
Let's get started.
All right, we're back withanother episode of Central to
NWA, the UCA podcast.
Paul Gatling here with you.
And my guest today is right inthe middle of all the
conversations that we're havingin Northwest Arkansas right now
about growth and long-termthinking and regional
development.
And that man is Wes Creglo.
He's executive director of theNorthwest Arkansas chapter of
(00:42):
the Urban Land Institute.
He has a lot of greatperspectives that we're going to
get into.
UCA alum, I think a couple ofdegrees from UCA, right?
Army veteran, former cityplanner in Conway, a paid fly
fishing guy for a while.
So yeah, a lot to get intothere.
Wes, it's great to see you.
Thanks for being on the pod.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
You got it.
Thanks for having me, Paul.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03):
Yeah.
So uh let's just start at a veryhigh level when somebody asks
you, uh Urban Land Institute,what is that?
What do you do?
What is the Urban Land Institutehere for?
Great question.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13):
So ULI is about a 90-year-old nonprofit member
association.
Uh, we have a member network ofabout 50,000 and over 50
chapters.
We call them district councils.
Okay.
Uh we have 50 district councils,uh, more, more so, in fact,
around the U.S.
and offices, in fact, inAustralia, Europe, and and um,
and Asia.
Fundamentally, the mission ofULI is to uh improve, to advance
(01:37):
best practices in the builtenvironment.
Uh we believe at ULI that thatuh an improved quality of place
directly influences an improvedquality of life.
And that means different thingsto different cities.
So there's no one size fits allsolution.
And that's why we have thisdecentralized model with
district councils supportingvarious metros throughout the
country.
We serve as a uhcross-disciplinary convener.
(02:00):
What I mean by that is you lookat our member network, and
you're not going to see just onediscipline, one trade
association.
You're gonna see everybodyassociated with helping a region
grow (02:09):
public sector, private sector, academia, nonprofiteers
from every possible disciplineyou can think of.
If you are engaged in helpingshape the future of the built
environment, the ULI is for you.
And I think that's on displaywith the roughly 300 members
that we have here in theNorthwest Arkansas Metro
advancing the ULI mission on ourbehalf.
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
So you mentioned that phrase best practices.
What does that mean uh when whenyou apply it to real places here
like Northwest Arkansas?
What is it where regionalism isour mantra, right?
It's not city by city, it'sregionalism.
What does best practices meanfor ULI and Northwest Arkansas?
SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
Well, it means something different to
everybody.
Yeah, right.
I think when we all have aunique relationship with our
built environment, the worldthat we exist in, right?
What we do know fundamentally isthat how we consume and build
atop the landscape in cities andtowns directly influences how
people go on about their life,right?
Uh this goes back to ourearliest ancestors and how the
(03:05):
natural world would influencebehaviors.
We got to go find shelter, wegot to find warmth, we want to
move with the climate, we got togo where the food is.
In many ways, the builtenvironment still uh modifies
our behavior, thoseenvironmental determinants of
health, right?
And so where are we sociallybonded?
Where do we call home?
Where do we go to work?
Where do we play and entertain?
Where do we educate and more?
How tightly are we bonded withour neighbors and our friends?
(03:28):
Um, the the built environmentdirectly informs and influences
how we go about our day-to-day.
Now, what is a best practicewithin that context?
It's different for everybody,right?
And so uh I usually try to keepit simple and try to make it
relatable uh to people in theirown in their own minds.
Where do you go on vacation?
(03:48):
What sort of cities do you findyourself when you're traveling?
Are they compact, walkablecommunities, uh rich with
experience and and amenities ina short and a small area?
Maybe you like going to thosesmall towns as quaint little New
England towns, or maybe you likea larger scale, a place like
Rome or or uh or Athens or orBarcelona, uh, where maybe your
(04:10):
built environment is more openspace.
Maybe your best practices haveto do with large riparian
corridors and and space forwildlife and peace and quiet,
um, and everything in between.
Yeah.
And so it's everybody's gonnaanswer their that question
differently.
And from a governmental point ofview, a regulatory or a market
point of view, practitioners aregonna answer that question
(04:32):
differently as well becausethey're trying to deliver
products and zoning regulationand infrastructure choices that
correspond to where they're youknow the broad cross-section of
their the citizens they supportand the markets they support,
where they want that market togo.
And so again, at ULI, we areagile, we are responsive to the
the various dynamics in anygiven district council area that
(04:54):
we support.
And uh we we definitely loveworking by with and through the
industry professionals to staytuned in to what a best practice
means to Northwest Arkansas andtry to try to walk that fine
line as a neutral convener andhelp people achieve it together.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
You know, um when you said 300 members, that made
me uh think back on um, youknow, I was at the Business
Journal for a long time.
I was at the very first ULINorthwest Arkansas uh gathering.
No, okay.
It was about this was probablynine or 10 years ago.
You know, Jeremy Hudson was soinstrumental in getting this um
(05:30):
this council up and running withit.
There was some sort of a youknow sponsorship from the
Oklahoma City uh chapter orwhatever.
And so uh the first uh meeting,Ramsey Ball was uh was uh, you
know, told me you've got to bethere.
You've got to come to this.
This is important, this is big.
So I went to the record indowntown Bentonville, and that
was the first event.
There were um, you know, MikeMalone spoke when he was with
our runway group after he leftthe Northwest Arkansas Council.
(05:52):
Uh there was former mayor ofOklahoma City who was there who
was moved on to ULI.
Nick Cornette, probably.
Yeah, that's it.
Yep.
And there were about 60 peoplethere.
Yeah.
