June 19, 2025 • 51 mins
Life After Coming Out at 60: Matt Starts Over (Part 2) – At 60, Matt’s life took a dramatic turn when he was outed, abruptly ending a 35-year marriage. In Part 2 of his story, Matt opens up about starting over as an openly gay man in Dallas – from finding love and community to rebuilding family relationships. This heartfelt conversation explores the challenges of dating later in life, learning self-acceptance, and the power of an affirming LGBTQ community.
In this episode, you’ll hear about:
- Embracing your true identity after decades of secrecy
- Building a support network and community from scratch in a new city
- Navigating first dates, new friendships, and unexpected feelings of guilt at 60
- How chosen family and therapy helped Matt heal and find joy again
Why it matters: Not everyone gets to choose how – or when – they come out. Matt’s journey shows that it’s never too late to live authentically and find the community that will lift you up.
If you enjoy this episode, follow @CoffeewithGays for more true stories every Thursday. And if you missed Part 1 of Matt’s story, be sure to check out the previous episode! Feel free to share this story with a friend or leave us a rating/review to let us know what you think.
⏱️ Chapters
00:00 — Introduction & New Beginnings
02:50 — Life After Coming Out
05:31 — Finding an LGBTQ Community from Scratch
07:53 — Navigating Happiness and Guilt
10:36 — The Freedom of Being Out
13:17 — Relationships, Dating & Acceptance
16:24 — Ongoing Self-Discovery
19:05 — Observations on Community & Culture
28:26 — Starting Over Later in Life
30:57 — Exploring Sexuality & New Connections
36:18 — Building Friendships & Support Systems
39:28 — Belonging in a Traditionally Conservative Environment
45:04 — Sharing Stories & Personal Growth
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey y'all, it's Blaine.
Welcome to Coffee with Gaze.
And this is part two of Matt'sstory.
We actually recorded thisepisode over a year ago, right
before Pride of 2024.
And, for a multitude of reasons, we couldn't release it then
Timing, life, emotions, you nameit.
We had it, but now we'refinally ready, and we're so
proud to bring this episode toyou.
If you missed last week'sepisode're so proud to bring
(00:27):
this episode to you.
If you missed last week'sepisode, I encourage you to go
back and watch part one ofMatt's story.
He was outed by one of the mostdevastating ways possible A man
stole his phone, extorted hisfamily, and, after that, 35
years of marriage came crumblingdown.
This episode, though, is whatcame after.
It's not about the coming out.
It's about the rebuilding, thereclaiming and the belonging,
(00:48):
and this story really even hitme harder now, because I just
came back from a trip from Spain, where I met a man who is from
the so-called new Middle East.
You know, he's wealthy,professional, privileged, in his
late 30s, and he's moving toEurope.
And you say why?
Well, because his home countrypeople were asking why he's
moving to Europe.
And you say why?
Well, because in his homecountry, people were asking why
he's not married in his late 30s.
(01:08):
You know, there the questionisn't just social pressure, it's
a threat.
You can lose your job, yoursafety, your future, even when
you're privileged.
And that's still the reality inthe majority of the world.
Meanwhile, in the US, we forgethow recent our progress really
is.
Matt didn't grow up in 2025.
He grew up in a world wherecoming out could cost you
(01:30):
everything.
Some of y'all haven't even seenPhiladelphia where Tom Hanks
plays a gay lawyer you know,dying of AIDS, Hired by his firm
, rejected by his friends andco-workers and left to die alone
.
That was only in 1993.
It is not ancient history.
So, no, we don't get to judgepeople who didn't come out
sooner and we sure as hell don'tget to take our freedoms now
(01:53):
for granted.
There's a moment in this episodeI'll never forget.
Matt told me he used to go togay bars and he'd order his gay
drink a Bacardi and Coke and hewould watch people laughing and
being themselves and talking andrealized that this was a
community of people and he waskind of jealous and he wanted to
be a part of that.
And then we were standing atone of our gay bars here in
(02:13):
Dallas Roundup.
And he looked over to me andsaid, wow, I'm finally a part of
this community and I'm so happyto be here Such a pivotal
moment.
I was so happy to be there forthat, for him.
And that's what this story isall about Finding your people,
living your truth, no matter howlong it takes.
So, wherever you are, whoeveryou are, you get one life to
(02:35):
live it.
I hope Matt's story hits youthe same way it hit us.
So follow Coffee with Gaze formore stories that stay with you
and happy pride.
So enjoy part two of matt'sstory welcome to coffee with jay
welcome to coffee with gays.
(02:57):
I'm blade, I'm ryan, I'm adamand we are here with our special
guest, matt yay, yay, welcomeMatt, welcome back.
It is part two of your segment,because we wanted to split this
into two segments, and this isabout your new beginning and
embracing the community afterdecades of secrecy, really.
(03:19):
So we're really happy thatyou're here and, wow, that last
I just outed my age, sorry.
Sorry, but you're outing sogood, but you look so good.
Come on, matt, you look amazing.
We really super appreciate thestory and that was so heavy.
And thank you for coming backfor this new segment, because I
think one of the interestingthings to us was, when we were
(03:41):
talking about this is, yes,there was a lot of heaviness and
a lot of things that you had todeal with, but then there's
also been a lot of revelationsand, I think, a lot of happiness
and joy that people canactually look forward to when
coming out and making a decisionlike this.
So we kind of wanted to, youknow, talk about that too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think it's really really important to talk about,
like the life after.
So after you were ripped out ofthe closet and after everything
was thrown out on the table andliterally butcher shops and
thrown back into your life, youknow where do you stand now.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I mean, it's six weeks in a treatment, but it's.
It's still very new, so it's abig journey ahead of me, but I
can.
I can tell you what it's beensince I've Acknowledged my
gayness and to recap foreverybody, that was september
1st of last year.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
We're now in may, so it's only been like what I got
out of seven months treatmentmid-october, and it wasn't until
somewhere around December,january, where I said yeah, okay
.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And I ask what were the holidays like for you this
time, ah?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
you know what?
I don't even remember them.
Well, like honestly.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Did you spend them with your kids?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I don't remember.
I know one of them or maybeboth of them.
They went back to new jersey tobe with my wife.
So I remember thanksgiving Iwas feeling a little lonely,
honestly I don't like.
And christmas, yeah, I think wehad people around.
Um, I was in phoenix and christChristmas I was with my at
(05:26):
least one of my kids here inPhoenix.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Okay, so do you currently live in Dallas right
now?
Yes, okay, when did you move?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Early March.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, and what made you decide to do that?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Again, it wasn't my decision.
And what made you decide to dothat?
Again, it wasn't my decision.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Um, my previous boss, after he was so gracious and so
generous with me being awayknew that I was now single and
he felt it was important for meto be in Dallas in the office
(06:10):
had that not happened, likewhere do you think you'd live or
where do you choose?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
So I actually, when I got out of treatment, my wife
had.
While I was in treatment mywife had said by the way, your
stuff is with my daughter.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So she packed your stuff and moved it out.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
She packed my stuff, moved it out, daughter.
So she packed your stuff andmoved it out.
She packed my stuff, moved itout when I got out of treatment.
I have a place in Phoenix, butI rent that out for income.
So I got an apartment.
I signed a lease in Phoenix,Maybe like January 1st.
I was there two months.
My boss asked me to move, sothe company had to buy out my
lease.
I was a couple miles up theroad from my two daughters and
(06:47):
my grandson, which was justideal, but again in hindsight I
think they needed their spaceand I needed my space.
So I didn't want to move toDallas, but I think it was best
thing for everyone.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
What's your thought so far, by the way, of the
Dallas gay community, because Ithink it's one of the best gay
communities in our country.
That's my thought.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So I don't have a lifelong history of knowing gay
communities, but I did make aneffort in Phoenix and I started
to make an effort.
I wasn't there very long but Ilooked for stuff.
I found one gay hiking club andI did that once.
It was good.
That's a whole story there also.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Another fun story in the woods.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
No no.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Very clean.
But so I didn't really feel acommunity there, and maybe it's
because I was spending my timewith my family and I was still
going to 12 step treatmentswhere you know I can't do this,
this or that, like drink or vape, or like I was still in the I'm
a sex addict mode.
(07:55):
So the Dallas gay community hasjust been phenomenal.
I really feel like a part of acommunity here.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, I want, I want to know, just in your story I'm
hearing a lot of choices orthings happening that weren't
your choice, from being rippedout to choosing to even be in
Dallas what are you intending ondoing now that Matt is going to
decide?
I'm going to do this for me now.
(08:23):
Is there any of that, Ryan?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
holy shit, you sound like my therapist my god could
like be your next classes.
You go to add it to my sevenreal job because I mean that
brought me back to therapy wherethey were like, um, my wants
and needs matter, and my wantsand needs never mattered before,
except for this entitlementthing on the side.
(08:48):
Everything else was always forother people.
So, yeah, that's a really goodquestion and I'm still learning
that Absolutely.
I'm saying to my kids like youknow what I need to do this for
me.
Now it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right and you're exploring that for yourself.
But I think on our last episodewe talked about mourning the
end of that life that you hadbefore, and is there a sense
everyone's kind of going throughsome of that pain?
Do you feel, while you'remaking those decisions decisions
(09:25):
looking for your own happinessdo you feel still a sense of um
responsibility or or any of thatpain, or how is everyone
processing?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
and it's, it's funny.
I mean, look, I and there'sgonna be waves coming, um, and I
feel like I'm right now gettinginto a wave of okay, look I,
look, I've announced that I'mgay.
I've told everybody I can tellwhether they want to hear it or
not that I'm gay and it feelsphenomenal to say that.
(09:55):
And gee, I'm meeting greatpeople, you know, dating and
stuff in Dallas and doing things, and I'm now kind of settling,
I guess, into a little bit ofreality and the sadness is kind
of seeping back in.
I've had dreams the pastseveral nights about my wife
that I hadn't had before.
So I'm starting to miss my oldlife now a little bit.
(10:19):
So there's going to be somephases to go through here.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
It's going to be ups and downs, definitely going to
be ups and downs.
I mean it's one of those thingswhere it's your past life was
all you knew.
So it's hard to just sit thereand turn around and be like you
know, see, with your old life,you know here's the new life
You're going to have.
That it's part of you know,it's just nature.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Do you ever feel guilty when you?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
feel happy, enjoying your new life as a part of this
new community.
