Host Johnny Burke interviews Danielle Worthen Cullumber, a paranormal investigator, psychic medium, clinical social worker, and founder of Willow Medella Wellness, about blending trauma therapy with mind-body-spirit healing. Danielle describes realizing her mediumship at 19 through precognitive and lucid dreams, then deepening it after a post-death dream conversation with an aunt who died by suicide, followed by ongoing communications with other family members. She discusses suicide stigma, observing loved ones’ continued growth “across the veil,” and experiencing “soul contracts,” especially after multiple family deaths in 2019 that intensified her gifts and led her to holistic spiritual support. Danielle recounts witnessing “welcoming parties” during transitions, differentiates earthbound spirits from crossed-over visitors, and explains astral travel and dream states. She co-founded Rocky Mountain Utah Paranormal in 2007, emphasizing ethical investigations, trauma awareness, and decolonizing historical narratives, and shares ways anyone can notice signs from deceased loved ones.
00:00 Meet Danielle Worthen Cullumber
00:36 Early Mediumship Signs
03:17 Aunt Visit Lucid Dream
05:46 Suicide Afterlife Healing
08:10 Soul Contracts Awakening
11:59 Paranormal Social Worker
13:08 Hospice Welcoming Party
14:47 Joining Investigations Team
17:09 Trauma Energy In Spaces
20:02 Ethics And Boundaries
22:02 Earthbound Vs Crossed
24:08 Astral Travel And Dreams
25:37 Bridging Science And Spirit
27:10 Signs From Loved Ones
29:21 Key Lessons And Farewell
https://www.willowmedelawellness.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Johnny Burke (00:01):
Welcome to Closer to Venus.
I'm Johnny Burke, and today'sguest is Danielle Worthen
Columber.
She is a paranormalinvestigator, psychic medium,
clinical social worker, andfounder of Willow Medella
Wellness.
In this episode, we'll discusshow she developed her mediumship
as well as how she employs hermediumship and paranormal
(00:23):
investigations.
Danielle, welcome to theprogram.
Danniel Cullumber (00:26):
Thank you for having me.
Johnny Burke (00:28):
So, speaking of mediumship, when did you first
notice it?
Danniel Cullumber (00:32):
I became aware of it when I was 19.
I actually had a dream thatactually played out after having
such a dream.
It honestly freaked me out.
It's like, what's going on?
How is that possible?
I had always enjoyed ghoststories and wanted to go ghost
hunting.
I was always had that love forthe macabre kind of thing.
(00:56):
And with my birth being soclose to Halloween, it just fit
together.
My mediumship actually startedcoming in when I started
noticing more of these dreamsthat I was having coming true.
And started noticing thingsthat I couldn't explain as a
child.
Because I saw things when I wasa child, but I chalked it up to
(01:19):
just an active imagination likeanybody else.
I started noticing that I wouldhave these thoughts, like
random while driving, you know,how we kind of zone out.
I wonder about this.
I literally would think aboutsomething like something
happening in the media.
And within a day, I would getinformation about it or about
(01:40):
that person.
And I started reading booksfrom Sylvie Brown, John Edwards
to start with, and it just builtfrom there.
And I started realizing that Iwas finding patterns in what
they were talking about that Iwas experiencing.
Johnny Burke (01:54):
When you read books by Sylvia Brown and
others, you noticed the samethings that they were
experiencing.
Danniel Cullumber (02:00):
Similar or people they had talked to.
So because I loved ghoststories as well, I would ring
Holtz, he was a famous originalparanormal investigator back in
the day, he'd have a secondmedium named Sid, and she would
go into trances, and they woulduse that actually in their
investigations, and he wouldrecord what she said when she
(02:22):
was in a trance with the spiritof wherever the haunting was.
And I was like, this is socool.
I want to do that.
Be careful what you wish for.
You might get it.
Johnny Burke (02:32):
Now you mentioned something about dreams a moment
ago.
That's where you got the firstinclination that you had some
skills.
Did you make the connectionbetween the dream world and the
spirit world?
Or was that maybe a little bitlater in your development?
Danniel Cullumber (02:47):
It was later in my development because in
1998, my daughter was born inOctober, and I have an aunt who
struggled with mental illnessthat we weren't aware of, and
she had a lot of trauma history.
But she was my favorite aunt.
She was the closest in age tome because I was the oldest
(03:08):
grandchild.
I had wanted her to meet mydaughter.
Last time I saw my aunt was onHalloween, ironically.
And I had just given birththree weeks before, so I wasn't
bringing my daughter at such ayoung age at that time to a
party.
Two days after Christmas, myaunt passed away from suicide.
It shattered me.
(03:29):
And I had so many questions.
I'm like, why?
We had our funeral on NewYear's Eve, and I went to bed,
and the next morning in thepre-dawn hours, I was going into
one of my dreams, and there allof a sudden there's my aunt.
And I just thought I was justdreamy because I missed her, but
(03:49):
we ended up having aconversation, and I was like, oh
my gosh, this if this is real,I was still questioning if it
was real.
I was like, if this is real,I'm gonna ask the hard question.
I actually got to ask her why.
Johnny Burke (04:01):
Okay, so that experience it seems like you
were aware you were dreaming.
Is that true?
Danniel Cullumber (04:08):
In a matter of speaking, because you know
how sometimes when we wake upand we go back to sleep and
we're in that in-between statewhere we're both conscious of
it, and when you start kind ofgoing into dream, but you still
had control of it, I was in thatstate.
Johnny Burke (04:21):
That's a lucid dream though, right?
Danniel Cullumber (04:23):
Yeah, it's a very lucid dream.
And I've been having luciddreams since I was a child, so
this was not unusual.
But this was the first time Ihad a dead relative that I'm
aware of that I had aconversation with, and she
actually told me why.
And her answer actuallysurprised me.
Her answer was Danielle, Idon't know why then and I don't
(04:44):
know why now.
And I was like, okay.
And after that, my auntactually became more active in
communicating paranormally to meand kind of giving me clues
along the way, so she neverstopped talking to me.
Johnny Burke (04:59):
This is one of the um questions that is really
hard for us to talk about.
But one of the, I believe,possible misconceptions about
religious teachings is that whensomeone commits suicide, they
go to hell, they're damned.
And from what I've noticed fromconversations like this, is
(05:19):
that it's not necessarily true.
Do you get the feeling thatyour aunt is in a good place
now?
Danniel Cullumber (05:25):
Oh, yeah.
I actually watched her evolvepositively, just like anybody
else.