And uh it was great, andeverybody, and like you said, it
was just such a cross-section ofuh bankers and real estate and
and title and and and just allsorts of industry professionals
there.
And so, yeah, the as the decadehas progressed, and I think you
(06:14):
came up here what, seven yearsago, six or seven years ago to
do that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
We were officially launched with staff uh in April
of 2019.
So we're coming right up onseven-year anniversary.
I like to think that's theofficial change as we became a
formal part of the ULI networkand uh and over time grew our
governance, grew a strategicplan, separated from that
mentorship from ULI Oklahoma,and now charted our own course.
(06:38):
We're very, very thankful thatwe've been able to come so far
in seven years and appreciateyou sharing those stories
because again, that was before Iwas hired uh to lead the
district council.
And so I love hearing thoseearly moments of just uh a loose
group of folks who believed inthe mission and came together to
share ideas and talk about umvarious ways forward for our
(06:58):
exciting here and a lot ofdifferent uh stories and ways to
think about seven years ago andten years ago and four years ago
and just how we keep evolving sowell.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
Before we get deeper into that and Northwest Arkansas
and your work, I want to go backto your your Conway roots.
All right.
Conway story, right?
So as we mentioned, you're umyou're a UCA graduate, but
you're also a Conway high schoolgraduate.
You just kept through andthrough.
Yeah, you've got uh what's thewhat's the six-legged thing, the
cheer that they have?
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Oh yeah, it's uh you're gonna put me on the spot.
It's something like four forrunning with yeah, with all the
flight and two for fighting withall the might or something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's been it's been 30 yearssince high school graduation and
singing the singing the fightsong, you have to forgive me.
But yeah, proud, proud commonway roots, multi-generational
Conway roots, going back a longtime and um and uh couldn't be
(07:42):
more proud of that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:43):
And so you decided to stay home and attend UCA.
Tough G tell me about thatdecision to uh to be a bear.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Well, what a gift to have an incredible institution
in in my backyard.
Uh and and it's important toacknowledge that my family has
deep roots in Conway.
My my mother and my grandparentsboth.
My grandfather, Graham Nixon,was a state senator representing
the Conway district and servedas a trustee at the time,
Arkansas State Teachers College.
Um subsequent to that, uh my ummy mother ran the Chamber of
(08:15):
Commerce as an elder at a churchthere in Conway.
And uh we have deep roots there.
And then as a Wampuscat andlater a UCA um student and
graduate myself, uh, Idefinitely desired to carry on
that tradition.
I understood the value of havingthat institution right there in
our city.
Uh, I knew that I would, itwould make me stronger and build
(08:36):
my relationships in a way thatwould pay off.
And they did.
And I'm happy to talk about thata little bit today through my
time at Conway City Hall.
Uh, and and ultimately who it'smade me today, right up here in
Northwest Arkansas, and how I'mcontinuing to use the education
and the uh the relationships Iforged through graduate and
undergraduate school at UCA,right here in Northwest Arkansas
(08:57):
today.
And I I would I would be failingin my duty if I didn't also
mention the ROTC program,Bayonet Battalion.
Um, UCA is where I transitionedfrom enlisted army to to my co
earning my commission as anofficer that is uh that is now
25 years into that career, umestablishing me as one of
Arkansas's senior leaders,Lieutenant Colonel.
I'm currently the operationsofficer for the 87th Troop
(09:19):
Command.
And I would not have my militarycareer but for that ROTC
resource founding UCA.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
Yeah.
So your military career, let'slet's stop there.
You were a student at UCA for9-11 during 9-11.
Right.
So what do you remember aboutthat moment?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
I was in Burdick Business Building.
It's funny you bring that up.
I I don't share the story toooften.
Um I was in Burdick Business andaccounting, uh, accounting
class, uh, accounting one.
And I walked out and a friend ofmine called.
It was like um old Nokia cellphone.
He said, You gotta come over andcheck this thing out.
And I went to his apartment andjust in time to catch the second
(09:56):
plane.
And um, and uh yeah, so fastforward, my story is not
dissimilar to many.
Ultimately, what matters is thaton Thursday I was in the
recruiter's just a couple dayslater.
I didn't know why.
Uh I didn't know I I guess Iknew why.
I didn't understand that thatwould that that event Tuesday
9-11 would ignite a spark in methe way that it did, but I was
(10:17):
pretty quick to lean into that.
I didn't know where it wouldtake me.
Certainly had no reason tobelieve that I'd be here 25
years later, uh, still in, stillcontinuing to serve.
But uh, but it set a lot ofthings in motion.
And so yeah, I took a littlehiatus from UCA, uh, went off to
basic and AIT and OSITS, we callit, became a combat engineer and
(10:38):
and served as an enlistedsoldier for some time before
coming back to UCA and finishingmy undergraduate degree in 2004,
uh, simultaneously earning thatcommission as a second
lieutenant and starting that bigphase two of my journey in the
reserve and Arkansas NationalGuard uh as a commission
officer.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
So, if not for 9-11, then what did you intend to do
with your life?
What what career did youenvision for yourself?
What were you going to be whenyou uh when you left the
university?
SPEAKER_01 (11:06):
No idea, buddy.
I think I mentioned to you on9-11.
I was in Burdick BusinessBuilding uh that morning,
beautiful morning.
And um and I think at the time Iwas a business major, but I
think prior to that I dabbled inenvironmental science, maybe,
maybe and history.
Uh history scared me off becausethere was too much reading and
writing, and I didn't have thepatience for that.
(11:26):
I think environmental science, II got into organic chemistry and
nope, zipped out of that prettyquickly.