So I have shared a few too manyhappy things, with one of my
daughters in particular.
You know I share things that Ithink people can handle, and
even this one daughter was likeyou know what, dad, that's great
, but a little TMI and we're allkind of still hurting, right.
(11:09):
So you know they don't want tohear about my dating or I'm just
being less.
It was like a big wake up call.
Like, oh my God, like theirheads are still spinning Right,
the family is completelydifferent, dynamics are
different.
My wife and I aren't eventalking at all and the kids are
(11:31):
in the middle of that and here Iam oh, this is so fun, this is
this and this is that.
And I'm playing in the gaykickball league and I've got a
special friend and they're likeyeah, they're like we're really
glad you're happy and that wedon't have to worry about you,
but like, ease up Right, ease upon the happiness, because we're
still hurting here.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, which I mean rightfully so.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I was like yeah, like , duh, Like, what have I been
doing?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Everybody has their own journey through this,
especially your immediate family, so I can understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
But I also think it's okay for you, at least
personally, to celebrate and behappy in your new life and the
fact that you're now honest andliving a true life.
I don't think, you know, youhave to constantly prostrate
yourself for the rest of yourlife.
You know, or feel like thisterrible guilt.
Um, I mean, I'm sure there'salways a bit of that right, but
(12:25):
like you should enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, I went through a lot of therapy about guilt
versus shame and it took a lotof work to get rid of the shame
and it's okay to haveappropriate guilt.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Does it feel natural now, and the way that I say that
is here's how I can say it.
When I first came out, itdidn't just I could, like the
stress came off of me and I'msure you felt that that boulder
come off of you, cause we've allbeen there, like I don't worry
about who knows where what I'mlooking like or you know who's
(12:59):
going to say something to meanymore.
I'm just like here it is, thisis me and this is it.
Do you feel that way, or do youstill feel like that?
That kind of like I don't wanteverybody knowing yet no, it's
um.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I've told people who could care less whether I'm gay
or straight or anything else,like if I get one little opening
to tell them my story, I tellthem and then they're like good
for you, buddy.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm just here to deliver your mail.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, pretty much like that.
So I've said to myself like ifI could have written the rosiest
imagination of what it would belike when I was in the closet,
of how it would feel and what itwould be like, I couldn't have
come close to it.
You know what I mean.
(13:50):
So it was always an imaginationof terror when I was in it.
But even if I tried to paintthe best picture on how great it
would be and this is the kindof stuff I want people who are
in the closet to understand it'sjust like unbelievable I can't
(14:11):
even put it into words at howcomfortable it feels to just not
have anything to hide.
It's just.
And the second part of that isthe family, the friends, the
business associates, thecustomers, my colleagues.
I've cried when I've toldpeople.
(14:32):
I still when I tell I told acustomer a couple days ago who
you know we're close but and shewasn't asking, she wasn't being
like nosy.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
How's the order?
I'm gay.
What, what.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Who?
Yeah, something I was like.
Hey, you know, did you hearabout the break I took last fall
when I ducked out she?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
goes yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I heard something about that, but you know she
wasn't digging or prying Rightand I said well, let me tell you
what happened.
And I said, well, let me tellyou what happened and told her
the whole story.
And my sales rep who I've nevertold directly, I've told others
but not like I get everybodytogether and tell them, you know
, make an announcement out of it.
As a matter of fact, when I waswaiting for you to let me in
here, she texted me and said hey, I just spoke to Dr So-and-so
(15:21):
and like that's amazing that youare so vulnerable and she was
so appreciative of you sharingthat with her and be you Right.
So that kind of reaction everytime I get it I get choked up.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like just unbelievable.
Were you surprised?
Like would you say, themajority of people were a lot
more accepting than youanticipated?
Because I know when I came out,that's my that, that was my
reaction.
I thought people that wouldhate me didn't?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
no one gives a fuck I think that's true.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Nobody gives a fuck.
We paint this big image in ourhead that everyone cares, but
really it's not them.
Everyone's already thinking.
They're in their own world,thinking about themselves.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Or they already kind of know or think maybe.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And I talked to one person in particular in my
business world and I said, callhim Joe.
I said, joe, like I'm justamazed at the love I feel when
I'm sharing this.
And literally I get choked upevery time and he's like, well,
(16:32):
matt, you're getting back whatyou've put out.
And I'm like, well, like if Ilived my life as a complete
asshole, there would be somemean shit going around Not that
I would care, but that feltreally good.
But on the flip side, you know,I have my wife and her family
(16:55):
and friends who want to look atit like I'm a like a fucking
cheater, like look what I didall these years.
And I have to, I have to givethem that.
You know what I mean.
I did kind of draw a boundarywith my wife to say, look, I'm
not, I'm not going to let you,you, um, try to make me think
I'm a bad person, because I'mnot a bad person, I'm a good
person.
I did bad things.
I think she gets that right,but there's still anger.
(17:17):
Is that meant?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
yeah but in her she will find.
She will find happiness.
She's probably looking at it aslike my life's turned upside
down.
Now you know she's gonna haveto go out and find another
relationship and she and she'slike look, I'm 60, like why
didn't you do this earlier?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
now, I don't have time and it's like it's like
okay, well, would it have beenmore convenient if, when you
were 30 or 40 or 50, when wouldhave been the right time, right
like and, to be clear from ourlast discussion, like she had
warning signs back then too.
Yeah, but I just will never putthat on her.
Yeah, I mean like I just wouldnever do that to her.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So she will definitely find another
relationship, and what would befunny is the way that the world
works is she'll probably findsomebody else that went through
something, who is a widow orsomething like that, or widower
now what do I do?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
a widower?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
okay, a widow, widower gosh, could you imagine
she came as a lesbian and you'reall another story, but anyway,
but like you it's well then,we'd have, we'd have her up but
she will find something and thenshe'll probably come back to
you and say you know why if itdid happen earlier?
Just I'm telling you the waythat the world works.
(18:36):
It works in this craziest,mysterious ways and we all go
through things at certain pointsin our lives for certain
reasons.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I don't know why, but it has happened over and look,
I mean, there's a lot of people,and my wife and I included,
have always said everythinghappens for a reason, right.
So, and it look, it's not up tome to wish this or that for her
.
I wish her happiness, right.
And like the last time, shekind of texted me and said well,
(19:07):
you know, I want you to knowI'm, I'm just fine and I'm
dating.
And I texted back saying I lovehearing that, I'm so glad,
right.
Well, to me she took it thewrong way, right.
A lot, of, a lot of jealous youcan also.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You could also think about that too, is she?
She's also looking at this, asI lost my husband to another
person or or to something thatshe can't fix.
So it's and it's always saidthis it's hard in the
relationship.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
She can't make you love her so I mean we were best
friends.
I mean we we had a really likeoutside of that 2%, like those
walls up.
She was my best friend.
She was just a phenomenal wife,Like we really loved each other
.
The sex part was awkward and weboth knew it, so it kind of
(20:03):
terrified me Like, oh, I've gotto perform, and blah, blah, blah
, and she felt the terror also.
We were best friends and I justhope I said to her please,
please, please, understand thatwhat we had was real.
And she's like how could ithave been real when you were
(20:27):
doing this?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
and so you know, that was that two percent, that was
the other side, but my 98 wasreally me, right and so this,
like in the, in this momentbeing so fresh, like thinking
about all those years, do youtalk about it Like it may feel
like, oh, is that a waste?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
And you know.
So I just I will never thinklike that.
We had just like raising ourkids.
And can I get upset here and Iwon't regret anything and I hope
she doesn't right.
I just hope she finds someserenity that what we had was
(21:14):
real and the joy we had was realand that it wasn't a waste of
time, that it was real.
So it's hard, like obviously Ihave to give it to her that you
know when she says how could itwas real?
So it's hard, like obviously Ihave to give it to her that you
(21:35):
know when she says how could itbe real?
When you were doing all thisstuff and I thought that my
compartmentalization was soclean.
You know, here's my 98%, here'smy 2%.
There's a big wall in between.
Again, through therapy, like Ihad such anger my wife was
actually afraid of me, like thepast two or three years I had
anger, um anxiety issues.
I had um panic attacks andclaustrophobia, like came from
(21:59):
nowhere, just my, it was reallygetting bad and it had
everything to do with this bigfucking secret.
I was hiding whether it be theguilt or the effort that goes
into it, but it wasn't so clean,it wasn't so.
I thought I was doing just sucha phenomenal job at
(22:20):
compartmentalizing, but itdefinitely bled into my real
life as well.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I have to tell you I had very similar experiences and
we talked about this.
Like I compartmentalizedeverything I like, stuffed my
emotions down deep and it reallytook me finding this amazing
hypnotherapist, les Tackett.
She's incredible and sheliterally embottled this.
We're five sessions with me andit was just the most
(22:45):
uncomfortable five sessions,three hours each, that I've ever
done.
Yeah, I've got to tell you,three hours per session Because
I had a lot repressed.
I mean it was serious, but as Iwas talking, we both had like
these, like I was having tremorsjust flying on an airplane and
I never had anxiety that bad.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But I think when you just repress emotion for that
long, uh it just it's gonna comeout and spill out at some point
, right it's why did I like, whydid I decide to drive into
dallas that night it's, and like, literally like 30 days before
(23:25):
I did that, I think I told, toldyou the last session I woke up
one morning and said I'm goingto get caught.
I'm going to get caught Like Idon't know.
I've never thought that before.
So why did I decide?
So part of me is like yeah, Iwanted to get caught.
Okay, let's go.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So, now that you're caught caught, what are your
observations now?
Like, clearly, you've beenaround the community literally
for decades now.
Like that you've been observing, emphasizing these decades.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well, it's true let's just say a century it might be
better.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, here's the deal , like well, it's like reynolds,
he looks amazing.
So when you look amazing, youcan say that and you're like,
are you a vampire?
I mean, we can, okay, we canout you as a vampire too right
now if you want.
But I do, like the community.
It's just like evolved so muchand you've kind of been
observing it for a time, rightlike here and there.
So what are your thoughts?
(24:23):
I guess, back then and now andlike what I don't know, what's
your thoughts on?
I guess, back then and now andlike what I don't know what your
thoughts on it?
Did you ever think you weregoing to be a part of it One and
two?