So when you're in a dark space,and I'm not talking about like
in a purgatory necessarilyanything.
When we're in mental andemotionally in a dark place,
we're gonna lose thatvibrationally anyways.
And as she helped me, it helpedher.
(05:48):
And she grew energetically andemotionally and cognitively.
Johnny Burke (05:53):
And this is across the veil, obviously.
This is after the fact.
Danniel Cullumber (05:56):
And she's not the only p family member that
has passed away from suicidethat I've had.
Her younger brother passed awaya few years later.
Same situation.
My family struggles withbipolar and personality
disorders, and I even talked tomy uncle, and he's notorious for
playing tricks on me, so I havehim moving things and teasing
(06:19):
me.
Unfortunately, my youngerbrother also passed away from
suicide.
Actually, the anniversary isthis month, June of 2019, he
passed away.
He struggled mental illness.
That is not who he was, and itwas just something that happens
as part of the symptomologiesthat happen with it.
But it did not help meemotionally and spiritually
(06:41):
because I was a trauma therapistand I I couldn't prevent
helping my own family members.
It's it's a situational thing.
Johnny Burke (06:50):
It's a case by case thing, I would imagine.
Have you any experience withpast lives where in that life
between lives space where a lotof the soul agreements and soul
families agree on what rolethey're gonna play?
Danniel Cullumber (07:05):
You just gave me chills with that question.
Because what actually happenedin 2019, I had four family
members die in a matter of ninemonths.
Of course, my brother was amongthem.
And what I had discovered waswith each one passing, they were
completing a soul contract, andthey were supposed to support
me.
And my gifts got so strong andso huge that I was like, okay,
(07:31):
the reading of the books,watching second kids isn't gonna
cut it anymore.
It literally was like, I needsome support because I was a
closeted medium.
I was like, there has to bemore.
I gotta work on me spiritually.
So I ended up being guided, Iwould say, to a holistic group.
And I met a whole bunch ofother people like me, but with
(07:54):
different gifts, differentabilities.
And I had always wanted to dosocial work and therapy in the
paranormal world because Ialready was a ghost hunter that
I was going to support people inthat way.
What I didn't know was theywere also setting me up to meet
my second husband.
Johnny Burke (08:10):
Your family had a part in this.
Danniel Cullumber (08:12):
Yes.
So the soul contract was we hadto fulfill this part so you
could do this part.
But there was an interestingcaveat with soul contracts I
found out.
My father, who passed away ayear ago last September, he too
had a soul contract with me.
Had no idea until he passedaway.
He had actually came to visitme the day before he started to
(08:35):
transition.
And he was telling me he wastired, and I didn't realize that
he actually decided to stayhere on this side for three
years just to make sure I wasokay.
He also was able to help me seethings that I would have missed
out if he'd passed before then.
Johnny Burke (08:55):
Okay, so let's talk about the sole contract.
I don't have any doubt becauseI've heard this so many times
that this happens, but how didyou discover specifically, was
it when you were in a certaintype of space where your family
members told you what theagreement was, or was it
telepathic?
Was it a download?
(09:15):
How did that happen?
Danniel Cullumber (09:16):
It actually came in different formats.
In fact, it had been also otherpeople who had gifts.
Because my my family memberscan talk to me, but sometimes
it's just kind of nice to haveanother voice to talk to.
So another person that hadmediumship would talk to me.
Once they mentioned something,I'd get like a download of the
awareness in this holistic groupbecause I had access to so many
(09:40):
people that had different giftsand their healing process.
I also got to tap into theirawarenesses because one of my
gifts is I can kind of tune intovibrations of what people are
going through.
So it's one of my gifts also asa therapist.
I can actually look at somebodybefore I actually do the actual
diagnostic to prove whatthey're going through.
(10:02):
I may not know their story, Imay not know their background,
but my awareness of certainmental health illnesses or even
physical elements, I can pick upin my mediumship and my psychic
abilities.
Johnny Burke (10:17):
You know what that reminds me of?
People like you that have thatskill that work in hospice, and
they can basically see thewelcoming party literally.
Most likely in their mind'seye.
Sometimes they get all theClaire's and they can see it
too, and they can see thewelcoming party there to greet
the person as they pass.
Danniel Cullumber (10:38):
I've actually been on that receiving end when
they were transitioning, and Iactually was picking up on the
welcoming party.
Johnny Burke (10:46):
Oh, so you've seen it.
Danniel Cullumber (10:48):
Yeah, I think the first time I saw it was my
grandfather, my mom's father.
This is before my uncle passedaway from his suicide.
He came to visit, and I saw thehalf-form of a woman.
I described her skirt andeverything, and I explained, I
told my grandmother, and shegoes, Oh, I think that's my
mother-in-law.
And I never met her becauseshe'd passed away before he did,
(11:08):
but it would make sense why shewas there for her son.
In fact, it was the first timeI actually had a conversation
about my great-grandmother, whowas from Germany, and how she
was and who she was.
And I was like, I got to knowfamily members that had passed
over that I never had arelationship with on this side.
Johnny Burke (11:24):
And you never met them.
Danniel Cullumber (11:25):
Right.
I watched my formerfather-in-law's own father
transition.
I was literally was watchingthe beeps, and I watched his
wife stand up and go, she goes,I can't do this.
And she walked out.
I looked up at the thing, I sawthe fly line, and I literally
watched with my own eyes, notwith my gifts, I actually
watched the silhouette of whiteform of legs following his wife
(11:47):
out.
I went, That is cool.
I got so excited, just watcheda man that I had a great
relationship with justtransition.
His grandson, who was myhusband at the time, go, This is
it.
He was confused.
And I hear him all excited, andhe's having an existential
crisis at that very moment.
I was like, talk about a dayand night experience.
Johnny Burke (12:08):
That's pretty incredible, but it wasn't scary
though.
No.
No.
So let's talk about how you gotinvolved in paranormal
investigations.
How did that work?
Danniel Cullumber (12:19):
So I as I said, I had always loved ghost
hunting.
I literally had been studyingthis since I was in junior high.
In fact, while I was reading,that's how I actually got my
first paranormal attack fromsomething.
And it scared me pretty badly,I will be honest.
But I had been reading on howto do it, w the what not to do.
(12:41):
As I said, Holtz was like oldschool.
What they used to do during thespiritual movement, I was just
learning everything andanything.
And then one day, shortly aftermy son was born in 2006, so it
was almost 2007 when thishappened, I saw an ad in the
paper where they were invitingpotential paranormal
(13:03):
investigators to join a team.