I think me and accounting didn'tclick.
It wasn't until later I foundgeography and the geography
department UCA.
And all of a sudden I became astraight A student.
And I knew I was just wiseenough in my 20s to know that
when something feels easy, itjust clicks.
(11:47):
Probably on the right path.
Like, follow that, follow thatinstinct.
And so um Jeff, Jeff Allen orPaul Buddh, Jerry Reynolds,
Brooks Green, like the team thatwas around in the geography
department in that era in thelate 90s and early 2000s.
Not not to suggest that the teamnow is a great, but Mary Sue
Paste Smith, like that that teamjust uh really was amazing and
(12:09):
it and they inspired me.
And I didn't know what I wasgonna do with a geography degree
either.
I assumed I was gonna come uphere and go to grad school and
maybe become a professor myself.
Um but uh but I part of thatgeography degree led me to an
internship at Conway City Hall,and that internship ended with a
job offer.
And uh at the time I think itwas something like$29,000 a year
(12:30):
to be a junior playing or a GIStech on the team.
And I thought, you know, Ithought I was rich.
Yeah,$29,000 a year.
Where do I sign?
And so that kept me.
That was uh that was when Icommitted to staying in Conway.
Uh and that that supported, Iimmediately went to Tap
Townshill, incredible mayor, alongtime mayor of the city of
Conway.
And I went to my boss, BrianPatrick, and Tap Townshill and I
(12:51):
said, Hey, can I can I go tograd school part-time?
Can they let me escape City Hallfor an hour or two here and
there and start graduate school?
And and they did.
And so I went right back to UCA,marched right back across to
Onnegee, back into class in thecommunity.
At the time, it was atraditional master's of science
and community and economicdevelopment and uh and started
down that grad school path andand completed the community
(13:13):
development institute as part ofit.
Later went on to teach adjunctin both of those departments
after graduation.
And uh, I don't think that MSCEDprogram is there anymore, but
uh, but it was instrumental tomy success all while I was um
back at City Hall and learninghow to be a city planner.
SPEAKER_00 (13:29):
Yeah, of course, um, you know, CDI, you mentioned the
the institute is is obviouslystill there, it's still
thriving.
It's still uh uh coming up on a40-year anniversary, if you can
believe that or not.
What a gift to our state andregion to have CDI.
Yeah, sends economic developers,municipal leaders all across the
state and other states as well.
And so I've gotten to know uh,you know, Nathan C.
(13:49):
the mayor at P Ridge, and uhTrish Way at the at the water
utility, and just so many peopleup here who who uh you know that
I knew from the business journaland they hear me UCA, first
thing out of their mouth.
Ooh, community developmentinstitute.
I love CDI, big believer in CDI.
SPEAKER_01 (14:03):
Yeah.
Well, I have uh of note, um, oneof our staff members at at ULI,
our director of operations,Megan Brown, I just told her
your professional development,your next professional
development uh uh uh target isCDI.
So she's applying the newNorthwest Arkansas cohort, the
second cohort coming up.
Yep.
Uh continue to lean into that asan opportunity, uh, invaluable
(14:25):
experience to those leaders.
And again, the second and thirdorder ripple effects across our
state and region, what it meansto UCA and what it means to the
communities that UCA servesthrough the CDI experience uh
touches countless lives.
Again, it's a gift.
SPEAKER_00 (14:39):
All right.
So you you came to NorthwestArkansas in 2019, I think, for
the job at um at ULI.
That's right.
Before that, you spent 10 yearsat City Hall in Conway, city
planner.
Eventually, what what what's itlike?
What do people misunderstandabout what a city planner does?
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Well, it's well, that's presuming I know what
they understand.
So I want to be cautious abouttrying to live in anyone else's
mind.
Um, but I will say that thatbeing a city planner is uh at it
it's electrifying, right?
Especially in a city like Conwayat that era from the mid-2000s
to the mid-teens when I wasthere.
And I got the chance to dobasically every job in the in
(15:17):
the department.
So um comprehensive look andtouches on on a period of Conway
growth that was reallyinstrumental to who Conway is
today, right?
I was there when we clicked the50,000 population mark that set
a lot of outside investment inplay, interstate interchanges
and um institutional capitalhitting our landscape with
(15:39):
hotels and restaurants andshopping centers and more.
Um, and our at the same time,the city and the chamber were
being very deliberate aboutinvesting in downtown and making
downtown a destination.
Uh, the the voters of the cityof Conway were supporting bond
referendums for park spendingand the industrial park and
more.
And so it was, I was there at amoment, Paul, when we were
(16:00):
flooded with gross.
And what a great place to be,from the junior staffer uh all
the way to one of the senioradvisors uh to city council and
the mayor to be a part of that.
Um, it made me by and large, uhit was instrumental in making me
the built environmentprofessional that I am today,
complimented, of course, bycommunity and economic
(16:22):
development master's degree andand leadership in the army and
more at CDI, like we talkedabout.
But but it was an incredibledecade there in Conway.
Um the role of the city planneris a delicate one because we at
once uh need to be tuned in tothis the citizenry, right?
(16:44):
Uh the citizenry gets a vote inhow their city grows and shapes
uh over the horizon.
And so how do we stay tuned intothe citizenry while
simultaneously being tuned in toum the political climate because
it matters.
We've got to get policies acrossthe line, comprehensive growth
strategies and more, projectsacross the line.
(17:05):
And that demands you get, youknow, planning commission and
city council on board.
Uh we've got to make sure thatwhat we do is feasible and
reasonable and acceptable sothat you can get get the work
done.
And then you're trying to strikea balance with um with best
practices.