Now that you're a part of it,what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Remember I said, you know, I thought it was about sex
and at some point, at variouspoints, it was about sex.
But it really this is weird tosay but it really wasn't about
sex.
So I would, way back when, whenI would go to gay bars once in
a while, once in a real bluemoon, I would order my gay drink
(24:56):
at gay bars was rum and Diet.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Coke, Rum and Diet Coke.
That's a gay drink.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I was like I saw this at our pre-show notes, I say
what is a gay drink?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
That was my drink when I went to a gay bar.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Bacardi and Diet Coke .
Bacardi and Diet Coke Right.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It wasn't live, but it was just like my thing when I
bellied up to a gay bar.
So you were asking about thatwas too straight right.
You were asking about myperceptions of the community.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So you have your game Right.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
So back then it was yeah, you know, let's look for a
hookup.
But gradually over the yearswas like I would sit at the bar
and maybe strike up a chat, butI would watch gay men just have
(25:54):
fun and laugh and be themselves.
And I was like, oh my God, thisis their safe, their safe space
.
And I was like this is acommunity and they're not
looking for sex, they're nothere to find sex.
And I was really jealous ofthat and I was an outsider
(26:14):
looking in and I think everybodyknew I was the you know in the
closet straight guy.
So that's one thing the gaycommunity I think is really good
at.
So that's one thing the gaycommunity I think is really good
at.
Also, like everybody's veryfriendly at.
Like Like well, I guess,certain bars, the club scene, no
.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
But what I thought was powerful, as you said to me,
we were at Roundup, which isour favorite bar yeah, we go to
and obviously a cool bar, yeah.
And you said something like, oh, I'm finally a part of this
community now that I like,wanted to be a part exactly so
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I'm not like sneaking around and afraid to get caught
or seen.
It feels so good to be part ofthe community.
Yeah, like, even even in thatscene, like I'm getting tired of
the the bar scene and I reallyam eager to mix it up like with
some normal stuff, like yourhiking, hiking club or something
(27:11):
, so.
So in Phoenix I was like, okay,let me.
When I threw in the towel andsaid okay, I'm gay, first thing
I did was looked up, um, youknow gay activities and there
was a gay hiking club and so Ijust I'm like you know what?
I'm going to go, I'm going tobring a little thing and get my
(27:32):
hiking shoes and we're going toclimb up this mountain.
And we met in the parking lotand there was like I don't know
12 or 15.
And I don't mean this the way itsounds, but very gay guys,
right, I was like I don't, I'mnot really fitting in here and
(27:52):
there was like two, two or threewomen, lesbians, I assumed and
you know some small chat again,before we even started the hike,
three guys I pulled aside, toldthem my whole story, how I was
outed and blah, blah, blah.
And they're like before thehike, three guys I pulled aside,
told them my whole story, how Iwas outed and blah, blah, blah
and they're like before the hikestarted they were like oh my
God.
They said thanks for sharingand then like fucking ran away
(28:16):
from me Like why did he justtell me all of it, right?
So we're halfway up themountain and I'm trying to like
make small chat whatever we takea break halfway up the mountain
and there's a woman kind ofstanding by herself and I was
standing by myself and I walkedup to her and I said hi, I'm
(28:36):
Matt.
She's like, hi, I'm Aaron.
We're like best buds.
Now.
She was.
She was a lesbian trying tocome out and trying to be a
member of the community andtrying to fit in, and we were in
the exact same boat and she'slike my first gay friend.
It's awesome.
Yeah, we're like buddies,that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
So what are your initial?
Is this what you thought thecommunity was going to be like?
Have you had anydisappointments yet, or are you
generally?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
obviously there's an ugly side to it also.
Right, there's um, I'm learningthere's there's a lot of okay,
sorry, there's a lot of gossipand yeah, you know, right.
So seventh grade girl shit thatI want no part of I have.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We have no idea about that.
I'm sure you don't.
We don't have a group chat.
That's on the shit about peoplewith side.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Group chat with my group like yeah, no, I don't, I
just don't, I don't, I don'twant to like get into that yeah,
we have regina george righthere then there's with my age.
I'm not, I've never evensocially, I've never been into
like um, hanging out with guysmy age, like I used to crossfit.
And I would hang out with 20,30 year olds and like for real,
(29:45):
no gay stuff, just that's who Iget along with no, homo no, but,
but.
but on the sexual side also, I'minto younger guys, um, and
there's a lot of like wait aminute, like are you doing this
for my money?
(30:06):
Or like be care, I know, andthat's what's so.
You will like that.
It makes you paranoid abouteverything you do and you know
that may not be fair to theperson you're you're talking to.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So I'll give you hold on, so I'll give you here we go
, here we go.
If you were dating somebody Idon't care what the age is,
whatever you're doing, datingwise, when you step up to the
plate, they need to step up tothe plate.
So it's just like when you goout to dinner, okay, they should
be willing to pay, just likeyou should be willing to pay.
(30:43):
Just make them.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
if they're taking advantage of the situations,
that's when you need to so, look, I'm learning to to draw my
boundaries and to make sure that, um, people are liking me for
the right reasons, and I've alsomet so many people who are just
so nice and they do like me andI like them.
We like to laugh, and so, yeah,I gotta be careful.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Um, because especially the younger crowds
will take advantage of you yeah,I'm pretty good at sniffing it
out.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Here comes adam and he's over here.
I have seen it all and I willsay adam, ryan, and I will vet
everybody for you and gougetheir eyes out if they hear you,
matt.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
So I used to on the strip.
I got to know like fivebartenders and I was like dude I
won't say their names, but Ihave a good friend bartender at
every one of those bars.
I'm like can you please watchout for me?
Like I'm brand new, like if I'mtalking to someone who I
(31:48):
shouldn't be talking to or youknow some scoop on, and just
watch out for me.
And they're like dude, I gotyou like yeah, that's good yeah,
yeah, we have a lot of positive.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I mean, there's a lot of negative too, but you'll
learn and that's gonna be alearning curve for you for sure.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
So let me talk about the sex side of this.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
That's the part we love.
Brian loves this part.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
So when I first moved here, I went a little crazy for
like a week.
What do you mean?
Not a week?
Oh, for like maybe ten days.
A little crazy.
Like you know, we were fourhookups in like ten days.
Did you say that this is whatI'm learning rear?
Four hookups in like ten days.
That's it, that's what I'mlearning.
(32:31):
I mean, you know, I'm a sexaddict, right?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
and if I had walked through the door of this
facility, I would have like beenburned up alive.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I think so actually I emailed my therapist like a
couple weeks ago and I saidstacy, I'll call her.
I've stopped the 12-step stuff.
I'm not a fucking sex addict,I'm gay.
And if I'm a sex addict thenevery gay man ever that walked
are sex addicts.
Because I'm, I don't have asmuch sex as they do.
(33:05):
Welcome to the club.
The other like weird thing tome was like I'd get to know
people, friends and hang outwith friend groups and they're
like, yeah, we fucked last night.
I'm like, yeah, cool, and I'lllet.
And I'm like, so wait, doesthat get a little awkward?
Like if he fucks someone elselike tomorrow?
And they're like, no, no, no,and I'm like, so you gotta be.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I still be careful that I mean, I think there's
still like, there's plenty of us.
There's still plenty of us.
I think that, yeah, thathappens, but there's also, like,
I think, cases where theremight be feelings or people not
addressing feelings, and there'sstill things there that are
going to come out.
Adam has so many feelings, somany feelings.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Stuart Medium's getting excited again.
Stuart Medium Coming toattention.
That's what we call Adam.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Question have you heard of Retmosur or ever used
Retmosur?
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I've seen it, I've been on it.
I've never used it um, I'm notbeing into spending money yeah,
but me neither.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I prefer to make it wow are we, are we?
Having a moment, ryan,something no, this is your show,
this is your moment.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I'm just um, maybe, but I got a feeling we're having
two coming down.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I gotta what's happening, turn on that air
conditioner I do think it'ssuper hot that when guys or
girls like, if they can, theycan commercialize themselves, I
have a lot.
What do you mean by I have alot of respect, because it takes
confidence and it's not all sex.
(34:44):
It's like there's a lot ofemotional stuff going on when
you draw someone in.
Part of that was really hot tome, but I'm not one to when I
spend money.
If I were to spend money inthat, I would be like oh my God,
that's like my family's money,that's my kids money.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So I take that pretty seriously.
She'd rather drink it.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, the money on.
We all make choices where whereour money is going.
So, where?
How are you?
Yeah, I don't know.
How are you choosing to?
How's your money?
How's your spending money inthe gay community, because it
can be also be.
Have you gone to puerto?
Vallarta yet like to travel, welike to travel, we want to do
(35:26):
this was not a part of over hisnote cards.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
But what are your gay wish list items?
I would love to know one like,like a port of ayrton.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Obviously me can knows, but like anything else
yeah, but I want to go with,like, just a group of guys that
we just have fucking so much funand laugh and yeah, fuck around
and like whatever, but I justwant to go to have fun, like I'm
not, I'm not, it's.
It's so weird how when I firstI was like, okay, I'm gay, let's
(35:57):
go fucking be gay.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Like that's not really high on my list, no it is
part, yeah, it's communitybeing free yourself, having fun
with other people that are doing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I mean, that's how we were doing a blast.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah Well, we're only national.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
That's how I told you .
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Like, if you guys are doing something fun aside from
the strip, yeah, I promise thatthey're a lot of them outside
the strap and we definitely likewhen we go outside of dallas,
like we also have just a ton offun.
There's like 10, 12, 15 of usjust like yeah, I don't know,
having a good time yeah andlaughing and having great
(36:36):
gossiping, love each other.
There's a lot of gossip, butit's okay.
Man, I can't wait for all thethe shit you're gonna talk about
certain people.
I'll I'll, I'll make sure nexttime we're at round up I'll tell
you all the shit abouteverybody.
Shit talked about me too.
That's all right, it's okay.
Yeah, I mean like a lot ofpeople talk shit about adam
because, well, it's out.
(36:56):
Yeah, I said a lot of shit too,but and he says a lot of but
I'll tell you right to your faceI don't hold back, he
definitely doesn't hold back.
So if you're going to sling itto Adam, make sure that you're
ready.
You can sling it to him.
I've learned not to throwstones and I still throw stones
at Adam but he just throwsboulders at me.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
But no, we have a really good community.