And I'm glad I reached outbecause the woman I talked to
actually was trying to promoteit, but then she was actually
leaving that group because theyweren't being ethical.
So she had founded theparanormal group, Rocky Mountain
Utah Paranormal.
I joined as the historianbecause I had done so much
(13:25):
reading, especially localfolklore and history, that I had
a lot of information at myfingertips because I was such a
bergworm.
And the next thing I know,because we'd worked so well, she
made me the co-founder.
So I became the co-founder ofRocky Mountain Utah Paranormal
back in 2007.
And we started traveling,investigating, and we were
(13:48):
actually in Utah the firstnonprofit licensed with the
Department of Commerce in Utah.
So we were trying to doeverything ethical and clean
because so many of the shows outthere were actually causing
harm because it was all aboutthat propaganda.
You do this to get a reaction.
I was also learning that peoplewere having trauma responses
(14:10):
during during investigations andafter investigations because
these people would come in,cause a problem by either
disrupting the ecosystem in thehome, taunting the spirits.
Johnny Burke (14:22):
Not a good idea.
Danniel Cullumber (14:23):
Yeah.
Or even dismissing and notpathologizing the experiences
and accusing them of havingmental illness of those people
that were having theseexperiences.
I was a guest panel speaker onat FearCon here in Utah
pre-COVID, and I was talkingabout energy that's even left in
the rafters and stuff frompeople building buildings, not
just the land and everything.
(14:44):
But I was talking about thetrauma that people were
experiencing.
They didn't have coping skills.
And that was one of the issuesthat I was seeing was when you
aren't able to regulate, how areyou supposed to help yourself,
let alone something paranormalwhen you don't feel like you
have control?
Johnny Burke (15:01):
It sounds like when there is trauma in a space,
that energy can be left behind.
Danniel Cullumber (15:07):
Yeah.
We all have intuition becausewe call it our sixth sense, like
your gut instinct or anything.
It's just refining it.
And some people just know whena good deal's happening, they
don't question it.
They don't let the brainoverride the instinct or their
awareness.
So we can actually walk into aroom and know there's been a
fight without ever asking aquestion because it's like the
energy is charged in theenvironment.
Johnny Burke (15:29):
I got that idea from a woman I interviewed
recently who uh is a medium likeyou, and she's from Poland, and
there's certain areas thatobviously experienced a lot of
trauma, abuse.
It's so thick.
You can feel it.
Danniel Cullumber (15:44):
Yeah, people have actually gotten sick from
how dense and the energy.
And yes, there's some peoplethat are naturally sensitive to
energy waves too, like EMF wavesthat come from electronics and
things like that.
It's our nervous system being aradio wave picking up this
information.
It's just how the frequency istuned to it and how you work
with it.
It's just like anything else.
(16:05):
And I was seeing this, and thatwas one of the my goals to work
with therapy and paranormaltogether with trauma work over
the years, was I wasconsistently seeing this gap of
healing because it was eitheryou get a diagnosis with let's
say anxiety or depression, andyou can go to the pharmaceutical
(16:26):
route, put a band-aid on it,and that but you're still left
with suicide ideations.
And the problem is if you admitthat you're having suicide
ideations, you get labeled withall this stuff and you don't
want help, or it's a weakness,the stigmas of our conditioning,
even the colonized definitionsof healing versus indigenous,
wasn't even in the conversationsyet.
(16:47):
So what was happening as mygifts got stronger, I was
actually able to talk to thoseof indigenous people, islanders
of Hawaii, Pacific Islanders, toNative Americans who are here,
all the way up to the I thinkit's the Alaskan natives there
too.
I don't want to bedisrespectful and mispronounce
their indigenous names, so I'llpause there because my dyslexia
(17:10):
will override me faster than Ican correct it.
Johnny Burke (17:13):
Quick question.
We're talking about trauma.
Danniel Cullumber (17:16):
Yeah.
Johnny Burke (17:17):
The mediumship and oddly enough, the paranormal.
Is there a relationship to it?
Danniel Cullumber (17:22):
With so many people c wanting to work on
their self-spirituality, we'realso seeing that people are not
held accountable and aren'tdoing things ethically.
The mediumship comes in wherewe're like going, I am gonna
keep my boundaries and this iswhat I'm gonna work with because
this is what I know and I amsafe with this.
But when you start goingoutside your scope of practice,
even as a clinician or doctor orphysical therapist to a reiki
(17:47):
healer, then you're gonna causeharm.
It can cause harm to you andthe people you're working with.
So the overlap is you havedoctors who may be agnostic,
they know when something's off.
It could be actually a lovedone or someone that's passed
over the hospital from a similarthing, is prompting them to
look at something.
And that's where the paranormalcrosses over is we're always
(18:08):
getting information we're notaware of.
When I'm aware that I'm gettinginformation, I call it spirit
because it's an umbrella termbecause I don't know where the
source is coming from.
Could be coming fromcollective, could be from a past
life I may have had.
To maybe I read something, Ijust forgot it.
I have no idea.
But if it's my own thoughts, Ihave more bias in it.
But if it's spirit, it comes inquick and out of the blue.
Johnny Burke (18:31):
You mentioned ethical concerns.
Danniel Cullumber (18:33):
Oh, yeah.
Johnny Burke (18:34):
With not only mediums but ghost hunters,
paranormal investigators.
It's my idea that a medium thatis assisting in a paranormal
investigation is gonna have abetter understanding of how we
interact with those that areeither from across the veil or
(18:56):
what we would call an earthboundghost, right?
Danniel Cullumber (18:59):
Yeah.
Johnny Burke (18:59):
What have you seen in the difference between an
earthbound spirit and one who ismaybe visiting, who's already
crossed over?
Danniel Cullumber (19:07):
With earthbound ghosts, it's more
they're in the lower plane, andthat could be in more of our
earth tone vibration where it'smore dense.
And they sometimes choose to behere.
Sometimes the situation oftheir passing may happen so
quickly they're not aware thatthey passed, or they also may
have their own belief systemsthat created them to decide to
(19:28):
stay here.
And it could also be otherentities when I say it can be a
higher, lower vibration that'scontrolling it.
So just like anybody else, wehave free choice once we cross
over.
We're still parts of us.
I heard this from anotherpsychic medium, and I love that
the term goes, we're all spiritswalking around with our meat
suits on.
This is our space suit.
(19:49):
I was like, yeah, that's apretty good way to put it.