What are the what what do weknow from case studies in
similar cities?
(17:26):
What is working and not workingin other places?
We have grand visions, but howdo you get the rubber to the
road, right?
And there are systems andprocesses, just like there are
in every industry and everytrade and every career.
There are systems and processesand practices that we need to
stay true to, um, the ethos ofthe professional planner, if you
will, code of ethics, right?
(17:47):
And and how do we stay true tothose to make sure that we avoid
any minefields along the way andexposure to the city along the
way.
And so being a planner is ismuch like is much like walking a
tightrope and maintaining abalance between all of those
stakeholder groups and points offriction and interest.
And it's it's it's puzzlesolving every day and it's a lot
(18:10):
of fun.
Not not without its challenges,and you don't always get it
right, no question about it.
But but it is a lot of fun.
And when you do get it right,you believe that you've shaped
something that may you may notsee in your working life.
Like the the the story arc of acity planner is measured in
generational scale, right?
And so sometimes the policy orprojects that we would advance
(18:32):
may not show up materially for20 or 40 years on the landscape
in a way that's affecting thecommunity in in a positive way.
And so, so it is neverthelessfulfilling, but it's a long play
on fulfilling.
And uh that's one of the it'sone of the most beautiful parts
to me.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Is that still part of your work here?
I mean, to to get people tothink uh past just their next
project.
I mean, you're you're thinkingin the future.
Is that the biggest challenge?
Is that a challenge?
SPEAKER_01 (18:57):
Yeah, that's what I do.
I mean, at ULI right now, that'sthat's primarily where we live.
So um we'll share with you thatwe are right now really
committed to helping this regionunderstand where the market is,
right?
Like where where do we seecapital deploying?
Because capital is the grease.
When when that when those uhdebt partners and equity
(19:20):
partners show up and choose tomake an investment in a project,
um that that gets the the thewheels in motion, right?
Um where is the infrastructuregoing?
Effectively, thoseinfrastructure decisions can be
like capital partners, right?
So what's the state highwaydepartment doing?
(19:41):
What is the Beaver WaterDistrict doing?
What are other wastewaterproviders like NACA doing?
What are the individualmunicipalities doing with the
utilities and the transportationinfrastructure that they
control?
And then what is the what is therole of zoning and regulation,
right?
Uh and how does that regulatoryenvironment um support uh
(20:03):
entitlement, especiallyfriction-free entitlement?
Uh, how do we do we havepredictability in the
entitlement processes?
And and then what's the role ofthe citizen?
Like genuinely, what's in thebest interest of the citizenry
in terms of creating choice?
How do we move around thelandscape?
Choice, what sort of house mightbe available?
Is it affordable andarchitecturally?
(20:24):
Does it support the needs of myfamily?
What's its location?
What is the location of theplaces where we're growing for
our citizenry?
Uh, what does that mean to howthe region behaves collectively?
Uh, access to good services,amenities, social bonding,
public health outcomes, uh,right down to to like how the
natural world around us isbehaving.
How are we maintaining openspaces?
(20:46):
How are we managing ourstormwater?
Um, where are we moving our ouruh refuse?
Um, and and what is the role ofrecreation, right?
And tourism.
And so all of these pieces kindof have to find a way to nest
like a puzzle, right?
And it is complex and it ishard.
And ULI right now, as much asanything we're doing, we are
(21:07):
we're we are we are sustainingour presence as a neutral
convener that brings togetherall of those stakeholder groups
as frequently as possible totalk about these challenges.
How do we get these, how do wesee the puzzle pieces?
What puzzle pieces might bemissing?
Do we understand, like you wouldlike on the the cardboard front
(21:28):
of a puzzle, do we have a visualfor where we think this thing is
going?
Who's holding what piece?
Where does it fit and when?
It's it's a complex and and andit's necessary.
I think fundamentally it'snecessary to do this.
It's hard.
It's full of friction, it's fullof uncertainty and complexity.
And uh and when you're doingregional scale planning and
(21:50):
development initiatives acrossuh all sectors, public sector,
private sector, and more.
Um it's hard.
But it's never it's sonecessary.
Because if we don't, we Justkind of grow accidentally, and
various stakeholder resourcesmight just simply begin to flow
towards their path of leastresistance.
And that's normal for all of us,I think.
(22:10):
And then we end up with a placethat doesn't feel cohesive.
It doesn't feel made.
And moreover, and worse, itstarts to erode a sense of who
we are.
This thing that makes NorthwestArkansas so special, where we
can balance a great builtenvironment right next door to a
great natural environment.
Everybody's got choice, right?
(22:31):
Where I live, what can I afford,how I move around my landscape,
um, amenity-rich environment.
Do I feel like I find myself inthe identity of Northwest
Arkansas?
All of these things are soimportant and we don't want to
lose that.
That's the secret sauce, right?
And I think Northwest Arkansasis as good as I've ever seen at
regional collaboration.
And uh, and I think it's it'sour biggest strength, in fact.
(22:55):
And I am so grateful, sothankful to lead an organization
with a mission as important asULI and be right in the middle
of it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
If so, if the work is hard and it's a complex
puzzle every day when you go towork, where do you find the
enjoyment of that?
What what what is the what isthe the biggest payoff for you
in the work that you do?
SPEAKER_01 (23:13):
People.
I think I'm people first kind ofguy.
I um uh it fills me up.
You know, I'll like I look at mythe ULI board.
Um, for example, I look at theULI board and I see we have
mayors and we have executiveleaders from the private sector,
uh, we have academics on ourboard.
(23:34):
Um we have uh industry tradesprofessionals, right?