It's a lot of fun.
You just got to pick and choosewhere you want to be in that
community and what people youwant to be around.
And that's probably the biggestthing is you're going to go
through a lot of friends in thebeginning.
You're going to learn who arethe good people, who are the bad
, because even when I moved here, I was friends with everybody
and then I picked and choosed.
(37:38):
Well, I picked and choosed.
You know, know who my closefriends were, who I could really
count on and all that stuff.
And that's where I found notyou, and that's where I found
that was like a blank.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Oh man, what do you?
Speaker 4 (37:49):
would say to me, and that's where, like, I found the
close community that like mykickball league, like my team,
like we're already doing thingslike I'm sure it'll be canceled
with weather tomorrow.
Like last weekend, we went tosomeone's apartment and had taco
night and right, like we laugh.
Last weekend we did some daydrinking when, yeah, after,
(38:12):
after the game, and they're justlike you will find really good.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Nice is your is your kickball team all ages.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, were you not at Woody's?
Oh, you weren't at Woody's lastweek.
Oh, my god, it was like all thesweaty kickball guys.
Wait, did I see you?
I think, yeah, we saw eachother.
Yeah, it was a sweaty kickballboy.
Every Sunday it smelled like alocker room.
I think I walked in Woody's andcame.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Oh, I'm dead.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Ew, I wanted you to say you're just kidding.
No, I had to have somethinglike I don't know fiery to say
but yeah, no, there were all thekickball guys around.
I'm glad you're doing that.
I think it's good and like,look at the end of of the day,
like there's going to be peoplethat burn you, but don't let
that be like your it's so.
Yeah, it happened.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
it's just people I like the, I mean one, I like the
community aspect, looking forthat.
But two and I asked thequestion of your kickball team
have all ages, because Isomething that at least I feel
like I've learned through someof my experiences more maybe
last five to ten years and forme it was through AIDS life
cycle, so charity bike ride SanFrancisco to LA, but for me in
(39:32):
that experience I felt like Iconnected to people.
You know my age, but also like18 to 25, but also like 55, 70,
80 plus, and I'm getting suchlike multi-generational mix to
see so many differentexperiences and I think through
that I'm just, I mean, I would,I would just stress for
(39:55):
everybody.
I think that's really importantto be able to remind yourself.
Like you know, in this I havemy own experience, but you can
learn so much from other people,uh, with their own experiences,
and you get that throughdifferent ages especially.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
And you can have your preferences on grinder.
You know twink or jock orwhatever, but don't let that
dictate your community.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, yeah, for sure you should try's life cycle with
uh ryan.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
He took a break this year, but next year you're gonna
be bad oh, I'm big spokespersonfor I've done it for four or
rides, uh, but it's a charitybike ride from san francisco to
la on a bike yeah, we've got, uh, over 2 000 people do it.
We raise money for the la lgbtcenter in san francisco aids
foundation and it's just beenthe most like welcoming,
(40:49):
inviting.
This is the kind of stuff Iwant ever I would love to.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it's so cool.
I have not done the bike ride,I've been the um roadie at the
end of the ride and we we're sograteful for you it sets up the
charcuterie board with a lot ofcards with all the boys the hot,
sweaty boys and have theirfirst show Ready to eat yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Pool.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, it's always been a lot of fun.
And then they do, we do a poolparty at the Ondas West
Hollywood.
It's really fun Every year andeverybody's been so welcoming.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Fun and it's really fun every year and everybody's
been so welcoming fun and someit's also yeah, it has high
temperatures.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I also told matt that we have to get him into charity
season this year in dallas,since we have a lot of charity
here.
Yeah, you get to put on yourtuxedo, which I have to write a
check for five thousand.
You don't have to write a checkfor $5,000?
You don't have to write a check, unless you want to get
something at the silent auctionlike a big house.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Maybe, I don't know.
Does your company sponsoranything like that, or maybe
they already do?
Speaker 4 (41:55):
No, I am the company here, so no, they don't.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Black Tie Dinner in particular.
You can start that exactly.
Yeah, black tie dinner makesmore money for the human rights
campaign, which is our flagship,like uh, charity for the gay
community, than any othercharity, any other charity event
in the country.
And that's here in dallas,texas, which every time
somebody's like dallas texas islike a bunch of people that hate
gays, so like, please, we'reall gay here.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So I have that question, like we're in Texas.
Hey like the most, one of themost conservative.
Maybe North Dakota is moreconservative and I don't feel
any homophobia going on inDallas.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
And you'll also see that we have one of the tightest
close community ever.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
But also not.
You're not being attacked.
Nope.
In other words, conservative, aconservative viewpoint, a
conservative culture doesn'tmean they're racist or
homophobic Exactly.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Cause they want us to come into Highland park and,
you know, step the neighborhoodup even higher than what it
already is.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
We know gays turn shit around.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
We don't mess the neighborhood up.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
No, actually we went in down to Bishop Arts and we
like made it really super nicedown there.
That's where all the marriedgays are.
But you know, you're so rightand every time I'm on TikTok and
like making a comment aboutsomething, everyone like well,
you're a gay from texas,everybody hates you.
I'm like actually no, I am moreaccepted here, quite frankly,
than parts of la I'm not gonnalie.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Blaine says quite frankly you know it's getting
serious that was true.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Like if you've been to different parts of la, you
know that as a gay man you'reprobably not really accepted in
some communities.
I'm just saying it's true.
I feel feel very accepted inDallas.
Sure, you go to the rural areasof the state then maybe, but
like, for the most part, you cango to any major city in Texas.
I think it'd feel very like.
Right, it doesn't have to justbe Austin.
(43:53):
Actually, austin is just moreannoying people, quite frankly
(44:23):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think and people that we know feel safe here, yes
, in Dallas and in the city, butI just think it's also
important to be aware of thatidentity.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That's kind of universal right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
So I don't think that's a text but I'm glad that
you pointed that out from yourperspective, because I really
try to say that about texas.
I think a lot of our cities arevery open-minded and welcoming,
you know, and I look I havefriends from all different races
and backgrounds, not just beinggay, straight or whatever, and
(45:03):
I feel like we actually are verywelcoming.
It's not some like gun toting,racist, homophobic like thing
that everybody paints us as.
And, like I said, there's otherparts of this country that
proclaim to be liberal and all Iwalk around is see a bunch of,
like you know, people that youknow, quite frankly, would never
go and help a homeless personever.
(45:25):
I'm not talking about the westside of santa monica, but I am.
You know, a 10 million dollarhome that's 2 000 square feet.
Yeah, yeah, I'm talking aboutyou and you won't go feed a
homeless person down in skid rowperiod.
You wouldn't even go to skidrow.
Give me a freaking break.
So I do think we have a goodcommunity.
And adam's point, it is biotite.
Yeah, yeah, I get so mad whenpeople say that about dallas so
(45:48):
you're tired.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I'm just saying I feel it.
I mean I know I need, I knowI'm in texas and I I it's a
really great gay community I dolike it know it's different.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I can't wait for you to go to other gay communities,
because New York is spread out alittle bit.
La is very close.
They have a strip like we do,right In West Hollywood they
have one, obviously, and anotherplace too, but not all of them
are like have a strip like we do, and I think that makes it
great because we're able to justkind of like whip around, but
(46:22):
yeah, and because we're able tojust kind of like whip around,
um, but yeah, and we're alsoreally close to each other,
because even if you live in thesuburbs, like ryan, I'm so far
away I did actually when I firstmoved there it's northwest
dallas, it's still I stayedwithin the 635 you live 19
(46:51):
minutes.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, suburbs, I know , no, I, I I moved so when I
moved to dallas from california,but I started in, I know, and
now it goes a little bit out ofthe way.
But I'm really glad to havelike the house and I love
hosting and that's great.
You know, we've got a goodspace yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
It's really now that I'm there like it's not bad and
it's a good open space and we'vehad parties and parties.
So my apartment is like rightaround the corner from the strip
and I'm like, oh my God, whatdid I do?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Like I live around the corner from the strip too.
I learned from the strip tooand I love it.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Well, you're a sly, I've spent too much time there
and I just want to mix it up.
I like it, but it can't be likeit's easy to jump on that.
It's a week every week.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I'm moved to Uptown by the Crescent where I live.
It's just a little bit higher.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Just drive over Higher level we can hang out.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, but I'm just saying like, I'll show you my
neighborhood and I think you'lllike it because it's walkable,
like the Strip, but not lowerStringville.
You wouldn't want to live there, though.
Just saying For your next place, whenever that is Well.
Any closing thoughts?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Matt on this Towards the end.
This is such a goodconversation.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I mean it's so good.
We could literally do like an80 part series on this one, but
we're gonna leave this formatt's buck and we are super
thankful that he let us do that.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I love, thank you.
At first I was like nervousabout wait.
How much do I want to talkabout?
How much do I want to like,expose, expose.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
And I'm like you know what if I'm doing it for the
right reason, like Wait untilyou sit at that bar one day and
you have you come up to you andsay I'm in the closet.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
And then he's going to be ready to tell his stories.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It'll happen.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I was in your place.
Yeah, I know what you're goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
So I didn't do this to like be congratulated or, you
know, act like a hero oranything or courageous at all.
It's therapeutic for me to talkabout it.
Someone have a differentperspective, other than living a
(49:04):
lie with themselves and theirloved ones.
I just want to offer that Ithink it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
That's amazing, that's very brave and that is
such a great message that peopleneed to hear and thank you so
much for that, even if it's oneperson finds coffee with gays,
listens to this one episode.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Hopefully we have a few more than that watch out,
but we're not.
This is gonna read oh wait wait, dude, like ever.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Does everybody know this podcast?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
we're so famous.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
I mean, we're really not but I will say, like there
are people that like come up tome that I'm like really you
listen to that.
I have this okay, and I'll getinto some arguments.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
I don't even know how they listen to it Really, you
get into some arguments.
No, you know me I love anargument, Especially a few
drinks in about 10 o'clock, oryou know like 3 pm on like a
Sunday.
Or random.
Yeah, sunday fun days areanother.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Again, few resources for anybody.
You know eFlag, I think, is anamazing one for families looking
for help, and you know newlyout gay people, and then also
your local LGBTQ center, if youhave one in a city, and then the
Trevor Project is great as well, and then RAINN, and we'll go
ahead and post all these in ouruh bios and all of our social
(50:24):
media accounts as well foranybody that was a victim of any
kind of csa.