Johnny Burke (19:52):
Can we assume that once someone dies that they can
go to the light and cross over?
It's not like anything isholding them back.
Danniel Cullumber (20:01):
And that's a good question because I've had
people who weren't sure if theysaw it, or they were confused
because I've actually cameacross spirits who had
Alzheimer's and they were stillconfused.
Like they're more worried abouttheir loved ones, so they
stayed behind to watch overthem.
Or maybe they felt so muchguilt, they figured this was the
(20:22):
best it's gonna be.
Or maybe they didn't have abelief system, they're like, I
don't know what to do next.
They're still having that formof amnesia.
But with the little bit they'vetold me, I've been putting
pieces together.
Johnny Burke (20:33):
These are spirits you're talking about.
Danniel Cullumber (20:35):
And then it's still earthbound spirits too.
Now, spirits that I've crossedover, those were the ones that
like to visit me in dreams, andI've known that I'm astral
traveling in my sleep becausethe colors will be brighter and
more in focus, and I'll rememberthe details more.
But then there's times wherethey'll superimpose into a
dream.
My father's done that, myuncle's done that, my aunt's
(20:55):
done that.
I've had a lot of deceased pastclients and residents that I
worked with over the years.
Visit me like that.
Johnny Burke (21:01):
In the dream.
Danniel Cullumber (21:02):
In the dreams.
Johnny Burke (21:03):
So you mentioned astral travel.
Is there an overlap betweenastral travel and the dream
world?
Is it the same thing or is itsomething else?
Danniel Cullumber (21:14):
This is just my lens, so there's no validity
to back it up.
So this I'm giving you from myperspective.
I think it's all the samebecause when we astral travel,
we can go to different worldsand different planes.
We can get into that state evenin meditation.
So we're just raising ourvibration and able to access
things and be aware of thingsand observe things than we could
(21:36):
differently.
Johnny Burke (21:37):
Okay.
Well, if it's your experience,then it's valid.
It's not something you read ina book that's your lens.
Danniel Cullumber (21:43):
Yeah, I remember when I was a kid, pre
kindergarten age, that I wouldliterally fly around and see
things through around Salt Lake.
I even remember swimming in theoceans, seeing things, and I
didn't know that I was actuallytraveling at that.
Time because my parents wouldbe driving somewhere and I would
tell them exactly where thingswere, where we were going, how
(22:07):
to get there.
And and I know kids can learnpatterns really fast, but this
is for I've never been there.
I'd show up and go, Oh, I'vebeen here, and I would go A, B,
and C.
And this had nothing to do withat the time that I were of
either that of a past life.
I just recall it from dreamingabout it.
This is just me being a kidgoing, la la la, this is normal.
Johnny Burke (22:27):
You developed into a medium, you did trauma work.
Are you still doing that now?
Danniel Cullumber (22:32):
Yes.
Johnny Burke (22:33):
Okay, so you're doing that.
Are you still involved inparanormal investigations?
Danniel Cullumber (22:37):
Yes.
In fact, I'm bridging the gapeven with Willow Medella
Wellness to do that.
My goal is in the next year tostart training potential
paranormal investigators orpeople who just want to have a
safe way to talk to their lovedones when they're not sure how
to access it with their owngifts and want to prove it with
scientific fact with equipmentto back it up.
(22:59):
I love to have evidence becauseevidence produces results and
awareness and education.
I want to do that because myhusband and I last September
went to Virginia City in Nevada,and we did a ghost hunting tour
all over the town, and even uhthe bed and breakfast we stayed
at, it was notoriously haunted.
(23:20):
And the history, we actuallyfound out that the indigenous
wanted their stories told, theminers wanted their story
straight, and not just thesurface level let's talk about
the rich people and who settledthis.
One of my paranormal giftsgoals, including my husband's as
the medicine man, we call himbecause he works with me, is
(23:42):
getting that story straight,decolonizing that narrative,
telling what the spirits want tobe told and want to be
remembered.
Johnny Burke (23:51):
Do you think that in the non-intuitive, no psychic
ability, nothing like that,they're able to contact their
loved ones that have passed on?
Danniel Cullumber (24:01):
Oh yeah.
Ask for a sign, but don't be adick about it.
Johnny Burke (24:05):
That was awesome.
That's great.
Danniel Cullumber (24:06):
Like my aunt I told you when she passed, she
would leave me things in threesbecause I would see this
pattern.
I'm like, oh, it's her.
Some people says butterflies,coins, feathers, birds.
Mm my brother loves to send mebutterflies.
I saw a monarch butterfly outthe bay window to the part where
(24:27):
he passed away.
And this poor butterfly wasjust floating there, just eating
just staying straight.
And I go, Yeah, I'll take careof the family.
It's okay.
And then once the butterfly wasreleased, the poor thing was
like, what just happened?
It was the funniest thing Iever seen.
During a moment of deep grief,I found joy and laughter in it.
And that's the other thing isif it connects to songs, oh my
(24:51):
gosh, these songs that come onthe radio, they can align that.
Johnny Burke (24:55):
Song that comes into your head though.
Danniel Cullumber (24:57):
Exactly.
So acknowledge it.
Don't think that you have tojust go to the cemetery to go
there to visit.
The reason you probably went tothe cemetery, because they
probably gave you an idea thatwas the connection.
A lot of times they're justright there beside you.
I have my father's ashes heredownstairs.
I have a picture of him in myoffice.
And I it's not like I go aroundgoing, Oh, my dad's here.
I know he's in multiple placesat once.
(25:18):
I know he's playing tricks onmy stepmother.
I also know that he's alsoplayed a trick on me when after
he died.
Literally, we walked into thehouse, I walked in the kitchen,
and then I hear my husband go,Honey, where's your son's
picture on the coffee table?
I go, What are you talkingabout?
He'd taken my son's picture offthe wall, put it on the coffee
table.
And I knew why he did that,because my son was unable to say
(25:40):
goodbye to him.
And they were both okay withthat.
But he was just making a pointbecause I'm aware.
And I actually said, Dad, Ilove ya.
Just because I can talk to youdoesn't mean this doesn't creep
me out.
Please don't do that again.
Johnny Burke (25:51):
With all your experience, what is the most
important thing that you'velearned about your mediumship,
the spirit world, astraltraveling, and that type of
thing?
Danniel Cullumber (25:59):
I think the most important thing is we are
still human, regardless ofwherever we are, we are who we
are.
So treat people with respecthere, treat them with respect
there.
And another thing is trauma isits own ghost, it's its own
abyss and sadness, and healing'spossible here and even on the
(26:20):
other side, wherever that is.