Senior leaders um from variousdisciplines throughout, uh other
nonprofiteers, you name it.
And they're all incredible.
Everybody here, uh everybody inthe ULI world that I get to
interact with, uh they're muchlike me.
They're really committed tomaking Northwest Arkansas the
(23:56):
best it can be.
They are they all believe thatour built environment matters,
that how we choose to consumeand build atop this landscape
will either improve the qualityof life of everyone that calls
this place home and the economicopportunities that exist
therein, or it starts to erodethat.
And we all show up with passionand resolve and a commitment to
(24:17):
spend the majority of our wakinghours solving this puzzle.
As complex and difficult as itis, uh, it's it's important and
it's necessary if we're gonnacontinue to be our best and
achieve our fullest potentialregionally.
So those people, those leaders,those thinkers, those doers,
those action ninjas out thereevery day fighting the good
(24:38):
fight, they inspire me.
And uh and I'm so deeplygrateful to be in their presence
every day.
There's a lot of other goodthings I could say, but I think
I am a people first guy, and Ilove the network of leaders that
I get to uh that I get to callfriends and colleagues.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yeah, we've got a great network of of uh leaders
here.
And you mentioned regionalismand and the fact that it works
so well here uh and it has for30 years.
That's that's how we've beenable to do a lot of things.
You came from Central Arkansas.
You were heavily involved in incentral Arkansas municipal
leadership.
And what is the I'm not askingyou to directly compare, but
(25:16):
what is the difference?
Why, why does regionalism workhere and maybe doesn't work in
some other areas, not justcentral Arkansas, but what is
what is the secret toregionalism uh taking hold here?
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
I'm gonna give you a hunch.
I don't know if it's valid.
I mean, it's a thoroughassessment of a lifetime of
doing this work.
Um, I think it's informed hunch.
Um but it but it is only mine.
It is only my hunch.
Maybe invalid.
Um I think there are two thingsthat come to mind.
I've thought about this a fairbit because it is definitely
distinguishable.
(25:49):
This is a distinguishableartifact.
Regionalism is is more effectivehere than it is in central
Arkansas.
Um fundamentally, I thinkCentral Arkansas historically is
a um is a monocentric metro.
And as many monocentric metrosum faced in the mid-20th
century, late 20th century,there was a lot of flight out of
(26:09):
Little Rock.
And over time, those satellitecommunities, yes, northwest
north, North Little Rock upclose, but I'm really talking
about Lono County, uh FaulknerCounty, and Saline County here.
Um, they began to take on anidentity of their own and really
become proud.
And in many ways, looking atConway, quite firewall.
(26:29):
Conway's got an economy and ahealthcare system and an
education system and a qualityof life.
And Conway's got every strengthnecessary to serve, to be on its
own with or without thisanchoring city called Little
Rock.
Now, that may not have alwaysbeen the case, but put a hundred
years into evolution, and it is.
And I think that's true for alot of the other cities, maybe
not to the scale of Conway, butbut there's a pride associated
(26:51):
with being bitten or Bryant orCabot or Conway or Maul Mel or
even North Rock and even thesmaller suburbs.
So, so I think historically justthe growth of a monocentric with
the flight that occurred in thelate 20th century um set
conditions differently.
Now you look up here and yousee, uh, especially over the
(27:11):
recent past, a very polycentricmetro with the big four cities,
and now more than half of ourgrowth is occurring outside
those big four cities.
Majority of housing starts andpopulation is now arriving in
the roughly two dozenmunicipalities that surround the
big four.
But it breeds, it I think, Ithink just being a polycentric
metro inspires regionalism,right?
(27:33):
Um, our growth inspires acentral uh sense of regionalism
because we welcome newcomers.
We're all so many of us have anewcomer story, some a little
bit older than others, but butvery few of us, in fact, now can
say, I was born here.
I'm multi-generational NorthwestArkansas.
Uh and so there's a spirit ofwelcome, you know, a spirit of
openness associated.
(27:55):
Um, so I think all those worktogether, the historic ebb and
flow of how the metros growmonocentrically and
polycentrically.
I think they play a role.
The second major reason isbecause you've got you got key
leaders.
I mean, I look back at thefounding of the council and when
the choice was made um by those,you know, those Northwest
Arkansas founding fathers, ifyou will.
Um, you know, uh, you've gotobviously Sam Walton and JB Hunt
(28:18):
and Don Hyson, and you say umthey made they made the
statement we're staying.
But if we're gonna stay, wegotta, we gotta, we gotta change
a few things and we're gonnahave to work to get us an
interstate.
We're gonna have to work to uhupdate this airport and get it
out of Drake Field, and andwe're gonna have to make some
investments that create theworkforce that we need and
attract the workforce that weneed and more and more.
(28:41):
And I think that set the compassuh for regional collaboration in
a way that it might not haveexisted otherwise, but for those
leaders coming together andestablishing the council.
Um, because now, right throughwhere we are today, in things
like the Razor Back Greenway andand regional coordination on
growth strategy, the regionalgrowth strategy that the council
(29:03):
is getting ready to submit onthis spring and share with the
public this spring and more.
The list goes on and on.
The number of regionalinitiatives that were birthed
because those that decision wasmade, I think it's unique to
Northwest Arkansas.
I don't think it happens in manyother places, and it's a forcing
function that makes ourjurisdictions partner and
collaborate over importantregional issues.
(29:25):
That that that rising tide sortof spirit that exists, that
what's good for Springdale isalso good for Rogers, Fayeville,
and Bentonville uh and and more.
Um, that attitude is isinstrumental to our success.
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
All right.