So also, this has been such agreat, amazing episode.
Thank you, matt I meanliterally like thanks for having
me at some point.
Yeah, thank you, I'm honored tobe here.
Thank you.
Yeah, we just want to help youtell your story and help anybody
(50:44):
that you know can be helped bythis, because poof coming at, we
all came out at one point andit was hard, and yours is hard.
So congratulations and we lookforward to your future and
cheers to the future and yourhappiness.
Cheers, adam, smile.
Hey y'all, it's Blaine.
Welcome to Coffee with Gaze.
And this is part two of Matt'sstory.
We actually recorded thisepisode over a year ago, right
before Pride of 2024.
And, for a multitude of reasons, we couldn't release it then
Timing, life, emotions, you nameit.
We had it, but now we'refinally ready, and we're so
proud to bring this episode toyou.
If you missed last week'sepisode're so proud to bring
(00:27):
this episode to you.
If you missed last week'sepisode, I encourage you to go
back and watch part one ofMatt's story.
He was outed by one of the mostdevastating ways possible A man
stole his phone, extorted hisfamily, and, after that, 35
years of marriage came crumblingdown.
This episode, though, is whatcame after.
It's not about the coming out.
It's about the rebuilding, thereclaiming and the belonging,
(00:48):
and this story really even hitme harder now, because I just
came back from a trip from Spain, where I met a man who is from
the so-called new Middle East.
You know, he's wealthy,professional, privileged, in his
late 30s, and he's moving toEurope.
And you say why?
Well, because his home countrypeople were asking why he's
moving to Europe.
And you say why?
Well, because in his homecountry, people were asking why
he's not married in his late 30s.
(01:08):
You know, there the questionisn't just social pressure, it's
a threat.
You can lose your job, yoursafety, your future, even when
you're privileged.
And that's still the reality inthe majority of the world.
Meanwhile, in the US, we forgethow recent our progress really
is.
Matt didn't grow up in 2025.
He grew up in a world wherecoming out could cost you
(01:30):
everything.
Some of y'all haven't even seenPhiladelphia where Tom Hanks
plays a gay lawyer you know,dying of AIDS, Hired by his firm
, rejected by his friends andco-workers and left to die alone
.
That was only in 1993.
It is not ancient history.
So, no, we don't get to judgepeople who didn't come out
sooner and we sure as hell don'tget to take our freedoms now
(01:53):
for granted.
There's a moment in this episodeI'll never forget.
Matt told me he used to go togay bars and he'd order his gay
drink a Bacardi and Coke and hewould watch people laughing and
being themselves and talking andrealized that this was a
community of people and he waskind of jealous and he wanted to
be a part of that.
And then we were standing atone of our gay bars here in
(02:13):
Dallas Roundup.
And he looked over to me andsaid, wow, I'm finally a part of
this community and I'm so happyto be here Such a pivotal
moment.
I was so happy to be there forthat, for him.
And that's what this story isall about Finding your people,
living your truth, no matter howlong it takes.
So, wherever you are, whoeveryou are, you get one life to
(02:35):
live it.
I hope Matt's story hits youthe same way it hit us.
So follow Coffee with Gaze formore stories that stay with you
and happy pride.
So enjoy part two of matt'sstory welcome to coffee with jay
welcome to coffee with gays.
(02:57):
I'm blade, I'm ryan, I'm adamand we are here with our special
guest, matt yay, yay, welcomeMatt, welcome back.
It is part two of your segment,because we wanted to split this
into two segments, and this isabout your new beginning and
embracing the community afterdecades of secrecy, really.
(03:19):
So we're really happy thatyou're here and, wow, that last
I just outed my age, sorry.
Sorry, but you're outing sogood, but you look so good.
Come on, matt, you look amazing.
We really super appreciate thestory and that was so heavy.
And thank you for coming backfor this new segment, because I
think one of the interestingthings to us was, when we were
(03:41):
talking about this is, yes,there was a lot of heaviness and
a lot of things that you had todeal with, but then there's
also been a lot of revelationsand, I think, a lot of happiness
and joy that people canactually look forward to when
coming out and making a decisionlike this.
So we kind of wanted to, youknow, talk about that too.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think it's really really important to talk about,
like the life after.
So after you were ripped out ofthe closet and after everything
was thrown out on the table andliterally butcher shops and
thrown back into your life, youknow where do you stand now.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
I mean, it's six weeks in a treatment, but it's.
It's still very new, so it's abig journey ahead of me, but I
can.
I can tell you what it's beensince I've Acknowledged my
gayness and to recap foreverybody, that was september
1st of last year.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
We're now in may, so it's only been like what I got
out of seven months treatmentmid-october, and it wasn't until
somewhere around December,january, where I said yeah, okay
.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And I ask what were the holidays like for you this
time, ah?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
you know what?
I don't even remember them.
Well, like honestly.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Did you spend them with your kids?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
I don't remember.
I know one of them or maybeboth of them.
They went back to new jersey tobe with my wife.
So I remember thanksgiving Iwas feeling a little lonely,
honestly I don't like.
And christmas, yeah, I think wehad people around.
Um, I was in phoenix and christChristmas I was with my at
(05:26):
least one of my kids here inPhoenix.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Okay, so do you currently live in Dallas right
now?
Yes, okay, when did you move?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Early March.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Well, and what made you decide to do that?
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Again, it wasn't my decision.
And what made you decide to dothat?
Again, it wasn't my decision.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Um, my previous boss, after he was so gracious and so
generous with me being awayknew that I was now single and
he felt it was important for meto be in Dallas in the office
(06:10):
had that not happened, likewhere do you think you'd live or
where do you choose?
Speaker 4 (06:12):
So I actually, when I got out of treatment, my wife
had.
While I was in treatment mywife had said by the way, your
stuff is with my daughter.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
So she packed your stuff and moved it out.
Speaker 4 (06:23):
She packed my stuff, moved it out, daughter.
So she packed your stuff andmoved it out.
She packed my stuff, moved itout when I got out of treatment.
I have a place in Phoenix, butI rent that out for income.
So I got an apartment.
I signed a lease in Phoenix,Maybe like January 1st.
I was there two months.
My boss asked me to move, sothe company had to buy out my
lease.
I was a couple miles up theroad from my two daughters and
(06:47):
my grandson, which was justideal, but again in hindsight I
think they needed their spaceand I needed my space.
So I didn't want to move toDallas, but I think it was best
thing for everyone.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
What's your thought so far, by the way, of the
Dallas gay community, because Ithink it's one of the best gay
communities in our country.
That's my thought.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
So I don't have a lifelong history of knowing gay
communities, but I did make aneffort in Phoenix and I started
to make an effort.
I wasn't there very long but Ilooked for stuff.
I found one gay hiking club andI did that once.
It was good.
That's a whole story there also.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Another fun story in the woods.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
No no.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Very clean.
But so I didn't really feel acommunity there, and maybe it's
because I was spending my timewith my family and I was still
going to 12 step treatmentswhere you know I can't do this,
this or that, like drink or vape, or like I was still in the I'm
a sex addict mode.
(07:55):
So the Dallas gay community hasjust been phenomenal.
I really feel like a part of acommunity here.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, I want, I want to know, just in your story I'm
hearing a lot of choices orthings happening that weren't
your choice, from being rippedout to choosing to even be in
Dallas what are you intending ondoing now that Matt is going to
decide?
I'm going to do this for me now.
(08:23):
Is there any of that, Ryan?
Speaker 4 (08:25):
holy shit, you sound like my therapist my god could
like be your next classes.
You go to add it to my sevenreal job because I mean that
brought me back to therapy wherethey were like, um, my wants
and needs matter, and my wantsand needs never mattered before,
except for this entitlementthing on the side.
(08:48):
Everything else was always forother people.
So, yeah, that's a really goodquestion and I'm still learning
that Absolutely.
I'm saying to my kids like youknow what I need to do this for
me.
Now it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right and you're exploring that for yourself.
But I think on our last episodewe talked about mourning the
end of that life that you hadbefore, and is there a sense
everyone's kind of going throughsome of that pain?
Do you feel, while you'remaking those decisions decisions
(09:25):
looking for your own happinessdo you feel still a sense of um
responsibility or or any of thatpain, or how is everyone
processing?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
and it's, it's funny.
I mean, look, I and there'sgonna be waves coming, um, and I
feel like I'm right now gettinginto a wave of okay, look I,
look, I've announced that I'mgay.
I've told everybody I can tellwhether they want to hear it or
not that I'm gay and it feelsphenomenal to say that.
(09:55):
And gee, I'm meeting greatpeople, you know, dating and
stuff in Dallas and doing things, and I'm now kind of settling,
I guess, into a little bit ofreality and the sadness is kind
of seeping back in.
I've had dreams the pastseveral nights about my wife
that I hadn't had before.
So I'm starting to miss my oldlife now a little bit.
(10:19):
So there's going to be somephases to go through here.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
It's going to be ups and downs, definitely going to
be ups and downs.
I mean it's one of those thingswhere it's your past life was
all you knew.
So it's hard to just sit thereand turn around and be like you
know, see, with your old life,you know here's the new life
You're going to have.
That it's part of you know,it's just nature.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Do you ever feel guilty when you?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
feel happy, enjoying your new life as a part of this
new community.
So I have shared a few too manyhappy things, with one of my
daughters in particular.
You know I share things that Ithink people can handle, and
even this one daughter was likeyou know what, dad, that's great
, but a little TMI and we're allkind of still hurting, right.
(11:09):
So you know they don't want tohear about my dating or I'm just
being less.
It was like a big wake up call.
Like, oh my God, like theirheads are still spinning Right,
the family is completelydifferent, dynamics are
different.
My wife and I aren't eventalking at all and the kids are
(11:31):
in the middle of that and here Iam oh, this is so fun, this is
this and this is that.
And I'm playing in the gaykickball league and I've got a
special friend and they're likeyeah, they're like we're really
glad you're happy and that wedon't have to worry about you,
but like, ease up Right, ease upon the happiness, because we're
still hurting here.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, which I mean rightfully so.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I was like yeah, like , duh, Like, what have I been
doing?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Everybody has their own journey through this,
especially your immediate family, so I can understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
But I also think it's okay for you, at least
personally, to celebrate and behappy in your new life and the
fact that you're now honest andliving a true life.