Johnny Burke (26:22):
Healing is something that I think many of
us can definitely use, either asindividuals or as a collective,
as in like here in the States.
I'm not gonna go any fartherthan that, but I think you know
what I'm talking about.
Thanks for joining us tonight,Danielle.
In the meantime, how can ourlisteners find you online?
Danniel Cullumber (26:39):
Through my website at willow medello of
wellness.com.
Or you can contact me throughmy WhatsApp number at
1-801-906-3802.
Johnny Burke (26:52):
You've been listening to Closer to Venus,
I'm Johnny Burke.
If you enjoyed tonight'sepisode, please consider
subscribing.
In the meantime, you can findmore info on closer to
Venus.com.
Thanks again for tuning in, andwe'll see you next time.
Welcome to Closer to Venus.
I'm Johnny Burke, and today'sguest is Danielle Worthen
Columber.
She is a paranormalinvestigator, psychic medium,
clinical social worker, andfounder of Willow Medella
Wellness.
In this episode, we'll discusshow she developed her mediumship
as well as how she employs hermediumship and paranormal
(00:23):
investigations.
Danielle, welcome to theprogram.
Danniel Cullumber (00:26):
Thank you for having me.
Johnny Burke (00:28):
So, speaking of mediumship, when did you first
notice it?
Danniel Cullumber (00:32):
I became aware of it when I was 19.
I actually had a dream thatactually played out after having
such a dream.
It honestly freaked me out.
It's like, what's going on?
How is that possible?
I had always enjoyed ghoststories and wanted to go ghost
hunting.
I was always had that love forthe macabre kind of thing.
(00:56):
And with my birth being soclose to Halloween, it just fit
together.
My mediumship actually startedcoming in when I started
noticing more of these dreamsthat I was having coming true.
And started noticing thingsthat I couldn't explain as a
child.
Because I saw things when I wasa child, but I chalked it up to
(01:19):
just an active imagination likeanybody else.
I started noticing that I wouldhave these thoughts, like
random while driving, you know,how we kind of zone out.
I wonder about this.
I literally would think aboutsomething like something
happening in the media.
And within a day, I would getinformation about it or about
(01:40):
that person.
And I started reading booksfrom Sylvie Brown, John Edwards
to start with, and it just builtfrom there.
And I started realizing that Iwas finding patterns in what
they were talking about that Iwas experiencing.
Johnny Burke (01:54):
When you read books by Sylvia Brown and
others, you noticed the samethings that they were
experiencing.
Danniel Cullumber (02:00):
Similar or people they had talked to.
So because I loved ghoststories as well, I would ring
Holtz, he was a famous originalparanormal investigator back in
the day, he'd have a secondmedium named Sid, and she would
go into trances, and they woulduse that actually in their
investigations, and he wouldrecord what she said when she
(02:22):
was in a trance with the spiritof wherever the haunting was.
And I was like, this is socool.
I want to do that.
Be careful what you wish for.
You might get it.
Johnny Burke (02:32):
Now you mentioned something about dreams a moment
ago.
That's where you got the firstinclination that you had some
skills.
Did you make the connectionbetween the dream world and the
spirit world?
Or was that maybe a little bitlater in your development?
Danniel Cullumber (02:47):
It was later in my development because in
1998, my daughter was born inOctober, and I have an aunt who
struggled with mental illnessthat we weren't aware of, and
she had a lot of trauma history.
But she was my favorite aunt.
She was the closest in age tome because I was the oldest
(03:08):
grandchild.
I had wanted her to meet mydaughter.
Last time I saw my aunt was onHalloween, ironically.
And I had just given birththree weeks before, so I wasn't
bringing my daughter at such ayoung age at that time to a
party.
Two days after Christmas, myaunt passed away from suicide.
It shattered me.
(03:29):
And I had so many questions.
I'm like, why?
We had our funeral on NewYear's Eve, and I went to bed,
and the next morning in thepre-dawn hours, I was going into
one of my dreams, and there allof a sudden there's my aunt.
And I just thought I was justdreamy because I missed her, but
(03:49):
we ended up having aconversation, and I was like, oh
my gosh, this if this is real,I was still questioning if it
was real.
I was like, if this is real,I'm gonna ask the hard question.
I actually got to ask her why.
Johnny Burke (04:01):
Okay, so that experience it seems like you
were aware you were dreaming.
Is that true?
Danniel Cullumber (04:08):
In a matter of speaking, because you know
how sometimes when we wake upand we go back to sleep and
we're in that in-between statewhere we're both conscious of
it, and when you start kind ofgoing into dream, but you still
had control of it, I was in thatstate.
Johnny Burke (04:21):
That's a lucid dream though, right?
Danniel Cullumber (04:23):
Yeah, it's a very lucid dream.
And I've been having luciddreams since I was a child, so
this was not unusual.
But this was the first time Ihad a dead relative that I'm
aware of that I had aconversation with, and she
actually told me why.
And her answer actuallysurprised me.
Her answer was Danielle, Idon't know why then and I don't
(04:44):
know why now.
And I was like, okay.
And after that, my auntactually became more active in
communicating paranormally to meand kind of giving me clues
along the way, so she neverstopped talking to me.
Johnny Burke (04:59):
This is one of the um questions that is really
hard for us to talk about.
But one of the, I believe,possible misconceptions about
religious teachings is that whensomeone commits suicide, they
go to hell, they're damned.
And from what I've noticed fromconversations like this, is
(05:19):
that it's not necessarily true.
Do you get the feeling thatyour aunt is in a good place
now?
Danniel Cullumber (05:25):
Oh, yeah.
I actually watched her evolvepositively, just like anybody
else.
So when you're in a dark space,and I'm not talking about like
in a purgatory necessarilyanything.
When we're in mental andemotionally in a dark place,
we're gonna lose thatvibrationally anyways.
And as she helped me, it helpedher.
(05:48):
And she grew energetically andemotionally and cognitively.
Johnny Burke (05:53):
And this is across the veil, obviously.
This is after the fact.
Danniel Cullumber (05:56):
And she's not the only p family member that
has passed away from suicidethat I've had.
Her younger brother passed awaya few years later.
Same situation.
My family struggles withbipolar and personality
disorders, and I even talked tomy uncle, and he's notorious for
playing tricks on me, so I havehim moving things and teasing
(06:19):
me.
Unfortunately, my youngerbrother also passed away from
suicide.
Actually, the anniversary isthis month, June of 2019, he
passed away.