So yeah, you mentioned thecouncil just celebrated their
35th anniversary and all thatthey've accomplished.
I mean, they've it it's it's uhit's uh when you put it on a
list and just the things thatyou just rattled off there uh is
not even half.
Uh it's just an incredibleorganization and convener.
So let's look ahead 15, 20years.
You know, if we the work you'redoing and a lot of our other
(29:59):
regional leaders are doing, ifwe get this right, yeah, you
know, what is what doesNorthwest Arkansas look like in
15 or 20 years?
And if we don't, what are therisks?
What are the where could we slipthrough the cracks?
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Well, I I I started using this phrase, the Northwest
Arkansas promise.
And here's how I define it ifyou live in Northwest Arkansas,
there there's a an implicitpromise that has been made to
you that you're joining a metrowhere um where you have close
access to good services andamenities, where you have access
(30:32):
to great education and greatemployment, generally safe
environment, where you haveaccess to um the great outdoors,
just out your backyard, andwhere you have access to
world-class entertainment, umwhere where all of these things
can coexist in one place andit's an affordable uh qual, it's
(30:54):
affordable life, right?
Like you can find a home thatyou can afford that complements
your needs and lifestyle in aplace that you want to live and
right out your doorstep, goodservices, amenities, recreation,
jobs, all of it.
And and that is a promise thatwe're we're really good at
making good on in northwestArkansas.
I think we have to ask ourselvesum, is it a given that that
(31:16):
promise will be here in 20 or 30years for our kids and
grandkids?
And that is not a given.
I want to be crystal clear aboutthat.
There's no layups, right?
It is hard work, it is puzzlesolving every single day.
If we're gonna maintain thispromise with a straight face and
make good on it when peoplearise, it's it's our small uh
(31:38):
right now.
I think our our big citiescouldn't be prouder of.
Um, I'm thinking a lot about oursmall cities right now.
They're growing so rapidly.
And I'm looking at you, MayorFalkberry Grove, Mayor C P.
Ridge, and I'm looking at you,Mayor Knoblett, and in Cave
Springs and Mayor Edwards andCenterton and more.
And I hate to leave anybody out.
I don't mean to do it onpurpose.
(32:00):
I I could rattle off two dozenif I need it, but but you all
are the future of this region,right?
And you're gonna continue,you're already receiving the
lion's share of residents, andyou're gonna continue to receive
the lion's share of residents.
I do not think we're gonna putthe toothpaste back in the tube.
I think we have evolved to thespillover model.
And in Northwest Arkansas is nowgonna see those suburbs thrive
(32:22):
around the big four at anincreasing pace.
The challenge we face, Paul, ishow do we not make them all the
same bedroom community?
You and I can right now get on aplane or a bus and go visit
dozens and dozens of metros thatare a generation ahead of us on
the growth curve.
And I can put a blindfold on youand I can drop you in the middle
(32:44):
of any of their suburbs and askyou to tell me which one you're
in.
And I defy you to do it.
Because so often, those suburbancommunities that surround the
primary metro, whether it'smonocentric with one big city or
polycentric like our big four,very often those suburbs start
growing in very similar ways.
And you move, you fast forward ageneration or two, and they all
(33:07):
start to look and feel the same.
And I don't know that thatthey're achieving the promise
necessarily out there in thesuburbs of those metros that are
a generation or two ahead of us.
I know they're not achievingtheir fullest potential of
distinctive character and adistinctive identity in many of
the suburbs and metros aroundthe country.
(33:28):
I believe that if we are goingto continue to make this
Northwest Arkansas promise topeople who haven't arrived yet,
and we're going to make good onit.
Well, when they get here, wemust at the fastest pace
possible be investing in theplanning and growth management
capacity of the two, roughly twodozen small cities that surround
the big four.
(33:49):
And we have to help themunderstand what makes them
unique and desirable.
What is their comparableadvantage to the next suburb, a
short five or 10 minute drivedown the highway, and what
decisions we can be making forourselves to ensure that we grow
on an amenity-rich environment,where people have a variety of
housing and mobility choice thatis affordable, where we can
(34:11):
offer the same educational andrecreational promises that the
big four cities can, where wecan stay in front of our
infrastructure and growthmanagement challenges and we
have the bonding capacity totake care of our own.
When we can help the smallcities scale at the speed they
need to and achieve that levelof capacity where they can be
distinguishable and they can beproud of who they are and they
(34:33):
can meet the growth needs, thenI think we're definitely headed
down the right path to makingsure our children and
grandchildren will achieve thesame promise that we've been
able to achieve.
SPEAKER_00 (34:40):
Yeah.
Well, you I'm going to stickwith this puzzle analogy that
we've got going.
And you just rattled um a lot ofthe most important pieces off,
right?
Uh, you know, transportation andconnectivity, you know, housing
mix and affordability and andinfrastructure and pace of
growth.
And then uh the the importantone that you obviously think and
I do too, identity of thesetowns versus the scale.
(35:03):
So I'm gonna put you on the spothere then.
You know, which of those puzzlepieces is the most important?
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
I um I think I think it I would have to defer to a
given community to identify Imean I the infrastructure is
just gonna be a critical pieceof it.
It's just gonna be uh, you know,ULI published our trends, our
emerging trends and real estatereport on January 15th.
It's out on our website.
I encourage people to go take alook at it.
(35:33):
Um, it should come as nosurprise what I'm about to say.
Infrastructure.
We we listened to focus groups,did surveys, interviews, went
through uh Co-Star data.
And infrastructure is justdriving the conversation right
now.