I don't think, you know, youhave to constantly prostrate
yourself for the rest of yourlife.
You know, or feel like thisterrible guilt.
Um, I mean, I'm sure there'salways a bit of that right, but
(12:25):
like you should enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Yeah, I went through a lot of therapy about guilt
versus shame and it took a lotof work to get rid of the shame
and it's okay to haveappropriate guilt.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Does it feel natural now, and the way that I say that
is here's how I can say it.
When I first came out, itdidn't just I could, like the
stress came off of me and I'msure you felt that that boulder
come off of you, cause we've allbeen there, like I don't worry
about who knows where what I'mlooking like or you know who's
(12:59):
going to say something to meanymore.
I'm just like here it is, thisis me and this is it.
Do you feel that way, or do youstill feel like that?
That kind of like I don't wanteverybody knowing yet no, it's
um.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
I've told people who could care less whether I'm gay
or straight or anything else,like if I get one little opening
to tell them my story, I tellthem and then they're like good
for you, buddy.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
I'm just here to deliver your mail.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Yeah, pretty much like that.
So I've said to myself like ifI could have written the rosiest
imagination of what it would belike when I was in the closet,
of how it would feel and what itwould be like, I couldn't have
come close to it.
You know what I mean.
(13:50):
So it was always an imaginationof terror when I was in it.
But even if I tried to paintthe best picture on how great it
would be and this is the kindof stuff I want people who are
in the closet to understand it'sjust like unbelievable I can't
(14:11):
even put it into words at howcomfortable it feels to just not
have anything to hide.
It's just.
And the second part of that isthe family, the friends, the
business associates, thecustomers, my colleagues.
I've cried when I've toldpeople.
(14:32):
I still when I tell I told acustomer a couple days ago who
you know we're close but and shewasn't asking, she wasn't being
like nosy.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
How's the order?
I'm gay.
What, what.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Who?
Yeah, something I was like.
Hey, you know, did you hearabout the break I took last fall
when I ducked out she?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
goes yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
I heard something about that, but you know she
wasn't digging or prying Rightand I said well, let me tell you
what happened.
And I said, well, let me tellyou what happened and told her
the whole story.
And my sales rep who I've nevertold directly, I've told others
but not like I get everybodytogether and tell them, you know
, make an announcement out of it.
As a matter of fact, when I waswaiting for you to let me in
here, she texted me and said hey, I just spoke to Dr So-and-so
(15:21):
and like that's amazing that youare so vulnerable and she was
so appreciative of you sharingthat with her and be you Right.
So that kind of reaction everytime I get it I get choked up.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Like just unbelievable.
Were you surprised?
Like would you say, themajority of people were a lot
more accepting than youanticipated?
Because I know when I came out,that's my that, that was my
reaction.
I thought people that wouldhate me didn't?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
no one gives a fuck I think that's true.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Nobody gives a fuck.
We paint this big image in ourhead that everyone cares, but
really it's not them.
Everyone's already thinking.
They're in their own world,thinking about themselves.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Or they already kind of know or think maybe.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
And I talked to one person in particular in my
business world and I said, callhim Joe.
I said, joe, like I'm justamazed at the love I feel when
I'm sharing this.
And literally I get choked upevery time and he's like, well,
(16:32):
matt, you're getting back whatyou've put out.
And I'm like, well, like if Ilived my life as a complete
asshole, there would be somemean shit going around Not that
I would care, but that feltreally good.
But on the flip side, you know,I have my wife and her family
(16:55):
and friends who want to look atit like I'm a like a fucking
cheater, like look what I didall these years.
And I have to, I have to givethem that.
You know what I mean.
I did kind of draw a boundarywith my wife to say, look, I'm
not, I'm not going to let you,you, um, try to make me think
I'm a bad person, because I'mnot a bad person, I'm a good
person.
I did bad things.
I think she gets that right,but there's still anger.
(17:17):
Is that meant?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
yeah but in her she will find.
She will find happiness.
She's probably looking at it aslike my life's turned upside
down.
Now you know she's gonna haveto go out and find another
relationship and she and she'slike look, I'm 60, like why
didn't you do this earlier?
Speaker 4 (17:35):
now, I don't have time and it's like it's like
okay, well, would it have beenmore convenient if, when you
were 30 or 40 or 50, when wouldhave been the right time, right
like and, to be clear from ourlast discussion, like she had
warning signs back then too.
Yeah, but I just will never putthat on her.
Yeah, I mean like I just wouldnever do that to her.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So she will definitely find another
relationship, and what would befunny is the way that the world
works is she'll probably findsomebody else that went through
something, who is a widow orsomething like that, or widower
now what do I do?
Speaker 4 (18:13):
a widower?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
okay, a widow, widower gosh, could you imagine
she came as a lesbian and you'reall another story, but anyway,
but like you it's well then,we'd have, we'd have her up but
she will find something and thenshe'll probably come back to
you and say you know why if itdid happen earlier?
Just I'm telling you the waythat the world works.
(18:36):
It works in this craziest,mysterious ways and we all go
through things at certain pointsin our lives for certain
reasons.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I don't know why, but it has happened over and look,
I mean, there's a lot of people,and my wife and I included,
have always said everythinghappens for a reason, right.
So, and it look, it's not up tome to wish this or that for her
.
I wish her happiness, right.
And like the last time, shekind of texted me and said well,
(19:07):
you know, I want you to knowI'm, I'm just fine and I'm
dating.
And I texted back saying I lovehearing that, I'm so glad,
right.
Well, to me she took it thewrong way, right.
A lot, of, a lot of jealous youcan also.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You could also think about that too, is she?
She's also looking at this, asI lost my husband to another
person or or to something thatshe can't fix.
So it's and it's always saidthis it's hard in the
relationship.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
She can't make you love her so I mean we were best
friends.
I mean we we had a really likeoutside of that 2%, like those
walls up.
She was my best friend.
She was just a phenomenal wife,Like we really loved each other
.
The sex part was awkward and weboth knew it, so it kind of
(20:03):
terrified me Like, oh, I've gotto perform, and blah, blah, blah
, and she felt the terror also.
We were best friends and I justhope I said to her please,
please, please, understand thatwhat we had was real.
And she's like how could ithave been real when you were
(20:27):
doing this?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
and so you know, that was that two percent, that was
the other side, but my 98 wasreally me, right and so this,
like in the, in this momentbeing so fresh, like thinking
about all those years, do youtalk about it Like it may feel
like, oh, is that a waste?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
And you know.
So I just I will never thinklike that.
We had just like raising ourkids.
And can I get upset here and Iwon't regret anything and I hope
she doesn't right.
I just hope she finds someserenity that what we had was
(21:14):
real and the joy we had was realand that it wasn't a waste of
time, that it was real.
So it's hard, like obviously Ihave to give it to her that you
know when she says how could itwas real?
So it's hard, like obviously Ihave to give it to her that you
(21:35):
know when she says how could itbe real?
When you were doing all thisstuff and I thought that my
compartmentalization was soclean.
You know, here's my 98%, here'smy 2%.
There's a big wall in between.
Again, through therapy, like Ihad such anger my wife was
actually afraid of me, like thepast two or three years I had
anger, um anxiety issues.
I had um panic attacks andclaustrophobia, like came from
(21:59):
nowhere, just my, it was reallygetting bad and it had
everything to do with this bigfucking secret.
I was hiding whether it be theguilt or the effort that goes
into it, but it wasn't so clean,it wasn't so.
I thought I was doing just sucha phenomenal job at
(22:20):
compartmentalizing, but itdefinitely bled into my real
life as well.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I have to tell you I had very similar experiences and
we talked about this.
Like I compartmentalizedeverything I like, stuffed my
emotions down deep and it reallytook me finding this amazing
hypnotherapist, les Tackett.
She's incredible and sheliterally embottled this.
We're five sessions with me andit was just the most
(22:45):
uncomfortable five sessions,three hours each, that I've ever
done.
Yeah, I've got to tell you,three hours per session Because
I had a lot repressed.
I mean it was serious, but as Iwas talking, we both had like
these, like I was having tremorsjust flying on an airplane and
I never had anxiety that bad.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But I think when you just repress emotion for that
long, uh it just it's gonna comeout and spill out at some point
, right it's why did I like, whydid I decide to drive into
dallas that night it's, and like, literally like 30 days before
(23:25):
I did that, I think I told, toldyou the last session I woke up
one morning and said I'm goingto get caught.
I'm going to get caught Like Idon't know.
I've never thought that before.
So why did I decide?
So part of me is like yeah, Iwanted to get caught.
Okay, let's go.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So, now that you're caught caught, what are your
observations now?
Like, clearly, you've beenaround the community literally
for decades now.
Like that you've been observing, emphasizing these decades.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Well, it's true let's just say a century it might be
better.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Well, here's the deal , like well, it's like reynolds,
he looks amazing.
So when you look amazing, youcan say that and you're like,
are you a vampire?
I mean, we can, okay, we canout you as a vampire too right
now if you want.
But I do, like the community.
It's just like evolved so muchand you've kind of been
observing it for a time, rightlike here and there.
So what are your thoughts?
(24:23):
I guess, back then and now andlike what I don't know, what's
your thoughts on?
I guess, back then and now andlike what I don't know what your
thoughts on it?
Did you ever think you weregoing to be a part of it One and
two?
Now that you're a part of it,what are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Remember I said, you know, I thought it was about sex
and at some point, at variouspoints, it was about sex.
But it really this is weird tosay but it really wasn't about
sex.
So I would, way back when, whenI would go to gay bars once in
a while, once in a real bluemoon, I would order my gay drink
(24:56):
at gay bars was rum and Diet.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Coke, Rum and Diet Coke.
That's a gay drink.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
I was like I saw this at our pre-show notes, I say
what is a gay drink?
Speaker 4 (25:07):
That was my drink when I went to a gay bar.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Bacardi and Diet Coke .
Bacardi and Diet Coke Right.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
It wasn't live, but it was just like my thing when I
bellied up to a gay bar.
So you were asking about thatwas too straight right.
You were asking about myperceptions of the community.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
So you have your game Right.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
So back then it was yeah, you know, let's look for a
hookup.