He struggled mental illness.
That is not who he was, and itwas just something that happens
as part of the symptomologiesthat happen with it.
But it did not help meemotionally and spiritually
(06:41):
because I was a trauma therapistand I I couldn't prevent
helping my own family members.
It's it's a situational thing.
Johnny Burke (06:50):
It's a case by case thing, I would imagine.
Have you any experience withpast lives where in that life
between lives space where a lotof the soul agreements and soul
families agree on what rolethey're gonna play?
Danniel Cullumber (07:05):
You just gave me chills with that question.
Because what actually happenedin 2019, I had four family
members die in a matter of ninemonths.
Of course, my brother was amongthem.
And what I had discovered waswith each one passing, they were
completing a soul contract, andthey were supposed to support
me.
And my gifts got so strong andso huge that I was like, okay,
(07:31):
the reading of the books,watching second kids isn't gonna
cut it anymore.
It literally was like, I needsome support because I was a
closeted medium.
I was like, there has to bemore.
I gotta work on me spiritually.
So I ended up being guided, Iwould say, to a holistic group.
And I met a whole bunch ofother people like me, but with
(07:54):
different gifts, differentabilities.
And I had always wanted to dosocial work and therapy in the
paranormal world because Ialready was a ghost hunter that
I was going to support people inthat way.
What I didn't know was theywere also setting me up to meet
my second husband.
Johnny Burke (08:10):
Your family had a part in this.
Danniel Cullumber (08:12):
Yes.
So the soul contract was we hadto fulfill this part so you
could do this part.
But there was an interestingcaveat with soul contracts I
found out.
My father, who passed away ayear ago last September, he too
had a soul contract with me.
Had no idea until he passedaway.
He had actually came to visitme the day before he started to
(08:35):
transition.
And he was telling me he wastired, and I didn't realize that
he actually decided to stayhere on this side for three
years just to make sure I wasokay.
He also was able to help me seethings that I would have missed
out if he'd passed before then.
Johnny Burke (08:55):
Okay, so let's talk about the sole contract.
I don't have any doubt becauseI've heard this so many times
that this happens, but how didyou discover specifically, was
it when you were in a certaintype of space where your family
members told you what theagreement was, or was it
telepathic?
Was it a download?
(09:15):
How did that happen?
Danniel Cullumber (09:16):
It actually came in different formats.
In fact, it had been also otherpeople who had gifts.
Because my my family memberscan talk to me, but sometimes
it's just kind of nice to haveanother voice to talk to.
So another person that hadmediumship would talk to me.
Once they mentioned something,I'd get like a download of the
awareness in this holistic groupbecause I had access to so many
(09:40):
people that had different giftsand their healing process.
I also got to tap into theirawarenesses because one of my
gifts is I can kind of tune intovibrations of what people are
going through.
So it's one of my gifts also asa therapist.
I can actually look at somebodybefore I actually do the actual
diagnostic to prove whatthey're going through.
(10:02):
I may not know their story, Imay not know their background,
but my awareness of certainmental health illnesses or even
physical elements, I can pick upin my mediumship and my psychic
abilities.
Johnny Burke (10:17):
You know what that reminds me of?
People like you that have thatskill that work in hospice, and
they can basically see thewelcoming party literally.
Most likely in their mind'seye.
Sometimes they get all theClaire's and they can see it
too, and they can see thewelcoming party there to greet
the person as they pass.
Danniel Cullumber (10:38):
I've actually been on that receiving end when
they were transitioning, and Iactually was picking up on the
welcoming party.
Johnny Burke (10:46):
Oh, so you've seen it.
Danniel Cullumber (10:48):
Yeah, I think the first time I saw it was my
grandfather, my mom's father.
This is before my uncle passedaway from his suicide.
He came to visit, and I saw thehalf-form of a woman.
I described her skirt andeverything, and I explained, I
told my grandmother, and shegoes, Oh, I think that's my
mother-in-law.
And I never met her becauseshe'd passed away before he did,
(11:08):
but it would make sense why shewas there for her son.
In fact, it was the first timeI actually had a conversation
about my great-grandmother, whowas from Germany, and how she
was and who she was.
And I was like, I got to knowfamily members that had passed
over that I never had arelationship with on this side.
Johnny Burke (11:24):
And you never met them.
Danniel Cullumber (11:25):
Right.
I watched my formerfather-in-law's own father
transition.
I was literally was watchingthe beeps, and I watched his
wife stand up and go, she goes,I can't do this.
And she walked out.
I looked up at the thing, I sawthe fly line, and I literally
watched with my own eyes, notwith my gifts, I actually
watched the silhouette of whiteform of legs following his wife
(11:47):
out.
I went, That is cool.
I got so excited, just watcheda man that I had a great
relationship with justtransition.
His grandson, who was myhusband at the time, go, This is
it.
He was confused.
And I hear him all excited, andhe's having an existential
crisis at that very moment.
I was like, talk about a dayand night experience.
Johnny Burke (12:08):
That's pretty incredible, but it wasn't scary
though.
No.
No.
So let's talk about how you gotinvolved in paranormal
investigations.
How did that work?
Danniel Cullumber (12:19):
So I as I said, I had always loved ghost
hunting.
I literally had been studyingthis since I was in junior high.
In fact, while I was reading,that's how I actually got my
first paranormal attack fromsomething.
And it scared me pretty badly,I will be honest.
But I had been reading on howto do it, w the what not to do.
(12:41):
As I said, Holtz was like oldschool.
What they used to do during thespiritual movement, I was just
learning everything andanything.
And then one day, shortly aftermy son was born in 2006, so it
was almost 2007 when thishappened, I saw an ad in the
paper where they were invitingpotential paranormal
(13:03):
investigators to join a team.
And I'm glad I reached outbecause the woman I talked to
actually was trying to promoteit, but then she was actually
leaving that group because theyweren't being ethical.
So she had founded theparanormal group, Rocky Mountain
Utah Paranormal.
I joined as the historianbecause I had done so much
(13:25):
reading, especially localfolklore and history, that I had
a lot of information at myfingertips because I was such a
bergworm.
And the next thing I know,because we'd worked so well, she
made me the co-founder.
So I became the co-founder ofRocky Mountain Utah Paranormal
back in 2007.
And we started traveling,investigating, and we were
(13:48):
actually in Utah the firstnonprofit licensed with the
Department of Commerce in Utah.
So we were trying to doeverything ethical and clean
because so many of the shows outthere were actually causing
harm because it was all aboutthat propaganda.