And um, we've got to ensure thatinfrastructure is a place that's
both street um and also waterand utility services, uh
(35:54):
stormwater as well.
Um that that is a very expensivechallenge.
Um and it is it is all too oftenum not met.
And so growth occurs.
You know, the development, thewater development is going to
flow downhill.
And if you've got a lot ofavailable land, farmland out
there that can be bought up andturned into residential
(36:16):
subdivisions, um, that that ishard inertia to stop.
And very often, and this isn'tjust a northwest Arkansas story,
it's an America story.
Very often that growth occursbefore the infrastructure is
fully prepared to serve it.
And so we end up growing in away that's not particularly
resilient.
You know, we we we can maybematch the pace of that growth
(36:39):
with a little bit of stormwaterinfrastructure.
Maybe we can we can build aroad, but it's got open ditches
instead of curb and gutter.
Um, maybe we can't, we can'tquite get the lit streets out
there, can't afford thesidewalks, you know, but but
we'll at least topcoat thatcounty road and we'll get it out
there to where that subdivisionis.
And that's a tenuous bargain.
It's a very tenuous bargainbecause the growth is going to
(37:00):
continue to come and theinfrastructure needs to be
robust enough to be to tosupport that growth in a
resilient way.
Simultaneously, the tax baseserves as infrastructure.
And so, how do we help thesesmall cities not simply grow as
residential bedroom communitiesof the big four, but grow in a
way that they have their own taxbase?
(37:21):
In the state of Arkansas, ourcity jurisdictions are pay, they
pay the bills with sales taxprimarily, like overwhelming.
Uh overwhelmingly, they pay withsales tax.
Well, if they're just bedroomcommunities, are they getting
the grocery stores and therestaurants?
Are they getting the hotels?
Are they getting any other ofthose cash registers necessary
so they can pay for police andfire and sanitation and all the
(37:41):
other services, even amenitieslike parks and more?
So infrastructure and tax base,I think, is critically
important.
But as far as identity goes andzoning and how you want to build
your built environment, um,what's our what's the role of
open space and and bikes andpedestrian underbuilt
environment?
Those are important questions.
I think they're secondary to totax base and infrastructure.
(38:02):
Um, and they are best left forthose communities to answer for
themselves.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Are you a bike rider?
Are you a cyclist?
Very much.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Very serious people for to work or to recreate or
both or all of the above onoccasion when possible.
I call East, uh, we're near EastFayville, as I call it.
If anybody knows the area, baseof Mount Sequoia, Reed
Elementary, Gully Park, all thatthat area.
Um, I'm blessed.
And um, we just city ofFayville, the the the
transportation infrastructurecomplemented by the recreation
(38:30):
infrastructure, it's incredible.
Uh and it is right on our backdoor.
So when uh always riderecreationally, but when
feasible, uh, yeah, I'll ride,I'll ride a commute to a meeting
or whether it's with staff oranother ULI partner, whatever it
is for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Feasibility, does that include a temperature
threshold either way?
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Uh, the older I get, uh, I don't know if it's a blood
pressure thing or what, butthese colder days, it is a
barrier to entry, Paul.
No doubt about it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:56):
That's great.
You and your your why family,what do you love most about
raising a family in umFayetteville?
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
The promise.
I mean, I love Fayetteville.
We chose it on purpose.
Uh, we we shopped around allfour of the cities when we were
shopping for homes in 2018.
Um, nothing against any of them.
Uh Rogers, for example, remindsme an awful lot of downtown
Conway.
We would have loved them indowntown Rogers.
Bentonville, mountain bikingfamily, obviously wonderful
there.
Um, Springdale loved the arts,loved the multicultural scene.
(39:24):
It was affordable at the time.
Fundamentally, we choseFayetteville.
Uh, it was a mature city, had itoffered a lot of amenities.
We like the college town vibe.
I acknowledge it's not foreverybody, but uh, but we love
the fresh air as students ebband flow through our community.
We love the quiet summers.
Sure.
But I don't, I'm not displeasedwhen students are around either.
It's a it's a nice vibe.
Uh, and at the time,importantly, very alien, very
(39:46):
importantly, at the time, mywife was uh still working for
UAMS.
She'd moved her research from uhfrom the Little Rock campus to
the Fayetteville campus, and shedid put her foot down and say,
I've been commuting from Conwayto Little Rock long enough.
I am ready to shorten commute.
And so that was a big decidingvote in why we chose
Fayetteville.
Love it, don't regret it.
I think Fayetteville's wherewe've planted roots, and um, and
(40:07):
it's where our 12-year-old sonwill call him.
It'll be his hometown.
Yeah.
And I couldn't be prouder ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
Let's go back to that last item that I read in
your bio about the fly fishing.
Yeah.
Uh a fishing guide.
You, you, that's that's beenpart of who you are growing up,
and and was it was a businessfor you at one point.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
It was.
It was actually bigger than flyfishing.
So I ran an adventure travelcompany for uh for a period of
time back in the 2000s.
We focused on vehicle-basedtravel.
Now it's taking the form ofoverlanding these days.
I was way too early to themarket on that.
But fundamentally, uh, we wouldwe would invite folks out um to
the Ozark and the WashingtonNational Forest, and we would
(40:44):
help them use their tools.
Like folks have a Jeep or theyhave some camping gear, but they
they may not necessarily befully comfortable in in using
those tools in the greatoutdoors.
And so leveraging my armyexperience and some other
relationships around the region,we would, we'd take folks out on
adventure trips, long weekends,and uh we would we would do some
off-roading.
We talk about how to build afire, how to do wilderness first
(41:06):
aid, how to communicate in thebackcountry with ham radios uh
and more.