But gradually over the yearswas like I would sit at the bar
and maybe strike up a chat, butI would watch gay men just have
(25:54):
fun and laugh and be themselves.
And I was like, oh my God, thisis their safe, their safe space
.
And I was like this is acommunity and they're not
looking for sex, they're nothere to find sex.
And I was really jealous ofthat and I was an outsider
(26:14):
looking in and I think everybodyknew I was the you know in the
closet straight guy.
So that's one thing the gaycommunity I think is really good
at.
So that's one thing the gaycommunity I think is really good
at.
Also, like everybody's veryfriendly at.
Like Like well, I guess,certain bars, the club scene, no
.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
But what I thought was powerful, as you said to me,
we were at Roundup, which isour favorite bar yeah, we go to
and obviously a cool bar, yeah.
And you said something like, oh, I'm finally a part of this
community now that I like,wanted to be a part exactly so
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I'm not like sneaking around and afraid to get caught
or seen.
It feels so good to be part ofthe community.
Yeah, like, even even in thatscene, like I'm getting tired of
the the bar scene and I reallyam eager to mix it up like with
some normal stuff, like yourhiking, hiking club or something
(27:11):
, so.
So in Phoenix I was like, okay,let me.
When I threw in the towel andsaid okay, I'm gay, first thing
I did was looked up, um, youknow gay activities and there
was a gay hiking club and so Ijust I'm like you know what?
I'm going to go, I'm going tobring a little thing and get my
(27:32):
hiking shoes and we're going toclimb up this mountain.
And we met in the parking lotand there was like I don't know
12 or 15.
And I don't mean this the way itsounds, but very gay guys,
right, I was like I don't, I'mnot really fitting in here and
(27:52):
there was like two, two or threewomen, lesbians, I assumed and
you know some small chat again,before we even started the hike,
three guys I pulled aside, toldthem my whole story, how I was
outed and blah, blah, blah.
And they're like before thehike, three guys I pulled aside,
told them my whole story, how Iwas outed and blah, blah, blah
and they're like before the hikestarted they were like oh my
God.
They said thanks for sharingand then like fucking ran away
(28:16):
from me Like why did he justtell me all of it, right?
So we're halfway up themountain and I'm trying to like
make small chat whatever we takea break halfway up the mountain
and there's a woman kind ofstanding by herself and I was
standing by myself and I walkedup to her and I said hi, I'm
(28:36):
Matt.
She's like, hi, I'm Aaron.
We're like best buds.
Now.
She was.
She was a lesbian trying tocome out and trying to be a
member of the community andtrying to fit in, and we were in
the exact same boat and she'slike my first gay friend.
It's awesome.
Yeah, we're like buddies,that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
So what are your initial?
Is this what you thought thecommunity was going to be like?
Have you had anydisappointments yet, or are you
generally?
Speaker 4 (29:00):
obviously there's an ugly side to it also.
Right, there's um, I'm learningthere's there's a lot of okay,
sorry, there's a lot of gossipand yeah, you know, right.
So seventh grade girl shit thatI want no part of I have.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
We have no idea about that.
I'm sure you don't.
We don't have a group chat.
That's on the shit about peoplewith side.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
Group chat with my group like yeah, no, I don't, I
just don't, I don't, I don'twant to like get into that yeah,
we have regina george righthere then there's with my age.
I'm not, I've never evensocially, I've never been into
like um, hanging out with guysmy age, like I used to crossfit.
And I would hang out with 20,30 year olds and like for real,
(29:45):
no gay stuff, just that's who Iget along with no, homo no, but,
but.
but on the sexual side also, I'minto younger guys, um, and
there's a lot of like wait aminute, like are you doing this
for my money?
(30:06):
Or like be care, I know, andthat's what's so.
You will like that.
It makes you paranoid abouteverything you do and you know
that may not be fair to theperson you're you're talking to.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
So I'll give you hold on, so I'll give you here we go
, here we go.
If you were dating somebody Idon't care what the age is,
whatever you're doing, datingwise, when you step up to the
plate, they need to step up tothe plate.
So it's just like when you goout to dinner, okay, they should
be willing to pay, just likeyou should be willing to pay.
(30:43):
Just make them.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
if they're taking advantage of the situations,
that's when you need to so, look, I'm learning to to draw my
boundaries and to make sure that, um, people are liking me for
the right reasons, and I've alsomet so many people who are just
so nice and they do like me andI like them.
We like to laugh, and so, yeah,I gotta be careful.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Um, because especially the younger crowds
will take advantage of you yeah,I'm pretty good at sniffing it
out.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Here comes adam and he's over here.
I have seen it all and I willsay adam, ryan, and I will vet
everybody for you and gougetheir eyes out if they hear you,
matt.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
So I used to on the strip.
I got to know like fivebartenders and I was like dude I
won't say their names, but Ihave a good friend bartender at
every one of those bars.
I'm like can you please watchout for me?
Like I'm brand new, like if I'mtalking to someone who I
(31:48):
shouldn't be talking to or youknow some scoop on, and just
watch out for me.
And they're like dude, I gotyou like yeah, that's good yeah,
yeah, we have a lot of positive.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I mean, there's a lot of negative too, but you'll
learn and that's gonna be alearning curve for you for sure.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
So let me talk about the sex side of this.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
That's the part we love.
Brian loves this part.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
So when I first moved here, I went a little crazy for
like a week.
What do you mean?
Not a week?
Oh, for like maybe ten days.
A little crazy.
Like you know, we were fourhookups in like ten days.
Did you say that this is whatI'm learning rear?
Four hookups in like ten days.
That's it, that's what I'mlearning.
(32:31):
I mean, you know, I'm a sexaddict, right?
Speaker 1 (32:35):
and if I had walked through the door of this
facility, I would have like beenburned up alive.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
I think so actually I emailed my therapist like a
couple weeks ago and I saidstacy, I'll call her.
I've stopped the 12-step stuff.
I'm not a fucking sex addict,I'm gay.
And if I'm a sex addict thenevery gay man ever that walked
are sex addicts.
Because I'm, I don't have asmuch sex as they do.
(33:05):
Welcome to the club.
The other like weird thing tome was like I'd get to know
people, friends and hang outwith friend groups and they're
like, yeah, we fucked last night.
I'm like, yeah, cool, and I'lllet.
And I'm like, so wait, doesthat get a little awkward?
Like if he fucks someone elselike tomorrow?
And they're like, no, no, no,and I'm like, so you gotta be.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
I still be careful that I mean, I think there's
still like, there's plenty of us.
There's still plenty of us.
I think that, yeah, thathappens, but there's also, like,
I think, cases where theremight be feelings or people not
addressing feelings, and there'sstill things there that are
going to come out.
Adam has so many feelings, somany feelings.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
Stuart Medium's getting excited again.
Stuart Medium Coming toattention.
That's what we call Adam.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Question have you heard of Retmosur or ever used
Retmosur?
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I've seen it, I've been on it.
I've never used it um, I'm notbeing into spending money yeah,
but me neither.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I prefer to make it wow are we, are we?
Having a moment, ryan,something no, this is your show,
this is your moment.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I'm just um, maybe, but I got a feeling we're having
two coming down.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
I gotta what's happening, turn on that air
conditioner I do think it'ssuper hot that when guys or
girls like, if they can, theycan commercialize themselves, I
have a lot.
What do you mean by I have alot of respect, because it takes
confidence and it's not all sex.
(34:44):
It's like there's a lot ofemotional stuff going on when
you draw someone in.
Part of that was really hot tome, but I'm not one to when I
spend money.
If I were to spend money inthat, I would be like oh my God,
that's like my family's money,that's my kids money.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
So I take that pretty seriously.
She'd rather drink it.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, the money on.
We all make choices where whereour money is going.
So, where?
How are you?
Yeah, I don't know.
How are you choosing to?
How's your money?
How's your spending money inthe gay community, because it
can be also be.
Have you gone to puerto?
Vallarta yet like to travel, welike to travel, we want to do
(35:26):
this was not a part of over hisnote cards.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
But what are your gay wish list items?
I would love to know one like,like a port of ayrton.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Obviously me can knows, but like anything else
yeah, but I want to go with,like, just a group of guys that
we just have fucking so much funand laugh and yeah, fuck around
and like whatever, but I justwant to go to have fun, like I'm
not, I'm not, it's.
It's so weird how when I firstI was like, okay, I'm gay, let's
(35:57):
go fucking be gay.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Like that's not really high on my list, no it is
part, yeah, it's communitybeing free yourself, having fun
with other people that are doing.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I mean, that's how we were doing a blast.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah Well, we're only national.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
That's how I told you .
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Like, if you guys are doing something fun aside from
the strip, yeah, I promise thatthey're a lot of them outside
the strap and we definitely likewhen we go outside of dallas,
like we also have just a ton offun.
There's like 10, 12, 15 of usjust like yeah, I don't know,
having a good time yeah andlaughing and having great
(36:36):
gossiping, love each other.
There's a lot of gossip, butit's okay.
Man, I can't wait for all thethe shit you're gonna talk about
certain people.
I'll I'll, I'll make sure nexttime we're at round up I'll tell
you all the shit abouteverybody.
Shit talked about me too.
That's all right, it's okay.
Yeah, I mean like a lot ofpeople talk shit about adam
because, well, it's out.
(36:56):
Yeah, I said a lot of shit too,but and he says a lot of but
I'll tell you right to your faceI don't hold back, he
definitely doesn't hold back.
So if you're going to sling itto Adam, make sure that you're
ready.
You can sling it to him.
I've learned not to throwstones and I still throw stones
at Adam but he just throwsboulders at me.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
But no, we have a really good community.
It's a lot of fun.
You just got to pick and choosewhere you want to be in that
community and what people youwant to be around.
And that's probably the biggestthing is you're going to go
through a lot of friends in thebeginning.
You're going to learn who arethe good people, who are the bad
, because even when I moved here, I was friends with everybody
and then I picked and choosed.
(37:38):
Well, I picked and choosed.
You know, know who my closefriends were, who I could really
count on and all that stuff.
And that's where I found notyou, and that's where I found
that was like a blank.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Oh man, what do you?
Speaker 4 (37:49):
would say to me, and that's where, like, I found the
close community that like mykickball league, like my team,
like we're already doing thingslike I'm sure it'll be canceled
with weather tomorrow.