You do this to get a reaction.
I was also learning that peoplewere having trauma responses
(14:10):
during during investigations andafter investigations because
these people would come in,cause a problem by either
disrupting the ecosystem in thehome, taunting the spirits.
Johnny Burke (14:22):
Not a good idea.
Danniel Cullumber (14:23):
Yeah.
Or even dismissing and notpathologizing the experiences
and accusing them of havingmental illness of those people
that were having theseexperiences.
I was a guest panel speaker onat FearCon here in Utah
pre-COVID, and I was talkingabout energy that's even left in
the rafters and stuff frompeople building buildings, not
just the land and everything.
(14:44):
But I was talking about thetrauma that people were
experiencing.
They didn't have coping skills.
And that was one of the issuesthat I was seeing was when you
aren't able to regulate, how areyou supposed to help yourself,
let alone something paranormalwhen you don't feel like you
have control?
Johnny Burke (15:01):
It sounds like when there is trauma in a space,
that energy can be left behind.
Danniel Cullumber (15:07):
Yeah.
We all have intuition becausewe call it our sixth sense, like
your gut instinct or anything.
It's just refining it.
And some people just know whena good deal's happening, they
don't question it.
They don't let the brainoverride the instinct or their
awareness.
So we can actually walk into aroom and know there's been a
fight without ever asking aquestion because it's like the
energy is charged in theenvironment.
Johnny Burke (15:29):
I got that idea from a woman I interviewed
recently who uh is a medium likeyou, and she's from Poland, and
there's certain areas thatobviously experienced a lot of
trauma, abuse.
It's so thick.
You can feel it.
Danniel Cullumber (15:44):
Yeah, people have actually gotten sick from
how dense and the energy.
And yes, there's some peoplethat are naturally sensitive to
energy waves too, like EMF wavesthat come from electronics and
things like that.
It's our nervous system being aradio wave picking up this
information.
It's just how the frequency istuned to it and how you work
with it.
It's just like anything else.
(16:05):
And I was seeing this, and thatwas one of the my goals to work
with therapy and paranormaltogether with trauma work over
the years, was I wasconsistently seeing this gap of
healing because it was eitheryou get a diagnosis with let's
say anxiety or depression, andyou can go to the pharmaceutical
(16:26):
route, put a band-aid on it,and that but you're still left
with suicide ideations.
And the problem is if you admitthat you're having suicide
ideations, you get labeled withall this stuff and you don't
want help, or it's a weakness,the stigmas of our conditioning,
even the colonized definitionsof healing versus indigenous,
wasn't even in the conversationsyet.
(16:47):
So what was happening as mygifts got stronger, I was
actually able to talk to thoseof indigenous people, islanders
of Hawaii, Pacific Islanders, toNative Americans who are here,
all the way up to the I thinkit's the Alaskan natives there
too.
I don't want to bedisrespectful and mispronounce
their indigenous names, so I'llpause there because my dyslexia
(17:10):
will override me faster than Ican correct it.
Johnny Burke (17:13):
Quick question.
We're talking about trauma.
Danniel Cullumber (17:16):
Yeah.
Johnny Burke (17:17):
The mediumship and oddly enough, the paranormal.
Is there a relationship to it?
Danniel Cullumber (17:22):
With so many people c wanting to work on
their self-spirituality, we'realso seeing that people are not
held accountable and aren'tdoing things ethically.
The mediumship comes in wherewe're like going, I am gonna
keep my boundaries and this iswhat I'm gonna work with because
this is what I know and I amsafe with this.
But when you start goingoutside your scope of practice,
even as a clinician or doctor orphysical therapist to a reiki
(17:47):
healer, then you're gonna causeharm.
It can cause harm to you andthe people you're working with.
So the overlap is you havedoctors who may be agnostic,
they know when something's off.
It could be actually a lovedone or someone that's passed
over the hospital from a similarthing, is prompting them to
look at something.
And that's where the paranormalcrosses over is we're always
(18:08):
getting information we're notaware of.
When I'm aware that I'm gettinginformation, I call it spirit
because it's an umbrella termbecause I don't know where the
source is coming from.
Could be coming fromcollective, could be from a past
life I may have had.
To maybe I read something, Ijust forgot it.
I have no idea.
But if it's my own thoughts, Ihave more bias in it.
But if it's spirit, it comes inquick and out of the blue.
Johnny Burke (18:31):
You mentioned ethical concerns.
Danniel Cullumber (18:33):
Oh, yeah.
Johnny Burke (18:34):
With not only mediums but ghost hunters,
paranormal investigators.
It's my idea that a medium thatis assisting in a paranormal
investigation is gonna have abetter understanding of how we
interact with those that areeither from across the veil or
(18:56):
what we would call an earthboundghost, right?
Danniel Cullumber (18:59):
Yeah.
Johnny Burke (18:59):
What have you seen in the difference between an
earthbound spirit and one who ismaybe visiting, who's already
crossed over?
Danniel Cullumber (19:07):
With earthbound ghosts, it's more
they're in the lower plane, andthat could be in more of our
earth tone vibration where it'smore dense.
And they sometimes choose to behere.
Sometimes the situation oftheir passing may happen so
quickly they're not aware thatthey passed, or they also may
have their own belief systemsthat created them to decide to
(19:28):
stay here.
And it could also be otherentities when I say it can be a
higher, lower vibration that'scontrolling it.
So just like anybody else, wehave free choice once we cross
over.
We're still parts of us.
I heard this from anotherpsychic medium, and I love that
the term goes, we're all spiritswalking around with our meat
suits on.
This is our space suit.
(19:49):
I was like, yeah, that's apretty good way to put it.
Johnny Burke (19:52):
Can we assume that once someone dies that they can
go to the light and cross over?
It's not like anything isholding them back.
Danniel Cullumber (20:01):
And that's a good question because I've had
people who weren't sure if theysaw it, or they were confused
because I've actually cameacross spirits who had
Alzheimer's and they were stillconfused.
Like they're more worried abouttheir loved ones, so they
stayed behind to watch overthem.
Or maybe they felt so muchguilt, they figured this was the
(20:22):
best it's gonna be.
Or maybe they didn't have abelief system, they're like, I
don't know what to do next.
They're still having that formof amnesia.
But with the little bit they'vetold me, I've been putting
pieces together.
Johnny Burke (20:33):
These are spirits you're talking about.
Danniel Cullumber (20:35):
And then it's still earthbound spirits too.