And yep, fishing was a part ofthat, but fishing's been a part
of my life since I was a littlekid.
I grew up on a cattle farm, youknow, fishing in the ponds to uh
to to where I am today.
I got a fishing boat, a littleriver skiff, and and I still
love getting out.
I can I can't say I've ever beena paid guide.
I've been a adventure travelguide, um, but I've never been a
(41:29):
paid fishing guide.
But maybe for retirement I can Ican do it.
I think if I do, it'll betargeting kids and veterans, uh
helping people um discover thejoy of fishing.
Uh, but um, but but that's aretirement goal.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
How do you leverage?
You mentioned leveraging yourarmy experience.
How do you do that into yourwork with ULI?
Like you're a convener, like youmentioned, not just here.
I mean, ULI just hosted anational event, right?
With people from all over thecountry and the world came here.
And, you know, if what if onething we know how to do in
Northwest Arkansas, it'ssummits, right?
It's gatherings.
We have large-scale gatheringsfor whatever your your stated
(42:04):
purpose is.
So, how do you leverage yourmilitary background in in
approaching how you uh approachyour work with ULI?
SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
So uh it's invaluable.
I didn't, you know, I joined for9-11, got the call to serve, uh,
acknowledged that it's anadventure.
I didn't know what to expect.
I really leaned in, tookadvantage of what it was,
leveraged all of the benefits tomy benefit.
Um, you know, I'm no dummy.
Um the Army's put a lot into me.
Little did I know that theleadership, education, the
(42:35):
pillars of professionaldevelopment in the Army, the
institutional, the operational,and the self-development pillars
uh would shape who I become as aleader and a manager of
organizations and operations.
And I think it's on display uhin virtually everything I do.
I I tone it down.
I don't, I don't want to have amilitary presence among my staff
(42:55):
team at ULI, nor among any ofour partners and and friends.
Um, so I I do my best to codeswitch, but but functionally,
structurally, everything that Iknow about um leading and
managing large organizations incomplex and uncertain
environments with limitedresources and uncertain partners
(43:19):
and um uh yeah, uh big goals.
Everything I know aboutleadership and management, I
chalk up to what the Army hasinvested in me.
And it's one of the reasons Icontinue to stay in to this day
because Dark Soul Army NationalGuard is it is dense with
incredible leaders, men andwomen doing every available uh
(43:40):
operational specialty occupationyou could think of, all mentors
to me.
There's not a weekend I don't godown or a week of training or a
conference somewhere or adeployment.
Um still doing those every fiveor so years.
Well, there's not an experiencein uniform that doesn't make me
better because of it.
And I try to bring those lessonsand those fundamentals back and
(44:04):
employ them in maybe moresensitive ways, uh, a little
more civilian code.
Uh, but but I try to bring itback because I believe in it.
I think the army is really goodat doing hard things well.
And uh Lord knows trying to helpthis region deliver the deliver
itself uh the best uh deliver aform the best it can be is
(44:26):
definitely a hard challenge.
And yeah, yeah, I'm very, verygrateful to um to everything
that shaped me, inclusionmilitary and UCA more.
SPEAKER_00 (44:34):
Right.
Great, that's great stuff.
Well, real uh I reallyappreciate um the conversation.
And I think it's gonna resonatewith some people who who uh have
uh an interest in, you know,look, we're going so fast up
here.
We are uh we're we're trying tomanage a lot of different things
and a lot of different groupslike yours and others are trying
to um uh to help manage thoseand help plan and and help us
(44:55):
deliver on that promise.
So where can people keep up withwith you and and your work and
what the ULI does uh forwatching this or listening to
this right now?
SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
Arkansas.ui.org.
Okay.
If uh if you want to uh if youwant to be involved, and this
goes for anybody.
Generally we work withprofessionals and and industry
disciplines, but but we love tohear from Joe and Jane public
too.
The citizen gets a vote, and wewe are definitely tuned in.
Uh, welcome anybody who wants tobe engaged in influencing and
(45:26):
shaping and and dialoguing aboutthe future of this region's
built environment.
Encourage you to lean into ULI.
Swing by our website.
You can subscribe to thenewsletter at the bottom of any
of our web pages, keep up withwhat we're doing, and definitely
find us on LinkedIn, Instagram,and Facebook.
Join us for an event or justsimply drop us a note.
We'd love to hear from you.
SPEAKER_00 (45:47):
Yeah, I mean, that's you know, anyone who cares about
the long-term uh health andsuccess of this region, right?
Um, that's the perspective youthat you had today.
That's exactly the kind of um avoice that we want to have on
our podcast for not only our UCAaudience, but our Northwest
Arkansas audience.
So um really appreciate whatyou're doing.
Thanks for spending some timewith us today and continued
(46:08):
success.
It was a great conversation.
SPEAKER_01 (46:09):
Paul, we certainly appreciate all that you're doing
and grateful to the entire UCAfamily for choosing to make this
presence in Northwest Arkansas.
I think it's very important andthankful for my, not just my own
experience at UCA, but for allyou stand for as an institution.
Keep up the great work.
SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
All right, awesome.
Appreciate you.
Thanks for saying that.
All right, we appreciateeverybody tuning into this
edition of Central to NWA.
Until next time, go Bears.
Go Bears.
That's it for this episode ofCentral to NWA, a UCA podcast.
I'm Paul Gatling, SeniorDirector of Northwest Arkansas
Engagement for the University ofCentral Arkansas.
(46:45):
Be sure to subscribe to the showand follow UCA on all the
appropriate social media.
I'll see you next time onCentral to NWA.
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