Like last weekend, we went tosomeone's apartment and had taco
night and right, like we laugh.
Last weekend we did some daydrinking when, yeah, after,
(38:12):
after the game, and they're justlike you will find really good.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Nice is your is your kickball team all ages.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, were you not at Woody's?
Oh, you weren't at Woody's lastweek.
Oh, my god, it was like all thesweaty kickball guys.
Wait, did I see you?
I think, yeah, we saw eachother.
Yeah, it was a sweaty kickballboy.
Every Sunday it smelled like alocker room.
I think I walked in Woody's andcame.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Oh, I'm dead.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Ew, I wanted you to say you're just kidding.
No, I had to have somethinglike I don't know fiery to say
but yeah, no, there were all thekickball guys around.
I'm glad you're doing that.
I think it's good and like,look at the end of of the day,
like there's going to be peoplethat burn you, but don't let
that be like your it's so.
Yeah, it happened.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
it's just people I like the, I mean one, I like the
community aspect, looking forthat.
But two and I asked thequestion of your kickball team
have all ages, because Isomething that at least I feel
like I've learned through someof my experiences more maybe
last five to ten years and forme it was through AIDS life
cycle, so charity bike ride SanFrancisco to LA, but for me in
(39:32):
that experience I felt like Iconnected to people.
You know my age, but also like18 to 25, but also like 55, 70,
80 plus, and I'm getting suchlike multi-generational mix to
see so many differentexperiences and I think through
that I'm just, I mean, I would,I would just stress for
(39:55):
everybody.
I think that's really importantto be able to remind yourself.
Like you know, in this I havemy own experience, but you can
learn so much from other people,uh, with their own experiences,
and you get that throughdifferent ages especially.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
And you can have your preferences on grinder.
You know twink or jock orwhatever, but don't let that
dictate your community.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, yeah, for sure you should try's life cycle with
uh ryan.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
He took a break this year, but next year you're gonna
be bad oh, I'm big spokespersonfor I've done it for four or
rides, uh, but it's a charitybike ride from san francisco to
la on a bike yeah, we've got, uh, over 2 000 people do it.
We raise money for the la lgbtcenter in san francisco aids
foundation and it's just beenthe most like welcoming,
(40:49):
inviting.
This is the kind of stuff Iwant ever I would love to.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it's so cool.
I have not done the bike ride,I've been the um roadie at the
end of the ride and we we're sograteful for you it sets up the
charcuterie board with a lot ofcards with all the boys the hot,
sweaty boys and have theirfirst show Ready to eat yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Pool.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah, it's always been a lot of fun.
And then they do, we do a poolparty at the Ondas West
Hollywood.
It's really fun Every year andeverybody's been so welcoming.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Fun and it's really fun every year and everybody's
been so welcoming fun and someit's also yeah, it has high
temperatures.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I also told matt that we have to get him into charity
season this year in dallas,since we have a lot of charity
here.
Yeah, you get to put on yourtuxedo, which I have to write a
check for five thousand.
You don't have to write a checkfor $5,000?
You don't have to write a check, unless you want to get
something at the silent auctionlike a big house.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Maybe, I don't know.
Does your company sponsoranything like that, or maybe
they already do?
Speaker 4 (41:55):
No, I am the company here, so no, they don't.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Black Tie Dinner in particular.
You can start that exactly.
Yeah, black tie dinner makesmore money for the human rights
campaign, which is our flagship,like uh, charity for the gay
community, than any othercharity, any other charity event
in the country.
And that's here in dallas,texas, which every time
somebody's like dallas texas islike a bunch of people that hate
gays, so like, please, we'reall gay here.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So I have that question, like we're in Texas.
Hey like the most, one of themost conservative.
Maybe North Dakota is moreconservative and I don't feel
any homophobia going on inDallas.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
And you'll also see that we have one of the tightest
close community ever.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
But also not.
You're not being attacked.
Nope.
In other words, conservative, aconservative viewpoint, a
conservative culture doesn'tmean they're racist or
homophobic Exactly.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Cause they want us to come into Highland park and,
you know, step the neighborhoodup even higher than what it
already is.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
We know gays turn shit around.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
We don't mess the neighborhood up.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
No, actually we went in down to Bishop Arts and we
like made it really super nicedown there.
That's where all the marriedgays are.
But you know, you're so rightand every time I'm on TikTok and
like making a comment aboutsomething, everyone like well,
you're a gay from texas,everybody hates you.
I'm like actually no, I am moreaccepted here, quite frankly,
than parts of la I'm not gonnalie.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Blaine says quite frankly you know it's getting
serious that was true.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Like if you've been to different parts of la, you
know that as a gay man you'reprobably not really accepted in
some communities.
I'm just saying it's true.
I feel feel very accepted inDallas.
Sure, you go to the rural areasof the state then maybe, but
like, for the most part, you cango to any major city in Texas.
I think it'd feel very like.
Right, it doesn't have to justbe Austin.
(43:53):
Actually, austin is just moreannoying people, quite frankly
(44:23):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I think and people that we know feel safe here, yes
, in Dallas and in the city, butI just think it's also
important to be aware of thatidentity.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
That's kind of universal right, I mean.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
So I don't think that's a text but I'm glad that
you pointed that out from yourperspective, because I really
try to say that about texas.
I think a lot of our cities arevery open-minded and welcoming,
you know, and I look I havefriends from all different races
and backgrounds, not just beinggay, straight or whatever, and
(45:03):
I feel like we actually are verywelcoming.
It's not some like gun toting,racist, homophobic like thing
that everybody paints us as.
And, like I said, there's otherparts of this country that
proclaim to be liberal and all Iwalk around is see a bunch of,
like you know, people that youknow, quite frankly, would never
go and help a homeless personever.
(45:25):
I'm not talking about the westside of santa monica, but I am.
You know, a 10 million dollarhome that's 2 000 square feet.
Yeah, yeah, I'm talking aboutyou and you won't go feed a
homeless person down in skid rowperiod.
You wouldn't even go to skidrow.
Give me a freaking break.
So I do think we have a goodcommunity.
And adam's point, it is biotite.
Yeah, yeah, I get so mad whenpeople say that about dallas so
(45:48):
you're tired.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
I'm just saying I feel it.
I mean I know I need, I knowI'm in texas and I I it's a
really great gay community I dolike it know it's different.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
I can't wait for you to go to other gay communities,
because New York is spread out alittle bit.
La is very close.
They have a strip like we do,right In West Hollywood they
have one, obviously, and anotherplace too, but not all of them
are like have a strip like we do, and I think that makes it
great because we're able to justkind of like whip around, but
(46:22):
yeah, and because we're able tojust kind of like whip around,
um, but yeah, and we're alsoreally close to each other,
because even if you live in thesuburbs, like ryan, I'm so far
away I did actually when I firstmoved there it's northwest
dallas, it's still I stayedwithin the 635 you live 19
(46:51):
minutes.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah, suburbs, I know , no, I, I I moved so when I
moved to dallas from california,but I started in, I know, and
now it goes a little bit out ofthe way.
But I'm really glad to havelike the house and I love
hosting and that's great.
You know, we've got a goodspace yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
It's really now that I'm there like it's not bad and
it's a good open space and we'vehad parties and parties.
So my apartment is like rightaround the corner from the strip
and I'm like, oh my God, whatdid I do?
Speaker 3 (47:15):
Like I live around the corner from the strip too.
I learned from the strip tooand I love it.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Well, you're a sly, I've spent too much time there
and I just want to mix it up.
I like it, but it can't be likeit's easy to jump on that.
It's a week every week.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I'm moved to Uptown by the Crescent where I live.
It's just a little bit higher.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
Just drive over Higher level we can hang out.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, but I'm just saying like, I'll show you my
neighborhood and I think you'lllike it because it's walkable,
like the Strip, but not lowerStringville.
You wouldn't want to live there, though.
Just saying For your next place, whenever that is Well.
Any closing thoughts?
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Matt on this Towards the end.
This is such a goodconversation.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
I mean it's so good.
We could literally do like an80 part series on this one, but
we're gonna leave this formatt's buck and we are super
thankful that he let us do that.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
I love, thank you.
At first I was like nervousabout wait.
How much do I want to talkabout?
How much do I want to like,expose, expose.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
And I'm like you know what if I'm doing it for the
right reason, like Wait untilyou sit at that bar one day and
you have you come up to you andsay I'm in the closet.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
And then he's going to be ready to tell his stories.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It'll happen.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I was in your place.
Yeah, I know what you're goingthrough.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
So I didn't do this to like be congratulated or, you
know, act like a hero oranything or courageous at all.
It's therapeutic for me to talkabout it.
Someone have a differentperspective, other than living a
(49:04):
lie with themselves and theirloved ones.
I just want to offer that Ithink it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
That's amazing, that's very brave and that is
such a great message that peopleneed to hear and thank you so
much for that, even if it's oneperson finds coffee with gays,
listens to this one episode.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Hopefully we have a few more than that watch out,
but we're not.
This is gonna read oh wait wait, dude, like ever.
Speaker 4 (49:28):
Does everybody know this podcast?
Speaker 2 (49:30):
we're so famous.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
I mean, we're really not but I will say, like there
are people that like come up tome that I'm like really you
listen to that.
I have this okay, and I'll getinto some arguments.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
I don't even know how they listen to it Really, you
get into some arguments.
No, you know me I love anargument, Especially a few
drinks in about 10 o'clock, oryou know like 3 pm on like a
Sunday.
Or random.
Yeah, sunday fun days areanother.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Again, few resources for anybody.
You know eFlag, I think, is anamazing one for families looking
for help, and you know newlyout gay people, and then also
your local LGBTQ center, if youhave one in a city, and then the
Trevor Project is great as well, and then RAINN, and we'll go
ahead and post all these in ouruh bios and all of our social
(50:24):
media accounts as well foranybody that was a victim of any
kind of csa.
So also, this has been such agreat, amazing episode.
Thank you, matt I meanliterally like thanks for having
me at some point.
Yeah, thank you, I'm honored tobe here.
Thank you.
Yeah, we just want to help youtell your story and help anybody
(50:44):
that you know can be helped bythis, because poof coming at, we
all came out at one point andit was hard, and yours is hard.
So congratulations and we lookforward to your future and
cheers to the future and yourhappiness.
Cheers, adam, smile.
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