Now, spirits that I've crossedover, those were the ones that
like to visit me in dreams, andI've known that I'm astral
traveling in my sleep becausethe colors will be brighter and
more in focus, and I'll rememberthe details more.
But then there's times wherethey'll superimpose into a
dream.
My father's done that, myuncle's done that, my aunt's
(20:55):
done that.
I've had a lot of deceased pastclients and residents that I
worked with over the years.
Visit me like that.
Johnny Burke (21:01):
In the dream.
Danniel Cullumber (21:02):
In the dreams.
Johnny Burke (21:03):
So you mentioned astral travel.
Is there an overlap betweenastral travel and the dream
world?
Is it the same thing or is itsomething else?
Danniel Cullumber (21:14):
This is just my lens, so there's no validity
to back it up.
So this I'm giving you from myperspective.
I think it's all the samebecause when we astral travel,
we can go to different worldsand different planes.
We can get into that state evenin meditation.
So we're just raising ourvibration and able to access
things and be aware of thingsand observe things than we could
(21:36):
differently.
Johnny Burke (21:37):
Okay.
Well, if it's your experience,then it's valid.
It's not something you read ina book that's your lens.
Danniel Cullumber (21:43):
Yeah, I remember when I was a kid, pre
kindergarten age, that I wouldliterally fly around and see
things through around Salt Lake.
I even remember swimming in theoceans, seeing things, and I
didn't know that I was actuallytraveling at that.
Time because my parents wouldbe driving somewhere and I would
tell them exactly where thingswere, where we were going, how
(22:07):
to get there.
And and I know kids can learnpatterns really fast, but this
is for I've never been there.
I'd show up and go, Oh, I'vebeen here, and I would go A, B,
and C.
And this had nothing to do withat the time that I were of
either that of a past life.
I just recall it from dreamingabout it.
This is just me being a kidgoing, la la la, this is normal.
Johnny Burke (22:27):
You developed into a medium, you did trauma work.
Are you still doing that now?
Danniel Cullumber (22:32):
Yes.
Johnny Burke (22:33):
Okay, so you're doing that.
Are you still involved inparanormal investigations?
Danniel Cullumber (22:37):
Yes.
In fact, I'm bridging the gapeven with Willow Medella
Wellness to do that.
My goal is in the next year tostart training potential
paranormal investigators orpeople who just want to have a
safe way to talk to their lovedones when they're not sure how
to access it with their owngifts and want to prove it with
scientific fact with equipmentto back it up.
(22:59):
I love to have evidence becauseevidence produces results and
awareness and education.
I want to do that because myhusband and I last September
went to Virginia City in Nevada,and we did a ghost hunting tour
all over the town, and even uhthe bed and breakfast we stayed
at, it was notoriously haunted.
(23:20):
And the history, we actuallyfound out that the indigenous
wanted their stories told, theminers wanted their story
straight, and not just thesurface level let's talk about
the rich people and who settledthis.
One of my paranormal giftsgoals, including my husband's as
the medicine man, we call himbecause he works with me, is
(23:42):
getting that story straight,decolonizing that narrative,
telling what the spirits want tobe told and want to be
remembered.
Johnny Burke (23:51):
Do you think that in the non-intuitive, no psychic
ability, nothing like that,they're able to contact their
loved ones that have passed on?
Danniel Cullumber (24:01):
Oh yeah.
Ask for a sign, but don't be adick about it.
Johnny Burke (24:05):
That was awesome.
That's great.
Danniel Cullumber (24:06):
Like my aunt I told you when she passed, she
would leave me things in threesbecause I would see this
pattern.
I'm like, oh, it's her.
Some people says butterflies,coins, feathers, birds.
Mm my brother loves to send mebutterflies.
I saw a monarch butterfly outthe bay window to the part where
(24:27):
he passed away.
And this poor butterfly wasjust floating there, just eating
just staying straight.
And I go, Yeah, I'll take careof the family.
It's okay.
And then once the butterfly wasreleased, the poor thing was
like, what just happened?
It was the funniest thing Iever seen.
During a moment of deep grief,I found joy and laughter in it.
And that's the other thing isif it connects to songs, oh my
(24:51):
gosh, these songs that come onthe radio, they can align that.
Johnny Burke (24:55):
Song that comes into your head though.
Danniel Cullumber (24:57):
Exactly.
So acknowledge it.
Don't think that you have tojust go to the cemetery to go
there to visit.
The reason you probably went tothe cemetery, because they
probably gave you an idea thatwas the connection.
A lot of times they're justright there beside you.
I have my father's ashes heredownstairs.
I have a picture of him in myoffice.
And I it's not like I go aroundgoing, Oh, my dad's here.
I know he's in multiple placesat once.
(25:18):
I know he's playing tricks onmy stepmother.
I also know that he's alsoplayed a trick on me when after
he died.
Literally, we walked into thehouse, I walked in the kitchen,
and then I hear my husband go,Honey, where's your son's
picture on the coffee table?
I go, What are you talkingabout?
He'd taken my son's picture offthe wall, put it on the coffee
table.
And I knew why he did that,because my son was unable to say
(25:40):
goodbye to him.
And they were both okay withthat.
But he was just making a pointbecause I'm aware.
And I actually said, Dad, Ilove ya.
Just because I can talk to youdoesn't mean this doesn't creep
me out.
Please don't do that again.
Johnny Burke (25:51):
With all your experience, what is the most
important thing that you'velearned about your mediumship,
the spirit world, astraltraveling, and that type of
thing?
Danniel Cullumber (25:59):
I think the most important thing is we are
still human, regardless ofwherever we are, we are who we
are.
So treat people with respecthere, treat them with respect
there.
And another thing is trauma isits own ghost, it's its own
abyss and sadness, and healing'spossible here and even on the
(26:20):
other side, wherever that is.
Johnny Burke (26:22):
Healing is something that I think many of
us can definitely use, either asindividuals or as a collective,
as in like here in the States.
I'm not gonna go any fartherthan that, but I think you know
what I'm talking about.
Thanks for joining us tonight,Danielle.
In the meantime, how can ourlisteners find you online?
Danniel Cullumber (26:39):
Through my website at willow medello of
wellness.com.
Or you can contact me throughmy WhatsApp number at
1-801-906-3802.
Johnny Burke (26:52):
You've been listening to Closer to Venus,
I'm Johnny Burke.
If you enjoyed tonight'sepisode, please consider
subscribing.
In the meantime, you can findmore info on closer to
Venus.com.
Thanks again for tuning in, andwe'll see you next time.
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